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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: hartiberlin on April 13, 2006, 04:41:37 AM
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Hi All,
I had a few problems with my forum and the long first thread
about the Argentina magnet motor.
Now I have splitted the topic, so we can continue over here
in part2 and I also have updated the forum software to the
latest stable version.
I hope I can now post my new simulation pictures...
Regards, Stefan. (moderator)
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Here is the next simulation picture.
I am using now for the easiest setup all
equal square Neodym magnets also inside
the rotor 2 pieces !
With 3 lifted stator magnets at the same
time I am getting 6.6 Newtonmeters of torque !
That is quite amazing.
I am trying now to simulate the forces to change the stators
again back to the new gap configuration...
Stay tuned...
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Okay, now the attachments are also working again and also this forum should now
also work again with the FireFox browser... hope this helps....
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Hi Everyone,
Thanks to the patent information, I was able to create a precise 3D model of the Torbay motor! I also now know the basic dimensions for the rotor and stator magnets as well so now we can do simulations with the right size/shaped magnets. It looks like the only guesswork we may possibly have is working out the proper cut angles for the magnets. I will upload some screenshots of the 3D model I made in just a bit, I'm still putting together the assembly drawing.
God Bless,
Jason O
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With 3 lifted stator magnets at the same
time I am getting 6.6 Newtonmeters of torque !
That is quite amazing.
I've posted a setup like that already somewhere last week. If you take one more stator magnet away the torque gets even more!
Try it! Please post it here if it worth it....
Dutchy
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Hi Everyone,
Here are some of the screenshots of my 3D model. It's not finished yet but I'm done for now so here they are. I definitely learned a lot about this motor now from drawing this up and I now have a pretty good idea of how the mechanics work. I used a combination of the Patent drawings and the image of the sliced motor to see where everything goes. It is now obvious that he is using the rollers to lift the stator magnets and a metal flap on the top of the rotor disk to push them back down. I think he is using springs too although I'm not sure how exactly and I haven't drawn them up in the model yet. One thing to watch for, there are a few minor errors in some of the dimensions from the patent drawings but nothing critical to the functioning of the motor though.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Oh one more thing,
I didn't include the top metal piece that goes on the rotor to push the stator magnets back down. This piece appears in the cut-away drawing
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=866.0;attach=981;image)
but not as a part in the patent. I wonder if the use of springs could eliminate the need for this part?
God Bless,
Jason O
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Great pics Jason,
here is another forces versus torque simulation.
Sorry, the numbers are a bit hard to see, cause I
compressed the JPEG too strong and don?t have
the original anymore, but the very left X force is a
minus 31.xxxx value.
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There is a problem with this construction. The torque decrease it's value with turning of the rotor, and change it,s direction after 90 degrees.
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There is a problem with this construction. The torque decrease it's value with turning of the rotor, and change it,s direction after 90 degrees.
Only one thing...Do you have any clue how this motor works????
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Hi Jason and Tao,
what do you think what the rotor magnet is made of ?
Did Torbay just use a standard magnet for the rotor and did
file away the edges at both ends ?
Has anybody located such a rotor magnet already on the web ?
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@DarkLight
you have the magnets wrong polarized in your simulation !
The stator magnet at 11o?clock must be attractive not repelling !
All stator magnets must point with their northpole into the center axis.
Also the rotor magnet must be SN-SN, so be itsself in attraction.
Also at this postition the magnet at 5 o ?clock has moved back in line and
the one at 9 o?clock is already away....
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Hi Jason and Tao,
what do you think what the rotor magnet is made of ?
Did Torbay just use a standard magnet for the rotor and did
file away the edges at both ends ?
Has anybody located such a rotor magnet already on the web ?
Hi Stefan,
Torbay used ceramic magnets in his early prototypes and Neodymium in his later ones (more power). About the cuts in the magnets, In Torbays patent (English translation here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=928.0;attach=1197) that the cuts in the magnets determine the speed/direction of the motor. Also, he shows the exact dimensions of the magnets in his patent so to determine the optimum angle, we should focus on simulating the magnets as he has them so we can determine the best angle cuts in the magnets for the motor. I posted copies of the diagrams with the magnet dimensions from the patent below.
God Bless,
Jason O
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@DarkLight
here you can see, that you had the wrong magnet setup.
Here are the correct simulations for this case which still shows
still good negative torque values.
But anyway, this way the gap is not setup, so
there is always around 6.6 Newtonmeter torque,
when the gap always remains at 90 degrees to the rotor.
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Okay, here is a simulation without any rotor
at all.You can see, that it has almost a magnet field like
a bar magnet.
The rotor magnet then wants to align to this stator field,
but is not allowed, because always the gap is also moved,
so that the gap is always at 90 degrees to the rotor magnet,
where it has the most torque.
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I was too tired this night to comment the
simulation from:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,933.msg6699.html#msg6699
There I tried to see, how big the forces are that are occuring,
when the stator magnet at 5 o?clock is moving towards the
stator line and when the stator magnet at 9 o?clock is moving away and
is widening the gap there.
The curious result is, that you get a supporting force of about 31 Newton
to move the 9 o?clock magnet away, which I would not have expected.
But otherwise you have to the push the 5 o?clock real hard
with the vectorsum from 52 and 117 Newton into the line again.
Now the energy it takes is Force times distance, so I would
have to make several small step movements of these stator
magnets to see, how the forces are changing via the distance.
This would be a perfect application for the LUA scripting,
but I have not yet learned this and in this moment I also
have no time to learn it..
So maybe somebody with LUA knowledge can do this.
Regards, Stefan.
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Here is another simulation picture.
If you put the stator magnet back to the line
again after the rotor magnet has passed, it needs
less force to pull back the stator magnet into the stator line.
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Hi Tao,
thanks for your last simulation pics.
Why is the torque so much bigger, when the
rotor magnet goes a bit into the gap ?
It jumps from around 2 Newtonmeters to around 20 Newtonmeters,
but why ?
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Hi Tao and ALL,
I guess we can get a lot more torque, if we
use several moving gaps !
Like the difference between a 2 pole or 4 pole
motor, we will have more torque, if we have 2 moving gaps
instead of one moving gap.
Maybe we can use 2 gaps at 180 degrees apart or 4 gaps at 90
degrees apart.
Then of course we would also need more stator magnets, but as the rotor
seems to produce more torque, when it comes into the gap, more gaps
can have a positive effect onto the torque.
I will try it in a simulation now.
Regards, Stefan.
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Hi Tao,
maybe you get such a strong 20 Nm torque, cause you used
these many Neodym vectors on the rotor part ?
Maybe they add up in the field strength ?
Tao,
maybe use a few less neodym vectors and see, if the
torque will also go down at the same position.
Thanks.
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It is already a bit late and my brain is not working anymore....
How can we calculate the needed force (or torque) onto the rotor
to be a bit higher than the energy needed to press the stator magnets
back into the stator line ?
Okay, Power is = torque x 2 x pi x frequency= Force x radiusdistance x omega
So energy is Power devided by time,
so how can we calculate the energy needed for the rotor to press down
the stator magnet back into the line ?
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Tao, I tried to remove a few vectors from your FEMM files and
it stays at 20 Nm, so that is pretty good !
It is probably this big, due to the bigger diameter in your setup !
This will automatically generate more torque !
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You know that is an insanely huge amount of torque you are getting there! :o (almost 15 ft-lbs for us non SI people) What size magnets are used in the simulation?? It may be a good idea to use realistic dimensions for the magnets so we can get more realistic data.
God Bless,
Jason O
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The biggest question now is, if the torque times omega divided by time= energy from the
rotor is enough to move all the stator magnets up and down again and how much
energy is then left to drive a generator....
How can we calculate that from the simulation torque and forces output ?
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I still think the torques in each direction will cancel exactly, and the thing is a closed conservative system- just as it appears to be.
(I don't want you to fail, I'd like to be proven wrong...)
Anyway, I have still been thinking about this idea and I came up with a simple and novel improvement to it. At least I think it would be an improvement.
I would call this the zipper variant. Instead of all the magnets going up, half of them go up, and half of them go down, alternating.
v^v^v^v^v^
Normally the magnets oppose each other 'en passant' as the previous one lowers and the next one rises. In this version, you have one magnet going
down toward the base and the next magnet going up toward the base- then that magnet going up toward the base, and the next one going
up away from the base. The field basically looks the same to the rotor, but the stators are doing a better job of staying out of each other's way.
If that's not clear, I can draw an animation of this...
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I already explained exactly how to implement a 0 force situation, meaning 0 force needed to lower and lift the stators. My COMPLETE explaination is on the last thread and it outlines exactly how this is done. It has to do with having 2-3 stators ALWAYS lifted.
Tao
How much of a distance magnets in your design should go up? In the femm simulations they are not even there. If they have to move a little then I agree about the Zero Force. but then simulations are not so true. If more apart, then 0 force may not be there at all.
Here is the explanation:
while magnet is going up it is leaving field of lower magnet next to it. This field becomes weaker as the magnet moves up. Next our moving magnet is trying to enter the field of the magnet which was lifted before. That field is starting to be more and more stronger while magnet is moving up. So where is that zero force? Somwhere in between, but not at the high point. ;)
I have an improvement aready tested. and it works, but I've been told to shut up because you are trying to replicate original design 8)
Geo
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Hi Tao,
if you do a simulation of the forces onto the already inline stators,
you see, that they have a very different forces around the stator circle !
For instance do a FEMM simulation of the last sequence you posted and
mark one stator magnet after the other and see, what forces pull on them,
although 2 or 3 stator magnets are lifted !
The last one at the right side at around 5 o clock feels
a very big force from the rotor magnet, although there is a gap
right beside it, so I don?t know.... The same force you would
have to apply, when you want to press this stator part back into the circle !
Hmm.... let me know what you thing,...when I remember correctly
it had over 320 Newton in one direction ! That is a lot of force on it !
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Tao.
'I already explained exactly how to implement a 0 force situation.
- There is not '0 force situation'. I made the simulation model (see attached) and it clearly shows that 'ALWAYS lifted stator' is under forces from both sides of lifting arms and it always requires power to lower any lifted arms.
'So, you see that the lowering and lifting stator DON'T INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER..
- No, but they do with already lowered ones, and it requires power to do it.
This concept of commutation of field well known and still not solved practically (see attached - one of my models to operate this concept with a solenoid, not a selfrunner).
Hope you can solve it.
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@Light
Please tell us , how your
argent.jpg
reacte and behaves !
Maybe you can post a short video playing
with it and speaking with it, what you just do and
why it does not work yet ?
Many thanks.
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I think the femm sims are all going to be off. the magnetic forces in this device are 3 demensional. (i know already been said) on top of that there are hundreds of things not thought of in all these sims. though this device is mechanically simple it is magnetically complicated. an actual replica and physical simulations are the only present way to show the forces on this motor.
a sample of some un figured problems in torque.
mechanical drag and friction - bearings, pins, shock, vibrations, air (i recomend enclosing device in a vacuum tight case after
completing and including stabalizers to final product)
temerature differances/ problems - friction of bearings and cap on rotor creates heat... heat transfer to rotor magnets, high friction area around stator arm pins create heat, environmental temperatures. (all these depend on heatsinc and precautions taken)
size and distance - the magnets feild reaches a peak stregnth at the center of its feilds (inside the curve) and placing the magnets closer or farther from the rotor is going to effect things as well as the size and quality of the magnets you use.
effects of different materials used in the building of the device - any material that reacts with magnets is going to effect the device
i believe this to be a high yield device, and femm helps to create a higher yeild through different setups, but any sim provided in this case is not going to be acurate without some aditional calculation. these femm sims are theoretical in nature, but are still very usefull in finding better setups. (exp. you say that bar magnets will create more torque/reaction than the curve/half moon magnet torbay used.... ) this is good info.
thanks for your ideas....... this is just my oppinion.... so dont bite my head off.... i know i am wrong on somethings.... just let me know where and how.....
thanks,
danny
p.s. i say this only becuase everyone is so obsessed with the femm sims that i think it is taking away from the rest of the project...
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Hi All,
I am having again some problems with the forum software,
so that it does not display this topic from the beginning.
If you for instance go to:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,933.0.html
it will not display the page...
I have already tried to clean and clear the database,
but in this moment I don?t know, what is going on.
Please let me know, if you can access this upper URL page.
Maybe the SQL database has some problems.
I am looking now for a fix...
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I found the error, it seems the forum software does not like
to enable the picture resizing, so all posts must now
be enabled with the original resolution picture size shown
and not with a thumbnail !
This seems to be still a bug of the forum software.
Okay, I have now again enabled fullsize picture under the posting,
so the page needs to load longer, but will instantly show the big pictures.
Thus I have reduced the postings per page to 5 postings, so the page does
not load too long.
Regards, Stefan. (moderator)
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"Please tell us , how your argent.jpg reacte and behaves !".
- Have not much to say yet, so far nothing special, this is just a first step to see the picture of forces. Everything works like Tao says - he's got the concept right, but obviously, there's no '0' forces so far. I believe there's something else inside to make commutation right. I'll post progress and changes.
Yes, Tao, they are too far of each others, did it purposely to see interaction. Do you think needda metal core to amplify the gap, make movement smooth?
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Wowsers...hello again everyone, I'm back from my week away working...what a thread(s) this turned out to be, and a lot of surprises!
I am still catching up on the thread, but Torbays patent looks just like I thought , and strikingly similar to my details, so I have a prototype very close...hope to do a few modifications Saturday.
Will be on the forums a while catching up...does anyone have a close prototype yet?
JayBird
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Hello, first post here, and I would like to thank you guys for the play/work being done - I especially appreciated the patent pdf with dimensions!
I have some 12800 gauss NdFeB magnets (could not find larger) that I will be using for a planned prototype.
I wanted to add my enthusiasm and gratitude (see above) and I also wanted to add a fact/factor for your consideration.
I have worked with large magnetic fields (a magnetic resonance imaging machine) and I have experienced the paramagnetic properties of aluminum. While magnetic materials will be attracted to the field, bouncing and causing great damage, a paramagnetic material, like aluminum, is not attracted (well slightly) but it does focus/gather/conduct the magnetic field. So if you take a sheet of aluminum and try and move it (perpendicular to the lines of force) through a strong magnetic field you will encounter resistance. I assume this is a variable you might consider in simulation of the vectors and accurate replication?
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http://www.asalup.org/downloads/patente.pdf
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Hi everybody,
Do you know if this torbay machine works or not ?
YES or NO ?
Is it really an overunity machine ? Has anybody already succeeded in building the same one and tried it ?
Thanks
Bye
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We ars still waiting for the "lazy" Argentina guys, who have seen
the video of Torbay to send us a copy.....;(
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I didn't see this posted elsewhere - apologies if it's a dup.
The attached (whilst not how Torbay specifies his setup) may help create a similar device - using mechanical force only for actuation.
Thoughts?
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There was a previous post asking how much a magnet must be removed from the stator arm ring to cause the rotor to have significant reaction. I have replicatied this motor minus the rotor cap to raise and lower the stator arms (my rotor spins on a hard drive motor mounted in the middle of the stator arms). It seems to be that one arm of the stator must be lifted atleast one magnet width above the stator arms beside it to get this reaction, and it a very strong reaction, much like a reaction to a horeshoe magent. My replication consists of 8 stator arms and 5 magnets north to south on the rotor. More to come as I create the rotor cap for lifting and replacing the stators to their initial position. sorry i cant post pics, the wife took the camera to cali for a wedding.
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this is the best i can do right now...with a webcam
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short video of reaction to the movement stator
a few messages ahead... here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,933.msg6841.html#msg6841
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one last picture of the rotor in a position,so as not to kill the like magnets of north to north fields.
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i would appreciate any feedback...as i am considering the rotor function to this motor
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@ Stefan,
if you can reduce the size of the "field of reaction" video, it would be of great thanx (so i wouldnt take up needed bandwitdth). 2.5 megs is too much for this particular idea.
if you could direcct me the way to minimize these files i would be in your debt. jhtpohl@yahoo.com thank you for a forum that we can discuss these ideas.
Jason Pohl
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Hi:
Here you have a compressed version of the video (it is encoded with Xvid, but DivX should be able to handle it).
Hope this helps
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That pretty much describes my small prototype.. i'm still trying to get a camera to show it to you guys.. mine has 10 stator lifting arms and i'm using 1/8 by 1/8 neos.. It behaves just like Nastrands.. when i put one arm down it moves the rotor CCW 2-3 arms. My rotor does not have a lifting wheel either.
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is the above video playing for others that have downloaded it.....it doesnt seem to be playing for me
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Yes it works.
I use BS player or mediaplayer classic.
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In my replication of torbay's motor there is no problem with "lever up", but it seems to very hard put magnet back - the current rotor segment and nearby stator magnets repulse "flying" magent. In result all three stator magnets (according to torbay's patent picture) flying and cycle is over. :(
p.s. sorry for my english
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The principle of Torbay motor is the same as that of asynchron electro motor. There is a rotating stator magnetic field (here achieved by moving the stator magnets up and down while the rotor is turning) and rotor that follows this rotating stator field. The construction has great torque (about 7 Nm with bar rotor magnet and half of stator magnets moved up) , but it has very low turning speed because of moving stator magnets up and down. Let the motor turns with 600 rpm only. This is low speed. Even lower than that of typical electro motor (1500 to 3000 rpm). But even with that low rpm we have to move up and down each of stator magnets 10 times per second!
To do that we must move stator magnets with very big acceleration, because we have to put them up and then down in a 1/20 of a second!
That requires great force.
What is the net power of a motor with torque M = 7 Nm that turns with n = 600 rpm
N = F*V = M * w = M*2*PI*n/60
N = 7*2*3.14*600/60 = 439.8 W
Even with that great torque of 7 Nm motor will have low power because of it's low rpm.
And what about amortisation of elevation ramps for stator magnets, and for other elements that have to move at 30 , 40 mm in less than 1/20 of a second?
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Very well thought,Darklight !
Why do the Lutec-company-members need so much time(6 years+X),
for a "only" 1KW-plant ?
Please remark also the material input !
Sincerely
de Lanca
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DarkLight,
439 Watts would power my laptop, coffepot, and several fluorescent lamps. I don't need much more to make me happy.
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400-600RPM with a 36" or so rotor with more magents would put out a LOT more power ;) Just use it on a charge controller for a battery bank and run everything off of an inverter also connected to the battery bank. Someone get something out I can easily understand and I'll look into building something with my 24 1.5"x1"x0.25" N48 magnets.
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One of the problems with this design is that the stator magnets will still find rest at mid point of the rise. Like was stated above it's easy to raise them, but how do you put them back down? If this motor does indeed rotate as RPM increases the stator will float at mid point and you will loose torque. If more force is needed to put the stator back in position for next revolution I'm afraid our end result might be Zero work.
It's worth a try. I'll build one too for fun. I was trying something simular with hinges, but it found rest. Perhaps springs or small magnets could speed the rise and fall of the stator. Or maybe another cam that forces it back down. You could create another level and stack the machine so that the upper level pushed the stator back in place.
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Hi Madmaxx,
The last method you mentioned is pretty much what Torbay did with his motor. It is really quite simple. If you look at the cutaway view of the motor, you can clearly see (and it's labeled) a piece of bent metal sticking out on the left side of the rotor disk which acts like a ramp and eases the stators back down into position as it slides over the top of them. This is perhaps the simplest way and will prevent the need for lots of extra mechanical pieces.
The basic breakdown is this, there are a set of rollers on the underside of the rotor which roll on ramps underneath each stator to lift them up. As we saw in Nastrand2000?s video, the stators will automatically push each other up in a sort of bubble-like way as one stator is lifted. The metal piece on the rotor would ease the stators back down again as the disk goes. But it shouldn't take much energy to do this because in effect, we are not really forcing the stator back down at all; we are just causing the bubble of lifted stator magnets to move around the stator ring. So in a way, pushing one stator down actually helps to lift the next stator.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Here's a mockup. But there's not enough torque to lift anything. It will turn if you lift ach stator arm.
Sugestions? I know it doesn't have rollers, but even if it did there's not enough torque.
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Hi.
I think that the diameter of rotor should be more great.
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That rotor looks REALLY far away from the other magnets.
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madmaxx,
Magnets of rotor should be bigger, better if same as stator magnets. Remember patent - 3 segments of a stator have a same rotor segment size. But in your prototype size of rotor segments is very small. In result, every stator magnet repulse only front side of a rotor magnet, but attract (or repulse in wrong direction) left-right sides, and same sides of nearby rotor magnets. Make rotor bigger, use same magnets as in stator, orient every as others, place rotor magnets closer to simulate circle magnet with solid repulse surface. When all stator magnets down, rotor should rotate easily, becouse all repulse forces in balance, but if one magnet levered - your fingers fiil the torque near gap. But problem is to put down the flying magnet, becouse 3 forces repulse it - one from rotor, two from nearby stator magnet. It seem that sum of these 3 forces are same which rotate rotor to gap. I'm afraid that metal arm above rollers in torbay's demonstration model can't overcome these repulse forces. Where the video of working model? I'm begin to doubt on this matter.
Here's a mockup. But there's not enough torque to lift anything. It will turn if you lift ach stator arm.
Sugestions? I know it doesn't have rollers, but even if it did there's not enough torque.
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Thank you so much for the suggestions. I agree that the stator needs to move out to reduce the interaction. Also the rotor needs to increase in size to meet the stator much closer. It's just a mock up made of a CDROM spindle and PVC pipe. If we can get one working with this junk then all would benifit.
I need to earn a living now. So when I get time to make the revisions I'll repost a photo. Perhaps my failures will help others.
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madmaxx,
But problem is to put down the flying magnet, becouse 3 forces repulse it - one from rotor, two from nearby stator magnet. It seem that sum of these 3 forces are same which rotate rotor to gap. I'm afraid that metal arm above rollers in torbay's demonstration model can't overcome these repulse forces.
Here's a mockup. But there's not enough torque to lift anything. It will turn if you lift ach stator arm.
Sugestions? I know it doesn't have rollers, but even if it did there's not enough torque.
Exactly! Putting down the the stator is problem. If you were to add force to push it down then it would require more force to lift. The sheilding was to reduce interaction of the stator. Didn't seem to help at all. By moving out this reduces the interaction but makes a larger machine.
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Hello all
Yesterday I read the script of the patent from Torbay.
Did you ever read a translation of it? Well - I will try to translate you some important thing that might be useful for you.
Page No. 1 Description of the invention
...movimiento continuo ... aprovechando la propiedad de rechazo de polos iguales y la desviacion de lineas de fuerza magnetica mediante cortes en los imanes.
...continuely movement ... by using the repulsion of equal poles AND by deflection of magnetic field lines. The deflection is created by the cutoffs of the magnets.
Page No. 5
Forma the llevarlo a cabo ----- How to realize or how to setup
.... Los angulos de cortes (alfa) en los imanes de los modulos elevantes podran ser variados segun convenga para controlar aceleracion fricction magnetica y velocidad. A saber que a medida que aumentamos (alfa) la friccion magnetica sera mayor la acelaracion inicial sera mayor y la velocidad constante sera menor, mientras que si alfa disminuye la aceleracion inicial sera menor y la velocidad constante sera mayor.
Los angulos de corte (beta) y ubicacion de estos en los imanes del brazo rotor permitira controlar sentido de giro. ....
...The angles (alpha) of the cutoffs of the magnets in the stator modules can be setup for your application, controlling acelaration, magnetic friction and speed.
By increasing (alpha) the magnetic friction and the aceleration will increase and the final speed will decrease. On the other side if we decrease (alpha), the aceleration and the final speed will increase.
( And now a very important part!!!)
The angles (beta) of the cutoffs and the position of them in the rotormagnet will allow you to change the turn direccion. ...
What I read of this, is that the angle (alpha) of the cutoffs of the statormagnets is essetial for this kind of motor. But the angle (beta) makes no sense for me as long as they where equal on both sides.
My englisch is not very well and it takes one and a half hour to translate this, so its very difficult for me.
If you want me to translate more of the patent it would be easier for me to translate it to german and send it to Stefan hoping that he can translate it to english, perhaps compressing the sense oft it.
By the way: The piece that appears in the cut-away drawing called "sist. de descenso controlado" means "system for controlled pushdown"
I hope this are usefull informations for U.
By
2Tiger
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I'm excited about this thread. I was wondering if you have seen the Hummingbird motor and the Sundance generator? Here's the link:
http://www.befreetech.com/techpage.htm
Tell me what you think.
slucas
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@2Tiger,
if you would post it in German,
when I get some free time I will make a good english translation.
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dear slucas,
I think the hummingbird and sundance is a huge crock of rubbish. Have a good read...full of conspiracy theroy.
I was wondering how all the Torbay prototype builders were going....seems to have gone quiet...has anyone heard from anyone in Argentina recently???
Kind regards Mark
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I think the hummingbird and sundance is a huge crock of rubbish. Have a good read...full of conspiracy theroy.
Video is childish, but perfectly ok. Same ideas like with all of us here in the forum. Regardless of conspiracy theories.
http://www.befreetech.com/media/case.ram
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After some tests in the first (rough) prototype I guest there are two ways to start a cycle: lifting a stator or pushing down a stator (although both actions will be done, only one is the main drive in a initial status and its synchronism will determine all future actions, I guest. Consider the initial action as the initial change from a stable status that causes a cycle that doesn?t stop). The first (lifting a stator) is very well shown in Nastrand2000 video and it looks like the method of original Torbay patent. I found some difficulties to implement it (cover tap mechanic fine adjustment and small friction mechanism for instance) and the initial torque is small (and it needs a small force to create it because both variables are linked). The second one generates a large torque and it does not require a special mechanic care but requires a large and synchronized force for pushing down (Nastrand, try to hold the rotor just a little bit after the last lifted stator and push down it and then release the rotor. You will see a strong torque that ?passes? the next expected start point cycle, probably doing a completed turn. This energy excess to complete the cycle could be adjusted to force the next cycle).
In other words, there could be two models: a ?permanent? (or near to DC) torque status (I don?t think so but any experiment or simulations are welcome) or cycles of torque that have parameters fixed by the initial status and the first imbalance.
Then, my second prototype will be oriented to measure both status without some elements (cover tap for instance) using other controlled methods for pushing and lifting. I expect some results in a week.
Regards
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Hi All,
here are 2 new pictures I received from someone I know, who knows
Torbay.
Here you can see the underside of the rotor and the second pic shows
the total view of his first prototype with the big plexiglas gear wheel and
the small generator at the backside with a small gear wheel, so
the rotor only rotates at 60 to 100 rpm I was told and this is
upconverted to faster speed at the generator.
More news to come soon....
Regards, Stefan.
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Nice pictures. Looks pretty basic. With 60 RPM, how much torque would it need to turn a 1930 watt alternator load? Quite a bit I would think...
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If this prototype puts out 10 Watts you can be lucky !
Look at the small DC motor probably working as a generator at the right side
in the back !
This is probably the first small prototype.
The claimed about 2000 Watts would need a much bigger unit !
From the rotor underside you can see, how it works.
The stators are almost 300 degrees pressed down and then
there is a cut into the underside, so the stator at this position can jump up and
then a triangular slope, where the stators are pressed down again !
So it is really what we already have simulated over here.
Also you can see quite clearly the rotor magnet that it is
just "C" shaped one as was indicated inside the patent.
Now the question is, if the ends of the "c" shape plays really such an important role
where the angle is filed off...
I guess we have to run a fewmore simulations to see, what is going on,
when we put different angles at the end of the "C" shape rotor magnets...
Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Typos in this posting now removed...
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The first picture looks like it was taken from a video since it shows motion signs in torbays hands... I wonder if we can get the video somewhere....
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Not yet, I was told, that we have to wait for the video some more time and Torbay
did not know, that his AVI clips were removed from the WEB and wants to reinstall
them soon.
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did you find torbay, finally? ??? did you talk to him???
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Not me, a friend.
Next week will probably bring much more infos.
Stay tuned.
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The recent rotor image revealed the stator magnets are incrementally pushed back inline with the rotor magnet. Thus the stator magnets form a 'cork screw'. Note each stator magnet has the same relative postion to another except for when the stator magnet is pushed up to form the gap. Therefore this is the only position where energy is required - apart from frictional losses. Unfortunetly FEMM can't simulate these forces.
Since the stator magnets are positioned in a 'cork screw' the 40 MGOe (energy product) in each stator magnet is not necessarily available to act on the rotor. This is reasoned by the fact that we assume a lifted stator magnet contributes zero force - probably not the case. The attached simulation has the stator magnets MGOe values incrementally reduced from 40 MGOe to 3.3 MGOe (fully lifted magnet) The torque is still 3 Nm at the position where the following stator magnet is about to be lifted. In the previous 15? of movement the torque was greater than 1.5 Nm. Therefore the motor is a self runner if the lifting of the stator magnet is <3 Nm.
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sorry if the question is to :'( but, the are is any material capable to stop or reflect the magnetics lines of force. ???
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did anybody known where a can get a 3d design of torbay patent. I'm looking to reproduce the original design but I had some problens traying to understand the mechanics.
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Hi all:
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering pinky?"......guys is my first post though I've known about you Stefan for a long while trough other forums like Hameltech. So I congratulate you on your record keeping abilities and efforts for all this very inspiring and useful theories.
So we have a selfrunner ,but I'm not quite sure about selling power back to the electrical companies here in the USA.
is that possible ,would they allow it??....I would build a generator in my apt. and not let them know. so this Megapower companies would not control the proliferation of free energy .What's your take at it??
Imagine cops searching in our cars now for hidden free energy generators arguing is too much freedom in a terrorism fear ridden society, and they deciding the generators are not safe for "civilian" use . Gas is up to the roof , and shouldn't be that way!! a war has been fought and lots of lives lost in the name of oil , was it worth it? . Thank god for the free energy device if it really works.
Can somebody tell me:
in the stator (180 degree angled magnet) all the side view is North pole?? ,
in any case a ceramic donut magnet from speakers cut in half would do the trick??. I looked around but I think is not even mentioned in the patent. Just want to make sure despite the great job made by Jason and Tao, I want to make one as accurate as possible to post results. Best regards.
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Maran:
In page 4 reply 15 Tao explains beautifully the mechanics of the device.
I recognize his enviable clarity of mind despite the fact that he translated from spanish. I speak spanish and the simply brilliant arrangement to me was difficult to understand though I have my own idea for a motor based in something I discovered and I would like to talk about.
Whish I could shared it, but don't know how 'cause is not patented yet but I discovered how to spin a magnet 360 without lock up. The geometry is complicated and critical so for 3 years I've been trying to imagine an arrangement mechanically that is, which allow me to use the basic principle, the only thing I can tell you is that Hamel is right when he talks about weight into speed.
But this morning I've found how! finally I did walk around my apt in circles(honoring this motors way of motion?) out of excitement and talking to myself(Which I don't do often believe me) How could it escaped for such a long time? and so forth those where the questions....apparently simple ,you would agree by my ramblings that it is not ,right??.
But what I can tell you is that there are many arrangements still to be found, like many will see from the Torvay's motor.
Commercially speaking I don't think it would be profitable unless really protected by intenational laws but if its easily made as we pretended to be then is all good but no one would be a trillionare any time soon what do you think??.Best Regards
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I'M STILL WITHOUT ANY IDEA HOW TO MAKE THE MODEL, I SEE TAO'S DESCRIPTION BUT TO MAKE THE SAME PIECES WITHOUT ANY VARIATION I NEED TO SEE SOME.
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Just a little about odd shaped magnets.... some time ago I needed an odd shaped magnet for some project and became frustrated in trying to grind one out... I smashed some ceramic magnets into little peices with a hammer under a towel.. I made a mold out of some thin plastic to the shape I needed. Stuffed all these tiny bits of magnets in the mold and held a super strong magnet next to the mold were I needed the pole to be, if you hold a negative pole to a certain side you get a Positive pole...All the little peices, which are separate magnets, will line themselves up perfect to produce a magnet shaped the way you want it with the poles were you want them... now to hold them in place.. super glue... it works ..I have done it..Now as far as this (Magnet Motor from Argintina)... Still watching this.. I will try a few things and see.. I have a problem with pushing a magnet from a attraction force into a repulsive one... I have not read all the post on this motor so I might be repeating some of the same questions, does the outside magnets need to be odd or even in number? How many? I have seen pictures with 7 and more. Thanks
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@MARAN
Have a look over here:
http://overunity.com/torbay/
There you can see these 2 animated GIF files that show you,
how the motor works.
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Hello friends.
Sorry for my english.
I have tried to arm the Torbay's motor.
I used magnet of hard disk cut in halves and wood. The rotor is composed of a motor of hard disk and a cd.
The rotor has only one magnet, I tried to put more than one but didn?t work.
At the moment, the rotor move when lifting an stator arm, but it doesn't have enough power to make that the ramp lifts the following arm.
Also, the arm that faces to the rotor magnet remains lifted.
Then I will try to put a more potent magnet in the rotor and to try to reduce the friction of the ramp that lifts the arms.
Please see the images attached.
Some idea?
Thank you very much.
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Hi Cesarc,
There are three big problems I see in your design. The first thing is that your stator magnets are spaced too far apart. You need to minimize the gaps between them as much as possible. The closer you can get the magnets, the more concentrated the overall field will be and the more torque the rotor will experience. The second thing I see wrong with the design is the size of the rotor magnet. If you check out Torbay's patent, he used a 180 degree arc magnet for the rotor disk. So you will also need to make the rotor magnet longer (rounder) so that it can interact with more of the field from the stator magnets. That will also help to increase torque as well. Finally, you need to either use longer stator magnets or put pieces of metal on the back of them to concentrate the north-pole field and move the opposing field farther away. Using bar magnets would be ideal here but simply sticking a piece of steel on the back will help.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Thank you Jason
I will follow your suggestions and I will show the results then.
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Hi Cesarc,
Besides what Jason already mentioned, I think there is one other serious problem in your model. You said that the rotor lacked enough power to overcome the ramp. Looking at the steep pitch of your ramp, I'm not surprised. From your photos, the ramp looks like it has about 45 degrees. In terms of pitch, this translates to 1 in 1 (vertical to horizontall).
The ramp shown in Torbay's patent has a pitch of 8 in 40, or 1 in 5, which translates to 9 degrees. That is a much flatter ramp, presenting considerably less challenge to the rotor.
Good luck,
Cisco
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Thank you Cisco.
I will try to reduce the angle of the ramp :)
Thanks very much.
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It has taken me a 2 weeks of lunch times to get thru this exciting string.
Hi Cesarc,
Another problem might be the hard drive magnets you are using might be multi-pole thus not giving you a true N or S pole on one side.
As far as a shaped magnet for the rotor simply create the shape you want from steel and put the pole of the magnet against the inside of the shaped part. The field will distribute along the face of the shaped part and the other end of the magenet will not be near the perifery of the rotor diameter. You can not use multipole magenets for this idea at all.
For All,
Who cares about materials, speeds etc at the prototype level. When this device is truly made to turn on its own all that stuff can be refined and power will be extracted. We must get it to be self sustanining and the tweeking will begin.
Mark
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Thanks Mark.
?does the metal to make the shape have to be steel or can be any other metal?
Thank you.
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Hi Cesarc
The shape should be steel or iron
I hope you can see the atacment If not I will try something else tomorrow.
Good luck
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did somebody try to draw on femm program a circle iron core outside the stator?????
I will appreciate if somebody post the graphics.
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Thanks Mark,
I saw tha attachment. It is very clear.
Thank you.
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Hi! my name is Luis
I m working we Mr Torbay in Argentina, some bady saw the information in the chart, and they gave te home page, I sign, and readdy to speak we any one, but muy Inglish is not very good. but I tried the gave alls information you need.
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Hi! my name is Luis
I m working we Mr Torbay in Argentina, some bady saw the information in the chart, and they gave te home page, I sign, and readdy to speak we any one, but muy Inglish is not very good. but I tried the gave alls information you need.
Hi Luis,
Is that right, you are working together with Mr. Torbay ?
We are trying to replicate the 'transgenerador magnetico' but have had no success yet. Could you send us some detail information on the setup (drawings, magnet layout, etc.) ?
Thanks in advance for all the information you have to share with the world ...
Magnetizer
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Yes Luis, it would be nice from you if you could share to this forum your knowledge of Mr Torbays' Motor.
Thank You!
Joe
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Hola Luis:
Supongo que pod?s escribir es espa?ol y alguno de nosotros puede traducirlo al ingl?s.
?Cu?l es tu relaci?n con Torbay y en que estado se encuentra el transgenerador magn?tico en este momento?
Gracias.
Hi Luis:
I guess you can post in spanish and any of us can translate it to english.
What is the relation between you and Torbay and in wath state is the magnetic transgenerator in this moment.
Thanks.
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Luis Querido. Puede usted por favor pedir a Sr. Torbay el v?deo? Puede usted por favor preguntarle, si ?l puede poner el v?deo de AVI otra vez en l?nea? Deseamos ver un v?deo del motor corriente.
Muchas gracias. Recuerdos, Stefan Hartmann.
P.S:This is an online translation via babelfish.altavista.com
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Hola Luis,
Si tienes una copia del dibujos mec?nicos, me gustar?a convertirlos a dibujos de 3D AutoCAD para que gente con capacidad en potencia de CNC puede construir prototipos.
?Salud!
Jason O
Hi Luis,
If you happen to have any printed blueprints of the design, I would be happy to convert them to 3D AutoCAD parts so that people with CNC capability can machine the pieces.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Wow we might have found the missing link. I hope Luis posts soon.
Luis tenga confianza y por favor escribanos sobre el projecto en tema. Muchas gracias!
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many wire models (3d modeling) were shown on the argentina site..... if we could get a copy of those I think all problems would be solved! good to hear from somebody who knows mr torbay. :)
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Hi All,
New to this forum, been reading up on this thread, very, very exciting.
Some questions if you guys don't mind. Where's the balancing for the rotor? What about the wear & tear of the mechanical system? This thing is going what? 100 rpm? And the lifting of the stator, approx. 1.5 times per second? How long can this motor go on running if it works?
Just my 2 cents.
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Hi All,
New to this forum, been reading up on this thread, very, very exciting.
Some questions if you guys don't mind. Where's the balancing for the rotor? What about the wear & tear of the mechanical system? This thing is going what? 100 rpm? And the lifting of the stator, approx. 1.5 times per second? How long can this motor go on running if it works?
Just my 2 cents.
Good questions. All we can say for sure is that according to the news articles, Torbay has one that has been running for over a year now so we are at least guarnteed it will work for that long. As for the balencing of the rotor. That's as simple as adding a counterweight. However, it shouln't be a problem since the magnetic fields from the stators are keeping it centered for the most part. Also, since the rotor is tall, putting a long shaft through it will keep it from wobbling too much as it is moving; and since the motor runs at low RPMs, this shouldn't be a big issue.
God Bless,
Jason O
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To give an "published"example about demagnetiztion:
The S.E.A.R.L.-generator,demagnetization and magnets change after 60.000 KWH work.
How many Kg did he used ?
We should not see demagnetization as physical problem,it is only a cost-factor !
(With the hope that China will not abuse their Neodym-quasi-monopol(-e))
Telling about 1 year permanent-work,with permanent 2,5 KW output ?
Probably Mr."Luis" or Mr.Torbay directly will give the answer !
Sincerely
de Lanca
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Still working on my model. I found that the stator magents should be spaced far enough apart so as not to interact. The stator magnets need to be the same thickness as the rotor. If your using .5" thick block then the rotor should be .5", now you only have to lift .5" to get the rotation. I don't think the rotor should be 180 degrees. More like 120 so you only have a N/S pole plus little more on each end to get close to next stator lift position. I used a doughnut magnet and cut it down with a tile saw. When I lift one stator it rotates to the next and leaves the previous in the up position. Now when you lift next stator the rotor moves again and pulls down the previous stator. The cycle then repeats. It seems it takes 3 stator positions for this interaction to work. There are 2 pulling so there should be enough force to lift the one that releases the lock and creates rotation. I'll be building the lifters soon. Perhaps I'll get a working model.
Could it be this simple?
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Luis:
Felicitaciones y gracias por ofrecer su ayuda y la del senor Torbay
Como es posible obtener 2.5 kilowats de este motor?
Es decir de que tamano deberia ser , o potencia magnetica ?
Cuantas revoluciones por minuto se pueden esperar maximo de este tipo de motor?.
Les deseo lo mejor. Diego
Luis: Congratulations and thanks to offer your aid and the one of Mr.Torbay.
out pf this motor how is it possible to obtain 2.5 watts?
Say what size it should be or magnetic power?
How many rpm can be expected at the most, out of this type of motor?.
I wish you the best .Diego
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All you trying with the prototype, model or whatever, I think there's something very important missing from the patent that we might have overlook. We would need to add in a heavy flywheel. Just my view, may be wrong.
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You only need a couter balance for the rotor magnet. This is not like an overbalanced wheel. At this point I think the builders here are just just trying to replicate with simple prototypes. Mine is made from PVC and other junk from my scrap boxes. As long as it has enough tourque to lift the stator with the ramp, it will continue rotation. If one can achieve this then you can place an induction coil above the rotor to generate electric. From that point we refine and improve to build more effecient and higher power systems.
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No sucess. Not enough torque to lift stator. Here's photo. Ideas?
Will rotate when one is lifted by hand. The rotation will not lift the next stator. The stator to be lifted is attracting and this force cancels out the next pull and the previous push.
