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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: hartiberlin on December 01, 2006, 12:11:41 AM

Title: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on December 01, 2006, 12:11:41 AM
Hi All,
here is Mr. Milkovic,
who has invented a great new mechanical oscillation system,
that seems to output 12 times more energy than inputed into the system !
Very convincing video demonstration !

Maybe this is also one effect Bessler did use in his wheel ?


http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html)

44.MB Video at
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-1)_full_video_presentation.wmv (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-1)_full_video_presentation.wmv)


or here:

http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-1)_full_video_presentation.wmv

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: djancak on December 01, 2006, 04:32:50 AM
i just watched the video.  ;D

this is a very fascinating yet simple machine. he demonstrates it's ease of use to do a powerful amount of work several times.

however, he does NOT show the device powering itself, which is the best way to demonstrate overunity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nwman on December 01, 2006, 06:19:25 AM
I agree! If he can show it powering itself then I will believe. It should be a relatively simple process to do. I'm surprised he went with a water pump instead of driving a motor. Plus, there is little math explained in the video that shows the flow of energy. Observations can be vary misleading. I'm still looking into it. Another note is it looks like he has had this setup for years and yet there is no coverage of it in the US? One would think if it really works and its as open sourced as it is that it would be well known by now. Just thoughts.

Tim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 01, 2006, 06:41:37 AM
his machine does show over unity except it is not set up in a closed loop fashion. the massive lever does show more output than what is needed to keep the pendulum swinging.

(http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/oscilator.jpg)
Figure 1. Mechanical hammer with a pendulum
1 - anvil, 2 - massive lever, 3 - lever axel, 4 - physical pendulum
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on December 01, 2006, 07:07:53 AM
I now studied the underlying principle a bit
and it seems, it converts gravitational energy to
mechanical energy, so it taps the gravitational field.

Very interesting !

The example with the 2 dynamo flashlights is very convincing !
You see instantly, that he extracts more energy than he is putting
into the system !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on December 01, 2006, 08:00:00 AM
Have a look at this video !

This shows amazingly, how the gravity is used to light up
the dynamo flashlights, while very little
input power is used only
to keep the pendulum swinging:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv
 (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 01, 2006, 08:06:29 AM
that is fantastic!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 01, 2006, 08:32:58 AM
so i am guessing to close the loop we would place a magnet at the end of the massive lever arm where it swings back and forth close to some wrapped coil and that wrapped coil would feed a capacitor and that capacitor would run a small motor to keep the pendulum swinging so this way the system sustains itself in motion :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 01, 2006, 12:09:17 PM
I would suggest transfering the kinetic energy from the striking end
of the lever to a fly wheel then you can add magnets and coils to it.

I'm attaching an animated version of my idea.
It's not to scale and I left out the connecting rods. (tired)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 01, 2006, 12:33:22 PM
Also:

How to electrostaticly run a pendulum for a lifetime...
http://www.sparkmuseum.com/PERPMO.HTM
http://www.physics.ox.ac.uk/history.asp?page=Exhibit1

I would assume like all working concepts it can be scaled up.
 ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pg46 on December 01, 2006, 01:39:34 PM
This dual mechanical oscillation system is so very cool  8)

 Nice to see strictly mechanical systems for a change. I think this one undoubtably works.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 01, 2006, 01:42:34 PM
lets just see how it is we close the loop on this system before we start declaring a victory .. slowly slowly ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 01, 2006, 01:45:05 PM
ie .. how much energy does it take to observe and interact with the pendulum in just the way that a human can interpret the system to keep it going with what seems to be minimal effort ???

but loving it all the same  ....
Title: Energetic analysis
Post by: abassign on December 01, 2006, 02:40:24 PM
Observing the movies, I have made a calculation on the energy necessary in order to maintain the pendulum in oscillation:
I have noticed that it is a lot important that the pendulum maintains it the angle of oscillation beyond the 45?
I have noticed that it is necessary to give to an impulse of every energy 2 second ones.
From these data, estimating the weight of the pendulum it is of approximately 18 Kg, obtains the following appraisal:
For an oscillation that goes from 45? to 40?: 1,35 W-h
For an oscillation that goes from 45? to 35?: 2,57 W-h
Where:
Pendulum weight : 18 Kg
Length of the arm between the point of application and the barycentre: 25 cm
From all this, if the data from me gain to you are corrected, the apparatus is sure an exceptional converter of the energy of gravitational field to mechanical energy.
I would wish that someone can make a similar analysis, in order according  to comprise if my analysis is corrected,  by the observation of the movie:
Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv

Ciao, from Firenze
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on December 01, 2006, 03:54:29 PM
In the end, we need a clear figure for work done, energy
output per second. We need a wattage.
Paul.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on December 01, 2006, 05:21:49 PM
Hi abassign,

I am not so keen on mathematics but I found an analysis of this mechanical oscillation system, see link:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Mathematical_analisys_Tosic_english.pdf

Maybe you could figure out something about input/output ratio??

Gyula
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stevewal2 on December 01, 2006, 05:24:59 PM
It would'nt be difficult to use an electromagnet to attract the pendulem in certain parts of it's swing to keep it going. But I'm thinking that any method for continuing the swing should not interfere with the up and down movement of the fulcrum.

Very interesting devise though.  Hopefully get some replications soon with electrical unput and output.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on December 01, 2006, 05:53:27 PM
this is not about this but, you have to understand, that windows is a bugging device..

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=279939&page=6

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mflynn44 on December 01, 2006, 06:03:25 PM
Interesting video. Well, appearances are often deceiving. You can bet that they have tried everything they could think of to close the loop. Since that apparently hasn't been done, it's probably another scam.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Gregory on December 01, 2006, 06:48:55 PM
Guys,

I am just wondering why are you jumping into this too deep...
Nothing new here. This is a lever and a heavy pendulum, not as special. Every child out of primary (or maybe secondary) school can have the knowledge to throw together a similar device. This is the point.

It does what it does, exactly as He demonstrated. But not overunity. The loop cannot be closed just in that simple way...
However it brings on some interesting possibilities, which suggest that these experiments has real value in it, really worth to study and think about it deeper.

And "sadly" this is the best video I have ever seen about this kind of (gravity) devices.

Cheers,
Greg

P.S.: BTW, this is not 12 times more output than input.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mikestocks2006 on December 01, 2006, 07:04:29 PM
Interesting video. Well, appearances are often deceiving. You can bet that they have tried everything they could think of to close the loop. Since that apparently hasn't been done, it's probably another scam.

There is an easy way to prove if this is OU. Fully mechanical way too.

Build the setup as shown e.g. the one with the hammer.
1. Hold the hammer (output arm) down fixed with a screw or a tie or a vice so it is motionless
2. Move the pendulum to a fixed height from its resting position
3. Record the weight of the pendulum
4. record the height and let go
5. record the amount of time it takes to come to a stop.(only needed to measure friction losses on the pendulum side)

All the original energy put into the system will have been dissipated into friction (air, pivot etc) we can even calculate the amount of energy lost per cycle due to friction by counting the number of swings it takes to stop etc. (Ein = Mpend x G x Hpend)
Ein= energy in, Mpend= Mass of pendulum, G=acceleration of grav H = height

Next
6. Attach a flywheel/crancksafht link to the output arm. (convert linear movement up/down to rotational)
7. On the shaft of the flywheel tie a string and a known weight and let it hung
8. Measure the distance (vertical) the weight has moved by the action of the string being wrapped around the shaft. When the system comes to a stop.

Eout=Mweight x G x Hweight

With claims of energy out is 12 x energy in, friction is non important for all practical purposes.

If Eout is measured greater than E in then it is an OU device.

If that?s the case  one can easily couple the flywheel back to the pendulum to give it ?small push? on every cycle to assure self sustaining system plus energy to spare.
An interesting system nevertheless, with frequency and harmonic resonance implications.

Note if one wants to measure friction losses on the rest of the system (main output arm, flywheel, other bearing surfaces it's easily done too.) Again with 12 to 1, friction is basically non issue here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on December 01, 2006, 07:28:53 PM
I read Mr. Mikovic's web site about a year ago and found this machine very interesting. As well it relates directly to gravity wheels,I made a post here in the forum describing how a mass can dissapear from a rotational system(a circle).
Basically if the pendulum is at the far left upper position, the center of rotation see's no mass acting downward, it produces a force to the left only,so the center of rotation does not move. When the pendulum is at the bottom of the swing it has centrifugal force plus gravity acting downward on the mass, moving the center of rotation downward. Next when in the upper right position, as the pendulum stops it again becomes massless relative to the point of rotation.
So how does this machine differ from known systems?
One asymetrical system not conservative is the centrifugal force component which acts only in line with gravity. Another asymetrical system is gravity acting on the mass "only" in the lower position, as I said when the mass is in the upper positions decelerating it losses all mass relative to the center of rotation.
This machine has zero resemblance to conventional pendulum systems when you alalyze it properly.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 01, 2006, 07:58:18 PM
I've got a non scientific test for this device!  I'll stick my finger in the pendulum side and a cynic can stick their finger in the hammer side and we can see who wins!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pg46 on December 01, 2006, 08:10:15 PM
Good one konduct!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Katalinski on December 01, 2006, 08:15:46 PM
HA HA HA HA HA !!! ( :D :D :D :D :D)

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Tok_i_rezultatiEng.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mikestocks2006 on December 01, 2006, 08:26:30 PM
A common mistake, is equating force with energy. Take an example of a common straight lever (ends A, B) with pivot at point C between A and B.
Place the pivot close to A so e.g. AC=1/10 of CB.
It will take a force of 10 times more at A to hold B
1 pound at B will require 10 pounds at A. Is this common lever OU?
Just an illustration :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on December 01, 2006, 08:35:46 PM
It could be if the 10 pounds at A was not supplied by gravity but the so called no-existant force of cetrifugal action.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 01, 2006, 11:51:35 PM
yes i like the flywheel idea. still we would have to build it to see some real results.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nwman on December 02, 2006, 12:27:42 AM
Another thing that makes it fishy beside being around for so long is that he is trying to sell things on his site. A man with such a potentially grate device should be rolling in the money and not selling books at $3.77US. Just saying this to keep grounded. I still wont rule it out. It can quickly get confusing when you have multiple rotational forces acting upon each other. So much so that you can confuse data. I do believe gravity is a power source. I'm still working on it.

Tim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nwman on December 02, 2006, 12:38:15 AM
One thought on how to make it a loop:

Use the flywheel setup to generate electrical power.

Make the pendulum have a small electric motor on it that can pull the weight on the pendulum up the pendulum arm.

Then you could keep lifting the weight up to maintain the pendulum action without disturbing the swinging. I think?

Anyone know how afficient you can get a generator to motor transfer? I saw one online that was only 60% but I would imagine given higher quality components you could get up to 95%?

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/genmot.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/genmot.html)

Tim

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on December 02, 2006, 01:14:52 AM
Hi Gregory,
please explain,
why you think it is not 12 timesmore out than in ?

Have a look at this:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement_with_oscilloscope.pdf

Here is a Power comparison,
unfortunately not in english language from a professor,
but you can see, that the output in Watts is much higher than the input !

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analiza_dinamo_lampe.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on December 02, 2006, 01:33:36 AM
I read Mr. Mikovic's web site about a year ago and found this machine very interesting. As well it relates directly to gravity wheels,I made a post here in the forum describing how a mass can dissapear from a rotational system(a circle).
Basically if the pendulum is at the far left upper position, the center of rotation see's no mass acting downward, it produces a force to the left only,so the center of rotation does not move. When the pendulum is at the bottom of the swing it has centrifugal force plus gravity acting downward on the mass, moving the center of rotation downward. Next when in the upper right position, as the pendulum stops it again becomes massless relative to the point of rotation.
So how does this machine differ from known systems?
One asymetrical system not conservative is the centrifugal force component which acts only in line with gravity. Another asymetrical system is gravity acting on the mass "only" in the lower position, as I said when the mass is in the upper positions decelerating it losses all mass relative to the center of rotation.
This machine has zero resemblance to conventional pendulum systems when you alalyze it properly.

I fully agree,
in the 90 deegrees uphill position the mass of the pendulum
has no weight onto the fulcrum and only, if it is
at the downhill positionit is heavy enough to pull
the fullcrum up.

So it seems it is a phase shifting device,
which interacts only in one position with gravity
and thus both motions are independant of each other
or spoken in "electrical" terms, the output
has no real back drag onto the input,
cause the input is already almost 90 degrees out of phase...


I wonder, if it is possible to build an electrical "equivalent compensation"
circuit, that acts like the mechanical device ?

Normally every mechanical oscillator system could also
be simulated via electric analog oscillators coils and caps...

But as the gravity field is here the powering field,
we would have to see, how a constant gravity field
could have any impact onto a 2 tank  LC circuit.

Maybe with LC oscillators we can use a permanent magnet field
instead and draw power from it in a simular way...

Pondering away, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on December 02, 2006, 01:53:40 AM
It's interesting as well that as the pedulum is moving up and away from the hammer side, the heavy end while falling has a fling effect on the pendulum accelerating it upward.
I saw a site called the soup can pendulum, the weight has fluid in it, and the so called scientists said they cannot accurately predict its movement or period. So our best and brightest can't even figure out a pendulum with a soup can on the end- wonderful!
I think we have a lot to learn.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on December 02, 2006, 02:01:32 AM
Here is a try to translate the text into english...


Original:

ANALIZA DINAMO LAMPE
 
(sa kojom se odr?ava oscilacija klatna kod dvostepenog oscilatora i koja predstavlja u isto
vreme i izlazni rad kod istog dvostepenog oscilatora)
 
Prvi rezultati ka?u sledece:
 
Za pun stisak
 
1. kada sam pritiskao 25 punih stisaka za 10 sekundi (2,5 u sekundi) dobio sam
efektivnu vrednost struje 0,103 ?
 
I - efektivno = 0,103 A
U - efektivno = 3,6 V
P (usrednjeno) = 0,384 W
 
2. Za jedan pun stisak u sekundi sam dobio (jedan pun stisak u sekundi)
 
I - efektivno = 0,085 A
U - efektivno = 2,54 V
P = 0,225 W
 
 
Za pola stiska
 
1. 25 polu stiskova za 10 sekundi (2,5 u sekundi)
 
I - efektivno = 0,059 A
U - efektivno = 1,22 V
P = 0,065 W
 
2. jedan polu stisak u sekundi
 
I - efektivno = 0,043 A
U - efektivno = 0,65 V
P = 0,030 W
 
3. jedan polu stisak za dve sekunde
 
I - efektivno = 0,021 A
U - efektivno = 0,55 V
P = 0,009 W
 
Meren je napon na ulazu i struja na ulazu. Otpor ?-metra je 0,1 om, a V-metra 10 mega
oma, ?-metar nije uticao jer je otpor hladne sijalice oko 4 oma. Instrument ima ugraden
vatmetar, tako da koristi mereni napon i merenu struju za merenje snage. Kako se
ocitavanje vr?i jednom u dve sekunde razlikuje se proizvod U * I od prikazane snage.
 
Signal je malo deformisana sinusoida cija se amplituda menja sa brzinom vrtenja diska, a
i ucestanost se menja iz istog razloga. U praznom hodu (bez sijalice napon vrha do vrha
je oko 15 V, a ucestanost oko 200 Hz, a kad se stavi sijalica napon padne na oko 10 V od
vrha do vrha, a ucestanost padne blizu 100 Hz.
 
 
Prof. dr Slobodan Milovancev
 
Univerzitet u Novom Sadu, Fakultet tehnickih nauka
Institut za energetiku, elektroniku i telekomunikacije 
Katedra za elektricna merenja
                                                                                               
Novi Sad, 02.12.2005

===============================================


Online translation via InterTran:


ASSAY DINAMO LAMPE
( from an coyote does conservator oscillation klatna with dvostepenog oscillator plus which is introducing into a invariably worldly plus outgoing workmanship with invariably dvostepenog oscillator )

Leading upshot ka?u sledece : For teeming clutch 1. when unattended pression 25 amply clutch for 10 second (2,5 into a second dobio unattended assets vrednost tide 0,103? PLUS effectively = 0,103 And INTO A effectively V P usrednjeno W 2. For the day teeming clutch into a second unattended dobio ( some teeming clutch into a second ) PLUS effectively = 0,085 And INTO A effectively V P W For half learn 1. 25 semi learn for 10 second (2,5 into a second ) PLUS effectively = 0,059 And INTO A effectively V P W 2. some semi clutch into a second PLUS effectively = 0,043 And INTO A effectively V P W 3. some semi clutch for dve second PLUS effectively = 0,021 And INTO A effectively V P W Fisherman's net had tension at the threshold plus tide at the threshold. Resistance? footage had 0,1 ohm , and V - footage 10 meg oma ,? meter is not uticao because had resistance shade sijalice about oma. Leverage has a ingraft vatmetar , so that I use fisherman's net tension plus fisherman's net tide for fisherman's net vigour. How does ocitavanje vr?i sometime into a dve second the difference is does the product INTO A * PLUS with specter vigour. Signal had few deformisana sinusoida cija does amplituda menja from an brzinom vrtenja disk , and plus ucestanost does menja through invariably reason. Idle ( free of sijalice tension vrha up to vrha had about V , and ucestanost about 200 Hz , and when does to put sijalica tension padne at an about V with vrha up to vrha , and ucestanost padne near site 100 Hz. Prof dr Free Caress University from New-fashion Sadu , Faculty tehnickih discipline Institute after energetics , electronics plus telecommunications Chair after electricity measurement Late At once , 02.12.2005


Hmm, maybe someone who speaks Serbian language can translate this some better ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 02, 2006, 08:38:32 PM
hey everyone,

what if we simply used the dual ociating principle to move the shield in and out of a torbay motor?  seems like it couldn't hurt.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Gregory on December 02, 2006, 10:11:20 PM
Quote
Hi Gregory,
please explain,
why you think it is not 12 timesmore out than in ?

Hi Stefan,
Yes, those measurements and explanations are looking very fascinating, but this is not enough to prove the machine producing 12 times more output than input. If it really does that, then Mr. Mikovic can show as a machine all running by itself. Only after this happens can he measure correctly how much excess energy output is provided by the machine. He also said mistakes are possible.
I think there are some confusing thing about force and energy. If we take a 12:1 ratio lever, we can lift a 12 times heavier mass by one unit of mass, but we don't say the lever puts out 12 times more energy, because we know that the lever is only a force-distance conversion device.

Mr. Mikovic's device is not a lever, only contains one. I think the best thing about his device is the principle, that he uses the momentum and inertia of the heavy horizontally oscillating pendulum to make the hammer move vertically. When the hammer going down gravity helps to it, so only need to be lifted while the motion of the hammer does not affect and slows down the swing of the pendulum. Clever idea, I really like it. As he compared to the gears and cogwheels his system does not work the same way back and forth and very different than gears.

Other things... Maintaining the pendulum's movement looks very easy when we see it maintained by a human being, but doing the same with a mechanism is not the same task and usually harder.
The pendulum oscillating through a much further angle than the hammer, and also it has more weight. That is a good amount of kinetic energy (by gravity) compared to the hammer.

I can say I love Mr. Mikovic's ideas, and I think they show good possibilities regarding Gravity devices and the action-reaction connectivity, but I also think if the machine finally can work in a closed loop (in its present form) it won't produce 12 times more output than input.

I wish a nice weekend to everybody!

Regards,
Greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 02, 2006, 10:24:15 PM
:)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: NerzhDishual on December 03, 2006, 02:58:49 AM


Hi clever overunity.com crowd!

Thanks a lot to Harti_Berlin for these vids (and, BTW, for his web forum).

Just my 2 cents:
The  Reidar Finsrud's (overunity) device is using pendulums (and magnets). Is it not?

Else :
The output is 12 times more important than the input?
If this has been seriously measured we must agree or trying to do our own replication and measurements. Do not we?

My guess is that discovering any overunity device (output>input) is not so easy but having it self running should be another huge job.

Best
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 03, 2006, 05:11:10 AM
I would assume a tiny electro magnet should be able to lift the pendulum to its optimum fall hieght. A pendulum maintains 99% of its energy in each cycle so the magnetic power required to help it reach its original fall hieght should be minimal. Also since pendulum swing times are basde on the length of the pendulum a control curcuit for the EM should be simple.

Hope that makes sense to those thinking about replication...
I'm actually considering it since mechanics is more my speed.
I'm just waiting to see what other members do with it first.

Great thread!
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pg46 on December 03, 2006, 11:33:26 AM
Somebody's probably already thought about this or mentioned it perhaps so sorry if its repeated.
 How about using a mechanical spring wind up unit like as in a mechanical clock mechanism to power the pendulum. Then using the work end of the lever to mechanically connect to and thus rewind the pendulum spring?
 The same can be done electrically instead also.

Best,
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 03, 2006, 02:31:29 PM
Wow... Thats a great idea. Wind up a little key and see how much
work we can extract from it. Actually Bill mahess can refer us to a
clock kit for a 28 day wind up pendulum clock and dc rewinding
module. That would make calculating the extacted energy over the
next 28 days easy! Hmmmmm I'm spent right now because I'm
investing in the Dr Linnard Griffin cell, but I really want to build this
now too. So many really interesting devices getting posted lately!!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 03, 2006, 10:30:12 PM
It would'nt be difficult to use an electromagnet to attract the pendulem in certain parts of it's swing to keep it going. But I'm thinking that any method for continuing the swing should not interfere with the up and down movement of the fulcrum.

Very interesting devise though.  Hopefully get some replications soon with electrical unput and output.

great idea as well! nice first post of yours!

peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Katalinski on December 04, 2006, 12:39:19 AM
I know work of Milkovic.

That is FAKE.

First:

Find somebody to see realy mesurmens.

Second:

Milkovic work just to self promote. For example -
Whay Milkovic is only on english version of Wikipedia?
"Academic" whit no colege.
Some of Milkovic's acknowlegments are letters from Washintowns library. (Milkovic send his book to library, and thanking replay find plane in his town newspapers in title "America first acknowlage Milkovics work".

Milkovic just have good marketing NOTHING ELSE!

See also some other text on his web page and you will see that Milkovic is not "lunatic" or "creasy", Milkovic is "retard".

example:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/ArheologijaEng.html

Ask him milkovic@neobee.net
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on December 04, 2006, 01:08:37 AM
Hi,

Do you think this video is also fake?
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv

18 lamps are operated by the energy from 1 lamp...  Is this a fake video??  Please speak up if you know facts.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on December 04, 2006, 01:16:17 AM
@ Katalinsk

It's interesting that this person you call a "retard" has a very nice website with lot's of valid content such as the earth home and such. As well I have done some math on his pendulum and quite frankly I find it very innovative as well as his understanding of it's complex movements. So overall I find it very hard to believe anything you have said, with no proof whatsoever being offered.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 04, 2006, 04:25:42 AM
:)
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: konduct on December 04, 2006, 05:45:57 AM
I have built a wooden replication of the device and it works just as it appears in the video.  I still need to re assemble the pendulum with a fixed hinge or bearing.  Just as the Serbian inventor said, an elliptical swing of the pendulum doesn't give the same amount of kinetic energy.  I have been thinking of methods of closing the loop...

It seems that it will take the least amount of energy to push the pendulum once every swing.

The power of the device is basically the difference in weight on either sided of the pendulum...

The "RPM" seems to be mostly related to the length of the pendulum.

The machine almost needs a work load to run...It runs better with resitance (up to max load) on both up and down strokes.

Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: konduct on December 04, 2006, 05:50:43 AM
The "C" Clamp in the picture is to hold the vertical wooden plank on as a temporary "hammer" It also gave me a little extra weight.  The pvc pipe is filled with steel shot and the hanger in the picture is irrelevant.  The little black things toward the front are lead fishing weights coated in rubber.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 04, 2006, 05:54:54 AM
I built one ... http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1769.new.html#new
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: hartiberlin on December 04, 2006, 06:08:43 AM
Konduct,
great !
Could you please try to couple aspring based thread ( ishing line
for example with a spring) to the pendulum weight and
pull with the line the pendulum and fix it via a roll
somehow to the hammer side and thus keep the device going and going ?

Will this never slow down ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Katalinski on December 04, 2006, 09:20:00 AM
@ Katalinsk

It's interesting that this person you call a "retard" has a very nice website with lot's of valid content such as the earth home and such. As well I have done some math on his pendulum and quite frankly I find it very innovative as well as his understanding of it's complex movements. So overall I find it very hard to believe anything you have said, with no proof whatsoever being offered.

Earth house is his only good idea.
Milkovic have "very nice website". So, it?s making content better??? I don?t think so.
Its only good marketing nothing else!
His web site is full of craps. Exactly 100 craps.
Other content is full of solving World misterys (pre-historic civilization) in Danube region (civilization more then 1.ooo.ooo years old  - UGA-UGA civilization), some alian rocks, stupid misterys about Petrovaradin fortress?
In past 10 years Milkovic just promote his own work.
If Milkovic make presentation on University of Novi Sad and on beginning of presentation all professors leave room, what this can tell to you.

Batter ssk someone te translate this text for you:

http://forum.krstarica.com/showthread.php?t=81090&page=1&pp=15
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Katalinski on December 04, 2006, 09:22:16 AM
And last:

remember:

principle of persistency of energy
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: konduct on December 04, 2006, 03:28:42 PM
I was actually thinking of using a shield / unshield with magnets in repulsion to give it a kick each swing.  (I need to fix the pendulum to only swing back and forth first.)  The machine has a lot of power! 

What kind of string and spring setup do you mean?  I can't really visualize the setup. 

It definately puts out more force than in I believe, it's just a little bulky!  You won't find one of these inside of a cell phone anytime soon! =) 
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: pg46 on December 04, 2006, 07:52:50 PM
Thats very cool Konduct and speedy construction too I might add !

I look forward to hearing more of your project.

Best,
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shipto on December 04, 2006, 09:34:39 PM
so if the pendulum moving back and forth is (or should we say "maybe") capable of doing more work on the hammer side (all this hammer talk reminds me of baggy trousers LOL) could a pendulum swinging in a circle do the work too?
If it was it would be simple to attach the pendulum to a low powered motor surely?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 04, 2006, 09:55:20 PM
It's possible in theory, but a non linear pendulum movement will lose energy more rapidly then a linear pendulum.
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: supersam on December 04, 2006, 10:32:23 PM
hey konduct,

if this thing has overunity,  why can't you just take a ratchet gear on the fulcrum axel and use it to swing a gear on the pivot axel of the pendulum?  if the fulcrum axel has enough torque to do this and continue to operate then put another gear on the front to load it if neccessary to turn another gear to spin a generator!

lol
sam
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: konduct on December 04, 2006, 10:39:25 PM
Hmm...I've got some one way bearings...lemme think....same size shaft...have to add a shaft to the pendulum which I need to do anyway...One problem...It would work on the downswing on one side but would be "against the flow" and slam on the brakes on the opposing downswing.  Hmmm...
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: konduct on December 04, 2006, 10:53:56 PM
I'd like to hook it to one of these!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a49d5cJOGQ0&NR
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: supersam on December 05, 2006, 12:14:51 AM
konduct,

that would be awsome!!  but first lets just close the loop.  do you have an old bicycle laying around?  why not use the crank in it with it's bearings for the fulcrum, pivot and the free running back wheel bearings and axel for the pivot on the pendulum.  you should also have all of the gears nesseccary for making it all work, including the chain? 

just a stupid thought.  because we have all been taught that it is impossible! ;)

lol
sam
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: supersam on December 05, 2006, 12:32:28 AM
 ???
Title: Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
Post by: iacob alex on December 05, 2006, 02:46:53 AM
Hi Konduct!Your promotion of Felix Wurth's  "yourtube" movie is an excellent stage entry.If you click   www.evert.de/eft377e.htm  you can find informations,regarding his "Centrifugal-Power-Spider Flop" using the sling effect.He made a public demonstration(1999) at a Swiss Forum,that is a lot of time ago.His aim was to proof overunity.Prof Evert is  very explicative at this site.All the Bests!/Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Marcel on December 05, 2006, 06:34:33 PM
Working Model 2D simulation
Lever Mass=25 Kg
Pendulum mass=40Kg
Lever length= 1m
Springs force=40kg/m

You can downsize the weights:
Lever Mass=12.5 Kg
Pendulum mass=20Kg
Lever length = 1m
Springs force=20kg/m

I will built it very soon!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on December 05, 2006, 11:51:46 PM
Working Model 2D simulation
Lever Mass=25 Kg
Pendulum mass=40Kg
Lever length= 1m
Springs force=40kg/m

You can downsize the weights:
Lever Mass=12.5 Kg
Pendulum mass=20Kg
Lever length = 1m
Springs force=20kg/m

I will built it very soon!!

this sounds like the magic ''3'' to me,by x on the turbo tpu forum,with something to keep giveing it ''kicks''.

what do you think, would you prefer to call it waves ?

yeah i was thinking of permanent magnets to keep it running,as was a nother.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 06, 2006, 12:39:04 AM
Kinda different, since there are only 2 oscillating frequencies in this system and both are oscillating at a close interval. Hence no harmonics created. But this idea does share one similarity which is multiple independent oscillators in the same system can assist each other in such a way that excess energy as a biproduct.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on December 06, 2006, 02:04:45 AM
Working Model 2D simulation
Lever Mass=25 Kg
Pendulum mass=40Kg
Lever length= 1m
Springs force=40kg/m

You can downsize the weights:
Lever Mass=12.5 Kg
Pendulum mass=20Kg
Lever length = 1m
Springs force=20kg/m

I will built it very soon!!

Marcel,
very nice animation in the movie !

What is the "black fly" in the movie ?
What does it show ?

Is that the center of gravity of both of them ?

Where is exactly the fulcrum point in the blue big unit ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Marcel on December 06, 2006, 02:09:01 AM
Kinda different, since there are only 2 oscillating frequencies in this system and both are oscillating at a close interval. Hence no harmonics created. But this idea does share one similarity which is multiple independent oscillators in the same system can assist each other in such a way that excess energy as a biproduct.
There are more 2 mechanical oscillators: the Pendulum, the Lever, and 2 springs.
I will try with 2 different springs forces to get harmonics.
The black fly is the center of the mass of the whole system.
The fulcrum is at 1/3 of the lever length.
Marcel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: djancak on December 06, 2006, 03:55:37 AM
Working Model 2D simulation
Lever Mass=25 Kg
Pendulum mass=40Kg
Lever length= 1m
Springs force=40kg/m

What did you set the coefficient of friction to? I am having a hard time understanding what is happening in this video.  ???

I'd like to hook it to one of these!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a49d5cJOGQ0&NR

that looks awesome! ;D i really hope that you can manage to get this thing to power itself. the video demonstrations are VERY convincing. however, as it was mentioned before, a change in FORCE is NOT a change in POWER. Power = Force * Velocity. There definately seems to be a dramatic change in velocity, but I've never seen a machine powered by a pendulum...

Good Luck!  :o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 06, 2006, 11:20:52 PM
konduct or anyone,

have you had a chance to think about my bicycle crank and free running back axel idea for closind the loop?  i have had to be out of town for a couple of weeks, and then i discovered this thread.  with no way of working on this, the ideas are eating a hole in me. i just can't see why it will not work.  konduct, thanks for the support.  marcel, do think the ratchering gear connected to a free floater could keep the pendulum swinging?  can you possibly run a simulation like yours that also takes a measure of torgue on the pendulum axel, if one was incorporated?  i love idea for adding the two springs and the generator in your simulation.  i guess that just gives one more level of interconectivity, in a different way, that seems to have a positive effect!!

let me know what you think.  i think this machine might be brought to overunity and close the loop.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 07, 2006, 08:00:29 PM
marcel,

what three frquencies ended up being used to create the perfect machine in your sims?  i was just wondering if these might be used in a soid state setup?  have you even thought about what might be accomplished if you didn't have the restrictions of friction that you will have in a mechanical deevice?  just wondering!!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Marcel on December 07, 2006, 10:38:32 PM
marcel,

what three frquencies ended up being used to create the perfect machine in your sims?  i was just wondering if these might be used in a soid state setup?  have you even thought about what might be accomplished if you didn't have the restrictions of friction that you will have in a mechanical deevice?  just wondering!!!!

lol
sam
I think 3 frequencies are a minimum to generate harmonic oscillations. Maybe using strong magnets instead springs to avoid frictions.
The software WM2d cannot compute repelling magnetic fields. ( The repel force between two magnet is not linear instead springs... It is inverse square of distance... and I cannot define this parameter in WM2d.)
Friction forces of the bearings and air friction have been added in simulation. So the system stops after 1 hour! And never stops if frictions are set to 0.
I have to find a system to power a little bit the pendulum ( when it is at his higher position ) with an electro-magnet or a little motor.
For me, the Milovik's videos are very convincing and the question needs to be examined in more detail to achieve overnunity.
Anyway, simulation can help for design but it will never affirm the system will work as expected.
A new design will be added very soon.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 10, 2006, 11:46:48 AM
im thinking of building this in a vertical fashion. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on December 10, 2006, 12:56:38 PM
im thinking of building this in a vertical fashion. :)

The upper bar would move like a metronome, right?

Ok, but:

I think that in the Milkovic system the basic property of a swinging pendulum is used what I cannot see in your vertical setup.

This property is as follows: when you start a pendulum in rest at 6 o'clock to swing towards either 9 or 3 o'clock by your hand, the weigth of the pendulum's mass changes from its maximum weigth at rest to an almost weightless state at the 9 or 6 o'clock positions. And if you suspend/hold the pendulum's thread in you own  hand, you could feel this periodically changing force and THIS CHANGING FORCE IS what moves the lever up and down.
In your vertical setup, if I see it well, there is a pivot (the upper one) which holds the bar and also takes up the force the pendulum's changing weigth exercises so most of the force the swinging gives is absorbed by that pivot. Of course your upper bar will swing but somehow I feel you lose a lot of force the pendulum can provide with a movable pivot solution like in Milkovic setup.

rgds
Gyula
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 10, 2006, 01:07:47 PM
is that 12 times metric or imperial  ::)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 10, 2006, 01:11:48 PM
when i pulled my sister back on the swing before i gave her that first push .. i kinda remember that that!!! was the hard part, the little pushes afterward were quite easy.. maybe i should watch the video again .. to see if i am missing where that original work is being dones in this equation ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 10, 2006, 01:17:35 PM
i remember another equation that may come in to play in this illusion .. work/time =  ...
maybe the battery pump lever (spring) can transfer the energy to the external system over that time where as in short burst the resistance of the spring in the lever cannot transfer the work done to an external system, hence we see the light .. well .. light up..  maybe ?

still a nifti and convincing slight of hand in my books .. but overunity .. maybe not ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 10, 2006, 01:19:30 PM
thanks for the input. either way i have to try it out.

peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 10, 2006, 01:22:32 PM
when i finally crack the da vinci code of this overunity stuff .. i think i will refrain friom lighting bulbs to convice anyone as it seems that it is becoming quite the trendy thing to do to wow the crowds these days ..

hmm .. come to think of it its been around for some time .. us humans love a good light show hey ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 10, 2006, 01:24:06 PM
FE,

please do .. really had to take my time chewing on this idea, really liked it myself there for a while.

Cheers,

Dean
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on December 10, 2006, 06:57:52 PM
I use a computer fan to measure load or output, fans do not lie- it takes a known amount of energy to turn them. A light bulb can be rigged- pulsed high voltage input gives the illusion of high power consumption with a small input. smoke and mirrors.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 10, 2006, 11:56:07 PM
AC,

Have you seen the pyramid resonating coil video posted here in overunity a while ago, he had fan running from that, I particularly like pyramids, like most of us fringies, i got quite hooked on them as a kid. I especially like the video where that gentleman proposes the power plant idea.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3182229760005676897&q=pyramid+power

All in good fun ofcourse, find him a little hard to take seriously.

Regards,

Dean

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 11, 2006, 12:04:27 PM
I've been working on this in WM2D now for roughly 2 days and I wanted to report what I have found so far:

A component of the device does violate the law of conservation of energy, but NOT in a way that I can say is overunity yet. I can say it violates the conservation of energy in a simulated environment because I tested it by using two separate pendulums one stationary and one attached to a flexible lever. Both pendulums ran for the same amount of time so no power was taken from either pendulum by any force other than gravity and wind resistance, but the pendulum attached to the lever was able to supply a ample amount of power to a damper. The kinetic energy supplied to the dampers was somehow taken during interaction but the energy was taken in such a way as to avoid taking any kinetic energy from the pendulum. If the energy that was supplied to the dampers was taken from the kinetic energy of dropping the pendulum the pendulum would not be able to swing for as much time or at the same amplitude as the mirrored yet stationary control pendulum.

Am I missing something simple here? Is this really a violation of thermodynamics?

If anyone has a explanation for my findings or suggestions please respond with @dingus.

Thanks to all,
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 11, 2006, 11:33:26 PM
@Dingus

The sum of the initial position and the resting states are still the same for each solution ?

Can you confirm that the damper did not impart the same amount of energy back to the system ? (or at least most of it)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 11, 2006, 11:57:23 PM
Here's a link that shows the tension force produced by a pendulum that starts 90 degrees from equilibrium position.

http://www.vernier.com/discussion/index.html?topic=54

Basically, the tension force is 3 times the weight of the pendulum as it swings to it's lowest point, or equilibrium point.

It only takes a fraction of this force to keep the pendulum swinging. Maybe only 1/12 the power, as Milkovic mentioned. So everytime the pendulum swings, you get 3 times the force pulling down on the lever with only a fraction of the power needed to keep it swinging. One only needs to tap that power on the other end of the lever.

Maybe a crank connected to a flywheel could be used to tap that power. Then connect the flywheel to a generator using gear ratios to generate enough RPMs to run the generator. A fraction of that power produced is then fed back to solenoids to sustain the pendulum swing of about 90 degrees.

Of course in the process of converting mechanical to electrical you will loose some due to inefficencies, but with a ratio of 1 to 12 input to output, we have a lot of room for it.

Below is a diagram of a system that might work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on December 12, 2006, 12:28:43 AM
Hi Brian,

Very good catch on your link, thank you! At least they verified in practice the calculations and surely this 3 times as much force acting on the lever's arm is what could be utilized.
I fully agree with your drawing I wish I had all the mechanical means to test it. Hopefully others may get involved in it too.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 12, 2006, 12:51:58 AM
Hi Gyula,

I'd really like to test the drawing also. Maybe my wife will let me convert her old HealthRider excercise machine into one of these pendulum devices.

http://www.healthrider.com/?BN=13350&GCID=S14083x016&KEYWORD=healthrider

There's lot's of lever points and places to put weights on it. I just have to stand it on end and maybe do some cutting and welding to convert it. But she would probably kill me if I messed around with it.

Brian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 12, 2006, 03:04:03 AM
@Dean
The starting and ending positions of the objects are all sightly different. But those changes were imparted only after dropping the pendulum. I do know a significant portion of the energy is coming from the flexible levers self oscillations when the  pendulum drop occurs. The dampers will resist when stretched or compressed. So I assume they put no energy back, and they only take energy as I understand it. I'm new to this app, and I don't have a full copy of WM2D so I can not save yet! :(

BTW I tried coupling this system to a flywheel for days and discovered that since the frequencies of each component are dropping in value constantly, it is very difficult to keep the wheel and lever working together in a unidirectional manor.

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 12, 2006, 04:41:31 AM
HEY,

has anyone given any consideration to tapping the lever power at the axel with a one way gear, like a crank shaft bearing, on a eighteen speed bicycle?  the free running back axel could be used to swing the pendulem on the down sroke or the upstroke, depending on how you sat it up and you would have aq number of gears to play with as well.

i know i can get these bicycle's for about a dollar u.s. at any goodwill store.  it even looked like one of milkovic's set ups was made with a frame off an old bicycle.  i don't know if he ever tried to use the crank and back axel to swing his pendulem to close the loop.

i can,t wait to get back to my shop to give it a try!!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 12, 2006, 06:42:00 AM
Sam,

Excellent idea with the one way bicycle gearing. That would work perfectly for this setup!

Brian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: 2tiger on December 12, 2006, 11:14:42 AM
Hi all
If you are trying to close the loop don?t use a crank with a flywheel. The mass of the flywheel will create a back drag on the lever and influence the swinging pendulum.
In my opinion the pendulum has to swing free in order to create this effect (12 times more ...).
The crank will also synchronize this device and I?m sure that this is not what we are looking for.
Stefan mentioned this before in one of his replies, that here is a kind of phase shifting in play.
The idea with the one way gear in the center of the lever seems very good to me.
But I would also try this one you see in the pic. With parts of a harddisk-drive, the read/write head.

add:
In that way you can tap the energy directly form the coil and mantain the swinging motion.

You can also align a few of them. In series or even in parallel if you want.

kr
2Tiger
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 12, 2006, 11:24:30 AM
Hi all
If you are trying to close the loop don?t use a crank with a flywheel. The mass of the flywheel will create a back drag on the lever and influence the swinging pendulum.
In my opinion the pendulum has to swing free in order to create this effect (12 times more ...).
The crank will also synchronize this device and I?m sure that this is not what we are looking for.
Stefan mentioned this before in one of his replies, that here is a kind of phase shifting in play.
The idea with the one way gear in the center of the lever seems very good to me.
But I would also try this one you see in the pic. With parts of a harddisk-drive, the read/write head.

add:
In that way you can tap the energy directly form the coil and mantain the swinging motion.

You can also align a few of them. In series or even in parallel if you want.

kr
2Tiger

so i am guessing to close the loop we would place a magnet at the end of the massive lever arm where it swings back and forth close to some wrapped coil and that wrapped coil would feed a capacitor and that capacitor would run a small motor to keep the pendulum swinging so this way the system sustains itself in motion :)

or have the coil wrapped around the massive lever arm where it swings back and forth close to some magnets. the coil would feed a capacitor and that capacitor would run a small motor to keep the pendulum swinging so this way the system sustains itself in motion  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 12, 2006, 05:28:31 PM
I think you guys are correct about not using a flywheel wheel with a crank. However, I believe a flywheel will work if it is freewheeling, as in the back wheel of a bike. It's freewheeling relative to the crank in one direction so it does not interfere with the pendulum as much. The back wheel would be the flywheel. That's why I like Sam's the idea of the one-way gear.

Also, in the drawing where there are coils and neo magnets near the pivot point of the lever, maybe it was left out on purpose, but there should be a counter weight to the pendulum, such as a massive left arm, or an arm connected to a counter spring.

Below is another diagram using bicycle parts. Thanks for the ideas.

Brian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 12, 2006, 07:03:29 PM
Hey guys,

I just emailed the inventor himself, Veljko Milković.  Hopefully, he will respond with some good advise and suggestions.

Here's what I emailed:

Hello Mr. Milkovic,

In the www.overunity.com discussion forum, we are discussing your pendulum invention. Thank you for sharing it with us in your website.

Attached is an idea that we came up with using your concepts of the pendulum.

Can you give any suggestions or improvements on it? From this link we know that we can get a force on the pendulum side that is 3 times the weight of the pendulum, assuming it starts at 90 degrees:

http://www.vernier.com/discussion/index.html?topic=54

Looking forward for any input you can give us.

Best Regards,

Brian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on December 12, 2006, 07:57:56 PM
Hi Brian,

I think that was a good idea from you and from my part I look forward to see the outcome  ;)

Probably you have noticed Veljko Milković's patent references at his site,  http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/PatentiEng.html and the good thing is he also considered to generate electricity with his lever+pendulum setup, see http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Patent3.jpg    and a modification of the basic setup: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Patent18.jpg where he replaced the pendulum with a electric motor and an arm attached to the electric motor's shaft to utilize gravitational and centrifugal forces transformed to the other side of the lever.

Supersam's idea is also excellent with the one way gear, I do agree and the notices/suggestions from 2tiger are also very very good.

Thanks to you all!

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 12, 2006, 08:36:02 PM
KONDUCT,

where are you man?  this keeps looking better and better! i think with just two spare bikes 2$ u.s. we can not only keep the pendulum moving with brians idea we should be able to generate excess power.  where are you?  with your speed in replication this thing could be put to bed before i even get back to my shop!!!!  i hope you are still watching this. or maybe someon else can jump on this.  it would sure be a nice christmas present for me!!

lol

sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 12, 2006, 08:55:19 PM
hey brian,

if the system seems to work best when loaded why not use the downstroke to power the pendulum and the upstroke to power the generator, or a flywheel to keep the generator, spinning at a constant speed for optimal performance.  if we really have 12 times more power out than in it seems to me like both could be accomplished!!!

lol
sam

ps.  if you need alittle more from my downstroke, to swing the pendulum i am sure there is plenty of power to spare and my center shaft at the fulcrum does have two sides? :o  all we need is a few more gears.  i have already figured we needed to do something with the extra energy after we put just a little in to swing the pendulum.  no matter how we gear it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 12, 2006, 08:55:40 PM
hey,

can somebody do a simulation on these setups combined? 

LOL
SAM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on December 12, 2006, 09:04:47 PM
hey brian,

if the system seems to work best when loaded why not use the downstroke to power the pendulum and the upstroke to power the generator, or a flywheel to keep the generator, spinning at a constant speed for optimal performance.  if we really have 12 times more power out than in it seems to me like both could be accomplished!!!

lol
sam

ps.  if you need alittle more from my downstroke, to swing the pendulum i am sure there is plenty of power to spare and my center shaft at the fulcrum does have two sides? :o  all we need is a few more gears.  i have already figured we needed to do something with the extra energy after we put just a little in to swing the pendulum.  no matter how we gear it.

To me , this sounds like a hybrid, where that does more work than that,also sounds like a pulse gravity motor :-).

With the coil , and capacitor, when it moves in to the loop point, you could have a thing where it fires of the capacitor, to fire the motor(?) for automatic pulseing,unless you use a manual timer.....then you got to think about, how much electric motor power it requires to make the machine to start of again,

just an idea.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 12, 2006, 09:56:23 PM
daniel,

not really, we already have enogh power without charging a cap!  think about it.  if we have more than enough to swing the pendulum on the downstroke, and extra to feed the fly wheel, then the upstroke is there for nothing but free energy conversion to flywheel nd then electrical power, and of course the frictional losses of such a mechanical system.

lol
sam

ps:  but with 12:1, what is wrong with giving 10% back?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 12, 2006, 09:58:23 PM
Hey guys!  This thing is just taking up space in my kitchen right now! I need to do something with it. Lol!  

The free wheeling flywheel should work fine.  Someone earlier mentioned it would take the pendulum out of phase.  Not so...the pendulum's phase is independent of the lever.

The main thing holding me up is figuring out the generator / solenoid setup to push the pendulum.  Any suggestions?  (Sam, I like the idea of using one stroke for excess energy and the other stroke for pendulum input!  The machine should like it as well.)

I'm assuming I can hook some sort of DC motor up and crank on the shaft to get some juice out?  Any idea how much juice I'll need to push that pendulum back and forth? I was thinking along the lines of a jig saw type motor since I can get one for about $20 from Walmart but I don't know if its actually a DC motor since it gets plugged into the wall?  (Maybe incorporate Flynn's Parrallel Path into the solenoid for grins.  Conservation is half the battle in OU sometimes.)

Help me fill in some of these blanks and I'll gladly hook it all up!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 12, 2006, 10:03:05 PM
I've got some roller switches I think will work to fire the solenoids.  I figure I can put them at an optimum height and let the pendulum control the timing.  From what I understand, a pendulum's oscillation time remains constant, regardless of its "amplitude".
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 12, 2006, 10:39:34 PM
hey konduct,

i am thinking two different bicycle gear setups on either side of the center shaft at the fulcrum, then you can gear with the bicycle gears the output to the pendulum one way and use any excess out of the otherside of the shaft geared differently to use up the power spining the flywheel setup brian sugested to help boost the flywheel.  with brians setup you can also use the bicycle gears to speed the flywheel to make extra power.  does any of this make since?

lol
sam















Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 12, 2006, 10:43:32 PM
Below is another diagram with a real bike. This is what I had in mind.

Yes we should make use of both up and down strokes so energy is not wasted.

To make use of the downstroke, maybe the energy can be stored in the spring as in the diagram. This is what is in the pump invention. I think it had two springs.

Brian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 12, 2006, 10:46:29 PM
By the way, maybe the front suspension should be replaced by a solid fork!!!  ::)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 12, 2006, 10:49:16 PM
NOW!

stupid question of the day, why can this not also be used to overcome the sticky point?  some of you magnet guys need to jump on this!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 12, 2006, 11:06:46 PM
brian,

nice setup, however if you don't want to swing the pendulum, we have got to figure out some way to swing the pendulum, when we are not around.  i think your idea of having a selinoid kick it is great, but what are you going to do with the excess mechanical energy?  boy doesn't that seem like a stupid question?  but at 12:1 there have to be some answers to something.  i know my system wastes it in mechanical energy, due to friction, and other mechanical problems, but all the energy must be used in the end!!! i was only trying to close the loop for now, and then start working on extra efficiencies for an overunity system.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 13, 2006, 12:45:22 AM
Sam,

To keep the pendulum swinging while we are not around, I was thinking of using a sprinkler solenoid like this:

http://www.starnursery.com/images/items/938401.jpg

The power from a generator on the back wheel could power this solenoid.
Maybe a generator like this can fill up some capacitors to power the solenoid:

http://www.aztlanbicycle.com/images/products/lowrider-accessories/series-00123-lights.jpg

Brian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 13, 2006, 01:48:08 AM
brian,

don't get me wrong,  maybe two setups like yours will be best.  i just wanted to take advantage of the power on the upswing and the downswing of the lever.  i had posted a stupid idea at the top of page 3.  that i have since gone back and made a smiley face because i couldn't figure out how to make the single direction bicycle crank work in both directions, maybe you have come up with the solution.

i don't think milkovic ever used the spring for anything but providing a, LOAD, to keep the machine running optimally.  if we can figure out aq useful way to load the machine without a spring, then?  if you think a spring is helpful, then two springs, added to our setup as in the earlier post on this site might be something to consider in conjunction to these other things.  in other words i don't see having a top and bottom spring driving a circuit could hurt anything with 12:1 input to output.

is any of this making any scense?  is a hybrid the way to get to overunity?  can it be done with one disciplen alone?  it seems nobody is getting there by themselves, but alot of people are getting close!!!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 13, 2006, 01:56:38 AM
hey everyone,

i guess what i am trying to convey is the old story of the man with ten sons.  the old man passes a bundle of ten sticks tied togeather around to each of his ten sons, and asks each of them to break the bundle.  of course none of them is able to do so.  he then takes the bundle apart and hands each of them one stick to break, and all ten of the sons is able to break his stick.

i guess my point is in which case did the work get done??

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pg46 on December 13, 2006, 03:34:09 AM
Hi All-

 If you want to run a generator why not use what the inventor demonstrated in his videos - the hand held flashlight dynamos?
They can produce power from the verticle linear motion and can also be used as a spring. You can place them under and above the lever to take advantage of both strokes. You can tie as many together as you would require to increase the spring strength and to increase power production levels.
 These flashlights are made in large quantities in China and are inexpensive to buy.

Just A Thought
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 13, 2006, 03:40:54 AM
hey brian,

if you find a cheap used bike that has front shocks, why not just throw out the spring, you now have two, remove your strut to hold the spring, and just drill a hole in your lever to accept a axel through the front fork and the lever arm.  does this not seem like the same thing?  maybe you need a block under the haqndle bars.  but maybe not.  but at least you will be getting closer to the possible crank at the axel of the lever.  so i would call this a move in the right direction.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 13, 2006, 03:49:35 AM
hey page 46,

that isn't a bad idea, i hadn't even thought about the spring tension of one of those little flashlights.  however small the voltage when you multiply it by eighteen, using a mehess type setup, why couldn't you keep the pendulum swinging?  great idea. i think what we need here is a few simple builders.  i just can't see why with x input being so small why y output can't close the loop in some way.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Vortex1 on December 13, 2006, 03:59:22 AM
 ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Vortex1 on December 13, 2006, 04:13:41 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 13, 2006, 04:37:44 AM
ramesh,

this was a simple story to get the point across that when we work together we can accomplish more than we can by ourselves!!!!

lol
sam

there are alot of people that are looking at this site that are also working on other devices that might be "overunity" if they can just find a way to jump one hurdle.  i was thinking this might be some help.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on December 13, 2006, 05:13:45 AM
Hi Brian!If a simple experiment(   www.vernier.com/discussion/index.html?topic=54   )proves that ,if you intend to go swinging ,from a 90 degrees angle from the equilibrium position,you must make sure ,that the cable can withstand 3 times your weight,here we have a resembling case with Milkovic's  device,machine(12 times more output....).But,far-out,the difference is more provocative,interesting :an usual pendulum has a stable fulcrum(bearing,pivot),Milkovic's pendular lever has a swinging one.Here is the point:unlike trajectory of the bob.When you say trajectory,you say inertia.The "in-box" action for the bob,is the same(gravity pull or push...as you like).If the "out-box" reaction for the bob ( the same falling height) is different...here we have a problem to think about.The very small creatures,let's say insects,are "ignorant" about inertia ,but they are controlling masterly their  trajectory.Again, must we  go back to nature, for information?          All the Bests!/Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 13, 2006, 05:34:49 AM
o.k. mramos,

gramatical point well taken.  i must ask however why we are all here if not for the possibility?

lol
sam

ps: two heads are still better than one.  imagine with ten.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 13, 2006, 06:20:36 AM
Hi Alex,

Yes there is that added complexity when you're talking about pendulums with moving fulcrums. You're talking about a dynamic system within a dynamic system...hard to calculate, unless you use a computer to do the job like Dingus's Working Model. That is one expensive software!! Real nice though...I wish I had one to play with.

Brian

Hi Brian!If a simple experiment(   www.vernier.com/discussion/index.html?topic=54   )proves that ,if you intend to go swinging ,from a 90 degrees angle from the equilibrium position,you must make sure ,that the cable can withstand 3 times your weight,here we have a resembling case with Milkovic's  device,machine(12 times more output....).But,far-out,the difference is more provocative,interesting :an usual pendulum has a stable fulcrum(bearing,pivot),Milkovic's pendular lever has a swinging one.Here is the point:unlike trajectory of the bob.When you say trajectory,you say inertia.The "in-box" action for the bob,is the same(gravity pull or push...as you like).If the "out-box" reaction for the bob ( the same falling height) is different...here we have a problem to think about.The very small creatures,let's say insects,are "ignorant" about inertia ,but they are controlling masterly their  trajectory.Again, must we  go back to nature, for information?          All the Bests!/Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 13, 2006, 06:33:22 AM
Sam,

That's a good option to start off with just for testing the concept. But later on when you need a bigger, heavier pendulum, we may need those extra extension with some metal tubing.  I'd like to get started right away, but this is final's week at the college.  :(  I should be studying now...but this is too much fun.

Brian


hey brian,

if you find a cheap used bike that has front shocks, why not just throw out the spring, you now have two, remove your strut to hold the spring, and just drill a hole in your lever to accept a axel through the front fork and the lever arm.  does this not seem like the same thing?  maybe you need a block under the haqndle bars.  but maybe not.  but at least you will be getting closer to the possible crank at the axel of the lever.  so i would call this a move in the right direction.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 13, 2006, 08:26:10 AM
Hey Brian. Great graphics and input. What school are you attending? 


~slightly edited~

Sam, I misunderstood you earlier on the lever strokes.  For each pendulum swing, there are two "work" duty cycles by the lever and one "reset" cycle (at the bottom of the pendulum swing.)  If you restrict or tap the reset cycle too much, it will be limiting the next work cycle's distance and counteract the 12:1 ratio. (Taking away from input power will drastically reduce your output when it is at 12:1!) On the other hand, the lever has to stay within a certain angle on each stroke to maintain a good rhythm so there is some energy to "catch" at the end of the reset stroke.  In addition, reading some earlier post on tension as well as my own research, I believe that the pendulum has nearly twice as much power needed to reset the hammer IF  the pendulum is heavy enough to balance the lever at rest. 

If the lever is balanced so that the pendulum is up in the air at rest, than there would be little energy left over for any work on the reset cycle.  If the pendulum is "heavy" and the hammer is in the air at rest, then you are directly diminishing the leverage of your hammer since the pendulum already has a weight advantage.  I think the balanced at rest setup is the easier to work with. 

If we could temorarily store the excess energy when the pendulum is at the bottom of its swing, and return nearly that same amount as it comes back down, WE'LL BE IN BUSINESS!

The power of a device like this comes from the weight on the "hammer" end of the lever interacting with gravity.  All the pendulum does is use its natural potential to kinetic energy cycle to offset the weight of the "hammer".  We need the hammer to go up to come down.  The actual "work" is being done by gravity on the hammer so to restrict anything that gets the hammer back in the air seems counterproductive to this particular setup.  ???  When I said the machine works better under load, it is only on the work cycle...HOWEVER......If we were to use some 1 inch neos (included in the design as "work" weight.) and pump those puppies through some coils on the up and down strokes...I think the inductive coil forces would be negligible to the "reset" cycle and would make use of the back and forth nature of the machine to assist in powering some solenoids.

Make sense?       
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 13, 2006, 08:51:49 AM
Can someone slightly stronger in the electrical field give me an idea on the best way to construct a linear inductive coil / dynamo?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 13, 2006, 08:56:18 AM
konduct,

Thanks! I'm attending 3 different colleges right now in Southern Calif. Trying to get into the nursing program.  I was a software engineer for several years until I got laid off. Studied Electrical Engineering before that at CSUF. 

I caught the free-energy bug after listening to Art Bell radio program talking about the Hamel 3-cone device that imploded. I never was able to replicate any free energy devices since. I'm hoping this pendulum thing might work!

Brian


Hey Brian. Great graphics and input. What school are you attending? 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 13, 2006, 09:09:51 AM
konduct,

What comes to mind is one of those flashlights you shake that charges up a rechargeable battery. Use cylindrical neo magnets in a pvc pipe and wrap 24 guage wire around the pipe. The up and down motion should induce current in the coil. Use caps and full wave bridge rectifier to capture the energy. Some of those key words mentioned could be looked up in the internet for more details I guess. Hope it wasn't too simplistic of an explaination...

Brian

Can someone slightly stronger in the electrical field give me an idea on the best way to construct a linear inductive coil / dynamo?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 13, 2006, 09:59:31 AM
Wow...imploding 3 cone device!  I'm more of a magnet guy so that sounds juicy! 

I was thinking exactly what you did about the shake lights scenario but I need the Eletrical Engineering part!  I'm so dumb with juice that I'm pratically afraid to touch a capacitor out of the box! =) I'm a whiz with gadgets, software, mechanics, website building, yadda yadda yadda... but...What the heck does a "full wave bridge rectifier" do?  I'll try and figure it out...Do you think I could take apart a one of those flashlights and add some caps and or batteries to it for more juice? I like the idea of charging batteries for mere evidence of overunity! One of my main problems is figuring out what components will hold enough juice to power the solenoids.

Thx   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: 2tiger on December 13, 2006, 10:26:38 AM
Hi Konduct

Quote
Can someone slightly stronger in the electrical field give me an idea on the best way to construct a linear inductive coil / dynamo?

Please look back in the thread, I gave you an idea how this could be realize with read/write heads from a harddisk drive.
For a simple experiment it would be enough.

Someone replies that I forgot the springs in my drawing. Yes he is right. Sorry but it was a fast drawing. Of course there have to be springs to create the effect.

And here is one more advantage with the coil-magnet  setup compairing it with the crank-flywheel-setup.
With the coil-magnet setup you will be able to tap out some energy out of the system by driving the load i.e. with a microcontroller, switching resistance on and off.
Remember that the springs have dynamic properties. So if you want to tap some energy out of the system I suggest that you have to stay tuned with this dynamic curve in order to not disturb the motion timing of the system.
With the microcontroller you will be able to tap in the right moment with the right load.
I hope you understand what I am trying to explain.


kr
2Tiger
 

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: corpsegravy on December 13, 2006, 12:39:47 PM
Movement of the pendulum's fulcrum is a potential problem as it might transfer damping energy to the pendulum.

But the addition of the springs is what helps eleviate this.  The springs store energy AND limit motion.  They then return this energy to the lever as an increase in velocity as it moves from up to down or down to up.  Interesting to note that this energy returns to the lever and not the pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 13, 2006, 01:30:54 PM
Corpsegravy is correct.  The springs are what I call an energy "recycler."

Hey Brian!  I now know what a rectifier is!  That helps me skip figuring out how to build a commutator!

To all...Bravo!!!  Per Tiger's suggestion, I have re-read the entire thread and am impressed by our little group here.  We have collectively stirred each other's minds to action and quite frankly, this little machine is so adaptable that there's not much it wouldn't do! =) We could stick coils 7 ways from Sunday!

Tiger Buddy...I just don't know enough about programming controller chips and such to make the thing too complicated electronically but I am sure there will be a time to implement your ideas.

Sam...thanks for the motivation!  I can't bring myself to rip up my only bike right now and I don't have room for any more...BUT...I think once I've got the "little junior" version down...We can go ahead and build the "Big Momma" with lots of weight and 21 Speeds or possibly a torque converter. (I love torque converters...they're starting to use them in Nissan transmissions.) I'm trying to hook a saw blade up and cut a tree in half for a demo of the Big Momma and put that on YouTube! Power! For Free!

Alas, I keep thinking Brian's over all setup seems the most feasible to me for right now.  Simplicity...I have plenty of 1/4" one way ID bearings already on hand...I already have a decent wooden flywheel that I will throw a bunch of neos in and run past a coil.  As long as Brian helps me figure out the caps/wiring/solenoids etc without getting me electrocuted, then we should have a pretty cool little generator to show for our efforts.  I'll buy all the stuff.

Anybody know of some kind of meter like the power company uses to hook up so we could take a running measurement of total power generated over the course of time?  Basically a read out of total watt hours?  It would be cool to say how much juice something like this can put out over certain intervals.

One last question...When you guys mention 90 degrees in reference to the pendulum, do you mean a total swing of 90 degrees, 45 on each side of 6 oclock?  Or 90 to each side adding up to 180? 

Thanks again guys!  I'm truly proud of what everyone has made from the thread...from the start of the golden fish metaphor! We rock!   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 13, 2006, 07:00:36 PM
hey everyone,

i don't know if anyone has taken a look at the milkovic web site in the last few days, but it seems like a whole lot of new downloads of patent information has been added since i first saw it last week.  most of the patents are written in a language that i can't read.  but there are several with english translation for us monolinguists.  great stuff though the pictures alone can really stimulate alot of thought.  even have one with a generator, driving a motor driving the pendulum.  good theory page also that i either missed or has been added since my last visit. 

i am chomping at the bit to get back home so i can get to work on all the ideas i have already.  well i guess i'll be home for christmas, to get my christmas gift.  can't wait.  you guys had better get started.  cause i'm going to come on strong then.

@konduct,
i think with two springs we can get two power strokes,  take a look at the video on milkovic's site, where he powers the eighteen dynamo lights, nine on the downstroke nine on the upstroke.  and he is pushing the pendulum with the trigger of another that doesn't even light up except on the start.

great stuff and ideas to everyone.  lets close the loop!!! i think it is simply a matter of replication at this point but still would be great to see.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 13, 2006, 10:02:10 PM
I'm thinking of using caps.  Batteries seem to make skeptics even more skeptical.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 13, 2006, 11:38:30 PM
hey everyone,

how much power could we generate if we wrapped a coil around the bicycle wheel,  as in brian's design, and then placed fixed permanent magnets at various points around the wheel?  i wonder if the toroidal coil will give us more power?  just my stupid thought of the day stuck out here on the road.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 12:01:57 AM
I am still mentally trying to calculate how many joules of brain power it would take to keep pushing the pendulum at the "correct moment" to account for a 12:1 overunity efficiency.

It is a real conundrum and a great testimony to the abilities of the human mind to be able to observe and interact with the physical universe in such an efficient manor.

Imagine the computing power it would take to observe the swing of the pendulum and interupt it only when the addition of force would be effective in the positive moment.

wow.. "big blue" stand aside .. chess champion you may be, but that !! .. i would love to see happening real time in a mechanical system .. ;)

Good luck guys :D


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 12:08:37 AM
http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/

better chance of this guy beating us all at a game of touch footbal :D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 14, 2006, 12:38:38 AM
hey dean,

i don't think it takes that many joules of brain power.  all you have to do is keep the damn pendulum swinging and the rest of the system takes care of it's self.  maybe you should use some of those joules of yours investigating that!!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 14, 2006, 12:46:11 AM
OMFG ITIFIO! You know guys...I've been thinking about the pendulum's method for multiplying kinetic energy.  It is basically building up inertia as gravity pulls on it until it hits the bottom of it's swing.  It's just like dropping a ball straight down except that it "falls" on an incline because of the "string". Then, it "rolls" back up the "ramp" and recycles the energy back into the next swing.  The swing or "ramp" of the pendulum gives it centrifugal force which is obviously different from linear force. A lot of the centrifugal force is lost if not converted into energy or used...it actually works against the pendulum if it is absorbed back into it since the centrifugal force is about 90 degress from the linear motion.

What I believe to be true is this...
      -A linear magnetic motor is like dropping a ball.
      -A magnetic ramp is like a pendulum swinging into a brick wall.
      -Two magnetic ramps in a linear opposing configuration is like a  pendulum by itself, with losses each swing due to the sticky spot and the lack of recycling the excess energy.  The excess is there but the damn machine eats it back up.
      - NOW...Two magnetic ramps in a opposing circular configuration make use of the cetrifugal forces by using them to slide past the sticky point!  The increasing magnetic field decreases equally on the other side of the sticky spot so the excess energy is more than enough to get to the "top" of the next ramp!  I know this is hard without pictures but comparing the fundementals of Mikovic's device with the Mikell Device at http://www.fdp.nu/mikelldevice/thedevice.asp has led me to these conclusions.  I believe the  Mikell device to be the most "honest in description" compared to other inventors claims.  The kid didn't really even understand why it worked because he just explained how he built it. BUT, I have a feeling his Father and Uncle did know why it works!  

Basically...the "free" energy in a magnet motor will not be directly from the magnets' power, but by the amount of centrifugal power the magnetic differences can generate!  Thanks Sam!  I asked myself, "How can a pendulum and lever get past the sticky spot?"  The magnetic ramps are the pendulum and the rotor is the lever.  

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 14, 2006, 12:50:51 AM
I got an idea for detecting when to push the pendulum...
Don't even need a processor. How about a mercury switches?
Only trigger when the pendulum is in down swing and the lever is up or vice versa...

Good luck apriciated but not needed,
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 14, 2006, 12:55:29 AM
Hey Sam,

That probably wouldn't be the most efficient or easest way of doing it. I would prefer glueing neo magnets on the wheel and then have stationary air core pickup coils around the wheel, with the space between the magnet face and the coil end as close to each other as possible.  In this setup, you don't have to worry about commutating the output of the coils wrapped around the wheel, as you would if the coils were on the wheel.

Here's a setup that might work (I don't think this setup has aircore coils):

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Inventors/JohnBedini/SG/Feb2005/images/Bedini_Feb2005_big_guy.jpg

A toroidal coil would give more power if the magnets were moving inside the toroidal tube. But that would be hard to make.

Brian

hey everyone,

how much power could we generate if we wrapped a coil around the bicycle wheel,  as in brian's design, and then placed fixed permanent magnets at various points around the wheel?  i wonder if the toroidal coil will give us more power?  just my stupid thought of the day stuck out here on the road.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 14, 2006, 01:10:49 AM
@ brian,

great pickup on bedini, i wouldn't have thought of that for a ten dollar bill!  there are afterall ring magnets aren't there.  that sounds great.  with your setup there are lots of ways to go.  have you looked at milkovic's patent idea's? iknow i can't read them but as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 14, 2006, 01:18:53 AM
http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/

better chance of this guy beating us all at a game of touch footbal :D


http://world.honda.com/HDTV/ASIMO/New-ASIMO-run-6kmh/
4 miles per hour is just fast enough to lose me...
(I only run when chased)

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 14, 2006, 02:20:26 AM
hey  dingus,

i think bill mehess, is scheduled to release all his info and demo video on christmas morning.  can you post some pictures or video of the results you have gotten with the bicycle setup?  that would be great!! i still can't understand why it will not work maybe you can enlighten us.  or maybe we can help you to figure out why.  either way bill's idea with winding a spring to keep the pendulum moving may make or break the idea of closing the loop.  however if you take a look at milkovic's patents i think you might find it has already been done.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 14, 2006, 02:32:11 AM
A level mercury switch on the pendulum should be able to make a connection any time it is level... Also you could tie in a secondary switch to make sure the pendulum was only assisted when the lever was at a certain point along its path.

As for the extraction of energy from this set up:
I have made 50+ simulations only 2 of them showed violations of the first law. The only thing those two configurations had in common was the fact that the x plane velocity of the pendulum match that of a control group pendulum. I would suggest every one experiment with two pendulums at all times. One on the lever and the other stationary. If you can get them to match pace and phase only then you have began to scatch the surface of this device. I will try to post more sim data but I would advise others to just start working in WM2D with the two pendulum concept as to demonstrate the kinetic energy gain and the configuration it was found in.

Good luck to all,
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 14, 2006, 02:42:35 AM
Mramos...A SMOT actually seems to work better backwards.  I built a rotary 12 inch smot with sticky spots at 180 degrees from each other and the motor had more torque backwards than forwards.  Each magnet got about 1/8th of an inch farther away from each other.  You can go right past a sticky spot if you are going backwards!  The problem you now have is the "original" smot direction causing drag.  You get more energy in a backwards smot at the beginning as opposed to the end, due to the quick difference in field strength.  Trust me, I will put a video up if needed.  

Folks, I can get my 180 rotary smot to go past the stick spot by at least 120 degrees with no input!  I believe I could get it to go all the way around but I have a big dropoff where the flux of the last few mags gets sucked up into the beginning of the reverse smot.  >:( I think Tom Ferkos 45 degree track demonstrates these principles in a linear way using straight inertia as opposed to centrifugal force.)  I am real close to going ahead and putting together some diagrams and starting a new thread combining all of this knowledge in a simple enough way to actually design a build a working model.  Probably is going to be a 2D Version of the Mikell device if anybody wants a head start on understanding the design.  Actually, I think my "reverse" smot (already built) can be fitted with a slightly different rotor and made to do the same thing.  The beauty is there are several different configurations that will work on the same priciple!

  
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 14, 2006, 02:47:11 AM
Another principle to keep in mind with the Mikovic device is that it is constantly immersed in a field...gravity.  The pendulum "rides" the "polarity" of gravity...With that in mind...I think a working smot will have to constantly remain within a flux field, just surfing the polarity changes and picking up excess energy from each wave.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 14, 2006, 03:40:54 AM
Polite correction...The pendulum swings on a "straight" axis...Its trajectory is a circle. What happens if you swing a pendulum all the way around?  It makes a circle. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: konduct on December 14, 2006, 04:12:38 AM
I'm not trying to breed the smot with the Mikovic Device. What I am saying is the Mikovic priciples will apply to a magnet motor! Using centrifugal force to reset the cycle in a smot.  No pendulums in the magnet motor!  Do you understand what I meant earlier?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 04:18:15 AM
hey dean,

i don't think it takes that many joules of brain power.  all you have to do is keep the damn pendulum swinging and the rest of the system takes care of it's self.  maybe you should use some of those joules of yours investigating that!!!!

lol
sam

thats just what i am saying .. how is it your are going to interact with the pendulum without absorbing back any energy and also impart added energy to it to keep this baby going ..

I honestly think you guys are oversimplifying closing the loop here ...

ok the mercury switch gives you timing but you still need to know the angles, velocities and you need to also retract the the device that has exerted this new momentum (ie it has to be stopped as well as imparting force) .. keep doing your sums ...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 04:21:38 AM
think it through .. just how simple is it to keep the "damn" (subconcious concern) pendulum swining
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 04:41:50 AM
I already tried to explain this before .. now this is very important ..

when he pushes using the single torch the spring transfers the force to his hand without absorbing the energy into the torch (system) the lever dynamo in the torch thereby is not engaged and the little light you guys are all standing in amazement at (lol ...not shining) should not light afterall so no magical 12:1 here .. please move on all...
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 04:47:35 AM
P.S .. I am still trying to work out how to stop people from assuming I am SH .. i was going to say I got a PM from him but that would prove nothing at all .. speaking of damned conundrums :(
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 04:52:21 AM
I agree, I like the smot and the hydrogen cell ideas best at the moment.

Never say Never !!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 14, 2006, 06:16:21 AM
hey dean,

meanwhile back at this site we are discussing, dual mechanical oscillation systems.  maybe you got this site confused with some halfbaked idea that you may have swiped or something.  maybe you should put a little more effort into a vortex motor or something.  it definitely sounds like a more sound place for you to concentrate your efforts or maybe you would rather join daniel back over at kosol's sight again.

lol
sam


ps: can't wait for your smartass retort.  waiting patiently till you finally run out of hot air.  hmm. that gives me a thought for a fool proof overunity device. how can we harness all of your negative hot air?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 06:43:45 AM
i am not being negative .. just rational.

yeah ... its half baked .. and its in the appropriate section.

show me why my idea has got no steam, then we will look into your original idea.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 14, 2006, 06:47:43 AM
swiped ... hmmm ... i wont even bother defending myself on that point .. you can just humbly apologise at some point when you get the courage up again
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alfang on December 14, 2006, 07:17:54 AM
Hi all, love this site, I finally found a bunch of guys who think like me.
One of the first things that came to my mind about this machine. it's like a grandfather clock that never needs the weights pulled back to the top.And it doesn't tell time, yet.
I envision setting a spring mechanism like a ballpoint pen clicker through wire or cable, each time the hammer drops( pendulem straight down). Then when the pendulem swings to either extreme, the spirng release is triggered and it gives the "swing" a little shove.
I dont think you will be able to capture any energy from the pendulem.
It's not gonna take a whole lot of push to keep the pendulem swinging.
I know I'm comming in late, I've spent hours today reading the whole string. And I skipped some, so if someone else already had this thought, sorry.
Make it run nonstop first, then figure out how to harness the energy.

Thanks John
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: corpsegravy on December 14, 2006, 08:53:59 AM
Hammer?  A hammer and anvil are useful tools but waste all the energy if we are looking for overunity.

Better to move a big magnet up and down in a big coil of wire.
Bigger the better maybe.
Remember; the less the lever moves; the less the pivot on the pendulum moves; the less feedback energy to damp the pendulum.

Might not even need any springs to limit motion with a big enough coil and magnet.

To prove over unity, we just need to get more electricity than the input energy.  The input on a free swinging pendulum is still E=mgh, isn't it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sevich on December 14, 2006, 02:39:09 PM
The swinging of the weight gives an amount just short of over unity, but still reaps double to triple the power needed to do stamping in a factory enviroment
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 15, 2006, 09:00:04 AM
HEY SEVICH,

you are right there.  i think, though, if you were able to take a little bit of that stamping energy and put it back into the pendulum then you could have your stamper and run it too.  do you see what i mean?

lol, and happy holidays to all,

sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 15, 2006, 09:57:33 AM
this thing is driving me crazy! closing the loop should not be so hard. i already mentioned before how to do it and now all i need is the parts.
all i need is an electrical motor pendulum, voltage regulator, coils, and some magnets. the voltage regulator will keep the pendulum at a certin speed and excess energy will be outputed elsewhere to a load.

peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 15, 2006, 12:18:01 PM
hey  dingus,
can you post some pictures or video of the results you have gotten with the bicycle setup? 

Not my rig...

 ???

Maybe you should go reread. Also I WAS the one who said I found no sucessful way to couple the lever to a flywheel in a simulation. WM2D has a free demo, go get it! I used a dampener in the simulation that converted the kinetic to watts I posted screen shots a few pages ago, but I have not built a prototype of this device. My time is being devoted to a more apealing project right now.

No moving parts...
Totally scaleable...
On demand endothermic reaction!

 ;)

Everyone is talking anout a hydrogen economy, maybe you should start looking in to more eficient electrolysis.

BTW
Here is a a more visual explanation of my mercury switch idea:
Switch is level when the pendulum is at its starting drop point,
Tiny electro magnet... badda bing badda boom you know?

Hell we could even scrap the mercury switch and add a reed switch behind the EM core.
Then attraction lifts pendulum and a cap discharge pushes it. I hope this makes sence.

Just my 2 cents...

I need sleep,
~Dingus

(click to animate)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 15, 2006, 12:38:26 PM
For those who are wanting to work on this:

WM2D free download:
http://www.design-simulation.com/WM2D/download.php (http://www.design-simulation.com/WM2D/download.php)

My only screen print of something semi-enticing:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=4514)
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=4516)

NOTICE THE PENDULUMS MATCH VELOCITY! (no lost kinetic energy)

Now download it and go test your own configurations of this idea!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 16, 2006, 06:17:48 PM
hey everyone,

has everyone abondend this project, just because dingus said it COULD BE DONE, according to his sims?  what is wrong with this picture? SCARED SAY SCARED.   the sims even show it can be done.  i am not a firm believer in sims, but they are what they are.  and according to this one it can be done.  so where are the experimenters?  just my stupid question for the day. 

i'll be home for christmas, to get my christmas gift!

lol, and happy holidays to all

sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 17, 2006, 01:30:45 AM
Where are your sims and experiments Sam?

Like I had said I only found 2 out of 50+ sims that would show any promise at all. Now go download WM2D and do your own sims and see if you can get a moving pendulum to match or out run a stationary pendulum. Only then is the rig useful...

~Dingus

Mahess super chistmas or just buying time...
We'll see for sure soon.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on December 17, 2006, 08:39:37 AM
For me, it's finals week at school...I'm scared to fail my exam.

I did download the WM2D. What a cool program! Thanks Dingus. Too bad the demo version can't save the work.  I have to start over every time. :( 

I did several scenarios, including one with a 2 N-s/m damper, and a 1.8m lever with the fulcrum 1/3 from the pendulum on the right. The damper and some springs were placed on the left. The amplitude of the oscillations definately were dampened using a damper as expected. I did not turn on real-world friction/air resistence. Without any springs or dampers on the left side of the lever, the oscillations can become erratic if not properly balanced, but oscillations definately continue forever--agreeing with Newton's three laws of motion. To make it oscillate nicely, the working side must be equal or just slightly heavier than the pendulum side.

I haven't figured out how to place the meters to read dynamic forces on the simulation. Maybe it's only available on the full version. I would like to test it on WM2D if the moving pendulum really does produce tension about 3 times the weight of itself at its equilibrium position.

There's definately some promise to this.

I will play with program some more after the finals are done in a couple days, with screenshots.

By the way, I also looked at the Linnard Griffin patent (pdf) on H2 production using the "galvanic" process. I skimmed through the thread also. Looks interesting. Just a few weeks ago, before becoming interested with this pendulum thing, I had just finished playing around with electrolysis using Frank Roberts immersed cells method. I kind of gave up trying to find any resonant frequency because I couldn't find any using the circuit in the D16.pdf document. I did get some cool HHO production with 10 amps running through the cells...

Brian


hey everyone,

has everyone abondend this project, just because dingus said it COULD BE DONE, according to his sims?  what is wrong with this picture? SCARED SAY SCARED.   the sims even show it can be done.  i am not a firm believer in sims, but they are what they are.  and according to this one it can be done.  so where are the experimenters?  just my stupid question for the day. 

i'll be home for christmas, to get my christmas gift!

lol, and happy holidays to all

sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 17, 2006, 10:49:33 AM
@bsrinon

Make sure you have air resistance turned on in the world menu first and foremost. Then to measure anything, select the object to measure then click on the measure menu and select what to measure. Also always use two pendulums that are exact dupes and you will be able to easily measure the fulcrum powering pendulum efficiency. I got a demo here too... I wish I could save and upload these demos for others to play with. I might buy a copy after the holidays are over but right now I'm super stretched... 5 flights in the next 2 weeks. :(

@everyone

The latest simulation I've been tweaking IS exhibiting excess power, but yet again I can not conclude that this is overunity in any way. Though it does at least in my opinion clearly violate the first law of thermodynamics aka conservation of energy. I believe this because I used two identical loaded pendulums to use as baseline comparison units of input energy, and the pendulum powering the fulcrum actually gains energy when compared to the stationary pendulum. Also this rig turned a steel fly wheel in one direction for just over 4 minutes.

If anyone here can truly explain how power is extracted from the fulcrum and power is added to the pendulum they would probably be quite rich already. Hmmm I wonder how one would close the loop though? Tricky business... Gotta hate not linear mechanics!

Screenshots:
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fantasyl on December 17, 2006, 03:28:51 PM
Hi to all! First post here, my name is Roberto.

I'm in no way an engineer or a scientist, but I'm really intrigued by the overunity stuff and I'm trying to put my best effort in it.

Howewer.....using WM2D and my own replication of the original Mikovic scheme I found a machine that is never in equilibrium (at least in the simulation).

I receive the very same internal limit error Mingus is receiving, but the strangest thing is that the rotation on the polygon in my case and with my proportion is increasing!!!

Is this overunity ?

From a near equilibrium point the pendulum and the whole machine starts to move and keeps the same oscillation rate for about twenty minutes, and then the rotation of the fulcrum INCREASE of one (VERY LITTLE) step and remains costant for about 5 minutes, then the program gives me an "internal limit reached" error.....

I start to feel really excited because I heard many times that an overunity machine should "power on" by itself....maybe I'm just a fool, but please help me to make some light.

I attach the images of the simulation and the enlarged graph of the motion of the polygon........please note the increase in rotation is VERY LITTLE, but it's there  :o!

Please don't be rude as I registered on the board, but I feel I'm the most ignorant person around here, probably  :-[

And my work is a slight modified COPY/CLONE of Mikovic, so credit to him!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stonrman401 on December 17, 2006, 04:08:42 PM
Hello all.

Steorn, the company that claims they have working free energy devices, hosted a party in which forum members were invited to.

At the party was a steorn "toy" demonstrating free energy, according to the members.

They have all come together with pictures, and I noticed on a few of them, pendulums are actually part of the device! Do you guys think this is related? Have a look for yourself, Im sure someone here can connect this...

http://www.steorn.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=31741&page=1

Also, apparently steorn (who has said they will stay away from the forum to do work) DELETED a thread and BANNED a member when apparently they got "too close" to figuring it out. Steorn lost a LOT of support when they did this, because it's obvious by now theyre fools drunk and bent on getting money. Though I know I wont buy a damn thing because everyone here will be replicating it soon! Steorn will make pennies, then flop over and their forum will destroy them from the inside out. Theyre making bad moves and really should have just shared with the public a long time ago.

I hope some of you can make sense of these pictures. Im off for now.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 17, 2006, 08:10:50 PM
@fantasyl

#1 Did you turn on air resistance/friction? probably not.
Go to the world menu and select air resistance.

#2 Where is your baseline pendulum? How do you know your moving pendulum hasn't lost energy without a stationary pendulum to compare it to?

Please completely read the posts!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fantasyl on December 17, 2006, 11:26:59 PM
@ Mingus

#1 Ouch....you are right.  :-\ What is the coefficient I should use for "real world" simulation.... 0.100?

#2 In fact I used another approach. I always start with the pendulum not oscillating. If the machine (not the one above.....I did many different attempts/projects) can increase the rate at which the pendulum and the whole polygon rotates on the fulcrum.....this machine would clearly OU. Is this approach also valid?

Now I'm trying to get the work to move the pendulum done by the hammer (as all here), but maybe we should look in depth (as you suggested) the two pendulums project, which should generate harmonics and resonances, could you post or at least suggest the 2 configuration in which the pendulums were violating the 2nd law?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 18, 2006, 01:07:46 AM
I don't think you're understanding the 2 pendulum concept at all. One pendulum is attached to a lever like the patent states. The other pendulum is an exact duplicate of the first but hung stationary and not inertacting in any way with the experiment. The second pendulum has nothing to do with energy or harmonics or any of that theoretical garbage, its sole purpose is to allow you to compare which pendulum runs out of energy first first.

If the pendulum that interacts with nothing but air resistance stops before the pendulum which is also adding energy to the lever then clearly it has gained energy from somewhere and that violates the first law of thermodynamics or conservation of energy, I believe this because the energy added to the system is outweighted by the work returned by the system. You can clearly see this in my sim posts. The pendulum adding energy to the lever actually gains energy in comparison to the stationary pendulum.

Starting with a dead rest pendulum is an interesting concept but there is no energy to capture if it is indeed at a dead rest. The pendulum shouldn't move at all if the lever is balanced RIGHT?I would assume your lever balance is off, but there could be many factors leading to a falling pendulum gathering x velocity.

The DEFAULT air resistance is probably your best bet... Why would you even want to lower the resistance? Want to make your machines run longer or something? Whats the point in turning it on if you're going to lower its overall resistance by two thirds? I use high speed resistance or 0.300 kg/m^2 as it will allow for the most default resistance and makes the sim more realistic to earths air resistance as well. Lowering resistance and friction in your sims discredits us all so please be careful to make sure all sims are sent through a worse case senario when it comes to friction.

I can't save my work yet but the easiest way to under stand my 2 examples posted is to go look at them and attempt simuated replication...

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fantasyl on December 18, 2006, 02:56:35 AM
Yes, I understood the 2nd pendulum was for comparison purposes only!

IMHO If you start trying to be close to the equilibrium as you can, and the pendulum (and polygon, the whole machine!!) increase it's oscillation rate in time, then you have OU.

I start with the with the lever NOT PERFECTLY balanced (as you said). I do this way because I found easier to look at small increment in oscillation rate of the machine.....

Please Mingus to capture my questions as they are.....simply questions! I didn't have the slightest idea of what was the "real world" value....that's all......
Now I putted it to .300 as you said.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 18, 2006, 12:38:04 PM
Sorry the "maybe we should look in depth (as you suggested) the two pendulums project, which should generate harmonics and resonances" line confused me. I had a lot of trouble expessing its purpose and what it measured. So I apoligise if my response was short.

A sugestion: a lever imbalance (in length) can be compensated with added weight (thickness) then you can balance your lever. This is important unless you find a way to make an energy comparison. A duplicate lever in the same starting position could work much in the same way as a dupe pendulum. Try it out if you get a chance but I think you'll find comparing the overall energy output for each lever will be quite difficult since only one lever would operate as a pendulum and the other as a restricted oscilator.

Good luck on your experiments and thanks for your interst in this project.
 ;)

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alfang on December 19, 2006, 05:53:24 AM
Fantasy, I am with you, I am new to the WM2D program, and although I have set air resistances, gravity, friction, I really dont know what the real world values shoud be.
I dont know if I can set the program defaults to real world, so that each time i start a new project , everything is on that should be and values set.
Or, can someone set up and post a WM2D blank with the correct real world values set, so we can save that as a starting page template. dont forget to save as is under another name so as not to lose your Blank template.

Next question,,, I have found This pendulem machine dificult to ballance.
I will figure it out,,,, but if someone already knows the ideal ratio of weights, lengths, fulcrum points etc....please share the formula, I expect theres one ideal formula and that all scale ups or downs will be directly proportional, I hope.

Heres another thing for those that dont know.  a pendulem at a certain weight will travel the same distance per minute reguardless of the length of the pedulem. I'm gonna make up some numbers for explaination purposes.  lets say a 10 pound weight is suspended 12 inches down and is swung, if you could measure the total distance that the weight travels in 1 minutes time.
It would equall the distance traveled by the same weight if it had been hung on a 2 foot pendulem. I cant quote you the scientist who discovered this, probably newton.

And to be honest, this info doesnt do anything for me, except when someone says that their system works so well the pedulem picks up speed, That will NEVER  Happen in a pendulem powered anything. Why do you think they make clocks with them, once the length of the pendulem is determined, the clock keeps perfect time. at least 19th century perfect.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 19, 2006, 06:13:05 AM
well,

maybe, you will want to discover, what   is availeble?  i know as dingus say's i need to make, my own experiments'.  i will!!!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fantasyl on December 20, 2006, 11:11:54 PM
Ok, I set the friction to 0.300 (high speed), and doing my own experiment I tried this setup (which I named TRIPENDULUM  ;D ).

It's indeed a "non linear" motion (you find the speed of the ropes, they sure are NOT decelerating), and the machine in the simulation NEVER stops. After about 30 minutes the program gives an internal error (the same in a dingus post before), but the machine would keep going ;D .

I'm going to realize it for sure, but hope someone could give some advice on why this device should / should not work.

IMHO it's a good idea. In the attach you see two box with springs, not connected with the machine. You can extract energy from the device in multiple ways. First idea came to mind is springs connected to magnets, when the machine is "overloading".
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 20, 2006, 11:57:04 PM
Ok, I set the friction to 0.300 (high speed), and doing my own experiment I tried this setup (which I named TRIPENDULUM  ;D ).

It's indeed a "non linear" motion (you find the speed of the ropes, they sure are NOT decelerating), and the machine in the simulation NEVER stops. After about 30 minutes the program gives an internal error (the same in a dingus post before), but the machine would keep going ;D .

I'm going to realize it for sure, but hope someone could give some advice on why this device should / should not work.

IMHO it's a good idea. In the attach you see two box with springs, not connected with the machine. You can extract energy from the device in multiple ways. First idea came to mind is springs connected to magnets, when the machine is "overloading".


need more details
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 21, 2006, 12:10:12 AM
The velocity measured definitetely shows the system has great trouble finding a point of equilibrium which is exactly what this system is dependent on. Basically the non linear inbalance creates a sort of improbability drive. What I mean is the probality of every component being in the propper alignment to find the equilibrium zone is such a low probability that the device is powered by chaos in a sense.

My only critique is you are not extracting any power from the system with dampeners, and you have no way of proving that your arangement is putting out more kinetic energy the what you put in to the pendulums.

Also what is the pursose of the ancored blocks attached to springs?

Quite an interesting and perplexing new example, and if indeed the pendulums are picking up velocity despite resistance this example may prove to be a big step in the right direction.

Great work and I look forward to hearing more about your tripendulum experiments.
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 21, 2006, 05:47:32 AM
Perpetual Motion Pendulum

http://www.supyo.com/home/artworks/saic/perpertual_pendulum/pendulum.htm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fantasyl on December 21, 2006, 09:05:04 AM
Perpetual Motion Pendulum
http://www.supyo.com/home/artworks/saic/perpertual_pendulum/pendulum.htm

Ehm.......but it's electricity driven  :'( ; became interesting if the energy for the solenoid could be supplied from a milkovic setup (hammer).

What other details should I write?

The setup is soooooooo simple!! I will try to realize it.......but if someone is faster please confirm or deny the simulation data, and everyone we'll have some free energy soon  ;D

Please keep in mind that the weight of the 2 pendulum vs the lever weight (and the rope lenght) is really important to achieve the non linear oscillations.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fantasyl on December 21, 2006, 09:05:16 AM
Double post....sorry, but was receing the DB error.....ARRGGHH  ::)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 21, 2006, 09:19:31 AM
Ehm.......but it's electricity driven  Cry ; became interesting if the energy for the solenoid could be supplied from a milkovic setup (hammer).

that is what i meant ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 21, 2006, 09:20:16 AM
Database Error: User 'hartiberlin1' has exceeded the 'max_updates' resource (current value: 30000)
File: /mounted-storage/home4/sub002/sc11940-GNVW/overunity/Sources/Subs.php
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Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 22, 2006, 10:28:44 PM
Earl has a good points on this...check out the link below. he says the pendulum should be aerodynamic shaped and that the ball bearing(s) should be magnetic bearing for best results (near zero friction).

he also thinks this system won't work in a purely mechanical way and that we should apply electromagnetic coil(s). still i think we should try both ways and any other way possible. there is more details so check the link out below.

peace

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Milkovic_Two-Stage_Mechanical_Oscillator
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fantasyl on December 23, 2006, 01:35:52 AM
Could someone suggest me a good simulation program to verify my results? Better if it's available in free trial.

I attached two spring with light tension (5kgf/m)at the lever edges, the power of only one of them (in W) is the first graph on the left, so this machine is able to put some work out while the pendulums keeps oscillating....

Tensions on the ropes would be very high.....mhhhhh.

Howewer today I bought all the needed stuff to build and verify my setup.......so soon we'll know IF and HOW the strange simulations data reflects the real world.....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 23, 2006, 07:46:30 AM
I don't have enough info to replicate your starting position... Is the sim still open? If you could please describe the starting postion and component dementions, I would like to replicate your results. The graphs are really exciting to see! I hope you had air restance turned on... You do have to turn it on each time you start a new project. Also the springs don't extract that much energy, but if you replaced them with dampeners then you could more readily extract energy from the system. If you get similar results while extracting energy then I would try physical replication. My attempts to replicate your results yeilded a sim that would self oscillate, but its a glitch not sponstanious energy... Fun to watch though, the balls bounce up and down and spin on their own.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 23, 2006, 12:03:57 PM
check this out. i leave the system at equilibrium state and still the massive lever starts to pick up speed. and yes the air resistance is set to high. is it because of the horizontal track?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 23, 2006, 01:38:08 PM
am i doing something wrong? or is it the software?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on December 23, 2006, 03:59:34 PM
Hower asked me to post this:

Hello again.

Topic related to Milkovic's oscillator:

I also found this link was not functionally well

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv

here is the alternative link for the video link on pages 1 and 3 (add it under the previous)

http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv

I found on Milkovic's website the translation of dynamo flashlight analysis.

Put it on page 2 and inform the others about this news.
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_of_the_dynamo_lamp.pdf

Best regards.

Hower
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pese on December 23, 2006, 10:11:02 PM
http://www.ecosustainablevillage.com/pendolum_pump.htm

@ All
Nice Christmas !

Pese
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fantasyl on December 24, 2006, 04:27:50 PM
If you could please describe the starting postion and component dementions, I would like to replicate your results. The graphs are really exciting to see! I hope you had air restance turned on...

Air resistance was set to High Speed, I put a value of 0.500 just to test if the real matter for this device to work was air resistance and friction, but nothing changed (in the way the machine was self sustaining).
I'll give you the latest data I'm working on for the REAL test.

Lever = 1 metres
Fulcrum = center (0.50m) seems the best bet.

2 Lateral Pendulums data: weight = 4kg each; rope lenght (center of disc to lever)= 18cm ; Disc Diameter = 12cm

Rope connected to fulcrum at the lever's centre = have yet to experiment, best results SEEM obtained whit shorter lenght  = 7 cm

My attempts to replicate your results yeilded a sim that would self oscillate, but its a glitch not sponstanious energy... Fun to watch though, the balls bounce up and down and spin on their own.

Yes, I know the effect, fun to watch.....to avoid excess of energy from the lever, you can just connect the sides of the lever to 2 dampeners, but you have to connect the dampeners in a way they will be "active" only when the lever reach a certaing degrees in rotation, and not before, otherwise the machine will not self sustain.

Please beg my english, I'm trying to do my best.

I tryed to realize a real world experiment with the TRIPENDULUM setup, but the steel lever I have seems too weak (!!!) and not adequate. I stopped the making as soon I realized the two lateral pendulum would have braken the lever after few oscillations.

PS If you try the real test be careful with the ropes.....in the simulation I measured very very high tension......
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ring_theory on December 24, 2006, 05:21:10 PM
I would suggest transfering the kinetic energy from the striking end
of the lever to a fly wheel then you can add magnets and coils to it.

I'm attaching an animated version of my idea.
It's not to scale and I left out the connecting rods. (tired)

The problem is friction. when you start adding yet more moving mass to the system your dragging down the total entropy of the system. It would be much more efficient to magnetize the swinging mass and induce voltage swinging by induction coils.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 24, 2006, 10:13:05 PM
I would suggest transfering the kinetic energy from the striking end
of the lever to a fly wheel then you can add magnets and coils to it.

I'm attaching an animated version of my idea.
It's not to scale and I left out the connecting rods. (tired)

The problem is friction. when you start adding yet more moving mass to the system your dragging down the total entropy of the system. It would be much more efficient to magnetize the swinging mass and induce voltage swinging by induction coils.

yes the massive lever's energy needs to be put back into the pendulum as direct as possible for best results.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: btester1 on December 26, 2006, 07:27:21 AM
http://www.callowayengines.com/
Has some information on pendulum gravity wheels.

Also off topic.
 :o
http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10168
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: CoquiDave on December 27, 2006, 08:27:10 AM
Hi Folks,

Not an engineer or physicist, but just a guy who's good at jury rigging stuff...

I've seen folks in the thread trying to figure out the timing to push the pendulum.  What about a simple light source, (LED,) and receptor trigger that the bar on the pendulum would break, which would trigger an electromagnet to repel a fixed magnet on the pendulum as it passed the bottom of it's arc?  It'd give a little push twice per cycle.

Don't know how you'd generate the power for the electromagnet, but am thinking a link that drives a wheel, (like on a steam engine drive wheel,) that would be geared to run a generator with a capacitor to store the power until trigger time.

For whatever it's worth...

Dave
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nwman on December 27, 2006, 09:54:02 AM
One question I would have about using the whole electromagnet idea to push/pull is how efficient is an electromagnet?

Tim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hallo on December 27, 2006, 09:39:54 PM
@konduct,


what happened with your rebuild machine ?

Does it work overunity ?
Thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 28, 2006, 04:12:07 AM
try it this way guys...login to see picture

it is hard to find the center point of equilibrium between the lever and the pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: a19grey on December 28, 2006, 04:24:39 AM
Umm.... this is painful to watch. This isn't even close to being over unity.  The key here is to recognize the difference between force and energy.  At one point he shows how with one hand he can easily keep the pendulum going but his assistant can?t stop the machine with BOTH hands.  This is because the pendulum moves over a very large distance (the length of the arc) whereas the hammer moves over a very small distance.  Thus, the force-per-distance is different, but the energy is not. His machine performs essentially the same function of a pulley system. I hope this site can help explain this.
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/blocks.html

Also,  this explains the flashlight scene.  He pushes lightly on the flashlight next to the pendulum (for a longer distance) while on the other end the hammer pushes hard (for a short distance/time) on the other flashlight.  One shouldn?t be surprised that pushing lightly for a long time doesn?t have the same effect on something as pushing hard for a short time (rest your hand against a wall for an hour, then punch it to see the difference) but this doesn?t mean more energy is going in than coming out. The first flashlight doesn?t light up enough for us to see it or it doesn?t light up at all because of the flashlight?s own inefficiency?s. This does not show that it is an over-unity device.

Also, it should be noted that the diagram showing the forces on the pendulum is wrong.  The force due to gravity does not change as the pendulum goes through its swing as indicated.  The force from gravity is constant (neglecting, of course, the fact that gravitational force decreases with the square of the distance, since the distances involved are so small as to be negligible). 

This is not an over unity device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 28, 2006, 07:07:26 AM
For those who are wanting to work on this:

WM2D free download:
http://www.design-simulation.com/WM2D/download.php (http://www.design-simulation.com/WM2D/download.php)

something semi-enticing:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=4514)
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=4516)

NOTICE THE PENDULUMS MATCH VELOCITY! (no lost kinetic energy)

Now download it and go test your own configurations of this idea!

First off this is just a simulation so I understand that will be the first argument you'll fall back on, but it is important to acknowlegde that energy is being extracted from the lever and it removes no kinetic energy from the pendulum. Roll that arround in your head for a moment, and I mean really think about the physical forces acting on the two masses. Now there are three things too understand about my method of replication. First the lever is balanced, second the weights on each end are balanced when in full rest, third there is an exact duplicate pendulum running independant from the device to act as a baseline guide to examine transfer of kinetic energy to the lever thus slowing the pendulum.

So then the question is why would the lateral exesion of gravity on a unbalanced lever cause a pendulum to lose any energy... If you think about it, you should come to the conclution I did which is: there is no reason for any kinetic energy to be taken from the pendulum from any force but wind resistance and gravity provided the lever and pendulum are in a similar phase. Yet excitingly enough it does not remove the fact that the lever gains its own kinetic energy. Do you see where I'm going with this? The element that gives the lever its kinetic energy does not lose any extra kinetic energy of its own... No transfer of kinetic energy...

I will say this; I can not in anyway say this device is overunity, but I believe deeply that this is an example of a first law violation. If this idea was propperly nurtured and worked on by group of dedicated and inginuitive individuals this could be proven and perhaps even matured to an overunity status, but very few people know enough about the device and its operation to "know" anything for sure. I would venture to guess that you are not one of those few.

These technologies can never be developed if nay sayers dismiss them without doing their own extensive research. Since that was your first post I can only assume this is the first time you've even read this thread (did you also read the full patent and test logs?), and that you've done no actual research of your own (physical or simulation experiments). That an uneducated opinion. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but with all due respect it is the truth of the matter. If my assumption that this was the first time you've read anything about this device is wrong I applogise but thats usually the story.

~Dingus Mungus

P.S. If you would like share evidence or an experiment that would prove my hypothysis of a first law violation false I would be quite intriged to hear more.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on December 28, 2006, 07:12:32 AM
check this out. i leave the system at equilibrium state and still the massive lever starts to pick up speed. and yes the air resistance is set to high. is it because of the horizontal track?

Did you use a duped pendulum to ensure that energy wasn't taken from the drop pendulum?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 28, 2006, 07:25:55 AM
check this out. i leave the system at equilibrium state and still the massive lever starts to pick up speed. and yes the air resistance is set to high. is it because of the horizontal track?

Did you use a duped pendulum to ensure that energy wasn't taken from the drop pendulum?

i don't remember and i could not save my work.

peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: a19grey on December 28, 2006, 10:16:32 AM
Ok, Mungus, first, thanks for the chance to think about this. Also,  I wasn?t sure what you had meant by ?exesion? but I hate it when people complain about spelling or grammar mistakes instead of paying attention to the issue, so I?ve assumed you meant ?lateral expression of gravity.?

The motion of the lever does rob the pendulum of kinetic energy.  First, what causes the lever to lift up? Well, it?s an unbalanced lever so naturally it tends to fall with the right side (hammer-side) down and the left side (pendulum side) up. In other words, when there is no motion, there is a greater net downward force on the hammer side than on the pendulum side.   The hammer raises when the pendulum is in motion.  More specifically, it raises when the pendulum is on it?s downswing since this is when the pendulum is pulling downward the strongest (to prove this to yourself just hold out a pendulum on your arm, in my case I used my laptop charger).  So, what overcomes the net downward force on the right-side (hammer) is the increased downward force on the left side from the pendulum?s motion.  As the hammer swings up, the left side of the lever swings down which causes the entire motion of the pendulum to be shifted downward by this amount.  So, the falling of the pendulum causes the raising of the hammer, i.e. the pendulum loses gravitational potential energy and the hammer gains gravitational potential energy.  The pendulum then swings through the bottom of its swing and begins to swing upward; as it does this, the total downward force on the left side (from the pendulum) decreases, and the hammer falls. As the hammer falls it loses gravitational potential energy and the pendulum shifts upward- gaining gravitational potential energy.  The question now is, what happens as the hammer falls again.  Assuming we don?t care about doing any work, we put a perfect spring (one that does not lose energy to heat and obeys hooke?s law exactly)  under the hammer.  Now, with the spring in place, as the hammer falls, it gets bounced back up to the exact same height it started from. Assuming we have the spring so designed that the time it takes the hammer to bounce back up to its starting height is the same time as it takes the pendulum to go from the highest point (and lowest force) in its motion to the lowest point (highest force).  So, the hammer will be back at the top of its swing when the pendulum is pushing down the hardest and thus the hammer will raise up to a new height and fall back down to the spring with even more energy.  Every time the hammer raises higher, the pendulum falls down farther, an exact exchange of gravitational potential energy, until either the pendulum hits the floor or the hammer swings past 90o inclination.  So, the only way to make the hammer go up higher (and thus fall down with more energy) is to raise it up higher and the only way to do that is to make the pendulum?s motion shift downward.  Nothing special here; again, just a modified pulley system.

However, there is kinetic energy transfer between the two systems, the hammer and the pendulum.  Imagine a pendulum attached to a rod about which it is rotating without loss to any frictions.  If the rod is raised or lowered while the pendulum is in motion, the pendulum will continue rotating in the same way (same frequency and amplitude) just shifted up or down with the rod. In other words, the shift in the rod?s height doesn?t affect the kinetic energy of the pendulum attached to it.  The obvious case of this is if we have a motionless pendulum pointed straight downward and we move the rod up and down.  The pendulum bob won?t start to swing back and forth, it?ll just move up and down with the rod and string we?ve attached it to.
Now imagine the hammer; the only way the hammer can have useful energy (in this example) is from its kinetic energy. The only way (in this example) for the hammer to get that kinetic energy is to fall a certain distance.  The greater the distance, the higher the change in potential energy, the greater the kinetic energy. So, imagine the hammer/lever with the pendulum attached, but motionless, in its rest position (pointed straight downward).  If we raise and lower the hammer (with our hands, or whatever) the pendulum will begin to swing. Why?  The pendulum didn?t begin to swing earlier when I imagined it being raised up and down, but now the pendulum is swinging. This seems contradictory, but the difference is that the left end of the lever isn?t moving ?straight? but is rather following a slightly curved path since it is, of course, rotating about the fixed point in the middle. 
Therefore, if the hammer starts to do useful work (instead of hitting our perfect, perfectly timed spring form earlier) it will have to slow down (e.g. from hitting a flywheel or being in the presence of a magnetic drive, etc.).  Since now the hammer is slowing down it won?t be perfectly in sync with the motion of the pendulum and so there will be times when the hammer is falling and the pendulum is falling downward and to the right (or counterclockwise if that?s easier to keep straight;  in this part the direction of the pendulum?s falling is important).  The hammer falling downward causes the left end of the lever to raise (or rotate clockwise), but the pendulum is now rotating counter-clockwise and will thus be slowed since they are moving in opposite directions.  So, the hammer doing work, causes it to be out of sink with the pendulum and thus it ?robs? energy from the pendulum and causes it to slow down.

Also, I did look at some of the website?s data figures.  The first one:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement1.JPG

where he actually reports the sensational over-unity gain of 11.9% is a flawed experiment because he is measuring, again, force differences, not energy distances.  Without going into the details because this post is already the longest on this thread, I?ll note that the first key to realizing this confusion between force/energy is that the reported over-unity amount is exactly the same as the ratio between the two forces listed in 1) and 2) at the top of the image.

And yes, that was my first post and I apologize for any perceived flippancy.  I hope this helps and I?ll be happy to answer the questions that I?m sure will follow.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on December 29, 2006, 07:50:04 PM
@ a19grey
Your rationalization of the pendulum system is quite good and very conventional, but incorrect.
Here is why, you have delegated all working forces to the bottom of the pendulum stroke where gravitational forces and centrifugal forces combine, what if 99% of the pendulum stroke was conservative and did no work in the system? what then?
We know all about pendulums don't we? We know and can predict what a pendulum will do when attached to a lever, any grade school student can do this- nothing new here.
The question you have not asked is what happens when all accelerations on the pendulum have stopped at the top of each stroke? The system does not produce work from the forces developed during 99% of the pendulum swing, but from a very small window when a mass (pendulum)becomes massless in the system.
As well most everyone has assumed the hammer side must move a substantial amount of distance, what if the hammer side moved only 1/8 inch, and only when the pendulum became massless in the system during 1% of it's stoke.
If you really want to understand this concept stop asking how this relates to known systems? and start asking how it is different.
And why, like wesley Gary, did it take Milkovic years to perfect a seemingly simple machine, which you have supposedly mastered in one afternoon?
Let's apply some more logic here, which is more likely?
-That Milkovic has worked years and has multiple patents on a technology that you and anyone can disprove in a matter of hours.
OR - you have missed something.
This put's things in perspective I think
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 29, 2006, 08:00:56 PM
hey grey,

have you taken into consideration the whip action of the lever moving up and down?  apparently not!  if that action is not enough for you to get to the most efficient machine you have ever seen then hang another pendulum off the bottom of the first pendulum and see what happens.  i bet you get her a swinging then.  i think you must be out of your mind with math if you can't see it then.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 29, 2006, 09:36:15 PM
hey grey,

ask an astronaunt, gravity doesn't work with standard mathmatics!! just try it and see, the light!!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on December 29, 2006, 10:54:04 PM
hmmm!

what do you think about that tri occilator now?  whappaw!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: a19grey on December 29, 2006, 11:58:20 PM
@allcanadian
Yes, I did make an oversimplification by only referring to the pendulum when it was at the bottom of its swing. However, this does not invalidate what I?ve said.  Any time the downward force from the pendulum is greater than the net downward force on the right (hammer side) the hammer moves up.  This would happen for some range of the pendulum?s swing around the bottom point.  The hammer falls whenever the pendulum is outside this range because the downward force from the pendulum is less than the downward force from the hammer side.  Without knowing the exact weights, lengths, and speed of the pendulum in the example, this range of angles can?t be determined exactly.

So, the hammer moves for more than 1% of the stroke. It accelerates any time there is a net force on the right side which happens at all times except for the instant that the force from the pendulum exactly cancels the force from the right side of the lever/hammer.  Therefore, the pendulum does work (through the raising and lowering of the hammer) throughout its motion.  Of course, the net difference in the work is 0 since when the hammer is raising, the pendulum does positive work, and when the hammer is lowering the pendulum does negative work.  This isn?t conservative work though since there is (as always) that damned friction at play.       

Also, at the top of its swing, the pendulum DOES have accelerations on it.  In fact, the acceleration on the pendulum is greatest at the top of its swing, and least at the bottom of it?s swing.  This is because the acceleration on the pendulum is the difference between the z-component (straight up and down direction) of the centripetal force and the force of gravity.  When the pendulum is at the top of it?s swing, the centripetal force is the most out-of-line with the directly downward force of gravity and thus there is the highest acceleration at this point.  The reason the pendulum seems to ?hang? there as if it were massless is that at the top of its swing, for exactly an instant, the pendulum has zero velocity.  If, in fact, at the top of it?s swing there was no acceleration (and it?s clear since it changes direction that it has no velocity at this point) then the pendulum would hang at that point forever.  It would have no velocity, nor any acceleration, therefore it wouldn?t move.

Also, in my first post I made the point that the key to understanding this system is that the hammer does move such a short distance compared to the distance over which the pendulum moves.

@supersam
Please excuse me, but I?m afraid I don?t understand what exactly you mean by the ?whip action? of the lever.  That said, I would admit that this is an extremely efficient and possibly useful machine. I just don?t believe it is overunity.
Also, I?m not sure what you mean by the statement that gravity does not work with standard mathematics.  One, I would note that standard mathematics was sufficient to get the astronauts into space. Secondly, note that I didn?t actually use any mathematics, standard or otherwise, in any of my explanations of this system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on December 30, 2006, 02:27:22 AM
@ a19grey
Your arguement is true that gravitational acceleration is maximum at the top of the swing, but when the pendulum stops it falls into the realm of freefalling bodies, relative to the point of rotation and the z axis the pedulum has no mass and no acceleration relative to the system(the point of rotation). When the hammer falls the point of rotation of the pedulum moves upward with the pendulum so there is zero relative velocity between the two, hence no interaction. Supersam was refering to the fact that if the point of rotation was rising faster than the pendulum there is a swing effect, imagine yourself on a swing and just past the bottom someone pulled the point of rotation upward, the swing accelerates upward -because of the interaction.
In any case there has been absolutely no research done on this subject, Duel oscillator pendulum systems, I have checked. The closest papers I could find stated the complexities involved would require a supercomputer to analyse. So anyone stating this is impossible is basing it on opinion only, which we know rarely resembles reality. I can't get around the fact that hundreds of man hours and thousands of dollars have been spent by Milkovik on patents and machinery- for a hoax? That everyone seems so willing to disprove without facts? I find it a little hard to swallow personally, so I will assume there may be something here, remember at one point the world was flat and then it wasn't.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: a19grey on December 30, 2006, 02:56:26 AM
Hey, I hadn't realized we were using other reference frames.  I'll give a real response later, but the whole thing has reminded me of this comic which I find incredibly funny.

http://xkcd.com/c123.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nwman on December 30, 2006, 03:50:12 AM
@allcanadian

 I agree. By best guess if this isn't an OU device is that it is simply a form of pulley. However, its complexity is more then I can calculate/visualize in my head. With so many parts moving inside of parts it makes it vary difficult for a novice like myself to analyze the machine in with a vector diagram. One thing the bugs me about it though is there hasn't been any conclusive tests that show power input to power output. Given the timing that needed in the device I see how it would be hard to test. I still haven't thought of an idea that would really test the power yet. Keep thinking!

Tim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: corpsegravy on December 30, 2006, 08:33:02 AM
The really interesting aspect of this machine is that it operates more efficiently the more it's loaded rather than less.  Damping effects arent transmitted to the pendulum.  If anything they make it run longer.

If you only saw the example of the machine being used as a hammer, you saw the most inefficient application.  Nearly all the energy is just absorbed by the anvil.

The rotational/tortional pendulum action of the lever has a period that can be tuned to the period of the swinging pendulum to allow the system to reinforce itself and run longer.

I'm still curious how much DC electricity can be rectified if a bar magnet is hung from the lever and allowed to bob up and down in a coil of wire.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on December 30, 2006, 01:14:35 PM
what if we set a pendulum swinging in vacuum?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nwman on December 30, 2006, 11:15:15 PM
Questions I have that I was wondering if someone can answer? They are simple and stupid but I just want to ask.

Whats more efficient at converting mechanical energy to electrical energy? A standard generator motor or the induction field thing with a magnet passing through coiled wire?

Whats more efficient at turning electrical energy  into mechanical energy? A electric motor or say a electromagnet (push / pull)?


Tim

P.S. I am interested in this design. I'm not convinced it works yet but I'm also not convinced that is doesn't. I am looking at possibly getting a few dollars in research grant money to study alternative energy sources and I might be interested in funding a professional study of this. It seems Milkovic has patented a lot of stuff which if it works makes it hard for any money to be made off of it for anyone else. I would hate to fund the development and then have him take all the rights. However that is my second objective. I know the U.S. will not approve a patent of a PMM unless there is a working model. From what I know they don't have any patents for PMMs yet. So long story short I hope I get this money as soon as late Jan 07.

Check out this link on Generators to motor setups (video at bottom of page). This one is only a 60% efficient but with better quality motors it could be around 90%.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/genmot.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/genmot.html)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 31, 2006, 06:47:54 PM
Hi there, this is my first post, and I have followed this thred with interest. I am no mathematician, but I am a practical man and an engineer by trade. I feel this device MAY be overunity. Some of Milkoviks demos are to me unconvincing, because he seems not to take into account Work=force times distance. there is no obvious measurement of distance. If we are to close the loop, I think we can forget electrical feedback systems. You would be lucky to acheive more than 20 or 30 per cent efficiency overall. The problems of closing the loop, are problems of phasing.The out-put pulse of the lever occurs at the wrong time to feed back immediately to the pendulum. We nead to harvest and store this pulse, by compressing a spring , a bit like loading a popgun. the gun/spring is then triggered just as the pendulum begins its downward swing. I have designed a system on paper. Hope to build it in the new year as work allows.
                Among Milkoviks patents is a patent, with diagram, entitled " Mechanical Toy with pendulum and 3 oscillating levers".This looks to me like an attempt at a perpetual motion Machine. Why was it given this title? Was it perhaps because patents for perpeyual motion machines are not permitted? No one else seems to have noticed this. Someone asked about the relative efficiencies of electric motors versus electromagnets. I would say the electric motor would win, but doesnot lend itself to this job. I beleive purely mechanical is the way to go.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: a19grey on January 02, 2007, 02:14:59 AM
Well, if this machine really achieves an overunity ratio of 1 to 12 then an electrical feedback system with only 20% efficiency would still be sufficient to prove the device was over unity because 0.2 * 12 = 2.4 > 1.  However, to save everyone some time, I would point out that the only indications that we have of this device being over-unity are a video with demonstrations in which the inventor clearly confuses work done with force exerted. Also, in the calculation for the coefficient of work input to output
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement1.JPG
he seems to have made the same error since his calculated coefficient is exactly equal to the ratio of the forces necessary to push down the two plungers.  This may just be a coincidence, but since he doesn't explain his experimental procedures one can't be sure.   In the following experimental results pages,
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/MerenjaEng.html  Milkovik makes the force/energy mistake again. 
As an example, in this experiment where  he compares the deformation of two sponge cylinders - http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement4.JPG
The deformation of objects is not linearly dependent upon the force exerted upon them.  For example, tap your finger on your table for two or three hours,  then hit it with a hammer.  The deformation of your table (unless you have a really good metal table) will clearly not be related to the net force, or even the net energy expended upon the table top, but is instead related to the energy per second (power) delivered to the table.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gaby de wilde on January 02, 2007, 07:24:55 PM
the only indications that we have of this device being over-unity are a video with demonstrations.

I still have my common sense. The inventor did everything he should have done. People ask "why didn't he close the loop", makes me giggle, it's as-if they cant tie a knot? Building a pendulum isn't exactly rocket science?? Where did your replication fail? Do you have a video of your device? I just cant applaud welcoming innovation with "puh, it's probably nothing".

After building a few pendulums I find it incredibly hard to debunk his theory. Don't think I'm not trying. You say "safe your time", but for what exactly? I cant think of anything more exiting as this. ha-ha ;D

Quote
The deformation of objects is not linearly dependent upon the force exerted upon them.

It still makes it very easy to see the difference.

http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv

The hand lights light up 4 times for every push. The push is short and not strong enough to light the torch. On the other hand we have 18 torches burning 4 times.

I'm convinced if he hooks up a volt meter people will find new excuses. :'(

I think the trick is to not-believe anyone and measure it yourself. Of that I am convinced.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 02, 2007, 09:17:25 PM
Hi there, still surprised no one commented on Milkovic Patent entitled Mechanical toy etc, see my last post. I found the torch demo fairly convincing, but not 100 per cent. Any future progress will probably be acheived by practical rather than theoretical effort. Being self employed, I have little time to spend personally, But members of our gang are working on two machines. Both machines at this stage consist just of pivoted beams and pendulums, all on ball bearings. Experiments are ongoing,  but it would seem that for the effect to be pronounced, a pendulum weight of at least 28 pounds[say 12 kilo] is preferable. The attraction of an electrical feedback system is its ease of controll using standard components, despite its low efficiency. Higher efficency is acheivable using a mechanical system, but this demans tools like a lathe, welder etc, and the skills ofa model engineer or clockmaker. There seems little info on optimum design of the basic machine, dimensions, weights etc. Assuming overunity is possible, it will take a high degree of skill and persistance to acheive it.Heres Hoping...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: arbus on January 03, 2007, 02:55:38 AM
Hi, i am not a scientist. Just an engineer. I was reading the posts here and decided to try this experiment.
Here's what i found.
The oscilation effect caused by the pendulum is caused by the weight of the pendulum bending the spring(in the simple example).  This energy is transfered from the pendulum to the spring.
This is similar to when you are on a swing. You move your legs out and in and the energy is transfred to the swing.(ok its reverse, but same principle. Your legs are oscilating)

If you make a simple pendulum on a spring wire you can oscilate the wire and make the pendulum go back and forth. ie reverse the process using the energy of the oscilation and the stored energy of the spring.

The trick in the viedos where he is banging the hammer is that he has a BIG HEAVY pendulum and the energy is being stored in the pendulum stroke and cracked down using energy transferance.  He is putting in alot of energy to push the pendulum as it is losing energy fast!

Think of it this way. 1 person can push a car and if that car hits you even slowly it can crush you. But if the person was simply pushing you directly you wouldnt be hurt.

with a heavy pendulum you could bruise your finger near the high point of travel if you got it stuck between the pendulum and something hard.

The picture of the poor Africans pushing a pendulum to pump water isnt new. THe energy is being stored and released. The pushing of the pendulum takes lots of energy!

If you put 2 identical pendulums next to each other, one swinging on a spring the one on the spring will stop first, because it is using energy to oscilate. If you exert oposite force on the spring the pendulum will stop quicker.

A pendulum is very efficent but you cant get more energy  from it then you put in.

Think of this.  In a clock wound by  a spring, you can swing a pendulum for days or weeks.  The clock has lots of moving parts but sooner or later the pendulum must stop.

The claim of 12 times the energy is absolute garbage. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sevich on January 03, 2007, 03:57:42 AM
It really should read:

"when using Milkovic's mechanical device to pump water, the involved individual will save 12 times his/her sweat"

He's confusing the "pressure energy" of a womans high heals being sufficiant to raise her off the ground!


Nevertheles Milkovic should be congradulated for his discovery of "gravity assist" in todays mechanics.




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 03, 2007, 08:01:17 AM
"He's confusing the "pressure energy" of a womans high heals being sufficiant to raise her off the ground!"

is the woman at a current momentum like the pendulum? or is she at a dead stop?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bsrinon on January 03, 2007, 09:01:09 AM
I think the key to Milkovic's system is mechanical RESONANCE.  Tesla was obsessed with both mechanical and electrical resonance and was successful in creating excess energy using the resonance principle.  I think most of you have seen the video of the bridge that collapsed because it didn't have proper damping. The cause of its collapse was due to wind that resonated with the bridge! By using resonant frequencies you can split water with very little energy, like what Stan Meyer did.

Here's a link showing a string moving a giant column pendulum using resonance:
http://www.exploratorium.edu/cmp/exhibits/r/resonant_pend.html

It looks like by resonating with the giant pendulum, one can build up a huge potential and kinetic energy by just using little force x distance.

Brian

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pese on January 03, 2007, 06:17:13 PM
Even some more links tha shown WAVES and his forces,  Even better to understand when they came in resonance als with here harmanic waves....

Copies 1:1 from my collection (with remaks)
-------------------------

27.12.06
http://www.geocities.com/rolfguthmann/index.html
http://www.zayra.de/soulcom/physicsofphi/PhysicsofPHI.html  phsik
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/superposition/superposition.html  wellen erkl?rt
http://www.glafreniere.com/matter.htm  wellen erkl?rt
http://www.glafreniere.com/sa_electron.htm
The Electron
It can also be considered as one half of an electron. ... Mr. Milo Wolff's static electron and its full lambda core, according to the ...
www.glafreniere.com/sa_electron.htm

das zeigt ganz klar , dass wenn wellen (bei dir 3 ! , nicht in harmonie laufen,
FEHL-LEISTUNGEN (Schatten) haben !!

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: a19grey on January 03, 2007, 10:08:22 PM
@gaby de wilde
I?m going to have to agree with arbus on this one.  When I said that ?we shouldn?t waste our time? I meant that we should move on to other possible OU devices.  I?m as excited by this stuff as anyone else, it?s just that it?s clear to me that this particular device, while novel and interesting, is not an OU device. 

However, there is a way to show the actual power input-output.  It would require buying some equipment (and owning a computer)  but it should absolutely answer the question.  Take two dynamos and hook each one up to a voltmeter and an ammeter.  Now, they have voltmeter-ammeters that will go to a hub then through a USB port to plot the values directly on screen.  So, since Voltage * I (current) = Energy take one dynamo and place it under the hammer and take another dynamo and simply hold it to push the pendulum back and forth (like in the flashlight examples).  Set the computer up to plot V*I for both dynamo setups and then take the integral of the two curves. If the integral of the energy expended is 12 times the integral of the energy put in, then the matter has truly been shown.  The thing to be careful of (and why the example with multiple flashlights is flawed)
http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv

is to make sure that one doesn?t push so hard that the dynamo stops producing any voltage/current since the end of its range of motion has been reached.  If you look at Milkovic?s hand when performing the example above you will note that indeed the flashlight that he is using to push the pendulum DOES indeed light up, but only for a moment.  You can?t see the flashlight lighting up but really need to look at the light on his hand because flashlights are designed to shine light mostly straight ahead and the camera is at an angle to the direction the flashlight is pointing.  If you also note, the flashlight stops shinning BEFORE Milkovic stops pushing on the pendulum. This is because the handle of the dynamo/flashlight can move only so far and he pushes the handle all the way in and once the handle is all the way in you can use the flashlight to push the pendulum and do work without it lighting up which is the problem that I mentioned earlier. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on January 04, 2007, 03:41:53 AM
the way i see it , since there is plenty of power from the crank shaft of the 21 speed scrap bicycle, used as the fulcrum, in my setup, to keep the pendulum swinging as long as you want it to, i just can't see what the question is?

lol
sam

ps:  happy new year
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on January 04, 2007, 03:49:12 AM
hey everyone,

SHIFT THE GEARS IN YOUR MIND AND YOU JUST MIGHT LIKE IT!!!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on January 04, 2007, 04:27:42 AM
hey everyone,

all you have to do is keep the pendulum swinging, and everything else takes care of itself!!!! there are no more questions after that!!!!  just try it for yourself!!!  i think you will be amazed!!!!  i know i was.

lol
sam

ps: will i post anything?  NO.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 04, 2007, 06:46:37 AM
supersam post pics/vids if you have achieved over unity. sounds like you did?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 04, 2007, 06:47:02 AM
User 'hartiberlin1' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 90000)  >:(
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on January 04, 2007, 09:42:44 AM
I was thinking of that as well supersam, our wise friends talking about generators and computers really have no idea about engineering efficient mechanical systems. So you use a one-way bearing in the fulcrum and use springs on the hammer side to limit movement. Then you attach a flywheel to the one-way bearing shaft, when the pendulum hits the top of its swing on one side it hits the flywheel and momentum is transfered from the flywheel to the pendulum. If it works for more than 5 minutes you have your proof. Absolute simplicity in design and function comes from knowledge and understanding- not textbooks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: arbus on January 06, 2007, 08:57:47 AM
I tried this experiment.  You should try it too!
It is really easy to see that if you reverse it, ie oscilate the lever then the pendulum will gain momentum.
Please prove me wrong... :)

And no. the woman will not save 12 times the energy or sweat. She has to put just as much force on the pendulum as she would on the pump (more actually).  It is just a lever action.  Same when he is pushing the pendulum with the torch.  Remember the stationary torches are not moving.  The one in his hand is. 

And Yes the pendulum loses momentum when the lever oscilates.
Think about it... pendulum swings out, lever goes down.  Pendulum has lost energy. In the small demo video it dosent appear to lose energy because the Springiness in the lever stores the energy.

Again, Try it!!!

What is the first thing you would do if you really were generating 12 times more energy?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: arbus on January 06, 2007, 09:07:58 AM
Please if there is something i am not getting here let me know...

But i believe the mystical resonance effect is better thought of as stored energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on January 06, 2007, 09:11:17 AM
@Arbus,
please post a few pictures yof your experiments,
so we can see, if you did the setup right ?
Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on January 06, 2007, 01:49:32 PM
Gaby de wilde has shared an idea of the arched smot (http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/new-smot)
to improve the effect of the energy gain because of the centrifugal force. I have been thinking how to make a "perpetual pendulum" to use in the Milkovic two stage oscillator, by using a ball and magnets built within the pendulum pestle, and I think that the arched smot design could be used in favour of gravity as a way to keep the ball going on, taking advantage of gravitational, centrifugal and magnetical forces. I attach an sketch, could this work? Please don't get mad at me if the idea sucks, this my first post in this forum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on January 06, 2007, 02:44:32 PM
...Some of Milkoviks demos are to me unconvincing, because he seems not to take into account Work=force times distance...
Hi Neptune,

I agree with you. So in order to evaluate the system, we have to calculate this work.
Firstly we don't have to care the lever as it is a well known not OU system but it only transmits forces.
Secondly we "just" have to calculate the work that an oscillating pendulum could do when its rotation point moves along a vertical line.
Unfortunately, as even the movement equations of a simple pendulum are very complex to handle I'm afraid with the mathematics we would have to develop here.
We can make a first approximation: we may think that almost all the work is done when the pendulum is near vertical.
At this position it is known that the centrifugal pseudoforce can reach more than twice the weight of the pendulum. So the work done when the rotation point of the pendulum is sliding down along a distance h can be more than twice the work of its weight alone.
As the displacement is perpendicular to the motion of the pendulum mass, no work is made against this motion, so the kinetics energy is conserved, no loss on this side.
Nevertheless the pendulum is now lower so we lost a potential energy mgh.
Thus the final result of the energy gain should be around:
(Fc - mg)*h where Fc is the centrifugal force (Fc = m*v?/l where l is the length of the pendulum and v the speed of the mass).
As Fc > mg then we should have OU (it's the first time I think it should perhaps be possible :-).



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bigface on January 06, 2007, 03:50:17 PM
Not much can be concluded from the video since we don't know the technical aspects of it, for example, how do we know that the pendulum weighs like 50 kg and the hammer only say 5 kg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on January 06, 2007, 04:46:38 PM
...Some of Milkoviks demos are to me unconvincing, because he seems not to take into account Work=force times distance...
Hi Neptune,

I agree with you. So in order to evaluate the system, we have to calculate this work.
Firstly we don't have to care the lever as it is a well known not OU system but it only transmits forces.
Secondly we "just" have to calculate the work that an oscillating pendulum could do when its rotation point moves along a vertical line.
Unfortunately, as even the movement equations of a simple pendulum are very complex to handle I'm afraid with the mathematics we would have to develop here.
We can make a first approximation: we may think that almost all the work is done when the pendulum is near vertical.
At this position it is known that the centrifugal pseudoforce can reach more than twice the weight of the pendulum. So the work done when the rotation point of the pendulum is sliding down along a distance h can be more than twice the work of its weight alone.
As the displacement is perpendicular to the motion of the pendulum mass, no work is made against this motion, so the kinetics energy is conserved, no loss on this side.
Nevertheless the pendulum is now lower so we lost a potential energy mgh.
Thus the final result of the energy gain should be around:
(Fc - mg)*h where Fc is the centrifugal force (Fc = m*v?/l where l is the length of the pendulum and v the speed of the mass).
As Fc > mg then we should have OU (it's the first time I think it should perhaps be possible :-).





Back on this thread is a link to a study of the forces in the pendulum, that states that at the maximum point if stress, the force exerted on the pendulum is 3 times it's weight. So, following your logic, this device is way OU.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on January 06, 2007, 04:49:00 PM
Not much can be concluded from the video since we don't know the technical aspects of it, for example, how do we know that the pendulum weighs like 50 kg and the hammer only say 5 kg

One of the obvious things about this set up for being able to evidence the phenomenon discussed is that the pendulum has to be in balance with the lever, so if the pendulum side weights 50 kg the lever side has to weight 50 kg. duh.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: arbus on January 07, 2007, 03:44:25 AM
I was going to build a large scale version with a LONG pendelum on my kids swing set same as the small Spring wire version, But 1 problem is that i cant find anything springy that will support its own weight (and a pendelum) at that sort of length.
But i was just looking at the documents again and see that there is a first class lever design there. That i can build with a counterweight.

anyway i can explain  where the energy goes. i think..

  This is using the spring wire 3rd class lever design.

  The pendelum is affecting the lever(wire) even when the wire does not appear to be oscillating. Because the pendelum at the centre of its swing has more downward force. At 90 deg it is almost weightless. This causes the wire to oscilate up and down twice per swing. (even if you cant see it) and this is a classic 3rd class lever

Now the oscillation in the wire is caused by the up and down movement of the pendelum.  Because the wire is long you get a wave oscillation effect. If the wire was short it only oscilates twice per swing.

OK here's where you lose energy..  The up and down movement of the pendelum is absorbed by the spring wire.... 
Try this... get a piece of string, tie something to the end of it and swing it. Now move your hand up and down. You can either make the pendelum move faster or slower(stop). When you make it slow down you are absorbing the pendelum energy.

This is the same with the piece of wire it moves up and down, pretty much in sinc with the pendelum, but it is absorbing the pendelum's energy.
If you stop the wire from oscillating the pendelum will swing more efficently.

I think one misleading point of the viedos is that they show HEAVY pendelums on a short swing.  But you can see with the torches video they have to put alot of effort into the swing to keep the thing swinging.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 07, 2007, 03:53:50 AM
Not much can be concluded from the video since we don't know the technical aspects of it, for example, how do we know that the pendulum weighs like 50 kg and the hammer only say 5 kg

One of the obvious things about this set up for being able to evidence the phenomenon discussed is that the pendulum has to be in balance with the lever, so if the pendulum side weights 50 kg the lever side has to weight 50 kg. duh.

Not necessarily... Its now my belief that the hammer end of the lever might actually be slightly heavier to help match the pendulums phase. Basically it allows for the hammer to only be lifted when the pendulum is within 10 degrees of vertical. I have found in some simulations this slight imbalance allows for the system to run longer in phase while still allowing the pendulum to match velocities with its control pendulum. This means the pendulum is doing more work then when I was balancing the lever but runs longer and with more efficiency. As I have said before there is still lots to understand hidden in this seemingly simple device. Right now I don't have room or time to start working on a physical replication, but in the coming year I hope to start work on it.


@ all the naysayers
I have a challange for you the same I've issued to everyone. Download WM2D and do a few simulations where you have 2 identical pendulums one on the lever and the other running independant as a control for observation. Then add a damper to extract work. You will sooner or later find what I found which is examples of first law violations. The simulations and my hypothysis may be right or it may be wrong, but at least I'm testing it thuroughly before dissmissing it as junk.

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dek on January 07, 2007, 05:53:04 AM
Dingus- please post your w2md model for others to checkout.

General comments:

It occurred to me that one way to test the peak power output would be to pump water up a column.  The maximum height would give the peak-force.

To measure the power output, you would simply pump water from one reservoir to a higher reservoir, and measure the time it takes to transfer a known volume.  The energy gain is given by PE=mgh, and divided by time would give most of the power output (less friction in pump, flow resistance, compliance, etc.).  The water pumped gains the usable energy.  This would be more accurate than sweeping magnets past coils I think.

I think that the best way to measure the input power would be to actuate the pendulum electromagnetically, and just measure the electrical input power.  It could even be triggered by a manual switch.  Could also use one of those slick parallel-path designs.

If I were asked, I'd recommend closing the loop using a fluid-only system.  The pendulum could be driven by a water-wheel I think.

It's striking to me that the input force to keep the pendulum swinging is perpendicular to the gravitational force, and the work is being done parallel to the gravitational force.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 07, 2007, 09:12:38 AM
I already posted this I think, but I don't feel like looking for it...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 07, 2007, 09:29:31 AM
OK here's where you lose energy..  The up and down movement of the pendelum is absorbed by the spring wire.... 
Try this... get a piece of string, tie something to the end of it and swing it. Now move your hand up and down. You can either make the pendelum move faster or slower(stop). When you make it slow down you are absorbing the pendelum energy.

My spring line added kinetic energy to the pendulum, and beat matched it. (equal freq)
It also spun a flywheel with a rotational damper in one direction for over 4 minutes.

I'm planning on buying a legit copy next month, then I can upload the actual sims for you guys.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on January 08, 2007, 06:47:03 AM
DID I MISS SOMETHING OR WAS THE MATH JUST NOT RIGHT?

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on January 08, 2007, 06:50:36 AM
and mine just keeps going boing boing boing!!!! best of luck!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 08, 2007, 07:48:25 AM
Another example of excess energy... Its not much and I'm not tapping any power from the system but it clearly shows there is more kinetic energy in the pendulum driven lever then in the control pendulum.

I got a copy of WM2D today.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 08, 2007, 09:29:14 AM
 :(
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on January 08, 2007, 03:21:26 PM
I downloaded a version of wm2d from a place a dare not to mention, It seems to be fully functional, but also sufficiently complex. Darn, don't know if to start with a real world model or study the software to build virtual models. Either way will take time and with something so interesting is hard to find patience.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 16, 2007, 09:19:33 AM
Compare the energy in the pendulums... Plus I took some kinetic energy and burned it with a damper. Clearly another violation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on January 17, 2007, 06:43:50 PM
          Hi!
     A new year and some fresh news about  the latest developments of Prof  Milkovic at     http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/AktuelnoEng.html 
       All the Bests! / Alex
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mindsweeper on January 18, 2007, 07:13:53 PM
Hi everyone using Overunity.com

As this is my 1st post I thought I?d just say I know very little about OU, I came here while searching the net for Josef Papp. Found the posting on Mikovic and the buzz discussion, I was inspired.

I got to work with Wm2D and think that a good way to prove unity (+)? is use a flywheel to swing the pendulum?.

I?m using a 15Kg pendulum, 16Kg lever, 18,78Kg weight, 9Kg flywheel.

Could we not at least prove unity this way?

I?ve not managed to get more that 12 rotations of the flywheel but it seems that fine tuning the green weight on the lever can induce radical swing effects in the pendulum, causing it to speed up and then go out of sync for a few rotations then back in sync.

How hard would it be to get the flywheel rotations correct (resonant?) to induce a steady swing effect on the pendulum?

Should I just give up now?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 18, 2007, 09:11:13 PM
Hi everyone using Overunity.com

As this is my 1st post I thought I?d just say I know very little about OU, I came here while searching the net for Josef Papp. Found the posting on Mikovic and the buzz discussion, I was inspired.

I got to work with Wm2D and think that a good way to prove unity (+)? is use a flywheel to swing the pendulum?.

I?m using a 15Kg pendulum, 16Kg lever, 18,78Kg weight, 9Kg flywheel.

Could we not at least prove unity this way?

I?ve not managed to get more that 12 rotations of the flywheel but it seems that fine tuning the green weight on the lever can induce radical swing effects in the pendulum, causing it to speed up and then go out of sync for a few rotations then back in sync.

How hard would it be to get the flywheel rotations correct (resonant?) to induce a steady swing effect on the pendulum?

Should I just give up now?

could you try and make it a one-way flywheel? i think that might make it better.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mindsweeper on January 19, 2007, 10:38:11 AM

could you try and make it a one-way flywheel? i think that might make it better.

OK but how would you measure the force needed to move the pendulum to start position and then measure the total force the flywheel takes from one release.

I know I can't get it going perpetually,

But, I'm not sure how to workout the correct start position so the most force from the initial pendulum release is absorbed by the flywheel. Is it quite difficult?

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 19, 2007, 10:54:56 PM
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=4933;image)

I still don't know how I did it...

Unidirectional force on the flywheel for 4 minutes...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 20, 2007, 02:03:17 AM
i am new to wm2d so i wouldn't know sorry
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 20, 2007, 04:32:37 AM
hehe look at this one.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 21, 2007, 06:18:04 AM
 :o

It checks out alright...
Very low input energy though, so it may be a glitch in the software...
We'll Have to blow it up to a larger scale to truely observe its energy flow.

I'm busy now, but this week I plan on dedicating a few hours to re-engineering
your design. Thanks for this awesome example of a vast first law violation!!!

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 22, 2007, 09:47:52 AM
hmmmm

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 22, 2007, 11:37:15 AM
I was going to examine that...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 22, 2007, 12:11:19 PM
I was going to examine that...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 22, 2007, 12:33:29 PM
 ;D

Thank you...
Looks promising!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 22, 2007, 01:31:22 PM
I can safely say this simulation proves your system of pendulum assisting lever is 200-400% more efficient than the control pendulum. I added pin friction to ensure it, and your design scaled up is another clear violation. With the mass kinetic energy gain not only will your pendulum swing longer it'll swing harder!

Now you just have to find a way to extract energy from the system while maintaining these spectacular results...

Good luck and thanks again for this contribution,
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 23, 2007, 01:03:18 PM
i am getting some interesting kicks from this system!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 23, 2007, 09:51:17 PM
lol look at this guys! tell me what you think! :)

crazy kicks!

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 23, 2007, 10:51:33 PM
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 23, 2007, 11:26:31 PM
I'm at work so I can't open the example from here, but I would recomend double clicking on the graphs and seting them back to automatic so your results aren't cut like that. Changing the graphs back to auto may help you better see whats happening.

Good luck and I look foreward to further examining your new concept.
~Dingus

@EVERYONE
Look at FE's simulation and the graphed kinetic energy results I had posted from it. This is a clear and rather egregious first law violation. Any nay-sayers want to help me understand how this isn't what I think it is? I would greatly appreciate any input that will help me understand how the pendulum can share its kinetic energy with the lever and come out with more energy than it started with...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 24, 2007, 12:05:21 AM
how do i change it to auto?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 24, 2007, 08:42:23 AM
more kicks with minor tweak to the system.  ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 24, 2007, 09:53:49 AM
here
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 24, 2007, 11:07:47 AM
how do i change it to auto?

Double click on and graph and click the auto box next to each table value.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 24, 2007, 11:09:34 AM
Those both seem to contain glitches that cause the excess energy...
 :-\
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 24, 2007, 11:46:36 AM
hmmm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 24, 2007, 11:55:25 AM
Hmmmm is right...
A little redesigning and presto! (>2 COP)

I think its the locking rigid arms you had attached causing the glitch, but if you watch it run you can see the glitches when they happen.

Check this out though...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 28, 2007, 02:03:37 AM
:)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 28, 2007, 02:51:09 AM
last one before i go to work/job. i think this one is the best so far...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: a19grey on January 28, 2007, 09:05:33 PM
@EVERYONE
Look at FE's simulation and the graphed kinetic energy results I had posted from it. This is a clear and rather egregious first law violation. Any nay-sayers want to help me understand how this isn't what I think it is? I would greatly appreciate any input that will help me understand how the pendulum can share its kinetic energy with the lever and come out with more energy than it started with...

The fundamental problem with comparing the stationary pendulum's behavior with the pendulum-attached-to-the-lever's behavior is that you should EXPECT the latter to have more energy at some points even if the same input energy was given. This is because the pendulum attached to the lever moves downard in its motion as the lever swings. By moving downward, the pendulum exchanges gravitational potential energy for rotational/kinetic energy.  Also, note how in the energy vs time graphs the graph for the simple pendulum has a regular decreasing periodicity and the lines are really close together. However, in the pendulum-lever energy graphs the periodicity is very complex and the lines are more... rarefied or spread out.  This is because the system is more complex and so there are points (at the same value for time t) where, yes, the lever-pendulum has more energy, but there are also times where the lever-pendulum actually has less energy than the simple pendulum.  It oscillates more wildly and between a slightly higher extreme than the simple pendulum (since the lever-pendulum falls a bit and therefore the motion of the lever is connected to the motion of the pendulum) but there isn't any new energy being created. Or, at the very least, this example does not show an excess of energy. The difficulty here is, of course, that it's impossible to prove a negative, so no one's going to be able to 'prove' it doesn't create more energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 29, 2007, 01:38:45 PM
is this a software glitch? i am sure we can use this kick if it is for real.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 29, 2007, 11:01:35 PM
It oscillates more wildly and between a slightly higher extreme than the simple pendulum (since the lever-pendulum falls a bit and therefore the motion of the lever is connected to the motion of the pendulum) but there isn't any new energy being created. Or, at the very least, this example does not show an excess of energy. The difficulty here is, of course, that it's impossible to prove a negative, so no one's going to be able to 'prove' it doesn't create more energy.

I think you are overlooking the biggest whole in your argument... If the pendulum on the lever is introduced with no kinetic energy, then the net kinetic energy for the whole device is zero. The pendulum lever has several times the friction pins and surface area to be effected by wind resistance, yet it swings for longer and with more intensity than the stationary pendulum. To phrase it another way the pendulum lever does more work to sustain its running tempo, yet it runs more efficiently then a standard pendulum that was given the same kinetic starting energy. If the lever pendulum is doing more work and is draining less energy to continue its swing; this is unarguably a improvement in comparison to a standard pendulum. We can agree on that right?

To debate this you don't need to prove a negitive, just that we are somehow giving more energy to one pendulum then the other. I'm pretty positive that we are not, but I encourage naysayers to download examine and test for themselves. Only through understanding will anything be proven. We don't understand why we are getting back kinetic averages of 100-400% of the introduction energy, but we aren't willing to assume its inconslusive without understanding it.

Thank you for your devotion to the quest for answers,
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on January 31, 2007, 02:30:56 AM
did anyone look at my last post.  the kick is different from what i was talking about before. so if you haven't looked please do so.


peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 31, 2007, 02:45:19 AM
I looked last night but it appeared to be a glitch.
I'll check it out again tonight...

A little hint to save time though... If there is a physical constraint anomely, followed by a spike in kinetic energy or speed... Its a glitch. This 2 arm rigid balance system does not work correctly and is the source of these glitch pulses... Look for yourself and be honnest with yourself, you can clearly tell weather its slowly losing energy or if its magically creating it due to bad design... Basically what I'm trying to say is your last few examples have all been glitches based on the same mechanical glitch everytime... Time for a new approach.

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: a19grey on January 31, 2007, 06:24:45 AM

I think you are overlooking the biggest whole in your argument... If the pendulum on the lever is introduced with no kinetic energy, then the net kinetic energy for the whole device is zero. 
To debate this you don't need to prove a negitive, just that we are somehow giving more energy to one pendulum then the other.

While, yes, you are giving both pendulums the same initial Kinetic energy and therefore both systems have the same total kinetic energy to begin with, they have different Potential energies.  The pendulum-lever system has far more initial Gravitational Potential energy than the simple pendulum. This is, trivially, due to the presence of the lever. The lever has mass and is in a gravitational field and therefore has some potential energy associated with it. This gravitational potential energy is, at times, exchanged for the kinetic energy of various parts of the system. So, although you don't put in any more kinetic energy into either of the systems, the pendulum-lever system can, at times, have more kinetic energy than the simple pendulum.  The simplest example of this exhange between potential and kinetic- i.e. where there is no kinetic energy input, but the Kinetic energy increases- is the dropping of a ball. The ball falls and exchanges gravity-energy for kinetic energy. Of course, our system here is more like a really good bouncy ball since the system then 'bounces back' and exhanges kinetic energy for potential.

Yes, Mingus, at least we can all agree on that. We're all looking for truth. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on January 31, 2007, 08:06:39 AM
Ok we're on the right track now.

First can we also agree that eventually the pendulum/lever will fully reset itself with the exeption of loading the pendulum, just like a stationary penulum would? Which would mean the only energy required to start again would be loading the pendulum.

Next can we agree that since gravity and not the user is adding kinetic energy to both the lever and the pendulum, that this device puts out more kinetic energy then you put in?
 
with a 'd' please,
~(D)ingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on February 01, 2007, 04:23:14 AM
This seems like the same old merry go round, people saying it will work because a simulation says it will, others saying it can't because there textbook tells them so. In the end you have to build a model and play with it, anything less is just opinion which amounts to approximately nothing. I can't wait until steorn drops his bomb on the scientific community so we can put the critics to bed, then we can finally talk about how and not if these machines will work.
In any case keep up the good work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 01, 2007, 06:46:19 AM
I understand simulation is a poor excuse for evidence of anything... But, Measuring such variables in physical reality is infinitely more difficult and expensive. In the mean time I'm just looking for patterns in different configurations. I hope to eventually find the geometry required to match the oscilating pendulums and stationary pendulums phase. Once I can get them running in phase, it will further enforce my arguement, show a maxium output, and make a good guide for replication.

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Fingal on February 05, 2007, 11:37:44 PM
A 'traditional' mathematical analysis of the problem.
http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/pendtutor1.htm,
done a few years ago.

Haven't seen this reference on the forum before, hope it is not a repost.
Conclusion in the analysis is, with standard laws applied no OU,
but do propose some method for measuring the effectivness of the system.

Fingal

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 06, 2007, 12:24:35 AM
That page descibes a stationary pedulum...
We've already realized they're not OU, but
to do the same math for this system would
be infinitely more difficult. Not it! :D

Thanks for the info though,
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Fingal on February 06, 2007, 04:04:05 PM
Sorry, I gave the first link only.
http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/pendan1.htm,
http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/pendan2.htm,
http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/veljkomeasurement.htm
excercise the traditional math for the dual mechanical oscillation system.
The pages are linked with arrow on top and bottom.

My thought was that, if anybody use a SW simulation for the problem,
simulation softwares would probably be using the same mathematical basis.

regards
Fingal
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 07, 2007, 12:16:04 AM
Well, the purposed method of measurement is nothing more than loads of friction... Spring loaded catch draggin over gear teeth. Each component would further rob the device of energy. So I don't see it as an accurate or even relevant experiment. Why not extract minimal power from it and see if it swings for as long or longer then a stationary pendulum...

You should ask that websites owner to do the math for my my last simulation and then post their excuses here. That way its clear to the other users there is no physical math backing up their/your position on the site. Only the laws of physics are on your side, and they've been updated and changed a few times...

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Fingal on February 07, 2007, 07:50:55 PM
Well, it is not my position that is expressed on that website. If it was I would probably not be interested in visiting Overunity!

I scanned the forum once again and found that this exact method already has been proposed
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1763.msg18947.html#msg18947.
 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1763.msg18947.html#msg18947.)
(very good description). Sorry for not seeing that earlier.

I think the only relevance of the measurement is to test the original claim ( 12 times more output than input, and I think we agree he means energy), when for example do a simple task of pumping (lifting) water.

If however the OU is very small or would not manifest itself as output from the lever, I agree the test would not be valid to do. So one could argue that the the test is only valid of it shows OU of great magnitude!

Also the test may not be relevant for your ongoing discussion. I didn't mean to interfere or interrupt you actions!

Last, why does the author of the website do these rather complicated calculations  instead of just building it and do the test. Of course, he doesn't believe it is OU, in the first place!

Myself, I am just a bit lazy and enjoy surfing the web for interesting ideas.

regards.
Fingal





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 07, 2007, 09:50:02 PM
I don't believe this is 1200% efficient. Its just not... I don't even claim this mechanical device is even overunity at all, but I do believe this device violates the laws of thermodynamics. Excess energy is being created by the lever and is transfered to the pendulum. When the device comes to a rest the lever reassumes its starting position. Therefore no additional energy is given to either the pendulum or lever to achieve this potential to kinetic transfer. I'm sorry for assuming you were nay saying, but many people have come and posted things claiming it proves this system doesn't work, but no one has posted anything substantial thus far. Overunity is a long ways off for this device, I just want to understand the energy transfer that allows the pendulum to collect excess energy from the lever.

~Dingus

p.s. Get a copy WM2D!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on February 08, 2007, 04:45:49 AM
Hey guys, I found this form while wasting some time and I like it.  Its fun to imagine ideas and have people to talk to about them without being laughed at. 

I looked at the video and I found it very interesting.  I don't think this device is over-unity, but it appears to be a very clever use of harmonic coupling and leverage (of sorts).  The pendulum is shifting the beam 's center of mass in and out of the central axial.  You'll notice the pendulum traverses a large distance (compared to the beam).  The beam takes that large distance and converts the kinetic energy to force.  You'll notice the beam only moves about an inch or so but has great force behind it.  So the energy is roughly the same (neglecting losses) but in a different form.  The pendulum has a small force, but large distance to travel (comparatively of course), the beam has a small travel distance but large force. 

The harmonic coupling of the two objects is interesting too.  You'll notice in the intro of the video (where the Serbian guy is demonstrating with a toy), that he sets the toy up in his pendulum/beam configuration and says that the load has no effect.  However, you'll also notice he has to re-adjust the configuration because the pendulum was slowing down fast.  This just shows that the pendulum is coupled to the beam.  If you could put a force on the beam at the right time you could cause the pendulum to stop moving.  By re-adjusting where the pendulum sits, you can reduce the coupling (making the vibration of the beam not effect the pendulum as much) but you will restrict the distance the beam can travel.  All in all, this seems to me to be a very efficient way of gearing without the worry of slips or tears! 

Personally, I feel an over-unity device is going to come from something that stores energy yet does not give that energy when used - like a magnet does when you induce a voltage.  The magnet has stored energy yet the field does not decrease when you induce a current in a coil.... I've always found this phenomenon very very interesting. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on February 08, 2007, 12:10:31 PM
not much of a new approach but the results look good.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on February 09, 2007, 11:29:40 AM
Hi All,

I have modeled Milkovic pendulum using WM2D.

All the stuff is here:
- model
http://exvacuo.free.fr/Sciences/Experiences/Pendule/PenduleMilkovic.wm2d
- picture
http://exvacuo.free.fr/Sciences/Experiences/Pendule/PenduleMilkovic.jpg
- low motion video simulation
http://exvacuo.free.fr/Sciences/Experiences/Pendule/PenduleMilkovic.avi

In this model, the pendulum is used to pull up a weight (pay load), attached to the lever with a string. Thus the potential energy of the pay load will give us the energy gain.

Each time the pay load climbs, a platform is positionned upper and upper in order to prevent the load to fall back. The platform is playing no role in the energy balance.

The energy (kinetic+potential) of the pendulum and of the lever is monitored and the potential energy of the pay load is substracted from it to give the total energy gain.

It is fund that the energy gain is null. It is even a bit negative because I neglected the very weak kinetic energy of the pay load.

The weight of the lever can be 0 (actual simulation) or any value, it doesn't change the null result.

As Milkovic doesn't claim new physics to explain its machine and as its machine modeled according the current physics laws doesn't work, we can conclude there is no OU in Milkovic pendulum. It is just a usefull device to transform a form of work into another.

Fran?ois





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on February 09, 2007, 12:20:42 PM
hey guys take a look at the acceleration of rectangle 19.

.sorry if this is of no help.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: theratboy on February 15, 2007, 09:26:28 AM
this is not overunity,
its a gravity motor...it makes use of earths attract force
this means this particular generator will only work in places where gravity exists,
for space applications a flywheel made of magnets and inductors providing current will do the trick(flywheels dont slow down in space because there isnt any gravity force that slows down)

i cant believe we had this in front of our noses all this time...

btw..its not such a good idea to recolect energy from the moving piston in order to store it and impulse it again w/ a magnet or w/e

its a better idea to keep spinning a flywheel with the up-down movement and moving and pushing the pendulum once every 3-12 cycles, depends of how efficient you build the model

and im not even merging this w/ bendini's (imagine a working concep with a flywheel made of magnets =]

i dont think NASA will certainly pay much attention to this,

i haven't read all these post, if this was already discussed, just ignore me...im just trying to post tips :)

lol had months wanting to post something but was afraid
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 16, 2007, 02:27:15 PM
Has somebody done lately any rebuilding work on this machine ?

I mean real try to replicate it , not just in WM2D software ?

I always see the oscillations slowing down in theWM2D screenshots,
but did not have the time to have a closer look...
SO should theoscillations not rise, if it is an overunity machine ?

Please post real pics of real rebuild machines.
Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 17, 2007, 12:43:18 AM
No physical replications so far, but from the collective wm2d sims, I've determined this isn't even close overunity. It does appear to run more efficiently than a standard pendulum, so my theory is its a small 2nd law violation, but thats heavily debated.

There are far too many promising projects to invest anymore time in this.

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on February 17, 2007, 05:47:32 AM
Has somebody done lately any rebuilding work on this machine ?

I mean real try to replicate it , not just in WM2D software ?

I always see the oscillations slowing down in theWM2D screenshots,
but did not have the time to have a closer look...
SO should the oscillations not rise, if it is an overunity machine ?

Please post real pics of real rebuild machines.
Many thanks in advance.

I have not previously posted to this forum because of the inane level of the posts.

But here is my effort to date. I have taken a different approach and felt compelled
to power the pendulum as a first step. The picture shows an 18 Kg pendulum being
powered with an 11 watt motor.

Best regards,

Ron

 

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on February 17, 2007, 06:14:26 AM


I have not previously posted to this forum because of the inane level of the posts.

But here is my effort to date. I have taken a different approach and felt compelled
to power the pendulum as a first step. The picture shows an 18 Kg pendulum being
powered with an 11 watt motor.

Best regards,

Ron

 All the simulations to date seem to have missed the point. This is a two stage
mechanical oscillator.

Here is a picture from the back before the weight was doubled and before the
counter weight was installed. It was a motor test and incidentally the 9 Kg weight
was kept in motion (120? plus) with only 5? watts.

R






[/quote]
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 17, 2007, 06:22:20 AM
A very nice prototype...

So the motor will only turn untill the pendulum trips the pressure switch, then gravity takes over again. I also like that your counter weight is adjustable, as well as the levers pivet point. So I assume the pannel box is you speed controler. How has your system harmonics hunt going? Congrats again on the really dynamic design job.

Glad to see someone is really putting a propper effort in to exploring this technology.

Best design and prototype I've seen in a while,
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on February 17, 2007, 06:41:24 AM
A very nice prototype...

So the motor will only turn untill the pendulum trips the pressure switch, then gravity takes over again. I also like that your counter weight is adjustable, as well as the levers pivet point. So I assume the pannel box is you speed controler. How has your system harmonics hunt going? Congrats again on the really dynamic design job.

Glad to see someone is really putting a propper effort in to exploring this technology.

Best design and prototype I've seen in a while,
~Dingus

Thanks for th kind words, Dingus,

The blue box holds the logic and the Fet to pulse the motor.

The motor has one coil and three magnets on each rotor. To fire the coil only on the down swing I chose to use a quadrature encoder, as seen in this picture on the front.

The opto's for the coil are just ahead of the motor. When the secondary beam is
allowed to oscillate also, it requires more input to the motor, no surprise here.
To accommodate this I added two more windows to the opto's and two more magnets
to the motor from my original four magnet two window 5 watt model... and a doubling of the weight. This is just enough power to allow a limited vertical displacement of the pendulum pivot point. The counter weight is two 25 pound bar bell weights.

At this time I have not attempted to extract power from the secondary arm, rather
I have been side tracked back to a couple of previous generator projects. I will not
post more on this until such time as I have "caught up".

R
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 17, 2007, 07:31:18 AM
Well if you ever have a digital video to post please be sure to bring it here. I'm quite curious to see the phases of the pendulum and lever. Good luck on your current experiments.

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: helmut on February 17, 2007, 12:48:03 PM
Hello
I guess.that we search the unknown truth.
The Computer is raltity and the Programs to do the calkulations as well.
But we should remember,that we search for the unknown,which is not Reality (yet)
Not the Computer sets the Level,but our Minds.
So please do not devote the Developers ans Searchers.

Helmut
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stevensuf on February 17, 2007, 07:42:59 PM
If anyone has a prototype a simple way to test for OU would be to fix the lever, lift the pendulum to a set hieght release it and time how long it swings for, next release the lever lift the pendulum to the same hieght release and time again till it stops, if the duration of both is the same then we have ou, if less then we know some of the pendulums motion has been lost to moving the lever. A simple electromagnet , some iron and a small neo magnet on the pendulum with a hall switch and transistor could easily be used to keep the pendulum going, (much like a pulse motor). Taking power

There is no magical resonance or frequencies here ,just playing with balance.

In my head the logic is simple, the motion of the pendulum makes the lever effectively heavier at one point causing the opposite side to rise then when the pendulum is at full swing its weight is removed from the equation causing the lever to fall.

I would love for a professor to explain to me where gravitational pe is stored ;) I have been formulating an idea in my head for sometime, that there is no such thing as energy only state,  ie hot cant do work without cold, motion cant do work unless other motion. If we imagine heat as electron orbit increase in diameter but slowing down of the electron speed and cold as decrease in electron orbit but increase in elecrton speed (if the orbit did not slow down as the atom heated and orbit hieght increased then any change in heat would create plasma as the attraction of the proton to electon would weaken and the elctron would fly off, simmilary if when the atom cooled and the orbit hieght decreased then the orbit speed would have to increase or the electron would crash into the nucleus as the proton attraction would drag it down) . Imagine motion as electron orbit change from circular to elliptical with the electron speed varying to keep the attraction to the nucleus balanced in both cases the overall momenta of the electron remaining constant.

Imagine i put "pe" into a rock on the moon but let it drop on the earth woohoo free energy, the smart asses will say but the moon has pe already so lets say i give an asteroid in the belt a little shove in earths direction there is no pe=mgh for many millions of miles. You do not put PE into an object by raising it, its overall state remains the same as it was on the ground. Id say there is no such thing as pe it is imaginary you can get work out of gravity you can get work out of heat or motion but no bloody energy, it is all just state and an attempt to persuade matter to change its state by application of force or field.

Just an idea??
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 18, 2007, 02:46:27 AM
If anyone has a prototype a simple way to test for OU would be to fix the lever, lift the pendulum to a set hieght release it and time how long it swings for, next release the lever lift the pendulum to the same hieght release and time again till it stops, if the duration of both is the same then we have ou, if less then we know some of the pendulums motion has been lost to moving the lever.

Even with twice the friction this pendulum lever system is capable of storing its kinetic energy longer and swing in phase at a higher velocity. So that is why I claim to have observed 2nd law violations via simulation software. I assume the device to be underunity because even if you were able to extract this excess kinetic energy it wouldn't be enough to reset the pendulum from a stopped point. If a designer developed a way to continously maintain the intensity and phase of the pendulum, perhaps contintuous extraction of this observed excess kinetic energy is possible.

Still worth working on if you're interested in mechanical resonance...
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: artman on February 19, 2007, 04:44:26 PM
Hi all!

At first when I found this topic and Milkovic's device (just 2 weeks ago) I was amazed. The videos looks rather convincing to me, but after some hours spent in WM2D I became a little unsatisfied. I had a hard time even get some result that resembled Milkovic's motions, but after a while I understood that the proportion in mass between the pendulum and lever was wrong ( I had too heavy lever). Anyway I did not find any clear signs of overunity and became somewhat sceptic, something was wrong, either Milkovic or WM2D or both.
The more I think about it, I've come to the conclusion that WM2D is not usable in this case.
Still I'm not totaly convinced that the device is OU, but I could really use some FE, so I'm going in =).
My replica is almost done, and I will post some pictures and results later but first I wanted to shear some thoughts about where the energy might be coming from.
What comes to my mind is a text called "Vimaana" (flying craft in sanskrit) where the auther Lehel Repits (written in swedish, printed in 1971) describes how to build a flying sourcer, both a FE machine and an antigravity device.
He is into some schauberger ideas, however, on page 35 we can read
(http://)
I will translate it for you.
"A german engeneer /Hansen/ living in /Helsingborg/ in sweden was very close to the solution. The experiment was published in a swedish magasine in the begining of year 1969. The experiment was composed of two equal wheights, each tied to a string and put in rotation. At a certain point in time the radius /strings/ where shortend. The speed of the rotation whas doubled. At the same point on the pereferie orbit the wheights are allowed to resume the longer radius rotation. According to all schoolbooks in physics the speed of the rotation would also resume to the former rotational speed. And yet, instead of the rotational speed falling down, as you learn in school, the wheights remaind in the higher rotational speed. At each shortening of the radius, the rotational speed squered to the former. If such accerleration is to be achived at each radius-shortening, its demanded that the radius-shortening happends at the same perefial point every time, and this demand also aplies to the longening of the radius. Hansen called these moments and the whole effect  'mechanical impulse-moments' "
 
To me, this resembles our case with the pendulum, when the lever flips, its like the wheigt gets longer radius at some points and shorter at some. If the timing is perfect this could tap the FE.
This would also explain why WM2D aint helping. . it obeys to the schoolbook laws.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: WhiteFalcon on February 19, 2007, 05:17:47 PM
Hi!

First post from me!  I'm not an engineer of any kind, but a chemist interested in "free energies", my academics included math, physics etc... but just enough to grasp a few concepts here and there...!!!

I will give this device a try...

The way I see the whole thing is :

The pendulum is not doing "work" in the whole device : the only work it is doing is "moving the gravity center" of the lever (arm).  The lever's gravity center is a massless component, so moving it doesn't use much "work"...  So the loss of the pendulum should be the same as a normal pendulum (friction)...

Here's how I will build it :

When the lever AND the pendulum are at rest, the "gravity center" of the whole thing should be just over the axis.

The mass of the lever and pendulum are related.  When the pendulum is at its higher swing (from one side or the another), the gravity center of the lever should not be moved too far away from the axis, because the whole device could FALL OVER, or we would have to use "stoppers" (in which we will "lose" work).

The ideal balanced device should be able to operate without the need to add any stoppers, or springs.

This is how I "see" it, I may be totally wrong!!!!

---

If it works, I won't use the lever to operate two bicycle wheels, but two Faraday Discs (using Tesla mods!!), the high currents delivered by the discs will be used to hydrolyse water, with an efficiency of over 100% (plasma hydrolysis), the gases from the hydrolysis could run a Tesla Turbine before they are collected and burnt in a Generator to supply electricity to the motor which will keep the pendulum going!!

--

Could we put two gravity-machines in series?

12:1  times 12:1 = 144:1 COP !!

WF

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pg46 on February 19, 2007, 07:15:37 PM
@ i_ron

 Nice work on your test unit. I am hoping it will work out well for you and I look forward to hearing back on your progress. Real nice design!

@ artman

 Intersting concept you brought forward. Sounds like once you get this unit up to speed one could then cut the power and keep it going by adjusting the radius of the strings - does that sound right? and who is going to give this one a try?

Best Regards,
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 20, 2007, 03:04:11 AM
The videos looks rather convincing to me, but after some hours spent in WM2D I became a little unsatisfied.

Anyway I did not find any clear signs of overunity and became somewhat sceptic, something was wrong, either Milkovic or WM2D or both.

The more I think about it, I've come to the conclusion that WM2D is not usable in this case.

This would also explain why WM2D aint helping. . it obeys to the schoolbook laws.

Really?

I don't know how you could possibly miss this then:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=5874;image)

Look at the graphs... Even with twice the friction on the lever pendulum device it still puts out roughly 5-7 times the kinetic energy, and the pendulum lever swings for 3 additional minutes. If that is not an energy gain... I don't know what is.

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: artman on February 20, 2007, 08:14:33 AM
@dingus
Ok, either WM2D doesnt even obey to the schoolbook laws (makes WM2D even more useless), or you are into some new FE device based on that WM2D scheme.
What is your point ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on February 20, 2007, 09:16:57 AM
@dingus
Ok, either WM2D doesnt even obey to the schoolbook laws (makes WM2D even more useless), or you are into some new FE device based on that WM2D scheme.
What is your point ?

@dingus if you don't mind me interjecting...

the point is this...we can possibly tap into this excess energy to our benefit ;)

...that is if this wm2d is accurate. we can possibly achieve over unity.   

also we start with the same amount of equal energy, but we end up with very different results, one pendulum outlasts the other....hmmm?

peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: artman on February 20, 2007, 02:35:51 PM
Quote
...that is if this wm2d is accurate. we can possibly achieve over unity. 

First of all I think the setups of leversfe-ou2-enhanced.wm2d and leversfe-ou3-enhanced.wm2d are too complex for WM2D to handle them correct.
You have two stable points, and knowing how distrubute the powers of all the 3 moving parts over these two points is a programmers nightmare.
It can be done, but it would require software designed especially for such systems.
I think WM2D is more designed for general purpose.

And second, there is more to the properties of mass than WM2D takes account for like gyroscopic properties and those mechanical impulse-moments for example.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nwman on February 20, 2007, 08:16:03 PM
OK, Its been a while since I have posted on here so I thought I would throw my two cents in. I hate to just say this and not do it myself but from the complexity I have seen of some on the devices posted on this thread you could easley "real world" test some of these concepts. On video, test one pendulum on a fixed point of rotation vs. one on the lever setup doing no work just have springs/bungees resistance acting on the lever side. Then see which one stops first just like the WM2D Sim. Test it a million times with switching the pendulum back and forth and the results should be apparent. If the lever pendulum constantly outlasts the fixed pendulum then we may have something. This is the obvious step to take if the WM2D is in question.

I love the simple complexity of this device!

Tim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on February 20, 2007, 11:41:28 PM
Thanks FE,
You always handle such posts much better than I do...

example:
@Artman
Are you really claiming that 10 components
in one sim is too much for my computer?
Read the graphs... Understand the graphs...
Want more proof? Build a pendulum, its easy.
Just not worth my time and money right now...

You've seen the evidence and it means nothing to you...
If I were you I would just spend my time on something I believed in.
(Linard Griffin H2, Mike motor, SMOT, TPU)

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 21, 2007, 12:43:45 PM
A very nice prototype...

So the motor will only turn untill the pendulum trips the pressure switch, then gravity takes over again. I also like that your counter weight is adjustable, as well as the levers pivet point. So I assume the pannel box is you speed controler. How has your system harmonics hunt going? Congrats again on the really dynamic design job.

Glad to see someone is really putting a propper effort in to exploring this technology.

Best design and prototype I've seen in a while,
~Dingus

Thanks for th kind words, Dingus,

The blue box holds the logic and the Fet to pulse the motor.

The motor has one coil and three magnets on each rotor. To fire the coil only on the down swing I chose to use a quadrature encoder, as seen in this picture on the front.

The opto's for the coil are just ahead of the motor. When the secondary beam is
allowed to oscillate also, it requires more input to the motor, no surprise here.
To accommodate this I added two more windows to the opto's and two more magnets
to the motor from my original four magnet two window 5 watt model... and a doubling of the weight. This is just enough power to allow a limited vertical displacement of the pendulum pivot point. The counter weight is two 25 pound bar bell weights.

At this time I have not attempted to extract power from the secondary arm, rather
I have been side tracked back to a couple of previous generator projects. I will not
post more on this until such time as I have "caught up".

R


Hi Ron,
very nice professional setup.

I hope you will get it running and can post more infos.
Can you do some measurements of the output power already ?

And then compare against your used input power for the
motor driving your pendulum ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on February 22, 2007, 11:19:46 PM


[/quote]

Hi Ron,
very nice professional setup.

I hope you will get it running and can post more infos.
Can you do some measurements of the output power already ?

And then compare against your used input power for the
motor driving your pendulum ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
[/quote]


Thanks Stefan,

The output arm needs the restriction of a load in order for the pendulum to work
properly when it's pivot point is allowed to move. I have been investigating various schemes but haven't settled on one yet.

It has been a pleasure to work with Veljko on this. He is genuine, sincere and
offers much support and encouragement.

Regards, Ron

 




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on February 23, 2007, 01:46:16 AM
*edit*
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on February 23, 2007, 05:47:31 PM
*edit*

Please explain what you mean?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on February 23, 2007, 10:04:02 PM
*edit*

Please explain what you mean?

sorry but i messed up on my last post. think i had a bit too much to drink. so i came back and erased it.


peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on February 24, 2007, 12:28:11 AM

[/quote]

peace
[/quote]

Thats allowed,  <grin>
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: njamnjam on March 04, 2007, 09:23:19 PM
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stevewal2 on March 05, 2007, 06:24:04 PM
Thanks njamnjam,

Well its still looking a pretty rough prototype. The input coil setup could certainly be better arranged. but even so he's still getting overunity:-

Quote
There is only a small electrical advantage with just six induction coils on the secondary oscillator wheel as presently configured. The input coil consumes 1 amp at twelve volts at approximately a 20% duty cycle which comes to around 2.4 Watts. The output is between 200 and 300 mAmps, at between 14 and 15 Volts, which comes to around 3.5 Watts AC (sine wave). These are very rough measurements and don't represent a full curve analysis of the input and output.

So maybe like he says, a more efficient setup really could get some meaningful results.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dorro1971 on March 05, 2007, 07:11:27 PM
one could always capture the voltage of field colapse from the main coil...get the input current down abit.

working on low energy input system at the moment

if it works, details will follow
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Garethfine on March 07, 2007, 03:23:47 PM
Hi all.
Well this has been a very interesting topic up to now, save for the lack of working experiments. I've never posted before but you'll see why i decided to today.

You gotta see what my brother built last night. I went over and made a video of it and took some pictures. Very interesting ideed, but I have to say, we didn't find anything remarkable in the design.

Some notes:
There is a particularly large effort involved to get the pendulum swinging initially (easily forgotten)
Subsequent pushes on the pendulum could be compared to the output on the wheel of the bicycle, except that the lever stops moving when there is a small load on the wheel.

See for yourself and comments will be welcomed.

Will post the video in the next reply because this keeps failing. It 12Mb.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: barbosi on March 07, 2007, 03:37:55 PM
Hi all.
Well this has been a very interesting topic up to now, save for the lack of working experiments. I've never posted before but you'll see why i decided to today.

You gotta see what my brother built last night. I went over and made a video of it and took some pictures. Very interesting ideed, but I have to say, we didn't find anything remarkable in the design.

Some notes:
There is a particularly large effort involved to get the pendulum swinging initially (easily forgotten)
Subsequent pushes on the pendulum could be compared to the output on the wheel of the bicycle, except that the lever stops moving when there is a small load on the wheel.

See for yourself and comments will be welcomed.

Will post the video in the next reply because this keeps failing. It 12Mb.

There is a little detail stated on: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html

QUOTE: "The best results were achieved with the lever axel and pendulum at the same height, and the base of the massive lever above the centre of mass, as shown in Figure 1."

From your picture I don't clearely see how this is achieved (you maybe carefully consider it though). However, I'm waiting for the clip and your comments.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Garethfine on March 07, 2007, 04:45:09 PM
OK here's a video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: barbosi on March 07, 2007, 09:28:51 PM
It's shown the system, and briefely the whole oscilating thing.
It's suppose to be in resonance, and in short periods from clip, to me it looks not "tuned" on the same frequency. It might need you to play with the arm lenght and/or weights.
I'm not to much in mechanic engineering but I think this was to reason to use the simulator in previous posts: to find an optimum.

Secondly, the chain mechanism is not a reductor (like the speed gears)? If so, it's normal to have less power and more speed.

Good luck and don't give up!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Hower on March 08, 2007, 11:10:23 PM
Hi all!

PESWiki updated the article about Milkovic's two-stage oscillator and here is what is new:

New video presentation of Veljko Milkovic - Universal Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator - A Mechanical Amplifier  - Professionally filmed and edited video includes English subtitles (35min)

Google Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6377655322209610872

or

download (38.3 MB, wmv)
http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-8)_Universal_two-stage_oscillator_full_presentation.wmv


Also there is a supportive statement by Peter Lindemann, D.Sc. (USA):
Opinion on the Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator (156 KB PDF)
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_Dr_Peter_Lindemann.PDF


Independent Replications:

Milkovic-Berrett Secondary Oscillator Generator
"The input coil consumes 1 amp at twelve volts at approximately a 20% duty cycle which comes to around 2.4 Watts. The output is between 200 and 300 mAmps, at between 14 and 15 Volts, which comes to around 3.5 Watts AC (sine wave)..."
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator


Discussion group:
Milkovic-Berrett Oscillator Generator
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PES_Berrett/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bitRAKE on March 09, 2007, 01:47:57 AM
Looking though my scrap bin I noticed there were sufficient parts to build one of these devices without too much expense. Beginning with the pendulum I wanted to reduce the losses due to friction, so I soldered a thin quarter inch steel belt (broken printer) directly to some berrings taking from an old hard drive. This berring is connected to the lever arm attached to a steel tube on a wood plank....

Isn't this setup similar to a double pendulum? Imagine you are sitting on the first ball of a double pendulum (which is our lever). I'm too lazy to bother with the math, but I'm fairly certain the Milkovic device is a constrained double pendulum.

...back to the model.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cchance on March 09, 2007, 06:13:59 AM
lol you do realize that the above pendullum is absolutely unbalanced and another thing that initial force isnt exactly a difficult thing to overlook for the sheer fact it only needs to be started once, after that its maintenance that needs to be maintained. which as has been shown by brians reproduction can be done quite easily even in his basic first try design he showed a 1.5x output of power and that was via extremely inefficent design he admits.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cchance on March 09, 2007, 06:25:31 AM
whats with people on here always trying to prove a law violation via simulations.... THE SIMULATIONS ARE BASED ON THE LAWS... dear god build the device and try it see if you can get it to work or improve it why the need to be pesimist. I think the best person is brian from the yahoogroup/peswiki atleast he put forth to recreate the device and actually showed it working as well as had stirling meat with him to show the device it works at 2.5w input and 3.5w output

stirling confirmed it only runs for about 15 seconds before he runs into issues each time but says its mostly because of the flimsy design and the many inefficiencys that brian already said he knows how to overcome ... such as a geared ratched  flywheel and the addition of more coils to get the voltage up as well as reducing friction and increasing stability throughout the device.

Want to know what makes this true in the simplest way and i can tell you its true straight from common sense swing the pendullum i can maintain a swinging pendullum with my pinky, however the opposing side of the lever as shown in the milkovic video can operate 10 flash lights at once i dont know about you but my pinky cant force down 10 flashlights atleast not without a hell of alot of effort and probably cracking my knuckle.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 09, 2007, 07:50:15 AM
Hi all.
Well this has been a very interesting topic up to now, save for the lack of working experiments. I've never posted before but you'll see why i decided to today.

You gotta see what my brother built last night. I went over and made a video of it and took some pictures. Very interesting ideed, but I have to say, we didn't find anything remarkable in the design.

Some notes:
There is a particularly large effort involved to get the pendulum swinging initially (easily forgotten)
Subsequent pushes on the pendulum could be compared to the output on the wheel of the bicycle, except that the lever stops moving when there is a small load on the wheel.

See for yourself and comments will be welcomed.

Will post the video in the next reply because this keeps failing. It 12Mb.

Many thanks for the effort,
but I must say, you did not convert the motion ofthe output very well
to the wheel.
There are many losses within the conversion via the bicycle mechanism, so it is
surely not very efficient...
Maybe you can attach at the up- and downgoing output shaft a few big magnets and
place itinside a coil and have a lamp as the load to the coil, so it is lighting
up via induction.
That would be a much better output test I guess.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 09, 2007, 08:32:04 AM
make sure the lever arm and the pendulum are in balance. in other words when the pendulum is at a dead stop the lever arm stays freely horizontal. must adjust weights accordingly.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Matech on March 09, 2007, 03:56:20 PM
Hi.
I'm the one who built the ugly bike contraption, and let me say: the night before I connected the pink bike I really thought it was a free lunch system (hardly slept). Once the pendulum got going it seemed there was no stopping it. Even with varying amounts of wheight on the arm and different spring tensions, you can move the arms' pivot point aswell if you like. I got to thinking how much power would be required to swing a 15kg pendulum and repeatedly pick up and put down an apposing 10kg weight. The fact is they are inter-linked. The 10kg weight on its way down helps the pendulum and the pendulum helps pick the weight up again. Trying to extract work does not work! Bump a 30 pound flywheel twice a second and you'll pump water through a 1/16 inch pipe or light some torch bulbs-I promise. If this is 12X OU why can a man with 50 degrees not make it self run?

M.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on March 10, 2007, 01:25:21 AM
Hi.
I'm the one who built the ugly bike contraption, and let me say: the night before I connected the pink bike I really thought it was a free lunch system (hardly slept). Once the pendulum got going it seemed there was no stopping it. Even with varying amounts of wheight on the arm and different spring tensions, you can move the arms' pivot point aswell if you like. I got to thinking how much power would be required to swing a 15kg pendulum and repeatedly pick up and put down an apposing 10kg weight. The fact is they are inter-linked. The 10kg weight on its way down helps the pendulum and the pendulum helps pick the weight up again. Trying to extract work does not work! Bump a 30 pound flywheel twice a second and you'll pump water through a 1/16 inch pipe or light some torch bulbs-I promise. If this is 12X OU why can a man with 50 degrees not make it self run?

M.

M,

Very good to see you make the effort to prove this out, good work.

However there are several issues with your unit that may have influenced
your conclusions to be negative. Keep in mind that Veljko does say repeatedly
that this is a two stage oscillator.

1) So the counter weight is very important... I had poor results with a spring.

2) In my examination of bicycle freewheels I found that most have a non instant
pickup when changing direction and the kind that go "click click" actually have an
inch or two of pedal travel before engaging. It is hard to see in the vid but there
appears to be some lost motion in yours?

3) you were only collecting one half of the stroke.

I do hope your next one will function better.
An improperly built unit is not proof that Veljko's design does not work

Regards,

Ron



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Matech on March 10, 2007, 07:46:55 PM
Hi Ron.

I didn't put the scheme to bed entirely, I built yet another simple contraption out of wood this time (easier to machine and mill etc). The balancing is incredibly simple, by moving the weight further or closer from the pendulum an "ideal" setup can be achieved.
All of the same problems again, the pendulum swings fantastically until the arm is even slightly tampered with. Milcovic implies that the pendulums' movement is not affected by interfering with the arm, this is not true. I rigged up magnets and coils and what not, the arm doesn't like to work at all.
It will be a big day for free energy enthusiasts when gravity can be exploited for uses other than the work it does for us at the moment.
Lifting a dead horse with the same gravity that prevents it from floating away will take some flogging.

M
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 10, 2007, 09:52:57 PM
Hi Matech,
what have been your weights and leverage relations ?
I think the unit would work best, if the pendulum is at least 2times as far away from the pivot point and thus the pendulum weight can be a bit more heavier than half the weight of the output side.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on March 10, 2007, 10:25:49 PM
Hi Ron.

All of the same problems again, the pendulum swings fantastically until the arm is even slightly tampered with. Milcovic implies that the pendulums' movement is not affected by interfering with the arm, this is not true. I rigged up magnets and coils and what not, the arm doesn't like to work at all.


M

M, this is all too true and is just common sense. If you disturb the pendulum by raising
or lowering it it requires more power to maintain the swing.

What I found is with the arm locked it runs on half the power. And this is another one of those things where small doesn't cut it. I am up to 40 pounds (18 Kg) and to me this is the where you can "just start" to get something out, before that it is lost in
the woodwork.

What I discovered in earlier experiments is that with about 120? of swing, practically
the actual weight of the pendulum is apparent at the end of the secondary arm.
With the 40 pound weight I can hold the bathroom scale under the 1:1 arm and
lift up to 30 pounds and the arm is still trying to work! ( it should be +/- 20 pounds
but the scale won't follow the motion) so there is work being done.

Now this is with a very limited amount of travel as can be seen in my second video.

Ron










Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on March 11, 2007, 07:02:59 AM
                              Hi !

A slow motion movie(we live in the youtube times...) of this "inexplicable" double mechanical oscillator in gravity and inertia,can show us,as on a paper,the related display on the time line of the swingings of the pendular mass and beam mass.

It's seems to be an asymmetric type game: a situation in which are implicated two "players" of unequal power:gravity and inertia.

The asymmetric game is advanced by the pendular motion with a balancing fulcrum/pivot.

With a fixed fulcrum,the pendular swinging is simmetrical in gravity and inertia.

The free balancing fulcrum of the pendulum on the balace beam(lever as a weighting machine of the dynamics...) introduces an asymmetric  fall/rise sequence.

The difference of the inertial reaction is transffered to the beam mass:as Milkovic shows,this is an one way power mechanism...or it works as a pendular motion absorber.

The gravity asks for  symmetry:this is the basis of a lever momentum relation.

The asymmetric swinging action asks for an asymmetric inertial reaction.

More(maybe we can see on a slow motion movie),it's possible to have some unequal swingings times(fall vs. rise).

If so,we have an anisochronal pendulum(a motion "prohibited" by inertia!?),so we play time factor in an "unusual" manner?an asymmetric compression technique?

A slow movie can tell us more...

               All the Bests!  /  Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on March 11, 2007, 05:58:13 PM
iacob,

You lost me after the "slow video"  lol

What I am coming to think is we should be studying the "balanced beam" or teeter
totter... the pendulum is well written up and easy to understand, but there is no
information on the resonant frequency of the 'beam', no handy dandy tutorials on
"how to maximize your teeter totter output"

Because this is where the action is. I mentioned that I had tried a spring... well the
spring has a tendency to absorb the force and not give it back! So if we look at the pendulum as just an oscillator... that balances and unbalances the beam... for free,
then we would be getting closer to the truth.

We have learned that if you extract work from a pendulum then you pay the price.
Throughout history the pendulum pivot point has been of robust construction to
prevent any vertical motion. But Veljko has shown us that there is a force there
that will allow a certain amount of work to be extracted from the pendulum...with
minimum penalty. As the pendulum swings up towards weightlessness, we allow the
pivot point to rise... as the pendulum swings down, adding the acquired force of
being restrained from its gravity fall, we allow the pivot point to descend.

This perturbation of the pendulum is almost benign, we pay only a minimum penalty.
But the balance/unbalance transfered to the beam is a useful byproduct that can be
utilized.

Hope this helps...

Ron







Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on March 11, 2007, 09:44:36 PM
Hi All,

I see a lot of downloads of my video... so perhaps an explanation is in order.

In the beginning I didn't know where to provide the input to the pendulum. I thus
chose the grand father clock model where the input is at the end of the stroke.
This required logic to not pulse as the pendulum swung up through the trigger window
but to only fire on the way down.

This worked well for Mk 1, 2 and 3... but with doubling the weight and allowing the pivot point to rise and fall required more power. I cut another trigger window at BDC so as to have the coil pulse twice per swing and thus doubling my input to 11 watts.

But I since find that perhaps the optimum firing position is at the bottom of the swing, in the words of JDJ...

"I believe that I detect in the writing of both Mr. Pugh and Mr. Berrett a fundamental confusion between the force of the output impulse and the amount of energy it might deliver.  Energy (or work) is the product of force and distance.  In fact Mr. Pugh has demonstrated this relationship by pushing his pendulum at the bottom of its swing.  At the bottom of the swing the pendulum velocity is maximum so that for an applied pulse of fixed duration, the force is applied over a greater distance at the bottom of the swing than at the top.  This couples additional energy into the pendulum from the driving coil resulting in higher swing amplitude."

So what I am saying is please don't copy my earlier work. For in the next model I
wish to do away with the current drive electronics and instead go for the Bedini
trigger. The logic behind this is the JB trigger is directionally sensitive and will only
fire the coil(s) after TDC... regardless of the approach direction. By TDC I mean
full coverage of the magnet by the cored coil. I will use the pulse motor as seen in the
video but wind an addition coil with a trigger winding and move one magnet station
so that the coils and magnets are at 180? and pulsed simultaneously, when the pendulum is at the bottom of its stroke.

Mark three, as posted, is just a report of my progress and can be seen as a
"don't do it this way" type machine.

Ron


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stevewal2 on March 12, 2007, 01:15:51 AM
Hi Ron,
I have to say I'm really impressed with your mechines and engineering skills. Great ideas too. Keep up the great work. I replayed your video several times. The bendi trigger definetely sounds the way to go.  :)

Steve.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on March 13, 2007, 01:53:28 AM
Thanks Steve...

you are too kind. It is always nice to see interest in Veljko's ideas.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on March 19, 2007, 02:17:18 PM
Have you seen the latest article on Barrett's replication of Milkovic Ideas!

He has achieved the rotation of a bycicle wheel at around 100 RPMs with a power sustaining impulse (for the pendulum) of 2 watts. As the video shows the wheel with a lot of magnets attached, I bet the next step is puting some coil around and generate power output, let's hope he achieves self sustaining, it looks really promising!!!



< http://pesn.com/2007/03/18/9500462_Berrett_pendulums/ >
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stevewal2 on March 19, 2007, 02:53:49 PM
Lol, I was just trying to post the same thing. Looks like you beat me to it. Yep it's looking pretty good. I'm not sure what he's using to drive the spinning weel on the last rig, but it looks like he's only transfering power on either the down or up stroke. This progect really needs specifically engineered parts, including a concave and convex rack and pinion to transfer torque to a double ratcheted flywheel on both the up and down strokes. This would help maintain the momentup to extract useful power.

cheers,
Steve.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dorro1971 on March 19, 2007, 07:43:13 PM
hi all,

Regarding ratchets and things, i feel it would be most efficient to use industrial one way clutches as these have almost no lost movement, also with two clutches and two gears you could utilze both up and down motion...


have fun

dorro
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: xnonix on March 22, 2007, 10:52:19 AM
Hi all, this is my first post but I'm here long time ago.

I have made a power study and here you are the results. All is done by simulation on wm2d.

I have simulated the hand giving a impulse to the pendulum by a motor and I have reads of power in each impulse.

Because we can have reads of springs power I have used a spring as our generator in the 2nd stage oscillator.

I compared power in and power out.

Test to put air resistance 0.1

Judge by yourselves.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: xnonix on March 22, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
I made another setup much more intuitive.

Now the hand stroke is simulated in another way.

Have fun!

PS: Sorry for correlative posts.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on March 22, 2007, 02:21:12 PM
Can you post a screen capture? I have only a demo of wm2d and I can't open files. With a screen capture I could try to reproduce it. I am really interested on this because I think somehow relates to the way to extract energy form magnetic fields interaction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: xnonix on March 22, 2007, 02:36:59 PM
Here you are a screenshot
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on March 22, 2007, 02:39:12 PM
 :o

Wow, increase of the power. Very Interesting!

I gotta get me a full version of wm2d

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pilatte on March 24, 2007, 11:20:58 AM
there is a mechanical way of transfering energy to a pendulum

search the web for "BOTAFUMEIRO" in use in the church "SANTIAGO de COMPOSTELA" in SPAIN
there is good explanation on the web

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1cdroms/spain/santiago_de_compostella/cathedral/interior/botafumeiro/index1.html


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 24, 2007, 09:28:40 PM
there is a mechanical way of transfering energy to a pendulum

search the web for "BOTAFUMEIRO" in use in the church "SANTIAGO de COMPOSTELA" in SPAIN
there is good explanation on the web

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1cdroms/spain/santiago_de_compostella/cathedral/interior/botafumeiro/index1.html




very nice first post :)
i will be working on wm2d on this one.
thanks,

peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: prajna on March 25, 2007, 04:53:05 AM
Nice thread, people.

I found this device rather interesting too and, having modeled it in wm2d, I found myself in a position that I have been in before when looking at bessler wheels and suchlike: looking at models and thinking "If only there was some way of controlling this part of the cycle we might get energy out". This time I managed to see how that could be possible.

The explaination is at http://DeclarePeace.org.uk/jhula/ (http://DeclarePeace.org.uk/jhula/).  Let me know if it excites you as it excites me.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pilatte on March 25, 2007, 11:48:57 AM
hello
if you want to see an application of the JHULA project, go to the web :
http://energie.cnrs.fr/rapport_ACI_2004-2006/ECD032.pdf
photo page 21
text in french (university of NANTES FRANCE)
project SEAREV
mathematical study of a twin oscillator
if you need some translations or informations, just send me a message
you are welcome
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: prajna on March 25, 2007, 02:50:28 PM
Thanks for that link, pilatte.  Very interesting.  They are working on a much more complex problem than the one I am proposing; predicting wave motion in order to optimise a hydraulic pendulum pump.  That paper has a number of very useful references. Jhula is much simpler and, I am sure, is much easier to analyse and predict than what they are trying to achieve.  I am suggesting that there may be no need for all that input energy from waves but that merely using the latch/un-latch mechanism ('optimal control' is the area of wave power research) it may be possible to increase the energy in the system for no (or negligable) additional energy input.  I think they (as I did for ages) haven't seen the wood for the trees.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: prajna on March 25, 2007, 06:28:08 PM
I've begun a new thread for the Jhula discussion (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2138.0.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2138.0.html)) so please reply on that thread with regard to Jhula.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bitRAKE on March 25, 2007, 06:55:35 PM
I started over with my design (will post pictures soon) - the first try is mostly just to find out how bad my understanding is.  :P Lever turned out well with very little friction or bounce and adjustable. Seems to transfer all the energy from one end to the other.

Currently, I'm tring to build a very good pendulum with the parts I have. My goal is something that is a couple pounds and requires milliamps. Having the motor on the lever seems to the way to go because of the verticle motion. An external push/pull would have to be syncronized in two dimensions or waste power.

Thinking about piezo electric effect because the lever needs to be maintained within a range because the oscillation are not limited by the dampening of the lever. Why waste this force through restraint? Instead the piezo material will be under pressure (weight of lever and pendulum) and generating power even when the lever does not appear to move.

(big THANK YOU to all the posters for sharing ideas and constructions - truely inspiring!)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on March 26, 2007, 07:29:31 PM
there is a mechanical way of transfering energy to a pendulum

search the web for "BOTAFUMEIRO" in use in the church "SANTIAGO de COMPOSTELA" in SPAIN
there is good explanation on the web

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1cdroms/spain/santiago_de_compostella/cathedral/interior/botafumeiro/index1.html




A most interesting post indeed, my thanks also.

Go to that middle link and set up the flash animation as follows...

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

Sine = on

vitesse angilainee = 1.7 omega 0

C de F = .04 Hz

with it running, grab the incense pot with the mouse and bring it up along side the
wheel... wait for the exact moment when the string to the pendulum is longest,
that is wit he the small circle closest to the pendulum pivot point... and release the
pendulum from the mouse...

It should run at over 90?, note this is from the perpendicular and is a total of 180?

Now we can see what the men pulling on the ropes are doing... they are shortening the rope as the pendulum swings down and releasing it as it flies up and out.

This is a "brute force" method of adding input to the pendulum and is not advantageous to our application. It does illustrate a principle of operation that in
our case the secondary beam is lowering the pendulum and thus lengthening the swing of our pendulum at the wrong time. This is a loss situation for our pendulum.

But it is interesting to speculate, once we have mastered this principle of shortening
the pendulum arm length on the down swing, on the development of the doubly
articulated pendulum, such as the "JHULIA" device. Most interesting....

Ron







 




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: prajna on March 26, 2007, 07:45:54 PM
Why complicate it, Ron?  The energy is already there in Jhula without messing around with the pendulum arm length.  Simply lock the relationship between the balance arm (counterweight) and the pendulum whenever the centre of mass is in a beneficial location and unlock it when it isn't. Look at Jhula again and tell me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on March 27, 2007, 06:44:36 AM
Why complicate it, Ron?  The energy is already there in Jhula without messing around with the pendulum arm length.  Simply lock the relationship between the balance arm (counterweight) and the pendulum whenever the centre of mass is in a beneficial location and unlock it when it isn't. Look at Jhula again and tell me if I am wrong.

prajna,

I looked at the link but I did not understand what was on the link... simple as that.

I looked at it again and must confess the concept is still beyond me....

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: prajna on March 27, 2007, 09:40:16 AM
I must admit, I nearly noticed it many times before with designs for bessler type wheels but it just didn't click.  Then I modeled the Mikovic system and thought "so what happens when you unrestrict the movement of the lever?" Doing so created the kind of chaotic movement that you see in the animation, and I watched it and watched it and I began to notice that there are times when you just want to 'lock' the pendulum to the counterweight because you know that will increase the speed.  Obviously, the pendulum would need to be released to swing again after it had added to the momentum.  It seemed that it would need some complex logic to figure out when to latch and when to unlatch the pendulum but I watched and I watched and I just knew that if I could sit in the pendulum I would know when to latch and unlatch.  And then I noticed that if I wanted the system to rotate clockwise then I would latch the pendulum as it was both a) to the right of the system and b) not moving with respect to the counterweight (if I was riding the swing I would feel weightless).  I would unlatch it when it reached the bottom of the cycle.

I will do some more work on the site so that it gives more opportunity to understand what I'm talking about.  You have to watch the animation (best is to load the wm2d model) untill you have a 'feel' for the relationship between the pendulum and the counterweight and then suddenly it will click; you'll know exactly what I am on about.  Anyway, I'll work on some more drawings that show the difference between a version that is free to rotate (as in the current animation) and that same system where the pendulum is locked with respect to the counterweight.

Once you see how it works it is so obvious that it is difficult to remember how much effort it took to notice it.  Rather like some optical puzzle that takes a while to see but once you have seen it you wonder how you could have failed to see it before.  Thanks for reminding me that it is not easy to recognise.  I'll do what I can on the web page to make it more obvious.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 27, 2007, 10:13:44 AM
i think i understand.
the pendulum locks itself after its first swing causing the massive lever to have enough kinetic energy to unlock the pendulum and give it a little kick to its initial position. a little circuit work maybe for timing? just a guess.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: prajna on March 27, 2007, 10:30:50 AM
Not quite, FE.  Certainly logic will be required (although I am testing a purely mechanical system at the moment that may work).  You see the counterweight spins and the pendulum swings. When the counterweight is spinning clockwise the pendulum will sometimes be assisting that spin and sometimes countering it.  The secret is to lock the pendulum to the counterweight whenever its momentum would assist the counterweight and to let it swing freely whenever its momentum would counter the spin.  I initlially thought that would require quite complex predictive logic that would need to effectively model the physics of the system but it turns out that by not being quite so greedy for getting the maximum out of the system we can simplify the logic to an almost trivial problem: we latch whenever the pendulum is to the right of the main axle and moving at the same speed as the counterweight and we unlatch when the pendulum reaches the bottom of its swing.  Actually, we can use more logic and optimise the energy increase but we should be able to tap enough energy with even this simple logic to get overunity.

By the way, can we continue this discussion in the Jhula thread.  It just saves people from having to wade through all the Mikovic stuff to read about Jhula and likewise it doesn't fill up this thread for those who are more interested in Mikovic.  Thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on March 29, 2007, 04:11:56 AM
Greetings friends!

I have enjoyed reading your posts for some time, both on this thread and others.  I have been working on HHO production for several months by combining patents.  BUT this lever pendulum idea has intriqued me. 

Here is a drawing of a simple, efficient, mechanical way to close the loop between the lever and pendulum.  If you do not like this idea, I had one more, using the lever to build pressure in a tank via a pump (psi) and then like hydraulics, using that to re swing the pendulum.  I think this drawing is the simplest and can be scaled down to desk size or so.  It need not take up the whole garage..LOL!

Thank all of you for your tenacity, and creativity. 

"With God all things are possible!"
BT
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 30, 2007, 05:10:30 PM
Hi,
Check this idea out. A lot more is posted in the "Working Smot ramp from Tom Ferko"  in this same overunity group.  Its my last posting with illustration of how two magnetic pendulums might be used to power a self runner device.

I thank "Sam" for pointing me to this group.

A runner ring magnet travels the balance beam between both pendulum mounted ring magnets.  Only repel or bounce mode is used.  The illustrated blocks keep both end ring magnets from possibly slamming the articulating balance beam ??   Might not even need them??

Tom
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 30, 2007, 05:11:47 PM
Hi All,

Here is an illustration.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 30, 2007, 07:25:05 PM
Hi All,

Check this possibility out also. The weight of the ? pendulum would have to be adjusted to have this work.    Both fixed magnets and the balance beam runner magnet all repell each other.

Tom
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 31, 2007, 04:02:58 AM
Hi All,

Here is my theory of how this might work.


Tom
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pilatte on March 31, 2007, 07:31:51 PM
Hi all,
may I have your opinion about the five drawing in the file annexed
this device is based on the principe of shortening a pendulum cable like the "botafumeiro" in SPAIN

please, have a look before on the web site : http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

there is a file .DOC attached to this post
the file contains five drawings of the device

please give me your opinion about this project because the test indicate         
NO OVERUNITY EFFECT
Pilatte
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gaby de wilde on April 02, 2007, 04:53:38 AM
It's starting to look like hamel's stuff.

I was also looking at the shape of the oscillation wave.

here is an idea of mine.

http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/gravity-engine
gabydewilde - gravity engine

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 02, 2007, 02:01:18 PM
Hi,

In any operating device to be most effecient the moving parts must be kept to a minimum.

One knife edge pivot point and one rolling ring magnet are keeping within that idea on my setup.

Tom
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Vladimir256 on April 03, 2007, 01:32:42 AM
When Milkovic's device is at rest, should the torque on the side of the pivot opposite the pendulum be greater or equal to the torque on the side with the pendulum? In other words when at rest should the device naturally lean towards the side opposite the pendulum or should the lever be balanced.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pilatte on April 03, 2007, 10:19:07 AM
When Milkovic's device is at rest, should the torque on the side of the pivot opposite the pendulum be greater or equal to the torque on the side with the pendulum? In other words when at rest should the device naturally lean towards the side opposite the pendulum or should the lever be balanced.
Hi vladimir,
I test several devices similar of milkovic's device.
but when I try to extract mechanical energy from the opposite side of the pendulum : there was a stop of the device (the balancing effect stops).
for more details, see my post "Pilatte reply #378 march 31 with drawings of my last device.
please, give me your opinion on what's wrong with that concept.
thanks
Pilatte
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on April 04, 2007, 12:52:54 AM
When Milkovic's device is at rest, should the torque on the side of the pivot opposite the pendulum be greater or equal to the torque on the side with the pendulum? In other words when at rest should the device naturally lean towards the side opposite the pendulum or should the lever be balanced.

Vladimir,

It can be either. If you start with a perfectly balanced secondary beam then the
output strokes will be somewhat equally matched.

If you bias the beam to one side then the torque is not evenly split and one side
of the stroke will be stronger than the other. A good example is the "hammer"
machine where more power is diverted to the hammer stroke.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Vladimir256 on April 04, 2007, 03:46:22 AM
Quote
It can be either. If you start with a perfectly balanced secondary beam then the
output strokes will be somewhat equally matched.

If you bias the beam to one side then the torque is not evenly split and one side
of the stroke will be stronger than the other. A good example is the "hammer"
machine where more power is diverted to the hammer stroke.

Thank you for your response. So you are saying that a better output will be achieved if the torque is greater on the output side of the beam?

Also, one possible way to test this device is to hold the beam stationary, raise the pendulum to a certain height, and measure how long it takes for the pendulum to come to a stop. Then compare that time with the time it takes to stop if the beam is free to move.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on April 05, 2007, 01:02:57 AM
Quote
It can be either. If you start with a perfectly balanced secondary beam then the
output strokes will be somewhat equally matched.

If you bias the beam to one side then the torque is not evenly split and one side
of the stroke will be stronger than the other. A good example is the "hammer"
machine where more power is diverted to the hammer stroke.

Thank you for your response. So you are saying that a better output will be achieved if the torque is greater on the output side of the beam?

Also, one possible way to test this device is to hold the beam stationary, raise the pendulum to a certain height, and measure how long it takes for the pendulum to come to a stop. Then compare that time with the time it takes to stop if the beam is free to move.

Vladimir,

What are you calling the "output side of the beam"? The beam has two strokes,
an up stroke and a down stroke, right? What I was saying was if you bias the
beam to be heavy to one side or the other then you affect the torque output
ratio of these two strokes.

What I found is if you let the beam flop up and down unimpeded it will kill the
pendulum. The beam must be doing work so as to restrict the beams motion.
With no load on the beam it will go into parasitic oscillations and play havoc
with the operation of the pendulum.

This is understandable when we remember le botafumeiro, where a group of men
provide input to the pendulum by raising the pendulum on the down swing!

So if we drop the pendulum on the down swing no good will come of it. But as
well it should be clearly understood that raising the pendulum on the down swing
is horrendously energy intensive. This is the worst case scenario for inputing
maintaining energy to the pendulum ...and this is your answer Pilatte. It will take all
or more of the secondary beam's energy to drive the pendulum from this input point.   

Ron





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Vladimir256 on April 05, 2007, 04:37:39 AM
Quote
What are you calling the "output side of the beam"? The beam has two strokes,
an up stroke and a down stroke, right? What I was saying was if you bias the
beam to be heavy to one side or the other then you affect the torque output
ratio of these two strokes.

By the output side I mean the longer side opposite the pendulum. Is the device more efficient if more weight is added to this side, or is that detrimental?

For those who are testing this device, remember: the potential energy input into the pendulum (in joules) is found by the formula mgh m=mass of pendulum (in kg) g=9.8 m/s h=height in meters that the center of mass of the pendulum is raised.

Although Milkovic's flashlight experiment was somewhat helpful, the part where he showed that the flashlight used for the input powered 9 others was unconvincing. He obviously input more energy then required to light the one flashlight on each stroke because his hand+the flashlight had kinetic energy when it struck the pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mollieman on April 05, 2007, 03:55:28 PM
Hello people, I am new to your site but have being checking out ou devices for some time now.
This one looks promising. Think about this, Use a powerful permant magnet for the pendulium, place an electromagnet at one end of the stroke, pulse the emagnet with a spring switch actuated by pendulium shaft, some adjustment would have to be done to determine the # of strokes the pendulium would freefall before the emagnet assist would be needed, but I think the final device could be used to power a generator.

ANYBODY WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN PERPETUAL MOTION HAS NEVER SEEN THE SUN!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: acp on April 05, 2007, 04:17:27 PM
Hello mollieman, welcome to overunity.com......

Can you draw a diagram to help explain your idea? A thousand pics are worth a single word etc. thousand er whatever it was...... a picture is worth a th...

Quote
ANYBODY WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN PERPETUAL MOTION HAS NEVER SEEN THE SUN!

Can you elaborate on this?

Regards

Albert
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on April 05, 2007, 05:12:57 PM
Quote

By the output side I mean the longer side opposite the pendulum. Is the device more efficient if more weight is added to this side, or is that detrimental?

For those who are testing this device, remember: the potential energy input into the pendulum (in joules) is found by the formula mgh m=mass of pendulum (in kg) g=9.8 m/s h=height in meters that the center of mass of the pendulum is raised.

Although Milkovic's flashlight experiment was somewhat helpful, the part where he showed that the flashlight used for the input powered 9 others was unconvincing. He obviously input more energy then required to light the one flashlight on each stroke because his hand+the flashlight had kinetic energy when it struck the pendulum.

Not so. His hand + the flashlight was not in contact with the pendulum, only
the sprung lever actually makes contact.

The secondary lever is akin to a teeter totter. two boys of equal weight at an
equal distance make it go with a modest kick off of one pair of legs.

One fat man and one small boy can still teeter totter if you adjust the fulcrum.

If you add too much weight to the output side in a Veljko device the pendulum will
not lift it.

The output side of the secondary arm has two strokes, an up and a down.

Think of it this way if you wish... the pendulum, on it's down stroke, lifts the
counter weight. Gravity lowers the counter weight on the pendulum's up stroke.

You can extract this resulting force equally on both strokes, or bias it to favor one
or the other stroke.

Ron








Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Vladimir256 on April 06, 2007, 03:58:17 AM
Quote
Not so. His hand + the flashlight was not in contact with the pendulum, only
the sprung lever actually makes contact.

Yes, but that lever is being hit with more force then necessary to light the light.

Quote
Think of it this way if you wish... the pendulum, on it's down stroke, lifts the
counter weight. Gravity lowers the counter weight on the pendulum's up stroke.

You can extract this resulting force equally on both strokes, or bias it to favor one
or the other stroke.

Does putting more torque on the side opposite the pendulum increase the up or sown stroke.

Also, can a pendulum on a string instead of a bar work just as well?
Title: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: brantc on April 07, 2007, 08:11:28 AM
I dont think I have made any posts in this forum, but I have to for this one. I have been studying gravity, a new model based on the aether. The reason why you get more energy out of this device is because it follows the true motion of a gravity impulse as predicted here.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/aethergrav.htm

Specifically this section,
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/aethergrav.htm#g4

This graphic describes the trues shape of a gravity impulse.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/cycloid3.jpg

As you can see no other pendulum design follows this shape except this one.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mollieman on April 07, 2007, 04:07:39 PM
Why are we all more concerned about the exact ou # of this machine than about the fact that the machine does what it is clamed to do?
Build the machine using a heaver lever and pendulium, for the pendulium I suggest a permanent magnet with a lift capacity of 200 lbs or more, behind the pendulium place another upright shaft to which is attached an electromagnet, operate the emagnet with a spring switch on a cam attached to the pendulium shaft. As the pendulium swings by the switch it will pulse the emagnet. The combination of the magnetic pendulium and the emagnet should keep the pendulium in motion.
A generator powered by the lever will keep the battery which powers the emagnet charged and produce electrical energy for household use.

REMEMBER THE KISS RULE AND TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Vladimir256 on April 08, 2007, 06:49:18 PM
For all those who are Milkovic believers:

Above the long arm of the lever place a wheel that will be hit when the lever rises. Attached to the wheel is a weight that rises when the wheel is turned. measure the input energy of the pendulum by PE=mgh (only raise the pendulum once and release it), then see how much energy the lever is able to put in the weight on the wheel by PE=mgh. If it is really overunity the output should exceed the input.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 12, 2007, 05:30:58 AM
Hi All,

I need opinions from those familiar with pendulum devices and ask if this device might have merit if the pendulum weight is adjusted properly.

It also depends if the external magnets can slide/glide over the Mu metal at the ends of the Mu metal arc plate. Then we go "mechanically" from an attraction mode to a repel mode in a split second.   That kicks the pendulum at the top of its arc swing. Happens on both sides.

 You will have to read all the literature about Mu Metal if you dont understand what I am talking about. A good search engine will take you there.


Tom
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: d3adp00l on April 12, 2007, 07:33:24 AM
It looks like pretty simple leverage to me. move the pendulum a greater amount than the end of the lever. figure the amount of potential energy stored in the pendulum by moving it transfer that through the ratio of the lever and there in is the amount of energy to do work. I would concede o/u if the end of the pendulum was attached to a perm magnet in a coil to charge another coil with Fe core to pull the pendulum at the right time to keep it all moving forever. A cap might be needed to store the charge with a pressure switch to close the circuit.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Kevlar on April 14, 2007, 09:08:39 PM
Magnetman,

A couple things I see as problematic with your design.
Mu metal is really not that good a magnetic shield and the amount of material needed would change the energy in the pendulum since the Mu arc is opposite the pendulum weight.  As you increase the pendulum wieght, you would also need to increase the magnet strength (size) which would require more shielding.  I think from your drawing, if you were to actually build this design you would see no effect on the pendulum as the repel force is equalized on each side, you are taking away energy and replacing it equally without adding anything extra to counter common friction.

Also note that if you interact with the pendulum outside it's pivot you are changing the force on the lever and the position at which the pendulum starts and stops it's swing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: jbowe on April 16, 2007, 04:46:23 AM
Very interesting concept.  Been reading thru the 13th but skipped to the last page.  I have a couple of thoughts to offer.  Not sure if they have been mentioned in the pages 14 thru 40.  Anyway,  could the pendulum weight be a magnet?  If so, it seems that an electromagnet could be positioned in a way to provide a timed shot of repelling force upon the pendulum during its descent thus giving it somewhat of a shove on its way down.  I perceive the electromagnetic force could be obtained via solar power via storage batteries eliminating draw from the device's output.

Thanks for listening.

jb
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 16, 2007, 07:14:13 PM
Hi All,

Thanks for your input on this device idea.  I constructed it and as you foretold- It did not work.  I dont ever give up--

I am currently working on a SMOT idea in the "Working SMOT RAMP from Tom Ferko" section in this same forum.  Uses two magnetic wheels revolving around an axle center pivoting 360 degrees.  If interested check that out on page 32.  Need input.


Tom
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nwman on April 16, 2007, 08:03:28 PM
Very interesting concept.  Been reading thru the 13th but skipped to the last page.  I have a couple of thoughts to offer.  Not sure if they have been mentioned in the pages 14 thru 40.  Anyway,  could the pendulum weight be a magnet?  If so, it seems that an electromagnet could be positioned in a way to provide a timed shot of repelling force upon the pendulum during its descent thus giving it somewhat of a shove on its way down.  I perceive the electromagnetic force could be obtained via solar power via storage batteries eliminating draw from the device's output.

Thanks for listening.

jb

Just to comment. If you use solar energy to power it then it become a solar generator and wasts some of the electrical energy on the mechanical parts of the setup. It would be more efficient to just pull the power off the solar cell. Keep thinking.

Tim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gilligan on April 17, 2007, 02:24:59 AM
heres a pendulum thought to ponder. P.S. I Hosted it on a free place so its spam heaven.
hope it works. :(
sorry I didnt see that you could host it here gonna try that also. :)
well it worked but I had to add the .avi to the end of the name. ???

http://www.vidiLife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=71B30578-377B-4296-A49A-5
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on April 17, 2007, 03:12:05 AM
hey gilligan,

looks like a dual osicilator to me.  did you ever buid it?  has anyone ever ran a simulation on something like that.  i wonder where all the power is going to go?

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: d3adp00l on April 17, 2007, 06:45:20 AM
I wish I was as good at animation as most of you guys seem to be. nice avi.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gilligan on April 17, 2007, 10:50:52 PM
hey gilligan,

looks like a dual osicilator to me.  did you ever buid it?  has anyone ever ran a simulation on something like that.  i wonder where all the power is going to go?

lol
sam
No sam I have not run a simulation on it.  I wish that guy with the MIT whiteboard would scribble it up and give it a simulation run though I'd be interested to see how it fares.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: wizkycho on April 18, 2007, 12:36:13 AM
Hi all !

When I first saw this pendulum oscilator system ... I was astonished that something so simple
has not allready been built and powering our houses from middle age to this day. This Veljkos oscilator system had one small flaw so it can be built every time and work every time predictibly.
 This resolution of mine is small contribution to great Veljkos work and toughts and now
we have complete easy to build solution to our energy crisis...till we think of electronic analogy
of this tremendous mechanicall system. Every house, even every flat can have it's own
self sustaining generator, that is why we came here. Many Thanks to Harty who invested so much energy, will, knowledge ...
 We can say that finaly we have a device that can make us independent from everydays non
productive jobs that not only wastes our time, energy ... these jobs we DO are actually helping
destroing all thats worth...even the planet we live on...we cannot even quit... This paradox must STOP, sooner the better.

greetings !

benzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Igor
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: wizkycho on April 18, 2007, 01:45:12 AM
hi again !

well maybe I didn't tought it through enough... seems like i have only shortened one side
(input arm) and if so the mass of input weight must increasse proportionaly to be able to lift output arm weight...
something else should be done to lower input altitude change in case when output allowed to
lift mass higher.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Vladimir256 on April 19, 2007, 03:48:42 PM
Wizkycho,

Why does your design have a second pendulum near the fulcrum?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gtarrant on April 19, 2007, 07:46:26 PM
A pendulum driven hammer..  8)
My first thought was slap a piezo crystal in there where that hammer strikes.
 ::)

 ;) Post results please :P

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on May 02, 2007, 01:38:48 PM
Hi All,

I found this interesting link referenced in Naudin's yahoo list.  It deals with harnessing secondary oscillations in connection with Milkovic dual mechanical oscillating setup.

http://www.keelytech.com/news.html

Gyula
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on May 02, 2007, 04:16:40 PM
Hello Gyulasun!

Thanks for this link! I found it really interesting. I liked it specially because the author makes a point that even if Milkovic is partly wrong in his theoretical approach, that's not to stop to research experimentally.

I know that one rather well known scientist performed a full lagrangean analysis of Milkovic ideas, and found nothing OU on it. But, the scientist did not discourage Milkovic and told him that experimentation was the only way to try new ideas, and encourgaed him to follow that path. The experimental approach is what can save the day, as theories are not cast in stone and can always change.

Regards.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gaby de wilde on May 03, 2007, 01:50:03 PM
I know that one rather well known scientist performed a full lagrangean analysis of Milkovic ideas, and found nothing OU on it.

You have a link for us chilean?

thanks.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on May 04, 2007, 01:36:00 AM
No link, sorry Gaby, I acquired the information in a discussion with this scientist in a closed forum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gaby de wilde on May 05, 2007, 12:06:01 PM
PFFFFFFF !!!!

And you believe such nonsense?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on May 05, 2007, 12:39:21 PM
lol
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gaby de wilde on May 05, 2007, 04:27:25 PM
I know that one rather well known scientist performed a full lagrangean analysis of Milkovic ideas, and found nothing OU on it.

but... but... there is nothing "full analysis" about Lagrange.

and... and... there is nothing "well known" about the scientist either?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_mechanics
Quote
This considerably simplifies many physical problems. For example, consider a bead on a hoop. If one were to calculate the motion of the bead using Newtonian mechanics, one would have a complicated set of equations which would take into account the forces that the hoop exerts on the bead at each moment.

The same problem using Lagrangian mechanics is much simpler. One looks at all the possible motions that the bead could take on the hoop and mathematically finds the one which minimizes the action. There are fewer equations since one is not directly calculating the influence of the hoop on the bead at a given moment. One of the key advantages of Lagrangian mechanics is that no vector quantities are involved in the calculations, which simplifies problems a great deal.

ROFL !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 05, 2007, 11:07:27 PM
Hi All,

I found this interesting link referenced in Naudin's yahoo list.  It deals with harnessing secondary oscillations in connection with Milkovic dual mechanical oscillating setup.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

Hans is correct in saying that the beam placed in resonant motion will start a
stationary pendulum in motion. This is because of the radius change of the
pendulum suspension. But this is the "only" case where the non feedback to the
pendulum can be dis-proven.

All that is required is a link from the beam to a vertical linear slide and no motion
of the secondary beam will induce the pendulum to swing.

In other words a very long secondary beam with short vertical travel will minimize
the radius change, thus reduce to zero any feedback from the secondary beam.

Take Care, 
Ron





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: JohninCR on May 06, 2007, 10:12:29 PM
While I believe the rig is nothing more than a lever, why not use simple voice coil motors to both extract the output and provide kicks to the pendulum?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on May 07, 2007, 08:42:41 AM
Hi all,

1. Just to let you know, ChileanOne and gaby de wilde, that I would be interested in the above mentioned Lagrangean analysis, if available in the near future. It is very hard for me to believe that energy can be taken out of a gravitational field using a ?Milkovic device? because I can not see from where this energy can be taken. But let?s say for now that the device is promising and, of course, I?m just a reluctant person. Am I?  ???

2. Gyula, the reference you gave (http://www.keelytech.com/news.html) is very interesting, especially in the first part but then it contains at least two major flaws: first ? ?There is no way any radio receiver can put a load onto a radio transmitter? YES, THERE IS. In fact, a radio receiver (or simply an antenna) IS drawing more power from the emitter. Of course, the coupling quickly fades out with the distance but the effect is still there. Second (I can not cite because it extends over several paragraphs) ?human ear is very sensitive; it takes a pressure of only 10E-5 N/m2 to hear a sound, so that?s why hearing a radio broadcast with a passive receiver is possible; it requires tiny amounts of energy. That?s being said, I would be circumspect in taking the article as reference?

3. The whole problem of Milkovic is reducible imho to a basic question. It is known (from experience as well as from Newtonian physics) that a pendulum is in principle weightless at its upper point and it weights more that its own rest mass when crossing the vertical, due to centrifugal force. This is just basics, don?t shot yet. Now, if you give me a truly variable mass, I can easily build an OU machine, by simply lifting the said mass (and thus investing energy) when it is easy and then by letting it going down and perform work (and recovering energy) when it is heavier! If the mass would follow a variation like m=m0*sin(2*pi*f*t), like in a stationary pendulum, the OU device would work. But?

4. If you followed the above, Milkovic is about a device that has a ?variable mass? on one side (on left side, in all of his practical devices but water pump). The problem with that variable mass is that it is no longer zero once you try to lift it. That?s due to inertia, of course. Then, the second problem is that it will no longer weight more than its rest mass once you let it drop free. I don?t know if most can follow me but to be short, the mass is not truly variable and in any case it does not follow a sinusoidal function. So, the analysis may be relevant in makings things clear for us? And that?s why I started with 1 above.  ;)

Yours truly,
Tinu
?In the absence of light, dark prevails?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on May 08, 2007, 01:02:02 AM

2. Gyula, the reference you gave (http://www.keelytech.com/news.html) is very interesting, especially in the first part but then it contains at least two major flaws: first ? ?There is no way any radio receiver can put a load onto a radio transmitter? YES, THERE IS. In fact, a radio receiver (or simply an antenna) IS drawing more power from the emitter. Of course, the coupling quickly fades out with the distance but the effect is still there. Second (I can not cite because it extends over several paragraphs) ?human ear is very sensitive; it takes a pressure of only 10E-5 N/m2 to hear a sound, so that?s why hearing a radio broadcast with a passive receiver is possible; it requires tiny amounts of energy. That?s being said, I would be circumspect in taking the article as reference?

Hi Tinu,

Thanks for your comments.  I mentioned the link because its owner seems to deal with Milkovic's device in a more scientific approach than most of other members here or elsewhere. I mean he tries to give reasons why he thinks the explanations / video demos from even Milkovic or from others are mainly based on show-like ones and I look forward to his approach with having two counter-rotating weights around a common axis. He may also fail to come out with proving the setup as overunity though, I do not say it is a 100% solution, only experiments can give answers. 

I think Ron's explanation/suggestion is ok to circumvent Hans objection but there is more to it.

I respectfully disagree with your mentioning the two 'flaws', I do not think they are flaws.  Why?  Because I think a transmitting antenna radiates its input power into the space it is placed in, it dissipates almost all of its input energy into the space wave impedance (around 377 Ohms) and regardless of the number of receiving (resonant or non-resonant) antennas placed in the same space / room around it, it radiates the power fed to it non-reciprocally: I do not think you could measure any loading effect on the transmitter by increasing the number of receiving antennas up to practical limits.  Of course when placing the rec antennas I assume considering NO nearfield but far field propagation of the waves so that unwanted coupling due to physical closeness of tr/rec antennas is not an issue.

I imagine all this as a current source works: whatever load you place on it the current does not change...  well, in practice this is within component limits of course.

On your second issue with the tiny amount of needed energy: it is true but above I meant on practical limits of the number of antennas can go up to thousands or millions, depending on the wavelength and still you will hear info with the same strength... there will be no load on the transmitter...   

I do not state that you can surely achieve overunity with using a great number of antennas for collecting more received power from a given transmitted power, because I do not know it for sure yet,  I say only that there is no loading effect on the transmitter when doing so.  A good (but rare) example on the lack of feedback between action-reaction.

Regards
Gyula
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on May 08, 2007, 09:20:39 AM
Gyula,

Please do not take it personally but I really don?t get it. The strength of the receiving radio signal is in any case not the same whether a single or one million antennas. That?s why radio signals can be shielded by a metallic/conductive net for instance, which is the exact equivalent of ?billion of antennas?. Behind the shielding you will not hear a thing or in the best case ? if you want me to be very rigorous- if you hear something it will be crystal clear that any signal you may detect there is severely attenuated. Why? ?

Ok, now you will probably tell that we are taking about antennas placed on the surface of the same sphere and not about antennas placed one behind the other. Ok but it is even simpler then. Surface of the sphere is known, energy flux is known and power is thereby also limited and equal to the product of first two.

Even more important, by placing a shielding net in the proximity of a radio transmitter, the power demand of the transmitter will increase, if allowed by its own electronics and by the power source. That?s plain experiments I?ve conducted. Almost anyone can reproduce them with basic equipments. And I?ve seen no limits by increasing the distance but strictly due to the detection sensitivity of the power taken by the transmitter. If one can lower this detection sensitivity at extremely low (practically impossible) levels, it will detect that you tune your radio receiver no matter what the distance is.  It is nothing more than resonance between the transmitter and receiver(s), I agree, but for me in order to digest something that I am presented on public domain, I have to see that the author is at least familiar with the field in discussion and that he/she does not make claims that are beyond what are real and already known facts. Otherwise, white and black will quickly become gray and not everyone is able to make the difference?

As about the impedance of free space, it is constant (according to existing and accepted theories), it is variable even in vacuum according to some new ideas (i.e. www.blazelabs.com ? one of the best page I?ve seen around; I?m not affiliated to it in any way but I highly recommend everyone to have at least a quick lecture), but it is clearly variable and just in approximation taken to be constant for others media than pure vacuum, that approximation being made strictly to make our life easier. The approximation works well for air but it doesn?t work that well (actually is far from that, failing to work at all) for water ? just to mention one other media.

Point 2 of my previous message was the least important. Sorry to digress on it.
What about 3 a 4? At least they are on topic, and I was hoping that it will shed some light on Milkovich device for those less familiar with mechanics and gravitation?

Respectfully,
Tinu
?In the absence of light, dark prevails?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dact on May 22, 2007, 05:36:45 AM
 :-[

I'm a newcomer here, and only watched the video once, but was not impressed. I assume the lever arm was balanced with the pendulum in place. Ok, so there is equal weight on both sides of the fulcrum. When the pendulum swings and reaches it's farthest advance, it weighs NOTHING, so the other end of the bar FALLS. Nothing but gravity here!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cyberdust on May 23, 2007, 02:17:12 PM
Hello? It does not only look fake, but it is a joke. What does it mean power (symboled with F in the original diagram) becomes zero, and so it weights less than the other side and the other side gets havier and you have power out put, soory but that's physics that even kids in kindergarten know better. A pendulum gains and loses energy, not F (gravity). It sould be marked with P in all the pictures. And zero energy does not mean zero gravity. It is only exchanging potential energy with kinetic energy. ?No hammer will ever jump up and down. The right side has the equal weight as the left side. No energy gain at all. I hate to repeat myself, bbut all the video is a joke aimed to simpletons. Now that typed, I demand my 2 cents be given back to me for the honour I granted you to enlighten from all your delusions.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on May 23, 2007, 05:15:07 PM

Yes, I?m a bit skeptic too. After many years of device testing, it is not normal, no matter how limited funds are, for Milkovic not being able to conduct better measurements and, even worst, to mix forces, power and energy.

But as skeptic as I am, I still believe that there is something worth to be investigated there. After all, there are at least two experiments partially documented, besides the dynamo-lights: one is that in comparison with other oscillators and the other one ? even more relevant from energetic point of view ? is with pistons. Look again please at http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement1.JPG
and table given in http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement3.jpg
Now, for the first one, it is not clear that the initial potential energy was taken into account neither the fact that drag effects on pistons are more significant at low forces. But for the second one, why is it oscillating the system for 78 cycles as compared with 37 and 21?!!!
Of course, it is still possible that some other hidden factors are behind the above values, but still the ratio is more than two!
What about these two experiments? Can you dismiss them too at ease?

So, Dact and Cyberdust, let me say these as a physicist, hopefully an open-minded one: According to the existing laws, our understanding of universe is very limited. The understanding based on average formal education is even more limited. For instance, most of us were told that since the gravitational field is conservative, no energy can be extracted out of it using a closed mechanical setup. This is not always correct. At a deeper analysis, even classical mechanics predicts that a gyroscope is able to extract energy from the rotational movement of Earth. (Don?t get too excited ? the device is very impractical, almost impossible to be built). But the functional equivalent of this ?free gravitational generator? is a toy you can have and play with ? Power Ball. (Sorry ? I have no intention to advertise).
My 2 cents in return: It would be so easy to say that nothing can be done but if we consider that no one is able to define the mechanism of gravity as of today, would it be really wise?

No offense intended, just thoughts for hungry minds.
And welcome aboard!

Tinu
?In the absence of light, dark prevails?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dact on May 23, 2007, 08:34:53 PM
To both Cyberdust and Tinu:

Thank you both for your replies. My short post was aimed at reinvigorating this debate, and was based only on initial observation and an instant analysis and theory, without any benefit of formal training in any persuasion other than classical electrical theory. That is why I enjoy this site, and others like it, so much, as it makes me feel like Isaac Newton, living in a world of the unknown, with apples falling all around. Unlike Newton, however, I have the benefit of knowledge and answers from individuals such as you, learned thinkers who are willing to share their knowledge and ideas through forums like these, which I am sure will quickly lead to the answer we are all looking for. My job is only to ask questions, of which I have many.

Here's one:

What IS the weight of the mass at the end of the pendulum at the end of it's swing?

Dact
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cyberdust on May 23, 2007, 09:34:07 PM
The weights are always the same, and that?s the clue to the mystery. If one looks carefully, the right side is shifted when the left side with the pendulum weight is in its highest position. That means, if the pendulum is stretched, the left side times distance is ?heavier? than the right one, and so it is shifting the right side, whereas when the pendulum is moved to its right highest position, the right side wins the game with the rods. You have always to apply exactly the force needed to shift the pendulum to its highest position. That is exactly the amount of energy needed to shift the right side. It would be quite easier if professor Linkovic used some banal instruments like scales to write down all the forces that are applied to the rods, if he measured distances etc and gives us full details of his calculations and his results, instead of claiming such nonsense. Playing with flashlights do not satisfy our curiosity.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 24, 2007, 01:50:29 AM
The weights are always the same, and that?s the clue to the mystery. 


Let me help you with your understanding.

Hold a 10 Kg pendulum by its pivot point (axle)
Have your assistant lift the pendulum to the three or nine o'clock position.

Your are right, the pendulum will still weigh 10 Kg's... but how much weight will you
feel?  next to NONE, right.

Have your assistant drop the pendulum... when it reaches the bottom how much will
it weigh? still 10 Kg's?  What I am saying is, you might not even be able to stop it
because it could easily double it's stationary weight.

But to be practical a 180? swing requires a lot of energy. 120? is reasonable and
the weight change at the pendulum pivot point approximates the "standing" weight
of the pendulum, ie: 10 Kg's in our example.

So on each upward swing, left and right, of the pendulum, the pivot point on the secondary arm experiences a minus 5 Kg's of force...and on the bottom of the swing, plus 5Kg's of force, in our example. The force needed to maintain the pendulum's swing is relatively the same in any case. But it is the weight change on the pivot
point, that is mounted on the secondary arm, that allows the secondary arm to do work.

Ron




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dact on May 24, 2007, 06:22:14 AM
 :) Thanks for the explanations! My initial, brief observation of the video only focused on the pivot point, and my conclusion that there was no "apparent" downward force on that spot at the end of either swing, which I admit, I visualized at the horizontal.

One more question. Does the initial energy input derive from the potential energy in the ball before dropping it, the kinetic energy exerted to lift it, or a combination?

Dact
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on May 24, 2007, 08:58:27 AM
If one looks carefully, the right side is shifted when the left side with the pendulum weight is in its highest position. That means, if the pendulum is stretched, the left side times distance is “heavier” than the right one, and so it is shifting the right side, whereas when the pendulum is moved to its right highest position, the right side wins the game with the rods. 


Cyberdust,

This is not correct. It?s precisely opposite: the right side is shifted when the left side with the pendulum weight is in its LOWER position. This happens due to the centrifugal force acting on the swinging pendulum. When the pendulum weight is in its highest position, the right side (the hammer) simply begins to fall under the gravity due to its own weight.

Static analysis of forces involved and their associated angular momentum is not enough to explain the device. Then analysis became soon very complex because the pendulum oscillates in a variable-accelerated reference system. One component of the acceleration is given by gravity (g) and it is well known but then there is the other one, adding to or subtracting from g, given by the lever movement. And the movement of that lever is not easily analyzable because the lever is stopped suddenly when the hammer reach its lower point. This involves a sudden change in acceleration which is felt by (is transmitted to) the pendulum; in theory this is a kind of discontinuity (infinite acceleration) but in practice the acceleration must have a finite value. Nonetheless, it may be muuuch larger than g, thus substantially affecting the pendulum.

Up to my understanding to this day, a significant part of the ?mystery? may be hidden in this very short collision between the hammer and its anvil. Otherwise, all we have there is a system composed of two classic oscillators.

For other questions, please have a look on my former post on the previous page. Here is an excerpt of it:
3. The whole problem of Milkovic is reducible imho to a basic question. It is known (from experience as well as from Newtonian physics) that a pendulum is in principle weightless at its upper point and it weights more that its own rest mass when crossing the vertical, due to centrifugal force. This is just basics, donÂ’t shot yet. Now, if you give me a truly variable mass, I can easily build an OU machine, by simply lifting the said mass (and thus investing energy) when it is easy and then by letting it going down and perform work (and recovering energy) when it is heavier! If the mass would follow a variation like m=m0*sin(2*pi*f*t), like in a stationary pendulum, the OU device would work. ButÂ…

4. If you followed the above, Milkovic is about a device that has a ‘variable massÂ’ on one side (on left side, in all of his practical devices but water pump). The problem with that variable mass is that it is no longer zero once you try to lift it. ThatÂ’s due to inertia, of course. Then, the second problem is that it will no longer weight more than its rest mass once you let it drop free. I donÂ’t know if most can follow me but to be short, the mass is not truly variable and in any case it does not follow a sinusoidal function. So, the analysis may be relevant in makings things clear for usÂ… And thatÂ’s why I started with 1 above.  ;)

Restpectfully,
Tinu
"In the absence of light, dark prevails"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 25, 2007, 02:59:27 AM
:) Thanks for the explanations! My initial, brief observation of the video only focused on the pivot point, and my conclusion that there was no "apparent" downward force on that spot at the end of either swing, which I admit, I visualized at the horizontal.

One more question. Does the initial energy input derive from the potential energy in the ball before dropping it, the kinetic energy exerted to lift it, or a combination?

Dact

Hi Dact,

I am not sure as I follow your question. Treat the pendulum as the motor that drives the secondary arm. As the pendulum cycles it imparts a plus minus force on the secondary arm.This causes the secondary arm to oscillate... within the confines of it's stops. The secondary arm is just a teeter totter. The springs (or the striking of the hammer) return some energy to reverse the motion... the little feet that push off, if you wish.

The pendulum requires a source of input, the one flashlight for example, but the
input is least when the secondary arm is stationary. Increasing the arm travel
requires increasing the input to the pendulum.

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html
 
This is a fun site to play with and shows that the monks were actually raising the
pendulum at the bottom of the stroke. This will put the pendulum over the top!
Unfortunately we are allowing the pendulum to drop at the wrong time... thus we
should not over do the arm movement.... or we pay a penalty.

Ron


 




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on May 26, 2007, 02:49:56 AM
I just want to add something to this discussion, but I've moved on from researching this device. During my months of virtual replication and emulation of the device I discovered several examples where a pendulum attached to this secondary oscillating arm would swing for longer and with greater kinetic energy then a duplicate pendulum. That is a rather interesting observation since the pendulum with more parts/friction/resistance was supplied the same starting kintic energy.

I theorized that the reason for this excess energy was improbability...

Let me explain:
The probability of the horizontal arm being at 0d with 0ke and the vertical pendulum arm being at 0d with 0ke is far less than a single vertical arm reaching 0d with 0ke. Small ammounts of gravitaional potential enery were taken from the horizontal arm when its <> 0d and the vertical arm == 0d, and visa versa.

I know thats a rather sloppy explanation, but one day I'll draw out some diagrams to further explain it. More importantly though... I was not able to find an example that provided anything close to 100% of efficiency, but I did find drastic efficiency improvements when using a duped pendulum to compare run times/input energy.

Remember though... This device is in no way even 100% efficient! If it was even 100% efficient the pendulum would never slow, and if it was 1200% efficient the pendulum would swing faster and higher the longer it ran. So clearly... The title of the thread is wrong. Altho it can make a pendulum 2x-3x More efficient. AKA runs 2x-3x longer...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 26, 2007, 05:06:41 AM
I was not able to find an example that provided anything close to 100% of efficiency[/b],

Dingus

There is no simulation program that models Veljko's pendulum.
Therefore your results are inconclusive... garbage in equals garbage out.


"*"This device is in no way even 100% efficient! If it was even 100% efficient the pendulum would never slow, and if it was 1200% efficient the pendulum would swing faster and higher the longer it ran."*"

But what is your method of extracting energy from the secondary beam and how are
you reapplying it to the pendulum? I posted pictures and video of my on going
experiment.... where are yours? How can you post conclusions when you have no
valid data?

What you are saying with that statement is you haven't a clue as to how this works. 

Ron
Title: Transmitter / Receiver arguement
Post by: Earl on May 26, 2007, 06:55:26 PM
I believe this arguement does not apply to loadless mechanical feedback.

One can always insert between transmitter and antenna a magneto-ferrite electrical device called an isolator or circulator.  These are widely used for UHF, microwave and optical transmitters.

It should be obvious that an infrared transmitting diode is not affected by any infrared receiving diode.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Monk on May 29, 2007, 07:51:39 AM
I joined this forum with the entire intent of discussing this thread.

I've looked into cold fusion (too much power needed to make deutirium), Nuke power (currently a second year nuke student, too many licenses needed for that), HHO gas (just a fossil fuel knockoff really).

But this one gravity machine (to me) seems to have alot of promise.

I dont think the issue is whether or not the pendulum keeps going, but the energy needed to move the pendulum versus the energy gained on the other side.

The pendulum will stop, thats a given. But is the energy output enough to keep the pendulum running.

I plan to build one, and hook the thing up to a generator, and have a solenoid kick the pendulum at every return (maybe, depending on the voltage output I can get from the generator.)

Am I positive this will work... Nope, but I have high hopes, and thats what everyone in this forum has, is high hopes for unity/overunity. I am hoping that I could get overunity so I can put a pump on the end of this bad boy and run a moped on compressed gas. How awesome would that be?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sevich on May 29, 2007, 01:12:28 PM
I agree with i_ron

In my opinion this, "Milkovic" thread is GROSSLY OVERRATED!! .......we need more proven substence.......SOMEBODY, PLEASE!!! ....   :D


No offence Mr Milkovic
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sevich on May 29, 2007, 01:22:19 PM
..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mrgalleria on May 30, 2007, 01:45:39 AM
Aloha All, first post.
I think Milkovic gave all of you a good spanking. You missed the point entirely! If you watch the entire video carefully, you should note several things.
1. The video is not for scientists. The reasons should be self apparent from the beginning and I am not going to bother to explain it if you don't already understand.
2. Everybody is talking about the pendulum, with scientific confusion and contradiction. Did anyone notice near the end what the real truth of the device was or was it only me? It was the most elegant and simple example of alternating current. This primitive device is just a window to the truth about energy and gravity. Maybe some of you just think you know so much that you cannot understand that.
3. Look at the patents and drawings at the end, this man is way past the simple device he presented.
4. Look at his solution for unemployment. This fellow is so crafty that he showed this solution to distract governments, and big business from considering his work a threat.
If any of you are so darn smart as you would leave us to believe, then take this primitive device to the next level. Learn what it is telling you about how nature uses the limitless energy of gravity.
Sorry to be so harsh, just cut it out will you.
Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on May 30, 2007, 08:11:36 AM
I guess it has been proven scientifically this oscillator works:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.350 (below you can see power output graph which is 10 times higher than the input graph)

Or does somebody think Working Model 2D is not a scientific application based on newtonian laws?

So, I guess the question is closed. Mega-Corporations now have to 'invent' new laws that do not allow such use of gravity, in order to continue world-wide slavery.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mrgalleria on May 30, 2007, 11:17:27 PM
Aloha,
Good point. But Nature uses gravity so well. Rivers offer a good example of energy transmission. Moving huge amounts of water requires huge amounts of energy, yet we make the mistake of taking that for granted as we watch a river flowing. Instead think about how much real energy it takes to move that water, and then ask yourselve "where does that real energy come from?" Milkovic has shown us what gravity energy is, and how it is transmitted. Gravity should now be renamed electro-gravity as gravity is electricity.
The water in the river has taken the electro-gravity that is moving vertically and transmitted it into energy working horizontally. Yet there is so much excess available energy, that if you stand on a boat in the river your body weight does not change. It seems that you should be lighter, as some of the energy (electro-gravity) is being used by the water.
With this knowledge, we can move forward developing devices that capitalize on electro-gravity. Since gravity is electric, then anti-gravity is electric. Many things in Nature exhibit anti-gravity effects- notibly gases. When we understand the electrical differences between the gravity and anti-gravity elements, we can achieve anti-gravity, or better- controlled gravity (electro-gravity).
Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on May 31, 2007, 06:22:31 AM
Gravity as electro-magnetic force is an old idea it seems, but mainstream physics does not think so. As far as I know, general relativity postulates gravity to be an effect of mass, and it does not relate to electricity in any direct way. (it is that bad)

Of course, I think otherwise. I perceive our earthly gravity as an everlasting electricity flow of ultra low (or zero-constant) frequency, and of considerable power (we people and various physical objects are particles like electrons which "flow" in the earthly gravity field). The only problem is to create a resonator that "connects" to that flow, and which oscillates with it. Of course, you can't do that with antenna or a cable, as you have to have a difference in potential while there is no considerable difference in electrical potential of gravity-electricity in a given small area of space. So, the only way to extract work out of gravity-electricity is to create a mechanical resonator that converts its motion into electricity, which converts energy of a vastly larger system (earthly gravity) into a small closed electrical system composed of generator, battery and various load.

"That's wishful thinking" one would like to say? But one have to prove the model posted by xnonix is wrong, and that Working Model 2D is wrong as well in that respect.

Beside that wind generators are an example of devices that convert energy of a larger system into energy of a closed system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aparodox2003 on May 31, 2007, 07:42:01 AM
cevich is right, this looks like it runs off the same idea as a teader-todder--where the fat guy sits 10 feet away from the pivot point and the child sits 5 feet.  If this is OU then so is the pry-bar i use to loosen nuts on my engine, If i tried to use my fingers it would never let loose but with a pry-bar i can break it in 2
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on May 31, 2007, 08:20:59 AM
cevich is right, this looks like it runs off the same idea as a teader-todder--where the fat guy sits 10 feet away from the pivot point and the child sits 5 feet.  If this is OU then so is the pry-bar i use to loosen nuts on my engine, If i tried to use my fingers it would never let loose but with a pry-bar i can break it in 2

No, it is not similar. The fat guy does not rise as high as the light guy falls... While in this oscillator you can rise 25 kg like you are rising 2.5 kg to the same height. Of course, as xnonix model suggests, you first have to put the system into a surplus resonance (it takes about 10 seconds for his model - note that this does not necessarily increase the amplitude of the beam (spring limits it), but it does increase traction power of the beam, and it can't be limited without stopping the pendulum).

So, the power comes from 'out there'.. The good analogy would be an object made of a non-conductive material which nevertheless may carry an electrical charge. So, the system gains charge seemingly out of nowhere.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mrgalleria on May 31, 2007, 09:37:58 AM
Aloha,
aparadox- your pry bar is a more effiecient way to do work with your arm vs your fingers, of course no one will argue with that.
You seem to need some help understanding what Milkovic is teaching. Maybe this will help.
I am going to assume that as a child you did swing on a home swing set. Do you remember the effect that occurs that makes swinging so facinating? It's that weightless sensation you get at that point where the swing reaches the end of travel- sometimes you float off the seat. Well, at that moment you are not weightless, it's just that the energy that was pulling you downwards has been transfered up the chain, across and down the pipes which form the structure of the device, and that energy can be so great that it will lift one or more pipes off the ground momentarily, at the precise moment you feel weightless. It cannot be a mechanical effect (as with the pry bar). It is instantanious, quick like electricity.
Hydro-electric plants draw fractions of energy from movingwater via mechanical means. That proves that electricity is in moving water, and I previously explained how it got there. It is that simple, as it should be, as we knew it would be.
Now that we have a very basic understanding of energy transfer. We have to force ourselves to mentally abandon all of the current and past thinking (last 100+ years) of how we are using mechanical means of accomplishing work. Then we will have access to energy that is clean, harmless, and unlimited
Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mrgalleria on May 31, 2007, 09:59:06 AM
Aloha,
Pardon me. I wrote "of how we are using mechanical means of accomplishing work" when I should have written " of how we are using mechanical means of producing energy."
Aleks- you said "the power comes from 'out there'". Please, it's no great mystery. In fact, it's way to simple. It's just electro-gravity. You have been living in it all your life. Like wind, you cannot see it, but you see it's effect. A wire can have 200 volts in it, can you see the electricity? The electricity does not harm the wire, and it is not visable. Like gravity, electro-gravity.
Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on May 31, 2007, 10:11:58 AM
Aleks- you said "the power comes from 'out there'". Please, it's no great mystery. In fact, it's way to simple. It's just electro-gravity. You have been living in it all your life. Like wind, you cannot see it, but you see it's effect. A wire can have 200 volts in it, can you see the electricity? The electricity does not harm the wire, and it is not visable. Like gravity, electro-gravity.
Bill
Surely I understand the situation. Electro-magnetic field is a given thing: we live in it, we are particles compared to it - this is a given. We are subject to gravity due to EM field that builds in and around our bodies, and because our bodies stop the natural earthly field from flowing - thus we have a differing potential than the field itself - and that's why we are attracted (field tries to move us out of its way).

But I'm trying to reason how the charge (energy) accumulates in this oscillatory system. Newtonian physical model proposed by xnonix shows it does accumulate in at least 10x amount compared to the input.

(sorry to be a bit off-topic, but such view on things may describe a recently increasing frequency of people spontaneous combustion evidences - it is scary since it is an uncontrollable thing, but nevertheless such event is possible given energy from the earthly gravity can be accumulated - it is just possible that some unfortunate earthlings open a door for such accumulation within their bodies - hypothesis of static electricity accumulation being a reason of combustion supports this view).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on May 31, 2007, 06:45:42 PM
What also puzzles me in the xnonix model is that power on the spring end grows even after the "hand"'s impulse - by about 10% before the next impulse arrives (power on the beam should dampen with time - not increase even if for a short duration)... Exactly this fact looks anomalous - everything builds around it I think.

Also, as far as I understand, the spring in the model presents the active load (it is the same as creating torque in a motor generator out of a linear movement of the beam), and still it does not stop the power from increasing. While nay sayers here insist that the system will stop as soon as you will start drawing the power.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Maybe it is better to create xnonix model - not exactly 'wheel' or 'ball' mass model? xnonix model consists of straight poles of given weights. Also the point of application of impulse to the pendulum may be important. Motor driving pendulum and sharing base with the beam may not be the best approach. An alternative would be a motor mounted on the ground that pulls pendulum via stiff rope by winding it on a pole a bit and then releasing the force, or also unwinding the rope back while the pendulum travels down. The rope being light should not be a limiting factor to the pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aparodox2003 on May 31, 2007, 08:54:38 PM
Ok, what i was trying to say is (imagin the device as a teeder todder-the fat guy on one end about 5 ft from the pivot point the light guy to componsate for the big guy now has to sit 10 ft from the pivot point so they can play the game)  Now if the light guy dosn't want to use his feet to go up and down, he can just move back and forth from his position.  That concludes the teeder todder part...........If he wanted to exert less 'work' to create the teeder todder effect he would us a secondary pivot point in this case he takes advantage of gravity by hanging from a rope and swinging on it (just like when we were kids-I went to the park ;D), and just like this machine my dad only had to give me one underdog and i could go for a few minutes.
The fat guy does not rise as far a the small guy falls because he is closer to the pivot point.


cevich is right, this looks like it runs off the same idea as a teader-todder--where the fat guy sits 10 feet away from the pivot point and the child sits 5 feet.  If this is OU then so is the pry-bar i use to loosen nuts on my engine, If i tried to use my fingers it would never let loose but with a pry-bar i can break it in 2

No, it is not similar. The fat guy does not rise as high as the light guy falls... While in this oscillator you can rise 25 kg like you are rising 2.5 kg to the same height. Of course, as xnonix model suggests, you first have to put the system into a surplus resonance (it takes about 10 seconds for his model - note that this does not necessarily increase the amplitude of the beam (spring limits it), but it does increase traction power of the beam, and it can't be limited without stopping the pendulum).

So, the power comes from 'out there'.. The good analogy would be an object made of a non-conductive material which nevertheless may carry an electrical charge. So, the system gains charge seemingly out of nowhere.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on May 31, 2007, 09:28:15 PM
That concludes the teeder todder part...........
Well, but how you'll describe surplus output from xnonix model? :)

On the other hand, I agree with some nay sayers that Milkovic did a bit 'bad' job when he used flashlight. He could use a rope with a simple force meter and show the reading (I guess a spring balance should be enough), and then use the same meter to measure force it takes to light a single flashlight (with flashlight being mounted on a stable stand). We could then see the effect better. If we light 9 flashlights with the same force as it takes to light a single flashlight then it's working (of course, after a first couple of pulls that put this system into resonance). Otherwise it's not.

But anyway xnonix model drives me nuts. I can't understand how it works and why it shows surplus energy... of course given, those are not free oscillations, but oscillations under load that transfer shown output energy to the spring (and to the anchored base which probably resembles energy sink point).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nandoanalog on May 31, 2007, 11:25:31 PM
 Hi. I know nothing about what you guys are talking about. I barely went to school...

 Today, about 5 hours ago, I came to this site, and it said that this device can put out more energy than you need to put in. So, I grabed some tools and build one of those devices.

 Well... It sure doesn`t put out more energy than I need to put in.

 So, can anyone give me some exact plans of how I should build it?
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nandoanalog on June 01, 2007, 12:58:03 AM

 I just realized that this device just cant work. It`s not even 99% efficient.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on June 01, 2007, 01:59:38 AM
I made another setup much more intuitive.

Now the hand stroke is simulated in another way.

Have fun!

PS: Sorry for correlative posts.
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=7483;image)

After analyzing this sim for hours last night:
First thing is "P output" is not actually output in any sense of the word.
The spring is acting like a flywheel, which is why output rises above input.
As soon as you apply any load at all, the excess energy is converted,
and the secondary arm begins runs at less than half the input wattage.
(50N spring VRS. 0.1N damper)

So this sim still proves my initial point...
Untill you start removing energy, putting it in is missleading.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on June 01, 2007, 02:07:39 AM
Aloha,
Pardon me. I wrote "of how we are using mechanical means of accomplishing work" when I should have written " of how we are using mechanical means of producing energy."
Aleks- you said "the power comes from 'out there'". Please, it's no great mystery. In fact, it's way to simple. It's just electro-gravity. You have been living in it all your life. Like wind, you cannot see it, but you see it's effect. A wire can have 200 volts in it, can you see the electricity? The electricity does not harm the wire, and it is not visable. Like gravity, electro-gravity.
Bill

Bill,

I couldn't help but notice you used the term "electro-gravity"...
How exactly did you unite "Electro-magnetism" and "gravity"?
The world of physics has been hunting for that equation for 50 years!
Please post it! BTW have you also united "strong/color force" and "gravity"?
Then you would have the "holy grail" of physics!

Looking forward to hearing more.
~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mrgalleria on June 01, 2007, 02:41:37 AM
Aloha,
Dingus Mungas- Regarding the term "electro-gravity". I just coined this term in this forum. I believe it should be used because I believe it more accurately describes what gravity is. Much thanks to Milkovik!
I cannot confuse others nor myself by arbitrarily introducing magnetism into the discussion, though it is true that magnetism can be implied to be at work here too.
To me, though, it's just not as apparent. Sorry, it is true that I am a very simple person, more of a realist than a physicist.
Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on June 01, 2007, 03:08:30 AM
Ahhh my bad, I was confused...

I had assumed you had united the theories of gravity and electromagnetism!
You see physicists have united electricity and magnetism by proving they were
the same force and phenomenom just observed differently. Then they ran in to
a snag... No one yet has been able to unite electromagnetism and gravity with
a single equation yet. So they are still considered two different kinds of force.
So unfortunately "electro-gravity" is probably a bad term to use until someone
finally figures out the whole unified theory thing first...

~Dingus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on June 01, 2007, 07:01:25 AM
As soon as you apply any load at all, the excess energy is converted,
and the secondary arm begins runs at less than half the input wattage.
(50N spring VRS. 0.1N damper)

So this sim still proves my initial point...
Untill you start removing energy, putting it in is missleading.

But how can you be sure it is exactly a damper spring? It could be a stiff attraction spring that does not oscillate. Hence my question about free oscillations. If these are free oscillations then it is nothing special, at all, and the output graph can't be called 'power out'.

Beside that there is NO indication of pendulum's swing - while it should also 'oscillate' like the output graph. So, output graph may not be tied to swing, at all - it may be exactly the consumed power.

Comment from xnonix could be useful.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on June 01, 2007, 09:00:50 AM
I had assumed you had united the theories of gravity and electromagnetism!
I wonder - if dielectric body carrying surface charge does start to move and accelerate in electromagnetic field, can this be construed to be equal to gravity? Can it be true that physicists are unable to equate electromagnetism to gravity just because they were unable to create electromagnetic system as powerful as the Earth core itself: i.e. because it is non-reproducible, and not because it is nonsense?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: xnonix on June 01, 2007, 10:06:33 AM
Hi all,
after many studies in wm2d my conclusions are in this thread.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2138.40.html

This thread is based on this device optimized for a circular movement.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on June 01, 2007, 11:39:35 AM
Hi all,
after many studies in wm2d my conclusions are in this thread.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2138.40.html

This thread is based on this device optimized for a circular movement.

I'm unable to follow your conclusions. Could you say your conclusions on the model you have posted on this Milkovic thread?

But what is more important - what kind of spring have you used? (wm2d is a bit expensive for me to try it myself)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 01, 2007, 03:42:54 PM
Aloha,
Dingus Mungas- Regarding the term "electro-gravity". I just coined this term in this forum.
Oh, no you didn't !!!
Here is a google search using electrogravitics:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=electrogravitics+boeing+b2&btnG=Search&meta=
Paul.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on June 02, 2007, 12:17:28 AM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2138.40.html
Everyone in this thread should be in that thread about now...
I found something pretty neat at 6am this morn!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on June 02, 2007, 07:00:15 AM
I totally agree with Dingus Mungus!!!!

Everyone should be checking that Juhla thread! Dingus has managed to get a Perpetual motion model Working on WM2D based solely on pendulums and gravity.

Worthy of some serious replication.

Regards.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mrgalleria on June 02, 2007, 10:12:51 AM
Aloha All,
Paul-R- so, your calling me a liar? You can do better than that.
(just did google- electro-gravity)
I really like this forum, there are a lot of optimists here.
Aleks- I enjoy following your line of reasoning, very similar to mine.
But aside from that, sorry I don't know anything about simulation programs. I intend to learn though. Thanks for the introduction to this media.
Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: eisenficker2000 on June 03, 2007, 07:50:31 PM
Hi anybody ever looked at the "Electric Pulse Pendulum Power Generator" ?

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=WO2005100787&DISPLAY=DOCS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on June 03, 2007, 08:43:37 PM
Hi anybody ever looked at the "Electric Pulse Pendulum Power Generator" ?

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=WO2005100787&DISPLAY=DOCS

So, we are late with this discussion.. while we are arguing about 'possibility' others already take patents. :) And it is 1.5 years old already... However, its drawing is different from Milkovic device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on June 04, 2007, 08:59:53 AM
Well I don?t know much about patents but this one surely looks bs to me. Starting with the bottom of page 7, where it says that E=m*9.82*9.82*0.60=57.624 Nm, everything bellow goes erroneous. That?s because, if I?m not too old, E=m*g*h and NOT m*g*g*h. You figure the rest?

So, I come back with my kind request above, although off-topic: is this a mere patent application and is to be rejected (I suppose) or is this a valid patent? (I really hope it is not!!! Otherwise, it would very badly shake any faith I have in patents.)

Respectfully,

Tinu
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on June 04, 2007, 03:39:51 PM
Well I don?t know much about patents but this one surely looks bs to me. Starting with the bottom of page 7, where it says that E=m*9.82*9.82*0.60=57.624 Nm, everything bellow goes erroneous. That?s because, if I?m not too old, E=m*g*h and NOT m*g*g*h. You figure the rest?

Sorry, I may be totally wrong, but they are talking about pendulum - not about a single piece of weight (that potentially falls down)

From some textbook:
Pendulum, after falling to the point where height=0 instead of E=mgh acquires velocity V=2gh, and so it acquires kinetic energy that is equal to E=mV^2/2.

Beside that the unit was tested and results were confirmed. They are receiving continuous 60 W while invesing 16.8 W two-second pulses, at intervals of 4 seconds. So, 2/6*16.8=5.6 W/h results in 60 W/h output. Pretty huge, very close to performance of Milkovic device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 04, 2007, 05:51:24 PM
The Milkovic principle seems to work as can be seen here in this simulation:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2138.msg33596.html#msg33596
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 04, 2007, 06:25:05 PM
Here is also a newer video from Mr. Milkovic.
Many thanks for mentioning my website in it !

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6377655322209610872


Best regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightguy2 on June 23, 2007, 04:13:57 AM
Hello, I have posted a video to google of my replication of Veljko Milkovic's machine. Hope you find it interesting. The file name is veljkomilkovic01.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dailytool on June 23, 2007, 09:34:34 AM
Brilliant simple design! Now you just need a little generator to run off the wheel and some device to electrically swing the pendulum (to be run by the generator). I wonder how much the spring on the chain takes away from the overall performance. Is it a very light weight spring?

Here is the direct Google download link:

http://video.google.com/videogvp/veljkomilkovic01.gvp?docid=3218487552793730311
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: helmut on June 23, 2007, 12:30:08 PM
Hello Nightguy2
Well done.I also guess,that some of the Power is konsumed by the Spring.
Perhaps you can fix the chain on the oter position quite near to the point.where the
Pendulum is fixed on.

helmut
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 23, 2007, 03:35:22 PM
Great video, well done,
here is the direct link to stream it in the browser:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=3218487552793730311

Please keep us updated about any new progress.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 23, 2007, 03:46:58 PM
Please try to couple a generator to the wheel and try to power the pendulum from this generator output via pulses to an electromagnet to kick the pendulum weight.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: magnusx on June 24, 2007, 07:44:21 AM
Hi all, great work going on here!
I'm new here but I've been interested in this stuff for ages.

 I thought of making a model of this device in Meccano but I'm a bit short of parts at the moment (I'll be working on it) - seems to me that you could check out the power of a real one by powering the swinging weight with a solenoid and gradually increasing the weight on the other end of the arm until it didn't rise . .
then you use that as a guide when you harness the output since it is short but strong oscillations, a little tricky to convert efficiently into rotary motion . . . .
Twelve times the input does seem pretty amazing though . . . ..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dailytool on June 24, 2007, 06:46:18 PM
Please try to couple a generator to the wheel and try to power the pendulum from this generator output via pulses to an electromagnet to kick the pendulum weight.
Many thanks.

Maybe someone has an old battery powered baby swing that they could convert:

http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-Smart-Stages-Rocker-Swing/dp/B000NK5GJW
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: srgrimm on June 25, 2007, 06:03:42 AM
I must be missing something....the concepts he's decribing are things I figured out when I was about 10 I think. It's nothing more than transfer of energy via fulcrums and pendulums...and I might add this is what I would call a far-from-unity machine. As demonstrated with his flashlights, he was continuously pushing the pendulum with the other flashlight thus keeping enough energy into the system to cause enough force to bang the lever on the "test" flashlight. Given enough of a lever and a properly placed fulcrum and one could move the world...is that how it goes.
I'm sorry,afer about five minutes of watching this I thought it was a gag video....something to tease everyone with. This guy acts like he just discoved gravity or something....hey, but what do I know.
 ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: VOR on July 02, 2007, 10:34:20 AM
Yeah,
And look at his oscillator pdf's...we're comparing voltage to power... Voltage = Current * Resistance... Power = Voltage*Current = Current^2*Resistance...Apples to oranges. All this mans done is show that yes conservation of momentum is still true...Mass*Velocity at time1 = Mass*Velocity at time2...lower mass, higher velocity, higher unloaded voltage...brb, i'm gonna get him a gold star...and you all get one too.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 10, 2007, 09:59:39 AM
Untill you've built it and tested it yourself you'll probably never believe it. Thank god there are researchers here willing to do the job since you would never bother. So please try not to belittle others hard work. Real losers don't even attempt.

I too am a skeptic but even in simulations I've seen some merit in this device.

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on July 11, 2007, 02:13:51 AM
Untill you've built it and tested it yourself you'll probably never believe it. Thank god there are researchers here willing to do the job since you would never bother. So please try not to belittle others hard work. Real losers don't even attempt.

I too am a skeptic but even in simulations I've seen some merit in this device.

~Dingus Mungus

I agree that it is noble to dedicate your time to something worthwhile, and what could be more worthwhile than a discovery leading to free energy for the entire world to use?  Such a discovery would probably end poverty and generally improve the lives of everyone.

However, I do believe that this noble task must be tempered by some common sense.  The device we have here simply demonstrates mechanical advantage.  I have no idea why this thread was started under the topic of "12 times more output than input."  Surely the OP is intelligent enough to know the difference between force and energy.  Without that distinction, we must include every lever, screw, pulley, inclined plane as an OU device!

Maybe an OU device is possible, maybe it is not.  What is clear is that pendulums and levers are not the answer, so maybe we should stop beating our heads against that particular wall.  This is stuff we learn in middle school science class.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 04:55:08 AM
http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm

Why don?t the skeptics read the papers from the professors doing the calculations ??
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 05:09:58 AM
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Misljenje%204%20-%20Matematicka%20analiza%20-%20Tosic.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Misljenje%204%20-%20Matematicka%20analiza%20-%20Tosic.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on July 11, 2007, 05:46:18 AM
http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm

Why don?t the skeptics read the papers from the professors doing the calculations ??

Why do you call this a paper from a professor?  The page clearly states that it was adopted from Milkovic's own website.  The inventors own claims cannot be used to validate the invention.

The second link you provide, the pdf document, is directly from Milkovic's website.

Looking at the water pump example, I do not see anything out of the ordinary.  Instead of pumping, the operator needs to keep pushing the pendulum (much like Milkovic, in his own video, needs to keep pushing the pendulum while his device is lighting the flashlight).  It is easier to push the pendulum, due to the mechanical advantage involved, but there is no energy gain here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on July 11, 2007, 05:51:00 AM
Additionally, a couple people have posted in this thread that they have built this device themselves.  (It is a fairly simple contraption, after all.)  Neither noticed any energy gain.  Why are you convinced that there is any gain at all, much less 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 or whatever is claimed.  With a 12 to 1 gain, the pendulum should never stop!  12 to 1 is huge.  Why isn't this thing powering Europe yet?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: snowblind on July 11, 2007, 08:23:18 AM
Hi

first post.

This is the way I see the pendulum machine works:

-----Why we need input energy:

Imagine you have a "perfect" pendulum swinging in a vacum with no friction, on perfect bearings etc..  (impossible but just for this example). It would swing forever without ever losing its speed/slowing down/stopping, Thus requiring no input energy to keep going.

Because we dont have a perfect pendulum, we have to input energy to make up for friction, bearing resistance etc.. that the pendilum encounters while swinging. Note that this energy is not to swing the pendulum, but to keep it swinging because of the resistance it encounters. The pendulum keeps swinging via the force of gravity.

While swinging, the mechanical part of this machine (other end) taps up and down, with a force equal to the weight of the pendilum (say 100kg). this weight can be used to create whatever (power a generator etc..).

---Why the other end lifts up:

When the pendulum is on the outside/top of a swing, it has lost all its energy, and gravity starts to pull it down. At this point it is weightlessto the other end (which taps up and down),  and the other end is in the down state.

Gravity works on the pendulum and pulls it down, gaining momentum/force whatever.

When it is at the center/bottom of its swing it has a downwards force equal to, or more than, its own weight, and the other end of the machine is now lighter and lifts up.

The pendulum then swings up and ends up at the start again.

---The other bit:

The next thing we have to ask is: does the up down motion added to the pendulum take/use some of the swing force acting on the pendulum? If it does, then the system is not over unity, as we have to put this energy back in with the input energy (i.e. input energy is not just factoring friction, but also the up down motion).

If it doesnt, then the system is overunity. Note that while the pendulum has the most force and pulls the other end up, as it swings along, the other end is pulled down by gravity and 'gives' energy back to the pendulum. So we could just have to add some more input energy for the resistance of friction/bearings etc..

---

Thats just my theory after a few hours on the peswiki and then finding this thread (e.g. reading things like the machie is most efficient when both ends are the same weight. I only flicked through 15 or so pages of this thread. Im going to build a small model with some chopsticks, paperclips, tape and rocks and see what happens.

Greeting from Japan
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 08:35:36 AM
@shruggedatlas:


http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Misljenje%204%20-%20Matematicka%20analiza%20-%20Tosic.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Misljenje%204%20-%20Matematicka%20analiza%20-%20Tosic.pdf)

To all the skeptics,
this PDF file was written by:
Akademik Professor  Dr. Bratislav To?ic

Please point out here if you find some mathematical errors in it.
Otherwise don?t come here and always give us the same lame skeptical views...PLEASSSSEEEE !


There are replications under way right now that try to close the loop.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: WhiteFalcon on July 11, 2007, 02:54:22 PM
I'm currently gathering parts to replicate this machine, I bought an old bike for $5...

I have two ideas to improve the machine...

1) Make the pendulum to swing perpendicular to the lever, so the same force would be applied to the lever when the pendulum swing from right to left than from left to right.  If you look carefully at Milkovic's machines, you may notice that the force is different when the pendulum swing from front to back than from back to front...

2) What if I make both end of the lever to be a hammer AND carrying a pendulum.  When pendulum A is a Bottom Dead Center, pendulum B would be at Top Dead Swing.  Will I gain more amplitude on the lever?  Since both ends of the lever now have a variable mass...  This I don't know... I'll try to see...

WF
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on July 11, 2007, 03:31:52 PM
@shruggedatlas:


http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Misljenje%204%20-%20Matematicka%20analiza%20-%20Tosic.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Misljenje%204%20-%20Matematicka%20analiza%20-%20Tosic.pdf)

To all the skeptics,
this PDF file was written by:
Akademik Professor  Dr. Bratislav To?ic

Please point out here if you find some mathematical errors in it.
Otherwise don?t come here and always give us the same lame skeptical views...PLEASSSSEEEE !


There are replications under way right now that try to close the loop.

I will admit that I have no idea what that paper says, but I sincerely doubt it says there is a 12 to 1 energy gain.  I believe a 12 to 1 mechanical advantage, perhaps with the combination of the lever and the pendulum, but not a 12 to 1 energy gain.

As far as closing the loop - there is no way to make a pendulum create energy, and there is no way to make a lever create energy.  They both only give out what energy was put into them.  The lever allows a small force to lift a relatively heavy object, but at the cost of having to exert the small force over a longer distance than the heavy object actually lifts.  A pendulum doles out its energy slowly (via friction and air resistance) over the duration of its swing, but it cannot give out any more energy than what was originally exerted into lifting the pendulum in the first place.  There is nothing new here.  If someone was to close the loop on this, then it would mean that see-saws and pendulums never stop, but accelerate on their own (at a 12 to 1 energy gain).  But this is now how things work in this universe.

Am I missing something?  Is there really any more to this machine than a lever and a pendulum?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on July 11, 2007, 03:52:50 PM


The next thing we have to ask is: does the up down motion added to the pendulum take/use some of the swing force acting on the pendulum? If it does, then the system is not over unity, as we have to put this energy back in with the input energy (i.e. input energy is not just factoring friction, but also the up down motion).

If it doesnt, then the system is overunity. Note that while the pendulum has the most force and pulls the other end up, as it swings along, the other end is pulled down by gravity and 'gives' energy back to the pendulum. So we could just have to add some more input energy for the resistance of friction/bearings etc..


You have thought about this and your analysis shows this!  It is easy to get confused discussing this device, because the lever affects the pendulum and vice versa.  But in the end, it is just a pendulum attached to one end of a see-saw.  Neither a pendulum nor a see-saw naturally accelerates, so there is not way to magically combine the two together and get an over-unity device.  In fact, any combination of the two can only decrease efficiency, because there are more parts in contact and therefore more friction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bigface on July 12, 2007, 04:11:28 AM
I still doubt that this machine is overunity.  If this machine is overunity then it would most likely be due to the swinging of the pendulum.  I don't see why the lever is necessary at all, it only makes it lose energy due to friction.  The lever does not contribute any more energy it just transfers it from one end to the other.  why not just have a pendulum on a string pulling on a load? that would make the system more efficient because it doesn't lose energy to friction from the lever. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on July 12, 2007, 04:47:49 AM
@bigface,
you did not understand the principle:

As the pendulum is at its highest point the force onto the leverarm is zero
and thus the other end of the leverarm behind the pivot point  gets more heavy.

When the pendulum is at its lowest point in its swing, it gets much more heavy,
also through its centrifugal force and this will make this leverarm
much more heavy now and it can lift up the other leverarm with much more force.

So you see, the pendulum is modulating the gravity which is working onto the
whole leverarm and thus can convert gravity field energy to mechanical output energy.

As the input power via pushing the pendulum is almost at 90 degrees to the gravity field,
so this does not interact with the gravity and thus it needs only low input power.

The more centrifugal force we have, which is a virtual force,
the higher will be the COP over one..


So it is basically a gravity modulation device with low input power and higher
output power, converting unbalanced gravity forces into real mechanical
output power.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ravengo2005 on July 12, 2007, 01:52:39 PM
If you need translation for any of this texts, I can help. I know serbian language.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bigface on July 12, 2007, 03:36:39 PM
hartiberlin, thanks for replying.  I do understand the principle behind this device.  My point was that the lever is pointless.  The driving force behind this device is the pendulum, if this device really did create energy it would be due to the swinging of the pendulum and not the movement of the lever.  The lever merely transfers downward force created by the pendulum into upward force of the other side.  This principle would be just as valid if you used a pulley system instead of a lever. 
              The lever contributes nothing in terms of energy.To suggest that this device is over unity is suggesting a pendulum is overunity.  i do not know whether a pendulum is or isn't but either way the lever does nothing of use in the system.  i think that the easiest way to verify this system is simply attach a pendulum to a spring scale. 
               it would still work the on the exact same principle as the lever/pendulum combo but it would be easier to measure.  The the lowest point of the swing it would have gravitational and centrifugal force pulling down on the spring.  At the highest point you would have essentially no force acting on the spring so it would go back up. So gravity would still be modulated as you say, just using a spring instead of a lever.  This would make it a lot easier to measure then adding an extra piece (lever) into the equation.  instead of having lever+pendulum+scale(to measure output) you can simply have scale+pendulum.
              i hope i made myself clear and i look forward to your response. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: helmut on July 12, 2007, 04:12:18 PM
Hi Bigface

Please have a look to the first Movie from the Inventor.
He explains,what happens to the Oscilation and what happend on the other Side of the Lever.
You can not just ignore the part of the Resonanz.

helmut
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: WhiteFalcon on July 12, 2007, 06:19:21 PM
I'm not sure if this device is or is not OU, but I'm impressed to the point that I want to try to build a replica!!

I'll put down to example of why I think it is OU.

1) Let's talk about a gas engine and an alternator.  The engine is connected FIRMLY to the alternator pulley, to the point that when you turn the alternator by hand, the force will make the engine turn...  The engine doesn't need to give a lot of energy to make the alternator to turn when there is no load on it.  But if you put a load on the alternator (retrieving energy from it), a COUNTERFORCE will slow down the engine, since they are firmly connected.  Extracting too much energy of the alternator may even lead to engine stalling...

2) The pendulum is not OU.  Nor the lever is!   We ALL know that.  The interesting thing in the Milkovic device is that energy is easily transferred to the lever, but the lever cannot swing back the same COUNTERFORCE to the pendulum, since the connection between the two of them is "quite interesting" !!!  In the end, ALL of the energy that the pendulum GIVES (on the way down) is used to make the other end of the lever to go up (less friction, for sure!!).  Then, the lever can extract work from gravity, and is going down.  The energy extracted from gravity SHOULD be the energy returned as a counterforce to the pendulum, but can't, because of the "interesting connection"... so this energy is extractable from the device for us, without affecting the input side.  And what did the pendulum used to give energy to the lever : it's own mass!  Did he lost it? No!!


Another example that made me thinking, to show that a normal "lever" is different from this device.  Let's say I set up a lever with a 10:1 ratio.  I can lift a 200 lbs rock!!  If I say "Put your finger under the lever" you know I can crush it if I push the lever with both of my arms and legs!!  But you have nothing to fear if I only tap the lever with my little finger!!!!

But if I tap the pendulum just ONCE with my finger on Milkovic's device, your finger will be crushed by the 25 kg of mass of the lever on its way down!!  I can even say : "I can crush a new finger with each little tap of my little finger on the pendulum!!"

WF
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on July 13, 2007, 03:52:00 AM

Another example that made me thinking, to show that a normal "lever" is different from this device.  Let's say I set up a lever with a 10:1 ratio.  I can lift a 200 lbs rock!!  If I say "Put your finger under the lever" you know I can crush it if I push the lever with both of my arms and legs!!  But you have nothing to fear if I only tap the lever with my little finger!!!!

But if I tap the pendulum just ONCE with my finger on Milkovic's device, your finger will be crushed by the 25 kg of mass of the lever on its way down!!  I can even say : "I can crush a new finger with each little tap of my little finger on the pendulum!!"

WF

I think you are giving both too much and too little credit to the "tap".  How strong is a tap?  If you mean a moderate tap, maybe enough to move 500g, then it is enough to injure or at least seriously discomfort my finger!  With a 10 to 1 advantage, this translates to 5kg, and I would not want a 5kg weight to be pressing on any of my fingers!

On the other hand, to threaten me with Milkovic's device, you would need to tap a 25kg weight.  I do not know how far you have to tap it, but to get it up any amount would certainly require a force equal to having to lift 2 or 3 kg, and this is stretching the definition of a tap.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 16, 2007, 05:05:06 AM
You won't know what you're taking about untill you build a model.
It doesn't have to be perfect! Just do the wind resistance demo.
Its amazing to see how much work the lever does vrs pendulum.
Linear equations can not help you understand this device.

I'm so tired of fighting the nay sayers,
~Dingus Mungus

Its not OU yet, but with proper developement I think it's CoP>1.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AlanR on July 16, 2007, 02:45:59 PM
Hi all, first post....

hate to start off like this, but this exact thing has been beaten to death at the besslerwheel.com forums over and over again.

All manner of pendulum and many other purely mechanical solutions (as Besslers wheel was, take a look!) are investigated.

To date nothing has shown OU   :-[ but that hasn't stopped us (or you guys  :) )

Keep trying, but you are wasting your time chasing this particular one.

Hope to make a more positive comment next time, best of luck chaps.

Alan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: d3adp00l on July 17, 2007, 05:15:54 AM
If it was (which it is not) 12 time more out then heres the simple test, use the level to produce power to manipulate the pendulum, if it can keep going then it is o/u because it is beating friction, if it can't then its not. This device is the swinging equal to the worm and spur gear thats all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 18, 2007, 03:12:09 AM
If it was (which it is not) 12 time more out then heres the simple test, use the level to produce power to manipulate the pendulum, if it can keep going then it is o/u because it is beating friction, if it can't then its not. This device is the swinging equal to the worm and spur gear thats all.

This is what I'm trying to say... You don't yet understand the prinicples. The lever can only effect the pendulum when its roughly 180 degrees out of phase and its a negitive interaction, but the pendulum always effects the lever positively. I have half a dozen examples of a 2x pendulums swinging longer and harder than a stationary duped pendulum, but it's never going to introduce enough energy to the free wheeling pendulum to close the loop with no additional components. You would be right in saying thats impossible, but based on what I've seen in my experiments there is definitely more going on in this device than people are willing to see. We just need a precision way to tap the pendulum why extracting the output.

Like I said if you're a "nay sayer" get out some wood, pen springs, steel hangers, some paper, and some plyers and test against wind resistance. You'll notice a pendulum with the broad side of a piece of paper on its vertical axis will quickly slow and stop from the air resistance, but when you place the paper on the horizonal lever it has nearly ZERO influence on the pendulums speed or phase. Thats not what physics would refer to as a normal trasfer of potential energy. You're just not looking at the important factors of its operation. Its in no way a ready to develope concept yet, but it absolutely does show its validity IMHO. Please test for yourself and report back if you still don't see it. I'm still trying to think of a better way to harness this gravitional potential feedback in the mean time. If this device was a lot more complicated I think people would give it more benifit of the doubt, but due to its simplistic structure people assume to understand it far too quickly.

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: snowblind on July 20, 2007, 05:42:30 AM
Hi

So all the believers out there: this would theoretically work. I just drew this up quickly at work.

Pretty much when the lever pulls up, it pulls a string which pulls back a small hammer, which is pushing against a spring. It passes over a one way clip, which stops it from releasing and is held there. When the pendulum reaches the top and is near the hammer, the lever goes down and it pulls the other string, which pulls the clip and releases the hammer, which pushes the pendulum forward.

Note this is a pretty simple drawing, and would require a lot of tweaking, and pully ratios etc.. but you get the basic idea.

It would need to be atleast 200% efficiant to work like this, as the hammer will get pulled and released when the pendulum is at the other end of its swing aswell, meaning no benifit to the system. if you had a 2 independent pendilum/leaver systems hooked up to the same hammer, but the hammer had a fork shape, and swung the pendulums at opposite ends, it would only need to be 100% efficiant, as it would push each pendulum with each swing.

I hope you can understand this  :-X

Greets from Japan
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 20, 2007, 11:30:49 AM
Explaining the Milkovic Pendulum and Lever system using the Lee-Tseung Lead Out  theory.

Many of you are already expecting this.  The Published Lee-Tseung PCT patent information (PCT/IB2005/000138) describes how a Pulse Force on a Pendulum can Lead Out  gravitational energy.

Explaining the detailed working of the Milkovic system is now in
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2794.msg40855.html#msg40855.

There is no magic.  There is indeed Gravitational Energy Lead Out from two complementing systems.  Please comment via the above thread.

@snowblind from Japan,
Good thinking.  Work on it more.  I am confident that you are moving in the right direction.  Energy has been Lead Out.  It is a matter of using it!

Lawrence Tseung
Lee-Tseung Theory Leads Out the secret of the Milkovic system
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 21, 2007, 12:37:21 PM
Improving the Milkovic system.

Please read:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2794.msg41011.html#msg41011

Who can help to pass this message to Milkovic?

Regards,

Lawrence Tseung
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on July 21, 2007, 04:58:02 PM
Improving the Milkovic system.

Please read:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2794.msg41011.html#msg41011

Who can help to pass this message to Milkovic?

Regards,

Lawrence Tseung

Hello Lawrence,

See Milkovic's contact page info:  http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/KontaktEng.html

Regards
Gyula
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Senator on July 24, 2007, 05:53:40 AM
Ok.

Question.

Why is the flashlight thing touted as an amazing proof for the machine?

You/He appears to interpret as energy, only the period a flashlight is on or in fact the light from the flashlight itself, with no regards to the speed he brings (his) flashlight in. I think that he vastly underestimates the energy he is inputing, which is far greater than just pressing the dynamo button on the other flashlight.

That energy, does not come from closing the contact, (that would require just to press it with your finger, then put it near the pendulum, and release it allowing the button to hit the pendulum. Then you could claim that you have inputed into the system energy equal with the one needed to make one flashlight turn on) it comes from his arm, which in turn comes from bio/chemical reactions releasing enough energy to accelerate the mass of said arm, and ultimately the mass of the flashlight, which collides with the hanging pendulum, which then gets transfered (that biochemical energy) to the entire mass of the pendulum. Energy, far, far greater than the pressing of the dynamo button.
In fact, with the flashlights are on or off is quite irrelevant, a much better measurement to take would be heat. The heat produced by the collision of his flashlight to the hanging pendulum, and the heat produces by the collisions of the hammer to the other flashlight.

You see, he appears to be thinking over this, as the energy that takes to pressing the dynamo button, when in reality, you have there one flashlight getting its dynamo button pressed, and another flashlight getting its button pressed, moving at a speed. Their energy is not equal.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 24, 2007, 08:33:38 AM
The point of the flashlight was that when your pushing on a moving object, its hard to deposit extra energy without moving faster than the object in its away swing. This coupled to the fact that his single flashlight could barely be fully lit with the impact was use to illistrate an overall understanding of the concept, not an accurate CoP.

Build the wind resistance demo with junk from around your house and you'll be a believer. Also check out American replications on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLRTW7Kdje4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_XVuMdSro4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3GQnhpkMBc

I just hung a pendulum from a rod made from a metal clothes hanger. Mounted it so its level under the weight of the pendulum, and taped a sheet of paper to the pendulum. I pulled it back and released it. It twisted arround and quickly came to a stop. I expected as much. Then I moved the same piece of paper to the spot on the lever furthest from the fulcrum where the movement and resistance would be greatest. Same test but a lot more work was extracted... Dare I say more than 12 times what the pendulum itself was able to do on its own. This means I introduced the same amount of potential energy in to a pendulum and got back more expendable kinetic energy on the lever than I could extract from the pendulum. Do you see what I mean? I then did the same experiment with no paper and found the runtime of a unloaded lever and a loaded lever were roughly the same as no extra strain was placed on the pendulum in either example.

Please experiment and then draw an opinion.
This is a super simple device, but its complicated to fully understand.

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Senator on July 24, 2007, 09:55:42 AM
Barely lit, is not how I would describe the shoving shown here: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv

Once again, the light is irrelevant, it does not represent the energy provided by the act of the mass of the flashlight (AND arm) colliding at a speed with the pendulum. How long it stays on, doesn't provide any information on how "hard" it was pushed. Also, don't forget that those lights, light up at the act of being pushed, not on them button remaining pushed. As a result, any light colliding with the pendulum, would only light up only during the initial collision and then would turn off while you could still provide for the rest of a second as acceleration.

If anything, pushing away while the object is in it's away swing, is the best, this way you can provide a very gentle acceleration for a significant amount of time that will add to the objects energy (as opposed to a collision with the object coming at you which would also risk canceling some of it's kinetic energy) while maintaining the illusion that is insignificant. You collide, flash light turns on-off and then you continue the movement with your arm, but this time your arm charging with energy the entire mass of the pendulum. The energy seems insignificant to us, because arm muscles are strong and so we concider the act of shoving such big a mass as an army and letting it "rest" (from our perception) on a pendulum insignificant.

As I said, just, truly using only the energy of the dynamo light's button decompressing (eg, by pressing it with a finger from the side, or a string, bringing it near a still pendulum, and releasing it) and managing with that, to press 2 flashlights, or 12, would be impressive.

Concerning coathungers, I couldn't understand very well your device but I assume you mean the same "toy" in the first video in the http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html site specifically around 7:30-8:30

My problem with that is that you/he has no way of accurately measuring the energy he provides with the starting "tap". Presumably he provides just enough, for the vibrations to be start looking "similar" as when unloaded. A more dramatic way of doing it in fact would be to lift the horizontal end exactly the same amount off center in  both cases.

But

It is not the same system any more. Because the small pendulum, acts as an energy storage. Basically, what he did, was increase the mass of the long element. By providing enough energy to make it "start" with the exact same vibration, you have actually provided much more energy. His "tap" might seem the same to him, but it now sets in motion a system with much more mass.

So.

Although the horizontal pendulum alone doesn't fair well alone with a paper.
And the small pendulum alone doesn't fair well with a paper.
When you attach the paper to the horizontal one, with the small pendulum attached to it, what the paper faces now, is a horizontal pendulum with the mass of the horizontal element AND the small pendulum together. And since the small pendulum is also swinging, also it, being an energy storing device (almost like a winding spring) for the horizontal element.




 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 25, 2007, 07:14:19 AM
Barely lit, is not how I would describe the shoving shown here: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv
Again my point is still: the required input pressure of the pendulum (while in swing) is a LOT less than that required to power 12 flashlights at once... Would you agree?

Once again, the light is irrelevant, it does not represent the energy provided by the act of the mass of the flashlight (AND arm) colliding at a speed with the pendulum. How long it stays on, doesn't provide any information on how "hard" it was pushed. Also, don't forget that those lights, light up at the act of being pushed, not on them button remaining pushed. As a result, any light colliding with the pendulum, would only light up only during the initial collision and then would turn off while you could still provide for the rest of a second as acceleration.
This is because the energy given to the pendulum is lower than the energy required to compress the spring. Would you agree? If not why doesn't the handle fully compress?

If anything, pushing away while the object is in it's away swing, is the best, this way you can provide a very gentle acceleration for a significant amount of time that will add to the objects energy (as opposed to a collision with the object coming at you which would also risk canceling some of it's kinetic energy) while maintaining the illusion that is insignificant. You collide, flash light turns on-off and then you continue the movement with your arm, but this time your arm charging with energy the entire mass of the pendulum. The energy seems insignificant to us, because arm muscles are strong and so we concider the act of shoving such big a mass as an army and letting it "rest" (from our perception) on a pendulum insignificant.
Firstly, Thats how they were swinging it. Second, it would be hard to "trick my eyes" considering I did my own experiments before developing an opinion on this topic.

As I said, just, truly using only the energy of the dynamo light's button decompressing (eg, by pressing it with a finger from the side, or a string, bringing it near a still pendulum, and releasing it) and managing with that, to press 2 flashlights, or 12, would be impressive.
Yeah that would be a really easy demo to perform by hand...
Plus no one would come in claiming it didn't work then! ::)

Concerning coathungers, I couldn't understand very well your device but I assume you mean the same "toy" in the first video in the http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html site specifically around 7:30-8:30

My problem with that is that you/he has no way of accurately measuring the energy he provides with the starting "tap". Presumably he provides just enough, for the vibrations to be start looking "similar" as when unloaded. A more dramatic way of doing it in fact would be to lift the horizontal end exactly the same amount off center in  both cases.

I have no idea what you are saying there... Did you mean load the pendulum to the same hieght in both experiments? If so the goal is to swing it in resonance and phase so the optimal swing distance is always roughly the same.

But It is not the same system any more.

It's just another form of the concept, all you need is two mechanical oscillators and gravity. The fulrum and counter weight are for power only. In fact that design is really squirrly to control, which is why most replications have gone to the wheel form.

Because the small pendulum, acts as an energy storage. Basically, what he did, was increase the mass of the long element. By providing enough energy to make it "start" with the exact same vibration, you have actually provided much more energy. His "tap" might seem the same to him, but it now sets in motion a system with much more mass.
Build one and judge for yourself. I can't stress this enough.

So.

Although the horizontal pendulum alone doesn't fair well alone with a paper.
And the small pendulum alone doesn't fair well with a paper.
When you attach the paper to the horizontal one, with the small pendulum attached to it, what the paper faces now, is a horizontal pendulum with the mass of the horizontal element AND the small pendulum together. And since the small pendulum is also swinging, also it, being an energy storing device (almost like a winding spring) for the horizontal element.
Congrats thats nearly the whole point of this device!!! You almost fully "get it". You can't load either when seperate, but magicly when combined you can load the lever without extracting any noticable force from the pendulum. The pendulums downward inertial causes its "weight" to tripple twice a cycle. And extracting power from the lever doesn't effect your "wound up spring" at all! Now you just need to input the energy yourself and extract the energy yourself and you'll understand it. Our video evidence will not suffice so you'll need to do your own experiment.

OK so forget the flashlights and how its an inaccurate test (never intended to be accurate) and go to small scale testing. If spending an hour building something is "not for you". Start reading from page one or just assume your right and never bother looking at this concept again. Point is no one is going to be able to help you understand this uber simple device. You need to help yourself by doing a simple proof of concept, but we both know thats not going to happen, as its easier to just hit reply and jabber on about the same points again. Do you honnestly believe you're the first person to come in and say those things?

Forgive me for being short, but I have this conversation once a week. Seriously... Take an hour and look back through the thread... People show up, read nothing, watch one video, and challenge months of work based on an uninformed opinion. It's an irritating case of big hat no cattle, considering anyone can build this proof of concept, out of anything.

Welcome to the forums,
~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Senator on July 29, 2007, 08:13:28 PM
Quote
Again my point is still: the required input pressure of the pendulum (while in swing) is a LOT less than that required to power 12 flashlights at once... Would you agree?
Not really. Levers can be impressive like that. Let me give you my favorite example. The door.

A well oiled door, needs only a "slight" touch to move, something someone would call "insignificant" energy. You could set it in motion by just unfolding your finger.

But, put your finger in the other end near the hidge after someone set it in motion, and you would find it "very difficult" to stop it. Put it in the wrong place and a "slight" shove (which if someone applied directly on your finger with his hand wouldn't hurt at all) might even crush it.

Slight shove from the one side, crashing power on the other, is that an overunity machine? Sounds like it, but it isn't. And if you understand that mechanism you can understand what is going with that device over here as well.

The door example gives me an idea for an experiment. Take something soft, like blue tack, and make a ball. Then put many balls of similar size in the hidge area, and hit the door with a ball you hold in your hand with enough force, to flatten it and watch how many you can flatten on the other side. The energy to flatten, or even slighty deform one blue tack ball on your hand, flatten many on the other side? What is going on there?
Quote
This is because the energy given to the pendulum is lower than the energy required to compress the spring. Would you agree? If not why doesn't the handle fully compress?
It does light up, so it does compress. The difference is that his, compresses once, and stays there for the remaining of the acceleration while because in the other side because compressions decompressions happen continously the energy output seems more dramatic.

But wait, there is in fact and a second problem. You appear to think that the energy it takes to compress the flashlight button in his hand, is the same with compressing the flashlights on the other hand.

Well, first off I want to call your attention to another phenomenon. Have you noticed that if you put a scale on a hard surface like marble, and if you put a scale on a soft surface, like a carpet, or over a pillow, they show different weights? What is going there? The carpet stops gravity? Initial intuition would assume that since the energy provided in both is same, they would both show the same amount, regardless if one have to dive inside the carpet enough until it becomes "solid".

But, this is not the case what it actually happens, is that the carpet, acts like a spring, and takes some of the load of the spring of the scale, with the two springs, based on their "hardness", finding a balance somewhere in the middle. Two scales one on top of the other would in fact show half your weight despite, you, providing the same force on them! (plus a scale). And you would need double the force to make it seem the same!

In other words. When you compress a spring against an object that gives way, it's not the same as when you compress a spring against an immovable surface. Your pendulum, is going to act as an opposite spring, as "hard" as the friction in it's pivot point (towards which is also a lever so it gives even easier way), which you hit during its away phase as well, I would say that the fact that it lights up at all, can already represent significant energy.
Quote
Yeah that would be a really easy demo to perform by hand...
Plus no one would come in claiming it didn't work then! Roll Eyes
Not that difficult actually. Let me describe it in more detail.

You take a piece of string. You tie it around the dynamo flashlight's button in a way so that it is compressed, you put the flashlight button next to the pendulum, and then you release the spring and/or if you have tied it and for neatness, burn it. That way, the pendulum is going to get one flashlight's button decompression worth of energy, if it manages to compresses even two on the other side, THAT would be significant.

That is all.

I guess I will have to build one myself, just to get the "no mock up model, no talk" comments off my back but I am also prepared to wait the very very very very long time it will take you to ever close the device and make it self-running.

I an overunity lurker, who could trust an electromagnetical device's claims, because they involve quantum effects likes fields and leave space for some invisible "mystery" you cannot debunk, unless you test it. Mechanical devices however will never work, no matter how many levers, how many flywheels and wheels someone hides behind, it always comes down to a geometrical riddle that results in what we know. Objects fall down, once.
Quote
Do you honnestly believe you're the first person to come in and say those things?
Those specific points, phrased like this? Yes.




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PulseFuelNerd on July 29, 2007, 10:25:35 PM
Hmmm. 52 pages of postings so far on this subject! wow
I skipped to the most recent to find out- "what could they still be discussing?"

Figures....
Peace to all. (concerning the last two posts.)

Hey folks, Viewing the video clip with the little pink bicycle confirmed my thought that this in not OU.
I would think that the 1:12 ratio claims would be put to rest (and this thread for that matter) when one sees three fingers stopping the tire on the little pink bike.  It is 'WORKING' at full output for it's design.

Pendulums and levers are great and very useful and all.... But this forum is about OU. 
Are not our efforts better spent elsewhere?

Cheers to all who try and keep trying.
Russell

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 30, 2007, 01:26:06 AM
Your first 3 posts here are all saying the exact same thing and further confirming your whole point for being here is to discredit this device. You're not here to experiment or replicate or contribute... You're here to tell us what we're doing wrong right? Oh thank you for pointing this out for us. Thank god we have randoms coming in to tell us "whats what" months after the fact.

Point is when you load the lever the pendulum is not effected. Any and all energy transfered to the lever is free. All other points are moot by now. Build it and see for yourself, or continue to ASSUME you're right and move on. I will never be able to convince you, and because I've actually built a demo and experimented with the concept you'll never convince me. So we are litterally talking to walls here. I am NOT here to say its 1200% efficient or that its a CoP>12, but I will say this mechanic system is not a simple as it first appears. It's all about phase and mechanical resonance, and when you get those things worked out you do can extract energy from a pendulum with out any additional slowing to the pendulum!!! I can't say it any clearer. The pendulum once in full swing goes from weightlessness to 3x its stationary weight.

Have you ever pushed a kid on a swing?
Is it the ammount of work for each push, equal to LIFTING the kid to that height?

I REPEAT: go build it, or simply assume you're right and move on. Debating a guy whos describing door hinges is really getting old, and so help me god if you even mention a flashlight I will be ignoring your posts from here on out.

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Senator on July 31, 2007, 04:09:00 PM
Fine. When you close the device and it is self-running, even after years, don't forget to send me an e-mail. kupeplex@hotmail.com

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 31, 2007, 07:18:17 PM
Will do... In the mean time you are right. It will probably will be years. If you want to see a better proof of concept involving OU, then check out the Linnard Griffin HHO thread. There is some great prototype discriptions and experiment data in there. Once again a simple system, galvanic chemistry, but its not a simple as it appears once you built it and run it for a week or two.

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: binarycortex on August 02, 2007, 01:23:32 AM
I have several ideas relating to this as far as extracting work and turning that into electricity. Granted these may seem Rube Goldberg-ish but what the heck, who knows it may even inspire someone with the resources to try it or something like it.

1. Since we know this device is very good at operating mechanical hand pumps (water) why not use that to run a water wheel or two water wheels if you hook up one to run on the opposite stroke. On that note since we are already pumping the water up might as well have each water wheel empty into a bucket with a hole in it and have that pour on to another water wheel. We just doubled our output, yaay gravity.

2. Attach a steam engine type wheel to the end of the lever (the lever would be the piston), attach that via chain or a similar method to a smaller wheel and put a generator on that. See attached crappy drawing.

I'll let you guys figure out how to close it, or don't, it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on August 02, 2007, 11:31:59 AM
Some one is working on replication now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_XVuMdSro4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLRTW7Kdje4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgnxMqVAFKM

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: binarycortex on August 02, 2007, 06:33:22 PM
I have seen his work but sadly he has stopped working on it. I did notice there was a new video posted on milkovic's site, which includes images and drawings posted in this thread.

http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-8)_Universal_two-stage_oscillator_full_presentation.wmv (http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-8)_Universal_two-stage_oscillator_full_presentation.wmv)

Ian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: buz.drahu on August 02, 2007, 10:10:04 PM
Hello guys
I'm a newbie on this site
Thanks Hartiberlin for this work
I'm french, sorry for my bad english
How clever and generous comunity
In OU, people who share their work is rare
Thanks everybody :)

Sorry, i have not read all messages in this subject, perhaps my interpretation has already figure, but...

For me, this device is not OU.
don't waste your time without study a bit.
OU is fantastic, and it's easy to lose the reason and fall in madness.
No OU device is so simplest, gavitational device too.

Why it's not:
-Ok, the torque can be multiplied, even more than twelve, i think.
-But, what about the angle of the torque?
if you multiply torque by angle, you will get, the same (quite less)

It's only a mecanical level, like a gearing, a jack or a control lever.
But this device is great, for its application, like pumps in africa because of the oscillation.

In the movie, we see one lamp supplying others, ok, it's not a fake.
But what thinking about the lenght of the movement of his hand to do that?
For keeping the movement, if we suppose to push the pendulum in the same distance of the lever of the lamp (about 30-50mm), we'll need the same power than output.
If we push it twelve time the distance (like video), we'll use (twelve time less) it's simplest.

Sorry, but this device is so simple replicate, why nobody has already success to loop ?


Cordially
BH
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Unicron on August 03, 2007, 10:43:01 AM
Or like this?
only need the timing of the wheel to push and pull. or won't this work?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: buz.drahu on August 03, 2007, 11:29:14 AM
Hi Unicron

Many times, i saw the same mistake,
if you try, or see the video, we observe that the second level as a double freq
your shem won't work.

i think all movement are Sin, so mine also is not the best setup.
Because of the lenght of the rod
my second permit a non-linear force, it can be use for tunning

Cordialy
BH
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 04, 2007, 03:35:30 AM
to all,

while i see alot of people trying to use bicycle's to close the loop of this device, i don't see anyone thinking about where the tourqe is located in this device!  everyone seems to be trying to take maximum torque from the end of the lever, even after it has loaded a spring. 

if you look at the point where, maximum power or, (crush force), is , you will see that it is at the fulcrum of the lever!  not at the end of the lever.  (where would you rather have your finger?)  if you don't want your finger at the end of the lever( under the hammer), you damn sure don't want it any closer to the fulcrum. 

the thing is, that none of the replications, that i have seen, have taken this into cosideration.  please, someone take this into consideration and see what kind of power you can develop from the axel of the fulcrum on the lever.  not to be mistaken for the end of the lever. 

no wonder you can't get any power!

lol
ss
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 04, 2007, 03:38:46 AM
to all,

while i see alot of people trying to use bicycle's to close the loop of this device, i don't see anyone thinking about where the tourqe is located in this device!  everyone seems to be trying to take maximum torque from the end of the lever, even after it has loaded a spring. 

if you look at the point where, maximum power or, (crush force), is , you will see that it is at the fulcrum of the lever!  not at the end of the lever.  (where would you rather have your finger?)  if you don't want your finger at the end of the lever( under the hammer), you damn sure don't want it any closer to the fulcrum. 

the thing is, that none of the replications, that i have seen, have taken this into cosideration.  please, someone take this into consideration and see what kind of power you can develop from the axel of the fulcrum on the lever.  not to be mistaken for the end of the lever. 

no wonder you can't get any power!

lol
ss

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DarkLight on August 04, 2007, 11:19:14 AM
Hi all

I have made some calculations that are valide for all unbalanced wheels and similar devices

When we move center of mass of the device, we move it only horisontally. We did not do any work against gravity, only against friction (in this concrete case we do work against gravity. It is the difference in potential energy between highest and lowest position of the pendulum.)

