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Author Topic: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal  (Read 1745735 times)

memoryman

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1170 on: April 04, 2015, 08:16:29 PM »
Well said, ramset.
I live in the Greater Toronto Area of Ontario and offered to evaluate; some are such obvious fakes/scams, such as Magnacoaster (only 30 mins away) or GDS (~2hrs away) that I won't bother. Always open to invitations...

nelsonrochaa

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1171 on: April 04, 2015, 10:48:44 PM »
Like i said in other occasions : testing and observation is the best way to achieve something not only wait for the gold  fall to people.
Why most people only see the word overunity like a unique objective ? And improve the actual system conversion that exists ? Is not important ?
 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUiDqaTOWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7acRk8Z6-U

forest

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1172 on: April 04, 2015, 11:03:34 PM »
Like i said in other occasions : testing and observation is the best way to achieve something not only wait for the gold  fall to people.
Why most people only see the word overunity like a unique objective ? And improve the actual system conversion that exists ? Is not important ?
 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUiDqaTOWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7acRk8Z6-U




I see you are experienced with such setups...Did you checked some kind of BEMF supression circuit ? I wonder if a transil or zener diode plus resistor connected in shunt to the choke coil will limit the spike generated when coil is disconnected ?




P.S. of course you are correct

nelsonrochaa

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1173 on: April 05, 2015, 03:05:49 AM »



I see you are experienced with such setups...Did you checked some kind of BEMF supression circuit ? I wonder if a transil or zener diode plus resistor connected in shunt to the choke coil will limit the spike generated when coil is disconnected ?
P.S. of course you are correct


Hi , in my opinion the bemf suppression not means cancel the bemf in the meaning of the word .  I say to many times that bemf can do work. In this particularly subject  on this barbosa circuit  or how people like to call , i did my own tests to months ago , is not a overunity circuit like people want , but if is good designed i can say that circuit will improve the output efficiency of inductive loads in  80% and half in resistive loads. but for me is more than good for the most people not :)
About the original  barbosa design circuit is designed to be a saturate reactor with feedback , the loop is only to saturate the ferromagnetic core ! ferro-Resonance .
But people only want to see AMPs in the loop  secondary and measure high amps  for What ? For dissipate energy in heat, lose efficiency in the process conversion?

Is all about conversion process. Electricity is not energy but a result of a conversation of one state of energy to another .
Electricity is only the product :)

Look in to this video and see how so different can be the way we can do "something abnormal" in conventional electricity . is the process of conversion .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is9fOtBeo_I

Most process of conversation lose efficiency in commutation system because the bemf will act like a drag , this is the common reason to the meaning " BEMF supression" and because will burn sometimes :) common components .
 This Bemf will return to source with a cmf effect that create resistance , this  will go heat the commutation system make lose energy , so reducing the efficiency of overall circuit.

But of course this is only a point of view  much personal.:)
People have to see some of this "things" with own eyes , because sometimes is the only manner to have reasons to question the common way of thinking.

Good luck for everyone
   

 

memoryman

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1174 on: April 05, 2015, 03:20:43 AM »
"Electricity is not energy" Really? Since when? One of the units of energy (Joule) is equivalent to one Watt.second
For example, electricity can be converted TO and FROM: heat, light, sound.

tinman

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1175 on: April 05, 2015, 03:35:35 AM »
"Electricity is not energy" Really? Since when? One of the units of energy (Joule) is equivalent to one Watt.second
For example, electricity can be converted TO and FROM: heat, light, sound.
Yes-electricity is not energy,it is a potential energy source. Like you stated in your own reply,it must be converted into either heat,light,sound-->and magnetic force-eg.the electric motor.

Well it seems that i have become the bad guy here-->UFOpolotics said the same thing once.
Well this bad guy is trying to save you guys from wasted time,money and that trip up the garden path full of dead flowers.

So,i will ask only one thing from Clarence-->a test that is so simple that nothing more than a volt meter is needed.
Clarence
Can you please run your system in loop mode for say 2 hours(disconected from the grid of course)with a light load of say 50 watts-i dont even require a battery voltage reading at the start of the test. When the 2 hour run is up,place a volt meter on your battery,and remove the battery from the system. Dose the voltage on your battery drop or rise-->the test is that simple.

memoryman

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1176 on: April 05, 2015, 04:00:39 AM »
"Yes-electricity is not energy,it is a potential energy source. Like you stated in your own reply,it must be converted into either heat,light,sound-->and magnetic force-eg.the electric motor."
I stated that it CAN be converted into many forms: NOT that it MUST be. Just as heat is a form of energy and CAN be converted into other forms of energy, such as electricity.

Clarence

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1177 on: April 05, 2015, 04:13:45 AM »
Yes-electricity is not energy,it is a potential energy source. Like you stated in your own reply,it must be converted into either heat,light,sound-->and magnetic force-eg.the electric motor.