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Hi Madmaxx,
Which way are the stator and rotor magnets polarized? If those are just standard ceramics that are magnetized through the thickness, then it will definately not work the way you have it. Those magnets need to be magnetized through the length so that the north pole faces the rotor directly. Otherwise the field will not be dense enough to give you the needed torque.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi Madmaxx,
Which way are the stator and rotor magnets polarized? If those are just standard ceramics that are magnetized through the thickness, then it will definately not work the way you have it. Those magnets need to be magnetized through the length so that the north pole faces the rotor directly. Otherwise the field will not be dense enough to give you the needed torque.
God Bless,
Jason O
So your saying face to face not end to end? It has enough torque to turn on it's own, but it can't overcome the magnetic pull when against the ramp.
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your lifting wheel (to lift the stator arms) on you rotor needs to be positioned 20 to 30 degree in front of your rotor magnet.. also your magnets (stator and rotor) need to be facing north to north..hope this helps. I have ordered 100 neos to build my second prototype of this motor to help prove whether or not this motor is feasible. with more magnets...I dont think that we will need to cut or grind them. these are the magnets i ordered http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B824 ...i wish you good luck on your replication.
Jason Pohl
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I plan on using all 100 mags to create a wave motion in the motor to cause the "cat to chase its tale"....We will see if that will work...Till then good luck on all other replications.
Jason Pohl
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Madmaxx,
I believe that if you were to make the ramp shallower on your arms, increase number of arms or turn magnets (will come back to this), then you will get better results.
In the torbay patent he shows the arm magnets almost touching eichother. the edges filed down in a way so that the magnets do not interact side to side(with one another) and only interact with the rotor. The important part is that the field be closed more (arms closer together) if you leave a gap between the arms then the rotor magnets will try to find these gaps as well. this could weaken your torque alot! make sure you use a weel on the lifting arm (that rases the stator arms via ramp) to reduce friction/drag. make sure that your rotor magnets and stator arm magnets line up when all down. if you get down and look across the device then they whould all be pointing right at eachother and not with the arm magnets above the rotor magnets. this way you get optimum opposition between magnets(thus creating more torque) also I can not tell the size/power of the magnets you are using but the stator arms may need to be moved closer to the rotor. the closer you get the more torque, but also the harder they are to put down. you need to make sure that you are using a rotor magnet(s) that is equal to the power of the stator magnets. not just because of degaussing but because it will encrease torque.
to get the results you need you may try turning your magnets longwise and mounting them so that more surface area is pointing to the rotor. this will weeken the field but it will close it at the same time. if it is easy and you have the parts i recomend that you use the same setup you have going now only add a few more arms into it. respacing it all of course.
also close attention should be paid to the cuts on the rotor magnet in torbays patent. without these cuts the ends of the rotor magnet would interact with the stator magnets in attraction. the cuts basically face the atracting pole inwords toward the center of the rotor where it is harmless. this is important in rotors using rectangular magnets and few stator arms. based on my trials this device will not produce enough torque with less than 8 stators spaced evenly, if using ceramics (based on size/power) they should be positioned no farther than half an inch from rotor magnets. and no closer than 1/8 inch. (if you have to get that close you need better magnets) there should be no more than half an inch gap between the stator magnets either. but if you are not cutting them do not put them to close or they will attempt to rise on there own not to mention requiring more torque to put down from an up position.
as long as the north poles of your rotor magnets are pointing out at the stators and the stator magnets are pointing north at the rotor then you should get a good reaction. the torque is provided by closing the fields and reducing friction.
to everyone else this device will work. i have not made it yet but am getting closer. (lack of supplies is holding me back) I have gotten the rotor to lift the next stator in line, but lacked the power to go to the next because i spaced my stators to far apart. make sure when positioning the rotor magnets to not line them up directly with the stator magnets when looking down from the top. if you do they will get stuck between stators and reduce over all torque. setting each of the three rotor magnets(or however many you use) just to the left and right of the stator magnets will prevent the magnets from hitting this "speedbump".
also as nas mentioned make sure that the lifting arm is located about 20-30 degrees BEFORE the magnets on the rotor. the next stator in line must be lifted before the magnets reach the one that is already lifted in order to achieve continous motion.
also those hinges on your stator arms may or may not be to stiff, and the weight of the stator arms is going to put some pressure against the lifting arm (slowing down and reducing torque of the rotor). to reduce weight simple cut groves into the bottom of the stator arm thus removing any useless baggage.
I hope this was of some help. I recommend making a checklist of requirements that should be met in building the device. (i.e. spacing, alignment, and friction losses, etc.) to make sure that you have done everything posible to make it work. this will help avoid some trial and error (mostly the error part :) )
well good luck. I will post all my findings and experiments and ideas along with video once i have finished.
thanks,
danny
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The rotor is a half circle with one pole facing out. Is this right? Or is half the rotor positive and the other half negative? Someone please clarify for me, Thanks
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Hi, The rotor's outside surface - facing the stator magnets - is one pole - same pole as the stator magnets.
Have a look at Tao's excellent simulations on page 4, these are based on the actual patent dimensions.
A ring magnet with this polorization is very unusal and would need to be specially manufactured. Speaker magnets are unsuitable since they are polarised across the flat surfaces.
A solution I am working on uses a stack of small NgFeB magnets attached to a thin iron former which has the appropriate angles cut into it. This is attached to an aluminium rotor which acts as a flywheel.
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People , I'm depicting in 3d the motor based on the patent , soon I will start to build and share info , but designing gives a thorough understanding of things hope we are in the right track this time...
In the meantime I think the best option for that rotor magnet would be a "Halbach" array for the individual magnets put together option,
instead of the customized one....I was whishing that the one I have from speakers would work but.....
What's your take at it?. Greetings
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Perhaps we could get the speaker magnet to work by cutting out the south pole and place 2-3 pieces of north pole only together? You can cut this stuff with a tile saw.
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Hi all:
Madmaxx the poles no matter how you cut them , reorganize again, making 2 different poles again, I tried to cut my donut speaker magnet but the powerful rotozip with metal cuting disc was no match for the brittle ceramic material. Yes , you did it but I don't have that type of saw with me what a setback....just to show like Torvay that simplicity is brilliant again.
This donut will work the stator magnets in my case they match in width with the donut one, and has the same repulsive reaction, say geting atracted towards it once lifted, same for stator magnets of same polarity
A magnetic monopole is only closely achieved by the Halback array , but for it to work we need cube shaped magnets , that's not difficult . Going to home depot.....Regards
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A wet tile saw is the only way to cut a ceramic magnet. Any other method will overheat and break. I haven't seen cube magnets at the hardware stores. Perhaps Hooby Lobby? I'll quit talking unitl I make another atempt. Perhaps this weekend. The hallbach array looks like it might have potential.
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Would this idea be of use as a type of monopole rotor? Multiple magnets could be used on the rotor but would have to be balanced. Here is a diagram of the monopole rotor.
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Madd here you can find them ,:
http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/halbach.html
Is a great site hopefully somebody would get this going somehow ,because I can't find anymore information about Torbay other than repeated news.
I'll go the saw way water is something I did'nt considered knowing better ,ho well .... Have fun.
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Would this idea be of use as a type of monopole rotor? Multiple magnets could be used on the rotor but would have to be balanced. Here is a diagram of the monopole rotor.
Hi Liberty,
That idea may work but you will run into problems with torque since you are using metal instead of magnets directly. The metal plate will only have a fraction of the strength of the original magnet so you may have to experiment to see if it will even work.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Madd here you can find them ,:
http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/halbach.html
Is a great site hopefully somebody would get this going somehow ,because I can't find anymore information about Torbay other than repeated news.
I'll go the saw way water is something I did'nt considered knowing better ,ho well .... Have fun.
Hallbach arrays are not a good choice to make a monopole magnet. If you look at the simlations on that website, you can see that though the flux is constrained to one side of the magnet, the actual pole orientations change. That would be very bad for the torbay motor because you will end up building a rotor magnet that both attracts and repels from the stator magnets.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Would this idea be of use as a type of monopole rotor? Multiple magnets could be used on the rotor but would have to be balanced. Here is a diagram of the monopole rotor.
Hi Liberty,
That idea may work but you will run into problems with torque since you are using metal instead of magnets directly. The metal plate will only have a fraction of the strength of the original magnet so you may have to experiment to see if it will even work.
God Bless,
Jason O
I would agree that torque could be affected, if the rotor magnet is placed too far away from the stators. But I think if one were to measure the magnetic field of the rotor magnet (with another magnet in repel) that you are using and place it within the "reach" of the magnetic field, it should flow through the steel plate with near the same strength as the magnet itself. The plate should be of adequate thickness to conduct the magnetic field into the plate and against the stator magnets for torque. Also the thickness and ability to direct the magnetic field of the rotor compared to the thickness and broad magnetic field of a magnet should allow the stator magnet travel upward to be less while using a steel rotor. I think that the field stator magnets may add to the repelling strength of the rotor as well while positioned between rotor magnets.
Jason O, you show in depth thinking with the great insight that you have provided.
Thanks for your insightful thoughts and for listening to some of mine, ;)
Liberty
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You are right Jason, I was too excited and stressed out trying to find a solution, that I though the lines where pointing in one direction, .......
Finally at least my Rotorzip was able to cut through the donut magnet, the disc was for masonry the metal one created havoc on the magnet. still the cut wasn't very clean it broke like when trying to cut glass but is pretty decent, I was trying to get to fast through the cut, the angle in the rotor magnet is 15 , now I have the stator ones to go I hope the 7 magnet array would be enough.Regards
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Hey Poeple!
Very interesting thread! Have been reading it since the very beginning.
One thing puzzles me though: why people have stopped posting as frequently as they did in the beginning? Where is Mr Tao, who gave so much to this replication effort.
Is everybody waiting for their magnets to arrive? (like me ;)) or has everybody suddenly realized that it wouldnt work afterall?
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Hi Toorik,
Actually, I think your first thought is more correct. I among others here are in the process of building a prototype of the motor. No loss of morale here :-).
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi Toorik,
Actually, I think your first thought is more correct. I among others here are in the process of building a prototype of the motor. No loss of morale here :-).
God Bless,
Jason O
Have you been able to have a complete rotation from your prototype motor yet?
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today i have recieved 200 neo maganets, i plan to replicate torbay's motor using 72 stator arms...more to come once the rotor and stators are placed. This motor replication has not died. These are the rotor magnets http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B824 and these are the stator magnets http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B842
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Hi Toorik,
Actually, I think your first thought is more correct. I among others here are in the process of building a prototype of the motor. No loss of morale here :-).
God Bless,
Jason O
Have you been able to have a complete rotation from your prototype motor yet?
Hi Liberty,
I just finished making a CAD design of the model I want to replicate. I'm working with someone now who will be doing the machining so it will be a while before I can do any testing.
God Bless,
Jason O
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i plan on doing the machinging tomarrow....can you post your cad drawings jason....thanx
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here is the replication model..
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Hi Toorik,
Actually, I think your first thought is more correct. I among others here are in the process of building a prototype of the motor. No loss of morale here :-).
God Bless,
Jason O
Have you been able to have a complete rotation from your prototype motor yet?
Hi Liberty,
I just finished making a CAD design of the model I want to replicate. I'm working with someone now who will be doing the machining so it will be a while before I can do any testing.
God Bless,
Jason O
I hear you, I am in the middle of moving and will be delayed for a while till I get resettled and find all my boxes and get my new workshop set up...
Hope all goes well for you on your prototype!
God Bless you as well, as it is important to acknowledge our Creator in all that we do.
Liberty
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I just finished making a CAD design of the model I want to replicate.
Can you post your CAD designs, as an attached .zip file?
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Hello
I write from Argentina. Only on this forum I knew about this Magnet Motor developed in my country.
There are posts asking for translations from spanish to english.
Well, my first language is spanish, I would be a volunteer.
I see the Babel Fish translations from some original document but... where are the originals? or the specific information necessary for you?
Greetings
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Hi Penguin Hood,
How encouraging to hear from someone in Argentina. Some of the original documents can be found in or referenced from the first thread (Part 1) of the Magnet Motor from Argentina.
Are you anywhere near Mar del Plata? Can you contact Walter Torbay for an update on his work? His residence address is given in the patent as Los Quebrachos 3042 in Mar del Plata.
If you?ve read the second thread (Part 2) on Torbay, you may recall that about 2 weeks ago we were teased by ?Luis?, another Argentinian who claimed that he is ?working? with Mr. Torbay, and that he is ?readdy to speak we any one, but muy Inglish is not very good. but I tried the gave alls information you need.? Naturally, his message stimulated a great deal of hope and response on our part, requesting more technical information and the video of Torbay?s motor that has disappeared from his website. But Luis has vanished as suddenly as he appeared, with no subsequent response. His email address is Id294@hotmail.com. Can you contact him for some follow-up information?
Thanks for any help you can dig up?and translate.
Cisco
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Hi all,
In fact, from the Mar del Plata city to where I live are only 130 Km, however I will not vanish.
Also I came back to first thread but still I do not find any concrete or clean information source.
I'm sorry. If you read again on that spanish forum, exactly here:
http://www.hispaseti.org/foroWanaH/viewtopic.php?t=3314&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
The user "Edmon" wrote that have seen the video of Torbay and he did a criticism.
Then "ICYTY" (supposely "ICYTY" is Walter Torbay) wrote a simple technical explanation (in uppercase letters) about the operation principle of your motor, as defence.
And "LEPARTY", "Americo" and "Rody32" have written attacking skeptics while they encourage Torbay.
The forum administrators revealed the IP address from: "ICYTI", "LEPARTY", "Americo" and "Rody32". The IP's address are: 216.244.221.3, 216.244.221.2, 216.244.221.2 and 216.244.221.3 respectively.
That signify "ICYTI", "LEPARTY", "Americo", "Rody32" was the same user.
Using geolocation (http://www.dnsstuff.com) to find the city and country of an IP the result is:
IP: 216.244.221.3
Country: Argentina
City: Mar Del Plata, Buenos Aires
Note: The Forum is from Spain
Anyway, I will try to contact Walter Torbay. If Torbay says the truth then he not would have problem to give exact information to be able to replicate the motor.
Greetings.
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My contact, who wanted to meet Torbay in New York City last week, has not yet emailed again...
I wonder if the meeting did take place at all..
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Stefan:
How is it that Torvay was coming to NY?, I would've very easy try to set up and appointment myself with him cause I'm in Jersey ,let me know if I can be of any help about it.
Now I hope that he's able to give out more info, as I mentioned before , things change rapidly once the world is aware of the potential of this namely: "control" of the masses , then we will just sense the dosification of the release of this inventions to protect others interests or the ones seeking profits out of it ,and certainly Torvay would be the least to make a penny out of it if he doesn't play it rough around here......let's face it, as per contemporary mentality many won't accept something given freely they simply won't appreciated despite of the fact of the obvious benefit .....of course that is bad psicology imbeded by our goverments and people just got used to it , that doesn't affect us here in this foum I hope... then the inventor subemerges himself into obscurity like before. It happened to Tucker (movie "Tucker the man and his dream") the inventor of the concept of the car without radiator...it was stoped by the humungus car corporations......Regards.
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Torbay had a meeting with some people from Bronx university in New York about 3 weeks ago,
from this meeting were also the 2 pics I posted.
The problem was, that all was very bad organized and one guy from our forum just was lucky to
catch and meet Torbay.
Unfortunately Torbay did not have his own motor with him,
but only a replication was shown from someone in the USA and
he had the wrong magnets used, so this motor did not run...
Why Torbay did not bring his own motor with him is not known
until now to me... maybe politics or fear for the motor being stolen ??
The guy who met him emailed me, that the new meeting was supposed
to be last week, but he has not emailed back since then, so I don?t know, what
is going on in this moment..
Regards, Stefan.
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Thank you for keeping us posted Stefan, Magnets wrong ? how bad he could've set them up? , well hopefully we will get it right, bye
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...only a replication was shown from someone in the USA and
he had the wrong magnets used, so this motor did not run...
Why Torbay did not bring his own motor with him is not known
until now to me... maybe politics or fear for the motor being stolen ??
politics?????
fear for the motor being stolen? he applied for a patent, why should he care if the motor is stolen, besides someone finding something that should not be there... it makes me wonder why the replication from someone did not work...
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Torbay had a meeting with some people from Bronx university in New York about 3 weeks ago,
from this meeting were also the 2 pics I posted.
The problem was, that all was very bad organized and one guy from our forum just was lucky to
catch and meet Torbay.
Unfortunately Torbay did not have his own motor with him,
but only a replication was shown from someone in the USA and
he had the wrong magnets used, so this motor did not run...
Why Torbay did not bring his own motor with him is not known
until now to me... maybe politics or fear for the motor being stolen ??
The guy who met him emailed me, that the new meeting was supposed
to be last week, but he has not emailed back since then, so I don?t know, what
is going on in this moment..
Regards, Stefan.
Regarding these latest disclosures about Torbay coming to Bronx University, I have a few questions and observations which I hope won't be taken as unduly suspicious.
First, why has the person who met him there been reluctant to post the news directly on this forum, so that we may explore more exactly and directly what he learned there?
Concerning the 2 pics Stefan posted on April 23 from that meeting in New York:
We are told that "Unfortunately Torbay did not have his own motor with him,
but only a replication was shown from someone in the USA and he had the wrong magnets used, so this motor did not run..." The motor shown in those two pictures bears an uncanny and very close resemblance to Torbay's own motor pictured in one of Stefan's previous posts over a month earlier on March 21 (Magnet Motor from Argentina, part 1, page 11). There are slight differences: the base is deeper on the earlier pictures, and the bottoms of the vertical side support straps are exposed. Other than that, the plexiglass model is virtually the same, including the large plastic gear on top driving the small generator off to one side.
It seems unlikely if not inconsistent that the North American who allegedly built the non-functioning replication would be so exacting in most respects of design, yet fail in the most critical areas: magnetic components and performance.
After close examination of the two sets of pictures, I question whether they are not in fact of the same model. But, we are told, "Torbay did not have his own motor with him."
If all the pictures are of the same model, then the reports don't add up.
Where is Luis when we need him?
"New meeting"? Is Torbay still in New York?
Why does he pander to the Bronx, yet remain so elusive with us?
Cisco
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Well, you are right, the prototype Torbay had in his hand looks exactly
like the one he had at his home and I also really wonder, what is going on there.
As I have not reached and he is not responding to emails anymore, the member
"Omnibus" from our forum, who was the one meeting Torbay at Bronx university,
he told me, that it was not Torbay?s motor, but he wanted not to go into details.
He had recorded a 2 hours long tape with Torbay, as he met him there,
but I don?t know further details...
Too bad, that Omnibus is not answering anymore...
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hi everyone: nobody think that he can feel a little afreid of you???? REPLICATE HIS DESIGN, :-\ I CAN MAKE BETTER, :'(I NEED ONLY A FLUORESCENT MICROWAVE AND MY LAPTOP, :-[ a little harsh don't you think so.......only my 2 cents. ;D
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:PWell I finally got to see the video from Nastrand,I had to install win2000 ,with my old system it wouldn't play the divx format, certainly I feel something thumbling in my chest,when I saw it ....the possiblities....... and for what I see is very promising, I understand the problem of designning that flywheel it has to put down the magnets at the right moment ,right now, that's what I have to determined in my model,.....I've been distracted cause I've found another way to produce electricity for warm weather..but anyways what' your progress by now??,Regards.
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Nastrand, Share the video!!!
SHARE SHARE SHARE :)
toorik
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The video is on page 20 of this forum "Magnet Motor from Argentina, part2". I am busy bulding the next motor with 72 stator arms using small neos. The rotor will have a diameter of less then 12 inches. Still working out all the details...it will be done soon tho. I will post a new video soon.
Jason Pohl
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I have designed a few improvements that everyone may wish to use in their prototypes... i am waiting on a femm sim to back up my theories.. sorry i am not going to post it till then... but on another note.. i have built a functional prototype. it still has issues wich is why i designed these improvements.. the motor as i built it spins without stopping but it is so week that i can stop it with two fingers and its speed is less that one rps... i was using week magnets and heavy materials and poor craft skills... my next model since i now know that it works will be done a little more maticulously. sorry to tease you this way. I hope it wont take long to get the femm back.. :( i know you will all want video so as soon as i get some money saved up ill go get a camera that works. till next time... cya, danny
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Hi Danny,
can?t you just invite a friend with a camera, so you both can post a short video ?
What kind of help do you need with FEMM ?
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Hi Danny!
?Can you post some pictures from your model?
Thanks very much!
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sorry, the closest friend with cam that i know of is not interested in tech and would not drive that far for just a picture or two.. :( i wish he would... trust me i explored every avenue. the only way for me to post a pic is if i draw it :) my cam is dead.. as nastrand :) he saw it.... the image is very dark and shadowy and all shades of green.... i think it died of neglect... poor thing never got used.... :) well.... i will see if i can maybe come up with enough money to buy a cheep dig camera or something today.. if not it will have to wait. as to the femm... what help do i need?.. hmm.... i need somebody to take a look at my drawings and make a simulation... i have looked at the femm program and decided i do not have time these days to learn yet another program... i need simulations so that i can make adjustments to my design accordingly. the changes i have made range from minor notes to help build the device with house hold parts to one major change... the major change will need femm to back up or rule it out... I have already requested somebodies assistance. If i need I will ask others later.. i am sorry for my hasty post.... i was half alseep last earlier.. I should have waited to make any post untill all was ready... please just disregard all. I have been very busy learning and designing many many things. I have logged over 130 hrs a week at this computer for a little over two months now in an attempt to learn webprogramming and more... my intellegence is a little spread thin these days... perhaps once i catch up with my todo list i will have more time/effort to offer this group.. I will post what I can/have as soon as I have put it all together. sorry/thanks, danny
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So...Silver....it's alive , it's alive.......aliiiiiiiiiiiive!!!
Is great encouragenment to me, to know that it works somehow, I understand the problem 'cause my magnets from radio shack are heavy and I'm using wood....my wheels from homedepot definitely will add drag to the thing,I'm still trying to figure out how to make the rotor to make it run smooth with a heavy flywheel on top of it....special bearings??......will see but try to get a disposable camera and put it in a video cd that's not to expensive so you can download .good luck
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Danny,
if you post your drawings, I can see what I can do with FEMM
from it.
Does your motor still run ?
How fast ? RPM ?
What kind of magnets do you use , Neodym or ferrite ?
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I didn't see this posted elsewhere - apologies if it's a dup.
The attached (whilst not how Torbay specifies his setup) may help create a similar device - using mechanical force only for actuation.
Thoughts?
Interesting idea for replacement of the stators, however there are two problems with it. I'm unaware of any material that would effectively shield a magnetic field. Magnetism is a force not an energy, like gravity. If we could shield a force, we'd have done it with gravity a long time ago and achieved overunity that way. Likewise with magnetism. The second problem is it requires power to make the actuators move the shield. Unless of course we did it mechanically, which also requires power, just mechanical power. However if the torque calculations are correct, there's plenty of that to spare.
Forgive me if I posted prematurely, I've only just read the old thread and I'm on page 17 of the new one. Not quite to the end yet. Very interesting read so far I must say.
Regards,
Gn0stik.
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http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/magneticExp/lafonte/lafonte.htm
doesn't this give anyone an idea how to easily move (very little mechanical power from rotor) the stators of this motor?
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I must reply to this one 'cause Lafonte was has been trying for ages , and this is to show that we might only have a proof of principle in this case and excellent demo in Buthce's hands to explain only one of the Torbay's motor characteristics/principles.. but not a motor and the kind of tridimensional power thinking is required to get a working motor, I must admit my own thinkering about Butche's motor didn't get any results if he only would've integrated some kind of actuator to supress magnetic force...... and right now there's no access to see his many ideas that never worked but where very inspiring, so close and yet so far and now he is going private like Perendev, we are going to end up with a "lease agreement" for his motor, yes we have to pay but not for a difference of only pennies,on the other hand if no terroristic fashion like restrictions are issued then we can copy it, and then again i don't think anyone is going to make money on this.....see??in the show by Simon Cowl "american inventor" a man invented the directional emergency lights for a motorbike helmet, the Judge inventor marketing guru said "thank you for the idea now everyone can put lights on its helmets......sorry not good, is too easily replicable"....Regards
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it has been braught to my attention that i have been lacking in my update... :( sorry,
my motor stopped running after a few hours.. it runs very slow... rpm..not sure... i dont have a device to measure it.. but i would aproxamate less than one round per second so id average it out to about 55rpm ...
the flaw with my model?
i did not measure the best effective distance for my rotor and stator magnet reaction..
my stator arm pins were stiff and non polished..
the sides of my stators rubb on the ancor to much...
my rotor is using the magnets set on their side (to little reactive surface)
i only used three small rotor magnets.
i used eight stator arms and had to much gap between
my timing was sloppy and not easily refine/adjustable)
my "top plate" was rough and had dents.. not very good at all...
all in all i was surprised that the thing worked at all.... but it did. i dont see why nobody else has gotten it to work.. it was relatively simple.. and the design is so accurate (in concept) that even with all these errors it still functioned.. so how is it that all your models are not working to some degree? The answer i think is that instead of building the model you are doing experiments... (building the motor with no topcap.. is an experiment.. not a replication attempt....) so stop playing and experementing and build the darn thing :) even if you dont know why it works.. as long as you usnderstand what goes where you can make this thing... a basic mechanical understanding is all that is needed.. you dont need to understand the fields and such untill later in the refinement stage...
I am going to have to take my model apart to create the new one.. i will start that today or tom. I am sorry i could not get a picture or video for you all but i am not joking when i tell you all that i have no job and no income.. i live on food stamps and government housing.. yes i am ashamed of this but there is nothing to be done... i do not have any money to go get a camera or such unless i get the money off of a friend or something. sorry.. you can count me as a lier or fony or what ever you want.. personally i could care less.. i am here to try and learn and help others do the same.. not to prove myself to anyone.. sorry for my lack of resources...
Once i get a fully functioning model running that i can be proud of i will send it off to somebody (one of you) to take pics of and verify..
Please understand that i am also trying to create a website/service (learning webprogramming at the same time) that will be a source of income for me and my family...... this motor though at the TOP of my interests and hobby list will take some time due to my lack of time to put into it.. :( sorry...
one last note.. this next prototype will take me a long time to create.. it will require a lot of custom work that i will have to find a "redneck" way to do.. this new design i drew up is complex (as far as building is concerned) and my ideas to add after i get a good working model built are even farther advanced as far as a mechanical raising and lowering system for the arms.. and transfer of eccess torque into rpms... (to make this motor more compatable with a standard generator...)
I will not be updating this post for a while..(untill there is something to update :) ) if ANY of you.. whether you know me or not want to ask me anything then please PM me on any of my messengers (i use trillian so all in one :) ) I dont mind taking a moment to describe this motors functions or my ramblings and findings.. just keep in mine i am have a simple education... my understanding of this motor is fine... my ability to .......articulate...... that is not... my vocabulary not being quite as advanced as some of you...
anyways... back to work i go... talk to you all later..
thanks, sorry,
danny
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man.. that went from update to looney rant in no time :) sorry....
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Here are the other pics I did receive from Omnibus.
He did not email back since about 3 weeks.
I don?t know, if Torbay was a second time in New York or not
with a functioning motor.
One picture shows a wrong stator magnet with a wrong polarisation.
I was told, that this was a rebuild motor from someone else,
but it really looks like it was Torbay?s own first motor..
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next one
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Next one
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next one
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next one
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next one
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next one, this shows an incorrect stator magnetisation,
this I was told, that this was, why the motor did not work...
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last one
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nice pics omnibus... thanks for the great work....!!!!! ;)
danny
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Danny did you shape your stator magnets?
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Danny don't worry man don't give up just that, but be careful like to many others this can be your ruin if you bet only to one posibility if you get obsesive, if you invest to much time in what is not a real priority in your life .........yeah reality hurts , but we have to work hard and organized, job,job ,job...and then hobby...........but sometimes is like a vice isn't it?,.avoid that cycle..........You have achieved a lot by making that motor and is very useful info .
In my behalf I'm making the apparatus the closer I can to the original , I agree on that, though I have those improvements already going on in my mind, I have faith that is going to work but if is not I have my own designs and we will try them,
The problem that I have so far is about "on its side magnets" but so far it interacts good with the rotor that has to be up 2 milimeters, and to create the flywheel .
thanks to Omnibus and Stefan for the pics those are fabulous.....the rollers on top seem like a nice addition,as danny said is mechanically simple and I also fig out those by mere logical aproach, hope they're not too heavy. I think someone was in a hurry not checking out the unusual polarity of those magnets,
As per axels in the stators mine are rought but I'll cover them with small pipes.....The best part is that the rotor is a polyuretane roller skate wheel arrangement expensive set but smooth and strong , the half moon magnet is rough on the edges but works as expected , so I think everybody is bussy and they will come out with elegant designs ....Good luck.
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I am going to have to take my model apart to create the new one.. i will start that today or tom. I am sorry i could not get a picture or video
Please, post your approximate location, so that you can find someone nearby with a webcam/video recorder. That way they can contact you, and arrange to visit you and document your current model before you take it apart. In fact, you should have them video it, or take lots of pictures, when you take it apart.
The problem with free energy/overunity devices, when people don't know why it works, is that little changes can be the difference between something working, and something not working, so a video record is vital.
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SOMEBODY TRY TO REPLICATE THIS
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6530165466308380947.
TO SIMPLE??
I HOPE YOU CAN SEE THIS VIDEO.
73
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I did tried it , this belongs very originally to the Hamel device folklore I'm surprised Billy Meyer has it as well, meaning, other than the obvious relationship to it.....what's the other relationship?, anyway it doesn't work any better than the Hamel's setting which doesn't have the notch, in my appreciation the gap in magnets doesn't make any difference, it has to be mechanically assisted by hand , believe me I was very excited thinking someone fig out something else new 'cause from Mr. Hamel's info is hard to understand, as per others apreciations as well and being in front of the man himself, reason being? his french language,
Anyways, is and impressive way to show the basic principle of weight into speed also exposed in this Torbay's motor, so inertia makes it look, "perpetual", mine did spin for a while because the metal ball and the disc was small in relation, to the top magnets rim ,mmm....."Are you pondering what I'm pondering pinky?" someone tried a bar magnet in an arrangement like that right in this forum so ......maybe just maybe
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So... I take it this project is dead? Bummer, I was hoping some of the folks would post some progress. Get something going with it.
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Hi gn0stik,
I wouldn't say this thread is dead at all. Most of the people who are actually building things are busy in the garage working on their models. I have already designed a 3D model of the Torbay motor (different than the one I posted pictures of) which I just need someone to fabricate. If anyone here on the forum has CNC capabilities, let me know and I would be glad to pass the CAD drawings along to you. I designed it so that all the pieces could be made out of 0.5", 1", and 1.25" thick plastic which can be bought online from www.mcmaster.com for around $100.
God Bless,
Jason O
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I have already designed a 3D model of the Torbay motor (different than the one I posted pictures of) which I just need someone to fabricate.
Why not just post them here, in an attached zip file?
I designed it so that all the pieces could be made out of 0.5", 1", and 1.25" thick plastic
What is the maximum width and length of the pieces? Can they be cut out on one of the small milling machines that are commonly available? (Sherline, Taig, Sieg X1, Sieg X2)
which can be bought online from www.mcmaster.com for around $100
Have you looked into how much the magnets and other parts will cost?
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Alright! sounds awesome. Well, if we can get one rotor, one stator, etc., etc.. fabricated, we can cast more ourselves out of alumilite casting resin, and make kits.. Did you design all parts? including the base, and topcap? I would suggest a base with grooves that the stators can slide forward and back in, for adjusting the size, etc., There are even different types of alumilite to to choose from.. However, I'm thinking that there are brass parts that we will need. I know torbay himself has made them from wood and plastic, but why did he specify brass to begin with?
At any rate, once we get a runner, we can cast parts from it.
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Hi Fred and All,
Yes I designed all the pieces to build a complete motor including the rotor cap. When I designed this model, I specifically scaled it to fit some standard sized neo magnets that can be purchased cheaply from www.kjmagnetics.com. I think the total price for the stator magnets came to under $50 (rough guestimate). As for the rotor magnet, my friend Dan LaRochelle happened to have some custom made 4" OD, 180 degree, radially magnetized arc magnets from another project he did a while back so I scaled the model I created with the intention of using his magnets. I'll have to get in touch with him to find out how much it would cost to have more of them made though.
As for the total size of the plastic that would be needed. I'll have to check the model to see but off hand, I can tell you that I made the base 12" in diameter (can?t remember if it was 1" or 1.25" thick). The other pieces could probably be cut from a 12" x 18" piece of 1" plastic and a 12" x 18" piece of 0.5" plastic. But I'll get back with you to tell you all the specifics.
The model is designed after the wooden one that Omnibus posted. So the cap has the spiral ramp in it and the base of the rotor has a series if holes and to place the lifting roller in it. The entire model is completely adjustable to make tuning a synch. I'll upload some screenshots and parts later this afternoon. If anyone has any preference for a particular CAD format, let me know. Otherwise, I'll upload each piece as a DXF file. Each piece was designed to make it easy to fabricate on a three-axis CNC Minimill.
God Bless,
Jason O
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I can tell you that I made the base 12" in diameter (can?t remember if it was 1" or 1.25" thick). The other pieces could probably be cut from a 12" x 18" piece of 1" plastic and a 12" x 18" piece of 0.5" plastic.
The base sounds too big to be cut out on something like a Taig, Sherline, Sieg X1 or Sieg X2 milling machine. The workspace on your typical small desktop milling machine is pretty small.
It sounds like a larger mill, or a small CNC router, would be necessary to fully automate the process.
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As i have said before please post cad drawings in here. I'm a CNC machinist with access to lots of materials including acrylic and cast. I have built a small prototype but no cap to bring the arms down yet. Let me see what you have to see if i can make it.
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Hey Duranza How's your setting behaving so far??, Mine is working as expected without the top!! I used my fingers to make it go in sequence , the satisfaction that Torbay might got out of his discovery had to be incredible ,Thank you Mr Torbay only a few hundred years of skepticism have been wiped out with your invention.....the main construction problems I have found are this:
Angles in the rotor magnets are critical in a way that they have to be at certain distance and angle according to your magnet strength because I was getting rejection in the opposite way at some point , therefore due to my crude construction simply the rejection was not enough I had to add a second half moon which increased rejection but then I noticed that leveling the stator magnets wasn't critical anymore, just don't let them stay too low in between other side magnets or they will lock it down, if they are not cut in angles to avoid interaction among them, mine were jumping ,now they are at rest with no problem, some rejection still there and efficiency will be affected I'm sure, but I have no choice until I calculate for the top flywheel.
I had 7 ceramic magnets the big ones from radio shack 4.5 by 2 by 1 cm, trying to avoid the fatidic "6" , they were to close and I couldn't cut them in angles my Rotozip finally got burned out!! so taking away one solved the balancing sequencing angling of the lifter wheel etc. All of this might sound daunting but just realizing that a relatively small adjustment made it ok , reveals the potential efficiencies in this motor ..just my 2 cents.
Is working partially and with materials I already had which is remarkable and couldn't wait to let you now about it.......the top is next.
I hope I could be able to download your plans Jason. cause I only have the rhino 3 demo for designing, I've heard of Dan La Rochelle he sent me pics of the relationship of the Aztec calendar and the sacred matrix and the egyptians in the Hameltech forum years ago thanks again for it..... what a convenient thing to have those magnets available.
Anyway let us know duranza how much would it cost to manufacture one of this I want to power air conditioning for my mother whom is sick and my father at this point paralized due to brain embolism.........medical costs make payment of power something impossible in a 3rd world country power still ridiculously high accordingly to water levels as well, even if you get the air conditioner the power consumption a year is about 600 to 1000 dollars a year! they are enduring 120 Farenheit everyday now. Good Luck
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Kulkangod:
Nice work. Sorry to hear about your mom and dad. I'll keep them in my prayers.
All:
I've been thinking about inverting the concept. It should be possible if all of the variables are inverted.
Put the "elevables" (raisable magnets) on the rotor N sides out. Then put the half moon stator magnet on the base S side in(It works in attraction). Just BEHIND the Stator, as the rotor turns, put a wheel to lift the ramp that pops the raisable magnet up. Ahead of that, almost immediately after it's raised, above the rotor, place an armature that holds a ramp that forces the raisable magnet back down.
The torbay motor works on the concept of creating a magnetic "gradient" so to speak, with the weak spot ahead of the rotor, to keep it always in repulsion from behind. This concept should work with an attraction based motor as well, but the weak spot would have to be behind the rotor instead of in front of it, to keep it in attraction mode from ahead.
There would be several benefits with this motor over the torbay design. It could be made MUCH smaller, The magnets would last orders of magnitude longer, and there would be FAR less force required to place the rotor magnets back in place in attraction mode than repulsion. Not to mention, the mechanism to force them back down, and you'd have much less mass rotating without the ramped topcap, and lifting ramp on the rotor itself.
If it fails in attraction mode, it would be simple to configure the motor for repulsion as in the torbay device, using his concept with a different mechanical configuration, and you'd still gain more efficiency, due to the fact your not turning as much weight. Torbay's motor does a LOT of work just turning the rotor, topcap, and lifting ramp. Also, the lever style lifting mechanism seems to be a bit bulky, seems to me something far smaller could do the job, further reducing the weight the rotor has to carry.
Anyway these are my thoughts, I just had to get them down. I'm gonna make a trip to home depot to scout "off the shelf" parts that could possibly be used for the various mechanisms involved, most importantly the lifting mechanism. I firmly believe that if people can build something like this after a trip to their local home depot, with little cutting or milling, it will spread like wildfire, and nothing the oil companies or govts of the world can do will stop it from spreading.
Regards.
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Hi Everyone,
I was attempting to put a few last minute pieces and parts on the 3D model before putting out the pieces individually for download but I didn't have enough time to finish it off. But I did take some screenshots of the various parts and pieces for you all to check out. All I have left to complete is the rollers for the stator arms and to draw in the screws, nuts and bolts to hold everything together. I will then lay out the pieces on a 2D plane so I can give you all a good estimate of how much plastic you will need to fabricate it.
@ FredWalter:
I realize that the base is too big. The person who was supposed to be fabricating this model for me would be sectioning the base up into four chunks to machine and then put them together. The model was scaled to fit the size rotor magnets that we had available.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Here are more screenshots:
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Torbay's motor does a LOT of work just turning the rotor, topcap, and lifting ramp. Also, the lever style lifting mechanism seems to be a bit bulky, seems to me something far smaller could do the job, further reducing the weight the rotor has to carry.
When you are thinking about all that weight, think "flywheel".
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I realize that the base is too big. The person who was supposed to be fabricating this model for me would be sectioning the base up into four chunks to machine and then put them together.
How big is the rotor? The base can be made in pieces, but the rotor has to be one piece.
That looks like a lot of work, to make this model. About how many hours did it take to make it?
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Hi FredWalter,
I'm not sure how long it will take to make because the guy doing the work hasn't had the time to start fabricating it yet. But I can say that I made the cuts on most of the parts so that they could be cut almost all at once. The 3D model itself took me about 7 hours to draft up from start to finish.
The rotor cap in my drawing is 8" in diameter and the smaller hub pieces are 4" in diameter. How big of a cutting area can your CNC machine handle?
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What do you want to make the base out of? Send me the material and I'll machine it for you for nothing. If I have the material as surplus I'll donate it as well.
How about 1/2" aluminum for the base? Could you possibly fit the design into 10.75" stock? I have 1/2" mic-6 aluminum plate 10.75x15 that I will donate to the cause if you can make 10.75" fit.
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Torbay's motor does a LOT of work just turning the rotor, topcap, and lifting ramp. Also, the lever style lifting mechanism seems to be a bit bulky, seems to me something far smaller could do the job, further reducing the weight the rotor has to carry.
When you are thinking about all that weight, think "flywheel".
Flywheels are perfectly balanced, which the torbay parts are obviously not. Not to mention, they take a long time to spin up.
At any rate, I like Jason's design a lot. Very nice. One question; Jason, do you think the angle of the cut on your stator magnets is enough to prevent interaction? Also I was looking at them, and I noticed you had what looked like a ceramic mag sandwiched between two neos, is that correct? What's the purpose of that?
Also a small wheel on top of your stator magnets might reduce friction on the topcap.
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Thank you Gnostic has been a battle......Jason I have the same question as Gnostic, 'cause I have the interaction problem which made my rotor going stale or backwards depending on momentum and the magnets are ceramic type not that, strong.
Damn I can't find a suitablelfly wheel and the weekend is on us for vacations I'll keep working until the evening I can't waitt!. Enjoy...remember the heros.
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How big of a cutting area can your CNC machine handle?
I don't have any CNC machines at the moment. I do have a Sherline 2000 milling machine, which I want to CNC when I have time and workshop space. The specifications for Sherline's machines are here: http://www.sherline.com/specs.htm
If you could get the parts sized so that they could be constructed on a Sherline, then there would be thousands (or more) of CNC hobbiests across the USA that could make them.
For my Sherline 2000: x-travel 8.68", y-travel 7", z-travel 5.38"
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I can handle 120" x 60" x 30"
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Hi Everyone,
I was attempting to put a few last minute pieces and parts on the 3D model ....
Jason O
Hi Jason.
I think that the TOP (image004.gif) is different from the pictures that Omnibus sent us. You use the whole rotation to bring a popped up magnet back in line with the other magnets, and Torbay uses only a part of the rotation to bring the magnet back in line.
Regards,
Eric.