Let we move center of mass of the device horizontally at distance L
let we have friction coefficient

k=0.05    <- rolling

the friction force will be

M*g*k=0.05*M*g

work that we do to move the center of mass at distance L

A_friction = 0.05*M*g*L



When the center of mass is moved, there will be uncompensated torque

torque = M*g*L

work that we gain from rotating of the device due to this torque is

A_torque = Fi*M*g*L

Fi   is the angle of rotation in radians

Now we can calculate what angle of rotation Fi we need to gain at least the energy that we put in

A_result = A_torque - A_friction = FI*M*g*L - 0.05*M*g*L

we need 

M*g*L*(Fi - 0.05) > 0   =>  Fi -0.05 > 0  =>  Fi > 0.05  radians

or FI > 2.865 degrees


That is the principal I think.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 04, 2007, 12:44:25 PM
@DarkLight,

This is very interesting. I think you should develop this idea further as soon as possible.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 04, 2007, 12:57:20 PM
@DarkLight,

Have you seen this: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Mathematical_analisys_Tosic_english.pdf. Would like to hear your opinion on that.

The problem is solved in the ?forward? direction (that is, the swaying of the pendulum causing the oscillations of the lever) and it seems to be the trivial part, aside from the fact that probably some of the approximations are unjustified.

 What would the solution be in the ?reverse? direction (that is, when the oscillations of the lever on the opposite side of the pendulum are forced)? Would there be analytical conditions whereby these forced oscillation would cause the pendulum to swing? If not then the asymmetry Mr. Milkovic is talking about is inherent in the very essence of the mechanism.

Also, would there be an analytical solution which would undoubtedly prove the production of excess energy the way it has been proven analytically in the case of SMOT?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 04, 2007, 10:54:27 PM
to all,

while i see alot of people trying to use bicycle's to close the loop of this device, i don't see anyone thinking about where the tourqe is located in this device!  everyone seems to be trying to take maximum torque from the end of the lever, even after it has loaded a spring. 

if you look at the point where, maximum power or, (crush force), is , you will see that it is at the fulcrum of the lever!  not at the end of the lever.  (where would you rather have your finger?)  if you don't want your finger at the end of the lever( under the hammer), you damn sure don't want it any closer to the fulcrum. 

the thing is, that none of the replications, that i have seen, have taken this into cosideration.  please, someone take this into consideration and see what kind of power you can develop from the axel of the fulcrum on the lever.  not to be mistaken for the end of the lever. 

no wonder you can't get any power!

lol
ss


anyone going to try this? any news?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DarkLight on August 04, 2007, 11:16:54 PM
The work we gain is   

torque*angle

it dose not matter where do you take out the force

torque and angle are the same

more force but less distance
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 05, 2007, 01:20:49 AM
darklight,

you are correct, as were the experimentalist, that showed that power could be generated at the end of the lever!

the question remains, what is the power generated at the center of the fulcrum?

until this question is answered, i don't see how you can write this off!!!!!

lol
sam


ps:  think of gears!!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 05, 2007, 09:56:37 AM
@DarkLight,

All is good an well in your idea as far as obtaining more energy out than in. However, this a one time deal. How do you restore the initial state of the machine so that you can get another portion of excess energy?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DarkLight on August 05, 2007, 10:13:17 AM
@DarkLight,

All is good an well in your idea as far as obtaining more energy out than in. However, this a one time deal. How do you restore the initial state of the machine so that you can get another portion of excess energy?


Unbalancing the system in the other direction will give us another portion of excess energy.
That makes the pendulum here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 05, 2007, 10:28:15 AM
There must be some time lag to break the symmetry. Can you show a mechanism doing this?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 05, 2007, 10:35:45 AM
Can you show analytically how in this device the portion of energy imparted to the pendulum to make one full swing produces more energy than the input on the other side of the lever?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 06, 2007, 10:22:20 PM
to all,

while i see alot of people trying to use bicycle's to close the loop of this device, i don't see anyone thinking about where the tourqe is located in this device!  everyone seems to be trying to take maximum torque from the end of the lever, even after it has loaded a spring. 

if you look at the point where, maximum power or, (crush force), is , you will see that it is at the fulcrum of the lever!  not at the end of the lever.  (where would you rather have your finger?)  if you don't want your finger at the end of the lever( under the hammer), you damn sure don't want it any closer to the fulcrum. 

the thing is, that none of the replications, that i have seen, have taken this into cosideration.  please, someone take this into consideration and see what kind of power you can develop from the axel of the fulcrum on the lever.  not to be mistaken for the end of the lever. 

no wonder you can't get any power!

lol
ss


it is funny cause my grandmother has an old manual sewing machine that uses this method!  :o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 10, 2007, 11:58:21 PM
fe:

that isn't applicable, imho, i have one too.  the real point of my question is, where are alll the experimenters taking there  energy from?  i think that everything i have seen on an experimental basis, has confirmed that that you can't get more, work, out of the end of the lever, than you put in.  DUH! 

the question i have is, is there a possibility, in a dual oscillating system to extract more energy out of the lever's fulcrum?  if the facts as purported are true, then there should be more than enough power to sustain, and accelerate a gravity device.

it is still my opinion that the best place to do this would be at the fulcrum of the lever, even if it required gears, such as on a bicycle, in a simple arrangement.  i have seen numerous attempts to extract this energy from the end of the lever, however, none to try and take this energy from the center of the torque circle.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 11, 2007, 12:05:56 AM
 ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 11, 2007, 02:29:09 AM
at all:

i just do not get it!  you go from zero gravitational force to three times the force,  ( in a matter of seconds), and you can't understand that this could be used for mechanical leverage, and harvested at the fulcrum of the lever, and still bounce back to, at the least reset the pendulum!

take for instance if you set the lever up at a four to one ratio, will you not have twelve to one output at that point? can you reset the pendulum with that power output and still produce excess energy?  it, just seems possible to me.  even knowing that it can't be done.

lol

sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 11, 2007, 02:47:38 AM
hi all:

i guess what i am trying to say is that since my windmill doesn't have to pump water from two hundred feet anymore, by it's self, my cows now have alot more water available.

just think of the wind power alone!  trust me it doesn't take near the power for my windmilll to slap a pendulum, as it does for it to pump water four feet, let alone two hundred.  i think this should speak for it's self.  once you move one gallon of water up one foot then with the same force you can move it however far you need it.

the thing i am thinking about now is how to make this overunity.  the rest has already been shown.  but how do we close the loop?

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 11, 2007, 02:56:51 AM
hi all:

i guess what i am trying to say is that since my windmill doesn't have to pump water from two hundred feet anymore, by it's self, my cows now have alot more water available.

just think of the wind power alone!  trust me it doesn't take near the power for my windmilll to slap a pendulum, as does for it to pump water four feet, let alone two hundred.  i think this should speak for it's self. 

the thing i am thinking about now is how to make this overunity.  the rest has already been shown.  but how do we close the loop?

lol
sam

i can't wait! sooner or later we will crack the code for self powered machines based on gravity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 11, 2007, 03:33:00 AM
FE:

have you been hiding under a rock? i just said if you can slap a pendulum with a windmill every few seconds you can pump a one inch column of water over two hundred feet. yes it takes a few more foot valves, but so what in the long run.

no i don't have an eternal supply of wind either. however, most of the time i have enough to slap the pendulum!

lol
sam

ps: maybe i should consider batteries!  hummm!

;
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 11, 2007, 03:38:32 AM
FE:

have you been hiding under a rock? i just said if you can slap a pendulum with a windmill every few seconds you can pump a one inch column of water over two hundred feet. yes it takes a few more foot valves, but so what in the long run.

no i don't have an eternal supply of wind either. however, most of the time i have enough to slap the pendulum!

lol
sam

ps: maybe i should consider batteries!  hummm!

;

how are you "slapping" a pendulum with a windmill. got a picture?

p.s. ever though of using the drinking bird? http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2421.0.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 11, 2007, 03:45:23 AM
fe:

a simple piece of leather on the downstroke!

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 11, 2007, 03:46:29 AM
like to see a picture just to confirm :)


thanks :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on August 11, 2007, 03:53:53 AM
fe:

right!

lol
sam













Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 22, 2007, 11:58:55 AM
to all,

while i see alot of people trying to use bicycle's to close the loop of this device, i don't see anyone thinking about where the tourqe is located in this device!  everyone seems to be trying to take maximum torque from the end of the lever, even after it has loaded a spring. 

if you look at the point where, maximum power or, (crush force), is , you will see that it is at the fulcrum of the lever!  not at the end of the lever.  (where would you rather have your finger?)  if you don't want your finger at the end of the lever( under the hammer), you damn sure don't want it any closer to the fulcrum. 

the thing is, that none of the replications, that i have seen, have taken this into cosideration.  please, someone take this into consideration and see what kind of power you can develop from the axel of the fulcrum on the lever.  not to be mistaken for the end of the lever. 

no wonder you can't get any power!

lol
ss


hi all, me again.

just a suggestion. what if you hang the whole device like a pendulum from the lever's fulcrum? i think you will have more torque in the other end of the pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on August 29, 2007, 01:36:37 AM
G'day all,

The trouble with taking the power off the balance beam's fulcrum is that you don't get enough movement to do anything with, granted there is more torque, but without gearing or levering it, it is quite useless for any practical application.

If on the other hand you take the power off the pendulum's fulcrum the whole idea of secondary oscillations goes out of the window. You will just bring the thing to a standstill so much quicker.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rozzaa72 on August 30, 2007, 02:32:51 PM
Perhaps mr milkovic's design would become perpetual motion, if a balloon type water pump, like what the doctor uses to check your blood pressure, was put under the hammer and compressed, with each swing. The hose could be used to squirt water on the pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: oouthere on September 01, 2007, 04:09:05 AM
I have not read all of this post but hopefully enough to not be totally ignorant.

Just looking at the short usefull movement, I believe this could be coupled with a wankle magnet motor for regauging and then using the stored kinetic energy of the wankel (since no regauging power is used from the wankel) to oscillate the pendulium.

The wankle motor can be built using an iron spiraled rail instead of magnets and only an attractive force will be used on the rotor (neo magnet).  The last portion of the rail is severed and connected to the second portion of the oscillator.  When the magnet of the rotor is on the last (severed portion) of the rail the dual oscillator moves the rail to regauge the rotor.  The severed portion would need to be calibrated as to allow mometum to carry (energy stored in a flywheel) past the permanent part of the rail.

It looks like I've found my next project after the final tests of the RV.  :D

Rich
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on October 25, 2007, 08:11:35 AM
@hans,

do you really believe that gearing at the fulcrum is the right way to go?  i  have to agree with you if this device will ever be looped!  if there is twelve times more power out than in then it is only a mattter of, where do you extract the power from to keep the device running and how much power do you have left to generate energy?

lool
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on October 25, 2007, 11:45:46 PM
G'day Supersam and all,

When I first came across the Milkovic device I created this animation just for fun. The trouble though with the Milkovic idea is that you do indeed have an increase in power, but no increase in available energy. The power developed is only of a very short duration, so when you multiply each side power times time you will find that the total ENERGY is in equilibrium minus friction losses as one would expect. That is why no-one, including Milkovic has been able to achieve a self runner. But for the hell of it look at this and PLEASE don't take it too seriously.

If you want some further information on the device go to my website and have a look, there are two papers there on the device that I wrote some time ago.  http://www.keelytech.com/news.html and follow the links.

In the meantime here is the "Beast" :-)

Hans von Lieven

(http://www.keelytech.com/news/perpetualmotion.gif)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Eddy Currentz on November 06, 2007, 01:20:29 AM
G'day Supersam and all,

When I first came across the Milkovic device I created this animation just for fun. The trouble though with the Milkovic idea is that you do indeed have an increase in power, but no increase in available energy. The power developed is only of a very short duration, so when you multiply each side power times time you will find that the total ENERGY is in equilibrium minus friction losses as one would expect. That is why no-one, including Milkovic has been able to achieve a self runner. But for the hell of it look at this and PLEASE don't take it too seriously.

If you want some further information on the device go to my website and have a look, there are two papers there on the device that I wrote some time ago.  http://www.keelytech.com/news.html and follow the links.

In the meantime here is the "Beast" :-)

Hans von Lieven


Hi Hans,
As a builder of a few Milkovic oscillators I have to take issue with your contention of equilibrium. While it appears that what you put in is what you get back, this has not been my experience.
If you have a 10 lb pendulum on one side, and a 10 lb weight on the secondary for balance, without any input energy you have a system in equilibrium. If you pick the pendulum up to a point of about 45 degrees and let it go, what happens? It swings down to the bottom of it's arc and applies force, through the arm, to the 10 lb weight. Say the 10 lb weight travels 1 inch vertically. The pendulum continues in it's arc and reaches the peak of it's swing on the other side. The 10 lb weight has no force on it so it drops down to rest. On the return swing the same thing happens with the 10 lb weight.
The energy put into the system is what it took to lift the pendulum in the first place. This energy was used to raise a 10 lb weight 1 inch, twice.
Now we need to put more energy into the system to raise the weight 2 more times. This is the amount of energy required to return the pendulum to it's starting height. A gentle push is usually sufficient to accomplish this, and another gentle push to do it again and on and on.
Now, take the pendulum off it's arm and let the 10 lb weight rest on the other end. By pushing down on the lever where the pendulum was attached, raise up the 10 lb weight, 1 inch, two times.
You will immediately realize how much work that pendulum is doing every time you give it a gentle push. Even better, do it with a 500 lb weight. You will not be able to budge that weight without the pendulum attached. Swinging the pendulum once will pick up that 500 lb weight twice. If you had a scale under the weight, it would go from 0 to 500 lbs two times. That's real work.
Where does this work come from? It's not gravity. It's centrifugal force. The force that "doesn't really exist", only it does.
A mass in circular motion doesn't always listen to Mr. Newton.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 06, 2007, 11:49:31 PM
Hi Hans,
As a builder of a few Milkovic oscillators I have to take issue with your contention of equilibrium. While it appears that what you put in is what you get back, this has not been my experience.
If you have a 10 lb pendulum on one side, and a 10 lb weight on the secondary for balance, without any input energy you have a system in equilibrium. If you pick the pendulum up to a point of about 45 degrees and let it go, what happens? It swings down to the bottom of it's arc and applies force, through the arm, to the 10 lb weight. Say the 10 lb weight travels 1 inch vertically. The pendulum continues in it's arc and reaches the peak of it's swing on the other side. The 10 lb weight has no force on it so it drops down to rest. On the return swing the same thing happens with the 10 lb weight.
The energy put into the system is what it took to lift the pendulum in the first place. This energy was used to raise a 10 lb weight 1 inch, twice.
Now we need to put more energy into the system to raise the weight 2 more times. This is the amount of energy required to return the pendulum to it's starting height. A gentle push is usually sufficient to accomplish this, and another gentle push to do it again and on and on.
Now, take the pendulum off it's arm and let the 10 lb weight rest on the other end. By pushing down on the lever where the pendulum was attached, raise up the 10 lb weight, 1 inch, two times.
You will immediately realize how much work that pendulum is doing every time you give it a gentle push. Even better, do it with a 500 lb weight. You will not be able to budge that weight without the pendulum attached. Swinging the pendulum once will pick up that 500 lb weight twice. If you had a scale under the weight, it would go from 0 to 500 lbs two times. That's real work.
Where does this work come from? It's not gravity. It's centrifugal force. The force that "doesn't really exist", only it does.
A mass in circular motion doesn't always listen to Mr. Newton.

G'day Eddy Currentz and all,

If what you are saying is right, why then has no-one managed to build a self sustaining engine in what is now 10 years or so since the idea has been around. With THAT kind of surplus energy it should be a walk in the park. Many have tried, no-one has succeeded. After all, this is a very simple device which can be built by almost anyone who has some experience with tools. The materials required can be got for free if you are strapped for cash, so this is no barrier either. Everyone that was seriously experimenting with the device has walked away from it, even Milkovic has been remarkably quiet since the first of March this year.

The first one to demonstrate perpetual motion with this device will go down in history, The physics books will have to be re-written. You would think there is enough incentive there. And yet is doesn't happen. Food for thought maybe?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Eddy Currentz on November 07, 2007, 03:24:32 AM


G'day Eddy Currentz and all,

If what you are saying is right, why then has no-one managed to build a self sustaining engine in what is now 10 years or so since the idea has been around. With THAT kind of surplus energy it should be a walk in the park. Many have tried, no-one has succeeded. After all, this is a very simple device which can be built by almost anyone who has some experience with tools. The materials required can be got for free if you are strapped for cash, so this is no barrier either. Everyone that was seriously experimenting with the device has walked away from it, even Milkovic has been remarkably quiet since the first of March this year.

The first one to demonstrate perpetual motion with this device will go down in history, The physics books will have to be re-written. You would think there is enough incentive there. And yet is doesn't happen. Food for thought maybe?

Hans von Lieven
Hi Hans,
How do you know it hasn't been done? Veljko has a tendency to hold some cards close to his chest.  ;)
I like your animated drawings, you have some very clever ideas. Nevertheless, without hands on experience it's very difficult to understand this mechanism.
To me, building a self runner is secondary to really understanding the physics involved. This looks like a simple machine, and physically it is. The difficult part is determining how the power is developed and how to efficiently use it.
I'm still learning a lot of new things with different configurations of this mechanism. I'm also experimenting with full rotation of unbalanced wheels. There is resonance, feedback, geometry and many other parameters that all work together in creating a desirable or undesirable output. Parasitic oscillations alone are a big problem. It's not quite as straight forward as it seems. A lot of time is spent in design and construction.
In other words, these machines are great fun.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 07, 2007, 04:12:10 AM
G'day Eddy,


Quote
In other words, these machines are great fun.

You are right they are. You are also right in your reasoning that there are many things yet to be discovered as far as resonance is concerned. And again you are right in saying that when it comes to resonant circuits our friend Newton is not always doing as well as expected.

Having said that it is not easy to create a self runner this way. I am not certain, as a result of considerable experimentation, that there is enough energy in the system to do so.

The energy developed on the "working side of the beam", if I may call it that, comes in 4 distinct pulses. The two upswings and the two downswings have each different characteristics. They are not identical in stroke-length and force. This makes a feedback system difficult to design. For that reason I have employed in the above animation a two way ratchet system (borrowed from George Constantinesco). This will impart the maximum available motion on the transfer gear regardless of individual stroke-lengths.

The rest is a matter of timing and weight of the hammer that energises the pendulum. I know I have been criticised for using a purely mechanical approach. To my critics I say this, any conversion of mechanical energy to electrical energy by say a generator of some sort and the reconversion of this electrical energy into mechanical energy by say an electromagnet in order to push the pendulum costs a lot of energy. You will be lucky to be able to apply 35% of the available energy to the pendulum.

The mechanical system envisaged in the animation is far more reliable and efficient, in spite of its clumsiness.

I have not built it like this, purely because my initial experiments indicated there was not enough energy in the system to guarantee its functioning.

Hans von Lieven

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Eddy Currentz on November 07, 2007, 05:53:25 AM
Hey Hans,
One of the reasons that I switched to full rotation was the problem of stability with the pendulum. It's difficult to produce even and regular pushes in order to keep the pendulum in the sweet spot.
I agree with your assessment of turning the mechanical force into electrical energy. Its a very lossy process. On a larger scale with some serious engineering it might be more feasible.
Here is a machine I built that combines a Bedini wheel with a Milkovic oscillator. I called it the Milkodini. I stuck about 10 lbs of weight on the wheel to unbalance it.
The coil gets the wheel moving fairly well, enough to go through a few oscillating points during spool up.
The secondary will start to bounce wildly at certain RPMs, even with heavy springs to dampen it, unless I hold on to it. Even grabbing on to the arm and really leaning on it doesn?t completely stop it from oscillating. There is a lot of leverage when the stroke is shortened.
It only takes about 600 ma @ 12 volts to put out a considerable amount of force in the lever. And, of course, the current stays the same regardless of the loading.
After all the gearing I was only able to light a few led's with a stepper motor I stuck in there. It was quite a sight when it all got going. The problem was having way to much mechanical loss in the gearing, and I should have stuck the flywheel on the final shaft. The gearing should have been done in one step too.
It was a fun motor though. Here's a few pics.

Here is a side view.

(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1200/widefnl5.jpg)

Here is the gearing mechanism I used. I took apart an old bicycle and used the sprockets. It creates a 1-5 increase in speed (and a 5-1 reduction in torque). The flywheel weighs 20 lbs.

(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/8334/milko6qz5.jpg)

I used a stepper motor as a small generator to light a few led?s. There wasn?t much left by the time the generator received some rotation.

(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7840/gearstd2.jpg)

I also borrowed heavily from Mr. Constantinesco and fashioned a mechanical valve from a couple of gear wrenches. It worked well, but had more slop than I could have hoped for. A clutch bearing would work much better, but you would have to machine an arm to fit on it.

(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1874/mechvalveeg0.jpg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 07, 2007, 10:01:58 AM
G'day Eddy,

There are a number of ways to keep the pendulum in the "sweet spot". The old time honoured method is of course the pendulum clock escapement. The other way is to use a 555 timer and an electromagnet. Since the resonant frequency is a result of the length of the pendulum alone, and since this frequency is incredibly stable, the timer can be set to deliver a push at the optimum time. You can also set the duty cycle of the timer and therewith set the amount of force you add into the system.

If you need more information on this please ask.

Btw. Good job and a lot of imagination on your prototype. Keep it up, you have talent.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 07, 2007, 11:01:10 PM
G'day Eddy,

There are a number of ways to keep the pendulum in the "sweet spot". The old time honoured method is of course the pendulum clock escapement. The other way is to use a 555 timer and an electromagnet. Since the resonant frequency is a result of the length of the pendulum alone, and since this frequency is incredibly stable, the timer can be set to deliver a push at the optimum time. You can also set the duty cycle of the timer and therewith set the amount of force you add into the system.

If you need more information on this please ask.

Btw. Good job and a lot of imagination on your prototype. Keep it up, you have talent.

Hans von Lieven

so what are you saying? over unity is possible with this system?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Eddy Currentz on November 07, 2007, 11:21:00 PM
G'day Eddy,

There are a number of ways to keep the pendulum in the "sweet spot". The old time honoured method is of course the pendulum clock escapement. The other way is to use a 555 timer and an electromagnet. Since the resonant frequency is a result of the length of the pendulum alone, and since this frequency is incredibly stable, the timer can be set to deliver a push at the optimum time. You can also set the duty cycle of the timer and therewith set the amount of force you add into the system.

If you need more information on this please ask.

Btw. Good job and a lot of imagination on your prototype. Keep it up, you have talent.

Hans von Lieven
Thanks for the encouragement Hans, I appreciate it. :)
I thought of also using a solenoid with a microswitch for the pendulum, but I'm sort of committed to full rotation at this point.
The mechanical pulses are much smoother and easier to handle. The key is to not take too much energy out of the system, or it becomes very inefficient. It's a trade off where the more travel you have, the easier the energy is retrieved. However, the more travel you have, the more energy gets bled off your angular momentum. The shorter the stroke, the more energy that is retained as rotational inertia. It seems to me to be an exponential relationship.
This presents difficulties in converting these short, powerful strokes into useful energy, especially electrical energy. Without well engineered and precision parts, a lot of energy is lost. This is nothing that can't be solved, it just adds to the puzzle.
I bought a little hand operated bilge pump that I'll rig up to see how much water I can lift. I can at least get a rough idea of how much work can be done on the output compared to the input.
Rotational physics are very interesting. What Chas Campbell has done with his flywheels, and what ltseung has talked about, lead me to believe there is energy available for the taking. There is a mysterious part (to me anyway) about the distribution of power in offset axis. It has to do with the effect a rotating mass has on the aether, with respect to it's axis. I've heard it mentioned a few times, but never explained well. It's just one of many foggy areas spread throughout my understanding of energy.
An excellent video to watch, which briefly mentions this concept, is by Jim Murray called the Gravity Tap Project. I wish I could grill Murray for a couple of hours about this stuff. That guy knows a lot.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6761827664845630969&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6761827664845630969&hl=en)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 07, 2007, 11:45:19 PM
@ Free Energy,

No, at this stage I would not go as far as this. By the same token I have not completely discarded the idea either.

The main problem with the device is its erratic behaviour. If the energy that causes this can be channelled in the desired direction perhaps it is possible to extract more energy from the system than we put in.

What we are dealing with is essentially a double pendulum. They behave in a strange way and become more and more chaotic as time goes by or as energy input increases. It is impossible to mathematically predict the behaviour of such an arrangement over any length of time.

The only way to control it at the moment is to severely dampen the reaction with counterweights, springs and so forth, which eat up energy at a furious pace. If that energy can be channelled it might become a different story.

Below is a simulation of a double pendulum. This animated GIF was taken from a physics site and is authoritative. It is easy to rig this up and observe the phenomenon yourself. Just add a balance arm beyond the fulcrum and add a dampening weight and you have the Milkovic device.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: CHANGE Australia on November 08, 2007, 08:28:45 AM
Why hasnt the loop been closed?  ???

If the basic premise is correct, and if, say, input is 1 stroke, output is 10 strokes, how come 1 of the extra 10 strokes hasnt been utilised to close the loop?

If I had built one of these, and it truly gave the first step to 'overunity', I'd immediately move to close the loop with the many relatively simple methods available. Why this isnt being done is anyones guess.

God help us.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 08, 2007, 09:09:38 AM
G'day change,

I think you are misunderstanding the system. If you have a close look at my animation on the previous page you will see there are two complete strokes (up and down) for every complete cycle of the pendulum (forward and return).

Where the alleged overunity comes in is in the power exerted on those up and down strokes compared with the power required to keep the pendulum moving.

I have not found usable overunity that could be harnessed to perpetuate the motion not to mention being able to extract work.

In spite of its simplicity of construction we are dealing here with quite a complex system as far as the different forces generated and their interactions are concerned.

The jury is still out on this one but even if someone manages to build a self runner using this system, don't expect it to revolutionise power generation.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 08, 2007, 09:18:51 AM
@ Free Energy,

No, at this stage I would not go as far as this. By the same token I have not completely discarded the idea either.

The main problem with the device is its erratic behaviour. If the energy that causes this can be channelled in the desired direction perhaps it is possible to extract more energy from the system than we put in.

What we are dealing with is essentially a double pendulum. They behave in a strange way and become more and more chaotic as time goes by or as energy input increases. It is impossible to mathematically predict the behaviour of such an arrangement over any length of time.

The only way to control it at the moment is to severely dampen the reaction with counterweights, springs and so forth, which eat up energy at a furious pace. If that energy can be channelled it might become a different story.

Below is a simulation of a double pendulum. This animated GIF was taken from a physics site and is authoritative. It is easy to rig this up and observe the phenomenon yourself. Just add a balance arm beyond the fulcrum and add a dampening weight and you have the Milkovic device.

Hans von Lieven

very very nice thanks for sharing. this gives me a whole new perspective on this Mikovic device. the animation is great!

peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 08, 2007, 09:23:50 AM
even if someone manages to build a self runner using this system, don't expect it to revolutionise power generation.

why not? i would put into use for myself and share it with friends, etc.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Eddy Currentz on November 08, 2007, 04:27:05 PM
Why hasnt the loop been closed?  ???

If the basic premise is correct, and if, say, input is 1 stroke, output is 10 strokes, how come 1 of the extra 10 strokes hasnt been utilised to close the loop?

If I had built one of these, and it truly gave the first step to 'overunity', I'd immediately move to close the loop with the many relatively simple methods available. Why this isnt being done is anyones guess.

God help us.


Hans has been gracious enough to design it, all we need is someone to build it (hint, hint).   :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 08, 2007, 11:24:52 PM
G'day all,

I wouldn't put too much stock in my "design". There are a number of things wrong with it that are not easy to overcome. It was never meant as a design to which a machine should be built, it was more an illustration of a possible approach. Sort of like a workout at the mental gym :-)

The system to function at all relies on resonance. Key to it is keeping the pendulum moving at its resonant frequency. Now normally, like in a pendulum clock, that would not be much of a problem, this has been solved centuries ago with the escapement mechanism. So why don't we use that?

Well, for one, the pendulum's fulcrum in a clock is in a fixed position. In the Milkovic device it is not. Here it moves in an arc relative to the fixed fulcrum of the balance beam. This in effect makes the balance arm a pendulum in its own right, with its own resonant frequency. The balance arm is moved solely by the centripetal forces that develop in the pendulum. It is important to understand this. As the pendulum reverses swing the centripetal forces are temporarily suspended and the balance beam because of its counterweight moves upwards. Since for every complete cycle of the pendulum there are two such points, the balance beam moves at TWICE the frequency of the pendulum.

We no longer have a clean relationship between resonant frequencies because now we have a natural frequency (the pendulum) and a forced frequency (the balance arm)

These two are antagonistic to each other resulting in erratic behaviour. Milkovic compensates for this by pushing the pendulum with his finger at what he judges to be an opportune moment. A mechanical device is not that flexible.

There are a number of other antagonistic frequencies that develop in the device, to go into this here would exceed the scope of this post. Perhaps I should write a paper on this when I have the chance.

The trick with this device would be to design it in such a way where all emerging vibrations are in a harmonic relationship to each other thus creating what Keely called a "Neutral Centre".

This is easier said than done. Perhaps you will understand now why I am putting so much work and research into this device and how it interfaces with my attempt to replicate Keely. Here we have a mechanical analogy to Keely's acoustic system. Interesting stuff indeed.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on November 09, 2007, 01:09:41 AM
Thanks Hans .. that's about the most lucid & succinct account I've heard yet  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Eddy Currentz on November 09, 2007, 01:44:11 AM
It would be easy to drive a pendulum with a Bedini coil. They are bidirectional and you can control the amount of drive to the pendulum.
If you built the pendulum, like I did the Milkodini, on a wheel with only 4 or 5 magnets, you could swing the pendulum as high as you want at it's natural frequency.
This coil is very efficient and would provide all the drive you need for a 10 to 15 lb pendulum.
Dealing with the secondary is a whole different can of worms.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 09, 2007, 05:21:23 AM
G'day all,

Attached is the avi capture of a computer simulation of a Milkovic device. I have only programmed gravity into this, no allowance for friction or air resistance. The pendulum length is twice the distance between the balance beam's fulcrum and the pendulum's fulcrum.

The weights are such that when the beam is horizontal in a quiescent state there is perfect equilibrium.

Note the erratic movement. It gets much worse when you allow it to run further but the entire file is over 26 MB, too big for posting here. Nevertheless this is an example of what happens when using these parameters.

The programme used is WorkingModel 2005.

This is just a short illustration of what I have been talking about.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DarkLight on November 09, 2007, 07:37:49 AM
The period must be the same.
Pendulum and lever must move in synchrony
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Eddy Currentz on November 09, 2007, 03:38:59 PM
That's an interesting simulation, but I'm afraid it bares little resemblance to reality. In my experience, when the pendulum swings down the lever swings up. There is some irregularity in the motion, but it is confined to small erratic excursions. They more resemble harmonic or parasitic oscillations. I have never had a machine even come close to behaving like that simulation.
The position of the pendulum and the load with respect to the fulcrum changes the dynamics of the machine. The length of the pendulum is also a critical parameter.
To achieve optimal performance, a fair amount of testing and adjustment is required. These things can act like real slugs when they aren't happy. But once you get the load impedance matched to the pendulum, the machine comes alive.
Milkovic claims that there is no connection between the load and the pendulum, and this is correct in a narrow sense. You can extract energy from the secondary, or hold the lever still, and it makes little difference to the pendulum (within certain parameters). However, there is a point of resonance where the secondary is reflecting energy back to the pendulum in an additive way. This is the tuning we're after.
A short, heavy pendulum works well. Look at Milkovic's machines and see how an optimal setup is constructed. Why reinvent the wheel when someone else has already done most of the work?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 09, 2007, 08:02:35 PM
G'day Eddy,

I will post simulations soon of different layouts. This particular arrangement shows very graphically what you are up against.

Believe it or not, this is actually the optimum harmonic combination. It generates the most energy with the least losses. The natural frequency of the balance beam is one octave above the natural frequency of the pendulum. Any attempt to bring these erratic movements under control like shorter pendulum, springs, discord between balance beam and so forth will get the vibrations under some control but will also cost you much of the available energy.

I have a few ideas of how maximum energy can be obtained without creating rogue frequencies but the system is still incomplete, though promising.

You are correct when you say that a very short pendulum length diminishes the problem albeit it does not cure it altogether.

Hans von Lieven
Title: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Earl on November 09, 2007, 09:08:13 PM
For the builders and simulators:

I would like you to try "Earl's Idea".

This idea comes from analogical comparison to electrical circuits.
The traditional double axis oscillator is what an EE would call "single-ended".  It needs an electrical point as reference, usually ground.  The mechanical circuit is the same; it needs a point of reference, for example a metal frame or the ground.

My idea is to turn this "single-ended" mechanical mechanism into what an EE would call "differential or push-pull".  For the same output impedance, a differential circuit has twice the amplitude and 4 times the output power as a single-ended.

This means no mechanical reference more. You need two arms oscillating 180 degrees out of phase, and of course the same phase offset for the two pendulums or unbalanced discs.  My EE bones say that two continually rotating discs, each with a weight on the circumference, would be better than pendulums.  Pendulums need gravity, rotating unbalanced discs should not need gravity.

The two discs/pendulums are on the same end; when one is going up, the other is going down.  The power output is taken only between the two moving arms at some point along their length.

The two arms are only connected at their common pivot point, each on its own ball bearing.  This would be a convenient point to fix the two bearings together and to attach the whole machine to a suspension frame which rests on the ground.

The input power would be to 2 electromagnets, each fixed on one arm pulsing each disc / pendulum.  Output power would be for example a water compressor connected by very flexible tubing.

Instead of one arm being referenced to a fixed environment, the two arms are now only referenced to each other.  This is the reason for the term differential.  Who knows, this machine might be able to function (with rotating unbalanced discs) just as well laying on its side or in outer space?  It seems to me that such a machine might be independent of gravity.

What do you think?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 09, 2007, 09:21:06 PM
G'day Earl,

You mean something like this perhaps?

(http://www.keelytech.com/news/oscillations/harness.gif)

Hans von Lieven

For more information on this device http://www.keelytech.com/news.html and follow the link.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Eddy Currentz on November 10, 2007, 01:21:03 AM
For the builders and simulators:

I would like you to try "Earl's Idea".

This idea comes from analogical comparison to electrical circuits.
The traditional double axis oscillator is what an EE would call "single-ended".  It needs an electrical point as reference, usually ground.  The mechanical circuit is the same; it needs a point of reference, for example a metal frame or the ground.

My idea is to turn this "single-ended" mechanical mechanism into what an EE would call "differential or push-pull".  For the same output impedance, a differential circuit has twice the amplitude and 4 times the output power as a single-ended.

This means no mechanical reference more. You need two arms oscillating 180 degrees out of phase, and of course the same phase offset for the two pendulums or unbalanced discs.  My EE bones say that two continually rotating discs, each with a weight on the circumference, would be better than pendulums.  Pendulums need gravity, rotating unbalanced discs should not need gravity.

The two discs/pendulums are on the same end; when one is going up, the other is going down.  The power output is taken only between the two moving arms at some point along their length.

The two arms are only connected at their common pivot point, each on its own ball bearing.  This would be a convenient point to fix the two bearings together and to attach the whole machine to a suspension frame which rests on the ground.

The input power would be to 2 electromagnets, each fixed on one arm pulsing each disc / pendulum.  Output power would be for example a water compressor connected by very flexible tubing.

Instead of one arm being referenced to a fixed environment, the two arms are now only referenced to each other.  This is the reason for the term differential.  Who knows, this machine might be able to function (with rotating unbalanced discs) just as well laying on its side or in outer space?  It seems to me that such a machine might be independent of gravity.

What do you think?
I think it would work great.   :)
In fact, I'm almost finished building a rig very similar to what you described. This one is going to be powered manually, through a chain connected to both weights. The weights will be 180 degrees out of phase, on a balanced bar, and I'm taking the output off a third lever that extends down from the fulcrum (the center). I have it set up to swing a third weight in this arm too, but that's later.
I'll start off with just the two weights (10 lbs each) and see what happens. I'm thinking I may need a damping weight on the third leg. I'm hoping that the two weights can get into a resonance and provide some energy back to each other to help keep them rotating. This is where the energy gain should be.
There are a lot of variations that can be tried here. Eventually I want to add a fourth weight and see what happens when I spin the whole thing.
It'll be endless fun.  I'll post some pics if I get my #%$@&*# chain this weekend (been waiting 2 weeks).

Ted

PS, I'll let you know if it takes off.  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 11, 2007, 09:45:45 AM
G'day all,

Still along the same track but no longer a Milkovic device. In this design advantage is taken of centripetal forces only.

The use of counter-rotating weights generates a sinusoidal reciprocating force along the axis of the convergences.

The reciprocal movement thus caused moves a magnet inside a coil back and forth generating electricity.

Have fun with this one. And yes, this will work in space since it does not rely on gravity.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: CHANGE Australia on November 12, 2007, 12:09:41 PM
Hans,

you should do a podcast or something. you'd have at least one listener (me)

i esteem you highly for pursuing energy liberty.

take care and God bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on January 03, 2008, 01:15:13 AM
Abstract of scientific paper by Nebojsa Simin 

FREE ENERGY OF THE OSCILLATING PENDULUM-LEVER SYSTEM
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Nebojsa_Simin_-_scientific_paper_-_abstract.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 03, 2008, 08:49:12 AM
Abstract of scientific paper by Nebojsa Simin 

FREE ENERGY OF THE OSCILLATING PENDULUM-LEVER SYSTEM
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Nebojsa_Simin_-_scientific_paper_-_abstract.pdf

What scientific paper, one page of utter rubbish and he calls that a study?

Have I missed something here?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on January 04, 2008, 12:09:10 AM
It is clearly stated it is an ABSTRACT.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 04, 2008, 04:16:33 AM
Sorry Tamin.

It is utter crap.

It purports to be a scientific paper. This it clearly is not.

An abstract in a scientific paper are the conclusions drawn and statements made as a result of an underlying study. They are aways published together, first the abstract, then the paper proper.

Even though the writer talks about a study supporting his findings he does not furnish it.

This puts the entire effort into the realm of toilet paper, if printed.

These are just a few statements by some idiot who does not know what he is talking about.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on January 04, 2008, 09:37:30 PM
This is what I got from this fellow in response to my asking for a reprint:

"The manuscript will be installed on the same link later. I am waiting for the response from one scientific magazine.
Sincerely
Nebojsa Simin"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 04, 2008, 10:45:59 PM
Thanks Omnibus,

Let us wait then.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on January 14, 2008, 04:17:06 PM
Got a new message from
Veljko Milkovic about another invention of him:


Dear friends,
 
we are glad to present you our new video on Self-heating eco-house concept with 85% energy savings.
 
There is an excerpt from the TV show ?Ugao?, FOX TV (Belgrade, Serbia, 2007) where it is shown Self-heating eco-house with the reflecting surfaces located in Novi Sad (Serbia) owned by Mr. Aleksandar Nikolic who lives in that house with his family more than 12 years and who speaks, in this video, about his positive experience of living in such house stating the advantages of building that eco-house with the reflecting surfaces...
 
Veljko Milkovic (www.veljkomilkovic.com) is the ideological creator (author) of this self-heating eco-house concept with the reflecting surfaces and the owner of this eco-house in Novi Sad (Serbia), Aleksandar Nikolic did a construction project for presented eco-house.
Veljko Milkovic still develops and improves this principle of building the self-heating eco-houses.
 
More info: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/EkoKuca2Eng.html
 
Video on Google Video link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-341523606597835915
 
Best regards.
 
Veljko Milkovic
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on February 10, 2008, 03:57:53 AM
I found this update related to this subject.

Model Builder’s Guide To Understanding Veljko Milkovic’s “Two-stage Mechanical Oscillator”
by Dr Peter Lindemann:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Model_Building_Guidelines_by_Dr_Peter_Lindemann.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 15, 2008, 05:37:58 AM
Here is a new great video of a new pump.
If you have played as a kid with an old  street pump,you would
know how hard it is normally to pump so much water with all
of your weight..

Dear friends,
 
there is a new (old) video of the hand water pump with a pendulum - it is a replication done by Miroslav Zupkov -
the capacity of the pump is 1200 litres per hour.
 
The video is recorded in August 2004 in Novi Sad (Serbia).
 
Video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI
 
More info on the subject:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/rucnaPumpaEng.html
 
Best regards.
 
Veljko Milkovic
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 15, 2008, 10:03:37 AM
This all sounds very good until you look at the figures.

1200 liters is very little. And look at the cumbersome and expensive contraption that delivers it. By comparison a $12.00 bilge pump delivers 1800 liters per hour and runs of a 12 V car battery. A small solar panel can keep the battery charged. The whole set up would be a fraction of the price ofr Milkovic's contraption and you don't have to work it by hand. These kind of pumps are about the size of a man's fist.

No wonder Milkovic is going nowhere.

In case you think I am making this up I am enclosing the pump and price from a current boating supply house in Australia.

Hans von Lieven

Incidentally, this is the Milkovic pump (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/rucnaPumpa_clip_image002.jpg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 15, 2008, 10:37:14 AM
Hi Hans,
do you know, if this pump can draw up the water from 12 Meters deep?

Also 36 Watts still needs a pretty big and expensive solar panel in clouds sky to really get 36 Watts
out constantly, especially in cloudy wintertime over here.

I just compared it, how much water I could draw from a street pump when I was a kid in the 1960s
how much physical body power I needed to draw this much water from the street pump.
You had to apply much more force than shown in this video by just giving it a little swing...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on February 15, 2008, 01:49:13 PM
Hi Hans,
do you know, if this pump can draw up the water from 12 Meters deep?
...

That?s interesting!
Assuming water density at 1000kg/m3 and g rounded at 10m/s2, it would take exactly 40W to pump 1200l/hr from 12m deep. That?s for an ideal pump, of course.

Several questions arise:
1. Is a normal adult person able to deliver 40-50W? I?d say it is, even with one finger in a clever setup, but not for prolonged times. 50W is, in common terms, lifting 5kg to 1m in every second. For how long one can keep up with this effort rate? It depends on physical constitution but this is actually testable and some figures might, in principle, be brought into discussion. On the other hand, classical pumps require a great deal of force (because of small displacement) to achieve the same power. Not everyone is able to apply force over a threshold (especially a child) but nonetheless maybe some are able to expend great amounts of energy (i.e. children running, playing etc. all day long) thus achieving a reasonable mean power over the considered time interval.

2. Before water starts to pour out, the pendulum has to be swing for some time until reaching the designed working amplitude. Consequently, when Milkovic stops pumping, a lot of energy which already exists in the moving pendulum will be lost. It is unfortunate that neither one of these stages is shown in the videos, although they are part of the process and the energy loss may be quite significant if one only needs a small amount of water (i.e. a bucket of 10-12l).

3. By taking two pumps, one of which being classical and one of Milkovic type, it would take maybe just a ?barbecue contest? to have a fair resolution on which is better. Not to mention that both pumps may be electrically driven and scientifically compared.  Lack of such simple tests raises question about OU aspect. Nonetheless, the Milkovic device may be useful in the view of 1 above.

Cheers,
Tinu
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on February 15, 2008, 01:50:12 PM
deleted. double post.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on February 15, 2008, 04:11:24 PM
It is good comparation with the classic water pump.
I remember those pumps in my town too, it would be very hard to pump that after 2-3 minutes.

When we are talking about this, here are some videos showing how people pumping water in Africa even today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWFjKq8NVQY

http://www.fotosearch.com/DVA007/052-0353/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: abassign on February 15, 2008, 06:55:07 PM
Confirm that the power is 40W/s, but the the efficiency of a piston pomp should not overcome 50%. Moreover seem me strange 12 mt, a pomp as that in the film, it should not overcome the 7-8 meters of deep. There am hand pomps that can pump up to 10 mt, but they use other technologies.

Then it is probable that the deep meters are always 6-7 and the liters 1200/h. However the power should be of 40W (50% eff.). However the power should be of 40W (6 mt.) but non more 80W (12 mt.).

The power of 40-80W, developed with an only arm, for a man of average build is not small. Even if the hourly calories are bearable (600 -1200 kcal/h)

I am a lot of curiosity from this tape, more than from that of the light bulbs. It seems really an interesting device to be experimented.
However I don't understand because nobody has built an electric model to testing, in serious way, the characteristics of the device.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 15, 2008, 07:24:05 PM
Hi Hans,
do you know, if this pump can draw up the water from 12 Meters deep?
...

No pump can. The theoretical maximum to which a pump can "draw" water is a little over 10 m assuming a perfect vacuum. Because water pumps generally can only create a partial vacuum and because of friction losses the practical maximum height is around 8 meters, even at that height pumps are not very efficient. These figures are for sea level. In elevated areas the figures are correspondingly less.

I will explain the physics if anyone is interested.

Hans von Lieven


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 15, 2008, 07:35:52 PM


That?s interesting!
Assuming water density at 1000kg/m3 and g rounded at 10m/s2, it would take exactly 40W to pump 1200l/hr from 12m deep. That?s for an ideal pump, of course.

Several questions arise:
1. Is a normal adult person able to deliver 40-50W? I?d say it is, even with one finger in a clever setup, but not for prolonged times. 50W is, in common terms, lifting 5kg to 1m in every second. For how long one can keep up with this effort rate? It depends on physical constitution but this is actually testable and some figures might, in principle, be brought into discussion. On the other hand, classical pumps require a great deal of force (because of small displacement) to achieve the same power. Not everyone is able to apply force over a threshold (especially a child) but nonetheless maybe some are able to expend great amounts of energy (i.e. children running, playing etc. all day long) thus achieving a reasonable mean power over the considered time interval.



Hi Tini,
many thanks for your calculation.

You can already see from the video that the guy swinging the pendulum
is not using 50 Watts of human power..
In my opinion he is only using at maximum maybe 1 Watt of human power to push the pendulum,
if you compare lifting a 5 Kg weight to 1 Meter height in every second..
That would made him very tired very much faster...

So I would say that pump shows already at least an overunity factor of 5 !

Also it is not well built and shakes too much, which still lowers
the efficiency.
If the stand would have been build more solid,
so that it can not rock back and forth, the efficiency would be even higher...


Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Did you ever peddle on a bike that was connected to an electrical  generator with a light bulb
and saw how hard you have to peddle to generate 50 or 100 Watts ?
Almost impossible to do this longer than 10 to 20 seconds !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 15, 2008, 07:53:19 PM
Hi Hans,
do you know, if this pump can draw up the water from 12 Meters deep?
...

No pump can. The theoretical maximum to which a pump can "draw" water is a little over 10 m assuming a perfect vacuum. Because water pumps generally can only create a partial vacuum and because of friction losses the practical maximum height is around 8 meters, even at that height pumps are not very efficient. These figures are for sea level. In elevated areas the figures are correspondingly less.

I will explain the physics if anyone is interested.

Hans von Lieven




Okay, I see, what you mean, because of the normal air pressure,
so these pumps are laid into the 12 Meter deep water directly and pump the 12 Meters up then..
But then they consume probably more power, if you have 12 Meters to overcome.

At least I am convinced now that the shown Milkovic pump has at least an overunity
factor of 5.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on February 15, 2008, 08:28:24 PM
At least I am convinced now that the shown Milkovic pump has at least an overunity
factor of 5.

I think the Milkovic pump clearly aids the individual by providing a mechanical advantage, allowing a person to apply a smaller force over a longer period of time, making the job less strenuous.  Are you sure about the overunity part?

If it is truly 5 times overunity, it should be a trivial matter to set it up to pump water into a container above itself, and then use the power of that water as it falls to run itself.  And this has never been shown.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 15, 2008, 08:47:06 PM
Well, I am pretty sure from this video.
It does not need much energy to start the
pendulum to swing and does not need much power to
keep it swinging...

Definately overunity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 15, 2008, 09:42:34 PM
I am sorry to have to rain on your parade Stefan, but it would appear someone is telling a few lies in relation to this device.

Below you will find some pictures of the pump he uses in his device which I have grabbed off the video.

The actual pump that is being used is an off the shelf item that had the pump handle removed so it could be adapted to his mechanism. The arm with the fulcrum that once held the pump handle is clearly visible in the detail top right. These type of pumps are all over the third world. The United Nations and various charitable organisations have installed hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of them in Africa India and so forth. I have seen, handled and repaired a number of them when I was working in those parts of the world.

There is no way a pump like this can bring up water from 12 meters deep. If you can get it to work at a depth of 5 meters you are doing well.

1200 liters per hour is 20 liters per minute, the equivalent of two standard buckets of water. There is no way a pump of this nature can do this, maybe half that but no more. Have a look in the pictures how thin the stream really is. You need a stream of water a lot better than that to fill even one bucket in one minute. Try it at home if you don't believe me.

This is NOT an independent replication by Miroslav Zupkov as claimed. The device was built for Milkovic who has been demonstrating it since 2002 at least. Miroslav Zupkov is Milkovic's offsider. If you watch some of his other movies you can see Milkovic introducing him as his associate.

At a 5 meter depth with say 500 liters per hour it does not look all that good anymore, does it?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tao on February 15, 2008, 09:43:48 PM
Concerning actual electrical overunity, Milkovic did the test using the hand flashlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8

He showed that using only one of the squeeze flashlights and moving the pendulum with it was rather easy to do, and that on the other end 9 squeeze flashlights where being lit up.

The above video with the flashlights and the video with the pump that you all have been talking about certainly look like overunity...

I know it might be hard to consider a strictly mechanical OU device, as it was/is for me, but it seems it might now be in our midst.

Time will most certainly tell...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: abassign on February 15, 2008, 10:53:43 PM
@hansvonlieven

When I have seen the tape, a few months ago, also I thought it as you, but there are some points by to clarify:
An electric pomp varies water's quantity lifted in function of the depth. Before affirming what you tell, is good to look well at the diagrams with which every pomps is furnished.

For example:
http://www.lgpc.com/ProductFiles/SpecSheets/995117.pdf

This pump at 6 mt. flow 1.800 lt/h with 380 W of power!

If the Milkovic pump flow only 600 lt/h (is possible to think when look the film) end the meters are 6 (may be...) the equivalent electric pump power shuld be 100-120W...

If you observe the tape you will see that the pomp is operated by a finger with the ample movement of the arm, therefore the power engraved to the pendulum should not be small.
We try to calculate it:
1 mt * 2 kg of pressure for the 50% of the application time do around 20 J (20W/s)
If you want to try, tries to move a weight of 2 Kg, with an arm for 1 mt in gym apparatus and you understand how much work him test. Not only, but the structure that sustains the apparatus seems rather underdimension, therefore the efforts applied to it are not small, even if of harmonic nature. To pump the water with a similar pomp is a non small effort, that doesn't seem to be present from the tape, you notice that it uses only a finger, therefore you cannot push, in continuous way, for more than some kg.

Now, let watch the the following fact:

If you try to put in oscillation the pendulum, by lifting and lowering the arm, you will notice that the pendulum doesn't oscillate, If it oscillate is because the junction has some attrition.
When the pendulum is oscillating, this makes to move the arm. Then this apparatus seems a non reversing machine!



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 15, 2008, 11:10:42 PM

We try to calculate it:
1 mt * 2 kg of pressure for the 50% of the application time do around 20 J (20W/s)
If you want to try, tries to move a weight of 2 Kg, with an arm for 1 mt in gym apparatus and you understand how much work him test.


He is not applying 2KG of pressure 1 Meter long.
He is just giving it a small tip each swing,
then the pendulum swings from itsself on.
So your figure of power is not correct.

Let us just say 2 Kg push for 10 cms,
so via the formular:
mxgxh= Energy
you get 2 Kg x 10 x 0.1= 2 Joules,
now devide this by about 2 for half a second is the force applied,
so you just get 1 Watts of input power
which looks fitting,if you look at his face and see, he is not sweating to
push the pendulum...

I guess with all the mechanical friction involved, also if he is only
pumping it up 5 Meters as Hans said, he is still in overunity mode...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on February 16, 2008, 12:27:48 AM
@abassign,

Excellent photo capture!
It proves many points:
1. Look at his finger and notice how much it is back-curved. Try it with yours. You?ll se the force is substantial. He pushes hard.
2. Look at his shoulder and notice how much it is raised. Man is again pushing hard.
3. Look at the red weight. It may easily have 30kg. Look at the height it swings (it?s easy by taking the red lever as reference and compare the vertical distance with the length of his arms). It may swing for 35-40cm on vertical (pendulum radius). Do the math and you?ll see that the weight in its highest position stores maybe close to 100J. That?s quite a significant energy stored there and it came from a person that imparted it BEFORE the camera was turned on. It can probably be done with 1W if bearings are good enough but it will take 100s if no losses at all.
4. If he pushes with his finger with a pressure of only 2kg over the whole arc length, which is pi*r (about 1m, I confirm it hereby), this is indeed 20W. I?ve put myself to test and I found that I could not sustain easily 5kg lifting with one finger for 3minutes (the length of the video), that being roughly 50W. But if I let the finger rest (i.e. during the back swing) it is quite easy. Not comfortable though (hence the finger curvature and the raised shoulder) but doable.
5. Remember that even if not continuously pushed, the pendulum will keep swinging and the system will continue to work for some time due to stored energy.
6. Isn?t it interesting that the movie is not a continuous shooting but it?s made of short added sequences? I?d love to see the unedited version with the pendulum started from rest state followed by continuous pumping for several minutes and the water collected to appreciate its volume?

Cheers,
Tinu
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 16, 2008, 02:02:45 AM
@ abassin,

If you look at the little submersible bilge pump I posted you will see it pumps 1800l of water and uses 36 Watts. Now I doubt it will push 5 m of head, but still, it is easily more than 3 times the water Milkovic's pump moves.

I as well as a number of others have replicated the Milkovic device and found no overunity. In fact I know of no one other than Milkovic that claims over 10 times the input power as output. If it was that big a difference even the sloppiest of replications should show overunity. The fact that it does not speaks for itself.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on February 16, 2008, 07:28:21 AM
Concerning actual electrical overunity, Milkovic did the test using the hand flashlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8

He showed that using only one of the squeeze flashlights and moving the pendulum with it was rather easy to do, and that on the other end 9 squeeze flashlights where being lit up.

The above video with the flashlights and the video with the pump that you all have been talking about certainly look like overunity...

I know it might be hard to consider a strictly mechanical OU device, as it was/is for me, but it seems it might now be in our midst.

Time will most certainly tell...

That is a terrible experiment.

Have you considered that the experimenter is pushing the pendulum with more force than is required to activate the flashlight in hand, and it is that additional energy that is making the experiment possible.

Also, the duration of light is entirely ignored.  The flashlight in the hand is squeezed over the entire time require to push the pendulum (say half-second), while the lights on the other end light up for a much shorter time than that.  And often, not all of the lights even light up.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tao on February 16, 2008, 08:00:22 AM
Concerning actual electrical overunity, Milkovic did the test using the hand flashlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8

He showed that using only one of the squeeze flashlights and moving the pendulum with it was rather easy to do, and that on the other end 9 squeeze flashlights where being lit up.

The above video with the flashlights and the video with the pump that you all have been talking about certainly look like overunity...

I know it might be hard to consider a strictly mechanical OU device, as it was/is for me, but it seems it might now be in our midst.

Time will most certainly tell...

That is a terrible experiment.

Have you considered that the experimenter is pushing the pendulum with more force than is required to activate the flashlight in hand, and it is that additional energy that is making the experiment possible.


Yes, I already considered that, and that is why I didn't definitively say that Milkovic's stuff demonstrates OU, just that it SEEMS like OU and that time will tell.

Yet in still, Milkovic has shown in other videos that the pendulum and it's moving swing/amplitude is NOT affected by the movement of the hammer/lever, period. So, taking that into account, how hard is it to keep a pendulum moving? (rhetorical)

Asymmetry...

Again, time will tell...


Quote

Also, the duration of light is entirely ignored.  The flashlight in the hand is squeezed over the entire time require to push the pendulum (say half-second), while the lights on the other end light up for a much shorter time than that.  And often, not all of the lights even light up.


The second guy in the video is clearly just 'trying it out' and he clearly doesn't have the movements down right, hence he seems to be pushing with the handheld flashlight for much longer than would be required. Plus, there is another video showing how much force it takes by hand to light up even one of those things, and to light up 9 at once, even to light them up for a split second, takes a lot more force, IT SEEMS, than what is being imparted to the pendulum (even though the second guy is inefficient with his movements).

Again, time will tell... I am not claiming that I see OU, but it certainly SEEMS like OU as of right now.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 16, 2008, 08:36:43 AM
When I came across across Veljko Mircovic's work it intrigued me and  I did a little work on the subject. I went as far as building the device. These are my thoughts and observations on the matter

The things that stand out is that he comes across as a sincere man who appears to have stumbled across a phenomenon that traditional science is at a loss to explain. From his demonstrations one could easily come to the conclusion that Newtonian physics do not apply where his arrangement is concerned. That in itself is a dangerous road to travel as it stirs up emotions amongst physicists that, as irrelevant as they should be in science, are nevertheless a very real part of human inter-reaction. Right or wrong, people have a tendency to defend whatever they consider their turf to be.

So what does he do? Veljko Milkovic puts a pendulum on a balance beam with a counter weight on the other side to put the arm into equilibrium and then gets the pendulum to swing. The result is an oscillatory movement of the beam.

(http://www.keelytech.com/news/oscillations/secondary.gif)


So far so good, that is what one would expect. He then claims that the mechanism does not work in reverse. He moves the balance beam from the opposite side up and down with the pendulum at a standstill and the pendulum does not swing. Case proved, Newton's third law is wrong. There is no equal and opposite reaction!

He even has a letter from Peter Lindemann D.Sc. to prove it. Lindemann goes as far as stating that something like Milkovic's discovery only comes around every three hundred years.

Sorry guys, but this is not a valid demonstration.

The demonstration is flawed because Milkovic does not truly reverse the process. If he were to agitate the beam at the natural frequency of the pendulum in even strokes he would soon find out that the pendulum would start to swing and gather momentum as he was feeding energy into it.

If the pendulum at all time was perfectly perpendicular and the fulcrum at all times at that axis the pendulum would only move up and down as there was no energy available to move it sideways. But such is not the case here.

There is horizontal movement, admittedly small, but it is there. That is why it takes a while before the pendulum can store enough energy to exhibit this. Inertia has yet to build up to show noticeable levels of movement.

Milkovic's demonstrations are far too short and uncontrolled to demonstrate this.

Let me explain:

(http://www.keelytech.com/news/oscillations/movement.gif)


The pendulum's fulcrum at the end of the balance beam moves in an arc. As the balance beam goes up the fulcrum's position relative to the pendulum is displaced horizontally as well as vertically.. That means that the pendulum is no longer perpendicular to the earth's centre of gravity. That also means that it has to find a new position.

As the pendulum develops inertia when it is forced into the new position it swings past the natural point of equilibrium and will only return when the energy that has been fed to it is expended. But while it is doing that the balance beam is moving back putting the pendulum even more out of equilibrium, but now in the opposite direction.

So the pendulum swings back to repeat the process over and over again with increased amplitude as long as the introductory impulses are of the same frequency.

The only things that will stop the pendulum behaving in this manner is when the agitation stops or when the agitation is out of step with the natural frequency of the pendulum's oscillations in which case we have created forces that are out of phase with each other and therefore cancel each other out.

Consider the following:

You have a balance beam, but this time you have on each end a pendulum of exactly the same length. This is important since the pendulum's frequency in this case is solely dependent on its length. You now give one pendulum a push and it begins to oscillate. The balance beam behaves as before, going up and down at twice the frequency of the pendulum.

What do you think happens after a while?

This is one of the classical experiments in physics because the effects are unexpected.

Say we have given the right pendulum a push. As it swings there is a noticeable diminishing of amplitude. The left pendulum now starts to pick up momentum, which increases with every loss of inertia on the other side. After a while the right pendulum will come to a standstill with the left one in full swing. Slowly the right pendulum will start to pick up momentum as the left one now starts losing energy. After a while, when the left pendulum's energy is spent the right one is in full swing again. The process keeps repeating itself until all energy is spent through friction, drag and heat. If there were no losses the process would carry on forever.

All this flies right into the face of what Milkovic and Lindemann are saying.

So all this Hoo-Haa about Newton being wrong and that the Milkovic device proves it is a lot of crap.

Try the experiment with a coathanger and two pendula of equal length suspended from it on opposite sides, give one of them a push and observe.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tao on February 16, 2008, 08:59:17 AM
Great post Hans, very illuminating my good man...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 16, 2008, 11:12:04 AM

1200 liters per hour is 20 liters per minute, the equivalent of two standard buckets of water. There is no way a pump of this nature can do this, maybe half that but no more. Have a look in the pictures how thin the stream really is. You need a stream of water a lot better than that to fill even one bucket in one minute. Try it at home if you don't believe me.

This is NOT an independent replication by Miroslav Zupkov as claimed. The device was built for Milkovic who has been demonstrating it since 2002 at least. Miroslav Zupkov is Milkovic's offsider. If you watch some of his other movies you can see Milkovic introducing him as his associate.

At a 5 meter depth with say 500 liters per hour it does not look all that good anymore, does it?


Hi Hans,
to me the water stream coming out of pump looks okay and I can believe
that it is really 1200 Liters per hour.

But even if it would be just 500 Liters at 5 Meters deepth, that would require with an ideal
pump already 6,94 Watts.
But as the pump is not optimal and has lots of friction, I guess you would
need at least 10 Watts all the time.

But the guy never puts in 10 Watts with his arm.
As I calculated it is more like only around 1 to 2 Watts at maximum...

You also neglect, that one arm of the see-saw levers is longer, so it has
already a mechanical advantage.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: abassign on February 16, 2008, 11:53:46 AM
 @hansvonlieven

Excellent the analysis, but it is not the motive for which the object proposed from... it has some strange properties.
I have said that the process is not reversing, or the movement of the arm doesn't influence the oscillation of the pendulum. Non only, the force applicate on the arm not influence the pendulum oscillation. Your clear scheme shows that or move of the arm provokes a move of the pendulum but the energy of the pendulum, at the end of the cycle, it is always nothing.
There is not a transfer of energy between the move of the arm and the pendulum, energy that the pendulum accumulates with visible oscillatory movement.
For instance, if the pendulum oscillates, and I stops the arm, the oscillatory energy in the pendulum remains. From the mechanical point of view, the pendulum is isolated in comparison to the arm, in the direction arm - > pendulum. Instead it is not isolated in the direction pendulum - > arm. The system operates as a sort of diode, the strength applied to the arm, for reaction, can't have influence on the pendulum oscillation.
In mechanics the systems to double pendulum are not often studied, in how much they ask for the calculation of chaotic systems. The study is often made with the theory of the impulse, but the results are always rather scarce, the chaotic systems are not predictable...

However I have wanted to calculate the water flow, it is a simple calculation to do, in how much it is hypothesized a flow of water that is accelerated by the gravity. During the descent, only for the first 10-50 cm, the flow is dominated by the gravity acceleration, therefore it is possible to deduce, through a simple equation, the section that should have the cylinder of water after a certain run.

For example:

0.3 mt is the distance where is possible, from the movie, look a flow water section
9.81 is gravity acceleration
x is the water cylinder diameter

1.2 (m3) is the pump water flow in 3600 seconds

1.2=3600 * (3.14 * (x/2)^2)*sqrt(9.81*0.3)
x we found 1,5 cm of cylinder water diameter

0.6 (m3) is the pump water flow in 3600 seconds

0.6=3600 * (3.14 * (x/2)^2)*sqrt(9.81*0.3)
x we found 1 cm of cylinder water diameter

Is not easy to measure the diameter of water flow, but this two measures are compatible with the film.
Observing where the base the pomp is set it is possible to understand if it deals with a well or of a cistern of harvest of the waters. If it is a cistern the depth it doesn't overcome the 2-3 meters, if a well the depth is surely great.

Note:
I have mistaken saying that a hand pomp cannot work besides the 7-8 mt of depth. it is only a problem of physical effort, there are hand pomp's that also go to 100 mt of depth.

Unfortunately in this moment I am making pure speculation, but it is believable that the depth of the water both among the 12-15 mt, otherwise the pomp would not succeed in working and the 4 meters, otherwise water would be filtered by the ground.

Six meter of deep my be a less value hypothesis.
Ten meter of deep my be a hight value hypothesis.

At this point it is possible to get a whole hypothesis related to the necessary power to pomp the water:

6 mt - 0,6 m3/h -> 10W with a pump eff. 50% -> 20W
6 mt - 1,2 m3/h -> 20W with a pump eff. 50% -> 40W

10mt - 0,6 m3/h -> 16W with a pump eff. 50% -> 32W
10mt - 1,2 m3/h -> 32W with a pump eff. 50% -> 64W


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: capthook on February 19, 2008, 10:24:39 AM
Man - what a thread!!  Took hours to read it all.  GOOD STUFF   :o

Is it COP>1 ?  Sure seems to be more work done ie. pumping water than energy input ie. hand flick.

The believers make some great arguments - as do the skeptics.

12:1 ?  2:1 would great.  No matter the case - I agree the problem comes with the irregularity of the pulses and syncing them up to create a working OU system.  Lot's of cool ideas presented. 

(I like Hans' airpump diagram  8) )

At this point - I believe OU could be possible with his device - just a matter of engineering the loop??  Wish the inventor showed some good measurements.....
AND wish we could read some of his patents in full....

Anyone have English versions of his full patents relating to these devices??  ???


CH
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: capthook on February 19, 2008, 11:11:49 AM
A screen shot from one of his videos (Universal Two-State Mechanical Oscillator -- A Mechanical Amplifier - near the end) showing a (split-second view) of a diagram of what appears to be an attempt by the inventor to close the loop.

Looks like a piston driving a wheel, powering a generator, powering an electro-magnet repulsing the pendulum at the far right swing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: capthook on February 19, 2008, 11:34:16 AM
Hans - (or anyone)  ;D

I've tried to implement a "spiral" cog like this... always results in too much friction as well as a "braking effect" on the transition.
Any recommendations on an ideal way to do this?  Materials to use?  etc?  Have you implemented this design component before?  Successfully?

Many thanks in advance,

CH
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 19, 2008, 12:32:46 PM
Hans - (or anyone)  ;D

I've tried to implement a "spiral" cog like this... always results in too much friction as well as a "braking effect" on the transition.
Any recommendations on an ideal way to do this?  Materials to use?  etc?  Have you implemented this design component before?  Successfully?

Many thanks in advance,

CH

These types of cams are quite common. The problem you are having is that there is not enough energy in the system to drive it.

The earlier post is Milkovic's think on how to achieve a closed loop. The problem with this design is that the stroke lengths vary. When the pendulum swings towards the fulcrum the stroke length is different to when it swings away from it. A crankshaft as depicted requires even stroke lengths in order to function.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on February 19, 2008, 04:01:36 PM
I watched the video Universal Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator -- A Mechanical Amplifier again - and it seems to me that the part where this diagram is shown is something like what is copied from internet - I noticed some letters, more diagrams, printed copy of peswiki article, printed copy of this overunity forum topic... so probably this diagram is also something copied from the web...

I tried some google search and I found this forum with the same diagram and Italian description on that diagram that cannot be clearly seen in the video:
http://energierinnovabili.forumcommunity.net/?t=4759206&st=75
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: capthook on February 19, 2008, 06:40:30 PM
Thanks for your replies -

Talmin -
Good find - much better picture. (see attached)

Hans -

"The problem with this design is that the stroke lengths vary."
I agree - as the problem comes with the irregularity of the pulses and syncing them up to create a working OU system.

As to the cog - the attached modified diagram shows the upper point as a bearing reducing friction rather than a static point greatly.  The "spiral" would ideally have a bearing as well?  How to get it to "travel" the "spiral"?  Hmmm - I guess I could put a multiple of bearings around the the length of spiral.... adding a lot of weight... but improving performance?  Even if "there is not enough energy in the system to drive it" - if there was - it would still be ideal to maximize performance by overcoming the friction produced in the original diagram by some such method?
Ideas of better ways to do this?

CH
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: capthook on February 19, 2008, 07:11:12 PM
More directly:

I'm trying to move the pendulum from the 6 o'clock position by 45 degrees to the right applying the spiral cog to the pendulum support.  As such - attaching a bearing to the pendulum "strut" is no good as the angle changes and frustrates proper contact - there by the need to have bearing/bearings on the "spiral" of the cog.  How to reduce the friction/impact of the spiral on the pendulum "strut"??

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on February 19, 2008, 11:06:52 PM
@all,

having looked at this site,since the beginning and doing several experiments, i now realize that you can't take the power off of the center fulcrum, without killing the effect.  there is simply not enough torque.  however looking at the water pumping proplems with a very innefficient type of pump even,  i have to ask the stupid question,  has noone ever heard of a "foot valve"?  it seems to work much like a diode, only allowing water to flow in one direction.   when used with air it can effectively increase the distance verticaly that you can pump water by the use of an air tank with a bladder.

it seems to me if we can develop enough head pressure, whith water, and the right water turbine, we should be able to have a closed loop, where we can run the pendulum with the power generated.

lol
sam
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on February 20, 2008, 01:45:24 AM
@all,

having looked at this site,since the beginning and doing several experiments, i now realize that you can't take the power off of the center fulcrum, without killing the effect.  there is simply not enough torque.  however looking at the water pumping proplems with a very innefficient type of pump even,  i have to ask the stupid question,  has noone ever heard of a "foot valve"?  it seems to work much like a diode, only allowing water to flow in one direction.   when used with air it can effectively increase the distance verticaly that you can pump water by the use of an air tank with a bladder.

it seems to me if we can develop enough head pressure, whith water, and the right water turbine, we should be able to have a closed loop, where we can run the pendulum with the power generated.

lol
sam

Did you come from the Lead Out thread?  Lawrence Tseung goes on at length about the benefits of a foot pump, one way valves, and mixing air and water.  You should probably read his experiments if you are not familiar with them.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: capthook on February 21, 2008, 03:57:44 AM
Hi all -

I'm trying to move the pendulum from the 6 o'clock position by 45 degrees to the right applying the rotor "fins" to the pendulum.    The "fins" slope push the pendulum, allowing it to drop at the end of the "fin".

How to reduce the friction/impact to minimize rotor speed reduction?  Materials?  Bearings?  Designs?

Scratch this idea and instead do "_____" ?

Thanks for any ideas!

CH


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Prophmaji on February 21, 2008, 04:30:35 AM
Gravity is a polarized, oriented gradient.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Now...what does that mean...concerning inertia?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 21, 2008, 07:20:02 AM
G?day all.

Quote from my post 601 page 41 this thread.

Consider the following:

You have a balance beam, but this time you have on each end a pendulum of exactly the same length. This is important since the pendulum's frequency in this case is solely dependent on its length. You now give one pendulum a push and it begins to oscillate. The balance beam behaves as before, going up and down at twice the frequency of the pendulum.

What do you think happens after a while?

This is one of the classical experiments in physics because the effects are unexpected.

Say we have given the right pendulum a push. As it swings there is a noticeable diminishing of amplitude. The left pendulum now starts to pick up momentum, which increases with every loss of inertia on the other side. After a while the right pendulum will come to a standstill with the left one in full swing. Slowly the right pendulum will start to pick up momentum as the left one now starts losing energy. After a while, when the left pendulum's energy is spent the right one is in full swing again. The process keeps repeating itself until all energy is spent through friction, drag and heat. If there were no losses the process would carry on forever.

All this flies right into the face of what Milkovic and Lindemann are saying.

So all this Hoo-Haa about Newton being wrong and that the Milkovic device proves it is a lot of crap.

Try the experiment with a coathanger and two pendula of equal length suspended from it on opposite sides, give one of them a push and observe.

Hans von Lieven


To which I received this reply from abassign:

@hansvonlieven

Excellent the analysis, but it is not the motive for which the object proposed from... it has some strange properties.
I have said that the process is not reversing, or the movement of the arm doesn't influence the oscillation of the pendulum. Non only, the force applicate on the arm not influence the pendulum oscillation. Your clear scheme shows that or move of the arm provokes a move of the pendulum but the energy of the pendulum, at the end of the cycle, it is always nothing.

There is not a transfer of energy between the move of the arm and the pendulum, energy that the pendulum accumulates with visible oscillatory movement.
For instance, if the pendulum oscillates, and I stops the arm, the oscillatory energy in the pendulum remains.  From the mechanical point of view, the pendulum is isolated in comparison to the arm, in the direction arm - > pendulum. Instead it is not isolated in the direction pendulum - > arm. The system operates as a sort of diode, the strength applied to the arm, for reaction, can't have influence on the pendulum oscillation.

In mechanics the systems to double pendulum are not often studied, in how much they ask for the calculation of chaotic systems. The study is often made with the theory of the impulse, but the results are always rather scarce, the chaotic systems are not predictable...


Wrong.

There is transfer of energy through the balance arm. No increase of energy is observable, the total energy in the system is static.

I have made a computer simulation of my proposed demonstration using WorkingModel2005. Only gravity has been programmed into the model, no drag or friction has been allowed for to show what happens in the system without outside influence in an ideal scenario. If there was any excess energy it would show up here since there are no other influencing factors.

I repeat it again, Milkovic cheats.
The demonstration of his that allegedly proves that Newton does not apply where his system is concerned is flawed, as I already pointed out in post 601.

Here is the proof.

I am sorry the avi of the simulation is very large (38MB) but I wanted to show a complete cycle.

You can clearly see the transfer of energy, very slow and almost unnoticeable at first and then speeding up as the process accelerates until all energy is transferred, at which point the cycle reverses.

Newton?s laws remain intact and so does CoE. There is NO overunity in the device as designed by Milkovic.

Hans von Lieven

As I cannot upload the avi to the server here because of its size I have put it on my website.
http://keelytech.com/overunity/milkovicdouble.avi you can download it from there.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gaby de wilde on February 21, 2008, 09:56:00 AM
Hi all -

I'm trying to move the pendulum from the 6 o'clock position by 45 degrees to the right applying the rotor "fins" to the pendulum.    The "fins" slope push the pendulum, allowing it to drop at the end of the "fin".

How to reduce the friction/impact to minimize rotor speed reduction?  Materials?  Bearings?  Designs?

Scratch this idea and instead do "_____" ?

Thanks for any ideas!

CH

I don't think I had seen that concept before.

This is a great idea I think. I don't really care what anyone else thinks, I like it :-)

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=17840;image)

gradually push the pendulum sidewards.

Bessler describes that.

Clocks of course use an escapement mechanism.

As a note:

Keep looking for ways to make gravity powered devices.

I already know how to do it but I'm trying to find attention for my permanent magnet overunity invention.

http://forum.go-here.nl/viewtopic.php?p=750
View topic - Perpetual motion made simple.

That anyone can understand.

 ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PulsedPower on February 21, 2008, 10:02:36 AM
Just a thought on how to drive this and extract power from it. Variable reluctance driver triggered by a position sensor to drive the pendulum as shown in the italian diagram and a magnet or a stack of magnets moving past a slotted pole piece with a coil to extract power from the magnetic circuit, better known as a linear motor (generator in this case) rectify the output from the coil use the DC to run the pendulum exciter. No problem with variable stroke, cyclic linear motors like this are well proven in the refrigeration and cryogenic fields where they are used to drive compressors.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 21, 2008, 11:01:51 AM


Newton?s laws remain intact and so does CoE. There is NO overunity in the device as designed by Milkovic.

Hans von Lieven

As I cannot upload the avi to the server here because of its size I have put it on my website.
http://keelytech.com/overunity/milkovicdouble.avi you can download it from there.


Hi Hans,
nice animation. Well done.
Yes, now I see, what you mean.

You mean a 2 coupled oscillator system where the energy swings from one
oscillator back to the other oscillator and back and forth again.

Well, maybe you can post your WM2D file.

I think the Milkovic device can only work,
if the 2 fulcrum lever arms have a different length.
Then there is the needed asymmetry there and THEN
ONLY can the gravity energy conversion work.

The principle to extract gravity energy is to modify the weight
of one fulcrum lever arm and thus lift the other arm up and down
with a much higher force x distance = Energy.

This can only work, if both lever arms have a different length.

So your example does not fit or just describes the case
where the energy amplification has a factor = 1 so COP = 1.

You have to choose the right setup parameters to get COP > 1
that means to set the lever arm length on each side right.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Also we have another slightly different setup as in your example,
cause we "rectify" the motion of the pendulum who does the output load work
(pump action in the last example)
cause we just lift and release a weight VERTICALLY, so it can not swing
horizontally, so we "rectify" or "limit" the dimensions it can swing in...( so to say)

If you look again to the guy who is pushing the pendulum at the blue
pump, no way he is using more than 1 to 2 Watts for this action
and the pump needs at least 10 Watts including all the friction to pump up
the water.
Also you see, that it also does not use the leverage of blue pump handle
which you can see, that it is not used anymore, so the
Milkovic lever arm has to pull the pump rod with lots of force
to directly lift the water up.
So the pump device has at least a COP of 5 in my opinion.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 21, 2008, 05:56:16 PM


Hi Hans,

...................Well, maybe you can post your WM2D file.


Not a problem Stefan. Here it is:

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: capthook on February 21, 2008, 06:01:22 PM
Upon further evaluation ? I?m not sure it?s over-unity.  In fact ? I think what the device/principle is really doing is:

Applying a long stroke/low power impulse to the pendulum

And converting it to a short stroke/high power impulse to the anvil end.

Thus ? just changing the frequency of the energy.

Someone earlier mentioned something along these lines - to long a topic to search for who......

Anyway ? the device and ideas are interesting.  It?s application as a water pump seems efficient.  Low power applied to pendulum results in high power driving the pump.  Thus the ?work? required by the user is reduced significantly.

A small, elderly woman could do the work that would normally require a strong, young man to do.

- - -

No takers on refinement ideas for my "cog fins" idea?

CH
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 21, 2008, 06:41:29 PM
Upon further evaluation ? I?m not sure it?s over-unity.  In fact ? I think what the device/principle is really doing is:

Applying a long stroke/low power impulse to the pendulum

And converting it to a short stroke/high power impulse to the anvil end.

Thus ? just changing the frequency of the energy.


That is exactly what it is doing CH.

As far as your cog fin idea is concerned this cannot work as drawn. The pendulum must receive a short sharp push at the correct time in order to absorb energy. Anything else will be counterproductive.

You have two cycles of the working end lever to every one cycle of the pendulum. What you must do is to store that energy and release it in one burst at the correct time. Your arrangement cannot do this.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on February 21, 2008, 07:54:52 PM
@hansvonlieven
Quote
I have made a computer simulation of my proposed demonstration using WorkingModel2005. Only gravity has been programmed into the model, no drag or friction has been allowed for to show what happens in the system without outside influence in an ideal scenario. If there was any excess energy it would show up here since there are no other influencing factors.

LOL, hans you don't honestly believe a 2bit simulation can accurately describe reality do you  :'(, the first real lesson I learned in the field is that all the sims and calculations in the world cannot prepare you for reality, it has a way of making even the most educated persons look silly sometimes.
I have built the balance beam-dual pendulum on precision bearings, fully adjustable, using weights from 5 to 15 lbs, and I would agree that there is a large oscillation(beat) or transfer of energy between the pendulums . But there is more to see than your simulation is going to show you, one is the fact that the balance beam moves with this beat through a given range of motion proportional to the pendulums period of oscillation, another is that a dampening effect in the beat has no relevance to the period of oscillation in the pendulums nor to the transfer of energy. Another is that should the period of oscillation be very large the balance beam will make 360 Deg rotations and in the right context the upper pendulum will fall through a vertical line drawn through the center of rotation and accelerate the balance beam, I learned all this in 15 minutes ---- Milkovic has been doing this for Years---- you do the math on that one.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 21, 2008, 08:22:01 PM
@ allcanadian,

The main reason for the simulation was to show that the Milkovic demonstration where he moves the balance arm and states that this does not introduce oscillations in the pendulum is wrong.

Having built various versions of the Milkovic device I am aware that a simulation of this kind does not completely show everything there is to know, but for the purpose stated the simulation is valid and shows the interactions of forces accurately.

Milkovic states that the movement of the balance arm does not influence the behaviour of the pendulum. This is also wrong as it clearly does.

Try the following experiment. Use the Milkovic arrangement with the counterweight on the other arm as designed and doing some work as in hammering an anvil. Start the pendulum with a measured push, let it run its course until all energy is expended and the pendulum comes to a standstill. Count the number of oscillations.

Next clamp the balance arm and from the same starting position and with the same amount of push repeat the experiment. Count the number of oscillations.

Perhaps then you will see what I am driving at.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on February 21, 2008, 09:07:50 PM
@ hansvonlieven
Quote
Try the following experiment. Use the Milkovic arrangement with the counterweight on the other arm as designed and doing some work as in hammering an anvil. Start the pendulum with a measured push, let it run its course until all energy is expended and the pendulum comes to a standstill. Count the number of oscillations.
I tried this experiment as well,  I could not make anything work as claimed but have yet to admit it cannot be done.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 21, 2008, 09:22:49 PM
@ hansvonlieven

I tried this experiment as well,  I could not make anything work as claimed but have yet to admit it cannot be done.


@ allcanadian,

I never said it cannot be done.

All I am saying is that the device as designed by Milkovic does not produce OU. There may be a way of doing this, but it would require major modifications, the nature of which I am presently uncertain of.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: abassign on February 21, 2008, 11:37:26 PM
@hansvonlieven

If you move toward the fulcrum of the arm of lever the weight of right, the system it behaves in different way. The weight of left salt and it regularly goes down in how much the program of simulation for smaller angles has smaller errors. I have worked in the programs of mechanical simulation as the CSMP, and I know that the simulation happens through enough exact differential equations for small variations, but less and less exact for ample variations.
Don't trust too much such programs, kind if, as in the case of Milkovic we enter the world of the chaotic motions. Sooner or later the pendulum of left certainly starts to scillate, but more than I approach to the right weight, and therefore I considerably increase the mass of it, different it will be the behavior of the left weight. Is sure that there are couples of values, both in the masses of the pendulums and for the positions of application point, that can bring to a stable system as the Lagrangian point L1-L2-L3 of the planet orbits.
The interaction among the two masses is of fact an action of smaller order, respect other actions measured by Milkovic. As I already told you, the system of Milkovic seems to operate as a diode, obviously it doesn't create energy.
Then it doesn't seem to produce energy, but simply to exploit it in correct way.
However it needs to make some measures him to a real device, that operates under the same chaotic conditions of the Milkovic device.
However the example from you done it is stupendous for his genial simplicity!

Ciao
Adriano

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 22, 2008, 01:38:17 AM
Hi Hans and all,
I also played with it and I came up with a setup
that describes the Milkovic setup much better.

Have a look at the encoded video also.

Here are the files attached.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 22, 2008, 07:42:31 AM
G'day Stefan,

As you probably know by now I do most of my work very early in the morning. I usually get up somewhere around 4 o'clock and work until mid-day. Then I do other things until I've had enough. It is 5:30 PM now and I have had a couple of beers and my thinking is not at its best anymore. I have downloaded your WM file and had a quick look at it.

It deserves serious study, not a quick reply. So please bear with me, I will give it due attention and let you know my thoughts on the matter when I am convinced I have seen it right.

Greetings from Australia to you and the old country

Hans von Lieven

@ adriano,

I am aware of the dilemma. Please look at page 37 post 552 this thread and at this : http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=14178

Hans
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: abassign on February 22, 2008, 09:54:33 AM
@hansvonlieven
@Stefan

But it is so difficult that someone can build a replica of the invention of Milkovic and to make some appropriate measures ?

Ciao
Adriano
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PulsedPower on February 22, 2008, 01:10:11 PM
Pmotion, the problem with your perpetual flow device is that the liquid head in the left hand pipe is greater than the head in the right hand pipe from the top to the siphon break (reservior discharge) The fluid will flow backward to what you are expecting and will come out of the lower RHS funnel until enough air is drawn into the system though the reservoir discharge to reduce the head on the LHS. The system may become unstable and oscillate dumping all the reservoir water but accepting none of it into the funnel. You should try it just to get a feel for a bit of fluid dynamics/statics

There was mention of hand pumps achieving 100M lift in this thread, sure by using a down the well pump with a long pump rod, a 100m lift is possible. There is nothing to indicate that the pump shown is a down the well pump it appears to have a bend in the pipe going into it's base in one shot. Down the well pumps are not very portable, needing to have the rod and casing assembled on site, in which case a practical suction limit would be 6M at sea level and it may be almost impossible to get it to prime at 6M if the piston seal isn't close to perfect.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on February 22, 2008, 05:08:34 PM
@ hansvonlieven
I did not mean to imply you said this cannot be done, I meant that I have yet to convince myself that this cannot be done. I didn't mention one thing I found in my experiments you guys may find  very interesting. In the dual pendulum balance beam we could say the total mass and all forces revolve around the fulcrum, the fulcrum is the center of power, without it the system would collapse. In my experiment I found the fulcrum could be "moved" away from the center of balance when one end of the balance beam was within a range of 30 Degrees from level without expending work as the fulcrum is moving horizontally and is never in a condition of having to lift the beam to find its center. As well the fulcrum and the base are under the influence of the system as a whole when forces within the system change, I think this is what Milkovic is getting at, a large force acting over a small distance ---- work extracted at the perfect moment when it can have very little effect on the system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 22, 2008, 05:14:40 PM
@hansvonlieven
@Stefan

But it is so difficult that someone can build a replica of the invention of Milkovic and to make some appropriate measures ?

Ciao
Adriano

There have been many replications of Milkovic's system. NONE have shown OU!

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 22, 2008, 06:26:55 PM
G'day Stefan and all.

Quote
Hi Hans and all,
I also played with it and I came up with a setup
that describes the Milkovic setup much better.

I agree that this is a fair simulation of what happens in a Milkovic device. I have made some alterations to your simulation in order to show what I was talking about in my earlier post, which i will repeat here for convenience's sake.

@ allcanadian,

The main reason for the simulation was to show that the Milkovic demonstration where he moves the balance arm and states that this does not introduce oscillations in the pendulum is wrong.

Having built various versions of the Milkovic device I am aware that a simulation of this kind does not completely show everything there is to know, but for the purpose stated the simulation is valid and shows the interactions of forces accurately.

Milkovic states that the movement of the balance arm does not influence the behaviour of the pendulum. This is also wrong as it clearly does.

Try the following experiment. Use the Milkovic arrangement with the counterweight on the other arm as designed and doing some work as in hammering an anvil. Start the pendulum with a measured push, let it run its course until all energy is expended and the pendulum comes to a standstill. Count the number of oscillations.

Next clamp the balance arm and from the same starting position and with the same amount of push repeat the experiment. Count the number of oscillations.

Perhaps then you will see what I am driving at.

Hans von Lieven

All I have done is to duplicate your balance arm arrangement and fixed it in space so it does not perform work anymore. All other parameters are identical. Now watch what happens to the energy stored in the pendulum as the two simulations run simultaneously.

I did not have a simulation programme when I first did my experiments so I had to build the device. Let me assure you this is exactly what I found and judging by his post this is also what allcanadian observed in his replication.

I am only uploading the wm2d file as I have only a landline available here and uploading large avi's is a pain in the butt. Perhaps you would be so kind and do this so everybody can see the simulation.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 22, 2008, 08:15:50 PM
G'day again,

I have done a very short avi of the simulation which nevertheless gives a clear idea of what happens to the energy in the Milkovic system. For those of you that have the programme you will have to let it run to 28000 to see the full cycle. You will notice that the bottom pendulum moves for just under 8 minutes longer than the pendulum that is performing work.

Anyway, have a look at this:

Hans von Lieven

Sorry, something went wrong here with the transcription
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 22, 2008, 09:17:17 PM
Sorry guys,

This one does not work either.

Notice how the top pendulum slows down after every impact in direct ratio to the force of the impact as energy is transferred to the anvil.

My apologies for the f*ck up  >:(

Hans von Lieven

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 22, 2008, 09:36:23 PM
deleted

Hans
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 22, 2008, 11:06:30 PM
I still don't know what went wrong, something to do with the overunity server.

I uploaded the file to my website, it plays from there, I checked.

http://keelytech.com/overunity/milkovic_harti_hans.avi        file size just over 9 MB

Sorry about all the stuff ups on this one, it has been a harrowing morning but I wanted you guys to have a look at this.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 25, 2008, 01:45:01 AM
G?day all,

Today I will share with you one of my research simulations in regard to Milkovic and secondary oscillations.

The objective was to compare various configurations that made use of secondary oscillations and compare them to a pendulum of the same length oscillating at its natural frequency. I also wanted to find the source of  the erratic behaviour as observed in Milkovic?s apparatus and others I have built.

Milkovic states that the secondary oscillation does not influence the movement of the pendulum. This is demonstrably untrue.

In this animation there are 9 simulations in all of which only B does not generate secondary oscillations.

All pendula are of equal length so they all have the same natural frequency. Only B runs on it, all others vary to more or less a degree from the natural and must therefore be considered forced oscillations. Some other force feeds back to influence detrimentally the natural frequency of the pendulum.

This is not easily discernible in individual experiments, it only really shows up when the different set-ups are put side by side with the same starting point relative to the pendulum?s fulcrum and started simultaneously.

It looks like i cannot post the avi again so will have to resort to my website once more. The avi is on http://keelytech.com/overunity/milkovic2.avi

A screenshot is below.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PulsedPower on February 25, 2008, 02:23:53 AM
@hansvonlieven

Nice demo, much easier than going into the garage for a few days making the stuff, What software was used?

@Pmotion
Quote
One problem with a pendulum is its' swing. As its' fulcrum is being lifted, the bob could lose angular momentum. This would be because as it swings upward, the fulcrum would also be moving upward. A self canceling of the motion.
 The fulcrum would need to be lifted precisely when the bob is at its' apex. Any other time and it would be a self nullifying movement.

You got it, now the problem with lifting the bob of mass m is that you are doing work mgh to lift the bob, you might as well do the work on the end of the lever and get rid of the bob all together.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shimondoodkin on February 25, 2008, 03:08:07 AM
in these animations i see a strange behavior
when the 2nd pendulum is at the highest point the mass of the 1st pendulum is dragged by gravity and then the 2nd pendulum moves back and moves the 1st with its force
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 25, 2008, 08:18:18 AM
@ PulsedPower,

The programme is WorkingModel2005

@ shimondoodkin,

There is a lot more strange behaviour going on than this. I am working on an analysis of the various forces involved in this kind if scenario.

I believe I understand now the physics involved in this. My paper on the subject is maybe a week or two off, so please have patience.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gurangax on February 27, 2008, 01:11:45 PM
why dont you guys use the device to compress air and use the air compression to run a gravity wheel. and from the gravity wheel use a bit output to oscillate the pendulum. It might just work like that.

-regards-
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 27, 2008, 06:03:38 PM
@ gurangax

What is a "Gravity Wheel"? Don't you mean a flywheel?

You can do all sorts of things with it, the sad fact is that there is not enough energy in the system to drive itself.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: helmut on February 27, 2008, 06:47:59 PM
why dont you guys use the device to compress air and use the air compression to run a gravity wheel. and from the gravity wheel use a bit output to oscillate the pendulum. It might just work like that.

-regards-

@gurangax
Why to go via air? Do you know the fuelles design of their Gravity engine?

Just have a look at it and than emagine to change the air zylinder against a milkovich device.

I have not testet yet.But i think it is worth to do so.

helmut
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on February 29, 2008, 06:06:52 PM
I haven't readen all th thread... an admin should left only "conclusive" comments on this thread.

I have to add my 2 cents... well i think i can.

For what i see, this system produces more energy in form of torque.

What we need to do is use a rotaing motor to rotate an unbalanced flywheel lets say, with 10kg on one end.  Let's start with the weight in the dead upper centre and apply current to the motor only to accelerate it enough (when going down only at the first 15 or 20 degrees i thnk) to complete the revolution and do it again.

Because of kinetic force involved in the rotation of the unbalanced flywheel, the motor should not need to be really powerfull, because we are starting rotation from dead upper centre, so the wieght itself gives the power to the system to complete the revolution when you add the acceleration.

Then measure how much power we use on every revolution (obviously watts).

Then maybe use the same "flashlight" generator he used to see if we can obtain more watts than used on the "unbalanced flywheel motor", and probably attach the flashlight generators to a capacitors, with a mechanical relay on the arm to sent the power from capacitor to the motor.

If this work then i'm the winner of the contest??? Because i live in Panama and my salary isn't enough for sustain my family, i have too many debts right now.

I think this is the simpliest way to make the close loop and will work but have not enough money to build it.  Should i close my mouth, because the calculations of other members shows that the device will not offer any OU?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: eugene-g on March 03, 2008, 01:42:11 AM
Greetings!
I took the time to read all 43 pages of this discussion. Very interesting and promising.
I'm going to try and build this device, but I would like to break this process into multiple phases.
First, I want to find a way to sustain the amplitude of the pendulum motion without attaching it to the lever.
The two questions I have for this forum:

1 Would it make sense to use a low friction ball-bearing  as a pivot or is there a more efficient way
2 Is it worthwhile to experiment with using a permanent magnet add an additional pool to the bob when it is nearing the point zero-gravity

Look forward to your suggestions.

-Eugene
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 03, 2008, 04:55:57 PM
How you plan to complete the close loop?  I belive the way i say is the most easy to do it, and because to make an unbalanced flywheel starting at dead upper center to complete a turn, you need only a small and not really powerfull motor.  You could use a heavy weight and a geared small motor.  That's why i think this system can work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 03, 2008, 06:08:00 PM
Ok... look at the model i did.

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.jpg)

For me it's interesting that applying a force of 6.6N allows you to lift a mass of 50Kg.  And applying 6.6N only allows you to lift 0.673Kg.

Can this allows us to use a generator geared like the next one, and charge capacitors to generate the 6.6N of force to spin the flywheel?

(http://www.learningthings.us/acatalog/Kineticflashlight.jpg)

Here is my model.

http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.wm2d (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.wm2d)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 03, 2008, 10:22:13 PM
Ok... look at the model i did.

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.jpg)

For me it's interesting that applying a force of 6.6N allows you to lift a mass of 50Kg.  And applying 6.6N only allows you to lift 0.673Kg.

Can this allows us to use a generator geared like the next one, and charge capacitors to generate the 6.6N of force to spin the flywheel?

(http://www.learningthings.us/acatalog/Kineticflashlight.jpg)

Here is my model.

http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.wm2d (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.wm2d)

You need to turn on Air Resistance. Go to World>Air Resistance>Hight Speed
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 03, 2008, 10:47:21 PM
Hansvonlieven, what's your opinion?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 04, 2008, 05:44:35 AM
@ Scorpile

You are not moving 50 kg.

In a finely balanced system such as this it needs only a sparrows fart to tip the scales. All you are doing is disturbing an equilibrium, not doing any work.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 04, 2008, 10:51:38 PM
@Scorpile
Please post a movie.

I am not at home where I have my WM2D setup.

Do you say, you can lift a 50 Kg weight how high with 6.6 Newton force ?

Normally it would only lift 0.673Kg ?

I still think Hans is wrong with his assumptions,
cause he models his setups wrong.

You have to restrict your motion of the weight lifting side
to the up and down plane ( Y-plane) by mechanical means
like in Milkovic?s latest blue pump
and that is where Hans?s models are wrong.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 04, 2008, 10:59:37 PM
G'day Stefan and all,

My model only ever intended to show what happens in the system with various arrangements where no actual work is being done and where the movement is unrestricted.

In other words I am showing its behaviour at maximum.

Any clamping or restrictions imposed on top of this will cost energy, not add it.

Hans von Lieven

Edit:

BTW   I don't know what you are talking about when you say New blue pump.

(http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/rucnaPumpa_clip_image002.jpg)

This picture of the exact same pump was taken in 2002 ! All he did was take a picture of it in a different setting
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 04, 2008, 11:00:14 PM
As:
F= m x g

m= F / g

Energy= m x g x h = F x g x h / g = F x h

it depends how high you can lift your 50 Kg weight
with 6.6 Newton force ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on March 04, 2008, 11:23:03 PM
...
BTW   I don't know what you are talking about when you say New blue pump.

(http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/rucnaPumpa_clip_image002.jpg)

This picture of the exact same pump was taken in 2002 ! All he did was take a picture of it in a different setting

Lol!
I?ve never seen that picture, nor could I ever imagine it is that old!
Besides, it looks like taken during a fair. I doubt there is a water-well beneath the pump. So, water might be only re-circulated from the red bucket and useful work done is very, very low. No wonder that pump is easy to run. If water was not re-circulated, one can bet that curious visitors like me would have pumped tens of minutes just for convincing themselves but then, at 1200liters/min? where would hundreds of liters of water went? Clearly not on the ground.

Lol again and end of story.
Cheers,
Tinu
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 04, 2008, 11:32:23 PM
@ Tinu,

It is obvious he is pumping it from the red bucket back into the red bucket. And yes, you are right this picture was taken of his exhibit in some agricultural show in Serbia.

Hans von Lieven

BTW I got the dates slightly wrong. Milkovic on his website adds the following commentary to this picture

Quote
Picture 1. Public presentation of the hand water pump with a pendulum during the Agricultural Fair in Novi Sad (Serbia), 2003. The invention won a gold medal during the 2002 fair.

So, the pump was made in or before 2002, the picture was taken in 2003.

My apologies for the mix up. It doesn't alter anything though, does it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tinu on March 04, 2008, 11:54:31 PM
Many thanks Hans!
... and Tinu out of this thread.  ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 05, 2008, 02:42:57 PM
But look at these models... there are all the same...

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/forces2.jpg)

By just adjusting the Dead Upper Center of the flywheel and reverse the rotation, i can lift the 50 Kg BLUE BOX on the right using 5.6 N force, and keep the flywheel rotating.  That's the upper left model.

On the upper right model, placing the flywheel on Dead Lower Center, and aplying the 5.6 N force to the center of the flywheel as the system should do... don't moves the weight.

On the down center model, i needed to apply 100 N of force to do what i have in the upper left model.

I am missing something?  Heres the model:  http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.wm2d (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.wm2d)

Heres the video 2.2 MB http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.avi (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.avi)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 05, 2008, 06:03:33 PM
My model only ever intended to show what happens in the system with various arrangements where no actual work is being done and where the movement is unrestricted.

But in my model i found that if you restrict the movement, you need even less power to keep the flywheel rotating.  Like 2 N only.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on March 05, 2008, 08:20:52 PM
Heres the video 2.2 MB http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.avi (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.avi)
Well, the problem when comparing these designs is that topleft design's 50 KG weight raises for a moment only whereas design with 100N force lifts the weight for some time struggling with gravity. Probably the first design is just more efficient at raising the weight since it does it quicker. Even though, I've not found any efficiency estimations of using E=mgh in practical situation, in reality time also matters. E=mgh is valid for free fall only. When raising the weight to the same height you should do it in a speed of light just to be sure you are not loosing energy, because levitation requires energy. However, it's hard to measure it using well known physics equations. One of the problems was mentioned by me in another thread: E=mv^2/2 does not make sense if you are moving using small energy bursts (this also applies to acoustical way of movement - Hans von Lieven, it's for you to consider).

One idea to consider. Let's pretend we have a falling body that we would like to levitate. How much energy we should put in? If the body falls for a long time, it gains a lot of kinetic energy and so putting it back will require much energy. On the other hand, after say 1/10000 of second it has very little kinetic energy and so it can be lifted back easily. In my very own opinion you need NO energy to make a body levitate if you can arrange some clever mechanism. One of such 'clever' mechanisms is to simply put the body on a long shaft. Levitates? Yep. Now just make it levitate without the shaft (just remember that burning fuel is close to zero efficiency even if it works when launching rockets to space). I have a deep belief that you can do it just like a baron Muenchausen did it when he was pulling himself out of the pit by his hair.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on March 06, 2008, 10:05:38 AM
Wow 44 pages and still going strong ;D I may as well throw my twisted opinions into the mix.
I see some odd things happening in Milkovic's machine that we should maybe consider more carefully concerning the force of gravity, centripetal/centrifugal forces and relative velocities. Imagine yourself freefalling downward at terminal velocity, we could say you are weightless and as such the force of gravity would be zero because you are no longer "accelerating", the force of gravity is an accelerating force. When standing still on earth the force of gravity is maximum as there is no acceleration involved, so the force of gravity is dependent on relative velocity in the vertical plane of motion. In the picture below, on the lower right is a half circle representing the motion of a pendulum, in mid-sectors 1 and 3 we could say the pendulum will undergo maximum accelerations both negative and positive in the vertical plane and in sector 2 minimum accelerations in the vertical plane thus gravity must act with maximum force at points 1, 2 and 3 as represented by "G" (red line) in the graph, the letter "C" represents centripetal force pulling downward/outward on point (B) of the balanced lever. We can see in the graph that maximum forces (G-C)peak at point 2 moving the lever end down at B down.What is odd is that in the upper diagram in sectors 4 and 5 the lever end "B" is rising increasing the potential of the pendulum system this potential released near the bottom of the pendulum swing near point 2. The increased potential must be paid for but from which force?, the centripital forces act in a predictable manner through the arc but the force of gravity would seem to peak just as this potential is paid for at point 2. If we could imagine holding lever end "B" and pulling upward where sectors 1-2 and 2-3 meet we can visualize that the pendulum would stay in motion, but which force provides this timed pull upward? It would seem only the mass "A" can and the force would be the force of gravity on a mass with little vertical velocity but great mass and inertia. The mass "A" must be periodically reset to the top position to lift "B" so we come back to the same question again, is it force "G" or force "C" that lifts lever end "A" through the motion of the pendulum pulling on "B"?. Judging from the quite erratic motion of the mass "A" in the video and the predictable centripital force graph line I would guess the de-acceleration of the pendulum mass on the vertical plane leading to an increase in gravitational forces has some role to play here.
This simple setup is very misleading, there are some very complex timing and force issues involved that I can't quite put my finger on yet.
Best of luck
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: eugene-g on March 06, 2008, 11:42:37 PM
What if instead of pendulum we could use something like this picture in the attachment to keep the system "out of balance"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on March 07, 2008, 01:39:07 AM
@eugene-g
The problem with your setup is friction, friction reduces motion, motion is produced by force---so there must be an equal force wanting to keep something in motion.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on March 11, 2008, 01:42:39 AM

There have been many replications of Milkovic's system. NONE have shown OU!

Hans von Lieven

Dear Ser Lieven and others,
please give me any or as much references to above claim!
Any link?
I am looking for exact measurements (of input and output work) with videos or photographs!

PS: I have read this thread from page 36 to 44...

I have also made ?Two-stage Mechanical Oscillator? someway (but not exactly) similar to Milkovic's, to test his "12 times overunity" claims, but my measurements in one very limited scenario, that I was able to measure, showed coefficient of efficiency equals to 0.9! That's far below 12!

But I was unable to do all tests or to construct the device by the best way... I will post new post...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on March 11, 2008, 02:15:36 AM

I have also made ?Two-stage Mechanical Oscillator? someway (but not exactly) similar to Milkovic's, to test his "12 times overunity" claims, but my measurements in one very limited scenario, that I was able to measure, showed coefficient of efficiency equals to 0.9! That's far below 12!

But I was unable to do all tests or to construct the device by the best way...

I am an amateur (Java programmer) and I do not do or construct mechanical devices...
I have past one exam in Theoretical Mechanics on college so my knowledge of physics is limited. But Physics was my hobby during elementary and high school.

I have used my bicycle to replicate ?Two-stage Mechanical Oscillator?.
Pedals were balance beam. One pedal had pendulum made of wood and bob and other pedal had a larger (and heavier) bob (to simulate longer and heavier end of balance beam with hammer-head)...PS: The "problem" with this construction is that the both ends of balance beam are the same length...

I have made just one scenario (measurement) test by filing the system with energy JUST ONCE at the beginning.

System was fed with energy by lifting the pendulum just once so I have measured input work: A = m*g*h.
My premise was that output work is equal to mechanical-heat energy made by impact of the large bob at the other side of balance beam.
And that output (mechanical-heat energy) is equal to Sum of potential (E=m*g*h) energies  of the large bob. To mesure that sum I had to count the number of oscillations of large bob and quickly to read its achieved heights on the ruler fixed behind such "oscillator".
I have repeated the same scenario (measurement) test for about 10 times and used average measurements.

So I had coefficient of efficiency equals to 0.54 (54%)in this particular test with this particular device.
I made theoretical approximation for constant oscillation mode, based on previous test, of maximum coefficient of efficiency with my model, and it was 0.9 (90%)

I think I have also noticed things about energy transmissions like Mr. Hans von Lieven speaks about but I didn't put much attention, tests or thought about it...I did this tests more than 5 years ago...(PS: at Dec. 17. 2002.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on March 11, 2008, 02:41:27 AM
Did anybody constructed and measured coefficient of efficiency (input and output work) of Milkovic's ?Two-stage Mechanical Oscillator??

Can anybody do that please?
Many people wasting huge time on Mr Milkovic's overunity claims ...

I believe that input work of force impulses (dE = A = m*g*dh) is easy to measure with camera, and ruler... and to read it from video clip.
And output work can be measured with dynamo lamp(s) and oscilloscope...or some other way...





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 11, 2008, 05:20:20 AM
I don't know why this design wasn't used. If it produces 12 times the energy used then it should produce 12 times the power used to fire a coil to repel a swinging magnet. The posted picture is just one of many ways this could be utilized if it indeed does work as it is said to work. I think if it was timed right, it should put out a continuous flow.
 It would only take one pulse to get two revolutions. It's like a two stroke motor but with two compressions instead of one. It should be very easy to build.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shruggedatlas on March 11, 2008, 05:29:01 AM
I don't know why this design wasn't used. If it produces 12 times the energy used then it should produce 12 times the power used to fire a coil to repel a swinging magnet. The posted picture is just one of many ways this could be utilized if it indeed does work as it is said to work. I think if it was timed right, it should put out a continuous flow.
 It would only take one pulse to get two revolutions. It's like a two stroke motor but with two compressions instead of one. It should be very easy to build.

I believe the principle of the Milkovic design is that it produces 12 times the energy used, but only if there is no load.  If you try to put a load on, it immediately reverts to underunity mode.  You cannot trick it so easily, my friend.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 11, 2008, 05:47:22 AM
shruggedatlas, "I believe the principle of the Milkovic design is that it produces 12 times the energy used, but only if there is no load.  If you try to put a load on, it immediately reverts to underunity mode."

 That doesn't make sense. As long as the load didn't equal more then 11 times the swinging force, it still should still work and be considered over unity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 11, 2008, 02:15:30 PM
But look at these models... there are all the same...

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/forces2.jpg)

By just adjusting the Dead Upper Center of the flywheel and reverse the rotation, i can lift the 50 Kg BLUE BOX on the right using 5.6 N force, and keep the flywheel rotating.  That's the upper left model.

On the upper right model, placing the flywheel on Dead Lower Center, and aplying the 5.6 N force to the center of the flywheel as the system should do... don't moves the weight.

On the down center model, i needed to apply 100 N of force to do what i have in the upper left model.

I am missing something?  Heres the model:  http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.wm2d (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.wm2d)

Heres the video 2.2 MB http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.avi (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/force2.avi)

So what is your conclusion ?

Are you saying WM2D does not work ?

Also you have designed  something different, as your pendulum is not swinging,
but indeed your results with the left upper example are quite interesting !

Maybe you are using the centrifugal forces to get maximum force at the lower position of the moved
weight on the disc ?
Maybe this will be a method to use centrifugal forces in such a system ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 11, 2008, 08:39:19 PM
So what is your conclusion ?

Are you saying WM2D does not work ?

Also you have designed  something different, as your pendulum is not swinging,
but indeed your results with the left upper example are quite interesting !

Maybe you are using the centrifugal forces to get maximum force at the lower position of the moved
weight on the disc ?
Maybe this will be a method to use centrifugal forces in such a system ?

I think WM2D does works.

As you said, i had the conclusion that using centrifugal forces will allow us to apply a even smaller force to get maximum force at lower position, and the smaller force will be enough to keep the flywheel rotating.  I know will only give 1 pull per revolution, but that's not what i think we are testing here.

All 3 systems shows that the system is giving (the way i did) something like 17 times the input power, but i guess is because of the way the weights are arranged.

Because of that, Hans suggested that the "well balanced system" was what allows me to lift the 50kg weight, and even some bird fart will, but i did the other 2 system to prove he's worng.

About some other theories about restricting the system will make the pendulum loose power i will say that you (my dear Stefan) are right, because you pointed some post ago, that restricting the system is even better.

I found, the less the system moves, the less energy requiered to keep the flywheel to rotate.

I think Hans is right about energy transfer, but i think this system is a way to gain some energy from gravity trough centrifugal pull of pendulum instead of the torque gain (like torque wrench tools).

I will not get into controversy about all the physics or mechanics (sorry my english :) ) on the system, why not or why yes.

What i cannot test with w2dm is the generator part.  Using sproket system to rotate really fast some generator, instead of the 50 Kg weight to see if i can produce more than the 5.6 N i have in my system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 11, 2008, 10:30:39 PM
Hi All,
I can get now a 100 Kg weight lifted up about 1 Meter every revolution
with this new idea from user Scorpile.

I am posting here now the picture and will upload the movie and WM2D file I just made in the
Downloads area.

P.S: I am using the green 10 Newton Force vector( see  green arroy)
all the time on a 80 Kg yellow disc and at the 33 Kg additional weight,
which is attached at the yellow disc, so how do I calculate the used input energy ?
( The same works, when I am just using 10 Newtonmeters of torque onto the disc on its axis)

The 100 Kg weight lifted by 1 Meter is about Energy= 100 kg x 1 meter x 9,81= about 1000 Joules of energy per revolution.
But how much input energy is spent for this ?
( I am a bit tired right now to think more about it...)

This design can be surely still optimized with better leverage fulcrum arm length and
other weight combinations...
there is a lot of room for improvements...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 11, 2008, 10:37:07 PM
Okay, the movie and WM2D file
are now downloadable in this ZIP archive file from here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get15

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 12, 2008, 05:22:25 AM
I have messed with this thing for a couple of hours and it will not work without added force or attraction. You do get more power from the opposite end of the wheel but the out put of the excess power is not timed right to give the wheel the added power it needs to keep going.

 It will take some altering. Some of the excess power from the opposite end of the wheel, will have to be used and then it might just work.

 Something like a rear bike wheel freewheeling hub. With added pressure it engages but without pressure, it freewheels. The front wheel in this next picture would have a freewheel on both sides to accommodate both the down push and the up pull. Both the front and rear wheel may need to be the same size but I haven't thought ahead that far as of yet to say which would be best.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 12, 2008, 06:16:05 AM
Scratch the up pull thought. It will not help. But I would suggest keeping a freewheel on both sides just for balance of torque reasons. As a matter of fact, it may be best to put the freewheels on the rear wheel. I think I can modify a old bicycle to see how this concept works. I just happen to have a couple old bikes at the shop that no one has used in years.

 I have what is needed to build this and if it does produce over unity, this build should be able to tell.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 12, 2008, 09:27:11 AM
ok here you go again.

i have made minor modification to the system and turned on air resistance to high!


wow!


please see file attachment.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 12, 2008, 09:56:57 AM
(see my previous reply)


....and when you set it to low air resistance the thing seems to speed up!!!!!  :o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 12, 2008, 10:15:18 AM
Many pages now, and I haven't read all of it. Anyway, this device is by my opinion the most interesting approach to OU. It should be an easy match to close that loop. Simply by using an electromagnet right under a swinging iron pendulum. The electromgnet is driven by the output via a simple generator - like these in batteryless flashlights. So the pendulum is activated synchronously to its swing frequency. Should be easy to make such device.

I think however, that hartiberlins thought about tapping gravitional force, should at the very end result in no gravitional field at all, and the pendulum will stop... Too long time to worry about that :D

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 12, 2008, 10:29:12 AM
ok here you go again.

i have made minor modification to the system and turned on air resistance to high!


wow!


please see file attachment.

Well just changing the force from 10 Newton to 15 Newton then also works with high
air resistance, butas this is a low speed application air resistance will not play
any effect on it.
So how can we calculate best the input energy this way ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 12, 2008, 10:33:24 AM
Scratch the up pull thought. It will not help. But I would suggest keeping a freewheel on both sides just for balance of torque reasons. As a matter of fact, it may be best to put the freewheels on the rear wheel. I think I can modify a old bicycle to see how this concept works. I just happen to have a couple old bikes at the shop that no one has used in years.

 I have what is needed to build this and if it does produce over unity, this build should be able to tell.

@nightlife,
I think you have missed the principle, cause it is used to lift at the right side of the fulcrum
a 100 Kg weight for 1 Meter, but you tried to rotate something...
So instead of lifting a 100 Kg weight by 1 Meter is could be used to lift something else, which is heavy
or push a flywheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 12, 2008, 10:34:28 AM
maybe for every revolution or two the weight locks at 12 o'clock then the system balances, then you unlock it from 12 o'clock and the whole thing starts over. know what i am saying?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 12, 2008, 10:36:53 AM
the only energy being used is to lock and unlock the weight at 12 o'clock which is very little.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 12, 2008, 10:49:53 AM
here
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 12, 2008, 11:50:10 AM
Does anybody know, how Gears work in WM2D ?

Are there any good video tutorials out there for WM2D ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 12, 2008, 01:43:17 PM
hartiberlin, "@nightlife, I think you have missed the principle, cause it is used to lift at the right side of the fulcrum
a 100 Kg weight for 1 Meter, but you tried to rotate something...
So instead of lifting a 100 Kg weight by 1 Meter is could be used to lift something else, which is heavy
or push a flywheel."

 If you take off the 100 kg, then the pull could be utilized too, but I think it would work better if the weight stayed and all the focus was put on the push because of the timing of the wheels most useful force. It starts to loose most of it's momentum at 9oclock and that?s when the weight is lifted. Then the weight drops at about 10oclock and that push is when the wheel needs it the most. You lose nothing from the added weight because it is utilized by the push by adding more power the push when the wheel needs it the most.
 This would give the wheel more force when the wheels weight is fighting gravity. The wheel should speed up to a certain speed depending on the gears.

 I will be building one using a ten speed rear bike wheel. I believe the crank I have is a three piece crank which will allow me to have equal pressure on both sides of the front sprocket.

 I will attach a gear on the opposite side of the rear wheel to test the power achieved. If that gear can turn anything attached to it, the device would then be proven to be a over unity device.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 12, 2008, 02:36:02 PM
What i think is to take off the weight, and add something to rotate a generator with gears, which needs the same force applied to make the generator rotate really fast, just like the kinetic lights the original inventor used.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 12, 2008, 02:55:38 PM
Here is also another great physics simulation program
Newton lab:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=11rmKvT-R7U

http://www.dsmm.net/demos/demo_newton.php


Maybe we can simulate with this program it much better in 3D ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hartiberlin on March 12, 2008, 03:02:56 PM
the only energy being used is to lock and unlock the weight at 12 o'clock which is very little.

Hi You don?t need tolock  it,
it works by its own movements.

I just played with the concept now for a few hours,
but it is very hard to synchronize several discs, weights,
gears, etc...
Also I really need a good video tutorial how to use and setup gears
and ropes to pull things or move discs...

Can anybody provide a good video tutorial on youtube or
somewhere else about this topic ?

It all comes down to the right resonance frequencies or weight disc size-pendulum
swinging cycles...
very hard to synchronize it all.

If also somebody could teach me, how to use locks on springs
and how they could be released on purpose again,that would be really great.
So I need to compress a spring with a moving weight.
Then at a certain position of the spring and weight the lock
must apply and hold the position of the spring or connected weight
and then wait a dedicated time and then release the spring or attached weight again..
How could this be modelled in WM2D or NewtonLab ?

Many thanks.

Regards,Stefan.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 12, 2008, 03:59:00 PM
Well.. i used MOI to give all a simple idea of the generator side.

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/mgen.jpg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on March 12, 2008, 05:47:41 PM
I have made some corrections to my previous post:

Here are these corrections:

"...PS: The "problem" with this construction is that the both ends of balance beam are the same length..."

"So I had coefficient of efficiency equals to 0.54 (54%)in this particular test with this particular device.
I made theoretical approximation for constant oscillation mode, based on previous test, of maximum coefficient of efficiency with my model,  and it was 0.9 (90%)"

"...I did this tests more than 5 years ago...(PS: at Dec. 17. 2002.)"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on March 12, 2008, 06:20:37 PM
Well.. i used MOI to give all a simple idea of the generator side.
You have to find someone with a 3D printer to test your ideas. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on March 12, 2008, 09:22:19 PM
Well.. i used MOI to give all a simple idea of the generator side.

Scorpile your idea is excellent! Thanks.
It is possible to use bike for all this (I mean for Milkovics model!)
Pedals could be balance beam and rear wheel could be used to lift weight (with rope) or to generate electricity with dynamo!
We can mount pendulum on one pedal and extra weight or ledge on other pedal.
So input work (on pendulum) could be measured with video camera and ruler by formula dA = m*g*dh.
And output work could be measured with unimer (on dynamo) or by formula dE = m*g*h if we lift the weight (m) with rope by rear wheel!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 13, 2008, 01:39:15 AM
 I built it today but found that the derailleur was taking to much energy away. The derailleur is necessary when the sprocket is attached to the stationary frame because it is used to control the chains slack. It will not work that way so I mounted the sprocket to the moving frame and I am doing away with the derailleur. I will now be using the pull instead of the push because that is the most powerful action this design has. After the wheel is steady turning, it does not take much power to keep it going. I did find that a load is a must to achieve a steady action. The faster it goes, the more erratic the motion gets. The load has to be pared with the RPM's to keep a steady motion.

 I hope to have better results tomorrow with the alterations I have made. I have to buy another chain in the morning to add to the old one, to meet the new design spec's.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 13, 2008, 11:36:21 PM
I tried every way possible and I could not get it to power it's self. There is no over unity here with this design. I am done here and I am off to try another idea. Not sure which one as of yet but I am sure i will figure out before the night is over.

 Good luck to those still playing with this threads concept.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 14, 2008, 12:50:57 PM
look i am telling you guys to get free energy all you need is to pause/start the rotating weight after every revolution or so at 12 o'clock, then let the whole system balance, then after that let the weight loose again to repeat the process. the system provides more than enough energy to self lock/unlock from 12 o'clock.
just need simple circuit and some kind of mechanical locking-unlocking mechanism for the rotating weight.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 14, 2008, 01:25:33 PM
FreeEnergy, if that is true, then I should be able to put a weight on a bedini school girl pulse motor design and I should get a better end result then I did without it.

 I will test it using two different coil designs. One with power wrapped with 24 gauge and the pickup wrapped with 22 gauge and the reversed.

 That should be a fair way to test your theory. Do you agree?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 14, 2008, 03:05:21 PM
This is interesting, because asuming that bedini design gives you a 99.99% eficient motor, and assuming this system really works, at least .01% , adding more charge to the other side of the system could maybe allow you to run on capacitors.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 14, 2008, 09:11:04 PM
i don't know much about bedini but try it out and see. i have a good feeling about this! but it has to be Milkovic style. just go back and see my last attached image.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Scorpile on March 15, 2008, 03:26:00 PM
I have seen a lot of physics errors when modeling those aparatus like the discused in this thread.

I don't know others, but i have the theory that those errors probably are because the software detects the overunity and show it as an error because that will be ripping some of the "well known" laws.

What i want to set clear for everyone, is that in my case, i am seeking a way to "gain" more energy than the energy i spent generating it, but without ripping any thermodinamics, or physic law.  I think we can do some tricks to "extract" that exceding energy free and contained on it own "battery".  Think this like when a bomb explodes, because you use less energy to start the bomb, than the energy the bomb releases when it explodes, no matter if the energy was contained on chemicals, i know we are not creating energy...  That's not what i seek.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on March 15, 2008, 04:54:01 PM
Adding a weight to a bedini wheels design does not make a difference so scratch that idea.

 I did how ever find a very interesting thing about the bedini design that I think most have over looked. I will test my new design and let you all know the results after I am done.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on March 15, 2008, 11:34:44 PM
The huge problem with gravity-based devices is that kinetic energy's direction cannot be reversed. So, if a body have gained a velocity due to gravity pull, whatever you do - rotate it, skew, dissect, etc - it will still be falling into the same direction. Pendulum is a way to "redirect" kinetic energy, but it is redirected at the expense of pendulum's arm stretching on atomic level. You really have to create an "inertia shield" first (if that one exists at all) before gravity pull can be used as an energy source (but then the "inertia shield" should be efficient enough so that gain is higher than expense).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aleks on March 16, 2008, 03:43:57 PM
Uh, actually I think that torsion is not wasted energy as it is not converted to another form.
With a pendulum, most likely its' v would be calculated by the vertical drop and the distance it would travel.
 In other words, if its' swing is twice the distance as the vertical drop, then it would have 1/2 the acceleration rate of gravity.
 So what would need to be accounted for is the slower rate of acceleration. And how does its' motion effect this ? Does it cause a further slowing in its' acceleration or does it help to increase it ?
 Such as, if the fulcrum is being lifted, does this cause the bob to lose force relative to the lift of the fulcrum ?
I do not mean torsion, but when pendulum swings it stretches. Stretching usually wastes energy by turning into heat and the material that stretches loses its mechanic durability. On the other hand if we pretend that pendulum's arm stretching does not cause energy loss and always recovers then this suggests that inertia inversion in a large body without much energy expense is possible. You just have to think how it's possible. However, if you change inertia into the direction opposite to fall, the inertia will quickly revert to zero due to ever-lasting gravity pull. This means that the other element of "gravity engine" beside inertia shielding (or redirecting) is required: which is gravity pull shielding, and that is out of the scope of just the mechanical device. Well, if my speculations on gravity are valid: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Anti-Gravity:DC_Acoustic_Waves_Hypothesis then gravity device should include some exploding or imploding processes just to be able to shield the earthly gravity force.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: petersone on March 22, 2008, 08:56:01 PM
Spent hours reading this topic,and others,one thing comes to mind,that is,if it is so important to have the correct balance between pendalum and lever,how come you can"do what you like with the lever,and it makes no difference to the pendalum."when in reality it will make a lot of difference,I've tried it.I think if it is going to work,anythink you do with the lever has to be factored in to the set up,any change to the work done by the lever, the setup must be redone.
smashing forum,I spend far more hours on here than I should.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: JBB on April 14, 2008, 05:31:42 PM
Hi all,

I had a chance to work and experiment with the two-stage mechanical oscillator of Veljko Milkovic you are talking here about.

I did several analyses that confirmed Milkovic's claims and here are the first two that are translated in English:
 
ANALYSIS OF THE INFLUENCE OF THE CENTRIFUGAL FORCE DURING OPERATION OF THE TWO-STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR BY VELJKO MILKOVIĆ:
"...It seems clear that the influence of the centrifugal force is the key to the explanation of the energy surplus of the two-stage oscillator by Veljko Milković, the inventor."
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_1.pdf

MEASURING THE RATIO OF OUTPUT AND INPUT ENERGY OF THE TWO-STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR BY VELJKO MILKOVIĆ:
"...Therefore, ratio of energy at the output and energy at the input is 22.89..."
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on April 14, 2008, 05:54:05 PM
Hello JBB:

Thanks for bringing these papers here. I am not math wizard, but I see some outstanding oversimplifications in your ideas, that might lead to very heated debate. Not telling that your conclusions are wrong, not at all, just that the numbers will be debated and probably for a long time, so I amsking you to take a step back and look at it from a bit more far to try and see what I might be refereing to.

Regards!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on April 14, 2008, 11:19:17 PM
MEASURING THE RATIO OF OUTPUT AND INPUT ENERGY OF THE TWO-STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR BY VELJKO MILKOVIĆ:
"...Therefore, ratio of energy at the output and energy at the input is 22.89..."
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf[/li][/list]

Congratulations Jovan!!!
Finally somebody (trying to) do a real work-energy measurement.
BTW I did the same measurement but with different device so our results are different.
The way I solved "the problem" with measuring heights on weight 2 (output) was to do 10 experiments and use average or minimal heights values...but I suppose that even this one experiment could be enough for the insight about the magnitude of output work...
1. For your measurement to have more scientific and other influence I think you should shot experiment with video camera... ofcourse if you have time and resources... You can use paper and draw lines on it as a ruler. Then put the paper behind weights ...so the camera(s) can catch almost exact heights!

2. I think the one more (little) different experiment is needed so I ask you, or somebody else, to do it! PLEASE!
That would be the final proof!
Put some consumer or generator to measure output work!!! For example try to do electric measurement with unimer or oscilloscope or ...
Since we now exactly know input work, by putting consumer or generator on the output end, we could precisely measure and prove or disprove overunity! If you or somebody else do this and document whole experiment with video camera and if that measurement show overunity, you (or somebody who do this) will be world famous (scientist and) person!!!
PC: I think all previous experiments (done by other people) that show forces "measurement" have no scientific or real value, but this type of (work, energy) measurement, like you do, are the real ones!!! You have precise data about input work. That is something that hasn't been done  yet! (Stroking pendulum with dynamo lamp do not show input (energy or) work and observing large output forces also do not show output (energy or) work!)

One more Congratulations on your effort to do the real scientific measurements!!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on April 14, 2008, 11:50:49 PM
Hello JBB:

Thanks for bringing these papers here. I am not math wizard, but I see some outstanding oversimplifications in your ideas, that might lead to very heated debate. Not telling that your conclusions are wrong, not at all, just that the numbers will be debated and probably for a long time, so I amsking you to take a step back and look at it from a bit more far to try and see what I might be refereing to.

Regards!

Man Help us all! Please tell us what you see!
What oversimplifications? I am not professor of physics. I am not even a student. But I see and "understand" Jovan's experiment. He is finally trying to use scientific measurements here! So please help us! Tell us what we can't or do not see!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on April 15, 2008, 12:30:10 AM
"It is also important to notice that, according to the energy conservation law; total
potential energy of the lifted weight is wasted on deforming the surface and heat emitted
into the surroundings, when the freefalling weight hits the surface."

Damn... I do not know physics well, but I think we could maybe have a problem here...
What if this whole system behaves like one big pendulum?

If we lift the pendulum weight and measure heights that it reaches we will also have "overunity" on a single pendulum weight itself! 
But as I remember from physics book that its not the case because of the "pendulum law" - forgive my ignorance if I made mistake!
Our "deforming the surface and heat emitted" in that case could be air resistance and sliding friction at pendulum joint point.

So (I think) the only way to prove "overunity" is to do real useful work on output end of the system and to measure it!
So we should put some generator or consumer and measure useful output work!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mr.Entropy on April 15, 2008, 05:04:46 AM
MEASURING THE RATIO OF OUTPUT AND INPUT ENERGY OF THE TWO-STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR BY VELJKO MILKOVIĆ:
"...Therefore, ratio of energy at the output and energy at the input is 22.89..."
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
Your output measurement is incorrect.  Even when falling, the hammer is being held up to a large extent by the pendulum on the other end of the lever.  It therefore hits the anvil much more slowly than it would if it were falling freely, and delivers only a small part the potential that was stored by lifting it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AlanA on April 15, 2008, 08:40:06 PM
Hi Jovan,

I am not in the position to doubt about your measurements. My question is: What con I do with Milkovics mechanical socillation system. For what is it good for? Is it possible to get energy form it? I think no one want to stand beside a pendulum and push them every 10 seconds?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Kul_ash on April 16, 2008, 01:58:22 PM
I am having trouble in digesting a concept that at the peak of pendulum swing, it will have "weightlessness". If the pendulum is weightless for say fraction of a second means PE = mgh  = 0 and KE = 0 and that all energy is totally taken out of pendulum system to provide work to the weight of hammer, then how does it get back the energy to run the system again and going down?
If pendulum is going down then it means it also gave away all its energy and generated enough energy again from no where to fall back. If you are calling inertia will take back the pendulum then if there is no mass, no PE, what is its value?
Also can any one tell me is any one ever closed this loop or is it still in theory only?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Kul_ash on April 16, 2008, 02:09:31 PM
I am also failing to understand Jovan's analysis of centrifugal work doing extra work. Isn't it the centripetal force that is responsible for circular movement of pendulum? If there is no centripetal force, then pendulum can not move in that motion. And isn't this centripetal force equal and opposite to centrifugal force as per Newtons law? Then how come centrifugal force is doing additional work?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PYRODIN123321 on April 16, 2008, 05:50:10 PM

hmmm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Prophmaji on April 18, 2008, 06:38:40 AM
it is very simple to test. Make a basic set up that functions, use a large heavy wheel on the output side..and connect to the central bearing of the heavy wheel by the use of two ratchets, one on each side of the rotating wheel's bearing.  Connect to the vertical arm via springs, to the ratchets. This keeps the energy in the springs and releases it effectively to the rotating massive wheel.

Then pull power off the rotating wheel.

Of course..that experiment then brings other ideas to mind......

This device, is 'sound'.. it is an application of the fact that gravitation is a 'polarized-oriented-gradient'.
It is NOT equal in the vertical vs the horizontal orientation, with regards to energy given and taken, with respects to physical distances moved. This application takes advantage of that simple point.

This point, in combination with Bessler type massive wheels and magnets, can be used to move the steel balls around the wheel positions when the balls are nearly in the horizontal domain/position, to positions either closer in or further out for greater or less leverage. Far less energy is required to move the balls when they are horizontal. Static magnets positioned slightly away from the moving wheel can be used to force the balls about.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: 2b on April 28, 2008, 07:27:36 PM
Veljko Milkovic

all he has to do is use 2 big syringes and some tubing
to show "overunity" or "perpetual motion".  you just
connect the "needle end" of each syringe with tubing
(best to use as big of holes and tubing as possible),
fill one syringe and the tubing with water, and then
use the downward force of the dead weight to press on the
syringe full of water, and then use the force of the
empty syringe expanding (on the other end of the tubing)
to push the pendulum weight.  on the upward stroke of
the dead weight, the respective syringe refills itself.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: 2b on April 28, 2008, 09:05:36 PM
in other words ...

you need to use hydraulics to prove "over-unity" or "perpetual motion" with the Milkovic machine.  you might be able to improvise with 2 syringes, some tubing, & water.

hydraulics will also allow you to convert from a "small distance, large force" (the dead weight), to a "long distance, small force" (to push the oscillating weight).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: 2b on April 28, 2008, 11:10:02 PM
i was amused by the device at first, and so i built one with some 2 liter bottles, one full, and one half-full.  and after reading some materials on the device, i noticed that everything was pretty much similar:

1. the pendulum weight is 2x the 'dead-weight'.

2. the pendulum weight is 1/2 the distance from the axis as the 'dead-weight'.

so, the system is already close to balanced, leverage wise.  and swinging the pendulum merely alternates between leveraging the load on the opposite side (mid-swing - with a little help of centrifical force provide by the hand), and allowing full gravitational force on the opposite side (the ends of each swing, where the pendulum is weightless).  so, i don't see what the big deal is now with this machine.

1. the machine is already near-balanced to begin with.

2. the force of the hand pushing the pendulum is approximately equal to the additional centrifical force used by the pendulum to lift the opposing side (the dead weight), plus the anti-gravitational force used by the pendulum to reach the end of its swing (where it then becomes weightless).

i don't see any free-energy here - only ordinary leverage and hand-force turned to centrifical force (pendulum mid-swing), and a force against gravity (pendulum at ends of the swing).

so what about the "flashlight proof" and all these measurements citing the pounds of force applied to the pendulum by the hand, and by the dead-weight to scales?

1. the flashlight proof is meaningless because, as previously stated, 10lbs of force can lift a 200lb man when leveraged properly; and with this device, the pendulum is leveraging things beyond what a static weight would do.

2. 'pounds' are pretty much meaningless as they are used - because the length of time and distance the pendulum is being accelerated by the applied force, and the length of time and distance the 'dead-weight' applies its force, are not being taken into account.  and as above, the action of the pendulums oscillating leveraging is not being taken into account.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Kul_ash on April 29, 2008, 11:48:21 AM
in other words ...

you need to use hydraulics to prove "over-unity" or "perpetual motion" with the Milkovic machine.  you might be able to improvise with 2 syringes, some tubing, & water.

hydraulics will also allow you to convert from a "small distance, large force" (the dead weight), to a "long distance, small force" (to push the oscillating weight).


Dear Friend
But won't that defeat the purpose of extracting large work from small input concept? You are extracting large work, converting it in to small work and then supplying it to the system again. What's the use? How will you extract additional energy?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: 2b on May 01, 2008, 02:09:49 PM
> But won't that defeat the purpose of extracting large work from small input concept? You are extracting large work, converting it in to small work and then supplying it to the system again. What's the use? How will you extract additional energy?

the purpose of using hydraulics is to prove that the machine can run itself perpetually, which it should be able to do if it outputs 12x more work than is input, as claimed.  hydraulics only transfer work, they don't modify the amount of it.  but hydraulics can be used to modify Force x Distance (Work), exchanging Force for Distance, and vice versa.

for example, a big fat syringe under the 'dead-weight' could push 1cc of water with only 1cm of travel - yet a thin syringe on the 'pedulum-weight' side might move 5cm when that 1cc of water enters into it.

it would be simple enough to do, and if someone wants to prove this machine can output more work than is input, they should do it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: scorpion on May 03, 2008, 12:05:58 AM
greetings of france, very interesting your forum dual m?canical oscillation system. I know that the movement is said impossible, but I made a replica of this dual oscillator, I tested the last few months, the first trials, I was very surprised by the vast power output compared to 'entry which seems to give 9 / 1 or more? I calculated many systems that could allocate a portion of energy to maintain the momentum of the pendulum, but it is not simple, because we need the impetus is given at the right time because the pendulum has not always the same amplitude, if the impetus comes too early cancels it, and if the momentum is behind it is useless because the clock ran away, we need a variable timing of the pulse amplitude of the following pendulum, it can be done mechanically compressing a spring when the weight falls, and return the relaxation of a clear system of levers or rods pendulum when he is at top dead centre, it requires that the pendulum has that triggers relaxation of the spring at the right time, when he began to descend, there must be a mechanical sensor position on the pendulum, which detects the exact top dead centre (which is variable!). pity that I did not much free time, because I like to invent small systems to adapt, improve, but I studied well before the construction and correct the defects on the plans before making a draft
But over the past few months that I observe, testing, conducts measures (simple) on this oscillator, overunity that seemed apparent at the beginning decreases steadily, I am pleased to have achieved.
I will still try my system, but with little hope of valid results? because I think he understood how this double oscillator .....
greetings to all, very happy to take your comments, maybe soon
(text translated into English by a translator; hopes legible)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: scorpion on May 03, 2008, 12:10:17 AM
salutations de la france,tr?s int?ressant votre forum dual m?canical oscillation system . Je sais que le mouvement perp?tuel est dit impossible , mais j'ai fabriqu? une r?plique de ce double oscillateur, je le teste depuis quelques mois, aux premiers essais, j'ai ?t? tr?s surpris par la tr?s grande force de sortie par rapport ? l'entr?e qui parait donner 9/1 ou plus ??? j'ai calcul? beaucoup de syst?mes qui pourraient renvoyer une partie de l'?nergie pour maintenir le mouvement du pendule,mais cela n'est pas simple ,car il faut que l'impulsion soit donn?e au bon moment car le pendule n'a pas toujours la m?me amplitude,si l'impulsion arrive trop en avance elle annule , et si l'impulsion est en retard elle ne sert ? rien car le pendule s'enfuit,il faut une synchronisation variable de l'impulsion suivant l'amplitude du pendule ,?a peut ?tre fait m?caniquement en comprimant un ressort quand le poids tombe,et renvoyer la d?tente du ressort par syst?mes de leviers ou bielles au pendule quand il se trouve au point mort haut ,il faut pour cela que se soit le pendule qui d?clenche la d?tente du ressort au bon moment, quand il commence ? descendre,il faut un capteur m?canique de position sur le pendule qui d?tecte avec pr?cision le point mort haut (qui est variable!!!) .Dommage que je n'ai pas beaucoup de temps libre ,car j'aime inventer des petits syst?mes  pour adapter ,am?liorer,mais je les ?tudie bien avant de les construire et rectifier les d?fauts sur les plans avant de r?aliser un projet
Mais depuis quelques mois que j'observe,teste,effectue des mesures (simple) sur cet oscillateur ,la overunity qui me semblait apparente au d?but d?croit sans cesse ,je suis cependant heureux de l'avoir r?alis?.
je vais quand m?me essayer mon syst?me , mais sans grand espoir de r?sultats valables??? car je crois avoir compris comment fonctionne ce double oscillateur.....
salutations ? tous, tr?s heureux de suivre vos commentaires,? bient?t peut-?tre
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on May 04, 2008, 01:57:47 AM
It's now published a full paper by physicist Nebojsa Simin:
 
Original scientific paper - Free energy of the oscillating pendulum-lever system:
"...The effect of creating the free energy results from the difference between the work of the orbital damping forces of the lever and the work of the radial damping force of the pendulum motion. This effect enables increase of the input energy. The coefficient of efficiency of the machine can be more than one."
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Nebojsa_Simin_paper_Free_Energy_of_the_oscillating_pendulum-lever_system.pdf
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: scorpion on May 09, 2008, 06:27:40 PM
Hi all
Here some pictures of my oscllateur Vilkovic,
weight of the pendulum 12 kg weight on the release lever is a spring, spring tension is adjustable to several positions with a lever that allows me to instruct its output by 14 kg to 25 kg, it is much simpler than setting a fixed weight, borne down much faster because there is almost no inertia, the load increases with the amount of leverage output.
The ensemble is constructed of wood and iron, rigid construction for the minimum vibration,
all this construction is set firmly on a chest filled with sand around 100kg, front ago weighing 50 kg over 4 feet, which improves stability,
and the rear is fixed to the wall of the building with the help of a clamp, cel? is perhaps an exaggeration, but not cel? there are too many shocks pests as the pendulum of 12 kg generates a lot of high-strength at the bottom and front to back
it would achieve much stronger if the pendulum would have a weight of 20 kg 30kg or 50 kg
see you
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: scorpion on May 09, 2008, 06:32:39 PM
MORE PHOTOS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: scorpion on May 09, 2008, 06:38:52 PM
MORE PHOTOS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: scorpion on May 09, 2008, 06:40:18 PM
MORE PHOTOS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: scorpion on May 09, 2008, 06:40:57 PM
MORE PHOTOS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: scorpion on May 09, 2008, 06:42:55 PM
MORE PHOTOS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Lgal on May 19, 2008, 03:43:37 AM
Hi,

I see that you discussed here the analyses of Jovan Bebic that I found very interesting, so I did one analysis too that is related to first Jovan's paper. Here is my conclusion and full paper on the link below:

"Given the fact that F1 is always smaller than the total amount of the centrifugal force which is acting vertically downwards on the pendulum axis for small angles f, the conclusion is that the efficiency of a two-stage mechanical oscillator by Veljko Milković is always bigger than 1 because cosf is always less than 1!  "
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Ljubo_Panic.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on May 22, 2008, 10:59:02 PM
Here is sort of a different idea I had...let me know what you think....It is really simple to try at home with almost anything.
 
Just wanted people to actually try this at home and see what they think. This is my video.

Even if you try it without a lever you can feel there is a lot going on with gravity.
I would love it if someone with more computer experience could make a model a real model and see what they can get out it??
Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdV9233_pnQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nihilanth on May 27, 2008, 10:50:30 PM
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html

"The combination of these two models is the first model of perpetuum mobile."
The piston water pump with the pendulum and electromagnets (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Patent12.jpg)
Electric generator with the pendulum and magnetic bumpers (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Patent3.jpg)

Would anyone here happen to know how to translate the first one?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on June 06, 2008, 03:27:46 AM
The latest news...

CALCULATION OF ENERGY SURPLUS OF THE TWO-STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR IN THE EXPERIMENT WITH MANUAL DYNAMO LAMPS
In one more analysis and measurement, Jovan Bebic considers the efficiency of Veljko Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator in the famous experiment with the hand flashlights and reports that the output/input ratio is 2.8 times in his same replicated experiment.

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_3-experiment_dynamo_lamps.pdf

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nihilanth on June 08, 2008, 01:01:18 AM
Sorry to be a bother, but does anyone know where I could download whatever that physics simulation software is, or better yet, If someone could test this for me, I'd appreciate it.
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5561/2stagebd1.png)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on June 08, 2008, 01:21:41 AM
Sorry to be a bother, but does anyone know where I could download whatever that physics simulation software is, or better yet, If someone could test this for me, I'd appreciate it.
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5561/2stagebd1.png)

go here: http://workingmodel.design-simulation.com/WM2D/download.php
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nihilanth on June 09, 2008, 09:29:47 AM
Thank you, but for some strange reason, I can't seem to figure out how to find the dimensions of an object. Also, It won't let me save.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 14, 2008, 06:01:38 PM
I asked Stephen to do the Computer sim for this and he said to give him a chance to get caught up on things.
Thanks
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 19, 2008, 06:58:53 AM
Hey everyone,
 

I don't know if you ever saw this???? There is no other details about it it just says someone built
9 kg pendulum running on 5 watts - download the video clip to see it - 5.21 MB

If you can't open the one above just go to the link below
 
Look at this one and scroll down a little (you'll see the picture of it a pendulum)
There is very told about what is going on and no details about the builder?? I tried look Ron up and could not find anything on google or youtube???????

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/AktuelnoEng.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: petersone on June 19, 2008, 03:28:50 PM
Hi Everybody
Just some questions someone may have the answer to.
Anyone who has tested this seems to find ou,where is the extra energy coming from? perhaps no one has told the machine it needs it!!!
Why is there no self runner,generate some juice,feed it to a coil to attract the pendulum,can't be that difficult for the very learned people in this forum.
happy hunting
peter
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on June 19, 2008, 07:15:45 PM
Hey everyone,
 

I don't know if you ever saw this???? There is no other details about it it just says someone built
9 kg pendulum running on 5 watts - download the video clip to see it - 5.21 MB

If you can't open the one above just go to the link below
 
Look at this one and scroll down a little (you'll see the picture of it a pendulum)
There is very told about what is going on and no details about the builder?? I tried look Ron up and could not find anything on google or youtube???????

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/AktuelnoEng.html


Hi Brad,

Thank you for your interest! Ron is a retired machinist, living in Victoria BC.
He works closely with Veljko and, as a matter of fact, is an honorary member of the Novi Sad Crew.

The pictures on Veljko's site are of an earlier build. For the latest build go here...

http://www.driveway.com/a8e6e8f3h8

This is the double solenoid operated 18 Kg Mk 5.3 version

Ron

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nihilanth on June 20, 2008, 03:35:47 AM
That double solenoid video is pretty amazing. Makes me think I should change my design idea:

Attaching the pendulum's axis to a crankwheel with the arm extendible only to half the diameter of the crank wheel. and powered by hydraulics, like in 2b's diagram. Maybe with a second. crank on the stationary weights side to turn an electric motor.

My head hurts right now, so I hope I'm making sense.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 20, 2008, 05:18:04 AM
I Ron
Are you THE Ron???
can you tell me if the device actually worked?? and IF so I would love to give you a call to talk about it??
Thanks
Jeff
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on June 23, 2008, 01:04:47 AM
I Ron
Are you THE Ron???
can you tell me if the device actually worked?? and IF so I would love to give you a call to talk about it??
Thanks
Jeff

The lesson was just how to drive the pendulum.
What you hang on it for power extraction is another story (that hasn't happened yet, here)

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 26, 2008, 06:38:36 AM
Ok her is my question...I have set something up to see what happens ....It is basically Milivoc set up with a pendulum and cross bar. What if on the pendulum I have a 2 pound weight and on the lifting end I have a 5 pound weight set on the ground with a cable set up too and when I swing the 2 pound weight it lifts the 5 pound weight up off the ground (it lifts it up about 3 times before it can not pick it up anymore) Pendulum is beinging lifted 2 feet and it lifts the 5lbs off the ground about 5-6 inchs......What is going on???
Anyone????
Thanks for the input
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: greendoor on June 26, 2008, 07:49:16 AM
Can somebody please explain to me how anyone with even half a brain for physics can think that the "flashlight" expermiment proves power output?  This is a fools paradise if anything ever was - and I will explain why:

The motion required to light an LED flashlight is very small.  Simply holding one flashlight and giving the input pendulum a little tap is going to give a small flash - for sure.  It is consuming hardly any power - possibly milliwatts. 

Hanging a whole bunch of the same flashlights on the output end is proving nothing either.  Sure - each one will extract a few milliwatts - but that is nothing compared to the power you are pumping into it with your hand.

You could equally "prove" massive Underunity by strapping the 12 flashlights onto your hand, and placing only one flashlight on the output beam ...

I'm intrigued by Milkovic, but this part of his "science" is utter bollocks that a child should be able to debunk. 

A pendulum is a storage device, and a beam is a lever.  I can't see any dynamics here that can't be explained by a pendulum an a lever.  One their own, pendulums and levers have a fascination but are clearly not overunity.  Combined, they get a little more interesting, and the maths obviously gets beyond most of us.  But i'm not seeing anything that should amuse a real scientist for more than a few minutes ...

I am not a skeptic - I suspect it's possible to build a gravity wheel that works - but i'm not seeing it here. 

 

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: greendoor on June 26, 2008, 08:13:22 AM
Ok her is my question...I have set something up to see what happens ....It is basically Milivoc set up with a pendulum and cross bar. What if on the pendulum I have a 2 pound weight and on the lifting end I have a 5 pound weight set on the ground with a cable set up too and when I swing the 2 pound weight it lifts the 5 pound weight up off the ground (it lifts it up about 3 times before it can not pick it up anymore) Pendulum is beinging lifted 2 feet and it lifts the 5lbs off the ground about 5-6 inchs......What is going on???
Anyone????
Thanks for the input

It's just like a swinging pendulum.  Potential energy is converted into kinetic energy, and then converted back into potential energy - it does this a few times until friction has consumed it all.  Net result: 0.

We are fooled into thinking that this is overunity - but it is simply a series of energy conversions, each a little lossy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on June 26, 2008, 08:55:13 AM
Can somebody please explain to me how anyone with even half a brain for physics can think that the "flashlight" expermiment proves power output?  This is a fools paradise if anything ever was - and I will explain why:

The motion required to light an LED flashlight is very small.  Simply holding one flashlight and giving the input pendulum a little tap is going to give a small flash - for sure.  It is consuming hardly any power - possibly milliwatts. 

Hanging a whole bunch of the same flashlights on the output end is proving nothing either.  Sure - each one will extract a few milliwatts - but that is nothing compared to the power you are pumping into it with your hand.

You could equally "prove" massive Underunity by strapping the 12 flashlights onto your hand, and placing only one flashlight on the output beam ...

You are absolutely right, and a wittier person than I has made the comment that the experiment with the flashlights would work equally well if the flashlight in the hand was broken.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 26, 2008, 03:54:50 PM
Can somebody please explain to me how anyone with even a brain for physics can think that the "flashlight" expermiment proves power output? 
Yes. What is needed is an Avometer.
Paul.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 26, 2008, 06:16:43 PM
Greendor,
I am not saying that the flashlight is a real example but all I was asking is what I have done ....is it doing extra work??
I am attaching a hand crank (like the hand drills) to a AC generator and seeing what I can get it out of it and then running that to a small motor that will run a flywheel that I am hoping to attach back into the crank...because the crank only needs a small amount of power to keep running too??
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: broli on June 26, 2008, 10:07:08 PM
I'm curious why noone has tried the following simple setup already...

(http://broli.dommel.be/2stagebd.PNG)

Maybe it's not the best setup for an electrical setup but the point is having a pulsing input and continuous ouput and measuring the differential.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on June 26, 2008, 11:44:13 PM
G'day Broli and all,

This has been done many times. Brian Berrett and Ron Pugh have used similar arrangements. This is all documented. All have walked away from it since there is NO energy gain in the device!

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on June 26, 2008, 11:52:52 PM
@greendoor
Quote
It's just like a swinging pendulum.  Potential energy is converted into kinetic energy, and then converted back into potential energy - it does this a few times until friction has consumed it all.  Net result: 0.
We are fooled into thinking that this is overunity - but it is simply a series of energy conversions, each a little lossy.
A bunch of genius types at MIT once said they would need 1000X more computing power to solve the inertial moments of a simple fluid filled pendulum and even then they conceeded that the accuracy would be too low to matter. Now put a pendulum on a lever weighted AND loaded on the other end---- the inertial,velocity,time variables are near infinite and yet you presume to understand what the boys at MIT admitted could never be calculated. When I built this machine I understood no simulator would solve this and that it could take years to get all the variables correct to produce the desired effects so I moved on to easier projects. Can you imagine an engineer of 20 years having operated 10,000HP turbines in a 160MW power plant intimidated by a simple pendulum as you say.
Go back to school you have no idea what your talking about ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on June 27, 2008, 12:17:24 AM
@greendoorA bunch of genius types at MIT once said they would need 1000X more computing power to solve the inertial moments of a simple fluid filled pendulum and even then they conceeded that the accuracy would be too low to matter. Now put a pendulum on a lever weighted AND loaded on the other end---- the inertial,velocity,time variables are near infinite and yet you presume to understand what the boys at MIT admitted could never be calculated. When I built this machine I understood no simulator would solve this and that it could take years to get all the variables correct to produce the desired effects so I moved on to easier projects. Can you imagine an engineer of 20 years having operated 10,000HP turbines in a 160MW power plant intimidated by a simple pendulum as you say.
Go back to school you have no idea what your talking about ;D


Just because we don't know exactly when it will stop swinging, doesn't mean we cannot predict that it will eventually.  I am sure the MIT guys could not predict which number on the roulette wheel a ball will stop on - doesn't mean it will keep hopping forever.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: broli on June 27, 2008, 12:50:56 AM
Just because we don't know exactly when it will stop swinging, doesn't mean we cannot predict that it will eventually.  I am sure the MIT guys could not predict which number on the roulette wheel a ball will stop on - doesn't mean it will keep hopping forever.

"Yeah it might circle earth and go to the moon a few times but at the end it'll end up 1cm from its starting position." Kind of the same sense you're using. Predictions are useless in some cases you know.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on June 27, 2008, 02:15:01 AM
Sorry for being rude in my last post Im having a bad hair day, my point is until we have spent 20 years exploring every possibility as some inventors have we will never know. We all know history is littered with examples where 99.9 percent of the people on this planet were wrong in there opinions ie Columbus--the world is flat, the Wright brothers airplane,Teslas alternating currents, Goddards rockets etc......So how can we be so sure we are not wrong now, in truth we cannot know until we have explored every concievable option which nobody seems to care to do. Read the history books---- we have been completely wrong many more times than we have ever been right.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: greendoor on June 27, 2008, 11:58:51 AM
@greendoorA bunch of genius types at MIT once said they would need 1000X more computing power to solve the inertial moments of a simple fluid filled pendulum and even then they conceeded that the accuracy would be too low to matter. Now put a pendulum on a lever weighted AND loaded on the other end---- the inertial,velocity,time variables are near infinite and yet you presume to understand what the boys at MIT admitted could never be calculated. When I built this machine I understood no simulator would solve this and that it could take years to get all the variables correct to produce the desired effects so I moved on to easier projects. Can you imagine an engineer of 20 years having operated 10,000HP turbines in a 160MW power plant intimidated by a simple pendulum as you say.
Go back to school you have no idea what your talking about ;D

You are right - I haven't got a clue what i'm talking about.  I must be a frikken moron.  But at least I didn't confuse a relatively simple pendulum & lever system with a hydrodynamic fluid-flow analysis.  That would be really ignorant ...  ;D

Fluid flow has much greater potential for free-energy - especially if vortex flow is created.  You would basically have to account for the movements of every single molecule.  For example - does fluid flow impart some order out of chaos, and perhaps negative entropy?  Could the random brownian movement of particles be given a bias in one direction?  That would not add any new Energy into the system - but could it allow for some unexpected velocity increases? ... and from a local reference frame might this be percieved as power increase - like a tornado-in-a-can?  If we used some of this power, would the temperature of the fluid drop ... and would energy flow into this system? ... the questions go on and on ...

But you are right - I have no idea what i'm talking about.  Go right on looking for power out of a simple pendulum & lever ... you might get lucky.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: edelind on June 27, 2008, 03:44:21 PM
G'day Broli and all,

This has been done many times. Brian Berrett and Ron Pugh have used similar arrangements. This is all documented. All have walked away from it since there is NO energy gain in the device!

Hans von Lieven

Where is documented? Do you have a link?

Also, they have walked away from what? From using an electromagnet to keep the pendulum working or from the entire Milcovitz device?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 27, 2008, 04:46:24 PM
Here are my new videos,
These are just test models, if I feel like we might get something out of this I will be making a large better built model
I reallly want to keep this as simple as I can and when I run this through a computer simulator it doesn't stop??? AND YES the friction is on...lol ..give it a try



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1juFXh_1hQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0GNAgbkp-Y

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on June 27, 2008, 07:18:20 PM
Where is documented? Do you have a link?

Also, they have walked away from what? From using an electromagnet to keep the pendulum working or from the entire Milcovitz device?


Here are the references Edelind:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator

http://pesn.com/2007/03/18/9500462_Berrett_pendulums/

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Milkovic_Two-Stage_Mechanical_Oscillator

Ron Pugh?s pendulum set-up is on the Milkovic site somewhere

Brian Berrett has publicly stated he would not do any further work on the device, Ron Pugh after some initial effort was never heard of again.

My own work on the device can be followed by the links in the Milkovic article in Peswiki as well as through a number of postings in this thread, if you want to go back far enough.

Hope that helps.

Hans von Lieven


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 28, 2008, 12:52:12 AM
Where is documented? Do you have a link?

Also, they have walked away from what? From using an electromagnet to keep the pendulum working or from the entire Milcovitz device?



Here are the references Edelind:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator

http://pesn.com/2007/03/18/9500462_Berrett_pendulums/

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Milkovic_Two-Stage_Mechanical_Oscillator

Ron Pugh?s pendulum set-up is on the Milkovic site somewhere

Brian Berrett has publicly stated he would not do any further work on the device, Ron Pugh after some initial effort was never heard of again.

My own work on the device can be followed by the links in the Milkovic article in Peswiki as well as through a number of postings in this thread, if you want to go back far enough.

Hope that helps.

Hans von Lieven


Hello Hans,
I am trying to find your info but can't?? Can you cut and paste it for me??? I have gone back all the way in this link and could not find anyone doing a set up like mine???(with the crank)?? it is a very easy set up and I am having trouble building the crank but I trying??!!
:)
Have you were you trying to get the energy from the lever??
I know about the ones from the sight and I don't know if you noticed those are just pendulums ??? someone on here (I RON) is building a nice set up for the pendulum.
After I have gotten going on the crank a little better today I was thinking about putting a small and the bottom of the cranks and see what happens ?? I am going to try a bunch of stuff so any input you can give would be great!!
Thanks
Jeff
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on June 28, 2008, 01:39:33 AM
@bradpitt

G'day Jeff,

I cannot recall at the moment what your setup looks like, can you give me a link?

Berret mounted his magnet on a small wheel with a weight on the bottom so it would act as a pendulum. This gave him the precision he needed to activate it in spite of the irregular up and down movement of the fulcrum.

Hans
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 28, 2008, 02:36:40 AM
 Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
? Reply #755 on: June 27, 2008, 11:39:33 PM ? Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@bradpitt

G'day Jeff,

I cannot recall at the moment what your setup looks like, can you give me a link?

Berret mounted his magnet on



Hans
Here is were I got today...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0HYl5mNaorY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on June 28, 2008, 04:51:04 AM
Guess what I am finding ...the wheel has to be just below where the center of the pendulum weight it

Hans,
 if you have a computer SIM then I recommend running it and I think you will be surprised what you will find??? I can not paste anything here from the computer sim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on June 28, 2008, 04:55:11 AM
I have WM2D  my e-mail is hans@keelytech.com

Hans
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on June 28, 2008, 04:57:46 AM
Jeff .. I suggest you attach some sort of flywheel to your crank axle e.g. a cast iron or steel pulley wheel or a large castor wheel etc - this will store some of the rotational kinetic energy & give it back again in the direction of rotation - if the pendulum action is erratic or irregular then a flywheel is IMO the best way to smooth out energy demands.

As you have it, frictional losses will slow things down & reduce the average amplitude of the pendulum making it harder & harder to get it over 12 o'cl, IMO.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on June 29, 2008, 05:53:08 PM
The Milkovich device has been around for years, and yet no one has proved if it is overunity or not. Presure of work means I have no time to experiment. I have thought of a simple experiment , which will take little time, which will prove one way or the other if it is overunity. First imagine a typical set-up. Horizontal beam pivoted near the centre, with pendulum at th right. on the left, the beam is used to lift a known weight at each stroke. Now imagine a piece of sting. Yhis is fixed to the pendulum at a point about midway between the pendulums weight and its bearing. This string now runs through a pulley or guide placed as near the beam pivot as pssible under the beam. From here, the string hangs vertically, and on its end is a known weight. Midway between this wight and the beam pivot is another guide consisting of a flat plate with a hole in it mounted on a bracket. We will call this guide 2. Finally we attach a second string to the weight and run it through guide 2.
             If we now pull on this second string, we raise the weight up to the underside of guide 2. Keer it hel there, and set the pendulum swinging. When the pendulum is at its right hand end of the swing, release the weight and allow it to fall, thus pulling on thependulum and giving it an input of energy. As soon as the weight hits the floor, pullit back up, and hold it untill the pendulum again reaches the right hand end of its swing, and release it. Carefully synchronise your pulling with the swinging of the pendulum.
           By measuring the weight, and the distance it falls, we can express the input energy to the pendulum per cycle in gram-centimetres or inch ounces. If the left side of the beam is used to lift a heavier weight, we can measure the out put pr cycle in the same units. This is proof beyond doubt.
before doing the test ensure the device is tuned for max performance. Please post your results wether pos or neg. Note that this tesr would be easier on a large model with a slow pendulum
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: bradpitt on July 01, 2008, 04:36:47 AM
Here is my new video...because what I realized is that I was just making a bigger over balanced wheel....so I went smaller (easy to work on)
Still not working
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zpl2u-buSw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: edelind on July 01, 2008, 09:24:30 AM
G'day Broli and all,

This has been done many times. Brian Berrett and Ron Pugh have used similar arrangements. This is all documented. All have walked away from it since there is NO energy gain in the device!

Hans von Lieven



Thank you for the links. They are very instructive. Anyway, I don't see anywhere where it's said that there is no energy gain. In fact everywhere is noticed more energy at output than at input. Brian Berret looks like he abandoned this design not because of the efficiency, but because of the extremely difficult tuning that is required (he also has a video where he shows the random move of the lever with no weight).  At the time of making his project open source he only was able to run the device for 15 seconds.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: edelind on July 01, 2008, 09:43:59 AM
Regarding the complexity of oscillations, I think a pendulum with a lever is somehow similar with a double pendulum, at least as complexity.

Watch a demonstration here (who dares to tune that?):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whvl6CikDxA

And a simulation here:
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~plynch/SwingingSpring/doublependulum.html

In fact, with the attached spring, the complexity becomes even wilder, maybe similar with this:
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~plynch/SwingingSpring/springpendulum.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stevensuf on July 06, 2008, 06:55:25 AM
I wonder why some people find this example so difficult to get into their heads.

Imagine a see saw saw one side was 10m and the other 2m, one side had 10kg on it then other 2kg,
(ie the 2m end has 10kg and the 10m end 2 kg)
it would sit in balance, say i added 1kg to either side it would fall and the other rise , if i removed the
kilo it would eventually return to balance.

OK so say on the side with 2m i put a 1 kg weight and a 9kilo pendulum.
 With no motion it is all balanced, so say i raise the pendulum by 90 degrees the system is no unblanaced
and will fall towards the 10m end.

Once the pendulum is released it simply falls,  the lever will begin to raise, when the pendulum reaches mid
point ie vertical it will have an effective force akin to its original weight, ie say 9kg x 10ms for gravity say 90n (rounding
i do know g=9.81 n) which would make the system balanced again, but you also have the force of its velocity at this
point acting directly downwards, now say it was moving at 2 m/s it now has a force of 118n ie effectively making it act
like a weight which is 20% heavier upsetting the balance and raising the beam higher than it would if it were stationary.
the pendulum then reaches the other 90 degree apex repeating the effective weightless ie no force acting on the lever
part of the cycle and it falls again.

It is extremely simple, the reason for the long beam is so as not to upset the pendulum cycle by its motion, the only
extra energy put in to maintaining the pendulum is to overcome natural forces - wind , frictions etc

No energy  is lost in the pendulum swing ie put into the lever, the lever simply moves due to decreases/increases of force
on the lever by the pendulum changing position. ie the effective weight on the pendulum side changes during its swing.

Ie at 90 degrees we have an effective weight reduction of -9kg at vertical bottom and increase of +2kg

remember people weight is an illusion there is only mass and the force acting on it that give us this number! 10kg on earth weighs 6kg on mars or 3kg on the moon!

A simple test ie swing the pendulum with the lever locked time how long it takes to stop, unlock the lever change the pendulum length to adjust to the lever motion , swing it again and time how long it takes to stop, if no difference (others have reported this) then certainly nothing goes from the pendulum to the lever.

If only people would question the nonsense taught at school, if you ignore the teaching that says you cant get work out of gravity and look at it logically and reasonably then it is all extremely simple.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on July 07, 2008, 01:02:35 AM

snip
Once the pendulum is released it simply falls,  the lever will begin to raise, when the pendulum reaches mid point ie vertical it will have an effective force akin to its original weight, the only
extra energy put in to maintaining the pendulum is to overcome natural forces - wind , frictions etc

No energy  is lost in the pendulum swing ie put into the lever, the lever simply moves due to decreases/increases of force on the lever by the pendulum changing position. ie the effective weight on the pendulum side changes during its swing.
snip
Ie at 90 degrees we have an effective weight reduction of -9kg at vertical bottom and increase of +2kg

snip

A simple test ie swing the pendulum with the lever locked time how long it takes to stop, unlock the lever change the pendulum length to adjust to the lever motion , swing it again and time how long it takes to stop, if no difference (others have reported this) then certainly nothing goes from the pendulum to the lever.

snip


True up to a certain point but several ambiguities have crept in.

"the lever will begin to raise" (sic) Which side of the lever? You mean the lever on the opposite
side to the pendulum will rise, I assume.

"no energy is lost..." is simply not true. The rise and fall of the pendulum pivot point, at the end of
the lever, directly disturbs the swing of the pendulum. You are in effect dropping the pendulum as
it approaches the bottom of it's swing. This is an energy loss. A further loss occurs as the pendulum
swings up to it's apogee, there the pivot point rises as the weight lessens.This perturbation of the
pendulum is exactly opposite to the natural motion needed to maintain the swing, as shown in the
Botafumeiro scene, where the monks pull down on the rope... raising the incense burner, at the
bottom of it's swing.I am not advocating this labor intensive approach... just using it as an example.
Try it and you will see.

Ron




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: greendoor on July 07, 2008, 12:11:53 PM
A simple way of looking at where the energy goes is this:

If your Milkovic beam is stalled - the pendulum just oscillates like an ordinary pendulum.  This proves nothing.

If the beam moves - doing work - then consider the degrees of angular momentum that are "lost" - they are the exact same number of degrees that the beam moves.  The energy that keeps a pendulum going is the pull of gravity on the fall down.  As the beam moves X number of degrees down, the pendulum is robbed of exactly X number of degrees of gravity assist. 

The reason we are fooled by Milkovic is because a Lever is a cool torque amplifier - at the expense of distance.  And a pendulum is a cool energy storage device.  Coupled together - we can fool ourselves by putting in a small force - applied over a greater distance, and over a greater period of time - to achieve a great thumping impulse for a very short period of time, over a very short distance ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on July 11, 2008, 12:27:30 AM
A simple way of looking at where the energy goes is this:

If your Milkovic beam is stalled - the pendulum just oscillates like an ordinary pendulum.  This proves nothing.

If the beam moves - doing work - then consider the degrees of angular momentum that are "lost" - they are the exact same number of degrees that the beam moves.  The energy that keeps a pendulum going is the pull of gravity on the fall down.  As the beam moves X number of degrees down, the pendulum is robbed of exactly X number of degrees of gravity assist. 

The reason we are fooled by Milkovic is because a Lever is a cool torque amplifier - at the expense of distance.  And a pendulum is a cool energy storage device.  Coupled together - we can fool ourselves by putting in a small force - applied over a greater distance, and over a greater period of time - to achieve a great thumping impulse for a very short period of time, over a very short distance ...


Unfortunately, you offer this as an opinion only. 
Where is the experiment and the numbers to back up your pronouncements?

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on July 16, 2008, 03:43:41 AM
Latest news from www.veljkomilkovic.com
 
Dear friends,

recently Mr. Bojan Petkovic completed the draft version of his mathematical model and analysis of the two-stage mechanical oscillator and now he wishes to share it with the scientific community for public discussion and peer review.

Modeling and simulation of a double pendulum with pad by Bojan Petkovic, engineer:
An independent mathematical analysis by Bojan Petkovic considers the Veljko Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator in a form of double pendulum with a pad that presents a mechanical system which is not analyzed in the literature:
"In this paper, results of the simulation of a double pendulum with a horizontal pad are presented. Pendulums are arranged in such a way that in the static equilibrium, small pendulum takes the vertical position, while the big pendulum is in a horizontal position and rests on the pad. Motion during one half oscillation is investigated. Impact of the big pendulum on the pad is considered to be ideally inelastic. Characteristic positions and angular velocities of both pendulums, as well as their energies at each instant of time are presented. Obtained results proved to be in accordance with the motion of the real physical system. Double pendulum with pad refers to the two-stage mechanical oscillator that is invented, patented and constructed by Serbian inventor Veljko Milković..."

You can read and download the paper on the next link (213 KB - PDF):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Bojan_Petkovic-Modeling_and_Simulation_of_a_Double_Pendulum_With_Pad.pdf

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cleanfuture on July 16, 2008, 05:30:55 AM
I have built and tested a replica of the Milcovitc design myself. It is about 1m tall and is entirely made from a K-Nex construction kit. The model incorporates a .8m diameter wheel that is driven by a geared up ratchet mechanism attached to the pivot shaft of the main cross beam. The idea was to convert the oscillation into a rotation of a flywheel. Mechanically, It was actually not all  that hard to do. That is why I can't work out that Milcovitc has not build a model like that himself yet. He has registered a patent on a design like this but has, to the best of my knowledge, not built one like that. If you want to prove if you can make self sustainable power, a rotational output is ideal because it interfaces with of the shelf electric generator/alternators. Milcovitc does not seem to be very professional. When I saw his video where he is proposing that the pendulum pump could alleviate unemployment in the country by employing people to hand operate pendulum pumps allover the place, I knew he was a propeller-head. Anyway, my tests showed clearly that the load from the wheel does indeed reflect back on the movement of the pendulum. With the main beam locked rigid, the pendulum will swing considerably longer than if the beam is allowed to oscillate and create power through the wheel. The rate of damping on the pendulum is proportional to the rate of amplitude of the beam. If you gays are interested, I will post a picture of the thing.
Uli
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on July 16, 2008, 05:38:47 PM
@Cleanfurure. I still believe this device may be overunity. If you study the work of RHEAD100 on Youtube, his maths seems to suggest that max efficiency is achieved at small movements of the beam. Out put must be extracted from both the up and down movements of the beam. Tuning would seem to be the whole key. I am slowly collecting parts for a new model. Final proof of overunity in my opinion can accurately be measured by rising/falling weights, see my last post.
                    In my opinion the mathematical analysis by Bojan Petkovic is a waste of time, because having waded through his pages of B/S we are still left wondering is he saying it is overunity or not?????
                      @Cleanfuture, please read my last post. This idea, after tuning will tell you the truth.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cleanfuture on July 17, 2008, 07:55:28 AM
@Cleanfurure. I still believe this device may be overunity. If you study the work of RHEAD100 on Youtube, his maths seems to suggest that max efficiency is achieved at small movements of the beam. Out put must be extracted from both the up and down movements of the beam. Tuning would seem to be the whole key. I am slowly collecting parts for a new model. Final proof of overunity in my opinion can accurately be measured by rising/falling weights, see my last post.
                    In my opinion the mathematical analysis by Bojan Petkovic is a waste of time, because having waded through his pages of B/S we are still left wondering is he saying it is overunity or not?????
                      @Cleanfuture, please read my last post. This idea, after tuning will tell you the truth.

I appreciate your comment. I did try to keep the stroke as short as possible though. The output from the beam axle is geared up 12 to 1 to get appreciable angular movement on the drive gear to the flywheel. This shows, since power is force over distance, as soon as the power output is increased, the pendulum is dampened. What you are saying is that there is some kind of non linear harmonic relationship going between the pendulum period and the beam movement. I think the way you are proposing to prove this will work. I just cannot understand that Milcovitc has not been able to build a device himself that provides irrefutable prove of overunity.
Uli
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on July 18, 2008, 08:07:55 PM
@Cleanfuture. Does your ratchet flywheel extract energy from both the up and down movements of the beam? I was looking at a replication that drives the pendulum by an electromagnet. the beam drives a crude generator. Claimed figures are 2.4 watts in and 3.5 Watts out. I think a bicycle hub type generator would give a bigger output for less drag. 50 years ago when I was at school. the school had a master/slave clock system. The master clock had a long pendulum. This was pulsed by an electromagnet about once per minute. A simple elegant mechanical device detected the reduction of amplitude of the pendulum, and it was this that switched on the electromagnet. I understood how it worked, and can still picture it in my mind. I would post diagrams, but I do not have the ability. If anyone is interested I will try to describe it. It would drive a pendulum to the same average amplitude in spite of variable damping.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gyulasun on July 18, 2008, 08:22:12 PM
Hi Neptune,

 It would drive a pendulum to the same average amplitude in spite of variable damping.

but the question is: at what input energy with respect to any useful damping?  (on damping we mean useful load, right?)

thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: edelind on July 19, 2008, 09:10:39 AM
@Cleanfuture. Does your ratchet flywheel extract energy from both the up and down movements of the beam? I was looking at a replication that drives the pendulum by an electromagnet. the beam drives a crude generator. Claimed figures are 2.4 watts in and 3.5 Watts out. I think a bicycle hub type generator would give a bigger output for less drag. 50 years ago when I was at school. the school had a master/slave clock system. The master clock had a long pendulum. This was pulsed by an electromagnet about once per minute. A simple elegant mechanical device detected the reduction of amplitude of the pendulum, and it was this that switched on the electromagnet. I understood how it worked, and can still picture it in my mind. I would post diagrams, but I do not have the ability. If anyone is interested I will try to describe it. It would drive a pendulum to the same average amplitude in spite of variable damping.
Please describe it! Many thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on July 19, 2008, 02:45:27 PM
@edelind.Imagine a simple pendulum. Now imagine a hinge about one quarter down from the top.  attached to this a hinge is a horizontal bar , in the same plane as the pendulum swing. At the far end of this bar is a another hinge from which hangs a short vertical bar, say 2 cms long. This second hinge is arranged to allow the short vertical bar to swing only 45 degrees either side of the vertical. As the main pendulum swings. this vertical bar wipes back and forth along a fixed horizontal plate. The length of this plate is such that , at each end, the vertical bar drops over the end of the plate, and thus on its return journey swing the opposite way on its hinge,so that it always trails behind its hinge. Near one end of the horizontal plate, is a groove, parallel to the axis on which the main pendulum swings. Normally the vertical bar passes over this groove. But as the pendulums swing decays, a stroke will occur when the vertical bar, instead of dropping over the end of the plate, will stop with its lower edge in the groove. when the pendulum changes direction, the vertical bar will move on its hinge, forcing the horizontal bar from which it hangs, to rise higher than normal. As it rises, it briefly closes apair of contacts to energise the drive magnet .If anyone understands this, maybe they could post a diagram, as this is beyond my skills.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on July 19, 2008, 08:27:15 PM
My last post, describing this mechanism was not quite right. I only saw it 50 years ago in the headmasters study. The only time you got to see it was when bending over to receive corporal punishment, so my mind was perhaps on other things. Further research has shown that this device is called the HIPP TOGGLE.
   Enter this on Youtube and see the video by RODALCO2007 . This shows it perfectly. Also notice the design of the electromagnet that drives the pendulum. Very efficient because the air gap is consistently small. I guess a picture really is worth a thousand words. Hope this helps someone.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on July 20, 2008, 12:32:11 PM
@gyulasun. re the question in your last post. This is the question everybody would like answered. This needs to be answered in practice , not by mathematical theory. I think that the key is an efficient pendulum drive that wastes no energy. Could that key be the Hipp toggle?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on July 23, 2008, 08:06:13 AM
The latest news from www.veljkomilkovic.com - New video by Veljko Milkovic

Dear friends,

we are very proud to present you our new (old) video presentation.

Video: Cart with a pendulum - Vehicles with internal and inertial drive


New video presentation of Serbian inventor, Veljko Milkovic, demonstrating his perennial research work on the idea of moving vehicle without indirect mechanism (transmission). Milkovic explains a new power and how the isolated powers can perform one-way moving of model using tensile forces of physical pendulum.

There is also an attempt to improve and to confirm the law of action and reaction (The third Newton’s law), which hadn’t undergone any revision from its beginning.

From the contents: Tensile forces of physical pendulum, Motion without usual reflection, An addition to the Law of action and reaction (The third Newton’s law), Cart with a pendulum, Truck with horizontal physical pendulum...

This video is an excerpt from the TV show “Svet ideja”, Radio Television of Novi Sad (Serbia) recorded in 1996.

You can find and watch this video on the next link (YouTube video in English, 7 min.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foY5r2TMOo

More info: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Antigravitacioni_motorEng.html

Additional information can be found also in the book by Veljko Milkovic "Anti-gravity motor":
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/KnjigeEng.html#motor

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on August 12, 2008, 11:57:42 PM
Convincing proof?

testing large Milkovic 2 stage oscillator Video 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on August 24, 2008, 07:35:29 PM
Convincing proof?

testing large Milkovic 2 stage oscillator Video 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8

sorry but it is not a convincing proof
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 31, 2008, 10:41:18 PM
sorry but it is not a convincing proof

It shows something very interesting, that you can create motion/action without a reaction which defies newtons third law of motion.
Both this pendulum and a precessed gyroscope is able to do this, allthough scientists haven't deared to accept this, as daubting a law as fundamental to science as the third law of motion is an easy way of loosing your credible reputation as a scientist. But its true.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Marctwo on September 01, 2008, 02:08:34 PM
Although I'd expect this mechanism to be obvious to most, I can understand how a casual observer may be mislead by the 'magic' it seems to possess.

However, it's painfull to see a grown man put so much time and effort into something he obviously hasn't thought about.

It's a bit like the secondary momentum conduction device...  Ok, it's a tray on wheels.  But you can push 20kg on it with your little finger.  All I need to figure out is how to get the wheels to push the tray.  ::)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 01, 2008, 02:44:58 PM
It shows something very interesting, that you can create motion/action without a reaction which defies newtons third law of motion.

where do you see this action without reaction ?

if you can proof this fact , you are a genius
you have to become more famous than Einstein
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on September 01, 2008, 02:46:11 PM
Ok, it's a tray on wheels.  But you can push 20kg on it with your little finger.  All I need to figure out is how to get the wheels to push the tray.  ::)
You've missed the point. If you want to learn, go back to the inventors site, and read the papers.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Marctwo on September 01, 2008, 03:27:06 PM
You've missed the point. If you want to learn, go back to the inventors site, and read the papers.
No, I'm one of those that hasn't missed the point.

This device simply transfers energy to and fro between the pendulum and lever.  And quite inefficiently too.  The energy losses are mostly due to the usual friction and enertia acting on the load.  So it doesn't take much energy to keep it going as not much energy is lost in the first place.

Useful?  Given an appropriate context and an efficient design, yes.
Over-unity?  No.
Special or unusual?  No.
Worthy of a fancy name?  No.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 01, 2008, 05:42:50 PM
No, I'm one of those that hasn't missed the point.

This device simply transfers energy to and fro between the pendulum and lever.  And quite inefficiently too.  The energy losses are mostly due to the usual friction and enertia acting on the load.  So it doesn't take much energy to keep it going as not much energy is lost in the first place.

Useful?  Given an appropriate context and an efficient design, yes.
Over-unity?  No.
Special or unusual?  No.
Worthy of a fancy name?  No.


I can only disagree to what you have said here, as this clearly demonstrates an incredibly easy way to collect more energy from either or both gravitation and centrifugal force. It as been either ignored or not yet stumbled upon for centuries, but it without a doubt working.
When the pendulum swings back and forth, it loses only a tiny percentage of its energy in the process because of its low friction and air resistance, but still though it manages to manifest a force in the hinge, and that force is not related to the swing of the pendulum, as any ammount of work done by the hinge will not relate back to the pendulum. It is, to me at least, very easy to understand, and can also easly be demonstrated by yourself.

Its funny, because normaly that's the thing we allways want to restrict or remove as much as possible, at least when we want to make a wheel or anything rotating be as stable as possible.
Tell me why you think the pendulum is in some way diminishing its energy to the hinge, as their motions is totaly unrelated to each other and unable of affecting each other. Because really, the only thing that is affecting the hinge is the weight of the pendulum, which is more or less work free.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 01, 2008, 07:58:58 PM
I can only disagree to what you have said here, as this clearly demonstrates an incredibly easy way to collect more energy

what you say is so so so funny !!
if it is so easy to collect more energy ? so can you tell me , they work on this mecanical dual oscillation for 30 years and they have done a self runner ?

it is easy or not easy that is the question ?

Quote
Tell me why you think the pendulum is in some way diminishing its energy to the hinge, as their motions is totaly unrelated to each other and unable of affecting each other.

you are totaly wrong
the 2 motions are totaly = related
but they are mecanicaly unrelated
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 01, 2008, 08:40:47 PM
what you say is so so so funny !!
if it is so easy to collect more energy ? so can you tell me , they work on this mecanical dual oscillation for 30 years and they have done a self runner ?

it is easy or not easy that is the question ?

you are totaly wrong
the 2 motions are totaly = related
but they are mecanicaly unrelated
 

Its not easy, there you have it.
To make it be a self-runner you need to very accuratly time the hinge to pull or do something else which in turn can add energy to the pendulum for each turn, and not disturb or even halt it if the adjustments are done wrong.
I guess the man that created these machines wasn't interested in using a lot of time to make them drive themself when he easly could demonstrate the principle that made these machines exhibit an increased output of energy, (which is the force of gravity and centrifugal force in a state of ocsillation) which then would make people wanna try to do it for themselfs, at least it might be the reason :)

You can say that the moition of the pendulum and the hinge is connected, but still not all true since the pendulums swing doesn't directly add energy to the hinge, but the weight increase and decrease does, but is not related to the speed or "load" of the swing.
I mean, it wouldn't matter if the hinge stayed stationary all the time or if it was in full motion, the pendulum would swing with the same energy because no resistance or load was directly connected to the swing.

Therefore, the pendulum will continiously add energy to the hinge, no matter if you use it or not, and since the extraction of energy from the hinge doesn't affect the total energy of the pendulum you can say that they are not directly affected by each other, at least in one direction.

The way I see the mechanics of this is that when you add a pressure to the pendulum you can then collect the same presure in the hinge but in much larger quantities as it causes no drag on the pendulum.

I don't see any problem with this, of course though it remains to be tested to see if it can run itself, but as I see it its only a matter of skill and not a matter of limitation. I actually got a very crude drawing of a system which could in 'theory' make it run itself, mabye when I get the time I will try to build it ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 01, 2008, 10:16:17 PM
To make it be a self-runner you need to very accuratly time the hinge to pull or do something else which in turn can add energy to the pendulum for each turn,

i do a dual oscillation peuduleum
 a coil give a pull, each turn , to the oscillation system
the input is 1Volt and some mili amps !!  it is truly very easy to do it
but if the pull is week , the dual oscillation stops !!
the link beetween the 2 oscillations is very real , not virtual !!!

have you try what you say ?

Quote
Therefore, the pendulum will continiously add energy to the hinge, no matter if you use it or not,

this is totaly false !
do you know something of physics ? what is the conservation of energy ?

if you don t understand what hapen in this oscillation
you need to try and verify  all your theory by yourself
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 01, 2008, 11:09:22 PM
i do a dual oscillation peuduleum
 a coil give a pull, each turn , to the oscillation system
the input is 1Volt and some mili amps !!  it is truly very easy to do it
but if the pull is week , the dual oscillation stops !!
the link beetween the 2 oscillations is very real , not virtual !!!

have you try what you say ?

this is totaly false !
do you know something of physics ? what is the conservation of energy ?

if you don t understand what hapen in this oscillation
you need to try and verify  all your theory by yourself


I know that law very well and I also know that there are many experiments that is supposed be violating it.
The way I had thought of making it run by itself was purly mechanical and not electrical like you did, because it would be alot more easy and clear to understand, no need of messuring the input voltage/amps versus output and many other variables.
Also, mabye you didn't understand what i said.
The speed, power and resistance of the pendulum is totaly independent of the movment, power and resistance of the hinge.
It does not directly add energy to it, only indirectly via weight, and will not possibly by any means be loaded by the hinge (please test that claim for youself if you do not belive me).
And I thougth you understood that the whole point of this machine was that it broke that law (at least to the extent of what is known to us), and so creating more energy than input by us (not the total energy input).
I also thought that was the purpose of this site, but of course everyone should be allowed to be sceptical of claims that seems to good to be true.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on September 02, 2008, 01:49:44 AM
I know that law very well and I also know that there are many experiments that is supposed be violating it.

There is not a single experiment that demonstrates violation of the principle of conservation of energy.  If there was, it would be the biggest scientific news to come about in a long time.  Do you have any examples we do not know about?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 02, 2008, 02:40:32 AM
Sorry im going to bed now, but i'll try to post some links to experiments which has violated the "law" tomorrow.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 02, 2008, 07:38:03 AM
There is not a single experiment that demonstrates violation of the principle of conservation of energy.  If there was, it would be the biggest scientific news to come about in a long time.  Do you have any examples we do not know about?
this is totaly true like I said at the begining
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 02, 2008, 09:07:34 AM
energy cannot be created nor destroyed it can only change form. the constant change of form is free energy. this is everything now, then, and before, forever, eternal, no beginning or end. it is universally indivisibly everywhere, absolute. in other words this thing which is the beginning & end of any circumstance has always been which means it has no beginning or end because it is eternal and we are part of this. so yes free energy exists because it is self evident existence is always in constant change to become more and more of its complete self, we just haven't learned exactly how to harness this power yet.

people say you cannot get something for nothing. but what is nothing? if nothing of itself is applicable then there is something there no?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on September 02, 2008, 09:23:05 AM
energy cannot be created nor destroyed it can only change form. the constant change of form is free energy. this is everything now, then, and before, forever, eternal, no beginning or end. it is universally indivisibly everywhere, absolute. in other words this thing which is the beginning & end of any circumstance has always been which means it has no beginning or end because it is eternal and we are part of this. so yes free energy exists because it is self evident existence is always in constant change to become more and more of its complete self, we just haven't learned exactly how to harness this power yet.

people say you cannot get something for nothing. but what is nothing? if nothing of itself is applicable then there is something there no?

The only thing you can get for nothing is nothing.  And if nothing is something to you, well, I guess you are getting something, but it's really nothing.

And no, the constant change of energy form is not free energy.  For example, in a pendulum, and, more relevantly, in Milkovic's device, kinetic energy is constantly being exchanged for potential, plus some heat to friction.  However, there is no free energy to be gotten from such a device.  If you are calling this action free energy, well, that's not the free energy we are all looking for, and it cannot be harnessed in any way.  So really, none of what you said makes any sense at all.

It's like saying - this bar down the street offers free beer to everyone.  All you need to do is exchange your money for it, and you can have the free beer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 02, 2008, 09:34:12 AM
never mind what i said.
peace
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on September 03, 2008, 06:03:10 AM
this is totaly true like I said at the begining

Not for too long, at least in the sense of public and general knowledge.
 ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 03, 2008, 08:48:40 AM
Not for too long, at least in the sense of public and general knowledge.
 ;D

can you explain ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ChileanOne on September 04, 2008, 04:18:47 PM
can you explain ?

CoE is going to take a major hit in the near future. And from where you would least expect. Patience my friend, patience.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 04, 2008, 06:54:58 PM
CoE is going to take a major hit in the near future. And from where you would least expect. Patience my friend, patience.

I am waiting

I am waiting ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on September 12, 2008, 04:14:40 AM
Latest news from veljkomilkovic.com:

Veljko Milkovic - Video: Pendulum-Lever system different from simple machines better than transmissions

In a new video presentation, Veljko Milkovic, presents great advantages of using pendulum-lever system and ultra efficiency of two-stage mechanical oscillator experimentally demonstrating how it is many times better and effective than the simple machines and transmission systems.

From the contents:
Two-stage mechanical oscillator and two-armed lever;
Two-stage mechanical oscillator and transmission systems with gears, pulley wheels...;
Two-stage mechanical oscillator and pulley (simple machine), screw (simple machine), inclined plane, fly press;
Possible applications in industrial processes - pump jack example;
Hand water pump with a pendulum;
Two-stage mechanical oscillator as a big mechanical hammer...


You can find and watch this video on the next link (Google Video: English subtitles, 35 min.):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=951414596138700872
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on October 10, 2008, 11:29:30 AM
Latest:

Jovan Marjanovic - paper: Keys of Understanding Gravity Machines of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on October 11, 2008, 12:33:57 AM
If you gays are interested, I will post a picture of the thing.
Uli
Why do you let that thousands of people waste enormous time?
Why haven't you published picture and made a video?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on October 11, 2008, 12:58:36 AM
Jovan Marjanovic - paper: Keys of Understanding Gravity Machines of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf

From the paper above:

Quote
"Errors in Output Energy Calculation by Jovan Bebic

This part of the document is dedicated to measurement of oscillator performance by
Jovan Bebic (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf).
Input energy is given to the system only once by increasing potential energy of the
pendulum. It has been calculated using formula (8: Ep = mgh) for potential energy. Output energy has
been calculated by measuring distances left side of the level passed from the upper
position till striking down into the pillar until pendulum stopped. Then formula (8: Ep = mgh) has been
taken again with mass m2 of the level."

1. I believe that in this particular scenario, input Energy is measured OK. Ep = mgh.
2. But the "only" way to measure output Energy is to add some consumer or generator and to measure output energy.
Like dynamo lamps with oscilloscope:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_of_the_dynamo_lamp.pdf
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement_with_oscilloscope.pdf
That system has been built years ago* and this type of input AND otput measurement has not been shown yet?
Why?

*
(http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/masina4.jpg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 29, 2008, 04:50:58 PM
From the paper above:

1. I believe that in this particular scenario, input Energy is measured OK. Ep = mgh.
2. But the "only" way to measure output Energy is to add some consumer or generator and to measure output energy.
Like dynamo lamps with oscilloscope:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_of_the_dynamo_lamp.pdf
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement_with_oscilloscope.pdf
That system has been built years ago* and this type of input AND otput measurement has not been shown yet?
Why?


I have just read this news from www.freeenergynews.com:

Precise Energy Surplus Measurement (pdf) - Jovan Bebic demonstrates the new efficiency measurement of Milkovic’s two-stage oscillator in his new paper and reports that the output/input energy ratio is 2.284.

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Bebic_Precise_input-output_energy_measurement.pdf

Is this what you were looking for?!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on October 29, 2008, 08:55:24 PM
Is this what you were looking for?!
No.
Thats completely different scenario.
Why haven't the experimenter used previous scenario and measurement of Input Energy: E=mgh?
I think that  E=mgh is correct input Energy measurement...
That's so simple to measure and publish the results ... and again he did  not do it!
Why?
And if he can't make video he could at least try to make photographs of whole apparatus and its parts.

Thanks for the link...


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on October 29, 2008, 09:43:55 PM
Thats completely different scenario.
About this "new" scenario.
It's similar with measurement with dynamo lamps. At least we have video with that measurement so we see what experimenter does.

But with this "new" measurement we do not have video so we do not see what is experimenter doing. We can only guess!
For example:
Experimenter can change the speed of its arm that pushes dynamo lamp or dynamo meter. So I can speculate that:
1. If speed of the arm is almost constant we will almost have no light on dynamo lamp or almost no force on Dynamo meter.
(Check the video where one Guy pushes pendulum with the constant speed so Dynamo lamp producing NO ligt!!!(a=0, F=m*a=0, E=F*s=m*a*s=0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8)
2. But if speed of the arm is variable we will have acceleration (a > 0) = measurable Force (F=m*a) on Dynamo meter = light ( = measurable Energy E=F*s=m*a*s) on Dynamo lamp. (Check the same video from above when that guy has to push the pendulum with accelerated speed so that lamp can produce light!)
I think that in both cases (1. and 2.) there is equal input Energy in the system that cause one full oscillation.
But the measured input energy is completely different! (In 1. you have NO light at lamp = small "input" Energy = "overunity" and in 2. you have full light).
And another thing: how can you tell how much of that measured energy is eaqual to the one that is injected in the system! How do you know that dynamo lamp or dynamo meter measures that particular energy?

So I guess that this type of measurement need more scientific theoretical bases.
First you have to prove that force that you measure is equal to the force that influence on the input Energy of the system...
I think it is not completely the same Force...
(see all explanation above).

The point is that it is better to first measure and publish results for the scenario where input Energy is measured by formula E=mgh.
It's more simple and this scenario can be more simple explained than the one with dynamo lamps and dynamo meter that is more complex and in my opinion where is more possibility to make wrong Input Energy measurement.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 29, 2008, 10:00:36 PM

That system has been built years ago* and this type of input AND otput measurement has not been shown yet?
Why?


Because this system, under the proper analysis, is NOT over unity, as it is "claimed" to be.

The output energy can not only be measured, but it can also be calculated.
It is the sum of the verticle (downward) force, and its associated duration, acting on the pendulum at maximum velocity. [ as it passes bottom dead center]   m*g sin (angle from verticle when released)
there are dozens of other equations that could be substituted here, pendulum mechanics have been studied into the ground hundreds of years ago..  What is being done in this system, is the verticle force is being utilized, instead of just wasted as "stress" on the arm as the pendulum swings past the bottom center.  This does not interupt the horizontal momentum of the pendulum, so it keeps oscillating as normal, this force being obtained with each 1/2 cycle for a short duration.

The sum of all these energy values [force * distance moved verticaly] is equal to the original m*g*h of the pendulum starting position.
(in practice slightly less energy is obtained out, due to frictional losses)

the working end of the machine is simple leverage, the get the "mass equivalent" for each swing of the lever equations, simply divide the verticle force on the pendulum, by gravity [9.8 m/s]
then divide again by the verticle displacement. (this is the distance the pendulum moves up/down when it passed the bottom center)

with this value, you can calculate the capacity of your working lever, for instance - to operate a water pump, or small dynamo.

with each half cycle, the lever is 're-set' because the downward force only acts on the arm for a short duration, after which time, the working end of the lever has 100% of the mass.

This will continue until a time slightly less than that of a normal pendulum winddown, and all the input energy is consumed, then the pendulum must be reset.

You could attach some clockwork to wind up a weight, or spring mechanism to keep the pendulum going and close the cycle. It could prolong the system for a very long time, but this will eventually wind down and stop.

It is a very efficient machine, and has advantages of being able to expend energy cyclically over a duration of time. Which works great for manualy operated machines like remote water/oil pumps, dynamos, compressors, air-pumps, ect...

Watt for Watt you get back slightly less energy than you put into it.

Title: orion aero fraud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: empiricalobserver2012 on October 29, 2008, 10:20:22 PM
Steven Greer's AERO and Orion Project: sincere effort to usher in free energy or eloquent intel. front
 
 
Steven Greer, the chairman of The Disclosure Project, the organization founded in the early ninety nineties to disclose the presence of extraterrestrials and government suppression of evidence regarding the matter has taken on a newer, more daring escapade. This time, disclosing free energy technology to the world by presenting a robust , functional, closed loop, multiple kilowatt free energy device to the world, in tandem with a myriad of free energy inventors and a network of elite celebrities who are determined to see clean abundant alternatives into to the light. All this will be presented at a conference at the
National Press Club, in the same fashion as his famed 01 conference. The idea is to reach hundreds of millions, to make them aware that there are more clean alternatives than wind , geothermal and solar. He has stated that he is working on having a demonstrator unit built  and have it be duplicated and verified by at least three independent sources. So, we assume that there are no robust units available in the public domain and that this is the obstacle to the grand press conference. He founded two organizations in this light- a non profit- Orion Project- to develop technology  and a standard company- AERO(Advanced Energy Research Organization) for marketing. In addition to this, he has asked for the public to donate three million dollars for a research facility. He states repeatedly through radio talk shows and visual presentations that all free energy inventors needs to work with him because that's the only way they can get around the ardent suppression of the last 100 years. The suppression is without doubt but the fact of the matter is that there are numerous free energy machines in the public domain, robust , multiple kilowatt. They are few and far between , but the holders of these units would be more than happy to give Greer a unit if they believed he was sincere. Greer does not have to have it build and some have been on record for multiple decades and their validity is incontrovertible, already verified and either ready for production as is or on the
brink of it. It is doubtful that he is not aware of:
 
 
1. testatika 3kw self running, harnessing electrostatic energy, multiple units, ranging from 300 watts to 30 kilowatts have been running Meternitha ,Switzerland for the last 30 years
 
 
 
2. bedini generator 10kw, runs John Bedini's workshop lights, New Energy Series dvds
 
 
 
3. newman generator - has been on record for 20 years , validated by 40 professionals, Joe Newman  appeared on johnny Carson, and given wide media coverage, has videos on google video showing his machines work
 
 
4. Daniel Dingel water cars, on record since 1968, has multiple cars running on water for everyday driving and farm work, Daniel Dingel is not dead and his cars, which exist today are as functional as anything Stan Meyer came up with.
 
 
Based of of his cozy relationship with people like the Rockefellers( the illuminati) and his lack of action as far the obvious is concerned, it must be looked upon as a likely possibility that whole affair may be nothing but a trojan hose, keeping tracks on inventors  and keeping them from attempting anything on their own.this is not a novel concept, the Noetics Institute of Edgar mitchell is just that. On the other hand , free energy is not intangible such as aliens, and we are at the cusp of a totalitarian police state- the new world order- and free energy would disrupt that
 
i call upon governing members of the free energy movement, such as Sterling d Allan and Tom Beardan to look into this affair because something stinks
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 29, 2008, 10:54:21 PM
Well, there you have some of the reasons to why I haven't yet managed to pulls myself up and donate some money to their project, its still to little they are going for. But apperently bearden has cooporated with Greer on some of these technologies, even though he hasn't introduced the meg there.

The reason to why I don't think its a setup is because of the 2001 press conferance, which was so far past what you'd normally would have expected to be publicly avaiable. That seemed honest. But I think they are a little stuck now, mabye if the are about to release some stanly meiers technology and do some Pulse motor testing.

But that meeting was all along about both aliens and about free energy technologies and the releated gravity propulsion systems, so that bit isn't so hard to understand.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 04, 2008, 06:00:12 PM
Why haven't the experimenter used previous scenario and measurement of Input Energy: E=mgh?
I think that  E=mgh is correct input Energy measurement...
That's so simple to measure and publish the results ... and again he did  not do it!
Why?

I have just got this paper - the author explained very well why E=mgh is NOT correct input Energy measurement and adequate method for this machine?!:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Xaverius on November 05, 2008, 06:31:31 AM
YouTube:  testing milkovic 2 stage oscillator video 6
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on November 05, 2008, 12:11:59 PM
YouTube:  testing milkovic 2 stage oscillator video 6
this is not a test
see http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg124981#msg124981
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on November 05, 2008, 12:12:58 PM

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Bebic_Precise_input-output_energy_measurement.pdf



sorry but the maths are not correct
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on November 05, 2008, 02:05:27 PM
I have just got this paper - the author explained very well why E=mgh is NOT correct input Energy measurement and adequate method for this machine?!:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf
Thank you for the link!
There are few issues about it but I will comment only one:
If you read my previous posts you will see that I have commented one particular measurement scenario described by Jovan Bebic in paper:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf
That scenario includes only one lift of the pendulum!!!
And for that particular scenario and that particular apparatus, I think measurement of input energy calculated by formula E=m*g*h is correct.

In that paper Bebic claims that "ratio of energy at the output and energy at the input is 22.89"
To prove that (overunity) claim all he have to do is to put Generator at lever-beam side (to measure output Energy) and (since input Energy is measured correctly by formula E=m*g*h) to pick up the Nobel Prize (and money with it)!

I personally believe he and Milkovic did that measurement but decided not to publish the results.
I think that they have no problem to constantly publish the measurement results of "overunity", but seems (to me) that they have problem to publish other (correct and scientific) measurements that do not show overunity... I think that this people maybe believe that by hiding some measured data will help "their" cause.
Well I also think that when somebody measure and publish all relevant data we will all better see with what we are dealing here...
Seems that now we can't see the whole picture because the people that have oscillators do not publish all measured data.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on November 05, 2008, 02:23:10 PM
Quote
Quote from: Merg on October 29, 2008, 03:50:58 PM
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Bebic_Precise_input-output_energy_measurement.pdf
sorry but the maths are not correct
And to be able to figure out correct math we need correct Physics!
Author (Jovan Bebic or somebody other...) should post System Equations first and then we could see what force is he measuring.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on November 05, 2008, 04:02:30 PM
And to be able to figure out correct math we need correct Physics!
what is this correct physics ?
until now the standart model is correct !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on November 05, 2008, 05:33:19 PM
what is this correct physics ?
until now the standart model is correct !
Yeah that's exactly what I mean.
But as we can all see there is no System Equations in quoted "measurement" by Jovan Bebic.
So my "analysis" of that measurement is:
No (system) equations = No correct physics = No correct Math = No correct measurement ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on November 05, 2008, 06:36:49 PM
Yeah that's exactly what I mean.
But as we can all see there is no System Equations in quoted "measurement" by Jovan Bebic.
So my "analysis" of that measurement is:
No (system) equations = No correct physics = No correct Math = No correct measurement ...

ok
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 05, 2008, 09:33:04 PM
And for that particular scenario and that particular apparatus, I think measurement of input energy calculated by formula E=m*g*h is correct.

What I see is that the same author explained very well, shortly and clearly, what is the problem with that formula for input measurement E=mgh and why it cannot be correct for efficiency measurements of this two-stage oscillator:

However, over time, two problems using this simple formula (E=mgh) were found:
1) Once the pendulum starts swinging and moving the lever arm up and down, its
starting angle (position 1 or position 5 in Fig. 3, see below) will go down each
new period. The Pendulum will not be able to move the lever arm until the
end of its swing
. It will stop moving the lever arm once its starting angle
comes close to position 2 or 4, see below. Then it will continue swinging in
vain, one hour or more. This means that the pendulum has spent around half
of its potential energy on moving the lever arm and the other half as friction
loses while swinging in vain
. This ratio could be even worse, depending on
the oscillator.
2) The second problem is, that each new pendulum period would diminish the
amplitude of the lever arm
. This would complicate measuring of the output
energy by any chosen method.  

The method chosen by Jovan Bebic has solved both these problems. That is, to
keep adding energy to the pendulum once its starting angle was in position 1 at all times.
Thus the amplitude of the lever arm, as well as the output energy on the generator is
constant and easy to measure.

Also, Mr. Veljko Milkovic has always had an opinion that the efficiency of the
oscillator is in the fact that it is necessary to invest less energy to keep the pendulum
swinging than the energy received from the lever arm
. Using a formula for potential
energy would be the same as measuring the efficiency of an engine before it reached its
working temperature.

Extract from:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on November 05, 2008, 11:13:31 PM
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf

1.
Quote
"The method chosen by Jovan Bebic has solved both these problems. That is, to
keep adding energy to the pendulum once its starting angle was in position 1 at all times."

I think that instead Ep= m*g*h we will have Ep=m*g*dh (dh=height differential) which is the same formula.
BTW you need here precise strokes to the pendulum + very accurate (slow motion mode) camera with visual scale measuring system + error of the measurement as approximation of the last pendulum swing angle recorded by the camera in slow motion mode...

2.
Quote
"For short term usage of the oscillator, formula Ep = mgh can be used..."
If the oscillator is intended for long term usage (and it is) then the initial energy for raising the pendulum up
can be easy disregarded. For short term usage it can not.

And for only one! lift of the pendulum, we have no problems to calculate Ep = mgh.
Since Jovan Bebic uses only one lift of the pendulum here:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf
formula for input Energy Ep = mgh is correct!

3.
Quote
"Then it will continue swinging in
vain, one hour or more. This means that the pendulum has spent around half
of its potential energy on moving the lever arm and the other half as friction
loses while swinging in vain. This ratio could be even worse, depending on
the oscillator."

I have seen live apparatus used by Bebic:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf
I think it has been optimized to reduce loses in potential energy of the pendulum. So it is capable to move lever arm longer than other apparatuses. But anyway we can subtract loses by the formula Ep=m*g*(h1-h2).
However all this is not very relevant to for the scenario described in Bebic's paper ("Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring")
He has no problem with input measurement (Ep=mgh) there!!!

4.
Quote
Using a formula for potential energy would be the same as measuring the efficiency of an engine before it reached its
working temperature.

a) I think that formula for potential Energy is universal and as shown in item 1. can be used in many measurement scenarios including some when aparatus has reached "working temperature"

b) If I remember well, Milkovic claimed that extracting the work at lever arm side do not impact the oscillation of the pendulum! So why do we need "working mode"? If you claim that you can do whatever you like at lever arm side and that this do not impact the pendulum side and that machine is overunity why have you been bothered with Ep=m*g*h? You can input Ep=m*g*h and extract 22 or (12) times more energy at lever arm side with no impact on pendulum side!!!
 
c) If Milkovic, Bebic, or somebody else publish the measurements of this scenario:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf
using formula Ep=m*g*h for measuring input energy and some Generator or lifter etc... for measuring output energy, and if this measuring do not show overunity then I think it would maybe be "proof" that Extracting the Work (Energy) at lever arm side actually impact the pendulum swing!
And if extracting the work at lever arm side impact the pendulum energy than we maybe have the proof of the Energy Conservation Law in affect!
IF previous deduction is correct then it seems to me that somebody is trying to hide that eventual fact!

d) I think that any attempt not to do or show all measurements (including ones with Ep=m*g*h)
has nothing to do with science but only with some (in my opinion) marketing...
Serious scientific people do all measurements in all scenarios and publish all results!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on November 06, 2008, 02:01:58 PM
I think that instead Ep= m*g*h we will have Ep=m*g*dh (dh=height differential) which is the same formula.
BTW you need here precise strokes to the pendulum + very accurate (slow motion mode) camera with visual scale measuring system + error of the measurement as approximation of the last pendulum swing angle recorded by the camera in slow motion mode...

Or (maybe) even simpler and more easy to measure:
1. When pendulum fulcrum reach starting point (= maximum height) (and lever arm weight is in contact with the base so it has minimum heigth h=0)
and
2. when pendulum weight reach appropriate angle-amplitude
then just:
3. Grab the pendulum weight with hand and
4. lift it for some height: dh (or h) (dE= m*g*dh)
5. repeat this energy input when necessary
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 14, 2008, 07:39:22 PM
Can anyone explain me how we will calculate the output energy of generator in case of using E=mgdh for input energy??? If I attach simple wattmeter it cannot show me precise output energy cause volts and amperes will vary (decrease) during the work of oscillator.

Since we read above that pendulum amplitude will decrease during the time - it means the lever movement will decrease too.
Does anyone know any measuring device that can calculate output power graph where volts and amperes vary? We will have the output result as an output graph and I suppose we need some clever software to calculate output energy from this graph in the unit of time e.g. 10 secons or 1 minute.

We need constant oscillation of pendulum to precisely measure the output energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on November 14, 2008, 09:09:13 PM
The very best way that I can think of, without a fancy and expensive DSO, is to run your output current through a resistor immersed in, say, water, and then look at the temperature change in the water. The water acts as an "integrator" that stores and sums the incremental Joule heating caused by the volt-amps from the source flowing thru the resistance, however much they vary over time.
There is some math involved and things have to be done precisely, but in principle it is something that the home experimenter should be able to do fairly accurately.

Using this technique (which is basically Joule's method) you don't even need to convert the output to electricity first. With a suitable mechanical arrangement, the water can be stirred directly by the mechanical oscillator's output and the heating measured.
In theory, anyway.

Another way to do it, the old timer's way, is to display the curren t( ie voltage drop across a known resistence) and voltage waveforms on an ordinary scope, then trace the waveforms on tracing paper, cut out the appropriate segments and weigh them on an accurate scale. This process is equivalent to integration. Some math magic, and voila!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on November 21, 2008, 09:36:27 PM
apparently someone must intervene here, because this malkovich pump is being analyzed in completely the wrong way......

the energy of the pendulum is well known, and most seem to grasp the understanding of this.

BUT - the force acting on the lever arm is causing a whole lot of unnecessary confusion.
allow me to clear this up::::

Force (downward) causes the action of the lever.  <-- this is the force we must calculate.
the 'reset' (upward) is caused by the other end of the lever arm being heavier, and does not affect the energy value of the pendulum.

The equation that gives you the downward power of each swing is the equation for Tension (Force) on the rod, for a duration of T ( where T is the duration of time it takes the pendulum to pass 1 radian at maximum velocity @ bottom dead center) 
Tension is often overlooked, for the simple fact that most pendulums are constructed on a rigid fulcrum, and Tension normally has no effective value.
Tension is represented by:     Tens =  [ mv^2 / r ] + m g (3 cos {} - 2)
     Where:  m = mass
                 v = velocity
                 r = rod length (or radius)
                 g = gravity
           and {} = 0 @ bottom dead center

The tangential force on the pendulum is effectively 0 @ bottom dead center and can be ignored.
   This is due to the angle from verticle being itsef 0.

  Thus:  E =  (T * Tension)
         where E is the energy of each lever action.
                   T = duration for pendulum to pass 1 radian @ max velocity

example:
if you raise a given pendulum and let it swing , and it oscillates 100 swings,
   then:  E(average) =  MGH/100
   where E =  energy of each lever action
     MGH is that of the original pendulum bob when raised to its starting position.
In practice, E is max on the first swing, and decreases slightly with each swing, and eventually ends up at 0 when the pendulum stops.
 This is observed when the pumps are used by the decrease in water-flow*pressure as the pendulum slows down.


This extracted energy does not affect the swinging of the pendulum, but is rather a derrivitive thereof.
it is essentially re-obtaining the energy from the natural decelleration of the pendulum in a unique way.
The total energy value is = to that obtained by an identicle impact hammer.
This device is not "overunity". it's "overconvenient", at least for the purposes for which it is used.
It is quite possibly the most efficient method of energy transfer we have to date.

I hope this clears everything up. if anyone needs further explanation, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Talmin on December 10, 2008, 04:39:06 PM
"Mechanical Fission: Two-stage mechanical oscillators should be set in accordance with geometry progression system, by which mechanical chain reaction could be achieved: 1<2<4<8< oscillators...
This could be the best way to confirm the overunity effect and accomplish replacement for nuclear fission."

hmm interesting thinking - mechanical fission!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 18, 2008, 10:52:41 AM
To all,

I have just read this paper and I believe it deserves to be shared with others.
We have here one very good described experimental work on Milkovic's two-stage oscillator by Jovan Marjanovic where he reports on his replication work and attempt to close the loop…

I am very grateful for this excellent paper – it will be very useful for all experimenters. It’s better you first read it.

Jovan Marjanovic – Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions in the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 18, 2008, 11:41:19 AM

Jovan Marjanovic – Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions in the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf


this is the wrong way to loop the  Two-Stage Oscillator !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on December 19, 2008, 03:30:25 PM
this is the wrong way to loop the  Two-Stage Oscillator !
...then tell us what the right way is.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on December 20, 2008, 05:49:17 AM
Can anyone explain me how we will calculate the output energy of generator in case of using E=mgdh for input energy??? If I attach simple wattmeter it cannot show me precise output energy cause volts and amperes will vary (decrease) during the work of oscillator.

If you have all that, (I believe) you have all tools that you need for complete system analysis!
Please do not be fooled by some (you know who) "overunitists" claims that you need "this and that" or that it is "too complicated". I believe its easy if you are really honest person!

1. For Output energy measurement I think you could use:
- your "wattmeter" +
- good timer (or watch) +
- simple video camera (that clearly captures: time + "wattmeter" data + oscillator) + (*)

If you have previous and publish good made video (which Milkovics "team" newer do!) on youtube, other people could calculate(!!!) and they (or you) would also need:
(*)
- pencil +
- paper with precise (millimeter) grid (to draw "volts and amperes" or Electric Power graph as a function of time) +
- Few formulas from Physics (dA=dE= P*dt, A=E=Sum(or Integral) P*dt) - please correct me if I made mistake with this formulas...it was long ago when I have used them. But it is very easy to use them! Trivial! Every student knows them!

So after watching good made video and drawing Electric Power (P) Graph as function of time P(t), it is needed to Sum all Energy differentials (dE) (= Work differentials dA) = Power(P(t)) * Time differentials (dt). (or Sum(dA=dE= P*dt)).
So the final formula is E (=A) = Sum (or Integral) (P(t) * dt)

That Sum (or integral) is equal to physical area between Electric power graph line (P(t) or P) and time axis line (t).
So use precise (millimeter) grid on paper to approximate area that is consisted of many little squares (or columns of squares = polygons) that forms it! Its Easy! Students do this!
The units for this physical area calculation are: seconds (s = time from horizontal time axis line (t)) and Watts (W = (electric) power from vertical Power axis line (P)). A = E = P*t
And you made it! And we all made it!

2. For Input Energy measurement you need:

- good timer (or watch) +
- simple video camera +
- felt tip (to make a visible dot at pendulum mass center) +
- Paper with precise grid (behind pendulum so you could measure heights recorded by video camera)

And please publish intelligently made videos (and or measurements) on youtube...

PS: I believe that (if one know physics), the most simple experiment that is needed is a single pendulum swing recorded with all necessary measurements data by video camera. Ofcourse other experiments could be also usefull like: single Energy input scenario (is enough I think...) or more (repeated) energy inputs scenario (which is same as previous but repeated many times)...
Personally I do not believe Milkovic. As to my knowledge he is a historian and not a physicist so I believe he do not know physics! I also do not know physics but at least I have past Theoretical Mechanics and Some Electric Engineering exams in College.
And Real Scientists do all measurements and publish all measured data! But people who do marketing publish only data that serves they private purpose!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on December 20, 2008, 01:45:55 PM
@astroshima: You make too much good sense. You had better be careful, you will be placed in the "Evil Skeptic" category and be accused of impeding progress in this important area of research that might be the Answer that will free us from the Tyranny of Oil!!

The reason what you have suggested isn't being done, or shown, is very clear.

It is because your suggested method will not indicate overunity performance...therefore it must be wrong.

Because Milkovic has already proven that his device is overunity. Don't you recall the hand-pumped flashlight demo? What could possibly be better proof than that??

Why, soon we will all be driving around in Milkovic-oscillator powered cars, our cellphones will be powered by tiny 12x pendulum stacks, air travel will be revolutionized...

Now, if only we could get rid of the noise...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: astroshima on December 20, 2008, 05:37:43 PM
Just want again to illustrate how useful are measurements so I will borrow this quote for that purpose:

... Milkovic has already proven that his device is overunity. Don't you recall the hand-pumped flashlight demo? What could possibly be better proof than that??

That same apparatus and experiment could be used with measurements!
Video camera could capture whole experiment (one or several times repeated).

1. For output Energy measurement and calculation:
Wattmeter could measure output power on dynamo lamp(s).

2. For Input Energy measurement and calculation:
a) We need Paper with Ruler Grid behind pendulum for measuring pendulum heights (h or dh - depending on experiment and input energy calculation method: E=m*g*(h1-h2) or dE = m*g*dh).
b) When pendulum Fulcrum reach starting point (or maximum height) then Pendulum mass should be stroked or lifted in other direction - to go up instead of down so we could measure dh (height) before pendulum lose that input energy...
c)However if we do just one pendulum lift scenario and record it with camera (I believe) we could calculate that dh with formula dh = h1 - h2 so we do not need repeated pendulum strokes or lifting.

By the way (one digression):
1. As Physics learns us, Force integral formula used for dynamometer (with fish scale) is the same as potential energy formula. (A = E = Sum(F*ds) = Sum((m*a)*ds) = Sum((m*g)*dh) = m*g*h). So I think that all talk, that we can not use second one, because it is "wrong" one, and, that we have to use the first one, because it is "good" one, has nothing to do with physics because its the same formula. All useful input work (when pendulum fulcrum reach starting point) is done against gravity force (so we have only vertical components of path (s) and acceleration (a) vectors and that are: g and h). And since experimenter (J. Bebic) do not draw Forces Schema or sets System Equations, before dynamometer measurement, he (and we) can not see what is he measuring. Not to mention that without good made video, experiment is practically useless to other people .
2. One also need to lift or stroke pendulum weight at the same moment as it would do with dynamometer pulling. So I believe that we have practically the same experiment...See also 2. b) remark here. (from: "For Input Energy measurement and calculation")
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on December 20, 2008, 06:07:37 PM
Ermm...yes.

I realize my sarcasm can be rather subtle at times. Just to be clear, I find the Milkovic system to be an elaborate pendulum energy storage system, with possible chaotic performance at times :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKXVl-W6HGc&feature=related

There is no way that it is "overunity", and in fact it really isn't even a very efficient way to store energy. It may at times magnify force or power, but so what, so does a flywheel, and it cannot continue to do so without corresponding energy input, plus a little more to overcome losses.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 20, 2008, 07:30:06 PM
@ TK

You are right about the system being chaotic. When you look at the pendulum side of the system say from the balance beam fulcrum onwards you will notice that you have in effect a double pendulum. The chaotic movement of a double pendulum is well known.

The fact that the balance beam part has only limited movement only dampens the chaos effect, but does not eliminate it. That is why you cannot fit a crankshaft to the device because the strokes are uneven.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: truth on December 21, 2008, 03:04:10 AM
 ::)

If the weight of the pendulum(W) must be lifted to a start height(H), then the combined force of the stokes output by the business end of the lever should be enough to lift a weight to that same height(WH).

Any energy REQUIRED to SUSTAIN the pendulum swing must be output by the lever PRIOR to that added pendulum lift.

Ratchet a 1:1 pulley with equal weight and measure height.

I hate that it is all really that SIMPLE.
 ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: SteinerP on December 28, 2008, 05:26:32 PM
::)

If the weight of the pendulum(W) must be lifted to a start height(H), then the combined force of the stokes output by the business end of the lever should be enough to lift a weight to that same height(WH).

Any energy REQUIRED to SUSTAIN the pendulum swing must be output by the lever PRIOR to that added pendulum lift.

Ratchet a 1:1 pulley with equal weight and measure height.

I hate that it is all really that SIMPLE.
 ;D



The Question of Understanding and Patience

It is clear that there are new mechanical effects that are beyond common conceptions: you can see videos, opinions and expert analyses www.veljkomilkovic.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com).
Nevertheless, all of this has to be worked on further to show the overunity effect more clearly.
There is a need for patient analyses beside the fact that the usability is obvious, both in theory and practice.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on December 29, 2008, 12:57:33 AM
What is clear, is that SteinerP and the rest of the crew at veljkomilkovic.com have decided, based on theory, that their device is overunity, and will not do any appropriate control experiments to determine whether it really is or not.

Of course it isn't, and the theory is severely flawed.

There are several ways that one may test a device like this, in an appropriate manner. For example, the business end could work a piston air compressor and the compressed air could be used to power a pump. Or another milkovic pendulum. Or anything. The losses in compressed air systems are well-understood and the overall energy throughput could be accurately calculated.

But experiments like this, which would show that the pendulum is under-unity, obviously are flawed--because the system is already known to be OU and if your experiment doesn't show this, the experiment is flawed.

I kid you not--this is the way these people will "reason" about their experimentation and their device.

If the usability is obvious, please give a single design for a device that would work better, powered by a milkovic pendulum. Other than a chaotic pendulum demonstrator, perhaps!

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 07, 2009, 08:27:12 PM
Milkovic + Bedini test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeX_Tst2tU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: SteinerP on January 17, 2009, 07:41:48 PM
What is clear, is that SteinerP and the rest of the crew at veljkomilkovic.com have decided, based on theory, that their device is overunity, and will not do any appropriate control experiments to determine whether it really is or not.

Of course it isn't, and the theory is severely flawed.

There are several ways that one may test a device like this, in an appropriate manner. For example, the business end could work a piston air compressor and the compressed air could be used to power a pump. Or another milkovic pendulum. Or anything. The losses in compressed air systems are well-understood and the overall energy throughput could be accurately calculated.

But experiments like this, which would show that the pendulum is under-unity, obviously are flawed--because the system is already known to be OU and if your experiment doesn't show this, the experiment is flawed.

I kid you not--this is the way these people will "reason" about their experimentation and their device.

If the usability is obvious, please give a single design for a device that would work better, powered by a milkovic pendulum. Other than a chaotic pendulum demonstrator, perhaps!



"...the rest of the crew at veljkomilkovic.com"
"...this is the way these people will "reason" about their experimentation and their device"

Instead of this kind of language (which obviously can augment the numbers of posts and receive a rank of hero member in quantity over quality), could you please focus solely on what is the topic instead of addressing people that you do not know and cannot by any means label as somebody's crew. Your expertise would than be more than appreciated and be given a proper attention, satisfying your obvious need for it.

Best regards


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on January 19, 2009, 06:16:46 PM
"...the rest of the crew at veljkomilkovic.com"
"...this is the way these people will "reason" about their experimentation and their device"

Instead of this kind of language (which obviously can augment the numbers of posts and receive a rank of hero member in quantity over quality), could you please focus solely on what is the topic instead of addressing people that you do not know and cannot by any means label as somebody's crew. Your expertise would than be more than appreciated and be given a proper attention, satisfying your obvious need for it.

Best regards




OK, you object to my characterization of the honored research team at Milkovic Laboratories as
"the crew" and as "those people".
And you ask me to stay on topic. Fine.
When I have suggested proper control experiments or ways to effectively utilize the output of the Milkovic system, I have been ignored. I figured this was because the scientists (and I do use that term advisedly) were dodging the issues, since these experiments and methods would ALMOST CERTAINLY (and I include the "almost" out of sheer politeness) reveal unequivocally that the system is far, far from OU and is in fact rather inefficient as an energy storage system.
So, instead of publishing pdf reports of "proof" experiments, let's see the proper performance of a "disproof" experiment, and when that experiment FAILS, let's start talking about staying on topic, again.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on January 19, 2009, 06:19:53 PM
"...the rest of the crew at veljkomilkovic.com"
"...this is the way these people will "reason" about their experimentation and their device"

Instead of this kind of language (which obviously can augment the numbers of posts and receive a rank of hero member in quantity over quality), could you please focus solely on what is the topic instead of addressing people that you do not know and cannot by any means label as somebody's crew. Your expertise would than be more than appreciated and be given a proper attention, satisfying your obvious need for it.

Best regards




And, Steiner, newbie, if you would care to look at my posts, you might actually learn something about the content of postings that go into making a poster's ratings what they are. Many people on this forum troll, criticise and sling mud without any evidence, good ideas, or contributions of their own. Perhaps I do not fall into this category.
Into which category will you fall, when you have accumulated enough posts to acquire some credibility? I suppose that is up to you.
You have not, however, gotten off to a good start.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 19, 2009, 07:28:45 PM
Many people on this forum troll, criticise and sling mud without any evidence...
...and that sums up your contribution to three separate threads on this site that I have
noticed. Probably a dozen more that I have not.

If you doubt the value of the "12 times more..." ideas, then try one of the water pumps.

Paul.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on January 19, 2009, 08:01:50 PM
...and that sums up your contribution to three separate threads on this site that I have
noticed. Probably a dozen more that I have not.

If you doubt the value of the "12 times more..." ideas, then try one of the water pumps.

Paul.

I have seen the water pumps.  Not impressive.  Look, this entire contraption is just a see-saw with a pendulum on one end of it?  How in the world do you get overunity out of that?  You can't, and the fact that there are zero self-propelling examples of the Milkovic pendulum speaks pretty loudly.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on January 19, 2009, 08:11:45 PM
...and that sums up your contribution to three separate threads on this site that I have
noticed. Probably a dozen more that I have not.

If you doubt the value of the "12 times more..." ideas, then try one of the water pumps.

Paul.

Well I don't really understand why people do still continue to argue on whether or not this machine works when it is so simple.
People should instead try to build it with spare parts and junk that they got around, and see that it will still do much more than what a simple machine could do (which is to convert distance into force).

It does not directly use the rotation energy which we store in the moving pendulum, instead it uses the centripetal force created by its rotation. The loss of momentum in the pendulum is a result only of the pendulums displacement, and not effected by how much force you allow it to transfer to the other side. This is why a heavy load should be used, because it will increase the pendulums efficiency.

If any of you here have seen Tommey Lee Reed's videos before his account was suspended, that very efficient linear to angular ratched system could have been great if combined with this machine. Hope I get some time soon to try it out :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 20, 2009, 12:55:44 AM
Well I don't really understand why people do still continue to argue on whether or not this machine works when it is so simple....
Its not that simple; quite a few tuning and probably resonance issues
Paul.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on January 20, 2009, 06:36:14 AM
Its not that simple; quite a few tuning and probably resonance issues
Paul.


Well yes. The timing is really the hard part, at least that's my view.

But the actual mechanics involved is really as simple as one could have wished for.

Btw, for any of you have built this thing, is it possible to use wood as the main hinge, or would that maybe be to weak?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: truth on January 20, 2009, 11:43:40 AM
 8)
How many of you have ever operated an overhead crane?
In order to stop the thing you are lifting from swinging around you move the point of lift directly over the location the item is swing to. That means you change the location of the axis of the swinging load. The change in the location of this device also changes the momentum of the swing with random either positive or negative results.

One swing may have more centripetal force while the next may have less.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 20, 2009, 02:55:16 PM
Well yes. The timing is really the hard part, at least that's my view.

But the actual mechanics involved is really as simple as one could have wished for.

Btw, for any of you have built this thing, is it possible to use wood as the main hinge, or would that maybe be to weak?
Good quality wood or plywood is fine for the basic device, but the actual bearing should be steel. Try a replacement
router bearing:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-CMT-CMT-Router-Cutter-Bearings-20906.htm
or the pedal from a scrapped bicycle.
Paul.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on January 20, 2009, 07:41:51 PM
Yes, I doubt the "12 times overunity" value, and I doubt the water pumps. However, as I have suggested before, the geometry of the machine would EASILY allow the output end to be hooked up to bicycle-style cylinder-piston air compression pumps, and the compressed air thus produced could be stored. And, the input end of the Milkovic device could EASILY be actuated by a compressed-air pneumatic cylinder. AND, the losses and energy balances in pneumatic systems are WELL-UNDERSTOOD. So a team of competent engineers and researchers should be able, in short order, to construct and perform experiments using this pneumatic system, to close the loop and have the thing run itself, since it is SO MUCH overunity, and losses in the pneumatic system would only be on the order of a few tens of percent.

Now, I will sit back and wait for the reports of this carefully done experiment, which could reasonably either falsify or support the Milkovic hypothesis.

I wager, however, that for one reason or another, this simple and to my mind conclusive experiment will NOT be performed--because I believe that the smart engineers and scientists on the Milkovic team know exactly how it would come out.

PROVE ME WRONG.
Please.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: SteinerP on January 21, 2009, 02:00:33 PM
And, Steiner, newbie, if you would care to look at my posts, you might actually learn something about the content of postings that go into making a poster's ratings what they are. Many people on this forum troll, criticise and sling mud without any evidence, good ideas, or contributions of their own. Perhaps I do not fall into this category.
Into which category will you fall, when you have accumulated enough posts to acquire some credibility? I suppose that is up to you.
You have not, however, gotten off to a good start.


If you really had understood the meaning of my post, you would have reacted at least positively.
Instead, you continue with the way of communication which was the only reason for my addressing you.
I am in no way interested in making any kind of success in polemics making ego stronger, being in front of the screen putting people in categories and knowing nothing about them.
Obviously it makes you feeling good more than it does with really objective parts of your texts where one could think it is a person that strive to better understanding of issues he/she writes about. This contrast is what caught my eye. That is all, and there is neither any kind of start nor continuation of mastering the forum.

Best regards
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on January 21, 2009, 04:37:19 PM

If you really had understood the meaning of my post, you would have reacted at least positively.
Instead, you continue with the way of communication which was the only reason for my addressing you.
I am in no way interested in making any kind of success in polemics making ego stronger, being in front of the screen putting people in categories and knowing nothing about them.
Obviously it makes you feeling good more than it does with really objective parts of your texts where one could think it is a person that strive to better understanding of issues he/she writes about. This contrast is what caught my eye. That is all, and there is neither any kind of start nor continuation of mastering the forum.

Best regards


As you can see from the post immediately above, I have proposed (and did so several times earlier) a simple and easy experiment that would conveniently test the hypothesis:
"The Milkovic oscillator described here will produce 12 times more power out, on a continuous bases, than it receives as input."
Now, whether you want to argue about communicative style or not, the fact remains: an experiment has been proposed which could conceivably falsify the Milkovic hypothesis.
Now, the onus is on the claimants to properly perform such an experiment. The experiment I have proposed is not problematic at all; any competent mechanic could design and implement the system with off-the-shelf components in a short time.
If the Milkovic system is even near a COP of 1, this experiment will show it. If the system really has 12x OU, it will easily run itself through my pneumatic pumps, accumulators and actuators.

So, attack my style if you like, I really don't mind. But the issue is still there, and I have proposed a method to resolve it. Why not try to build something, instead of getting all huffy because of a turn of phrase?
I know the answer: It is because it is far easier to complain and attack a person's words, than to address the ideas behind them.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: SteinerP on January 23, 2009, 06:43:28 AM
As you can see from the post immediately above, I have proposed (and did so several times earlier) a simple and easy experiment that would conveniently test the hypothesis:
"The Milkovic oscillator described here will produce 12 times more power out, on a continuous bases, than it receives as input."
Now, whether you want to argue about communicative style or not, the fact remains: an experiment has been proposed which could conceivably falsify the Milkovic hypothesis.
Now, the onus is on the claimants to properly perform such an experiment. The experiment I have proposed is not problematic at all; any competent mechanic could design and implement the system with off-the-shelf components in a short time.
If the Milkovic system is even near a COP of 1, this experiment will show it. If the system really has 12x OU, it will easily run itself through my pneumatic pumps, accumulators and actuators.

So, attack my style if you like, I really don't mind. But the issue is still there, and I have proposed a method to resolve it. Why not try to build something, instead of getting all huffy because of a turn of phrase?
I know the answer: It is because it is far easier to complain and attack a person's words, than to address the ideas behind them.

to argue about communicative style
attack my style if you like, I really don't mind

Yes, even if this site has predominantly to do with technical aspects, it would lead all of its participants to the unwanted result of becoming machines itself if there is not an approach of mutual respect. No matter how much irony or even sarcasm one might use, there is an easy way for anyone to feel if it is addressing a problem (and I agree sometimes a person could and should be addressed as a problem itself, but even then there should be no triumphant satisfaction in doing it) or a person (in most cases it is highly inappropriate to do so).
I entered this forum not to derogate or blindly support anyone, but to see determination, strength and character of people that use their time and effort to make this world cleaner, healthier and more humane. Not much as a technical expert, but a person who is interested in issues this forum deals with from the above mentioned aspects. I am more than convinced that you share my opinion about the civilized, cultivated and refined communication with either friends or foes, and it comes from my respect of your texts - why else would I spend my time and energy to this correspondence.
As for the insinuations of being somebody's crew, just from a totally impartial post that had nothing to do with mere pro et contra style, I couldn't agree more with your conclusion:
It is because it is far easier to complain and attack a person's words, than to address the ideas behind them.

Having this said, I would add that maybe I am more agile critic of Mr. Milkovic work than many of his overt opponents. It is about the meaning and use of criticism that differs positive and negative approach, the former being far more productive and not less painful.

As for your suggestions and the overall tone that you use when speaking about technical matters, I find it very constructive and it is one of the reasons of what I have already said about this correspondence being worth time and energy spent on.

Best regards
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on January 23, 2009, 03:37:34 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 29, 2009, 05:57:43 PM
Automatic pendulum driver system for Milkovic oscillator!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI_ooL8hcrE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on January 29, 2009, 08:28:56 PM
Automatic pendulum driver system for Milkovic oscillator!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI_ooL8hcrE

very nice system
we are waiting for data ( positive or negative one )
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on January 29, 2009, 08:54:26 PM
Automatic pendulum driver system for Milkovic oscillator!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI_ooL8hcrE

Interesting device there on youtube. Are you part of that program Merg?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on January 30, 2009, 12:08:33 AM
Alan B. brought this thread to my attention via a phone call regarding the above 'youtube' link. I told him that it looked like 'Ron P's earlier version which has been considerably updated. 

I have not by any means read all that has been posted here, so bear with me as what I am about to say may have already been said.

There seems to be a lot of debate regarding the claimed 12:1 output of this machine and how to prove or disprove said claim. So I have a suggestion that may or may not have already been tried.

Attach a secondary pivoting lever with adjustable fulcrum to the output side of the machine. Place the fulcrum of this secondary lever at various distance from the pivot point. If a 1:12 ratio can be achieved then the output of the secondary lever should offer 12 times the distance of the working stroke. Sufficient travel to do something with. Test weights could be added at designated points on said lever.

Or with the amplified stroke one may attempt adding a connecting rod to achieve a rotating flywheel.
Picture an early 'walking beam steam engine' for an example.  The connecting rod would have to be slotted with compression springs to allow for the random effect created by the machines output, once turning, the flywheel should dampen the effect and in turn feed back a small portion of this dampening to help resonate the machine.

For those who have actually built or have experience with such a machine, I look forward to  your input on my suggestion.

Ralph   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 01, 2009, 05:19:37 AM
Just found on a forum also considering Veljko Milkovic's oscillator
Source:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2374&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30


While doing some mail box cleaning this post popped up, it was written by a contact of mine who is known as "the builder" on the Milkovic forum. It does not necessarily reflect my personal views on the subject.

Quote:
Ralph, you were doing pretty good!

But in all these types of discussions it is much like trying to explain color to a blind man.
Then of course my favorite,,," you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think"

You are at a one down disadvantage in that you don't have hands on experience with this. Even I will admit to you that after two years
I don't have the answer. But I will keep on until I do.

So what are most people missing?

The pendulum is an old device, as close to a pm machine as we can get. It has always been build with a rigid structure, to prevent any motion
at the pivot point. It was Veljko that saw that if you could loosen off the pivot point, it will flop up and down and in looking at this movement, understand the theory of the energy released at this point.

As the pendulum falls through the 6:00 position the pivot has to restrain the fall. The whole gravity addition must be contained and diverted
into uphill swing, right? Then at the end of this swing the pendulum bob actually starts to lose weight. Just do the math or experiment...
at about a 120° swing the bob will weigh half it's weight... and at the bottom of the swing it will weigh half as much again.

This is the "force" then, that is on the axle/pivot point. No one before Veljko had ever tried to harvest this "potential energy" in this manner.

If, as Veljiko has done, we fasten the pivot point to a secondary arm and allow this arm to translate this previously hidden energy then the
possibility to extract and utilize this "force" is a possibility. In a grandfather clock the pendulum motion is a very modest 6 to 10° say, but to
generate the most "force" we try for from 120° to 180° of swing. The force is multiplied correspondingly but the DRIVING force is also
increased. Then too as I pointed out in the "botafumeiro" example the motion of the combined pendulum and secondary arm is counter-
productive, in that we are actually dropping the pendulum when to sustain the pendulums motion we should be raising it.

So if we have a 20 Kg pendulum swinging say 120° we have a force of 20Kg's at the pivot point that is relatively cost free, over a short distance.

This is a machine that becomes more practical as the size is scaled up. It might never be proven at small scale.

It will never be proven with bike parts, the lost motion of the ratchet clutch defeats it. One must use a zero backlash indexing clutch.

The motion of the secondary arm is slow and limited, electrical generation is nonexistent at this speed, yet to speed the "force" up 100
times diminishes the torque by 100 times....the end result, friction wins.

But coupled with an invention as postulated by Felix Wüth, such as the "Living Energy" machine....?

Another possibility is the Wilt device...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMb-mab7ad4

I hope I have shed a small ray of light?

Be of good cheer,

(Author name deleted)

PS: you have my permission to post parts, or all of this...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on February 01, 2009, 06:08:41 AM
Merg,

Yup! one of my posts on Besslerwheel.com, and the whole thing should be in a quote box. But tha'ts OK as the point is made.

A number of people have and are involved with this Milkovic contraption and as stated elswhere none have been able to make a self-sustainer out of the alleged 12 X power gain????

From what I understand using a stationary suspended pendulum the best one can expect is 3 X the static weight,  but here again the amount of dynamic input is not measured. I would think that the moving pivot would dampen this making it less not more.

My above post regarding the secondary lever was simply throwing a concept out to see what kind of response and discussion it would bring.  No much response was there!  ;)

Ralph   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 25, 2009, 06:44:17 PM
I think this recommendation for all those who are making the replicas haven't been posted earlier:

"Preposition for decreasing of the friction:
Two-stage mechanical oscillator or some other gadget lay in direction east-west in order to decrease axial friction on bearings caused by Coriolis force."

I was wondering why this was so simple, but in the same time hard to work with it - interesting thought...
"To someone it is a problem if the idea was simple, but coming to the simple solution is the hardest and there are the most reasons for that."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 25, 2009, 06:46:17 PM
"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on February 25, 2009, 07:59:46 PM
Edit; DP
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 26, 2009, 08:11:34 AM
Merg,
. . .

My above post regarding the secondary lever was simply throwing a concept out to see what kind of response and discussion it would bring.  No much response was there!  ;)

Ralph   

Quote
rlortie said:  While doing some mail box cleaning this post popped up, it was written by a contact of mine who is known as "the builder" on the Milkovic forum. It does not necessarily reflect my personal views on the subject.


Quote
The Builder said:  If, as Veljiko has done, we fasten the pivot point to a secondary arm and allow this arm to translate this previously hidden energy then the
possibility to extract and utilize this "force" is a possibility.


Good idea the builder had.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 26, 2009, 08:21:16 AM
I don't know if anyone has built a model to measure the difference between the energy of the bob swinging and the energy of the arm lifting up and down.  I used wm2d to see the difference in the rotational kinetic energy of the two.

Here's the results.  It does appear to me there's adequate energy in the arm moving up and down to cause the pendulum to swing forever.

I might have to launch the black helicopters.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 26, 2009, 09:41:39 AM
Some ideas from Hans @ Kelly.net:

http://www.keelytech.com/news/milkovic.html

Hello Hans,

I was wondering if you could tell me where the patent you got this graphic from is.


Bessler007

edit:

Interesting site with double pendulums:

http://www.myphysicslab.com/dbl_pendulum.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on February 26, 2009, 10:24:37 AM
Merg,

Yup! one of my posts on Besslerwheel.com, and the whole thing should be in a quote box. But tha'ts OK as the point is made.

A number of people have and are involved with this Milkovic contraption and as stated elswhere none have been able to make a self-sustainer out of the alleged 12 X power gain????

From what I understand using a stationary suspended pendulum the best one can expect is 3 X the static weight,  but here again the amount of dynamic input is not measured. I would think that the moving pivot would dampen this making it less not more.

My above post regarding the secondary lever was simply throwing a concept out to see what kind of response and discussion it would bring.  No much response was there!  ;)

Ralph   

rlortie, Yes we can see this. The more you allow the pivot of the pendulum to move, then more of the stored energy will be lost.
There is one simple trick to take the efficiency or COP of this thing from maybe 3 or 4 to high up into 100! And that is to restrict the pivot from moving almost at all, by increasing the resistance it meets in the load (a heavy lead weight perhaps or adjusting the leverage on the hinge).

But then you will need a bigger weight on the pendulum side, but still the efficiency will be much higher. So easily put, going big with this machine will increase its performance many times. Hope some of you guys can soon show up with some positive results on this.
As for me I am going to make a modification to this, by making it fully rotational :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 26, 2009, 05:19:55 PM
Some ideas from Hans @ Kelly.net:

http://www.keelytech.com/news/milkovic.html

Hello Hans,

I was wondering if you could tell me where the patent you got this graphic from is.


Did you think on this patent?
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Patent17.jpg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on February 26, 2009, 05:34:25 PM
Hans wrote on Keelynet:


Quote
From bitter experience in almost 50 years as an engineer I am painfully aware how easy it is to overlook the obvious, especially when one is working with a device that almost does the job and "needs only a few adjustments".

Either I am going cross-eyed or the linkage on the above posted 'Patent.jpg  is backwards! The pulse lever will be raising when to pulse it must be dropping.

Anyone wish to correct me?

Ralph
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 26, 2009, 08:06:35 PM
Quote
The timing Hans has seems to make sense.

I'm sorry, I was looking at the wrong drawing.

The swing of the pendulum is fairly constant in the results of the simulation I posted.  The blue line on the first graph is the rotational kinetic energy of the heavy lever.  The red line on that graph is the energy of the heavy lever after the energy of the pendulum is subtracted from it.

The area under the red curve represents the excess energy of the system after the energy of the pendulum is supplied; this is with 100% efficiency and is rotational.  That's an ideal no one can ever achieve yet none the less there's substantial net energy in this amplification.

This is without a doubt the most significant gravity powered device I've ever seen published.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 26, 2009, 08:14:29 PM
Thank you Merg; that answered my question.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 27, 2009, 07:12:52 AM
I was looking at a variation of this mechanical oscillator with wm2d to see what the factor of rotational energy of the pendulum was to that of the heavy lever arm and it does seem peak at 15x.

That isn't the most significant thing I noticed.  A mere 2645 pound heavy lever peaks at a surplus of 365 kWh in a little over 4.5 seconds.  It's not a constant energy but it sure is extreme.




Bessler007
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on February 27, 2009, 07:41:11 AM
I was looking at a variation of this mechanical oscillator with wm2d to see what the factor of rotational energy of the pendulum was to that of the heavy lever arm and it does seem peak at 15x.

That isn't the most significant thing I noticed.  A mere 2645 pound heavy lever peaks at a surplus of 365 kWh in a little over 4.5 seconds.  It's not a constant energy but it sure is extreme.

Bessler007

Are you sure you are not just observing an illusion similar to chaotic pendulums?  For example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foZHjI8Lydo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foZHjI8Lydo)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 27, 2009, 09:03:42 AM
Hello utilitarian,

No.  This concept is the most significant application of gravity power I've ever seen.  Anyone interested in free energy should attempt to get their minds around this.

There are some interesting ideas about this mechanical amplifier.

It answers a question I was asked years ago.  I wish he were here to see the answer.  We could ride his suicide shift Indians with helmets equipped with an rf link and cruise the back roads talking about it.  Hell has no angels.

This is a significant idea on two levels.

I plan on elaborating in my blog.




Bessler007
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on February 27, 2009, 03:45:09 PM
Hello utilitarian,

No.  This concept is the most significant application of gravity power I've ever seen.  Anyone interested in free energy should attempt to get their minds around this.

There are some interesting ideas about this mechanical amplifier.

It answers a question I was asked years ago.  I wish he were here to see the answer.  We could ride his suicide shift Indians with helmets equipped with an rf link and cruise the back roads talking about it.  Hell has no angels.

This is a significant idea on two levels.

I plan on elaborating in my blog.

Bessler007

But if there is excess energy being generated, why does the device stop over time and not go on forever?

I do not see how the Milkovic device is meaningfully different from a chaos pendulum.  Google "chaos pendulum" on youtube and you will see many more examples.

I am not sure exactly how you derive your graph, but is it possible you assign too much energy to the falling weight because you do not account for the counterweight?  I mean, you cannot simply take the mass of the hammer and calculate the energy based on that, because it is not free-falling.  It is partially balanced on the other side, so it is only able to impart a fraction of it's mass in kinetic energy.  Pardon if I have not used the correct terminology, but you get what I am saying I hope.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 27, 2009, 05:37:14 PM
utilitarian,

I have to admit I've let results of wm2d get the best of me before. 

The blue line on the graph is the kinetic energy of the massive lever.  The red line is what is left of that energy (instant by instant) after the expense of the pendulum is paid for.  The simulation calculated 2000 times/second.

The area under the red curve represents the excess energy of the system.  You can see the energy alternates above and below a zero reference.  What that means is an equal amount of energy above zero is needed to offset that below to arrive at the accurate amount of surplus energy.

As of yet I don't see why the excess energy can't drive the double pendulum.

This double pendulum operates within a constrained range; the motion isn't chaotically running where ever it will.  That's a key difference.

There are other differences.

This is a very significant device.  It's been termed "the invention of a simple machine".  That's not true; Milkovic didn't invent the double pendulum.  However he did notice a fascinating quality they exhibit.  He deserves credit for that.  He found a needle in the haystack.



Bessler007
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on February 27, 2009, 08:28:47 PM
I read an article a few weeks ago on the Milkovitch device, that does not seemed to have been mentioned here. The article was on Free Energy News from Wikipedia. The gist of said article was that the most efficient time to feed energy to the pendulum, was at the end of its stroke, when the bob is weightless. This was done by moving the pendulums pivot horizontally. But I dont remember in which direction, although it was in the same plane that the pendulum swings. You could easily test this with a weight on a string. this could be the key to the whole problem.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 27, 2009, 10:43:20 PM
I read an article a few weeks ago on the Milkovitch device, that does not seemed to have been mentioned here. The article was on Free Energy News from Wikipedia. The gist of said article was that the most efficient time to feed energy to the pendulum, was at the end of its stroke, when the bob is weightless. This was done by moving the pendulums pivot horizontally. But I dont remember in which direction, although it was in the same plane that the pendulum swings. You could easily test this with a weight on a string. this could be the key to the whole problem.

Do you think on this article?
Jovan Marjanovic – Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions in the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 28, 2009, 02:56:14 AM


I am not sure exactly how you derive your graph, but is it possible you assign too much energy to the falling weight because you do not account for the counterweight?  I mean, you cannot simply take the mass of the hammer and calculate the energy based on that, because it is not free-falling.  It is partially balanced on the other side, so it is only able to impart a fraction of it's mass in kinetic energy.  Pardon if I have not used the correct terminology, but you get what I am saying I hope.


utilitarian,

I do understand what you're saying.  I totally neglected to look at that.  :)   opps.  It's a good thing I'm not a surgeon.  There'd be a lot of dead people out there.  I need to take a better look at this idea but I'm still persuaded it's an amazing use of a double pendulum.




Bessler007
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on February 28, 2009, 05:08:06 AM
utilitarian,

The patient survived.  I set up a model of a double pendulum eliminating the mass that would counter-balance.  It also isn't the sort Milkovic has published.  It's just a little different.

I used smaller masses looking for what gain there might be.  The one point I calculated was an amplification little over 15.

I think if the pendulum is driven, much higher gains can be accomplished.  I also think the energy of the hammer can be used to drive the pendulum in a controlled fashion forcing the hammer to amazing extremes.




Bessler007
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Elisha on March 01, 2009, 01:06:55 PM
There is a very effient way to convert a linear movement into a circular movement, the revetec.com trilobe crank.

With this crank we can recover the energy in the output if connected to an alternator.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on March 03, 2009, 04:19:52 AM
Hello Elisha,

That's a very neat cam arrangement.  I think an inductively coupled feedback to the pendulum would be the most efficient way to approach this.  No friction equates to higher efficiency.

I've been wearing this principle out in simulation.  This concept of mechanical energy amplification has got to be one of the most significant ideas I've ever come across in the area of gravity power generation.

The idea of mis-interpretation of results comparing input to output, I think, is a non issue in the simulation I just ran of another modification of the Milkovic double pendulum wrt a consideration of the amplification factor.  The factor can be computed at any moment in time along the curves.  The drastic difference between the level of the blue curve compared to the red one is visually evident.  Averaging the gains over the approximate 3.5 seconds this simulation ran would be some tedious math.  I just made copies of 2 points along the curves.

The large graph and the readings below the red curve are the same graph.  One is the numeric reading of the larger picture at the indicated moment in time.  The red line is the energy of the pendulum.  The blue is the heavy pendulum.  That's the case in both examples.  The inset graph titled "pendulum" is on a scale that's readable.

Although the title of the small numeric inset reads "12.5k frames/sec"  the simulation was ran at 10k frames/sec.  I didn't change the title of that graph.

This is a variation of Milkovic's double pendulum.  The underlying principle is very powerful in my opinion.  It's worth a serious study.




Bessler007

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 03, 2009, 04:36:39 AM
Some ideas from Hans @ Kelly.net:

http://www.keelytech.com/news/milkovic.html

Hello Hans,

I was wondering if you could tell me where the patent you got this graphic from is.


Bessler007

edit:

Interesting site with double pendulums:

http://www.myphysicslab.com/dbl_pendulum.html

I got this drawing from Milkovic's site quite some time ago. I simply cleaned it up and coloured it in to show it more clearly.

Of course it cannot work as drawn.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 03, 2009, 08:07:03 PM
To all

the latest info just received - it seems we should consider these video links again.

Absolute (Ultimate) Proof of Overunity

"Analyzing the two-stage oscillator replica videos published by Raymond Head (Video 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 and Video 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCkVmv4zizM) it can be concluded that a weight on the left side completely pass its weight to the ground because the wire is obviously loose. It can be easy seen on video 7 -  which leads to conclusion that because the movement of the weight upwards is the same as the movement of the hand pushing the pendulum, there is energy surplus in the oscillator, because the hand normally can not lift the weight up as easy as it can push the pendulum."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on March 04, 2009, 08:14:33 AM
To all

the latest info just received - it seems we should consider these video links again.

Absolute (Ultimate) Proof of Overunity

"Analyzing the two-stage oscillator replica videos published by Raymond Head (Video 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 and Video 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCkVmv4zizM) it can be concluded that a weight on the left side completely pass its weight to the ground because the wire is obviously loose. It can be easy seen on video 7 -  which leads to conclusion that because the movement of the weight upwards is the same as the movement of the hand pushing the pendulum, there is energy surplus in the oscillator, because the hand normally can not lift the weight up as easy as it can push the pendulum."

this is false  , this video proof nothing
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 08, 2009, 02:18:39 AM
this is false  , this video proof nothing

I'd like to see the better proof, if you can find such one, please share with us since we are all waiting for it.

_____

I don't know if this news is adequate to be posted here (maybe it can be created a new topic) but it is related in some parts to this discussion:
 
Jovan Marjanovic - The Case in Electro-Magnetism Where Newton's Third Law is Not Valid and Getting an Energy Surplus in an Electro Generator

With simple formulas in electromagnetics it can be proven that Third Newton's law is not valid in all cases for electrical charges. Easy proof that electrical generator with high voltage achieved by high RPM have energy surplus in comparison with another generator with low voltage and high current.

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_The_Case_in_Magnetisam_Where_Newton_Law_is_Not_Valid.pdf

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bessler007 on March 08, 2009, 06:14:06 AM
Thank you for your post, Merg.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mule on March 16, 2009, 02:41:41 PM
Hi everyone

It took me days to read this entire thread, and quite thrilling it was too!

I'm attaching my idea for closing the loop. I think that it will take some experimentation and tweaking, but if we could find the optimum ratio (ie size of monkey/caloric intake/output) we could probably run this thing on one banana per day  ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mule on March 16, 2009, 02:48:56 PM
On a more serious note: this concept fascinates me, and even if it's not OU, it's a great principle for which I'm sure there must be useful applications other than the water pump. I wish I had the time, the tools and the know-how to experiment with it. Thanks for everyone's time and input and experimentation, my head is really buzzing with the possibilties!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on March 16, 2009, 03:04:44 PM
Hi everyone

It took me days to read this entire thread, and quite thrilling it was too!

I'm attaching my idea for closing the loop. I think that it will take some experimentation and tweaking, but if we could find the optimum ratio (ie size of monkey/caloric intake/output) we could probably run this thing on one banana per day  ;D

hi all

very  good pic
this one is OU
you need only bananas
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 16, 2009, 09:47:10 PM
i explained how to derrive the calculus energy equations for this entire system about 20 pages ago.

the entire system from input to output is slightly less than Unity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 22, 2009, 11:35:25 PM
Hi everyone

It took me days to read this entire thread, and quite thrilling it was too!

I'm attaching my idea for closing the loop. I think that it will take some experimentation and tweaking, but if we could find the optimum ratio (ie size of monkey/caloric intake/output) we could probably run this thing on one banana per day  ;D

I like this idea :)
________________

It seems we have another theoretical interpretation of two-stage mechanical oscillator:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Aleksandar_Slavkovic_Milkovic's_Two_Stage_Oscillator_As_a_Parametric_Oscillator.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on March 23, 2009, 02:28:08 AM


          Hi!

In a message from Veljko Milkovic,today,I have received an interesting parametric oscillator explanation from an authorized scientist...

So,you can read about it,if you take a look   http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Aleksandr_Slavkovic_Milkovic's_Two_Stage_Oscillator_As_a_Parametric_Oscillator.pdf

You can see this device,as a far-away picture,in a simple manner:plainly the "strange swinging " of a  weighting machine(balance)/a variable mass -constant mass pair.

If you like,a see-saw game with an "active"   player ,only.

     All the Bests!  /  Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on March 23, 2009, 02:30:02 AM
If there is more power coming out of the other end of the swinging hammer, then would this following idea work?

When the weight is swinging, the other end "where 12 times the input comes out" could power the swinging hammer (via mechanism) to keep it swinging so it perpetuates???

Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 23, 2009, 02:59:54 AM
If there is more power coming out of the other end of the swinging hammer, then would this following idea work?

When the weight is swinging, the other end "where 12 times the input comes out" could power the swinging hammer (via mechanism) to keep it swinging so it perpetuates???

Alex

You should read this study first
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 02, 2009, 02:35:29 PM
Maybe we should take into account the use of new technologies for this machine.
The first thing could be reducing the friction in pendulum's pivot point by changing the classic metal ball bearings with ceramic ball bearings - it is estimated that pendulum will oscilate 6 times more then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfamxrIQgU

Did anyone use/test these ceramic bearings? Any experience?

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 13, 2009, 03:19:09 PM
Maybe we should take into account the use of new technologies for this machine.
The first thing could be reducing the friction in pendulum's pivot point by changing the classic metal ball bearings with ceramic ball bearings - it is estimated that pendulum will oscilate 6 times more then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfamxrIQgU

Did anyone use/test these ceramic bearings? Any experience?


I think I found the answers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jZUdiAfWm8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on April 13, 2009, 07:24:11 PM
I think I found the answers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jZUdiAfWm8

Thank Merg

 That will work well, especially around magnet designs. I have a couple but never thought about using them. You know out of sight out of mind in this case. :-[
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on April 14, 2009, 01:00:50 AM
Maybe we should take into account the use of new technologies for this machine.
The first thing could be reducing the friction in pendulum's pivot point by changing the classic metal ball bearings with ceramic ball bearings - it is estimated that pendulum will oscilate 6 times more then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfamxrIQgU

Did anyone use/test these ceramic bearings? Any experience?



G'day Merg'

If Milkovic's design had anywhere near the surplus energy he claims bearings would be the least of your worry. Milkovic cheats and his so called "Expert" evaluations are a lot of crap. The device loses energy instead of gaining any. His theories are rubbish.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: SteinerP on April 16, 2009, 05:42:55 PM
The idea of ceramic bearings being used deserves attention, at least to put more light on further developing this and other similar possibilities, which would also have the potential to be applied. It could be interesting collecting data on practical use of this idea, so if there are any - this is the right place for them to be shared.

Btw, negative and sarcastic tone which is in continuation used by some users of this forum is something I personally don't see as a productive way of thinking and acting. Maybe it is a necessary accompaniment of researchers and their struggle with problems they face (although I seriously doubt it is a characteristic of a sound researcher), but for sure it is a component that lessen their chances to come up with results directly proportionate to the extent of that tone. Let alone those who are just sarcastic and doing nothing else.

Best regards
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: 1quasar1 on April 16, 2009, 08:52:01 PM
I share Steiner's thoughts. I will be using ceramic bearings on my device thanks to the discussion on this subject.
Dave
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 16, 2009, 10:37:59 PM
I share Steiner's thoughts. I will be using ceramic bearings on my device thanks to the discussion on this subject.
Dave

Good choice, Dave. Another good comparation: standard bearings run 7 seconds while ceramic bearings run 34 seconds on this bike:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW7wKg6OSFg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 16, 2009, 10:46:58 PM
G'day Merg'

If Milkovic's design had anywhere near the surplus energy he claims bearings would be the least of your worry. Milkovic cheats and his so called "Expert" evaluations are a lot of crap. The device loses energy instead of gaining any. His theories are rubbish.

Hans von Lieven

So, what is the main problem why this pendulum-lever system doesn't work?
We saw it worked and at least it alleviated pumping of water like in the pendulum pump example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvst47E5CvM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on April 16, 2009, 10:48:36 PM
Yeah, I mainly agree with you steiner, although I don't think we need anything better than ball bearings, the main losses lies in how much we allow the pivot of the pendulum to move, and if we are dealing with large masses, and big inputs and outputs then I think friction in the bearings are mostly negligible.

And hansvonlieven, I don't think so much about how milcovic? claimed that the device worked, neither on that fancy presentation with techno beats ;D

What matters to me is not the theory or thought explanation of phenomena, but rather the actual practical workings of the device and its reaction to load versus no load.

This machine clearly does the opposite to other mechanical machines and simple machines, when used with and without a load.
Milcovic showed that in his videos, and if you think about it logically (I hope I did), the reversal of its reaction to the driving force allows you to collect a much larger amount of energy than in the "normal" situation. Let me just say that this isn't limited to a pendlum.
Have you ever wondered why the wood on an acoustic guitar can amplify the vibration of the strings something like a hundred times (probably much more!)? Because it is really the exact same principle!  The string is vibrating from an almost fixed point. That point vibrates slightly, causing the wood on the guitar to move, and thereby generating a much louder sound than what the string could, and it wont ring for a shorter duration either. The energy output from any acoustical amplifier is much larger than what the driving input was. It only needs to resonate a vibrator, and allow that vibrator to expand some of that energy to its restrictor (bad words I know, but they work).

This pendulum here is almost the same as an acoustical amplifier, we only slowed the frequency down from something like 400 hz to 0.5 hz or more. I tested this on a trumpet end, by placing a headphone speaker in the input side. The audio level increased with something like 10 to 20 times, I'm not kidding! And I seriously doubt that it drew any more current while doing it ; )


And you now what I think? Maybe this isn't only limited to mechanical motions, maybe it is one of the fundamental principles that allows nature spend all the energy it needs to make what we have today a reality?
And as far as I am concerned, the thermodynamic laws don't fit very well with how both the universe and our nature with all its life has turned out, it isn't very conservative in my eyes... (you can interpret that both ways XD)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: el-tigre on April 17, 2009, 05:18:52 PM
Gentlemen,

I have read most of this thread and the Milkovic web site,and I have not seen the possible solution I am about to suggest, so please forgive me if it has been tried before.

It seems that the output side of the device is aptly suited to capturing air pressure with a simple piston pump and reed valve arrangement and storing it in a conventional pressure tank, or hydraulic pressure with a hydraulic accumulator storage system.  The resultant captured energy is easily used to actuate a cylinder to drive the pendulum.

The timing system is a simple trip valve activated by the pendulum itself.  In this configuration, the pendulum drive and timing system is totally independant of the output side pressure generation and capture system. Pendulum impulse timing and duration is easily adjusted in micorscopic increments by simple movements of valve actuator stop settings.  This is a completely mechanical system that captures output energy and stores it for use on the pendulum side. Excess energy, if any is generated in this system, is easily measured with a simple pressure gauge. (If the gauge indicator increases over time, you have OU if not then we seek other solutions and use this device as an efficient pump transmission or trip hammer etc.)

I suggest that this arrangement would eliminate any arguments that battery driven pendulum drivers add external energy to the system.

Please let me know if this solution has been tried by anyone.

thanks.

p.s. to all the naysayers, do not be too hasty dismissing the experimental researchers, it is entirely possible to convert potential energy through kinetic energy and into usable work with nothing more than gravity, harmonic resonance and 2 valves. Here is how I did it, explained in detail for anyone to build and use themselves...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Worlds_greenest_water_pump

The Milkovic solution may be another viable  method of gravity potential energy conversion if a novel combination of mechanical parts can be found.  Keep on experimenting, it's the only way real human progress is achieved.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on April 17, 2009, 08:14:42 PM
Gentlemen,

I have read most of this thread and the Milkovic web site,and I have not seen the possible solution I am about to suggest, so please forgive me if it has been tried before.

It seems that the output side of the device is aptly suited to capturing air pressure with a simple piston pump and reed valve arrangement and storing it in a conventional pressure tank, or hydraulic pressure with a hydraulic accumulator storage system.  The resultant captured energy is easily used to actuate a cylinder to drive the pendulum.

The timing system is a simple trip valve activated by the pendulum itself.  In this configuration, the pendulum drive and timing system is totally independant of the output side pressure generation and capture system. Pendulum impulse timing and duration is easily adjusted in micorscopic increments by simple movements of valve actuator stop settings.  This is a completely mechanical system that captures output energy and stores it for use on the pendulum side. Excess energy, if any is generated in this system, is easily measured with a simple pressure gauge. (If the gauge indicator increases over time, you have OU if not then we seek other solutions and use this device as an efficient pump transmission or trip hammer etc.)

I suggest that this arrangement would eliminate any arguments that battery driven pendulum drivers add external energy to the system.

Please let me know if this solution has been tried by anyone.

thanks.

p.s. to all the naysayers, do not be too hasty dismissing the experimental researchers, it is entirely possible to convert potential energy through kinetic energy and into usable work with nothing more than gravity, harmonic resonance and 2 valves. Here is how I did it, explained in detail for anyone to build and use themselves...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Worlds_greenest_water_pump

The Milkovic solution may be another viable  method of gravity potential energy conversion if a novel combination of mechanical parts can be found.  Keep on experimenting, it's the only way real human progress is achieved.


For all of you who believe in god, a great ray of light just shined in my mind.... ;D 

El-tigre, THANK YOU!

First of all, I completely agree with you that a pneumatic/hydraulic trigger and storage system is what this machine is best suited for.
You could easily regulate the pressure in the tank by moving the piston closer or further away from the center axis of the hinge.
The pendulum idea I have also thought about before, but then I didn't have the skill to complete such a system.
Also, it is possible to use a spring instead of a pendulum in this system, then the driving pressure could just push a piston up while another strong spring dragged it back, very easy setup.

Second, that video just hit me, really hard! I mean, you got it working there, going by itself and all....
The principle is so easy, at least the construction. I know I could have needed this, and for fun I could make a everlasting fountain : D
I don't know what else to say, for now. But I will be building your setup really soon!

Thank You, and also welcome to overunity!

Btw, I listened to this music while I looked at your machine, perfect  : )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6hGc7S8d88&feature=related
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: el-tigre on April 18, 2009, 03:21:37 AM
Naboo00, thanks for the thumbs up on my water pump. 

I'm pleased you think the design is easy to build, it is, ;D - now that I have tinkered with it for over a year and pounded all the weak spots out of it by brute force experimentation.

I hope you enjoy the energy free water as much as we do.  I hooked it up again just 2 days ago now that the weather is warm enough and it looks like we are going to need it. No rain in our area for over 3 weeks and the ground is bone dry. Sad for April spring weather. I guess global warming is starting to bite us now for real.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on April 20, 2009, 03:02:11 PM
Quote
Naboo00, thanks for the thumbs up on my water pump.

I'm pleased you think the design is easy to build, it is, Grin - now that I have tinkered with it for over a year and pounded all the weak spots out of it by brute force experimentation.

I hope you enjoy the energy free water as much as we do.  I hooked it up again just 2 days ago now that the weather is warm enough and it looks like we are going to need it. No rain in our area for over 3 weeks and the ground is bone dry. Sad for April spring weather. I guess global warming is starting to bite us now for real.

Well it is, since even I could build that thing  ;D
Well, as I now have studied your setup some more I see that it does actually send a lot of water (maybe half) down to a lower potential, but the other part is traveling way beyond the hight of the original source, right?

So, theoretically, the water being shot out from the first valve controlling the frequency, it should almost reach the same hight as the source because of its pressure right? Well in that case we are only dealing with minor losses of energy but HUGE gains because of the pump's pressure gain caused by momentum.

There could have been made a way for you to pump the recycled water to the remaining height in order for it to go back to its water source.
Then you would really have a convincing free energy machine!
If you could just have converted a small amount of momentum from the pump output to drive some primitive waterwheel or anything, then you could have completely transferred all the water from a lower potential to a higher one.

And you know, if you did this then you could send all of the water in a loop, then at the same time push some kind of generator or secondary water pump.
Then you could have irrigated those dry lands from a river far away ; ) 

Again this is really interesting, and the important part is that you are using momentum as a form of pneumatic gear which by itself will increase the potential energy.
In reality all gears can do this, because of potential difference and because velocity in a kinetic energy equation increases the energy by its square, making it superior to mass.

E = V'2 * M * 1/2

See what a simple gear can do?

All the best : )
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on April 21, 2009, 11:07:15 PM
Again to all watching this, I cannot stress enough how incredible a gear or a simple machine as they are called really is, especially a pneumatic/hydraulic one (they're almost without loss).

I have verified this for my self theoretically now, with simple weights hanging down and connected to a gear, which then is further connected to weights of different masses. You will as a matter of fact generate more energy the more the leverage makes the second weight move.
Because distance versus force is inversely proportional in their relationship, while mass versus velocity is not, you can effectively create the double amount of energy if you decrease the force by 0.5 and increase the distance by 2.
A doubling of distance will cause the the velocity to double, but the kinetic energy stored in a moving body is affected four times more by the velocity than by the mass, this is also why doubling the speed of a car requires four times as long time to brake than before (if you used the same force on the brake pedal) because the energy stored in car is four times as much.

This does also apply to water in motion, so this is much more a realization of the actual workings of nature than something anyone can get a patent on. After all, the leverage is an ancient device.

Wish you all a good day  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 18, 2009, 04:01:16 PM
The latest news from Freeenergynews.com:

Milkovic Output/Input Measured at 1.46 - Ronald Pugh, a Canadian machinist, reports on the pendulum-lever system efficiency measurement he conducted. Once again, he confirms the super efficiency of Milkovic's Two-stage Mechanical Oscillator.

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf

Finally, that is something we have been waiting a long time.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 18, 2009, 04:13:30 PM
Hurray!
Then it should take but a few hours worth of fiddling to close the loop!
I've proposed simple setups for this, surely others have proposed even better ones.

So, what's taking the inventor and the replicators? 12:1, that's offers room for some friction losses, I'd say?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 18, 2009, 04:53:05 PM
The latest news from Freeenergynews.com:

Milkovic Output/Input Measured at 1.46 - Ronald Pugh, a Canadian machinist, reports on the pendulum-lever system efficiency measurement he conducted. Once again, he confirms the super efficiency of Milkovic's Two-stage Mechanical Oscillator.

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf

Finally, that is something we have been waiting a long time.

Thanks you for the report Merg! Its great to have some independent replications available, this one those also seem to be professionally conducted.

Someone should also try a pneumatic solution to the trigger and power handling, it can probably do just as well (or better) than an electrical one.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 18, 2009, 06:23:54 PM
Milkovic Output/Input Measured at 1.46 - Ronald Pugh, a Canadian machinist, reports on the pendulum-lever system efficiency measurement he conducted.

ok , ok
if this penduleum is so efficient ...
it has to be easy to loop this stuff ? and so the proof of OU !!

I have my own replication of the dual pendulum but ... I am sceptical


Quote
Once again, he confirms the super efficiency of Milkovic's Two-stage Mechanical Oscillator.


no it is the first time that I see measurement of this pendulum

we are waiting for confirmation from other replication !!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fritz on May 18, 2009, 07:40:14 PM
============================================================
Work done: (1)
It lifts 40 pounds 1.75 inches 100 times a minute
that is 40 pounds 175 inches in one minute
divide that by 60 to get distance in one second = 2.9166 inches or .24 feet
per second
40 times .24 = 9.722 foot pounds per second divided by 550 = .01767 HP
746 watts per HP divided by .01767 = 13.18 watts
Therefore, 9 watts input, for 13.18 watts output
= COP, 1.46
========================================================
I think this calculation is BS.

The 40 pounds are lifted 100 times a minute 1.75inch (against gravity)- but -
this excess energy(!!) is reflected back into the other oscillator during go down.
so (==0).
This statement would only be true for 40 pounds weight going up and down - and an extra weight of 40 pounds  which loads extra during going up.
Then there would be energy "comming out".
With this initial assumption wrong - there is no go.

This 2nd order oscillations are quite nice when it comes to transform _POWER_.
You can achieve strongest momentum pumping energy from the first oscillator into the 2nd one...

Its amazing how a tiny oscillating weight can cause the big move - but its just conversion of kinetic energy into potential energy back and forth. The movement of the big mass has to be seen as an oscillation with high Q, less losses.

If using as hammer - tiny part of the kinetic energy deforms the material - the remaining part is reflected back - recycled into the first oscillator.

Even if this is a very nice technique - I see no excess _ENERGY_ here - even if there is lots of _POWER_ accessible (for a certain time).

For machines with stop-move-stop operation - things like that can save a lot of power.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 18, 2009, 09:28:26 PM
============================================================
Work done: (1)
It lifts 40 pounds 1.75 inches 100 times a minute
that is 40 pounds 175 inches in one minute
divide that by 60 to get distance in one second = 2.9166 inches or .24 feet
per second
40 times .24 = 9.722 foot pounds per second divided by 550 = .01767 HP
746 watts per HP divided by .01767 = 13.18 watts
Therefore, 9 watts input, for 13.18 watts output
= COP, 1.46
========================================================
I think this calculation is BS.

The 40 pounds are lifted 100 times a minute 1.75inch (against gravity)- but -
this excess energy(!!) is reflected back into the other oscillator during go down.
so (==0).
This statement would only be true for 40 pounds weight going up and down - and an extra weight of 40 pounds  which loads extra during going up.
Then there would be energy "comming out".
With this initial assumption wrong - there is no go.

This 2nd order oscillations are quite nice when it comes to transform _POWER_.
You can achieve strongest momentum pumping energy from the first oscillator into the 2nd one...

Its amazing how a tiny oscillating weight can cause the big move - but its just conversion of kinetic energy into potential energy back and forth. The movement of the big mass has to be seen as an oscillation with high Q, less losses.

If using as hammer - tiny part of the kinetic energy deforms the material - the remaining part is reflected back - recycled into the first oscillator.

Even if this is a very nice technique - I see no excess _ENERGY_ here - even if there is lots of _POWER_ accessible (for a certain time).

For machines with stop-move-stop operation - things like that can save a lot of power.

Your are completely wrong in your assumption that energy is reflected back from each turn.
If there was a spring which was compressed when the hammer went down then yes, it would have saved energy in each turn. But smashing metal down in the table will not make the metal bounce back up, it will transfer most of the momentum in the metal into heat, sounds and other vibrations.
Of course using a hammer to prove more work out is a very crude way to convince someone that it can actually do more useful work, so it should be connected to something, like a wheel maybe, or perhaps a pickup coil. The evidence put forward however is clear, and I cannot see how you can dispute it. You are of course free to prove me wrong.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fritz on May 18, 2009, 10:25:52 PM
Your are completely wrong in your assumption that energy is reflected back from each turn.
If there was a spring which was compressed when the hammer went down then yes, it would have saved energy in each turn. But smashing metal down in the table will not make the metal bounce back up, it will transfer most of the momentum in the metal into heat, sounds and other vibrations.
Of course using a hammer to prove more work out is a very crude way to convince someone that it can actually do more useful work, so it should be connected to something, like a wheel maybe, or perhaps a pickup coil. The evidence put forward however is clear, and I cannot see how you can dispute it. You are of course free to prove me wrong.
If you hammer manually - you "charge" the hammer with potential energy on going up - accelerate the mass of the hammer on going down - and if the hammer hits the target - the kinetic energy of the hammer is released into deformation, vibration, bounce back.
By choosing the right hammer with the proper weight and optimum length you can reduce the effect for a special purpose.
If your hands feel broken at the end of the hammering day - you obviously used the wrong hammer - and your hands had to absorb too much energy.

This case is different. The hammer is mounted on a solid lever which allows only movement in one axis. So any energy which cannot be absorbed of the target is reflected back into the lever - feeding energy to the other weight at the other side.

Depending on the absorption of the hammered target - part of this energy is reflected back - adds immediate to the kinetic energy at the other side.
In the case of a non compressible, absolutly solid target - the entire energy is transformed back minus the losses by friction in the bearing of the lever.
Think about pool billiard, think about softer and harder balls,....
depending on the involved material - same story.

Part of the deformation is reversible (thats the spring you are missing), other part of the deformation exceeds the material constant where deformation gets inreversible.

The hammer itself doesn´t need extra energy to go up and down (without touching). The only energy needed is to compensate friction in the bearing.
If you limit the movement of this oscillation - you can harvest the kinetic energy at that point. Depending on how you do that - you can have the entire energy - or only part of it.
Hammering into a sand bed will absorb very much energy. If you assume perfect non-deformable lever, perfect rocksolid mounting which stops the weight on that point - well where should the energy go ? If this mounting is more solid than the hammer - the hammer will bounce.

This setup works only well with perfect solid lever - otherwise part of the energy would be lost due to dynamic deformation of the lever. (Well, part of this energy would be come back but the "leverage" would decrease
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 19, 2009, 01:49:33 AM
It would be interesting to see just how the "output" was measured.

My guess is it was done with a spring scale, in which case most of the energy would have been fed back into the system. Let it hit a solid surface and then see how it performs. If my experiments and simulations are an indicator, very poorly !

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fritz on May 19, 2009, 02:04:55 AM
It would be interesting to see just how the "output" was measured.

The guy integrated the energy needed to lift the weight of the secondary oscillator n-times, ignoring the fact that this is part of an oscillator.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 19, 2009, 06:27:44 AM
The guy integrated the energy needed to lift the weight of the secondary oscillator n-times, ignoring the fact that this is part of an oscillator.

You at least seem to have read my study but seem to have little or no comprehension of how the pendulum works.

I have here a pendulum 101 for you and anybody who would like to learn more about this fascinating machine.
------------------------------------

The pendulum swings back and forth. In doing so, on the up swing, the bob loses weight; conversely on the down swing it gains weight. Just a rule of thumb but at about a swing angle of 120 degrees the pendulum bob will lose half its weight on the upswing and gain half its weight on the down swing.

That is, a bob of 18Kg will weigh 9 Kg just before it changes direction on its up swing and will weigh 27 Kg at the bottom of its down swing.

This can be measured at the pendulum pivot point. Just as resonance is generally discouraged, through diodes and filter networks, so too has the motion of the pendulum pivot (axle). This movement has been discouraged through the sturdy construction of the pendulum support structure about the axle.

Veljko Milkovic has brought this interesting phenomenon to our attention, that there is a possible power source here, and has indicated the way to usefulness in the secondary arm machine.

It is most apparent in the hammer mode. This is quite clearly indicated in his models. Also R Head’s videos show this to good effect. It was with this in mind that I thought to put a load cell in the path and graph the results.  As can be seen in the video I have provided an input drive to the pendulum in the form of two solenoids. This provides me with a consistent operating point. I have always been able to derive the input by electrical means but also strain gauged it for the experiment.

The pendulum runs fine by itself or with the secondary arm allowed to oscillate. With the arm allowed to oscillate the force at the pivot is transferred through to the counter weight.
In the experiment the 40 pound bob is counter balanced by a 45 pound counter weight as the arm length ratio is just over 1:1. 

It is to me most interesting to see as the bob reaches the bottom of its swing the counter weight is snatched up from its rest position and weighs an extra 20 pounds. Then as the bob reaches its upper position the counter weight is dropped. In doing so it loses 20 pounds. This is clearly shown in the graph and should just be common sense as you can see this happening in both Milkovic’s and R Head’s machines. How could it be otherwise?

Lets make this perfectly clear, as Nixon would say, the counter weight does not oscillate up and down by its self!  The pendulum drives it.

Take an 18 Kg weight fritz and put it on the floor. Stand over it and pick it up and put it down 45mm at a rate of 100 times a minute and tell me you are doing no work. I think you can see the fallacy of your argument?

Yet the pendulum can do this same amount of work for an expenditure of less than 9 watts.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 19, 2009, 06:33:19 AM
It would be interesting to see just how the "output" was measured.

My guess is it was done with a spring scale, in which case most of the energy would have been fed back into the system. Let it hit a solid surface and then see how it performs. If my experiments and simulations are an indicator, very poorly !

Hans von Lieven

Hans you should know better than that, guessing is not scientific... do you want me to have omni have a word with you?  lol

Ron

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on May 19, 2009, 06:47:43 AM
To assist Ron, and help others understand the physics of a pendulum I give you the following links; Pendulum 101

Some basic links regarding pendulums;

To experiment with the materialworlds links you will have to download the java type animation program, first link given.


http://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/coupled_resonant_pendlm/index.html
http://paer.rutgers.edu/PT3/experiment.php?topicid=4&exptid=59

After reviewing the above, it should not take one much to consider the following.

Bessler stated that weights in motion/swinging gained force. He was also clever of giving us a clue relating to things being backwards of the usual expectations. Was he adding weights to make OB or was he reducing the gravitational potential of a weight to make OB.

Ralph Lortie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on May 19, 2009, 06:51:47 AM

Take an 18 Kg weight fritz and put it on the floor. Stand over it and pick it up and put it down 45mm at a rate of 100 times a minute and tell me you are doing no work. I think you can see the fallacy of your argument?

Yet the pendulum can do this same amount of work for an expenditure of less than 9 watts.

Ron

How did you get this far in science without understanding some basic concepts?

By your logic, a pendulum is many many times overunity.  After all, you only have to lift a weight once, and then it manages, after falling, to rise again, and after falling, to rise again, and again, and again.  With a low friction pendulum, we have what, a 1000:1 overunity ratio?  But yet, a simple pendulum clock is not overunity.  Surely there must be a flaw here somewhere.

Let me clue you in.  The only work done by the free swinging pendulum is resisting air (and perhaps some resistance at the base of the string).  If you add up all the energy spent on friction, it will add up exactly to the energy required to lift the pendulum bob to its starting position from low point of pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 19, 2009, 07:42:21 AM
Hans you should know better than that, guessing is not scientific... do you want me to have omni have a word with you?  lol

Ron

Sorry Ron,

Since the method of measuring was not supplied (In the best of unscientific tradition by the way) I took it the documented approach until now applied ( Bathroom scales, springscales, fishscales and other accurate scientific equipment ) as the method of measurement used in the example. If you have a better guess, be my guest.

Maybe some of Omni's rigourous scientific testing is more to the point, maybe he will even tell us what it is.  ;)

Until then, I am still guessing LOL

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on May 19, 2009, 11:02:56 AM
...
After all, you only have to lift a weight once, and then it manages, after falling, to rise again, and after falling, to rise again, and again, and again.  With a low friction pendulum, we have what, a 1000:1 overunity ratio?
...

You're right. We don't need any energy to maintain a pendulum swinging except to compensate for the frictions (air and mechanics).
In this paper announced in the last sunday news at peswiki.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Ouput_Measurement_Mk5.pdf) there is a Milkovic Output/Input measurement at COP 1.46.

First we must admit we are far from the "12 times more output than input".

Then when we see the calculation, we understand it is completely wrong.
The author argues that the work done on the counter weight (used instead of the hammer) is the product of its weight by the height at which it rises (he's right).

Then by an obscur reasoning not only involving the time but also confusing the forces measured in the referential of the constraint jauge on the counter weight and of an observer at rest, he calculates the "work" and finds watts instead of joules!
He finally calculates the COP using the mean electric power (which seems to be that for maintaining the movement, not that just needed to rise the height of the counter weight).

At least we can say that the height at which the counter weight rises then oscillates is 0.044 m (1.75 inches). The weight is 40 pounds = 18.18 Kg. Thus the work done is 0.044*18.18=0.8 Joule. If the time needed by the counter weight to attain 0.044 m is 1 mn, then the required power is 0.8/60=0,013 W.
9W of electric power were used, so COP=0,013/9=0,0015. What a fantastic over unity :-)))

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 19, 2009, 11:53:50 AM
Hans you should know better than that, guessing is not scientific... do you want me to have omni have a word with you?  lol

Ron

I am sorry I_ron but the maths are erroneous and we need the protocol used

the moving weight up and down is not a real usefull output work !

all the moving parts are depending each other and in equilibrium ... so the output work is egal : 0
the cop = 0

you need to put , with the moving weight up and down , a load

this load has to do a real usefull work ... and you can look at this work ...
and you see that the real output work is less than the input one !!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 19, 2009, 12:04:21 PM
If the pendulum could drive a car jack, moving the car only upward, that would be interesting.

But, I'm pretty sure it can't.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 19, 2009, 12:21:11 PM
If the pendulum could drive a car jack, moving the car only upward, that would be interesting.

But, I'm pretty sure it can't.

moving a car or water ( like in the water pump )

I am sure this pendulum can pump water , but ...

with bad efficiency !!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 19, 2009, 12:52:17 PM
moving a car or water ( like in the water pump )

I am sure this pendulum can pump water , but ...

with bad efficiency !!
It may take quite some jerking/stomping that first stage pendulum :-)

I was wondering about a pendulum that swings in a circle. Would the load on its support remain the same as when just hanging there, as CF is compesating for the contant <90 degree angle at which it's effecting its force?
Then, what about if we could restrict the angle, while accelerating the rotations, any difference?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 19, 2009, 01:07:40 PM
moving a car or water ( like in the water pump )

I am sure this pendulum can pump water , but ...

with bad efficiency !!

Nope, just like it wont push air with a bad efficiency either.
In one of his videos, Milkovic showed the FUNDAMENTAL difference between using the oscillation of a spring directly to push volumes of air, and then indirectly with a pendulum via his 2-stage method.

As in a spring with weight, pendulum mass, guitar string or even a wheel (if unbalanced), the energy spent to create an oscillation will be drained in direct proportion to the work done when used to directly drive the load. By that I mean that the pendulum would loose all its energy at the moment it is directly connected to a load, at its mass. The same goes for a vibrating guitar string, the mass hanging in a spring or any other mechanical oscillator.

However, when indirectly connected as is the case here, the weights momentum will not be proportionally drained in relation to the work it is doing, which Milkovic showed quite convincingly by connecting it to a paper which then pushed a lot of air. As in his first test, where it was connected directly, the oscillations of the spring died out almost instantly because of the air resistance. You must admit the there is an important difference between the two modes of operation.

And as I've tried to tell you guys here before, this principle is in itself not a new invention.
All acoustic instruments which exploits a resonant chambers of some kind, uses this principle to magnify its sound volume many times. You can test this with an electrical guitar, by placing its neck against the wall or door, and listen to how many times the sound produced is magnified.
The wooden case of a guitar does this at an incredible efficiency, and makes an  almost unbelievable large sound compeered to without the case.
A trumpet does also increase the volume out versus in, and you can verify this by placing small headphone against the opening of mouth of the instrument, the volume will be greatly increased.


Just as thought, I think we should start a whole new topic on the resonance effect in itself, because there is so many inventions and possible inventions which exploit this effect.
Some of them are: The 2-stage oscillator, all acoustic amplifiers, the rotoverter, the transverter (not the one used in radio-engineering) and all other possible ideas.

But guys come on!  You can clearly see a difference between loading the pendulum directly and indirectly as I just explained. Think.... What would the energy stored in a vibrating string, coming out of the guitar case be compeered to the little click that comes if you place a mechanical 'load' on the string itself?
This is directly comparable to the Milkovic pendulum and why it is so different to a "normal" machine.

Just think a little before you dismiss my whole speech as bunch of unrelated bogus.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 19, 2009, 01:09:20 PM
It may take quite some jerking/stomping that first stage pendulum :-)

I was wondering about a pendulum that swings in a circle. Would the load on its support remain the same as when just hanging there, as CF is compesating for the contant <90 degree angle at which it's effecting its force?
Then, what about if we could restrict the angle, while accelerating the rotations, any difference?

My idea exactly, I made a sketch of it some months ago, here it is:
http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/mydualmechanicaloscillator (http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/mydualmechanicaloscillator)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 19, 2009, 02:22:49 PM
My idea exactly, I made a sketch of it some months ago, here it is:
http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/mydualmechanicaloscillator (http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/mydualmechanicaloscillator)
Actually, I meant something much less significant that what you did there. Most clever! I'd be most interested to see such a machine, and why it does (or doesn't) work. I hope someone with the required skills will soon get to building that machine.

I was merely rambling to myself whether a restricted swinging weight in some way could be used to get more "gravity pull". Likely not, or at least not easily so.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fritz on May 19, 2009, 02:34:49 PM
Lets make this perfectly clear, as Nixon would say, the counter weight does not oscillate up and down by its self!  The pendulum drives it.

If started from pendulum....
If I mess around with the counterweight initially - I can make the pendulum swing even from the output. (but this is probably lots of _work_)
There is no mechanical "diode" or ratchet which decouples both oscillations.
If the stuff works on it´s own - you can´t say that one part drives the other.
Its one piece.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 19, 2009, 03:36:58 PM
Actually, I meant something much less significant that what you did there. Most clever! I'd be most interested to see such a machine, and why it does (or doesn't) work. I hope someone with the required skills will soon get to building that machine.

I was merely rambling to myself whether a restricted swinging weight in some way could be used to get more "gravity pull". Likely not, or at least not easily so.

My belief is that in the common 2-stage oscillator (pendulum), the gravity is only aiding in the creation of an oscillation, like a capacitor and a coil makes an LC tank.
In my 'upgrade', I does away with gravity, and since it is the centripetal force we are tapping, weight will no longer be an issue. Since centrifugal and centripetal force increases by the square of its angular velocity, simply allowing it to rotate faster will make the output larger, so we do not need any more weight in the pendulum (or unbalanced wheel).
The only case where we would maybe have needed a larger weight would be when we wanted a lower rpm, but still a lot of power.

I have plans of making that thing some time in the future when my welding skills gets better ;)
Btw, after seeing some machine related on the energetic forum, I found that an extremely simple version of the machine on my homepage can be made to instead use water.
Since the pressure of the water will increase with an increased rotation, you could make something resembling a centrifugal pump which uses the high pressure water to further aid its rotation, by using small jet-like outlets which pushes in the same direction as the rotation.
This could be little like Schaubergers machines, where only a start motor was needed in other to create a self driven vortex-pump.

At least to me the concept seems very possible....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cherryman on May 19, 2009, 04:14:47 PM
When I see him driving a pump (resistance)  would it then not be very easy to create something like the attached drawing?

I'm sure i'm overlooking something... because it can not be that simple.... 



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 19, 2009, 04:27:03 PM
When I see him driving a pump (resistance)  would it then not be very easy to create something like the attached drawing?

I'm sure i'm overlooking something... because it can not be that simple....

Yep, it could be that easy, but through that design an many other you get a lot of losses, especially because of your cranks. In a machine very similar I am using a weight in a spring instead of a pendulum, and will try to use a nylon tread in order to take some of the output and send it back to the weight. And a spring is more easy to handle since it only goes up and down.
Adjusting the tightness the tread is will decide when it pulls and when it releases.

The biggest problem is getting the timing right, that goes also for your approach.
But build it, then we can see if it actually is possible to send the energy back.
I believe the answer to that question is yes, but a proof of concept would be very satisfying....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cherryman on May 19, 2009, 04:39:37 PM
Yep, it could be that easy, but through that design an many other you get a lot of losses, especially because of your cranks. In a machine very similar I am using a weight in a spring instead of a pendulum, and will try to use a nylon tread in order to take some of the output and send it back to the weight. And a spring is more easy to handle since it only goes up and down.
Adjusting the tightness the tread is will decide when it pulls and when it releases.

The biggest problem is getting the timing right, that goes also for your approach.
But build it, then we can see if it actually is possible to send the energy back.
I believe the answer to that question is yes, but a proof of concept would be very satisfying....

Tnx.

Hmm I might try that...  (Just thinking what toys of my children i can demolish for this ;-) )
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 19, 2009, 04:53:01 PM
If started from pendulum....
If I mess around with the counterweight initially - I can make the pendulum swing even from the output. (but this is probably lots of _work_)
There is no mechanical "diode" or ratchet which decouples both oscillations.
If the stuff works on it´s own - you can´t say that one part drives the other.
Its one piece.

Fritz, Hans, Exnihiloest, Utilitarian, Tagor,

I am not an engineer, I do not have math skills, but I do have
a hands on working knowledge of this device.

The basic principle is very simple. When a pendulum bob swings up it loses weight as compared to the rest state. When it swings down it gains weight as compared to the rest state.

It is a fact of life. You can prove it mathematically or you can experience it directly. Take a 5 Kg weight in your hand and swing it in a half circle. As it swings up level it "appears" to be weightless, yet when it swings down it becomes very heavy.

This is it! the weight change appears at the pivot point!

Now take a one meter long arm and attach an 18 Kg  pendulum to one end with the fulcrum at the 500 mm mark. You must press down on the free end with a force of 18 Kg to bring the arm level. But you are doing no work.

Now, have your assistant operate the pendulum. Note that when the bob is at the peak of its swing you only have to push down with a force of 9 Kg to keep the arm level. When the bob swings down you really have to push down hard... 27 Kg hard... you are doing work... and you are doing work at a far greater rate than your assistant.

Now when you get smart you could just hang an 18 Kg weight on your end of the arm and step back... note now the weight is doing the work. But in doing so, the arm if still free to move will oscillate up and down, permitting even addition work to be preformed.

To reiterate, a pendulum bob in motion suffers a weight change. This weight change is present at the pivot. Connecting this to an arm transfers this weight change to the opposite end of the arm inversely, in accordance with the law of the lever. Once you understand this reading my document
should make more sense. There are links in the document to my video and sources.

Ron 

 



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 19, 2009, 05:02:35 PM
When I see him driving a pump (resistance)  would it then not be very easy to create something like the attached drawing?

I'm sure i'm overlooking something... because it can not be that simple....

what a very beautiful pic !

you win a bottle of champagne if it works !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 19, 2009, 05:10:46 PM
Sorry Ron,

Since the method of measuring was not supplied (In the best of unscientific tradition by the way) I took it the documented approach until now applied ( Bathroom scales, springscales, fishscales and other accurate scientific equipment ) as the method of measurement used in the example. If you have a better guess, be my guest.

Maybe some of Omni's rigourous scientific testing is more to the point, maybe he will even tell us what it is.  ;)

Until then, I am still guessing LOL

Hans von Lieven

Hans, in case you missed it the link was posted in message #908...

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf

Ron

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 19, 2009, 05:23:04 PM
How did you get this far in science without understanding some basic concepts?

By your logic, a pendulum is many many times overunity.  After all, you only have to lift a weight once, and then it manages, after falling, to rise again, and after falling, to rise again, and again, and again.  With a low friction pendulum, we have what, a 1000:1 overunity ratio?  But yet, a simple pendulum clock is not overunity.  Surely there must be a flaw here somewhere.

Let me clue you in.  The only work done by the free swinging pendulum is resisting air (and perhaps some resistance at the base of the string).  If you add up all the energy spent on friction, it will add up exactly to the energy required to lift the pendulum bob to its starting position from low point of pendulum.

I would be the first to admit that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer but your remarks do yourself an injustice.

I hope my two long posts are making this clearer for you.

Ron

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 19, 2009, 05:25:42 PM
You're right. We don't need any energy to maintain a pendulum swinging except to compensate for the frictions (air and mechanics).
In this paper announced in the last sunday news at peswiki.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Ouput_Measurement_Mk5.pdf) there is a Milkovic Output/Input measurement at COP 1.46.

First we must admit we are far from the "12 times more output than input".

Then when we see the calculation, we understand it is completely wrong.
The author argues that the work done on the counter weight (used instead of the hammer) is the product of its weight by the height at which it rises (he's right).

Then by an obscur reasoning not only involving the time but also confusing the forces measured in the referential of the constraint jauge on the counter weight and of an observer at rest, he calculates the "work" and finds watts instead of joules!
He finally calculates the COP using the mean electric power (which seems to be that for maintaining the movement, not that just needed to rise the height of the counter weight).

At least we can say that the height at which the counter weight rises then oscillates is 0.044 m (1.75 inches). The weight is 40 pounds = 18.18 Kg. Thus the work done is 0.044*18.18=0.8 Joule. If the time needed by the counter weight to attain 0.044 m is 1 mn, then the required power is 0.8/60=0,013 W.
9W of electric power were used, so COP=0,013/9=0,0015. What a fantastic over unity :-)))

Wrong.. watts = joules= fig newtons  :o

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 19, 2009, 05:28:43 PM
I am sorry I_ron but the maths are erroneous and we need the protocol used

the moving weight up and down is not a real usefull output work !

all the moving parts are depending each other and in equilibrium ... so the output work is egal : 0
the cop = 0

you need to put , with the moving weight up and down , a load

this load has to do a real usefull work ... and you can look at this work ...
and you see that the real output work is less than the input one !!

The load only has to do work... it doesn't have to be useful

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 19, 2009, 05:34:14 PM
If started from pendulum....
If I mess around with the counterweight initially - I can make the pendulum swing even from the output. (but this is probably lots of _work_)
There is no mechanical "diode" or ratchet which decouples both oscillations.
If the stuff works on it´s own - you can´t say that one part drives the other.
Its one piece.

You are correct to a point but note in my long post that you don't even need the counterweight.  So yes, most definitely, the force at the pendulum pivot drives the arm which drives the counter weight/load. I will go into this more once people are up to speed here.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 19, 2009, 11:18:37 PM
When I see him driving a pump (resistance)  would it then not be very easy to create something like the attached drawing?

I'm sure i'm overlooking something... because it can not be that simple....

You cannot use a crankshaft in the Milkovic device. Because the device is in many ways a double pendulum it has the same chaotic tendencies, unless severely dampened. Even then every second stroke length is different. A crankshaft requires a uniform stroke length in order to function.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 19, 2009, 11:25:44 PM
You cannot use a crankshaft in the Milkovic device. Because the device is in many ways a double pendulum it has the same chaotic tendencies, unless severely dampened. Even then every second stroke length is different. A crankshaft requires a uniform stroke length in order to function.

Hans von Lieven

True, but you could use a double ratchet system like Tommy Lee Reed did, it converted 100% of the linear force directly into torque, practically without loss.
Combined with this setup the pendulum would be very efficient at driving a wheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 19, 2009, 11:32:23 PM
True, but you could use a double ratchet system like Tommy Lee Reed did, it converted 100% of the linear force directly into torque, practically without loss.
Combined with this setup the pendulum would be very efficient at driving a wheel.


I proposed this in 2007,complete with my tongue in cheek animation of a "Milkovic Perpetuum Mobile".

See http://keelytech.com/news/milkovic.html (http://keelytech.com/news/milkovic.html)

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cherryman on May 19, 2009, 11:32:55 PM
True, but you could use a double ratchet system like Tommy Lee Reed did, it converted 100% of the linear force directly into torque, practically without loss.
Combined with this setup the pendulum would be very efficient at driving a wheel.


Or the driving mechanism of this attached :

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 19, 2009, 11:35:07 PM

Or the driving mechanism of this attached :

No, this works only on the forward stroke, you need it to work in both directions.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cherryman on May 19, 2009, 11:35:28 PM
True, but you could use a double ratchet system like Tommy Lee Reed did, it converted 100% of the linear force directly into torque, practically without loss.
Combined with this setup the pendulum would be very efficient at driving a wheel.

Sounds good, do you have a picture?

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 19, 2009, 11:38:53 PM
Sounds good, do you have a picture?

This is how a double ratchet works

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cherryman on May 19, 2009, 11:39:02 PM
No, this works only on the forward stroke, you need it to work in both directions.

Hans von Lieven

That would double the output, indeed.

It's the flywheel system i like, it will gain speed as you squuezes..  and every re-squeeze whill add speed.. ( hope i make sence)

I have no idear how that works, anyone any info?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 20, 2009, 01:23:38 AM
No, it wouldn't double the output but make it near 100 % efficient.

Too bad all of Tommy's videos where removed, I learned a lot from watching those.
Right now he is trying to get a patent on the ratched engine and a rotating piston design.
If the ratched engine was able to reach the market it would completely revolutionize the car industry, and every other industry as well which uses gas driven motors.

The fact that this design is so efficient would allow all cars to run on air, and get very far.
In my view batteries can't compete with air cylinders at all. Gas tanks can be refueled in seconds, and will take very long to wear out. In addition there isn't much pollution generated when trashing one.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Inquorate on May 20, 2009, 01:32:28 AM
@ i_ron and others,

you may be interested in what i've been doing over at energetic forum and posting on youtube.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3703-mechanical-engine-20.html

love and light
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Inquorate on May 20, 2009, 03:02:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPi4-fpMBJ0&

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGUmM0IV2Y&

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsnXO3eKlzE&







Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 20, 2009, 03:19:55 AM
@ i_ron and others,

you may be interested in what i've been doing over at energetic forum and posting on youtube.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3703-mechanical-engine-20.html

love and light

Inquorate,

Thank you for the link, most fascinating. I will bookmark the site.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 20, 2009, 03:30:02 AM
No, it wouldn't double the output but make it near 100 % efficient.

Too bad all of Tommy's videos where removed, I learned a lot from watching those.
Right now he is trying to get a patent on the ratched engine and a rotating piston design.
If the ratched engine was able to reach the market it would completely revolutionize the car industry, and every other industry as well which uses gas driven motors.

The fact that this design is so efficient would allow all cars to run on air, and get very far.
In my view batteries can't compete with air cylinders at all. Gas tanks can be refueled in seconds, and will take very long to wear out. In addition there isn't much pollution generated when trashing one.

I have not seen Tommy's videos, but if it is something like I imagine, most of the technology involved was covered and patented by George Constantinesco in the 1920's. The double ratchet shown by me was designed by Constantineso for instance, as a starting point and he developed it from there.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 20, 2009, 02:53:45 PM
I have not seen Tommy's videos, but if it is something like I imagine, most of the technology involved was covered and patented by George Constantinesco in the 1920's. The double ratchet shown by me was designed by Constantineso for instance, as a starting point and he developed it from there.

