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Author Topic: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy  (Read 234678 times)

ariovaldo

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2018, 01:21:04 PM »
sm0ky2, that's why the phrase »or vice versa« is frequently used in this thread.


THE FOUR-CYCLE ENGINE

We use two transformers of a three-phase transformer. The primary coil of the first one is connected to 50Hz grid, generating a magnetic field. The secondary coil of that transformer is connected to ground and shorted. It is not shorted directly, but through a coil of the second transformer. That second transformer generates high voltage, for some reason at 100 Hz. That high voltage generates an electric field and ionization close to that shorted coil carrying the 50Hz current generated by the first transformer. Using a spark gap or not, what could happen? What could happen if we use all three transformers? The middle one generates the magnetic field and runs at 50Hz, the two outer ones provide the high voltage at 100Hz - or vice versa. What could happen, if the ground wire connected to the closed loop itself is influenced by an alternating electric field?

Unbelievable, how many pages can be written in circles about a device consistent of almost nothing.

It is still unclear at this point if a spark gap is really required or not. I can't see how a spark gap could ever work on a permanent basis when casted in epoxy resin, like the Barbosa-Leal device is. Should we assume there is a spark gap hidden in the circuit breaker or in one of the two surge arresters? Or is there an electronic one? But if we don't need one at all, then the better. Maybe Kapanadze's spark gap is just another pitfall - or he used one needlessly without knowing. Also it is still unclear at this point whether the surplus of electrons should be collected from ground or rather from ionized air.

Looking at the illustrations below, we know for sure now why a frequency doubler circuit is needed in order to generate the high voltage that attracts the electrons. It works (if we should ever succeed) like a four-cycle engine. The idea is to electrostatically attract and repel the electrons in a closed circuit in harmony with the magnetic field, not contrary to it, making one field cancel the other. So I think this is a physical configuration issue between the magnetic field(s) - inductance, and the electrostatic field(s) - capacitance. The Barbosa-Leal patent says »at least one device for generating an electromagnetic field (1) - powered by an electricity source«; that's an ordinary iron core wound with a primary coil. The secondary coil is the closed loop with 2 to 4 windings, generating heat (the copper pipe). This coil is not completely covered by the magnetic (and electric) field because we can see a large part of it sticking out of the device. So far we have here an ordinary transformer with a shorted secondary coil. That secondary coil is connected to ground. Exactly the same configuration like the welder above, which can turn the meter in reverse.

When an electric field attracts electrons (from ground) then it attracts electrons towards itself; the field generates a hot spot of electrons. Perhaps that could mean, we have to inject (»high voltage is injector«) those electrons directly into the magnetic field (»combustion chamber«) generated by the primary coil (»low voltage is piston«). Thus, it could be a good idea to have the ground wire connected near the magnetic field coil, not at an arbitrary spot somewhere on the closed loop. When this closed loop is made of a coaxial cable (wound around an iron core, magnetized by the primary coil), the shielding connected to high voltage attracts (or repels) electrons, but on one side of the circuit the electrons are always attracted (or repelled) in the wrong direction, the electrons do not move in a full circle. This can't work. What's missing?


There was no spark gap in those units.....

sm0ky2

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2018, 01:44:17 PM »
it is not only a switch, since it provides a massive number of frequencies and their harmonics. This is an advantage if you mean to bounce these in a coil


Yes this is true, we can filter them on the back end.
However, Foyer transform shows us these can be
viewed as a single combined frequency.
some add others cancel, and so the effects these have
on induction, capacitance, and impedance are the same
as if the simplified frequency were sent through the
circuit by itself.
what is ‘missing’ in the simplified version is radiation
and sound external to the circuit.