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Just another know-it-all in your face newbie here. I don't want to insult anyones intelligence here (especially
mine) but I just can't understand the necessity of lifting all these heavy stator magnets up and down on the
Torbay design. Just seems totally retarded although I realize the asynchronous aspect of the design is very
good. Instead of wasting all this energy flopping heavy magnets around, why not just use the ramp to
raise lightweight Conetic shields up and down and let the poor stator magnets rest in peace! This would let
the device run more like a sewing machine and less like a jack hammer!
A device that would do this is in this patent application for a Low Energy Magnetic Actuator:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20060066428.html?highlight=low%20energi%20magnet%20actuat
It is claimed in the patent that it only requires a small amount of energy to turn the magnetic field on and off.
This would have to save tons of energy hammering magnets up and down and reduce friction. What am I missing here?
All right, I will go back to my comic books now and leave everyone alone!
Glenn
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I just can't understand the necessity of lifting all these heavy stator magnets up and down on the
Torbay design. Just seems totally retarded
The saying "you'll attract more bees with honey than with sh*t" seems appropriate here.
Instead of wasting all this energy flopping heavy magnets around, why not just use the ramp to
raise lightweight Conetic shields up and down
I can think of a number of reasons off the top of my head:
1) it is cheaper to make a mechanism for moving the magnets, than to buy 'conetic shields' and make a mechanism for moving the shields
2) the original inventor wasn't aware of the existence of 'conetic shields'
3) the interactions of the magnetic fields, that you get with the moving magnets, can't be duplicated easily (or closely enough) with 'conetic shields' (or if it can, you need to do a lot of experimentation first, in which case you have to consider the cost of 'conetic shields' and equipment that will let you make/modify them)
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Torbay's motor does a LOT of work just turning the rotor, topcap, and lifting ramp. Also, the lever style lifting mechanism seems to be a bit bulky, seems to me something far smaller could do the job, further reducing the weight the rotor has to carry.
When you are thinking about all that weight, think "flywheel".
Flywheels are perfectly balanced, which the torbay parts are obviously not. Not to mention, they take a long time to spin up.
At any rate, I like Jason's design a lot. Very nice. One question; Jason, do you think the angle of the cut on your stator magnets is enough to prevent interaction? Also I was looking at them, and I noticed you had what looked like a ceramic mag sandwiched between two neos, is that correct? What's the purpose of that?
Also a small wheel on top of your stator magnets might reduce friction on the topcap.
Hi gn0stik,
I figured out the size of the ramp from studying the photos from Torbay?s models. Since this model is designed from his wooden model, from measuring the dimensions of the parts from the pictures, you can see that the height of the lifting ramp is roughly equal to the height of the magnets. So he is basically lifting the stators one magnet length high. But this is not absolutely required because as we know from the experiments people have done here, and from Torbay?s patent drawings, that lifting the stators as much as half a magnet length is sufficient to create the unbalance of forces. I made the ramps one magnet high to stick to the original model but that is something that could easily be adjusted.
As for the thing between the two stator magnets, that is a piece of steel. From studying the pictures, you can see that the ceramic magnets Torbay is using have a slight taper from the north to the south pole end so to mimic the effect; I used two neo magnets with the tapered piece of metal sandwiched between the two. This serves three purposes. It helps to shade the opposite pole to reduce south pole interactions with the rotor, it also makes it a little easier to press the stator arms back down because you don?t have as much field concentrated at the north pole end as at the south pole (this probably wouldn?t make much of a difference in this case the way I designed it). Lastly, the metal provides a base to secure the magnet setup to the stator and gives some material to mount the rollers onto.
Speaking of rollers, I do have them on the model now. They weren?t pictured in those screenshots because the model was not as complete in those pictures as it is now. I am still putting the finishing touches on it now and will be adding the screws and bolts to go in along with the rollers. Then I will post more screenshots and the final CAD files. I won?t be too much longer. I am working on this in between my research work.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Thank you Gnostic has been a battle......Jason I have the same question as Gnostic, 'cause I have the interaction problem which made my rotor going stale or backwards depending on momentum and the magnets are ceramic type not that, strong.
Damn I can't find a suitablelfly wheel and the weekend is on us for vacations I'll keep working until the evening I can't waitt!. Enjoy...remember the heros.
Hi kukulcangod,
The problems you are having with the stator arms being pushed down will be solved with the rotor cap. The smooth spiral slope in the cap is the key because rather than forcing the stators down quickly, the cap gradually pushes them down along the rotation of the motor. You also have the bubble effect that will reduce the force needed the reset the stators. I mentioned this in an earlier thread but the idea is to guide the bubble of lifted stators around the circle, not force them down. With the correct adjustment of the lifting wheel and the stator cap, this can be achieved easily. I have made my model so that the lifting roller on the rotor can be moved anywhere on the rotor through 360 degrees to make it completely adjustable. Likewise the stator cap is also adjustable for every position needed.
I don?t think you will need to worry about the motor needing a flywheel. There is enough concentrated torque to rotate it from a standstill and with the moving bubble positioned correctly; you will always have an imbalance of forces through 360 degrees to keep it from hanging.
God Bless,
Jason O
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How big of a cutting area can your CNC machine handle?
I don't have any CNC machines at the moment. I do have a Sherline 2000 milling machine, which I want to CNC when I have time and workshop space. The specifications for Sherline's machines are here: http://www.sherline.com/specs.htm
If you could get the parts sized so that they could be constructed on a Sherline, then there would be thousands (or more) of CNC hobbiests across the USA that could make them.
For my Sherline 2000: x-travel 8.68", y-travel 7", z-travel 5.38"
I can handle 120" x 60" x 30"
The biggest solid part (other than the base) is the 8" diameter rotor cap. I'll probably make a smaller version later once I find some suitable magnets to use for the rotor. Short of having them custom made, I was thinking we could use some arc magnets like the kind that go in small motors. The only reason this model is larger is because of the arc mags that Dan LaRochelle has already.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi Everyone,
I was attempting to put a few last minute pieces and parts on the 3D model ....
Jason O
Hi Jason.
I think that the TOP (image004.gif) is different from the pictures that Omnibus sent us. You use the whole rotation to bring a popped up magnet back in line with the other magnets, and Torbay uses only a part of the rotation to bring the magnet back in line.
Regards,
Eric.
Hi Eric,
Now that I look back at the original pictures again I see what you mean. It looks like the spiral is only covering 180 degrees of the cap rather than 360 like I have drawn. What do you all think?
God Bless,
Jason O
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I think it provides for scalability for larger models. You could have a dual ramp dual rotor mag setup that way. However on a single rotor mag setup, It's probably better to have the longer ramp, to reduce the amount of work it has to do all at once to force the stator back down.
On the other hand a shorter ramp might reduce the amount of travel that the stator has when initially forced upwards by the lower ramp, which would lessen the impact on the topcap due to the reduced "kick" the top cap would experience when the stator pops. This could help with keeping it in balance and hence preserve torque and momentum.
I guess it all depends on what produces the greatest amount of loss in the system, the impact on the topcap, or the friction of forcing the stator back down. My bet would be on the friction of forcing the stator back down, as the upward kick could be mitigated via other mechanisms fairly easily. For example, you could build a ring over the top of the stator arms that would limit their travel, and allow the topcap ramp to contact them passively. Determining the optimum height of that ring would be key, but having it about mid ramp would be perfect, I'm guessing. Having it higher might be required to optimize the magnetic "vaccuum" effect that runs the motor. This ring would have the effect of eliminating the impact altogether, and reducing friction and contact time on the topcap. Win-win.
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kukulcangod,
My model behaves like normal. I push down on the arms and it moves the rotor forward. Sometimes it gets sticky and i have to help the arm in front up a little, while pushing down on the arm 3-4 spots behind. i made mine on a 6" base like the size of a CD. with 1/8 sq. neos.
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This is a Babel xlation of a recent news item - Argentina Google news search for Torbay
Buenos Aires. - The marplatense scientist Walter Torbay was distinguished by the University of New York by his discovery of the Magnetic Transgenerador, a device that through the magnetism can get to generate 1,930 watts of power of 220 volts. Torbay, that is director of Scientific researches and Tecnolo'gicas Independientes (ICYTI), with seat in Sea of the Silver, traveled to the United States invited by the University of New York, whose authorities proposed the accomplishment to him of seminaries and to char them explanatory of the discovery. "To that seminary scientists of several points of the United States were invited and also they attended the directors of other universities and the prestigious British scientist Vesselin Noninski, director of the Institute New York Sofia", emphasized Torbay. The prize of the University of New York consisted of two honorary plates, a computer laptop and 15 thousand dollars in cash. "Astonished by the obtained results, they made me arrive his recognition and they gave in writing a note to me certified in which they are committed to present/display in August next like precandidate to the Nobel prize to me of physics", it affirmed the marplatense scientist. Considered Santo Grial of the Energy, the discovery of Torbay uses like only power plant permanent magnets, taking advantage of the magnetic property by ricochet equal poles, the deviation of lines of magnetic force and a complex mechanical system that transforms the locked up magnetic energy into permanent magnets in motor, electrical or caloric energy stable and 100 ecological percents. This device generates 1,930 watts, when an average address consumes 1,500 watts, and does not need maintenance. "At the present time the investigations continue, in this stage I am developing a new model of the Magnetic Transgenerador but this it will be applied for the operation of automobiles", indicated the scientist. In as much, it emphasized that it follows "the delay of the concretion of a support on the part of the governor (bonaerense)Felipe Single, to be able to continue with the investigation in Argentina and finally to be able to begin to make it in p
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Ok, what I got out of this is that the new yorkers were impressed enough to nominate him for the nobel prize?
That's a pretty hyoooge claim.
Wow, I thought his demonstrations were unsuccessful due to a stator with a bad magnet arrangement. Perhaps he brought more than one motor. Omnibus, did you hear of any of this when you saw him at the U of NY and took those pics??
Apparently this is pretty big news in Argentina. And yet he can't secure help from the governor/president or whoever that guy is the article spoke about.
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This is a Babel xlation of a recent news item - Argentina Google news search for Torbay
(...)does not need maintenance(...)
Anything with moving parts needs maintenance. Moving parts require lubrication, and eventually wear out and will need to be replaced.
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Hey guys. I've been lurking in the background a bit, picking up things here and there, trying to build a motor with decent torque using magnets. I've noticed a little "speed bump" to the replications of Torbay's motor. The machine work involved in the "flippy" piece to get the desired action is assumed to be a little technical and a little expensive. Long story short, I have found that little triangular "binder clips" work beautifully for this "flippy" type action.
There are different sizes available and you can fit different size magnets inside. Seems to be a simple, pre-existing, product that is cheap and will work pretty well on a small scale up to about 2 inch rectangles. I'm working with the mini size and 1/2 inch rectangle mags.
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Good idea Konduct.I might use it by the dozens in my stacked up version of the Torbay generator,
Thing that got me thinking is why I didn't hear anything about Torbay here in New Jersey??!!!!
Now come on! a month ago or so this hapened?? I watch the news in spanish and english, from there and here and... and nothing has been said , they keep talking about the gas prices as if we where still in the dark ages in contrast to the Torbay's discovery??, what's with that??
well let's hope that everything is truth 'cause the site for the university is not mentioning anything at all at least 2 weaks ago when I searched. I'll keep looking but this is weird to me I'm just a few minutes away from Manhattan and the bronx through the Washington bridge for that matter.
Now I wonder ...is there going to be any restrictions as per the used of this motor by independent constructors like us ???.Good Luck
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Stacked up version? Sounds interesting. How's it work? I figured any one of these designs would need to be in multiples to gain the required torqe for generator aplications.
I tried to use pvc conduit on hinges for the Torbay design but it was already too rickity before I even got started. These little clips are very predictable. Just gotta see how long they last.
I'm not really worried about any restrictions. Build it, sell it, and pay a % royalty to whoever holds the patent.
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how do these clips flip up and down? how do you lift them? how are they oriented?
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The handles have an natural pivot point where they will spring one way or the other. Once you put a 1/4 inch magnet inside the 1/4 inch clip, its shape goes from a triangle to a square. With one handle on the bottom secured down to your base(Toward the outside of your circle.) The other is flipped the other way, on top, ready to be lifted and pushed back down as needed. In this configuration, they are barely balanced, wanting to flip up, however they are very easy to push back down. It only takes a little bump to get them to flip up, and the spiral cap would be more than enough to push them back down. I will try and get a decent picture.
side note*** I have been using multiple small magnets on the rotor as opposed to one big ring as I noticed in some earlier posts. Gives a lot of flexability to shape and size since several small mags can make up a bigger field.
Does anybody know how long Torbay's motor has been "out"?
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Hi - Can you please give a web page or catalog number so I can see what these clips actually look like
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binder_clip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binder_clip)
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Good idea Konduct.I might use it by the dozens in my stacked up version of the Torbay generator,
Thing that got me thinking is why I didn't hear anything about Torbay here in New Jersey??!!!!
Now come on! a month ago or so this hapened?? I watch the news in spanish and english, from there and here and... and nothing has been said , they keep talking about the gas prices as if we where still in the dark ages in contrast to the Torbay's discovery??, what's with that??
well let's hope that everything is truth 'cause the site for the university is not mentioning anything at all at least 2 weaks ago when I searched. I'll keep looking but this is weird to me I'm just a few minutes away from Manhattan and the bronx through the Washington bridge for that matter.
Now I wonder ...is there going to be any restrictions as per the used of this motor by independent constructors like us ???.Good Luck
Hi can you please call Bronx university in New York and check out at which institute
Torbay was showing his motor ?
Maybe you can get us then a few names from the persons who where
involved in inviting Torbay to New York and get their email addresses, wo we can contact them.
Too bad also the guys from Argentina who have been here on the forum
are very quiet in this moment ? Didn?t they contact Torbay yet as they
wanted to do ?
Also Omnibus did never reply back again ?
Have they all been going "black project" ???
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If you need some good magnets for your Torbay design,
here is a good source on Ebay:
Click here: strong cheap Magnets (http://partners.webmasterplan.com/click.asp?ref=284148&site=1382&subid=&type=text&tnb=32&diurl=http%3A%2F%2Fadfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F707-3922-3266-17%3Fmpro%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.de%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewItem%2526item%253D6059983388)
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You could use those for stator mags too if you could find them with a different pole orientation.
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Hate to burst your bubble but the pole orientation on that is wrong for a torbay device. The magnetization has to be through the thickness to keep it in repulsion mode.
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Estimado Stefan Hartmann:
En primer lugar, me presento: Mi nombre es Edgar Martinez, soy Argentino residente en la Ciudad de Neuquen, lamentablemente a muchos kilometros de la Ciudad de Mar del Plata de donde es originario Walter Torbay. Pero, antes de vivir aqui en Neuquen, yo vivia en Mar del Plata, donde todavia tengo muchos amigos.
Estos ultimos meses he seguido con mucho interes todas las noticias referidas a el invento del Sr. Torbay, incluso las noticias y publicaciones en internet que desacreditan este gran invento. Pude encontrar muchos inventos similares a este, por ejemplo el "LUTEC 1000" originario de Australia. Pero ninguno tan cercano a mi, como para poder corroborar que realmente funciona, hasta que tuve noticias del "Transgenerador Magnetico" del Sr. Torbay.
He leido casi todo vuestro foro. Puedo ver el gran interes y esfuerzo que todos ustedes ponen para crear una replica de este invento; estoy sorprendido.
Las noticias sobre este invento no fueron tan bien recibidas en nuestro pais, como yo esperaba, la indiferencia y el excepticismo en cuanto a este tipo de descubrimientos es muy grande. Parece que a nadie le interesa!.
EN CUANTO A CONTACTAR DIRECTAMENTE AL SR. TORBAY:
Como yo les decia, tengo amigos en la ciudad de Mar del Plata que a mi pedido, se han preocupado por contactar al Sr. Torbay, sin ningun resultado positivo lamentablemente, hasta ahora.
La verdad es que Walter Torbay EXISTE, y tarde o temprano podr? comunicarme directamente con ?l; pero eso no garantiza que el quiera colaborar con vuestro proyecto.-
FINALMENTE:
Podria usted resumir, en que estado de avance se encuentran las reproducciones del modelo de Torbay que veo aqui??.-
Quedo a su disposicion, para lo que pueda ser util.
Atte.
Edgar R. Martinez
Neuquen, Argentina
martinezedgar@gmail.com - edgarmartinez@hotmail.com
Dear Stefan Hartmann: At the first place, I appear: My name is Edgar Martinez, I am Argentine resident in the City of Neuquen, lamentably to many kilometers of the City of "Mar del Plata" of where he is original Walter Torbay. But, before living here in Neuquen, I was living in "Mar del Plata", where still I have many friends.
These last months I have followed by far interest all referred news the invention of Mr. Torbay, even the news and publications in Internet that discredit this great invention. I could find many inventions similar to this, for example the ?LUTEC 1000? of Australia. But none so near to me, as to be able to corroborate that really it works, until I had the news of the ?Magnetic Transgenerador? of Mr. Torbay.
I have read almost all your forum. I can see the great interest and effort that all you put to replicate this invention; I am surprised.
The news about this invention were not so well received in our country as I hoped; the indifference and the incredulity as far as this type of discoveries is so much. It seems that to anybody interests to it.
AS FAR AS DIRECTLY CONTACTING MR. TORBAY: Like I them say, have friends in the city of "Mar del Plata" who to my order, have worried to contact Mr. Torbay, without no positive result lamentably, until now (I do not lose the hopes). The truth is that Walter Torbay EXISTS, and sooner or later I will be able to communicate directly with him; but that does not guarantee that it wants to collaborate with your project. -
FINALLY: Can you to summarize, in which been of advance are the reproductions of the model of Torbay which I see here. -
I?m at your disposition for anything that you want.
Good bye
Edgar R. Martinez Neuquen, Argentina
martinezedgar@gmail.com - edgarmartinez@hotmail.com
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Edgar Martinez, Nice to hear from someone from argentina.
Cool name btw. Edgar Martinez (From Puerto Rico) Now in seattle, is my favorite baseball player.
Gn0stik
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Will these magnets work well? They are 54 OD x 46 id x 20 Long - ALL IN MILLIMETERS. 18 arc segments complete a circle. Grade N48. 9 with N Poles on the outer diameter and 9 with S Poles on the outer diameter.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Neodymium-MOTOR-Magnets-54-OD-x-46-id-x-20-L-mm-N48_W0QQitemZ6276931225QQcategoryZ413QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Neodymium-MOTOR-Magnets-54-OD-x-46-id-x-20-L-mm-N48_W0QQitemZ6276931225QQcategoryZ413QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem)
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Hate to burst your bubble but the pole orientation on that is wrong for a torbay device. The magnetization has to be through the thickness to keep it in repulsion mode.
Yes, Eric the pole orientation is wrong !
Try to use disc shaped magnets where the polarisation is through the long diameter.
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Will these magnets work well? They are 54 OD x 46 id x 20 Long - ALL IN MILLIMETERS. 18 arc segments complete a circle. Grade N48. 9 with N Poles on the outer diameter and 9 with S Poles on the outer diameter.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Neodymium-MOTOR-Magnets-54-OD-x-46-id-x-20-L-mm-N48_W0QQitemZ6276931225QQcategoryZ413QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Neodymium-MOTOR-Magnets-54-OD-x-46-id-x-20-L-mm-N48_W0QQitemZ6276931225QQcategoryZ413QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem)
Those ones (well half of them anyway) are the right orientation, however they are too tall, There are some sort of like that, that are shorter and wider it takes only 12 to make a complete circle. The tallness is a factor because your stators would have to raise a lot more to become ineffective to the ones next to it.
Try these
http://cgi.ebay.com/Neodymium-MOTOR-Magnets-43-OD-x-39-id-x-5-L-mm-N45H_W0QQitemZ6276930396QQcategoryZ413QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Keep in mind, these are N45s, and you will want the same grade of neos for your stator magnets. If you can find some chevron shaped stator mags that would be best, so that you don't have to cut them. Remember torbay specifies that, the shape of the stator mags is CRITICAL, not something to be overlooked, so a simple block magnet will not work as well as using shaped mags, and avoiding cutting neos is advisable because they tend to shatter rather than cut.
_______
/________\ <---- like that.
Looking at torbay's machine his rotor mag has an angle cut into it as well, but I don't know if that is as critical. And there's a slight angle with the segmented mags anyway.
I'm a firm believer in EXACT duplication at first so that people don't say, "well I tried it and it didn't work" when in actuality, they took all kinds of artistic license on the thing and got nowhere. The smallest thing can be critical. Technically I would be looking for a longer half-moon shaped mag for the rotor that is all one piece, because those little breaks there DO change the magnetic field of the stator mag from what the one in the patent and pictures uses.
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Hi All:
Stefan I will try to contact them , tomorrow , I already visited a website of the university around there and nothing...... despite the fact that there's a remarkable section dedicated to emerging energy technologies,there was no aparent mention of Mr Torbay's work nomination, So yes must definitely I'll take it upon me to find out more about it, we need to solve this mystery!!.
Edgar "sigue tratando", keep trying , your efforts will be most appreciated in my case I can't wait for Mr Torbay telling us is truth simply because many of us have been waiting for this change for a very long time and even working on our own solution,we need proof ,but also I know that country policy is though around there , I'm from Mexico.....I know......it would take years for us to see this machine out in the wild......Despite of the brilliant minds and brave efforts to go ahead......
And even if the author of "myths lies and down right stupidity " or Al Gore is right about global warming I'm sure by the time we see this machine we will have warming upon us......I did mention that in one of the cities I know in Mexico,that the temperature has reached record numbers.....from 40 to 50 celsius......
I see it as a way also to support his efforts weather he sees it or not that way, and when the time comes I would buy a motor from the source that will be unmistakably superior and reliable than anything we could make.....but truth being said by yourself as well, our countries are the biggest skepticals......
So here we go....Here my humble rendition of my efforts....for your amusement...Best of Luck.
-
www.freeenergynews.com has from the 'horses mouth' info on the Torbay NY thing.
-
Don't we have the patent filing here? In that article it says nobody has been able to dig it up. Anyway, someone should edit that wiki and post a link to the patent. How are our builds coming along so far? I'm still gathering parts. I bet he said that he earned awards because of the negative press he's been getting down in Argentina, according to Edgar. I bet he didn't want to tell the press that it failed because of "blah, blah, blah" so he just said they were "astonished by the results". And that press buffoon spun it from there.
OK, so in that wiki, some dude said he spoke with the scientist torbay was working with at NY. Anyone else wanna call and get Torbay's contact info? I can't believe this guy didn't ask. We need video. Nobody here has seen a running model yet, and every model torbay has shown has been non-working. I'm kind of hesitant about moving on without video.
-
Nobody here has seen a running model yet
Nobody except Danny Silverdragons, and he's not talking much anymore. Funny how they fade away . . .
-
Well, he said it was gonna be a while before he built his next model. With all his school going on and stuff and his lack of time as indicated before, it doesn't surprise me. Give the guy some time he'll be back. I've been where he's at. Low income, grew up on welfare, put myself through college, got a decent job to support my family. I can't imagine building PMMs back then. Or even having time to read the forums.
-
Yes, I found it, tao posted it a while ago, it was in the initial thread, that's what JDO used to make all his awesome drawings.
Here it is again, i'll go sign up and post it to that wiki. It's completely in spanish so.... Maybe I'll run it through some ocr software then through babelfish. Then normalize it to the best of my abilities.
edit: oops I guess you'll have to go back to the old thread and find it, it's on like the last page. this forum won't let me post it again since it's already here.
-
I'm going to assemble the rotor magnets with Neo segments.
/Eric
be carefull with the polarization of this magnets you didn't pic the correct polarization, they need to be north or south inside the arc and out.
-
Hi All,
I am going to post over here now the private conversation I had with the User Omnibus
from New York, who has met Torbay.
As Omnibus did not answer anymore since the 21st of April,
I hope it is okay, when I post this information and I hope
Omnibus is well and alive...
Maybe someone from this forum living in NY can check on him.
Omnibus told me:
"I live in Manhattan and run an institute whose purpose is to offer post secondary science courses.
The goal of the institute is also to promote and enhance science."
What institute might this be ?
Maybe someone from Manhattan know this institute and can call Omnibus up there
and ask him, what is going on ?
Many thanks.
In the nex posting I will send the messages...
-
Here are the messages , first the older ones:
Dear Stefan,
I met with Walter Torbay about a week ago. Unfortunately, he only presented
a non-working model of the motor. His explanation was that whoever has
replicated the motor in the US has placed improper stator magnets (having
S-N faces rather than only N). As you have noticed I stopped my
participation in this and other forums temporarily (until I see a working
model) because these forums are closely monitored by a number of people not
all of whom have good intentions and would jump at every opportunity to
attack Torbay. I do not want to give them such opportunity.
Torbay?s visit in New York was very poorly organized and in effect he lost
all his time here. Case in point, instead of making a presentation at a
prestigious university here, someone has organized the meeting to be at the
Bronx Community College. At that, it was so badly organized that practically
noone in the College knew of it and I almost missed it. I have an almost two
hour video of the meeting but I do not think it would be of any use to post
any part of it since the motor was not working. Torbay himself is the finest
young man but there are forces around him which I do not want to discuss now
which are obviously harming his cause.
I had a separate personal meeting with him and we decided that in the coming
days he should either come back to New York with a working motor which he
will present at my institute or he will send me a working model and I will
present it at the institute. If need be I will also go to Argentina myself.
Will keep you posted and, of course, if I make a video of the working motor
I will immediately post it in the overunity.com (by the way, he has remained
with the impression that the video of his motor is still on his website and
told me that he will see to it to restore it there if it isn?t).
The model Torbay brought was the well known wooden model. He insists that
the faces of the stator magnets must be concave. The rotor magnet is a
semi-toroid. The motor cap has the well-known sloping part and all the
stators have the well-known bevels. All in all everything was exactly as
expected and as discussed. Also, as Tao pointed out once, there is a
provision for turning on and off of the motor by pulling out one of the
stator magnets.
I think this is for now and I hope you will excuse and understand my
temporary absence from the forum.
Sincerely,
Omnibus
-
Hi Stefan,
I live in Manhattan and run an
institute whose purpose is to offer post secondary science courses. The goal
of the institute is also to promote and enhance science. I will keep you
posted regarding the developments with Torbay?s demonstration.
I am sending you here several links to pictures from the video showing
essential parts of the motor:
http://gggttt.host.sk/Walter Torbay and Father.bmp
http://gggttt.host.sk/Motor Outer View.bmp
http://gggttt.host.sk/Motor Closeup 2.bmp
http://gggttt.host.sk/Rotor -- Disassembled 2.bmp
http://gggttt.host.sk/Rotor -- Underside 2.bmp
http://gggttt.host.sk/Rotor -- Underside 4.bmp
http://gggttt.host.sk/Stator Magnet -- Front.bmp
http://gggttt.host.sk/Stator Magnet -- Shows Incorrect Magnetization.bmp
http://gggttt.host.sk/Stator Magnet -- Top View 3.bmp
Hope these pictures will give you a better idea of how the motor is
constructed. Essentially the construction is as we discussed it in the
forum. I don?t think there were any unexpected details in it.
Best regards.
Sincerely,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:53:20 +0200
>
>Hi Omnibus,
>What kind of institute do you have ?
>Where are you based in ? In New York ?
>Can you send me a short part of the video you recorded,
>where he shows his motor ?
>Many thanks...
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
>----
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:54 PM
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>
>
> > Hi Omnibus,
> > many thanks for this great info.
> > But why did he bring at all a nonfunctioning motor with him?
> > Was he afraid to show a running motor or did hid
> > wood model cease to function after a while ?
> > Did you ask him,
> > if he really has a running motor at home ?
> > If yes, what loads did he drive with it ?
> >
> > How long did you speak with him ?
> > Pleasekeep me updated.
> > Many thanks..
> > Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Hi Stefan,
If the stator magnets (as well as the rotor ones) are not magnetized
correctly the motor will not work. That is what Torbay said has happened
with the replica of his motor he brought for his talk. Whoever made it
didn?t realize how crucial the proper magnetization is. It appears that this
is one of the problems madmaxx has in what he showed here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,933.65.html.
Cheers,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:26:51 +0200
>
>Hi Omnibus,
>many thanks for the pics.
>Hmm, was this not the motor from Torbay himself ?
>So didn?t he bring with him his old motor with him ?
>Why not ?
>But the motor looks really quite like his own old motor...
>
>So why didn?t it work ?
>Because only of wrong magnets ?
>
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Hi Stefan,
Honestly, I don?t have the answer to these questions. Hopefully we?ll soon
know better what exactly is going on. Torbay was to arrive in New York
yesterday but has canceled his flight at the last minute. I was told because
of family problems. Will be expected to arrive next week. I?ll keep you
posted.
Cheers,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 03:22:13 +0200
>
>Hi Omnibus,
>I don?t understand, why Torbay was so lazy,
>not to bring his own motor with him
>on such a long trip to the USA and
>trust in a rebuild other motor which did not work ???
>
>Was it not a bit embarrassing for him,that this motor
>did not work when he wanted to present it to the people
>there at the university ??
>
>Is he a bit naive or what impression did you have ?
>Or was he not allowed to show the real working motor
>ordered by Argentina government ???
>
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Hi Stefan,
Yes, he did bring a videotape to the talk, together with the model of the
motor. You can see the tv set on which they played it in one of the pictures
I sent you. I asked him for a copy but he didn?t have an extra one and said
one can find it on the net. When I told him that in fact it is nowhere to be
found on the net he promised that he?ll see to it to have it on his website.
It?s still not there, however.
Believe me, I?m asking myself the same questions. For the moment I have lost
contact with him and someone here told me that?s because of the family
problems he has. Will try to reach him again today and if I find out
something positive will let you know.
Cheers,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:03:04 +0200
>
>Are you still in contact with Torbay ?
>Didn?t he at least bring with him a video
>of his running motor ?
>Can you please ask him about the online AVIs
>or can he email or upload the videos ?
>
>I don?t understand it all...
>Why did he at all come to the USA, when
>he could not show anything !
>
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Hi Stefan,
Yes, he did show the video with the running motor. First thing which I
didn?t like was that there was music in the background and I couldn?t hear
how noisy the running motor is. Second, someone kept pulling in and out one
of the stator magnets to demonstrate how the motor can be turned on and off.
That should have been done only once, I think. Nevertheless, it was clearly
seen in the video that the motor is working in a self-sustaining mode. The
rate of rotation, however, was pretty low (that doesn?t bother me one bit ?
the very fact that the rotor makes full turns all by itself is what makes
the whole experiment significant). I asked Torbay if he has any numbers
regarding the rpm but he said he doesn?t have any. It appeared that the
rotor is turning at about 60-100 rpm. The video seemed to have been shot
somewhere out in the Nature and with that music in the background gave an
impression more or less of an advertising stunt. I have no reason to
believe, however, that the video wasn?t of a motor really working in a
self-sustaining mode.
Other than that (that video) and probably Wesley Snyder?s video, I haven?t
seen so far any other magnetic motor working in a self-sustaining mode.
Cheers,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:34:27 +0200
>
>Okay, did he show you at least on his videotape the
>running motor ?
>So have you yet seen the "smoking gun "yet ????
>Many thanks for all the infos.
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Hi Stefan,
I would suggest not to focus on that video and insist on seeing directly a
real working motor in a self-sustaining mode.
Cheers,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:07:24 +0200
>
>Hi Omnibus,
>I see.
>Many thanks for this fist impression.
>Did they show it at least a few seconds running without the
>intervention from the guy who pulled something in and out ?
>
>Not that it might be the same as the Snyder thing, that
>it might be just powered by manual help by moving the stators ?
>
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Hi Stefan,
I fully agree with you, a video should be made of a demonstration whereby no
person should be anywhere near the motor while working for at least an hour.
I will have to see how the things are developing here and, as I mentioned
before, I may consider going to Argentina myself to see first hand the
device working. Will let you know.
Cheers,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:30:27 +0200
>
>Okay, so let?s still wait.
>Maybe you can arrange a real demo with new
>video being made at your institute or somewhere else
>or Torbay will send you a tape from a new video he
>will do for you and also will show, that there is nothing
>attached to it hidden, that drives the rotor !
>
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Hi Stefan,
I did tell Torbay about the discussions in the net and asked him if he?s
following any of them. It appeared that he is unaware of these discussions
and didn?t seem to be much interested in them. As I told you, he had
remained with the impression that his video is still on his site. When I
told him that in fact it isn?t and many people are asking about it he said
that he?ll see to it to have it again there. It still isn?t, however, as far
as I can see.
I think anyone interested in the production of excess energy should try to
get to the bottom of this. SMOT, Snyder?s and Torbay?s projects are the most
interesting ones and probably indeed exhibiting viable effects, aside from
the effects during the electrolysis of water in an undivided cell which are
difficult to be understood by non-experts. If true, production of energy
without spending any via magnetic motors will be much easier to get across
to society than in any other way.
Cheers,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:24:24 +0200
>
>Hi Omnibus,
>great to see you so much involved in it and
>that you now know Torbay personally,
>Did you tell him about my forum and the work
>we have done there so far with all the simulations
>and animations ?
>What did he say ?
>Did he already have a look there ?
>I hope you can convince him to upload us a video
>of his running motor.
>Many thanks.
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Hi Stefan,
My impressions of Torbay are excellent. I think he really wants his motor to
be distributed as wide as possible. He even told me that they are preparing
blueprints to send to people so that they can make their own motors.
However, something else is going on and I don?t even want to speculate what
exactly it is which has hindered his progress for already four years. I
don?t think it is coming from the government, though, since they were very
forthcoming when I contacted them. He also told me about the general
political situation in Argentina now and said that it?s becoming really
favorable for science ? more and more non-politicians, he said, are coming
to power, many of whom are doctors, engineers, architects etc.
As I told you, at this moment I lost contact with him for some reason. He
insisted that I should call him personally and very carefully wrote me his
cell phone number and how it is to be dialed from the US (this is the same
telephone number we tried before, if you remember). Unfortunately, his voice
mail is overflown right now and I?m not even able to leave him a message.
Will try again tomorrow and also will see if I can call someone to find out
more about his whereabouts. A big hindrance is that he doesn?t know English
and I don?t know Spanish. There always have to be interpreters and most of
the time the translation isn?t quite clear, unfortunately. Nevertheless,
I?ll do as much as possible to get to the bottom of this and to help in
verifying the validity of this idea and getting it across to the mainstream
science (if the idea is viable, of course).
Cheers,
Omnibus
>From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
>To: "koykoy koykoy" <koooyyy@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Meeting with Walter Torbay
>Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:36:22 +0200
>
>Oka, Omnibus,
>we will see, what will come out of it.
>Did you ask Torbay, what he wants from the invention ?
>Does he just wants it for his own fame or just to help
>his Argentina people or does he reall want to spread it worldwide
>or what is he up to ?
>What impression did you have of him...
>Is he being influenced by bad people or good people around him ?
>
>Anyway, as we have already checked how the motor works
>in all detail I hope soon someone will be able to replicate it.
>I wish I had more free time to play with it, but I am on a schedule to
>finish a different project ....
>
>Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
-
Maybe someone from New York can find out,
where exactly at the Bronx Community College the
meeting was with Torbay ?
It must have been around the 10th of April, maybe
a few days earlier or later.
Maybe if you find this out, please ask the people
who attended and who did build the shown motor
with the wrong stator magnet polarisation..
Also if Omnibus is reading this, please contact me
again.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
-
Hi (clever) guys
I have been playing with magnets for a long time and, though I have no working device, I do believe that a self powered permanent magnets apparatus can work.
What about, for example, the Troy Reed's motor? It was shown in a 1998 US DVD about "Zero Point Energy".
I am very interested in this topic.
I have locally saved and printed out all the posts:
Part 1: 206 A4 pages.
Part 2: more than 70 A4 pages.
>>> more than 270 A4 pages without the pictures. Good job.
My simple question is : Do the Torbay device really works?
I am asking this question because I'm writing a *favourable* article about the Walter Dario Torbay's device... And I'm begining to have second thoughts. ???
Should I be mistaken? It was said that the torbay motor has/had been running for a year. Is it true? Could anybody confirm this?
Thanks for any comments.
Best.
from a native guy of the (far most) biggest skeptical country in the word : France. :-\
-
Hi (clever) guys
I have been playing with magnets for a long time and, though I have no working device, I do believe that a self powered permanent magnets apparatus can work.
What about, for example, the Troy Reed's motor? It was shown in a 1998 US DVD about "Zero Point Energy".
I am very interested in this topic.
I have locally saved and printed out all the posts:
Part 1: 206 A4 pages.
Part 2: more than 70 A4 pages.
>>> more than 270 A4 pages without the pictures. Good job.
My simple question is : Do the Torbay device really works?
I am asking this question because I'm writing a *favourable* article about the Walter Dario Torbay's device... And I'm begining to have second thoughts. ???
Should I be mistaken? It was said that the torbay motor has/had been running for a year. Is it true? Could anybody confirm this?
Thanks for any comments.
Best.
from a native guy of the (far most) biggest skeptical country in the word : France. :-\
We don't know, we've had one person in the forum do a replication with crude materials, and according to him, it worked, very slowly. He blamed the poor performance on poor construction, and many adjustments needed to be made, he hasn't gotten back to us on the details of his adjusted model yet.
-
Here's vid of what I've done so far. Not much. But you get the idea. Use VLC to play.
Video lan project media player. Available FREE for ALL platforms. http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
Best video player period.
The next step would be to create the top cam that places the stators back down. In this model the ceramic magnets are too weak to continue rotation. However the energy loss is due to sloppy design and high frictions.
I was thinking if one used a wobble type cam to move the stators in a vertical motion only this would increase torque.
-
what is VLC? you cannot put it with a format that everyone can read? :)
-
Hi Madmaxx, Hi All,
Video works fine under linux... I used Mplayer.... Looks like a mpeg file...
Anyways... a very impressive and promising video...
I just got my magnets on saturday...hope to start building sometime this week. :D
--Mike
-
I've created a model of the motor with google sketchup, the model can be downloaded from http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=e9f02d1506e7e259cbddc80d51f2a95b
There is a link to download sketchup and view the model. Or you can download google earth to view it as well.
Regards, Gn0stik.
-
what is VLC? you cannot put it with a format that everyone can read? :)
I don't know what codec it is, but it won't play for me either.
-
It is a quicktime movie, please rename the file to
*.mov then the Apple Quicktime player will play it with sound.
I will recompress it and make it smaller...
Okay, now it is done, I have converted it to AVI with Microsoft MPEG4 V2 video codec
and GSM6.10 Audio codec and reattached it at the old message from maddmax.
-
I've created a model of the motor with google sketchup, the model can be downloaded from http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=e9f02d1506e7e259cbddc80d51f2a95b
There is a link to download sketchup and view the model. Or you can download google earth to view it as well.
Regards, Gn0stik.
Gn0stik, many thanks !
I will play with it and let you know.
Great !
-
The next step would be to create the top cam that places the stators back down. In this model the ceramic magnets are too weak to continue rotation. However the energy loss is due to sloppy design and high frictions.
I was thinking if one used a wobble type cam to move the stators in a vertical motion only this would increase torque.
Hi Madmaxx, what do you mean by:
"wobble type cam" ?
Please explain.
Many thanks for your effort.
Did you try already to put the cap on ?
Are the forces then to weak to keep a rotation
running ?
-
A wobble crank is a wavy disc. Place a bearing on the end of each stator magnet so that it touches the cam. Retain the magents in a slot instead of by hinge so that they can move vertical only.
It seems to have plenty of force to lift the stators since I doubled the magnets.
But the problem is putting the stator back down. This is the dead spot. There is very little energy to move another cam to put the stator down so that it lifts the next position. The force need to lift isn't much, but the force need to put down is. Once the stator lifts there is only inertia to move the rotor. This inertia is not enough to put the previous stator back.
At least my 2 year old likes to play with it.
-
Salve a tutti
Hello everybody
Thanks for your replies.
Thanks also to Madmaxx for his video (and HartiBerlin for the conversion into AVI).
Sounds promissing to me.
Working with magnets is very very tricky. Is it not? You can not get two identical magnets. Can you?
BTW, I'm reading:
torbay_test.avi (1072.92 KB - downloaded 17 times.)
17 times only?
Is the motivation slowing down?
Best
-
Madmaxx noted your excellent video - though isnt the Torbay priciple to raise the leading magets rather than to lower the trailing ones?
-
Madmaxx noted your excellent video - though isnt the Torbay priciple to raise the leading magets rather than to lower the trailing ones?
The motor works by repulsion. Lowering the trailing magnet forces a repulsion condition, and moves the stator forward one magnet which forces the next (leading) magnet up. Creating an imbalance that the rotor has to rectify.
So, in short, no.. lifting the leading magnet helps to create the imbalance but it is more to avoid cogging that it is lifted. The rotor magnet in this way sort of rides a magnetic wave like a surfer does. It has a repulsion behind it, and nothing in front of it, to hinder rotation.
-
Hi Smart_House_Sys
I see what you mean.
Is it not a mere "matter of principle" ?
If nothing in the misnomed "stator" is changing (moving up, down or away) the rotor miserably stalls. Should the "variation" be before of after. What is the difference? "moving-principle-wise"?
One of the way to get "something changing" is to use an electro-magnet.
That leads to infinite discussions about measuring. Does it not?
"So For ME" (this expression is patend pending ;D)
= Sorry For My English
= I whish I could be more accurate, but my English explanations are lacking.
Best
-
how do you reduce friction?
Simple - Get rid of parts that are in contact with each other.
Torbay design with NO RAMPS to lift stators. Well sorta, at least they don't touch.
I advanced the timing and it will lift 2 stators with the inertia.