Hans von Lieven

Well even if he had already patented it, its weird that all of todays cars and factories doesn't use it, or well, I guess there is reason to that as well....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on May 20, 2009, 04:03:17 PM
...
This is it! the weight change appears at the pivot point!
Now take a one meter long arm and attach an 18 Kg  pendulum to one end with the fulcrum at the 500 mm mark. You must press down on the free end with a force of 18 Kg to bring the arm level. But you are doing no work.
...

Hi ron,

That is right. But here is what you missed.
You do no work when you raise the pivot of a pendulum.
But you don't raise the bob!

In fact it is obvious that a little work have to be done because the bob is attached to the lever: if one end of the lever goes up, the other one partially also, and the bob also  (a trigonometric calculus could give us the new height of the bob after having raised the pivot). Nevertheless it is not the point, this work is small if we don't raise much the pivot.

Now the pivot is higher than before but the bob is not. Then the angular amplitude of its movement will be lesser. The mean position of the center of gravity of the bob remains unchanged and its mean potential/kinetic energies also. The energy balance is null.

We see we did no work, but the pendulum did not as well.






Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 20, 2009, 04:59:13 PM
Hi ron,

That is right. But here is what you missed.
You do no work when you raise the pivot of a pendulum.
But you don't raise the bob!

In fact it is obvious that a little work have to be done because the bob is attached to the lever: if one end of the lever goes up, the other one partially also, and the bob also  (a trigonometric calculus could give us the new height of the bob after having raised the pivot). Nevertheless it is not the point, this work is small if we don't raise much the pivot.

Now the pivot is higher than before but the bob is not. Then the angular amplitude of its movement will be lesser. The mean position of the center of gravity of the bob remains unchanged and its mean potential/kinetic energies also. The energy balance is null.

We see we did no work, but the pendulum did not as well.

All the evidence of all the working models puts the lie to your statement, sorry.

But you do bring up a point that has been recognized. I have written on this very thing... in allowing the pivot point to move up and down out of sync with it's "natural" movement does cause an increase in the input energy required. For an example, at Botafumeiro we see classic mechanics  as the monks pull down on the rope, thus raising the burner at its 6:00 o'clock position. In the Milkovic device the bob is in decent at this point.

But it seems to work well (comfortably) at under 50 mm on the Mk 5.3, so this is not really a great problem.

This is a work in progress that I have shared with you and I am surprised that no one has pointed out this ... the inefficiency of the solenoid drive... less than 30%.  So the conclusion should be, wow, even with less than a 30% input drive the machine is still over unity!

Ron


 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 20, 2009, 07:49:46 PM
It would be interesting to see just how the "output" was measured.

My guess is it was done with a spring scale, in which case most of the energy would have been fed back into the system. Let it hit a solid surface and then see how it performs. If my experiments and simulations are an indicator, very poorly !

Hans von Lieven

Hans, your statement above was made in ignorance. I provided you with a link, yet you have not corrected your slanderous remarks.

This does not surprise me as I have read your, “Milkovic’s pendulum is bullshit” remarks on other lists before now.

So, to the best of my abilities, I have done the experiment and published my numbers, which you ignore. With an attitude like that why are you here? Have you no personal integrity to correct your wrongful statements, to honestly investigate new sources of information?

You have certainly exposed yourself and shown your true colors to this list.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 20, 2009, 08:59:34 PM
In this paper announced in the last sunday news at peswiki.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Ouput_Measurement_Mk5.pdf) there is a Milkovic Output/Input measurement at COP 1.46.

It is very interesting that Brian Berrett also got the same COP 1.46 two years ago :)

There is only a small electrical advantage with just six induction coils on the secondary oscillator wheel as presently configured. The input coil consumes 1 amp at twelve volts at approximately a 20% duty cycle which comes to around 2.4 Watts. The output is between 200 and 300 mAmps, at between 14 and 15 Volts, which comes to around 3.5 Watts AC (sine wave). These are very rough measurements and don't represent a full curve analysis of the input and output.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator#Electrical
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 20, 2009, 09:48:06 PM
It is very interesting that Brian Berrett also got the same COP 1.46 two years ago :)

There is only a small electrical advantage with just six induction coils on the secondary oscillator wheel as presently configured. The input coil consumes 1 amp at twelve volts at approximately a 20% duty cycle which comes to around 2.4 Watts. The output is between 200 and 300 mAmps, at between 14 and 15 Volts, which comes to around 3.5 Watts AC (sine wave). These are very rough measurements and don't represent a full curve analysis of the input and output.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator#Electrical

Merg,

Interesting, I had forgotten that. The only conclusion can be that even with very very inefficient replicas OU is the norm.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 20, 2009, 10:07:09 PM
Yes but you understand why? The resonance is the key to power amplification, but tapping it from the other side of the spring or pendulum is what makes it free.
If you tapped the energy stored in the pendulum directly there would be no excess energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cherryman on May 20, 2009, 10:17:56 PM
Merg,

Interesting, I had forgotten that. The only conclusion can be that even with very very inefficient replicas OU is the norm.

Ron

:Y  I think a good mechanical OU concept would work with wood, stone.. etc whatever..  Because if it has to do work of meaning. If a little drag, friction or a slight missmeasurement should not be of any problem to show the concept.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 20, 2009, 10:42:15 PM
Hans, your statement above was made in ignorance. I provided you with a link, yet you have not corrected your slanderous remarks.

This does not surprise me as I have read your, “Milkovic’s pendulum is bullshit” remarks on other lists before now.

So, to the best of my abilities, I have done the experiment and published my numbers, which you ignore. With an attitude like that why are you here? Have you no personal integrity to correct your wrongful statements, to honestly investigate new sources of information?

You have certainly exposed yourself and shown your true colors to this list.

Ron

What are you talking about? I have not slandered anyone. I merely said that Ron does not show how the so called "output" was measured. Then I said that if it was measured with a spring scale the results are invalid as the energy gets fed back into the system.

Both statements are correct and based on good science.

I am not the only one that as a result of experiment, measurements and also simulations came up with the conclusion that there is no overunity in the device but a net loss.

Brian Berrett initially thought he had overunity but quickly found out that this was not so. He then just walked away from the whole deal. There have been many others that have tried over the years. Milkovic himself has played with this thing of his for many years and is still pushing it with his finger.

I challenge you to do what others including me have done. Build the device and make some honest measurements and then report what you have found and how it was measured.

Hans von Lieven

Hams von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 20, 2009, 11:25:40 PM
Simulations will not show you this accurately, the best way to do it is to test it for yourself. ((Edit) Sorry I wrote this before I saw that you had replicated it.)
A simple beam with a pendulum or spring attached, both of which will work.

Look at the two extremes of operation, first when it is completely loaded, which means that you attach something so heavy or a work so hard that the beam wont move at all.
Then just remove the load as much as possible and look at the difference.
What do you see?
The relationship between resistance in load and the draining of oscillation has reversed completely.
If you force a wheel to do more work it will slow faster in its oscillation.
If you however turn that wheel into a 2 stage oscillator, and load it at its new output, the opposite will be true. The more you load it, the less energy will be lost in the oscillator itself, just like the pendulum in the milkociv device.

Do you not see these facts as something of importance?
Btw, hints and hints before, all acoustical amplifiers works by the same principle.
Without a resonant chamber all good blues and guitar music would have had to wait until the electrical power amplification era of tubes and transistors arrived. This goes also for any instrument using the phenomena. Now hans, in an energy conservation perspective, would you care to explain how this is possible?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 20, 2009, 11:30:49 PM


I challenge you to do what others including me have done. Build the device and make some honest measurements and then report what you have found and how it was measured.

Hans von Lieven

Hams von Lieven

Alright, I accept your challenge, now read my report

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf

Ron

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 20, 2009, 11:47:56 PM


Sorry Ron, I did not realise this is your report and your machine. Well built, I have no problems with this.

I do not agree with your method of measurement as you do not measure work performed but merely sinusoidal fluctuations in pressure between the lever arm and the couterweight.

If you were to mount two equal weights equidistant on a balance beam and mounted a load cell on either side in the same fashion it would take only a minute amount of energy to move the balance beam but you would get the same results.The sinusoidal characteristic shows the reversal of force direction only and adds up to zero in the end. There is no work performed.

I will draw the experiment for you if you wish.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 20, 2009, 11:55:49 PM

Do you not see these facts as something of importance?
Btw, hints and hints before, all acoustical amplifiers works by the same principle.
Without a resonant chamber all good blues and guitar music would have had to wait until the electrical power amplification era of tubes and transistors arrived. This goes also for any instrument using the phenomena. Now hans, in an energy conservation perspective, would you care to explain how this is possible?

There is no energy gain in a guitar for instance. It is simply a focusing and re-directing of the energy that is there.

Examples are a megaphone (acoustic focusing) or a parabolic mirror (optic focusing) It merely bundles available vibrations and re-directs them. There is NO net gain!

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 21, 2009, 12:14:49 AM
There is no energy gain in a guitar for instance. It is simply a focusing and re-directing of the energy that is there.

Examples are a megaphone (acoustic focusing) or a parabolic mirror (optic focusing) It merely bundles available vibrations and re-directs them. There is NO net gain!

Hans von Lieven

I'm sorry Hans but you are so wrong that you wouldn't believe it!
It is the common thought though that the amplification process in guitar cases and trumpets for example, or really at the core, the resonant chamber, is a process of focusing the sound in one direction.
However this is only the case of an parabolic antenna shape (or a hyperbolic shape) which will focus the sound at one specific point. I guess the only way you will learn this is by doing  a simple experiment as I did when I started to think about this stuff.

The shape of a trumpet does not only focus the small sound coming in, it does also amplify it many times and you can test this with a small headphone ( those you can place in the ear). By first listening to the volume without a trumpet and then place it at the opening of the trumpet, you WILL find that the volume its greatly increased (especially the lower frequencies, depending on the shape of course).

Now, if you are inside a room, point the trumpet in another direction and notice that the volume still remains high. This is not an results of focusing the sound in one direction, because in that case you would have far less volume than what you had even before you used the trumpet.

Also, just like a tuning fork on top of a soundbox magnifies its output many times, or as the strings on a acoustic guitar, the sound waves coming from the mouth will travel inside the resonant chamber of a trumpet and inside create standing waves. This waves will magnify the volume just like spinning a wheel will increase its rate of rotation. However, as opposite to the wheel, doing doing work on the air by transmitting that larger sound volume will not drain the oscillation down to a smaller level (as in the common LC tank for example).
This is again exactly how the Milkociv 2-stage oscillator works.

I'm looking forward to hear your report, and be prepared to be shocked  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 21, 2009, 12:28:36 AM
If you read up on the classical experiment with the tuning forks in any good physics book you will find that I am correct.

Hans
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 21, 2009, 12:46:05 AM
If you read up on the classical experiment with the tuning forks in any good physics book you will find that I am correct.

Hans

According to their explanation of the phenomena, yes. But if you want to apply the conservation of energy theory to a simple tuning fork experiment, first with a sound box, then without one, you will at least have to change some numbers around to make the results sound more "compatible" with current theory.
Its never easy to go against the tide, whether it is the "scientific" establishment or if it is the current religious beliefs at the moment.
......
Hah, you're a Muslim and believe in falsehood, I'm a Christian and know you are wrong and will burn in hell!
......
Dogmas can be a pain in the ass.....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 21, 2009, 12:51:46 AM
OK Ron,

Here is the suggested comparison test. The diagram is self explanatory. The small motor provides the oscillations. Since the system is in balance the input energy is very small. Compare that to the load cell measurements and you will see what I mean.

Prove me wrong, I hope you do. I am not averse to eating crow if it advances our understanding of science.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 21, 2009, 12:53:34 AM
According to their explanation of the phenomena, yes. But if you want to apply the conservation of energy theory to a simple tuning fork experiment, first with a sound box, then without one, you will at least have to change some numbers around to make the results sound more "compatible" with current theory.
Its never easy to go against the tide, whether it is the "scientific" establishment or if it is the current religious beliefs at the moment.
......
Hah, you're a Muslim and believe in falsehood, I'm a Christian and know you are wrong and will burn in hell!
......
Dogmas can be a pain in the ass.....

I am talking about MEASUREMENTS, not beliefs!

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 21, 2009, 01:07:42 AM


If you were to mount two equal weights equidistant on a balance beam and mounted a load cell on either side in the same fashion it would take only a minute amount of energy to move the balance beam but you would get the same results.

Hans von Lieven

Hans,

But if you applied an engine to one side and drove the beam at the same speed and amplitude ... measured the input you would find the work done would be the same as I am showing
in the experiment. Of course it is sinusoidal, do you think the counter weight moves like a square wave?

Ron

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 21, 2009, 01:21:25 AM
No, of course not. I have never seen a true square wave in nature, in fact I doubt it can be created. Abrupt reversal of flows in my view cannot exist.

But that is not the point, I simply maintain that any surplus energy that shows up is an error in measurement as far as this device is concerned.

But please don't let me discourage you, you are a good researcher and builder and I have always had a high opinion of your abilities ever since I saw the first mechanised pendulum of yours published on Milkovic's site.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 21, 2009, 03:08:42 AM

But that is not the point, I simply maintain that any surplus energy that shows up is an error in measurement as far as this device is concerned.

But please don't let me discourage you, you are a good researcher and builder and I have always had a high opinion of your abilities ever since I saw the first mechanised pendulum of yours published on Milkovic's site.

Hans von Lieven

Thank you for the 'sort of' compliment. I am not the least discouraged by you or the other nay sayers on the list. What does slow me down is the cost of " I really need this" parts
and the limited number of hours in a day.

Working with Veljko and crew has been a reward that more than compensates any inconvenience I may suffered along the way. It has been a joy and a positive delight. This is what I want to share with the group. The positive aspect of building,
learning, and the camaraderie of working with great people.

Ron


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 21, 2009, 03:11:32 AM
OK Ron,

Here is the suggested comparison test. The diagram is self explanatory. The small motor provides the oscillations. Since the system is in balance the input energy is very small. Compare that to the load cell measurements and you will see what I mean.

Prove me wrong, I hope you do. I am not averse to eating crow if it advances our understanding of science.

Hans von Lieven

Hans,

If you do the math you will see the fallacy of your setup.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 21, 2009, 03:48:05 AM
The movement of the weight on the "business end" in my model is exactly the same as in Milkovic's setup. It does not matter how the oscillations are produced, it will give the same results. Try it.

All the energy thus generated stays in the system, there is no work being done. A pendulum will show exactly the same variations as long as there is no outside load.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 21, 2009, 01:56:26 PM
I am talking about MEASUREMENTS, not beliefs!

Hans von Lieven

Well you wont find one! Trying to prove conservation of energy wrong is already as controversial as it can get, no serious scientist with a love for his reputation would even consider doing such an experiment, even when it really is as simple as it can get. Yes you can find lots of setups and explanations of Helmholtz resonator in books, but they will only go into the technical stuff related to acoustical sound and reproduction, they will not begin to debate whether or not the large sound out is actually greater than what the driving sound was. If someone would ask them so, they would probably *ASSUME* that yes of course the energy is conserved , because modern science say that's how it is. How could they make an assessment when they aren't even qualified to make such an experiment?

Its time to face it, much of todays knowledge is split of into several medium and small fields which some random people specializes into, and then becomes an expert in. However that expert is still most often a novice in most other fields. This is a big error in todays way of searching for the real combined truth.

And a problem which actually proves that todays theories cannot really be true is that many of them simply aren't possible to combine. In the future, when we (man) finally make the grand unified theory which can combine all experienced phenomena into one logical theory, then we KNOW that we got it right.

But be me guess, try search through some books and the Internet to find the answer, do everything you can but maybe the simplest experiment:  See if sound actually can be amplified in resonant tubes and chambers, as which I claim is the case with most instruments today.
You got an electric guitar? Well slap the strings one time first. Then place then neck against something made out of wood, a door perhaps. Now slap the strings again. Can you hear the volume increase.
Would you care to explain it?  Or are you simply denying it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 21, 2009, 04:44:35 PM
The movement of the weight on the "business end" in my model is exactly the same as in Milkovic's setup. It does not matter how the oscillations are produced, it will give the same results. Try it.

Hans von Lieven

I will...but later
---------------
”All the energy thus generated stays in the system, there is no work being done”,
another negative statement. I was wondering the differences between us and that is the most obvious, I can dream.

I can visualize and build mechanical devises in my head, not always correctly but then a pencil sketch to get the dimensions and several models to bring it to fruition: but always based on the dream.

Von Braun was just such a person. He wore his dream on his sleeve. He went to incredible lengths, overcoming impossible odds to bring his dream to fruition. For he, in essence, went to the moon. He wrote articles in Popular Science to inspire other people. He was a positive person.

How sad then that you will be remembered as “Mr No”, the man who knows nothing will work: this is not true in the case of the pendulum. Work can be done by the pendulum: it has been shown many times. The problem is your basic conception is flawed and you refuse to re-examine or re-view.

The pendulum is a challenge. It has many limitations, yet were the work of Constantino or Würth to be integrated with the pendulum then this picture could change dramatically.
I am soldiering along at the boundaries of my capabilities, lacking the smarts to do this myself. But what if a man of your capabilities were to take on this challenge?

Ron


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on May 21, 2009, 07:08:37 PM
Ron wrote;
Quote
t”All the energy thus generated stays in the system, there is no work being done”, another negative statement. I was wondering the differences between us and that is the most obvious, I can dream.

I am not an avid poster here, but every once in a while something catches my attention.

'Although there may not be any viable output, 'work' is being done. It may only be the displacement of mass by the lever being displaced in its up and down motion. This is considered work. question; did not Milkovic substantiate this by pumping water?
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~vawter/PhysicsNet/Topics/Work/DefinitionWork.html

Quote
Von Braun was just such a person. He wore his dream on his sleeve. He went to incredible lengths, overcoming impossible odds to bring his dream to fruition. For he, in essence, went to the moon. He wrote articles in Popular Science to inspire other people. He was a positive person.

I had the privilege of meeting the man in 1958, I attended a seminar he gave on missile guidance systems used in that era. Somewhere around here I have a 1959 edition of 'Electronics Illustrated' where he was interviewed on the subject.

Von Braun was a man with an outgoing personality of the kind I have never met. He was my inspiration, I continued correspondence with him for a short time via his secretary regarding the use of magnets employed in a gyroscope/pendulum guidance sensor.   

Ralph     

   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 21, 2009, 08:40:27 PM

In my article...

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf

I see I have made an error where I say "work done"  but as the footnote leads to the proper term, "power" there should have been no misunderstanding, but sorry if this has caused any confusion.

To define my usage of the nomenclature then...
-----------------------------------------------

When a force acts upon an object to cause a displacement of the object, it is said that work was done upon the object.

Work is a force acting upon an object to cause a displacement.

An object which possesses mechanical energy is able to do work. In fact, mechanical energy is often defined as the ability to do work. Any object which possesses mechanical energy - whether it be in the form of potential energy or kinetic energy - is able to do work. That is, its mechanical energy enables that object to apply a force to another object in order to cause it to be displaced.

Power is the rate at which work is done. It is the work/time ratio.

The standard metric unit of power is the Watt. As is implied by the equation for power, a unit of power is equivalent to a unit of work divided by a unit of time. Thus, a Watt is equivalent to a Joule/second. For historical reasons, the horsepower is occasionally used to describe the power delivered by a machine. One horsepower is equivalent to approximately 746 Watts.

Regards

Ron

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 22, 2009, 12:07:15 AM
Sorry Ron, but this is not quite correct.

Forces that act inside a closed system stay in the system and are not called work. In order to qualify as work the force must act upon something outside the system.

That is why a pendulum on its own does NOT do any work until it drives something, in spite of the force fluctuations.

@ Ralph

Yes, pumping water is work. The weight going up and down at the end of a balance beam is not!

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 22, 2009, 04:03:58 AM
Sorry Ron, but this is not quite correct.

Forces that act inside a closed system stay in the system and are not called work. In order to qualify as work the force must act upon something outside the system.


Hans von Lieven

"The output has nothing to do with whether a system is closed. Systems without output are non-knowable through observation from the outside"

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 22, 2009, 04:19:44 AM
Sorry Ron, but this is not quite correct.

That is why a pendulum on its own does NOT do any work until it drives something, in spite of the force fluctuations.

Yes, pumping water is work. The weight going up and down at the end of a balance beam is not!

Hans von Lieven

"An object which possesses mechanical energy is able to do work".

The pendulum is the system that possesses mechanical energy. The force acts on the hammer to displace it. The hammer is outside of the system.

Ron

"It was my intention to strain gauge Mk 5.3 (4) to see the input and output relation-ship; the output to be measured between the secondary arm and the counter weight, as in a Veljko Milkovic pendulum in hammer mode"


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 22, 2009, 06:29:10 AM

I see I have made an error where I say "work done"  but as the footnote leads to the proper term, "power" there should have been no misunderstanding, but sorry if this has caused any confusion.

ok
very good
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 22, 2009, 06:31:40 AM
"An object which possesses mechanical energy is able to do work".



but this work is very difficult to use !!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on May 22, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
Gentlman,

Please, I just walked away from a similar debate at Bessler.com...

The term 'work' is clearly defined as moving or displacing a mass, It does not state whether it be confined or not. Time is not accountable in doing work.

This is like telling me that if I lift up my filing cabinet and carry it to the other side of my confined office space that I did not do any 'work'

IMO you must draw a line between working and work accomplished. A hovering helicopter not moving is not doing any work yet the engine and blades are moving air which is a mass and work is being done. Yet after the helicopter does move on and the air returns to its ambient state then with Hans view no work was done.

A pendulum swinging is mass in motion and is a prime example of work being done as outside forces are required to osculate the pendulum, hence a mechanical source of work is accomplished.  Work is related to the distance a force moves an object and not the time it takes to move the object. Nor is their any definition stating that the mass must remain in a displaced area to consider that work was done.

The weight going up and down at the end of a balance beam is a mass in motion, it is being 'displaced' and requires a force to drive it. This is called 'work', the beam is not balanced when in motion just as the pendulum is said to be balanced when static. A pendulum requires three forces to operate, gravity  kinetic and mechanical.

 A Force does no work unless the system is free to move "along the direction" of the Force applied. When a Force and the object's displacement are perpendicular, the work done by the force is zero. A pendulum bob loses its force at point of acclimation.

Pendulums left swinging do 'work', they just do not accomplish any work over a period of time which is not part of the equation. Pendulums have been driving escapements in clocks for over 300 years, so there should be no question as whether they perform work.
 
Ralph
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 22, 2009, 07:33:12 AM

This is like telling me that if I lift up my filing cabinet and carry it to the other side of my confined office space that I did not do any 'work'


YES you are doing work ...
but is it useful ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on May 22, 2009, 09:29:45 AM
...
This is a work in progress that I have shared with you and I am surprised that no one has pointed out this ... the inefficiency of the solenoid drive... less than 30%.  So the conclusion should be, wow, even with less than a 30% input drive the machine is still over unity!
...

There is neither theoretical evidence nor experimental evidence for OU.
The only evidence for OU is a looped device with a self maintaining movement. We don't have one.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 22, 2009, 01:33:33 PM
There is neither theoretical evidence nor experimental evidence for OU.
The only evidence for OU is a looped device with a self maintaining movement. We don't have one.

I don't agree, of course a looping free energy machine would be non-disputable, but a machine giving out the double or more energy than you put in is free energy. Over unity does not exist, so you can just forget about searching for it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 22, 2009, 04:41:09 PM
ok
very good

The original has been corrected,

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 22, 2009, 04:42:53 PM

but this work is very difficult to use !!!

Tell me about it!  LOL

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 22, 2009, 04:50:44 PM
Gentlman,

Please, I just walked away from a similar debate at Bessler.com...

The term 'work' is clearly defined as moving or displacing a mass, It does not state whether it be confined or not. Time is not accountable in doing work.

This is like telling me that if I lift up my filing cabinet and carry it to the other side of my confined office space that I did not do any 'work'

snip
 
Ralph

Excellent post Ralph, as usual, always nice to hear from someone who has hands on experience... it is the great educator.

Just a small correction though... picking up the file cabinet is work, but carrying it across the room is not, does sound silly!

Didn't get around to commenting on your previous post about
Werner Von Braun... what a treat... yes he was an outstanding achiever, what luck to actually have met him, a real hands on guy.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 22, 2009, 04:59:54 PM
There is neither theoretical evidence nor experimental evidence for OU.
The only evidence for OU is a looped device with a self maintaining movement. We don't have one.

exnihiloest,

If you will note there was no mention in my article of OU. The only reference was to co-efficiency  of performance, (COP).

Heat pumps have a COP of 3.1 for example and there is no clamor that they be looped?

Lets not muddy the waters here with such inappropriate claims that the pendulum be looped before anyone will believe it.

Ron




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 22, 2009, 05:27:25 PM
exnihiloest,

If you will note there was no mention in my article of OU. The only reference was to co-efficiency  of performance, (COP).

Heat pumps have a COP of 3.1 for example and there is no clamor that they be looped?

Lets not muddy the waters here with such inappropriate claims that the pendulum be looped before anyone will believe it.

Ron

sorry ron

but you have to learn more about physics
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 22, 2009, 05:32:51 PM
Tell me about it!  LOL

Ron

good luck in your search ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 22, 2009, 05:46:48 PM
sorry ron

but you have to learn more about physics

I have been!  always willing to learn. Thats why I like poking sticks through the bars at the bear (Hans) because then I have to study to find out out what he said.

I am interested in any point you want to bring up...?

Ron


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 22, 2009, 05:52:38 PM
I have been!  always willing to learn. Thats why I like poking sticks through the bars at the bear (Hans) because then I have to study to find out out what he said.

I am interested in any point you want to bring up...?

Ron

sorry ron , too much time for me
ask to Hans
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 22, 2009, 07:20:37 PM
sorry ron , too much time for me
ask to Hans

I understand that all too well.

But any point that you feel uncomfortable with is a good point to bring forward... any time.

Good talking with you.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 23, 2009, 12:38:12 AM
Sorry Ron, but this is not quite correct.

Hans von Lieven

Hans, is there any chance I could get an autographed copy of your new book? That was pretty funny... :D

Ron


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 23, 2009, 01:26:01 AM
There is a big difference between able to do work and doing work. Able to do work is called potential energy. This is not the same as doing work. In your measurements you are not expending any energy and keep counting the same potential energy over and over again.

Hans von Lieven

BTW: No book but http://keelytech.com will have to do
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 23, 2009, 02:55:53 AM
Quote
author=hansvonlieven

Hans von Lieven

BTW: No book but http://keelytech.com will have to do


Thanks for the link Hans, though I had my heart set on the
mylow book, lol

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 23, 2009, 05:14:51 PM
There is a big difference between able to do work and doing work. Able to do work is called potential energy. This is not the same as doing work. In your measurements you are not expending any energy and keep counting the same potential energy over and over again.

Hans von Lieven


My dear professor No,

Not so.

I know what potential energy is, a pendulum in oporation by itself. In one of my examples I gave with the pendulum connected to a lever, fulcrumed at the mid point, this potential energy is transferred through to the other end of the arm and can be felt, observed, measured as a force. This is potential energy.

However when this PE, at the end of the secondary arm is allowed to displace a mas, work is done. You admit that work is done when this PE is allowed to displace a given mas of water, yet I am afraid you lost me when you state that when this same PE, if allowed to displace an equivalent mas of cast iron,  is not doing work? Is there a problem with your logic?

To avoid this sin wave, cycling problem you seem to have, let’s just take one .8 second frame for reference…the maintenance pulse required to maintain the pendulum in a steady state, from my exporiment, is 1.2499 Foot force. The output is 5.833 Foot force.

(1 Foot Force {foot pound} = 1.3558 Nm)

The pendulum’s potential energy has been converted to work at the end of the secondary arm in a favorable ratio of 4.66:1.

Ron

mis spel'ng to defeet the dreaded blue adds, lol
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 24, 2009, 12:56:38 AM
Ron, I think Hans's main disagreement with you is that hitting a piece of iron with an hammer is not enough to conclude that the machine is doing actual work. His and others view is that energy will only be reflected back into the oscillation and thereby aid the pendulums oscillation.
I do not really agree with this because a lot of energy is lost from the hammer when it hits the iron or what ever you used, both as heat, vibration and sound. This will also happen very fast several times while the hammer is touching the ground, as it will be reflected back and fourth again, with an increasingly large frequency (just like a coin just before it looses its vibration completely when flipped on a surface).

Anyway, that impressively well build machine you have should and deserves to be connected to a simple and efficient load, like a water pump or maybe a compressor (as another guy suggested earlier).
The only way to shut up the critics completely without closing the loop is to make it do some useful and practical work. I really want to see yours do it  :)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 24, 2009, 03:28:25 AM
Ron, I think Hans's main disagreement with you is that hitting a piece of iron with an hammer is not enough to conclude that the machine is doing actual work. His and others view is that energy will only be reflected back into the oscillation and thereby aid the pendulums oscillation.
I do not really agree with this because a lot of energy is lost from the hammer when it hits the iron or what ever you used, both as heat, vibration and sound. This will also happen very fast several times while the hammer is touching the ground, as it will be reflected back and fourth again, with an increasingly large frequency (just like a coin just before it looses its vibration completely when flipped on a surface).

Anyway, that impressively well build machine you have should and deserves to be connected to a simple and efficient load, like a water pump or maybe a compressor (as another guy suggested earlier).
The only way to shut up the critics completely without closing the loop is to make it do some useful and practical work. I really want to see yours do it  :)

This has already been done in the flashlight pendulum and the water pump pendulum, so I felt no need to go there.

The path I was pursuing was that of understanding where the force originated, its strength, and how best to utilize it.

Hans main disagreement with me is not that at all, rather he has stated that Milkovic's pendulum is bullsh*t. If you remember he trashed my study without even reading it... and has never bothered to retract his erroneous statement.
Nothing that I could do or present would change his opinion.

 So I would assume that most people on here are fans and would like to see this pendulum thing succeed. We are doing our best.

Ron
 


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on May 24, 2009, 05:00:43 AM
ABHammer (Alan) is a professional builder of 14th century armor. He strikes metal with a hammer reshaping it and it is called work. Tell him it is not work and see what kind of reply you get!

Ralph
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 24, 2009, 05:23:25 AM
Hitting a piece of iron with a hammer IS doing work. Ron's device does not do that. There is NO interaction with anything outside his system. If his counterweight was to actually strike something it would be a totally different set of measurements.

Besides, it is not true that I did not read Ron's report. I have simply disagreed with his method of measurement from the start and I still do.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on May 24, 2009, 05:42:20 AM
Hello Ron,

I have a great idea! stick your middle finger between the lever end and the anvil. If it causes biological discomfort such as pain, swelling, and turns black and blue, then you can hold up that middle finger and say; see it does do work. :-*

Ralph

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 24, 2009, 10:04:13 AM
Yes it will do work then Ralph, just the weight going up and down does no such thing in a balanced system.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fritz on May 24, 2009, 03:38:08 PM
1) The thing can be charged up with kinetic/potential energy
2) The thing consumes energy and releases energy
3) The thing needs certain input power and outputs certain input power

Because the thing is charged up with kinetic energy - the peak power released can be a multiple of the input power or even infinite until the kinetic energy stored is consumed.

so what ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 24, 2009, 03:44:12 PM
@Hans

Well he says its in hammer mode, so I guess its hammering the wood we see in the picture, and in that case he is doing REAL work. There is no simple reflection of energy that will happen here when gravity also continues to pull down the hammer, it will loose most of its energy before the next pull of the pendulum forces it up again.

Btw Hans I've haven't heard you reply about the acoustics yet, does that mean that I won  ;D ;D ;D  Just kidding!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 24, 2009, 05:06:07 PM

Well he says its in hammer mode, so I guess its hammering the wood we see in the picture,

If you read the report I do state that I did not let the hammer strike the anvil. The simple reason being that a 'binocular' load cell is two parallel arms similar to a tuning fork. In letting it strike puts the load cell into a resonance that destroys the readability of the reading. But I did have it in hammer mode
before and after that reading. The wood is merely a guide to stop the hammer from swinging sideways. The center bolt goes all the way through and strikes the metal plate below.

See the graph below and you can see the difficulty of extracting any meaning in strike mode. Nevertheless, the hammer is doing work whether it hits something or not, it is the displacement of mass over distance.

Ron

PS: one of those days... I had inadvertently triggered the pendulum at the wrong moment and overloaded the the red load cell thus it is reading plus 2.5 volts or so... the saved graph didn't print all the way to the bottom ... and it was the only one I had saved...plus the realization this wasn't going to work unless I went to low pass filtering on the sensor amps...




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 24, 2009, 05:33:14 PM

Besides, it is not true that I did not read Ron's report.

Hans von Lieven

Oh, so you read the report, then made up a lie…

“My guess is it was done with a spring scale, in which case most of the energy would have been fed back into the system.”


Do you not think that this will lower your credibility to zero?

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 24, 2009, 05:43:27 PM
snip
Because the thing is charged up with kinetic energy - the peak power released can be a multiple of the input power or even infinite until the kinetic energy stored is consumed.

so what ?

fritz,

Because this leads to an understanding of the forces, "where they were", "when they first knew" etc, and how best to lead them out... to at some point do useful work. Put your thinking cap on and tell us how best to achieve this.

Ron

I would like to offer an explanation for my paper. In looking at Veljko's hammer models and in particular Raymond Head's video we see the hand providing an input while the output lifts a weight. The question in my mind was what was the relationship between these two forces? 

Thus my experimint was setup to compare these two working forces and give some idea of the relationship (ratio). I believe this is clearly stated in my paper. It is not a demonstration of a working practical machine as some have erroneously concluded. It is a research machine, pure and simple.

The answer?  "4.6:1",

for every "1 unit" from the hand, the machine provides "4.6 units" out. (on the Mk 5.3 specifically)



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 24, 2009, 09:49:58 PM
Oh, so you read the report, then made up a lie…

“My guess is it was done with a spring scale, in which case most of the energy would have been fed back into the system.”


Do you not think that this will lower your credibility to zero?

Ron

No, I didn't lie. Having not dismantled your probes I can only guess how they are constructed. Logic dictates that when the probe measures the forces it has to generate some sort of opposing force in reaction to make measurement possible. The most likely scenario is that some spring mechanism inside re-sets the probe when the forces fluctuate. This spring, like it or not, stores energy that is fed back into the system as the spring relaxes.

This is what I have been talking about all along.

Hans von Lieven


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 25, 2009, 12:19:50 AM
No, I didn't lie. Having not dismantled your probes I can only guess how they are constructed. Logic dictates that when the probe measures the forces it has to generate some sort of opposing force in reaction to make measurement possible. The most likely scenario is that some spring mechanism inside re-sets the probe when the forces fluctuate. This spring, like it or not, stores energy that is fed back into the system as the spring relaxes.

This is what I have been talking about all along.

Hans von Lieven

Holy sh*t Hans, I hadn't thought of that. The load cell under a 100 pound load deflects .019 inches (,5 mm) so for the 40 pound load it must deflect .0076 thou, wow all the energy stored in this tiny space, hard to believe, wonder if I could patent this?
The "Ron Pugh battery" sounds great! Thanks mon...

Ron

Edit: Oh dear, I just realized I was using the same type of load cell on the input so the 12 pound input reading was just being absorbed in the cell and my actual reading would be lucky to reach 1 or 2 pounds... gosh, some days I just can't win... :'(


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 25, 2009, 12:34:30 AM
The strain guage MUST absorb the energy in order to measure it. The degree of deflection is immaterial as long as it can be measured.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 25, 2009, 04:19:34 AM
The strain guage MUST absorb the energy in order to measure it. The degree of deflection is immaterial as long as it can be measured.

Hans von Lieven

A totally bizarre statement. I can find nothing in the literature to support such a a hypothesis ....? only this...

Quote, "Strain gauge load cells and force transducers are available suitable for nominal loads from 5 G or 0.05 N up to 1000 tonnes or 10 MN. They are suitable for measuring both static and dynamic tension and compression forces to a high degree of accuracy"

Ron

Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing.
 
    Wernher von Braun

I have learned to use the word 'impossible' with the greatest caution.
   
    Wernher von Braun
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 29, 2009, 11:08:51 PM
OK Ron,

Here is the suggested comparison test. The diagram is self explanatory. The small motor provides the oscillations. Since the system is in balance the input energy is very small. Compare that to the load cell measurements and you will see what I mean.

Prove me wrong, I hope you do. I am not averse to eating crow if it advances our understanding of science.

Hans von Lieven

I did a partial test, as you had suggested. I just measured the input to the beam. The beam was in balance, the pendulum restricted to the down position.

The motor draws 18.928 watts unloaded and 25.894 watts operating the beam, thus say 7 watts to run the beam.

This is midway between the numbers I posted for the pendulum draw when running the beam. As I have stated that the solen oid drive is less than 30% efficient, the results are no surprise to me.

I will let my previous numbers stand for the load cell measurements between the arm and the hammer.

What this experi ment might suggest is that the balance beam acts as a force multiplier.

Ron

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 29, 2009, 11:32:59 PM
A totally bizarre statement. I can find nothing in the literature to support such a a hypothesis ....? only this...

Quote, "Strain gauge load cells and force transducers are available suitable for nominal loads from 5 G or 0.05 N up to 1000 tonnes or 10 MN. They are suitable for measuring both static and dynamic tension and compression forces to a high degree of accuracy"

Ron


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A strain gauge (alternatively: strain gage) is a device used to measure the strain of an object. Invented by Edward E. Simmons and Arthur C. Ruge in 1938, the most common type of strain gauge consists of an insulating flexible backing which supports a metallic foil pattern. The gauge is attached to the object by a suitable adhesive, such as cyanoacrylate.

As the object is deformed, the foil is deformed, causing its electrical resistance to change. This resistance change, usually measured using a Wheatstone bridge, is related to the strain by the quantity known as the gauge factor.

This deformation stores the energy applied and acts like a spring. This energy has to be released somehow for the guage to be able to reset. In your setup this energy is fed back into the system and therefore cannot be considered output or work done.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fritz on May 29, 2009, 11:58:57 PM
In the end the existence of female joggers proves that coupled oscillations are not OU - and no work is performed on movement of oscillating mass.
Otherwise it would hurt like hell.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 30, 2009, 07:30:16 PM
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A strain gauge (alternatively: strain gage) is a device used to measure the strain of an object. Invented by Edward E. Simmons and Arthur C. Ruge in 1938, the most common type of strain gauge consists of an insulating flexible backing which supports a metallic foil pattern. The gauge is attached to the object by a suitable adhesive, such as cyanoacrylate.

As the object is deformed, the foil is deformed, causing its electrical resistance to change. This resistance change, usually measured using a Wheatstone bridge, is related to the strain by the quantity known as the gauge factor.

This deformation stores the energy applied and acts like a spring. This energy has to be released somehow for the guage to be able to reset. In your setup this energy is fed back into the system and therefore cannot be considered output or work done.

Hans von Lieven

Hans,

I am well aware how strain gauges operate. But you know very well that ‘work done’ is the displacement of a mass. That is, the mass/weight has to be displaced over a distance.

The distance that the mass is displaced in a strain gauge load cell is a minute distance, therefore little or no work can be said to have been done in the gauge. The idea that the gauge absorbs and then releases all the work, as observed in the experiment, and thus negates the experiment, is absurd. Further, the strain gauge load cell is calibrated before use to eliminate any tiny error that may have arisen from that quarter.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 30, 2009, 09:48:33 PM


This deformation stores the energy applied and acts like a spring. This energy has to be released somehow for the guage to be able to reset. In your setup this energy is fed back into the system and therefore cannot be considered output or work done.

Hans von Lieven

Take a pound of butter and place it slowly on a kitchen spring scale. Observe that it weighs one pound. At no time does the spring scale make it weigh any less or any more.

Now have this same pound of butter drop onto the scale. If you are quick then you could estimate that the butter weighed 1 ¼ pounds; but only an estimate because the mass of the scale platform and the fact that the resistance of the spring travel was actually slowing down the butter in its final moments, leads to certain inaccuracies.

How to achieve greater accuracy? Reduce the mass of the scale platform to practically zero and the distance that the falling mass was allowed to travel to practically zero, in its recorded arrest. Voila, a strain gauge load cell.

But does a spring necessarily negate force measurements? No. Take the act of bungee jumping, the force of gravity is known, the persons weight is known and the resilience of the chords is known, to such accuracy that the person can have just his forehead touch the water. One could easily work backwards by observing the stopping point and from that, deduce the person’s weight.

So even If I had used a bungee chord to do my experiment it would not be invalidated on the grounds that it was a spring.

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 30, 2009, 09:58:55 PM
Do the following experiment. Just suspend a pendulum from the strain guage and let go. You will get the same sort of readings. You cannot tell me the pendulum is doing work.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 31, 2009, 12:25:05 AM
Do the following experiment. Just suspend a pendulum from the strain guage and let go. You will get the same sort of readings. You cannot tell me the pendulum is doing work.

Hans von Lieven

I never said that setup did

Ron
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: hansvonlieven on May 31, 2009, 12:47:01 AM
Of course not, but it will give you the same measurement data as your setup. So, what are you really measuring?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: i_ron on May 31, 2009, 04:57:03 PM
Of course not, but it will give you the same measurement data as your setup. So, what are you really measuring?

Hans von Lieven

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mdAvdPhT4&feature=related
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Inquorate on June 01, 2009, 01:41:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YRUDd0hyRI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRPMZQAPQ50

using veljko molkovic's principles to make a gravity wheel; experiments and progress

also, check this guy's video out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6bE9TzetSA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 10, 2009, 05:37:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mdAvdPhT4&feature=related

Excellent video - you should conduct the same experiment with Milkovic's pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: persume on June 11, 2009, 03:18:28 AM
Hans,

I am well aware how strain gauges operate. But you know very well that ‘work done’ is the displacement of a mass. That is, the mass/weight has to be displaced over a distance.

i_ron work is the displacement of mass over distance AGAINST resistance. That last part is very important.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on June 11, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
i_ron work is the displacement of mass over distance AGAINST resistance. That last part is very important.


Yes "distance AGAINST resistance" !
it is necessary to load the system !!

daniel
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on June 11, 2009, 02:36:03 PM
Hello to everyone, I'm Andrea from Italy. I've tried to to demonstrate the excess of energy in the Milkovic's system: look at my channel 
 http://www.youtube.com/user/babarlizia
the videos "Pendolo Bifase" 1, 2 and 3. In the explanation of every video clip there is the calculus of input and output. Every video clip has an explanation in Italian and, then, it's translated in English. Hope I've not make too many errors  :)
Please, if any think that there are errors in the calculus, tell me you are welcome.
Best Regards to all!
Andrea
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on June 11, 2009, 02:50:04 PM
Hello to everyone, I'm Andrea from Italy. I've tried to to demonstrate the excess of energy in the Milkovic's system: look at my channel 
 http://www.youtube.com/user/babarlizia
the videos "Pendolo Bifase" 1, 2 and 3. In the explanation of every video clip there is the calculus of input and output. Every video clip has an explanation in Italian and, then, it's translated in English. Hope I've not make too many errors  :)
Please, if any think that there are errors in the calculus, tell me you are welcome.
Best Regards to all!
Andrea

good
but where is the math ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on June 11, 2009, 03:02:03 PM
@tagor: the math is in the descriptions to the videos.
@andrea: It seems that you don't realize that what is lifted up, also comes back down, RETURNING the energy (or most of it) that it took to lift it, back to the system. So your input-output calculations are incorrect for this reason. The output energy cannot be calculated by simply summing the heights to which the weights are lifted.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on June 11, 2009, 03:52:26 PM
Its true, as long as you don't dissipate that energy somehow it will only be stored as momentum in the setup, a little bit like the flywheel effect.

Do like I did, connect the heavy hammer end to a bicycle pump, this way you can store the energy and easily regulate how much resistance the hammer meets by regulating the pressure stored.

This can also advance your setup further to a possible self-sustaining mechanism, I myself haven't reached that far yet but keep trying  ;)

Naboo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on June 11, 2009, 08:33:14 PM
Its true, as long as you don't dissipate that energy somehow it will only be stored as momentum in the setup, a little bit like the flywheel effect.

Do like I did, connect the heavy hammer end to a bicycle pump, this way you can store the energy and easily regulate how much resistance the hammer meets by regulating the pressure stored.

This can also advance your setup further to a possible self-sustaining mechanism, I myself haven't reached that far yet but keep trying  ;)

Naboo

I have suggested the "bicycle pump" idea several times to the Milkovic researchers. The pneumatic pumps can function on both directional strokes of the output end, regardless of magnitude of stroke or timing of stroke. And the compressed air or gas can be efficiently stored and transported, and a pneumatic cylinder can be used on the input end to actuate the system. And losses and energy transfer in pneumatic systems are well-understood.

Of course, if you use this system it will become very clear very quickly that the Milkovic oscillator is in no way over-unity at all, much less "12 times more output than input."

Which is why, after all is said and done, the "researchers" won't use this system to test or evaluate their chaotic pendulum oscillator systems.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on June 11, 2009, 08:50:49 PM
Another statement combined with what you said:

When all is said and done, the first will be the last  :)

I'm not a Christian at all, but there is some serious logic in the original message....

Naboo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 11, 2009, 10:02:13 PM
Hello to everyone, I'm Andrea from Italy. I've tried to to demonstrate the excess of energy in the Milkovic's system: look at my channel 
 http://www.youtube.com/user/babarlizia
the videos "Pendolo Bifase" 1, 2 and 3. In the explanation of every video clip there is the calculus of input and output. Every video clip has an explanation in Italian and, then, it's translated in English. Hope I've not make too many errors  :)
Please, if any think that there are errors in the calculus, tell me you are welcome.
Best Regards to all!
Andrea
Congratulations for the experiments and videos.

We have had the similar methodology for input/output measurement:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf

and later after the re-calculation of above results we got the correct output measurement (at the end of page 11 + page 12):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf#page=11
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on June 12, 2009, 07:03:59 AM
Congratulations for the experiments and videos.

We have had the similar methodology for input/output measurement:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Analysis_Jovan_Bebic_2-measuring.pdf

and later after the re-calculation of above results we got the correct output measurement (at the end of page 11 + page 12):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf#page=11

I like much of what you say, but I cannot believe you are buying into the inertial propulsion cart.  Can't you see that Milkovic is simply using friction to retard the gentler reaction force?  The forward thrust is quick, while the reverse is slow, hence the forward motion.

In space, with no friction, such a method would be impossible, so your proposed method for the astronaut to propel himself by moving weights back and forth has no chance of working.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 12, 2009, 03:23:45 PM

Yes "distance AGAINST resistance" !
it is necessary to load the system !!

daniel

air resistance is the load?!

@i_ron: simply put your output hammer in the bucket of water and you will get water (fluid resistance) as the load :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on June 12, 2009, 06:15:37 PM
@i_ron: simply put your output hammer in the bucket of water and you will get water (fluid resistance) as the load :)

yes if he pump water = it is real work
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on June 12, 2009, 06:46:04 PM
yes if he pump water = it is real work

It is real work non the less, the fluid will make friction which the machine must work against.
It is just not useful work but it will prove the point.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 17, 2009, 07:26:29 PM
It is real work non the less, the fluid will make friction which the machine must work against.
It is just not useful work but it will prove the point.

what about hammering? he is lifting up the weight + doing the work by hammering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on June 17, 2009, 07:46:28 PM
what about hammering? he is lifting up the weight + doing the work by hammering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8

Only if the target absorbs some or all of the kinetic energy in the hammer, if it is a spring type mechanism most of the energy would be reflected and thus the energy used to lift the hammer would not be a true measurement for power input. Just to be clear, smashing a hammer on stiff a object would cause much of the stored kinetic energy to be transfered, even if the hammer is mounted on a shaft with an equal weight on the other side, so it is far from an ideal spring and thus usable as a load.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on June 18, 2009, 01:47:52 AM
I like much of what you say, but I cannot believe you are buying into the inertial propulsion cart.  Can't you see that Milkovic is simply using friction to retard the gentler reaction force?  The forward thrust is quick, while the reverse is slow, hence the forward motion.

In space, with no friction, such a method would be impossible, so your proposed method for the astronaut to propel himself by moving weights back and forth has no chance of working.

there is still friction in space. just not much around the craft being moved. the moving parts of the device will still incur friction between the metals.
 the real problem with that type of propulsion in space is you have no inertial reference, it would be like triyng to move the space shuttle, by having the astronauts push on an inner wall of the craft.
the other is the lack of gravity which makes the pendulum operate....

According to pendulum physics, the force at angle=0 from verticle increases with mass and decreases with armerature length.  therefore, maximum force-gain would be achieved with a heavy weight on a short arm.
the other half of the force equation is the leverage-factor of the second fulcrum. ( big lever in top)
The key thing to note here is that this [max] force is short lived, with very little momentum. Great for pumping water or hammering something into oblivion - but not so great for things like steady, continious motion, or generating electricity.

For more momentum (which translates into torque), a heavier weight on a longer armerature might be desirable. This provides for a longer "stroke time", and thus more monentum from the weight is translated in the verticle direction. what im calling the stroke time here is the tiny pause at bottom-dead center, when the horizontal force switches direction, during which the verticle force maxes out and actuates the upper lever. This might be better for operating a generator or driving a  wind-up pendulum-train.


p.s. - if you guys want known physics documentation on this set-up, look at the specs for Milkovich's water pumps. it should have everything there you need to know. i.e. weight of pendulum, lift distance,  how much water it pumps from varying well depths. ect...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on June 23, 2009, 08:31:50 PM

Great thing. I didnt saw something like this soon.
Like it.  :)
It can change the world. Interesting.
Everything is practically and technically feasible. Support your work
   
Why close science in the box?    
Then cant be developed. This is much better for all
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on June 27, 2009, 12:29:30 AM
Could someone please post a correct calculation of energy from an experiment with one of these systems?  I tried reading the pdf someone posted but it is hard to follow since it doesn't detail the experiment very well, I'm not sure what "energy for third 32 amplitudes" means?  Is he taking an average of 32 runs at the third swing? 

This device is what is called a "parametric oscillator".  Using Milkovic's device, the lever mass oscillates at twice the frequency of the pendulum.  By definition, when this happens in a parametric system, energy is absorbed at a rate proportional to what the system already has.  So, although letting the pendulum swing down will give you the correct value of energy, it defeats the purpose of the device. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on June 27, 2009, 05:19:07 AM
Could someone please post a correct calculation of energy from an experiment with one of these systems?  I tried reading the pdf someone posted but it is hard to follow since it doesn't detail the experiment very well, I'm not sure what "energy for third 32 amplitudes" means?  Is he taking an average of 32 runs at the third swing? 

This device is what is called a "parametric oscillator".  Using Milkovic's device, the lever mass oscillates at twice the frequency of the pendulum.  By definition, when this happens in a parametric system, energy is absorbed at a rate proportional to what the system already has.  So, although letting the pendulum swing down will give you the correct value of energy, it defeats the purpose of the device.

Here's a starting point (scroll down for the kinematic calculations):
http://physlab.net/dbl_pendulum.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on June 27, 2009, 06:21:19 AM
@TinselKoala

I don't think a double pendulum describes this device very well.

The design is more closely related to this I do believe:
http://www.physics.uoguelph.ca/applets/Intro_physics/kisalev/java/pend2/index.html

Apparently in the link you gave, one page over is a spring pendulum.  This is the simplest parametric oscillator.  Milkovic's device functions similar to when you let the spring pendulum fall in such a way that it makes a U (not chaotically like when you first see the demo). 

I think gravity does the parametric pumping, all the operator must do is keep the pendulum swinging.  This device has two regimes, without a load on the lever it acts as a parametric pendulum, but if the lever is overloaded (so that it can't move), the system operates as a standard pendulum.  Someone has to apply an initial energy but then it takes every little to keep it going.  Yet because of gravity, the lever tends to continue to "reuse" the initial input. 

I'm still trying to learn more about parametric oscillators.  A child on a swing is one example, the other examples I've seen are using a rope to lengthen a pendulum's rod as it swings down then shorten the rod as it goes up.  Milkovic applies the technique backwards.  He uses centrifugal force of the pendulum's kinetic energy to lift the lever up - which i think is much more clever since now all the operator must do is keep replacing the leakage energy in the pendulum (otherwise it "radiates" away due to pivot friction and wind resistance). 

Once the pendulum is in motion, if you could apply a stronger force to the lever, so that as the pendulum is falling downward you cause the pivot point to raise up, you can damp the pendulum's movement.  But just think what that force would have to be?  Plus, loads on the lever wouldn't do that anyway.  They will try to stop its movement, not retard it in the opposite direction.  Thus, the loaded lever should not be able to damp the pendulum.  An overloaded lever would cause the pendulum to move out of the parametric regime and function as a simple pendulum. 

So energy in the system may be very different from the point of view of where you stand.  I think so far BOTH analysis are correct.  If you look at only the energy required to keep the pendulum swinging verses the energy output, you will have overunity.  However, if you take into account the INITIAL energy it took to place the pendulum at a certain amplitude PLUS the required leakage reducing energy, you should find the system operates below unity (because of losses).

But like I said earlier, letting the pendulum swing down defeats the purpose of this machine - but will give you the total energy of the system, which is conserved.  I think the idea is to input a large amount of energy into the pendulum, reduce the pivot resistances as much as possible, and then add a small amount of energy to keep it going for a long time.  I'm not sure what happens if you "close the loop".  Does it lock into a perpetual motion type device?  Do the losses of the system eventually get the better of it and cause it to stop?

Its an interesting idea to say the least.

Charlie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on June 27, 2009, 06:47:41 AM
This is not a double pendulum, it is a parametric oscillator.  I think the equations are slightly different.

I hope so!
You could try starting here, then.
http://faculty.ifmo.ru/butikov/Applets/ParamE.html
http://glass.phys.uniroma1.it/dileonardo/Applet.php?applet=ParamResoApplet
http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/ntnujava/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on June 27, 2009, 07:17:52 AM
Ha i already changed my post, because maybe a double pendulum is a parametric oscillator as well?  I'm not sure haha.  Thanks for those websites, they are good!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 10, 2009, 08:22:21 PM
It's not the two-stage oscillator, but there is a Milkovic pendulum.

The latest from veljkomilkovic.com:

Superiority of Pendulum Drive - Potential Energy to Kinetic Energy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates a simple experiment showing the change of potential energy to kinetic energy and proving the energy excess is possible with the pendulum drive.

Experiment Description:

The change of potential energy to kinetic energy of a metal ball in two cases: (1) a metal ball is rolling down on the inclined plane of the pendulum cart from upper edge and crashes at the lower edge of the cart resulting in 11 cm path traveled by the cart (2) The same metal ball is attached to the pendulum rod on the same pendulum cart and it is realized to swing from the same starting point as in the case (1). The path traveled by the cart is now 30 cm, almost 3 times longer; showing and proving in that way the superiority of pendulum drive and confirming the energy excess is possible with the pendulum drive.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 27, 2009, 09:27:39 PM
just found on YouTube

Milkovic pendulum replication
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut6FVjKMrBo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on August 08, 2009, 07:06:35 PM
I think that there is a chance!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 08, 2009, 08:22:46 PM
Storing mechanical energy in either X, Y, Z transference directions even with leverage, it is still storing energy, the device just uses the stored energy more efficiently but it will not produce more energy than what is stored. that's why it stops.

it doesn't matter how elaborate you make a stored energy device, it by any other name is still a stored energy device.

Jerry ::)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 09, 2009, 03:54:57 AM
Storing mechanical energy in either X, Y, Z transference directions even with leverage, it is still storing energy, the device just uses the stored energy more efficiently but it will not produce more energy than what is stored. that's why it stops.

it doesn't matter how elaborate you make a stored energy device, it by any other name is still a stored energy device.

Jerry ::)

Then why don't we just stop our search for free energy all together, after all we are just trying manipulate/store/transform energy in one way or another, but all the same basic laws still apply.

Ultimately it is not efficient energy storage we are utilizing here.
Just as with all other inventions of the like we are not trying to create energy but make more of it accessible for use, there is a conservation, only it is in a way which Newton would never understand. He wouldn't even be close to understand the present ideas of particle physics and bent space-time.

There are very few here of those who have talked so loud about how they "know" that this machine operates, but who still also mention its strikingly reverse relationship towards any load placed on it.
This fact alone will quickly make most of you realize why this machine can go far above unity, in terms of what you put in versus environmental input(COP).

If you build this thing up in resonance, giving it more and more energy stored in the pendulum up to a point (other designs can increase with practically no limit), you will as opposed to the common scenario not drain the oscillation of the energy equal to that which you put in, this is because there is only losses (mainly) due to the displacement of the pendulum axis. Because of this single fact, force used to push a load *WILL NOT* equal the force exerted back on the pendulum, to decelerate it.

If you can use your mind you do not even need to build a model to see this, just imagine the machine first without a load, then with a load and lastly with a maximum load.
This is in my mind a scientific demonstration device which will show (when properly constructed) how you can actually brake the normally assumed Newtons third law of motion.

Btw this machine is not needed in order to prove this, you can easily create an inertial propulsion device which would create a constant acceleration without any mass leaving, you would just need to place it in a box and the box would move.

I can promise you, there is much more to be heard about this machine! As a demonstration device, it will show how resonance will finally be connected with free energy, as it is the natural way to amplify power.

Wish you all the best,
Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 09, 2009, 08:39:47 AM
Hi Naboo.

No, I just didn't want anybody to think it was OU, I was just making sure is all, some get it mixed up. sorry, I'll be on my way.

Cheeri'O
Jerry
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 09, 2009, 11:52:33 AM
Nabo00o,
How do you visualize a load being put on the pendulum(s), where the primary pendulum does not lose amplitude? Surely, this will require the most advanced of timings, and aims?
So far, I've only seen demonstrations where the primary did require further well-timed (albeit gentle taps of) input.
Or IS the 2-stage oscillator already what I am asking for? It still requires a high initial displacement of the primary, and sees swing amplitude reduction be converted into a smaller ampliture vertical pendulum, be it if equal or greater weight.

If you see a way (and/or specific moment) to extract work from the 2-stage pendulum, while positively enhancing the amplitude of the primary (via benificial mounting point displacement), I think this is the best of stages to propose it.
I, for one, am all ears.

Regards,
J
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on August 09, 2009, 03:33:38 PM
Then why don't we just stop our search for free energy all together, after all we are just trying manipulate/store/transform energy in one way or another, but all the same basic laws still apply.
You've missed the point. The Law of Conservation of Energy requires that ALL forms of energy be considered, and that includes forms of energy that you do not know about yet.

You should study the Nobel Physics prizewinners for 1957 and Hal Puthoff. Agaslnce at http://www.cheniere.org would be good along
with http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 09, 2009, 04:47:38 PM
Jerry, well I strongly believe that nothing (energy or information) can ever be created without a source, so my point was that this also goes for any other form of mechanical or electrical device, non can ever be true over unity, but they can use the sources already existing.

@Cloxxki, I didn't say that we could extract energy from the swinging pendulum without any loss, but I am saying that this machine will only make those losses a matter distance and displacement, not of force.
This is of huge importance if we can increase the continuous force which this pendulum exerts by swinging it in resonance with its natural cycle, which is what we do when we push it each time.

Since the now much stronger force will not be blocked by an equal large force every time we make it do work, we will in effect have a mechanical amplifier which do not need its working energy from us, in principle it only needs our triggering signal if we make it efficient enough.
This along with many other experiments proves to me that that energy is in reality nothing else but different combinations of information, structured in such a way as to create the reactions that we are used to, but they will only behave this way when the information combinations are in the relationship which we are used to, say in the physical world on Earth.

This in itself is of course just a theory or an idea, it is not the reason to why I believe the 2-stage oscillator works. Also to answer your question, we do not need an extremely accurate triggering system to make use of this amplifier, other designs exists which could simplify its operation tremendously. It would also at the same time make the friction and inefficiencies close to zero...

@Paul-R
Paul, I was just trying to make a point, because it isn't that simple.
And I did learn about T. Bearden a while ago, his ideas or more precisely, his work to combine several already existing works in the different fields did really open my mind.
And my main point was that all energy is conserved, but energy exists not only in different forms but does also enter from somewhere, this somewhere as you know is the virtual particle flux.

This is actually very important to include in the explanation of this device, or else some could actually have believed that this machine got its energy from nowhere!


But I do believe that the 2-stage oscillator is not only reserved to the mechanical Milkociv device, this principle does also fit perfectly with sound wave resonators and the Rotorverter (lately a transverter has also been made). They are all using the two-stage separation of oscillations to invoke a conditions which allows an amplification of its original source. I belive in time this will be much more clear to us...

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 10, 2009, 10:49:14 PM
Leverage can look like OU because of what little work is put in to move a lot of potential.

for instance you can have a 1 ton magnet sitting in a coil and with the proper leverage I can move that 1 ton magnet with a very small solenoid coil on the opposite side of the lever, of course the 1 ton magnet won't move very much but what counts is the large amount of magnet force being moved in the coil.

I could actually use a traverse sound wave on the longer leverage side to vibrate the 1 ton magnet on the short lever side with a simple piezo speaker running at 100 to 200MHZ. I don't know how much power generation could be made because I have only worked out the mechanical solution in my mind and not the math nor has any research of my knowledge has been done to test such a contraption.

I have seen videos of just three men using a very long lever and moving a very large ship onto dock for repairs. it almost seems OU but they say it isn't according to physics.

Not even an Antimatter to matter reaction which is a 1:1 energy conversion is OU because of the Neutrinos given off in the reaction that can't be utilized for power production other than the Gamma Rays emitted and that my friend is a lot of unmerciful gamma rays to say the least.

I don't know where to take this thread because I know that OU will not be in the mechanical area of power production, perfect optical Traps for Light on the other hand will be OU because there will be no losses and there will only be photo amplification of photons within the optical trap, there are full spectrum solar cells in this trap that convert photo reactions to electrical energy at all potential band gaps.

I hope to see more research into this area from the mainstream because as soon as my money comes in I am going to take solar technology to its next level by using specialized photovoltaic effect laser optical materials for a ride!

I am not talking about a type .07 solar cell I am talking about a type 4 solar cell. if you want to know what I mean by type 4 then do a you-tube on Michio Kaku on a type 4 civilization and then you will see what I mean.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 11, 2009, 02:44:39 AM
The interesting thing about Mr. Milkovic's design is that it is a form of parametric oscillator being used in the opposite way.  Most physicists think of parametric oscillations as a child on a swing.   The swing must have a small amplitude and the child's center of mass change adds energy to the swing causing the amplitude to increase.  So, you take a small amount of energy and store it in the oscillation of the swing (energy storage).

The problem with the child on a swing is that if you were to add a load to the swing, the swing would damp.  And the energy input by the child would simply get used 1 to 1.  Mr. Milkovic's design is actually the opposite of that.  In this case the swing is already at max amplitude, you input a small amount of energy to keep the swing going (since there is a portion of the energy that will radiate due to losses).  Centripetal force is what produces the parametric oscillation.  It is this parametric oscillation that you load. 

In the case of the swing, it would be like loading the child instead of the swing (which for the child's case would not be very good).  So you load the child, and keep the swing at max amplitude (the child ends up doing the work).  Yet in this case, it is a natural force you are taking advantage of (not a child) and the amplitude of this natural force is directly related to the mass and gravity (2mg actually).  The problem that Mr. Milkovic has in his design is that the pivot point also moves.  This produces a dampening effect, causing the energy of the pendulum to radiate faster than it normally would.  Still, this shows promise since the entire concept is backward from conventional thought.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 11, 2009, 03:13:36 AM
YES! You described it in scientific terms that I couldn't  ;)

This is where the focus should be, and then try to explain exactly how energy is conserved while the "child part" is doing work. As I said earlier force will not retaliate back to slow it, it is only a matter of distance. This means that you can make it much less efficient then theoretically possible by normal oscillators, but also more efficient. It all depends on how much you allow the pendulum pivot to move.

Edit: You could say that it in essence is a partly reaction-less drive, since it doesn't do work directly on the mass being moved. In know though that somebody here would be furious that I use such a term on "this simple toy".

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 11, 2009, 03:57:54 PM
@Nabo00o,

I think the most efficient way would be to not allow the pivot point to move at all.  But to do this you'd need a different design since this MUST happen in Milkovic's system for it to operate. 

Yes without the pivot point moving, it acts like a spring pendulum operating in the parametric regime.  If you can damp only the spring, it won't damp the oscillation of the pendulum.  This is because damping the spring causes the system to act more like a normal pendulum, the energy staying in one frequency.  The parametric oscillation tries to distribute the energy across a range of frequencies.  Its a very interesting phenomenon since it appears that if you can pull energy from the spring of a spring pendulum, the pendulum won't damp.  This may be the "holy grail" of action without reaction.  Yet energy conservation will not be violated since the total (including initial energy input) all sums to zero.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 11, 2009, 04:33:33 PM
Quote
If you can damp only the spring, it won't damp the oscillation of the pendulum.  This is because damping the spring causes the system to act more like a normal pendulum, the energy staying in one frequency.

Hmm are you sure about this, this sounds a bit like the common chaotic pendulum....
I've tried something very close to this, and it seems like it will only expand upon the original oscillation, giving it more weights to oscillate, but a dampening will act directly on the pendulum as a result of this.

I think I have a really easy solution to increase the efficiency. As you also said earlier, if we decrease the distance which the pivot is allowed to travel we will increase the efficiency.
So instead of allowing it go far when it makes work, we must give it a really high resistance (a huge load for example) so that there is little loss as a result of displacement, but a lot of work produced because of the force (work equals force times distance). So we just need to alter this relationship, and the hinge is an efficient way of doing it.

Also there are more efficient ways of doing this while still using the same principle. The Milkovic pendulum is incredible useful as a demonstration device, but if we attempt to make a full feedback system there will be lots of mechanical losses, even more if we try to use the common crank system.

As a very practical way to make this all simpler and more efficient is to use it with water.
I called it a 2-stage hydraulic oscillator since I think the name fits very well.
It can soon be ready hopefully, my main problems lies in that I'm not to good with mechanics, not with the construction itself. It is really as simple as it can get, and uses the same centrifugal force used in the pendulum to provide a direct trust to the motor.

If I get it going some time soon I'll post both videos and pictures, so that the skeptics can once and for all accept this concept.

Bye, Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 11, 2009, 05:36:51 PM
What if the 1st stage is mounted from a spring, but the spring is restricted in its freedom of movement, i.e. having a maximum length? The peak of the CF pull would not go to the spring, but to the crossbar. The outer parts of it's swing will be spring-affected. I think we'd not want the spring to move at all laterally either.
Alternatively, the crossbar could be split up, and an eccentrical gear system doing the torque transfer.

Or, what if we could pully remove or even reverse the (small) horizontal displacement of the 1st stage via a smart box as a pivot? Acute dampening effect, or increased efficiency?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 11, 2009, 07:26:43 PM
Quote
Hmm are you sure about this, this sounds a bit like the common chaotic pendulum....
I've tried something very close to this, and it seems like it will only expand upon the original oscillation, giving it more weights to oscillate, but a dampening will act directly on the pendulum as a result of this.

Yes it is like a chaotic pendulum but when it is in parametric oscillating mod.  I'm not entirely sure what you mean though.  Do you mean dampening by adding more weight?  If you do that (add weight) you change the resonant frequency of the spring and it will no longer operate as a parametric oscillator (since the spring must have 2 times the frequency of the pendulum).  So I can see how it will disrupt the pendulum in that sense.  You would need a mechanism that damps the spring but doesn't change its resonant frequency.  Could you tell me more about this experiment you tried.  It might save me a lot of wasted time! 

Quote
So instead of allowing it go far when it makes work, we must give it a really high resistance (a huge load for example) so that there is little loss as a result of displacement, but a lot of work produced because of the force (work equals force times distance). So we just need to alter this relationship, and the hinge is an efficient way of doing it.

I think that would work too (and probably be easier haha). 

Quote
As a very practical way to make this all simpler and more efficient is to use it with water.
I called it a 2-stage hydraulic oscillator since I think the name fits very well.
It can soon be ready hopefully, my main problems lies in that I'm not to good with mechanics, not with the construction itself. It is really as simple as it can get, and uses the same centrifugal force used in the pendulum to provide a direct trust to the motor.

I can only guess what you mean here but using hydraulics sounds like a good idea.


@Cloxxki

Sorry Cloxxki, I'm not mechanically inclined enough to understand what you mean by the crossbar.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 11, 2009, 08:30:32 PM
I'll try to explain. In my simple experiments I used a spring with a weight instead of a pendulum.
Both the spring and the pendulum is a harmonic oscillator, which changes from kinetic to potential energy in every cycle, so they are pretty much identical. 

So I attached the spring to the hinge as normally done with the pendulum, but I also used springs to keep the hinge from falling to either side of the fulcrum support. The result was that when pendulum was in motion it oscillated back and forth with the hinge following the same pattern. If I put a hand on the hinge, both it and the pendulum would be dampened very quickly.

So it is not like directly connecting a pendulum to a spring (or a spring to a spring), but very close since the hinge is attached at both ends to the base with the other springs. (this is the best way I can explain it, it is not as complex as it might sound :D )


I can say that the hydraulic idea is as direct a feedback system as it can get. It is about using the high pressure in water that we get when we spin a bottle or pipe of water fast enough around, and then use that pressure directly through nozzles which will aid in the rotor's speed.
You can see two treads partly related to it here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4202-bernoulli-principal-vortex.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4202-bernoulli-principal-vortex.html)
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4348-water-turbine-project.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4348-water-turbine-project.html)

There will be a loss of speed in the rotor just as in the pendulum when the water leaves the central axis, but it is only related to distance, and if this rotor is built up to high enough speed creating a huge centrifugal pressure, we can use a relative small nozzle and still create a powerful propulsion, aiding the rotors rotation. This is also a direct analogue of increasing the load of the milkovic pendulum.


Btw sorry if this was more then you wanted, I have a tendency to write a lot more when it is something I'm interested in ;D

Have a great day,
Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 11, 2009, 09:31:35 PM
I was following you up to this point:
Quote
but I also used springs to keep the hinge from falling to either side of the fulcrum support.

What do you mean by this?  The hinge is not the fulcrum? 

How is your setup different from this:
http://www.physics.uoguelph.ca/applets/Intro_physics/kisalev/java/pend2/index.html

Sorry for my confusion,
Charles
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 11, 2009, 10:26:38 PM
Oh I'm not really that good at explaining stuff, this should straight things up.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 11, 2009, 11:00:22 PM
OH thanks I guess a picture is worth a thousand words! haha
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 12, 2009, 08:15:43 AM
His top orange bar is what I called crossbar. by lack of technical English vocabulary.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on August 12, 2009, 06:35:48 PM

A force meter would tell the story.  Record the force over distance of both input and output.  It appears that there is more out than in, certainly not 12 times, but there is much to consider in the deceptively simple demonstration.

I'm certain that the powers that be are tickled that most see relatively little 'pay off' from pursuing such simple ways to overhaul the status quo.

Continued promotion of overcomplication in all meaningful areas of life keep them assured that 'might makes right'.

They 'might' be wrong.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 12, 2009, 06:45:48 PM
Yes, because this thing can take many forms, and can become quite complicated or sophisticated if we want to. But the principle is already used all over the world, so I doubt there is much anyone can do to stop it once it's underlying principle is explained throughly, that of the inverted parametric oscillator.

Btw many interesting results appear if you G-search:   parametric oscillator "free energy" 

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 13, 2009, 04:56:59 AM
There was a paper considering Milkovic's oscillator as a parametric oscillator few months ago:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Aleksandar_Slavkovic_Milkovic's_Two_Stage_Oscillator_As_a_Parametric_Oscillator.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on August 13, 2009, 10:40:26 AM
Thank you Merg, I'm reading that paper right now and its getting really interesting!
Also, the parametric oscillator seems to link another generator I thought of making with the 2-stage one, it uses a varying capacitance where a rotor with special plates passes through 2 or more parallel connected capacitors, alternating their C and V values and thus makes a current go back and forth between them. The thing is that the plates are first dragged in by the caps but must then be dragged out again, resulting to a net zero work done. But the capacitors do still circulate current....

Science is interesting ;)
Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 25, 2009, 11:21:16 PM
Thank you Merg, I'm reading that paper right now and its getting really interesting!

So, what do you say about this paper?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 25, 2009, 11:54:30 PM
It is just a transfer of leverage, the stored amount of energy remains the same as any other type of stored energy, it gets depleted.

Don't be fooled by the illusion of leverage as being OU.

I could move an entire mountain of weight with a simple but tiny clock motor and a great deal of leverage but it would take me a very very long time to move it.

You could however move a super large magnet through an induction coil with very little effort with just a slight amount of force if you use enough leverage but you would have to remember you are sacrificing speed over length on the lever. if you can find an enormously powerful field magnet then the small amount of movement in the coil might be enough to generate more electrical potential than what is used on the long end of the stick.

no promises on that.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 27, 2009, 12:16:29 AM
Quote
It is just a transfer of leverage, the stored amount of energy remains the same as any other type of stored energy, it gets depleted.

Actually, it is not just the transfer of leverage.  It appears this way because he is using a lever.  If you keep the pendulum's pivot point stationary, there is no damping other than friction of the pendulum. 

The main point I see in this device (even if implemented wrong) is that you are RE-using energy stored in the pendulum. Assuming the pivot point does not move, the initial energy placed into the pendulum does not leave the system.  Friction produces energy "radiation" so that you must maintain a small input of energy to stop the pendulum from swinging down. 

Now lets say you alter Milkovic's design so that the pivot point does not move.  Gravity will try to take the stored energy in the pendulum and change the frequency of the pendulum across its period.  So that starting from a 90 degree position (90 degrees from the rest position) and moving to the 0 degree position (0 degrees being the rest position), the frequency of the pendulum will shift from high to low.  From 0 degrees back to 90, the frequency shifts from low to high.  This happens at twice the frequency of the pendulum, so that the system functions as a parametric oscillator.  The only energy being lost here is friction.  Placing a load properly on the altered Milkovic design will only stop the pendulum's frequency shift, allowing the pendulum to swing at a constant frequency equal to the frequency at the 90 degree position.  The average amount of energy required to keep the pendulum swinging is the same whether the device is loaded or not. 

From the standpoint of energy input/output, it should take less input than the output because if you ignore the initial input to lift the pendulum to the 90 degree height, the energy to keep it swinging is much less.  Since the pendulum is not damped from the loading, it may be possible to feed the energy back to keep the pendulum swinging.

Quote
You could however move a super large magnet through an induction coil with very little effort with just a slight amount of force if you use enough leverage but you would have to remember you are sacrificing speed over length on the lever. if you can find an enormously powerful field magnet then the small amount of movement in the coil might be enough to generate more electrical potential than what is used on the long end of the stick.

This will not work because the leverage is directly effected by the counter force produced when the coil is loaded.  So it will become harder to push the magnet through the coil.  In effect, the lever system is damped, regardless of leverage. 

In the Milkovic example, the pendulum is not damped by the load, and so it can be fed back.  Unfortunately, Milkovic's device is not properly designed so it will not be able to function in this way.  We have to alter it!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 27, 2009, 03:38:42 AM
Charlie_V
nice explanation!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 27, 2009, 04:59:10 AM
In the Milkovic example, the pendulum is not damped by the load, and so it can be fed back.  Unfortunately, Milkovic's device is not properly designed so it will not be able to function in this way.  We have to alter it!

So, what is your suggestion how to alter it?? How should we redesign this pendulum-lever system?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 27, 2009, 05:03:08 AM
Actually, it is not just the transfer of leverage.  It appears this way because he is using a lever.  If you keep the pendulum's pivot point stationary, there is no damping other than friction of the pendulum. 

The main point I see in this device (even if implemented wrong) is that you are RE-using energy stored in the pendulum. Assuming the pivot point does not move, the initial energy placed into the pendulum does not leave the system.  Friction produces energy "radiation" so that you must maintain a small input of energy to stop the pendulum from swinging down. 

Now lets say you alter Milkovic's design so that the pivot point does not move.  Gravity will try to take the stored energy in the pendulum and change the frequency of the pendulum across its period.  So that starting from a 90 degree position (90 degrees from the rest position) and moving to the 0 degree position (0 degrees being the rest position), the frequency of the pendulum will shift from high to low.  From 0 degrees back to 90, the frequency shifts from low to high.  This happens at twice the frequency of the pendulum, so that the system functions as a parametric oscillator.  The only energy being lost here is friction.  Placing a load properly on the altered Milkovic design will only stop the pendulum's frequency shift, allowing the pendulum to swing at a constant frequency equal to the frequency at the 90 degree position.  The average amount of energy required to keep the pendulum swinging is the same whether the device is loaded or not. 

From the standpoint of energy input/output, it should take less input than the output because if you ignore the initial input to lift the pendulum to the 90 degree height, the energy to keep it swinging is much less.  Since the pendulum is not damped from the loading, it may be possible to feed the energy back to keep the pendulum swinging.

This will not work because the leverage is directly effected by the counter force produced when the coil is loaded.  So it will become harder to push the magnet through the coil.  In effect, the lever system is damped, regardless of leverage. 

In the Milkovic example, the pendulum is not damped by the load, and so it can be fed back.  Unfortunately, Milkovic's device is not properly designed so it will not be able to function in this way.  We have to alter it!

C'est la vie

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 27, 2009, 05:08:39 AM
Quote
So, what is your suggestion how to alter it?? How should we redesign this pendulum-lever system?

Haha, that's a good question.  I have no idea!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on August 27, 2009, 07:16:21 AM

In the Milkovic example, the pendulum is not damped by the load, and so it can be fed back. 


IT is false !!
very bad science !!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 27, 2009, 09:45:27 AM
...
In the Milkovic example, the pendulum is not damped by the load, and so it can be fed back.
...

It is damped by the load.
When at the lowest position, an ordinary pendulum mass has lost its potential energy. It can regain it by continuing its movement and transforming again its kinetic energy into potential energy, by moving up to the same height it was starting from.

But the Milkovic's pendulum is different. When the pendulum mass is at the lowest position, the fulcrum is at a lower position due to the movement of the lever. The pendulum mass has lost a supplementary potential energy. In order the pendulum mass to regain this potential energy, the lever must raise again the pendulum fulcrum by restoring the energy it acquired from the lowering of the pendulum mass (that one due to the lowering of the fulcrum). If energy is consumed at the other end of the lever, the lever will lack energy to restore the position of the fulcrum at the same height.

The Milkovic's pendulum is really a parametric pendulum with a pumping function. Nevertheless in such a system, the energy is always conserved, it is just shifted from the pumping system at the pumping frequency to the pumped system at the pumped frequency (for example, search for "parametric amplifier". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parametric_oscillator. They were used in the 60's to amplify SHF signal received from big parabolic satellite antennas, by pumping a variable capacity of an oscillating LC circuit and thus transfering the energy from the pumping frequency to the signal frequency).






Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on August 27, 2009, 10:07:09 AM
It is damped by the load.
When at the lowest position, an ordinary pendulum mass has lost its potential energy. It can regain it by continuing its movement and transforming again its kinetic energy into potential energy, by moving up to the same height it was starting from.

But the Milkovic's pendulum is different. When the pendulum mass is at the lowest position, the fulcrum is at a lower position due to the movement of the lever. The pendulum mass has lost a supplementary potential energy. In order the pendulum mass to regain this potential energy, the lever must raise again the pendulum fulcrum by restoring the energy it acquired from the lowering of the pendulum mass (that one due to the lowering of the fulcrum). If energy is consumed at the other end of the lever, the lever will lack energy to restore the position of the fulcrum at the same height.

The Milkovic's pendulum is really a parametric pendulum with a pumping function. Nevertheless in such a system, the energy is always conserved, it is just shifted from the pumping system at the pumping frequency to the pumped system at the pumped frequency (for example, search for "parametric amplifier". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parametric_oscillator. They were used in the 60's to amplify SHF signal received from big parabolic satellite antennas, by pumping a variable capacity of an oscillating LC circuit and thus transfering the energy from the pumping frequency to the signal frequency).

thank you exnihiloest
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on August 27, 2009, 10:41:04 AM
damped?

what about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foY5r2TMOo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on August 27, 2009, 01:43:02 PM
damped?

what about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foY5r2TMOo

sorry no proof !!
very bad math
why to compare tomatos and carrots ?
or comparing apples with oranges ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 27, 2009, 03:28:44 PM
Quote
In the Milkovic example, the pendulum is not damped by the load, and so it can be fed back. 

What i meant to say is that the ALTERED Milkovic example is not damped.  Yes both Tagor and Exnihiloest are correct - the standard Milkovic example has dampening because the pivot point drops as the pendulum swings downward.  This takes energy from the system, Exnihiloest your explanation is perfect.

Quote
The Milkovic's pendulum is really a parametric pendulum with a pumping function. Nevertheless in such a system, the energy is always conserved, it is just shifted from the pumping system at the pumping frequency to the pumped system at the pumped frequency (for example, search for "parametric amplifier".

The key here is when properly designed gravity does the pumping.  Right now because the pivot point moves, gravity is only doing some fraction of the pumping, the operator of the pendulum does the rest.  If the pivot point doesn't move, gravity will do 100% of the pumping.  This is a very interesting result. 

And yes energy is conserved because the output is the initial energy input plus the energy required to keep the pendulum swinging.  But if Bob puts in the initial energy, and Mike keeps it swinging, it will appear to Mike that the device is over unity (assuming the device is designed so that the pivot point doesn't move).  Mike will think this because he is oblivious to the initial energy input that Bob placed.  So to Mike, the output (Bob energy + Mike energy) is much more than Mike's input. 

The damping of the pendulum is the most important aspect.  If you can never remove the pendulum damping, I don't think it will ever be possible to feed the energy back.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on August 31, 2009, 04:35:22 PM
However, the advantage of this device is simple, so the friction is minimal, also the losses are minimal!
A overunity (energy surplus) have been confirmed by many!
See the previous pages!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on August 31, 2009, 07:33:18 PM
It is overunity and it isn't.  That's what I'm trying to say.  Its all in how you define your reference point.  If, for example, you include the initial energy to raise the pendulum up then include the energy it takes to keep the pendulum swinging, the system is not overunity at all (maybe 50% or worse - depending on your setup).  However, if you ignore the initial input and measure the amount of energy it takes to keep the pendulum swinging verses the output.  Suddenly the system appears overunity (or atleast very close - again depending on your setup). 

It is almost like the initial input is "non-radiating" energy and stays within the system and is re-used (if that is a good way to describe it).  The "radiating" part is what is consumed by friction and the dropping pivot point. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 05, 2009, 02:49:50 PM
@Charlie_V, I would be most interested to hear how you imagine that the enhanced 2-stage pendulum would be constructed. In my mind it seem totally impossible to make work at the output of this device if it is not moving its pivot (the pendulum pivot). And as we know, moving its pivot will cause it to loose some of its stored energy, this is the only real loss of this machine, friction is generally only a minor nuisance.

But, still I can dimly see some way to remove even this loss, I get the feeling by relating this to some other machines and techniques that can do this. By using two actions, one which makes work and the other negative work, meaning that the pendulum for instance both gives and receives energy, a secondary effect ( in this case the movement of the hinge) would also happen at the same time. But using or loading this effect would only slow or accelerate the device, it would not directly drain it.

Just for the record, this type of mechanism already exists, and it has been greatly explained by a Russian scientist, Alexander Frolov.
http://alexfrolov.narod.ru/work.htm (http://alexfrolov.narod.ru/work.htm)
Maybe totally unrelated, but then again, maybe totally 'related' if we want to nullify the draining effect. But, it is not 100% necessary to do if you want more out than you put in. This machine already does that.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on September 06, 2009, 07:22:20 AM
Quote
@Charlie_V, I would be most interested to hear how you imagine that the enhanced 2-stage pendulum would be constructed. In my mind it seem totally impossible to make work at the output of this device if it is not moving its pivot (the pendulum pivot). And as we know, moving its pivot will cause it to loose some of its stored energy, this is the only real loss of this machine, friction is generally only a minor nuisance.
 

I'm still working on it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on September 06, 2009, 10:23:32 AM
...And as we know, moving its pivot will cause it to loose some of its stored energy, this is the only real loss of this machine, friction is generally only a minor nuisance.
...

It is not "real loss". It is the only way that this machine can work. Without a moving pivot, the lever could not take the energy of the pendulum to provide it to the load.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 06, 2009, 01:44:37 PM
What I meant by real loss is that it is the only one that counts, the others are both minimal and are not something which a certain design is forced to have, but loss of potential energy will always happen when we move the pivot, as you explained quite well earlier.

So not moving the pivot at all isn't really an option. What I had in my mind would be something dual, which both used the up time of the pendulum (or spring, as they work as well) and the down time of a second pendulum/spring. If they could somehow work together at the same time, and make up for each others losses, as it is only distance and not force*distance (real work) which is draining their energy, then they could work like some of the systems which A. Frolov described in the paper I linked. There you can see both a transformer and a magnet motor, the first which needs no power but only a signal, and the other which has no drag what-so-ever. The key to both is that we use two continuously interchanging actions to create a third action. The third one will not directly act on the source as a load, but will only be one of its parameters in constant change.

Hmm, this does seem pretty easy to unite with T. Beardens talk of engineering the causes instead of the effects.

To me the original principle of the 2-stage oscillator is still enough to power all that we need, but there are many ways to use it. We shouldn't limit ourselves to only the pendulum/spring on a hinge model. There numerous other designs which can be based on the same principle, and many of which are much more powerful and at the same time simpler.

Some time ago I tried to make a 3d model of a full-scale, completely self-powered Milkovic pendulum.
To make it completely self-sustained it would need many parts and gears in order to send its output back to its input, and in addition to this complexity its efficiency would probably be very low too.

Then, one day while watching the energetic forum a guy named Ted Evert made a very interesting sketch of a machine that centrifugally rotated water and then used the increased pressure to further aid in its total rotation. He hasn't made it yet, but it is a very intriguing idea, and has to me a very clear relevance to the 2-stage oscillator.

You input rotation (pushing the pendulum, or pushing the cylindrical water tank).
It outputs linear acceleration (centrifugal pull from the pendulum, or centrifugal jet from the tank).
Here's there difference; no complex machinery is needed in the water jet scenario, you only need to point it in the right direction and thats that. Then you will have yourself a full-scale completely self-driven 2-stage oscillator.

As of yet this seems to be one of the best ways to do it.
Other potentially even more powerful ways to use this effect can be acoustic resonators. Since the frequency of oscillation is higher, more power in comparison to its weight should be possible, but I haven't yet found way to handle the feedback.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on September 08, 2009, 05:28:32 PM
Dynamic mechanical pendulum system with a lever, is a complex system of forces. Milkovic`s pendulum can not be seen as an isolated reference system, because it is exposed to action variable forces. To system, as input energy, does not only affect the hand that take out the pendulum from equilibrium, but also the very complex nature of gravity.
I must note that gravity, still a great enigma, is varying intensity from the position to the position on the planet. In the calculation of gravitational force enters our planet interactions with other planets and the Sun, which are all in constant motion, so that the vector is constantly changing. And it is necessary to note that the Sun pull the whole solar system at a speed of about 20,000 m / s in the direction to the star Vega in the constellation of Lyra. Such movement of the Solar system gives spiral path to the planets. Also, I did not mention the strong gravity of the Black hole in the Sagittarius constellation, which holds together our spiral galaxy, Milky Way.
The very dynamics of gravity can be viewed as an additional input energy in the system Milkovic`s pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on September 08, 2009, 06:46:43 PM
Quote
Without a moving pivot, the lever could not take the energy of the pendulum to provide it to the load.

I think there are two distinct energy inputs that make the output in Milkovic's system.  The first being the non-radiating (for lack of a better term) effect of centripetal force due to gravity (this portion is recoverable when the lever moves down).  The second is the radiating portion which encompasses the frictional loss but also the fact the pivot point moves, damping the pendulum's oscillation.  Between the two, I'm not sure which is the more dominant - I suppose it varies for different setups.  I know the first will become more dominant the less the pivot point moves.  Of course, if it doesn't move at all no useful work is produced.  Centripetal force is what causes the lever to move in the first place.  But the moving pivot re-couples the input with the output so I wonder if feed back would ever be possible?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 08, 2009, 08:15:59 PM
I believe so, but it remains to be demonstrated. Of course we shouldn't be naive and disregard the fact that no one has as of yet (as we know of) made a real working 2-stage oscillator with a feedback, making it self-sustained. There are some real obstacles here, but I believe it lies in the complexity of the invention and not in its physical workings.

So as such I highly suggest that other designs based on the same principle are tested.
The general principle which marks the 2-stage oscillator is that the relationship between the stored oscillation and the load's opposite, damping force has been reversed. This is not found in the mechanics we are used to, so we can use this as a lead to find other designs which work in the same way.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on September 08, 2009, 11:26:29 PM
You know, everyone tries to load the lever arm.  I bet it would be easier to put a ratchet on the lever's fulcrum and attach a load to the ratchet itself.  Then you could gear the ratchet to get more speed and connect a small electric generator with capacitor storage bank.

Coils could be placed on either side of the pendulum arm with a Reed switch and a magnet on the end of the pendulum.  The generator could charge the capacitor bank, the capacitor bank could give power to the coils to keep the pendulum swinging.  A diode would need to be in the coil circuit though because you want current to flow only one direction (to attract the pendulum upward to its initial starting position but not to flow as the pendulum swings back downward).  Something like that should give auto timing to the pendulum.  You would find out really quick if the system can function in feedback or not. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 08, 2009, 11:59:46 PM
You can do it electrically yes, but it involves loosing a lot of power in poor conversion efficiency.
A ratchet system has been brought up before, both because ratchets have an incredibly high efficiency and because it could be used to drive a generator without a crank. Tommy Lee Reed showed a very powerful system some time ago utilizing a ratchet connected to a wheel powered by air pressure. It was almost scary the amount of torque he could foster up with it.

This would at least be the ideal way to generate electricity from the 2-stage oscillator if we wanted.
Both simpler and more efficient, and did I say cheaper?

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 09, 2009, 12:54:46 AM
Check out my videos on youtube.com.

Search  Rhead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 09, 2009, 01:22:34 AM
Rhead, you haven't updated your progress for a long time now, its hell not knowing if your 4ton? pendulum project made it or not  :D

Maybe you have been too busy recently, but I and many others would really have appreciated some information on your latest progress.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on September 09, 2009, 09:20:58 AM

Maybe you have been too busy recently, but I and many others would really have appreciated some information on your latest progress.

Julian

This is true. We all want to see the progress of Rhead project on youtube!  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 09, 2009, 11:22:14 AM
Sorry fellas;
3 heart attacks and a failing economy has put a little kink in my timing. And that says nothing for my age.
I have done a few tests that did not require a lot of energy from my part.  And have watched my own videos in slow motion many times, studying the movements.
We have come up with a design that from all testings should allow the machine to run itself.  ALL the timing, movements And forces are there. It is only a matter of hooking them together in the right sequence and proportions. (AND figuring out what to do with the excess energy. IE, make electricity or pump water)
A two hundred pound pendulum almost turned my one thousand pound frame over.  Really got a little hairy. :o  we have solved that problem.  In doing so we can swing much heavier pendulums with a lot less poundage of frame work per pound of pendulum.
We have done a lot of tests and calculations as well.  It seems as if I was a little off on my first figures as to pendulum weight ,  length and horse power. The length of the pendulum ADDS to the time, BUT multiplies the power out put.  This is ONE of the aspects of the 2 stage oscillator that most people miss. AND there are a few other things about it that a lot of people don't even think about. Key things that once noticed, make it fully understandable.
My health is recovering and the weather is cooling off a bit. SO; I will be making some new videos of my finds, with some explanations. and will try to point out the little things that people are missing when studying this machine.
I have never had a failed experiment.  Those that worked were a success. and those that did not work, suckseeded in teaching me what NOT to do.

    RHead
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 09, 2009, 11:38:40 AM
Sorry fellas;
3 heart attacks and a failing economy has put a little kink in my timing. And that says nothing for my age.
I have done a few tests that did not require a lot of energy from my part.  And have watched my own videos in slow motion many times, studying the movements.
We have come up with a design that from all testings should allow the machine to run itself.  ALL the timing, movements And forces are there. It is only a matter of hooking them together in the right sequence and proportions. (AND figuring out what to do with the excess energy. IE, make electricity or pump water)
A two hundred pound pendulum almost turned my one thousand pound frame over.  Really got a little hairy. :o  we have solved that problem.  In doing so we can swing much heavier pendulums with a lot less poundage of frame work per pound of pendulum.
We have done a lot of tests and calculations as well.  It seems as if I was a little off on my first figures as to pendulum weight ,  length and horse power. The length of the pendulum ADDS to the time, BUT multiplies the power out put.  This is ONE of the aspects of the 2 stage oscillator that most people miss. AND there are a few other things about it that a lot of people don't even think about. Key things that once noticed, make it fully understandable.
My health is recovering and the weather is cooling off a bit. SO; I will be making some new videos of my finds, with some explanations. and will try to point out the little things that people are missing when studying this machine.
I have never had a failed experiment.  Those that worked were a success. and those that did not work, suckseeded in teaching me what NOT to do.

    RHead

how soon will you have the videos up? today?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 09, 2009, 03:15:37 PM
Sad to hear about the heart problems, but still great that you got back to working.
If this counts for anything, I would say that meat in general has a tendency to increase the chance of cardiac arrest. That and also a lot animal fat used in oil. If you want to live healthy and still eat a lot, switch to olive oil in the dinner and meals, it is a change that could turn your life around :)

Well there you heard my vegetarian bias anyway,
Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 09, 2009, 08:12:31 PM
Sorry FreeEnergy from California. Not today hopefully by this weekend.

Juliean; Thanks for the advice. BUT;;; A Lepord can not change his spots.  I AM    CARNAVOR !!!  and nobody GETS OUT ALIVE.
Healthy people are going to feel really foolish one day lying in a hospital bed dieing from nothing.  HA HA HA.

        Raymond     RHead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 09, 2009, 09:30:02 PM

And yes energy is conserved because the output is the initial energy input plus the energy required to keep the pendulum swinging.  But if Bob puts in the initial energy, and Mike keeps it swinging, it will appear to Mike that the device is over unity (assuming the device is designed so that the pivot point doesn't move).  Mike will think this because he is oblivious to the initial energy input that Bob placed.  So to Mike, the output (Bob energy + Mike energy) is much more than Mike's input. 


This is interesting note that total energy used is Bob energy + Mike energy. However if the system is used for long period of the time we can disregard initial energy put by Bob. So it seams that Mike will correctly see over unity all the time. The problem is moving of the pivot point which consumes energy of the system and decrease over unity.

Jovan

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 09, 2009, 09:48:37 PM
Quote
This is interesting note that total energy used is Bob energy + Mike energy. However if the system is used for long period of the time we can disregard initial energy put by Bob. So it seams that Mike will correctly see over unity all the time.
Which is not what happens in a normal damped harmonic oscillator.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 09, 2009, 11:20:03 PM
:-) found this
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on September 10, 2009, 12:03:38 AM
Hey, theres the ratchet idea!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 10, 2009, 12:44:10 PM
:-) found this
Did you mean something like this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbWeI2Kam3s&feature=channel_page
Or this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m07VAdJZnp8&feature=channel_page
Or maybe this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AulAeyAjtzk&feature=channel_page

I later took the tire and rime off the wheel and using it like a pulley. Tied a #10 braided nylon line to it and a 10 pound odd shaped peace of steel over 60 feet away. Holding the wheel so it would not turn. I got the machine up to speed and turned loss.  It pulled the steel the over 60 foot distants then snatched it into the air (over 6 feet high) so hard it Brock the # 10 braided nylon line.  AND did it all in just under 6 seconds.
SORRY !!!!  I did not make a video of that.  DANG  IT !!!!
By the way;;   the first video is a coffee can full of concrete (14 pounds)
The second two videos are a 6 gallon bucket full of concrete (122 pounds)
Almost NO difference in power needed to KEEP them swinging ONCE they are swinging. The only difference in energy needed to keep the larger one swinging was the larger size and extra air drag.  That is why I now use lead in my pendulums. More weight more power, Smaller pendulum, less air drag.
That is one of the most important parts of the 2 stage oscillator.
Everyone knows that it takes more energy to get a car from zero to 60 in a 1/4 mile than it takes to run a car for a 1/4 mile at 60 miles per hour.

I am making a set of videos explaining the finer points of the 2 stage oscillator and exactly what is happening to make it work, (in detail) step by step.  They show many points that the average person is missing.
One example is where does the excess power come from.
My problem with this videos is that the files are too large to post to you tube. OR at the least I don't know how to post them on you tube.  They run over 400 megs and 15 minutes each.  Is there anyone out there that can help me get them on the net for everyone to see ?????

           Raymond
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 10, 2009, 03:11:55 PM
If you had a special account on youtube you could have the videos as long as you wanted to.
Many are using this system to show films and educational lectures, like MIT for example.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on September 10, 2009, 04:27:11 PM
What is MIT saying about this machine might I ask? 

By the way, adding more weight to the pendulum increases the centripetal force generated.  If you released the weight from a 90 degree vertical position the centripetal force is 2mg (twice the mass of the weight times gravity).  This was rather bewildering to me because the length of the rod makes no difference.  This is because at free fall, the velocity is a function of the rod length and it drops out of the equation so all is left is the factor 2, the mass, and gravity.  Turns out the rod length increases the stored energy in the system (and reduces the frequency) - which is important if you have a load with a certain energy requirement. 

I'm interested to hear where Rhead100 thinks the excess energy is coming from.  I think its from gravity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 10, 2009, 05:48:26 PM
Nice vids rhead, I had already admired those before.
It would be interesting to see your big 2-stage pendulums do more work than push away some air or keep a bike wheel turning. Your hands are now mostly overcoming the system's air drag, it seems? If the wheel would be a waterwheel, things would be come more understandable, perhaps. If that waterwheel can lift more water weight than the 1st stage weight and to the latter's starting height at that, we've got overunity I would say.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 10, 2009, 10:36:29 PM
What is MIT saying about this machine might I ask? 

By the way, adding more weight to the pendulum increases the centripetal force generated.  If you released the weight from a 90 degree vertical position the centripetal force is 2mg (twice the mass of the weight times gravity).  This was rather bewildering to me because the length of the rod makes no difference.  This is because at free fall, the velocity is a function of the rod length and it drops out of the equation so all is left is the factor 2, the mass, and gravity.  Turns out the rod length increases the stored energy in the system (and reduces the frequency) - which is important if you have a load with a certain energy requirement. 

I'm interested to hear where Rhead100 thinks the excess energy is coming from.  I think its from gravity.
Actually  Charlie_V ,  That is where the extra energy comes from, gravity.  I made that statement not for intelligent people such as yourself and me. BUT for the stupid NAY Sayers on you tube that say gravity is not  energy, and there is no way to use it.
The 2 stage oscillator not only works on the same "princable", as the US, NASA , deep space probes sling shot around other planets to accelerate them with a minimal expenditure of fuel.  It uses almost the same mathematics but with a slight tweek here and there.
   
        Raymond   RHead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on September 10, 2009, 11:02:50 PM
Rhead100

 Welcome to the forum. Pendulums have interesting effects and I truly don't believe many people truly understand them. I have been working on an accelerating effect for a pendulum to see if I could keep it going. I have improved on the swing but it is not enough. But I will continue to work with the possibilities and I have designed this device for easy change to work with.

Keep up the good work

Alan
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 10, 2009, 11:47:47 PM
Rhead100

 Welcome to the forum. Pendulums have interesting effects and I truly don't believe many people truly understand them. I have been working on an accelerating effect for a pendulum to see if I could keep it going. I have improved on the swing but it is not enough. But I will continue to work with the possibilities and I have designed this device for easy change to work with.

Keep up the good work


Alan

Hi Alan and thinks for the welcome.
Your work sounds very interesting I would like to see it.  Do you have videos on the net somewhere ???
I ;  personaly am working on an escapment idea much like that in an old grandfather clock that is powered by weights instead of a spring.  After all,  the 2 stage oscillator can pick up a lot of weight. And everyone knows it takes very little weight to keep the pendulum swinging for a very long time.

     Raymond   RHead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on September 10, 2009, 11:58:58 PM

Milkovic's oscillator sure is interesting.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 11, 2009, 05:35:22 AM
My problem with this videos is that the files are too large to post to you tube. OR at the least I don't know how to post them on you tube.  They run over 400 megs and 15 minutes each.  Is there anyone out there that can help me get them on the net for everyone to see ?????

The best place to share your videos is YouTube, but YouTube has limited the video lenght and size to ordinary users. The maximum video length for your videos is 10:59 min and 2 GB video size. So, try to limit each your video to 10:59 min. or if it is 15 min. split it in 2 parts, giving them a name like "Milkovic oscillator... part 1/2" and upload them one by one. Giving these marks "part 1/2" and "part 2/2" you will explain people there is a second part of the video... (if you choose this second option). The best and easiest software for splitting the videos is "Free Video Dub" - you can download it from the next link http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Dub.htm

Hoping this will help and that we will watch your great achievements soon.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on September 11, 2009, 06:21:44 PM
Work in progress...  ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6mI6haFxRs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 11, 2009, 11:31:57 PM
  Rhead100,
 In the first video, it seems he forgot the next step.

                                                                Jim

HA HA HA ;;;    I noticed that too  P-Motion.  Almost like he thought it was going to run by itself.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on September 12, 2009, 10:31:37 AM

 I am wondering, about how long does it run ?


Hello, with this configuration the machine has not output power enough to light a bycicle lamp. I'm working for increasing power output, improving the system. Ciao!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 12, 2009, 10:54:26 AM
Interesting results using Working Model 2D.
Air Resistance set to High.

http://hackersclub.net/DSCN1074.AVI
http://hackersclub.net/DSCN1075.AVI
http://hackersclub.net/DSCN1076.AVI
http://hackersclub.net/DSCN1077.AVI
http://hackersclub.net/DSCN1079.AVI
http://hackersclub.net/DSCN1081.AVI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 12, 2009, 05:12:59 PM
  Hi Andrea,
 Rhead and me are thinking of something. There might be a way to make it perpetual. That would be the next step.
 I think with Milovic, he likes playing around with pendulums and that's okay by me. I have seen on one of his pages where he has sold water pumps (for wells?).
 I'm not sure if he has put much thought into over unity. He's been busy making some money.

                                                        au revoir, do sveedaniya

You could make it able to rotate all the way around. Then it would only be a matter of connecting it to a output wheel, with a gear, in other to return the extra energy back in the cycle again.

It will then use the centrifugal force to create an orbital motion instead of the common pendulum motion.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on September 12, 2009, 05:21:12 PM
  Hi Andrea,
 Rhead and me are thinking of something. There might be a way to make it perpetual. That would be the next step.
 I think with Milovic, he likes playing around with pendulums and that's okay by me. I have seen on one of his pages where he has sold water pumps (for wells?).
 I'm not sure if he has put much thought into over unity. He's been busy making some money.

                                                        au revoir, do sveedaniya

I don't know if there could be overunity, like you I really hope that this could be. The difficult is measuring the output (input = m*g*h) , the bike's wheel isn't the best way for me, it could be used only if you have a very great machine. I wanna try - like many guys told in this same thread before - to improve it with a water pump on the output. If we measure the water, should be definitevely clear if there is a surplus energy or not.  Bye  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 12, 2009, 10:00:52 PM
That would be interesting!
I can visualize it all in my head, the way it would move,  it's just the actual construction phase that worries me. Too many parts needed if it was to be fully self sufficient.

That's why I want it to be even more simple, and going more to the basics of its operation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 12, 2009, 11:09:12 PM
anyone see the videos i posted? what do you guys think?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 13, 2009, 02:58:53 AM
I think with Milovic, he likes playing around with pendulums and that's okay by me. I have seen on one of his pages where he has sold water pumps (for wells?).
 I'm not sure if he has put much thought into over unity. He's been busy making some money.

I'd be the first one who would buy such pendulum pump, but I didn't find it anywhere to order.
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/rucnaPumpaEng.html
It seems it was a public demonstration rather than money making business :)

I ;  personaly am working on an escapment idea much like that in an old grandfather clock that is powered by weights instead of a spring.  After all,  the 2 stage oscillator can pick up a lot of weight. And everyone knows it takes very little weight to keep the pendulum swinging for a very long time.

Rhead,
why didn't you put a water pump for output work?
Pumping water is real work done and it seems it is pretty much easier to install some pump than a generator.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: smig on September 13, 2009, 05:53:32 PM
I offer close loop with compressed air. If such system can run by itself, then we have overunity. If pressure rises, this energy can be used for other purposes.
Can someone make calculations? Or may be a real model?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 14, 2009, 02:35:49 AM
I offer close loop with compressed air. If such system can run by itself, then we have overunity. If pressure rises, this energy can be used for other purposes.
Can someone make calculations? Or may be a real model?

Thanks for submitting your idea. That is good, but in my opinion all ideas should be based on technical experience. Or at least you or someone else (who is skilled and equipped enough) should try it in practice.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on September 14, 2009, 02:56:38 AM

Forget compressed air and commensurate wasted complexity....it should be a simple matter, if surplus energy exists, to force couple to the hammer piston mechanically in order to continue driving the prime mover.

TS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 14, 2009, 04:33:43 AM
Interesting result using Working Model 2D.
Air Resistance set to High.

http://hackersclub.net/DSCN2427.AVI

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 14, 2009, 12:28:42 PM
this is different than the others, software ran out of memory http://hackersclub.net/DSCN1083.AVI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on September 14, 2009, 06:13:01 PM
Still, unless someone like Andrea is interested ( she has a build ). When she gets her build working closer to what she likes, who knows, she might give it a thought.
 

I'm a boy not a lady...  ;D in Italy Andrea is a boys' name. Bye!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 14, 2009, 07:47:19 PM
I just realized that the peakiness of the pendulum's downward pull might be so useful for waterpump, to overcome initial stiction, making it easier to operate with muscle power. Whether it pumps more than a perfect level sytem powered by weights being lowered, I very much doubt.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 15, 2009, 12:41:13 AM
England is closer geographically to Italy than to the US ;-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 16, 2009, 04:51:40 AM
We have reinforced the frame and given it a solid concret base. Two piers 3 ft. x 1.5 ft x 2 ft. one at each end.  And we formed them up with a self levaling laser.  Next we will drill the concret and fasten the steel base down to the piers.  This should give the base an additional 2700 pounds of support.
Next,  we are extending the frame to 25 feet to allow for the building of two small towers , one at each end to house the feed back esccapment arms.
We have already built a much more stable pendulum support arm and are just waiting to get the 2 towers in place before installing it and the pendulum.  However ;  we are considering a little heavyer pendulum and of a differant shape to make it more airodinamic.The power transfer base will be outside the main base of the unit and I am hopeing this will not affect it's opperation.  I am doing this to try and make it easyer to hookup a small generator.
I want the unit to power itself mechanicaly and then make some electricity without useing ANY of the electricity it makes to opperat it.
I do undrstand that everyone thinks me a little crazy to try to do what everyone with knowlage of math and physics says can not be done. BUT they are looking at old math and not the new math of combining two differant kinds of math to do a totaly differant job.   Every test I have done to date says it will work.
All in all,  when I get it finished.  Without the pendulum it will weigh upwards to 2 & 1/2 tons.  And this is only the experimental modle.
I will try to make a few videos as we build. Just keep in miend it is in the building stages and looks a little rough.   :o    Thanks.

        Raymond    RHead100
PS;  this guys site on you tube may give you some idea of what I am talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BenVanDeWaal
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 16, 2009, 05:05:08 AM
Raymond, I was thinking of saying this to you before, but now I just have to: you will have to watch your back! This is really a kinda big deal, I'm sure you know. Even if it isn't some big conspiracy, there's all kinds of people out there, and some might just be really furious on you for trying this, even if that seems weird.

Don't worry about the math or the physics of it, I am quite certain that this is understandable when we include more advanced physics, together with what I think is the core of its operation; the parametric resonance.

It will be very interesting to hear how your effort goes, if it goes well, well then a lot of people here will have to admit that they were wrong  :)
Bye,
Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 17, 2009, 02:31:23 AM
We have already built a much more stable pendulum support arm and are just waiting to get the 2 towers in place before installing it and the pendulum.  However ;  we are considering a little heavyer pendulum and of a differant shape to make it more airodinamic.The power transfer base will be outside the main base of the unit and I am hopeing this will not affect it's opperation.  I am doing this to try and make it easyer to hookup a small generator.

Go ahead Raymond!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mk1 on September 17, 2009, 08:57:16 AM
http://www.disclose.tv/viewvideo/29990/Dr__Steven_Greer_The_Promise_of_New_Energy/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 17, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
http://www.disclose.tv/viewvideo/29990/Dr__Steven_Greer_The_Promise_of_New_Energy/

Thank you Mk1, I'm watching it this very moment!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Russell Lee on September 20, 2009, 11:13:15 PM
 Before anyone gets too goo-goo about this machine I suggest they inspect the design of the ancient Chinese spoon-tilt hammer.  This new design is basically the ancient one with a twist-the pendulum, which means nothing but that it is a variant of the original.  It is also similar to other ancient machines like the Oliver (treadle hammer), and the Shadouf (Swape).
 There is a book M.I.T. press has for sale called 'Simple Working Models of Historic Machines' by Aubrey F. Burstall  ($20.00) that has examples of each of these ancient machines.
  A slight-of-hand may be at work here.  Shields up!
                                                  Regards,
                                                              Russell Lee
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 21, 2009, 01:20:37 AM
The best place to share your videos is YouTube, but YouTube has limited the video lenght and size to ordinary users. The maximum video length for your videos is 10:59 min and 2 GB video size. So, try to limit each your video to 10:59 min. or if it is 15 min. split it in 2 parts, giving them a name like "Milkovic oscillator... part 1/2" and upload them one by one. Giving these marks "part 1/2" and "part 2/2" you will explain people there is a second part of the video... (if you choose this second option). The best and easiest software for splitting the videos is "Free Video Dub" - you can download it from the next link http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Dub.htm

Hoping this will help and that we will watch your great achievements soon.

THANKS  Merg;   Your the best.  took me a while to get the time to learn how to use it. But I have it down pat now.    was able to split one of my best but longer videos and upload them on youtube today.  Please do not forget to read the discription to the right of the videos.  Try to watch them in order.

Video "A"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMq53NPttUk&feature=channel_page

Video "B"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQv1Z6Tbyus&feature=channel_page
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 21, 2009, 02:33:33 AM
Before anyone gets too goo-goo about this machine I suggest they inspect the design of the ancient Chinese spoon-tilt hammer.  This new design is basically the ancient one with a twist-the pendulum, which means nothing but that it is a variant of the original.  It is also similar to other ancient machines like the Oliver (treadle hammer), and the Shadouf (Swape).
 There is a book M.I.T. press has for sale called 'Simple Working Models of Historic Machines' by Aubrey F. Burstall  ($20.00) that has examples of each of these ancient machines.
  A slight-of-hand may be at work here.  Shields up!
                                                  Regards,
                                                              Russell Lee
Hi Russell;;;   I really like the way you put that. 
"This new design is basically the ancient one with a twist-the pendulum, which means nothing but that it is a variant of the original."

Like the F-!4  Tom-cat is basically the ancient one with a twist-  better aerodynamic design, Aluminum Alloys, and jets that can produce many more pounds of throust per pound of engne weight.instead of the old prop planes.
I am with you all the way Buddy.  There is nothing new on this earth.  Only improvements to old ideas.
Purly for the sack of discution.  Let us say. The machine does not put out more energy than is put in.  AND, At the same time acknowlage the given Fact that it operates Exactly oposet of every other machine on this planet. In that the more resistance is put on the machine the easyer it is to operate.  Would this not mean that there is "A POSSABILATY"  that it just might, or could be,  THE most effeciant machine ever designed to this date.
I proposs ;;;;;    IF; it is possible. Then it is worth my time to look into. And any constructive sugjestions you could come up with would be welcomed with OPEN arms.
I honestly say to you. Your sugjestion that this may be an ancient design with a twist- the pendulum.   This thrills me to no end.  For IF, the pendulum is an improvement on the old design.  Then maybe we need to improve the penduluim next.  And seeing as the pendulum has been around for some time now.  Maybe it is time to think 'IMPROVEMENT" of the pendulum.  As I have stated in one of my videos. We have redesigned the pendulum to reduce air friction by over 95%. And when we can afford it ,  all bearings will be tefflon coated.
I tell you now with 100% knowlage (not thiory) anyone that is not sure of this machine or has second thoughts as to wether it works or not. Has not  operated one with his or her own hands.
I wil now formaly give an OPEN invatation to every one in this forum that has second thoughts as to this machine, to come to my home and try it out for yourself.

                       Raymond   RHead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Russell Lee on September 21, 2009, 06:20:49 PM
Hi Russell;;;   I really like the way you put that. 
"This new design is basically the ancient one with a twist-the pendulum, which means nothing but that it is a variant of the original."

Like the F-!4  Tom-cat is basically the ancient one with a twist-  better aerodynamic design, Aluminum Alloys, and jets that can produce many more pounds of throust per pound of engne weight.instead of the old prop planes.
I am with you all the way Buddy.  There is nothing new on this earth.  Only improvements to old ideas.
Purly for the sack of discution.  Let us say. The machine does not put out more energy than is put in.  AND, At the same time acknowlage the given Fact that it operates Exactly oposet of every other machine on this planet. In that the more resistance is put on the machine the easyer it is to operate.  Would this not mean that there is "A POSSABILATY"  that it just might, or could be,  THE most effeciant machine ever designed to this date.
I proposs ;;;;;    IF; it is possible. Then it is worth my time to look into. And any constructive sugjestions you could come up with would be welcomed with OPEN arms.
I honestly say to you. Your sugjestion that this may be an ancient design with a twist- the pendulum.   This thrills me to no end.  For IF, the pendulum is an improvement on the old design.  Then maybe we need to improve the penduluim next.  And seeing as the pendulum has been around for some time now.  Maybe it is time to think 'IMPROVEMENT" of the pendulum.  As I have stated in one of my videos. We have redesigned the pendulum to reduce air friction by over 95%. And when we can afford it ,  all bearings will be tefflon coated.
I tell you now with 100% knowlage (not thiory) anyone that is not sure of this machine or has second thoughts as to wether it works or not. Has not  operated one with his or her own hands.
I wil now formaly give an OPEN invatation to every one in this forum that has second thoughts as to this machine, to come to my home and try it out for yourself.

                       Raymond   RHead100
  Easy brother, improvements to established designs is not in question.  The only reason I put up that message was to just bring out that this design has been around for centuries, and that in those centuries it has basically remained the same without improvement. 
I truely hope you have the invention of the century on your hands, and that it changes mankind's estate.
  The F 14 flies just like the old one, but it still doesn't fly without fuel.  The Chinese Spoon-Tilt Hammer couldn't run forever by itself, by saying yours is overunity, your saying it will-big difference.  This is a major difference that, if correct, will change humanity, feed the hungry, bring energy to the world for medicine/food storage, and probably hundreds of other things.
  Skepticism is a requirement in engineering, it was important to let others know that this isn't a brand new thing, I do not doubt that it possibly could be made to work as you say, but up till now, nobody has been able to do it for centuries. 
  Until it is running by itself and not just pumping water, it's difficult to believe it is overunity.  Closing the loop is the whole game, overunity does that.
                       I pray that you achieve this for all of us.
                                                          -Russ
                                       
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 21, 2009, 06:48:14 PM
  Easy brother, improvements to established designs is not in question.  The only reason I put up that message was to just bring out that this design has been around for centuries, and that in those centuries it has basically remained the same without improvement. 
I truely hope you have the invention of the century on your hands, and that it changes mankind's estate.
  The F 14 flies just like the old one, but it still doesn't fly without fuel.  The Chinese Spoon-Tilt Hammer couldn't run forever by itself, by saying yours is overunity, your saying it will-big difference.  This is a major difference that, if correct, will change humanity, feed the hungry, bring energy to the world for medicine/food storage, and probably hundreds of other things.
  Skepticism is a requirement in engineering, it was important to let others know that this isn't a brand new thing, I do not doubt that it possibly could be made to work as you say, but up till now, nobody has been able to do it for centuries. 
  Until it is running by itself and not just pumping water, it's difficult to believe it is overunity.  Closing the loop is the whole game, overunity does that.
                       I pray that you achieve this for all of us.
                                                          -Russ
                                       
Thanks Russ;;  I had a feeling you were on my side.. Thanks .
I am just too close to stop now.
I am truely blessed to have friends like you and the others here Rooting for me.

       Raymond     RHEAD100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Xaverius on September 21, 2009, 08:30:51 PM
Great work Raymond!  You've made excellent progress since December when I last contacted you.  Your theory and ideas are sound so DON'T listen to any naysayers.  They will argue until the end of time that Free Energy isn't possible, but your videos prove differant.  Please keep up the positive attitude, a lot of us are pulling for you.  Naboo is right, watch your back, there are lots of losers out there that want you to fail.  Also, thanks for the reference to VanderWaals videos, I have been searching for several months for Lego clock/pendulum/mechanical mechanism videos for months, so you've saved me some effort.  Best of luck in Closing The Loop and please keep up the good work!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 21, 2009, 10:11:02 PM
Before anyone gets too goo-goo about this machine I suggest they inspect the design of the ancient Chinese spoon-tilt hammer.  This new design is basically the ancient one with a twist-the pendulum, which means nothing but that it is a variant of the original.  It is also similar to other ancient machines like the Oliver (treadle hammer), and the Shadouf (Swape).

Maybe such pendulum machine with great efficiency existed many years ago... maybe the pyramids were built in that way... and now we forgot that technology... Even Milkovic doesn't discard such possibility:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Milkovic_Oscillator_in_Prehistoric_Times.jpg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 22, 2009, 01:16:16 AM
Great work Raymond!  You've made excellent progress since December when I last contacted you.  Your theory and ideas are sound so DON'T listen to any naysayers.  They will argue until the end of time that Free Energy isn't possible, but your videos prove differant.  Please keep up the positive attitude, a lot of us are pulling for you.  Naboo is right, watch your back, there are lots of losers out there that want you to fail.  Also, thanks for the reference to VanderWaals videos, I have been searching for several months for Lego clock/pendulum/mechanical mechanism videos for months, so you've saved me some effort.  Best of luck in Closing The Loop and please keep up the good work!
Thanks Xaverius ;   Glade I could help. And thanks for the incuragment.
As for the naysayers, those dumb asses would not know fee energy if it hit them in the ass with a board.  Energy IS free.  It's the dang machine that converts it ti useable energy that coasts money.  The wind blows free. But it does not make electicity nor does it grind corn.  Windmills convert it to useable power.
 I have said many times,  the 2 stage oscillator does NOT make energy from nothing. AND it is not perpetual.  It will ,  like any wind mill, water damn or coal or gas fired boiler,   need maintanience.  Sombody is going to have to build it.  And somebody is going to have to maintain it.
Damn;;;  Aint life great.  Look at all the new jobs we just created.   OOOHH  shit;; I just used that Nasty,  7 letter word. (CREATED).  Hay;;  Before all you naysayers get all bent out of shape ,  I did not say from NOTHING.   HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

                       Raymond   RHead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Xaverius on September 22, 2009, 06:20:21 AM
Thanks Xaverius ;   Glade I could help. And thanks for the incuragment.
As for the naysayers, those dumb asses would not know fee energy if it hit them in the ass with a board.  Energy IS free.  It's the dang machine that converts it ti useable energy that coasts money.  The wind blows free. But it does not make electicity nor does it grind corn.  Windmills convert it to useable power.
 I have said many times,  the 2 stage oscillator does NOT make energy from nothing. AND it is not perpetual.  It will ,  like any wind mill, water damn or coal or gas fired boiler,   need maintanience.  Sombody is going to have to build it.  And somebody is going to have to maintain it.
Damn;;;  Aint life great.  Look at all the new jobs we just created.   OOOHH  shit;; I just used that Nasty,  7 letter word. (CREATED).  Hay;;  Before all you naysayers get all bent out of shape ,  I did not say from NOTHING.   HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

                       Raymond   RHead100
LOL!!!!  Good points and great attitude!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on September 22, 2009, 09:57:55 AM
...Energy IS free....

Same thing as "Allah is great".

Prove it.

The assertions of "free energy" from subscribers to the grid seem me always very suspicious  :-)))




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 23, 2009, 09:35:09 PM
Just in case anyone is interested. We have started back to work on the 2 stage oscillator and are building the towers to house the escapement mecanisums for the feed back system to try to compleat the loop.
If anyone has any ideas,  I am wide open to suggestions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_wQXJ41ks&feature=channel_page

        Raymond    RHead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: el-tigre on September 23, 2009, 10:01:08 PM
Hi Raymond,

The suggestion I had for an easy build is to fix a piston pump above and below the swing arm and have it pump water into a tank fixed above the pendulum.  Place a trip valve fed from the tank at the end of the pendulum arc and when the pendulum strikes it, the valve will dump an amount of water on the pendulum sufficient to propel it to max swing for another cycle.  This simple method takes care of all timing issues, and you can easily measure your results. If the water level in the tank goes up over time you have demonstrated over unity.  If the level drops, you start again.    This simple rig permits lots of variation in pump size, stroke length etc. etc. to ensure you get maximum output deposited into your holding tank.    I wanted to build this one myself but, sigh, no time this season.  Good luck.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on September 23, 2009, 10:28:15 PM
Raymond,  I like your style.  You don't let assumptions get in the way of facts. 

You didn't hear this from me, but mounting your pendulum's pivot point on a small, well lubricated trolley can improve your situation considerably.  As your pendulum weight reaches it's zenith at each swing, the trolley can be moved in the 'opposite' direction for a well timed, though nominal fee.  One that is more than paid each time your 'stock' hits the bottom.

Good day and God bless,

TS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Xaverius on September 23, 2009, 10:34:09 PM
Just in case anyone is interested. We have started back to work on the 2 stage oscillator and are building the towers to house the escapement mecanisums for the feed back system to try to compleat the loop.
If anyone has any ideas,  I am wide open to suggestions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_wQXJ41ks&feature=channel_page

        Raymond    RHead100
Nice work Raymond, I too have been researching the escapement/clock movement theory for the feedback loop.  If I come up with any new information I'll let you know.  Good job!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 24, 2009, 04:37:55 PM
Hi fellows;  This is a copy of an e-mail I sent to Mr. Milkovic this morning.  I will post the responce as soon as I recieve it.  He always respondes to my e-mails. But it does take a little time as he has to have them translated into his native toung (Serbian).   SO;  Don't get your painties in na wadd if it take a few days.  HAHAHA  !!!!!!!


Mr.  Milkovic;
 
Dear Sir;;;    I have uploaded three videos to you tube.  The first two are of a video that you already have but has been split so it will fit  on you tube.  The only differance is that in the discription to the right of the video  has  a little more detail as to the understanding of the importance of the leingth of the pendulum Verses it's power out put in time relation.
Please read the discription to the right of the first two videos and let me know your views on this mater.
 
The third video is a new one and at this time not of much importance.  We are back,  working on the 2 stage oscillator and getting ready to try and compleit the loop to have it power itself.
 
Please foregive my Boldness.  But when,  (not if)   I complet the feed back loop and have the machine powering itself.  I will reviel to the world. My designs and plans for a multie phayse  2 stage oscillator that will produce many times more power per unit size. With  much less strain and vibration on the main framwork.
 
I said in one of my videos that   " every time I try something new with the 2 stage oscillator. It never fails to amaze me."
I have tried many more new things after that video and my words still hold true to this day.  Every thing new that I try .   Meets or exceeds my expectations.
I am  100%  sure. Any attempt to make the machine power itself that fails.  Proves, only, ONE THING.   "The attempt was flawed.".
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMq53NPttUk&feature=channel_page
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQv1Z6Tbyus&feature=channel_page
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_wQXJ41ks&feature=channel_page
 
 
                                     Your most dedacated fan, and student     Raymond L. Head
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 27, 2009, 06:43:44 PM
As promised, I am posting the responces from Mr. Milkovic on my e-mails to him on the 24th of Sept. 2009.  There were two e-mail responces.
One on the new video of the larger fram for the escapement towers. And the other on the discription to the right of the videos "A&B" about the higher the pendulum the more weight it will pick up.

First E-Mail;;;
Dear Raymond Head,
 
thank you for informing us on your progress.
 
We are very glad to see you are making a new bigger prototype and that you are working very hard.
We will carefully follow up your work and we will also inform you on our progress and results.
 
My opinion is that you are researching very good - you are considering and examining the subject very practically and patiently and that can only lead to success.
Many people has just empty phrases, but only through concrete practical work and tests, as you are doing, this invention can be successfully researched and developed toward our common goal.
 
Your results so far are more than obvious. You did a lot and you have already achieved the mechanical overunity.
I can just wish you keep up the excellent work. I wish you good health and good luck in future work.
 
I must admit you are the most successful in examining this pendulum-lever system and its effects. You got to the heart of a matter!
You absolutely proved free energy with your experiments and those who didn't see it they were not honest!
 
Yours sincerely.
Veljko Milkovic

 

 Second E-Mail;;
Dear Raymond Head,

 our Analytical Team has considered your video descriptions and we would like to comment both your observations:

 

1) The first one was about increasing output weight and thus also output energy with the same input energy and raising starting angle of the pendulum. Yes, it is very logical for us because with initial raising of the starting angle of the pendulum, the pendulum will receive more potential energy and after turning it into kinetic energy at low position its speed will be higher and also centrifugal force will be stronger and able to lift up more weight.

 

Some people keeps complaining about this initial raising of the pendulum and the energy the pendulum initially received. They claim that it was the reason why some people saw some over unity gain. Actually, they are right. The trick is in using this initial energy and to keep adding small amount after that. After some extended period of the time it is possible to disregard energy spent in initial raising of the pendulum. Of course, it also means that two stage oscillator should not be used for short period of the time because initial raising would tax the oscillator efficiency.

 

2) The second one was about increasing output energy by extending pendulum length. We actually never measured this and would like to encourage you and other people to do precise measuring of this fact. For us it is logical because by increasing the length of the pendulum two times its frequency would slow down 1.41 times (square root of two) and by increasing length 4 times its frequency (or the period of oscillation) would go down 2 times. The importance of slowing down the period of the oscillation is the fact that heavy weight can not be raised fast up because of its inertia. Some period of the time is necessary to give to the oscillator to raise the weight. Too fast oscillator can not raise heavy weights unless it was extremely powerful.

 

Sincerely,

 

Analytical Team of

Laboratory of Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillations Research

 

Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center

 

Bulevar cara Lazara 56

21000 Novi Sad

Serbia

e-mail: milkovic@neobee.net

web: www.veljkomilkovic.com

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 28, 2009, 12:03:15 AM
Nice replies, good to see the Milkovic team is supporting your efforts.

Regarding that second email. Increasing period also implies increasing initial height, or doesn't it? I seriously wonder where a same-height but doubled period will indeed lift a weight completely, or measurably higher. With a doubled period AND initial height, I would expect the lift to be higher. And indeed if a weight was not lifted completely before, a longer period and greater pendulum amplitude will surely increase the success odds.
Greatly looking forward to your findings with that monstrous(ly cool) device you're building.

Brain fart:
Imagine a relatively long period 1st stage pendulum. Before reaching the center of the swing, a linkage slacks the rod of the pendulum (allows it to extent under gravity and CF), and the pendulum weight dips sharply. Right after center, the linkage extension is reversed. We get the period of the long pedulum, and some added height from the dip in the center. More OU that usual, less, or the same?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 28, 2009, 03:07:08 PM
Nice replies, good to see the Milkovic team is supporting your efforts.

Regarding that second email. Increasing period also implies increasing initial height, or doesn't it? I seriously wonder where a same-height but doubled period will indeed lift a weight completely, or measurably higher. With a doubled period AND initial height, I would expect the lift to be higher. And indeed if a weight was not lifted completely before, a longer period and greater pendulum amplitude will surely increase the success odds.
Greatly looking forward to your findings with that monstrous(ly cool) device you're building.

Brain fart:
Imagine a relatively long period 1st stage pendulum. Before reaching the center of the swing, a linkage slacks the rod of the pendulum (allows it to extent under gravity and CF), and the pendulum weight dips sharply. Right after center, the linkage extension is reversed. We get the period of the long pedulum, and some added height from the dip in the center. More OU that usual, less, or the same?
I'm Sorry Cloxxki  ;;  But something in your first statment tells me you do not understand the 2 stage oscillator ,  at all.
The power bar is a normal every day lever and it's math is directly proportional.  The power of the pendulum is it's leingth and weight and THAT is exponintal.
The leingth of the pendulum is it's timing and that is directly proportional.
The movment of the pivot point of the pendulm is the extraction point of the power produced by the pendulum. And this movment is a real loss of penulum power BUT it is exponintial.
It is vital that you pick up the max weight with the minamale movement of the pivot point of the pendulum.
To pick up 50 pounds 2 inches is the exact same thing as picking up 100 pounds 1 inch.
For experimental perposes. Almost any pendulum any leingth will work.
However ;;  If you need a particuler job done.  You will need to build the machine ti fit that job.
For example;;;;      I want a force of 25 pounds applied for a distance of 4 inches every two seconds.  I would need a four to one ratio power bar. A two meter pendulum swing. And a pendulum heavy enough to pick up 100 pounds 1 inch. @ a one to one ratio.A 50 to 60 pound pendulum would probably work very well here.This would allow the pivot point of the pendulum to move one inch up & down.
If we double the weight of the pendulum (leaving it's size and shape the same) it will have the same air friction with no need for incressed power input. However the power loss of the up and down motion IS doubled. So we reduce the up and down motion by half and double the ratio of the power bar and the needed input powr is reduced by 65 %. And you get the samre work out of the machine.
As you increes the leingth of the pendulum. You also incress the distance and speed it travles. Incressing air drag.  That is why on very larg machines it would be a great advantage to have a well aerodiamicaly designed pendulum.

    Raymond   RHead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 28, 2009, 04:35:42 PM
It is vital that you pick up the max weight with the minimal movement of the pivot point of the pendulum.
To pick up 50 pounds 2 inches is the exact same thing as picking up 100 pounds 1 inch.

Exactly! This is what I was talking about further back in the tread, when I said that the pendulum was only drained by distance and not by force. No matter what kind of work you do with the 2-stage oscillator, as long as the distance traveled by the pendulum pivot is low, then there will be little energy lost from the pendulum, which you can compensate for by oscillating it at its resonant frequency.

My view is that this is an universal concept, and that there are many ways in which it could be used, and some where it already is (excluding the Milkovic pendulum).
Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 28, 2009, 07:17:39 PM
I'm Sorry Cloxxki  ;;  But something in your first statment tells me you do not understand the 2 stage oscillator ,  at all.
The power bar is a normal every day lever and it's math is directly proportional.  The power of the pendulum is it's leingth and weight and THAT is exponintal.
The leingth of the pendulum is it's timing and that is directly proportional.
The movment of the pivot point of the pendulm is the extraction point of the power produced by the pendulum. And this movment is a real loss of penulum power BUT it is exponintial.
It is vital that you pick up the max weight with the minamale movement of the pivot point of the pendulum.
To pick up 50 pounds 2 inches is the exact same thing as picking up 100 pounds 1 inch.
For experimental perposes. Almost any pendulum any leingth will work.
However ;;  If you need a particuler job done.  You will need to build the machine ti fit that job.
For example;;;;      I want a force of 25 pounds applied for a distance of 4 inches every two seconds.  I would need a four to one ratio power bar. A two meter pendulum swing. And a pendulum heavy enough to pick up 100 pounds 1 inch. @ a one to one ratio.A 50 to 60 pound pendulum would probably work very well here.This would allow the pivot point of the pendulum to move one inch up & down.
If we double the weight of the pendulum (leaving it's size and shape the same) it will have the same air friction with no need for incressed power input. However the power loss of the up and down motion IS doubled. So we reduce the up and down motion by half and double the ratio of the power bar and the needed input powr is reduced by 65 %. And you get the samre work out of the machine.
As you increes the leingth of the pendulum. You also incress the distance and speed it travles. Incressing air drag.  That is why on very larg machines it would be a great advantage to have a well aerodiamicaly designed pendulum.

    Raymond   RHead100
Thanks for the elaboration Raymond. I think I understand some of the 2-stage oscillator, but my sleep deprived English may have been unclear as to the amendment I was proposing.

For a non-stop working device (free energy power generator), I will agree that it is vital to bring down air drag. I do however heel that if something is 1200% efficient, air drag is the least of the concern to breach unity, unless the device is a mechanical butterfly.
I'm looking forward to seeing you bring that math into reality. If you do you are my hero, and I will dedicate serious time in finding further improvement based on the Raymond Device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rhead100 on September 29, 2009, 12:32:20 AM
Cloxxki ;   Sometimes I can sound a little Ainal.  But;;    that is only the writen word. It can not show facial exprestion or tone of voice.  You are my friend first. And in no way did I mean any disrespect.

      Raymond   RHead100
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 29, 2009, 12:51:06 PM
Cloxxki ;   Sometimes I can sound a little Ainal.  But;;    that is only the writen word. It can not show facial exprestion or tone of voice.  You are my friend first. And in no way did I mean any disrespect.

      Raymond   RHead100
No offence Raymond, even if you'd have meant it in a bad way. Some humility never hurt a man in search of greatness.
I may not always agree with doers like yourself (difference of opinion is the best chance to learn), but at least you DO, so I should keep a modest tone. Most of my ideas are blank shots. Sometimes I hit though, which makes the blanks worth it. Just a pain for you if you're getting only blanks from me :-)

I am actually very on the same page as you, I have a deeply founded belief that we can beat unity in a meachnical setup "tricking" weight/velocity/distance/height ratio's. Perhaps indeed the Milkovic invention can be "milked" off as you propose. The solution to THE problem would come from a different dymanic than I instictively expected, but it could also mean there are more ways to rome, and this would certainly help us locate the forgotten secret road going from the roundabout in the dark forest.
As a side note, I have great faith in Abeling-like gravity wheels, the dynamics intrigue me. And the guy seems to be very sincere. If it does, both may work on the same principle, but the pendulum if possible even complicates it all.
Furthermore, if it works, research will be required to create high-frequency systems. Like, a wheel, or OU rollercoaster with steel balls.

Looking forward to your updates,

J
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 29, 2009, 04:27:13 PM
Indeed Jim, your wheels stop so abrubtly that a strong force must have been rubbed against its feathers. Obviously you're getting closer yourself ;-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on September 29, 2009, 05:04:23 PM
I'm building a setup myself.  Although it is not as grand as Raymond's.  My pendulum is only 16" long and the design is my own, not Milkovic's.  But it operates on the same principle except my pivot point does not move.  I'll let you know how it works once finished.

Charlie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 29, 2009, 05:09:17 PM
I'm building a setup myself.  Although it is not as grand as Raymond's.  My pendulum is only 16" long and the design is my own, not Milkovic's.  But it operates on the same principle except my pivot point does not move.  I'll let you know how it works once finished.

Charlie

A sketch would be interesting to see  ;D
I would be really interested to see how you countered the pivot action...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on September 29, 2009, 05:27:57 PM
I'll try to get a sketch up when I get time.  Sorry I'm at work and can't do it right now.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 29, 2009, 05:43:14 PM
I'll try to get a sketch up when I get time.  Sorry I'm at work and can't do it right now.

Hey no hurry! Just interested when you have the time, new ideas and angels are very helpful.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 30, 2009, 09:22:29 PM
We should contact these guys to hear their opinion
http://www.arts.unsw.edu.au/pendulum/

They are the pendulum experts and they, as scientists dedicated to the research of the pendulum motion, must be interested to see/consider if there is something new related to the pendulum.
 
They shouldn't ignore the existence of this effect because we don't talk here about the theory or mathematical models - we are dealing here with the real models built and everyone can see there is "something" new here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on September 30, 2009, 11:02:06 PM
We should contact these guys to hear their opinion
http://www.arts.unsw.edu.au/pendulum/

They are the pendulum experts and they, as scientists dedicated to the research of the pendulum motion, must be interested to see/consider if there is something new related to the pendulum.
 
They shouldn't ignore the existence of this effect because we don't talk here about the theory or mathematical models - we are dealing here with the real models built and everyone can see there is "something" new here.

There is nothing new here.  What you have is a pendulum and a see-saw.  Eventually it stops moving, like predicted.

This is no different from chaos pendulums.  Search for some on youtube and you will see.  To the untrained, they may look impressive and overunity-like, but there is not free energy there, and none here.

Here is one of many examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whvl6CikDxA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whvl6CikDxA)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on September 30, 2009, 11:13:05 PM
Utilitarian's right....it's a baa-aaad idea....nothing to see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whvl6CikDxA

moo-oove along.


Utilitarian you sly dog, you.


P.S. Where's the 'chaos'?  Looks highly ordered to me.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on September 30, 2009, 11:20:03 PM
Utilitarian, you must stop assuming that we are all still at the basics here, not understanding anything about physics in general. As everyone knows, yes this thing will stop if you push it and leave it alone, friction exists in all mechanical systems.

Secondly we know there is loss in this system, there is in fact energy lost when it is used to provide mechanical power, nobody here (or at least most) disagrees with this.

But the reason why this is not the usual active power versus reactive power (like emf and back emf caused by Lenz's law), or friction against physical work, is that his machine is designed to use the parametrically "induced" oscillation from the pendulum to power the hinge, and it is not as simple as you might expect. A more careful investigation of its operation shows this...

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on September 30, 2009, 11:42:45 PM

But the reason why this is not the usual active power versus reactive power (like emf and back emf caused by Lenz's law), or friction against physical work, is that his machine is designed to use the parametrically "induced" oscillation from the pendulum to power the hinge, and it is not as simple as you might expect. A more careful investigation of its operation shows this...

Julian

And how is this different from a chaos pendulum?

OK, go ahead and approach a scientist about this.  You will not get even a raised eyebrow.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 01, 2009, 12:53:40 AM
Quote
And how is this different from a chaos pendulum?

OK, go ahead and approach a scientist about this.  You will not get even a raised eyebrow.

A true scientist, if approached with this invention, and if he had the knowledge which could help him grasp the aspects cowered in it, would respond with intriguing interest and ask questions as to why it can do what I claim it to do. If he however, like most in the established scientific community has been learned and taught from the beginning that some things are impossible and that some things should never be questioned, then he will eventually like the kid who was bullied from childhood begin to take the role as the bully, or as the scientist with his unquestionable authority.

I call this dogma, on the same level as religion. We are then weighting the evidence against the important rules and laws that we have been taught, and the laws wins.


Back to the question. What makes you think that this has anything to do with the chaos pendulum?
Please explain why and then we could discuss further.
I'm not trying to be rude here, but lets keep the focus where it should be, and not on unrelated subjects.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 01, 2009, 01:21:55 AM
I'm a scientist, and I am interested in this.  In fact, I'm working on this project (on the side) with two other co-workers (I have a PhD in electrical engineering, my two co-workers have PhDs in physics and biology).  They are both interested in it as well.  We all work in research at a national laboratory which would qualify us as "scientists".  So I think to say "a scientist would not raise an eyebrow" is a very erroneous statement. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on October 01, 2009, 07:55:47 PM
I'm a scientist, and I am interested in this.  In fact, I'm working on this project (on the side) with two other co-workers (I have a PhD in electrical engineering, my two co-workers have PhDs in physics and biology).  They are both interested in it as well.  We all work in research at a national laboratory which would qualify us as "scientists".  So I think to say "a scientist would not raise an eyebrow" is a very erroneous statement.

You're kidding me, right?  You guys are studying this pendulum attached to a teeter-totter like it is something new and interesting?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 01, 2009, 08:35:49 PM
You're kidding me, right?  You guys are studying this pendulum attached to a teeter-totter like it is something new and interesting?
You're kidding us?! The pendulum itself and lever itself are old things - even from the ancient times, but the effects happening when these simple machines are combined are totally NEW. I didn't find any source or example where the pendulum is attached to the lever in such a way. If you did please show us or don't post such nonsense.

The good proof if something is new or not is when you apply for a patent. The patent engineers need to do very deep search through the state of the technique before they grant a patent to someone. I see more than 20 patents for this pendulum-lever system:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/PatentiEng.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on October 01, 2009, 11:21:45 PM
Many highly creative types are ego driven.  Perhaps Utilitarian, as do many others, knows this....

The old, "I'll show you" goaded to action.

Truth is, Milkovic ain't far off and many know it.  It's just that relative few care, and are prepared, to throw down and go all "old school" on the problem at this late hour.

And there ain't know school, like the old school.

Blessings in Christ,


TS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 01, 2009, 11:36:33 PM
Quote
You're kidding me, right?  You guys are studying this pendulum attached to a teeter-totter like it is something new and interesting?

Hahahaha, who said we were studying a pendulum attached to a teeter-totter?  If you read a few posts up I said I was working on something of my own design yet related.  The problem with the pendulum and a teeter-totter is that the pivot point moves, so this damps the teeter-totter.  Now what happens when you design something where the pivot point is fixed, the load is driven with centripetal force that does not damp the pendulum?  This is an interesting thing that we are looking into.  Is there new physics, probably not, is it a new application, maybe.  You gotta stay open minded or you'll never amount to anything in this field.

By the way, there are guys that I work with whose entire career is modeling cantilevers (aka a diving boards).  Yup that's right, entire scientific career modeling diving boards - research is research, no matter how great or small.

Charlie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 02, 2009, 01:14:25 AM
I'm a scientist, and I am interested in this.  In fact, I'm working on this project (on the side) with two other co-workers (I have a PhD in electrical engineering, my two co-workers have PhDs in physics and biology).  They are both interested in it as well.  We all work in research at a national laboratory which would qualify us as "scientists".  So I think to say "a scientist would not raise an eyebrow" is a very erroneous statement.

You are the scientist according to Wikipedia  :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist

Here is what one of your colleagues has just said about this invention:

Prof. Nebojsa Simin, a Serbian physicist, has addressed the scientific community and public with an open letter and call for official examination of Veljko Milkovic’s oscillating pendulum-lever system and "obviousness" of mechanical energy surplus showing in the work of this mechanical device.

Nebojsa Simin - “Energy surplus” in pendulum and two-arm lever system

"The two-stage oscillatory pendulum-lever system phenomenon has been out of interest of the official science up until recently. In physics, this system is actually still unknown or not studied. Science does not have an answer to a decade long pressure from a group of scientists, who have been trying to indicate to a potential importance of this two-stage oscillatory system as a possible unconventional source of energy...
This is not the idea that defies the conservation of energy law. If it was the case, a serious researcher would first have to ask himself where the mistake is, before making any further steps in making the physical model. The question asked is not why the machine conceived in such a way cannot work as a perpetuum mobile. On the contrary. The question is why that is still possible, given the fact that energy conversion efficiency of the existing machine is obviously higher than one. The raised question is whether it is possible that our own eyes are deceiving us..."

FULL TEXT: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Nebojsa_Simin_Energy_Surplus_Phenomenon.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 02, 2009, 03:14:27 AM
From Wikipedia
Quote
any person who engages in a systematic activity to acquire knowledge
  This I highly agree with and in this sense we are all scientists (which we are, degrees and where you work doesn't make you any better than someone at home - don't think any different either). 

Also from Wikipedia
Quote
an individual that engages in such practices and traditions that are linked to schools of thought or philosophy.
  This I DO NOT agree with, and in fact engaging in traditions linked to schools of thought are where the majority of present day science is going wrong.  You have to be able to question the establishment.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on October 02, 2009, 03:25:24 AM
Good point, afterall.....college graduates have led the 'civilized' world to the edge of the precipice it finds itself teetering on today.


Blessings in Jesus Christ,


TS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: markdansie on October 02, 2009, 11:02:13 AM
nothing here
time to go home girls and boys
unless?
some one figures out how to close loop it
but alas
remember Budda is a good freind of Jesus
kind regards
Mark
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 02, 2009, 12:51:55 PM
some one figures out how to close loop it

hello mark

with 12 times more output than input why they can not close the loop ?

very easy ... all this stuff is conservative ...
I think that Newton can sleep soundly for hundred or thousand years more
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 02, 2009, 01:03:22 PM
Quote
with 12 times more output than input why they can not close the loop ?

with 12 times more output than input ...
you can convert electrical energy in mecanical enegy with bad COP
then you can convert  mecanical enegy in heat with bad COP
then you can convert  heat in mecanical enegy with bad COP
then you can convert  mecanical enegy in electrical energy with bad COP
and so on ...
and to finish you get a COP > 1 ... so easy
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: markdansie on October 02, 2009, 01:03:43 PM
@Tagor
I agree with you let bury this puppy.
Mark
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 02, 2009, 01:48:17 PM
Tagor, we might not yet have gotten there, but people are working to close the feedback loop.
I think it is a serious mistake to take mechanics and simple geometry as more limited than electricity and magnetism. It all constitutes particles, which together with forces that are yet to be completely understood governs the physical reality that we know.

Do not feel certain that Newton's laws works perfectly in every instance...

Take a spinning wheel for example, and then try to conserve the total momentum which was used to spin it.....  Spin is the law of nature

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 02, 2009, 02:56:32 PM

Take a spinning wheel for example, and then try to conserve the total momentum which was used to spin it.....  Spin is the law of nature

Julian
I thought the CF was supposed to not be a real force, just a potential? Until the wheel gives way to it, there is no work downe. When the work is done, the CF falls away.
That's not to say I have conceeded, it's a puzzle solution that's been staring us in the face.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 02, 2009, 03:31:35 PM
I thought the CF was supposed to not be a real force, just a potential? Until the wheel gives way to it, there is no work downe. When the work is done, the CF falls away.
That's not to say I have conceeded, it's a puzzle solution that's been staring us in the face.

I'm not talking about centrifugal force, even if that is very interesting.
Newton's third law states that for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.
Meaning that if you supposedly floated in space, and then threw some object away, the momentum that you gave it, because of the energy you expended, would also give you the same but opposite momentum. This could be your rescue if you were an astronaut who got lost from the ship....

However since there are supposedly no other forces to interact with in deep space, you should never be able to create such a motion which results in a total acceleration, without propelling some object away from you. And if you did trow something away (a wrench for example), conservation of momentum should cause the center of mass between you and the wrench to stay just the same as from the start (if no other forces interacts and change this).

Now.... What happens if the same astronaut applies a force in one direction to accelerate a wheel which he is holding? If momentum is conserved, then that force used to accelerate the wheel should also accelerate the astronaut in the opposite direction. But what has happened to the center of mass? Instead of equal amounts of momentum going in both directions away from each other, one is going forward while one is spinning around.

That astronaut could now even decelerate the wheel in opposite direction as when he accelerated it, and gain even more momentum in the same direction, actually the double of what he started with. He did work, then he collected the same work back again, but while doing so he also created a total acceleration without an opposite deceleration.

This is called a reaction-less drive and it is real. Gyroscopes has these kinds of qualities which allows them to do similar stunts. I would recommend you to check out Walter Lewin's lecture about gyroscopes on youtube, MIT is releasing most of their lectures for free there.


There is something more to matter then what simple mechanical physics is telling us.....
Julian
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 02, 2009, 04:28:45 PM
I can imagine this situation:
A spaceship hangs dead in space, broken engine. New wheel shapped part needed in the engine. Astronaut goes for a walk on the outer hull. Magnetic boots malfunction and for a short instance repell. there the astronaut goes at speed V, and the spaceship the other way at speed V/1000.
The astonaut ties the wheel on his bag, and makes swimming motions, to no avail.
Then he takes the wheel, and spins it up. It having aerospace sped bearings, it can absorb vast amounts of energy. Astronaut needs to use alternating hands to prevent his own spinning, to not lose track of the spaceship drifting away from him (her). At exactly the right angle, the astronaut take an intentional blow to the helmet from the wheel, and starts catching up witht he spaceship. Yet, can (s)he grab the wheel and take it along, or will that even out to drifting away from the ship again? This is where a good biosteel wire would have come in handy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 02, 2009, 04:44:18 PM
Before I came to this conclusion about spin in general (after watching Walter Lewin's lecture), I have realized that the precession and resistance that a spinning wheel or gyroscope poses could be used to create a total acceleration. Its not that hard to see, but it may be hard control where you are going :D

But you could also use it the other way around. Instead, you attach both ends or handles of a bicycle wheel (space wheel  ;) ) with an attachment mechanism to the center of your own body. If you then begin to pull or push on the wheel to spin it, it will push on the middle of your mass, and thus only accelerate you forward/backward without creating a disorienting total spin.

You would then only need to push for an interval on the wheel, and then slow it down again on the opposite side (if it laid horizontally in relation to you) to create a propulsion in one direction.
Can you imagine this?

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on October 02, 2009, 07:26:24 PM
you can replace the magic hand with a servo motor at the pendulums pivot point.

all the magic hand is doing is replacing the stored energy that was lost on its return back to the magic hand. kinetic forces only store energy, once that energy is used up it will come to a stop.

all lost newtons will have to be replaced in order to keep the model going. there is no OU here, it is only stored kinetic energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 02, 2009, 07:47:03 PM
You are talking about the Milkovic pendulum right?

Well, I don't think that anyone at this point is denying that the pendulum will come to a stop once its kinetic energy is used up due to losses. However I do think that many would object if I said that the energy required to keep it running is the same or more than what it can output. But I wouldn't really call it overunity, just energy free for the taking.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Kator01 on October 03, 2009, 12:50:40 PM
Hi folks,

please go back to page 100, Reply #991 on and review I_RON measurements

Kator01
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 03, 2009, 01:37:15 PM
Hi folks,

please go back to page 100, Reply #991 on and review I_RON measurements

Kator01
You mean this, I suppose, making it easy for others to find it again:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf

Nice doc. I am however confused by the COP figure.
Is the lifted weight always a new weight, or the same weight that was given opportunity to help reset the system, or at least pick itself up after coming down, thus pretty much vertically oscillating (a state more than an output in my humble book)? If you always pick up a new weight and place these on a conveyor, it will be hard to get such figures, I'm afraid.
It can't be hard to calculate how much weight should be left on the shelf to be allowed to call it OU. I don't yet see how it could be looped, or even OU when expecting the device to actually do some repeated lifting without placing the weight back down all the time. The dropped weight is resetting he device, the way I see it.
Challenge: educate the dumb (me). How is there any efficiency at all, if we start with a weight on the floor, put in serious wattage, and end up with the same weigh on the floor, or at best a couple inches up, when it's been there 100 times before? If lifting the light pendulum once over height Y can lift the greater weight once to the same height, or multiple consecutive equal weights to similar height, I will be on my rooftop shooting into the world the proclamation of OU.
I've been called gullable and naive. Convince me :-)
I know Raymond is way serious into this, and his well-thought through approach with specific geoemtry and ratios has merit in my book, looking forward to his results, hoping he's got a way to trick Mother Nature.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 03, 2009, 05:15:10 PM
You aren't dumb Cloxxki, but this setup can be hard to understand, and especially if the way we load it is inconclusive, which some find it to be.

One demonstration video made by Milkovic which I liked very much is the one where he shows the difference of loading a 2-stage system from a 1-stage system. My opinion is that both are (or at least can be) driven by resonance, since they have their own resonant frequency. The problem with the 1-stage is that any work which it is made to do, will do the the same negative work back on it to stop it (opposite reaction).
This is because distance and force goes both ways, just like in all ordinary system.

The video I am talking about is where he shows a simple educational demonstration-set which could be bought (I think it can), where a vertical steel rod is suspending another bendable rod.

First he attaches a large piece of stiff paper on the end of the rod, pulls it a little up and lets it go.
The rod will then bounce up and down, but because of the large air resistance it will come to a stop very fast, almost immediately.

Then he attaches a small and simple pendulum to the bendable rod and let it swing. It will continue for long time without being excessively slowed by the load of the air resistance. In fact, because the 2 stage oscillator works the way it does, the more you would have loaded it (the larger the surface to push air), the longer it would take before the pendulum would stop. This is because it would limit the distance moved by the pendulum pivot even more.


I think this is a very good video to show the difference between normal oscillation (where if it is resonantly driven, it will always be drained by the same amount by which it does work), and a 2-stage or parametric oscillation (where it will be drained by distance only, and thus where resonance can be used to do much more work, if the distance on which it does work is kept the same or lower (which again can be done by increasing the load)).

So here is the point: increase the power of the pendulum, then increase the resistance of the load whatever it may be, and the total efficiency or COP of the system will go up.
This is the power of parametric resonance.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 03, 2009, 05:43:32 PM
The video I am talking about is where he shows a simple educational demonstration-set which could be bought (I think it can), where a vertical steel rod is suspending another bendable rod.

You should post the video link so that all of us know what you want to say - watch from 02:00 min
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8961722273257830738#
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 03, 2009, 05:54:10 PM
You should post the video link so that all of us know what you want to say - watch from 02:00 min
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8961722273257830738#

Sorry Merg, but I didn't really remember which video it was, thanks for posting it  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 03, 2009, 07:08:11 PM
Thanks for the link, had not seen it.

Around 7:30, this does not impress me. The paper is not waving like that one time when the wire is plucked. It seems safe to say (prove me wrong) that energy absorbed by the paper is exponential with amplitude. The the pendulum can move the wire and paper a bit, is not world shaking. It's not like it's a friggin' desktop fan now or anything.

EDIT
12:30. If it would fit, I'd put my pinky under there. I am not impressed with the hit of the hammer on the anvil.
14:00 Neutral position of the weight is already pressing the lamp in some, should that be considered?
16:00 one tap of the pendulum doesn't bring the whole systm in full oscillation, all that energy is stored in the multiple taps, it seems?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 03, 2009, 07:26:41 PM
Well the input power is not very much so you do not get that much out either.
Yes I agree with you, the energy needed to create a large amplitude in the string is large, but still it dies out almost immediately. The energy into the pendulum isn't very much but it does last a lot longer, and it does put out some work to move the air.

Now here is an experiment to think about, and it is probably more correct than the demonstration shown; take that paper and attach it to the pendulum instead. Now compare the air moved against the time it can keep moving. Then you do the previous experiment, with the paper on the string driven by the pendulum. I think this will show the difference between the two ways of using oscillation power better.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Xaverius on October 03, 2009, 07:45:50 PM
I haven't read this entire thread, but does anyone have any ideas on how to close the loop MECHANICALLY for proof of concept?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on October 03, 2009, 09:13:39 PM
The preferred way to close the loop, while extracting useful work, would be to devise a rotary system. While it is certainly possible to build a perpetual pendulum, the swing periods of themselves, do not create enough centrifugal force from which to reduce the required power.  Even a rotary system itself, would need to be of appreciable scale in order to extract advantageous power output.

When such a rotary system is evidenced, the greater possibilities may present themselves, as G force can be greatly amplified artificially.

TS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 03, 2009, 09:56:21 PM
The preferred way to close the loop, while extracting useful work, would be to devise a rotary system. While it is certainly possible to build a perpetual pendulum, the swing periods of themselves, do not create enough centrifugal force from which to reduce the required power.  Even a rotary system itself, would need to be of appreciable scale in order to extract advantageous power output.

When such a rotary system is evidenced, the greater possibilities may present themselves, as G force can be greatly amplified artificially.

TS

Techstuf, I have such a rotary system idealized, and much more simplified and efficient, but the truth is that I really suck at doing mechanical work. My biggest obstacle for the project is cleaning and lubricating a ball bearing :D

But the rest of the design is really straightforward. I have just removed myself from advocating this idea because of my own restrictions, but maybe someone could help me with it or even try to build what I had in mind? It doesn't require very much, and the whole thing was supposed to be "glued" together by epoxy.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on October 03, 2009, 10:28:01 PM

Well, you've come to the right place!  I can put you in touch with Steorn straightaway....

lol

As for your epoxy troubles, might I recommend Finsrud, as I'm sure he has overcome his difficulties!


 :D


TS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 03, 2009, 10:30:19 PM
I haven't read this entire thread, but does anyone have any ideas on how to close the loop MECHANICALLY for proof of concept?

Closing the loop mechanically would not be what we are looking for - it seems it is not easy task or maybe impossible. Since you are not familiar with the whole discussion, I will recommend you to read this paper where author has nicely described what were the obstacles to close the loop in that way...

Jovan Marjanovic - Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions for the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 03, 2009, 10:33:37 PM
This quote tells everything

"This is technically simple, but it should not be approached lightly. - Veljko Milkovic"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 03, 2009, 10:46:40 PM
http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/thedualhydraulicoscillator (http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/thedualhydraulicoscillator)

http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/2-stagehydraulicoscillator1.jpg/2-stagehydraulicoscillator1-full;init:.jpg (http://naboo.ws.googlepages.com/2-stagehydraulicoscillator1.jpg/2-stagehydraulicoscillator1-full;init:.jpg)

Merg, as I told Techstuf, I believe I have found an extremely simple and efficient way to close the loop mechanically, but you have to be able to open your mind a bit for new versions of the classical design.


Primarily, I want to do it with water! Yes that's right, or of course it could be oil, as long as it is thin.
I am using the same forces as in the pendulum: Input power goes into angular acceleration, while output power comes from the centrifugal force it creates. In this setup the centrifugally pressurized water is used to directly accelerate the rotor by functioning as jets. This will point in opposite direction of the rotation, and thus push it faster.  The whole idea really came to me when I was reading a post on the energetic forum by Ted Evert, so it is primarily his design.

Start power can either by supplied by rotating it around fast enough by a motor, or if it is a small prototype, the power of water-pressure should be enough.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 03, 2009, 11:43:19 PM
Julian,
Although I fail to see the connection (OK, you're using CF), I totally like it and Ted's work on the field I've read.
Seems you'll be looking for a jet nozzle speed greater than the jet's velocity air speed spinning around the axis, right? I wonder if that's possible, when mass moving outward also slows the rotor down. Plus the water needs to be pumped upwards first? If it's not a self running, but more efficient that a regular gravity water turbine, that will be fine accomplishment for me as well. More interesting to watch also.
What if a tall column of water could feed this? All the pressure you want, before you even add spin.
Anyway, hope you'll get it to spin soon!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 04, 2009, 12:13:55 AM
This idea is really interesting I'll tell you that ;)

But first of all (and I got the same question from Ted Evert btw) it is in every way related to the 2-stage oscillator. What is the biggest characteristic of the 2-stage oscillator? The more you load it, the less you drain its stored kinetic energy. If there is no load what-so-ever it will loose all the energy instantly, try to imagine that with pendulum and you'll see. Also if there is infinite resistance (full load) then there will be no loss what-so-ever (if we look away from minor friction and such).

Now that same thing will happen with the 2-stage hydraulic oscillator  ;)
If no water is let out at all, it will be just as if there was no movement of the pendulum pivot at all, and thus only minor losses. If you allow more and more water out however, there will be more water sucked in which needs to be angularly accelerated, and this is what drains its kinetic energy.
And again it is only displacement and not force that drains it, so you could say that there is two separate systems which by changing both's parameters are powering and draining each other.

But the "secret" is that it is done in the 2-stage fashion, which opens for the possibility of changing the amount of work needed to drive one system, which then indirectly powers the second one.


About the pumping. Since this will be spinning, or when it eventually is rotated around, centrifugal force will both force the water out at its periphery, and because this water is forced out a huge under-pressure will be created in the center, and this will suck water with great power, depending of the speed of course.

Also one last thing. It is not the speed against its surrounding environment which is important to the water jets, but only their relative speed against the speed of the rotating rotor. Even if it may seem slow from our perspective it will have great speed away from the rotor  :)


But best of all the whole thing is very easy to put together, and epoxy is great because it is superhuman strong, but doesn't require to be welded (and could thus rust).

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 04, 2009, 12:44:06 AM
It seems I understood its working correctly, yet when you explain it this way, it seems much more clever! :-)
Ah, so you'r saying the water in the jet is already traveling at the periphery velocity, thus a mere low-pressure release would already nett good thrust? I suppose that it true, even if it feels all wrong. Makes me re-think jets altogether actually. How fast ARE everyday jets emitting their exhaust ballast?
The Mythbusters taxi-blown-away-by-jet-engine was mighty spectacular, but perhaps indeed not in the mach range? Hmmm, this lends your device much more merit, I must hand that to you.
So, next, you'll be looking for a greater CF than the height over which the inlet liquid is pumped? And, for the eventual thrust to be greater than the energy (vacume?) required to run the inlet pump.
Is it my misconception, or does this make a larger wheel diameter perform better? Great height o overcome+small diamter= no chance. Low height plus huge diameter, hmmm.... Now I can't sleep!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 04, 2009, 02:06:21 AM
Hmm, greater diameter should give more centrifugal force, and then again also less, you should check wikipedia's article on centripetal force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal_force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal_force)
And height will just increase the total volume of water accelerated.

Well I can't say for certain all the other stuff about jet's, but what I find logical is that even if the rotation of the rotor is huge, and that the resulting pressure therefore pushes out water with great strength, and even if it seems slow to us, it should aid the rotors speed and accelerate it.

It is only from our perspective that the water seem relative slow, but not for the rotor.
So centrifugally pressurized water should be able to give a positive extra spin on the rotor, and because it doesn't drain the rotor directly by doing so, it ends up (like the milkovic pendulum) giving more work away than what was needed to supply it (from our part that is).

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 09, 2009, 09:47:31 PM
We should think more about energy savings not just on closing the loop.
We should see how we can practically use it now - it looks this aspect is already ready
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=951414596138700872#
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 10, 2009, 03:21:17 AM
Why do people make videos with music like that?  Techno is the most unmanly music haha.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on October 10, 2009, 03:45:49 AM
Mechanical energy is going to become extinct. do you want to hang around an area that is going to be wiped out?

No moving parts!

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 10, 2009, 03:11:01 PM
Mechanical energy is going to become extinct. do you want to hang around an area that is going to be wiped out?

No moving parts!

Jerry 8)

Jerry, I know what you're talking about, but that is far into the future.
Just think about this, how is an electric saw supposed to cut wood if the it cannot move?
Also what about hydraulic pressing? Point is as long as we need to move things physically we need motors that can do it, be it electrical or not.

Cars for example is one of those things that could eventually go over into solid state, when the technology is there. The only thing moving would then only be the car itself , while everything inside was controlled by some kind of field.


But there is also something else you should be aware of; there exists no real solid state system anywhere! What creates electricity and magnetism? Motion of nano-sized particles.
Spin is the thing :D   It makes every structure and reaction we know of stable, but it will never be solid state. ;)

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on October 10, 2009, 03:33:17 PM
Jerry, I know what you're talking about, but that is far into the future.
Just think about this, how is an electric saw supposed to cut wood if the it cannot move?
Also what about hydraulic pressing? Point is as long as we need to move things physically we need motors that can do it, be it electrical or not.

Cars for example is one of those things that could eventually go over into solid state, when the technology is there. The only thing moving would then only be the car itself , while everything inside was controlled by some kind of field.


But there is also something else you should be aware of; there exists no real solid state system anywhere! What creates electricity and magnetism? Motion of nano-sized particles.
Spin is the thing :D   It makes every structure and reaction we know of stable, but it will never be solid state. ;)

Julian

Hi Julian.

I was actually referring to making electricity via macro mechanics.

some mechanical schemes seem to be unavoidable like presses and stuff but macro mechanics isn't needed to produce electricity like that used in Hydroelectric dams and the lot.

Jerry :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 10, 2009, 03:51:51 PM
Ah okey. Well they can always be made more durable and stronger. When I think about it, a hydro electric dam would probably be a lot more powerful if it used tesla turbine instead of the normal turbine. Wear and tear should be practically eliminated, efficiency should be better and practically all of the kinetic energy stored in the water should be possible to be converted. But were you maybe talking about something different when you mentioned macro mechanics?

Julian
Title: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on October 11, 2009, 12:32:52 PM
This principle can be uses as a measure of improvement, without spending a lots of energy!!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 13, 2009, 08:06:25 PM
IMPORTANT ADDITION ON MILKOVIC'S WEB-SITE:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html

Energy Measuring

It is important to note that we are not supporting over unity claim for the oscillator where its pendulum was initially raised to some height and then left to swing until it stops.

Our idea is that after initial raising of a pendulum it is necessary to keep adding a little energy to a pendulum to keep it swinging. Because two stage oscillator is supposed to be used for long period of the time, energy spent for initial raising can be disregarded. The same logic is for Diesel engines where it is necessary for them to achieve working temperature before measuring its efficiency. Nobody would also include energy spent for magnetization of permanent magnets in an electric motor for calculation of efficiency ratio of his electric motor.

It is necessary to measure small energy continuously added to maintain pendulum swinging. Note also that output force on the lever side is variable and change from zero to a maximum defined by its mass. The reason for it is variable force of the pendulum which exert pulling the lever on opposite side. This makes mathematics complex and precise tools for measuring variable force are necessary for calculation of efficiency ratio of a two stage oscillator.

The well known fact is that pendulum with fixed pivot point can keep swinging for several hours. Two-stage oscillator has movable pivot point. It moves in rhythm of the lever which frequency is double higher than frequency of the pendulum. The movement of the pivot point, or better to say its acceleration, keeps spending energy of the pendulum which decelerates its swinging fast. Friction in pendulum pivot point is very small in comparison with losses due to movement and acceleration of the pivot point and can be disregarded. Oscillators with small and harmonic movement of the pivot point have better performances and that is the reason why special attention should be given to that problem.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 13, 2009, 11:09:26 PM
Would it then not be easier to hand the 2nd stage weight from a spring? I bet that with small input of energy, I can make that weight hit an anvil, and then raise "itself" back again, al the time. Well, until I need to stop for obvious reasons. I remove the 1st stage pendulum with it's low weight and relatively high air friction. I only git the big weight a light tap up. Spring shortens, can support weight, it accelerates down, and goes past the equilibrium point about as far as I lifted it. Unless there's an anvil in its path to bounce off. Then the spring doesn't need to do all the lifting work, gravity's bounce does.
The pendulum is more user friendly, but does it have other traits my story overlooks, is it better than "direct drive"?

Did they just state that there is no point in trying to look the 2-stage oscillator?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on October 14, 2009, 12:36:44 AM
HI everyone good day!  ;D

this thread says 12 times more output than input ok, but three times more output than in is enough to complete the circulation ok.  8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on October 14, 2009, 10:33:34 AM

I'm curious, why are there so few examples of attempted self swinging pendulums?

They require both so little energy input, and such simple power feedback mechanisms.


Just an impartial observation.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 14, 2009, 12:53:28 PM
I'm curious, why are there so few examples of attempted self swinging pendulums?
They require both so little energy input, and such simple power feedback mechanisms.

because they are all conservative setup
and self swinging pendulum can not existe
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on October 14, 2009, 03:18:06 PM

Yes, however self swinging children are a matter of historical record.


So, there you have it...


TS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spoondini on October 14, 2009, 03:45:06 PM
A battery powered self swinging pendulum is easy to make.

Very similar to food powered self swinging children. 

No overunity to be found.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 14, 2009, 04:30:20 PM
because they are all conservative setup
and self swinging pendulum can not existe

Tagor, if you don't want to at least try and understand this, can you at least stop repeating what you have already said over and over again. It reminds me more about spam than input....

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 14, 2009, 07:08:46 PM
Tagor, if you don't want to at least try and understand this, can you at least stop repeating what you have already said over and over again. It reminds me more about spam than input....

Julian

3 years ago I put a single pendulum et a dual pendulum running on a the same solar panel
there are running all the day ( not the night ) ...
I never notice 12 times more output !!!
but ....
some body can prove me wrong ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 14, 2009, 07:38:48 PM
First I need to know what you mean:
3 years ago I put a single pendulum et a dual pendulum running on a the same solar panel

Are you saying that you made a chaotic pendulum, and then powered it with impulses from a solar panel? Or was it something else?

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kmarinas86 on October 14, 2009, 08:13:51 PM
This is not overunity. Rather, it has a feature similar to regenerative braking. It recovers the energy lost as kinetic energy in the pendulum. The system is slow acting anyway, so it does not have much power. That is how the dissipation can take so long. The system has a high Q factor. I've seen grandfather clocks, and I know some of those can go a long time without batteries.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 14, 2009, 08:28:31 PM

Are you saying that you made a chaotic pendulum, and then powered it with impulses from a solar panel?

Julian
yes I do and  I put it on this forumsome months ago ...
a dual pendulum with impulses from solar panel ( very cheap to do it )
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 14, 2009, 09:10:43 PM
But that's the problem, a chaotic pendulum and the milkovic oscillator are not the same.

Both I and many other (buliders as well), have said that movement of the pivot is what drains the pendulum. A chaotic pendulum as no restriction what-so-ever on the second pendulum's pivots movement. The two pendulums will then mix together with their combined potential and kinetic energies and end up without have done anything useful.

The power of the 2-stage oscillator is that it can do plentiful of work, with a lot of force, without being drained by the same negative work. This is because distance is the only sign of the equation which really affects it, minus all the other inefficiencies.

There is no force which pushes against the pendulum for every time it makes work (for example by pumping water, which has been done). There is only the movement of the pivot, and that can affect it negatively because of their parametric relationship. It is still however only distance and not force which slows it, so total work out does not need to be the same as total work in.
A similar situation is electric motors.

A motor only needs current to create a magnetic force, but to overcome the impedance of the coils voltage is also necessary, and the bigger the coils, the larger the voltage is needed.
But, if you insert capacitors into that relationship you have an RV's. And what are they doing?
They are balancing the inductance and the capacitance against each other, and in that way lowering the total voltage needed for a given current, increasing the total amount of work a certain input watt can do. Ideally, with a fine tuned resonance you could have powered a large many horsepower motor with only a few volts, but with large currents. The difference in watts out and in would then be enormous. A certain amount of skill and tools are needed to do that however, and I am in no way boasting my ability to carry out such an experiment.

But if you have read what I wrote just now (and that's a big IF :D), then are you able to see the comparison between the resonant circuit in an RV and the pendulum in the Milkovic machine?
We only need to overcome the "inductive impedance" of the pendulum, by pushing it in its own natural resonance, and then it is only a matter of maintaining that kinetic energy, minus the small losses of a well built system.


Finally there are other ways of doing this which could work better, which could make it easier to a feedback system, but it is in no way impossible. It only requires a good system  ;)

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on October 15, 2009, 12:24:30 AM

Quote
Finally there are other ways of doing this which could work better, which could make it easier to a feedback system, but it is in no way impossible. It only requires a good system

Ditto what he said.

Mount a 1lb. weight to the rim of a bicycle wheel, itself, mounted on a stand.  Set the apparatus on an accurate package scale.  Start by releasing the weight at apogee and measure the difference in weight between the apparatus at rest and at the weight's moment of perigree.

Nope, nothing to see here.....

::)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 15, 2009, 05:21:11 AM
I don't know why people don't grasp what Milkovic is trying to do.  He said it plainly in the above post.  The point of his design is not to let it ring down.  The idea is to use the initial stored energy from raising the weight to continually do work for you, over and over.  Because of friction and the moving pivot point, the energy tries to drain, so you need to replenish this energy to keep the pendulum going. 

It is an energy amplifier when looking at the replenishing energy verses the output energy.  When you do this you realize that inputting x to replenish the pendulum outputs n*x (where n is some amplification factor greater than 1 based on the the initial energy lifted, efficiency of design, etc.)  This is what he is meaning by over unity.  If however, you take into consideration the energy required to lift the pendulum, the efficiency calculation at first is much more crappy, well below 50%.  But as you use it, the efficiency grows because you only input that energy once.  After a few times the amount of output per cycle exceeds the replenishing energy and it should raise to some value.  I'm just repeating what I've grasped from Milkovic.  I don't fully believe or disbelieve anything yet - this is just my take on what he's trying to say.

Really the concept is very interesting - despite whether you can ever close the loop.  I think the best way to attempt closing the loop would be to convert the output to electricity (via a generator with ratchet and perhaps a fly wheel) then store the energy in a capacitor and discharge it through a coil when the pendulum is in the downward swing (to boost the pendulum) like those pendulum toys do. 

Even if that isn't the most "efficient", it would be easy.  And if there really is 12 times more output than input then being really inefficient would still land you somewhere within 3-6 times more output (still proving the point).  A good electric machine will be about 80% efficient.  If attached directly to a ratchet with flywheel (which can be another 80%) the system is 64%.  Storing in the capacitor and discharging would have very little loss, probably near 90% or better (more than likely better).  So the total now is ~57%.  This means if there is 12 times more output, going this route would give you ~6 times more output - and prove the point that it can self run. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 15, 2009, 07:23:16 AM
Even if that isn't the most "efficient", it would be easy.  And if there really is 12 times more output than input then being really inefficient would still land you somewhere within 3-6 times more output (still proving the point).  A good electric machine will be about 80% efficient.  If attached directly to a ratchet with flywheel (which can be another 80%) the system is 64%.  Storing in the capacitor and discharging would have very little loss, probably near 90% or better (more than likely better).  So the total now is ~57%.  This means if there is 12 times more output, going this route would give you ~6 times more output - and prove the point that it can self run.

30 years after his claim ...
still , we are waiting this elementary data ! so simple to do
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 15, 2009, 02:05:50 PM
30 years after whose claim?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 15, 2009, 03:59:28 PM
30 years after whose claim?

http://www.free-energy.ws/veljko-milkovic.html

Quote
But Veljko Milkovic is also a researcher, an inventor, and a writer. His scientific work has always focussed on creating a better future. To date, he has worked on over 100 different inventions, and has received 23 Serbian Patents. Veljko has also received many domestic and international awards for his work over the the last 30 years.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 15, 2009, 05:47:59 PM
One problem of closing the loop electrically is that even though motors can be efficient, generators at large are very inefficient. But the ratched idea is sound, and whether it is used to do electrical work or mechanical work, its efficiency is somewhere close to 98%, it can of course be both better and worse depending on its use. 

Also, it might be easier to make it self-sustained by using a spring instead of a pendulum.
It only goes up and down, and it should work just the same.


But maybe tagor has a point. Even though it is a very good demonstration device, and that it can also do some useful work, there might be other design which we should focus on.


Still the research should be in many places, because I believe this concept of parametric resonance has a very wide use. And who knows, maybe it is one of the "laws" which controls our universe.
After all, and as I have said for a long time, thermodynamic conservation and entropy laws are not very accurate in predicting the way our universe turned out. There seems to be more existing then just the reactions that leads to entropy.....

JUlian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spoondini on October 15, 2009, 08:25:00 PM
If COP is 12, you can be pretty damned inefficient at converting to electricity to close the loop.  To be specific, you can waste up to 91.7% during conversion and still provide enough energy to continuously run the pendulum.

From what I've seen these are really neat!  However I do not believe these are COP 12.  I actually don't believe they are even COP 1, but it's just my oppinion.  I really hope someone proves me wrong, and if they do I'll proudly eat crow.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 15, 2009, 09:51:30 PM
If COP is 12, you can be pretty damned inefficient at converting to electricity to close the loop.  To be specific, you can waste up to 91.7% during conversion and still provide enough energy to continuously run the pendulum.

This claim about 12 times more energy is not scientifically confirmed yet. Milkovic got that result by measuring friction in a tube, actually it was a medical syringe made of plastic. It would start moving down after some pressure applied. After its initial movement it is very questionable how it would continue to move down. Milkovic used that method because no one was able to tell him how to do measuring.
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Measurement1.JPG

So, in reality results could be 2 times instead of 12 times. That still would be good concerning over unity claim, but not so good in using electric generator with low ratio.

Jovan
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spoondini on October 15, 2009, 10:23:17 PM
Last skeptical comment on these devices.

It doesn't seem like rocket science to accurately measure input in and out.

Pendulum=Magnet, North on bottom

At the bottom of the pendulum swing is an electromagnet functioning as a 'stator' and is pulsed north upwards everytime the pendulum passes repelling it upwards.

On the hammer side of the equation again you use a magnet lowering and rising inside a coil to generate electrical voltage+current.  If you balance the coil/hammer magnet properly enough electomotive friction should be generated to simulate mechanical load (actually they are the same).

If we use DC current to pulse the electromagnet, adding only the necessary energy to keep the pendulum swinging, and convert the output current to DC, we can easily measure energy in and energy out.

It would also be easy to close the loop and run perpetually.

I'm not going attempt this myself because I'm already fairly certain of the disapointing results, but I would love to see one of the Milkovic advocates prove me wrong.

If COP is even 2, we can still afford to loose half of the energy due to inefficient conversion.

The fact that Milkovic, or anyone else, has not yet performed such a simple test to prove to the world it works is indicative that it won't.  Hell, if it really worked, Milkovic (or somebody) would be running a generator in their backyard selling power to all their neighbors and back to the power grid.

Bottom line is it's not happening.

This really appears to be nothing more than a very efficient lever or pulley system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 15, 2009, 10:28:12 PM
Quote
After all, and as I have said for a long time, thermodynamic conservation and entropy laws are not very accurate in predicting the way our universe turned out. There seems to be more existing then just the reactions that leads to entropy.....

Very well said. 

But, electric generators have the same efficiency as electric motors (when operated at the optimum frequency). 

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 15, 2009, 10:28:32 PM
My thoughts are that these numbers were based on the Q of his initial system.
If the quality of an oscillator is very high then it can last for a long time without being drained.

It is my belief that there two types of damping effects in this system (as well as in all other oscillators, but one of them is normally always dampened).

The first type is the one that I would always call the negative one. Air resistance, bad bearings, other types of frictions working directly against the movement of the pendulum (or spring or anything else), is always negative for oscillators.

The other type of damping is the one which decides at what level you want to collect useful work in the 2-stage fashion.
Up till that point no energy leaves the system by any large part, but when the kinetic energy of the system reaches a certain level where it moves its support, you will begin to lower its quality and the ratio of energy in/out will lower the more you increase the input.

It is around this area that you can collect work. Below this range nothing will leave the system, and too far above more of it will be lost because of the low Q.
The higher the Q of such a system is, the larger the ratio of energy in versus energy out can be.

This is why working with really large forces and weights, combined with very little pivot movement (as Rhead did) will give a certain amount of work, which has a very high Q and thus almost no losses of energy.


So the COP 12 number is just a certain case. Depending on the construction I believe it can both be well below 12 (even far under 1), but also far above 12. Again, this not a purely simple machine to make, and it relies on the skills of its constructor to have the highest gain possible.
It will be interesting to see how Rhead's development goes  :)

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 15, 2009, 10:33:41 PM
Very well said. 

But, electric generators have the same efficiency as electric motors (when operated at the optimum frequency).

Hmm, I have heard otherwise. Or in that case it means that both types are really poor in efficiency.
Here's a good idea. If you want to generate electricity from the Milkovic pendulum, use a ratched design to turn an Ecklin generator. Believe it or not, but they are based on some of the same principles. Flux modulation is parametric oscillation.  ;)

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spoondini on October 15, 2009, 11:09:41 PM
Could you please explain what an Ecklin Generator is?  Did some quick google searches and all I'm getting is that this is yet another OU device in itself which nobody has ever conclusively tested.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 15, 2009, 11:25:10 PM
Could you please explain what an Ecklin Generator is?  Did some quick google searches and all I'm getting is that this is yet another OU device in itself which nobody has ever conclusively tested.

That's far from the truth, but it does already have a tread here I believe.
Anyway, it is a type of generator that is not slowed down by lenz's law. It uses ferromagnetic "slugs" to alter the field path. It does have some things in common with the MEG, expect that it is driven mechanically. I have actually tried the concept my self on the SSG motor I got in the garage.
It will generate a lot of mechanical motion on a plate, but the motor itself will not loose speed or draw any more current.

But anyway, that's just for those who actually want to build something, and want it to work even better. Combining several of these technologies can have a lot of merit. Just replace the old inefficient conversion stages with new technologies that we know are better.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 15, 2009, 11:47:20 PM
I didn't know what it was either but I looked it up.  It is a generator that uses a shield to cut the magnetic lines of flux so that the permanent magnet and coil can remain stationary.  The claim is that lenz's law is negated and it operates in over unity. 

However, I've investigated these type generators and even built them (and redesigned them some as well).  Lenz law is not negated, it is still present but in a different way.  The shielding material used to cut the flux will exhibit the opposite polarity of the magnet.  As the shield approaches, the coils see a decreasing field and generates an opposite polarity to the magnet.  This polarity is the SAME polarity as the shield, so it repels the shield producing a drag which is more or less countered by the pull of the magnet (so basically neutralized if not a little over powered by the magnet).  This drag becomes intensified as the shield moves out of the field because the coil then sees an increasing flux and generates the same polarity as the magnet, which since the shield has the opposite pole, will get twice the pull force as the shield tries to leave.  So whatever gain you get from the shield approach is very quickly drained by the exit.  Sorry if that is hard to follow but in a nut shell that is why shielding does not work and I abandoned it a long time ago. 

Generator efficiency is usually a product of the speed (most motors have higher efficiency at some optimum speed as well).  But generally an electric generator (atleast the conventional kind), well built, can be 80-90% efficient.  That is 80 to 90% of the mechanical energy applied is converted to electricity.  Generators using Halbach arrays (like the one invented by Dr. Halbach) is claimed at achieving 99% efficiency which is an amazing claim (and probably a little exaggerated).  Needless to say you can't buy them - they are very costly to make since you need specially made magnets that can be stacked to form a Halbach ring.  In fact, the cost of a generator is usually what limits its efficiency.  They could make 99% efficient generators easy but they would cost so much, and the savings in energy so small, they usually don't strive for such high efficiencies. 

Unfortunately, economics is the driving force as to how efficient our devices are made.  Since oil is becoming harder to find, a few percentage increase in efficiency over the lifetime of a device can make a big savings difference.  Hence the recent crazy for higher efficiency.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 16, 2009, 12:29:43 AM
Hmm, I feel I must reply to some of your statements.

First of all, I didn't say that Lenz's law was negated, I said that it didn't slow the rotor down.
Now, your example with the generator coil is not really accurate. If it was the north pole from the permanent magnet, which the iron slug was inducing into the coil, the coil would (if it generated current) induce the same magnetic field against the slug. This means two norths. The things is, two norths will not slow down the slug, they will instead attract it into the middle. 

You can test this by setting up two magnets with both norths facing each other, and then approach them with a metal plate in between. The plate will be pulled inside, and the magnets (if were restricted by springs), would go closer together.

The same thing will happen when the slug leaves, and this means that the slug will be decelerated by the same amount which it is accelerated. Whether you are making a lot of current or not, the opposing (but attractive) magnetic field on the way out will be just as strong as one the way in.

And as I said, the result will be a generator without lenz's law slowing it down.
I do not know what kind of tests you have done, but I know about someone who have maid a very successful unit (after having tried 3 different design I might add).


What I hope you could understand which is even simpler is a pure mechanical design.
If you have those two magnets with the north facing each other, a rotor with iron plates attached going through the field, would cause the magnets to contract and then expand outward again.
This is because the two opposing fields are polarizing the plate, and thus attract themself to it.
This does also cause the plate to be pulled in. If we then want to remove the plate, we need the same level of energy as what we got from inserting it, but the movement from both magnets are completely for free and could power lots of machinery, and its seems that some are already doing that.

Just wanted to mention this because it is a lot easier to understand it when it is two magnets, instead of one magnet and one coil. But the coil will always generate the same field when current is flowing.

If you don't believe me, I really advice you to try the experiment I mentioned. Try it with two neodymiums, which can really give you a lot of power, and then compare it with energy used to slide the metal through  ;)

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TechStuf on October 16, 2009, 12:36:57 AM
Anybody can prove "free" energy.  Kids in elementary school can do it.


Take a bike wheel, mount 12 NdFeB magnets equidistant on one side of rim, mount the wheel horizontally.  Position a plastic egg or other non ferrous container wrapped with magnet wire which ends are connected to an LED, above the rim.   (Place a small NEO magnet inside. )  Place the container an inch or two above the rim, you can easily work out the optimum distance as you go.  Use a cordless electric drill to spin up the bike wheel to a repeatedly consistent speed, and measure spin duration by itself.  Now, with the coil/light combo situated at optimum distance, measure spin duration.  Notice how it lasts just as long....sometimes LONGER.  Where is the energy to power the LED coming from?

The answer lies in the fact that torque/momentum can be generated by spinning a magnet within it's own radius, perhaps slightly larger, without causing a net drag on the system.  The torque generated by two magnets passing while in the correct orientation, can be made to surpass the energy required to initiate and sustain the action.


Myriad ways exist, to force couple to the 'wheelwork of nature'.



TS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 16, 2009, 02:27:20 AM
Quote
Now, your example with the generator coil is not really accurate. If it was the north pole from the permanent magnet, which the iron slug was inducing into the coil, the coil would (if it generated current) induce the same magnetic field against the slug. This means two norths. The things is, two norths will not slow down the slug, they will instead attract it into the middle.

Assuming the coil is loaded so current can flow, as the slug approaches between the coil and the north magnet, the slug will magnetically orient to a south pole (hence it is attracted to the magnet).  The coil will see a decreasing north pole flux because the magnet's flux is rerouting into the slug.  The coil responds to a decreasing north pole by producing a south pole.  The slug is also a south pole because it was first oriented this way to make the change that the coil sees.  Thus the coil reacts on the slug to slow it down.  Only, this force gets retarded because the magnet is usually stronger than the magnetic field of the coil.  At the best the attractive nature of the slug to the magnet is completely neutralized by the coil.  As the slug leaves, less flux will pass through the slug and more will pass through the coil.  The coil thus sees an increasing north pole.  Its response is to develop a north pole of its own.  The combine north pole of the magnet and the coil act on the slug (still being a south pole) and restrict it from leaving, slowing it down.  I have documented this effect very well. 

Quote
You can test this by setting up two magnets with both norths facing each other, and then approach them with a metal plate in between. The plate will be pulled inside, and the magnets (if were restricted by springs), would go closer together.

This is not the same experiment as described above because the coil (which has been replaced by one of the magnets as a test) reverses in polarity as the slug leaves.  To more accurately display how the coil will function, the two magnets must start in attractive mode (north to south) as the slug approaches, then be placed in a repulsion mode (north to north) as the slug leaves.  There will be virtually no force pulling the slug in while the magnets are in attraction mode but there will be twice the force to pull it out when they are in repulsion mode. 

Now, the experiment you suggested where two magnets are in opposition is an interesting experiment which I think is worth merit onto its own.  Two magnets suspended by springs with a slug moving between them.  They will move closer because they become attracted to the slug but the slug saturates and their own repulsion force takes hold so they equally move some distance inward.  In this situation, the same force to move into the field is equal to the force required to move out of the field just like you said - AS LONG AS the magnets are free to move in and out.  IF the magnets are not allowed to move, you'll notice it takes less force to move the slug when the magnets are farther apart than when they are closer to the slug.  So again loading the magnets to produce electricity will still cause a drag since the load will restrict the magnets from coming together right away and delay their separation.  BUT, there might be more output than what it takes to move the slug so it might be worth looking into - on another thread of course.

Sorry I don't want to talk about this anymore on this thread since its not directly related to the mechanical oscillator.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 18, 2009, 06:51:28 PM
something new from YouTube:

Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator Simulation
A simulation of a two-Stage mechanical oscillator using a motorized wheel instead of a pendulum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2m1LbXuz6E
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 18, 2009, 06:55:58 PM
more...

Who asked for water pumping?! :)

two stage oscillator "casero"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_R-INBgZuo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: eclectic4321 on October 18, 2009, 09:57:44 PM
Hi All,

You may be interested in the two stage oscillator that I built from Lego blocks.  Please see the Youtube videos at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPNMzRGg_ow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPNMzRGg_ow)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InUU08XD2YY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InUU08XD2YY)
(or search for “Lego Two Stage Oscillator”)

All the Lego parts are from a Lego Mindstorms kit.  Non-Lego parts are the AA battery, the bronze bushing in the pendulum (both act as weights), and the rubber bands.  (There is nothing special about the battery and bushing.  Both were on my desk at the time, and weigh the proper amount.)

Why Legos?  Because they allow an inexpensive, quick, and easy to build model.  The model can also be rapidly changed to try different ideas.  Despite the “toy” aspect, the model here demonstrates the proper tuned operation that Mr. Milkovic describes.  It can also be detuned to operate with random chaotic motion, as well as untuned heavy lifting operation.  (You can see models operating in all these modes in other Youtube videos.)

If you choose to build your own model (which I encourage you to do), please read Mr. Lindemann’s Model Builder’s Guide article:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Model_Building_Guidelines_by_Dr_Peter_Lindemann.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Model_Building_Guidelines_by_Dr_Peter_Lindemann.pdf)

In short:
•   Add weight to balance the horizontal beam.  (This is my AA battery).
•   Tighten or loosen the rubber band to get the beam to oscillate at the same frequency as what the pendulum swing.  (This takes some patience, but is not difficult.)

Although it is unlikely to go overunity (low forces, high friction), this model is an excellent teaching tool.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Charlie_V on October 19, 2009, 02:02:05 AM
Hi Merg, the motorized wheel idea is pretty cool.  But the simulation would be better if they spun the wheel at twice the frequency of the beam.  Otherwise you get sparatic oscillations like what you see in the video.  The pendulum makes it easy for the system to act parametrically, but a motor wheel would have to match frequencies. 

I like the lego oscillator.  Neat idea letting the battery power it  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on October 19, 2009, 05:05:43 PM
The Milkovich- with-rotating-wheel was put on youtube at my request, by a friend from the Bessler Wheel website. I am unable to do simulations myself. Having seen the video, I suggest the following mods. The restraining stops need to limit the up and down movement of the wheel to about 5% of the wheels radius. Wheel needs to run faster, to increase centrifugal force. Lever needs to be about 3 times as long at the end carring the balance weight. Use a bike wheel with a freewheel [ratchet] sprocket. As the wheel jumps up and down, a static chain device ads feedback to the wheel. More detail on this if anyone wants to build. Can anyone tell me if it is possible to determine input/output ratio of this device from s simulation please ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Xaverius on October 19, 2009, 09:38:17 PM
@ Mr. Heade

Hi Raymond, how's it going with your escapement/closed loop apparatus?  Hope things are going well for you, take care.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bulbz on October 25, 2009, 05:27:00 PM
Could it be possible to use Milkovic's dual oscillation system as the basis of a super efficient human powered vehicle ?

I noticed in on of the videos something about the base needing to be firmly anchored to a surface, well maybe another pendulum could be added to the frame to counter balance the whole thing bouncing and losing it's energy as a result, adding a counter balance could make the device more mobile !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on October 25, 2009, 05:34:59 PM
Mr. Head has allready achieved free energy based on gravity! All the rest is in development!
It is obviously!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Xaverius on October 25, 2009, 09:43:27 PM
Mr. Head has allready achieved free energy based on gravity! All the rest is in development!
It is obviously!
Raymond informed me today that he is putting on the finishing touches to his escapement/closed loop device and will test it sometime today, hopefully with a video by tomorrow.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 25, 2009, 10:49:51 PM
That is great news!
He got all the time he needs on the finishing for my part :D

But whatever the results will be, let us build upon it and learn from it  :)

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on October 26, 2009, 04:59:21 PM
Hello, I've published two clips about an improved system. Work in progress..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZCI2A1olIQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDoK7sze2Lo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Xaverius on October 27, 2009, 06:28:50 AM
Hello, I've published two clips about an improved system. Work in progress..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZCI2A1olIQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDoK7sze2Lo
Fascinating design, any more information on this?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on October 27, 2009, 10:20:54 PM
Fascinating design, any more information on this?

Hi! I'm happy to give information. It's really simple, the bob of the pendulum is long 1 m, the wheigt is 5 kg, and in the lever we have the left arm lenght 0,25 m from the fulcrum, and the right arm long 0,40 m. The right arm is stopped with two shock absorber, that you can regulate, and then is connected to a byke's wheel. I can post any photos if it interests: the system could be improved more and more, any suggests are welcome  :)
Sorry for the bad English speaking, bye
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 29, 2009, 04:03:41 PM
...while we are waiting for Raymond Head's new oscillator development here is something related to it - a quote from the latest Milkovic newsletter:

"A victory for clean energy is achieved - the free mechanical energy from Texas (USA) is confirmed in the latest analysis!
After two years of experiments, consultations and discussions it becomes clear that accomplished mechanical energy surplus cannot be denied anymore!

Jovan Marjanovic - Raymond Head’s Over Unity Proof for the Veljko Milkovic’s Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Raymond_Head_Over_Unity_Proof.pdf
 
The weight would be raised 2+ inches (5 – 6 cm) when the pendulum was moving towards the left side and 2- inches when it was moving back. So the weight of 80 pounds was raised a total of 4 inches (10cm) for each hand input. The path of the hand was also around 10cm (before losing contact with pendulum).
So, because paths passed by the weight and path passed by the fingers were almost the same and because the weight was 80 pounds and force of the fingers was less than 20 pounds, it should be obvious that output energy was 4 times bigger than input energy."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 29, 2009, 04:21:13 PM
Yes Merg, I also got an update from the team.
While reading it all, one sentence got me thinking for a while:

"Note that no one has counted the fact that weight on the left side of the
lever was going up and down and that it could do work both ways. Only raising
up and increasing potential energy of the weight was counted in this case.
"

This is very important to understand, you will not gain anything by only loading the weight on the way down, and save for height on the way up. You loose more that way because of distance.

I am on my way trying to kill off the process which drains the oscillations, and I think it is possible.
Between the pendulum (or another harmonic oscillator) and the load, there is a free exchange of energy, but not work, and this is where my interest is. I will report back later if I find something  :)

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 29, 2009, 05:08:18 PM
So, because paths passed by the weight and path passed by the fingers were almost the same and because the weight was 80 pounds and force of the fingers was less than 20 pounds, it should be obvious that output energy was 4 times bigger than input energy."

it is not science !
it is ridiculous !

the less you can do is , measuring the works done by the finger
when a real work is done ... for example lifting 80 pounds not up and down
but lifting 80 pounds UP : 1 meter ?
can you think to do this real work ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on October 29, 2009, 05:41:42 PM
@ tagor

I do not post here often but I do keep up with the thread.

To make science out of it, I think the obvious approach would be more in line with the following.

Measure actual input force (torque) in foot pounds from pendulum pivot to point of hand position X time applied.  Measure the raising of the 80 pound weight X distance X time. From this a mathematician can derive horsepower in and horse power out!

Now whereas the weight has been allowed to fall back deduct what you just allegedly gained.

The fact that a boy can lift 80 pounds by applying 20 pounds
without measuring the other factors is not an objective conclusion, therefore I agree, it is not science.

Ralph Lortie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rlortie on October 29, 2009, 06:18:52 PM
An 'after thought'
Lets say our 80 pound weight is a square 10 X10" resting on a bellow of the same dimension compressed 2", calculate the psi. The bellows are spring loaded to allow raising as the weight is lifted, They are pneumatically connected to a pulse or slave cylinder. Upon opening (up stroke of main weight) the spring action not only opens the master bellows but pulls the slave cylinder back to its start position. 

How many psi using the above factors would be created in a slave (pulse) cylinder of say 1=1/2" in diameter with a 10 cm or 4" stroke?

The spring loaded bellows could be attached to the bottom of the 80 lbs.weight, and the spring removed allowing even less resistance to fall and compression.

Ralph Lortie   
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 30, 2009, 05:06:59 PM
tagor be honest here, when you lift an 80 pound weight up and then let it fall down again, you have done real work! I cannot understand how it could be otherwise. If he had collected the energy from the weight's height, by oscillating it back into the pendulum somehow and making it land slowly, yes then it would not have been real work, but as you can both see and hear, he let if fall straight down....

Are you arguing against this scenario or is there something else behind you accusations?

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 30, 2009, 06:43:11 PM
tagor be honest here, when you lift an 80 pound weight up and then let it fall down again,

you are totally wrong
it is not real work => it is equilibrium , there is no work , COP=0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 30, 2009, 11:39:59 PM
you are totally wrong
it is not real work => it is equilibrium , there is no work , COP=0

Okey tagor (or whatever your name is), I don't want to be rude here, but if you don't get this then you should return to school (or use the free courses on mechanics which MIT hosts on youtube).

There is actually a reason to why it is heavy to lift a big weight. You are doing real work.
But for a human it is of course not so easy to return that energy from the height.
But for this machine that could have been possible, haven't it been for the fact that most of the kinetic energy inside the weight is used up when it strikes the ground at full speed.

Had Raymond placed a spring underneath the weight, or anything else which could store and conserve that energy input then yes, the figures from Jovan Marjanovic would really be false, but since that is not the case at all your assumption falls short of explaining the energy going in versus the energy going out.

Please, don't consider this a personal challenge of arguments, but consider the facts as they are and be true to yourself about them.

Julian  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 30, 2009, 11:50:50 PM
Anyway this is olds news for a lot of people.

When Raymond finally shows his video of a self-sustained oscillator, would you agree to it then?
Or would you just claim that he is cheating us all just to get popular or scam us for money?
That, at least, seems to be standard for a large amount of people, and it is not about evidence (it never were), it was about their state of mind, and how much they allow their view of the world to see.

Also after raymond gives us a peek at his machine we can move on to the next stage of this machine, which will eliminate the small parametric losses completely.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bulbz on October 31, 2009, 01:52:11 AM
Anyway this is olds news for a lot of people.

When Raymond finally shows his video of a self-sustained oscillator, would you agree to it then?
Or would you just claim that he is cheating us all just to get popular or scam us for money?
That, at least, seems to be standard for a large amount of people, and it is not about evidence (it never were), it was about their state of mind, and how much they allow their view of the world to see.

Also after raymond gives us a peek at his machine we can move on to the next stage of this machine, which will eliminate the small parametric losses completely.

Julian

Hey Julian. Who exactly is Raymond, is he a member on this board ?. More to the point, have you got a link to any pages that show Raymond's work ?. I'm very interested in seeing it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on October 31, 2009, 03:11:03 AM
Hey Julian. Who exactly is Raymond, is he a member on this board ?. More to the point, have you got a link to any pages that show Raymond's work ?. I'm very interested in seeing it.

He goes by the name Rhead100 on this forum, and he has built the largest 2-stage mechanical oscillator as far as I know of. At this time he has been working on the finishing of a large grandfather clock mechanism which will send back energy and most important, keep the timing right.

Here's a link to his youtube videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/RHEAD100 (http://www.youtube.com/user/RHEAD100)

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 31, 2009, 03:08:17 PM
tagor be honest here, when you lift an 80 pound weight up and then let it fall down again, you have done real work! I cannot understand how it could be otherwise. If he had collected the energy from the weight's height, by oscillating it back into the pendulum somehow and making it land slowly, yes then it would not have been real work, but as you can both see and hear, he let if fall straight down....

Are you arguing against this scenario or is there something else behind you accusations?

Julian
My current understanding:

If you break it up, 1 the lift and 2 the drop...
Does the lift require the subsequent drop? I think yes. Preventing it to drop will kill the oscillations in similar fashion to taking out energy from the lift.
If it's true 100% work being done on the lift, it should be possible to place the lightweight pendulum and 2nd stage "crane" next to a conveyor, and do the lift for seperate weights, setting them all on a higher shelf so to say.
The 2SO can do it for sure, but not after each pendulum swing, or hand-tap. It needs to be "charged" first. Energy being stored mostly in the vertical oscillation, I suppose.
And after the energy is all taken by putting a weight on a shelf, it's not all done yet. The mass of the next weight needs to be transferred to the 2nd stage before it can be charged back up. Perhaps trivial, but the way I see it, the while pendulum + fulcrum need to be lifted for that.

Raymond will hopefully be able to take off enough weight to be useful, yet not too much to unload the cross bar or upset the pendulum swing. That'd be awesome, but I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bulbz on October 31, 2009, 03:34:37 PM
He goes by the name Rhead100 on this forum, and he has built the largest 2-stage mechanical oscillator as far as I know of. At this time he has been working on the finishing of a large grandfather clock mechanism which will send back energy and most important, keep the timing right.

Here's a link to his youtube videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/RHEAD100 (http://www.youtube.com/user/RHEAD100)

Julian

Cheers Bud  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 05, 2009, 09:11:53 PM

Measure actual input force (torque) in foot pounds from pendulum pivot to point of hand position X time applied.  Measure the raising of the 80 pound weight X distance X time. From this a mathematician can derive horsepower in and horse power out!

Now whereas the weight has been allowed to fall back deduct what you just allegedly gained.

The fact that a boy can lift 80 pounds by applying 20 pounds
without measuring the other factors is not an objective conclusion, therefore I agree, it is not science.

Ralph Lortie

The thing is NOT to measure total force from pendulum pivot to point of hand position, but to measure ONLY energy added by the hand.

Because energy is FORCE x DISTANCE (in the same direction as acting force), it is not necessary to measure the time, unless you are interesting in power. This is true because the frequency of the lever is exactly two times the frequency of the pendulum and for one hand input there are two raisings of the weight and both were counted.

I DO agree that "the fact that a boy can lift 80 pounds by applying 20 pounds without measuring the other factors is not an objective conclusion",
and most important other factors are the DISTANCES the hand and the weight moved without any other influences, and they were counted.

I do not understand the point of this statement:
"Now whereas the weight has been allowed to fall back deduct what you just allegedly gained."

What is the problem in allowing the weight to fall back ?

Jovan
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 05, 2009, 09:29:33 PM
Quote

What is the problem in allowing the weight to fall back ?

Jovan
Hi Jovan,
The way I humble see it, you have not cashed in a gain, until you've cashed it. Much like my trade bank's balance as I see it now (after trade closed). It looks OK, but I failed to cash in, so it's just waiting for the next cycle (day) to hope for greatness.

If you place a weight on a high shelf, rather than recycling it vertically on a complicated wheel of sorts, what work has really been done?
Show me X amount of work, and I'll show you -X amount of work.
If consecutive heavier-than-pendulum weights would each be picked up at height zero and deposited at height 1, work is being done. And at a cheap rate, too! The pendulum after all, will remain most of its swing, and mere tapping will get it into full capacity? Capacitance, that is what we're seeing... Max being the sum of pendulum and 2nd stage weights at full harmonious oscillation.

Hope this was sufficiently to the point for you.

J
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on November 05, 2009, 09:45:43 PM
But are we forgetting that work is done each and every time the weight (in Ray's example) strikes the ground, generating heat, vibrations (both mechanical and acoustic)  ?
Yes, it is not useful work (yet), but it is real work, and it is in addition to any negative work which is added back to the pendulum cycle. Right Cloxxki?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on November 05, 2009, 09:50:52 PM
Sorry everyone for double post, just wanted to make on point clear.
I know for a fact that if Ray had placed a powerful enough spring under the weight, allowing it to be "charged" and "discharged" every time, it will reduce the small losses almost completely.
So that would have been a completely different scenario than what is happening here.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: el-tigre on November 06, 2009, 09:38:14 PM
How about this for an embodiment.

Fix 2 socket set ratchets to the power arm. One raises a bucket lift on the upstroke and the other raises it on the downstroke.

Fill the bucket lift with steel balls and when they dump off the top, let them roll down a track to a point where one can be picked up by the pendulum at the top of its swing.  At the bottom of the swing the ball falls off the pendulum and is returned on a track to the bucket lift conveyor.

The pundulum governs when it picks up a ball and hence no timing issues. 

Let this contraption run for a while and count the balls waiting on the pendulum staging track. Lots of friction, but it solves the "no work being done on the downstroke" complaint.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 13, 2009, 06:55:10 PM
I'm sure we have been waiting for something like this. It looks smart and sophisticated :)

A quote from the latest Milkovic's E-mail Newsletter:

Pendulum Electric Brain - Research Progress Report

Dear friends,
 
during the past year, Laboratory of Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillations Research (a subsidiary of Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center) has been successfully developing "The Electric Brain" for the pendulum oscillations - a multi-sensor system for collecting all necessary information from the pendulum swing/motion with the movable pendulum's pivot point in order to deeply study and research the pendulum-lever system.
 
The development is in the final stage and the finalization is expected in the coming months.
 
There are few snapshots of the current development status of this device:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Pendulum_Electric_Brain1.jpg
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Pendulum_Electric_Brain2.jpg
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Pendulum_Electric_Brain3.jpg
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Pendulum_Electric_Brain4.jpg
 
Best regards.
 
PR & Web team
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center

Bulevar cara Lazara 56
21000 Novi Sad
Serbia
e-mail: milkovic@neobee.net
web: www.veljkomilkovic.com
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 14, 2009, 06:54:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcHDWQrnZVk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrLvJPKWZSY

...by babarlizia.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on November 14, 2009, 07:28:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcHDWQrnZVk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrLvJPKWZSY

...by babarlizia.

is it self running ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on November 14, 2009, 07:41:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcHDWQrnZVk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrLvJPKWZSY

...by babarlizia.

I can not see the device

but in this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDoK7sze2Lo&feature=channel

he is doing real work ...
but not for a long time ...
just release the start energy !
where is the 12 times more output ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on November 14, 2009, 10:55:11 PM
I can not see the device

but in this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDoK7sze2Lo&feature=channel

he is doing real work ...
but not for a long time ...
just release the start energy !
where is the 12 times more output ?


Hey! this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcHDWQrnZVk  -  is a new model that I'm improving. I don't know where you read about 12 tmo, in the clip: the explanation on the right just say "finally it shines a light...". If there were significants progress about energy production I would posted that here.
Therefore, I think that you can find a good demonstration about OU in the pdf made by Ron Pugh. And in this videos too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-GpqHJoayc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ZJWa9PJVU


 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on November 15, 2009, 07:44:09 AM
Therefore, I think that you can find a good demonstration about OU in the pdf made by Ron Pugh. And in this videos too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-GpqHJoayc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ZJWa9PJVU

sorry I can not see OU in those videos
the energy comes from his hand
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on November 15, 2009, 10:01:16 AM
sorry I can not see OU in those videos
the energy comes from his hand

@tagor
Please read the explanation of the first video clip. We lift up ONE time the pendulum until 90 degrees ( the energy input is (m*g*h) 11 joule), then we leave it to make his work. In the second video clip you have the measure of the energy output in the opposite arm of the lever: you can read it on the right and you can see in the video.
I can't be sure that this thing works, yes, maybe all this is wrong. But, well, this experiment was made with a university book of phisics in the right hand, open on similar experiments. I've just applied the same math.
Thank you, bye 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on November 15, 2009, 10:24:18 AM
@tagor
Please read the explanation of the first video clip. We lift up ONE time the pendulum until 90 degrees ( the energy input is (m*g*h) 11 joule), then we leave it to make his work. In the second video clip you have the measure of the energy output in the opposite arm of the lever: you can read it on the right and you can see in the video.
I can't be sure that this thing works, yes, maybe all this is wrong. But, well, this experiment was made with a university book of phisics in the right hand, open on similar experiments. I've just applied the same math.
Thank you, bye

sorry
bad math
wrong science


I have experienced on this device for 3 years
it is not so simple ...
you have to study more
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on November 21, 2009, 05:31:02 PM
I can not see the device

but in this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDoK7sze2Lo&feature=channel

he is doing real work ...
but not for a long time ...
just release the start energy !
where is the 12 times more output ?


It need more work to improve!
It is not proven 12 times more energy, it is only Milkovic itself came to unreliable results of measurements, which are not exactly confirmed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on November 21, 2009, 05:42:51 PM
@tagor
Please read the explanation of the first video clip. We lift up ONE time the pendulum until 90 degrees ( the energy input is (m*g*h) 11 joule), then we leave it to make his work. In the second video clip you have the measure of the energy output in the opposite arm of the lever: you can read it on the right and you can see in the video.
I can't be sure that this thing works, yes, maybe all this is wrong. But, well, this experiment was made with a university book of phisics in the right hand, open on similar experiments. I've just applied the same math.
Thank you, bye

I think Andrea is on the right track!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 22, 2009, 06:54:38 PM
Here is something brand new from Milkovic's Newsletter:

Dear friends,
 
Jovan Marjanovic, electrical engineer and chief of Laboratory Analytical Team of Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillations Research, has continuing his scientific and research work in the field of ultra effective systems and new energy technologies and now he represented his analysis of over unity electro machines and their basic principles in a new study.
 
Jovan Marjanovic - Basic Principles of Construction For Over Unity Electro Motors and Generators
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Basic_Principles_of_Overunity_Electro_Machines.pdf (PDF 893KB)

(If your internet browser cannot open or recognize above PDF file, right click on the link and choose "Save Link As...", "Save Target As..." or "Save Linked Content As..." option to download a file to your hard disc)

"The goal of this work is to point out some important facts in construction of over-unity electro motors and generators, where output energy of the machine is greater than the mechanical energy invested on the input side of the machine. If some of the output energy of the generator is directed to the input side of the machine then perpetual motion can be achieved or perpetuum mobile."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on November 22, 2009, 07:18:13 PM
Just skimming through the document, its great to see that he shares many of my fascinations for electricity as well  :)

Again, if I start the construction of a bigger model to create usable power, then I will probably not use the old and limited methods such as what the standard generator gives.
As mentioned earlier in this tread, and although it never got completely agreed on, the Ecklin generator is one such device which can almost completely ignore the effects of Lenz law.
Another way is creating high voltage, by using high rpm and large coils composed of thin wire.
Since many of you probably know Faraday's law and Lenz's law, you know that the drag on a generator is proportional to the 'current' generated, not the watts.

Higher voltage with little amps will create much less drag on a generator than low voltage and many amps for the same wattage.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 30, 2009, 05:09:11 PM
Finally, Raymond Head posted his new videos with an "escapement" idea!
I see know what he was talking about...

Escapement for milkovic two stage oscillator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjCXpq_QSA

Testing escapements failed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCLoCZbw9ic

Why escapements failed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQLBVAaA8L8

RHEAD100, I hope you will give us more details here?!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Russell Lee on December 15, 2009, 06:52:46 PM
I agree,
  If it was producing 12 TIMES the energy, a huge amount of energy could be waisted in transfering the power produced to power the initial pendulum swing and still have it work.  It wuld be tough with 2 times the power, but not 12.  Hope all goes well with this, keep trying. -Russ

It need more work to improve!
It is not proven 12 times more energy, it is only Milkovic itself came to unreliable results of measurements, which are not exactly confirmed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on December 15, 2009, 07:38:18 PM
We can hope that Milkovic used the proper measurement methods to obtain the results which he has given us, however, his results are not comparable with any of ours except if we replicate his construction close to a 100%. If they are not we end up with a completely different system, which can give both better or worse results. As is my belief, the real efficiency and COP of this system is entirely dependent on its Q factor.

The larger the amplitudes gets, no matter if it is a pendulum, a string, spring or even an LC tank, the energy output is entirely dependent on how high its amplitude can be increased through resonance before it is drained by the load.

Try to imagine other possible setups than just the classic pendulum. Some are better and some are worse. And some are really f****ng crazy insanely better then the pendulum...

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on December 25, 2009, 07:33:56 PM
On College of Enginering, Amravati is written Minor Project :  To decrease human effort in pumping of wather from hand pump by using a pendulum. The author based the work on HAND WATER PUMP WITH A Pendulum by Mr. Veljko Milkovic[. Pump by Mr. Milkovic is known throughout the world. Pump is studied at university, but has and good everyday use. And in India, this will be applied pump.
Work of this student is an attachment hence it can be attached to readily installed classic hand pump with very less modigications thus making it much more useful. This idea provides alleviation of work, becouse it is enough to move the pendulum occasionally instead of large swings.



http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/rucnaPumpaEng.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Ken the Great on December 25, 2009, 11:53:04 PM
I see nothing special at all about this device.  Take a perfectly balanced wheel and give it a hard push to get it spinning. Just like he did with the pendulum, then give the wheel a small push every second or so, to keep it going, just like he did with the flashlight against the side of the pendulum.

Nothing special at all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 04, 2010, 06:02:52 AM
Pendulum - perpetual motion machine?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZjNbjhxgt4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsHOWv1Vevs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on January 16, 2010, 04:59:04 PM
Good video, but I have a small suggestion: Black weight should be massive, because then it would  be much useful. But, certainly, it would  be better if this invention we connect with the invention of Mr. Veljko Milkovic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nightlife on January 16, 2010, 06:18:55 PM
 Put these two together.

http://www.A.com/watch?v=Av5rFrdo69E&feature=related

http://www.A.com/user/Mopozco#p/u/80/yCLFC7AAfPM

 Then there is this one.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Mopozco#p/u/78/oIx-m6F2Jrw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on January 17, 2010, 02:31:26 PM
The search for a lost invention - the principle of the pendulum - crane

However, a number of "mechanisms" of the past is more efficient and some of them are to this day remained a mystery for scientists. Is impossible that a few thousand years,  someone has built massive buildings without modern tehnics.
Do you know the true side of humanity, the right side of history??? Perhaps the laws of physics were different than those today, may not be in bondage to the current dogma of science. The solution still exists on the site www.veljkomilkovic.com. Ultra-efficient machines, two-stage mechanical oscillator. Perhaps a similar principle was known before, eg. in building the pyramids.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 17, 2010, 03:00:09 PM
Pendulummania is on the way :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0r5MYHcHQ4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 17, 2010, 03:05:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xobOVXwQQ5w
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mr_bojangles on January 21, 2010, 10:07:02 PM
the easiest thing to do would be to make two and make them power each other

why hasn't he tried that? it seems he has multiple replications, so why not just literally hook them up to each other??
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 09, 2010, 06:51:09 PM
Two-stage oscillator on Free Energy Conference and Exhibition in Rome

http://www.europeanconsumers.it/freeenergy/index.asp

http://asse.altervista.org/volantino_WEB.pdf
http://asse.altervista.org/BrochureWEB.pdf

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Event:2010:International_Free_Energy_Conference_and_Exhibition_by_European_Consumers_Association
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on February 16, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
Hello, here there's a new test of automatization of the oscillator. I think this is the right way, a first step for closing the loop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MfErED3WII

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpoFs7Crxhg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjwVc95oho




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mscoffman on February 17, 2010, 01:50:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8&feature=related

I like this one, where the guy lights bunches squeeze flashlights
with his pendulum. All he needs is to take out all the light bulbs
and wire them all together through diodes. Then build the
Bedini motor circuit - a magnetic mirror circuit, and mount a
powerful magnet at the base of the weight to keep the weight
moving.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 19, 2010, 03:56:57 PM
Hello, here there's a new test of automatization of the oscillator. I think this is the right way, a first step for closing the loop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MfErED3WII

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpoFs7Crxhg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjwVc95oho

Excellent work Andrea!
You must not forget a fact that the pendulum's pivot point in the two-stage oscillator is going up and down together with a lever so you need to include this vertical displacement in designing your pendulum automatics.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on February 22, 2010, 05:23:03 PM
Hi everybody, in Rome the last week there was an interesting convention on free energy. Look at this youtube channel, the guy is publishing any clips of the interviews on milkovic's oscillator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGPuX12bxR4

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 01, 2010, 02:08:13 AM
Free Energy Centrifugal Force Converter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9RtZfsuXg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on March 02, 2010, 07:43:34 AM
Free Energy Centrifugal Force Converter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9RtZfsuXg

@ Merg:

Thanks for posting that for me. That's My Video. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9RtZfsuXg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9RtZfsuXg)

I am attaching the Phun .phz folder in a .zip file for any one that wants to play around with the variables.  The device is very simple, but would require a very sturdy frame, bearings and structural mounting to operate at highest efficiencies.

I hope someone decides to build a test model and lets me know how it goes. We need less expensive energy! Free if possible!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on March 02, 2010, 08:06:25 AM
Original idea, MoRo!

Can Phun extract energy from the output side, apart from the back and forth sliding weight being brought into spring-assisted oscillation? Can you put friction on it that doesn't slow down the circular rotation on the left?

Thanks,
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on March 02, 2010, 08:46:24 AM
Original idea, MoRo!

Can Phun extract energy from the output side, apart from the back and forth sliding weight being brought into spring-assisted oscillation? Can you put friction on it that doesn't slow down the circular rotation on the left?

Thanks,

@ Cloxxki

I am not proficient with Phun yet. But what I can tell you is that if enough force is placed on the right side of the fulcrum, such that it would not move at all, that is to say a force >= the centrifugal forces exerted by the rotating mass on the left side of the fulcrum, then the rotating mass will rotate even faster (like a balanced propeller).

You have the file available, examine it for yourself, and have Phun. ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 02, 2010, 05:34:29 PM
@ MoRo

put a load at the output side to test how it will work in that case.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on March 02, 2010, 06:26:05 PM
@ MoRo

put a load at the output side to test how it will work in that case.

@ Merg

The square shaped mass that I have attached to the right side of the fulcrum is representative of a load for it takes energy to reciprocate the mass. (an object in motion tends to stay on that trajectory unless subjected to an opposing force.) It requires energy or work to revere its direction, So it is the load.

In Phun, decreasing the size of the square on the right reduces its mass. When this is done, the amplitude of the reciprocation of the square mass increases. And the energy required to rotate the mass on the left side increases slightly. (the spin slows if energy input rate is unchanged). this would probably be due to the fact that the orbiting mass must travel further in an elliptical orbit than it would have to in a tight circle.

Also, increasing the size of the square mass on the right increases its mass. When this is done, the amplitude of the reciprocation of the square decreases. And the energy required to rotate the mass on the left side reduces. (the spin speeds up if energy input rate in unchanged). Again, probably due to its more perfectly circular orbit.

I hope this answers your questions.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on March 02, 2010, 11:10:22 PM
@ MoRo

put a load at the output side to test how it will work in that case.

@ Merg:

Ok. I added a load and posted a 2nd Video. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec_tzbyHmRo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec_tzbyHmRo)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on March 08, 2010, 07:06:25 PM
@ MoRo

put a load at the output side to test how it will work in that case.

You must see this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNtEtBXYn0Q
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 08, 2010, 10:47:51 PM
@ MoRo

could you post the phun files here or somewhere else where it can be downloaded?

thanks :-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 08, 2010, 10:50:55 PM
@ MoRo

could you post the phun files here or somewhere else where it can be downloaded?

thanks :-)

never mind, found it!

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on March 09, 2010, 01:40:29 AM
To all looking at my videos and and Phun File:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNtEtBXYn0Q

I know The Phun program and my videos only show 2D but think deeper.
Think 3eee Deee!!!

Imagine a child's swing set with a bowling ball swinging in one of the seats...

OK. Now imagine a LOG across 3 of the seats!!!

In other words, don't think of just a rotating bowling ball... THINK OF A ROTATING LOG! Both may have the same circumference, but if the broad side of log hit you, its going to do a lot more damage. More mass in the same swing radius!!  This machine can be made to be truly powerful.  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 21, 2010, 02:25:39 AM
New Milkovic's video

Mechanical Advantage of Pendulum Drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt7iQmKtHu8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on April 21, 2010, 08:50:35 AM
New Milkovic's video

Mechanical Advantage of Pendulum Drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt7iQmKtHu8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt7iQmKtHu8)

are you kidding ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on April 21, 2010, 09:12:59 AM
New Milkovic's video

Mechanical Advantage of Pendulum Drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt7iQmKtHu8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt7iQmKtHu8)

same old demonstrations, nothing but blah blah blah blah blah, doesn't prove anything, no free energy/overunity here. i guess you can say its an efficient system but that is all. until someone makes a self runner we have nothing. NOTHING!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 21, 2010, 03:49:14 PM
Video description says "Veljko Milkovic's Video Message for Rome Free Energy Conference 2010"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on April 21, 2010, 04:00:53 PM
Video description says "Veljko Milkovic's Video Message for Rome Free Energy Conference 2010"

but there is nothing new !!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 21, 2010, 07:10:09 PM
same old demonstrations, nothing but blah blah blah blah blah, doesn't prove anything, no free energy/overunity here. i guess you can say its an efficient system but that is all. until someone makes a self runner we have nothing. NOTHING!
I agree. If it's so awesome a system, let it place little weights to the same height as the main pendulum was raised. One little weight each time. Surely before the thing runs out of stream, the weights lifted will add up to more than the main pendulum's weight? 12x the main pendulum's weight.

With the little weights, they could be taken from the 2nd stage, and placed on the 1st stage, at the same height. Instant OU and continious movement!  But, it will slow down, quickly. Anything you extact, is gone forever. I'd love to see disproof of that.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on April 21, 2010, 08:52:43 PM
I agree. If it's so awesome a system, let it place little weights to the same height as the main pendulum was raised. One little weight each time. Surely before the thing runs out of stream, the weights lifted will add up to more than the main pendulum's weight? 12x the main pendulum's weight.

With the little weights, they could be taken from the 2nd stage, and placed on the 1st stage, at the same height. Instant OU and continious movement!  But, it will slow down, quickly. Anything you extact, is gone forever. I'd love to see disproof of that.

This is a 2 stage system. If stage 1 (the pendulum) were designed as a frictionless system, then it would power stage 2 (the fulcrum) forever according to Newtons Law. So efficency of the device only has to do with how much friction exist in stage 1 of the device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 21, 2010, 11:30:59 PM
This is a 2 stage system. If stage 1 (the pendulum) were designed as a frictionless system, then it would power stage 2 (the fulcrum) forever according to Newtons Law. So efficency of the device only has to do with how much friction exist in stage 1 of the device.
Eh, yes. But they claim 12x more out than in. Just wiggling back and forth in a frictionless environment, ANY object does that.
Powering stage 2 is no big deal. It happens. But any energy you extract from stage 2, like gently pushing a weight off onto the adjecent shelf while at the highest point, will reduced the system's amplitude.
If it is OU, where is the extra energy going in all the setup previously shown? I tryle want to be proven wrong here. If this is good OU, I'll invent devices to make use of it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on April 22, 2010, 08:22:06 AM
Eh, yes. But they claim 12x more out than in. Just wiggling back and forth in a frictionless environment, ANY object does that.
Powering stage 2 is no big deal. It happens. But any energy you extract from stage 2, like gently pushing a weight off onto the adjecent shelf while at the highest point, will reduced the system's amplitude.
If it is OU, where is the extra energy going in all the setup previously shown? I tryle want to be proven wrong here. If this is good OU, I'll invent devices to make use of it.

Your statements are pretty accurate. I'm not sure were the 12 times slogan came from, But, I do believe that You are comparing apples to oranges...

The device shown by Milkovic needs gravity on both sides (or spring tension on the output) of the system to do any kind of WORK. Gravity is the medium, so its not simply an issue of removing weight from the output side to a shelf were it would then have a potential (non working) state, that would be equivalent to taking the device out of a gravitational field (its medium) and expecting it to still work.  It simply wont work without gravity any more than it would work without pushing the pendulum into a swing. Yes, gravity causes the acceleration AND deceleration of the pendulum, but the Gain (kinetic gain that is) comes from the increased Apparent Mass of the pendulum. The increase comes from Centrifugal Force caused by the angular momentum of the pendulum mass at its maximum speed at the bottom of its swing. Since gravity is what causes the pendulum to accelerate to a speed where centrifugal forces are significant, no energy need be input into the system, short of that required to start and maintain the pendulum  amplitude.  On ether side of the swing however the pendulum mass goes into free fall and so it looses Apparent Mass.  Therefore on the input side of the 2nd stage you get an Apparent Mass Extra Heavy/Apparent Mass Nil cycle. The Work that can be performed by the 2nd sage as a result of this cycle is greater that that required to maintain the 1st stage pendulums amplitude at a desirable swing level.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on April 22, 2010, 08:40:16 AM
Your statements are pretty accurate. I'm not sure were the 12 times slogan came from, But, I do believe that You are comparing apples to oranges...

The device shown by Milkovic needs gravity on both sides (or spring tension on the output) of the system to do any kind of WORK. Gravity is the medium, so its not simply an issue of removing weight from the output side to a shelf were it would then have a potential (non working) state, that would be equivalent to taking the device out of a gravitational field (its medium) and expecting it to still work.  It simply wont work without gravity any more than it would work without pushing the pendulum into a swing. Yes, gravity causes the acceleration AND deceleration of the pendulum, but the Gain (kinetic gain that is) comes from the increased Apparent Mass of the pendulum. The increase comes from Centrifugal Force caused by the angular momentum of the pendulum mass at its maximum speed at the bottom of its swing. Since gravity is what causes the pendulum to accelerate to a speed where centrifugal forces are significant, no energy need be input into the system, short of that required to start and maintain the pendulum  amplitude.  On ether side of the swing however the pendulum mass goes into free fall and so it looses Apparent Mass.  Therefore on the input side of the 2nd stage you get an Apparent Mass Extra Heavy/Apparent Mass Nil cycle. The Work that can be performed by the 2nd sage as a result of this cycle is greater that that required to maintain the 1st stage pendulums amplitude at a desirable swing level.

LOL
are you serious ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 22, 2010, 08:50:59 AM
Your statements are pretty accurate. I'm not sure were the 12 times slogan came from, But, I do believe that You are comparing apples to oranges...

The device shown by Milkovic needs gravity on both sides (or spring tension on the output) of the system to do any kind of WORK. Gravity is the medium, so its not simply an issue of removing weight from the output side to a shelf were it would then have a potential (non working) state, that would be equivalent to taking the device out of a gravitational field (its medium) and expecting it to still work.  It simply wont work without gravity any more than it would work without pushing the pendulum into a swing. Yes, gravity causes the acceleration AND deceleration of the pendulum, but the Gain (kinetic gain that is) comes from the increased Apparent Mass of the pendulum. The increase comes from Centrifugal Force caused by the angular momentum of the pendulum mass at its maximum speed at the bottom of its swing. Since gravity is what causes the pendulum to accelerate to a speed where centrifugal forces are significant, no energy need be input into the system, short of that required to start and maintain the pendulum  amplitude.  On ether side of the swing however the pendulum mass goes into free fall and so it looses Apparent Mass.  Therefore on the input side of the 2nd stage you get an Apparent Mass Extra Heavy/Apparent Mass Nil cycle. The Work that can be performed by the 2nd sage as a result of this cycle is greater that that required to maintain the 1st stage pendulums amplitude at a desirable swing level.
This all seems plausible.
From a small 1st stage, a large 2nd stage is brought into movement, oscillation actually. No work is being done, as the 2nd stage is dependent on the 1st one. And the 1st stage, will reduce in amplitude the moment the 2nd stage is asked to do any kind of work. Lift a weight, press a light button, anything is too much, the system will come to a halt.
We get to see a great show of moving weights, but they're in such an odd balance, that nett, nothing it happening apart from the hand inputting energy (highly efficiently) via tapping the first stage.
I'll repeat. When I'm convinced there is work to be taken out without the 1st stage slowing down proportionately, I'll make a device for the betterment of mankind to make use of the principle.
The famous water pump works nicely, but is based on peak load from CF, overcoming stiction in the pump itself, I'm pretty sure. An ingenous application, but not OU. There's not so much water being pumped up, and not very high.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on April 22, 2010, 02:47:44 PM

LOL
are you serious ?

I don't understanding your LOL. I ment that the user doesn't have to accelerate the mass himself to get the centrifugal force. Gravity does that for him.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on April 22, 2010, 03:04:22 PM
This all seems plausible.
From a small 1st stage, a large 2nd stage is brought into movement, oscillation actually. No work is being done, as the 2nd stage is dependent on the 1st one. And the 1st stage, will reduce in amplitude the moment the 2nd stage is asked to do any kind of work. Lift a weight, press a light button, anything is too much, the system will come to a halt.
We get to see a great show of moving weights, but they're in such an odd balance, that nett, nothing it happening apart from the hand inputting energy (highly efficiently) via tapping the first stage.
I'll repeat. When I'm convinced there is work to be taken out without the 1st stage slowing down proportionately, I'll make a device for the betterment of mankind to make use of the principle.
The famous water pump works nicely, but is based on peak load from CF, overcoming stiction in the pump itself, I'm pretty sure. An ingenous application, but not OU. There's not so much water being pumped up, and not very high.

Oscillations ARE the RESULT of energy input. If you don't put energy in, you won't have oscillations.

You will phisically expend more energy oscillating stage 2 using your own energy than if you use your energy to keep the pendulum oscillating and allow the centrifugal force gain to oscillate stage 2.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 22, 2010, 09:53:21 PM
Oscillations ARE the RESULT of energy input. If you don't put energy in, you won't have oscillations.

You will phisically expend more energy oscillating stage 2 using your own energy than if you use your energy to keep the pendulum oscillating and allow the centrifugal force gain to oscillate stage 2.
So, you need to put the energy in to get the oscillation. But when you stop the oscillation, the energy doesn't come out?
I believe the jury is still out on whether energy is really stored in 2nd stage oscillator, when it's impossible to retrieve it, and constant input on the 1st stage is required to keep it going.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on April 22, 2010, 10:56:40 PM
So, you need to put the energy in to get the oscillation. But when you stop the oscillation, the energy doesn't come out?
I believe the jury is still out on whether energy is really stored in 2nd stage oscillator, when it's impossible to retrieve it, and constant input on the 1st stage is required to keep it going.

Anything that changes direction of travel requires energy to change it's direction. An oscillation IS just that!...  Wind pushes on the water and a wave (oscillation) is created. It has an amplitude and a frequency... That's energy in motion... Work. If the wave comes ashore, it moves some sand or something and that's it! The wave is gone. It won't keep going.

With the 2 stage device your push on stage 1 is a light push because you have gravity assist. The pendulum accelerates due to gravity. The speed of curviture at the bottom of the swing translates into centrifugal force. Then, the equivelent centripetal force acts on the input side of stage 2 for an even greater push. The result is that a mass on the output side is set into oscillation. Every single time the output mass is lifted against gravity in it's oscillation amplitude, that is an expression of work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 30, 2010, 02:05:43 AM
Here are some updates from YouTube:

Milkovic's Pendulum Replica videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gSokCcsu7s                     

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiLLlFYOv18                           

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTue9xzH8sU                   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6u8dSfbMH8                 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxF-egvVSZM                     

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHQn3kuG5c0               

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D73mcdvhyZA                   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 30, 2010, 02:20:41 AM
Anything that changes direction of travel requires energy to change it's direction. An oscillation IS just that!...  Wind pushes on the water and a wave (oscillation) is created. It has an amplitude and a frequency... That's energy in motion... Work. If the wave comes ashore, it moves some sand or something and that's it! The wave is gone. It won't keep going.

With the 2 stage device your push on stage 1 is a light push because you have gravity assist. The pendulum accelerates due to gravity. The speed of curviture at the bottom of the swing translates into centrifugal force. Then, the equivelent centripetal force acts on the input side of stage 2 for an even greater push. The result is that a mass on the output side is set into oscillation. Every single time the output mass is lifted against gravity in it's oscillation amplitude, that is an expression of work.
Are you stating the 2nd stage as output mass? If the 2nd stage is prevented to come back down, a second weight can be substituted half a cycle later to be lifted in its turn, the oscillation is gone.
Even though the second stage seems to represent great work done for little input, the fact that it moves against gravity doesn't mean the device is overcoming all the 2nd stage weight each time. The unhindered downward motion of the 2nd stage is essential, making the 2nd stage just a big dangling mass that can't be used for anything but crushing a few raw eggs, and even then at a loss of energy.
I used to believe, but see it only as a complicated brainteaser.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on April 30, 2010, 07:02:28 AM
Are you stating the 2nd stage as output mass? If the 2nd stage is prevented to come back down, a second weight can be substituted half a cycle later to be lifted in its turn, the oscillation is gone.
Even though the second stage seems to represent great work done for little input, the fact that it moves against gravity doesn't mean the device is overcoming all the 2nd stage weight each time. The unhindered downward motion of the 2nd stage is essential, making the 2nd stage just a big dangling mass that can't be used for anything but crushing a few raw eggs, and even then at a loss of energy.
I used to believe, but see it only as a complicated brainteaser.

I neither argue for nor against Milkovic's device, as I have my own proposed device that I believe would be superior to the pendulum device for energy production. My device would work even in a gravityless environment by utilising centrifugal forces from a full rotational input mass, for both positive and negative amplitudal energy on stage 2. See my videos on youtube channel: MagnaMoRo.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 21, 2010, 01:48:46 AM
Here are the updates from RHEAD100:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud8LLaN_9TQ
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOSkVFmK8rk
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRxbi7rXElM
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wySWMDGLiqo
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yujjo94CL5Y

Hoping he'll give some details here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 21, 2010, 03:30:24 AM
I neither argue for nor against Milkovic's device, as I have my own proposed device that I believe would be superior to the pendulum device for energy production. My device would work even in a gravityless environment by utilising centrifugal forces from a full rotational input mass, for both positive and negative amplitudal energy on stage 2. See my videos on youtube channel: MagnaMoRo.

Which is nothing new. Sorry but that was suggested long ago, its just that Rhead has to show what the basic idea can do. In no doubt, if this this is to be commercial and compact we need stronger forces than gravity to aid its operation, and centrifugal force solely depends on rotational speed...

But........ energy input increases with the square of velocity, which has led me to doubt whether that approach can actually compete with a pendulum or spring pushed at the 'nodes', where the velocity is zero.

Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on May 21, 2010, 06:31:03 AM
Which is nothing new. Sorry but that was suggested long ago, its just that Rhead has to show what the basic idea can do. In no doubt, if this this is to be commercial and compact we need stronger forces than gravity to aid its operation, and centrifugal force solely depends on rotational speed...

But........ energy input increases with the square of velocity, which has led me to doubt whether that approach can actually compete with a pendulum or spring pushed at the 'nodes', where the velocity is zero.

Julian

To address your concerns about energy increase with velocity. It isn't like were talking about having to obtain very high velocity here. In fact, the energy increase with velocity, that you mention, comes from air friction, which can be virtually eliminated by placing the devices in a vacuum or low pressure chamber.  Once the rotating mass has reached the desired rate of rotation, particularly in a vacuum, it would take very little effort to maintain that desired  rate.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on May 21, 2010, 12:05:36 PM
To address your concerns about energy increase with velocity. It isn't like were talking about having to obtain very high velocity here. In fact, the energy increase with velocity, that you mention, comes from air friction, which can be virtually eliminated by placing the devices in a vacuum or low pressure chamber.  Once the rotating mass has reached the desired rate of rotation, particularly in a vacuum, it would take very little effort to maintain that desired  rate.

No sorry, maybe I didn't explain it correctly. What I am talking about is really acceleration.

When you increase the speed or velocity of something you must expend energy. That's because you have given the mass kinetic energy, which you can see with the formula is always the square of the velocity. And this energy increase is based on the fact that as the velocity of an object increases, be it small or large, it will take more energy for each unit of time to accelerate it another m/s, because; as the meters per second increases, this means that you have to push on it for a longer distance, which is more work.

Btw just to mention it, this seems to kill of a lot of my previous ideas about velocity and gears.
Just thought you'd like to know....
Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on May 21, 2010, 04:54:20 PM
No sorry, maybe I didn't explain it correctly. What I am talking about is really .

When you increase the speed or velocity of something you must expend energy. That's because you have given the  kinetic energy, which you can see with the formula is always the square of the velocity. And this energy increase is based on the fact that as the velocity of an object increases, be it small or large, it will take more energy for each unit of time to accelerate it another m/s, because; as the meters per second increases, this means that you have to push on it for a longer distance, which is more work.

 just to mention it, this seems to kill of a lot of my previous ideas about velocity and gears.
Just thought you'd like to know....
Julian

I guess I realy don't understand the point your trying to make, because in either machine (Milkovic's or mine), the machine will have to be "accelerated", so to speak, to the "starting point". For Milkovic's, you will have to move the pendulum from 6:00 O'clock (zero potential energy) to starting point of 3:00 O'clock or 9:00 O'clock (maximum potential). Once the Starting point is obtained, gravity is used to do the acceleration and at 6:00 O'clock you have maximum speed of curviture for maximum centrifugal force.

Under the same operating conditions, the "starting point" of my machine would be 12:00 O'clock high. As such, gravity would accelerate it to a much greater speed of curviture by the time it got to 6:00 O'clock. And similar to the pendulum device, only a very small amount of energy added at the 12:00 O'clock position would be enough to bring it right back around to the 12:00 O'clock position again. Furthermore, the potential energy can be stored between runs by stopping and starting the machine with the input mass in the 12:00 O'clock position.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 23, 2010, 02:21:29 PM
Anything that changes direction of travel requires energy to change it's direction.
Sort of. I you run past a traffic sign pole, and let your extended hand engage it, you'll change direction without losing speed. And possibly strain your arm. The pole doesn't care, it wants to be left alone. In theory, EARTH is brought a bit out of alignment due to the change of direction. Would we take energy from Earth this way, or merely send it in a slightly different direction?
If two identical bouncing balls hit each other head-on at equal speed, they continue in opposite directions, same speeds again.

A brain teaser might be this one:
Two wheels are found to be of identical build, spinning at identical rpm, just an inverse of each other without slowing down. The nice thing about frictionless wheels...
This is such a unique find, it's decided to bring them together. The wheels engage side-to-side like lost soulmates, and...stop turning instantly. Was Energy used to slow them down? Was KE killed? Or was there never real movement?
Each wheel could have run a load before coming to a halt, but now both came to a halt and we didn't use the energy!
The more Milkovic demonstrations I see, the more it comes across like gospel. Experiments are inconclusive due to disadvantaging traditional energy transtions with angles and overhead weight.

I hope Rhead managed something. From his latest video's I don't se what his plan exactly is.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 23, 2010, 02:36:30 PM

The more Milkovic demonstrations I see, the more it comes across like gospel. Experiments are inconclusive due to disadvantaging traditional energy transtions with angles and overhead weight.

I experiment this for three years ... and ...
yes it is impossible to get good work with this stuff
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on May 23, 2010, 05:44:37 PM
Sort of. I you run past a  pole, and let your extended hand engage it, you'll change direction without losing speed. And possibly strain your arm. The pole doesn't care, it wants to be left alone. In theory, EARTH is brought a bit out of alignment due to the change of direction. Would we take energy from Earth this way, or merely send it in a slightly different direction?
If two identical bouncing balls hit each other head-on at equal speed, they continue in opposite directions, same speeds again.

A brain teaser might be this one:
Two wheels are found to be of identical build, spinning at identical rpm, just an inverse of each other without slowing down. The nice thing about frictionless wheels...
This is such a unique find, it's decided to bring them together. The wheels engage side-to-side like lost soulmates, and...stop turning instantly. Was Energy used to slow them down? Was KE killed? Or was there never real movement?
Each wheel could have run a load before coming to a halt, but now both came to a halt and we didn't use the energy!
The more Milkovic demonstrations I see, the more it comes across like gospel. Experiments are inconclusive due to disadvantaging traditional energy transtions with angles and overhead weight.

I hope Rhead managed something. From his latest video's I don't se what his plan exactly is.

Reguarding your 2 wheel brain teaser:
The two wheels will as a whole stop rotating, but for a sure, the energy won't just stop... It will be fully converted into multi frequency vibrations down to the molecular level, resulting in heat, sound and possibly damage to the wheels. The same thing that happens to airplane wheels when they suddenly hit the runway on landing. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 23, 2010, 06:36:04 PM
Reguarding your 2 wheel brain teaser:
The two wheels will as a whole stop rotating, but for a sure, the energy won't just stop... It will be fully converted into multi frequency vibrations down to the molecular level, resulting in heat, sound and possibly damage to the wheels. The same thing that happens to airplane wheels when they suddenly hit the runway on landing.
Good answer :-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on May 24, 2010, 10:00:28 AM

I experiment this for three years ... and ...
yes it is impossible to get good work with this stuff

Why don't you publish your experiments?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 24, 2010, 11:59:06 AM
Why don't you publish your experiments?

I put severals pics of my setup here
 
the losses are very small , there is no heat
the input is very week , it is a solar panel 4 cm x 1 cm !
 
I have with the same input a simple pendulum and a double pendulum
 
when then simple one runs the double one does not
 
but when the double one runs it has more speed and more apparent energy
but when you load it , no more energy
 
dont try mecanical load because all the losses kill the effect
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 11, 2010, 02:49:14 AM
The latest update from veljkomilkovic.com

New Breakthrough in Over Unity Theory

Dear friends,
 
we are glad to inform you that a new breakthrough has been achieved in over unity theory!

After the research and analytical work a new theory has been developed and now Jovan Marjanovic and academician Veljko Milkovic are presenting the theory which says that acting force against moving body will not only accelerate the mass of the body, but also its initial kinetic energy too. The product of initial velocity and additional velocity times the mass would be measurement of extra energy or over-unity energy...

Jovan Marjanovic & Veljko Milkovic - Kinetic Energy and Over Unity

The goal of this work is to point out some important facts in formulas for kinetic energy and momentum (quantity of the movement) for moving bodies.
It will be shown that over unity behavior is inherent in movement itself.

In this work the authors will discuss:

- origin of the formulas for linear momentum and kinetic energy,

- principle of adding energy to a moving body as the key for over unity,

- initial velocity in gravitation field,

- the best way of adding energy to the pendulum,

- validity of relativity of classic mechanics inside an inertial frame.

Key words: velocity, kinetic energy, momentum, over-unity, pendulum.

The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 155KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Veljko_Milkovic_Kinetic_Energy_and_Overunity.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on June 11, 2010, 01:27:13 PM
...
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Veljko_Milkovic_Kinetic_Energy_and_Overunity.pdf

As proof of OU, it is stated that:
- when you push a ball with a certain work and a force F, it acquires a velocity v, and a kinetic energy 1/2*m*v²
- now the ball is rolling, and you repeat the first operation: you push again the ball with same work and same force F, it acquires a velocity 2*v, and a kinetic energy 1/2*m*2²*v²
It is concluded that:
we have only doubled the work and obtained four times the kinetic energy!

This is total nonsense. Speed is relative to a reference frame, and so is the kinetic energy.
Energy is frame dependant.

In order to suppose that the work to accelerate the ball from 0 to v is the same as to accelerate it from v to 2*v, we have to suppose that in the second case, we accelerate the ball from 0 to v in a reference frame already at speed v relative to the first one. Thus we calculated two works of same value but relative to two different frames of reference. To add them is meaningless.
From the initial reference frame, we accelerated the ball from 0 to 2*v, therefore the work we expended is of cource 1/2*m*2²*v².

The way Marjanovic does physics math is an absurdity not only from relativity viewpoint but also in Newton's mechanics.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 14, 2010, 05:53:42 PM
The latest update from the authors:


Dear Friends,

Several people already expressed great concern about possibility if the force acting against the ball could pass the same energy to the ball after the ball started to move.
The problem was that the force should pass extra path in order to catch and push the ball.

We already explained that the force must be fast enough in order to catch and to push the ball.
However, we forget to mention that acting force should be an Impulse, without passing extra path.
Imagine turning the wheel by the hand. The hand would pass the same path every time, but probably somewhat faster next time. Magnetic force would be the best to use. If acted on the wheel it would act against nearest magnet on the wheel and pass the same path every time.

By using the pendulum all this issues would become invalid because the pendulum comes to stop on each side and there is no any extra path passed by the force if the force was used in highest positions.

To illustrate impact of extra velocity (this time it was angular velocity) to the space module Explorer I, please read the document on the internet:

„Von Braun’s 50-year-old Secret“ on the site:
http://www.enterprisemission.com/Von_Braun.htm

Sincerely,

Jovan Marjanovic and Veljko Milkovic
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on June 15, 2010, 06:28:44 PM
Very nice job:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb9dgb_bdBM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on June 16, 2010, 09:18:37 AM
Quote
...
We already explained that the force must be fast enough in order to catch and to push the ball.
However, we forget to mention that acting force should be an Impulse, without passing extra path.
...

Meaningless. What means "fast enough"? How much? What means "passing extra path"? Where is the impulse applied from? Where are the equations? Those in the pdf are wrong or misinterpreted. It has to be honestly rewritten.

Milkovic's pendulum is a usefull device for some applications but under unity and perfectly explainable with current known physics laws. Nothing more. Or prove it by making it selfrunning instead of providing misleading math; this work would be much more profitable. If we had "12 times more output than input", this should be very very easy...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on June 23, 2010, 02:35:53 PM
On the Internet there are many replicas who confirming surplus and over unity for 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system. Of course, some confirmed less than 12 times, but still confirm the over unity. The easiest way is to contest a success.
There is nothing more powerful than the idea whose time has come.
 :)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=951414596138700872#
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 29, 2010, 06:02:17 PM
Here are the new videos:

Milkovic's Pendulum Replica video 8, 9, 10 (KG 1340 PENDULUM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MzYmRFjog
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_wAPc4GIC8
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on June 29, 2010, 06:19:31 PM
Here are the new videos:

Milkovic's Pendulum Replica video 8, 9, 10 (KG 1340 PENDULUM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MzYmRFjog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MzYmRFjog)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_wAPc4GIC8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_wAPc4GIC8)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU)


there is nothing !
no data , no OU !!

"The easiest way is to contest a success."

where do you see a success ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rensseak on June 29, 2010, 09:43:08 PM

there is nothing !
no data , no OU !!

"The easiest way is to contest a success."

where do you see a success ?

Did he say something about success ???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on June 30, 2010, 06:13:54 AM
Did he say something about success ???
you have to ask it to salomon
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 30, 2010, 05:16:44 PM

there is nothing !
no data , no OU !!

"The easiest way is to contest a success."

where do you see a success ?

It's just a demonstration how I see that.

2 new videos from the same group:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJAHms5h_rs
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk3MABMLa0k

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bubba1 on July 01, 2010, 01:55:10 AM
"Let’s suppose that force F acted again against the ball pushing it for the
same period of the time and with the same intensity.... it is logical to assume that force F passed the same kinetic energy of
1 Joule to the ball and increased the velocity of the ball for 1m/s again. This
means that force F passed totally energy of 2 Joules to the ball and caused it to
move with constant speed of 2m/s." - From "Jovan Marjanovic, Veljko Milkovic – Kinetic Energy and Over Unity"

These guys are flunking High School physics.  The same force F applied to the ball for the same time T would give the same acceleration, meaning the ball would be travelling at 2V at the end; but the energy given to the ball, namely Force times Distance, would be greater the second time because the distance covered by the ball while undergoing acceleration the second time would be greater than the first distance because the ball is travelling faster the second time.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on July 01, 2010, 01:49:04 PM
Send 10% of the claimed excess energy on the output side, back to the input, and it will run indefinately. Perpetuum Mobile.

Why, I ask, do talented inventors keep spending so much time on a dead end idea? The OU is just not there in the 2-stage oscillator. False math does not subdue laws of nature.

Do they work for Big Oil, keeping mental resources focussed down this dead end road? A big accusation that would be, but the alternative option would be contrasting my mention of them as talented. Time to move on for them to a technology that does work. 1.2x OU will do just fine if they find it. Imagine that, extracting 20% of a complicated flywheel's KE, without it slowing down...
This invention cannot give up 0.01% of its output without slowing down.

Usually I'm not so sure about something working or not working, but this time I am. It just doesn't add up.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on July 01, 2010, 05:54:05 PM
The easiest way is to deny everything ... Here we see the success! Everyone in the world working on inventions of Veljko Milković and that is most important - to explore.
There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come... you will see  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on July 01, 2010, 07:13:14 PM
The easiest way is to deny everything ... Here we see the success! Everyone in the world working on inventions of Veljko Milković and that is most important - to explore.
There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come... you will see  :)

 
where is the success ?
  Quote from: rensseak on 29 June 2010, 21:43:08 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg247097#msg247097)
Quote
    Did he say something about success 
 
you have to ask it to salomon
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on July 03, 2010, 04:09:59 PM
You're so jealous ...
Ask something constructive ...
View the Internet, and then say!!! :o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on July 03, 2010, 05:15:25 PM
You're so jealous ...
Ask something constructive ...
View the Internet, and then say!!! :o

why are you scaming people ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on July 04, 2010, 04:51:36 PM
The most important thing is to keep working on inventions. Of course, whole world working on them. It's not an easy job and requires high skills.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 04, 2010, 07:32:24 PM
This is real simple. every piece of this system has been in use for hundreds if not thousands of years.

if you go back several hundred posts, the mathematics of this sytem have been explained in great detail by a number of people working on the problem. but apparently, this is still left misunderstood.

so, for the mechnically inclined ( or the mathematically inhibited),
all one has to do is attach the "hammer" to the winding mechanism from a clock. connect the Escapement to the top of the pendulum arm.

Viola - you have a 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation test unit.
of A, after doing this you will see the reality of the situation, that this is simply a 12 times more Efficient system (than other systems) , but still far less than Unity.

That is not to say the study of this device is without merit.
While it is definately not "OU", This is most likely the closest to a COP=1 system mankind has yet to invent. When you combine the output energies ( from the dozen or so hammer strikes under load) from one [E = Mgh] lift and release of the pendlum, you see that the energy values on both sides of the equation nearly balance out. leaving only a small fraction of the energy lost to friction.
indicating a near perfect conversion of energy from pendulum to hammer.
Considering the frictional losses to be negligible, energy value of each strike of the hammer is equal to the loss in height of the pendulum, at the top of its swing, times its mass, times gravity. Or it can be said that the input energy of the system is equal to the sum of the integral forces from the hammer strikes.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on July 04, 2010, 09:46:06 PM
This is real simple. every piece of this system has been in use for hundreds if not thousands of years.

if you go back several hundred posts, the mathematics of this sytem have been explained in great detail by a number of people working on the problem. but apparently, this is still left misunderstood.

so, for the mechnically inclined ( or the mathematically inhibited),
all one has to do is attach the "hammer" to the winding mechanism from a clock. connect the Escapement to the top of the pendulum arm.

Viola - you have a 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation test unit.
of A, after doing this you will see the reality of the situation, that this is simply a 12 times more Efficient system (than other systems) , but still far less than Unity.

That is not to say the study of this device is without merit.
While it is definately not "OU", This is most likely the closest to a COP=1 system mankind has yet to invent. When you combine the output energies ( from the dozen or so hammer strikes under load) from one [E = Mgh] lift and release of the pendlum, you see that the energy values on both sides of the equation nearly balance out. leaving only a small fraction of the energy lost to friction.
indicating a near perfect conversion of energy from pendulum to hammer.
Considering the frictional losses to be negligible, energy value of each strike of the hammer is equal to the loss in height of the pendulum, at the top of its swing, times its mass, times gravity. Or it can be said that the input energy of the system is equal to the sum of the integral forces from the hammer strikes.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on July 09, 2010, 07:44:34 PM
My new video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piLa_NEVn5U&sns=em

Enjoy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on July 09, 2010, 11:43:52 PM
My new video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piLa_NEVn5U&sns=em

Enjoy.
I like it!
Can you let the simulation perform any work or overcome any friction at all, without it losing rpm or amplitude?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on July 10, 2010, 12:32:20 AM
I like it!
Can you let the simulation perform any work or overcome any friction at all, without it losing rpm or amplitude?

YES!
Coming soon to a YouTube near You...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on July 10, 2010, 06:42:32 AM
My new video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piLa_NEVn5U&sns=em (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piLa_NEVn5U&sns=em)

Enjoy.

wow! looks good!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on July 10, 2010, 08:06:52 AM
I like it!
Can you let the simulation perform any work or overcome any friction at all, without it losing rpm or amplitude?

OK. I goofed at the end of this video, but I'm not ashamed to put it up anyway. But it demonstrates that it can be done.
No spring assist!
All centrifugal force!
Input and output mass are same simulated material.
Output mass almost 5 times more mass than input mass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-q6niq9Rks&sns=em

Enjoy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 18, 2010, 06:37:52 PM
COPIED FROM "Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?"
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7443.msg

QUOTE FROM AnandAadhar

Well, nobody... Studying the pendulum to drive a flywheel, I've also studied the two-phase pendulum of Milkovic, and looped the two phase pendulum succesfully with a flywheel and a feedback magnet pulsing back the pendulum, but it gave no overunity in my set-up. It works indeed as he demonstrates, the pendulum being pushed can drive a wheel or a pump. But claiming overunity here is a bridge too far to my opinion. Milkovic inertial oscillator is inspiring though. The principle works best if you create a disc with a weight positioned on one side and then vibrate the axis in a linear fashion. That easily gives a turning rotor. Thus it is suited for converting a linear movement into a cyclic one. Inertial oscillation is a principle used by Finsrud also in His perpetuum mobile. His ball is the weight oscillating the central pendulum in his machine. So there is a connection with PM and OU. But gravity (like magnetism) alone is conservative and will not deliver energy without engaging magnetism actively with this gavitational oscillator e.g..   That is my conclusion as yet.


My Milkovic replication Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJsXLiLNJHA
My Finsrud analysis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on July 18, 2010, 07:17:20 PM
COPIED FROM "Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?"
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7443.msg

QUOTE FROM AnandAadhar

Well, nobody... Studying the pendulum to drive a flywheel, I've also studied the two-phase pendulum of Milkovic, and looped the two phase pendulum succesfully with a flywheel and a feedback magnet pulsing back the pendulum, but it gave no overunity in my set-up. It works indeed as he demonstrates, the pendulum being pushed can drive a wheel or a pump. But claiming overunity here is a bridge too far to my opinion. Milkovic inertial oscillator is inspiring though. The principle works best if you create a disc with a weight positioned on one side and then vibrate the axis in a linear fashion. That easily gives a turning rotor. Thus it is suited for converting a linear movement into a cyclic one. Inertial oscillation is a principle used by Finsrud also in His perpetuum mobile. His ball is the weight oscillating the central pendulum in his machine. So there is a connection with PM and OU. But gravity (like magnetism) alone is conservative and will not deliver energy without engaging magnetism actively with this gavitational oscillator e.g..   That is my conclusion as yet.


My Milkovic replication Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJsXLiLNJHA
My Finsrud analysis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q

Okay
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 18, 2010, 07:37:10 PM
@AnandAadhar

you should read these two papers published by Milkovic team on attempts to mechanically close the loop

Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions for the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf

Keys of Understanding Gravity Machines of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on July 19, 2010, 04:25:52 PM
@AnandAadhar

you should read these two papers published by Milkovic team on attempts to mechanically close the loop

Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions for the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf

Keys of Understanding Gravity Machines of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf

In fact I tried the first Marjanovic suggestion of using a disc with a weight at one side. I made it into a loop. No overunity has been observed with what I tried.


video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYAKzW0H2yY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 19, 2010, 10:11:39 PM
I have collected the posts related to Milkovic's oscillator from other topics

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9410.0

From Ted Ewert
I am not implying that a rotating pendulum is incapable of producing extra energy. Milkovic has shown how his oscillator generates energy from a pendulum. The problem is that the Chalkalis device will not produce any extra energy on the main shaft as it has been presented.
You'll see this for yourself if you build a replica. Then you can figure out a real way of extracting energy from this device.

Cheers,

Ted

From Cloxxki
Milkovic has shown nothing, other than a nice way to get high torque out for short pulses, from longer low-torque, equal work input. Not one replication, even a recent genious one that had full syncronization from output to input, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJsXLiLNJHA ) was unable to keep going, let alone offer the 12x claimed output.

If you've ever seen a better attempt, let alone by Milkovic himself, please let me know, I'd be most interested to see, study, and replicate it.

From Ted Ewert
That was indeed an elaborate and clever attempt to loop a pendulum, but I could have told you it wasn't going to work. I've tried the same thing only to find that the timing of the pulse is critical. If the feedback pulse is applied at the wrong time it won't work no matter what you do. The Milkovic device is also primarily an oscillator, which denotes resonance. This attempt never got anywhere near resonance, which in itself invalidates any conclusions.
Not being able to loop the output power only proves that the method used was unsuccessful. It does not prove anything else. The attempt cited here merely shows me that this guy didn't really understand the primary mechanism to begin with.

From Cloxxki
I think your response doesn't do the attempt justice. I, for one, don't believe or at least don't understand the hype about resonances. I've yet to find a situation where 1+1=3.
Would you like to venture that a similarly looped system will prove to be a source of energy when merely timed a bit better? This would imply that indeed timing of an input pulse is vital. And that then would imply that energy is lost or won, depending on timing of release. Such a statement would be going against preservation of energy.
Anyway, what do I know. So many geniouses are devoting their free time to Milkovic, and all we get is odd oscillations, always under unity.

From Ted Ewert
The guy who built that feedback mechanism didn't understand how the Milkovic oscillator really works. It's as simple as that. The impulse should be applied at the top of the stroke, not at the bottom. Also, if you have too much vertical travel, like this guy did, it takes all the velocity out of the pendulum. There is also a delicate balance between the pendulum weight, it's period, the length of the lever and the weight or springs used. He was dead in the water before he started.
Until you build a Milkovic replication and get it into resonance, you are just fooling around with a very inefficient pendulum.
Milkovic calls it an oscillator for the simple reason that it doesn't work worth beans until it is oscillating (in resonance). 
Very few people take the time and effort to really understand what's going on with his device, which is well worth replication and study.

Ted

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7443.15

From Xaverius
Closing the loop on this device should be simple in principle. You could use a solenoid plunger or pulse motor rotation.  Have you checked the results of Raymond Heade's work in the Dallas Texas area?  He was supposed to have built a large outdoor device with an attachment to close the loop in October of 2009.  I haven't kept up with it lately, you might write Raymond, he's easy to talk to and his input is in these forums.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 25, 2010, 03:31:09 AM
Here is another gravity pendulum pump in practical application
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwC5mLoU--c
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on July 25, 2010, 05:22:26 AM
Here is another gravity pendulum pump in practical application
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwC5mLoU--c

Yes, full circle pendulums are the way to go!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on July 25, 2010, 06:40:06 AM
Here is another gravity pendulum pump in practical application
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwC5mLoU--c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwC5mLoU--c)

there is no magic in this !!
 
and no OU !!
 
only the inirtia of the big mass
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: woopy on July 25, 2010, 10:26:26 PM
hi all

here some idea to actuate the system. . I replaced the pendulum with a so called Chalkalis gravity wheel.

It works well and now lets go to some measurements to check the viability of such a system.

bravo for all the work and good luck at all

Laurent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr69L9fJpY4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on July 26, 2010, 01:22:32 AM
If this isn't capable of producing overunity, then I guess nothing ever will be... I envision this as a dual pendulum on each side of the lift arm.

My newest video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbvG5ay6Ub0&feature=youtube_gdata

Enjoy and please let me know what you think.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on July 26, 2010, 10:46:01 AM
If this isn't capable of producing overunity, then I guess nothing ever will be... I envision this as a dual pendulum on each side of the lift arm.

My newest video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbvG5ay6Ub0&feature=youtube_gdata

Enjoy and please let me know what you think.

Nice design, even though actual building must be done. Can you make a feedback loop from the bottom of the weight lifted to the right of the pendulum to give it a push at the critical time at 3 o clock?  Everything works this way - in the computer - provided it is mechanically conceived correctly. In reality upon trial the conservative force of gravity on its own with such a feedback loop  as yet results in a dead machine because of frictional losses. Have you actually built any of your designs? 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on July 26, 2010, 11:08:21 AM
My new video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piLa_NEVn5U&sns=em

Enjoy.



Thanks for setting this up. Good work. But In reality it won't spin like this for more than two or three times. Can't you introduce frictional losses with the program for a more realistic view of a design? When would OU be shown by this test of a design? The movement here never dies. Like one works in a vacuum with no frictional losses.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 01, 2010, 10:16:38 PM
YouTube updates - Milkovic's oscillator replica from Brazil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBGVejaovuI
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj8rTsmZr9c
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2ASC__h8KY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on August 02, 2010, 02:49:22 PM
YouTube updates - Milkovic's oscillator replica from Brazil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBGVejaovuI
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj8rTsmZr9c
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2ASC__h8KY

Nice job, especially the alternating version. Gives less vibration of the machine itself.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 03, 2010, 11:51:04 PM
Here is a new video of a pendulum pump we mentioned earlier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7jCGk6jvME
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 04, 2010, 08:05:32 PM
...news from veljkomilkovic.com:

Theory of Gravity Machines - Gravitational Field As a Fuel
 
Jovan Marjanovic -- Theory of Gravity Machines -- New Breakthrough in Physics of Two-Stage Oscillator

This work is a presentation of simple theory of using conservative gravitational field as a fuel. In order to extract energy from conservative field, gravity shield effect is necessary. With proper usage of the shield, variable gravity field should be created in part of a system. Energy can be extracted only if difference in potential exists between two poles. The logic of this theory will also be used to explain two-stage mechanical oscillator of Veljko Milkovic and areas of its improvement.

Key words: gravity machine, gravity shield, over unity, pendulum.

The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 122KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 16, 2010, 05:24:35 PM
Pendulum Generator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvxwnE9Iono

"Genrator pendulum weight which means turning 360 degrees can produce a movement which is applied to an electric generator, this system increases the speed tilting more and more, which should be controlled by a braking circuit magnetico.CESrevolucion. Inventer Argentinean"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 16, 2010, 05:59:33 PM
Pendulum Generator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvxwnE9Iono

"Genrator pendulum weight which means turning 360 degrees can produce a movement which is applied to an electric generator, this system increases the speed tilting more and more, which should be controlled by a braking circuit magnetico.CESrevolucion. Inventer Argentinean"

Sounds like Bob Kostoff's claim. The video is as murky as his, to say the least. What is this all about? Can there be more details given so people can reproduce it -- it's claimed to be a self-sustaining device, right?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 16, 2010, 07:03:14 PM
Sounds like Bob Kostoff's claim. The video is as murky as his, to say the least. What is this all about? Can there be more details given so people can reproduce it -- it's claimed to be a self-sustaining device, right?

I've just found it from YouTube search.

Here is another video from the same guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhEqB0k8Ops
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 16, 2010, 07:18:26 PM
Thanks @Merg. You don't know who this guy is, right? Like I said, this is very similar to Bob Kostoff's early claim. Recall Bob Kostoff later recanted saying that he's actually using compressed air. Wonder what the story here is?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 16, 2010, 07:19:43 PM
Don't forget Walter Torbay was also from Argentina. His was a magnet motor, though. So, is it here we go again?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 16, 2010, 10:20:46 PM
...news from veljkomilkovic.com:

Theory of Gravity Machines - Gravitational Field As a Fuel
 
Jovan Marjanovic -- Theory of Gravity Machines -- New Breakthrough in Physics of Two-Stage Oscillator

This work is a presentation of simple theory of using conservative gravitational field as a fuel. In order to extract energy from conservative field, gravity shield effect is necessary. With proper usage of the shield, variable gravity field should be created in part of a system. Energy can be extracted only if difference in potential exists between two poles. The logic of this theory will also be used to explain two-stage mechanical oscillator of Veljko Milkovic and areas of its improvement.

Key words: gravity machine, gravity shield, over unity, pendulum.

The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 122KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf

This work is really interesting. Finally we have an explanation how gravity energy can be extracted from conservative gravitational field. I really hope that somebody will soon solve the problem with movable pivot point and make great over unity machine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 17, 2010, 07:27:21 AM
Just to let you know. Tried to send a pm to @cesrevolucion on youtube regarding his "Generator pendulum" but he has locked his messaging system. What else is new?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 17, 2010, 07:57:28 PM
Too bad that fellow Jovan Marianovic isn't participating in these discussions. There maybe something in his writing but it has to be discussed more thoroughly. He, for instance, observes the fact that the pivot feels no effect of mass at the extreme points when the pendulum is attached to the lever in Milkovic's device, referring to that as gravity shield, but doesn't seem to account for the fact that all this is at the expense of energy spent.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 17, 2010, 07:59:27 PM
Also, that Argentinean device is even more interesting but the inventor prefers to hide. That's a red flag right there.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on August 18, 2010, 02:39:10 PM
Also, that Argentinean device is even more interesting but the inventor prefers to hide. That's a red flag right there.

Yes gravity to my opinion is a conservative force and will not deliver OU energy without any other force providing an input. Ony then the oscillations of Milkovic' two phase pendulum or Finsrud's ball-on-track can prove to be effective in amplicfication. I am still engaged in further testing this notion linking a flat disc inertial oscillator to my IPMM cakra rotor. I hope to find a complementary balanced action between the two fundamental and conservative natural forces of magnetism en gravity that reveals the energy of time. A hopeful, but scientifically naive vision as with a single oscillator in a loop or a single magnet stator/rotor loop, can still be justified in another context. Everybody adds his ideas and the end result is an accumulation of our collective knowledge and experience. All glory to the assembled devotion.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 21, 2010, 04:38:04 PM
Too bad that fellow Jovan Marianovic isn't participating in these discussions. There maybe something in his writing but it has to be discussed more thoroughly. He, for instance, observes the fact that the pivot feels no effect of mass at the extreme points when the pendulum is attached to the lever in Milkovic's device, referring to that as gravity shield, but doesn't seem to account for the fact that all this is at the expense of energy spent.

Jovan said several times that movable pivot point costs energy for gravity shield effect.
Pendulum with fixed pivot point costs very little but can not be used for anything. His idea was to fix the problem of movable pivot point with lag of the lever. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 21, 2010, 10:02:55 PM
Jovan said several times that movable pivot point costs energy for gravity shield effect.
Pendulum with fixed pivot point costs very little but can not be used for anything. His idea was to fix the problem of movable pivot point with lag of the lever.

Maybe he has something rational in mind but it isn't getting across. See if he get here in this forum to explain what his idea really is.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 21, 2010, 10:13:57 PM
Yes gravity to my opinion is a conservative force and will not deliver OU energy without any other force providing an input. Ony then the oscillations of Milkovic' two phase pendulum or Finsrud's ball-on-track can prove to be effective in amplicfication. I am still engaged in further testing this notion linking a flat disc inertial oscillator to my IPMM cakra rotor. I hope to find a complementary balanced action between the two fundamental and conservative natural forces of magnetism en gravity that reveals the energy of time. A hopeful, but scientifically naive vision as with a single oscillator in a loop or a single magnet stator/rotor loop, can still be justified in another context. Everybody adds his ideas and the end result is an accumulation of our collective knowledge and experience. All glory to the assembled devotion.

You know, the oldest OU idea ever, that of the Bhaskara wheel, might have worked. It's a purely gravity machine and the reason I'm saying that is because I've calculated its (one of its latest renditions -- that of Sjack Abeling) overall torque at every position of the wheel and it is persistently negative. Also, you can see that the center of mass is persistently sideways (to the right) with respect to the axle at every angle of rotation. This means that the lever rule is continuously violated at every position of the wheel. Thus, undoubtedly, that machine is intrinsically OU by its very construction. It should be made to spin by some talented engineering which will decrease the friction below the limits of competition with the OU effect. Put sand (increase friction) in an internal combustion engine and it won't work. This, of course, doesn't mean that internal combustion engines cannot work and have never worked in history. Same thing here. Ingenious engineering is what is needed to have a turning Bhaskara wheel (that has probably been the case way back in the centuries but has been suppressed).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on August 22, 2010, 11:37:41 AM
You know, the oldest OU idea ever, that of the Bhaskara wheel, might have worked. It's a purely gravity machine and the reason I'm saying that is because I've calculated its (one of its latest renditions -- that of Sjack Abeling) overall torque at every position of the wheel and it is persistently negative. Also, you can see that the center of mass is persistently sideways (to the right) with respect to the axle at every angle of rotation. This means that the lever rule is continuously violated at every position of the wheel. Thus, undoubtedly, that machine is intrinsically OU by its very construction. It should be made to spin by some talented engineering which will decrease the friction below the limits of competition with the OU effect. Put sand (increase friction) in an internal combustion engine and it won't work. This, of course, doesn't mean that internal combustion engines cannot work and have never worked in history. Same thing here. Ingenious engineering is what is needed to have a turning Bhaskara wheel (that has probably been the case way back in the centuries but has been suppressed).
I have applied the Bhaskara/DaVinci model in a magnetic so-called cakra wheel, a rotor I am testing now for over two years. See my IPMM series.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4449.new.html#new
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 23, 2010, 08:58:05 AM
...
The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 122KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf

Marjanovic is far from being a credible author. He makes beginner's mistakes in physics.
See:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg244606#msg244606

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on August 25, 2010, 11:23:23 AM
Marjanovic is far from being a credible author. He makes beginner's mistakes in physics.
See:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg244606#msg244606

Hello, did you read this paper yet? http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
I've read it carefully. I've found no mistakes, rather I think this finally gives a sense to this system, two stage oscillator.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 25, 2010, 01:27:40 PM
@andrea,

Quote
Hello, did you read this paper yet? http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
I've read it carefully. I've found no mistakes, rather I think this finally gives a sense to this system, two stage oscillator.

Like I said in a previous post regarding the quoted text, he may have a point but it isn't coming across. It isn't at all clear how his analysis leads to OU. Maybe he can come to this board and explain it more thoroughly, as I suggested earlier.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 25, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
I'll try to break it up.

* 2-stage oscillator is presented, claimed to be OU
* papers are presented, supposedly explaining the math towards OU
* no design that offered, even on paper, any OU, is yet to be presented.

I am no engineer by trade, but can be rather clever if I set my mind to it. A few patent apps and grants support this.
If someone can explain to me a math that shows OU, I can design an apparatus to exploit it, to great efficiency.
I came to these forums to find such math, which I am incapable of coming up with myself.

All seems to point to the math just not working at all, else Milkovic' devices would be powering themselves. No-one is so incompetent to find out new math, and not be able to exploit it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 25, 2010, 03:07:54 PM
The math may be OK and it may prove the device is OU but that's not a guarantee that making it self-sustaining would be an easy engineering task. Friction losses, for instance, may pose insurmountable difficulties. Engineering of such devices is a daunting task. Not that it hasn't occurred in the past (and has been suppressed) but it isn't at all as easy as it seems even if the math proves the machine is OU.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: utilitarian on August 26, 2010, 12:17:18 AM
All seems to point to the math just not working at all, else Milkovic' devices would be powering themselves. No-one is so incompetent to find out new math, and not be able to exploit it.

You cannot use existing math theory to prove overunity.

Modern physics, and the math behind it, will always lead you into 2+2=4 theory.  You have to show that 2+2=5 to have overunity.  So there is no math answer under current math theory.

To come up with math that shows overunity, one must come up with new math.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: WilbyInebriated on August 26, 2010, 12:19:51 AM
You cannot use existing math theory to prove overunity.

Modern physics, and the math behind it, will always lead you into 2+2=4 theory.  You have to show that 2+2=5 to have overunity.  So there is no math answer under current math theory.

To come up with math that shows overunity, one must come up with new math.

omnibus did... and shruggedatlas is supporting omnibus, so it must be real. ::)
see the steorn thread.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 26, 2010, 01:20:44 AM
You cannot use existing math theory to prove overunity.

Modern physics, and the math behind it, will always lead you into 2+2=4 theory.  You have to show that 2+2=5 to have overunity.  So there is no math answer under current math theory.

To come up with math that shows overunity, one must come up with new math.

Not so. Math doesn't make physics. Physics makes math. The first thing to be understood is the physics that brings about OU. Once it is understood clothing it in math terms is trivial. No new math. Deeper understanding of physics is what occurs when discovering OU.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 26, 2010, 01:22:58 AM
By the way, OU isn't 2 + 2 = 5. That's a wrong understanding as to what OU is.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 26, 2010, 08:33:38 AM
You cannot use existing math theory to prove overunity.
...
To come up with math that shows overunity, one must come up with new math.

It's right. But Omnibus pretends he can. It is like proving that Krishna exists, using the bible.   :D



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 26, 2010, 10:06:32 AM
Hello, did you read this paper yet? http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
I've read it carefully. I've found no mistakes, rather I think this finally gives a sense to this system, two stage oscillator.

Hi Andrea
Contrarily to the other paper that I had debunked (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Veljko_Milkovic_Kinetic_Energy_and_Overunity.pdf), this one has no math. It is just successions of fuzzy affirmations without any proof. Thus like Euclideas, we can easily dismiss it because "what is asserted without proof can be denied without proof".

Nevertheless here is a general consideration. Marjanovic bases his "theory" on the "idea of using
gravity shield for gravity energy extraction (if the shield was ever invented)." (sic).
It has already been proved by physicists that even if gravity was "shieldable", it would not lead to free energy or perpetual motion. The reason is obvious: the gravity flux is conservative. To understand it, we don't even need the proof from high level physicists by their flux-conservative formalism. Gravity force is a 1/r² force, like the electric force. The math which applies to the gravity force works also for the electric force, we have just to replace F=m*g by F=q*E and the masses by electric charges. The difference is that we can shield the electric field. So a perpetual motion based on Marjanovic's idea but using an electric field could be easily built: for example a vertical wheel charged on its circumference, above a static electric field which would be shielded under one half-side of the wheel. The wheel would be perpetually unbalanced, yet it doesn't work for the same reason the electric field is conservative as the gravity field (you can't switch off field lines, a shield only guides them).
Moreover OU is not demonstrated in Milkovic's pendulum. With an incredible "12 times more output than input" it would be very easy to loop it and make it self-sustainable. No one succeeded.
It follows that Marjanovic's "theory of gravity" is meaningless verbosity based on no fact.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 26, 2010, 01:19:15 PM
It's right. But Omnibus pretends he can. It is like proving that Krishna exists, using the bible.   :D

Wrong analogy. Typical when someone doesn't have a clue.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 26, 2010, 01:30:04 PM
Quote
Quote from: andrea on August 25, 2010, 11:23:23 AM
Hello, did you read this paper yet? http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
I've read it carefully. I've found no mistakes, rather I think this finally gives a sense to this system, two stage oscillator.

Hi Andrea
Contrarily to the other paper that I had debunked (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Veljko_Milkovic_Kinetic_Energy_and_Overunity.pdf), this one has no math. It is just successions of fuzzy affirmations without any proof. Thus like Euclideas, we can easily dismiss it because "what is asserted without proof can be denied without proof".

Nevertheless here is a general consideration. Marjanovic bases his "theory" on the "idea of using
gravity shield for gravity energy extraction (if the shield was ever invented)." (sic).
It has already been proved by physicists that even if gravity was "shieldable", it would not lead to free energy or perpetual motion. The reason is obvious: the gravity flux is conservative. To understand it, we don't even need the proof from high level physicists by their flux-conservative formalism. Gravity force is a 1/r² force, like the electric force. The math which applies to the gravity force works also for the electric force, we have just to replace F=m*g by F=q*E and the masses by electric charges. The difference is that we can shield the electric field. So a perpetual motion based on Marjanovic's idea but using an electric field could be easily built: for example a vertical wheel charged on its circumference, above a static electric field which would be shielded under one half-side of the wheel. The wheel would be perpetually unbalanced, yet it doesn't work for the same reason the electric field is conservative as the gravity field (you can't switch off field lines, a shield only guides them).
Moreover OU is not demonstrated in Milkovic's pendulum. With an incredible "12 times more output than input" it would be very easy to loop it and make it self-sustainable. No one succeeded.
It follows that Marjanovic's "theory of gravity" is meaningless verbosity based on no fact.



You have debunked nothing. Marijanovic may or may not be right but you are not qualified to judge. Yours is a provincial blabber of someone desperately trying to appear learned but is only showing his confusion.

And, by the way, closing the loop of an OU device such as that of Milkovic is the most difficult, not the easiest engineering task because of the losses, as I have pointed out more than once. Closing the loop is only an engineering problem which cannot be used as a criterion for whether or not a device is OU.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 26, 2010, 05:08:35 PM
Maybe he has something rational in mind but it isn't getting across. See if he get here in this forum to explain what his idea really is.

The only thing we can do is to send him an e-mail from the contact he left in the paper.
If I get any comment I'll post here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 26, 2010, 05:16:16 PM
OK. Will be interesting to hear what he really has in mind.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on August 26, 2010, 05:22:41 PM
Hi Andrea
Contrarily to the other paper that I had debunked (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Veljko_Milkovic_Kinetic_Energy_and_Overunity.pdf), this one has no math. It is just successions of fuzzy affirmations without any proof. Thus like Euclideas, we can easily dismiss it because "what is asserted without proof can be denied without proof".

Nevertheless here is a general consideration. Marjanovic bases his "theory" on the "idea of using
gravity shield for gravity energy extraction (if the shield was ever invented)." (sic).
It has already been proved by physicists that even if gravity was "shieldable", it would not lead to free energy or perpetual motion. The reason is obvious: the gravity flux is conservative. To understand it, we don't even need the proof from high level physicists by their flux-conservative formalism. Gravity force is a 1/r² force, like the electric force. The math which applies to the gravity force works also for the electric force, we have just to replace F=m*g by F=q*E and the masses by electric charges. The difference is that we can shield the electric field. So a perpetual motion based on Marjanovic's idea but using an electric field could be easily built: for example a vertical wheel charged on its circumference, above a static electric field which would be shielded under one half-side of the wheel. The wheel would be perpetually unbalanced, yet it doesn't work for the same reason the electric field is conservative as the gravity field (you can't switch off field lines, a shield only guides them).
Moreover OU is not demonstrated in Milkovic's pendulum. With an incredible "12 times more output than input" it would be very easy to loop it and make it self-sustainable. No one succeeded.
It follows that Marjanovic's "theory of gravity" is meaningless verbosity based on no fact.

Hello exnihiloest, I've read carefully your message. You say that in all this paper there is no math, and it's quite true, except for a formula. The author says : "Potential energy of the pendulum raised to height "h",  is m * g * h". Then, he focus on the pendulum raised to 90 degrees: "..pivot point O feels no force in position 1 or position 5. For it, it is the same as if pendulum lost its mass m or gravity acceleration g became zero". We can try it, this is easily verifiable. The result is that if we have a "g=0" effect, the other bob of the oscillator should fall to the ground. This is also easily verifiable. Have you seen this part of the paper?

So, what does it means? Please note that this isn't a proof of overunity , but it's a key to (maybe) understand the behavior of this machine. It's a new point of view, I think, and maybe if it would appropriately developed it could lead to something good.

About your statements on conservative fields, I don't have enough knowledge of electric field so I can't agree or disagree with those concepts. I just want to remember you that this part of forum is thought for people that hope that the gravity could be used positively, in the future. And they hope this thing well knowing that no one until today has extract anything from the conservative field of gravity. Ok?

BTW, I also think that this forum is a place in which people speak of overunity and the way of reach it. This could be a bit crazy, and maybe could not guide to anything, this is obvious. But all this people is doing it freely and with expense of their money, and above all they do it with no offense for anyone. I don't know if Marjanovic read this forum, but he is also studying this machine without remuneration. So, we can refute his theory, but we can't denigrate him. I really don't understand the users that denigrate, like you do in your posts. What is the meaning of your behavior? Just rudeness, I fear. 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 26, 2010, 05:38:43 PM
Quote
And they hope this thing well knowing that no one until today has extract anything from the conservative field of gravity

With all due respect, that is not true. I have shown conclusively production of energy "out of nothing", that is, the possibility to have spontaneous displacement under the action of conservative forces. This is production of energy without depleting pre-existing energy sources.

Marjanovic may have something along these lines but at this point it isn't at all clear what his point is.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 26, 2010, 06:03:41 PM
With all due respect, that is not true. I have shown conclusively production of energy "out of nothing", that is, the possibility to have spontaneous displacement under the action of conservative forces. This is production of energy without depleting pre-existing energy sources.

Marjanovic may have something along these lines but at this point it isn't at all clear what his point is.
Only you are convinced of this.

What I seem to get, is that you calculated torque from a central axis, which I'm afraid is less relevant with the weight partically "off" the wheel, and the rest of the cycle the exle being partially disconnected as well.
If it's so sure there is OU, it's a matter of using some low friction material, building the darn thing, and placing it in a vacume chamber. Tap it, and it will spin right up.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 26, 2010, 06:11:22 PM
Quote
Only you are convinced of this

Why are you saying this? You have admitted more than once that you are not quakified in these matters. What is this desire in people not versed in the matters at hand to express opinions? Maybe you somehow rise In your own eyes and feel important this way? I don't know, this has become an epidemic. The ease to type posts helps, I guess.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on August 27, 2010, 09:34:37 AM
Why are you saying this? You have admitted more than once that you are not quakified in these matters. What is this desire in people not versed in the matters at hand to express opinions? Maybe you somehow rise In your own eyes and feel important this way? I don't know, this has become an epidemic. The ease to type posts helps, I guess.

Eh, OmniBot...

You cannot help yourself, can you?

WHERE CAN WE SEE THAT PROOF OF YOURS(!!!), "that OU HAS BEEN SHOWN (by You, of course) CONCLUSIVELY, BEYOND ANY REASON OF A DOUBT..."

"By the way, OU isn't 2 + 2 = 5. That's a wrong understanding as to what OU is."

Lol.. Ah, maybe 1+1=3, or 1+2=4?
It's quite obvious that you don't know what you're talking about....

I think for some time now that YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE NOT "QUAKIFIED" for (actually,) anything...

If you'll not show that proof of yours (OU beyond any reason of a doubt..etc...), bear the consequences...

Btw, I would like to hear your description of what "OU" really means, in your opinion....


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 27, 2010, 02:54:40 PM
You have debunked nothing. Marijanovic may or may not be right but you are not qualified to judge. Yours is a provincial blabber of someone desperately trying to appear learned but is only showing his confusion.
...

Omnibus, always involved in personal attacks instead of going to shool for learning?!
Sorry I have no more time to waste with a nutcase.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 27, 2010, 02:54:51 PM
Hello exnihiloest, I've read carefully your message. You say that in all this paper there is no math, and it's quite true, except for a formula. The author says : "Potential energy of the pendulum raised to height "h",  is m * g * h". Then, he focus on the pendulum raised to 90 degrees: "..pivot point O feels no force in position 1 or position 5. For it, it is the same as if pendulum lost its mass m or gravity acceleration g became zero". We can try it, this is easily verifiable. The result is that if we have a "g=0" effect, the other bob of the oscillator should fall to the ground. This is also easily verifiable. Have you seen this part of the paper? So, what does it means?

Thank you for your interest, Andrea.
When the pendulum is around the lowest position, the height of the pivot point is lower due to the lever movement. This means that the pendulum is lower than its normal position when the pivot point is steady. It has lost potential energy that can be used totally or partially on the other side of the lever.
Then the kinetic energy transforms into potential energy allowing the pendulum to go up again but relatively to the pivot point, which is lower. Thus the new highest position of the pendulum is lower than before. We can think that the pivot point can be freely rose again toward the first position because when the pendulum is at the highest position, it has no weight from the viewpoint of the pivot. This is true, "it is the same as if pendulum lost its mass m". But to rise the pivot point does not mean to rise the pendulum by same height! For example if the pendulum arm is horizontal at the highest position and you rise the pivot point, then the pendulum arm will have an angle. To change the height of the pivot point doesn't change the pendulum height (or very little). You lose a part of the mean height at each swing of the pendulum, depending on the part of its potential energy that you use on the other side of the lever, and consequently you have to regularly push the pendulum to maintain its swing.

Quote
About your statements on conservative fields, I don't have enough knowledge of electric field

Well, forget, I was thinking about magnetic field while writing "electric field", so my comparison was not very relevant. I will have to rewrite it.

Quote
I just want to remember you that this part of forum is thought for people that hope that the gravity could be used positively, in the future. And they hope this thing well knowing that no one until today has extract anything from the conservative field of gravity. Ok?

BTW, I also think that this forum is a place in which people speak of overunity and the way of reach it. This could be a bit crazy, and maybe could not guide to anything, this is obvious. But all this people is doing it freely and with expense of their money, and above all they do it with no offense for anyone. I don't know if Marjanovic read this forum, but he is also studying this machine without remuneration. So, we can refute his theory, but we can't denigrate him. I really don't understand the users that denigrate, like you do in your posts. What is the meaning of your behavior? Just rudeness, I fear.

The insight of ideas is not dependant on the intentions of the authors. "Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions".
The problem is neither to express fantastic ideas nor to build incredible machines. One day one of them will perhaps work. The problem is to claim that it works for sure without any serious measurements, without third party duplications, and to "explain" not observed facts or not proved facts according to specious theories that are obviously not consistant or containing severe math mistakes (if it is a good intention or a scam, the result is the same: unproductive).


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 27, 2010, 03:24:25 PM
Omnibus, always involved in personal attacks instead of going to shool for learning?!
Sorry I have no more time to waste with a nutcase.

Don't waste the time of the readers with your incompetent gibberish.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 27, 2010, 11:25:21 PM
Why are you saying this? You have admitted more than once that you are not quakified in these matters. What is this desire in people not versed in the matters at hand to express opinions? Maybe you somehow rise In your own eyes and feel important this way? I don't know, this has become an epidemic. The ease to type posts helps, I guess.
Since you asked,
I aspire to use my superficial but intuitive physics understanding to steer greater thinkers towards a shorter path to OU.
Once a working math or mechanical concept is found, I trust my ingenuity will step in to offer a design to take a significant step in optimizing efficiency. Simple, effective applications are my trade.

I have long given you the benefit of the doubt, being obviously several more levels educated than myself. Your deeply rooted unrefutable belief in fully proven OU after just a few calcs, put me off. It sets people on a longer path to actual OU.

I am myself wondering of the motives of the Milkovic and friends group. What are their intentions? Why come with such unfounded papers, and pendulums that merely focus peak load without OU?
Milkovic's science is like the emperor's new clothes. Only the really smart can understand it.

1.1x more output than input would be awesome already.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 27, 2010, 11:45:21 PM
Since you asked,
I aspire to use my superficial but intuitive physics understanding to steer greater thinkers towards a shorter path to OU.
Once a working math or mechanical concept is found, I trust my ingenuity will step in to offer a design to take a significant step in optimizing efficiency. Simple, effective applications are my trade.

I have long given you the benefit of the doubt, being obviously several more levels educated than myself. Your deeply rooted unrefutable belief in fully proven OU after just a few calcs, put me off. It sets people on a longer path to actual OU.

I am myself wondering of the motives of the Milkovic and friends group. What are their intentions? Why come with such unfounded papers, and pendulums that merely focus peak load without OU?
Milkovic's science is like the emperor's new clothes. Only the really smart can understand it.

1.1x more output than input would be awesome already.

That's not enough. We need more competent folks to get involved in this. Pure enthusiasm and hunch doesn't suffice.

And, by the way, how do you know these claims are unfounded? Someone told you that or you have a sound scientific argument to lay out?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 29, 2010, 12:40:37 PM
...
I am myself wondering of the motives of the Milkovic and friends group. What are their intentions? Why come with such unfounded papers, and pendulums that merely focus peak load without OU?
Milkovic's science is like the emperor's new clothes. Only the really smart can understand it.

1.1x more output than input would be awesome already.

I agree.
By coupling a pendulum with a lever, Milkovic invented a useful device for human handling. Nevertheless there is no OU and Marjanovic's math and theory are obviously false (see http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg244606#msg244606). So we can think that it has now become a scam.

As already said, conventional laws of physics are internally consistant and imply momentum and energy conservation in a closed system. If energy appears not to be conserved, either the system is open (there is an external hidden source) or the laws of physics are not internally consistent.
To pretend to prove OU in a closed system by using conventional laws of physics, is consequently a sign of error, ignorance or scam. It is an easy way to dismiss the claimers and avoid time wasting.
And as OU is not provable by conventional laws of physics, experimental proofs beyond any doubt are required and will be the base for new theories. The lack of such proofs, often coming with premature fuzzy theories supporting no facts, is the second easy way to dismiss the claimers.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 29, 2010, 02:36:42 PM
I agree.
By coupling a pendulum with a lever, Milkovic invented a useful device for human handling. Nevertheless there is no OU and Marjanovic's math and theory are obviously false (see http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg244606#msg244606). So we can think that it has now become a scam.

As already said, conventional laws of physics are internally consistant and imply momentum and energy conservation in a closed system. If energy appears not to be conserved, either the system is open (there is an external hidden source) or the laws of physics are not internally consistent.
To pretend to prove OU in a closed system by using conventional laws of physics, is consequently a sign of error, ignorance or scam. It is an easy way to dismiss the claimers and avoid time wasting.
And as OU is not provable by conventional laws of physics, experimental proofs beyond any doubt are required and will be the base for new theories. The lack of such proofs, often coming with premature fuzzy theories supporting no facts, is the second easy way to dismiss the claimers.

Don't waste the time of the readers with your rubbish. Assumptions such as the above regarding internal consistency are typical for stupid people.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on August 29, 2010, 06:41:53 PM
Has some one ever heard about the Dunning-Kruger effect? Try to google it, or search in Wikipedia. Some people in this forum really should read about this effect. Interesting reading! It applies to most people who claim them self to have surprior knowledge and skills. I hope I do step on somebodys toes ;D

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 29, 2010, 07:28:08 PM
That's an impossible way to explain away you lack of knowledge and incompetence. No effect you mention can substitute for your involving in hard work and systematic study at places dedicated for that called universities.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on August 29, 2010, 08:40:55 PM
Has some one ever heard about the Dunning-Kruger effect? Try to google it, or search in Wikipedia. Some people in this forum really should read about this effect. Interesting reading! It applies to most people who claim them self to have surprior knowledge and skills. I hope I do step on somebodys toes ;D

Vidar
Dunning-Kruger effect? Right in the target. But Omnibot has been linked with that diagnosis many, many times before, at several forums...
Obviously, he doesn't agree with it...

Quote
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which an unskilled person makes poor decisions and reaches erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence: because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[2]

"I proved OU beyond any reason of a doubt!".... (OmniBot, cca.2005-2010)

FFS...

Where the Hell is that proof of yours?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 29, 2010, 09:26:42 PM
The proof in question is for experts, not for dilettantes such as you. So, you may relax.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on August 29, 2010, 09:33:17 PM
The proof in question is for experts, not for dilettantes such as you. So, you may relax.


So, I guess, no one will ever see that "proof" of yours?

Dilettantes? Ouch...  ;D

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on August 29, 2010, 09:55:51 PM
The proof in question is for experts, not for dilettantes such as you. So, you may relax.
Try me!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on August 29, 2010, 10:06:57 PM
Dunning-Kruger effect? Right in the target. But Omnibot has been linked with that diagnosis many, many times before, at several forums...
Obviously, he doesn't agree with it...

"I proved OU beyond any reason of a doubt!".... (OmniBot, cca.2005-2010)

FFS...

Where the Hell is that proof of yours?
I think he knows very well that he suffers from this diagnosis. If he wasn't he would never bother to comment my post...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 29, 2010, 11:12:34 PM
Here is the short reply I got from Jovan Marjanovic about his theories:

“Theory ‘Kinetic Energy and Over Unity’ has been revoked. We found error concerning period of time T for a ball with initial velocity. It is not the same as if the ball didn’t have initial velocity.
We are sorry for confusion the theory caused and thanks to those who contributed in discussion.

Our official theory is ‘Theory of Gravity Machines’ http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf which says that dynamic gravity shield effect caused difference in potential in two parts of the system and when difference in potential exists energy can flow from higher potential to lower one.

Sincerely
Jovan"

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 29, 2010, 11:37:01 PM
I think he knows very well that he suffers from this diagnosis. If he wasn't he would never bother to comment my post...

That's correct, your posts should be ignored as any incompetent post should.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 29, 2010, 11:38:48 PM
Here is the short reply I got from Jovan Marjanovic about his theories:

“Theory ‘Kinetic Energy and Over Unity’ has been revoked. We found error concerning period of time T for a ball with initial velocity. It is not the same as if the ball didn’t have initial velocity.
We are sorry for confusion the theory caused and thanks to those who contributed in discussion.

Our official theory is ‘Theory of Gravity Machines’ http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf which says that dynamic gravity shield effect caused difference in potential in two parts of the system and when difference in potential exists energy can flow from higher potential to lower one.

Sincerely
Jovan"

Well, but that's trivial, isn't it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 30, 2010, 08:55:24 AM
...
Assumptions such as the above regarding internal consistency are typical for stupid people.

You are right, intelligent people already know it. The "above" was particularly written for you.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 30, 2010, 09:22:18 AM
...
I have shown conclusively production of energy "out of nothing"
...

Your delusion was interesting, at least to throw light for the psychiatric diagnosis.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 30, 2010, 09:38:08 AM
Here is the short reply I got from Jovan Marjanovic about his theories:

“Theory ‘Kinetic Energy and Over Unity’ has been revoked. We found error concerning period of time T for a ball with initial velocity. It is not the same as if the ball didn’t have initial velocity.
We are sorry for confusion the theory caused and thanks to those who contributed in discussion.

Our official theory is ‘Theory of Gravity Machines’ http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf which says that dynamic gravity shield effect caused difference in potential in two parts of the system and when difference in potential exists energy can flow from higher potential to lower one.

Sincerely
Jovan"

There are many other errors in Marjanovic's papers.
See http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg244606#msg244606

1) his "theory" is flawed
2) there is no proved fact of OU in Milkovic's device therefore a theory is not needed

We are pleased to see that the point 2 is the solution for point 1.   :)


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 30, 2010, 09:44:11 AM
Your delusion was interesting, at least to throw light for the psychiatric diagnosis.

You're as much a psychiatrist as you are a scientist. You are none of those so the prudent thing is to shut up and not continue to embarrass yourself. Don't waste the time of the readers with the crap you're spewing incessantly.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 30, 2010, 09:50:30 AM
There are many other errors in Marjanovic's papers.
See http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg244606#msg244606

1) his "theory" is flawed
2) there is no proved fact of OU in Milkovic's device therefore a theory is not needed

We are pleased to see that the point 2 is the solution for point 1.   :)

Who are we that are pleased? You're speaking about yourself in plural? The person writing the above is just one unless he suffers of some manias involving multiple personalities.

Milkovic may or may not have OU but it is not for you to judge because you are incompetent. Incompetent with maniacal tendencies.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 31, 2010, 02:43:14 AM
RHEAD100 is active again with new pendulum drive design. Probably more to come...

New escapement that works for two stage oscilator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBE0d484SFM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on August 31, 2010, 09:32:03 AM
...
The person writing the above is just one unless he suffers of some manias involving multiple personalities.
...

You should treat your symptoms, Omnibug.
http://tinyurl.com/yk4oyj8

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 31, 2010, 02:00:54 PM
You should treat your symptoms, Omnibug.
http://tinyurl.com/yk4oyj8

No, you can't tell anyone what he should do because you're incompetent. No link will help you for that to change. Incompetent with maniacal tendencies.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on August 31, 2010, 02:08:22 PM
No, you can't tell anyone what he should do because you're incompetent. No link will help you for that to change. Incompetent with maniacal tendencies.
Please! Is this of any relevance to others?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on August 31, 2010, 02:35:46 PM
Please! Is this of any relevance to others?
It is at least 12 times more arguing than constructive input ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on August 31, 2010, 03:20:39 PM
Please! Is this of any relevance to others?

How do you mean others? Didn't you see it's regarding one concrete person, @exnihiloest, who is hindering the constructive input in the thread with his incompetent gibberish.

Milkovic may or may not have OU but that's not for incompetents such as @exnihiloest (and several other misguided creatures) to decide despite his laborious activism here. We need to hear analysis based on scientific arguments and, even better, see a self-sustaining machine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on August 31, 2010, 04:06:40 PM
How do you mean others? Didn't you see it's regarding one concrete person, @exnihiloest, who is hindering the constructive input in the thread with his incompetent gibberish.

Milkovic may or may not have OU but that's not for incompetents such as @exnihiloest (and several other misguided creatures) to decide despite his laborious activism here. We need to hear analysis based on scientific arguments and, even better, see a self-sustaining machine.

Right!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 31, 2010, 07:20:57 PM
here

drawing isnt very accurate., but the hammer pulls the wire, the wire pulls the escapement, the escapement kicks the pendulum.
and you have the foundation for a self-winding clock.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Hoxan on August 31, 2010, 09:54:14 PM
@sm0ky2
good idea, but i think mechanical implementation of your setup is very hard to achieve. The main difficulty is synchronization of pulling wire with swinging pendulum. Wire always need to pull pendulum in the same moment to add energy, in every other case it will reduce it. Everything needs to be calibrated perfectly.