Well it seems that i have become the bad guy here-->UFOpolotics said the same thing once.
Well this bad guy is trying to save you guys from wasted time,money and that trip up the garden path full of dead flowers.

So,i will ask only one thing from Clarence-->a test that is so simple that nothing more than a volt meter is needed.
Clarence
Can you please run your system in loop mode for say 2 hours(disconected from the grid of course)with a light load of say 50 watts-i dont even require a battery voltage reading at the start of the test. When the 2 hour run is up,place a volt meter on your battery,and remove the battery from the system. Dose the voltage on your battery drop or rise-->the test is that simple.

I definitely do NOT need any instructions from YOU as to how to conduct tests! I am NOT your mongoloid kindergarten pet by INFINITE MILES!

Your bad guy - good guy scenario pretension to SAVE THE WORLD is enough to make any intelligent person want to PUKE!

@ ALL,

I will be testing and providing results as usual in about a week- plus or minus whatever it turns out. I don't follow any clock and do other work the same as you WHICH I know you are already aware of
and by your own personal character values have also taken into consideration.

In the meantime to ALL.

cheers,

Clarence

tinman

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1178 on: April 05, 2015, 05:01:21 AM »


Clarence
Quote
I definitely do NOT need any instructions from YOU as to how to conduct tests! I am NOT your mongoloid kindergarten pet by INFINITE MILES!
Indeed-->in fact,it seems the device just running is your test protocal so far :D

Quote
Your bad guy - good guy scenario pretension to SAVE THE WORLD is enough to make any intelligent person want to PUKE!
No,not save the world-->just try and save people time and money on building an unworkable device. This is what i do,and i dont really care if you like it or not. Your attitude toward conducting a simple test is proof enough you intend on bleeding this nonsence device to the very end.How much of your time would be taken up by the simple test i asked you to carry out?. We see it time and time again,when crunch time come's,there is always an excuse as to why the test cant be carried out.
The device isnt complete yet.-needs more ground rods<---
I have other things to do ATM<---
Your replication is wrong-thats why it dosnt work like mine dose.<--yet to come
Your on the wrong side of the planet.<-- may also come.
Should i go on?-there are thousands to come yet,and you have already 2 of the above up your sleeve.

Quote
I will be testing and providing results as usual in about a week
I must have missed these provided test result's some where. Could you quote the post number these usual test results were provided? I remember one test where you ran the device(unloaded) for a couple of hours,and noted no change in battery voltage. Are you not aware of the tricks LAB's can play when it comes to the voltages they show?. Place your battery in the sun with a volt meter across it-->bugga me,the voltage rises-->must have inbuilt solar cells ;)

Quote
plus or minus whatever it turns out. I don't follow any clock and do other work the same as you WHICH I know you are already aware of
As you dont sleep at all(apparently),then time shouldnt be an issue for you. I feel the plus or minus is going to be a very long time.

Believe it or not Clarence,im on your side. I too am chasing the free energy machine-->and have been for many,many years. I offer my help in way of trying to show and explain what you have,and also provide very simple and short time consuming test,and you refuse with insults. Im not even going to try and guess what it has cost you so far,but even copper ground rods arnt cheap.

Anyway-good luck in your endeavor.

Void

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1179 on: April 05, 2015, 05:27:30 AM »
I tried a basic test with B&L's single transformer arrangement from their patent drawing,
(see attached drawing from patent). I took a 600VA ferrite toroid power transformer (it is what I had
on hand) and wound a 3 turn 4 AWG stranded copper wire on the toroid as a secondary. The 4 AWG
wire I used for this has bolt lugs on each end of the wire, and I bolted these two wire lugs tightly together
to short out my 3 turn secondary into a 'closed loop'.  I used an inline AC power meter to measure the input power
to the transformer when plugged into the mains. I used a clamp on AC ammeter to measure the AC
RMS current in my 3 turn secondary. Basically in this test I just wanted to see what the power draw would be
and how much current would flow in the shorted 3 turn secondary winding.

I thought it might possibly blow the breaker in my mains service panel when I plugged it in, but it did
not blow the breaker. I was only able to plug it in for about 5 seconds max because the 4 AWG wire became
burning hot already in 5 seconds. If I left it plugged in much longer than that the insulation on the 4 AWG
wire would have started melting or burning.

The inline wattmeter measured around 1600 Watts average into the transformer from the mains, with the max power
registered in the power meter as 1940 Watts. Yikes!
The first time I tried this I had the clamp on AC ammeter set to the 600 Amp AC range, but it showed "OL" for overload.
I then unplugged the transformer and let the secondary wire cool down for about 10 minutes, and then set the
clamp on ammeter to the 1000 Amp AC range. I plugged the transformer back in and the current in the 3 turn
secondary was measuring between about 920 Amps to around 1000 Amps RMS or so! The reading was jumping around in that
current range. Now that seems extremely high for the current measurement in the 3 turn 4 AWG wire secondary, but
that is what the clamp on ammeter measured. Maybe the strong magnetic field from the toroid transformer and 3 turn secondary
was throwing off the measurement, as the ammeter was clamped onto the 3 turn secondary right beside the toroid, but I am not
sure what is causing such a high current measurement on the secondary winding.