I noticed that there is a lot of energy wasted when the stator lifts. Now if if we can use this to store the force until the rotor passes we can use this to place it it back down.
-
Madmaxx, nice setup and video - great idea to use additional rotor magnet to raise stators.
Suppose you put another repulsive magnet behind and above rotor to force stators back down? I see you
had to apply a fair amount of force to push the stators down, but an additional rotor magnet should
reduce the amount of force required - of course, the more magnet fields added to the system could
cause unexpected issues.
I want to try to replicate Torbay's design, just can't find the time to do it.
Very great info
Thanks
-
Hi Madmax,
it seems from your video that you have as stator magnets
the wrong magnets !
It seems you have 2 ferrite magnets on each stator segment
which are normally polarized noth-south at the big surfaces, right ?
But you need to have e.g. north pointed inward to the axis , so
the polarisation must be 90 degrees to your current polarisation !
So it is no wonder, that you don?t have big forces
onto your rotor...
Please let us know, if I am right.
Many thanks.
-
I would recommend the 90 degree option I have the same magnets Madmax and the rotor moves with great force and inertia, both if you can see I had to add a secon half moon magnet to the rotor so the force would be enough and the stator magnets lift up very smothly almost not applying force and a little more force is needen to put them down as well.....You can se that in my movie as well ,nonetheless the magnetic lifter idea is a great ,also the one about a wavy cam .
My cam is heavy made out of a plastic wheel for a lawnmover, my setting sitted on a plastic dish make it bend to one side due to magnetic force so for me right now is not a go.....I'm rebuilding with with wood platform and lighter spiral cam.
With my hands anyway I realized that the heavy cam could be moved once balanced......I hope I can make it work.regards
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"But you need to have e.g. north pointed inward to the axis , so
the polarisation must be 90 degrees to your current polarisation !
So it is no wonder, that you don?t have big forces
onto your rotor..."
A north pole is pointed into the rotor. I could turn the stator magnets 90 degree and increase the flux that is directed to the rotor. But I was having problems keeping the stators down. Perhaps I could cut the corners with the tile saw to reduce the interference. I think I saw this in Torbay designs.
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"But you need to have e.g. north pointed inward to the axis , so
the polarisation must be 90 degrees to your current polarisation !
So it is no wonder, that you don?t have big forces
onto your rotor..."
A north pole is pointed into the rotor. I could turn the stator magnets 90 degree and increase the flux that is directed to the rotor. But I was having problems keeping the stators down. Perhaps I could cut the corners with the tile saw to reduce the interference. I think I saw this in Torbay designs.
yessir that is a primary component of the torbay motor design. The shape of the magnets is critical according to the patent papers that are on the last page of the first thread I believe. Torbay says that two principals drive his machine, the lifting of the stators, which keeps the motors in repulsion from behind, and the shape of the magnets which reduce interference by adjacent stators.
Also just having a topcap that would limit the upward travel of the stator magnets would help reduce the force it took to shove them back down. They only have to travel half the magnet face's distance upward to sufficiently create the imbalance. A small roller on the top of your stator mags would probably help reduce friction on the topcap as they will be pressing against it pretty hard until they shoved back down by the ramp, unless you cut the sides to the angle as specified by torbay.
Also your magnets seem to be a little long, I think they should be much shorter to reduce the amount of magnet surface (and hence flux)opposing adjacent stators. Perhaps 1/4 as long(on the side).
____________________
\ N /
\________S________/ <---- like that.
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Hi.
I really don't want to confuse anybody by showing a device that has a rotor magnet that is different magnetized than the original Torbay patent. But the first proof of concept makes that I want to show the big torque I get. The clip shows a 'Fred Flinstone'-style device where I mounted the stator magnets on pieces of iron. At 11 o'clock you see 2 magnets that are slightly higher mounted. The distance between stator magnets is chosen so that lifting and bringing down in line is not too heavy and when I'm going to mount the stator magnets on arms, with additional weights to make lifting and sinking easier I think I have to add a considerable load to the rotor to bring speed down.
The rotor magnets I used are at: http://www.fdp.nu/demo/fdp_neo_arc.gif (http://www.fdp.nu/demo/fdp_neo_arc.gif)
I?ll let the moderator decide if the video should be here or not. He may delete this.
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Hi Eric,
This is an interesting way to do this. Try it with the lifting arms next to see if the torque you are getting will be enough to lift the stators.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Wow, it turns a full 180 degrees out. It's in repulsion on one end and attraction on the other until the poles are on either side of the lifted mags. If you put your lifter ramp at 90 degrees counter clockwise to the peak of the "arch" on that set up, you'd have pretty good travel time, and they'd be getting lifted at mid "stroke" so to speak, so that it would be at maximum rpm that way. To increase torque, shorten that to say 90 degrees, but this would decrease rpm. Once you have the lifting arms built on hinges or something, then you can determine the force needed to force the stators down (seems to be the sticking point.), and adjust the lifting ramp to the appropriate torque level.
By the way, how did you encase the rotor mags in that epoxy resin? That's sweet.
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Hi.
I will start with only one arm, that is going to lift 2 magnets at once. I must figure out first how much force is needed to bring the magnets down and how much (little) the magnets have to be lifted to get any torque at all. Adding an adjustable pressure spring to keep the arm down will help also. Until I do some more tests I have the feeling that the device can work with just one arm. Because when all stator magnets are in line, there is very little friction and lifting 2 magnets is really throwing the 1,5 kilo rotor to the opposite side.
I milled the plexiglas box for the rotor magnets.
Eric.
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I agree you would have to lift fewer arms with your design, but I would think you'd at least have to lift 2 sets that are 180 degrees from eachother. One set spins it around 180, the other returns it.
Or do you think pushing it back down will return it?
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Has anyone seen an English version of Torbay's patent? The picture of the device is of poor quality, can't see what is what.
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Has anyone seen an English version of Torbay's patent? The picture of the device is of poor quality, can't see what is what.
You can see some better quality images of the patented prototype on Torbay's website here: http://club.telepolis.com/LICYTA/
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Has anyone seen an English version of Torbay's patent? The picture of the device is of poor quality, can't see what is what.
You can see some better quality images of the patented prototype on Torbay's website here: http://club.telepolis.com/LICYTA/
Thanks, that cleared many thinks up.
Have a look at this picture:
(http://www.tntproxy.com/cgi-bin/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/111110A/http/club.telepolis.com/LICYTA/ima/p15.jpg)
The magnets on the outside (stator) are lifted due to the ramp Torbay made beneath the lever holding the magnets. So the rotor probably has a protrusion that slides along this triangular feature. If this motor runs at all, it is going to make a lot of noise, banging against the ramp and pushing up the magnets to disturb the symmetry around the pie shaped rotor magnet.
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??? I have tried 2 cams already and my setting just doesn't move.........I changed the heavier one to a lighter one and still nothing , when in effect the manual method works, showing a whole 360 rotation with just one magnet pushing but....apparently the magnet force is not enough all togheter, and innertia just doesn't cut it for the lighter cam with clear acrylic spiral ramp regulated by bolts from the top to assure maximum advantgeous angle......next thing is to try very strong magnets and cuts , I don't think is going to work without with 6 magnets around probably more.......the timing shows to be ok.....Good Luck.
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Just an idea but ......what if the magnets where electromagnets , feeding from the same rotation of the motor??
I figure it would have to be "cranked " at the begining but we might have an ever increasing force at some point if law of conservation permits :o ;D
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hey kukulcangod!
can you post a video of your device?
so what if its not working yet. we can still learn from it.
did you shape your magnets or not?
I'm going to try with 3/4 inch cube neos (twelve of them). dont think I will be able to shape them.
best of luck.
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Could someone test the Torbay-like setup without moving one of the stator magnets but to insert a sheet of diamagnetic material in front of the semicircular rotor magnet? Would this cause the assymmetry we are looking for without moving a stator magnet? Thus a fixed 360 deg arrangement of N poles on the outside and a semicircular arrangement of N-poles on the rotor, where a sheet of lead, bismuth, plywood etc is use to disturb the field in front of the rotor magnet.
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I doubt this would work, as the diamagnetic force is very weak.
Regards, Gn0stik.
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nobody think that we are loosing valuable time and money.......
we may have 15 "experiments" on process.....
why don't we organice a grupe to fabricate torbay's transgenerator at one and post all the information so all of us can fix the problems on torbay's designe, cos all agree that the transgenerator can be a lot better.
I propost JASON has the head lead. somebody second??????
let said that torbay's trasngenerator is 150 us$ each, we can start with a donation "pro-rebuild " of 20 us$ each.......in my case .... JASON, tell me where do I send the money.
best regards
maran
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hey kukulcangod!
can you post a video of your device?
so what if its not working yet. we can still learn from it.
did you shape your magnets or not?
I'm going to try with 3/4 inch cube neos (twelve of them). dont think I will be able to shape them.
best of luck.
if you use a wet tile saw you can cut them.
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hey kukulcangod!
can you post a video of your device?
so what if its not working yet. we can still learn from it.
did you shape your magnets or not?
I'm going to try with 3/4 inch cube neos (twelve of them). dont think I will be able to shape them.
best of luck.
if you use a wet tile saw you can cut them.
Hey Gn0stik! a wet tile saw? not sure what you mean.
Do you mean electrical tile saw?
thanks
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Here is a wet tile saw, it should make nice cuts in ceramic magnets (in theory):http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3733 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3733)
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Yep that's it. You want to use a wet saw because you don't want to overheat your neos.. It wrecks them. The water keeps them cool while cutting.
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I did a lot of tests with my Torbay device. I still move magnets by hand. Pushing a stator magnet up, is not using energy from the device. Pushing it back, however, cost energy. By making the magnets more heavy, it can made easier to pull them back in line.
But I thought about something else as well. Torby let the rotor magnets just pop up. This means that the kinetic energy that is released at that time, is lost (converted to noise). The 'head'-unit of the device coud easily have a slanted startpoint as well. That mean that the magnet that pops up helps the 'head'-unit around and is a counterweight for the magnet that has to go down.
This is not only more effective, it makes that device less noisy as well.
Eric.
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toorik and all in the hopes that we can learn from this and since nobody else has posted more about motor progress here we go.
It seems that the Torque in my device is not enough , for moving anything , it just doesn't move a bit once the ramp is in place pushing down 3 magnets in spiraling progressive degree, I solved the problem of leaning down in my rotor, but still same result .
6 magnets were used 'cause I couldn't cut them otherwise I would've install 8 because it would've create more torque obviously with stronger magnets the force will be maybe enough, we don't know because we are on our own on this one believe me .
Ceramic magnets are not enough, in the pics you'll see my first wheel, all plastic and then the white tray light as a feather with the acrylic ramp.....no the bolts don't interfere with magnets going down, I did this to regulate the angle in a convenient way I hope this serves of inspiration to others wanting to regulate their device according to what they have available which was what I did this time using what was already around.
Feedback is important, I wonder where you are "Silverdragonsr".....
also Stefan hope you are around to see what's going on in here despite the Soccer world cup....what a party!!!
So I have to recreate and experiment more things.....keep the good work, Best of Lucks
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2 more pics ;D
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last one ::)
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A simple idea:
The same configuration from Torbay motor, but the stator with fixed magnets (no movable parts) and one coil placed (with core in axial direction) in front of the semicircular rotor magnet. The coil is short-circuited or better with a capacitor as load to reduce losses. For example, a LC configuration in electric resonance with the mechanic rotation.
By Lenz effect the coil produces the unbalance on the stator magnetic field to move the rotor.
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Hey kukulcangod and all!
Nice pics.
couple of questions: what kind of magnets are you using. are your stator magnets not the usual ferrite magnets that are polarized through thickness? because if they are then check madmaxx's design at page 14. I believe he had the polarization wrong. (sorry madmaxx and kukulcangod if i'm wrong :D)
and same for the rotor magnet. which way is the rotor magnet polarized?
best of luck.
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also Stefan hope you are around to see what's going on in here despite the Soccer world cup....what a party!!!
Sorry for the offtopic reply, but I jus?t found how to view the soccer WM2006
for free on an UMTS phone via Vodafone My PC streaming:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvl_Lw4I05U
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Yes, seems
kukulcangod
has also the wrong stator magnets.
You must turn them by 90 degrees towards the rotor axis with their
big surface...otherwise the forces are too weak !
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Hey kukulcangod and all!
Nice pics.
couple of questions: what kind of magnets are you using. are your stator magnets not the usual ferrite magnets that are polarized through thickness? because if they are then check madmaxx's design at page 14. I believe he had the polarization wrong. (sorry madmaxx and kukulcangod if i'm wrong )
Thanks T , the thing is with this radio shack magnets ceramic and magnetized through thickness that if I put them in the suggested side, the will get stuck to the rotor ??? because funny enough I'm using two half moons stacked magnets and the top one rejects the other attracts......so you know I wasn't expecting that behaviour from it , none the less by rising my stators a few milimimeters I would get clean rejection with one rotor half moon. I will try different arrangements will see.Good luck.
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Hi all
Reading your posts I notice that you have all the same problem.
That the created torque is enough to lift up a statormagnet but is too weak to bring them down after passing them.
So just an idea based on this.
I think that the kinetic energy of the rotor created by the repulsion ist not high enough to do both.
What would happen if you build a unit with a bigger radius so that the rotor magnet has a longer "way" to run "free" and store more kinetic energy in the rotor?
And - if I remember well you all are trying to liftup the first stator just in front of the stator. Torbay uses a rotormagnet that covers three statormagnets at a time.
Have anyone try to lift the third statormagnet in front of the rotormagnet? I think that this would be the better timing. The donkey will run faster if he see the carot more far away as he has it hanging down right in front of his nose.
Please tell me if I?m complete wrong.
CU
2Tiger
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And - if I remember well you all are trying to liftup the first stator just in front of the stator. Torbay uses a rotormagnet that covers three statormagnets at a time.
Good thinking tiger, out of frustration it would've take me longer to get to that detail , it means going back to study original plans etc, that's why I made it in rhino as accurate as possible but constructing -again-with what is available amounts to a lot of brainstorming when time permits, Those are the types of observations we need to correct our trayectory.
I did experiment with my setting and as I mentioned before, with only one stator my rotor is able to go 360 and lift 2 stators after that , still need to be considered flywheel weight and power of magnets for Torque.Keep up the good work.
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Hi
Here some information from Torbay?s patent script.
Page 6
...logramos obtener una fuerza de rechazo magnetico que llamamos X y que sera igual a Z1+F+F+F = X despejando la ecuacion nos queda X=F+F+F+F+F+F=6F.
Por otro lado Fq=F concluimos en que X>>>F4 (F4 es la F generada por M4) (aclaramos que F4<F debido a su desplazamiento y que X>>>Q por lo que obligamos al brazo rotor a desplazarce hacia la posision 2 (P2), por sistema mecanico M4 baja y se eleva M5 repitiendo todo el proseso anterior, de esta manera el brazo rotor se desplaza infinitamente (Pn+1)
X=6F-F4-Q=4F+
....
translation:
... we obtain a repeling force we call X and the amount would be Z1+F+F+F = X = 6F.
(Z1 = magnetic force of the rotormagnet (covering 3 of the statormagnets), F = mag. force of ONE statormagnet)
On the other side we have Fq=F and X>>>F4(where F4 is the force generated by M4) (also we explain that F4 < F because of its desplaced position (lifted up) and X>>>Q (where Q include al mecanical losses, so the rotor has only one way to go, to Pos2(P2).
By a mechanical system(push down system) M4 will be pushed down and M5 will be lifted up (regard the order - first he pushed down and then he lifted up!!!) so that the process starts again.
X=6F-F4-Q=4F+
Well, as I read my physics book well, a magnetic force can only exist by an interaction between a magnet and another magnet or ferromaterials in other words only when you create a mag. flux.
So I see a mistake an his first formula Z1+F+F+F = X = 6F.
The repeling force X MUST be 3F, there is no other way.
F4 is smaller than F. But why???. When he says F4 is the force created by M4, he surely means the lower repeling force of the lifted up stator No. 4 (perhaps there is an atraccion force, I don?t know!) so it is a positive value non a neagativ.
Also he supose that all mecanical/friccion losses Q are equal F. So all of you who have a model of this motor report that there is enough torque for lift up a stator, but no enough to feed a pushdown mechanism, i think that Q must be bigger than 1F, perhaps 2F.
And where in the formula is the forcevalue to push down or lift up a stator?
From my point of view his last formula on page No. 6 must be the following:
F4=+1F Q=-2F -> X=3F+F4-Q=2F+
The only way to get a continiusly movement is, that you push down a stator ONLY with 1F in order to get 3F repeling force for start the cycle again.
But then you only have a selfrunner :-[- NO OU, sorry!
Any kind of critical replies are welcome. Thanks.
Cu
2Tiger
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Perhaps, since 3 stator magnets are in front of the stator, that is 3 times as big, he calculates the rotor force (Z1) equal to the 3 forces of the stator magnets. Z1 = F+F+F
/Eric.
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Perhaps, since 3 stator magnets are in front of the stator, that is 3 times as big, he calculates the rotor force (Z1) equal to the 3 forces of the stator magnets. Z1 = F+F+F
/Eric.
Z1=F+F+F but ONLY when you have these three stator magnets in front of the rotormagnet, otherwise you cannot talk about a magnetic force.
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This goes in addition to Tiger's comment, of lifting the stator ahead of the three already lifted. I recall seeing a model where the rotor was a complete circle, North/South along its diameter. Right now we are working on repulsion ONLY and half a rotor, but if the other half was present, providing an attractive force, no rigging would be needed to pull the stators back down, the attractive side would do that for us. All we would need to be concerned with is lifting the magnet ahead of the repulsion zone, to let the magnetic "bubble" we are squeezing around move. Thats the ONLY force to contend with, LIFTING a stator out of attraction so the repulsion side can rotate to alignment...
Just a thought ;D
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Hi
Here some information from Torbay?s patent script.
Page 6
...logramos obtener una fuerza de rechazo magnetico que llamamos X y que sera igual a Z1+F+F+F = X despejando la ecuacion nos queda X=F+F+F+F+F+F=6F.
Por otro lado Fq=F concluimos en que X>>>F4 (F4 es la F generada por M4) (aclaramos que F4<F debido a su desplazamiento y que X>>>Q por lo que obligamos al brazo rotor a desplazarce hacia la posision 2 (P2), por sistema mecanico M4 baja y se eleva M5 repitiendo todo el proseso anterior, de esta manera el brazo rotor se desplaza infinitamente (Pn+1)
X=6F-F4-Q=4F+
....
translation:
... we obtain a repeling force we call X and the amount would be Z1+F+F+F = X = 6F.
(Z1 = magnetic force of the rotormagnet (covering 3 of the statormagnets), F = mag. force of ONE statormagnet)
On the other side we have Fq=F and X>>>F4(where F4 is the force generated by M4) (also we explain that F4 < F because of its desplaced position (lifted up) and X>>>Q (where Q include al mecanical losses, so the rotor has only one way to go, to Pos2(P2).
By a mechanical system(push down system) M4 will be pushed down and M5 will be lifted up (regard the order - first he pushed down and then he lifted up!!!) so that the process starts again.
X=6F-F4-Q=4F+
Well, as I read my physics book well, a magnetic force can only exist by an interaction between a magnet and another magnet or ferromaterials in other words only when you create a mag. flux.
So I see a mistake an his first formula Z1+F+F+F = X = 6F.
The repeling force X MUST be 3F, there is no other way.
F4 is smaller than F. But why???. When he says F4 is the force created by M4, he surely means the lower repeling force of the lifted up stator No. 4 (perhaps there is an atraccion force, I don?t know!) so it is a positive value non a neagativ.
Also he supose that all mecanical/friccion losses Q are equal F. So all of you who have a model of this motor report that there is enough torque for lift up a stator, but no enough to feed a pushdown mechanism, i think that Q must be bigger than 1F, perhaps 2F.
And where in the formula is the forcevalue to push down or lift up a stator?
From my point of view his last formula on page No. 6 must be the following:
F4=+1F Q=-2F -> X=3F+F4-Q=2F+
The only way to get a continiusly movement is, that you push down a stator ONLY with 1F in order to get 3F repeling force for start the cycle again.
But then you only have a selfrunner :-[- NO OU, sorry!
Any kind of critical replies are welcome. Thanks.
Cu
2Tiger
Until someone builds the motor to his patent specs we cannot take our test results and apply them to his equations. Every single replication attempt has had something not quite right about it according to his patent, ie wrong magnet pole alignment, no shaped stator magnet, not enough stator magnets, etc.
To me, the fact that we have gotten any results whatsoever is amazing. We did have one person here who claimed to have a slow turner, and he said he built it shabbily, and it needed refinement. Once we build one to specs, THEN we should modify and experiment, until then, we cannot speculate about output power based on our own experimentation.
Just an observation.
I was however curious about the results of eric's design, since it appeared to have so much torque. (it shook the table it was on).
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what whappen, nobody post any comment during 5 days. where is every body???????
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Hello Everybody,
Sorry I have not gotten the promised simulation files up online yet. I just spoke to Maran about this today and I will post the dxf's of the pieces I have currently setup. I was trying to wait until I could find the time to put the rest of the screws and bolts into the model but it appears that I am not finding that precious window I need to do it. So I'll at least post the pieces I have made so far and just update the files as I finish it up. The only thing I don't have modeled are the brackets to mount the rollers on top of the stator pieces but I'm assuming that most people would just make some makeshift ones out of sheet metal anyway so I won't stress about that too much. I am not at my normal computer right now so I will post the existing part files tomorrow afternoon.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi Everyone,
As promised, here are the updated screenshots of my CAD drawing. I actually did find the time to put all the screws and nuts into it. I also converted all the parts to .sat files which can be ready by AutoCAD. if anyone has any specific preferences let me know and I'll convert them to another format.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Here are some more screenshots:
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Hello again,
I've attached a zip file with the CAD drawings of the relevant parts. Here are a few notes about the model.
- I designed the rotor cap for some custom arc magnets that Dan LaRochelle has on hand but because of the rotor hub's layered design, you can simply replace the Rotor Magnet disk with a different one that would fit your magnet assembly. Since I designed it to fit rotor magnets that are 0.5" tall, perhaps using a series of small neo arc magnets that have the same 4" radius as Dan's will be a sufficient. The original arc magnets that Dan has are 4" OD, 3.5" ID, and 0.25" square cross section so I needed to use two of them to equal the height of the stator magnets I chose.
- The Stators are made up of two neo magnets separated by a steel core to approximate the tapered shape of the original wooden Torbay model. The magnets pictured in the model can be purchased at www.kjmagnetics.com on the following pages:
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BX084 (Large front magnet)
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BC82 (Small back magnet)
As for the plastic parts, the largest piece is the base, which is 12" in diameter and made of a 1.25" thick piece of plastic. In order for this to fit onto most CNC mini mills, the base could be sectioned up into quarters to fit the size of the cutting table. The next largest part is the rotor cap, which is made out of 1" thick plastic, 8" in diameter. For this design, I changed the 360 degree spiral to a 150 degree spiral but I can easily change this if necessary. The rest of the rotor and stator pieces are made from 1" and 0.5" pieces of plastic. But you should be able to see how much you will need from the drawings. If not, let me know and I'll be glad to give you a more precise answer :-).
God Bless,
Jason O
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Jason,
Very nice drawings.
What format are the cad files? I don't recognize the .sat extension.
Jake
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I changed the 360 degree spiral to a 150 degree spiral but I can easily change this if necessary.
God Bless,
Jason O
Jason, are you sure about your measurement? In your image 0008.gif the cutout looks a whole lot closer to 120 degrees.
Cisco
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The stator arms will lock the rotor as it tries to fall down to ramp since the arm is bigger than the wheel. Other than that the drawings look great.
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Jason,
Very nice drawings.
What format are the cad files? I don't recognize the .sat extension.
Jake
Hi Jake
I used Autodesk Inventor 6 to make the CAD drawings. I can always convert them to dxf or dwg format if you would like.
God Bless,
Jason O
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I changed the 360 degree spiral to a 150 degree spiral but I can easily change this if necessary.
God Bless,
Jason O
Jason, are you sure about your measurement? In your image 0008.gif the cutout looks a whole lot closer to 120 degrees.
Cisco
Hi Cisco,
Good point, I meant to make that 150 but must have made it 120 by mistake. I'll fix it and repost the part.
God Bless,
Jason O
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The stator arms will lock the rotor as it tries to fall down to ramp since the arm is bigger than the wheel. Other than that the drawings look great.
Hi Duranza,
In my model, the rotor disk is rotating clockwise so the stator arms are lifted upwards after passing the start of the ramp. I do see your point though but this could be solved simply by the timing of the lifting roller. If I recall, I think that torbay's ramp also had a sharp edge on it also. But if this becomes a problem, or someone would like a slope or something put on that, I'll be happy to modify it though.
God Bless,
Jason O
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What Duranza pointed out is not true, the stator arms don't lift up at that point. They don't just automatically spring up when the ramp passes. They have to be pushed up by the roller, which comes a bit later.
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What Duranza pointed out is not true, the stator arms don't lift up at that point. They don't just automatically spring up when the ramp passes. They have to be pushed up by the roller, which comes a bit later.
Right. Thats why I mentioned the positioning of the roller and timing as important. I tried to arrange the pieces in the model to be close to how they need to be to work, but I'm sure that the pieces are not all perfectly alligned to make it run in the pictures.
God Bless,
Jason O
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so, after so many months no working model yet huh? Any genius there has thinked that the whole story is a hoax?
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As far as I remember, even the inventor never showed a fully working model!
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so, after so many months no working model yet huh? Any genius there has thinked that the whole story is a hoax?
It's not a hoax, even if you don't believe that Torbay has a working model, the principle itself is sound, as you can see from the many experiments people have been performing.
God Bless,
Jason O
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so, after so many months no working model yet huh? Any genius there has thinked that the whole story is a hoax?
It's not a hoax, even if you don't believe that Torbay has a working model, the principle itself is sound, as you can see from the many experiments people have been performing.
God Bless,
Jason O
Actually, this process is mostly normal. The community as a whole are working out the bugs and misunderstandings, which is taking the longest time.
This step [the development efforts] is critical to any design effort, and if you ask industry leaders in design and production, they can affirm that the road to taking an idea from paper to production can take years! So despite the fact it has taken so long, we are making progress, albeit slower than any of us would like...
This time needs to be invested so that a unified replication effort can take place- individualized 'free' replication often sees changes in design which alter the idea so that it no longer matches the original, and yet all failures of this new creation are attributed to the original; In turn the idea is deemed a 'proven hoax' and not pursued. So we just need to bear through this painstaking process of trial, error, and design so that the original idea gets its fair chance in the 'court' of public opinion.
God gave us the earth, and all the wonders within it to discover and learn from... Invention takes time - otherwise we would have been flying 6,000 years ago! ;D
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Well said Mica !!....I need strong magnets to continue ,I will never surrender, the principle is sound ....but that after the world soccer championship had passed and the 4 of july long weekeend!!,Enjoy. ::) ;D
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Yes, there is a lot to make one skeptical of the Torbay device, but what we DO know, the glimmers of truth that we have seen with our own eyes outweigh that. As yet, nobody here has built one and followed torbay's specifications to the letter, there has always been one thing or the other thing that someone has taken license with. Whether it be the stator magnets, or something else.
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sorry that i do no wright anymore but i'm getting a new place...
nobody see this video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid%3d2079810740321169814
aparenttly is a torbay's video , but the machine looks like perenvder magnetic motor but vertical.
torbay had a incident the day before the invention patent was presented. maybe thats why we are seen alot of this maquines.
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Maran the link doesn't work can you confirm the name a boolean search gave me no results.
Where's everybody??.....I'm waiting for stronger rigth type of magnets.....can't find what I need, for middle rotor,
anybody else is progressing?.Cheers
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Maran the link doesn't work can you confirm the name a boolean search gave me no results.
Where's everybody??.....I'm waiting for stronger rigth type of magnets.....can't find what I need, for middle rotor,
anybody else is progressing?.Cheers
Kukulcangod,
the link is here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2079810740321169814&q=transgenerador
There is another one. Use : transgenerador magnetico
to search in video.google.com
Aaron
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Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't that motor use compressed air to drive it. It's floating on magnets but driven by air, nothing magical about it. It's not like the torbay motor.
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These videos of motors are not torbay's prototypes.
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I agree with phil-uk. I keep seeing that video of an air motor and laugh. He says right up front it is running on air and magnetic bearings. It requires more power to compress the air than what could be output. :D :D :D
Now the Torbay motor is fasinating stuff. Haven't been disenchanted by it yet.
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These videos on Google are the videos
from Mr. Snyder and his air powered alternator and
his magnet motor, that only did run by "shaking" his hands
a bit...
but not the videos from Torbay.
If anybody finds still the old AVI videos from Torbay
on the net somewhere, please postthe location or upload them
over here.
Many thanks.
-
.
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Hi SGI,
welcome to the forum.
Well these videos were all done over here from
some members mostly from user "tao".
Too bad nobody from Argentinia has found
the real movies from Torbay when he had posted them ...
I really want to see the video, where he lets the motor
run on the lawn....
-
Just some more light on the subject ,
this can be found at
www.freeenergynews.com
I (Mark Goldes) spoke with Dr. Vesselin Noninski, Ph.D., of the New York Sofia Institute.
No prize was awarded by the Institute. He has not seen a working model of the motor.
Torbay traveled to the United States, and finally connected with Dr. Noninski at Bronx Community College. The demonstration, build from components gathered in the U.S., did not work. Torbay then went to Texas, under the hosting of a former instructor from the Bronx Community College. Noninski then flew to Texas under that assurances by Torbay that he would now see a working demonstration. However, the demo did not work either. Torbay blamed it on customs, saying that they must have impaired something in the process of clearing it through customs.
-
This is the link to read the article by Mark Australia:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Translation:territoriodigital.com:University_of_New_York_distinguishes_Argentine_scientist (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Translation:territoriodigital.com:University_of_New_York_distinguishes_Argentine_scientist)
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Hmm, I wonder if:
Dr. Vesselin Noninski
is our user Omnibus who had contact with Torbay...
Too bad Omnibus is not coming forward anymore with some
infos...
Also I had another look at Torbay?s website
and there is no video either, no change...
It seems he has gone "black projects" or
was forced to be silenced.
I guess it would be better to concentrate on our own
replications over here and not to wait until
Torbay or some friends of him come forward...
Please can the rebuilders again post over here, what their
latest status is and where their problems are still located with
their designs ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
-
Mr Goldess
I was told by a profesor at the bronx University that I was the second one after you inquiring about this event , and he don't recall a new york sophia institute,nor a walter dario torbay other than what you mentioned to him.....But again the confussion of the good profesor, due to the many campuses and events of the university would explain why not many know about it........In general sorry to say ,even the receptionist doesn't give the right extensions..and so forth.......another professor didn't returned calls about it, and Prof. Jose Luis Montenegro would be the one to ever know if this event really ever took place, cause he is in charge of the alternative energy programs for the bronx universitty .I think Prof Noninsky exists(what to believe at this point??)
I will attach a copy of a scientific paper of his but is very easy to find out via boolean search...
Nonetheless I think the project is real and in order for Mr Torbay to not suffer another painfully ridiculous exposition to the media , I believe he is taking his time ....or as Stefan said , gone black project ,a very big loss again for the ones in need of this technology ,for the good of it all.
But as I said nobody knows not even the media in Argentina at least 4 listed news sites from torbay's site know anything more about it.
I haven't tried the scientific organism of argentina is the last resort to now more about it(i'm not in argentina).....to me, is clear that the motor works and it was by a chance that we were able to know about it.....I hope Mr Torbay understands that this is and effort to help spread out word and principle in a positive way...I hope is not to late.
Cheers to all I think we should continue, is a sign that something really works here....usually scamers insists that it works ,they do not dissapear just like that...I'm still waiting for the right magnets.....Good luck to all.
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Omnibus did tell me, that he had told Torbay about this thread over here
and the Peswicki website about him.
This way Torbay would probably
had a look over here as well and would have posted himself some
comments to our work over here... so I guess he was forced to not speak
about it anymore or does not wish to get into the public with it any longer...
So I guess it is best to concentrate about the others people?s replications
and don?t wait for Torbay anymore.
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Sorry, i understand write english but i can?t write ...
He estado probando varios prototipos del motor y he llegado a la conclusi?n personal que no se trata de repulsi?n como se ha tratado de desinformar, se trata m?s bi?n de ATRACCION.
Adjunto una foto del ultimo prototipo que estoy realizando con este concepto.
Un gran abrazo y un saludo desde Chile
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Bao :
Me voy a tomar la libertad de traducir ay dar mi opinion
I'm going to take the liberty of translating and give my opinion
Sorry, i understand write english but i can?t write ...
He estado probando varios prototipos del motor y he llegado a la conclusi?n personal que no se trata de repulsi?n como se ha tratado de desinformar, se trata m?s bi?n de ATRACCION.
Adjunto una foto del ultimo prototipo que estoy realizando con este concepto.
Un gran abrazo y un saludo desde Chile
................read english but I can't write...
I've been testing several motor prototypes and I have came to the personal conclusion that is not repusion as it has beeing tried to disinform, but on the contrart is attraction.
A bug hug and greetings from Chile
Bao I don't think there's disinformation because the patent is clear for us to see and that wouldn't concern us anyway,because if we ever get disinform I think will be into make us believe that the motor is real but in reality it doesn't......
but to make this motor work I think is a different maybe valid appreciation which could help us to better understand its mechanism , I see repulsion all the way myself and the little attraction is maybe from the rising magnets,in that case to weak to be of concern .....Can you elaborate more on your picture ? or send some other clearer one? you can use babel fish to translate for example....Cheers ,keep the good work
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It looks like Torbay is updating his web site with a picture (maybe more to come?) of the New York meeting.
Here is a google translated web link: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fclub.telepolis.com%2FLICYTA%2FGALERIADEFOTOS.htm&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fclub.telepolis.com%2FLICYTA%2FGALERIADEFOTOS.htm&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8)
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Hello Everyone,
I found a video of Torbay;s working motor on Google Video!!! Check it out. I'm sold :o :)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6530358947613135242&q=transgenerador (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6530358947613135242&q=transgenerador)
Lets get building!!
God Bless,
Jason O
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Wow that's cool. :o
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Hello All,
For those of you with CNC capabilities, I will be glad to provide CAD drawings to build a Torbay motor. I have one model that is based on specific sized magnets (check my previous posts) but I can always scale the model to different sized magnets. Since the biggest hitch at the moment seems to be finding a suitable magnet for the rotor. I did some digging around on the internet and found some small neo arc magnets used for small motors that should work. We could just arrange them in a half-arc on the rotor to approximate the radial rotor magnet sufficiently. Here is the link to the page; it is clearance item M5005 in the table: http://www.engconcepts.net/List_Of_Clearance_Magnets.asp.
If we choose to go with these magnets (unless someone can find some better ones). I will need to rescale the CAD drawings I made to fit the arc magnets. This would work out nicely since it would significantly reduce the overall size of the model (and price for the stator magnets) to make it easy for people with small CNC mills to make all the parts.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Well i will be stuffed, I thought the video was never going to surface. How are all the projects that everyone started going?
Mark
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Hmm, I wonder why the motor stops and starts so fast ?
Is there no inertia ?
Also the upper platecap seems to have pretty much free space (gap)
until the stator rollers hit the platecap ?
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Hmm, I wonder why the motor stops and starts so fast ?
Is there no inertia ?
Also the upper platecap seems to have pretty much free space (gap)
until the stator rollers hit the platecap ?
Hi Stefan,
I was asking myself the same question about the start/stop thing. I have three ideas about why it may be doing that.
1. It is geared to the little generator which probably requires a significant amount of torque to turn given the gear ratio.
2. There may be a lot of friction in the rotor axle and since it is spinning at a low RPM, it doesn't take long for it to stop.
3. Since it is powered by the magnetic fields, when the movable stator is taken away the rotor immediately hangs on the existing stator fields rather than coasting to a stop.
About the lifting stator arms, I did notice that sometimes they would pop up and fall right back down, but other times, they would stay up and be pushed down by the rotor cap. That shows to me that there is not a ton of interaction magnetically between the stator magnets themselves. Another thought is that the sheer weight of the stators might be helping them come back down too. One thing is for sure, the gaps between the magnets are much larger than I thought; there must be at least an inch gap between those stators, which, using ceramic magnets would be plenty of room to ease them back down without too much hassle.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Is there a way to download that video? I want to analyze the frames but cannot handle that Google Video Format.
Thanks,
Eric.
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shame they didn't show under the table.....
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Hi all
Eric, you can change the video format by simply changing the name from ?TRANSGENERADOR ICYTI 2.gvi? to ?TRANSGENERADOR ICYTI 2.avi? and then use VirtualDub to analyse it frame by frame.
Pasi1(michaeltech99)
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Eric, you can change the video format by simply changing the name from ?TRANSGENERADOR ICYTI 2.gvi? to ?TRANSGENERADOR ICYTI 2.avi? and then use VirtualDub to analyse it frame by frame.
Thanks Micael.
Works great.
Regards,
Eric.
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Hi friends,
Another way to download the videos from google is to using vdownloader
http://www.enriquepuertas.com/wp-content/files/vdownloader.zip
You paste the url of video ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6530358947613135242&q=transgenerador ) and click download
It work with youtube videos as well.
Another video of torbay
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1296989995550439375&q=transgenerador
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I donÂ’t want to be a skeptic but after thinking about the video and watching it many times I found the video of the running motor a little puzzling in the fact that I have worked with small motors, drive lines, etc for some time and when the unit starts to turn it seems to almost start like there is a switch under the sliding magnet and the rotor is driven by a separate force. If I wasnÂ’t tied up with my Tesla experiments I would fire up the lathe and start on the new cad drawings posted here. Guess IÂ’ll just have to wait until I can build my own. I am in hopes that this is the real deal but as quoted:  ÂÂ
shame they didn't show under the table.....
Or better yet build the base from plexiglass.
Camster
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I donÂ’t want to be a skeptic but after thinking about the video and watching it many times I found the video of the running motor a little puzzling in the fact that I have worked with small motors, drive lines, etc for some time and when the unit starts to turn it seems to almost start like there is a switch under the sliding magnet and the rotor is driven by a separate force. If I wasnÂ’t tied up with my Tesla experiments I would fire up the lathe and start on the new cad drawings posted here. Guess IÂ’ll just have to wait until I can build my own. I am in hopes that this is the real deal but as quoted:
shame they didn't show under the table.....
Or better yet build the base from plexiglass.
Camster
Hi Camster,
Yeah the video is definitely not skeptic proof. The thick base the stators are mounted on has always made me wonder if he could be hiding some things underneath to turn the rotor. But I don't believe this is the case after thoroughly studying the principle of operation, which seems to be sound in my mind. The other thing is that his earlier models were built on much flatter bases (like the one he made on the top of a CD). If it can be done that easily, we all can do it. Right now, I'm also trying to think of the best "duck tape & super glue" way of making a model so that those of us who don't have access to fancy machine tools to also build one. My guess is that most if not all the pieces could be made with a jig saw. I will also make scale templates of all the pieces so we can download them and cut directly from that in addition to the CAD models.
God Bless,
Jason O
P.S. Can anyone think of a simple way to make the ramp for the rotor cap? From looking at the videos, it looks like Torbay made his out of a strip of thin plywood.
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Just a thought: Perhaps using materials in model airplane construction could be used to make the rotor with the ramp. A ribbed circle built from balsa wood capped with balsa sheet to follow the contour of the rib design , like the construction of a wing on a model airplane, the balsa sheeting should be flexible enough to have a changing slope based on the rib design. Balsa wood can be made very strong with a coat of fiberglass resin and would make the rotor very strong. Not duck tape but close, all products can be purchased at hobby shops and Canadian Tire at least for the rotor. :)
Camster ÂÂ
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SORRY TO TELL BUT I keep saying that this group will not go to any place, we look like a group of dog, every body for himself. If we can organisate we will succede. I don't know if you known but argentinians made a lot of inventions, and that country is not USA o Germany, it's argentina, a 3rd world country; somebody known why??? only because we don't have a lot to work with (material, money, equipment, etc).
I'm personally sure that this video probe the principle it's right!!!!! but I'm also sure that in the future somebody, maybe we, will be able to maximase the energy that this type of device will be able to generate.
If we device in groups we can reduce time and money in this analisis, one group can make the small generator with cd, because it's cheap and ease the parts can be cut with a knife or cessors.
REMEMBER THAT MAY NOT BE USE A LOT OF TOOLS. THINK INVENTIVELY
GOOD BLESS YOU ALL
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The thing that worries me with this device is it should work. However I feel it failed to work in NY for two reasons.
1. The battery went flat (I know thats synical but I have humor)
2. Like all the devices of this nature before, the magnets lost their power.
I am sure someone will replicate it, but the real test is how long it can opperate under load before the magnets give in.
Kind Regards
Mark
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cesarc, the .avi file downloaded from the Google video is some strange kind of .avi and cannot be imported into the VirtualDub. I tried severl ways of "repairing" it (GVideoFix, Riva FLV Encoder, SUPER, Total Video Converter etc.) but noting worked. Any ideas?
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The thing that worries me with this device is it should work. However I feel it failed to work in NY for two reasons.
1. The battery went flat (I know thats synical but I have humor)
2. Like all the devices of this nature before, the magnets lost their power.
I am sure someone will replicate it, but the real test is how long it can opperate under load before the magnets give in.