Zeitmaschine

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2018, 12:20:32 PM »
ariovaldo, »There was no spark gap in those units.....«

And also no diode bridge (single diodes)? Would be strange, since the frequency doubler circuit under Stepanov's cardboard box is surely not there for nothing. Did this dismantled unit work once? So you got a working OU device and destroyed it?

ariovaldo on March 01, 2014, 05:30 PM: »I'm from Brazil and tested the equipment by myself and I know exactly what the equipment has inside. The tests that I conducted didn't show good results, and I'm 95% sure this equipment is fake [...]«

Or didn't it work at all and therefore those images do not show a real Barbosa-Leal device from the inside? Then what's the point?

I can see an arc welder like transformer. The device for generating an electromagnetic field powered by an electricity source is the toroidal coil, the closed looped secondary coil is going through it. But we know, without additional means this will not work; why should it? So, are there any pictures showing some other parts of that unit?

So far, based on all available information, the theory is this:

a) Barbosa-Leal device equals arc welder transformer.
b) Arc welder transformer draws energy from grid when the secondary coil is shorted.
c) Barbosa-Leal device draws energy from ground by means of the shorted secondary coil.
d) Arc welder transformer can draw energy also from ground in some special cases.
e) Kapanadze and Stepanov devices are basically the same like Barbosa-Leal device.

The principle of work should be: Electrons from ground or from ionized air are injected into a closed looped secondary coil, amplifying there (for free) an already present current generated by a primary magnetic field.

Does sound simple, how to make it?


THE CLOSED NON-CLOSED CIRCUIT

In order to generate a magnetic field and heat, electrons need to move in a closed circuit (don't know why). But what could happen when the electrons move in a closed circuit and that circuit is in fact not permanently closed (illustration below)? The circuit is rather closed time-dependent (cosmoLV: »always this is manipulation with time«); we utilizing the forth dimension, so to say. A switch (of some kind) opens the closed loop, that's the secondary coil of a transformer. A positive electric field attracts the electrons from ground through the loop (1), so the electrons are all collected on the end of the wire. Then the circuit is switched over, therefore that end of the wire containing the surplus of electrons connects to ground, whereas a negative electric field (don't know if this negative field is really needed) repels now the electrons at the other end of the wire pushing them back into the ground through the loop (2). This is repeated for each half-wave (3 and 4) of the magnetic field generated by the primary coil (not drawn in this illustration). So, for the electrons it looks like a closed circuit although it is an open circuit. When the magnetic field works at 50Hz (and also the switch), then the electric field has to be 100Hz, phase-locked of course. Don't know how to do this practically, but at least the theory is a bit outside of the box.

The question here: Is it really necessary to have a toggle switch, like transistors or thyristors, or could this toggle switch be replaced by two coils (chokes) of some sort? The magnetic field works at 50Hz sinusoidal wave, the electric field could be sharp pulsed (cosmoLV: »most important thing is to generate sharp pulses«). That means, a choke could work as a filter, conducting the 50Hz current without apparent resistance, but the apparent resistance would be high for the current generated by the sharp electric field pulses. As we can see, the diagram of the arc welder from page one shows a choke connected in series with the secondary coil through the diode bridge and it is suitable for high currents. It conducts 100Hz DC without much resistance, but it blocks the sharp pulses generated by the sparks when the circuit is shorted (welding).


ahem ... just in case some detailed images here do not fit neatly onto your screen, use Firefox with Stylish plugin, create new style with the following lines (change numbers at your convenience):

@-moz-document domain("overunity.com") {
  div img {
    max-width: 800px;
    height: auto;
  }
  .post {
    max-width: 835px;
    text-align: justify;
  }
}
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 08:40:07 PM by Zeitmaschine »

jojo500

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2018, 01:11:23 PM »
ariovaldo, »There was no spark gap in those units.....«

And also no diode bridge (single diodes)? Would be strange, since the frequency doubler circuit under Stepanov's cardboard box is surely not there for nothing. Did this dismantled unit work once? So you got a working OU device and destroyed it?

ariovaldo on March 01, 2014, 05:30 PM: »I'm from Brazil and tested the equipment by myself and I know exactly what the equipment has inside. The tests that I conducted didn't show good results, and I'm 95% sure this equipment is fake [...]«

Or didn't it work at all and therefore those images do not show a real Barbosa-Leal device from the inside? Then what's the point?