The moral of the story is that what I tried won't work. ;)  The 4 AWG wire on the 3 turn secondary would start to burn up after only
a very short time of being energized. Whatever B&L are intending for their single transformer arrangement, it isn't what I just tried.  :o
Maybe you would need to use a much smaller capacity ferrite core so that the transformer saturates at much lower currents.
Or maybe you need a lot more than 3 turns on the shorted secondary winding.
Any comments/suggestions regarding this test welcome.

All the best...

wistiti

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1180 on: April 05, 2015, 06:30:21 AM »
Void... Normal you short circuit it.
Tinman, i respect you but dont worry about taking on your shoulder to save the money and time of everyone... Giving your opinion is really the best thing you can do! As you already know the best way we learn in life is by doing our own experiment.
I think the thing to learn here is a principe and if someone want to play with it and dont have the money to follow what  Clarence are doing he/she even can try the "principe" with low cost material like some kind of joulethief as the source and foil paper for the ground captor with the same surface contact ratio as Clarence want to achieve (4/60 or 1/15). It is up to everyone to made their own experiment at their level and to learn something... Even with bad experience, we learn!
:)


Void

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1181 on: April 05, 2015, 06:41:06 AM »
Void... Normal you short circuit it.

Hi wistiti. No, greater than 920 Amps measured on the 3 turn secondary seems very high to me.
Why the current is measuring so high on the 3 turn secondary, I don't know.
I also don't know what the winding turns count is on the primary winding, for turns ratio calculation purposes.
The other question is exactly how are B&L intending the secondary on the single transformer arrangement to
actually be wound? Anyone have any idea or details on that?
All the best...


tinman

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1182 on: April 05, 2015, 07:07:43 AM »
Hi wistiti. No, greater than 920 Amps measured on the 3 turn secondary seems very high to me.
Why the current is measuring so high on the 3 turn secondary, I don't know.
I also don't know what the winding turns count is on the primary winding, for turns ratio calculation purposes.
The other question is exactly how are B&L intending the secondary on the single transformer arrangement to
actually be wound? Anyone have any idea or details on that?
All the best...
Void
The clamp meter reads current by the strength of the magnetic field around the wire. If your clamp meter is to close to the transformer,then it may be reading the magnetic field around that transformer as well,which would be extreemly strong with your shorted 3 turn coil. Even then,1000 amps should fry that wire in no time flat. If we look at an arc welder,we can melt 2.5mm steel rods with only 60 amps,so something is amiss with your clamp meter.

Void

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1183 on: April 05, 2015, 07:35:13 AM »
Void
The clamp meter reads current by the strength of the magnetic field around the wire. If your clamp meter is to close to the transformer,then it may be reading the magnetic field around that transformer as well,which would be extreemly strong with your shorted 3 turn coil. Even then,1000 amps should fry that wire in no time flat. If we look at an arc welder,we can melt 2.5mm steel rods with only 60 amps,so something is amiss with your clamp meter.

Hi tinman. There is nothing wrong with the clamp-on ammeter itself. It is working fine.
Regarding the bit about the strong magnetic field around the 3 turns of wire on the secondary, that is what
I had already suggested as a possible explanation in my comments about the test I did. :)  It is possible that
you can't make reliable measurements with these types of meters when so close to the strong magnetic
field around the transformer windings. That might possibly be the cause of the very high current measurement.
Measurements aside, with the 3 turn secondary, the current is much too high for the 4 AWG wire. The wire would start
burning up very quickly if left energized for much longer than 5 or 10 seconds or so. The problem with info in patents is people often   
seem to obscure important details in the patents on purpose to make it very hard, if not impossible, for other people to replicate based
on the patent info alone. :)
All the best...

P.S.
In case anyone is not familiar with the AWG wire gauge system, 4 AWG wire is 5.19mm diameter, and 21.14mm^2 cross sectional area.
Regarding the current handling capacity of 4 AWG copper wire, one table I found lists it as follows:
Maximum amps for chassis wiring:  135 Amps
Maximum amps for power transmission:  60 Amps.
Note on these two specs:
[The Maximum Amps for Power Transmission uses the 700 circular mils per amp rule, which is very very conservative.
The Maximum Amps for Chassis Wiring is also a conservative rating, but is meant for wiring in air, and not in a bundle.]

The resistance of 4 AWG copper wire is supposed to be:
Ohms per 1000 foot:  0.2485
Ohms per km:  0.81508

cheors

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #1184 on: April 05, 2015, 09:26:44 AM »
@Void
Try with only 1 or 2 turns.