Kind Regards
Mark
I wonder if all of those devices that had problems with the magnets 'giving out' had this in common: That they had at least some magnets crashing into (instead of away from) a repelling magnetic field, which may have stressed the domain within the magnet? I would guess that designs of magnetic motors that have repelling fields that strongly clash, or that occur extremely close, causing deep repelling forces to the opposing magnet, will have magnet weakness eventually.
Liberty
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Hi crazykevin,
I saw the video with vlc media player that is free. Download it from http://www.videolan.org
I don't know if you need a codec too.
Try with vlc, if it doesn't work try installing different codecs.
Thanks.
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The thing that worries me with this device is it should work. However I feel it failed to work in NY for two reasons.
1. The battery went flat (I know thats synical but I have humor)
2. Like all the devices of this nature before, the magnets lost their power.
I am sure someone will replicate it, but the real test is how long it can opperate under load before the magnets give in.
Kind Regards
Mark
Hi Mark,
Omnibus, the professor who saw the non-working model of the Torbay motor clearly stated why the model didn't run. According to his account of what Torbay said, that particular model was created by someone here in the United States and they magnetized the magnets in the stators in the wrong direction so that the north pole was on the top side instead of the side facing the rotor disk.
As for the repelling fields running down, I personally believe that this won't be an issue as long as you don't stress the fields (a.k.a bucking repelling fields together hard). If you are using smooth transitions from one repelling field to the other as in the Torbay design, then the stresses will be much, much less. Torbay did claim that he had a model that has been running for over a year now since he filed for his patent back in 2004. Now, I can't back that claim since I haven't seen it personally which I why I am trying to get a strong replication effort together to try this out. We can talk about how it can and can't work until the cows come home but we will never know for sure until we try it for ourselves.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi crazykevin,
I saw the video with vlc media player that is free. Download it from http://www.videolan.org
I don't know if you need a codec too.
Try with vlc, if it doesn't work try installing different codecs.
Thanks.
Hi, I have downloaded and converted the Torbay video to avi. I'll e-mail it to Stefan and have him post it here.
God bless,
Jason O
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Keep up the good work guys , you will be remembered as well as one of the few good people helping to develop something really good,making history in the process, making something that is not going to be forgotten, this is one of the few if not the only one self aware forums making a real effort towards the goal of making our individual lives better, reasuring our very survival,bringing individual happiness and prosperity.Now, the only thing I'm really curious about is about who is going to be the first in achieving a working model, after Walter Dario Torbay whom by the way sounds very sincere in his argentinian accent, about his invention ,I think we should be thankful for leting this invention be somehow available, at least in his website that's the idea.........I wouldn't worry about him going black project after all he has to benefit somehow ,don't you think??, everybody wants to rule the world , again I think truly we all can rule the world being truly free of dependecies from huge selfish interests and this is the first step.
Jdo3000 excuse me please if I don't remember exactly how you would like us to cooperate o please refer me to the posting were you explain how, Personally I appreciated what you have done taking the time of making your designs in Cad and so forth, I don't have a design program but I'll be glad to be a part of a combined effort to be one of the few making a real difference ,and to achieve faster results and to prevent that this invention ends in the pits of the forgotten files. I'm sure everybody appreciates the many invidividual benefits this type of technology offers,we could be independent but still able to fairly exchange our specialized services with each other,as costs of freight for food become cheaper,or because we will be able to go anywhere you want with an on demand hydrogen producer car, or a private VTOL airplane,achieving 300mph not worrying about energy comsumption, or being able to live selfsustained in any part of the world, in a huge house not worrying about energy production or to purify water and air, heat or air conditioner,to power communication stations of unlimited range and the best of all being able to experiment with high energy and exotic technologies..........economy?? don't worry it would adapt itself, on that one I whish someone could give suggestions.........for one I would prefer to buy land and produce food from the dessert, permanently irrigated , and grow cattle as well, a more natural way , or to process garbage for profit ,..........I think the possibilities are endless if we achieve freedom for each single man on earth, and abolishing the power of a few, Best of lucks.
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Your ideals and sentiments reflect many others here,
However the Torbay device is a dead duck at this stage.
He may appear sincere but has been very liberal with the truth when reporting to his homeland media.
I do not wish to dampen anyones ideals, but the video raises more questions than it answers. Why didnt it work in NY if its such a simple device.
It is obvious the work output is know where near what is claimed possible.
I wont be posting again on this device until there has been an independent validation of it working.
Kind regards
Mark
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hello i am martin from argentine, and this motor is very good. i still research the motor.
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Hi Martin,
have you seen the motor running personally ?
Did you meet Torbay and had a look at the motor ?
-
Hi Stefan
I don?t see personally the motor, i live in other city, i call to the phone number and the line is death, maybe now the phone number is other, i don?t know.
sory for my english is not good ;D. Thank you.
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Hi El_moncholo,
can you please drive by atthe weekend to Torbay?s address
and ask him please to show you his motor and take a videocamera
with you and film it ?
Would be great, if you could post a few videos
or at least a few pictures and see the machine live
for yourself and verify it...
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
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Hello,
in the picture you can see the wheel (red) of the rotor and the beginning and end of the ramp (blue).
Are the placement right ???
thanks,
Mani
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That appears to be a different version of the Argentine motor than what I have seen in the video. It seems in your version you would use much friction to hold all of those blocks in the different positions other than toggled up or down. The less contact of physical surfaces the more power out is available.
To some other posters I would say, Even if the Torbay motor was a weakly running one, any self-runner has a coefficient of power in to power out of infinity.
-
Delleman in my opinion, the wheel works better if lift up the magnet closer to the forward moving end of the rotor magnet, meaning it has to be placed one more space/magnet behind, is like a zipper action, or like a mower cuttin and flattening the jungle of magnetic lines leaving you a clear trial to walk free of obstacles,inmediately in front of you and automatically, I can avoid to also compare with a dunky following the carrot ;D, letting the half moon magnet "fall " into the gap pushed by the rejection of the other magnets which by the way are about 3 against one force, one being that empty space or lifted magnet ,as per the ramp has to be in equivalent place allowing space for the magnet to rise as well as living the one prior to this also up ,in a different degree of course but that will make that rotor move more freely ,at least for me it did worked that way, and fast......now when putting the top I realize the force was simply not enough ,assisted by hand showed that it wanted to move ,rotate, my design is not that stiff despite modifications , but I feel encouraged about it.Great drawing by the way, Cheers
-
Hi kukulcangod,
thanks for your info.
Is this now right ?
-
Hi Delleman,
have a look at the 2 GIF animations
in:
www.overunity.com/torbay
directory.
It seems your right stators are too far away from the rotor and
one one stator at a time is only up and not more stators as in your case...
-
hi Stefan & thanks,
Then there is not a spiral ramp ?
But some pics on this tread shows them.
Than is this right ?
-
Hi Delleman,
yes, now it seems to be correct.
What you have shown is the TOP VIEW.
Now if you add a SIDE VIEW you can add the topcap lid,
where the stators are holded down and only one stator is allowed
to move up via the ramp in the top lidcap.
Thanks for the drawing.
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Has anyone taken a look at the Mikell device sight? It seems to me that the idea of a barber shop sign, made into a donut might serve the same purpose as the mechanism for raising and lowering the stators in the Torbay machine. If you made it all 3-d by making the outer ring a donut with magnets around it, would not this serve the same purpose as lifting the stators individualy and at the same time have the extra mass to help push them down? :o
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it seems obvious that there is some kind of wave action in the lifting of the stators that is going to make this thing work or not. somebody out there has got to be able to figure this out. i haven't been able to yet. but i think somebody will if we keep trying. there are alot more people following the site than are contributing. maybe we should all start contributing instead of watching and humanity can benifit, instead of watching so we can make ourselves rich. think of the marketing opportunities alone! gosh 1% of that ought to do ya. ;)
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Super..I saw the site about the Mikell device I think I understand what your idea is, The spiral geometry is excellent in this world for several aplications, but also the mechanism would have to be redesigned in order to move such donut, there's where I thim the problem will be if it absorbs to much energy.
About riches ,I'm curious , how do you thing money can be made with this invention?, I don't see anyone getting rich ,but I imagine every body getting the freedom they deserve in relation to our way of life, if the machine is not "regulated" by our goverments.
Anyway is good idea for making this device better, something to consider for the future, on the other hand in the website says that the Mikell device was a boy's dream, and that it doesn't work........again I think it would be brilliant to be able to adapt the donut into the design of the Torvay motor,Can you send a design a drawing sometimes many of us can't clearly fig out what others can, .Cheers
-
kukul,
thesite also says that it is now owned by the U.S.A. i wonder why? :-\
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it seems to me that by using the donut you acomplish, not only the up and down of the toray devise but you also have an in and out movment of the magnetic field . this could have a dramatic effect on the amount of effort it takes to lower the stator. it also seems that the mass of the donut, once started in motion could impact this as well. i realise that it would take extra effort to get it going but if it is spinning then the mass would seem to help. i might be all wrong on this. after all i am certainly not an expert!
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hello to all,
what do you think about the drawing ?
I maked the rotor N-pole more than 180? !
I think it is better and we get more power.
-
@Dellemann
looks now very nice,
yes, this way it could probably work more powerful.
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hello to all,
what do you think about the drawing ?
I maked the rotor N-pole more than 180? !
I think it is better and we get more power.
Hi Dellemann,
Very nice drawings :-). On the surface, it would seem like a great idea to simply extend the length of the rotor to get more torque, but actually. there is a limit to this torque, the longer the pole face of the magnet, the more the flux will tend to concentrate around the edges. The flux coming out of the radial rotor magnet will not distribute evenly around the circle, what you will end up seeing is that it will start to behave like a regular magnet with a rounded over pole rather than a magnet with a bloch wall that follows the curvature of the magnet. My personal belief in this case is that you will get more power out of a smaller length rotor than a longer because the flux is all concentrated in one general area. Plus, since we are all here to replicate the original design, It would be a good idea to stick to the original specifications before we try to start modifying/improving it.
God Bless,
Jason O
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thanks Jason & Stefan !
Did somebody on this forum build a prototyp yet ?
How are the resutats ?
thanks,
Mani Dellemann
-
thanks Jason & Stefan !
Did somebody on this forum build a prototyp yet ?
How are the resutats ?
thanks,
Mani Dellemann
Hi Mani,
A few people have built partial prototypes and one person has claimed to have it working but we have yet to create a nice, public proof-of-concept design that works. I am still interested in doing a replication and would like to work with anyone who has access to CNC machines. I have an existing CAD model which I can easily modify to fit a number of standard magnet sizes that I have been looking at. If anyone is interested in seriously persuing this, I am ready to move forward.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi Jason,
nice to hear that you are interested in building the motor and that you have the CAD plans.
Did you ask some CNC firm how much it will cost for making the parts ?
Where did you come from ? I'm from Austria
thanks,
Mani
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Hi Mani,
I never bothered to ask a CNC firm about it because I am pretty certain I would be unwilling to pay the machining and labour costs. But I do know that there are a lot of CNC hobbiests out there who may be interested in trying this out. The nice thing is that most of the pieces are small enough that I can make it from scraps rather than paying a ton of money for the materials. I'm from the US
God Bless,
Jason O
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The heat has passed.............no results from no one, no replies but mine..........is that the difference between the inventor and the other 99??.
But is truly dissapointing that people like omnibus acted so secretive about this , he gets anoyed at Stefan's excitement about a discovery,because he released his comments to us, I don't see the harm, unless you have something really dark to hide....Mr Jekill???
........A truly dark nature is what I sense, that's your real message after all of this?, when you could've had the recognition as well as being one of the few great men with the guts to help expose this invention?, to be humble enough to give us some light to us like children curious and avid of knowledge.
Great men don't behave in such way.......and then stops completely his input....because of a minor can we even say... "offense"???
If you pretended that your emails would stop me from going to the bronx you failed miserably.........
At least you could've have the guts to explain to the pure of heart why the information couldn't be released
No matter if the impure is lurking in the dark waiting to exploit the fruits of the genius....for ill intentions can't never succeed in anyway in the end.
....Do you truly believe for a second that you can make profit out of this discovery??....sure!! if it belongs to the goverment,but what about the people ??
....Can you live with the idea that you contributed to enslave us even more being so close to achieve freedom from pollution and destruction of our environment??
Have you taken a look about what the goverments are doing all over the place?...Alaska for one recent example??.........
No one in the Bronx had heard of Torvay, no one, also the encouragement came from the same forum in argentina proclaiming the invention worked, is just a 3rd world scam...I know the ways, I came from one.............I live nearby the university as well.
Live well and prosper....if you can.
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2kukulcangod:
we should be thankful to this community for inspiring hope. I have forsaken 3 working days to follow this discussion from Kiev, Ukraine and these have been by far most exciting days in my life!
And most surprisingly -- I was AFRAID that down page 79 there would be a SOLUTION. but thank God there's none (so far), and now I LIVE to find it. I am most grateful to those who conceal the truth -- they give me a chance to discover it.
There is little excitement comparable to the joy of pure scientific discovery, and I am now blessed to embark on this quest; I welcome everyone who wishes to join, I challenge everyone who is already walking the steps of Torvay.
The torch of hope is burning and no governments, no conspiracies, no oil moguls have 1 per cent power that our inspired curiosity and imagination employ, and with this power we shall liberate our minds for new exciting discoveries and liberate free energy to make Earth a better, cleaner and safer place.
This is my free energy manifesto
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That's the way to react!!!........out of the defeat or negative , we musst learn and grow stronger........
Yes Voly the invention has posibilities, let's keep going , the problem I have is poor construction and week magnets, I'm starting from scratch again but work keeps me away from finishing is nerve raking.
Your time is not wasted, certainly, I hope the intensity you used to read help you to achieve great results.
I must redesign my flywheel , righ now I must keep everything clean around here so I have to stop my job unfortunately as I stated before...........
So far to my understanding the motor behaves as said by Torbay, but until finishing one we will not know the truth.
Good luck
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Hi All,
I've started with my replication of torbays perm magnet motor, after seeing his video, it seemed plausible, heres a couple of pics so far,
note ive just started making it.
Ive also forgot to mention that as passing another magnet in the two armatures, they did flip up.
Thanks,
Mrd
-
heres an update, I'm progressing quite nicely, the armature parts have all been cut and ready to be installed, I was only able to put 4 on, will do the rest later, Ive also installed the rotor base.
cheers,
Mrd
::)
-
NICE WORK MRD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe
-
I must say you got really ingenius at using readily available non magnetic materials, fabulous it looks neat
I'm curious about the center piece though, where did you get it? or what is it?
Is great to see someone posting pics
Cheers
-
Hi guys,
I had the material already from a previous project i was working on, I actually built Steven Kundel Magnet motor, but this required voice coil.
I ended up using solenoids for my first prototype, Heres his website at:- http://kundelmotor.com/
The materials can all be purchased at your local hardware store, thats where I got most of it.
The things I had to get else where like hobby store was the aluminium tubing, and the plastic bit is from cutting board material and can be obtained from cheap shop or cooking section.
I used large whole saw about 125mm across and cut it out of the cutting board. Ive been thinking of otherways to construct this motor, but ill stay with this for the moment. If i get it to work i'll build my next one differently. It takes time to cut all the aluminium and drill holes and such, but this is all part of the fun.....lol
I'll keep you posted.
Cheers,
Mrd
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Very nice MRD10,
please keep up the good work and please keep us informed
about your progress.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
-
Hey Stefan,
Thanks. I've been seeing your name on other websites, if thats you that is...lol
Jean naudins I think. Good to meet you.
I will keep posting my progress
Ciao,
Mrd
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I must say you got really ingenius at using readily available non magnetic materials, fabulous it looks neat
I'm curious about the center piece though, where did you get it? or what is it?
Is great to see someone posting pics
Cheers
it's from a nylon cutting board.
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just lookin through google videos and found this, looks like it uses the same principle as torbays device
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6530165466308380947
skip past to minute 7, to see it and the explanation
looks pretty simple to make, gonna go put it together and see :)
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@morpheous1777,
Don't waste time with that. The person holds the stator in his hand and thus imparts energy to the ball. This experiment has nothing to do with Torbay's, if Torbay's is real. A better experiment than this is Wesley Snyder's which we discussed extensively somewhere in this forum. Wesley promised to show a video whereby he won't hold the stator and the rotor in his hands but will suspend them on a stand. Unfortunately, he has not shown this until now.
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I thought it looked similar, horseshoe shaped ring of magnets, circular magnet, etc...
but i just read the replication attempt, so that's another one down :'(
has anyone actually got a replication of torbays device workin yet ??
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Hello All,
I have been hard at it with Torbays Replication, here you can see that im almost finished.
I should have it done by next week and run a test to see if it works.
From just placing my hand on the disk with a magnet on it, the other magnets do flip up, and it seems to want to move, again i'll have to wait till I get the magnets on the rotor.
The pics show the rotor, and without.
The rotor will be level with the magnets, I just put it there to show how it would look.
::)
Mrd
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Hey Mrd,
Looks great! Keep up the good work :-)
God Bless,
Jason O
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Thanks Jason, When I'm done and hopefully get it working, ill post a video.
Until then take care.
Cheers,
;D
Mrd
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Great work MRD,
looking forward to your tests.
Keep the videos coming.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
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Nice device Mrd! :)
Please post a video, it will be useful in every case.
Wish you success,
Greg
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Looks great. I can hardly wait to see the results. Regardless the results, it's valuable research!
Paul Lowrance
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Thanks Guys,
I can't wait myself. With other commitments, I have to wait.
It takes me about 5 to 6 hours of thought and rework at times to
get it to the stage you want. (This is one night a week) It really goes with that saying, 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration.
I sympathize with inventors everywhere, as I understand how it must take them years to get there
ideas onto working model. And at times they might get completely unexpected results, as what they wanted might spawn something different alltogether = accidental find.....lol
Anyway I'll keep you guys posted.
Thanks Again for all your encouraging comments.
Cheers,
Dom ;D
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If you do happen to get this working, or if ANYONE happens to get a permanent motor/movement without input, or input with greater output (mainly a magnet motor or working free energy device) I'd be more than willing to take every specific size, shape and part of the device and model it out in 3d studio max (some of my work is here: http://visualorgasmness.50megs.com/pmm/ ) As you can see I can put a lot of things I imagine into 3d and am familliar with the program (Im now working on cars and humans, a free energy device would be basic shapes, meaning very easy to model)
I'm just waiting for the day where someone, ANYONE figures it out and wishes for a step by step how to with a parts list for the world to replicate. I'd be more than willing to make a 3d movie of the thing being built, in my opinion, it would be quite an honor to make such a video, and you bet your ass, with all the shifty shit our government does I would NOT want my name on it. I would just want to get the parts, get the specific instructions (Free Energy for Dummies, anyone? :)) and get the video and tutorial uploaded for the world to see. Then work on my own device as well.
I have seen some of you on this forum say you have made a working device. Im offering you the chance to show people this from every angle, clearer than any conventional camera, and all you need is the desire to share this with the world for free, and to supply me with the correct sizes and geometry of all parts. 3d studio can do the rest. Are you up for the challenge or would you rather "shelf" it and let the world go to hell?
Screw patents, screw money. I'm not that scientific, but I love modelling in 3d. And I'd be more than willing to help someone interested in this same goal, of revealing the "secret" for all the world to see. Email me if you think you like my idea and think I could model a working device that you could explain: stonrman401@gmail.com
If you at least give me a general look at things, I could tell you whether or not I could do it (I probably can model anything you can dream of, it just might take some time)
Remember, 3d studio can make every angle in pictures, and in video. Every video game character or 3d animated character youve seen can be done in 3d studio. A free energy device, could be a cinch, provided accurate measurements, angles, and all information completely fail proof and correct... email me if you think you got what it takes!
And Im looking forward to the video release of this! It looks like you did some hard work, man. Good luck.
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Hi Everyone,
I have some good news, this I believe does truly work, I found out tonight, by doing some experimenting, that the magnets are only half the story, the rest is the mechanics. You need to get this right for this motor/generator to work. I've done some configurations on the rotor, and found that the one in the pic seems to work quite well.
How this works is as the first magnet on the rotor, (I'm referring to the one closest to the armatures, approaches the armature magnet, it needs to be lifted up in advance, while the one behind needs to be forced down, thats why torbay has that disc ontop, which pushes the magnets back down. You can see in his video that he has a roller which is slightly infront of the rotor magnet, this forces the issue for the armature magnet to lift. Anyway I found this out while playing with the one i built. All I need to do know is finish the mechanics, so to lift the armature magnet in advance, in effect its like a wave, that never rests.
The springs in my unit should push the armature magnets down suffice to say i did this advance bit with my hand and the rotor spun all the way. even if i get a slow rotation i know im on the right track, It just needs that roller to push up in advance, its all to do with timing.
Ive posted latest pic, when i get the roller worked out, and hopefully ill have rotation and a nice video pic coming.
Cheers,
Mrd
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Hi Everyone,
I'm still working on the mechanism, this is the critical part, I have to make some modifications to my setup.
Will keep you all posted on my progress.
Never give up, Learn from what you see.
bye for now
Mrd
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I found out tonight, by doing some experimenting, that the magnets are only half the story, the rest is the mechanics. You need to get this right for this motor/generator to work.
Good observation, I totally agree. The machanics as least as important as the magnets themselves. Without the correct mechanics things usually don't work.
Wish you good work! :)
Gregory
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Hi Again All,
I've built a permanent magnet motor before and the materials I used for that are being used for this project. If your interested check out stephen kundel on google.
Regarding Torbays setup, Its definitely to do with mechanics, basically you want one armature in front to flip up and the armature behind to flip back down as to push the rotor magnet to the next point, and thats what i believe torbay has acheived.
I need to rebuild my mechanism, as i want to do it his way, rather than what Ive done in the following pics, I noticed that my alum flaps were to short therefore it wasnt activating the magnet armatur at the front at the correct time, rather than pursue this avenue, which would probably work, i chose to change it alltogether.
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:o !!!WOW!!! :o
I am quite impressed by your latest addition to the design. When will a video be availible for us to see the devices current progress and abilities? How far does it turn? Does the wheel arm have any problems lifting the stator magnets? If so I believe by extending the strike plates out further from the fulcrum will help greatly but you must make sure the short side of the stator lifting lever is always hevier then the strike plate end. Your design and rapid prototyping is breath taking. You appear to be very close now...
~Dingus
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Hi Dingus,
give me just a little more time, i shouldn't be too far off. It's only been 3 to 4 weeks, one night a week that Ive been building this.
The rotor wheel arm pushes them down quite easily, with almost no friction, as long as the wheel on the end is running freely. And also what makes them easier to manipulate is because of the ramping up/down on the aluminium plates, youll notice this in the current pics.
What I have in mind there is to extend the ramp from both side, but bend it to where I want it to trigger and not to trigger the armature magnets.
This I believe will either make this thing work or not. On another note the springs underneath which sorry i removed in current pics, im hoping will be enough to push the ones behind back down, If that doesnt work then ill have to make a top disc like in torbays model, Anyway further testing to reveal this soon.
Its been some thinking behind what i'm doing, thats why it takes awhile. Again the strike plates need to be changed, Ive come up with an idea, which will make em in effect longer and therefore should be easier to adjust.
As i'm progressing, I find that changes are necessary, because current design isnt adequate to make it a self runner, Even at one stage there I thought of giving up, but something tells me to push on, and not to give up that easily, really this is a proof of concept design, so i'm going to make every attempt to finish it, even if it takes me some months to do it. Thanks to Walter, he has done something which if works like i think it does has managed a remarkable feat of engineering.
Be assured that I will send a video on my next incarnation.....lol
Sorry if I'm all over the place, its 4 in the morning and I couldn't sleep. ;D
Cheers,
Mrd
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Oh I should also mention, and this is referring to my previous post which is above the pics, After thinking about it, I'm going to stick with current design.
Rgds,
Mrd
:D
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Mrd,
Thanks again for the rolling updates. I sit waiting in anticipation for your next update.
~Dingus
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Mrd,
Your creativity is fascinating, I like it. ;)
This is the way where things can possibly work. Before you, I didn't trust in the original design. But now I think you're on the right track, and it can be done. Please, do not give up before your design isn't fully completed!
Well done, so far... Be the magnets with you! :D
Thanks,
Greg
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Thanks Guys
Mrd ;)
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Hi Everybody!
It took a long time but i finally managed to read the whole thread. It seems we have had a lot of disapointments along the way. very frustrating.
Anyway, now Mrd is posting pic's it certanly is more interesting. And in the same vein, i have diecided to pick up my screwdriver and have a go as well. I will post pics just as mrd has. Since pics like this help everybody, regardless of whether it works or not, the construction techniques used may well inspire other people to have a go.
With mrd's ramps in mind, i have modified my original idea for the construction of the lifters. i have made them easy to modify in the event that mrd has success with his ramps.
my style of construction is similar to mrd's, which i belive is what we want, a desgin that anybody with a kitchin table and screwdriver can replicate. i willpost a few pics in a couple of days, i am busy making the components at present out of loads of brass terminal block.
Keep tunned in!
Craigy
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Hi Craigy,
Thanks man.
I do believe that this will work, I'll confirm this to you, see as I pushed down each arm the rotor magnet would spin round, so in effect what we need to study and get right, is to let a mechanical version of your hand do the work.
The only things which may fail me is the springs, failing this, I will have to make a top disc which will keep the arms down and raise only the ones that need to be raised. Each week I hit this with enthusiasm, At a point last week though I was thinking maybe the perm magnet motor thing should be abandoned, and I should purse something like steven marks torroidal transformer, but I decided I would do this when ive exhausted myself on this project.
What makes this believable to me is that you need to move a magnetic field or collapse it so you dont have lockup, once this is acheived , you will have it running. When I saw torbays video at first, I thought wow, its only the magnets doing the work, but this is not the case.
After seeing someones 3d graphics and the actual unit pics which show it pulled apart, then I started to understand abit more.
It's only when i built mine, which of course is not finished yet, Did I start to understand even more, i.e timing the magnetic move so the rotor magnet would flip to the next spot. The top disk and the roller on the side of the rotor are the key to the whole operation, the magnets are just being manipulated, if you like by the mechanical motion.
I have other committements which are of everyday life, but I made a promise to myself, that once a week I'll dedicate some of my short human life time to try and better understand that there is more out there that needs to be explored. For awhile now I have been interested in free energy, it's just something that has captivated me and given me focus in life.
My next installement will be the strike plates, I will be making these longer as already mentioned, I can see as I do it with my hand where it should be activating, and currently it falls short of the mark.
The only way we truly are going to push forward is to build and get our hands dirty, and observe what we create, don't be discouraged and dissapointed if first it doesnt work, remember most of our techinology today has arrived to us by mistake or by sheer persiverance.
And remember another thing, don't burn yourself out, take timeout and think about your next move, patience is a virtue.
bye for now
Mrd
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MRD What is your location?
Europe? US?
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Hi Dingus,
Australia.
;)
Mrd
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Hi Dingus,
Australia.
;)
Mrd
Damn...
I am quite excited about your work.
Not fly to Australia excited, but excited none the less...
I believe with the right mechanical accuation of the stator arms your device will work.
If I were you I would do some research on taking full advantage of those fulcrums, and
take all exact measurements of dimensions and weights of each component and run some
physics simulations in a simulator like solidworks.
Your already very close now its all about great mechanic timing and finesse.
GOOD LUCK!
I'm cheering for ya...
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Hi Dingus,
Thanks.
I was working on it today, and have discovered that instead of using a wheel and strike plates, I have done away with it alltogether and put a magnet ontop of the arm which pulls the stator arms up, this works even better, I tried using magnets to push the others down, but this would be better done mechanically with inert components, I'm having success as I go along, I'll make short video tonight to show you how the rotor turns as the magnet which I have taped pulls the stator magnets up.
experiment...experiment ....experiment, I believe people like Nikola Teslae were doers, and thats why he like some others had success.
I'm finding new ways, even better ways to do things, it takes time, but once you hit it, its all worth it.
Kind Regards
Mrd
;)
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Hi Guys,
I've uploaded video, this will give you an idea of how it works.
Kind Regards,
Mrd
;)
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MRD,
FACINATING VIDEO!!!!! HOW MUCH LONGER TILL YOU GET ALL THE WHEELS AND RAMPS FINISHED? I THINK IF I WERE YOU I'D HAVE TP QUIT MY JOB AND WORK ON THIS 24 HOURS A DAY TILL I GOT FINISHED. I DON'T THINK I COULD THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE. HECK I GUESS I ALREADY HAVE THAT PROBLEM.
LOL
SAM
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Hi Sam,
I'm thinking about how to best build the top ramp disc,(like what material id be using, and config). I can't say for sure when ill be finished, because i want to get it to a state of a self runner. Im hoping though at the latest about next two weeks.
I know what you mean, I wish I could quit my mundane job, and do this free energy stuff for a living, there's nothing more satisfying in building something, that defies all logic, or for that reason goes against principles learnt at school. Theres stuff that they don't teach you at school.
This site is awesome because it brings people together, with ideas. As I mentioned before, experimenting like a kid helps, if you decide it wont work before you begin, then youve just shot yourself in the foot.
I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.
May the magnet force be with me and All of you too......lol
;)
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Great stuff Mrd!
The video is great, i a quite a long way behind you but i have started the metal bashing and i am a week away from getting to the twiddle mode where i can experiment in depth with you. I like the magnet asist idea and like your self i have been thinking about construction of the top hat ramp.
If we copy the original design i thought that perhaps the ramp could be made using wood. Two circles, one complete the other has a cutout where the ramp is. The 2 are glued together and the ramp formed using wood filler, or fibre glass resin. With the resin, you would only need to hold the wheel at an angle and pour the resin into the ramp space (cardboard around the edge to keep profile) , thus the resin would settle to the horizontal forming a nice ramp. In my mind at least!
Or. levers..since you have the magnets on a seesaw, perhaps you could hav another arm that would push the the cold end up. ( cold end because no magnet forces should be there). This would mean a long arm, that would have to roll right around the outside. (The lever it pushes up could also be double in length to half the force required to move it). I assume that we would get more mecanical advantage to help us put the magnets down again.
Anyway, here is a photo of my effort so far, i still have 7 brackets to make and i need to replace all of the screws in the brass terminal blocks for ones of brass. They will hold my neo's. This is stuff i had lying around, so may change the magnets later on but it will do to start with. i have tried to make it as easy as possible to modify, all magnet distances are very easy to adjust and the magnets easy to change, if i need to change them later
May the Force be with you..
Err i can't get my images to up load what am i doing wrong?
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Hi Craig,
Thanks for the tips, I was speaking to a mate last night who actually mentioned the same with the cutouts, (Circle) whatever I go with, it has to be frictionless as possible, I like your idea of pushing the other end of the levers, I'll explore this option. I can probably use the same arm as the magnet assist is on. This option will then do away with the top disc idea, good one......thanks.
Take your time, It's a learning excercise, It will come to being, with at least both of us helping each other out it will be better. I'm glad youve started.
The files may not upload, if the server is down, Just a dumb question, make sure your a member, perhaps it won't let you if your not.
Cheers,
Mrd
;)
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heres my effort so far..
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Hi Craigy,
Good work, just like to mention something, try and look at torbays wooden version, and work around that. The stator arms look too far apart, but try it anyway, it still may work ok. What you want to do is make the disc turn while engaging the stator arms, do this by hand, If it doesnt work then go back and build it closely to what the wooden version is. I am trying to do it as close to torbays setup, so far I've been quite happy on how it operates.
Regarding the top disc, rather than have a disc, I will try with an aluminium sheet, half circumference running around the rollers which I will mount just behing the magnets on the stator arms, I've drawn pic by hand to try and show what im talking about. The 'runner' is the alumnium sheet I'm referring to.
Ciao,
Mrd ;D
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Half a biscuit tin lid !
with the lip of the lid pushing the wheels inwards, or stators down, well i think that discribes it best.
You must be getting close its becoming harder and harder to to post anything here the server seems to drop out all the time.
Cheers
Craig
Islas Canarias
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i thought of this way but it might be hard to get the wheels to follow the edge of the ali sheet unless they were groved in some way to ensure they stay on track,
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Hi Craigy,
Ive redone my stator arms, took me quite awhile and ive finished putting the rollers on, if this doesnt work ill go with top disk idea.
I'll keep updating as i go along.
Mrd
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Hi MRD,
after watching your video a few times it seems that in order for the device to continue to spin the magnet which is beside the middle of the three magnets on your center wheel needs to be depressed. So, could you try a second arm which goes out over the middle magnet and presses down on the magnet as it passes. I have drawn my idea on your pic in red and have placed a top and side view of the part on the lower left of the picture.
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Hi Ktm,
I did try this but just placing magnet with my hand, because I thought the same thing as you, I think it didnt work, but ill try your suggestion as this would make it all magnet driven.
Thanks,
Mrd
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Hi All,
I've been playing with my model tonight, and i'm learning alot from it, for example:-
Spacing between armature magnets has to be the same, good way of testing is to just have one magnet on the rotor, as you flip down each of the stator magnets the rotor should flip forward, you can test all of them this way, infact when you get this right, you can probably run this device with only one magnet on the rotor, to increase the torque all ive done is stacked magnets right behind the one rotor magnet.
stay tuned.
;D
Mrd
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Hi MRD,
I thought of it some more, the disk idea is the way to go because if you had a lot of weight on one part of the rotating mass the whole thing would be out of balance. if the top disk was the same diameter as the outside magnets it could be balanced properly. The other thing that I was thinking of is a semi-circle ramp that went around the outside like a lobe on a cam shaft and pressed the magnets down as required. Here's another simple drawing.
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Hi Ktm,
You know , you read my mind exactly, off balance is the key as well.
That has been playing on my mind, I reckon his using a weight in the disc too.
The disc mechanism is the tricky part I suspect, I had another idea while pondering what you were mentioning in your previous post, about using magnet. On the end of the leavers Im going to attach magnets, probably using zippy ties, just to speed construction time abit, and build another arm out, as you mentioned and attach magnet on that and have that pull up the magnets on the end, that way they wont interact with the other magnets close by, if i dont have any success with just using magnets then ill try disc.
Thanks Again,
Mrd ;)
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Hi Mrd and everyone,
i hope to be at the stage where i can post a video of my motor doing the basic rotor movement this weekend. i am torn between mrd's magnet push up and torbays cam off the rotor. But i think i will worry about that when i find out if my effort will chase the gap or not.
You mentioned that the gaps between stators appears large, and perhaps you are right. I'm using what i have lying around and the stator magnets although 15mm in diameter are all i have at the mo, Regardless if it passes the first test of not i will post a video. We are all here to learn and my mistakes might help avoid someone from doing the same thing.
( one reason for using this type of magnet is that they make nice wheels, i thought that perhaps i could kill 2 birds with one stone and have them go down the ramp....)
I have also been thinking about the unbalanced rotor, with that in mind i weighed all of the hardware on the rotor, i have 156 grams to put on the other side, not sure what to use for balast tho.
Keep the ideas coming, between us all we will crack it
Cheers
Craig
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Hi Craig,
Your doing well, youve made the leap to give it ago, thats worth more than anything.
I'm observing things with my setup, if i move one stator magnet out of line, the rotor magnet will not be in the right position, to be flipped.
Keep at it matey, don't be discouraged if at first you don't get the results you expect, technology came to us through persistence and by accident.
What i'm trying to do is learn from how this thing should work, Walter is definitely onto something.
I was thinking of the top disc, i'm probably wrong regarding weights, if you ramp it correctly, the stator magnets just behind, will have nowhere to go, but forward.
I'm going to try the aluminium runner around the circumference, as i have the wheels setup that way, if this doesnt do it, then im going to try magnets on the back of the leavers, and lastly the top disc, whichever works best...lol
Take your time, take breaks and be patient.
Rgds,
Mrd :)
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Hi Craig,
I've narrowed down that, Top disk and magnets are the way to go, I've tried the aluminium on the side rollers but it's not good, too much friction.
I will keep you posted when i have it finished.
Cheers,
Dom ;)
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Hi Mrd,
Well it works! Although i noticed a few things,
in my design i have used small 1/4 inch x 1/2 inch magnets that i mounted inside of brass terminal block so that i cound add or remove as required. Since i found that a half circle of magnets , one every 15 degrees 13 magnets did not work as well as just 11 magnets.
One of the problems with this approch is that the rotor has 11 magnets or 11 magnetic bubbles or Fields. these can cause the rotor to stick if the stators fall between these fields. The best solution there fore would be one magnet with one field so that the stator in line to be lifted is on the edge of the rotors field. This perhaps is only a problem when starting up, since on my model the rotor may sometimes come to rest too late, i.e it has a magnet go past the stator. When we lift that magnet the rotor moves to equlibrum which is not always in the direction required. It is easy to fix on my model i think i will just need stators that have a wider magnetic field so jaming cannot occur.
Well i have been trying to post my video for 2 days now but the server is always ropey, anyway i have changed the angles of all of the rotor magnets so that their faces point backwards to the direction of rotation( Like magnetic wankel ) and there is a marked improvement, and no jamming.
Craig
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Hi All,
nice results so far,
please switch off Javascriptin your browser , if you have server timeouts
when trying to post a video.
There is currently a problem with the banner loading.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
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@Craigy,
What do you mean "it works"? Do you mean you have a wokjing self-sustaining Torbay motor and you're trying to show us a video of it? If that's the case, I can't wait to see it. Why don't you try posting it on Google or Youtube?
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Hi there,
sorry i didn't mean to mislead anyone, me and mrd are replicating and one of the most important steps is getting the rotor to move around when all stators are flipped up, that is what i meant when i said it worked. In my design i am using multiple small cheap magnets and we had doubts about using them. But i thought if other people want to replicate, then using off the shelf componets is the way to go..
Craig
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So8mhc40pZQ
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For those who missed it, I have a video on post 87, Still a work in progress, Once the mechanism is done, it should work, all tests so far show that it is viable, I have two options open to me at this stage for finishing the mechanism, one is using entirely only magnets, and the other option is the ramp top disk as per Walters setup.
Mrd :D
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Hi Craigy,
Your basic rotor movement looks nice. Good work.
I also watched yours, Mrd. Works correct.
I haven't tried to build this motor, but I think I understand it well.
Guys, You've done a really good work, and makes me thinking about the concept deeply.
I already have a design in mind based on pure magnetic mechanics, which holds some good promise for me.
I can't build it, because it's more complex, but I believe you can do it with hard work.
So, if you will fail with your own ones by any reason, and interested in my design, please ask me to draw it for you. It's even not easy to draw, not one picture, and it will take me some time to visualize properly and write descriptions, but I will be glad to give it to you, when you will be interested.
I think the best thing is to finish your own research first. :)
Hope you will find the right solutions. I'm with you.
If you have any problems, feel free to ask me and I will try my best to help.
You must be with the magnets, and the magnets will be with you! ;)
All the bests,
Greg
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Hi all ,
I have started having a go at the ramp, fingers crossed...
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Hi all , i have achieved 360 degrees of rotation, without the top hat ramp , this will not continuosly rotate because it comes to a grinding stop when it encounters the first raised stator, as per previous post i should have the ramp sorted in the next few days. I should mention that i am using the great idea by Mrd to raise the magnets, if you look closely at video you will see a small magnet superglued to the perspex top hat, this works much better than i ever imagined..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kfYO1mz7FA
I will post again in daylight as the above video is a little dark but look at the power!! HiHi
Craigy
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Hi Craigy,
Good work man, looks like your ahead of me......lol, I'm taking my time and not rushing things. I should have this licked in the next couple of weeks
and probably worst case, a month.
Thanks for the compliment regarding the magnet assist, I will be trying to make it all frictionless by using magnets alone, I remember reading that Walter mentioned that there's different ways of making the motor, so im just using my brain....lol, about time too that i used it.
I've also been very active on the steven marks TPU, I think we may have had a breakthrough......2 rings and coils, thats all there is to it, something about that arrangement, gives you overunity, or a damn efficient power converter, anyway dude, I won't rattle on too much, goto go to work soon...Yuk!
Take care and I'll catch all very soon.
Cheers,
Dom ;D
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Hi Craigy,
I've been busy trying to make the top section, this is definitely the tricky part. I've installed the rollers, but am experiencing some friction, i.e rollers arent helping to push the magnets down properly, perhaps they maybe to big or they have too much slack, ill have to work something out. Hows your little project going?
Cheers,
Dom
;D
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Hi all , i have achieved 360 degrees of rotation, without the top hat ramp , this will not continuosly rotate because it comes to a grinding stop when it encounters the first raised stator, as per previous post i should have the ramp sorted in the next few days. I should mention that i am using the great idea by Mrd to raise the magnets, if you look closely at video you will see a small magnet superglued to the perspex top hat, this works much better than i ever imagined..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kfYO1mz7FA
I will post again in daylight as the above video is a little dark but look at the power!! HiHi
Craigy
Hi Craigy,
AWESOME Video!! Great work! I love the simplicity of your design. It looks great! But after checking out that video, I saw another one of a similer motor that you aparently posted here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7cXfwRt8Iw. It seems like this motor is self-running? how did you get it to keep rotating? Or were you moving it with your finger or something???
God Bless,
Jason O
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Haha nevermind the last post about the video. I see now that you were moving the stator magnet with your hand :)
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Craigy
I also think that your design is brilliantly simple, your progress is the best I've seen in a long time,
now for everyone, don't you find anoying not being able to control the slow motion through the progress bar of the videos in yutube?......so popular and yet so impractical?.........1.6 billion........
google had a way better format ,what's going on?
I hope you get it running by itself, the torque and speed are amazing, is not clear what seems to be the problem , is there anything else more complicated other than the obvious lack of stator lifting?