My idea is to use electronic circuit to drive the pendulum. Circuit called magbot pendulum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNn4Ebq7IYU
Beauty of this circuit is its self synchronization so there is no manual tweaking. Magnet passing above coil is inducting some voltage that is triggering transistor to switch polarity in coil to push magnet away. It works for every deflection angle. All you need is enough powerful magnet attached to the pendulum and strong coil.

Friend tested some configurations in working model, i did some in solidworks. We both end up with the same conclusion. Ideal angle of swinging pendulum is 90° (180 full cycle) and the minimum is 60° (120 full cycle). Only at this angles centripetal force is stronger then gravity force.
We will make some pendulum tests in Thursday with small coil (maybe two) and magnet, and i will post few pictures.

in attached picture you can see rendered model with angles (we will make device based on that model when we finish all tests and get all materials)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 01, 2010, 04:21:08 AM
Yes, i agree everything needs to be perfectly synchronized, but this is a very simple problem.

theres no need to resort to complex measurements of an electromagnetic coil.
and then figure out a way to generate electricity with the hammer to operate it.

i suggested the "escapement" because its already designed to do exactly what we want it to do.
and has been working perfectly, and with great efficiency for hundreds of years.


 if you watch the thing.... the hammer raises at bottom-center. then falls as the pendulum is somewhere off to the sides.
thats all you need.
the pendulum doesnt have to go to a full 90-degrees,
most clocks don't, because to swing for one second you can only have a pendulum-shaft of a specific length.
and since clocks are made in all kinds of variations, to keep time, you simply shorten or lengthen the width of the swings. ths is all done in the gearing between the weights and the escapement. but we're not building a clock, we dont really care when the pendulum gets its pull.

all you need to do is make is so when the hammer falls back down after beig lifted.... it pulls the wire and gives a tug on the escapement.
-----------------------------------


all it has to do is keep swinging.
if this is really " 12 times OU", that shouldn't be much of a problem...

the pendulum goes back as far as yr 100 A.D.
the escapement was invented in 1656
and the lever is at least as old as the archimedean era
     some 300 B.C.

these are all well known technologies..
combining the three isn't the issue..

so what is?  Why hasn't anyone done this yet?

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on September 01, 2010, 09:33:32 AM
How do you mean others? Didn't you see it's regarding one concrete person, @exnihiloest, who is hindering the constructive input in the thread with his incompetent gibberish.

Milkovic may or may not have OU but that's not for incompetents such as @exnihiloest (and several other misguided creatures) to decide despite his laborious activism here. We need to hear analysis based on scientific arguments and, even better, see a self-sustaining machine.

"Scientific arguments" say there is not OU in a closed system because momentum and energy are conserved. This theory always verified until now would be to revise only if it became not in agreement with new facts and observations.
As there is not one fact about Milkovic's device showing us OU, Milkovic's device has to be considered as a conventional device without OU, until proof of the contrary.

Not only you don't understand the laws of physics, Omnibug, but also you don't understand the basic scientific methodology. And not only you don't understand the basic rational and scientific methodology, Omnibug, but also you are spending your time in personal attacks.
Ignorant and vindictive people like you, are a waste of time for all goodwill analysts and experimenters.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 01, 2010, 11:59:36 AM
here

drawing isnt very accurate., but the hammer pulls the wire, the wire pulls the escapement, the escapement kicks the pendulum.
and you have the foundation for a self-winding clock.

I have tested this, see my previous posts and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJsXLiLNJHA , the hammer loaded a flywheel storing its energy and the flywheel was timed to push back to the pendulum. So a kind of escapement was created as you suggest. I found no overunity, even though my design could be improved. So my conclusion is not definite. I am still trying to improve this. It appears that three elements are needed: 1 the two-phase pendulum with the hammer driving a stator, 2 a rotor responding and storing the energy and 3 a transfer from the rotor of cyclic into linear movement in which the feedback pulse is discharged back to the pendulum at the right time and position.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on September 01, 2010, 01:18:27 PM
"Scientific arguments" say there is not OU in a closed system because momentum and energy are conserved. This theory always verified until now would be to revise only if it became not in agreement with new facts and observations.
As there is not one fact about Milkovic's device showing us OU, Milkovic's device has to be considered as a conventional device without OU, until proof of the contrary.

Not only you don't understand the laws of physics, Omnibug, but also you don't understand the basic scientific methodology. And not only you don't understand the basic rational and scientific methodology, Omnibug, but also you are spending your time in personal attacks.
Ignorant and vindictive people like you, are a waste of time for all goodwill analysts and experimenters.

The scientific truth is exactly the opposite. You, however, are incompetent to understand it, you're not a scientist and therefore you should't make pronouncements on scientific matters. Stop spewing yiur nonsense in the threads of this forum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Hoxan on September 01, 2010, 03:55:07 PM
I have tested this, see my previous posts and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJsXLiLNJHA , the hammer loaded a flywheel storing its energy and the flywheel was timed to push back to the pendulum. So a kind of escapement was created as you suggest. I found no overunity, even though my design could be improved. So my conclusion is not definite. I am still trying to improve this. It appears that three elements are needed: 1 the two-phase pendulum with the hammer driving a stator, 2 a rotor responding and storing the energy and 3 a transfer from the rotor of cyclic into linear movement in which the feedback pulse is discharged back to the pendulum at the right time and position.

Your pendulum and lever are not moving in way that Milkovic describes it. Masses are not calibrated to get proper movement. Pendulum angle is too small.
You should get something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CepH6OWze4

When the pendulum is at 0° gravity and centripetal force are both pushing down on the y axis and the mass on the lever is lifted up.
When the pendulum is at its maximums mass on the lever is pulled down by gravity force because on the pendulum Y part of centrifugal force is very small, it is 0 when deflection is 90° so its the ideal case. Minimal deflection is 60° in order to achieve milkovics principle.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 02, 2010, 06:28:53 PM
Your pendulum and lever are not moving in way that Milkovic describes it. Masses are not calibrated to get proper movement. Pendulum angle is too small.
You should get something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CepH6OWze4

When the pendulum is at 0° gravity and centripetal force are both pushing down on the y axis and the mass on the lever is lifted up.
When the pendulum is at its maximums mass on the lever is pulled down by gravity force because on the pendulum Y part of centrifugal force is very small, it is 0 when deflection is 90° so its the ideal case. Minimal deflection is 60° in order to achieve milkovics principle.

I know this, and try to make something better. It was just a first look to refute the idea that a loop was not possible as some were saying. So the hammer can drive a flywheel from which a feedbackpulse can be timed properly at the positions you mentioned. I am also studying the flat inertial oscillator (disc in stead of a pendulum) which has an adjustable speed more suited for different types of flywheels and feedback constructions. The two phase loses its attraction in construction because of the complication of cutting the speed in half because of the double pulse. There is an essential difference between the flat inertial oscillator and the two phase gravity pendulum. Next to the gravity wheel and the magnet motor we seem to have a third oscillator option now that equally might fail to prove OU. But maybe a combination of these matters leads to a result. I personally believe in a threefold time, space and material mode definition of basic forces and principles of reality. Marjanovic says both oscillators are viable as long as there is a moving pivot point in both. Testing all of this takes a lot of time. Theories are too easy. What I know for sure is that it is an inspiring option, adding the oscillator to the recipies in our OU cookbook.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on September 03, 2010, 09:59:11 AM
All experiments I have done with similar pendulums, does require more energy input if the lever are moving up and down. This movement will act like a break in the way a unbalanced wheel will viberate when it spins. If we manage to keep the wheel stable, it will spin freely, but if we allow the wheel to viberate (Because of the spinning inbalance) it will slow down the rpm's quite quick. The pendulum will also "swign forever" if the lever doesn't move up and down. This break works in this way: When the pendulum swings, the movement of the lever will always be delayed so it will counter act the movement of the pendulum. In an opposite scenario, we can activate the lever by hand in advance of the pendulums position to make it swing more.

So physics will therefor prevent more output than input, but the pendulum will be a very efficient way to provide as much output as possible compared to the energy we put in. However, never more output than input.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 03, 2010, 12:05:53 PM
All experiments I have done with similar pendulums, does require more energy input if the lever are moving up and down. This movement will act like a break in the way a unbalanced wheel will viberate when it spins. If we manage to keep the wheel stable, it will spin freely, but if we allow the wheel to viberate (Because of the spinning inbalance) it will slow down the rpm's quite quick. The pendulum will also "swign forever" if the lever doesn't move up and down. This break works in this way: When the pendulum swings, the movement of the lever will always be delayed so it will counter act the movement of the pendulum. In an opposite scenario, we can activate the lever by hand in advance of the pendulums position to make it swing more.

So physics will therefor prevent more output than input, but the pendulum will be a very efficient way to provide as much output as possible compared to the energy we put in. However, never more output than input.

Vidar

Input/output logic applies to a closed system. We are looking for conversion of energy from outside the system. A kind of space energy rectifier. What you say concerns the presently sitting paradigm, but consider this: the oscillator might deliver a tension in a circuit that by complementary action combining frequency and amplitude might add up to the energy of time in the universe (or OU). We as yet have no scientific knowledge or experimental evidence of such a time-law of nature, but to my opinion we are looking for it by experiment. This oscillator tension as we can see in Finsrud's version of his rolling ball on track, is derived from a flat oscillator representing the expansion of the universe by centrifugal inertial force, while the pendulum function is of the vertical dimension to fix the frequency by the gravitational contraction of the universe. Finsrud practically implements the slow down of his oscillator as you mention. Thus we have two types of oscillators, gravitational and inertial, as I mentioned above.  On itself the slowdown is no objection to OU. A transfer of energy through a magnet motor (stator/rotor setup) might fix the amplitude of cyclic time in the feedback loop so as to achieve a proper control of natural free energy. This is the logic: control the wild energy of nature, not create it. Thus you have expansion, contraction and rotation as the basic ingredients for a mature time concept. This is what I am testing at present. It's a complicated design in which factually Milkovic is split in an expanding aspect of oscillation and a contracting aspect.

See my (flat-oscillator) Finsrud study on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q
See also my oscillation by rotation and vice versa video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYAKzW0H2yY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 05, 2010, 01:54:31 AM
Here is something electrically interesting :)

Milkovic Pendulum motorized Hybrid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTLh_vYBpd4

"A hybrid Veljko Milkovic pendulum Motor. Runs on 12 volt 1.5 amp at 125 RPMs. The motor uses magnetic cancellation to make the push stroke on the magnetic wheel. It uses the electromagnet to attract the magnetic wheel.
If I had to guess I would say the end of the device produces about 50ft pound of torque in a 1 inch stroke at 100 strokes or so a minute."

There is also some animation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guPRVxOyeBE

He started a discussion on EnergeticForum
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6332-milkovic-pendulum-motorized-hybrid.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 05, 2010, 05:09:47 PM
Solenoid Powered Pendulum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oBteZ5_sOc
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zslTYb-HLf0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on September 05, 2010, 05:55:46 PM
@Merg,

These appear to be battery-powered devices. If so, they are completely not interesting. If you disagree tell us why we should pay attention to them?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 06, 2010, 01:08:19 PM
 
 
since the beginning of this thread (  01 December 2006, 00:11:41 )
 
<<  12 times more output than input, >>
 
and
 
nobody could give a proof of OU for this device !
 
so for me it is a scam !
 
so many people on this device why ?
 
what are you waiting for ?
 
what is your hope ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 06, 2010, 06:02:12 PM
@Merg,

These appear to be battery-powered devices. If so, they are completely not interesting. If you disagree tell us why we should pay attention to them?

It's an independent replica and deserves to be shared here. In the first stage it is a battery-powered device. He is just confirming the Milkovic principle, we'll see what he'll get...

Here is another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W1iscYPzD4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 07, 2010, 02:01:58 AM
Replica by Matthew Jones - Bouncer2_2.MPG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRkBamhlK8w
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on September 07, 2010, 06:50:12 AM
Replica by Matthew Jones - Bouncer2_2.MPG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRkBamhlK8w

So, why should we be interested in these battery-powered devices?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Hoxan on September 07, 2010, 07:31:15 AM
So, why should we be interested in these battery-powered devices?

because you can replace batteries with large capacitor which is being charged by generator connected to milkovics device.
these are only early tests with no overunity, classical mechanics.

I did some tests with 2 coil magbot pendulum, also powered with batteries. I get larger deflection by increasing voltage and lowering current through coils. So total integral of energy stays the same (power through time). Voltage is 4.8V, effective value of current is approx 60mA. Total energy over 1s is 1.152 Joules for pendulum with mass 36 grams. Large losses are in lego bearings, too much friction.

With better bearing and mass 15 kilos you need approx 500 joules of energy per second to run it continuously if pivot is fixet. Next test is to determine how much energy is transfered from input to output directly and how much is deflected back to input.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 07, 2010, 09:42:36 AM
because you can replace batteries with large capacitor which is being charged by generator connected to milkovics device.
these are only early tests with no overunity, classical mechanics.

I did some tests with 2 coil magbot pendulum, also powered with batteries. I get larger deflection by increasing voltage and lowering current through coils. So total integral of energy stays the same (power through time). Voltage is 4.8V, effective value of current is approx 60mA. Total energy over 1s is 1.152 Joules for pendulum with mass 36 grams. Large losses are in lego bearings, too much friction.

With better bearing and mass 15 kilos you need approx 500 joules of energy per second to run it continuously if pivot is fixet. Next test is to determine how much energy is transfered from input to output directly and how much is deflected back to input.

Good work, please continue the testing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on September 07, 2010, 09:51:11 AM
because you can replace batteries with large capacitor which is being charged by generator connected to milkovics device.
these are only early tests with no overunity, classical mechanics.

I did some tests with 2 coil magbot pendulum, also powered with batteries. I get larger deflection by increasing voltage and lowering current through coils. So total integral of energy stays the same (power through time). Voltage is 4.8V, effective value of current is approx 60mA. Total energy over 1s is 1.152 Joules for pendulum with mass 36 grams. Large losses are in lego bearings, too much friction.

With better bearing and mass 15 kilos you need approx 500 joules of energy per second to run it continuously if pivot is fixet. Next test is to determine how much energy is transfered from input to output directly and how much is deflected back to input.

So, then, post only when you have achieved a self-runner. Otherwise, posting results form a Milkovic non-OU you're reassuring everyone, critics the most, that self-sustaining Milcovic device cannot be made. Of course, I'm encouraging you to go on with the studies but am asking you to restrain from posting things that people have already seen -- a non-OU Milkovic device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 07, 2010, 03:57:57 PM
So, then, post only when you have achieved a self-runner. Otherwise, posting results form a Milkovic non-OU you're reassuring everyone, critics the most, that self-sustaining Milcovic device cannot be made. Of course, I'm encouraging you to go on with the studies but am asking you to restrain from posting things that people have already seen -- a non-OU Milkovic device.

Nice demand, but that would be the end of this thread. Maybe someone should only make demands if he leads the way in this too.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on September 07, 2010, 04:05:04 PM
Nice demand, but that would be the end of this thread. Maybe someone should only make demands if he leads the way in this too.

Why the end of this thread? So, you don't think a self-sustaining device based on Milkovic idea can ever be built, is that it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 07, 2010, 04:22:26 PM
Why the end of this thread? So, you don't think a self-sustaining device based on Milkovic idea can ever be built, is that it?

You say one should only post a success. Is this what you say such a success?
A selfrunning challenge? What is your experiment in this?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on September 07, 2010, 04:33:18 PM
You say one should only post a success. Is this what you say such a success?
A selfrunning challenge? What is your experiment in this?

I think one should post careful analytical results proving this is OU or if a device is to be posted then it should necessarily be OU. Repeating over and over again variations of Milkovic's device brings no advance.

There were several papers written with some attempts of tom solve the differential equations describing the system eve prior to it being self-sustaining. These should be continued. I think a couple of Serbian authors did that, other than Milkovic. As far as a constructed device goes, it make sense to publish only a self-sustaining one, as I already said. Do as much work as you wand, try all kinds of variants but why publish it if it isn't advancing the matter at hand? What's wrong with experimenting without constantly showing to others your failures. The only reason I can think of is to alert them that there's still someone interested in the die and that it isn't dead. That can be said in words, then, from time to time without showing the failed attempts in. Ida and so on. Otherwise you're just fueling the negativism of the partial critics. That serves no purpose in the pursuit for OU.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 07, 2010, 06:19:27 PM
I think one should post careful analytical results proving this is OU or if a device is to be posted then it should necessarily be OU. Repeating over and over again variations of Milkovic's device brings no advance.

There were several papers written with some attempts of tom solve the differential equations describing the system eve prior to it being self-sustaining. These should be continued. I think a couple of Serbian authors did that, other than Milkovic. As far as a constructed device goes, it make sense to publish only a self-sustaining one, as I already said. Do as much work as you wand, try all kinds of variants but why publish it if it isn't advancing the matter at hand? What's wrong with experimenting without constantly showing to others your failures. The only reason I can think of is to alert them that there's still someone interested in the die and that it isn't dead. That can be said in words, then, from time to time without showing the failed attempts in. Ida and so on. Otherwise you're just fueling the negativism of the partial critics. That serves no purpose in the pursuit for OU.

I agree with that. That is exactly what I am doing. Testing this and that but no real progress found as yet. I am convinced that to arrive at a OU device has a difficult learning curve.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on September 07, 2010, 06:23:35 PM
Indeed, it's a very difficult engineering problem which shouldn't be taken lightly as if it's something insubstantial which we can play around with and make irresponsible videos just for fun. This is a serious business and what looks like fun is taken very seriously by those who want to destroy the OU research and falls right in their hands of destruction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on September 18, 2010, 04:22:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gSokCcsu7s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gSokCcsu7s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiLLlFYOv18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiLLlFYOv18)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D73mcdvhyZA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D73mcdvhyZA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU) Milkovic's Pendulum Replica video 10 (KG 1340 PENDULUM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MzYmRFjog&feature=related

This is absolute proof - over unity!
Lever has equal arms, and it is independent replica. Try to take a hammer, from the example of 20 kg, and you'll see how much you can do.
It should be noted that this is initial experiment, improvised in order to collect basic data.
And, of course, they will continue

more on... http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/indexEng.htm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 18, 2010, 06:05:21 PM
I hope you are kidding.

All those vids prove the same, that no excess energy is produced, nor extracted.

A bigger device doesn't make the claims any more valid.
Not a single gram of weight was lifted as much as one mm over the course of minutes of penduling. All weights quickly came to rest as they had started.
Useful work = mass * distance, right? No distance was overcome, by any amount of weight.

Put a steel ball in a steady bowl. Tap it. See it gain height, as long as you time the tap well. Stop tapping, and see it come to rest where it started. Same idea. Nice show, but no energy extracted, AT ALL. The energy put in is therefore quite substantial.
An independent replication, sure. But without added proof of the bold claims from the Milkovic camp.

Please put your engineering talent and Free Energy intentions to a new design.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on September 19, 2010, 05:59:39 PM
It is obvious that teams from Italy, done only a preliminary investigation. But, all in order to gain first impressions, because they have not dealt with this issue. Better results are expected in the future. What is obvious is that over unity is achieved and cant be expressed in numbers because they didnt  measured.
It took over 100 years to accept evidence of free fall and 50 years to accept the law of conservation of energy. I hope that we will accept this for few years...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on September 19, 2010, 06:04:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU
over unity sure!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 20, 2010, 11:16:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU
over unity sure!

I also spoke at first in my IPMM OU trial searches of overunity when I witnessed magnetic reaction force resulting in spin and pulses won from a magnetic rotor approached by a neodynium rod magnet in my hand. But the actual proof that it is really OU is not as easy to achieve. We have a conviction here, not experimental proof. If we see a flying saucer moving against the laws of aerodynamics e.g. we are convinced that we can move around space (or warp time) in stead of air. That is a conviction, but not proof from controlled tests of our own. With this it is the same: we see the Milkovic two phase response happening, but no way is proven that the energy output here is greater than the input. Only a self-sustaining mechanical loop does that, irrespective of what Marjanovic e.g. theoretically defends about it. That is what it is all about here in this thread.

compare: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4449.new.html#new
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on September 20, 2010, 03:00:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU
over unity sure!

Sure, sure...  ;D

BTW, the video is showing the most inefficient "OU" device I managed to see over the last few years...

AAaah.....I mean, really?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 21, 2010, 12:47:01 AM
Sure??

I can make a device from a few elastics bands and random weights and rods which will move much more unpredictably, for a longer period of time, and it onl needs a tap of my finger to set it off. Yet, it will not be OU either.
There is so much we could calculate. But only the one interpreting the data can make the righ tor wrong assumption.
We as human used to think human eyes were the lights that made things visible. For when they were closed, we could not see further than the insides of our eye lids.
And we believed the earth was flat and quite huge, because hoever far we'd dare to travel, we'd never roll of drift off it.

Is the Milkovic camp delisional, or disinfo agents? Or perhaps, they are holding back their best (and only significant) work?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on September 21, 2010, 11:59:24 AM
Its quite clear that the pendulum is independent from the lever, it retains the power of free movement so the pendulum can effect the lever (causing it to move) while at the same time retaining its own swing. Therefore the movement of the lever is an energy addition inherient to the pendulum. When stopping the output/lever the input/pendulum is not reduced, so why not connect the output/lever to the input/pendulum causing it to perpetuate? The additional energy inherient from the pendulum is more than enough to keep the pendulum going. I am building the device then adding a very simple mechanism to "connect" the output to the input. The synchronization of the output and input seem quite simple. Once built and tested, ill post results...

Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 22, 2010, 04:05:10 AM
RHead is on the road again!

UpDate on escapement that works for 2 stage oscillator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu3cy9MyzFI

Size , Shape , AND Weight of pendulum Does matter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-rjJbTs200
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 22, 2010, 09:31:46 AM
Its quite clear that the pendulum is independent from the lever, it retains the power of free movement so the pendulum can effect the lever (causing it to move) while at the same time retaining its own swing. Therefore the movement of the lever is an energy addition inherient to the pendulum. When stopping the output/lever the input/pendulum is not reduced, so why not connect the output/lever to the input/pendulum causing it to perpetuate? The additional energy inherient from the pendulum is more than enough to keep the pendulum going. I am building the device then adding a very simple mechanism to "connect" the output to the input. The synchronization of the output and input seem quite simple. Once built and tested, ill post results...

Alex

Not quite independent... Clearly the lever is energized by the pendulum and thus takes energy from it. Even though the pendulum movement seems to be unhindered by it, the pendulum will, logically spoken - and this I also noticed in my tests -, swing less, that is shorter, when the lever is allowed to move along. This you can test. If positive to you as well, - mind e.g. the position of the pivot point, high or low - that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be any gain in efficiency of transmitting pulses this way. But the OU claim still needs to be proven by experiment before we can confirm that we have gold in our hands here. So indeed go ahead and build a loop. But we mustn't confuse efficiency gain with energy gain. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Hoxan on September 22, 2010, 10:22:34 AM
Not quite independent... Clearly the lever is energized by the pendulum and thus takes energy from it. Even though the pendulum movement seems to be unhindered by it, the pendulum will, logically spoken - and this I also noticed in my tests -, swing less, that is shorter, when the lever is allowed to move along. This you can test. If positive to you as well, - mind e.g. the position of the pivot point, high or low - that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be any gain in efficiency of transmitting pulses this way. But the OU claim still needs to be proven by experiment before we can confirm that we have gold in our hands here. So indeed go ahead and build a loop. But we mustn't confuse efficiency gain with energy gain.

Everything you said is correct. Lever is taking some energy from pendulum. Part of that energy is used on working side of lever, another part is bounced back to pendulum. Easiest test to prove pendulum energy loss on lever is by fixing lever so it cant move. Pendulum will swing very long because pendulum is loosing energy only in frictions (bearings, air, etc.).

Energy cant be created nor destroyed and there is no perpetuum mobile (not proven yet and i don't have interest in doing so). My goal is to use small energy to channel large energy, its like martial arts. Using small energy to overcome energy barrier so we can manage flux of gravity field, extracting large energy.

P.S.
Guys from Texas with 1340kg pendulum don't even get milkovics movements. Take look at lever ratio, frequency of pendulum & working mass. They put in a lot of effort and money in but i don't see anything what milkovic describes. For me, waste of resources, too bad.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 22, 2010, 10:40:34 AM
Guys from Texas with 1340kg pendulum don't even get milkovics movements. Take look at lever ratio, frequency of pendulum & working mass. They put in a lot of effort and money in but i don't see anything what milkovic describes. For me, waste of resources, too bad.

there is a lot of waste of resources and energy here !
 
for sure not OU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 22, 2010, 10:41:27 AM
Everything you said is correct. Lever is taking some energy from pendulum. Part of that energy is used on working side of lever, another part is bounced back to pendulum. Easiest test to prove pendulum energy loss on lever is by fixing lever so it cant move. Pendulum will swing very long because pendulum is loosing energy only in frictions (bearings, air, etc.).

Energy cant be created nor destroyed and there is no perpetuum mobile (not proven yet and i don't have interest in doing so). My goal is to use small energy to channel large energy, its like martial arts. Using small energy to overcome energy barrier so we can manage flux of gravity field, extracting large energy.

P.S.
Guys from Texas with 1340kg pendulum don't even get milkovics movements. Take look at lever ratio, frequency of pendulum & working mass. They put in a lot of effort and money in but i don't see anything what milkovic describes. For me, waste of resources, too bad.

There is still Reidar Finsrud with his claim of a working perpetuum mobile machine working since 1996 you know. The thing does not deliver energy, but keeps running for over a decade by now. He also uses the inertial oscillation of a steel ball on a track and primary and even secondary pendulums. That he has in common with Milkovic.

See my vid on him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on September 22, 2010, 12:20:03 PM
AnandAadhar

Thanks for the info, ill make it and check the results then try to loop it together, i cant see why it cant work seen as its easy to keep the pendulum swinging so the force from the lever sustains it??

Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 22, 2010, 05:03:13 PM
AnandAadhar

Thanks for the info, ill make it and check the results then try to loop it together, i cant see why it cant work seen as its easy to keep the pendulum swinging so the force from the lever sustains it??

Alex

Read this paper
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on September 22, 2010, 11:52:34 PM
Quite an interesting read Merg, The swinging of the pendulum is effected by the movement of the lever. However, I like to hope that, the energy supplied by the lever will be enough to keep the pendulum going if timed correctly. If I am wrong, (which wont be a first) then maybe a different approach may prove positive? Who knows, ill test the thing any old how.

Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 23, 2010, 02:29:57 AM
RHEAD re-uploaded his video

UpDate on escapement that works for 2 stage oscillator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol4jU7e910Y
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nievesoliveras on September 23, 2010, 02:45:42 PM
@readhead

Maybe this is what you are looking for.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 23, 2010, 11:35:30 PM
Some new pendulum video

Milkovic`s com dois pêndulos opostos e defasados em 90 graus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mCUgx-3SPo

Here is something (un)related, but it looks nice

Free Energy Gravity Wheel P2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoJx6BcAnas

Free Energy Gravity Wheel TX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11SrQRH7qbw

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 25, 2010, 11:37:59 PM
Milkovic´s com 4 pêndulos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDG8GYHFFJc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on September 26, 2010, 12:21:04 AM
A swing is a swing, it does not matter if it swings 10 feet or 5 feet. A swing is easy to sustain once its swinging no matter what distance it swings. Therefore, in the two stage oscillator, SOME of the energy is indeed extracted from the swing into the lever, causing the swing to of slightly decreased, but its still a swing. Over all, there is no increase in energy, but like I said above, so long as its still swinging, it remains easy to sustain, so therefore, the energy extracted from the swing into the lever can then be put into the now slightly reduced swinging pendulum to sustain its swing. Because it retains the power of free movement, you can subtract a certain amount of energy from the pendulum, then put it back into the pendulum just to sustain it. You could probably even increase the pendulums swing through its own swinging. You can probably control if the pendulum is caused to just sustain its current swing or increase via the difference or distance between the two weights.

Because the lever does cause the pendulum to stop swinging earlier than just a single pendulum, it may indeed take slightly more energy to sustain its swing but the energy from the lever should be more than enough evidently from the videos i have seen.

P.S To put it simply, a swinging pendulum that has a swing span of 10 feet is more than enough to sustain itself if, through energy extraction, its swing is reduced to a 5 feet span.

Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 26, 2010, 09:31:35 AM
A swing is a swing, it does not matter if it swings 10 feet or 5 feet. A swing is easy to sustain once its swinging no matter what distance it swings. Therefore, in the two stage oscillator, SOME of the energy is indeed extracted from the swing into the lever, causing the swing to of slightly decreased, but its still a swing. Over all, there is no increase in energy, but like I said above, so long as its still swinging, it remains easy to sustain, so therefore, the energy extracted from the swing into the lever can then be put into the now slightly reduced swinging pendulum to sustain its swing. Because it retains the power of free movement, you can subtract a certain amount of energy from the pendulum, then put it back into the pendulum just to sustain it. You could probably even increase the pendulums swing through its own swinging. You can probably control if the pendulum is caused to just sustain its current swing or increase via the difference or distance between the two weights.

Because the lever does cause the pendulum to stop swinging earlier than just a single pendulum, it may indeed take slightly more energy to sustain its swing but the energy from the lever should be more than enough evidently from the videos i have seen.

P.S To put it simply, a swinging pendulum that has a swing span of 10 feet is more than enough to sustain itself if, through energy extraction, its swing is reduced to a 5 feet span.

Alex

With every swing you extract energy from the swing and thus reduce the span each time, thus not once. As you said, no energy is won this way. No OU from just a mecahnical feedback on a normal pendulum. Apparently more is needed to rectify gravity. The two stage Milkovic claim of amplification of the input pulse is by experiment not yet proven as defeating this logic. Talk is useless, we need experimental proof.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on September 26, 2010, 02:14:04 PM
Yeah, I realize that the swing is constantly being reduced, but the output from the lever must be enough to sustain the swing. I'm on a build at the moment to loop the output back into the pendulum. If it fails then there must be something quite interesting to learn from this. The free movement of the pendulum is an important idea in the search for perpetual motion i am sure because Bessler talks about "retaining the power of free movement" which to me means that, the POWER of FREE MOVEMENT is like a pendulum on the two stage oscillator, it swings with its own power even though its got a kind of load on it and it is therefore easy to sustain the swing.

Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 26, 2010, 04:27:06 PM
Yeah, I realize that the swing is constantly being reduced, but the output from the lever must be enough to sustain the swing. I'm on a build at the moment to loop the output back into the pendulum. If it fails then there must be something quite interesting to learn from this. The free movement of the pendulum is an important idea in the search for perpetual motion i am sure because Bessler talks about "retaining the power of free movement" which to me means that, the POWER of FREE MOVEMENT is like a pendulum on the two stage oscillator, it swings with its own power even though its got a kind of load on it and it is therefore easy to sustain the swing.

Alex

Before you try to construct something you must also try to tell where that extra energy would come from.... the output lever moves because of the pendulum transferring a part of its energy plus the energy that was triggered by it from an unknown source you somehow have to address logically. It must be space energy somehow, but how did you address it? By the lever moving the pivot point alone? Suppose you succeed, then what is your explanation? The pulse transferred to the lever was amplified by what?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on September 28, 2010, 12:52:59 AM
Before you try to construct something you must also try to tell where that extra energy would come from.... the output lever moves because of the pendulum transferring a part of its energy plus the energy that was triggered by it from an unknown source you somehow have to address logically. It must be space energy somehow, but how did you address it? By the lever moving the pivot point alone? Suppose you succeed, then what is your explanation? The pulse transferred to the lever was amplified by what?

Well, supposing, because the lever is weighted at the end, you extract the energy close to the pivot point of that lever so to get a kind of leverage in order to sustain the pendulum?

P.S Would it be a good idea to post a picture of my simple idea before I finish the build or would that be a bit risky in case the thing worked?


Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 28, 2010, 10:18:51 AM
Well, supposing, because the lever is weighted at the end, you extract the energy close to the pivot point of that lever so to get a kind of leverage in order to sustain the pendulum?

P.S Would it be a good idea to post a picture of my simple idea before I finish the build or would that be a bit risky in case the thing worked?


Alex

The basic idea here is to extract energy from a pendulum. Clock makers are pretty good at engaging pendulums in a mechanical set up, but use it only for attaining regularity with an escapement. Our purpose here is different, but we can learn from them how to engage a pendulum in a mechanical setup. I myself manage to make a magnetic rotor spin by the passage of the pendulum - connected to a stator magnet - running linearly over it. The rotor again - if maintained spinning at the same rate - keeps the pendulum moving by its back emf. Thus we have an excellent forward/backward connection with anything connected to that rotor and the movement of the pendulum. This is the pendulum lead out as I found most efficient. But you can use it also as a lead in as said. A mechanical connection to the pendulum with a slipping link like a wheel on a ramp or a certain ball bearing setup with leverage also works fine.  Remember there is a complication in the build because the pendulum itself has vertical movement in the Milkovic design. A lead out close to the pivot point or via the axle, and a lead in at the end (pulsed at the highest rise). Thus you can have a good lead out and lead in of a pendulum. The question is, where in our looping the system for OU does the amplification take place that defeats the second law of thermodynamics? Where and how is the entropy overcome and the negentropy taking place of rectifying space energy or gravity? Evidently it is a source of tension or expansion in the circuit. Would it be with the two stage Milkovic set-up, or is the secret hiding elsewhere that escapes our experimentation as yet? I think of some inertial oscillator or dynamic lever mediating the dynamics of magnetism and gravity (frequency and amplitude) in my setup. Yes, show your design or schematic - energy flow diagram - before you build. Nobody knows for sure whether it will work or not if it is an intelligent design. You will be the first to know. Think before you act. Two know more than one. Want to see mine? I am determined and unafraid to tell you whether it works or not. Science obliges, but can you bare the uncertainty of the method? I keep it away from the audience as yet because of this.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on September 28, 2010, 03:26:56 PM
Ok here is the idea, if its condemned then I shall continue with building it and see the results for myself. I would appreciate as much advice and information you could give me about my idea if you please...

Read the following after looking at the diagram below.

Because the string is further from the pivot of the lever than it is from the pivot of the pendulum, there will be a pull from the lever. The length of the string determines if the pull is in sync or not. The correct length is important so that as the pendulum has swung in, the string becomes tensed in order to achieve a pull at the correct time. To ensure that weight "A" drops at the correct time, weight "A" must have a certain weight value in caparison to weight "B". A second pulley MAY be needed to the left of the shown pulley so the string gets the correct length of pull. Of course, the swing of the pendulum would probably require a greater span than shown.

Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 29, 2010, 04:09:44 PM
Ok here is the idea, if its condemned then I shall continue with building it and see the results for myself. I would appreciate as much advice and information you could give me about my idea if you please...

Read the following after looking at the diagram below.

Because the string is further from the pivot of the lever than it is from the pivot of the pendulum, there will be a pull from the lever. The length of the string determines if the pull is in sync or not. The correct length is important so that as the pendulum has swung in, the string becomes tensed in order to achieve a pull at the correct time. To ensure that weight "A" drops at the correct time, weight "A" must have a certain weight value in caparison to weight "B". A second pulley MAY be needed to the left of the shown pulley so the string gets the correct length of pull. Of course, the swing of the pendulum would probably require a greater span than shown.

Alex

Were is your input and where is the output? As you show me nothing will happen however careful you balance the lever, the weight and string attachment. Without the string you have the Milkovic effect just pushing the pendulum at B. The string simply limits the movement of the pendulum not to pass beyond the point indicated in the drawing. It will not swing properly. Or else move as a fixed whole if properly balanced. That is useless. You'll find no two phase effect or even an one phase effect as claimed by Milkovic. Without the string though A will respond with a two step reaction with each extreme of the pendulum swinging to the right and left of the pivot point at the right. The string is not needed. A must weigh down relative to the other side, but not more than needed. First try to replicate the Milkovic effect, then elaborate on that I'd say.
Title: .
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 29, 2010, 04:11:04 PM
    .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nievesoliveras on September 29, 2010, 09:13:43 PM
Maybe adding a spring to the string will help produce what you desire.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Alexioco on September 29, 2010, 11:58:33 PM
could do. What I was hoping for was that after the pendulum has swung and lifted up the lever, the lever then drops pulling the pendulum, and if the pull is just right, the pendulum wont want to increase its swing therefore the pendulum will swing correctly. You must have a better reason than that for its fail surly

Alex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: nievesoliveras on September 30, 2010, 12:13:54 AM
This one is very old but can give you a good idea.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 30, 2010, 12:43:52 AM
This is very interesting!

Who did say these guys are getting no results??
Probably they accomplished the first step with this pendulum drive device.

Milkovic's Pendulum Replica with automatic pendulum oscillation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I

more videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdrImQK5xkE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUTUjdO_rvk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on September 30, 2010, 07:00:52 AM
This is very interesting!

Who did say these guys are getting no results??
Probably they accomplished the first step with this pendulum drive device.

Milkovic's Pendulum Replica with automatic pendulum oscillation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I)

more videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdrImQK5xkE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdrImQK5xkE)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUTUjdO_rvk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUTUjdO_rvk)

 
very good work
 
we hope that he can loop very soon
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on September 30, 2010, 09:06:55 AM

If there is OU in Milkovic's pendulum (which is far from being proved), where the energy comes from?
If we accept the hazy hypothesis that gravity is the source, then what is depleted in gravity? From Newton's equation, g= G*M/d² where at the earth surface, M is the earth mass and d its radius. Does the earth mass would decrease each time a Milkovic's pendulum does work?!


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 30, 2010, 10:46:49 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I)


WOW!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 30, 2010, 01:26:08 PM
If there is OU in Milkovic's pendulum (which is far from being proved), where the energy comes from?
If we accept the hazy hypothesis that gravity is the source, then what is depleted in gravity? From Newton's equation, g= G*M/d² where at the earth surface, M is the earth mass and d its radius. Does the earth mass would decrease each time a Milkovic's pendulum does work?!

Of course not. if that happens the acceleration is taken out of gravity. According Einstein's theory of gravity, gravity equals the acceleration of a rocket. It is called the equivalence principle. So what happens is that with production of OU energy this way, gravity is consumed. The machine will float like a flying saucer if the process is upgraded. Good huh? But that's not Newton anymore of course.
For you can also think of gravity in quantum mechanical terms, as a stream of gravitons or 'space particles', or quantum foam bubbles, rushing towards the planetary center. Gravity as a form of spacetime pressure. Such an experimental finding would prove quantum gravity and give us time travel! A unit of space equates to the duality of universal time expanding and time contracting according to other modern ether theories.... Time is thus addressed too, not just gravity. Man, we would have warp drive in a decade if that experiment succeeds (leaving the Milkovic' version of the machine at home of course for being a primitive precursor in proving the apparently missing laws of the energy of time and gravity in Maxwell's equations).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 03, 2010, 08:31:46 AM
look at this video
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Yd71fzlB4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Yd71fzlB4&feature=related)
 
this is a double pendulum , but no OU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 03, 2010, 05:49:04 PM
look at this video
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Yd71fzlB4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Yd71fzlB4&feature=related)
 
this is a double pendulum , but no OU

That's a remarkable study. The way it sustains its action without having had a real push. Just the fall from its loaded position.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 03, 2010, 07:09:25 PM
preparation for making a pendulum pump?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd__X6-NVCg

"tsmo ver.4.1 working on adding flywheels to replace springs next then new air /water pump. Still experimenting with pendulum weight and length, lever ratio, and spring placements. present water pump is made from allthread(shaft), fender washers(piston), pvc body, and 4 chk valves.Does not wok to well, 6 to 9 liters per min. I need a better construction ---working on simple diapragh pump."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: exnihiloest on October 04, 2010, 10:47:59 AM
Of course not. if that happens the acceleration is taken out of gravity. According Einstein's theory of gravity, gravity equals the acceleration of a rocket. It is called the equivalence principle. So what happens is that with production of OU energy this way, gravity is consumed. The machine will float like a flying saucer if the process is upgraded. Good huh? But that's not Newton anymore of course.
...

Yes "Gravity is consumed" is a nonsense. From my viewpoint if gravity was consumed, mass would be consumed because gravity is linked to mass. But we have no fact supporting nuclear reactions in Milkovic's pendulum.
GR equations just provide tensors that allow to correct the space-time geometry in order to treat physics problems in referential submitted to acceleration or gravity as if they were locally inertial. GR is fully compatible with energy conservation.

Quote
For you can also think of gravity in quantum mechanical terms...

We can't because quantum gravity is what all physicists are searching for for years but they did not yet succeed in a quantum gravity theory.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on October 04, 2010, 11:13:37 AM
Quote
GR equations just provide tensors that allow to correct the space-time geometry in order to treat physics problems in referential submitted to acceleration or gravity as if they were locally inertial. GR is fully compatible with energy conservation.

You have absolutely no clue. You don't know what you're talking about and are just filling this forum with gibberish. Stop clogging the forum with nonsense by filling it with pretentious science talk you don't know anything about. Opportunism such as yours cannot substitute for knowledge and understanding.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 04, 2010, 02:13:24 PM
You have absolutely no clue. You don't know what you're talking about and are just filling this forum with gibberish. Stop clogging the forum with nonsense by filling it with pretentious science talk you don't know anything about. Opportunism such as yours cannot substitute for knowledge and understanding.

Thanks, I agree.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 05, 2010, 02:27:58 AM
It is a pump definitely
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiCRSmLDqFo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on October 10, 2010, 01:14:10 PM
I have not been over here in a long time, so I don't know if this was ever posted, but I just found this video that proves the point of my Phun videos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTLh_vYBpd4&sns=em

Enjoy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 10, 2010, 02:24:54 PM
I have not been over here in a long time, so I don't know if this was ever posted, but I just found this video that proves the point of my Phun videos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTLh_vYBpd4&sns=em

Enjoy.

Connect something to the vibrating end and let it do work and then compare that to the work needed for the  rotor.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 11, 2010, 12:53:44 AM
...from veljkomilkovic.com e-newsletter:

Jovan Marjanovic -- Angular Momentum, Parametric Oscillator and Over Unity

The goal of this work is to present mathematical and experimental proof of getting energy surplus or over-unity energy out of gravitational field by using pendulum as parametric oscillator.
In this work author definitely proved that the law of conservation of energy is not valid where the law of conservation of angular momentum was valid.

In this work the author will discuss:

- the law of conservation of angular momentum,
- principle of getting energy surplus out of pendulum which works as parametric oscillator,
- angular momentum and conflict with the law of conservation of total energy in orbits  of central forces (gravitational, electrostatic, etc.),
- angular momentum and corruption of centrifugal force,
- experimental proof of increasing potential and kinetic energy in the same time when the law of conservation of angular momentum is valid.

Key words: angular momentum, total energy, over-unity, parametric oscillator.
 
The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 253KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Angular_Momentum_and_Overunity.pdf

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on October 11, 2010, 01:29:02 PM
OVER-UNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Bl9Ld4310


ENJOY!!!!!

I will eventually post my Phun file here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 11, 2010, 02:59:12 PM
OVER-UNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Bl9Ld4310 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Bl9Ld4310)


ENJOY!!!!!

I will eventually post my Phun file here.

we are waiting for a real replication of this sim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 11, 2010, 05:31:28 PM
twostage mechanical oscillator w/ flywheel(1 of 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF-opGfPlI0

Two Stage mechanical oscillator w 2 flywheels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMI55x2HHk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on October 11, 2010, 06:35:09 PM
twostage mechanical oscillator w/ flywheel(1 of 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF-opGfPlI0

Two Stage mechanical oscillator w 2 flywheels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMI55x2HHk
There should be an electrical circuit which is analogous to this setup.

What is that electrical circuit?
How can that electrical circuit be adjusted to resonance?
how can the mechanical setup to adjusted to be analogous to it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 13, 2010, 02:42:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dSTxUWttfY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTz-6_4jIU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuAQiTGYW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBNWOxY4c7w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp6wU5liK-0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 13, 2010, 04:37:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dSTxUWttfY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dSTxUWttfY)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTz-6_4jIU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTz-6_4jIU)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuAQiTGYW0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuAQiTGYW0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBNWOxY4c7w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBNWOxY4c7w)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp6wU5liK-0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp6wU5liK-0)

 
you need to learn the Botafumeiro
 
http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Botafumeiro/1 (http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Botafumeiro/1)
 
 
http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html (http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html)
 
there is a lot of simulation on the net
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on October 14, 2010, 01:33:42 AM
I here by call out to every replicator interested in the two stage oscillation process to examine this video and work on a real device utilizing the very simple processes that I've explained in this video.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaQ7H0UKF94 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaQ7H0UKF94)

I myself will be working on a real one to show off.

In the mean time... here is the original bouncer:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTLh_vYBpd4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTLh_vYBpd4)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 14, 2010, 08:45:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dSTxUWttfY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTz-6_4jIU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuAQiTGYW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBNWOxY4c7w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp6wU5liK-0


Okay, you manage to spin a wheel with the oscillator, congratulated, but is the energy of the wheel sufficient to keep the pendulum going? Where is the loop in this? Where do you try to feed back that energy? That is what we want to now out here at this overunity forum. is this an overunity thing or not?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 14, 2010, 08:53:32 AM
Okay, you manage to spin a wheel with the oscillator, congratulated, but is the energy of the wheel sufficient to keep the pendulum going? Where is the loop in this? Where do you try to feed back that energy? That is what we want to now out here at this overunity forum. is this an overunity thing or not?

okay
 
I think that "12 times more output than input" is not possible with a pendulum and gravity
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 14, 2010, 09:16:00 AM
I here by call out to every replicator interested in the two stage oscillation process to examine this video and work on a real device utilizing the very simple processes that I've explained in this video.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaQ7H0UKF94 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaQ7H0UKF94)

I myself will be working on a real one to show off.

In the mean time... here is the original bouncer:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTLh_vYBpd4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTLh_vYBpd4)

The problem is in creating the loop from the bouncer. Calculations of overunity are all fine as long as the excess energy can run the motor that drives the bouncer. But we haven't seen such a construction as yet. So what can we replicate? Your software offers a design of little practical value in my view.  No engineer will connect the bouncer to a cogwheel as primitive and inefficient as you suggest. The above suggestion of connecting the bouncer to a bicycle wheel gear box seems much better. You ask for replication of your design, but the only real thing to replicate is that bouncer of the realtime vid that for lacking a loop or real time power measurement has not proven to deliver more energy than it takes as yet. You make a nice guess with your software, but offer a replication of the bouncer, that is all. But we don't replicate designs that are replications or copy theories for that matter, we replicate applications that supposedly work. A (software) design is just a theory, the actual proof is in the application. So I'd say, as you promise indeed,  start tinkering yourself with a proper feedback system or a power in/out difference of measurement on that bouncer of yours until you have something real that works and then ask for replication.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 14, 2010, 09:19:31 AM

okay
 
I think that "12 times more output than input" is not possible with a pendulum and gravity

Well I don't think anything because I don't know. People can claim all sorts of things, but you simply have to try until it works as claimed or else conclude that the claim is false. Just thinking so doesn't help at all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on October 14, 2010, 03:36:12 PM
The problem is in creating the loop from the bouncer. Calculations of overunity are all fine as long as the excess energy can run the motor that drives the bouncer. But we haven't seen such a construction as yet. So what can we replicate? Your software offers a design of little practical value in my view.  No engineer will connect the bouncer to a cogwheel as primitive and inefficient as you suggest. The above suggestion of connecting the bouncer to a bicycle wheel gear box seems much better. You ask for replication of your design, but the only real thing to replicate is that bouncer of the realtime vid that for lacking a loop or real time power measurement has not proven to deliver more energy than it takes as yet. You make a nice guess with your software, but offer a replication of the bouncer, that is all. But we don't replicate designs that are replications or copy theories for that matter, we replicate applications that supposedly work. A (software) design is just a theory, the actual proof is in the application. So I'd say, as you promise indeed,  start tinkering yourself with a proper feedback system or a power in/out difference of measurement on that bouncer of yours until you have something real that works and then ask for replication.

Let me re-frase that then... Don't replicate this system... Be creative! Examine the thing and figure out how to apply the principal to some application, whether its a better way to spin a bicycle wheel or to grind Orio cookies or even to feedback loop the thing so that it explodes. I don't care... Just do something!!!


There is that better.  ;D

P.S.  This topic is about energy in versus energy out, not Feedback loops.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 14, 2010, 06:26:04 PM
Let me re-frase that then... Don't replicate this system... Be creative! Examine the thing and figure out how to apply the principal to some application, whether its a better way to spin a bicycle wheel or to grind Orio cookies or even to feedback loop the thing so that it explodes. I don't care... Just do something!!!


There is that better.  ;D

P.S.  This topic is about energy in versus energy out, not Feedback loops.
yah okay I'm on a yearlong project engaging a pendulum my own way. See My IPMM studies. Concrete results I will report here and discuss there.    See http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4449.new.html#top
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on October 14, 2010, 06:29:43 PM
Let me re-frase that then... Don't replicate this system... Be creative!
There are two different approaches:
1. Replicating the work of another to verify
2. Being creative

They should not be muddled up and both have value.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on October 15, 2010, 07:45:08 AM
There are two different approaches:
1. Replicating the work of another to verify
2. Being creative

They should not be muddled up and both have value.

Quite to the contrary, I firmly believe that the work of replication most often requires a high degree of creativity. For the attempts made to replicate many devices (especially certain devises described on this web site under a claim of functionality) are done so with a lack of precise descriptions, dimensions or components. It must therefore be the obligation of any would be replicator to not only go by exacting descriptions of a device that is in the know, but to pull from every angle of his/her own creativity and knowledge of working concepts to discover and disclose any device not in the know.  Beyond this, if a creative replicator has the ability to visionally see into a thing and its inner workings and then envision a better way for said thing to work, is it not better that he incorporate these improvements with full disclosure for the benefit of all, including the next would be replicator.

Is this not similar to the way that open source software is improved?

Could we ever have EVOLVED without this process? (If evolution is your belief)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 15, 2010, 10:33:25 AM
Quite to the contrary, I firmly believe that the work of replication most often requires a high degree of creativity. For the attempts made to replicate many devices (especially certain devises described on this web site under a claim of functionality) are done so with a lack of precise descriptions, dimensions or components. It must therefore be the obligation of any would be replicator to not only go by exacting descriptions of a device that is in the know, but to pull from every angle of his/her own creativity and knowledge of working concepts to discover and disclose any device not in the know.  Beyond this, if a creative replicator has the ability to visionally see into a thing and its inner workings and then envision a better way for said thing to work, is it not better that he incorporate these improvements with full disclosure for the benefit of all, including the next would be replicator.

Is this not similar to the way that open source software is improved?

Could we ever have EVOLVED without this process? (If evolution is your belief)

Replication indeed often involves creativity and ingenuity. For instance: one to one replication of the Finsrud device - also a pendulum study by the way - is next to impossible, but you can make creatively an adaptation that is in line with his principles. But that implies an improvement upon some of his elements of construction. That thus in being creative also requires ingenuity, for you can only replicate if you improve in his case. 'Boldly go where none went before' stays a golden oldie in this business, even replicating....

My Finsrud study: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 21, 2010, 04:25:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii_HAusOf1A
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on October 22, 2010, 09:24:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii_HAusOf1A

Does it swing longer with or without the wheel connected?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 08, 2010, 12:59:39 AM
something new from YouTube:

2 Stage Oscillator Success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbC7nil0eas
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on November 08, 2010, 12:32:32 PM
something new from YouTube:

2 Stage Oscillator Success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbC7nil0eas

Success?

The "physics & math" presented in that YT video are severely flawed..



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on November 08, 2010, 01:20:09 PM
Success?

The "physics & math" presented in that YT video are severely flawed..
Please will explain.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on November 08, 2010, 02:59:14 PM
Please will explain.

No, I leave that to you.
Have some fun!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AnandAadhar on November 08, 2010, 03:26:11 PM
something new from YouTube:

2 Stage Oscillator Success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbC7nil0eas


The right side of the pendulum needs to be shorter, then there will be a far more regular bounce effect on the left.  See the Milkovic videos. Also the position of the pivot point is of influence, below the pivot there will be a two stage effect above a one stage effect. But the energy of the bounce remains a reduction of the energy at the right. The pendulum will swing less thus inevitably. Energy is transferred from the right to the left, despite of the free swing on the right. No overunity will be found by a gravity driven movement alone. One conservative force like gravity bent upon itself will reduce to nil, two forces put in opposition might do work though, so inertial oscillation combined with a magnetic rotor e.g. might prove a definition of space energy. Keep experimenting thus.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on November 09, 2010, 12:57:53 PM
No, I leave that to you.
Have some fun!
I ask you to explain - you refuse - many will conclude that you cannot.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on November 09, 2010, 11:11:06 PM
I ask you to explain - you refuse - many will conclude that you cannot.
Sure.
Btw, have you watched that video?

And???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on November 10, 2010, 12:55:13 PM
Sure.
Btw, have you watched that video?

And???
Its simple: put up or shut up.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 11, 2010, 01:41:16 AM
open letter from the author:

The Revision of Conservation of Energy Law or the Apocalips (pdf) - Academician Veljko Milkovic appeals in his open letter for considering new clean technologies in favour of protecting the planet Earth and our civilisation: Being a slave to the dogma that the state cannot be changed for better, is in favor of development old “dirty technologies”. Refusal of new ideas and slavery to arrogant science will not result in stagnation but in regression. (VeljkoMilkovic.com; November 09, 2010)

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_The_Revision_of_Conservation_of_Energy_Law_or_the_Apocalips.pdf

quote from peswiki.com
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on November 26, 2010, 01:11:20 PM
Think that this work
The Revision of Conservation of Energy Law or the Apocalips should be reviewed...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 26, 2010, 07:16:56 PM
Here are some new YouTube videos:

working out hang-ups New escapement for 2 stage oscillator by RHead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6nkuVP2MZo

tsmo4.4 w escapement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18dc8xhu8I

Bouncer Animation Render
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0WhAJ9tGoY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 28, 2010, 08:12:09 PM
New RHead's video

Double Becket & new pendulum for 2 stage oscillator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1BBLryiyZ8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on December 02, 2010, 04:57:48 PM

When we not slaves to dogma and malice, can realized that over unity has already been solved.
Video 6 and 7 (RHEAD)  show exactly. Everything else is a matter of development.

video 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8&feature=channel
video 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCkVmv4zizM&feature=channel
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 08, 2010, 04:04:58 AM
kinetic energy multiplier theory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIOBgaZXvUw

Ferruccio Beltramone pendolo con fantastico trigger IV parte 1 & 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5zDqLVq728

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caNCK7eQx_s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 08, 2010, 11:58:39 AM
Any chance of someone translating? Some of his other video's look pretty good too. Nevermind, he did it for me!  Just click the CC button on the bottom right for subtitles. This guy is pretty cool and you all should checkout his channel. It's the Italian version off overunity I guess. he told me he's glad to see people in the US are into this stuff too.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 09, 2010, 02:32:49 PM
Here is the schematics for his setup:
 FT III sheet with multidrive and selfrunning option is

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6266/ftriggerselfrunningmodi.jpg

 and

FT IV sheet is

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6554/fantasticotriggeriv.jpg
 
 
 Imagine one or two or even more of these on one of Milkovic's pendulum carts
Good luck!
 

 

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 11, 2010, 02:17:05 AM
new rhead youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qULXZ2eO94w
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on December 11, 2010, 10:32:38 PM
new rhead youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qULXZ2eO94w

Doh... A few more years of development, and they'll came out with a "A.D. 1462" tower clock escapement mechanism...

Why they don't use their time to play with their kids, or grandchildren, on a "seesaw"?
Or, they could ask somebody about the lever mechanics, and similar stuff...
And pendulums... The fringe science...

YT is just fantastic!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 12, 2010, 04:40:40 AM
Wow!
 I thought to myself that when I saw spinn's comment," Man ,that guy must be a genius! To be sure I went back and looked at some of spinns comments from other threads. I thought "Surely if he has all this time to critisize archaic things , like the two stage mechanical oscillator, he must be contributing vast amounts of knowledge and understanding here at overunity.com. So, being new around here, I decided to check it out. Let me tell you, I learned alot!  If Ray Head was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, I would still have more respect for him then i would of this spinn fellow. Obviously, from the way he talks, he has perfected Quantum physics! Well, maybe I'm exagerrating a little. the only thing that I learned here from this prick is something that he quoted that totally describes him.( I pasted it to make sure I got it right, I don't want him to call me on it)

 "Lol, how typical. The guy is so full of himself that he cannot even see his own faults..."
 
 Spinn why do you even bother with all your bs? Is your dick so little that you truly have nothing better to do then try to tell everybody how smart you are, and how wrong everybody else is? You should put  your talents to better use than to prove that your the biggest jerkoff around!
 
 

 Sincerley
Greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on December 12, 2010, 09:00:19 AM
Hey Shirley, if you're interested in dicks you should try some other forums.

Btw, what was your previous forum handle here?
Ah, never mind. Who cares.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 12, 2010, 11:46:58 AM
@spinn,
 What's wrong, You don't like it when someone tells you how it is? What I don't understand is why do you come to this forum? Obviously, you seem to be a knowlegdable person. But critisizing Ray's work? who are you trying to impress? Maybe Ray hasn' t proven overunity. I will say that Ray has proven something to me though, that he is A man with vision and integrity, not afraid to share his successes and failures. He provides inpiration to many, while you only seem to share your negativity.I didn't even like ray's stuff when I first saw it, but now I have much respect for him. He spent plenty of his time to help me with my project, and even sent me welding supplies without asking for so much as a penny! Ray is the type of person the free energy community needs, and for you to act like he's some kind of idiot, just shows your own ignorance. If you didn't spend all of the time you spend critisizing people and calling them retards, and had a better attitude, you would be a benefit to progress. But it seems like you just want to act like a spoiled teenager. Think about it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 12, 2010, 01:28:22 PM
don't forget to read up on spinn_mp's previous handle here @ overunity: spinner

here is a link to his posts under that username.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=profile;u=170;area=showposts;start=405

the more things change, the more they stay the same...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 18, 2010, 01:48:50 PM
...news from veljkomilkovic.com:

new article by Veljko Milkovic

Efficiency of Rotor with Eccentric Mass with Small or Greater Speeds
Because idea of eccentric rotor was accepted by great number of researchers in last years, we
are proposing following supplement: to reinvestigate horizontal rotation in cases of greater speeds as
well as usage of ceramic bearings...

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Efficiency_of_Rotor_with_Eccentric_Mass.pdf
Title: Balanced rotor oscillation
Post by: el-tigre on December 18, 2010, 11:19:05 PM
Interesting note by Milkovic.  To extend the idea, imagine a powered rotor affixed and inclined 60 degrees horizontally from the axis of the main arm of the mechanical oscillator. 

Affix two heavy masses to the rotor 180 degrees opposite each other.  Very little power will be required to drive the rotor because it is balanced across its own axis of rotation.  However, with each 1/2 rotation along the inclined plane, the rotor's center of gravity shifts forward and rearward providing the oscillation necessary to drive the main arm up and down. 

Obviously, a larger diameter rotor provides a greater amount of shift of the center of gravity.  Fine control of the main arm oscillation can be achieved by varying the speed of rotation and the entire machine operates independent of negative pendulum feedback issues.

Considerable power economy is achieved by driving a balanced rotor as opposed to an unbalanced rotor. Even a pulse motor could be used to drive this configuration potentially powered by a small generator charging a capacitor that fires once every rotation of the balanced rotor.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 18, 2010, 11:53:34 PM
It seems like you get more of a slingshot with the unbalanced rotor in a tsmo setup. Even at low rpms. checkout Mjones7947 bouncer. I'm not sure if you can get the same effect he does with a balanced rotor, but it would be interesting to see. On Phun a simulation would be easy, i'll have to check it out. That is just a simulation though, nothing like building one to find out.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 19, 2010, 12:45:43 AM
I think two rotors running in opposite directions on the setup your talking about might work very well.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on December 26, 2010, 06:17:58 PM
 This is great work, interesting notice -Efficiency of Rotor with Eccentric Mass with Small or Greater Speeds!
I would like to read more of your work!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on December 29, 2010, 10:17:37 PM
I don't get it. How can an eccentric rotor provide energy just by its rotation?

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 29, 2010, 11:03:53 PM
Check out these bouncer videos@
 
 http://www.youtube.com/user/mjones7947
 
 These will give you a better idea, Milkovik also explains it in some his videos. It has to do with conservation of angular momentum and elliptical orbits. Here is some more good reading;
 
http://www.enterprisemission.com/Von_Braun.htm
 
Hope this helps.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on December 30, 2010, 12:23:11 AM
Check out these bouncer videos@
 
 http://www.youtube.com/user/mjones7947
 
 These will give you a better idea, Milkovik also explains it in some his videos. It has to do with conservation of angular momentum and elliptical orbits. Here is some more good reading;
 
http://www.enterprisemission.com/Von_Braun.htm
 
Hope this helps.

Not clear at all what he's doing there, let alone why should there be an effect. He's driving the motor with external energy and is measuring the torque, is that it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mdlarouche on December 31, 2010, 04:46:15 AM
Ok this might be a little premature but here goes.

For any of you that are serious into researching the free energy ideas... and there are many out there. Some are scams some are viable ideas but have no attempts to provide details and are of no real value for those of us with aspirations of debunking/proving any of these ideas. Others are very good in the information they provide but sometimes are so complex that most of us can't begin to try and duplicate them for financial reasons as well as our own limits that each of us has as far as our ability to work with the scientific side of things... mainly math.

The ideas out there that can be duplicated easily and modified to obtain new data are great. The Milkovic device is just one of those device. Lots of information and a very simple device that anyone can duplicate and modify to throw in their own ideas.

For any of you out there that have read about the Bessler wheel... Bessler aka. Orffyreus... you will find that as much as could be done during the times to place some credibility for this device. It's too bad that Bessler wanted finacial gain for his device rather than just being open source for the benefit of mankind. One scientist of the times was allowed to view inside the Bessler wheel and his response was that it was so simple that an adolescent could build one.

That idea cries to the fact that maybe we are trying too hard to be too high tech when we really need to go back to basics. Many people make the most absurd comments about the laws of this and that and that it could not be true or that it is impossible.... based of course on the laws that they presume are correct.

Below is an example of just such a law as well as my personal view on why it is not correct.

For every action there is a an equal and opposite reaction!

My personal thought is that for every action there could be any number of reactions and those combined reactions are the net energy that comprises the universe. That energy does two things.

1. If uncontrolled... radiates out from its center point in all directions, or in some cases in a linear manner

2. if properly confined and directed to channel as much of the energy in a manner that allows work to be done.

We burn gasoline in an engine where it is confined and released in a manner that allows us to do work. The heat on the other hand... much of it is lost parasitically, as is vibration and sound.

The heat, the expansion of burned gasses, the vibrations, the sound are the reactions that are derived from burning a fuel and each in their own is not an equal reaction to the total energy released but when comprised as a whole they are the sum of the total energy potential from the initial action.

The key to energy sustainability lies in harnessing all the reactions in a more complete system or by lessening the energies in some reactions so that other reactions may be augmented.

Now that might be a little vague in some ways and certainly you can't prove it mathematically but it seems to me to be more realistic that Newtons Law as it is written.

Now with all that babbling out of the way I will tell you about what I am doing to further the cause of cheap energy. I have taken the principles in the Milkovic device and added a few of my own Ideas and worked with the ideas of keeping things as simple as possible.

I want to give all of you a description of what I have done to this point but if I were to describe it too much...you would completely figure it out... it is really that simple. Now I'm not going to be looking for money so I will not advertise this. When I prove in my testing that I have a self runner using gravity as the fuel I will apply for a patent simply to protect it from large corporate enterprise and government from shelving it. When that is done I will release it for everyone to see.

I will tell you this though!

My device is nearing completion of the construction side of things. The computer simulations and the math side of thing have been worked out and there does not appear to be anything negative. One thing that many who are working with the same concept are trying to come up with ideas on how to make a pendulum keep swinging. I looked at things a little different and thought that since a pendulum ultimately comes to a stop why try to keep it in motion permanently because in reality trying to impart the energy necessary to do that is rather difficult because if you try to connect something to do that then your pendulum is not simply a pendulum anymore, and by adding energy either directly or by striking something to input the necessary energy you have a situation where there are parasitic losses and unwanted vibrations. What I have done is stop the pendulum after one single back and forth stroke at the highest position it has reached minus the loss to friction during that stroke. Since the pendulum is the single most efficient machine that exists... All I have to do now is compensate for the losses to friction and force the stopped pendulum up to it's initial start position... Much like Milkovic does by pushing the pendulum with his hand to compensate for those losses. There is a feedback mechanism I have designed to do this and at this point I can't tell you this part. The other thing that I have done is make use of hydraulics to transfer the output of energy to another area that is necessary to keep the timing of things. If you could imagine a musician's metronome used to keep timing, that is what I have used although it is a variant of the metronome as we know it... A metronome triggered by hydraulic input which then triggers another event through a mechanical linkage. I'll bet that not many would think initially of a metronome as an inverted pendulum?

That is all I can say at this time as far as description goes. I am so sure of this device being 100 percent a self runner that is why I am tight lipped at this point. It is much like the Bessler wheel's description... so simple, almost anyone can build it.

I apologize beforehand for any of you out there that want to complain about the length of this and for those I'm sure that will have to comment about this whole thing contradicting my statement above about not making as much information available so people can work with it.

And to all of you out there that are doing your thing to find the answers the world needs... Keep it up!

I will keep you all informed as to when I am up and running...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sevich on December 31, 2010, 04:13:10 PM

 "It's too bad that Bessler wanted finacial gain for his device rather than just being open source
 for the benefit of mankind."

I assume you contribute your weekly/monthly wage to charity?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mdlarouche on December 31, 2010, 05:48:04 PM
"It's too bad that Bessler wanted finacial gain for his device rather than just being open source
 for the benefit of mankind."

I assume you contribute your weekly/monthly wage to charity?

Actually no I don't but I was a millionaire at eighteen and gave it all away to help those in need and also so I could just life the life of a simple man... not   putting myself above others. I spent five years living a zero carbon life to prove to others in my community that there are ways to live life and still have most of the benefits that we expect in today's culture... all it takes is  little more work, but it is unfortunate that so many people would rather work a job to make others wealthy rather that work for their own good and piece of mind. I've done more in my life than the everyday average person.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 06:07:43 PM
We should pursue OU with a great dedication because with it there will be no need for charities simply because poverty will be gone. That's why Bessler should have given away his invention -- to make charities obsolete.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 02, 2011, 09:37:45 PM
...news from veljkomilkovic.com:


Veljko Milkovic -- Planet in danger, civilization on test

Planet Earth can be compared to balloon continuously kept pumping until at the end it explodes. Exactly that is happening by using dirty technologies and frantic investing in armament...
Such a state can not last eternally and here two roads exist:...

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Planet_in_danger_civilization_on_test.pdf

       
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on January 03, 2011, 08:15:14 PM
I looked at things a little different and thought that since a pendulum ultimately comes to a stop why try to keep it in motion permanently because in reality trying to impart the energy necessary to do that is rather difficult because if you try to connect something to do that then your pendulum is not simply a pendulum anymore, and by adding energy either directly or by striking something to input the necessary energy you have a situation where there are parasitic losses and unwanted vibrations. What I have done is stop the pendulum after one single back and forth stroke at the highest position it has reached minus the loss to friction during that stroke. Since the pendulum is the single most efficient machine that exists... All I have to do now is compensate for the losses to friction and force the stopped pendulum up to it's initial start position... Much like Milkovic does by pushing the pendulum with his hand to compensate for those losses. There is a feedback mechanism I have designed to do this and at this point I can't tell you this part. The other thing that I have done is make use of hydraulics to transfer the output of energy to another area that is necessary to keep the timing of things.

I too think that the realization of a feedback mechanism for maintaining the pendulum moving is the real problem of the Milkovic's system. You could think to use an electric motor applied to the bearing of the pendulum, and to apply mechanical or electronics sensors to activate it in the proper instant, ok. But what kind of motor, when it's in the "passive phase", moves itself with no friction? With no friction in both the directions, clockwise and anticlockwise. No one, as I know. Maybe someone have an answer? Otherwise we could think to solve the problem with an air compressed pump, but you have the same problem in the "passive phase".

..buon 2011 a tutti :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 05, 2011, 05:41:53 PM
RHEAD100's new video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TApxb2o-EWQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 21, 2011, 08:07:40 PM
latest from veljkomilkovic.com:

 
Veljko Milkovic -- Leonardo da Vinci Gravity Machine

Old story is passed on from a generation to the generation that Leonardo’s gravity machine amazingly worked, but original model wasn’t saved, only drafts we can find on internet or in rare books...
...to ask question if greatest minds like Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519) were in total delusion or at least something different is still possible?


The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 571KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Leonardo_da_Vinci_Gravity_Machine.pdf


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on January 30, 2011, 05:25:52 PM
However, exceptions are everywhere around us!
Exceptions for the first law of thermodynamics are forbidden!

Dual mechanical oscillation system by Milkovic Veljko is the same!!! Real OVER UNITY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on January 30, 2011, 05:44:40 PM
Dual mechanical oscillation system by Milkovic Veljko is the same!!! Real OVER UNITY

sorry but this is NOT REAL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pinobot on January 30, 2011, 07:47:29 PM
Hi, just ran into this discussion, haven't been here for a while. I've been a bit busy myself.  ;D
Anyhow, the design looks like an overengineered version of something like this:
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Tempest on January 31, 2011, 03:00:23 AM
This should do it then, ya think pinobot?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pinobot on January 31, 2011, 08:49:21 PM
If you'd use a piezo than you wouldn't need the spring, the piezo works by difference in pressure.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Tempest on February 01, 2011, 11:22:53 PM
ya thought of that after i posted but i needed to go to bed at that point.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on February 03, 2011, 04:20:34 PM

sorry but this is NOT REAL

If you already think that it is not, tell me why???
Please provide at least one argument, if you have, of course.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on February 03, 2011, 04:31:01 PM
If you already think that it is not, tell me why???
Please provide at least one argument, if you have, of course.

yes it is illusion , i can explain you in french if you want
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on February 03, 2011, 05:41:22 PM

yes it is illusion , i can explain you in french if you want

Ok, explain on french, I understand
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on February 04, 2011, 09:00:06 AM
Ok, explain on french, I understand

look at your pm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on February 05, 2011, 08:55:40 AM

look at your pm ??
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on February 05, 2011, 12:18:26 PM

 
look at this one
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVzsfRJGlk&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVzsfRJGlk&feature=player_embedded)#
 
every gravity system run , with input power , until it definitely stop : no more input power
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 05, 2011, 12:33:30 PM

look at this one
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVzsfRJGlk&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVzsfRJGlk&feature=player_embedded)#
 
every gravity system run , with input power , until it definitely stop : no more input power

Yes, an AD~850 device is just the right thing...

This concept even supersedes the "Villard's hammered wheel", by a few hundred years...
(check out that site - the "Museum of the unworkable devices"...)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 05, 2011, 06:03:37 PM

look at this one
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVzsfRJGlk&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVzsfRJGlk&feature=player_embedded)#
 
every gravity system run , with input power , until it definitely stop : no more input power

Well, I looked at this one and I didn't see it definitely stopped.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on February 06, 2011, 08:58:22 AM
Well, I looked at this one and I didn't see it definitely stopped.

look at this one , really nice , but not working
 
http://cherrytree.free.fr/pages/aldo/0-16/videos.html (http://cherrytree.free.fr/pages/aldo/0-16/videos.html)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 06, 2011, 02:38:40 PM

look at this one , really nice , but not working
 
http://cherrytree.free.fr/pages/aldo/0-16/videos.html (http://cherrytree.free.fr/pages/aldo/0-16/videos.html)

Well, you say it doesn't work but it appears it does judging from the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qbyDMmEjq8 . Can't get what he says, though.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on February 06, 2011, 06:05:39 PM
Well, you say it doesn't work but it appears it does judging from the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qbyDMmEjq8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qbyDMmEjq8) . Can't get what he says, though.

he is saying that it works ... it looks like running ... but is it real ?
 
if you speak to him seriouly , after many many hours ... asking and asking ...
 is it running permanently ?
 
this man say me that the wheel stop after half turn !!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 06, 2011, 09:54:00 PM

look at this one
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVzsfRJGlk&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVzsfRJGlk&feature=player_embedded)#
 
every gravity system run , with input power , until it definitely stop : no more input power

I'd say that the little black vanes are an absolute necessity [not for mass] - so that air pressure can be directed down on them from the roof out of sight - the air current does work on the vanes causing torque on the down going side of the wheel & it revolves slowly.

It could not self sustain its rotation with gravity alone.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 06, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
I'd say that the little black vanes are an absolute necessity [not for mass] - so that air pressure can be directed down on them from the roof out of sight - the air current does work on the vanes causing torque on the down going side of the wheel & it revolves slowly.

It could not self sustain its rotation with gravity alone.

Yeah, that's the usual speculation but it can't explain away the production of excess energy in gravity wheels such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ02MjqBk7s&feature=youtube_gdata_player , self-sustaining or not.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 06, 2011, 11:36:05 PM
There is no excess energy in that gravity wheel, Omnibus. Excess energy must be that the energy comes from nowhere. The energy applied to this wheel are done by aligning the weights in inbalance in advace by using one-way bearings. So the hand puts energy into the system in advance - therefor it appears to be excess energy when it starts running. So there is no excess energy to be explained at all, so to speak.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 06, 2011, 11:55:29 PM
Thermodynamics never takes into account the energy put in to build a machine. The energy balance in thermodynamics is always done from the moment there is a machine available on. In this case the work of the machine starts from standstill. At that standstill the machine has certain gravitational potential energy, as a, say, ball has when sitting on a table with respect to the floor. In the case of a ball on a table, once it's let go towards the floor it can never recover the initial potential energy due to losses and never reaches the height of the table on its own. In this case the construction more than recovers the initially put in energy thus prodicing excess energy ("energy out of nothing", as it were).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 07, 2011, 10:19:04 AM
We have a quite different view on what are determined as excess energy. What I see is a hand that use energy in advance to align the weights into an unbalanced alignment - the weights as wee see it is initially pointing towards the right because the one-way bearings doesnt allow the "pendulums" to move clockwise. This potential are applied by the hand so the wheel can start rotating. The inventor could most likely have fixed weights on the wheel, and pushed the wheel so it starts to spin, couldn't he? The wheel stops after a while, and I see this as an equivalent to drop a bouncing ball into a concrete floor, and the ball will continue to bounce untill all kinetic energy are converted into heat. This applies to the wheel as well - except it rotates, and are not bouncing. The wheel stops after it has spend all that applied energy, and converted it into heat via friction. No excess energy there I'm afraid.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 07, 2011, 01:10:57 PM
No, that's incorrect.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 07, 2011, 02:44:11 PM
from YouTube...

Milkovic 2 stage oscillator Bedini powered
The Bedini coil pushes on the pendulum of the Milkovic 2 stage mechanical oscillator. the Bedini coil was first used on a "standard" Bedini setup. it was found to start very easily which lead me to think this might work. We have apparently combined two so called free energy devices
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVCvP53Au60
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 07, 2011, 02:52:02 PM
Not clear at all how this works.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 07, 2011, 04:29:07 PM
No, that's incorrect.
OK.
Btw., are you familiar with this situation? It is anyways a good description about how we at overunity.com works against the well established "truth" about physics. Needless to say, but we are suppose to be the salmon... ;D

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 07, 2011, 04:58:31 PM
So that vid isn't showing a self-sustaining device but something which powers externally whatever you call a "Bedinin coil", right? The goal, however, is to build a self-sustaining device, nothing short of it. The double pendulums in their different renditions (Milkovic, Dmitriyev etc.) are OU devices. Where is the self-sustaining system based on these devices, though?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on February 07, 2011, 06:23:55 PM
So that vid isn't showing a self-sustaining device but something which powers externally whatever you call a "Bedinin coil", right? The goal, however, is to build a self-sustaining device, nothing short of it. The double pendulums in their different renditions (Milkovic, Dmitriyev etc.) are OU devices. Where is the self-sustaining system based on these devices, though?

with 12 times more output than input, it is so easy to loop this device !!
 
tomorrow we get the video ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 07, 2011, 08:11:53 PM
Here is the video :)

Return To Gravity Assisted Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1n-C5o8fZ0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 07, 2011, 08:51:46 PM
Here is the video :)

Return To Gravity Assisted Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1n-C5o8fZ0

Speaking of an impressive build ... Can only be rivaled by Aldo Costa's and similarly to the slightly less impressive Bob Kostoff's gravity machine uses compressed air. Why is it an OU machine, however? Any otput/input energy figures available?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 07, 2011, 10:30:02 PM
Yeah, that's the usual speculation but it can't explain away the production of excess energy in gravity wheels such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ02MjqBk7s&feature=youtube_gdata_player , self-sustaining or not.

No .. in that video the guy is hand positioning the imbalance [as Vidar said] & in doing so has lifted the Pe of the pendulum so that it sits high at rim level - IOW's he added Potential Energy of Position into the system to prime it.

Did you see at anytime the single or dual pendulums etc ever achieve the same starting height ? - the answer is NO - what you saw was a system that acted like a chain weighted pendulum clock - it's center of mass [CoM] was lowered one time & that Pe wass converted into Ke & momentum - it is not self sustaining nor achieved a restoration of Pe to be self sustaining, therefore not OU.

Omnibus wrote > Thermodynamics never takes into account the energy put in to build a machine. The energy balance in thermodynamics is always done from the moment there is a machine available on. In this case the work of the machine starts from standstill. At that standstill the machine has certain gravitational potential energy, as a, say, ball has when sitting on a table with respect to the floor. In the case of a ball on a table, once it's let go towards the floor it can never recover the initial potential energy due to losses and never reaches the height of the table on its own. In this case the construction more than recovers the initially put in energy thus prodicing excess energy ("energy out of nothing", as it were).

Non-sense ! - see above.

To be OU a machine [already constructed] must restore its Potential Energy - if that is an oscillating device that means achieving the same or better starting height for CoM.

If that is a rotating system then the device must restore full Pe of Position & if excess Energy is available it will also manifest as excess momentum & Ke seen as excess velocity as it completes a cycle - so the conditions to be OU is that Pe is restored & to do Work there must also be excess momentum after one cycle.

Non of your examples did this, therefore NOT OU !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 07, 2011, 10:32:32 PM
No ..

Then, explain it. Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded#
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 07, 2011, 10:45:08 PM
Then, explain it. Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded#


See above post - I doubt you'll learn it though !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 07, 2011, 11:00:17 PM

See above post - I doubt you'll learn it though !

No, it's you who needs to learn. Where's the proof that there's no OU in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded# ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bubba1 on February 08, 2011, 02:37:04 AM
Notice the height of the black weight at the start (0:00) and compare that height to the height of the weight as it comes around to the top again (at 0:07).  At 0:07, the black weight is slightly lower than it was at 0:00, meaning the arm has lost some potential energy and gained some kinetic energy.  I do not see OU here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 02:49:03 AM
Notice the height of the black weight at the start (0:00) and compare that height to the height of the weight as it comes around to the top again (at 0:07).  At 0:07, the black weight is slightly lower than it was at 0:00, meaning the arm has lost some potential energy and gained some kinetic energy.  I do not see OU here.

Why do you stop at 0:07s in your analysis? Starting from rest the wheel makes one turn (granted the lever is lower at 0:07s ath the completion of the first turn) but then the wheel makes another turn restoring the same lever height and almost completes yet another, third turn. Did you notice that or in order to conclude there's no OU we only have to observe experiments partially?

Is the wheel going to behave this way should the weight be attached directly to its periphery at 12 o'clock and not as a double pendulum as in the video? Will it complete even one full turn this way?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 03:15:02 AM
No .. in that video the guy is hand positioning the imbalance [as Vidar said] & in doing so has lifted the Pe of the pendulum so that it sits high at rim level - IOW's he added Potential Energy of Position into the system to prime it.

Did you see at anytime the single or dual pendulums etc ever achieve the same starting height ? - the answer is NO - what you saw was a system that acted like a chain weighted pendulum clock - it's center of mass [CoM] was lowered one time & that Pe wass converted into Ke & momentum - it is not self sustaining nor achieved a restoration of Pe to be self sustaining, therefore not OU.

Omnibus wrote > Thermodynamics never takes into account the energy put in to build a machine. The energy balance in thermodynamics is always done from the moment there is a machine available on. In this case the work of the machine starts from standstill. At that standstill the machine has certain gravitational potential energy, as a, say, ball has when sitting on a table with respect to the floor. In the case of a ball on a table, once it's let go towards the floor it can never recover the initial potential energy due to losses and never reaches the height of the table on its own. In this case the construction more than recovers the initially put in energy thus prodicing excess energy ("energy out of nothing", as it were).

Non-sense ! - see above.

To be OU a machine [already constructed] must restore its Potential Energy - if that is an oscillating device that means achieving the same or better starting height for CoM.

If that is a rotating system then the device must restore full Pe of Position & if excess Energy is available it will also manifest as excess momentum & Ke seen as excess velocity as it completes a cycle - so the conditions to be OU is that Pe is restored & to do Work there must also be excess momentum after one cycle.

Non of your examples did this, therefore NOT OU !

On the contrary, what you're saying is nonsense. My explanation is valid even if someone is holding a ball at rest above ground and lets it go. The ball will not return to the same height because of losses -- therefor there's no CoE violation. In the video at hand, however, the weight obviously restores its initial height during the second turn. Therefore excess energy is produced. Unfortunately the excess energy produced is in a form which doesn't allow direct looping (restoring the inital position on the fly). That's a purely technical problem and has nothing to do with the obvious violation of CoE in this case.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 04:13:07 AM
Quote
To be OU a machine [already constructed] must restore its Potential Energy - if that is an oscillating device that means achieving the same or better starting height for CoM.

If that is a rotating system then the device must restore full Pe of Position & if excess Energy is available it will also manifest as excess momentum & Ke seen as excess velocity as it completes a cycle - so the conditions to be OU is that Pe is restored & to do Work there must also be excess momentum after one cycle.

Non of your examples did this, therefore NOT OU !


These are wrong criteria for a machine to be OU. These criteria are wrong because they are restrictive – restoration of the potential energy is not a necessary condition for a machine to be OU. A given potential energy may be converted into other kinds of energies at which additional portion of energies other than potential energy can be produced out of no pre-existing energy source. Thus, smot for known reasons showing disbalance of the overall output vs. input energies is OU, magnetic propulsor also for such known reasons is an OU device etc. OU system is also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo because the magnet sphere pulled apart along different routes ends up on different potential surfaces at zero magnetic force (cf. the figure below). Thus, the integral of force along the closed L-M-K-L loop is non-zero.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 08, 2011, 04:17:40 AM
No, it's you who needs to learn. Where's the proof that there's no OU in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded# ?

omnibus .. your talent to ego ratio is out of kilter.

Take another look at the vids - study them instead of what you're going to say next.

But, on the brighter side, your level of incompetence comes shining thru yet again in your posts !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 04:44:44 AM
In the case at hand, the contention is that the mgdeltaH is the gravitational potential energy which not only helps to complete the first turn but also drives the wheel throughout an entire second turn and allows it to almost complete a third turn. That isn’t at all evident and if someone insists that such speculation is viable one has to prove it quantitatively.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 04:46:13 AM
omnibus .. your talent to ego ratio is out of kilter.

Take another look at the vids - study them instead of what you're going to say next.

But, on the brighter side, your level of incompetence comes shining thru yet again in your posts !

Quite the contrary, it's your level of incompetence that shines through your posts. Your narrow definitions and limited understanding of the matter proves it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 04:53:48 AM
Now, because when the weight attached directly to the periphery only causes one incomplete turn we’ll subtract it from what we see in the vid. So, that mgdeltaH causes the generation of kinetic energy through two complete turns. Think about it. Is that disproportionate or what?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 05:05:51 AM
Also, when talking about violation of CoE one should never forget that violation of CoE is inherently present in the very heart of theoretical physics -- the Hamilton's equations -- as I have already shown.

Now the fletchers of the world like to blabber about competence. However, when it comes to real arguments they are nowhere to be found.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 08, 2011, 05:10:59 AM
Seriously omnibus - I know when you repeat what I've just said that you're rattled.

Are you embarrassed ? You should be ! - I'm embarrassed for you - You're giving moron's a bad name & soon they're gonna disown you !

-------------------------------------------

So ... Pe [mgh] = Ke

& Ke = 1/2 m v^2

Notice the element of velocity in Ke equation ?

So to help you with the answer - calculate the Pe loss.

Clue : that equals the Ke of the wheel after one cycle - work backwards to see if it matches the velocity you see & can measure  - sheesh, what an idiot !

P.S. don't confuse things with momentum !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 05:16:05 AM
Stop assaulting me undeservedly. Try to learn some physics first and then come here to do something more than blabbering.

What did you prove with these equations? Sheer nothing. Shall I call you a moron, then. No, because I'm a gentleman. I'll only ask you to learn physics before coming here and cluttering the thread with gibberish.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 05:23:12 AM
To be noticed once again. It is presumpuious to write Pe[mgh] = Ke because it goes against the experimentlal facts. Like I said, we see kinetic energy of two full rotations due to that small mgdeltaH. On the other hand, we see that the large mgH cannot bring about even one full rotation.

Slapping formuli frivolusly as fletcher does only serves to demonstrate his own incompetence and nothing else. If people such as fletcher want to prove their point of this device not being OU much much more is needed to be shown as a theoretical argument, not just slapping formuli frivolously.

I'll remind also, every time violation of CoE is discussed (independent of whether or not this particular case turns out to be OU in the end) that, contrary to what superficial people such as fletcher think, violation of CoE is inherently contained in the very heart of the standard theoretical physics -- the Hamilton's equations -- as I have already shown.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 08, 2011, 05:58:33 AM
Oh, but you do deserve it omni_moron !

Learn some mechanics & how to analyse things properly before pushing your incessant rubbish !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 06:04:20 AM
Oh, but you do deserve it omni_moron !

Learn some mechanics & how to analyse things properly before pushing your incessant rubbish !

Hey, buddy, either give arguments or just get lost. No one should get embarrassed for you by your bad manners let alone your incompetence to express a coherent argument.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 06:12:20 AM
To be notice once again -- the video shows that a weight attached to the periphery cannot carry through even one full turn. On the other hand, the weight attached to a one-way clutch causes two full turns in addition to a third incomplete one. This is the argument fletcher cannot shoot down with his blabber. Like I said, if he wants to really prove that that's trivial he has to present quantitative derivations (which are obviously over his head). Mind you also, that no matter what arguments fletcher would attempt the undeniable truth remains -- violation of CoE is contained in the very essence of theoretical mechanics -- the Hamilton's equations  -- as I have already shown. Watch carefully -- fletcher can only curse and use ad hominem but will not be able to present a cogent argument against my claim.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 08, 2011, 08:19:40 AM
I'm no buddy of yours arsehole.

Seems you like to dish it out over numerous threads to way to many people who try to discuss things civilally & intelligently with you, but have a different opinion than your own - you browbeat them into submission or they go away in disgust, exasperated by your illogical arguments & failure to get through to you.

Suck it up baby, try the shoe on the other foot - I'm here to stay & I'll keep riding you till you learn & show some respect & manners to others.

If however, you want to make progress in threads & conduct logical civil discussions, without being an arsehole to others, then I might go away, LOL.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 08:34:53 AM
Don't make me laugh. Where are your arguments? Hey, buddy, other people are reading here too, not only you and I, do you realize that? Obviously not. Arguments, arguments, buddy. Only arguments will save you from the embarrassment you inflicted on your own self.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 08, 2011, 10:01:00 AM
In the case at hand, the contention is that the mgdeltaH is the gravitational potential energy which not only helps to complete the first turn but also drives the wheel throughout an entire second turn and allows it to almost complete a third turn. That isn’t at all evident and if someone insists that such speculation is viable one has to prove it quantitatively.
One does not need to think so complicated to see the function of the wheel. Your request for a quantitative proof are not necessary - there is no need to prove this quantitatively, because common sense are sufficient as proof.

Delta H is the reason why the wheel can start to rotate. Delta H are applied in advance by hand, then this applied potential energy are spent when the wheel have taken one round. After that the mass will follow the same circular path. Because the wheel are big and loss are low, the built up kinetic energy in the wheel will make it turn several rounds untill friction has consumed all the kinetic energy.
There is no more to be explained. The wheel are not OU - no matter what you reply.

An equivalent deal, in a different case, is to place a ball on a track. The track starts with a gentle slope downwards, then the track are horizontal for as long as the eye can see. Delta H are equivalent to the one in the wheel. Do you then call it excess energy achieved in the ball if you by hand spend energy to place the ball at the top of the track and let it go? It is the same deal in two different cases. The wheel are not OU.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 08, 2011, 10:12:15 AM
To be notice once again -- the video shows that a weight attached to the periphery cannot carry through even one full turn.
Yes it can - ofcourse it can!

On the other hand, the weight attached to a one-way clutch causes two full turns in addition to a third incomplete one.
Ofcourse! What are the mysterious about this? The weight follows a circular path after it has spent the potential energy found in delta H. Thats why the wheel are allowed to continue untill friction stops it.

 .... Like I said, if he wants to really prove that that's trivial he has to present quantitative derivations (which are obviously over his head).
Projection!! There is no need for quantitative proof. Your request are present one and only to win the discussion.

 Mind you also, that no matter what arguments fletcher would attempt the undeniable truth remains -- violation of CoE is contained in the very essence of theoretical mechanics -- the Hamilton's equations  -- as I have already shown. Watch carefully -- fletcher can only curse and use ad hominem but will not be able to present a cogent argument against my claim.
This is a lie. Whatch your mouth buddy.

The wheel does not violate CoE, no matter what you reply.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 10:17:48 AM
In both cases (weight attached directly to the rim and weight attached to the rim through a lever secured to the disc by a one-way clutch bearing) the start is at 12 o'clock and the end is at 6 o'clock. The difference is that in the first case (weight attached directly to rim) the disc doesn't make even one full turn while in the second case (weight attached through lever to rim) the disc makes two full turns plus over 3/4 of another, third turn. If we consider that in the first case CoE is obeyed then the second case demonstrates obvious violation of CoE and production of excess energy due to the peculiar construction -- restricted double pendulum. It is curious that the Karra Green Energy machine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcz4G-kRRXg) and other perpetuum mobiles such as that of Orffireus use quite similar restricted double pendulums as in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded# . This important OU idea should be studied very carefully.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 10:24:52 AM
Anybody can make an experiment and see that when weight is attached to rim the disc wil never make more than part of a full turn. You may try it with any diameter disc and any weight. With the restricted double pendulum things change drastically -- the disc ( starting from rest) makes not only one but two full turns plus another over 3/4 third turn. This is a direct proof that the restricted double pendulum disc is an OU machine. The problem now is how to harness the OU produced for the purposes of continuous spin which is a purely technical problem. It appears this problem has been solved in devices such as Karra Green Energy machine. Very very interesting.

By the way Veljko Milkovic has been talking for years about the OU properties of double pendulums. I've heard Reidar Finsrud also talking a lot about these chaotic pendulums. And we see now some people like Mikhail Dmitriyev are catching up. This is an old idea, as far back as Orrfyreus' times and it has probably been around in the form of working perpetuum mobiles but has been suppressed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 08, 2011, 11:28:01 AM
In both cases (weight attached directly to the rim and weight attached to the rim through a lever secured to the disc by a one-way clutch bearing) the start is at 12 o'clock and the end is at 6 o'clock. The difference is that in the first case (weight attached directly to rim) the disc doesn't make even one full turn while in the second case (weight attached through lever to rim) the disc makes two full turns plus over 3/4 of another, third turn. If we consider that in the first case CoE is obeyed then the second case demonstrates obvious violation of CoE and production of excess energy due to the peculiar construction -- restricted double pendulum. It is curious that the Karra Green Energy machine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcz4G-kRRXg) and other perpetuum mobiles such as that of Orffireus use quite similar restricted double pendulums as in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded# . This important OU idea should be studied very carefully.
The weight are only placed on the end of the lever in order to apply initial torque into the system. There is no weight placed on the rim other than the weight of the bearing and the lever arm itself - these weights are of no interest.
The weight starts little over 12 o'clock. At the bottom 6 o'clock, the weight has lost altitude equal to the diameter of the rim + deltaH, and the torque are now zero untill the wheel stops. How many rounds it takes isn't interesting. DeltaH are applied by the hand in advance to provide initial torque. The sum of input energy and output energy (in any form) are trivial. No violation of CoE.

Regarding the other video (from '92?), I have no knowledge to this design, to make up my mind about it, nor discuss it.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 11:41:39 AM
That's incorrect.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on February 08, 2011, 04:14:51 PM
Here is the video :)

Return To Gravity Assisted Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1n-C5o8fZ0

Very interesting! But they don't explain anything. And that is not a double pendulum
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on February 08, 2011, 07:25:44 PM
@Omnibus re the clip you showed us of the gravity wheel of Mikhail Dmetriev . Look again at the full video on his website from which your clip was taken . You will notice that this video has been edited . I t shows several runs , And at the start of each run , the bits where the weights are reset by hand have been edited out . Look at the wheel in the start position and plot the resultant center of gravity of all the weights added together . Wait till the wheel stops , and plot again . The first plot will show the resultant c of g higher than the wheel axle . The second plot will show c of g lower than the axle . So it works the same as a weight driven clock . When it needs rewinding it stops . But a lot sooner than a clock . I am AMAZED that a man of your caliber would miss this .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 07:30:26 PM
@Omnibus re the clip you showed us of the gravity wheel of Mikhail Dmetriev . Look again at the full video on his website from which your clip was taken . You will notice that this video has been edited . I t shows several runs , And at the start of each run , the bits where the weights are reset by hand have been edited out . Look at the wheel in the start position and plot the resultant center of gravity of all the weights added together . Wait till the wheel stops , and plot again . The first plot will show the resultant c of g higher than the wheel axle . The second plot will show c of g lower than the axle . So it works the same as a weight driven clock . When it needs rewinding it stops . But a lot sooner than a clock . I am AMAZED that a man of your caliber would miss this .

I know, but, again, a weight attached to the rim can't even cause a full rotation while the same weight attached via a lever and a one-way clutch causes almost three rotations starting from the same height. What do you say to that?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on February 08, 2011, 08:00:55 PM
@Omnibus . OK suppose there are 8 weights . Each weight is , say 2Kg . And suppose that after doing the plots as per my last post , we find a CofG drop of 6 inches . Now take the same wheel on the same bearings but remove the weight/clutch assemblies .Now take a 16 Kg weight [8x2] and attach it to a string , and place it beneath the axle . Tie the other end of the string to the axle . Rotate the wheel by hand and the axle will act as a winch , raising the weight . Stop when you have raised the weight 6 inches . You have just inputted the same amount of work as is required to set the weights by hand in the video .Now release the wheel . The weight will drop and the wheel will turn . When the weight reaches the floor quickly cut the string with scissors . I Will wager my last dime that the wheel will rotate more than 2.75 times , and likely at least 10 times . I am not the kind of guy who can quote some equations to back this up , but my instinct based on real world experience tells me it is so . I would be really interested to know what you think .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 08:13:39 PM
Please comment the case with only one weight as I suggested earlier.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 08, 2011, 08:14:16 PM
B_E_C_A_U_S_E ... the Center of Mass [CoM] of the unit lowers itself in the first rotation to its lowest position attainable, like has been said - N.B. like a weighted chain pendulum clock coverts Pe to mechanical energy & resistance losses, like has been said.

That means Potential Energy of Position [Pe] is given up & converted to Kinetic Energy [Ke], since Pe = Ke in a gravity field substitution will suffice.

Torque was established by hand setting the device & raising its Pe then the Pe was reduced as the unit CoM lost its Pe of position over the initial revolution leaving it with residual momentum & Ke, as has been said.

The Ke it had after one revolution is diminished by resistance [friction] losses until there is no more Ke, but the Ke it received is the same as the Pe lost by the drop in the units CoM.

The device makes no attempt at Pe restitution ! - so is like letting a ball roll down a track, as has been said.

------------------------------------------------

When a mass is directly attached to the rim, so that the wheel starts with torque, the CoM is following a circular orbit as it revolves - if there were no system losses the orbit would start & finish at the same height, thus restoring Pe - there are losses however, so the CoM doesn't quite make it back to start height & fully restore Pe, thus the unit doesn't complete one full cycle - "common sense".

What this means is that there isn't a pathway or mechanical arrangement that allows the unit to progressively lower [wind down] the CoM & it is effectively engineered for Pe restoration, which is quite different from the video demonstration of cocked pendulums around a wheel where the mechanics & engineering allows the CoM to loose Pe & wind itself down.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 08:25:31 PM
Restoration of Pe is immaterial, as I have already noted. The fact which you also agree with remains, namely, that due to difference in the mechanical construction the same gravitational potential energy gives rise to two different values of kinetic energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 08, 2011, 08:41:44 PM
I know, but, again, a weight attached to the rim can't even cause a full rotation while the same weight attached via a lever and a one-way clutch causes almost three rotations starting from the same height. What do you say to that?

Lol, another one of the trolling Omnibot's (many) historical statements....

I sincerely think that even HE cannot possibly be THAT DUMB... He is probably doing this just to provoke some feedback to his excessive BS posting, and to annoy people.

On a second thought... Isn't he the same guy who claims that almost all FE devices until now exhibit OU? Yep, he's the one who showed us, on numerous occasions, that "CoE has been broken without any reason of a doubt"+ blaBlabla & yada-dada-daa...

Energy, especially very basic forms like Potential & Kinetic - will always stay a mystery to our dearest Troll.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 08:44:41 PM
Of course, as obvious from the above post, some people like to blabber having absolutely no clue regarding the topic at hand.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 08:49:51 PM
The problem with making an Orryfeus-type working device (Milkovic, Dmitriev, Glotov etc.) is how to harness efficiently the produced excess energy to restore the initial state of the pendulum. It appears Karra Green Energy have managed to do that which only be known for sure if independent parties reproduce that device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 08, 2011, 08:59:24 PM
Of course, as obvious from the above post, some people like to blabber having absolutely no clue regarding the topic at hand.

Hey, what a smart move, you're now pasting typical replies from other people to your own posts... Auto-text feature? Fingers hurt of too much typing?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 09:01:48 PM
As seen from the above post the incoherent blabber, unconnected to the topic at hand, continues.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on February 08, 2011, 09:03:45 PM
Gentlemen , can we please discuss this without calling each other names . @ Omnibus . The answer to your question is not clear in my mind . One thing we need to consider is this . In the case of the one  weight fixed to the rim , the wheel will turn until the weight regains say 90% of its original height . Then it stops . But this is not end-of-story . The wheel then rotates backwards until the wheel is at say 81% of its original height and stops again . It will continue to oscillate in a pendulum like fashion for quite some time . Again I would wager my last cent that if we add these part rotations [in degrees] together , the total would far exceed 2.75 rotations . This time we have 2Kg dropping say 4 feet instead of 16 Kg falling half a foot , about the same driving force? What say you?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 09:09:19 PM
Gentlemen , can we please discuss this without calling each other names . @ Omnibus . The answer to your question is not clear in my mind . One thing we need to consider is this . In the case of the one  weight fixed to the rim , the wheel will turn until the weight regains say 90% of its original height . Then it stops . But this is not end-of-story . The wheel then rotates backwards until the wheel is at say 81% of its original height and stops again . It will continue to oscillate in a pendulum like fashion for quite some time . Again I would wager my last cent that if we add these part rotations [in degrees] together , the total would far exceed 2.75 rotations . This time we have 2Kg dropping say 4 feet instead of 16 Kg falling half a foot , about the same driving force? What say you?

Problem is, starting from the same level, both cases will finally oscillate. The lever case, however, will make two additional full turns which the wheel with weight attached to rim won't. Focus on this effect. That's the important observation in this case.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 08, 2011, 09:12:34 PM
As seen from the above post the incoherent blabber, unconnected to the topic at hand, continues.

Off topic? I simply replied to one of your posts here. Maybe it was you who was off-topic?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded#)

This is yours, me thinks. And we all heard your explanation. Several times. Of course, as expected, it was all BS, or "incoherent blabber".
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 09:12:41 PM
I wish @P-Motion is reading this to carry out an experiment with his rig and see what will happen when the disc is replaced by just an arm.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 08, 2011, 09:51:13 PM
I wish @P-Motion is reading this to carry out an experiment with his rig and see what will happen when the disc is replaced by just an arm.
Oh, why do you need a second opinion? We're not talking about your mental state...

I'm afraid P-M might not do the experiment (instead of you), if he sees your "video proof" first...


In the mean time, try again a "cuckoo clock" mechanism, it must definitely be OU. (one of your first "OU" devices, remember?)  ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 10:01:44 PM
As seen, the person who has posted the last post continues with his gibberish. I will post a note such as this one every time that person demonstrates his audacity to impudently disrupt the discussion.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 08, 2011, 10:05:27 PM
As seen, the person who has posted the last post continues with his gibberish. I will post a note such as this one every time that person demonstrates his audacity to impudently disrupt the discussion.

Hey, it works!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 10:11:00 PM
The person continues to clutter the thread with gibberish, as seen from the last post where he repeats what I've said about him. I'm posting arguments, however, while he is not. He is only posting nonsense, as seen. Someone has to take notice of this and relieve this unfortunate situation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 10:12:55 PM
Wasn't this supposed to be a moderated thread?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 08, 2011, 10:15:20 PM
The person continues to clutter the thread with gibberish, as seen from the last post where he repeats what I've said about him. I'm posting arguments, however, while he is not. Someone has to take notice of this and relieve this unfortunate situation.
 ;D

(Ok, ok, I'll stop with this silly Omnibot's strategy...)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 10:19:28 PM
Isn't this a moderated thread? How is it possible to allow disruptive elements such as @spinn_MP to clutter the discussion with their spam?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MrMag on February 09, 2011, 01:13:06 AM
Isn't this a moderated thread? How is it possible to allow disruptive elements such as @spinn_MP to clutter the discussion with their spam?

If it was moderated, you would of been placed on read only by now.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 01:35:21 AM
If it was moderated, you would of been placed on read only by now.

A moderator should take of you too for your spam and interrupting the discussions with gibberish.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bubba1 on February 09, 2011, 01:53:50 AM
Problem is, starting from the same level, both cases will finally oscillate. The lever case, however, will make two additional full turns which the wheel with weight attached to rim won't. Focus on this effect. That's the important observation in this case.

In the case of the lever, in going around a full turn, the weight WILL NOT GET BACK UP TO ITS ORIGINAL HEIGHT, so naturally it has some extra kinetic energy.  Focus on that.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 02:00:25 AM
In the case of the lever, in going around a full turn, the weight WILL NOT GET BACK UP TO ITS ORIGINAL HEIGHT, so naturally it has some extra kinetic energy.  Focus on that.

The focus here should be the fact that in one case the disc cannot make even one full turn while in the other case the disc makes two full turns and much more. To convince yourself that that's the case adjust the initial height and the final height in the two cases exactly the same. By the very nature of the devices it will turn out that the same potential energy in on case cannot even finish a turn while in the other causes almost three turns. So, yes, the potential energies in the two cases which are the subject of comparison are exactly the same. The kinetic energies derived from these equal potential energies, however, differ substantially. That's the issue, nothing else.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 02:26:04 AM

The focus here should be the fact that in one case the disc cannot make even one full turn while in the other case the disc makes two full turns and much more. To convince yourself that that's the case adjust the initial height and the final height in the two cases exactly the same. By the very nature of the devices it will turn out that the same potential energy in on case cannot even finish a turn while in the other causes almost three turns.

So, yes, the potential energies in the two cases which are the subject of comparison are exactly the same.

The kinetic energies derived from these equal potential energies, however, differ substantially.

That's the issue, nothing else.

Your statement about Pe's be exactly the SAME is blatantly incorrect !

Assuming both start at the same height then their Pe [mgh] is calculated on displacement from a datum.

In the case of the mass attached to a rim & released that bottom datum is the axle [Center of Rotation] because the CoM orbits around this point at constant radius - thus height is h1.

In the case of the hanging pendulum wheels the datum moves to below the axle i.e. h is greater - the CoM doesn't orbit at a constant radius about the CoR but an elliptical path, so height = h1 + h2, giving greater Pe [mgh].
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 02:31:53 AM
I said, you will adjust the heights to be the same in both cases. Otherwise you can't compare them. The point is that with a weight attached to the rim, no matter what you do and what height you choose you won't be able to achieve almost threefull rotation starting from rest. With a lever construction you can for almost any height you choose.

This is a difference in behavior which is obvious even qualitatively and that's one of the direct demonstrations of CoE violation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 02:48:23 AM
I said, you will adjust the heights to be the same in both cases. Otherwise you can't compare them. The point is that with a weight attached to the rim, no matter what you do and what height you choose you won't be able to achieve almost threefull rotation starting from rest. With a lever construction you can for almost any height you choose.

This is a difference in behavior which is obvious even qualitatively and that's one of the direct demonstrations of CoE violation.

Quote
The focus here should be the fact that in one case the disc cannot make even one full turn while in the other case the disc makes two full turns and much more.

To convince yourself that that's the case adjust the initial height and the final height in the two cases exactly the same. By the very nature of the devices it will turn out that the same potential energy in on case cannot even finish a turn while in the other causes almost three turns.

So, yes, the potential energies in the two cases which are the subject of comparison are exactly the same.

My misunderstanding of what you wrote then about initial & final heights.

However you continue to conveniently forget that you had to raise the pendulum to create the torque & that took Input Energy - the wheel may achieve a few rotations but it does not restore Pe to starting conditions or self sustain itself.

Since you Inputted Energy to give it Pe max, but it did not achieve restoration of Pe, but did have residual Ke & lower Pe, then I would hardly call that "one of the direct demonstrations of violation of CoE".

The Pe shortfall equals the residual Ke of the wheel allowing a few turns before frictions cause it to keel. - Nothing at all special there !


----------------------------------


If there were a violation of CoE then there should be surplus Energy available to do Work !

Where is it & make the wheel do continuous work whilst sustaining itself ? - otherwise it's a weighted chain pendulum clock analogue ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 03:03:18 AM
There is obviously surplus energy capable of doing work but it is produced in a manner which at this point cannot be fed into the input. Making a self-sustaining device is only a technical matter.

It isn't at all a trivial matter to obtain two different values of kinetic energy from one and the same value of potential energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mscoffman on February 09, 2011, 03:03:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8&feature=related

I like this one, where the guy lights bunches squeeze flashlights
with his pendulum. All he needs is to take out all the light bulbs
and wire them all together through diodes. Then build the
Bedini motor circuit - a magnetic mirror circuit, and mount a
powerful magnet at the base of the weight to keep the weight
moving.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Similar to this Web Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVCvP53Au60

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Bedini-Powered_Milkovic_Two-Stage_Oscillator

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bubba1 on February 09, 2011, 03:19:40 AM
It isn't at all a trivial matter to obtain two different values of kinetic energy from one and the same value of potential energy.

You get the same value of kinetic energy from one and the same value of potential energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 03:21:10 AM
You get the same value of kinetic energy from one and the same value of potential energy.

In this case you obviously don't.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 03:27:01 AM
There is obviously surplus energy capable of doing work but it is produced in a manner which at this point cannot be fed into the input. Making a self-sustaining device is only a technical matter.

It isn't at all a trivial matter to obtain two different values of kinetic energy from one and the same value of potential energy.

Cool .. I'll get right onto converting my grandfather clock cause it's already doing mechanical work for well over 24 hours.

Just have to figure how I cam mechanically arrange it to use that work output to do work telling the time, rewind itself when the weight reaches the end of its travel & cover losses - dang, that's harder than I thought but it must be possible mechanically coz omnibus tells us that it's a clear violation of CoE & making it self sustaining is only a technical matter !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 03:31:26 AM
No, that analogy is incorrect. Your grandfather's clock is the disc with weight secured at the rim. Winding it will get you that much ticking. However, if you use the advanced clock (no analogy in the clock world yet) which is the pendulum enhanced disc you'll get three days more of work for the same winding. This is more of a likely analogy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bubba1 on February 09, 2011, 03:33:34 AM
In this case you obviously don't.

Yes, you do.  You just don't see it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bubba1 on February 09, 2011, 03:43:08 AM
In the case of the weight on the rim, the weight must travel up to the original height for the wheel to make a full turn.  In the case of the lever, the weight only has to travel up to the original height, minus the length of the lever.  If the wheel height is 50 inches, the weight on the rim must travel back up to 50 inches for the wheel to make a full turn.  The weight on a 5 inch lever, however, only must travel back up to 45 inches.  Which one takes less energy?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 03:51:56 AM
No, it will not descend to different levels. Like I said, you can adjust the experiment in such a way as to have the same heights in both cases. I said that already.

Aksi, you may play with different heights in both cases -- then weight at the rim case having shorter height than the lever case and vice versa. In all cases you'll observe almost three turns in the lever case versus the rim case.

So, take what the vid shows as the beginning of your exploration and adjust heights to match (to avoid the subtraction of the lever arm) and you'll get the same discrepancy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 03:52:53 AM
I will carry out an experiment sometime this or next month and will make a video to demonstrate this important instance of CoE violation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 05:11:29 AM
Omnibus .. this is what you fail to understand.

When the lever is primed Work is Done on it i.e. F x D in Joules - call that the Input Energy in Joules.

The wheel is Out of Balance [OOB] at start position so it has torque & rotates - it releases Pe as it rotates to bdc gaining Ke - it has velocity as it passes bdc & enough Ke & momentum to make a revolution or three which you see & interpret as a demonstration of CoE violation [it is NOT].

Everyone else see's that whilst it makes a few revolutions the Rotational Ke = 1/2mv^2 [in Joules] of the wheel is slightly less than the Input Energy Work Done [in Joules] you primed it with - each revolution has slightly less residual Ke [in Joules] than the original Input Energy Work Done [in Joules] loaded into the system !

So, Input Energy plus Pe = Rot Ke less Losses.

N.B.1. With NO Input Energy, there is NO long run down time while it's used up !

N.B.2. It is legitimate to use Input Energy [Work Done] to start a wheel - but Output Energy [Work Done] must be greater than or at least equal to Input Energy PLUS losses - substantially greater to do useful Work & then you have violated CoE.

Check these things in your experiment !

-----------------------------------------------

Mark .. the Milkovich dual pendulums face the same scenario outlined above - the pendulum has Work Done on it i.e. F x D [in joules], to prime it - it oscillates & the Work Output less losses [in Joules] is slightly less than Work Input Work Done Energy [in Joules].

The Output Energy is progressively slightly less each oscillation than the original Input Energy with small losses, else it could do work & self sustain itself.

The bendini coil is just a more efficient way of slowing down losses IMO.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MrMag on February 09, 2011, 05:37:11 AM
I will carry out an experiment sometime this or next month and will make a video to demonstrate this important instance of CoE violation.

Translation: Hopefully in two months you will forget I made this statement.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: WilbyInebriated on February 09, 2011, 05:41:36 AM
@fletcher
nota bene: omnem dimittite spem, o vos dicere cum omnibus.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 05:43:56 AM
When in the two cases the weights are set at the same h and they are left at rest there that means that the priming done is the same for each one of them. That should be obvious. The only difference is the construction but that doesn't take part when energy balance is done. Everything else follows from the clear understanding of that pivotal point -- the equality of the initial potential energy in each one of the cases. The difference further on, once the said equality is understood well, is self-evident. If CoE were not violated there should be no difference further down the line under these initial conditions -- the initial equality of the gravitational potential energy in each case.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 05:54:06 AM
Hope is one thing Wilby, delusion is another.

Omnibus will find his waterloo soon enough when he does the experiments.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: WilbyInebriated on February 09, 2011, 06:10:12 AM
Hope is one thing Wilby, delusion is another.

Omnibus will find his waterloo soon enough when he does the experiments.
indeed. i was just saying don't hold your breath on being able to persuade omni... it is hopeless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 06:13:51 AM
I can persuaded very easily but the arguments have to be persuasive. Just saying 'that can't be' or something of the sort won't cut the mustard.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 08:02:38 AM
indeed. i was just saying don't hold your breath on being able to persuade omni... it is hopeless.

Thanks, I got the gist of it & quite agree - quite some grand delusion I think.

The onus is on him to back up his grand theories with cold hard facts that others can analyse - I won't hold my breath for that either as Mr Mag said.

Seems to be self educated [as perhaps most of us are] but obviously spent a lot of time cutting class.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 08:20:43 AM
This is an obvious problem in the field of OU. The most vocal participants are self-educated and have a limited understanding of how science actually works and what a quality scientific argument is. There are many bright people around but when the educated structure of thinking and scientific methodology is wanting that leads to a lot of waste. One telling example from history is Edison, who aside from being a crook has been self-educated which has resulted in total lack of personal productivity and talent which he has compensated by stealing ideas and skills from others. I'm not saying there are such crooks here but some of the active self-educated people should slow it down because incompetent activity can only be detrimental to the progress in this area of research which we, all of us, so much love.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 09:40:06 AM
Really ! - that reads like the introduction to chapter one of your autobiography.

In this endeavour to find mechanical gravity OU most are trying to find a loop hole in known physics, or to rewrite the physics books entirely with a spectacular indisputable demonstration.

Seldom does one rewrite the theory without having the experimental evidence to back it up - that's self preservation strategy, especially if the theory skills are wanting - hard to argue with empirical evidence even if you can't explain it particularly well, your case is made & you have the slam dunk in your back pocket that the forensic physicists can pour over at your leisure.

What I find disturbing is the strategy of reinterpreting the Laws using empirical evidence that is an obvious abject failure at OU.

If that strategy gets traction then it means the field can't even agree on what constitutes OU before it can hope to solve the mechanical problem of producing it.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 05:06:54 PM
There's ample empirical evidence even at this point proving that CoE can be violated.

It cannot be emphasized stronger that to prove violation of CoE it is not mandatory to demonstrate continuous production of excess energy, that is, it is not mandatory to demonstrate a self-sustaning device. Demonstrating discontinuous production of excess energy is as conclusive a way to prove CoE violation as the scientific method requires. This is extremely important to understand if you don't want to get discouraged at every step of the way towards building a perpetuum mobile. Now we know perpetuum mobile is possible and that's the most important stalwart basis of our pursuit. The rest, the physical building it, is only a matter of engineering skills and infrastructure.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 10:05:03 PM

There's ample empirical evidence even at this point proving that CoE can be violated.


It cannot be emphasized stronger that to prove violation of CoE it is not mandatory to demonstrate continuous production of excess energy, that is, it is not mandatory to demonstrate a self-sustaning device.


Demonstrating discontinuous production of excess energy is as conclusive a way to prove CoE violation as the scientific method requires. This is extremely important to understand if you don't want to get discouraged at every step of the way towards building a perpetuum mobile. Now we know perpetuum mobile is possible and that's the most important stalwart basis of our pursuit.


The rest, the physical building it, is only a matter of engineering skills and infrastructure.

Not so omnibus !

Case in point :

We all know how to create Ke [Energy of movement] with magnets - just have a linear array like a Smot, Gauss gun etc & as long as you place the ball in the field the ball will accelerate & gain a final velocity, Ke & momentum.

That result did not violate CoE or Thermodynamics - we did Joules of Work [F x D] to place the ball inside the attractive filed - thereafter the field potential accelerated the ball giving it a velocity & Ke.

So, exactly like a gravity field you must do Work to give a mass Potential which then provided it is free to move will acquire velocity & Ke [Joules of capacity to do Work] - the Force is the mass x acceleration the field provides - the Work able to be done capacity is the Force x Distance the ball moves etc etc etc.

It is hugely important to show OU via continuous production of excess Energy, that can either cover system losses &/or do external Work i.e. Output is greater than Input.

Showing a gain in velocity & Ke using linear magnets shows a discontinuous process, BUT it cannot restore the Potential & show excess Energy available to do external Work etc.

So, exactly as not accounting for the Work Done in raising a masses Potential in a gravity field, so is the partial budgeting approach of not accounting for the Energy Input into ANY system [including magnets] that hopes to be OU, completely erroneous logic.

The Smots & Gauss guns, Milkovich pendulums etc of this world are fascinating but not a single one AFAIK has managed to close the loop - in each & every case we are always told it is just a technical hitch, much as you keep propounding - well, it's not a technical problem that can be solved by mechanical aptitude, only a matter of applying of competent engineering skills & infrastructure as you've repeatedly said - it is a matter of understanding Thermodynamics & the Laws that filter down thru them to see the fallacy of the argument about "only a matter of a mechanical engineering solution".

The brand of soap box selling of partial truths you promote re:
Quote
Demonstrating discontinuous production of excess energy is as conclusive a way to prove CoE violation as the scientific method requires.
is disingenuous & deceiving to the researcher who should be armed with accurate information - it will be his epiphany that breaks the shackles of physics & lets him produce the first closed loop OU mechanical system, but that won't come from continuous disinformation & false direction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 10:10:17 PM
The problem is that you don't understand exactly how the devices mentioned by you violate CoE. This is obvious by the way you have explained why they don't violate CoE. Therefore, you cannot appeciate at all that to prove CoE violation, as has already been done definitively, demonstrating continuous motion is not at all necessary. Let alone that theoretical mechanics itself contains inherently violation of CoE in its very core, as I've already shown.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fletcher on February 09, 2011, 10:22:02 PM
The simple & only answer omnibus, is then close the loop with this excess Energy, to validate & prove your point !

No other discussion is required !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 09, 2011, 10:36:23 PM
The simple & only answer omnibus, is then close the loop with this excess Energy, to validate & prove your point !

No other discussion is required !

Like I said, that's an incorrect requirement if scientific method is to be honored.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 10, 2011, 12:13:41 PM
The simple & only answer omnibus, is then close the loop with this excess Energy, to validate & prove your point !

No other discussion is required !
Agreed. If it can't give us continious and infinite work without input energy, it is not OU. OU isnt a temporary working device which is depending on input energy all the time.
By not being able to explain the fact with quantum mathematics, doesnt prove it is OU. A practical experiment, which automaticly includes all necessary practical mathematics available, is all we need to confirm what is facts.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on February 15, 2011, 01:29:14 PM
This is very useful part of scientific papar LEONARDO DA VINCI GRAVITY MACHINE
- The legend, conspiracy of the silence and the hope - Veljko Milkovic

Comparison can also be made with a copy of Leonardo’s model
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A89EDdXawvM#t=8m30s where superiority of pendulum
was 600 times, or 60.000%.
Top accomplishments of contemporary technology concerning friction decrease
can be achieved by usage of ceramic bearings.

Comparison of Steel and Ceramic Bearings – Duration of Rotation
Little wheel of skateboard                                  (A1) Steel bearing.................5 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfamxrIQgU   (A2) Ceramic bearing..........31 seconds
Big wheel of the bike                                         (B1) Steel bearing.................8 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW7wKg6OSFg(B2) Ceramic bearing..........36 seconds

Advantage of pendulum in comparison with steel bearings is from 1350 (B1) till
3600 (A1) times, in percentage it s from 135.000 till 360.000%.

Advantage of pendulum in comparison with ceramic bearings is from 300 (B2) till
348 (A2) times, in percentage from 30.000 till 34.800%.

Similar advantages of the pendulum are achieved in transmission, various kinds
of rotors and flywheels, and on site www.veljkomilkovic.com there are more about
practical application, theoretical analysis, video documents, opinions, rewords etc.

Watch here...
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Leonardo_da_Vinci_Gravity_Machine.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on February 15, 2011, 03:02:12 PM
This guy is using the eccentric rotor idea in this simulation, and it looks like he may be onto something
 
 http://www.youtube.com/user/purelyprimitives
 
 Mechanical resonance pt 1 & 2
 
 Looks like an easy build also.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 15, 2011, 04:05:13 PM
Agreed. If it can't give us continious and infinite work without input energy, it is not OU. OU isnt a temporary working device which is depending on input energy all the time.
By not being able to explain the fact with quantum mathematics, doesnt prove it is OU. A practical experiment, which automaticly includes all necessary practical mathematics available, is all we need to confirm what is facts.

Vidar

The above is incorrect.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 15, 2011, 10:13:28 PM
The above is incorrect.
Jeeez, Omni, still kicking?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 15, 2011, 10:29:59 PM
Of course by just spamming as the element with the handles @spinn_MP exercises doesn't count as an argument. At least @exnihiloest is trying to come up with something that sounds like an argument, as ridiculous as it is.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: supersam on February 16, 2011, 03:55:32 AM
@omnibus
the point i think everyone is trying to make is, once you set the apparatice in motion, it will never return to the set state, that it was set in!!  nor will it overcome the other resistance factors that would make it, in other way overunity.

how can you possibly see it any other way??

keep the faith
sam
,
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Omnibus on February 16, 2011, 04:19:21 AM
@omnibus
the point i think everyone is trying to make is, once you set the apparatice in motion, it will never return to the set state, that it was set in!!  nor will it overcome the other resistance factors that would make it, in other way overunity.

how can you possibly see it any other way??

keep the faith
sam
,

You can see it differently when you do the actual calculations of the torque or observe the obeying of the lever rule. As I have shown, the overall torque of an OU gravity wheel is always negative at any position of the wheel. Easier still is to see that the wheel is an OU machine (when it really is, as in Sjack Abeling's case, for example) when you observe that the lever rule is persistently violated at every position of the wheel. Thus, the only obstacle which stands in the way of having a continuously working, self-sustaining gravity wheel, is to find a way, technically, to reduce friction below the above-mentioned inherent OU property of the wheel so the latter can show itself unobstructed. This is a purely engineering problem which has nothing to do with the question as to whether or not such OU wheel is possible. It is, as already proven.

On another note, to prove violation of CoE and to have practically usable excess energy ("energy out of nothing", that is) it is absolutely not necessary to have a continuously working gravity wheel. Periodical production of excess energy is equally as good and it has already been proven definitively that such excess energy can indeed be produced. The desperate push for continuous production of excess energy (repeating at every opportunity verbally that such machine is impossible) comes mainly from zealous activists and agents who are fighting a life battle to preserve the status quo (to keep the society convinced that it is impossible to produce "energy out of nothing") assisted by mindless opportunists who love to please the powers that be. That push is of purely psychological and political nature and has nothing to do with real science.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on February 18, 2011, 06:10:43 PM
It will be good to analyze the latest work Leonardo da Vinci Gravity Machine Veljko Milkovic. I ask  people who follow this Subject. Work is very good and thank to Mr Milkovic becouse he shared with us.
Regards to all who are in good mood and promote science as Mr Milkovic.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 19, 2011, 12:25:42 PM
After some time, here is a new video by Veljko Milkovic (source: veljkomilkovic.com e-mail newsletter)


Video: Pendulum eases pumping of water

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates a new design of his hand water pump with a pendulum.

Hand water pump with a pendulum is very simple solution for pumping water. It provides alleviation of work, because it is enough to move the pendulum occasionally with a little finger to pump the water, instead of large swings. Work is alleviated because easier, long-lasting and effortless use of the hand water pump has been enabled.
Input energy for starting the process of pumping, in form of occasional pushing of the pendulum, is much less than with typical hand pumps.
The advantage of this invention compared to present hand pump solutions are: less force to start the pump, less water consumption, both arms can be used to fetch the water...

The video link (YouTube HD, 03:08 min.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNdF8mTfu4g
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: spinn_MP on February 21, 2011, 01:49:43 PM
Sorry to say that, but where were you guys, in the early 2000, when Milković's stuff was discussed?

It's kind of a surprise, to see all the discussions now....

It was totally cleared up in the late 2004... Where were you, people?

So, any questions left?
I'm sure that "Academician" guy will explain that to you, soon.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on February 24, 2011, 04:22:53 PM
Sorry to say that, but where were you guys, in the early 2000, when Milković's stuff was discussed?

It's kind of a surprise, to see all the discussions now....

It was totally cleared up in the late 2004... Where were you, people?

So, any questions left?
I'm sure that "Academician" guy will explain that to you, soon.

I dont understand what is your problem?!!!
If you do not want to do something good, only criticize, let the others. Is now a bit clearer?
A long time ago, man could have been able to achieve the speed of light, or at least the one similar to it, if there were not people who obstructed the progress.
As people who who hindered the progress finished their "work", inventours and constructors now have a lot job to do to fight against the others who still continue to misuse the progress.
Live your live a little!!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on February 24, 2011, 05:06:48 PM
@spin-MP . Maybe you can help me . I am retired , disabled and very short of money .Can you tell me the going rate of pay for being a professional Nay Sayer , and where do I apply . Is it still the CIA? Thanking you in anticipation .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on February 24, 2011, 06:39:06 PM
Hey come on people, can't we just let this tread be quiet until something new happens?
People have a right to be skeptical about this machine, and actually has a good reason as well, even though that might sound weird coming from me...

There have been very much talk on this tread and not that much "proof". I have a feeling a lot of us though have tried to replicate it to an extent (including me), but got negative results and went on to something else. Yet still I am not convinced either way, as what I have done and seen cannot conclude 100%

So until we get more close to actual proofs, why don't show everybody the respect they deserve instead of attacking them? (I have been a part of that too...)
Julian
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fritz on February 24, 2011, 11:19:05 PM
The kinetic energy of a falling sandcorn can cause a collision with the power of megwatts for one attosecond if there is no structural damage nor deformation involved.
Some people think that OU relates to power - others think about energy.
who cares ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 08, 2011, 05:47:57 PM
Bedini Milkovic two stage oscillator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXw8CccTEyk

Mechanical Resonance Proof of Concept OCD Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73C44sX-xLs

A VIDEO MESSAGE FOR PESWIKI CONTRIBUTORS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ViuNY5SWac
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: woopy on March 08, 2011, 11:44:46 PM
Hi all

just 2 cents

and good luck at all

Laurent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-38WBsPcdyk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 11, 2011, 11:15:34 PM
Pendulum Power Panel Discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JX9jLnTSzk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: woopy on March 13, 2011, 12:44:52 AM

Hi Merg

business is buisiness

do not try to get any benefit for you ,from the business, unless your are  yourself  really really educated to this very difficult art of life

OK so

my update for tonight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rQ-MxmtQo8

and good luck at all :)

laurent.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 13, 2011, 11:50:04 PM
e-mail newsletter from veljkomilkovic.com:

Video: Power of the Pendulum -- Proof of Ultra-Efficiency?

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates a scientific experiment showing the advantage of using the pendulum for overcoming friction versus direct pushing.

The goal of the experiment is to demonstrate the advantage of using the pendulum for overcoming friction force of a weight in comparison with direct pushing of it.
The arising question is does this experiment proves over unity behavior of the system or not?

Experiment Description:

Device used in experiment consists of a stand and elastic pendulum.

Blocked pendulum with the rest of the system can be regarded as rigid body. Using energy passed by strikes of a piston instrument, whole system can pass the path of 5mm.

With the same invested energy, passed by the piston instrument, the pendulum will push whole system with its kinetic energy and device will pass 15 times longer path.
Further more some kinetic energy will stay unused in swinging pendulum.

The video link (YouTube HD, 05:38 min.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnetjttZIrk

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on March 14, 2011, 12:21:28 AM
Merg there is a problem; static friction is not taken into account.
I'd really wished Veljko would have spotted that...
Julian

Edit: But I'll admit, if his power measurement device is linear with respect to resistance, then static friction versus dynamic friction wouldn't matter.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Overunityguide on March 14, 2011, 12:32:42 AM
Hi all,

Maybe my new site about Centrifugal Force Overunity will help you out:
http://www.overunityguide.com

You can download my simulation files also from this website, so that you can try things out for your self...

Kind Regards, JdR
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 14, 2011, 12:16:20 PM
e-mail newsletter from veljkomilkovic.com:

Video: Power of the Pendulum -- Proof of Ultra-Efficiency?

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates a scientific experiment showing the advantage of using the pendulum for overcoming friction versus direct pushing.

The goal of the experiment is to demonstrate the advantage of using the pendulum for overcoming friction force of a weight in comparison with direct pushing of it.
The arising question is does this experiment proves over unity behavior of the system or not?

Experiment Description:

Device used in experiment consists of a stand and elastic pendulum.

Blocked pendulum with the rest of the system can be regarded as rigid body. Using energy passed by strikes of a piston instrument, whole system can pass the path of 5mm.

With the same invested energy, passed by the piston instrument, the pendulum will push whole system with its kinetic energy and device will pass 15 times longer path.
Further more some kinetic energy will stay unused in swinging pendulum.

The video link (YouTube HD, 05:38 min.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnetjttZIrk
He must distinguish between force alone, and the way the force are travelling - energy. In the first experiment the force are traveling only 1mm at the time. When the pendulum are released, he apples the same force over a much greater distance. So he applies much more energy in the last part of the experiment, and therfor the rig will move accordingly. The energy transformation from his hand are also highly inefficient, so it appears that he spends the same energy in both experiments.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 14, 2011, 06:48:44 PM
Merg there is a problem; static friction is not taken into account.

What is the static friction for you in this case?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: woopy on March 15, 2011, 12:15:54 AM
Hi all

2 more cents
 
in an icredible but very true world

gopd luck at all

Laurent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awci9aWLPhI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on March 15, 2011, 03:52:47 AM
Okey in order.
@Low-Q If I understood the video correctly, the device he uses to push the ball is not only a measurement device of force, it is a power device which measures the newton-meters. That should mean that no matter how he utilizes it, he will always have expended the same amount of energy when it is pushed all the way in, as he showed in both methods.

@Merg
As Low-Q pointed out, a huge difference in length moved is displayed between the two driving methods. This means that while the short path is struggling more than enough with only overcoming the static friction, the longer path is mainly concerned with the dynamic friction.

But yes, if he is using a good measurement device that describes the energy used accurately, unaffected by the radical change in resistance seen here, well then this is quite good proof.

It should though be stated that there is a slightly higher loss of energy in the form of vibration in the short-path demonstration. Other than that this is a good video.
Julian
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 15, 2011, 11:45:31 AM
I cannot see any good proof anywhere. I see it like pushing a car with the breaks on. And when the breaks are released, we have overunity?

The first experiment are highly inefficient. The second are more efficient. Take away the friction from the surface, and put on some wheels. Then you can test this again and see for how long the rig will roll with a locked pendulum versus a released one. My guess are that these two experiments will gain the same net acceleration and velocity - with low friction wheels on it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Nabo00o on March 15, 2011, 04:47:27 PM
I was going to post something different, but I see you are probably right.
The static friction is the main problem here, it is a brake which doesn't matter as much in the long path experiment.....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 18, 2011, 03:55:46 PM
milkovic Idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAA71WhkyaQ

Milkovic / Bedini lighting 12 LEDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVVXJfGItI

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 24, 2011, 03:18:06 PM
Bedini-Powered Milkovic Two-Stage Oscillator #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIvSlYoqnBM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 26, 2011, 05:13:31 PM
Bedini-Powered Milkovic Two-Stage Oscillator #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs0emzBITuM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s786CZkdoi0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on April 06, 2011, 05:56:39 PM
Hello people,

I recommend this video! Mr. Head argues and shows that with the same energy raises even greater weight!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMq53NPttUk&feature=related
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 12, 2011, 04:20:24 AM
related video...

GEC Sustainable Life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MTSsX4U4FU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on April 12, 2011, 07:53:09 AM
what about this idea, my design is simple but would it work? maybe, Maybe not, can't tell unless it is debugged by actual research and measurements.

when the Iron ball hits the Piezo plate it causes an electrical discharge to occur and sends the charge to the motor which cause the motor to momentarily rotate the pendulum in the opposite direction away from the Magnet. repeating the process over and over as the pendulum swings back for another strike on the piezo plate.

the piezo transducer plate should be of good size for best electrical discharge.

Also, I posted an interrupted coil version of the pendulum motor. when the Iron Ball strikes the Piezo Transducer plate an Electric Discharge occurs in the interrupter coil to cause the magnetic attraction to change, this allows the Iron Ball to escape the magnetic attraction of the Magnet.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 12, 2011, 04:14:01 PM
Pendulum Power, Free Energy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wDKK__v9Ss
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on April 13, 2011, 04:11:47 PM
I designed the Pendulum Motor to be more like a plausible perpetual clock motor. keeping it really simple as possible. no strings attached.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on April 13, 2011, 10:01:44 PM
Pendulum Motor version 3
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on April 13, 2011, 10:13:12 PM
the type of piezoelectric transducer is the flat type here. but larger in diameter.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zapjosh on April 15, 2011, 06:11:26 PM
Very one in the world has to see this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6gaN8gRs5A
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on April 16, 2011, 12:49:12 AM
the type of piezoelectric transducer is the flat type here. but larger in diameter.

Just imagine if this was our Piezoelectric Transducer, also, imagine one 50 foot in diameter. that would be so cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl46w3hN4J0&feature=related

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on April 19, 2011, 06:16:58 PM
I cannot see any good proof anywhere. I see it like pushing a car with the breaks on. And when the breaks are released, we have overunity?

The first experiment are highly inefficient. The second are more efficient. Take away the friction from the surface, and put on some wheels. Then you can test this again and see for how long the rig will roll with a locked pendulum versus a released one. My guess are that these two experiments will gain the same net acceleration and velocity - with low friction wheels on it.

Scientific and expert opinions and analyses on inventions and research...
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/MisljenjeEng.html

Peter Lindemann, D.Sc.
"...This certainly ranks as one of the most important discoveries in science in the last 300 years...

prof. dr. Velimir Abramovic
"...The double oscillator is also the best mechanical analogy of the alternating current, even better than Tesla's analogy...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 23, 2011, 11:03:03 PM
Chaos Pendulum Magnetic Wheels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJHkSEgS9yo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on April 24, 2011, 04:29:56 AM
The size of your piezoelectric transducer gong counts, breath on it funny and it produces usable power. a lot of power for the breath. size does matter here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on May 03, 2011, 05:46:15 PM
Pendulum Motor version 3

I Like it, it's good that we all work together to perfect this invention. Congratulations for the idea. Just continue to work  :)
Title: oscillating waterfall by use of collapsible bladder
Post by: uday79 on May 03, 2011, 07:47:24 PM
Thought there are some similarities there are more differences between classic hydraulic ram and present experiment especially the application of exploiting for hydroelectric power in manner illustrated.

Though in video water flowing from tap is shown it works same way if there is a reservoir at starting of the collapsible bladder and if small pipe is connected to it.

The most important point is that it enters at zero or negative head and works well at low velocity flows and therefore useful for hydroelectric power generation from small streams or rivers at waterfall areas and there is no requirement for constructing large dams/reservoirs for it to work. Hence it can be used as a very costeffective micro or pico hydroelectric plant in rural and hilly interiors where communications are difficult to establish. Once started the process goes on as long there is water continously flowing from above.

I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Buy-hkCAPQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on May 03, 2011, 10:14:07 PM
Hi Uday,

Welcome to the forum.

Wow! Great work. It is amazing the amount of power you are getting from the design. I noticed that the rubber bladder pulls in pretty strong after each pulse. Would it be possible to link two bladders together so that it creates a suction in a secondary bladder with a check valve? Maybe this would be enough to make the secondary bladder self pump the water into the system once it is initially started?

Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: uday79 on May 04, 2011, 11:17:02 AM
Hi Uday,

Welcome to the forum.

Wow! Great work. It is amazing the amount of power you are getting from the design. I noticed that the rubber bladder pulls in pretty strong after each pulse. Would it be possible to link two bladders together so that it creates a suction in a secondary bladder with a check valve? Maybe this would be enough to make the secondary bladder self pump the water into the system once it is initially started?

Thank you for sharing.

Thanks for your appreciation..
My first experiments were using sequence of two bladders or balloons, where i was hoping to simulate capacitance vessels of human circulation physiology. The upper balloon acts simply like reservoir chamber and distends passively whereas the lower one is where this dynamic phenomenon is observed.. And I also tried initially to connect both ends but it did not self pump for long time and whole thing stopped...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 11, 2011, 01:03:55 AM
from veljkomilkovic.com newsletter:


Dear friends,
 
there is a new scientific paper by Jovan Marjanovic, M.Sc. in Electrical Engineering, which represents one of the most important theoretical contributions to the physics of Veljko Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator:

Jovan Marjanovic -- The Secret of Free Energy from the Pendulum

In this work, the author for the first time has identified centrifugal force as a source of over unity work under some conditions and also calculated maximal efficiency quotients of the machine.

Problems which easy can undermine over unity behavior of machine were identified and solutions were proposed.
Influence of length of pendulum and critical angle on machine efficiency were clearly explained and mathematically supported.

The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 125KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Secret_of_Free_Energy_from_Pendulum.pdf


More info:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: rensseak on May 11, 2011, 07:51:39 AM
Is there already a closed loop system of this two stage oscillator?

Because he use it for pumping water he could also use it for generating compressed air. With a portion of this compressed air he can then keep going the pendulum via a pneumatic piston rod.

regards
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 26, 2011, 11:37:04 PM
...MagnaMoRo YouTube upadate:

Free Energy Centripetal Force
A demonstration of the extraction of hi energy centripetal force using a small input of energy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tvlvK0U3kg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 28, 2011, 06:49:13 PM
...YouTube babarlizia update:

Milkovic replication, first step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaRm_8R3y0k

I'm trying to build a working system. For now, the greater problem is to maintain the pendulum's oscillation until a useful elevation. The piston works with ten atmospheres.. too much, bad efficiency. Sorry for the bad quality of the video (photocamera) and for the bad English speaking :)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 28, 2011, 06:59:03 PM
...related video:

Magnetic Electric Generator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sivnp3VhcYY

Swinging pendulums generate electricity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 30, 2011, 12:26:34 AM
...YouTube babarlizia update:

Milkovic replication, second frame
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpOMUZ8fj58

Same configuration. On the longer arm of the system is applied a generator (12V cc) with the proper lamp.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Solomon111 on May 31, 2011, 06:38:11 PM
...YouTube babarlizia update:

Milkovic replication, second frame
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpOMUZ8fj58

Same configuration. On the longer arm of the system is applied a generator (12V cc) with the proper lamp.

The experiment is the measure of everything. Only in this way should be continued. The more evidence that this is the right thing.

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 10, 2011, 05:42:50 PM
...from veljkomilkovic.com e-newsletter:


Branisalv Serdar, M.Sc. in Mechanical Engineering, has conducted his own research and expertise of Veljko Milkovic's elastic string pendulum experiment:

Branislav Serdar -- Analysis of movement of a system with elastic pendulum
 
This paper analyzes the sliding friction and the rolling friction of a moving system, driven by oscillations of the pendulum with an elastic pendulum handle, which was mounted on the system.
The aim was to observe differences in the systems under the effect of impact forces (from plastic and steel calipers) on the metal ball, as well as to analyze and compare the results obtained.
 
The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 457KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Branislav_Serdar_Analysis_of_Movement_of_Elastic_Pendulum.pdf
 
+

accompanying video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1hvIoNn6I8

More info:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: jolylate on June 17, 2011, 02:31:25 PM

Hey all,

my questions are  - Whether this expertise is final proof of over unity? Or all should be reviewed?
Is your silence a sign of approval?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mdlarouche on June 24, 2011, 02:28:49 AM
Ok... Here's what I see happening with the Milkovic device.

Quite simply a lever with equal length sides will exert a force on the output side equal to that applied on the input side. Everybody knows that! Now imagine this for a moment... attach a steel ball of ten pounds to one side of the lever with, lets say a piece of aircraft cable with a ten thousand pound rating. Drop that weight from a height that will allow it to reach terminal velocity. When the weight brings the cable tight it pulls the pendulum down. The force due to acceleration is greater than simply what would be ten pounds of force. Now since the Milkovic device is using a rigid member and not a cable. Some of the energy from the falling mass is lost because it's rate of decent diminishes due to the the fact that it begins to rotate on it's axis.

The energy from the impact is there, we just don't observe it as a collision. It is what is known as an "inelastic collision". Ramond Head shows in a video, that with a lever in a 3.4 to one ratio and the long side being the work side, that the Milkovic device is still able to lift more on the long side than what is inputted on the short side. This is in contrast to the way a lever should work. It should actually output less.

The reason as I see it is because the force of ten pounds acting on a lever is additive with the force of the impact collision that we never really notice but is there. Without getting too crazy with a bunch of numbers, Imagine all the forces as static just for a moment.

Ten pounds of static force plus the force of the inelastic collision, minus the losses of the inelastic collision due to diminishment from the rotation of the pendulum's column is greater than ten pounds of static force.

This is why this device behaves the way it does as Raymond Head has showed. This device will self run as I see it with the proper mechanical configuration. Someone just needs to figure out how and I think I have it figured out as you will all soon see.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: jolylate on June 30, 2011, 04:56:52 PM
Head has done very much. And it should be valued.
We shouldnt forget physicist  Berett who in his book Energy Abundance wrote about positive results:
http://books.google.com/books?id=co13IL87yXMC&q=veljko+milkovic#v=onepage&q=Veljko%20Milkovic&f=false
Mr. Barrett writes about Veljko Milkovic pump with a pendulum.
You can read and the scientific and expert opinions and analyses on inventions and research, which Veljko Milkovic received in a written form during previous years...

Peter Lindemann, D.Sc.
"...This certainly ranks as one of the most important discoveries in science in the last 300 years... more "

prof. dr. Velimir Abramovic
"...The double oscillator is also the best mechanical analogy of the alternating current, even better than Tesla's analogy... more "

academician prof. dr. Bratislav Tosic
"...It is estimated that the input of gravity in the performance of biphase oscillator is around 80%...

And...
Branislav Serdar, Jovan Marjanovic, Prof. Nebojsa Simin, Ronald Pugh, Colin Gauld,...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 05, 2011, 05:31:01 PM
...latest from veljkomilkovic.com:

Towards the Birthday of Nikola Tesla

Tesla's Vision about Gravitational Machine Has Benn Accomplished

Nikola Tesla (1856-1943) has published a philosophical paper titled as “The Problem of Increasing Human Energy“ in “The Century“ journal  at year 1900.
Many could be surprised by a vision presented by Tesla, in the last paragraph in page 56, which ended in the first half of page 57 in the book:

It is possible, and even probable, that there will be, in time, other resources of energy opened up, of which we have no knowledge now. We may even find ways of applying forces such as magnetism or gravity for driving machinery without using any other means. Such realizations, though highly improbable, are not impossible. An example will best convey an idea of what we can hope to attain and what we can never attain. Imagine a disk of some homogeneous material turned perfectly true and arranged to turn in frictionless bearings on a horizontal shaft above the ground. This disk, being under the above conditions perfectly balanced, would rest in any position. Now, it is possible that we may learn how to make such a disk rotate continuously and perform work by the force of gravity without any further effort on our part; but it is perfectly impossible for the disk to turn and to do work without any force from the outside. If it could do so, it would be what is designated scientifically as a "perpetuum mobile," a machine creating its own motive power. To make the disk rotate by the force of gravity we have only to invent a screen against this force. By such a screen we could prevent this force from acting on one half of the disk, and the rotation of the latter would follow. At least, we cannot deny such a possibility until we know exactly the nature of the force of gravity. Suppose that this force were due to a movement comparable to that of a stream of air passing from above toward the center of the earth. The effect of such a stream upon both halves of the disk would be equal, and the latter would not rotate ordinarily; but if one half should be guarded by a plate arresting the movement, then it would turn.

However, almost 100 years after the above paper was published, many surprises were happening and many replicas and analysis were made in the world about gravitational machine with a driving pendulum!

more:

academician Veljko Milkovic - Tesla's Vision about Gravitational Machine Has Benn Accomplished
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Tesla_vision_about_gravitational_machine.pdf

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: jolylate on July 10, 2011, 07:04:09 PM
Hi all!
 It would be interesting to examine whether the pendulum is more effective than the wheel, as stated in the previous paper?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 10, 2011, 07:57:34 PM
Pendulum Mashine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu0M5SrRTwk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 22, 2011, 03:20:29 PM
Pendulum Work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLqfd6cIvF8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 22, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
summer step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSqRzO7n_K4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 29, 2011, 06:31:48 PM
...latest from veljkomilkovic.com e-newsletter:

There is a new paper written by academician Veljko Milkovic:


Oscillations More Efficient Than Rotation

Energetic Superiority of a Pendulum Versus a Wheel in Stationary Machines

The wheel is probably the most important invention of all times, present in almost every machine, and contemporary constructors still relay on all its versions…
According to present findings the first pottery wheel was made in Mesopotamia 5,500 years ago. A wheel with spokes was found 4,000 years ago and in the course of the time there will be countless number of fanciful constructions similar to the wheel or wheels. The flywheel, i.e. massive wheel, is used for stabilization and accumulation of mechanical energy, and belts and gears for transmission...
Similar form is accepted as the best solution, widely found in motive devices as turbines in electric power plants.

The shape of the wheel should not be accepted as the best solution because oscillations of a pendulum lasts much more time, and we will examine it next...

more:

academician Veljko Milkovic -- Oscillations More Efficient Than Rotation
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Oscillations_More_Efficient_Than_Rotation.pdf

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 19, 2011, 03:21:23 PM
latest from veljkomilkovic.com:

New portal: The World of Pendulum Power

Dear friends,
 
we are very proud to inform you that there is a new specialized web presentation dedicated to the technology of the two-stage oscillator.
 
Now you can find all information in one place; videos, patents, theories, experiments... as well as the new graphic presentation of the potential of practical application.
 
Welcome to...
 
The World of Pendulum Power - Veljko Milkovic's Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator - Official presentation
http://www.pendulum-lever.com

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 01, 2011, 02:54:49 AM
Two Stage Oscillator Simplified
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IvsFcyViUI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on October 03, 2011, 09:31:12 AM
Two Stage Oscillator Simplified
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IvsFcyViUI
Please see my two recent notes on youtube (from jallaguri).

I can summarize here:
The pendulum is only using energy to move MASS up and down. Mass will suffer from inertia which allways apply forces that is counteracting the pendulum. The less the mass is, the less energy is required to run the pendulum.
However, load through friction of any kind, pure energy, has no mass at all. So if you keep the mass in the "piston" down to an absolute minimum, a light weight aluminum coil, you will possibly be able to produce excess energy - WITHOUT violating thermodynamic laws.

Because the coil is very light, it can still be located within a strong magnetic field that consists of heavy duty magnets, like a loudspeaker driver. Since the magnets are fixed, and do not move, you have only the light coil that travels up and down. This coil should be able to produce more energy than it takes to lift the weight of the coil itself. If you load the coil, the distance it travels will also go down, but it will still require the same amount of input energy to run the pendulum. Heavier pendulums does not require more energy to sustain, so then you can increase the stroke of the coil - without adding energy to sustain the pendulum.

A similar design with a rotating disc that is out of balance, could replace the pendulum. Just make sure you only have vertical movement of the coil. With a rotating disc, you can just increase RPM, and keep the design smaller. However, you cannot harness energy from rotation itself - ONLY the vertical viberations. These viberations is perpendicular to rotation, and should not affect the energy to maintain rotation.

EDIT: I'm not sure if the rotating disc will have the same effect as the pendulum - I have a feeling it should.

I think you got something here!

Again, good luck!

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on October 03, 2011, 10:24:11 PM
I tested this setup in a similar way using a rubberband attached to a cotton thread. As weight I used a donut speaker magnet.

The rubber band clearly stretches out when the weight reach the bottom. However, the pendulum loose a great deal of kinetic energy when bouncing like this. I think the reason is the rubber band isn't acting like a spring. The losses are high, so when the weight increase the radius, the counter Coriolis force isn't compensated after the weight has passed the bottom.

I can clearly see that the rubber band is a bad choice of "spring load". It looses its ability to fully recover right away after it has been fully streched, and that will cause the weight to follow a path which is not perfect.

I compared with an unstretchable thread, and then the pendulum continued to swing for much longer.

I will try with a metal spring next time.

To be continued.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on October 04, 2011, 05:14:52 PM
I did some test with a steel blade spring, actually three layers of them.

There is some friction between the blades which prevent the springs to work perfectly, but the result is much more promising.

I used an angle as reference point from where the pendulum dropped. And second reference with smaller angle. I measured the time for the pendulum to reach the second narrower angle.

Length of the pendulum: 200mm + ring magnet.
Magnet weight: 750g
Cycle time: 1s (regardless of situation)
Average deflecting of the spring: 5mm peak to peak
Average swing distance: 250mm (Started at 400mm, ended at 100mm
Start angle 60 degrees (initial swing angle approx 120 degrees)
Finish swing angle approx 30 degrees

I repeated the experiment 3 times in each two modes. The modes is 1. Spring loaded, and 2. Fixed.

Fixed pendulum: Average swing time was about 4 minutes, or 240 cycles.
Spring loaded pendulum: Average swing time was about 3.5 minutes, or 210 cycles.


Taking the non-perfect spring assambly into account I would probably get closeer to 4 minutes in spring loaded mode.

I will not yet assume it would be possible to harness excess energy from the bounce in spring loaded mode, but sings of it points in that direction.

I will do more test with even more ideal springs.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 09, 2011, 02:46:54 AM
pumping a swing PT.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTbeawIkDeo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 25, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
Veljko Milkovic - Pendulum - 3DSMAX Reactor Simulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSZNV26IS9Y
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 26, 2011, 02:43:05 PM
We need here something big like this pendulum :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92SPXE4HIzw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 20, 2011, 07:44:32 PM
Replica from Hungary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAUkEHPjuZA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 20, 2011, 08:48:40 PM
Best idea I've heard in a while is to extract energy from the downward swing of the second stage.  Can it press down on something, do goo work, and have it cost less than the input?
IMO with some 8 y/o level engineering, just some ball bearing rolling over tracks, this could be tested.
I'm saying even that won't work, as the downward move of the 2nd stage is also there to keep the 1st stage going. Take out one ball bearing worth of anergy, and you'll need at least that to keep the thing oscillating.
Title: Device can be loaded
Post by: Machi on November 23, 2011, 11:54:22 AM

If the pendulum-lever system has no load, the pendulum can oscillate and chaotic, and considerable energy is dissipated.
 Certainly,  rule is valid for two-stage oscillator. The more strain output, and require lower inputs.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on November 23, 2011, 07:33:01 PM
It has been several years now since the release of info on the 2 stage oscillator . There have been numerous attempts to prove that it is overunity , some quite convincing and others less so . Some attempts show a COP of more than 2 . And yet nobody has succeeded in closing the loop . The main problem seems to be phasing . This could be solved in theory by storing output energy before feeding it back , but this will inevitably involve conversion losses . These losses do not need to be very great before the system falls below unity . RHEAD 100 did some great work . Has anyone heard from him in the last 6 months ?  If looping proves to be impossible for now , then the best use is as an energy amplifier for human powered machines .Milkovich demonstrates this in his water pump , but how many have been sold and are in daily use ? By using an unbalanced constantly rotated flywheel instead of the pendulum , posssibly we could use it to help power a bicycle . Remember that globally , more people rely on bikes than cars .
         One posibilty for looping would be to store energy in a large clock spring . The great thing about a spring is that you can intermittently wind one end whilst taking energy from the other end . Any comments would be most welcome .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on November 23, 2011, 11:50:31 PM
Hi All,

This is just something I've been "toying"  :D with trying to combine a lever and pendulum. Small motor on top shifts a weight which gets the heavy mass (diametric magnet) swinging like a pendulum. Powered by a 1500F ultracap. This design is not OU the pulse is too short and intermittent. It does slow down the discharge of the cap though. I may rip it down and rebuild a new design.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr0KyMqMZtc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 25, 2011, 03:39:26 PM
It has been several years now since the release of info on the 2 stage oscillator . There have been numerous attempts to prove that it is overunity , some quite convincing and others less so . Some attempts show a COP of more than 2 . And yet nobody has succeeded in closing the loop . The main problem seems to be phasing . This could be solved in theory by storing output energy before feeding it back , but this will inevitably involve conversion losses . These losses do not need to be very great before the system falls below unity . RHEAD 100 did some great work . Has anyone heard from him in the last 6 months ?  If looping proves to be impossible for now , then the best use is as an energy amplifier for human powered machines .Milkovich demonstrates this in his water pump , but how many have been sold and are in daily use ? By using an unbalanced constantly rotated flywheel instead of the pendulum , posssibly we could use it to help power a bicycle . Remember that globally , more people rely on bikes than cars .
         One posibilty for looping would be to store energy in a large clock spring . The great thing about a spring is that you can intermittently wind one end whilst taking energy from the other end . Any comments would be most welcome .
Which was the most convincing for you?
 
I think calling it a multiplier is even too much at this stage of verification.
Perhaps it's a transformer and capcitor more than amplifier. Still, flywheels are better at this as far as I know.
 
I was most impressed by the effortless water pumping. To me it seems like the the trick here was overcoming the stiction in the pumping mechanism. The 2SO converts a long, gentle push into spikey pull.
The fact that Mr. Hand is raised before tapping the first stage may be something that many overlook. Mr. Arm doesn't get tired from the pushing down, gravity does that. Raising is where Mr. Arm is puts in energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 25, 2011, 03:44:56 PM
Which was the most convincing for you?
 
I think calling it a multiplier is even too much at this stage of verification.
Perhaps it's a transformer and capcitor more than amplifier. Still, flywheels are better at this as far as I know.
 
I was most impressed by the effortless water pumping. To me it seems like the the trick here was overcoming the stiction in the pumping mechanism. The 2SO converts a long, gentle push into spikey pull.
The fact that Mr. Hand is raised before tapping the first stage may be something that many overlook. Mr. Arm doesn't get tired from the pushing down, gravity does that. Raising is where Mr. Arm is puts in energy.

  Jan,
 I think what I posted to Andrea is the solution everyone has over looked.
He has been working on it himself. It allows a secondary weight to momentarily increase the potential of the main weight on the pendulum. And as it cycles, it can be utilized for this purpose.

                                                                                   Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on November 25, 2011, 04:59:41 PM
@Johnny874 . please show a link [ or a reply number if its in this thread ] to the solution that everyone overlooked .
 @Cloxxki . Forget about Mr Arm and Mr Hand . Look at the youtube chanel of Rhead100 . He shows a 2so powered by a falling weight . The load is a heavier weight being lifted . He claims 80 inch pounds of input gives 2400 inch pounds on the output . Not an amplifier? This is the demo I found most convincing .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 25, 2011, 06:18:18 PM
@Johnny874 . please show a link [ or a reply number if its in this thread ] to the solution that everyone overlooked .
 @Cloxxki . Forget about Mr Arm and Mr Hand . Look at the youtube chanel of Rhead100 . He shows a 2so powered by a falling weight . The load is a heavier weight being lifted . He claims 80 inch pounds of input gives 2400 inch pounds on the output . Not an amplifier? This is the demo I found most convincing .

    Neptune,
 Here is a link to the thread; http://www.overunity.com/11728/a-pendulum-idea/
A video showing the basic way a second weight could move;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilsB_KtTSAU
 Andrea's work; http://www.youtube.com/user/babarlizia#p/a/u/0/lSqRzO7n_K4
  The principle behind the second weight is when it's line slips off the cog, the weight moves outward on the same shaft the main weight is one. This would increase the velocity of the main weight. as it swings. This is because the line to the second weight moves around the cog attached to the fulcrum (taking a longer path), it conserves momentum. The pictures in the thread hopefully clarifies how they might work together.
 This should allow the main weight (hopefully) to swing a little higher.
                                                                                  Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on November 25, 2011, 07:48:25 PM
@Johnny874 . Many thanks for the links . Fascinating stuff . I need to study this . As regards the 2SO . In order to loop it , on a small scale , I think clockwork could be the answer . Imagine an axle . The axle is fixed and can not rotate . It is supported at its ends . Near each end is mounted a disc which can rotate on bearings . Between the discs is a strong clock spring . The outer end of the spring is fixed to one disc and the inner end to the other . One disc is driven by the output through a linkage . A ratchet prevents it unwinding . The other disk drives the escapement which drives the pendulum . If , as I suspect , the output lever tends to overwind the spring , this will just temporarily stall the lever movement for a few swings of the pendulum . Clockwork is quite efficient , and if the 2SO is as efficient as claimed , this idea stands a good chance .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 26, 2011, 12:13:54 AM
@Johnny874 . Many thanks for the links . Fascinating stuff . I need to study this . As regards the 2SO . In order to loop it , on a small scale , I think clockwork could be the answer . Imagine an axle . The axle is fixed and can not rotate . It is supported at its ends . Near each end is mounted a disc which can rotate on bearings . Between the discs is a strong clock spring . The outer end of the spring is fixed to one disc and the inner end to the other . One disc is driven by the output through a linkage . A ratchet prevents it unwinding . The other disk drives the escapement which drives the pendulum . If , as I suspect , the output lever tends to overwind the spring , this will just temporarily stall the lever movement for a few swings of the pendulum . Clockwork is quite efficient , and if the 2SO is as efficient as claimed , this idea stands a good chance .

  Hi Neptune,
 Thank you for your kind words.
 Your thoughts on a spring are interesting and in some ways, can help to store energy.
This is important. After all, stored energy can be transferred.
 With what I have thought of, I now understand why it would fail. The inertia in the secondary weight would not be cancelled out by the secondary or top fulcrum.
 By understanding this, the movement of the fulcrum can easily be modified so that the top fulcrum cancels the inertia of the secondary weight. And once this energy is conserved, then we can ask how we can transfer it's potential and by what means. All these things are equally important.
 I am hopefully Andrea is watching this and considering if it is something he would be interested in attempting.
 
                                                                          Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 26, 2011, 05:05:30 PM
  @All,
 What I posted in the other thread might work. The adjustment that would need to be made is to have the bottom of the cog near the center of the primary fulcrum.
 If something like this can work, the extra energy will allow the pendul to swing higher where it will develop more force. As an example, if a pendulum swings from 30 degrees before bottom center to 30 degrees after, the force it can develop is 1/2 it's mass. If the pendulum can swing to 45 degrees, then the force it can develop is 70% of it's weight, an increase of about 40%.
 And it's useable power may be for a few degrees of swing where it's torque can compress a spring as Neptune suggested. Even a spiral wound spring like in a clock would work. Then it's energy could be released in a controlled fashion until the pendulum swings to the other side and once again drops down. This would allow for a some what constant release of energy from the device. 
 What I like about this is by limiting the pendulum for a few degrees, this could still allow the secondary weight to maintain the pendulum's  swing height. And then you would have a constant source of power that is consistent.
 
                                                                                                                                          Johnny
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 28, 2011, 01:26:56 PM
   @All,
  I've thought this through and a pendulum can fit some of Bessler's clues.
Some examples are they get their force from swinging, as one weight falls, another is lifted, The weights work in pairs.
 In one of my favorite Bessler drawings, it shows a pendulum in front of a wheel. But who would think Bessler would have used the mechanics of a  pendulum clock to transfer the energy of a pendulum to the wheel hiding it's inner workings.
 Unless you guys like discussing specific things like how a pendulum can use springs to control the efficiency of a weight's movement, this would probably bore you.
 
                                                                                              Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 28, 2011, 03:17:33 PM
Jim, once again my cognitive skills proof to be lacking to keep up with you.
 
Could you put in layman's terms where exactly a gain would be extracted? I just don't see it.
Remember that when you increase radius to get a higher velocity, you'll need more input also. In the form of height or torque. It only works when the energy is there to be extracted, and it's never for free.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 28, 2011, 05:48:37 PM
Jim, once again my cognitive skills proof to be lacking to keep up with you.
 
Could you put in layman's terms where exactly a gain would be extracted? I just don't see it.
Remember that when you increase radius to get a higher velocity, you'll need more input also. In the form of height or torque. It only works when the energy is there to be extracted, and it's never for free.

  Hi Cloxxki,
 It might be that I have more time for this than you do.
 I think of gravity power as alternative energy.
  The picture is of Bessler's 2nd wheel at Kassel. What is unique about it is the relation the weight has with the pendulum and the wheel. With the axis of the wheel, it is at 45 degrees and with the pendulum it is 22.5 degrees.
 If 2 weights are used, their force will need to be calculated where they are swinging from. The stress on the lines supporting them is not important.
 The picture shows the weights having swung past bottom center. When they started swinging, they were together. As the top weight is lifted, momentum is conserved. This is where free energy would come from. Springs help by over coming some of the friction of the top weight being lifted. Bessler did not have bearings to reduce friction. Also, if the rod the weight is moving on is always tilted toward the point it is swinging from, this would also reduce drag. Springs would help to reduce this effect.
 What is unique about this is that if you suspend something, it can still have the same force laterally. With a pendulum, if it's weight has a mass of 5 kilograms, at an angle of 30 degrees from it's fulcrum, it has a lateral force of 2.5 kilograms.
 I hope this helps.
 
                                                                              Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 28, 2011, 05:58:24 PM
  Hi Cloxxki,
 You did ask specifically where the free energy comes from.
I don't think I explained it very well.
 When 2 weights swing from 30 degrees as an example, if the top weight
is not suspended from it's fulcrum, but from the fulcrum of the lower weight,
it's force will calculated from the lower axle.
 As the 2 weights swing and the top weight starts to swing from it's axis, then it
will be calculated from a higher point of rotation. And yet both the top and bottom weights would have the initial acceleration of the lower fulcrum.
 I am glad you asked, other wise I might not have thought of this specific reason.
 Now in considering that, a small cog placed above the main fulcrum might be the correct answer. Pretty much what Bessler shows in his drawing.
 
                                                                             Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 28, 2011, 08:08:22 PM
  @All,
 Here is the math diagrammed. I hope it helps.
And as Neptune mentioned, springs can help. This is because they can store energy.
This would allow the energy to be used for rotating the wheel and for helping to maintain
the perpetuality of the pendulums.
 If a weight swings from A to B, if more than one fulcrum is used, it will have more than one value.
If swinging from 2, then initially, a 5kg weight will have 1 kg of extra energy. This energy can be used to
compress a spring which can store it.
 For a 5 kg weight to swing to point B, by swinging from fulcrum 1, it will use 40% less energy. This would allow for
the stored energy in the spring to both finish the pendulum's movement and rotate a wheel.
 And if more than one pendulum is used, they can swing in opposition to each other. In pendulum clocks, pendulums
slow the rotation of the drum that powers the clock. The drum has a line wrapped around it which a weight is suspended from.
Thought I would mention this as the pendulum controls the rotation while swinging in either direction.
 I'm not sure if such a wheel could do much work, but Bessler did say his wheels sounded differently because they used different principles.
 
                                                                                                             Jim
 
edited to modify pic
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 29, 2011, 12:59:48 AM
 
   @All,
  Possibly the simplest way to test an idea such as this is by using flywheels, one on each side of the fulcrum.
 It could release the pendulum at 30 degrees. This would mean that torque would cause the flywheel to accelerate. After this, the pendulum could swing from a higher fulcrum.
 With 2 weights, when the top weight is at bottom center, it would be at it's highest point relative to the lower weight's swing. If it stays in this position, then it might recieve the necessary lift so it can be reset and help rotate the flywheels. This would mean that the flywheels would need a ring with a large diameter. It would need to transmit power from the weights on the fulcrum to the flywheels. As such, a wheel could act as a flywheel.
 If so, then it would be a simple system capable of delivering useable power.
 It's odd thinking about it, but with only one weight on the pendulum, it might not work. Just have the shorter pendulum supported on both sides by the axles and the top fulcrum by an over head frame work. Think of a swing. Yep, think it will work just fine. And Cloxxki, one day we will have a beer  :-) Figure somethin' good otta come out of all this.
 
                                                                            Jim
 
  edited to add; it could be as simple as one weight chasing the other.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 29, 2011, 01:54:32 PM
OK, I am slowly getting what you're on to here.
 
I see 2 weights, one with longer rod than the other, making its period longer, and height gain/los per quarter period smaller.
 
Small side step to help visualize the powers in play.
For human transportation, it's all about getting getting from A to B, mostly horizontal usually. Like the A and B here.
The cost of transport is mostly dependent on the speed you're looking for. Since acceleration is expensive, friction at speed ramps up badly, and decelleration is barely really giving any useful energy back.
If you build a low-friction vehicle with great mass to air friction ratio (freight train), taking a deep dive at the start of the journey, takes up great input from gravity, uses is to bridge the lion share of the distance, and then gravity becomes a cost to arrive back at (sea) level at B.
If the train rides a maglev track in a vacume, transport from A to B is free of charge, and super fast. Much like a 100 mile long pendulum from a 70mile high up fulcrum. http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/pendulum (http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/pendulum)
Period is less than a quarter of an hour, angle a bit over 46º. Fuzzy math, but a 140 mile single swing in 7 minutes.
Huge energy at the bottom, but what to do with that energy going 1000m/s horizontally? You need it all to reach the height of A-B again. Even if at the bottom you rod turns out to be a rope that hits a pin a A-B height, only period is shortened, distance is shortened, but no height gain is reached.
 
So what exactly is going to give the gain, in height, or at least useful work?
 
If you can make me understand the principle you're on to, you can build it and make it work :-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 29, 2011, 04:01:45 PM
OK, I am slowly getting what you're on to here.
 
I see 2 weights, one with longer rod than the other, making its period longer, and height gain/los per quarter period smaller.
 
Small side step to help visualize the powers in play.
For human transportation, it's all about getting getting from A to B, mostly horizontal usually. Like the A and B here.
The cost of transport is mostly dependent on the speed you're looking for. Since acceleration is expensive, friction at speed ramps up badly, and decelleration is barely really giving any useful energy back.
If you build a low-friction vehicle with great mass to air friction ratio (freight train), taking a deep dive at the start of the journey, takes up great input from gravity, uses is to bridge the lion share of the distance, and then gravity becomes a cost to arrive back at (sea) level at B.
If the train rides a maglev track in a vacume, transport from A to B is free of charge, and super fast. Much like a 100 mile long pendulum from a 70mile high up fulcrum. http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/pendulum (http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/pendulum)
Period is less than a quarter of an hour, angle a bit over 46º. Fuzzy math, but a 140 mile single swing in 7 minutes.
Huge energy at the bottom, but what to do with that energy going 1000m/s horizontally? You need it all to reach the height of A-B again. Even if at the bottom you rod turns out to be a rope that hits a pin a A-B height, only period is shortened, distance is shortened, but no height gain is reached.
 
So what exactly is going to give the gain, in height, or at least useful work?
 
If you can make me understand the principle you're on to, you can build it and make it work :-)

    Hi Cloxxki,
 I have simplified the design. Something based entirely on torque.
It has 2 moving parts, both weights. The 90 degree lever we won't worry about.
Why you ask ? The lever is fixed at 90 degrees and transmits force at a 1:1 ratio.
 How it works is weight A when it is at axle level will be in it's outer most position.
Weight B will be as low as it possibly can hang. Since weight A is further from the
center line than weight B, weight A will start dropping. As it does this, weight B
would slowly move closer to center. It's average resistence would be less than the
average torque generated by weight A.
 This idea would rotate 90 degrees in one direction, then 90 degrees in the opposite
direction. What allows this to happen is the cog in my video. It would allow the line
to release from the cog and then the weight could roll outward. one can be used in each
direction. While I can not gaurantee this will work, it does have potential. After this, the
ideas get more complex for obvious reasons. And there is some math to show over balance.
it's 2R*Pi/4-2R=x
 If R=1, then;  2*1*3.14/4-2=x
                            2*3.14/4-2=x
                                 6.28/4-2=x
                                   1.57-2= -.43
  This would mean that if 1 were 1 inch or 1 cm (radius of the cog), that the over balance would be .43cm's or inches.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilsB_KtTSAU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilsB_KtTSAU)
@AB Hammer, please remember that you have frequently posted that as a private builder you can not share information with other individuals. I think rlortie is in your build group. Sorry you two  :-(
 
                                                                                                    Jim
 edited to add; the pivot would be centered between the two cogs  :-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 29, 2011, 04:50:27 PM
As usual I am only able to comprehend a fraction :-)
 
Perhaps this remark is relevant?
Notice that B's vertical position above it's cross with the 45º centerline is greater than A's position below it.
Although both are seperated by 45º, one (A) approaches it horizontally, the other (B) vertically.
The COM of A+B might lie higher than A's cross with the centerline, depending on how much shorter B's distance from the axis is.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 30, 2011, 12:51:25 AM
As usual I am only able to comprehend a fraction :-)
 
Perhaps this remark is relevant?
Notice that B's vertical position above it's cross with the 45º centerline is greater than A's position below it.
Although both are seperated by 45º, one (A) approaches it horizontally, the other (B) vertically.
The COM of A+B might lie higher than A's cross with the centerline, depending on how much shorter B's distance from the axis is.

   Cloxxki,
  Normally I would agree with you. Considerations for torque are a little different.
 Because A is able to accelerate for 45 degrees of rotation, it's momentum will help it to maintain the greater potential until B is lifted to it's desired position. That is, if it works  :-)
 I'm not sure, but a trebuchet might use a similar principle.
 
  I did make a mistake on the math. I should have calculated for 1R(adius). This would mean  multiplying the radius by .57 will give the distance the weight being lifted will move towards center. By having the cogs on the same side as the weights, it allows for best initial acceleration.
 
                                                                           Jim
 
edited to add; A few years ago, I was working on a 4 weighted wheel. While trying different things, I tried 2 weights.
                   The rotation was close to 90 degrees. I was very surprised.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 30, 2011, 08:35:40 PM
   A simple way to have 2 levers in a repeating behavior.
  The picture shows the line from the weight moving in a straight line to the cog.
This is to reduce friction. By having a line tethered to the arm the weight is on and wrapping around the axle of the weight, the weight will roll when it's line is pulled. Mimimum friction.
 If as the 2nd drawing shows, the line pulling on the weight is tethered behind the direction the weight is moving, more resistence. This is because the weight will exert extra force on the lever when it is being lifted.
 As pendulms swing, their motions are very efficient. If a lift equal to the drop of the lever falling happens, then perpetuality can happen. It is not lifting higher but in repeating the motion.
 
                                                                                   Jim
 
  Alan, if you and Ralph want, you guys can build what I post. I'm not you guys  :-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 30, 2011, 08:42:03 PM
What does angle have to with it? When a weight is allowed to go from a starting position to a lower one, the height difference and mass will determin the energy open to be converted. It can't do any work without immediately having it subtracted in full. Nice in practical applications is that you can get a lateral displacement at no charge at all, but as you know, a longer lever doesn't give more energy. More lever, less angle, same result.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on November 30, 2011, 08:45:00 PM
  This is how a pendulum can swing in perpetuality. It's based on children playing in a playground. It has been discussed before in this forum. Certain details were missed.
 When a child swings on a swing, they lean back. This shifts the weight on the main fulcrum (B). As such, the swing moves forward. And when it slows or stops, they sit upright and the swing reverses direction. Don't tell this to scientists, they've over looked what children have known. It's a secret  :-D
 And when they get their swings moving the way they like, often higher than atributed to the net input of force which is ZERO, some interesting things can be observed.
 When they lean back, their arms create 2 points with the main fulcrum, or if a solid line is represented, it pivots. As they swing, they start moving upright, fulcrum A. And when they finish their ascent, they stay upright while swinging backwards. When they stop, they lean back again rising even more on the opposite side unless they go to high, then the chains become slack.
 A ratchet type mechanism can move the weight A to it's outward position on the downward swing. And with brown representing flexible lines, the drawing shows how what a child knows might be able to be replicated by adults.
 And in mechanics, on the backward swing, the weights A & B will move together (hopefully) and if fulcrum B carries both weights, it is okay.
 Initially, on the downward swing, the line for fulcrum A would need to be slack. this would allow for torque or what it is those kids know to work, any way, hopefully work for adults.
 
                                                                                  Jim
 
edited to add; Hope every one enjoys the coming Holidays  !!!  Au revoir, do sveedania, etc.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 02, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
  @All,
 The basic idea is if you have a weight at  the bottom of a line, like on a swing, if another weight leans back,
it changes the center of gravity and pushes weight B forward. When weight A is lifted, it swings as a part of B.
If it is a little forward, then it helps to push weight B backwards. With something like this, it's start position would be at the top of it's swing in it's backward direction.
 By having a tab move into it's holder, weight A can pass it and when it swings down, can be reset.

                                                                                                              Jim                           
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on December 03, 2011, 02:58:35 PM
  @All,
 The basic idea is if you have a weight at  the bottom of a line, like on a swing, if another weight leans back,
it changes the center of gravity and pushes weight B forward. When weight A is lifted, it swings as a part of B.
If it is a little forward, then it helps to push weight B backwards. With something like this, it's start position would be at the top of it's swing in it's backward direction.
 By having a tab move into it's holder, weight A can pass it and when it swings down, can be reset.

                                                                                                              Jim                         

Jim

 But doesn't the second cable of the swing have a pull back on the whole system that created a negative effect?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 03, 2011, 05:04:22 PM
Jim

 But doesn't the second cable of the swing have a pull back on the whole system that created a negative effect?

   Alan,
 When weights A and B start their downward swing, weight B would be supporting weight A.
This would give them both the same momentum. When fulcrum A starts lifting weight A, weight A will have a shorter path to follow than weight B does. This would cause weight A to be pushing weight B.
 As far as pendulums and swings go, weight B does not need to move at the ends of it's pendulum. I showed this as part of the mechanics children use.
 
                                                                       Jim
 
edited to add attachment.
edit; it might just be that when fulcrum A starts lifting weight A that weights A and b have the same distance to travel. If so, then the energy developed when weight B is supporting weight A is the extra impetus into the system which would allow it to be a dynamic self perpetuating pendulum. A tribute to their efficiency.
 A part of the reason is that weight A would be dropping more than it's own path allows for.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 03, 2011, 09:01:59 PM
  @All,
 This might simplify the idea. The pivot on fulcrum B can have weight C.
It's mass can equal A + B.
 If weight A has an antennae (for lack of a better term), a tab (pictured, like used on an umbrella) can restrict the downward movement of weight A. It slowly moves outward.
 It's potential would be relized by weights C & B. Then on the follow through (after bottom center), as weight B drops, it accelerates weight A, just slightly. This would align all 3 weights for the return swing.
 The nice part about weight C is that on the follow through, it's inertia would help move weights A & C. This would require weights A & B pivoting at weight C.
 Who knows, fulcrum A might not even be needed. Still, if used could make operation of the device simpler.
 
                                                                               Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on December 05, 2011, 02:56:27 AM

   Alan,
 When weights A and B start their downward swing, weight B would be supporting weight A.
This would give them both the same momentum. When fulcrum A starts lifting weight A, weight A will have a shorter path to follow than weight B does. This would cause weight A to be pushing weight B.
 As far as pendulums and swings go, weight B does not need to move at the ends of it's pendulum. I showed this as part of the mechanics children use.
 
                                                                       Jim
 
edited to add attachment.
edit; it might just be that when fulcrum A starts lifting weight A that weights A and b have the same distance to travel. If so, then the energy developed when weight B is supporting weight A is the extra impetus into the system which would allow it to be a dynamic self perpetuating pendulum. A tribute to their efficiency.
 A part of the reason is that weight A would be dropping more than it's own path allows for.

Greetings Jim

 I still don't see you getting an advantage but good luck on it.  When dealing with acceleration of swinging. I would suggest watching kids on the playground swing. By dropping themselves and kicking out to accelerate.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 06, 2011, 01:24:38 PM
Greetings Jim

 I still don't see you getting an advantage but good luck on it.  When dealing with acceleration of swinging. I would suggest watching kids on the playground swing. By dropping themselves and kicking out to accelerate.

  Hi Alan,
 As you know, I am engaged in learning the build process for what I consider to be Bessler's working wheel.
With this, there is one important thing to remember, work equals mass times distance. And it seems that torque is to be considered just the same.
 What this means is if someone tries to rotate a wheel using solid weights that they have to consider the distance the weights travel and their average position from center. That's to keep it simple. And using 4 weights as an example, the weights being lifted have to move close enough to the axle to travel less distance than those falling. A very difficult thing to do.
 With swinging weights, the efficiency increases. And as one weight drops, it can lift with no friction, a weight dropping can lift another weight the same height. While Bessler said he used 6 and 8 weights, he did not say on which wheel.
 With a wheel based on a pendulum type behavior, more than 2 weights can be used. But 2 weights might work best with the mechanics. And the best thing about something like this is people would believe that everything is rotating with the wheel. But as only the hands on a watch rotate, it would be the wheel and not it's mechanics that would be rotating. this would put people on the wrong trail from the word go. Thus they would never figure out Bessler's subterfuge.
 

                                                                                                                             Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 06, 2011, 05:14:07 PM
   Alan,
 this might help simplify things for you and everyone else.
As has been mentioned, bessler made time pieces. these required great skill.
 And as you once asked in Besslerwheel, what could fit inside a wheel that
is 4 inches (10 cm's) wide ? Swinging levers could. And to throw a little math
at you, if a 1 meter long levers are used with a 7.5 cm radius cog, an over balance of
 5.88 cm's. Or the CoG would be 94.12 cm's. And if it rotated 1/4 turn, then the Cog
would be 82.345 cm's. That's a signifigant difference.
 As for the wheel itself, how much would the frame of a 10 cm wide wheel weigh ?
Not much, especially if it is covered with material as Bessler's were known to have.
 Just don't expect it to do much work, but it could rotate if the math proves to be correct.
 By the way, remember the spinning top that was a clue ? It could roll, couldn't it ? Like
maybe if a line were attached to something else ? And the line was attached to both ends
to pull it evenly ? just a thought.
 
                                                                                           Jim
 
edited to add picture showing a straight line pull.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 07, 2011, 02:12:27 AM
latest from veljkomilkovic.com:


"Energy Globe Award" for Veljko Milkovic's Pendulum Pump
 
On November 25, in the Austrian city of Wales, the prestigious "Energy Globe" awards for the best global environmental projects were presented and this year's world and national winners were proclaimed. Veljko Milkovic’s innovation “Hand water pump with a pendulum“ was proclaimed national winner of “Energy Globe Award 2011“ for the Republic of Serbia.
 
 
On November 25, in the Austrian city of Wales, international foundation ENERGY GLOBE (www.energyglobe-foundation.com (http://www.energyglobe-foundation.com/)) traditionally rewarded projects which improve energy efficiency and renewable energy sources and presented the awards to international and national winners in its prestige Energy Globe Award (www.energyglobe.info (http://www.energyglobe.info)). International foundation ENERGY GLOBE, based in Austria has been giving the most prestigious international award for environment preservation in the world since 1999. Among other things, ENERGY GLOBE award is intended for all the projects in the world which rationally, carefully and efficiently treat energy sources including renewable energy sources.
 
This year’s final ceremony was held in the Austrian energy city of Wales, in a beautiful setting of the trade fair and conference center "Messezentrum NEU” (www.messe-wels.com (http://www.messe-wels.com/)). Annual award "ENERGY GLOBE" was presented on a gala manifestation under the name “Olympics for our environment” which gathered representatives from over 40 countries, more than 1000 guests, top-ranking laudatory speakers and a huge crowd of press and television representatives. http://www.energyglobe.com/news/details/category/2/id/1823/ (http://www.energyglobe.com/news/details/category/2/id/1823/)

Almost 1,000 projects from 105 countries was participating for this year's award "Energy Globe" and from those who met the criteria of the international jury, the best project from each country was awarded the national "Energy Globe" award http://www.energyglobe.com/en/award/latest-winners/national-awards-wels-2011/ (http://www.energyglobe.com/en/award/latest-winners/national-awards-wels-2011/) from which the top 15, divided into 5 categories (earth, fire, water, air, youth), were also nominated for global award "Energy Globe World Award 2011". http://www.energyglobe.com/en/award/latest-winners/nominees-world-award-2011/ (http://www.energyglobe.com/en/award/latest-winners/nominees-world-award-2011/)

International jury proclaimed “Hand water pump with a pendulum”, an invention by Serbian academician, researcher and inventor Veljko Milkovic (www.veljkomilkovic.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/)), the national winner in the Republic of Serbia for 2011 for his energy-saving technology for water supply and irrigation. http://www.pendulum-lever.com/pendulum-pump.html (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/pendulum-pump.html)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 07, 2011, 05:30:13 PM
   Merg,
 Veljko's award is something that probably would have merited it's own thread
as positive recognotion in this type of pursuit is something not known to happen.
It's nice to see that he has been recognized for his efforts.
 
                                                                                             Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 12, 2011, 01:26:46 AM
a replica from YouTube...

1. two stage oscillator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFPcE248BHE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFPcE248BHE)

2. two stage oscillator escapement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdE-K7Twvvc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdE-K7Twvvc)

3. TSO half cog powering mechanism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywh_NLHk-FY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywh_NLHk-FY)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 12, 2011, 04:56:53 PM
Swing 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKIWcJiJs04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKIWcJiJs04)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on December 13, 2011, 12:51:57 AM
Merg

The link you posted (1. two stage oscillator ) I found it a bit funny for if he tries to get more swing by hand. It will go through the roof. LOL


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 18, 2011, 04:26:49 PM
Just imagine that someone invented a gravity shield . And imagine that in addition to being able to switch gravity off , it was also capable of intensifying gravity to 3 times its normal strength . The only problem is that the device switches gravity from zero to 3 times normal on a cyclic basis . We can control the switching frequency . Well , there is no need to imagine . The device is already a reality , and is open source . Google The secrets of free energy from the pendulum by Jovan Marjanovic . After reading this , see item 5 in the footnotes . "Theory of Gravity Machines ."
       The device is of course the Milkovic 2 stage oscillator . These two articles are the best I have seen , but there are others by the same author .The 2SO has never been looped for various reasons . The main reason has been timing issues . These issues could easily be overcome by using the output to wind up a large clock spring to drive the pendulum via an escapement . See my last post in this thread . Raymond Head [youtube rhead100] has done more than any man on earth to perfect this device . However , I know he has health problems , and has not posted for about 3 months . I would advise anyone building a 2SO to have a pendulum at least one metre long . Build the frame as strong as possible . In my opinion  one needs only utilise the downward movement of the output arm . Add a heavy weight to the output arm , so the upward movement lifts this weight , which the helps the downward movement on the way down .I plan to do some research in the new year , but it will be slow due to health and money problems .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on December 20, 2011, 01:27:49 AM
In my opinion  one needs only utilise the downward movement of the output arm . Add a heavy weight to the output arm ,
I agree i found that after watching slow motion frame by frame examination of a few videos. I found that the downward "free-fall" of the weight is at least 40% faster than the rise of the weight. This extra energy is very important when considering how to collect the output of the TSO.     
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on December 20, 2011, 12:52:56 PM
Is the claim still standing at 12x output vs input?
A small child can loop such a device, regardless of irratic timing. give the child the manually powered device and a supply of Lego, and it will take about an hour.
12x offers SO much for effciency losses.
The inventor should reduce the 12x claim (to say 1.5x) and then still it would be hard to believe. A device like Rhead's should be working even if there was just 1.1x (less than 1% of claim) to be had.
 
Here's a challenge.
Let an electronically controlled engine simulating the way the 2SO is claimed to operate. At 12x input, but adjustable to lower efficiency of course. You give a pendulum a tap, and the output lever multiply it 12x that in useful work.
Now notice how childishly easy it is to loop the thing. Even at 2x OU.

The free energy in the 2SO is like a dream running through your fingers. You can alomost grab ahold of it. You just need to believe and keep trying.
It's a fun aid to overcome stiction in a waterpump, but the great minds looking at the 2SO are being kept for more worthwhile projects.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 20, 2011, 01:42:48 PM
The 2SO has now been around for about 10 years ., There have been various mathematical "proofs " of OU , but the best one I have seen is by Jovan Marjanovic . The particular example he examined turned out to be 3.25 times OU .I personally think that Raymond Head is struggling a bit because he has chosen the electrical route to OU rather than the mechanical .
    I have designed an experiment which I hope to work on , which will easily prove OU or otherwise .Imagine a classic 2SO . At the opposite end of the lever to the pendulum is a weight .This weight is mounted on a horizontal arm , like a horizontal pendulum . The weight just sits on top of the lever . The arm has a ratchet , so the weight , when lifted , does not fall .During the test , the pendulum is allowed only one swing , from left to right . It starts in a horizontal position . At the end of its swing , it is caught by a ratchet . The beam is just heavy enough at the left side to return it to its horizontal start position at the end of the test .During the swing of the main pendulum , the counterweight will rise , and stay up due to the ratchet . The main pendulum will stop on its ratchet at a point lower than the start point . Measure how much lower . Suppose it is 2 inches lower . And say it weighs one pound . So input energy was two inch-pounds . We can measure the output by weighing the counter weight , and measuring its rise . The same equipment and tests can be used to optimise various parameters , such as how far the main pendulum pivot is allowed to fall during the swing . So for example we find that with 2 inch pounds of input we get 4 inch pounds of output , this will prove beyond any possible doubt that the 2SO is overunity . Better than all the theories on earth . If someone beats me to it on this , and gets it on youtube , Please mention my name . Regards , Ken Hardy .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 20, 2011, 03:40:33 PM
The 2SO has now been around for about 10 years ., There have been various mathematical "proofs " of OU , but the best one I have seen is by Jovan Marjanovic . The particular example he examined turned out to be 3.25 times OU .I personally think that Raymond Head is struggling a bit because he has chosen the electrical route to OU rather than the mechanical .
    I have designed an experiment which I hope to work on , which will easily prove OU or otherwise .Imagine a classic 2SO . At the opposite end of the lever to the pendulum is a weight .This weight is mounted on a horizontal arm , like a horizontal pendulum . The weight just sits on top of the lever . The arm has a ratchet , so the weight , when lifted , does not fall .During the test , the pendulum is allowed only one swing , from left to right . It starts in a horizontal position . At the end of its swing , it is caught by a ratchet . The beam is just heavy enough at the left side to return it to its horizontal start position at the end of the test .During the swing of the main pendulum , the counterweight will rise , and stay up due to the ratchet . The main pendulum will stop on its ratchet at a point lower than the start point . Measure how much lower . Suppose it is 2 inches lower . And say it weighs one pound . So input energy was two inch-pounds . We can measure the output by weighing the counter weight , and measuring its rise . The same equipment and tests can be used to optimise various parameters , such as how far the main pendulum pivot is allowed to fall during the swing . So for example we find that with 2 inch pounds of input we get 4 inch pounds of output , this will prove beyond any possible doubt that the 2SO is overunity . Better than all the theories on earth . If someone beats me to it on this , and gets it on youtube , Please mention my name . Regards , Ken Hardy .

we are waiting for more than 10 years
 
real proof of a working device
not mathematical proof or virtual proof
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 20, 2011, 04:11:31 PM
@Tagor .Yes we are awaiting a self runner . But waiting will achieve nothing .I am limited to what I can do , due to failing eyesight , poor health , old age and poverty . In spite of these problems , I am working on building my experiment . Surely a test where a one pound weight falling two inches raises a one pound weight four inches or more is more than "virtual " ? Such a demonstration , on its own is the holy grail that has been sought since the death of Bessler .My hope is that this test will inspire builders .I know exactly how to loop this machine if the Grim Reaper doesnt beat me to it . Why not stop waiting and start building ? Just a thought , my friend .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 20, 2011, 04:26:11 PM
@Tagor .Yes we are awaiting a self runner . But waiting will achieve nothing .I am limited to what I can do , due to failing eyesight , poor health , old age and poverty . In spite of these problems , I am working on building my experiment . Surely a test where a one pound weight falling two inches raises a one pound weight four inches or more is more than "virtual " ? Such a demonstration , on its own is the holy grail that has been sought since the death of Bessler .My hope is that this test will inspire builders .I know exactly how to loop this machine if the Grim Reaper doesnt beat me to it . Why not stop waiting and start building ? Just a thought , my friend .

I have a dual pendulum running for more than 4 years with just a very poor sunday
if it was OU this device had to explode long time ago !!
 
my time and my money is not free
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 20, 2011, 05:30:22 PM
   @All,
 If the enrgy out put was more than the input, it would already be a runner.
It could be his claim of 12X is based on using leverage to achieve a more efficxient pump design which has been demonstrated. I don't think his claim ever has been OU. And from what I have read, that has not been his pursuit. If so, could someone please post a link ?
 To that end, here is an idea I described earlier in the thread of using a top or secondary weight with another weight. The secondary weight could have it's position changed on the downward swing swing to stay behind the primary weight. This would cause a change in the CoG of the primary and most likely heavier weight.
 On it's downward swing, a tab could "stop" the secondary weight. The primary weight would swing past it. After it does, then the secondary weight would act as if it werte pushing the other weight. The tab could be spring loaded so it would release the secondary weight with minimal energy wasted. And it could be very little. Of course, with an OU device, precision would be.
 
                                                                                    Jim
 
edited to add; the primary weight is not shown
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on December 20, 2011, 05:32:05 PM
The inventors have NO IDEA about mechanics, if they can't loop 3.25x (claims drop quickly?)
 
Lifted and then rolling weights could easily be made to time a looping mechanism out of. I've seen crazier contraptions than that.
The second stage loads a spring, which is unload just as a sensor notices the optimal moment on the first stage. With 1.5x overunity, this will be a self-runner even with terrible timing and energy storage and transfer. I'll give them a few hand taps to get the system going, even after it's reached operating amplitude.
 
It will be found that less energy can be extracted from the second stage, and more is actually required on the first stage. End result: underunity.
 
The ever-changing fulcrum of the first stage is hard to get into math, but not a problem at all to administed feedback loop to. A correctly placed lever can tap the first stage at the right place and time, every time, when it's just tuned once and for all. Load the lever with the second stage's huge output. The helper of a clock maker would build this from lego in a matter of minutes. It's only hard if you pre-determing the effect of a succesful build. The second stage digging huge holes, throwing big buckets of dirt high up with each swing, while a child taps the first stage with it's small spade. Nice dream.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 20, 2011, 07:18:27 PM
OK then . I guess It will have to wait until I get it built . The key thing about my planned demo , is that it will give indesputable measurement of both input and output . I do not expect to see 12 times OU , although I believe that may be possible . If I can see 2.5 or 3 times , I am confident I can loop it . The big question is this . If I can lift a one pound weight more than 2 inches , by allowing another 1 pound weight to fall 2 inches , HAVE I PROVED OVERUNITY ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 20, 2011, 09:29:14 PM
OK then . I guess It will have to wait until I get it built . The key thing about my planned demo , is that it will give indesputable measurement of both input and output . I do not expect to see 12 times OU , although I believe that may be possible . If I can see 2.5 or 3 times , I am confident I can loop it . The big question is this . If I can lift a one pound weight more than 2 inches , by allowing another 1 pound weight to fall 2 inches , HAVE I PROVED OVERUNITY ?

   Neptune,
 Unfortunately, "credible" people in this forum have already made that claim but refused to show their work.
 Most I don't think will accept it. Not because of your efforts but because of the frauds who have claimed many things.
 
                                                                                              Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 20, 2011, 10:34:05 PM
@Johnny874 . Yes I know exactly what you mean . I will put my results on youtube , and let people decide for themselves . I f it works it would be very easy to duplictate .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 20, 2011, 11:45:15 PM
Go for it Neptune. Let me assure you that if anything, the tsmo is easy to build. i've built at least ten of them, most of them only took several hours. And it was fun. Sorry that i can't explain my projects in advanced physics terms to you, I'm just a steamfitter. I learn by reading, building and experimenting. The tsmo is scalable and there is know excuse to not try to build one. One of my smallest models was the most impressive to me. Sorry I don't have video of that one,  I dropped my cellphone in a puddle and it was lost. Smaller is better anyway, because it's cheaper and you signifigant other won't think your nuts for hanging out in the garage for ten and a half hours. My advice is the escapement route. Who cares if it's overunity? It still is a fantastic device and it just takes less work to get the job done. With an escapement, maybe you would have to reset it every day, but you could do it wether or not there was sunlight, heat, electricity, fuel, etc. If you couldn't physically reset the weight you could use other means, only limited by your imagination. Sorry, I think the tsmo concept is a winner. Also so many people pay to go to the gym, why not pay them to reset the the device for you. Milkovic already recommends that very idea. It just seems too easy to use this device to generate massive kw, even in a compact design. There is no shortage of people willing to work right now and to not go this route almost seems insane.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 21, 2011, 04:24:40 PM
@gdez . Many thanks for your kind words . Make no apology for being a practical man . Practical men are worth more than pure academics . I started work on a small model today . I like the gym idea , but surely the clients should pay you! Think like a Business man .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on December 21, 2011, 04:52:47 PM
OK then . I guess It will have to wait until I get it built . The key thing about my planned demo , is that it will give indesputable measurement of both input and output . I do not expect to see 12 times OU , although I believe that may be possible . If I can see 2.5 or 3 times , I am confident I can loop it . The big question is this . If I can lift a one pound weight more than 2 inches , by allowing another 1 pound weight to fall 2 inches , HAVE I PROVED OVERUNITY ?
The lifted weight will need to remain at the highest point. Oscillating a 2" or even 4" amplitude is just that, an oscillation, and energy-neutral.
It can't be that hard to move the lifted weight to the input side, to do its timely work once more.
 
Really, think of ball bearings, those roll so nice on metal tracks. The second stage's output is the lift of a ball bearing from its lowest to its highest point. From there is rolls towards the input pendulum, and loses nearly all its energy there. After that, it gently rolls into its place in line to be lifted again by a second stage oscillation.
That's as simple as it get I think.
The trickest part would be the input timing Best seems to be a spring loaded by the bearing's tap, and then a timed release from a trigger attached to the first stage.
You might need a few lined up bearings to get the 2SO fully going, before engaging the output of the second stage. The input is easily measured: the number of bearings required to be placed a the highest point, after the (manual) lift.
Let's say it takes 5 balls before the output can be engaged.
Ideally, a few input taps would be left out, to increase the "stock" of lifted balls well above that initial 5. That would prove OU as well in my book.
 
Any overunity could be expressed by the amount of work/lift that could be performed by balls between loading the spring, and falling in line below the second stage. Or even just the height loss in the process, providing all kinetic energy is uselessly killed before its being lifted.
 
Do I make sense at all?
 
My predicition is it can't sustain full oscillation without having more input than output. Passionately hope to be wrong.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 21, 2011, 06:22:41 PM
The lifted weight will need to remain at the highest point. Oscillating a 2" or even 4" amplitude is just that, an oscillation, and energy-neutral.
It can't be that hard to move the lifted weight to the input side, to do its timely work once more.
 
Really, think of ball bearings, those roll so nice on metal tracks. The second stage's output is the lift of a ball bearing from its lowest to its highest point. From there is rolls towards the input pendulum, and loses nearly all its energy there. After that, it gently rolls into its place in line to be lifted again by a second stage oscillation.
That's as simple as it get I think.
The trickest part would be the input timing Best seems to be a spring loaded by the bearing's tap, and then a timed release from a trigger attached to the first stage.
You might need a few lined up bearings to get the 2SO fully going, before engaging the output of the second stage. The input is easily measured: the number of bearings required to be placed a the highest point, after the (manual) lift.
Let's say it takes 5 balls before the output can be engaged.
Ideally, a few input taps would be left out, to increase the "stock" of lifted balls well above that initial 5. That would prove OU as well in my book.
 
Any overunity could be expressed by the amount of work/lift that could be performed by balls between loading the spring, and falling in line below the second stage. Or even just the height loss in the process, providing all kinetic energy is uselessly killed before its being lifted.
 
Do I make sense at all?
 
My predicition is it can't sustain full oscillation without having more input than output. Passionately hope to be wrong.

   Cloxxki,
 I think what webby1 posted is something that might work well with this concept.
Pendulum clocks originally were powered by a falling weight.
 If a 2 or 3 section scissor were used, then by closing one arm of the scissors 5cm's,
it could lift a weight twice that. If so, then work to output might be on the OU side
of things. If so, then it would keep the pendulum swinging. I think Vjelko might be
interested. It would compliment his work rather nicely.
 
                                                                   Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 22, 2011, 02:53:09 AM
@ Neptune,
 I am making no apologies and don't intend to. I was talking about producing energy, putting people to work and making a profit. Gravity is a never ending force that is all around you and and it just seems to me that it's how you utilize it. Nothing different then combustion, wind , tide or solar. Good luck with your build Neptune. For everybody else, build it or stop blabbing. My hat is off to all the people that I see building things. You just don't know till you try it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on December 22, 2011, 02:28:30 PM
I started work on a small model today .
Don't go to small. The ratios of input to "output" go up drastically as the size (COG of bob to pivot point. or length of pend arm) and mass increases.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 22, 2011, 02:36:03 PM
@Fishman . Yes , I suspected that size matters ! My current model will use a pendulum about half a meter long . I f I can prove OU  to myself , no matter how small , I shall be inspired to build the next one bigger .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 22, 2011, 10:27:16 PM
   Hey Guys,
 Y'all want something to think about when it comes to smot's ?
Check this out. It seems he figured out a way to control the magnetic field.
 If you put a north pole magnet on a bob, then when it swings by, it should get the same push. Then set up the magnet to switch directions for the swing back to start.
 It works for his magnetic motor, should work for other things.
 The bright side to all this ? Well, if you can get a pendulum swinging constntly by using what krudelta found, it might help to make Vjelko's pumps free energy pumps.
 Up to you guys though. Have my own project. Until then, I think i will be 10 10 on the side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGq2WSnE7j0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGq2WSnE7j0)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 23, 2011, 04:35:57 PM
Hi Guys . Making some progress on my test rig . I have a base board with 2 stanchions , and a see-saw lever mounted on an old bicycle hub . Built on a zero budget , it will win no prizes for woodwork , but it is functional which is what matters . !00% recycled materials .I have also cast some test weights from ready mixed concrete which I begged from a local building site .They should have set by boxing day .
       Whilst working on this , a theory keeps coming into my head . According to the mathematic analysis of the 2SO by Jovan Marjanovic , The overunity comes from centrifugal force . So it might be possible that we could harvest energy from centrifugal force without involving gravity . Imagine 2 bike chainwheels [front sprockets ] mounted on a beam .The beam is like a see saw mounted on its side with the axle vertical . The 2 wheels are mounted , one each end of the see saw , also on vertical axles . A chain links the 2 wheels so they turn together in the same direction .Each wheel has a heavy weight mounted on its rim . We will view the device from above . At the start the weight on the left wheel is at 12 oclock , and the weight on the right wheel is at 6 oclock . We now turn the wheels 90 degrees clockwise so on the left wheel the weight is at 3 oclock , and on the right wheel 9 oclock . The centrifugal forces on the 2 weights cancel each other at this point . After a further 90 degrees , the left weight is at 6 oclock and the right weight at12 oclock . The centrifugal force on both weights acts to turn the see saw anti clockwise . After a further 90 degrees the left weight is at 9 oclock and the right weight at3 oclock . The forces cancel . The final 90 degrees takes the left weight to12 oclock and the left weight to 6 0clock . the forces combine now to turn the seesaw clockwise . So as the wheels turn the seesaw oscillates back and forth . We need to limit its movement to a small arc . Two poblems arise . How do we drive the wheels as it oscillates , and is it OU ?.The oscillating see saw can be linked to a crankshaft , which is linked somehow to the rotating chain wheels to ensure synchronisation .A diagram will help you visualise it .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on December 23, 2011, 10:07:03 PM
   Neptune,
 Looking forward to seeing your rig when you get it done.
 One problem with centrifugal force is inertia. it is equal to the drop.
 
                                                              Jim
 Tom's innovation migth be worth checking out. And as I mentioned, it is something that could support Vjelko's work.
It would be a big plus for what we are trying to do. Something to think about anyways. And Merry Christmas everyone.
                                                                                                                           Jim
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 29, 2011, 05:23:02 PM
Hi guys . still working on the test rig . One thing I have learned is that with this device , the forces are much greater than you expect , so build a sturdy frame .I have devised a very simple way to measure the input . My idea is measure the effects during just one swing of the pendulum from left to right . The pendulum is released from the horizontal . we then need to measure how high it rises on the right side . As it rises , it hits a very light lever which is balanced like a see saw . The pivot of this lever is just tight enough so it stays where you put it . As the pendulum rises , it lifts one end of this light lever , which I made from Corex plastic , or you could use cardboard . As the pendulum swings back , I catch it . then I can manually return it to its exact highest point , and measure the hight of its centre of gravity .I can thus measure its loss of hight during its first swing . Multiplying this distance by the pendulum weight gives me the input energy . Much more to do , watch this space .
 ADDED LATER .Initial tests show underunity , but this was expected , as no attempt has yet been made to tune the device . I fitted a heavier pendulum , but the frame is not strong enough to take it . So the next thing is to refit the original pendulum , but with a bearing instead of a plain pivot rod .
     A thing that worries me is this .Initial experiments are being done with a beam having both sides of equal length .Both Milkovic and rhead100 use beams with a 3 to one ratio or thereabouts . I shall get to this in time , but why not use an equal beam with a counterweight 3 times as heavy? Opinions welcome . My aim at this stage is to show overunity . After that , I want to try a rotating off balance flywheel instead of a pendulum , because mathematics show a 66% gain over a pendulum , and also , driving it is easier .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on December 30, 2011, 01:10:38 AM
@ Neptune,
 I have had some questions about the 3 to 1 lever ratio that you raised concerns about. it seems that Milkovics idea about this is not explained very well. To me you should stay with your idea about an eccentric flywheel.I have to say that most of my models have used milkovics 3 to 1, but in most of my tsmo's I have found that it is easier to make it work with the classical lever method that is actuallly in reverse of Milkovics ideas. I think that the Tsmo effect can be used in many ways, and actaully Milkovics work with eccentric flywheels is his best work. Don't worry about peolple telling you it won't work, My models just keep getting better. Some people that think they are so smart should just look up the defintion of Dogma (Wikipedia). If you think you are limited by rules and laws of physics, well, then you are. Imagination seems to be unstoppable though, And most of what poeple have thought was possible, has already been acheived. Have we figured everything out yet? Highly unlikey. Keep trying Neptune, I look forward to seeing your work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on December 30, 2011, 04:40:41 AM
@neptune,   Rheads latest TSO lever is said to have a 7:1 ratio. He said he will allow a 3/4" of vertical movement on the short side to get a 5.25"  vertical movement on the long side.
I think the lever ratio is more about what your going to do with the output, and weather you want a longer weaker stroke or a shorter stronger stroke.

The big question for me is, what is a good "allowed vertical movement"? and what is relationship of the allowed vertical movement and the lenght of the swingarm?
I do think there must be a point of deminishing return on the allowed vertical movement. I no if i allow the lever to move too much, the performance decreases. If it is allowed to move too little, the performance decreases. 
While i have confirmed (to my satisfaction) the OU capability's of this device, i am still unclear that part.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 30, 2011, 01:10:09 PM
@fishman . What an interesting and relevant post ! There is very probably an ideal distance to allow the pendulum pivot to drop [ expressed as a percentage of the pendulum length . ] My contribution here is that for the first time we have simple cheap low tech way to measure the exact input power , using just a bit of cardboard and two drawing pins [thumb tacks ] . We can limit the rise and fall of the output arm by just using 2 stops . So we can make a graph of pivot drop versus output power . This should show us the ideal , most efficient amount of pivot drop . This is what I intend to do , albeit slowly due to health and budget limitations .
     Note that we can use the same methods to optimise the pendulum itself , to test the effect of different bearings , wind drag etc . These tests will of course be done with a fixed pivot , so we measure the energy losses during just one swing [half cycle ] of the pendulum . It would be nice if someone else would duplicate my tests as well . By the way , does anyone know how to contact rhead100 , as we have heard nothing from him for some time .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on December 30, 2011, 03:12:43 PM
@Replaced
Here are a couple of threads that might help you understand your questions.http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10172-why-perpetual-motion-machines-do-not-exist.html
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10197-gravity-not-force.html#post173498

If you seek the truth, you might find those helpful. But if you already no all the answers...

Those threads were constructive for the most part. Your comments here, not so much. ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 30, 2011, 05:18:06 PM
@Replaced .You say that my machine does not work . That is not a fair conclusion , as I have only completed a small fraction of the tests I need to do . At least I am searching . The extra enegy will come from gravity . Yes I know that gravity is a conservative force .But what if we had a way to switch gravity on and off , with a minimum of invested energy ? We do have that means . It is called a pendulum . At its highest point , as it changes direction , it is momentarily weightless .If it starts from the horizontal position , at bottom dead centre , it weighs 3 times normal . If it starts from a nearly upside down position , then at bottom dead centre it weighs 5 times normal .
          As I see it , there are 2 possible futures for mankind . Either we shall discover new ways to create energy , or we shall see a return to Mediaeval times .,except that there will not be enough horses to go round , so they will be replaced by slaves .There will be widespread starvation , and canibalism . Tell us what YOU are doing about it .
ADDED LATER . I have now refitted the original pendulum with a bearing from an old electric motor . I was amazed how long it will swing with a little push , compared to the original pivot which was just a steel rod through a hole in wood .Still no OU , but a measurable increase in efficiency .My next tests will involve extending the output arm .After all what I have tested up to now is not really a Milkovic Oscillator .The main reason I am convinced I can prove OU , is that rhead100 has already done so [see video 7 on his youtube channel].What I want to bring to the table [to use a modern stupid expression ] is undeniable exact measurement of input and output in a way that has never been done before . The test rig I have now is a bit of a lash-up and sooner or later I shall build a bigger better one . Budget constraints are a big problem , but we shall overcome .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on December 31, 2011, 07:23:40 PM
Just a brief update . Today I spent the time I had available altering the lever . I now have a 3.5 to 1 ratio . I have also reinforced the main frame in a few places . I can do no more until the wood glue dries . If I am able to replicate the OU shown by rhead100 , I have some original ideas to tryto close the loop .Of course rhead might beat me to it , in which case I will be the first to congratulate [and copy] him .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 01, 2012, 07:25:00 PM
I managed to get an hour in the workshop today . I decided to do some tests with the lever at a 3 to 1 ratio . Results were no better than with a 1 to 1 ratio . The best efficiency I managed was about 60% . I still have ideas to try . Slight modification will allow me to run for 3 or 4 cycles , and then measure the total hight lost by the pendulum weight . Hopefully , I will find time to do this tomorrow . I want to exhaust all possibilities with this rig before I take it apart and build something different . It is quite possible that size is working against me , and that one needs a bigger rig to show OU .My pendulum weighs only 1Kilo gram , as against about 100 kg on rhead100 machine . Time will tell .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 02, 2012, 04:56:37 PM
This seems to be my own private thread at the moment! No workshop time today . However I have been doing some serious thinking about the 2SO . I am a bit disappointed that I have been unable to prove OU  up to now .There can only be two possible reasons for this . Either no one has built an OU 2SO , or my particular 2SO is not OU. Looking again at the work and videos of Raymond Head [rhead100 ] his demonstrations seem to show OU . However he , like Milkovic has no perfect way to measure input . The Milkovic fish scale method is inacurate , and his demo with the lever operated torch [hand lamp] is to me open to deception because one can continue to push the pendulum with the torch after its lever has completed its travel .
     To measure the input continuously when the pendulum is pushed by hand every cycle . I suggest two methods .
1 . Tape a load cell to the palm of your hand , and monitor its output on
 a computer.By logging pressure and duration we can compute input energy for each stroke .
2 . Instead of pushing it with the hand , push it with a lever . The lever is operated by a falling weight , and is reset by hand after each stroke . The distance the weight can fall is adjusted so it just maintains the pendulum amplitude . With this low tech method we know the exact input at each stroke .
          For a mechanical device to be looped , it needs to be at least 2 times OU to compensate for losses .If it is only , say one and a half times , it could still have its uses , in muscle powered  devices .
  Accurate measurement is the key , gut feelings are unreliable . we can fall into what I call the bicycle syndrome . It is a proven fact , that if you walk a mile , you can cycle 3 miles for the same amount of energy . This does not mean the a bike is 3 times OU , it just means that walking is a relatively inefficient way to travel .
         There is always the possibility that my method of measuring the input energy for just one swing of the pendulum is in some way flawed , but at this stage , I can not see how . I would appreciate opinions from everyone .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 02, 2012, 06:21:10 PM
This seems to be my own private thread at the moment! No workshop time today . However I have been doing some serious thinking about the 2SO . I am a bit disappointed that I have been unable to prove OU  up to now .There can only be two possible reasons for this . Either no one has built an OU 2SO , or my particular 2SO is not OU. Looking again at the work and videos of Raymond Head [rhead100 ] his demonstrations seem to show OU . However he , like Milkovic has no perfect way to measure input . The Milkovic fish scale method is inacurate , and his demo with the lever operated torch [hand lamp] is to me open to deception because one can continue to push the pendulum with the torch after its lever has completed its travel .
     To measure the input continuously when the pendulum is pushed by hand every cycle . I suggest two methods .
1 . Tape a load cell to the palm of your hand , and monitor its output on
 a computer.By logging pressure and duration we can compute input energy for each stroke .
2 . Instead of pushing it with the hand , push it with a lever . The lever is operated by a falling weight , and is reset by hand after each stroke . The distance the weight can fall is adjusted so it just maintains the pendulum amplitude . With this low tech method we know the exact input at each stroke .
          For a mechanical device to be looped , it needs to be at least 2 times OU to compensate for losses .If it is only , say one and a half times , it could still have its uses , in muscle powered  devices .
  Accurate measurement is the key , gut feelings are unreliable . we can fall into what I call the bicycle syndrome . It is a proven fact , that if you walk a mile , you can cycle 3 miles for the same amount of energy . This does not mean the a bike is 3 times OU , it just means that walking is a relatively inefficient way to travel .
         There is always the possibility that my method of measuring the input energy for just one swing of the pendulum is in some way flawed , but at this stage , I can not see how . I would appreciate opinions from everyone .

   Neptune,
 When I first tried something with OU in mind, I started with conservation of momentum.
When momentum is conserved, it can then be converted into what ever it is you want.
 With a pendulum, one reason why they are so efficient is that their travel is mostly east-west. By this, I mean left to right, little lift or drop. This allows a little energy to allow for more motion.
 One thing I have always felt is that a 2OS is avoiding the real issue. A single pendulum should be able to work. With what Tom thought of, the pendulums grates potential (when the bob is at it's highest point( can be used to lift another weight that would not have to fight inertia. And for any OU device, something obvious should be noticed. With scissors, it is obvious. A weight can travel a greater distance than the work put into it.
 And if that doesn't work, then it would be known. And I think when it comes to swinging weights or even rotating ones for that matter, people have a tendency to ignore how much inertia is developed. It is equal to f=ma. This means any time a weight swings or drops to rotate, it's inertia is equal to it's potential. This is where a secondary system can break that cycle. it can convert f=ma (force equals mass times acceleration) to w=md (work equals mass times distance). And this would give it a chance.

                                                                                                                                Jim
 
edited to add; with what I am building, when a lever swings, it performs work. with a pendulum, some of the energy would need to be directed back into the system but is possible.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: icanbeatbob on January 03, 2012, 01:32:37 AM
Neptune,

Don't know if this has been though of before, but here is my idea. When the pendulum is at it's lowest point, it exerts it's greatest force downward against the pivot point, which is lost energy.

What if the weight pulling down was pulling down on a leverage point instead?

Brad




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 03, 2012, 02:40:54 PM
Allowing the weight to dip say 1cm lower will also take always from it's required next upswing.
And you can't take out extra CF by leveraging the extraction, as that would just slow down the weight even more, it will lift back to regular dead bottom and lay still there.
 
There is no energy without vertical work, and the weight can't to more work than its loss in height unless it's slowed down.
Laws of nature will not be rewritten to make the 2SO overunity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on January 03, 2012, 03:38:49 PM
@Cloxxki,
   
"Laws of nature will not be rewritten to make the 2SO overunity"

The Laws of nature do not have to be rewritten to make the 2SO overunity. Your understanding of the laws of nature will.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: icanbeatbob on January 03, 2012, 04:11:27 PM
Understood. I am sure you guys know more about this than I do. It was just a thought.

I was thinking that the string would be taught, so when at the bottom, it would not travel down any substantial distance to lose energy for the upswing. Just goes to show you how much I know.

Anyway, I should have tried it myself first. Thanks for the information guys.

Brad
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 03, 2012, 05:34:36 PM
   @All,
 Here is a link to one thought he had, and so far it hasn't worked.
Stefan asked when he started this thread if it was what Bessler had found.
I believe so. What I posted in the other thread has a good chance of working.
And it would be what Vjelko considers a feedback loop. It seems the math
has eluded everybody but me.
 As things are, my rotary tool bit the dust last night so I will be taking a break
until I can get myself in a better build position.
 As for Bessler and the 2OS, Good Luck.
 
                                                                                        Jim
edited to add; it's about 2/3rds down the page, this is the heading
MATHEMATICAL             & THEORETICAL ANALYSES

 
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html#analyses (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html#analyses)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on January 03, 2012, 06:58:24 PM

 Tom's innovation migth be worth checking out. And as I mentioned, it is something that could support Vjelko's work.
It would be a big plus for what we are trying to do. Something to think about anyways. And Merry Christmas everyone.
                                                                                                                           Jim

@ Jim, what is "TOM's innovation"?
Any links...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 03, 2012, 06:59:06 PM
Hi guys , thanks for replies and a happy new year to you all . @Cloxxki .So from what you say , are we to infer that you believe the 2SO is not overunity ? If this is the case do you believe any mechanical device is OU ?  I am not willing to say ay#t this stage if I think 2SO is OU or not . Obviously I think it could be , or I would not waste time on it .My take on how it might work are as follows . Friction and air drag are real forces and my experiments have confirmed that if the pendulum is released from the horizontal , the highest point it will reach is , say 2 Cm below horizontal . So if we allow the pendulum pivot to drop 1 cm at bottom dead centre , then the highest point it will rise to is 3 cms below horizontal . But mathematics show that the pivot moves down with a force of 3 times the pendulum weight due to the addition of centrifugal force .If we ignore or eliminate wind drag and friction , the pendulum will rise to 1 cm below horizontal , for a pivot fall of 1cm. So to restore the system , we need to raise the pendulum bob 1cm at a time when its weight is normal , near its highest point . So if the bob weighs 1 Kg ,input is 1Kg -centimeter , and output is 3 Kg- cm , or an OU of 3 minus losses .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 04, 2012, 12:21:59 AM
Tom's innovation migth be worth checking out. And as I mentioned, it is something that could support Vjelko's work.
It would be a big plus for what we are trying to do. Something to think about anyways. And Merry Christmas everyone.
                                                                                                                           Jim

@ Jim, what is "TOM's innovation"?
Any links...

   fishman,
 Here's the basic concept. As the pendulum swings downward, it lifts a weight at the bottom of a scissor. If the scissors (2 sections) hang down, there length is 4x (x= length of one lever). When the top scissor is pulled from both sides to open to a spread of 90 degrees (2 45 degree angles), the lateral movement is x*70% and the lift is 4x*30%.
 The second section I don't think would require any extra energy to work. This would happen because as the top section opens, the lower section is mirroring it's motion while the load remains the same. Thus more movement with the same energy expenditure.
 And when the fulcrum releases the weight that was lifted, it's energy can be put back into the system to keep the pendul swinging and still have a surplus which could rotate a wheel that would act as a shell to cover the mechanics much like a clock has a face.
 
                                                                               Jim
 
edited to correct math. if lateral movement is equal to 70%, then lift is 30%.
And 4*.30= 1.2 which of course is more than 1*.70= 0.70
 Anyway, it looks good on paper   ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 04, 2012, 01:01:40 AM
Hi guys , thanks for replies and a happy new year to you all . @Cloxxki .So from what you say , are we to infer that you believe the 2SO is not overunity ? If this is the case do you believe any mechanical device is OU ?  I am not willing to say ay#t this stage if I think 2SO is OU or not . Obviously I think it could be , or I would not waste time on it .My take on how it might work are as follows . Friction and air drag are real forces and my experiments have confirmed that if the pendulum is released from the horizontal , the highest point it will reach is , say 2 Cm below horizontal . So if we allow the pendulum pivot to drop 1 cm at bottom dead centre , then the highest point it will rise to is 3 cms below horizontal . But mathematics show that the pivot moves down with a force of 3 times the pendulum weight due to the addition of centrifugal force .If we ignore or eliminate wind drag and friction , the pendulum will rise to 1 cm below horizontal , for a pivot fall of 1cm. So to restore the system , we need to raise the pendulum bob 1cm at a time when its weight is normal , near its highest point . So if the bob weighs 1 Kg ,input is 1Kg -centimeter , and output is 3 Kg- cm , or an OU of 3 minus losses .
I'm no-one's expert, but have been reading up on such systems for a few year, looking for the same holy grail we all are.
Of course I want to believe mechanical overunity to exist.
As I've been reading and pondering on the subject, the idea is forming that it will be quite advanced. I unfortunately lack both the technical English (2nd language) and the physics education to put that into words.
There's speed, acceleration, increased rate of acceleration, etc.
The 2SO I would put on the acceleration level.
I am suspecting that for OU to exist, it will be at least one level higher up, and locked really well.


If you're able to put into formulae what you explained above, I'd be interested to study that.


Someone who above claims 3.25x overunity from math, but can't loop is, IMO is full of it.
Make me a simulated 2SO (hydralics multiplying input) that offers just 2x OU, just as claimed, in the fashion that it's claimed, I'll find a child in the street under the age of 10 to loop it, using only Lego and similar toys. In the span of an hour. I will be supporting of course to make sure the kid doesn't rush off to the game computer prematurely.


A loose thought.
The additional tension on the pendulum can be calculated, right? Not that hard.
If you move the pivot downward at the bottom of the swing though, would that not reduce tension right there and then?


All that you extract from the pendulum and invest into the second stage, the second stage will need to give right back, or the pendulum will hang still shortly.
I do not see a free lunch. Just a lot off misinfo, empty claims, and very bright brains being stuck figuring out a puzzle possibly designed to not fit, but intrigue the best of puzzlers for an eternity, keeping them away from the next puzzle, from progress.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on January 04, 2012, 10:00:28 AM
My take on how it might work are as follows . Friction and air drag are real forces and my experiments have confirmed that if the pendulum is released from the horizontal , the highest point it will reach is , say 2 Cm below horizontal . So if we allow the pendulum pivot to drop 1 cm at bottom dead centre , then the highest point it will rise to is 3 cms below horizontal . But mathematics show that the pivot moves down with a force of 3 times the pendulum weight due to the addition of centrifugal force .If we ignore or eliminate wind drag and friction , the pendulum will rise to 1 cm below horizontal , for a pivot fall of 1cm. So to restore the system , we need to raise the pendulum bob 1cm at a time when its weight is normal , near its highest point . So if the bob weighs 1 Kg ,input is 1Kg -centimeter , and output is 3 Kg- cm , or an OU of 3 minus losses .

You're kind of correct, but not completely. The key point you left out is.
1. To raise the bob 1 cm, to restore the potential energy, you can,
(A) Lift the bob cm1 which means the work is 1KG x 1 CM.
     OR
(B) Push the bob downward to restore it's potential energy. This achieves the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Maybe 1/10th the cost or less.

 Just ask yourself who in there right mind lifts the bob-weight to raise a pendulum? Answer, know one.
The reason we push a child on a swing set is because there is an great advantage to push with the influence/acceleration of gravity over lifting against gravity.  Try it you'll quickly dsicover this to be true.

Pushing w/gravity & your "3:1" goes MANY times higher than that. (note your centrifugal force number is too high for the standard small TSO, but your point is right on.)

If you really want to give you OU test a fair shot, you need a longer swing arm, 1 meter at least, 2 meters is much better. More weight also helps a lot.
At 2 meters even if you make mistakes with the build, you should see what you are looking for.

Roland
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 04, 2012, 03:31:38 PM
Hi guys and thanks for the intelligent replies . @ Cloxxi . Your English is excellent . Moving the pendulum pivot down does of course take energy from the pendulum . According to Marjonovic [see later] , this is minimised if we prevent the pendulum pivot from falling until just before bottom dead centre , and prevent it rising untill near top dead centre . If you want to see my last post expressed as a formula , read Marjonovic .
    @ Fishman . Your theory about pushing the bob down instead of lifting it may be right . Or we may be falling into a trap , and it seems easier because it is more convenient . It is easier to lift a car with a jack , rather than by hand . And yet in theory using the jack uses more energy due to losses in the jack . On the other hand cycling uses less energy then walking , in spite of mechanical losses in the bike . Experiments are definitely needed here . When I have done all I can with my small model , I plan to make a large 2 metre model , but it will take time . Incidentally , if anyone has a large model already built and has a few minutes to spare , perhaps someone could use my method to measure efficiency . It needs only a piece of plastic or cardboard . Full details in recent posts . Any questions please ask .
         Now back to Marjanovic . These papers are essential reading for serious 2SO fans . I do not know how to create links . Search on google for      Jovan Marjanovic Secrets of free energy from the pendulum . His other papers are ,
1 Keys of gravity machines
2 Theory of gravity machines
3 Mechanical feedback loop .
       Please do not miss these . Working together , we can lay this thing to rest , either positively or negatively . Even if we can prove it does NOT work , we can help to stop people wasting time on it .

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 04, 2012, 03:37:55 PM
You're kind of correct, but not completely. The key point you left out is.
1. To raise the bob 1 cm, to restore the potential energy, you can,
(A) Lift the bob cm1 which means the work is 1KG x 1 CM.
     OR
(B) Push the bob downward to restore it's potential energy. This achieves the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Maybe 1/10th the cost or less.

 Just ask yourself who in there right mind lifts the bob-weight to raise a pendulum? Answer, know one.
The reason we push a child on a swing set is because there is an great advantage to push with the influence/acceleration of gravity over lifting against gravity.  Try it you'll quickly dsicover this to be true.

Pushing w/gravity & your "3:1" goes MANY times higher than that. (note your centrifugal force number is too high for the standard small TSO, but your point is right on.)

If you really want to give you OU test a fair shot, you need a longer swing arm, 1 meter at least, 2 meters is much better. More weight also helps a lot.
At 2 meters even if you make mistakes with the build, you should see what you are looking for.

Roland
Sounds great, although too vague (or complicated) for me to understand.
Could you please explain when and why pushing with gravity is advantageous, and in which frame? Time, Kinetic Energy, height, etc?
Formulae for pendulums, KE and CF are quite straightforward. If you see a gain, please offer the math?
 
If that were to be true, the 2SO is needlessly complicated. We could extract the excess on the left side of a simple pendulum, and use only part of it to input on the right, contact gain. I've seen other inventions on that premise, but never seen measured gains.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 04, 2012, 04:27:55 PM
   Unfortunately, one pendulum can't accelerate another pendulum
when it's motion is parallel to the lever transfering the force. Basically
why a 2SO will never work.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 04, 2012, 06:43:43 PM
Hi guys and thanks for the intelligent replies . @ Cloxxi . Your English is excellent . Moving the pendulum pivot down does of course take energy from the pendulum . According to Marjonovic [see later] , this is minimised if we prevent the pendulum pivot from falling until just before bottom dead centre , and prevent it rising untill near top dead centre . If you want to see my last post expressed as a formula , read Marjonovic .
   
I once opened a paper the group published, and even with my highschool psysics I could tell within seconds they were making up incorrect formulae with incorrect units of measurement as outcome. A waste of time. It's not up to us to school them, they are to school us.
 
If they know it so well, they'd build it. They sure have the building skills.
Making wild claims, and letting the world figure out a way to make it work, after which they can claim invention.
 
If they could point out the underlying math without (intentional or unintensional) errors, this forum would build a working device, 2SO or otherwise, instantly.
Present me a precise pendulum path and the amount of energy to be extracted from CF, and I'll tell you how to build the device to do so.
Same for the second stage (weren't we suppose to extract all those buckets of FE there?). Tell us how much to extract, and we will. Don't blame us when the result is a stalled 2SO.
This is no hint of FE, not even anomalous behavior that I'm aware of.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 04, 2012, 07:08:24 PM
I am a seeker of truth . Sometimes when we seek the truth , the truth turns out  to be not what we had hoped for .I spent an hour in the workshop today , and repeated my experiments , taking very careful measurements . The best results I could obtain with this model are 60% efficiency . Although this model is crude , it has good bearings at both pivots . Note that I have not proved the 2SO is not overunity , just this particular one .This is a shame in that if I had found an efficiency of , say 95% , I would have felt more inspired to invest my very scarce resources in building a bigger , better model .
       That is why I am asking for help from anyone who has already built a bigger model . A few minutes of your time would enable you to use my method to test the efficiency . To simplify testing I am making an assumption . I am assuming that if the output arm raises a weight , even if the weight is then allowed to fall , work has been done . Someone [was it perhaps Cloxxi ?] suggested that this is not work , just an oscillation . However is this not what people do at the gym , and it makes them sweat , so they feel they are doing work . I am also making the assumption that if we limit the amount that the weight rises by a physical stop , we control the amount of work done [ we definitely thus limit the damping effect on the pendulum .] So on my model , I conclude that whatever work done at the output is definitely extracted from the pendulum with a best efficiency of 60% . Can anyone show a higher efficiency using the same methods please ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 04, 2012, 11:01:53 PM
Hey neptune,
 I have built a decent size tsmo, and I can tell you that if you want to get serious with a large model, be prepared to pay. To use the dimesions that fishman says may be hard.  i don't agree with him about the actaul length of the pendulum, I feel it is the weight and leverage ratio's that are what is important. As I have said before, I had a small model that worked so well, that it kind a sold me on this tsmo idea. Another thing that was interesting was water pumping. They numbers I figured on some of my water pumping experiments seeemed promising. If you read/ Search "escapements wiki", you will read about a liquid driven escapement that is very old. Calculating how much water I could raise, compared to how much I could pump seemed workable. And undisputable if it worked. My newer pump designs seem like they will work better with air than water though and I am still gathering parts to give it a shot. Also neptune, If you have not already you should read Peter lindamanns model builder guide and watched rheads videos, you should. Raymond has a very good understanding of the tsmo, and he is an excellent person to talk to. To me, he has already done a lot of the measurements that you are trying to do, but I do not think that it is as easy to loop back the tsmo as everybody thinks it should be. Clokki's comments depress me a little bit, but she is right, Milkovic made the 12x claim, and to me, it looks good on paper, but show me what works.  I have half a dozen or more designs that work on phun, but I have found that making them work in real life is pretty tough. Some of my models show promise, but would put tremendous force on the bearings. so cheapies are almost out of the question. One more thing. Don't discount the " tuning", all models should be adjustable at every important part of the machine. To me the tuning is the key to optimum preformance.
 Gdez
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 05, 2012, 12:56:02 AM
I once opened a paper the group published, and even with my highschool psysics I could tell within seconds they were making up incorrect formulae with incorrect units of measurement as outcome. A waste of time. It's not up to us to school them, they are to school us.
 
If they know it so well, they'd build it. They sure have the building skills.
Making wild claims, and letting the world figure out a way to make it work, after which they can claim invention.
 
If they could point out the underlying math without (intentional or unintensional) errors, this forum would build a working device, 2SO or otherwise, instantly.
Present me a precise pendulum path and the amount of energy to be extracted from CF, and I'll tell you how to build the device to do so.
Same for the second stage (weren't we suppose to extract all those buckets of FE there?). Tell us how much to extract, and we will. Don't blame us when the result is a stalled 2SO.
This is no hint of FE, not even anomalous behavior that I'm aware of.

  Hi Cloxxki,
 Building is not always easy. Myself, I may need to move to a place where I will have room for equipment. Still, I have worked to learn what it will take to build what I believe has already been accomplished.
 With 2 pendulums, I don't think they claimed OU but as you mentioned would probably claim it as their invention and wrongly so. There might be a way for one pendulum to power another for an OU device. This is one reason why I like Tom's idea that was originally posted in the thread "Was Bessler for Real ?" as he wonders if it would lead to a working Bessler wheel.
 It seems credit is what some want while others are willing to help. That has always been one of the difficulties with what is supposedly at stake with such an invention. But I did post one aspect of a pendulum's behavior that everyone seems to have ignored. Actually 2 of them and both important in pursuing OU in my opinion..
 Myself, not sure when I can build again. For me, it is frustrating as I am tired of going over the math and concepts ad nauseum and would like to see what happens when rubber meets pavement.
 
                                                                                                                                Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 05, 2012, 01:40:24 AM
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
«
There are a few things that we can be sure of in life.

People who claim that they've made a perpetual motion machine are either delusional or a con artist.

Your machine did not achieve overunity.  Please tell me where the extra energy comes from so I can get a good laugh.

How do you explain this not perpetual motion pendulum but this extra work source of energy
in this pendulum below?  Norman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 05, 2012, 03:40:44 AM
@ norman,
  I suggest you Check out the escapements wiki also, i think that you'll see that we have already been using gravity, force, work, distance, etc for quite some time, as in several thousand years. Our ancestors built amazing works through knowledge of simple mathmatics and I am sure that we can do better. One observation that I feel is important with the tsmo is  the "moment of weightlessness". That is where I feel the tsmo gains it's power. I think that the argument about initial input put into the process are not important. It is no different then a gunshot. For a gun shot, think of the energy put in by accumulating the materials, mixing them, packaging them and then finally firing them. Same for oil and gas. I wish I would have done some better more reliable results with some of my earlier experiments, but I didn't. Some models work better off balance, some models seem to work better balanced. Some of my best models work off of "imbalance". Imbalance seems to be what all the bessler wheel fans seem to be aiming for, but most bessler wheels seem to aiming for just getting the wheel going around. Because of that, I have no interest in Bessler wheel stuff. From my research, a Bessler wheel just won't work. Even if it did, so what. I just don't see what use it would be to keep a wheel going around with no output. I have my own ideas, and I am willing to try to expain them to everybody, but I don't feel like getting bashed by evrybody about them. Milkovics ideas are sound to me, but the eccentric flywheel is where the power seems to be. In my trade ( industrial power and hvac),imbalance is the worst thing you can imagine. At high rpms, it can be very destructive. we strive to avoid that. Resonance? In a tall building, we spend many dollars and manhours to prevent "resonance" because the simple notion of an "unbalanced pump" can actaullly vibrate a building to death( much like tesla's supposed earth quake device). Lot's of questions, but the only way they are answered is by trying your ideas. Maybe imbalance is what we are looking for. Or a way to exploit it. Anyway @neptune, I am not trying to discourage you at all, I would like to show you some of my simulations and see what you think. Talk soon,Greg 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 05, 2012, 02:17:09 PM
Hi guys , some interesting posts today . It is true that building takes time and space and money . So to build some thing we need something to motivate us , that is we need to see some possibility of success . That is why I think it best to start with simple experiments to prove the principle . As stated in recent posts , I think looping is easy peasy , given proof of OU to motivate me . Just a quick word on off balance wheels versus pendulums .Fly wheels are easier to drive , and can be driven at any speed .The pendulum has one big advantage , in that it stops twice per cycle . This allows you to raise the pivot back up without fighting centrifugal force .
       I have read Peter Lindeman and studied Raymond Head [rhead100] In my opinion Raymond has done more for this technology than anyone else .Sadly we have not heard from him for months . I would love to contact him , but I do not know how.I have also been unsuccessful in contacting jovan Marjanovic .
      I am not a great mathematician . I feel that while maths has its place , it is useless unless what is predicted can be shown to work in reality .Regarding tuning the 2SO any practical advice that can be shown to improve performance would be valuable , especially if we can come up with some "rules of thumb"
      Regarding escapements . I find them fascinating . But I feel that to study them before proving OU in the most basic "single swing "tests , is a bit like looking at holiday brochures because you bought a lottery ticket , even though the results dont come out until the weekend.
@Fishman . I have had 24 hours to think about your theory that it takes less energy to maintain a pendulum by pushing the bob down as it descends as opposed to actually lifting the bob at the end of the stroke .Suppose we have a pendulum that has losses of wind and friction . We release it from the horizontal . After 1 swing we find that it rises to a point 1 cm below its start point . The pendulum weighs 1Kg . So to overcome losses we need to lift 1 KG by 1 cm . But you say that if we push it for 1 cm as it falls , with one third of a Kg , the result will be the same . If that is true, we have no need of the 2SO , because already we have a machine with an input of 1/3 Kg cm , and an output of 1Kg cm ; an OU factor of three .Do you agree or disagree ? Kind regards , Ken .
AN AFTER THOUGHT ON UNBALANCED WHEELS . The trick is to drive the wheel with an electric motor that is only just "boss of the job " . That way , the wheel is almost stopped at top dead centre , but at bottom dead centre its speed is greater than it would be if allowed to fall by gravity . With gravity alone , the weight , plus centrifugal force weighs 5 times normal . With the motor , it could be more .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 05, 2012, 02:35:09 PM
Neptune,
 
Thank you for your neutral response. I am aware I am depressing some really bright folks here. I am a truth seeker too though, and false hopes need to be crushed asap for enlightenment to have any chance.
 
Indeed, gymwork is hard, even if the weight seems to only oscillate.
HOWEVER.
When I'm bench pressing, I am not done when I've extended my elbows. I still have to do braking work on the way down, or the barbell will decapitate me. I don't NEED the weight to press down on my body as strongly, but I'm holding it, and can't deal with the impact upon muscle-less reset.
I am doing more work with doing 10 reps, than 10x the height of the ligt times the weight (and that of my arms' COM).
Up to 2x as much work, when the bar doesn't reach my chest.
 
The weight at the second stage is lifted, OK. This is work, for that moment. But the cycle is not over.
The weight is reset, coming down.
What is less obvious, is the work the weight coming down is performing.
It's in its turn resetting the pendulum.
Why? The pendulum delivered the work to raise the weight. Now the weight need to swing the pendulum back up.
If you measure well, you'll note that the weight on the way down is NOT in freefall.
 
If you were to unhook the weight at the top of it's oscillation, and at the same limit the vertical movement of the crossbar with a simple stop...
You could in 2SO theory le the weight do work for an external gravity extraction device. Place the weight where the 2SO is expecting it fo a lift, and let the cycle repeat.
This doesn't work, because the weight coming down is an (inefficient) way to give the pendulum back the energy it donated.

It all happens in a blink of the eye, impossible to see how the KE flows through the system, however simple it is in design.
 
Well, the claim was not infinite overunity, just 12x.
that would mean, in my above story, that only 1/12 of the weight were to be needed to keep the cycle going.
With a giant 2SO, 12 Gouda cheeses would be on the second stage. 11 taken off at top, and 11 new ones added at the bottom.
Or, you'd raise 12 cheeses, one would roll over the the pendulum side, and crash full-on against it. The other 11 cheeses were taken off the elevator at the top.
 
Your 60% measurement might well be, because the pendulum is more efficient in pulling on it's rod, lifting the second stage, than the second stage is efficient in accelerating a pendulum, connected via crossbar, back up to speed.
The pendulum pull straight in the direction of its CF, which is at close to 90º with the see-saw crossbar.
The second stage is also nicely vertical with a level crossbar, however the pendulum is not staying put.
 
I could see 10% of losses at the input side, and 30% on the feedback, to come to your 60%. (I know that's fuzzy math, but you get my drift.)
 
I admire the work done on escapements, especially by RHEAD. And I have little doubt that 95% efficiency will at one point be attained. That would be quite an engineering accomplishment. Perhaps it could be applied to engine systems, those are suffering from similar efficiency issues in mechanical force transfer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 05, 2012, 02:52:09 PM
Hi Cloxxki .Many thanks for your lengthy reply . It is true what you say about false hopes needing to be crushed . Your reply has important implications that will take me a while to fully understand , but I will reply when I have thought about it . I am 66 years old , and as you may have guessed I do not do a lot of bench pressing these days , although I still bike at least 10 miles every day . Later , Ken .
   ADDED LATER. Ok ,I can see how if the load weight is falling at a speed less than freefall , work input would be necessary . I did a short test to see if I could maintain or increase the pendulum amplitude by physically moving the beam . I started by raising the pendulum to about 30 degrees away from the vertical, and marking this position with a piece of wood . I then released the pendulum , and tried moving the beam in  way that was synchronised way with the pendulum , both at pendulum speed , and twice that speed . I tried various phasings . I was unable to maintain , let alone increase pendulum amplitude . This experiment was not conclusive because it was done by hand and eye . And yet if we just take a simple pendulum , we can drive it by hand and eye . Basically I understand and agree with your theory that to be OU the machine must lift a stream of weights in an elevator fashion . But I can not show a high efficiency even allowing the lifted weight yo fall , and [allegedly , perhaps ] and adding energy to the pendulum .Whilst a 95% efficient mechanism would have its uses , that is not what most of us are seeking .Can anyone show a pendulum maintained or increased in amplitude by moving the beam by hand ? Yours , still puzzled ,Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 05, 2012, 03:14:57 PM
Hi Cloxxki .Many thanks for your lengthy reply . It is true what you say about false hopes needing to be crushed . Your reply has important implications that will take me a while to fully understand , but I will reply when I have thought about it . I am 66 years old , and as you may have guessed I do not do a lot of bench pressing these days , although I still bike at least 10 miles every day . Later , Ken .
Funny, I know a Ken (R) of similar age in the US who works our quite a bit.
 
I am just 35. Too young to be wise, but hopefully young enough (and not bothered by any relevant education) to see through mental boobytraps.
 
Please don't regard me as a wise man in this subject, I just kick people's legs and see what they have to kick back with. Hoping to learn.
Do please ask me about any fuzzyness in my comments. My own insights are on a steep incline right now, hopefully uphill. A picture is forming. About time, considering how long its been hurting my brain.
 
I sure wish I'd be preaching why it DOES work. When I really get behind an idea (bugging the whole world about it), it usually becomes mainstream in 5-10 years time.
When I find (via forums such as these) someone's open source FE, I'm going to promote the heck out of it, and help develop it. Same with the 2SO, it someone can convince me of any level of OU (the hard part being done), I will design the escapement for it, and even donate whatever cash I have for a replicator to make it happen.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: F_Brown on January 05, 2012, 08:16:14 PM
I have been running simulations of a Milkovic type system with multibody dynamics modeling, and I have been getting 2x to 4x the input power at the output of the device, although I simulating in a zero gravity environment.  I have yet to model the system with gravity assist.  The output might increase in that case.

Since this this device seems to conflict with traditional ways of calculating efficiency, I suggest that actually physical testing of various setups be done.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 05, 2012, 08:28:29 PM
LATEST NEWS. Just spent an interesting 10 minutes in the workshop . 10 was long enough because its cold in there .In rough tests , I found that by decreasing the load weight , efficiency went up to 80 to 90 % .My initial idea was to use the heaviest weight it would lift , so as to delay weight lift until just before bottom dead centre .In practice , it looks like this is not the best idea , and extensive further tests are warranted with the current test rig . I plan to do loads of tests with different weights and lift distances , possibly plotting the results on a graph .
        I discovered something else . With practice , I CAN increase the pendulum amplitude by moving the pivot up and down by hand . With a short pendulum [1/2 metre ] things happen fast , and it is not easy to see just what is happening . What I THINK is happening is that for this to gain amplitude, the pivot has to be LOW at the pendulums bottom dead centre , and high at the stroke ends . I this is true it is OPPOSITE to what Jovan Marjanovic predicts in his paper"Keys to understanding the Gravity machines of Veljko Milkovic " I will test this out tomorrow with a 2 metre pendulum , namely a weight on a string , as anyone can . One thing is clear . For the lever to feed energy into the pendulum ,there has to be an exact phase relationship between the two .The question is , which I am working towards answering , is does this phase   .  relationship exist in a working 2SO .I am fed up with typing the word "pendulum" . Can I have an extra key fitted to do it for me ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 05, 2012, 09:17:27 PM
@F-Brown .It is interesting that you are getting positive results in simulation .As we have discussed in this thread , building things costs time and money , and we need to know that what we are building is of optimal design .I know virtually nothing about simulation , and i am guessing that you do not do a lot of building . I reckon that if we all worked together , great things could be achieved . You could help builders by pointing the way . Some of the things I ask you to simulate may be impossible , I just dont know . Each test I suggest should be tested with and without friction and aerodynamic drag . Try to simulate a simple device with the classic Milkovic design , namely a pendulum pivoted at one end of a see saw type beam , and a counterweight at the other end of the beam . Run it just long enough for the pendulum to make one swing , left to right .Start with pendulum horizontal .Limit the travel of the see saw to 5 degrees above and 5 degrees below horizontal .You can measure input by measuring how far the end position of the pendulum is below its start point . Output is weight of counterweight times amount it lifted . Questions I would like answered .
1 By what percentage of the pendulum length should the pivot be allowed to drop to give best efficiency -output over input .
2 I f the output arm of the seesaw is 3 times as long as the pendulum side , What value of coumterweight , expressed as a percentage of the pendulum weight gives best efficiency .
3 Given the ideal value of counterweight ,in each case , what is the ratio of seesaw arm lengths that gives best results .
 These are just 3 questions off the top of my head , and I will think of others , for example , what is the advantage , if any of having a pendulum start position ABOVE horizontal , for instance , an almost inverted position .
    Let us know if you think simulation can help with any of these questions .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: F_Brown on January 05, 2012, 11:51:51 PM
I'm modeling things a little differently than Milkovic's typical bicycle setup.  Here a couple of videos by some one else to give you the idea.  It's funny he fails to mention Milkovic and any of his videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9RtZfsuXg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9RtZfsuXg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNtEtBXYn0Q  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNtEtBXYn0Q)

In the second on he has the masses set up to be a frictional resistance.  The more like what I'm doing.

At first I calculated the energy required to push a mass back and forth in freespace, and the result was quite high.  Then I realized that figure was the energy recirculating in the oscillator system, like the large amount of energy that recirculates in a tank circuit, rather than the output energy.

To get the output energy, a resistance of some sort must be used.  In my models I am using a linear damper instead of the friction mass in the mentioned videos, and then calculate the energy dissipated in the damper.

I had to use a rotating mass like in these videos because I'm having trouble figuring out how to add input energy to a pendulum in the simulation software.

I give some thought to what I can do about your questions.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on January 06, 2012, 03:08:58 AM
Sounds great, although too vague (or complicated) for me to understand.
Could you please explain when and why pushing with gravity is advantageous, and in which frame? Time, Kinetic Energy, height, etc?
Formulae for pendulums, KE and CF are quite straightforward. If you see a gain, please offer the math?
 
If that were to be true, the 2SO is needlessly complicated. We could extract the excess on the left side of a simple pendulum, and use only part of it to input on the right, contact gain. I've seen other inventions on that premise, but never seen measured gains.

I don't agree that the TSO would be needlessly complicated , but if pushing with gravity is advantageous is true, i do agree it does lend credit to 2 other simpler more compact devices that i can think of. I do not have any math to supports that as you know my math skills are limited. I'm a build it, and test it guy, not a academic.  I will try to make a case for pushing with gravity is advantageous being true. But it will only make sense once you accept that the TSO is over 12 times OU, so i'll try to make that case first.

1. In the past you agreed and understood that the TSO's lever will rise and fall with or without a counter weight on it, as long as the lever was heavier on the CW side AND the bob was swung high enough right?

2. I think you also understood and agreed that in this video Raymond was clearly pushed his TSO with a force at least 10 times less than the movement of the counter weight, Right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8) (Raymond was Guss-tamating 20:1 but we will be conservative)

3. Do you still agree that IF the Counter Weight could free fall COMPLETLY INDEPENDENTLY of the TSO,  that this would be OU of over 10xs?

Your arguement as i understood it, was you don't know or think that the weight is free falling and that the pendulum is letting the CW down slower than a true free fall. And by it not free falling it is just a elaborate See-saw.

If we are in agreement so far all we have to do is to insure a 100% free fall of the Counter weight, to prove OU.           
So what If we catch the CW at it highest point, hold it there until the lever gets to bottom, then drop the CW that would be a free fall and there would be no debate weather work was being done.

There is a device used by mountain climbers i don't remember it's name, but it is used to connect ropes, 1 rope on one side, and another rope on the other. It has a release that requires just light pull (maybe 2 lbs of pull for 1/2" but could be less) and the ropes release, and what ever is on the other end free falls. I am sure you see how this device could be used with a TSO to insure the CW is 100% free fall.  I have used this release device with 400 lbs on one end and it releases with minimal force.                                 
I hope this makes some sense.  I'm not very good with English ether.
                       
 Roland
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 06, 2012, 01:50:33 PM
Hi Guys . @ Fishman . I think your last post was mainly addressed to Cloxxki . I hope you dont mind if I add my comments .First the device ised by mountain climbers . I dont know what climbers call it , but an identical device is used on sailing ships . Sailors call it a JAM CLEAT .Whilst this would do the job , my choice would be a linear ratchet , as used on a car hand brake .Personally I agree with your 3 conditions , except I have reservations about number 2 . I respect and trust Raymond Head . However it is possible that he is misleading himself here .Measuring hand push is not easy . We have to measure both pressure , and duration .We could roughly measure pressure using a kitchen scales to push with , and fitting it with a sort of moving marker to show the maximum position of the pointer . That would at least show the max push . If we arranged for an electrical contact to close each time the kitchen scales touched the pendulum , we could operate a buzzer or lamp , and work out the duration by video analyisis.At this stage , I think the 2SO is OU , but only with a factor of 3 rather than twelve . What Raymond shows is enough to convince me  of this .As earlier stated , I suggest the following way to allow independent falling of the counterweight .Mount said weight on a light weight arm the arm runs above the output arm of the main seesaw , and has its own pivot mounted on the seesaw just above the main beam pivot .So it is like a horizontal pendulum laying on half the seesaw .When it rises , it catches on a ratchet which holds it at its highest point . OK , I am going to play with my 2SO . Regards ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 06, 2012, 02:51:29 PM
Gents,
 
I think I should take distance from any dated comments I may have may with regards to the 2SO, as my current understand is less optimistic than when I first saw it.
 
I'd love the CW to free fall, and I know it will when unhooked. It's up there, it must come down. I am however unfortunately convinced that the pendulum will slow down greatly when not receiving the pull back from the CW.
At this stage I think there is a more efficient way to wind the pendulum back up, get closer to 100%, but I don't see 101% happening. Nothing is for free in the 2SO.
 
I may have missed something, but RHEAD's designs I've seen have impressive wind down times, and thus require little input to keep it going. The mass of the pendulum though, is already doing part of the lifting on the CW. Multiple pushes are required to get the oscillation going, full lift of the CW. When it lifts off, the 2SO has temporarily reached seesaw conditions with equal pull on each side. You'll agree that with 2 children in balance on a level see-saw, a little birdy doing a poo on the one's head will be enough to get signicant vertical lift on the opposing side. The poo side goes down also of course, losing about the same potential energy as the CW wins.
 
RHEAD's birdy poo pushes tip the 2SO over the balance point, and the CW is visually lifted.
Placed on a digital (limited vertical movement) scale though, I'm predicting you we'd see that the CW doesn't weigh as much on the crossbar as it may seem to be, even when seemingly resting on the scale. The 2SO itself and pendulum offer mass pulling on it.
What looks like 10x OU may in fact be a seesaw pulling a weight that is in fact 10x lighter than it seems to be.
 
Stick a strain gauge on the rope or bar between the CS and the crossbar. Or a spring and scale with sufficient range to support the CW through the oscillations.
I'll telling you the CW of, say, 100kg, isn't being supported by earth for all that 100kg when in contact. Did anyone ever weigh the CW with the pendulum hanging still? I think this should be part of any calcs or guesswork.
 
Take a small 2SO, and unhook the CW. Place your hand on the crossbar with contant pressure, and feel how you need to press down on it to keep the pendulum swinging at the other end. Or, how you can drive the pendulum from standstill by short bursts of pressure on the opposing crossbar.
It's quite simple as I see it:  the pendulum loses energy when it pulls the crossbar down. It loses height and possibly swing speed. Losing height would normally result increase of speed.
 
If OU is so obvious, an inventor or replicator will easily convince simple minds such as me.
Where to extract the excess energy? Tell me and I'll offer you a design for it. And as my understanding grows, i may add a hypothesis of results you'll achieve.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on January 06, 2012, 04:00:35 PM
Gents,
 
I think I should take distance from any dated comments I may have may with regards to the 2SO, as my current understand is less optimistic than when I first saw it.
 
I'd love the CW to free fall, and I know it will when unhooked. It's up there, it must come down. I am however unfortunately convinced that the pendulum will slow down greatly when not receiving the pull back from the CW.

Great point!, how did i not see that? I'll take some of that distance from dated comments also. Time for me look closer at the TSO.

@Ken, now i get where you are coming from better.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 06, 2012, 04:54:05 PM
Great point!, how did i not see that? I'll take some of that distance from dated comments also. Time for me look closer at the TSO.

@Ken, now i get where you are coming from better.
 
None of us did.
Because we HEARD the CW hammering loudly in early video's. Milkovic's device was made of steel, and I think the CW fell on steel.
Easy enough to let us presume the CW was hitting the resting point from free fall. How could it be any louder?
 
I bet if you add a pillow under the CW it become less impressive to first-time observers. The constant input to the pendulum will seem like a lot compare to the punches the pillow receives.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 06, 2012, 05:06:08 PM
OK guys , just come from the workshop . I am now convinced that the lever CAN feed energy back to the pendulum given the right phasing . It is very difficult to get the pendulum to swing from a standing start . However if you start it swinging in about a 30 degree arc ,You can increase its swing by manipulating the beam by hand . Move the beam so the the pivot of the pendulum is at its lowest when pendulum is at bottom dead center , and slightly higher [0.5 cms in my case ] each time the pendulum is at its highest point . Try it . This may be significant , as this is exactly the phasing of a working 2SO .
       At Cloxxki . I have not yet 100% grasped your last post yet . However some tests I did today are connected with what I think you are saying . On my model , the up and down movement of the beam is limited by 2 adjustable stops . With no counterweight , the beam was in the UP position .To make it sit in the down position I have added 200 grams to the output end , which MUST NOT  be counted as part of the CW . The CW is limited by the stops to a vertical lift of 1.5 cms . The pendulum loses about 0.5 cm height in one swing . So input was 0.5 Kg cms [pend weighs 1 kg] .output is 350 grams x 1.5  cm = 0.425 Kg cms .or about 85 % efficient .Exact measurement is hard with poor eyesight , but that is my estimate . What I am saying is that to be fair , the beam must fall down WITHOUT the CW . Regards Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 06, 2012, 05:29:24 PM
Dad Gorilla is taking care of some pressing banana business, using a see-saw as his branch.
"Ah, good to have me feet of the ground for a moment"
 
Little does he know, own of his sight, Baby Gorilla has found that he in now in fact big enough to leap and hang off the see-saw's opposing seat. He was hoping to send Dad flying, but in fact Dad didn't even notice anything.
 
Baby doesn't give up that easily though, he knows a fun game when he sees one. By lack off a swing, he uses his long arms as a swing!
"Hmm, it's harder on my hands to keep a grip when I swing"

There he goes, higher, and higher.
Dad still doesn't notice, this banana erally is outstanding. He wants more of these, and ponders which exact tree he got it from earlier.
 
Then, after a prticularly high swing, just as Baby makes a low pass, he feels resistance from the swing diminishing. It came down! Dad was lifted for a moment! Not launched, but it sure was a good effort.
"Hey, what's going on back there?! Let a man eat his banana in peach".

Little does dad know, his bright son just invented undisputed overunity.
 
Baby lets go of the seat, and makes a little jump. Swinging is fun, but very tiresome. Especially when you lift your dad at the same time.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 06, 2012, 05:52:06 PM
OK guys , just come from the workshop . I am now convinced that the lever CAN feed energy back to the pendulum given the right phasing . It is very difficult to get the pendulum to swing from a standing start . However if you start it swinging in about a 30 degree arc ,You can increase its swing by manipulating the beam by hand . Move the beam so the the pivot of the pendulum is at its lowest when pendulum is at bottom dead center , and slightly higher [0.5 cms in my case ] each time the pendulum is at its highest point . Try it . This may be significant , as this is exactly the phasing of a working 2SO .
       At Cloxxki . I have not yet 100% grasped your last post yet . However some tests I did today are connected with what I think you are saying . On my model , the up and down movement of the beam is limited by 2 adjustable stops . With no counterweight , the beam was in the UP position .To make it sit in the down position I have added 200 grams to the output end , which MUST NOT  be counted as part of the CW . The CW is limited by the stops to a vertical lift of 1.5 cms . The pendulum loses about 0.5 cm height in one swing . So input was 0.5 Kg cms [pend weighs 1 kg] .output is 350 grams x 1.5  cm = 0.425 Kg cms .or about 85 % efficient .Exact measurement is hard with poor eyesight , but that is my estimate . What I am saying is that to be fair , the beam must fall down WITHOUT the CW . Regards Ken .
Thanks for testing.
With the crossbar level and the pendulum in rest, it's indeed hard to get it swinging. A non-level crossbar would surely get it going eventually, due to increased lateral movement of the pendulum pivot.
 
The way I currently see it (it's not gospel or fact by any means), the CW's main job is keep the crossbar down. The pendulum side with otherwise come down, crossbar up, and you've found.
Just by existing, the pendulum pulls on the CW via the central pivot and stiff bar, reducing the CW's load on its resting platform.
Indeed the 2nd stage side is perfectly timed to offer the pendulum feedback.
 
Another simple test would be with a CW that hammers its support. Make two clay balls, same size and shape. Get one impact of the CW in oscillation to squash it. A little cord gets it in place and away in time for the next strike.
Then do the same with a CW from the same high, in freefall. Is there is difference?
With a small device, the hand can be the guinea pig. I can tell the result. The oscillation's hammering action is greatly reduced, first from the weight of the pendulum itself, and possibly more from its CF pull and/or velocity change during the CW's downward movement.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 06, 2012, 07:09:59 PM
As I probably said before , it is alleged that we can put a man on the moon , but after more than a decade , no one has really got to the bottom of the 2SO . I liked the Gorilla story , but one could conclude from that that you believe the 2SO is OU , and I do not believe that you do . I think that OU is possible in the 2SO , but so far only R. Head has come close to proving it . Perhaps there is a critical size of machine needed to show OU . I have convinced myself that efficiency of around 90% is possible . But even 99.99999999999& is not OU .
        The big question for me , is where to go from here .As previously stated I have constraints of space money and health . I keep thinking about off balance wheels or pendulums swinging through 350 degrees . These are similar but not quite the same . In both cases the centrifugal component is double that of a pendulum with a 180 degree arc . The question is , at what cost . If I can find a scrap bike for parts , I may give it a go . The other problem I have , is having only one working eye , I no longer dare to use my arc welder .I will find a way . Later, Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 06, 2012, 07:38:44 PM
I thought using monkeys as inventors of OU would be enough to make clear that I am ridiculing the OU claim of OU. The little monkey is after all really tired, else he'd kept pestering his dad until he'd come off the see-saw and chase him down.
With Dad's side being supported by packed dirt, he won't feel his kid playing on the other side until there is a momentary overbalance there. Most seesaws have a car tire to dampen the impact. This offers some spring action, and you do feel load of the other side as you're being lifted tire-assisted for the first couple of inches.
Even if Dad's side is down to 1kg of load to the ground from 200kg without kid, the big Gorilla is not to know. The ground knows, but doesn't care.
The kid's intial leap to reach the seat does a signifant part of the work towards reaching balance. But he can swing all he wants, he can only get Dad to be lifted for a limited height, a short time. And he need to keep swinging, because Dad going back down isn't translated 100% in kid swinging back up again. This is why swinging is more tiresome than just hanging in a tree, enjoying the freedom. Kid can do that for minutes. Een swinging on a stiff branch is easier, no output, no limited feedback.
 
A 2SO where the CW rests fully on the ground, I think, might be one that has the pendulum come up 90º both sides. CW reaches 100% of load on ground for 2 infinitely short moments, each highest pendulum swing point. All the rest of the time, the pendulum has a force on the crossbar, which relieves the CW. In a 180º swing, it goes from doing nothing initially, slowly building up, and then after 45º start to ramp up the strain. After dead bottom, the other way around, quick diminishment, and in the last 45º there's hardly any support for the CW to speak off. On average, the pendulum does the same hanging still as swinging. I've seen experiments aimed at contesting that, but not convincingly.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: fishman on January 06, 2012, 09:11:58 PM
I built a TSO a while back i only wanted some clarity about the TSO. The problem was i built it my way.
I came to a concluesion based on both the standard Milkovic TSO and my crude version. anyway it does muddy up the clarity thing. It did not seem have any feedback push from the CW to the pendulum.

I know this wont help but i think it is worth sharing anyway. FWIW, that TSO is a bit different with the standard (Milkovic) TSO.
 
 It has no lever/crossbar on it. It is simply a pendulum with a bob, WITH a Sliding Weight on the swing-arm.
 The Sliding Weight was connected via pulleys to a counter weight. The weight slide up and down the swingarm and it would do so even without the CW attatched if you swung it past 95 degrees.
 It did work as expected, and performance would change with different amounts of bob weight. While i did not build it with bearings because i was only looking at the concept and not performance.

From what we have discussed here i think it may warrant re-visiting that design built the right way.  ???


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 07, 2012, 03:55:45 AM
I have worked out the basic physics of the Milkovic two stage oscillator as below.

the two stage components involved in its operation

x. leverage advantage of small pendulum weight to lift the heavy weight
x. lifted/stored work of the heavy weight
x. since the pendulum swings less and less each time
 ie. it does not swing as high as its dropped point.
 extra lift is required to get it back to the starting point
x. use the lifted/stored work to raise the pendulum high enough to get
back to its starting point



proposed test
 1. lift pendulum to a know stopping point and let it swing and get
 caught/latched at its furtherest swing by a oneway stopper/limiter.
 and mark that point.
 2. Then find out how much more additional lift is required to get the
 pendulum back where it started.
 3. Then catch the lifted weight in its up position with a stopper/limiter
 and see if the stored weight can lift the pendulum up to the required
  point measured in 2 above to get it back to where it started.

Then If the force in 3 is adequate then it will self run if the switching forces are not too high.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 07, 2012, 03:26:03 PM
@Norman6538 . It was interesting to read of your proposed tests in the above post .The thing is , If you read my recent posts ,that I have done theses tests , at least partly , in practice rather than theory . Rather than actually catch the pendulum at the far end of its swing , I make it move a a marker to show its highest point , and then catch it by hand to stop the swing . What I have not yet done is build the device to hold the counterweight CW in the highest position .So the falling CW MAY be feeding energy back to the pendulum > I know that this can happen [see my recent posts . ] So being pessimistic , lets say that it does feed back . Even , so , the best efficiency I can demonstrate is below 90% . So the particular model I built is nowhere near capable of looping
 @ Fishman .Thanks for describing your work . You do not say if this work lead you to the conclusion that your decice was OU or not .Also you have not replied to my bit in a previous post where I try to disprove your theory about pushing down with gravity is more efficient than direct lifting .Please let me know what you think .
  I have a theory buzzing around in my head about why efficiency might actually improve with pendulum weight .When I get it sorted out , I will write about it later .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 07, 2012, 07:33:57 PM
@ Fishman . would it be possible to show a diagram of your version of the 2SO please . I am finding it hard to visualise .
     In one his videos rhead 100 says that if we make a pendulum heavier without altering its length or aerodynamic profile , it obviously takes more energy to raise it to its start position . This is true . but than he says that it takes no more energy to maintain its amplitude .  . If you look through his videos , you will find one entitled something like " Weight of pendulum does matter" , and he shows some experiments with a bike wheel . The video is a bit muddled and needs editing because he has a problem with the bearings . Watch the second half . He has two weights of identical size but one is twice the weight of the other . He makes a pendulum by attaching each weight in turn to the wheel rim . He shows that with the heavier weight , the pendulum makes twice as many strokes before stopping . Look carefully and you will see that the heavier pendulum loses less height per stroke than the lighter one . So to maintain its amplitude , we would only need to lift the weight half as far .But it weighs TWICE AS MUCH so therefore the energy input is the same for both pendulums . So Raymond looks to be right on this . The centrifugal force on the larger pendulum will be double , but the 2SO will need twice the "dead weight" on the output arm to balance the system BEFORE we add the counterweight to balance the system .So , I think that there is no real gain from a heavier pendulum, if as I suspect , centrifugal force is directly proportional to weight .Her are the results of a crude experiment I did today . I turned my bike upside down , and made the front wheel into a pendulum by attching a number of microwave oven magnets to the rim in a cluster . In each test , I started with the weight at the top , and let it do almost a full turn until it stopped .The wheel has 36 spokes , and so , 36 gaps between spokes . By counting the gaps we can see by how much the wheel stopped short of top dead centre . each gap is 10 degrees .
       Number of Magnets                          Degrees away from top dead centre at end of swing
     1                                                      35
     2                                                      35
     3                                                        33
     4                                                        25


    6                                                         20
    8                                                         15
 From this crude data we can see that as the weight increases , the height loss per swing decreases  . In a perfect test the relation ship is probably a directly proportional one , but here we are testing not a pure pendulum , but one with an attached flywheel I just realised a made a mistake , I should have measure the VERTICAL HEIGHT short of TDC rather than the angle . Doing this would bring the data more in line with the theory ..Can anyone tell me for sure , is centrifugal force directly proportional to weight ?
 ADDED LATER .  I just repeated the experiment with vertical measurements . As near as I can measure, if we double the weight , the vertical distance short of TDC is halved , as I suspected .
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 07, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
   ..Can anyone tell me for sure , is centrifugal force directly proportional to weight ?

 Normally I would say yes, but there is a catch.
 Basically, when it is above the level of the axle, then it's radial postion to the axis would help to calculate it's loss of inertia.
And usually when g-force/cf/inertia is considered, it's at much higher values than what we would consider.
 There is a video by MIT that shows a spinning bycicle wheel turning perpendicular to gravity because of it's inertia. But with speeds below and either going with the flow of gravity or in opposition to it, the weight's radial position would affect the cf potential.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 08, 2012, 07:14:02 PM
Hi Johnny and thanks for that input . I am not so hot on mathematics , but I found a simple formula that will help me . Aparrently , centrifugal force = mass x velocity squared , and divide the result by Radius .I am hunting parts to build an off balance wheel model , but need to get some local help with welding . I have reached the reluctant conclusion that in its basic form , the 2SO is not overunity . I think Milkovic`s pump just makes the pumping easier because it is a more convenient way to do the job .I also think at this stage that my hero , Raymond Head has got his calculations wrong . In a video he shows a 140 pound pendulum lifting  a claimed 70 pounds , with an estimated hand push of about 10 pounds . His lever is 3 to 1 . So in reality , about 50 pounds of the "load "is used to balance the static weight of the pendulum , and the real load is 70 minus 50 = 20 pounds .
         With a fully rotating pendulum , as opposed to an oscillating one , The bob has a down force at bottom dead centre of 5 times its static weight . The big question is of course , what price has to be paid for that increase . My next quest is to answer that question .


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 09, 2012, 12:19:02 AM
You have GOT to be kidding me...


An increased pendulum weight, all else being equal resulting in more swings? A proof of improved efficiency, a path towards findimg overunity?
How in the world is the pendulum to extract all that added kinectic energy in the same number of swings?
All a heavier pendulum does, is take a bigger weapon to fight more or less unchanged enemy: air drag.


Please don't allow inventors to go into fuzzy science. Especially if they compain about lack of funding and needing to upscale.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 09, 2012, 01:28:02 AM
Neptune you are absolutely right about the wrong numbers from Raymond Head.


Neptune how did you get the 5:1 ratio in this statement?
"With a fully rotating pendulum , as opposed to an oscillating one ,
          The bob has a down force at bottom dead centre of 5 times its static
          weight ."

 
I did my suggested tests and they do not look promising but will continue to persue that.
I was very disappointed to see a short pendulum swing seriously dampen the pendulum cycles. A longer swing
was more consistant with a regular pendulum.
Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 09, 2012, 01:28:49 PM
Hi Johnny and thanks for that input . I am not so hot on mathematics , but I found a simple formula that will help me . Aparrently , centrifugal force = mass x velocity squared , and divide the result by Radius .I am hunting parts to build an off balance wheel model , but need to get some local help with welding . I have reached the reluctant conclusion that in its basic form , the 2SO is not overunity . I think Milkovic`s pump just makes the pumping easier because it is a more convenient way to do the job .I also think at this stage that my hero , Raymond Head has got his calculations wrong . In a video he shows a 140 pound pendulum lifting  a claimed 70 pounds , with an estimated hand push of about 10 pounds . His lever is 3 to 1 . So in reality , about 50 pounds of the "load "is used to balance the static weight of the pendulum , and the real load is 70 minus 50 = 20 pounds .
         With a fully rotating pendulum , as opposed to an oscillating one , The bob has a down force at bottom dead centre of 5 times its static weight . The big question is of course , what price has to be paid for that increase . My next quest is to answer that question .

   Neptune,
 What the math ignores is a velocity less than a (acceleration of gravity) and not being perpendicular to it.
A weight moving towards top center could have no cf.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 09, 2012, 01:57:58 PM
@Cloxxki . If you read exactly what I said that I did not claim that a heavier pendulum was more efficient , merely that it makes more swings before stopping .Indeed I was at pains to point out why I felt that a heavier pendulum would not give more efficiency .
 @Norman . You asked where I got the fact That in a fully rotating pendulum ,the bob weighs 5 times normal . This was a direct quote from the paper by Jovan Marjanovic . It would make sense to me because , in a pendulum released from horizontal , the figure is 3 . Pendulum frequency is [almost] independent of amplitude . The time taken for a high amplitude swing is the same as for a low amplitude swing . So , with a maximum swing , the speed will be faster at bottom dead centre , and as centrifugal force = M Vsquared over radius , The centrifugal force will be proportional to the velocity squared . So if the velocity were doubled [which it is not ] C force is multiplied by 8 . Anyone agree/disagree ? As I said last time , what matters is what price we have to pay .
  @Johnny874 . You say that a weight moving towards top dead centre can have no CF . That may be no bad thing . After the bob rises above horizontal we have already harvested the CF at max velocity , and are going into the beam reset phase . The main gain above the horizontal is when the bob is falling , and gaining extra acceleration towards bottom dead centre . Laters , Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 09, 2012, 03:09:00 PM
@neptune
I was not attacking you in person, only anyone who'd come up or believe such a notice without making remarks.
 
Both the inventor and prime replicator practice fuzzy math, and are left manually pushing a device with no output work, which in theory should be swinging at least as well as a simple pendulum (indefinitely), yet doesn't.
 
I see the @SO extracting energy from a pendulum by moving it pivot up and down, along a slight curve. But there doesn't seem to be any useful output. If the CW hits a surface, I suppose that's the "work" done, create vibrations. If a frictionless 2SO (magnetic pivots, inside vacume chamber) would have the CW swinging freely, I actually wuld not know why the 2SO would slow down. If it did, I would probably learn stuff about efficiency of energy transfer.
 
Think of an engine's crank shaft. Input from the cylinder is only temporarily available, less than perfect leverage (only 90º is) will result in energy loss through heat. A dropping CW has energy to transfer, but will it always go 100% somewhere useful within the system? I fear there are going to be losses unless elaborate escapements and added.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 09, 2012, 07:50:00 PM
@Cloxxki . No worries , no offence taken . Raymond Head admits that he is not the worlds best mathematician , and indeed has asked for help on at least one of his videos . But the great thing is that he gets stuck in and builds things . I have come to the conclusion that even those who claim to be professional mathematicians  are still confused about this device . Mathematical proofs of the OU of the 2SO are a dime a dozen .But where is the self runner . At least Jovan Marjanovic , the mathematician has built small wooden models .At this time , I am fairly sure that the 2so is not overunity . I am not sure if it might be using a rotating pendulum , and so, rather than try to calculate , I intend to do practical tests . I had a sudden burst of energy today , and made a start on my new rotary model . I work on a zero budget using 100% recycled parts . I found a nice piece of timber yesterday whilst out cycling , and that inspired me to get started. I also did an experiment today . I inverted my bicycle and added a 1 KG weight to the front wheel . I put the bathroom scales under the handlebar . At bottom dead centre , the scales showed a weight gain of about 4 Kg . Watch this space .
Regards to all , Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 10, 2012, 01:50:56 AM
@Cloxxki . No worries , no offence taken . Raymond Head admits that he is not the worlds best mathematician , and indeed has asked for help on at least one of his videos . But the great thing is that he gets stuck in and builds things . I have come to the conclusion that even those who claim to be professional mathematicians  are still confused about this device . Mathematical proofs of the OU of the 2SO are a dime a dozen .But where is the self runner . At least Jovan Marjanovic , the mathematician has built small wooden models .At this time , I am fairly sure that the 2so is not overunity . I am not sure if it might be using a rotating pendulum , and so, rather than try to calculate , I intend to do practical tests . I had a sudden burst of energy today , and made a start on my new rotary model . I work on a zero budget using 100% recycled parts . I found a nice piece of timber yesterday whilst out cycling , and that inspired me to get started. I also did an experiment today . I inverted my bicycle and added a 1 KG weight to the front wheel . I put the bathroom scales under the handlebar . At bottom dead centre , the scales showed a weight gain of about 4 Kg . Watch this space .
Regards to all , Ken .

   Neptune,
 >>   I also did an experiment today . I inverted my bicycle and added a 1 KG weight to the front wheel . I put the bathroom scales under the handlebar . At bottom dead centre , the scales showed a weight gain of about 4 Kg . Watch this space . <<
 
  NOT POSSIBLE ! You posted the math yourself that shows that centrifugal force is relative to mass. If you noticed, the mv^2 was Liebniz's calculation for momentum. As such, for a 1kg weight to have 2 kg's of force, the math you said supports you states that it would have to fall 9.87 meters. To have the force of 4 kg's, it would have to fall 2 x 9.87 meters or 19.74 meters to have the force you measured.
 I think this is why some like myself have taken the time to learn how math and science either supports or does not support our efforts. It's a time saver and leads to better idea's.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 10, 2012, 11:34:50 AM

   Neptune,
 >>   I also did an experiment today . I inverted my bicycle and added a 1 KG weight to the front wheel . I put the bathroom scales under the handlebar . At bottom dead centre , the scales showed a weight gain of about 4 Kg . Watch this space . <<
 
  NOT POSSIBLE ! You posted the math yourself that shows that centrifugal force is relative to mass. If you noticed, the mv^2 was Liebniz's calculation for momentum. As such, for a 1kg weight to have 2 kg's of force, the math you said supports you states that it would have to fall 9.87 meters. To have the force of 4 kg's, it would have to fall 2 x 9.87 meters or 19.74 meters to have the force you measured.
 I think this is why some like myself have taken the time to learn how math and science either supports or does not support our efforts. It's a time saver and leads to better idea's.
Jim, without knowing the turning speed of the wheel, you can't say it's impossible to read 4kgs.
If the scales would have datalogging with infinitely high resolution and refresh rate, I can tell you over the duration of one full cycle, it would register exactly 1kg providing consistant cycles.   
In Neptune's case, the rest of the setup (bike) probably weighed enough to keep it grounded. A lightweight setup would just bounce, or when fixed to the scale, register negative weight for part of the cycle.
 
Take a simple 1kg weight, suspend it from a spring fish scale, and press some clay onto the gauge. Give it some really good swings either in the horizontal or vertical plane, and read the gauge's clay impression. Be prepared to be impressed, end suffer a tennis arm injury in the process.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 10, 2012, 11:43:15 AM
Neptune, I think scientists and pseudo-scientist think too hard about the 2SO.
 
As I see it now, a physics teacher in college should be able to present the 2SO to students, and ask them to express it in formulae. I am tempted to do it myself, and consider I would have to dig up each and every part-formulae from the internet, by utter lack of knowledge.
It really is not that complicated, and for initial math approach, the crossbar could be enhanced to have the pivots on either ends be restricted to move only in a vertical plane, with constant crossbar length.
 
Important starting point is the CW. Is it supported or suspended freely. weight of pendulum and CW, and lenth of pendulul en the 2 pivots from the central crossbar pivot.
 
I think it only gets complicated when the professor hints students the answer will prove significant overunity and conservation of energy as a result will not get them a pass for the exam. Then they need to get into fuzzy math. Answer are to range from 3.75 to 12x overunity, it turns out :-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 10, 2012, 01:23:55 PM
Jim, without knowing the turning speed of the wheel, you can't say it's impossible to read 4kgs.
If the scales would have datalogging with infinitely high resolution and refresh rate, I can tell you over the duration of one full cycle, it would register exactly 1kg providing consistant cycles.   
In Neptune's case, the rest of the setup (bike) probably weighed enough to keep it grounded. A lightweight setup would just bounce, or when fixed to the scale, register negative weight for part of the cycle.
 
Take a simple 1kg weight, suspend it from a spring fish scale, and press some clay onto the gauge. Give it some really good swings either in the horizontal or vertical plane, and read the gauge's clay impression. Be prepared to be impressed, end suffer a tennis arm injury in the process.

   Cloxxki,
 If he spun the bicycle wheel by hand to achieve a velocity of 9.87m/s, it is on him to make that statement. He did not. A weight falling while attached to a bicycle wheel with a radius of 25cm could not reach such a velocity.
 And if he wishes to be critical of people who use math, his "experiments" need to be accomplished adhering to some type of standard.

                                                                                                                 Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 10, 2012, 04:22:48 PM
   Cloxxki,
 If he spun the bicycle wheel by hand to achieve a velocity of 9.87m/s, it is on him to make that statement. He did not. A weight falling while attached to a bicycle wheel with a radius of 25cm could not reach such a velocity.
 And if he wishes to be critical of people who use math, his "experiments" need to be accomplished adhering to some type of standard.

                                                                                                                 Jim
Hi Jim,
 
Let's start by seeing the example as it is. 1G we get for free, the scale is placed level. That's 1kg right there.
 
Then, the CF part.
I am going to presume a high speed spin on the wheel. 5m/s at 0,25m from the axle (not a very big wheel, weight sitting against wheel). I am expecting violence from that, having some cycling experience.
 
 
Wiki gave me:
 
Fc= (m*v²)/r
Fc= (1 * 5²)/0.25 = 100N
100N ~ 10kg.
Plus the one for a vertically placed scale, makes ~11kg of scale pressure.

I tend to mess up math, so please correct me.
 
Please note the difference between KE from an earth's free fall and the CF from a weight taking a sharp turn.
Consider that a weight falling to a little wheel at 5m/s downward, and existing 5m/s upward, accelerated vertically in the time it takes to make half a revolution. Wet finger in the wind math: pi*0.25=0,8m on the wheel during half revolution, or 0.16s. Average (!) vertical acceleration is 10/0.16=60m/s or >5x G extra on top of the 5m/s it had.
 
My gut tells me the peak pressure at top bottom, in fact identical to the constantly spun weight, will amount to twice the acceleration because often 2's end up in useful formulae. I'd have to dig it up, though, but there'd offer the 11 figure I found above for you. :-)
 
Calculating back the velocity Neptune's wheel was spinning for you is a matter of reversing the formula. I am getting ~2.73m/s right now.
 
Fc= (1*2.73²)/.25=7.5*4=30N (~3kg). Add the 1kg for the level scales and there's your 4kg peak pressure.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 10, 2012, 06:25:57 PM
Hi Jim,
 
Let's start by seeing the example as it is. 1G we get for free, the scale is placed level. That's 1kg right there.
 
Then, the CF part.
I am going to presume a high speed spin on the wheel. 5m/s at 0,25m from the axle (not a very big wheel, weight sitting against wheel). I am expecting violence from that, having some cycling experience.
 
 
Wiki gave me:
 
Fc= (m*v²)/r
Fc= (1 * 5²)/0.25 = 100N
100N ~ 10kg.
Plus the one for a vertically placed scale, makes ~11kg of scale pressure.

I tend to mess up math, so please correct me.
 
Please note the difference between KE from an earth's free fall and the CF from a weight taking a sharp turn.
Consider that a weight falling to a little wheel at 5m/s downward, and existing 5m/s upward, accelerated vertically in the time it takes to make half a revolution. Wet finger in the wind math: pi*0.25=0,8m on the wheel during half revolution, or 0.16s. Average (!) vertical acceleration is 10/0.16=60m/s or >5x G extra on top of the 5m/s it had.
 
My gut tells me the peak pressure at top bottom, in fact identical to the constantly spun weight, will amount to twice the acceleration because often 2's end up in useful formulae. I'd have to dig it up, though, but there'd offer the 11 figure I found above for you. :-)
 
Calculating back the velocity Neptune's wheel was spinning for you is a matter of reversing the formula. I am getting ~2.73m/s right now.
 
Fc= (1*2.73²)/.25=7.5*4=30N (~3kg). Add the 1kg for the level scales and there's your 4kg peak pressure.

   Cloxxki,
 Correct me if I am wrong, but are we posting in a gravity powered section ? If so, hand spinning does not help to understand whether or not things work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 10, 2012, 07:02:17 PM
HI Guys , well if nothing else , I stirred up a hornets nest here , or shall we better say ,stimulated some lively controversy and discussion , which as long as there is no name-calling , which is the case , then this can only be a positive thing . The wheel was only allowed to spin under the influence of gravity .
      I will be the first to admit that the experiment was less than perfect . The weight consisted of 8 microwave oven magnets near the rim on a 26 inch wheel . The real problem was that the scales only supported the handlebar , and the seat was on the ground acting as a pivot . The bike was so unstable in this position that I actually had to support it a bit with my hand . What a crap experiment , you will say . But the point is that I actually did the experiment .I have nothing but admiration for Mathematicians . My problem is with mathematical theories that have no relationship with what happens in the real world . Virtually everyone has access to a bicycle and a bathroom scale . If you have nothing else to improvise a !KG weight , use a plastic bag of sand , or a 1 Litre bottle of water . If you think my set up was imperfect , which it was , then improve on it . Get a result . And then , if you so desire , write pages and pages of formulae to support your results . The more actual experiments that are done , the more reliable the data . What do you say , fellows ?
Regards , Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 10, 2012, 09:24:04 PM
HI Guys , well if nothing else , I stirred up a hornets nest here , or shall we better say ,stimulated some lively controversy and discussion , which as long as there is no name-calling , which is the case , then this can only be a positive thing . The wheel was only allowed to spin under the influence of gravity .
      I will be the first to admit that the experiment was less than perfect . The weight consisted of 8 microwave oven magnets near the rim on a 26 inch wheel . The real problem was that the scales only supported the handlebar , and the seat was on the ground acting as a pivot . The bike was so unstable in this position that I actually had to support it a bit with my hand . What a crap experiment , you will say . But the point is that I actually did the experiment .I have nothing but admiration for Mathematicians . My problem is with mathematical theories that have no relationship with what happens in the real world . Virtually everyone has access to a bicycle and a bathroom scale . If you have nothing else to improvise a !KG weight , use a plastic bag of sand , or a 1 Litre bottle of water . If you think my set up was imperfect , which it was , then improve on it . Get a result . And then , if you so desire , write pages and pages of formulae to support your results . The more actual experiments that are done , the more reliable the data . What do you say , fellows ?
Regards , Ken .

  Doubt it was gravity powered. If you check the first post which Stefan did, there is a link to a discussion about what you say you understand. It is the basis for the TSO. I have visited his web site and while he wondered how to loop back any gain, he at no time claimed to be pursuing OU.
 What he realized is that cf increased the efficiency of a weight on a  pendulum which allowed it to operate hand pumps more efficiently. For his work, he did receive recognition.
 As for myself, I do have a legit build I am doing which will work much better than this even though you disagree. And it is by considering math before building that helped me to understand how the different forces might best be used. Your way is to vague. No pictures or videos. You rely on everyone else to fill in your blanks so you can say, you've learned what I knew. You and AB Hammer would get along great. You both reject engineering and math. Bye
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 10, 2012, 09:41:14 PM
@Johnny874 .What a strange post ! I have no doubt whatever that it was gravity powered , and I had the distinct advantage of being there at the time . I rely on everyone else to fill in my blanks ? Is that not what this forum is about . Any claims that I make , I am never pedantic , and am willing to learn . No pictures or videos ? When I build something worth showing , I will show it . I have never knowingly rejected engineering or mathematics . Until I lost the sight of my left eye , I made my living as a self employed Engineer . You have a legitimate build even though I disagree ? How can I disagree since as far as I know you have shown neither pictures nor videos . My way is too vague ? My way is limited by the state of my health and lack of finances . My way is my way and your way is your way . There is room for different approaches . There is nothing to be gained by animosity . I shall continue with my experiments as I see fit , and of course people are free to agree or disagree with the results as they see fit . Regards , Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 11, 2012, 01:08:32 AM
  Neptune,
I have shown pictures of what I am working on. Always have.
I have the same problems you do. No one has ever allowed me to use them as an excuse.
                                                                                                                                                        Jim
 
edited to add: Neptune, when i was going through chemo and radiation therapy, I was the only person building. I did not let cancer stop me from what I had started and this is why I am going to finish this build of mine as I am able. The details will be important. It will after all be a machine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 11, 2012, 01:52:46 AM
  @All,
 Most people give up on ideas. The reality is sticking with one is like going to school. If you don't like homework, you won't like it. It can be as bad as a second job.
 The idea of Tom's that I modified I sent to the guy who did the TSO. He has the means to try it and it is something like he is looking for. The idea is posted in it's own thtread.
 For what I am building, I have tolerated much harassment and medical issues. And now I might slow down.
 I was hoping other people might understand the hydraulic theory behind it but no one has.
Bessler's 300th Anniverasry is June 15th of this year. I may let it pass as I have a lot of things left undone in my own life because of medical problems.
 
 @Neptune, I built as I could and was heavily criticized for it. And as Mohamed said, the fat man does not understand the thin man when he says he hungers. This simply means that people who have families will not udnerstand my situation.
 I know the engineering is right but may give the inventor of the TSO the time he needs.
 
                                                                           Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 11, 2012, 04:17:26 AM
 @ everyone
 I'm really starting to enjoy this thread because if nothing else, someone is going to DISPROVE/Approve Milkovic's ideas sooner then later.He still has all his awards, and why? Because no one has proven him wrong yet. I am going to do my part by starting a new project. I already have plans and dimensions for a pinwheel escapent for the tsmo, that was recommended by Ben Van DE wall( A master of escapements). It adds power on both sides of the pendulum swing and I think it will prove once and for all wether This s%$t works or not. I think that alot of people don't understand that Rhead100 was trying to use an escapement to measure the excact power it took to drive the pendulum, and then see what you have leftover. I posted a new vid tonite. Take a look at it and think. In this model, how much work can I get out of the spring, compared to what it takes to "launch it.? Between the TSMO and eccentric flywheels, I think there is a lot of unanswered questions.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 11, 2012, 11:54:36 AM
@Jim
You are a brilliant and motivated experimenter and builder (whom I greatly respect for tham), but really unwise when it comes to engaging people in conclict situations. You even actively pick these conflicts. No-one cares who was unfriendly first, way back when.
I strongly advise you to stick to science, and refrain from responding to any perceived animosity. It doesn't work for you, clearly. It is not your hearing disorder, it is you being very, very touchy, taking any possible change to take things personally and run it through your own filter to give them a pre-determined meaning.
 
@gdez
What will it take to prove the 2SO as under-unity?
The inventor's team will keep claiming it was done all wrong, we failed to harvest the obviously hidden energy, just let it flow right through our fingers.
Perhaps the key is in measuring the effect on the pendulum. The energy it loses during it lift. And it in fact COSTS to make such a lift, with a dummy weight to replace the pendulum. What the CW really weighs to the platform supporting it, and how hard the wire already pull before the pendulum does any swinging.
the duration of the temporary lift, and how much of the rebound is required and actually used to drive the pendulum. Can half the CW effect the rebound action of swinging the pendulum back up?
 
Tell me if I can contribute. I don't have tools or money, but I have time and an open mind, not hindered by any indoctrination of an education.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 11, 2012, 01:37:38 PM
@Johnny874 . I am genuinely sorry to hear about your health problems .To me , the family has always been the mainspring of my life , and I feel more than blessed in this department , so much so that I cannot imagine life without my wife , children and grandchildren .I feel that the importance of technology , mathematics and engineering is irrelevent unless we can all work together without calling each other names . It is often difficult to make someone else understand our ideas , even with diagrams and videos . Nobody knows everything about Free energy. If they did , we would have cracked it years ago .Whist being aware of my own limitations , I will say that I have yet to meet a person from whom I could learn nothing , including the "Village Idiot " . So it is vital that we all retain an open mind , and be willing to change our minds , should circumstances warrant it .
 So let us all try to get along together .
      Regarding the 2so , at the moment , I think it is not OU , but am more than willing to be proved wrong on this . The other thing I have learned is to do my own experiments , rather than just believe what I am told .The great thing is for people to keep trying , and to discuss their work . Regards , Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 11, 2012, 02:25:49 PM
@Neptune
I admire your composure and commend your methods, working witht he skillset you happen to have.
 
What saddens me about the FE community, one can throw in a 2SO, stick an expensive OU label to it, and make it the burden of the community to make it work for them, and to disprove it. We're so eager for new viable ideas, that we'll chase such a ghost for years. I myself have gained a bit of insight by the 2SO, as would any proper riddle, but in no way has it set me on a path towards OU.
The FE community needs to invest more time and effort (even money) into the 2SO to disprove it than the inventor ever did to vague and very shadily prove it. Only after a convincing disproval (we're almost sure it won' be accepted by the investor regardless how good it is), will we have ridden us of this project, and can this collective brainpower be put to fresh, more meritable ideas.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 11, 2012, 04:41:34 PM
@Neptune
I admire your composure and commend your methods, working witht he skillset you happen to have.
 
What saddens me about the FE community, one can throw in a 2SO, stick an expensive OU label to it, and make it the burden of the community to make it work for them, and to disprove it. We're so eager for new viable ideas, that we'll chase such a ghost for years. I myself have gained a bit of insight by the 2SO, as would any proper riddle, but in no way has it set me on a path towards OU.
The FE community needs to invest more time and effort (even money) into the 2SO to disprove it than the inventor ever did to vague and very shadily prove it. Only after a convincing disproval (we're almost sure it won' be accepted by the investor regardless how good it is), will we have ridden us of this project, and can this collective brainpower be put to fresh, more meritable ideas.

   Cloxxki,
  At one time, I was going to build a demonstration of the principle I believe Bessler used.
I was severely attacked for it.
 As things are, this should be the last thing for me to be concerned with. One of the basic failures of the OU/FE community is a lack of actual education and working knowledge of engineering. When working with Newton's Laws of Motion, it helps to uderstand how various forces can be manipulated by design.
 As for myself, I have posted some ideas which have been basically ignored. It could be that to understand how an application can be varied or modified is not understood because  a lack of experience and or knowledge.
  As things are, I may quit everything I have been doing. Where I live is really no place to work. Yet when I tried to find someone to work with, I only got attacked for not having a place to work. And that is the blow hards of the OU/FE community. They have lots of opinions and those are mostly criticism for others trying to do what they're not doing. It has gotten old for me. I mean, there are some parts I can build, but without using a router and having a place to build a steam box, it is a waste of time.
 I think in reality it is as one person posted at besslerwheel.com, it is their sanctuary and they do not wish to discuss how something might actually work. It would take the fun out of it and that is why the TSO is still a topic when after all these years, where is the working model ? To me, that is sufficient proof it is not OU.
 
edited to add; it is a lot of work to develop an idea.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bessler2011?ob=video-mustangbase (http://www.youtube.com/user/Bessler2011?ob=video-mustangbase)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 11, 2012, 05:31:47 PM
Hi Guys . I ve been running some tests on my rig with the 360 degree pendulum . At present my results are showing LESS efficiency than a normal pendulum released from horizontal . As I have said , my tests are by no means definitive , but accurate enough to convince myself . I have a new idea I want to build , but I will discuss that when the time comes .
   @Johnny 874 . Please do not give up now , you have come too far for that , and if you are like me , you probably need this work to give structure and meaning to your life . Criticism is something we all get every day . In my opinion , the only people qualified to criticise OU researchers  are those people who can demonstrate a self runner , and they tend to be a bit thin on the ground . In the view of most people , OU researchers are all insane anyway , so what does it matter what people think . At worst , this work is just a harmless hobby .
       As I say , today I do not believe the 2so is overunity , tomorrow I might , given evidence . Regarding Milkovic ,in a way , what really matters is if if it is really easier to pump water with his device , than a standard pump . It would sure be interesting to see some trials , with both types of pump and some unbiased operators . Naturally , they would swap pumps at half time . It could become a new event for the Olympic Games , perhaps . Remember that if we need to change a wheel , we raise the vehicle using a jack , whereas in theory it would use less energy to raise the vehicle manually . OK Talk soon , Regards Ken.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 11, 2012, 09:57:19 PM
and if you are like me , you probably need this work to give structure and meaning to your life . Criticism is something we all get every day     

  Family would give my life meaning and structure. This is for the abuse. Most people I think shy away from building because how do you build a wheel, even if it doesn't work ? And I think they are afraid of putting forth that much effort.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 12, 2012, 12:19:17 AM
@ neptune
 Thanks neptune & clokki,
 Thanks for keeping sanity here. I don't want either of you to think that I spend 24 hrs a day contemplating the tsmo. I have wasted no time on the tsmo, because 5 yrs ago, I could probably not even been able to describe a vague concept of angular momentum, angular velocity, centrifugal force, etc, etc. But now I probably could. The tsmo has been a great learning tool for me, and I still have a gut feeling that there could be overunity. It's hard to explain, and I wish I would have kept some better records of my experiments. On the other hand I have not 2nd mortgaged my home to build  tsmo's.  I use mostly scrap materials and most of my stuff is just tack welded together. I add weld as needed, in  accordance to the weights I am using. I try not to waste tons of energy and resources to do experiments, welding rod and the energy to burn the rods. I can put models together quickly with my methods though, that's what I do for a living. Clokki, You made the offer- help me figure out the most efficient design for my pump and I can build it in several hours. The pipe sizing and check valves are the key and I think with a simple design, this could be something anyone could build. That is a priority for me because I have found that alot of these free energy idea';s aren't so free if you have to spend several thousand dollars worth of stuff to do it. may as well just get a solar panel system and hell with it. Maybe that was something that just lead me towards the tsmo.
 @johnny
 Don't get discouraged. I have been "attacked" in person, and let me assure you it is much more humiliating than it is on the internet. F it. Do your thing and what you beleive in. Be cool about it though.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on January 12, 2012, 02:41:22 AM
Hi Jim, Neptune,

Einstein said it best:

Quote
"If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be called research."

I must be good at research because I still don't know what the heck I'm doing.  ;D

Keep experimenting.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 12, 2012, 02:53:40 AM
@dtb
 So true
 @clokki,
 Just the fact that you grasp the principle of "indoctrination", says a little, if not a lot about your intelligence.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 12, 2012, 02:32:36 PM
@gdez:
Point me to the idea you're kicking around, or make a special thread for it and I'll give you whatever brainfarts I may pass.
 
Building a solar panel may not be a waste of building time at all. Some good designs out there for DYI solar panels, be it for water heating or otherwise. I am a great fan of low-tech (unually ugly) solutions to big problems. Such as, for winter climates, a long black foldable plastic pipe, sitting in teh sun. Small fan forcing air through. Winter air in, hot air out, and into your house. Solar heating in the winter, that's right. And I bet you could run a heat engine off it in the summer. Very high success changes, and longterm energy cost savings if you pick the tech to suit your situation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 12, 2012, 02:39:32 PM
Hi Guys . We are told , time and time again that gravity is a conservative force .It occurred to me that I was not sure what that meant , so I looked it up . So , as I understand it , if we raise a weight from the floor to the table and then let it fall to the floor , the result is that in falling it produces the same amount of energy as was invested to lift it . Imagine you are inside a space station . The station revolves on its axis to produce centrifugal force to act as artificial gravity . So inside the station , the same rules about weights and tables apply . This suggests that centrifugal force is a conservative force . The difference is that if we stop the rotation we stop the centrifugal force . So we can switch this artificial gravity on and off . We need to invest energy to start the rotation ,but in theory , we can recover 100% of invested energy by stopping the rotation . This is only true if losses are zero of course . Basically today I am just thinking out loud . Jovan Marjanovic claims that any OU in the 2SO is the result of centrifugal force . If we used an off balance wheel rotating in a horizontal plain , we we eleminate the complication of Earth gravity . I have seen a video on Youtube that features  off balanced wheels connected by gears , that seemed to work like that , but I cant find it , and there was no explanation about it . I will carry on thinking about it .
@gdez .In a recent post , you said you had published a new video . Please post a link , or the name of your Youtube chanel . Lare , guys , Regards , Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 12, 2012, 03:14:51 PM
@Neptune.
The funny thing I come up with, is that if you would bring this ring-shaped space station in a spin, but forgot to hold on to one little object floating in mid-air, failing to accelerate it, providing all corridor doors are open, the object would get into inverted orbit, shooting through the corridors. Air, if present, would drag on it, and over time speed it up towards the station's turnign velocity, making the object "crash". Totally besides the point, but just a fun thought to me.
The thing about gravity I don't get, it that it's nearly identical all round earth. Remember, the earth spin like a globe, held by its poles. Any spin you add to the globe will reduce the apparent mass of an object placed on a scale. And the effect will vary greatly where you happen to place the scale and object. At the equator you'd lose most weight to CF.
For earth, it doesn't seem to work that way. r=6000km, period is 24 hours.
According my my donkey math, an object on the equator should lose ~35% of it's pressure to a scale on the equator, and zero on the poles. Yet, this doesn't seem to be happening. The gravity variation is very slight all over earth's surface. Please correct my math or explain me why earth equalizes CF of its spin.
In aether theories, it came up that gravity may be like a dimple in the fabric of space. Something like a leak in a glass. The bigger the hole, the faster the flow. Spin however, in aetheric proportions, might be self-countering. Perhaps our experiments take place on the wrong scale of model. Million-fold. Or, Aetheric inward pressure (gravity) is an effect of the lack of aether, as mass "takes up space". We don't put enough mass into our experiments then. Or there could be a threshold we just can't reach.
I have a lot of questions, and always less understanding than I thought I had.
 
Could it be the poles are more than magnetic, and it's path being 90º with eath's self-created CF, makes its sum, "gravity", seem all nice and level all the way around, with only minor variance? Only at bigger altitutes would differences form. and we know space programs keep missing their calculated orbits. They've learned to accept there is a correction to be applied, but unsure what it substantiates, or unwilling to share.
 
Anyway, what I meant to say, I am not so sure CF is artificial gravity. It may mimic some of its effects if you zoom in on them, do measurements inside a very specific frame, but it's not really the same thing.
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 12, 2012, 03:39:38 PM
    Cloxxki,
 One thing that might have been over looked, even by scientists, is that 1 meter is the Golden Rule when it comes to centrifugal force. If the radius is less than 1 meter, then it's effect increases. And as the radii is increased, the effect of centrifugal force decreases.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 12, 2012, 04:16:11 PM
    Cloxxki,
 One thing that might have been over looked, even by scientists, is that 1 meter is the Golden Rule when it comes to centrifugal force. If the radius is less than 1 meter, then it's effect increases. And as the radii is increased, the effect of centrifugal force decreases.
Please say that in a way even I understand?
Do you the /r part in the formula? If so, that bears no importance. r=1 is just the value corresponding with 1N for 1kg at 1m/s². You could express 1N as Accelerated Mass at 1m radius. It's a unit, is all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 12, 2012, 06:22:06 PM
Please say that in a way even I understand?
Do you the /r part in the formula? If so, that bears no importance. r=1 is just the value corresponding with 1N for 1kg at 1m/s². You could express 1N as Accelerated Mass at 1m radius. It's a unit, is all.

