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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 2231724 times)

Nabo00o

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1155 on: September 28, 2009, 04:35:42 PM »
It is vital that you pick up the max weight with the minimal movement of the pivot point of the pendulum.
To pick up 50 pounds 2 inches is the exact same thing as picking up 100 pounds 1 inch.

Exactly! This is what I was talking about further back in the tread, when I said that the pendulum was only drained by distance and not by force. No matter what kind of work you do with the 2-stage oscillator, as long as the distance traveled by the pendulum pivot is low, then there will be little energy lost from the pendulum, which you can compensate for by oscillating it at its resonant frequency.

My view is that this is an universal concept, and that there are many ways in which it could be used, and some where it already is (excluding the Milkovic pendulum).
Julian

Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1156 on: September 28, 2009, 07:17:39 PM »
I'm Sorry Cloxxki  ;;  But something in your first statment tells me you do not understand the 2 stage oscillator ,  at all.
The power bar is a normal every day lever and it's math is directly proportional.  The power of the pendulum is it's leingth and weight and THAT is exponintal.
The leingth of the pendulum is it's timing and that is directly proportional.
The movment of the pivot point of the pendulm is the extraction point of the power produced by the pendulum. And this movment is a real loss of penulum power BUT it is exponintial.
It is vital that you pick up the max weight with the minamale movement of the pivot point of the pendulum.
To pick up 50 pounds 2 inches is the exact same thing as picking up 100 pounds 1 inch.
For experimental perposes. Almost any pendulum any leingth will work.
However ;;  If you need a particuler job done.  You will need to build the machine ti fit that job.
For example;;;;      I want a force of 25 pounds applied for a distance of 4 inches every two seconds.  I would need a four to one ratio power bar. A two meter pendulum swing. And a pendulum heavy enough to pick up 100 pounds 1 inch. @ a one to one ratio.A 50 to 60 pound pendulum would probably work very well here.This would allow the pivot point of the pendulum to move one inch up & down.
If we double the weight of the pendulum (leaving it's size and shape the same) it will have the same air friction with no need for incressed power input. However the power loss of the up and down motion IS doubled. So we reduce the up and down motion by half and double the ratio of the power bar and the needed input powr is reduced by 65 %. And you get the samre work out of the machine.
As you increes the leingth of the pendulum. You also incress the distance and speed it travles. Incressing air drag.  That is why on very larg machines it would be a great advantage to have a well aerodiamicaly designed pendulum.

    Raymond   RHead100
Thanks for the elaboration Raymond. I think I understand some of the 2-stage oscillator, but my sleep deprived English may have been unclear as to the amendment I was proposing.

For a non-stop working device (free energy power generator), I will agree that it is vital to bring down air drag. I do however heel that if something is 1200% efficient, air drag is the least of the concern to breach unity, unless the device is a mechanical butterfly.
I'm looking forward to seeing you bring that math into reality. If you do you are my hero, and I will dedicate serious time in finding further improvement based on the Raymond Device.

Rhead100

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1157 on: September 29, 2009, 12:32:20 AM »
Cloxxki ;   Sometimes I can sound a little Ainal.  But;;    that is only the writen word. It can not show facial exprestion or tone of voice.  You are my friend first. And in no way did I mean any disrespect.

      Raymond   RHead100

Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1158 on: September 29, 2009, 12:51:06 PM »
Cloxxki ;   Sometimes I can sound a little Ainal.  But;;    that is only the writen word. It can not show facial exprestion or tone of voice.  You are my friend first. And in no way did I mean any disrespect.

      Raymond   RHead100
No offence Raymond, even if you'd have meant it in a bad way. Some humility never hurt a man in search of greatness.
I may not always agree with doers like yourself (difference of opinion is the best chance to learn), but at least you DO, so I should keep a modest tone. Most of my ideas are blank shots. Sometimes I hit though, which makes the blanks worth it. Just a pain for you if you're getting only blanks from me :-)

I am actually very on the same page as you, I have a deeply founded belief that we can beat unity in a meachnical setup "tricking" weight/velocity/distance/height ratio's. Perhaps indeed the Milkovic invention can be "milked" off as you propose. The solution to THE problem would come from a different dymanic than I instictively expected, but it could also mean there are more ways to rome, and this would certainly help us locate the forgotten secret road going from the roundabout in the dark forest.
As a side note, I have great faith in Abeling-like gravity wheels, the dynamics intrigue me. And the guy seems to be very sincere. If it does, both may work on the same principle, but the pendulum if possible even complicates it all.
Furthermore, if it works, research will be required to create high-frequency systems. Like, a wheel, or OU rollercoaster with steel balls.