Anyway I've left my own project on the side due to my own version of a motor taking an amazing "turn", I've found yet another form of avoiding the sticky point, years in the making is a corroboration of the mayan and egyptian ideas about this, unbalancing forces are the clue ,weight into speed as David Hamel has being saying all along, is true to work......but it also brings the negative side that this ancient civilizations got out of control, becoming their own demise.
Those last words are to encourage you all to continue, the solutions are already out there to save the environment but the goverment won't let us have it for a long time,yes the military in its advertisement say it itself "get to know the technology today ,that your friends will see in 30 years, be part of the military"
We supossed to work for the few controlling the system , like cows being milked, not to be extremely rebelious about it but we are going to be dying by the millions if we don't do something about it, oil=terrorism=controlled society......two birds killed with one stone.......instead of heading for the stars and going through a higher evolutive state.....and hapiness.......so let's continue.
best regards.
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Hi All,
Yes i have a few posts on You tube, i am pleased to say that my video of the Torbay chasing the Gap has got almost a 1000 hits in the week its been on there, so its not just us that are interested in this, i have another video which i will post shortly that has me rambling on about what i think i will do next with the ramp problem.
As you know i have 11 magnets on the rotor. These magnets are angled to maximise the force being generated in the clockwise direction. This seemed the most logical, but after looking at how to lower the stators this force is holding the stators up. At the 180 degree point ( 0 being when we first raise the magnet) i have 2 or three magnets which run almost parallel with the edge or the rotor , pointing their lobes in the anticlockwise direction. These last magnets actually raise the stators more than the first half dozen, so clock wise force is one thing but i must sacrifice it to reduce the field at that position so the stators will go down. Also i made a perspex top hat with a 180 degree cut out so that the stators could raise when they needed to, but with improvised ramp and magnet assist i couldn't get the stators low enough to clear the perspex, Hence loud Clunk! after a good start up.
I will try again with re-positioned Rotor magnets that reduce the effect on Last stator in the sector being energised, this being the first stator that has to drop fully to the horizontal. The perspex top will have the cut out for the ramp extended to 220 degrees.
Testing by hand suggests that you don't have to push 4 stators down at the same time to get the rotary effect, all that is needed is a push to get it to the next stator , and you do that by knocking the last stator down before the magnet automatically knocks the next in line up
I Think i have concluded from my rambling that, The magnet or magnets on the rotor should also have their fields in the form of a ramp, ie strong to begin with then tapering off as we reach 180 degrees, This would work in unision with a physical ramp.
I would like to conduct torque mesurements, i have a digital scale 0 to 300 grams acurate to a tenth of a gram, does anyone know how i could hook this up to get some idea of the rotational force i am getting?
Well i'm still experimenting, and my Uncle Brian is coming from the uk to see me in nov, he is a retired mechanical engineer so perhaps he will see something that i can't.
I must say that acceleration and torque seem great until you try to ramp it down. But this must be posible , if you have ever played with one of these torbays you will know what i mean.
Cheers
Craig
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Hi All, this is my latest video offering, you can get an idea of the force on the stators, i am not very eloquent on camera, but i am trying to concentrate on the problem of getting that last stator down,
Enjoy
Craig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3dDqFoS7oI
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Hi Craig,
I have an idea that might help you a lot, though it may intel a bit of redesigning of your prototype to some extent.
The orientation of the magnets on your rotor looks just like the Minato wheel in its design. If you check out http://www.fdp.nu, you can see that Mr. Minato used a large stator magnet to cause the rotor to rotate; but the interesting thing is that his rotor actually rotates in the opposite direction of yours! The problem with minute?s wheel is that the sticky spot is at the beginning of the track (back repulsion) that stops the wheel from going, but once the stator magnet is past that area, the wheel accelerates through the track, and at the end, it gets a shove away from the last magnet until it reaches the sticky spot again. But perhaps you could use that repulsive sticky spot to your advantage to life the stators in front of the track. And since the magnets are angled in the direction the wheel is rotating in, you won't have the problem you are having now with the field at the end of the track being too strong to allow the stator magnets to lower. But you will need to use stator magnets with a larger pole face though to accomplish this. The larger face will allow the stator magnet to smoothly glide over the track without getting stuck between the rotor magnets.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi All,
I've posted my video on google video,http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=5291826833015915174 it's the one on post 87, you can d/l the vid from the google site by using this url:-
http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php, save it as avi and use vlc media player to play it.
Craigy, I was too thinking about the ramp, I'm on this part now, thinking about it more, I think walter may have used weights to assist the stator arms back down again, look at his video, youll notice that not all the wheels are touching the bottom of the ramp disc, they seem to clunk back down, which makes me think he is using garvity, (weight) to assist in getting them back down again.
Cheers,
Dom
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You may be right, his machine is certainly a monster, why on earth he didn't post more pics of the cd size machine is beyond me.
I really don't want to add weight if i can get away with it, on my machine so far the initial kick to get it going is nothing compared to the acceleration it gets after passing 2 magnets. i will try though, i will load my stators down with brass washers and see what that does..
I have noticed that the amount of kick up, is proportional to amount or initial rotary force. i.e. the bigger the swing on the stator being lifted, the bigger the initial kick, might need a few more magnets to lift the stator as it will be a lot heaver. Still lots of avenues to explore, not just ramp , very absorbing.
Cheers
Craig
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Hi Craigy,
Weights is an option, another thing is that It may not have to travel too far up, just probably 5 mil might do the trick, so maybe using weights can be eliminated. He also uses a half circular magnet on the rotor, and the ends might have the oposite polarity, that is attraction, this is worth exploring as well, We will just keep at it, my minds been busy lately...lol
Dom ;)
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Hi Craig,
I have an idea that might help you a lot, though it may intel a bit of redesigning of your prototype to some extent.
The orientation of the magnets on your rotor looks just like the Minato wheel in its design. If you check out http://www.fdp.nu, you can see that Mr. Minato used a large stator magnet to cause the rotor to rotate; but the interesting thing is that his rotor actually rotates in the opposite direction of yours! The problem with minuteÂ’s wheel is that the sticky spot is at the beginning of the track (back repulsion) that stops the wheel from going, but once the stator magnet is past that area, the wheel accelerates through the track, and at the end, it gets a shove away from the last magnet until it reaches the sticky spot again. But perhaps you could use that repulsive sticky spot to your advantage to life the stators in front of the track. And since the magnets are angled in the direction the wheel is rotating in, you won't have the problem you are having now with the field at the end of the track being too strong to allow the stator magnets to lower. But you will need to use stator magnets with a larger pole face though to accomplish this. The larger face will allow the stator magnet to smoothly glide over the track without getting stuck between the rotor magnets.
God Bless,
Jason O
Hi Jason, A very valid observation, It appears that i have created more problems for myself using my multiple magnet rotor approach, I am doing it this way because these are standard magnets that cost 10 euros off ebay and if, and when, this replication works it means that it will be easy for people to replicate as well. The Torbay information is open to speculation. Is it one magnet , is it four? Does it have a stronger face in one direction than another. We just don't know with any certainty. So with lots of unknowns i diecided to use multiple magnets which can be easily re-orrentated.
I have been working on the rotor all day today, i have concentrated on getting the stators down instead of torque. So now everything goes up and down as it should but now i haven't got the Torque ( half a turn at most) AAAAGGGh LOL. I will try something similar to the minato wheel and see if a inward curve of magnets will give the effect i want. thus at the bottom of the curve dropping the stators should be easier, as for the angles of the magnets their maximum force is at 45% off the face, but i will try the other way around just in case i have missed something,
Thanks for the observations
Craig
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Hi Craigy,
Don't burn yourself out, pull back at times, have a break and think about what to do next.
I've taken another snap shot of what im going to do with the rollers ontop, im actually bringing them closer to the centre. Torbays design has his wheels ontop closer to the centre rather than out more, Ive also thought of another idea if the rollers i made dont work, good idea is using roller bearings instead, i.e 360 rotation but i guess they dont make them in brass, maybe stainless steel would do nicely, I have to check on that.
If you can bring your top rollers closer to the centre, it would make it alot easier to make top ramp disc, Im going to check on Torbays video again, because by right where the stator arm which gets lifted in video, there should be no ramp. The ramp should start where the first magnet gets pushed down, that should cause the rotor section to move forward.
Don't give up
Dom ;D
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Hi Craig,
Yep looks like i was right, check out the pic. ;D
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Hi All and Craig,
Just thinking about this again, if you put a weight exactly where the start of the ramp begins, this will have enough force to push the armature magnet down, this makes perfect sense, since its this part that would need the most force. This will probably be the case with mine and Craigs setup, Walter uses concave magnets and a what looks like half ring magnet, which may give different results, still once the weight has been introduced, the offbalance should provide the momentum we are looking for. Stay tuned for more updates.
Dom :D
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Hi all ,
re-reading the forum to see if i missed something , Mrd take a look at page 17, theres a nice pic of the rotor.
Craig
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Hi All,
My Stator mechanism weighs the grand total of 25 grams, Magnet, washer screw etc.
I placed a 1 kilo bag of sugar on top of the rotor, and guess what?
No change what so ever in the performance.......
So as Mrd has hinted, is this the secret of the torbay?
Can anyone work out the maths? ie what is the energy required to stop a flywheel of 1 kilo rotating at 1 metre per second, perhaps we have the ramp licked after all.
Craig
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Just spent 2 hours reading this thread and would like to just say "Well Done Guys".
Look forward to seeing more and if it continues at this rate I will fire up my CNC and do some tests.
Meanwhile back to the basics this end of finding out how long these magnet pinch cuts all over my fingers take to heal!!!
Regards
Sean.
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Hi All,
My Stator mechanism weighs the grand total of 25 grams, Magnet, washer screw etc.
I placed a 1 kilo bag of sugar on top of the rotor, and guess what?
No change what so ever in the performance.......
So as Mrd has hinted, is this the secret of the torbay?
Can anyone work out the maths? ie what is the energy required to stop a flywheel of 1 kilo rotating at 1 metre per second, perhaps we have the ramp licked after all.
Craig
Hi Craig,
WOW thats interesting. I never would have thought that the magnets would have that kind of torque. But this will definitely work to your advantage. Please keep us posted on your progress; I am anxious to see where this could lead us :).
God Bless,
Jason O
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Craigy
I've watched your second video again and again .....I think you are missing the point where the patent states that 3 forces are applied against one, precisely the 3 magnets which are more difficult to put down are this forces!! the other one if the secuential lifting of the stator magnets , where the gap is created, where the stator falls over and over again , ala Einstein explainig how mass distorts space and time in proportion to the mass of and object, I think by the way that this is an interesting comparison.....and don't forget Bob Lazar's explanation about this same principle being used to forward and ufo, there's video about this in google.
The way I see it this are the ones to put down and probably not even by that much,again the ramp make this a gradual step.
For your particular design I think it should be mechanically actuated and not with another magnet to put down this stators
otherwise the interaction of magnetic fields would interfere each other.
In my case ,with my new set of magnets magnifying the strength of the field , make my top ramp go sideways getting stuck ,my setting wobbles in its axle that is ,this just to let you know all how important right rigging is, and the margin is only millimeters in my case is driving me nuts!!
So good luck hope you get it right.
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Craigy
I've watched your second video again and again .....I think you are missing the point where the patent states that 3 forces are applied against one, precisely the 3 magnets which are more difficult to put down are this forces!! the other one if the secuential lifting of the stator magnets , where the gap is created, where the stator falls over and over again , ala Einstein explainig how mass distorts space and time in proportion to the mass of and object, I think by the way that this is an interesting comparison.....and don't forget Bob Lazar's explanation about this same principle being used to forward and ufo, there's video about this in google.
The way I see it this are the ones to put down and probably not even by that much,again the ramp make this a gradual step.
For your particular design I think it should be mechanically actuated and not with another magnet to put down this stators
otherwise the interaction of magnetic fields would interfere each other.
In my case ,with my new set of magnets magnifying the strength of the field , make my top ramp go sideways getting stuck ,my setting wobbles in its axle that is ,this just to let you know all how important right rigging is, and the margin is only millimeters in my case is driving me nuts!!
So good luck hope you get it right.
Your correct kukulcangod, this is all driven mechanically, i've looked at top disc again, in the wooden version, this is like a corkscrew, im building mine in same fashion.
what torbay has done is cut a circle, cut another circle in centre to fit it into rotor, then cut a slit in one end of that circle and bent it, so it would be easier to manipulate this way:-corkscrew, then he has put strip around this circle all way around, to maintain the corckscrew shape, but have it so it gradually picks up on the wheels on the armature magnets.
I have cut my own wheels using nylon cutting board, but these have square edges rather than round, im thinking of using large 'O' rings over these wheels, this is of course if i cant get ramp and wheel beneath to work properly as it is.
I'm upto final stage of building, I hope to have finished soon and hopefully working replica.
Keep up the good work, its the best way to learn...patience and you will find amazing things.....lol
Dom
;D
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hi Tom,
thanks for your trying to build it.
I had for month a contact with the inventor of a OU magnet motor (he says, that it works,but I don't see it)
He don't want to go public with his OU motor. Because he says it will come a World economy crash.
I show him the function of the torbay motor and the first what he said:
It can't work when the stator pull up and down with mechanical.
When it will work than only when the stator pull up and down with a magnet !
Mani
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Hi very clever guys,
I had 'lost the topic' about Torbay mag. motor.
I was (sorrowfully) about to beleive that it was a fake.
According to the last posts in this thread, sounds like it were not...
@mrd10
Your replication sounds great and very promising.
Many thanks a lot :) also for the url :
http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php
I was just wondering how I could download google vids.
Very Best
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Craigy
Just to have fun and to illustrate the point I included a link to a video showing that with little movement of the stators is possible to create fast rotation mantaining torque for what I can feel.
This was before my new setting which has to much force fot the rotor to keep straight also very important .
I will show it when ready. best regards
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4725266832858577803
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Hello Guys,
I am working on Torbays motor since a good while.
I am using rectangular magnets and also round magnet for testing the rotor. At the end of the last magnet on the rotor I have added (glue) a little magnet at 45 degres so when the stator magnet escapes from the last rotor magnet it gives it an extra push out. Now right now i am figuring the right configuration of the rotor/stator. It is the hardest part.
I have a question for you guys, i have ordered some ring magnets (6" od) that i want to use for testing. Do you think Torbay's rotor ring magnet is magnetised through thickness if yes it means that it has a North and South pole on the edge of it.
When i receive my order i sure will conduct more test about it and it could be a clue to how this device is working.
Talk to you later, Joe
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Hi Joe,
I have a small ring magnet, i havent cut it in half, its only a small one.
One side is north and the other is south. I guess this is very interesting question, from what the video shows, it seems that the front edge of the ring magnet maybe north, as it has to repulse the lever magnet, but i don't see the other levers going up behind it, so it might be as you say, its more north on the front edge and south at the back edge
I too am using rectangle magnets for the levers and i have put these same magnets on the rotor. I was trying to make the top mechanism, ive succeeded somewhat, but found that i dont have enough torque to push forward, still theres just a tiny bit of friction with top wheels, there are adjustements to be made, I feel that this is what is needed. I have these consideration to think about:-
1)bring the lever magnets closer to each other.
2)the travel distance for lever magnets may need to be reduced.
3)Also bringing the lever magnets closer to the rotor disc magnets.
4) add springs or weights on the lever magnets.
I'll keep at it, take my time.
All the best with your setup Joe.
Send me a video of what you have done, when you get a chance.
Cheers,
Dom :D
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Hi Joe, Dom and KuKu,
I found out that by playing with just one stator as in your video i could get great speed on the rotor, unfortunately i haven't videoed it though as i thought it too good to be true, LOL. i thought for a min or two about adding a few servos...but that would be cheating.. part of the problem is low speed torque, we need quite a bit to get up the ramps or lift stators, although lifting stators is the easy bit, it is still using our rotational force which is being depleated.
I have used a magnet to push the stators up, and it is a good idea, but i am beginning to wonder if perhaps there is more stopping force there than i realise, i am playing with the positioning and size of that magnet before having a go with a cam.
Joe, my rotor is made up of 11 small magnets, they are angled all the way down the rotor in the way you discribe with your single magnet.The angles are very important as to how well the rotor works. Jason , mentioned that my rotor looked like the Minato wheel but with the magnets facing the wrong way. Well i put them around the otherway , in the direction of rotation and got complete lock up. Does the Minato wheel use attraction? Anyway in the patent you can see that torbays rotor has angled edges., I am assuming, rightly or wrongly that , that angle produces a lobe of magnetic field that is acting in the same way as your single magnet or my multiple magnets, i.e. it creates a kind or ratchet so that movement is favored in one direction over another, the 45 degree lobe pushing on the stator faces.
I noticed that the stator magnets are also angled but as my small magnets cannot be angled i have placed a large Steel washer in front of them, creating a "T" shape, surprisingly enough this seems to have widened the magnetic field thus making movement much smoother. I have now restricted stator movement down to 5 or 6 mm but the various ramps i have tried have all failed, but frustratingly, not by much.
Still playing with it..if we work together we will get it in the end
Cheers
Craig
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Guys
To me the Minato problem was solved by Torbay's solution there is not much difference if you think about the magnetic field shape used in both.
Playing with the idea of a mechanical device months ago for the minato instead of the electrical pulses (he did cheat craigy ;D) came to realize is not easy due to forces being balanced out or depleted in the process therefore complying with the laws of conservation of energy but Torbay uses more force out of 3 magnets more effectively ,
overcoming this problem , his solution doesn't come out of balance but all of the oposite, jusst an observation.....I'm keeping at it.Cheers
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Hi Guys,
I don't want to put a negative on what were doing here, for the time being, I have left this project, as I had issues with top ramp, It seems that the only way this is going to work is if we apply some force, like someone said in earlier post, if we use our hands , fingers that were using energy to cause rotation, my issue after building the motor was how is he getting this thing to push the lever arms down, without using force to do it.
If you look at Torbays video, he has the bottom bit covered, so it maybe that he is putting us all on, by conceling a battery or something like that, and as he pushes the lever in it activates a switch, anyway guys keep at it, I've gone over to the steven marks section.
You may have success with this and work something out, that i missed. The one thing i hate is bullshit artists who do this, its like bringing our hopes up and then when we findout it MAY not be true, it brings our hopes crashing down. I did this to see if indeed it could work, even if I got slight rotation, again maybe im missing something. Its just that after building this, I realized that it may not work as we still need energy to push levers down.
Cheers,
Dom :D
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Bingo guys, I think I have an answer, I don't know how it came to me but it did:- the bottom maybe covered up, because its the rest of the puzzle he isn't showing us.
What if and My guess its easy to do, we put an arm on the lower part with a magnet attached to it, pretty much like i did with the magnet assist at the top, and as the bottom arm reaches the lever, which should be forced down, it helps to force the lever down, and the top disc is just to aid the rotation.
Again the arm will be on the bottom of the device, below the levers, so we need a thin piece of perspex for the bottom.
Cheers,
Dom ;D
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I agree that I hope this Motor from Argentina is legitimate. I don't like scammers and hoaxers and especially don't like them when they make false claims about VERY serious issues such and this. This world is in DESPERATE need of clean and abundant energy and for anyone to make false claims (such as saying they have a constantly spinning permanent magnet motor when they really do not) is downright digusting in my opinion.
I'm not saying the Magnet Motor from Argentia is not legitimate. I have not read anything that forces me to make that conclusion. But I'm just simply saying I hope people realize how important this subject is and that they don't make false statements.
Also, I want to say something. Most of these devices I have been reading about for the past few days are indeed rather LARGE! We don't need a large device. We just need a PROOF OF CONCEPT device that moves a rotor. It doesn't have to produce a lot of power or spin super fast. We just need something that consistantly works.
What is the obstacle when it comes to performing these experiments on a smaller scale with smaller magnets that would both be cheaper and also require less of other materials? Personally, I would LOVE IT if we could come up with absolute working plans of a *small* toy sized magnet motor that works, and is so small you can hold it in one hand.
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Hi All
Thevorlon, that is my mission objective, and i think its everyone elses mission objective on this tread. both myself and Mrd are using common or garden bits and bobs that you can get in any hardware store, with magnets off of ebay. A CNC machine would be great, but it will put off all those high school kids and people not so young from copying the machine, if we make a break through the only way to go is to let everyone know, and give the plans to the whole world so that every highschool kid has a little working model of a torbay or equivelent as his or her science project. That way people will wonder why we still use oil..
Anyway back to the thread..MRD don't you dare leave this tread just yet, i got sent an email direct that deserves consideration........
hi,
remember, likes want to get out of each others field. opposites want to center with each other. if you have a north field 4' wide and place a south field 1" wide in the north field, the south field will want to face the 2" mark (middle) on the north field.
if you are getting fast rpm by moving only one stator magnet, why not just raise and lower that one?
if that effect is the same with any given stator magnet, you could mount 2 (180 degrees apart) on a seesaw over the rotor and with cam or magnets inside rotor magnets on rotor, raise 1 side while the other lowers. timing the lowering so it gives you the push (if using repell mode) when you need it, like you do by hand.
i have been working on this idea for awhile (lots of distractions), but hadn't been able to mount my magnets to get the rotation you guys are getting. hope this turns on some lights.
tom (tbird)
Thanks Tbird..I have tested the concept on my torbay by hand and it works, now i am in the process of knocking up a seesaw to see how far it gets in the real world. I like this idea because there is NO RAMP and we know that stators love to go up and in this idea they will fall down under gravity ( aided a bit, by their connection via seesaw with the raising stator).. I will post a video shortly , explaining the concept and showing you how well it works by hand..
So Mrd don't dump your torbay just yet, i may have to start a tread called TORBAY HYBRID.
Craigy
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Craigy,
Thanks for your thoughtful post. It's great that it seems everyone here is pretty much together on what our goals should be.
Let me ask you a question. Obviously, I'm new here and I'm new to magnetic motors even though I'm trying to read as much as possible about the subject. Also, I'm trying to read through as much of this forum as possible. But I have a question.
What is the best result anyone has gotten so far who has not simply left the forum to never post again? Does anyone have a permanent magnet motor that actually rotates and keeps rotating even at a slow rate of speed?
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Hi Thevorlon,
The truth be known that we cannot answer your questions with any certainty. We all use this forum to confirm things for ourselves since all so called over unity machines appear and disappear fast with not a single one in production (almost).
One could take the view its because as soon as a discovery is made, the Oil companies shut the inventor up or perhaps the inventor made claims that he couldn't demonstrate, and no one could replicate.
A machine that has a web page and claim to have machines in production is the Perendev.
http://www.perendev-power.com/index_files/Page626.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1woSe6UB0c8
The page has not been updated in ages and there is doubt about whether the things work or not from what i have read so far.
Any way this is the Torbay Thread , here we are trying to replicate the torbay, without success as yet but perhaps my last post will raise our hopes a little.
Craig
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Craigy,
If anyone manages to get their device working they need to take pictures, video, and create an easy to follow plan for construction and then we would all need to distribute it far and wide as quickly as possible. I honestly believe that overunity devices have indeed been supressed by oil companies and other powers that be in the military, government, or private sector. However, I doubt that is always the case and probably many simply did not work as advertised and many others were probably scams (to make money) or simply to discredit others doing research in the field (disinformation).
I wish all of you very well and I'm just wondering the best way for me to step into this kind of research. I'm on a very limited budget and don't think I could afford to make large test rigs. I'm considering making some smaller devices. The folks at Steorn say they have their permanent magnet motors ranging in size from the size of a fingernail to over a meter.
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Hi The Vorlon and Craigy,
@The Vorlon, you wouldn't happen any chance be a babylon5 fan like myself? lol
The magnet motor I've built wasnt all that expensive, what might be expensive is getting all the bits and pieces, but to narrow it down, brass screws, aluminium flat and channel pieces plus brass threaded rod and nylon cutting board, all these things would probably all up cost between 100 to 200 bucks Aus, It wouldnt be anymore than that, of course thats including the magnets.
@Craigy, I don't want to quit, and I feel bad doing so, its just that I don't think it will work with current setup. In saying that, I will be passing this onto my work colleague who will be working on it. His a member of this site also, "Antronix" I think is his callsign.
I will be pulling the levers off and other bits and have instructed him to make a thinner base with magnet assist on the bottom, I know he will do well, as he likes the challenge, and is very keen on devices such as this.
Please don't feel any animosity towards me, I hope I've contributed to this replication.
Again, I will be passing this onto my colleague, and keep the flame going.
Plus I'm making head way with understanding the Steven Marks device. And I feel this is the way to go for me.
Yours Truly,
Dom ;)
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Hi Craigy, Mrd and others
Craigy, i have read your last post and you said this:
"2 (180 degrees apart) on a seesaw over the rotor and with cam or magnets inside rotor magnets on rotor, raise 1 side while the other lowers. timing the lowering so it gives you the push (if using repell mode) when you need it, like you do by hand"
That's exacly what i am working on and i don't want to be too positive about that but we might have some success using only 2 stators.
I have started a few months ago trying replicate Torbays (just part time) with 6 and 8 rotor without success. Now last weekend i played around with 2 stators and 1 half ring magnet 3" i can make it rotate very fast. By make it rotating faster we can overcome the sticky points.
Okay, English is not my first language (I am french Canadian) so I have taken pictures of my partially dismantle rig (pictures will describe better what I mean with a second wheel over the rotor with little neo magnets for the up and down rotors) and i would like to post them on this site but unfortunatly there is no attachement button appearing when i want to post.
May be i can send them to someone"s email and he can post it for me.
But guys, because i work on my machines only on week end i won't be able to send them until then.
Talk to you later,
Joe
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mrd,
I'm a huge Babylon 5 fan and LOVED the series almost as much as all the various Star Trek series combined. It was a great series with tons of drama, great characters, lots of extraterrestrails of various species, and a great storyline. Also, it deals with space and one thing I want to do before I do is travel in space. That is one of my goals. And I don't mean on some space shuttle barely reaching Earth orbit, but to other civilizations!
Also, if I do some experimentation I am going to have to do it CHEAP. My idea so far is to purchase some neomydium magnets and mount them onto a simple light weight STYROFOAM DISK. I can just poke a hole in the middle of the disk and nail it to a piece of wood. They make styrofoam disks of various sizes and shapes and they are fairly easy to cut. Then after mounting the magnets on the styrofoam disk I could embed the stator magnets onto various pieces of styrofoam and secure them on different parts of the board.
I'm not going for anything fancy with my setup. Just trying to find a configuration of magnets that would allow a rotor to keep spinning and push past any sticky points.
What do you think?
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Hi all,
Joe , do you mean something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYquAMu6e2I
Comments please , good or bad, can we get rid of torbays dam ramp and replace it with a seesaw?
Vorlon, have you not got an old hard disk lying around somewhere? Rob the bearing or motor out of it, then use wood ,metal plastic or anything else that is reasonably durable to make a rotor, I'm not sure styrofoam will last very long, the magnets are small, but very strong.
Craig
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On the torbay motor video, there appears to be a large gear on top, coupled to a pinion spining as the top platform rotates.
Does anyone have any idea or comments of what might that be? and why it's there?
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Craigy,
I am at work now and the firewall on my system prohibits videos, so when I get home i will look at Youtube to see if we have the same idea.
I will contact you later tonight.
Are from America?
Joe
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thats the gear to the small motor used to generate electric.
I'm in the Canary Islands, Ex-Pat Englishman
Craig
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thats the gear to the small motor used to generate electric.
I'm in the Canary Islands, Ex-Pat Englishman
Craig
ahh ok the pinion is attached to a generator that produces usuable electricity? I could not see any wires coming out of it at least from that video.
Thanks for the quick reply.
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Hello Craigy,
I just watched your video on Youtube and i was thinking about the same thing except than i am using a half donut magnet.
I have a lock at the center (like yours) so that center stator magnet is (I think but not sure) unuseful concerning giving torque. On my next try, I will concentrate on 2 stators, one on each end of the ring magnet. One stator gets pull up by the upper magnet (I will fix a little neo magnet on top of the wheel so when the wheel is turning it is catching the stator up) so that rotor is now ready to pull the rotor to the other end and finally at the other end the next stator "waits" for the rotor to be at exactly at the right position for the final push. And then the same process is repeat again and again.
Right now It is only an assumption and it may not work but i will give a try by the end of the week.
Have a good day,
Joe
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Hi Joe and everybody,
Well in my frustration replicating the torbay ramp; to push the stators down i am trying a see saw. It should be ready for testing soon as i have fixed a beam over the rotor via bearings. i am hoping that the rotor will seek the gap from one side to another. in principle it seems to work by hand, and uses the torbay principle of chasing the gap. it just raises 2 stators instead of all 8. i t may turn out to be a lemon, but someone has to try
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oh and a photo why not?
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Where has everybody gone?
I'm still trying, perhaps its a lemon, but no one is telling me so LOL.
So here is another video, the Torbay Hybrid, I will try and raise the stators using the trick of a magnet on the Rotor. it worked well in the standard torbay. I can only Try!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7jIwL9LFc
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Hi Craigy
you are doing a fine job mate, but all of the designs come back to the point of getting past that sticky point.
I have tried many designs and like yourself gone for the practical rather than the theory (it amazing what you can learn from feeling those magnetic flux's through the hand), but they all come down to the sticky point.
My main approach now is down to finding out how to get past that sticky point, in the form of shielding/redirecting the magnetic field.
I think your design is excellent in producing the Torque and speed that will be indeed needed to produce the motion to drive a small alternator, but until you get the full rotation you are at the same point as the rest of us.
Even though their are many people on these forums that have gone through all the stuff we are probably trying, I do not see a collection of trial and error devices listed. So till then we battle on and learn as we go along.
Keep it up mate and well done.
Regards
Sean.
Where has everybody gone?
I'm still trying, perhaps its a lemon, but no one is telling me so LOL.
So here is another video, the Torbay Hybrid, I will try and raise the stators using the trick of a magnet on the Rotor. it worked well in the standard torbay. I can only Try!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7jIwL9LFc
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Hopefully my humble efforts will inspire people to do the same. Perhaps through our failures we are positively contributing to the day when overunity comes, and come it will, just a little bit earlier for our efforts.
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"sticking" ;D to the original torbay design which I'm using I've just find out that the axle of the rotor is to short , and also the ramp needs to be a taller one if we imagine a cilinder in vertical position and looking from the side the ramp that I need would be a barrel instead of a coin width in comparison, to allow the stator in front of the angled half moon magnet to operate , to create the gap that is, more effectively, the way I have it? the top is constricting everything with even forces going no where therefore,I was affraid a too long shaft would create back the wobble movement.......back to the drawing board for right measurements......
I also hope this can be used as a reference of things to consider. cheers
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Hi everyone,
I'm still out here designing and refining. My latest drawing board effort actually has a name, the 'tortak', which is half Torbay design, half mine. It's still on paper but I've done a couple hand held proofs of concept, and based on that encouragement I'll start gathering parts. I'll be using a HD base and platter for rotor mounting and am accepting any suggestions for ready to use 'pivot points' to mount magnets on.
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hey!
did everybody miss the post about , alot less effort has to be put into sliding a magnet than in lifting it!!!!!
WHAT PART OF THIS DOESN't MAKE SCENCE?
lol
sam
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Hi sam,
Your message wasn't lost on me, that's part of why I'm working with a new design that's trying to stay away from needing a top cap, springs, or bumpy things! The only criteria is to create a 'hole' for the rotor to continually 'fall' into, and there's quite a few ways to attempt that once you ignore how you've seen it attempted by others.
best to all, tak
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Thats better, i was begining to think we we going dry for a bit there.I have wandered of the torbay to test my latest flight of fancy which
probably won't work. But until i convince myself it won't work, i am staying with it. should be back on the standard torbay in about a weeks time at my estimate.
Please post pictures and videos, they inspire us all to copy or do it a different way, which is all benificial to the cause.
And yes sliding magnets is not lost on me either, thats why i started building a torbay. Has anyone tried Mrd's idea of lowering the stators via a magnet on a cam at the bottom of the torbay instead of relying on the top hat ramp alone?
Craig
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Hello Craigy,
Since over 2 months now I have tried diffirent configurations of that motor and i can't get enough torque to lift or lower the rotor.
I have order a big 6" ring magnet that i should receive this week but the question is, will it help because i have used some small ring magnets before for the same machine and no luck. Now as i said before, problem with those rings are that they are magnetized trough the thickness and we have a south pole on one surface and north on the other.
I have looked to get magnet with north pole only on the edge but i can't find any. Torbay probably have this king of magnet so that is why his machine has the power to move the rotors.
I don't send pictures of my rigs until i get something working. If I success with something i will spread the news for sure.
I wish success to all free energy builders!
Joe
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I've been following this one for a while and liked MRD's idea to lift the stator magnet with another magnet. It seems the next issue is to drop the stator magnet. My idea is to have the stator magnets on a sea-saw and use a top disk with magnets installed in the proper locations to move the sea saw in the proper position as required.
here's a quick drawing of my idea; the bottom left area is a side view of the whole thing and the circular drawing to the right is a top view of the rotational disks. I have drawn the bottom disk with 2 sets of magnets and my drawing is quite poor but my thought would be to have 2 sets of magnets on the top disk but then have the magnets on the top disk 176-177 degre apart so that even though the top disk is out of weight balance each side of the disk would react 2-3 degrees out of balance on each side and potentially get around any sticky points.
What do you think??
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my drawing doesn't clearly show this so I thought I'd describe it.
The yellow lower disk would have the series of magnets 180 degrees out of phase.
The top disk would have the each side of the lift / lower magnets 177-178 degrees out of phase.
Also the way I drew this it would turn counter clockwise.
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I've been following this one for a while and liked MRD's idea to lift the stator magnet with another magnet. It seems the next issue is to drop the stator magnet. My idea is to have the stator magnets on a sea-saw and use a top disk with magnets installed in the proper locations to move the sea saw in the proper position as required.
What do you think??
Unfortunately that configuration will bend the flux lines twards the inner top magnet, which would result in minimal flux density reaching the armature magnet. You can simulate this configuration in FEMM to see how the magnets flux lines respond, or you can experiment with a few magnets in your hand. You will notice the the two opisite poles (inner teeter totter and inner lifting magnet) will interact not allowing the inner teeter totter magnet to interact with the armature magnet. Sorry to be the nay-sayer, but I do wish you good luck and I cant wait to see your device running for the first time. I still believe you are quite close, but looking in the wrong direction if you're looking to overcome the tourqe required to lift the stator magnet. Have you ever thought about a pendulum to replace your teeter totter, or even extending the outer length of the teeter totter making it act like a lever. Well once again good luck!
~Dingus
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Hi All
Joe, you say you "can't get enough torque to lift or lower the rotor" do you mean the stators?
The stators want to escape the field of the rotor, so at rest, if you have nothing holding them down they should be straining to get away from the rotor, in My experience getting the stator to bounce up is easy. Down is another matter..
"I have ordered a big 6" ring magnet that i should receive this week" Are you going to cut it in Half?
Ktm, i see what you are trying to do, have you thought about mrd's postulation of having the lowering magnets hidden in the base like the torbay video, it would explain that thick base...
Craig
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I'm still working on the torbay, but seems like no-one else is
Bye
Craig
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I'm still excited to see what you do with the idea... Just waiting for updates, pics, and theorys.
;)
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Hello Craig and all,
I am still waiting for the ring magnet that is magnetised "diametrically" wich mean the edge of the magnet would be north pole only.
So the person who have that kind of magnet is out of the area for a while so i am waiting.
I think (this is my personal point of view and i can be wrong) the half ring magnet would be the only fonctional item for this kind of device.
I have tried many different set up since and i can't have the torque to get the last rotor into the ring magnet line of force.
I will be back with this later, Joe
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I just read my last tread and in the last sentence please forget the "ROTOR" i mean "STATOR"
Sorry
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Hi to all
Yes we are working hard at it! , I would encourage you not to wait to see if the others are finishing ok or not , is the only way to affect reality in a positive way , like Joe I've been trying different configurations and nothing.... the rotor magnet have to be made to exact specs, so Joe ?
from where are you getting this magnet fabricated? I didn't attempted before because it was expensive to make it customized ........I wonder if you got a better source ,I'm in usa.
As I said I got top cam and everything in place but no movement, but I can see at least clearly that my arrangement is weak, now I have too much pressure at putting down the stator so this won't let the rotor spin, and of course my ceramic central magnet is just not powerful enough ,nor the right polarization, just to corroborate Joe's statement.........is just that getting so close I have to try it, is better than waiting for results and pick up the goodies from others..........hope this helps someone , good luck.
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Hello kukulcangod and all,
I have big ring magnets. One is 7.50" OD and 3/4" thick and the other is 6.50" and also 3/4" thick. (See photo) I wish I could use them for testing Torbay's motor but they have 2 poles on the edge.
If i can't get that North pole ring i will still keep on trying with others arrangements. I will not leave this work until i am absolutly certain that there is nothing else to do.
And I am Canadian so winter is coming soon i will have more time to work on these devices.
And I can tell you one thing, even if i don't find the smoking gun well i still have a lot of fun doing that stuff.
Take care Joe
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Hello everyone!. I was reading the previous posts and its very exciting to see pictures and videos.
I'm very interested in this project. I'd like to know who is working (at the moment) on it and if true that it generate energy.
Thanks!
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Very interesting thread been reading it all afternoon on and off, I especially like the see-saw method and was thinking that the center is turning anyway what about a cam moving a long slider as it turns? I suppose it would have to be able to move very freely but it should be possible.
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Where has everybody gone?
I'm still trying, perhaps its a lemon, but no one is telling me so LOL.
So here is another video, the Torbay Hybrid, I will try and raise the stators using the trick of a magnet on the Rotor. it worked well in the standard torbay. I can only Try!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7jIwL9LFc
Craigy,
How about supplying an electromagnet to your device?
(see Harry Pauls EM at http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Paul_Harry_Sprain_magnet_motor )
..dani
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Hi Dani and all,
Thanks for your interest Dani, ( i have a video of the Takahaski principle on you tube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z1THqv_G4 ) but that looks like a blatant copy of the Takahaski motor, i wonder what he's got the patent on, the digital encoder and timing used?
Anyway we are trying to replicate the torbay motor on this thread and that means we cannot (unfortunately!) cheat by using an electro magnet.
The torbay works by creating a a gap in the field surrounding the rotor, the rotor moves towards that low field. The trick is getting the rotor to continuosly rotate by continually having the low field 10 -15 degrees in front of the rotor. Torbay used a ramp to push the stators back down but after trying that and getting no-where i have tried to think of other ways of achieving the samething.
Seesaw was the first idea, thus i am trying to use the energy that repells the stators up, to also push them down. i could add a total of 4, 2 on the top and another 2 on the bottom of the motor. Thus all 8 stator magnets would have that help.
Or
2 rotors, one on top of the other with the magnets on the rotor out of phase by 180 degrees one from the other, Thus when a stator is repelled upwards it forms part of the top rotor.
Still trying everything i can think of, but as i am a practical experimenter it takes time to knock the hardware up.
Craig
P.S. I have seen Bags of Magnet ( Neo) granuales on ebay, apparantly you can use them to mould you own magnet??
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Craig, I'm quite pleased to see your impressive video library, and also that you had tried the see saw method. I believe there is great potential in that aproach. If the outer control arms were extended they would act like a lever. The longer the control arms are the less force required to manuver the magnets. The process is nine parts timing and one part finess. I know you'll find something one day, because your miniture replication prototypes are excellent in design. I may contact for some tips when I start work on my mini minota wheel. Good luck till next time.
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Thanks Dingus,
I am experimenting with 2 rotors and a seesaw now, and it looks promising.
I am effectively trying to have 2 torbay rotors working within one ring of 8 stators. Thus the idea is that when the see saw is raised on one side it creates the gap to move the bottom rotor clockwise, and since the other side of the seesaw is down that creates the gap to move the top rotor clockwise. The other 6 stators are arranged so that their fields are equal on both top and bottom rotors.
I could have mounted the rotor magnets on just one rotor with half on one side and the other half of the magnets on the other side which i may yet have to make up. But in the photo i have the 2 180 degree segments on 2 separate rotors. This is ok for the time being and the rotor can be turned manually by raising one stator after another without the rotor getting stuck or finding a sticky spot, even with 5 stators up, lifting the sixth makes the rotor move. I will experiment with having the stators all able to move or 6 fixed to see what happens.
I have run out of 1/4 inch terminal block, and so has my hardware store! so there will be a small delay while i find some more to hold the magnets down on the second rotor which only has 9 magnets on it at present. On the bottom one i have managed to cram in 13 ( rotor dia 12 cm). Magnets are no longer angled to one side. That was only required when i had fewer magnets installed on the rotor.
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looks good Craigy I started on mine today. Have the turntable ready and spinning nice and free. Luckily I work in a place that uses a lot of plastic so I can get as much as I need and weld it where needed too. :)
pics on blog, below
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Hi Craig and all the guys trying to crack the Torbay Motor
This is my first post to this forum you guys give me a lot of pleasure reading all the ideas and inovations you come up with to get a system that will finaly give free energy to a needy world.
I was born in the UK but I have been living in South Africa for the last 33 years and if ever there is a need for free energy then africa is defininatly the place that needs it.
Enough of my rambling the reason I am posting to the forum, I work in a machine shop where we use dial guages with a magnetic based stand, I hope you guys are familiar with it. The Base has a switch when that when turned on sticks to the bed of the lathe with a strong force and when you flick the switch off it has no force at all.