   One thing I have wondered is if mv^2 is actually mv/s, like m/s/s for gravity. While with gravity the last s stands for seconds, it has come to be expressed as ^2. Simply put, with centrifugal force, it might be best calculated in how force increases similar to gravity. An example is if a 1kg weight has a velocity that is a percentage of 9.87 and a radius that is a percentage of 1 meter, then could the results be measured to show such a relationship exists ?
  Tests can be done to see if centrifugal force increases or decreases at the 1 meter mark. The simplest weigh (way, having a little fun) is to have the fulcrum be placed on top of a digital scale. Then, when the weight swings (using different radii), a video could be made to show what is happening and the reading on the scale would show. While it is a unit, it might be that calculating centrifugal force by miles or kilometers would give an an acceptable answer, but one that might be wrong.
 One reason why I wonder about this relationship is that 1 meter was the standard on which modern scientific thought has been based. And by changing the basis, the reliability of the calculations might also be changed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 12, 2012, 07:27:05 PM
Hi GUys . Fascinating stuff . I have to admit that i had not even thought about the Earth`s spin having an effect on gravity . 1 revolution every 24 hours does not sound a lot ,. But when you take account of the Earth`s size , the rate of spin is about 1000 MPH at the surface , not insignificant . Regarding the metre as being a significant dimension , I am not sure . I believe it is defined as some fraction of the distance from the equator to the poles .
       @Johnny 874 . I think you said your build was held up for want of a steam box .  I believe a steam box is for bending wood .{Warped Boards ?] . Curved wooden components can easily be fabricated from many layers of thin plywood and PVA glue . If you needed a router to make grooves in these components , instead cut slots into the surface layers with a fretsaw or jigsaw before fabrication . Just thought this might help .
  Later guys , Regards , Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 12, 2012, 09:21:22 PM
Hi GUys . Fascinating stuff . I have to admit that i had not even thought about the Earth`s spin having an effect on gravity . 1 revolution every 24 hours does not sound a lot ,. But when you take account of the Earth`s size , the rate of spin is about 1000 MPH at the surface , not insignificant . Regarding the metre as being a significant dimension , I am not sure . I believe it is defined as some fraction of the distance from the equator to the poles .
       @Johnny 874 . I think you said your build was held up for want of a steam box .  I believe a steam box is for bending wood .{Warped Boards ?] . Curved wooden components can easily be fabricated from many layers of thin plywood and PVA glue . If you needed a router to make grooves in these components , instead cut slots into the surface layers with a fretsaw or jigsaw before fabrication . Just thought this might help .
  Later guys , Regards , Ken .

   Ken,
 I know how I would like to build it. Until then....

  @Cloxxki, going by gravity, centrifugal force would be it's equal at a radius of 4.935m and a velocity of 9.87m/s/s. We are moving at about 5kps and with a radius of 6,000km's.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 13, 2012, 12:11:48 AM
@neptune,
 "Could it be the poles are more than magnetic, and it's path being 90º with eath's self-created CF, makes its sum, "gravity", seem all nice and level all the way around, with only minor variance? Only at bigger altitutes would differences form. and we know space programs keep missing their calculated orbits. They've learned to accept there is a correction to be applied, but unsure what it substantiates, or unwilling to share."
 
 Don't forget about precession, that could have a lot to do with it. I have only touched on reading about it, but could precession be added to the eccenric flywheel effect? It seems like it would give it a 3rd dimension to work with, possibly adding power? i have thought about a gyroscopic-like eccentric flywheel, and how it would work. A simple test to play with---take a bycycle rim hold it horizontally and spin hard. you can balance it on your finger tip, but try to turn it to the vertical position and you will find that it is not that easy. it just doesn't want to go. A very simple experiment, and it will definitely make you think. An interesting thing I noticed is on my swing 5 video. If you watch while I am cranking it up, you'll see the frame rocking side to side. when I let go of the crank, it seems to smooth itself out. My swing 6 model is sturdier, made out of steel and doesn't rock sideways as much, but I can't get it to run like swing 5. S5 I had run for 6;20, but my new and seemingly improved model won't go past 2:30 to 3:30. Could my quick throw together model have actaully helped performance? Also I will start paying attention to my N,E, S, And W orientation. i have turned it 90 degrees, but never gave much thought on how it could effect the experiment. I will try to post more videoes about my ideas, because I do feel they explain more about what I'm thinking than trying to just type it up.
 @ Clokki
 I also like simple ideas, and while I do have some complicated ides about the tsmo or as I would really like to call it "multiple oscillatior", The KISS method seems the best to me also.
 @ neptune---- youtube gdez1000.
 Enjoy, greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 13, 2012, 01:22:25 AM
@gdez, tell me what type of test you want to do, or which medium or technique to use. I am all for anti-bling and no-cost builds.
I would suggest, if you don't fear elaborate theory or measurement, to build a super basic 2SO. Just the beam and a pendulum on one end, a rope will do. Typical Malcovic propotions. Place a quick scale with sensitive needle or LCD refresh under the CW. A cheap or stury one, as it will also be a hammer plate. A sensitive fish scale als rope for the pendulum could also prove useful. Offer numbers Malkovic doesn't want to get specific on. I am claiming the pendulum is performing hardly any work at all. To get that CW in the air takes almost nothing. Most of the weight required is already handing there when still, and the leverage from the crossbeam does the rest. Throwing oscillation in the mix, and removing the hammer plate, amplitude will be double, half of which is negative amplitude.


@Jim
You've got your forces, velocities and accelerations SO out of wack and twisted up, I am in fact at a loss as to how to explain it. You seem to be missing that acceleration is expressed as m/s² simply because every second, a number of m/s (3.6 kph) is added to its previous velocity. 1m/s² mean every second 1m/s is added.


A page back I explained how to see the acceleration view off centrifugal force, and I do think I got that decently right, for someone to think about it the ffirst time in his life (me).
In the 2SO, it's used as a vertical accceleration. One moment you're in a nose dive, the other you're pulling up. You vertical velocity goes from negative to positive, and it can be expressed as vertical acceleration. There is however no acceleration relative to the axis, unless the rope extends under the strain.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 13, 2012, 01:33:45 AM
About earth's spin once more.


I challenge anyone to tell me what happens if a rocket were to make a loop with r=6000km (use actual earth's radium) and complete it in one hour.
A scale with a 1kg weight is on board, hanging from a rope to self-align it with the CF should it occur.
Now, what will the scale register?


And why does this value not exist as the difference (converted to m/s²) between gravity at the equator and poles?


Actually, hollow earth is one possible explanation. More mass at the poles, more genuine pull-gravity generated, exactly negating the spin. I will also bet (having though about it as long as itt takes to type this) that a Phun-like simulation will prove me correct. It would need to be fed with laws of gravity as currently considered to be true. Hollow earth solves it. It may even explain the tides.


More on topic, who would be prepared to call the most basic 2SO dimensional relationships as claimed to be OU? I might be bothered to let my Cloxxki-logic loose on it, and predict some measurable figures. I want the 2SO off the game pitch, and a new inventtion on it!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 13, 2012, 01:34:30 AM
@gdez, tell me what type of test you want to do, or which medium or technique to use. I am all for anti-bling and no-cost builds.
I would suggest, if you don't fear elaborate theory or measurement, to build a super basic 2SO. Just the beam and a pendulum on one end, a rope will do. Typical Malcovic propotions. Place a quick scale with sensitive needle or LCD refresh under the CW. A cheap or stury one, as it will also be a hammer plate. A sensitive fish scale als rope for the pendulum could also prove useful. Offer numbers Malkovic doesn't want to get specific on. I am claiming the pendulum is performing hardly any work at all. To get that CW in the air takes almost nothing. Most of the weight required is already handing there when still, and the leverage from the crossbeam does the rest. Throwing oscillation in the mix, and removing the hammer plate, amplitude will be double, half of which is negative amplitude.


@Jim
You've got your forces, velocities and accelerations SO out of wack and twisted up, I am in fact at a loss as to how to explain it. You seem to be missing that acceleration is expressed as m/s² simply because every second, a number of m/s (3.6 kph) is added to its previous velocity. 1m/s² mean every second 1m/s is added.


A page back I explained how to see the acceleration view off centrifugal force, and I do think I got that decently right, for someone to think about it the ffirst time in his life (me).
In the 2SO, it's used as a vertical accceleration. One moment you're in a nose dive, the other you're pulling up. You vertical velocity goes from negative to positive, and it can be expressed as vertical acceleration. There is however no acceleration relative to the axis, unless the rope extends under the strain.

   Cloxxki, the links are for you. Gravity accelerates at a rate of 9.87m/s/s
and with Newton, I think it was f=ma which a is the acceleration of gravity as measured vt. Haven't been able to find it clearly stated but have always heard m/s/s which means that every second an object falls, it's velocity increases by 9.8m/s.
 I'm glad you think I'm messed up. At least one of us went to school for engineering  :D
Probably why posting in a forum IS a waste of my time. Haven't met the person yet that can follow lines of force. And with a gravity wheel, doubt it would move faster than gravity would allow it to. And since 9.8 is mentioned in the links, why did you use a different refernce for ? To confuse the issue ? What I mentioned was 1 second of gravity acting on a wheel with no resistence. Doesn't matter, I'm about the only person who builds anyway. You should try it someday before running your mouth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_acceleration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_acceleration)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity)
 
edited to add; gdez, Segway spent $800 million I think it was making their gyro's effcient enough to power their 2 wheeler. Good Luck
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 13, 2012, 02:44:04 AM
@clokki and johnny,
 Please remember that our own personal goals may be different. When I first got into the free energy idea, It was all about how to buy a peice of property out in the middle of nowhere, and basiclly live off grid. I found that not to many energy solutions provide the means, depending on what your looking for. Through my research I stumbled onto hho stuff, and i have been hooked ever since. I built a fuel cell, but never actually completed it because i felt it was too complicated for someone without lots of tools and acsess to materials. I have also built parabolic reflectors, and have materials for a wood gasifier and bio degester. Time is what is hard. Jetsis "plastic to deisel project is also fantastic, and the algae biodeisel is also interesting. I am starting to see that a combination of solutions may be the key. I would like you all to look at my "w17 working much better" video and try to envision where I am going with my projects. My w17 model was a great sucsess for me because it did what I wanted it to do. Steady beat, somewhat smooth power. I did not get the pendulum swing I wanted, but that seems like a minor obstacle. At my  job, I lift piping assemblies that weigh several thousand pounds into place with easily, with chainfalls, all the time , and putting block and tackle to a tsmo style device just seems to work for me. If I could go out every morning and raise 2000+ lbs to supply all my energy needs for the day, it would be a pleasure. Especially for pumping water because I live on a 100ft hill, and I feel i could harness the water in many ways, just using gravity. AS for my pump idea, I think that I would like to aim for pumping water at least eighty feet. And @ clokki, I think I will try 18" dia pipe, 4" deep, 1/4" neoprene as diaphragm,2" inlet 3/4 outlet". Diaprhragm will be held by a pipe flange type connection, unsure of springs. Springs are confusing to me, but they seem to be very important in  many of my models, and deserve a closer look.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 13, 2012, 10:42:59 AM
@Jim
Glad to hear you did get your money's worth at engineering school. At times engineers can be so much into the tech, that language gets disconnected. I usually understand technical English decently, but yor sentence building just seems incompatible with my reading ability.
 
@gdez:
I would like to have appartments in a tall building, top floor and bottom floor. Let's say 50m vertical difference. I'd obviously only get a water connection on the top floor, run piping along the side of the building. One insulated from sun, one absorbing as much sun and heat as possible. Both would produce huge pressure going into my ground floor appt, and run through a turbine before being put to use. I like some decent shower pressure, but 50m extra worth may be a bit much even for me. The heat absorbing piping might over that height (and possible zig-zags to add distance and thus time exposed) might prove to be enough for a 38ºC shower. Hey, I just invented flat piping to increase energy absorbtion. Oh, and when looped over the side of the building, heated water could serve to heat the inside of the appt. Every cm² of building face not being used to absorb heat into flowing water, is free energy being wasted. Like using your heater and try to make the outside weather warmer.
I don't anything about pumps, would be interested to know why you'd want to pump water, but that's another thread entirely.

I think I might crack down and start breaking up the 2SO into Cloxxki math. It would take a scientist (or 18 y/o student) to make it publishable.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: CuriousChris on January 13, 2012, 11:39:59 AM
Gravity is not even all around the earth, but it is fairly consistent. The earth is not a perfect sphere. There is more mass around the equator countering the effect of the earths spin. The equatorial bulge. The poles are slightly flattened.

The earth is not solid, the majority of it is a molten rock and metal, the solid part we stand on is actually quite thin. So as the earth spins it deforms and the heavier material tends to move to the equator until its all in a perfect balance.  If it didn't do that it would have spun itself to pieces not long after it formed, and we wouldnt be here to discuss the point.

Quite logical really.


CC

Edit:
Here is a wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth

I know of a better discussion but cant seem to find it. I'll post it if I do find it
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 13, 2012, 12:22:53 PM
Gravity is not even all around the earth, but it is fairly consistent. The earth is not a perfect sphere. There is more mass around the equator countering the effect of the earths spin. The equatorial bulge. The poles are slightly flattened.

The earth is not solid, the majority of it is a molten rock and metal, the solid part we stand on is actually quite thin. So as the earth spins it deforms and the heavier material tends to move to the equator until its all in a perfect balance.  If it didn't do that it would have spun itself to pieces not long after it formed, and we wouldnt be here to discuss the point.

Quite logical really.


CC

Edit:
Here is a wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth)

I know of a better discussion but cant seem to find it. I'll post it if I do find it
Thanks Chris.

But can that account for the CF difference between zero at the poles and my fuzzy math estimate of 35% reduction in net weight at the equator? At 1000mph, taking a 6000km radius turn is quite a bit.
I'd love to be violently corrected on my 35% figure, just to know what figures we're looking at.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 13, 2012, 01:07:39 PM
I have a proposed simplified 2SO
 
I'll save you my fuzzy math
 
Specs:
Pendulum 1m, 20kg
Counterweight 100kg
cross beam 3x longer on pendulum side
Starting position pendulum 60º = 0.5m up
I am using g=10 for simplicity
I am presuming a linkage pendulum pivot which always directs centrifugal force directly vertically to crossbar, which itself is presumed level.
 
Still pendulum: 20kg pulling on string, amplified 3x on CW side reduces CW's load on platform from 100kg to 40kg
 
A top bottom (static pivot implied), pendulum reaches 3m/s for a centrifigal pull of 180N.
This amplified 3x pulls up on CW for an extra 540N
CW was 400N, and netts -140N (accelerated upwards by 140N force, gravity disabled)
 
As long a CF from pendulum > 133N, CW is being lifted. this will start before top bottom (t1), and end after it (t2).
Even after the forces equal, the CW will continue to climb for a moments due to it's vertical velocity still present at t2.
 
The pendulum's pivot, from lifting the CW, loses roughly 3x the altitude the CW gained.
 
All agree thusfar?
 
I think dimensions used are very reasonable for building and filming, and weights can be reduced for convenience as mass is irrelevant, only proportions of weights and lengths. Crossbar can also be any length convenient, as long as pivot positioning is proportionate.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 13, 2012, 01:22:02 PM
@Jim
Glad to hear you did get your money's worth at engineering school. At times engineers can be so much into the tech, that language gets disconnected. I usually understand technical English decently, but yor sentence building just seems incompatible with my reading ability.
 


  English is my second language. Americans don't like it either.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: CuriousChris on January 13, 2012, 01:31:17 PM
Thanks Chris.

But can that account for the CF difference between zero at the poles and my fuzzy math estimate of 35% reduction in net weight at the equator? At 1000mph, taking a 6000km radius turn is quite a bit.
I'd love to be violently corrected on my 35% figure, just to know what figures we're looking at.

Not sure where you get your 35% or what you have based it on.

Here are a couple of more links. the first is plain english with some math, the second is typical wikipedia

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=310
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_bulge

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 13, 2012, 01:53:32 PM
@Cloxxki . I feel you may have mqade a mistake . You state "Cross beam is three tines as long on PENDULUM side". I think you meant three times as long on counterweight side . Regards, Ken
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 13, 2012, 03:07:51 PM
@Cloxxki . I feel you may have mqade a mistake . You state "Cross beam is three tines as long on PENDULUM side". I think you meant three times as long on counterweight side . Regards, Ken
The distance from pendulum's pivot to the central pivot in my example is 3x that of the central pivot to the CW's pivot.
 
I don't know what's currently claimed the most OU relationship.
I chose the weights, 100kg CW and 20kg pendulum as with this crossbar placement relationship, the CW would rest on the hammerplate (to some extent), but the pendulum could lift it for a part of it's downswing.
Now it could look like the 20kg pendulum lifts the 100kg counterweight. Truth, in my example, is that the 20kg already pulls on the CW by 60kg when just handing there. Any CF from the pendulum is also trippled, in negative, to the other side.
 
I'll investigate my mistake.
A few pages back I used some rough numbers and the formula I found for centrifugal force.
I remember earth is around 6,000km radius (12,000km diameter).
Maximum equatorial circumference (dia * pi) is travelled by an object placed there, evere 24hour.
This makes for a rim speed of 436m/s
 
FC = (mv²)/r, I believe.
I'll take a 100kg weight
FC = (100* 190385)/6,000,000= 3,17N
3.17N~0.3% of 100kg
Seems I was off by a facor of 100, my sincere apologies.
This would render my concern to zero.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 13, 2012, 04:53:14 PM
Hi Cloxxki . The mistake was mine not yours , sorry . I was confused by the fact that your cross bar proportions are different to what Milkovic normally uses . He normally has the counterweight end three or three and a half times as long as the pendulum end . Marjanovic says that there is advantage in not letting the pendulum pivot drop untill just before bottom dead centre , thus allowing the pendulum to gather max speed before extracting energy .This can be achieved by using a heavier counterweight or by some method of locking the beam pivot at the right time . Regards , Ken .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 13, 2012, 05:02:55 PM
Which weights and pendulum length are typical at this inverted crossbar proportion to mine? I would expect a relatively small CW then...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 18, 2012, 04:25:57 PM
Which weights and pendulum length are typical at this inverted crossbar proportion to mine? I would expect a relatively small CW then...

  Cloxxki,
 I kind of wish everyone understood torque like Tom/Webby1 does. It can generate a lot of force.
The primary reason a TSMO won't work is because when a fulcrum is lifted, it's weight is not
lifted with it. This moves the weight closer to center lowering it's drop.
 One way it might work is modifying what I suggested to Tom and that is when one pendulum starts
it's swing, it's torque can increase the velocity of the other pendulum. An example of this is if a pendulum
is 1 meter from center of fulcrum to center of it's weight, 1kg and @ an angle of 30 degrees the weight has
1/2 kg of force @ 1 meter. How much potential does the weight have as far as torque goes ?
 This is what everyone has been over looking. Missing a huge energy potential because it's at the beginning
of the stroke. And most likely it would only take a burst of energy transfer. If so, then the pendulum
powering it's sister would lose minimal height. Of course, like a car's engine, timing would be important.
 
                                                                                                           Bye
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 18, 2012, 05:27:10 PM
By bringing torque in, do you mean to get a direct relationship between the pendulum and the lift of the CW?
 
Any work you allow torque to perform, goes at the expense of angular velocity, and thus height, and torque for the next swing.
I could be wrong or thinking too simply.
 
***
 
I took a deep breath, and took a brief look at Milcovic's website.
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html#brief_description (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html#brief_description)

Couldn't find explicit dimensions, but it seems the crossbar is equal length both sides, and "M" is both used for the pendulum and the counterweight. This would mean the CW is fully weightless to its hammerplate when the pendulum is hanging still. Of, the vertical pull on the CW is equal to its mass multiple by G. Just a lamp hanging from the ceiling. Just not designed to swing, but to just hang down and going along with implied vertical oscillation of the ceiling.
 
Any amount of pendulum swing will then produce >0 CF going towards lifting the CW. Because balance was already reached with the swing.
The animation shows the CW reaching top when the pendulum is just about halfway its upswing. The downswing of the CW takes up the second half of the upswing, effectively pulling on the pendulum's pivot against it's mass *and* CF.
 
Where is the OU? Not there. You can't make a ramped rail which the pendulum will roll up to reset itself. The Ke simply isn't there is the CW would remain stuck in top position and fail to sling the pendulum back up.
 
Nice toy though.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 18, 2012, 06:14:11 PM
By bringing torque in, do you mean to get a direct relationship between the pendulum and the lift of the CW?
 
Any work you allow torque to perform, goes at the expense of angular velocity, and thus height, and torque for the next swing.
I could be wrong or thinking too simply.
 
***
 
I took a deep breath, and took a brief look at Milcovic's website.
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html#brief_description (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html#brief_description)

Couldn't find explicit dimensions, but it seems the crossbar is equal length both sides, and "M" is both used for the pendulum and the counterweight. This would mean the CW is fully weightless to its hammerplate when the pendulum is hanging still. Of, the vertical pull on the CW is equal to its mass multiple by G. Just a lamp hanging from the ceiling. Just not designed to swing, but to just hang down and going along with implied vertical oscillation of the ceiling.
 
Any amount of pendulum swing will then produce >0 CF going towards lifting the CW. Because balance was already reached with the swing.
The animation shows the CW reaching top when the pendulum is just about halfway its upswing. The downswing of the CW takes up the second half of the upswing, effectively pulling on the pendulum's pivot against it's mass *and* CF.
 
Where is the OU? Not there. You can't make a ramped rail which the pendulum will roll up to reset itself. The Ke simply isn't there is the CW would remain stuck in top position and fail to sling the pendulum back up.
 
Nice toy though.

>>By bringing torque in, do you mean to get a direct relationship between the pendulum and the lift of the CW?<<
 If the pendulum performs work, ie. swing, then it is losing energy. The only way to restore the potential of a pendulum is to accelerate it or have something else that can amplify potential energy. A CW doesn't really do anything, basically is dead weight. That is why it just hangs.
 Almost makes me think of a trebuchet   ;)
 
edited to add; a weight on a pendulum has the potential f = ma. When torque is considered, then the length of the pendulum increases the potential of the weight accordingly. It becomes more than f = ma.
 
edited to add; if the pendulum is 1 meter long and is at an angle of 30 degrees, it is 50cm's from the center line of the fulcrum. This is how the torque should be calculated.
 Then it would be 1kg*50cm = torque   .
 When the pendulum dropping lifts the counter weight, the CW moves w = md. This is the energy required by what is causing it to move, the pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 19, 2012, 11:17:05 AM
Jim, you want to extract both the torque and the CF of one pendulum within the same swing? If you do it well, it'll barely rear top bottom.
Neither FC nor torque can ever be exploited without the work done being at the full cost of the source.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 19, 2012, 03:42:20 PM
Jim, you want to extract both the torque and the CF of one pendulum within the same swing? If you do it well, it'll barely rear top bottom.
Neither FC nor torque can ever be exploited without the work done being at the full cost of the source.

  Cloxxki,
 @ 1 meter and 30 degrees, the arc of the pendulum to bottom center is 2Rpi/12=arc
or 2 * 3.14 divided by 12 = arc     
           6.28 / 12 = .52 meters.
 If the torque from the pendulum is as an example 5 degrees, it will still have 25 degrees to reach bottom center which is about .44 meters. It would still have time to accelerate.
 What would need to be known is if the force torque generates is less than what is consumed.
 After all, when looking for free energy, we have to hope we find a small detail that has been previously over looked.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 19, 2012, 06:17:23 PM
  Cloxxki,
 @ 1 meter and 30 degrees, the arc of the pendulum to bottom center is 2Rpi/12=arc
or 2 * 3.14 divided by 12 = arc     
           6.28 / 12 = .52 meters.
 If the torque from the pendulum is as an example 5 degrees, it will still have 25 degrees to reach bottom center which is about .44 meters. It would still have time to accelerate.
 What would need to be known is if the force torque generates is less than what is consumed.
 After all, when looking for free energy, we have to hope we find a small detail that has been previously over looked.
Too good to be true to be found in 2012. Good luck with that math. You can't get a gain by just making things more complicated. I gave up such thoughts some time ago.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 19, 2012, 08:08:58 PM
Too good to be true to be found in 2012. Good luck with that math. You can't get a gain by just making things more complicated. I gave up such thoughts some time ago.

  It's not more complicated until it needs to be built. It is a thought on how to transfer force in a way that increases it's potential. A CW can not amplify potential. It's lift and drop are the same.
 I do have what I have been working on and Tom's idea (self repeating pendulum) could work. Maybe someone will try it.
    Have fun with Alan.
                             Bye
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 19, 2012, 09:56:44 PM
Don't ever try and drag me into you little pathetic arguments with anyone. I'm my own person, and very well capable to get people to deteste me for reason between them and me. Your problem with Alan is your business, and your business only, as it lives 99% inside you. Keep it to yourself. Again: don't drag me into that mess. I am not asking nicely.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 19, 2012, 10:31:31 PM
   Cloxxki,
 It is Tom's idea, he is also known as webby1, has nothing to do with Alan.
And it is a better idea than what is being discussed in this thread, it actually might work.
 Of course, you could be mentioning Alan as a way out of considering someone's idea
that has merit. I can see why Tom doesn't post much in here.
 What I do like is that people from Europe have never been bothered by Alan's attacks on me. Not even Helmut when me and him would be discussing something. Alan would be saying how stupid it was that I thought math could help. And yet, Helmut now says the same thing you do, you are your own man.
 I think it's funny he can ridicule engineering the way he does. Could be why rlortie removed him from his build group. At least one person besides myself has been willing to stand up to him. And look at this forum now, it's DEAD.
 As for me, I can build if I want to. I have put much time and effort into working out the best way to construct what I've been pursuing on my own. The idea has never been well liked in these forums.
 By the way, there is a chance that Neptune is Alan. If so, I think it is funny he would create another log in like he did in besslerwheel to post with.
 But I am finished with this forum. What the pendulum concept was for as I mentioned previously was for pumping water. And the weight on the pendulum does have it's greatest potential at a 90 degree angle to the pump's lever. Makes it easier on people who need to use it because they lack running water.
 But for purposes of work, it's greatest potential is when the weight starts dropping. And everyone has missed this for about 128 pages or so. Think of it this way, the pendulum can act as a lever itself and not need it's energy transfered by another lever. But that is engineering and it does seem to be poorly understood.
 Who ever you discuss things with, hope you have a good time.
 
                                                                Bye
 
edited to change structure of a sentence, clarified what it was I could build.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 19, 2012, 11:05:30 PM
    Cloxxki,
  I do have better things to do with my time. I have had serious medical issues and still have a ways to go. That is more important to me than this.
  But as I told Alan, it is possible I will do the build I have been pursuing and not make it known. After all, look at the negativity that has been attached to it. And do I think it will work ? it is very well supported by accepted principles in engineering. After all, they say you can't cheat the laws of physics. That is why I took the time to learn them. Read a few books.
 Mt 20 is what lead me to understand the principle. Everyone has looked at the same drawing I have but missed a very important behavior. And when considering other drawings, by considering the same behavior, realization slowly settled in and I knew Bessler did do it.
 But between here and besslerwheel.com, it's a sad joke. Since rlortie has a shop, was hoping to get him interested in it. But someone kept ridiculing the idea, only way to be in control I guess.
 
                                                                Auf Wiedersehen!
 
edited to add; Cloxxki, my dad who is from Norway wanted me to do this. It could be he thought that with my hearing loss, it would help me.
 Of course, the first time I fished, I was dropping nets in the fjords of Norway. Not exactly an American thing. I actually lived there. Some Americans don't like people like me. I figure between my hearing loss and having slightly different cultural values from being my fathers son, can't quite conform.
 It is funny in a way, Bessler was half German and half Polish. Could be why he had the ingenuity to realize it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 20, 2012, 11:51:04 AM
    Cloxxki,
  I do have better things to do with my time. I have had serious medical issues and still have a ways to go. That is more important to me than this.
  But as I told Alan, it is possible I will do the build I have been pursuing and not make it known. After all, look at the negativity that has been attached to it. And do I think it will work ? it is very well supported by accepted principles in engineering. After all, they say you can't cheat the laws of physics. That is why I took the time to learn them. Read a few books.
 Mt 20 is what lead me to understand the principle. Everyone has looked at the same drawing I have but missed a very important behavior. And when considering other drawings, by considering the same behavior, realization slowly settled in and I knew Bessler did do it.
 But between here and besslerwheel.com, it's a sad joke. Since rlortie has a shop, was hoping to get him interested in it. But someone kept ridiculing the idea, only way to be in control I guess.
 
                                                                Auf Wiedersehen!
 
edited to add; Cloxxki, my dad who is from Norway wanted me to do this. It could be he thought that with my hearing loss, it would help me.
 Of course, the first time I fished, I was dropping nets in the fjords of Norway. Not exactly an American thing. I actually lived there. Some Americans don't like people like me. I figure between my hearing loss and having slightly different cultural values from being my fathers son, can't quite conform.
 It is funny in a way, Bessler was half German and half Polish. Could be why he had the ingenuity to realize it.
Again, with the self pity and blaming others. I've been patient and you know it.
 
You evidently do not have better things to do, at least not when on OU websites. It's all about your obsession over Alan, and your self-pity. You have no idea how shitty the lives of some of the posters on here may be. They just don't drag it into what should be scientific discussions.
You're allowing emotions and weaknesses to take away from your inventing, and the respect this community can offer you.
I'm not especially a fan of Alan's grumpy old man's attitude myself, but actually liken that to your broken record drama queen act. Man up, and share the good stuff you've got to share.
You should look at Stephen Hawking. His work may be off sometimes, as is yours. But try and catch him on self-pity.
 
I like you more when you talk experimental science.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 20, 2012, 08:39:24 PM
Again, with the self pity and blaming others. I've been patient and you know it.
 
You evidently do not have better things to do, at least not when on OU websites. It's all about your obsession over Alan, and your self-pity. You have no idea how shitty the lives of some of the posters on here may be. They just don't drag it into what should be scientific discussions.
You're allowing emotions and weaknesses to take away from your inventing, and the respect this community can offer you.
I'm not especially a fan of Alan's grumpy old man's attitude myself, but actually liken that to your broken record drama queen act. Man up, and share the good stuff you've got to share.
You should look at Stephen Hawking. His work may be off sometimes, as is yours. But try and catch him on self-pity.
 
I like you more when you talk experimental science.

   Nah, I guess you don't like it when someone states a fact as fact. Things have been much worse for myself than what I've made known. And I have tried discussing the science behind the engineering. It seems that for some reason, I can go into greater detail.
 It might be the years I spent studying math specifically for this type of behavior.
 Unlike other sciences, the potential energy needs to be turned back on itself or it will be lost as entropy. I think this is one reason why the first builds I did many years ago was for the purpose of studying conservation of momentum. I tried discussing that in a  thread once, no one was interested. And no one seems to care that inertia will be equal to the acceleration caused by any over balance. Quite simply put, if inertia can not be negated without cost, then it will require an equal amount of work by the device to compensate for the inertial energy created by the over balance. That is the basic science and yet nobody seems to care those are the limits science puts on any attempt at mechanical overunity.
 I think understanding these things allows me to know that what I have been pursuing has a high degree of probability of working. But then, it doesn't matter if only I can understand it.
 Just like I have gone to school for basic and advanced blueprint reading, some CATI (computer aided 3 dimensional interactive design programming) as well as mechanical drawing and architecture in jumior high school. Plus my machining experience where I worked to tolerances of .0002" and did some cnc programming.
 This on top of going to school for Propulsion Engineering and working in an engineroom and working as a millwright over hauling and repairing steam turbines and generators up to 1500 kw. Needless to say, I have a well rounded background.
 This could be why I can see things in Bessler's drawings others have missed. I am used to applying and working with engineering in more than one way. Have even worked on cars since I was a kid. I guess what some critics miss is that between schooling and experience, maintaining a willingness to learn something new helps with Bessler and OU in general.
 I have learned a lot by studying Bessler's works. And the scientific explanation for WHY what I am building and do call Bessler's Working or Water Wheel is because the potential kinetic of one mass will be transferred to another physical body which will be realized by it developing and maintaining angular momentum. As such, the initial mass will not have inertia. It would be factored force = mass * 0 where 0 is no acceleration due to gravity.
 Quite simple if a person takes a moment to think about it. Because what happens is while the wheel has force = mass * 0 where 0 equals the balance of the wheel. a (potential to accelerate is thesame on both sides) cancels out a. This allows a from the initial mass to be transferred.
 Got it ?
 
 
 edited to add; Cloxxki, does Mr. Hawkings have to tolerate personal attacks while trying to discuss anything ? If not, then why should I be forced to endure it ? I see no reason yet Alan has always harassed me. But it is like when i asked a local repair shop to adjust my parking brake today. They told me the cable had broken. If it was, they would have seen it hanging free underneath the car. They didn't tell me they saw this. I will fix it myself.
 And this is why when I get around to it, I will build what I have been working on. But I can say that when other people can not keep up with the material, then attacking can be considered a defensive postion. I have been told before in this forum that what ever Alan does is okay because OU is not possible. I think that is what most people secretly believe.
 Even rlortie told me in besslerwheel.com that it has been 300 yearssince Bessler built his wheels so why try. And yet he financially helps to support that forum but does not support the idea of actaully building something.
 The reality is, this thread is not far off of what I have been trying to discuss. It uses many of the same principles but in a wheel type format. Doesn't matter though if you can't understand how the motion of the weight changes it's potential, does it ?
 
  Cloxxki, I know you guys don't care but i have missed 1 year of work in the last 3 years. And have worked in quite a bit of pain the last 2 years to keep my job. the 1st surgery came with unexpected complications which i am still dealing with. Why I am off work today, again. I think that in itself is more than enough for me to tolerate. Working on bessler's wheel has been mostly a coping mechanism to keep my mind off of my situation.
               
                                                              Best Wishes
                                                                    Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 20, 2012, 10:20:29 PM

You should look at Stephen Hawking. His work may be off sometimes, as is yours. But try and catch him on self-pity.
 

  Cloxxki,
 Both my sister and my niece have died from their disabilities. Nobody knows who they are.
Life isn't fair. as for myself, hope one day people will let me have a girlfriend. Without Bessler's wheel, doubt it will happen. Why ? Because I am retarded !
 In reality, I am not. But with my hearing loss, that is people's perception of me.
Ever go through 4 surgeries in 3 years by yourself ? treatment for cncer by yourself ?
 If not, what can I say. everybody is so tolerant of me because of the good life I have.
 If not for my American mother, my dad could have taken his coworkers up on their generous offers to buy him a one way ticket back to Norway. Americans can be generous when they want to be.
 But really, I do know what having a social life is like. Had one before I lost a significant part of my hearing. So unfortunately, I do know the difference. That is why I have had time to study math for a few years. One day, I might build again the model I used to study trigonometry. It's 3D with 3 sub sets. I used the mathematical model. I made the physical model just to see what it looked liked. Makes 2D much easier.
 To make a long story short, even if I am successful with Bessler's wheel, it will not be worth what I have lost. I try not to think about that part of it but it is always there. And Alan is a constant reminder of it. After all, he does have his family and yet he is unhappy. I have met many people like him.
 And what do I find funny ? When people find out I'm smart. Of course, if I were really smart, I would have that good life where I could be with my family rather than doing something like this. After all, do believe I will be successful. And I think this is why Bessler called his wheel Orphyreus. After the Lyre of Orpheus. Everybody knows about that. And me ? I would be Orpheus making Hermes (Bessler's) invention sing to show off for a woman I like   :D
 and if I didn't think things sucked sometimes, I wouldn't be human, would I ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 20, 2012, 11:07:42 PM
@ Johnny'
 I respect your ideas and situation, but in the little time I have to read, let alone respond to anything here, I don't really want to read about all your problems. I have my own, but  This is not the place for me to talk about them. I don't even know Alan or whoever, I just come here to learn. I don't go onto bessler threads ranting. You do not seem to have anything better to do, Because you have many other threads you comment on, or maybe your just kickass at typing. Whatever. My advice is to spend more time building and observing, it's the only way you will truly learn, since you already know all the angles of the engineering involved. Just lighten up and stop feeling like a victim. It doesn't have to be that way.
 Good luck , Greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 20, 2012, 11:51:47 PM
@ Johnny'
 I respect your ideas and situation, but in the little time I have to read, let alone respond to anything here, I don't really want to read about all your problems. I have my own, but  This is not the place for me to talk about them. I don't even know Alan or whoever, I just come here to learn. I don't go onto bessler threads ranting. You do not seem to have anything better to do, Because you have many other threads you comment on, or maybe your just kickass at typing. Whatever. My advice is to spend more time building and observing, it's the only way you will truly learn, since you already know all the angles of the engineering involved. Just lighten up and stop feeling like a victim. It doesn't have to be that way.
 Good luck , Greg
  gdez,
 If I wanted to hear a sermon, I would go to church.
 In the few years I have worked on Bessler and built, Alan has harassed me.He has built nothing but gets much respect for saying I am effed up. Even my having cancer did not stop him or prevent anyone from supporting him so bite me.
 As for learning, I probably know much more than you..
 
And show me where I was given a break for building while being treated for cancer. Please do that before you complain about me. I think Alan did more posting in that thread than anyone. And me ? I had about 1 hour a day if that when I could do somethng. Cancer treatment isn't easy ya know. Maybe if you learned some about people first, you wouldn't jump to conclusions. And I do think it wrong for people to make assumptions about me and then for people like you to try to justify them. But you guys do like Alan. He doesn't build, doesn't actually discuss anything. Makes it nice and easy for you guys.
 He is your kind. Au revoir, do sveedania  ;)
 And here's the thread and do read it. Follow your own advice. Learn something. As for me, you can ask Alan to show his work.
http://www.overunity.com/6900/my-current-build/ (http://www.overunity.com/6900/my-current-build/)
 
edited to add; gdez, what shows the truth about yourself is what you posted. You ignored everything I mentioned about engineering and science that supports it. With Cloxxki, he did say he prefers it when I discuss science.
 @Cloxxki, the math for what I am building is as follows; f = 1ma / 8m*(a - a) = x
the a -a shows the wheel has no opportunity to accelerate. The 1 ma shows 1 mass has the potential and if divided by 8, then the potential of the 8 weights to accelerate are known.   ;)
                                           
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 21, 2012, 12:15:02 AM
Hey Johnny,
 I have lost well over two dozen family members to cancer in the last ten years and my mom and younger brother are both presently dealing with cancer. Also I participate at 2 to 3 cancer related charities a year, or more. SO ... stop bringing that shit here. This is my hobby that i come to to get away from all that. Stop with the sad stories, I've alrerady heard them all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 21, 2012, 05:50:14 PM
Hey Johnny,
 I have lost well over two dozen family members to cancer in the last ten years and my mom and younger brother are both presently dealing with cancer. Also I participate at 2 to 3 cancer related charities a year, or more. SO ... stop bringing that shit here. This is my hobby that i come to to get away from all that. Stop with the sad stories, I've alrerady heard them all.
Hey Johnny,
 I have lost well over two dozen family members to cancer in the last ten years and my mom and younger brother are both presently dealing with cancer. Also I participate at 2 to 3 cancer related charities a year, or more. SO ... stop bringing that shit here. This is my hobby that i come to to get away from all that. Stop with the sad stories, I've alrerady heard them all.

  Hmmm, over 24 family memebers ? that's an incredible number. You'll have to understand my skepticism. With myself, I did diagnose my own cancer because my mom had died from it 4 years earlier. But as Alan always said, he walks with a cane. And I have seen other people post medical disabilities and nobody ever talked down to them, only me. Why ?
 I do build and post my work. I have made videos, used diagrams, etc. But I am the only person talked down to for having continuing problems from cancer. Again, why ?
 I did buy another rotary tool last night. I might take it back. It does seem that showing actual work is probably what is disliked most in this forum. Afterall, those other people who say they have a disability, those people, people discuss builds with even though they do not show any work. It is interesting but I have always told Alan that he is jealous of me because of the work I can do.
 After all, postive minded people focus on the positives gdez. With me, you focus on the negative even though I am working through my medical issues the best I can. Would you say the same thing to anyone in your family ? I do not think so. Yet I am getting harassed for doing just that. Maybe it is where I am making progress and not giving other people the opportunity to promote their own issues as a reason they can not do more than post and make claims.
 And yet Alan criticizes me for having my own forum. It is only myself but I can discuss things in engineering that I can not discuss in here. But I do know what is simpe gdez, like you say, you have family. I am not able to be around mine because they believe my eharing loss is much more than it is. Not being able to be like Stefan Hawking and pursue my own life is frustrating. And then to have someone like AB Hammer tell me the only way I will be credible is when they speak on my behalf and tell people that he likes my work and will be my voice of reason. I don't think so.
 In short, I would say I get no respect for what I have dealt with and worked through. What is even sadder is that I recieve no respect for trying to demonstrate what I have learned and what Bessler did know. Who knows, maybe it is something you guys will never understand and if you saw it working, it might be like watching children who play on swings and teeter-totters, you'll wonder how do they do it. After all, this thread is about swings and teeter-totters  :D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on January 23, 2012, 11:10:27 AM
to all... let's come back to posting only about free energy and overunity? that is the name and the aim of this forum. thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 23, 2012, 03:38:37 PM
to all... let's come back to posting only about free energy and overunity? that is the name and the aim of this forum. thanks.

  andrea,
 It is well known that a pendulum suffers entropy.
At some point, someone is going to need to show
where something acts on the pendulum causing it to
accelerate restoring it's lost momentum.
 Unfortunately, in 130 pages, haven't seen it yet.
As much as these guys might not like it, I have been dealing
with severe medical issues for the last 3 years and have
tolerated much harassment for building the best I could.
 I am going to stop everything I have been doing until such time
as I resolve my medical issues and can move to some place
where I would have a place to set up a small wood working shop.
It takes more than money to build, it also takes having the right
 equipment to work with.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 25, 2012, 03:05:49 AM
Here are the news from veljkomilkovic.com e-newsletter:


academician Veljko Milkovic -- An Invention Possibly Greater Than the Wheel[/font]

Wide usage of the rotation, mainly in the form of a wheel, is deemed to be the best solution, which even new constructions are aspiring to use. However, last years some experiments have achieved greater efficiency with usage of oscillatory devices.
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_An_Invention_Possibly_Greater_Than_the_Wheel.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_An_Invention_Possibly_Greater_Than_the_Wheel.pdf)


Zoran Markovic, Ph.D. -- Two-Stage and Three-Stage Oscillator as a Compressor

A new scientific paper by Zoran Markovic, Ph.D.: the purpose of this paper is to explain the functioning of two-stage and three-stage mechanical oscillator, i.e. to demonstrate the possibility of generation of excess energy in two-stage mechanical oscillator invented by academician Veljko Milkovic. Compression of air would be proposed for potential application of two-stage and three-stage oscillators. The paper would discuss the dynamics of the body when gravitational forces acts upon it and the methods of obtaining the over unity.
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Dr_Zoran_Markovic_Two-Stage_and_Three-Stage_Oscillator_as_a_Compressor.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Dr_Zoran_Markovic_Two-Stage_and_Three-Stage_Oscillator_as_a_Compressor.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 25, 2012, 01:51:11 PM
@Merg ,.I was most disappointed by the two articles shown above . In my posts above I have shown a simple cheap method which provides irrefutable proof that the 2SO is not overunity . The only thing that was new to me was the 3 stage oscillator . Exactly the same method could be used to test for OU in the 3 stage version . I have shown a simple way to measure input and output . When someone can demonstrate a physical model , that when tested by my method shows greater output than input , then I will be impressed . Untill that time , what is the point of mathematicians spewing forth masses of irrelevant algebra ? They are living in cloud cuckoo land .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 26, 2012, 09:25:09 PM
@Merg ,.I was most disappointed by the two articles shown above . In my posts above I have shown a simple cheap method which provides irrefutable proof that the 2SO is not overunity . The only thing that was new to me was the 3 stage oscillator . Exactly the same method could be used to test for OU in the 3 stage version . I have shown a simple way to measure input and output . When someone can demonstrate a physical model , that when tested by my method shows greater output than input , then I will be impressed . Untill that time , what is the point of mathematicians spewing forth masses of irrelevant algebra ? They are living in cloud cuckoo land .

   Neptune,
>> Untill that time , what is the point of mathematicians spewing forth masses of irrelevant algebra ?  <<

  I agree. I think the following calculus better describes what they're trying to accomplish. What do you think ?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/math/4/5/7/457e0e895fac0f3cb6bd77a7ae35654c.png)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 26, 2012, 10:49:06 PM
Hi Johnny . I freely admit that I would not recognise Calculus if it jumped up and bit me . My point was , that you can apply whatever branch of mathematics you like , but unless you can demonstrate that force x distance on the input is less than force times distance on the output , mathematics is irrelevant . For the first time I have shown an easy way to measure input and output accurately .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 27, 2012, 12:50:18 AM
Hi Johnny . I freely admit that I would not recognise Calculus if it jumped up and bit me . My point was , that you can apply whatever branch of mathematics you like , but unless you can demonstrate that force x distance on the input is less than force times distance on the output , mathematics is irrelevant . For the first time I have shown an easy way to measure input and output accurately .

  I only got as far as trig. wish I learned more. But math does help as well as auto mechanics.
 
>>  but unless you can demonstrate that force x distance on the input is less than force times distance on the output , mathematics is irrelevant   <<
that's wrong. a pendulum's potential comes from it's vertical drop. that's why I consider torque important. but that is something everyone ignores until you get in your car. and if your car doesn't have enough, then you buy a different car with a little bit bigger motor so it can accelerate.
( Horse )power is moving a load a specific distance in a set amount of time, but torque is what accelerates in mechanics and everybody has over looked this for 130 pages. I find that in itself difficult to believe.
 But am making plans for doing a simple build of Bessler's wheel or what I consider it to be. Who knows what the guy really did ? Still, he is very influential in my work. I think I would have liked him.
 
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 27, 2012, 11:15:56 AM
What's to be overlooked about torque?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque)
 
It's perfectly convertible, no loose ends. Is there a cheat?
A concept difficult to grasp does not automatically make a likely OU keyhole.
 
We need a vote to get the 2SO off our drawing tables, so we can go on to the next invention.

Cast your votes, is the 2SO OU or not?

I vote NOT and add that the inventors use their lack of understanding of physics as their proof of OU.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on January 27, 2012, 01:00:13 PM
@Johnny874 .It is good to see that your recent posts have a bit more of a positive output . There may well be something about torque that we have all overlooked . However , if this is the case , people are unlikely to be convinced unless they see a physical model that demonstrates more output than input .By the way , you recently said that your OU research is a "coping mechanism ". That may well be true of us all to a greater or lesser extent . I have said that I feel I have proved , at least to myself , that the 2SO is not overunity ,.To try to convince others would be an uphill task . It is not what people , least of all Milkovic , would like to hear . It reminds me of the story of the Emperors new clothes . Nevertheless , I think Milkovic is " altogether as naked as the day that he was born ."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 27, 2012, 01:23:41 PM
@Johnny874 .It is good to see that your recent posts have a bit more of a positive output . There may well be something about torque that we have all overlooked . However , if this is the case , people are unlikely to be convinced unless they see a physical model that demonstrates more output than input .By the way , you recently said that your OU research is a "coping mechanism ". That may well be true of us all to a greater or lesser extent . I have said that I feel I have proved , at least to myself , that the 2SO is not overunity ,.To try to convince others would be an uphill task . It is not what people , least of all Milkovic , would like to hear . It reminds me of the story of the Emperors new clothes . Nevertheless , I think Milkovic is " altogether as naked as the day that he was born ."

   Neptune,
 The Emperor being naked was also used to describe the person that figured out Fractal Geometry. Fractal geometry has helped lead to advances in technology. When it was used to describe him, it was because they thought FG was a joke  ;)
 I think with me, my posting is about the same as ever. But do know what I will be pursuing and how. After I demonstrate what it is, successful or not, I might give this a shot to show how it could work. With machines, it's not always doing what you like but what the engineering allows. And I have found most often that people are resistant to change, but that is nothing new. It'll be about a month before I can get serious about what I'm doing. Until then, Happy Posting   :D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 28, 2012, 09:08:28 PM
Veljko Milkovic - Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator - 3D stereoscopic simulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHngOhnbVo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on January 28, 2012, 11:11:55 PM
Veljko Milkovic - Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator - 3D stereoscopic simulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHngOhnbVo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHngOhnbVo)
Nice for the museum. But hasn't enough work been done to document this train of though?

the spring may be less inefficient in keeping the pendulum going. The way you guys like to measure output though, there will be less. The way I measure it, you have another version of a device built to reduce a pendulum's amplitude to zero, without any positive work having been done.


It is time for new attempts. This one didn't work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on January 31, 2012, 08:20:36 PM
Nice for the museum. But hasn't enough work been done to document this train of though?

the spring may be less inefficient in keeping the pendulum going. The way you guys like to measure output though, there will be less. The way I measure it, you have another version of a device built to reduce a pendulum's amplitude to zero, without any positive work having been done.


It is time for new attempts. This one didn't work.

  @All,
 Since I have time while pursuing my build, I thought I would demonstrate some math that shows other possibilities.
 I know Cloxxki is familiar with newtons of force. It might be helpful for anyone interested to become familiar with it as well. Basically, a weight has 9.8 newtons acting on it when it is at rest. Why it has weight or mass. When it is moving, 1kg moving at 1 meter a second has 1 newton of force.
 This will help everyone to understand how potential energy might be realized in a pendulum.
If a 1kg weight is 1 meter from the fulcrum, this allows newtons and trigonometry to help show what potential there might be.
 The attached drawing shows points A, B and C. A is the start of the swing, C  is bottom center of it's swing and B is a 5 degree lift.
 When the pendulum swings 5 degrees of rotaion or 8.7cm's, a  lever that is 120 degrees will rotate upwards 8.7mm's. And this would happen with a drop of 4cm's.
 
 What this allows for is a 1/2kg weight being lifted .87cm's. I know, it doesn't sound like much, does it ? What does need to be consider is that if a weight swings from A to C, what is it's velocity ? You see, at bottom center, a pendulum quits accelerating. And if the 1/2 kg weight has more force than a weight swinging from A to C, then it can accelerate it (possibly) and allow for the pendulum to swing high enough to return to it's start position and repeat the process. This is where math can predict the outcome before building. A build would only help to demonstrate and verify that the math has shown a potential source of free energy.
 By the way, with a 1kg weight 50cm's from center line of the fulcrum, it could lift a maximum of 5 times it's weight. In reality, a 2 1/2 kg weight might be lifted to be stored energy for accelerating the pendulum. This would allow the pendulum to still be accelerating, even if under load.
 If math shows the potential is real (this is where calculating all force in newtons allows for a single standard which allows for easy comparison), then the question would be how to allow the weight being lifted to accelerate a pendulum.
 And the link is for an on line force conversion, might help.
 
http://www.onlineconversion.com/force.htm (http://www.onlineconversion.com/force.htm)
 
edited to correct spelling  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 01, 2012, 01:44:09 AM
   @All,
 What might or might not matter is that gravity exerts 9.8 newtons on a weight.
By lifting a 1kg weight, it would have 9.8 newtons of force. And if the swinging
weight has and/or requires less force than 9.8 newtons, would it accelerate enough ?
 Any way, something to think about. Also, in a TSMO, is it possible to have one
pendulum use leverage to accelerate the other ? Again, who knows. This of course
gets into engineering, but then again, we are talking about a machine, right ?
 As for me, will probably do a slow build of what I've been doing.
 One last thought, the yellow line is a center line. Leverage should be factored by
a weight's relationship to the center line. And by using 1kg @ 1 meter, it allows for esy
use of trigonometry and newton's (N = 1kg m/s^2).
 
                                                                                             Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on February 01, 2012, 05:30:32 PM
A moving weight HAVING force? I thought it has kinetic energy.
It can EXERT force when meeting an opposite force, but only until energy runs out, or as gravity provides.
 
Please do correct me when wrong.
 
I will try to make a point of every post here ending with my belief that the 2SO is based on fuzzy physics, false claims. NOT over unity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 01, 2012, 05:49:40 PM
  @All,
 If you consider a 1kg weight with .5N of force, @ 1m, it would generate sufficient torque to operate Mt 26. This might be why he said "Behind this problem one looks for an augmented problem".
 The motion itself is @ a 2:1 ratio. And as seen in other drawings, Bessler was aware of having levers working in opposition to each other. This would help to cancel out their effect on any imbalance they would create wile performing work while moving a weight to an over balanced and an under balanced position, something necessary for potential free energy.
 And with 4 sets of weights, there would be 8 in all, an amount Bessler did say he used.
 Of course, I also like what Tom came up with. If you consider that if a weight dropping 4cm's while moving 8.7 cm's lifts something 8.7 mm's, the 8.7 might be able to be amplified by using scissors. If so, then with 2 sets of scissors the 8.7 mm's could become 3.48 cm's.
 What is nice about this is staying strictly with drop to lift and mass ratios, it would not be that difficult to see if a 1.5 kg weight could be lifted. If so, it would be about a 40% increase in potential. I did a quick check, @ 1.15 kg's, the 3.48 cm lift is the same as a 1 kg weight dropping 4 cm's. This would allow for an easy check to see if extra energy could be realized using this concept. If so, then I guess all that would be left is putting more work into to build a wheel or just to have a perpetual pendulum.
 What works for Tom's idea might also work for Mt 26.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on February 01, 2012, 07:07:09 PM
Hi guys .I can not really comment on Bessler matters , because it is not something I have studied . All I will say is this . If it can be demonstrated that a 1Kg weight falling a given distance can raise a 1.5 kg weight a similar distance , then there will be a host of volunteers to build a a complete machine based on the same principle .
        I have been in touch with Jovan Marjonovic . I told him about my measurement methods and experiments .He built a 2SO where the load weight was prevented from falling by a ratchet ,  although he did not use my method of a movable marker to show the highest point of pendulum swing . He freely admits that the model failed to show OU . He still believes that using a vary long pendulum and a small pivot drop , that OU may be possible . Personally I strongly doubt this , and it has yet to be proved .
       So , Johnny .if you can demonstrate proof of concept , maybe that is all you will need to do .Regards , Ken
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on February 01, 2012, 08:29:00 PM
Ken, that's a breakthrough! One on the proponents agreeing there is no OU, and only maybe with a long pendulum.

Jim, I don't have a physics degree to prove you wrong, but I have all kinds of alarm bells in my head that you've mixing up force, torque and energy again. And yes, there is OU everywhere then. I've come to several designs that way myself.
Please go back one step and elaborate just on the claim of a weight moving, and "having force". This has nothing to do with English being your second language. You are cutting numerous corners, or you're simply in the wrong dimension. Your latest post I simply cannot read, it definately belongs in a Bessler thread.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 01, 2012, 11:28:10 PM
Ken, that's a breakthrough! One on the proponents agreeing there is no OU, and only maybe with a long pendulum.

Jim, I don't have a physics degree to prove you wrong, but I have all kinds of alarm bells in my head that you've mixing up force, torque and energy again. And yes, there is OU everywhere then. I've come to several designs that way myself.
Please go back one step and elaborate just on the claim of a weight moving, and "having force". This has nothing to do with English being your second language. You are cutting numerous corners, or you're simply in the wrong dimension. Your latest post I simply cannot read, it definately belongs in a Bessler thread.

  Cloxxki, is the problem that maybe Bessler found a solution to this problem ? Even the Egyptians in the time of Archimedes used something similar to a TSMO to draw water from the Nile to irrigate their fields. That was over 4,000 years ago.
 But as stated on Wikipedia, current understanding does not allow for perpetual motion. 
edited to add;   Archimedes who invented (got credit for) the screw pump died in the year 2012 B.C.E. His screw pump is also believed to have been used in the Hanging Gardens, one of the Wonders of the World in antiquity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 03, 2012, 05:26:47 PM
Even the Egyptians in the time of Archimedes used something similar to a TSMO to draw water from the Nile to irrigate their fields. That was over 4,000 years ago.
Do you mean "Pharaoh's pump" or something else?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 03, 2012, 06:51:48 PM
Do you mean "Pharaoh's pump" or something else?

  They had a bucket on one side and a counter weight on the other. Made lifting the bucket easier. What I don't get is if using scissors would allow motion to be amplified (greater distance travelled) with no extra expenditure of energy, then what's the problem ? But it is one. Go figure, only in an over unity forum  :o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on February 03, 2012, 09:21:56 PM
Movement along the curvature of the earth is basically always free of charge unless you go look for resistance. Endless ways to get from A to B at no nett cost.
With a rod, pivot and some free space underneath, a dead weight turns into a pendulum that's already lifted to starting height.
I once made calcs online to show that a large enough pendulum of halfpipe track could compete with air travel for transit time. What it takes is height.
You can save energy from traditional modes of transport, reduce to zero theoretically, but you can't move up a weight by even 1mm for free.


He who shows me 1mm of free vertical movement, will receive a gravity wheel in return.


Again, this does NOT belong in this thread. The 2SO is supposed to be discussed, and I say it's a fraud or very unprofessional claim.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 03, 2012, 10:53:09 PM
Movement along the curvature of the earth is basically always free of charge unless you go look for resistance. Endless ways to get from A to B at no nett cost.
With a rod, pivot and some free space underneath, a dead weight turns into a pendulum that's already lifted to starting height.
I once made calcs online to show that a large enough pendulum of halfpipe track could compete with air travel for transit time. What it takes is height.
You can save energy from traditional modes of transport, reduce to zero theoretically, but you can't move up a weight by even 1mm for free.


He who shows me 1mm of free vertical movement, will receive a gravity wheel in return.


Again, this does NOT belong in this thread. The 2SO is supposed to be discussed, and I say it's a fraud or very unprofessional claim.

>>  Again, this does NOT belong in this thread  <<
 
 I did send the suggestion to the guy who has the TSMO.
 If you check early on, I posted that using a lever and another pendulum would only increase the entropic rate. It should be nothing new. Raising a lever does not necessarily mean the weight will be lifted. With the TSMO, it diminishes the swing which in turn diminishes the vertical drop. And it is the vertical drop which allows for acceleration. The distance over which a weight drops only slows it'sacceleration over time. Something very much accepted in physics is that a weight dropping 1m will have the same velocity after dropping one meter even if it rolls down a ramp. Resistence would make a slight adjustment, but the values would basically be the same.
 But then, why not discuss how something could work ? I know, wrong subject.
Sorry and Au Revoir, Do Sveedanya   ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: andrea on February 05, 2012, 11:03:59 AM
The 2SO is supposed to be discussed, and I say it's a fraud or very unprofessional claim.

Ok Cloxxki, you said it many, many times. I think all the people in this forum understanded it: for you this machine is not OU. But, where's the problem if people reasons on 2SO again? If you look on the left of the page you could see this is a "overunity forum". Nothing wrong if in this place people talk about machines that could (or not) be overunity, I suppose...  Maybe it's you that are in the wrong place. 
Some considerations:
1) You speak about "fraud", well, remember that mr. Milkovic and mr. Marjanovic have never asked money or sold anything about the theory of 2SO. Do you know what it means to "respect" for those who put their own face in the game for free?
2) I have tried by myself to build this machine, starting in 2010. You could see my attempts in my youtube page, Babarlizia. Well, today (5-2-2012) I have not a response, I can't say if this machine is OU or not. I only know that it's very harder to build in all is parts, and I only know that if you have a pivot point's movement of ten or more cm the machine surely can't work. But it's very, very difficult reduce the displacement of this part.
3) A very interesting paper (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Secret_of_Free_Energy_from_Pendulum.pdf) (distributed freely....) try to explain the maths of this machine. It doesn't say that this is always OU. It just assumes that the machine could be OU, given certain conditions. No one today has tried to realize a machine based on this formulas. Well, if you think that this is a very unprofessional claims, please read it and demonstrate that the formulas are wrong. Otherwise, please stop your posting "This is a unprofessional claim, this is a fraud, this is not OU". We all have understanded your concept, it's clear.

Ciao a tutti.

 
 

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on February 06, 2012, 08:14:43 PM
Ok Cloxxki, you said it many, many times. I think all the people in this forum understanded it: for you this machine is not OU. But, where's the problem if people reasons on 2SO again? If you look on the left of the page you could see this is a "overunity forum". Nothing wrong if in this place people talk about machines that could (or not) be overunity, I suppose...  Maybe it's you that are in the wrong place. 
Some considerations:
1) You speak about "fraud", well, remember that mr. Milkovic and mr. Marjanovic have never asked money or sold anything about the theory of 2SO. Do you know what it means to "respect" for those who put their own face in the game for free?
2) I have tried by myself to build this machine, starting in 2010. You could see my attempts in my youtube page, Babarlizia. Well, today (5-2-2012) I have not a response, I can't say if this machine is OU or not. I only know that it's very harder to build in all is parts, and I only know that if you have a pivot point's movement of ten or more cm the machine surely can't work. But it's very, very difficult reduce the displacement of this part.
3) A very interesting paper (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Secret_of_Free_Energy_from_Pendulum.pdf) (distributed freely....) try to explain the maths of this machine. It doesn't say that this is always OU. It just assumes that the machine could be OU, given certain conditions. No one today has tried to realize a machine based on this formulas. Well, if you think that this is a very unprofessional claims, please read it and demonstrate that the formulas are wrong. Otherwise, please stop your posting "This is a unprofessional claim, this is a fraud, this is not OU". We all have understanded your concept, it's clear.

Ciao a tutti.
1) You don't need to ask money to make something a fraud. The motive of money can also be reached via a detour. If I would offer a service of keeping the world's foremost scientists busy to research claims of devices I'd device specifcally for that purpose, I would know where to look for buyers of my service. Don't dream that we live in a world where misinformation isn't worth money. Or at least accept that others will spot frauds where you see good humanity at work.


2) The numbers of centimeters doesn't matter. You can't loop it woith movement restricted to 0.1mm either. Less is returned that taken out. I think I saw your vid, but can't get it to show on my computer now. The 2SO is presented as a 12x OU device. Oh no, it's 3.75x now. But not even 1.01 can be shown. It's an unsubstantiated claim, and it doesn't deserve the attention of anyone with a workshop, let alone replication. The long-standing OU claim with more and more press brought out without solution, is VERY BAD.


3)
In their pretty document, they immediate use the word overunity just for a weight that moves lower due to the CF pull on it. As well-educated as they are with the device, that's borderline criminal. It undermines the whole FE community join and makes such rookie statements. The signing scientist, after contact with Neptune, now apparently says that likely there is no OU to be had, just maybe.
All the nice math is beyond me (I can disprove it decently with my own kindergarten math though), and my attention spam doesn't allow for pages full of empty words. This now doc shows much smaller claims than their early where, where they basically gave the reader a spoon to scoop up all the OU flowing off it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 08, 2012, 01:44:03 AM
Ok Cloxxki, you said it many, many times. I think all the people in this forum understanded it: for you this machine is not OU. But, where's the problem if people reasons on 2SO again? If you look on the left of the page you could see this is a "overunity forum". Nothing wrong if in this place people talk about machines that could (or not) be overunity, I suppose...  Maybe it's you that are in the wrong place. 
Some considerations:
1) You speak about "fraud", well, remember that mr. Milkovic and mr. Marjanovic have never asked money or sold anything about the theory of 2SO. Do you know what it means to "respect" for those who put their own face in the game for free?
2) I have tried by myself to build this machine, starting in 2010. You could see my attempts in my youtube page, Babarlizia. Well, today (5-2-2012) I have not a response, I can't say if this machine is OU or not. I only know that it's very harder to build in all is parts, and I only know that if you have a pivot point's movement of ten or more cm the machine surely can't work. But it's very, very difficult reduce the displacement of this part.
3) A very interesting paper (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Secret_of_Free_Energy_from_Pendulum.pdf) (distributed freely....) try to explain the maths of this machine. It doesn't say that this is always OU. It just assumes that the machine could be OU, given certain conditions. No one today has tried to realize a machine based on this formulas. Well, if you think that this is a very unprofessional claims, please read it and demonstrate that the formulas are wrong. Otherwise, please stop your posting "This is a unprofessional claim, this is a fraud, this is not OU". We all have understanded your concept, it's clear.

Ciao a tutti.

 Je suis un Americain  :o  Ja ne rooskie !
 
 Seriously though, I think what the authors of the TSO considered as a possibility was with 12x the power (estimate?) that if someone of it could be returned to the system which is the feedback loop mentioned.
 It would need to be considered how the 12x is aachieved. Between inertia and leverage, the pendulum's potential does increase. Leverage has always been considered as a 1:1 system.
 What is left is if the inertia can be realized. I am not so sure of this. What helps his system to be efficient for it's original purpose is that when a pendulum changes direction, the weight has a minimal effect on the pendulum. And with a counter weight, it does making the pumping of water easier.
 One possibility would be to see if by opening scissors from the side. By doing so, with 2 sections, the energy required to open them causing the lowest point to move upwards a greater distance might be possible. Scissors repeat a motion. It has not been tested to see if if effecting energy at 90 degrees is not possible. An immigrant named Nikola Tesla went against accepted engineering when he said that a dyno could run 90 degrees out of phase. Of course, everyone knows this is the basis of the a.c. generator. As such, all forms of energy generation and manipulation require systems. I am not sure of a singularity that in itself can generate energy. But energy conversion has been shown time and time again to be possible in many different ways. I am not sure why gravity should be any different.
 And now I do need to return to Bessler. It was a magnificent machine that he did build  8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 08, 2012, 05:01:43 PM
  @Andrea,
 I diagrammed a single pendulum with one counter weight.
What I realized is that leveraging does allow for one possible way.
Another may be possible, but will consider this way first. The weights
will be given a mass of 1 kg for the purposes of analysis.
 With both the counter weight and the fulcrum for the pendulum 1.3 meters
from the pivot point (A) of the lever, and with the weight of the pendul
1 meter from the center of it's fulcrum, I gave it a swing of 30 degrees to
each side for a total lateral movement of 1 meter.
 When the weight of the pendulum swings towards it's counter weight, it is
then .8 meters from the point A. This would give the counter weight the extra
energy equal to 1kg @ .5 meters. How this could work is if the weight of the
pendulum were caught by something that is suspended from the lever above it.
 This would change it's physical interaction within the system. When the lever
rotates in the direction of the counter weight (clockwise), the extra
energy could be used used to lift the weight of the pendulum. If the system performs
other work, then it is possible only a time delay might be suffered. Back to the
mechanics of the system.
 When the lever rotates to it's stopping point, the weight of the fulcrum could be
released allowing it to swing freely. As we know, it will cause the lever to rotate in it's
direction (counter clockwise). If the lever is held in this rotated position, it would allow
I think a better chance of the mechanics working. This is because there would be 2
control points for shifting the lever and utilizing it's potential.
 
@Cloxxki, it has been realized that gravity can violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
In the U.S. space administration, they have used a principle discovered by a Russian scientist
who in the 1950's believed that a planet could accelerate another body. The deep space probes
use this principle to extend their lives and return more information of the outer reaches of our
solar system to scientists who might benefit from such information.
 
                                                                                                      Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 09, 2012, 06:28:37 PM
    correction;
 If a weight is .8 meters from a pivot point and weighs 1 kg, then a weight @ 1.3 meters would have about 50% more force.
 Also, if the lever rotates 15 degrees above and below a plane level with the pivot point, the weight of the pendulum would be lifted about .4 meters. This would increase it's potential.
 Au revior  :D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 12, 2012, 07:38:58 PM
related research

Libella With Inertial Propulsion Engine - Antigravity Effect - Stereoscopic format
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3dg47m94jg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 16, 2012, 05:25:07 PM
It is not directly related to this topic, but it is interesting to mention here

Modified FM Chalkalis Energy Multiplier - 1330% Efficiency
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-C0x6xtL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-C0x6xtL4)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 16, 2012, 11:08:47 PM
It is not directly related to this topic, but it is interesting to mention here

Modified FM Chalkalis Energy Multiplier - 1330% Efficiency
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-C0x6xtL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-C0x6xtL4)

  He should try wiring up a generator like Thane Heins did and see what power output is.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 18, 2012, 03:35:26 PM
   Andrea,
 This is with a 15 degree tilt. It lifts the weight on the pendulum about 20 cm's.
The catch and release mechanism would be the tricky part.
 I think realistically speaking, something like this does not need so much tilt.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on February 22, 2012, 11:49:21 PM
   Andrea,
 This is with a 15 degree tilt. It lifts the weight on the pendulum about 20 cm's.
The catch and release mechanism would be the tricky part.
 I think realistically speaking, something like this does not need so much tilt.

johnne874 / Jim Lindgaard

 Quick sending me PMs with your strange words. I have asked before but you just can't leave me alone can you. >:(
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 23, 2012, 12:24:19 AM
johnne874 / Jim Lindgaard

 Quick sending me PMs with your strange words. I have asked before but you just can't leave me alone can you. >:(

  Quit is spelled Q-U-I-T. Just sharing thoughts with an old friend. I like you and only wish the best for you   :D
After all, you helped me through my rough times with cancer   ;)
 By the way, have you started your diet yet to make it easier on yourself  ? It's well known that canes can only do
so much and if you put forth a little effort like I've always encouraged you to, you might find your own going
a little easier.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 23, 2012, 05:14:59 PM
Magnetic Pendulum - 3DS MAX Reactor Simulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMhVKK5_iU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMhVKK5_iU)
 
Magnetic Pendulum Motor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RJF4OBa6eI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RJF4OBa6eI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on February 24, 2012, 02:46:45 AM

  Quit is spelled Q-U-I-T. Just sharing thoughts with an old friend. I like you and only wish the best for you   :D
After all, you helped me through my rough times with cancer   ;)
 By the way, have you started your diet yet to make it easier on yourself  ? It's well known that canes can only do
so much and if you put forth a little effort like I've always encouraged you to, you might find your own going
a little easier.

LOL yea I flubbed it up, 103 temp does make someone a bit cross eyed. still sick so I am not going to write any more just in case I do it again.  LOL ::) Real sick for it sounds like you are saying nice things. I think.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 24, 2012, 06:14:31 PM
LOL yea I flubbed it up, 103 temp does make someone a bit cross eyed. still sick so I am not going to write any more just in case I do it again.  LOL ::) Real sick for it sounds like you are saying nice things. I think.

  well Alan, it's like I told you in the pm, one reason I got badly screwed was by trying t help a couple of my brothers who were sexually molested. Most people like that never recover and and are usually quite self destructive.

edited to add;  since I do have a place to build, really have nothing to discuss. Would have been nice working with other people but as they say over at besslerwheel.com where you are a respected member, there is a reason why people like me are voted out. Building isn't credible.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on February 25, 2012, 12:04:50 AM
   Alan,
 Can I ask how you got so lucky ?
You know, having a family and kids ?
You must be loved by God very much to have such riches in your life.
And me ? All I have is a stupid wheel I don't want.
And you wonder why I think my life sucks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 26, 2012, 04:44:04 PM
bedini powered milkovic two stage oscillator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3_DKdiN1w4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3_DKdiN1w4)

"This video shows the machine I showed in a previous video. I have changed the weight of the pendulum to 125lbs with the same Bedini coil with the ssg circuit"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 26, 2012, 04:56:51 PM
Bedini with a pendulum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLZMQmbCxE8#t=36m04s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLZMQmbCxE8#t=36m04s)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 05, 2012, 05:12:20 PM
Easy Over Unity

"Demonstration of how to easily obtain over unity through centripetal force."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HX_nnqv9_o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 06, 2012, 04:53:33 PM
related pendulum research


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fNcUO4LSeo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBy8XpqGLzA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJVI6pITRio


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWxmJKYacss



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 12, 2012, 12:15:46 AM
Gravity pendulum generator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFrMH3oSSqE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2012, 10:00:01 AM
i have one simple question.....
 
if this pendulum-hammer / oscillator is 12x OU
 
Can anyone link me to a YouTube video of this operating a clockwork entrapment and self oscillating?
please???
 
if not,.. take a moment to make one,.. its simple technology , been in use for hundreds of years...
surely some of those 12x can be recycled??
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on March 12, 2012, 05:10:25 PM
i have one simple question.....
 
if this pendulum-hammer / oscillator is 12x OU
 
Can anyone link me to a YouTube video of this operating a clockwork entrapment and self oscillating?
please???
 
if not,.. take a moment to make one,.. its simple technology , been in use for hundreds of years...
surely some of those 12x can be recycled??

  @sm0ky2,
 The "inventor" never claimed OU.  it was merely for use as a more efficient means of manually pumping water.
 If I understand correctly, the 12x's comes from a combination of leverage and inertia.
 As for an OU device, have already posted one way that a single counter weighted pendulum might work.
This is why tonight I will be able to start buying tools to start build my own work shop. Not to pursue this, but my own ideas. This would be a pretty basic demonstration of math/engineering.

                                                                                                                                   Jim   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 19, 2012, 04:24:37 AM
I'm not sure if we watched this earlier

pendulum and lever energy gain ideas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve6IbTp4Fj4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on March 23, 2012, 02:18:31 PM

My personal opinion about 12x OU, and how I understand this:
 Measurements who were performed in the laboratory are Conditional and not final. So, in my opinion, there is more than 12x. This is obtained in their laboratory, and other measurements have shown even better results.
I have to mention that these are independent measurements.
 
Therefore, I suggest a look at the work http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energetic_Paradox.pdf
 becouse it is very important for us to know about this.

All the best! :)


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 23, 2012, 06:12:15 PM
How Milkovic's two stage oscillator might work perpetually
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNuyUg7uOzs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: parisd on March 24, 2012, 03:12:10 PM
I have found nothing in the 4 pages Energetic paradox pdf that you attached, except that heavy pendulums last longer the light ones !
 
My personal opinion about 12x OU, and how I understand this:
 Measurements who were performed in the laboratory are Conditional and not final. So, in my opinion, there is more than 12x. This is obtained in their laboratory, and other measurements have shown even better results.
I have to mention that these are independent measurements.
 
Therefore, I suggest a look at the work http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energetic_Paradox.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energetic_Paradox.pdf)
 becouse it is very important for us to know about this.

All the best! :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 25, 2012, 06:14:18 AM
I had to admit that I did not read the 133 pages of this thread.  I thought the Physics and Mathematics was worked out since 2004 when Lee Cheung Kin and I published the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory.
 
I shall summarize the understanding of the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum and why it is an efficient overunity device here again.
 
1.       When we pulse-push a pendulum, we lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.  For a simple horizontal push, we can use 2 parts of horizontal energy to lead-out 1 part of gravitational energy.  I am attaching the xls file for those who want to see the equations.
2.       The best pulse-push is actually tangential.  The COP will even be higher compared with 1.5 in point 1.
3.       When we consider the two stages: pendulum as one stage and lever as another stage, we can see that there is another mechanism leading-out gravitational energy.  This mechanism is most evident in the video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8)
4.       Note that the pendulum bob weight (46 pounds) is not enough to lift the Weight on the LHS (74 pounds).  The additional mechanism is the centrifugal force due to circular motion.  The centrifugal force is highest when the velocity is highest.  This occurs when the pendulum bob is at the lowest position.
5.       Now the centrifugal force plus the pendulum bob weight can be slightly more than 74 pounds and thus the LHS weight is lifted.  Work is done.  Note that the pendulum continues to swing with a lower velocity.  The centrifugal force will then be less.  The 74 pound weight will fall back with a much less opposing force.  This effectively is another mechanism of leading-out gravitational force.
6.       To repeat, we are using a 46 pound weight (Wp) plus a varying centrifugal force (Fc) to lift a 74 pound weight Wg.  The centrifugal force is a “freebee” due to the oscillation motion of the pendulum. This “freebee” force helped to lift the weight Wg.  We can assume that this “freebee” force is at least equal to 28 (74-46) pounds.
7.       To summarize, the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum has TWO mechanisms to lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.  Thus it is more efficient than the pulse-pushed pendulum.  The pulse-pushed pendulum by itself is already overunity.  This improved 2 stage pendulum must be overunity also.  The resulting COP will be better.
 
That is the entire logic, physics and mathematics principle behind the Mikovic 2 stage Pendulum.  It is not a hoax.  It can be and has been replicated multiple times.  I do not replicate it myself because I already know that the pulsed oscillation can be changed to pulsed rotation for higher efficiency.  I already know that the less than USD10 FLEET can have COP >>100.
 
I still like the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum because it is a direct confirmation of the Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory.  We used the single pulse-push pendulum for analysis.  We proved the existence of overunity.  We do not need to build our own prototype.  Milkovic has build many excellent prototypes independently aready.  (Note: the mathematics can be further improved.)
 
Milkovic is already a Server of the Divine Wine.  God Bless.   
 
Lawrence Tseung
A humble Server of the Divine Wine
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 26, 2012, 01:34:24 AM
See the attached spreadsheet for details.
 
This second draft spreadsheet takes into account the comments from another physicist.  The comment was - consider just the centripetal force.  This "freebee" force is at least equal to 74 pounds.  What a Divine Revelation.  The Milkovic pendulum has been replicated successfully many times.  Here is the theory and vigorous mathematics to back it up.
 
Divine Wine is tasty.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 26, 2012, 11:50:05 AM
How can we improve the Milkovic 2 stage Pendulum?
 
One simple improvement is to replace the swinging pendulum on the LHS with an unbalanced wheel.
 
With the pendulum, the rate of lead-out energy production is dependent on the period of oscillation of the pendulum.  That is determined by the length of the pendulum string.
 
With unbalanced wheel, we can control the rate of rotation.  The size of the device can be reduced.
 
The next improvement is to change the simple weight up and down movement with a shaft rotation.  Another wheel can be turned with increased torque and energy.
 
From the outside and viewed from the uninformed, we seem to rotate one wheel and gained more torque and energy from another wheel.  They will say that it is not possible.  Some will again use the argument of violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy.  Some may say that if the mechanism is this simple, people must have discovered it long ago.  Some may challenge me to build it.
 
From the Lead-out energy theory, such an improved device is logical and scientific.  The result is guaranteed.  Are there any good engineers out there???
 
The Divine Wine will be served by many.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 26, 2012, 05:17:07 PM
The self-looped Milkovic 2 stage Pendulum inspired design.

Note that the rotational rate of the unbalanced wheel on the RHS can be the same as the shaft driven wheel on the LHS as discussed in my last post.

This means a simple belt or chained connection between the two wheels may be sufficient for the loop-back.  When we start the rotation by spinning the unbalanced wheel to a certain rpm, the feedback mechanism can take over.  If properly designed with little frictional loss, there will be additional energy available to generate electricity or do other useful work.  Gravitational energy will be continuously led-out or brought-in.

Simple construction!  Are there any good engineers willing to take on the challenge???

If leading-out gravitational energy is possible, leading-out magnetic energy MUST be possible.  Lead-out or Bring-in Energy Machines are theoretically and practically sound.  Amen.

Who wants to question the Divine Revelations?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 30, 2012, 07:30:52 PM
here is the latest info from veljkomilkovic.com:



Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
VEMIRC Pendulum Lab - e-Newsletter March 30, 2012 - News & Updates
 
Research Progress Report: Scientific Paper
 
 
Physics of the Pendulum-Lever Energy System: A Summary of Knowledge
 
Recommendations for Construction and Efficiency Measuring of the Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator
by Jovan Marjanovic, M.Sc. in Electrical Engineering
 
The goal of this work is to summarize the findings from previous papers along with some additional comments and also to answer two basic questions:

- How to construct an efficient Veljko Milkovic two stage oscillator
- How to measure the quotient of efficiency of the constructed oscillator.

The goal of this paper is to explain all the facts about construction and measuring in order to facilitate other people’s efforts towards a replication embodying a high efficiency quotient.
 
Key words: pendulum, pivot point, over unity, energy, centrifugal force.
 
Download link 1 (292KB):
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf

Download link 2 (292KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on April 05, 2012, 02:21:59 PM
I had to admit that I did not read the 133 pages of this thread.  I thought the Physics and Mathematics was worked out since 2004 when Lee Cheung Kin and I published the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory.
 
I shall summarize the understanding of the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum and why it is an efficient overunity device here again.
 
1.       When we pulse-push a pendulum, we lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.  For a simple horizontal push, we can use 2 parts of horizontal energy to lead-out 1 part of gravitational energy.  I am attaching the xls file for those who want to see the equations.
2.       The best pulse-push is actually tangential.  The COP will even be higher compared with 1.5 in point 1.
3.       When we consider the two stages: pendulum as one stage and lever as another stage, we can see that there is another mechanism leading-out gravitational energy.  This mechanism is most evident in the video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8)
4.       Note that the pendulum bob weight (46 pounds) is not enough to lift the Weight on the LHS (74 pounds).  The additional mechanism is the centrifugal force due to circular motion.  The centrifugal force is highest when the velocity is highest.  This occurs when the pendulum bob is at the lowest position.
5.       Now the centrifugal force plus the pendulum bob weight can be slightly more than 74 pounds and thus the LHS weight is lifted.  Work is done.  Note that the pendulum continues to swing with a lower velocity.  The centrifugal force will then be less.  The 74 pound weight will fall back with a much less opposing force.  This effectively is another mechanism of leading-out gravitational force.
6.       To repeat, we are using a 46 pound weight (Wp) plus a varying centrifugal force (Fc) to lift a 74 pound weight Wg.  The centrifugal force is a “freebee” due to the oscillation motion of the pendulum. This “freebee” force helped to lift the weight Wg.  We can assume that this “freebee” force is at least equal to 28 (74-46) pounds.
7.       To summarize, the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum has TWO mechanisms to lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.  Thus it is more efficient than the pulse-pushed pendulum.  The pulse-pushed pendulum by itself is already overunity.  This improved 2 stage pendulum must be overunity also.  The resulting COP will be better.
 
That is the entire logic, physics and mathematics principle behind the Mikovic 2 stage Pendulum.  It is not a hoax.  It can be and has been replicated multiple times.  I do not replicate it myself because I already know that the pulsed oscillation can be changed to pulsed rotation for higher efficiency.  I already know that the less than USD10 FLEET can have COP >>100.
 
I still like the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum because it is a direct confirmation of the Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory.  We used the single pulse-push pendulum for analysis.  We proved the existence of overunity.  We do not need to build our own prototype.  Milkovic has build many excellent prototypes independently aready.  (Note: the mathematics can be further improved.)
 
Milkovic is already a Server of the Divine Wine.  God Bless.   
 
Lawrence Tseung
A humble Server of the Divine Wine

Head really done very good job with  video6 and video7. Only, my suggestion are to do some minor technical improvements, such as ceramic bearings. Then, to add sensors for measurement of inputs and outputs, and if possible to make a slow motion. I think it is better to be simple mechanism, and then we can get more accurate result. Although, we already sow from the research.

All the best! :)
Title: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on April 08, 2012, 07:11:11 PM
 
May  Easter be blessed with health, longevity, love and a lot of happiness! Have a very happy Easter, this Divine holyday, the miracle of miracles! I hope that we will have new videos by Head, Ron, Andrea also all others are welcome.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on April 08, 2012, 08:50:43 PM
@Itseung888. You ask who wants to question the Divine Revelations. Th answer is that I do . I have already proven, by a simple repeatable method, that the 2SO is not overunity . Read my post 57 on this thread and do the experiment yourself.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 09, 2012, 09:56:28 AM
@Itseung888. You ask who wants to question the Divine Revelations. Th answer is that I do . I have already proven, by a simple repeatable method, that the 2SO is not overunity . Read my post 57 on this thread and do the experiment yourself.

Dear neptune,
 
I read post 57 but that post was not in your name.  Please advise.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on April 09, 2012, 02:05:53 PM
@Itseung888. Sorry, my foolish mistake. Please read my reply number1802 on page 121. This describes a very simple cheap easy way to test the 2SO. If , by using my method you can show that output is greater than input, then I will believe the 2SO is overunity. I tried for two months with various configurations, but no luck . If you can do it , the world will beat a path to your door. Good luck, Ken
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 09, 2012, 05:02:20 PM
The 2SO has now been around for about 10 years ., There have been various mathematical "proofs " of OU , but the best one I have seen is by Jovan Marjanovic . The particular example he examined turned out to be 3.25 times OU .I personally think that Raymond Head is struggling a bit because he has chosen the electrical route to OU rather than the mechanical .
    I have designed an experiment which I hope to work on , which will easily prove OU or otherwise .Imagine a classic 2SO . At the opposite end of the lever to the pendulum is a weight .This weight is mounted on a horizontal arm , like a horizontal pendulum . The weight just sits on top of the lever . The arm has a ratchet , so the weight , when lifted , does not fall .During the test , the pendulum is allowed only one swing , from left to right . It starts in a horizontal position . At the end of its swing , it is caught by a ratchet . The beam is just heavy enough at the left side to return it to its horizontal start position at the end of the test .During the swing of the main pendulum , the counterweight will rise , and stay up due to the ratchet . The main pendulum will stop on its ratchet at a point lower than the start point . Measure how much lower . Suppose it is 2 inches lower . And say it weighs one pound . So input energy was two inch-pounds . We can measure the output by weighing the counter weight , and measuring its rise . The same equipment and tests can be used to optimise various parameters , such as how far the main pendulum pivot is allowed to fall during the swing . So for example we find that with 2 inch pounds of input we get 4 inch pounds of output , this will prove beyond any possible doubt that the 2SO is overunity . Better than all the theories on earth . If someone beats me to it on this , and gets it on youtube , Please mention my name . Regards , Ken Hardy .


Dear Neptune,
 
I believe that your design is very different from the Milkovic 2 Stage Pendulum.  It would not give the 2SO justice.
 
The 2SO works on two mechanisms:
1.     The Pulse-pushed pendulum.  This by itself is already an overunity mechanism.  I attaché Divine Revelation 2.xls again for your information.
2.    The Weight lifting by Centripetal Force mechanism.   If you look at video 6, the 40 pound pendulum cannot lift the 70 pound weight (rough numbers) when stationary.  I assume the lever arms are the same.   However, when the pendulum swings, there will be circular motion and Centripetal Force will take over.  The formula for Centripetal Force is m*v*v/r  where m is the mass of the pendulum, v is the velocity and r is the radius.
Let us examine the swinging of the pendulum from the stationary position.  Initially, the weight of the pendulum will not be able to lift the weight on the LHS.  When the pendulum begins to swing and when the amplitude is small, the Centripetal Force is still not sufficient to lift the weight.  However, when the amplitude increases to a certain value, the highest velocity at the lowest swinging position will be high enough. (remember the m*v*v/r formula).
The Centripetal Force will be large enough to lift the weight.  But then the velocity of the swinging pendulum will decrease, the weight will then drop back (and capable of doing work).  Note that the natural swinging motion of the pendulum is hardly affected.  The original position of the pendulum is restored.  The required pulse-push is to maintain the pendulum swing due to some frictional losses.
 
Please understand these two mechanisms and how both can lead-out gravitational energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on April 10, 2012, 09:29:47 PM
I do not believe that my experiment is different from the 2SO . The only way that it is different , is that, after one swing, the pendulum is stopped by being caught on a ratchet, and the counterweight is prevented from falling. Then measurements can be taken. There are 2 reasons why we stop the counterweight from falling
1. If we lift a weight we expend energy, but if we allow the weight to fall, we have lost the potential energy we gained and the net output is zero.
2. I have proven that by correct phasing, the up and down movement of the beam CAN give back energy to the pendulum .
    My belief is that if the 2SO is overunity, it will show OU on just one swing of the pendulum. However, if you believe that a left-to-right swing is somehow different to a Right-to-left swing, let us do one of each, stopping the pendulum and counterweight after each swing and adding the results together . The 2SO is either OU or it is not. There can be no excuse for not trying this for yourself . I did it with a zero budget, using parts found in rubbish skips. I used to think that the reason nobody could make a self runner was due to phasing problems. The real reason is that there is no OU in this device. Until you actually try my experiment you are fooling yourself. With Respect, Ken.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on April 11, 2012, 02:23:43 AM
@ neptune,
 I do not feel you have done any experiments to verify your conclusions, let alone mine. My swing 5 project shows 23* power, but yet I have not seen one video from you to verify your talk. Show me , don't tell me.
 Sick of ur bs,
 Greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 11, 2012, 03:01:23 AM
I do not believe that my experiment is different from the 2SO . The only way that it is different , is that, after one swing, the pendulum is stopped by being caught on a ratchet, and the counterweight is prevented from falling. Then measurements can be taken. There are 2 reasons why we stop the counterweight from falling
1. If we lift a weight we expend energy, but if we allow the weight to fall, we have lost the potential energy we gained and the net output is zero.
2. I have proven that by correct phasing, the up and down movement of the beam CAN give back energy to the pendulum .
    My belief is that if the 2SO is overunity, it will show OU on just one swing of the pendulum. However, if you believe that a left-to-right swing is somehow different to a Right-to-left swing, let us do one of each, stopping the pendulum and counterweight after each swing and adding the results together . The 2SO is either OU or it is not. There can be no excuse for not trying this for yourself . I did it with a zero budget, using parts found in rubbish skips. I used to think that the reason nobody could make a self runner was due to phasing problems. The real reason is that there is no OU in this device. Until you actually try my experiment you are fooling yourself. With Respect, Ken.

You have to make sure that the centripetal force (m*v*v/r) is large enough to lift the weight on the LHS.  Also you need to make sure the weight on the LHS can restore the pendulum to the initial condition (usually not a problem) before you can detect OU effect.
 
Please read the calculations in the attached file again.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 11, 2012, 07:28:19 AM
still no successful looping of the device???
 
hmm......
 
the escapement was invented 1200 yrs ago,.. weve already posted its design and function...
there are tens of dozens of double-action-pendulum creations from the posters here....
NONE of you guys can build a mock-clockwork piece and try to perpetuate this thing??
 
 
There have been other reasonable proposals, including storage of the energy by various mechanical mechanisms, or direct-coupled transfer from the verticle to the oscillatory system.
Have any of these been attempted??
 
this thing is supposed to be 12x??  all we need is 1x
you can throw the other 11 away if you want to....
just loop one of those x's back to the pendulum and we're done.
problem solved. save the world, blah blah..
 
Why hasnt this been accomplished ?
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on April 11, 2012, 12:55:45 PM
@Gdez. First of all , no progress will be achieved by accusing other members of BS. I am a gentleman, and treat others with respect.  Why can you not do the same? OK, yes I have done the experiments described. I have shown no videos because I do not have a suitable camera . If I had achieved OU I would have borrowed a camera , but what is the point if the result is negative. All I seek is the truth . Why don`t you show me? For the first time I have shown a simple cheap way that anyone can use to prove it one way or another . It is interesting to note that in his latest paper, Marjanovic [Milkovich`s mathematics man] proposes a similar test method to mine. We both seem to have thought of it around the same time. So, no more name calling, lets just find the truth.,
@sm0ky2. I could and would build a feed back device , but until I can prove that it is OU, what would be the point.
        Please do not attack me for treading on your cherished beliefs. Let us discover the truth, one way or another. If it is 2x OU or more , either loop it, or use my method to prove it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 11, 2012, 03:31:03 PM
from YT: The Scale Going Crazy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d9wu0lFKL8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 14, 2012, 08:05:52 PM
VAWT 6 blads 55 gallon drums? by R. Head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swrvprtDrAg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 14, 2012, 09:06:24 PM
Quote

@sm0ky2. I could and would build a feed back device , but until I can prove that it is OU, what would be the point.
       

I believe that IS the point.  If you built a feedback system and looped this thing, that in and of itself would "prove" overunity. Thats the only solution to end this madness, look how much has been posted since this mess started.
 
When, if you go back, myself and several other engineers presented mathematically where all of the energy is going to, during each stage of the oscillations, shortly after this nonsense began. Proving mathematically, that this system is not OU. But rather, a very efficient method of transfering mechanical energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: neptune on April 14, 2012, 10:09:14 PM
@sm0ky2. We have both proved that the 2so is not overunity. You used mathematics, and I used real world experiments. This is my reasoning. If it is OU, then the OU will show itself during each cycle of operation. What is one cycle? well that depends on if the device behaves the same as the pendulum moves left-to-right, as it does when the movement is right to left. To be safe, let us assume that it behaves differently, so we need to do 2 tests, one in each case, and add the results together. Test procedure. Start the pendulum from horizontal. Then measure its hight when it stops at the other side. We now know how much height the pendulum lost during its swing. We now know the input energy. weight of pendulum x distance it fell . When the counterweight at the other end of the beam rises, we prevent it from falling with a ratchet. So output = weight of counterweight x distance it is lifted. If output is greater then input, we have OU. If it does not pass this test, it is not OU. All the mathematical calculations in the universe is not going to change that. Show me a machine that passes this test, and I will guarantee to loop it.[Terms and conditions apply, OU must be 3 or greater. ]
    Simples!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 16, 2012, 12:06:02 AM
So, after all these papers and not a Joule of OU, when do we smal a "busted" sign on this, and strip some central Europeans of their titles?


I cannot for the life of me understand why they keep putting energy into this. Anti-OU propaganga? Not a really worthy field of OU science to address, and not particularly well done. If I'd be paid well enough (and had no soul to sell), I would confuse (read: convince) readers better.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 22, 2012, 04:31:15 AM
from MagnaMoRo YouTube

Some Measurements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRrtJg6dkSo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on May 03, 2012, 05:42:15 PM
 :) I want to hear, new - optimistic opinion! Anyone?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 03, 2012, 10:40:17 PM
See
 
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=811.msg23226;topicseen#msg23226 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=811.msg23226;topicseen#msg23226)
 
The blind scientist from Peru produced the "Force Magnifier" using purely mechanical means.  It uses two sets of crankshaft wheels on an oscillating lever with belts connecting the wheels.  It claims a 1 horse power input can deliver 17 horse power output.
 
The theory, calculations and comparisons are outlined in the above link.  He actually led-out gravitational energy via such a device.
 
He won a national prize in Peru and a Bronze Medal in Europe.  We are improving his device.
 
God Bless us on Divine Revelation 2.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 05, 2012, 12:29:16 AM
Two possible designs that are better than the Milkovic and the Peru device?
 
The theory is still lead-out energy via pulsed oscillation or unbalanced rotation.  The LHS reinforces the RHS and vice versa.
 
Is Divine Revelation 2 this simple?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 07, 2012, 02:09:18 AM
from YouTube - user: gdez1000

New diaphram pump with (tsmo) pendulum

improved design for experiments with pumping water. More vids coming soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zVtK1W3yl4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zVtK1W3yl4)

 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 07, 2012, 02:13:24 PM
Is Divine Revelation 2 this simple?
That's a complicated way to mimic a standard balanced flywheel.
+ and -  cancel each other to = .
A loose timing band will only allow the weights to settle slightly below the averages of their axles.

There is no lead-out, whatever mystic fysics you mean with that word.
Any pulsing will be returned reduced by the heat losses from the loose band.
 
Build it, it takes a few pieces of wood. The wheels can subsituted to pieces of wood with an additional piece at 90º as weight.
Simple (bike) sprockets on bearings and a chain. First balance out without the off-balance weights.
 
I'm sure that if you attach an engine to it, you can dramatically point at it spinning. It will selfdestroy at sufficient rpm, but that's all a result of kinetic energy introduced by the engine.

Even Rhead seems to have refocussed his construction talents on more probable project using true free energy: wind and solar.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 07, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
That's a complicated way to mimic a standard balanced flywheel.
+ and -  cancel each other to = .
A loose timing band will only allow the weights to settle slightly below the averages of their axles.

There is no lead-out, whatever mystic fysics you mean with that word.
Any pulsing will be returned reduced by the heat losses from the loose band.
 
Build it, it takes a few pieces of wood. The wheels can subsituted to pieces of wood with an additional piece at 90º as weight.
Simple (bike) sprockets on bearings and a chain. First balance out without the off-balance weights.
 
I'm sure that if you attach an engine to it, you can dramatically point at it spinning. It will selfdestroy at sufficient rpm, but that's all a result of kinetic energy introduced by the engine.

Even Rhead seems to have refocussed his construction talents on more probable project using true free energy: wind and solar.

The Peru Force Magnifier did not selfdestroy.  A 1 Horse Power engine can drive a 17 Horse Power load.  Please understand the real Physics and how gravitational energy is led-out or brought-in.
 
The device will be built by real engineers.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on May 07, 2012, 08:37:12 PM

The Peru Force Magnifier did not selfdestroy.  A 1 Horse Power engine can drive a 17 Horse Power load.  Please understand the real Physics and how gravitational energy is led-out or brought-in.
 
The device will be built by real engineers.

  If it delivers 17X the power, it most likely would be in use. It might be a variation of using gyro's which power Segways and those are well proven. A little tilt and you are off and running. Yet they are not used for power generation. Why ?
 I think that is what is important. Not what can be done on a small scale but on something that can generate megawatts. If a free energy
device is not capable of that small feat, then it is interesting.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on May 07, 2012, 08:42:26 PM

I believe that IS the point.  If you built a feedback system and looped this thing, that in and of itself would "prove" overunity. Thats the only solution to end this madness, look how much has been posted since this mess started.
 
When, if you go back, myself and several other engineers presented mathematically where all of the energy is going to, during each stage of the oscillations, shortly after this nonsense began. Proving mathematically, that this system is not OU. But rather, a very efficient method of transfering mechanical energy.

  sm0ky2,
 I have posted an expalnation of a feed back loop system. For some reason a plausible explanation is ignored.
Is basic leverage that difficult to understand ? Any more, I will have to belive this is so. If it were something complex,
then everyone would be up on it. If the weight is supported by a lever when it is at the 4 position, it's weight would not be on the pendulum centered at the 10 position.
 This would give the counter weight at the opposing 10 position 2 1/2 times the force. Easy enough to leverage the pendulum's weight a little higher than necessary to maintain it's swing.
 Sorry, but do need to wonder what you guys are on about for all of these pages.
.(http://www.overunity.com/12247/pendulum-shift/dlattach/attach/98698/image//) (http://www.overunity.com/12247/pendulum-shift/dlattach/attach/98698/image//))
 
edited to add; as he posts his patents, could be just as the people in here, if he can't claim the improvement as his own, not interested.
he could be more into self promotion. I did send him Tom's (webby1) idea and heard nothing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on May 08, 2012, 04:45:49 PM
A loose timing band will only allow the weights to settle slightly below the averages of their axles.
True but beside the point. It provides impulses - banging, if you would.
viz Chas Campbell etc.

Do you remember how undoing a very stiff nut on a thread is difficult until
you put a spanner on it, and tap the spanner with a hammer. Suddenly,
the nut sails off. (The school Physics explanation is as convincing as the
domain theory of magnetism).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 10, 2012, 03:35:31 PM
bedini powered milkovic cap run test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9djnFyzczW0 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D9djnFyzczW0&ct=ga&cad=CAkQARgAIAYoATAAOABAr_as_QRIAVgAYgJlbg&cd=xJSFm9W5xic&usg=AFQjCNGxSrb9yar5p6kY4aKuBChMsMxLsw)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 11, 2012, 09:16:09 PM
See
 
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=811.msg23226;topicseen#msg23226 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=811.msg23226;topicseen#msg23226)
 
The blind scientist from Peru produced the "Force Magnifier" using purely mechanical means.  It uses two sets of crankshaft wheels on an oscillating lever with belts connecting the wheels.  It claims a 1 horse power input can deliver 17 horse power output.
 
The theory, calculations and comparisons are outlined in the above link.  He actually led-out gravitational energy via such a device.
 
He won a national prize in Peru and a Bronze Medal in Europe.  We are improving his device.
 
God Bless us on Divine Revelation 2.


It seems it is similar to the Veljko Milkovic's patent from 2003:

Hammer with an electro motor drive and rotating eccentric masses - YU 545 MP - MP-122/02


Abstract

A hammer driven by an electromotor with eccentric rotating masses, consists of the base (2) to which are attached: anvil (4), stand (20) to which is attached electromotor (17), stand (3) for the hammer with shaft (7) around which the rod (6) keeps rocking, and stand (1) of the chain with shaft (14) around which two-armed lever (9) is rocking. Above anvil (4) is mounted the head of the hammer (5) attached to the handle (6) while the opposite end of handle (6) is connected to lever (9) through the use of connecting plates (8. On both sides of lever (9) are mounted two pairs of eccentric masses (10) with shafts (11). One mass on each side has grooves around its circumference. Shaft (14) has bearing (13) and it serves to attach a wheel (15) which drives chain (16). Wheel (15) is firmly attached to shaft (18) of electromotor (17) by a forked coupling (19). Wheel (15) and eccentric masses (10) are connected by chain (16), where eccentric masses (10) are turned in such a way that the center of their masses are on the opposite sides of the lever (9) i.e. they are shifted for 180 degrees. On the two-armed lever (9) are also mounted idlers (12) which serve to control chain (16).

Full patent document
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Veljko_Milkovic's_patent_Hammer_with_an_electro_motor_drive_and_rotating_eccentric_masses.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Veljko_Milkovic%27s_patent_Hammer_with_an_electro_motor_drive_and_rotating_eccentric_masses.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 14, 2012, 04:08:42 AM
from MagnaMoRo YouTube...

Overunity is Here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vch0p2VlDY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 14, 2012, 09:45:04 PM
Let me guess. The funny hammer in calculations is always taken for its mass when taken off the device, not the weight actually shifted? Look at the pivot, most o the hammer's mass is supported. As in the 2SO, lifting a counterweight that was like the one kid out of 2 on the seesaw. Easy to make miscalculation and yell OU. Look, I can lift this healthy child with only the strength of my pinky finger!
Interesting math in your neck of the woods. Wish it were so easy to become a hero in my part, where results are more important than presentation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on May 16, 2012, 09:25:40 PM
Let me guess. The funny hammer in calculations is always taken for its mass when taken off the device, not the weight actually shifted? Look at the pivot, most o the hammer's mass is supported. As in the 2SO, lifting a counterweight that was like the one kid out of 2 on the seesaw. Easy to make miscalculation and yell OU. Look, I can lift this healthy child with only the strength of my pinky finger!
Interesting math in your neck of the woods. Wish it were so easy to become a hero in my part, where results are more important than presentation.

   Jan,
 Nothing personal but I think he was having a little fun with it.
                                                                         Jim
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 29, 2012, 03:04:17 PM
For the Overunity Skeptics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UBqYY7IDXc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UBqYY7IDXc)

by MagnaMoRo YouTube


 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on May 29, 2012, 03:31:28 PM
For the Overunity Skeptics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UBqYY7IDXc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UBqYY7IDXc)

by MagnaMoRo YouTube

Merg

Is there an effect that can be used? Yes, I have played with it and shown in one of my 4 years old test on youtube. But MagnaMoRo is cranking the weighted wheel so the effects we see are supplied by his physical input. Take a 5lb weight on a rope and swing it around in a orbit above your head. If you do not counter the weight in the swing? You will be pulled from your position. But you would still be the one supplying the energy into the swinging.  IMHO He has a long way to go to understand this effect.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 29, 2012, 06:21:53 PM
IMHO He has a long way to go to understand this effect.

LOL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gravityassisted on May 31, 2012, 10:58:11 AM
Hello All,

Topic sounds tempting, and i really decided to make a prototype of Milkovic's Two stage oscilator.

I found 1kw Low Speed PMG ( 20rpm ) last week, and trying to find solution to transform lever oscilation to rotational motion.

Very much hope u have many suggestions...


Many thanks and great regard to ltseung888 for his  .xls calculations


"Divine wine is tasty"


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 01, 2012, 05:20:31 PM
I found 1kw Low Speed PMG ( 20rpm ) last week, and trying to find solution to transform lever oscillation to rotational motion.

How about the traditional piston and crank solution?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 03, 2012, 06:17:55 PM
Going to a full rotation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_TTPNW_ITA

by babarlizia (YouTube)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gravityassisted on June 05, 2012, 12:14:48 AM


Thank you very much gentlemen

I wasn't introduced with this experiments earlier...


I' ll appreciate all your constructive suggestions

keep in touch...

"Together we will succeed"
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on June 10, 2012, 05:41:28 PM

Thank you very much gentlemen

I wasn't introduced with this experiments earlier...


I' ll appreciate all your constructive suggestions

keep in touch...

"Together we will succeed"

I like positive suggestion and good collaboration.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 27, 2012, 07:47:38 PM
Water powered pendulum - producing hydrogen and electricity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64EDo4OB_L0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64EDo4OB_L0)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 30, 2012, 03:15:50 AM
Milkovic pendulum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHBQoh1C7r4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHBQoh1C7r4)

Pendulum pump 360 degree rotation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tl0pZc6MQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tl0pZc6MQ)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 17, 2012, 03:50:18 AM
The World of Pendulum Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Do_dTI_Ow
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 23, 2012, 08:52:34 PM
Gravity Driven Mechanism - Designed and Built by Emile L. Cole - Seattle Washington
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7CEwnOFnCk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7CEwnOFnCk&feature=g-all-f)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: avalon on July 23, 2012, 09:07:47 PM
Gravity Driven Mechanism - Designed and Built by Emile L. Cole - Seattle Washington
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7CEwnOFnCk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7CEwnOFnCk&feature=g-all-f)
Nice one! I love it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: johnny874 on August 03, 2012, 03:44:01 PM
Nice one! I love it.

  this is how Milkovic's pendulum could be made perpetual.
 B needs to be further from a than C. This would allow it to lift the pendulum's weight higher.
The weight would be lifted at it's center of gravity and this would allow it's force relative to
the counter weight to be calculated from the distance from A.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: juan_86 on September 15, 2012, 09:04:17 PM
I must ask. Has anyone proved this concept?  I mean like in calculation and simulation, setup proper variable and take measurement like scientist does. Not to insult anyone, just want to know.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: markusbraunfe on September 15, 2012, 11:40:59 PM
Hi,
we constructed several two stage oscillators by following the recommendations on the Milkovic page:
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf
like using a lever relation of 3.5 : 1  , low vertical pivot displacement ( < 3-5%) , stiff beam, low friction bearings etc.

Currently our measurements do not show any overunity effect.

The best we achieved was perhaps an efficiency of around 90%.
We tested with several rod lengths ranging from 20cm to 1m weights 5-15kg.
We tried to keep the system simple and used two  ratchets with roller chains connected to the beam to extract the energy.
We made several tests by extracting the energy in both directions or only in one (downward or upward movement).
The energy extraction consisted in lifting a weight and measure the distance traveled vertically.
At the same time we measured the vertical height which the center of mass of the pendulum loses during each oscillation.

As soon as you extract energy from the system the pendulum loses energy and loses significant height after each oscillation.
We tried using large oscillation amplitudes (90 degrees) up to smaller (45 degrees).
And in any case the Efficiency was less than 100%, sometimes as bad as 50%.

Until we are missing something, we are less and less convinced that the double stage oscillator produces any overunity effect.
Unfortinately Milkovic did not do such measurements like lifting a weight with a ratchet.
He has some videos where he pumps water up, or lights up some flashlights but no measurement that proves that the system is overunity.

While we believe that there could be a possibility that the centrifugal force might produce free energy, perhaps the two stage oscillator has too low speed to clearly show the effect and it is very hard to tune the system and probably it is not practical to produce useful energy.
For example if you want to produce 3kW for your home and you have to build a pendulum which weighs several tons then it is not going to be a cheap energy source since the construction of such a large metallic structure would be expensive.

We are aware that i_ron measured a COP of 150% in his solenoid activated pendulum, but as far as we know he has not extracted the energy by using a ratchet or a generator but used the pendulum in hammer mode. And perhaps the hammer mode gives back much of the energy to the pendulum without doing "useful" work which could turn a generator or lift a weight.

We have some videos and data but we will not publish them yet because we want to perform more precise measurements.
But our hopes to discover OU with the two stage oscillator are not very big anymore.

Unless someone has the secret sauce and tells us how to tune the system by some magical "mechanical resonance" and other effects we cannot achieve.

Again, we are surprised that Milkovic and his team did not use a simple ratchet (for example a bicycle sprocket and a chain) and lifted a weight on the left side of the beam to measure how much the weight goes up during each oscillation and how much height the pendulum bob loses.
It does not require any machining or high tech equipement, but it is effective to measure the real energy that can be extracted.

We did not try to constantly push the pendulum because in theory at least at some amplitude the pendulum should be overunity in order to produce excess energy, otherwise it makes no sense to push the pendulum again. By constantly pushing it you just replenish the energy lost in the pendulum (vertical height).
We could try to push the pendulum by using a solenoid or some motorized lever and then measure the energy spent and compare it with the output work (weight lifted by the ratchet), but we believe it would probably lead to the same results.
Another test would be to let the pendulum do 360 degree rotation and extract the energy by the same method as I mentioned above.
Perhaps in this case the centrifugal force being much bigger would be more likely to show any overunity effect if there is one.
So far we are not aware of anyone having done measurements letting the pendulum rotate 360 degrees at costant speed.

We will keep you up to date as soon we will have more data from our measurements.

best regards,
Markus
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: juan_86 on September 16, 2012, 01:21:54 PM
I try simulate with working model 2D and it show overunity clearly. Real model has a many loss. Can i see the lifting weight setup?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: markusbraunfe on September 16, 2012, 05:43:02 PM
I try simulate with working model 2D and it show overunity clearly. Real model has a many loss. Can i see the lifting weight setup?

To juan_86 and others that try to "measure" the two stage oscillator by using 2D physics simulation software:

I think the approach is completely flawed, because those programs only act by the standard laws of physics (newton), so of course no overunity
effect will show up.

Moreover, we live in a real world where at least some small friction is always present. So in order to extract useful energy, the system must overcome
this friction. So the only way to demonstrate clearly whether there is a real, practical overunity effect, is to build a real model of the machine and measure the outcome.
I find it hilarious that so many people still use physics simulation software and try to demonstrate if some machines (gravity wheels, etc)  show an overunity effect.
Of course it is easier and cheaper (basically free) to simulate those machines by using simulation software rather than building the real model.
But in case of overunity machines, we are  outside the conventional physics domain, and unfortunately classical-physics simulation software will miserably fail.
So start build your models and measure the data. The nature will not lie. Often small models will suffice because many processes in nature are repeatable at a smaller scale. If there is a gravity wheel design that works, then probably it works regardless whether it is 20cm  or 10metres in diameter.
The forces will of course be bigger but the effect should be reproducible on small scales models too.

Of course there are some exceptions, for example critical mass for atomic reactions etc, but I don't believe that overunity devices that do use gravity, inertia or centrifugal forces do have this critical mass (or size) requirements.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 01, 2012, 05:17:24 PM
Two stage mech osc 360. by gdez1000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc6VT2XPTuA

Helping the Free Energy Movement
by MagnaMoRo
A response to the device built by gdez1000.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq6mXxEQJpc

Title: The Cole Mechanism - A solution to "The Milkovic Problem"
Post by: Aemilius on October 07, 2012, 06:48:04 PM
Hello everyone, thanks for the mention earlier Merg....

It seems this Milkovic fellow and I have been reading the same book.... but we ended up on very different pages. Comments and discussion welcome.... Discussion already under way at http://scienceforums.com/topic/26247-gravity-driven-mechanisms/.... Uninterupted analysis and video at http://thecolemechanism.blogspot.com/.... Analysis will continue as new ideas are formed and new parts are fitted.... Emile
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 10, 2012, 12:54:31 AM
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
e-mail Newsletter - October 09, 2012 - News



1. Conclusion of Serbian Academy of Inventors and Scientists on the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic

Commission members of the Serbian Academy of Inventors and Scientists - SAIN: Dr. Rato Ninkovic (president), Zvonko Jankovic (member) and Mato Zubac (member), on the basis of the submitted documentation and following a successful demonstration of the device in the Veljko Milkovic Research and Development Center and a successful public presentation at a special Academy assembly at the Chamber of Commerce of Vojvodina (Novi Sad, Serbia), on July 11, 2012, reached a conclusion that the paper “Analysis and Opinion on the Two-Stage Oscillator by Veljko Milkovic” by Prof. Tosic Bratislav, PhD, and the hypothesis that the oscillations are more efficient than rotation and therefore the possible invention, currently when used in stationary machines (pumps, compressors, power generators, etc.), is more important than the wheel, can be fully acknowledged.

Conclusion of SAIN Academy
 
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Conclusion_Serbian_Academy_of_Inventors_and_Scientists_Veljko_Milkovic.pdf (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Conclusion_Serbian_Academy_of_Inventors_and_Scientists_Veljko_Milkovic.pdf)
 
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center and academician Veljko Milkovic himself are open to further questioning and calling on all institutions and individuals to consider the exposed thesis and potential implementation of oscillations in other areas of science and technology.
 
   
2. Video: The World of Pendulum Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Do_dTI_Ow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Do_dTI_Ow)   
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Aemilius on October 11, 2012, 02:34:07 AM
Commission members of the Serbian Academy of Inventors and Scientists “....the oscillations are more efficient than rotation and therefore the possible invention, currently when used in stationary machines (pumps, compressors, power generators, etc.), is more important than the wheel, can be fully acknowledged."

Well, that may be an accurate statement in a narrow sense as far as the Milkovic arrangement is concerned, but to generate real power you've got to have speed. The elepahant in the room here is that the Milkovic arrangement is inherently slow.... in other words it's limited to a working speed that corresponds to the natural periodicity of the pendulum being employed. Another problem with it is that as it's sized up its motion will become even more slow and lumbering. My machine has no such restrictions.... it can go from a dead stop to rotating at 100 rotations per minute after just five or six well timed repetitions of a relatively small (3 to 5 degrees) back and forth imbalancing action performed on the Control Lever.   

"Video: The World of Pendulum Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Do_dTI_Ow"


I watched the video.... Computer animations are always a red flag for me as a builder, there are millions of "working Bessler Wheel" animations and we all know how that turned out. The video actually helps prove my point though.... the first generator shown with the swinging pendulum clearly moves too slowly to generate any kind of useful voltage or current, and the next one shown, the one with the "hammer" swinging around 360 degrees also obviously moves too slowly to be considered as a practical machine when it come to power generation. None of the arrangements shown can be either speeded up or sized up which is a brick wall across the road to viability. The sized up pendulum in the oil pumping arrangement amply illustrates how the motion becomes even slower and more lumbering when attempting to size up the arrangement. The pump application seems plausible enough, since speed is not a factor in the aplication.

Similarities between our machines....

1. Both the Milkovic Two-Stage Oscillator and The Cole Mechanism employ pendulous motion.

2. Both the Milkovic Two-Stage Oscillator and The Cole Mechanism require relatively little input of energy.

Differences between our machines....

1. The Milkovic Two-Stage Oscillator cannot be speeded up because it's limited to a working speed that corresponds to the natural periodicity of the pendulum being employed.... The Cole Mechanism can be speeded up because it isn't limited by the natural periodicity of the pendulum being employed.
 
2. The Milkovic Two-Stage Oscillator cannot be sized up without becoming slow and lumbering.... The Cole Mechanism can be sized up without losing the important element of speed that a practical machine needs to be effective.

There are other differences too, but I think those two are the most significant.... Emile
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cristache on October 11, 2012, 03:27:34 AM
@Aemilius

Did you make any calculations in regards to energy, initial/final in different stages of your mechanism?
Did these calculations show extra energy gained by the system?

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on October 11, 2012, 05:25:46 AM
This is a simulation of the idea I am working on in a prototype:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNPR2foT2J4

Notes on the subject:
  1) Energy input should be measured for each 1/2 cycle of the masses full rotation.
  2) Energy output should be measured over the amplitude of each direction change.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cristache on October 11, 2012, 05:30:38 AM
I saw that.
Can you calculate the lifting force based on motor torque and distance to the lifted weight?
That would explain the force being able to lift the weight.
Energy wise I don't see where the gain is.
I can lift 10kg by spending energy and by letting the weight go down from where I lifted it, I will get back that energy.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on October 11, 2012, 05:45:28 AM
I saw that.
Can you calculate the lifting force based on motor torque and distance to the lifted weight?
That would explain the force being able to lift the weight.
Energy wise I don't see where the gain is.
I can lift 10kg by spending energy and by letting the weight go down from where I lifted it, I will get back that energy.

This video has nothing to do with lifting. Maybe you need to look again.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cristache on October 11, 2012, 05:54:17 AM
Oh my bad!

It is easy for this to calculate.
You have the motor rpm and torque, you can calculate the power and energy spend per one rotation
On the weights side you have the friction forces and the distance traveled which multiplied gives the mechanical work.
Then you can compare the 2
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Aemilius on October 11, 2012, 07:28:25 AM
cristache "Did you make any calculations in regards to energy, initial/final in different stages of your mechanism?
Did these calculations show extra energy gained by the system?"


Not yet.... but I have a procedure.

There's one thing I can assure you of.... it will have nothing to do with flashlights! I'm going to great lengths now (and will be for some time to come) to illustrate stage by stage in that blog (http://thecolemechanism.blogspot.com/) exactly what's happening with my mechanism. Eventually blueprints will be included too. I can't imagine going to all that trouble and then somehow coming to the conclusion that resorting to the use flashlights was any kind of reliable standard of measurement.... I need hard data.
 
With reference to the developing ongoing analysis at the blog I think anyone can see that if a particular weight is assigned to a particular length of arrow, simple vector analysis is perfectly appropriate for calculating the values. Using this system, all the various forces coming to bear on all the various parts, degree by degree, separately or in combination, at any point around three hundred and sixty degrees can be foretold with a reasonable degree of certainty.... I'm working that out now.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Grk on November 15, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
Hi,
I came across very interesting thing on the site of Veljko Milkovic.
Firstly, I saw a verified document that states that oscillations are superior than rotation. http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Conclusion_Serbian_Academy_of_Inventors_and_Scientists_Veljko_Milkovic.pdf
 
And, another thing that catch my eye is Press with a pendulum and magnets, also called Magnetic-gravity hybrid because it combines gravity force, centrifugal force and magnets.  Device is the same size as Two-stage oscillator, but it has additional permanent magnets in pendulum. Makes large density of energy, and has a wide range for potential use (pumps, compressors, power generators, etc.).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 18, 2012, 06:36:39 PM
A new replica from Austria

Milkovic schaukel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLV33t63CqY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on November 26, 2012, 07:06:40 PM
Hello Merg,
about Milkovichaukelv, work in the output is present all the time, and touch in the input is shorter and without indications.
Rhythmical movement of the hand can not be counted as input, but just the touch that lasts less than one second.
OU is obvious, and I advice more quality model and video.

Thanks for sharing :-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 04, 2012, 01:30:55 AM
Examiner: The GP 210 pendulum water pump helps in crisis situations
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-gp-210-pendulum-water-pump-help-crisis-situations

Renew Economy: Pendulum pump could help ease third world water woes

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/pendulum-pump-could-help-ease-third-world-water-woes-78075
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mollieman on December 13, 2012, 09:55:43 PM
Let's try to keep the pendulum moving before we try to get energy out of this thing, how about a small( 500 watt) slow turning electric motor with a wheel on the output shaft conected to a pushrod that hits the pendulum at the apex of each stroke. This will keep the Pendulum in motion. On the hammer end of the beam attach a connector rod similar to that in an ice. The connector rod will turn a large sprocket or pulley which will turn a generator shaft. It's not that difficult, I am in the process of building it now, I plan to use it to turn a 20kw generator, but I think the same design could be used to turn a megawatt or larger, simple a matter of scale.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cherryman on December 14, 2012, 01:44:55 AM
Funny thing...


The Oil companies know it for ages...



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 20, 2012, 03:22:49 AM
Funny thing...

The Oil companies know it for ages...

It's not the same principle.

Watch what V. Milkovic said about the oil pumps and two-stage oscillator in one of his videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6xLglhs3rs&t=20m15s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: pree5 on December 20, 2012, 07:46:39 AM
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html

simulations.... :D ;D

here u can download physics simulation software....
http://www.overunity.com/13146/the-making-of-perpetual-motion-simulation/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 08, 2013, 01:58:31 PM
Two stage oscillator
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCYTu66BzA

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5560
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 17, 2013, 06:31:13 PM
Le Macchine di Leonardo - Il Martello a Camme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sth8thOtnUI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 18, 2013, 05:36:15 PM
Pendulum water pump?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONgcf1a9PfE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 23, 2013, 06:53:42 PM
Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator Art
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOYveBn3ibE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 23, 2013, 06:59:52 PM
Electric pendulum (Serbian replica by Milutin Micic)
This is an experimental pendulum driven with an electric coil and intended to be used for the two-stage oscillator of Veljko Milkovic. Electric current induced in the coil is charging the battery. This returned pulls of 7 mA is measured by ampere meter which can be seen in the film. The system has shown amplitude decrease for 3 cm after 10 hours of work. More precise measuring of spent current, returned current, maximal working time and the usage on two-stage oscillator is coming soon.

-----------------------

Električno klatno (replika: Milutin Micic)
Eksperimentalno klatno pogonjeno električnim solenoidom, namenjeno za dvostepeni oscilator Veljka Miljkovića. Sa solenoida je izvedena i struja punjenja u akumulator. Ovaj povraćaj oko 7 miliampera impulsno preko struje punjenja beleži ampermetar koji se vidi na snimku. Model je posle 10 sati rada zabeležio pad ampitude za 3 santimetra. Predstoje preciznija merenja utrošene struje, struje punjenja, maksimalnog vremena rada i primene na dvostepenom oscilatoru.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9VdHn08opM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9VdHn08opM)

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 05, 2013, 12:47:00 AM
Soccket: A Pendulum Ball

...the pendulum-like mechanism inside the SOCCKET captures the kinetic energy generated during normal play, and stores it in the ball for later use as an off-grid power source. Just 30 minutes of play can power a simple LED lamp for 3 hours.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/unchartedplay/soccket-the-energy-harnessing-soccer-ball (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/unchartedplay/soccket-the-energy-harnessing-soccer-ball)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Machi on March 18, 2013, 12:56:15 PM
 Some of you might find this link interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU[/font] It shows how pendulum that weights 1340 kg remains oscillating and it doesn’t take up lots of space.[/font]
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 24, 2013, 09:44:56 PM
...related to the discussion Milkovic vs. Bessler...

Bessler's Wheel with Rubber Drive
The goal of this wheel was to test elasticity of rubber as input source of energy. It is known that extended rubber will warm itself and has ability to convert thermal energy into kinetic energy. Down is short explanation taken from Wikipedia:

In its relaxed state, rubber consists of long, coiled-up polymer chains that are interlinked at a few points. At room temperature, rubber stores enough kinetic energy so that each section of chain oscillates chaotically. When rubber is stretched, the "loose pieces of rope" are taut and thus no longer able to oscillate. Their kinetic energy is given off as excess heat. The force exerted by a stretched piece of rubber increases with temperature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKiaxUoAkCQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKiaxUoAkCQ)


Bessler's Wheel with Spring Drive

The goal of this wheel was to test elasticity of a spring as an input source of energy. The idea is taken from Equivalence Engine of Bruce de Palma. He is also known as inventor of "N" Machine, a version of Faraday Homopolar Generator, which was supposed to produce free electric energy from cosmic aether. Note that this idea is not identical to Equivalence Engine as the engine was supposed to be excited to oscillate at natural frequency in order to work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uolz18oSseE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uolz18oSseE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 26, 2013, 04:57:55 PM
Gravity Wheel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT8QDJSnufI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 28, 2013, 12:53:03 AM
Milkovic pendulum replica from Russia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUm_nV3TRlQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUm_nV3TRlQ)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 01, 2013, 01:31:57 PM
Two stage mech osc 360
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc6VT2XPTuA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc6VT2XPTuA)

It was more difficult to load this video then it was to build the tsmo! Anyway, this is an out of tune 360 degree tsmo, and it is very hard to tune. Speed and balance is everything with this.Thinking of trying Chaklis's new design with this.It seems it would be unstoppable.It seems to be that springs of some sort are inevitable in these models, and/are the key item, but they are very hard to figure out . I don't like the wood construction steel seems better, but I really want to experiment around before building a nicer model. Next will be to try to add a similiar escapement like Ben Vandewaals over the top 360 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5INHb5aXLo . I think it will help to make tuning easier and get real measurements.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 06, 2013, 02:14:55 AM
Claus Carston's Pendulum Drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ODGccUfGwg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 22, 2013, 12:38:32 AM
for Feltenberger pendulum pump...

Electric Motor Option for the GP210

An optional 1hp electric motor is available for the GP210 to allow hands-free operation of the water pump in areas where electricity is available.  In the following video, you’ll see this option in action, and you’ll also see how to quickly switch the configuration back to hand-operation via the GP210 pendulum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iriiWcjjUqs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 02, 2013, 12:26:55 AM
Crude Pendulum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUVEiacOidg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 05, 2013, 08:00:20 PM
Permanent magnet GENERATOR/Home made/bench test hand crank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbpRdme4Tpg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 09, 2013, 01:35:30 AM
Could this system be used for the 2SO?

Ingo Bike
The Ingo Bike converts rider body movements into propulsion energy by way of an eccentric rear wheel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TdMKCOrmo

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 23, 2013, 01:41:14 PM
Tormo - perpetuum mobile principle by Velibor Borovic
This is principle. Moving axes of pendulum (or any body in rotation). This is NOT perpetum mobile. This 'machine' is made to show principle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aocsZuTBak
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on May 24, 2013, 09:07:03 PM
Tormo - perpetuum mobile principle by Velibor Borovic
This is principle. Moving axes of pendulum (or any body in rotation). This is NOT perpetum mobile. This 'machine' is made to show principle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aocsZuTBak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aocsZuTBak)
If this is the principle of perpetuum mobile, why does it not work?
To be honest, no principle of perpetuum mobile works because there is mathematically impossible to engineer such a machine.


Vidar


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Grk on May 25, 2013, 02:07:40 PM
The secret revealed!
Over the years, Mr. Milkovic has been working on an elastic pendulum. On his website you can see this new discovery.

It can be assumed that the secret lies in an innovation of the elastic pendulum. Synergy of gravity and spring incorporated in magnetic-gravity hybrid.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 18, 2013, 03:28:49 PM
Free electricity from gravity and perpetual motion by Daniel Bentea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=980UZtrzuC8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on June 22, 2013, 03:06:54 PM
If this is the principle of perpetuum mobile, why does it not work?
To be honest, no principle of perpetuum mobile works because there is mathematically impossible to engineer such a machine.


Vidar

Yidar

I have to disagree with you on the math statement in red.  ;)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: JordanN on June 29, 2013, 10:59:34 PM
A new replica from Austria

Milkovic schaukel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLV33t63CqY

I must say this video is great. I like that presentation :)

This Milkovic pendulum replica is excellent and I think the flashlight experiment is the best proof of overunity. The overunity effect is obvious here and the result will be many times better when he would make some improvements on his prototype!

Did he do something new in meanwhile?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 30, 2013, 12:38:26 AM
A new replica from Austria

Milkovic schaukel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLV33t63CqY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLV33t63CqY)


Although this is not professional research, this video and whole replica is really very good.

It is also good to see someone replicated Milkovic's experiment with these famous hand flashlights.
I think this was Milkovic's best proof of overunity so far.

Waiting to see the improvements on this replica...   and then no doubt the effects will be triple better.

Keep your work and good luck!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 11, 2013, 03:01:38 PM
Pendulum generator in a football/soccer ball
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2013/0702/Tanzania-Obama-kicks-soccer-ball-generates-power (http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2013/0702/Tanzania-Obama-kicks-soccer-ball-generates-power)


it is good to see some practical application of the pendulum power which Milkovic was promoting all these years!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 11, 2013, 02:01:52 PM
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
e-mail Newsletter - August 11, 2013 - News



1. Great recognition for Serbian inventor

American scientist has dedicated a part of his new book on gravitation to the analysis of Veljko Milkovic’s invention

New theoretical proof of ultra efficiency out to the fifth decimal point!

Steven L. Basic, is a USA scientist and researcher of Yugoslavian origin. His new book is dedicated to understanding the relationships of zero-point energy and gravitational acceleration of the planets throughout the Solar system. He has worked on the thesis of mechanical oscillatory systems, comprising the pendulum and lever, invented by the Serbian inventor Veljko Milkovic. http://www.amazon.com/Distribution-Gravitational-Acceleration-Planets-Throughout/dp/1483639142/ (http://www.amazon.com/Distribution-Gravitational-Acceleration-Planets-Throughout/dp/1483639142/)
 
In his fundamental scientific debate titled “Zero Point Energy per Stereo Radian and the Distribution of Gravitational Acceleration of Planets Throughout the Solar System - The Origin and Cause of Gravitation”, author Steven L. Basic has brought out one more theory of the multistage oscillatory system and has given an example of the efficiency calculation of the two-stage oscillator by using the contemporary theory of zero-point energy (ZPE).
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Steven_Basic_Zero_Point_Energy.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Steven_Basic_Zero_Point_Energy.pdf)
 
His mathematical analysis, with numerical calculation of the efficiency, has shown the positive energy balance which has been also claimed by many scientists and researchers around the world. This scientific debate represents the newest theoretical proof of the ultra efficiency of the two-stage oscillator which is in line with the former scientific announcements and opinions of respectable foreign and domestic university professors and experts in physics:

Prof. Bratislav Tosic, Ph.D,  http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_of_Tosic_1.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_of_Tosic_1.pdf)  http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_%20of_Tosic_2.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_%20of_Tosic_2.pdf)
Prof. Velimir Abramovic, Ph.D. http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_%20of_Abramovic.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_%20of_Abramovic.pdf)
Peter Lindemann, D.Sc. http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_Dr_Peter_Lindemann.PDF (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Opinion_Dr_Peter_Lindemann.PDF)  Brian Berrett, physicist http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator)
Ronald Pugh http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Merenja/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf)
etc. http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/MisljenjeEng.html (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/MisljenjeEng.html)
 
Published calculations of Steven L. Basic emphasize the ultra efficiency of the invention of the two-stage mechanical oscillator and precisely calculate the efficiency out to the fifth decimal point, which undoubtedly represents a revolution in energetics and ecology.
                  
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 11, 2013, 02:05:11 PM
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
e-mail Newsletter - August 11, 2013 - News



2. New paper by Veljko Milkovic: "Example of How an Invention Is Becoming Avant-Garde In Science"


We could say that the World Research Movement for the Two-Stage Oscillator, Pendulum Drive and Rotor with an Eccentric Mass started at the beginning of the XXI century. It features enthusiasts, pupils, students, inventors, artists, engineers and scientists from all over the world...

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Example_of_How_an_Invention_Is_Becoming_Avant-Garde_In_Science.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Example_of_How_an_Invention_Is_Becoming_Avant-Garde_In_Science.pdf) 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 11, 2013, 02:08:09 PM
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
e-mail Newsletter - August 11, 2013 - News



3. Preparation for the pendulum pump production in Novi Sad, Serbia

Preparation for the production of the Veljko Milkovic's hand water pump with a pendulum is currently being conducted in Novi Sad, Serbia with financial support from the Serbian Ministry of Education, Science and Technological Development and Provincial Secretariat for Economy, Employment and Gender Equality of the Autonomous Province of Vojvodina, Republic of Serbia.

One version of this pendulum pump is already being produced in the U.S.A. by Gravitational Energy Corporation (www.gravityassistedpower.com (http://www.gravityassistedpower.com/)) of which Veljko Milkovic received 200 shares as an award for his achievements in research in technologies and devices with pendulum drive.
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Priznanja/GEC_certificate.pdf
 (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Priznanja/GEC_certificate.pdf)
A photo of the ultra efficent pendulum pump prototype made in Novi Sad in 2012 by PC Panex Ltd.               
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 11, 2013, 02:12:13 PM
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
e-mail Newsletter - August 11, 2013 - News



4. Over a million page views on
veljkomilkovic.com

Official internet presentation of the researcher and inventor Veljko Milkovic (www.veljkomilkovic.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com)), which presents his innovations, patents and several decades-long research work, reached more than 1,000,000 page views and over 460,000 unique visits since 2005 when it is established.
http://counter17.bravenet.com/index.php?id=389379&type=overview&usernum=1406507702 (http://counter17.bravenet.com/index.php?id=389379&type=overview&usernum=1406507702)

Veljko Milkovic's official video presentations also recorded more than 780,000 views on YouTube, the world's leading video sharing platform, during the previous years.
Veljko Milkovic Official YouTube Video Channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ulianot/videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/Ulianot/videos)                 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 11, 2013, 02:14:10 PM
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
e-mail Newsletter - August 11, 2013 - News



5. Swiss magazine for new energy technologies on Veljko Milkovic

"NET-Journal" magazine presented the Serbian inventor, Veljko Milkovic and his famouse inventions; two-stage oscillator and self-heating eco-house concept in its November/December 2012 issue...
http://www.borderlands.de/net_pdf/NET1112S41.pdf (http://www.borderlands.de/net_pdf/NET1112S41.pdf)               
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on August 11, 2013, 04:02:41 PM
 
The electrical versions at:http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/ (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/) and http://www.pendulum-lever.com/applications.htmlare very interesting. Are there any electrical energy measurements available?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 12, 2013, 04:46:48 PM
These measurements are only available
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/experiments.html (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/experiments.html)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 25, 2013, 06:12:24 PM
like pendulum swing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm0aqBSGjQM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm0aqBSGjQM)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on August 26, 2013, 05:33:40 PM
These measurements look very exciting...
 http://www.pendulum-lever.com/experiments.html (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/experiments.html)

I tried to use a weight on a string and axle such that it would
lift a larger weight on an axle. That would be so simple that no one
could dispute it...
So being encouraged by these measurements I'll get back to that
idea again.

Part of the problem I encountered was just the balance between both sides
of the fulcrum in the middle. There is a weight shifting and leverage factor in there
that needs to be accounted for.

The problem I have encountered with magnetic and gravity mechanisms is you
can do work but then to repeat that requires a "reset" and when power/work is
taken out the reset cannot be done for another repeat cycle. But if only part
of the work done is removed then the repeat might be possible.

I tried to email  bebic.jovan@yahoo.com about the measurements but there is
no such id.  Does anyone know if that person is legitimate.


I see the Milkovic pendulum as a lever that has a shifting weight on the long end of the
fulcrum that then lifts the short end with a larger weight and then
drops that larger weight back down when the weight is shifted back to less
leverage and the cycle repeats.

that could be prooved by doing the leverage weight and distance tests and then
replacing the shifting weight with the Milkovic pendulum using the same weight and
the same arc/distance  as the shifted weight in the lever setup.

if the Milkovic setup lifts more weight than the shifting weight lever setup
then the Milkovic setup indeed has a magic trick factor...

The real trick in the testing is giving just enough tap on the pendulum to keep
the cycle going and measuring that tap.




Norman

   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 27, 2013, 02:46:53 AM
I tried to email  bebic.jovan@yahoo.com about the measurements but there is
no such id.  Does anyone know if that person is legitimate.

These measurements (by J. Bebic) were conducted in 2008 and who knows if the author's e-mail contact is still active.

You should try to contact Mr. Jovan Marjanovic instead. He was conducting some measurements and experiments too.
He is the chief analyst at the Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center and he could help you with any issues related to these pendulum machines.

His latest paper from 2012 is considered to be the summary of all knowledge on the Veljko Milkovic two-stage oscillator:
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf)
(his contact is on page 2)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ingyenenergiagep on August 27, 2013, 08:40:21 PM
Build a Veljko Milkovic Pendulum-powered overbalanced wheel/flywheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on August 27, 2013, 10:47:38 PM
I have built several but keep them light to see the principle better. The one I just made is for measurements only.
1. When the pendulum weight is further from the fulcrum there is more leverage and that small weight lifts the larger weight and
2. when the pendulum weight is closer to the axle the small weigh is lifted up because there is not enough leverage to over power and lift the larger weight.
3.  And if I pull the small pendulum weight up and away from the axle and drop it the "down yank" will lift the larger weight but
4. if it just hangs there the small weight will not lift the larger weight.
Number 3 goes beyond the standard physics of levers.

Now, How do I very simply measure any gain by the swinging pendulum from the number 3
"down yank"?

What I would like to see is this device driven by lets say 10 marbles falling 1 inch for the input
and then another 10 marbles lifted for some distance. And if that distance is over 1 inch then
we have real work gained.

My tests show that that "down yank" is small compared to the work done from the
leverage changes when the pendulum swings. And its not easy to get a rhythm going
so that it repeats the lifting.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 28, 2013, 03:21:53 PM
Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator Art
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOYveBn3ibE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 28, 2013, 03:25:48 PM
Research article

TWO-STAGE OSCILLATOR MECHANISM FOR OPERATING A RECIPROCATING PUMP
Prof. Nikhade, G. R., Patil, R.U. and Bansal, S. P.
Department of Mechanical Engineering, Shri Ramdeobaba College of Engineering and Management, Nagpur, India
http://journalajst.com/sites/default/files/Download%201339.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on September 04, 2013, 02:47:54 AM
In the following video each swing down of the pendulum makes the other end lift up so
I take it this is inertia doing the lifting. I thought leverage would play a role but it seems
not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOYveBn3ibE

therefore the physics forces should be easy to calculate.
And notice that he changed the fulcrum/leverage and was able to get it out of
sync such that each swing did not lift the other end. So my thinking is that the leverage allows the oscillation but is not the real lifting force.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on September 04, 2013, 04:30:17 PM
another configuration

this guy gets a large down pull on the swing out but not on swing back and none at the bottom
at about 1 min or so  leverage is about 1:1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I
Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: List on September 10, 2013, 02:34:52 PM
In the year 1903, the first plane was made by brothers Wright. Their first successful flight lasted 12 seconds and crossed the distance of just 40 m. After this, the aviation industry flourished. The point is that all pioneer works are hard and have similar flow of the story. Therefore, I consider this experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLV33t63CqY  as a really good start and I hope that this idea will develop!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: List on September 18, 2013, 04:21:51 PM
Merg, thank you for sharing paper about two-stage oscillator published in Asian Journal of Science and Technology.
http://journalajst.com/sites/default/files/Download%201339.pdf

It is evident that overunity is complete, proven by measures and calculations. Also they made a solid model and tested everything. Although, some technical improvements to the model are possible (in e.g. better size ratios and use of other materials).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on September 19, 2013, 12:16:48 AM
You all might want to check out the link and read the comments related to the study showing OU.  I believe there is some doubt as to its validity.

http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2013/08/28/1761/8502373_another-academic-paper-concluding-overunity-in-the-milkovic-two-stage-oscillator/ (http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2013/08/28/1761/8502373_another-academic-paper-concluding-overunity-in-the-milkovic-two-stage-oscillator/)

I have built several 2SOs in the last few years, 360 degree versions and original Milkovic versions, and none came close to OU.  My guess at this time is they are at best break-even devices (excluding friction and air resistance).  I continue to work with them, and hope to some day prove myself wrong.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: List on September 27, 2013, 12:50:16 AM
Interaction between the pendulum and the lever show completely new mechanical effects, so the old rules do not apply.

On this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajc6hzY-XXU pendulum that weighs 1340kg is moved with ease!
In order to get better results, the entire mass should have been at least 20cm lower than the axis.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 29, 2013, 02:18:08 PM
You all might want to check out the link and read the comments related to the study showing OU.  I believe there is some doubt as to its validity.

http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2013/08/28/1761/8502373_another-academic-paper-concluding-overunity-in-the-milkovic-two-stage-oscillator/ (http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2013/08/28/1761/8502373_another-academic-paper-concluding-overunity-in-the-milkovic-two-stage-oscillator/)

We must remember that the old rules do not apply to new mechanical effects in a two-stage oscillator.
A new theory which is still in development is needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6xLglhs3rs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6xLglhs3rs)

It is important to bear in mind that so far pioneering researches were conducted with modest means.
Relatively good results were achieved for the beginning.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 16, 2013, 12:00:23 AM
One more professional confirmation of free energy research of Veljko Milkovic's pendulum pump from India:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Mohan kumar L (India)

Bachelor of Engineering (B.E.), Mechanical Engineering
Rajalakshmi Institute of Technology, Chennai Area, India

Mohan kumar L's Projects
 
Design and Fabrication of PENDULUM OPERATED WATER PUMP
December 2012 to April 2013
 
Team Members: Mohan kumar L
Final Year Academic Project

This project explains the effect of creating the free energy in the device made of oscillating pendulum-lever system. Serbian inventor Veljko Milkovic (www.veljkomilkovic.com) has invented, patented and developed series of such machines based on two-stage oscillator for producing energy. The operation of the machine is based on forced oscillation of the pendulum. Part of the total oscillation energy of the pendulum-lever system is changed into work for operating a pump in this project.

http://in.linkedin.com/pub/mohan-kumar-l/43/b68/b79
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 18, 2013, 05:19:41 PM
Another Veljko Milkovic's pendulum pump replica from India

Hand Water pump wita a pendulum
by Arun Sahoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n7mvpLpP5A
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 18, 2013, 09:51:04 PM
Gandhian Young Technological Innovation Award (India) – innovation proposal for 2014

Design and Development of Low Effort Semi-Rotary Pendulum Pump for Multi-Fluid Application
http://www.techpedia.in/award/project-detail/Design-And-Development-Of-Low-Effort-Semi-Rotary-Pendulum-Pump (http://www.techpedia.in/award/project-detail/Design-And-Development-Of-Low-Effort-Semi-Rotary-Pendulum-Pump)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 18, 2013, 09:54:47 PM
Indian producers of educational kits and engineering lab models

Pendulum pump models
http://www.elabengineeringequipments.com/product-details/pendulum-pump-375.html

http://etherengineers.com/product/hydraulics-fluid-mechanics-lab-equipments-open-circuit/pendulum-pump/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 18, 2013, 09:59:47 PM
Indian students who studied Veljko Milkovic's pendulum pump / two-stage oscillator as a final year academic project or student project:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/krishanpal-patidar/4a/177/ab2

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mohan-kumar-l/43/b68/b79

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/nikhil-bansal/4a/536/831

http://in.linkedin.com/pub/ravi-gavkare/22/445/502

http://in.linkedin.com/pub/luv-bhatt/61/b29/472

http://qa.linkedin.com/pub/owais-khan/65/149/76a

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/harihar-mishra/56/a54/579

http://in.linkedin.com/pub/ambadas-mane/4b/8a9/2bb
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on October 19, 2013, 11:42:02 AM
   Hi  !
 A very old method that upsets a lot of "new" theory , at : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadoof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadoof)
 So...there is nothing new under the sun , excepting the old practical mechanics.
 Anyway , it can be a good starting point to develop a self powered gravity simple machine.,,,it's my opinion.
   Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: List on October 22, 2013, 10:28:06 PM
An interesting video you might be interested in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCkVmv4zizM&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL83620CD376BC9DA6
The cord loosens up because of the occurrence of complete transfer of kinetic energy, not just a light contact with the surface.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 31, 2013, 06:02:35 PM
Overunity in Simulation by MagnaMoRo
Simulation of a device generating mass acceleration overunity and making use of bidirectional energy extraction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjep9BFI_MU
Title: Miljkovic oscilator electro generator
Post by: mikipopovic on November 12, 2013, 01:57:27 PM
First, I 'm not particularly active in terms of electro-mechanical innovations, I am in computer business, but I do have some knowledge from that area from the university and from high school.

Because of many business commitments I didn’t have much time to deal with the idea of possible applications of this invention, calculations, etc., but one idea was very interesting.

The application of two-stage oscillator for generating electricity came to my attention.
I am personally interested in a smaller generator that would meet the needs of smaller consumers.

The idea that I have is shown in a drawing with the electrical diagram below

The idea itself is very simple, but it is possible that it is completely unsustainable, because I made no calculations of invested power, received power, power losses and so on.

My goal was to have as less possible moving mechanical elements, to reduce friction loses.

The generator rotor is connected to the shaft of the oscillator lever. Strong Neodymium permanent magnets are mounted on the generator rotor. They are successfully used for example for wind generators. Of course, permanent magnets can be replaced by strong electromagnets, for generators of greater power .
The output of the stator is AC voltage that can be corrected by Graetz circuit and transported to the consumer.
High power capacitor of large capacity is charged by a generator.
The generator is started by an external force, starting the pendulum, until stable oscillations are achieved.
Upon starting the generator capacitor (C) is filled with electric charge.
When the pendulum comes to the position near the coil (L) , the pendulum cuts the beam of photocell, photocell triggers the relay which terminates connection of capacitor C with the generator and connects the output of capacitor (C)  to solenoid (L), solenoid fires electromagnetic field that pushes pendulum which also has magnet mounted on itself.
This situation is shown in the picture.
Polarities of magnet on the pendulum and electromagnet have the same poles facing each other, so they would push each other away, thus maintaining oscillations of two-stage oscillator.

A mechanism should also be constructed that would trigger the relay, which is triggered by photocell, on every third, fourth swing of the pendulum, or whatever is best calculated (relay shouldn’t be triggered on every pendulum swing, because there is enough power of inertia in the pendulum).

The idea is that the output of the generator is large enough, so that the part of the power that goes into maintaining a sufficient oscillation is less than the total output power, so that the generator could successfully power the consumers (or at least slowly charge the battery for later use) .

Of course this is just an initial sketch of the idea, probably there will be a need to improve certain elements of the system.

Feel free to contact me, I'm interested in your opinions.


Best regards ,

Miki
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 17, 2013, 07:38:05 PM
 
Analysis dealing with the Milkovic pendulum by Anon Ymous, M.Sc. M.E.
http://www.overunity.com/13557/double-pendulum-power/dlattach/attach/129275/ (http://www.overunity.com/13557/double-pendulum-power/dlattach/attach/129275/)

Discussion
http://www.overunity.com/13557/double-pendulum-power/ (http://www.overunity.com/13951/artificial-gravity-power/#.UokKNScaS-0)

http://www.overunity.com/13951/artificial-gravity-power/ (http://www.overunity.com/13951/artificial-gravity-power/#.UokKNScaS-0)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 17, 2013, 07:53:39 PM
Two Stage Oscillator Free Energy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mikipopovic on November 19, 2013, 08:07:59 PM
Great video, thanks!
It describes everything simply with basic math!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on November 19, 2013, 11:40:02 PM
Centrifugal force of the swinging pendulum bob is responsible for the lifting of the counter weight, not leverage, as suggested by the video's author.  The author needs to spend more time studying and understanding the operation and principles of the Milkovic Two Stage Oscillator before making such incorrect assumptions and statements.  YouTube is a great place to share information, but everyone should keep in mind that it is also a place of much erroneous and inaccurate information.  I suggest all forum members interested in such devices build one for testing.  There is much that can be learned and applied from such a simple device.

Assume the counter weight and pivot point of the pendulum are the same distance from the fulcrum.  Also assume the counter weight is twice the weight of the pendulum bob.  A pendulum bob dropped from the horizontal will have CF (centrifugal force) of twice it's own weight at the bottom of its swing.  Not enough to lift the counter weight in this case.  However, if the fulcrum to pivot point is shortened just a bit, or the weight of the bob is slightly increased, the counter weight will be briefly lifted as the bob passes the 6 o'clock position.  Now to Bessler's point that 1lb can lift 4lb's.  A pendulum bob dropped from the 12 o'clock position will have CF of four times its own weight at the bottom of the swing.  If the fulcrum to pivot point is of the right length (remember my statement above), a 1lb pendulum bob can lift a 4lb counter weight.  Coincidence?  Who knows.

Can anyone think of a way to incorporate a two stage oscillator within an overbalanced wheel.  The 2SO would be responsible for the lifting of the wheels weights to the overbalanced position.  The rotating wheel would provide some force feedback to the pendulum to maintain it's swing.  Something to think about.

You need hands on time working with a Milkovic 2SO before you can fully understand what is right (and wrong) with the design, and what you can do with it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 23, 2013, 12:06:11 PM
Another Milkovic pendulum pump replica from India:

Gravity Energy Machine (The Pendulum Pump)
Diploma in Mechanical Engineering Final year (2013) project made by me and my team Jatan Desai, Amey Patel and Vinay Sawant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4gLRODJAIU

Pendulum Pump
Gravity Energy machine (The pendulum Pump)
Its our final year diploma project. We are Mech engg. students from Mumbai.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLe6SCH7Qg

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on November 25, 2013, 08:03:22 PM
After building and experimenting with 2SOs, you will find the device is more efficient when either the "counter weight to main lever pivot point" is longer than the "pendulum pivot point to main lever pivot point", or the counter weight is approximately 2x or more heavier than the pendulum bob (assuming both distances mentioned above are equal).  The reason is you want to counter weight oscillation to occur quickly (that is the up and down movement).  A quicker movement means more force, and thus more work can be done in less time (more power).
The standard Milkovic 2SO is a break even design (assuming no loses due to friction or air resistance).  Has anyone given much thought as to why?  Build one and experiment with it.  The reason will become clear.  It's acceleration.  I probably shouldn't have said, but I'll let you determine where and how to eliminate it.  Until you do, you won't progress beyond the standard design and it's results.
Looking at different designs is great for inspiration, but eventually you are going to have to build one.  There is no substitute for the hands on knowledge you will gain.  Forget the simulations, they won't help you "feel" what you need to know to move on.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: LibreEnergia on November 25, 2013, 10:28:00 PM

The standard Milkovic 2SO is a break even design (assuming no loses due to friction or air resistance).  Has anyone given much thought as to why?

I would predict any 2SO will be at best a break even device. The device stores energy the pendulum. Once that energy is used up it stops. Exactly the same amount as was put in will be available as output, minus any losses to friction or air resistance etc.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on November 25, 2013, 11:02:05 PM
 I have done much experimenting with the TSMO, and one thing I think a lot of people overlook is the fact that you can change the weight, dimensions, pivot points, leverage, pendulum swing, pendulum length, etc., etc. You can build small models to experiment with, but a large model with a 50 to 200 lb.(OR more even) pendulum may really make you think twice about this device. There is an amazing the amount of work done with relative ease.
 @ zoelera
 Feltonburger,s tsmo method also seems to work well, despite not using the lever aspect. Or maybe it works better.  Not sure.
 Greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: LibreEnergia on November 25, 2013, 11:52:53 PM
... You can build small models to experiment with, but a large model with a 50 to 200 lb.(OR more even) pendulum may really make you think twice about this device. There is an amazing the amount of work done with relative ease.
 Greg

Rather than make such statements, that offer no attempt at quantizing the results, actually measure the inputs and outputs with some accuracy and then comment.

If you do what you will find is that energy is conserved and there is no over-unity present.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on November 26, 2013, 11:08:33 PM
I have not built models using weights larger than 10lb, as the CF at 6 o'clock (either 20lb or 40lb depending on drop height) was at the limit of the materials used.  I prefer lighter builds as you can see the effects of friction and CF more clearly.  IMO the current Milkovic design does not provide the answer but other modifications may prove useful.  Only time and hands on testing will provide the answers.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on November 27, 2013, 01:12:32 AM
@ libre,
 I am sorry that I do not have a huge research facility and staff to help me. I have built all my tsmo projects with my own money, my own time, and by myself. I understand that you want scientific results, but, Do you think I keep building these because I am some kind of idiot? Milkovic has never had his patents disproved. Let me assure you that when you are moving a pendulum that weighs 100lbs., like your dribbling a basketball, you will think differently of milkovics ideas.
 If you look at the recent posts about the overunity in pumping water, I would have to say that I came up with similar results.
 This is the reason I have been building these and the reason I will continue to do so.

 Peace all,
Greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 08, 2013, 01:24:41 PM
Milkovic's two stage mechanical oscillator - oscilating vs. rotating pendulum test
by Trajkociklista (YouTube)

What we have here is a quick and dirty mock up of Milkovic's two stage oscillator.

I just used what I had laying around, and as I always have few bicycle components.

Its no secret that if you remove one pedal from the free rotating bicycle crankset,
once you start it and get it to rotate, it takes very little to keep rotating, just a touch of a finger between the last quarter of it's rotation before the top spot.
So I figured that that might be much easier type of pendulum motion to keep energized.
Just a simple motor with a chain/belt drive could be be rigged up to drive the pendulum axle.
Now, as I've noticed while spinning a bicycle crankset with a pinkie, is that the rotating gives much more "kick" then the swinging one, I wanted to see if it would result in more powerful oscillation at the other end. And as you can see, it definitely does.

Here are the facts and the math:

Lever has 1.61 ratio (the golden ratio! just a coincidence really, since I'm using a recumbent bike frame here (buy yours here: velomotion.weebly.com :) )
it's just accidental that the ratio between the lever pivot point (actually an idler wheel mounting point) and the rear wheel axle/crankset axle is exactly 1.61, with 89cm from the pivot point to the rear wheel axle (center of the mass for the wheel, could have used a weight, but I don't have any) and 55cm to the crankset axle.

Pendulum(a pair of bicycle pedals) weights 533 grams, rotating on a 170m crank arm.
Weight is a rear wheel, with a weight of 1700 grams.
So with a 1.61 lever ratio, we need 2700 grams on the pendulum side in order to balance the seesaw, which I confirmed by placing a precision scale between my hand and the end of the lever, which showed 2700g needed to balance the seesaw, where wheel starts to lift off the ground as soon as the scale hits 2000g So, in order to lift the wheel, 533g pendulum will have to create a minimum of 2000g, or ca.4 times more then it's own weight, and 5 times more to balance the seesaw.

Then I got the pendulum oscillating, helping it with a slight push of a finger.
I can not precisely determine how mush do I need to push it to keep it oscillating,
because of all the motion, but it definitely feels more then the force that helps it keep rotating.
To keep it rotating i'm just slightly touching the crank near the crank axis, and about the same pressure on the scale shows around 300 grams, and that's just on the last quarter before the top spot of rotation.

With oscillations, as you can see, wheel did start to go up, but just a little bit.
And then I start to spin it and the back and goes wild ;)
When I give it proper speed it's around the balancing point, or ca. 2500g (or even more, hard to tell with an unstable dirty rig like this, need to make it fixed and stable)
out of a 533g pendulum + 300g pulse to keep it rotating.
But as you can see, when the wheel starts to really kick off with the raised rpm of the crnak, the amplitude of the pendulum gets really serious, much more then the 2700g nedded to balance it.
At that point there is a problem with stability of this flimsy mock up, and I also have trouble keeping that rpm with my finger as I just can't follow the crank fast enough
to give it a push when it needs it.

Anyways, this thing definitely works as advertised, that's pretty obvious I think, and it's just the question of how much amplification are we getting here.
But whatever it is, gravity/inertia/centrifugal forces really do some serious work here,
so in any case we get much more then we paid for in terms of power needed to keep the pendulum rotating, for the work done on the other side.

Great invention from Mr. Milković ! It can have so many practical purposes.

Video link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U9WUGwJNX4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 02, 2014, 01:49:20 AM
pendule milkovic (mauvaise configuration)
by freedericklane (YouTube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bNOUqKWgc

Dispositif sur le principe du pendule de MILKOVIC .Ces deux montages ne sont pas bon car le cycle de l'embiellage de la roue ne correspond pas au cycle du mouvement de va et vient de l'effet Milkovic qui n'est pas sinusoïdale.
Un bon moyen pour récupérer la force en mouvement rotatif est d'utiliser une "roue libre" à cliquet d'une roue de vélo par exemple.

Il est intéressant de constater l'échange d'énergie entre le pendule et la roue d'inertie dû à la désynchronisation des deux mouvements(rotation,pendule) qui sont indépendant.(on l'entend au bruit)

GOOGLE TRANSLATE TO ENGLISH:

Device on the principle of pendulum Milkovic. Both mounts are not good because the cycle of the crankshaft wheel does not match the cycle of movement back and forth of Milkovic effect is not sinusoidal.
A good way to get the strength to rotary motion is to use a "freewheel" ratchet wheel bike for example.

It is interesting that the energy exchange between the pendulum and the inertia due to the synchronization of the two movements (rotation, pendulum), which are independent wheel. (You can hear the sound)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 02, 2014, 05:22:25 PM
Both mounts are not good because the cycle of the crankshaft wheel does not match the cycle of movement back and forth
...which is saying, in effect, that it is not "in resonance".

It needs to be "in resonance".
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 06, 2014, 06:45:42 PM
Double Pendulum Power - Method for Extracting Power from a Mechanical Oscillator

A Numerical Analysis using the Runge Kutta Method to Solve the Euler Lagrange Equation for a Double Pendulum with Mechanical Load

...From these simulations we conclude that it is possible to extract considerably more energy from a double pendulum system than is used to set the outer pendulum in motion initially. This is due to the fact that rotation of the outer pendulum creates what we might call artificial gravity, i.e. a constantly oscillating force acting as a torque on the fixed pivot.

The result is that by adding 8.5 W of input power we continuously generate about 60 W of output power. A COP of about 7.

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Double-Pendulum-Power-AC-Power-from-a-Mechanical-Oscillator.pdf

http://www.scribd.com/doc/146232946/Double-Pendulum-Power-AC-Power-from-a-Mechanical-Oscillator
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Grimer on January 17, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
To juan_86 and others that try to "measure" the two stage oscillator by using 2D physics simulation software:

I think the approach is completely flawed, because those programs only act by the standard laws of physics (newton), so of course no overunity
effect will show up.

Moreover, we live in a real world where at least some small friction is always present. So in order to extract useful energy, the system must overcome
this friction. So the only way to demonstrate clearly whether there is a real, practical overunity effect, is to build a real model of the machine and measure the outcome.
I find it hilarious that so many people still use physics simulation software and try to demonstrate if some machines (gravity wheels, etc)  show an overunity effect.
Of course it is easier and cheaper (basically free) to simulate those machines by using simulation software rather than building the real model.
But in case of overunity machines, we are  outside the conventional physics domain, and unfortunately classical-physics simulation software will miserably fail.
So start build your models and measure the data. The nature will not lie. Often small models will suffice because many processes in nature are repeatable at a smaller scale. If there is a gravity wheel design that works, then probably it works regardless whether it is 20cm  or 10metres in diameter.
The forces will of course be bigger but the effect should be reproducible on small scales models too.

Of course there are some exceptions, for example critical mass for atomic reactions etc, but I don't believe that overunity devices that do use gravity, inertia or centrifugal forces do have this critical mass (or size) requirements.


A very sensible post.


Well done.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Grimer on January 17, 2014, 06:33:07 PM
... Absolute simplicity in design and function comes from knowledge and understanding- not textbooks.
Absolutely.  8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Grimer on January 22, 2014, 04:30:39 PM
pendule milkovic (mauvaise configuration)
by freedericklane (YouTube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bNOUqKWgc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bNOUqKWgc)

Dispositif sur le principe du pendule de MILKOVIC .Ces deux montages ne sont pas bon car le cycle de l'embiellage de la roue ne correspond pas au cycle du mouvement de va et vient de l'effet Milkovic qui n'est pas sinusoïdale.
Un bon moyen pour récupérer la force en mouvement rotatif est d'utiliser une "roue libre" à cliquet d'une roue de vélo par exemple.

Il est intéressant de constater l'échange d'énergie entre le pendule et la roue d'inertie dû à la désynchronisation des deux mouvements(rotation,pendule) qui sont indépendant.(on l'entend au bruit)

GOOGLE TRANSLATE TO ENGLISH:

Device on the principle of pendulum Milkovic. Both mounts are not good because the cycle of the crankshaft wheel does not match the cycle of movement back and forth of Milkovic effect is not sinusoidal.
A good way to get the strength to rotary motion is to use a "freewheel" ratchet wheel bike for example.

It is interesting that the energy exchange between the pendulum and the inertia due to the synchronization of the two movements (rotation, pendulum), which are independent wheel. (You can hear the sound)
Yep. You should pursue that ratchet idea because hiving off half the angular momentum to earth is the way to go.
In effect you are bringing the slingshot effect (gravity assist as NASA like to call it) sown to earth.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on January 23, 2014, 08:05:35 PM
Quote
The result is that by adding 8.5 W of input power we continuously generate about 60 W of output power. A COP of about 7.

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Double-Pendulum-Power-AC-Power-from-a-Mechanical-Oscillator.pdf

http://www.scribd.com/doc/146232946/Double-Pendulum-Power-AC-Power-from-a-Mechanical-Oscillator


The results from quoted paper is mathematical model meaning that model could be good or wrong. Real world knows nothing about mathematics. We use mathematics to explain real world.
If we want to know something about some process we do experiments and measurements. Sometime very simple.
Suppose we want to make closer look in behavior of two stage mechanical oscillator (TSMO) by changing the load.

In the set we have TSMO and water pump. Inlet level of water is constant. Outlet level will be changed. We will not change any element of TSMO during experiment.
We will measure time for loading reservoir of constant volume at outlet level, number of swing and energy needed for maintaining constant swing of the pendulum.
Outlet level will rise one meter after every loading of outlet reservoir with constant volume (outlet pipe ends at upper - maximum - level of reservoir)
Equivalent of added energy will be a force and a time needed to maintain constant swing of the pendulum.
Force will be measured by tenzometric cell from cheep Chinese scale hooked to some Arduino with analog module.
Times will be measured by the same Arduino
Because energy will be added by hand, it is necessary to measure the angle of pendulum swing. This will do it some angle measurement device hooked to the Arduino.

Not so simple? I agree. We could survive without Arduino, force and angle measurement using only old good stopwatch and our sense for hand load of pendulum.
I am an engineer and I like to be precise as much as possible in given circumstances giving maximum insight. This is the reason for "extra" measurement  :)

When our experiment will end? When pendulum proceed to swing without pumping.
This means that energy needed for pumping is equal or greater than energy loaded by gravity and hand.
Even without really doing proposed experiment, one could conclude following:
  1. Gravity energy is constant because we do not change any element of TSMO
  2. Energy added by hand is finite and could not be greater than needed for constant swing

Other conclusion are up to you...

My conclusion is that participation of hand added energy will rise for every rise of outlet reservoir, simply because that this extra energy is equivalent of loss in the system TSMO & pump. Next conclusion is that time for every loading of outlet reservoir after rising the level will be longer and longer because more and more energy will be used to push water up at the expense of pump loading with water.

Further conclusion is that it is not possible to borrow some energy from pump side to replace hand added energy because this will be extra load (like rising the level of outlet reservoir) demanding more "hand" added energy. Lever is rigid body making both side mutual dependent.

The bottom line is that overunity is not possible with TSMO.

If you do not believe in my conclusions, do the experiments with Arduino measurement  8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on January 23, 2014, 08:50:29 PM
According to video clips and simulations the movement of lever in system lever/pendulum is "peculiar".

Playing with pendulum I realize that vertical movement of pivot in a certain way could make a swing of pendulum constant. This means that moving of opposite side of a lever in a certain way could make a swing of pendulum constant. This is not happened because moving of pendulum side is not strictly vertical but circular adding horizontal force to pendulum.

Out there is a number of experimenters who could add pivot movement constrain to his construction making it move strictly up and down. This extra part will add some loss to machine but lever will swing more stable than without. This constrain will remove the need for moving limiters meaning that all energy in disposal could be used by working machine (pump) without wasting it by pushing limiters  :)

Further thinking in the direction leads me to the conclusion that ideal working machine will be one having working cycle which support proposed movement of pendulum pivot.

Which machine it could be?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on January 25, 2014, 03:53:10 PM
Further thinking in the direction leads me to the conclusion that ideal working machine will be one having working cycle which support proposed movement of pendulum pivot.

Which machine it could be?

Suppose that we have found such a machine :D

It still does not mean that the system, TSMO & wonder machine, could work without adding energy
but then it would be necessary to add the least amount of energy to sustain endless work (if we need it) :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on January 25, 2014, 07:47:46 PM
@ Paologigli,
 Good observations, except that you can not use the lever end output  to manipulate the pivot point. The output from the lever end needs to push the pendulum only, at least from my observations. Otherwise you are not really isolating the pendulum from the lever( which is what milkovics theory is all about.) Milkovics idea is that the pendulum moves independent of the lever.
 I may not be seeing something that you are thinking, but if you show me a drawing of what you are thinking, I would be happy to give you some suggestions.
 I am in the process of building a new frame for a tsmo, and hopefully will have it completed soon.
 @all,
 While I am in the process of building my new model I would like to hear anybody's suggestions. I am working on an idea for  a water and/ or steam actuated device, but, all suggestions will be taken.
 Gdez
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on January 25, 2014, 08:40:35 PM
@ Paologigli,
 Good observations, except that you can not use the lever end output  to manipulate the pivot point. The output from the lever end needs to push the pendulum only, at least from my observations. Otherwise you are not really isolating the pendulum from the lever( which is what milkovics theory is all about.) Milkovics idea is that the pendulum moves independent of the lever.
 I may not be seeing something that you are thinking, but if you show me a drawing of what you are thinking, I would be happy to give you some suggestions.
 I am in the process of building a new frame for a tsmo, and hopefully will have it completed soon.

Maybe I was not clear enough or you misunderstand me. Manipulation of pivot point with lever is possible (without working machine, by hand, try :) ) but ONLY to understand the law of motion (extracted by measuring the movement of pivot, acceleration etc.) good enough to get a picture of possible working cycle in order to choose the working machine that best fits. Maybe no one, but with the one what is fits, the loss will bi minimal.

If you reread some of the previous posts, you'll find my stand point, but for sure, here :) : http://www.overunity.com/14225/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-measurement-framework/ (http://www.overunity.com/14225/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-measurement-framework/) (there is no isolation of circular movement of pivot)

Consider isolation of circular movement of pendulum pivot... :)

Paolo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on January 31, 2014, 09:37:41 PM
Some conversation from PM... of common interest...

Quote
1) By now, I've found that TSMO doesn't produce overunity. The reason is that its pivot point should move of a very few distance, or the pendulum reduces the oscillation very much and then it's necessary put too much energy for let it oscillate again.

If you translate your conclusion in common language, this means that your working side need more energy than pendulum could give and proceed to work smoothly. In other words, useful work of pendulum is small. Pendulum needs almost all energy for swinging and a fraction you could use for real work. This is the reason for heavy weight bob, then the "fraction" is greater. Sadly but truth...

Quote
And for having a very short movement of the pivot point you need a very bad ratio between the two arms.

I propose you a game
Use old tennis ball, ~75 cm of fishing line and 10 cm of welding wire. Put wire through ball and do the rest to make tennis ball with fishing line pendulum. If you play with it, you will realize that moving pivot (your fingers) up and down in curtain manner you could control the swing of pendulum. If this movement is greater, the swing is greater and opposite. Then make a lever from, lets say, no more then 1 meter of wooden plunk pivoting in the middle. Put pendulum in one side and try to make the same movement of pendulum like previous by moving by hand the opposite side of pendulum. I bet you could not or very hard. Then use some quadratic part of carton (10x10 cm) with hole in the middle. Put fishing line through this hole and hook to the lever again. Make carton to be stable bellow pivot but far enough to let lever move freely. Try to make again the same as by bare hand. I bet it is easier to control the swing. What is the morals of the game.
1. You could control the swing by moving the lever,
2. Vertical movement could be great,
3. Movement of a pivot (hole in the carton) is strictly vertical

The consequence of this game is following: We make pendulum to oscillate by vertical movement of pivot, we could use some machine, instead of our hand, to mimic the movement of our hand (in sense of a working cycle) and in that way support the swinging of a pendulum and then we could add to the pendulum some energy to do the work of such machine (in this situation we will have the least losses)

Quote
2) Using sensors, as you says, could be a good way for see if this system, in any ways, could work or not. But, have you ideas about any improvement of the system, such to really obtain overunity?

First, your question. TSMO is not capable to make overunity. I think I already told you why (or post in the forum). Because, for every full swing you have to recreate the initial conditions, ie. to put pendulum in starting position. After swing and returning in starting position, pendulum do not have the same high like in start and you have to add some quantity of energy to compensate this. In every swing! Does this looks you as good conditions for overunity?
  - Input energy is not a compensation solely but starting potential energy of a pendulum.
  - Compensation is a matter of loos and a fraction of work did it by some working machine.
  - TSMO have really bad efficiency.

And some improvements... As I already have propose, strictly vertical movement of pendulum pivot and also strictly vertical movement of working machine pivot (obvious) in order to minimize horizontal component of acceleration. Lever and pendulum needs smooth movements to achieve best transfer of energy (most efficient).

In other words, "12 times more output than input" claim by Milkovic group had arise from deep misunderstanding of two stage mechanical oscillator way of work. We have to ask ourselves, how come that free energy community spent so much time in investigating and experimenting without critical questioning of starting premise about what it is a real input energy in the system pendulum/lever? This is a serious question and needs proper answer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 03, 2014, 04:44:14 PM
Something new from gdez100

two stage mechanical oscillator 2014 and other stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDj4kFWE4A8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 03, 2014, 04:48:24 PM
Some company from South Africa offering the pendulum pump
http://thegreenboyzenergy.com/human-powered-borehole-pump/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 03, 2014, 04:55:32 PM
It would be good if we could see something like this in our gardens and parks

Africa water pumping swing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG_OfuIY0RQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on February 04, 2014, 12:49:51 AM
Hello Merg,

Something new from gdez100

two stage mechanical oscillator 2014 and other stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDj4kFWE4A8

This link just documenting that some guy out there prepare himself to make some kind of pendulum contraption. There is no connection with what I emphasized in previous reply.

Quote
Some company from South Africa offering the pendulum pump
http://thegreenboyzenergy.com/human-powered-borehole-pump/

This pump is exactly the one represented in Milkovic`s group videos. Someone make a copy of this pump or VEMIRC (Milkovic group official name) sold it to company from South Africa. Here is one of a links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI)

What to say. It is working. The water got out from the pump. But... It is a bad engineering. Look at the lever, 3.5:1, meaning what ever force you have at pendulum side at a pump side is only 3.5 part of it. When you see some spring at the pump side it is obvious a force is even less, not to mention added weight near the lever pivot (video clip).

Quote
It would be good if we could see something like this in our gardens and parks

Africa water pumping swing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG_OfuIY0RQ

Nice example of using pendulum (people swinging) for pumping water but also nice example of inefficiency of such system. Be patient and watch again from start. What quantity of water boy have got from pump (pumping hard) and what quantity they have got by swinging, it is more fun, I admit :)
For sake of fun, socializing and time consuming swinging is a good approach but old school pumping is more efficient :)

Merg, what your replays have with other people contributions here? You have added new links to videos, "scientific" papers and such things without any real evidence about "12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !" or anything else close to 1, not to mention overunity.

It is a shame for VEMIRC TSMO laboratory for not organize exact measuring of input/output characteristics so long time, especially for TSMO lab front-men Mr. Jovan Marjanović. His mass production of "scientific" papers show deep misunderstanding of basic principle of physics (pendulum, lever) in order to "explain" "overunity" of pendulum/lever  "behavior" in Milkovic TSMO. Mr. Jovan Marjanović have the highest academic rank in VEMIRC and his responsibility is the highest.

At least as expected from VEMIRC TSMO Lab is accurate measuring, not some contraption like in http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf) page 17. Mr. Marjanović is M.Sc. in Electrical Engineering and should know the methods of measuring of required values for this purpose. If not, it is free to use my proposal for measuring framework presented here http://www.overunity.com/14225/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-measurement-framework#.UvAfDUL3yHs (http://www.overunity.com/14225/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-measurement-framework#.UvAfDUL3yHs). It is clear and repeatable. Mr. Marjanović is free to use other my proposals to improve behavior of pendulum/lever construction. It is free to contact me if he need further explanation (measurement framework is not worked out completely). But this will not happen, I suppose :)

Free energy community do not need any new links of any kind except accurate scientific measuring report of TSMO.

Paolo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: wings on February 04, 2014, 09:09:03 AM
Hello Merg,

This link just documenting that some guy out there prepare himself to make some kind of pendulum contraption. There is no connection with what I emphasized in previous reply.

This pump is exactly the one represented in Milkovic`s group videos. Someone make a copy of this pump or VEMIRC (Milkovic group official name) sold it to company from South Africa. Here is one of a links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI)

What to say. It is working. The water got out from the pump. But... It is a bad engineering. Look at the lever, 3.5:1, meaning what ever force you have at pendulum side at a pump side is only 3.5 part of it. When you see some spring at the pump side it is obvious a force is even less, not to mention added weight near the lever pivot (video clip).

Nice example of using pendulum (people swinging) for pumping water but also nice example of inefficiency of such system. Be patient and watch again from start. What quantity of water boy have got from pump (pumping hard) and what quantity they have got by swinging, it is more fun, I admit :)
For sake of fun, socializing and time consuming swinging is a good approach but old school pumping is more efficient :)

Merg, what your replays have with other people contributions here? You have added new links to videos, "scientific" papers and such things without any real evidence about "12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !" or anything else close to 1, not to mention overunity.

It is a shame for VEMIRC TSMO laboratory for not organize exact measuring of input/output characteristics so long time, especially for TSMO lab front-men Mr. Jovan Marjanović. His mass production of "scientific" papers show deep misunderstanding of basic principle of physics (pendulum, lever) in order to "explain" "overunity" of pendulum/lever  "behavior" in Milkovic TSMO. Mr. Jovan Marjanović have the highest academic rank in VEMIRC and his responsibility is the highest.

At least as expected from VEMIRC TSMO Lab is accurate measuring, not some contraption like in http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Recommendations_for_Construction_and_Efficiency_Measuring.pdf) page 17. Mr. Marjanović is M.Sc. in Electrical Engineering and should know the methods of measuring of required values for this purpose. If not, it is free to use my proposal for measuring framework presented here http://www.overunity.com/14225/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-measurement-framework#.UvAfDUL3yHs (http://www.overunity.com/14225/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-measurement-framework#.UvAfDUL3yHs). It is clear and repeatable. Mr. Marjanović is free to use other my proposals to improve behavior of pendulum/lever construction. It is free to contact me if he need further explanation (measurement framework is not worked out completely). But this will not happen, I suppose :)

Free energy community do not need any new links of any kind except accurate scientific measuring report of TSMO.

Paolo
Paolo here simulation pendulum and nonlinear study.
pendulum lab
http://www.elmer.unibas.ch/pendulum/lab.htm

http://www.elmer.unibas.ch/pendulum/parres.htm (http://www.elmer.unibas.ch/pendulum/parres.htm)


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on February 04, 2014, 03:08:29 PM
Paolo here simulation pendulum and nonlinear study.
pendulum lab
http://www.elmer.unibas.ch/pendulum/lab.htm

http://www.elmer.unibas.ch/pendulum/parres.htm (http://www.elmer.unibas.ch/pendulum/parres.htm)

Well, nice analytic solution for moving center of gravity...

Thank you, wings :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on February 05, 2014, 12:14:10 AM
@ Merg,
 I like all your updates and videos and docs. Thanks for all your work.
@ paoligigli,
 You obviously haven't built one of these devices yet and I will tell you , that while milcovics theories seem simple, there is much more to it when you start building. Connecting a "load" to the lever is not as simple as it seems. It's easy to draw up ideas and tell people that they are not doing it right, until you try it yourself.
 Water pumping directly from the lever, you will see immediantly that if you don't have a perfectly designed system you will never get this to work right. Your fluid dynamics would have to be perfect to get the machine in resonance.
 From what I see, you need to use a flywheel/spring or a pneumatic buffer to connect the load.(expansion tank?) to in a sense "disconnect"  the load from the lever.
 I feel your frustration, but I am not some milkovic groupie. I have built some of these models, and if I didn't think there was something to it, I would have given up a while ago.
 Also on your links on "pumping a swing"----been there--- done that.
 Good stuff, but why don't you start really experimenting yourself and you will see it's not as easy as just telling people there not doing the job.
 Cheers all,
 greg
 

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on February 05, 2014, 05:26:50 AM
@ Merg,
 I like all your updates and videos and docs. Thanks for all your work.
@ paoligigli,
 You obviously haven't built one of these devices yet and I will tell you , that while milcovics theories seem simple, there is much more to it when you start building. Connecting a "load" to the lever is not as simple as it seems. It's easy to draw up ideas and tell people that they are not doing it right, until you try it yourself.
 Water pumping directly from the lever, you will see immediantly that if you don't have a perfectly designed system you will never get this to work right. Your fluid dynamics would have to be perfect to get the machine in resonance.
 From what I see, you need to use a flywheel/spring or a pneumatic buffer to connect the load.(expansion tank?) to in a sense "disconnect"  the load from the lever.
 I feel your frustration, but I am not some milkovic groupie. I have built some of these models, and if I didn't think there was something to it, I would have given up a while ago.
 Also on your links on "pumping a swing"----been there--- done that.
 Good stuff, but why don't you start really experimenting yourself and you will see it's not as easy as just telling people there not doing the job.
 Cheers all,
 greg

Hello greg,

Sorry greg, I do not have any reason to be frustrated :)
It is obvious that members of free energy community are frustrated because there are so many useless TSMO contraptions. I am an engineer and before building any kind of machine I use to follow some procedures: to see what others did and does (forums, blogs, sights, patents, scientific papers, Ms.C and Ph.D papers etc.), to study the problems others has, find solutions for problems of interest, find flaws or omissions in basic principles and, at last, make decisions of my own construction.

Most important part of some experiment is measuring and insight in delivered data. Second important part is fast change of vital parameters of the machine. Before this important parts is crucial detail. You have to know all principles of physics to be able to catch "something" if this "something" really exist. Many members of free energy community is not "armed" enough to fight with "something".

This is a main reason why i have proposed construction with all measurements needed for quality decision making. This construction of TSMO gives opportunity for easy changing of mechanical parameters. Measurement and control are designed to be cheap and easily available. Insight in data is not pure mathematical but rather visual and most understandable with opportunity to compare with theoretical data. Further, I have proposed pure vertical movement of pendulum and pump pivot (James Watt) in order to exclude "peculiar" movement of lever. What missing? Mechanism for automatic push of pendulum? Yes, but this will come when we learn, from measurement, how to do that in most efficient way.

This is proposals of superb machine for experimenting, getting real data and as much as possible from TSMO. Enough from me :)

Well, it is clear to me that neither Milkovic group nor many of free energy community members does not know how to measure input energy of TSMO. This is a main reason for overunity (???) reports. TSMO is NOT capable of overunity and overall efficiency is small. I have wrote about this earlier.

I have another proposal. We need only one such machine for experimenting and data collection. Lets do it together. I saw good construction with automatic push on youtube. This gentlemen is capable to do it and he already did it (according to other youtube videos). My construction is more versatile and gave more opportunity for parameter changing.
Let us unite our forces and make a real scientific project, on paper with all details, software writing and at the end, real machine. If we invest small amount of money (each of us) for parts and volunteer work we could have respectable machine and respectable data. Let start with small group of us dedicated to such project.
It will be FUN :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on February 07, 2014, 04:15:13 AM
I have another proposal. We need only one such machine for experimenting and data collection. Lets do it together. I saw good construction with automatic push on youtube. This gentlemen is capable to do it and he already did it (according to other youtube videos). My construction is more versatile and gave more opportunity for parameter changing.
Let us unite our forces and make a real scientific project, on paper with all details, software writing and at the end, real machine. If we invest small amount of money (each of us) for parts and volunteer work we could have respectable machine and respectable data. Let start with small group of us dedicated to such project.
It will be FUN :)

Nobody likes sharing? You like to make your beasts deep in a dungeon far away from curious eyes? OK  :)

Things for free are here http://www.overunity.com/14225/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-measurement-framework (http://www.overunity.com/14225/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-measurement-framework)  8)

Paolo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on February 07, 2014, 09:56:41 AM
When I get my new model together I wil try to do some of the measurements you propose. The weather is slowing me down a little, and I don't have money to buy expensive components. It has taken me well over a year to get all the stuff I have now. I have to take my time building, beause my last model did not work well from a poorly built frame. I will post progress, but do not expect to have it ready forr several weeks.
 Greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on February 07, 2014, 12:40:56 PM
When I get my new model together I wil try to do some of the measurements you propose. The weather is slowing me down a little, and I don't have money to buy expensive components. It has taken me well over a year to get all the stuff I have now. I have to take my time building, beause my last model did not work well from a poorly built frame. I will post progress, but do not expect to have it ready forr several weeks.
 Greg

Yes, Greg. Lack of money and time could be a great problems in this kind of endeavor.

Although I did not intend to make TSMO, this morning I decided to do it. This will be a table top TSMO from extruded aluminium profiles and plastic. It will be more as educational tool capable to give all information as any bigger TSMO due to powerful and sophisticated measuring equipment planed to use. The TSMO size will allow use of a cheaper force sensors chopped from Chinese kitchen scales, cheaper step motors, bearings, better and smaller trapezoidal tread for adjustment of lever ratio and length of pendulum rod. Scaling of such TSMO to bigger size will not be a problem.

I decided to make TSMO optimized for driving hand water pump. This means that TSMO should have full stroke and defined capacity within TSMO capabilities. Calculation of all parameters at suction and outlet of a pump (made of transparent plastic tubes) will define frequency of pendulum swing, the weight of the pendulum bob and control strategy as well.

I am also in lack of money and time but I have planed the task that is easier to do  8)
Development of a measurement framework is my main task as a contribution to free energy community.

Paolo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on February 28, 2014, 04:35:02 PM
It would be more important to look at those positive things that were done completely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n7mvpLpP5A
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on February 28, 2014, 09:52:36 PM
I like the water pump vid Mayo. I never really got a chance to finish my tsmo with diapraghm pump but I think it would work even better then this type of pump.
 Greg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PaoloGigli on March 11, 2014, 12:30:51 AM
It would be more important to look at those positive things that were done completely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n7mvpLpP5A

In the first video is a serious omission in representing the facts. Two stage pendulum oscillator is not a rigid system. This means that reference point for pendulum bob is not the lever pivot but pendulum pivot, and second, it is dynamical system, meaning that you could not use simple static proportion. Pendulum bob do not have any weight at maximum height because it is a point where bob change direction of motion. In that moment "hammer" on a opposite part of the lever goes down. With this in account the net energy represented as overunity will be zero in the best case (no loss in pivots and air drag).
It is indicative that part near the left side of the lever pivot was not described. Because of this part, left side of a lever could not drop down as it will do in a moments of pendulum maximum. We could assume that this exist in a pump like end of down stroke...

Second video is demonstration, only. Pump pull water from bottom of the vessel and deliver it less than meter high. There will be noticeable difference if a pump pull water from greater depth (needed heavier pendulum bob)...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 12, 2014, 06:31:28 PM
related research:

Gravitational Motors (GM's) 1983-2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ArpYL2iviI

This story began in 1983.

In this video it is shows almost all of the tests performed with Gravitational Motor's (GM's) between the years 1983 and 2013.

Altogether 19 prototypes and a few more 32 variants were built.

Most tests were destructive (we had total loss of the device), the goal was to find the best geometry.

The GM-06 is the only one that remains operational.

Almost all the GM's lost weight being the most efficient GM-12 (the last one picture), which lost 17% of his weight, wherein the wheels have an inclination of 51º.

Information as an GM works, as well as guidance on how you can build a Perpetual Motor ("PM") will be available at:

www.quantumgravity.us

Still will be presented other forms of symmetry breaking with which we can build a PM.

Rolf Guthmann
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 14, 2014, 11:09:48 PM
Bedini powered two stage mechanical (by John54day)
This is the test of using a bedini type circuit to power a two stage osscilator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndQqLFoG-dQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 14, 2014, 11:11:09 PM
related research...

Gravity pendulums
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXmsu00sKcs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 20, 2014, 02:16:42 PM
Pendulum set up (by John54day)
This is the test set up showing some details. The weight is 3 kg. The battery show a standing charge of 12.45. Under load it is only drawn down to 12.30. And then it stays there for over 20 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdaA2io3sGU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 22, 2014, 01:36:20 PM
latest from R.Head

180 Degree escapement for TSO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNqm431Sbig

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 22, 2014, 05:26:07 PM
from R.Head again...

verg and Foliot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8hnr-Wv8J4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 09, 2014, 02:18:51 PM
from R.Head...

verg and Foliot update

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NItxXmFayAc 

verg and Foliot update #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp4K-EwNjrM

verg and Foliot update #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuXQbWzzU7w
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 09, 2014, 03:24:00 PM
1. Two Stage Osciilator (by free franny)

first stages of milkovics pendulum replication attempt. I am going forward to power this mechanically and settle in my mind whether or not it can be looped. SARCASTIC COMMENTS ARE NOT APPRECIATED. Critically helpful comments are. Remember, in the very unlikely and somewhat remote possibility that this device demonstrates efficiency over 100% the device is only a mining tool of the energy already existing within gravitational pull. Also, a note for those who would want to comment critically or sarcastically, the first and second laws of thermodynamics are explanations for what we observe, as is most of science. If you observe a phenomenon that these laws do not and cannot explain, why wet your pants about it? It does not mean that what we are observing does not exist, it only means that we are scientifically immature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e21-3evsDGE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e21-3evsDGE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 17, 2014, 05:13:45 PM
from R.Head...

Verg and foliot iimprovments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EzPANGVAUY

DIY 180 degree verg and foliot power wheel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygcW5yo9hNE

DIY 180 degree verg and foliot Axle push bars 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzEhK88_yg0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 11, 2014, 01:14:20 PM
from R.Head...

DIY 180 degree New verg and foliot up date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zN1W-zPNxE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 11, 2014, 01:17:29 PM
2. Two Stage Oscillator -escapement idea (by free franny)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkT4Jpbv75s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 13, 2014, 02:07:57 PM
from R.Head...

I am hoping this video will help those trying to build a TSO, not to make the same mistakes I did. AND explain the workings , a little better to my subscribers. So they can have a better understanding of what I am doing and WHY. This July , 15th , 2014 I will turn 70 years old and all my life I have heard this story About that guy that did this and this guy that did that AND it worked . "BUT" he died and never told his secret. and the so called knowledge was lost. " I F " The TSO is not over unity . It still has practical uses BEWOND the imagination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZGQpg7WfHo

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 22, 2014, 06:35:23 PM
A documentary film on Veljko Milkovic's pendulum research work by Zeljko Savic

"We Are Proving Impossible!" (2014)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZMRTnUE7UM

(... with an English narrator)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 07, 2014, 04:12:04 PM


New Milkovic's TSO replica:


Two Stage Oscillator - Bicycle pump
Testing TSO as a pump
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upZvqoSPS_M
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 15, 2014, 10:42:48 PM
new video from R.Head:

New TSO update
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqGb24YoyM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on June 16, 2014, 09:38:28 AM
new video from R.Head:

New TSO update
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqGb24YoyM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqGb24YoyM)

see the pic

if you put water in the glass , this is a perpetual movement

can you do better with your double pendulum ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 19, 2014, 01:33:50 AM
Two-stage oscillator replica by Luiz Fellipe Mello Salomon

Milkovic Two Stage Oscillator Pendulum - Overview of the machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWqhFPax8i4

Oscillator with no mass on bob, in equilibrium.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XxupblYPts

Two way lever oscillator -Lever Equilibrium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlDazSuYDgM

Lever in equilibrium and mass making "fake" work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hviOEDZKqw

Ratchet System for converting energy the way it should.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztyT21h3N_A

Two way oscillator - Comparison between workable and non-workable mass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVpzs9NX1RE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: LibreEnergia on June 19, 2014, 03:40:15 AM
Two-stage oscillator replica by Luiz Fellipe Mello Salomon

Two way oscillator - Comparison between workable and non-workable mass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVpzs9NX1RE

It should be obvious from watching this video that a TSO does not produce over-unity.

Conservation of energy , mass and momentum... its the 'law'.

The only thing I find remarkable about this device is how it has fooled so many people for so long.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on June 19, 2014, 06:38:55 AM

The only thing I find remarkable about this device is how it has fooled so many people for so long.

yes , with so basic physics !! LOL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 30, 2014, 10:55:39 PM
from veljkomilkovic.com:

Official measurement by University of Novi Sad, Serbia

Measurement: Flexible Pendulum vs. Electric Motor
A laboratory proof of the superiority of the flexible pendulum versus the electric motor

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Measurement_flexible_pendulum_vs._electric_motor.pdf

+ demonstrations described in the measurement report can be watched in the following documentary:

"We Are Proving Impossible!" (2014)
A documentary film on Veljko Milkovic's pendulum research work by Zeljko Savic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZMRTnUE7UM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 06, 2014, 07:46:02 PM
Perpetual Pendulum by VEProject1 (=Fakers) (http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Perpetual_Pendulum_by_VEProject1) - As a pendulum swings, the top portion of it contains a curved channel with a ball in it that counter-weighs the swinging pendulum, appearing to keep it in motion. Does this really work, or is there trickery involved? (PESWiki; June 28, 2014)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 31, 2014, 12:39:49 PM
Pendulum Water Pump (Philippines)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONgcf1a9PfE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 16, 2014, 08:02:26 PM
New videos from R.Head:

escapement improvments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1RbpflZ8RU

TSO problems to avoid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuFXvJbkviA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 12, 2014, 02:45:32 PM
 http://www.overunity.com/7443/closing-the-loop-on-milkovics-two-stage-mechanical-oscillator/ (http://www.overunity.com/7443/closing-the-loop-on-milkovics-two-stage-mechanical-oscillator/)
Start from reply 21…
 
In analyzing the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum as shown on youtube:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8)
 
 We noted that after 2.30 minutes, a single push by the hand will lift the weight twice. On close examination, the lifting of the Weight appeared to be when the pendulum bob is swinging with the maximum velocity at the vertical position.

In Physics, work is done (energy is spent) only when there is displacement.  In this case, the output is the lifting of the weight.

 
 It should now be clear to all experimenters that any overunity measurement or loopback mechanism MUST be done at large angles when the weight is actually lifted.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on September 12, 2014, 04:10:32 PM
 Hi 888 !
Why not to play the largest possible angle ? ( inverted pendulum ).
 Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on September 12, 2014, 07:20:20 PM

 Hi 888 !
Why not to play the largest possible angle ? ( starting as a free inverted pendulum ).
 Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 13, 2014, 12:33:08 AM
 
Hi 888 !
 Why not to play the largest possible angle ? ( starting as a free inverted pendulum ).
 Al_ex
 
@Al_ex,
The largest possible angle will be the next stage.  In the next stage, the pendulum will be replaced by an unbalanced wheel.
 
At this stage, it is only necessary to show that the Input Energy by the fingers is less than the Output Energy as shown by the lifting of the Weight (twice).  Success at this stage will indicate overunity.  Note that the electromagnet can be placed in a fixed position to repel the magnetic pendulum bob when it rises to the exact position.  The Weight to be lifted and/or the lever arm can be adjusted so that the system is in balance (or in resonance).  This means that the process can be repeated exactly with the pulsing of the electromagnet to provide Input Energy.  That Input Energy plus the Lead-out Energy will provide the Output Energy in lifting the Weight and overcome friction and air resistance.
The large setup in the video or similar is a good candidate for the experiment.
 
I attached the figure showing the large angle to do such an experiment.  Has any experimenter used such large angles?

 
The tension of the pendulum string does the magic twice – leads-out gravitational energy during the push and lifts the Weight with centripetal force when the velocity is highest.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: markdansie on September 13, 2014, 04:48:28 AM
Hi 888
I admire you tenacity and good nature in your pursuit of free energy or overunity. I also find your posts entertaining. However is in not time to do some reflection on your claims, theories and assumptions made over the years that have always never panned out? Perhaps with a review you may see some common areas with miscalculations, misleading assumptions and incorrect conclusions. This may prove to be very valuable by learning from past mistakes in order to assist you in your endeavors in the future. Otherwise we are just faced with the usual garbage in garbage out.
Never stop, I encourage you and everyone else, but sit back and learn from past mistakes.
Kind Regards
Mark Dansie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 13, 2014, 06:40:05 AM
Hi 888
I admire you tenacity and good nature in your pursuit of free energy or overunity. I also find your posts entertaining. However is in not time to do some reflection on your claims, theories and assumptions made over the years that have always never panned out? Perhaps with a review you may see some common areas with miscalculations, misleading assumptions and incorrect conclusions. This may prove to be very valuable by learning from past mistakes in order to assist you in your endeavors in the future. Otherwise we are just faced with the usual garbage in garbage out.
Never stop, I encourage you and everyone else, but sit back and learn from past mistakes.
Kind Regards
Mark Dansie
http://www.alternate-energy.net/Dvid/view.php?video=ArX7BDY1XRM&title=The+225+HP+Pulse+Motor (http://www.alternate-energy.net/Dvid/view.php?video=ArX7BDY1XRM&title=The+225+HP+Pulse+Motor)
 
I posted that video in 2006.  That pulse motor was from USA and I explained its operation at Tsinghua University.  I also explained the Energy Multiplier from Tsinghua using the Lead-out energy theory.  I was investigated as a US spy when I returned to Hong Kong.
 
Now I have grounds to believe that Pulse Motor was real and used in Army Tanks in China!  I shall review my theory and calculations.  Since I already have a work bench at Overunityresearch.com, I shall put the updates there.  Those who want to see the reviews and check the calulations can visit that site.  No comments are allowed at that site but those who want to comment can post here or in a new thread.
 
The large Milkovic 2 stage pendulum video convinced me that if we treat the finger push as Input and the twice lifting of the Weight as Output, we should have Output > Input.  My old mathematical treatment of this pendulum was wrong as it did not consider the moments correctly.  I shall revise that.
 
God Bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on September 13, 2014, 01:44:18 PM

if we treat the finger push as Input

and the twice lifting of the Weight as Output



"the finger push as Input" = force x distance moved

"the twice lifting of the Weight as Output" = m x g x h   (twice)

The fact that the weight's potential energy is not saved, but reverts to some noise and heat when it descends makes no difference. I am sure this is right.

The weight's PE needs to be saved and made to do useful work by some means.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 13, 2014, 02:28:32 PM

"the finger push as Input" = force x distance moved

"the twice lifting of the Weight as Output" = m x g x h   (twice)

The fact that the weight's potential energy is not saved, but reverts to some noise and heat when it descends makes no difference. I am sure this is right.

The weight's PE needs to be saved and made to do useful work by some means.
@Paul-R,
 
For the first stage experiment, we just compare the Input Energy with the Output energy.  The Output energy dissipated as noise is acceptable.  The video makes it very convincing that Input Energy is less than Output Energy.  We just need to confirm it with more scientific measurements.
 
The best point from the video is that overunity can only be demonstrated at large angles with such setup....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on September 13, 2014, 03:11:14 PM
     Hi. 888 !
Let's make the simplest test.
We can take out an inverted pendulum , from :
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pendulum#/image/File:Cart-pendulum.svg
...and replace the hanging pendulum ( red mass ) with this one ( as a starting position ) , at :
http://u2.lege.net/John_Keely/keelytech.com/news/oscillations/secondary.gif
I suppose that , we can  play in this manner , a different kind of motion...maybe erratic swinging ( see swinging sticks model...) , maybe a surprising one.
      Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on September 13, 2014, 05:27:22 PM
The video makes it very convincing that Input Energy is less than Output Energy.
I don't think it is safe to conclude this. It takes very little energy to  make a very loud bang. I think  work  needs to be done to  quantify the output rigorously.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 13, 2014, 06:21:26 PM
     Hi. 888 !
Let's make the simplest test.
We can take out an inverted pendulum , from :
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pendulum#/image/File:Cart-pendulum.svg (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pendulum#/image/File:Cart-pendulum.svg)
...and replace the hanging pendulum ( red mass ) with this one ( as a starting position ) , at :
http://u2.lege.net/John_Keely/keelytech.com/news/oscillations/secondary.gif (http://u2.lege.net/John_Keely/keelytech.com/news/oscillations/secondary.gif)
I suppose that , we can  play in this manner , a different kind of motion...maybe erratic swinging ( see swinging sticks model...) , maybe a surprising one.
      Al_ex
The mathematical analysis and the experiments will be based on the attached diagram with reference to the video in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8)
 
The first simplification will use P as horizontal.  The final will use P as tangential.  The tension in the string will be the sum of the static force and the centripetal force due to circular motion.  Expect overunity only at large angles from both analysis and experiment.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 14, 2014, 12:00:10 AM
One question raised by a Chinese Experimenter:
 
Must I build a large 2-stage Milkovic Oscillator to detect or confirm overunity?  Can I build a small model in the laboratory?
 
Answer: When we first pulse the pendulum, the Weight W1 will not rise at all.  The Input Energy and Lead-out Energy are all used to increase the amplitude of the Swing.  After sufficient build-up, the Weight W1 can be lifted (twice).  Output can then be easily measured.  The pulsing energy (Pd) is very small.  Thus a large 2-stage Milkovic Oscillator is needed to provide a large enough (Pd) for experiment.
 
Even after the Weight W1 is lifted, there is likely to be some tuning to achieve best results.  The adjustment can be via changing the mass of W1 or the Lever Arm L1.  Too small a model will not permit such tuning.
 
This answer is likely to apply to the Pulse Motor later on.  The wheel should be large or multiple coupled wheels like the 225 HP motor needs to be used.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 14, 2014, 11:56:55 PM
One comment:
The OUTPUT Energy of the Milkovic 2-stage pendulum is NOT the W1 times g times the total height.  The swinging lever is an oscillating system (seesaw).  That oscillating system also converts potential energy into kinetic energy and vice versa. 
 
What should be the correct OUTPUT Energy?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 15, 2014, 02:33:22 PM
 After examining the video carefully, it is found that the Weight W1 is lifted when the pendulum bob swings at maximum velocity. At this position, the Tension of the String will be the sum of the pendulum bob W2 x g and the extra force due to circular motion (Centrifugal or centripetal force).
 
The heavier weight W1 (74 pounds) can be lifted by the smaller weight of the pendulum bob (46 pounds).  The Lever Arms L1 appear to larger or equal to L2.  The anti-clockwise moment due to the Weight W1 time L1 initially is definitely greater.  But after build-up, the centrifugal force plus the weight of the pendulum bob will provide a Tension much larger than 74 pounds.
 
The Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory considers the pulling up of the Weight W1 as Lead-out gravitational energy.  The lever system moves or rotates clockwise resulting in lifting of the Weight W1.  Lead-out energy comes at this stage.  Some energy transfer takes place as the pivot of the pendulum goes down but this energy is gained back later.
 
Thus the design of an efficient  overunity Milkovic system requires:
1.    Pendulum Bob Weight should be less than W1.
2.    Pendulum length should be large to get high velocity to provide Centrifugal force.
3.    L1 should be greater or equal to L2 to provide an initial larger anti-clockwise moment.
(The video helps to provide such insights.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on September 15, 2014, 05:23:46 PM
One comment:
The OUTPUT Energy of the Milkovic 2-stage pendulum is NOT the W1 times g times the total height.  The swinging lever is an oscillating system (seesaw).  That oscillating system also converts potential energy into kinetic energy and vice versa. 
 
What should be the correct OUTPUT Energy?
The oscillating system simply ports the energy from PE to KE. No significant loss or gain.

The output mass could contain a coil (moving) with a magnet (static). The coil could be connected to a variable resistor, submerged in water, whose consequent temperature rise could be measured.

As the resistance is lowered, the current increases, heat absorbed increases and therefore the output power will be seen to increase and will be recorded.  The distance moved by the mass will be decreasing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 15, 2014, 10:55:42 PM
Initially, the lever system has no oscillation as the anti-clockwise moment of W1 and L1 is larger.
 
 
 
Then the amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum gets larger, the Tension in the string gets higher because of the higher velocity at the lowest point.
 
 
 
“Suddenly”, the clockwise moment of the pendulum side is larger.  The Weight W1 will be lifted.  Work is done.  Energy goes to the Lever System.  Energy of the Lever System can be regarded as (W1 x g x h’) where h’ is the higher of the height raised.
 
 
 
The Pulsing energy (Pd) can remain the same.  It will not impart energy to the lever system until the “critical angle”.  At the “critical angle”, the entire lever system energy (W1 x g x h’) appeared.
 
 
 
If we regard the INPUT energy as Pd and the OUTPUT energy as (W1 x g x h’), we can easily get overunity.  A 12 time figure is within the possibility.
 
 
 
The observation is that the pendulum system itself is hardly affected with such a “transfer of energy”.  Where does such energy come from?  One possible explanation is Lead-out Energy.  Gravitational energy is brought-in.
 
We can use the brought-in gravitational energy at the lever system.  This will be replenished again by subsequent bringing-in of gravitational energy again!
 
 
 
In conclusion, the varying Tension of the Pendulum String does the magic in two ways:
 
1.    Lead-out some gravitational energy during each pulse.
 
2.    Lead-out more gravitational energy in one big splash after build-up when the clockwise moment is higher.
 
 
 
Divine Revelation?
 
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on September 15, 2014, 11:38:14 PM
I can't take this anymore.  The lead-out theory is total hogwash.  No legitimate/recognized scientific or academic group has ever validated the theory to be true.  In all the years of pushing the theory, not one working device has ever been put on display, and no proof of free energy gain from string tension has ever been demonstrated.

In a two stage oscillator, the pendulum swings due to gravity just as the mathematics predicts.  Centrifugal force of the swinging pendulum bob is responsible for the raising of the counter weight, and nothing else.  Any serious 2SO investigator would know this to be true.  Simple potential to kinetic energy conversion and centrifugal force is all that is going on here, all easily confirmed using accepted physics theory and mathematics.

Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh to say the theory is hogwash, but it hasn't been proven, and to claim the 2SO functions because of it is total hogwash.  Prove the theory first.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 16, 2014, 03:11:38 AM
I can't take this anymore.  The lead-out theory is total hogwash.  No legitimate/recognized scientific or academic group has ever validated the theory to be true.  In all the years of pushing the theory, not one working device has ever been put on display, and no proof of free energy gain from string tension has ever been demonstrated.

In a two stage oscillator, the pendulum swings due to gravity just as the mathematics predicts.  Centrifugal force of the swinging pendulum bob is responsible for the raising of the counter weight, and nothing else.  Any serious 2SO investigator would know this to be true.  Simple potential to kinetic energy conversion and centrifugal force is all that is going on here, all easily confirmed using accepted physics theory and mathematics.

Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh to say the theory is hogwash, but it hasn't been proven, and to claim the 2SO functions because of it is total hogwash.  Prove the theory first.
The 225 HP posted in reply 2190 is PROOF already.  Both USA and China Military have similar pulse engines.  A lot of debunkers were paid to discredit it. 
Scientifically, if the energy of the lever system were provided by the pendulum system, the pendulum system should show a marked decrease in energy.  That should be a sudden decrease in the amplitude of oscillation.  The video clearly showed that it is NOT the case.  Energy must come from somewhere else.  Gravitational Energy is Lead-out - one possible explanation.
 
The book by Jovan Marjanovic is worth reading even though I do not agree with all the points.
Quote:
Basic Principles of Over Unity
Electromagnetic Machines
A Scientific View into the World of Free
Energy from Electric Charges and
Magnetic Fields
by Jovan Marjanovic, M.Sc.
Johann W. Goethe said that the biggest secrets
were the open ones. You look at them but you do
not see them
. The same is true with the
electromagnetic field. It is known fact that after
switching off an electromagnet, its magnetic
energy will be returned back to the circuit,
usually as a spark. What was missed is the fact
that the magnetic energy performed work by
attraction of an iron bar and didn’t consume
itself. This work, minus heat losses inside the
circuit, is free energy or over unity energy.

The goal of this book is to unlock the secrets of over unity and to teach people what is over
unity and how it works. The reader will learn basic ideas of making new ultra efficient
electric motors and generators and how to improve existing patents which use permanent
magnets.
More information and ordering
http://books.veljkomilkovic.com (http://books.veljkomilkovic.com)

We have all seen the video many times.  Only recently, I realized that the lever system energy appeared suddenly - with no apparent change in energy of the pendulum system (no significant amplitude change).  Energy must come from elsewhere.  Traditional Physics could not explain that.  If the total energy is conserved with no outside energy coming in - the pendulum system must lose some energy.  The amplitude MUST decrease significantly.
Johann W. Goethe said that the biggest secrets
were the open ones. You look at them but you do
not see them
.
 
Hopefuly, the Divine One opened my eyes this time - after 10 years!

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on September 16, 2014, 11:09:18 AM
      Hi !
Let's make a short history :
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadoof (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadoof)


http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/images/3001as22.jpg (http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/images/3001as22.jpg)


www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html)

We cannot escape history...so, we must go back for primary information...
      Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on September 16, 2014, 04:01:39 PM
Ok ltseung888 I will give the theory another look.  I did some math work on it a year or so ago and found something that seemed to strange to believe and I will share with you soon.  This is why don't give the theory much credit.  I will recreate the mathematical model to make sure I didn't make any mistakes.

For your information, I have built and studied several 2SO over the last 10 years.  I have complete mathematical models and the 2SO behave exactly as traditional mathematics/physics predicts.  Including the production of excess energy, but that is for a later post.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 16, 2014, 05:31:01 PM
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf)
  In that article, Mr. Jovan Marjanovic actually reproduced some information on the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory including the diagrams and calculations.   However, he made the following comment:
***
 
  The problem with the last statement that “2 parts of horizontal energy leads out one
part of vertical energy” is this: Horizontal energy has been spent by doing horizontal
work in order to push pendulum up. Once pendulum is up it has some potential energy.
Only way to use that potential energy is to allow pendulum to swing back into low position.
The work done that way would be one part. This means that two parts were spent in order
to have one part back. This is like investing two dollars and getting back only one (not as
interest, but as principal). This would be excellent way to a bankruptcy.
   
 ***
 
He made the mistake of assuming that horizontal energy has been spent in doing horizontal work (and dissipated?)  The horizontal force actually increased the tension of the Pendulum string and the energy is retained in the Pendulum system,  May be someday he and I can discuss such technical points face-to-face.
 
 
From reading his published information, I believe he also looked but failed to see.  (It took me 10 years to see!)  When the weight W1 was lifted “suddenly”, energy goes to the lever system.  If the energy is from the pendulum system, the amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum should suddenly decrease.  Experimental evidence from the video showed no such decrease.
 
Energy must come from elsewhere.  The Lee-Tseung Theory proposes that gravitational energy is brought-in at this point via the increased tension in the string.
 
If gravitational energy can be brought-in via oscillating systems, magnetic and electromagnetic energy MUST be able to be brought-in…..
 
The 225 HP Pulse Motor is not a hoax.  It is a scientific certainty.  The Military from USA and China both want to keep it a secret.  But how long can they keep this secret?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 16, 2014, 05:39:36 PM
Ok ltseung888 I will give the theory another look.  I did some math work on it a year or so ago and found something that seemed too strange to believe and I will share with you soon.  This is why don't give the theory much credit.  I will recreate the mathematical model to make sure I didn't make any mistakes.

For your information, I have built and studied several 2SO over the last 10 years.  I have complete mathematical models and the 2SO behave exactly as traditional mathematics/physics predicts.  Including the production of excess energy, but that is for a later post.
Please focus on "why the pendulum amplitude does not suddenly decrease" ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on September 16, 2014, 06:23:30 PM
ltseung888

I know exactly why the pendulum behaves as it does, but I am not about to say, as it is the reason the 2SO is a valid energy producer.  All I will say is everyone is overlooking a key principle of force and motion.  Hands on experimentation with a 2SO is the only way to move forward, and even then, the principle can be missed as is the case with Raymond Head.  The Milkovic style 2SO should only be a starting point in your work, and will lead to an improved design if all goes well.

Again I say to everyone, traditional mathematics/physics accurately predicts all movements of the 2SO as well as its energy gains and losses.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 17, 2014, 01:58:37 PM
 Let us focus on the Seesaw system in the video.

The Weight W1 was 74 pounds.  The Pendulum bob W2 was 46 pounds.

Let us assume L1 is equal to L2.  From the video, L1 may be longer than L2.  In no motion state, the anti-clockwise moment is 74 x L1 and the clockwise moment is 46 x L2.   Anti-clockwise is much larger and the Weight W1 will not move.
 
When the centrifugal force (Fc) is large enough, (W2+Fc) x L2 can provide greater clockwise moment to lift the weight.
 
In the seesaw as shown in the diagram, the potential energy gained by W1 is W1 x g x h.  One can argue that the potential energy loss by W2 is W2 x g x h.  There is a net gain of (W1-W2) x g x h or (74-46) x g x h or 28 x g x h units.
 
Where does this energy come from?  It comes from Tension of the String.  This energy is used to raise the Weight W1.  The Lee-Tseung lead-out theory argues that this is the Lead-out Gravitational energy.  This amount of energy is brought-in to the system.  This additional energy makes the Milkovic 2 stage Pendulum shown in the video Overunity.   (An example of a Lead-out Energy Machine.)
 
Not every 2SO system is overunity.  If W1 is less than W2, we do not have a net gain of potential energy.  If L1 is shorter than L2, we may not have net gain of potential energy.
 
In the video, the Weight W1 is actually lifted and this work can be attributed to Gravity.  Traditionally, we can use gravitational energy continuously in form of Tidal motion.  Now we can use gravitational energy lead-out in the Milkovic 2SO system as shown!
 
Cheers to Milkovic, Raymond Head and all the contributors.  They all look (at the video) but how many can see (that the system is already an overunity device).  The greatest secret is now revealed.
 
God Bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 17, 2014, 07:20:19 PM
 The Impact of “seeing that gravitational energy can be led-out or brought-in by oscillating systems such as the Milkovic 2 stage Pendulum”.
1.     It should now be clear to many who looked at the video that the energy of the lever or seesaw system is NOT transferred from the pendulum system.
2.    The raising of the Weight W1 is done via the increased Tension of the pendulum string.  The increased Tension is a “free” consequence of the oscillation of the Pendulum.
3.    The increased Tension raised the Weight W1.  That energy can be regarded as Gravitational Energy.
4.    The Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory treats that as Lead-out or bring-in energy.  The Input energy plus this Lead-out energy should be regarded as providing the total energy to any system.
5.    If Gravitational Energy can be lead-out, Magnetic Energy must be able to be lead-out.  The reason is that we can always use a permanent magnet as the pendulum bob and place other permanent magnets to increase the attraction.  With magnets, we can also use repulsion, shielding, change direction and strength of the magnetic field.
6.    The pendulum system can be replaced with an unbalanced wheel with the added advantage that the period of oscillation is not governed by the length of the string but by the speed of rotation.
7.    Pulse force on a balanced wheel where the rotational energy is extracted has similar characteristics of an unbalanced wheel.  A constant rotation flywheel can store energy.  Pulse motors such as 225 HP, Bedini etc can lead-out electromagnetic energy.
8.    No moving part machines with flux changes only via electric circuits can theoretically lead-out electromagnetic energy.
9.    Electromagnetic energy is associated with the Electron Cloud Energy surrounding atoms and molecules.  Using such energy is akin to using chemical energy.
10.                       Getting zero point energy is no longer abstract.  The thermal energy at absolute zero degrees may be nil.  But there are always gravitational, electromagnetic energies from the many stars and planets.  Now we can use such energies.
11.                       Alternate Energy research and development will become respectable.  The Milkovic 2-stage pendulum is likely to be replicated and treated as a standard teaching tool at all Universities.  Milkovic is likely (and deservedly) to win the Nobel Prize.
12.                       Governments will pour in millions or billions of dollars in such research.  Products will no longer be national secrets.  For example, the 225 HP Pulse Motor will be made available to the General Public.  The energy crisis is over.  China (Hong Kong) is likely to become the Mecca of Alternate Energy Research?

How many who have been Looking can now See?  Is the great secret revealed?  Do I need to post more?
 
Divine Revelation?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 19, 2014, 12:03:42 AM
Simple but conclusive experiment to show that Tension increases with oscillation amplitude.
 
If increased Tension is reponsible for lifting the weight W1, where does the energy come from?
 
Any model must answer this question!
 
Have you been looking?  Can you see now?
 
Divine Revealation opened my eyes after 10 years.  The great Open Secret is explained.  The Milkovic 2SO is a clear example of Lead-out energy.  Gravitational Energy is brought into the system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 19, 2014, 11:06:43 AM
 I just finished a good meeting with an overunity energy researcher in Hong Kong.  He sees the workings of the Milkovic 2SO now and knows why a large prototype such as that from Raymond Head is necessary.
 
He said: “Centrifugal force depends on v*v.  The higher the velocity, the better will be the prototype in leading out gravitational energy.  Most experimenters scale down linearly.  No wonder thousands of experimenters cannot see.”
 
He continued: “If you cannot get the 225 HP Pulse motor from USA or China (for demonstration), you can try those recommended by Sterling Allan.  Just pay. (You are too old to build any prototype yourself.  He was polite.)
 
From Sterling D. Allan site:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page)
Prototype Product from Russia:
http://mes50hz.ru/index_en.php (http://mes50hz.ru/index_en.php)
Prototype Product from Turkey:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:EKA_Elektirik_%28Electric%29_QMoGen_in_Turkey (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:EKA_Elektirik_%28Electric%29_QMoGen_in_Turkey)
Prototype Product from Quanta Magnetics
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2014:08:30#G1.27s_Gyroscopic_Resonant_Inertia_Pulse_Motor_Generator (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2014:08:30#G1.27s_Gyroscopic_Resonant_Inertia_Pulse_Motor_Generator)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 20, 2014, 11:35:11 AM
 Extracted from Patrick Kelly’s Book:
 
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter4.pdf (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter4.pdf)
 
As there is excess energy, there appears to be no reason why it should not be made self-sustaining by feeding back some of the excess energy to maintain the movement. A very simple modification to do this could be:
 
 Figure 4 – 25 (attached)
 
Here, the main beam A, is exactly balanced when weight B is hanging motionless in it’s “at-rest” position. When weight B is set swinging, it causes beam A to oscillate, providing much greater power at point C due to the much greater mass of beam A. If an additional, lightweight beam D is provided and counterbalanced by weight E, so that it has a very light upward pressure on its movement stop F, then the operation should be self-sustaining.

For this, the positions are adjusted so that when point C moves to its lowest point, it just nudges beam D slightly downwards. At this moment in time, weight B is at its closest to point C and about to start swinging away to the left again. Beam D being nudged downwards causes its tip to push weight B just enough to maintain its swinging. If weight B has a mass of “W” then point C of beam A has a downward thrust of 12W on Veljko’s working model. As the energy required to move beam D slightly is quite small, the majority of the 12W thrust remains for doing additional useful work such as operating a pump.

*** For all his knowledge and insight, Patrick Kelly may also be looking and not seeing.  His comments and improvements are always to be admired.  Will someone inform him of this great secret?  All his work is well justified.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 20, 2014, 09:00:06 PM
How much gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in in the Raymond Head implementation of the Milkovic 2SO?
 
The answer lies in the actual design and tuning.  In conventional systems, Output is strongly dependent on Input.  In Lead-out Energy Machines, Output is also dependent on how much energy is lead-out or brought-in.
 
In the discussed 2SO, the Output Energy is shown by the raised height of W1.  The Output energy is used to produce the loud sound – useful in a demonstration device.  That Output Energy can be treated in the form of potential energy (W1 x g x h).  For maximum Output, we should have the largest W1 and the largest h.  Raymond Head achieved this via a pendulum with a long string.  If he reduced W1, W1 would still be lifted to the same height.  The demonstrated Output would be less.
 
The height lifted is likely to be totally dependent on L1.  Thus some tuning in adjusting the weight to get maximum Output is needed.  He could have increased L1 and L2 proportionally to get a higher h. In other words, he could have doubled L1 and L2 without changing the relative moments.  However, the resultant h will be higher than the 1-1.5 inches (more than 2 inches) - making the demonstration even more impressive.
Can it be this simple in leading out more gravitational energy?
 
The Input Energy is Pd (Push force x displacement).  The bring-in gravitational energy is a variable.  Thus the Output Energy is also variable.  The claim that Output Energy can be 12 times Input Energy may be possible if the difference in energy (Output - Input) were Lead-out Energy.
 
Most of the desktop replications are not likely to achieve such a high COP because of the low centripetal or centrifugal force.
 
One obvious suggestion is to increase the centrifugal force via higher rotational speeds.  The pendulum can be replaced by an unbalanced wheel.  This will be the subject of another post.
 
Divine revelation?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 21, 2014, 01:40:03 AM
Loopback mechanism for the Milkovic 2SO should be designed after the maximum gravitational energy has been brought-in.
 
This means large systems.  Both the pendulum length, the lever arms should be long.  W1 should be greater than W2.  L1 should be greater than L2.
 
Are the replicators here and elsewhere aware of such design principles?  I personally would treat any desktop loopback device as a waste of time...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 21, 2014, 10:42:17 AM
Just finished a long lunch meeting with old friends from the Hong Kong Invention Club.

Discussed the Milkovic 2SO implemented by Raymond Head.

One comment: "We saw this years ago.  You displayed much mathematics afterwards.  If you had given the explanation as you have done, we would have understood and supported you."

Tseung: "I looked and did not see at that time.  How much do you think we need to spend to reproduce the Raymond Head prototype?"

Inventor: "Depends on whom you ask to do the implementation.  The material cost may be around HK$10,000.  If I were to build it and guarantee similar results, the price is likely to be HK$100,000."
Tseung: "A University source quoted HK$350,000.  I suppose the consulting fees of the Professors are substantial.  A sweat engineering shop in China may ask for HK$50,000."

Inventor: "It is the follow-up that matters.  The Tong Wheel that could generate 1 HP is seeking investors.  It is self-looped and has been running for some time.  Other similar prototypes are available for demonstration in Hong Kong.  There is no need to get permission from the Chinese Government to show the 225 HP pulse motor."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 21, 2014, 06:30:42 PM
Comparing Pendulum and Unbalanced Wheel.
 
If Pendulum in 2SO fashion can bring-in gravitational energy, Unbalanced Wheel will be able to do the same.  For swing angle < 90 degrees, the mathematics is identical.
 
Possible variations:
1. Swing angle greater than 90 degrees.
2. Stronger pulse can achieve higher rotational veocity and hence greater centrifugal force.
3. Period of oscillation no longer solely depends on Pendulum length.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 21, 2014, 08:16:11 PM
 An unbalanced wheel rotating at non-uniform speeds can lead-out gravitational energy.
 
The gravitational energy is brought-in via a lever mechanism.
   
If another rotational mechanism is at the L1 end, will this mechanism have more energy than that to rotate the unbalanced wheel?

 
Can a bright engineer re-design the Bessler Wheel now?
   
Are the Energy Multiplier Machines at Tsinghua University and the device by the Blind Peru Scientist, F. M. Chalkalis, scientific realities?
   
What mechanisms (other than lever) can be used to do similar lead-out gravitational energy work?
 
 
Divine Revelation?
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 21, 2014, 11:42:16 PM
Is it possible that the patent offices around the world have classified many legitimate lead-out energy machines as impossible perpetual motiom machines and rejected them?
Our Lee-Tseung PCT application was rejected on such grounds.  (The Milkovic 2SO was likely to be rejected if Milkovic claimed that it was an overunity machine.)
What are the legal consequences if the once rejected patents are found to be legitimate?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 22, 2014, 01:01:23 PM
 Let me be bold and design the loopback mechanism for a 2SO with an unbalanced wheel.
 
Referring to the diagram in reply 2210, there are a few things to note:
1.    If the weight W2 were initially at position 1, very little force and energy is needed to start it rotating.
2.    If there were no frictional loss etc, the unbalanced wheel will complete a full revolution and be back at position 1.
3.    The centrifugal force will be even stronger than the pendulum with a large angle.  More gravitational energy can be lead-out.
4.    The W1 side can be a crankshaft to get to a rotational motion.  This rotational motion is mainly driven or maintained by the lead-out gravitational energy.
5.    The rotational energy of the unbalanced wheel is hardly affected as none if any is extracted or transferred to rotate the crankshaft.
6.    A Belt or Chain mechanism can be used to feed energy from the rotation in 4 back to rotate the unbalanced wheel.
7.    If needed, a flywheel can be introduced to “store” the lead-out gravitational energy.
8.    If properly designed, there should be extra energy to light some light bulbs and/or turn a fan. 
9.    The unbalanced wheel needs very little energy to maintain its rotation but the high centrifugal force will be generated.
10.                       Once started, the system will run forever but it is NOT the impossible perpetual motion machine.  It is a great example of the Lead-out energy machine.
11.                       We can lead-out gravitational energy to use continuously.  The Physics and Mathematics support it.  It is standard, conventional Physics obeying every known Law.  It is just that all the scientists looked at it but could not see it.
 
I have a 99% confidence factor that such a loopback mechanism will work.  Who is willing to do the experiment (and claim the overunity prize)?  Paying HK$350,000 to have this done at one of the Universities in Hong Kong is worth it.  (The Hong Kong and Chinese Governments are likely to pour in billions once this is demonstrated.)
 
You are welcome to inform your Governments. Lead-out or Bring-in Energy is respectable.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 22, 2014, 11:14:39 PM
Bessler's Wheel secret solved?
 
It took three Centuries.  People looked but could not see - including thousands of top scientists?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gdez on September 22, 2014, 11:52:52 PM
It won't work.(belt from w3 to L2) You need another linkage to go from the pivot intersection of L1/L2 to run eccentric weight.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 23, 2014, 02:36:09 AM
It won't work.(belt from w3 to L2) You need another linkage to go from the pivot intersection of L1/L2 to run eccentric weight.

What happens if belt is somewhat loose?  How about using bicycle type chains?  Only a tiny torque is needed to keep the unbalanced wheel rotating...  The belt can transfer some energy from W3 to the axle of the unbalanced wheel.  Please post your improved design.
 
I am a physicist but not an engineer.  I cannot build things.  That is probably the Divine Will - let multiple people or groups shine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 23, 2014, 12:13:29 PM
Used the attached presentation at Hong Kong Invention Club and at Senior Center with success.
 
All participants found the concept easy to understand.
 
"How difficult is it to understand combining a Swing and a Seesaw that we see in the playground every day?"
 
Divine Revalation?
 
*** One side track:  Hong Kong Government is consulting the Public on Retirement Pension for all Citizens. 
The Government is worried whether it can afford the expenses in the long run.
My response: If Hong Kong can produce infinite amount of clean energy,
will the problem be solved?
 
  Hong Kong Government can own its Central Bank. 
Hong Kong Government can invest in Industries with infinite energy. 
Hong Kong Government can take advantage of the trillions of "rich man shelter money" flowing in.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Newton II on September 23, 2014, 02:20:04 PM

How about this one? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFcDOkQm2E
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 23, 2014, 08:29:30 PM
Improve performance of the Tseung version of "Bessler Wheel" with magnets 1.
 
Attached is one possible improvement via the use of magnets.  In this case, a permanent magnet is used to attract the iron Weight W2.  The rest of the structure can be aluminium or other material.  The gravitational constant g is effectively increased.
 
More gravitational energy will be lead-out or brought-in.
The weak Permanent Magnet increases g but is not strong enough to prevent unbalanced wheel rotation.
 
(More improvements leading to a Pulse Motor will be gradually shown.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor is a scientific certainty.  What will the USA and Chinese Military do?)
 
Divine Revelation?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 23, 2014, 11:43:48 PM
Getting closer to the Pulse Motor.  See attached diagram.
Note:
1. There is no need for the belt or chain feedback mechanism any more.
2.  The rotating Wheel W3 will drive the Generator G to get electricity.
3.  There will be some storage mechanisms and electronics to produce the best pulse to the electromagnet.
4.  That pulse increases the clockwise moment as well as providing energy to rotate the unbalanced wheel.  Feedback is automatic.

This primitive pulsing can be improved and implemented by the many talented members in this forum.  I only outine the concept here.
 
Divine Revelation?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 24, 2014, 01:09:22 AM
I believe that the members here should understand that we can indeed lead-out gravitational energy with the above posts.
 
I would like to focus on the increased g with the magnetic additions.  The device as shown in reply 2220 will lose all the gravitational energy if the system were to be placed horizontally.  However, those due to magnetism will still be available.
 
What is magnetic energy?  My latest understanding is that it is related to the Electron Cloud Distribution of the components.  Drawing out magnetic energy is equivalent to drawing out Electron Cloud Energy.  Chemical Energy is a form of Electron Clould Energy.  Different Compounds have different Electron Cloud Energies.  When Chemical Reactions take place, the Distribution of such Electron Clouds will be different.  Thus Chemical Energy is released.  All our fossil fuel burning occurs in this fashion.
 
If magnetic energy is just another form of Electron Cloud Distribution, leading-out such energy does not violate any Laws of Physics or Chemistry.  The Electron Clouds can exchange electromagnetic energies with other components and the environment.
 
So far, we have outlined a Lead-out Energy device based on the unbalanced wheel with a lever system to Lead-out both gravitational and magnetic energy that can be self looped.  Such a device, after starting, can keep leading-out energy, do work and feed itself.  It can run forever and do useful work at the same time.  However, it is NOT the impossible perpetual motion machine.  It is the Lee-Tseung Lead-out energy machine.
 
I shall pause for this concept to sink in before more Divine Revelations.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 24, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
The Generator system G can be similar to the "wind turbine" type with characteristics of handlingnon-uniform rotation.  G can be brought - no development necessary.
 
The unbalanced wheel will be started with Weight W2 at position 1.  Hand rotation may be needed initially.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 25, 2014, 07:42:54 PM
What is the theoretical COP (Output/Input) of the "Unbalanced Wheel 2SO" shown on the RHS?

If the wheel is started with the Weight W2 at position 1, the pulse energy required to do a complete revolution is tiny. The amount is to overcome friction only. (This assumes no energy from the wheel is transferred to the lever. This assumption is apparent in the video but should be confirmed by actual experimental prototype.)

The Output Energy is W1 x g x h where h is the height raised. h can be increased by increasing L1 and L2 proportionally.

Thus the COP can be extremely high. A COP figure of 12 is easily achievable. It can be much higher with less friction at the axle of the wheel and at the lever pivot.

In other words, the Input Energy (as calculated by the pulse) is independent of Output Energy. All the Output Energy is supplied by the Lead-out Gravitational Energy. Should we have a new understanding due to Lead-out Energy Machines?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on September 26, 2014, 08:46:16 PM
ltseung888,

I want to confirm my understanding of the lead-out theory.

What I think you are saying is if you push a pendulum horizontally to the right, then release, two components of energy can be recovered.
Energy#1) Energy that equals the amount of work that was initially done to move the pendulum.
Energy#2) Energy stored in the string as strain, and equals the “weight” times the “drop distance“.

I'm not sure if each of the two energy components have to be recovered along the X and Y axes.  That is, Energy#1 from the X axis, and Energy#2 from the Y axis.

Attached is a graphical representation.  Please let me know if my understanding is correct.

 
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 27, 2014, 12:56:01 AM
 
ltseung888,
 
 I want to confirm my understanding of the lead-out theory.
 
 What I think you are saying is if you push a pendulum horizontally to the right, then release, two components of energy can be recovered.
 Energy#1) Energy that equals the amount of work that was initially done to move the pendulum.
 Energy#2) Energy stored in the string as strain, and equals the “weight” times the “drop distance“.
 
 I'm not sure if each of the two energy components have to be recovered along the X and Y axes. That is, Energy#1 from the X axis, and Energy#2 from the Y axis.
 
 Attached is a graphical representation. Please let me know if my understanding is correct.

 
 
 
@ zoelra
 
You are almost right.  The interpretation from the Lee-Tseung Lead-out theory is as follows:
 
1.    Assume that you apply a force F absolutely horizontally to a pendulum at rest.  The Tension of the String will increase so that the horizontal component of the Tension of the string will be equal to F.  The work done by the force F is equal to FX.  This energy is stored in the pendulum system.  It is not dissipated nor destroyed.
 
2.    At the same time, the increased Tension of the String will lift the pendulum bob upwards.  The Lee-Tseung Lead-out Theory attributes this lifting up of the bob "uses" Lead-out Gravitational Energy.  This energy WY enters into the pendulum system.
 
3.    The calculation of FX and WY are then done separately as allowed in standard Physics and Mathematics.  These two components of energy are compared.
 
4.    For small angles, FX is approximately equal to 2 x WY.  (Two parts of horizontal energy leads out one part of vertical energy).
 
5.    The total energy in the pendulum system is FX+WY as you have correctly listed.
 
In standard textbooks,  any resulting energy is automatically assumed to come from the Horizontal Force F only.  No Leading-out of Gravitational Energy is considered.  FX is treated as the only energy that enters the pendulum system.
 
 
 
As you can see, the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory obeys every Law of Physics.  It just looks at the vertical component of energy differently. 
 
 
 
Similarly, in the Milkovic 2-stage pendulum, most people automatically assume the lifting of the Weight W1 as a transfer of energy from the swinging pendulum.  They (including myself for 10 years), looked and did not see that the amplitude of the pendulum oscillation did NOT decrease.  The energy used to lift the Weight W1 must come from somewhere else.  The Lee-Tseung Lead-out energy theory states that it comes from Gravity.  Every Physics Law is obeyed.
 
 
 
The mathematics and physics in the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Theory is correct from day 1 (10 years ago).  Hope this clears up any confusion.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 27, 2014, 09:06:43 PM
 
Getting another step closer to the Pulse Motor.  I accept the 225 HP Pulse Motor used by the Military in USA and China as scientific reality.  It is a matter of explaining its operation using the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory.


First we accept that:
1.  We can lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy via a setup such as the Milkovic 2SO.  You can wait for a forever running demonstration of a Bessler Type device before formal acceptance.
2.  The Leading-out of gravitational energy is via the varying tension in the string.  The first occurrence is at the pulsing.  The second occurrence is at the point where the clockwise moment (due to weight of W2 and centrifugal force) is greater than the anti-clockwise moment of W1.
3. The pendulum can be replaced by an unbalanced wheel for faster rotation and shorter pendulum length.

The best videos to get to a closer step at the Pulse Motor are from purelyprimitives (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCky8Hqzkspvmgw51osyKnaw) on the blind Peru Scientist, F.M. Chalkalis Energy Multiplier.

1. F.M.CHALKALIS ENERGY MULTIPLIER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHhZZ9DuzK4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHhZZ9DuzK4)
2. Modified FM Chalkalis Energy Multiplier - 1330% Efficiency
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-C0x6xtL4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-C0x6xtL4)
3.  New Balanced Design - 3225% Efficient
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hiNy9JSkrE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hiNy9JSkrE)
4.  Offset Drive Unbalanced Weight - Partial Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDXFB-KTxBU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDXFB-KTxBU)


From these videos, it should be clear that a 360 degree rotation of an “unbalanced wheel” is effectively used.  (purelyprimitives (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCky8Hqzkspvmgw51osyKnaw) did not use a full wheel.) In a full rotation, the rotational speed increases and decreases depending on the position of the “weight” and the application of the "friction Pulse".  This leads-out gravitational energy via the simple pendulum mechanism in line with the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory.  purelyprimitives (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCky8Hqzkspvmgw51osyKnaw) was able to multiply the Input Energy (in reality, leading-out gravitational energy).


Video 1 clearly shows the 360 degree rotation.


Let us focus on the second video.  There were no second stage levers.  The input was via friction to the unbalanced wheel.  The Output Energy as determined by the torque was higher than Input Energy.


Let us focus on the third video.  The “wheel” was balanced but the rotational speed was not constant.  The friction still supplied the pulsing.  Gravitational Energy was brought-in.  The “Pulsing via Friction to rotate and extract via torque at the axle” is another way of using the lead-out gravitational energy.


In Video 4, purelyprimitives (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCky8Hqzkspvmgw51osyKnaw) used the Milkovic 2SO technique and achieved much better performance.


The Energy Multiplier is NOT a hoax.  Tsinghua University had a similar device for many years.  I was accused as an USA spy because I explained its workings to the American Group who developed the 225 HP Pulse Motor at Tsinghua University in 2006.


The Tong Wheel based on a slice of the 225 HP Pulse Motor was an unbalanced wheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 28, 2014, 01:22:24 AM
 Let me summarize what I have posted so far:

1. The Milkovic 2SO can lead-out gravitational energy.
2. The Modified Milkovic 2SO with Unbalanced Wheel can lead-out gravitational energy more efficiently.
3. The leading-out of Gravitation Energy occurs at the pulse-pushing and at the highest velocity position.
4. The Peru Energy Multiplier is effectively a pulsed unbalanced wheel.  Gravitational Energy is lead-out or brought-in the system during the friction pulse.
5. Experimentally, the device described in point 2 appears to be more efficient.
 
The best experimental steps recommended by me are:
1.     Build the Modified Milkovic 2SO with a Bicycle Wheel as the Unbalanced Wheel.  Tune or adjust the various parameters to get a feel of the technology.  These parameters include W1, W2,  L1,  L2, rotational speed (by hand).  Make sure that W2 is iron but not a magnet.
2.    Build another prototype replacing W1 with a crankshaft to get rotational motion of Wheel W3.
3.    Put a loose belt or chain to feedback from W3 to the unbalanced wheel and achieve a “forever running” Bessler Wheel.  Show this prototype to the World (and claim the overunity prize.)
4.    Build another prototype with a Generator turned by W3.  Use the electricity generated to pulse an electromagnet to attract W2 to keep the rotation of the unbalanced Wheel.
5.    Improve the design to provide more power.  The improvement may be multiple unbalanced wheel, shorter or more powerful pulses, etc.
6.    After you become an expert in the “2SO Generator”, produce products to harness Gravitational Energy to benefit the World.  If you want to continue research - do the Energy Multiplier and/or vary the magnetic fields.  Compete with the USA and Chinese Military on the 225 HP Pulse Motor?  More posts on those later.

Divine Revelation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 30, 2014, 03:00:08 AM
 Simplified explanation of F.M.CHALKALIS ENERGY MULTIPLIER
1.    Input is via Friction. Pulse is achieved via partially grooved axle.
2.    The 360 degree rotated pendulum or Unbalanced Wheel Leads-out gravitational energy.
3.    The lead-out energy shows itself as increased rotational speed and/or torque available.
4.    The Output Energy can be extracted via tension belt or something similar.
5.    The Pulse Mechanism is clearly visible.  There is no up and down lever motion.
I believe the Bessler Wheel type device shown on reply 2222 is more efficient.  It gets electrical power (converts gravitational energy into electrical energy) in a simple fashion.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 30, 2014, 05:23:26 AM
The full secret of the 225 HP Pulse Motor

1.    We know that we can lead-out gravitational energy.  We looked at such an open secret and did not see for centuries.
2.    We know that a “Pulse System” similar to Milkovic 2SO or the Peru Energy Multiplier helps to lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.
3.    We can produce magnetic fields with permanent magnets.  The simplest illustration is to use an iron bob and place a permanent magnet at the base to increase the effective g.  This experiment was done by Ms. Forever Yuen over 7 years ago.  We can easily redo the experiment again.
4.    The permanent magnet can last for years.  The extra amount of energy obtained is definitely not related to the energy used to create the permanent magnet.
5.    The Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory assumes that the Electron Cloud Distributions of the components are different and such energy is brought-into the system.  The system exchanges electromagnetic energy with the surrounding.  Using such energy does not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.
6.    The Tong Wheel (a slice of the 225 HP Pulse Motor?) is an unbalanced wheel with 15 coils on the outside facing 16 rotating magnets on the inside. 
7.    The tuning showed possible overunity.  The parameters used in the tuning process include:
a.     Changing the number of coils used as Drive Coils.
b.    Changing the arrangement of such Drive Coils.
c.     Changing the winding and orientation of such Drive Coils.
d.    Changing the number of coils used as Collector Coils.
e.     Changing the arrangement of such Collector Coils.
f.       Changing the winding and orientation of such Collector Coils.
g.     Change the angle and the distance of the Proximity Switch used to switch the Pulsing Current on.  This was a very crude control method.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor used a much more sophisticated technique to control the strength, the duration and direction of the Pulse.
h.    The strength and orientation of the rotating magnets do not need to be identical.  This was the tricky part of the tuning of the Tong Wheel.  The initial design did not allow easy adjustment.  The later model that generated 1 Horse Power  (By Alan Li of Shenzhen) provided such improvement.
i.       When multiple slices are placed side-by-side, the sum of their effect is more than simple addition.  The magnetic fields or the Electron Cloud Distributions are more complex and some resonance type effects can take place.  By resonance effect, I refer to some conditions that showed a sudden pronounced peak.
j.       The exact construction of the 225 HP Pulse Motor is still a closely guarded “national secret”.  However, if we accept that gravitational energy can be brought-in to a system continuously, we can see that a Pulse Motor can theoretically bring-in Electron Motion Cloud Energy continuously without violating the Law of Conservation of Energy.

 
My suggestion to any groups doing the research is to focus on the Milkovic  2SO using an unbalanced wheel first.  I made the mistake of jumping around for 10 years – from getting energy from air, from water, from gravity, from Pulse Motors, from non-moving flux change systems etc.  My personal resources including money and knowledge are obviously limited.
 
After much praying, I believe the Divine Guidance is for me to focus on helping one or more Groups with the Milkovic 2SO with an unbalanced wheel.  That is guaranteed to provide overunity.
 
 Demonstrate that to the World and encourage all Governments to replicate and invest.  When all nations can see from their own scientists producing devices leading-out or bringing-in gravitational energy via the combination of “a seesaw and a swing”, the World will change for the better.
 
Divine Revelation?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on September 30, 2014, 10:53:01 PM
 Can Hong Kong be the Lead-out Energy Mecca of the World?
 
The youth of Hong Kong is protesting for a “True Democracy”.  This movement is different from the violent clashes of the West.  The students are peaceful, disciplined and self-motivated.  They support each other.  The future of Hong Kong is very bright.
 
Can we educate the Hong Kong Youth with Lead-out Energy while they are in the Streets?  They have access to Internet.  They are willing to talk and listen to strangers and strange ideas.  Lead-out Energy will guarantee them a future for themselves and their off-springs.  They can lead the World in both Super Democracy and Lead-out Energy Technology.  The hold from Businessmen and Bankers is over.  Ideals such fairness, world peace, sharing of ideas and resources will take root.
 
When the Protest is over, hundreds if not thousands of Hong Kong Students will master the Lead-out Energy concepts and technology.  Is that a Divine Blessing?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 02, 2014, 01:06:34 AM
 Question:  If I have a balanced vertical Tong Wheel or a Bedini wheel, can I lead-out Gravitational Energy by adding an unbalanced wheel at the axle of the wheel?
 
Yes.  The reasons are:

1.    At no load, very little energy is needed to rotate the wheel.
2.    If a Pulse is used to maintain the rotation, the pulse can be very short.
3.    If an unbalanced wheel is attached to the axle, it will cause the wheel to have non-uniform rotation.  This is the secret of leading-out gravitational energy.
4.    The bringing-in of gravitational energy shows itself in higher rotational speed, larger torque and even smaller Pulse Power.
5.    If energy were extracted in such a system, the energy is not only from the Pulse but also from the Lead-out Gravitational Energy.
 
Not discussed yet is the Leading-out of magnetic or electromagnetic energy.  But adding the unbalanced wheel mechanism to the Tong Wheel or the Bedini Wheel will bring-in gravitational energy to make it overunity.  Does anyone want to experiment?
 
*** A researcher in Hong Kong, Dr. Raymond Ting, will add an unbalanced wheel to his "Ting" Wheel.  His Wheel uses a chain mechanism to rotate a shaft of a small wind turbine system.  Electricity and recharging battery can be from the commercial wind turbine system.  At present, the system cannot fully self recharge.  Adding the unbalanced wheel and some tuning is expected to tip the balance.
 
*** Hong Kong will be a Mecca for Lead-out Energy Research?
 
Divine Revelation?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 03, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
 
At least two groups in Hong Kong have shown interest in doing the experiment in reply 2223.
 
If the comparison is successful, change the up and down weight to a crankshaft mechanism. Put in a belt or a chain mechanism to do a "Bessler Wheel". Success will be - one pull and the unbalanced wheel will continue to rotate continuously for two weeks. Historic Record of the Bessler Wheel was over 53 days. With the Lead-out Energy theory guiding the experiment and modern tools, 14 days should not be a problem.
 
The only unknown factor is - when will the students stop blocking the streets and go back to school?
 
The other possibility is to do the experiment in China. That can start after the holidays next week.
 
Have any other groups in other parts of the World start working on the unbalanced 2SO wheel yet? A Jewish group has informed the Israel Government.  Have you informed your Government yet?  What will happen to the oil prices?
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on October 04, 2014, 07:55:34 AM
Chalkalis couldnt load his device.

I know this by common sense.

He could have easily dismissed all skeptics, but never would.

Just like the john device, just self moving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_PQ32tMQ0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on October 04, 2014, 10:01:38 AM
https://www.facebook.com/Boboats/photos

who can guess this device ?

I can ... I know how this works.

Can you ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Marsing on October 04, 2014, 11:24:07 AM

BOW ROVE !!!

"device self functional solely on nature force"      :o 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 05, 2014, 02:03:11 AM
 
Chalkalis couldnt load his device.
 
 I know this by common sense.
 
 He could have easily dismissed all skeptics, but never would.
 
 Just like the john device, just self moving.
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_PQ32tMQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_PQ32tMQ0)
 

 
 
@ARMCORTEX
 
Your video link showed the Chas Campbell device.  Chas Campbell claimed that he could use a small motor to start his device.  His device then delivered up to 10 times more power.  He used a number of vertical wheels, belts and gears.
 
 
 
It is very easy to use a small amount of power (P1) to drive the unbalanced wheel in the 2SO set up.  That amount of power is used to maintain the rotation of the unbalanced wheel.  The lead-out gravitational power (P2) will then drive the larger machine or generator.  The lead-out gravitational power (P2) can easily be 10 times P1.

 
 
Chas Campbell, as a retired garage mechanic, may have built the equivalent either intentionally or accidentally.  When the “unbalanced wheel 2SO Bessler wheel” (or the XXX wheel where XXX is the name of the person who first build it) spins continuously in front of the World for 2 weeks, scientists will re-examine and work with Chas Campbell.
 
 
 
Alternate Energy Researchers will rejoice.  Will you become XXX?
 
God Bless.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on October 05, 2014, 02:48:37 AM
Thx you for your spiritual support, lets hope I do rejoice.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 05, 2014, 10:39:15 AM
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98aiISB2DNw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98aiISB2DNw)
 
 
The claim was generating 2340 watts with 750 watt input. The "Chas Campbell" device used wheels, belts, flywheels and gears. It made much noise. That indicated some "unbalance" or "pulsing" somewhere. The most probable place was the belts that were sometimes tight and sometimes loose.
 
 
Such a pulsing set up might lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy as most of the wheels were mounted vertically.  (I am guessing as I do not have the device to examine.)
 
 
The Peru Energy Multiplier used Pulsed Friction as Input.  The unbalanced wheel was very evident.  The Chas Campbell used “Pulsed Belt?”  The noise indicated “unbalance”?
 
 
Let some competent scientists analyze the Chas Campbell device after the “XXX Wheel” spins continuously for 2 weeks.  Who will be XXX???
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 05, 2014, 03:25:07 PM
Met Mr. Tong Po Chi this afternoon.  Tong built the Tong Wheel that was a simulation of a slice of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.

We discussed the old times and the latest development of the XXX Wheel.  Tong felt that it was well within his engineering capability.  However, he is busy with his other committed projects.  He said that he might do it when he became less busy.  If someone else does it in Hong Kong, he does not mind visiting and provide improvement suggestions.

I talked about adding an unbalanced wheel to the orginal Tong Wheel.  Apparently, the original Tong wheel passed many hands who took it apart and made changes.  The wooden structure fell apart.  It should be retired. 

The new effort is to provide a small pulse power to an unbalanced wheel to maintain its rotation; bring-in the maximum gravitational and/or electromagnetic energy and use that bring-in energy.
 
We now know that the bring-in gravitational energy can be independent of the Pulse Energy.  The design is likely to be very different.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on October 05, 2014, 06:40:55 PM
Chas Campbell was no mathematician or physician.

From reading back an old thread from Ashtweth, ratio was not critical.

He tinkered his way to it, by the strenght of his idea, it worked.

My analysis is valid, I am not scientist.

See the video, see my analysis, judge for yourself, by the law of possibility, and common sense, true working is not far from that.

Btw, i changed my file hosting to mediafire, what a bunmch of crap, my other wasnt even working

See other youtube channel, from turkey, they incorporate other methods.

youtube is linked in my description.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 05, 2014, 11:56:08 PM
 Let me do some simple calculation to see how much gravitational energy we can reasonably extract with a simple bicycle unbalanced wheel.
 
The assumptions are:
1.    The Input energy required is to keep the unbalanced wheel rotating at a certain speed.  That amount is used to overcome friction and wind resistance.
2.    The lead-out energy is independent of the Input energy.  It can be estimated from the potential energy gained by the weight W1 (mgh)
3.    Assume m = 3 Kg; g = 9.8m/s/s; h = 3 cm (such assumptions are possible from the Raymond Head video).
4.    The possible bring-in energy per revolution is 3 x 9.8 x 0.03 = 0.882 Newton-Meters.
5.    Assume that we have one revolution per second – not a very high speed.  The Power available = 0.882 Newton-Meters per second or 0.882 watts.  That is equal to 0.0012 HP.
 
Let us not be too greedy at the first attempt.  This 0.882 watts should be able to sustain Input 1.  The self-looped Bessler style unbalanced bicycle wheel running forever is possible with good modern engineering.  If Bessler could do it 3 centuries ago, we should be able to do it now.  Do not expect the first XXX wheel to power your house or even light a 100w light bulb.
 
*** Chas Campbell started his rotation at 1430rpm - almost 24 times the 60rpm in this example.  The Bedini motors also run at high rpms.  I believe the Bessler Wheel ran at low rpm - technology in the 17th Century.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 06, 2014, 11:43:25 AM
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-a8QAeCoNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-a8QAeCoNU)
Self Running 40kW 40,000 Watt Fuelless Generator Full Video
World Improvement Through The Spirit Ministries (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgUBFNW5fUfO6IQbaoaA5Mg)
 
This is more convincing than the Chas Campbell device.  It requires some external energy to start.  After that, it not only self-runs but also provides more than 40KW.
 
It uses not only the lead-out gravitational energy but also the lead-out electromagnetic energy.  The lead-out electromagnetic energy can be much greater as it is related to the Electron Cloud Distributions of the components.
 
Website: http://www.witts.ws/ (http://www.witts.ws/)
 
The 225 HP Pulse Motor/Generator has a competitor.
 
The focus at present will be the XXX Wheel - Doing the same thing as the Bessler Wheel over 3 centuries ago.  Who will be XXX?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on October 06, 2014, 07:21:57 PM

The 225 HP Pulse Motor/Generator has a competitor.
 
Not if it WITTS. They make most people throw up.
.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 07, 2014, 12:06:20 AM
Not if it WITTS. They make most people throw up.
.
Their technology is real.  I think I can explain the workings of their machine and reproduce their results now.
 
First thing first.  Let the whole World know and have a "Bessler style unbalanced wheel" or XXX Wheel that will run forever bringing-in gravitational energy.  Bessler did it over 3 centuries ago.  We are a bit late.  Who will be XXX?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 08, 2014, 02:12:32 AM
 
I could not access my hotmail account this morning. Someone doing hacking?
 
To be on the safe side, I am disclosing the unfinished "leading-out electromagnetic energy" information now. I do not want to carry it to my grave.
 
Unfinished thoughts:
 
1.    We are on our way to definitely prove that we can lead-out gravitational energy.  Multiple independent teams are working on the XXX Wheel.  It is a matter who will publish the results first.
 
2.    If we can lead-out gravitational energy, we can definitely lead-out magnetic energy.  The simplest proof is to use an iron pendulum bob or weight on an unbalanced wheel and place a permanent magnet at the lowest point to increase the effective g.
 
3.    Permanent Magnets will not lose their magnetism for years.  The extra work that can be produced is not related to the energy used to create the permanent magnet.
 
4.    The magnetic field can be increased, decreased and changed in direction.  Any pulsing (or lee-tseung pull) can produce different results in leading-out the magnetic energy.
 
5.    Electromagnets are even more powerful in leading out the “magnetic energy”.  The magnetic energy comes from the different orientation of the Electron Cloud Fields.
 
6.    If we can use such “Electron Cloud Field” Energy, we do not need to use fuel or chemical energy (another form of Electron Cloud Energy).
 
7.    Many published devices such as the 225 HP Pulse Motor, the Laing, the Wang, the Bedini, the Newman Motors etc. actually lead-out or bring-in such Electron Cloud Energy.
 
 
 
Humans have been wasting their efforts and polluting the environment by using the wrong form of “Electron Cloud Energy”.  After the XXX wheel rotates continuously for 2 weeks, all traditional scientists will be forced to change their minds and study the Lead-out Energy theory.
 
 
 
Bessler did it over 3 Centuries ago.  Our scientists are a bit late.  (The Military have been keeping it a secret.  Can they keep the secret now?)
 
God Bless.
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 09, 2014, 12:28:55 AM
 Since I am still alive, I shall continue to discuss the leading-out of electromagnetic energy.
 
Let us use the attached diagram to help in the discussion.  The top LHS picture is the pure mechanical “Bessler Wheel” that will lead-out gravitational energy.  That is the XXX wheel being developed by multiple groups.
 
On the top RHS is the addition of a permanent magnet attracting the iron weight W2.  This arrangement effectively increases the gravitational constant g.  g can be increased hundreds or even thousands of times.
 
On the bottom LHS, we use one electromagnet to pulse the unbalanced wheel.  The weight W2 can now be a magnet.  Suitable attraction and repulsion can be set up.  A tiny force (energy) will keep the unbalanced wheel rotating.  We can add additional magnets and coils to increase the force and the effective g.  We can easily make the resulting magnetic force much larger than the gravitational force.
 
On the bottom RHS, we have the Bedini Motor as an example.  I do not believe the Bedini Motor as shown is the best configuration.  However, it shows multiple magnets or electromagnets.  Such arrangement can be more powerful than a single electromagnet.  (By the way, the addition of an unbalanced wheel to a balanced Tong Wheel greatly increased its torque and the output power.  Dr. Raymond Ting said that the torque was so large that it twisted the rotating shaft.  He had to redesign the Ting Wheel.  The Ting Wheel may be able to deliver 5KW or more when redesigned.  That should be sufficient for a normal Hong Kong household.)
 
There are numerous combinations when we consider Pulse Motors.  They now have a sound theoretical basis.  They all lead-out the electron cloud energy and thus do not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.
 
Divine Revelation?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 10, 2014, 09:57:34 AM
There will be a Chan Wheel in the coming days.  The Chan Wheel may be the XXX wheel if no one else builds a similar device.
 
Mr. Peter Chan, a retired mechanical engineer, has bought an old bicycle and took it apart.  He should be able to build two Chan Wheels.  Once he bought the other parts, he would be able to build the XXX wheel.
 
The first step is a simple demonstration of the Milkovic 2SO except an unbalanced wheel would be used.  The attached diagrams show side and top view of this set up.  Both the lever arm and Frame have "holes" so that the set up can be adjusted or tuned.
 
The second step is to add the crankshaft and bicycle chain.  A much simplified crankshaft than the picture is sufficient.
 
The Chan wheel will be available for all to copy and replicate.  It will be announced to the World after running continuously for two weeks after one pull.
 
The World Energy Crisis is coming to an end.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on October 10, 2014, 04:57:56 PM

I could not access my hotmail account this morning. Someone doing hacking?
 
Hotmail is notorious for difficulties of one sort or another.
Has your account been sending out spam to other people without your knowledge?
Have you changed your password recently?
Do you have a password which is a word in the English language or any other language?
Do you have an item of punctuation in your password?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 10, 2014, 06:42:52 PM
Simplified Chan Wheel crankshaft mechanism.  People in 17th Century should be able to design it.
 
The attached mechanism should be constructable in the 17th century.  It may not be very efficient.  With proper machining and lubriation, it may drive the bicycle chain and the unbalanced wheel continuously for 2 weeks?  Most machine shops in Hong Kong or China should be able to do it.  The actual bend need not be rectangular.  The shaft need not be one piece.
 
Anyone with better ideas?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 10, 2014, 09:58:03 PM
Train wheel as reference.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 11, 2014, 03:20:22 AM
Proposed simple crankshaft part design.
I think that we have the basic information on the Chan Wheel now.
 
There will be much testing, tuning in the coming days.  The chance of one pull and the Chan Wheel keeps rotating for 2 weeks more is 99%.  The Lead-out gravitational energy should be able to overcome friction and air resistance.
 
You can start now.  Or wait for exact dimensions after tuning.  Or order from Mr. Peter Chan later.
 
The draft presentation file is attached.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 12, 2014, 12:10:54 AM
Correction to the "Bessler 2SO Unbalanced Wheel".
 
Weight W1 is still needed to provide the anti-clockwise moment.  In the previous diagram, W1 was missing.
 
The Chan Wheel has this component maintained after initial tuning.  Always good to have the actual experimental device working and confirming the theory.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 14, 2014, 09:39:43 PM
 While we wait for the experimental results of the Chan Wheel and similar, we shall focus on the various mechanisms that can lead-out gravitational energy.

We know that:
1.    Gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in via a pull or push of the pendulum at the right time.  For small angles of a horizontal pull or push, two parts of horizontal energy can lead-out one part of gravitational energy.
2.    Gravitational energy can be brought-in “suddenly” in Milkovic style 2 stage oscillators.  The amount brought-in is independent of the pull or push?
3.    The Peru energy multiplier used pulsing friction as input and extracted shaft rotational torque as output.
4.    The Chas Campbell device used a low power rotational engine as input and used flywheels, pulley style belts and produced greater power to drive a higher power generator.  Are there “pulsing elements” in the set up leading out gravitational energy?
5.    The adding of an unbalanced wheel to a balanced Tong wheel made the Ting wheel generate much more output power with the same input power. 
6.    If we can lead-out gravitational energy, we must be able to lead-out magnetic and electromagnetic energy.  The electromagnetic energy can be many times that from gravitational energy.  The many known pulse engines fall into this category.
 
In the rejected Lee-Tseung patent, there was the statement that the lead-out energy mechanism could be extended to oscillating, vibrating, rotating or flux change systems.  I am sure that the statement will be proven to be correct with additional research.
 
I shall suggest additional experiments that will add to our understanding of the lead-out or bring-in energy theory in the waiting period.  You are welcome to do the same.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 14, 2014, 11:27:43 PM
Horizontal magnetic pendulum?

If we can lead-out graviational energy via pulse pushing, can we lead-out magnetic energy via pulse pushing in magnetic field?

Are we using the Electron Cloud Energy?  If so, do we need to use the Chemical Electron Cloud Energy?

Are we getting a better insight of the Pulse Motor?

Divine Revelation?
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 15, 2014, 02:02:18 AM
Pulse Motor with unbalanced flywheel to maintain pulsed rotation.  Output Energy extracted via shaft.
 
Ting Wheel used this mechanism.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 15, 2014, 03:04:42 AM
Comparing the Bedini Style Pulse Motor and the 225 HP Style Pulse Motor.
 
The early Bedini motor used one pulse coil to provide energy to the wheel.  The goal was to use as little energy as possible.
 
The 225 HP Pulse Motor used large coils to provide strong magnetic fields.  That helped to lead-out or bring-in more eloectromagnetic energy.  The Tong and Ting Wheels are examples.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 15, 2014, 09:36:57 AM
 From Chapter 4 of Patrick Kelly’s book

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter4.pdf (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter4.pdf)

John Bedini’s COP=8 Pulsed Flywheel.

The Chas Campbell system is not an isolated case. On page 19 of the book “Free Energy Generation - Circuits and Schematics” John Bedini shows a diagram of a motor/generator which he has had running for three years continuously while keeping it’s own battery fully charged.  (Bedini1.jpg)
 
The general strategy is that the motor spins the flywheel and the flywheel shaft spins a disc with permanent magnets mounted on it. The magnets have their South poles facing corresponding helically wound coils which are connected in series. As the magnets pass by the coils, a voltage is generated and current is then drawn from the coils and fed, first to the motor to power it and then secondly to the battery to keep it charged.
 
John shows his switching mechanism as a mechanical attachment on the flywheel shaft with a conducting sector of about 110 degrees of arc. This gives equal duration pulses being fed back to the motor and then to the battery, with there being a short gap between each pulse and the following one.


Patrick Kelly correctly suggested the addition of a geared mechanism (Bedini2.jpg) I would further suggest to use an unbalanced flywheel rather than a normal balanced flywheel.  The pulsing effect will bring-in much more gravitational and electromagnetic energy.  (That has been demonstrated by the Ting Wheel).
 
Furthermore, the arrangement in reply 2255 produces a much stronger magnetic field than the disc with magnets as shown here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 15, 2014, 01:59:33 PM
Ting Wheel Overview:
 
1.  Use large coils to provide strong magnetic field.  Has excess pulsing power.
2.  Use unbalanced wheel mounted vertically to provide additional pulsing and bringing-in gravitational energy.
3.  Use chain mechanism to pass energy from main shaft to commercial windmill generator unit.
4.  Commercial windmill generator provides power plug outlets (220V) and Recharging Battery circuits.
5.  Aim to provide 5KW for home use.  Energy comes from 12V battery, Lead-out Gravitational and Electromagnetic Energy.  The last is the main source.  The last can also be thought of as Electron Cloud Energy.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 15, 2014, 04:21:22 PM
 There is the concept of Zero Point Energy as advocated by inventors and authors such as John Bedini, Tom Bearden,Thomas Valone, etc.
 
The term zero point comes from the thermal dynamics concept of absolute degree zero.  At such a temperature, there is supposed to be no thermal energy.  However, there are still other forms of energy such as gravitational and electromagnetic energy. If we can use such energy, we are effectively using zero point energy.
 
The Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory and the Chan Wheel demonstrate absolutely and conclusively that we can bring-in gravitational energy continuously.  That also leads to bringing-in magnetic and electromagnetic energies.  The obtaining of energy from Zero Point (or quantum vacuum) is a scientific certainty.
 
This may be slightly different from what the authors originally think...
 
Divine Revelation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 17, 2014, 12:00:19 PM
Photo of Chan Wheel as of Oct 17, 2014.
 
The first Chan Wheel was designed to obtain test data.  It also served two important functions:
1.  Is the Unbalanced Wheel equivalent to the Pendulum?
2.  Can a baloanced wheel lift Weight W1 and lead-out gravitation energy?
 
The conclusion from the experiment is:
1. Yes. The Unbalanced Wheel is equivalent to the Pendulum at low swinging amplitude.  At higher rotational speeds, it is much better than the pendulum in leading-out gravitational energy.
 
2. No.  A Balanced wheel cannot lift Weight W1.  This is the reason why adding an unbalanced wheel to the Ting Wheel increased the output from 300 watts to 5,000 watts. (I believe that that Tong and Bedini wheels will bennefit from this feature.)
 
The videos will be edited before publishing.  The second version of the Chan Wheel will have the feedback mechanism (cranksaft and chain).  It should be out shortly.  Be patient.  The World waited over 300 years to learn the secret of the Bessler Wheel.  A few more days or weeks would not make much difference.  The second version of the Chan Wheel is expected to run forever.  I plan on two weeks continuous running before announcing to the World in a big way.
 
God Bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on October 17, 2014, 12:20:16 PM
Quote
The Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory and the Chan Wheel demonstrate absolutely and conclusively that we can bring-in gravitational energy continuously.
No, they don't.
Quote
That also leads to bringing-in magnetic and electromagnetic energies. 
No, it doesn't.
Quote
The obtaining of energy from Zero Point (or quantum vacuum) is a scientific certainty.

Please feel free to cite some scientific references for the _obtaining_ of energy from the "zero point".


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ingyenenergiagep on October 17, 2014, 07:31:35 PM
The stronger centrifugal force gives more mecha work.

Bigger centri force, more extra work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ingyenenergiagep on October 17, 2014, 07:48:36 PM
Pulse motor: the iron core without electricity must make very strong attract to the magnet. This gives the extra power.

After u give electricity to coil in attract direction. The attraction is stronger.

The magnet is opposite with the coil. After u open the circuit, the coil makes reverse polarity, and repel the magnet.
More voltage, less resistance-> stronger repelling, stronger motor.

The centrifugal force is usable in the space. The gravi force is not.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 17, 2014, 11:21:16 PM
The stronger centrifugal force gives more mecha work.

Bigger centri force, more extra work.
@ingyenenergiagep
You are correct to some level.  In the Chen Wheel Experiment and similar, we did find that a faster rotation provided higher centrifugal force and more gravitational energy was brought in.  (Centrifugal force varies as v*v.)  However, since we used an unbalanced wheel as the source, there was much "shaking" and limited the speed of rotation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ingyenenergiagep on October 18, 2014, 02:40:24 PM
My brother, check this topic:
http://www.overunity.com/15027/schauberger-clem-centrifugal-engine-and-inertial-prop-free-nrg-spaceship-drive/msg420290/#new

Leave message about ur opinion.
Make the world a better place!
Happy days and good health!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 18, 2014, 08:31:33 PM
My brother, check this topic:
http://www.overunity.com/15027/schauberger-clem-centrifugal-engine-and-inertial-prop-free-nrg-spaceship-drive/msg420290/#new (http://www.overunity.com/15027/schauberger-clem-centrifugal-engine-and-inertial-prop-free-nrg-spaceship-drive/msg420290/#new)

Leave message about ur opinion.
Make the world a better place!
Happy days and good health!
I shall focus on the Chan Wheel - make it self-run for two weeks first.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 18, 2014, 08:45:55 PM
No, they don't. No, it doesn't.
Please feel free to cite some scientific references for the _obtaining_ of energy from the "zero point".
Please study my posts starting from reply 2179.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 19, 2014, 01:48:31 PM
Engineers' meeting on Oct 19, 2014 at Peter Chan's Office.
 
The Chan Wheel was pivoted on two loose screws.  That was not ideal but was sufficient for learning and getting data purposes.  Top picture showed Mr. Peter Chan and his wheel with Weight W1 hanging and resting on files as support.  Bottom picture showed Weight W1 moved to lever arm.  A crank will be used to convert the up and down motion to rotational motion.
 
Comments include:
1. Use a larger wheel.
2. Use trianglar frame to provide flexibility.
3, Firmer construction to reduce shaking.
4. Use a proper shaft for Lever to reduce friction.
5. Look for ready-made crankshaft.
 
The consensus was that it is worth the trouble to do the Loopback.  It may take longer than a few days.
The PDF file was used effectively.  It explained why the Ting Wheel should have an unbalanced wheel.  The setup would not slide any more.  Simple but effective set up for discussion amongst engineers.
 
Follow the Divine Hand.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 19, 2014, 02:33:26 PM
 http://youtu.be/p4rgLBU34Oo (http://youtu.be/p4rgLBU34Oo)
Chan Wheel first part is available for viewing at youtube.
 
The main purpose of the first part is that the unbalanced wheel is "equivalent" to the pendulum.  The weights and lever arm positions are adjusted to provide the largest "lead-out" gravitational energy.
 
Note that one pull can rotate the unbalanced wheel over 10 times.  The screw pivot had a large friction.  There was considerable shaking.  Such losses were high.  The "hand feel" by the Engineers indicated that the up and down forces on Weight 1 (2.5 Kg) was considerable.  After improvements, the feedback mechanism with crankshaft and chains will be added.  Your suggestions are welcome.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 19, 2014, 10:28:32 PM
Comments from Aaron Quant:
1.  We now understand that the "pulsing" or "jerking" motion is responsible for leading out gravitational energy.  The use of an unbalanced flywheel is essential.
2.  In all Universities or Technical Institutions, unbalanced rotation is automatically considered as "bad engineering".  No wonder the traditional scientists and engineers missed the Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory.  Many automatically rejected it.
3.  It may be possible to use almost any low power engine to drive an unbalanced wheel to lead-out gravitational (and electron cloud) energy.  Use the chain mechanism to drive a larger generator.  The larger generator may be able to generate electricity to drive electrical appliance and also drive the low power engine.  Once started, such a lead-out energy system can run forever.
4.  If the Ting Wheel can generate 5KW and the battery can be fully recharged, the World will have a useful product "right away".
5.  The Military in USA, China and elsewhere can no longer keep the secret.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor is not a hoax.  Will the Military (and the Oil Interest) kill all the scientists and engineers who read the Tseung posts?
 
My advice to Tseung is to continue to follow the Divine Guidance and benefit the World.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ingyenenergiagep on October 20, 2014, 08:41:24 AM
U should use 2 rigid and strong metal weight holder like pendulum weight holder. It takes less air resistance loss.

The xtra energy comes from centrifugal force. Make resonace in system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cherryman on October 20, 2014, 11:09:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2hO--TIjjA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2hO--TIjjA)



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 20, 2014, 11:23:30 AM
One "crazy" suggestion to produce the crankshaft effect is to use the pile of old computer CDs.
The task becomes to "build the firm support D".  Will it be easier to implement?
Any comments?
 
One comment:
This can be a simple basic crankshaft unit.  Get the hook part ready.  It may serve many purposes.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 20, 2014, 10:00:14 PM
Buy existing crankshaft?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 21, 2014, 08:23:19 PM
The simplest crank from wikipedia?
 
The concept is clear.  It is the engineering part.  Bessler did it 300 years ago.  Can we do it now?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 21, 2014, 11:42:38 PM
 Let me summarize what we learned from the Chan Wheel so far.

1.    The Milkovic 2 stage Pendulum leads out or brings in  gravitational energy at the pushing and at the Weight W1 lifting stages.  The most convincing evidence is that the amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum does not significantly decrease when W1 was lifted.
2.    The pendulum can be replaced by an unbalanced wheel to become the Chan Wheel.  For small angles of oscillation, the physics and mathematics are identical to 1.  However, the unbalanced wheel can have higher speed of rotation and thus can bring in more gravitational energy.
3.    The up and down motion of Weight W1 can be changed to rotational motion via a “crankshaft” mechanism.  Mr. Peter Chan and Team have not decided on the best mechanism yet.
4.    From the “feel” of the up and down motion, the consensus was that the energy should be able to overcome the frictional losses of the unbalanced wheel.  Self loop is possible and worth the continued construction effort.
5.    The Chan Wheel can be improved with
a.     Larger diameter Wheel
b.    Multiple wheels in parallel
c.     Heavier Weights W1 and W2
d.    Longer Lever arm
e.    Lower friction
6.    However, the most important outcome is that
a.    The pendulum can be replaced by a horizontal magnetic arrangement.
b.    The magnetic arrangement can lead out magnetic energy.
c.     The lead out magnetic or electromagnetic energy can be many times the gravitational energy.
d.    The lead out magnetic energy can be via an unbalanced wheel also.
7.    Existing Pulse Wheels such as Bedini, Chas Campbell, Peru Energy Multiplier, Laing, Wang, Tong and Ting Wheels can be improved with the addition or tuning of the proper “unbalanced wheel”.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor is not a hoax.  In Hong Kong, both the Tong and Ting Wheels can be demonstrated to be overunity and self loop.  Such improvements are underway.
8.    Any Engineer can follow the Lee-Tseung Theory and construct the Chan Wheel.  The construction details of the Chan Wheel are explained in every detail.  Even the early thoughts and mistakes are disclosed for all to learn.
9.    All researchers on overunity devices will benefit from the understanding of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy theory, the Milkovic 2SO, the Chan Wheel, the Bedini and Ting Wheels.  Such research will not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.
10.                      Lee Cheung Kin is over 80 years old.  Lawrence Tseung is 69 and has poor eyesight, hearing, and unsteady hands etc.  Both of them can no longer do experiments.  The Theory is out.  There will be no patents to restrict the development of the Lead out Energy technology.  The young engineers worldwide are encouraged to stand on our shoulders and benefit the World.

God Bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 22, 2014, 08:44:03 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK1MjVrkY-k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK1MjVrkY-k)
Hot rod products.  The rod and crankshaft appeared to be exactly what we need.
Buy existing products.  Save money and time.
 
Hopefully, the completed Chan Wheel will be out withing weeks.  One pull and forever running - using lead-out gravitational energy?
http://www.hotrodsproducts.com/ (http://www.hotrodsproducts.com/)
An ebay search on crankshaft turned up an used one for USD75.  The Chinese used parts may cost much less.  Looks like that there is no need to do any design.  Just select and buy.  Chan Wheel should be out in weeks if not days.
Updated Chan Wheel presentation file is attached.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 23, 2014, 08:29:35 PM
Video showing that the Balanced Chan Wheel cannot lead out gravitational energy.
 
http://youtu.be/Kqtp4-X6TGI (http://youtu.be/Kqtp4-X6TGI)
 
This is the most common mistake for the Pulse Motor Inventors.  One must have the oscillation or vibration or the Lee-Tseung Pull to lead out the gravitational or magnetic energy.

Compare with this video

http://youtu.be/FolD_R32Eqw (http://youtu.be/FolD_R32Eqw)

The Unbalanced Chan Wheel showed the Milkovic 2SO effect.  Gravitational Energy is brought in.
 
The comparison convinced many Hong Kong Researchers to add an unbalanced wheel to their inventions.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 24, 2014, 07:43:53 AM
Now that the Chan Wheel has been fully described and that Mr. Peter Chan and team are waiting for parts, I shall turn the attention to the Yuen Wheel.

The Yuen Wheel starts from a different point of view:
1. If an unbalanced wheel is needed to bring-in gravitational energy, how about using two unbalanced wheels?
2. If we arrange them side by side with a common axle, one will affect the other and vice versa.
3. If when the weight is at the top of one wheel and another equal weight is at the bottom of the other identical wheel, one will provide maximum torque to help to provide rotation to the other when it is at the maximum height position.
4. If gravitational energy is brought-in, the brough-in energy may be more or equal to overcoming frictionThe Yuen Wheel will then rotate forever.  It is another form of the Bessler Wheel.
5. The design is much easier.  See attached diagram.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 25, 2014, 07:09:42 PM
HK$1,000 has now been allocated to develop the Yuen Wheel.  The money comes from the "red pocket" money of Ms. Forever Yuen.  She will have a Wheel as a present for her birthday!
 
The breakdown is as follows:
1. Two old bicycle wheels at HK$40 each.
2. Two lead Weights from fishing shops  at HK$40 each.
3. Frame parts to build a support similar to the Chan Wheel at HK$200.
4. Bearing and steel rod at HK$200.
5. Screws, nuts and other parts at HK$100.
6. Miscellaneous at HK$340
 
Labor and design costs are free (voluntary).  The Yuen team will compete with others to come up with the Forever Running Wheel to benefit the World.  The success will be the reward.  It is likely to win the overunity prizes in this Forum and other competitions around the World.
 
Some Venture Funds already promised to invest Billions if any Wheel can lead-out energy and run continuously for 2 weeks.  Many Politicans and Academics are waiting for the public demonstration.  The Yuen Wheel will be free for the World to copy and replicate.  Other wheels such as Wang, Tong and Ting Wheels will be commercial ventures that can provide 5KW or more. 
 
There is no need for the Chinese and USA Military to keep the 225 HP Pulse Motor a secret any more.  Once they release the technology (backed up by the Lee-Tseung Lead out Energy Theory), the energy crisis will be over. 
 
HK$1,000 is approximately US$130.  Almost any household in Hong Kong can afford it.  Every family is a potential "angel investor".  Money is not a problem.  Volunteers are not a problem.  Technical knowhow is not a problem.  The Yuen Wheel will be developed in the coming days.  It is likely to be completed before the Chan Wheel that is waiting for parts.
 
Thank you to the Almighty for the Divine Guidance.  Amen.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 25, 2014, 11:53:23 PM
Drawing inspiration from the Peru Energy Multiplier.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPe1zB5JQmU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPe1zB5JQmU)
 
The Inventor was very, very close to inventing the Yuen Wheel that will rotate forever.  Without the Lee-Tseung Lead Out Energy theory to guide him, he had to experiment his way and took on complicated paths.
 
If he had used two unbalanced wheels instead of one unbalanced wheel and one balanced flywheel, he would have been home!  However, he deserves much credit.  He provided inspiration and confidence that the Yuen Wheel will succeed even before construction.
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 26, 2014, 07:01:08 AM
From an engineer who participated in the discussion of the Chan and Yuen Wheels.
 
The Yuen Wheel design is far superior.  It can easily be extended to 3 or 4 wheels in parallel.  So long as they all rotate in the same direction, the resultant torque will be in the same direction.  The lead out gravitational energy can easily compensate any frictional loss.  The diameter of the unbalanced wheels can be reduced.  A desktop version toy that will rotate and generate electricity forever is possible.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor has 9 wheels in parallel.
 
Another Engineer: "It cannot be this simple.  How can thousands of scientists and engineers miss such an obvious solution.  I have to see it work before I believe it.  The Bessler secret..."

 
Let the first Forever Running Yuen Wheel be shown to the World as soon as possible.  It is like playing the game Free Cell.  We are at the last stage when success is virtually assured.  All previous efforts are not wasted.  They help to complete the puzzle.  You are welcome to come out with your version of the Yuen Wheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 26, 2014, 10:33:15 PM
 What would have happened if Bessler disclosed his secret 300 years ago?

1.    Scientists would have looked at the unbalanced wheel and associated it with the pendulum.
2.    Scientists would have used the same Lee-Tseung mathematics and worked out that horizontal pulse could lead out vertical gravitational energy.
3.    Gravity wheels would have been well developed.
4.    When scientists realize that they could lead out gravitational energy, they would also know that they could lead out magnetic or electromagnetic energy.
5.    Pulse Motors would have been well developed using the electron cloud energy.  There would not be such reliance on fossil fuel.
6.    The World would have been less polluted. 
7.    Once the technology were out, every nation would have developed it.  Motionless flux change engines would have been available.
8.    When any small nation could be self-sufficient in energy, there would have been great progress in technology.  The World Order would have been different.
 
The Military of USA and China have every reason to keep such a technology secret.  The oil interests will also back them up.  There are many paid debunkers to discredit the alternative energy researchers.  Stan Meyer was poisoned.  There was an attempted car accident on Lawrence Tseung. 
 
Now that such information has been posted.  The Yuen Wheel is so easy to construct.  The Bessler Wheel secret is revealed.  There is no chance for the Military or the Oil Interests to hide the secret any more.
 
The Yuen, Chan, Ting, Tong, Wang, Laing, Newman, Bedini, Steven Mark Wheels or Devices will see day night.  Patrick Kelly will be happy that he devoted his life in documenting the alternate energy devices.  Every alternate energy researcher will be regarded as a pioneer.  Many will be richly and justifiably rewarded.
 
With Divine Guidance, the World will begin a new chapter of prosperity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 27, 2014, 08:54:29 PM
It is interesting to go back to some old posts.  For example, I was banned from besslerwheel.com:
 
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1419&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 (http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1419&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
 
The Lee-Tseung Theory was clearly described there in July 2006.  In a way, I am glad that they retained the information as Fraud in their website.  There will be no dispute that the Lee-Tseung Lead out Energy theory was actually posted.
 
I believe the reason that none of the "free energy devices" see day night is because the USA and the Chinese Military Plus the Oil Interests want to keep that a secret.  They can bring in the "mighty suppression resources" to keep the secret.  They can twist the arms of the Academics.  (Anyone in the Establishment working on Alternative Energy is automatically laughed at.)  Can they still keep the secret now???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bob Smith on October 28, 2014, 07:27:38 AM
Lawrence,
I respectfully invite you to listen to Eric Dollard's response to the question, "Would the ether hold energy?" at 45:05 in this video (I've cued it up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rQik9UC7xY&feature=player_detailpage&list=UU-41VqjATdRAlN7ztX8S30A#t=2702
He basically says that the ether stores energy and momentum. Therefore, by physically pulsing an object, I believe we would be causing the ether to release some of its momentum or inertia to essentially amplify that pulse from outside the physical confines of the object's own mass.  This, I believe, explains your lead-out theory.
Bob
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 28, 2014, 04:37:26 PM
The Yuen Wheel Parts are easier to obtain.  Purchased an old and a new 24 inch bicycle frame.  The Weights are from fishing shops.  May need to buy or make screw thread shaft to connect the two wheels.
 
Nuts may suffice to produce the friction to construct the common shaft for both wheels to rotate.  The shaft will be deliberately made longer to cater for 3 or more wheels.
 
Still within budget.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 28, 2014, 04:53:47 PM
Lawrence,
I respectfully invite you to listen to Eric Dollard's response to the question, "Would the ether hold energy?" at 45:05 in this video (I've cued it up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rQik9UC7xY&feature=player_detailpage&list=UU-41VqjATdRAlN7ztX8S30A#t=2702 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rQik9UC7xY&feature=player_detailpage&list=UU-41VqjATdRAlN7ztX8S30A#t=2702)
He basically says that the ether stores energy and momentum. Therefore, by physically pulsing an object, I believe we would be causing the ether to release some of its momentum or inertia to essentially amplify that pulse from outside the physical confines of the object's own mass.  This, I believe, explains your lead-out theory.
Bob
@Bob,

We are days away in producing the Forever Running Lead Out Energy Yuen Wheel.  I prefer to have that wheel running before commenting on the theory of others.  The Lee-Tseung Lead out energy theory using classical physics and mathematics is sufficient to explain all the detailed workings.
 
We do not need to introduce the concept of ether.  We just look the mathematics and physics associated with the simple pendulum under the action of a horizontal force....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 29, 2014, 01:36:35 PM
Most parts for the Yuen Wheel have been purchased.
 
Need the supporting frame.  That should not take too much time.
 
We shall polish the presentation to include the necessary theory and the extending to other Pulse Motors.  Let it rotate continuously for two weeks before the big announcement to the World.  Two sets will be developed.  One will stay at the Office.  Another can be loaned out.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 30, 2014, 01:13:55 PM
Have two sets of Yuen Wheels ready for testing.
 
Picture shows the less engineered set.  We tried to get preliminary figures and develop a "feel" for the "action".  Hope to have dedicated frame support for Yuen Wheel Testing next week.
 
Physicists need good engineers to back them up.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 30, 2014, 11:18:46 PM
The Yuen Wheel in its first test was ill engineered. There was much vibration, shifting of shaft position and possible loose parts and misalignments. One part with known mismatch was the axle and the bearings.  The bearing was slightly too big.  That was because of the use of the old British system and the Metric system.  The old bicycle frames used the British system and the new bearings no longer support that system
The video is now available on Youtube with Linda as the helper.
http://youtu.be/NBnZ4aVRaxg (http://youtu.be/NBnZ4aVRaxg)
 
 
With a well tuned and properly engineered set up, a hard pull with two unweighted wheels should rotate for a few minutes. The present hastily tested Yuen Wheel only rotated for less than a minute and achieved only 30 turns approximately.
 
 
Much more engineering needs to be done before we can claim success.
 
 
 
However, we have the basic platform to start testing.  We can test
 
1.    Unweighted pair of wheels
 
2.    One unweighted Wheel A and one weight on Wheel B.
 
3.    One weight on Wheel A and one weight on Wheel B.
 
4.    Two weights on Wheel A and one weight on Wheel B
 
5.    Two weights on Wheel A and two weights on Wheel B
 
6.    Three Weights on Wheel A and two Weights on Wheel B
 
7.    Three Weights on Wheel A and three weights on Wheel B.
 
 
 
From the Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory, every time a weight reaches the lowest position with maximum velocity, it will generate the highest centrifugal force.  That action will bring in gravitational energy.  Thus one weight represents one pulse per revolution; two weights represent two pulses per revolution etc.
 
 
 
For hand rotation, we believe a maximum of 6 weights is sufficient.  We can space the weights evenly in the first tests. (e.g. two weight at 180 degrees apart; three weights at 120 degrees apart; six weights at 60 degrees apart etc.)  We can calibrate carefully.
 
 
 
The hastily tested Yuen Wheel with six weights rotated for more than 2 minutes and over 100 turns.  The axle shifted and touched the omega bearing.  The test was stopped so that the engineers could check it out and new tests may have to be done on the better engineered set.  The Yuen Wheel may have its dedicated and firmer frame to do future testing.
 
There are other parameters that can be tested.  These include different diameters of wheels, different weights, more wheels, lower friction set ups etc.  However, we should have proper test results for the present set up before introducing other parameters.
 
 
 
The direction appears promising.  The ball is now in the court of the engineers.  May the Almighty bless them.  Amen.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 31, 2014, 09:39:31 PM
Did the first dry run presentation last night.

Comments include:

1. The most convincing video is the Milkovic 2SO pendulum.  I looked but did not see years ago.  Now I am convinced that the lifting of the weight is from the increased clockwise moment.  The Energy is brought in from gravity.  The amplitude of swing of the pendulum did not significantly decrease.  I should have seen it years ago.
 
2. I like the slide on the horizontal pendulum best.  Once I accepted that gravitational energy can be lead out via the pulse pendulum, all I needed was the link to leading out magnetic and electromagnetic energy.  That slide provided the link.  It readily led to the pulse motors with large drive coils and rotating magnets.
 
3. I can smell the revival of the Bessler Wheel.  The video showed a failed attempt.  But it showed the importance of engineering and the need for a large wheel.  The large wheel provided the high centrifugal force to overcome friction and do extra work.  The placing of the weights is the secret.
 
4. Call me again after better engineering.  I shall bring the snacks for every one.
 
5. I do not mind contributing another HK$1,000 if you name the Wheel - Cheung Wheel - in honor of the late founder of the Hong Kong Invention Club, Mr. Cheung King Fung.  Place that Cheung Wheel in the Office of the Hong Kong Invention Club and let it rotate forever.  That will be an inspiration to all future inventors.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 01, 2014, 07:00:33 AM
Suggestion from a mechanical engineers who now owns a chain of fast food restaurants.
 
You should check on some Office Toys that has elements of pendulum, seesaw and rotation.  With a gentle push, they can rotate for a long time.  You may be able to enhance them with magnets placed in the right places.
 
You can save money and time.  May be the toy manufacturer will improve their toys with your enhancement and let such toys lead out energy and rotate forever.  Such toys cost only a few US dollars.  Many are made in China.
http://www.officeplayground.com/Surfer-Balance-Mobile-P1456.aspx (http://www.officeplayground.com/Surfer-Balance-Mobile-P1456.aspx)
 
I am more interested in the Tong or Ting Wheels that can deliver real electrical power for the home.  I saw the WITTS 40KW generator video before but I did not believe it.  Now I am not so sure...
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 01, 2014, 10:57:44 PM
Completing the Lee-Tseung Lead out Energy Theory.
 
The two attached slides say it all.
 
The Theory is now complete.  Let the Engineers take over.  Let them shine and benefit the World.  Amen.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 03, 2014, 11:23:32 PM
While waiting for the Engineers to build the frame and re-engineer the axles etc, we discussed the possible addition of the seesaw element to the Yuen Wheel.
1.  Do not do it unless absolutely necessary.
2. An Unbalanced Wheel Rotation is like a person jumping up and down on a scale.  The reading on the scale will sometimes be higher and sometimes lower than the actual weight of the person.
3. The two Unbalanced Wheels of the Yuen Wheel will provide the seesaw action because of the placing of the Weights.  One Weight on each Wheel may be sufficient.
4. If the Milkovic 2SO can lead out gravitational energy via the combination of the swinging and seesaw action, the modified Yuen Wheel must be able to.
5. The Engineering is likely to be less than that of the Chan Wheel.
6. The Officeplayground.com serfer toy may indeed lead out gravitational energy.  That may explain that even with all the movement, a gentle push can cause very long period of movement.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 04, 2014, 02:07:44 AM
New paper by Jovan Marjanovic

Dry Friction and the Milkovic Effect

The goal of this paper is to exclude dry friction as a cause of the increased duration of oscillation of a pendulum when compared to the rotation of a wheel, starting after the initiation of their movement and waiting until the movement is stopped by itself. Since this phenomenon was discovered by Veljko Milkovic, an inventor and a member of the academy of inventors of Serbia (SAIN), the author has chosen to name it the Milkovic Effect. The opinion of the author is that this phenomenon is complementary to the Aspden Effect, which will be further discussed in this paper, along with other inertial anomalies known to the author.

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Dry_Friction_and_the_Milkovic_Effect.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Dry_Friction_and_the_Milkovic_Effect.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 04, 2014, 06:35:56 PM
First test results with the new frame and new bearings for the Yuen Wheel.
 
The most surprising result with the supposed better engineered Yuen Wheel is that the result was much worse.  For free rotation with no weights, the number of rotations dropped from 30 to 7.  For the best result with 6 weights, the number of rotations dropped from 150 to 40.
 
The probable cause is the large bearing producing much higher friction.  Shall buy new small bearings to repeat experiment.  Choice of parts is important.
Youtube video showed that the number of rotations with 6 weights decreased.  The son of Mr. Peter Chan was the helper.
http://youtu.be/H714X0fJxKk (http://youtu.be/H714X0fJxKk)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 04, 2014, 10:59:15 PM
Have you degreased the bearings and used a dry lube,, something like graphite?

This can reduce the frictional losses at low speeds a fair amount.

No.  Please keep posting your good suggestions.
 
The Yuen and Chan Wheel experiments taught me an important lesson.  A concept may look easy and simple on paper.  Turning that concept into reality may require super human effort.
 
The buying of old bicycle wheels appeared to be a good idea.  In realily, we could not get matching pairs easily.  The Yuen Wheel will exceed buget as we start to experiment with the 4 wheel configuration.
 
May the Lord guide and bless the Engineers.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 05, 2014, 05:22:33 PM
When I was scavenging parts to build Franken Bike I found it cheaper to buy an old used bike or two than to buy just the parts I needed.

It looks like you are using a piece of all-thread for your axle,, if so I would not suggest using that since it is not always round.  Also with that, the threads themselves lead to stress cracks and provide for a nice spot for things to bend,, so pulsing the weight will flex the all-thread much more than a solid rod.

I will use either aluminum or copper tape to "shim" an undersized axle up,, if it is really close I will use Super Glue with a little talcum powered mixed in ,, or baking soda,, or anything I can find that is really fine or I will stake the axle where the bearing inner race is going to sit,, staking is taking a center punch and making a bunch of uniform indentations on the axle in the area the race will be,, the dimples in also mean the metal has been pushed up and out making the diameter a little larger.

Good luck with your build!

Thank you for your suggestions.  Tried the 4 wheel configuration.  The shaft was bent slightly.  Number of rotations increased but did not double as expected.  Shall place the wheels close together.  Two inside the frame.
Youtube video on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKrVsMKG_9I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKrVsMKG_9I)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 05, 2014, 09:46:45 PM
 
I am going to provide the actual test data for all to examine and make suggestions.
 
The attached first results here were done on Oct 30, 2014 by Lawrence Tseung and Peter Chan.
 
The Frame was borrowed from Chan Wheel. A video with the helper Linda was done. It was important to have the videos because results might not always be reproducible.  The reasons include:
 
 
 
1.    The two bearing alignments were judged by eye and feel.  Slight misalignment could produce considerable friction.
 
2.    The threaded shaft did not fit the bearings exactly.
 
3.    There was detectable shaking as the wheels were unbalanced.
 
4.    The weight positions were estimated and were not accurate.
 
5.    Shifting of shaft was detected.
 
 
 
The best result was with 3 weights on Wheel A at 0, 120, 240 and 3 weights on Wheel B at 60, 180 and 300 degree positions.  The result might have been better if not for the shifting of the shaft.  Careful examination of the video showed possibility of leading out of gravitational energy.  At slow (dying) rotations, the sudden accelerations were clearly visible.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 06, 2014, 04:23:10 PM
video for the 4 wheels close together Yuen Wheel.
http://youtu.be/pyVcvw_uWcs (http://youtu.be/pyVcvw_uWcs)
 
Note the many accelerations when the rotational speed started to slow down.  Such accelerations represented pulsing that would lead out gravitational energy.  The weights should be arranged so that the pulsings reinforce the rotation similar to pushing the swing at the right time.  We still had not mastered the technique yet.  We may reduce the number of weights and experiment more.
 
If a large wheel were used, such timing can be easier.  The energy lead-out or bring-in will be larger and the weights can be heavier.  This is the reason why Bessler went for large wheels.
 
The theory and the general direction is correct.  The engineering was still not correct.  The best number of revolutions was only 70 turns with the 4-wheel configuration.  We did not get close to the 150 revolutions when we used the Chan Wheel Frame on Oct 31.  We shall try to tune more.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 06, 2014, 09:18:40 PM
We shall make our first presentation to investors this afternoon.  Attached is the planned presentation.
 
The key points we want to get across are:
1.  The Lead-out Energy Theory is not patentable.  It has been out for over 8 years.  However, many products based on it may be patentable (if not already patented).  Our goal is to benefit humanity.  The World will have abundant, easy to access and non-polluting energy.
2.  When we can continuously lead-out or bring-in external energy, the "device" can run forever.  However, that is NOT the impossible perpetual motion machine that violates the Law of Conservation of Energy.  It is the lead-out or bring-in energy machine.
3.  Many looked at the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum for years but did not see.  It clearly brings in gravitational energy during the lifting of the Weight.  The amplitude of pendulum does not decrease.
4.  The Chan Wheel clearly demonstrated Balanced Rotation will not produce the Jumping Effect of Unbalanced Wheels.
5.  The Yuen Wheel is likely to be the long lost Bessler Wheel.
6.  If we can bring-in gravitational energy, we can definitely bring-in magnetic and electromagnetic energy.  This can be confirmed by the horizontal pendulum.
7. Pulse systems are now easy to understand.  They can bring-in electromagnetic energy and self running is not only theoretically possible.  The WITTS youtube video clearly showed that.
8. Bedini, Tong, Ting, Chas Campbell wheels are theoretically sound and they lead-out Electron Cloud Energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 07, 2014, 10:27:06 PM
The presentation to the Investor Group was successful.
 
 
We started with a presentation at the Office of the Investor Group. The presentation in the previous posting was used. There were many questions. One of their researchers actually studied the postings in this thread thoroughly. He was able to quote the answers from this thread and more. He made quite an impression in front of his peers.
 
 
We then visited the Office of Mr. Peter Chan.  Both the Yuen and the uncompleted Chan Wheels were shown.  The comment on Yuen Wheel was that it might be the long lost Bessler Wheel but much more work would be needed.  The engineering effort is likely to require much more than judging by eye and feel.  (I have poor eyesight and the retired Peter Chan does not score much better.)  We relied on helpers without the vigorous scientific training and sophisticated equipment.  Aligning the two bearings with minimum friction was already a big problem.
 
 
 
The focus on the uncompleted Chan Wheel was on the difference between Balanced and Unbalanced Wheel.  Unbalanced Wheel has the element of jumping.  This jumping (treated as pendulum oscillation) was the key element in leading out or bringing in gravitational energy.  We all used our hands to feel the action of the moving weight W1 when the Unbalanced Wheel was demonstrated.  The comment: “It hurts when it hits the hand.”  They were all convinced of the importance of the Pendulum Action of the Unbalanced Wheel.
 
 
We then went to the Office of Dr. Raymond Ting to see the Ting Wheel in action.  The Input was 24V DC at 2 Amps or 50 watts approximately.  The Output was a fan, a refrigerator and four 60 watt light bulbs at 240 volts AC.  The estimated Output Power was 340 watts.  That gave a COP of 6.8.  The COP would vary with the load.  Pictures were taken.  The decision from the Investor Group was to ask for a proper Business Plan and enter into the proper scientific examination process.  Dr. Ting decided to keep all information confidential so as not to jeopardize the negotiation.  Dr. Ting enlisted the help of Mr. Kevin Lee on the business side.
 
 
The job of Lawrence Tseung is now done.  Tseung will order the “kinetic perpetual toys” from Officeplayground.com – especially the serfer.  That toy has elements of pendulum, seesaw and unbalanced rotation.  The cost is less than US$2.  The pressure on further developing the Chan and Yuen Wheel was off.  They will be treated as fun projects.  They may even be given to some younger ones willing to take on the challenge.
 
 
The final comment from the Investor Group was: “We read and heard about overunity devices for years.  This is the first time we actually saw and touched one.  If the technical evaluation results are positive, you can count on our investing.”
 
The 225 HP Pulse Motor is no hoax.  Will the USA or Chinese Military release it to the General Public?
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on November 07, 2014, 11:23:17 PM
ltseung888,

If you can remove all friction and air resistance your Chan Wheel should spin forever.  ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 08, 2014, 02:38:39 AM
ltseung888,

If you can remove all friction and air resistance your Chan Wheel should spin forever.  ;D
We are more ambitious.  We want to reproduce the Bessler Wheel.  The Chan or Yuan wheels should spin and produce some power forever.  We want to bring in gravitational energy to do that.  Now, the Ting Wheel has demonstrated that with bringing in both gravitational and magnetic energy.  It has much more power.
 
It is almost a repeat of human powered flight.  The actual  airplane flew for decades before the first successful human powered flight.  I expect the focus will now be on Pulse Motors, followed by motionless flux change motors.  The pure mechanical Wheels will be treated as toys of little practical value.
 
Long live the Pendulum and the Unbalanced Wheel!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 08, 2014, 11:15:52 PM
 Analysis of the Presentation Slides in reply 2303:

That Presentation is likely to be the one circulated in the coming weeks.  We shall wait for the Officeplayground.com toys and the official result of the evaluation of the Ting Wheel before heavy promotion.  The success of the Chan or the Yuen Wheels will be bonuses.  There will be strong possibility of other wheels joining our promotion (e.g. Laing, Wang, Tong etc.)
 
Slide 1:
The Title puts emphasis on Unbalanced Wheels.  In order to lead out or bring in gravitational or electromagnetic energy, we need some “oscillation action”.  The pulsed pendulum and the Milkovic 2 stage oscillator are known devices that will cause such “oscillation action”.  The unbalanced wheel has been ignored for centuries.  The focus brings it back to its proper place.
 
Slide 2:
This is the standard Lead out energy device slide since 2004.
 
Slide 3:
This slide highlights the “jumping” element of the Unbalanced Wheel.  This jumping is the “oscillation action”.
 
Slide 4:
This is the most important slide in terms of showing the bringing in of gravitational energy.  We must carefully show the video.  Many people looked at it for years but did not see.  This is the right time to open their eyes.  Pause for comments may be useful.
 
Slide 5:
The comparison with Pendulum and Unbalanced Wheel is the key to understanding the rest of the presentation.
 
Slide 6:
Introduce the Chan Wheel.
 
Slide 7:
The power of the Chan Wheel at present is showing the difference between Balanced Wheel and Unbalanced Wheel.  If one does not jump, one cannot bring in gravitational energy.  Making one heavier will not do it.  Jumping will.  Jumping at the right frequency is even better.
 
Slide 8:
Can the Yuen Wheel be the long lost Bessler Wheel?
 
Slide 9:
More Wheels and more Weights do not necessarily help.  They have to be placed at the right positions.  Show the Video that has the wheel rotated for over 100 turns with a gentle pull.
 
Slide 10:
The Peru (Chalkalis) Energy Multiplier is the inspiration behind the Yuen Wheel.  Show the Video.  Hammer in the concept of the Unbalanced Wheel.
 
Slide 11:
This is the link to bringing in magnetic or electromagnetic energy.  Spend time or pause until the concept sinks in.
 
Slide 12:
The link to the various Pulse Motors is firmly established.  These Pulse Motors bring in magnetic or electromagnetic energy that can be hundreds or thousands times the gravitational energy.  That makes success of the Chan or Yuen Wheel unnecessary.
 
Slide 13:
Discuss the various Pulse Motors.  Bedini Wheel is a good candidate as much information is available on the Internet.
 
Slide 14:
The 225 HP Pulse Motor was the incentive energy behind the Lee and Tseung Efforts.  That Motor and the subsequent action of the USA and Chinese Governments convinced Lee and Tseung that their theory is correct beyond any shadow of doubt.
 
Slide 15:
The Tong Wheel was the first attempt to simulate one slice of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.  The Output was in watts and was not convincing to the average scientists.  But it pointed in the right direction.  The second generation that can generate one HP is likely to be the demonstration prototype.
 
Slide 16:
The Ting Wheel is now the focus of Investors.  It is undergoing vigorous scientific investigation by potential Investors.  The principle is clear.  The demonstration is convincing.  The Investors have seen and touched it.  Their technical guys will confirm that it is no hoax.
 