Looking forward to your updates,

J

Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1159 on: September 29, 2009, 04:27:13 PM »
Indeed Jim, your wheels stop so abrubtly that a strong force must have been rubbed against its feathers. Obviously you're getting closer yourself ;-)

Charlie_V

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1160 on: September 29, 2009, 05:04:23 PM »
I'm building a setup myself.  Although it is not as grand as Raymond's.  My pendulum is only 16" long and the design is my own, not Milkovic's.  But it operates on the same principle except my pivot point does not move.  I'll let you know how it works once finished.

Charlie

Nabo00o

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1161 on: September 29, 2009, 05:09:17 PM »
I'm building a setup myself.  Although it is not as grand as Raymond's.  My pendulum is only 16" long and the design is my own, not Milkovic's.  But it operates on the same principle except my pivot point does not move.  I'll let you know how it works once finished.

Charlie

A sketch would be interesting to see  ;D
I would be really interested to see how you countered the pivot action...

Charlie_V

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1162 on: September 29, 2009, 05:27:57 PM »
I'll try to get a sketch up when I get time.  Sorry I'm at work and can't do it right now.

Nabo00o

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1163 on: September 29, 2009, 05:43:14 PM »
I'll try to get a sketch up when I get time.  Sorry I'm at work and can't do it right now.

Hey no hurry! Just interested when you have the time, new ideas and angels are very helpful.

Julian

Merg

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1164 on: September 30, 2009, 09:22:29 PM »
We should contact these guys to hear their opinion
http://www.arts.unsw.edu.au/pendulum/

They are the pendulum experts and they, as scientists dedicated to the research of the pendulum motion, must be interested to see/consider if there is something new related to the pendulum.
 
They shouldn't ignore the existence of this effect because we don't talk here about the theory or mathematical models - we are dealing here with the real models built and everyone can see there is "something" new here.

utilitarian

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1165 on: September 30, 2009, 11:02:06 PM »
We should contact these guys to hear their opinion
http://www.arts.unsw.edu.au/pendulum/

They are the pendulum experts and they, as scientists dedicated to the research of the pendulum motion, must be interested to see/consider if there is something new related to the pendulum.
 
They shouldn't ignore the existence of this effect because we don't talk here about the theory or mathematical models - we are dealing here with the real models built and everyone can see there is "something" new here.

There is nothing new here.  What you have is a pendulum and a see-saw.  Eventually it stops moving, like predicted.

This is no different from chaos pendulums.  Search for some on youtube and you will see.  To the untrained, they may look impressive and overunity-like, but there is not free energy there, and none here.

Here is one of many examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whvl6CikDxA

TechStuf

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1166 on: September 30, 2009, 11:13:05 PM »
Utilitarian's right....it's a baa-aaad idea....nothing to see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whvl6CikDxA

moo-oove along.


Utilitarian you sly dog, you.


P.S. Where's the 'chaos'?  Looks highly ordered to me.

Nabo00o

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1167 on: September 30, 2009, 11:20:03 PM »
Utilitarian, you must stop assuming that we are all still at the basics here, not understanding anything about physics in general. As everyone knows, yes this thing will stop if you push it and leave it alone, friction exists in all mechanical systems.

Secondly we know there is loss in this system, there is in fact energy lost when it is used to provide mechanical power, nobody here (or at least most) disagrees with this.

But the reason why this is not the usual active power versus reactive power (like emf and back emf caused by Lenz's law), or friction against physical work, is that his machine is designed to use the parametrically "induced" oscillation from the pendulum to power the hinge, and it is not as simple as you might expect. A more careful investigation of its operation shows this...

Julian

utilitarian

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1168 on: September 30, 2009, 11:42:45 PM »

But the reason why this is not the usual active power versus reactive power (like emf and back emf caused by Lenz's law), or friction against physical work, is that his machine is designed to use the parametrically "induced" oscillation from the pendulum to power the hinge, and it is not as simple as you might expect. A more careful investigation of its operation shows this...

Julian

And how is this different from a chaos pendulum?

OK, go ahead and approach a scientist about this.  You will not get even a raised eyebrow.

Nabo00o

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1169 on: October 01, 2009, 12:53:40 AM »
Quote
And how is this different from a chaos pendulum?

OK, go ahead and approach a scientist about this.  You will not get even a raised eyebrow.

A true scientist, if approached with this invention, and if he had the knowledge which could help him grasp the aspects cowered in it, would respond with intriguing interest and ask questions as to why it can do what I claim it to do. If he however, like most in the established scientific community has been learned and taught from the beginning that some things are impossible and that some things should never be questioned, then he will eventually like the kid who was bullied from childhood begin to take the role as the bully, or as the scientist with his unquestionable authority.

I call this dogma, on the same level as religion. We are then weighting the evidence against the important rules and laws that we have been taught, and the laws wins.


Back to the question. What makes you think that this has anything to do with the chaos pendulum?
Please explain why and then we could discuss further.
I'm not trying to be rude here, but lets keep the focus where it should be, and not on unrelated subjects.

Julian
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 01:33:28 AM by Nabo00o »