I was thinking maybe you could use somthing like this on your design. I stripped one apart to see how it worked, the magnate is a round bar about 40 mm diameter by 50 mm long one side of the diameter is north and the other side is south and the switch just revolves the round bar to get the effect. If this is not relevent to your work here please forgive my intrusion and keep up the good work.
regards Barkeroo
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Hi Jason
Is your offer still up to convert the plans you have to DXF files, if so I will then try to convert to Gcode files and have a go a milling it out.
Regards
Sean.
Hi Mani,
A few people have built partial prototypes and one person has claimed to have it working but we have yet to create a nice, public proof-of-concept design that works. I am still interested in doing a replication and would like to work with anyone who has access to CNC machines. I have an existing CAD model which I can easily modify to fit a number of standard magnet sizes that I have been looking at. If anyone is interested in seriously persuing this, I am ready to move forward.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Does anyone here have an idea of how to use the Torbay concept in attraction mode as opposed to repulsion? What do you guys think would make it work similarly?
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Hi Craig and all the guys trying to crack the Torbay Motor
This is my first post to this forum you guys give me a lot of pleasure reading all the ideas and inovations you come up with to get a system that will finaly give free energy to a needy world.
I was born in the UK but I have been living in South Africa for the last 33 years and if ever there is a need for free energy then africa is defininatly the place that needs it.
Enough of my rambling the reason I am posting to the forum, I work in a machine shop where we use dial guages with a magnetic based stand, I hope you guys are familiar with it. The Base has a switch when that when turned on sticks to the bed of the lathe with a strong force and when you flick the switch off it has no force at all.
I was thinking maybe you could use somthing like this on your design. I stripped one apart to see how it worked, the magnate is a round bar about 40 mm diameter by 50 mm long one side of the diameter is north and the other side is south and the switch just revolves the round bar to get the effect. If this is not relevent to your work here please forgive my intrusion and keep up the good work.
regards Barkeroo
Hmmm this sounds quite interesting. I've never heard of that before. Could you take a picture of it or make a rough sketch showing how it works. It could be useful.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi Jason
Is your offer still up to convert the plans you have to DXF files, if so I will then try to convert to Gcode files and have a go a milling it out.
Regards
Sean.
Hi Mani,
A few people have built partial prototypes and one person has claimed to have it working but we have yet to create a nice, public proof-of-concept design that works. I am still interested in doing a replication and would like to work with anyone who has access to CNC machines. I have an existing CAD model which I can easily modify to fit a number of standard magnet sizes that I have been looking at. If anyone is interested in seriously persuing this, I am ready to move forward.
God Bless,
Jason O
Hi Sean,
I'd be happy to convert them for you. But I will need to know what size magnets you want to use so that I can scale the drawings to the right size. Especially for the rotor disk since I recommend using arc segment magnets to approximate the rotor rather than straight block magnets.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi Jason
I can purchase the magnets to fit the design, if you have modelled it around certain magnets already.
If not I have 3/4 x 3/4 1/8 neo's that I use for alot of things.
Think the big challenge forst will be to convert it to Gcode to mill!
Regards
Sean.
Hi Sean,
I'd be happy to convert them for you. But I will need to know what size magnets you want to use so that I can scale the drawings to the right size. Especially for the rotor disk since I recommend using arc segment magnets to approximate the rotor rather than straight block magnets.
God Bless,
Jason O
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my attempt so far working in attraction the upside down ashtray is just for weight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCLRWbF935k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCLRWbF935k)
I really believe this has the capability to work.
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Hi Shipto,
i saw you doing the "seesaw" motion on the video, and i now understand why i have been driving the wife nuts with the clunking sounds i produced while testing my torbay..LOL
Well the hard work starts here. I got to where you are a month ago and although i have everything in repulsion i don't think the differences will be much. Since the force in repulsion is half that of attraction i was able to raise the stators easily with a small magnet, although much depends on the "angle of attack" of the stator magnets to the rotor magnets,
i suppose that with the polarity reversed the problem will be reversed. not so much stopping them from bouncing up as getting them to move up and away from the attraction.
I am currently waiting on some more magnets and linear bearings, i will attempt to use the seesaw principle to move the rotor, the linear bearings will be used to recreate the steorn patent, maybe i can get this to configuration to move the rotor. (One rotor design)
As you may have seen in a previous post i have mounted 2 rotors ( one above the other) 180 degrees apart ( leaving small gap at crossover points)
Thus with 2 rotors and just 2 movable stators of the 8 i have noticed that very small movements of said stators is required to get rotation and we get double the torque. Thats why i have bought much wider magnets to replace my fixed stator magnets. The idea is that they act apon both rotors at the same time. In this way when one the stator goes up, it creates the gap in the field for the bottom rotor and the other side of seesaw going down creates the gap for the upper rotor.both actions produce clockwise rotation. It works well in my head and when done by hand,we will have to see if it works in practice.
Keep us informed of your efforts, everylittle helps!
Cheers
Craig
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Well the wife has been ill so she's been sleeping it off while I have been clacking the thing.
I dont know if you caught my post on the other thread but I feel we are making these the wrong way round. There is going to be precious little power to lift/lower the stators as it is but we are trying to at least half that available power. My next experiment is going to be reversed.
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Hi all,
This seems a more practical approch to getting a torbay to work, this is a crude video of me using shielding to move a torbay rotor. For the sceptics out there i understand that doing things with my hand is not ideal, but i have 4 one inch linear bearings on order from the states which i hope will prove beyond a resonable doubt that the idea is valid. Anyway, i hope this will create some interest, Enjoy!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OPedvvRr0M
Craigy
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Looking good Craig,
I will be quite impressed if you manage to make it spin with stationary stators, but it won't be a torbay at that point. I guess you'll just have to name it if it works.
Thanks for all your hard work,
~Dingus
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Hi Craigy,
That?s a good idea, especially if you employ the Steorn shield to do the switching. In that case it bight be better to use a Minato wheel as the rotor since you get more power through the 360 degrees of rotation (until you hit the sticky spot). I like those designs because they give you power through the ramp plus an additional kick at the end. But if you can make some kind of cam or lever or something to actuate the shield right before the stator magnet reaches the sticky spot, then you've got it! The question is how much energy does it take to move the shield?
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hallo Stefan,
bei fast jedem zweiten Klick auf irgendeine Seite kommt nur eine leere Seite mit folgender Meldung:
: User 'hartiberlin1' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 70000)
/mounted-storage/home4/sub002/sc11940-GNVW/overunity/Sources/Load.php
1971
Besonders, wenn man ein "Reply" schreiben will.
Oder es kommt:
Connection Problems
Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later.
Gru?
Peter Schmalenbach
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Hi Dingus and Jason and all
Hold on , i have an idea in fabrication, Question is will or will it not work? I think it will, but 500 years of history is against me. I will post a video if it works or not.
What do i do if it works? The uk patent office say it takes 3 years to get a patent, and since it would be perpetual motion they would not give you a patent anyway.
Shall i just give the motor to the world and go back to my 9 to 5?
LOL
Craigy
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Give the technology to everyone-Then start a company to sell them on EBay. No patents, No lawyers, No problem!
You win-We win
Why would you waste 10 years in the legal process which garantee's nothing, when you could start making big money next week?
-
Even if you got a patent, China will produce them for pennies on the
dollar... If I am ever fortunate enough to discover a FE source, I
would give it away as fast as I could. Do you really think keeping
the secret of FE to yourself pays? el oh el!
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Hi guys,
I am playing with shields, But that may not be the correct term.
Now on the torbay motor i have fixed all stators and constructed a Guillotine type of mechanism that sits between rotor and Stator.
The placing of said shield is critical, as we know from some of the posts done by allcanadian. The placement detemines what lateral force is on the shield. I have aimed at equal forces on either side. This is only an approximation because of the nature of the rotor , which in my machine has 13 magnets facing the stators and of course is circular.
Now i have to critizise my own video of the test i performed. what appears to be a good demonstration of shielding is in fact a demonstration of attraction. The rotor is being attracted to the shield which moves the rotor. So what is happening on my Guillotine? I belive the same is happening.
When the shield is up and out of the way of both stator and rotor the torbay finds its neutral spot and settles there. When we drop the shield down the guillotine , its presence unsettles the magnetic field and the rotor is at first attracted by the steel shield , but as the rotor moves away from equelibrum towards the shield the other stators begin to act upon the rotor , so that the point of equelibrium is projected further clockwise so that the rotor rotates.
The energy required to move shield up and down is very small. i have used the cam i was using originally but this time without the stator lifting magnet. This cam pushes the shield down easily , timing is perhaps 10 degrees in front of the rotor ( As per standard torbay), The Shield then pops back up again because i have a spring attached that brings the shield back to vertical.
This requires tunning, the time the shield is pushed down by the cam i think affects how well this will work, but once the cam has passed by, the spring has no problem in raising the shield .
So we are not so much shielding the field as dangling a bit of steel in front of the rotor, I don't know but i feel it is a worth while avenue of investigation, so i will be making lots of little Guillotines this weekend
Wish me luck
Craigy
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Hi all , heres a photo. The shield used there was unmodified from a hard disk, apart for a hole drilled to take the spring.
Since its shape has not been determined by me, i am trying different shapes of steel. Mainly because i want the spring pulling the shield up from the side and not on top whereit is at the mo.
Craigy
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excellent work Craig, I still from time to time pop in to see what youve been doing, hats to ya.
I'm still pursuing Sms device, if your interested pop into yahoo to see my open tpu, which is a work in progress, just for your viewing.
http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/markdevice/photos/browse/3068
theres still alot of things happening on this forum regarding it.
Your doing very well.
Dom
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hey craigy,
have you tried using a double action occilating lever like in gravity motors at this site to lift or lower the shield?
lol
sam
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The shield as shown in the photo worked well when there was just one of them, when we add more and more shields the rotor has more and more to be attracted too. This may be useful in the wankel type of motor where the the electro magnet goes, will try if i get the chance to experiment.
idea is not dead yet, i have another angle to explore.
Cheers
Craigy
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This is what comes of trying to make the torbay work, in the end i have run out of options and i will have to change the confguration of the torbay. i cannot see how torbay's design could possibly work as published.
I still have a few ideas , but i must leave the standard torbay configuration behind and embark on my own designs.
Here is yet another video of my experiments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpy230xGMJY
I hope these videos help people to design their own machines learning from my mistakes
Craigy
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@craigy
I would avoid using aluminum as the shield material. I have been told that dragging a magnets field over aluminum will create eddy curents. I'm not sure wether this applies to your thin shields but I figured I would at least put it out there for someone with more knowledge to comment on. Plus I'd hate to see you start cutting them only to find out they belong in the same pile as the sheet metal shields.
Good luck and good work,
~Dingus
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Just a thought ... Stainless Steel 316L can be heated to a point that it is annealed and removes any magnetic flux ... not sure if that helps.
-
@craigy
I would avoid using aluminum as the shield material. I have been told that dragging a magnets field over aluminum will create eddy curents.
Dragging magnets over any metal with non-zero conductivity creates eddy currents in metal. This is one of the ways of shielding.
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Hi guys, i do not expect aluminum to do any real shielding as such, but i can use the mechanism to experiment a little with different materials, as mentioned in the video, for example different coins or metals etc.
But the design is flawed in so much as i have been trying to replicate the torbay, so the thing was made with a replication of the torbay in mind. Trying to add shields at this point is not ideal.
I will construct another motor which i hope will address the shield problem much better. This time i have designed the motor with shields from the outset, thus it should not suffer like the one in the video with problems in attraction.
I am awaiting parts , but i will try building a 8 horizontal shields.( Useing mumetal hard disk drive shield) The magnets would be fixed into the base and the rotor magnets would have their flux directed down over the fixed stator magnets in the base board. The shields attached to linear bearings would then slide in from the side , horizontally. Thus i hope that when a shield is not in use it would have no effect on the rotor, so the rotor maintains its torque..
We Shall see..
Craig
@craigy
I would avoid using aluminum as the shield material. I have been told that dragging a magnets field over aluminum will create eddy curents.
Dragging magnets over any metal with non-zero conductivity creates eddy currents in metal. This is one of the ways of shielding.
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Hi Craig,
Your would-be setup as you just hinted at reminds me a little bit to Igor's setup. See this link here at this Forum:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,316.msg13466.html#msg13466
I consider his setup a very interesting one and hopefully he turns up with a successfull test sooner or later. Of course i wish the same to your interesting setup too.
Gyula
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Just read the whole thread, It seems a bit lacking on the experiment / construction side. but since there is rotary input to the shield to produce rotary output from the rotor it would be easy to test. Lead wieght on a string wrapped around input, and another wieght hanging from a string on the output shaft. if the principle works 100 grams dropped from input would wind up the 100 gram wieght on the output. If that happened it would be more than 100% efficent.
I may try that approch, but i am not going to buy a big ring magnet to do it , lots of little magnets will do the job to prove the point i think. as someone mentioned on the thread, its just a simplified Torbay that does not need gravity to work. That beening the case , multiple fixed fixed magnets will do the job of proveing the concept
Don't know why the thread is a quiet one tho..People given up or something?
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Hello, this is my 1st message in Overunity forum :)
I'm interested in Torbay's invention, i've read some of the posts (not all... but I will do). I've also seen some videos.
This is the first (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2079810740321169814&q=transgenerador+magn%C3%A9tico&hl=en)
I saw it and well... I was kinda dissapointed, because under that board they could have any truck motor...
But then i saw this other (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8000023561040382342&q=transgenerador+magn%C3%A9tico&hl=en)
, and this seems to work. I dont know if anyone here has seen it, can you say what you think about this one... can this be possible?
But again i'm confused... the video is very bad taken...
I'm argentinian, so if you need any help with translations, i can do it.
Sorry if those vids are repeated.
Thanks
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Just by a chance x I was trying to understand that video last night!
to me it makes sense to see it stop dead solid, that's the way magnets instantaneously acomodate its fields don't they?
we did discuss that already, while ago
one of the phone calls i didn't make to argentina was to the science organism over there for a second time trying to find out certain lady in charge of that field of science there... nonetheless one of the reporters of the practically only one newspapers answering the phone was absolutely cooperative and kind he went the extra mile to tell me about that organism because them like everyone else got the news via cable! no one knows who interviewed torbay ........and over here in the bronx I even had trouble making to figure out were this '"sophia " institute was, to the 2 teachers i spoke to over the phone and over there they have the biggest 8) alternative energy research program there is!, no one knew anything about it!
But again fits the story of confussion and trouble described by Mark Goldess
Would you be so kind to make that phone call an interview someone there in charge of those types of discoveries in argentina?
We just won't know for sure until then , the other thing is dialing those tricky phone areas
Good luck!
-
Who made the "this another" video ?
-
I wouldn't expect it to come to a sudden stop, at the very least I would expect a little oscillation as the forces fought between flux and inertia even if only for a short time.
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Hi:
The gary motor is very simple and brilliant in it's idea , but it doesn't work.......I made the balanced one with 3 horse shoe small ceramic week magnets and iron....
try to make one and let know everyone your results....Remember it says that Gary tried and tried and is going to be the same for the experimenter....
don't go for what I say ,debunk me is the only way we are going to learn, but if it works the way is said in that link, then we will be missing something amazing
.....I hope I made a mistake somewhere....
Thank you for the link Volypok is very useful one way or another, at least I tried something before one day in the very far future geting that correct polarity half moon magnet......report back please .
Good luck to all
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Greetings, Gentlemen.
I believe http://www.hotkey.net.au/~egel/garymotor.htm (http://www.hotkey.net.au/~egel/garymotor.htm) Gary Effect Magnetic Motor may give us some hints as for how to make Torbay spin.
-
Al Francoeur claims to have gotten the Wesley Gary motor to work somewhat with
a fairly crude plywood version in this article: http://www.keelynet.com/ENERGY/GARY2001.HTM and noted that he plans to build another very accurate version. If this design works, it provides a way to turn a
magnet on and off mechanically.
Glenn
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@craig
i will buy some magnets to do torbay motor.
i think any type of magnets can use stator, but rotor is special.
which magnet i should use?
ring magnet or this? (in picture)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Neodymium-MOTOR-Magnets-43-OD-x-39-id-x-5-L-mm-N45H_W0QQitemZ6276930396QQihZ010QQcategoryZ413QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
(sorry for english)
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has anyone tried shield with torbay? craigy did, i know, but whoelse?
i think shields can create open gaps.
i think shields can be connected the rotor, before the sticky point.
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Heres my lame attempt at a Torbay type motor. I thought it would be a lot less
friction with the planets than lifting heavy stators up and down. Magnets in the planet carriers are all oriented the same way. Four magnets on rotor are N out, four on other
side are S out. It rotates similiar to Craigys videos but still takes energy to turn.
When I take the rotor out, there is very little drag on the gears. I already had the
base and planets from another project so all I had to make was the rotor.
With only 5 planets the action is a little rough. I can easily add 5 more planets
and it would probably get very smooth. Nothing magical going on here at this point!
Glenn
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Nice setup Glen
Excuse my open ramblings a moment ;D
I just had a thought regards this configuration and that is you can configure at what point the stator magnets align with the rotar magnets simply by lifting a pillar up, turning it a tooth or two and placing it back down.
I have always had this thought of pushing a magnet past the sticky point by using 2 or 3 magnets further behind the one that is stuck on the sticky point and your config might be the answer.
It is a difficult idea that is in my head and hard to explain, but imagine if you had 3 magnets in a row and the first magnet was approach another magnet in repulsion mode, then it would halt. But if the two magnets behind were passing through 2 other magnets and were on the repulsion cycle then this force would push the first magnet past the sticky point.
Like I said bit of wild idea but controlling it has always been a stumbling block in my mind, yet your configuration could be helpfull.
Anyways, well done, looks good
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yes Good work Glen, nice to see this thread is picking up steam again,
@Clanzer, I said 6 weeks ago..
I am awaiting parts , but i will try building a 8 horizontal shields.( Useing mumetal hard disk drive shield) The magnets would be fixed into the base and the rotor magnets would have their flux directed down over the fixed stator magnets in the base board. The shields attached to linear bearings would then slide in from the side , horizontally. Thus i hope that when a shield is not in use it would have no effect on the rotor, so the rotor maintains its torque..
We Shall see..
Well i got involved in the steorn thing, so didn't do much with this configuration, but unlike the first attempt with shields i think it will stand a better chance of working since no shields will interfere with the rotor, that is untill that are meant to interfere with the rotor,
The linear bearings are not as easy to use as i imagined, you really need to put stops on the rails so that the carridge does not go shooting off the end lol. Then you can make use of the full 3cm of travel, my actuators , on the steorn thread did not need a big throw so the standard mounting holes had screws in them to limit the travel, here is another pic od a 3 magnet lema, all magnets have n facing up...The actuator will fall under its own wieght, which is amazing when you think of the effort you have to use to pry these magnets apart.
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Good stuff Craigy
I like the idea of the horizontal slides and be good to see it all in place.
Know what you mean about waiting for parts to arrive, especially when coming from the states but hope to have the sliders by the time I am home next weekend and will upload some pictures.
My only concern is whether the 3cm of travel will be enough to move the magnets far enough away as I want to try 8 sliders vertically with magnets attached, but I do like the idea of the Lema's instead.
I still have this roll of Meta-Glass here and want to sandwich this inbetween some thin plexiglass to compare the shielding properties, it is a bit easier to shape rather than the heavy lump of mu from the hard drives I stripped.
Like yourself I have multi projects going on also and it is a case of flitting back and forth, but all good fun.
Again thanks for the tip on the rails, I will be carefull when they arrive as crawling around on my hands and knees trying to find little bearings is not my idea of fun LOL
Regards
Sean.
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Give up! the bearings are microscopic, and impossible to put back in without a microscope, I have the bearings now they are normaly very good and get to Tenerife in 2 weeks from the states, probably quicker to you.
I don't know what the customs limit is inthe uk nowadays , but here as long as i don't go over 30 dollars, they don't bother asking for duty. I know, that if customs get involved i have a 30 euro paperwork charge, even tho the duty is only a couple of euros, and the packet gets delayed a month...Thats why i use ebay so often, most sellers use standard post so the customs don't get involved.
Craig
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Hi Sean - yeah I know what you are saying. Some guys were calling that the Tri-Force technique a year or so ago on the Minatowheel list. I try to stay optomistic but whenever you have 2 or more magnets together, they all combine together to essentially become one magnet. Shielding can help but reduces the power because it attracts the field. Hey, if it was easy, we'd all be flying around in George Jetson skycars by now!
I can easily lift a planet and reorient it on my setup. One thing I want to try is reorient the planets with all N facing in. Then as the base turned, the field will pulsate
N,S,N,S at the center of the axle. Should be able to make some killer AC!
Another thing to try would be to try some vertical rotors. Take a look at this proposal off the Steorn - Peswiki site. Looks interesting but theres still back drag on the belts and wobble drive.
Glenn
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My little tribute to all of you hard working experimenters
Keep going.
Best of all to you.
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HI to all new to this forum but not new to this field.
A couple of coments on the Torbay after watching the video of the original.
1.It will never ever work without a disc shaped rotor magnet ,with poles through the diameter ie at curved edges not faces, any other arrangement will produce cogging.
Some people i see were/are trying to use bar/rod magnets these will just cog unless you have the stator magnets extremely close together which is a big no no.
2. The stator magnets must be a fair distance apart or the force to put them down will be huge it is not important that they are close together rather the opposite, leave a good gap between the magnets. Hence you must use the disc magnet so you can have the stator magnets sufficiently far apart to reduce the force required to reset them and avoid avoid cogging which would occur with bar/rod/array of individual magnets.
3. Timing get it right ;) A simple ramp system as Torbay used on the bottom /top of rotor disc, like a simple rollercoaster ride works well ;) no springs just rollers and the stator magnet restet force is minimal if you use the proper disc stator magnet and correct timing.
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HI to all new to this forum but not new to this field.
A couple of coments on the Torbay after watching the video of the original.
12.
Hi ,
from your message it sounds like you have a working "torbay" ????
After several failed atempts I studied his video again , and am now convinced it is a fake. Unless my efforts are way off line , I can see no way that the motor would stop dead as soon as the on/off magnet is removed. From my experiments it would rock back and forth for awhile and would stop either at the raised magnet or the hole made by the slide magnet..it doesn't do this in the video . Also he manages on one occasion to slide the magnet back into the device when the rotor magnet is right in front of the slide magnet , he does this with his finget tips , my experiments show me that it would require a lot more force than that.
The inventor does stress the importance of shapeing the magnets.. I am unable to do this , so maybe his motor realy does work and this shapeing of the magnets is the secret to it all.
I would be pleased to hear that you have been able to replicate the motor , then I could follow your advice above and try again.
cheers
Tony
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Hi Kukulcangod - did you notice any polarity reversals on the bar at the end of
the lever with small steel nails attracted to the bar falling off at the neutral line
or by checking polarity with a small compass with the bar above and below the
neutral line? That would be interesting. I have trouble understanding why the
steel bar would "change" polarity at a "neutral" line rather than just diminish in
polarity further from the magnet. It seems like all thats really happening is the
steel bar when its in front of the stationary magnet is just weakening the field
letting the balanced magnet drop. Nice video!
Glenn
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Still waiting on my sliders to come from Ebay USA this side, been over 2 weeks, so hope it is still a done deal.
But home for the weekend and managed to start work on my Rotar as shown below.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay1-clanz.jpg)
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay2-clanz.jpg)
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay3-clanz.jpg)
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay4-clanz.jpg)
I think the height of the outside ring is a little bit too high, but will be able to adjust easly enough when I have the sliders and magnets in place.
With this design I have drawn it up more around the magnets I have to hand rather than trying to squeeze the magnets into the design as such.
I have allowed alignment for each magnet at any given time which uses on 9 magnets to form the arc on the Rotar and 16 magnets on the stator. But this can be reduced on either as experimenting begins.
I have milled out the Rotar with an arm to raise the meeting magnet and used a outer ring bolted on top to lower it back into place.
As long as my sliders turn up, more updates next weekend.
Regards
Sean.
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Cool , look forward to seeing the sliders in place..That ebay site have not let me down. i have bought 3 times from them without hassle, but with distance you never can tell..
Craig
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Thanks Craigy
I also ordered some elctro magnets the same day from someone else and they have not arrived either, so not too worried, just a pain having to wait when ya want to get something up and going!!!.
Regards
Sean.
Cool , look forward to seeing the sliders in place..That ebay site have not let me down. i have bought 3 times from them without hassle, but with distance you never can tell..
Craig
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Sean
You say you ordered some electromagnets. From where can you them?
Peter
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Sean
You say you ordered some electromagnets. From where can you them?
Peter
Hi Pete
I have just checked and the guy is still selling them in lots of 4 at $4.88 each:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200074401196&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_BIN_IT&refitem=200067937803&itemcount=2&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
(http://www.tekit.seriouslyinternet.com/ebay-elec.jpg)
For sale here is one lot of four (4) cylindrical electromagnets. Each electromagnet measures 46mm in diameter and 36mm high with two 12mm protruding 4mm x .70 threaded connection terminals. Polymer body encapsulates the laminated steel wound core and includes four steel sleeved 3mm mounting holes in a rectangular configuration on 19mm by 33mm centers. The tripolar ground surface faces are additionally protected by an bonded circumferential steel band 1.75mm thick by 6.5mm deep. The cross-sectional view photo below exhibits the hermetically sealed core windings which are comprised of 132 turns of 24ga solid copper wire having a DC resistance of roughly 1.5 ohms. Zero air gap flat plate loading of one of these electromagnets will generate approximately 14lb of holding force per volt of applied EMF. For example, supplying 6VDC to one of these will exert 84 lb of lifting force. Perfect for student labs or experimentation. Higher duty cycle usage may require a drop resistor.
Hope this helps
Regards
Sean.
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Just another update.
Rather than having arms going up and down as per other designs I have opted for Slides on the back of seeing Craigy's ideas and am going to use the ones below.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/mini-rails.jpg)
I am going to mount onto the sliders magnets as below:
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay5-clanz.jpg)
Have ground down the Rotar arm to a slope
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay6-clanz.jpg)
And this should lift them when they meet.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay7-clanz.jpg)
More as I go along.
Regards
Sean.
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Sean,
Nice and clean design. Keep up the good work and good luck!!
Tim
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looking good people I have done some more work on my own device. Details and pics on my blog, I think I am getting somewhere its going to be case of fine tuning. The trouble is I dont know if it can still be called a torbay now the orientation is reversed for one thing.
-
Glenn
You deserve to know more certainly , this is just a what I can test right away as you can see is the next itteration on the gary discovery.....
Amazingly it keeps holding true....
Sorry I know this is not the forum for this topic but this one is working and on this forum we have workers not just people arguing and not jumping into action . And who knows maybe by pairing this two we might get nice results.
Anyway I will be posting on the other forum my next results .
As per the torbay I see really neat ideas about it thank you for posting , I will be posting with the classical Torbay design with no cuts on the magnets hoping this time it gets strong enough pull to move my rotor wheel , which was the problem last time ,
Obviously I consider this feat more difficult at the moment so I decided to give it a rest...........is proven to be better.
So this answers your question Glenn?
Cheers
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Hi Kukulkangod - Wowzer thats pretty cool. Theres very little done with horseshoe
magnets and I had not run into the neutral line concept anywhere else. The vid is
very convincing. Sure looks like you could turn a magnet on and off this way.
Looks like you're getting ready to try his stand up motor design. It's actually a very
sophisticated but simple design that uses magnetism, gravity, and polarity reversals
like in an electric motor. I think these polarity reversals are exactly what Tom
Bearden is calling a regauging mechanism and everything is set to zero again so the
cycle can repeat. Its starting to sink in that none of these motor designs work because they always end up being more or less symmetrical and have no effective
regauging mechanism - next to impossible to achieve in a rotary type motor. A standard bar type magnet is perfectly symmetrical. The gozintas at one end perfectly balance the gozoutas at the other. Everythings in perfect balance therefore no output. With horseshoe magnets you have instant assymmetry - duh!! With a high power neo horseshoe magnet you might get some decent power out of this design! Good luck and keep us posted. I think we need to learn all the tricks to make one of these things work!
Glenn
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Gleenn
Definitely not easy , I'm so amazed myself that I have to share it. It would save a lot of time by watching this about how to get that sleazy "neutral line" going.
I've heard of this crazy magnetic anomalies in the Bermuda triangle with compasses going crazy, In the Sidonia dessert somewhere, I've gotten dizzy by the Teotihuacan pyramids somebody told me "is because of the magnetic fields",I thought it was only bad tacos ;D...... I've even been told that when the "goat sucker" ;Dkills and left his prey the same happens to a compass over the body of the victim
But this happening to me? :o.........I guess somehow is possible after all ;)
Want to see something cool??
Best Regards
-
Hi Kuku - After a major brain fart, I think the Gary concepts could possibly
be used in the the Torbay motor. What if you replaced the retarded clunking stators with neo horsehoes facing inwards and standing on edge.
Then have two rotors mounted solidly on the same axle but separated vertically by the width of the N and S poles of the horseshoe. The top rotor would see all N poles
and the bottom all S. Might need a heavy shield between rotors. Now setup the polarity switching mechanism taking very little energy (yeah sure uh huh) to turn off or switch polarity on each horseshoe in turn, which creates the imbalance in both the top and bottom rotor simultaneously, getting twice the torque since your'e switching off both poles not just one. Voila - working asynchronous Torbay/Gary motor! :D :D Maybe still too symmetrical but you would have the permanent assymmetry created by the horseshoes. Seriously flawed I'm sure but the best I can do for one in the morning! :P
Glenn
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HI Kukulkangod and all,
i think i may understand why the torbay could possibly work and why me and many others have failed.
Magnetic viscocity
Could it be that with the neos we all use there is very little magnetic viscocity or lag as the domains of each magnet get close to one another, if we used crappy magnets, we would be able to push stators down before the magnet knew what was happening..
Craig
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Hi Craig - yeah well thats all the rage at Steorn of course. I hope its true.
I have gotten a small free roll of Mumetal tape and plan to try building up increasing
number of layers on top of some ferrite rotor magnets. Just doesn't seem like it
would make much difference. It might require spinning at high rpm before any effect
would be noticed. On the Torbay motor, it spins so slowly anyway with all the
stator magnets moving up and down.
Glenn
-
If you are going to layer Mu metal, it seems to work much better with non magnetic gaps between layers. Paper works well for this.
Give it a try
-
Hi Guys
I have been following this Torbay Magnet motor since the start of the string and love the discussion.
Y'all have hit on a subject that I am confused on MuMetal. I understand this metal to be very stronlgy atracted to a magnet, more so than plain iron. It seems to use it as a shielding would require moving it in and out of a magnetic field, wouldn't that take energy to do? Is it the presumption the energy to move the shield (MuMetal) in and out of the field will be less than the energy gained from the action and interaction of the motivating magnets.
Thanks
-
Hey MM - I would love to get into a discussion about behaviour of Mu metals but
unfortunately I am mentally handicapped in that area. According to the Law of
Conservation of Energy, you can pay me now or pay me later but you still have to pay. Steorn claims to have found a way using low viscosity magnetic materials (Mumetal?)
and varying insertion speeds on their device to cheat the system and get a rotor magnet inserted without paying too much and then get the full kick out the other side. This would be a time variant response that is not allowed under COE. All reactions under COE are supposed to be time invariant according to Noethers theorem.
Even if their device works, I can't imagine any of their jurists willing to get their
necks chopped by stating that COE is being violated. I'm guessing they will test for
years looking for any possibilities of fraud or unknown energy sources without coming up with a verdict.
Glenn
-
Sean,
Nice and clean design. Keep up the good work and good luck!!
Tim
Thanks Tim for the support.
Flew home tonight for the weekend and still no sliders :(
If they are not here tomorrow, will maybe mill out some custom made ones out of plexiglass as can always replace them later with smoother precision bearings as ordered.
Regards
Sean.
-
looking good people I have done some more work on my own device. Details and pics on my blog, I think I am getting somewhere its going to be case of fine tuning. The trouble is I dont know if it can still be called a torbay now the orientation is reversed for one thing.
Excellent Shipto, good to see others still working on it.
Can you explain the reverse angle you have gone for?
Regards
Sean.
-
Nice one kukulcangod
Would take some aligning to get the effect you are showing on a rotor, but if it could be timed right that the neutral line is hit at the right time, you do indeed have a way of switching the pole at the right time.
Regards
Sean.
Glenn
You deserve to know more certainly , this is just a what I can test right away as you can see is the next itteration on the gary discovery.....
Amazingly it keeps holding true....
Sorry I know this is not the forum for this topic but this one is working and on this forum we have workers not just people arguing and not jumping into action . And who knows maybe by pairing this two we might get nice results.
Anyway I will be posting on the other forum my next results .
As per the torbay I see really neat ideas about it thank you for posting , I will be posting with the classical Torbay design with no cuts on the magnets hoping this time it gets strong enough pull to move my rotor wheel , which was the problem last time ,
Obviously I consider this feat more difficult at the moment so I decided to give it a rest...........is proven to be better.
So this answers your question Glenn?
Cheers
-
Excellent Shipto, good to see others still working on it.
Can you explain the reverse angle you have gone for?
Regards
Sean.
OK this is where I fall short I am not good at explaining my ideas and thoughts. on the torbay concept the static magnets are on the inner rotor well on mine they are on a outer ring (dont think I have taken a photo of outer ring yet will have to do it on monday) the stators are running on a cam, you can probably make out the bearings on the inner ends of the stators which keeps them lifted in line with the outer rotor magnets and at the right moment drops it out of the field (this is where the device will need lots of tweaking) the pic shows the cam better. maybe the yabrot motor would suit LOL
-
HI:
    Glenn your idea of combination of both concepts is great it comes as a logical conclusion ,Torque to move the pole shifting bar is something to consider ,by experience only by building we will see what other unkowns are involved.
So far trying to achieve a correct balance to make something rotate like that vertical horseshoe magnet is proven to be extremely difficult , I'm ready to change to my new factory made medium horsehoe magnets, so I will keep trying with my variable setting, I got some movement some rotation but the balancing again is very tricky , just remember that 50th of an inch mentioned .......I think is very truly and unbalancing act which takes a lot of time to master.......nonetheless it might offer and idea of how this crazy compass effect occurs in nature like in Sedona Arizona.......
Cheers
-
Wow, heres something totally weird and wonderful. Was just playing with a neo and an Ace Hardware ferrite magnet this AM. If you go N to N and bring them together you get repulsion until you get them within 1/4" of each other. Then you feel the repulsion stop and go neutral.
As you bring them closer, strong attraction takes over and they stick together , N to N.
The neo is so much stronger that at close range the ferrite domains must be realligning.
Part of the Steorn effect? You can definitely see and feel the neutral line and the
polarity change. Looks like a no-energy no-brainer magnetic switch to me! Everyone
needs to try this!
Glenn
-
Hi Kukulcangod - very impressive work on the Gary motor. This would really be
fantastic to duplicate. I think that design has all the necessary elements
of using assymmetry, gravity and polarity reversals. It seems to me any self runner needs to incorporate all three. I hope I'm wrong though!
The only thing that concerns me on your build is the rigidity of the structure.
If the tuning requires a one/fiftieth of an inch motion at the neutral line then
the structure should be extremely rigid. Hope I'm wrong there too!
Glenn
-
Hey guys, I have to spill it. Its really too easy. I'm sure a lot of folks have already
figured it out and have protos running. I'm not that smart - haven't cracked a text-
book in 30 years and flunked out of college so if I can figure it out ----- ;)
(I have to call it) ta da -- The Steorn Effect for Dummies!
By playing with a Neodymium magnet and a Ferrite magnet it can be seen that
by bringing the N poles of each together in repulsion that at a certain distance
(about 3/16" in my test) the strength of the Neo magnet completely overpowers
the repulsion of the Ferrite magnet and a line of neutrality is reached where there
is no more repulsion. Moving the magnets closer together strong attraction takes
over and the magnets stick together N to N. Try it!
Now, construct a rotary motor as follows. Build a stator with four fixed ferrite magnets at 90 degree separation around the stator. The stator magnets need to be curved like those in any electric motor with N pole facing in towards the rotor. Also, they should be relatively thin again like in an electric motor. They need to sweep out about 45 degrees of arc each so around the stator there are four equal gaps of 45 degrees each. This creates four equal sections of magnets and four gaps.
Now build the rotor. This time four neodymium magnets at 90 degree angles to each
other around the rotor also curved and thin, N pole facing out. The rotor magnets should sweep out lets say 10 degrees of arc each (just a guess for now). Real simple so far. Now heres the main detail: Rotor magnets should be FREE TO SLIDE RADIALLY INWARDS on a shaft towards the center of the hub but should have a mechanical stop so they are prevented from just quite reaching the neutral line of the stator magnets.
Now mechanically spin up the rotor using an electric starter motor. At a certain
rpm, the rotor magnets will go to the stops due to centrifugal force. The stops are set so the rotor magnets will enter the field of the stator magnets just inside the
neutral line so experience a very small repulsion as they enter. Now disengage the starter.
As the rotor starts to slow down slightly, it reaches a speed where the stator magnets can now start to repel the rotor magnets inward. As the neo rotor magnet rotates in to the ferrite stator, it is coming in very fast (think magnetic lag) and just inside the preestablished neutral line. Very little force required to enter the field of the ferrite stator magnet. As the rotor magnet rotates into the field of the stator just inside the neutral line the magnetic lag of the ferrite stator takes over and starts to repel the rotor magnet inward towards the hub. The rotor magnet is only 10 degrees wide and has 45 degrees of arc to travel past each stator before it reaches a gap. During this period it is moving further and further inwards due to repulsion from the stator.
Now heres the fun part. What happens to a figure skater when she spins and pulls
her arms in - yeah thats right - turns into a blur. So as the rotor magnets move
inward, the rotor speeds up (woohoo).
Now, as you place a load on the shaft, the rotor starts to slow down again. Time
everything just right with the appropriate rpm and load and the rotor magnets will have just enough time to slide out to the stops during the 45 degree gap between stator magnets and we're ready for the next power cycle. Also, this is happening four times simultaneously around the rotor. So we have assymmetry, polarity changes (goes to near zero at the neutral line), and we're using centrifugal force to do the polarity changes. Simple huh?
The rotor is speeding up and slowing down four times each revolution. Basically
the Wesley Gary effect in rotation. Sixteen power pulses per revolution.
The rotor magnet at 10 degrees of arc can probably be increased in width to 20,
30 or more degrees. Also, the power of the motor can be easily increased simply
by making a longer cylinder with longer magnets (in the direction of the shaft) just like an electric motor. Everything easily scalable. Note to self: Sell that Exxon-Mobil stock first thing Monday morning!
Glenn
-
Well Linear slides still not turned up so started to Mill Out some sliders from PlexiGlass until my dust extraction unit blew up grrrrrrrr.
Managed to get one nearly finished as shown below, but the width is going to be to bulky on my small rig, so will wait for the sliders to turn up. They should fit snuggly behind the arms and not increase the width past 25mm for each arm.
So another weekend gone and back off away to work during the week, hopefully next weekend I will have the sliders and manage to get it more towards completion.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/Pslide1.jpg)
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/Pslide2.jpg)
I was going to cutout and mount on base piece of PlexiGlass before the Bang!
Regards
Sean.
-
Hi Glenn
I found this as well a couple of months ago while playing and must admit still reckon there is a use for it.
Check the link below.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1589.0.html
Regards
Sean.
Wow, heres something totally weird and wonderful. Was just playing with a neo and an Ace Hardware ferrite magnet this AM. If you go N to N and bring them together you get repulsion until you get them within 1/4" of each other. Then you feel the repulsion stop and go neutral.
As you bring them closer, strong attraction takes over and they stick together , N to N.
The neo is so much stronger that at close range the ferrite domains must be realligning.
Part of the Steorn effect? You can definitely see and feel the neutral line and the
polarity change. Looks like a no-energy no-brainer magnetic switch to me! Everyone
needs to try this!
Glenn
-
Glenn,
Can you repost you story with some visual examples plz? :-\
Namely, I almost got it...I guess
-
Hi Sean - thanks for the link - looks like the real deal to me. Whats really cool with
this is that you can construct the mag field so that there is increasing repulsion the
further you separate the magnets (in a narrow zone just outside the neutral line).
I think this is fantastic as it allows the magnet to enter the field with little energy expended and then be accelerated away with added energy. Thats just not normal!
The domains are all realligning in the weaker ferrite magnet acting just like transistor
switches. At the neutral line, all switches are turned off. Just outside the neutral line, some of the switches turn on. A little further and more are turned on. At the outer limit of the zone, all switches are turned on and you have reached maximum repulsion. Outside this zone, there is just the normal diminishing repulsion with distance. This outer area is what we have been trying to use for years with no practical results.
Another cool thing is that there should be hundreds of different configurations that can use this technique! No doubt Steorn is trying to get patents on as many configurations as possible.
Theres no way they can patent them all though. All you have to do is think of one they didn't and you'll be rich and famous on top of saving the planet!
Glenn
-
sooo, you want to be rich and famous... ;D
-
sorry to burst your bubble, but the neutral line encompasses the magnet completely, it's not a straight line at right angles to the end of the magnet that would enable you to slip in the other magnet. it follows the end of the magnet around it. You still have to overcome the repulsion that you then want to use as a power source.
regards
Albert
-
What about sliding the neo magnet in from the side of the ferrite magnet at the proper distant for the neutral effect to occur instead of coming directly from the top. (OOPs.. I see that already mentioned by Albert above..) Once it is on top of the ferrite back it off which then starts the repel effect. A bit of mechanical design work but I might have an idea of how to do this.. Hummm.. Off to the shop to find that bucket of mixed magnets.... always fun to find an excuse to play even if it is to check out what Albert says about the sliding effect... Hope he is wrong..