Slide 17:
It is always good to have other inventions to confirm the theory.  The WITTS Generator is a good prototype to show.  Make sure the audience see that video  (especially if they are not in Hong Kong and cannot access the Ting Wheel).
 
Slide 18:
The concept of starting a small motor to lead out energy to drive a bigger generator/motor and then let the bigger motor take over totally is no longer a dream.  The Chas Campbell Device and the WITTS device are working examples.
 
Slide 19:
Review of the Lee-Tseung Lead Out Energy Theory using the pulsed (horizontally pulled) pendulum.
 
Slide 20:
Review of the Milkovic 2 Stage Pendulum.  By now, the participants should have no doubts that it does bring in gravitational energy at the moment of lifting the weight W1.
 
Slide 21:
Review of the Energy Multiplier.  It was not multiplying energy.  It was bringing in gravitational or electromagnetic energy.
 
Slide 22:
Can the Yuen Wheel be the long lost Bessler Wheel?  (Tseung is willing to give the present sets of Yuen Wheels for other inventors in Hong Kong to further study and improve.)
 
Slide 23:
Thank you to another Engineer who owned the Officeplayground.com toy at one time.  He told us that the less than US$2 toy already had elements of pendulum, seesaw and rotation.  It may be leading out gravitational energy already.  The video was convincing.  Such toys are easy to carry and can be given as gifts to potential investors.
 
Slide 24:
That completes the Lee-Tseung Theory.  The leading out of magnetic or electromagnetic energy is the leading out of Electron Cloud Energy.  That will not violate any Laws of Physics.  With theory and working prototypes, the Lead Out Energy Systems will see day night.  They will benefit the entire human race.
 
Hopefully, anyone can use the presentation slides effectively.  Amen.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 09, 2014, 10:51:58 AM
The Taiwan device (QEG) Quantum Energy Generator (Fix the World) fixtheworldproject.org
 
http://revolution-green.com/quantum-energy-generator-qeg-3-hopegirl-video/ (http://revolution-green.com/quantum-energy-generator-qeg-3-hopegirl-video/)
 
They got the information from Timothy Thrapp of WITTS and improved it.  They are "giving" the knowledge freely to the World.  The following youtube is worth watching multiple times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKE5DJRMFQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKE5DJRMFQ)

They achieved resonance in the first video which means the lead out energy is greatly increased.  Push the swing at the right time or jump up and down at the right frequency.  The Tong or Ting Wheels have not achieved that yet.  Instead of the pulsing from an unbalanced wheel, they use a tank circuit to provide the resonance pulsing.  There is much less physical vibration.

 
The 225 HP Pulse Motor is no hoax.  Large amount of power is possible.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 09, 2014, 11:38:48 PM
QEG Germany video
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVFMv4A_Rbs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVFMv4A_Rbs)
 
In that video, it stated that over 1,000 Chinese Engineers are working on it.  The Lee-Tseung Lead out Energy Theory was presented at Tsinghua University (MIT of China) in 2006. 
 
The rumor was that the 225 HP Pulse Motor had been tried out on tanks etc.  Will the QEG with no patent rights be mass produced in China?  Or will it be the Wang, Tong or Ting Wheels?
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 10, 2014, 06:09:58 AM
 http://www.rarenergia.com.br/ (http://www.rarenergia.com.br/)

We will build in Porto Alegre, at Av. Patria, 195 - a power generator that started by a mechanic system, and exclusively powered by the gravity force.

 It will be the first equipment with this technology in the world.

 We have a small machine for experience and testing in our headquarter at Av. Pedro Ivo,933. The mechanic system was created under a special conception, to pick up and take the energy contained in the planet gravity, at any moment and place, without pollution or heat. Technology was completely developed by our Company and consists in a continuos movement with some extra energy that can be taken, in a continuous and perpetual mechanic movement. This equipment is similar to a combustion engine, where a set of wheights represent the fuel and pistons that activate assemblies connected to a crankshaft. Another similar equipment will be built in the U.S.A. at the Incobrasa  Industries Ltd plant, a Company of the group, located in Gilman, IL. Both equipment are demonstration models with capacity to generate 30 KW, and will be ready in the middle of the next year. The technique allows the building of great power generators.

RAR Energia Ltda.
 
Our Chan and Yuen Wheels cost at most a few hundred US dollars.  The right decision may be to buy the officeplayground.com toy for a few US Dollars.  The Theory is already clearly explained.  Why waste extra effort and resources?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 10, 2014, 09:38:08 AM
As expected, my computer was hacked and everything was gone.  fortunately, I backed up every important post.
 
For now, any email from me is suspect.
 
I shall check whether the posts here are really from me. 
 
God Bless,
 
Lawrence Tseung
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 10, 2014, 01:53:24 PM
An actual magnetic perpetual motion toy from China:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsGoTLGPEI0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsGoTLGPEI0)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 10, 2014, 09:56:41 PM
        Tasks to be done by the Tong or Ting Wheel developers now that Investors are interested.
 
1.  Confirmation of Overunity.  This can be done by standard meters, oscilloscopes or calorimeters.  This is the first job of the technical experts from the Investors.  If this is not confirmed, nothing will happen.   From what I have seen, the Output is in hundreds or thousands of watts while the Input is in tens of watts.  This should not post a problem.
 
2.  Resonance hunting similar to the Quantum Energy Generator.  The Pulse Circuits and the arrangement of the magnets and coils are not theoretically determined.  They were chosen after much experimentation.  The QEG showed that resonance occurred at around 400 hertz with their configuration.  The energy output at resonance is much higher and the device is targeted to use such energy.  The Oscilloscope should help in the resonance hunting.
 
3 Involvement of the Academics.  The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Energy is out.  The many posts in this thread by ltseung888 should be thoroughly examined by the top Universities especially when Overunity is confirmed.  The QEG is forcing the academics to re-examine their teachings.  They may come out with another new theory but the Lee-Tseung Theory is already available for confirmation.
 
4.  Addition of the Unbalanced Wheel.  The use of an Unbalanced Wheel as a Flywheel will greatly increase the torque but it will also greatly increase the shaking as Dr. Ting experienced.  This must be done carefully as safety is of primary concern in a consumer environment.  If electronic pulsing can do the job, we should avoid physical pulsing or shaking.  For academic research, this is not a problem.

5.  The first product can be a 5KW unit for Asian and European homes.  US homes can buy two units.  Aim for mass production to reduce costs.  License to other Companies and get royalties.
 
6.  The second product can be a battery recharger for electric cars.  The electric cars will never need to recharge their batteries at charging stations.  If the USA and Chinese Military are willing, they may release the 225 HP Pulse Motor so that the electric cars will be much more efficient with fewer batteries.
 
7.  The promotion effort is likely to involve Governments.  This is a paradigm shift technology that will affect the future of all Nations.  Hong Kong is very special in that it is relatively free – the students are allowed to occupy Central for weeks.  The theory and some products are produced in Hong Kong.  Hong Kong can easily be turned into a “Mecca” of Lead Out Energy Machines.

8.  Making Money.  The easiest way is to print money as practiced by USA, Japan, China and many other Governments.  The Lead Out Energy Devices should be used to benefit all Humanity.  They should not be vehicles to make the rich richer (and the poor poorer).  Thus the goal is to produce quality products with the necessary safety.  It can be compared to opening restaurants – there can be many different styles to suit all tastes.  There should not be patent disputes or lawsuits to hinder the introduction of such technology.  May the best “restaurants” serve more customers.

God Bless.
 
Lawrence Tseung (working from a backup computer)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: aaron5120 on November 11, 2014, 07:15:30 AM
There is another mechanical device already operational in Taiwan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtPK2B_xU70
I think you guys can go there and buy one from the old man, who already got a patent for his flywheel.
FYI, the COP of this thinggy is 9.0 already.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 12, 2014, 12:25:59 AM
There is another mechanical device already operational in Taiwan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtPK2B_xU70 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtPK2B_xU70)
I think you guys can go there and buy one from the old man, who already got a patent for his flywheel.
FYI, the COP of this thinggy is 9.0 already.

We have enough Wheels in Hong Kong.  The first group of Investors was interested in the Ting Wheel.  They introduced me to another world famous group yesterday.
 
The comments and the discussion afterwards include:
 
1.  They will find qualified third party experts to do the technical evaluation.  That will be the first step.
 
2.  They have heard and read many overunity devices on the Internet.  They also met many inventors with claimed working prototypes.  So far they have not invested in any one of them. 
 
3.  They are aware of Tesla Motors.  I told them that the US Company I introduced the technology to was "in bed" with Tesla Motors.  The impression is that Tesla Motors may be able to have a car that will not need to be recharged externally.  The recharging will be done by a lead out energy machine inside the car.
 
4.  After the meeting, some discussion with Dr. Ting and others were interesting.  One was that we need a good Company Image.  An old man with bad eyesight, bad hearing, missing tooth and poor health does not present a good image for a paradigm shift technology.
 
5.  A team is needed.  The goal is to produce the 5KW home unit within one year.  The QEG is out and over 1,000 Chinese engineers are rumored to be working on it already.  Dr. Ting believes that he can do it with the appropriate support.
 
6.  A young person trusted by Dr. Ting (his son) should start taking over the negotiations.  Dr. Ting does not speak English. 
 
7.  The Investors are bound to look at other overunity devices.  It is a matter of competition just like opening restaurants. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 13, 2014, 08:45:01 PM
The Quantum Energy Generator from FixtheWorldProject.org.
 
The QEG is getting much attention with over 60 teams working on it in many Countries.  It is based on the WITTS 40KW self running generator.  The Blue prints of QEG so far have not included the looping yet.  It is a matter of time.
 
The Principle of the QEG is based on Resonance.  I expect that the Electron Cloud Energy is lead out or brought in at resonance.  Even with the simple Yuen Wheel, we have to adjust the position of the weights to get the higher number of revolutions.  It is similar in principle to pushing the swing at the right time.
 
Congratulations to Timothy Thrapp of WITTS and the QEG teams for achieving resonance and bringing that energy at resonance to do useful work.  The secret is the tank resonance circuit.  The core is a huge Coil or Inductor.  This is matched with large external capacitors.  The rotor speed provides the resonance matching.  Their resonance frequency occurred at around 400 hertz.  That value may change some what with the actual core and capacitors used.  The resonance shows itself as very high voltage.  That high voltage is then transformed down to low voltage and higher current.  The lead out energy output is much more than the energy required to achieve and maintain resonance.
 
The WITTS video claimed that 40KW was produced at one time.  Self loop and maintenance was demonstrated by unplugging from the mains.  Some people claimed that it was a hoax because they did not hear the motor slowing down.  At resonance, there is no need to slow down.  (The Milkovic 2 stage pendulum does not decrease its swing amplitude when lifting the Weight.) 
 
If we aim for 5KW only, there could be material and cost reduction.  The Pulse Motors such as the Ting Wheel will need a “resonance hunt”.
 
We are learning much from one another.  Directed by the Divine?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 15, 2014, 01:18:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xj_XUWKiIM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xj_XUWKiIM)
 
Taiwan inventor announced overunity generator at press conference.  40 watts input can generate 300 watts output.  A group of 6 units will generate 1800 watts.  This is enough for the averge home in Taiwan.
 
Such COP is in the same range as the Ting Wheel today.  With unbalanced wheel and/or resonance tuning, the Ting Wheel is expected to output 5KW.
 
The World is small.  The OU devices are all coming out now.  They have to beat the QEG.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 15, 2014, 10:45:54 PM
I placed an important post in the other QEG thread.  The following post by the QEG team from Taiwan is very informative.  It is in Chinese and contains more insight than the original documents.
 
   http://non-mainstream-research.blogspot.hk/2014/04/qeg.html (http://non-mainstream-research.blogspot.hk/2014/04/qeg.html)
 The two important diagrams are attached.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 16, 2014, 01:55:38 AM
         Explaining the workings of the QEG from the point of view of the LEE-TSEUNG lead out energy theory.
 
1.  The QEG has a Tank Circuit or a LCR circuit.  L is provided by the large Coil.  C is provided by the large number of capacitors.  R is provided by the resistance of the Coil and other elements in the circuit.
 
2.  Such a Tank Circuit can produce resonance at a given frequency.  The QEG is designed to have resonance at 400 Hertz.  Resonance shows itself as an increase in amplitude of Voltage (and/or Current). Such a frequency at 400 Hertz will produce audible sound.  This makes tuning much easier.
 
3.  At resonance, Energy from the Environment can be lead out or brought in.  In the First Divine Revelation of the LEE-TSEUNG theory, sound resonance can bring in the kinetic energy of air molecules.  In the Second Divine Revelation, a horizontally pulsed pendulum can bring in gravitational energy.  In the Third Divine Revelation, magnetic or electromagnetic energy can be brought in similar to a pulsed pendulum. 
 
4.  In the latest Divine Revelation, the lead out energy in the last case is the Electron Cloud Energy.  Chemical Energy comes from Electron Cloud Energy.  Different Compounds of same elements contain different Electron Cloud Energies.  Chemical reactions change the Electron Clouds of the Compounds and thus releases chemical energy.  We can now release such Electron Cloud Energies without chemical reactions.  There is no violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy if we use such Electron Cloud Energy.
 
5.  The QEG brings in the Electron Cloud Energy via an Excitation circuit (Spark gap and capcitor) and the rotation of the axle.  The rotational speed of the axle can be changed by an external motor.  There is nothing magic about changing the rotational speed.  It is standard electrical engineering.  Once the rotational speed matches the resonance frequency, large amount of lead out electron cloud energy enters the system.  Such a situation is demonstrated by a large increase in brightness of the light bulbs.
 
6.  The amount of lead out electron cloud energy is likely to be governed by the excitation sources.  These include the amplitude of the excitation (size of the spark gap, voltage, current and value of the capacitor), the construction of the rotating shaft (shape, material and construction), the Coil Winding, the secondary coils, and may be some unidentified elements.
 
7.  Resonance can be maintained by rotating at the correct speed.  The lead out energy can last at resonance forever.  It is a matter of bringing such energy out to be used by ordinary electrical appliances.  The WITTS device claimed to generate 40KW.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor can generate over 150KW.  I believe it is a matter of tuning the components mentioned in point 6.
 
8.  It may even be possible or better to excite the tank circuit with a separate DC circuit as in most pulse motors.  The amplitude of the Pulse Current can then be increased easily.
 
9.  With sufficient lead out electron cloud energy, we can power electrical appliances and do self loop (and recharge any battery if needed). 
 
The most important element in all the discussion is that at resonance, we can lead out the Electron Cloud Energy.  This amount of lead out energy is not dependent on the Input energy of the rotating motor.  In fact, the rotational speed does not need to decrease at resonance!  Many engineers did not hear a reduction in motor speed at resonance and concluded that the WITTS device was a hoax.  They need to re-learn.
 
I shall be working with the China and Taiwan QEG Groups.  The chance of our success is high because we have the LEE-TSEUNG lead out energy theory to guide the development.
 
God Bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 16, 2014, 02:55:32 AM
Hi Lawrence. This video was posted recently to overunity.com.
I believe it uses a rocking lever with fixed magnets to cause a flywheel with fixed magnets to spin by magnetic interaction.
Thought you might be interested. It is not self running, but the guy is looking for suggestions to improve his device...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=UetZl09h5ng

By the way, the WITTS people appear quite shady, reportedly charging people lots of
money for plans and 'training' which still does not provide people with enough information to build
a working self running device. Very questionable people. I am personally not aware of anyone who built a device
from WITTS that actually self runs. For example the QEG folks do not have a self running device although they apparently
already paid a lot of money to WITTS for plans and training. In my own opinion, it is not a good idea at all to associate serious
research with anything to do with WITTS. Just my own opinion.

All the best...


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 16, 2014, 04:32:43 PM
I always use DC to get resonance in tank circuits.  In the QEG set up, the exciter circuit apparently uses AC.  Am I mistaken?
 
With AC, there is always pulsing in the opposite direction.  If this is not perfectly in sync, it is like someone pushing the swing back at you before the maximum amplitude is achieved.  The swing may still move but not at its highest efficiency.  Line AC is at 50 or 60 hertz - not 400 as designed.
 
QEG founder James already stated that the plan he got from WITTS were not complete.  He had to modify and innovate.  May be the lack of sufficient output to provide loopback is due to using AC instead of DC?
 
We changed the pendulum to unbalanced wheel on the Milkovic 2SO with excellent results.  Can changing AC to DC work similar miracles with QEG?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on November 16, 2014, 04:35:47 PM

 
1.  The QEG has a Tank Circuit or a LCR circuit.  L is provided by the large Coil.  C is provided by the large number of capacitors.  R is provided by the resistance of the Coil and other elements in the circuit.
Don't forget that the essence of a tank circuit (and its resonance) is that it must be driven by an oscillating power source.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 16, 2014, 04:43:43 PM
Don't forget that the essence of a tank circuit (and its resonance) is that it must be driven by an oscillating power source.

The spark gap already provides the oscillating source, we do not need mains AC to vibrate at the wrong frequency.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 17, 2014, 12:23:48 AM
At my age and experience, I start to like Fixtheworldproject.org more and more.
 
Their philosophy of disclosing and sharing what they know even if that is incomplete starts to excite me.
 
The Milkovic 2SO is already an overunity or lead out energy device.  The swing amplitude does not decrease when the weight is lifted.
 
We just changed the pendulum to unbalanced wheel and we have the same effect.  In other words, we already have an OU device in the form of the Chan Wheel.  If we stop at this stage and tell the World, almost every garage mechanic can have an OU device.
 
All we need to show is the horizontal pendulum and every scientist will know that they can lead out magnetic or electromagnetic energy.
 
The more exact theory is that we lead out the Electron Cloud Energy and thus do not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.
 
Do we actually need to build a 5KW electricity generator ourselves?  Can we entrust that job to the younger generation?  Some produced the 225 HP Pulse Motor and their work became
"top secret".
 
The commercial dollar sign kept the Tong, Ting Wheels confidential.  That is likely to make the rich richer.  Is that the Divine Way???
 
I shall devote effort in making the QEG the 5KW open source unit. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 17, 2014, 01:03:36 AM
I always use DC to get resonance in tank circuits.  In the QEG set up, the exciter circuit apparently uses AC.  Am I mistaken?
With AC, there is always pulsing in the opposite direction.  If this is not perfectly in sync, it is like someone pushing the swing back at you before the maximum amplitude is achieved.  The swing may still move but not at its highest efficiency.  Line AC is at 50 or 60 hertz - not 400 as designed.
QEG founder James already stated that the plan he got from WITTS were not complete.  He had to modify and innovate.  May be the lack of sufficient output to provide loopback is due to using AC instead of DC?
We changed the pendulum to unbalanced wheel on the Milkovic 2SO with excellent results.  Can changing AC to DC work similar miracles with QEG?

Hi Lawrence. For the QEG, they were trying an antenna and an earth ground, which if not rectified using a
diode or diodes, would be picking up AC signals. I am not sure if they are still trying this approach or not.

To drive a tank circuit with DC, you would need to consider the following.
When you have a tank circuit, i.e., a capacitor and inductor (coil) in parallel, you cannot
apply DC (positive and negative leads of the DC source) directly across the tank circuit because the coil in the tank
circuit will be a short circuit to DC. This is true if the spark gap is also parallel to the tank circuit. However, if the
sparkgap is in series between the capacitor and coil, then if you have a high enough DC voltage to
cause the sparkgap to arc over, you can then use DC to continually charge the capacitor and to fire the
sparkgap at fairly regular intervals determined by the current capacity of the HV DC source and the
size of the capacitor. This is a common way that the primary coil of a tesla coil can be driven using a
parallel capacitor and sparkgap in series, for example.

See the attached schematic diagram to see how this would work.
This diagram shows a HV AC signal being rectified to HV DC first using a HV bridge rectifier diode arrangement,
and the resulting HV DC is then used to charge the capacitor. If you already have a HV DC source, you don't
need to rectify to using the bridge rectifier diodes.
All the best....

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 17, 2014, 10:47:04 PM
Shall work with others in Hong Kong who are interested in the qeg.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 18, 2014, 10:15:00 PM
We know that the Milkovic 2SO leads out gravitational energy when the centrifugal force plus weight of the unbalanced wheel produces higher moments.  The observable effect is the lifting of the Weight.  It occurs at a given frequency (resonance)?
 
What is the observable effect of the QEG?  Is it just the brightness of the light bulbs?  If the energy comes from the Electron Cloud, will there be other signs?  Will the laminated core go into physical vibration?  The laminated core is the most likely place to be influenced by Magnetic flux?  Is the louder noise from the physical vibration of the laminated core?
 
If that were the case, are there other ways to get the laminated core to vibrate and get into resonnce?  Can a transformer type set up do it?  Is the Steve Mark Type device a type of transformer set up?
 
In Stan Meyer fuel cell, the hydrogen generation unit can be a huge capacitor?  The device uses DC and Choke (inductor).  It is possible that the device is using resonance energy to do the electrolysis?
 
Once we accept that we can bring in electromagnetic energy from the environment into a lead out energy system without violatig the Law of Conservation of Energy, we should start looking at the actual mechanism.  If the Electron Cloud energy comes from the laminated core material, can we use other methods to get it into resonance?  Motionless device better than the QEG is definitely possible.
 
Divine Guidance?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 19, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
There were comments that the same axle makes the two unbalanced wheels of Yuen Wheel too balanced.  The suggestion is to have a belt mechanism in between.
 
Please keep such good suggestions coming.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 19, 2014, 04:11:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVYiT4zK9Kc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVYiT4zK9Kc)
 
talking about motionless OU devices, see what I found!
 
A research group should focus on one device to get the depth. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 19, 2014, 05:05:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVYiT4zK9Kc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVYiT4zK9Kc)
talking about motionless OU devices, see what I found!
A research group should focus on one device to get the depth.

Hi Lawrence. Thane Heins' 'bi-toroid transformer' has been around for several years now.
I experimented with this approach a couple of years ago. Based on my own test results, it does not
appear to work as claimed. I believe it is based on an incorrect understanding of how transformers work,
overlooking certain things, and also due to Mr. Heins incorrectly trying to draw conclusions under inadequate
measurement conditions. From what I recall, Thane Heins bi-toroid transformer was independently
tested and it was determined that under those measurement conditions proper measurements could not be made.

You may find the videos of the following claimed electronic overunity devices more useful, as
at least some of the devices in these videos, if not all, seem to very possibly be actual overunity devices.

Akula's device videos (Kazakhstan):
Some Germans are helping Akula to market his devices, and Chinese investors have already looked
at some of Akula's devices. See the following videos.
Demonstration of devices to Chinese investors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipdXqW15Axo
More Akula videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2aHNMDJzRW7YDd145_Pa2w/videos

Ruslan's device videos (many devices mostly based closely on Akula's devices) (Latvia):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_zn0cdzv_qfsxQUm4e7R9w

All the best...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: JouleSeeker on November 19, 2014, 06:22:00 PM
  Thank you, Void.

  I would also point to some LENR devices as showing promise, Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, generally reactions with protons and heavier elements such as nickel and lithium. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 19, 2014, 07:44:16 PM
  Thank you, Void.

  I would also point to some LENR devices as showing promise, Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, generally reactions with protons and heavier elements such as nickel and lithium.

Hi JouleSeeker. Thanks for the info on LENR. That sounds interesting...
All the best...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 20, 2014, 12:25:05 AM
Hi Lawrence. Thane Heins' 'bi-toroid transformer' has been around for several years now.
I experimented with this approach a couple of years ago. Based on my own test results, it does not
appear to work as claimed. I believe it is based on an incorrect understanding of how transformers work,
overlooking certain things, and also due to Mr. Heins incorrectly trying to draw conclusions under inadequate
measurement conditions. From what I recall, Thane Heins bi-toroid transformer was independently
tested and it was determined that under those measurement conditions proper measurements could not be made.

You may find the videos of the following claimed electronic overunity devices more useful, as
at least some of the devices in these videos, if not all, seem to very possibly be actual overunity devices.

Akula's device videos (Kazakhstan):
Some Germans are helping Akula to market his devices, and Chinese investors have already looked
at some of Akula's devices. See the following videos.
Demonstration of devices to Chinese investors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipdXqW15Axo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipdXqW15Axo)
More Akula videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2aHNMDJzRW7YDd145_Pa2w/videos (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2aHNMDJzRW7YDd145_Pa2w/videos)

Ruslan's device videos (many devices mostly based closely on Akula's devices) (Latvia):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_zn0cdzv_qfsxQUm4e7R9w (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_zn0cdzv_qfsxQUm4e7R9w)

All the best...

Void,
 
Thank you for the good information.
 
I do not mind that some information is many years old.  The Milkovic 2SO must have been around for over 20 years.  Why do thousands of scientists look at it and cannot see that it is already an OU or a lead out energy device.
 
I was told by a mechanical engineer that the Milkovic 2SO was one of their projects when he was an undergraduate over 10 years ago.  They, including their lecturer. did not make the link with the unbalanced wheel.
 
How many who looked at the video made that connection?  How many build the equivalent of the Chan Wheel?  How many confirmed that a balanced wheel cannot lift the Weight whereas the unbalanced wheel can easily lift the Weight?   How many noticed that the amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum does not decrease?  How many conclude that the energy must come in from outside?  How many realized that gravitational energy must have been brought in?
 
If gravitational energy can be brought in by the unbalanced wheel Milkovic style, can magnetic or electromagnetic energy be brought in similarly?
 
This vital link points to the possibility that many pulse motors are actually OU.  The efforts of thousands of OU researchers will not be in vain...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on November 20, 2014, 12:52:00 AM
http://www.overunity.com/15115/dual-resonant-eccentric-flywheel/msg423986/#new

I need help of a physicist.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on November 20, 2014, 12:54:47 AM
@Void: The device shown in the "Chinese investors" video simply has one of the electrolytic capacitor cans gutted and the insides replaced with button cell batteries like LR74. The circuit will keep the LEDs lit brilliantly for many hours, perhaps even days, running on these cleverly hidden batteries.
Akula/Stivep/Ruslan are suffering from violation of Conservation of Miracles. They are not allowed so many! Different circuits, all "working", but only for them and for no one else. Cheap devices with just a few components, schematics posted, but for some strange reason they will _never_ send anyone we can trust, like you or me, one of their "working" models. Think about it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on November 20, 2014, 01:00:25 AM

Void,
 
Thank you for the good information.
 
I do not mind that some information is many years old.  The Milkovic 2SO must have been around for over 20 years.  Why do thousands of scientists look at it and cannot see that it is already an OU or a lead out energy device.
Simply because IT IS NOT any such thing.
Quote

 
I was told by a mechanical engineer that the Milkovic 2SO was one of their projects when he was an undergraduate over 10 years ago.  They, including their lecturer. did not make the link with the unbalanced wheel.
 
How many who looked at the video made that connection?  How many build the equivalent of the Chan Wheel?  How many confirmed that a balanced wheel cannot lift the Weight whereas the unbalanced wheel can easily lift the Weight?   How many noticed that the amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum does not decrease?  How many conclude that the energy must come in from outside?  How many realized that gravitational energy must have been brought in?
How many actually made careful measurements? How many used proper test equipment? How many performed True Experiments? Every one who DID do these things knows that the oscillations do in fact decrease and that there is no more work available for output than was put into the system in the first place.
Quote

If gravitational energy can be brought in by the unbalanced wheel Milkovic style, can magnetic or electromagnetic energy be brought in similarly?
 
This vital link points to the possibility that many pulse motors are actually OU.  The efforts of thousands of OU researchers will not be in vain...
If wishes were horses, Lawrence, beggars would ride. No pulse motors are actually OU, and if you would like to dispute that statement, you can just present one, using proper measurement, that you think IS. But of course your "225 HP pulse motor" is Top Secret, isn't it.

What happened to all those "OU" Joule Thief boards you sent out? What response did you get, when everyone found that they weren't OU at all and that your measurements were bad and your conclusions false?

And ... just WHERE do you get your electricity, Lawrence? Why do you not answer this simple question? I  know why... and so do you.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 20, 2014, 07:06:50 AM
Dear TK and Bill,
 
Please study the posts from:
 
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg417148/#msg417148 (http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg417148/#msg417148)
 
There is no need to repeat.
 
God Bless,
 
Lawrence
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 20, 2014, 02:55:48 PM
Void,
Thank you for the good information.
I do not mind that some information is many years old.  The Milkovic 2SO must have been around for over 20 years.  Why do thousands of scientists look at it and cannot see that it is already an OU or a lead out energy device.
I was told by a mechanical engineer that the Milkovic 2SO was one of their projects when he was an undergraduate over 10 years ago.  They, including their lecturer. did not make the link with the unbalanced wheel.
How many who looked at the video made that connection?  How many build the equivalent of the Chan Wheel?  How many confirmed that a balanced wheel cannot lift the Weight whereas the unbalanced wheel can easily lift the Weight?   How many noticed that the amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum does not decrease?  How many conclude that the energy must come in from outside?  How many realized that gravitational energy must have been brought in?
If gravitational energy can be brought in by the unbalanced wheel Milkovic style, can magnetic or electromagnetic energy be brought in similarly?
This vital link points to the possibility that many pulse motors are actually OU.  The efforts of thousands of OU researchers will not be in vain...

Hi Lawrence. My comment that the bi-toroid transformer was around for some time was of course not meant
to suggest that something being around for some time means it is not valid, but I was just pointing out
that that device has been looked into quite a bit and does not appear to give over unity. I can't comment on
the Milkovic 2SO device or other similar types of mechanical devices because I know next to nothing about
such things. I will say this however. If any given device really is producing over unity, it shouldn't be too
overly difficult for the most part for a qualified experimenter to set up a demonstration that clearly shows
that the device is generating over unity, which can stand up to close inspection. If any given device does
really produce over unity then it should stand up to inspection by qualified technicians, engineers, and scientists, no?
I realize that many people will not even look at such devices because they have already made up their mind
that over unity is impossible, but in the case of those who are qualified and who are willing to test such a device, 
if the device really is clearly producing over unity then it should stand up to such an inspection without too much difficulty. 
Something to consider anyway.

The devices by Akula and Ruslan are set up to be self running, so this completely eliminates potential measurement error.
(For lower power electronic devices, the devices can be placed in a faraday cage to eliminate pickup of external EM fields.)
The only other possibility for those devices not producing over unity is (obviously) some sort of trickery.
One only needs to do some basic tests to confirm that the device self runs, and to also be able to fully disassemble such a device
to determine if there is any trickery involved. Due to wide scale skepticism about over unity, it would seem to be quite advisable
then to set up a potential over unity device to be self running if at all possible, as this eliminates potential considerations to do
with measurement error. That would seem to be the way to go in regards to presenting over unity devices to the scientific community.
There really often is so many factors that could potentially affect measurements that configuring an over unity device to be self running,
if at all possible, before making any public claims about over unity would seem to be advisable.  :)
All the best...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 20, 2014, 03:09:24 PM
@Void: The device shown in the "Chinese investors" video simply has one of the electrolytic capacitor cans gutted and the insides replaced with button cell batteries like LR74. The circuit will keep the LEDs lit brilliantly for many hours, perhaps even days, running on these cleverly hidden batteries.
Akula/Stivep/Ruslan are suffering from violation of Conservation of Miracles. They are not allowed so many! Different circuits, all "working", but only for them and for no one else. Cheap devices with just a few components, schematics posted, but for some strange reason they will _never_ send anyone we can trust, like you or me, one of their "working" models. Think about it.

Hi TK. I understand your skepticism and your point that it seems quite suspicious that Akula was able to
come up with various different self running devices. It seems at least possible however that the working principle
behind these devices is the same or similar, so that even though the devices are implemented in different ways,
they may be working on a similar underlying principle. I think the difference between your perspective and my perspective
is that even though I fully realize that there is a very high chance that any claim of over unity is false,
I do not make any assumptions about such being necessarily so. Yes, there is mountains of nonsense out
there in regards to over unity claims, but despite that I still allow for the possibility that over unity may
be achievable. I wouldn't assume anything is really over unity without lots of solid evidence, but by the same token,
I wouldn't assume any device is definitely not over unity without good reason as well. BTW, I don't assume Akula's 
and Ruslan's devices are over unity, as they could potentially be fakes of course, but I do allow
for the possibility that they could be genuine until I see sufficient evidence to the contrary. ;)

Regarding your point about Akula not sending his device out for inspection, if you want to market such a device,
no one is likely going to give away the entire details of how such a device works unless maybe they have some
patents first, but even then, many inventors or companies would not give out full details about their inventions
publicly as they usually want to market their inventions and stay competitive. Giving away proprietary secrets usually
isn't done by people who are interested in marketing an invention. Why Akula released schematics of some of his
devices I don't know, but for all I know the schematics may have had things in them that were meant to throw people
off the right path. ;) It is hard to say what motivations he may have had. He may possibly have wanted to give out some helpful
tips to other experimenters for all I know. :)
All the best...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 21, 2014, 12:56:07 AM
 
Hi Lawrence. My comment that the bi-toroid transformer was around for some time was of course not meant to suggest that something being around for some time means it is not valid, but I was just pointing out that that device has been looked into quite a bit and does not appear to give over unity. I can't comment on
the Milkovic 2SO device or other similar types of mechanical devices because I know next to nothing about such things. I will say this however. If any given device really is producing over unity, it shouldn't be too overly difficult for the most part for a qualified experimenter to set up a demonstration that clearly shows that the device is generating over unity, which can stand up to close inspection.

Dear Void,
 
You are absolutely correct that any claimed OU device should be able to stand up to close inspection by qualified scientists.
 
The demonstration set up by Head in reply 2179 of this thread:
 
 In analyzing the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum as shown on youtube:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8)
 
 We noted that after 2.30 minutes, a single push by the hand will lift the weight twice. On close examination, the lifting of the Weight appeared to be when the pendulum bob is swinging with the maximum velocity at the vertical position.

In Physics, work is done (energy is spent) only when there is displacement.  In this case, the output is the lifting of the weight.
 
*** I am claiming that the Milkovic 2SO is already an OU or lead out energy device.

    A competent scientist will examine the Input (finger pushing the pendulum) and compare it with the Output (Weight lifted twice) to check for OU.
 
We did better.  We replaced the pendulum with an unbalanced wheel.  We discovered some additional facts:
 
1.     A balanced wheel will not lift the Weight.  An Unbalanced wheel will.  A Balanced wheel has no elements of oscillation of the pendulum.
 
2.      The number and positioning of the weights on the unbalanced wheel affect the performance.  It can be compared with pushing the swing at the right time or resonance.
 
3.  With the Chan Wheel, we can measure the Input and the Output energy carefully.  I am sure that there will be discussions or violent arguments on the measurement methods.  But that should give rise to good scientific knowledge.
 
4.  If we can lead out gravitational energy in the Chan Wheel or the Milkovic 2SO, we must be able to lead out magnetic or electromagnetic energy.  That can be demonstrated easily with the horizontal unbalanced wheel with appropriate magnetic fields.
 

I like the FixtheWorldProject.org approach – disclose the experimental steps before the final result. 
 
Many looked at the video but did not see that we have an actual OU device for over 20 years.  (I am one of them.  I looked at the video multiple times 10 years ago but did not see until recently.)  It is simple and easily reproducible.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 21, 2014, 02:11:38 AM
The demonstration set up by Head in reply 2179 of this thread:
 In analyzing the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum as shown on youtube:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8)
 We noted that after 2.30 minutes, a single push by the hand will lift the weight twice. On close examination, the lifting of the Weight appeared to be when the pendulum bob is swinging with the maximum velocity at the vertical position.
In Physics, work is done (energy is spent) only when there is displacement.  In this case, the output is the lifting of the weight.
 

Hi Lawrence. Ok that is interesting. Like I said I know next to nothing about analyzing such mechanical systems,
but just a general observation is it seems to me the person who made that video may be overlooking the concept
of mechanical advantage. It sure looks to me like the rocker beam in conjunction with the long swinging pendulum is acting like a lever.
As we know, we can use the mechanical advantage of a lever to use a small force to lift a heavy object. The trade off is
we must move the lever through a large distance (the long swinging pendulum in conjunction with the lever action of the rocker beam) to
move the weight a short distance (inches). The long pendulum arm extends the length of the rocker beam (lever) on the force input side.
Again, I don't really know, but it does look like the action of a lever at play in that video. I don't know much about the unbalanced
wheels you describe. Do you have a link to video demonstration of this type of wheel?
All the best...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 21, 2014, 07:43:27 AM
Void,
 
Description of the Chan Wheel started at reply 2246 and that of the Yuen Wheel at reply 2296 of this thread
 
I shall now start the  "expected different views" on Input and Output measurements of the Chan Wheel.
 
The Input can be the difference in Potential Energy when the weight of the unbalanced wheel is at the top and the position when the wheel started not to lift the Weight.  These two height positions are relatively easy to measure and repeatable.  The Potential Energy is just
mgh where m is the unbalanced weight, h is the height difference and g is the gravitational constant.
 
The Output is detrmined by the total height of Weight W1 lifted.  This total height can be accurately determined by examining the video frame by frame with a graph paper in the background.  The Potential Energy or Work Done is MgH where M is the weight of W1, H is the total height lifted and g is the gravitational constant.
 
We can change the configuration to get slightly different COP. 
 
I shall wait for the arguments or objections on this simple method.
 
God Bless,
 
Lawrence

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 21, 2014, 12:25:21 PM
First comment:
 
Input:  Use the unbalanced wheel as pendulum.  Find angle when Weight W1 can be lifted.  Video the movement and the drop in height of the unbalanced wheel weight.
 
Output:  The two heights lifted.
 
We may use both methods.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 21, 2014, 03:19:46 PM
Hi Lawrence. I'll take that as a no then. :)
All the best...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Drak on November 21, 2014, 04:30:46 PM
These might help explain the TSO some:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qot30pWwqAo&list=UUaaivbtu6jGTk4i2J84jiQw
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZGQpg7WfHo&list=UUaaivbtu6jGTk4i2J84jiQw

The over balanced wheel seems to be the same thing, just on a smaller scale and full 360 spin so the rotation can be faster. I wonder if the TSO actually works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq6mXxEQJpc&list=UUW7H7Zi1J9Zy8ynmSP7x35g
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjep9BFI_MU&list=UUW7H7Zi1J9Zy8ynmSP7x35g

Would love to see real results.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on November 21, 2014, 07:33:30 PM
Thanks Drak.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 22, 2014, 06:48:15 AM
These might help explain the TSO some:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qot30pWwqAo&list=UUaaivbtu6jGTk4i2J84jiQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qot30pWwqAo&list=UUaaivbtu6jGTk4i2J84jiQw)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZGQpg7WfHo&list=UUaaivbtu6jGTk4i2J84jiQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZGQpg7WfHo&list=UUaaivbtu6jGTk4i2J84jiQw)

The over balanced wheel seems to be the same thing, just on a smaller scale and full 360 spin so the rotation can be faster. I wonder if the TSO actually works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq6mXxEQJpc&list=UUW7H7Zi1J9Zy8ynmSP7x35g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq6mXxEQJpc&list=UUW7H7Zi1J9Zy8ynmSP7x35g)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjep9BFI_MU&list=UUW7H7Zi1J9Zy8ynmSP7x35g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjep9BFI_MU&list=UUW7H7Zi1J9Zy8ynmSP7x35g)

Would love to see real results.

Drak,
 
Thank you for the information.  They did not use Lead out energy theory to explain the source of extra energy.
 
Shall use both theory and experiments to justify the claim - Milkovic 2SO is already an OU or LEAD OUT ENERGY device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Madeo on November 22, 2014, 01:22:11 PM

Milkovic 2SO is already an OU or LEAD OUT ENERGY device.


That is quite a claim.  Do you have proof that supports this ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 22, 2014, 01:42:55 PM

That is quite a claim.  Do you have proof that supports this ?

Please start from page 146 reply 2179.  There is no need to repeat.  Watch the Head video on Milkovic 2SO carefully.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Madeo on November 22, 2014, 02:04:22 PM
i have watched it and i do not see any evidence of this. You swing the pendulum to its extreme positions while the hammer or beam only lifts a few inches periodically. I dont even see the numbers between input vs output joules.....


pretty pictures, elaborate formulas, and claims  is NOT proof of OU. Where are the experiments and the proper measurements?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 22, 2014, 09:18:27 PM
i have watched it and i do not see any evidence of this. You swing the pendulum to its extreme positions while the hammer or beam only lifts a few inches periodically. I dont even see the numbers between input vs output joules.....


pretty pictures, elaborate formulas, and claims  is NOT proof of OU. Where are the experiments and the proper measurements?

Dear Madeo,
 
Like many thousands (including myself for 10 years), you looked but did not see.  The most important things to observe are:
 
1. With the finger push around the 2.30 minute mark, each finger push lifted the 74 pound weight twice.  The movement of the fingers was around an inch.  The 74 pound weight was lifted with a total height of around or over an inch.  If the Input were the finger push and the Output were the potential energy of the lifted weight, Output was easily seen to be greater than Input. 
 
2.  The amplitude of the pendulum did not decrease.  If energy were transferred from the pendulum system to lift the Weight, the amplitude MUST decrease.  If the amplitude does not decrease, energy must come from elsewhere.  The explanation from the LEE-TSEUNG lead out energy theory is that gravitational energy is brought in.
 
3.  The fact that gravitational energy can be brought in by the Milkovic 2SO has extremely important implications.  If gravitational energy can be brought in continuously (by any method), magnetic or electromagnetic energy must be able to be brought in similarly.....
 
4.  Some experimenters have done measurements but did not use the lead out energy theory to explain the findings.  They used more mathematics to confuse themselves and others.
 
5.  We now have the Chan Wheel which replaces the pendulum with an unbalanced wheel.  Much more scientific measurements can and will be taken.  OU can be confirmed with absolute certainly.
 
I expect the oil interests and the Military of USA and China will try to discredit the lead out energy theory and any OU device as much as possible.  They tried that with the 225 HP Pulse Motor in 2006.  They will try again this time.  However, we have many working OU devices in Taiwan and Hong Kong now.  The WITTS and QEG are also OU devices.  Over 60 QEGs have shown resonance.  It is a matter of time that they will show OU.  WITTS has already shown OU and self loop.
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on November 22, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
i have watched it and i do not see any evidence of this. You swing the pendulum to its extreme positions while the hammer or beam only lifts a few inches periodically. I dont even see the numbers between input vs output joules.....


pretty pictures, elaborate formulas, and claims  is NOT proof of OU. Where are the experiments and the proper measurements?

There aren't any.
Ltseung888  doesn't even have the guts to admit that with all this "lead-out" nonsense, he is still "leading out" his own electricity from the wall sockets, just like all the other "inventors" he touts. Not a single one of them has ever made a Joule of extra energy over what it takes to run their devices.

Don't forget that this is the same person who made bad measurements using a cheap, non-calibratable oscilloscope to claim "overunity" from simple Joule Thief circuits, claimed to send out many circuit boards to various people and organizations, and then never followed up after his claims were soundly proven wrong. How much did all that nonsense cost, I wonder?

He also claims that money is no problem and that he can easily donate 100000 dollars to WITTS to purchase a self-running QEG from Sir Timothy Thrapp... but he has not done this and will never do it... because he cannot, and he knows it.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on November 22, 2014, 09:26:02 PM

Dear Madeo,
 
Like many thousands (including myself for 10 years), you looked but did not see.  The most important things to observe are:
 
1. With the finger push around the 2.30 minute mark, each finger push lifted the 74 pound weight twice.  The movement of the fingers was around an inch.  The 74 pound weight was lifted with a total height of around or over an inch.  If the Input were the finger push and the Output were the potential energy of the lifted weight, Output was easily seen to be greater than Input. 
 
2.  The amplitude of the pendulum did not decrease.  If energy were transferred from the pendulum system to lift the Weight, the amplitude MUST decrease.  If the amplitude does not decrease, energy must come from elsewhere.  The explanation from the LEE-TSEUNG lead out energy theory is that gravitational energy is brought in.
 
3.  The fact that gravitational energy can be brought in by the Milkovic 2SO has extremely important implications.  If gravitational energy can be brought in continuously (by any method), magnetic or electromagnetic energy must be able to be brought in similarly.....
 
4.  Some experimenters have done measurements but did not use the lead out energy theory to explain the findings.  They used more mathematics to confuse themselves and others.
 
5.  We now have the Chan Wheel which replaces the pendulum with an unbalanced wheel.  Much more scientific measurements can and will be taken.  OU can be confirmed with absolute certainly.
 
I expect the oil interests and the Military of USA and China will try to discredit the lead out energy theory and any OU device as much as possible.  They tried that with the 225 HP Pulse Motor in 2006.  They will try again this time.  However, we have many working OU devices in Taiwan and Hong Kong now.  The WITTS and QEG are also OU devices.  Over 60 QEGs have shown resonance.  It is a matter of time that they will show OU.  WITTS has already shown OU and self loop.

You are either seriously deluded, or a plain and simple lying fraudster, or perhaps both.

FOR THE SIXTH TIME AT LEAST.... WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR ELECTRICITY?  Admit it, you get it from the wall socket just like the "inventors" of the "many working OU devices" that you claim, but never show evidence for.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: minnie on November 22, 2014, 10:08:18 PM



 Itseung,
             why don't you win the OU.Com prize with one of your many working OU. devices?
 Get in there first before John Bedini or Thane C Heins beats you to it!
 That'll show 'em!
                     John.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on November 22, 2014, 10:32:10 PM


 Itseung,
             why don't you win the OU.Com prize with one of your many working OU. devices?
 Get in there first before John Bedini or Thane C Heins beats you to it!
 That'll show 'em!
                     John.

He won't do it because he CANNOT. You know this, and so do I... and so does HE.
 
When he told his fairy tale about "money is no problem" and claimed that he could "easily donate 100000 dollars to WITTS" to buy a "self running QEG" that really got my goat. It is an outrageous INSULT to every honest researcher who is genuinely trying to find out some new knowledge for Lawrence Tseung to make such incredibly outrageous claims, without any intention or even any effort to follow through with them. Of course we know that Sir Timothy Thrapp is another fraudster who cannot supply a "self running" QEG anyway, but for Lawrence Tseung to claim what he has claimed is utterly outrageous. He should be ashamed of himself, especially after the "overunity" Joule Thief fiasco.

It is evident in his most recent posts that he still does not grasp the difference between Power and Energy, nor between Peak Power and Average Power. Nor does he have the slightest clue as to how to go about proper testing of any of these claimed "overunity" devices which clearly are no such thing.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ballbag on November 23, 2014, 12:10:07 AM
Haha.  Well said TK.  158 pages of bold claims.  Time to unleash the wolves ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 23, 2014, 01:03:49 AM
            Letter of encouragement to the QEG research teams.
 
Dear QEG Researchers,
 
I saw the Canadian Video Update last night.  I am glad that your team members went to China and are working on mini QEG and motionless QEG.  The goal is to produce a device that may cost less than USD100.  The Steven Mark TPU does cost less than that and that TPU device uses resonance.
 
I know that many of you watched the WITTS 40KW video.  That device not only achieved resonance.  It is overunity and self running.  Your QEG devices have not achieved that yet.  You may be wondering where the energy comes from and how to harness it.

The answer is here:
 
  It is the Electron Cloud Energy.  Chemical Energy comes from the difference in Electron Cloud Energy of the different Compounds from the same elements.  Different arrangement produces different Electron Clouds.  There is no violation of any Laws of Physics or Chemistry if such Electron Cloud Energy is used.
 
  There is the concept of Leading Out Energy from the environment.  Some people used the term Zero Point Energy or Quantum Energy from the Vacuum.  That concept is not generally accepted by classical physicists.
 
  I have presented the concept of Lead Out Energy using standard classical physics and mathematics for over 10 years.  Like thousands of scientists, I looked at the Milkovic 2 stage Pendulum multiple times and did not see that it is already an overunity device leading out gravitational energy. 
 
  With Divine Guidance recently, I saw that the amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum did not decrease when the Weight was lifted.  If energy were transferred from the swinging pendulum, the amplitude of oscillation must decrease.  The only explanation was that energy must come from elsewhere.
 
  That elsewhere is the gravitational energy.  Every time the pendulum was pushed by the finger, the 74 pound weight was lifted twice.  We can thus lead out or bring in gravitational energy continuously via such a simple device at resonance.
 
  If we can bring in gravitational energy, we can easily bring in magnetic or electromagnetic energy in a similar fashion.  A horizontal magnetic pendulum can easily illustrate that.
 
  What we have done to improve the Milkovic 2SO was to change the pendulum into an unbalanced wheel.  That is the Chan Wheel.  It was constructed from an old bicycle wheel.  (China should have billions of such old wheels).  That Chan Wheel demonstrated not only the Milkovic effect but it also demonstrated that a balanced wheel cannot lift the Weight whereas an unbalanced wheel easily lifted the Weight.
 
  We also constructed the Yuen Wheel with multiple bicycle wheels.  The Yuen Wheel demonstrated that the number and the position of small weights on the rim of the bicycle wheels affected performance.  That told us how to achieve resonance.  Too many weights placed at random is like pushing the swing at random.  Many Pulse Motor Researchers do not know this secret.
 
  The Peru Energy Multiplier does use an unbalanced wheel.  It does bring in gravitational energy.  The researcher may not realize that he can also bring in electromagnetic energy in the same way.
 
  The Chas Campbell device uses one motor to drive another more powerful generator with gears and flywheels.  We changed the flywheel to unbalanced wheel.  The device is now being examined by investors.  Taiwan already announced a similar device.
 
  All the above is posted at the overunity thread. http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/2175/ (http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/2175/)   page 146 reoky 2179.
 
    I expect the trolls or paid agents will try to discredit the lead out energy theory and the experimental results.  Just ignore them.  You are on the right path.  The QEG is leading out or bringing in the Electron Cloud Energy at resonance.  That is a fact.  It is a matter of bringing in a large enough quantity to perform overunity and self loop.  Thrapp has done it.  You can do it too.
 
Continue the research.  Money will not be a problem in Hong Kong and China.  I am in touch with some Government Officials and Politicians who are likely to pledge their support when more encouraging results come in.  They are already excited with my preliminary presentations.  Hong Kong and China have many Billions of Dollars ready to pour into promising energy research.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on November 23, 2014, 01:25:21 AM
The sixto ramos invention does not work in virtual world, and various builds indicate this.

Never have I seen, current measurement and more work from sixto ramos.

Dead end, all his backers dropped him.

Bring forward some evidence, as they say, as my friend TK has said before.

Theres a funny tendency for researchers these days to lie themslves out of trouble, financial trouble.

Its evident, that sixto ramos, has gone totally cold, and everyone who tried, failed.

Why would you continue backing this.

You are a panzy Lawrence Tseung, I have never needed your useless theories, when is the last time you helped me ?

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 23, 2014, 10:34:06 AM
The sixto ramos invention does not work in virtual world, and various builds indicate this.

Never have I seen, current measurement and more work from sixto ramos.

Dead end, all his backers dropped him.

Bring forward some evidence, as they say, as my friend TK has said before.

Theres a funny tendency for researchers these days to lie themslves out of trouble, financial trouble.

Its evident, that sixto ramos, has gone totally cold, and everyone who tried, failed.

Why would you continue backing this.

You are a panzy Lawrence Tseung, I have never needed your useless theories, when is the last time you helped me ?

Dear ARMCORTEX,
 
It does not matter whether the sixto ramos invention works.  The fact is that he worked on the unbalanced wheel.  He experimented with different number of weights and their positioning on the wheel.
 
The Yuen Wheel is an unbalanced wheel.  I applied it to the Pulse Motor.  With a single weight, the number of Pulse is one per revolution.  If I have one pair of Coil and magnet on the Pulse wheel, I get one Pulse per revolution.  If I have two pairs of Coil and magnet on the Pulse Wheel, I get two pulses per revolution.
 
Instead of playing with core material resonance, I used the unbalanced wheel as the pulse control mechanism.  I can lead out gravitational energy.  I can also lead out electromagnetic energy from Pulse Wheels.  The performance of the Tong and Ting Wheels greatly improved.  They no longer worry about pulsing at the wrong time.
 
It does not matter whether the inventions of others are perfect or “not working”.  If they help to point in the right direction, they are useful.  The Milkovic 2SO by itself may not self loop or generate much energy.  However, it gives rise to the Chan Wheel and the leading out of electromagnetic energy.  The Pulse Wheels now can generate much more energy.  The Taiwan Pulse Wheel got funding. 
 
Dr. Ting is confident that the Ting wheel will generate 5KW.  This is much lower than the 225 HP Pulse Motor but it is not “top secret”.  It may see day light.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 25, 2014, 11:38:17 PM
Re: letter of encouragement Monday, November 24, 2014 10:21 AM
From:"QEG Canada" qegcanada@gmail.com (qegcanada@gmail.com)
To:"Lawrence Tseung" <lawrencetseung@yahoo.com>
 
thank you so very much.  I am forwarding your message to the QEG research team.

*** Now that the QEG teams are aware of the LEE-TSEUNG lead out energy theory, great things will happen.

If they get frustrated, they can easily build a Chan Wheel as encouragement.  The Milkovic 2SO or the Chan Wheel is a guaranteed OU device.  That will give them inspiration.  Watch when and how gravitational energy is lead out or brought in.
 
They can also order the surfer perpetual motion toy from officeplayground.com.  The cost is only USD2.0!

The trolls or debunkers can buy the toy too…

The Philosophy of sharing the information even if it is incomplete is correct.  USA, Chinese and other Governments are printing money.  With the right contact and demonstration, some of such “money from thin air” will go into OU research.

Lawrence
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on November 26, 2014, 06:40:26 AM
Lawrence you are a FALSE CLAIMANT. Your "guarantees" are worthless because you cannot support your claims with credible demonstrations, and you are simply lying when you say that you can easily donate 100000 dollars to WITTS to buy a self-running QEG from "sir" Timothy Thrapp. Go ahead, prove me wrong. You cannot.

There will never be a self running QEG from any of the many dupes like Kevin Blundell of QEG Canada who fell for Naima HypeGirl's lies, I guarantee that, nor will YOU ever actually obtain one from "sir" Timothy Thrapp, I guarantee that as well. Go ahead... PROVE ME WRONG. You cannot.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Madeo on November 26, 2014, 07:14:35 AM
the nit WITTS have been known to be scam artists since i've heard of them 7 years ago.  The scam was simple. They promise you the plans if you visit their website and give "donations." My first thought was that it can't be a donation if it's mandatory payment just to view the schematics or plans. I knew then that i smelled scam.


It wasn't long till people started complaining that they didn't see squat after they "donated" money. They dont respond to emails either (surprise surprise !)  so when i heard that the QEG system was derived from these dipsh.ts , i just shook my head. None of the systems worked from what I heard. Well,  duh......


I dont want to be mean and say that people who where dumb enough to fall for this deserved it,  but then again it is a lesson that they need to learn.




Madeo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 27, 2014, 12:37:04 AM
The Milkovic 2SO is a credible OU device (see reply 2179).  Many looked but could not see.
 
I have the improved Chan Wheel for experiments.  None of the trolls or debunkers have it.  Any scientist is welcome to touch, feel and improve the Chan Wheel.  They are welcome to replicate - cost less than USD100.
 
I have contacts with Governments and Investors who can pour money into promising new energy projects.  They were excited with my preliminary presentations.  They can touch, feel and play with the Chan and Yuen Wheels without any restrictions,  They have to sign non-disclosure statements if they want to see the Tong or Ting Wheels.
 
I have helped to improve the performnce of the Pulse Wheels with the addition of the unbalanced wheel.  The torque greatly increased.  That was the complaint with the Bedini Wheel.  The new problem is the "shaking".
 
The 225 HP Pulse Motor did not get investment from USA sources.  They were funded by Hong Kong and were then classified as "Top Secret" by both USA and China.  The WITTS or QEG devices may meet similar fate.  The vested interests are likely to try smear tactics like the rude posts and the subtle "help" tactics.  The counter tactics of open source may or may not be effective.  But the Lead Out Energy theory is guaranteed to be correct both theoretically and experimentally.  It will be the inspriation and guiding light for all serious free energy researchers.
 
Amen.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 28, 2014, 12:50:15 AM
Letter to Lead Out Energy Believers.
 
The oil prices keep going down.  Can one of the factors be - knowledgeable investors are aware of "free energy"???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 28, 2014, 11:10:22 AM
The Cheung Wheel in honor of the Late Cheung King Fung, Founder of the Hong Kong Invention Club.
 
Some members of the Hong Kong Invention Club suggested the following:
 
1. Use resonance on the Pulse Wheel.  This was observed multiple times with sudden increase in brightness.
 
2. This is a proposed project.  More thoughts will be needed before implementation.
 
This may reduce the shaking problem with a physically unbalanced wheel...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 28, 2014, 10:03:49 PM
Comments on the Cheung Wheel.
 
1.  It is good that you honor the founder of the Hong Kong Invention Club.  Can you wait until the Wheel works before using his name?
 
2.  You are using a motor to rotate a Pulse Wheel to get resonance.  QEG does the same.  The configuration of a Pulse Wheel can be changed easily.  This greatly facilitates the experiments.  Have you ever achieved resonance with Pulse Wheels?
 
3.  In the experiments with the Tong Wheel, there was an occurance of sudden high voltage and current.  A portion of the Tong Wheel was burnt and turned black.  The fuse of the meter was blown.  This might have been a touch of resonance...  The Geoffrey Joule Thief suddenly turned bright with time (and frequency change?)
 
4.  Lead out energy is brought in at resonance.  We need to reproduce the many resonance situations.  Your help and experience will be much appreciated.  Amen.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 29, 2014, 01:06:43 AM
Divine Revelation:
 
“Tseung, you were revealed the Horizontally Pushed Pendulum 10 years ago.  You were given the task of serving the “Free Energy” wine to the World.  Why did you fail?”
 
“I worked with Lee Cheung Kin.  We wanted money and fame also.  We thought that the Lead Out Energy Theory is so simple and powerful that it will convince all.  We presented at Tsinghua University (MIT of China) and managed to explain the workings of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.  We met obstacles because we did not realize that turned out to be top secret.”
 
”What did you do when you meet obstacles?”
 
“I thought that I could overcome them with the building of the Tong Wheel, the FLEET and the resonance Joule Thief.  All met limited success.  I still dreamed about glory and fame.”
 
“Now, you saw light in the Milkovic 2SO.  What do you want to do?”
 
“I start following the Philosophy of the Fixtheworldproject.org.  They introduced the QEG to the World.  Many teams achieved resonance within weeks or months.  I shall try my best to introduce them to the Lead Out Energy Theory and speed up their development.  I no long want fame or wealth.  I just want to serve thy will – benefit the World.”
 
“Train the Divine Wine Servers.  Let them learn from the Chan, Yuen and Cheung Wheels.  Let them improve these wheels themselves.  Tell the Government Officials, Politicians and the Investors what your plans are.  Do not bend to their selfish demands.  If money, fame and Worldly pleasures cannot tempt you, you will succeed.”
 
“How should I deal with the trolls or the paid agents?”
 
“Just ignore them.  Many laughed at Edison when he kept failing to produce the light bulb.  Keep promoting the Lead Out Energy Theory.”
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on November 30, 2014, 09:50:09 PM
The following pictures show the amplitude change with time for harmonic systems.  They are the key to understanding resonance and energy.
 
The QEG and other researchers can greatly benefit from these pictures.  These pictures are not taught in Universities yet (especially the last one).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 01, 2014, 08:34:52 PM
Comments:
 
"The Lead Out Energy Theory is not difficult to understand.  Are you sure that you are promoting it the right way?"
 
"What is the right way?"
 
"I do not know.  You tried the academic path by presenting at Tsinghua University.  You posted on the Internet.  You are in touch with Government Officials, Politicians, Investors and Inventors.  You helped to fund the Tong Wheel, the FLEET, the resonating Joule Thief and the Chan, Yuen, Cheung Wheels.  What else will you do?"
 
"There is a Chinese Saying - men can only try; succes will depend on Heaven."
 
"Actually, you have succeeded more than most.  You have working OU devices based on the Milkovic 2SO - the unbalanced Chan Wheel and Yuen Wheel.  You have both theory and working OU devices.  Let others shine."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 02, 2014, 12:24:35 PM
Meeting with an Investor Group:
 
Investor 1: "I do not think that it is wise to invest in the impossible perpetual motion machine."
 
Investor 2: "Tseung is promoting Lead Out Energy Devices.  I think we should at least give him a chance.  I have seen the Milkovic 2SO video and spun the Chan and Yuen Wheels.  I also saw the Input and Output comparison of the Ting Wheel.  I got a COP of 6.8.  That is why I invited you all to this meeting."
 
Investor 3: "I follow the information on the Internet.  The WITTS and the Quantum Energy Generator QEG are getting much attention.  I am prepared to listen to the presentation."
 
Tseung did the standard presentation.
 
Investor 1: "Now I actually saw the Milkovic, the Chan and Yuen videos.  I like the explanation.  Are you sure that we can actually see and touch these Wheels?  Can we get a thrid party expert to validate the Ting Wheel?  I am prepared to support the investing of USD60,000 to develop a prototype that can generate 5KW as claimed."
 
Investor 4: "I do not mind visiting WITTS.  It may be a good move to invest or work with them to provide the 5KW home unit.  They claimed to have developed a 40KW unit with overunity and self loop.  There will be no development risks."
 
Tseung: "You should get your experts to do a competitive technology analysis in addition to the validation of the Ting Wheel."
 
Investor 2: "I do not mind to becoming the lead investor and keep you all informed of the progress.  How many of you would like to follow up?"
 
All nodded their heads.  Let us wait for the report from the third party experts.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on December 02, 2014, 06:35:20 PM

 
Investor 2:   I have seen the Milkovic 2SO video and spinned the Chan and Yuen Wheels.

Investor 2 should  be advised that the past participle of  "spin" is "spun".

Am  I right that  the Ting wheel is  as described in #2258 on page 151 ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 03, 2014, 12:26:37 AM
Investor 2 should  be advised that the past participle of  "spin" is "spun".

Am  I right that  the Ting wheel is  as described in #2258 on page 151 ?

@Paul-R,
 
Thanks for the English correction.  The Ting wheel as described in #2258 is being modified.
 
The version seen by Investor 2 had a normal flywheel and could only generate 340 watts with 50 watts input.  When the normal flywheel was replaced by an unbalanced wheel, the torque and the output increased so much that the axle was twisted.  Dr. Ting did not like the shaking.  He took steps to reduce the shaking.
 
Different approaches are being tried.  The one I like is to take the knowledge gained from the Yuen Wheel.  The flywheel was replaced by another Pulse Wheel (the Taiwan aproach).  The Pulse wheels themselves were "unbalanced".  The two unbalanced pulse wheels appeared to produce less shaking with more than double the torque. Such experiments are being done to increase the performance.  The 225 HP Pulose Motor had the equivalent of 9 wheels.
 
Another approach was to get resonance similar to the QEG or the proposed Cheung Wheel.  The Investors are discussing whether to put in USD60,000 to help Dr. Ting to produce a 5KW generator.  They are likely to get a third party expert to examine the existing Ting Wheel to see whether the COP = 6.8 results are correct. 
 
I have a gut feel that the Investors will contact WITTS.  A demonstrated overunity and self looped prototype generating much more than 5KW now is obviously more attractive than waiting for some as yet undeveloped prototype.
 
I am no longer involved with the Ting Wheel.  This allows me to disclose any improvement ideas openly on the Internet.  I do not need more money.  What is the point of having the soul in Heaven and money in the Bank on Earth?  Others may be in a different situation...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 03, 2014, 10:21:15 AM
Comments on improving the Bedini SG Motor:
Please watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM-PZiTUJZo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM-PZiTUJZo)
 
Aaron also used a bicycle wheel.  If you use two or more bicycle wheels (the Yuen Wheel technique), can you generate more torque?  Assume that the second wheel does not have battery to drive it. 
 
Is there a theoretical formula to determine the strength and number of magnets on the wheel?
 
*** Answer:
The Ting wheel did produce greater torque with addition of an  unbalanced wheel on the same  axle.  That leads out gravitational energy.  Use of coils and magnets on a spinning wheel can indeed lead out electromagnetic energy.  Thanks for the suggestion.  There will be more experiments to do on the Yuen Wheel.  The Weight will be magnets with other magnets or coils to lead out more magnetic or electromagnetic energy.  I do not have any formula yet.  But my gut feel is that a "resonance" rotational speed may be possible. 
 
Bedini Wheel developers - does the above discussion provide more insight?  Your Bedini SG wheels may be bringing in electromagnetic energy (electron cloud energy?), think along this direction...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: dvy1214 on December 03, 2014, 07:40:20 PM
Energy isn't hiding like scared horse, it requires no leading into the human darkness. It is indeed everywhere. You can thank Einstein and Oppenheimer for screwing everything up for you and keeping the lights off.


- David
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 04, 2014, 08:52:01 PM
The arrangement for all those interested in Lead Out Energy Research in Hong Kong.
 
1.  We shall use the storage space and the classroom of Mr. Peter Chan at Tai Po as the temporary development center.  Developers are welcome to use the facilities to develop the prototypes and discuss various ideas.  The available hours are Monday to Friday (except Tuesday Morning). 9am to 5pm.
 
2.  Once a month, there will be meetings on Sunday afternoon from 2pm until dinner.  Those interested can contribute HK$100 towards dinner.  Any over spending will be covered by the sponsoring members or organizations.  Potential Investors will also be invited.
 
3.  All information covered will be open.  Please do not share information that might be confidential.  Participants are free to post their ideas and the discussions on the Internet.  Making money is NOT the goal.  Enjoying and sharing the knowledge is the key goal. 
 
4.  As of today, we have the Chan and the Yuen Wheels for tickering (validation and improvement).  The Cheung Wheel will be added soon.  Joule thief and the resonance tank circuits are also available.
 
5.  Please email lawrencetseung@yahoo.com if you are interested in participating.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 05, 2014, 11:52:59 PM
Phone call from Leo (not the real name).
 
Leo: "I have been contacted by a Venture Capital Group to check out Lead Out Energy and in particular, to validate the Ting Wheel."
 
Tseung: "When you communicate with me, all conversation will be open.  Dr. Ting may have a different arrangement."
 
Leo: "That is fine.  Just use Leo as my name.  My goal is to do a proper job."
 
Tseung: "Are you being paid to do the validation?  What are your qualifications?"
 
Leo: "I graduated at MIT in Electrical Engineering ten years ago.  I have my own company doing electrical wiring and maintenance for major construction companies.  I have an open mind and will do a thorough validation.  Yes.  My Company is receiving Consultant Fees to do this validation."
 
Tseung: "Have you read the presentation material and the information on the Internet?"
 
Leo: "Yes.  However, the information on the Internet is confusing with conflicting views.  I would like to get the information from the Inventors directly."
 
Tseung: "Let us set up a meeting next week and do things properly.  I shall post the minutes of the meetings on the Internet."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 06, 2014, 12:18:12 PM
The two files in
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg24854#msg24854 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg24854#msg24854)
 
was sent to Leo for his evaluation.
 
They are:
Divine Revelation 2.xls
Milkovic 2 stage pendulum draft 2.xls.
 
He should have read them before the meeting.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 09, 2014, 11:37:02 PM
Resonance in Joule Thief.
 
Another Divine Revelation?
 
It is easy to spot the resonance condition in a pendulum and determine when to apply the push.
 
It is not too bad to do the same for the unbalanced wheel?
 
How does one go about doing it for Pulse Wheels and Motionless systems?  How can one determine the best input at the most appropriate time.  A wrong pulse at the wrong time is like pushing the pendulum at the wrong time.
 
I moved to a new flat.  I checked my reconnected DSO and the FLEET (Forever Leadout Electromagnetic Energy Transformer) boards.  To my delight, the frequency of the output decreased after I turned off the power supply initially.  It then increased again when the frequency was about 2.38KHz.  The LED was very bright at around this frequency.   
 
Bingo.  A good condition for determining the Input votage and duration of the Pulse was found.  A circuit can be built using frequency as the control... 
 
Saving electricity is a given.  Getting OU is a possibility.  (There was a repeatable sudden brightness of the display on the DSO.)
 
An old Joule Thief board diagram with capacitor is displayed here for reference.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 10, 2014, 05:14:13 PM
I broke the Chan Wheel when it fell to the floor.  It was too heavy and bulky for an old man.
 
The bearing was twisted.  I had to go back to the "No bearing" configuration.
 
I finally managed to re-create the "Milkovic effect" with an unbalanced wheel.  The comparison with a balanced wheel was also done.
 
Shall confirm that Chan wheel is OU after all necessary repairs...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 11, 2014, 03:30:46 PM
New article by Veljko Milkovic

ENERGY TURNING-POINT

By observing living beings, it is not hard to notice that almost all movement is oscillatory.
Just as the wind swings branches, many other plants bend under the force of the wind, thanks to their elasticity.
The birds fly by flapping their wings; fish are similar as they oscillate their fins and tail. When discussing the movements of people and land animals, one can also talk about oscillatory movement. A similar situation can be found when observing internal organs.
It is probably not by chance that such rational achievements exist in all living beings...

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energy_Turning-Point.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energy_Turning-Point.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 12, 2014, 11:29:47 AM
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2708.msg43684#new (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2708.msg43684#new)
 
The Chan Wheel will be discussed much more in the above thread.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 13, 2014, 12:46:44 AM
Divine Revelation?
 
The two little angels said to me: “Grandpa, do not be afraid.  The Lord is with you.”
 
Now that Christmas is coming, I am preparing the Christmas Gift to the World – the Lead out or Bring in Energy Theory and Devices.
 
The Gift consists of:
 
  The horizontally pushed pendulum can increase the tension of the pendulum string.  The vertical component of the tension of the string will bring in gravitational energy.  For small angles, two parts of horizontal energy can lead out one part of vertical gravitational energy.[/li]
[/list]  
  The Milkovic two stage oscillator is already an overunity device.  The amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum does not decrease when the Weight is lifted.  Energy must come from somewhere.  This somewhere is the lead out gravitational energy.[/li]
[/list]  
  The Chan Wheel is essentially the Milkovic 2SO with the pendulum replaced by the unbalanced wheel.  It is easy to construct.  It can demonstrate that the unbalanced wheel can bring in gravitational energy.  Once the wheel is balanced, it will NOT bring in gravitational energy.[/li]
[/list]  
  The mechanical engineers have been brainwashed to the concept of balance.  Any unbalanced system is considered “evil”.  That is probably why they never seriously looked at the unbalanced wheel.[/li]
[/list]  
  The Yuen Wheel consists of two or more unbalanced wheels.  Experimenting with the size of the wheel, the magnitude and number of weights on the rim of the wheel is likely to yield the Bessler Wheel which can lead out gravitational energy to rotate for 53 days and do some mechanical work.[/li]
[/list]  
  If gravitational energy can be brought in, magnetic or electromagnetic energy must be able to be brought in similarly.  We can replace the pendulum with a magnet or do the equivalent of a horizontal pendulum with magnetic fields.[/li]
[/list]  
  The magnetic or electromagnetic fields can be much more powerful than the gravitational field.  We can change the polarity, the magnitude and the direction of magnetic or electromagnetic fields easily.[/li]
[/list]  
  We need to focus on resonance – pushing the swing at the right time.  If we do it right, resonance can show itself as greater brightness, sharp rise in voltage or power or even physical destruction (e.g. collapsing of bridges).  [/li]
[/list]  
  The likely explanation of the source of lead out energy is the Electron Motion or Electron Cloud Energy.  Chemical Energy is due to the different Electron Cloud Energy associated with different compounds of the same elements.   There is no violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy in Chemical Reactions.  There is no violation in Lead Out Energy Devices.[/li]
[/list]  
   We should be able to Lead Out Energy in oscillating, vibrating or motionless flux change systems.  Working examples include the Milkovic 2SO, the Chan Wheel, the Pulse Wheels (Newman, Bedini, Wang, Tong , Ting, Laing etc.).[/li]
[/list]  
   The WITTS 40K Electricity Generator is probably one of the best examples.  The QEG is learning from it.  Resonance has been achieved in multiple locations.  It is a matter of time and Grace from the Lord for these QEG devices to achieve overunity and self loop similar to the parent WITTS device.[/li]
[/list]  
   The Chan Wheel will be available for others in Hong Kong to validate, improve and replicate.  It is easy to construct and multiple teams are encouraged to do so.[/li]
[/list]  
  The Energy Crisis of the World is essentially over.  The oil prices will continue to drop.  They will drop even faster if and when China or USA reveals the details of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.[/li]
[/list]  
  Rejoice.  The Lead Out Energy Baby is born.  It will never die from Greed, Ignorance or Trolls.[/li]
[/list]  
  Blessed be the Almighyt.  He is giving FREE, NON-POLLUTING, PLENTIFUL ENERGY to the World.  The little angels will have a bright future.  Amen.  [/li]
[/list]
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 13, 2014, 01:17:40 PM
The Christmas gift looks better here:
 
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2708.msg43693#msg43693 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2708.msg43693#msg43693)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 13, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
Phone call with Mr. Peter Chan
 
Peter: “I just came back from a holiday in Thailand.  What is the latest?”
 
Tseung: “Sorry that I broke your Chan Wheel while you were on holiday.”
 
Peter: “That is fine.  I was thinking of redesigning it.”
 
Tseung: “We can make it simple.  Just demonstrate that balanced wheel will not lift the Weight whereas the unbalanced wheel will.”
 
Peter: “That is simple.”
 
Tseung: “Please redesign using the simplest components.  Make it easy to carry and demonstrate.”
 
Peter: “I shall give it some thought.”
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 13, 2014, 09:15:15 PM
New article by Veljko Milkovic

ENERGY TURNING-POINT

By observing living beings, it is not hard to notice that almost all movement is oscillatory.
Just as the wind swings branches, many other plants bend under the force of the wind, thanks to their elasticity.
The birds fly by flapping their wings; fish are similar as they oscillate their fins and tail. When discussing the movements of people and land animals, one can also talk about oscillatory movement. A similar situation can be found when observing internal organs.
It is probably not by chance that such rational achievements exist in all living beings...

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energy_Turning-Point.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energy_Turning-Point.pdf)

@Merg
 
I am sure that Milkovic and team will understand that the pulsed pendulum can bring in gravitational energy.  The lever system will bring in additional energy.  They will realize that the unbalanced wheel is better than the pendulum.  If they can bring in gravitational energy, they can also bring in magnetic or electromagneti energy.
 
They have helped to bring pullution free energy to the World.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 14, 2014, 01:58:24 AM
Analysis of the Christmas Gift.
The Gift consists of:

1.   The horizontally pushed pendulum can increase the tension of the pendulum string.  The vertical component of the tension of the string will bring in gravitational energy.  For small angles, two parts of horizontal energy can lead out one part of vertical gravitational energy.

This point was first raised by Mr. Lee Cheung Kin.  The mathematical analysis was done by Lawrence Tseung.  The spreadsheet analysis is available from the following:
 
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg24854#msg24854 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg24854#msg24854)
under Divine Revelation 2 - Lead-out gravitation energy using Milkovic 2-stage pendulum and blind Peru Scientist's Force Multiplier.
 
Human Beings have pushed the swing for thousands of years.  Nobody until Lee proposed it about 10 years ago.  (The apples were falling but until one fell of the head of Newton…)
 
The mathematics of a horizontally pushed pendulum is based on the secondary school physics of the parallelogram of forces.  The bold assumption is that the horizontal push increases the tension of the string.  The vertical component of the tension of the string is responsible in lifting the pendulum bob.  Work is done against gravity.  The energy used to do this work is NOT transferred from the horizontally supplied energy.  The energy is the lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.
 
For small angles, two parts of horizontal energy can lead out one part of vertical gravitational energy.
 
The concept and mathematics of the pushed (pulsed) pendulum is correct.  It will withstand any scientific challenge.  Lead out energy has a sound theoretical basis or footing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 14, 2014, 02:08:00 AM
Analysis of the Christmas Gift Continued.
 
2.   The Milkovic two stage oscillator is already an overunity device.  The amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum does not decrease when the Weight is lifted.  Energy must come from somewhere.  This somewhere is the lead out gravitational energy.
 
The Milkovic 2SO is a direct experimental confirmation of the Lead Out Energy Theory.  The detailed explanation is available from the following:
 
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg24854#msg24854 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg24854#msg24854)
 
Milkovic 2 stage pendulum draft 2.xls   
 
The youtube video by Raymond Head should be watched multiple times.  Many looked but could not see (Tseung did not see for 10 years).  The amplitude of oscillation of the pendulum did not decrease when the Weight was lifted.  This meant that no energy was transferred from the swinging pendulum.  Since energy must be conserved, the only explanation is that Gravitational Energy was brought in. 
 
Thus the Milkovic 2SO leads-out or brings-in gravitational energy under both the pushing by hand and the lifting of the Weight.  The Input Energy should be the sum of the push plus the brought in gravitational energy.  It is already an overunity device.
 
Hundreds if not thousands of Milkovic inspired 2SO systems have been built.  Many were done at top universities.  How many dared to claim that the device is Overunity???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on December 14, 2014, 10:30:48 AM
Not many, and the only ones who do, are wrong. There is nothing OU about those systems and you are wrong too, Lawrence. If the system is not powered, the amplitude of the swing will decrease as your external weight is lifted over and over. If the system is powered, the input power may replace the losses on a 1 to 1 basis. You have no coherent measurements to support your contentions. Any pendulum, single double or chaotic, is only a flywheel in a different configuration, converting potential energy of position to kinetic energy of motion.

For example, I tested several of Kohei Minato's motors that he himself brought to our laboratory some years ago. I used his own test equipment plus some of our own. One motor in particular had a very large heavy brass flywheel of 25 kg mass. He believed that his motor would continue to run, unpowered, while also powering a small load (an automotive brake light bulb, iirc.) And it did! Of course the motor had to be operated in powered mode for some few minutes while the flywheel _sped up_ to 2500 RPM or so. At that point the drive motor power could be disconnected, and sure enough the small bulb (perhaps 5 Watts dissipation) would light up brightly. And minutes would go by, before people got bored and went to lunch or something. However, nobody had bothered to do _very precise_ and _long term_ tachometry of the heavy flywheel, until I came along. I invite you to calculate the moment of inertia of a symmetrical disk, ten centimeters thick and 50 centimeters across, with 25 kg mass. Assume lossless bearings and no air friction if you like, and a 90 percent efficient generator setup. Now, what is the stored energy of rotation of that disk at 2500 RPM? How long will it take, powering a 5 Watt load, to slow down to 2490 RPM? Can you measure a less than one percent change in RPM with your eyeballs, or even a hand-held optical tachometer? You will fall asleep before you see that much change in the RPM of a heavy, clean flywheel on good bearings.

Now, can you point to A SINGLE ONE of any "overunity" pendulum experiments where this kind of testing approach was performed? That is, a reasonable calculation of stored energy of position/motion, and an accurate set of measurements of the critical parameters of energy storage, power dissipation by the load, and longterm plots of time vs. amplitude of swing?

I will wager a cheeseburger that you cannot.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 14, 2014, 01:15:13 PM
Not many, and the only ones who do, are wrong. There is nothing OU about those systems and you are wrong too, Lawrence. If the system is not powered, the amplitude of the swing will decrease as your external weight is lifted over and over. If the system is powered, the input power may replace the losses on a 1 to 1 basis. You have no coherent measurements to support your contentions. Any pendulum, single double or chaotic, is only a flywheel in a different configuration, converting potential energy of position to kinetic energy of motion.


TK
 
Let us focus on the Milkovic 2SO.  Please re-examine the video.  Compare the work done by the finger push and the lifting of the Weight twice.  The overunity or lead-out of gravitational energy occurs at this point.
 
I now have the Chan Wheel to do accurate scientific experiments.  Some repair work needs to be done. 
 
The plan is to produce a few Chan WHeels and send them to the local Universities in Hong Kong to do accurate measurements.
 
Please check the mathematics and Physics of the horizontally pushed pendulum.  Please point out what is wrong. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on December 14, 2014, 03:14:46 PM

Compare the work done by the finger push and the lifting of the Weight twice.

You have to be very careful that, as the weight descends, it is not putting back into the system the energy that is used to lift it, resulting in no net overall gain.

I think the Ting wheel is far more interesting because it deals with electrical issues which make OU more explainable (quantum foam, charged particles jumping into existence and gone again etc etc).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on December 14, 2014, 03:57:55 PM
I always thought that the two stage oscillator was suspiciously similar to a common balance scale... :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 14, 2014, 09:41:08 PM
You have to be very careful that, as the weight descends, it is not putting back into the system the energy that is used to lift it, resulting in no net overall gain.

I think the Ting wheel is far more interesting because it deals with electrical issues which make OU more explainable (quantum foam, charged particles jumping into existence and gone again etc etc).

@Paul-R,
 
Thanks for the advice.  Our job is easier because we shall give away Chan Wheels to Universities to do more research and measurements.  I learned from my mistake - an old man with bad eyesight, bad hearing and weak bones MUST not do experiments involving lifting of many Kg weights.
 
We shall focus on the comparison of INPUT at the finger push stage and the OUTPUT of lifting the Weight twice.  That can be a continuous process.  Effectively, we want to confirm the attached theoretical concept.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 14, 2014, 09:50:13 PM
I always thought that the two stage oscillator was suspiciously similar to a common balance scale... :)

@noonespecial,
 
If you keep jumping up and down on the scale, you will simulate the Milkovic 2SO better.  The pendulum moment is not constant.  It is the sum of the weight of the pendulum bob plus the centrifugal force.  The centrifugal force is highest when the velocity is highest (when the bob is at lowest position).
 
The "jumping" is the magic that leads-out or brings-in gravitational energy.
 
See the Chan Wheel videos again...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 14, 2014, 10:02:57 PM
You have to be very careful that, as the weight descends, it is not putting back into the system the energy that is used to lift it, resulting in no net overall gain.

I think the Ting wheel is far more interesting because it deals with electrical issues which make OU more explainable (quantum foam, charged particles jumping into existence and gone again etc etc).

The Ting Wheel or other Pulse Wheels are far more interesting or practical because they can lead-out or bring-in magnetic or electromagnetic energy (that can be hundreds of thousands times more than gravitational energy).  Chan wheel is like human muscle flight.  Pulse Wheels are similar to using engines.  The only problem is that most Pulse Wheel Researchers have not figured out "pulsing at the right time" or pushing the pendulum at the right time.  They need to research on resonance more. 
 
The QEGs have achieved resonance.  It is a matter of determining how much electromagnetic energy can be brought-in...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on December 15, 2014, 04:24:15 AM

@noonespecial,
 
If you keep jumping up and down on the scale, you will simulate the Milkovic 2SO better.  The pendulum moment is not constant.  It is the sum of the weight of the pendulum bob plus the centrifugal force.  The centrifugal force is highest when the velocity is highest (when the bob is at lowest position).
 
The "jumping" is the magic that leads-out or brings-in gravitational energy.
 
See the Chan Wheel videos again...


The traditional 2SO seems very similar to a parametric oscillator. The energy gained by gravitational acceleration and centrifugal force is transferred to the 'work' end of the lever. But it would seem that the transfer of that energy comes at the cost of pendulum amplitude. It will be interesting to see your test results and I look forward to them.


Best regards!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 15, 2014, 04:56:59 AM

The traditional 2SO seems very similar to a parametric oscillator. The energy gained by gravitational acceleration and centrifugal force is transferred to the 'work' end of the lever. But it would seem that the transfer of that energy comes at the cost of pendulum amplitude. It will be interesting to see your test results and I look forward to them.


Best regards!

Please check the Raymond Head video again.  Note that lead-out energy occurs after the amplitude had been built up.  The INPUT of finger push then lifted the 74 pound Weight twice.  The lifting of the 74 pound Weight is regarded as OUTPUT.  From this video alone, there is strong evidence of Lead-Out Energy as the amplitude of oscillation hardly decreased.

We can always email Mr. Head for him to do the accurate comparison measurements.  He should get the credit.

At the same time, we have one Chan Wheel and are in the process of building more.  These simple Chan Wheels will allow multiple parties to do accurate measurements.

The most important experiment involving the Chan Wheel is the comparison of balanced and unbalanced wheels.  The balanced wheel has more weight and thus the static (no motion) moment is higher than the unbalanced wheel.  However, it cannot lift the weight no matter how fast we spin the wheel.  The unbalanced wheel easily lifted the weight - even with no initial spinning by hand.  The attached weight can be placed at the top and allowed to fall.  That is enough to lift the weight.

We understand the obstacles.  We know that both USA and Chinese Governments are keeping the 225 HP Pulse Motor top secret.

As one of the Physics Professors put it: "If we were to accept the concept of lead-out energy, we would have to re-write the textbooks and change our lectures.  Unless Tsinghua or MIT or the like take the lead, we dare not give you support no matter how strong is the evidence. None of us are willing to risk our careers."

The Hong Kong Students have shown that they are willing to defy authority.  What will happen if they have Chan Wheels in their hands?  Will this generation spearhead Lead-Out Energy research???  They need to show the World that they are worthy of something...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 15, 2014, 12:01:08 PM
Analysis of the Christmas Gift continued
 

3.   The Chan Wheel is essentially the Milkovic 2SO with the pendulum replaced by the unbalanced wheel.  It is easy to construct.  It can demonstrate that the unbalanced wheel can bring in gravitational energy.  Once the wheel is balanced, it will NOT bring in gravitational energy.
 
Many asked the question: “Tseung, do you have a working OU device?  Theory is useless unless it is backed up by experiments.  Just looking at experimental results by third party is not conclusive.  Video demonstrations can be faked.”
 
After I saw the light (Milkovic 2SO is OU!), I worked with Mr. Peter Chan to produce the Chan Wheel.  We replaced the pendulum with an unbalanced wheel.  As expected, the Milkovic 2SO result of lifting weight was demonstrated.
 
The additional bonus is that – we can demonstrate that a balanced wheel CANNOT lift the Weight and thus cannot lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.  See the following youtube videos:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGaQ8a1PIt8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGaQ8a1PIt8)  When the wheel is balanced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkis7FUVqKY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkis7FUVqKY)  When the wheel is unbalanced.
 
Engineers have been brainwashed to produce balanced devices.  They are not used to designing unbalanced systems.  The key to bringing-in gravitational energy is the oscillation!
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on December 15, 2014, 01:46:22 PM
Please check the Raymond Head video again.  Note that lead-out energy occurs after the amplitude had been built up.  The INPUT of finger push then lifted the 74 pound Weight twice.  The lifting of the 74 pound Weight is regarded as OUTPUT.  From this video alone, there is strong evidence of Lead-Out Energy as the amplitude of oscillation hardly decreased.



Yes, I guess my only point was that the 2SO by itself is NOT a OU device. In its simplest form, its a lever where a downward force at one end creates a lifting force at the other. The absolute best it can do is near 100% efficiency (minus pivotal frictional losses) because the formula is F x D = F x D.


Any gain greater than 100% will be realized in the transfer of energy TO the input device (bicycle wheel in your case) relative to the final output. For instance, it would interesting to see if you could drive your input wheel with a 100 watt motor and then turn a >100 watt output generator. This would silence any critics.


Best regards!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on December 15, 2014, 07:34:39 PM
The only problem is that most Pulse Wheel Researchers have not figured out "pulsing at the right time"

This is not so. if you check Patrick's book, there is an enormous amount about various people's timing discs, Hall effect switches etc to ensure precisely that.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 15, 2014, 10:58:31 PM
Analysis of the Christmas Gift continued
 
4.   The mechanical engineers have been brainwashed to the concept of balance.  Any unbalanced system is considered “evil”.  That is probably why they never seriously looked at the unbalanced wheel.
 
The flywheels have been around for decades.  They were used as energy storage devices and as devices to smooth out vibrations.  The engineers have never been taught the theory of lead-out energy.  They never know that environmental energy such as gravitational energy, magnetic, electromagnetic or electron motion, electron cloud energy can be brought into a system.  They mainly used fossil fuels (chemical energy as a subset of electron cloud energy) and polluted the environment.
 
Many had looked at the Milkovic 2SO.  Some universities and technical colleges even used it as student projects.  Few saw the link with the unbalanced wheel.  Almost none saw that gravitational energy was brough-in. 
 
It is still not too late to pour resources to research into unbalanced wheels and lead out energy.  The USA and Chinese Governments had their hands on the 225 HP Pulse motors for many years…
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 15, 2014, 11:10:06 PM

Yes, I guess my only point was that the 2SO by itself is NOT a OU device. In its simplest form, its a lever where a downward force at one end creates a lifting force at the other. The absolute best it can do is near 100% efficiency (minus pivotal frictional losses) because the formula is F x D = F x D.


Any gain greater than 100% will be realized in the transfer of energy TO the input device (bicycle wheel in your case) relative to the final output. For instance, it would interesting to see if you could drive your input wheel with a 100 watt motor and then turn a >100 watt output generator. This would silence any critics.


Best regards!

Many looked and could not see.  It is a matter of scientifically measuring the INPUT (finger push) with the OUTPUT (74 pound weight lifted twice).
 
Work = Force x Displacement
 
The Input Work = push by finger x an inch or so displacement.
The Output Work = Lifting of the 74 pound weight x more than an inch displacement.
 
We now can tune the Chan Wheel to get the OUTPUT work >> INPUT work.  The accurate scientific measurement will come (possibly from more than one source).  You can build a simple Chan Wheel to do the same.
 
You looked and did not see that the Milkovic 2SO by itself can already be an OU device. (I also looked and did not see for 10 years!) The OU comes from the lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 15, 2014, 11:18:57 PM
This is not so. if you check Patrick's book, there is an enormous amount about various people's timing discs, Hall effect switches etc to ensure precisely that.

You are right.  Many tried and succeeded.  However, few got the credit they deserved.  Many got discouraged by the trolls and the road block of "Conservation of Energy".  The Lead-out energy theory will remove the road block and silence the trolls...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 16, 2014, 08:36:41 PM
Analysis of the Christmas Gift
 
5.   The Yuen Wheel consists of two or more unbalanced wheels.  Experimenting with the size of the wheel, the magnitude and number of weights on the rim of the wheel is likely to yield the Bessler Wheel which can lead out gravitational energy to rotate for 53 days and do some mechanical work.
 
The Yuen Wheel is interesting because it has been used to test the various parameters of the unbalanced wheel.  We experimented with the number of weights and their positions on the rim of the bicycle wheel.  We also experimented with one, two, three and four wheels on the same axle.  We shall do some experiments with two axles.
 
The experimental results so far suggested that the Bessler Wheel may not be a hoax.  We may indeed lead out enough gravitational energy to make the device running forever with some energy to spare.
 
However, we shall focus on the Chan Wheel first.  The Chan Wheel will provide the necessary scientific data to confirm the lead-out energy theory.  Once the theory is confirmed beyond any shadow of doubt, the rest will be smooth sailing.  One of the most difficult part in measuring the Input Energy of the Milkovic 2SO has been solved in the Chan Wheel.  We measured the drop in potential energy of the weight at the rim.
 
Some actually argued that the Milkovic 2SO itself is sufficient proof already.  However, we would like to have a working lead-out energy device in our own “laborartory”.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 16, 2014, 08:49:24 PM
Analysis of the Christmas Gift
 
6.   If gravitational energy can be brought in, magnetic or electromagnetic energy must be able to be brought in similarly.  We can replace the pendulum with a magnet or do the equivalent of a horizontal pendulum with magnetic fields.
 
This shows the true power of a theory.  If the theory is correct, it can project or predict other cases not covered by the initial experiments.  If the Lead-Out Energy Theory is correct, it predicts not only the leading out of gravitational energy.  It also predicts the leading out of magnetic and electromagnetic energies.  That will give solid theoretical ground for research into Pulse Motors, Motionless Flux Change devices etc. 
 
The many devices discussed in the Patrick Kelly Book will see day light.  The obstacle posted by “the Law of Conservation of Energy cannot be violated” is removed.  If we can lead-out or bring-in energy from the surrounding environment, we do not violate this Law.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on December 17, 2014, 12:21:37 AM
Analysis of the Christmas Gift
 
5.   The Yuen Wheel consists of two or more unbalanced wheels.  Experimenting with the size of the wheel, the magnitude and number of weights on the rim of the wheel is likely to yield the Bessler Wheel which can lead out gravitational energy to rotate for 53 days and do some mechanical work.
 
The Yuen Wheel is interesting because it has been used to test the various parameters of the unbalanced wheel.  We experimented with the number of weights and their positions on the rim of the bicycle wheel.  We also experimented with one, two, three and four wheels on the same axle.  We shall do some experiments with two axles.
 
The experimental results so far suggested that the Bessler Wheel may not be a hoax.  We may indeed lead out enough gravitational energy to make the device running forever with some energy to spare.
 
However, we shall focus on the Chan Wheel first.  The Chan Wheel will provide the necessary scientific data to confirm the lead-out energy theory.  Once the theory is confirmed beyond any shadow of doubt, the rest will be smooth sailing.  One of the most difficult part in measuring the Input Energy of the Milkovic 2SO has been solved in the Chan Wheel.  We measured the drop in potential energy of the weight at the rim.
 
Some actually argued that the Milkovic 2SO itself is sufficient proof already.  However, we would like to have a working lead-out energy device in our own “laborartory”.


I would be interested in seeing one running under load. I have built several 2SO devices and they all ran fine until a load was applied and then they would fail. Please be sure to add this to your testing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 17, 2014, 06:42:48 AM

I would be interested in seeing one running under load. I have built several 2SO devices and they all ran fine until a load was applied and then they would fail. Please be sure to add this to your testing.

LOL
yes the the 2So ran fine without load ...
I can lift 10000 kilos with one finger ... and a very very very big lever !!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 17, 2014, 12:36:49 PM
Analysis of the Christmas Gift

7.   The magnetic or electromagnetic fields can be much more powerful than the gravitational field.  We can change the polarity, the magnitude and the direction of magnetic or electromagnetic fields easily.
 
This is why the Lead-Out Energy Theory is so important.  Others use the term zero point energy.  We use standard Physics and Mathematics. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on December 17, 2014, 05:10:29 PM
LOL
yes the the 2So ran fine without load ...
I can lift 10000 kilos with one finger ... and a very very very big lever !!


It's not the lever portion that fails but rather the output falls out of resonance with the input driving it. As long as the output load remains within the resonant window it will run. If the load exceeds this window, it will slow down and stop.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 18, 2014, 08:15:51 AM

It's not the lever portion that fails but rather the output falls out of resonance with the input driving it. As long as the output load remains within the resonant window it will run. If the load exceeds this window, it will slow down and stop.

you need to learn more physics
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 18, 2014, 03:45:17 PM
The first set of experimental results from the Chan Wheel.
The Output was assumed to be W1 x g x h1.
Where W1 is the Weight on the LHS to be lifted.  It was 1.25kg.
g is the gravitational constant.
h1 was estimated as shown in the attached diagram.

The value of h1 varied from 2.1cm to 7cm.  The 2.1cm was obtained when the screws were loose.  Once the screws were tightened, most figures fluctuated around 4.6cm.  There were a few values close to 7cm.  One possible explanation might be the slight sliding of the pivot point position.  The next experiment will eliminate this problem.

The Input was assumed to be the loss of potential energy of the Unbalanced Weight W2.  W2 was positioned at the top position and allowed to fall (position A).  The Unbalanced Wheel would rotate and the highest position reached (B) was found.  In the experiment, this drop in height h2 was found from examining the video frame by frame.  W2 was 0.26kg.  The drop in height was 3.5cm.

Thus the coefficient of performance COP = Output energy / Input Energy
  = (W1 x g x h1)  / (W2 x g x h2)
  = (1.25 x g x 4.6) / (0.26 x g x 3.5)
  = 6.32

This confirms that the Chan Wheel is overunity as expected.  More experiments will follow to ensure such results are consistent and reproducible.  We know that energy required to maintain a balanced wheel is weight independent.  The frictional force is the factor to overcome.  The energy required to maintain the rotation of an unbalanced wheel is not understood well yet…

From the experiments so far, a shaky Chan wheel will lose much energy.  A firm Chan Wheel showed a COP of 6.32.  This may be solid evidence of Lead-out energy.

Have other 2SO researchers tried the above experiment???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on December 18, 2014, 04:52:00 PM
you need to learn more physics


Ouch! I feel soundly admonished and I accept your kind offer. I am willing to be shown where my statement is deficient because I'm always willing to learn something new.


Looking forward to your response!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 18, 2014, 05:34:13 PM
Input height estimation from the angle and the radius via the video.
 
The frame with the unbalance weight at position B is shown below.
 
It is obvious from the experimental data so far that the Output energy is much more than the Input energy.  Source is lead-out energy.  Shall do much more testing with Mr. Peter Chan and with third party universities.
 
video in:
http://youtu.be/XJrPzkdFBHU (http://youtu.be/XJrPzkdFBHU)
 
God Bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 18, 2014, 06:00:18 PM

Ouch! I feel soundly admonished and I accept your kind offer. I am willing to be shown where my statement is deficient because I'm always willing to learn something new.


Looking forward to your response!

you put your device a litle above the resonance
then you put a load ...
if it is slowing => you get resonance ... and more output ( with what you think ! )

now did it stops ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 19, 2014, 08:50:10 PM
you put your device a litle above the resonance
then you put a load ...
if it is slowing => you get resonance ... and more output ( with what you think ! )

now did it stops ?

Thank you tagor.
 
You probably explained why the Chan Wheel showed a much higher lifting of the weight in the third, forth, fifth or sixth rotations sometimes.  The Chan Wheel was repaired.  There was no more sliding of the pivot.  The surprising result of much higher lifting of the weight stated above was repeated and reproduced every time (6 times).  COP was clearly much greater than 6.32.  The ruler set up was not able to measure the height lifted but the value was definitely greater than 10cm compared with 4.6cm in previous measurements.
 
Thus 12 times more output was confirmed from such experiments.
 
Christmas present is now ready.  Blessed be the Almighty.
 
http://youtu.be/uU0WFJ6ezLc (http://youtu.be/uU0WFJ6ezLc)
 
The comparison with the balanced Chan Wheel that will not lift weight is shown here.
 
 http://youtu.be/qHrDL3d4Wt8 (http://youtu.be/qHrDL3d4Wt8)


 
We shall arrange for third party engineers to validate the results and then send two Chan Wheels to local Hong Kong Universities for more scientific and accurate measurements.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 20, 2014, 02:36:07 AM
The new question is:
 
1.  To maintain the rotation of a balanced wheel, the energy required is to overcome friction.  The weight of the wheel is not an important factor.
 
2.  What is the energy required to maintain the rotation of an unbalanced Wheel?
 
3.  If the unbalanced does not do a full rotation, it will swing backwards and forwards like a pendulum.  The energy required will be similar to that of a pendulum.
 
4.  If a pulsd pendulum can lead out gravitational energy, can an unbalanced wheel with initial excess potential energy lead out gravitational energy?
 
5.  Will that explain why the Weight can be lifted to greater height at the 3rd to 6th rotations sometimes? 
 
6.  There can be vigorous mathematics for the pulsed pendulum.  Can there be similar mathematics to determine the actual energy lead-out or bring-in for the Milkovic 2SO or the Chan Wheel?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 20, 2014, 08:59:13 AM

Thus 12 times more output was confirmed from such experiments.

with this miraculous COP ...

I am waiting :

1) transformed weith-lift into heat
2) transformed heat into electricity
3) transformed electricity into mecanical work
4) and bingo , loop the device !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 20, 2014, 09:01:34 PM
with this miraculous COP ...

I am waiting :

1) transformed weight-lift into heat
2) transformed heat into electricity
3) transformed electricity into mecanical work
4) and bingo , loop the device !

Dear Tagor,
 
The much easier strategy is:
 
  1. Get third party engineers to confirm the results at Mr. Peter Chan’s Office.
 Help them to build their own Chan Wheels.  Have two or more local universities to do more   vigorous scientific measurements.
  2. Once the Lead-out Theory is confirmed beyond any shadow of doubt, heavily promote it.
  3. Other experiments will be done by multiple parties simultaneously.

·        Convert up and down motion into circular motion to do loopback.
·        Convert up and down motion into electricity by moving iron rod in coil.
·        Put Unbalanced Wheel in horizontal position and simulate a horizontal pendulum.  Use magnetic fields instead of gravitational field to lead out energy.
·        Change the simple Unbalanced Wheel to a Pulse Wheel with magnets and electromagnets.
·        Use two Unbalanced Wheels to produce the Bessler Wheel effect – rotate forever. (Yuen Wheel). 
·        Re-examine existing Pulse Wheels to see the resonance (or pushing pendulum at right time) mechanisms.  Check that these Wheels are actually at best resonance conditions.
·        Check whether the Chinese or USA Government will release details of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.
·        Pour funding into promising “overunity or free” energy research projects.  Some likely candidates include the WITTS generator or the QEG; the Tong or Ting Wheels; the motionless devices such as the Steven Mark TPU etc.
·        Let some leading Universities conduct seminars and conferences on “Lead-out Energy” research.  Check whether the assumption of leading-out electron motion or electron cloud energy is correct.
·        Get one or more Lead-out Energy devices to produce 5KW for the average home and solve the energy crisis forever…
 
I would not advise pouring too much resource into pure gravitational devices.  It is like human muscle flight.  The leading-out of magnetic and electromagnetic energy is more practical. 
 
God Bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 21, 2014, 01:27:09 PM
you can look the 2so like this pic



here you can study the pendulum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum

and the double pendulum


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 21, 2014, 01:32:10 PM

and also you can see the oscillation like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillation

look at the coupled oscillation


Quote
Oscillation is the repetitive variation, typically in time, of some measure about a
central value (often a point of equilibrium) or between two or more different states.
Familiar examples include a swinging pendulum and alternating current power




and you can use the electro-mechanical analogy to simulate your device
before spending a lot of money in it


http://lpsa.swarthmore.edu/Analogs/ElectricalMechanicalAnalogs.html

after you can calculate the work done by the big mass ...


==> the work done by the big mass is absolutely ZERO or

00000000000
or
000,000,000,000.00
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on December 21, 2014, 02:44:32 PM
Like this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumMNeAVD-8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 21, 2014, 04:38:53 PM
you can look the 2so like this pic



here you can study the pendulum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum)

and the double pendulum


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum)

Now add a horizontal push or pulse to the analysis.  See if you get the same result as my lead-out energy theory.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 21, 2014, 04:47:36 PM
Like this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumMNeAVD-8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumMNeAVD-8)

it is not gravity assisted

but inertial assited !

and COP is under 0.8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on December 21, 2014, 04:50:59 PM

Now add a horizontal push or pulse to the analysis.  See if you get the same result as my lead-out energy theory.

yes horizontal push is at NO COST ...

we are waiting for your device
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 21, 2014, 04:58:33 PM
The lead-out energy as applied to the seesaw when a "jumping" load is applied.
 
Let us assume a balanced seesaw with weight W1 at both ends.  The LHS has a weight W1.  The RHS has an unbalanced wheel with unbalanced weight W2 at the rim and weight W3 of the wheel.  W2 plus W3 equals W1.  No gravitational energy will be lead-out in steady or no motion state.
 
With the unbalanced wheel at the RHS rotating, the force exerted downwards will vary with the centrifugal force.  It can be compared with a person jumping up and down at the end of the seesaw or lever.
 
When the Weight W2 is at the top position (highest potential energy) and lowest kinetic energy (lowest velocity), the downward force will be lower than W1.  The Weight W1 on the LHS will do work against gravity to cause anti-clockwise rotation.  This energy "enters" the seesaw system.  When the Weight W2 is at the lowest position, the downward force will be higher than W1.  The Unbalanced Wheel will do work against gravity to cause clockwise rotation.  This energy "enters" the seesaw system.
 
Thus the "jumping" brings in potential energy equal to W2 x g x h where h is the total height moved by W2 in the seesaw view.
 
This is the more correct analysis of lead-out energy of the seesaw.  The Milkovic 2SO or Chan Wheel leads-out energy from pendulum motion and also from seesaw motion.
 
God Bless.  The Physics and Mathematics is now complete.  The Milkovic 2SO and the Chan Wheen are both lead-out energy devices.  Both lead-out gravitational energy.

Leading out magnetic and electromagnetic energy follows a similar path.
 
I shall discuss the arrangement of a pure magnet wheel such as the Wang Motor in the coming posts.  The Wang Wheel can lead-out magnetic energy by clever arrangement and shielding.  The Minota Wheel from Japan is similar.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 21, 2014, 11:20:17 PM
So that would be W1xgxh for the output and then the input would be

(W2xgxh)+(W3xgxh)

With W3h being the start height from table to end height from table without the lever arm being allowed to move after lift of the output and without the wheel being allowed to spin backwards.

W2h would just be the distance from the table of the axle at start minus the distance from table at the end of the half cycle without the arm being able to move it back up. IOW how far down the wheel traveled.

You will notice that the W3 weight will move down a lot further and then back up some distance as the wheel continues to rotate but it will not make it back up to the start angle position of the wheel,, TDC of the wheel.

This drop from TDC plus the drop in wheel height will equal the drop in g of that weight.

This is the stuff I came up with when testing a very similar setup.  I used one way bearings to stop the reverse movements of both the wheel and the lever arm.

Dear Webby1,
 
Thank you for your analysis.  I was puzzled at the huge COP.  Now that the new comparison is:
Output = W1xgxh and
Input = (W2xgxh)+(W3xgxh)

That brings COP way down.  I shall repeat the experiments and see if COP is still greater than 1.  I believe it will still be greater than 1 because of the "jumping" at one end of the lever will lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.
 
Any leading-out or bringing-in of gravitational energy will be a breakthrough.  It will open the doors to leading-out or bringing-in of magnetic or electromagnetic energy that can be thousands times more.
 
Keep the constructive comments coming...  We are all students with much to learn in this new field.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on December 22, 2014, 05:04:14 PM

Any leading-out or bringing-in of gravitational energy will be a breakthrough.
Lawrence: You mention leading in and bringing out regularly but what is the precise definition of these terms and from where is the energy lead in or brought out?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 22, 2014, 08:00:02 PM
Another video showing Chan Wheel lifting Weight W1 higher after first swing.
 
http://youtu.be/d4Bxnv3dewI (http://youtu.be/d4Bxnv3dewI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 22, 2014, 08:52:38 PM
Lawrence: You mention leading in and bringing out regularly but what is the precise definition of these terms and from where is the energy lead in or brought out?

Paul-R:
 
In a traditional machine,
the Input energy X = the Output energy Z1 + energy loss Z2.
X = Z1 + Z2
Z1 = X – Z2 and thus the Output Z1 cannot be greater than X.
 
In the Lead-out or bring-in energy machine, additional energy Y comes from the environment.  One example discussed in the Milkovic 2SO is gravitational energy.  When you push a pendulum horizontally, the physics and mathematics show that the tension in the string increases.  The vertical component of the tension of the string lifts the bob.  This energy is NOT transferred from the user supplied horizontal energy.  This "non obvious" energy is referred to as the lead-out or bring-in energy.
 
In a lead-out energy machine
The user supplied energy X + Lead-out energy Y = Output energy Z1 + Loss Z2
X + Y = Z1 + Z2
Z1 = X + Y – Z2  Thus Z1 can be greater than X  if Y is greater than Z2.
 
If we just compare Z1 and X, we may fall into the trap of saying that
the Observed Output Energy Z1 is greater than the Observed Input Energy X.
There is a violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy.
 
The correct Input Energy is X + Y.  The Law of Conservation of Energy is obeyed!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 23, 2014, 02:58:20 AM
This is likely to be my last post before Christmas.  Merry Christmas to you all.
 
The attached is the Analysis of the Christmas Gift - somewhat rushed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 25, 2014, 08:32:43 PM
Open the Christmas Gift

Now is Boxing day.  Time to open the Christmas Gifts.

The most important element of the Gift is confirmation of Lead-out or Bring-in Energy Theory.

From the theoretical point of view, there are two calculations to consider.

1.   When a horizontal push is applied to a pendulum, the tension in the string will increase.  The vertical component of the tension in the string will lead-out gravitational energy.  The pushed pendulum will have this extra lead-out or bring-in energy.  Thus a lead-out or bring-in energy device will not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.

2.   When a Milkovic two stage oscillator lifts the weight W1, gravitational energy is again lead-out or brought-in.  The swinging pendulum or unbalanced wheel produces a “jumping” action – the force exerted on the pendulum side varies with the change in centrifugal force.  When this centrifugal force is highest (tangential velocity highest), the clockwise moment will be higher and the Weight W1 is lifted.  Gravitational Energy is brought-in.  When the centrifugal force is low, the anti-clockwise moment of the Weight W1 returns the lever system to the initial condition.  The energy required to maintain the swinging motion or unbalanced wheel rotation can be much less than that used to lift the Weight W1.

Thus gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in via oscillations or vibrations.  An important element is providing the pulse at the correct time. That is similar to pushing a swing at the right time.  The more scientific term is resonance.

Once the lead-out energy theory is thoroughly understood, it can be applied to magnetic, electromagnetic or flux change systems.  There is NO violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy.

The most powerful energy source is likely to be the electron motion or electron cloud energy.  Chemical Energy is just a subset of such energy.  When we can lead-out such energy, we do not need to pollute the environment.

Many lead-out energy devices are actually built.  Most inventors do not use the lead-out energy to explain their inventions.  They tried to fight the road block of “violating the Law of Conservation of Energy”.  They failed to get the support and credit they deserved.  The Christmas Gift will help them remove the road block.  Amen.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 26, 2014, 01:59:45 AM
Experimental evidence of Lead-out Energy Theory (the Christmas Gift to the World).

In analyzing the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum as shown on youtube:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8

1. Pushing the pendulum horizontally leads out gravitational energy (not obvious but theoretically sound).

2. Finger push of one to two inches lifted a 74 pound weight for about the same distance.  This can be repeated for long periods.  Best comparison should be the finger push energy verses the potential energy gained by the Weight W1.

3. The Chan wheel replaces the pendulum with an unbalanced wheel.  The Weight W1 can be lifted with a small drop in potential energy of the Unbalanced Weight W2.  The energy required to maintain the rotation of a balanced wheel is weight independent  The energy is used to overcome friction only. 

4.  The energy required to maintain rotation of an Unbalanced Wheel  has not been well researched.  One important energy loss to consider is the vibration of the device.  If this loss is kept low, the Input energy (finger push) is much less than Output energy (lifting of Weight W1).  The difference is the lead-out gravitational energy.  Many looked but could not see.

5.  The Chan Wheel is easy to construct.  One Chan Wheel is available in Hong Kong for those interested to experiment and validate. The plan is to have at least two more for local universities to confirm and improve.  All researchers are encouraged to replicate the simple (no feedback) Chan Wheel.  The cost is likely to be less than USD100.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 26, 2014, 07:18:33 PM
Open invitation to a Presentation of Lead-out Energy

Dear Sir/Madam,

We shall do a Presentation and Demonstration of the Lead-out Energy Theory on Jan 11, 2015.  The details are as follows:

Place:
Office of  Mr. Peter Chan
Unit C, 15/F, Block 1
Tai Ping Ind. Center
57 Ting Kok Road
Tai Po, N.T.
Hong Kong

Time:  Jan 11, 2015 (Sunday) 2pm onwards

Agenda:
1.    Introduce the participants
2.   Introduce the Lead-out Energy Theory
3.   Physics and Mathematics supporting the Lead-out Energy Theory
4.   Experimental evidence from Internet – Milkovic two stage pendulum
5.   Actual demonstration – Chan Wheel
6.   Open Discussions

Optionally, there will be a dinner afterwards for those interested.  Cost of the Dinner = HK$100.  The Presentation and Demonstration is free.  Please email Lawrencetseung@yahoo.com if you are interested.

For background information, please read:
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg428719/#msg428719

Yours sincerely,

Peter Chan
Lawrence Tseung
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 27, 2014, 04:02:47 AM
technique used to get accurate results.


1.  Take video.
2.  Use Microsoft movie maker to examine frame by frame,
3.  For Input - get highest position of unbalanced Weight after release.
4.  For Output - get maximum height reached
5.  Use Paint to obtain angle and calculate Input (h = R x (1-cos(x))


The Chan Wheel itself can be "tuned" to get good results.  The Weights and lever arm lengths can be adjusted.


There is no need to rely on quick reaction of experimenter.  Participants are encouraged to take their own video and do the validation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on December 27, 2014, 10:25:21 PM

 
a. In the Lead-out or bring-in energy machine, additional energy Y comes from the environment.

b. This energy is NOT transferred from the user supplied horizontal energy. 


a. How does it come from the environment? From where, exactly?

b. Why is it not so transferred? (It is how we were taught and seems quite reasonable)

I hope you had a good Christmas.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 28, 2014, 07:53:10 PM
a. How does it come from the environment? From where, exactly?

b. Why is it not so transferred? (It is how we were taught and seems quite reasonable)

I hope you had a good Christmas.


1. In the simple case of a swinging pendulum with no outside forces and zero friction, there will be constant exchange of potential and kinetic energy.  The swinging pendulum is said to exhibit simple harmonic motion.  This is taught in all Schools and is absolutely correct.

2. When we apply a horizontal force to a stationary or a swinging pendulum, the "classroom" explanation is that the entire energy input must be from the work done by the horizontal force.  There is no energy lead-out or brought-in.

3. Another explanation that obeys the Laws of Physics is that the horizontal force will increase the tension in the string.  This increased tension will have a vertical component of force.  This vertical component will lift the pendulum bob.  This is the lead-out or bring-in of gravitational energy.  This energy is "stored" in the pendulum system.  For small angles, 2 parts of horizontal energy will lead-out 1 part of vertical gravitational energy.  This explanation is NOT taught in "classrooms".

In Physics, there may be more than one explanation to an observed phenomenon.  The scientific approach is to examine whether the explanation violates any existing Laws.  If the explanation does not violate any existing laws, we should try to use it to predict possible consequences.  We should also do experiments to verify the predicted consequences.

The Lee-Tseung Lead-out Theory predicts that the actual INPUT to a lead-out energy device is the sum of the user supplied energy X plus the lead-out energy Y.  This sum can be greater than the observed OUTPUT energy Z.  In other words, X + Y > Z.  This is physically and mathematically possible.

The experimental evidence comes from the Milkovic two stage pendulum or the Chan Wheel.  The INPUT (finger push of an inch) is less than the OUTPUT (74 pound weight raised to around an inch).  Raymond Head did not do accurate measurements.  He stated what he found to be “obvious”.

There is another action that would lead-out gravitational energy in a two stage pendulum.  That is the “jumping” action on a lever or seesaw system. If the Weight on the LHS of a seesaw is 100 pounds and the Weight on the RHS is 95 pounds, the lever will be tilted towards the LHS (assuming that the lever arms are equal).  But if the 95 pound weight “jumps” up and down, the force exerted may vary from zero to more than 100 pounds.  A swinging pendulum or an unbalanced wheel exhibit such “jumping” effects.  When the RHS force is greater than 100 pounds, the Weight on the LHS will be lifted.  Work is done against gravity.  Gravitational energy is lead-out or brought-in into the lever system.  When the RHS force is less than 100 pounds, the 100 pound Weight on the LHS will tilt the lever back to its original tilted position.  So long as there is jumping action, gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in into the lever system.

I do not think the "jumping" effect is generally taught in "classrooms."

We have all seen athletes on the trampoline.  One “classroom” explanation of the great height achieved is that the amount of energy needed comes totally from the athlete.  Another “plausible” explanation is that some gravitational energy is lead-out or brought-in.

An accurate INPUT and OUTPUT measurement of the Milkovic 2SO will prove whether OUTPUT energy is greater than INPUT energy.

The Chan Wheel tries to do the same verification in a slightly different way.  The pendulum is replaced by an unbalanced wheel.  Experiments are being done.  Preliminary results show that the OUTPUT energy varied greatly with the “vibration” and the “setup” of the Chan Wheel.  If the screws are loose, the Chan Wheel shakes visibly.  The OUTPUT energy is low.  When the screws were tightened, the OUTPUT energy increased greatly.  However, the setup (actual lever arm lengths and Weights used) also changed the OUTPUT energy measurements.

More experiments are being done.  We shall “freeze” a setup that conclusively shows OUTPUT > INPUT.  Third parties will be invited to repeat and validate this setup.  They will also be encouraged to build their own Chan Wheels and find other setups.  (Hunting for resonance is similar to pushing the swing at the correct time.  Pushing with brute force at the wrong time may not get a greater swing.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 29, 2014, 12:23:36 PM
The frozen Chan Wheel

http://youtu.be/HR2hJGZI2Lg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 29, 2014, 05:47:13 PM
Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
 December 2014 - News
 
 
 1.  Energy Turning-Point  --  New article by Veljko Milkovic
 
 By observing living beings, it is not hard to notice that almost all movement is oscillatory. Just as the wind swings branches, many other plants bend under the force of the wind, thanks to their elasticity. The birds fly by flapping their wings; fish are similar as they oscillate their fins and tail. When discussing the movements of people and land animals, one can also talk about oscillatory movement. A similar situation can be found when observing internal organs. It is probably not by chance that such rational achievements exist in all living beings...
 
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/V...ning-Point.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energy_Turning-Point.pdf)
 
 
 2.  Dry Friction and the Milkovic Effect  --  New scientific phenomena
 
 Jovan Marjanovic, M.Sc, defined the occurrence of the Milkovic Effect in his new paper and thus gave the scientific support for Veljko Milkovic's thesis that the oscillations of the pendulum are more efficient than rotations.
 
 The goal of this paper is to exclude dry friction as a cause of the increased duration of oscillation of a pendulum when compared to the rotation of a wheel, starting after the initiation of their movement and waiting until the movement is stopped by itself. Since this phenomenon was discovered by Veljko Milkovic, an inventor and a member of the academy of inventors of Serbia (SAIN),the author has chosen to name it the Milkovic Effect. The opinion of the author is that this phenomenon is complementary to the Aspden Effect, which will be further discussed in this paper, along with other inertial anomalies known to the author.
 
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/J...c_Eff  ect.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Dry_Friction_and_the_Milkovic_Effect.pdf)
 
 
 3.  Laboratory proof of the superiority of the flexible pendulum versus the electric motor
 
 Laboratory measuring which proves the oscillation of a flexible pendulum to be a hundred times longer than the rotation of an asynchronous motor.
 Measurement performed by Prof. Slobodan Milovancev, Ph.D., Faculty of Technical Sciences, University in Novi Sad, Serbia, June 04, 2014.
 
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/M...ic_motor.p  df (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Measurement_flexible_pendulum_vs._electric_motor.pdf)
 
 
 4.  Support of the Academy of Sciences for further research
 
 Academy of Sciences, Cultures and Arts of Vojvodina (ANKUV), as one of the most relevant scientific institution in Serbia which gathers the leading university professors and scientists, gave the official scientific support and recommendation for further scientific research of a very efficient pump with a pendulum.
 
 Academy of Sciences, Cultures and Arts of Vojvodina
 Prof. Lidija Cveticanin, Ph.D., Academician Prof. Milorad Miloradov. Ph.D.
 
 Opinion on the Model of a Two-Stage Pendulum Driving a Pump
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/A...ing_a_Pump.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/ANKUV_Opinion_on_the_Model_of_a_Two-Stage_Pendulum_Driving_a_Pump.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 30, 2014, 04:48:51 PM
Some replica work from Russia based on the Milkovic pendulum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSRa_JcSKug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSRa_JcSKug)   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv4zeVUxvU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv4zeVUxvU)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 31, 2014, 12:42:00 AM
Some replica work from Russia based on the Milkovic pendulum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSRa_JcSKug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSRa_JcSKug)   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv4zeVUxvU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv4zeVUxvU)

Dear Merg,

Thank you for your information.  After reading them, I am convinced that Milkovic and team know that the Milkovic 2SO is using gravitational energy.  They know that they are bringing-in energy from the outside.  They may not have the same understanding of lead-out energy as myself but we are on the same path.

The points that are the same:
1.   We both recognize that we are using gravitational energy as the external energy source.
2.   We both realize that if we can harness gravitational energy, we can harness magnetic or electromagnetic energy in a similar way.

The points that are different:
1.   I believe the unbalanced wheel is superior to the pendulum.
2.   I believe that resonance of the Milkovic 2SO relying on the pendulum matching the seesaw is limiting.  The amount of energy that can be lead-out is limited.
3.   The amount of energy that can be lead-out via rotation and jumping can be much higher.

One other point from a religious group:
Is the World ready for the “free energy” technology?  Will the hatred, greed etc. that is prevalent now use the technology for evil purpose?  Should we wait for a morally prepared society before releasing such technology?  (Is that what WITTS is saying?)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: CANGAS on December 31, 2014, 08:46:22 AM
Dear Merg,

Thank you for your information.  After reading them, I am convinced that Milkovic and team know that the Milkovic 2SO is using gravitational energy.  They know that they are bringing-in energy from the outside.  They may not have the same understanding of lead-out energy as myself but we are on the same path.

The points that are the same:
1.   We both recognize that we are using gravitational energy as the external energy source.
2.   We both realize that if we can harness gravitational energy, we can harness magnetic or electromagnetic energy in a similar way.

The points that are different:
1.   I believe the unbalanced wheel is superior to the pendulum.
2.   I believe that resonance of the Milkovic 2SO relying on the pendulum matching the seesaw is limiting.  The amount of energy that can be lead-out is limited.
3.   The amount of energy that can be lead-out via rotation and jumping can be much higher.

One other point from a religious group:
Is the World ready for the “free energy” technology?  Will the hatred, greed etc. that is prevalent now use the technology for evil purpose?  Should we wait for a morally prepared society before releasing such technology?  (Is that what WITTS is saying?)


Quote
One other point from a religious group:
Is the World ready for the “free energy” technology?  Will the hatred, greed etc. that is prevalent now use the technology for evil purpose?  Should we wait for a morally prepared society before releasing such technology?  (Is that what WITTS is saying?)
[/b]

Of course a person who lives by hatred and greed and other antisocial sins will try to use any successful tool, such as a OU device, to overpower others! How naive are you?

Should an inventor wait rather than trying now to help the human society? Are you serious? Wait until the average human is so nice that everyone is helpful and not harmful to any fellow human....Duuh, there is enough wealth of energy, food, and other necessities right now that every human could live comfortably if EVERY HUMAN WAS NICE AND UNIVERSALLY HELPFUL. You would verbatim have to wait until Hell freezes over if you wait until every human just somehow turns out to be a really nice guy.

Creating a widespread comfortable level of prosperity by making energy, ie, electric power, free or at least really cheap, to every human will CREATE the non-competitive conditions requisite for every human to relax, and give no more effort to DEFEATING fellow humans.

There is an unreal quality to your expressed naivete. I hope you are not some kind of a troll baiting us to ferret out those of us who would proactively use OU to aggressively help the human race.


Regards
CANGAS 116 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 31, 2014, 12:58:20 PM



Of course a person who lives by hatred and greed and other antisocial sins will try to use any successful tool, such as a OU device, to overpower others! How naive are you?

Should an inventor wait rather than trying now to help the human society? Are you serious? Wait until the average human is so nice that everyone is helpful and not harmful to any fellow human....Duuh, there is enough wealth of energy, food, and other necessities right now that every human could live comfortably if EVERY HUMAN WAS NICE AND UNIVERSALLY HELPFUL. You would verbatim have to wait until Hell freezes over if you wait until every human just somehow turns out to be a really nice guy.

Creating a widespread comfortable level of prosperity by making energy, ie, electric power, free or at least really cheap, to every human will CREATE the non-competitive conditions requisite for every human to relax, and give no more effort to DEFEATING fellow humans.

There is an unreal quality to your expressed naivete. I hope you are not some kind of a troll baiting us to ferret out those of us who would proactively use OU to aggressively help the human race.


Regards
CANGAS 116

Had new year eve dinner with a friend.  We discussed the same point.  His view is to devote half the effort on technology and half on human morality.  The posts will be mixed.

I am trying it out on this post.  Scientifically,
1. It appears that the "lead-ou,t energy" of the Milkovic 2SO or Chan Wheel is independent of INPUT.  The experimental evidence is that if the screws of the Chan Wheel were loose, we would still see the hammer moving up and down.  But the Unbalanced Weight W2 will loose so much potential energy that the device will definitely be under Unity.  Once the screws were tightened, the measurements indicate Overunity.  Additional tuning did improve the result.
2.  The suggestion is to compare piercing a hole in a water tank.  The energy used to piercing is totally independent of the energy obtained from the water coming out of the tank.  Is this suggestion valid???

Morally,
1. We shall pass this knowledge to the under-privileged.  Building a Chan Wheel is easy.  Give the full knowledge via their local universities or governments.
2. Help them to think along the lines of "lead-out Energy".  Emphasize that the intention is to benefit all humanity.  Encourage them to do their own thinking.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on December 31, 2014, 10:11:40 PM
Scientific point:

If a weighted spring is pulled, the oscillation or vibration motion will be shown.  With additional pulse, the amplitude will increase.  If there were no loss of energy, the oscillation will last forever.  When we add the pulse, we can say that work is done against gravity and the energy is stored in the oscillating spring.

Another way of saying is that - the pulse brings gravitational energy into the system.

If the Weight were an rotating Unbalanced Wheel at the right matching frequency, the action will simulate pulsing.  Will the rotational speed of the Unbalanced Wheel decrease to match the gain of energy in the system?  Is it possible that some gravitational energy is "brought-in" due to the "jumping" action of the Unbalanced Wheel? 

Morality point:

Should the new generation think outside the box?  Should they find the answer themselves?  Should they build their own worth?  Will a better world result?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 01, 2015, 03:02:12 AM
The horizontally pulled pendulum calculation is repeated here.  This calculation was in the patent database and also presented at Tsinghua University.  It convinced the participants that the 225 HP Pulse Motor was no hoax.  If lead-out energy were theoretically possible, the 225 HP Pulse Motor could lead out the magnetic or electromagnetic energy without fossil fuel.

The Physics and Mathematics are correct.  The pendulum pushing part of Milkovic 2SO is already a lead-out energy device. 

Morality point:

Do your own mathematics and thinking.  You can use the attached spread sheet and use different values for pendulum bob and horizontal forces.  Check the mathematics thoroughly.  Do not believe in "authorities".  (Do not totally trust the political leaders.  They usually have hidden agendas.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 01, 2015, 10:21:50 AM
Complex "perpetual Motion" toy systems.

Pulsed simple pendulum can lead-out gravitational energy.  How about double pendulum systems?

How about the whole set of "perpetual motion toys"?

Morality point:

Some observed systems are too complex to analyze mathematically.  Should we accept the results?  Human emotions are often complex.  Can we steer them to do good?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 02, 2015, 12:09:28 AM
Like this? :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 02, 2015, 12:52:04 AM
Like this? :)

I like it. This may be the principle used in perpetual motion toys.

Morality point:

Think outside the box.  Simple things may change the world.  Apple falling on Newton's head!  What would trigger you?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 02, 2015, 01:04:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E08MugR5qTM

The video shows the swinging stick as shown in Iron Man 2.

It is swinging pendulums driven by batteries and magnets.  The batteries can last more than 2 years with the sticks in constant motion.

Is lead-out energy involved?

Morality Point:

If lead-out theory is correct, what are the implications???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 03, 2015, 01:53:28 AM
The experimental observations on the Milkovic 2SO or the Chan Wheel.

1. If the construction is shaky, much energy is lost.  The amplitude will decrease significantly. 
2. If the construction is firm, the amplitude decrease is small.

If the amplitude decrease is small, there is strong ground to argue that gravitational energy has been lead-out or brought-in.

One further observation is that the Weight W1 is lifted higher on the later swings.  See reply 2153 for an additional proof.  (The mathematics are not the same as the person did not use centrifugal force as the explanation).  If gravitational energy were brought-in, the energy available to lift W1 will be more even if resonance was not achieved...

Morality point:

1.  If we forget about the pendulum and use a 2 pound weight to do work.  The 2 pounds added to 99 pounds will be 101 pounds and can raise the 100 weight W1.  The distance moved by the 2 pound extra weight is exactly the same as the height raised by the 100 weight.
2. If we are not careful, we may say that the Input is 2 pounds x height and the Output is 100 p3.ounds x the same height.  The COP would then be 50!

3.  It is true that the additional 2 pound weight can raise the 100 weight to the same distance.  It is also true that after removal of the 2 pound weight, the lever will fall back to its original position.

What is the moral of this story???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 03, 2015, 04:45:10 PM
On the slide6 drawing - what is RHS?

I made such a pendulum and got inconsistant results. I thought he said
in one direction it lifts W1 but not in the other direction.

I always thought that the leverage increases when the pendulum moves
away from the fulcrum and decreases when the pendulum moves toward
the fulcrum and thus W1 goes up and down.

What have others experienced in your tests?

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 03, 2015, 05:04:43 PM
On the slide6 drawing - what is RHS?

Right hand side.

I think Lawrence means that the apparent weight of the RHS bob is increased by the centripetal/centrifugal force which is a function of the tension in the string, the speed of the bob.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 03, 2015, 05:07:40 PM
RHS = Right Hand Side
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 03, 2015, 11:12:23 PM
I did some more testing and indeed the "yankdown/centrifigal" force that lifts the W1
 is greater when going clockwise from right to left than anti clockwise from left to right.
I used a small string to pull the pendulum right or left and then dropped the string letting
it fall and then I had a small coffee stir stick placed so the "seesaw" arm would tap it
and so I knew how far it dropped and at a given position it got tapped when falling from the
right but no where near being tapped when falling from the left.

good point.....
I really like this kind of simple Faraday stuff.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 04, 2015, 12:56:48 AM
Let us look at reply 2447 again.  When the pendulum swings, the centrifugal force will cause the force pulling the spring to vary.  The weight in the middle will oscillate.  This is oscillation in the vertical direction.
(What happens at resonance?  Two frequencies match?)

If a pulled pendulum can lead-out gravitational energy, what about a pulled spring?

If a pulled spring can lead-out gravitational energy, what about the swinging lever?

In all three cases, we need to consider the potential and kinetic energy exchanges.

If oscillation in either vertical or horizontal direction can lead-out gravitational energy, how about magnetic energy?

In particular, must the energy in lifting the Weight W1 in the Milkovic 2SO be transferred from the swinging pendulum?  Will any Laws in Physics be violated if some or all of that energy comes from gravity?

Morality point:

Things may appear simple on the surface.  But dig deeper.  Apple falling from a tree is simple...
Thanks for all the helpful comments and experiments.  We are all learning...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 04, 2015, 01:17:27 AM
On the slide6 drawing - what is RHS?

I made such a pendulum and got inconsistant results. I thought he said
in one direction it lifts W1 but not in the other direction.

*** You probably had a shaky setup similar to my first attempt on the Chan Wheel.

I always thought that the leverage increases when the pendulum moves
away from the fulcrum and decreases when the pendulum moves toward
the fulcrum and thus W1 goes up and down.

*** No.  Examine more carefully.  Look at the RHead100 video 6 again.  The Weight is lifted when the bob swings with maximum velocity at the lowest position.

What have others experienced in your tests?

*** Even if the Chan Wheel is not shaky, the maximum height of W1 reached may be at the second, third, forth, fifth or even sixth swing.  One possible explanation is that some gravitational energy is brought-in...

Norman

Morality point:

Believe experiments and repeat them.  If results are inconsistent, find out why...
Consider all possible explanations...
Do not blindly believe in "authorities"...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 04, 2015, 04:01:20 AM
Let us look at reply 2447 again.  When the pendulum swings, the centrifugal force will cause the force pulling the spring to vary.  The weight in the middle will oscillate.  This is oscillation in the vertical direction.
(What happens at resonance?  Two frequencies match?)

If a pulled pendulum can lead-out gravitational energy, what about a pulled spring?

If a pulled spring can lead-out gravitational energy, what about the swinging lever?

In all three cases, we need to consider the potential and kinetic energy exchanges.

If oscillation in either vertical or horizontal direction can lead-out gravitational energy, how about magnetic energy?

In particular, must the energy in lifting the Weight W1 in the Milkovic 2SO be transferred from the swinging pendulum?  Will any Laws in Physics be violated if some or all of that energy comes from gravity?

Morality point:

Things may appear simple on the surface.  But dig deeper.  Apple falling from a tree is simple...
Thanks for all the helpful comments and experiments.  We are all learning...

The importance of resonance with regard to oscillation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZNnwQ8HJHU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Bat1Robin2 on January 04, 2015, 06:32:40 AM
This pendulum stuff is obvious to me not overunity. if you lift a weight then allow it to drop back down the energy is returning to the system no output is produced so the small push is only needed to overcome frictions. small input no output.. it is no different from 2 capacitors charging each other with a small burst of energy to keep it swinging. not overunity no output and should be common sense to everyone. they will have an very big issue attempting to loop that device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 04, 2015, 08:13:10 PM
This pendulum stuff is obvious to me not overunity. if you lift a weight then allow it to drop back down the energy is returning to the system no output is produced so the small push is only needed to overcome frictions. small input no output.. it is no different from 2 capacitors charging each other with a small burst of energy to keep it swinging. not overunity no output and should be common sense to everyone. they will have an very big issue attempting to loop that device.

Dear Bat1Robin2,

We are not talking about the simple pendulum swinging alone here. We are talking about:
1. The pulsed pendulum leading-out gravitational energy.
2. The Milkovic 2SO leading-out additional gravitational energy in the weight lifting.
3. The need for resonance in combining 1 and 2.
4. Extending the concept to other mechanical two stage oscillation systems.
5. Extending the above to magnetic and electromagnetic systems.
6. Extending the concept of extracting energy from electron cloud or electron motion to beyond chemical reactions. 
7. There is no need to burn fossil fuels to pollute the environment.
8. There is no need to use the nuclear energy of the atom.  The energy from the electrons is sufficient for all energy needs.

Morality point:
The 225 HP Pulse Motor is no hoax. The WITTS generator is no hoax.  Will the Chinese and USA Military release the technology to benefit the World???  Should the religious WITTS disclose their technology???
Many other "free energy" researchers may also be using "lead-out energy" without stating it...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2015, 12:57:18 AM
Dear Bat1Robin2,

We are not talking about the simple pendulum swinging alone here. We are talking about:
1. The pulsed pendulum leading-out gravitational energy.
2. The Milkovic 2SO leading-out additional gravitational energy in the weight lifting.
3. The need for resonance in combining 1 and 2.
4. Extending the concept to other mechanical two stage oscillation systems.
5. Extending the above to magnetic and electromagnetic systems.
6. Extending the concept of extracting energy from electron cloud or electron motion to beyond chemical reactions. 
7. There is no need to burn fossil fuels to pollute the environment.
8. There is no need to use the nuclear energy of the atom.  The energy from the electrons is sufficient for all energy needs.

Morality point:
The 225 HP Pulse Motor is no hoax. The WITTS generator is no hoax.  Will the Chinese and USA Military release the technology to benefit the World???  Should the religious WITTS disclose their technology???
Many other "free energy" researchers may also be using "lead-out energy" without stating it...

The WITTS generator IS a hoax.  That is why they still pay an electric bill and have an electric meter on their property.

Lead out=0, or even -20.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on January 05, 2015, 03:02:56 AM
Dear Bat1Robin2,

We are not talking about the simple pendulum swinging alone here. We are talking about:
1. The pulsed pendulum leading-out gravitational energy.
2. The Milkovic 2SO leading-out additional gravitational energy in the weight lifting.
3. The need for resonance in combining 1 and 2.
4. Extending the concept to other mechanical two stage oscillation systems.
5. Extending the above to magnetic and electromagnetic systems.
6. Extending the concept of extracting energy from electron cloud or electron motion to beyond chemical reactions. 
7. There is no need to burn fossil fuels to pollute the environment.
8. There is no need to use the nuclear energy of the atom.  The energy from the electrons is sufficient for all energy needs.

Morality point:
The 225 HP Pulse Motor is no hoax. The WITTS generator is no hoax.  Will the Chinese and USA Military release the technology to benefit the World???  Should the religious WITTS disclose their technology???
Many other "free energy" researchers may also be using "lead-out energy" without stating it...
Morality point:  You have for years claimed many different over unity schemes work.  None have ever worked as you have claimed.  WITTS has never shown that any of their devices work as they claim.  Whatever those "free energy" researchers may be doing, none have ever shown evidence of the excess energy they seek and some claim to have obtained.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 05, 2015, 02:30:20 PM

The WITTS generator IS a hoax.  That is why they still pay an electric bill and have an electric meter on their property.

Lead out=0, or even -20.

Bill


Bill
I would respect your comment more if there were supporting documentation.
Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on January 05, 2015, 06:35:53 PM
Quote from: Pirate
The WITTS generator IS a hoax.  That is why they still pay an electric bill and have an electric meter on their property.

Lead out=0, or even -20.

Bill


Bill
I would respect your comment more if there were supporting documentation.
Norman

Every failed QEG build is supporting documentation. What is actually required is "supporting documentation" that the WITTS device works as they claim, and there is none. The famous "demonstration" on video from years ago is not adequate support for the claims of WITTS.

What is the moral position of a "religious" sect that withholds such a device from the public, when each and every day, many many innocent _children_ are dying from malnutrition and lack of clean water, which could be prevented by having such devices in widespread use?

There is one thing, and one thing only, preventing adequate "supporting documentation" for the WITTS claim: the attitude and refusal to cooperate from Timothy Thrapp. The "supporting documentation" on the Hoax/Fraud side of the argument comes from all the hundreds, or perhaps even thousands, of failures to replicate Thrapp's many claims of overunity devices, miracle cures and etc. Many of these failures aren't even reported anywhere because the researchers don't see the need to report null results. But no "successful" replication has ever been reported... because you cannot replicate a hoax, except by performing the same kind of trickery that the original hoaxer used.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on January 05, 2015, 06:38:36 PM
Morality point:  You have for years claimed many different over unity schemes work.  None have ever worked as you have claimed.  WITTS has never shown that any of their devices work as they claim.  Whatever those "free energy" researchers may be doing, none have ever shown evidence of the excess energy they seek and some claim to have obtained.

Another morality point: Lawrence Tseung has claimed that "money is no object" and that he and his supporters could "easily donate 100,000 dollars to WITTS" to purchase a "working" QEG device. Yet he has not stepped up to the plate to do it. Instead he prefers to make his claims as listed in the post which MarkE quotes.

Money is no object, he can easily donate 100 thousand dollars to WITTS. So why has he not done so?

I know why, and so do you.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on January 05, 2015, 08:26:15 PM
Another morality point: Lawrence Tseung has claimed that "money is no object" and that he and his supporters could "easily donate 100,000 dollars to WITTS" to purchase a "working" QEG device. Yet he has not stepped up to the plate to do it. Instead he prefers to make his claims as listed in the post which MarkE quotes.

Money is no object, he can easily donate 100 thousand dollars to WITTS. So why has he not done so?

I know why, and so do you.
I think that by and large everyone knows:  especially Lawrence.  Why he persists telling his tall tales of non-existent "lead out" energy that he has never been able to evidence I do not know.  Where he gets the idea that it is moral to sell lies I do not know.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 06, 2015, 01:13:44 AM
My understanding of the Milkovic 2SO as of Jan 6, 2015

1.   In the first stage, it is a pulsed pendulum.  The mathematics shows that for small angles, 2 parts of horizontal energy leads-out 1 part of vertical gravitational energy. 
2.   In the second stage, when the Weight W1 is lifted, the amplitude of the swinging pendulum does not decrease.  The energy used to lift the Weight comes from gravity.
3.   The two above mechanisms bring-in gravitational energy.  If we make the assumption that the finger push energy is the INPUT, we have not considered the extra INPUT of lead-out energy.  This extra INPUT is the “free energy”.
4.   The lifting of the heavy weight has been considered by many (including myself at one time) as the OUTPUT.  This is incorrect.  In order to repeat the process, the Weight W1 need to raise the pendulum bob back to the original position.  This must be taken into consideration.
5.   In order to get more energy, the pendulum weight has to be higher and the pendulum length needs to be longer.  This make the scaling up very expensive and inefficient.
6.   When the pendulum is replaced by the Unbalanced Wheel (e.g. Chan Wheel), the rotational speed can be increased for a more efficient operation. However, this need to match the oscillation frequency of the lever.  Experimentally, the Chan Wheel can be tuned with different weights and lever arm lengths to get better results.
7.   The Milkovic 2SO and Chan Wheels are interesting as academic research projects as they are overunity and do lead-out gravitational energy.
8.   The more practical devices should lead-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor and other Pulse Motors are examples.

For those who want to have an overunity device to research, build the Chan Wheel. The trolls do not have a Milkovic 2SO or Chan Wheel and claim that there are no OU devices, just ignore them…

Morality Point:

When you have a working OU device, continue your research…  If you do not want to get rude comments, just do not post.  If you are old like me and do not want to carry the limited knowledge to the grave, post.  Argue on the scientific points.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 06, 2015, 02:36:18 AM
Veljko Milkovic's Pendulum Pump replica by Milos Regeljac from Despotovo, Serbia

This technical testing was successful in proving that there has been water pressure needed for the irrigation in agriculture.
Designed pump with a pendulum draws water from a well with a depth of 6 meters and throws water at a height of over 6 meters
what makes the height difference of more than 12 meters.

In this way the objective that is being sought in irrigation has been achieved.
Further work on system automation is currently being done.

Location: Despotovo, Serbia
Date: December 2014   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_1_Yn4Eji8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_1_Yn4Eji8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 06, 2015, 03:05:42 AM
One comment on why the QEGs do not work as well as the WITTS generator.

It is the conditioning of the core.  If you try to produce a permanent magnet with DC current, you can use different amps.  If you use small amps, you still have a permanent magnet.   If you use larger amps, the result is likely to be very different.

The published QEG may not have conditioned the core to the same extend as WITTS...

There will still be resonance.  (There will be magnetic properties with low amps.)

Morality Point:

Simple replication of a non-optimal device will also produce a non-optimal device.  Try to come up with a possible hypothesis...  Lead-out theory will help QEG research also...  One Chan Wheel will lead-out different amount of energy from another Chan Wheel of same construction if tuned differently...

Should FixtheWorld people disclose what they know and hope others will build on that?  Their relationship with WITTS may not be "on the best" of terms.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on January 06, 2015, 05:02:07 AM
One comment on why the QEGs do not work as well as the WITTS generator.

It is the conditioning of the core.  If you try to produce a permanent magnet with DC current, you can use different amps.  If you use small amps, you still have a permanent magnet.   If you use larger amps, the result is likely to be very different.

The published QEG may not have conditioned the core to the same extend as WITTS...

There will still be resonance.  (There will be magnetic properties with low amps.)

Morality Point:

Simple replication of a non-optimal device will also produce a non-optimal device.  Try to come up with a possible hypothesis...  Lead-out theory will help QEG research also...  One Chan Wheel will lead-out different amount of energy from another Chan Wheel of same construction if tuned differently...

Should FixtheWorld people disclose what they know and hope others will build on that?  Their relationship with WITTS may not be "on the best" of terms.
No matter what one does, the QEG is just a very inefficient machine. 

Morality Point:  Supporting those who scam others out of money while willfully ignoring facts is really little better than what the scammers do.  Why do you support blatant scams Lawrence?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 06, 2015, 02:57:22 PM

merg  what does this water pump prove?
 it works but bottom line is what is the input and what is the
output and how does that compare to ordinary water  pumping?
If it takes less work then viola - you have something worth the effort.

Itseung888
The pendulum below starts at 2 oclock and drops past 10 oclock and on
up to noon. How does it fit into your leadout concept?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74)

 You can visually see the input and the output that is
greater than the input - no false measurement possibilities.
You can tell that something in the magnets uniuque is happening here
because the pendulum goes up quickly and then drops back
down slowly and stops.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on January 06, 2015, 04:13:05 PM
Hmm interresting ,Noones, see my new video.

Youll like.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on January 06, 2015, 05:54:14 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74)

 You can visually see the input and the output that is
greater than the input - no false measurement possibilities.


Norman


you are a very very very funny guy !!

PERPETUAL MOBILE is a running device ...  perpetualy .... ( without stopppppping !!! )


PS :
 if you begin at 12 and

   - your device run 1/2H down
and
   - your device run more than 1/2H up

in this case your device is really a PM

LOL i can not stop laughting
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 06, 2015, 06:26:49 PM
Tagor
I said nothing about perpetual mobile. That is your false assumption. But what you have seen
is OU - more out than in.

I laughing at you until you can show me your pendulum that goes higher than its dropped point.

For those who still have a functional brain this device is so simple it is visually clear that it
is OU. To those who are stuck in the groove you will make up all kinds of hog wash.
Its because of folks like you that I don't cast my better pearls before swine. I save them for
my closest friends. Keyboarding is so easy but benchwork is where its really accomplished.
I have boxes and boxes of benchwork with maybe two successes.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 06, 2015, 06:37:08 PM

Itseung888
The pendulum below starts at 2 oclock and drops past 10 oclock and on
up to noon. How does it fit into your leadout concept?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74)

 You can visually see the input and the output that is
greater than the input -
...only if you stop your analysis at the top. The event finishes at the bottom. Consdierable loss of potential energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 06, 2015, 08:16:27 PM


Itseung888
The pendulum below starts at 2 oclock and drops past 10 oclock and on
up to noon. How does it fit into your leadout concept?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74)

 You can visually see the input and the output that is
greater than the input - no false measurement possibilities.
You can tell that something in the magnets uniuque is happening here
because the pendulum goes up quickly and then drops back
down slowly and stops.

Norman

Dear Norman,

Interesting video.  Once you put magnets in vertical or horizontal pendulums, you will lead-out or bring-in magnetic energy.  The Minato effect is an example.  Continue your good work.  Peter Chan is also doing something similar with the horizontal magnetic pendulum. 

Attached is the presentation to be done on Jan 11, 2015.  I hope to pass much of the knowledge and responsibility to the younger generation.

Morality Point:

When you share, we all learn.  Water turns to wine?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on January 07, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
Tagor
I said nothing about perpetual mobile. That is your false assumption. But what you have seen
is OU - more out than in.

I laughing at you until you can show me your pendulum that goes higher than its dropped point.

For those who still have a functional brain this device is so simple it is visually clear that it
is OU. To those who are stuck in the groove you will make up all kinds of hog wash.
Its because of folks like you that I don't cast my better pearls before swine. I save them for
my closest friends. Keyboarding is so easy but benchwork is where its really accomplished.
I have boxes and boxes of benchwork with maybe two successes.

Norman

If your device is really OU , explain me why it is not a PM ?


if your device really goes UP more than DOWN , explain me why your device can not
  do one completed turn ... and run and turn and working like a PM ?


if your device is only unity , why you can not use a 2SO to get 12 UNITY ...
   and your device explode in 12 seconde ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 07, 2015, 09:45:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLkMaS3Xj0I

The attempt to have lead-out magnetic energy done 7 years ago.

We shall repeat now with much more knowledge...

You can youtube and search on "minato wheel" for other related videos.

Morality Point:

Going back 7 years is no shame...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 07, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Lawrence, I like your minato work but what is the status of that work after
7 years?
Norman

see this one too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvlDEqf2pCc
Uploaded on Jul 3, 2007
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 07, 2015, 09:35:52 PM
Lawrence, I like your minato work but what is the status of that work after
7 years?
Norman

see this one too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvlDEqf2pCc
Uploaded on Jul 3, 2007

That experiment was stopped 7 years ago.  The effort shifted to leading out magnetic and electromagnetic energy via Pulse Wheels - the Tong Wheel.

The scientific reasoning is:
The gravitational energy that can be lead-out in one pulse is equal to
mgL(cos(a2)-cos(a1))
where m is mass of pendulum
g is gravitational acceleration
L is length of pendulum string
a1 is angle before the pull
a2 is angle after the pull

For the pendulum, if we want to bring-in more gravitational energy, we have to increase m, L or the angles since we cannot change g.

For magnetic pendulum, we can effectively change g.  However, pure permanent magnets will always attract or repel.  That will create sticky spots.  There will be a limit on the speed of rotation.  (Peter Chan will experiment with magnetic shielding as the new tool.)

Once we go to electromagnets, we essentially have the pulse wheel.  That should allow for much higher rotation and thus bring-in much more electromagnetic energy per unit time.  (more power).

The problem with Pulse Wheels is the "resonance".  We still have not found the best way to match the pulsing frequency to the rotational frequency of the Unbalanced Wheel. (and/or the natural frequency of the setup?)  The teams that claimed to have found resonances kept them as commercial secrets.  The Ting Wheel is an example.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor is still a top secret with both the Chinese and USA Governments.

Morality Point:

One may have partial access to top secret.  Should one upset the authorities for the Human good? 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 08, 2015, 03:17:25 PM
We still have not found the best way to match the pulsing frequency to the rotational frequency of the Unbalanced Wheel.

One may have partial access to top secret.  Should one upset the authorities for the Human good?

Parametric oscillation might be a way to go.

All we need is the principle of operation. It is probably in the public domain somewhere already.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 08, 2015, 11:00:32 PM
Parametric oscillation might be a way to go.

All we need is the principle of operation. It is probably in the public domain somewhere already.

@Paul-R

The following is

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A parametric oscillator is a harmonic oscillator whose parameters oscillate in time. For example, a well known parametric oscillator is a child pumping a swing by periodically standing and squatting to increase the size of the swing's oscillations.[1][2][3] The varying of the parameters drives the system. Examples of parameters that may be varied are its resonance frequency \omega and damping \beta.

Parametric oscillators are used in many applications. The classical varactor parametric oscillator will oscillate when the diode's capacitance is varied periodically. The circuit that varies the diode's capacitance is called the "pump" or "driver". In microwave electronics, waveguide/YAG based parametric oscillators operate in the same fashion. The designer varies a parameter periodically in order to induce oscillations.

When operated at pump levels below oscillation, the parametric oscillator can amplify a signal, becoming a parametric amplifier. Varactor parametric amplifiers have been developed as low-noise amplifiers, especially in the radio and microwave frequency range. Thermal noise is minimal, since a reactance (not a resistance) is varied. They have been used in radio telescopes and spacecraft communication antennas. Another important example is the Optical parametric oscillator, which converts an input laser wave into two output waves of lower frequency (\omega_s, \omega_i).

Parametric resonance occurs in a mechanical system when a system is parametrically excited and oscillates at one of its resonant frequencies. Parametric excitation differs from forcing since the action appears as a time varying modification on a system parameter. This effect is different from regular resonance because it exhibits the instability phenomenon.

***Paul-R may be pointing us to a promising direction.
1. Textbook Physics did not teach us lead-out energy.
2. So far, I have not learnt from public information that parametric oscillation leads-out energy.  Other energy source excites or amplifies the oscillation.
3. Does classical physics allow the bringing-in of outside energy in a parametric oscillator?

Morality Point:
We are likely to encounter knowledge that are not familiar in research.  Learn but do not blindly believe the authorities. 


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 08, 2015, 11:45:58 PM

A parametric oscillator is a harmonic oscillator whose parameters oscillate in time. For example, a well known parametric oscillator is a child pumping a swing by periodically standing and squatting to increase the size of the swing's oscillations.[1][2][3]

Morality Point:
We are likely to encounter knowledge that are not familiar in research.  Learn but do not blindly believe the authorities.

If the child pumping a swing is a parametric oscillator, a swinging pendulum at the end of a weighted spring should also be a parametric oscillator (reply 2447).  Will the swing amplitude decrease when the spring oscillates up and down?

In reply 2449, we have the simplified Milkovic 2SO, will the pendulum amplitude decrease when the lever oscillates up and down?

With an unbalanced wheel, the "effective weight" goes up and down.  We should time it so that the falling weight is more than the rising weight.  This means we use less energy to get the weight back to the original height.  That is the secret...

How to do it?  Different setup and different inventors will have different solutions.  Will their inventions "use the secret"???

For magnetic case, the "effective weight" can be much higher.

For the electromagnetic case, the "effective weight difference" can be even higher.  Thus the practical device should be electromagnets or the Pulse Wheel.

The early Tong wheel was not optimal...  It already showed signs of lead-out energy...  The Input and Output were in watts and critics could say that the results were due to measurement errors.  Hopefully, all pulse wheel developers can learn from this...

Motionless flux change systems are possible.  The FLEET is an attempt in that direction.  The Steven Mark TPU may not be a hoax.

Morality Point:

The 225 HP Pulse Motor has good control of the electromagnets...  That is the top secret of the Chinese and USA Military.  Some trolls might have been paid to discourage the inventors.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 10, 2015, 04:23:49 PM
The perpetual motion toys arrived.  They moved for about 1 minute.  However, the construction was steel/iron that can be attracted by magnets.  The next experiment will involve placing magnets in appropriate positions to see if the motion can be prolonged.

Finally, we can use the shelved permanent magnets.

http://youtu.be/YwIY-g6J7qw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 10, 2015, 11:31:30 PM
After watching the perpetual motion toys, it dawned on us that the following experiment is worth doing.

One diagram is worth a thousand words...

The initial position of the pendulum on the LHS should allow the swing to "reach" the position of the stationary magnet.  Will the swing back position be higher???

Morality Point:

One learns more while experimenting or watching results from others...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 11, 2015, 03:11:07 AM
Two things about magnets after years of experiments.
1. there is no repel/push force without first a squeeze so you don't get
  more out than in.

2. attraction is simpler but then there is the sticky spot which likewise
 catches you with a large force to unstick the magnet.

I'm way past the sticky spot now at a new barrier.
It takes more than 200% OU to have self reciprocation
iej. 1. a unit of work moves a magnet into attraction.
which makes 2 units of work. - that's easy.  But then you have to move
the magnet back and that may also take one unit of work
so there is one left. And that unit of work needs to reset the
setup that did 1. above.  so you are down to 0 usable work now.

I think I can get 300% OU soon but it takes a lot of performance tricks.

Norman


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 11, 2015, 02:32:21 PM
Is the demo still on for today per this message?



Dear Sir/Madam,

We shall do a Presentation and Demonstration of the Lead-out Energy Theory on
 Jan 11, 2015.  The details are as follows:

Place:
Office of  Mr. Peter Chan
Unit C, 15/F, Block 1
Tai Ping Ind. Center
57 Ting Kok Road
Tai Po, N.T.
Hong Kong

Time:  Jan 11, 2015 (Sunday) 2pm onwards







If so how did it go?

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 12, 2015, 07:01:06 AM
Is the demo still on for today per this message?

Dear Sir/Madam,

We shall do a Presentation and Demonstration of the Lead-out Energy Theory on
 Jan 11, 2015.  The details are as follows:

Place:
Office of  Mr. Peter Chan
Unit C, 15/F, Block 1
Tai Ping Ind. Center
57 Ting Kok Road
Tai Po, N.T.
Hong Kong

Time:  Jan 11, 2015 (Sunday) 2pm onwards


If so how did it go?

Norman

It went well.  The only experiment we could not perform was the sound resonance.  The connection wire broke.  We shall do that next month.

The more interesting points include:
1.  The mathematics of the horizontally pulled pendulum.  There were comments that the integral should be used.  But the concept is still solid.
2.  Every one understood the Milkovic 2SO much better.  China used a similar technique in the rapid lift of the Three Gorges Dam.  Pulley systems with heavy counter weights were used to reduce energy needed.
3.  The balanced and unbalanced Chan wheel were compared.  The Balanced Chan Wheel will not lift the Weight (not leading-out gravitational energy.)
4.  The WITTS generator was discussed in detail.
5.  The "perpetual motion" magnet pendulum will be the "star presentation" next month.

The Meeting started at 2pm and lasted to 8pm with a 2 hour dinner.

Morality Point:

Having fun makes serious scientific meetings enjoyable.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 12, 2015, 12:55:58 PM
I propose the following test to nail this device down solidly. Drive the device with a weight on a string turning an axle that drops down a distance. And simultaneously the output of the device should be likewise an axle with a string pulling another weight up. Measure the two distances
and you have complete story.

My gravity devices failed this test so you need not know anything about them.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 12, 2015, 05:40:53 PM

My gravity devices failed this test so you need not know anything about them.

Norman

Every two stage device I have built has also failed this test. The only way this could possibly be successful would be to provide some type of feedback control to maintain resonance under load.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on January 12, 2015, 06:31:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/user/Skyrimninjamod/videos

Noones I need help to brg this to reality.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 12, 2015, 11:44:06 PM
Every two stage device I have built has also failed this test. The only way this could possibly be successful would be to provide some type of feedback control to maintain resonance under load.

Have you tried the experiment suggested in 2483 yet?  Make sure you do not have other iron objects close by. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 13, 2015, 04:44:18 AM
https://www.youtube.com/user/Skyrimninjamod/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/Skyrimninjamod/videos)

Noones I need help to brg this to reality.

Can you email the file? PM me if you need my email.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 13, 2015, 06:27:47 PM
Have you tried the experiment suggested in 2483 yet?  Make sure you do not have other iron objects close by.

Experimental result:

The stationary magnet caused the magnetic pendulum to tilt away from vertical.  Even if the number of magnets changed at either the stationary or moving magnet, we cannot produce the trampoline effect.  The best configuration is when both magnetics have only one small magnet.

http://youtu.be/NkBbjK7ED4A

Morality Point:

Some simple experiments are worth doing even if we expect the result to be negative.  We can learn even from unsuccessful experiments...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 14, 2015, 12:50:04 AM
Conversation with Peter Chan:

Peter: "What is the next step?"

Tseung: "We can simulate the Minator Wheel again.  This time, we use Unbalanced Wheels.  If you look back at the simulation video 7 years ago, we used 8 magnets in a balanced fashion."

Peter: "I want to do something more challenging that may lead to the 5KW product."

Tseung: "You can go for the Pulse Wheel or the FLEET."

Peter: "My background is mechanical.  I shall go for the Pulse Wheel.  How should I start?"

Tseung" "Start with a single winding.  Attract and repel one single magnet on an unbalanced wheel.  Get some feel for the current, the number of turns, the angles to be used."

Peter: "What is the mistake you made with the Tong Wheel?"

Tseung: "We tried to simulate the 225 HP Pulse Motor.  We put on multiple magnets and got some promising results. We used the proximity switch because Tong was familiar with it.  We then just kept experimenting without the solid feel or knowledge."

Morality Point:

Getting some promising results without solid knowledge can be dangerous and frustrating at the end.  QEG is another example.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 14, 2015, 05:18:09 PM
There is another approach to the gravity machine by William Skinner.

http://overunity.com/14655/1939-gravity-power-multiply-power-by-1200/#.VLd1NOk5Bjo

Gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in. Unbalanced Wheel and Centrifugal Force were also effectively used.  This gives more confidence to the Bessler and Yuen Wheel researchers.

The logical path is to use the more powerful magnetic and electromagnetic energies.

Morality Point:

Have an open mind.  A simple Milkovic 2SO or Chan Wheel is a lead-out energy device.  It is easy to accept that the Skinner device is another example - no need to replicate it ourselves... 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 15, 2015, 10:40:41 PM
Met a potential investor at the café of a Hotel in Hong Kong.

Investor: "I own a power plant and I am familiar with the Tesla technologies.  I am a PhD in mechanical engineering.  Impress me."

Tseung discussed the Milkovic 2SO and the improved Chan Wheel. The focus was on the unbalanced wheel.  The Skinner device was also discussed.  The mathematics of the pulled pendulum was presented.

Investor: "You presented the lead-out or bring-in energy theory very well.  However, it will take more than theory to get my investment."

Tseung: "One important element in such devices is resonance.  I have not discovered the magic formula to achieve resonance yet. Some inventors claimed to have achieved that.  WITTS is an example."

Investor: "How about the Ting Wheel?  Are there solid scientific measurements confirming the claims?"

Tseung: "Once you signed the NDA, Dr. Ting may share the secrets with you."

Investor: "I am interested but it will take more than one presentation to convince me."

Morality Point:

A good theory may arouse the interest.  It will take a working prototype to attract investment.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 17, 2015, 10:34:13 PM
Take a look at Terrawatt Research. Their device has been tested by both UL and TUV which show peaks in lower harmonic reasonances:

http://www.terawatt.com/ecm1/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=187
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 18, 2015, 12:50:17 AM
Monthly Meeting on Feb 8, 2015 (Sunday) from 2 pm in the Office of Peter Chan

Open to all who are interested.  Email lawrencetseung@yahoo.com to confirm participation.

Place:
Office of  Mr. Peter Chan
Unit C, 15/F, Block 1
Tai Ping Ind. Center
57 Ting Kok Road
Tai Po, N.T.
Hong Kong

Agenda:
Available for experiments from 2pm:
Chan Wheel, Yuen Wheel, horizontal and vertical magnetic suspension, joule thief, “perpetual motion toys that move for 1 minute”, solar or battery operated toys and electromagnetic coils.

1.   Introduce the participants
2.   Summary on gravity devices: Milkovic 2SO, Chan Wheel, Skinner Device, Bessler and Yuen Wheel.
3.   Design of Pulse Wheels
  a.   What is the equivalent of the unbalanced wheel?
  b.   Leading out of magnetic and electromagnetic energy?
  c.   Resonance hunting and locking?
  d.   Determining the Input and Output energy and waveforms via oscilloscopes?
4.   Experience from the Tong Wheel
5.   Information and implications from the Chas Campbell set up.
6.   Open Discussions
7.   Dinner (optional at HK$100 per person)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 18, 2015, 03:30:23 PM
Very reasonably priced meal at £8.50. Lawrence. If you have such a meeting in London, I would be there, especially if you include the Ting wheel which I reckon has the best chance of success.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 18, 2015, 08:07:20 PM
Very reasonably priced meal at £8.50. Lawrence. If you have such a meeting in London, I would be there, especially if you include the Ting wheel which I reckon has the best chance of success.

You can start a group in London.  The presentation files can be found in:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg44411#msg44411 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg44411#msg44411)
reply 59.
 
We shall discuss the theory behind the Pulse Wheels first before going into the details of the Ting Wheel.
 
The theory is likely to cover:
1.  Gravitational energy can be brought-in via Milkovic 2SO, Chan Wheel and Skinner Device.
2.  Magnetic energy and electromagnetic energy can be brought-in similarly.
3.  The minimum current required to pulse a given unbalanced wheel mounted vertically.
4.  The control mechanism required to start and end the pulse.
5.  The resonance at no load
6.  The resonance and adjustment when load is present.
7.  The monitoring and measuring mechanisms - e.g. oscilloscope.
 
That will help to explain why many pulse wheels failed to match the 225 HP Pulse Motor performance...
 
Morality Point:
Trying to copy a pulse wheel without theoretical backing is like shooting in faint light.
The success of the Chan Wheel in pointing out the importance of the Unbalanced Wheel gives much inspiration and confidence.  Any serious research group should buy an old bicycle wheel and replicate the Chan Wheel...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 19, 2015, 09:02:46 AM
 Let us plan on the Pulse Wheel experiment.
 
The assumptions are:
1.  Use the bicycle wheel with one lead weight as the unbalanced wheel. (already available)
2.  Use one Coil and one Magnet to start.  Magnet is the available round type.
3.  The magnet is to be at same position as the lead weight.
4.  The diameter of the coil is same as that of the magnet.  The number of windings starts at 100 in increments of 50 turns.
5.  The DC power supply unit is used as the Input Source (available).  Start at 6 Volts and increments at 3 volts.
6. Use an Atten DSO to determine the Input Power with spreadsheet analysis.(available)
7. Start with no load.
8. Use optical sensor to turn DC Current ON.  Use another optical sensor to turn DC Current OFF.
 
The Tong wheel experience told us that one air coil and one magnet at 12V can keep the large wooden wheel turning.  We shall be more systematic this time.  We shall use iron core to get maximum magnetic forces.
 
The goal is to find the minimum Input Power to keep the unbalanced wheel rotating with no Load.  Learn as much as possible before the next step.
 
Morality Point:
The early Tong Wheel development was “rushed”.  Get the wheel spinning and simply put more coils and magnets.  Check for overunity.  The apparent success (Input and Output at a few watts) blinded us to doing more vigorous research.  The Tong Wheel was shown to investors and academics.  It was taken apart multiple times and finally the wooden structure broke.  One incident convinced us that the 225 HP Pulse Motor was not a hoax was – in one tuning experiment with the 12V battery connected, the voltmeter suddenly shot to its limits and the internal fuse was burnt.  A section of the Tong Wheel was charred.
 
We could not and did not determine the exact condition again.  It was assumed to have touched on some “resonance”.  The follow-on tunings were done with the 12 V battery disconnected.  (Tong got HK$130k to do another prototype.  We also got over HK$250K for the FLEET development.  The team fell apart with the HK$3 million promised funding.)
 
When money was tight, there were few disputes.  When money was looser, there were disagreements on the directions to take.  Ego overcame reason…
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 19, 2015, 09:16:19 PM
The improved Pulse Wheel - unbalance it with lead weight?
 
The Chan Wheel taught us that gravitational energy cannot be brought-in via a balanced wheel.  A pulsed Unbalanced Wheel mounted vertically can bring-in gravitational energy in every revolution similar to a pulsed pendulum.
 
A simple arrangement is shown.
 
The concept appears to have been confirmed by the Peru, Chas Campbell and Ting wheels in a similar fashion.  In particular, Dr. Ting got the axle twisted when he added a heavy unbalanced wheel on the same axle as his pulse wheel...
 
Morality Point:
Every one can look but none can see for decades???  Is it Divine Revelation?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 19, 2015, 11:40:58 PM
Looks familiar :). Here's the first machine I ever built 6 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cViZJ90xRxY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 20, 2015, 07:19:08 AM
Looks familiar :) . Here's the first machine I ever built 6 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cViZJ90xRxY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cViZJ90xRxY)

Dear noonespecial,
 
You have done much great work on the gravity wheel devices.  Your help will greatly add to the knowledge and the implementation.  Some questions:
 
1.  Have you determined that one or more of your devices produce more Output Energy than Input?  Or are there strong grounds to believe so?
 
2.  Have you ever considered "Lead-out" energy as an explanation?  Have you checked on the mathematics of the horizontally pulled pendulum?
 
3.  Have you tried to put an Unbalanced Wheel on the same axle of a "normal motor" and check the increase in torque?  If so, have you fed that to the Input of another more powerful "normal motor/generator"?
 
Thank you in advance.
 
Morality Point:
The energy multiplier device we discussed at Tsinghua University 8 years ago may be using "unbalanced cylinders" to bring-in gravitational/magnetic energy.  It was working in a factory and claimed to use one eighth the electricity.  Initially, the local electric company suspected them of "stealing electricity"...
 
If the Milkovic 2SO, Chan Wheel and Skinner devices can bring-in gravitational energy, other gravity devices may be able to bring-in gravitational energy also.  The Bessler Wheel may not be a hoax.  Are we getting closer to understanding the secret of the 225 HP Pulse Motor???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 20, 2015, 09:07:20 AM
just a thought
 
Would the addition of an Unbalanced Wheel make the QEG overunity?  Use a proper Unbalanced Wheel to bring-in gravitational energy at resonance...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on January 20, 2015, 09:13:45 AM
just a thought
 
Would the addition of an Unbalanced Wheel make the QEG overunity?  Use a proper Unbalanced Wheel to bring-in gravitational energy at resonance...
Fraudulant free energy device + rock and a wheel leads-out failure.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 20, 2015, 09:17:14 AM
The equivalent mechanism in pulsing to lead-out energy:
 
1. centrifugal force in unbalanced wheel causes "jumping"
2. oscillating spring or trampolin
3. attracting by coil and then repelling???
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: truesearch on January 20, 2015, 03:01:35 PM
Missing one step:


4. Profit!!  ;D


(Just laugh, it's meant to be funny)  8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 20, 2015, 08:48:05 PM
just a thought
 
Would the addition of an Unbalanced Wheel make the QEG overunity?  Use a proper Unbalanced Wheel to bring-in gravitational energy at resonance...

Just another more daring thought:
 
Would the addition of an Unbalanced Wheel make any electric motor overunity as it can bring-in gravitational energy?  Can this combination drive a more powerful motor or generator?
 
Is that the Peru unbalanced wheel? Is that the Chas Campbell device?  Is that the Ting Wheel?
 
If the Coil + magnet pulse unit can bring-in electromagnetc energy (more than the Input Energy of the Pulse), is it an overunity or lead-out energy entity?  Can it be added to any Motor to enhance performance?
 
Morality Point:
 
Thinking can outpace experiments...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 20, 2015, 08:54:58 PM
Missing one step:


4. Profit!!  ;D


(Just laugh, it's meant to be funny)  8)

We discovered a much better technique.  Be a politician in power and print money.  Give it a nice name such as Qxx.  Some "management" fees will go into your pocket and those of your supporters.  Many Nations are doing it... 8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 20, 2015, 11:41:03 PM

Dear noonespecial,
 
You have done much great work on the gravity wheel devices.  Your help will greatly add to the knowledge and the implementation.  Some questions:
 
1.  Have you determined that one or more of your devices produce more Output Energy than Input?  Or are there strong grounds to believe so?

None that have demonstrated so-called 'over-unity'. I have however determined that I can achieve 'over-efficiency'.
 
Quote
2.  Have you ever considered "Lead-out" energy as an explanation?  Have you checked on the mathematics of the horizontally pulled pendulum?

I admit that I haven't looked at the math presented but will do so.
 
Quote
3.  Have you tried to put an Unbalanced Wheel on the same axle of a "normal motor" and check the increase in torque?  If so, have you fed that to the Input of another more powerful "normal motor/generator"?

No I haven't but Prof. Kanarev's modification of Linevitch's device has demonstrated this successfully.

One thing you should keep in mind which Prof. Kanarev points out is that you cannot achieve over-efficiency without modulating the transmission of energy from prime mover to output generation. He used electronically controlled clutches to achieve some impressive results.

Best regards,
Charlie
 

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 21, 2015, 01:05:22 AM
None that have demonstrated so-called 'over-unity'. I have however determined that I can achieve 'over-efficiency'.
 
I admit that I haven't looked at the math presented but will do so.
 
No I haven't but Prof. Kanarev's modification of Linevitch's device has demonstrated this successfully.

One thing you should keep in mind which Prof. Kanarev points out is that you cannot achieve over-efficiency without modulating the transmission of energy from prime mover to output generation. He used electronically controlled clutches to achieve some impressive results.

Best regards,
Charlie

Dear Charlie,
 
Thank you for your speedy response.  The Tong Wheel already got funding and the Ting Wheel is likely to get funding in Hong Kong also.  Their key points are:
 
1.  Both demonstrated that the Output Power is greater than Input Power.
2.  Both used Unbalanced Wheel.
3.  The energy required to rotate an Unbalanced Wheel is approximately the same as rotating a Balanced Wheel.  However, the Unbalanced Wheel can bring-in large amounts of gravitational energy.
4.  In the Ting Wheel, the large amount of gravitational energy is used to drive another commercially available generator B via gear/belt.
5.  The electricity from the generator B is sufficient to recharge the 12V battery, drive a fan, a refrigerator and some light bulbs.
6.  The 12V battery was used to drive a pulse wheel.  The exact construction of the Pulse wheel is the commercial secret.  It is likely that electromagnetic energy is brought-in inside this wheel...
7.  The Tong Wheel is similar except that the Unbalanced Wheel effect is achieved in the Pulse Wheel.  Both hope to generate 5KW for the average home.
 
It appears that the Unbalanced Wheel is the key.  It does not take much energy to rotate it.  However, it can bring-in significant amount of gravitational energy.  I shall attempt to do the mahematics to determine how much can be brought-in per revolution later...
 
Another hidden trump is the "Coil-magnet" lead-out energy entity.  That may also be the secret of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.
 
There is no violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy in a Lead-out Energy Device...

Morality Point:
 
Power of the Unbalanced Wheel???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 21, 2015, 04:50:13 PM
This PDF p. 7 has a great drawing for testing.
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg420469/#msg420469
chan wheel.pdf msg 2268 pdf - great chart with measurement formulas but
  the distance lifted must be considered for work in but the wheel
  weight only has to be lifted from about 10 to noon. best rotate wheel
  on the right  clockwise..... cause it has a greater force.

so how far does .1 oz have to be lifted? abt 1/4 the wheel diameter about 10 oclock
to noon because a pendulum will drop and continue on its own till about 10 oclock.
 
so I dropped  .1 oz  from 1 oclock on a 10 inch dia wheel lifting
.2 oz weight about 3+ inches. so that means that .1 oz must be rotated
and "work expended lifted" from 10 to noon which is 1/4 the 10 inch diameter
ie. 2.5 inches so we have .5 inches of extra work. ie 120% OU.

But as I did  - do we have to take out the .1 dropped weight from the
.2 lifted weight because they balance out on the arm?
Or can we leave that in and get even more OU?
If we leave that in we get .25 oz inches of work in and .6 oz inches of work out.
which is 240% OU.

Folks this is a very easy test to do. I used the plywood from clementine boxes
to make a wheel and the stand for this test in less than 1 hour.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 21, 2015, 06:39:09 PM
I don't really follow you, Norman. I'll have another look later.

In the meanwhile, could we not arrange a ratchet so that when the weight is raised, it does not fall again.

We would need to take into account that this will alter the geometry of the system, of course.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on January 21, 2015, 07:48:21 PM
I don't really follow you, Norman. I'll have another look later.

In the meanwhile, could we not arrange a ratchet so that when the weight is raised, it does not fall again.

We would need to take into account that this will alter the geometry of the system, of course.
You can use "one-way" bearings that are readily obtained from your local hobby shop that sells RC helicopter parts, with matching precision shaft inserts. This will not change the geometry of the system.
http://www.aligntrexstore.com/One-Way-Bearing-New-HS1229-for-T-Rex-450_p_76.html
http://www.helipal.com/hz026-one-way-bearing-shaft.html
Experimenters doing these tests should review some basic engineering dynamics first, so that they do the calculations _correctly_.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/torq2.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 21, 2015, 08:45:05 PM
I don't really follow you, Norman. I'll have another look later.

In the meanwhile, could we not arrange a ratchet so that when the weight is raised, it does not fall again.

We would need to take into account that this will alter the geometry of the system, of course.


Paul, that is what I would do next and did try once awhile back but it failed then. I'm more
hopeful now. The trick is not to waste too much on the way down so it will require the
opposite of a ratchet up. You don't want to waste power on the whole turn of the  wheel.
So a ratchet that pulls the wheel from 10 oclock till noon and then lets the wheel/pendulum
freewheel till it goes around to 10 oclock again when it needs a boost.
I'm thinking about how to do that cause its snowing and I'm inside till it stops.

Norman
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 22, 2015, 03:02:54 PM
You can use "one-way" bearings that are readily obtained from your local hobby shop that sells RC helicopter parts
Its good to see you throwing in your sixpennyworth, TK. Like a tablespoon of rum in the fruit salad.

Good to know about the bearing. Is there such a thing as a "one-way" shaft - for linear movement?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 23, 2015, 02:22:47 PM
The presentation on Jan 22, 2015.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 23, 2015, 03:01:35 PM
My simple experiments demonstrated 2 principle discoveries.
1. with the lifted weight on the left and the rotating unbalanced wheel on the right
  a clockwise rotation will lift more weight on the left.
2. with the same arrangement above a weight on a string falling 1 inch will turn
the wheel further when started at noon than at 10 oclock. And if that weight
is sufficient it will rotate the wheel 2 or 3 times.

I used the crude setup in this photo. I don't build complex expensive stuff till I can
see the basic principle in simple construction. Here the material is cheap and rapid prototype.
For an axle I prefer a bicycle wheel spoke - strong and straight. And being small it has
little friction. I also prefer weights/washers for measureing work instead of meters that
can be off calibration.

The prop on the left holds the wheel until I get the drop distance of the 3 washers
on the right adjusted to the height I want to test. The stop below the 3 washers on the right
limit the distance dropped and thus the work in. The seesaw in the back was used
to see principle 1 above.

So I encourage you go get in the game and see some of this for yourself.

Next I will do the seesaw and see what the dropping weight can lift and then
I will know if there is OU.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 23, 2015, 03:07:47 PM
The problem is to realise the energy inherent in the raising of the weight; I think we need to get back to the simplicity of the water pump
http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on January 23, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
I have already layed out all the best concepts and concrete explanations for mechanical devices.

Wich far surpasses all that Ltseung has shown and goes beyond milkovic.

on my yt , skyrinninjamod

I, with Charlie, are certified pros and our word is final.

There is also the universal engine, wich could be discussed.

But I havent seen anythingt from those guys yet.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 23, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
The hand pump needs to be properly balanced to the weight of the
water column and the pump rod mechanism and the handle so that
the person is only lifting one cycle of water a few inches. That is why
the handle is long and often weighted on the end. But remember that
a given pump is not tuned to the various well depths.
So you can see then that if tuned the work done is merely lets say
lifting half a gallon of water maybe 6 inches which is quite easy.

Then if you add the Milkovic factor its even less. But if its really
9:1 then it should run by itself. I have not seen that yet. Have you?

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 23, 2015, 03:49:15 PM
OK folks, here's my challenge. If the Chan wheel is OU then they can be cascaded
together such that a small one is cascaded to larger and larger ones such that
a small child can turn a wheel similar to a tricycle wheel and in turn lift up his
parent at the other end of the cascaded devices.

And then build these in public places such that  the whole country can see OU  right in front of their faces.
Wouldn't that be quite a movement. Far greater than a football game or a Rube Goldberg entertaining contraption.

But the nasayers say it can't be done...Lets see guys. Lets just do it.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 23, 2015, 05:04:32 PM
... That is why the handle is long and often weighted on the end...
You must be thinking of the traditional design water pump. This model has no handle; only a pendulum which we keep swinging.

An electromagnet giving a pulse at the right time will keep the pendulum swinging, and give us "Energy in".

The rate of flow of water times the final overall height gain will give the "Energy out".

(keeping the units consistent and for a set amount of time).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 23, 2015, 08:19:11 PM
The attached diagram shows the experiment to be done by us in the next few weeks.

The same or similar experiment was done by other groups.  The one I am aware of was - using cylinders instead of wheels.  A cylinder can be treated as multiple wheels placed together.  (The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.)

Whether the simple Unbalanced Wheel can lead-out gravitational energy can be demonstrated should not be too difficult.  From the experience in tuning the other Pulse Wheels, I believe we need to hunt for "resonance" conditions.  The efficiency of the set up dramatically increases at certain rotational speeds.  (pushing the pendulum at the right time.)

Are any of you in a position to do such an experiment?
How do you measure the various entities: Input Power, Output Power Torque, rotational speed etc?

Morality Point:
The Chan Wheel is easy to construct but the implications are...

Any motor A can drive a more powerful Generator B using the lead-out gravitational energy.  B can then power Motor A and we have a  self loop...  QEG can be turned to WITTS.  Do we need resonance conditions???

Morality Point:

Old Tseung cannot even tighten a screw properly.  Asking him to do experiments is like asking a one legged man to win the Olympics.  But the one legged man can cheer and even advise the Olympic winners...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 23, 2015, 08:40:21 PM
The problem is to realise the energy inherent in the raising of the weight; I think we need to get back to the simplicity of the water pump
http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm

What would happen if the pulsed pendulum is replaced by a rotating Unbalanced Wheel powered by a small electric motor?  Can the Input Power be measured accurately?  Can the Output Power (water to be raised to a given height) be measured accurately?

Can we confirm OU for Milkovic and Chan Wheel with such setups?

Morality Point:

Small swings of an Unbalanced Wheel act exactly like a pendulum.  That implies that almost anything a pendulum can do, an Unbalanced Wheel can do.  But the Unbalanced Wheel is more powerful in that it can have 360 degree rotation and that the rotational rate can be much higher.  The higher rotational speed will give rise to higher centrifugal force and much more gravitational energy can be brought-in during the same period.

Milkovic and supporters will soon agree with the above fact.  Their research will rise to a new level...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 23, 2015, 08:46:47 PM
OK folks, here's my challenge. If the Chan wheel is OU then they can be cascaded
together such that a small one is cascaded to larger and larger ones such that
a small child can turn a wheel similar to a tricycle wheel and in turn lift up his
parent at the other end of the cascaded devices.

And then build these in public places such that  the whole country can see OU  right in front of their faces.
Wouldn't that be quite a movement. Far greater than a football game or a Rube Goldberg entertaining contraption.

But the nasayers say it can't be done...Lets see guys. Lets just do it.

Norman

The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier has 3 sets of cylinders...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 24, 2015, 03:49:05 AM
You can use "one-way" bearings that are readily obtained from your local hobby shop that sells RC helicopter parts, with matching precision shaft inserts. This will not change the geometry of the system.
http://www.aligntrexstore.com/One-Way-Bearing-New-HS1229-for-T-Rex-450_p_76.html
http://www.helipal.com/hz026-one-way-bearing-shaft.html
Experimenters doing these tests should review some basic engineering dynamics first, so that they do the calculations _correctly_.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/torq2.html

Dear Tk,

I found the following video you posted a few years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXpEqoDJDbM

Have you tried to use an Unbalanced Wheel mounted vertically to check on the same Minato Effect?

We also found similar effects a few years ago using a Balanced Wheel.  Now we want to repeat using an Unbalanced Wheel but the old setup was "gone".

You may be able to reproduce your setup and unbalance it...

Morality Point:
Minato may have already demonstrated leading out of magnetic energy.  Pulsing it with gravitational energy may reveal new knowledge...

God Bless,

Lawrence
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 24, 2015, 04:26:32 AM
Last two slides of the presentation.

Note that we recommended approaching WITTS.  My belief is that the WITTS Generator is no hoax.  We may be able to add an Unbalanced Wheel to QEG and make it closer to WITTS.

However the diameter and the unbalanced Weight may produce different resonance conditions.  Tuning it to match the QEG observed resonance may need some work...

Donations may ease the work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 24, 2015, 03:16:52 PM
What would happen if the pulsed pendulum is replaced by a rotating Unbalanced Wheel powered by a small electric motor?
Why bother?

All we need is an electromagnet and a timing device
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 24, 2015, 05:37:51 PM
Just a possible small correction on your technical presentation.

On page 11 you show Mr. Chalkalis' device and call out the flywheel as being balanced. It's not.

If you view the video at just after the 4:00 point when he does the 'walk-around', you can see that the flywheel has an offset mass which is actually counterbalancing the main rotor. Unless this is what you were referring to when you say balanced?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on January 24, 2015, 07:00:15 PM
If we have oscillating ''middle point'' of a mass.

We can use movement itself as timing tensionner of a belt no?

What kind of belt would resist to this abuse, not the teethed.

This of this video as an example. what if I created a loose triangular belt that gets tensionned and motor inputs its stored energy in a shock type scenario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqeKnc_eyM

I think I mentionned this before. But preferably, you would want to push the far side, wich has greater torque but les SFM, but forces do translate their as well.
Far side smacks are more complicated, you need magnets, of very ingenois computer controlled physical methods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M89QnJaPY8

I wonder whats their trick here, hydraulics and magnets. Combinations of both strenght and speed/suddenness

Theres something that Ltseung is missing that these guys have figured out.

Doubt things would be this big if they were not power ready for customers.

I have asked Ltseung many time, What parameters of dictate frequency of push vs constant load.
This is something that Ltseung has not yet put on paper, all these papers are useless in terms of practicality.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 24, 2015, 10:01:51 PM

I have asked Ltseung many time, What parameters of dictate frequency of push vs constant load.
This is something that Ltseung has not yet put on paper, all these papers are useless in terms of practicality.

The period of swing of a simple gravity pendulum depends on its length, the local strength of gravity, and to a small extent on the maximum angle that the pendulum swings away from vertical.  It is independent of the mass of the bob. If the amplitude is limited to small swings, the period T of a simple pendulum, the time taken for a complete cycle, is approximately

2 x pi x Sqrt(L/g)    where pi=3.1416, L=length, g=local gravitational acceleration

If the Unbalanced Wheel is kept to small angle swings, we can match the frequency of other components easily.  Unfortunately the Unbalanced Wheel works best in complete rotations.  That formula no longer holds.

The alternative is to do experiments.  Instead of keep changing wheels, we can have a weight that can slide on a rod.  Hunting for resonance is not easy as we do not have the magic formula yet...

The QEG achieved resonance at approximately 400 hz, what is the diameter of the Unbalanced Wheel to match that?  Putting any Unbalanced Wheel on may not get resonance.  (Pushing the swing blindly...)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 24, 2015, 10:17:24 PM
Just a possible small correction on your technical presentation.

On page 11 you show Mr. Chalkalis' device and call out the flywheel as being balanced. It's not.

If you view the video at just after the 4:00 point when he does the 'walk-around', you can see that the flywheel has an offset mass which is actually counterbalancing the main rotor. Unless this is what you were referring to when you say balanced?

Good point.  When I played with the Yuen Wheel, a single unbalanced wheel produced much shaking.  When I put two wheels, the shaking was reduced.  The two wheels can be individually balanced or unbalanced.  I believe Mr. Chalkalis may have found something similar.  The total system is still unbalanced...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 25, 2015, 02:20:47 PM
Refer to the diagram on reply 2525, there are certain points to note:

1.   The top setup with the motor driving a flywheel will not produce a seesaw action.  No gravitational energy is expected to be brought-in.
2.   The bottom setup with the motor driving an Unbalanced Wheel will produce the seesaw action.  The Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory attributes this to bringing-in gravitational energy.
3.   The Lee-Tseung theory explains the Milkovic 2SO as a lead-out energy device.  It follows that the Chan Wheel will also be a lead-out energy device with higher efficiency.
4.   The William Skinner device is likely to be another lead-out energy device.  See the Youtube video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIRaJlTD4Y
5.   The Peru scientist, Chalkalis, also used the Unbalanced Wheel to lead-out gravitational energy.
6.   The Chas Campbell system is likely to be based on the Unbalanced Wheel.
7.   The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier uses 3 sets of Cylinders (likely to be unbalanced).
8.   The Tong and Ting Wheels definitely use Unbalanced Wheels.  (I helped to design or advise them.)
9.     The Bessler Wheel may not be a hoax.  We are developing the Yuen Wheel.
10.   Almost forgot the Taiwan device.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xj_XUWKiIM  The device was shown on TV and the inventor Tang and team already got funding.  They can be contacted and their product is expected to be out within 1 year.


The above points indicate that leading-out or bringing-in gravitational energy is possible.  We just need to confirm it more.  My personal preference is to lead-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy.

Morality Point:
Focus on Points 1 and 2.  We shall learn much from the experiments.

(Improving the Milkovic 2SO with the Chan Wheel provided us with much new understanding...)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 26, 2015, 12:54:57 AM
Experiment to be done.

Is any one in a position to do the experiment?

Pull the weight in case c at the right time.  Does the seesaw action happen?


Morality Point:


We need oscillation, vibration, unbalanced rotation to lead out gravitation energy.  Can we add flux change when dealing with electromagnets?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 26, 2015, 12:10:54 PM
Another experiment to consider.

The pendulum can be a spring.

Pulsing...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 26, 2015, 01:39:48 PM
reply to msg 2537 tests.
"A permanent magnet attraction to metal force is less than
the holding back force "after it passes the metal. If that were not
true then a pendulum would speed up when it passed. So there
is no gain but if you view this very sick pendulum you will observe
something against the known rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74   30 seconds

Asside from the fact that it goes higher than its dropped point.
HINT: Watch the speed of the pendulum when it goes clockwise and then
compare that with its speed as it comes back.

Norman
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on January 26, 2015, 03:20:28 PM

Aside from the fact that it goes higher than its dropped point.
HINT: Watch the speed of the pendulum when it goes clockwise and then
compare that with its speed as it comes back.

The push from the magnets is counteracted by the opposite effect on the way back.

You need to consider a complete cycle, not aq part of one.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 26, 2015, 08:19:10 PM
Some interesting videos related to our coming experiments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHhZZ9DuzK4
The big unbalanced wheel and the statement from Chalkalis that he wants to give this to the World.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-C0x6xtL4
Modified FM Chalkalis Energy Multiplier - 1330% Efficiency
The input motor is from a drill driving the big arm (unbalanced wheel) via friction.  The setup will increase torque.

Does the Unbalanced Wheel bring-in gravitational energy?  More experiments needed.

Morality point:

Add a flysheel to store energy.  Add an unbalanced wheel to bring-in gravitational energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 26, 2015, 09:03:08 PM
Ok the Chalkalis stuff is about 4 years old and by now if it works should be everywhere - even Walmart - but is not, therefore it gets a big red flag from me.

Now, what I saw was the same as my tests of the chan wheel. Adding spin on the down swing is more effective than elsewhere but he is not getting the chan wheel "yankdown work" that comes completely free.

And my experience has been the when you take power out of a syncronized system it goes
unsyncronized and likely under unity - UU.

Again, I don't build devices of that size till a small one proves the concept - then I go for  the serious scale up. I did like the smaller one with the drill driver motor.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 27, 2015, 12:39:12 AM
Ok the Chalkalis stuff is about 4 years old and by now if it works should be everywhere - even Walmart - but is not, therefore it gets a big red flag from me.

Now, what I saw was the same as my tests of the chan wheel. Adding spin on the down swing is more effective than elsewhere but he is not getting the chan wheel "yankdown work" that comes completely free.

And my experience has been the when you take power out of a syncronized system it goes
unsyncronized and likely under unity - UU.

Again, I don't build devices of that size till a small one proves the concept - then I go for  the serious scale up. I did like the smaller one with the drill driver motor.

Norman

The Chalkalis stuff is about 4 years old.  The inventor and supporters all focused on getting energy out from the spinning Unbalanced Wheel itself.  A new direction may be to treat that Unbalanced Wheel as a "tool" to lead-out gravitational energy only.  Chalkalis himself is not a Physicist and the average academic physicist just walks away without doing serious experiments.  So far, I have not seen vigorous scientific measurements on Input Power, Output Power, Torque etc from that camp yet.  In particular, I would like to see the waveforms from oscilloscopes to confirm harmonic motion and the amplitude increase at resonance.

The William Skinner device was shown in 1939.  Is it a real Gravity Machine?  It is made up of rotating unbalanced wheels...
 
It is a similar case with the Milkovic 2SO.  The inventor and supporters all focused on pushing the pendulum.  The amount of energy that can be lead-out is small. Once they change their mindset and go for the Unbalanced Wheel, their results will be much better.  The Milkovic 2SO must have been around for more than 4 years?

I shall turn to the more theoretical points.

1.  If there is a constant field, an object will go along the lines of that field.  An example is gravity.  A mass will fall.
2.  If the constant field is wind, an object will be blown in the direction of the wind.  But is it possible to sail into the Wind?  My late  father owned a Chinese fishing yacht with two sails. The crew was able to sail into the wind in a zigzag path.  They did that to impress us. (But the more practical way was to use the outboard motor...)
3.  If the field were fluctuating, we may be able to "sail along" or "sail into" the field.  Our device may use the "force" in one direction to propel and "ignore or diminish" the effect of the "force" in the opposite direction.
4. If the field is in one direction, can we use a "jumping" action to "use or extract or bring-in" some of its energy? Is the Milkovic 2SO an example?

5,  If the field itself is fluctuating, can the "jumping" action "use or extract or bring-in" more of its energy?
6.  If we can produce the field ourselves, what are the implications?
7. If the "materials to produce the field" already possess energy (magnets or dipoles), can the resulting output energy "use" such existing energy and be more than the observed input energy???

Morality Point:

A permanent magnet can be used to do work.  The amount of work performed can be many times that used to create it...

The Chan Wheel stuff is helping to improve the Milkovic 2SO.  My gut feel is that it will also improve the Chalkalis stuff.

If Chalkalis bluntly told the World 4 years ago that a Balanced Wheel cannot bring-in gravitational energy but an Unbalanced Wheel can, what would have happened?  (We are doing that now.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 27, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
Lawrence said
Morality Point:

A permanent magnet can be used to do work.  The amount of work performed can be many times that used to create it..."

A case where this is done is in your auto radiator fan. They all have permanent magnets
and coils and if you think about that you realize that half of the power can come from
those permanent magnets. The other half comes from the battery current which should
mean a 50% power savings.

Yes permanent magnets can do useful work.
And I agree but I know how hard this crowd is on measurements.
Even measurements are not enough. The final test is always can it be looped back to itself?

All we need is  a small force to release a larger force of a permanent magnet.
I've seen various examples of this but no one has shown good measurements
and none looped back to itself. For example Echlin generator and also the Flynn parallel path stuff.


Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 27, 2015, 02:53:51 AM
Hi Norman,

I enjoy the technical discussion.  I am sure that we are on the right path.  If I were to advice the Peru Group, I would ask:

1. If one wheel works, how about two wheels on the same axle?
2. If two wheels is better, how about multiple wheels (or a cylinder as in the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier)?

Why are they not using the Unbalanced Cylinder after 4 years?  It is obviously a superior setup???
Why is Milkovic and supporters not using the Unbalanced Wheel...

Am I disclosing Chinese State Secrets?  What will they do?

Lawrence
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 27, 2015, 05:04:55 AM
You should read Kanarev's treatise on Impulse Power which relates here and is very enlightening. He includes all of the math to show how you can easily achieve over-efficiency utilizing a pair of opposing unbalanced weights.

Here's a portion:
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 27, 2015, 05:12:26 AM
The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Secret?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 28, 2015, 01:16:04 AM
Can we treat the trampoline as a lead-out or bring-in energy device?
 
We know that gravity acts downwards.  An athlete jumps at the right time on the trampoline.  The result is a much higher height reached.  The action acts against gravity.  Gravity pulls the athlete down – providing him with gravitational energy.  Can we say that the athlete uses this energy to help him bounce higher?
 
Is it a case of leading-out or bringing-in gravitational energy to do useful work?  Is the resulting height achieved comes from a combination of the “jumping energy” and the lead-out gravitational energy?
 
If jumping can bring-in gravitational energy, the Milkovic 2SO, the Unbalanced Chan Wheel, the Peru Unbalanced Wheel, the Tsinghua Unbalanced Cylinders are all “jumping devices”.
 
There is little doubt that the lead-out energy is real.  If we can lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy, we can…


Example of leading-out electromagnetic energy:

Kanarev's (Electro)Magnet Motor with Schematic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7pdykBFLMQ

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on January 28, 2015, 04:08:56 AM
So there a new picture by premarajan.

As the sims show, most power is offered by free floating variation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 28, 2015, 04:31:20 AM
So there a new picture by premarajan.

As the sims show, most power is offered by free floating variation.

If you look at his older pictures it looks like a finalization of an earlier machine that he hadn't completed yet. I wish he'd put up a video and some results.

And I agree with you that having more than one range of motion (floating oscillation) is the only way to go.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 28, 2015, 11:59:18 PM
The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Secret? (reply 2546)

Feedback?
 
We shall never work with you again.  Our hard work will have no financial return.
 
Morality Point:
 
Profit and Benefits to the World - can they be mixed?
 
The beauty of the Unbalanced Wheel or Unbalanced Cylinder is that it can bring-in gravitational energy and make almost any device OU.  The road block of Violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy is removed...
 
The experiment suggested on reply 2525 can be done by almost any group - academic or industrial.  The secret of the 225 HP Pulse Motor is out.  Oil prices are unlikely to rise significantly again.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 30, 2015, 03:43:44 PM
New pendulum pump replica from India:

Pendulam Operated Water Pump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGGfk6peHdI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGGfk6peHdI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 30, 2015, 06:13:40 PM
And yet the Feltenburger pendulum pump seems to be easier to operate and pumps more water/hour.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 30, 2015, 07:32:34 PM
I almost forgot to mention the Laing car that is supposed to generate 188 HP.

It contained two cylinders.  One can be an Unbalanced Cylinder with permanent magnets.  The other contains pulse coils or equivalent.  Both gravitational and electromagnetic energy can be brought-in.

We can now see that the pendulum is not as interesting as the unbalanced wheel or cylinder...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 31, 2015, 01:16:13 AM

Feedback?
 
We shall never work with you again.  Our hard work will have no financial return.
 
Morality Point:
 
Profit and Benefits to the World - can they be mixed?
 
The beauty of the Unbalanced Wheel or Unbalanced Cylinder is that it can bring-in gravitational energy and make almost any device OU.  The road block of Violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy is removed...
 
The experiment suggested on reply 2525 can be done by almost any group - academic or industrial.  The secret of the 225 HP Pulse Motor is out.  Oil prices are unlikely to rise significantly again.

Are any of you in a position to do the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier with Unbalanced Cylinders in reply 2546?
  The story was that an eighty year old inventor put one of these devices in a factory and saved 90% electricity bills.  The local electricity company accused him of stealing electricity.  He found Tsinghua University to be the "judge".  Tsinghua found him innocent. 

The technology became an "unexplained state secret" until Lee and Tseung proposed the lead-out energy theory.

The lead-out energy theory predicts that the Milkovic 2SO, Chan Wheel, William Skinner Device, Bessler Wheel, Peru and Chas Campbell Devices are all theoretically sound.  The Unbalanced Cylinder is likely to be superior as it is many unbalanced wheels bundled together.

Who will reproduce this "unexplained Chinese State Secret" and benefit the World?

If leading-out gravitational energy is possible, how about magnetic and electromagnetic???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on January 31, 2015, 02:07:31 AM
You harbor sometimes entertaining fantasies Lawrence.  With all the folks choking in severe smog, if the PRC government had access to a technology that made easy and cheap energy savings of the kind you claim one would wonder why they would not aggressively deploy such a thing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on January 31, 2015, 05:07:59 AM

Are any of you in a position to do the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier with Unbalanced Cylinders in reply 2546?
  The story was that an eighty year old inventor put one of these devices in a factory and saved 90% electricity bills.  The local electricity company accused him of stealing electricity.  He found Tsinghua University to be the "judge".  Tsinghua found him innocent. 

The technology became an "unexplained state secret" until Lee and Tseung proposed the lead-out energy theory.

The lead-out energy theory predicts that the Milkovic 2SO, Chan Wheel, William Skinner Device, Bessler Wheel, Peru and Chas Campbell Devices are all theoretically sound.  The Unbalanced Cylinder is likely to be superior as it is many unbalanced wheels bundled together.

Who will reproduce this "unexplained Chinese State Secret" and benefit the World?

If leading-out gravitational energy is possible, how about magnetic and electromagnetic???

I like the design. Do you know if the individual cylinders are linked to each other with some type of timing? You show a belt but I'm wondering if a chain was actually employed. Do you know?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on January 31, 2015, 06:44:11 AM
How is this concept more proven than Chas Campbell and flywheel systems.

Wich were widely demonstrated in a multitude of videos

Lets us reconsider and ponder on thhese.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr67j71NSsQ&list=PLvAzms-COt4ZkheBJZ24-p2O8rPef1DHK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm1UK-5-AD4

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=UCUZA+ENERJ%C4%B0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 31, 2015, 07:55:29 AM
I like the design. Do you know if the individual cylinders are linked to each other with some type of timing? You show a belt but I'm wondering if a chain was actually employed. Do you know?

Thanks.

At that time (2006), we were told the story.  We then saw a video with massive cylinders.  I believe there were 3 cylinders but I was not sure how they were linked to each other.
 
Once we explained the possible workings using the Lee-Tseung lead-out theory, we were interrupted.  (The US team who developed the 225 HP Pulse Motor were there.)
 
At that time, I did not know whether the cylinders were balanced or unbalanced.  But the top brains at Tsinghua University could easily figure that out.  They had access to the device and was able to replicate it...
 
Am I disclosing "Chinese State Secrets"?  I am lucky to be in Hong Kong.
 
This reminds me that I forgot to mention Mr. Wang Shen He.  He was with us at Tsinghua University and he had an "all magnetic motor coupled with shielding and fluid rotation".  He was made a millionaire.  The joke in Hong Kong was - US poisoned their scientists.  China made them millionaires and kept them quiet.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 31, 2015, 08:22:29 AM
How is this concept more proven than Chas Campbell and flywheel systems.

Wich were widely demonstrated in a multitude of videos

Lets us reconsider and ponder on thhese.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr67j71NSsQ&list=PLvAzms-COt4ZkheBJZ24-p2O8rPef1DHK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr67j71NSsQ&list=PLvAzms-COt4ZkheBJZ24-p2O8rPef1DHK)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm1UK-5-AD4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm1UK-5-AD4)

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=UCUZA+ENERJ%C4%B0 (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=UCUZA+ENERJ%C4%B0)

I am specifically interested in the second video from the first link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwv_hos3qyI&index=2&list=PLvAzms-COt4ZkheBJZ24-p2O8rPef1DHK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwv_hos3qyI&index=2&list=PLvAzms-COt4ZkheBJZ24-p2O8rPef1DHK)
 
MOTOR-GENERATOR «YMNEE»
 
This may be a simple alternative to WITTS.
 
Good job.  Now, how do we get more information?  Are they willing to "give" this technology to the World???
 
Do we have enough technical knowledge to "build" it?
 
The unbalanced cylinder is essentially a super-set of flywheels and pendulums.  It can store energy as well as lead-out gravitational energy.  It should be more efficient than the Peru or Chas Campbell devices.  (The Chan Wheel is superior to the Milkovic 2SO.)
 
The Chas Campbell devices did not get the proper scientific recognition because of the "road block of violating the Law of Conservation of Energy".  Hopefully, the road block is now removed.
 
@ARMCORTEX, I shall read more of your posts and videos.  Thank you for the good work you have produced. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on January 31, 2015, 03:35:58 PM
Here is the Chan wheel clincher test...

I propose the following simple chan wheel test.
See the attached photo which has the following
1. a wheel on the right with a washer weight at the top
2. a string attached to that wheel than can input power
   to pull the wheel off of the noon position where it will rotate
3. 3 washers on that string down on the right with a cardboard
stop underneath so that we only power the wheel from noon
to 2 oclock and the washers stop pulling but the wheel continues to rotate
4. a pivot in the middle
5. enough weight on the left to balance the wheel on the right - see the large washers
6. a little extra weight on the left to be lifted by the chan wheel "yank down" force.

the input work calculation from 3 above = weight x distance
and the output work calculation is from 6 above  = weight x distance.

I suggest that the work in be enough to get the wheel to rotate once fully
back up to noon and then you will get two chan wheel "yank down" forces
to measure.

If the chan wheel can pass this simple OU test by numerous testers then we have a
winner. If not then the keyboarders win.

My test results had very poor results. I don't think my washer has enough mass to
get it rotating fast enough. I will do more tests before I post them.

 Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on January 31, 2015, 10:46:52 PM
Here is the Chan wheel clincher test...

I propose the following simple chan wheel test.
See the attached photo which has the following
1. a wheel on the right with a washer weight at the top
2. a string attached to that wheel than can input power
   to pull the wheel off of the noon position where it will rotate
3. 3 washers on that string down on the right with a cardboard
stop underneath so that we only power the wheel from noon
to 2 oclock and the washers stop pulling but the wheel continues to rotate
4. a pivot in the middle
5. enough weight on the left to balance the wheel on the right - see the large washers
6. a little extra weight on the left to be lifted by the chan wheel "yank down" force.

the input work calculation from 3 above = weight x distance
and the output work calculation is from 6 above  = weight x distance.

I suggest that the work in be enough to get the wheel to rotate once fully
back up to noon and then you will get two chan wheel "yank down" forces
to measure.

If the chan wheel can pass this simple OU test by numerous testers then we have a
winner. If not then the keyboarders win.

My test results had very poor results. I don't think my washer has enough mass to
get it rotating fast enough. I will do more tests before I post them.

 Norman

Dear norman6538,
 
Your experiment missed the application of the lead-out energy and the exact time when gravitational energy is brought into the system.
 
1.  Let us assume that the weight on the LHS is so heavy that the Chan Wheel cannot lift it.  The Chan Wheel can still rotate.  If the unbalanced washer is put at noon position, the wheel will rotate back to less than the noon position and stop.  This is the simple potential energy converting to kinetic energy situation.
 
2.  If the weight on the LHS is reduced so that the Chan wheel can lift it.  The question then becomes - will the rotational speed (or swing amplitude) decrease on lifting the weight?  If the amplitude decreases significantly, energy is probably transferred from the rotating wheel to lifting the weight.
 
3.  In the Raymond Head video with massive construction, the finger movement can lift the weight with no significant decrease in swing amplitude.  That indicates the bringing-in of gravitational energy.
 
4.  In the pulled pendulum case, mathematics proved that the energy is brought-in at the pulling stage - not the swing stage.  In the Milkovic 2SO case, the energy is brought-in at the lever movement stage.
 
5.  If you compare the finger swing energy and the wieght lifting energy, you will find that the weight lifting energy is much higher than the swing energy.  However, that is not the true comparison of Input verse Output energy.  Much of the weight lifting energy is used to bring the system back to its original position.  However, some will be brought-in to do the lever motion.
 
Thus your experiment in itself would not be conclusive.  One can always argue that the frictional force is so high that it invalidates any result.  When the Chan Wheel rotates at signicant speeds, the ratio of friction loss to energy brought-in is greatly reduced.  One can then see the effect.
 
The more conclusive experiment is the Skinner device where much more gravitational energy is brought-in to do useful work.  Other experiments include using the Unbalanced Wheel in the Peru, Chas Campbell, Tong and Ting Wheels or the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier etc.
 
Morality Point:
 
1.  Let Milkovic and team improve their results with the Unbalanced Wheel or Unbalanced Cylinder.
 
2.  Let the Peru and Chas Campbell teams improve their results with the Unbalanced Cylinder.
 
3.  Let the Skinner teams reproduce a working model.
 
4.  Let the Tsinghua University team improve the Energy Multiplier (may still be State Secret).
 
5.  We shall continue to work on the Yuen Wheel to see if we can do the Bessler Wheel effect.  We already have the set up.
 
6.  Encourage other researchers to examine the lead-out energy theory and use that to lead-out magnetic or electromagnetic energies.  Tell them the road block has been removed.
 
7.  Have the QEG teams put on Unbalanced Wheels or Cylnders to get new resonance.  The extra gravitational energy may help them to achieve OU and self loop.
 
Do not try to do all the work ourselves...  The Divine Wine is for all to share.
 
I am happy to go to my grave with the Lead-out Energy Theory and have an Unbalanced Cylinder as my coffin.  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 01, 2015, 11:16:43 PM
Why would a Government keep lead-out energy devices such as the 225HP Pulse Motor a state secret?
 
Military Applications.
 
If a Nation has planes, tanks, submarines that require no fuel???
If their Laser Guns can fire forever???
 
The Military will try to keep the "secret" as long as possible.
 
But can they keep the secret forever with the Internet allowing any individual to announce his findings???
 
How can they prevent someone put a lead weight on a bicycle wheel and produce an Unbalanced Wheel?  How can they prevent someone put that unbalanced wheel on the shaft of an electric motor and get the Peru or Chas Campbell effects?  How can they prevent someone use unbalanced cylinders and save thousands in their electricity bills in their factories?
 
The oil rich nations must have seen or even possess working lead-out energy devices.  Is that why they are willing to sell their oil at low prices before the lead-out energy devices make it to the market???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 02, 2015, 12:17:58 AM
http://free-energy-info.co.uk/LTseung.pdf (http://free-energy-info.co.uk/LTseung.pdf)
 
Patrick Kelly put much of my information in the above file in 2007.
 
A picture of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier was shown.  The setup is for the whole factory - not just one machine.
 
Thanks to the Internet and the diligent work from people like Patrick Kelly.  The information will not die with the passing away of a few inventors...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 03, 2015, 12:35:49 AM
Is there a minimum size and weight before an Unbalanced Wheel Experiment becomes practical?
 
The "jumping" effect of the Unbalance Wheel depends on the Centrifugal force which is given by the formula
 F = (M x V x V)/R
 
where F = Centrifugal Force, M = Mass, V = Velocity and R = Radius
 
The better way is to use the other form of this force:
F = M x R x w x w  Where w is the angular velocity
 
(This force is also sometimes written in terms of the angular velocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_velocity) ω of the object about the center of the circle:   (http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/c/8/ac8cadb8a51a0e53c5b1db26147639a4.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/c/8/ac8cadb8a51a0e53c5b1db26147639a4.png)))
 
Thus a larger mass will increase the Force.
If we can increase the angular velocity (or the rotational speed), the force will increase even faster (related to the square of the angular velocity.  If angular velocity doubles, force increases 4 times).
We can also increase the radius.
 
This is why the Bessler Wheels got bigger and bigger with successive versions.
 
For a given Unbalanced Wheel to bring-in gravitational energy, the most practical way is to increase its velocity or rotational speed.  Thus the Chas Campbell arrangement should use Motor A to drive an Unbalanced Wheel at a reasonably high speed.  The Unbalanced Wheel itself can act as a flywheel to store mechanical energy.  A much greater torque is provided by the Unbalanced Weight.
 
The stored energy plus the greater torque will drive the shaft of a more powerful Generator B.  Additional gravitational energy is brought-in via the “jumping” action.  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier with Unbalanced Cylinders shoulod be seriously considered.
 
Thus for practical experiments, a large wheel with large Unbalanced Mass and a reasonably high rotational speed is needed.  The minimum size I recommend is a bicycle wheel with a lead weight such as the Chan Wheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 03, 2015, 12:57:29 AM
One more thing to know about the Unbapenlanced Wheel.
 
Where does the brought-in gravitational energy go?
 
A pendulum will increase its amplitude.  An unbalanced wheel will increase its rotational speed.
 
This is why a Motor driving an unbalanced wheel needs less Input power to maintain the same rotational speed.
 
Are any of you in a position to put an unblanced bicycle wheel on the shaft of your small motor?  What kind of measurements can you do?
 
Morality Point:
 
If the amount of gravitational energy brought-in is rotational speed dependent, then a small Motor A can drive an Unbalanced Cylinder at sufficient rotational speed to bring-in enough energy to drive another more powerful Generator B.  If that rotational speed is maintained, the Generator B will be able to use the brought-in gravitational energy to supply energy back to Motor A.  Self loop + additional electrical energy to supply other appliances is entirely possible.
 
The Peru and Chas Campbell and Tong and Ting Wheels etc have sound theoretical backing.  Tinkering got them results doubted by the traditional scientists.  If they now put on Unbalanced Cylinders and present their vastly improved and reproducible results together with the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy theory...
 
Adding an unbalanced cylinder will make the QEG self loop...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 03, 2015, 04:21:41 AM
The Dr. Liang Car cylinders.
 
He used ICs to provide repulsion.  Exactly what does that mean?
 
The Cylinders can be very close together.  The magnetic repulsion is much stronger when the distance is closer (1/(r x r)).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 03, 2015, 04:28:22 AM
The best Would be for you gentleman to kindly donate $ to me and noonespecial (purelyprimitives) and we will investigate pulse arrangements.

LawrenceTseung.

Plz arrange for donation of money to me and purelyprimitives.

We will further research things in efficient ways.

There is many ideas I wish to try now.

We will investigate techniques of pulse of mass theories by innovative means, trust me this will be good.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 03, 2015, 11:46:13 AM
The best Would be for you gentleman to kindly donate $ to me and noonespecial (purelyprimitives) and we will investigate pulse arrangements.

LawrenceTseung.

Plz arrange for donation of money to me and purelyprimitives.

We will further research things in efficient ways.

There is many ideas I wish to try now.

We will investigate techniques of pulse of mass theories by innovative means, trust me this will be good.

If you really want to something, you will find a way.
 
If you really want to avoid doing something, you will always find an excuse.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 03, 2015, 02:00:30 PM
ARMCORTEX speaks for himself only.

I'm currently involved in a collaborative effort and wouldn't have the time anyway.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 03, 2015, 03:30:24 PM
if I am payed for it, then there will be no excuse.

The day the lead-in theory gets better explained to me I will save aside some of my own investement for it.

I will build an universal test rig of high workmanship right here in my living room, all I need is about 1500$

I will also assist a retiree person to accomplish the courageous task of putting some of his money experimentation of the lead-out theories






Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 03, 2015, 03:47:13 PM
The Dr. Liang Car cylinders.
 
He used ICs to provide repulsion.  Exactly what does that mean?
 
The Cylinders can be very close together.  The magnetic repulsion is much stronger when the distance is closer (1/(r x r)).
By "IC", I take it you mean "integrated circuit".

How can an IC provide repulsion?

Does he have a patent or application? If so, what is its number?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 03, 2015, 10:42:39 PM
By "IC", I take it you mean "integrated circuit".

How can an IC provide repulsion?

Does he have a patent or application? If so, what is its number?

China Patent Number 01123526.8
 
Some IC circuit with coils??? 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 04, 2015, 12:06:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6q_l6FpacU

Could it be that there is some rotary flow switch that inputs a shock, then in the moment of impact, magnets turn on in successive pulse train like impacting the magnets on the inside of the aluminium ring.
His ring has offsetted holes in them to hold magnets and keep structural integrity, he has many large magnets.

The hydraulics are used to input something, in relation with, those magnets. The hydraulic system is not an energy recycling system, it is used in conjonciton with magnets, as the system driver, in an oscillator system so to speak.

How and in what situation does this apparently make this self-sustaining. This is where the lead-in theory is Lawrence Tseung falls short, it cannot help us understand things practically and lacks substance.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 04, 2015, 09:24:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6q_l6FpacU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6q_l6FpacU)

Could it be that there is some rotary flow switch that inputs a shock, then in the moment of impact, magnets turn on in successive pulse train like impacting the magnets on the inside of the aluminium ring.
His ring has offsetted holes in them to hold magnets and keep structural integrity, he has many large magnets.

The hydraulics are used to input something, in relation with, those magnets. The hydraulic system is not an energy recycling system, it is used in conjonciton with magnets, as the system driver, in an oscillator system so to speak.

How and in what situation does this apparently make this self-sustaining. This is where the lead-in theory is Lawrence Tseung falls short, it cannot help us understand things practically and lacks substance.

I could not pick up enough details from the video to give a judgement.  But I can make an educated guess from my experience with the Tong Wheel which questionably demonstrated Output Power greater than Input Power.
 
1.  The Tong Wheel was unbalanced.  The number of rotor magnets could be odd and not exactly symmetrically spaced.  We can have an Unbalanced Wheel by adding a weight.  We can also remove a section to make an Unbalanced Wheel.
 
2.  The coils to propel the magnets are likely to be driven by Pulsed DC.  This provides the oscillation or jumping effect to extract both gravitational and electromagnetic energy.
 
3.  The external flywheel stores some of the lead-out energy and helps in the self loop process. The Lee-Tseung Lead-out energy theory states that we need an oscillating, vibrating, pulse rotating or flux change mechanism to lead-out energy.  Does the device shown in the video contain such features?
 
I suspect the device is a variation of the Tong Wheel with the "Unbalancing" done within the rotational system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 04, 2015, 04:19:32 PM
Milkovic Pendulum replica by Konstantin Ivanov
 
Attempt to manufacture a "pendulum Milkovicha" from scrap parts and check the possibility of converting vibrational motions crossbar in rotation (followed by loading on the generator). Primary mayatnik- Dumbbell 3 kg, set top cargo bike frames- 3 kg.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf3B38bDZb4 (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dbf3B38bDZb4)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 04, 2015, 08:03:20 PM
Milkovic Pendulum replica by Konstantin Ivanov
 
Attempt to manufacture a "pendulum Milkovicha" from scrap parts and check the possibility of converting vibrational motions crossbar in rotation (followed by loading on the generator). Primary mayatnik- Dumbbell 3 kg, set top cargo bike frames- 3 kg.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf3B38bDZb4 (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dbf3B38bDZb4)

This is a typical "replication" mentality.  The replicator does not know the theory.  He just copies or modifies the original device.
 
If he knows the lead-out energy theory, he would have asked - what is the best way to lead-out the gravitational energy?
 
He would most probably find the solution in the Unbalanced Wheel or the Unbalanced Cylinder.
 
It is not too late.  He can use his experience and resources to study the Lead-out energy theory and then use the unbalanced Wheel or Unbalanced Cylinder...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 05, 2015, 12:54:21 AM
ARMCORTEX speaks for himself only.

I'm currently involved in a collaborative effort and wouldn't have the time anyway.

I have now watched your many videos on youtube.  Your workmanship is first class.  Once you are aware of the power of the Unbalanced Wheel and the Unbalanced Cylinder, you will find a way to incorporate it into your work.
 
There is and there will be no patent on the Unbalanced Wheel or the Unbalanced Cylinder.  Just develop them to benefit mankind.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 05, 2015, 06:37:16 AM
Thank you Lawrence, you are very kind.

What you haven't seen of course, is the many, many failed attempts :) but I do sincerely appreciate your kind words.

Like you, I believe that the answer will be found in an unbalanced rotor operating within an overall balanced environment (i.e. - think about Skinner, Kanarev, Bobby etc.)

Best regards,
Charlie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 05, 2015, 07:07:01 AM
Ok so now, LTseung you know why I say you must find financing.

I say, its a group effort, I done my part, now I need people to di their part and give me $, to charlie as well.

A few oscillator ideas I wanna try on a specially design test right.
-----------------------------------------

Charlie, you are uncertain of that, all those are as of yet not engineering worthy and unproven.

We may need to innovate our thinking here, even tho we have been doing that. we need to see things
even more clearly.  And that there are a few false paths here, troublesome .
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 05, 2015, 07:22:30 AM
On a side note,

the thing wheel, tell the creator to try flexible coupling or joint arm as a main shaft, between the wheels themselves.

3 wobbling wheels on a snake like body.

perhaps theres a material that has some inherant flexibility?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 06, 2015, 09:48:18 PM
        If I were to advise a Government on developing a lead-out energy device prototype now, I would:
 
1.  Ask the Government to get experts to examine the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy theory and the presentations.
 
2.  Select one or more Electric Motor and Generator Manufacturers to work with. (or retailer)
 
3.  Do the prototype proposed on reply 2546.  Use different Motors as Input starting at 1/3 HP.  The Motor can be DC using a 12V battery.
 
4.  The Unbalanced Cylinders need experimenting.  Start with one Cylinder with diameter approximately equal to a standard bicycle wheel.  The Unbalanced weight can be a bar with the same length as the Cylinder.  Different weights need to be tried.
 
5.  The Generator can be 1HP producing DC to recharge another 12V battery.  Some small electrical appliances such as fans and lights can be used to demonstrate the generation of useful electricity from gravitational energy.
 
6.  The recharged battery can be swapped with the battery in 3 from time to time.  This can already demonstrate the principle of Lead-out Energy.
 
7. The two replies 2364 and 2365 should be studied in detail.  If Tsinghua University is willing to share the information, the World will benefit immediately.  If for some reason, Tsinghua University is not able to provide the information, do the experiments.
 
8.  Pay careful attention to the angular velocity or rotational speed.  The Centrifugal Force varies as the square of the angular velocity.  The amount of gravitational energy extracted is a function of the Centrifugal Force.
 
The energy formula can be simplified as:

Ein + Egravity = Eloss + Eout
 
or
 
Eout = Ein + Egravity – Eloss
 
Thus if Egravity is greater than Eloss, Eout will be greater than Ein.
 
It is a matter of selecting the right combination to lead-out enough gravitational energy to overcome all energy losses.  The theory is this simple.
 
(It combines the knowledge gained from the pulsed pendulum, the Milkovic 2SO, the Chan Wheel, the Skinner Device, the Peru Unbalanced Device, the Chas Campbell device and the Tsinghua Energy Multiplier.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 07, 2015, 01:11:42 AM
Why do I prefer to advise Governments and not Individual Companies or VCs?
 
Companies and VCs with profit motive will immediately keep all the information confidential.  This has already happened.
 
The Organizations who claim that their aim is to benefit the World do not have the deep pockets to fund the needed development.
 
Governments can print money...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 07, 2015, 09:47:31 PM
Ltseung, You are not listening to the logic of what I say.

I said that overbalance can provide the wobble, wich causes sideway translation, wich can cause tightening of squeezing of belt, for momentary traction. Big mass can be on output side and be static and input is overbalance and wobbling, or output can be wobbling, and input static, as long as gen is on the midpoint of the larger orbit as per my videos. In this way, we can extrapolate design of kanarev into pulse reciprocal overbalance.

Now you can also add magnet pulse, but my instinct tell me this must be combined, with slower more powerful oscillator, the pulse shock after the shock, as per spanish devicd wich use hydraulic.

Listen to this good practical advice.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 08, 2015, 12:45:57 AM
Presentation file as of Feb 8, 2015

The focus is now on the Unbalanced Cylinder as guided by the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 08, 2015, 02:27:03 AM
How are you so certain that it is indeed an series unbalanced cylinder and simply belt driven and daisy chained.

Where are the better pictures?

I cant see how you can interpret that picture.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 08, 2015, 09:28:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFpnsMTHgRM

Heres another legendary video for you to observe.

Imagine whatever, a magnet, a motor from beneath and pulley.

This is just the groundwork, for a superior mechanical system.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 08, 2015, 03:12:14 PM
Why do I prefer to advise Governments and not Individual Companies or VCs?
Governments can print money...
Governments are scared of doing this - illogical but true.

When talking to a government, you need to wonder what their oil tax revenues are.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 08, 2015, 03:13:56 PM
Presentation file as of Feb 8, 2015

The focus is now on the Unbalanced Cylinder as guided by the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.

All this is fine but what we really want to know is Power In and Power Out. (Not scope shots).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 08, 2015, 06:34:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFpnsMTHgRM

Heres another legendary video for you to observe.

Imagine whatever, a magnet, a motor from beneath and pulley.

This is just the groundwork, for a superior mechanical system.

You should max out the smoothing setting so you can see the results better.

Here's your idea in reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wGWB2K49So
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 08, 2015, 06:59:56 PM
Glad to see somebody got inspired by my videos.

Lol thx whos this guy hes been following along hasnt he.

A bit Russian quality tho with those small springs, probably due to lack of funds LOL.

I would do it different is possible, but he is adding his own twist to the concept, wish to see more of that.

Interresting to see, that the centrifugal motion causes secondary motion, and vice-versa, and will time naturally in a half-driven mode.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 08, 2015, 07:13:54 PM
He has a whole series of different approaches to this utilizing sympathetic oscillation. And yes, he is clearly to be applauded for his efforts in spite of the machine's less polished look.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 08, 2015, 07:38:53 PM
He will never get any power tho, from that force alone.

Its an assistance, an appetizer and desert. To be combined with other methods.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 08, 2015, 07:59:37 PM
In this experiment, we will apply the load to the second unbalance and measure the power consumption of the motor (which drives the first unbalance). Experience has shown that the increased load on the engine when creating soprativlenie rotation of the second unbalance, so we know that maintaining the rotational vibration, it's just a transfer rotation without belts and gears, and no more, the Council of Europe in this form is not !!! (I also did resistance (second unbalance shaft) in which a spring is mounted on the platform itself koleblescheysya, i.e. spring (resistance) were in the same system with CO unbalance created and braking its rotation, the load on the engine and in this case, too, increased) what does this mean - if we are on the bottom of the bucket will fix a small generator that is installed on the shaft unbalance, and then begin to sway this bucket in a circular motion in space (so that the unbalance began to rotate relative to the generator), as soon as we give the load on the generator, bucket in our hands will oppose our muscular strength, that is, as it were, to cling to the space !!! something like a paradox.


So did it work or not?

Anyways he discovered things, and is going in another rotation that my sim, but in my sims both sides are driven.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 08, 2015, 09:18:29 PM
Undriven sure works.

Simulation confirms reality :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XU9D6sf43k&feature=youtu.be

Charlie, your youtube is almost as cool as mine now :P

To set the record straight, I had 2 motors on my videos.

My idea was always reciprocal, from the center.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 09, 2015, 01:15:51 AM
How are you so certain that it is indeed an series unbalanced cylinder and simply belt driven and daisy chained.

Where are the better pictures?

I cant see how you can interpret that picture.

I shall try to recall what happened in 2006 when we were at Tsinghua University.

1.   Participants included Lee Cheung Kin (Scientist who first suggested that the pulsed pendulum would lead-out energy. Wang Shen He who developed the all Magnet Motor (Wang Motor) and myself.
2.   Andrew Wong and Chinese Partner.  They funded the 225 HP Pulse Motor Development.
3.   Four Engineers from USA who helped to develop the 225 HP Pulse Motor,
4.   Prof. Zhao and 3 research students.
5.   A person from the Military.
6.   Head of Physics Department and a Member of the Chinese Science Academy (later).

The first meeting was between 1, 4 and 5.  Lee and I gave a presentation of the Lead-out Energy Theory.  Wang talked about his Motor.  Prof. Zhao and students immediately did the 4 legged stool experiment and confirmed that we could “unconsciously” lead-out centrifugal force.

The second meeting was in late afternoon between 1, 4 and 5.  Prof. Zhao and students said that they reviewed the mathematics.  The approach was simplified but scientifically sound.  The pulsed pendulum could indeed be interpreted as leading-out some gravitational energy.  Prof. Zhao then mentioned about the eighty year old inventor who used an Energy Multiplier to get Output 30 times Input.  We got the pictures and Video at that time.  Lee and I said that we would think about it.

The third meeting was with parties 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.  The USA team made their presentation.  They frankly admitted that they produced the 225 HP Pulse Motor without understanding why.  Since Lee could not speak English, I was the one to present the Lead-out Energy Theory.  I talked about leading-out gravitational energy and how it could be extended to magnetic and electromagnetic energy. The USA team immediately called USA and told their colleagues that they found the solution.

The fourth meeting was with 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.  I applied the lead-out energy theory to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  I said that an unbalanced wheel could replace the pendulum.  The focus then turned to the implementation of the 225 HP Pulse Motor in Beijing.

Lee, Wang and I then gave a recorded lecture to the Students.  We were introduced as Guest Lecturers.

The fifth meeting was with 1 and 6 in the Hotel room.  As soon as we showed the slide on why lead-out energy devices would not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy, the meeting was stopped.  Apparently, the Head of Physics Department and team had thoroughly studied our presentations.  He was aware of the Liang Car and the Energy Multiplier.

I was absolutely convinced that the lead-out energy theory was correct.  The Liang, Wang, 225 HP Pulse Motor and Tsinghua Energy Multiplier were no hoax.  They all had sound theoretical support.  I did not realize they were "state secrets".

The episode turned political.  I was suspected as an USA spy...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 09, 2015, 10:54:03 PM
Rotating Unbalanced Cylinder will lead-out gravitational energy. Amen.

Focus on large diameter, large mass and most importantly - higher rotational speed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 10, 2015, 03:11:58 AM
Rotating Unbalanced Cylinder will lead-out gravitational energy. Amen.

Focus on large diameter, large mass and most importantly - higher rotational speed.

An extremely daring thought:

1. If an Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder can lead-out gravitational energy, every bicycle rider will be able to help in the validation of the Lead-out Energy Theory.

2. A Rider can attach a lead weight at the rim of his back bicycle wheel.  Gravitational energy will be brought-in to help him.  Theoretically, he will be able to spend less energy to cover the same journey.

3. I, a 70 year old weak person, can no long ride the bicycle to verify the theory.  Will any of the young inventors out there do it?  Amen.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 10, 2015, 05:44:29 AM
Nothing is that easy, lets be honest.

And daisy chaining wont work either, how would that be different than a normal flywheel.

Lets be real, if it was that easy it would be done by now.

Theres something about oscillating shock input, I agree, but now we must investigate methods of actually achieving that.

Methods to achieve the goal, not the goal itself.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: mdlarouche on February 10, 2015, 04:09:06 PM
Consider inelastic collisions as the closest to your description to

"Theres something about oscillating shock input, I agree, but now we must investigate methods of actually achieving that."

Inelastic collisions represent This same effect but at an atomic level.  When atoms reach the maximum travel within their space they bounce. There's no spring and no direct contact that we can see (contact could be represented by impact force)

Try looking at my comparison and make some analogies to real world scenarios.
467
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 10, 2015, 04:16:27 PM

2. A Rider can attach a lead weight at the rim of his back bicycle wheel.  Gravitational energy will be brought-in to help him.  Theoretically, he will be able to spend less energy to cover the same journey.

3. I, a 70 year old weak person, can no long ride the bicycle to verify the theory.  Will any of the young inventors out there do it? 
I am around the same age and cycle regularly. I am sure, Lawrence, that your doctor would say that it is wise to take it easy, but cycling would be good for your cardio vascular health. Subject to his/her advice, you try it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 10, 2015, 04:32:39 PM
An extremely daring thought:

2. A Rider can attach a lead weight at the rim of his back bicycle wheel.  Gravitational energy will be brought-in to help him.  Theoretically, he will be able to spend less energy to cover the same journey.


Doesn't this eliminate the 'bounce' component?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 10, 2015, 06:00:46 PM
How are we even sure that the bounce is even necessary, the centrifugal second oscillation of the midpoint has been done by Bobby only, and still we havent seen any news from him, of confirmed success.

We hav seen, 100'000's of dollars of machine building but still no video.

Do not try to find any logic in the above, Noones, you will only get confused.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 10, 2015, 06:21:59 PM
Doesn't this eliminate the 'bounce' component?
You are mixing up two ideas - the Milkovic and the Chas Chandler.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 10, 2015, 06:41:35 PM
You are mixing up two ideas - the Milkovic and the Chas Chandler.

I may have missed a response but don't know who Chas Chandler is (did you mean Campbell?). My point was that if there isn't a second degree of freedom (i.e. Milkovic, et al) l don't see any advantage or 'lead in' energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 11, 2015, 12:15:25 AM
Nothing is that easy, lets be honest.

And daisy chaining wont work either, how would that be different than a normal flywheel.

Lets be real, if it was that easy it would be done by now.

Theres something about oscillating shock input, I agree, but now we must investigate methods of actually achieving that.

Methods to achieve the goal, not the goal itself.

A balanced flywheel will store mechanical energy and smooth out the rotational speed.  It will not oscillate to lead-out gravitational energy.

An unbalanced wheel is essentially a flywheel with an additional weight attached to the rim.  It will store mechanical energy. It will produced the oscillation motion to lead-out gravitational energy.



The number of oscillation is once per revolution.  Engineers in the past automatically dismissed unbalanced wheel or cylinder because of the vibration or shaking that would "destroy" the structure.  They did not realize that they could lead-out gravitational energy. 

Please see the Chan Wheels videos on Youtube.  Focus on the comparison - balanced bicycle wheel will not lift the weight no matter the rotational speed.  Unbalanced bicycle easily reproduced the Milkovic effect...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 11, 2015, 12:30:20 AM
I may have missed a response but don't know who Chas Chandler is (did you mean Campbell?). My point was that if there isn't a second degree of freedom (i.e. Milkovic, et al) l don't see any advantage or 'lead in' energy.

In your video (and many others), you found that the Input Energy seemed to decrease after rotating the unbalanced wheel.  If you pulse (or supply energy) to a pendulum, the amplitude of oscillation will increase.
The Lee-Tseung lead-out energy states that some gravitational energy is actually brought-in to provide the increase.  For small angles, two parts of the energy is the supplied pulse energy.  One part is the lead-out or brought-in gravitational energy.

If you supply energy to an unbalanced wheel, it will rotate faster.  At the same time, it will lead-out gravitational energy to make the rotation even faster.  I have not worked out the ratio yet...  The difficulty lies in the rotational friction.  If that is reduced, both balanced and unbalanced flywheels rotate freely independent of the weight of the wheel.

In the case of the unbalanced wheel, supplying more Input Energy may increase the shaking and destroy the device.  (Dr. Ting was very upset when his wheel axle was twisted.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 11, 2015, 12:31:06 AM
A balanced flywheel will store mechanical energy and smooth out the rotational speed.  It will not oscillate to lead-out gravitational energy.

An unbalanced wheel is essentially a flywheel with an additional weight attached to the rim.  It will store mechanical energy. It will produced the oscillation motion to lead-out gravitational energy.



The number of oscillation is once per revolution.  Engineers in the past automatically dismissed unbalanced wheel or cylinder because of the vibration or shaking that would "destroy" the structure.  They did not realize that they could lead-out gravitational energy. 

Please see the Chan Wheels videos on Youtube.  Focus on the comparison - balanced bicycle wheel will not lift the weight no matter the rotational speed.  Unbalanced bicycle easily reproduced the Milkovic effect...

But again, this only works if there is more than one degree of freedom. For instance, the Chan wheel would lift absolutely nothing and be totally useless if it was not allowed to fall. An unbalanced flywheel does nothing without a second degree of freedom.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 11, 2015, 12:37:10 AM
In your video (and many others), you found that the Input Energy seemed to decrease after rotating the unbalanced wheel.  If you pulse (or supply energy) to a pendulum, the amplitude of oscillation will increase.
The Lee-Tseung lead-out energy states that some gravitational energy is actually brought-in to provide the increase.  For small angles, two parts of the energy is the supplied pulse energy.  One part is the lead-out or brought-in gravitational energy.

If you supply energy to an unbalanced wheel, it will rotate faster.  At the same time, it will lead-out gravitational energy to make the rotation even faster.  I have not worked out the ratio yet...  The difficulty lies in the rotational friction.  If that is reduced, both balanced and unbalanced flywheels rotate freely independent of the weight of the wheel.

In that particular video, there was 2 degrees of freedom for the unbalance weight.
Not to sound like a broken record, but without that second degree of freedom you do not maximize the effect. Do you agree?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 11, 2015, 12:45:45 AM
But again, this only works if there is more than one degree of freedom. For instance, the Chan wheel would lift absolutely nothing and be totally useless if it was not allowed to fall. An unbalanced flywheel does nothing without a second degree of freedom.

You are correct in pointing out the "second degree of freedom".  I attributed the shaking as a "second degree of freedom".  If not properly used or released, this second degree of freedom may destroy the device.

Both the Milkovic and Chan wheels use lifting weights to use or release the energy.

The Pulse Wheels such as Wang, Tong and Ting wheels use external loads to release the energy.  The Chas Campbell and the Tsinghua Energy Multiplier use another Generator to use or drain out the energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 11, 2015, 04:22:43 PM
I may have missed a response but don't know who Chas Chandler is (did you mean Campbell?)
Yes, I did. Sorry. (Chas Chandler was the bass player of "The Animals").
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 11, 2015, 08:45:59 PM
Let us focus back on the experiment suggested in reply 2581.
 
That single experiment will confirm the Lead-out Energy Theory and provide practical energy to power electrical appliances.
 
The theory is simple.  Unbalanced Cylinder will lead-out gravitational energy.
 
It is a matter of matching the right motor, unbalanced wheel, belt or chain, generator and achieving the right rotational speed.  The best strategy is to have government support and work with Motor/Generator manufacturers or suppliers.
 
Einput + Egravity = Eloss + Eout
 
Eout = Ein + (Egravity - Eloss) 
 
So long as Egravity is greater than Eloss, Output Power will be greater than Input Power.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: AB Hammer on February 12, 2015, 12:57:19 AM
 ltseung888 (http://overunity.com/profile/ltseung888.3463/)One thing you need to remember.  With the unbalances cylinder. You are also going to get a tremendous amount of vibration that can shake the whole machine apart.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 12, 2015, 01:15:31 AM
For what its worth, here's a screen shot of a 2D simulation of two identical rotors. One with an unbalanced weight and one without. They both exhibit the exact same total energy, which is the sum of both kinetic and potential energies.

There doesn't appear to be any advantage to the unbalanced wheel in a static configuration.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 12, 2015, 01:55:07 AM
I think Chalkalis tried that in real life with large weight, he never came through with a OU claim, but it did move continuously.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 12, 2015, 08:01:24 AM
For what its worth, here's a screen shot of a 2D simulation of two identical rotors. One with an unbalanced weight and one without. They both exhibit the exact same total energy, which is the sum of both kinetic and potential energies.

There doesn't appear to be any advantage to the unbalanced wheel in a static configuration.

I do not believe in simulation.  It does not predict lead-out energy in any situation.  I believe the assumptions made in the program rule out lead-out energy.
 
We either have to re-write the simulation program or believe in real experiments.
 
We can all see the lifting of weights in the Milovic 2SO with the pendulum.  We can all see the lifting of weights in the Chan Wheel.  There must be something wrong with the simulation program if it cannot predict the observations...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 12, 2015, 08:09:31 AM
I think Chalkalis tried that in real life with large weight, he never came through with a OU claim, but it did move continuously.

Chalkalis spent his time playing with heavier weights and their distribution.  He would have been better off using Unbalanced Cylinders and focus on the more important element - rotational speed.  Chas Campbell did better but he used balanced wheels.  The unbalancing was achieved via belts and possibly bad machining.
 
Tsinghua University did the right thing and got the best result (30 times increase in Input Energy) via fast rotating Unbalanced Cylinders.  That configuation can power not just one machine but the entire factory.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 12, 2015, 04:47:31 PM

I do not believe in simulation.  It does not predict lead-out energy in any situation.  I believe the assumptions made in the program rule out lead-out energy.
 
Yes, their equations assume conventional Physics.

It would be interesting to put a Bedini SG under such scrutiny and ask the manufacturers to explain the discrepancies.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 12, 2015, 04:52:40 PM

I do not believe in simulation.  It does not predict lead-out energy in any situation.  I believe the assumptions made in the program rule out lead-out energy.
 
We either have to re-write the simulation program or believe in real experiments.
 
We can all see the lifting of weights in the Milovic 2SO with the pendulum.  We can all see the lifting of weights in the Chan Wheel.  There must be something wrong with the simulation program if it cannot predict the observations...

Here's another snapshot of two unbalanced wheels. One is static and the other in the Milkovic/Chan configuration. I've added a spring as the load.

With a second degree of freedom, we can start to see the energy gain over a static unbalanced wheel. Notice the highlighted difference in N/sec with the one on the right which shows the averaged N/sec over time:
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 12, 2015, 06:01:44 PM
Just a comment on 2D simulation programs. I have been burned many times assuming my build results would emulate what was shown in the simulation. Let's just say that I would never bet my life savings on the predicted numerical results. :)

That being said, the program is beneficial when comparing one design against another (apples to apples) like when you change one parameter to see what impact it has.

In the two examples that I've shown, if you reject the first, then you must also reject the second. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 12, 2015, 09:28:04 PM
Just a comment on 2D simulation programs. I have been burned many times assuming my build results would emulate what was shown in the simulation. Let's just say that I would never bet my life savings on the predicted numerical results. :)

That being said, the program is beneficial when comparing one design against another (apples to apples) like when you change one parameter to see what impact it has.

In the two examples that I've shown, if you reject the first, then you must also reject the second. :)

Can you use the 2D simulation program on an unbalanced Chan wheel?  If the Milokovic 2SO has energy gain, the Chan Wheel (unbalanced wheel) should do much better.
 
Can we compare the result of a pendulum with that of an unbalanced wheel?
 
I also believe that the torque comparison between a balanced wheel and an unbalanced wheel in the first case may be wrong.  An unbalanced wheel must produce a varying torque?
 
(I never used the 2D program.  One engineer told me years ago that the 2D program never predicted any energy gain.  Now you have shown otherwise?  He probably never thought of second degree of freedom.)
 
Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 12, 2015, 09:49:03 PM
Just a comment on 2D simulation programs. I have been burned many times assuming my build results would emulate what was shown in the simulation. Let's just say that I would never bet my life savings on the predicted numerical results. :)

That being said, the program is beneficial when comparing one design against another (apples to apples) like when you change one parameter to see what impact it has.

In the two examples that I've shown, if you reject the first, then you must also reject the second. :)

Can you show the effect of 2 to N wheels on the same axle?  That would simulate the unbalanced cylinder...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 12, 2015, 10:04:31 PM

Can you show the effect of 2 to N wheels on the same axle?  That would simulate the unbalanced cylinder...

Not that I know of, assuming they are all on the same center-line and rotating independently. One of the drawbacks to 2D.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 12, 2015, 10:21:20 PM
I've increased the weight to 10kg on the fixed wheel and you can now see the variability in the angular velocity. So its there, just not very pronounced. Increasing the weight and/or speed would show greater variability. The graphs show angular kinetic energy for each wheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 13, 2015, 01:09:53 AM
I've increased the weight to 10kg on the fixed wheel and you can now see the variability in the angular velocity. So its there, just not very pronounced. Increasing the weight and/or speed would show greater variability. The graphs show angular kinetic energy for each wheel.

Very interesting.  Please show the effect of doubling the rotational speed.  This is supposed to be the key element in leading-out gravitational energy (varies as the square).
 
Thank you.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 13, 2015, 01:54:42 AM
Doubling the speed of both wheels results in the fixed wheel developing twice the energy. Interesting.

I don't know how long the bearings would last with this punishment though.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 13, 2015, 02:19:35 PM
Meetings at Hong Kong University.
 
Prof. "I got your email.  It looks like you have made much progress."
 
Tseung: "The technical evaluators from two separate Venture Capital groups did some tests.  They indicated that the Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder might indeed lead-out gravitational energy.  However, they are unlikely to disclose the details as the information has commercial value."
 
Prof. "What can I do for you."
 
Tseung: "I have contacts claiming that they could put down some research funding.  They are wealthy individuals.  Donating HK$1 million is within their capability.  They asked me whether I could find a team to further develop the Lead-out Energy Technology."
 
Prof: "I may be able to find some students or research students after May.  Can you wait?"
 
Tseung: "The lead-out energy theory has been out for over 10 years.  A few more months will not make much difference.  I shall also meet one of the research students who said that he would like to work on the project."
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 13, 2015, 02:55:06 PM
Meeting with the Research Student.
 
Student: "I am glad to meet the person himself.  I read the lead-out energy theory and I am excited."
 
Tseung: "Tell me more about your background."
 
Student: "I graduated from Tsinghua University and is continuing my higher degree at Hong Kong University.  I first learned the lead-out energy theory at Tsinghua University from a recorded lecture."
 
Tseung: "Have you worked with or have you seen the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier?"
 
Student: "I heard about it but I have not personally worked on it."
 
Tseung: "We are thinking of doing the experiment with a motor driving an unbalanced cylinder to lead-out gravitational energy.  The setup will then drive a generator.  We hope to demonstrate that the lead-out gravitational energy is large enough to overcome all losses.  We can then conclusively demonstrate that we can use the lead-out energy to power other electrical appliances and may even self-loop."
 
Student: "I am aware of that.  I would like to have an opportunity to take on the challenge."
 
Tseung: "I shall work with the professor and the funders on the details.  I shall keep you informed."
 
The going rate to employ a summer student is HK$3,000 per month; for a new graduate is HK$15,000.  We expect much ground work will be done before May.  The actual prototype(s) will then commence and would complete within 3 months.
 
The Chan Wheel took 2 months and the total cost was HK$20,000 including rent, wasted material, travel, meals etc.  (Labor and brain - the most expensive items - were free.)
 
It reproduced the Milkovic 2SO effect in lifting the weight.  It further showed that a balanced wheel would not lift the weight.  It proved or hinted that the unbalnced wheel with the centrigual force generating the oscillation would lead-out gravitational energy.  The money and time spent was worthwhile.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 13, 2015, 07:32:49 PM
Let us focus back on the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.
 
I believe that there should be a belt tightening mechanism.  When Motor A starts, the rotation speed will be slow.  Not much gravitational energy will be brought-in.  When Motor A increases in speed, larger torque and some mechanical energy will be brought-in and stored via the Unbalanced Cylinder.
 
The belt can then be tightened to drive the second axle and the Generator.  What kind of mechanisms are available?
 
Eout = Ein + (Egravity - Eloss) 
 
Can we make Egravity much greater than Eloss?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 14, 2015, 01:38:29 AM
The attached information is being sent out both via email and hard copy to as many people as possible in Hong Kong and China.  You are welcome to help to spread the information to the rest of the World.
 
Hopefully, enough interest will be generated in the academic, business, engineering and political circles before May 2015.
 
Real prototypes that will be open sourced to the World are likely to start in May.  For-profit organizations have started work.
 
The Divine Wine is for all to share.
 
Unbalanced Wheels or Cylinders can lead-out gravitational energy in appropriate conditions.
 
Eout = Ein + (Egravity - Eloss) 
 
Can we make Egravity much greater than Eloss?

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 14, 2015, 05:09:06 PM
The attached information is being sent out both via email and hard copy to as many people as possible in Hong Kong and China.
 
Can we make Egravity much greater than Eloss?
Not without understanding what Egravity is, how it happens, where it comes from and why it happens.

I have asked in the past and never received any sort of answer that I found useful.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 14, 2015, 10:14:00 PM
The fixed vs moving varies depending on placement and spring constant.

It certainly would be easier to have a fixed frame.

And Chas Campbell had a fixed frame wheel, balanced I believe, or the eccentric was well hidden. He also had a bouncing wheel that landed on the ''squeeze wheel''

I did an observationnal anaylsis of the Chas Campbell in this video, see the jpeg file attached in the comment section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_PQ32tMQ0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 14, 2015, 11:21:44 PM
I couldn't get your filedropper page to load???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 15, 2015, 12:34:07 AM
no, the mediafire works.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 15, 2015, 12:39:32 AM
I shall modify the Chas Campbell device according to the Lead-out Energy Theory.
 
I believe that he got his device via tinkering.  He could have produced the unbalancing effect via poor machining or belt shaking.
 
The attached diagram shows the possible modification.  The important part is actually the Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder mounted vertically.
 
The configuration is then closer to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 15, 2015, 12:51:48 AM
It seems pretty deliberate to me, since he releases the holder.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 15, 2015, 03:38:33 AM
I shall modify the Chas Campbell device according to the Lead-out Energy Theory.
 
I believe that he got his device via tinkering.  He could have produced the unbalancing effect via poor machining or belt shaking.
 
The attached diagram shows the possible modification.  The important part is actually the Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder mounted vertically.
 
The configuration is then closer to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier...

I am going to take a shot on specifying the Unbalanced Cylinder.  The outer diameter will be 30 cm.  The cylinder height will be 20 cm.  The total weight will be 10 Kg.  The unbalanced bar will be 2 kg.
 
I do not have any magic formula yet.  The above suggestion is "a shot in the dark". 
 
Morality Point:
 
When the theory cannot predict the exact dimensions, spend resources on experiments.  Every experiment will provide more data.  If every step in the dark is charted, even the blind will find the way...
 
The "state secrets" of China and USA may already have all the data.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 15, 2015, 04:08:03 AM
The important part is actually the Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder mounted vertically.
 
The configuration is then closer to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier...

Why do you say that it must be mounted vertically? Is there some reason why horizontally mounted wouldn't work? Just curious.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 15, 2015, 06:43:54 AM
Why do you say that it must be mounted vertically? Is there some reason why horizontally mounted wouldn't work? Just curious.
 
For pure gravitational lead-out energy devices, the oscillation comes from the jumping effect.  Or we can think of the Centrifugal force in an Unbalanced Wheel.  That force will change the effective force downwards simulating the jumping action.
 
If mounted horizontally, the centrifugal force will be horizontal and no jumping action will result.
 
(The Liang car was reported to lose power rapidly going up an incline.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 15, 2015, 06:30:20 PM
Why do you say that it must be mounted vertically? Is there some reason why horizontally mounted wouldn't work? Just curious.
 
For pure gravitational lead-out energy devices, the oscillation comes from the jumping effect.  Or we can think of the Centrifugal force in an Unbalanced Wheel.  That force will change the effective force downwards simulating the jumping action.
 
If mounted horizontally, the centrifugal force will be horizontal and no jumping action will result.
 
(The Liang car was reported to lose power rapidly going up an incline.)

I guess that's where my confusion come in. If these cylinders are mounted in fixed bearings, where will the 'jumping action' come from?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 15, 2015, 10:44:46 PM
I shall modify the Chas Campbell device according to the Lead-out Energy Theory.
 
I believe that he got his device via tinkering.  He could have produced the unbalancing effect via poor machining or belt shaking.
 
The attached diagram shows the possible modification.  The important part is actually the Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder mounted vertically.
 
The configuration is then closer to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier...
This is what you try to accomplish:
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 15, 2015, 10:52:54 PM
I guess that's where my confusion come in. If these cylinders are mounted in fixed bearings, where will the 'jumping action' come from?

Must the cylinders be mounted in fixed bearings? Is it possible for the belt or chain mechanism to introduce some room for vibration or oscillation?
 
If such oscillations lead-out gravitational energy, can the Tsinghua University energy multiplier or Chas Campbell setup transfer such lead-out energy to the Generator (keeping the amplitude of such oscillations very low)?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 15, 2015, 10:55:43 PM

Must the cylinders be mounted in fixed bearings? Is it possible for the belt or chain mechanism to introduce some room for vibration or oscillation?
 
If such oscillations lead-out gravitational energy, can the Tsinghua University energy multiplier or Chas Campbell setup transfer such lead-out energy to the Generator (keeping the amplitude of such oscillations very low)?

Lawrence:

But the Chas Campbell device did not work when Mark D. went to evaluate it?  You are speaking as if it did indeed work.  If you have other information to this effect, please let us know.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 15, 2015, 10:58:41 PM
This is what you try to accomplish:

NO.  I want to lead-out gravitational energy via the unbalanced cylinder.  I want to use standard, commercially available motors and generators.  The equation is
 
Eout = Ein + (Egravity - Eloss)
 
I want to get a large amount of Egravity via the fast rotating unbalanced cylinder.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 15, 2015, 11:05:26 PM

NO.  I want to lead-out gravitational energy via the unbalanced cylinder.  I want to use standard, commercially available motors and generators.  The equation is
 
Eout = Ein + (Egravity - Eloss)
 
I want to get a large amount of Egravity via the fast rotating unbalanced cylinder.

But Lawrence, the unbalanced cylinder will have the effect of needing more energy to rotate until the heavy point reaches 12:00, and then you can get "extra" energy as it rotates beyond this point.  However, you will not get more energy than it took to rotate the unbalanced cylinder to the 12:00 position...less due to friction.

How is this a way to "lead out" free energy due to gravity?

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 15, 2015, 11:17:50 PM
Lawrence:

But the Chas Campbell device did not work when Mark D. went to evaluate it?  You are speaking as if it did indeed work.  If you have other information to this effect, please let us know.

Bill

I do not think that Mark D or Chas Campbell understood the lead-out energy theory.  They might even tried to "do better engineering" and eliminated the "unbalancing".
 
A group in Hong Kong did exactly that.  I had to tell them to re-introduce bad engineering and do the unbalancing...  They did not talk to me again.
 
Tsinghua University did the right thing.  That might be the "state secret" that ended me in trouble 8 years ago.  Now many others "found" the secret by "tinkering".  There is no point in keeping the "state secret".
 
(Lee Cheung Kin told me repeatedly that what I am doing is kindergarden work compared with what has been developed in the Military Establishments in China. He never told me what was achieved there but he was right.)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 15, 2015, 11:29:34 PM
But Lawrence, the unbalanced cylinder will have the effect of needing more energy to rotate until the heavy point reaches 12:00, and then you can get "extra" energy as it rotates beyond this point.  However, you will not get more energy than it took to rotate the unbalanced cylinder to the 12:00 position...less due to friction.

How is this a way to "lead out" free energy due to gravity?

Bill

Build yourself a Chan Wheel.  Balance it.  You will not lift the Weight no matter what speed you rotate it.  You can pump as much energy as you like into it.
 
Unbalance it.  You will be able to lift the weight easily the Milkovic 2SO style. 
 
Go for full rotations.  Observe the much greater height lifted in some "random" times.  This is similar to the effect of pushing the swing randomly.
 
Rotate the unbalanced cylinder faster.  You will find Egavity.  When the rotation is too slow, Egravity will not be greater than Eloss.
 
I believe the rpm should be at least 300 before the Egravity effect is clearly observed.
 
*** you should also note that many reported LESS input power was needed after the unbalanced arm started rotating at a steady (resonance?) speed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 16, 2015, 03:15:25 AM
The modified Chas Campbell system.

The components may be moved to adjust the tension of the belts.

Need to specified the frame structure.  Later.

The concept is getting clearer.

Can we bring-in enough Egravity with this setup?

Hopefully, the shaking will be limited to the Unbalanced Cylinder.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 16, 2015, 04:00:21 AM
From Patrick Kelly's Book.

I am not surprised if Chas Campbell tried the self run. With tinkering, it may work some of the time. 

With the Tsinghua setup and the Lead-out energy to back up, it will work all the time.

I like Patrick's words:

Where excess energy is flowing in from the local environment.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 16, 2015, 04:26:18 AM

Must the cylinders be mounted in fixed bearings? Is it possible for the belt or chain mechanism to introduce some room for vibration or oscillation?
 
If such oscillations lead-out gravitational energy, can the Tsinghua University energy multiplier or Chas Campbell setup transfer such lead-out energy to the Generator (keeping the amplitude of such oscillations very low)?

The bearings must be fixed or they would never survive. If the bolts holding the bearings, are even slightly loose the vibrations will fatigue the metal and they will fail in a short period of time. I know from personal experience.

Its possible I suppose to mount the cylinder on fixed bearings which are securely bolted to a solid, highly sprung platform. This is the only way that I can see this working.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 16, 2015, 11:56:38 PM
I have been thinking about the best way to explain the concept of lead-out energy.
 
The diagram is one of the attempts.
 
This time, I approach it from the Raymond Head video on the Milkovic 2SO.  The focus is on the force due to rotation.  The force due to rotation will change the tension in the string and is often referred to as the centripetal or centrifugal force.
 
In the explanation, we just treat this force as contributing to the tension of the string.  It may increase the tension or decrease the tension.
 
Increasing the tension can be thought of as increasing the weight.  Decreasig the tension can be thought of as decreasing the weight.  In other words, the object falls down with greater weight and bounces up with less weight.  This will make the object rise higher with each bounce (the trampoline effect?)  This will surely lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.
 
The lead-out gravitational energy is dependent on the force.  The factors affecting the force are mass, radius and angular velocity.  The angular velocity (or rotational speed) is the most important.
 
The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is the best implementation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 17, 2015, 11:28:20 AM
Another attempt to explain Lead-out energy using the example of Milkovic 2SO.
 
Let us view the device from the outside.
 
The potential energy gained by the lifted weight on the LHS = m1gh1.  Part of this gained energy must be used to return the pendulum setup to its original position.
 
The potential energy required to return the pendulum setup to it original position = m2gh2
 
Thus the net energy gained per oscillation is m1gh1 - m2gh2.
 
The design of the best Milkovic 2SO should be small m2 and small h2.  If h1=h2, then m2 should be much smaller than m1.  With the static setup, when m1 is greater than m2, m1 will not be lifted.  It requires the dynamic motion when the Centrifugal Force added to m2g is greater than m1g for the weight m1 to be lifted. 
 
This happens at large angle of swing and/or long pendulum string.
 
The Chan wheel is superior in that the radius (string equivalent) can be fixed and the angular velocity (rotational speed) can be increased.
 
noonespecial is right.  The Chan Wheel does need some movement (second degree of motion) to show the energy gain.  Varying the force by itself will not do any work.  Work or energy = force x displacement.  The displacement can be in one direction or can oscillate (move in two directions).  The displacement can also be transferred into circular motion as in the case of the Tsinghua University or Chas Campbell Energy Multiplier.
 
Hope the explanations make the Lead-out energy theory clearer...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on February 17, 2015, 11:57:12 AM
Another attempt to explain Lead-out energy using the example of Milkovic 2SO.
 
Let us view the device from the outside.
Better yet, account for all the starting state energy and all the energy at any subsequent state.  If you do the measurements and math correctly, none of the subsequent states exceed the total energy at the starting state.  The energy will in fact be less at each step due to heat losses to the environment.

You can shift your coins from one pocket to another as many times as you like and you never end up with more total money.  Eventually your pockets wear out and the coins "lead out".

Morality point:  Bad accounting leads-out incorrect answers.
Quote

The potential energy gained by the lifted weight on the LHS = m1gh1.  Part of this gained energy must be used to return the pendulum setup to its original position.
 
The potential energy required to return the pendulum setup to it original position = m2gh2
 
Thus the net energy gained per oscillation is m1gh1 - m2gh2.
 
The design of the best Milkovic 2SO should be small m2 and small h2.  If h1=h2, then m2 should be much smaller than m1.  With the static setup, when m1 is greater than m2, m1 will not be lifted.  It requires the dynamic motion when the Centrifugal Force added to m2g is greater than m1g for the weight m1 to be lifted. 
Here you have conflated force and energy.  If you do not keep your terms straight, you will never get the accounting right.
Quote

This happens at large angle of swing and/or long pendulum string.
 
The Chan wheel is superior in that the radius (string equivalent) can be fixed and the angular velocity (rotational speed) can be increased.
 
noonespecial is right.  The Chan Wheel does need some movement (second degree of motion) to show the energy gain.  Varying the force by itself will not do any work.  Work or energy = force x displacement.  The displacement can be in one direction or can oscillate (move in two directions).  The displacement can also be transferred into circular motion as in the case of the Tsinghua University or Chas Campbell Energy Multiplier.
 
Hope the explanations make the Lead-out energy theory clearer...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 17, 2015, 12:07:07 PM
From Patrick Kelly's Book.

I am not surprised if Chas Campbell tried the self run. With tinkering, it may work some of the time. 

With the Tsinghua setup and the Lead-out energy to back up, it will work all the time.

I like Patrick's words:

Where excess energy is flowing in from the local environment.

In the diagram of reply 2648, note the comment that the belt was not fully tight.  This provides the unbalancing oscillation.  I do not think that it is the best arrangement.  It makes replication almost impossible.  It also makes moving the equipment around (re-assemble) very difficult.  We had the same experience with the Tong Wheel.  It required much tuning.  When it was transported and re-assembled, it did not always work.  Much tuning was required.
 
That may explain why Mark D did not see the Chas Campbell results in his visit.
 
The unbalanced wheel or cylinder is much better.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 18, 2015, 12:19:06 AM
The improved and modified Tsinghua or Chas Campbell experiment.
 
We can add the self-run feature to the experiment.  When the Generator is running full speed, switch AC power supply to the Generator.  Then run the load for at least 2 weeks.
 
Then announce to the World.  Tsinghua University obviously will get most of the credit - especially if the experiment is done or announced at Tsinghua.
 
I expect the experiment will work.  Much data will be generated.  The Unbalanced Cylinder will get Worldwide Scientific attention.
 
Many for-profit organizations will use the self-run feature to promote packaged products...
 
Tesla Motors (and other electric car manufacturers) will have self-charging cars.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on February 18, 2015, 12:47:38 AM
Hi Lawrence,

Instead of lifting weight, displace it in a balanced center seeking system. Much like rocking a boat.

Attached (zip) is a sim of a balanced system, unbalanced through centripetal force. The cone spins while the heavy cylinder is free to whip around inside.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 18, 2015, 01:25:32 AM
The Chas Campbell debate is an interresting one.

But Mark D  is not in the know, his only source of information was Ashtweth and Ashtweth was gone after the Chas Campbell debate.

There is many systems out there that ressemble the Campbell device, some have build them bigger and bigger indicating to me that something is worth investing in.

He used an bouncing wheel as an oscillating sytem, wich is an interresting idea.

Other than that, the ideas I have put forward in my YT are some of the best.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 18, 2015, 04:21:18 AM

He used an bouncing wheel as an oscillating sytem, wich is an interresting idea.

How do you know this? Is it disclosed somewhere?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 18, 2015, 08:02:01 AM

NO.  I want to lead-out gravitational energy via the unbalanced cylinder.  I want to use standard, commercially available motors and generators.  The equation is
 
Eout = Ein + (Egravity - Eloss)
 
I want to get a large amount of Egravity via the fast rotating unbalanced cylinder.
I assume you already know more than well that gravity cannot provide energy in a closed system.
So how do you want to accomplish excess energy output, or some how increase efficiency using gravity?
I don't understand, because as soon as you get viberations in the unbalanced flywheel, or what you use to "assist" energy output, the wheel does not follow a circular motion, but transfer its loss into mechanical viberations instead, and will therfor cause a mechanical phase shift that will try to stop the wheel from rotating.


Try this simple experiment:
Find a small electro motor, and put an unbalanced flywheel on it. Hand held, this motor will viberate when it runs and RPM will drop compared to if you fasten the motor in a heavy duty vise for example. Viberations will cause the motor to fight against mass "displacement" all the time, but instead transfer that lost efficiency into viberations.


What I can see from the original sketch, there is nothing but lots of loss in the system, making your device very little efficient.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 18, 2015, 10:18:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6q_l6FpacU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Z1S_1GlxA

He taps into the power used by these humans, humans are smart enough to not repeat and invest much money into something that bring nothing to them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He is inputting energy by pulse, does he not release the holder  @ 39 seconds, is the Wheel not free turning @ 14 seconds.

Now Ive heard alot of crap comments but never have I seen or read the exact reason why he releases the holder.

Now we know, from our sims, that we get a secondary oscillation, could this no be used in an opportunistic fashion to connect and disconnect the driving Wheel
that sits on the wooden frame, free floating wooden frame.

Do not listen to comments, observe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Z1S_1GlxA

He first brings the Wheel to speed, then turns the screw then releases the holder, then loads the generator.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 18, 2015, 02:13:25 PM
I think you forgot the Chas Campbell video... :)

Doesn't matter. I've seen it several times. Releasing the latch and tightening the clamp seems to be activating belt tensioners that may need to be inactivated to get it started.

I've heard it theorized that one (or more) of the wheels contain lead shot that will congregate after a certain speed and create the imbalance but this has never been proven.

There are several replications on youtube using only pulleys so where is the imbalance on those devices?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 18, 2015, 06:36:59 PM
http://www.overunity.com/14655/1939-gravity-power-multiply-power-by-1200/450/#.VOTMrE10y70

In this thread I go into eyeballing

That thread makes me laugh so much, all those idiots were so wrong, and we tried to explain things logically, but then idiots started ranting vs us as usual Charlie.

You are right, the eccentric is not there in those réplications, I can count 4 réplications where no visible eccentric is noticeable on the Wheels.

2 by valy energy stars with redesigned tensionner, turkey, black frame , and another from indonesia, there may be some similarities in the paladium and indian industrial device and spanish device and company by the cia guy.

whatever it is, its something worth the investment in flywheels turkey device is huge.

clearly this is legitimate.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on February 18, 2015, 08:57:32 PM
People, you can watch this Milkovic's video and see that the rotations and transmissions are energetic disaster!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6xLglhs3rs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6xLglhs3rs)

You can check yourself too.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 18, 2015, 09:56:19 PM
In this video, Chas explains the purpose of the loose belts. Its pretty much what I thought....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-yaVK9wlk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 19, 2015, 03:31:18 AM
Checking on the cost of doing the Tsinghua Unversity Energy Multiplier experiment in Hong Kong.
 
The two electric motors (one 1HP ad the other 3HP) would cost not more than HKD5,000.  An arrangement can be made with the retail shop to swap various models in the experiments. The estimated price is for two top end models with the option to swap down.  The estimated total cost assuming no damage to the swap machines is HKD8,000.
 
The Unbalanced Cylinder with 30cm diameter, 20cm height, 2 Kg unbalaced weight and 10 kg total weight cannot be purchased.  It has to be customer made.  There will be no return or refund.  The estimated price is HKD20,000.  Three Unbalanced Cylinder with different dimensions may be needed to get the final result.  The total cost is HKD60,000.
 
The accessories such as belts, pulleys, frame etc. are estimate to cost HKD8,000.
 
The estimate labor cost (graduate students) at 3 persons for 3 months and use of University Laboratory space and equipment for testing is estimated at HKD300,000.  This can be reduced somewhat if this becomes a "joint project".
 
Thus a rough estimate of the total cost of the project is HKD376,000.  To be on the safe side, a budget of HKD500,000 should be set aside for this project. (approximately USD65,000 depending on exchange rate).
 
We can take our time to raise this amount.  The proposal to set up the Innovation and Technology Department in Hong Kong failed.  If that were successful, the average grant was estimated to be HKD2.5 million.
 
There are many super wealthy individuals in Hong Kong.  It is a matter of convincing at least one of them to "donate" such a sum to benefit the World.  Some regularly donate millions to the Universities in Hong Kong and China. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 19, 2015, 04:10:36 AM
Be sure to think of me Ltseung.

But me I do only private work for cash.

I am the best researcher for the job, me and Charlie will take it to the limit.

But I can do all research myself, I have multi adaptable frame in mind.

For such a price you can gladly join our team as equal partner.

Engineering mechanical and electrical done by me free.

Wish to pay when?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 19, 2015, 07:09:40 AM
Be sure to think of me Ltseung.

But me I do only private work for cash.

I am the best researcher for the job, me and Charlie will take it to the limit.

But I can do all research myself, I have multi adaptable frame in mind.

For such a price you can gladly join our team as equal partner.

Engineering mechanical and electrical done by me free.

Wish to pay when?

Expect Governments and Private Entities to pour in resources similar to the development of the Internet.
 
(I wrote one of the first email demo programs on DECnet in the 1970s.)

I do not want to use my limited retirement resources to fund the project but I am happy to influence others.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 19, 2015, 10:31:55 AM
         Today is the Chinese New Year of the Ram.  The Ram or the Sheep is a symbol of peace and harmony.  My personal wish is for one or more of the groups to advance the Lead-out Energy Products to benefit the World.
 
The various I am aware of “already mastered the Lead-out Energy Theory” include:
 
1.  Tsinghua University.  They learned the Unbalanced Cylinder Energy Multiplier from the old Inventor who used it to provide power to his factory.  The lead-out gravitational energy was 30 times the supplied electrical energy.  That provided enough power for the entire factory.
 
2. Chinese and USA Military.  They both heard the Lead-out Energy Theory from Mr. Lee Cheung Kin and me in 2006.  They knew the 225 HP Pulse Motor.  They treated that as “top secret” but will they disclose this secret?
 
3.  Private groups in Hong Kong who were involved with the Tong and Ting Wheels.  They are for-profit.  They may not have the funding but the Taiwan Group already announced that they are developing a product.  I presented the Lead-out Energy Theory in an Invention Show in Taiwan in 2007.  A Taiwan Group helped to fund the Liang Car. 
 
4.  An Electricity Company Owner.  The owner learned the Lead-out Energy Theory from me.  He immediately asked his engineers to check out the Unbalanced Wheel.  He will disclose the results together with his product.
 
5.  One of the largest Venture Capital Groups in the World.  They had their Chief Scientist listen to my presentation.  The Scientist phoned his team to test the Unbalanced Wheel.  He told my contact that they were very interested but they were in it for money only.
 
6.  One of the top Electric Car Companies in USA.  They “bought out” the Company who learned the lead-out energy theory from me.  The rumor was that they saw a demo that ran for two weeks continuously without power supply or battery.
 
7.  University Contacts.  At least one of them mentioned that they would investigate the project with or without external funding.
 
8.  Government Officials or Political Groups with strong government contact.  They think that they can influence Governments.
 
9.  Wealthy individuals with net worth in billions of HKD.   
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 19, 2015, 03:00:04 PM
I worked for DEC from 1972 to 1990. Small world.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 19, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
I worked for DEC from 1972 to 1990. Small world.

You must be at retirement age as well.  How can you retain steady hands and great eyesight to produce those wonderful prototypes on youtube?
 
DEC was a miracle in those days.  Can we produce another miracle with the Lead-out Energy today?  Just change the gravity arm to Unbalanced Cylinder and drive a Generator...
 
I did not include you in the 9 groups.  Sorry for the omission...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 19, 2015, 04:08:27 PM
Tell the millionnaires about me

All those groups are expensive to hire, me I'm cheap to hire.

In any situation, I will go deep in design research and navigate correctly.

I can design on many programs now and have all machined myself, + I will build homemade sensors to see effect.

I need, 10,000-15,000$ , I estimate that with this I can fuly test many designs.

All will be fully accountable and only directed to research.

Cost will be absolutely bare minimum, no engineer fee only material and machine time.

organize this plz, this is not a scam, you will get your money Worth of research and time devoted.

I will gladly sign dotted line where my assasination is immediate if money is funneled to other things.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 19, 2015, 06:09:09 PM

You must be at retirement age as well.  How can you retain steady hands and great eyesight to produce those wonderful prototypes on youtube?

I owe it all to good, clean living... ;)
 
Quote
I did not include you in the 9 groups.  Sorry for the omission...

No need to apologize. I don't consider myself to be on the same level with such an elite group.

Regards,
Charlie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 19, 2015, 06:40:42 PM
What are you talkng about Charlie.

Very few engineers understand how to accomplish this, their usefulness is less than optimal.

Technology today allows regular people to build more efficiently good ideas.

We just have to innovate and try things based on clues from the net, we are not manufacturing a product here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 19, 2015, 07:17:56 PM
Whats in that box?

Notice the rattle @ 1:30 , can anybody confirm to me if the wires are feeding the box or no, or is the wire passing besides it, theres a white wire going somewhere and 2 other wires,

It would seem that if 2 wires merge into one, I must be seeing either those 2 wires are the white with an extra white isolation removed and dont go inside the box

or some of these wire go inside the box.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCkID5jDZks



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 19, 2015, 08:11:58 PM
Tell the millionnaires about me

All those groups are expensive to hire, me I'm cheap to hire.

In any situation, I will go deep in design research and navigate correctly.

I can design on many programs now and have all machined myself, + I will build homemade sensors to see effect.

I need, 10,000-15,000$ , I estimate that with this I can fuly test many designs.

All will be fully accountable and only directed to research.

Cost will be absolutely bare minimum, no engineer fee only material and machine time.

organize this plz, this is not a scam, you will get your money Worth of research and time devoted.

I will gladly sign dotted line where my assasination is immediate if money is funneled to other things.

I am sure that the advisors of the Billionaires would have read and studied every post here before recommending donating or investing any money.  The Billionaires do not want to do it cheap.  They want results that they can proudly show to others (and the World).  500K is peanuts to them.  Such an amount cannot even buy a room in any average apartment in Hong Kong.  (The average price for a three bedroom apartment in Hong Kong is easily over HKD5 million.)
 
Here are more design considerations.  You can help to come up with the "final" design of the experiment.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 19, 2015, 08:25:18 PM
The adviser of the billionnaire has not seen and read and followed all the crap from the internet that me and Charlie have seen.

We have, for years now, been OCD about gravity devices, literally we have discussed more than 20 different ideas in another private forum.

If me and Charlie cannot do it, the lead out theory does not exist, with enough ressources our chances is 98%, we will find the trick.

All we need...more funding. All thats stopping us...funding.

Me I do things cheaply and clearly with metal. For Millionnaire or billionnaire, I dont take more than needed.

So this is like dust particles for millionnaire. 3 years later I give you million dollar technology, plans, manufacturing process.

You get 90% of gains from patent, I sign NDA.

No fancy gizmo, all mechanical/electrical

No worries, give me money and I work on this after work all the time.

You finance my experiments and I tell you my findings, you will be middleman between us and millionnaire.
 
Charlie will be my partner in this, we are anxious to receive payment :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ramset on February 19, 2015, 09:18:33 PM

ArmCortex
has your crew investigated this one?

http://www.universalengines.com.au/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 20, 2015, 12:18:02 AM
ArmCortex
has your crew investigated this one?

http://www.universalengines.com.au/ (http://www.universalengines.com.au/)

Dear ramset,
 
Thank you for bringing the universal engine to our attention.  I believe the correct explanation is leading-out gravitational energy via the unbalanced set up mounted in the vertical direction.
 
They tried to explain the excess of energy as coming from centripetal or centrifugal force.  By itself, with no external energy flowing in, the Law of Conservation of of Energy will be violated.  The academics and advisors to Investors will dismiss it.  However, if they change their explanation...
 
Personally, I find their set up somewhat complicated.  They have the advantage of having a working, demonstrated prototype now.  The fact that it is patent pending shows that it is new.
 
Do you know when they announced it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 20, 2015, 12:34:23 AM
More design considerations.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 20, 2015, 12:45:31 AM
I dont believe that the universal engine works.

First of all, nobody has replicated it yet, they have never showed it working.

Secondly, they give us all secrets of the device exept evidence that it is in fact working as claimed.

They dont seem to have gone into full production, wich is bizarre. The cost of that machine alone would be extremely high and eat all the budget

I'm more interrested in Flywheel devices shown in palladium investment video.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 20, 2015, 01:09:37 AM
More design improvements.
 
I already have 4 bicycle wheels and plenty of lead weights.
 
For proof of concept purposes, the cost of the experiment can be lowered to less than HKD10,000.  There may be no need to pay HKD300,000 for use of University facilities.
 
There may be no need to talk to millionaires or billionaires until the experiment is successful.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 20, 2015, 04:16:01 AM
Keep in mind that a 'loose' belt is only required to start the machine and has no bearing on its actual running.

This is according to Chas Campbell as mentioned in his video that I shared back in response #2663.

By the way, here's a very similar concept to the one you are proposing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFHkZ4iRo78

Best regards,
Charlie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 20, 2015, 05:42:42 AM
The 2 min video you refer to says that the belt absorbs the shock so as not to break anything and only a part of the device is talked about.

Do you agree that the wheel is released and is freefloating?

What is the causing of all that shaking?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 20, 2015, 06:02:16 AM
The 2 min video you refer to says that the belt absorbs the shock so as not to break anything and only a part of the device is talked about.

Are you talking about the Chas Campbell video? Near the end of the video, one other person is talking and says that he could just as easily use a variable frequency generator to control the start of the machine rather than have the belts loose. He shows the crank that he uses to apply tension to the belt once it is up and running. He also mentions that the pulley would slip in the belt if it wasn't loose because the initial load is too great.

Quote
Do you agree that the wheel is released and is freefloating?

What wheel? If you mean the flywheel, then no, I don't agree.

Quote
What is the causing of all that shaking?

Are you now talking about the other video? I'm confused....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 20, 2015, 06:18:19 AM
Yes I am talking about the 2 minute video of Chas and the 2 other guys.

The VFD is only a proposal wich Chas cares nothing about, he seems to not care for those guys at all.

Basicly, that video says very little, in fact the device is mostly disassembled.

I wonder why this is all that was shown.

I am talking about the wheel that gets released by the holder, it is freefloating.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 20, 2015, 08:21:19 AM
Keep in mind that a 'loose' belt is only required to start the machine and has no bearing on its actual running.

This is according to Chas Campbell as mentioned in his video that I shared back in response #2663.

By the way, here's a very similar concept to the one you are proposing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFHkZ4iRo78 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFHkZ4iRo78)

Best regards,
Charlie

Since I do not read Russian, I cannot cofirm for sure.  But I did see a drill and two small "gravity arms".  I could not determine how he used the lead-out gravitational energy.
 
Can you please elaborate?
 
Such videos help to provide me with more confidence that the experiment will be a success.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 20, 2015, 06:14:50 PM

Since I do not read Russian, I cannot cofirm for sure.  But I did see a drill and two small "gravity arms".  I could not determine how he used the lead-out gravitational energy.
 
Can you please elaborate?
 
Such videos help to provide me with more confidence that the experiment will be a success.

This is a full rotation type of two-stage oscillator. The drill drives the first unbalanced weight which is mounted on a common platform with an un-driven second unbalanced weight. The platform is cantilevered and supported by a heavy compression spring that provides the 'bounce' to induce rotation/oscillation in the second unbalanced weight.

He attempts to show a 'load' by pressing a section of hose against the drive-train. Near the end, the induced rotation falls out of resonance and he cuts off the power.

The problem at the end is what I have seen in my experiments as well. You can induce a secondary oscillation as long as you remain within a resonance 'window'. Once your load exceeds this window, the secondary oscillation falls apart.

I only meant to show that your experiment is similar but superior because there is no two stage oscillation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 20, 2015, 08:47:56 PM
Yes I am talking about the 2 minute video of Chas and the 2 other guys.

The VFD is only a proposal wich Chas cares nothing about, he seems to not care for those guys at all.

Basicly, that video says very little, in fact the device is mostly disassembled.

I wonder why this is all that was shown.

I am talking about the wheel that gets released by the holder, it is freefloating.

Here's the dialogue:

2:41 Charles: "I can get it (the motor) to spin in the belt as you've seen it without doing any damage to the motor. Well I'm not actually doing damage but I don't want the motor overloading while I'm trying to build it up."

2:57 Second person: "What we can also do is have permanent tension on there and use a VFD."

3:05 Charles: "Yes, there are probably better ways of doing it...the easiest way for me to do it (start the device) was to have loose belts...that doesn't mean to say..."

(Second person): "and that's the clutch there?..

Charles: "Then I just wind up this little thingy and this a purely a guide so that it tries to come up straight plus a spring to put a bit of tension because I don't want it to tip over once I get the pulleys right."

Its clear to me that the loose belts only serve to be able to start the entire machine. Otherwise, he would burn out the motor because the initial load is too great.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 20, 2015, 08:59:22 PM
This is a full rotation type of two-stage oscillator. The drill drives the first unbalanced weight which is mounted on a common platform with an un-driven second unbalanced weight. The platform is cantilevered and supported by a heavy compression spring that provides the 'bounce' to induce rotation/oscillation in the second unbalanced weight.

He attempts to show a 'load' by pressing a section of hose against the drive-train. Near the end, the induced rotation falls out of resonance and he cuts off the power.

The problem at the end is what I have seen in my experiments as well. You can induce a secondary oscillation as long as you remain within a resonance 'window'. Once your load exceeds this window, the secondary oscillation falls apart.

I only meant to show that your experiment is similar but superior because there is no two stage oscillation.

Thank you for the explanation.  I have looked at the universal engine video multiple times.
http://www.universalengines.com.au/ (http://www.universalengines.com.au/)
 
I like the name "universal engine".  Their mechanism is far too complicated.  The Tsinghua Unbalanced Cylinder is far superior.  The unbalanced weight is inside the cylinder and would not flying out.
 
The Unbalanced Cylinder is the Universal Engine.  That is the State Secret of China.
 
Now I think I know why I was suspected as a spy in 2006.  The technology is extremely powerful but simple.  Any developing nation can master it.
 
The Unbalanced Cylinder can be scaled up and down to lead-out gravitational energy.  This is only the beginning.  Leading-out magnetic and electromagnetic energy follows.  The Military of China and USA both realized its potential.
 
Lee Cheung Kin is right.  I am only a kindergardener compared with the Establishments.
 
The magic is revealed.  The Unbalanced Cylinder can be a Universal Engine.  Gravitational Energy can be lead-out in the simple motor-cylinder-generator arrangement.  Patents are not allowed because it is a state secret.
 
But any small nation can come out with Unbalanced Cylinders as add-on products...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 20, 2015, 09:09:58 PM
Here's the dialogue:

2:41 Charles: "I can get it (the motor) to spin in the belt as you've seen it without doing any damage to the motor. Well I'm not actually doing damage but I don't want the motor overloading while I'm trying to build it up."

2:57 Second person: "What we can also do is have permanent tension on there and use a VFD."

3:05 Charles: "Yes, there are probably better ways of doing it...the easiest way for me to do it (start the device) was to have loose belts...that doesn't mean to say..."

(Second person): "and that's the clutch there?..

Charles: "Then I just wind up this little thingy and this a purely a guide so that it tries to come up straight plus a spring to put a bit of tension because I don't want it to tip over once I get the pulleys right."

Its clear to me that the loose belts only serve to be able to start the entire machine. Otherwise, he would burn out the motor because the initial load is too great.

I agree. The Tsinghua Energy Multiplier may have similar mechanisms.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 21, 2015, 12:40:42 AM
Another more general design for the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.
 
Unbalanced Cylinder acts as Universal Engine Enhancer.
 
Many machines can use this design to bring-in gravitational energy as the source of Power.
 
However, the more compact designs will bring-in magnetic or electromagnetic energy.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 21, 2015, 01:28:02 AM
It is getting clear to me that the road block to "free energy" is the mindset of some Senior Officials.  They have the mindset that some technology must be kept as "top secret".
 
I would understand that mindset if it applies to destructive weapons such as nuclear bombs.
 
But there are technologies that can benefit the population at large.  Internet is an example.  At one time, the Chinese Government wanted strict control for fear of "subversive or pornographic posts".  When they realized the benefits, the control was relaxed. 
 
The Lead-out Energy Technology is likely to be similar to the Internet.  China has progressed from the "have not" period to "have excess" period.  It can grow excess food.  It can manufacture excess goods.  It can print excess money.  Less and less number of farmers and factory workers are needed.  The shift will go to innovation and technology.
 
If China implements Lead-out Energy in a big way, the rest of the World will follow.  China will rightfully claim the position of Number One nation in the World.  There is no need to conquer or cheat other nations.  Win-win is possible with excess energy.
 
***Knowledge is one of those few things - the more you give away, the more you have.  Lead-out Energy may be the same, the more you share with other, the more will come back to you.  If all nations become "have excess" nations, what is purpose of war?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 21, 2015, 01:17:14 PM
China's attitude towards free energy will depend on her oil revenues, and a perceived threat to them.


But the pollution problems should be considered (remember the Beijing Olympics?), and the public health implications.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 21, 2015, 05:30:31 PM
Charlie, I believe that you and I should simply talk elsewhere privately.

You may be right on some aspects ( I missed things )

But I am trying to figure out a larger story here. Where is the hidden eccentric?

Is there a Hidden eccentric in all these devices ? No... not all seems to be visually visible eccentric unless all of them (totality of devices shown) are hidden.

You are breaking down the whole theory, I never said there was anything to those loose pulleyrs there, In fact I am moving away from Chas design.
I was talking about the ''possibility of a new technique'', he has a Wheel, that has shoulder bearing on a floating wooden board, that is attached on input on one side
and output on other, he releases this wheel, lets the rotating mass sit on the sitting wheel, This is THAT ZONE of the build that causes the oscillatory drive that goes along the theory. Zone not shown in demo video.

I believe you are saying the same? You say yourself the eccentric is unproven why are you arguing, so you believe that what is causing such rattle?

I have my own interpretation in mind of whats happening, ''virtual eccentric'', if you hit something, you transfer weight energy ( inputted momentary weight by pulse), this motion across material, gets accelerated. This motion across matter is physcal thing, has frequency and speed of transfer.

I dont wanna argue anymore here it gives nothing, lets talk privately.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 21, 2015, 09:17:08 PM

Thank you for the explanation.  I have looked at the universal engine video multiple times.
http://www.universalengines.com.au/ (http://www.universalengines.com.au/)
 
I like the name "universal engine".  Their mechanism is far too complicated.  The Tsinghua Unbalanced Cylinder is far superior.  The unbalanced weight is inside the cylinder and would not flying out.
 
The Unbalanced Cylinder is the Universal Engine.  That is the State Secret of China.
 
Now I think I know why I was suspected as a spy in 2006.  The technology is extremely powerful but simple.  Any developing nation can master it.
 
The Unbalanced Cylinder can be scaled up and down to lead-out gravitational energy.  This is only the beginning.  Leading-out magnetic and electromagnetic energy follows.  The Military of China and USA both realized its potential.
 
Lee Cheung Kin is right.  I am only a kindergardener compared with the Establishments.
 
The magic is revealed.  The Unbalanced Cylinder can be a Universal Engine.  Gravitational Energy can be lead-out in the simple motor-cylinder-generator arrangement.  Patents are not allowed because it is a state secret.
 
But any small nation can come out with Unbalanced Cylinders as add-on products...

I wonder how long it will take universalengines.com.au to modify their design to be similar to the Tsinghu University Energy Multiplier.
 
How about other groups such as:
Milkovic, Chalkalis, Chas Campbell, Bedini, Tong, Ting, Wang, Chan etc.
 
One comment was that most "home made" wheels are somewhat unbalanced.  At speeds greater than 400rpm, they will lead-out some gravitational energy if mounted vertically.
 
I have no doubt that noonespecial or armcortex can also do it.
 
Any one who wants the overunity prize money can try it.  The Divine Wine is ready for all Believers.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 21, 2015, 11:03:39 PM
It can be tested, amongst other things. All can be tested. But

With the correct testbed design, I wish to test everything.

All in a custom frame, awaiting investors.

Would  few design ideas would interest you, perhaps we may talk privately,

You me and noonespecial.

We shoudls speak privately.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 22, 2015, 01:42:01 AM
One group appears to incorporate the unbalanced cylinder into the Motor similar to the Tong Wheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 22, 2015, 01:50:21 AM
It can be tested, amongst other things. All can be tested. But

With the correct testbed design, I wish to test everything.

All in a custom frame, awaiting investors.

Would  few design ideas would interest you, perhaps we may talk privately,

You me and noonespecial.

We shoud speak privately.

I am no longer interested in money.  Investors who are interested in profits only should not contact me.  If they are willing to donate 10% profit to charity, I am interested to present the Lead-out Technology to them.  I am too old to take on any management responsibility.
 
All my knowledge will be posted and shared with the World.  Divine Wine is to be shared.

*** I have been praying for Divine Guidance on what I should do next.  The answer is:

The best you can do is to promote the Lead-out Energy Theory.  Doing experiments or producing products are your weak spots.  Let others shine on those.

So I shall be posting and emailing massively.  Talk to multiple groups to excite and interest them.  Sow the seeds. Some may fall on rock.  Some may be treaded upon.  Yet some may bear fruit.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 22, 2015, 01:16:15 PM
Ltseung, so you think I cant build your device? Now that you have edited your post.

I guess that means you wont find me a millionnaire? You little...

What makes you think I even wanna try, that I even believe you or take you seriously or that I need you.

Everytime I hesitate I save money and buffers take the hit, 100% success rating.

Because we know how full of crap people are, they wanna hurt me and my wallet.

I am trying to nail this down, trust me you are completly useless to me now.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on February 22, 2015, 05:01:33 PM
My name has been coupled with ARMCORTEX in past responses (not by me).

I just want to go on record that I do not share his rather immature comments about you or your work. He is apparently very young and has a lot to learn about how to converse maturely in a public forum.

Best regards,
Charlie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on February 22, 2015, 06:06:47 PM
Drawings, drawings, drawings, page 1
Theories, theories, theories, page 10
Youtubes, youtubes, youtubes, page 20
Bickering, bickering, bickering, page 30
patent after patent after patent, page 40
no solid tests, no solid tests, no solid test.
same old, same old, same old. page 50

Any wonder why I get tired if the same old same old?

Is there any hope after all this - idea after idea after idea?

I'm loosing hope.

Norman

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 22, 2015, 07:58:23 PM
My name has been coupled with ARMCORTEX in past responses (not by me).

I just want to go on record that I do not share his rather immature comments about you or your work. He is apparently very young and has a lot to learn about how to converse maturely in a public forum.

Best regards,
Charlie

No problem, I was young and bashful once.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 22, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Drawings, drawings, drawings, page 1
Theories, theories, theories, page 10
Youtubes, youtubes, youtubes, page 20
Bickering, bickering, bickering, page 30
patent after patent after patent, page 40
no solid tests, no solid tests, no solid test.
same old, same old, same old. page 50

Any wonder why I get tired if the same old same old?

Is there any hope after all this - idea after idea after idea?

I'm loosing hope.

Norman
Norman,


I can promise you that this thread will not result in any working device which can deliver more output than input.
I can promise you that when page number one billion is reached, there is still no working device, no working replica, nor any scientific proof. So no reason to be patient  ;)


Oscillation is a fine thing when the oscillation system isn't loaded. It will sustain resonance forever. However, when the oscillation is loaded by friction (Or a load), there will be lag in the system that will cause the phase shift between weight and tension to be less than 180 degrees.
So you must put in more work to sustain oscillation.
12 times more output than input is simply not true. But telling this to people in here is pointless, but I hope at least you realize you don't need to wait any longer. Overunity will not happen any time soon.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 22, 2015, 08:35:49 PM
Drawings, drawings, drawings, page 1
Theories, theories, theories, page 10
Youtubes, youtubes, youtubes, page 20
Bickering, bickering, bickering, page 30
patent after patent after patent, page 40
no solid tests, no solid tests, no solid test.
same old, same old, same old. page 50

Any wonder why I get tired if the same old same old?

Is there any hope after all this - idea after idea after idea?

I'm loosing hope.

Norman

I was stupid once - spend my own resources on the Tong Wheel before the ideas were clear.  The result was doubtful - generating only watts.

I was stupid again - trying to build FLEET via the Joule Thief Circuit.  I never got useful resonances.  One fatal mistake was relying on the cheap Atten Oscilloscope.

The third time was better.  After carefully examining the Milkovic 2SO, I was absolutely certain that it is a lead-out energy device.  I then get Mr, Peter Chan to build the Chan Wheel with the Unbalanced Bicycle Wheel replacing the pendulum.  Bingo.  The Milkovic Effect was reproduced.  The mechanism of leading-out gravitational energy was crystal clear.

It was the Centrifugal Force of the Unbalanced Weight causing the vertical oscillation or the jumping effect.  Without the jumping, NO gravitational energy will be lead-out.  The Centrifugal Force increases with the square of the angular velocity.

The mystery of the Chalkalis and Chas Campbell setups were resolved.  A review quickly pointed me back to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  I am absolutely certain that the Cylinders were unbalanced.  (I mentioned it 8 years ago but I did not have the conviction.)

The moral of the story is - do not waste time and resources on prototypes when the ideas are not clear.  People like myself cannot build things - not even tightening screws.  Let others shine.

Before the others can shine, sufficient understanding must be imparted.  Now the proposed design of the simplified Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is very clear to me.  Some one like noonespecial has done similar experiments before.  They are in a better position to shine.

If you are impatient, come back after a few months or years.  The lead-out energy theory was out at least 8 years ago.  The lead-out energy Chan Wheel was produced only 3 months ago.  Divine Wine takes time to mature...

If you expect me to build the device and do the experiment myself, wait for the next life. ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 22, 2015, 08:47:43 PM
Norman,


I can promise you that this thread will not result in any working device which can deliver more output than input.
I can promise you that when page number one billion is reached, there is still no working device, no working replica, nor any scientific proof. So no reason to be patient  ;)


Oscillation is a fine thing when the oscillation system isn't loaded. It will sustain resonance forever. However, when the oscillation is loaded by friction (Or a load), there will be lag in the system that will cause the phase shift between weight and tension to be less than 180 degrees.
So you must put in more work to sustain oscillation.

12 times more output than input is simply not true. But telling this to people in here is pointless, but I hope at least you realize you don't need to wait any longer. Overunity will not happen any time soon.

*** The number of 12 times is "meaningless" once you understand the lead-out energy mechanism.  Imagine drilling a hole at a water tank.  Matching the energy used to drill the hole and the energy of the water comong out is meaningless.


Vidar
The Milkovic 2SO and the Chan Wheel are already lead-out gravitational energy devices.

The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier has been used since 1996.  The Output Energy is 30 times the Input.  The difference comes from the unbalanced cylinders leading-out gravitational energy via appropriate rotational speed.

Build yourself a Chan Wheel and confirm that only an Unbalanced Wheel can lead-out gravitational energy...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 22, 2015, 09:23:52 PM
My name has been coupled with ARMCORTEX in past responses (not by me).

I just want to go on record that I do not share his rather immature comments about you or your work. He is apparently very young and has a lot to learn about how to converse maturely in a public forum.

Best regards,
Charlie

Charlie I am just messing with the man, do you think I ever believed his stories for a single second.

Its all a a big fat lie and fantasy.

Cant stand BS, its there to hurt us.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on February 22, 2015, 10:16:24 PM


Itseung888 where is the proof of this???
"The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier has been used since 1996.  The Output Energy is 30 times the Input.  The difference comes from the unbalanced cylinders leading-out gravitational energy via appropriate rotational speed."

Vidar said "Overunity will not happen any time soon."
I disagree with you Vidar because I have seen an OU device but it does not have enough
extra to selfreplicate. It turns a permanent magnet attraction on and off
similar to Butch Lafonte things. But it takes about 200-300% extra to do the mechanical switching on and off to get self replication.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 22, 2015, 10:21:45 PM
Norman you are totally right and full of common sense, like all of us you are frustrated by the lack of progress and lies.

PM your email, I will send you links of what I believe is worthy path to follow.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 22, 2015, 10:25:04 PM
The Milkovic 2SO and the Chan Wheel are already lead-out gravitational energy devices.

The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier has been used since 1996.  The Output Energy is 30 times the Input.  The difference comes from the unbalanced cylinders leading-out gravitational energy via appropriate rotational speed.

Build yourself a Chan Wheel and confirm that only an Unbalanced Wheel can lead-out gravitational energy...
Sorry, but I do not believe in such stories. Gravitational energy CAN be found in powerplants using waterfalls. However, it is the sun doing all the work. Only then you can spend little energy to harvest multiple times the energy from the sun.


Using gravity in a closed loop to provide an enery output that is many times the energy input, that doesn't involve the sun (Our ultimate energy source), does not exist.


Vidar



Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on February 23, 2015, 12:01:32 AM
http://www.overunity.com/15553/flywheel-devices/msg439673/#new

You can continue discussing your interests in another thread

I expect the thread to die quickly since there is no valid opinion besides what I showed.

You can input your own and try to visualize things.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ltseung, I will just keep doing exactly the opposite of what you say, balanced and not moving.

Theres an eerie feeling I get again. Its a nice concept but It seems like it dont, too much shadyness.

I simply tired of being taken for a fool by grainy pics and strange devices, no loading and excited people.

What I wanna see now is BIG $$ invested, lots of people, demos and high excitement.

I dont wanna be that sucker no more sorry man, enough of that already.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 23, 2015, 01:16:21 AM

Itseung888 where is the proof of this???
"The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier has been used since 1996.  The Output Energy is 30 times the Input.  The difference comes from the unbalanced cylinders leading-out gravitational energy via appropriate rotational speed."



Norman

See reply 2584.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 23, 2015, 09:44:36 AM
More calculations.

1. The energy lead-out per swing for the Milkovic 2SO is (m1-m2)gh.  m1gh is the potential energy shown in lifting the weight m1.  m2gh is the potential energy required to return the pendulum back to its original position.

2. The energy lead-out per swing of the Unbalanced Wheel oscillating as the Milkovic 2SO is (m1-(m2+m3)gh where m2 is mass of the wheel and m3 is Unbalanced Mass.

3.  If there were no m1 to be lifted, the maximum potential energy difference per revolution is 2m3gR where R is the radius of the Unbalanced Wheel.  The actual amount will be much less than that.  If there were no oscillation motion, the force will change but there will be no displacement and thus no energy.  If there were vertical movement or oscillation, energy will be lead-out.  Another possible conversion is for the Unbalanced Wheel to rotate faster.

4.  The maximum energy lead-out per unit time =  2m3gRw where w is the number of revolution per second. 

5.  Another way of looking at the scenario is the total vertical distance moved ignoring the direction.  In other words, it is the maximum peak-to-peak amplitude of oscillation.  The exact conversion mechanism is still not absolutely clear yet...

6.  If the oscillation energy were instantly converted to rotation, the energy can be stored and transferred to another axle (and to the Generator).  This may be the secret of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.

The Taiwan setup uses magnetic suspension, allowing the axle itself and device to oscillate up and down.

Morality Point:

It took 10 years before the above calculation is clear in my mind.  But once it is clear, the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is a certainty.  If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy can be lead-out.

The Divine Wine has matured.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 23, 2015, 11:48:36 PM
The scientific question.

A system is in State A.  It can do work or transfer some of its energy to the surrounding environmnt.  Assume that the work done is Z.  The system is now in State B.

In an ideal situation, Z amount of energy must be supplied to bring the system from State B back to State A.

Is it possible to supply X units of energy from the user and bring-in Y units of energy from the surrounding environment so that X+Y is equal to Z?  The system will then be returned from State B to State A.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 24, 2015, 12:04:14 AM
The scientific question.

A system is in State A.  It can do work or transfer some of its energy to the surrounding environmnt.  Assume that the work done is Z.  The system is now in State B.

In an ideal situation, Z amount of energy must be supplied to bring the system from State B back to State A.

Is it possible to supply X units of energy from the user and bring-in Y units of energy from the surrounding environment so that X+Y is equal to Z?  The system will then be returned from State B to State A.