I can see an arc welder like transformer. The device for generating an electromagnetic field powered by an electricity source is the toroidal coil, the closed looped secondary coil is going through it. But we know, without additional means this will not work; why should it? So, are there any pictures showing some other parts of that unit?

So far, based on all available information, the theory is this:

a) Barbosa-Leal device equals arc welder transformer.
b) Arc welder transformer draws energy from grid when the secondary coil is shorted.
c) Barbosa-Leal device draws energy from ground by means of the shorted secondary coil.
d) Arc welder transformer can draw energy also from ground in some special cases.
e) Kapanadze and Stepanov devices are basically the same like Barbosa-Leal device.

The principle of work should be: Electrons from ground or from ionized air are injected into a closed looped secondary coil, amplifying there (for free) an already present current generated by a primary magnetic field.

Does sound simple, how to make it?


THE CLOSED NON-CLOSED CIRCUIT

In order to generate a magnetic field and heat, electrons need to move in a closed circuit (don't know why). But what could happen when the electrons move in a closed circuit and that circuit is in fact not permanently closed (illustration below)? The circuit is rather closed time-dependent (cosmoLV: »always this is manipulation with time«); we utilizing the forth dimension, so to say. A switch (of some kind) opens the closed loop, that's the secondary coil of a transformer. A positive electric field attracts the electrons from ground through the loop (1), so the electrons are all collected on the end of the wire. Then the circuit is switched over, therefore that end of the wire containing the surplus of electrons connects to ground, whereas a negative electric field (don't know if this negative field is really needed) repels now the electrons at the other end of the wire pushing them back into the ground through the loop (2). This is repeated for each half-wave (3 and 4) of the magnetic field generated by the primary coil (not drawn in this illustration). So, for the electrons it looks like a closed circuit although it is an open circuit. When the magnetic field works at 50Hz (and also the switch), then the electric field has to be 100Hz, phase-locked of course. Don't know how to do this practically, but at least the theory is a bit outside of the box.

The question here: Is it really necessary to have a toggle switch, like transistors or thyristors, or could this toggle switch be replaced by two coils (chokes) of some sort? The magnetic field works at 50Hz sinusoidal wave, the electric field could be sharp pulsed (cosmoLV: »most important thing is to generate sharp pulses«). That means, a choke could work as a filter, conducting the 50Hz current without apparent resistance, but the apparent resistance would be high for the current generated by the sharp electric field pulses. As we can see, the diagram of the arc welder from page one shows a choke connected in series with the secondary coil through the diode bridge and it is suitable for high currents. It conducts 100Hz DC without much resistance, but it blocks the sharp pulses generated by the sparks when the circuit is shorted (welding).


ahem ... just in case some detailed images here do not fit neatly onto your screen, use Firefox with Stylish plugin, create new style with the following lines (change numbers at your convenience):

@-moz-document domain("overunity.com") {
  div img {
    max-width: 800px;
    height: auto;
  }
  .post {
    max-width: 835px;
    text-align: justify;
  }
}

one thing on all the devices from tariel , ruslan , akula, barbosa always make me wonder .. most of them use a relativ long cable going from the device to the groundpoint . some of the gys made a big deal about a perfekt ground .. at the same time they lay servral meters of cable in between it .
i did some tests with some intresting results not to long ago .. how ever there is something to look over

all the best

plaxius

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2018, 03:37:54 PM »
The spark gap is simply a switch
It is often replaced by a transistor
or similar state-dependent semiconductor


FALSE !!! Please .. see the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJEoKM0aOls&feature=youtu.be

SolarLab

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2018, 06:41:46 PM »
F.Y.I.