Later,
tom
-
Well I spent a few minutes trying to slide the neo over the ferrite. Seems to take as much energy to slide as to push. ??? I can 'feel' the neutral point so that exist. Maybe if the magnets were specially shaped... :-[ Too bad.. I was hoping this would be an easy solution. :'(
-
Hi Al - This is why Steorn is always talking about inserting the magnet at high speed
to use the lag effect, to do the insertion before the ferrite has time to react. Just
pushing them in by hand isn't going to cut it. They're talking about insertion speeds of 30 us (thats millionths). Thats moving right along folks! Thats why nobody had discovered the effect before now. Its gonna be a real bitch to get this to work on the kitchen table! Also, keeping the magnets very thin could be helpful to reduce the edge repulsion, also a back side stator plate like in electric motors.
Steorn does not claim theres no work required to do the insertion. Supposedly they have to put in one unit of work to get two units out even after tuning for maximum effect. Thats another reason why the motor needs to be spun up first.
This is where the violation of time variance of COE is the big issue! Per COE, the
speed of insertion shouldn't matter.
Glenn
-
With Neo to neo the lag time is very very fast but with ferrite or alinco or your crappy fridge magnet the lag increases considerably to the order of 10-20 microseconds all depends on just how crappy the magnet is. Magnet viscocity is a well known and documented effect, how else would you design a solunoid..., the permeability of the core or how long it takes to magnetize is its lag, which also determines whether you want a fast acting one or a slow acting one..
Stick a fridge magnet on a piezo sounder, attach piezo sounder to channel one of a scope, then using a few turns of wire create a coil and stick above the magnet. Apply power to coil and measure the voltage rise on the scope at the same time as watching the reaction from the magnet. its not impossible to do if you have a scope handy
Cheers
Craig
-
So the idea here is to 'spin it up' like a starter on a car and once it gets to speed remove the starter and the motor produces self sustaining rotation due to mass and momentum to get to the neutral spot of the first magnet before it has time to react. After the first or second magnet slowly space the next magnets to push away the approaching magnet. The 'push' produces more energy then the energy to get the approaching magnet to the starting neutral spot. Interesting. Maybe that explains why prototypes like Lutec's that 'supposely' work but when they go bigger and better it does not. They start using stronger magnets that have faster Magnet viscocity so they fail... Sounds like a good excuse to me.. ;D .. Anyway that could also explain a few other videos like the one at http://www.cycclone.com/ where they have to spin up the motor to get it to self run... (if it really does work..) So maybe the Steorn idea is not such a new idea after all.. Later, Tom :)
-
Hi Tom - Yeah, well sorta like that, mostly I guess! There are quite a few devices
that require a starter to achieve "resonant" speed. That is, the device will not operate at all or operate efficiently below a certain rpm. This is very common. Even your automobile engine will not run below 400 rpm. The Lutec and Cycclone devices both require starters. Just because the device has a starter does not disqualify it from being a potential free energy producer.
For a little more info on the Lutec device, there is an article here:
http://www.web-space.tv/free-energy/
This is a huge and fabulous site and attempts to explain just about every free energy device out there with excellent graphics. You could spend months on this site and still not get thru it all! An advertisement page comes up in German initially and you have to scroll down to the bottom of the page and hit the highlighted link to continue. The Lutec article is under "Devices Part 8".
Glenn
-
For a little more info on the Lutec device, there is an article here:
http://www.web-space.tv/free-energy/
WOW !!. Great link Glenn. That will keep me busy reading for awhile ;)
Thanks..
-
Well another weekend gone and not alot of progress yet again as the sliders from Ebay have not turned up grrrrr. I have emailed the guy 3 times but no reply, so looks like I have been ripped off there.
Have emailed THK in the UK for a quote, so will get thme one way or another.
I tried out using another design to replace the sliders using square brass section as shown below.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/sqlift1.jpg)
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/sqlift2.jpg)
Not impressed with the sliding effect, even though it is very loose if you lift the magnet exactly center, it is not so clever when the rotar approaches from the side it tends to stick. But hey all part of the experiment!
Have also now gone for two options on the rotor to lift each magnet, a ramp close to the floor and also inserted a thread to use a wheel if the ramp causes too much friction.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/sqlift3.jpg)
More updates next weekend!
Regards
Sean.
-
I know the feeling about not getting things done as quick as you would like. I finally got a lathe 2 weeks ago and thought I would have a go at making some better pivots but havent found time. I really need to get my various projects sorted out as I am currently working on getting house sorted, getting drive sorted, my overunity device and am planning a wind turbine too. I do have all the jigs and parts cut for my pivots just need to get some time to turn them down now.
-
I know the feeling about not getting things done as quick as you would like. I finally got a lathe 2 weeks ago and thought I would have a go at making some better pivots but havent found time. I really need to get my various projects sorted out as I am currently working on getting house sorted, getting drive sorted, my overunity device and am planning a wind turbine too. I do have all the jigs and parts cut for my pivots just need to get some time to turn them down now.
Excellent, What lathe did you buy?
I bought a Mini Lathe last year and well pleased with it and not a bad price, it is the Warco WD250.
Regards the wind turbine have you seen these sweet generators this guys been selling on ebay.
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZbella-vegaQQhtZ-1
Regards
Sean.
-
Nice little lathe, CLaNZeR
Mine is a 12 X 36 Champion off of a WW II Navy ship. Note drill press I mounted on back of lathe for lite milling and keyways.
Dave
-
wow nice lathe clanzer much better than my little clarke http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cl250m-metal-lathe (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cl250m-metal-lathe) but its good enough for what I need. I like the vintage one too it will probably outlast both mine and clanzer's. I have some old three phase motors at work that I am going to modify for my wind turbine. It will be kind of a piss off if I can get them generating a decent amount because we had about 25 of these to be thrown away and I only saved 2.
-
That little lathe is ideal mate for making small stuff.
Just being able to drill straight holes through round metal bars and making spacers is just so easy compared to trying it with a normal drill.
Must agree with you though Idnicks lathe survived the war and will probably out live us all !! ;D
Flying home tonight so got a clear weekend to get out and play with my machines.
The sliders have not turned up and THK wanted ?900 for 16 of them ouch :(, so Plan 2 in place now and use brass levers.
Regards
Sean.
wow nice lathe clanzer much better than my little clarke http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cl250m-metal-lathe (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cl250m-metal-lathe) but its good enough for what I need. I like the vintage one too it will probably outlast both mine and clanzer's. I have some old three phase motors at work that I am going to modify for my wind turbine. It will be kind of a piss off if I can get them generating a decent amount because we had about 25 of these to be thrown away and I only saved 2.
-
Hi:
I have made a little effort to find out more about Mr Torbay's wereabouts and progress hopefully my friends in Argentina be able to locate him at his very home and interview him, but not even them were very aware of this ideas ,invention, life is a different reality over there certainly.
Cheers
-
Well after 12 hours of the CNC Router going, grinding, glueing and tapping, here is the next update with pictures:
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay8-clanz.jpg)
Above the brass hasp hinges I am now using, due to sliders not arriving!
Wish I never went for such a big rotor as cutting 16 of everything is so boring grrrrrrr
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay9-clanz.jpg)
Above trying to get a picture with all arms down, nearly impossible without the top hat in place, the Magnetic Flux gate is very strong using Neos, must admit.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay10-clanz.jpg)
Close up of the magnet holders and the plexi wheel that lifts each magnet. Need to replace this with a little wheel.
Well that is Saturday out of the way and tomorrow I will work on cutting out the 16 wheels to fix to each riser and getting the Top Hat installed, then we shall see if it runs.
The configuration allows alot of play and adjustment, I am tempted to mill out a new rotor and get rid of the arm, then just drill the rotor and insert an axle for the lifting wheel. This would bring the gap between each stator magnet closer, but will experiment more when all is in place.
Off for a glass of wine and crash in front of the TV for tonight ;D
Regards
Sean.
-
Clanzer, shame about the bearings, didn't realise they were that expensive tho..Blimey
-
Hello Sean
This looks realy after lots of work.And very proffessional.
If i have watched your wheel first,i told myselfe that it must also be Possible
to give the Rotorwheel a excentric shape and push the outside magnets,which are mounted on a linear bearing ,away from the rotormagnets,to have a magnetic gate.
But after thinking it over,i am not shure that it would work.
regards
Helmut
-
Well ran out of time this weekend again as family grabbed me for other task around the house!, and did not get round to milling out the wheels.
Got the top hat on as shown below though, but without the wheels the friction is too great, even though the wheel turns by hand okay and you can feel the kick of the magnets. Think they still may have to come closer to the rotor to create more force.
I feel I have got the bottom lifting bar in the correct place as not much force is needed to make each arm lift, the bottom lifiting bar has just got to slightly touch the bottom of each riser and along with the top hat aligned to allow clearance and the force of the rotor magnets, they fly upwards very easy.
It is the friction of each riser against the top hat I see as being the problem.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/torbay11-clanz.jpg)
More next weekend.
Regards
Sean.
-
Hi Helmut
You are probably correct the same as many other peoples theories, but it is fun building it and if anything it proves to myself if it works or not.
Regards
Sean.
Hello Sean
This looks realy after lots of work.And very proffessional.
If i have watched your wheel first,i told myselfe that it must also be Possible
to give the Rotorwheel a excentric shape and push the outside magnets,which are mounted on a linear bearing ,away from the rotormagnets,to have a magnetic gate.
But after thinking it over,i am not shure that it would work.
regards
Helmut
-
Looks positively art deco Sean. Never thought door hinges could be so
attractive! One thing I'm wondering about is the segmented rotor magnets.
Several posters have indicated that something needs to be done about the
back side attraction of the rotor magnets and seem to think this is one of
the "secrets" of the Torbay device - using a continuous curved magnet.
I don't understand why that would make such a difference but maybe you
could try adding a curved steel plate to short out the back side attraction spins.
I would love to see this one working!
Glenn
-
Looking good so far, you obviously had more time to yourself than me this weekend I was busy with doors and frames. The one bit of time I got was spent turning down the plastic rotor for my generator.
Will really have to try to put some time into my ou experiment.
-
Hi All:
Sean the design is so convenient , you can regulate everything, being see through also lets you see more accurately how to do so.Is just an exquisit design.
I really hope it works that way , but what are you using for inertial force? what type of flywheel?, I think that is also a critical part, in your design I see that it can be a rised wheel which will allow you to keep seeing the adjustments.
Is definitely a good sign that is running as expected at least by hand, can wait to see results,because with ceramics I'm arranging the magnets like yours ,hopefully this time they will be strong enough to run the flywheel, and also will proof if we have a runner or not.
Thank you for posting your great work , is very inspirational
Good Luck
-
Hi Glenn
On the Rotor I have used 9 * 19mm square flat neos and they are end to end with North facing outwards, If I run a magnet around it does seem to form a continious force as expected, so hoping it does not make a difference.
I know what you are saying about have an arced magnet as the original Torbay, but to tell you the truth I think it is more to do with the kick you get at the end of the arc that drives it forwards and also the sticky point is at the front of the arc that is gotten around by the lifting of the first magnet each time.
If I use my hands without the top hat to control the Levers, it does indeed have a fair kick to drive it forward and easly lift the first magnet and so on, which gives it alot of promise. It is reducing the friction on the top hat that will be the test I reckon.
I am going to cut out some wheels, but would love to find a supplier of small 12-14mm wheels that have a small 3mm bearing.
I am also tempted to replace the wheel that lifts the front magnet with a magnet so it pushes it up and that way we reduce the friction as well, it will create another sticky point but that should be minimal.
Will play more when back this weekend.
Regards
Sean.
Looks positively art deco Sean. Never thought door hinges could be so
attractive! One thing I'm wondering about is the segmented rotor magnets.
Several posters have indicated that something needs to be done about the
back side attraction of the rotor magnets and seem to think this is one of
the "secrets" of the Torbay device - using a continuous curved magnet.
I don't understand why that would make such a difference but maybe you
could try adding a curved steel plate to short out the back side attraction spins.
I would love to see this one working!
Glenn
-
Hi kukulcangod
I do not understand what you mean when you as what am I using for the inertial force?
It is probably me being thick again!! ;D
Glad you like the design though. I need to re-design my web site and section it off because it has now too many pictures on just one page, when I do the Torbay section I will post all the Gcode files(Milling machine format) and dimension files so people can have a go at building it themselves.
Regards
Sean.
Hi All:
Sean the design is so convenient , you can regulate everything, being see through also lets you see more accurately how to do so.Is just an exquisit design.
I really hope it works that way , but what are you using for inertial force? what type of flywheel?, I think that is also a critical part, in your design I see that it can be a rised wheel which will allow you to keep seeing the adjustments.
Is definitely a good sign that is running as expected at least by hand, can wait to see results,because with ceramics I'm arranging the magnets like yours ,hopefully this time they will be strong enough to run the flywheel, and also will proof if we have a runner or not.
Thank you for posting your great work , is very inspirational
Good Luck
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" I am going to cut out some wheels, but would love to find a supplier of small 12-14mm wheels that have a small 3mm bearing"
Hi Sean, why couldn't you use a non-flanged bearing as a wheel. This one is very
close with a 1/2" OD and 3/16" ID. If you really want minimum friction, this one would
do it! Kinda spendy tho! Stainless steel/ceramic hybrid. Could make all the difference
between working and not!
http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=product&id=2854&n=SR3C-2RS_#3
Glenn
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Ouch 16 of those becomes expensive. Also I wanted to stay away from steel bearings as they are close to the magnets.
I have used brass everywhere so far and the only steel in the whole machine is the main center bearing.
I have sourced some 15mm Solid Acrylic Rod that I will chop up for wheels and then lathe some brass rod down to create the bush inserts for the center.
Also I reckon if I say chop the 15mm wheels to say 6mm thick and then lathe them down on the outside to say 2mm will create less friction on the contact point with the top hat.
Thanks for the link though, handy for other things.
Regards
Sean.
Hi Sean, why couldn't you use a non-flanged bearing as a wheel. This one is very
close with a 1/2" OD and 3/16" ID. If you really want minimum friction, this one would
do it! Kinda spendy tho! Stainless steel/ceramic hybrid. Could make all the difference
between working and not!
http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=product&id=2854&n=SR3C-2RS_#3
Glenn
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I meant the top hat has to be heavy for it to pick up enough momentum to overcome any frictional forces, allowing continuous rotation.
Cheers
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I have setup a link at http://www.overunity.org.uk called Other Torbay Replications and populated the page with photos and movie links from the two Torbay threads in these forums.
If I have placed your images up on the site and you do not want them up there, then please let me know and I will remove, just thought it would be nice to collate the pictures from this huge thread into one place.
Thank Gawd for WIFI in hotel rooms!
Regards
Sean.
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Ahh know what you mean now !
Not really thought about the weight to give it momentum, the rotor is fairly heavy with the load of the magnets but will have a play and can easly mill it out of aluminium if it is looking promising. Or for now mount something onto it as such.
Regards
Sean.
I meant the top hat has to be heavy for it to pick up enough momentum to overcome any frictional forces, allowing continuous rotation.
Cheers
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I have setup a link at http://www.overunity.org.uk called Other Torbay Replications and populated the page with photos and movie links from the two Torbay threads in these forums.
If I have placed your images up on the site and you do not want them up there, then please let me know and I will remove, just thought it would be nice to collate the pictures from this huge thread into one place.
Thank Gawd for WIFI in hotel rooms!
Regards
Sean.
on the contrary I feel honoured to be included, good work with the page.
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I have something suspicous to report. I am in Thailand and the site http://www.icyti.ar.gs/ is being blocked by the Thailand ICT (Ministry of Information and Communications Technolgy) using Torpark I see that there is no or gambling or criticism of the government on that site, which are the usual reasons for blocking sites here. Any ideas why this should be, anyone?
Looks like this is a worker,, my 2 cents. I have read a lot of this thread but i didnt see any successful replication,, did i miss this? anyone got any where near?
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Hi Everyone!
This is my first time to post on Magnet Motor from Argentina 2
My hoby is electricity and magnetism for many years.
Then I read about W.Torbay Transgenerator.
Many years ago I had idea about (something close to W.T.Transgenerator),
Magnetic motor, powered by ROTATING STATOR.
As with magnets, we know, that whatewer we do with them, they always
tend to find "parking spot" e.a. lockup position, as long as magnets are in stationary
(balanced) position. Torbay did overcome this by introducing unbalance in
magnet`s system. When I look at his motor, I see stator magnets and arms as a ROTOR. ::)
What I see till now, nobody was able to figure sequence of raising and lowering
stator arms to achive continuos rotation. I dont think that is a problem. When I
look at W.T.video, I guess what is hiden in the base. Main rotor have another
plate attached to it and on that plate is another magnet which is lifting stationary
stator arms. You can see magnets on stators lower arms clearly when they
are lifted. Think what we have till now. Stator is constantly creating space which
is immidiately trying to be occupied by leading edge of movable rotor.
Well, problem is how to lower stator arm into approaching rotor`s path. Remember magnet in base? This magnet is key to continuos rotation. It may be mounted down on plate, but may be embeded right into rotor shaft. This choice depend on stator`s arm design. When stator arm is kicked out of ring, slot in rotor cap alow it
to fully raise, whell on top of stator arm LOCKS into grove for an instant and then forces arm down in position,with downward slot ONE POSITION before leading edge of rotor. You see, that arm going down is working against weary weak force field of rotor. Trick is, that moment BEFORE arm reaches low position, Next stator arm is forced up into now open rotor cap slot, whell locks, arm goes down and process continues.Many of you will ask question:"why we lock arm into rotor cap"?
Guess,when arm is kicked up, there is no force to hold it there, arm will
fall down and we do not want this to happen.
As I mentioned, magnet wich lifts arm and downward pressure from rotor cap needs
force. Did you notice from where this force is generated?
Did you notice, when stator arm is forced down, it is LOCKED in down position by
rotor cap and then gradually lifted (pushed) for 3 stator magnets lengths, against
rotor cap, which is gradually sloped UPWARDS. This upward force is helping rotor
to turn smothly. Where is upward force comming from? Yes, from N-N repulsion.
Torbay mentioned N-N configuration, but fields will be much stronger if S-S
configuration is used.
I hope this post will help many of you who spend countless hours traying to figure out this Torbay motor. Many people were wery close to acheive building W.T.
device especially OMNIBUS and MRD10.
Go people, this device is so close.
As for myself, I am building this motor and I will post and share my progress on
this Forum.
God bless
Frank
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Hi Frank
I think you actually have a good point there and with this in mind I have just spent sometime looking at the pictures again and keeping what you said in my mind.
In the picture below it does show that indeed the wheels are not touching the lid but are firmly down.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/images/Torbay_Motor_Closeup_2.jpg)
Also in this clip at 1:15 into the movie it shows the arms snapping down, again without them hitting the lid.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6530358947613135242&q=transgenerador
One last thing, also I see now looking at the video a few times in the arms actually seem to end up below the Arc magnet like at timeline 0.44
With my replication, like many others was the force needed to push the magnets back down against the Arc magnet. The lifting was not a problem because the front magnet pushed the arms up.
Now thinking if it was in attraction mode the magnets would snap down, but you would need the power to lift the magnets. But could not see that the attraction of the first magnet coming down would be enough energy to pull the Arc magnet out of the rest of the arms, unless because the arm magnets are lower then this does create a weak spot.
I like the idea of another plate below to pull them down and still use the repulsion mode though.
Look forward to hearing more Frank and welcome to the forums
Regards
Sean.
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Hi ClaNZeR
You mentioned problem with lowering stator arm into path of approaching
leading edge of rotor.
I think, that is no problem at all. Remember, IF YOU LIFT THE STATOR ARM with leading edge of rotor, then you will not be able to lower it against second rotor magnet. System must be unballanced at all time, otherwise, "dead spot".
Lets review this problem again. Look at the stator as a ROTOR. As opening is
moving one space, rotor is following it. To lift stator arm, use magnet in repulsion
mode mounted two spaces before first rotor magnet (one on second plate under
stator plane). Now you have TWO spaces to lift stator arm, then to lower it.
Magnet goes up into opening in rotor cap, it is holded up or locked up
for length of time, till length if one magnet passes by, then it is dropped down
right into space not yet occupied by first rotor magnet. I think that is most critical
part of motor. You lower stator magnet right into space NOT yet occupied by
first rotor magnet. To do that, dont use anything than weight of arm and help from
downward slot in the rotor cap. When this magnet reach lower position, first rotor
magnet have ONE MORE magnet lenght to continue to chase rotor. When rotor magnet travel one more length, new stator magnet is allready down in the front of it.
I think, that is only way to make this motor working. Dont use any pair of magnets
in attraction mode. Remember, stator must be down BEFORE first rotor magnet
reaches it.
By the way, did you see sticky tape magnet on the rotor?
Well, it has enough power to hold utility bill on the refrigerator door. Magnets used
on rotor_well it could be 3 of them, mayby 4 or 5. So, does not matter how close
you mount them together, rotor will allways try to get locked on lobes of magnetic
fields between them. So, stick tape magnet over them, facing stator. you will see
that lobes almost disappear. That means, rotor has nice smooth ride, chassing the
stator.
God bless
Frank
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Any updates???
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Hi All
In one more month one of my argentinian friends will try to find out more about Torbay at his city , appararently the goverment help was just not enough and he is stuck as well...........but need to confirm it somehow.
I guess everyone is like, I'm busy and ..........I need the right stuff, like the half moon magnet being the right polarity and powerfull enough to move everything around
I'm still at it.............let's see who get it to run first ;D
Cheers..........see ya at the beach!!!
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MABEY, ILL SEE YOU THERE. AS SOON AS I GET MY MAGNET MOTOR TO RUN.
LOL,
SAM
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Hello, this is my first post to overunity. I am fasinated by magnets and what they can do. I have come across this thread and the videos and see some interesting things.
1) partial replications show that in principle you can get the rotor to move to the unoccuppied space if a stator is lifted out of place.
2) non of the replication attempts I have seen have lids on them.
3) uncertainity about how to move the stators.
I am also skeptical about the large base but here are my thoughts.
1) The stators to rotor are opposing north faces
2) The stators are lifted by a rod on the bottom of the rotor(this is seen on the video as a white circle. This is also why the stator wood blocks are cut at an angle.
3) the lid is for pushing down the magnets when the stator is in the middle of the rotor magnet (roughly)
4) The stators are placed close enough together as to act as one magnet- 3 stators at a time
I will be trying a replication and will send pictures. Don't hold your breath though I am a slow worker.
A question.
Can I use curved steel/iron as the face of the magnets rather than curve the magnets themselves? I am thinking of putting a bunch of small neo's north faces to the curved steel maximizing the number of magnets to limit any hot spots in the steel face. I am thinking of doing this both for the stator and the rotor. This should make the steel face also north, yes?
emitremmah - hammertime
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My replication is under way. :)
I have the rotor and 6 stators. It has taken about 4 hours so far and looks very, very promising at this point. Hopefully I will post pictures tomorrow night.
I have used Balsa wood blocks for the stators and have used all sorts of bits and bobs for the rotor.
I am at the point of lifting the stator and am using a credit card but the edge is to sharp. :(Tomorrow I will be attaching a dowel to the edge of the card.
This is truely a non engineered product all parts are off the self.
I am aiming to replicate the motor in the videos not the prototype metal looking one. I am trying to stay away from any materials that may be metal.
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As stated, I have uploaded some images of my work in progress of the Torbay Motor.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,917.msg32039.html#msg32039 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,917.msg32039.html#msg32039)
This has been posted to another topic on this board supposedly for replications though I don't see anayone trying.
I am still not disuaded from completeing it. It is showing some promise.
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GREETINGS, EVERYONE. ATSTURBO HERE. I HAVE WORKED ON VARIOUS OVERUNITY IDEAS FOR THE PAST 12 YRS OR SO. I HAVE WATCHED THE TORBAY CONCEPT AND HAVE ONE NOTICABLE CONCERN--MAYBE I AM JUST A BIT SCEPTICAL, BUT IF YOU WATCH THE VIDEO OF HIS UNIT 'WORKING' YOU WILL NOTICE THE ROTOR IMMEDIATELY STOPS WHEN THE 8TH MAGNET IS REMOVED. EITHER HIS TIMING IS IMPECCABLE, OR SOMETHING IS MOTORIZED. THERE SHOULD BE SOME 'CENTERING' OR 'BACKLASH' OF THE ROTOR TRYING TO FIND THE WEAK FIELD WHEN HE PULLS THE MAGNET OUT. BUT THE DEVICE IMMEDIATELY STOPS WITHOUT A SINGLE ADDITIONAL MOVEMENT. MAYBE THE SPINNING OF THE SMALL GENERATOR ON TOP OF THE UNIT DAMPENS THE MOVEMENT, BUT I HAVE BUILT AT LEAST TWENTY SIMILAR UNITS OVER THE YEARS AND ALL OF THEM WILL ROCK BACK AND FORTH IF THE FLUX FIELD IS BROKEN AS IT CFENTERS ON THE WEAKEST OR STRONGEST FIELD. WITH ONE MAGNET LIFTED AND ANOTHER REMOVED, THE ROTOR SHOULD 'SEARCH' FOR THE BREAK IN THE FLUX FIELD. IT SIMPLY STOPS ON A DIME. I HOPE I AM WRONG, BUT LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. IF I INVENTED THIS, I COULD GET FUNDING IMMEDIATELY, AND WE HEAR NOTHING NEW FROM ARGENTINA SINCE '04.
SOMEONE TELL ME IF I AM OVERLOOKING SOMETHING IN THE MOVEMENT OF THE ROTOR. ALSO, WHY WAS THE UNIT INOP WHEN BROUGHT TO NEW YORK?
I HATE TO BE THE SCEPTIC. :(
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I think you like being a sceptic, you do it so well.
I agree for a free wheeling evice that it will usually always move to find equilibrium before coming to rest. But the device seen in the video is not free wheeling.
It is set up to drive other devices. There is gearing attached at the top to attach to a generator or other device. The rotor being made of hardwood and if truely an magnetic arc segment and not magnetic tape; as suggested by some, would give the unit a bit of mass. These things in combination could easily cause the rotor to stop instantaneously. There are many ways this device could be a fraud but unless someone reproduces this device and not some fancy better or different device then who is to say it is a fake. Getting funding is not nearly as easy as getting paid off/ threatened not to continue. There is far more money and power from existing sources that would lose out than from any simple investor with money.
Replicate or deficate!! **** or get off the pot.
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I ACTUALLY WANT THIS THING TO WORK. I HAVE TRIED FOR OVER A DECADE TO BUILD OU UNITS WITH NO REAL RESULTS. I HAVE A COMPLETE MACHINE SHOP, AND HAVE TO DATE BUILT 200+ DIFFERENT OU DEVICES. I HAVE MADE WESLEY MACHINES, TOMI, MINATO WHEELS, ETC. I HAVE SOME PROMISING IDEAS, BUT I ALWAYS LOOK TO SEE WHY SOMETHING CANT WORK JUST TO SAVE TIME. PERENDEV SEEMS LIKE A FRAUD TO ME--ALWAYS PROMISING, NEVER DELIVERING. I BELIEVE OU IS POSSIBLE, AS I HAVE A PATENT PENDING ON A MAGNETIC DEVICE THAT MAKES MORE FORCE OUT THAN IN, BUT HAVE NOT FIGURED A WAY TO ADAPT MY MACHINE FOR PRACTICAL PURPOSES. IT IS 50-66% MORE THRUST OUT THAN IN ON A 1" MOVEMENT, AND I CAN DUPLICATE IT. I MAY TRY TO USE IT TO LEVERAGE THE MAGNETS ON THE TORBAY UNIT.
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Well, that's more like it. But why do you KEEP YELLING!!! Have you shared why things don't work? What your experiences are? I don't have a machine shop and can't even drill a straight hole through the blocks yet. But I know I can use just 4 stators. at say 9,11,1,3 o'clock. Release the rotor at 9'oclock and it will have enough energy to lift the stator at 3 o'clock. So until I get more stators swinging up then I will have to rig something to put them back down at the right timing. I am currently thinking of using popsicle sticks to do this.
I have seen some nice turntable and styrofoam wheels that show some promise also but one thing at a time.
I actually think that the final key will be to be able to release the stored electron spin energy by means of some type of frequency emission.
I feel the flux field around a magnet it feels like a soap bubble. If the surface tension can be reduced then the energy trapped inside can escape and be harnessed for other things. But I digress. :D
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H all ,, just to let you know that http://club.telepolis.com/LICYTA/DIFUSION.htm is blocked in Thailand also. Nice to see your still hammering away at it. Looking forward to successfull replication.
Regards all and keep up the good work.
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Hi all...i found this forums searching for some info about motors for a project ;D
im really impressed!
by the way, im from Argentina, if you have any question, or need a translation, just ask and ill try to answer...
David
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Hi all!
Just wondering? Did everyone give up on Torbay motor?
This forum is awfully quiet. >:( I was expecting some
reply`s on my posts, but looks to me, that everyone
lost interest in W.T. motor. I am still around and still
working on this motor.
God bless
Frank
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@Frank,
Glad that you're continuing the exploration. I assure you that the interest in Torbay motor is as fresh as ever. I don't think that the relative quiet in this topic is any indication for loss of interest. Good luck with your experiments. Eagerly waiting for new results from you.
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I'm quitely reading and cheering on all the Torbay builders...
No loss of interest here,
~Dingus Mungus
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So am I Dingus Mingus. And no news about Torbay either.....could this mean the Torbay device is a write off?
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I don't think so... There has only been a few proof of concept replication attempts thus far and we haven't heard any thing new from the inventor. This thread is just quiet due to all the inventor cooperation being recieved in other threads. Lots of other devices much closer to full disclosure.
~Dingus Mungus
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Hello everyone.
I am interested im knowing/geting this software for simulating the magnetic forces.
How can I get it?
Response to the forum or my e-mail coelhotiag@gmail.com.
Tanks
Tiago
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http://femm.foster-miller.net/wiki/HomePage
Enjoy!
~Dingus Mungus
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Hi all! ;)
I will start to post progress on motor design.
First picture is base layout.
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Second picture is stator arm design.
-
Third picture is Rotor design.
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Next picture is placement of
stator arm on Base.
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Stator arm and Rotor mounted on Base.
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This is last picture of my progress on W.D.Torbay motor design.
Picture shows all stator arms and Rotor mounted on the Base.
Notice stator arm #5 is raised, all others are held down, by
mutual repulsion forces.
Many times I was forced to redesign this concept. I hope
that next task, rotor cap, will be much easier. When everything
will be finished, I will post complete design on this forum.
Hopefully this motor will turn!
God bless
Frank
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Engineering is an A++, Awesome work 8) Keeping my fingers crossed,
goodluck!
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This is last picture of my progress on W.D.Torbay motor design.
Picture shows all stator arms and Rotor mounted on the Base.
Notice stator arm #5 is raised, all others are held down, by
mutual repulsion forces.
Many times I was forced to redesign this concept. I hope
that next task, rotor cap, will be much easier. When everything
will be finished, I will post complete design on this forum.
Hopefully this motor will turn!
God bless
Frank
Frank,
I am amazed!
Anxiously looking forward to seeing the results!
FB
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I wish you the best of luck.
Personally I don't think the Torbay motor design will work.
The magnets and rotor will find an equilibrium state.
But still.....Good luck.
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I am looking forward to an update on this Frank.
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G'day Frank and all,
What a magnificent piece of engineering, Hope it works for you, you deserve it.
Hans von Lieven
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Frank, great job. i thought everybody lost interest in this design...hope you have success!
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So how are things going on your Torbay motor replication?
Any success? Let us hear. We are curious!!!!
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Hi everyone! :-*
I started to work on rotor cap. As till now, any curvature on lower side of rotor
is turning it 3/4 distance from center of stator arm, to center of next one.
I am working now on cap with two tracks and using step-up rotor magnet, to
drive rotor to center of next stator arm. Step-up magnet is mounted on rotor
plate. It is made of 4, plate Neo.magnets, On position 1-1 magnet
2-2 magnets
3-2 magnets and
4-3 magnets.
As first magnet approach the stator arm, rotor cap is alowing stator arm to start push
upwards. So in that configuratin, I have 3 stator arms pushing rotor cap upwards in
any rotor position. That is reason for two separate trucks under rotor cap.
Hopefully it will work.
God bless
Frank
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Hi Frank
My question is:
How can you separete movement of two
stator arms with two diferent tracks under
rotor cap? ???
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>:(Hi all! >:(
Seems to me that W.Torbay motor forum is dead. Looks to me, that everyone lost interest
in this motor design. I must admit that video from W,Torbay is fraud on massive scale.
Many people lost countless hours, trying to replicate this motor. So, I declare his motor and his patent
worthless and null. Everyone knows that opening in circular magnet will pull another magnet with same
polarity to the gap. This is a physical law and it can not be patented as such. What I am doing, I am
trying to deviate completly away from W.T. motor design (if we can call that design).
As I mentioned before, in my design I have two stator arms pushing upwards, against rotor cap with
upward push from step-up rotor magnet. Two stator arms pushing up, and one going down
result is lock-up, that stumbling block for centuries.
To Australopitecus: Two ramps I used is powered by small whels on stator arms. One shaft is normal
length, next one is shorter, next one longer and so on. So two stator arms are riding on separate ramps.
To CLaNZer: Arm that is pushed up, must be locked in 3/4 upward travel, then released when next
arm start to go up. I have an hint for you. That arm which goes down, will help you to pull the rotor thru
lock-up point. Wery soon, I hope, this motor will turn.
To W.Torbay: It is now time to came up with your story, to came up with your working motor.
;)Till next time
God bless you all
Frank
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So this is meaning your tests wasn't successful at all?
Did you notice any type of motion at all by the help of outside force?
Please enlighten us of your findings at your test phase.
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Hi Honk! ;)
Yes, I have a excelent response from two stator arms pushing on two separate tracks under
rotor cap. Trick is that I dont allow raised arm to reach highest position. Now, I work on
downward ramp to drive rotor thru lockup, in order to bring next two stator arms in
proper position. Problem is that I can`t hold rotor in place, it has tendency to turn, forces
are to great. Then, another problem- to design proper curvature of downward ramp.
Initionaly I am bulding it from small pieces of plexiglass glued together, then filing them to
proper shape. All that movement is created without helping anything by hands. When I finish
I will post complete motor on this forum. It takes a lot of time to do all this.
Very soon, I hope, this motor will run. It looks great (at least to me).
For driving rotor thru lockup, everything is resolved, now only hard work is left.
My hope is still high. :)
God bless
Frank
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HI everyone!
After more than a year, I am still working on and
traying to replicate this Torbay Motor. If I change something in design, usualy I end up with, almost building motor from
begining. So, work is still progressing painfully slow, but end
is now very close.
God bless
Frank
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HI everyone!
After more than a year, I am still working on and
traying to replicate this Torbay Motor. If I change something in design, usualy I end up with, almost building motor from
begining. So, work is still progressing painfully slow, but end
is now very close.
God bless
Frank
Well done Frank for still keeping with it, would Love to see some updated photos of your Rig.
Cheers
Sean.
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i have not been on this discussion board as of now and i am curious to see how mutch progress has been made from the last post i once made a mini version of this thing and it nearly worked infact i think it did for about a day untill a colleague of mine called deufraise came bumbling in and knocked it off the table ive tried to make one like this since and also triec to repair it but at this time i think we dont have the technology to make them so specific and accurate and the ones that have worked are peobably one offs that are hard to replicate as for mine it was made using shapelock plastic melts in boiling water and miniature magnets similar to the ones torbay used deufraise had some scientific colleuagues whocan make magnets like his we had the stator aswell as ultra low friction load bearing bearings and a slope on the lid that was accurate to a hundreth of an inch it did work but sadly has not wroked since then i had the pieces of the mini torbay but deufraise sadly took them and will not show any videos or pictures as it would be an embarrassment to him and the scientific community and his friends also deufraise has always been clumsyit was me and deufraise who built the motor mostly deufraise he put alot of love and time into that machine and he was relly sad and upset that he had broke it and me i coulndt care less but i didnt realized how mutch this could have done
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hello to all! :) been a while since I look at this topic! Torbay with your fabrications! and I have studied the concept and saw the plans, and videos etc ... and I think most of us have done stupid things, including me! because I also made a Torbay, which was amended and again and again ... j'usqu'Ã results very promising! Unfortunately my prototype shot 1 minute, then the magnet stators were loose! bad glue! I wait to have my 4-axis CNC to produce accurate and robust! here are some pictures that I made corrections on the motor! ;)
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it's me again! ;D
-
? Is there someone on this topic?? :'(
-
my motor ;D
-
next pictures
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next pictures
Hi. Yes, I'm on this topic. You have done a great job. I'm still reading you drawings.
/Eric
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good news I am not alone! ;D
thank's Eric for your watching ;) you've also built a torbay? have you had the same problems we all here?
if not, I can not wait to have my 4 axis CNC! order to machine all parts of the pictures I put here!
sorry for my english!! i'm french! :)
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my engine rolled 1 minute before releasing the magnets! due to bad glue! super good news, it means he can run! but I think my engine faults are mainly the lack of precision in the manufacture! torbay my mini is good for the trash! i built a new and better model! in the pictures you see the arms stator with more little magnets 5mmX2mmX1mm! I'll replace them with true arc magnet!
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It's great that it ran for a minut. Then there is hope.
I never build a complete motor. I did some basic tests. The magnets where strong and I feld the big forces.
I canunderstand that the glue came loose.
I used arc segments: http://fdp.nu/torbay (http://fdp.nu/torbay)
Eric
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I worked with this type of magnets "special torbay" answer ... not too good for the engine!too hard to repel the magnet down!
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too many weird things in case torbay...
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Hi all... :) new update!
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I am still working on my model. Run into same problem, when motor starts, it speed up so fast, that all magnets were sheared off. Now i am working on complete encasing magnets into AL cages.
God bless
Frank
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hello Frank! So you had the same prolem as all other members of the topic here on this engine! have you ever seen on page 45 with my corrected plans? to understand how the engine works in Torbay the original video, must be analyzed frame by frame the following: remove stator, stator down, exact location of the ball bearing that pushes up the stator, etc. etc. .....all indications are good to understand and correct the errors of each!
Walter Torbay engine is not a hoax! I understand just what kind of magnet should be taken, and the power of magnets! and manufacture precision engine components! unlike some people, I do not think that the topic torbay is dead! think that we must have the will to do! and of course tools and machines! ;) this engine was born to run, you must prove it!
God bless
Geoffray
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I am still working on my model. Run into same problem, when motor starts, it
speed up so fast, that all magnets were sheared off. Now i am working on
complete encasing magnets into AL cages.
God bless
Frank
If you really had this problem, it's kind of like curing cancer,
even if you cure it, the patient is eventually going to die of
something else.
The real cure is to have a non-linear speed resistance
such as a fluid torque converter used as a brake. Like
wind resistance the braking force needs to go up as
a power of the rotational velocity. The braking force curve
then intersects the magnets output power curve at some
point, that is then your motors maximum rpm. Wind
resistance eventually does this but at a rpm far to high
for other stuff.
:S:MarkSCoffman
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Hi Geoffray-magnetron88
Congrat`s on beautifully designed Torbay magnetmotor replica.
But, dont forget , whatewer you are doing, you will end up with
same problem like anyone else, motor will find parking position (Lock-Up).
As I mentioned before, this motor will only run if you keep system
always unbalanced, said that, motor will always chase unbalanced
position. That is solution to this.problem. How to create this
unbalanced system? Torbay motor was never operational. Not in the form
presented with his video. In concealed base, he was able to hide
even one diesel motor or battery pack.If you watch video, before
pushing stator on the rail, watch his finger flip hiden switch.
Anyway, god bless you!
Frank
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my engine rolled 1 minute before releasing the magnets! due to bad glue! super good news, it means he can run! but I think my engine faults are mainly the lack of precision in the manufacture! torbay my mini is good for the trash! i built a new and better model! in the pictures you see the arms stator with more little magnets 5mmX2mmX1mm! I'll replace them with true arc magnet!
Magnetron,
Nice work!! One minute Wow!! Most of us would be happy to see a unit turn a couple full revolutions.
I think if you really look at what must happen is a magnetic leverage affect. Because a leveraged force is affected by a proportional distance depending the distance from the fulcrum, it may be possible achieve OU with magnets, because the magnetic field strength drops/increases exponentially over distance.
Bill
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Wow !
Almost 5 years passed silently but not one whisper on this forum. Well I am now retired and finally I have time to prove to everyone, that this motor in any form has big potential.
Now I could pursue and finish this project, regardless of outcome, be it positive or negative. As I said before, key is in creating continuous system unbalance. Once I create this, then all pieces will fall in its proper place. Shame, many people did stop working on this project after first or second fiasco. Seems to me, that Magnetron88 was very close.
Anyway, I will try my best.
Regards
Frank
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Wow !
Almost 5 years passed silently but not one whisper on this forum. Well I am now retired and finally I have time to prove to everyone, that this motor in any form has big potential.
Now I could pursue and finish this project, regardless of outcome, be it positive or negative. As I said before, key is in creating continuous system unbalance. Once I create this, then all pieces will fall in its proper place. Shame, many people did stop working on this project after first or second fiasco. Seems to me, that Magnetron88 was very close.
Anyway, I will try my best.
Regards
Frank
Good luck with your project. I'm sure you'll figure it out :)
Please post pictures as the project is moving forward.
Vidar