The theoretical answer must be YES.

The practical question to follow is HOW?

The actual devices are the Milkovic 2SO, the Chan Wheel, the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier etc.

The Divine Wine...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 24, 2015, 03:38:26 AM
Conversation with Mr. Peter Chan - the Engineer who built the Chan Wheel.


Chan: "My son talked with his professor.  His professor did not think the project would work.  However, my son expressed interest to participate after his studies."


Tseung: "We expect the classical rejection.  This is just another confirmation."


Chan: "Can we do a small scale experiment?  Most mechanical systems can be scaled up or down."


Tseung: "For static systems, your statement is true.  However, the lead-out energy systems use dynamic (more exactly, centrifugal) force that increases with the square of the angular velocity.  The scaling down may not work."


Chan: "Have you approached the academics?"


Tseung: "I talked to Mr. Lee Cheung Kin over the holidays.  He said that the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier was a Sate Secret 10 years ago.  It might still be a State Secret today.  However, our kindergarten level work might be "tolerated" by the authorities."


Chan: "We can do other experiments that we enjoy.  We just do not build products."


Tseung: "Let others shine.  I have passed the one page handout to other groups such as Thailand, India, Philippines etc.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 24, 2015, 04:56:12 AM
There are already over 40 motot-generator projects as reported by Sterling Allan.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Motor-Generator_Self-Looped_with_Usable_Energy_Left_Over

The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier need not be a State Secret anymore.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 24, 2015, 06:25:05 PM
There are already over 40 motor-generator projects as reported by Sterling Allan.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Motor-Generator_Self-Looped_with_Usable_Energy_Left_Over

The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier need not be a State Secret anymore.

Divine Guidance?

Doing another motor-generator project is not as useful as helping one or more to become "scientifically legitimate".  That means using the Lead-out Energy Theory to help them.

Tsinghua University is special.  It already knows the Lead-out Energy Theory.  It has a working prototype.  It is holding back the information because the information may be State Secret.

Which one should I pick?  Taiwan Maglev?

*** Sterling Allan compiled the list and was in contact with many of them.  Some may be looking for funding.  I already have contacts with Venture Capitalists who are impressed with the Lead-out Energy Presentation.  It is a matter of matching.

Since I am not looking for any financial gain or any participation role, the task is easy.  Introduce them to each other via the Internet.  The World will have lead-out energy products...

I am sure that many inventors with working prototypes will be glad to improve the performance with Unbalanced Cylinders in addition to getting funding.  I do not have to do any experiments and I do not need to squeeze money out from my retirement pension.  Win-win.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 25, 2015, 08:09:32 PM
There are already over 40 motot-generator projects as reported by Sterling Allan.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Motor-Generator_Self-Looped_with_Usable_Energy_Left_Over (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Motor-Generator_Self-Looped_with_Usable_Energy_Left_Over)

The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier need not be a State Secret anymore.
If these reports were true, you could put on rollerblades, and pull your own hand to make you accelerate.
If you try this, and find yourself standing still at the same place, you can say for sure that these reports are nothing but lies.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 26, 2015, 02:06:02 AM
Mystery of the QMOGEN solved.

I shall make this post self-contained so that the new comer does not need to read dozens of posts. 

QMOGEN stands for Motor-Generator Pair with excess energy.  These systems can self-run after starting.

The oldest QMOGEN that got my attention was in 2006 at Tsinghua University.  The story was an old inventor used such a device to save electricity at his factory.  He was initially accused by the local electricity company as “stealing” electricity.  He got Tsinghua University to prove his innocence.  His operation started in 1996.

A diagram of that device can be seen on reply 2584 of this thread.  It has three cylinders.  I mentioned that the cylinders were unbalanced in 2006 but I did not have the strong conviction compared with today.

My strong conviction came after re-examining the Milkovic 2SO in September, 2014.  See rely 2179.  I looked but did not see the Milkovic 2SO secret for almost 10 years.  With Divine Guidance, I see that the Milkovic 2SO uses the varying centrifugal force to change the clockwise moment on the pendulum side of the lever.  Thus the clockwise moment can be greater or less than the anti-clockwise moment of the mass m1.  m1 can be lifted.  However, the amplitude of swing of the pendulum does not decrease. 

The energy required to lift m1 is (m1gh).  The energy required to return the system to the initial state is m2gh.  (m2 is the mass of the pendulum bob)  In the Milkovic 2SO, m2 can be much less than m1. 

The old scientific belief was that when an object falls a height h, it loses potential energy mgh.  The same amount of energy must be supplied to get it back to the same height.  The Milkovic 2SO violated this belief.

The old scientific belief did not consider the dynamic motion due to the varying centrifugal force effect.  Once that effect is taken into account, the swinging pendulum with smaller mass m2 can indeed lift m1.  The LHS energy m2gh can be less than m1gh.  The difference in energy is “contributed” by Gravity.  This is the essence of the Lead-out Energy Theory.  It is the jumping or oscillating effect.

I then got Mr. Peter Chan to build the Chan Wheel.  For small angle movements, the Chan Wheel is the same as the Milkovic 2SO.  However, it can rotate much faster.  The biggest achievement of the Chan Wheel is the clear demonstration that the balanced wheel cannot lift m1 whereas the Unbalanced Wheel can easily lift m1.  In other words, the Unbalanced Wheel can lead-out gravitational energy.  (The balanced wheel cannot!)

Once the Physics is clear, it is automatic to re-examine existing devices.  The Chalkalis devices use gravity arms which are the equivalent of the Unbalanced Wheels.  The William Skinner device used centrifugal force.  The Chas Campbell device is a QMOGEN with loose belt to provide the “unbalancing”.  The Wang and Tong Wheels put the unbalancing inside the Wheel.  The Centrifugal Force varies as the square of the angular velocity.  This pointed to the design requirement of faster rotation.

It will not take long for any Physicist to project the scenario from Unbalanced Wheels to Unbalanced Cylinders.  Thus my conviction that the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is real and is probably the best QMOGEN so far. I am certain the Cylinders are unbalanced.

I believe all the QMOGENs work on the same scientific principle.  Many of the unbalancing comes from unintended “bad” machining.  It is very difficult to produce a perfectly balanced wheel.  Any imperfection will result in unbalancing.  High speed rotation will magnify this unbalancing effect.

There is a possible added advantage of leading-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy.  This will be the subject of another post.

Sterling Allan will be happy that his work in compiling the many QMOGENs is worthwhile.  There is no need for me to build another one in Hong Kong.

Divine Wine is for all to share.  QMOGEN is for many to shine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 26, 2015, 03:55:39 AM
Now, the secret of the QMOGEN is out.

Which QMOGEN will hit the market first?  Which ones will dominate eventually?

Will it be a repeat of the Internet?

DEC had DECnet first.  The first generation of Internet Computers used PDP-11s - DEC machines.  What happened to DEC now?

It is like opening restaurants.  There is no patent to prevent competition. There will be no patents on the Unbalanced Wheel or the Unbalanced Cylinder. 

My gut feel is that China will be the dominant force - Tsinghua University will be the "brain" behind.  Tsinghua University will have a new department called "alternative energy".  (I do not think they will call it lead-out energy.)  The State Secret will be disclosed.  (Will USA stop murdering or silencing its scientists?)

The debate on Overunity is over. The winners are the believers.  They are the first ones to taste the Divine Wine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 03:57:12 AM
The debate on Overunity is over. The winners are the believers.
I bet you your retirement savings that you are wrong.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 26, 2015, 04:01:42 AM
If these reports were true, you could put on rollerblades, and pull your own hand to make you accelerate.
If you try this, and find yourself standing still at the same place, you can say for sure that these reports are nothing but lies.


Vidar

Lies?

Spin the balanced Chan Wheel, the weight will not be lifted.

Spin the unbalanced Chan Wheel, the weight will be lifted.

Is gravitational energy lead-out or brought-in???
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 26, 2015, 12:56:20 PM
Conversation with a Physicist

Physicist: “I got your two page handout and I read your posts on the Internet.  There are a few comments I would like to make.”

Tseung: “Please go ahead.”

Physicist: “The Milkovic 2SO and the Chan Wheel can indeed lift the weight.  There is no doubt on the experimental observation.  You are claiming that the effective force pulling on the RHS is the weight of the pendulum bob plus the Centrifugal Force.”

Tseung: “Correct.”

Physicist: “Classical Physics allows that.  The Lead-out Energy Theory is just an application of the known Laws of Physics.  What is special is the adding of Centrifugal Force (a dynamic component) to the Weight (a static component).  Most Physicists just considered the static component in the past.”

Tseung: “Adding the dynamic component effectively increases the downward force (weight) when the pendulum bob is at the lowest point.  This increased force lifts the Weight W1 and gives it potential energy equal to m1gh.  The Centrifugal Force is reduced when the pendulum bob swings up.  The Weight W1 pulls the Pendulum bob back to the initial position – giving it potential energy m2gh.”

Physicist: “Since m1 is greater than m2, (m1-m2)gh is available to do work.  You are claiming that you can have m1gh energy to lift the Weight W1.  But returning the total system to the initial state only needs m2gh.  The difference (m1-m2)gh is the excess energy or the lead-out energy that can be used to do work.  This is a very clever application of dynamic motion.  Leading-out or bringing-in gravitational energy does not violate any Laws in Physics.  You are not introducing any new Physics.  You only add the dynamic component which should be the approach in the first place.  I shall give it more thought…”
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on February 26, 2015, 02:29:45 PM
You are not introducing any new Physics.  You only add the dynamic component which should be the approach in the first place.  I shall give it more thought…”

@itseu LOL , you are a good humorist artist


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_centrifugal_and_centripetal_forces
Quote
It wasn't until the latter half of the 18th century that the modern "fictitious force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force)" understanding of the centrifugal force as a pseudo-force artifact of rotating reference frames took shape.[11]
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 26, 2015, 03:39:36 PM

Spin the balanced Chan Wheel, the weight will not be lifted.

Spin the unbalanced Chan Wheel, the weight will be lifted.

Is gravitational energy lead-out or brought-in???
This is not an indication of excess energy.

It requires more energy input to spin up the unbalanced wheel
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 26, 2015, 11:20:38 PM
This is not an indication of excess energy.

It requires more energy input to spin up the unbalanced wheel

  The amount of energy to maintain the rotational speed of a Wheel (Balanced or Unbalanced) is dependent largely on friction and NOT the mass of the wheel (or the Weight lifted!)

The spin up is a one time event to provide or "store up" some rotational energy.


Please watch the Raymond Head video again.  Note that the amplitude of swing of the pendulum did not decrease when the weight was lifted.  Energy is NOT transferred from the pendulum in lifting the weight. 

Where does that excess energy come from?

If you have a Chan Wheel, you will find that the energy required to spin the wheel is NOT tied to the Weight lifted.  Building one is not difficult  You can claim to own an OU or Lead-out energy device.

Please watch the Raymond Head video again.  Many have looked but cannot see.  Try to see this time...

God Bless.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 26, 2015, 11:51:36 PM
@itseu LOL , you are a good humorist artist


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_centrifugal_and_centripetal_forces

You have brought out a point related to the concept of centrifugal and centripetal forces.

I shall keep it simple here.  In an unbalanced wheel, a gravity arm or a simple weight at the end of a string, when the object is rotating in a vertical frame, there will be a varying tension depending on the velocity at that point.  The highest tension will be experienced when the weight is at the lowest position when the velocity is highest.

The Milkovic 2SO video by Raymond Head clearly showed that the Weight was lifted twice per push by the finger.  The position was when pendulum bob was at lowest point.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 27, 2015, 12:27:21 AM
Draft Letter to introduce a Venture Capitalist X to an Inventor Y with working QMOGEN prototypes.

Dear X and Y,

This letter serves as an introduction to bring both of you together.  Mr. X had heard my presentation on Lead-out Energy and in particular, the power of the Unbalanced Wheel or the Unbalanced Cylinder. Mr. X expressed an interest in meeting and possibly funding a QMOGEN project.

Mr. Y developed a working QMOGEN prototype and have improved it using an Unbalanced Cylinder.  The approach is similar to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier discussed in my presentation.

I am only interested in promoting the Lead-out Energy to benefit the World.  I do not seek fame or fortune.  My role is to sow seeds.  I shall play no role in watering, weeding, fertilizing or harvesting.

Please donate 10% of your profit to a charitable organization of your choice when you succeed.

God Bless,

Lawrence Tseung
Co-developer of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on February 27, 2015, 12:53:06 AM
....the Weight was lifted twice per push by the finger......

I prefer the term "Mr. Hand", but whatever floats your boat.

Mr. Hand is responsible for more gravitational / pendulum "overunity" devices than anything else.

I hope you will give him a mention when you are up on stage accepting the Nobel.

He has been a kind but unrecognized bystander for many years,

Pete
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 27, 2015, 03:17:11 AM
I prefer the term "Mr. Hand", but whatever floats your boat.

Mr. Hand is responsible for more gravitational / pendulum "overunity" devices than anything else.

I hope you will give him a mention when you are up on stage accepting the Nobel.

He has been a kind but unrecognized bystander for many years,

Pete

I believe the Mr. Hand you refer to is Raymond Head.  On youtube, he uses the name RHEAD100.  His famous video has been watched close to 40,000 times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8

His contribution to the field of Overunity is acknowledged. 

The Nobel Prize is likely to go to Tsinghua - if China allows the State Secret to be disclosed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 27, 2015, 04:28:41 AM
Draft letter to a QMOGEN inventor X

Dear Mr. X,

I learned about your QMOGEN invention from Sterling Allan.  Congratulations on a great accomplishment.  You probably faced strong objections from the academics – saying that your device is not possible.  It violated the Law of Conservation of Energy.  There must have been a mistake or an error in measurement.

The good news is that such an objection or road block has been removed.  Your device is most probably using lead-out energy.  An example of using lead-out gravitational energy is explained in overunity.com reply 2718.  You can search using keyword “12 times” after you get into the overunity.com website.

The best QMOGEN device I know is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  It was not published because it was a “State Secret”.  I learned about it in 2006 when Mr. Lee Cheung Kin and I went to Tsinghua University to explain the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory and the workings of the 225 HP Pulse Motor from USA.

The secret is in the pulsed pendulum, the unbalanced wheel or the unbalanced cylinder.  When such devices are rotated in the vertical frame, the Centrifugal Force will effectively change the tension of the string.  That varying tension will produce a jumping or oscillating action to lead-out gravitational energy. 

Your device will be improved with the addition of an unbalanced cylinder similar to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  You may have an advantage over Tsinghua University as they are prevented to market or disclose the “State Secret”.

If you are seeking Venture Funding, you can email me.  I am in touch with a number of Venture Capitalists who showed interest in the Lead-out Energy Theory.

Best Wishes,

Lawrence Tseung
Co-developer of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 27, 2015, 04:52:08 AM
Draft letter to an academic X

Dear Mr. X,

I believe that you must have heard about inventors claiming “Free Energy” Devices.  You probably ignored them in the past because such devices violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.

There are now over 50 such devices compiled by Sterling Allan.  They are known as QMOGEN devices.  They are Motor-Generator pairs generating free energy.  Such devices are started by the Motor from mains or battery.  The Motor will drive a more powerful Generator amongst other components.  After full speed is achieved, the mains or battery can be disconnected.  The Motor will then be driven by the Generator.  The QMOGEN device will continue to provide electricity to power other electrical appliances.

The best QMOGEN device I know is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  It was not published because it was a “State Secret”.  I learned about it in 2006 when Mr. Lee Cheung Kin and I went to Tsinghua University to explain the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory and the workings of the 225 HP Pulse Motor from USA.

The secret is in the pulsed pendulum, the unbalanced wheel or the unbalanced cylinder.  When such devices are rotated in the vertical frame, the Centrifugal Force will effectively change the tension of the string.  That varying tension will produce a jumping action to lead-out gravitational energy.  Details can be found in overunity.com reply 2718.  Search using keyword “12 Times” after you get to the overunity.com website.

You may want to do your own independent verification.  This is likely to be a paradigm change discovery.   The field is new and much research is required.  If Gravitational Energy can be lead-out or brought-in, how about magnetic or electromagnetic energy?  Can we use the Electron Cloud or Electron Motion energy similar to Chemical Reactions?

Best Wishes,

Lawrence Tseung
Co-developer of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 05:13:11 AM
Draft letter to an academic X

Dear Mr. X,

I believe that you must have heard about inventors claiming “Free Energy” Devices.  You probably ignored them in the past because such devices violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.

There are now over 50 such exercises in experimental error compiled by Sterling Allan.  They are known as QMOGEN devices.  They are Motor-Generator pairs generating free energy.  Such devices are started by the Motor from mains or battery.  The Motor will drive a more powerful Generator amongst other components.  After full speed is achieved, the mains or battery can be disconnected.  The Motor will then be driven by the Generator but not like you would expect that useful power can be unambiguously drawn from it in arbitrary quantities.  The QMOGEN device will continue to provide electricity to power other electrical appliances generally in videos but never in real life will you see a city, factory or home run by these devices.

The best QMOGEN device I know is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  It was not published because it was a “State Secret”.  Much like other research done under oppressive regimes the outcomes are very suspect. I learned about it in 2006 when Mr. Lee Cheung Kin and I went to Tsinghua University to explain the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory and the workings of the 225 HP Pulse Motor from USA.

The secret to my self-deception lies in complex apparatus, poor precision and odd testing arangements.  Again if this could really work China should have not bothered with building two CanDU reactors.

You may want to do your own independent verification.  This is likely to be a major disappointment.   The field is new and generally filled with much back patting and very little knowledge.  If Gravitational Energy can be lead-out or brought-in then you might as well build things out of elastic bands which would power the planet forever.

Best Wishes,

Lawrence Tseung & Sarkeizen
Co-developer of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory and person who tries hard not to fool himself (respectively)
FTFY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 27, 2015, 10:03:16 AM
Jack Ma set up a HK$1b Alibaba fund to help young Hong Kong entrepreneurs.

Draft Letter to Young Entrepreneurs X,

Dear Mr. X,

Many of you complained about the lack of opportunity today as compared with the 1980s in Hong Kong.  Things have changed.  University graduates are no longer guaranteed to get good jobs.  Price of property is out of reach for the average citizen.  Manufacturing jobs have got to Mainland China.

Opportunity always knocks.  It may take a different form.  At one time, anyone who can spell Internet and HTML will get a job.  In the coming future, anyone who can explain lead-out energy will get a job.  The paradigm change technology is here.  Will you answer the door when you hear the knock?

There are devices known as QMOGEN.  Over 50 has been compiled by Sterling Allan.  QMOGEN stands for Motor-Generator pair with excess energy.  A motor using mains or battery starts the Generator to power many electrical appliances.  After full speed is reached, mains or battery is disconnected. The Generator powers the motor and the many electrical appliances.  It sounds impossible.  Many established scientists will tell you that such devices violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.  They will tell you not to waste your time.

You have seen magicians perform the seemingly impossible.  But once you know how the magic is performed, everything is logical.  The QMOGEN is no exception.

The best QMOGEN I know is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  The magic is explained in overunity.com reply 2718.  You can search using the key word “12 times”.  Can you use the opportunity?

You will hear jeers.  Will you endure?  Will you overcome all odds?

God gives to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation. Eph.1:17

Lawrence Tseung
Co-developer of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 27, 2015, 02:35:49 PM
Note that the amplitude of swing of the pendulum did not decrease when the weight was lifted.  Energy is NOT transferred from the pendulum in lifting the weight. 

Where does that excess energy come from?

There is no excess energy that I can see.

When the weight is lifted, it absorbs energy from its suspension system.

When the weight falls, it returns that energy to its suspension system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 27, 2015, 03:31:08 PM
There is no excess energy that I can see.

When the weight is lifted, it absorbs energy from its suspension system.

When the weight falls, it returns that energy to its suspension system.
I absolutely agree. Energy is "bouncing" back and forth just like energy is "bouncing" back and forth between a parallell connection between a coil and a capacitor.
As soon as you load it with a resistance, the phase shift between current and voltage decrease and the oscillation will stop. The very same thing happens in a mechanical system with a weight (inductance in a coil) and the suspension (capacitance in a capacitor).


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on February 27, 2015, 04:05:55 PM
I absolutely agree. Energy is "bouncing" back and forth just like energy is "bouncing" back and forth between a parallell connection between a coil and a capacitor.
As soon as you load it with a resistance, the phase shift between current and voltage decrease and the oscillation will stop. The very same thing happens in a mechanical system with a weight (inductance in a coil) and the suspension (capacitance in a capacitor).


Vidar

The Tesal coil RLC circuit fires the spark plugs in our autos and thus  does it "recycles" the magnetic
field back and forth between the capacitor and thus makes a longer lasting spark so that a better fuel burn is achieved. - Thank you Nikola. It works because what you want is a spark
and that does not take any power out. If you take part of the power out then the spark
gets weaker.  Too bad we can't exploit this to get something else we want - perhaps the
joule thief circuits do some of this with the leds.....Got any other useful ideas on how
to apply this to what we need?

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 27, 2015, 05:02:16 PM
The Tesal coil RLC circuit fires the spark plugs in our autos and thus  does it "recycles" the magnetic
field back and forth between the capacitor and thus makes a longer lasting spark so that a better fuel burn is achieved. - Thank you Nikola. It works because what you want is a spark
and that does not take any power out. If you take part of the power out then the spark
gets weaker.  Too bad we can't exploit this to get something else we want - perhaps the
joule thief circuits do some of this with the leds.....Got any other useful ideas on how
to apply this to what we need?

Norman
A spark is a conductive path through the air. It discharge the powersupply which made the spark possible.
The spark occours due to the collapse of the magnetic field around a coil. This system is called inductive discharge ignition.


Capacitors discharge ignition is mainly used in small engines. A system who Tesla invented (I think), but also involve a coil.
Today a thyristor is controlling the discharge (Old engines use a mechanical switch). The capacitor is charged to a high voltage, and suddenly discharges over a coil - a spike of voltage fed into the coils primary winding, where the secondary coil (with much more windings) make it possible for a spark to occour.


The oscillation system you mention does not last for long, and the conductive spark will empty the energy source which must be charged again before the next cycle. It does for sure take power out. You cannot make a spark without energy input - or maybe I misunderstood you.


Any Joule Thief device will "steal" energy out of a system. These simple electronic circuits use the collapse of a coils magnetic field to boost voltge, but that will drain more current from the source. The efficiency are known to be high, but not higher than 100%. So the energy output is allways lower than the energy input. These devices are also used in cheap powersupplies, also called Buck Converters, to deliver higher voltage than the source can deliver. On the expense of lower output current, and higher input current. The product of voltage and current (Measured in Watt) at both sides are allways lower at the output. I use a Buck Converter to boost voltage from a car battery up to about 25V. It powers LEDs for auxiliary lights on my car. The current through these 8x LEDs in series is about 3A, and the current input to the converter is about 6A. 13V x 6A = 78W draw from the battery, 3A x 25V = 75W to the LEDs. Efficiency is then as high as 96%. Surprisingly high for a Deal Extreme converter for a few dollars.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on February 27, 2015, 05:06:54 PM

As soon as you load it with a resistance, the phase shift between current and voltage decrease and the oscillation will stop. The very same thing happens in a mechanical system with a weight (inductance in a coil) and the suspension (capacitance in a capacitor).

Very interesting metaphor.

What would it mean mechanically if the electrical metaphor were to be extended into the world of reactive power (and the presumed OU benefits) ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on February 27, 2015, 05:38:29 PM
Low-q  said
" The spark occours due to the collapse of the magnetic field around a coil."
yes but it sloshes back and forthe between the cap and coil numerous times
till is wanes down like a child on a swing and that is why the spark looks brighter
than one without the capacitor......and thus burns the fuel more completely..


The cap went bad in my father's car one time and it ran but had little power
till the cap was replaced and then it ran with full power because it had a
more complete burn.

So if what you wanted was a lot of light that that spark made then to get more
light the recycling would work but what we want is usually mechanical or
electrical power so the RLC circuit does not get us what we want cause it
stops recycling when you take power out.


Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 27, 2015, 06:09:55 PM
Very interesting metaphor.

What would it mean mechanically if the electrical metaphor were to be extended into the world of reactive power (and the presumed OU benefits) ?
If I understand your question correctly, a mechanical oscillation system that is loaded, will cause lag in the mechanical movement of the weight.
Imagine you want a mass and its suspension oscillate in syrup. The mass and the suspension is the same, but the syrup will resist a compressed or stretched suspension to move the weight through it. It cause a delay in the weights movement in both directions and therfor limit the amplitude, or how far the weight travels in each direction. Another thing that happens is that the resonance frequency drops. Of course energy is spent and taken from the oscillation, but the result is what you can imagine. Hard to sustain oscillation when there is a resistor in the system.


In a lossless suspension/weight system, the compression of the suspension occours at the same time as the weight approach the suspension to compress it. In syrup the weights movement will more or less follow the force in the suspension, making it almost impossible to detect a resonance at all - hence less phase shift.


Reactive power poses no load and can not be converted to do work.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 27, 2015, 10:44:26 PM
Draft Letter to the Chinese Officials in charge of Technology Development, Mr. X

Dear Mr. X,

China always want to get to the forefront of Science and Technology.  You have been put at a position to guide the Nation.  I would like to bring your attention to the field of New Energy.

There is a new wave of inventions called QMOGEN.  Sterling Allan compiled over 50 of them.  These QMOGENs are Motor-Generator pairs.  The Motors get their starting power from mains or batteries.  They then rotate the shafts of the Generators and other components.  After full speed, the mains or batteries are disconnected.  The Generators will continue to provide power to drive the Motor and other electrical appliances.

Your first reaction may be – it is impossible.  It violates the Law of Conservation of Energy.  But the oldest and best QMOGEN is actually the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  I learned about it in 2006 when Lee Cheung Kin and I went to present the Lead-out Energy Theory and the workings of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.

The secret or the Physics behind the QMOGEN has now been worked out.  In the case of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier, gravitational energy is lead-out or brought-in via rotation of Unbalanced Cylinders.  The details are in overunity.com reply 2718. Please search using key word “12 Times” after you get into the overunity.com website.

If you want to see experimental evidence, you can approach Tsinghua University or come to Hong Kong to see the Chan Wheel in action.  The Chan Wheel is an improvement over the Milkovic two stage pendulum.  It can clearly show that gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in via an Unbalanced Wheel.  A Balanced Wheel cannot do so.

I believe that such a technology may have been known to you and may even be classified as a State Secret.  I would urge you to carefully consider or reconsider the situation.  Over 50 similar devices are now known Worldwide.  One or more will hit the market sooner or later.

If China does not act, China will fall behind.  Please take appropriate action.

Let us build a stronger China to benefit the World.

Lawrence Tseung
Co-Developer of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 11:00:32 PM
Draft Letter to the Chinese Officials in charge of Technology Development, Mr. X

Dear Mr. X,

China always want to get to the forefront of Science and Technology.  You have been put at a position to guide the Nation.  I would like to bring your attention to the field of New Energy.

There is a new wave of inventions called QMOGEN.  Sterling Allan compiled over 50 of them.  These QMOGENs are Motor-Generator pairs.  The Motors get their starting power from mains or batteries.  They then rotate the shafts of the Generators and other components.  After full speed, the mains or batteries are disconnected.  The Generators will continue to provide power to drive the Motor and other electrical appliances.

Your first reaction may be – it is impossible.  It violates the Law of Conservation of Energy.  But the oldest and best QMOGEN is actually the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  I learned about it in 2006 when Lee Cheung Kin and I went to present the Lead-out Energy Theory and the workings of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.

The secret or the Physics behind the QMOGEN has now been worked out.  In the case of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier, gravitational energy is lead-out or brought-in via rotation of Unbalanced Cylinders.  The details are in overunity.com reply 2718. Please search using key word “12 Times” after you get into the overunity.com website.

If you want to see experimental evidence, you can approach Tsinghua University or come to Hong Kong to see the Chan Wheel in action.  The Chan Wheel is an improvement over the Milkovic two stage pendulum.  It can clearly show that gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in via an Unbalanced Wheel.  A Balanced Wheel cannot do so.

I believe that such a technology may have been known to you and may even be classified as a State Secret.  I would urge you to carefully consider or reconsider the situation.  Over 50 similar devices are now known Worldwide.  One or more will hit the market sooner or later.

If China does not act, China will fall behind.  Please take appropriate action.

Let us build a stronger China to benefit the World.

Lawrence Tseung
Co-Developer of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory
Have you considered writing this in Chinese?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 28, 2015, 12:26:46 AM
Have you considered writing this in Chinese?

親愛的X先生,


中國總是希望得到科技的最前沿。你一直擺在一個位置來指導國家。我想提請你注意新能源領域。


有一個新的發明浪潮稱為QMOGEN。英鎊艾倫編制超過50人。這些QMOGENs是電動發電機對。該汽車公司得到他們的權力開始從主電源或電池。然後,他們轉動發電機和其他組件的軸。經過全面提速,電源或電池斷開連接。該發電機將繼續提供電能驅動電機等電器。


你的第一反應可能是 - 這是不可能的。它違反了能量守恆定律。不過,最古老和最QMOGEN實際上是清華大學能源乘數。我在2006年得知這時候利祥健和我去呈現引出線能源理論和HP 225脈衝電機的工作原理。


秘密或QMOGEN背後的物理學現在已經制定了。在清華大學能源乘法器的情況下,重力能是引出或贊助商,在通過非平衡缸的旋轉。細節是overunity.com回复2718使用關鍵字“12次”請搜索後,你進入overunity.com網站。


如果你想看到的實驗證據,你可以接近清華或來港見成龍輪行動。禪輪是經過改良的Milkovic兩級擺。它可以清楚地表明,引力能可以引出或通過車輪不平衡帶來式。均衡的車輪不能這樣做。


我相信,這樣的技術可能已經知道,你甚至可能被列為國家機密。我會勸你慎重考慮或重新考慮的情況。超過50個類似的設備是目前已知世界各地。一個或多個將衝擊市場遲早的事。


如果中國不採取行動,中國會落後。請採取適當的行動。


讓我們建立一個強大的中國有利於世界。


勞倫斯將軍澳
聯合開發的李將軍澳鉛出能量理論
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on February 28, 2015, 12:27:26 AM
Morality Point:
It is extremely unwise, if not outright dishonest, to declare something as *definitely* producing
over unity, when you have not first built the device yourself and configured the device in such a way
that it will self run from its own generated power for a reasonably and considerable long amount of time without stopping, with
no batteries or other external power sources connected to the device or otherwise providing power to the device. 
The honest and sensible way is for a person to honestly admit that they do not know for certain that something is definitely
over unity, if they do not know this *for certain*. There is of course a world of difference between what might possibly
be over unity, and what has definitely been proven to oneself to be over unity by building a self running device.

Corollary:
To mislead people, whether intentionally or not, is still misleading people.


All the best...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on February 28, 2015, 01:17:49 AM
Morality Point:
It is extremely unwise, if not outright dishonest, to declare something as *definitely* producing
over unity, when you have not first built the device yourself and configured the device
in such a way
that it will self run from its own generated power for a reasonably and considerable long amount of time without stopping, with
no batteries or other external power sources connected to the device or otherwise providing power to the device. 
All the best...

Sadly I have to agree with you. And sadly I will predict that a year from now there will be
no selfrunning device using the technology presented here. And sadly this will likely end up in a verbal battle and a bunch of wasted bandwidth and disk storage.

But I would much rather be wrong.
Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on February 28, 2015, 12:41:10 PM
I just want to show you an image of a oscillation system. The image is taken from another thread. It displays how and why an oscillation system can't produce excess energy.
The arrows in the red and green path of the pendulum speaks for itself. Regardless if there is magnets present or not, the pendulums path will be similar, assuming the weight is liftet at each cycle of the pendulum.
If someone assumes that the pendulum is unaffected by the energy it adds the weight to the right, your'e wrong  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 28, 2015, 07:29:47 PM
Morality Point:
It is extremely unwise, if not outright dishonest, to declare something as *definitely* producing
over unity, when you have not first built the device yourself and configured the device in such a way
that it will self run from its own generated power for a reasonably and considerable long amount of time without stopping, with
no batteries or other external power sources connected to the device or otherwise providing power to the device. 
The honest and sensible way is for a person to honestly admit that they do not know for certain that something is definitely
over unity, if they do not know this *for certain*. There is of course a world of difference between what might possibly
be over unity, and what has definitely been proven to oneself to be over unity by building a self running device.

Corollary:
To mislead people, whether intentionally or not, is still misleading people.


All the best...

Let us take the case of Galileo - his studies and understanding convinced him 100% that the Earth is round.  Should he declare that fact to the World?  The authorities at that time refused to accept his reasoning.

Some may even ask him to go round the World himself to prove it.

In the case of the QMOGEN, over 50 have been compiled by Sterling Allan.  The best one is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  That was introduced to me by some one extremely credible - a professor at Tsinghua University and his group of research students.  I did not realize or did not have the conviction to say that the cylinders were unbalanced in 2006.

Now I have the Chan Wheel.  It clearly demonstrates that a balanced wheel cannot lift the weight.  The Unbalanced Wheel can easily do so.  The Physics of adding the Centrifugal Force to the weight of the pendulum bob conclusively showed that the varying tension will provide the oscillation to lift the Weight (and to lead-out gravitational energy). The Output Energy m1gh to lift the weight is definitely more than the energy required to return the system to the original state m2gh.
The difference (m1-m2)gh is the lead-out energy that can be used to do other useful work.

There is no need to build another QMOGEN myself. Helping one or more QMOGEN inventors to improve their prototypes and explain the Physics properly is a much better strategy.  More people will shine.

Galileo was not dishonest when he told the World that the Earth is round...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on February 28, 2015, 07:41:02 PM
Let us take the case of Galileo when his studies and understanding convinced him 100% that the Earth is round.  Should he declare that fact to the World?  The authorities at that time refused to accept his reasoning.

Some may even ask him to go round the World himself to prove it.
Since the ancient Greeks had already established that the world was round and had come up with a fairly accurate estiambe of the earth's diameter, it was the detractors, AKA Catholic Church who ignored available evidence.
Quote

In the case of the QMOGEN, over 50
claims, none proven
Quote
have been compiled by Sterling Allan.  The best one is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  That was introduced to me by some one extremely credible - a professor at Tsinghua University and his group of research students.  I did not realize or did not have the conviction to say that the cylinders were unbalanced in 2006.
And here we are about nine years later and no one is showing any evidence of the claimed device actually working.  The QMoGen is on its back, baking in the sun.  It can't achieve unity.  It can't get out of the sun without your help Lawrence.  But, you're not helping it.  Why is that Lawrence?
Quote

Now I have the Chan Wheel.  It clearly demonstrates that a balanced wheel cannot lift the weight.  The Unbalanced Wheel can easily do so.  The Physics of adding the Centrifugal Force to the weight of the pendulum bob conclusively showed that the varying tension will provide the oscillation to lift the Weight (and to lead-out gravitational energy).

There is no need to build another QMOGEN myself. Helping one or more QMOGEN inventors to improve their prototypes is a much better strategy.  More people wil shine.
Since you cannot make one work not trying is a great strategy.
Quote

Galileo was not dishonest when he told the World that the Earth is round...
No, but given that a number of your claims run so very afoul of simple sanity checks that you could easily perform yourself, it is very curious why you continue to promote these false ideas.  You keep telling us how people have been easily obtaining or could easily obtain free energy for years, and yet you have never shown something that actually produces the free energy you claim is so easily obtained.  Why is that Lawrence?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 28, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
I just want to show you an image of a oscillation system. The image is taken from another thread. It displays how and why an oscillation system can't produce excess energy.
The arrows in the red and green path of the pendulum speaks for itself. Regardless if there is magnets present or not, the pendulums path will be similar, assuming the weight is liftet at each cycle of the pendulum.
If someone assumes that the pendulum is unaffected by the energy it adds the weight to the right, your'e wrong  :)

Where?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 01, 2015, 12:39:50 AM
9 years, and nearly 3000 posts later....

still for some reason, no one has rigged this thing to a 'keeper', to cycle the pendulum.....

why??

the pendulum clock was invented in 1656.....  we know how to do it..... that can't be the problem...

the equations for the pendulum are well known, we can simply calculate how much energy is needed to keep a pendulum moving.
we know how to do it,... that can't be the problem....

all these false claims of excess energy from this device,.. even after we baby-step you guys through the math, and show you exactly what happens every swing of the pendulum....
even after reading the specs of the water pump, from the INVENTOR himself...

even after you yourselves have to INPUT energy into the pendulum every time it stops,.....

still this senseless promotion of this device.....   

Why hasn't anyone successfully looped it??  because it doesn't work....


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on March 01, 2015, 01:33:18 AM
Let us take the case of Galileo - his studies and understanding convinced him 100% that the Earth is round.  Should he declare that fact to the World?  The authorities at that time refused to accept his reasoning.
Some may even ask him to go round the World himself to prove it.
In the case of the QMOGEN, over 50 have been compiled by Sterling Allan.  The best one is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  That was introduced to me by some one extremely credible - a professor at Tsinghua University and his group of research students.  I did not realize or did not have the conviction to say that the cylinders were unbalanced in 2006.
Now I have the Chan Wheel.  It clearly demonstrates that a balanced wheel cannot lift the weight.  The Unbalanced Wheel can easily do so.  The Physics of adding the Centrifugal Force to the weight of the pendulum bob conclusively showed that the varying tension will provide the oscillation to lift the Weight (and to lead-out gravitational energy). The Output Energy m1gh to lift the weight is definitely more than the energy required to return the system to the original state m2gh.
The difference (m1-m2)gh is the lead-out energy that can be used to do other useful work.
There is no need to build another QMOGEN myself. Helping one or more QMOGEN inventors to improve their prototypes and explain the Physics properly is a much better strategy.  More people will shine.
Galileo was not dishonest when he told the World that the Earth is round...

Hi Lawrence. I think you are mixing apples and oranges when you compare observations about
the Earth to an alleged over unity device. The Earth is right here with us already. We do not have to build
it to observe how it really works. We just need to make the right observations of the already existing Earth to determine
that it is not flat. With an alleged over unity device however, unless you actually build it and configure it to be self running,
you are not able to draw definite conclusions about it being over unity. You only have unproven theories. Since in general over unity
can be very tricky to measure convincingly due to there typically being many potential places that one doing the measurements could make
errors or overlook something, with an over unity device it is pretty much essential to build a device that actually self runs to remove all doubt
about possible measurement errors or of overlooking certain factors. There may be exceptions to this, but for the most part I think people are going
to need to see a self running device to be convinced that any particular device really is over unity.

Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying I don't think that an unbalanced wheel/cylinder necessarily can't pull in
excess energy into the system beyond what is driving the system. I am just saying that you cannot say that this has been
proven with absolute certainty unless you build one and get it self running. Then all doubts about errors or oversights
can be removed. Regarding the 'QMoGen' devices, there may be 'QMoGen' devices that really do self run, but again unless
you have one right in front of you that is self running that you can fully observe and fully analyze to make certain there are
no hidden power sources, then you still can't say with certainty that said device really is over unity.

There is nothing wrong with saying that based on your theoretical analysis and calculations you believe strongly that
an unbalanced wheel/cylinder configured in the right way can pull in excess energy. That is your opinion, and it is clear to
everyone that this is just your opinion. Hypotheses and theories are only hypotheses and theories until they are proven.
A given hypothesis or theory may eventually prove right, or it may eventually prove wrong. Without proof, there is just no way
to say for sure one way or the other. :)

All the best...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 01, 2015, 01:45:13 AM
9 years, and nearly 3000 posts later....

still for some reason, no one has rigged this thing to a 'keeper', to cycle the pendulum.....

why??

the pendulum clock was invented in 1656.....  we know how to do it..... that can't be the problem...

the equations for the pendulum are well known, we can simply calculate how much energy is needed to keep a pendulum moving.
we know how to do it,... that can't be the problem....

*** that is the problem.  Scientists in the past ignored the contribution of the Centrifugal force to the tension of the string.  I made that mistake too until a few months ago.

all these false claims of excess energy from this device,.. even after we baby-step you guys through the math, and show you exactly what happens every swing of the pendulum....

*** Did your baby-step consider the effect of the Centrifugal Force?

even after reading the specs of the water pump, from the INVENTOR himself...

even after you yourselves have to INPUT energy into the pendulum every time it stops,.....

still this senseless promotion of this device.....   

Why hasn't anyone successfully looped it??  because it doesn't work....

The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier works.  It is prevented from publishing and marketing because of State Secret.

The Chan Wheel works and I have it in Hong Kong.  It can demonstrate that a balanced wheel will not lift the Weight and the Unbalanced Wheel can easily do so.  The lead-out energy is equal to (m1-m2)gh in case of the pendulum.

The Centrifugal Force must be added to the weight of the pendulum bob to provide the tension in the string.  This had not been taken into account in the past.
Please show your mathematics of the pendulum in the case of the Milkovic 2SO.

Over 50 QMOGENs have claimed to have successfully self-looped including Chas Campbell.  It is the Governments (USA and China included) putting their influence to prevent "a paradigm shift" that may affect the National Interest.

I believe Lee Cheung Kin is right.  Governments have applied the technology in the Military applications.  They are far ahead compared with what we are presenting here today.

Spend US$100 or so.  Buy an old bicycle wheel and a lead weight.  Build a Frame and lever system similar to the Chan Wheel.  Prove to yourself that both the Milkovic 2SO and Chan Wheel are lead-out energy devices.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 01, 2015, 02:38:32 AM
Hi Lawrence.

... You only have unproven theories.

... Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying I don't think that an unbalanced wheel/cylinder necessarily can't pull in excess energy into the system beyond what is driving the system.  Regarding the 'QMoGen' devices, there may be 'QMoGen' devices that really do self run, but again unless you have one right in front of you that is self running that you can fully observe and fully analyze to make certain there are no hidden power sources, then you still can't say with certainty that said device really is over unity...


All the best...

One important purpose of my posts is to tell the over 50 QMOGEN inventors that they are on the right track.  They can easily improve the performance of their inventions via the use of the Unbalanced Cylinder.  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is an example to follow.

Some inventors with profit motive in mind "accused" me of leaking their secrets.  The result is that I shall not contact them again until their invention has come out in the Market.  Once they know the lead-out energy theory and the unbalanced cylinder, my value to them is over.  I cannot help them to design or build any device  (not even tighten a screw :).)

The best way to help the QMOGEN inventors is via one-way traffic - I post the theory and design principle.  Let them improve and shine.  I sow the seeds.  They do the watering, fertilizing, harvesting etc.

Some may post their self-loop devices (some did already e.g Ymnee)...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 01, 2015, 03:48:49 AM
Let us take the case of Galileo - his studies and understanding convinced him 100% that the Earth is round.
While he did believe this, so did most other learned people then and centuries before as well.  The debate between Galileo and the Catholic church was about heliocentricism and even that was, at that time observationally equivalent to the Tychonic system.  So while Galileo was correct, he could not using only the data at his disposal consider himself 100% correct.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 01, 2015, 05:27:06 AM

Please show your mathematics of the pendulum in the case of the Milkovic 2SO


perhaps you should read the rest of this thread, we went over this around the first 20 pages.....

but a short recap on that if you must....

The Kinetic energy(1/2mv^2) and Potential energy (mg*length[1-cos(swing angle)]) of the swinging pendulum always balance each other out, regardless of pendulum mass.
At bottom dead center, however, the force is perpendicular to the swinging pendulum, and E = mgh of the 2nd fulcrum weight is subtracted
from the motion of the pendulum, the energy being subtracted from each side of it's swing ( minus all other appropriate losses).
This results in lower swing height on each successive swing, and thus the pendulum stops.

This is easily demonstrated using two identical pendulums, one WITH a 2nd fulcrum weight, and one WITHOUT.
Start both pendulums swinging in synchronicity, while the 2nd fulcrum weight is held in place, and you will see that both pendulums behave exactly the same.
However, when you release the 2nd fulcrum weight, the second pendulum slows down, and eventually comes to a stop.

Now let's Lead this conversation OUT to the water wells, where this device is used as a pump, by it's inventor::
this pump requires energy INPUT, to keep it running. The specs are available on his company's website.







 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2015, 11:27:33 AM
Maybe this post will end this thread :-). I made a pendulum with  a magnet on it. The magnet pass a stationary iron powder core and the pendulum is fluctuating nicely - not doing work. Then the core is free to move in the magnetic field - the pendulum are doing work, but stops right away.

The point is that gravity cannot apply energy.http://youtu.be/pDvTpIoHJaI (http://youtu.be/pDvTpIoHJaI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 01, 2015, 12:02:43 PM
perhaps you should read the rest of this thread, we went over this around the first 20 pages.....

but a short recap on that if you must....

The Kinetic energy(1/2mv^2) and Potential energy (mg*length[1-cos(swing angle)]) of the swinging pendulum always balance each other out, regardless of pendulum mass.
At bottom dead center, however, the force is perpendicular to the swinging pendulum, and E = mgh of the 2nd fulcrum weight is subtracted
from the motion of the pendulum, the energy being subtracted from each side of it's swing ( minus all other appropriate losses).
This results in lower swing height on each successive swing, and thus the pendulum stops.

This is easily demonstrated using two identical pendulums, one WITH a 2nd fulcrum weight, and one WITHOUT.
Start both pendulums swinging in synchronicity, while the 2nd fulcrum weight is held in place, and you will see that both pendulums behave exactly the same.
However, when you release the 2nd fulcrum weight, the second pendulum slows down, and eventually comes to a stop.

Now let's Lead this conversation OUT to the water wells, where this device is used as a pump, by it's inventor::
this pump requires energy INPUT, to keep it running. The specs are available on his company's website.

As I expected, your calculation never considered the effect of Centrifugal Force.  Please recheck your calculations.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2015, 12:56:14 PM
As I expected, your calculation never considered the effect of Centrifugal Force.  Please recheck your calculations.
A centrifugal force poses no load to the system, hence it cannot be considered to be a contributor to do work.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2015, 02:04:54 PM
Where?
Here:
http://www.overunity.com/15090/dry-friction-and-the-milkovic-effect/ (http://www.overunity.com/15090/dry-friction-and-the-milkovic-effect/)


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 01, 2015, 03:15:14 PM

Reactive power poses no load and can not be converted to do work.

I thought that this is questioned, and is thought to be a basis for OU. (EVGRAY yahoo group etc).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 01, 2015, 04:32:32 PM
The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier works.  It is prevented from publishing and marketing because of State Secret.
And yet you claim to be releasing this "state secret". The common denominator to your claims is that all we see are excuses as to why there is no proof of these supposed wonders of science.
Quote

The Chan Wheel works and I have it in Hong Kong.  It can demonstrate that a balanced wheel will not lift the Weight and the Unbalanced Wheel can easily do so.  The lead-out energy is equal to (m1-m2)gh in case of the pendulum.
By works do you mean that the wheel can execute as many cycles as we might wish to observe each time delivering energy to an external load without the aid of an externally applied energy source?  Or do you mean something trite and silly such as the device moves once and without additional external energy stops?
Quote

The Centrifugal Force must be added to the weight of the pendulum bob to provide the tension in the string.  This had not been taken into account in the past.
Please show your mathematics of the pendulum in the case of the Milkovic 2SO.

Over 50 QMOGENs have claimed to have successfully self-looped including Chas Campbell.  It is the Governments (USA and China included) putting their influence to prevent "a paradigm shift" that may affect the National Interest.
Thousands of Nigerian "princes" claim to have security cases in London and Amsterdam just waiting for some "trustworthy" partner to claim them.  No "QMOGEN" has ever been demonstrated to actually produce surplus energy.
Quote

[/b]I believe Lee Cheung Kin is right.  Governments have applied the technology in the Military applications.  They are far ahead compared with what we are presenting here today.

Spend US$100 or so.  Buy an old bicycle wheel and a lead weight.  Build a Frame and lever system similar to the Chan Wheel.  Prove to yourself that both the Milkovic 2SO and Chan Wheel are lead-out energy devices.
You said that $100,000 for the purchase of a WITTS QEG was no problem.  Why haven't you spent the $100. you say is all that is needed to prove these devices are all that you claim? 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 01, 2015, 05:11:36 PM
A centrifugal force poses no load to the system, hence it cannot be considered to be a contributor to do work.


Vidar

What's doing the work in this video? What's turning the flywheel? Would rotating a balanced weight with the drill motor do the same thing?

Lawrence is correct but there are limitations to this theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk7HuJgA0jY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2015, 05:20:20 PM
I thought that this is questioned, and is thought to be a basis for OU. (EVGRAY yahoo group etc).
It's ok to question, but nature will probably not change for that reason.

Vidar.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 01, 2015, 06:02:36 PM
What's doing the work in this video? What's turning the flywheel? Would rotating a balanced weight with the drill motor do the same thing?

Lawrence is correct but there are limitations to this theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk7HuJgA0jY
Force that is normal to the direction of motion exchanges no work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 01, 2015, 06:07:31 PM
Force that is normal to the direction of motion exchanges no work.
So basically, a lever does no work? :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2015, 06:15:13 PM
So basically, a lever does no work? :)
Correct if the systems follows a sinusodial function - basically an oscillation where the energy exchange between mass and suspension. Called reactive power/energy.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 01, 2015, 06:37:03 PM
Correct if the systems follows a sinusodial function - basically an oscillation where the energy exchange between mass and suspension. Called reactive power/energy.

Vidar

I agree. And that's the only reservation that I have that with Lawrence's theory. This will work when in resonance but quickly fails outside of that window (under load).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 01, 2015, 07:24:22 PM
And yet you claim to be releasing this "state secret". T
The great thing about state secrets is that the best ones are the ones where there is no evidence of them.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 01, 2015, 07:29:36 PM
So basically, a lever does no work? :)
Why would you think that the fact that force applied normal to the direction of motion exchanges no work translates to the idea that a lever exchanges no work?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 01, 2015, 07:30:07 PM
The great thing about state secrets is that the best ones are the ones where there is no evidence of them.
That may be the biggest state secret of all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
What's doing the work in this video? What's turning the flywheel?
The electric motor is turning the flywheel.


Quote
Would rotating a balanced weight with the drill motor do the same thing?
Yes. - Well, if connected directly to the flywheel.


The unbalanced weight is drawing more energy to run because it has to fight agains the inertia in the wooden structure/lever that is connected to the flywheel.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 01, 2015, 08:12:52 PM
It is good to see that many are discussing the technology sensibly.

It will be even better for some QMOGEN inventors to improve their self-running prototypes with unbalanced cylinders.

The best is for Tsinghua University to demonstrate their QMOGENs.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 01, 2015, 09:45:20 PM
It is good to see that many are discussing the technology sensibly.

It will be even better for some QMOGEN inventors to improve their self-running prototypes with unbalanced cylinders.
No such self-running prototypes have been shown to exist.
Quote

The best is for Tsinghua University to demonstrate their QMOGENs.
They don't have a working QMOGEN either.  It is only your fantastical claim that they do.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on March 01, 2015, 10:40:27 PM
What's doing the work in this video? What's turning the flywheel? Would rotating a balanced weight with the drill motor do the same thing?

Lawrence is correct but there are limitations to this theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk7HuJgA0jY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk7HuJgA0jY)

Where is the next video where he claims he will have the power in and out?
I did not find it.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on March 01, 2015, 10:46:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFpnsMTHgRM

According to resonant fractals, we must add pulse to the slingshot.

whatever that means.

http://www.resonantfractals.org/Magnetism/Flywheel.htm

It would seem that mankind has already found two methods of gaining Over unity energy in orbital systems.
In the one case we have a sling shot orbital maneuver, the second in the mass of a rotating wheel being pulsed under powered acceleration.

Now I know there is something legendary and epic about my recent YT videos, if you modify them with magnets for pulse we are taking
this to new levels of crazy shit.

Now I do not know who is writing this @ resonant fractals. But It ''seems'' backed up by solid examples wich in my opinion beats any crap I can hear on see on these boards

I have been trying to see how this could be done, via the inexpensive pulley route, I have heard about motors having their windins cut but am not sure, I have seen double belt, crooked frames
and what seems to be like abnorally high vibration and on purpose eccentrics.

Always extremely subtle.

But the magnet route as per paladium investment, seems highly controllable by an flexible electronic system for super experimentation and understanding, like the device from platinum.

12 magnets controllable? How does it work.

I imagine, ''quantum accident'' of guy in car, oscillating with rpm of whole. This story of reflected centrifugal and centripetal is perhaps the key after all those years.

How to activate and control? Everybody use hydraulics, and self timing flow switch I believe. If motor must accelerate, it cannot be always on.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 01, 2015, 11:14:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFpnsMTHgRM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFpnsMTHgRM)

According to resonant fractals, we must add pulse to the slingshot.

whatever that means.

http://www.resonantfractals.org/Magnetism/Flywheel.htm (http://www.resonantfractals.org/Magnetism/Flywheel.htm)

It would seem that mankind has already found two methods of gaining Over unity energy in orbital systems.
In the one case we have a sling shot orbital maneuver, the second in the mass of a rotating wheel being pulsed under powered acceleratio

Unless I am wrong...and I might be...the orbital slingshot is not overunity.  As in the case of Apollo 13, it simply allowed their return without any additional energy added from the spacecraft.  They were already moving faster than 25,000 mph (escape velocity from the earth) and going around the moon simply sent them back toward earth where a few course correction energy inputs needed to be added to maintain their course.
This saved massive amounts of energy required to decelerate and stop, and then accelerate back toward the earth.  Actually, I don't think this was an option as that would have required more energy than they had in fuel on board.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on March 01, 2015, 11:22:59 PM
Hello Pirate,

No he mentions lower in the text the slingshot as being also pulsed.

He does a bad intro about that one.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 01, 2015, 11:32:49 PM
Now that the discussions are on scientific basis, I would like to add the following:

1.  The varying Centrifugal Force of the Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder will cause the axle to vibrate.  This vibration or oscillation will lead-out gravitational energy.

2.  If this additional energy is immediately transferred via a loose belt pulley system to another axle, the lead-out gravitational energy does useful work. (Chas Campbell arrangement)

3.  Even in the case of a perfectly balanced wheel, if we couple it with a loose belt pulley system, a vibration will be produced.  This vibration will also lead-out gravitational energy.

4.  Thus it appears a belt type system is better than a tooth type system if we want to lead-out and use the lead-out energy.

5.  Can we consider the vibrations caused by the varying Centrifugal Force as pulses?  Control via transferring the energy via belt and pulley to another axle?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 01, 2015, 11:41:21 PM
Lawrence:

With all due respect...I disagree totally.

#1  The vibration will cause or induce additional friction which is never good in any rotating device and is a negative. It is a big loss in efficiency.
#2  A loose belt is also another good way of introducing a loss into any belt driven system.  Your car alternator does not charge your battery as it should with a loose belt.  This is a loss of efficiency...not a gain.

#3  See 1 and 2.

#4  This conclusion is wrong.  A toothed belt stops slipping which aids in a belt driven system.  A slipping belt produces heat, which in this case would seem to be a waste of the input energy right?  There is no way a system like this can offer any ADDITIONAL energy from the input...only losses that are far less than was is put in.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 01, 2015, 11:49:54 PM
Lawrence:

With all due respect...I disagree totally.

#1  The vibration will cause or induce additional friction which is never good in any rotating device and is a negative. It is a big loss in efficiency.
#2  A loose belt is also another good way of introducing a loss into any belt driven system.  Your car alternator does not charge your battery as it should with a loose belt.  This is a loss of efficiency...not a gain.

#3  See 1 and 2.

#4  This conclusion is wrong.  A toothed belt stops slipping which aids in a belt driven system.  A slipping belt produces heat, which in this case would seem to be a waste of the input energy right?  There is no way a system like this can offer any ADDITIONAL energy from the input...only losses that are far less than was is put in.

Bill

Can some of the heat be due to lead-out gravitational energy?

Can we transfer such gravitational energy fast enough to prevent excessive vibration and heat production?

Think outside the box...

The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is not a hoax.  I am sure that a good experimenter or organization with proper resources will be able to reproduce it.  Unbalanced Wheels or Cylinder are not that difficult to make.

I am not the one to make it. Let others shine.

The scientific observation is that the balanced Chan Wheel will not lift the Weight.  The Unbalanced Chan Wheel will.  This can be confirmed easily worldwide...

The Taiwan Maglev QMOGEN system suspends the axle on magnets.  The axle is allowed to move up and down.  The Maglev has been demonstrated on TV and are gearing for production.  Controlled vibration is good?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 01, 2015, 11:50:21 PM
Now that the discussions are on scientific basis, I would like to add the following:

1.  The varying Centrifugal Force of the Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder will cause the axle to vibrate.  This vibration or oscillation will lead-out gravitational energy.
There is no objective evidence of such a thing.
Quote

2.  If this additional energy is immediately transferred via a loose belt pulley system to another axle, the lead-out gravitational energy does useful work. (Chas Campbell arrangement)
there is no additional energy to transfer.
Quote

3.  Even in the case of a perfectly balanced wheel, if we couple it with a loose belt pulley system, a vibration will be produced.  This vibration will also lead-out gravitational energy.
No such vibrations lose energy flexing the supporting structures and generating waste heat.  They reduce the already under unity efficiency.
Quote

4.  Thus it appears a belt type system is better than a tooth type system if we want to lead-out and use the lead-out energy.
Neither scheme "leads-out" energy.
Quote

5.  Can we consider the vibrations caused by the varying Centrifugal Force as pulses?  Control via transferring the energy via belt and pulley to another axle?
You can consider whatever you like.  What you cannot do is show that these schemes actually result in surplus energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 02, 2015, 01:09:26 AM
http://pesn.com/2013/12/07/9602402_QMoGen-Patent-found/

US patent office granted a QMOGEN patent! ...an awarded US Patent 7,095,126 B2 by Jesse McQueen, for a QMoGen. So now we can't say there are no patents that we know of for a machine of this type.

"There have been four witnesses to the device which was built in order to obtain the patent. The U.S. Patent was awarded after reviewing the data and mathematics provided by McQueen."

The article appeared in December 2013. 

Is QMOGEN technology legitimate???


Tsinghua University has one since 1996.  The lead-out energy theory explains its workings.  Divine Wine is flowing...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 02, 2015, 04:19:02 AM
Patent examinations do not constitute studies to determine if something works.    Patent applications are rejected for lack of utility when they so blatantly violate known physics that there is no question that they cannot work.  It takes very little to overcome such a rejection.  As a result there exist a great multitude of patents that are completely useless and inoperable as every single QMOGEN claim has turned out to be.  Since a patent application and any awarded patent are invalid if the invention claims cannot be practiced by one with ordinary skill in the art without undue experimentation:  Take the subject patent and attempt to build a working free energy machine from what it teaches.  You will fail.

No one:  Not you not anyone from Tsinghua University, not any of your imaginary government oepratives can demonstrate a working QMOGEN that produces surplus energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 02, 2015, 04:26:03 AM
"There have been four witnesses to the device which was built in order to obtain the patent. The U.S. Patent was awarded after reviewing the data and mathematics provided by McQueen."
The Golden Plates for the Book of Mormon had eleven witnesses.  Do you believe in those too?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 02, 2015, 04:32:02 AM
Where is the next video where he claims he will have the power in and out?
I did not find it.

Norman

There isn't one. How do I know? Because its my video... :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 02, 2015, 06:59:02 AM
My patent applications both in US and China were rejected because they were classified as impossible perpetual motion machines.

On communication with the patent office - if I can demonstrate a working prototype to their satisfaction, they will reconsider.

I believe the US patent office was "satisfied" with a working prototype and  awarded US Patent 7,095,126 B2 to Jesse McQueen.  If the US patent Office was consistent in their work and satisfied with a working prototype, the prototype had to have worked including the self-running after starting.

I consider the following "lead-out" Energy devices as confirmed:
1. Milkovic 2SO
2. Chan Wheel
3. Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier
4. Witts generator
5. Ymnee QMOGEN
6. McQueen QMOGEN

There may be more but I have not had the chance to examine them.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 02, 2015, 07:33:49 AM
Now that the discussions are on scientific basis, I would like to add the following:

1.  The varying Centrifugal Force of the Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder will cause the axle to vibrate.  This vibration or oscillation will lead-out gravitational energy.
This vibration will cause the inertia of the flywheel to require energy input to sustain rotation. So it's correct it will potentially deliver energy, but on the expense of energy input.

Quote
2.  If this additional energy is immediately transferred via a loose belt pulley system to another axle, the lead-out gravitational energy does useful work. (Chas Campbell arrangement)
So there is no additional energy due to the explanation above

Quote
3.  Even in the case of a perfectly balanced wheel, if we couple it with a loose belt pulley system, a vibration will be produced.  This vibration will also lead-out gravitational energy.
Nope

Quote
4.  Thus it appears a belt type system is better than a tooth type system if we want to lead-out and use the lead-out energy.
No comment

Quote
5.  Can we consider the vibrations caused by the varying Centrifugal Force as pulses?  Control via transferring the energy via belt and pulley to another axle?
In the field of gravity we can consider the varying centrifugal forces as sinuodial, not pulses. If you had put a force-meter in the axle, and fed the readings into an oscilloscope, you would see a sinewave.

I repeat what other members here has mentioned: Without a physical working device, based on the principle in simulations, we cannot say or claim there is over unity going on. A physical experiment will finally reveal the real workings of such a device. Too often people miss out elements in the calculus. Elements that is ignored or overlooked. So again, physical experiments that measures energy input and energy output is the ONLY way to verify the real workings of a device.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 02, 2015, 07:57:24 AM
My patent applications both in US and China were rejected because they were classified as impossible perpetual motion machines.

On communication with the patent office - if I can demonstrate a working prototype to their satisfaction, they will reconsider.

I believe the US patent office was "satisfied" with a working prototype and  awarded US Patent 7,095,126 B2 to Jesse McQueen.  If the US patent Office was consistent in their work and satisfied with a working prototype, the prototype had to have worked including the self-running after starting.
It is trivial to check the USPTO PAIR records to find that what you say you believe is BS.  The prosecution records show that McQueen altered the language of his application to remove any statements that the device self-sustains.  He changed the language to state that the device "improves efficiency".  The prosecution records do not include any demonstration of the claimed invention.
Quote

I consider the following "lead-out" Energy devices as confirmed:
1. Milkovic 2SO
2. Chan Wheel
3. Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier
4. Witts generator
5. Ymnee QMOGEN
6. McQueen QMOGEN
As demonstrated above, you do not perform even trivial diligence.  You can believe that the Easter Bunny funds the retirement of deserving individuals with equal confidence to your above declared beliefs.
Quote
There may be more but I have not had the chance to examine them.
The fact is that you have not performed a competent examination of any of the above listed devices.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 02, 2015, 08:18:31 AM
The electric motor is turning the flywheel.

Only in the sense that they are harmonically coupled and energy is indirectly transferred from the motor to the flywheel. The motor does not directly turn the flywheel.

I can accelerate the motor and the flywheel will accelerate. If I accelerate to quickly or add too much load, the coupling falls apart. This is the major flaw in these two stage devices.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 02, 2015, 09:54:44 AM
Monthly Meeting on March 8, 2015 (Sunday) from 2 pm in the Office of Peter Chan
Open to all who are interested.  Email lawrencetseung@yahoo.com to confirm participation.

Place:

Office of  Mr. Peter Chan
Unit C, 15/F, Block 1
Tai Ping Ind. Center
57 Ting Kok Road
Tai Po, N.T.
Hong Kong

Agenda:

Available for experiments
Chan Wheel, Yuen Wheel, horizontal and vertical magnetic suspension.

Agenda
1.   Introduce the participants
2.   Introduction to QMOGENs
3.   The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN
4.   Other self-running QMOGENs including WITTS and YMNEE
5.   Open Discussions
6.   Dinner (optional at HK$100 per person)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 02, 2015, 11:40:23 AM
The US patent related to QMOGEN.

Cannot find the PCT patent yet.

If there were no international filing, building it outside US is legitimate?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 02, 2015, 03:01:32 PM
It's ok to question, but nature will probably not change for that reason.

...unless the initial supposition, however widely taught in schools etc, is wrong, (like the domain theory of magnetism).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 02, 2015, 03:14:46 PM
The US patent related to QMOGEN.

Cannot find the PCT patent yet.

If there were no international filing, building it outside US is legitimate?
...unless it is patented elsewhere.

But it does not mention eccentric shaft loads, loose belts etc.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 02, 2015, 03:53:06 PM
The US patent related to QMOGEN.

Cannot find the PCT patent yet.

If there were no international filing, building it outside US is legitimate?
Anyone can attempt to practice the patent.  They cannot practice it in commerce.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 02, 2015, 06:56:06 PM
The US patent related to QMOGEN.

Cannot find the PCT patent yet.

If there were no international filing, building it outside US is legitimate?
This patent has to be a no hoper. A motor simply connected to a generator? One of the claims has a gear box in the train. Has anyone even claimed to have replicated it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on March 02, 2015, 06:58:22 PM
That's hilarious. The McQueen patent is unenforceable for several reasons. It should never have been granted in the first place and could not withstand a court challenge, as it relies on prior art that was publicly disclosed long before McQueen filed his first application. Not only that... IT DOESN'T EVEN WORK. I know for a fact that McQueen still gets his electricity from the local city mains supply in Woodville, and still pays full rate for it.

http://pesn.com/2013/12/07/9602402_QMoGen-Patent-found/ (http://pesn.com/2013/12/07/9602402_QMoGen-Patent-found/)

The whole "working with the UN" story is simply a lie.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 02, 2015, 08:03:10 PM
Divine Guidance:
 
 
Tseung: “Lord, you cured my stroke in 1997.  The vision was to work on Alternative Energy.  I have completed the lead-out energy theory and have a working Chan Wheel.  What should be my next step?”
 
 
Guidance: “Just promote it against all obstacles.  You are not an inventor.  You invented nothing.  You are not an engineer.  You built nothing.  Your role in this is to present the scientific truth.  There will be strong objections or roadblocks.  Your role is to remove these roadblocks.”
 
 
Tseung: “Galileo presented the truth.  His opponent was the very powerful Church.  The priests and the scholars fought against him.  I present the lead-out energy truth.   The opponents are the scientists believing that the lead-out theory violates the Law ofr Conservation of Energy.  The debunkers in this forum are not always polite but they will prepare for the much more difficult battle ahead.”
 
 
Guidance: “You are in a privileged position.  You do not need to worry about fame or fortune.  You are too old to be tempted by drugs, alcohol,  etc.  All you need to do is to present the truth.  Sow the seeds.  Others will do the watering, fertilizing, weeding and harvesting.”
 
 
Tseung: “Thank you.  I shall continue to post and run the monthly meetings until my last breath.  Amen.”
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 02, 2015, 08:20:01 PM
...unless it is patented elsewhere.

But it does not mention eccentric shaft loads, loose belts etc.

The good thing about the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is that it has the three unbalanced cylinders.  That separate arrangement clearly leads-out gravitational energy.  (An unbalanced wheel is just a superset of the pendulum)..g.
 
Most wheels especially those made by unfunded inventors, are somewhat unbalanced.
 
Most QMOGENs require much tinkering - listen to the interview with Mcgreen or read the Sterling Allan article.  The Tinkering may result in "appropriate unbalancing". ;)
 
Lead-out energy theory allows almost any mechanical set up.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 02, 2015, 08:26:41 PM
That's hilarious. The McQueen patent is unenforceable for several reasons. It should never have been granted in the first place and could not withstand a court challenge, as it relies on prior art that was publicly disclosed long before McQueen filed his first application. Not only that... IT DOESN'T EVEN WORK. I know for a fact that McQueen still gets his electricity from the local city mains supply in Woodville, and still pays full rate for it.

http://pesn.com/2013/12/07/9602402_QMoGen-Patent-found/ (http://pesn.com/2013/12/07/9602402_QMoGen-Patent-found/)

The whole "working with the UN" story is simply a lie.

When Thomas Edison showed the first light bulb, I am sure he was still burning candles.
 
You are too intelligent to use the word "lie".  You are capable of building a Chan Wheel.  Have you done it yet?  I am sure that you can imrove it to a working QMOGEN.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 02, 2015, 08:27:56 PM
Tseung: “Lord, you cured my stroke in 1997.  The vision was to work on Alternative Energy.
Me: Are you sure visions received when your brain is deprived of blood is such a great basis for pursuing something?
Quote
I have completed the lead-out energy theory and have a working Chan Wheel.
Me: Is this Chan Wheel running your house?  Then go build a bigger one until it does.
Quote
Just promote it against all obstacles.
Me: I never really envisioned the almighty as being interested in marketing this much.
Quote
There will be strong objections or roadblocks.
Me: As with all stupid ideas.
Quote
Your role is to remove these roadblocks.
Me: By hunting down your opponents and displaying their heads on pikes.  Your enemies will fear you then.
Quote
Tseung: “Galileo presented the truth.  His opponent was the very powerful Church.  The priests and the scholars fought against him.
Me:Did your otherworldly adviser tell you that it wasn't about the shape of the earth?   The irony is that Galileo had significant data that fit his theory (however it also fit the Tychonian model) you don't appear to have any data.
Quote
You are too old to be tempted by drugs, alcohol
Me: Tell that to Mick Jagger.
Quote
All you need to do is to present the truth.
Me: Preferably in the form of having your house powered by a lopsided wheel or whatever nonsense you've re-invented.  See you can fabricate or have hallucinations about aliens telling you that people will oppose your idiot idea because of some reason other than the evidence but you seem to forget that if your house or town was being powered by this then there would be considerably less to argue about.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 02, 2015, 08:56:28 PM

When Thomas Edison showed the first light bulb, I am sure he was still burning candles.
 
You are too intelligent to use the word "lie".  You are capable of building a Chan Wheel.  Have you done it yet?  I am sure that you can imrove it to a working QMOGEN.
McQueen filed his application in 2005.  Ten years later he's not "eating his own dog food".

Where is your working Chan wheel?  Where is anyone else's working Chan wheel?  Show but one and the world is your oyster.  The trouble of course is that you are not able to do that.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 02, 2015, 09:38:17 PM
When Thomas Edison showed the first light bulb, I am sure he was still burning candles.
Joseph Swan however had his house lit by 1880.
Quote

You are capable of building a Chan Wheel.  Have you done it yet?
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Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on March 02, 2015, 09:45:07 PM

When Thomas Edison showed the first light bulb, I am sure he was still burning candles.
 
You are too intelligent to use the word "lie".  You are capable of building a Chan Wheel.  Have you done it yet?  I am sure that you can imrove it to a working QMOGEN.

You said that money was no object and that you could easily donate 100,000 dollars to WITTS to buy a working QEG. Have you done it yet?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 02, 2015, 09:48:10 PM
Joseph Swan however had his house lit by 1880.


Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.Stupid.
Please edit your comment with a few line shifts. We have to scroll 35 miles to the right to click "Post".


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 02, 2015, 09:55:31 PM
Please edit your comment with a few line shifts. We have to scroll 35 miles to the right to click "Post".


Vidar
Fixed.  I didn't think it was any worse than some of the enormous pics people post in other threads.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 02, 2015, 10:37:56 PM
Fixed.  I didn't think it was any worse than some of the enormous pics people post in other threads.
Totally agree with you on that one. Not neccessary to post billion x trillion pixel images  :D
I downloded paint.net. Picture editor with the most neccessary tools to adjust size, gamma, color, etc.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 02, 2015, 11:10:42 PM
Totally agree with you on that one. Not neccessary to post billion x trillion pixel images  :D
I downloded paint.net. Picture editor with the most neccessary tools to adjust size, gamma, color, etc.
I even hear there's a way to post *references* to images hosted elsewhere on the internet.  Not to mention places that will host images for free.   While I have the supersized of all supersized mobile plans it's nice to be sensitive to people who pay the more than usual usury for wireless access.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 03, 2015, 12:35:12 AM
Pendulum Gravity Team from India   

Student project: Veljko Milkovic's Pendulum Pump (replica)     

Video #1: Gravity Energy Machines

This project is made by Harshil Padia, Amey Patel, Jatan Desai and Vinay Sawant who are the students of Shri. Bhaghubhai Mafatlal Polytechnic  from the Department of Mechanical Engineering. This is their last year Diploma Project. This video is intended to show their work from last 2 years.  They are still working on this project...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_pc2jEkKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_pc2jEkKI)   

Video #2: Gravity Energy Machines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMT5iroonE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMT5iroonE4)   

Official Facebook Page of Gravity Team
 
Page is all about the project we are doing called GRAVITY ENERGY MACHINE
Our Present Project is all about "THE PENDULUM PUMP". It's made with the objective to reduce the efforts of farmers to draw water using hand pumps. This project is basically an attachment to conventional hand pumps which reduces the efforts required to draw water. This is achieved using double oscillating mechanism which gets advantage of gravity and inertia of its own pendulum to draw water. Mission in to make a device that efficiently utilizes the energy available from gravity.
https://www.facebook.com/gravityenergymachine (https://www.facebook.com/gravityenergymachine)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 03, 2015, 01:07:22 AM
Pendulum Gravity Team from India   

Student project: Veljko Milkovic's Pendulum Pump (replica)     

Video #1: Gravity Energy Machines

This project is made by Harshil Padia, Amey Patel, Jatan Desai and Vinay Sawant who are the students of Shri. Bhaghubhai Mafatlal Polytechnic  from the Department of Mechanical Engineering. This is their last year Diploma Project. This video is intended to show their work from last 2 years.  They are still working on this project...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_pc2jEkKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_pc2jEkKI)   

Video #2: Gravity Energy Machines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMT5iroonE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMT5iroonE4)   

Official Facebook Page of Gravity Team
 
Page is all about the project we are doing called GRAVITY ENERGY MACHINE
Our Present Project is all about "THE PENDULUM PUMP". It's made with the objective to reduce the efforts of farmers to draw water using hand pumps. This project is basically an attachment to conventional hand pumps which reduces the efforts required to draw water. This is achieved using double oscillating mechanism which gets advantage of gravity and inertia of its own pendulum to draw water. Mission in to make a device that efficiently utilizes the energy available from gravity.
https://www.facebook.com/gravityenergymachine (https://www.facebook.com/gravityenergymachine)

They can easily improve the efficiency of their devices with the Unbalanced Wheel or the Unbalanced Cylinder.  The pendulum is just a subset. 
 
This shows that many replicators failed to think outside the box. 
 
The Chan Wheel is in Tai Po, Hong Kong and is open to the Public every second Sunday of each month.  Its main purpose is to show that a Balanced Wheel cannot lift the Weight but an Unbalanced Wheel can easily do so.  The lifting of the weight is leading-out or bringing-in gravitational energy.
 
Top engineers are encouraged to build the Tsingjua University Energy Multiplier (best QMOGEN).  Some Universities plan to start that project after May with summer students.  There are wealthy individuals and organizations willing to participate.  (The money does not need to come from the pocket of retirees like me.)
 
I shall guide the discussion back to the experimental prototype of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN that can be implemented (assembled) by summer students in approximatley 3 months.  The planning and design are on-going.  Need focusing and not wasting time on useless comments.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 03, 2015, 01:59:10 AM
Pendulum Gravity Team from India   

Student project: Veljko Milkovic's Pendulum Pump (replica)     

Video #1: Gravity Energy Machines

This project is made by Harshil Padia, Amey Patel, Jatan Desai and Vinay Sawant who are the students of Shri. Bhaghubhai Mafatlal Polytechnic  from the Department of Mechanical Engineering. This is their last year Diploma Project. This video is intended to show their work from last 2 years.  They are still working on this project...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_pc2jEkKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_pc2jEkKI)   
As a gravity fueled generator the demonstration video is a complete fail.  Each device is driven by work supplied by the guy's hand.
Quote

Video #2: Gravity Energy Machines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMT5iroonE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMT5iroonE4)   
This machine visibly runs down as it consumes the initial energy imparted to the pendulum.
Quote

Official Facebook Page of Gravity Team[/b] 
Page is all about the project we are doing called GRAVITY ENERGY MACHINE
Our Present Project is all about "THE PENDULUM PUMP". It's made with the objective to reduce the efforts of farmers to draw water using hand pumps. This project is basically an attachment to conventional hand pumps which reduces the efforts required to draw water. This is achieved using double oscillating mechanism which gets advantage of gravity and inertia of its own pendulum to draw water. Mission in to make a device that efficiently utilizes the energy available from gravity.
https://www.facebook.com/gravityenergymachine (https://www.facebook.com/gravityenergymachine)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 03, 2015, 01:23:41 PM
The diagram in reply 2690 is modified to use available equipment and set up.
 
The Frame of the Yuen Wheel can be modified for the experiment.
 
One or more of the 4 availabole bicycle wheels can be used.
 
Need to contact a machine shop and a motor/generator retailer in Hong Kong or Shenzhen.  Try to work out some mutually win-win arragement.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 03, 2015, 03:18:09 PM
The diagram in reply 2690 is modified to use available equipment and set up.
 
The Frame of the Yuen Wheel can be modified for the experiment.
 
One or more of the 4 availabole bicycle wheels can be used.
 
Need to contact a machine shop and a motor/generator retailer in Hong Kong or Shenzhen.  Try to work out some mutually win-win arragement.
How much would this cost? I might be willing to fund this provided you can demonstrate a reputable way to test this AND when it fails you post a video of yourself on youtube - saying you are the deepest and most complete sort of moron.  Post it here under your name and never post about free energy again. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 03, 2015, 08:00:21 PM
An improved experiment design?
 
Some existing QMOGENs are already placed side-by-side.  The addition of an Unbaolanced Cylinder serves both as a flywheel to store energy and as a lead-out energy device.
 
It will take them little effort to check out this improvement.  Let them shine...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 04, 2015, 03:05:22 PM
An improved experiment design?
 
Probably not.

The output of the generator is not likely to please the motor.

Ideally, the motor should be a low voltage DC and the output of the generator should be rectified (if necessary) and fed to a battery which then supplies the motor at its stated voltage.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 04, 2015, 08:43:41 PM
An improved experiment design?
 
Some existing QMOGENs are already placed side-by-side.  The addition of an Unbaolanced Cylinder serves both as a flywheel to store energy and as a lead-out energy device.
 
It will take them little effort to check out this improvement.  Let them shine...
The vibrating unbalanced wheels inertia will slow down the motor when you try to take this energy out of it.
You cannot get more energy out than you put in. These QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNMGEN designs follows the laws of physics just as any other thing on earth. Nothing new or different just because a wheel is bouncing around due to its unbalanced features.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 04, 2015, 10:37:41 PM
A suggested design for the Unbalanced Cylinder to be used in the initial Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier replication experiment.

The End Plates can be solid to act as flywheels.

The goal is to check how much gravitational energy can be lead-out with different Unbalanced Cylinders and the other parameters such as rotational speed.

Different size and weight of the Unbalanced Cylinder will be tested.  See if a consistent relationship can be determined.

You are welcome to improve the suggested design.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on March 04, 2015, 11:23:11 PM
Hi Lawrence. See the following video which is supposed to demonstrate a self running solid state electronics
device which was created by 'Akula' (AKA Roman Karnouhov). Akula and his German business partners say
the device is now quite stable and they are looking for serious investors who are interested in developing
such a device to contact them. They provide their contact email in the video. Since you said you know of
investors who are interested in investing in such devices, I though I would draw it to your attention, although
you may have already seen the video. Read the video's description section comments for more details.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cSXYeGsO9o
I have never seen Akula's devices in person, so I can't say whether his devices are legitimate or not.
Any potential investor would have to arrange to conduct their own tests to determine that for themselves.

All the best...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 02:22:54 AM
Lawrence:

Here is an easy experiment for you.  Drive your car as you normally would for a few miles.  Note how hard you need to push on the accelerator pedal to get to certain speeds.  Make some mental notes of this at different speeds...say...20...30...40...mph.
Now, not only do you remove the balancing wheel weights on your tires, you need to tape a 1 pound weight on the inside edge of each wheel.
Repeat the above experiment and then tell me how an unbalanced wheel adds energy into a system.  I believe you will find that even doing 10 mph with your unbalanced wheels will take more effort from your engine...not to mention making the vehicle very unstable and dangerous.  I would not suggest that you even try it at 30 or 40 mph as it would be very dangerous.  You will get my point at lower speeds and see that you need much more effort from your engine (ie. less efficient) using unbalanced wheels than with your balanced wheels.

This is easy to determine and might stop you from promoting this false assumption you keep making.  If what you are claiming is true, then your mileage would double on your car with the unbalance wheels and we both know that is not going to happen.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 05, 2015, 03:23:24 AM
Hi Lawrence. See the following video which is supposed to demonstrate a self running solid state electronics
device which was created by 'Akula' (AKA Roman Karnouhov). Akula and his German business partners say
the device is now quite stable and they are looking for serious investors who are interested in developing
such a device to contact them. They provide their contact email in the video. Since you said you know of
investors who are interested in investing in such devices, I though I would draw it to your attention, although
you may have already seen the video. Read the video's description section comments for more details.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cSXYeGsO9o
I have never seen Akula's devices in person, so I can't say whether his devices are legitimate or not.
Any potential investor would have to arrange to conduct their own tests to determine that for themselves.

All the best...

The three Venture Capital Groups I presented to had their technical people involved.  At lease one of them replicated the Chan Wheel the same day after the presentation.

They can do much better as they already funded Companies with well equipped machine shops.

The immediate response was:  The Unbalanced Cylinder appears to have merits.  The QMOGENs are not hoaxes.  (They have been approached by many "free Energy" inventors.)

They are profit motivated
.  I told them anything I know will be posted and become public knowledge.  They can seek inventors with working prototypes.  I am sure that they will look at the information here.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 05, 2015, 03:26:18 AM
The presentation to be used on the monthly meeting on March 8, 2015.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 05, 2015, 04:24:36 AM
Lawrence:

Here is an easy experiment for you.  Drive your car as you normally would for a few miles.  Note how hard you need to push on the accelerator pedal to get to certain speeds.  Make some mental notes of this at different speeds...say...20...30...40...mph.
Now, not only do you remove the balancing wheel weights on your tires, you need to tape a 1 pound weight on the inside edge of each wheel.
Repeat the above experiment and then tell me how an unbalanced wheel adds energy into a system.  I believe you will find that even doing 10 mph with your unbalanced wheels will take more effort from your engine...not to mention making the vehicle very unstable and dangerous.  I would not suggest that you even try it at 30 or 40 mph as it would be very dangerous.  You will get my point at lower speeds and see that you need much more effort from your engine (ie. less efficient) using unbalanced wheels than with your balanced wheels.

This is easy to determine and might stop you from promoting this false assumption you keep making.  If what you are claiming is true, then your mileage would double on your car with the unbalance wheels and we both know that is not going to happen.

Bill

Hello Bill,

Your example reminds me of Mr. Skinner's machine. I don't know if anyone has ever resolved whether it really works or not.

However, your point about the unbalance requiring more power didn't seem to show up in Mr. Skinner's device. As I'm sure you know, his machine was 4 sets of unbalanced weights or actually, 2 sets of 2 rotating, opposing weights that were always 180 degrees out of phase. Overall, the entire machine was perfectly balanced and if we believe the video, driven by a thin thread.

Best,
Charlie
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 05, 2015, 05:53:28 PM
Hello Bill,

Your example reminds me of Mr. Skinner's machine. I don't know if anyone has ever resolved whether it really works or not.

However, your point about the unbalance requiring more power didn't seem to show up in Mr. Skinner's device. As I'm sure you know, his machine was 4 sets of unbalanced weights or actually, 2 sets of 2 rotating, opposing weights that were always 180 degrees out of phase. Overall, the entire machine was perfectly balanced and if we believe the video, driven by a thin thread.

Best,
Charlie

Good observation, Charlie.

When I use the terms Unbalanced Wheel or Unbalanced Cylinder, I do not mean ANY unbalancing.  The value of the unbalanced weight need to be carefully selected and determined experimentally.

We know that the unbalanced weight will contribute to the Centrifugal Force.  The formula is:

F = m*R*w*w where m = mass, R = radius and w = angular velocity.

The Milkovic 2SO, Chan Wheel, Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier, William Skinner Device, etc. all use such Centrifugal Force to lead-out gravitational energy. 

Blindly use any unbalancing weight is like shooting in the dark...

But having a platform to obtain data to get to the right value is scientifically sound...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 05, 2015, 06:07:43 PM
Please show ANY device using gravity as an 'energy source' producing MORE energy out than in; using unbalance will not matter.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 07:03:29 PM
Good observation, Charlie.

When I use the terms Unbalanced Wheel or Unbalanced Cylinder, I do not mean ANY unbalancing.  The value of the unbalanced weight need to be carefully selected and determined experimentally.

We know that the unbalanced weight will contribute to the Centrifugal Force.  The formula is:

F = m*R*w*w where m = mass, R = radius and w = angular velocity.

The Milkovic 2SO, Chan Wheel, Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier, William Skinner Device, etc. all use such Centrifugal Force to lead-out gravitational energy. 

Blindly use any unbalancing weight is like shooting in the dark...

But having a platform to obtain data to get to the right value is scientifically sound...

Lawrence:

But earlier you were saying that both an unbalanced wheel and a loose drive belt lead out overunity.  I responded that an unbalanced wheel is less efficient as is a loose (slipping) belt.  Please show me ANY device that works as you describe that has been proven to work.  By proven I mean vetted by a reliable third party which would exclude Sterling.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 05, 2015, 07:15:39 PM
Good observation, Charlie.

When I use the terms Unbalanced Wheel or Unbalanced Cylinder, I do not mean ANY unbalancing.  The value of the unbalanced weight need to be carefully selected and determined experimentally.

We know that the unbalanced weight will contribute to the Centrifugal Force.  The formula is:

F = m*R*w*w where m = mass, R = radius and w = angular velocity.

The Milkovic 2SO, Chan Wheel, Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier, William Skinner Device, etc. all use such Centrifugal Force to lead-out gravitational energy. 
No, none of those devices do any such thing.
Quote

Blindly use any unbalancing weight is like shooting in the dark...

But having a platform to obtain data to get to the right value is scientifically sound...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 05, 2015, 11:24:11 PM
Please show ANY device using gravity as an 'energy source' producing MORE energy out than in; using unbalance will not matter.

@memoryman, Bill, MarkE,

One example of leading-out gravitational energy via Unbalanced Wheel and Centrifugal Force is the William Skinner device in 1939 driven by 1/8 horse power motor and cotton thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIRaJlTD4Y

I shall focus on the class of lead-out energy machines.  If these machines can lead-out or bring-in energy from the environment, the Law of Conservation of Energy will not be violated.  The correct Formula in the case of gravity is:
Einput + Egravity = Eoutput + Eloss
or
Eoutput = Einput + (Egravity - Eloss)

So long as Egravity is greater than Eloss, Eoutput will be greater Einput. 

The problem changes from producing the impossible perpetual motion machine to producing a lead-out energy machine.

The Raymond Head (RHEAD100) video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8) showed that the Weight W1 was lifted twice with each finger push.  This was the result of the Centrifugal Force plus the weight of the pendulum producing a varying clockwise moment.  When it was greater than the anti-clockwise moment of the weight W1, the lever tilted higher on the LHS.  The weight was lifted.  When it is smaller, the lever tilted higher on the RHS - returned to original position.

Notice that the original position (state) was reproduced with the finger push.  The energy used in the finger push is much smaller than the energy required to lift the weight W1.

From the energy point of view, the Output was m1gh.  Some of this Output was fed back to return the pendulum bob to the original position. That energy was m2gh.  Thus there was a difference of (m1-m2)gh.  If properly configured, this value would still be much more than that supplied by the finger push.  Where did this energy come from?

Another experimental observation was that the pendulum swing amplitude did not decrease.  Thus the excess energy was not transferred from the pendulum swing.

One scientific explanation was- energy was lead-out or brought-in from the gravitational field.

Thus the Milkovic 2SO is a lead-out gravitational energy device.  The Chan Wheel is a superset of Milkovic. I have the Chan Wheel in Taipo, Hong Kong. I can claim to have a working lead-out energy device in my possession...
If the Unbalanced Chan Wheel can bring-in gravitational energy, the Unbalanced Cylinder Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier can do better. 

The 57 QMOGENs compiled by Sterling Allan are all theoretically possible...

We are in the process of contacting the Taiwan Maglev of the Taiwan Edison Group.  Their invention was shown on Taiwan TV in July 2014.

The two most convincing QMOGENs videos on youtube are WITTS and YMNEE.  Both require reasonable rotational speed as expected from the Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory.  (Centrifugal Force varies as the square of angular velocity.)

I shall use this reply 2826 to answer all future questions on whether lead-out energy machines exists.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 05, 2015, 11:39:42 PM
you are confusing force and energy.
"I can claim to have a working lead-out energy device in my possession..." you can claim all you want; being able to demonstrate your claim with objective proof is something entirely different...
"The 57 QMOGENs compiled by Sterling Allan are all theoretically possible..." no, they are not.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 11:39:54 PM
@memoryman, Bill, MarkE,

One example of leading-out gravitational energy via Unbalanced Wheel and Centrifugal Force is the William Skinner device in 1939 driven by 1/8 horse power motor and cotton thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIRaJlTD4Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIRaJlTD4Y)

I shall focus on the class of lead-out energy machines.  If these machines can lead-out or bring-in energy from the environment, the Law of Conservation of Energy will not be violated.  The correct Formula in the case of gravity is:
Einput + Egravity = Eoutput + Eloss
or
Eoutput = Einput + (Egravity - Eloss)

So long as Egravity is greater than Eloss, Eoutput will be greater Einput. 

The problem changes from producing the impossible perpetual motion machine to producing a lead-out energy machine.

The Raymond Head (RHEAD100) video showed that the Weight W1 was lifted twice with each finger push.  This was the result of the Centrifugal Force plus the weight of the pendulum producing a varying clockwise moment.  When it was greater than the anti-clockwise moment of the weight W1, the lever tilted higher on the LHS.  The weight was lifted.  When it is smaller, the lever tilted higher on the RHS - returned to original position.

Notice that the original position (state) was reproduced with the finger push.  The energy used in the finger push is much smaller than the energy required to lift the weight W1.

From the energy point of view, the Output was m1gh.  Some of this Output was fed back to return the pendulum bob to the original position. That energy was m2gh.  Thus there was a difference of (m1-m2)gh.  If properly configured, this value would still be much more than that supplied by the finger push.  Where did this energy come from?

Another experimental observation was that the pendulum swing amplitude did not decrease.  Thus the excess energy was not transferred from the pendulum swing.

One scientific explanation was- energy was lead-out or brought-in from the gravitational field.

Thus the Milkovic 2SO is a lead-out gravitational energy device.  The Chan Wheel is a superset of Milkovic. I have the Chan Wheel in Taipo, Hong Kong. I can claim to have a working lead-out energy device in my possession...
If the Unbalanced Chan Wheel can bring-in gravitational energy, the Unbalanced Cylinder Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier can do better. 

The 57 QMOGENs compiled by Sterling Allan are all theoretically possible...

We are in the process of contacting the Taiwan Maglev of the Taiwan Edison Group.  Their invention was shown on Taiwan TV in July 2014.

Lawrence:

You did notice in that video link that you posted that there was indeed an electric MOTOR that was plugged into the grid driving that?
If indeed he got out all of the energy claimed vs input energy...then why does he need that motor at all?  Should it not be able to run itself then?

Do you see why we are all skeptical about these things?  He claimed 1200% more out than in.  Surely this would be way more than needed to run itself then right?

By the way...that 1/8 HP motor in the video was more like a 3 hp motor but...no matter.  1200% more out than in would easily allow you to loop the machine and you would not need any motor right?  1939 and we are still waiting.

Why?

Because, it does not work.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 01:00:41 AM
Please show ANY device using gravity as an 'energy source' producing MORE energy out than in; using unbalance will not matter.
...or elastic bands.  Seriously what effect of gravity can't be emulated with elastic bands?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 06, 2015, 01:10:02 AM
"Please show ANY device using gravity as an 'energy source' producing MORE energy out than in; using unbalance will not matter."
...or elastic bands.  Seriously what effect of gravity can't be emulated with elastic bands?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 01:33:49 AM
How does this prove that you can't get this with rubber bands. :)

Sorry I don't have the energy to look up which moron-land project this is from.  It's the one where the investors have ties to US Govt. security or something.  You all think they're ninjas.  Whatev.....yawn.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on March 06, 2015, 01:42:06 AM
Power is not energy, peak power especially is NOT energy. The UL graph shows peak power, it does not show average power sustained over a long interval. Most assuredly it does not show greater energy out than in, and the device under test cannot be self-looped, nor can it provide more _sustained_ power out than is input to run it.

Quote from: LTseung
The two most convincing QMOGENs videos on youtube are WITTS and YMNEE.  Both require reasonable rotational speed as expected from the Lee-Tseung lead-out energy theory.  (Centrifugal Force varies as the square of angular velocity.)

Both are hoaxes, cynical frauds attempting to get gullible people to give them money. They do not work as claimed.

I challenge you ONCE AGAIN, Lawrence: put your (or your backers) money where your claims are: Do what you said you could "easily do" months ago: Donate 100,000 dollars to WITTS and purchase a self-running QEG from Timmy Thrapp.

You will never do this thing you said could be "easily done", and I know why... and so do you.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on March 06, 2015, 03:20:11 AM
This video is interesting. It shows three types of unbalanced wheel configurations
and the types of vibrations/shaking they can cause in the frame holding the unbalanced wheels.
I may be misunderstanding what I was seeing, but it appears that at very high RPMs
the unbalanced wheels do not cause as much vibration/shaking on the frame, but at
a certain slower RPM range very large shaking/vibrations can occur in the frame.
In general is there a lot less shaking/vibration in an unbalanced wheel above a certain RPM?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2hO--TIjjA

All the best...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on March 06, 2015, 03:28:37 AM
What's unusual about that? Surely everyone who has worked with rotating/vibrating systems of any kind has encountered the same effects. At some speeds vibrations couple into the framework, at others they don't. It's simply mechanical resonance. I'll bet there are even rattles and buzzes in your car that happen at certain speeds but not at others.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on March 06, 2015, 03:48:39 AM
What's unusual about that? Surely everyone who has worked with rotating/vibrating systems of any kind has encountered the same effects. At some speeds vibrations couple into the framework, at others they don't. It's simply mechanical resonance. I'll bet there are even rattles and buzzes in your car that happen at certain speeds but not at others.

Hi TK, not sure if you are directing this comment to me as I said nothing at all about the video being unusual. ;)

I posted the video because it shows three different configurations of unbalanced wheels and the different types
of vibrations/shaking they can produce on the frame, and I was also wondering if in general there is less vibration and shaking
from an unbalanced wheel at higher RPMs, or if it is just that as long as you are above or below the RPM of the resonance
point of the entire system that there will be a lot less shaking and vibration. Maybe there is someone around who has
a good knowledge of mechanical systems that knows the answer.

All the best...


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 06, 2015, 04:05:38 AM
Hi TK, not sure if you are directing this comment to me as I said nothing at all about the video being unusual. ;)

I posted the video because it shows three different configurations of unbalanced wheels and the different types
of vibrations/shaking they can produce on the frame, and I was also wondering if in general there is less vibration and shaking
from an unbalanced wheel at higher RPMs, or if it is just that as long as you are above or below the RPM of the resonance
point of the entire system that there will be a lot less shaking and vibration. Maybe there is someone around who has
a good knowledge of mechanical systems that knows the answer.

All the best...
Generally, a resonance is more likely to get excited when a system is excited above the resonant frequency, because doing so there is a likelihood of subharmonics that are close to the resonant frequency.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on March 06, 2015, 04:13:07 AM
Generally, a resonance is more likely to get excited when a system is excited above the resonant frequency,
because doing so there is a likelihood of subharmonics that are close to the resonant frequency.

Ok, thanks. That's interesting.
All the best...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 07, 2015, 12:04:23 AM
Glad to see more active and constructive comments.

The working QMOGEN inventors are happy to have the roadblock removed.  There is at least one scientific explanation on the source of their energy.

Divine Wine is to be shared...

Lawrence
See reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 07, 2015, 12:33:51 AM
You are deluding yourself if you think that there is even ONE working QMOGEN out there.
None of these videos show one.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 07, 2015, 12:42:30 AM

UL test


Dear noonespecial,

Please supply more detail on the mentioned UL test.  Thank you.

Lawrence
See reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 07, 2015, 07:09:11 AM

I posted the video because it shows three different configurations of unbalanced wheels and the different types
of vibrations/shaking they can produce on the frame, and I was also wondering if in general there is less vibration and shaking
from an unbalanced wheel at higher RPMs, or if it is just that as long as you are above or below the RPM of the resonance
point of the entire system that there will be a lot less shaking and vibration. Maybe there is someone around who has
a good knowledge of mechanical systems that knows the answer.


While resonant theory, and equations can describe expected results, in Practice: the most determining factor is going to be the system's tolerances.
i.e.: how rigid the framework is, how securely its mounted to the ground or working platform, etc.
if its allowed to shake and vibrate, than such action is to be expected from an imbalanced rotating mass.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 07, 2015, 06:43:42 PM
Design of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Prototype.

I shall now focus on the design of the pulley and belt system.  The following points are considered.

1. A pulley and belt system can change the rotational speed easily.  When rotational speed increases, the transmitted torque will decrease according to traditional mechanics without lead-out energy.

2. With the Unbalanced Cylinder in place, the torque on the first axle (motor and cylinder) can be increased many times.  The transmission to the second axle (generator) can have both increase in torque and rotational speed.  The lead-out gravitational energy is transmitted.

3. The pulley and belt system can be loose when starting up.  This will put less stress on the motor.  The motor does not need to drive the generator initially.  Its energy is used to increase the speed of the Unbalanced Cylinder, increase its stored energy  and lead-out gravitational energy.  When appropriate rotational speed is reached, the torque and rotational speed is transmitted to the second axle.  The belt can be tightened.  This effectively is a clutch function.

The Chas Campbell device uses a belt tightening technique.  We may use a similar technique in the first prototype.  This can be accomplished via a distance separation mechanism between the first and second axle.

Some QMOGENs do not have the pulley and belt system.  Some do not have a visible flywheel or Unbalanced Cylinder system. Can the efficiency of such systems be increased?

The Milkovic 2SO can be improved by replacing the pendulum with an Unbalanced Wheel...

Lawrennce
See reply 2826

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 07, 2015, 06:56:17 PM
"The transmission to the second axle (generator) can have both increase in torque and rotational speed." Wrong, when considering a complete cycle, there is NO net gain.
please once and for ever demonstrate this concept of "lead-out gravitational energy".
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 07, 2015, 07:40:27 PM
http://pesn.com/2010/07/14/9501672_Terawatt_Research_LLC_defies_free_energy_stereotypes/

The motor on the top right turns the shaft connected to the red wheel, which is surrounded by impregnated magnets which cause the blue wheel on the left to spin, turning the generator on the upper left, which is capable of oscillating load fluctuations (patented).  At certain frequencies, the output is several times greater than the input.

The UL data from noonespecial is reproduced.  Energy from the second axle is more than that from the first axle.  I am sure that Terawatt Research can improve their efficiency with an Unbalanced Cylinder connected at first axle.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 07, 2015, 07:58:35 PM
http://pesn.com/2010/07/14/9501672_Terawatt_Research_LLC_defies_free_energy_stereotypes/

The motor on the top right turns the shaft connected to the red wheel, which is surrounded by impregnated magnets which cause the blue wheel on the left to spin, turning the generator on the upper left, which is capable of oscillating load fluctuations (patented).  At certain frequencies, the output is several times greater than the input.

The UL data from noonespecial is reproduced.  Energy from the second axle is more than that from the first axle.  I am sure that Terawatt Research can improve their efficiency with an Unbalanced Cylinder connected at first axle.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Five years later Terawatt Research is moribund.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 07, 2015, 09:48:02 PM
experimental data taken by outside parties, when invited to examine the TR assembly, indicated that TR was misreporting their data.

a synapsis of the device stated a delay in rotational velocity of the second (larger blue) wheel, the energy required to get this up to speed was not accounted for. The flywheel effect built up stored rotational energy from the input, before the generator was up to speed and producing power.

True input was much greater than the output of this device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 07, 2015, 11:16:49 PM
experimental data taken by outside parties, when invited to examine the TR assembly, indicated that TR was misreporting their data.

TR didn't report the data, UL and TUV Rhineland did.

Quote
a synapsis of the device stated a delay in rotational velocity of the second (larger blue) wheel, the energy required to get this up to speed was not accounted for. The flywheel effect built up stored rotational energy from the input, before the generator was up to speed and producing power.

True input was much greater than the output of this device.

Who were these alleged 'outside parties'? How are they MORE credible than UL and TUV Rhineland? Why would UL and TUV ruin their sterling reputation by publishing these test result if they are false?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 07, 2015, 11:34:31 PM
One has to be careful measuring any system that has a lot of vibration and particularly resonance in it.  The measuring intstruments themselves and how they are mounted are subject to resonances and can easily misreport.  In an energy generator application total energy in and total energy out over some significant time interval is what we would be interested in.  One way to obtain both reliably is to insert low-loss low pass filters at both the input and the output.  The black box can shake, rattle, and roll all it wants, but very little of that vibration will transfer to the instruments.  The instruments will see a steady torque load / source, and a steady rotational speed from which power in and power out can be reliably determined. 

TWR had two problems:  1) Their claims had no basis in established science.  2) The TUV tests did not include evaluation of the test system to determine its susceptibility to errors under the test conditions applied.  The fact that five years later they are moribund speaks to their inability to convince investors that they had what they claimed.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 07, 2015, 11:51:45 PM
So I guess we are being asked to believe that UL and TUV had absolutely no clue on how to properly test this device but tested it anyway and published the findings anyway..... :)

Who are these alleged outside parties that tested this and found it lacking? Just curious....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2015, 12:32:08 AM
One has to be careful measuring any system that has a lot of vibration and particularly resonance in it.  The measuring intstruments themselves and how they are mounted are subject to resonances and can easily misreport.  In an energy generator application total energy in and total energy out over some significant time interval is what we would be interested in.  One way to obtain both reliably is to insert low-loss low pass filters at both the input and the output.  The black box can shake, rattle, and roll all it wants, but very little of that vibration will transfer to the instruments.  The instruments will see a steady torque load / source, and a steady rotational speed from which power in and power out can be reliably determined. 

TWR had two problems:  1) Their claims had no basis in established science.  2) The TUV tests did not include evaluation of the test system to determine its susceptibility to errors under the test conditions applied.  The fact that five years later they are moribund speaks to their inability to convince investors that they had what they claimed.

The other way, and according to Lawrence this should be really easy, is to have it run itself...which of course, it can not do.  "Creating" all of that "extra" energy on the output vs. the input should make this a simple task...but...for some reason, they have not done that.

I have to ask....why?

I think we know why.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 12:39:40 AM
The other way, and according to Lawrence this should be really easy, is to have it run itself...which of course, it can not do.  "Creating" all of that "extra" energy on the output vs. the input should make this a simple task...but...for some reason, they have not done that.

I have to ask....why?

I think we know why.

Bill
By now, so do they, which is no doubt why their web site is moribund, and they have pulled what little technical information that they used to publish.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 08, 2015, 01:04:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpxOV-NrVGM
Another self looped device.  Applied to a Car.

Terawatt Research may be undergoing the same fate as many other inventions.  Investors demand confidentiality - Especially those who come in later with profit motive in mind.  (or suppressed by the US Government like the 225 HP motor?)

I have seen it with the Tong and Ting Wheels. 

Governments can easily suppress or advance the technology.  Internet was started by the US Department of Defense.  A Government is likely to do the advancing of the lead-out energy technology... Which one???  Taiwan, Singapore, Israel, India, Russia, Korea or Japan...

Divine Wine is for all to share.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2015, 01:10:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpxOV-NrVGM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpxOV-NrVGM)
Another self looped device.  Applied to a Car.

Terawatt Research may be undergoing the same fate as many other inventions.  Investors demand confidentiality - Especially those who come in later with profit motive in mind.  (or suppressed by the US Government like the 225 HP motor?)

I have seen it with the Tong and Ting Wheels. 

Governments can easily suppress or advance the technology.  Internet was started by the US Department of Defense.  A Government is likely to do the advancing of the lead-out energy technology... Which one???  Taiwan, Singapore, Israel, India, Russia, Korea or Japan...

Divine Wine is for all to share.

The Ting/Tong wheels are being suppressed by the US government?  How do you know this?  Does the government like send out a newsletter on energy suppression or something?  One would think that if they really are suppressing something, you would never know about it...right?

So, I believe that this is just YOUR false conclusion.  The real facts are is that those devices never worked.  I believe that you know this and are just playing games here.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 02:10:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpxOV-NrVGM
Another self looped device.  Applied to a Car.

Terawatt Research may be undergoing the same fate as many other inventions.
They are in all probability suffering the same fate as other claimed inventions that don't work:  capital death.
Quote
  Investors demand confidentiality - Especially those who come in later with profit motive in mind.
So what?  It's the fact that they have gone moribund that strongly suggests that they cannot attract investors.
Quote
  (or suppressed by the US Government like the 225 HP motor?)
Where is your evidence for this suppression you claim?  Oh that's right, like most of your claims you don't have any.  Suppression is your weak excuse for not having any evidence.
Quote

I have seen it with the Tong and Ting Wheels. 
Suppression?  Did you have your suppression cam going at the time?  Again:  Where is your evidence.  Oops!
Quote

Governments can easily suppress or advance the technology.  Internet was started by the US Department of Defense.  A Government is likely to do the advancing of the lead-out energy technology... Which one???  Taiwan, Singapore, Israel, India, Russia, Korea or Japan...
First there must be a technology to advance.  You have failed to show any evidence of these "lead-out" technologies that you claim.
Quote

Divine Wine is for all to share.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
And if there is no wine, then there is nothing to share.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on March 08, 2015, 05:48:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyRyDWqRPik

it seems credible.

must be related to flywheel shaking phenomenon.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 08, 2015, 07:34:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyRyDWqRPik

it seems credible.

must be related to flywheel shaking phenomenon.

Another QMOGEN.  Think in terms of Varying Centrifugal Force producing the oscillation to lead-out gravitational energy.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 08, 2015, 07:42:24 AM
The Ting/Tong wheels are being suppressed by the US government?  How do you know this?  Does the government like send out a newsletter on energy suppression or something?  One would think that if they really are suppressing something, you would never know about it...right?

So, I believe that this is just YOUR false conclusion.  The real facts are is that those devices never worked.  I believe that you know this and are just playing games here.

Bill

When Investors were interested in the Tong/Ting Wheels, they requested confidential arrangements.  I was involved first hand.  No more information came from the inventors.

The US and Chinese Governments both kept the 225 HP Pulse motor a State Secret.  They used their influence to stop or scare away my backers in 2006.  I was specifically told that I was suspected as a US spy by Mr. Lee Cheung Kin who has direct contact with the Chinese Military. There was an attempted car accident on me in Irvine, USA in 2010.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 08, 2015, 08:36:10 PM
I have used the technique of "claims" on reply 2826.

It makes it easier to "defend" and clarify.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 10:14:23 PM
Repeating the same nonsense does not make it real.

A cyclical machine that lifts a weight and then subsequently lowers that weight performs no work.  A 2:1 lever does not "lead-out" gravitational energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 09, 2015, 07:50:50 PM
The best Milkovic 2SO can do is to lead-out 2*(m1-m2)gh per complete oscillation.  The amount of energy available to do work per unit time (power) is limited.  The number of oscillation per second is governed by the length of the pendulum that cannot be changed easily.

The original Milkovic 2SO was used to lift weight and produce a loud banging noise for demonstration.  It was then used in a pump.  The efficiency and the power of the pump is limited. 

When the pendulum is replaced by the Unbalanced Wheel as in the Chan Wheel, the power delivered increased dramatically.  The maximum gravitational energy that can be lead-out per revolution is 2*m3*g*h1 where m3 is the mass of the Unbalanced Weight and h1 is the amplitude of oscillation.  The number of oscillations or revolutions per second can be increased from single digits to hundreds or thousands.

Thus the use the Unbalanced Wheel can produce power hundreds or thousands times that of the Milkovic 2SO.  The Unbalanced Cylinder as used in the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier can be dozens or hundred times that of the Chan Wheel.

I am sure that when Milkovic and team realized the above, they will refocus their effort on the Unbalanced Cylinder and produce practical devices that can produce (or lead-out gravitational energy) a thousand times more than their existing demonstration prototypes.

That will not be the end of the story.  They will use a motor to achieve the high rotational speed.  They will then use that rotation to drive a Generator.  Bingo.  They will produce another QMOGEN.

They will further investigate whether Magnetic or Electromagnetic energy can be lead-out in a similar way…

The research merges in the same direction.  Divine Wine flows…

Amen.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 09, 2015, 08:18:42 PM
The reason why there are so many QMOGENs is that the centrifugal force is given by the formula:

F = m*R*w*w where w is the angular velocity.

A motor can produce very high revolution (angular velocity).  The gravitational energy lead-out can be transferred to the Generator.  An unbalanced Cylinder will help in storing the energy and increase m and/or R.

Expect more QMOGEN claims in the coming months.

It is impossible for Governments to stop the lead-out energy technology now.  I doubt the Mcgreen patent can be used to stop the tide.  It may have some effect in USA and Australia where patents have been filed and granted.  But the rest of the World???

Amen.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 09, 2015, 09:56:07 PM
"They will produce another QMOGEN." and "The reason why there are so many QMOGENs' is ignoring the fact that NO  QMOGENs e3xist that actually deliver OU in any form; they are all prototypes that don't deliver.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 09, 2015, 10:18:20 PM
The reason why there are so many QMOGENs is that the centrifugal force is given by the formula:

F = m*R*w*w where w is the angular velocity.

A motor can produce very high revolution (angular velocity).  The gravitational energy lead-out can be transferred to the Generator.  An unbalanced Cylinder will help in storing the energy and increase m and/or R.

Expect more QMOGEN claims in the coming months.

It is impossible for Governments to stop the lead-out energy technology now.  I doubt the Mcgreen patent can be used to stop the tide.  It may have some effect in USA and Australia where patents have been filed and granted.  But the rest of the World???

Amen.
In order to stop something it must first start.  Do let everyone know when anyone can demonstrate a working "lead-out" machine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 09, 2015, 11:53:18 PM
"They will produce another QMOGEN." and "The reason why there are so many QMOGENs' is ignoring the fact that NO  QMOGENs e3xist that actually deliver OU in any form; they are all prototypes that don't deliver.

Should I believe Tsinghua University now that I know every detail of the theory and how it can be applied to their Energy Multiplier?

Or should I listen to debunkers who could not follow the physics? Or look but cannot see the Milkovic or the Chan Wheel?

Amen.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 10, 2015, 12:10:37 AM
Should I believe Tsinghua University now that I know every detail of the theory and how it can be applied to their Energy Multiplier?

Or should I listen to debunkers who could not follow the physics? Or look but cannot see the Milkovic or the Chan Wheel?

Amen.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Oh, really?  Is it your claim that Tshighua University claims that they have a device that multiplies energy?  Where may one find such a declaration by the university?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 10, 2015, 12:13:05 AM
No Lawrence. Of course if a youtube video is all the evidence you need, I can sell you many wonderful inventions: spontaneous teleportation, anti-gravity machines, magical lead-out gravity contraptions, potions that cure anything AND make you never age, and the list goes on.
Theory will always be trumped by conclusive demos, with other words DATA.
Again, show me ONE real demo of your lead-out gravity theory.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on March 10, 2015, 06:55:52 AM
Ltseung is as confused as us as to how these devices work. I believe he has conceaded that a few times now, his confusion.

This is just a theory wich he stubbornly defends, I dont believe its any use reminding him, he is like the immobile rock let it be.

I stipulate and continue to theorize that, an ac superimposed shock motion on a net positive acceleration will cause energy redirection from atoms @ a specific beat.

Yes its very vague, but I am trying to fit a specific puzzle piece, and this puzzle piece theory seems to match the best my needs for answers.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 10, 2015, 09:58:26 PM
Energy cannot be created, and yet we do not know how the big bang occoured - well, if the universe occoured from a big bang in the first place...
Now, here, on this planet, we cannot create energy or multiply it. Accept it, and live with it ;-)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 10, 2015, 10:09:28 PM
Energy cannot be created, and yet we do not know how the big bang occoured - well, if the universe occoured from a big bang in the first place...
Now, here, on this planet, we cannot create energy or multiply it. Accept it, and live with it ;-)
Treat laws as laws until reliable evidence shows that they are wrong.   

Lawrence is fixated on the idea that these various contraptions "lead-out" energy from what all reliable observations says is conservative fields meaning that they are incapable of "leading-out" any energy.  Now, if there is reliable observation that this "lead-out", IE non-conservative behavior has occurred, I think that there would be great interest.  Lawrence name drops universities claiming that they have recorded such observations.  I for one would like to see who made such statements and what information is available to reproduce such observations.  In the couple of days since I have asked for that for just Tsinghua University, Lawrence has been silent.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 11, 2015, 09:10:15 AM
Treat laws as laws until reliable evidence shows that they are wrong.   
...

Reliable evidence shows that the Laws are correct.  But the application to the Milkovoc 2SO is wrong.


Let me use reply 2826 in terms of Laws to do more explanation.  No Laws are broken.  Just wrongly applied in all these years.

1.   Law of Conservation of Energy

I shall focus on the class of lead-out energy machines.  If these machines can lead-out or bring-in energy from the environment, the Law of Conservation of Energy will not be violated.  The correct Formula in the case of gravity is:
Einput + Egravity = Eoutput + Eloss
or
Eoutput = Einput + (Egravity - Eloss)

So long as Egravity is greater than Eloss, Eoutput will be greater Einput.
 

2.   Changing the problem – no laws are violated

The problem changes from producing the impossible perpetual motion machine to producing a possible lead-out energy machine.

3.   The Law of the Lever – Clockwise and Anti-clockwise moments

The Raymond Head (RHEAD100) video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8) showed that the Weight W1 was lifted twice with each finger push.  This was the result of the Centrifugal Force plus the weight of the pendulum producing a varying clockwise moment.  When it was greater than the anti-clockwise moment of the weight W1, the lever tilted higher on the LHS.  The weight was lifted.  When it is smaller, the lever tilted higher on the RHS - returned to original position.

Notice that the original position (state) was reproduced with the finger push.  The energy used in the finger push is much smaller than the energy required to lift the weight W1.

Anti-clockwise Moment is always constant.  Clockwise moment varies as it is the sum of the force due to m2 and the Centrifugal Force.  The vertical component of the force due to m2 varies.  The Centrifugal Force also varies.

From the energy point of view, the Output was m1gh. Some of this Output was fed back to return the pendulum bob to the original position. That energy was m2gh.  Thus there was a difference of (m1-m2)gh.  If properly configured, this value would still be much more than that supplied by the finger push.  Where did this energy come from?

4.   Law of Experimental Observation – pendulum swing does not decrease

The experimental observation was that the pendulum swing amplitude did not decrease.  Thus the excess energy was not transferred from the pendulum swing.

One scientific explanation was- energy was lead-out or brought-in from the gravitational field.

5.   Extending the Law – from Pendulum to Unbalanced Wheel

Thus the Milkovic 2SO is a lead-out gravitational energy device.  The Chan Wheel is a superset of Milkovic. I have the Chan Wheel in Taipo, Hong Kong.  I can claim to have a working lead-out energy device in my possession...
If the Unbalanced Chan Wheel can bring-in gravitational energy, the Unbalanced Cylinder Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier can do better. 

The 57 QMOGENs compiled by Sterling Allan are all theoretically possible...

Lawrence
See reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 11, 2015, 09:25:28 AM
Emails have been sent to Tsinghua University, Taiwan Edison (maglev), Ymnee and QEG.

The Email informs them the explanation of the QMOGEN (reply 2826) and requests their cooperation to disclose more information on their technologies.

Insider information hints that the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier may still remain as a "State Secret" for now.  However, this is likely to change with the announcement of many more QMOGENs.

The replications of a simplified form of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier are being discussed at a number of Institutions in Hong Kong.  Some may remain confidential.  Some academic institutions indicate that they may disclose the entire procedure.

The group that is most likely to succeed first is from India.  That group owns an Electricity Power Station and sponsored the development of the Milkovic 2SO at some Indian Universities.  Most probably, the statement from them will include a working prototype and a product announcement at the same time.

I do not have to replicate the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier myself.  Let others shine.

The Divine Wine flows...

I shall continue to sow seeds and ignore the debunkers.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 11, 2015, 09:31:21 AM
Let me use reply 2826 in terms of Laws to do more explanation.  No Laws are broken.  Just wrongly applied in all these years.

1.   Law of Conservation of Energy

I shall focus on the class of lead-out energy machines.  If these machines can lead-out or bring-in energy from the environment, the Law of Conservation of Energy will not be violated.  The correct Formula in the case of gravity is:
Einput + Egravity = Eoutput + Eloss
or
Eoutput = Einput + (Egravity - Eloss)

So long as Egravity is greater than Eloss, Eoutput will be greater Einput.
All you have done is to declare that gravity is an energy source to your system.  But that is precisely the mighty fail in your evidence:  You have never shown any condition under which gravity is non-conservative, and therefore could be a source of energy.  Until you can come up with some evidence that gravity under some attainable circumstances is non-conservative, your "lead-out" ideas are dead:  full-stop.
Quote
 

2.   Changing the problem – no laws are violated
Er, no, you depend on non-conservative gravity.  That is an unknown phenomenon.
Quote

The problem changes from producing the impossible perpetual motion machine to producing a possible lead-out energy machine.

3.   The Law of the Lever – Clockwise and Anti-clockwise moments
Over 2000 years experience shows that levers manipulate force, not energy. 
Quote

The Raymond Head (RHEAD100) video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8) showed that the Weight W1 was lifted twice with each finger push.  This was the result of the Centrifugal Force plus the weight of the pendulum producing a varying clockwise moment.  When it was greater than the anti-clockwise moment of the weight W1, the lever tilted higher on the LHS.  The weight was lifted.  When it is smaller, the lever tilted higher on the RHS - returned to original position.
The weight rises and then falls to its original position.  That means the net work performed each cycle is ZERO.  If his system had no losses, then he would not even have to breath on it to keep it cycling.  The fact that he has to do work each cycle means that the system has losses.  It is dissipating his input without delivering ANY net output energy.
Quote

Notice that the original position (state) was reproduced with the finger push.  The energy used in the finger push is much smaller than the energy required to lift the weight W1.
Which for the reasons explained above only proves that the machine requires input to produce no output.
Quote

Anti-clockwise Moment is always constant.  Clockwise moment varies as it is the sum of the force due to m2 and the Centrifugal Force.  The vertical component of the force due to m2 varies.  The Centrifugal Force also varies.

From the energy point of view, the Output was m1gh.
That's true during part of the cycle.  In the other half of the cycle the output is -m1gh, resulting in ZERO NET OUTPUT EACH CYCLE.
Quote
Some of this Output was fed back to return the pendulum bob to the original position. That energy was m2gh.  Thus there was a difference of (m1-m2)gh.  If properly configured, this value would still be much more than that supplied by the finger push.  Where did this energy come from?
You have made critical accounting errors.  You fail to account for the energy lost when the weight falls again.  GIGO.
Quote

4.   Law of Experimental Observation – pendulum swing does not decrease
That is false.  He has to keep pushing on the pendulum in order to keep it going even though the system is performing NO USEFUL WORK.
Quote

The experimental observation was that the pendulum swing amplitude did not decrease.  Thus the excess energy was not transferred from the pendulum swing.
There is no excess energy.  The machine dissipates the input work that he supplies while performing NO USEFUL WORK.

One scientific explanation was- energy was lead-out or brought-in from the gravitational field.[/quote]Such an explanation is a complete fail because it attempts to account for something that is not observed.
Quote

5.   Extending the Law – from Pendulum to Unbalanced Wheel
There is no phenomenon of work performed, much less a law.
Quote

Thus the Milkovic 2SO is a lead-out gravitational energy device.  The Chan Wheel is a superset of Milkovic. I have the Chan Wheel in Taipo, Hong Kong.  I can claim to have a working lead-out energy device in my possession...
Thus you are unable to perform the simplest evaluation of a machine.  You claim a net output where no net output exists and descend into rationalizations after that.
Quote
If the Unbalanced Chan Wheel can bring-in gravitational energy, the Unbalanced Cylinder Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier can do better. 
Neither can.  Neither do.
Quote

The 57 QMOGENs compiled by Sterling Allan are all theoretically possible...
No, there is no valid theoretical basis why any of them should work as claimed.  Neither is there any demonstration of any of them working as claimed.
Quote

Lawrence
See reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Temporal Visitor on March 11, 2015, 11:54:22 AM
Over 2000 years experience shows that levers manipulate force, not energy. 

That's another invalid assertion MarkE.

Force is ENERGY known as MECHANICAL ENERGY with the ABILITY TO DO WORK. Levers provide "Man", men the means of manipulating MECHANICAL ENERGY, at MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE. (in some cases, and even animals as well)

You can't have it both ways MarkE since you already stated: "Foot pounds are units of ENERGY: 1 lb force applied through 1 ft distance." which describes a simple lever being acted upon by FORCE. (See:  Re: Flywheel devices « Reply #87 on: March 09, 2015, 07:52:35 AM » "Your key concepts are a confused mess.")

Please fully explain your CON-flicting assertions.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on March 11, 2015, 03:22:52 PM
The Email informs them the explanation of the QMOGEN (reply 2826)

Hi Lawrence. I read through your reply 2826, and there are no explanations in there
about how a QMoGen works that I could see.  The QMoGens demos that I have seen in videos do not appear to
use unbalanced wheels or unbalanced cylinders. If some of these devices really are over unity then
it appears they are working on some other principle other than gravity use/unbalanced wheels or cylinders.
The William Skinner device did appear to use eccentric shafts and weights, so it may possibly
fit to your theories however.

Here's one example of a 'QMoGen' type device. This could well be a fake however, as you can't tell at all from a video
if such a device is genuine or not, but, at any rate, this particular device just appears to use a fly wheel, and
I think possibly a modified electric motor, as they mention using neodymium magnets in the motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTLLnUOPOQk

All the best...


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 11, 2015, 04:15:27 PM

Force is ENERGY known as MECHANICAL ENERGY with the ABILITY TO DO WORK.
We have a language to share in order to communicate. It should be used properly.

Force x Distance moved = Work done.

Power = Work/Time.

If you check the units of force, work, energy and power, you will find this is so.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 11, 2015, 07:25:59 PM
Hi Lawrence. I read through your reply 2826, and there are no explanations in there
about how a QMoGen works that I could see.  The QMoGens demos that I have seen in videos do not appear to
use unbalanced wheels or unbalanced cylinders. If some of these devices really are over unity then
it appears they are working on some other principle other than gravity use/unbalanced wheels or cylinders.
The William Skinner device did appear to use eccentric shafts and weights, so it may possibly
fit to your theories however.

Here's one example of a 'QMoGen' type device. This could well be a fake however, as you can't tell at all from a video
if such a device is genuine or not, but, at any rate, this particular device just appears to use a fly wheel, and
I think possibly a modified electric motor, as they mention using neodymium magnets in the motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTLLnUOPOQk

All the best...

@Void,

Thank you for bringing out a very good point.  The best QMOGEN I know and keep stressing multiple times is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  It has the Unbalanced Cylinders.  The entire reply 2826 discussion is based with that QMOGEN in mind.

The William Skinner device is strictly Unbalanced Wheel using Centrifugal Force to lead-out gravitational energy.  It uses a 1/8 HP motor to drive the device to get greater power.

Many QMOGENs explicitly use Flywheels.  For the garage inventors, the chance of producing a slightly Unbalanced Flywheel is very high.  Dr. Raymond Ting replaced his flywheel with an explicit unbalanced flywheel.  (Bolting a hammer to a flywheel).  The resulting torque twisted the shaft.  The device shook so much that he had to stop the experiment.

The observation was clear - increased torque and increased energy.

The Chalkalis QMOGEN is clearly based on Unbalanced Wheel.  The Chas Campbell QMOGEN has loose belts and flywheel.

The Wang Wheel was deliberately designed to be unbalanced.  The Wang Wheel had 7 magnets. 

It is true that some QMOGENs such as the YMNEE does not have any explicit flywheel.  However, the Unbalancing might have been designed into their motor and generators. 

Some QMOGENs are actually "accidents" making replicating very difficult.  With slight unbalancing, the centrifugal force effect will show at higher rotational speeds.  That is the reason why many QMOGENs operate at high rotational speeds.  Their speeds can be greatly reduced if the unbalancing is deliberately built in such as the Wang wheel.

One other element is that - if gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy must be able to be lead-out in a similar fashion.  I have not covered this particular aspect thoroughly yet.

The power of the lead-out energy theory is to improve the Milkovic 2SO totally.  It will improve almost all QMOGENs with Unbalanced Cylinders.  The non-overunity QEG will become overunity if an unbalanced cylinder were added. 

Divine wine flows....

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 11, 2015, 07:56:34 PM
That's another invalid assertion MarkE.

Force is ENERGY known as MECHANICAL ENERGY with the ABILITY TO DO WORK. Levers provide "Man", men the means of manipulating MECHANICAL ENERGY, at MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE. (in some cases, and even animals as well)
No, force is very distinct from energy.  Energy is the integral of force applied through the direction of motion.  One can have all the force in the world and as long as that force is normal to the direction of motion, or there is no motion, no work is exchanged.
Quote

You can't have it both ways MarkE since you already stated: "Foot pounds are units of ENERGY: 1 lb force applied through 1 ft distance." which describes a simple lever being acted upon by FORCE. (See:  Re: Flywheel devices « Reply #87 on: March 09, 2015, 07:52:35 AM » "Your key concepts are a confused mess.")
It is you who do not understand very basic physics.  Read the quote again: 
Quote
Quote
"Foot pounds are units of ENERGY: 1 lb force applied through 1 ft distance."
  See the word "through"?
Quote

Please fully explain your CON-flicting assertions.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 11, 2015, 08:00:58 PM
@Void,

Thank you for bringing out a very good point.  The best QMOGEN I know and keep stressing multiple times is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  It has the Unbalanced Cylinders.  The entire reply 2826 discussion is based with that QMOGEN in mind.

The William Skinner device is strictly Unbalanced Wheel using Centrifugal Force to lead-out gravitational energy.  It uses a 1/8 HP motor to drive the device to get greater power.

Many QMOGENs explicitly use Flywheels.  For the garage inventors, the chance of producing a slightly Unbalanced Flywheel is very high.  Dr. Raymond Ting replaced his flywheel with an explicit unbalanced flywheel.  (Bolting a hammer to a flywheel).  The resulting torque twisted the shaft.  The device shook so much that he had to stop the experiment.

The observation was clear - increased torque and increased energy.

The Chalkalis QMOGEN is clearly based on Unbalanced Wheel.  The Chas Campbell QMOGEN has loose belts and flywheel.

The Wang Wheel was deliberately designed to be unbalanced.  The Wang Wheel had 7 magnets. 

It is true that some QMOGENs such as the YMNEE does not have any explicit flywheel.  However, the Unbalancing might have been designed into their motor and generators. 

Some QMOGENs are actually "accidents" making replicating very difficult.  With slight unbalancing, the centrifugal force effect will show at higher rotational speeds.  That is the reason why many QMOGENs operate at high rotational speeds.  Their speeds can be greatly reduced if the unbalancing is deliberately built in such as the Wang wheel.

One other element is that - if gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy must be able to be lead-out in a similar fashion.  I have not covered this particular aspect thoroughly yet.

The power of the lead-out energy theory is to improve the Milkovic 2SO totally.  It will improve almost all QMOGENs with Unbalanced Cylinders.  The non-overunity QEG will become overunity if an unbalanced cylinder were added. 

Divine wine flows....

Lawrence
see reply 2826
None of your cited devices perform net work in excess of the input.  None of them evolve net work from gravity cycle by cycle.  At this point you are slipping from foolishness into overt fraud.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 01:35:48 AM
Before we get too far into negating a suggestion that the U.S. government would or would not "suppress" technology...

Allow me to remind the readers of the historical accounts of great inventors John Searl, and Howard Robert Johnson.
Both of these cases represent well documented government suppression, with witnesses to substantiate the claims of the inventors.
As well as exists military and government technological documents supporting those claims.

While Searl's tech is confusing to most and there have been no successful replications,
(suppression)

H.J. did a good job at delivering his magnetic principals to the world, and many advancements in the field of magnetics are the result.
(attempted suppression)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 01:43:38 AM
@ltseung888      Lawrence

              You repeatedly reference the Milkovic device in attempt to support your theory.
This device has been thoroughly explained using the standard accepted physics of modern times, and has been experimentally proven to be operating under such described principals.

While, your intention to improve this device is admirable, as it would bring the technology closer to efficiency, which is our ultimate goal.
   The device, and the principals under which it operates need not be attempted to be explained by your Lead-Out theory of Energy.
As such device is not applicable.  I have studied your theory, and it seems evident that you do not understand it as well as you probably should, being its most devout promoter.
 Milkovic pump is NOT a Lead-Out device. It IS more efficient than our crude technology reminent of the 1800's that is still in use where these pumps are being employed, but the technology does not approach efficiency as of yet. There is no energy to be gained from that system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 02:14:36 AM
Before we get too far into negating a suggestion that the U.S. government would or would not "suppress" technology...

Allow me to remind the readers of the historical accounts of great inventors John Searl, and Howard Robert Johnson.
Both of these cases represent well documented government suppression, with witnesses to substantiate the claims of the inventors.
As well as exists military and government technological documents supporting those claims.

While Searl's tech is confusing to most and there have been no successful replications,
(suppression)
John Searl has never had any credible witnesses to his over the top claims.  His cooperation and assistance has failed to result in a demonstration of any of his: motor, energy, or anti-gravity claims.  It seems that John Searl must be his own greatest suppressor.
Quote

H.J. did a good job at delivering his magnetic principals to the world, and many advancements in the field of magnetics are the result.
(attempted suppression)
Except that none of HJ's magnet only motors ever completed even one full cycle.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 02:27:54 AM
Mark, I would compel you to examine your history on both of those subjects.

In his younger days, Searl was testified for by college professors, neighbors, and the like. As well as old still-photographs of what appears to be a very large spaceship in his back yard. Witnesses claim that it flew away and was never seen again.
Then there is a mysterious period of unexplained incarceration in a federal prison, his lab raided by the feds and his materials confiscated.
this was vouched for by a couple of investors he had pay for the development of his proprietary materials.


Howard Johnson invented a high-powered magnetic motor that the military actually USED!! although access to this information requires a certain security clearance, it most certainly exists.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 02:45:07 AM
Mark, I would compel you to examine your history on both of those subjects.

In his younger days, Searl was testified for by college professors, neighbors, and the like. As well as old still-photographs of what appears to be a very large spaceship in his back yard. Witnesses claim that it flew away and was never seen again.
Papp had a prop on his driveway that he claimed was a 300mph submarine.  A prop does not make a working unit.  Perhaps you could locate some of these witness statements? 
Quote

Then there is a mysterious period of unexplained incarceration in a federal prison, his lab raided by the feds and his materials confiscated.
this was vouched for by a couple of investors he had pay for the development of his proprietary materials.
He was arrested and imprisoned for stealing electricity.  After his release there were promises that he and his comrades would be able to put together a working SEG in about 6 months.  I think we are going on about 6 months and ten years now without any demonstration of anything out of the ordinary.
Quote


Howard Johnson invented a high-powered magnetic motor that the military actually USED!! although access to this information requires a certain security clearance, it most certainly exists.
So you are making a claim that you cannot produce evidence to support it?  But you insist the evidence that you cannot produce exists? 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 12, 2015, 04:01:38 AM
For those who cannot follow Physics Discussions, I have broken down the physics into baby steps.

Lawrence
See reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 04:04:52 AM
So you are making a claim that you cannot produce evidence to support it?  But you insist the evidence that you cannot produce exists?
No sir Agent Smith, I am completely unaware of Mr. Jonson's Involvement, nor why the United States would emplore an out of work salesman with a spinning coffee-table, to build advance jet engines, no sir.

I have know knowledge his teachings, the technology or the potential uses, thereof........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE)


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 04:05:21 AM
No external work is performed by the apparatus in your diagrams.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 12, 2015, 04:13:28 AM
No external work is performed by the apparatus in your diagrams.

You have to factor in the Lead Out factor.  You add 50% to the mass of M1 and then, as you can see, the mass of M1 has increased by 50%.

Simple.  Your adding the 50% Leads Out the 50% additional mass to M1.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 04:33:33 AM
For those who cannot follow Physics Discussions, I have broken down the physics into baby steps.

Lawrence
See reply 2826


Thank you, now,. Let's take a look at steps 5, 6, and 7: that's where you completely fall apart.
 
Exactly how much is " the video shows hardly decreases", and how does that decrease correspond to the energy placed into the swinging mass to begin with? It is very simple, as we discussed in the first 10,000 posts of this thread but you weren't paying attention then either....

The answer to your problem is  momentum= m * v, assuming the mass was initially at rest, is also the same energy imparted into the ball to get it swinging thus at said velocity, resulting in said swing-height, at corresponding frequency, to exert said perpendicular force that lifts the other end of the lever.
Now, go back through the equation and ......
account for this in the proper manner.

No energy led in or out, except through tangential-force, thus converted into momentum - which is conserved through the swing, except when its path of travel is altered as it approaches bottom dead center, and back again as it receeds
 resulting in a lower height of the next consecutive swing, a change in frequency, and loss of momentum, as the Input energy is consumed and the velocity of the swinging mass decreases.

Take a grandfather clock, and with simple conversion you can demonstrate the precise experiment, with both height and associated weights clearly available to you and various mechanism to transfer force to whichever plane of direction you wish, and the keeper mechanism to ensure that the lifted weight sustains the pendulum motion.

We have been using clockworks and weights to keep a pendulum moving for hundreds of years. Do this, and you can easily test how much "lead-out" energy you need to put into the pendulum to keep it moving.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 12, 2015, 05:09:23 AM

Thank you, now,. Let's take a look at steps 5, 6, and 7: that's where you completely fall apart.
 
Exactly how much is " the video shows hardly decreases", and how does that decrease correspond to the energy placed into the swinging mass to begin with? It is very simple, as we discussed in the first 10,000 posts of this thread but you weren't paying attention then either....

The answer to your problem is  momentum= m * v, assuming the mass was initially at rest, is also the same energy imparted into the ball to get it swinging thus at said velocity, resulting in said swing-height, at corresponding frequency, to exert said perpendicular force that lifts the other end of the lever.
Now, go back through the equation and ......
account for this in the proper manner.

No energy led in or out, except through tangential-force, thus converted into momentum - which is conserved through the swing, except when its path of travel is altered as it approaches bottom dead center, and back again as it receeds
 resulting in a lower height of the next consecutive swing, a change in frequency, and loss of momentum, as the Input energy is consumed and the velocity of the swinging mass decreases.

*** change in frequency???  Check the Physics...


Take a grandfather clock, and with simple conversion you can demonstrate the precise experiment, with both height and associated weights clearly available to you and various mechanism to transfer force to whichever plane of direction you wish, and the keeper mechanism to ensure that the lifted weight sustains the pendulum motion.

We have been using clockworks and weights to keep a pendulum moving for hundreds of years. Do this, and you can easily test how much "lead-out" energy you need to put into the pendulum to keep it moving.

Good.

Keep the scientific discussions going.  Knowledge is gained via discussions and experiments.  The discussions can come first.  Experiments will follow later.

Eight years ago, I made the mistake of doing experiments first - doing the Tong Wheel without adequate theoretical understanding.

Now, with 50 or more QMOGENs and more coming, I shall let others shine.

There is no need to get agreement now.  That is the nature of new scientific discoveries or inventions...  It is not majority wins. It is the scientific facts and evidence later.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 06:24:30 AM
You have to factor in the Lead Out factor.  You add 50% to the mass of M1 and then, as you can see, the mass of M1 has increased by 50%.

Simple.  Your adding the 50% Leads Out the 50% additional mass to M1.

Bill
Yes, it is very simple.  As long as we don't count what we put in:  We can have fantastic gains in what we get out versus what we choose to count.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 12, 2015, 08:00:09 AM
Actually, I was somewhat surprised that the first 10,000 posts did not raise the replacing of the pendulum with an Unbalanced Wheel.  The many implementations or replications of the Milkovic 2SO focused on large mass and large size.


The most important factor in Centrifugal Force is the angular velocity or rotational speed.


Many QMOGENs got it right.  Use motor to increase the rotational speed.


The best is still the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier - motor to drive Unbalanced Cylinders...


Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 08:59:49 AM
That still produce no external work, thus doing nothing for the input energy, thus being underunity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 12, 2015, 12:32:21 PM
Received email from Taiwan Edison to see if I want to be a distributor of Maglev.

Looks like the Maglev is real.  The first thing to do is to check it out.  It may be time to get the young and capable involved.

At least one QMOGEN is available for investigation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Void on March 12, 2015, 02:41:36 PM
Many QMOGENs explicitly use Flywheels.  For the garage inventors, the chance of producing a slightly Unbalanced Flywheel is very high.  Dr. Raymond Ting replaced his flywheel with an explicit unbalanced flywheel.  (Bolting a hammer to a flywheel).  The resulting torque twisted the shaft.  The device shook so much that he had to stop the experiment.

Hi Lawrence. The large flywheel in the video may well be from a commercial source such as a flywheel designed
for some industrial machinery. Also, it seems highly doubtful to me that a small imbalance in a flywheel
would cause the device to be over unity. If there was any significant imbalance in the flywheel then the
flywheel would likely cause very noticeable shaking in the frame. Sorry, but you appear to be really reaching to try to
justify your ideas, but the fact is if at least some 'QMogens' which do not use any unbalanced wheels or unbalanced
cylinders really do work as claimed, then it is simply not known (at least publicly) what is causing them to work.
All the best...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 08:23:22 PM
Received email from Taiwan Edison to see if I want to be a distributor of Maglev.

Looks like the Maglev is real.  The first thing to do is to check it out.  It may be time to get the young and capable involved.

At least one QMOGEN is available for investigation.
Why don't you publish that letter after blacking out any personal details about yourself?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 08:26:44 PM
No sir Agent Smith, I am completely unaware of Mr. Jonson's Involvement, nor why the United States would emplore an out of work salesman with a spinning coffee-table, to build advance jet engines, no sir.

I have know knowledge his teachings, the technology or the potential uses, thereof........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE)
It's really a shame that the rolling axle never makes it back around to the gate input.  Why do you think that is?  Do you think that it is because the axle ending position as shown is at a lower energy potential than at the start?  Well, Mr. Anderson?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 08:44:02 PM
It's really a shame that the rolling axle never makes it back around to the gate input.  Why do you think that is?  Do you think that it is because the axle ending position as shown is at a lower energy potential than at the start?  Well, Mr. Anderson?

Theres a few H J threads for that, its a little off topic. It can be made to enter into another gate, or loop back unto itself.
That video demonstrates the driving principal in its most basic form. The entrance of the field is modified to reduce repulsion at the front of the gate. "PE" with respect to the magnetic field only defines a point to point relationship within that field, not necessarily the kinetic energy of the path it took to get to that point. In an asymmetrical field these can be two greatly different values.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 09:07:52 PM
Theres a few H J threads for that, its a little off topic. It can be made to enter into another gate, or loop back unto itself.
AFAIK  HJ was never able to get his devices to complete a loop.  If he had succeeded then OU would be here. 
Quote

That video demonstrates the driving principal in its most basic form. The entrance of the field is modified to reduce repulsion at the front of the gate. "PE" with respect to the magnetic field only defines a point to point relationship within that field,
Yes, that's what a gradient does.
Quote
not necessarily the kinetic energy of the path it took to get to that point.
Paths have nergy potentials.  Kinetic energy is energy of motion.  The term has no meaning in the sense of potential energies in a field.
Quote
In an asymmetrical field these can be two greatly different values.
If by asymmetrical field you mean a non-conservative field:  IE a field where the path taken from a starting point back to that same point can result in energy gain or loss, then the problem you have is establishing a static magnetic field that is non-conservative.  That is what Steorn claimed to do and completely failed to demonstrate.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on March 12, 2015, 09:08:37 PM
Theres a few H J threads for that, its a little off topic. It can be made to enter into another gate, or loop back unto itself.
(snip)

Go ahead then, show it made to "loop back unto itself" and continue to operate on its own.

It's simple enough, isn't it? Then why don't you do it?

I know why, and so do you. No arrangement of permanent magnet "gates" adds any energy. Go ahead, prove me wrong! You cannot.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 10:10:07 PM
 
i don't want to flood this thread with arguments about a completely different device,
we can go to the H J threads and talk pages about it, but this one is for double pendulum. ^^
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 12, 2015, 10:10:39 PM
Hi Lawrence. The large flywheel in the video may well be from a commercial source such as a flywheel designed
for some industrial machinery. Also, it seems highly doubtful to me that a small imbalance in a flywheel
would cause the device to be over unity. If there was any significant imbalance in the flywheel then the
flywheel would likely cause very noticeable shaking in the frame. Sorry, but you appear to be really reaching to try to
justify your ideas, but the fact is if at least some 'QMogens' which do not use any unbalanced wheels or unbalanced
cylinders really do work as claimed, then it is simply not known (at least publicly) what is causing them to work.
All the best...

I shall focus on using the traditional physics to explain the Milkovic 2SO.  Look at the attached slide again.
 
If we replace m1 with a spring, the up and down motion will still be shown.  The lead-out energy will be "stored" in the spring.  The oscillation motion will still be evident.  At high rotational speeds, the amplitude of oscillation is expected to be less.  The centrifugal force would be so large that its effect will be more than that of gravity.  The lead-out energy, if not properly used, will cause violate shaking (as observed).
 
This oscillation energy can be transferred - thus using another axle as in some QMOGEN is a possible solution.
 
Understanding the workings of the Milkovic leads to the understanding of the QMOGEN.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 10:14:04 PM
Lawrence, cycle to cycle no work is done.  Why do you keep perpetuating the lie that work is done?  After one complete cycle the machine is back to where it started and nothing has changed in the external environment.  N-O W-O-R-K has been done.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 10:57:24 PM
The force imparted by the moving pendulum is always tangential to the path of motion ( orange arrows)
The purple line represents the path a normal pendulum would travel, the red arch shows the path the milkovic pendulum system operates in.
If we divide the period (T) into 4 parts, and analyze the force during each part,
When the pendulum begins, (1/4T) the force is mostly in the horizontal vector, having little or no effect on the leveraged mass to be lifted.
 we see that as the pendulum approaches bottom dead center (2/4T)
the force increases as the tangential vectors into alignment with the gravitational (perpendicular) force.
Then as the pendulum leaves the bottom center (3/4T), the force decreases as the tangential vector heads towards the horizontal in the other direction. And finally as it approaches the other end of its swing (4/4T) the force is almost completely in the horizontal again.

Now, during the middle two 4th's (2/4T and 3/4T),
 as the pendulum follows the red path, the vertical distance covered (blue) indicates the height or distance over which this force worked.
Force x Distance  This is the equivalent to the force x distance opposing gravity on the other end of the lever, the work done to the weight.
unless you created a perfectly symmetrical weight and lever system, these are probably different forces over different distances, but the energy value (Joules, or Newton-Meters) is equivalent.

here is a some explanation of the tangential force of the pendulum:
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/Lesson-0/Pendulum-Motion (http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/Lesson-0/Pendulum-Motion)

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/301/lectures/node140.html (http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/301/lectures/node140.html)

and a period calculator
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pend.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pend.html)

and heres my diagram:
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 11:02:14 PM
Or more simply:  Absent adding energy, at the end of each cycle the stored energy in the pendulum is no greater (actually a little smaller) than at the start of the cycle.  In Lawrence's examples the pendulum does not perform any net external work.  Some energy gets shifted into GPE of the heavier weight, but only temporarily before that energy is shifted back out of the GPE of that weight.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 13, 2015, 04:16:00 PM

I shall focus on using the traditional physics to explain the Milkovic 2SO.  Look at the attached slide again.
 
If we replace m1 with a spring, the up and down motion will still be shown ...
This apparatus is what I use to determine how much oatmeal to mix with 150ml of water to  make my oatcakes, which I thoroughly recommend for healthy bowels and cholestrol reduction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 13, 2015, 08:21:08 PM
The force imparted by the moving pendulum is always tangential to the path of motion ( orange arrows)
The purple line represents the path a normal pendulum would travel, the red arch shows the path the milkovic pendulum system operates in.
If we divide the period (T) into 4 parts, and analyze the force during each part,
When the pendulum begins, (1/4T) the force is mostly in the horizontal vector, having little or no effect on the leveraged mass to be lifted.
 we see that as the pendulum approaches bottom dead center (2/4T)
the force increases as the tangential vectors into alignment with the gravitational (perpendicular) force.
Then as the pendulum leaves the bottom center (3/4T), the force decreases as the tangential vector heads towards the horizontal in the other direction. And finally as it approaches the other end of its swing (4/4T) the force is almost completely in the horizontal again.

Now, during the middle two 4th's (2/4T and 3/4T),
 as the pendulum follows the red path, the vertical distance covered (blue) indicates the height or distance over which this force worked.
Force x Distance  This is the equivalent to the force x distance opposing gravity on the other end of the lever, the work done to the weight.
unless you created a perfectly symmetrical weight and lever system, these are probably different forces over different distances, but the energy value (Joules, or Newton-Meters) is equivalent.

here is a some explanation of the tangential force of the pendulum:
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/Lesson-0/Pendulum-Motion (http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/Lesson-0/Pendulum-Motion)

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/301/lectures/node140.html (http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/301/lectures/node140.html)

and a period calculator
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pend.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pend.html)

and heres my diagram:

Good.

Start thinking circular motion.  You will have to consider Centrifugal Force.

1.  You will look at William Skinner Device in a new light.
2.  You will compare a pendulum with an Unbalanced Wheel.  You will realize that the pendulum is effectively a subset of Unbalanced Wheel.
3.  You will realize the Unbalanced Wheel is a subset of the Unbalanced Cylinder.
4.  Before you accuse the over 50 QMOGEN inventions as hoaxes, think again.
5.  Think of the jumping up and down of the trampoline.  Is it possible that gravitational energy is lead-out by the athletes?
6.  When you jump, make your weight coming down higher (Centrifugal Force is added).  Make your weight going up less (Centrifugal Force is subtracted).  Will you keep jumping higher on perfect renounce?  Would you have lead-out or brought-in gravitational energy? 
7.  You cannot rotate but an Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder can easily do so. However, you or an athlete can jump at the precise moment effectively increasing the rebounding force.

8.  The Milkovic 2SO works on changing Centrifugal Forces...
9.  No Physics Laws are violated in a lead-out energy device.  (see Skinner and RHEAD video again.)

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 13, 2015, 11:20:02 PM
Where does the CF come from,, it comes from the velocity of the weight traveling around an orbit,, how does the weight get that velocity,, from gravity AND the pivot for the arm causing the weight to gain velocity in the path of the orbit.

When the lever is allowed to move down with the weight the increase in the orbit velocity goes down as well, the force from gravity that WAS increasing that velocity is now being used to accelerate the weight straight down,, well more down than around.

This is  the EXACT reason I suggested that you do the one way clutch or bearing tests.

You will find that the pendulum will not even make it back to the starting angle relative to the arm,, and then it has the second value of drop from the arm moving.

I have done these tests,, many years ago and many many times.

I have played a lot with the Skinner setup.

*** Do you mind sharing the results?  The Skinner setup is a clear case of using gravitational energy via Unbalanced Wheels.

I am currently playing with other setups.

I am not saying that gravity can not be used as the source of force needed to make useable work,, what I am saying is the method and interactions you are talking about I have tried exactly and I was never able to even get them to a net zero condition,, they all stopped by themselves.

The reason that you were not able to get them to a net zero position is as follows:

1.  The Milkovic 2SO can only lead-out a small amount of gravitational energy.  It relies on the swing or oscillation of pendulum.  The number of swings per unit time is governed by the length of the string.  That cannot be changed easily.

2.  Once you use the Chan Wheel, you effectively replace the Pendulum with an Unbalanced Wheel.  The rotational speed of the Unbalanced Wheel can be hundreds or thousand times that of the pendulum.

3.  The Centrifugal Force varies as the square of the angular velocity.  Once you increase the rotational speed, the Centrifugal Force will also increase.  The quantity of lead-out gravitational energy will also increase.

4.  You can easily improve the performance with the use an Unbalanced Cylinder.  That is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN.  That is the State Secret of China.

5.  If you do the experiment outside China and that you are NOT a Chinese Citizen, you do not break any laws and will not be "arrested".  You can benefit the World.

6.  When the quantity of lead-out energy is hundred or many thousand times that compared with the Milkovic case, you can easily harness the lead-out energy.  The many attempts to increase the mass and the size of the Milkovic set up are NOT the theoretical best. 

In any new field of science, experience and traditional concepts may not necessarily be an asset...

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 13, 2015, 11:51:47 PM
Good.

Start thinking circular motion.  You will have to consider Centrifugal Force.

1.  You will look at William Skinner Device in a new light.
2.  You will compare a pendulum with an Unbalanced Wheel.  You will realize that the pendulum is effectively a subset of Unbalanced Wheel.
3.  You will realize the Unbalanced Wheel is a subset of the Unbalanced Cylinder.
4.  Before you accuse the over 50 QMOGEN inventions as hoaxes, think again.
5.  Think of the jumping up and down of the trampoline.  Is it possible that gravitational energy is lead-out by the athletes?
6.  When you jump, make your weight coming down higher (Centrifugal Force is added).  Make your weight going up less (Centrifugal Force is subtracted).  Will you keep jumping higher on perfect renounce?  Would you have lead-out or brought-in gravitational energy? 
7.  You cannot rotate but an Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder can easily do so. However, you or an athlete can jump at the precise moment effectively increasing the rebounding force.

8.  The Milkovic 2SO works on changing Centrifugal Forces...
9.  No Physics Laws are violated in a lead-out energy device.  (see Skinner and RHEAD video again.)

Lawrence
see reply 2826
And there is no output energy from these worthless devices you keep promoting.  Zip, zero, nada.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 14, 2015, 12:34:18 AM

1.  The Milkovic 2SO can only lead-out a small amount of gravitational energy.



There is no lead-out energy in the Milkovic device.
 All energies have been accounted for, input energy, work done to counter-weight, and frictional, wind resistance losses.
 there is not any unaccounted-for amount of energy to attribute to this "lead-out" quantity your refer to.
Lead-Out energy is not present in this device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 14, 2015, 12:44:32 AM

There is no lead-out energy in the Milkovic device.
 All energies have been accounted for, input energy, work done to counter-weight, and frictional, wind resistance losses.
 there is not any unaccounted-for amount of energy to attribute to this "lead-out" quantity your refer to.
Lead-Out energy is not present in this device.

It does not matter whether you disagree.  The lead-out energy is there.  The super-set Chan Wheel leads-out much more.  The Super-super set Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier leads out even more.

Look at the William Skinner device.  Does it lead-out gravitational energy via Unbalanced Wheel rotation?

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 14, 2015, 12:53:11 AM
The Taiwan Maglev.

One thing to note about the Taiwan Maglev is that it uses magnetic repulsion to "float" the device.  There is little friction in the axle rotation.  The axle can actually "vibrate" up and down without causing harm to the rest of the device.

It is also a QMOGEN using lead-out Energy.  I shall check further whether the lead-out energy is purely gravitational or does it already lead-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy...

Lawrence
see reply 2826




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 14, 2015, 01:02:33 AM
Not by my testing.

I shared a lot of my results in the Skinner thread,, ones I thought were looking good and not so good but in the end with the way the device is presented there is not a gain that I could find,, I would of even settled for a large loss because if you can loose it you should be able to find it.  All things I did loose I could account for.

Your rate of rotation leading to a gain also does not work by my testing and a sim that was done to measure values that I could not.  You end up with a give and take system and that becomes a net zero condition,, you see a gain in one area but then there is an increase in input in another to make that gain.

I get the math but remember when dealing with things in orbit that there is a cost as well when that orbit is forced into a deviation,, you let it fly off in this direction and you have to grab it,, this is the part you are calling a gain,, but guess what, the weight is traveling in the wrong direction,, so now you have to pull that weight back and then you have to accelerate it back up to speed.

You may use the outside force to stop the fly-away,, and how much of that you use up also means that is the amount of acceleration YOU need to add back in,, see there is the rub,, YOU are putting back in what was taken out.

These are some of the things I have observed from actual builds,, as I suggested, you should do the test and see for yourself.

Once you build the Chan Wheel or the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier, you will see things differently.

I am not an engineer or a mechanic. I shall NOT build things myself. 

There are over 50 QMOGENs and more are coming.

I prefer to work with others who have a working device.  Taiwan Maglev is an example.  I just help them to remove the road block.  Their device is not the impossible perpetual motion machine.  It is a possible lead-out energy device.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 14, 2015, 01:38:57 AM
It does not matter whether you disagree.  The lead-out energy is there.  The super-set Chan Wheel leads-out much more.  The Super-super set Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier leads out even more.

Look at the William Skinner device.  Does it lead-out gravitational energy via Unbalanced Wheel rotation?

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Now you are just lying.  There is no output energy at all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 14, 2015, 05:02:32 PM
It does not matter whether you disagree.  The lead-out energy is there.  The super-set Chan Wheel leads-out much more.
You guys are sounding a bit like ISIL nutbags.
At least you are not beheading each other with kitchen knives.
For this, I think I can safely say, we are all truly grateful.
.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 14, 2015, 05:42:08 PM
Lawrence:

Why not post a link to your 4-legged stool experiment video to demonstrate what you are talking about?

As you know, I do not believe in your theory as there really has been no experimental evidence to suggest it is valid. (As far as I know)

Also, I remember Forever doing a pendulum experiment that you said showed the lead out principle, do you have a link to that one as well?

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 14, 2015, 08:06:39 PM
The Taiwan Maglev story.  Some information from Sterling Allan - listed device as the 9th most ready to market QMOGEN. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Maglev_Magnet_Generator_by_Taiwan_Edison_Creative_Technology_Co.%2C_Ltd

As a wind turbine company, they came up with the idea when they asked the question: "What do we do if the wind doesn't blow?" They hooked a motor to the front end and discovered this unexpected effect.

It is a clear case of a small motor driving a large generator.  They improved the performance by suspending the axle with magnetic repulsion.  They demonstrated their device to the Taiwan News Media on July 19, 2014.  They are seeking distributors worldwide.  I emailed them and got the contact information.

For more information on distributorship, please contact:

Helen Huang <decjulia@gmail.com> / Mobile: 886-932-32 4532

Taiwan Edison Creative Technology co., ltd

TEL: 04-2301-7000  EXT 317 FAX: 04-2301-1313

SKYPE: decjulias  Line: thu101helen

I shall try to get a friend in Taiwan to pay them a visit.  If necessary, I may fly there myself.  Apparently, they already have enough funding.  Some of you with distribution capability can contact them directly.

*** Obviously, I told them the lead-out energy theory and this thread, especially reply 2826.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 14, 2015, 08:22:37 PM
My goal is to help Taiwan Maglev to further improve the performance via Unbalanced Cylinders.  There will be no charge from me. They are encouraged to donate a portion of their profit to a charity of their choice.

Dealing with a Company with a working device may be much more fruitful.  The seed may have fallen on fertile soil...

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 14, 2015, 08:44:44 PM
The Taiwan Maglev story.  Some information from Sterling Allan - listed device as the 9th most ready to market QMOGEN. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Maglev_Magnet_Generator_by_Taiwan_Edison_Creative_Technology_Co.%2C_Ltd (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Maglev_Magnet_Generator_by_Taiwan_Edison_Creative_Technology_Co.%2C_Ltd)

As a wind turbine company, they came up with the idea when they asked the question: "What do we do if the wind doesn't blow?" They hooked a motor to the front end and discovered this unexpected effect.

It is a clear case of a small motor driving a large generator.  They improved the performance by suspending the axle with magnetic repulsion.  They demonstrated their device to the Taiwan News Media on July 19, 2014.  They are seeking distributors worldwide.  I emailed them and got the contact information.

For more information on distributorship, please contact:

Helen Huang <decjulia@gmail.com> / Mobile: 886-932-32 4532

Taiwan Edison Creative Technology co., ltd

TEL: 04-2301-7000  EXT 317 FAX: 04-2301-1313

SKYPE: decjulias  Line: thu101helen

I shall try to get a friend in Taiwan to pay them a visit.  If necessary, I may fly there myself.  Apparently, they already have enough funding.  Some of you with distribution capability can contact them directly.

*** Obviously, I told them the lead-out energy theory and this thread, especially reply 2826.

Lawrence:

You continue to cite Sterling in your posts.  You do know that he is probably going to jail right?  I believe this makes him not very credible.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 14, 2015, 09:01:03 PM
Once you build the Chan Wheel or the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier, you will see things differently.

I am not an engineer or a mechanic. I shall NOT build things myself. 

There are over 50 QMOGENs and more are coming.

I prefer to work with others who have a working device.  Taiwan Maglev is an example.  I just help them to remove the road block.  Their device is not the impossible perpetual motion machine.  It is a possible lead-out energy device.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Where is there any evidence that the Taiwan Maglev self-runs, much less produces a useful output in excess of the input energy?  Is this question going to be met with the same silence as the request for any official statement by Tsinghua University that they have developed an "energy multiplier"?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 14, 2015, 09:50:26 PM
It does not matter whether you disagree.  The lead-out energy is there.  The super-set Chan Wheel leads-out much more.  The Super-super set Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier leads out even more.

Look at the William Skinner device.  Does it lead-out gravitational energy via Unbalanced Wheel rotation?

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Without scientific proof by testing the actual device, there is no lead-out energy to speak of.
Gravity cannot do work. That simple. There is no such thing as gravitational energy. You can't argue against natures behaviour. The nature does not care about what opinions we might have about it.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 14, 2015, 10:23:47 PM
Without scientific proof by testing the actual device, there is no lead-out energy to speak of.
Gravity cannot do work. That simple. There is no such thing as gravitational energy. You can't argue against natures behaviour. The nature does not care about what opinions we might have about it.


Vidar

Vidar:

Lawrence will take your words and use them as proof of his lead out theory.  He continues to cite Sterling and, we all know what is going to happen to him.

I will say this, and have said it before, I do admire Lawrence's tenacity as he has never wavered on his theory in the face of scientific facts showing it does not work.  I am not sure if this is good or bad but, he at least is consistent.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 14, 2015, 11:14:33 PM
A friend is doing much of the contacting work on Taiwan Maglev.

Here is his summary slide.
(correction to his slide.  should read 43 Kilowatt-hour per day.  The average Taiwan Household uses 15 Kilowatt-hour per day.)

http://www.chinatimes.com/newspapers/20140720000273-260114

The quoted newspaper article is in Chinese.  You can use Google to translate it yourself.  If you do not want to go via Sterling Allan website, do your independent research.  You can email Helen Huang yourself.  She can reply in English.

When a device is demonstrated in Public and is now inviting distributors, the chance of a hoax is low.  You do not need to believe it now.  Wait until it is on the Market...

I am confident that the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier will give it guiding light...
Unbalanced Cylinders.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 14, 2015, 11:52:39 PM
Found that one already,, not much information really.

Then there is the other thread on that item,, again not much information.

With all that they are not using any form of "lead-out" stuff but supposed.y?? a new method for inducing current in a coil.

Thanks for trying.

The contact information has already been given.

Why would a serious researcher rely on newspaper articles only?  Contact the source... Sterling Allan did. But if you do not want to use his information, do your own.

They did not quote any lead-out energy theory yet at the July 2014 announcement.  They did not get my email then.  I am sure that they will add an Unbalanced Cylinder now in their experiments.  The Chinese mentality is to become the best.  Copy and improve.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 15, 2015, 12:05:16 AM
The contact information has already been given.

Why would a serious researcher rely on newspaper articles only?  Contact the source... Sterling Allan did. But if you do not want to use his information, do your own.

They did not quote any lead-out energy theory yet at the July 2014 announcement.  They did not get my email then.  I am sure that they will add an Unbalanced Cylinder now in their experiments.  The Chinese mentality is to become the best.  Copy and improve.

Lawrence
see reply 2826

Lawrence:

Again, you cite Sterling.  Really, do you not know of the legal trouble he is in?  He posted about this himself.  I believe that he is going to do jail time.  If I were you, I would not cite him as a reference.  I do not dislike him, but what he said that he has done over the years is appalling to me.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 12:33:23 AM
A friend is doing much of the contacting work on Taiwan Maglev.

Here is his summary slide.
(correction to his slide.  should read 43 Kilowatt-hour per day.  The average Taiwan Household uses 15 Kilowatt-hour per day.)

http://www.chinatimes.com/newspapers/20140720000273-260114

The quoted newspaper article is in Chinese.  You can use Google to translate it yourself.  If you do not want to go via Sterling Allan website, do your independent research.  You can email Helen Huang yourself.  She can reply in English.

When a device is demonstrated in Public and is now inviting distributors, the chance of a hoax is low.  You do not need to believe it now.  Wait until it is on the Market...

I am confident that the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier will give it guiding light...
Unbalanced Cylinders.
Buy one, use it to run your home and tell everyone how it works out.  Isn't it odd that searches for "Energy Multiplier" and Tsinghua University only turn up digital multiplication circuits for microchips?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 15, 2015, 12:53:17 AM
Buy one, use it to run your home and tell everyone how it works out.  Isn't it odd that searches for "Energy Multiplier" and Tsinghua University only turn up digital multiplication circuits for microchips?

you cant BUY an overunity device, silly !!!  They're illegal,.. against the laws of thermodynamics !!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 01:16:06 AM
you cant BUY an overunity device, silly !!!  They're illegal,.. against the laws of thermodynamics !!
If you go to the back alley on an unbalanced Segway they'll sell one to you.  Tell 'em Lawrence sent you.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 15, 2015, 01:17:33 AM
Lawrence:

Again, you cite Sterling.  Really, do you not know of the legal trouble he is in?  He posted about this himself.  I believe that he is going to do jail time.  If I were you, I would not cite him as a reference.  I do not dislike him, but what he said that he has done over the years is appalling to me.

Bill

That is the stupid system in USA.  Murder the inventors.  Put them in jail.  Put the advocates in jail as well.  The Chinese way is better.  Make them millionaires - example Wang Shen He.  I believe the diamond secret is kept that way.

I was lucky not to have been run down by a car in Irvine, USA. 

The lead-out energy theory is correct from day 1.  (The earth is round.) 
The debunkers who cannot follow Physics can say what they want.  Who cares?  Please check your Physics again...  You are too intelligent to be a stupid debunker.

Just sow seeds.  Some may fall on fertile soil.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 15, 2015, 01:21:18 AM
That is the stupid system in USA.  Murder the inventors.  Put them in jail.  Put the advocates in jail as well.  The Chinese way is better.  Make them millionaires - example Wang Shen He.  I believe the diamond secret is kept that way.

I was lucky not to have been run down by a car in Irvine, USA. 

The lead-out energy theory is correct from day 1.  (The earth is round.) 
The debunkers who cannot follow Physics can say what they want.  Who cares?  Please check your Physics again...  You are too intelligent to be a stupid debunker.

Just sow seeds.  Some may fall on fertile soil.

Lawrence
see reply 2826

Sterling is NOT an inventor.  I am not going to post here what he says he has done.  You can look it up.  Sterling going to jail is NOT free energy suppression.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 01:29:04 AM
That is the stupid system in USA.  Murder the inventors.  Put them in jail.  Put the advocates in jail as well.  The Chinese way is better.  Make them millionaires - example Wang Shen He.  I believe the diamond secret is kept that way.

I was lucky not to have been run down by a car in Irvine, USA. 

The lead-out energy theory is correct from day 1.  (The earth is round.) 
The debunkers who cannot follow Physics can say what they want.  Who cares?  Please check your Physics again...  You are too intelligent to be a stupid debunker.

Just sow seeds.  Some may fall on fertile soil.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Although cow manure may be used as fertilizer, it does not make all cow manure valuable.  You have failed to ever present any credible evidence that your "lead-out" claims are correct.  On the contrary:  Every machine that you have claimed as employing this "lead-out" principle has failed to show any surplus output.  Most don't have any output at all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 15, 2015, 02:34:47 AM
"The lead-out energy theory is correct from day 1.  (The earth is round.)" it's not really round, more 'roundish'.
"The debunkers who cannot follow Physics can say what they want." So can you; you're still wrong.
"Please check your Physics again...  You are too intelligent to be a stupid debunker." Correct; I checked my physics and found that I am a SMART debunker.
Lawrence, stop talking. Demonstrate that you are right (you won't be able to).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 15, 2015, 08:37:10 AM
Spent some time talking to a retired Physics Teacher.

Teacher: "You have done a good job.  You make lead-out energy very easily to understand."

Tseung: "But some people on the Internet still cannot understand it."

Teacher: "You can be the best teacher.  Some students will get grade A.  Some students will fail and get grade E.  That is a fact of life."

Sow seeds.  Some may fall on fertile soil...

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 09:04:15 AM
Spent some time talking to a retired Physics Teacher.

Teacher: "You have done a good job.  You make lead-out energy very easily to understand."

Tseung: "But some people on the Internet still cannot understand it."

Teacher: "You can be the best teacher.  Some students will get grade A.  Some students will fail and get grade E.  That is a fact of life."

Sow seeds.  Some may fall on fertile soil...

Lawrence
see reply 2826
I'd like to know the name of any physics professor who has looked at a schematic of one of your "lead-out" machines and will go on record stating that they believe your claim that there is more output energy than input energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 15, 2015, 09:46:17 AM
Attached is the pdf file to be translated into Chinese.

This presentation will be used next week to a group of Physicists and Engineers.

It is for the "Bright Students" only. 

Sow Seeds...

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 11:04:15 AM
The presentation claims that:

"1. The lead-out energy process occurs during the lifting of m1."

m1 ends up back at its starting height by the end of each cycle.  Ergo, m1 does not gain net GPE each cycle, nor does m1 gain KE each cycle.  Ergo the "lead-out energy process" fails to deliver net energy cycle by cycle to its lifting load of m1.  Ergo there is no energy obtained from the "lead-out energy process".
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 15, 2015, 01:16:01 PM
For the bright student, the teacher only needs to say once.  For the lowest grade students, I shall say one more (last) time.

1.  Mass m1 is lifted only when the Centrifugal Force Fc + m2*g is higher than m1*g.

2.  During the lifting, the amplitude of swing does not decrease.

3.  The energy required does not come from the pendulum.  The. only other source is gravity.

4.  When m1 is raised to a high h, the potential energy gained is m1*g*h.  This lead-out energy is available to do work.

5.  The pendulum bob swings higher.  The velocity gets lower  The Centrifugal Force decreases.  The Force m1*g is again greater than m2*g + Fc.  The mass m1 falls back to ground.  The original position or state is repeated.

6.  The energy to return the pendulum system to the original position is m2*g*h.  This energy comes from the lead-out energy mentioned in 4.

7.  The difference (m1-m2)*g*h is used to produce the loud bang noise in the original Milkovic.  In the later Milkovic, that energy is used to pump water. 

8.  That amount of energy (m1-m2)*g*h is relatively small because the period of the pendulum is fixed.

9.  The obvious improvement is to replace the pendulum by an Unbalanced Wheel.  The amount of gravitational energy can be increased hundred or thousand times because of the much higher rotational speed.

10.  The QMOGENs get it right.  The Motor is used to increase the rotational speed.  The Centrifugal Force varies as the square of the angular velocity.  Thus increasing the rotational speed leads out much more gravitational energy.

11.  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is effectively many Unbalanced Wheels joined together to form Unbalanced Cylinders.  Thus it can lead-out much more gravitational energy.

This is the last time I answer this lead-out energy question.  If the student does not understand, too bad.  Let them ask help from the bright ones.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 15, 2015, 02:09:11 PM

2.  During the lifting, the amplitude of swing does not decrease.

Lawrence
see reply 2826

This is FALSE

We have proven that the pendulum does in fact decrease, in exact accordance with the energy consumed during the lifting of the weight.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 15, 2015, 02:48:11 PM
The ultimate proof is in the demonstration of a self-looped device; when will you DEMONSTRATE that, Lawrence?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 09:54:20 PM
For the bright student, the teacher only needs to say once.  For the lowest grade students, I shall say one more (last) time.

1.  Mass m1 is lifted only when the Centrifugal Force Fc + m2*g is higher than m1*g.
And m1 falls right back to its starting position, at which point there is no energy output at all despite lots of energy input by the operator.  No energy out of any kind means that there is no "lead-out energy".
Quote

2.  During the lifting, the amplitude of swing does not decrease.
This is in effect a glorified lever.  The lever only rises as the operator inputs the energy to move it.  This is the same with the pendulum:  It only swings as far as it does based on the energy input from the operator.  When enough energy is input to swing far enough to start lifting m1, then m1 starts to lift that energy redistribution takes directly from the swing of m2.  As long as the operator keeps inputting enough energy to overcome the losses, the system eventually reaches a new equilibrium state where the amplitudes of the swings become stable.
Quote

3.  The energy required does not come from the pendulum.  The. only other source is gravity.
The energy all comes from the operator.  Gravity contributes nothing but a consistent attractive force between the masses involved, the big one being the earth.
Quote

4.  When m1 is raised to a high h, the potential energy gained is m1*g*h.  This lead-out energy is available to do work.
Such work is surrendered right back into the pendulum when m1 returns to its starting position as it always does without the machine having transferred any energy to the outside world.  The machine as drawn and demonstrated is 0% efficient because it performs no external work.
Quote

5.  The pendulum bob swings higher.  The velocity gets lower  The Centrifugal Force decreases.  The Force m1*g is again greater than m2*g + Fc.  The mass m1 falls back to ground.  The original position or state is repeated.
The machine moves cyclically through different internal energy distributions like any other pendulum.  It performs no external work.  It obtains no "lead-out" energy from gravity, just like no other pendulum obtains any "lead-out" energy from gravity.
Quote

6.  The energy to return the pendulum system to the original position is m2*g*h.  This energy comes from the lead-out energy mentioned in 4.
Every bit of the energy stored in the pendulum at any point in the pendulum's cycle comes from the external operator.
Quote

7.  The difference (m1-m2)*g*h is used to produce the loud bang noise in the original Milkovic.  In the later Milkovic, that energy is used to pump water. 
Any energy transferred to the outside world: sound energy from banging, or pumping water, takes away from the internal energy of the pendulum and must be replenished by the operator, or the pendulum quickly comes to rest.
Quote

8.  That amount of energy (m1-m2)*g*h is relatively small because the period of the pendulum is fixed.
One can build big flywheels, or pendula that are capable of storing lots of energy.  A big bucket of water does not "lead-out" gravitational energy.  A big flywheel does not "lead-out" gravitational energy.  A big pendulum does not "lead-out" gravitational energy.  And neither does this device.
Quote

9.  The obvious improvement is to replace the pendulum by an Unbalanced Wheel.  The amount of gravitational energy can be increased hundred or thousand times because of the much higher rotational speed.
N*0=0.  A bigger pendulum made from an unbalanced wheel would simply store more energy.  All of that energy is supplied by the operator.
Quote

10.  The QMOGENs get it right.  The Motor is used to increase the rotational speed.  The Centrifugal Force varies as the square of the angular velocity.  Thus increasing the rotational speed leads out much more gravitational energy.
No QMOGEN has ever been shown to self-power, or to obtain energy from any previously unrecognized source such as your gravity "lead-out" claims.
Quote

11.  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is effectively many Unbalanced Wheels joined together to form Unbalanced Cylinders.  Thus it can lead-out much more gravitational energy.
Where may one find any statement from Tsinghua University that any such "Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier" ever existed and if it existed: ever worked?
Quote

This is the last time I answer this lead-out energy question.  If the student does not understand, too bad.  Let them ask help from the bright ones.
Since your claims have been shown to be false many times, one can only hope that you will abandon them and return to reality.
Quote

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 15, 2015, 10:21:07 PM


Where may one find any statement from Tsinghua University that any such "Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier" ever existed and if it existed: ever worked?

You can't.  All of the people involved with this project were killed and the device was destroyed.  Yet another tragic example of energy suppression.  Lawrence thinks that Sterling is going to jail for the same reasons.  He exposed too much.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 15, 2015, 11:08:18 PM
You can't.  All of the people involved with this project were killed and the device was destroyed.  Yet another tragic example of energy suppression.  Lawrence thinks that Sterling is going to jail for the same reasons.  He exposed too much.

Bill

You are using the USA mentality.
  In China, all involved either got rich or were well taken care of in Military Establishments.  USA has area 52.  China has many 52s...

I do not think Sterling will go to jail.  He is essentially a reporter with no deep knowledge of any working device.  The USA Government may be under pressure to silence him and close down his website.  But the information is already out.  China, Russia, Japan etc. already have copies.  Jailing him just confirms that he has reported something of value.

The pendulum has led to the Unbalanced Wheel and the Unbalanced Cylinder. A device similar to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier will come out.  My bet is on India.  China can no longer keep the State Secret.  The strategy will have to change.

One more State Secret.  Both China and USA have working flying saucers based on lead-out magnetic and electromagnetic energy and pulsed Centrifugal Force.  The John Searl device is no hoax.

Let the bright students work it out. 

Sow seeds...

Lawrence
see reply 2826.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 11:45:18 PM
You can't.  All of the people involved with this project were killed and the device was destroyed.  Yet another tragic example of energy suppression.  Lawrence thinks that Sterling is going to jail for the same reasons.  He exposed too much.

Bill
Sterling may be going to jail because he may have "exposed too much" of himself to an underage girl.  Thankfully, Sterling has not been specific on the graphic details of his admitted pedophilic acts that he euphemizes as a "lust addiction".
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 11:51:00 PM

You are using the USA mentality.
  In China, all involved either got rich or were well taken care of in Military Establishments.  USA has area 52.  China has many 52s...
LOL, yeah sure Lawrence, just like you claim that the Witts QEG works and that you and your pals have plenty of resources to buy one, but you don't.  Amazingly, you report on all these suppressions, but none of these governments suppress you.  Now why is it that if they want to suppress something they don't?
Quote

I do not think Sterling will go to jail.  He is essentially a reporter with no deep knowledge of any working device.  The USA Government may be under pressure to silence him and close down his website.  But the information is already out.  China, Russia, Japan etc. already have copies.  Jailing him just confirms that he has reported something of value.

The pendulum has led to the Unbalanced Wheel and the Unbalanced Cylinder. A device similar to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier will come out.  My bet is on India.  China can no longer keep the State Secret.  The strategy will have to change.
None of which ahve been shown to evolve any surplus energy.
Quote

One more State Secret.  Both China and USA have working flying saucers based on lead-out magnetic and electromagnetic energy and pulsed Centrifugal Force.  The John Searl device is no hoax.
LOL, yeah that's why the old fraud John Searl can't make one of his SEGs work despite all the help he has received.  Do you have any new whopper lies to tell today Lawrence?
Quote

Let the bright students work it out. 

Sow seeds...

Lawrence
see reply 2826.
You're in the spreading cow manure phase.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 16, 2015, 12:46:24 AM

You are using the USA mentality.
  In China, all involved either got rich or were well taken care of in Military Establishments.  USA has area 52.  China has many 52s...

I do not think Sterling will go to jail.  He is essentially a reporter with no deep knowledge of any working device.  The USA Government may be under pressure to silence him and close down his website.  But the information is already out.  China, Russia, Japan etc. already have copies.  Jailing him just confirms that he has reported something of value.

The pendulum has led to the Unbalanced Wheel and the Unbalanced Cylinder. A device similar to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier will come out.  My bet is on India.  China can no longer keep the State Secret.  The strategy will have to change.

One more State Secret.  Both China and USA have working flying saucers based on lead-out magnetic and electromagnetic energy and pulsed Centrifugal Force.  The John Searl device is no hoax.

Let the bright students work it out. 

Sow seeds...

Lawrence
see reply 2826.

Lawrence:

Sterling may be going to jail for his admitted interaction with underage girls.  I only know what he has posted about this and nothing else.  You would have to ask him for any details.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 17, 2015, 12:45:20 PM
The presentation in Chinese.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 17, 2015, 01:10:29 PM
The presentation in Chinese.
It's the same BS:  Misrepresenting machines that do not produce useful output as producing more useful output energy than input energy consumed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 17, 2015, 01:15:58 PM
@Lawrence

Very Simple Experiment::

Take a Mechanical Water Pump, and attach it to an unbalanced wheel.

Data:
1) Measure the amount of water, over time, pumped to Height (x).    E = mg(x)
2) Measure the energy, over time, used to turn the wheel.

Conclusion: Compare Energy (1), to Energy (2).

Perform this experiment as many times as necessary to achieve the results you desire, and present the details of your experiment and the data. In a manner in which it can be replicated.

There is NO need to confuse this issue with theories of "lead-out" energy, or any hypothesis what so ever.
Just raw data.

Then, and Only then, can further discussion be validated.
  --- I propose that up to now, all replicatable experimental results are in direct contradiction to your "lead-out energy" theory.

If you wish to change anyone's mind about this, perform the experiment and present it in its simplest form.
Your theories on this matter are quite frankly irrelevant to any empirical experimental data.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 17, 2015, 01:51:47 PM
For the bright student, the teacher only needs to say once.  For the lowest grade students, I shall say one more (last) time.
That's hilarious Lawrence because you obstinately reject the fact that your machines produce no useful output.
Quote
[/b]
1.  Mass m1 is lifted only when the Centrifugal Force Fc + m2*g is higher than m1*g.
And then you summarily ignore the fact that m1 gets dropped in the same cycle, resulting in zero net work being performed on m1.
Quote

2.  During the lifting, the amplitude of swing does not decrease.
This is false as has been pointed out to you many times.
Quote

3.  The energy required does not come from the pendulum.  The. only other source is gravity.
The energy transferred temporarily to increased GPE in m1 during part of the cycle absolutely comes from the pendulum, which obtained all its energy from the operator.
Quote

4.  When m1 is raised to a high h, the potential energy gained is m1*g*h.  This lead-out energy is available to do work.
A. There is no "lead-out" energy.  B. Any energy expended must be replenished by the operator.  The coins in your pocket are not "lead-out" money.  And if you spend them on anything, then they will be gone and you cannot spend them any additional times.
Quote

5.  The pendulum bob swings higher.  The velocity gets lower  The Centrifugal Force decreases.  The Force m1*g is again greater than m2*g + Fc.  The mass m1 falls back to ground.  The original position or state is repeated.
Meaning that the energy that was temporarily transferred to increased GPE in m1 has now been transferred back to another part of the machine, and no net work was performed on m1.  No net work was available cycle to cycle to do work, despite your false statement 4.
Quote

6.  The energy to return the pendulum system to the original position is m2*g*h.  This energy comes from the lead-out energy mentioned in 4.
You are wrong again.  There is no "lead-out energy".  Energy supplied by the external operator redistributes, and both m1 and m2 simply cycle between different potential and kinetic energy states over the course of each cycle.
Quote

7.  The difference (m1-m2)*g*h is used to produce the loud bang noise in the original Milkovic.  In the later Milkovic, that energy is used to pump water. 
All energy output be it in the form of sound or mechanical work applied to an external load is lost each cycle and the external operator must replenish it in order ot keep the machine going.
Quote

8.  That amount of energy (m1-m2)*g*h is relatively small because the period of the pendulum is fixed.
That statement is completely non-sensical.
Quote

9.  The obvious improvement is to replace the pendulum by an Unbalanced Wheel.  The amount of gravitational energy can be increased hundred or thousand times because of the much higher rotational speed.
An unbalanced wheel is just another form of pendulum.  Changing one for the other takes a machine that produces no useful output and converts it into a machine that produces no useful output with a different resonant frequency.
Quote

10.  The QMOGENs get it right.  The Motor is used to increase the rotational speed.  The Centrifugal Force varies as the square of the angular velocity.  Thus increasing the rotational speed leads out much more gravitational energy.
No QMOGEN has ever been shown to work.  No QMOGEN has ever been shown to "lead-out" energy of any kind.  Some have been shown to lead-out money from gullible investors' wallets.
Quote

11.  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is effectively many Unbalanced Wheels joined together to form Unbalanced Cylinders.  Thus it can lead-out much more gravitational energy.
Where may one find any official statement from Tsinghua University that they ever developed this "Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier" that you claim?  Where is there any test data showing the performance of such a device and whetehr or not it generates an output energy in surplus of the input energy?
Quote

This is the last time I answer this lead-out energy question.  If the student does not understand, too bad.  Let them ask help from the bright ones.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Promises, promises Lawrence.  You keep promising that "this time" will be the last time that you tell your fairy tales.  It hasn't generally taken very long for you to change your mind and tell them again.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 18, 2015, 07:58:13 PM
@Lawrence

Very Simple Experiment::

Take a Mechanical Water Pump, and attach it to an unbalanced wheel.

Data:
1) Measure the amount of water, over time, pumped to Height (x).    E = mg(x)
2) Measure the energy, over time, used to turn the wheel.

Conclusion: Compare Energy (1), to Energy (2).

Perform this experiment as many times as necessary to achieve the results you desire, and present the details of your experiment and the data. In a manner in which it can be replicated.

There is NO need to confuse this issue with theories of "lead-out" energy, or any hypothesis what so ever.
Just raw data.

Then, and Only then, can further discussion be validated.
  --- I propose that up to now, all replicatable experimental results are in direct contradiction to your "lead-out energy" theory.

If you wish to change anyone's mind about this, perform the experiment and present it in its simplest form.
Your theories on this matter are quite frankly irrelevant to any empirical experimental data.

Thank you for a good suggestion.  Keep the constructive comments coming.

I am too old and too weak to do experiments myself.  Let others shine.

The diagram shown on reply 2813 on March 3, 2015 has been seen over 200 times.  I personally discussed it with at least 10 individuals.  Some expressed an interest in actually doing such a QMOGEN.

I am more interested in the outcome of such a QMOGEN in Hong Kong and China where I can have direct access.  Others are welcome to do it in their native countries.

Divine Wine is for all to share.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 19, 2015, 03:35:06 AM
Lawrence, I am sorry that you are old and feeble.   But making your legacy one of promoting nonsense and lies does not seem a good way to go.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 19, 2015, 03:40:47 AM
Lawrence, given that you claim to have access to large amount of money ($100k for a Witts contraption) why not use a part of that $100k to have a someone validate your claims by building prototypes; I guess we both know the answer to that...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 19, 2015, 11:11:46 AM
One step closer to the simplified Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Experiment.

QMOGEN suggested parts list: The suggestions are for reference only.  It is possible to use other brands including those made in China.

1.   Electric Motor, 12V dc
e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buehler-12V-500-RPM-Heavy-Duty-Gearhead-DC-Hobby-Motor-High-Torque-Output-/271651526808?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f3fb15898
HKD 233 + HKD 99 shipping

2.   Generator DC
e.g.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAMAGAWA-SEIKI-DC-GENERATOR-TS6080N-1-E-3-/291296489707?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d29fb0eb
HKD 659 + HKD 166 shipping.
 
3.   12 V battery (2)
e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-12V7AH-SEALED-LEAD-ACID-RECHARGEABLE-BATTERY-FOR-APC-IBM-Belkin-UPS-Backup-/111209193428?pt=LH_D efaultDomain_0&hash=item19e4959fd4
HKD 123 for 2 batteries

4.   12V battery charger
e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-6-12V-Auto-Battery-Load-Charger-Alernator-Regulator-Tester-Automotive-Tools-/201310462192?hash=item2edf09e0f0&item=201310462192&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
HKD 194

5.   Belt and pulley  (approximately 2 to 6 inches in diameter)
In sets of two each (2 inches, 4 inches, 6 inches.)
Need to check with machine shops.  Estimated price HKD 300 maximum.

6.   Unbalanced Wheel from used bicycle wheels and lead fishing weights.
Can get used front bicycle wheels from Tai Po bicycles shops with price from HKD 40 to HKD 80 each.  Lead Fishing Weights at HKD 40 each.

7.    Frame, nuts and bolts to hold the various parts.
Can get from almost any large hardware store.  Estimated price HKD .500 maximum.  Need to work out the size and shape before cutting.

Total is HKD 2,434.  Let us round it up to HKD 3,000 (USD385 approximately).  Such a material cost is acceptable to most organizations as a experiment.  It is a meaningful economic activity.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 19, 2015, 11:28:49 AM
If you believe this nonsense Lawrence then go buy that stuff and pay some student to put it together and test it.  Start by hooking the motor directly to the generator and measuring the net efficiency.  Then hook it up in your unbalanced configuration and watch the efficiency go down.  Of the three configurations:  a) Straight wires, b) Motor driving generator balanced, and c) Motor driving generator unbalanced, a) will always exhibit the best efficiency.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 19, 2015, 07:13:18 PM
Shall do an alibaba.com search.  Many manufacturers are in China.

Best is to develop a relationship with them.  They can easily do a QMOGEN within their test facilities.  Adding an Unbalanced flywheel should be easy for them.  Let them shine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 19, 2015, 11:29:25 PM
Dear Electric Motor Manufacturer,

I am interested in working with you on a new technology known as QMOGEN.  QMOGEN stands for Motor and Generator Pair with self-looped energy.  The Motor first gets energy from mains and drives an unbalanced Wheel/Cylinder.  This is connected via belt and pulley to drive the Generator.  After full speed, the Generator will supply energy to the Motor.  The original Energy Source will not be needed.  The energy comes from the Lead-out energy – gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic.

Details are in http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442672/#msg442672

The best QMOGEN is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.

Please contact me if you are interested.

Lawrence Tseung
(see reply 2953, 2826)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 20, 2015, 12:05:30 AM
I have a device that can lead out gravitational energy.
it's called An Anti-Hover Craft

You supply the initial power to lift it to the upper atmosphere,
after that it draws its energy from the lead-out gravitational effect and will self-power all the way to the earth
and increase in energy as it travels.
when it reaches the ground it will be traveling at terminal velocity and impact with tremendous force.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 20, 2015, 12:44:35 AM
I have a device that can lead out gravitational energy.
it's called An Anti-Hover Craft

You supply the initial power to lift it to the upper atmosphere,
after that it draws its energy from the lead-out gravitational effect and will self-power all the way to the earth
and increase in energy as it travels.
when it reaches the ground it will be traveling at terminal velocity and impact with tremendous force.
Has the Revolutionary Outer atmosphere Crashing Kit been featured on PESN yet?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: deslomeslager on March 20, 2015, 01:19:04 AM
Dear Lawrence,

I happen to have a one wheel bike. I turned the right side crank 180 degrees, so both point in the same direction. Then I removed the pedals and attached a small iron weight to it. So I now have a one wheel bike (it also has a saddle of course) from which I can turn the wheel by hand. Or by rocking the bike forwards and backwards. I can get it to spin very fast that way. As soon as I stop rocking (speeding) the bike is difficult to hold with my hands, and depending on how I hold it, it may start thumping with the saddle on the ground. It looks like I am adding energy to the spinning wheel by rocking it forth and back, and I can let some of the energy get back out in another direction. I think the rotational speed will get less if energy is used to lift up the bike, thumping on the floor.

It is possibly half of an example. I assume I will need to attach the bike to something else, to use some of the energy (and to perhaps rotate the wheel by motor so we can control the speed).

I am not an engineer, and use all kind of spare parts I have or can find. I have some more bike wheels, even one with a dynamo in the hub, but I am bad in connecting all of this together. Most of the time my constructions will be to weak to support all that rocking energy. I am better of with electronics.

Please recommend how to proceed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 20, 2015, 03:45:22 AM
Dear Electric Motor Manufacturer,

I am interested in working with you on a new technology known as QMOGEN.  QMOGEN stands for Motor and Generator Pair with self-looped energy.  The Motor first gets energy from mains and drives an unbalanced Wheel/Cylinder.  This is connected via belt and pulley to drive the Generator.  After full speed, the Generator will supply energy to the Motor.  The original Energy Source will not be needed.  The energy comes from the Lead-out energy – gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic.

Details are in http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442672/#msg442672 (http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442672/#msg442672)

The best QMOGEN is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.

Please contact me if you are interested.

Lawrence Tseung
(see reply 2953, 2826)

REPLY:

Dear Lawrence:

Thank you for your inquiry.  We have been making electric motors for over 50 years and have spent millions of dollars perfecting an efficient, balanced and dependable motor.  If we were to do as you suggest, our motors would not only be less efficient, but their life span would be greatly decreased.  Low friction and balancing are the keys to getting the highest efficiency from an electric motor design.  If we were to make our motors unbalanced, this would represent a giant step backward for us.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Electric Motor Manufacturer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 20, 2015, 04:12:11 AM
Thank you for your inquiry, Mr. Tsueng.
 We have been making electric motors for over 50 years and have spent millions of dollars perfecting an efficient, balanced and dependable motor.  If we were to do as you suggest, our motors would not only be less efficient, but their life span would be greatly decreased.  Low friction and balancing are the keys to getting the highest efficiency from an electric motor design.  If we were to make our motors unbalanced, this would represent a giant step backward for us. Frankly, we think that maybe such an suggestion comes from an unbalanced mind. Somewhat ironic, don't you think?

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Successful Electric Motor Manufacturer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 20, 2015, 01:11:00 PM
Dear Lawrence,

I happen to have a one wheel bike. I turned the right side crank 180 degrees, so both point in the same direction. Then I removed the pedals and attached a small iron weight to it. So I now have a one wheel bike (it also has a saddle of course) from which I can turn the wheel by hand. Or by rocking the bike forwards and backwards. I can get it to spin very fast that way. As soon as I stop rocking (speeding) the bike is difficult to hold with my hands, and depending on how I hold it, it may start thumping with the saddle on the ground. It looks like I am adding energy to the spinning wheel by rocking it forth and back, and I can let some of the energy get back out in another direction. I think the rotational speed will get less if energy is used to lift up the bike, thumping on the floor.

It is possibly half of an example. I assume I will need to attach the bike to something else, to use some of the energy (and to perhaps rotate the wheel by motor so we can control the speed).

I am not an engineer, and use all kind of spare parts I have or can find. I have some more bike wheels, even one with a dynamo in the hub, but I am bad in connecting all of this together. Most of the time my constructions will be to weak to support all that rocking energy. I am better of with electronics.

Please recommend how to proceed.

My recommendation is to read reply 2957 again. If you are not good with construction, just wait.  One or more QMOGENs is likely to come as a product from China or India.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 20, 2015, 03:22:30 PM
....and have spent millions of dollars perfecting an efficient, balanced and dependable motor.  If we were to do as you suggest, our motors would not only be less efficient, but their life span would be greatly decreased....
This is for regular motor usage, vacuum cleaners, egg whisks and so on.

The whole point of this part of Lawrence's work is that the system MUST have an unbalanced element in it. Not necessarily the motor itself, but another element in the chain.

Whether Lawrence's work functions is quite another matter.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 20, 2015, 03:29:52 PM
This is for regular motor usage, vacuum cleaners, egg whisks and so on.

The whole point of this part of Lawrence's work is that the system MUST have an unbalanced element in it. Not necessarily the motor itself, but another element in the chain.

Whether Lawrence's work functions is quite another matter.
Despite his protestations, Lawrence has never shown a surplus of output energy over input from any of his schemes.  He routinely promotes claims of overunity for devices that have no useful output at all, claiming that they have a capacity to do work, all the while neglecting that any work that they would perform would result in associated extra demand on the input.  Additionally, Lawrence has never shown any reason to believe that unbalancing a wheel will do anything to improve efficiency, extract energy from the environment somehow, or otherwise offer some hope of advantage over a balanced wheel.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 20, 2015, 03:31:34 PM
My recommendation is to read reply 2957 again. If you are not good with construction, just wait.  One or more QMOGENs is likely to come as a product from China or India.
The likelihood is more than  10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000:1 that no working QMOGEN will ever come from anywhere.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 20, 2015, 06:33:02 PM
Improvement on the parts list in reply 2960

a.  Use an unbalanced flywheel as shown.  Start with a 15 cm diameter 5Kg Flywheel.  Unbalanced weight of 0.5 Kg adjustable distance from center from 8 cm to 15 cm.  Need to contact a machine shop.  This part must be very secure.  May enclose the whole set up in a "cage" for safety reasons.

b.  Use motor and generator from the same manufacturer.  Wait and see which manufacturer responses.

The top QMOGEN from Sterling Allan is the Russian MES50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Es9JUwU7HQ

I still prefer the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  The Unbalanced Cylinders can improve almost any QMOGEN.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 20, 2015, 09:11:32 PM
An endorsement by Sterling Allen is the kiss of death for anything.
"The Unbalanced Cylinders can improve almost any QMOGEN." Well yes; how can you NOT improve on a non-existent device?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 20, 2015, 09:23:27 PM
Improvement on the parts list in reply 2960

a.  Use an unbalanced flywheel as shown.  Start with a 15 cm diameter 5Kg Flywheel.  Unbalanced weight of 0.5 Kg adjustable distance from center from 8 cm to 15 cm.  Need to contact a machine shop.  This part must be very secure.  May enclose the whole set up in a "cage" for safety reasons.

b.  Use motor and generator from the same manufacturer.  Wait and see which manufacturer responses.

The top QMOGEN from Sterling Allan is the Russian MES50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Es9JUwU7HQ

I still prefer the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  The Unbalanced Cylinders can improve almost any QMOGEN.
The only problem being that no QMOGEN has ever been shown to generate output energy in excess of the input energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 20, 2015, 11:23:18 PM
Improvement on the parts list in reply 2960

a.  Use an unbalanced flywheel as shown.  Start with a 15 cm diameter 5Kg Flywheel.  Unbalanced weight of 0.5 Kg adjustable distance from center from 8 cm to 15 cm.  Need to contact a machine shop.  This part must be very secure.  May enclose the whole set up in a "cage" for safety reasons.

b.  Use motor and generator from the same manufacturer.  Wait and see which manufacturer responses.

The top QMOGEN from Sterling Allan is the Russian MES50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Es9JUwU7HQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Es9JUwU7HQ)

I still prefer the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  The Unbalanced Cylinders can improve almost any QMOGEN.
1. I think you can stop now. I think this university is housing students who cannot differ reality from fiction. They are wrong.
That said, I'm not payed by the oil industry to tell you this. Overunity is simply not going to happen.


2. Take 10 marbles and place it as a weight to an unbalanced wheel. If what you say is true, we would much likely increase the number of marbles for each cycle without adding marbles into the wheel. This BS is what you tell us is true, or you believe it yourself. Really, I think you can look for alternatives like windpower, spend less money, and infinitely more enegy than from a QWERTY device.


3. I do not think you will read this reply at all, or just ignore it, and continue with your ASDFGQO device. The closest we have come to overunity is the discussions going on right here - it never stops, and is escalating :-)


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on March 21, 2015, 12:07:06 AM
Really, I think you can look for alternatives like windpower, spend less money, and infinitely more enegy than from a QWERTY device.

More energy than from a keyboard? :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 21, 2015, 12:34:50 AM
The Companies that will greatly benefit from QMOGEN may be the Electric Car Companies.

Some of these have been contacted including Tesla Motors, Hong Kong.

Would be interesting to see their responses.

Initially, the QMOGENs will be used to recharge the batteries.  Sooner or later, some one will disclosed the secrets of the 225HP motor or the 180HP Laing Car...  The technology will not only be applied in tanks or submarines.

One non-profit organization in Hong Kong has committed to "showcase" a QMOGEN.  They may invest a few thousand dollars to do the simplified Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier replication.

The World can experience the Hong Kong Miracle.  Science prospered in Europe in the Middle Ages.  Now is it the turn of Asia???

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 21, 2015, 09:19:07 AM
Used the diagram in reply 2957 as the start of a bidding for the many Machine shops in Hong Kong and China.  The motor and generators can be DC.  The Unbalanced Wheel or Cylinder can be an unbalanced flywheel.

The condition is that they can use the basic design to do their own product.  If they make money, they should donate 10% profit to a charity of their choice.  Even if I do not choose them as the partner, they can do it on their own.

I have done the first presentation to a local machine shop.  I shall encourage my supporters to do the same.  After the initial reactions, I shall go via email and contact the machine shops in Hong Kong and Shenzhen.  Then extend the process to the rest of China and Worldwide.

In this way, I only need to have enough money for one "build" and there will be dozens or hundreds of builds in Hong Kong, China and the World. (Even if I do not have the money, the Builds will take place.)

Divine Wine is to be shared.

Reaction from the machine shop:
"This sounds like a great project.  I cannot lose.  It does not matter about the final outcome.  If the prototype works, I can use it as my product and make much more money.  If it does not work, my time and services are paid.  I shall read the information carefully and submit a quote in the next few days.  Can you spell out publicly that I can use the information even if I do not win the bid?"

This post serves as the Public Statement.

Lawrence
see rely 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 21, 2015, 05:14:39 PM
Used the diagram in reply 2957...
Really, you ought to provide a clickable link. Here it is:

http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442776/#msg442776
.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 21, 2015, 06:50:38 PM
This is for regular motor usage, vacuum cleaners, egg whisks and so on.

The whole point of this part of Lawrence's work is that the system MUST have an unbalanced element in it. Not necessarily the motor itself, but another element in the chain.

Whether Lawrence's work functions is quite another matter.

Thank you for your comments.  To clarify it further, the system MUST have an oscillating element in it.  A pendulum can provide the oscillation.  A suitably unbalanced wheel is a superset of a pendulum.  It can provide the oscillation.  A suitably unbalanced cylinder is a superset of unbalanced wheels.  Thus it can also provide the oscillation. 

A gravity arm can also provide the oscillation.  An oscillating spring can also provide the oscillation.  A tank circuit can provide the oscillation.  An AC circuit can provide that oscillation.

Lawrence
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 21, 2015, 11:26:36 PM
One component that got my attention recently is the motor speed control.  In the simplified Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier experiments, I did not specify the motor speed control.

The DC Motor Speed controllers are much cheaper than the Variable frequency Controllers (VFC) for AC Motors

The good thing about not rushing into doing any actual prototypes is that the design can be examined by many. 

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 12:59:37 AM


Reaction from the machine shop:
"This sounds like a great project.  I cannot lose.  It does not matter about the final outcome.  If the prototype works, I can use it as my product and make much more money.  If it does not work, my time and services are paid.  I shall read the information carefully and submit a quote in the next few days.  Can you spell out publicly that I can use the information even if I do not win the bid?"

This post serves as the Public Statement.

Lawrence
see rely 2826

Reaction From The Machine Shop:

This is the most cockamamie idea we have ever heard of.  If this were to be true, we could unbalance our lathes and surface grinder spindles and get more accurate results.  We know this not to be true.  We could also loosen the belts on our machines but, that would only decrease efficiency.  While we appreciate your inquiry, we suggest that you go somewhere else as we have to make money in order to survive and working on a project like this, which has exactly 0 chance of working, is not our cup of tea.

Thank you,

Machine Shop
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 01:03:12 AM


Whether Lawrence's work functions is quite another matter.

Yes it is.  Simple physics and basic mechanics will tell you that it will not/can not work as Lawrence describes.  (See machine shop reply above)

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 22, 2015, 01:29:28 AM
Reaction From The Machine Shop:

This is the most cockamamie idea we have ever heard of.  If this were to be true, we could unbalance our lathes and surface grinder spindles and get more accurate results.  We know this not to be true.  We could also loosen the belts on our machines but, that would only decrease efficiency.  While we appreciate your inquiry, we suggest that you go somewhere else as we have to make money in order to survive and working on a project like this, which has exactly 0 chance of working, is not our cup of tea.

Thank you,

Machine Shop

Fortunately, the modern day educated Chinese are much more clever.  The machine shop owner is young and eager to explore new opportunities.

When a no-lose situation arises - get paid to do a customer order and free to use the idea no matter what happens, he will take the opportunity.

Only stupid Westerners who believe in their superiority in knowledge and misinterpretation of Physics will walk away and jeer.

Get the focus back to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier simplified prototype.

Sow seeds.  Some will fall on hard rock..

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 22, 2015, 01:38:29 AM
Fortunately, the modern day educated Chinese are much more clever.  The machine shop owner is young and eager to explore new opportunities.

When a no-lose situation arises - get paid to do a customer order and free to use the idea no matter what happens, he will take the opportunity.

Only stupid Westerners who believe in their superiority in knowledge and misinterpretation of Physics will walk away and jeer.

Get the focus back to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier simplified prototype.

Sow seeds.  Some will fall on hard rock..

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2826

The more likely outcome, if this were to work. Is China will crash the markets with cheap energy, and we will buy it for next to nothing. Far less than oil or natural gas,. sounds like a WIN - WIN.
When can we expect this to happen???

On the other hand if it does NOT happen....  we can always revert back to the QUERTY idea, and attach Tseung to a keyboard generator, and get our "free energy" that way.....
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 01:49:51 AM
Fortunately, the modern day educated Chinese are much more clever.  The machine shop owner is young and eager to explore new opportunities.

When a no-lose situation arises - get paid to do a customer order and free to use the idea no matter what happens, he will take the opportunity.

Only stupid Westerners who believe in their superiority in knowledge and misinterpretation of Physics will walk away and jeer.

Get the focus back to the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier simplified prototype.

Sow seeds.  Some will fall on hard rock..

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2826

Well, I worked in a machine shop since I was 12 years old.  Then, I went on to own my own shop serving the aerospace industry machining industrial and technical ceramics.  I have over 20 years in this business and, if you had written to me, my reply above would have been what you would have received.  We would machine anything you would like but, we would make you pay in advance. (Known as CIA, Cash In Advance)
If this "young" machine shop guy (which really means little to no experience) is excited about your delusional theory, then, I suppose we will have to wait yet again to see what, if anything, comes from it. 

It has been many years since you introduced your theory and, so far, there has not been one working device to prove that it is valid.  Not one.  The "working devices" that you claim work on your theory have ALL been proven NOT to work.  All we would like to see is one, just one device that works as your theory claims it should.  You have not/can not produce such a device so, you really can not blame us for being a bit skeptical.

I mean no disrespect Lawrence.  I like you.  I have said on these forums many times over the years that I admire the way that you continue to cling to your theory in the face of adversity, when device after device that you have named has failed.  This is, in a way, admirable.  You are consistent which is more than can be said of most folks these days.

I do wish you luck in proving your theory.  You probably do not believe this, but I really do.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 22, 2015, 02:02:33 AM
That's admirable Bill,

I would like to see a working device come to fruition, as my experiences have taught me such is possible, just not fully understood by science.

However, I have thoroughly read Tseungs theory of Lead-Out energy, and it simply is not what he makes it out to be.....
On top of that, he makes direct reference to devices that do not comply with his theory in the slightest. Yet he proclaims these as "evidence". Most importantly the device concerned in THIS thread....

The exact physics behind this device are well known, well presented, and available to the public.
There's nothing "Lead-Out" about it....

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 02:06:46 AM
That's admirable Bill,

I would like to see a working device come to fruition, as my experiences have taught me such is possible, just not fully understood by science.

However, I have thoroughly read Tseungs theory of Lead-Out energy, and it simply is not what he makes it out to be.....
On top of that, he makes direct reference to devices that do not comply with his theory in the slightest. Yet he proclaims these as "evidence". Most importantly the device concerned in THIS thread....

The exact physics behind this device are well known, well presented, and available to the public.
There's nothing "Lead-Out" about it....

Thank you SmOky2.  I agree with you.  That bothers me too.  We could launch a new space shuttle tomorrow and Lawrence would claim that as proof of his theory.  He is not a bad guy though, and maybe...just maybe...(dare I say it?) one of his theories will be proven.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 22, 2015, 08:36:21 AM
Good and bad Unbalanced Wheel comparisons.

A good Unbalanced Wheel produces well defined oscillations per second.  That will lead-out gravitational energy.

A bad Unbalanced Wheel will not produce well defined oscillations. 

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2826
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 22, 2015, 10:09:28 AM
Good and bad Unbalanced Wheel comparisons.

A good Unbalanced Wheel produces well defined oscillations per second.  That will lead-out gravitational energy.

A bad Unbalanced Wheel will not produce well defined oscillations. 

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2826
You're right about oscillations, but wrong about lead-out energy.


Google "Reactive energy" or "Reactive power".
Oscillations due to imbalanced wheel is described as reactive energy. Reactive energy cannot do useful work because it all happens in the oscillations itself - energy that only exchange +/- 90 degrees from eachother between a suspension and a mass. Taking energy from this oscillation, you tap it from reactive energy, and the oscillations ceases - because the phase difference narrows to less than +/- 90 degrees. Only a frictionless oscillation system exchange the energy +/- 90 degrees (in total 180 degrees) from each others suspension and mass. Hence no energy can be harvested from oscillations as an additional energy output without applying the same amount of energy from an external energy source.


This is well known, and very simple basic physics. Maybe you've gone to far with your claims to have the gut to admit you're wrong?


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 22, 2015, 11:46:48 AM
The following is the reply from an electric motor manufacturer in China.  The sensitive information has been overwritten.

hello ,

This is XXX from YYY Electric Machine MFG.Co.,Ltd  founded in 1954.  Thanks for your inquiry & glad to contract you!

We are professional manufacture  DC/AC Motor for almost 60years. Our factory can customized any ac or dc  motor ,according to customer specific requirements.

We have great interest in developing business with you. We would be glad to talk in details through

Mail: ZZZ   Phone:  ZZZ

Best regard,

XXX

*** This is what I expected from the clever and eager Chinese Manufacturers.  I shall forward them more information and develop the business relationships.  Stay tuned...

Divine Wine is for all to share.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2826

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 22, 2015, 12:11:37 PM
I am sure that there are many businesses happy to take your money to build custom units: cash in advance.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 22, 2015, 12:59:25 PM
Dear Mr. XXX,

Thank you for your speedy reply.

As mentioned in my enquiry via Alibaba.com, I am interested to find an Electric Motor Company to work with to develop a QMOGEN.

A QMOGEN is a new technology still under scientific debate.  It is a Motor and Generator pair with self-loop using lead-out gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic energy.  The best QMOGEN known to me is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  It was invented by an old inventor and used in his factory.  Initially, the inventor was accused by the local electricity company as stealing electricity.  They got the professors at Tsinghua University to investigate in 1996.

Tsinghua University found the inventor innocent.  Mr. Lee Cheung Kin, a retired Chinese Missile expert trained in USSR, and myself proposed the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory in 2004.  We were invited to Tsinghua University to present our theory in 2006.  We learned about the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier that can lead-out 30 times the Input Energy.  A diagram is attached.

Now over 50 QMOGENs have been complied by a Mr. Sterling Allan of USA.  I presented the information to some Investors and some academics.  We are interested in replicating a simplified version of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier. (Experiment 13, diagram attached).

We can use either AC or DC motors.  In the attached diagram, we show AC.  The AC Motor may start as a ½ power model.  It is connected to an unbalanced wheel or cylinder.  Initially, that can be a flywheel with a bar and weight attachment.  The motor will drive this unbalanced flywheel.  According to the Lee-Tseung lead-out theory, gravitational energy will be lead-out or brought-in the system.  The amount brought-in will vary as the square of the angular velocity.

Experiments from others indicated that sufficient gravitational energy will be brought-in around 400 rpm.  This additional energy can be transferred via a pulley and belt system to an AC Generator that can generate 2HP or more.

After steady state, the mains power can be cut off.  The Generator supplies its lead-out energy to the motor.  Essentially, the QMOGEN is self-running.  It can drive the motor and other electrical appliances.

This may sound as impossible according to the Law of Conservation of Energy.  However, if there is lead-out energy, there is NO violation.


There are two QMOGENs we are following closely, YMNEE in U.K. and Maglev in Taiwan.  Both have been demonstrated on TV and on youtube.

Experiment 13 aims to set up a platform to do full testing.  We would like to test various motor and generator pairs.  We shall also test different Unbalanced Wheels/Cylinders.  Your help will be highly appreciated.

Our investor/supporter has expressed interest in funding the experiment.  We would like to get a quote on the possible price for the experiment.  The deal is that we shall show the experimental outcome to the World.  You are encouraged to use the information to do your own development.  There will be no patents and no royalty fees.  However, you are encouraged to donate 10% of your profit to a charity of your choice.

Attached is the presentation in Chinese.  I shall email or skype in the next few days to discuss further arrangements.

Yours sincerely,

Lawrence Tseung
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 22, 2015, 01:32:12 PM
The following is the reply from an electric motor manufacturer in China.  The sensitive information has been overwritten.

hello ,

This is XXX from YYY Electric Machine MFG.Co.,Ltd  founded in 1954.  Thanks for your inquiry & glad to contract you!

We are professional manufacture  DC/AC Motor for almost 60years. Our factory can customized any ac or dc  motor ,according to customer specific requirements.

We have great interest in developing business with you. We would be glad to talk in details through

Mail: ZZZ   Phone:  ZZZ

Best regard,

XXX

*** This is what I expected from the clever and eager Chinese Manufacturers.  I shall forward them more information and develop the business relationships.  Stay tuned...

Divine Wine is for all to share.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2826

 
Reply 2826 is worthless because gravity has no energy (Only force which isn't energy), and your wallet will be empty soon with nothing in return. This is just stupid, or you are just making jokes with us :-)


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 22, 2015, 03:36:58 PM
Reaction From The Machine Shop:

This is the most cockamamie idea we have ever heard of.  If this were to be true, we could unbalance our lathes and surface grinder spindles and get more accurate results.
No, Bill, you have this element wrong. Lawrence's ideas are about excess energy, not turning accuracy. Unbalance a lathe and it probably won't turn a circular job. It will go elliptical or at least eccentric.

i have a feeling there is something in this. It goes back to Chas Campbell. Also, reminscent of the ability to unstick a stuck nut by banging an adjustable with a hammer rather than applying a steady force. (The classic explanation makes no more sense than the domain theory of magnetism).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 22, 2015, 04:01:53 PM
No, Bill, you have this element wrong. Lawrence's ideas are about excess energy, not turning accuracy. Unbalance a lathe and it probably won't turn a circular job. It will go elliptical or at least eccentric.

i have a feeling there is something in this. It goes back to Chas Campbell. Also, reminscent of the ability to unstick a stuck nut by banging an adjustable with a hammer rather than applying a steady force. (The classic explanation makes no more sense than the domain theory of magnetism).
Unfreezing a fastener by hammering on it should make a lot of sense:  There is almost no movement, but very high peak force.  Unbalancing something makes it more complicated to analyze, and more difficult to measure accurately due to the loss of symmetry for analysis and the wide variation of forces for measurement.

Suppose for a moment that unbalancing a wheel were to suck in energy from somewhere.  In order to establish that were true, one would not need a motor and generator.  All they would need is a motor, the unbalanced wheel, an equivalent balanced wheel, a flexible coupling, a flywheel and dynamometer.  In one test the motor drives the unbalanced wheel that through the flexible coupling drives a flywheel which in turn drives a dynamometer.  In a second test the unbalanced wheel is replaced with the balanced wheel.  The dynamometer measures input electrical power to the motor and output mechanical power.  If there s a benefit to the unbalanced wheel it will show up as superior performance  to the balanced wheel.  If the unbalanced wheel generates or sucks in surplus energy, then once spinning the motor could be shut off and the system would keep spinning until the dynamometer load is large enough to absorb all the surplus.  Taken to the next logical step: a motor would not even be needed.  One could mount a bicycle wheel and unbalance it, and then spin it up.  If it slows down, then the alleged "lead-out" energy is not enough to even overcome the bearing friction of the bicycle wheel.  If it slows down faster than the same wheel with the same total mass balanced, then the alleged "lead-out" energy is no benefit at all.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 22, 2015, 04:07:35 PM
"the ability to unstick a stuck nut by banging an adjustable with a hammer rather than applying a steady force." that is completely explained by the IMPACT (defined as: change in acceleration with respect to time) of the hammer blow; that gives a much higher momentary force than the steady force of the wrench. You have to overcome the static friction of the stuck nut, which is a high force.
Chas Campbell never had an OU device.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 22, 2015, 04:28:56 PM
Unfreezing a fastener by hammering on it should make a lot of sense:  There is almost no movement, but very high peak force. 
This is the classic explanation, as mentioned by Memoryman in #2998. I don't accept it any more than the domain theory of magnetism.

The energy required to tear through the rusted up surfaces which have chemically merged is high. I don't claim to have an explanation but I don't accept what is glibly dished up in schools.

I should ask: Is that patent crap known as the domain theory still taught in schools?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 22, 2015, 04:53:00 PM
No, Bill, you have this element wrong. Lawrence's ideas are about excess energy, not turning accuracy. Unbalance a lathe and it probably won't turn a circular job. It will go elliptical or at least eccentric.

i have a feeling there is something in this. It goes back to Chas Campbell. Also, reminscent of the ability to unstick a stuck nut by banging an adjustable with a hammer rather than applying a steady force. (The classic explanation makes no more sense than the domain theory of magnetism).
This elliptical or eccentric curve the hub of that unbalanced wheel is following is what I have tried to explain to Lawrence earlier.
It doesn't help. He just continues refering to post 2826...
An unbalanced wheel will ofcourse viberate when it rotates. Nothing new to that.
The thing is that Lawrence believe the energy in this viberation is coming from somewhere else - literally.
As long there is a viberating wheel, we must assume the wheel is connected to some sort of suspension or on the end some kind of a lever/seesaw thing.
The thing is that this viberation does not follow the weights position.
If you have a speed cam, you will see this very clear, and by watching the video in slow motion later,
you would clearly understand that there is no excess energy in unbalanced wheels.
Inertia of both the weight placed on the wheel, and the other weight has inertia.
This inertia will counterforce the wheel - it takes time to start moving the weigts in any direction,
and further the same amount of energy as it took to accelerate them must be spent to deaccelerate them too.
Not only the viberation, but also the rpm will slow down.
This kind of experiments has been repeated a countless times by hobbyists and scientist.
As I have explained earlier, we are dealing with REACTIVE energy. Reactive energy cannot do work. Simple as that.


Lawrence will continue to refer to post 2826. Never mind that post.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 22, 2015, 04:59:05 PM
Why is the nut stuck.

It could be stuck for several reasons,, but they all come down to resistance,, what is causing it does not matter.

Why do you heat up a press fit pulley before installing it.

For the same reason that banging on a fastener that is stuck helps to undo it, it momentarily reduces the resistance.

The unbalanced wheel can indeed momentarily store energy, but where does it come from and where does it go,, how does that happen,, what does that look like.

I understand the stuck nut and the press fit,, I have read the theory behind both of them and was given methods of using the theory that worked.

I have not been given this "walk through" from Lawrence.  I understand how some energy can enter into the unbalanced wheel and where THAT energy comes from and where THAT energy goes to but I do not have any method given that shows more energy entering into the system, not have I been given a method of using that extra energy that works.

As I understand it:  If I have a system that already is providing an increase in output over the cost of the input then using an oscillation will further enhance that gain.

This is not very instructive.
Flywheels make great mechanical integrators.  So if someone has a mechanical device that cyclically absorbs and releases energy, they could hook that device up to a flywheel and the flywheel would average the energy out.  If the device gained energy each cycle, the flywheel would accelerate  cycle by cycle.  It would then be trivial to observe that there is an energy gain by observing the flywheel's steady acceleration.  One would actually need a brake of some kind to load the device down so that it would not accelerate to the point of destruction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 22, 2015, 06:06:44 PM
Paul-R, you can believe what you want, including in the magic of powdered unicorn horns, or Creation theory, but that does not alter what has been verified by experiments.
You don't even have a better theory.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 22, 2015, 08:04:24 PM
Another positive response from an electric motor manufacturer in China.

Dear Mr. Lawrence Tseung,

 

Thanks for your enquiry.

Yes, we are interested in your information. This is XXX.  Our detail Motor's information will be sent to you by email.

Please check.

Best regards

XXX

*** At least two manufacturers in China are interested in the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Experiment.  They have the whole range of motors, generators, test equipment etc.  It is much easier for them to do the experiment and tuning than myself.

Sow seeds...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994 (The focus now is on working with Electric Motor Companies to do the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Experiment.)

 


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 22, 2015, 09:35:51 PM
No Lawrence, ALL shops, wherever, are interested in paying jobs. it's highly doubtful that they care about the use of the thing that they manufacture.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 22, 2015, 10:35:46 PM
Another positive response from an electric motor manufacturer in China.

Dear Mr. Lawrence Tseung,

 

Thanks for your enquiry.

Yes, we are interested in your information. This is XXX.  Our detail Motor's information will be sent to you by email.

Please check.

Best regards

XXX

*** At least two manufacturers in China are interested in the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Experiment.  They have the whole range of motors, generators, test equipment etc.  It is much easier for them to do the experiment and tuning than myself.

Sow seeds...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994 (The focus now is on working with Electric Motor Companies to do the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Experiment.)
The alleged technology is hardly being suppressed then is it?  What excuse will you offer a year from now when none of these manufacturers builds anything that successfully self-loops?  Why is it that your "lead-out" theory requires either a motor or a generator in the first place?  Why can't you show an unbalanced wheel self accelerate?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 22, 2015, 10:50:52 PM
Just made a small experiment to point out that reactive energy will tap an imbalanced wheel of energy if we add a load to it.

http://youtu.be/vV3RAL-SWjc (http://youtu.be/vV3RAL-SWjc)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 22, 2015, 11:08:18 PM
Just made a small experiment to point out that reactive energy will tap an imbalanced wheel of energy if we add a load to it.

http://youtu.be/vV3RAL-SWjc (http://youtu.be/vV3RAL-SWjc)
That is a brilliantly simple demonstration of both what you intended and that there is no "lead-out" energy to be had from a spinning off balance wheel as with or without loading the pendulum the wheel slowed down rather than sped up.  Was Tsinghua University too intellectually encumbered to test Lawrence's basic claim?  What has Lawrence been doing this past decade other than promoting complete BS?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 11:32:16 PM
Just made a small experiment to point out that reactive energy will tap an imbalanced wheel of energy if we add a load to it.

http://youtu.be/vV3RAL-SWjc (http://youtu.be/vV3RAL-SWjc)

I just heard on the news that Vidar's garage imploded due to the excess of lead out energy from his experiment.  I think they are still evacuating the neighborhood.  I hope he is OK.  You could just sense all of that extra free energy in that unbalanced wheel in the video.

But, seriously, nice video Vidar.  I hope Lawrence sees it and finally understands what is really happening here.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 11:35:38 PM
No, Bill, you have this element wrong. Lawrence's ideas are about excess energy, not turning accuracy. Unbalance a lathe and it probably won't turn a circular job. It will go elliptical or at least eccentric.

i have a feeling there is something in this. It goes back to Chas Campbell. Also, reminscent of the ability to unstick a stuck nut by banging an adjustable with a hammer rather than applying a steady force. (The classic explanation makes no more sense than the domain theory of magnetism).

Paul:

With all due respect, there is nothing in this at all.  Watch Vidar's video and you will see what we thought would happen...happens.  It goes back to my unbalanced car wheel experiment I suggested that Lawrence do.  Of course, he did not do it as he probably really knows what the outcome would be.  Unbalanced=less efficiency not higher efficiency and certainly not overunity.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 23, 2015, 12:30:21 AM
I have now got 2 more replies from Chinese Electric Motor Companies interested in the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN platform project described in reply 2994.

http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443378/#msg443378

I shall be contacting two local machine shops in Hong Kong today.

It is now certain that the experiment will be done in multiple places with proper facilities.  I do not need to come up with the money myself.  Just give them a presentation.  They can read my posts and the many negative comments.  It is their choice whether they do the experiment.

Should I care about the comments from the Nay Sayers in this forum?  These Nay Sayers will not do the QMOGEN experiment as described.  Sow seeds.  Some will fall on rocks...

It looks like the fertile soils are in Asia...


Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 12:44:07 AM
I have now got 2 more replies from Chinese Electric Motor Companies interested in the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN project described in reply 2994.

http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443378/#msg443378

I shall be contacting two local machine shops in Hong Kong today.

It is now certain that the experiment will be done in multiple places with proper facilities.  I do not need to come up with the money myself.  Just give them a presentation.  They can read my posts and the many negative comments.  It is their choice whether they do the experiment.

Should I care about the comments from the Nay Sayers in this forum?  These Nay Sayers will not do the QMOGEN experiment as described.  Sow seeds.  Some will fall on rocks...

It looks like the fertile soils are in Asia...


Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994
It's nice that you hope other people will conduct experiments with respect to your BS "lead-out" ideas.  Well Low-Q just did.  His experiment completely falsifies your BS "lead-out" claims.  He drove his unbalanced wheel with his Dremel tool motor.  The wheel did not self accelerate.  It decelerated.  It came to a stop with only a bearing load.  Ergo, attaching a lossy generator to a lossy motor back to the wheel would only have brought it to a stop in less time.  Prattling on as you might you cannot defend your hapless ideas against Low-Q's brilliantly simple, yet thorough demonstration.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 23, 2015, 06:46:47 AM
I have now got 2 more replies from Chinese Electric Motor Companies interested in the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN platform project described in reply 2994.

http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443378/#msg443378 (http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443378/#msg443378)

I shall be contacting two local machine shops in Hong Kong today.

It is now certain that the experiment will be done in multiple places with proper facilities.  I do not need to come up with the money myself.  Just give them a presentation.  They can read my posts and the many negative comments.  It is their choice whether they do the experiment.

Should I care about the comments from the Nay Sayers in this forum?  These Nay Sayers will not do the QMOGEN experiment as described.  Sow seeds.  Some will fall on rocks...

It looks like the fertile soils are in Asia...


Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994
@Lawrence: See reply 3007 (http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443437/#msg443437)
This video proves that "Tsunami University" is bogus and wrong.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 08:00:35 AM
This is the classic explanation, as mentioned by Memoryman in #2998. I don't accept it any more than the domain theory of magnetism.

The energy required to tear through the rusted up surfaces which have chemically merged is high. I don't claim to have an explanation but I don't accept what is glibly dished up in schools.

I should ask: Is that patent crap known as the domain theory still taught in schools?
It takes high force to break the surfaces from each other.  The distance that it takes is very small.  Consequently:  the energy required is not that great.

What is it about the idea of magnetic domains that you don't like?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 23, 2015, 04:59:58 PM
Paul-R, you can believe what you want, including in the magic of powdered unicorn horns
What is your purpose, Memoryman, with this gratuitously offensive comment?

Is it to big yourself up or pull me down?

Either way, I suspect that you are frightened.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 23, 2015, 05:08:06 PM
It goes back to my unbalanced car wheel experiment I suggested that Lawrence do.  Of course, he did not do it as he probably really knows what the outcome would be.  Unbalanced=less efficiency not higher efficiency and certainly not overunity.

I agree with all this, Bill. The idea that one can pedal a bike more easily up a hill by strapping a lead weight to the spokes on one side is patently ludicrous.

It seems to me something doesn't fit. Lawrence's explanations aren't explanations; they are re-statements. There is a link missing; that's all.  If we find it there may be a revelation.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 05:11:31 PM
I agree with all this, Bill. The idea that one can pedal a bike more easily up a hill by strapping a lead weight to the spokes on one side is patently ludicrous.

It seems to me something doesn't fit. Lawrence's explanations aren't explanations; they are re-statements. There is a link missing; that's all.  If we find it there may be a revelation.
There is no revelation.  There is Lawrence pitching unworkable devices.  He has been doing this on message boards for at least a decade that I know about.  At one time he was pitching buoyancy drives.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 23, 2015, 05:15:44 PM
There is no revelation.
Can you show that there is no revelation to be discovered?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 23, 2015, 05:17:31 PM
What is your purpose, Memoryman, with this gratuitously offensive comment?

Is it to big yourself up or pull me down?

Either way, I suspect that you are frightened.
Paul-R, it's up to you to decide if something is offensive.
Beliefs ultimately make no difference - actions and results do.
The world is full of people who believe things; so what?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 23, 2015, 05:21:03 PM
Paul-R, it's up to you to decide if something is offensive.
Beliefs ultimately make no difference - actions and results do.
The world is full of people who believe things; so what?
I think that the fear of your Physics world being rocked or even disturbed is getting in the way of your dispassionate objectivity. Consider that instead of something to lose, you may have something to gain.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 23, 2015, 05:34:27 PM
Paul-R, it's up to you to decide if something is offensive.
This is absolutely correct. (viz those Islamist nutbags and cartoons of prophets).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 23, 2015, 05:47:02 PM
I just heard on the news that Vidar's garage imploded due to the excess of lead out energy from his experiment.  I think they are still evacuating the neighborhood.  I hope he is OK.  You could just sense all of that extra free energy in that unbalanced wheel in the video.

But, seriously, nice video Vidar.  I hope Lawrence sees it and finally understands what is really happening here.

Bill
HAHA :-) Don't mess with lead-out energy - if you have neighbors :-) My computer screen shrinked from 15" to 1" after one watch of the video - now I'm using a microscope to see what I'm typing here...


Maybe I should write this university an email telling them that lead-out energy is impossible.


Vidar


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 05:55:15 PM
Lawrence declines to identify any document from Tsinghua University, or anyone from the university that corroborates his claim that they ever developed an "Energy Magnifier".  I suspect that if anyone were to contact the university with respect to Lawrence's claims, any response would be puzzlement.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 23, 2015, 06:02:39 PM
This is absolutely correct. (viz those Islamist nutbags and cartoons of prophets).
Strange that you have this opinion (completely wrong) of me without knowing anything about me; however, I have no need to prove anything to anybody.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 06:07:48 PM
Can you show that there is no revelation to be discovered?
With respect to Lawrence's "lead-out" energy claims, each and every machine he has diagrammed has failed to support his claims of surplus energy.  Lawrence has failed to show any basis in accepted theory for his "lead-out" energy claims, and he has failed to show any experimental evidence for those claims.  Consequently, there is no evidence to suggest that there is any revelation.  Quite the contrary, one need only look at Low-Q's excellent demonstration to see Lawrence's claims:

"Lead-out" energy that Lawrence claims manifests from spinning an unbalanced wheel does not manifest.  Instead of speeding up as it would if such energy manifested, Low-Q's demonstration shows that the unbalanced wheel slows down and eventually stops even without any external load.

Reactive energy that Lawrence claims is able to perform work is not surplus and must be replenished.  Low-Q demonstrates that loading the supporting pendulum arm causes the unbalanced wheel to slow down faster than leaving the arm unloaded.

Can you cite any accepted theory that supports Lawrence's claims?  Can you cite any experimental evidence that supports Lawrence's claims?

If not then we are left with the huge body of evidence that supports conventional physics, and none that supports Lawrence's opposing claims.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 23, 2015, 07:12:30 PM

Can you cite any accepted theory that supports Lawrence's claims?
Free energy research involves challenging the "accepted theory". That is much of the essence of it.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 23, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
Free energy research involves challenging the "accepted theory". That is much of the essence of it.
And what makes you think that I am not willing to challenge?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 23, 2015, 08:01:45 PM
The proposed test procedure for the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Platform.

1.    Assume that the build is according to Experiment 13 as shown in reply 2994.
2.   The Unbalanced Wheel is a flywheel as shown in reply 2990.
3.   The first test will not have any Unbalanced Wheels.  The Motor just drives the Generator via the pulley and belt.  This is NOT expected to work.  However, the speed of rotation can be varied.  The purpose is to detect any possible resonance.
4.   The second test is to add a balanced flywheel.  The balanced flywheel will store some mechanical energy.  That will help the switching over from mains or battery source to Generator output.  This may possibly work as the flywheel may not be perfectly balanced.
5.   The third test is to make change to the Unbalanced Flywheel in small increments.  Any weight or moving away from the center will increase the centrifugal force and produce the lead-out gravitational energy.  This step must be very careful.  Any loose parts may fly out.  A protective “cage” is recommended.  This is the most likely step to see the lead-out energy.
6.   The fourth test is to change the Motor and Generator Pairs.  Some combination is expected to be better than others.
7.   The fifth test is to vary the external load.  The initial load can be a fan and a light bulb.  The new load can be other household electrical appliances.
8.   All tests will be well recorded, videotaped and analyzed.  There is no hurry to get to any result.

All the above should be tested in a proper environment.  The test laboratories of Electric Motor Companies will be best.  University laboratories will be second best.  Well-equipped machine shops will be considered.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994

*** I expect that similar platforms and tests will be done confidentially in many Electric Motor Company Laboratories.  The Companies are likely to produce "integrated" products - making it easy for the consumer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 23, 2015, 08:17:38 PM
The proposed test procedure for the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Platform.

1.    Assume that the build is according to Experiment 13 as shown in reply 2994.
2.   The Unbalanced Wheel is a flywheel as shown in reply 2990.
3.   The first test will not have any Unbalanced Wheels.  The Motor just drives the Generator via the pulley and belt.  This is NOT expected to work.  However, the speed of rotation can be varied.  The purpose is to detect any possible resonance.
4.   The second test is to add a balanced flywheel.  The balanced flywheel will store some mechanical energy.  That will help the switching over from mains or battery source to Generator output.  This may possibly work as the flywheel may not be perfectly balanced.
5.   The third test is to make change to the Unbalanced Flywheel in small increments.  Any weight or moving away from the center will increase the centrifugal force and produce the lead-out gravitational energy.  This step must be very careful.  Any loose parts may fly out.  A protective “cage” is recommended.  This is the most likely step to see the lead-out energy.
6.   The fourth test is to change the Motor and Generator Pairs.  Some combination is expected to be better than others.
7.   The fifth test is to vary the external load.  The initial load can be a fan and a light bulb.  The new load can be other household electrical appliances.
8.   All tests will be well recorded, videotaped and analyzed.  There is no hurry to get to any result.

All the above should be tested in a proper environment.  The test laboratories of Electric Motor Companies will be best.  University laboratories will be second best.  Well-equipped machine shops will be considered.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994

*** I expect that similar platforms and tests will be done confidentially in many Electric Motor Company Laboratories.  The Companies are likely to produce "integrated" products - making it easy for the consumer.
Lawrence, do you really ignore what we other members try to say to you here?
We have by a simple demonstration (I did this experiment yesterday and put the video on youtube) proved that your design never can produce lead-out energy. Why do you continue? You are unstoppable, man!  :o 
Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc)

Sent you a PM with the same text.

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 09:19:14 PM
Free energy research involves challenging the "accepted theory". That is much of the essence of it.
Both you and Lawrence come with empty hands.  There is no challenge other than Lawrence prattling on with empty claims in the face of hard data that refutes those claims. Lawrence is venturing from fool to fraud.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 09:22:27 PM
Lawrence, do you really ignore what we other members try to say to you here?
We have by a simple demonstration (I did this experiment yesterday and put the video on youtube) proved that your design never can produce lead-out energy. Why do you continue? You are unstoppable, man!  :o 
Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc)

Sent you a PM with the same text.

Vidar
Lawrence apparently gets his jollies constantly promoting machines as overunity that he knows cannot possibly work as your demonstration aptly shows for his claimed "lead-out" energy that is supposed to come from spinning up an unbalanced wheel with a motor.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 23, 2015, 09:42:44 PM
Lawrence apparently gets his jollies constantly promoting machines as overunity that he knows cannot possibly work as your demonstration aptly shows for his claimed "lead-out" energy that is supposed to come from spinning up an unbalanced wheel with a motor.
I guess it's not worth "teaching" him any more. He does not get it. For some reason he don't. I try hard not to get frustrated over a problem that I cannot fix :-)


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 23, 2015, 11:20:09 PM
Another way of leading-out gravitational energy via Centrifugal Force is via the William Skinner Device.

In a way, it is another QMOGEN.  A small motor driving a device and then drive a generator to achieve more output.

The US and Chinese Government will be forced to disclose their "top secret" soon. 

If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy MUST be able to be lead-out.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor and the 180HP Liang Car will see daylight.  That is why the paid debunkers or Nay Sayers are trying so hard to try to persuade others not to do the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Platform experiment. They will do other experiments to distract and try to arouse useless anger.

Will they succeed?  Or will scientific truth succeed?  Will the Electric Motor Companies do the Experiments?  Will results come from China, India or elsewhere?

Sow seeds.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 11:38:01 PM
Another way of leading-out gravitational energy via Centrifugal Force is via the William Skinner Device.
Force is not energy.  Since your unbalanced wheel devices do not "lead-out" this is not another way to do something that the unbalanced wheel doesn't do.  In over 75 years no one seems to have been able to make their own working William Skinner device.  I know why and so do you.
Quote

In a way, it is another QMOGEN.  A small motor driving a device and then drive a generator to achieve more output.

The US and Chinese Government will be forced to disclose their "top secret" soon. 
As far as free energy goes there is no evidence that they hold any secrets.
Quote

If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy MUST be able to be lead-out.
You have never shown any evidence that any kind of energy can be "lead-out".
Quote
   The 225 HP Pulse Motor and the 180HP Liang Car will see daylight.  That is why the paid debunkers or Nay Sayers are trying so hard to try to persuade others not to do the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Platform experiment. They will do other experiments to distract and try to arouse useless anger.
Keep telling your lies all you like Lawrence.  Your credibility could not be lower.
Quote

Will they succeed?  Or will scientific truth succeed?  Will the Electric Motor Companies do the Experiments?  Will results come from China, India or elsewhere?

Sow seeds.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 2994
Low-Q has performed a simple yet complete experiment that completely refutes your gravity "lead-out" energy claims.  You refuse to comment on it.  I know why and so do you.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 23, 2015, 11:52:37 PM
It's surprising that the US and China fail to keep their top-secret OU devices from Lawrence.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 24, 2015, 12:32:41 AM
It's surprising that the US and China fail to keep their top-secret OU devices from Lawrence.
Isn't it though?  And even though he tells everyone he can about them, no one can make them work.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 24, 2015, 10:42:23 AM
It's surprising that the US and China fail to keep their top-secret OU devices from Lawrence.
Bulls eye :-) 10 points to you :-) Just let him live his fantacy world. For all we know he might have a medical condition. Crazy people isn't easy to repair :-)

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 24, 2015, 09:45:17 PM
The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Platform Experiment
References:
1.   Reply 3028 at overunity.com, Milkovic 2SO thread. 
Experimental procedure
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443538/#msg443538
2.   Reply 2990
Examples of Good and Bad Unbalanced Wheels
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443347/#msg443347
3.   Reply 2994
Experiment 13 configuration suggestion
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443378/#msg443378
4.   Reply 2981
Oscillating element rather than simple Unbalancing
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443220/#msg443220
5.   Reply 2960
First attempt on estimating the material cost (less than HKD3,00)
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442824/#msg442824
6.   Reply 2941
Technical Presentation to Bright Students
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442824/#msg442824
7.   Reply 2943
Last attempt in the explanation of lead-out energy
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442470/#msg442470
8.   Reply 2953
Presentation in Chinese
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442672/#msg442672
9.   Reply 2920
The Taiwan Maglev QMOGEN
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442400/#msg442400
10.   Reply 2870
Explain eply 2826
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg441896/#msg441896
11.   Reply 2844
The Terawatt QMOGEN and test by UL
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg441342/#msg441342
12.   Reply 2826
Milkovic 2SO is a lead-out Energy Device
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg441078/#msg441078

This post will be updated as necessary.  It will help the new comer to focus on the appropriate technical information.

Lawrence Tseung
reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 24, 2015, 09:51:34 PM
rehashing the same posts; Google "Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier" and the only reference outside this website is to a nuclear reactor.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 25, 2015, 02:25:57 AM
Hey, Lawrence is not a bad guy.  He is not selling anything nor trying to raise money for these devices.  (As far as I know)  He has backed his theory for many, many years now.  All of us old timers here remember when he first started.  I believe it was Hans VonLieven that first debunked his bouncy/hydraulic device.  (Remember the Piss Mobile?)

Sure, we all agree that his theories are not correct, and it is frustrating that when he is shown evidence to disprove what he is saying, he ignores it, but, I still think he is a decent guy and I, for one, would enjoy sitting down with him over a cup of tea. (or a beer, or whatever)

So, my point is, take apart his theories, show him why they are incorrect (again) but please do not attack him personally as I believe he deserves better.  If, for no other reason, he has been somewhat of a fixture here at OU from the early days. 

This is different from the QEG folks living high off the hog on other people's money in what is an obvious scam.  I do not think that they (The save the world idiots) even believe in their own writings.  Lawrence does believe in his theories and I think that puts him in a different class of folks then all of the scammers we have seen over the years.

I still disagree with him about all of his theories but, I like this fellow.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 25, 2015, 06:04:43 AM
Hey, Lawrence is not a bad guy.  He is not selling anything nor trying to raise money for these devices.  (As far as I know)  He has backed his theory for many, many years now.  All of us old timers here remember when he first started.  I believe it was Hans VonLieven that first debunked his bouncy/hydraulic device.  (Remember the Piss Mobile?)

Sure, we all agree that his theories are not correct, and it is frustrating that when he is shown evidence to disprove what he is saying, he ignores it, but, I still think he is a decent guy and I, for one, would enjoy sitting down with him over a cup of tea. (or a beer, or whatever)

So, my point is, take apart his theories, show him why they are incorrect (again) but please do not attack him personally as I believe he deserves better.  If, for no other reason, he has been somewhat of a fixture here at OU from the early days. 

This is different from the QEG folks living high off the hog on other people's money in what is an obvious scam.  I do not think that they (The save the world idiots) even believe in their own writings.  Lawrence does believe in his theories and I think that puts him in a different class of folks then all of the scammers we have seen over the years.

I still disagree with him about all of his theories but, I like this fellow.

Thanks,

Bill
Lawrence promotes BS.  That he does not actually try to present any technical arument against the refutations of his fantasies strongly suggests that he knows all too well that what he is promoting is BS.  Cornered, Lawrence resorts to made up stories about paid suppression agents.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Thaelin on March 25, 2015, 11:10:00 AM
To all concerned:
   I have to say that LT truly believes in what he says. That is conviction at its finest.
Little of what you say will sway him from that goal. Belief is a powerful thing when taken
to heart. He has long endured the trials of this place. Many have come and gone in the
span of time. I respect him for his commitment to that belief. I would love to meet him
in person just to know the entity of his being.
   As in Pink Floyd, shine on you diamond and yes I purposely left out that other word as
it doesn't really fit.

thay
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 25, 2015, 01:02:29 PM
To all concerned:
   I have to say that LT truly believes in what he says. That is conviction at its finest.
Little of what you say will sway him from that goal. Belief is a powerful thing when taken
to heart. He has long endured the trials of this place. Many have come and gone in the
span of time. I respect him for his commitment to that belief. I would love to meet him
in person just to know the entity of his being.
   As in Pink Floyd, shine on you diamond and yes I purposely left out that other word as
it doesn't really fit.

thay
If one values incessant promotion of disproven ideas as sincerity that is one's choice to make.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 25, 2015, 09:20:11 PM
Electric Motor Manufacturers in China.

A search via Alibaba.com yielded over 500.
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+motor+manufaturers

Sow seeds...

By now, there is zero chance of Chinese Electric Motor Companies NOT knowing QMOGEN.

You are welcome to do something similar in your own country.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 25, 2015, 11:58:18 PM
Theory of the Flying Saucer.

If one has infinite energy, one can generate pulsed circular motion.  One can control the direction of the centrifugal force and thus fly in any direction.

Changing direction - even reversing direction is easy with centrifugal force.

There is no need for air to use aerodynamic forces.

Once a Nation masters lead-out energy, it will master the flying saucer.

The rumor that both USA and China already possess the Flying Saucer has theoretical grounds.

Will the Governments try to keep the top secret?  Will they pay the debunkers...

Divine wine flows...  The World will drop the Military Destructive Applications and go for peaceful Applications...

Sow seeds...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 26, 2015, 01:14:44 PM
Some old experiments by Forever Yuen in 2008 on Centrifugal Force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnxDJ29iL_0

Milkovic 2SO uses centrifugal force... Chan Wheel uses it better.  Skinner Device leads-out more energy.

Pulse Wheels can produce large centrifugal force...  They not only lead-out energy but also serve as heart of the Flying Saucer.

Flying technologies:
1. Aerodynamic forces - Bernoulli's equation - pressure on the side smaller when fluid moves faster.
2. Rocket principle - action and reaction.
3. Flying Saucer - controlled, pulsed Centrifugal Force - no need for air; no need to push out material...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 26, 2015, 04:40:40 PM
All this talk of  flywheels reminds me of Eric Lathwaite. Also, a very interesting small square plywood board. It had motors with flywheels mounted north, south east and west, all rotating as one might imagine. The entire board is then forced to rotate and an upward thrust is a generated.

No fancy physics here, just processional forces adding up coherently. But it is an idea which deserves more development.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 26, 2015, 09:57:10 PM
Actually Lawrence one would need to control inertia.

You can not make a change in direction at speed without destroying the occupants unless you can find, manipulate and control an inertial field.  If and when such is found then flight is rather simple and nothing else would be needed except for maybe a vessel to contain an atmosphere.

Forget human flight for now.  Just focus on Centrifugal Force leading-out energy and capable of moving around in space.

Should USA and China disclose the "top secret" to benefit humanity now?  There is no stopping any Nation pouring resources on such research.  The information in this website and this thread will be studied with scientific vigor.

Lawrence
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 26, 2015, 10:08:18 PM
All this talk of  flywheels reminds me of Eric Lathwaite. Also, a very interesting small square plywood board. It had motors with flywheels mounted north, south east and west, all rotating as one might imagine. The entire board is then forced to rotate and an upward thrust is a generated.

No fancy physics here, just processional forces adding up coherently. But it is an idea which deserves more development.

I believe you are talking about information covered in:
http://www.overunity.com/5570/has-somebody-used-eric-laithwaite-s-device/#.VRVVGOlFBjo

In there, overunity energy was mentioned as well as flying.

Since this thread has already got much following, I shall continue the discussion here.

The power of Internet is that it can bring apparently unrelated pieces of information together...

More on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI_HFnNTfyU

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 26, 2015, 10:21:01 PM
one of the dangers of the internet is that it can make totally unrelated pieces of information APPEAR to be related.
You do understand, Lawrence, that centrifugal force is not a real force, but apparent or imaginary; centripetal force IS real.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 27, 2015, 01:47:42 AM
one of the dangers of the internet is that it can make totally unrelated pieces of information APPEAR to be related.
You do understand, Lawrence, that centrifugal force is not a real force, but apparent or imaginary; centripetal force IS real.

Actually, I learned it as centripetal acceleration and not force.  Of course, my physics professor might have been an idiot.  Some of them were back then, ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 27, 2015, 02:15:18 AM
from Wikipedia (the ultimate source):
A centripetal force (from Latin centrum "center" and petere "to seek") is a force that makes a body follow a curved path. Its direction is always orthogonal to the velocity of the body and towards the fixed point of the instantaneous center of curvature of the path.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 27, 2015, 04:36:38 AM
from Wikipedia (the ultimate source):
A centripetal force (from Latin centrum "center" and petere "to seek") is a force that makes a body follow a curved path. Its direction is always orthogonal to the velocity of the body and towards the fixed point of the instantaneous center of curvature of the path.

With a radial acceleration toward the center of mass.

This is what I recall...but do not trust my memory.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 27, 2015, 12:09:25 PM
Remember the sling in David and Goliath.

People know about circular motion and centrifugal force and the "deadly" effects then.

When an object is in circular motion, a force is needed to keep it in "orbit".  Once this force is taken out, the object will fly off in the tangential direction.  The sling is an example.

In a Flying Saucer, the force holding the circular moving "thing" may be magnetic or electromagnetic.  It is simple to turn off the electromagnet - take out the force. The "thing" will fly off in the tangential direction. 

There are many ways to skin the cat.  But the outcome is - the object can fly without air and without ejecting matter.  This third way of flying should be investigated further. 

The bright minds in this forum can be more productive in coming up with different designs.

USA and Chinese Military may already be very advanced...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 27, 2015, 12:34:31 PM
one of the dangers of the internet is that it can make totally unrelated pieces of information APPEAR to be related.
You do understand, Lawrence, that centrifugal force is not a real force, but apparent or imaginary; centripetal force IS real.

Please - try to explain how Goliath was killed. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 27, 2015, 03:01:16 PM
Please - try to explain how Goliath was killed.
That is an anecdotal story; I was not there.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 27, 2015, 09:28:46 PM
That is an anecdotal story; I was not there.

It does not matter whether you were there.  Either Google or youtube with the keyword Sling.  Find out how the sling uses circular motion and centrifugal force to give a piece of stone the high velocity.

I propose that such a force can be used as heart of the Flying Saucer.  (I do not want to argue on the exact meaning of the terms of centripetal and centrifugal force.)

I use the term Centrifugal force loosely.  The Milkovic 2SO uses centrifugal force of the swinging pendulum to increase the moment to lift the Weight.  Understanding this centrifugal force will lead to the understanding of lead-out energy and the Skinner device. It will confirm the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier using properly Unbalanced Cylinders.  QMOGEN is theoretical certainty.

Now I propose the same line of thought will lead us to the understanding of the Flying Saucer.

The Bright Students will come up with the many possible designs...  Nations should and will pour in resources on such research.

USA and China Military must reconsider how to deal with such "state secrets"...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 27, 2015, 10:11:51 PM
The first primitive design of the Flying Saucer to stimulate thoughts.

1.  A magnet can be sent into circular motion on a track with proper electromagnetic arrangements.
2.  If there were no electromagnet at the center, the centrifugal force will press on the walls of the vessel.
3.  The electromagnet at the center can provide the attractive force to keep circular motion.  No force need to be exerted on the walls of the vessel.
4.  If the force in 3 were to be cut off abruptly, the Magnet will exert force on the wall again.  it can be made to "hit" the impact mechanism to provide the force to move the Flying Saucer.

The above is the seed...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 28, 2015, 02:05:56 AM
The first primitive design of the Flying Saucer to stimulate thoughts.

1.  A magnet can be sent into circular motion on a track with proper electromagnetic arrangements.
2.  If there were no electromagnet at the center, the centrifugal force will press on the walls of the vessel.
3.  The electromagnet at the center can provide the attractive force to keep circular motion.  No force need to be exerted on the walls of the vessel.
4.  If the force in 3 were to be cut off abruptly, the Magnet will exert force on the wall again.  it can be made to "hit" the impact mechanism to provide the force to move the Flying Saucer.

The above is the seed...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d1GO7rqg6Q

Has John Searl done it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 28, 2015, 02:41:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d1GO7rqg6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d1GO7rqg6Q)

Has John Searl done it?

No, that entire episode was proven to be a huge lie.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on March 28, 2015, 03:28:55 AM
Lawrence, " (I do not want to argue on the exact meaning of the terms of centripetal and centrifugal force.)" precisely.
There is no possibility of an meaningful idea exchange if there is no agreement on definition of the terms used; the result of using an imaginary force is as imaginary as your "lead-out energy" idea.
You can sow your seeds all you want; they cannot sprout because they are sterile.
After many years of promoting your theory, there is no REAL prototype out there; we know why that is, don't we?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 28, 2015, 07:22:19 PM
Lawrence, " (I do not want to argue on the exact meaning of the terms of centripetal and centrifugal force.)" precisely.
There is no possibility of an meaningful idea exchange if there is no agreement on definition of the terms used; the result of using an imaginary force is as imaginary as your "lead-out energy" idea.
You can sow your seeds all you want; they cannot sprout because they are sterile.
After many years of promoting your theory, there is no REAL prototype out there; we know why that is, don't we?
It does not help.
Lawrence will continue to post just like nothing has happend, or as no one has tried to correct his crackpot ideas.
He will continue referring to one of his previous posts.
His medical condition, B.T.C.S.W.E.O.U.O.B (Blind To Common Sense With Extreme Over Unity Obsession), makes him the only guy in the world knowing details about a top secret OU design - information that neither the US government or China has been able to access.
The design is no longer top secret. It is a simple design, common to science,explained by science, and proved non-OU.
Do you now understand what's going on in his fantacy world? :-) I bet a million that Lawrence never see, quote or comment this post...


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 29, 2015, 12:46:03 PM
An interesting experiment would be to just let Lawrence be for awhile and see what how his posts evolve.  I predict that if such an exercise were conducted, Lawrence would eventually start spamming other threads.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 30, 2015, 04:19:06 AM
More on Centrifugal force and flying saucer design.


Both USA and China are much more advanced.  But the basic concept or physics remains...


Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 30, 2015, 04:40:54 AM
Here is an oldie but goodie from the past ( 7 years ago) when Lawrence was trying to get us to believe this same stuff.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 30, 2015, 09:05:34 AM
An interesting experiment would be to just let Lawrence be for awhile and see what how his posts evolve.  I predict that if such an exercise were conducted, Lawrence would eventually start spamming other threads.
Abandoning this thread will only cause that the Lawrence-virus will spread to other threads. However, we might ask Stefan Hartman to remove his posts if so should happen. He obviously is wearing blinders and just running his own race, and does not respond to other members. That is pr. definition the same as spamming.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on March 30, 2015, 01:18:33 PM
I think that it is obvious that Lawrence is as you say just spamming.  He has made it quite obvious that there is no information no matter how certain that will cause him to question his fantastical ideas.  He leaves sanity and reason to others whom he he simply evades.  I think that if he starts spamming other threads again then he should be dealt with in those threads.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 30, 2015, 01:36:05 PM
It is interesting to be recalled and noticed that the collision of the ball and cart itself, in this Veljko Milkovic’s demonstration of the pendulum cart, does not dissipate the huge energy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs)

Newton’s cradle is the right proof for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Newtons_cradle_animation_book_2.gif (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Newtons_cradle_animation_book_2.gif)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 30, 2015, 02:40:41 PM
It is interesting to be recalled and noticed that the collision of the ball and cart itself, in this Veljko Milkovic’s demonstration of the pendulum cart, does not dissipate the huge energy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs)

Newton’s cradle is the right proof for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Newtons_cradle_animation_book_2.gif (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Newtons_cradle_animation_book_2.gif)
The sudden impact on the acrylic wall absorbs much of the kinetic energy in the ball,
at the same time as the cart yaws sideways because the ball hits the wall off center.
That makes the rolling ball experiment less efficient than the pendulum experiment.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 31, 2015, 05:09:22 AM
It is interesting to be recalled and noticed that the collision of the ball and cart itself, in this Veljko Milkovic’s demonstration of the pendulum cart, does not dissipate the huge energy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs)

Newton’s cradle is the right proof for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Newtons_cradle_animation_book_2.gif (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Newtons_cradle_animation_book_2.gif)


If we have 4 "boards" as shown in reply 3035, we may be able to have a stable Flying Saucer.  Milkovic has done much good work.  He should have realized that the unbalanced Wheel is a super set of the simple pendulum.


The Unbalanced cylinder is a super set of the Unbalanced Wheel.   The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is no hoax...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 31, 2015, 05:16:22 AM
All this talk of  flywheels reminds me of Eric Lathwaite. Also, a very interesting small square plywood board. It had motors with flywheels mounted north, south east and west, all rotating as one might imagine. The entire board is then forced to rotate and an upward thrust is a generated.

No fancy physics here, just processional forces adding up coherently. But it is an idea which deserves more development.


Is a flying saucer fancy physics?

Should China and USA Military disclose their top secret.  The top secret will wipe out all known warplanes, missiles and star war defenses.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 31, 2015, 01:53:11 PM

If we have 4 "boards" as shown in reply 3035,

3035?
.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on March 31, 2015, 10:55:04 PM
3035?
.
Yes. the post from memoryman. Lawrence is stuck in a flying saucer in a fifth dimension. So he see post 3035 as one of his own...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 02, 2015, 03:22:07 AM
Different ways of flying or lifting off.

1. Rocket style is vertical.  Use external rocket to send payload to space.
2. Normal planes have thrust to weight ratio less than one.  They need to fly at a low angle.
3. The helicopter style is to use aerodynamic lift on the rotor blades.  It cannot fly in space where there is no air.
4.  The flying saucer can go in a spiral path using centrifugal force.  It can use thrust to weight ratio less than 1.  It can also fly in space.  It may appear to be stationary similar to a helicopter.

QMOGENs can lead-out gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic energy.  Such energy can be replenished anywhere in space.

Should such a powerful technology be kept as Top Secret by China and USA?

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on April 02, 2015, 05:42:06 PM
4.  The flying saucer can go in a spiral path using centrifugal force.  It can use thrust to weight ratio less than 1.  It can also fly in space. It may appear to be stationary similar to a helicopter.

Larry T,

I know you either won't read this or will completely ignore it but here goes.

You state that the "flying saucer" is using a spiral path, gaining thrust via centrifugal force from this.
So how can it possibly maintain a stationary aspect without the spiral path ?

There is so much else that can be mentioned (like you knowing US and Chinese secrets - not very good secrets then are they?), but what is the point, since you will not respond to any critical evidence.
 


But ................. The reason that I bring this up is because in your "communication to Motor Manufacturers" (eg. see Reply #2963 on: March 19, 2015, 11:29:25 PM)
you point them in your letters to this thread:
such as - "Details are in http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442672/#msg442672"

A smart potential investor / partner will most likely browse the entire thread (including the newer entries) and not just the hand picked posts you want them to see. This should give them a good understanding of your overall level of credibility.


So at least anyone you have contacted can see the path you are taking now and know not to get involved.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 02, 2015, 06:40:57 PM
Let's talk about easter eggs. How did they populate the world, and did they arrive secretly in a spiral fashion?
Did they arrive in a centrifugal black vortex hole without legs and bunny feets?

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 02, 2015, 09:32:11 PM
Larry T,

I know you either won't read this or will completely ignore it but here goes.

You state that the "flying saucer" is using a spiral path, gaining thrust via centrifugal force from this.
So how can it possibly maintain a stationary aspect without the spiral path ?

There is so much else that can be mentioned (like you knowing US and Chinese secrets - not very good secrets then are they?), but what is the point, since you will not respond to any critical evidence.
 


But ................. The reason that I bring this up is because in your "communication to Motor Manufacturers" (eg. see Reply #2963 on: March 19, 2015, 11:29:25 PM)
you point them in your letters to this thread:
such as - "Details are in http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442672/#msg442672"

A smart potential investor / partner will most likely browse the entire thread (including the newer entries) and not just the hand picked posts you want them to see. This should give them a good understanding of your overall level of credibility.


So at least anyone you have contacted can see the path you are taking now and know not to get involved.

A tight spiral will appear stationary.

My task is to sow seeds.  I do not have the resources to build a Flying Saucer.  But many Governments do.  The USA and Chinese Governments already built them.  Some of their test prototypes mistakenly flew outside the controlled areas and got photographed.

When an object is moving in X direction and if a perpendicular force is applied, the object will turn very tight circles - including flying back at 180 degrees.  The behavior of a flying saucer is easily explained once we apply circular motion concepts...

The Physics is undeniable.  The Centrifugal Force or Circular motion aspects need to be re-evaluated.  The Milkovic 2SO, the Chan Wheel, the Skinner Device, the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier all used such technology to lead-out energy.  This field will also allow flying to outer space and have the energy replenished...  It is better than reversible chemical reactions.

Some seeds will fall on rocks.  Some will be eaten by birds.  Some will bear fruit. 

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 02, 2015, 09:50:15 PM
I now have email from an Asian motor manufacturer interested in the Flying Saucer.

Will this seed bear fruit?

Divine Wine is for all to share.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on April 02, 2015, 11:28:23 PM
I now have email from an Asian motor manufacturer interested in the Flying Saucer.

Sorry, that is less believable than the TsingTao (intended spelling) university multiplier.


As has been mentioned before, you are a likeable guy.
You do not curse in your posts (unlike that Theoria A-pot-to-piss-in).
You are steadfast to your beliefs, and I believe you genuinely want to make a difference.

I think you would be better suited to leave the flying saucer thing out of this thread if you want it to be viewed and taken seriously by potential partners.


Your statement in the previous posts
Quote
The USA and Chinese Governments already built them.  Some of their test prototypes mistakenly flew outside the controlled areas and got photographed.
makes no sense.

A government has the EXTREME technology and is capable of building flying saucers, but fails to pilot them within a controlled area.
USA and China are the 4th and 3rd largest countries in the world, with tens (if not hundreds) of millions of acres of  military land.
And they go and accidentally fly the number one most secret technical advancement ever over a populated area for a photo session.

Come on man. Have some pride in what you are posting.

Pete
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 02, 2015, 11:57:10 PM
With any prototype developments, there are accidents or unforeseen happenings.  When a Flying Saucer can fly to space covering many thousands of miles, an accidental flying over a crowded city is not unimaginable.

I happen to believe in Mr. Lee Cheung Kin - the co-author of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory.  He is a retired missile expert and is well connected in China.  In his words: "What you have posted is kindergarten staff compared with what has been developed in China.  I even know which group that got the Flying Saucer over Nanjing."

Wars between major Nations will be destructive - end of the human race.  It is better to use the powerful technology to benefit the entire human race.

I am not looking for investors nor partners.  I sow seeds...

The Physics is correct (The Earth is round) - no matter what the Nay Sayers post.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on April 03, 2015, 12:27:59 AM
With any prototype developments, there are accidents or unforeseen happenings.
agreed

Quote
When a Flying Saucer can fly to space covering many thousands of miles, an accidental flying over a crowded city is not unimaginable.
That should be "IF" not when

Quote
I happen to believe in Mr. Lee Cheung Kin - the co-author of the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory.  He is a retired missile expert and is well connected in China.  In his words: "What you have posted is kindergarten staff compared with what has been developed in China.  I even know which group that got the Flying Saucer over Nanjing."

I have no problem that you are basing your entire crusade on a belief. But that should be made clear by you.
You present ALL of your beliefs as factual evidence. They are not.

Quote
Wars between major Nations will be destructive - end of the human race.  It is better to use the powerful technology to benefit the entire human race.
It would be better in that case to use technology which can be proven.

Quote
I am not looking for investors nor partners.  I sow seeds...
You are sending letters out to businesses looking for them to spend money on your ideas.
If you chose not to call that a partnership, then so be it.

Quote
The Physics is correct (The Earth is round) - no matter what the Nay Sayers post.
Who ever said the world was not round ?
Apart from religious types who were told (on threat of death) what to think and relied on beliefs, not well established evidence.

The diameter of the earth was very closely estimated well before 0 B.C.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 03, 2015, 02:04:33 AM
A quote from NASA.

China is following and planning to overtake such steps.

Some "private" motor manufacturers in China are taking steps to build QMOGENs.  Will they succeed?  Tsinghua University has succeeded since 1996.  Will it share the secret?  Will the many motor and generator manufacturers figure out the secret on their own?  They have some of the brightest scientists and engineers in the World...

If there are over 50 QMOGENs known already, will they produce a few more.  The Physics of the lead-out energy theory is here for them to read...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 03, 2015, 02:31:20 AM
"If there are over 50 QMOGENs known already" it's that two letter word 'IF' that says it all. I's fun to speculate, but the stark reality is that NO QMOGENs exist.
Why don't you communicate with Mike at: www.backgauges.com/Gen-E-Sys%2011/contact.htm
He'll be happy to hear about lead-out energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 03, 2015, 02:39:43 AM

You present ALL of your beliefs as factual evidence.

1.  The Milkovic 2SO uses centrifugal force to lift the Weight is a fact.
2.  The Chan Wheel with a properly unbalanced wheel is superior to the pendulum is a fact.
3.  The Tsinghua University Unbalanced Cylinder is a super set of Unbalanced Wheels is a fact.
4.  The Skinner device using centrifugal force to lead-out gravitational energy is a fact.
5.  If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy will be lead-out in a similar way is a fact.
6.  The sling (King David) used centrifugal force is a fact.
7.  The Forever Yuen experiments in swinging up, down, left and right on youtube using Centrifugal force is a fact.
8.  The meetings with Liang, Wang, 225HP groups at Tsinghua University is a fact.
9.  Centrifugal force varies as the square of the angular velocity is a fact.
10. QMOGENs use motor to increase the angular or rotational velocity is a fact.

The Physics cannot be wrong. The secondary school students who went to Taipo to see the Chan Wheel can follow it.  The Nay Sayers cannot follow it (or paid to act stupid) ...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on April 03, 2015, 04:56:38 AM
1.  The Milkovic 2SO uses centrifugal force to lift the Weight is a fact.
2.  The Chan Wheel with a properly unbalanced wheel is superior to the pendulum is a fact.
3.  The Tsinghua University Unbalanced Cylinder is a super set of Unbalanced Wheels is a fact.
4.  The Skinner device using centrifugal force to lead-out gravitational energy is a fact.
5.  If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy will be lead-out in a similar way is a fact.
6.  The sling (King David) used centrifugal force is a fact.
7.  The Forever Yuen experiments in swinging up, down, left and right on youtube using Centrifugal force is a fact.
8.  The meetings with Liang, Wang, 225HP groups at Tsinghua University is a fact.
9.  Centrifugal force varies as the square of the angular velocity is a fact.
10. QMOGENs use motor to increase the angular or rotational velocity is a fact.

The Physics cannot be wrong. The secondary school students who went to Taipo to see the Chan Wheel can follow it.  The Nay Sayers cannot follow it (or paid to act stupid) ...

Then I guess since I can easily follow the physics of what you are trying to portray as fact, I must be the other one.
Some dumb paid shill awaiting my check from XYZ petroleum corp.

Sorry, but that is just lame Larry.

Do you really not have a problem offering number 5 as fact
Quote
"5.  If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy will be lead-out in a similar way is a fact."

"Ifs" and "will be"s represent facts to you.

That is not just word semantics, it is blatantly made up.
Anyone reading this post (even your supporters) will have a hard time supporting that.


Maybe you are not such a good guy if you try to pass off something so obviously untrue as a fact.

Good Luck

Pete
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 03, 2015, 07:00:50 AM
Conversation with a teacher who is also a sailor.

Teacher: "We can sail with the wind blowing behind.  We can also sail into the wind with some zigzag path.  Can you use gravitational energy to do something similar?"

What is your answer?

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 03, 2015, 07:05:11 AM

Do you really not have a problem offering number 5 as fact

5.  If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy will be lead-out in a similar way is a fact.

Pete

Pete,

You missed the magnetic horizontal pendulum experiment.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on April 03, 2015, 03:19:25 PM
Conversation with a teacher who is also a sailor.

Teacher: "We can sail with the wind blowing behind.  We can also sail into the wind with some zigzag path.  Can you use gravitational energy to do something similar?"

What is your answer?

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038

The way a sail produces "lift" can be easily explained by conventional physics.
Bernoulli and/or Newtonian principles specifically.

But this "lift' alone cannot produce forward motion. You also need to understand what is under the boat resisting the urge for sideways slip.

A combination of fixed mast point (leading edge), a curved/cambered sail and keel/centreboard are all part of the equation.

To simply point out that "we can sail into the wind" as if that is some kind of unexpected thing, highlights the fact that your "teacher" who is also a sailor, merely understands how to helm a sail boat, and not how the sail works.
And he is probably a "music therapy" or "dance" teacher judging by the last part of his question.

It always amuses me (as an aerospace engineer and an occasional sailor BTW), when someone quotes a pilot as some kind of authority on how any component of a plane works. Are taxi drivers experts on the IC engine because they steer the cab?


The bottom line is that any system relying on gravitational energy ::) to produce an unexpected result, will not work because the critical component of being able to vector the force in a desired direction (that which the keel of the boat does) simply does not and physically cannot exist.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 03, 2015, 03:58:15 PM
The way a sail produces "lift" can be easily explained by conventional physics.
Bernoulli and/or Newtonian principles specifically.

But this "lift' alone cannot produce forward motion. You also need to understand what is under the boat resisting the urge for sideways slip.

A combination of fixed mast point (leading edge), a curved/cambered sail and keel/centreboard are all part of the equation.

To simply point out that "we can sail into the wind" as if that is some kind of unexpected thing, highlights the fact that your "teacher" who is also a sailor, merely understands how to helm a sail boat, and not how the sail works.
And he is probably a "music therapy" or "dance" teacher judging by the last part of his question.

It always amuses me (as an aerospace engineer and an occasional sailor BTW), when someone quotes a pilot as some kind of authority on how any component of a plane works. Are taxi drivers experts on the IC engine because they steer the cab?


The bottom line is that any system relying on gravitational energy ::) to produce an unexpected result, will not work because the critical component of being able to vector the force in a desired direction (that which the keel of the boat does) simply does not and physically cannot exist.

4 boards as shown in 3065 (not 3035) will do it...  Thanks for the vectoring of forces.  You are a real engineer...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on April 03, 2015, 04:52:17 PM
4 boards as shown in 3065 (not 3035) will do it...  Thanks for the vectoring of forces.  You are a real engineer...

No Probs, use as you see fit.

But please do me a favor.
Do Not communicate the following to anyone:

_______________________________________________________________
Conversation with (or letter from) an Aerospace Engineer.

Engineer: "Adding 4 planks to a wobbly cylinder will lead-out amazing amounts of energy to your contraption.
The right kind of wood can also do the same for magnetic or electromagnetic energy."

Tseung: "But some people on the Internet still cannot understand it."

Engineer: "Don't worry about them, They are paid shills"


Divine Wine happy hour coming soon.

Larry T
_______________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 03, 2015, 06:55:25 PM
I think the basic theory of the Flying Saucer is complete.  The key elements are:

1.  A rotating magnet can travel in a circular path at high speed.
2.  This circular path can be along the circumference of the vessel.
3.  A magnetic force can be applied to provide the centripetal or centrifugal force to attract the magnet so that the magnet still travels in the circular path but not against the circumference or the wall of the vessel.
4.  The circular velocity can be increased by electromagnetic means.
5.  If the magnetic attraction force is suddenly cut, the magnet will tend to fly away tangentially.
6.  This tangential force can be harnessed to provide force of motion for the vessel.
7.  No external air is needed for the flying action. No material needs to be ejected from the vessel.
8.  More than one board containing the above 7 points can be used to provide controlled motion.
9.  The direction of the centrifugal force can be up, down, left or right.  It can be against gravity to provide lift.
10. The force can be less than the weight (thrust to weight ratio can be less than 1).
11. The classic motion of a flying saucer can be explained by such a vessel.  The classic motion includes stationary, very tight turns, appear to fly backwards at 180 degrees without deceleration and moving in curved paths.
12. The energy source can be lead-out gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic energies.  Such energies can be replenished in space.  There is no need to carry large amount of chemical fuel inside the vessel.

Both China and USA know the basic technology.  Some of the prototypes might have accidentally flew outside the controlled areas and got photographed. This gives rise to the hundreds of UFO sightings.  (Some UFOs may be from other civilizations.)

Circular motion technology can lead-out gravitational energy as demonstrated in the Milkovic 2SO, the Chan Wheel, the Skinner device, the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGENs.  The Physics has been described in this thread.

Divine Wine is for all to share.  Governments are encouraged to think beyond military applications and use such a powerful technology to benefit the human race.

Sow seeds...  Some will fall on rocks.  Some will be eaten by birds.  Some will bear fruit...

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 03, 2015, 07:01:23 PM
Lawrence, me thinks that you have been sipping your 'divine wine' too much and are intoxicated; that could explain your rambling about non-existing centrifugal forces, lead-out energy etc.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 03, 2015, 11:15:35 PM
It is Easter Time. What is the Divine Purpose in my knowing the secrets of infinite lead-energy and Flying Saucer?

The development of the World was once based on:

1.  The personal ambition of Kings and Emperors.  They wanted wealth and power for themselves and their off-springs.

2.  Then it was Nationalism.  Some Nations justified conquests and colonialism when it had the technological edge.  They claimed that they did it for the Nation.

3.  China learned - with the one child policy that it can provide a better standard of living for its citizens if the number of citizens is controlled.  Japan is deliberately following the same policy - allow its population to get old and decline.  With a declining population, there is no need to conquer.  Hong Kong and Singapore are densely populated but their citizens are enjoying high standards of living.

With lead-out energy and flying saucer, every human being on Earth can enjoy a much higher standard of living without "robbing" or bringing suffering to others. War and Conquest will be meaningless.  Knowledge is now easily shared.  Can the World Population be controlled?  Can everyone enjoy a high standard of living?  Will Nationalism fade away?  Will religious dogma change into tolerance and understanding?

Will China and USA disclose the QMOGEN and Flying Saucer technology to benefit the World?  Will the spread of the technology here on the Internet force the Leaders to think again?  Will the Leaders and Citizens turn away from narrow Nationalism?

Is that the purpose of the Divine Wine?

Is that the reason why an old, retired man who suffered from two strokes  could discover lead-out energy and the secrets of the Flying Saucer???

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 04, 2015, 12:15:56 AM
" that the reason why an old, retired man who suffered from two strokes  could discover lead-out energy and the secrets of the Flying Saucer???" and who is that man? Inebriated on divine wine?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 04, 2015, 01:16:24 PM
" that the reason why an old, retired man who suffered from two strokes  could discover lead-out energy and the secrets of the Flying Saucer???" and who is that man? Inebriated on divine wine?
.
What is the purpose of this message, memoryman?


Are you trying to pull down Lawrence or promote your ego?


Do you imagine that you are succeeding in either?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 04, 2015, 04:44:01 PM
Paul-R, do you know for a fact that Lawrence isn't wasting our time with theories that he himself does not believe in? At first I thought that he was merely wrong, then I thought that he was deluded,but now I lean toward this being an ego-trip by him. There is a long list of people who like to pull tricks, sometimes for long periods.
I answer him with the same 'riddles' as he uses.
Enjoy or ignore.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 04, 2015, 09:55:44 PM
Paul-R, do you know for a fact that Lawrence isn't wasting our time with theories that he himself does not believe in? At first I thought that he was merely wrong, then I thought that he was deluded,but now I lean toward this being an ego-trip by him. There is a long list of people who like to pull tricks, sometimes for long periods.
I answer him with the same 'riddles' as he uses.
Enjoy or ignore.
You didn't answer the questions.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 10:19:54 PM
You didn't answer the questions.

Paul:

With all due respect, your questions to memoryman already presupposes that he wants to take Lawrence down, which, in my opinion, is not the case.  He is simply pointing out the obvious.  If you have another opinion, that's fine.  Just don't try to hang memoryman for his.

For the record, I too agree with memoryman's observations.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 04, 2015, 10:54:40 PM
Paul:

With all due respect, your questions to memoryman already presupposes that he wants to take Lawrence down, which, in my opinion, is not the case.  He is simply pointing out the obvious.  If you have another opinion, that's fine.  Just don't try to hang memoryman for his.

For the record, I too agree with memoryman's observations.

Bill

I think he was gratuitously insulting and offensive to no purpose other than self gratification.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 04, 2015, 11:46:51 PM
Paul, you are entitled to whatever opinion you have; so is everybody else.
Nobody is obligated to answer questions either, including Lawrence. If you don't think that I answered your question(s), so be it.
I can live with that.
Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 11:48:07 PM
I think he was gratuitously insulting and offensive to no purpose other than self gratification.

Well, the same could be said of me when I posted that flying saucer pic from a long time ago from Lawrence in another thread.  If left alone, Lawrence will take any other device and try to demonstrate how that proves his theory.  Like what he said about the Qmogen, which has never been proven to work by anyone.  He claims that there are over 50 examples of the qmogen which proves his theory is correct.  So, to me, someone has to point out that this is not true.  Deep down, I think Lawrence already knows this.

Now, we have the flying saucer theory again, which is why I posted that old picture from like 7 years ago.  This shows that nothing has changed.

So, you obviously are entitled to your opinion, as am I and also memoryman.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 05, 2015, 12:29:32 AM
Replenishing gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic energy for the Flying Saucer.
.
We can use large area of solar cells to capture light (electromagnetic wave).

A war plane can dive down to get high speed to gain height again.

What is the equivalent for the Flying Saucer?

Lead-out energy can be compared with a reversible chemical reaction.  The electron clouds or electron motions are easily reversible... 


A good understanding of this mechanism will help to design the lead-out energy machines or QMOGENs on Earth.  I believe the Tsinghua University Professors and Research Students who gave me the picture of the Energy Multiplier in 2006.  That QMOGEN was working since 1996.  The ignorant (or paid debunkers) can post anything.

The knowledge that it works (and possibly over 50 others) will give confidence to the new comers in this field.  The Physics of the Lead-out Energy and Flying Saucer is correct from the very beginning. I looked at the Milkovic 2SO but could not see over 10 years ago.  I only saw it as an OU device and improved it with the Chan Wheel a few months ago.

I know a few new comers - the Chinese Motor and Generator Manufacturers.  The Nay Sayers and paid debunkers will try to confuse them. I shall continue to encourage them to taste the Divine Wine.

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2015, 12:40:41 AM
Replenishing gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic energy for the Flying Saucer.
.
A war plane can dive down to get high speed to gain height again.



Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038 3092

Yes, but, it is only using the potential energy that was stored up from the climb.  Ignoring the input from the engine, a dive in a plane, minus the drag from the air, will never be able to climb back up as high as the initial dive began. You do know this right?

A diving plane does not a flying saucer make.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 05, 2015, 12:58:24 AM
Yes, but, it is only using the potential energy that was stored up from the climb.  Ignoring the input from the engine, a dive in a plane, minus the drag from the air, will never be able to climb back up as high as the initial dive began. You do know this right?

A diving plane does not a flying saucer make.

Bill

A glider can take energy from the environment and soar higher.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2015, 03:34:20 AM
A glider can take energy from the environment and soar higher.

Now that is true, due to its being able to take advantage of the thermals...so..in effect, it is solar powered.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on April 05, 2015, 05:49:48 AM
A war plane can dive down to get high speed to gain height again.

Now admittedly Larry, I have never used my Aero Engineering background to work on War Planes.
But everything that I know through REAL experience and experimentation in the Aeronautical Field can be applied to both Commercial and Military flight.

If you would like to know anything about aeronautics, please ask.
You do understand that flying saucers must at some point fly in an atmosphere,
and also in environments subject to a celestial body's gravitational field right ?

Well, you are in luck. That is my primary area of expertise.

So ask away. The knowledge I have in this field can mostly only be gained by many years of hands on experience.
There is no guesswork involved in aircraft development. So you are not going to get answers based only on "book learnin".

This could be a very valuable resource to you.

But I suspect you won't. And the reason will be that you do not want to hear anything that goes contrary to your ideas.
This is evidenced by the quote below.

Quote
.......The ignorant (or paid debunkers) can post anything.


Having communicated with you in this thread a few times now, I am curious to ask.
Have you formed an opinion of which one I am ?
Ignorant          or         paid debunker.


Or is this just a general insult at everyone.
Thus permitting replies such as the one from MemoryMan

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 05, 2015, 07:46:35 AM
Now admittedly Larry, I have never used my Aero Engineering background to work on War Planes.
But everything that I know through REAL experience and experimentation in the Aeronautical Field can be applied to both Commercial and Military flight.

If you would like to know anything about aeronautics, please ask.
You do understand that flying saucers must at some point fly in an atmosphere,
and also in environments subject to a celestial body's gravitational field right ?

Well, you are in luck. That is my primary area of expertise.

So ask away. The knowledge I have in this field can mostly only be gained by many years of hands on experience.
There is no guesswork involved in aircraft development. So you are not going to get answers based only on "book learnin".

This could be a very valuable resource to you.

But I suspect you won't. And the reason will be that you do not want to hear anything that goes contrary to your ideas.
This is evidenced by the quote below.


Having communicated with you in this thread a few times now, I am curious to ask.
Have you formed an opinion of which one I am ?
Ignorant          or         paid debunker.


Or is this just a general insult at everyone.
Thus permitting replies such as the one from MemoryMan

Regards

Pete

Great.  You may be one of the first scientists on this thread to answer the following:

Bernoulli's Principle states that the pressure exerted on the side direction of a moving fluid will be less.  This is the normal answer given to why airplanes fly. 

My question is:  Does Pressure have direction?  Is Pressure a scalar or a vector quantity?

Please think very carefully before you answer.  This was the question that got my aerodynamics professor very upset 50 years ago.

I am sure we can have intelligent and scientific discussions related to flying saucers with and without atmosphere; on Earth and in outer space.

Lawrence
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 05, 2015, 09:31:19 AM
The Easter and Birthday Celebration in the place where I presented Lead-out Energy and Flying Saucer Technology.

May be the participants are more polite - I got a good reception.  One comment - "I now understand the workings of a Flying Saucer.  The UFO sightings and photos are real.  If you can explain it, the engineers in China and USA can build it."

I am sure that is true with the QMOGENs.

The next presentation will be in Taipo on April 12 (Sunday).  We shall discuss QMOGEN and Flying Saucer again in the monthly meeting.  Over 100 people would have listened to my presentation in Hong Kong.  How many seeds will germinate and bear fruit?

Lawrence
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 05, 2015, 12:16:16 PM
From google, a search on electric motor manufacturers showed 944 entries.
http://www.thomasnet.com/products/electric-motors-52412608-1.html

The Chinese manufacturers already had a head start.  For world benefit, it will be a good idea to let the other manufacturers know about QMOGEN, Flying Saucer and this thread.  Sow seeds.

Lawrence
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 05, 2015, 04:15:00 PM
Great.  You may be one of the first scientists on this thread to answer the following:

Bernoulli's Principle states that the pressure exerted on the side direction of a moving fluid will be less.  This is the normal answer given to why airplanes fly. 

My question is:  Does Pressure have direction?  Is Pressure a scalar or a vector quantity?

Scalar.

Bernouille states that the  energy at any section in the flow will be the same, and so, if the velocity goes up - due to the longer, curved upper surface of the wing, the pressure goes down. This reduction in pressure causes an upward suction on the top of the wings - aka lift.

This is principally as manifested in David Beckham's famous goal scored from the corner with a corner kick - then called the Magnus Effect - possibly during the World Cup - was it versus Ecuador? (I suspect that goalie must still be getting nightmares).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 05, 2015, 10:23:12 PM
Scalar.

Bernouille states that the  energy at any section in the flow will be the same, and so, if the velocity goes up - due to the longer, curved upper surface of the wing, the pressure goes down. This reduction in pressure causes an upward suction on the top of the wings - aka lift.

This is principally as manifested in David Beckham's famous goal scored from the corner with a corner kick - then called the Magnus Effect - possibly during the World Cup - was it versus Ecuador? (I suspect that goalie must still be getting nightmares).

Let us wait for PIH123 - a real professional in aerodynamics.  In the Internet, a layman and an expert can post.  Opinions are expected to differ.  The reader has to use his own judgment.

My judgment is that Tsinghua University QMOGEN is not a hoax and has been running since 1996.
  The theory of lead-out energy is correct.  It explains the energy source of the device.  A good number of the over 50 QMOGENs compiled by Sterling Allan are not hoaxes.

It is also my judgment that both China and USA have Flying Saucers in development.  Some sightings and photos of UFOs are the results.

Paul-R, you are entitled to your opinion.  But think about the pressure facing the wind and the pressure perpendicular to the direction of the wind?  Is pressure really a scalar quantity?

My job is to sow seeds.  Let some readers think - can QMOGENs be real?  Can lead-out energy theory be correct?  Are Chinese and USA military developing Flying Saucers if the scientific explanation is laid out here?

Lawrence
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 06, 2015, 09:07:12 AM
@PIH123,

You may not have seen the posts in another thread many years ago.  The subject of whether something needs to be ejected from a Flying Saucer to provide thrust was discussed.

The concept is repeated here for your comments.

Lawrence
(see reply 3038 3092)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 06, 2015, 01:38:09 PM

Paul-R, you are entitled to your opinion.  But think about the pressure facing the wind and the pressure perpendicular to the direction of the wind?  Is pressure really a scalar quantity?

Its not an opinion. It is part of the basic the physics of aerodynamics.

"pressure facing the wind?" You are confusing pressure which is very difficult to sense with the force of the moving air.

A pumped up bicycle tyre has pressure. But there is no difference between the pressure at the front to the pressure at the back of the wheel. Open and valve and let the air out and then the moving  air creates a force.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 06, 2015, 03:15:45 PM
So, Lawrence, in 9 years has this concept been proven? Has it been commercialised? You lack a basic understanding of physics, hence no results.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 07, 2015, 12:38:19 AM
Its not an opinion. It is part of the basic the physics of aerodynamics.

"pressure facing the wind?" You are confusing pressure which is very difficult to sense with the force of the moving air.

A pumped up bicycle tyre has pressure. But there is no difference between the pressure at the front to the pressure at the back of the wheel. Open and valve and let the air out and then the moving  air creates a force.

Let us wait for PIH123.  Pressure in a non-moving environment will be the same in all directions.  But in motion...  Your understanding of aerodynamics will be challenged.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 07, 2015, 01:14:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr67j71NSsQ&list=PLvAzms-COt4ZkheBJZ24-p2O8rPef1DHK

The above is a collection of QMOGEN demonstrations.

The lead-out energy explains the source of energy.  The Tsinghua University QMOGEN has been in operation since 1996.

When will a commercial QMOGEN be available?  How many will be bought out by the existing interests? 

A QMOGEN on a Flying Saucer...
  The Nanjing UFO on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-_OH6nu7V8

Lawrence
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 07, 2015, 11:54:36 AM
Your understanding of aerodynamics will be challenged.
My professor will be most irritated.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 07, 2015, 01:50:55 PM
My professor will be most irritated.
Tell him the posts related to Flying Saucers.  Watch his reaction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 07, 2015, 07:49:01 PM
From the collection of QMOGENs, some did not use flywheels or unbalanced wheels at all.  They do not lead-out gravitational energy.  Can they lead-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy directly?

I believe the answer is YES.  Let me first list the possible situations that can lead-out gravitational energy.
1.  Horizontally push a pendulum.  The tension of the string will increase.  This increased tension will bring-in or lead-out gravitational energy.
2.  The Milkovic 2SO effect.  The Centrifugal Force will be highest when the bob is at the lowest point.  This plus the weight on the RHS will produce a higher clockwise moment and raise the Weight W1 on the LHS.  Gravitational energy is brought-in.  The Chan Wheel is the improvement.
3.  The athlete on a trampoline will exert the jumping force at the right time.  The re-bouncing force plus the jumping force will send the athlete up higher with each successive jump.  Some gravitational energy is brought-in to provide the greater height.
4.  A rotating unbalanced wheel at the end of a spring.  There will be vertical oscillation of the spring.  If the period of rotation matches that of the spring, the successive pulls will reinforce and bring-in gravitational energy.
5.  An unbalanced cylinder is effectively a super set of unbalanced wheels.  It can lead-out more gravitational energy.

If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic or electromagnetic energy must be able to be lead-out in a similar fashion.  This can be proven with the horizontal magnetic pendulum.

Thus, it is likely magnetic or electromagnetic energy can be lead-out in an oscillation system or rotating system.  Almost all electric motors or generators have rotations.  Leading-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy is theoretically possible.

My recommendation is - do the simplified Tsinghua University QMOGEN first and confirm that the unbalanced cylinder can lead-out gravitational energy.  Add this unbalanced cylinder to almost all rotating systems and bring-in the gravitational energy.

At the same time, find a pair of motor and generator that is commercially available and produce a QMOGEN for all to replicate.  This is being done by the Chinese (and other?) power motor manufacturers.  They already produce a series of motors and generators.

The top secret of China and USA on Flying Saucers and QMOGENs are out.  The secrets of the 188HP Laing Car and the 225HP Pulse Motor are unlikely to be kept for long.

Sterling Allan may be in jail but he can be sure that his effort in compiling QMOGENs is not wasted.

Divine Wine is for all to share...

Lawrence
see reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 07, 2015, 08:41:27 PM
Let us wait for PIH123 - a real professional in aerodynamics.  In the Internet, a layman and an expert can post.  Opinions are expected to differ.  The reader has to use his own judgment.
.Opinions do not count. Judgements do not count. Facts do count.

Quote
My judgment is that Tsinghua University QMOGEN is not a hoax and has been running since 1996.  The theory of lead-out energy is correct.  It explains the energy source of the device.  A good number of the over 50 QMOGENs compiled by Sterling Allan are not hoaxes.
You have failed showing us ONE working device. Tsinghua University does not have any QMOGEN - Go to their website and check for yourself. They have educational approaches that has something to do with energy, but not lead-out energy.

Quote
It is also my judgment that both China and USA have Flying Saucers in development.  Some sightings and photos of UFOs are the results.
You have failed in showing us ONE flying saucer that perform outside the laws of physics. Seeing or recording events that is not easy to explain does not mean it is out of this world of science and physical laws. By not being exactly able to explain the lights and fast moving objects does not mean it is something extraordinary about them. Most of them are proved as hoax or misunderstandings, handheld camcorders for example makes it easy to believe a recorded object changes directions faster than physics can predict.



Quote
My job is to sow seeds.  Let some readers think - can QMOGENs be real?  Can lead-out energy theory be correct?  Are Chinese and USA military developing Flying Saucers if the scientific explanation is laid out here?
So go on and sow som seeds that will grow into real products. We cannot relay on seeds that produce imaginary results - it does not satisfy our hunger.


1. Fill your saucers with gruel, and satisfy your hunger.
2. Harvest the vast amounts of energysources that already exist.
3. The first two will make you a more happy person :-)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 07, 2015, 11:47:58 PM
New replica & public demonstration of the two-stage oscillator by Peter Salocher

Kraftverstärker und Solarkocher
Peter Salocher zeigt einen vollkommen mechanischen Kraftverstärker und eine energiesparende Solarkochkiste. Ausführliche Selbstbauanleitung auf http://WasserStattSprit.info (http://WasserStattSprit.info)

https://youtu.be/fEA6UPm_RZQ?t=1m4s (https://youtu.be/fEA6UPm_RZQ?t=1m4s)

(English & German subtitles available)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 08, 2015, 12:13:42 AM
I do not rely on reading information from the Tsinghua University Website.

Lee, Wang and I were there - giving lectures and had in depth discussions with the Professors and Research Students.  We got the picture of the QMOGEN.  At that time, Tsinghua University did not have the lead-out energy theory to explain the energy source...

I looked at the Milkovic 2SO 10 years ago but did not see.  With Divine Blessing, I saw that it was OU a few months back.  The whole picture came together.  The Chess game is now won.  Every major puzzle has been solved.

It was like the Internet 4 decades ago.  I still remember the violent arguments that Computers were too expensive for everyone to own; telephone lines were too slow and no one would build such infrastructures; there would not be enough security protection for data; it would require experts to use; etc...

Now, I predict the following:

1. Within this century, every family will own one or more Flying Saucers.  No runway is needed but there will be systems and infrastructures to ensure the smooth running of millions of Flying Saucers.  Many automatic guidance systems will be in place.
2. The Flying Saucers will use lead-out energy that are non-polluting, available everywhere including outer space.
3.  Motor cars and airplanes will be obsolete and will only be found in museums.
4.  The energy supply system will be decentralized.  The grid will no longer exist.
5.  Two important starting players will be China and USA.  Others will catch up quickly. Some powerful existing interests will fight to prevent its happening. India is a likely candidate to surge ahead bypassing such in-fighting.
6.  Lead-out, bring-in or some other more fancy name will be taught at all Universities and Schools.  This thread and the earlier ones will be "researched" by historians.

I may not be able to ride on a Flying Saucer but my two grand daughters will use them as every day transport.

Divine wine flows...

Lawrence
see 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 08, 2015, 12:32:04 AM
New replica & public demonstration of the two-stage oscillator by Peter Salocher

Kraftverstärker und Solarkocher
Peter Salocher zeigt einen vollkommen mechanischen Kraftverstärker und eine energiesparende Solarkochkiste. Ausführliche Selbstbauanleitung auf http://WasserStattSprit.info (http://WasserStattSprit.info)

https://youtu.be/fEA6UPm_RZQ?t=1m4s (https://youtu.be/fEA6UPm_RZQ?t=1m4s)

(English & German subtitles available)

When will they replace the pendulum with the properly unbalanced wheel or cylinder?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 08, 2015, 01:21:22 AM
Will the USA patent be a road block to QMOGEN development?

Has the time limit for International patent expired?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 08, 2015, 01:49:15 AM
The Real McQueen machine!

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on April 08, 2015, 02:52:43 AM
Why don't you contact Jesse McQueen yourself?  You can ask him why he's still buying all his electricity from the local grid.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Rigel4 on April 08, 2015, 07:22:59 PM

Sterling Allan may be in jail but he can be sure that his effort in compiling QMOGENs is not wasted.

 Why do you say he is in jail? What information leads you to this conclusion? Is this new?
I ask because he does not seem in jail and is still posting. In fact that story seemed to drop off completely.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 09, 2015, 07:48:36 AM
I do not rely on reading information from the Tsinghua University Website.

..........  We got the picture of the QMOGEN.  At that time, Tsinghua University did not have the lead-out energy theory to explain the energy source...
Is a picture and promising words all the proof you got when you visited them? I find that very little credible.
..........

Quote
Now, I predict the following:

1. Within this century, every family will own one or more Flying Saucers.  No runway is needed but there will be systems and infrastructures to ensure the smooth running of millions of Flying Saucers.  Many automatic guidance systems will be in place.
2. The Flying Saucers will use lead-out energy that are non-polluting, available everywhere including outer space.
3.  Motor cars and airplanes will be obsolete and will only be found in museums.
4.  The energy supply system will be decentralized.  The grid will no longer exist.
5.  Two important starting players will be China and USA.  Others will catch up quickly. Some powerful existing interests will fight to prevent its happening. India is a likely candidate to surge ahead bypassing such in-fighting.
6.  Lead-out, bring-in or some other more fancy name will be taught at all Universities and Schools.  This thread and the earlier ones will be "researched" by historians.
I think too that the future will change from what it is today, but I would more likely predict that the technology will be less complex and more reilable than what I associate with flying saucers  :)


Quote
I may not be able to ride on a Flying Saucer but my two grand daughters will use them as every day transport.
I wonder how the driving licence would look like ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 10, 2015, 01:57:23 AM
Is a picture and promising words all the proof you got when you visited them? I find that very little credible.
..........
I think too that the future will change from what it is today, but I would more likely predict that the technology will be less complex and more reilable than what I associate with flying saucers  :)

I wonder how the driving licence would look like ;D

They would have to invent a new moving violation:  HWI

Hovering while intoxicated.

Or, you might get a ticket for going the speed of light in a 25mph zone.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 10, 2015, 02:55:25 AM
The logical step for a Nation is to set up a "Military Confidential" zone similar to Area 51 or 52.  Experiment on QMOGENs and Flying Saucers.  Research both the technology and infrastructure.

Are USA and China doing it already?  Which other Nations are following?

My prediction is that a QMOGEN will emerge from an unexpected source and confirmed beyond any shadow of doubt.  Then Nations will pour in resources.  USA and China will have little choice but disclose the top secrets.

A democratic system where every funding project must be debated openly may not be the ideal place to develop new technology.  It has to wait after the technology is "proven beyond any shadow of doubt".  One solution is to do the research under a different name.  Call it new technology development...

This thread will be thoroughly studied.  The paid debunkers will continue to try to discredit the Inventors.  They will continue to say that the Physics is wrong.  But some seeds will fall on fertile soil.

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 10, 2015, 11:31:23 AM
When every family has a Flying Saucer with inexhaustible energy, what kind of a society will it be?

Travelling to any part of the Earth is easy.  Travelling to other planets are possible.

The new paradigm is coming. How would the average person react?

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 10, 2015, 05:08:18 PM
No, let's MEAN THIS! We can make Area 2000! Area 51, 52 or 53 are for wimps. I have a shovel and strong will.
Then, when the 4 million square mile of land is digged out and leveled perfectly, we can start to make buildings. I have nails, and a couple of 2 by 4's.
No problem. I will be finished when the sun is running emty on hydrogen - at the right time we REALLY need free energy from imbalanced wheels...


Vidar

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 10, 2015, 05:28:51 PM
Could we get free energy from unbalanced minds? I see lots of that around...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 10, 2015, 06:27:30 PM
Could we get free energy from unbalanced minds? I see lots of that around...
Yes. Imaginary free energy - but it will not leave the brain, so there is a chance the brain at some point will boil from its own free energy heat... :o

HEY - WAIT! 210 pages and STILL no proof of overunity!  ;D

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 12, 2015, 12:20:11 AM
An experimental result from Hong Kong.

Tseung: "Have you started experiments of QMOGENs yet?"

Organization X: "We put an Unbalanced Bicycle Wheel similar to your Chan Wheel on the same shaft as our motor and measured the resultant torque.  Measurements confirmed that much higher torque was generated."

Tseung: "That was the Chalkalis Experiment.  Have you linked it to the generator yet?"

Organization X: "That will be the next step.  Much more work is needed.  A dedicated team will study your lead-out energy theory and Flying Saucer.  We shall do it properly with the necessary resources."

Tseung: "Do you mind sharing the results openly?"

Organization X: "That will be one possible option.  It depends on the result and how much resource we actually put in.  I can confirm that a much higher resultant torque is produced at this time."

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2015, 12:51:56 AM
An experimental result from Hong Kong.

Tseung: "Have you started experiments of QMOGENs yet?"

Organization X: "We put an Unbalanced Bicycle Wheel similar to your Chan Wheel on the same shaft as our motor and measured the resultant torque.  Not only was there no additional torque, the shaft broke and now we have to repair it."

Organization X: Measurements confirmed that this is a bunch of crap!."


Quote

Tseung: "That was the Chalkalis Experiment.  Have you linked it to the generator yet?"


Organization X: " Are you kidding me?  We still have to repair our broken shaft."

Quote

Tseung: "Do you mind sharing the results openly?"


Organization X: "No, we don't mind.  I already told you that our machine broke and it will cost us a lot of money to repair.  Are you going to pay for the damage?"

Quote
Lawrence
reply 3038 3092

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 12, 2015, 02:36:51 AM
Did Lawrence just invent a torque multiplier?
They give Nobel prizes for things like that, don't they?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 12, 2015, 02:49:39 AM
An experimental result from Hong Kong.

Tseung: "Have you started experiments of QMOGENs yet?"

Organization X: "We put an Unbalanced Bicycle Wheel similar to your Chan Wheel on the same shaft as our motor and measured the resultant torque.  Measurements confirmed that much higher torque was generated."

Tseung: "That was the Chalkalis Experiment.  Have you linked it to the generator yet?"

Organization X: "That will be the next step.  Much more work is needed.  A dedicated team will study your lead-out energy theory and Flying Saucer.  We shall do it properly with the necessary resources."

Tseung: "Do you mind sharing the results openly?"

Organization X: "That will be one possible option.  It depends on the result and how much resource we actually put in.  I can confirm that a much higher resultant torque is produced at this time."

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092
HAHAHA, that was a good one  ;D ! Words, words, words, and some people are just ignorant enough to get fooled. They will NEVER share the results with nobody - it is too embarrassing  ;D ;D

Why can't you just look at my video with the imbalanced wheel, and see for yourself that these people does not have a single clue of what they're doing? THERE IS NO OVERUNITY IN IMBALANCE - IT IS JUST IMBALANCE!!! GOT IT? :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc)

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 12, 2015, 03:46:51 AM
The rotation of the Unbalanced Wheel effectively produced a vertical oscillation.  The effective force on the shaft is higher when the Unbalanced Weight is moving down and lower when the Unbalanced Weight is moving up.  This is due to the difference in centrifugal force.

If a flywheel is used, some energy will be stored.  The increased torque and stored energy will rotate a generator with more power.  The additional lead-out gravitational energy acts in the same way as the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.

This experiment can be repeated worldwide.  The cost of an old bicycle wheel in China is "scrap".  Any recycling center will have dozens.

