Author Topic: Magnet Motor from Argentina, part2 (Read 314662 times)

madmaxx · « **Reply #255 on:** June 07, 2006, 12:11:44 AM »

how do you reduce friction?

Simple - Get rid of parts that are in contact with each other.

Torbay design with NO RAMPS to lift stators. Well sorta, at least they don't touch.

I advanced the timing and it will lift 2 stators with the inertia.

I noticed that there is a lot of energy wasted when the stator lifts. Now if if we can use this to store the force until the rotor passes we can use this to place it it back down.

lonach · « **Reply #256 on:** June 07, 2006, 03:48:20 PM »

Madmaxx, nice setup and video - great idea to use additional rotor magnet to raise stators.

Suppose you put another repulsive magnet behind and above rotor to force stators back down? I see you
had to apply a fair amount of force to push the stators down, but an additional rotor magnet should
reduce the amount of force required - of course, the more magnet fields added to the system could
cause unexpected issues.

I want to try to replicate Torbay's design, just can't find the time to do it.

Very great info

Thanks

hartiberlin · « **Reply #257 on:** June 07, 2006, 04:17:30 PM »

Hi Madmax,
it seems from your video that you have as stator magnets
the wrong magnets !
It seems you have 2 ferrite magnets on each stator segment
which are normally polarized noth-south at the big surfaces, right ?
But you need to have e.g. north pointed inward to the axis , so
the polarisation must be 90 degrees to your current polarisation !
So it is no wonder, that you don?t have big forces
onto your rotor...
Please let us know, if I am right.
Many thanks.

kukulcangod · « **Reply #258 on:** June 07, 2006, 07:27:35 PM »

I would recommend the 90 degree option I have the same magnets Madmax and the rotor moves with great force and inertia, both if you can see I had to add a secon half moon magnet to the rotor so the force would be enough and the stator magnets lift up very smothly almost not applying force and a little more force is needen to put them down as well.....You can se that in my movie as well ,nonetheless the magnetic lifter idea is a great ,also the one about a wavy cam .
My cam is heavy made out of a plastic wheel for a lawnmover, my setting sitted on a plastic dish make it bend to one side due to magnetic force so for me right now is not a go.....I'm rebuilding with with wood platform and lighter spiral cam.
With my hands anyway I realized that the heavy cam could be moved once balanced......I hope I can make it work.regards

madmaxx · « **Reply #259 on:** June 07, 2006, 08:16:12 PM »

"But you need to have e.g. north pointed inward to the axis , so
the polarisation must be 90 degrees to your current polarisation !
So it is no wonder, that you don?t have big forces
onto your rotor..."

A north pole is pointed into the rotor. I could turn the stator magnets 90 degree and increase the flux that is directed to the rotor. But I was having problems keeping the stators down. Perhaps I could cut the corners with the tile saw to reduce the interference. I think I saw this in Torbay designs.

gn0stik · « **Reply #260 on:** June 07, 2006, 08:32:57 PM »

Quote from: madmaxx on June 07, 2006, 08:16:12 PM

"But you need to have e.g. north pointed inward to the axis , so
the polarisation must be 90 degrees to your current polarisation !
So it is no wonder, that you don?t have big forces
onto your rotor..."

A north pole is pointed into the rotor. I could turn the stator magnets 90 degree and increase the flux that is directed to the rotor. But I was having problems keeping the stators down. Perhaps I could cut the corners with the tile saw to reduce the interference. I think I saw this in Torbay designs.

yessir that is a primary component of the torbay motor design. The shape of the magnets is critical according to the patent papers that are on the last page of the first thread I believe. Torbay says that two principals drive his machine, the lifting of the stators, which keeps the motors in repulsion from behind, and the shape of the magnets which reduce interference by adjacent stators.

Also just having a topcap that would limit the upward travel of the stator magnets would help reduce the force it took to shove them back down. They only have to travel half the magnet face's distance upward to sufficiently create the imbalance. A small roller on the top of your stator mags would probably help reduce friction on the topcap as they will be pressing against it pretty hard until they shoved back down by the ramp, unless you cut the sides to the angle as specified by torbay.

Also your magnets seem to be a little long, I think they should be much shorter to reduce the amount of magnet surface (and hence flux)opposing adjacent stators. Perhaps 1/4 as long(on the side).