Fourier Series transform (Foyer?) - aid using an interactive graphical example,
and why it's important, can be found here:

The free energy of the electron

http://gorchilin.com/articles/energy/pull?lang=en

Study this page; in particular "The energy gain" (formula 1.8)
which is graphically (interactive) shown here:

Simulation of energy extraction with the long line. The increase in efficiency due to the
charge redistribution

&Ph=[1.57,3.14,1.31,1.83,1.05]&lang=en]http://gorchilin.com/calculator/pull?T=0.5&L=0.5&D=0.1&P=0.1&G=[1,0.78,0.6,0.65,0.55]&Ph=[1.57,3.14,1.31,1.83,1.05]&lang=en
&Ph=[1.57,3.14,1.31,1.83,1.05]&lang=en]
Open the Detail box - upper RH - use the US flag for translation; then
adjust the Harmonics - 1...5 and Phases: 0...+180deg; NOTE: Ksub0.2= value
L is 1/4 or 1/2 Lambda of coil (wavelength); The lower graph shows one period of
oscillations, which excite DL (the long line).

After a brief review, it will become clear how and why the proper selection of the
"Harmonics" of a "Pulse" type excitation of waveform on a 1/4 or 1/2 wavelength long line
(e.g. in the form of a Tesla or other high Q coil) might be of advantage (Ksub 0.2);
when also considering the "extraction" timing (green line on excitation signal graph
at the bottom - also shown to the right as a switch and load - yellow when filled.
Move the green line to re-adjust the extraction timing - click along the T axis - reset the cycle.

A study (interactive graph) of the "Pulse" train can be found here:

Calculation of pulse pumping Tesla transformer

[url=http://gorchilin.com/calculator/tesla?lang=en]http://gorchilin.com/calculator/tesla?lang=en

Also - follow the "blue" links. NOTE: A Fourier Series Transform (FT) of a signal (pulse, etc.) will
yield a series of discrete frequencies, including their respective phases in the "frequency
domain;" in turn, Convolving a series of discrete frequencies will yield the waveform
in the "time domain." FT has several forms - for example: DFT (discrete Fourier transform)
ignores the harmonic signal phase information - caution.

One Pulse Example:

 http://gorchilin.com/calculator/tesla?Q=200&G=1&b=0.1&fi=400?lang=en

As can be seen - harmonic frequencies and phases matter!
Now you can begin to ENGINEER the (optimum) driving waveform manipulation;
or you might just get lucky - in that case definitely buy a lottery ticket as well, since your chances
of being lucky a subsequent time will have the same odds as your winning the lottery!

For some I'm sure this will come as good news - since upgrading to a new online system, it has become near
impossible to construct a proper post for this board. Therefore, time spent trying to post here will be allotted
to more productive activities. Good luck to everyone and have a great New Year!


FIN



sm0ky2

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2018, 04:06:45 AM »
Thank you Fin


For the purpose of the devices being discussed here, the expanded view
Is overly unnecessary, but good information for people to have.
In order to utilize the higher harmonics (lower sets would be pointless)
we would need significantly more circuitry than what we see.


And if this is to be done, we should first consider the other interferences
in those bandwidths from modern human activity.




sm0ky2

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2018, 04:24:07 AM »
one thing on all the devices from tariel , ruslan , akula, barbosa always make me wonder .. most of them use a relativ long cable going from the device to the groundpoint . some of the gys made a big deal about a perfekt ground .. at the same time they lay servral meters of cable in between it .
i did some tests with some intresting results not to long ago .. how ever there is something to look over

all the best


are you thinking some kind of ‘EB’ effect?
the above Lewin video demonstrates how the earth is an infinite electron source.
(secondary lightning/hv discharges)


and EB experiments have shown that the earth can send charges to other objects
and other parts of the earth.
this effect can be as substantial as we want it to be.
TK once told me to place a coax in the ground and scope it.


all kinds of stuff going on there.
more waveforms than a lot of scopes can even separate
some identifiable, others left me wondering if the earth itself has electric frequencies
in addition to the dc-drift components.








jojo500

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2018, 01:03:30 PM »

are you thinking some kind of ‘EB’ effect?
the above Lewin video demonstrates how the earth is an infinite electron source.
(secondary lightning/hv discharges)


and EB experiments have shown that the earth can send charges to other objects
and other parts of the earth.
this effect can be as substantial as we want it to be.
TK once told me to place a coax in the ground and scope it.


all kinds of stuff going on there.
more waveforms than a lot of scopes can even separate
some identifiable, others left me wondering if the earth itself has electric frequencies
in addition to the dc-drift components.

yes and no . take that 1turn closed coil from barbosa ore the coax from tariel  an look at it as a magnetic loop ore box antenna
yeah i know they normaly use a variable air cap to tune it. but you don't have to. take any pice of wire wrap it a few turns over your loop say 3-6 turns and run it via a cable to you earth point .  Now with the lenght of your cable that runs to your earth ground you can tune your main loop verry easy. This was verry comon in the late 60 and 70 in east europe( russia) at the time they build medium to shortwave  tx stuff mostly for military aplikations. How ever those sort of contraptions have a wide variaty of build buildforms (a loop antenna made from coax is one of em) . thats all i want to say about it i feel it be wrong too  go deeper in this because it would not help too much for Zeitmaschienes work.

all the best

core

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2018, 03:42:12 PM »
Nice job pulling information off past threads Zeit  8)

Regarding grounds, what do you do if you are in an airplane? I suppose the planes frame would have to serve as ground. That said what we call ground in these units should be refereed to as a mass. Same would apply if you are in space. Somewhere in my notes I have a quote from Leal stating the Ground is held at a negative potential. If I find it I will post the entire article, last I researched these guys in 2017 they had an enormous amount of legal issues. Some public court papers I saw from Brazil had them going to court almost every month. They have since started a new chemical company. Sorry can't remember the new name of the company.

If you step back even further in time you have Clemente Figuera, in his era there was no diodes, vacuum tubes, transistors etc.. So how simple is this.

-Core

SolarLab

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2018, 06:21:58 PM »
Thank you Fin


For the purpose of the devices being discussed here, the expanded view
Is overly unnecessary, but good information for people to have.
In order to utilize the higher harmonics (lower sets would be pointless)
we would need significantly more circuitry than what we see.


And if this is to be done, we should first consider the other interferences
in those bandwidths from modern human activity.

F.Y.I.

In general
, my intent is simply to caution against all the mindless hand waving and otherwise
foolish sounding, unfounded, unverified, brain dead speculation - try another approach or you'll
be at this OU/FE/CE development for another 10 years, or more, ending with the same results:

Nothing but thousands upon thousands of pages of crap with a very few "value-added" bits
hidden within and being very difficult, if not impossible, to find.  The goal "must" be unraveling
the mysteries
; not post counts and silly hero member titles, or masquerading as a pseudo expert
 - this is not facebook nor twitter!

Don't wreck it - this can be a valuable resource!

smOky2:

Let me briefly explain further - my previous references are not meant to
present an "expanded view" of signals and such; but rather some fundamental
techniques of how EM signals are manipulated; primarily for analysis and design.

Understanding the Time and Frequency domains are key to gaining a clear conceptual
appreciation of all electromagnetic signals, and thus, their manipulation to further
develop a scheme. A Fourier transform takes a signal in the time domain (as seen on
an oscilloscope, for example) and represents that signal in the frequency domain (as
seen on a spectrum analyzer, for example).

Slightly off topic a bit, but also worth considering:
A complex representation of a signal is achieved by way of Vector Analysis (includes
amplitude and phase) or Scalar Analysis (includes amplitude information only). These are
time versus amplitude (and phase) at a given frequency (much like a radio receiver).

Now, by sweeping a device, or system of devices, with a known frequency while considering
the output signal amplitude and phase information, a matrix is created which
forms what are known as Scattering Parameters, or simply, S-Parameters. Quite valuable
information, in fact, since a complete "picture" - the amplitude, phase, and frequency
response of the circuit (black box) - is now known. Caveat - this generally holds true if
the black box is linear (generally small signal) - but it's a very good place to start a circuit
design or the analysis. Note: A Smith Chart is an inexpensive valuable graphical tool (old but
proven) that can be used to provide a huge amount of information. Check it out!