____________________
\ N /
\________S________/ <---- like that.

eavogels · « **Reply #261 on:** June 07, 2006, 09:26:52 PM »

Hi.
I really don't want to confuse anybody by showing a device that has a rotor magnet that is different magnetized than the original Torbay patent. But the first proof of concept makes that I want to show the big torque I get. The clip shows a 'Fred Flinstone'-style device where I mounted the stator magnets on pieces of iron. At 11 o'clock you see 2 magnets that are slightly higher mounted. The distance between stator magnets is chosen so that lifting and bringing down in line is not too heavy and when I'm going to mount the stator magnets on arms, with additional weights to make lifting and sinking easier I think I have to add a considerable load to the rotor to bring speed down.
The rotor magnets I used are at: http://www.fdp.nu/demo/fdp_neo_arc.gif

I?ll let the moderator decide if the video should be here or not. He may delete this.

Jdo300 · « **Reply #262 on:** June 07, 2006, 10:58:09 PM »

Hi Eric,

This is an interesting way to do this. Try it with the lifting arms next to see if the torque you are getting will be enough to lift the stators.

God Bless,
Jason O

gn0stik · « **Reply #263 on:** June 08, 2006, 04:30:03 AM »

Wow, it turns a full 180 degrees out. It's in repulsion on one end and attraction on the other until the poles are on either side of the lifted mags. If you put your lifter ramp at 90 degrees counter clockwise to the peak of the "arch" on that set up, you'd have pretty good travel time, and they'd be getting lifted at mid "stroke" so to speak, so that it would be at maximum rpm that way. To increase torque, shorten that to say 90 degrees, but this would decrease rpm. Once you have the lifting arms built on hinges or something, then you can determine the force needed to force the stators down (seems to be the sticking point.), and adjust the lifting ramp to the appropriate torque level.

By the way, how did you encase the rotor mags in that epoxy resin? That's sweet.

eavogels · « **Reply #264 on:** June 08, 2006, 09:43:35 AM »

Hi.
I will start with only one arm, that is going to lift 2 magnets at once. I must figure out first how much force is needed to bring the magnets down and how much (little) the magnets have to be lifted to get any torque at all. Adding an adjustable pressure spring to keep the arm down will help also. Until I do some more tests I have the feeling that the device can work with just one arm. Because when all stator magnets are in line, there is very little friction and lifting 2 magnets is really throwing the 1,5 kilo rotor to the opposite side.

I milled the plexiglas box for the rotor magnets.
Eric.

gn0stik · « **Reply #265 on:** June 08, 2006, 07:54:57 PM »

I agree you would have to lift fewer arms with your design, but I would think you'd at least have to lift 2 sets that are 180 degrees from eachother. One set spins it around 180, the other returns it.

Or do you think pushing it back down will return it?

stiffy · « **Reply #266 on:** June 10, 2006, 05:24:15 PM »

Has anyone seen an English version of Torbay's patent? The picture of the device is of poor quality, can't see what is what.

Jdo300 · « **Reply #267 on:** June 11, 2006, 07:46:13 AM »

Quote from: stiffy on June 10, 2006, 05:24:15 PM

Has anyone seen an English version of Torbay's patent? The picture of the device is of poor quality, can't see what is what.

You can see some better quality images of the patented prototype on Torbay's website here: http://club.telepolis.com/LICYTA/

stiffy · « **Reply #268 on:** June 11, 2006, 11:06:43 AM »

Quote from: Jdo300 on June 11, 2006, 07:46:13 AM

Quote from: stiffy on June 10, 2006, 05:24:15 PM
Has anyone seen an English version of Torbay's patent? The picture of the device is of poor quality, can't see what is what.

You can see some better quality images of the patented prototype on Torbay's website here: http://club.telepolis.com/LICYTA/

Thanks, that cleared many thinks up.

Have a look at this picture:
(http://www.tntproxy.com/cgi-bin/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/111110A/http/club.telepolis.com/LICYTA/ima/p15.jpg)

The magnets on the outside (stator) are lifted due to the ramp Torbay made beneath the lever holding the magnets. So the rotor probably has a protrusion that slides along this triangular feature. If this motor runs at all, it is going to make a lot of noise, banging against the ramp and pushing up the magnets to disturb the symmetry around the pie shaped rotor magnet.

kukulcangod · « **Reply #269 on:** June 11, 2006, 03:18:58 PM »

I have tried 2 cams already and my setting just doesn't move.........I changed the heavier one to a lighter one and still nothing , when in effect the manual method works, showing a whole 360 rotation with just one magnet pushing but....apparently the magnet force is not enough all togheter, and innertia just doesn't cut it for the lighter cam with clear acrylic spiral ramp regulated by bolts from the top to assure maximum advantgeous angle......next thing is to try very strong magnets and cuts , I don't think is going to work without with 6 magnets around probably more.......the timing shows to be ok.....Good Luck.

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Author Topic: Magnet Motor from Argentina, part2 (Read 314662 times)

madmaxx

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