Also note that saturating (over driving) a system will generally create non-linearities causing,
amongst other things; harmonics, inefficiencies, and so forth. Sometimes this non-linear
effect is good - mixers, overunity, etc. and sometimes this is bad - audio distortion, radio
 interference's, etc..  Only scratching the surface here...

FIN

AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2018, 01:32:32 PM »
in video kapanadze 2004, the mystery of the two resistors and the white capacitor is in doubling the frequency .... the rest remains to be discovered......
Hi all just had a walk through your thread and was beginning to wonder why all your schismatics had fallen of the
 page  ;D
I'm not one for large SA's, I tend to get bored. However this little circuit interested me as well as its drawbacks like
heating up the room  and it's none standard output transformer (lamination's) ;D

What i was interested in has any one tested this device ?
I ask as it might be just as easy with a FET / IGBT to accelerate the frequency into the Mhz region just as easy
with a minimum of components.

AG




wattsup

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    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2018, 04:44:11 PM »
@all

Here is an observation of Kapanadze device mainly the Green Box using some basic logic, despite my firm belief that the bearded guy held the input power, I am neglecting this to provide an angle of research for some of the better EE/OUers.

The green  box had a spark gap so this means high voltage proportional to the gap aperture. So there is a source of high voltage. The green box also used two toggle switches to get it going. WHYYYYYYYY??? And why two????

Well, let's say you produced high voltage AC. So you have a sine wave rising and falling but always changing with time, unlike DC that stays the same in time. So you have a 60Hz AC of let's say 4800 volts peak to peak, but all you want is 120 volts output. So you send that high voltage through a mosfet where each interruption of the HV output equals a rise time to produce 120 volts. If you did that, you would need one toggle switch to start the pulsing absolutely first before you activate the other toggle switch that starts the high voltage. So you have a HV circuit and a voltage extrusion circuit. Something like a hot dog making machine with a constant hot dog feeding a timed cutting wheel.

The one or two mosfets would start getting hot so the heat sinks on the green box are shown.

SO WHO IS SMART ENOUGH TO TAKE THIS INFORMATION AND BUILD ON IT?

Such a system would relegate the TK Coil itself to be a dud, a discussion piece, a distraction and that would fall in perfectly with the fact the such a TK Coil winding for coupling purposes is totally useless and just equal to a straight piece of wire. If you can produce high voltage at a low consumption rate, then cut that high voltage into more manageable slices that once layered on top of each other increase the output amperage, that is the place to start.

wattsup


forest

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2018, 08:48:45 PM »
what is required to generate voltage?
what is required to generate amperage ?
combine both
simple

Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze, Stepanov, Barbosa-Leal and the Secret of Free Energy
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2018, 09:31:40 PM »

Such a system would relegate the TK Coil itself to be a dud, a discussion piece, a distraction and that would fall in perfectly with the fact the such a TK Coil winding for coupling purposes is totally useless and just equal to a straight piece of wire. If you can produce high voltage at a low consumption rate, then cut that high voltage into more manageable slices that once layered on top of each other increase the output amperage, that is the place to start.

wattsup

A fresh approach to the mystery maybe.

Yes agreed, the TK coil winding is very likely eye candy.

Yes agreed, the output is probably pulsed.

A MOT is perhaps the easiest and cheapest means (scrap yard build) of producing the HV.

However, what is the source of energy? If its from the grid, then we have a place to start. If so, do we assume that the grid current is supplied from a remote location to the device? If not, what is the source of energy local / within the device?

Could TK have sent the HV over very thin cable from a remote location?

To minimise energy consumption whilst producing highest lumen bulb output levels, do we need the HV to ionise the gas in the bulbs?? Has anyone experimented with pulsed HV transformed from the grid, directly applied to incandescent lamps at various pulse rates?