The debunkers will not (or paid not to) do such an experiment.  They can jeer and smear.  Was Jesus jeered and smeared at before he was crucified?

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2015, 03:56:55 AM


The debunkers will not (or paid not to) do such an experiment.  They can jeer and smear. 
Lawrence
reply 3038 3092

Vidar did just such an experiment and has reposted his link above.  (See reply 3139)

Did you not watch his video?  He did exactly what you have proposed and showed that it does not work.

Bill

PS  I'll make it easy for you.  Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 12, 2015, 06:07:17 AM
The rotation of the Unbalanced Wheel effectively produced a vertical oscillation.  The effective force on the shaft is higher when the Unbalanced Weight is moving down and lower when the Unbalanced Weight is moving up.  This is due to the difference in centrifugal force.

If a flywheel is used, some energy will be stored.  The increased torque and stored energy will rotate a generator with more power.  The additional lead-out gravitational energy acts in the same way as the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.

This experiment can be repeated worldwide.  The cost of an old bicycle wheel in China is "scrap".  Any recycling center will have dozens.

The debunkers will not (or paid not to) do such an experiment.  They can jeer and smear.  Was Jesus jeered and smeared at before he was crucified?

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092
There are no experiments that back your claims.  There are many such as Vidar's that refute your claims.  You have reduced yourself to the role of a lying troll.  Dishonest posts lead-out ridicule and contempt.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 12, 2015, 07:32:51 AM
HAHAHA, that was a good one  ;D ! Words, words, words, and some people are just ignorant enough to get fooled. They will NEVER share the results with nobody - it is too embarrassing  ;D ;D

Why can't you just look at my video with the imbalanced wheel, and see for yourself that these people does not have a single clue of what they're doing? THERE IS NO OVERUNITY IN IMBALANCE - IT IS JUST IMBALANCE!!! GOT IT? :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc)

Vidar

Your experiment never measured torque.  Your shaky set up wasted much energy.  Please do proper scientific experiments.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2015, 07:38:42 AM
Your experiment never measured torque.  Your shaky set up wasted much energy.  Please do proper scientific experiments.

That is exactly what we have been saying to you.  It is shaky because it is unbalanced.  Yes, it does waste a lot of energy and, this is the point.  We have been telling you this for a while now.  You can not have a smooth unbalanced rotor...it shakes...wastes energy...Bingo.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 12, 2015, 10:03:15 AM
Your experiment never measured torque.  Your shaky set up wasted much energy.  Please do proper scientific experiments.
This is exactly what we have been trying to tell YOU all the time. Imbalanced wheels WILL ofcourse shake and waste energy.
If it was fixed to a very rigid base, and did not shake, the wheel would spin just like any other wheel. I can demonstrate that too if you like, and see if a non shaking imbalanced wheel accelerate instead of slowing down - if it's neccessary to feed you with a teaspoon.


It is not neccessary to measure torque when you and me already knows there is no over unity or lead-out energy involved.
As you also know well, is that torque alone does not tell us anything about the energy output or input. You need to multiply torque with angular velocity to find the energy output.
You can have great torque, but no angular velocity - in that case no energy is spent or delivered.
You can have great angular velocity, but no torque - in that case no energy is spent or delivered.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 12, 2015, 10:27:08 AM


It is not neccessary to measure torque when you and me already knows there is no over unity or lead-out energy involved.


As you also know well, is that torque alone does not tell us anything about the energy output or input. You need to multiply torque with angular velocity to find the energy output.
You can have great torque, but no angular velocity - in that case no energy is spent or delivered.
You can have great angular velocity, but no torque - in that case no energy is spent or delivered.


Vidar

It is necessary to measure torque if there is lead-out energy involved.

Let Organization X and over 60 others with working QMOGENs do proper scientific experiments - including the measurement of torque.

Lawrence
rely 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 12, 2015, 10:44:46 AM
It is necessary to measure torque if there is lead-out energy involved.

Let Organization X and over 60 others with working QMOGENs do proper scientific experiments - including the measurement of torque.

Lawrence
rely 3038 3092
LOL, neither Organization X, nor even Racer X can make your fantasy true.  Vidar's experiment was actually very scientific.  Unlike you, he actually conceived, executed and presented an experiment that proved his contentions.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 12, 2015, 10:54:32 AM
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2013:12:21#1930.2F1960_QMoGen_and_1882_patents_--_It.27s_variants_have_been_around_a_long_time

From: Butlergrt
To: sterlingda
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 8:03 PM
Subject: 1930/1960 QMoGen and 1882 patents, it's variants have been around a long time

Good Evening,
I believe many of you will find this most interesting, if you read it in it's entirety and think about it... Oh the surprises in life! A patent in 1882 and the U.S. Navy.
The QMoGen and it's variants has been around since 1882, less self-looping and then maybe....

The lead-out energy theory provides the theoretical justification for something that existed for a long time...

Those who do not understand Physics and Centrifugal Forces cannot see even it they look.  They cannot understand (or paid not to understand).  The logical path to take is to ignore them...

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 12, 2015, 03:29:21 PM
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2013:12:21#1930.2F1960_QMoGen_and_1882_patents_--_It.27s_variants_have_been_around_a_long_time (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2013:12:21#1930.2F1960_QMoGen_and_1882_patents_--_It.27s_variants_have_been_around_a_long_time)

I believe many of you will find this most interesting, if you read it in it's entirety and think about it... Oh the surprises in life! A patent in 1882 and the U.S. Navy.


"Of these, closest to the QMoGen is the Amplidyne developed in WWII by Mr. Alexanderson in 1943..."

Some fairly complicated motor systems here:
EFW Alexanderson.  Electric drive. Feb 23rd, 2,312,061 and 62,  April 6th, 2,315,489  (and 90 and 91).


List:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&f=S&l=50&d=PALL&RS=%28IN%2Fanderson+AND+ISD%2F1943%29&Refine=Refine+Search&Query=in%2Falexanderson+and+isd%2F1943


First doc:
http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=02312061&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-adv.htm%2526r%3D7%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526S1%3D%28alexanderson.INNM.%252BAND%252B1943$.PD.%29%2526OS%3Din%2Falexanderson%252Band%252Bisd%2F1943%2526RS%3D%28IN%2Falexanderson%252BAND%252BISD%2F1943%29&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

Can someone review this lot? They're beyond my ken.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 12, 2015, 08:26:41 PM
It is necessary to measure torque if there is lead-out energy involved.

Let Organization X and over 60 others with working QMOGENs do proper scientific experiments - including the measurement of torque.

Lawrence
rely 3038 3092
Ther is no "if". Lead out energy does not exist. And again, energy involves more than torque. Guess what.
Organization X might exist, and if it does, there are 60 ignorant members of it - all not capable to fix a broken wheel.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 12, 2015, 08:56:53 PM
The rotation of the Unbalanced Wheel effectively produced a vertical oscillation.  The effective force on the shaft is higher when the Unbalanced Weight is moving down and lower when the Unbalanced Weight is moving up.  This is due to the difference in centrifugal force.

If a flywheel is used, some energy will be stored.  The increased torque and stored energy will rotate a generator with more power.  The additional lead-out gravitational energy acts in the same way as the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.

This experiment can be repeated worldwide.  The cost of an old bicycle wheel in China is "scrap".  Any recycling center will have dozens.

The debunkers will not (or paid not to) do such an experiment.  They can jeer and smear.  Was Jesus jeered and smeared at before he was crucified?

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092
Vertical oscillation does not differ from horizontal oscillation as in my experiment.
Reason: Gravity cannot apply energy into a mechanical oscillation system.
Gravity is just a force that pulls on the imbalanced wheel equally in all its positions - gained torque cannot happen.


Centrifugal force is a reactive force. A reactive force is a force that exchange within the closed loop and cannot perform work outside this system.
You can tap the energy from this force and its moving mass, but that will only cause the oscillation to stop - as shown in my video.


A rotating flywheel stores energy - potential energy that is. It has no torque because the stored energy in it does not change.
IF there was additional torque, positive torque that is, added to it from gravity, this flywheel would accelerate beyond comprehension
- in no time just by looking at it. Did that happen? NO!


I have replicated this very system, posted it on youtube, and linked it here. The result speaks for itself.


I am a debunker, not payed, and spent about two hours of my life replicating this system - including posting it on youtube and linked it here.
So your statement is untrue.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 12, 2015, 10:40:02 PM
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2013:12:21#1930.2F1960_QMoGen_and_1882_patents_--_It.27s_variants_have_been_around_a_long_time

From: Butlergrt
To: sterlingda
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 8:03 PM
Subject: 1930/1960 QMoGen and 1882 patents, it's variants have been around a long time

Good Evening,
I believe many of you will find this most interesting, if you read it in it's entirety and think about it... Oh the surprises in life! A patent in 1882 and the U.S. Navy.
The QMoGen and it's variants has been around since 1882, less self-looping and then maybe....

The lead-out energy theory provides the theoretical justification for something that existed for a long time...

Those who do not understand Physics and Centrifugal Forces cannot see even it they look.  They cannot understand (or paid not to understand).  The logical path to take is to ignore them...

Lawrence
reply 3038 3092
The flippin' fool who disregards physics is you dude.  But since you are just trolling with your idiocy, you know that.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2015, 10:44:44 PM
Mark:

Hey, maybe Lawrence is being paid to post this crap?  Have we considered this?  Possibly to obfuscate?

That would at least make some sense.  He may be working for the Chinese government?


Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 12, 2015, 11:45:45 PM
Mark:

Hey, maybe Lawrence is being paid to post this crap?  Have we considered this?  Possibly to obfuscate?

That would at least make some sense.  He may be working for the Chinese government?


Bill
If that is so they aren't getting their money's worth.  He is less than unconvincing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 13, 2015, 12:31:02 AM
I am consolidating the Tsinghua University QMOGEN and the Flying Saucer information in one file for easier reference.

A  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Platform Experiment
References:
1.   Reply 3028 at overunity.com, Milkovic 2SO thread. 
Experimental procedure
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443538/#msg443538
2.   Reply 2990
Examples of Good and Bad Unbalanced Wheels
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443347/#msg443347
3.   Reply 2994
Experiment 13 configuration suggestion
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443378/#msg443378
4.   Reply 2981
Oscillating element rather than simple Unbalancing
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443220/#msg443220
5.   Reply 2960
First attempt on estimating the material cost (less than HKD3,00)
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442824/#msg442824
6.   Reply 2941
Technical Presentation to Bright Students
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442464/#msg442464
7.   Reply 2943
Last attempt in the explanation of lead-out energy
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442470/#msg442470
8.   Reply 2953
Presentation in Chinese
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442672/#msg442672
9.   Reply 2920
The Taiwan Maglev QMOGEN
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442400/#msg442400
10.   Reply 2870
Explain reply 2826
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg441896/#msg441896
11.   Reply 2844
The Terawatt QMOGEN and test by UL
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg441342/#msg441342
12.   Reply 2826
Milkovic 2SO is a lead-out Energy Device
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg441078/#msg441078

B.  The Flying Saucer Information

1.  reply 3045
Theory of the Flying Saucer introduction
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443810/#msg443810
A simple mechanism is shown in reply 3065

http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg444284/#msg444284

2.  reply 3092
Theory of the Flying Saucer completed
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg444780/#msg444780
3. reply 3094
Divine purpose of my knowledge?
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg444810/#msg444810
4.  reply 3113
No need to eject material into space
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445088/#msg445088
5. reply 3102
Leading out magnetic or electromagnetic energy
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445265/#msg445265
6. reply 3123
Predictions
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445278/#msg445278


This post will be updated as necessary.  It will help the new comer to focus on the appropriate technical information.

Lawrence Tseung
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 13, 2015, 01:11:46 AM


This post will be updated as necessary.  It will help the new comer to focus on the appropriate technical information.

Lawrence Tseung
reply 3156

None of the devices in your above posted links have been substantiated nor replicated successfully.  Not one.  Not a single one.  So, one has to wonder what you mean by "appropriate technical information."

Again, you make a habit of linking to devices that are not only unproven, but many are proven to not work as described.

This is your evidence?

I would call it, a severe lack of evidence...or...negative evidence.

Please point us to one, just one successful device that "proves" your theory.  Only one is required.

You can not do this and I know why...and so do you.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 13, 2015, 03:33:07 AM
LOL, neither Organization X, nor even Racer X can make your fantasy true.

Did you know that Racer X's real name was Rex Racer?  He was the long lost brother of Speed Racer but he changed his name after he had a fight with Pops and left home to be on his own.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 13, 2015, 10:27:17 AM
Conversation with Mr. Cheung - an engineer who owns a machine shop.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2100.msg48089#msg48089

I have moderator rights on that thread.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 13, 2015, 11:22:46 AM
Did you know that Racer X's real name was Rex Racer?  He was the long lost brother of Speed Racer but he changed his name after he had a fight with Pops and left home to be on his own.

Bill
Sadly, that fact is still embedded in my brain as is the fact that Rex Racer was a secret government agent.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 13, 2015, 08:26:45 PM
If USA already has the QMOGEN and Flying Saucer Technology, would it keep them as top secrets?

If USA discloses such secrets, other Nations will pour resources into them and discover the secret in no lime.  It was like the nuclear bombs.  Scientific advances cannot be kept secret for long.

If other Nations have the lead-out energy and Flying Saucer Technology, the USA Military advantage of war planes, missiles and star war defenses will be gone.  Thus the Military will put pressure on shelving the technology.

If China already has the QMOGEN and Flying Saucer Technology, would it keep them as top secrets?

China definitely has the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN since 1996.  It most probably has the Flying Saucer Technology under advanced development.

If China discloses such technologies now, will its Military fear a massive "preemptive" strike by USA?  Will it wait until the technology is fully developed and deployed?  If China has thousands of Flying Saucers capable of carrying massive destructive weapons, it will feel safe.

Will an unexpected Nation such as India, Brazil or Peru announce a working QMOGEN using inexhaustible lead-out energy and/or a Flying Saucer?

Their scientists and engineers can read this thread.  They can pour resources to implement them.  There is no possibility of China or USA stopping such development and announcement.  This is the most likely scenario.  My bet is on India.  I already know an Indian Organization that understands the lead-out energy and the Flying Saucer Technology.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 13, 2015, 08:44:23 PM
If USA already has the QMOGEN and Flying Saucer Technology, would it keep them as top secrets?

If USA discloses such secrets, other Nations will pour resources into them and discover the secret in no lime.  It was like the nuclear bombs.  Scientific advances cannot be kept secret for long.

If other Nations have the lead-out energy and Flying Saucer Technology, the USA Military advantage of war planes, missiles and star war defenses will be gone.  Thus the Military will put pressure on shelving the technology.

If China already has the QMOGEN and Flying Saucer Technology, would it keep them as top secrets?

China definitely has the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN since 1996.  It most probably has the Flying Saucer Technology under advanced development.

If China discloses such technologies now, will its Military fear a massive "preemptive" strike by USA?  Will it wait until the technology is fully developed and deployed?  If China has thousands of Flying Saucers capable of carrying massive destructive weapons, it will feel safe.

Will an unexpected Nation such as India, Brazil or Peru announce a working QMOGEN using inexhaustible lead-out energy and/or a Flying Saucer?

Their scientists and engineers can read this thread.  They can pour resources to implement them.  There is no possibility of China or USA stopping such development and announcement.  This is the most likely scenario.  My bet is on India.  I already know an Indian Organization that understands the lead-out energy and the Flying Saucer Technology.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Watch my video again and then show me yours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc)



Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 14, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
My advice to the Chinese Government.

The best way to prevent a preemptive strike by USA is to lead the World into the new paradigm.  Every family can use lead-out energy and own a Flying Saucer.

If China takes the lead, the intention to promote World Peace and prosperity will be clear.  It is a clear win-win.

China has the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN since 1996.  Over 60 QMOGENs are now popping up around the World.  There is no point in keeping this a secret any more.  Have a conference at Tsinghua University.  Let the Chinese Scientists and Engineers shine.

The Flying Saucer technology is based on the simple centrifugal force or the sling.  There is no unknown physics involved.  The only complex part is the engineeoring.  It does not matter if the prototype is not perfect.  So long as it can leave the ground and hover similar to the Nanjing UFO, the honor will go to the scientists. 

The Space Exploration programs will take a different path - with China taking the lead.  Invite the World to participate.  China will not only shine in the manufacturing and financial sectors.  China will shine in the scientific sector.

There will be no excuse for USA to do any preemptive strike.  It would have no choice but to accept the win-win path.  It may also disclose its top secret.  The World will benefit.

China and USA can save some money on the debunkers (even if it is insignificant).

Divine Wine flows...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 14, 2015, 03:15:04 AM
Watch my video again and then show me yours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc)



Vidar
Vidar it is an excellent demonstration:  simple, direct, and effective.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 14, 2015, 03:28:46 AM
Vidar it is an excellent demonstration:  simple, direct, and effective.
but vidar failed to connect the lead-out energy battery, so the result is invalid...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on April 14, 2015, 06:27:39 AM
but vidar failed to connect the lead-out energy battery, so the result is invalid...

LOL you are very funny
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 14, 2015, 04:28:01 PM
Vidar it is an excellent demonstration:  simple, direct, and effective.
I will repeat that video untill Lawrence accept that he is wrong  ;D
This far I have a feeling his brain is made of a super massive lump of antimatter with opposite gravitational field that repels everything we try to put into it...


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 14, 2015, 04:30:13 PM
but vidar failed to connect the lead-out energy battery, so the result is invalid...
Is a lead-out battery a lead/acid battery you take the lead out of? If so, I have only lead-in batteries... :o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 15, 2015, 05:22:01 AM
low-q: that's like asking if you have lead in your pencil...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 15, 2015, 05:25:04 AM
Is a lead-out battery a lead/acid battery you take the lead out of? If so, I have only lead-in batteries... :o

If you indeed have lead-in batteries, the solution is easy...simply reverse the polarity and you will have lead-out batteries...or a fire...I am not really sure.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on April 15, 2015, 05:56:25 AM
I will repeat that video untill Lawrence accept that he is wrong  ;D
This far I have a feeling his brain is made of a super massive lump of antimatter with opposite gravitational field that repels everything we try to put into it...


Vidar

your video is excellent proof for lead out energy BS
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 15, 2015, 06:35:36 AM
One more video to prove Lawrence wrong  8). Firm vs. loose pendulum base.
The loose base absorb reactive power from the oscillation, and force the pendulum to stop.

https://youtu.be/V_d7oIZ0-A0 (https://youtu.be/V_d7oIZ0-A0)

Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 15, 2015, 09:12:25 AM
My advice to the USA Government.


1.   Competition is good.  The possibility of another civilization outside Earth is there.  China has proven to be a worthwhile competitor.  Disclosing the QMOGEN and Flying Saucer Technology will promote much more competition.


2.  The US Patent Office granted a QMOGEN patent already.  The secret is out.


3.  The Flying Saucer Technology is based on circular motion and forces.  Some Christians call it the "King David Sling" technology.  The Physics is well known.  USA and China have Flying Saucers under development.  Other Nations will follow.  A new paradigm will emergy soon.


4.  USA under President Obama has solved the oil dependence on Middle East.   The QMOGEN announcement will consolidate this gain.  The American Public will marvel at such technology if it is promoted as USA technology.  Which party is likely to win the next election?


5.  The win-win scenario is much better than potential World Destruction.


Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 15, 2015, 10:52:05 AM
One more video to prove Lawrence wrong  8). Firm vs. loose pendulum base.
The loose base absorb reactive power from the oscillation, and force the pendulum to stop.

https://youtu.be/V_d7oIZ0-A0 (https://youtu.be/V_d7oIZ0-A0)

Vidar
It's the magic of damping!  The earlier video also demonstrated the magic of damping.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 15, 2015, 04:49:39 PM

2.  The US Patent Office granted a QMOGEN patent already.  The secret is out.

Do you know the patent number? (FYI, there is nothing in USPTO for QMOGEN either as inventor, applicant or assignee).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on April 15, 2015, 09:01:48 PM
 @Lawrence,

My understanding of the lead-out theory comes from your ‘Divine Revelation 2’ spreadsheet.  From what I understand of the theory, gravitational energy can be ‘led out’ in the vertical direction when the horizontal balancing force is decreased, allowing the pendulum bob to drop.  The weight of the pendulum bob times the vertical drop distance represents the energy ‘led out’.  There is nothing new here unless my understanding of the theory is incorrect, so please correct me if I am in error.
 
Assuming my understanding of the theory is correct, I'm having a problem with a statement you made in another post.  In post "Reply #3159 on April 13, 2015, 10:27:17 AM" you provided a link to another post.  An excerpt from that linked post is below:
 
   Cheung:  … Can you explain the energy lead-out process more?"
   Tseung:  … The effective weight going down is higher because of the centrifugal force when the Unbalanced Weight is going down.  The
                     effective weight going up is less.  If there were no loss of energy, the height going up will be higher."
 
The explanation you gave to Cheung suggests centrifugal force is the principle energy creator and not the dropping pendulum bob as you described in the 'Devine Revelation 2' spreadsheet.  Perhaps I am not fully understanding what you are saying to Cheung, or are taking the comments out of context.  Can you please elaborate to help clear up my confusion.
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 16, 2015, 07:53:39 AM
@Lawrence,

My understanding of the lead-out theory comes from your ‘Divine Revelation 2’ spreadsheet.  From what I understand of the theory, gravitational energy can be ‘led out’ in the vertical direction when the horizontal balancing force is decreased, allowing the pendulum bob to drop.  The weight of the pendulum bob times the vertical drop distance represents the energy ‘led out’.  There is nothing new here unless my understanding of the theory is incorrect, so please correct me if I am in error.
 
Assuming my understanding of the theory is correct, I'm having a problem with a statement you made in another post.  In post "Reply #3159 on April 13, 2015, 10:27:17 AM" you provided a link to another post.  An excerpt from that linked post is below:
 
   Cheung:  … Can you explain the energy lead-out process more?"
   Tseung:  … The effective weight going down is higher because of the centrifugal force when the Unbalanced Weight is going down.  The
                     effective weight going up is less.  If there were no loss of energy, the height going up will be higher."
 
The explanation you gave to Cheung suggests centrifugal force is the principle energy creator and not the dropping pendulum bob as you described in the 'Devine Revelation 2' spreadsheet.  Perhaps I am not fully understanding what you are saying to Cheung, or are taking the comments out of context.  Can you please elaborate to help clear up my confusion.
Zoelra,


I know you asked Lawrence, but I just have to comment something:
Gravity only provides an offset point, from where the oscillation have its center. If you place an imbalanced wheel at the end of a steel rod for example, the tension in the rod is already present when the wheel stands still - as the weight forces the steel bar to form a downward arched shape. When the wheel spins, the oscillation will cause the tension in the steel bar to vary from more to less (from more arched to straight for example). This difference in tension due to the oscillation, I do believe Lawrence has misunderstood to believe that there is an energy or gravitional difference that can lead out energy.
If that was true, the imbalanced wheel would definitely accelerate by itself due to the gravitational difference caused by the difference in centrifugal force (His definition of difference in centrifugal force is however correct) and finally spin out of control. That evidence hasn't Lawerce one single word about.
I have posted two videos on youtube displaying that Lawrence claims are incorrect. Those provides help and understanding to anyone but him. He will continue to refer to his previous posts talking about flying dinner plates and lead-out energy.


Lawrence explanation is incorrect, with lack of correct mathematical and practical evidence. I have by practical experiments proven those claims wrong. Even those do not convince him to change is way of thinking.


Here is my videos - again - if you haven't watched them yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_d7oIZ0-A0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_d7oIZ0-A0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3RAL-SWjc)


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 16, 2015, 08:06:05 AM
@Lawrence,

My understanding of the lead-out theory comes from your ‘Divine Revelation 2’ spreadsheet.  From what I understand of the theory, gravitational energy can be ‘led out’ in the vertical direction when the horizontal balancing force is decreased, allowing the pendulum bob to drop.  The weight of the pendulum bob times the vertical drop distance represents the energy ‘led out’.  There is nothing new here unless my understanding of the theory is incorrect, so please correct me if I am in error.
 
Assuming my understanding of the theory is correct, I'm having a problem with a statement you made in another post.  In post "Reply #3159 on April 13, 2015, 10:27:17 AM" you provided a link to another post.  An excerpt from that linked post is below:
 
   Cheung:  … Can you explain the energy lead-out process more?"
   Tseung:  … The effective weight going down is higher because of the centrifugal force when the Unbalanced Weight is going down.  The
                     effective weight going up is less.  If there were no loss of energy, the height going up will be higher."
 
The explanation you gave to Cheung suggests centrifugal force is the principle energy creator and not the dropping pendulum bob as you described in the 'Devine Revelation 2' spreadsheet.  Perhaps I am not fully understanding what you are saying to Cheung, or are taking the comments out of context.  Can you please elaborate to help clear up my confusion.


The more complete explanation is in reply 3120.  The key point is listed here:
From the collection of QMOGENs, some did not use flywheels or unbalanced wheels at all.  They do not lead-out gravitational energy.  Can they lead-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy directly?


I believe the answer is YES.  Let me first list the possible situations that can lead-out gravitational energy.


1.  Horizontally push a pendulum.  The tension of the string will increase.  This increased tension will bring-in or lead-out gravitational energy.
2.  The Milkovic 2SO effect[/size].  The Centrifugal Force will be highest when the bob is at the lowest point.  This plus the weight on the RHS will produce a higher clockwise moment and raise the Weight W1 on the LHS.  Gravitational energy is brought-in.  The [/size]Chan Wheel[/size] is the improvement.
3.  The athlete on a trampoline[/size] will exert the jumping force at the right time.  The re-bouncing force plus the jumping force will send the athlete up higher with each successive jump.  Some gravitational energy is brought-in to provide the greater height.
4.  A rotating unbalanced wheel at the end of a spring.  There will be vertical oscillation of the spring.  If the period of rotation matches that of the spring, the successive pulls will reinforce and bring-in gravitational energy.
5.  An unbalanced cylinder is effectively a super set of unbalanced wheels.  It can lead-out more gravitational energy.[/size]If gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic or electromagnetic energy must be able to be lead-out in a similar fashion.  This can be proven with the horizontal magnetic pendulum.


Thus, it is likely magnetic or electromagnetic energy can be lead-out in an oscillation system or rotating system.  Almost all electric motors or generators have rotations.  Leading-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy is theoretically possible.


My recommendation is - do the simplified Tsinghua University QMOGEN first and confirm that the unbalanced cylinder can lead-out gravitational energy.  Add this unbalanced cylinder to almost all rotating systems and bring-in the gravitational energy


Divine Revelation 2 spreadsheet focused on point 1 - Horizontally push a pendulum. The tension of the string will increase.  This increased tension will bring-in or lead-out gravitational energy.  It does not matter whether the pendulum bob is swinging.

A few months ago, I re-examined the Milkovic 2SO.  I looked at it for over 10 years but did not see.  I finally saw that the Milkovic 2SO is overunity and was able to lead-out gravitational energy with a different mechanism.  The Centrifugal Force will be highest when the bob is at the lowest point.  This plus the weight on the RHS will produce a higher clockwise moment and raise the Weight W1 on the LHS.  Gravitational energy is brought-in.  The Chan Wheel is the improvement.

The reply to Cheung takes the theory one step further.  It extends the theory to vertical oscillation in gravitational field.  The athlete on a trampoline will exert the jumping force at the right time.  The re-bouncing force plus the jumping force will send the athlete up higher with each successive jump.  Some gravitational energy is brought-in to provide the greater height.


Another way of looking at the vertical oscillation scenario is the effective weight change.  The effective weight going down is higher because of the centrifugal force when the Unbalanced Weight is going down.  The effective weight going up is less.  If there were no loss of energy, the height going up will be higher."


Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 16, 2015, 08:46:12 AM
Three teams in Hong Kong are doing the simplified Tsinghua University QMOGEN experiment.  At least one team is willing to share the results.


There are at least 60 QMOGEN claims now.  There is strong possibility that another one will come from Hong Kong with comments and videos from me.  Just wait...


Low-Q may be able to do the simplified Tsinghua University QMOGEN experiment also.  Another member - noonespecial - is in a good position to do it also.  His videos on youtube use the username purelyprimitives.  He has already done the Chalkalis experiments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlUHCMtfvwg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlUHCMtfvwg)


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 16, 2015, 09:17:23 AM
Three teams in Hong Kong are doing the simplified Tsinghua University QMOGEN experiment.  At least one team is willing to share the results.


There are at least 60 QMOGEN claims now.  There is strong possibility that another one will come from Hong Kong with comments and videos from me.  Just wait...


Low-Q may be able to do the simplified Tsinghua University QMOGEN experiment also.  Another member - noonespecial - is in a good position to do it also.  His videos on youtube use the username purelyprimitives.  He has already done the Chalkalis experiments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlUHCMtfvwg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlUHCMtfvwg)
It is simply amazing how you post links to videos that DISPROVE your unworkable ideas.  That video you linked indisputably shows the machine performing work on the stand, thereby losing, not gaining energy.  That video reinforces what we observe in Low-Q's video where the unbalanced wheel quickly slows down when the supporting structure: the pendulum is loaded. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 16, 2015, 11:43:51 PM
My advice to Government X

Dear Government X,

I would like to bring your attention to two paradigm shift technologies.

 One is related to leading-out or bringing-in energy from the environment such as gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic.  The easiest implementation is the QMOGEN.  The term QMOGEN was coined by Sterling Allan.  QMOGEN stands for Motor and Generator Pair with self-looped energy.  The Motor first gets energy from mains and drives an unbalanced Wheel/Cylinder.  This is connected via belt and pulley to drive the Generator.  After full speed, the Generator will supply energy to the Motor.  The original Energy Source will not be needed.  The energy comes from the Lead-out energy – gravitational, magnetic or electromagnetic.

The second paradigm shift technology is the Flying Saucer.  It uses the centrifugal force mechanism.  Some Christians call it the “King David Sling” mechanism.  This mechanism will allow the Flying Saucer to move in any direction in space without ejecting any material.  The fuel can be the lead-out energy that can be replenished anywhere in space.

China and USA already have such technologies in advanced development.
  Tsinghua University has an energy multiplier QMOGEN since 1996 and USA has granted a QMOGEN patent in 2006.  Both have Flying Saucer prototypes accidentally flew outside controlled areas and got photographed.

A very cheap way to test the QMOGEN costs less than USD500.  Details are in reply 3156:

http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445805/#msg445805


The purpose of this email is to ensure the knowledge (or Divine Wine) is shared.  The entire World will benefit.  If everyone has access to inexhaustible clean energy and can travel anywhere including outer space, the new paradigm of peace and prosperity will materialize.

Please get your experts to evaluate the technologies. There are debunkers (paid?) trying to discredit the technologies.  However, there are now over 60 QMOGENs from many different Countries.  The Flying Saucer has been sighted by many thousands.  The physics behind both technologies are laid out in the thread above.


Lawrence Tseung
Email:  Lawrencetseung@yahoo.com

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 17, 2015, 03:57:56 AM
Dear Lawrence Tseung:

Thank you for your letter.  We, the U.S. Government already have several fleets of flying saucers and have had them since 2 years after the Roswell, NM crash in 1947.  It only took us 2 years to reverse engineer the crafts and make one of our own.

Since then, we have made many improvements, such as adding bathroom facilities, an internet lounge, and a holodeck for crew entertainment.
We also have developed a cloaking device so we can pretty much fly them anywhere we want to undetected.

I am sorry to tell you that none of our craft use the theory that you mentioned in your letter.  These craft fly by bending gravitational waves using a proprietary system involving molecular manipulation.  There is no unbalance involved at all.

Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

Government X

P.S.  What I have told you is top secret so I request that you do not mention this to the Chinese.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 17, 2015, 12:04:06 PM
Dear Lawrence Tseung:

Thank you for your letter.  We, the U.S. Government already have several fleets of flying saucers and have had them since 2 years after the Roswell, NM crash in 1947.  It only took us 2 years to reverse engineer the crafts and make one of our own.

Since then, we have made many improvements, such as adding bathroom facilities, an internet lounge, and a holodeck for crew entertainment.
We also have developed a cloaking device so we can pretty much fly them anywhere we want to undetected.

I am sorry to tell you that none of our craft use the theory that you mentioned in your letter.  These craft fly by bending gravitational waves using a proprietary system involving molecular manipulation.  There is no unbalance involved at all.

Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

Government X

P.S.  What I have told you is top secret so I request that you do not mention this to the Chinese.
...they do have a craft that use unbalanced wheels. These crafts is mainly designed for kids under 12 years old. Fun and somewhat hard to fly, but they shake so much, so making milkshake is easy. These crafts mess up alot, so plenty of towels is included (If you pay an extra fee). I think the first model is out now. They named it KidShakeSaucer 3000. They plan to make a mark 2 - the UltraBoobShaker 12xBoobEnlargement 5000 - designed with mirrors and make(mess)up facilities all over the place. Target: Women who can't park a normal car.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 19, 2015, 07:41:30 AM
UFO announcement by the Chile Government.

The Physics is here. 

Video by Chinese Newspapers:
http://hk.dv.nextmedia.com/actionnews/chinainternational/20150419/19117969/20068072
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 19, 2015, 04:45:52 PM
Good find, Lawrence. Especially the part about "copper minds". I wonder, do "copper minds" work better than normal ones?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 19, 2015, 07:17:17 PM
UFO announcement by the Chile Government.

The Physics is here. 

Video by Chinese Newspapers:
http://hk.dv.nextmedia.com/actionnews/chinainternational/20150419/19117969/20068072 (http://hk.dv.nextmedia.com/actionnews/chinainternational/20150419/19117969/20068072)
Have you noticed that in the RC-communities there are more and more RC-pilots using drones, quads, and UFO-shaped flying things they might have a camera on to capture videos or pictures of interesting things they see through their RC-video goggles?


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 19, 2015, 11:58:34 PM
UFO announcement by the Chile Government.

The Physics is here. 

Video by Chinese Newspapers:
http://hk.dv.nextmedia.com/actionnews/chinainternational/20150419/19117969/20068072

The Physics of the Flying Saucer is the "King David Sling" mechanism known over 2,000 yeas ago.  The implementation by USA and China may be much more recent.

The lead-out energy theory explaining QMOGENs is even more recent.  But the combination or the putting of an inexhaustible energy source on a Flying Saucer will lead the World into a new paradigm.

The John Searl device should be re-examined...

Re-examination of Milkovic leads to Chan Wheel...

The Nigerian QMOGEN plan:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_Nigerian_QMoGen_Plans

I recommend the adding of the properly unbalanced wheel/cylinder...


Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 20, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
Good find, Lawrence. Especially the part about "copper minds". I wonder, do "copper minds" work better than normal ones?
The exploding price of copper has forced the government to replace copper minds with zinc and iron ones.  Libido has improved but many people's heads now stick to the refrigerator.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 20, 2015, 10:13:52 PM
It is Easter Time. What is the Divine Purpose in my knowing the secrets of infinite lead-energy and Flying Saucer?

The development of the World was once based on:

1.  The personal ambition of Kings and Emperors.  They wanted wealth and power for themselves and their off-springs.

2.  Then it was Nationalism.  Some Nations justified conquests and colonialism when it had the technological edge.  They claimed that they did it for the Nation.

3.  China learned - with the one child policy that it can provide a better standard of living for its citizens if the number of citizens is controlled.  Japan is deliberately following the same policy - allow its population to get old and decline.  With a declining population, there is no need to conquer.  Hong Kong and Singapore are densely populated but their citizens are enjoying high standards of living.

With lead-out energy and flying saucer, every human being on Earth can enjoy a much higher standard of living without "robbing" or bringing suffering to others. War and Conquest will be meaningless.  Knowledge is now easily shared.  Can the World Population be controlled?  Can everyone enjoy a high standard of living?  Will Nationalism fade away?  Will religious dogma change into tolerance and understanding?

Will China and USA disclose the QMOGEN and Flying Saucer technology to benefit the World?  Will the spread of the technology here on the Internet force the Leaders to think again?  Will the Leaders and Citizens turn away from narrow Nationalism?

Is that the purpose of the Divine Wine?

Is that the reason why an old, retired man who suffered from two strokes  could discover lead-out energy and the secrets of the Flying Saucer???

Lawrence Tseung
see reply 3038 3092

Conversation with a Church Member, Mr. M

Mr. M: "You claim that with population control, every human being on Earth can enjoy a higher standard of living.  The Church teaches us to have more off-springs.  Is there a conflict?"

Tseung: "Different religions, different cultures, different schools etc. will teach different things.  God gives every one a mind to think.  God gives every one a free will to determine which path to follow."

Mr. M: "You are not a good Christian if you do not follow the teachings of the Church."

Tseung: "I do not need to be a good Christian to do the right thing in the eyes of my creator.  I support Birth Control.  I would have supported Galileo and claimed that the Earth is round."

Mr. M: "You will face opposition from the religious groups."

Tseung: "I shall pray and do the right thing.  I do not need to listen to humans - no matter their position."

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 20, 2015, 10:58:45 PM


The Nigerian QMOGEN plan:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_Nigerian_QMoGen_Plans

I recommend the adding of the properly unbalanced wheel/cylinder...


Lawrence
reply 3156

Organization X: "We shall focus on the QMOGEN.  The Flying Saucer is interesting but we do not have the resources to do it."

Tseung: "What is the progress so far."

Organization X: "We have found greater torque when adding the unbalanced wheel.  We are testing different generators.  We shall provide a full set of plans - including the exact motors, generators, unbalanced wheels and construction details.  The prototype will run continuously for at least two weeks before we publish the data."

Tseung: "Take your time and do a proper job."

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on April 20, 2015, 11:50:07 PM
Organization X: "....................The prototype will run continuously for at least two weeks before we publish the data."

Tseung: "Take your time and do a proper job."

Hi Larry,

That is great news. It means this thread should be relevant for at least two more weeks.


And I hope you will excuse me for dropping off a couple of weeks ago, but I thought you were serious about learning Aerodynamic principles.
Then while preparing to reply, I read reply 3120 where you said:

Quote
3.  The athlete on a trampoline will exert the jumping force at the right time.  The re-bouncing force plus the jumping force will send the athlete up higher with each successive jump.  Some gravitational energy is brought-in to provide the greater height.

And I realized that I would be wasting my time on someone who doesn't even know how a trampoline works.


But best wishes anyhoo for the next two weeks.

Then after that, come up with some data or lose an ally.

Pete
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 21, 2015, 03:13:27 PM
Scientists and researchers around the world write about the two-stage oscillator

Only in the last two months, three books that describe the invention of Veljko Milkovic were published

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Naucni_radoviEng.html (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Naucni_radoviEng.html)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 21, 2015, 08:08:39 PM
Joined a group tour to the Opium War/Humiliation Museum.  The Museum remembered the history of how Hong Kong was "occupied" by the British after the Opium War.  The lesson is - never allow the Nation to fall behind in Science and Technology.

China is catching up.  So is India.  Such museums provide the motivation to learn, experiment and excel.

No wonder that the lead-out energy and Flying Saucer technologies get much better reception in these countries.  Their scientists and engineers will investigate all possibilities.

China, India and others will never allow the sad history to repeat itself...  Will QMOGENs come out first in these Nations???

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 22, 2015, 12:34:51 AM
Hi Larry,

That is great news. It means this thread should be relevant for at least two more weeks.

And I hope you will excuse me for dropping off a couple of weeks ago, but I thought you were serious about learning Aerodynamic principles.


Pete

The Flying Saucer uses the "King David Sling" principle.  It may not need any aerodynamics.  It may use lead-out energy.

As such, the Flying Saucer is superior to all known planes, missiles of today.  China and USA are keeping it as top secret.  I believe that the technology should be used to benefit the entire human race.  It must not be the start of another arms race. 

The QMOGEN is likely to be easier for Developing Nations to master and excel.  My bet is on India.  Any development in USA or China may be "taken over" by the man in black???

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 22, 2015, 02:36:17 AM
Reply from the White House, USA


Megan Smith, The White House   

To
lawrencetseung@yahoo.com
 

 Apr 21 at 1:55 PM 


Right now, across America, people are working on big ideas. Game-changing ideas. Ideas that might sound unbelievable right now, but could become an indispensable product or service in a matter of years.

But they might not ever get a chance to make that idea into a reality. Here's why:

So many Americans have the grit and creativity of a world-class entrepreneur, but they lack the resources -- mentorship, networking, funding, training -- to bring their big ideas to fruition.

We've got to change that reality. As we work to keep our lead as the best place on the planet to start and scale big, innovative ideas, we've got to make sure more startup hotbeds emerge in every corner of America, and that those underrepresented in entrepreneurship are being tapped to fully contribute their entrepreneurial talents.

So we're looking to spur some big changes. Last week, for instance, we hosted the first-ever Tech Meetup at the White House to bring together community organizations and innovators who host weekly and monthly local innovation gatherings.

That's why we're so excited about the first-ever White House Demo Day, focused on inclusive entrepreneurship.

At a typical "Demo Day," entrepreneurs make pitches to prospective funders. Ours is a little different. We're inviting a diverse group of entrepreneurs from all across the country -- including those underrepresented in entrepreneurship like women and people of color -- to come here and talk about their big ideas and share the stories of their individual innovation journeys to date. These are the folks whose stories show exactly why we need to grow the pie to make sure there's opportunity for everyone in our innovation economy.

We hope you will be one of them.

Apply to be a part of our first-ever Demo Day here at the White House, or nominate someone you know to come participate. But do it soon, because the deadline for submissions is April 24.

Our teams are combing through the incredible submissions so far as we speak. We can't wait to hear your story, and we hope to see you here soon.

Thanks,

Megan Smith and Doug Rand
 Office of Science and Technology Policy
 The White House
 
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 22, 2015, 02:43:24 AM
It is absolutely confirmed that the White House and the Chinese Government are aware of lead-out energy and Flying Saucer.  This thread is being studied.

My hope is that they will release the technology to benefit the entire human race.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 22, 2015, 03:00:57 AM
It is absolutely confirmed that the White House and the Chinese Government are aware of lead-out energy and Flying Saucer.  This thread is being studied.

My hope is that they will release the technology to benefit the entire human race.

Lawrence
reply 3156
More likely they are laughing themselves silly.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 22, 2015, 04:17:25 AM
More likely they are laughing themselves silly.

Yes, or possibly, Lawrence will receive a visit from some nice Secret Service Agents just to check him out for their files.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 22, 2015, 04:51:10 AM
Lawrence, I will personally tell Barack Obama about you on my next (ultra secret) meeting with him.
You will not be ignored but will get your due. Ignore all the other nay-sayers and only listen to me, the best informed nay-sayer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 22, 2015, 07:51:24 AM
The Flying Saucer uses the "King David Sling" principle.  It may not need any aerodynamics.  It may use lead-out energy.

As such, the Flying Saucer is superior to all known planes, missiles of today.  China and USA are keeping it as top secret.  I believe that the technology should be used to benefit the entire human race.  It must not be the start of another arms race. 

The QMOGEN is likely to be easier for Developing Nations to master and excel.  My bet is on India.  Any development in USA or China may be "taken over" by the man in black???

Lawrence
reply 3156
Can you fly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5e3qoREpuA#t=2m10s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 22, 2015, 06:28:04 PM
Wong: "Have China and USA developed Flying Saucer prototypes that use lead-out energy?"

Chan: "If they have not, they will.  This thread is so clear."

Tseung: "The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier QMOGEN was around since 1996.  UFO sightings have been around much longer."

Wong: "Is China technologically this advanced?"

Chan: "If Tseung can explain the King David Sling technology, China or any advanced Nation can build it."

Tseung: "The Flying Saucers will use lead-out energy.  The new paradigm will be here."

Wong: "The top secrets of USA and China are revealed in this thread.  The lead-out energy Flying Saucers can wipe out all existing war planes and Star War Defenses...  USA and China are not likely to announce such Top Secrets.  But another Nation..."

Chan: "Will USA or China hack this thread or the whole overunity.com? Is it too late now?  Over 100 people in Hong Kong have been exposed to this technology.  Many hundreds all over the World have accessed this information."

Divine Wine is for all to share.  Seeds have been sown.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 23, 2015, 12:16:54 AM
UFO in Hong Kong 2015

Should we be surprised?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2L0ts-JPtk

UFO in area 51 in April 21, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bmgEt--Tww


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 23, 2015, 02:06:38 AM
If population is under control, continued scientific and technology advances will guarantee a higher standard of living for all humans.  Why should there be war?

The new paradigm of inexhaustible energy and the Flying Saucer is coming.

The aging population problem is NOT a problem if we accept that the additional resources developed will enable the Seniors to have quality of life and pass away.  A smaller population will enjoy the increased amount of scientific and technology fruits.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on April 23, 2015, 02:21:42 AM
"If population is under control" Who's control?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 23, 2015, 02:31:55 AM
"If population is under control" Who's control?
Shhh, the graboids that don't fly so well all the time have complete control.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 23, 2015, 04:19:30 PM


The aging population problem is NOT a problem if we accept that the additional resources developed will enable the Seniors to have quality of life and pass away.  A smaller population will enjoy the increased amount of scientific and technology fruits.

It sounds like Soylent Green.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 24, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
If population is under control, continued scientific and technology advances will guarantee a higher standard of living for all humans.  Why should there be war?

The new paradigm of inexhaustible energy and the Flying Saucer is coming.

The aging population problem is NOT a problem if we accept that the additional resources developed will enable the Seniors to have quality of life and pass away.  A smaller population will enjoy the increased amount of scientific and technology fruits.

Lawrence
reply 3156

Wealth of Nations is technology, technology and technology.  The new wealth will be lead-out energy and Flying Saucers. China has the one child policy.  Japan is allowing its population to naturally decline.

Both are likely to enjoy higher standards of living without wars or robbing other Nations.  Both are competing on high speed trains.  But soon, the focus will be on Flying Saucers.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ayeaye on April 24, 2015, 12:52:52 PM
Maybe this question is naive but, is the possible overunity in that device really caused by gravity? I noticed that at least in some implementations of that device, there is some knocking or some kind of spring. Elasticity is electromagnetic, so can it be that the reason for overunity there is really electromagnetic? Which makes more sense, because gravity is a symmetric field, and in theory a symmetric field cannot be made to do a continuous work. At least i am not aware of any theory which shows that this is possible.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 24, 2015, 03:31:31 PM
Maybe this question is naive but, is the possible overunity in that device really caused by gravity? I noticed that at least in some implementations of that device, there is some knocking or some kind of spring. Elasticity is electromagnetic, so can it be that the reason for overunity there is really electromagnetic? Which makes more sense, because gravity is a symmetric field, and in theory a symmetric field cannot be made to do a continuous work. At least i am not aware of any theory which shows that this is possible.
There are two types of people:

1. Those who say they don't know the answer.
2. Those who  say they know the answer but don't.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 24, 2015, 04:41:54 PM
Maybe this question is naive but, is the possible overunity in that device really caused by gravity? I noticed that at least in some implementations of that device, there is some knocking or some kind of spring. Elasticity is electromagnetic, so can it be that the reason for overunity there is really electromagnetic? Which makes more sense, because gravity is a symmetric field, and in theory a symmetric field cannot be made to do a continuous work. At least i am not aware of any theory which shows that this is possible.

Please look at the series of experiments done in 2009.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3As-tmCQU

The idea was to get electromagnetic mechanisms to greatly improve the gravitational lead-out energy.  In the particular video above, a permanent magnet is repelled by the coil to jump to great height.

The full experiment is supposed to be:

1.  The permanent magnet inside the tube is allowed to fall from a height.  The potential energy is converted to kinetic energy.

2.  This magnet is allowed to rebound.  If the collision is perfectly elastic, the magnet will rebound back to same height.

3.  If a coil (electromagnet) were placed to provide additional repulsion, the magnet will reach much greater height.

4.  The actual experiment in 2009 simply showed the energy that can be supplied by electromagnetic repulsion.  It convinced us that the magnetic or electromagnetic energy that was lead-out or brought-in could be much greater.

5. Such a mechanism can force the entire vessel (tube) to jump up.  That was the beginning of the Flying Saucer thoughts.  See the series of experiment especially experiment 5.  In experiment 5, magnetic attraction was used.  The magnet after jumping up (carrying the whole tube up) would be attracted to remain in the tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCz1Byt7fVI

6.  We then focused on circular motion energy - the King David Sling mechanism in 2015.  Continuous jumping is difficult to implement.  Continuous circular motion is much easier.

7.  If we can lead-out gravitational energy, we must be able to lead-out magnetic and electromagnetic energy.

8.  Thus the QMOGENs without the Unbalanced Cylinder may still work but the conceptual picture is much more complicated.

My recommendation is to play with the Unbalanced Wheel/Cylinder to lead-out some gravitational energy.  Then focus on leading out magnetic or electromagnetic energy without gravitational energy.

The top secret of China and USA is the use of lead-out energy in the Flying Saucer.  You can assume that all sorts of lead-out energy are involved.
  Such lead-out energy can be replenished in space.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 24, 2015, 11:28:37 PM
In general, if we can use energy from the environment, we do not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.

If one does not know how to use solar energy, one may conclude that the solar plane cannot fly.

The Chan Wheel is superior to the Milkovic 2SO.  But we expect some will say otherwise.

The Flying Saucer is superior to the airplanes of today.  But we expect some will say otherwise.

Using Electron Cloud or Electron Motion Energy is superior to Chemical Energy.  But we expect some will say otherwise.

Divine Wine flows.  Some will say that it is rubbish...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 25, 2015, 06:27:01 AM
For a Nation, the important tasks are:

1.  Ensure there is enough food for all.
2.  Ensure there is best education for all.
3.  Ensure there is enough jobs for all.  Print money and do infrastructures if needed.
4.  Ensure there is no lagging behind in science and technology.  If behind, others may rob and conquer - making the citizen suffer.
5.  Motivate the Citizens to move to a new paradigm.  Lead-out energy and Flying Saucers are examples.
6.  Promote peace, share knowledge and the Divine Wine.

In the modern world, wealth of nations is technology, technology and technology.

Lawrence
reply 3156


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 25, 2015, 06:34:19 AM
For a Nation, the important tasks are:

1.  Ensure there is enough food for all.
2.  Ensure there is best education for all.
3.  Ensure there is enough jobs for all.  Print money and do infrastructures if needed.
4.  Ensure there is no lagging behind in science and technology.  If behind, others may rob and conquer - making the citizen suffer.
5.  Motivate the Citizens to move to a new paradigm.  Lead-out energy and Flying Saucers are examples.
6.  Promote peace, share knowledge and the Divine Wine.

In the modern world, wealth of nations is technology, technology and technology.

Lawrence
reply 3156

Totally wrong Lawrence, you sound like a true Communist.

The ONLY job of any Government is...to provide boarder security protection, protection from an invading force.

Period.

The other items you listed are up to individuals to provide for themselves.

If an individual wants a flying saucer, he has to build one and not ask the Government to give him one for free.  (Free, in this case as in all others, really means at other taxpayer's expense.)

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on April 25, 2015, 06:20:01 PM
Lawrence, I repeat AGAIN: There are no lead out energy.
I post my third demonstration - now with a "gravity assisted lead out energy pendulum".
First demonstration in this video is a loaded pendulum.
Second demonstration in the same video is a non-loaded pendulum.


I use gravity as the "energy boost" - except gavity did not change the beaviour from the experiment done with the pendulum base placed upright (watch the second video as well to compare)


Look closely at the "gravity assisted" version, if you dare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4kPOX9Vio (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4kPOX9Vio)


The upright version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_d7oIZ0-A0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_d7oIZ0-A0)


Let me know if you see any significant difference.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ayeaye on April 25, 2015, 07:16:39 PM
Pirate88179, no no, the government has much more job than you said, has to be much bigger. Because the government's function is much wider. It is to make sure that using freedom by one people, doesn't restrict the freedom of another people. Defending country from an outside attack, is only a part of it. Because this is people outside, want to use their freedom the way that it restricts the freedom of the people, in the country.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 25, 2015, 07:40:20 PM
Pirate88179, no no, the government has much more job than you said, has to be much bigger. Because the government's function is much wider. It is to make sure that using freedom by one people, doesn't restrict the freedom of another people. Defending country from an outside attack, is only a part of it. Because this is people outside, want to use their freedom the way that it restricts the freedom of the people, in the country.

I don't disagree with that.  We have the Constitution that outlines all of what the Government can NOT do. 

My point was to Lawrence, that our Government in the US was never supposed to provide food, healthcare, shelter, water, etc.  The people are supposed to provide that for themselves.  Until FDR came along, that is exactly what the people did.

Now we have 48% of the population living off of the hard work of the rest of us and it sickens me.  My pay has been going down and my taxes are going up and up and up.  My neighbor does not work.  He just got a new car!  (My vehicle is a 1995 with 240,000 miles)  I asked how he could afford that car as I know he does not work, and he said the Gov. just increased his welfare checks to over $3,000/month!  He pays nothing for rent, gets $500/month in food stamps, has free internet with higher speeds than I can afford, a free smart phone with free minutes both data and calling, free healthcare (While I am supposed to pay a fine and have no healthcare) and lives alone like a king while the rest of us pay for it.

He is not disabled, he told me he would rather not work as life is too short.  He said he makes a lot more money now staying home than he ever made by working.  This is just wrong.  We now have millions and millions of folks doing this.

That was my point.  The Government can not provide all of this as it has no money other than what it takes from the rest of us.  We have no business paying people not to work, especially as much as they are getting.

Sorry for the rant but, as you can tell, this pisses me off greatly.  Everyone that is able to should work and carry their own weight.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Farmhand on April 25, 2015, 10:52:23 PM
I'm assuming you are in the UK Bill. That's a pretty good graft the neighbor has going there but your beef should be with the Legislators that implemented the benefits scheme, not the neighbor, it's human nature to take advantage of opportunities that will benefit the self, and he's right, life is too short. But we all know it matters not who is in government, the neighbor still gets his benefits. What does that tell you. All the people that voted are OK with it ? Or the system does not respond to voting pressure about the issue ? Or the people don't make it an issue ?

Truth is the way the world is going it is just not possible to employ everybody. Truth is no one should be working for anyone else if they want to be really free. Truth is that the current system needs unemployment to be between 4 and 6% for it to work properly. If the unemployment rate gets too low then there is lots of work and many jobs going but difficult to find workers so the employer loses leverage over the workers, the workers can demand more money and if the employer won't pay the worker can leave. If the Unemployment rate gets too high then the opposite happens which is much more preferable to employers and business and also as a result for government revenue from economic growth.

We should be aiming for zero economic growth which might be sustainable with no lowering of conditions ect. Economy cannot grow forever, so any plan involving economic growth is temporary and lacking.

.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 25, 2015, 10:58:33 PM
I'm assuming you are in the UK Bill. That's a pretty good graft the neighbor has going there but your beef should be with the Legislators that implemented the benefits scheme, not the neighbor, it's human nature to take advantage of opportunities that will benefit the self, and he's right, life is too short. But we all know it matters not who is in government, the neighbor still gets his benefits. What does that tell you. All the people that voted are OK with it ? Or the system does not respond to voting pressure about the issue ? Or the people don't make it an issue ?

Truth is the way the world is going it is just not possible to employ everybody. Truth is no one should be working for anyone else if they want to be really free. Truth is that the current system needs unemployment to be between 4 and 6% for it to work properly. If the unemployment rate gets too low then there is lots of work and many jobs going but difficult to find workers so the employer loses leverage over the workers, the workers can demand more money and if the employer won't pay the worker can leave. If the Unemployment rate gets too high then the opposite happens which is much more preferable to employers and business and also as a result for government revenue from economic growth.

We should be aiming for zero economic growth which might be sustainable with no lowering of conditions ect. Economy cannot grow forever, so any plan involving economic growth is temporary and lacking.

.

I am in Kentucky, USA.

The average welfare patron here gets $35,000/year in combined benefits.  In Washington, DC that figure climbs to over $50,000/year!!!  All for doing nothing.  I would agree with you about whose fault it is except I was raised to not expect something for nothing and that you had to work to earn what you needed/wanted.  That part of it is their fault.

But, I agree, why is the government taking my money and making me more poor than the folks getting that money? I work every day with no vacation or sick days and no benefits and earn less than half of what this moron is getting for free.  Now the IRS tells me I owe them several thousand dollars which includes fines for not having health insurance?  They already took 30% of my check each payday for taxes but, that is not enough.  My neighbor needs more money, so they will try to make me pay more.  Citizens will not put up with much more of this crap. It could get very bad.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Farmhand on April 25, 2015, 11:17:32 PM
It becomes a self feeding problem though because as the cost of living rises for the worker the worker works more, overtime, two jobs ect. to pay the bills, this causes less work for others or economic growth if jobs increase ect.

Truth is the people we elect have no idea how to run the show any other way, they fear the unemployed and the employed so they walk the line and play all sides which leads down a bad path, I think we are past the point of no return and it will only get worse faster.

The U.S. along with all major economies on Earth have huge debts that will never be repaid and the people that loaned them the money don't care either way.

If all the major economies owe money then where is the money and who loaned it to them ?

Name a major economy that runs a national profit any year ?

..

Unfortunately when the worker gets paid for his work it is "funny money", at any given time it could become worthless anyway. Market manipulation will always ensure another recession and so forth. The entire system is BS.

I believe our governments are borrowing money that they cannot pay back at almost no interest. The taxpayer in three generations or so will be paying for most of the welfare now so don't feel too bad.

..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 25, 2015, 11:45:52 PM
It becomes a self feeding problem though because as the cost of living rises for the worker the worker works more, overtime, two jobs ect. to pay the bills, this causes less work for others or economic growth if jobs increase ect.

Truth is the people we elect have no idea how to run the show any other way, they fear the unemployed and the employed so they walk the line and play all sides which leads down a bad path, I think we are past the point of no return and it will only get worse faster.

The U.S. along with all major economies on Earth have huge debts that will never be repaid and the people that loaned them the money don't care either way.

If all the major economies owe money then where is the money and who loaned it to them ?

Name a major economy that runs a national profit any year ?

..

Unfortunately when the worker gets paid for his work it is "funny money", at any given time it could become worthless anyway. Market manipulation will always ensure another recession and so forth. The entire system is BS.

I believe our governments are borrowing money that they cannot pay back at almost no interest. The taxpayer in three generations or so will be paying for most of the welfare now so don't feel too bad.

..

You are exactly correct on all points.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: allcanadian on April 26, 2015, 12:42:00 AM
@Farmhand
Quote
Unfortunately when the worker gets paid for his work it is "funny money", at any
given time it could become worthless anyway. Market manipulation will always
ensure another recession and so forth. The entire system is BS.
You got that right, it is a system designed to enslave the user and they buy into it without question. Hell most practically beg for it and stand in line to become a slave, they call it the American way where they serve their country until they are aged then it leaves them for dead.
AC
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 26, 2015, 01:02:19 AM
@FarmhandYou got that right, it is a system designed to enslave the user and they buy into it without question. Hell most practically beg for it and stand in line to become a slave, they call it the American way where they serve their country until they are aged then it leaves them for dead.
AC

But, it did not used to be this way...it started before Obama but, he has accelerated our decline.  He shreds the Constitution which was there to prevent this type of thing from happening.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 26, 2015, 01:58:26 AM
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2100.0

Go to Chapter 8.6 of the innovation.doc and read

Meaningful Economic Activities.

Modern Wealth is no long paying taxes to the Government.  It is the other way - the Government provides the platform to generate Meaningful Economic Activities.

Flying Saucers with lead-out energy will required Government planning and infrastructure support.  Cars need roads.  Flying Saucers need rules, regulations, safety and many other issues.  An entire prototype city needs to be built.

Any one can propose the plans via the Internet.  The initiator need not be a government official.

Who will have the first prototype city?  USA, China, India or another Nation???

Lawrence
reply 3156

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 26, 2015, 02:02:55 AM
What I want to know is...is anyone working on designing flying cups?

This could be important.

Then, we could all have flying cups and saucers.  Kind of like the Yin and Yang.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 26, 2015, 02:17:28 AM
What I want to know is...is anyone working on designing flying cups?

This could be important.

Then, we could all have flying cups and saucers.  Kind of like the Yin and Yang.

Bill
I believe that you can ride those at secret R&D facilities in Anaheim CA and Orlando FL.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 26, 2015, 02:51:47 AM
I believe that you can ride those at secret R&D facilities in Anaheim CA and Orlando FL.

A close friend told me about that, but he said it is top secret so I didn't want to post here.  I will have to check this out.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 26, 2015, 02:57:45 AM
I am in Kentucky, USA.

The average welfare patron here gets $35,000/year in combined benefits.  In Washington, DC that figure climbs to over $50,000/year!!!  All for doing nothing.  I would agree with you about whose fault it is except I was raised to not expect something for nothing and that you had to work to earn what you needed/wanted.  That part of it is their fault.

But, I agree, why is the government taking my money and making me more poor than the folks getting that money? I work every day with no vacation or sick days and no benefits and earn less than half of what this moron is getting for free.  Now the IRS tells me I owe them several thousand dollars which includes fines for not having health insurance?  They already took 30% of my check each payday for taxes but, that is not enough.  My neighbor needs more money, so they will try to make me pay more.  Citizens will not put up with much more of this crap. It could get very bad.

Bill

I agree that some people take advantage of the system, and this should not occur. But lets imagine what our country would be like, if we did not take care of the impoverished sector... which, quite frankly is nearly half of the U.S......

People would starve, be homeless (wait that's already happening....) kids would go without the basic staples of life, businesses would fail because there is no expendable income to float the economy, interest rates would skyrocket, taxes would increase because of a lack of income and expenditures....

there is no perfect solution, but don't think for a minute that the political advisors are blindly making up these systems for no reason... it is all well thought out and planned for the best achievable result, and constantly reassessed and updated towards improvement. If we had a better answer we would implement it.
But the sad fact of the matter is, the more we 'dumb down' our education system, and raise children to rely more on technology instead of the knowledge they need to do things themselves, the worse this situation becomes. knowledge is lost, and with it goes ethics, morality, perseverance, integrity, intellect, skillsets

You can see this happening in every sector. When I was a kid Boyscouts were taught to "survive" in almost any situation.
  now days they aren't even properly trained to start a campfire...
Meteorology used to be a science, people were trained with the knowledge of air currents, barometric pressure, humidity, and all the conditions that make up our weather...  now T.V. stations hire any pretty-looking idiot that can read a computer printoff.
smart devices and calculators used in schools, curriculum becoming more and more vague and irrelevant, useless.....
We teach our kids to be idiots... If they manage to make it through highschool, and/or college, they didn't really learn anything, and most of them never land a job in the field they were allegedly trained in. They end up taking a low-paying job that barely makes ends-meat. Compound these problems with a higher divorce rate, and the subsequent increase in single parents...
People can't afford to pay their bills, they can't afford medical insurance, so we force them to take on medicare or they risk losing their precious tax returns... Can't afford food for their families, so they need food stamps. Rent is too high for the average income per area, so welfare increases. We created these problems in our society. What do we do other than help these people? Let them suffer?
  It is not much of a wonder when they grow up to be lazy and try to find an easy way out.
There's no value placed on hard work anymore.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 26, 2015, 03:20:18 AM
I am sure that Tsinghua University knows how to build the lead-out energy flying saucers.

Wang, Lee and I gave the basic lecture in 2006.

Hong Kong has UFO sightings recently.  I would not be surprised if some Flying Saucer Prototypes are being built or tested close by...

Shenzhen is one of the most innovative high-technology cities of China.  I also gave a lecture there.  The chance of some of the over 600 audience understanding the significance of the lecture is high.  This thread is being studied.

If China reveals the top secret...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 26, 2015, 04:00:52 AM
I agree that some people take advantage of the system, and this should not occur. But lets imagine what our country would be like, if we did not take care of the impoverished sector... which, quite frankly is nearly half of the U.S......

People would starve, be homeless (wait that's already happening....) kids would go without the basic staples of life, businesses would fail because there is no expendable income to float the economy, interest rates would skyrocket, taxes would increase because of a lack of income and expenditures....

there is no perfect solution, but don't think for a minute that the political advisors are blindly making up these systems for no reason... it is all well thought out and planned for the best achievable result, and constantly reassessed and updated towards improvement. If we had a better answer we would implement it.
But the sad fact of the matter is, the more we 'dumb down' our education system, and raise children to rely more on technology instead of the knowledge they need to do things themselves, the worse this situation becomes. knowledge is lost, and with it goes ethics, morality, perseverance, integrity, intellect, skillsets

You can see this happening in every sector. When I was a kid Boyscouts were taught to "survive" in almost any situation.
  now days they aren't even properly trained to start a campfire...
Meteorology used to be a science, people were trained with the knowledge of air currents, barometric pressure, humidity, and all the conditions that make up our weather...  now T.V. stations hire any pretty-looking idiot that can read a computer printoff.
smart devices and calculators used in schools, curriculum becoming more and more vague and irrelevant, useless.....
We teach our kids to be idiots... If they manage to make it through highschool, and/or college, they didn't really learn anything, and most of them never land a job in the field they were allegedly trained in. They end up taking a low-paying job that barely makes ends-meat. Compound these problems with a higher divorce rate, and the subsequent increase in single parents...
People can't afford to pay their bills, they can't afford medical insurance, so we force them to take on medicare or they risk losing their precious tax returns... Can't afford food for their families, so they need food stamps. Rent is too high for the average income per area, so welfare increases. We created these problems in our society. What do we do other than help these people? Let them suffer?
  It is not much of a wonder when they grow up to be lazy and try to find an easy way out.
There's no value placed on hard work anymore.

I never said we should not help the folks that REALLY need the help.  I am just saying that this is not the Government's job to do it.  Before FDR, religious groups and churches helped the poor and those too old to work.Neighbors helped those neighbors where the husband dies and left a wife and kids.  The best thing about doing it that way is...one dollar is a dollar.  I give a dollar to a person needing help, they get a dollar.  The government takes my dollar and, with all of the bureaucracy involved, it actually costs $25 for them to give my neighbor a dollar.  Total stupidity.

Here is something most folks do not know.  Remember Hurricane Katrina?  All those folks just waiting around for the Government to step in and help.  That was embarrassing.  Now, recall the Chicago fire?  (The one that burned down most of the city a long time ago)  Guess how much taxpayer money was used to help all of those homeless and displaced Chicago folks?  Guess how much money the taxpayers had to pay to rebuild that city after the fire?

Ready?

$0.00  Nothing.  Not even a penny.  But, how can that be?  People had to eat, and rebuild, and needed water, etc.  Well, they managed to do it on their own and, as you may know, Chicago is still there.

That is what I am talking about.  Take the Government out of the things they are not supposed to be doing, and let people keep their money.  It is more efficient, and the job actually gets done faster, and better when local folks handle their own problems.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gravityblock on April 26, 2015, 06:58:21 AM
Actually Lawrence one would need to control inertia.

You can not make a change in direction at speed without destroying the occupants unless you can find, manipulate and control an inertial field.  If and when such is found then flight is rather simple and nothing else would be needed except for maybe a vessel to contain an atmosphere.

In regards to g forces, an object that is pulled from the front and pushed from the back with an equal force wouldn't feel or experience any g forces.  Within the atmosphere, a vacuum system can be used to accomplish this.  This is also the reason why there is no sonic boom associated with these crafts, since sound doesn't travel in a vacuum.

The saucers create a vacuum in the direction of travel. If there is low pressure on one side, the other side is subject to the full atmospheric pressure.   With an atmospheric pressure of 1.033 kg. per sq. cm. we can calculate that the force operating on a saucer of 20 m. diameter is equal to 3,278,272.8 kg.

Cathode rays have the strange property of decomposing the atmosphere through which they pass. Under the action of these rays, the elements of the atmosphere revert to their etheric state. In addition to this, the cathode rays intersect the anode rays at an angle of 45 degrees. This is achieved by using high voltage and current.  If they wish to go very fast, they use an absolute vacuum, and move through space in a flash. At other times, they use a semi-vacuum, and they will move more slowly. The intensity of the vacuum is proportional to the current used and is controlled by a rheostat. If they want to follow an undulating course, then they use a pulsing current.  In space, they use a different method.

Gravock
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 26, 2015, 07:43:43 AM
A close friend told me about that, but he said it is top secret so I didn't want to post here.  I will have to check this out.

Bill
You have to obtain a special entrance permit to enter those facilities.  They have guards to keep people who don't have such permits out.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ayeaye on April 26, 2015, 11:49:31 AM
Pirate88179, your neighbor needs you. Who would need your work without him, who were you without him. All is common good. The only difference, you don't want the good to be so common.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 26, 2015, 12:10:33 PM
From a Chinese Korean War Commander: "Courage and human flesh are not material in any war."

China must have equal or superior weapons.  Lead-out Energy Flying Saucers are obvious superior weapons.  No wonder they are top secret.

But in the Modern World, Wars are not fought in trenches.  They are fought in the Board Rooms and on the Internet...

The weapons are technology, economics and new paradigm.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 26, 2015, 12:23:04 PM
There are many voices out there selling the idea to the middle class that their well being is being siphoned away by meager benefits to the weakest and most vulnerable in society.  The middle class are being systemically hosed not by the poor but by the wealthiest in our society.  The decimation of capital gains and estate taxes have led to the rich becoming super rich and their idle children get to keep that largesse.  The difference between a dilletante and a homeless person is in daddy's bank account.  The big welfare programs in the US support the big banks (fed discount window lends at a quarter point and the government borrows back at 3.25%) and a completely overblown military industrial complex.  More than $1 trillion per year go down those two rat holes.  Suppose we were to cut that in half.  Think of the economic activity we could generate with half a trillion per year. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Farmhand on April 26, 2015, 10:23:12 PM
But Mark, for a country with a huge debt that also runs a deficit every year halving a portion of the "loaned money" should only mean loaning less money, not loaning the same amount of money and staying in debt. If by some miracle the country manages to run a profit for the year the entire profit amount should go towards paying the debt down. After all that would be a good example to set rather than the example the elected officials set now and in the past.

Don't spend what you don't have and definitely do not borrow money on behalf of others that no one can pay back. Our government borrowed some 40 billion dollars and just handed it all out to the population during the GFC to stimulate the economy, it wasn't needed and did more harm than good because now we must pay it back with interest. Which no country should have to do. It's all a contrived mess. The messier it gets the harder it is to sort out and hold anyone responsible. The government of the day has no right to borrow money from some entity on my behalf then force the money on me. So the way I see it the debt is not mine. I don't pay tax anymore because I'm a pensioner, a real one with a crippling disability. Most likely I'll never work again. And when I look at the dysfunction in the way all government operates and the apathetic view of most workers towards any real solution, I think people are their own worst enemy and most lack the guts to do anything to help to prevent the situation becoming so bad our children's children will be born with debt they have no chance of ever paying back. 

If all the debt in the world is added up there is not enough real money to cover it. The debt is already unpayable. Seems like. I see no way that spending can increase or stay the same without the balance becoming greater.

This is the number 1 problem facing humanity, not free energy. Maybe it is close to the time for cleaning house, I'll jump into big bottomless pit if I can take all the Rothschilds and Rockefellers with me.

That's my offer.  ;)

..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on April 27, 2015, 04:25:37 AM
But Mark, for a country with a huge debt that also runs a deficit every year halving a portion of the "loaned money" should only mean loaning less money, not loaning the same amount of money and staying in debt. If by some miracle the country manages to run a profit for the year the entire profit amount should go towards paying the debt down. After all that would be a good example to set rather than the example the elected officials set now and in the past.

Don't spend what you don't have and definitely do not borrow money on behalf of others that no one can pay back. Our government borrowed some 40 billion dollars and just handed it all out to the population during the GFC to stimulate the economy, it wasn't needed and did more harm than good because now we must pay it back with interest. Which no country should have to do. It's all a contrived mess. The messier it gets the harder it is to sort out and hold anyone responsible. The government of the day has no right to borrow money from some entity on my behalf then force the money on me. So the way I see it the debt is not mine. I don't pay tax anymore because I'm a pensioner, a real one with a crippling disability. Most likely I'll never work again. And when I look at the dysfunction in the way all government operates and the apathetic view of most workers towards any real solution, I think people are their own worst enemy and most lack the guts to do anything to help to prevent the situation becoming so bad our children's children will be born with debt they have no chance of ever paying back. 

If all the debt in the world is added up there is not enough real money to cover it. The debt is already unpayable. Seems like. I see no way that spending can increase or stay the same without the balance becoming greater.

This is the number 1 problem facing humanity, not free energy. Maybe it is close to the time for cleaning house, I'll jump into big bottomless pit if I can take all the Rothschilds and Rockefellers with me.

That's my offer.  ;)

..
For a government that collects taxes, they can increase revenue by increasing economic activity.  Economic activity has a multiplier effect.  People at the bottom spend all that they get and so the multiplier is very high.  People at the top hold onto a large proportion of the money they get and the multiplier effect is much lower.  Look at what has happened to government debt since the days of Reagan and Thatcher when these policies of unburdening the very wealthy went into effect:  Huge wealth gains at the top, and huge government deficits.  The very wealthy at the top want everyone to believe the myth that this is the result of assisting the weakest and most vulnerable in society.  They tell us that the way to run down the very government debt that is making a number of them much wealthier is to give the wealthiest an even greater proportion of economic production.

You are right that governments cannot hand out more than they take in indefinitely.  What many people do not see is that the really big hand-outs are to the super rich and their children.  The children of the super rich do not contribute anymore to economic production than anyone else who does not work.  They live off the huge government give away to their parents.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 28, 2015, 01:43:49 AM
hi Mr. Lawrence Tseung!
                                              Well, it certainly has been a long time since we corresponded - 7 years!

Briefly, i have now been living and teaching in China for 5 years altogether, in 7 places, including Shenzhen last year, and now in Fujian. Besides teaching, my main free-time activity is of course inventing! and i can safely say that these days i am making more progress than ever, though i still only have a very basic range of tools in my bedroom flat type lab here (i rent a flat with 3 rooms)
Last year i also got to know the guys at the QEG lab in SZ a little, and visited them a few times.

This time i decided it was appropriate to renew contact... these days i am actually building some of them, and that my planned solid-state device will look very similar to my rotating devices that i am building, and steadily improving on...

This person has good contacts with Chas Campbell.  It is clear that some researchers in China are working on overunity devices in Shenzhen (city next to Hong Kong).  Sighting UFOs should not surprise any one.

I shall encourage him to post here.  Having more than one design of the Flying Saucer will add to our collective understanding.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mr XYZ on April 28, 2015, 11:45:46 AM
Ok, but I'm not all sure what my designs have to do with UFOs! - There may be a vague resemblance between the two, but my intention is to transduce Energy, not make ufos - I think there are enough out there already. (Also, i'm not sure what that has to do with this thread!) ..

hi Mr. Lawrence Tseung!
                                              Well, it certainly has been a long time since we corresponded - 7 years!

Briefly, i have now been living and teaching in China for 5 years altogether, in 7 places, including Shenzhen last year, and now in Fujian. Besides teaching, my main free-time activity is of course inventing! and i can safely say that these days i am making more progress than ever, though i still only have a very basic range of tools in my bedroom flat type lab here (i rent a flat with 3 rooms)
Last year i also got to know the guys at the QEG lab in SZ a little, and visited them a few times.

This time i decided it was appropriate to renew contact... these days i am actually building some of them, and that my planned solid-state device will look very similar to my rotating devices that i am building, and steadily improving on...

This person has good contacts with Chas Campbell.  It is clear that some researchers in China are working on overunity devices in Shenzhen (city next to Hong Kong).  Sighting UFOs should not surprise any one.

I shall encourage him to post here.  Having more than one design of the Flying Saucer will add to our collective understanding.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gravityblock on April 29, 2015, 12:56:07 AM
Ok, but I'm not all sure what my designs have to do with UFOs! - There may be a vague resemblance between the two, but my intention is to transduce Energy, not make ufos - I think there are enough out there already. (Also, i'm not sure what that has to do with this thread!) ..


You can use the atmospheric pressure and vacuum technology of the ufo's to create something similar to a wind tunnel to power a generator.  You can exponentially increase the output to input ratio just by increasing the diameter.  In other words, the larger the diameter of the saucer and/or tunnel, the higher the COP.  If this isn't transducing energy, then I don't know what is.  If this doesn't have anything to do with this thread, then my sincerest apologies, but I never brought this subject up.


Gravock
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: gravityblock on April 29, 2015, 01:01:55 AM
But Mark, for a country with a huge debt that also runs a deficit every year halving a portion of the "loaned money" should only mean loaning less money, not loaning the same amount of money and staying in debt. If by some miracle the country manages to run a profit for the year the entire profit amount should go towards paying the debt down. After all that would be a good example to set rather than the example the elected officials set now and in the past.

Don't spend what you don't have and definitely do not borrow money on behalf of others that no one can pay back. Our government borrowed some 40 billion dollars and just handed it all out to the population during the GFC to stimulate the economy, it wasn't needed and did more harm than good because now we must pay it back with interest. Which no country should have to do. It's all a contrived mess. The messier it gets the harder it is to sort out and hold anyone responsible. The government of the day has no right to borrow money from some entity on my behalf then force the money on me. So the way I see it the debt is not mine. I don't pay tax anymore because I'm a pensioner, a real one with a crippling disability. Most likely I'll never work again. And when I look at the dysfunction in the way all government operates and the apathetic view of most workers towards any real solution, I think people are their own worst enemy and most lack the guts to do anything to help to prevent the situation becoming so bad our children's children will be born with debt they have no chance of ever paying back. 

If all the debt in the world is added up there is not enough real money to cover it. The debt is already unpayable. Seems like. I see no way that spending can increase or stay the same without the balance becoming greater.

This is the number 1 problem facing humanity, not free energy. Maybe it is close to the time for cleaning house, I'll jump into big bottomless pit if I can take all the Rothschilds and Rockefellers with me.

That's my offer.  ;)

..


This post doesn't have anything to do with this thead, and it doesn't have anything to do with transferring energy either.


Gravock
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Farmhand on April 29, 2015, 09:55:36 AM

You can use the atmospheric pressure and vacuum technology of the ufo's to create something similar to a wind tunnel to power a generator.  You can exponentially increase the output to input ratio just by increasing the diameter.  In other words, the larger the diameter of the saucer and/or tunnel, the higher the COP.  If this isn't transducing energy, then I don't know what is.  If this doesn't have anything to do with this thread, then my sincerest apologies, but I never brought this subject up.


Gravock

This post has nothing to do with reality not to mention the topic. Show us one of these UFO's or the blueprints for it.

Pictures or it didn't happen.  :)

..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 29, 2015, 11:10:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buNCOlB-HeM

see 1.11 hours.

It is the King David Sling technology...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Farmhand on May 02, 2015, 02:03:58 AM
If there is controlled craft then they are only unidentified flying objects to those who are unaware of what they are and who is controlling them, this is true for anything controlled by another human, to them it is identified.

Ever heard of "Secret" Government research facilities ?

First it must be determined who or what the occupants are, then from that we could learn where they come from and who or what controls them.

I do not doubt that there is some serious High Technology in the hands of such research facilities. And that could use such Technology in other research to keep things secret or scary enough to keep people thinking it is from some other planet or whatever.

Without any solid evidence the only conclusion I could come to for any apparent intelligently controlled UFO is that it is an intelligently controlled Unidentified Flying Object.

Where is your proof for the type of technology used ?

Are you saying you have identified the Unidentified Flying Objects.

Please give better evidence than hearsay and some kook on a video.

We've most all seen the video's of the lights zipping all over the sky. But until you can pull up along side one there is no way of knowing who or what is in control. Most likely it is humans, and High Tech stuff from taxpayer money, black Ops drug money or some such thing.

There is no requirement for any free and universal source of energy for things flying around the Earth.

And King David sling shot Technique requires real energy that is derived from some place. Not O.U. All energy is free of cost originally, all energy existed before humans existed.

Most Important below.

Them using taxpayer or other money money to build and fly craft powered by some exotic source of energy might not even be efficient to do even though it allows them to do unbelievable things.

So first the occupants need be identified then the Technology assessed before any conclusions can be made.

This is true for any so called UFO, we do not know if the things we see flying around are manned or not and we do not know who owns them or built them or even what they actually are.

If there is a human inside it then it is only unidentified to those humans that are not "in the know".

I have seen saucer type craft myself moving at low speed and low altitude with my own eyes from right here on the mountain top, the things I see are silvery in color but are difficult to make out against the clouds and the sky and far enough away that I cannot identify them. Every time I seen one I would run back to the house and get the binoculars and video camera but I was never able to get a good look at one with any magnification.
So unidentified flying objects to me.

In my opinion they are human craft and human Technology. but that is just my opinion, they could be remote controlled craft, but the size indicate full sized humans operate them at least the ones I see. It's been a couple of years now since I seen one, but I don't look any more in the daytime either. All I get from looking up is a sore neck.

..

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 02, 2015, 02:37:52 AM
If there is controlled craft then they are only unidentified flying objects to those who are unaware of what they are and who is controlling them, this is true for anything controlled by another human, to them it is identified.

Ever heard of "Secret" Government research facilities ?

First it must be determined who or what the occupants are, then from that we could learn where they come from and who or what controls them.

I do not doubt that there is some serious High Technology in the hands of such research facilities. And that could use such Technology in other research to keep things secret or scary enough to keep people thinking it is from some other planet or whatever.

Without any solid evidence the only conclusion I could come to for any apparent intelligently controlled UFO is that it is an intelligently controlled Unidentified Flying Object.

Where is your proof for the type of technology used ?

Are you saying you have identified the Unidentified Flying Objects.

Please give better evidence than hearsay and some kook on a video.

We've most all seen the video's of the lights zipping all over the sky. But until you can pull up along side one there is no way of knowing who or what is in control. Most likely it is humans, and High Tech stuff from taxpayer money, black Ops drug money or some such thing.

There is no requirement for any free and universal source of energy for things flying around the Earth.

And King David sling shot Technique requires real energy that is derived from some place. Not O.U. All energy is free of cost originally, all energy existed before humans existed.

Most Important below.

Them using taxpayer or other money money to build and fly craft powered by some exotic source of energy might not even be efficient to do even though it allows them to do unbelievable things.

So first the occupants need be identified then the Technology assessed before any conclusions can be made.

This is true for any so called UFO, we do not know if the things we see flying around are manned or not and we do not know who owns them or built them or even what they actually are.

If there is a human inside it then it is only unidentified to those humans that are not "in the know".

I have seen saucer type craft myself moving at low speed and low altitude with my own eyes from right here on the mountain top, the things I see are silvery in color but are difficult to make out against the clouds and the sky and far enough away that I cannot identify them. Every time I seen one I would run back to the house and get the binoculars and video camera but I was never able to get a good look at one with any magnification.
So unidentified flying objects to me.

In my opinion they are human craft and human Technology. but that is just my opinion, they could be remote controlled craft, but the size indicate full sized humans operate them at least the ones I see. It's been a couple of years now since I seen one, but I don't look any more in the daytime either. All I get from looking up is a sore neck.

..

Good post.  When the SR-71 Blackbird was still classified and making test flights, it was observed by several seasoned airline pilots that proclaimed that "No aircraft could do what I saw this craft do."  So, to them it was indeed a UFO.  I agree that with all of the advanced tech out there we have, at least I hope we have, something much much better now that this plane has been declassified.

If I saw whatever they have now, it would be a UFO to me...but to the pilot flying it, it would just be his job.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 02, 2015, 02:08:08 PM
Vladimir Mikael, another author writing about the two-stage oscillator

http://vladimirmikael.wix.com/global-healing#!water-power-supply/c1ixh
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on May 02, 2015, 02:21:13 PM
Vladimir Mikael, another author writing about the two-stage oscillator

http://vladimirmikael.wix.com/global-healing#!water-power-supply/c1ixh
Quote
To avoid misunderstanding, it would be necessary to explain that not always the energy is going to be concerned, but however a work of force, such as in the case of lever. It means, the less force is going to be implemented along a longer way at input, to produce a greater force along a shorter way at output. Although it is not an energy convertor, it could be used as basis for real energy convertors, which are going to implement additional energy within the system, from environmental field, such as gravitational energy.

That's utter crap.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 03, 2015, 12:26:24 AM
Some old photos from 2006 at Tsinghua University.

China had research done on flying saucers and QMOGEN well before 2006. 

We were invited to present the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory.  Wang Shen He was also present to demonstrate his all magnet energy generator.

I am confident that China has working prototypes related to lead-out energy flying saucers.  It is a matter when the authorities will turn it to civilian use.  Most probably, the pressure will come from another nation.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on May 03, 2015, 12:57:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTBfT3rXNrs

save all those videos, valy tends to delete eventually.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 03, 2015, 02:40:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTBfT3rXNrs

save all those videos, valy tends to delete eventually.

Good idea.

I am reproducing one of my early posts in June 28, 2007

I believe in the validity of the video.  Many similar set ups have been proven to work.  Our engineers (Sun et al) have also shown two videos on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98u1FAx9JkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLkMaS3Xj0I

The theory behind is the Lee-Tseung Lead-Out Patent.  The best scenario is 'boat in calm water and good sunshine'.  If a scientist does not know how to use solar energy, he may advocate using muscle energy - rowing.  If he knows how to use solar energy, he may rest and let the solar energy do the work.  The Law of Conservation of Energy is NOT violated.

We are immersed in gravitational energy.  We have masses and attract each other.  If you move, work will be done (Work = force x displacement). Or there is constant exchange of gravitational energy between any object and its surrounding (the entire universe).  Such energy in infinite and free.  If we know how to use it, we do not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.

Much discussion is in http://www.steorn.com/forum under the ltseung888 posts.  The best thread to follow is "using the OU devices to benefit the World.  (That website is no longer operational.)

*** I now realized that using my own resources - a retired person - to do experiments is not the best use of resources.  Much better to let others shine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 03, 2015, 08:07:59 AM
Good idea.

I am reproducing one of my early posts in June 28, 2007

I believe in the validity of the video.  Many similar set ups have been proven to work.  Our engineers (Sun et al) have also shown two videos on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98u1FAx9JkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLkMaS3Xj0I

The theory behind is the Lee-Tseung Lead-Out Patent.  The best scenario is 'boat in calm water and good sunshine'.  If a scientist does not know how to use solar energy, he may advocate using muscle energy - rowing.  If he knows how to use solar energy, he may rest and let the solar energy do the work.  The Law of Conservation of Energy is NOT violated.

We are immersed in gravitational energy.  We have masses and attract each other.  If you move, work will be done (Work = force x displacement). Or there is constant exchange of gravitational energy between any object and its surrounding (the entire universe).  Such energy in infinite and free.  If we know how to use it, we do not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.

Much discussion is in http://www.steorn.com/forum under the ltseung888 posts.  The best thread to follow is "using the OU devices to benefit the World.  (That website is no longer operational.)

*** I now realized that using my own resources - a retired person - to do experiments is not the best use of resources.  Much better to let others shine.

Knowledge comes in bits and pieces.  In the 2007 post, we knew that we could lead-out gravitational energy.  We used the pulsing pendulum as explanation.

Now, we can add rotation of the unbalanced wheel.  The unbalanced wheel is a super set of the pendulum.  The rotation of the unbalanced mass effectively changes the force exerted.  This can also lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.  The William Skinner device is a clever implementation.

Once we understand the rotation mechanism, we can use the King David Sling concept to produce the lead-out energy flying saucer.

China and USA are already well advanced in this technology.  But other Nations can catch up easily.  The new paradigm of inexhaustible  energy and travel to outer space is coming...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 04, 2015, 01:24:58 AM
More physics.

The bright students would have worked out the physics already.

The engineers will have a fun time.  China and USA will not be able to keep the top secret forever.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on May 04, 2015, 12:35:01 PM
More physics.

The bright students would have worked out the physics already.

The engineers will have a fun time.  China and USA will not be able to keep the top secret forever.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Just don't confuse force with energy.
Energy is the product of force and distance.


It takes the same amount of energy lifting an object to a given altitude if you do it vertical or in an angle. The vertical version require more force, but at shorter distance.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 04, 2015, 01:15:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watcv=KJnhyKNav54&list=PL747541D8328BE720&spfreload=10

Believe or not???

USA more advanced than China?  Aliens actually working at Area 51???

The King David Sling Technology is obviously real physics...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on May 04, 2015, 11:01:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watcv=KJnhyKNav54&list=PL747541D8328BE720&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watcv=KJnhyKNav54&list=PL747541D8328BE720&spfreload=10)

Believe or not???

USA more advanced than China?  Aliens actually working at Area 51???

The King David Sling Technology is obviously real physics...
This link works better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJnhyKNav54&list=PL747541D8328BE720&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJnhyKNav54&list=PL747541D8328BE720&spfreload=10)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 05, 2015, 07:57:08 AM
The new paradigm of inexhaustible lead-out energy and Flying Saucer.
Historically, the job market evolved from:
1.  Food
2. clothes
3. Dwelling
4. Transport
5. Entertainment
6. Infrastructure
7. Service
8/ Research - this will be the fastest growing area.  If USA already have contacts with Aliens, it is above top secret...  Aliens working in Area 51 and having various types of Flying Saucer - is it believable?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 06, 2015, 12:31:48 AM
The new paradigm of inexhaustible lead-out energy and Flying Saucer.
Historically, the job market evolved from:
1.  Food
2. clothes
3. Dwelling
4. Transport
5. Entertainment
6. Infrastructure
7. Service
8. Research - this will be the fastest growing area.  If USA already have contacts with Aliens, it is above top secret...  Aliens working in Area 51 and having various types of Flying Saucer - is it believable?

Some of our best scientists are working on the new paradigm of lead-out energy and Flying Saucers.  The Physics is clear.  Over 60 QMOGENs are popping up all over the World.  The King David Sling technology should be easily understood by our top engineers.

Some others can focus on the other areas.  Can Africa produce enough food for itself and other Nations?  Have the African Nations mastered the best techniques in food production?  Have they got the best education and infrastructures?  Will advanced Countries go for win-win scenarios? Will Japan share some of its technology and help to produce more food?  Will Australia have better immigration policies?  Will Catholic Nations allow birth control?

In reality, we can solve the existing World Problems.  We can have inexhaustible energy and be able to travel anywhere including outer space.  We may even be able to get more developed Aliens to help us.

Divine Wine flows ...

Lawrence
reply 3156

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on May 06, 2015, 01:16:55 AM
Organization X: "We shall focus on the QMOGEN.  The Flying Saucer is interesting but we do not have the resources to do it."

Tseung: "What is the progress so far."

Organization X: "We have found greater torque when adding the unbalanced wheel.  We are testing different generators.  We shall provide a full set of plans - including the exact motors, generators, unbalanced wheels and construction details.  The prototype will run continuously for at least two weeks before we publish the data."

Tseung: "Take your time and do a proper job."

Lawrence
reply 3156

Hi Larry,

Remember this from just over two weeks ago.

According to you, Organization X had already found greater torque when adding the unbalanced wheel. And they were already testing different generators.
They were going to run for two weeks before they publish the data.


So ?

How is it going ? Where are their data ?

Thought I would have seen them on the news by now.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 06, 2015, 02:48:37 PM
I was praying: "What should I do?"

The answer: "Help to get the World to go for the new paradigm.  Ignore all personal feelings."

The over 60 QMOGENs now have theoretical backing.  The Flying Saucer is the King David Sling Technology.

Some scientists can work on this new paradigm technology.  Others can help the less developed Nations to master the existing technologies.  All humans can enjoy a better standard of living.

Different organizations or individuals can post whatever they desire. 

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on May 06, 2015, 03:25:05 PM
Lying is not an honorable attribute.  There is no theoretical basis that backs any QMoGen claim.  Why you insist on posting nonsense is a mystery.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 07, 2015, 12:07:43 PM
I trust the Tsinghua University Professors and their research student.

I also trust Sterling Allan and Patrick Kelly.

They all put much work in QMOGENs.

I know my Physics.  King David Sling concept is not a liePulsing pendulum and rotating unbalance wheel leading-out gravitational energy is not a lie.  Those who do not understand physics (or paid to debunk) can post whatever they want.

Divine Wine will be served to the Worthy Believers...

Advanced farming techniques will be taught to the African Nations...   Technology will be taught via the Internet etc.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on May 07, 2015, 04:57:45 PM
I trust the Tsinghua University Professors and their research student.

I also trust Sterling Allan and Patrick Kelly.

They all put much work in QMOGENs.

I know my Physics.  King David Sling concept is not a liePulsing pendulum and rotating unbalance wheel leading-out gravitational energy is not a lie.  Those who do not understand physics (or paid to debunk) can post whatever they want.

Divine Wine will be served to the Worthy Believers...

Advanced farming techniques will be taught to the African Nations...   Technology will be taught via the Internet etc.

Lawrence
reply 3156
So you trust Sterling Allan when he says that he is God in the flesh?  If you know your physics then you know your claims are false, and ergo you are lying.  So, either way you are lying: tediously so.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 07, 2015, 06:43:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI5Z4dnZ8vQ&list=PL747541D8328BE720&index=3

Picture from 2:34
 
The 3 gravity generators/amplifiers that propel the craft...  Back or Reverse engineering?

Is Bob Lazar lying?  Is the William Skinner Device a lead-out gravitational energy device?

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 07, 2015, 07:48:26 PM
In the coming posts, I shall try to design the Bob Lazar disclosed gravity generators or amplifiers.

It is a lot more fun and meaningful...

With the Bob Lazar disclosure, I am absolutely sure that both USA and China are developing the lead-out energy Flying Saucers.
.
I shall use the King David Sling technology to back up the design.

You are all invited to do similar designs...  We shall show this paradigm shift technology to the Word.  If Sterling Allan can do it, I shall praise him as an Angel from Heaven.  (Any one can be an Angel or an Alien.)

Lawrence
repl 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 08, 2015, 01:38:28 AM
The King David Sling technology applied to the Bob Lazar disclosed Flying Saucer.t

The 3 small cylinders can be mounted 90 degrees to the main ones.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 08, 2015, 03:32:59 AM
The King David Sling technology applied to the Bob Lazar disclosed Flying Saucer.t

The 3 small cylinders can be mounted 90 degrees to the main ones.

Lawrence:

Have you not ever heard of a guy called Newton?  You know, he was that old equal and opposite guy.  This is like the cartoon where Bugs Bunny uses an electric fan on a boat facing a sheet of canvass and the boat, and the fan moved across the ocean.

I don't think that Bugs was leading out energy do you?

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mr XYZ on May 08, 2015, 12:53:55 PM
The King David Sling technology applied to the Bob Lazar disclosed Flying Saucer.t

The 3 small cylinders can be mounted 90 degrees to the main ones.

Actually, you are partially right! - All we need for a fuller understanding of all this is clearly shown on YT - just search for "solid mass centrifugal propulsion'' presented by the 'ISA'! - it shows in vivid animation just how the mechanical scheme fits together - and from this we can simplify and make adaptations. In short, it IS related to King David's sling etc but it will be seen that there must be PAIRS of weighted wheels working in harmony, NOT just one, and by weighted wheels, is meant wheels that appear symmetric, but are weighted eccentrically! ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on May 08, 2015, 01:34:50 PM
Actually, you are partially right! - All we need for a fuller understanding of all this is clearly shown on YT - just search for "solid mass centrifugal propulsion'' presented by the 'ISA'! - it shows in vivid animation just how the mechanical scheme fits together - and from this we can simplify and make adaptations. In short, it IS related to King David's sling etc but it will be seen that there must be PAIRS of weighted wheels working in harmony, NOT just one, and by weighted wheels, is meant wheels that appear symmetric, but are weighted eccentrically! ...
The glaring fallacy in all of this is that instead of just requiring forward thrust, this scheme requires both forward thrust and a source of centripetal acceleration.  So, it in no way removes the requirement for forward thrust.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on May 08, 2015, 04:31:59 PM

This is like the cartoon where Bugs Bunny uses an electric fan on a boat facing a sheet of canvass and the boat, and the fan moved across the ocean.

Bugs bunny reminds me of Tom and Jerry - the (irrelevant) episode when Jerry throws Tom across the room somehow. Tom hits a cheese grater, is  grated, and is reconstituted the other side of  the grater.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 08, 2015, 11:33:58 PM
http://www.international-space-agency.us/cps.html

 
Director

Mr. Rick R. Dobson, Jr.(Veteran U.S Navy)

Centrifugal Propulsion System "Closed Loop Propulsion" Program Office (CPS-PO)

ISA Email : rick.dobson@international-space-agency.us

Phone: +(402) 299-2799

Solid Mass Centrifugal Propulsion System (SM-CPS) has been a project underdevelopment in secret for 27 years, and just went public January of this year, 2013. This revolutionary propulsion system uses heavy mass stored in a centrifugal field, and manipulated in a calibrated and synchronized out of balance state to convert rotary energy in centrifugal "gyroscopic" field and converts it to linier energy "thrust". This closed loop mass system is revolutionary in that it does not need to interact/manipulate with exterior mass "water/air/gases" like propellers, turbines, and rocket nozzles, and can operate in marine, land, air, and space environments seamlessly. As long as the electric motors of the SM-CPS are provided with power, the Propulsion System will produce thrust. The system was specially designed for manned space operations, and as a replacement for chemical rocket technologies that are very limited in that once the liquid fuel "mass" of such spacecraft is expended out the rocket engine nozzle, the rocket motor is useless and rendered inoperable. NERVA "Nuclear Rockets", Ion, and electric propulsion systems are also open loop propulsion systems, in that they deplete their reaction mass as they operate.


The International Space Agency Solid Mass Centrifugal Propulsion System is revolutionary in that reaction mass is not depleted as the propulsion system generates thrust, and is a historic first in Propulsion Technology. This revolutionary propulsion system can produce constant thrust as long as power is provided to the electric motors of the system. Utilizing Fission or Fusion power plants in a space operations theater, the vehicles would have the use of 1G "or Greater" constant acceleration / deceleration capability for 5 to 7 years of more, before reactor refueling would be required. This makes the SM-CPS an excellent choice for Earth/Moon, Earth/Mars, and Solar System manned spacecraft programs.

*** USA is definitely working on Flying Saucer Technology and has achieved some success.  China has many UFO sightings - even in Hong Kong.  The King David Sling technology is not all that difficult to visualize.

*** Tsinghua University has the QMOGEN technology since 1996.  Any top engineer can put the two together. Lead-out energy Flying Saucer is a certainty.  When will such top secret development be turned to civilian use to benefit the World???

Thanks to Mr. XYZ in bringing this up.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mr XYZ on May 09, 2015, 05:45:20 AM
The glaring fallacy in all of this is that instead of just requiring forward thrust, this scheme requires both forward thrust and a source of centripetal acceleration.  So, it in no way removes the requirement for forward thrust.
                 "Glaring fallacy" ? Really? - The how is it that this revelation has produced such fierce opposition since it was published? - Here is a quote from a guy who was associated with Mr. Rick R. Dobson - "I personally know Rick and he has disappeared.  His house was firebombed because of vids like this and he went to the wilderness" ! - Hmm, so if it was so fallacious and unworthy of serious attention, then why such heavy opposition from the power-brokers? ... Worth considering!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 09, 2015, 07:11:19 AM
                 "Glaring fallacy" ? Really? - The how is it that this revelation has produced such fierce opposition since it was published? - Here is a quote from a guy who was associated with Mr. Rick R. Dobson - "I personally know Rick and he has disappeared.  His house was firebombed because of vids like this and he went to the wilderness" ! - Hmm, so if it was so fallacious and unworthy of serious attention, then why such heavy opposition from the power-brokers? ... Worth considering!

Maybe he left because he could not back up his claims?  We have seen this many times before.  so.....

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on May 09, 2015, 08:44:24 AM
                 "Glaring fallacy" ? Really? - The how is it that this revelation has produced such fierce opposition since it was published? - Here is a quote from a guy who was associated with Mr. Rick R. Dobson - "I personally know Rick and he has disappeared.  His house was firebombed because of vids like this and he went to the wilderness" ! - Hmm, so if it was so fallacious and unworthy of serious attention, then why such heavy opposition from the power-brokers? ... Worth considering!
It is very common for people promoting guff to avoid dealing with direct evidence.  Do these stories of firebombings and wilderness treks have anything to do with the science of the alleged claims?  No they do not.  They offer zero insight into the claims.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 09, 2015, 08:46:58 AM
It is very common for people promoting guff to avoid dealing with direct evidence.  Do these stories of firebombings and wilderness treks have anything to do with the science of the alleged claims?  No they do not.  They offer zero insight into the claims.

Maybe in the wilderness, this guy might see Bigfoot?  That would be just as credible.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 09, 2015, 02:17:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrM_SGxX6w8

Good opening.

From a person with connection to the Chinese Energy Officials: "You have graduated from Kindergarten.  Your posts are less childish.  Be careful.  You will be stopped if your posts are at college level or beyond."

Lead-out energy QMOGENs and King David Sling Flying Saucers are no longer childish...

The explanation is better than "gravity generators generate gravity waves that interact with space and time" as in the Bob Lazar interview??? 

Lawrence
reply 3156 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 11, 2015, 01:58:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrM_SGxX6w8

Good opening.

From a person with connection to the Chinese Energy Officials: "You have graduated from Kindergarten.  Your posts are less childish.  Be careful.  You will be stopped if your posts are at college level or beyond."

Lead-out energy QMOGENs and King David Sling Flying Saucers are no longer childish...

The explanation is better than "gravity generators generate gravity waves that interact with space and time" as in the Bob Lazar interview??? 

Lawrence
reply 3156

What are the meaningful economic activities to follow?

Hong Kong can go for Super Democracy.  In the past, before the Internet, we need representatives to vote and make decisions for us.  With the Internet, important decisions can be decided by every citizen.

Do not blindly trust any "valued existing rules".  If we can build flying saucer that are superior to planes; if we can tap lead-out energy; why should we stick to planes and fires...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 12, 2015, 07:16:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eQp4grGdqY

The above is the Prof. Eric Laithwaite - Inertial Propulsion Film.

Note that it is different from the King David Sling mechanism as discussed.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 13, 2015, 02:02:19 AM
Email to
public-affairs@international-space-agency.us
rick.dobson@international-space-agency.us

Dear Sir,

I am interested in the Centrifugal Propulsion System "Closed Loop Propulsion" Program Office (CPS-PO) under development in secret for 27 years, and went public January, 2013.

I approached the problem from a different angle.  Some Christian friends named the approach as the King David Sling technology.  The Sling can have increased circular velocity and let go in any direction - up, down, left and right.  If the string of the sling were replaced by a magnetic attraction force, the stone or magnetic weight can move in a circular path without touching the circumference of the vessel.

If that attractive magnetic force were broken, the magnetic weight would strike the circumference and tend to fly away in a tangential direction.  If a proper impact or collision mechanism is set up, that flying away force will provide the linear thrust.  That linear thrust may have a vertical component and drive the vessel up in a spiral path similar to a Flying Saucer.

Details can be found in
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445805/#msg445805


I would appreciate if your experts can comment on this King David Sling mechanism.  Please post in Overunity.com so that all can benefit from the knowledge.

Lawrence Tseung
Retired Physicist from Hong Kong
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 13, 2015, 11:49:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbmBhuKBH-k

Spinning top.

If the top were unbalanced...

Would the weight fluctuate?  Would gravitational energy be lead-out?  The William Skinner device has such elements?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 14, 2015, 12:16:18 AM
I still have not understood the solid mass centrifugal propulsion system yet.

Can someone help?

From my limited understanding, the device uses centrifugal force from 40 wheels.  Each wheel will have the unbalanced mass at the top in the rotation.  The Centrifugal force from all the 40 wheels are upwards.  One wheel may not provide enough centrifugal force to lift the vessel but 40...

This is not as powerful as the electromagnetic King David Sling mechanism...  But it clearly illustrates the power of the unbalanced wheel.  ISA already has an operational prototype from their description.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mr XYZ on May 14, 2015, 08:50:40 AM
Lawrence, you won't get an answer from this person (Rick) as he has 'disappeared' !
Here's what I posted earlier: "- Here is a quote from a guy who was associated with Mr. Rick R. Dobson - "I personally know Rick and he has disappeared.  His house was firebombed because of vids like this and he went to the wilderness" ! - Hmm, so if it was without foundation and unworthy of serious attention, then why such heavy opposition from the power-brokers? ... 
 
Email to
public-affairs@international-space-agency.us
rick.dobson@international-space-agency.us

Dear Sir,

I am interested in the Centrifugal Propulsion System "Closed Loop Propulsion" Program Office (CPS-PO) under development in secret for 27 years, and went public January, 2013.

I approached the problem from a different angle.  Some Christian friends named the approach as the King David Sling technology.  The Sling can have increased circular velocity and let go in any direction - up, down, left and right.  If the string of the sling were replaced by a magnetic attraction force, the stone or magnetic weight can move in a circular path without touching the circumference of the vessel.

If that attractive magnetic force were broken, the magnetic weight would strike the circumference and tend to fly away in a tangential direction.  If a proper impact or collision mechanism is set up, that flying away force will provide the linear thrust.  That linear thrust may have a vertical component and drive the vessel up in a spiral path similar to a Flying Saucer.

Details can be found in
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445805/#msg445805


I would appreciate if your experts can comment on this King David Sling mechanism.  Please post in Overunity.com so that all can benefit from the knowledge.

Lawrence Tseung
Retired Physicist from Hong Kong
[/quote]
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 14, 2015, 09:41:08 AM
Lawrence, you won't get an answer from this person (Rick) as he has 'disappeared' !

Here's what I posted earlier: "- Here is a quote from a guy who was associated with Mr. Rick R. Dobson - "I personally know Rick and he has disappeared.  His house was firebombed because of vids like this and he went to the wilderness" ! - Hmm, so if it was without foundation and unworthy of serious attention, then why such heavy opposition from the power-brokers? ... 
 
Email to
public-affairs@international-space-agency.us
rick.dobson@international-space-agency.us


Thank you, Mr. XYZ,

I think that the International Space Agency initially does not appreciate the significance of such work.  Some of their scientist might have dismissed the work as worthless.

That happened in China also.  But as soon as the information is declassified, some bright souls ...

The fact is clear now - both China and USA has some form of lead-out energy flying saucer in development.  When will they disclose such paradigm change technology to benefit the World?

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mr XYZ on May 14, 2015, 10:42:18 AM
p.s. the guy who made that statement about Mr. Rick R. Dobson also testified that another guy known to Mr Dobson had actually privately built a similar model that was able to lift "three times its own weight" but became very noisy and unstable at high revs! ... not much more is known.

Now, on this  ''solid mass centrifugal propulsion system" as presented in that video, this one is obviously geared for mechanical engineers to understand and thus build, but the actual mechanisms for doing so are very difficult and cumbersome to the average hobbyist, even for a good machinist it would be quite a challenge! However, the video graphics themselves are the best and clearest I have seen anywhere as far as presenting and illustrating the principles goes, especially at certain points...
So, the whole thing can be simplified down to a minimum of 4 UNbalanced wheels = 2 pairs! (and especially for those not wanting the power of a lifting machine, but merely a propulsion device, such as a simple vehicle) Besides this aspect, it is easier to visualize and understand, if not to actually reproduce. Yes, you are right in that the centrifugal force from all PAIRS of wheels will tend to be in one direction, depending on the degree of balancing of course, and thus the propulsion.

On your other point of ''electromagnetic King David Sling mechanism" , can you clarify exactly what this is? Has it been actually implemented somewhere? Can you give some links or examples?

I still have not understood the solid mass centrifugal propulsion system yet.

Can someone help?

From my limited understanding, the device uses centrifugal force from 40 wheels.  Each wheel will have the unbalanced mass at the top in the rotation.  The Centrifugal force from all the 40 wheels are upwards.  One wheel may not provide enough centrifugal force to lift the vessel but 40...

This is not as powerful as the electromagnetic King David Sling mechanism...  But it clearly illustrates the power of the unbalanced wheel.  ISA already has an operational prototype from their description.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 14, 2015, 01:35:53 PM
p.s. the guy who made that statement about Mr. Rick R. Dobson also testified that another guy known to Mr Dobson had actually privately built a similar model that was able to lift "three times its own weight" but became very noisy and unstable at high revs! ... not much more is known.

Now, on this  ''solid mass centrifugal propulsion system" as presented in that video, this one is obviously geared for mechanical engineers to understand and thus build, but the actual mechanisms for doing so are very difficult and cumbersome to the average hobbyist, even for a good machinist it would be quite a challenge! However, the video graphics themselves are the best and clearest I have seen anywhere as far as presenting and illustrating the principles goes, especially at certain points...
So, the whole thing can be simplified down to a minimum of 4 UNbalanced wheels = 2 pairs! (and especially for those not wanting the power of a lifting machine, but merely a propulsion device, such as a simple vehicle) Besides this aspect, it is easier to visualize and understand, if not to actually reproduce. Yes, you are right in that the centrifugal force from all PAIRS of wheels will tend to be in one direction, depending on the degree of balancing of course, and thus the propulsion.

On your other point of ''electromagnetic King David Sling mechanism" , can you clarify exactly what this is? Has it been actually implemented somewhere? Can you give some links or examples?

http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg449571/#msg449571

In that diagram, the key points are:

1. The unbalanced weight is a magnet.
2. That magnet can gain energy via an electromagnetic pulsing mechanism similar to many pulse motors.
3  In addition, the magnet can be kept away from the circumference with another attractive electromagnet.
4. When the attractive magnetic force is stopped, the magnet will tend to fly away in the tangential direction (the King David Sling mechanism).
5.  With a properly designed impact mechanism, the fly away force can provide the linear thrust.
6.  The magnet can be attracted back.  The King David Sling mechanism can be repeated many thousand times per minute.

The centrifugal force is m1v*v/R.  The force due to the weight of the vessel is m2g.  Many wheels can be inside a cylinder.  For balancing the torque similar to the helicopter, two counter rotating wheels or cylinders can be used.

This is the basic mechanism.  However, the electromagnetic attraction force can be many times that of gravity...

*** My guess is that the Flying Saucer seen in Nanjing used this or similar mechanism.  This King David Sling mechanism was known to Tsinghua University decades ago.  I am sure that Tsinghua University already combined their QMOGEN technology with this King David Sling Technology.  The Military Establishments are expected to be well advanced.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 14, 2015, 03:10:43 PM
This is the most important statement.

The 40 disks are manipulated so that the net Centrifugal force is more or less constant and always upwards.

The actual engineering is difficult to replicate with the limited information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_yMdmavq_U
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 14, 2015, 03:36:20 PM
History of the solid mass centrifugal propulsion system.

Concept in 1982.
Operational prototype 2 in 2013.  There is a time period of 31 years.  For 27 years, it was funded as a secret project.

Declassified in Jan 2013.  Is the operational prototype 2 available for demonstration?

Is it possible that the information was declassified and then the working prototype came out?

Is 40 x m1v*v/R greater than m2g theoretically possible?

m1 is the unbalanced mass
R is the radius
v is the velocity
m2 is the mass of the vessel
g is gravitational acceleration

The engineer can change m1, R or v.  He can also increase the number of disks. If this is theoretically possible and implemented, the King David Sling technology is simpler and implementable???

It is also clear that the resources of a retiree will not be sufficient to develop a working lead-out energy flying saucer prototype.  The most likely source of funding is the Military

"The International Space Agency Solid Mass Centrifugal Propulsion System is revolutionary in that reaction mass is not depleted as the propulsion system generates thrust, and is a historic first in Propulsion Technology. This revolutionary propulsion system can produce constant thrust as long as power is provided to the electric motors of the system."

Have I graduated from kindergarten of this technology?

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 14, 2015, 08:37:02 PM
After looking at the ISA solid mass centrifugal propulsion design for awhile, it occurred to me that we may have another way to generate lift.

We can take away the impact mechanism and replace it with an energy take-out mechanism.  This is easy with moving magnets.  The velocity at the top can be much higher than the velocity at the bottom.

See the attached diagram.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 15, 2015, 12:21:19 AM
Prayer: "What are the Meaningful Economic Activities intended for me?"


1.  Who can develop and defend the Lee-Tseung Lead-out Energy Theory after listening to Lee Cheung Kin?
2.  Who can Look at the Milkovic 2SO video and improve with the Chan Wheel?
3.  Who can look at the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier and defend it as a QMOGEN?
4.  Who can look at the rumors or reports of the UFO and developed the King David Sling Technology?
5.  Who can read the International Space Agency solid mass centrifugal propulsion system posts and improve it with the electromagnetic version?

Do not waste time on doing the experiment by myself.  Let others shine!!!

China and USA Governments may have no choice but to disclose the top secrets to benefit the World...  The floodgate is open for other Nations - India, Russia, Japan etc...

Everyone has a role to play in His Divine Plan.  Receive and Serve the Wine...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mr XYZ on May 15, 2015, 04:09:15 AM
AMEN to that!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on May 15, 2015, 05:31:54 AM
Hi Larry,

Remember this from just over two weeks ago.

According to you, Organization X had already found greater torque when adding the unbalanced wheel. And they were already testing different generators.
They were going to run for two weeks before they publish the data.


So ?

How is it going ? Where are their data ?

Thought I would have seen them on the news by now.

Larry, answer please.

Have Organization X found greater torque when adding the unbalanced wheel.
You said they had and would have documented evidence in two weeks.
It is now more than 3 weeks.


If you do not answer, I will assume you made that up (and hence have no problem inventing stuff to meet your agenda).


And if you are really using this topic as a reference for all of your contacts, they will see this too.

Regards (but for not much longer)

Pete
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 15, 2015, 02:24:07 PM
Larry, answer please.

Have Organization X found greater torque when adding the unbalanced wheel.
You said they had and would have documented evidence in two weeks.
It is now more than 3 weeks.


If you do not answer, I will assume you made that up (and hence have no problem inventing stuff to meet your agenda).


And if you are really using this topic as a reference for all of your contacts, they will see this too.

Regards (but for not much longer)

Pete

I am not the spokesperson for any organization including Organization X.  They read this thread and are free to post as they please.

You can assume what you want.  I stick to the lead-out energy flying saucer...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 15, 2015, 08:53:38 PM
After looking at the ISA solid mass centrifugal propulsion design for awhile, it occurred to me that we may have another way to generate lift.

We can take away the impact mechanism and replace it with an energy take-out mechanism.  This is easy with moving magnets.  The velocity at the top can be much higher than the velocity at the bottom.

See the attached diagram.


Lawrence
reply 3156

In reply 3286, the energy supply mechanism can be an electromagnet.  The energy take-away mechanism can be a coil to convert the motion to electricity.  If properly designed, the take-away mechanism can provide energy to the energy supply mechanism.  Some additional energy may be needed to overcome losses.  The additional energy may come from a lead-out energy source.

The vessel can be orientated in any direction.

I did a quick patent search and did not find anything.  However, I shall not apply for any patents.  I just disclose the information for the benefit of the World.

Divine wine is for all to share.  Anyone can post, cheer or jeer.

*** Anyone with experience on pulse motors can design and perform the prove-of-concept experiment.  Let them shine...

The physics is clear and simple.  It is just an accelerating and decelerating magnet inside a circular path.  The centrifugal force will be higher when the velocity or angular velocity is higher.  In one complete revolution, the velocity on one side can be much higher than that on the other side.  The formula is the simple mv*v/R.  If we vary v, the force will be different.

I regard this as a Divine Revelation.  A human being cannot be that smart.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 16, 2015, 12:49:31 AM
Fourth design of a Flying Saucer

Proof of Concept experiment should be easy.  Will someone shine?

The permanent magnet moves at high speed (high centrifugal force) at the top and moves at low speed (low centrifugal force) at the bottom.

The net force will move the vessel upward.

I regard this as a Divine Revelation.  A human being cannot be that smart.  It is too simple to be wrong.

This may be primary school stuff.  We have graduated from kindergarten...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 16, 2015, 05:50:18 AM
I have tried these as well,, I have been playing with things for many years,,

There is more in the area of applied forces than what you are thinking,, or showing anyway.

Not to mention the angles of those forces and there interactions.


Do you mind sharing your valuable experience?


If you have done similar experiments, please elaborate on:
1.  Diameter of the Donut
2.  Size, shape and type of magnet
3.  Number of winding of the energy supply coil and the pulsing method
4.  Number of winding of th energy take out coil
5.  The maximum velocity achieved at the top
6.  The minimum velocity at the bottom that still allows continuous motion
7.  The resultant net centrifugal force
8.  Can multiple wheels be joined to form a cylinder?


Any other information you wish to supply.


My gut feel is that both China and USA military research establishments have master this or similar techniques.  USA has MIT to do basic research.  China has Tsinghua University to do the equivalent.


We are still at "primary school" level.  But we can move along if some focus on theory and some focus on experiments.  My choice is theory.


Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 16, 2015, 06:12:43 AM
At least two groups in Hong Kong are interested in doing the fourth flying saucer proof-of-concept prototype.


I shall let them do their own posting.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 16, 2015, 06:31:49 AM
At least two groups in Hong Kong are interested in doing the fourth flying saucer proof-of-concept prototype.


I shall let them do their own posting.

If they do their research, and work really hard...they might just invent the Frisbee.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 16, 2015, 11:05:55 AM
My donut was a hool-a-hoop that I cut in half,, 2 circles,, and a very simple cart to hold the magnet,, the coils I had lying around and they were chosen because they fit around the hool-a-hoop with the cart in place.  They came from a power supply from a copier machine.

This setup provided little information due to the cart not moving around overly well,, like where I had to make the vertical cut to get the coils on there was a bit of a thump and stuff like that....


I shall answer your post in sections.

You tried to use a standard hool-a-hoop and failed to get the magnet to move smoothly around.

The Centrifugal Force generated was close to zero.  No useful information can be gained.

The Centrifugal Force equation is mv*v/R.  m should be as large as possible.  v should be as high as possible.  R should be as small as possible.  The diameter of a standard hool-a-hoop is many centimeters.  The friction inside the cut open tube was expected to be extremely high.  From your description, you failed to get the magnet to move even one complete revolution without the energy take out section.  The pulsing mechanism was not powerful enough.

The discussion I had with a Hong Kong group is to use a specially designed and machined nonmagnetic tube (donut) not more than 5 centimeters in diameter.  The magnet cart would be specially designed to be a perfect arc to move within the tube. A round rod-like magnet can sit in this cart.  All air would be sucked out to reduce air resistance.  The machining should be good enough to allow the magnet to rotate a few hundreds rotations per minute without the energy take-out mechanism.
The pulsing mechanism will be discussed later.

This is unlikely to be a garage mechanic experiment...
  The USA and Chinese Military Establishments or top Universities would have the resources.

More to come later.  We can at least think out and lay out the design in this thread.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 17, 2015, 12:57:09 AM
CF is no different when using only a donut than when using an arm with a pivot,, play with it yourself and you will see that.

There is another much more involved thread that covers this exact idea,, I read that one a while ago,, I forget where it was posted but it was interesting.

So you told me what I did wrong without actually telling me what I did wrong,, and by the way the cart would spin around the hoola-a-hoop a few times after the pulse.

So where are the force vectors for the walls of your donut??
Where is the CP and what is the changing direction and level of that??
What happens if there is a vertical displacement of the magnet within the donut?

So where is the something "NEW"??

Let us focus on the pulsing or energy supply mechanism.

This can be a coil with 500 turns of thick copper wire.  Pulse DC current will temporally
turn it into an electromagnet.  Assume that the permanent magnet (PM) is stationary with the S pole closer to this coil.  The electromagnet will attract the PM with its N pole.  As soon as the PM passes through the middle of the coil, the current is turned off.  This will prevent the PM from attracted back by the coil.

The pulsing force should be strong enough so that the PM rotates at least 3 turns.  The pulsing can be set up so that each time the PM approaches, an additional pulse is provided.  This can get the PM to have a very high angular velocity.  There should be a detection mechanism, a switch-on and a switch-off mechanism.  The duration of pulse will vary with the angular velocity of the PM.

The key factors in providing the pulsing are the DC voltage/current, the number of turns of the coil and the timing and Duration of the pulse.  The coils should be wound tightly around the donut tube,  A pivot arm mechanism cannot do that.

The energy take-out mechanism will be discussed in a separate post.

I shall pause for 5 days for useful comments before continuing.  (Time for a relaxing fishing holiday.)

Lawrence
reply 3156

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 21, 2015, 06:18:41 PM
It looks like that not many people are posting comments in the last 5 days.

The design is improved to add
1.  The importance of detecting the position of the permanent magnet.
2.  Turning on and turning off of the DC pulse current.
3.  The details of the energy giving pulse coil and the energy take-out coil.

More discussions will follow.

Lawrence
repy 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 21, 2015, 06:40:18 PM
The following two pdf files have been taken to Beijing by Mr. Peter Chan, the builder of the Chan Wheel.  The purpose is to sense whether the Chinese Government will encourage or discourage the development of the lead-out energy flying saucer by private entities.

If the Chinese Government encourages such development, there is strong possibility of raising enough funds in Hong Kong to do the research and development.  Products will follow.

If the Chinese Government discourages such development, the likely scenario is for some other Nation to take it up.

The fifth design is simple enough for the top universities and companies to understand.

Divine Wine is for all to share...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 21, 2015, 06:56:01 PM
One possible bonus.

In the fifth design, there are elements of the pulse motor.  Most pulse motors drive the wheel and take-out the energy with coils at an angle.  Furthermore, the different permanent magnets are fixed in relative position: the rotational speed of these permanent magnets are all the same.

The pulse wheels can lead-out gravitational and electromagnetic energy.  The most powerful example is the 225 HP Pulse motor.

It is quite possible - the fifth design is already a lead-out energy device...

The new paradigm of our flying anywhere using lead-out energy including outer space is coming.  The lead-out energy is likely to be the electron cloud or electron motion energy already present in the magnetic materials.

Will USA and China disclose the top secrets?

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 22, 2015, 01:08:14 AM
One possible variation.

The donut shaped tube can be replaced by a circular track as shown.

What is the best way to circulate the information and benefit the World?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 22, 2015, 03:12:53 AM
Looks like we can break the design into many parts.

1.  What is the best material and construction for the donut or circular track?
2.  What kind of cart to place the magnets?
3.  What kind of magnets?
4.  What is the best Pulse Control mechanism?
5.  What is the best DC Power supply circuit and mechanism?
6.  What is the best energy extraction coil and circuit?
7.  What are the best control mechanisms?
8.  What is the best energy lead-out mechanism?

These questions should be passed to top engineering teams.  The theory and the formula are clearly laid down.  The theoretical foundation is solid.  The device can be built into standard "thrusters".

This forum is one of the places to share information.  However, some may see the commercial value and may want to keep their research confidential.  (Some military establishments may be forbidden to disclose any information.)

The lead-out energy Flying Saucer is no long a possibility.  It is a certainty.  The new paradigm will be here.  Enjoy the Divine Wine...

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 22, 2015, 04:57:51 AM
RE:  The Donut Shaped Flying Saucer.

Here is another version...with sprinkles, which may add to inflight stability under high G forces.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 22, 2015, 03:04:09 PM
Lawrence,,

Look at the pic of Franken Motor,, you see it is a donut,, aka round shape.

I used a single coil for a bunch of tests,, those included a single pulse of varying duration relative to coil length to see about spin down stuff,, all sorts of things I tested and was looking for.

What it is that YOU are saying is there is NOT there the way YOU are thinking it is.

What is making the magnet "TURN" into and away from your coils??  What is that force doing and where is it making things want to move to,, and why is it rotating the direction of that force??

Let us examine the operation of the fifth design of the Flying Saucer.

1.   Let us start from rest.  The permanent magnet (PM) is at the bottom with the S pole nearer the LHS.  The Energy giving Pulse Coil is turned on.  The Coil will have N pole facing the S pole of the PM.  The magnetic force of attraction will move the PM in the anti-clockwise direction.
2.   The PM will accelerate (gain in velocity) as the force of attraction gets stronger.
3.   The DC current supply to the Coil is switched off as soon as the PM reaches the middle of the Coil.  This step is essential.  If not, the PM will be attracted back.
4.   The PM will continue the high velocity during the top side of the circle.  This will give a high Centrifugal Force.
5.   The Pulse should be strong enough to move the PM a few rotations (with the energy take-out coil open and no additional pulse).  This will test the set up so that frictional and other losses will not affect the operation.
6.   The Pulse Circuit can then be turned on and off.  The PM should keep increasing in velocity.  A high RMP can be achieved.  A laser detection mechanism is recommended.
7.   The Energy take-out circuit can now be started.  This will take-out some energy and the PM moves slower on the bottom half of the donut.  The velocity, however, should be strong enough for the operation to continue,
8.   By adjusting the resistance of the take-out coil, we should be able to achieve steady state – the velocity at the top is higher than that of the bottom with a consistent value.
9.   We can then measure the net Centrifugal Force.
Hope the above description is clear enough.

Lawrence
Reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on May 22, 2015, 04:28:41 PM
Let us examine the operation of the fifth design of the Flying Saucer.

1.   Let us start from rest. AND LEAVE IT THAT WAY.
The only sentence that is true is the first one. The rest is just whishful thinking.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 22, 2015, 11:02:46 PM
and the coil will also want to move in the other direction.
...

When we play with circular motion, we always need to consider counter-rotating pairs.   The pairs can be jointed in many ways - on top or side-by-side.  They may not even be matching.

Only the PM is rotating after proper set up.  The resulting thrust is upwards in the diagram.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 23, 2015, 02:09:51 AM
I am very aware of that approach.

Here is a pic of DRUM,, Dual Rotor Useless Motor.

I used this for a few counter rotating force kind of things,, I could make it lift one corner,, rotate,, drop a corner,, all sorts of things except get lighter.

This one is interesting because all of the normal case torques and forces are internally canceled,, so I can spin it up as fast as I want, as quick as I want,, using the drive coil, without anything else changing or moving,, unless I decide to put a secondary resistance in place that the case sees,, I can also decelerate it using the drive coil without anything else changing.

Great.  Examine the fifth design diagram in reply 3302 again.

With two counter rotating PM in donut tubes, we can have two net centrifugal forces going up.  Other forces cancel out.

I am sure that the USA and Chinese Military have such prototypes.  If they did not have it last week, they will have it now.  Other Nations can develop it in no time - Russia, Japan, India...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on May 23, 2015, 12:51:30 PM
"lead out energy " ...

use this device to charge a battery and look if your "lead out energy " exist or not ?
http://www.getampy.com/
http://www.frandroid.com/0-android/kickstarter/249563_ampy-batterie (http://www.frandroid.com/0-android/kickstarter/249563_ampy-batterie)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 24, 2015, 12:56:08 AM
Attended a funeral service of a Political Figure.  He was willing to speak his mind and took on controversial positions.

One of his famous quotes: "It is more important to clearly state one's political stand than to worry about one's reputation."

My stand is - lead-out energy flying saucer is a certainty.  It must be developed to benefit the World.

The pastor said: "Trust in the Lord.  He will guide you to walk on the right path."

One group of University students said: "Centrifugal Force is greater if the angular velocity is greater.  This is simple.  There is no need to complicate matters and confuse people."

Lawrence
reply 3156

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 24, 2015, 03:48:52 AM
Faith is blind Lawrence,, Faith will not build or move things,, it takes work to do that,, it takes effort.

Indeed,, CF\CP go up with RPM or pulse velocity even,, now f=ma and the more "a" the more "f" and the more "m" the more "f".

Then you have the flip side to all that,, the more "f" exerted on the "m" the more "f" is exerted on the coil,, in the other direction.

I do know a few techniques to supply that "a" without having the "f" providing a negative function,, but I will leave it up to you to figure out a method to do that.

I also know a few techniques to remove the velocity,,, but again I will leave it up to you to figure out a method to do that as well.

Let us know when you have something that works.

Reply 3302 got all that figured out already.  Obviously the university students in Hong Kong are better equipped to understand...

There is zero chance that the top military research establishments in China and USA not understanding...
I am sure that they have techniques better than the ones I outlined.

Building an actual flying saucer is beyond my present resources...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 24, 2015, 09:37:09 PM
In many of the pulse wheel designs (e.g. Tong, Bedini), the permanent magnets and the coils are set at some angle.  Such arrangements do not use the magnetic flux at the optimal.  However, with tuning, they can still show signs of overunity.

Magnetic flux is not stationary.  When another magnet is close or when there is motion, the magnetic flux will change.  It is almost impossible to analyze theoretically.  Much will rely on experiments to check the results.

The best example is the 225 HP Pulse Motor.

With the fifth design of the flying saucer in reply 3302, the magnetic flux may be used in a much more optimal fashion.  Thus it will provide both thrust and lead-out electromagnetic energy.  The electromagnetic energy is likely to be the electron cloud or electron motion energy already present in the magnetic materials.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 25, 2015, 04:39:20 AM
In many of the pulse wheel designs (e.g. Tong, Bedini), the permanent magnets and the coils are set at some angle.  Such arrangements do not use the magnetic flux at the optimal.  However, with tuning, they can still show signs of overunity.

Magnetic flux is not stationary.  When another magnet is close or when there is motion, the magnetic flux will change.  It is almost impossible to analyze theoretically.  Much will rely on experiments to check the results.

The best example is the 225 HP Pulse Motor.

With the fifth design of the flying saucer in reply 3302, the magnetic flux may be used in a much more optimal fashion.  Thus it will provide both thrust and lead-out electromagnetic energy.  The electromagnetic energy is likely to be the electron cloud or electron motion energy already present in the magnetic materials.

Lawrence
reply 3156

There has never been ANY evidence that the 225 HP motor works as described.  None.  None at all.  Do you have any evidence that it does?

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 25, 2015, 11:30:51 PM
I shall briefly repeat the lessons I learned from the 225 HP Pulse Wheel.

1.    The 225 HP Pulse Wheel was funded by Andrew Wong of Hong Kong and developed in USA.
2.   One slice of it was supposed to be shipped to Tsinghua University and I with Lee Cheung Kin was to explain its operation using the Lead-out energy theory in 2006.
3.   The USA Authorities took out all electronics and the slice just contained coils and magnets.  No demonstration could be done.
4.   However, we were able to explain the operation using the lead-out energy theory.  The USA team was impressed and phoned the Headquarters to inform them of the good news.
5.   We made the mistake of explaining the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier to the USA team at the same time.
6.   When we returned to Hong Kong, we found ourselves suspected as US spy.  All support vanished.
7.   I made the most stupid mistake in my life – try to reproduce the pulse wheel with my limited resources.
8.   We compromised and developed a few versions of the Tong Wheel.  The third version showed signs of overunity and we demonstrated it at the Convention Center in Hong Kong. The details are in the thread titled – The Lee-Tseung Lead-out theory”
9.   The biggest compromise was the use of the proximity switch to do the ON and OFF of the DC current.  The theoretical correct way is to detect the position to turn ON and detect the position to turn OFF. 
10.   In experiments, sometimes it relies on the experience of the implementer.  Mr. Tong was familiar with the proximity switch and was able to get some results.  We knew that it was not the best but we were eager to show something so that we could get more support.  The pulsing was far from optimal.  However, the demonstration was successful.  We got orders for the Tong Wheel and got some funding support.
11.   I decided to go for flux change systems with no moving parts.  I used the joule thief technique and used a cheap oscilloscope.  That gave the wrong impression of overunity.  Much time was wasted.
12.   I finally learned the lesson – I am not an experimental scientists.  I do not have the resources to build a team to do proper experiments.
13.   Divine help came again last year when I re-examined the Milkovic 2SO (this thread).  The development led to the Chan Wheel and the flying saucer.
14.   Looking back, I was right in 2006 when explaining the lead-out energy theory.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor was real.  It became a top secret of both USA and China.  I was lucky to be exposed to it because the traditional scientists at that time did not have an explanation.
15.   Is it the Divine Will that all Humans will benefit from this lead-out energy flying saucer technology?

Lawrence
Reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 25, 2015, 11:36:27 PM

No demonstration could be done.


All support vanished.


I am not an experimental scientists.  I do not have the resources to build a team to do proper experiments.


Lawrence
Reply 3156

I rest my case.

(Note:  For brevity, the above quotes are quoted only in part.)

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 27, 2015, 03:48:05 AM
In 2006, available to Tsinghua University were:

1. 188 HP Laing car
2. Wang Shen He permanent magnet motor
3. Energy Multiplier

They were trying to explain the source of "mysterious" energy.

We just said that - when we push a pendulum horizontally, the tension in the string will increase.  That will lead-out gravitational energy.  That is a possible scientific explanation.  If we can lead-out gravitational energy, we can lead-out electromagnetic energy.

We then applied the explanation to the Laing car, the Wang generator and the Energy Multiplier.  We also did the same to the 225 HP Pulse motor.

Lawrence
reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 27, 2015, 03:51:54 AM
In 2006, available to Tsinghua University were:

1. 188 HP Laing car
2. Wang Shen He permanent magnet motor
3. Energy Multiplier

They were trying to explain the source of "mysterious" energy.

We just said that - when we push a pendulum horizontally, the tension in the string will increase.  That will lead-out gravitational energy.  That is a possible scientific explanation.  If we can lead-out gravitational energy, we can lead-out electromagnetic energy.

We then applied the explanation to the Laing car, the Wang generator and the Energy Multiplier.  We also did the same to the 225 HP Pulse motor.

Lawrence
reply 3156

Lawrence:

Gravity is a closed system...all energy is conserved.  There is nothing that can be lead out of gravity.

Surely you know this by now?

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 27, 2015, 05:23:03 AM
Lawrence:

Gravity is a closed system...all energy is conserved.  There is nothing that can be lead out of gravity.

Surely you know this by now?

Bill

Please relearn your physics.  I shall no longer answer useless posts.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 27, 2015, 05:33:26 AM
Please relearn your physics.  I shall no longer answer useless posts.

So, you are calling scientifically proven facts useless?

Unless you, or someone, invents a gravity blocking shield, no work can ever be extracted from gravity.  I am not saying that someone will never invent this, they might.  But, until that time, gravity is a closed system.  This information is not useless.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on May 27, 2015, 04:54:37 PM
So, you are calling scientifically proven facts useless?

Unless you, or someone, invents a gravity blocking shield, no work can ever be extracted from gravity.  I am not saying that someone will never invent this, they might.  But, until that time, gravity is a closed system.  This information is not useless.

Bill
I'm not denying your position, Bill, but have you ever had a play with one of these pumps?

If not, try and get to one. They are very weird things. You fiddle the little pendulum thingy t keep it going and far too much water seems to  be coming out of the spout to be consistent with the effort put in.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 27, 2015, 05:02:47 PM
sixth design or variation of the Flying Saucer engine.

Some engineers worried about the complexity of a fast moving magnet inside a donut or circular track.  Some also mentioned that air core is much less efficient compared with ferrite core as far as electromagnet is concerned.

Here is a possible variation.  It is unlikely to be the last...

I am sure that the USA and Chinese "Top Secret" establishments already have better designs.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 27, 2015, 11:39:03 PM
On leading out gravitational energy.

All scientists and engineers should know that we can change the speed and orbit of our satellites by varying their velocity.  We are already using gravitational energy continuously.  In our universe, there will always be unbalanced gravitational forces due to the Sun, the Planets and the Stars.

The Scientists at Tsinghua University already had QMOGENs and overunity devices in front of them in 2006.  They did not need to prove their existence.  Their job was to provide a plausible scientific explanation that is consistent with existing knowledge and allow further development.

The lead-out energy theory was perfect.  When we supply a horizontal pull to a pendulum, the tension in the string will increase.  The bob will rise.  One can argue that the total energy must be from the energy supplied by the pull.  But a plausible explanation consistent with all known physics is that some energy comes from the outside.

The Milkovic 2SO is an experimental set up.  The Chan Wheel is an improvement.  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is essentially many Chan Wheels put together in the form of unbalanced cylinders.  Thousands of tests must have been done and dozens of prototypes must have been replicated.

QMOGENs are certainties.  Over 60 from all parts of the World have been demonstrated.  One can stick to one’s blind faith (or misunderstanding of Physics) and claim that all are hoaxes.

There are numerous sightings of UFOs. I can design one in this forum.  Some may still claim that UFO does not exist because the USA Government say so.

I am certain that both USA and Chinese Military Establishments are much more advanced in lead-out energy flying saucer development than is presented in this thread.

They just keep it as top secret.  How long can they keep this top secret?  Will another Nation develop it to benefit the World?

Lawrence
Reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 28, 2015, 03:14:06 AM
I'm not denying your position, Bill, but have you ever had a play with one of these pumps?

If not, try and get to one. They are very weird things. You fiddle the little pendulum thingy t keep it going and far too much water seems to  be coming out of the spout to be consistent with the effort put in.

Paul:

What pump are you talking about?

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 28, 2015, 06:52:28 AM
Seventh Design of the Flying Saucer

It is an improvement over the fifth design in reply 3302.  The inspiration came at the Hospital when I was waiting to see the doctor.

Divine Wine flows.  This humble server may be going Home...

Lawrence
Reply 3156
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on May 28, 2015, 02:15:10 PM
Paul:

What pump are you talking about?

Thanks,

Bill
.
I can't find the video that I want and so  here is a poor second best from Milkovic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI)

I think I saw one of them at the Centre for Alternative Technology in central  Wales somewhere back in the late 70s. Apparently, they are all over Africa because they can be made easily and cheaply and take little effort to  keep going.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 29, 2015, 02:46:21 AM
.
I can't find the video that I want and so  here is a poor second best from Milkovic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpgl7o_1QI)

I think I saw one of them at the Centre for Alternative Technology in central  Wales somewhere back in the late 70s. Apparently, they are all over Africa because they can be made easily and cheaply and take little effort to  keep going.

Thanks Paul.  Not free energy like Lawrence claims but an interesting approach non the less.  I know it is not the video you were looking for but on this one, it would seem that a longer period would produce more water pumped.  In other words, that is a pretty small arc that is making.  Nice concept though, it obviously is working.

Thanks,

Bill

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on May 29, 2015, 03:33:40 PM
Thanks Paul.  Not free energy like Lawrence claims but an interesting approach non the less.  I know it is not the video you were looking for but on this one, it would seem that a longer period would produce more water pumped.  In other words, that is a pretty small arc that is making.  Nice concept though, it obviously is working.

Thanks,

Bill
I'm not so sure about not being free energy. The one I saw was pumping a lot of of water, having raised it through some feet, and yet my input, keeping this pendulum swinging, was trivial. Since there are two interacting systems, the frequency of the pendulum needs to match the frequency of the big beam arm. "Ole Father Resonance" rules again. This may be why some systems aren't as good.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 30, 2015, 01:00:17 AM
Met Mr. XYZ in Hong Kong.  He now understands the seventh design of the Flying Saucer thoroughly.  At one time he thought that the donut tube itself would rotate.  Once that was clarified, he found it easy.  Just follow KISS - faster the angular velocity, higher the Centrifugal Force.

He will spread the word to his contacts in China.  I shall encourage him to post his experience.
Divine Wine flows...

Lawrence
reply 3333
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 30, 2015, 02:43:20 AM
Met Mr. XYZ in Hong Kong.  He now understands the seventh design of the Flying Saucer thoroughly.  At one time he thought that the donut tube itself would rotate.  Once that was clarified, he found it easy.  Just follow KISS - faster the angular velocity, higher the Centrifugal Force.

He will spread the word to his contacts in China.  I shall encourage him to post his experience.
Divine Wine flows...

Lawrence
reply 3333

This just in:

Mr. XYZ has been killed in the crash of an experimental flying saucer.  He attempted a 90 degree turn at over Mach 7 and pulled over 4,000 G's.  A spokesman from his insurance company said that they will no longer issue insurance policies to anyone experimenting with flying saucer technology.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 31, 2015, 02:21:59 AM
Can any one recommend a precision control mechanism (possibly laser controlled) to:

1.  Switch on the DC current to the Driver Coil when the Permanent Magnet is in position 1.
2.  Switch off the DC current to the Driver Coil when the Permanent Magnet is in position 2.

Refer to the fifth design diagram (reply 3302)
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg450886/#msg450886
for details. (Position 1 was labelled Y and Position 2 was labelled X)

This control mechanism is a key element in the Flying Saucer Research...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 31, 2015, 12:23:10 PM
The MHOP should be able to do the job for you nicely.

This was a joint effort between MileHigh and TinselKoala, and it was presented on this board.

All the details are available on this forum,, just go look for them.

http://overunity.com/13852/self-accelerating-reed-switch-magnet-spinner/#.VWvBmulFBjo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqFOIOTYt-4&index=1&list=PLml9VdOeqKa8F1PebS_EX7AX2aA_ZZtb9

I believe that you are talking about the two above pieces of information.

Can you or someone give a short summary?  Thank you;
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on May 31, 2015, 03:23:53 PM
Can any one recommend a precision control mechanism (possibly laser controlled) to:

1.  Switch on the DC current to the Driver Coil when the Permanent Magnet is in position 1.
2.  Switch off the DC current to the Driver Coil when the Permanent Magnet is in position 2.

In #3302, I take it that the ring+magnet rotates and the two coils are static. Not sure how the ring is to be held, but let's skip over that.

You need what is used in most pulse motors, Robert Adams, Charles Flynn etc (see chapter 1) and also the Bedini/Watson.

Place your Hall effect switch near Position Y so that the approaching magnet switches the device at position Y. This sends a power pulse of variable duration to the left hand coil. Use the circuit to vary the  duration of the pulse such that it switches off at position X.

Check that it is happening properly with an oscilloscope, maybe an LED in the power circuit.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on May 31, 2015, 04:51:42 PM
The MHOP should be able to do the job for you nicely.

This was a joint effort between MileHigh and TinselKoala, and it was presented on this board.

All the details are available on this forum,, just go look for them.
Heh.... the   MHOP was designed to be a "better than Bedini" pulse motor and was set up to use a sense coil instead of a Hall sensor, in keeping with the basic Bedini designs. Its timing is set manually by moving the sense coil and the dwell, or pulse duration is set by a sensitivity control in the op-amp circuitry. It could be easily modified to use a ratiometric Hall sensor in place of the sense coil.

For Lawrence's specific application, a rotary shaft position encoder with 4000 line per revolution resolution and a simple microprocessor control (Arduino for example) would be better, I think. Digital is always better, isn't it? :)

The rotary encoder wheels, kits, sensor/interface etc are available from USDigital and aren't too expensive.
http://www.usdigital.com/products?gclid=COLkh_Wc7MUCFYoYHwodRQQAcw (http://www.usdigital.com/products?gclid=COLkh_Wc7MUCFYoYHwodRQQAcw)

So the position of the rotating part can be read to 1/4000 of a complete revolution by the Arduino, and the pulse edges can be set to occur at any specific line count in that range by a couple of simple potentiometers connected to the Arduino. The necessary program code is almost trivial to implement, very basic line counting and analog-digital read-write statements using ordinary potentiometers to set the pulse edges. Or if timing and dwell need to be varied automatically with rotor speed or other parameters, the Arduino can be programmed accordingly to handle that. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on May 31, 2015, 09:33:13 PM
In #3302, I take it that the ring+magnet rotates and the two coils are static. Not sure how the ring is to be held, but let's skip over that.


No.  The ring is stationary.  Only the Magnet moves.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 01, 2015, 01:49:48 AM
Hope the design thought diagram clarifies the process.

May use oscilloscopes and other devices to help to get full picture with all the back EMF and pulsing peaks  etc.

The initial design thought was to have the donut ring stationary.  From the outside, no moving parts...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 01, 2015, 04:26:41 PM
Remember Ockham's razor"? No need to mess around with lasers. A hole in a piece of cardboard will do nicely and have an LED shine through it. The circuit diagram in Patrick's Chapter 1 page 21 should be about right.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 01, 2015, 10:20:48 PM
Remember Ockham's razor"? No need to mess around with lasers. A hole in a piece of cardboard will do nicely and have an LED shine through it. The circuit diagram in Patrick's Chapter 1 page 21 should be about right.

Are you talking about the circuit diagram below?

I cannot see the link to the flying saucer Drive Coil ON/OFF design.  Please elaborate.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 02, 2015, 02:01:59 PM
Some prototype figures.

The formula for Centrifugal Force = m*w*w*R;  where m is the moving mass; w is the angular velocity; R is the radius.

For a practical prototype, m can be 0.5 Kg, R can be 0.5 Meters.  Centrifugal Force at top can be 10 Hertz or 600rpm.  The Centrifugal Force at bottom can be 1 Hertz or 60rpm.

CFtop/CFbottom = (m*10*10*R)/(m*1*1*R) = 100.

The actual value of CFtop can be 0.5*10*10*0.5 = 25 Newtons.

For those who are not familiar with Newton, we can convert it to 2.55 kg weight.  Or the lifting force is about 2.5 Kg.  (The rotating device can generate net CF to lift 2.5 kg.)  Unbalanced wheel is great.  Unbalanced rotation is even better...

Such figures are within the technical capability of most top scientific establishments.

Flying Saucers can be developed with existing scientific technology…
 
I am sure that many UFOs are made in China or made in USA...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 02, 2015, 02:52:48 PM
Since when is force measured in Hz/rpm?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 02, 2015, 04:15:04 PM
Are you talking about the circuit diagram below?

I cannot see the link to the flying saucer Drive Coil ON/OFF design.  Please elaborate.
Sorry, No, I got this wrong. That is for use with a timing disc. (Unfortunately, the messaging on this wretched website cannot be used from my home computer or I would have advised you yesterday).

You need a Hall effect sensor, situated near the first  position. By inspection, it should be placed to switch at the right position and should be connected to a 555 circuit which will keep the current on  until  the magnet passes the second position (by turning a pot in the 555 circuit). This is all fairly bread and butter stuff. If the device is  slow running,  a reed switch would do.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 02, 2015, 09:48:55 PM
Sorry, No, I got this wrong. That is for use with a timing disc. (Unfortunately, the messaging on this wretched website cannot be used from my home computer or I would have advised you yesterday).

You need a Hall effect sensor, situated near the first  position. By inspection, it should be placed to switch at the right position and should be connected to a 555 circuit which will keep the current on  until  the magnet passes the second position (by turning a pot in the 555 circuit). This is all fairly bread and butter stuff. If the device is  slow running,  a reed switch would do.

I still prefer the design in reply 3345.  We may consider using LED instead of laser for detection of PM passing.  We need close to the perfect switching ON and OFF with different speeds.  When the PM first moves, it will need many passes through the Driver Coil to gain the high angular velocity needed.

Most pulse motors using reed switches failed in this respect.  If you look at the diagram in 3345 again, you will find that the time spent with Driver Coil ON is very different from when it is OFF. A simple oscillating switch will not do.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor is superior because it uses a "precision control" (dismantled by USA authorities before shipping to China.)

I am sure the Chinese Engineers understood the theory and redesigned something with similar capabilities...

Anti-gravity can just be unbalanced wheel in unbalanced rotation.  Divine Revelation.

A vertically mounted unbalanced wheel in unbalanced rotation as in reply 3345 will lose weight. This could be a powerful confirmation of the theory.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 03, 2015, 01:24:46 AM
Improved thoughts on DC ON and OFF.

Use repulsion and a start coil to drive PM from start position.

Strong repulsion used.  After Permanent Magnet accelerates, additional repulsion effect negligible.  Can turn OFF quickly without too much negative impact.

Simplifies design.  (Actually use the experience learned from the Tong Wheel.)

Lawrence
reply 3156 3333 (another summary post coming)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 03, 2015, 12:20:45 PM
In many of the pulse wheel designs (e.g. Tong, Bedini), the permanent magnets and the coils are set at some angle.  Such arrangements do not use the magnetic flux at the optimal.  However, with tuning, they can still show signs of overunity.

Magnetic flux is not stationary.  When another magnet is close or when there is motion, the magnetic flux will change.  It is almost impossible to analyze theoretically.  Much will rely on experiments to check the results.[b][/b]

The best example is the 225 HP Pulse Motor.

With the fifth design of the flying saucer in reply 3302, the magnetic flux may be used in a much more optimal fashion.  Thus it will provide both thrust and lead-out electromagnetic energy.  The electromagnetic energy is likely to be the electron cloud or electron motion energy already present in the magnetic materials.

Lawrence
reply 3156

Look at the diagram in reply 3321 again.

If I remember correctly, the 225 HP Pulse Motor had 9 wheels jointed together.  But a single one could only generate 5 HP.  (That was supposed to be the prototype to be shipped to Tsinghua University). 

Jointing nine 5HP wheels should only provide 45HP.  But the result was 225 HP.  This means that there are something we do not know about the magnetic or electromagnetic field.

The 225 HP Pulse Motor is an overunity device.    It is top secret.  But the flying saucer is also top secret.  If we can solve the technical problems of the flying saucer, can we solve the 225 HP Pulse Motor?

Divine Wine flows.  Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer is likely to be the UFO now popping all over.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 04, 2015, 12:41:08 AM
I am consolidating the Tsinghua University QMOGEN and the Flying Saucer information in one file for easier reference.

A  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier Platform Experiment
References:
1.   Reply 3028 at overunity.com, Milkovic 2SO thread. 
Experimental procedure
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443538/#msg443538
2.   Reply 2994
Experiment 13 configuration suggestion
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443378/#msg443378
3.   Reply 2981
Oscillating element rather than simple Unbalancing
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443220/#msg443220
4.   Reply 2960
First attempt on estimating the material cost (less than HKD3,000)
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442824/#msg442824
5.   Reply 2941
Technical Presentation to Bright Students
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442464/#msg442464
6.   Reply 2943
Last attempt in the explanation of lead-out energy
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442470/#msg442470
7.   Reply 2953
Presentation in Chinese
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442672/#msg442672
8.   Reply 2870
Explain reply 2826
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg441896/#msg441896
9.   Reply 2826
Milkovic 2SO is a lead-out Energy Device
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg441078/#msg441078

B.  The Flying Saucer Information
1.  reply 3045
Theory of the Flying Saucer introduction
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg443810/#msg443810
A simple mechanism is shown in reply 3065

http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg444284/#msg444284

2.  reply 3092
Theory of the Flying Saucer completed
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg444780/#msg444780
3. reply 3094
Divine purpose of my knowledge?
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg444810/#msg444810
4.  reply 3113
No need to eject material into space
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445088/#msg445088
5. reply 3102
Leading out magnetic or electromagnetic energy
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445265/#msg445265
6. reply 3302
Fifth design of the Flying Saucer
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg450886/#msg450886
7. reply 3123
Predictions
http://www.overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg445278/#msg445278
8. reply 3352
ON/OFF control thoughts
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg452087/#msg452087


This post will be updated as necessary.  It will help the new comer to focus on the appropriate technical information.

Lawrence Tseung
reply 3354
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 05, 2015, 07:58:41 AM
Eighth Design of the Flying Saucer Engine.

Use Magnetic Repulsion.

Is it within the capability of the top Chinese or USA Engineers???

The two presentation files have been updated and attached.

Lawrence
reply3354
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 06, 2015, 12:05:35 AM
Prayer: "What should be the right thing to do?"

Guidance: "Serve the Divine Wine!"

Prayer: "Should I continue posting in this and other Internet Forms?  Should I share with friends and relatives?  Should I share it with strangers?  Should I use the News Media?  Should I approach the Academic Institutions?  Should I approach the Venture Capitalists?  Should I inform the various governments?"

Guidance: "What is your worry?  You have the Divine Wine.  Nobody have proposed the eighth design of the flying saucer yet?  It is absolute scientific certainty.  USA and Chinese Military Institutions must have built it or similar.  They keep it as top secret.  Their goal is to benefit their own Nation first.  What is your goal?"

Prayer: "Thank you for the Guidance."

The UFO believers will...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58kLVo1AJuE

Lawrence
Reply 3354 3355 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: markdansie on June 06, 2015, 01:41:12 AM
Hi Lawrence
I hope you are well.
I travel to HK every month and China at least twice a year.
Do you have any technology or know of any that can demonstrate even one watt of free or excess energy?
I am happy to meet up with anyone or you to see such a demonstration even under an NDA


I remember once talking to you on Skype from the USA where you wanted me to see a technology you claimed was overunity, unfortunately it was not. I was under NDA which I respect so I can not discuss why.
Mark



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 06, 2015, 03:14:09 AM
Hi Lawrence
I hope you are well.
I travel to HK every month and China at least twice a year.
Do you have any technology or know of any that can demonstrate even one watt of free or excess energy?
I am happy to meet up with anyone or you to see such a demonstration even under an NDA


I remember once talking to you on Skype from the USA where you wanted me to see a technology you claimed was overunity, unfortunately it was not. I was under NDA which I respect so I can not discuss why.
Mark

I have given up developing prototypes myself.

Others in Hong Kong may want to show their prototypes.  Some already have financial resources.  Some may want to meet serious investors.   I shall encourage them to contact you directly via this forum.

You are welcome to develop the lead-out energy flying saucer.  You may have a team of experts with the necessary knowhow.  There will be no patents from me and there will be no royalties to pay.  Please donate 10% of profits to a charity of your choice when you succeed.

Share the benefits with the World.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 06, 2015, 08:17:20 PM
Eighth Design of the Flying Saucer Engine.

Use Magnetic Repulsion.

Is it within the capability of the top Chinese or USA Engineers???
 
The two presentation files have been updated and attached.
 
Lawrence
reply 3354 3355

Had a detailed discussion of the eighth design of the Flying Saucer in reply 3355.  Some comments:
1. The most difficult engineering is the capsule containing the permanent magnet.  The capsule needs to travel around the donut at high velocity.  One engineering company in China is looking into this.
2. The exact timing of when to turn the DC ON and OFF appears to be a solvable problem.  Magnetic repulsion is recommended.
3. The remaining control problems appear to be manageable.

Will China stop such research within China as it may be regarded as top secret?  Would the effort and resources devoted be wasted?

May do a good youtube video first.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 07, 2015, 01:19:03 AM
Can a Nation such as India build the lead-out energy flying saucer now?

There is enough theoretical design knowledge posted.  An Indian Company with a power plant listened to my presentation months ago. They helped to fund some Milkovic 2SO development in India.  They have good connection with the India Government

Will the Jewish Group who has been following my work for years do it?  They have direct contact with the Israel Government.  They were one of the groups who told me that their QMOGEN prototype in Hong Kong was successful.

My gut feel is that some Nations other than USA and China also developed some form of flying saucer technology.  Some may be putting resources into it now.  The new paradigm of lead-out energy flying saucer is inevitable. May the Nations put them into uses that will benefit the World.  Amen.

Lawrence Tseung
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 07, 2015, 01:35:34 AM
sixth design or variation of the Flying Saucer engine.

Some engineers worried about the complexity of a fast moving magnet inside a donut or circular track.  Some also mentioned that air core is much less efficient compared with ferrite core as far as electromagnet is concerned.

Here is a possible variation.  It is unlikely to be the last...

I am sure that the USA and Chinese "Top Secret" establishments already have better designs.

Look at the sixth design on reply 3330.  Compare it with the 225 HP Pulse Motor.  If our Tong Wheel used the accurate position sensing ON/OFF pulsing technology, we might have had much better results - not just a few watts and doubtful overunity.  We used magnetic repulsion but we used air coils which were much, much less efficient than soft iron core coils. A sad case of a poor and unskilled scientist wasted his time and limited resources.  The lesson - stick to theory.

The 225 HP Pulse Motor Collector Coils collected more energy than the energy supplied by the Drive Coils.  Some of the energy is the lead-out electron motion or electron cloud energy already present.  The electromagnetic flux spread everywhere and the 225 HP Pulse Motor is not a CLOSED system.  It could easily self-run after starting.

It is very probable that the eighth design of the flying saucer is indeed a lead-out energy flying saucer.  It can fly anywhere with no supply of chemical fuel.  Top Secret?  Alien Technology?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 07, 2015, 08:09:13 PM
Question: “How can you be sure that your eighth design of the Flying Saucer has not been thought out by someone else already?”

Answer: “It is in the simplicity.  The theory cannot be wrong.  The Centrifugal Force increases according to the formula CF=m*w*w*R.  The faster the angular velocity, the stronger will be the Centrifugal Force.  The design ensures that the angular velocity at the top part of the diagram is much higher than that at the bottom part.”

Question: “If it is so simple, why haven’t someone thought of it before?  Even a housewife with no formal training in Physics can understand.”

Answer: “The normal path for an inventor is to look at the patent databases.  My search revealed no prior art.  If there were former art, many people in this forum would have posted the information.”

Question: “Could it be top secret and the Governments prevented it from publishing?”

Answer: “Possible.  But my disclosure may force the Governments to disclose the top secret to benefit the World.”

Question: “Is there any possibility that your theory of the flying saucer may be wrong?”

Answer: “Absolutely not.  Simplicity provides absolute clarity and certainty.”

*** The quality and quantity of meaningful economic activities to be generated by the lead-out energy flying saucer paradigm will exceed anything humans ever experienced.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 08, 2015, 12:54:17 AM
2 new patents of Veljko Milkovic!
 
Mechanical hammer with a pendulum and permanent magnets

RS 1420 U1 - MP-2014/0036
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images...i/Patent30.pdf (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.veljkomilkovic.com%2FImages%2FPatenti%2FPatent30.pdf)

Oscillating mechanism with a two-arm lever and pendulum bob hanging on the elastic tapes

RS 1421 U1 - MP-2014/0037
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images...i/Patent31.pdf (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.veljkomilkovic.com%2FImages%2FPatenti%2FPatent31.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 08, 2015, 10:18:27 PM
2 new patents of Veljko Milkovic!
 
Mechanical hammer with a pendulum and permanent magnets

RS 1420 U1 - MP-2014/0036
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images...i/Patent30.pdf (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.veljkomilkovic.com%2FImages%2FPatenti%2FPatent30.pdf)

Oscillating mechanism with a two-arm lever and pendulum bob hanging on the elastic tapes

RS 1421 U1 - MP-2014/0037
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images...i/Patent31.pdf (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.veljkomilkovic.com%2FImages%2FPatenti%2FPatent31.pdf)

I have to admit that the Milkovic 2SO information really helped.  I relooked at it in Sept 2014 in reply 2179.
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg417148/#msg417148

In a couple of months, the eighth design of the Flying Saucer appeared.

Development in the "open" with all the cheers and jeers...

Thanks to Milkovic et al.

*** Research work is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.  Which individual, organization or Nation possesses such qualities?

Lawrence Tseung
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 09, 2015, 06:26:56 PM
If a design is based on an IMAGINARY (centrifugal) force, the result will be equally IMAGINARY.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 10, 2015, 12:18:59 AM
If a design is based on an IMAGINARY (centrifugal) force, the result will be equally IMAGINARY.

Was Goliath killed by imaginary forces?

When an athlete swirls and throws the chain ball, does the chain ball fly out at high velocity?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on June 10, 2015, 07:14:14 AM
Was Goliath killed by imaginary forces?

When an athlete swirls and throws the chain ball, does the chain ball fly out at high velocity?
LOL, in the legend, King David like your athlete stood on this thing called earth.  Earth being quite a bit more massive than David and his stone, moved imperceptibly as he swung his sling-shot.  But maybe you think that is some sort of state secret.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 11, 2015, 01:21:01 AM
When  a secret is revealed, it is no longer a secret.

When it becomes a piece of information, it is a matter of how an individual, organization or Nation uses such information.

My humble goal is for them to use this information to benefit the entire human race.  Forget about the wars, conquests etc.

Enjoy the Divine Wine.

Lawrence
Reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 11, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
I have to admit that the Milkovic 2SO information really helped.  I relooked at it in Sept 2014 in reply 2179.
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg417148/#msg417148

In a couple of months, the eighth design of the Flying Saucer appeared.

Development in the "open" with all the cheers and jeers...

Thanks to Milkovic et al.

*** Research work is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.  Which individual, organization or Nation possesses such qualities?

Lawrence Tseung
reply 3354 3355

One remaining technical question is -

The Drive Coil needs energy.  The Collector Coil receives energy.  What is the best arrangement to exchange such energy?

Can the Collector Coil receive more energy - from the leading out of electron motion or electron cloud energy???

Lawrence
Reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 11, 2015, 01:31:54 AM
"Was Goliath killed by imaginary forces?
When an athlete swirls and throws the chain ball, does the chain ball fly out at high velocity?"
No he was allegedly killed by a stone that was propelled by CENTRIPETAL force, a REAL force.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 11, 2015, 03:27:07 AM
"Was Goliath killed by imaginary forces?
When an athlete swirls and throws the chain ball, does the chain ball fly out at high velocity?"
No he was allegedly killed by a stone that was propelled by CENTRIPETAL force, a REAL force.

Sure.  You can argue on the use of the various words.  Some Christians call it the "King David Sling" force.  Use whatever term that makes you happy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 11, 2015, 03:34:29 AM
This is not an exercise in semantics; centrifugal and centripetal forces are at 90 degrees to each other; centrifugal is imaginary; centripetal is real.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on June 11, 2015, 05:48:35 AM
Hi Lawrence,

The forces aren't imaginary as long as you stay away from the term centrifugal. :)

Mark II Slingatron Test Launch of 1/2 Pound Payload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snYAbkGWyzQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snYAbkGWyzQ)

Portable Mini Slingatron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXKb75boOMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXKb75boOMg)

For power generation replace ball bearing with neo sphere and direct it through a plastic pipe wrapped with coils into cap bank. At the end have a copper pipe to slow the neo sphere down with eddy currents.

Edit: Image source: Slingatron - A Mechanical Hypervelocity Mass Accelerator by Derek a Tidman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on June 11, 2015, 08:09:00 AM
Hi Lawrence,

The forces aren't imaginary as long as you stay away from the term centrifugal. :)

Mark II Slingatron Test Launch of 1/2 Pound Payload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snYAbkGWyzQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snYAbkGWyzQ)

Portable Mini Slingatron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXKb75boOMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXKb75boOMg)

For power generation replace ball bearing with neo sphere and direct it through a plastic pipe wrapped with coils into cap bank. At the end have a copper pipe to slow the neo sphere down with eddy currents.

Edit: Image source: Slingatron - A Mechanical Hypervelocity Mass Accelerator by Derek a Tidman
Note that in order to convey force into the sling, the person swinging it must also exert force against the ground that person stands upon.  Absent some much larger mass to work against, then the person counter rotates versus the slung mass preserving the angular momentum of the system.  The person can only change their own momentum by changing the mass of their local system.  If they eject mass, then we call such a machine a rocket, and we call the ejected material rocket propellant.  Lawrence's idea literally has not got a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 11, 2015, 10:50:59 AM
Hi Lawrence,

The forces aren't imaginary as long as you stay away from the term centrifugal. :)

Mark II Slingatron Test Launch of 1/2 Pound Payload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snYAbkGWyzQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snYAbkGWyzQ)

Portable Mini Slingatron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXKb75boOMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXKb75boOMg)

For power generation replace ball bearing with neo sphere and direct it through a plastic pipe wrapped with coils into cap bank. At the end have a copper pipe to slow the neo sphere down with eddy currents.

Edit: Image source: Slingatron - A Mechanical Hypervelocity Mass Accelerator by Derek a Tidman

Let us use the term "force due to circular motion".  We can still use the term CF to denote the force...

We can say that the flying saucer can be powered by the difference in CF force due to difference in angular velocity at the top and bottom part of the rotation.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on June 11, 2015, 01:18:26 PM
Let us use the term "force due to circular motion".  We can still use the term CF to denote the force...

We can say that the flying saucer can be powered by the difference in CF force due to difference in angular velocity at the top and bottom part of the rotation.
You can say such things and you will be wrong.  You cannot beat First Principles.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 11, 2015, 03:07:01 PM

For power generation replace ball bearing with neo sphere and direct it through a plastic pipe wrapped with coils into cap bank. At the end have a copper pipe to slow the neo sphere down with eddy currents.

this seems an annoying way to calculate the energies.

Why not point the thing vertically upwards and observe the height the ball reaches.

Energy in = motor's voltage x current and time.

Energy out =  Mass . G . Height

(You could do it by measuring velocity and K.E. but that is trickier)

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 11, 2015, 10:52:54 PM
Design Document in Chinese By Mr. C.C. Yuen.

The document is not an engineering specification yet.  More work needs to be done.  It is better to let some engineers shine.

Let them share in the serving of the Divine Wine.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 12, 2015, 10:30:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3swu_lC-7zc

Nazi flying saucer development in War World II.

Our new Flying Saucer will benefit the World.  The theory is very easy to understand.  King David Sling.

One Question: "Can Hong Kong build a Flying Saucer similar to that in reply 3355?"



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 13, 2015, 01:47:52 AM
List the advantages of developing the Flying Saucer.

1. No need to move air or eject hot gases.
2. Can fly in outer space as well as on Earth.
3. Quick turns using CF forces.  Star war defenses become useless.
4. Vertical take-off and landing.  Better than helicopters.
5. No need for airports.
6. Every home can have a flying saucer in the garage or balcony.
7. Freedom to travel across oceans or National boundaries.
8. Use of lead-out energy that is clean and plentiful.
9. Stimulate the creativity of the Citizens.  Another industrial revolution?
10. No need to conquer other nations for resources.  No more wars?
11. Knowledge and technology can be shared to benefit all.  Share the Divine Wine.
12. Give rise to other technologies such traffic control, auto-pilots etc.  Scientific boundary expanded.
13. Travel to outer space and contact aliens.

Which Nation has the financial, technical and attitude resources to lead such development?  Do we need to wait for USA or China?

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: PIH123 on June 13, 2015, 03:29:10 AM
List the advantages of developing the Flying Saucer.

1. No need to move air or eject hot gases.
2. Can fly in outer space as well as on Earth.
3. Quick turns using CF forces.  Star war defenses become useless.
4. Vertical take-off and landing.  Better than helicopters.
5. No need for airports.
6. Every home can have a flying saucer in the garage or balcony.
7. Freedom to travel across oceans or National boundaries.
8. Use of lead-out energy that is clean and plentiful.
9. Stimulate the creativity of the Citizens.  Another industrial revolution?
10. No need to conquer other nations for resources.  No more wars?
11. Knowledge and technology can be shared to benefit all.  Share the Divine Wine.
12. Give rise to other technologies such traffic control, auto-pilots etc.  Scientific boundary expanded.
13. Travel to outer space and contact aliens.

Which Nation has the financial, technical and attitude resources to lead such development?  Do we need to wait for USA or China?

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355


Hi Larry,

You might want to get in touch with ATOM1 over at
http://overunity.com/14003/breaking-news-finally-a-real-free-energy-magnet-motor/msg452720/#new (http://overunity.com/14003/breaking-news-finally-a-real-free-energy-magnet-motor/msg452720/#new)

He is all about flying saucers and has government backing.  Honestly, I am not joking, I saw it on the internet.


And if you will indulge me, I would just like to add 1 dis-advantages of developing the Flying Saucer.

1. They will never work  using any of your ideas (unbalanced or not)

Pete
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 13, 2015, 12:19:52 PM

Hi Larry,

You might want to get in touch with ATOM1 over at
http://overunity.com/14003/breaking-news-finally-a-real-free-energy-magnet-motor/msg452720/#new (http://overunity.com/14003/breaking-news-finally-a-real-free-energy-magnet-motor/msg452720/#new)

He is all about flying saucers and has government backing.  Honestly, I am not joking, I saw it on the internet.


And if you will indulge me, I would just like to add 1 dis-advantages of developing the Flying Saucer.

1. They will never work  using any of your ideas (unbalanced or not)

Pete

IT TRULY WORRIES ME THAT THE TALANT HERE NEED TO VIEW A FREE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY ???? Let alone a daft German one no disrespect to the inventor ..... I have a small government grant to build these generators in the UK but that money is way short of setting up a production line and one at a time is hard work..... Anyone interested in building a million watt one pump it to the grid and off sale the cheap electricity ten years in advance on the futures markets  ???? I hate getting down to boring details the last part is the land site ???

I want to build a centre of excellence for all things that make us tick flying saucers cellular regeneration facilities ET contact communication post ect ect .......................................................

I once had 300 staff it all got a bit to much so I gave it up and went into research I am 48 now what more can I say ........

Free energy that my friends is very simple indeed, but the mind set of many researchers of its all mine or I need to see it to believe it or there going to kill you or the cant be bothered  and the paranoid ones with a lot of the jealous envious ones and the liars cheats mind manipulators criminals are far more dodgy that the men in black hahahah ..

Now who is it here that said he can build anything ?????????????


Regards

ATOM1
 

http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg452728/#msg452728

Check out reply 3354 3355.

May be UK can join the race.  USA and China may like another competitor.

*** And if you will indulge me, I would just like to add 1 dis-advantages of developing the Flying Saucer.

1. They will never work  using any of your ideas (unbalanced or not)
***
I am sure that some flying saucers made in China or/and made in USA are flying.  Are they using differences in  CF forces???  Truth will come out.  If UK and other Nations join the race, I doubt that China or USA can keep the top secret for long...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on June 13, 2015, 01:44:38 PM
Why do I have a feeling that someone has forgotten to put the tin foil hat on?
Lawrence, you should put that hat on right away.



Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 13, 2015, 03:32:16 PM
Forces due to circular motion.

It looks like some forum members are not too familiar with forces due to circular motion.  Hope the attached diagram helps.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 14, 2015, 12:44:26 AM
Difference between in kindergarten and graduated from kindergarten.

In kindergarten, one listens to everything.  One treats every piece of information as valuable.

After graduation, one selects.

I know that there are flying saucers made in USA and made in China.  The stories of UFOs are not all hoaxes.

I know that the 225 HP Pulse Power motor funded by Andrew Wong of Hong Kong existed.  I know that the Tsinghua University QMOGEN was operational since 1996.  I can explain their operations.

I can design a flying saucer using the King David Sling technology.

All the useless and irrelevant comments and posts will not be "absorbed" or considered.

When will USA or China disclose their top secret?
  When will another Nation do the research and demonstrate the lead-out energy flying saucer?  The new paradigm is inevitable.  It was similar to the Internet 40 years ago.  The visionaries could see and created the light.  After 40 years, almost all can see the light.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Hope on June 14, 2015, 09:19:31 AM
now if only we could get schematics for that technology my friend
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on June 14, 2015, 07:40:42 PM
Forces due to circular motion.

It looks like some forum members are not too familiar with forces due to circular motion.  Hope the attached diagram helps.
Most of us knows perfectly well how this work, but I don't think you understand this very well.
Study forces as much as you want, but it is energy we need. Force do not produce anything.
The reacive forces you find in a spinning disc cannot do work. Google reacive power, or reactive force.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on June 14, 2015, 07:43:00 PM
Difference between in kindergarten and graduated from kindergarten.

In kindergarten, one listens to everything.  One treats every piece of information as valuable.

After graduation, one selects.

I know that there are flying saucers made in USA and made in China.  The stories of UFOs are not all hoaxes.

I know that the 225 HP Pulse Power motor funded by Andrew Wong of Hong Kong existed.  I know that the Tsinghua University QMOGEN was operational since 1996.  I can explain their operations.

I can design a flying saucer using the King David Sling technology.

All the useless and irrelevant comments and posts will not be "absorbed" or considered.

When will USA or China disclose their top secret?
  When will another Nation do the research and demonstrate the lead-out energy flying saucer?  The new paradigm is inevitable.  It was similar to the Internet 40 years ago.  The visionaries could see and created the light.  After 40 years, almost all can see the light.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Exacly. That is why we do not absorb or consider your post. Thanks for reminding us.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 15, 2015, 12:27:08 AM
Discussion on Sunday

Person A: "The King David Sling theory is simple.  It is the engineering that prevents the average garage mechanic from building it."

Person B: "What happens if we get everyone discussing it -  Universities, Colleges, Schools, Machine Shops, Governments, aircraft companies etc.?"

Person A: "We can get the University professors treat Flying Saucer design as student projects.  The bright students of the World will come up with all sorts of ideas.  The theory is simple."

Person C: "According to Lawrence Tseung, such flying saucers have been built by USA and China.  Why should we waste time and resources?"

Person A: "According to Lawrence Tseung, the 225 HP Pulse Motor and the Tsinghua QMOGEN were working decades ago.  But they became top secret and could not come out to benefit the World."

Person B: "Getting publicity is easy in the Internet World.  Getting dozens of debunkers to scream and create a controversy is within reach.  Some get paid.  Create an atmosphere similar to the "magnificent men and their flying machines" will be fun.  The working flying saucer will emerge."

Tseung: "Thanks for the input."

Divine Wine flows.  Many home-made wines or drinks will also emerge.  Some may not be good for your health.  Use your judgment...

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 15, 2015, 12:49:48 AM
.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 15, 2015, 04:48:30 PM

The reacive forces you find in a spinning disc cannot do work. Google reacive power, or reactive force.

Reactive forces?

Are they analogous to reactive power in electrical circuits?

Would you expand on mechanical reactive forces and power for us?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 16, 2015, 09:04:15 PM
Ninth Design of the Flying Saucer

Since the Magnet in a Donut Tube engineering is difficult, the ninth design makes it easier for the garage mechanic.

1. The normal wheel type arrangement is used.
2. The Magnet is repelled by the Drive Coil to obtain additional energy and velocity.  One or more collectors will drain the energy and slow down the velocity.
3. Starting can be via rotation of the axle.
4. The difference in angular velocity will give higher CF force on top.
5. Net force is upwards.  (Net weight expected to decrease when the unbalanced wheels spins with higher angular velocity at top than at bottom.)

Can a garage mechanic really build such a device?  Will some Hong Kong or China machine shops do it?

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 17, 2015, 03:22:52 PM
This design owes a fair amount to the Robert Adams motor.

As a generator, it is interesting - particularly if you reclaim collapsed field energy - but I cannot see any shaft wobble propelling anything.

I think you should sideline all this space ship stuff and stick to energy generators where they is likely to be more mileage.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 18, 2015, 02:01:28 AM
This design owes a fair amount to the Robert Adams motor.

As a generator, it is interesting - particularly if you reclaim collapsed field energy - but I cannot see any shaft wobble propelling anything.

I think you should sideline all this space ship stuff and stick to energy generators where they is likely to be more mileage.

Since I am not building any prototype myself, I want to stimulate the "students" to use their imaginations.  The lead-out energy flying saucer is a very powerful stimulant.

You are encouraged to use your own imagination also.  The Internet is successful because of the many thousand innovators imagining all possible approaches and applications.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 19, 2015, 10:48:11 PM
From the discussion with an American:

American: "You should not disclose any technology related to the Flying Saucer.  It should remain top secret."

Tseung: "Why?  The Technology will benefit the World."

American: "It will defeat all Star War Defenses. Nuclear bomb carrying flying saucers might get to American Soil."

Tseung: "We do not want to use Lead-out Energy Flying Saucers for military purposes."

American: "You are not in power.  There might be leaders such as Hitler in one of the Nations.  If he gets hold of this technology and the nuclear bombs..."

Tseung: "USA is unlikely to disclose the top secret...  It may send the debunkers to discredit the scientists and engineers.  The theory is out and the technology is within the capability of many Nations.  We must turn this into peaceful use to benefit the World."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 20, 2015, 01:56:49 AM
I shall use the attached form to help to promote the spread of the Flying Saucer Knowledge.

The presenter will be given the presentation material and the attached form.  He/she will receive HK$100 for every form with 100 signatures.  I can allocate HK$1,000 for this exercise.  This means at least 1,000 persons in Hong Kong would have heard the presentation. 

The completed forms will be posted here.

Any ones wants to be a presenter?   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 20, 2015, 08:07:25 AM
Question: "Will the Chinese Government be upset if the top secret is revealed?"

Answer: "USA already knows that China has full knowledge of the 225 HP Pulse Motor, the QMOGEN that could increase INPUT 30 times and the Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer."

Question: "Knowledge is one thing.  The actual development stage is another."

Answer: "It is a matter of time when the top secret is revealed.  China is selecting the right time."

The right time is likely to be - a third Nation announces the demonstration...
(An unlikely candidate may be Philippines, Thailand or Indonesia.  The domestic helpers gather by the thousands every weekend.  Some can understand the King David Sling scenario. )

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 20, 2015, 09:53:15 AM
This design owes a fair amount to the Robert Adams motor.

As a generator, it is interesting - particularly if you reclaim collapsed field energy - but I cannot see any shaft wobble propelling anything.

I think you should sideline all this space ship stuff and stick to energy generators where they is likely to be more mileage.

We all learn from the past.  However, the key in this case is the timing of the exact pulse to drive the permanent magnet.  Looks like we need to seek more.

Patrick Kelly's Book chapter 2.1 gave a good description of the Adams Motor.  Where else should we look?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 20, 2015, 04:08:45 PM
SO STOP TALKING AND BUILD SOMETHING, Lawrence. This is more utter nonsense.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 20, 2015, 05:33:11 PM

Patrick Kelly's Book chapter 2.1 gave a good description of the Adams Motor.  Where else should we look?
On the  next page. That is the key drawing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 21, 2015, 12:49:01 AM
On the  next page. That is the key drawing.

The late Robert Adams might not have found the key.  The key, I believe, is the precise moment  to produce the high repulsion.  Patrick Kelly tried to find an alternative to avoid the high precision.  (We did the same stupid thing with the Tong Wheel.)  The 225 HP Pulse Motor did better.

The attached diagram is a familiar experiment done by many researchers.

Why would the same Input of Energy produce over 1,000 times the repulsion force?  Can the recovered Output Energy be more than Input under the appropriate conditions?

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 21, 2015, 10:39:47 AM
Ninth Design of the Flying Saucer

Since the Magnet in a Donut Tube engineering is difficult, the ninth design makes it easier for the garage mechanic.

1. The normal wheel type arrangement is used.
2. The Magnet is repelled by the Drive Coil to obtain additional energy and velocity.  One or more collectors will drain the energy and slow down the velocity.
3. Starting can be via rotation of the axle.
4. The difference in angular velocity will give higher CF force on top.
5. Net force is upwards.  (Net weight expected to decrease when the unbalanced wheels spins with higher angular velocity at top than at bottom.)

Can a garage mechanic really build such a device?  Will some Hong Kong or China machine shops do it?

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355

The ninth design is better in the following ways:
1.  There is no need for the permanent magnet to travel at high velocity inside a tube.  There will be no friction nor heat problems.
2.  It is relatively easy to change the permanent magnet that may be rod shaped. It may be clamped or have holes to provide solid mounting.
3.  The arm can be rotated and started by hand.
4.  There is no need for precision engineering of the donut.

There is still the need for precision pulsing to provide the repulsion.  But this may be at a fixed position when the magnet passes.  Let someone suggest such a mechanism...

Open development has its virtues.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 22, 2015, 12:47:07 AM
The precision mechanism challenge.

The same problem arises again.  Eight years ago, we used the proximity switch in the Tong Wheel to provide a solution.  That turned out to be a "mistake".  The approximate solution a sort of worked and much time and resources were wasted.

This time, we shall seek the best solution first before any "build".  There is no pressure to get a working device.  Many UFOs are flying.  Many QMOGENs are working.

I am sure that China and USA have solved this problem in their top secret projects.  The 225 HP Pulse Motor solved this problem too.

Can any forum member meet this challenge and benefit the World?

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 22, 2015, 03:23:23 AM
Almost any rotary encoder would do; of course it's a waste of time.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 22, 2015, 03:27:28 AM
Chinese Student:  "The Flying Saucer theory is very simple.  The Chinese translation of centripetal force is "force towards center".  The Chinese translation of centrifugal force is "force away from center".  I can easily understand that when you swing the magnet very fast in a circle, the force away from center is much higher."

Almost all Chinese Students understood the King David Sling scenario right away.  Are there any forum member not following the King David Sling scenario?

If the theory is this simple, how can USA and China keep the top secret?

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 22, 2015, 10:47:34 PM

For Lawrence's specific application, a rotary shaft position encoder with 4000 line per revolution resolution and a simple microprocessor control (Arduino for example) would be better, I think. Digital is always better, isn't it? :)

The rotary encoder wheels, kits, sensor/interface etc are available from USDigital and aren't too expensive.
http://www.usdigital.com/products?gclid=COLkh_Wc7MUCFYoYHwodRQQAcw (http://www.usdigital.com/products?gclid=COLkh_Wc7MUCFYoYHwodRQQAcw)

So the position of the rotating part can be read to 1/4000 of a complete revolution by the Arduino, and the pulse edges can be set to occur at any specific line count in that range by a couple of simple potentiometers connected to the Arduino. The necessary program code is almost trivial to implement, very basic line counting and analog-digital read-write statements using ordinary potentiometers to set the pulse edges. Or if timing and dwell need to be varied automatically with rotor speed or other parameters, the Arduino can be programmed accordingly to handle that.

The technology proposed by TK may be a possible solution.  Any comments?

Any other proposals?  Have we got all the major pieces of the puzzle identified?

The Drive Coil needs energy.  Can the Collector Coils provide that (with extra left over?)?
If we use ferrite core, the efficiency can go up over 1,000 times.  Can we be using the already available electron motion or electron cloud energy?

Which Nation will implement it other than USA and China?

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on June 23, 2015, 03:46:46 PM

The technology proposed by TK may be a possible solution.  Any comments?

Not "may be" but "is".

A bit over exotic. Remember Occam's Razor. Most people would be happy with a Hall effect switch costing a few shillings and a couple of extra components. Or whatever is specified for the Robert Adams device.

It is a simple problem with a simple solution. There is no need for mind bending accuracy or resolution in order to establish the merit or otherwise of the basic concept. In my view, as a variant of the Adams, it is interesting. As interstellar propulsion, it is dead in the water. There will be an out of balance wobble but to do anything with it, you will need a ring the size of the Large Hadron Collider, a magnet the size of Ben Nevis and a few nuclear power stations to drive it. You'd be better off with a TT Brown type set up with a rather large array of photovoltaic cells. At least that would work if there is a nearby a star.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 25, 2015, 02:28:38 AM
Not "may be" but "is".

A bit over exotic. Remember Occam's Razor. Most people would be happy with a Hall effect switch costing a few shillings and a couple of extra components. Or whatever is specified for the Robert Adams device.

It is a simple problem with a simple solution. There is no need for mind bending accuracy or resolution in order to establish the merit or otherwise of the basic concept. In my view, as a variant of the Adams, it is interesting. As interstellar propulsion, it is dead in the water. There will be an out of balance wobble but to do anything with it, you will need a ring the size of the Large Hadron Collider, a magnet the size of Ben Nevis and a few nuclear power stations to drive it. You'd be better off with a TT Brown type set up with a rather large array of photovoltaic cells. At least that would work if there is a nearby a star.

@Paul-R,

You are right.  In the Pulsing Circuit, the low speed is the deciding factor.  If the top angular velocity is 600rpm and the bottom is 60 rpm, the consideration of the Pulsing Circuit is the 60 rpm.

The resulting rpm is much closer to 120-130 rpm as most of the time is spent in the low speed.

This makes the design even simpler.  May be the Garage Mechanics really have a chance.

Paul-R and other forum members - continue the useful comments.

We still need to solve the problem of supplying the energy to the Pulse (Drive) Coil – using the energy from the Collector Coils.  If using the right ferrite core and circuit, we can collect more energy than supplied, the lead-out energy flying saucer will be a reality.

Not doing or funding any builds by me turns out to be the right thing.  Now, the top engineering entities of most Nations have a chance to shine.

It will be useful to do a theoretical design using a 1 meter diameter wheel, 1Kg Magnet and top rpm at 600. Can any forum member post it?  Or should we wait for one of the Hong Kong Students?

Can USA and China still keep the top secret?

Lawrence
Reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 25, 2015, 01:47:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haurcUcDiiA

Tesla also thought about and patented a flying saucer design. 

Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer is not a dream. 

Comments at lunch: "The King David Sling explanation is simple.  KISS."

The updated presentation is attached.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 26, 2015, 02:48:43 PM
Meeting with a former physics teacher.

Teacher: "I never expect the theory of the Flying Saucer is so simple. "

Tseung: "That is why the Christians call it the King David Sling Technology.  It existed thousands of years ago."

Teacher: "UFO is no longer a mystery."

Tseung: "Any Nation can build."

Teacher: "It may even replace the gasoline engine.  It can be used in cars.  There will be no pollution.  It may be a competitor to electric cars."

Tseung: "It is a super set of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.  No external source of energy is needed.  It uses the electron motion or electron cloud energy already present.  A ferrite core magnet can produce magnetism 1,000 times stronger than an air coil magnet with the same current."

Teacher: "I do not mind reading the new Physics Textbooks.  I hope that they include the lead-out energy flying saucer."

Share the Divine Wine.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 26, 2015, 02:49:24 PM
Meeting with a former physics teacher continued.

Teacher: "I am sure that we can build a flying saucer with the proper financial support."

Tseung: "I shall let others shine.  I do not want to take the job of engineers."

Teacher: "You have done enough.  Your tomb will have the words - Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer."

Tseung: "I have decided to scatter my ashes in the ocean.  Just let the textbooks carry the words - Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer."

Teacher: "The Internet will have such words soon."

Spread the word and let the World rejoice.

Found the following posted in April 4, 2010:
http://forum.keshefoundation.org/forum/the-keshe-forum/archive-of-the-keshe-forum/186-chinese-flying-saucers-ready-go-now

More and more pieces are on the chess board now. 

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 26, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
Question:  How would the lead-out energy flying saucer technology affect the space programs of USA and China?

Answer: "There is no urgency to continue the present technology of rockets and carrying fuel to come back."

Question: "Is this the reason why NASA and the Chinese Space Programs appear to have lost momentum?"

Answer: "Your guest is as good as mine."

Some private groups interested in space travel such as http://www.virgingalactic.com/ will also be affected.

Some fun videos in the past
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXz4tzWk3xY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGtSxDo2jbk

The King David Sling technology was demonstrated 7 years ago.

Resonance with gain in energy? - no battery.  Just capacitor, frequency shifted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpbVzvM7kk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJCe86-vCv0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3sSus1-B4






Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 27, 2015, 03:34:13 PM
Meeting with Mr. Lee Cheung Kin, the other part of Lee-Tseung.

Lee: "You have graduated from kindergarten.  The progress is much faster than I expected.  The Chinese and USA Military Institutes may even learn something from the posts."

Tseung: "You are the first to raise the possibility of leading-out gravitational energy via the Pulsed Pendulum.  That started the research.  It took us over 10 years to reach this stage."

Lee: "I hope to see a working prototype.  Keep me informed."

The USA and China Military already have Flying Saucers - are they using our theory?'

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 28, 2015, 12:05:47 AM
The following experiment will be done to demonstrate the leading-out of magnetic or electromagnetic energy.

In case a, Air Core Coil is used to provide the magnetic repulsion to send the magnet upwards.  The Input electrical power can be measured.  The height reached by the magnet can be measured.

In case b, Ferrite Core Coil is used to provide the magnetic repulsion.  We can try to use the same Input electrical power.  The height reached by the magnet is expected to be higher.

In case c, an additional magnet is placed below the coil.  The height reached by the magnet is expected to be highest.

It is quite likely that the potential energy gained by the magnet in case b and c is much higher than the supplied Input Power
.  Does this mean Output Energy is greater than Input Energy or overunity?  Or is it a demonstration of leading-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy?

Who will do this experiment first and post the results in this thread and youtube?

The air core coil experiment (case a) was posted on youtube 6 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3As-tmCQU

God Bless.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 28, 2015, 12:23:46 AM
Get of your butt and do the work yourself.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 28, 2015, 01:54:46 AM
Get of your butt and do the work yourself.

The painful lesson learned is - let the good experimental scientists and engineers shine.  They are much better in measuring INPUT Electrical Power and comparing with the potential energy gained.  They are likely to have better DSOs that can measure input power accurately.

If the potential energy gained is more than the input electrical power, leading-out magnetic or electromagnetic energy is a certainty.   Let others claim the credit.

Let others also serve the Divine Wine.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 28, 2015, 02:05:47 AM
and let others look like fools when, not if, they fail time after time. You can always claim that THEY screwed up.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 28, 2015, 12:34:41 PM
One more additional experiment.

Use of partial ferrite core.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 28, 2015, 07:52:40 PM
https://youtu.be/yKUH32c5jqQ

The Joule Thief with a 10F capacitor.  The capacitor can be charged within 10 seconds.  It can then light the LED for over 10 minutes.

Can the Output Energy be greater than the Input from some extra lead-out electromagnetic energy?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 28, 2015, 09:01:07 PM
I suggest that you learn some elementary electricity BEFORE you ask such a question.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 28, 2015, 11:57:59 PM
I suggest that you learn some elementary electricity BEFORE you ask such a question.

The experiment suggested in reply 3414 is the key.

When you study and learn from existing textbooks or professors, you are likely to get the following answer.

The Output potential energy of the magnet will always be less than the Input electrical energy.  The Law of Conservation of Energy dictates that.

But the magnet in case b and c will rise to a height much higher. (to be confirmed by experiment)

This is a clear case of STUDYING more existing knowledge will CONFUSE you more.  You must jump out of the box.

When you can lead-out or bring-in energy from the environment, there is NO violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy.

Let some experimental scientists with the right equipment do the experiment and shine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 29, 2015, 10:45:51 PM
The following email was sent to the Hong Kong Government and politicians.

Subject: Hong Kong to become the innovation Center of the World?


Dear All,

With Divine Guidance, I have now completed the design of a Flying Saucer in Hong Kong.  This Flying Saucer uses Centripetal or Centrifugal Force as the thrust.  Some Christians call it the King David Sling technology.

A large permanent Magnet (PM) travels in a circular path.  It will experience a larger Centrifugal Force if the angular velocity is higher.  The invention is to supply energy to the PM via a Drive Coil so that it travels faster on the top part of the circular path.  One or more Collector Coils take out the energy of the PM so that it travels slower on the bottom part of the circular path.

The attached file provides more detailed information.  More detail is available in Overunity.com.  Search using the keywords "12 times" and focus on reply 3354 and 3355.

If Hong Kong can design, build and demonstrate a Flying Saucer that can lead-out the gravitational and/or the electromagnetic energy of the environment, Hong Kong will become the innovation center of the World. 

Will the Hong Kong Government and politicians provide the necessary support?

Lawrence Tseung
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on June 30, 2015, 02:23:33 AM
Studying existing principles will get you an understanding of what WORKS; postulating without having the guts to build, gets you : nothing.
Sending letters/emails to certain people accomplishes nothing; show them proof of what you claim.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 30, 2015, 03:21:46 AM
Studying existing principles will get you an understanding of what WORKS; postulating without having the guts to build, gets you : nothing.
Sending letters/emails to certain people accomplishes nothing; show them proof of what you claim.

Good advice but, he can't because what he claims does not work.

Bill


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Spilled Fluids on June 30, 2015, 03:25:48 AM
The following email was sent to the Hong Kong Government and politicians.

Subject: Hong Kong to become the innovation Center of the World?


Dear All,

With Divine Guidance, I have now completed the design of a Flying Saucer in Hong Kong.  This Flying Saucer uses Centripetal or Centrifugal Force as the thrust.  Some Christians call it the King David Sling technology.

A large permanent Magnet (PM) travels in a circular path.  It will experience a larger Centrifugal Force if the angular velocity is higher.  The invention is to supply energy to the PM via a Drive Coil so that it travels faster on the top part of the circular path.  One or more Collector Coils take out the energy of the PM so that it travels slower on the bottom part of the circular path.

The attached file provides more detailed information.  More detail is available in Overunity.com.  Search using the keywords "12 times" and focus on reply 3354 and 3355.

If Hong Kong can design, build and demonstrate a Flying Saucer that can lead-out the gravitational and/or the electromagnetic energy of the environment, Hong Kong will become the innovation center of the World. 

Will the Hong Kong Government and politicians provide the necessary support?

Lawrence Tseung

Oh boy...

Remember when you ran away and I got on my knees and begged you not to leave because I'd go berzerk?
Well, you left me anyhow and the days got worse and worse and now you see I've gone completely out of my mind.

And They're coming to take me away Ha Ha
They're coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha
to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time, and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats
and they're coming to take me away ha ha

You thought it was joke and so you laughed, you laughed when I had said that losing you would make me flip my lid, right? You know you laughed, I heard you laugh, you laughed, you laughed and laughed and then you left, but now you know I'm utterly mad.

And they're coming to take me away Ha Ha
They're coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha
To the happy home with trees and flowers and chirping birds and basket weavers who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes
They're coming to take me away ha ha...


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ATOM1 on June 30, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
WOW A REAL FRUIT AND NUT FARM HAHAHAH

I thought I had some issues but thanks to you I now know I am only abnormal hahahahah And yes the dam sling shot works but you need a radiant energy coil to free it from a battery ..... Plug it into the ambient field why not ... I can do that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets throw it at the MOON .................FOR REAL ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, WHY NOT ?????????

ATOM1
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on June 30, 2015, 03:03:26 PM
Fishing helps to build the patience/tolerance.   It s also fun.

One can prepare with the baits, fishing gear and skills.

However, one does not know which fish will bite and when?

I already received positive emails and phone calls.

Can I catch the big one?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ATOM1 on June 30, 2015, 03:08:02 PM
An overunity fish hahahh ok

does it eat coils and magnets ???? Did you know that if you place a fish under a high frequency emf field and feed it the fish will increase its metabolic rate and grow 10 times its normal size .....

ATOM1
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 01, 2015, 12:36:24 PM
Have high tea with an Inventor.


Inventor: "We all have our babies.  They are our joy and hope.  There is no need for comparison.  They are all beautiful."

Tseung: "We shall love and guard them until our last breath."

Inventor: "Well said."

Tseung: "Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer lives forever..."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Hope on July 01, 2015, 02:51:45 PM
Thank you for the efforts,  your idea seeds may sprout eternally only time can tell.   Encouragement is the water.   Lets see Merryman build instead of derail.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on July 01, 2015, 08:27:01 PM
Soon 1 million views and still no progress? When do we see your over unity engine Lawrence?


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on July 01, 2015, 09:33:50 PM
"Lets see Merryman build instead of derail." no, let's see Lawrence make instead of talk.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 04, 2015, 05:02:50 AM
The lead-out energy flying saucer design information is being spread around quickly in Hong Kong.


Most people understood the King David Sling scenario with minimal explanation.


Hong Kong Government and Politicians already received the information.


The focus is now on the academics...


Can Hong Kong become the spring board for lead-out energy flying saucers?


How would this technology affect Hong Kong?  Hong Kong already receives foreign investment second only to China (more than USA!)  Money is not a problem.  The Hong Kong Universities rank among the best in the World.  It is a matter of inspiring confidence.  Let many shine.


Keeping an eye on the QMOGENs:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Best_Home_Power_QMoGen_Contenders


Lawrence
3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 05, 2015, 10:16:41 AM
May be the Hong Kong people are smart.  Every one I talked to understood the King David Sling scenario.  Everyone agreed that UFO could be built in that fashion.

Are Hong Kong people smarter than the debunkers in this thread?  Or are the debunkers deliberately acting stupid?

The updated presentation is attached.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on July 05, 2015, 03:13:52 PM

Are Hong Kong people smarter than the debunkers in this thread?  Or are the debunkers deliberately acting stupid?

Maybe Yes, and maybe No.

The way for the Hong Kong people to  prove their superiority would be to buy a Hornby OO train set, remove the electric motor and put in your technology.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on July 05, 2015, 03:40:24 PM
"Are Hong Kong people smarter than the debunkers in this thread?  Or are the debunkers deliberately acting stupid?" or are the debunkers smarter? or neither? or...
As I and others said: stop talking and DO. Action can produce results.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 06, 2015, 12:35:37 AM
"Are Hong Kong people smarter than the debunkers in this thread?  Or are the debunkers deliberately acting stupid?" or are the debunkers smarter? or neither? or...
As I and others said: stop talking and DO. Action can produce results.

Hong Kong people are smarter.  They do not rush into building anything.  They treat this seriously.  They treat this as going around the World.  A rowing boat would not do it.  They consider the possible storms and waves.

The project is regarded as top secret by both USA and China
.  Going out on a rowing boat is suicide.  With enough publicity and efforts from multiple sources worldwide, it will not be a lonely rowing boat.  It will be ocean liners...

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Spilled Fluids on July 06, 2015, 12:38:55 AM
Hong Kong people are smarter.  They do not rush into building anything.  They treat this seriously.  They treat this as going around the World.  A rowing boat would not do it.  They consider the possible storms and waves.

The project is regarded as top secret by both USA and China
.  Going out on a rowing boat is suicide.  With enough publicity and efforts from multiple sources worldwide, it will not be a lonely rowing boat.  It will be ocean liners...

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355

I certainly hope that ocean liner has enough life vests and foil helmets for everyone on board!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 06, 2015, 01:24:52 AM
I certainly hope that ocean liner has enough life vests and foil helmets for everyone on board!

If the ocean liner is powered by the King David Sling device,  it won't be able to leave the dock, much less sail anywhere.

Bill
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 06, 2015, 04:31:09 PM
Revelation at the Fishing Pond.

For those who are not familiar with fresh pond fishing, catching fishes are not easy.  The bait provided is flour mixed with residue of peanut after peanut oil is extracted.  The fishes suck (not bite) the bait.  Careful observation of the float and quick reaction are needed.  Many give up in frustration.

The New Hire showed his magic.  He helped the two girls to catch more than 10 fishes in 30 minute.  That is the level of an expert.  (I caught 5 in the same time.)

His technique as observed by me:
1.  Be very nice and encouraging to the customers.
2.  Get all equipment (bait, rod, towel, water, chair, net etc.)
3.  Do the necessary adjustments of float.
4.  Explain and catch the first fish for the customer.  Let the customer use the net to bring the fish up.
5.  Hook the bait and position the float properly.  Let the customer hold the rod.  Yell when to pull.  Do it together with customer and friends.
6.  Let the customer be a tutor to her younger sister.  But hook the bait and place the float is still done by the expert new hire.
7.  Show hooking the bait and placing the float multiple times.
8.  Select the right spot of the pond. 

It looks like I may be able to use the same technique for the Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer project.
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on July 06, 2015, 07:54:47 PM
This thread has been outright hi-jacked and polluted and I find it very offensive to the thread’s creator and original intent of the thread.

I think it is due time that we start a new thread titled something like “Lead Out Theory – Fact or Fiction”.  The purpose being to introduce the premise of the Lead Out theory and mathematical model presented by Lawrence in his ‘Divine Revelation’ document, and prove once and for all, the validity of the theory.  The idea is so simple it should be fairly easy to build and test a device like that shown in the document.  It will either behave according to the math or it will not, it’s that simple.  This is something Lawrence should have done long ago.  Instead he continues to claim other people’s inventions work because they are based on his theory, a theory which is to date, neither proven nor supported by any reputable academic individual or institution.  Lawrence was banned from www.besslerwheel.com (http://www.besslerwheel.com) long ago for the same behavior he has shown here – non stop unsubstantiated claims with absolutely no proof and no effort in attempting to prove the theory himself.  We would need to ask Lawrence to not contribute to this new thread.  It needs to be an independent scientific effort and discussion that leads to the truth, regardless of the outcome.  I offer no disrespect to Lawrence and I truly hope we find in his favor as it would mean PM is possible and in an incredibly simple way.  So is anyone interested?  If so, I would gladly kick it off.

zoelra


 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: memoryman on July 06, 2015, 08:07:44 PM
Yes, I agree. Lawrence refuses do any experiments himself of have others do them for remuneration (he claims to have the money).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 07, 2015, 01:01:38 AM
This post is to prepare to break up the lead-out energy flying saucer into small pieces suitable for groups of University Students.  Most Universities will have the resources to do at least some of the experiments.

The file is in:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2100.msg50197#msg50197

I put it in overunityreseach.com because I have moderator privileges there and can update the information as often as needed.

The discussion will still be available in this thread.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on July 07, 2015, 04:38:12 AM
What do flying saucers have to do with 'Gravity Powered Devices' or the 'Milkovic 2SO'?  I won't go as far as saying this is rubbish, but it needs to be posted in the appropriate forum and not here.  This distracts from the real work that needs to be done.  Where are the moderators on this site?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 07, 2015, 08:09:23 AM
What do flying saucers have to do with 'Gravity Powered Devices' or the 'Milkovic 2SO'?  I won't go as far as saying this is rubbish, but it needs to be posted in the appropriate forum and not here.  This distracts from the real work that needs to be done.  Where are the moderators on this site?

See reply 3392
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg452951/#msg452951

Note that the Flying Saucer uses Drive Coils to increase the velocity of the magnet - provide a large Centrifugal Force upwards.  It then uses Collector Coils to decrease the velocity of the magnet.  The CF Force downwards is low.  The difference in CF provides the thrust. 

The Collector Coils can collect more energy than supplied by the Drive Coils.  That is shown by the 225 HP Pulse Motor.  That is lead-out energy.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on July 07, 2015, 08:37:56 AM
....  I won't go as far as saying this is rubbish....

I will.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on July 07, 2015, 09:25:31 AM
This thread has been outright hi-jacked and polluted and I find it very offensive to the thread’s creator and original intent of the thread.

I think it is due time that we start a new thread titled something like “Lead Out Theory – Fact or Fiction”.  The purpose being to introduce the premise of the Lead Out theory and mathematical model presented by Lawrence in his ‘Divine Revelation’ document, and prove once and for all, the validity of the theory.  The idea is so simple it should be fairly easy to build and test a device like that shown in the document.  It will either behave according to the math or it will not, it’s that simple.  This is something Lawrence should have done long ago.  Instead he continues to claim other people’s inventions work because they are based on his theory, a theory which is to date, neither proven nor supported by any reputable academic individual or institution.  Lawrence was banned from www.besslerwheel.com (http://www.besslerwheel.com) long ago for the same behavior he has shown here – non stop unsubstantiated claims with absolutely no proof and no effort in attempting to prove the theory himself.  We would need to ask Lawrence to not contribute to this new thread.  It needs to be an independent scientific effort and discussion that leads to the truth, regardless of the outcome.  I offer no disrespect to Lawrence and I truly hope we find in his favor as it would mean PM is possible and in an incredibly simple way.  So is anyone interested?  If so, I would gladly kick it off.

zoelra
The "lead-out" "theory" is not a theory.  It is a complete bovine droppings by a guy who has promoted all manner of unworkable overunity ideas.  It has been shown to be utter and complete junk many times over the years.  The devices don't work as Lawrence claims which is why Lawrence doesn't build and demonstrate them.  Lawrence apparently entertains himself by posting useless effluent knowing it is useless effluent and hoping for responses.  He ignores any and all challenges to produce evidence for his claims or explain how his ideas supposedly overcome established physics that are fatal to each and every of his free energy and reactionless drive claims.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on July 07, 2015, 09:29:53 AM
This post is to prepare to break up the lead-out energy flying saucer into small pieces suitable for groups of University Students.  Most Universities will have the resources to do at least some of the experiments.

The file is in:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2100.msg50197#msg50197

I put it in overunityreseach.com because I have moderator privileges there and can update the information as often as needed.

The discussion will still be available in this thread.

Lawrence
reply 3354 3355
Lawrence you are missing your calling.  If you want to prattle on endlessly promoting unworkable ideas that are "just around the corner", then you might want to team up with Mark Goldes.  Together, you two can wax on endlessly how one disproven notion or another will be saving the earth:  REAL SOON!  Which is to say:  never.  But that can be Mark Goldes' and your not so private secret.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 07, 2015, 11:12:41 AM
Go to reply 3445 and follow the link to overunityresearch.com.

More information is now in the file.  Some extract is reproduced here:

1.0   Presenting the overview

As one Christian put it: “God gives to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation.  EP.1.17.    How many humans can claim that they have the solution for Free Energy and also the solution to fly to outer space?”
The fact that the revelations come to a retiree with little resources is remarkable.  The retiree has shaky hands, poor eyesight and hearing.  Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer may be the Top Secret in both USA and China.  Before 2006.....

Lawrence
reply 3445
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on July 07, 2015, 11:27:42 AM
Go to reply 3445 and follow the link to overunityresearch.com.

More information is now in the file.  Some extract is reproduced here:

1.0   Presenting the overview

As one Christian put it: “God gives to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation.  EP.1.17.    How many humans can claim that they have the solution for Free Energy and also the solution to fly to outer space?”
You cannot honestly make such claims.
Quote

The fact that the revelations come to a retiree with little resources is remarkable.  The retiree has shaky hands, poor eyesight and hearing.  Lead-out Energy Flying Saucer may be the Top Secret in both USA and China.  Before 2006.....

Lawrence
reply 3445
Lots of things may be but actually are not.  These two silly claims of yours are examples of such.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on July 07, 2015, 06:45:28 PM
Lawrence you should create a new Topic under 'Antigravity' or 'UFO technology and sightings' and post your flying saucer ideas there.   You will find like-minded people there and you will likely find a more receptive audience.  It is inappropriate for you to continue posting your off topic ideas here.  This Topic is for posting ideas about the Milkovic 2SO, NOT for promoting your lead-out or flying saucer theories.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 07, 2015, 10:56:20 PM
Lawrence you should create a new Topic under 'Antigravity' or 'UFO technology and sightings' and post your flying saucer ideas there.   You will find like-minded people there and you will likely find a more receptive audience.  It is inappropriate for you to continue posting your off topic ideas here.  This Topic is for posting ideas about the Milkovic 2SO, NOT for promoting your lead-out or flying saucer theories.

There is a thread called UFO propulsion technology.  I shall post there.
http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/#.VZ0eCulRFjo

Lawrence
reply 3445
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on July 09, 2015, 02:26:07 AM
Excellent news Lawrence.  I think that is all that is needed to maintain civility.  Everyone here is working towards the same common goal.

P.S. I still like your lead-out proposal and have not sufficiently proven it to myself to be false, so I will continue until I have a result, then post my findings.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 13, 2015, 01:52:22 PM
Mr. Lee Cheung Kin, the engineer who first suggested that the Pulsed Pendulum might lead-out gravitational energy passed away peacefully on July 9, 2015.

His insight got Lawrence Tseung excited.  The mathematics was worked out and presented at Tsinghua University in 2006.

His work will be remembered.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on July 13, 2015, 04:28:06 PM
Mr. Lee Cheung Kin, the engineer who first suggested that the Pulsed Pendulum might lead-out gravitational energy passed away peacefully on July 9, 2015.

His insight got Lawrence Tseung excited.  The mathematics was worked out and presented at Tsinghua University in 2006.

His work will be remembered.
Never heard of him, and his math did probably not add up. RIP.


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 13, 2015, 11:35:58 PM
Never heard of him, and his math did probably not add up. RIP.


Vidar

The reason why his name was not well known is that he still believed in the Military tradition - follow the party line.  He was responsible in arranging the Tsinghua University visit.  Technically that was a big success.

But when some Communist Party Officials interfered, Lee stepped back.  Lawrence Tseung stupidly used his own retirement expenses to try to reproduce the working prototypes, energy and resources were wasted.

The right approach is being taken now.  Just promote and sow seeds.  The mathematics is and will never be wrong.  King David killed Goliath with the circular motion force of the sling.  Let others with the equipment and resources shine.  Ignore the debunkers and the jeers.

China and USA will be forced to disclose their top secrets.  UFO or lead-out Energy Flying Saucer  technology will come out to benefit the World.

Lee Cheung Kin will not be forgotten in the scientific world.


Lawrence
http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/#.VZ0eCulRFjo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 14, 2015, 11:58:48 AM
The two-sided sheet with Lee on one side and the magnet repulsion experiment on the other is being circulated in many places in Hong Kong.

Mr. Lee Cheung Kin will not be forgotten.  He will be remembered together with the lead-out magnetic energy experiment and the flying saucer.

The magnetic energy experiment can be done in almost all Universities and Secondary Schools in Hong Kong.  The Universities have better oscilloscopes and better resources.  The results will have higher credibility. 

Lawrence
http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/#.VZ0eCulRFjo

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 14, 2015, 06:12:46 PM
Milkovic 2 stage oscillator pendulum simulation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCB9KD3M2KU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 14, 2015, 11:54:42 PM
Generator system for the Milkovic pendulum?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv6ZEFsq25s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on July 15, 2015, 05:18:04 AM
Sorry for your loss Lawrence.  Mr. Lee Cheung Kin looks like he was a real good guy and I would have loved to have sat and drank a few beers with him.  I'm sure he would have had magnificent stories to tell.  We can all honor his life by keeping our dedication to solving this mystery.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on July 16, 2015, 10:59:15 PM
Sorry for your loss Lawrence.  Mr. Lee Cheung Kin looks like he was a real good guy and I would have loved to have sat and drank a few beers with him.  I'm sure he would have had magnificent stories to tell.  We can all honor his life by keeping our dedication to solving this mystery.
If the mystery is to find out the potential energy of a mass lifted by an electromagnet, I believe this mystery is already solved. Reference to the images above.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 17, 2015, 12:34:08 AM
If the mystery is to find out the potential energy of a mass lifted by an electromagnet, I believe this mystery is already solved. Reference to the images above.

The mystery is:
The Input Electrical Energy is assumed to be E1.  This can be determined accurately with the DSO in all cases.
The Output Potential Energy is assumed to be mgh.  Both m and h can be measured accurately with video and tape.
When you use ferrite rods as the core of the coil, you will find that in some cases, Output Energy is more than Input Energy.  In other words, overunity is achieved.

The above result will be verified by multiple qualified scientific institutions.  Where does the extra energy come from?  Is it the lead-out energy from the magnetic or electromagnetic field?

Qualitatively, all students in Physics should know that the ferrite core cases would repel the magnet higher.  However, we want the accurate quantitative results.  Thus we need the Universities and their DSOs.

Lawrence
http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/#.VZ0eCulRFjo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 17, 2015, 02:39:48 AM
New video of Veljko Milkovic!

Oscillations more efficient than rotations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qktY1hDrRl8

(English & German subtitles available)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 19, 2015, 02:51:09 PM
Some projects funded by Hong Kong Government.

Mr. Peter Chan said that he was associated with a project funded by the Hong Kong Government around 20 million dollars.  A quick check showed that many projects did get such and higher funding.

With good scientific results and the right contacts, funding for the lead-out energy flying saucer project is not out of the question.

http://www.itf.gov.hk/l-eng/Prj_SearchResult.asp

Lawrence
http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/15/#.Vax_t7tRFjo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on July 22, 2015, 12:13:05 AM
Material list for the draft experiment on Vertical tube magnet repulsion.

1.   Vertical transparent tube 30mm inside diameter, 1 meter, HK$65, Sun International Supplies Limited 2780-0858
2.   Round circular magnet with hole in middle diameter 28mm, Six at HK$18 each, Wah Fai 9753-3792
3.   One coil wire 1mm diameter, 100 meters, HK$80, Wing Hong Electrical Supplier 2625-4736
4.   One ohm resistor up to 10 watts, Two at HK$6 each, Crocodile Clips etc. at HK$18, Bozam Radio Service 2388-9859
5.   On and off switch up to 10 Amp, HK$31, Ban Wah Control Equipment Co. Ltd. 2770-0800
6.   10 meters Magnet Wire, 2 soft ferrite rods 10 cm long, one diameter 30mm, one diameter 35mm, HK$100 Wai Choi 2388-3839

An Atten Oscilloscope and a DC Power Supply up to 30V were available from previous purchases.  Estimated cost HK$3,000.

Total cost = HK$3414
The cost including travel, small tools etc. should be less than HK$3,500.

Lawrence
http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/15/#.Vax_t7tRFjo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on July 25, 2015, 06:03:44 PM
I do not agree with Milkovic's blanket statement that oscillatory motion is better than rotation.  It all depends on the bearing friction.  See the YouTube examples below.  If lightweight wheels (with little inertia) can spin for minutes, think what would happen if the wheels were larger and more massive (still using the same bearings).  The inertia, or moment of inertia, would keep the wheels spinning even longer.  I have found this in my own work.  If you have not tried using skateboard bearings in your own builds, I suggest trying them.  You can gang several together for a wider footprint if necessary.  Keep in mind though, not all bearings are equal.  The best bearings provide much lower friction and spin times.  They can also support significant amounts of weight.  The only drawback is the axle diameter, but as I mentioned, ganging them together, and placing the supports close to the wheel will reduce or eliminate any axle bend, especially when using hardened steel rods for the axle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S12WbRrZeA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S12WbRrZeA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHGoidlKekA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHGoidlKekA)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: SoManyWires on July 26, 2015, 03:07:30 AM
The reason why his name was not well known is that he still believed in the Military tradition - follow the party line.  He was responsible in arranging the Tsinghua University visit.  Technically that was a big success.

But when some Communist Party Officials interfered, Lee stepped back.  Lawrence Tseung stupidly used his own retirement expenses to try to reproduce the working prototypes, energy and resources were wasted.

The right approach is being taken now.  Just promote and sow seeds.  The mathematics is and will never be wrong.  King David killed Goliath with the circular motion force of the sling.  Let others with the equipment and resources shine.  Ignore the debunkers and the jeers.

China and USA will be forced to disclose their top secrets.  UFO or lead-out Energy Flying Saucer  technology will come out to benefit the World.

Lee Cheung Kin will not be forgotten in the scientific world.


Lawrence
http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/#.VZ0eCulRFjo

Sorry for your loss. He was of great inspiration to you, someone who really made you think. Someone who wanted a better world.
It is important that you continue in your efforts!
Thankyou for being so unselfish, and for helping shape the future with your research and experiments.
Lawrence rules! =)
Lee Cheung Kin will not be forgotten.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on July 26, 2015, 04:31:02 PM
Also keep in mind that a pendulum will have a bearing pivot point.  And at its stop points (say 9 and 3), the breakaway friction will be greater than the friction when moving.  Based on Milkovic's videos, you see the bicycle wheel and other wheels come to a stop relatively quickly.  This is not my experience using skateboard bearings.  If you use the same bearings in a balanced wheel, and a pendulum, you will find the wheel will spin longer.  Maybe such quality bearings are not readily available in his country.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: List on July 28, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
New video of Veljko Milkovic!

Oscillations more efficient than rotations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qktY1hDrRl8

(English & German subtitles available)

Obviously it takes less energy to start oscillations than to start rotations. Besides, oscilations are more produktive and they move for longer periond of time comparing to rotations.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 04, 2015, 03:25:53 PM
Video: new replica from India!

pendulum water pump mechanical project
by Karthick Robo (India)
 
Mechanical Engineering Project Topics DIY Machine Homemade Video Diploma And Engineering PDF PPT Abstract System IEEE Mini Main For Final Year Low Cost At Tamil-Nadu List Title Ideas For And Students 2013-2014-2015 Salem Senior Report For Free Design Work Easy best latest new innovative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqx6GnzHpIA (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLqx6GnzHpIA)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on August 07, 2015, 01:26:18 PM

pendulum water pump mechanical project
by Karthick Robo (India)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqx6GnzHpIA (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLqx6GnzHpIA)
This is a mechanical tank circuit. The resonance needs to be tuned in.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 10, 2015, 12:10:25 AM
Some pendulum powered machines - replicas from India etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_2lnSNcS8Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7q6M4o8zFI
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I83JRTVCE04#t=325s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9YmgEKr8gw
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdaA2io3sGU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 16, 2015, 02:27:46 AM
Perpetual Pendulum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y8QXi7PzLI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MarkE on August 16, 2015, 03:04:10 AM
Perpetual Pendulum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y8QXi7PzLI
If you are really interested in that, time the motion by looking at the position frame by frame.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on August 16, 2015, 05:06:06 AM
And ask yourself why the upper support box has to be so thick.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 19, 2015, 10:48:57 PM
The Infinite Oscillation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAchuS8SyU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on August 20, 2015, 02:42:12 AM

New video of Veljko Milkovic!

Oscillations more efficient than rotations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qktY1hDrRl8

What is missing is measurements. I find that the hand is a lousy measurement
tool. I would drop a weight to start the wheel and drop the same weight the
same height to start the pendulum. That way you have the same work in. Then count the time each swings or turns and you have a real measurement.

My hand has fooled me many times.

Norman
   
 

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 01, 2015, 02:29:04 AM
...some Indian student project on Milkovic's pendulum pump.
http://www.slideshare.net/pranitathorat94/structural-design-and-manufacturing-using-pendulum-principle-for-bucket-type-water-pump (http://www.slideshare.net/pranitathorat94/structural-design-and-manufacturing-using-pendulum-principle-for-bucket-type-water-pump)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 08, 2015, 06:04:36 PM
New Indian scientific papers on Milkovic's pendulum system:

http://esatjournals.org/Volumes/IJRET/2015V04/I15/IJRET20150415008.pdf (http://esatjournals.org/Volumes/IJRET/2015V04/I15/IJRET20150415008.pdf)

http://www.ijrmet.com/vol5issue1/2/6-Gowrishankar-K.pdf (http://www.ijrmet.com/vol5issue1/2/6-Gowrishankar-K.pdf)

http://www.ijsrd.com/articles/IJSRDV3I50595.pdf (http://www.ijsrd.com/articles/IJSRDV3I50595.pdf)

http://www.ijstr.org/final-print/may2015/Swing-Set-Irrigation-System.pdf (http://www.ijstr.org/final-print/may2015/Swing-Set-Irrigation-System.pdf)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246318969/Water-Pump-Through-Pendulum (http://www.scribd.com/doc/246318969/Water-Pump-Through-Pendulum)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on September 08, 2015, 08:12:13 PM
I did not see any work in and work out measurements in any of the 4 papers that I read.
Any real paper worth its salt would need that.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 20, 2015, 11:46:53 PM
I did not see any work in and work out measurements in any of the 4 papers that I read.
Any real paper worth its salt would need that.

Norman

You should check this paper and book:

Two-stage oscillator mechanism for operating a reciprocating pump

http://journalajst.com/sites/default/files/Download%201339.pdf

Neue Experimente mit Freier Energie
http://www.franzis.de/franzis/area/download-shop/do_download.jsp;jsessionid=924C43B7258547594D04A825DDC262EF?actionRequest=download&downloadOID=2842898&mediaOID=2842936
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on September 21, 2015, 01:46:32 AM
Merg said


You should check this paper and book:

Two-stage oscillator mechanism for operating a reciprocating pump

http://journalajst.com/sites/default/files/Download%201339.pdf (http://journalajst.com/sites/default/files/Download%201339.pdf)


What table 3 says on the last page is less output than input.
What did you mean? what page/paragraph? What did I miss?

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 29, 2015, 11:33:29 PM
New video of Veljko Milkovic

Pendulum slow motion
Slow motion video of maintaining the pendulum motion by hand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Mh70gbpLE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Mh70gbpLE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on September 30, 2015, 02:55:50 AM
New video of Veljko Milkovic

Pendulum slow motion
Slow motion video of maintaining the pendulum motion by hand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Mh70gbpLE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Mh70gbpLE)

Slow motion looks very easy BUT there are no measurements....
work in vs work out.....
Till then its just an interesting idea.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: noonespecial on September 30, 2015, 07:38:02 PM
I agree. There's no work being done here. He's simply tapping the pendulum with the screwdriver adding the small bit of energy lost in the swing. What is that supposed to prove?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 01, 2015, 04:14:33 PM
Some earlier measurements

Mk 5 Input/Output Determination Through Load Cell Measurement
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/docs/Ronald_Pugh_Input-Output_Measurement_Mk5.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 04, 2015, 05:21:18 PM
New video of Veljko Milkovic

MILKOVIC PENDULUM - two-stage oscillator with a flexible pendulum drive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xm9RPVgdw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 04, 2015, 05:47:18 PM
New video of Veljko Milkovic

MILKOVIC PENDULUM - two-stage oscillator with a flexible pendulum drive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xm9RPVgdw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xm9RPVgdw)

so many videos ... BUT there are no measurements....

this pump is not very efficient this is not a good proof !
(a lot of manual pump do the same)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 09, 2015, 06:04:58 PM
A video from the 2015 Energy Science & Technology Conference (USA)
by Aaron Murakami

Veljko Milkovic - 2 Stage Mechanical Oscillator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbQjaTZEPjI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 15, 2015, 02:28:21 AM
A new paper from India

A Review on Pendulum Pump
Prof. Dipak S Welkar, Master. Ankit S.Shinde, Prof. N. A. Jadhav
Guru Gobind Singh Polytechnic, Nashik, India
http://ijtsh.com/Papers/2-DSW.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 15, 2015, 07:30:25 AM
A new paper from India

A Review on Pendulum Pump
Prof. Dipak S Welkar, Master. Ankit S.Shinde, Prof. N. A. Jadhav
Guru Gobind Singh Polytechnic, Nashik, India
http://ijtsh.com/Papers/2-DSW.pdf (http://ijtsh.com/Papers/2-DSW.pdf)

look at this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpjack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpjack)

are you Re-Inventing The Wheel ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on October 15, 2015, 01:41:52 PM
A new paper from India

A Review on Pendulum Pump
Prof. Dipak S Welkar, Master. Ankit S.Shinde, Prof. N. A. Jadhav
Guru Gobind Singh Polytechnic, Nashik, India
http://ijtsh.com/Papers/2-DSW.pdf (http://ijtsh.com/Papers/2-DSW.pdf)

This sounds great but what is missing is the numbers ie. power in instead we
get this vague statement "
the battery pump can run continuously for at least 3 hours. As there is
no need of electricity to charge the battery".
My guess is that the battery will need to be charged eventually.
If not where is the charging circuit????

this indicates it needs to be charged " No need to run the vehicle only for charging the battery. At once the battery is charged pump can be run for 3-4 hours by using the battery."

Where is the simple science? power in and power out?

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 21, 2015, 04:15:55 PM
Unbalanced Chan Wheel showing the Milkovic 2SO effect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FolD_R32Eqw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on October 21, 2015, 04:30:41 PM
Unbalanced Chan Wheel showing the Milkovic 2SO effect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FolD_R32Eqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FolD_R32Eqw)
This seems to be a mechanical tank circuit and needs to be tuned for resonance.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on October 21, 2015, 04:54:08 PM
Unbalanced Chan Wheel showing the Milkovic 2SO effect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FolD_R32Eqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FolD_R32Eqw)

very good !
there is no output energy
and the wheel stops after a few seconds ...
so where is the "12 times more output than input" ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 23, 2015, 01:07:04 AM
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg442470/#msg442470
(reply 2943)

For the bright student, the teacher only needs to say once.  For the lowest grade students, I shall say one more (last) time.

1.  Mass m1 is lifted only when the Centrifugal Force Fc + m2*g is higher than m1*g.

2.  During the lifting, the amplitude of swing does not decrease.

3.  The energy required does not come from the pendulum.  The. only other source is gravity.

4.  When m1 is raised to a high h, the potential energy gained is m1*g*h.  This lead-out energy is available to do work.

5.  The pendulum bob swings higher.  The velocity gets lower  The Centrifugal Force decreases.  The Force m1*g is again greater than m2*g + Fc.  The mass m1 falls back to ground.  The original position or state is repeated.

6.  The energy to return the pendulum system to the original position is m2*g*h.  This energy comes from the lead-out energy mentioned in 4.

7.  The difference (m1-m2)*g*h is used to produce the loud bang noise in the original Milkovic.  In the later Milkovic, that energy is used to pump water. 

8.  That amount of energy (m1-m2)*g*h is relatively small because the period of the pendulum is fixed.

9.  The obvious improvement is to replace the pendulum by an Unbalanced Wheel.  The amount of gravitational energy can be increased hundred or thousand times because of the much higher rotational speed.

10.  The QMOGENs get it right.  The Motor is used to increase the rotational speed.  The Centrifugal Force varies as the square of the angular velocity.  Thus increasing the rotational speed leads out much more gravitational energy.

11.  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier is effectively many Unbalanced Wheels joined together to form Unbalanced Cylinders.  Thus it can lead-out much more gravitational energy.

This is the last time I answer this lead-out energy question.  If the student does not understand, too bad.  Let them ask help from the bright ones.

My focus is now in understanding and designing the UFO.

Lawrence Tseung

http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/msg454951/#msg454951
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on October 24, 2015, 01:10:13 AM
http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/new/#new

The two important aspects of UFO propulsion are:

1.  Varying circular motion produces changing centrifugal force.  The difference in centrifugal force provides the net thrust in the appropriate direction.  Multiple UFO engines allow hovering, sharp turns, going into outer space etc.

2.  Leading out of energy from the surrounding.  One form of energy is the gravitational energy that is available anywhere in space.  A horizontally pulsed pendulum will increase the tension of the string.  The vertical component of the tension will raise the pendulum bob and thus lead-out or bring-in gravitational energy.  The Milkovic two stage pendulum uses the pendulum swing to raise the weight to bring-in gravitational energy.  When the pendulum swings, the largest downward force is produced when the pendulum bob is at the lowest position - highest centrifugal force.  The weight is lifted at this point with no loss of momentum of the swing.

If gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in, magnetic or electromagnetic energy can be brought-in via magnetic pendulums in magnetic fields.  Electromagnets orientate the tiny magnets (dipoles) of the iron core to produce suddenly large magnetic fields.  A pulsing DC current acts similar to pulsing a pendulum.  Magnetic or electromagnetic energy is brought-in.  The brought-in energy is then replenished by the surrounding electromagnetic energy that is always available.

Both gravitational and electromagnetic energy are available in space.  Some positions carry more.  This is one possible scientific explanation of the propulsion of the UFO engine...

Both China and USA have developed UFOs...

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on October 26, 2015, 01:00:59 PM
I propose the following simple test to demonstrate the real input and output power of the Milkovic ideas.

1. drive the setup with a weight on a string wrapped around a wheel or dowel
    to turn and set into motion the swinging.

2. then a similar weight wrapped on a string can measure the lifted output
   work.

Then if there is more output work than input Milkovic has the magic device we
all desire.

I have tried this on some setups and it has failed to produce more output
than input. 

So my simple challenge is do your own test and post the results back here.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Russ Lee on October 26, 2015, 03:17:37 PM
 Years ago I sent him a description of a linkage that would loop the energy back to the pendulum to provide the overunity he claims this mechanism has. His response was that he was no longer looking for a "linkage solution".? He knows this is not an overunity device and is just letting this thing continue on regardless. It if produced 12 times the energy it needs to function, it would be a small thing to loop the energy back, even with 50% loss, there is still energy left over.
i just watched the video.  ;D

this is a very fascinating yet simple machine. he demonstrates it's ease of use to do a powerful amount of work several times.

however, he does NOT show the device powering itself, which is the best way to demonstrate overunity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: List on November 30, 2015, 09:19:11 PM
Please guys, let's go back to more competent or at least relevant scientists and researchers.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: List on December 07, 2015, 07:07:27 PM
A video from the 2015 Energy Science & Technology Conference (USA)
by Aaron Murakami

Veljko Milkovic - 2 Stage Mechanical Oscillator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbQjaTZEPjI

It is really interesting that someone relevant in this field takes a stand on the matter without hiding in anonimity.
I truly hope this encourages other forum members to provide more material like this about relevant authors discussing significant findings, such as Milcovic's.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Grk on December 16, 2015, 08:50:50 PM
I agree on this. People are so brave when they criticize someone else's work.
It's not a small thing to you speak your mind and to stand behind your words - on internet and in real life.
I came across this paper published in Asian Journal of Science and Technology published by Nikhade, G. R et al. http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/G.R.Nikhade_R.U.Patil_S.P.Bansal_Two-stage_oscillator_mechanism_for_operating_a_reciprocating%20pump.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/G.R.Nikhade_R.U.Patil_S.P.Bansal_Two-stage_oscillator_mechanism_for_operating_a_reciprocating%20pump.pdf). It is really worth reading.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on February 04, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
Quote from: ltseung888 on January 26, 2016, 03:11:46 AM (http://overunity.com/15077/ufo-propu-engine-closed-loop/msg472257/#msg472257)Leading-out gravitational energy
Reference: Rhead100 video 6.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8)

1.   At 2:07 time, the 46 pound pendulum was at its maximum height position.  A small push with the fingers lifted the 74 pound weight twice.
2.   Between 2:07 and 3:30, note that the weight was lifted twice with each push from the fingers.
3.   The weight was lifted when the pendulum was at the lowest height position.
4.   That position was the highest velocity position.  The centrifugal force was highest.
5.   Notice that the maximum swing position was hardly changed.

Some possible deductions:
a.   The 74 pound weight was not lifted until the amplitude of the swing was high enough.
b.   The sum of the twice lifted height appeared to be more than the once movement of the fingers.
c.   The potential energy shown by the 74 pound weight was given by the formula mgh where m is mass of the 74 pound weight, g is the gravitational acceleration and h is the total height lifted.
d.   The supplied energy is the force of the push (f) times the finger movement (d) or fd.
e.   It appeared that output energy was more than supplied energy (mgh > fd) between 2:07 and 3:30.  Before 2:07, the supplied energy is used to increase the amplitude of the swing. 

Our explanation is that gravitational energy was lead-out or brought-in.  There is no violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy.  That video was an experimental confirmation.

It may be worthwhile to reproduce the Raymond Head setup so that the experiment can be repeated and improved.

Unbalanced chan wheel shows Milkovic 2SO effect...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4rgLBU34Oo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4rgLBU34Oo)

Balanced chan wheel does not show milkovic 2SO effect...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqtp4-X6TGI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqtp4-X6TGI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: turbogt16v on February 09, 2016, 02:12:22 PM
well i have read some comments on you-tube,and they are correct to answer the riddle of the device..

You are not picking up 74 pounds of weight because that weight is counterbalanced by what the pendulum weigh.

its the same misleading effect when you spin a  massive weight on spinning wheel,you only need small force to keep it going, but you always need it

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 13, 2016, 07:16:48 PM
Gravitational waves - are they a reason of the extened pendulum motion?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/science/ligo-gravitational-waves-black-holes-einstein.html?_r=0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: turbogt16v on February 14, 2016, 07:57:54 AM
i really hate this troll tactics on this forum...

I think the device works because it is not full moon,so the  earth gravity is in its highest point,so it will not work with full moon.

ps. if you don't know what to do ,don't do it here
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 14, 2016, 08:25:11 PM
 It’s interesting how easy they start these big pendulums and keep it moving
…and these effects would be much better with the ceramic bearings and flexible (elastic) pendulums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_wAPc4GIC8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MzYmRFjog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk3MABMLa0k

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on March 14, 2016, 09:54:22 PM
It’s interesting how easy they start these big pendulums and keep it moving

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_wAPc4GIC8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_wAPc4GIC8)



I'm not impressed - no performance numbers for power in or out...

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 17, 2016, 09:14:55 PM
In the March 14 presentation, I emphasized that gravitational energy can be lead-out via the Milkovic 2SO.  I asked the participants to study and restudy the video.  Convince themselves that gravitational is
brought-in.

One comment just came:

1.  First focus on the output up and down motion of the weight.  The weight can come down to crash nuts.  Thus there is real energy involved.

2.  That up and down motion is caused by the swinging motion of the pendulum.

3.  In the swinging motion, the vertical force on the pendulum side varies.  The circular swinging motion produces centrifugal force.  That varying centrifugal force is responsible for the up and down motion of the lever.

4.  The supplied energy to maintain the swinging motion of the pendulum is used to overcome friction and air resistance of the pendulum.  The up and down motion is "free" (brought-in automatically without supplying extra energy).

5.  This free energy is used to produce the real energy of the weight to crash nuts...

More details are in the "ufo propu" thread.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 19, 2016, 03:42:49 PM
Even in water surroundings, the oscillating motion proved to be superior
https://youtu.be/h-_hBOHU4dw?t=24m53s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on March 20, 2016, 09:31:36 AM
Even in water surroundings, the oscillating motion proved to be superior
https://youtu.be/h-_hBOHU4dw?t=24m53s (https://youtu.be/h-_hBOHU4dw?t=24m53s)

no you can't proof it !
can you beat this boat ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on March 22, 2016, 02:20:21 AM

Quote from: ltseung888 on March 20, 2016, 08:42:27 PM

Easter is coming. The comments after the March 14 presentation include:
 
1. The Input Energy to the Milkovic two stage pendulum is to keep the pendulum swinging like another other pendulum system.  It is used to overcome friction and air resistance.  Many pendulum systems have efficiency close to 99%.
2. The up and down motion of the lever system is created from the varying centrifugal force of the pendulum.  It is free.
3. This free energy is considered as the lead-out gravitational energy.  It can cause the hammer-like weight to do work.
4. If gravitational energy can be lead-out or brought-in, magnetic or electromagnetic energy must be able to be brought-in.


From this point of view, the Milkovic 2SO is definitely an overunity device...

See the ufo propu thread.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on March 22, 2016, 07:40:42 AM
Quote from: ltseung888 on March 20, 2016, 08:42:27 PM



From this point of view, the Milkovic 2SO is definitely an overunity device...



where is energy in versus energy output ?
you can not proof it
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 26, 2016, 02:33:06 PM
An example how a flexible (elastic) pendulum can be better - a specific proof that the flexible pendulum gives better results than the pendulum with the ball bearings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xm9RPVgdw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 27, 2016, 10:15:11 AM
where is energy in versus energy output ?
you can not proof it

It was 'proofed' in the first 20 pages of the thread.
All energy can be accounted for.
each time the pendulum reaches BDC, and lifts the weight,
it loses some of its' amplitude.
that is why the user has to keep pushing it to keep it moving.

There is nothing 'extra' or 'overunity' here.
It is really not that efficient of a system, when you consider modern electric motor pumps

The only real advantage this system gives, is over conventional manually operated pumping systems.
This system uses a lot less 'human power' input, to pump the same amount of water,
when compared to other manual pumps.

the electric water pump can out perform this device
like the chainsaw did to Paul Bunyan
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on March 27, 2016, 06:50:04 PM
It was 'proofed' in the first 20 pages of the thread.


yes
but  why this tread had 235 pages now ?


""  12 times more output than input, "" is a very very very false claim

why the admin does not closed this thread ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 29, 2016, 05:48:51 PM
New scientific paper from India

Electrical Energy Harvesting By Using Pendulum Power Generator
https://www.irjet.net/archives/V3/i2/IRJET-V3I2102.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on March 29, 2016, 10:14:47 PM
In that document he has a simple image of a device, well it would be possible for them to simulate such a device on a 2d simulator like wm2d or algodoo.

Instead of that kid drawing, how to tell if the kinematics will really induce rotation, they can easily prove their device works, but they did not do that,

Useless document.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 11, 2016, 05:29:06 PM
It is interesting how he used the similar system like the Milkovic oscillator for his demonstration :)

Infinite oscillation ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAchuS8SyU

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20446-infinite-oscillation.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 11, 2016, 05:33:55 PM
Some new replicas

http://energieupramene.blogspot.rs/2016/04/mechanicky-oscilator.html


by David C.

secondary oscillations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WAd6vAOVh8

2-stage oscillator research

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvxT4RRwPRk

super simple 2 stage oscillation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z6fM-sE0gI
 
earth pivot 3 stage oscillator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpmEjKpDwsI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on April 13, 2016, 01:43:58 AM
The Milkovic two stage oscillator may very well be a "balanced oscillatory system".  No one has come close to feeding the output back into the system to perpetuate motion.  I'm not saying I agree with this statement, but many believe this to be true, and all tests to date seem to back this up.

In Milkovic's "Pendulum eases pumping of water" video, it appears that he is applying greater force than in his original "Mechanical Advantage of Pendulum Drive" video.  This could be due to the lifted weight (water) leaving the system and not applying backward force on the lever.  Just something to think about.

Mechanical Advantage of Pendulum Drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt7iQmKtHu8

Pendulum eases pumping of water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNdF8mTfu4g

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: turbogt16v on April 13, 2016, 06:53:30 PM
it is very easy to be  mistaken with ou in these types of devices.

if you study basic fizics you would see the problem very easy.

it is the same principle as the nuclear plant has.for it to run or stop you need about 2 days.
so imagine the force you need to keep it running it is very small (relatively small).
same as spinning a huge weight in circle.
but the problem is you always need the push ,and it is bigger than force taken, always .
so when you look at your huge weight that you keep pushing ,you think ,oh there is much force stored in it,but you are the one that keeps adding the force.
that is why milkovic keeps pushing the weight adding the force on and on

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on April 13, 2016, 08:25:55 PM
yep all true but if you try to pump water with a hand pump it is the hard but when you connect it to the gravity assist mechanism it make it much much easier..it not just mickovich but also with these guys in America..but also with physics gravity comes into the formula..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIRaJlTD4Y&feature=youtu.be this is the answer..different but the answer..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: zoelra on April 17, 2016, 04:29:59 PM
This could may be another way of showing the principle.  I unique variation of the Milkovic 2SO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3lpFvuzps&ebc=ANyPxKqgTjpHYUnTCqDUZuQliHY7ZlPIJ3kFBMht_Ws51vvWjDnVb_PD93WysuCVoJS4AoYxYo6vLNGcCvePdor5d4HWE3Jvlg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on April 18, 2016, 07:30:28 PM
i reckon if everybody contributed $100 each to duplicate  MR SKINNER GRAVITY MACHINE we could easily see an over unity machine before the end of 2016. Instead we waste our time spending time money and effort on pedantic bullshit little projects that do not lead to nowhere..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 21, 2016, 05:53:45 AM
Discussion with an Engineer.


1.  A simple pendulum needs to overcome air resistance and the friction at the pivot.  That can be very small.  We can easily achieve 99% efficient.


2.  If the simple pendulum is connected to a seesaw in the Milkovic 2SO fashion, the up and down motion of the weight is automatically maintained.


3.  The maintaining of the up and down motion is NOT via static forces but via the centrifugal force.  Please study the Raymond Head video 6 very carefully.  The weight is lifted twice for every finger push.


4.  The centrifugal force mechanism is "free" by the pendulum swinging motion.  So long as the pendulum swinging motion is maintained, the up and down motion of the weight is also maintained.


5.  The up and down motion of the weight can be used to do work - such as producing the loud bang, crash nuts or pump water.  In the Raymond Head video, the pendulum swings back almost to its original position.  The up and down motion  of the weight produced the loud bang and must have done some work.


6.  One possible explanation is that gravitational energy has been led-out in the process.


7.  The simple pendulum is not very efficient as the energy led-out is occurs at the highest centrifugal force position.  Or when the pendulum bob is at the lowest position.


8.  We can improve the Milkovic 2SO by replacing the pendulum with an unbalanced wheel - the Chan wheel.  The rotational speed can be increased and more gravitational energy can be led-in.


9.  We can further improve the Chan Wheel with Cylinder.  A Cylinder can be thought of as many wheel put together side-by-side.


10.  We can further improve the mechanism via leading out of electromagnetic energy.  A ferromagnetic magnetic material can be thought of as many tiny magnets arranged in random when there is no electric current.  If DC current is passed, these tiny magnets can be aligned to produce a large magnetic field. 


11.  The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier leads out both gravitational and electromagnetic energy.  The Output can be 30 times Input.


Search the keywords "ufo propu" to get more information...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 21, 2016, 07:24:50 PM
Unlike various complications, two-stage oscillator has a clear principle.


Image (1)   Fc – Centrifugal Force, Fg – Gravitational Force

Ideal addition of forces in pendulum – culmination is in the lowest position and zero force is in upper position. In addition, there is a difference in potential during the oscillation.


Image (2)

The pendulum – lever system or two-stage oscillator principle: the pendulum oscillation on the left causes the oscillation of the two-arm lever which can result in useful work (mechanical hammering, water pumping, etc). Archimedes (c. 287 BC – c. 212 BC) worked on lever and Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) on pendulum, and the combination of the two results in new mechanical effects.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 21, 2016, 07:51:27 PM
Unlike various complications, two-stage oscillator has a clear principle.


Image (1)   Fc – Centrifugal Force, Fg – Gravitational Force

Ideal addition of forces in pendulum – culmination is in the lowest position and zero force is in upper position. In addition, there is a difference in potential during the oscillation.


Image (2)

The pendulum – lever system or two-stage oscillator principle: the pendulum oscillation on the left causes the oscillation of the two-arm lever which can result in useful work (mechanical hammering, water pumping, etc). Archimedes (c. 287 BC – c. 212 BC) worked on lever and Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) on pendulum, and the combination of the two results in new mechanical effects.


Merg, I think you have the best explanation diagram on the Milkovic 2SO.  It is the Fc+Fg at the lowest pendulum swing position that provides the lever or seesaw action.  That action is "free".  So long as the pendulum maintains its swinging motion, the lever will have the up and down motion.

In addition, that up and down motion can do work without affecting the swinging motion of the pendulum (or draining energy away from the swinging pendulum).

The power of your explanation diagrams goes beyond the Milkovic 2SO.  If gravitational energy can be led-out, magnetic or electromagnetic energy must be able to be led-out as we can easily replace the pendulum bob with a magnet and increase the gravitational field with artificial magnetic fields.

That opens the whole field of lead-out energy...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on April 21, 2016, 10:42:56 PM
Refering back to msg 3531 there are some missing physics - ie leverage.
So let M - 1 be the left mass and M - 2 the right mass.
let M-1 be 10 units and M-2 be 2 units then the ratio is 5:1. then
let the leverage be less then 5:1 - say 4:1 we know that M-1 can't
lift M-2 but we also know that if some extra force/work becomes
available when the swinging arc reaches bottom which I call the "yank down
force" then M-1 will lift M-2. Then 2 more things must be considered.

1. If I push a balanced seesaw up and down I have not done any work because
its balanced but If I put 1 lb on the other end then the work done would be
1lb  times the distance - say 2 feet. 2 ft lbs of work.



2. How much work goes into the swing push?

I tried to an unbalanced get Chan wheel (which is a 360 degree pendulum) to turn from a weight on a string dropping.
and thus lifting M-2 but it did not perform as hoped for.

So the work done is the mass difference and the leverage ratio considered
and compared to the work require to make the push.

Norman

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 22, 2016, 01:44:06 AM
Refering back to msg 3531 there are some missing physics - ie leverage.
So let M - 1 be the left mass and M - 2 the right mass.
let M-1 be 10 units and M-2 be 2 units then the ratio is 5:1. then
let the leverage be less then 5:1 - say 4:1 we know that M-1 can't
lift M-2 but we also know that if some extra force/work becomes
available when the swinging arc reaches bottom which I call the "yank down
force" then M-1 will lift M-2. Then 2 more things must be considered.

1. If I push a balanced seesaw up and down I have not done any work because
its balanced but If I put 1 lb on the other end then the work done would be
1lb  times the distance - say 2 feet. 2 ft lbs of work.



2. How much work goes into the swing push?

I tried to an unbalanced get Chan wheel (which is a 360 degree pendulum) to turn from a weight on a string dropping.
and thus lifting M-2 but it did not perform as hoped for.

So the work done is the mass difference and the leverage ratio considered
and compared to the work require to make the push.

Norman





1. If I push a balanced seesaw up and down I have not done any work because
its balanced but If I put 1 lb on the other end then the work done would be
1lb  times the distance - say 2 feet. 2 ft lbs of work.[/size]


Your statement is correct.  But the missing point is that the work done does not come from the swinging motion of the pendulum.  A badly constructed Milkovic 2SO or a Chan Wheel will vibrate and shake so much that energy does seen to come from the pendulum.  (The pendulum bob does not go nearly back to its initial position).  A properly built Milkovic or Chan Wheel will show otherwise.

Please show the construction of your Milkovic or Chan wheel.  We may be able to advice you on how to improve it so that you get the proper results.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on April 22, 2016, 01:27:04 PM
Itseung888 said


"Your statement is correct.  But the missing point is that the work done does not come from the swinging motion of the pendulum.  A badly constructed Milkovic 2SO or a Chan Wheel will vibrate and shake so much that energy does seen to come from the pendulum.  (The pendulum bob does not go nearly back to its initial position).  A properly built Milkovic or Chan Wheel will show otherwise.

Please show the construction of your Milkovic or Chan wheel.  We may be able to advice you on how to improve it so that you get the proper results.  "

I do not have that device assembled anymore. When I work I make rapid and crude
prototypes and if they show promise then I make more precise ones. But think of the
device this way.

1. A weight on a string turns the Chan wheel - input work
2. another weight on a string is lifted by the Milkovic/Chan wheel

Then very simply and clearly if the work (weight times distance) of 1
is greater than the work of 2 we have something.

Very easy with no meter/measurement error factors.

But my point was nobody has accounted for all of the physics properly.

Norman

 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ltseung888 on April 22, 2016, 11:20:49 PM
Itseung888 said


"Your statement is correct.  But the missing point is that the work done does not come from the swinging motion of the pendulum.  A badly constructed Milkovic 2SO or a Chan Wheel will vibrate and shake so much that energy does seen to come from the pendulum.  (The pendulum bob does not go nearly back to its initial position).  A properly built Milkovic or Chan Wheel will show otherwise.

Please show the construction of your Milkovic or Chan wheel.  We may be able to advice you on how to improve it so that you get the proper results.  "

I do not have that device assembled anymore. When I work I make rapid and crude
prototypes and if they show promise then I make more precise ones. But think of the
device this way.

1. A weight on a string turns the Chan wheel - input work
2. another weight on a string is lifted by the Milkovic/Chan wheel

Then very simply and clearly if the work (weight times distance) of 1
is greater than the work of 2 we have something.

Very easy with no meter/measurement error factors.

But my point was nobody has accounted for all of the physics properly.

Norman


It is good to do prototypes to demonstrate the Physics.


However, many academic institutions would like accurate, reproducible results.  We can let those with proper resources satisfy the academics.


UFOs from China and USA are already flying.  Their resources are far superior to anything private individuals or companies can master...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 22, 2016, 05:30:58 PM
 Brief Visit to Veljko Milkovic RC (by Gianni Tee)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON1WSQO3DXc (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DON1WSQO3DXc)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 31, 2016, 12:38:27 PM
Hello Merg,

lets analyze how long rotations really lasts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBFHn5bLy7Q and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3e3WtSaRI4

by my estimation - rotations are up to 2 seconds

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 04, 2016, 07:37:42 PM
Perhaps a better example how long rotations really last

The Royal Institutions 1974-75 Christmas Lecture given by Eric Laithwaite
Professor Laithwaite with a replica of Leonardo's rolling ball wheel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A89EDdXawvM&t=8m30s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 20, 2016, 12:20:46 AM
Pendulum Operated Water Pump
by MSAJCE - Top Engineering College in Chennai, India
Project Demo by Students from Department of Mechanical Engineering, MSAJCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt4dLsqX_I4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 23, 2016, 12:37:06 PM
Pendulum Operated Water Pump
by MSAJCE - Top Engineering College in Chennai, India
Project Demo by Students from Department of Mechanical Engineering, MSAJCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt4dLsqX_I4
  this is the only scientifically and experimentally proven overunity, here is the link to check out http://veljkomilkovic.com/MisljenjeEng.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 09, 2016, 12:10:31 AM
New papers from India:

Microcontroller Based Performance Study Platform For Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator
http://www.ijmetmr.com/oloctober2014/smeghashyamreddy-sakjilani-32.pdf

Design and Fabrication of Hand Water Pump Operated By a Pendulum
http://ijesta.com/upcomingissue/11.04.2016.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 25, 2016, 05:08:40 PM
New pendulum pump replica from some Indian university
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BuTAXVq7Io (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BuTAXVq7Io)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on August 30, 2016, 08:47:19 PM
Pendulum Operated Water Pump
by MSAJCE - Top Engineering College in Chennai, India
Project Demo by Students from Department of Mechanical Engineering, MSAJCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt4dLsqX_I4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt4dLsqX_I4)
If you calculate the energy of the waterflow. Let's say you pump 1dl water per second from the bucket. Let's say there is 30cm from the waterlevel in the bucket to the water outlet. That is approx 1N*0,3m=0,3 J/s (Or 0,3 Watt).
The inertia of the water will counteract the pendulum with the exact amout of energy that you get from the water flow itself.
This is basic physics.
However, the pendulum mechanism is a more efficient way to pump water by hand. Because the body consumes energy also when you act static pressure with your arm to the traditional lever. And you get tired sooner. Its like the difference between cycling and walking. You can travel the same distance, but you get less tired when using the bicycle instead of walking. Is a bicycle over unity? No, but you spend energy to get in motion, and after that you will travel with little resistance. When walking, you do not continue moving after your first step. You need to take another step, then the next etc.
If you use an electric motor to do the same job, the power consumtion would be the same with the pendulum method and the traditional lever method.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 21, 2016, 08:36:19 PM
Pendulum-Gravity Motor in India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QrMoH6yfY0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 29, 2016, 03:51:59 AM
Pendulum-Gravity Motor in India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QrMoH6yfY0

yes, it is REALLY obvious that is Milkovic's pendulum oscillator and it REALLY seems they closed the loop!

my congratulations for all project participants!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on October 01, 2016, 05:05:37 PM
Pendulum-Gravity Motor in India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QrMoH6yfY0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QrMoH6yfY0)


Looks good!
Seems like they've closed the loop on this one.
It's been uploaded since December 23, 2015, I'm surprised it went unnoticed for that long!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 24, 2016, 05:19:25 PM
New papers from India


ENERGY CONVERSION PHENOMENON IN IMPLEMENTATION OF WATER LIFTING BY USING PENDULUM EFFECT
http://www.ijiert.org/admin/papers/1451753006_ICITDCEME%E2%80%9915.pdf

Design and Fabrication of Hand Water Pump with a Pendulum
http://israse.com/digital/assets/papers/1ICRASE-71.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on October 24, 2016, 06:32:59 PM
   Hi !
Old " papers " about this subject ( "Tumbling pendulum..." and " manipulating " isochrony ) on our site , it's a comment ( 2006 ) regarding Milkovic's experiments.
As a matter of fact this is a formalization of a very,very old tool for irrigation :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadoof (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadoof)
Simply , it's like a science "folklore"...of human ingenuity ( swinging leverage/lever + pendulum/ or variable/oscillatory leverage manipulating the natural isochrony of a pendulum ).

  Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 13, 2016, 03:03:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mdAvdPhT4

this can be practically used for this pendulum oscillator
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 05, 2016, 03:28:44 AM
Pendulum-Gravity Motor in India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QrMoH6yfY0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QrMoH6yfY0)

It is probably a great similarity with this patent of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/images/patents/patent4a.jpg (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/images/patents/patent4a.jpg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 28, 2017, 03:13:26 AM
We don't see this type of replica so often, but it is interesting to share...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlSidrDs21w  (from Poland)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Zephir on March 28, 2017, 12:15:31 PM
It shouldn't be difficult to construct self-looped device on Veljko Milkovic's principle with using the flywheel and transmissions - instead of some pump it could power itself. The fact nobody still demonstrated it serves as an indicia, that this principle doesn't work. It seems for me, that macroscopic mechanical systems are energy conservative - only quantum mechanical phenomena would allow overunity in principle.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on March 28, 2017, 03:07:11 PM
The fact nobody still demonstrated it serves as an indicia, that this principle doesn't work.

good point ! but some sectarian people seems to do not understand this evidence
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Zephir on March 28, 2017, 03:47:32 PM
The absence of replication serves as an indicia of failure only, not as the ultimate proof. For example, the cold fusion is quite feasible - but because mainstream physicists aren't willing to test it, they get an impression, that it doesn't work at all. This is what the pluralistic ignorance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralistic_ignorance) is called: the fringe belief in absence of phenomena based on absence its attempts for replication.

But in overunity research it's important to create the self-running/selfpowering system first. Until you have no self-running system, then you're very probably just fooling yourself. After all, until the alleged overunity effect is so weak, that it cannot power even its own system, then its practical significance will not be so great anyway.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on March 28, 2017, 04:02:57 PM
The absence of replication serves as an indicia of failure only, not as the ultimate proof
yes but the milkovic 2 so is total bullshit
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 28, 2017, 04:34:54 PM
yes but the milkovic 2 so is total bullshit
Haver you ever tried out one  of these devices installed to lift water?

If you are in or near Wales, these people have (or used to have) one:
http://www.cat.org.uk/index.html

They are quite uncanny. How can one lift so much water with so little effort?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ramset on March 28, 2017, 05:03:06 PM
Paul
do you have a specific link [water pumping claim]

I could not find it ?

Respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on March 28, 2017, 05:26:16 PM
Paul
do you have a specific link [water pumping claim]

I could not find it ?

Respectfully
Chet K
No, I looked but could not find one. You could ask them.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TinselKoala on March 28, 2017, 05:29:26 PM
Energy is stored in a swinging pendulum just as energy is stored in a rotating flywheel. You get back what you put in, minus losses. You can get the energy out at greater _power_ levels than you put it in with... over a shorter time period.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Zephir on March 28, 2017, 06:12:22 PM
Quote
They are quite uncanny. How can one lift so much water with so little effort?
Because they're lifting water along longer path, thus with smaller force. The perception of force with people is strongly nonlinear: they tend to ignore small forces because their own body has quite large weight and inertia, which they overcome at daily basis. In addition, the perception of dynamic forces is generally weaker, than this one of statical ones. The people get tired even with static force, because of character of their muscles (many lower animals don't actually exert energy for exertion of force without movement, but the people do). Therefore the force exerted during motion is perceived relatively less tiresome than the statical force of the same magnitude. The statical forces also compress and deoxygenate the tissue, wheres the dynamic force improves their oxygenation instead. Many people therefore prefer slow walking instead of just standing at place.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 31, 2017, 05:12:00 PM
Mario Gudec from Croatia recently posted his 3D video analysis of Milkovic's two-stage oscillator...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8r63Ubpcf8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 04, 2017, 07:27:16 PM
Merg, new conformation of Milkovic's invention, in Austria, you can check here http://www.oevr.at/docs/oevr-fachtagung-2017.pdf
This website http://oevr.at study "energy of the future"; Also, here you can see Milkovic replica in India where system is"closed" (classic perpetuum mobile mechanism) - earlier, this video was not available on youtube since it it was private video, now it is available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D2700B8354 or here (the same video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: burnit0017 on May 04, 2017, 09:01:14 PM
https://youtu.be/S-hKFqZkKmc

I wonder if the center shifting weight is fill with water?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 22, 2017, 04:26:18 PM
Veljko Milkovic at the Free Energy Congress in Austria

http://www.wntv.at/page/video/MTYyNTkx

...the best lecture in the opinion of the audience
http://www.oevr.at/docs/umfragen-reaktionen-fachtagung-2017.pdf
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 31, 2017, 03:52:14 PM
some new replicas from India - pendulum pumps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBYU-K8fJ2w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18G9HMfDojA

http://www.isrdo.org/AdminUploadPdf/Tricycle_Operated_Water_Purification_System_ijariie4290.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 23, 2017, 02:04:59 PM
It seems it is something similar to Milkovic's pendulum oscillator...
...maybe it was an inspiration based on this theme...

http://web.uettaxila.edu.pk/techJournal/2017/No1/8-Gravity%20Assisted%20Water%20Filtration%20Model%20for%20Flood%20Affected%20Areas%20of%20Pakistan,%20An%20Experimental%20Study.pdf

http://perlikowski.kdm.p.lodz.pl/papers/2017/Energy2017.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 12, 2017, 05:29:21 PM
One fine example of how someone from the scientific circles is benevolent and correct. They recognize what was their inspiration, although this scientific paper is not related directly to the two-stage oscillations but obviously they found some connection and inspiration from these pendulum effects…

A Review Paper on Tricycle Powered Water Filtration System
http://www.ijariie.com/AdminUploadPdf/Tricycle_Operated_Water_Purification_System_ijariie4290.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 27, 2017, 02:14:31 PM
not sure if this video was posted earlier

Pendulum generator machine closed loop system?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: FreeEnergy on July 29, 2017, 09:18:26 PM
not sure if this video was posted earlier

Pendulum generator machine closed loop system?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0)


I posted this but no one seems to care for it.

http://overunity.com/16896/pendulum-gravity-motor-in-india
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: tagor on July 30, 2017, 08:16:40 AM

I posted this but no one seems to care for it.


because gravity is conservative
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 11, 2017, 11:11:57 AM
Some more different pendulum replicas from India and Asia
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BuTAXVq7Io (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BuTAXVq7Io)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcF3z9BODDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcF3z9BODDg)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9YmgEKr8gw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9YmgEKr8gw)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2LF8J0zrQs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2LF8J0zrQs)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIetCUOR18E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIetCUOR18E)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvygWLPCjuI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvygWLPCjuI)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EgwRtTFrr8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EgwRtTFrr8)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18G9HMfDojA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18G9HMfDojA)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH_A3RwZTVw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH_A3RwZTVw)
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfN7eyI2w-4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfN7eyI2w-4)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 08, 2017, 06:39:48 PM
Mayo, here is closed system, dont talk about pumps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 23, 2017, 03:00:43 AM
Some new replicas of the two-stage oscillator...

pendulum water pump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCGgWubUinM

gravity assisted motor with Milkovic's pendulum principle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G6AuwkqOkA

more GRAM project videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/GoVertical17/videos
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 05, 2017, 04:30:50 PM
Some new papers with the pendulum drive subject…
 
Design and Development of Hand Water Pump with a Pendulum
http://www.ijemr.net/DOC/DesignAndDevelopmentOfHandWaterPumpWithAPendulum(357-361).pdf (http://www.ijemr.net/DOC/DesignAndDevelopmentOfHandWaterPumpWithAPendulum(357-361).pdf)
 
Design and Performance Analysis of Gravity Assisted Power (GAP) Generating System for Harvesting Electrical Energy
http://ijmtst.com/vol3issue4/IJMTSTTRP1023.pdf (http://ijmtst.com/vol3issue4/IJMTSTTRP1023.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 21, 2017, 04:36:49 PM
Some new replicas quoting Veljko Milkovic...

 
Free energy for the homeowner is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvhdR1uPd9U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvhdR1uPd9U)
 
Energy Saving Pendulum Water Pump....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD5hn8NXI7E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD5hn8NXI7E)
 
Pendulum-lever system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv_zExpWNOQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv_zExpWNOQ)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 12, 2017, 06:09:09 PM
In September 2016, Veljko Milkovic announced a 100,000 Serbian Dinars cash prize on his website www.veljkomilkovic.com for an experimental anti-thesis that the (elastic pendulum) oscillations were more efficient than rotations.

After more than a year, nobody submitted yet any tangible proof or a device in contrary to the above claim!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: burnit0017 on December 12, 2017, 06:17:39 PM
Hi, where  is the working proto type that is generating electricity?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 14, 2017, 08:55:27 PM
Hi, where  is the working proto type that is generating electricity?

So far the closest achievement to that was this Indian group with their pendulum gravity motor...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0)

Do you have any other example?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: burnit0017 on December 14, 2017, 09:05:55 PM
Hi, my testing had poor results. I could not find away to keep the pendulum oscillating. The bob lost kinetic energy when swinging up at the same time as the horizontal lever arm. I am dropping this configuration and started working on combining a magnet motor and overbalanced wheel.   
Title: ...
Post by: Rekonstruktor on December 16, 2017, 11:48:14 PM
burnit0017,
Do you remember this message?
I quote:
Quote
1. If the inventor repeats someone's device, then it does not do the same as the original source.
2. Makes his device carelessly and out of debris.
3. Does not understand the principle.
So the first point is your case. You always start right, and then you start making strange things! This was with a replica of W.F. Skinner, and with a replica of Milković. You'll so lifetime "jump" from one to another, stop! Come back to the site Milković and read very carefully all the information, write down all the important notes (one of which I told you before, but you ignored).

It is very difficult for me, but I translate documents into my language (I do not know not English is not Serbian), I use several translators to understand the meaning of machine translation. And after the translation I start to study, and so step by step. I'm not going to build something I do not understand. Moreover, I will not build toys with several kilograms. It will be much more than even the guys from Italy (ila67ful). Size is very important.

I hope you will hear me this time. I wish you success.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 24, 2017, 11:58:04 AM
Dear friends,
what do you think - do we have today "info war" with purpose to disorient - confuse people about free energy, because many authors in the history  claims that every Perpetuum mobile "works".. ? 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 24, 2017, 02:34:32 PM
Hi, my testing had poor results. I could not find away to keep the pendulum oscillating. The bob lost kinetic energy when swinging up at the same time as the horizontal lever arm. I am dropping this configuration and started working on combining a magnet motor and overbalanced wheel.


The pendulum does NOT self oscillate
Milkovich has to sit there and keep swinging it


The oil rigs use large motors to keep the pendulum swinging


Even Archimedes, (the real inventor, circa. 143 B.C.)
Had to set his double-fulcrum pendulum into motion.
Every time it slowed down.

The difference is, Archimedes showed his math.
He knew the real situation of this device.
We have shown the math in the early pages of this thread
No one wants to look at that.


Thousands and thousands of posts.......
Thousands of years this has been known.


The advantage is Leverage. not extra energy....

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 24, 2017, 02:40:49 PM
According to Archimedes:


(Which is easily proven, build one)


When the fulcrum is stationary the bob does not slow down
When the fulcrum moves some of the motion of the bob is
transferred according to his leverage equation,
And the bob slows down.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 28, 2017, 08:55:13 PM
 Some new scientific papers from India on Milkovic’s pendulum devices…
 
https://www.ijiert.org/admin/papers/1451753006_ICITDCEME-15.pdf (https://www.ijiert.org/admin/papers/1451753006_ICITDCEME-15.pdf)
 
http://ijrise.org/asset/archive/17ICEMTE-Mech14.pdf (http://ijrise.org/asset/archive/17ICEMTE-Mech14.pdf)
 
https://www.ijser.org/researchpaper/Fabrication-of-Pendulum-Pump.pdf (https://www.ijser.org/researchpaper/Fabrication-of-Pendulum-Pump.pdf)
 
http://ijariie.com/AdminUploadPdf/OVERVIEW_OF_MOTORISED_PENDULUM_ijariie5620.pdf (http://ijariie.com/AdminUploadPdf/OVERVIEW_OF_MOTORISED_PENDULUM_ijariie5620.pdf)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on December 30, 2017, 02:01:07 AM

someone said that

"The oil rigs use large motors to keep the pendulum swinging"

I maintain that the rotating weight is a counter weight that matches the
weight of the oil in the well such that when properly balanced only oil
being removed at the top requires work. But that counter weight also shifts
left and right and thus changes the leverage from more to less leverage as needed.

Also consider the Hand water pump
with a long handle and a weight it end - the counter balance. If the weight
was too heavy the handle would always hang down and if the weight
was too small then the handle would always stay up. But properly balanced
the handle will stay where it sops.

So the oil rig has 2 factors - the varying leverage and the rotating counter weight
that balances and unbalances the oil in the well.

What would make this device what it is supposed to be would be if the counter weight could be
rotated with a small force and then lift a larger force - it could be cascaded and would work
all on its own when looped back to itself.

What I always thought might be possible would be to sync 2 rigs together such that one weight
was rotating up and the other down and they even out the work required to turn them. It seems to
me that two wells could be pumped for the power to operate just one well.

I have tried many ways to sync two devices so that they offset each other. My best results came from the
bicycle crank like device that captured centrifical twisting force when the equal weights moved up and down
with little effort but when those weights were horizontal they would twist from the centrifical force if they were mounted
on flat pivot.

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 01, 2018, 11:56:13 PM
New book by Dr. Dennis Allen, a US mathematician and retired university professor, analyzes Veljko Milkovic’s experiments with the pendulum cart at the highest scientific level using mathematics…

WHY DOES CLASSICAL MECHANICS FORBID INERTIAL PROPULSION DEVICES WHEN THEY EVIDENTLY DO EXIST?

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dennis_Allen_Jr/publication/322303380_WHY_DOES_CLASSICAL_MECHANICS_FORBID_INERTIAL_PROPULSION_DEVICES_WHEN_THEY_EVIDENTLY_DO_EXIST_A_MAJOR_REVISION_OF_THE_AUTHOR%27S_POINT_OF_VIEW_BASED_UPON_PROF_WALTER_NOLL%27S_OBSERVATIONS_PRIOR_TO_HIS_AXIO/links/5a529520458515e7b72cb075/WHY-DOES-CLASSICAL-MECHANICS-FORBID-INERTIAL-PROPULSION-DEVICES-WHEN-THEY-EVIDENTLY-DO-EXIST-A-MAJOR-REVISION-OF-THE-AUTHORS-POINT-OF-VIEW-BASED-UPON-PROF-WALTER-NOLLS-OBSERVATIONS-PRIOR-TO-HIS-AXIOMA.pdf

This book describes the experiments Veljko Milkovic conducted many decades ago using the horizontal pendulum drive effects for testing the self-propelled vehicles with internal drive…

Cart with a pendulum - Vehicles with internal and inertial drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foY5r2TMOo

Superiority of Pendulum Drive - Potential Energy to Kinetic Energy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs

Independent Polish replica of Milkovic’s pendulum cart experiment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlSidrDs21w
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on February 02, 2018, 12:44:50 AM
The propulsion of the cart is great but what can you do with it?
if its just horizontal motion that is quite easy.
to validate this one would need to measure the work to
position the ball - lift is a measured distance giving the
work in and then measure the work  out. To measure the work
out I would use a small weight on a string and see how small
a weight could move it the same distance. Then you would
know the work out - mass times distance.....

Norman


Cart with a pendulum - Vehicles with internal and inertial drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foY5r2TMOo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foY5r2TMOo)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 09, 2018, 01:13:13 PM
New replica with the precise measuring – possible overunity?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqgTjo7LjdA
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 16, 2018, 05:10:59 PM
Merg, no "possible" but real over unity
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ramset on February 16, 2018, 06:05:18 PM
Sir
could you post a bigger view of your setup ?

I can assure you it would be a good move [to generate more interest / replication !
"your ??" vid link again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqgTjo7LjdA


much gratitude

Chet K
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 06, 2018, 12:11:45 AM
New scientific papers from Pakistan and India

http://www.ist.edu.pk/Process.aspx?CTRL=19e62cc6-08e7-45d2-a3c7-95051b8479ed&CDF_ID=a697ef5f-3fcd-4c51-ae1e-69c3c707adbb&DL=Y (http://www.ist.edu.pk/Process.aspx?CTRL=19e62cc6-08e7-45d2-a3c7-95051b8479ed&CDF_ID=a697ef5f-3fcd-4c51-ae1e-69c3c707adbb&DL=Y)
 
http://www.retechprojects.com/mechpdf/mechanism/REMF-132%20DESIGN%20AND%20FABRICATION%20OF%20EASY%20TO%20HANDLING%20HAND%20PUMP%20SYSTEM%20USING%20QUICK%20RETURN%20MECHANISM%20abstract.pdf (http://www.retechprojects.com/mechpdf/mechanism/REMF-132%20DESIGN%20AND%20FABRICATION%20OF%20EASY%20TO%20HANDLING%20HAND%20PUMP%20SYSTEM%20USING%20QUICK%20RETURN%20MECHANISM%20abstract.pdf)
 
http://www.ijiarec.com/sites/default/files/articles/IJIAREC-17-222_1847-1851.pdf (http://www.ijiarec.com/sites/default/files/articles/IJIAREC-17-222_1847-1851.pdf)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 15, 2018, 01:36:49 PM
No other topic here on overunity does not have so much scientific conformations, and proofs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on April 15, 2018, 01:55:18 PM
So after 240 pages of information and we still cannot buy a Milkovic device off the shelf.
What does that say?

I still claim that there is a lack of solid measurements.

This device works similar to the oil well pump that has a rotating counter weight that
changes the leverage as it rotates so reciprocation results.
And it has been used to pump water like a hand pump. The long arm hand pumps
I remember were largely weight/leverage balanced such that all you really needed to
do was lift the water out of the top of the pump so it flows out - it did not have to lift
the entire rod and water that went down to the bottom of the well. The rest of the water column
was balanced by the long and heavy handle. So if you replaced that heavy handle with
a wooden handle it would take more work to lift all the water up and out of the pump.

So to lift a half gallon of water several feet was no big deal once the pipe was fully
primed because the foot valve often leaked and left the water down.

Did I miss something really big?

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 23, 2018, 12:45:13 PM
Please take a look at this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0
and don't think about oil pump since this is something difference..
Oil pump does not have a pendulum, and Milkovics pendulum has specific way of working - with
scientific references and patents; Also, Milkovic made improvements with elastic pendulum.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on April 23, 2018, 11:43:23 PM
Please take a look at this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0)
and don't think about oil pump since this is something difference..
Oil pump does not have a pendulum, and Milkovics pendulum has specific way of working - with
scientific references and patents; Also, Milkovic made improvements with elastic pendulum.

I did see that but I heard no one visited the machine nor replicated it no explain how it works.
Did you?

Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 03, 2018, 12:22:34 PM
Go to milkovic's website on section "opinions on inventions":  http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/MisljenjeEng.html
and take a look about things you want.. and new informations are coming
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 09, 2018, 08:25:05 PM
 …pendulum-related papers and articles…
 
https://www.ijariit.com/manuscripts/v2i2/V2I2-1138.pdf (https://www.ijariit.com/manuscripts/v2i2/V2I2-1138.pdf)
 
https://ijret.org/volumes/2018v07/i03/IJRET20180703015.pdf (https://ijret.org/volumes/2018v07/i03/IJRET20180703015.pdf)
 
http://www.liveprojectsbuy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/MECH.protected-L.pdf (http://www.liveprojectsbuy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/MECH.protected-L.pdf)
 
http://103.99.128.12/ifost2014Pro/pdf/S2-P210.pdf (http://103.99.128.12/ifost2014Pro/pdf/S2-P210.pdf)
 
https://ac.els-cdn.com/S1877050914006711/1-s2.0-S1877050914006711-main.pdf?_tid=ccefbb47-650d-48f7-b1a3-e581156add17&acdnat=1530916204_6c3ffd2c0bf3cd2585a499e5106e9dd4 (https://ac.els-cdn.com/S1877050914006711/1-s2.0-S1877050914006711-main.pdf?_tid=ccefbb47-650d-48f7-b1a3-e581156add17&acdnat=1530916204_6c3ffd2c0bf3cd2585a499e5106e9dd4)
 
https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publication-dates/20171227/patents/EP3260701NWA1/document.pdf (https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publication-dates/20171227/patents/EP3260701NWA1/document.pdf)
 
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=B3336D26B355530ECE0BE1886C806648?doi=10.1.1.429.8097&rep=rep1&type=pdf (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=B3336D26B355530ECE0BE1886C806648?doi=10.1.1.429.8097&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
 
https://www.ijmter.com/papers/volume-3/issue-4/a-brief-study-on-pendulum-based-pump.pdf (https://www.ijmter.com/papers/volume-3/issue-4/a-brief-study-on-pendulum-based-pump.pdf)
 
https://www.irjet.net/archives/V5/i4/IRJET-V5I4312.pdf (https://www.irjet.net/archives/V5/i4/IRJET-V5I4312.pdf)
 
http://www.ijetjournal.org/Special-Issues/ICEMESM18/ICEMESM6.pdf (http://www.ijetjournal.org/Special-Issues/ICEMESM18/ICEMESM6.pdf)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 18, 2018, 02:47:16 PM
New pendulum replica work by Raymond Head (USA):
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLspX4mtBDo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLspX4mtBDo)
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvRSxMogjaw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvRSxMogjaw)
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JImN1kcu1EQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JImN1kcu1EQ)
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsGfin_ayk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsGfin_ayk)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 09, 2018, 12:13:48 PM

More from Raymond Head:


Magnetic Drive For 2 Stage Oscillator [part 1 ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y5kn-FbPRM


Magnetic Drive For 2 Stage Oscillator [part 2 ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1TmZ6yCfCo


Electro magnet switch for TSO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TKOjQKRv6Y
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 20, 2018, 06:26:47 PM
 AN ANNOUNCEMENT BY VELJKO MILKOVIC R&D CENTER:
 
Invitation for a scientific cooperation
 
Dear friends,
 
we would like to inform you that we are in possesion of patents, experimental models, analyses and know-how systems about highly efficient pendlum oscillating devices.
 
Hand Water Pump with a Pendulum     
YU 49002 B - P-577/99 (from 1999)         
patent holder: Veljko Milkovic (Serbia)       
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/images/patents/patent1a.jpg (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/images/patents/patent1a.jpg)                 
 
Electric Dynamo Generator with Pendulum and Magnets         
RS 49959 B - P-2006/0165 (from 2006) 
patent holder: Veljko Milkovic (Serbia)                   
http://www.pendulum-lever.com/images/patents/patent27eng.jpg (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/images/patents/patent27eng.jpg)     
                                                                                                                                         
After the promotion on the Internet, a positive echo was achieved.
 
Hand water pump with a pendulum in operation       
(performance by Miroslav Zubkov, vicinity of Novi Sad, Serbia, August 2004)
https://youtu.be/hNpgl7o_1QI (https://youtu.be/hNpgl7o_1QI)                                                 
 
A replica of hand water pump with a pendulum from India, Arun Sahoo, 2013           
https://youtu.be/8n7mvpLpP5A (https://youtu.be/8n7mvpLpP5A)                                         
 
Aaron Murakami presents the concept of Veljko Milkovic’s two-stage oscillator at the 2015 Energy Science & Technology Conference (USA) https://youtu.be/kbQjaTZEPjI (https://youtu.be/kbQjaTZEPjI)     
                                                                                                                                                                   
Laboratory proof of the superiority of the elastic (flexible rod) pendulum versus the electric motor
Laboratory measuring which proves the oscillation of an elastic (flexible rod) pendulum to be a hundred times longer than the rotation of an asynchronous motor – measurement performed by Prof. Slobodan Milovancev, Ph.D., Faculty of Technical Sciences, University in Novi Sad, Serbia, June 04, 2014
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Measurement_flexible_pendulum_vs._electric_motor.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Measurement_flexible_pendulum_vs._electric_motor.pdf)
 
Jovan Marjanovic, electrical engineer, 2014
 Dry Friction and the Milkovic Effect
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Dry_Friction_and_the_Milkovic_Effect.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Dry_Friction_and_the_Milkovic_Effect.pdf)
 
 
Prof. G. R. Nikhade, R.U. Patil and S. P. Bansal, 2013
 Department of Mechanical Engineering, Shri Ramdeobaba College of Engineering and Management, Nagpur, India
 Two-stage oscillator mechanism for operating a reciprocating pump
http://journalajst.com/sites/default/files/Download%201339.pdf (http://journalajst.com/sites/default/files/Download%201339.pdf)
 
According to our knowledge, all researchers around the world work according to the old concept with ball bearings. However, in recent years we have achieved better results with elastic (flexible rod) pendulum (know-how).
 
Hand water pump with an elastic pendulum tested in 2015 with different elastic materials. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xm9RPVgdw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xm9RPVgdw)                           
 
A prototype of teaching aid for schools to demonstrate the advantages of oscillations in relation to rotations, which can be inspirational for future constructors.
 
For now, we are able to produce the educational teaching aids and also to develop oscillating electric generators.
 
We are wondering if you are interested for a cooperation and affirmation of these oscillating devices?
 
Thank you and best regards.
 
 PR & Web team
 Veljko Milkovic Research & Development Center
 
 Bulevar cara Lazara 56
 21000 Novi Sad
 Serbia
 web: www.veljkomilkovic.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/) | www.pendulum-lever.com (http://www.pendulum-lever.com/) | www.samogrejnekuce.com (http://www.samogrejnekuce.com/)[/font]
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Low-Q on August 21, 2018, 10:45:06 PM
More than 12 years, and almost 1.4 million views, and still no progress?


Vidar
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on August 27, 2018, 05:27:19 AM
OK everyone, it has been a long time since I have put up a video.
I am extremely convinced that the energy required to keep these linked pendulums at a certain rpm for any given full cycle is less than the second stage energy output per that full cycle.

https://youtu.be/BE0UKLcYvt4 (https://youtu.be/BE0UKLcYvt4)

 Please check it out and tell me what you think.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: EOW on August 27, 2018, 12:34:12 PM
And you even don't count the energy to move the clouds ! Good job.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: shylo on August 28, 2018, 09:45:42 AM
What about the energy required to stretch the spring?
artv
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: MoRo on August 28, 2018, 04:13:21 PM
What about the energy required to stretch the spring?
artv
You are correct. The spring is not needed,  but merely a stop or motion limiter.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 29, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Mech Only: Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator (by some Indian group)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN2auvHYhPk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN2auvHYhPk)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 04, 2018, 09:29:43 PM
Milkovic's oscillator in usage, for crushing.. two companies use it:

https://www.brunchies.be/2017-30057-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
http://clubbarocco.be/crusher_equipment/25972.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 16, 2018, 11:52:34 AM
Latest list of companies that use Milkovic's oscillator:

https://www.brunchies.be/2017-30057-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html

https://aranart.be/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle_3596/2007.html https://aranart.be/themes/en-29/images/logo-small.png
 
https://resitecepoxyvloeren.be/byr/8831/what_is_the_principle_of_hammer_crusher/
 
http://clubbarocco.be/crusher_equipment/25972.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: F6FLT on November 16, 2018, 04:38:03 PM
Mech Only: Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator (by some Indian group)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN2auvHYhPk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN2auvHYhPk)
No OU here but a nice concept to optimize the efficiency and fatigue of a hand-maintained movement.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 19, 2018, 08:24:13 AM
Here is anotrher company with Milkovic's oscillatror in use:
https://www.project4.nl/construction/3180/pendulum-magnet-motor.html#nogo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 30, 2018, 01:25:11 PM
New list of companies that use two stage mechanical oscillator of Veljko Milkovic:

https://www.sportinghasseltjeugd.be/2014/02/4420_hammer-crusher-principle.html
https://www.vaiven.com.mx/pendulo_grinder_23714.html
http://www.sulawesigrindmill.tk/quarry/n_12114.html
http://www.ansii.in/Best_crusher/6018.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 05, 2018, 11:25:40 AM
New company with Milkovic pendulum in use: http://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 06, 2018, 06:11:06 PM
Here is some latest links about Milkovic pendulum:

http://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/
https://restaurantambiance.nl/18036_pendulum_machines.html
https://www.villadesetoiles.be/18036_pendulum/machines.html
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/g/01/01/pendulum-mass-mill-technical_456/
https://www.klip-koo.nl/complex/pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/
http://www.moneylesssociety.com/home/2018/07/05/automated-gardens-are-the-future-of-food/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Some new links with Milkovic's invention:
https://www.klip-koo.nl/complex/pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/

GMC Mining

https://www.associazionecerere.it/2013/02-11830_comple-pendulum-crusher/

TYSERVICE Indija

http://magiccreations.in/river_rock-5477-mechanical-crusher-amp-amp-conv/

Liming Indija

http://newmoon.co.in/project-4083/

LIMING Heavy Industry  Indonezija

http://entertainmentforyou.nl/capacity/5410-Machinist-Hammer-Crusher-Go-Principle/

HPT Hydraulic Cone Crusher kina/ Rusija

http://www.jesusstudio.in/granite/802-mechanical-hammer-crusher-operation-principle-/

ZNITN Mexico/China

https://www.klip-koo.nl/pendulum/magnet-for-crusher/

Liming  Zhengzhou, China

http://www.kapramarket.in/concrete_sand-4237/

M&C crushing mashine Kina

http://onlinekonto.eu/quarry-4887/principle-of-coal-hammer-crusher.html

Liming Evropa

http://www.vhmhospitals.in/Technology-8876-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/

HSK China

https://www.fieldandstudy.co.za/33793/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle_09.html

ZNCrusher Mining and Construction Machinery

https://azrascatering.co.za/chalcopyrite-hammer-crusher/machine/8404.html

Crusher Mill Thailand

http://scienceoflife.in/TGM160/8596-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/

Kefid China

http://www.realwhite.eu/plant-7202/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html














Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 29, 2018, 10:41:24 PM
New (old) paper
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280527954_Solar_based_water_pumping
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 10, 2019, 06:35:31 PM
Here is even more new links!! Milkovic pendulum usage:

https://iosi.in/Limestone/25717/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle/
http://www.bbmagico.it/cement/2018_10_08_274-gangue-grinder-silver-based-two-stage.html
https://www.restaurant-athen-eschershausen.de/2011_Aug-6820/pendulum-mill-drawbackspendulum-mill-pressure-drop/
https://www.knopsdier-tuin.nl/spring_machine_working_principle_india-14062.html
https://www.depannenkoekhorn.nl/Business/6410_gravity-machines
https://www.lsie.be/2017/Dec-11/gravity-making-machine/
https://www.chassis-renowal.be/c/Jan/6256/pendulum-centrifugal-force-millthe-working-principle-and-features-of-ball/
http://www.scalaproperties.eu/Used_crusher-2342-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://www.kunstwoensdrecht.nl/17/04/30/27864/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://museenationaldesjeuxdepaume.be/2016-May-08/17974.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 05, 2019, 11:01:14 AM
Latest links of Milkovic's pendulum:

https://restaurant-aangenaam.nl/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill_5489.html
https://www.restaurant-athen-eschershausen.de/2011_Aug-6820/pendulum-mill-drawbackspendulum-mill-pressure-drop/
https://isau.be/16167/pendulum-machine-limestone.html
https://www.cynthias-cottages.co.za/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/12075.html
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/g/01/01/pendulum-mass-mill-technical_456/
http://www.topic-aal.eu/eration/6261-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
http://wheretostudy.co.za/epc/g7JED/2015_raymond-pendulum-machine.html
http://restaurantredpepper.nl/lime1/2018-01-08/swing-oscillating-feeder-in-practical-appliion.html
https://www.notebook-heiloo.nl/ballast-crushers/2373_brief-description-abou-100-t-h-ammer-mill-in/18_10_27.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on February 05, 2019, 05:44:55 PM
OK everyone, it has been a long time since I have put up a video.
I am extremely convinced that the energy required to keep these linked pendulums at a certain rpm for any given full cycle is less than the second stage energy output per that full cycle.

https://youtu.be/BE0UKLcYvt4 (https://youtu.be/BE0UKLcYvt4)

 Please check it out and tell me what you think.

That is an excellent simulation with 2 pendulums balancing each other.  I did some things like that
where I balanced up and down but never got OU. But I am onto some Bessler wheel stuff right
now that combine several devices that has some promise. I have seen OU 3 times but each time
the further/weaker and leverage distance define work and they have always failed to have enough
extra for self running.

What simulation software are you using? I have PHUN but its limited.
Best of Luck.
Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 12, 2019, 12:46:26 PM
New links, Milkovic's pendulum usage:

https://www.chassis-renowal.be/c/Jan/6256/pendulum-centrifugal-force-millthe-working-principle-and-features-of-ball/
http://www.kapramarket.in/concrete_sand-4237/
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/g/01/01/pendulum-mass-mill-technical_456/
https://azrascatering.co.za/chalcopyrite-hammer-crusher/machine/8404.html
http://entertainmentforyou.nl/capacity/5410-Machinist-Hammer-Crusher-Go-Principle/
https://www.associazionecerere.it/2013/02-11830_comple-pendulum-crusher/
http://onlinekonto.eu/quarry-4887/principle-of-coal-hammer-crusher.html
http://jathmedu.in/16757/lindemann-kg-crushers/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 19, 2019, 08:36:50 PM
New replicas from India?

Electricity generated from pendulum mechanism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn-7BZoAoUM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggFYu7h-Fig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g4P79U9yZg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4dI0wZbzPs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh-ivcNJMxM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 20, 2019, 11:44:51 AM
New links for Milkovic's invention:

http://www.lampenistenpers.nl/feb-zinc/3019-double-stage-hammer-mill-principle-and-working.html
https://www.zedsystem.it/4098/gravity-machines/
https://www.animobelfeld.nl/31484+basic/principals/of/pulvinizer/machine.html
https://www.gent1913-1918.be/15669_basic-principals-of-pulvinizer-machine.html
http://www.istanbultips.nl/Quarry-8118/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Km_aROHdPNIJ:techvault.poornima.org/all_project.php%3Ftype%3DME+&cd=19&hl=sr-Latn&ct=clnk&gl=rs
https://www.hermanslucenco.be/Jun/11_simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 01, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
Latest links:

http://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/

https://www.cynthias-cottages.co.za/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/12075.html

https://www.sbm-mill.com/products/mb5x-mill.html?a=s2&campaign=1022417469&keyword=%2Bpendulum%20%2Bmill&dev=c&ad=322860886738&gclid=Cj0KCQiAh9njBRCYARIsALJhQkEHRCgxrHulGVF_afwqRhqKz-e8MlS6qJ8bnLtR1pQoEtDBTQ-goL0aAlolEALw_wcB

https://www.auto-opkopers.be/06-12/pendulum-machines-25186/

https://www.kreativiteitsatelier.be/28886/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill.html

https://vbl.co.za/Oct_01+pendulum-machines/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 12, 2019, 06:47:48 PM
New links:

https://babywearingballet.nl/crushing/01-18-783-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://www.adaa.in/Pendulum+Broken+Sui+Machine-1697-Mill.html
https://jorisvandenhauwe.be/pendulum_machines/11319_07/
https://www.vivifucecchio.it/Tue/10_23263/-micro-mill-pendulum/
https://www.deco-by-eve.fr/29254+gravity/machines.html
https://restaurant-aangenaam.nl/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill_5489.html
http://newmoon.co.in/project-4083/
https://ccw.org.in/2017-43557-pendulum-scrap-magnet-Fri.html
http://www.solucioneszemag.com.mx/tangerang/5984-simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
https://www.primariagrumazesti.ro/screen/1751-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/2018-11-08.html
https://www.beraca.nl/01-Thu/gravity-machines.html
http://www.hotelpratappalace.in/17427/pendulum-machines/
https://www.dentcity.co.za/mining/5404/pendulum-scrap-magnet.html
https://www.project4.nl/construction/3180/pendulum-magnet-motor.html
https://www.guesthouseonrepublic.co.za/10-2808/pendulum-mass-mill.html
https://www.interprise.in/equipment/2681-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 12, 2019, 06:49:57 PM
And new links:

https://www.animobelfeld.nl/31484+basic/principals/of/pulvinizer/machine.html
http://www.repsfitness.co.za/2019-Mar-03/zvf29z_practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html
https://www.granscuderia.it/2007_Apr_18/28443/pendulum/machines
https://www.obs-westerschool.nl/2019_02_10/22047.html
https://www.oirschot-muziek.nl/blog/00_Jan/12780/used-for-sale-parts-and-pendulum-mills-usa/
https://www.belmarpersonnel.co.za/
https://fairvanhetzuiden.nl/simple_vertical_transmission_machines_pdf_13529.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 27, 2019, 09:19:13 AM
Many new links from Milkovic:


https://iosi.in/Limestone/25717/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle/

CHINA M&C

https://iosi.in/Limestone/25717/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle/

GBM EUROPA

https://www.restaurant-athen-eschershausen.de/2011_Aug-6820/pendulum-mill-drawbackspendulum-mill-pressure-drop/

GCM INDIA

https://www.knopsdier-tuin.nl/spring_machine_working_principle_india-14062.html

SKS INDIA

https://www.depannenkoekhorn.nl/Business/6410_gravity-machines

SCMasinery CHINA

https://www.lsie.be/2017/Dec-11/gravity-making-machine/

O company CHINA

https://www.chassis-renowal.be/c/Jan/6256/pendulum-centrifugal-force-millthe-working-principle-and-features-of-ball/

SKD CHINA

http://www.scalaproperties.eu/Used_crusher-2342-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/

NATURALY india

https://www.kunstwoensdrecht.nl/17/04/30/27864/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html

Zcruser  Europa

https://museenationaldesjeuxdepaume.be/2016-May-08/17974.html

https://www.kunstwoensdrecht.nl/17/04/30/27864/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html

Zcruser  Evropa

https://museenationaldesjeuxdepaume.be/2016-May-08/17974.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 04, 2019, 09:41:02 PM
Hello to all, I have fresh new links:

https://babywearingballet.nl/crushing/01-18-783-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://www.vivifucecchio.it/Tue/10_23263/-micro-mill-pendulum/
https://www.adaa.in/Pendulum+Broken+Sui+Machine-1697-Mill.html
http://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/
https://www.animobelfeld.nl/31484+basic/principals/of/pulvinizer/machine.html
https://www.zedsystem.it/4098/gravity-machines/
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/g/01/01/pendulum-mass-mill-technical_456/
https://hummullus.nl/Mobile/7158/basic-principals-of-pulvinizer-machine.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 13, 2019, 04:00:24 PM
 DOUBLE TRIPLE OR MULTIPLE DOUBOCHINSKI PENDULUMS
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYx9QiK9Dp8
 
 https://www.youtube.com/user/DOUBOCHINSKI/videos
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 16, 2019, 07:41:37 PM
Dear friends, I have many new links:

Ball Mill

https://www.oirschot-muziek.nl/blog/00_Jan/12780/used-for-sale-parts-and-pendulum-mills-usa/

https://www.cynthias-cottages.co.za/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/12075.html

Crusher Bay

https://www.notebook-heiloo.nl/ballast-crushers/2373_brief-description-abou-100-t-h-ammer-mill-in/18_10_27.html

Global mining

https://jorisvandenhauwe.be/pendulum_machines/11319_07/

PENDULUM CENTRIFUGAL FORCE MILL

https://restaurant-aangenaam.nl/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill_5489.html

pendulum mass mill technical_eeva_新浪博客

https://www.zedsystem.it/4098/gravity-machines/

GMC

https://www.staopenweesvrij.nl/20996/output_of_barite_mechanical_device.html

STAGE STONE CRUSHING SYSTEM AMP PLANT LAY

https://www.hhontwerp.nl/2015_Nov_01-13823.html

10 micro mill pendulum

https://www.serrureriemontgeron.eu/manufacture/3175/10-micro-mill-pendulum.html

http://www.hartshillschool.co.uk/sky12/7465/7u6vw-complex-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/

http://www.seaviewps.co.za/pear39three/37486/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html

http://www.cakeoff.in/iron-1748/pendulum-machine-line.html

https://nerisushi.nl/Sep-05/pendulum-magnet-motor-24594.html

CIROS

http://catchatour.co.za/11091_raymond-equipment-pendulum.html

https://www.visitgenoa.eu/mobile/6847/pendulum-grinding-machinery.html

http://hospitalworld.in/crushervs/1656-4r3220-Improved-Pendulum-Mill/

https://jurihata.co.za/Nov-04/pendulum-machines.html

http://frachmad.in/bentong/961-very-cheap-pendulum-pulverizer.html

Crusher Machine supplier -- Leader of crusher machine manufacturer in China

http://jathmedu.in/16757/lindemann-kg-crushers/

Pendulum mill drawbacks

https://part-y.eu/24084-13/pendulum-mill-drawbacks.html

CLANNAD

http://saffet.co.za/mill-crusher/2017_pendulum-pendulum-centrifugal-force-mill/

Xinhai Mining

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zy7XCWt9oBgJ:villas-elisabeth.com/Ez2/2018-02_mining-machinery-pendulum.html+&cd=45&hl=sr-Latn&ct=clnk&gl=rs

TCM

https://www.deco-by-eve.fr/29254+gravity/machines.html

http://www.design-menuiserie.be/Jan-02_pendulum-machines.html

https://www.giogagiu.it/12/9815-is-a-pendulum-a-simple-machine-answers.html

INVENTION OF WHEEL THE STONE MILL

https://www.inot.co.in/Mining-7190/

Lindemann kg crushers

https://www.smartlimo.co.za/buy/1206/lindemann-kg-crushers/

Mechanical

https://hutleyconsulting.co.za/1315_crusher-machine-pendulum.html

https://www.rudisroses.co.za/Mar-16/Pendulum-Machines.html

https://puntovacanze.eu/Fri_2018/albancat_sand_and_graven_submersible_pumping_machine/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 19, 2019, 05:42:27 PM
Dear friends, many new links:

https://www.bchospitality.co.za/products/
https://ilmercatonline.it/10467_raymond-equipment-pendulum.html
http://www.nc29.org/2018-Dec-10/7kzno0_pendulum-machine-mining-machiner-y.html
https://maputohotel.co.za/14632-08/pendulum-grinding-labs.html
https://www.appartementenvilla-curacao.nl/2019_Jan_30754-micro-mill-pendulum.html
https://isau.be/16167/pendulum-machine-limestone.html
https://www.terrasarda.nl/2019/20158-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
http://www.villabrae.co.za/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/
https://www.corso-como.it/Aug_15/complex-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/
http://www.newlinetechnologies.co.in/jaw_crusher-5539-4R3216B-pendulum-mill-movement-seesaw-K4804.10.1-13/
https://www.architectonic.in/hydraulics/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/603-02-26.html
http://www.kapramarket.in/concrete_sand-4237/
https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-tXlBRDWARIsAGYQAmfCoo92doffbhT_Vik8VxNlztif1LvmnRDNXkzoq0wIYNeXlqkgSsgaAiDdEALw_wcB
https://pe1agf.nl/12336-raymond-equipment-pendulum.html
https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-tXlBRDWARIsAGYQAmfCoo92doffbhT_Vik8VxNlztif1LvmnRDNXkzoq0wIYNeXlqkgSsgaAiDdEALw_wcB
https://www.brunchies.be/2017-30057-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://aranart.be/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle_3596/2007.html
https://resitecepoxyvloeren.be/byr/8831/what_is_the_principle_of_hammer_crusher/
http://clubbarocco.be/crusher_equipment/25972.html
http://www.istanbultips.nl/Quarry-8118/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://www.auto-opkopers.be/06-12/pendulum-machines-25186/
https://www.kreativiteitsatelier.be/28886/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill.html
https://www.gent1913-1918.be/15669_basic-principals-of-pulvinizer-machine.html
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/g/01/01/pendulum-mass-mill-technical_456/
https://www.stichtinglievelieke.nl/33981/ron-aw-crusher-with-output-of-mm/
https://www.zedsystem.it/4098/gravity-machines/
https://www.viaequestretoscana.it/Nov-06_22828/invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/
https://www.frankvink.nl/company/4964-patent-schekovaya-drobilka-polikremniya-2018-06-27.html
https://kankerkankeren.be/molinos/molinos-pendulos-molinos.html&hl=sr-Latn&gl=rs&strip=1&vwsrc=0
https://installatiebedrijfvandalen.nl/mechanical/mechanical-hammer-crusher-operation-principle.html
https://www.bagend.co.za/Dec_03-20881.html
http://podium79.nl/6619_looking%20output%20pendulum%20pulverizer%20machine%20m%C3%A9xico.html
https://www.klip-koo.nl/complex/pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/
https://www.associazionecerere.it/2013/02-11830_comple-pendulum-crusher/
http://magiccreations.in/river_rock-5477-mechanical-crusher-amp-amp-conv/
http://newmoon.co.in/project-4083/
http://entertainmentforyou.nl/capacity/5410-Machinist-Hammer-Crusher-Go-Principle/
http://www.jesusstudio.in/granite/802-mechanical-hammer-crusher-operation-principle-/
https://www.klip-koo.nl/pendulum/magnet-for-crusher/
http://www.kapramarket.in/concrete_sand-4237/
http://onlinekonto.eu/quarry-4887/principle-of-coal-hammer-crusher.html
http://www.vhmhospitals.in/Technology-8876-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://www.fieldandstudy.co.za/33793/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle_09.html
https://azrascatering.co.za/chalcopyrite-hammer-crusher/machine/8404.html
http://scienceoflife.in/TGM160/8596-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
http://www.realwhite.eu/plant-7202/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 02, 2019, 04:33:55 PM
New links:

http://www.lampenistenpers.nl/feb-zinc/3019-double-stage-hammer-mill-principle-and-working.html
https://www.zedsystem.it/4098/gravity-machines/
https://www.animobelfeld.nl/31484+basic/principals/of/pulvinizer/machine.html
https://www.gent1913-1918.be/15669_basic-principals-of-pulvinizer-machine.html
http://www.istanbultips.nl/Quarry-8118/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Km_aROHdPNIJ:techvault.poornima.org/all_project.php%3Ftype%3DME+&cd=19&hl=sr-Latn&ct=clnk&gl=rs
https://www.hermanslucenco.be/Jun/11_simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 03, 2019, 08:00:11 PM
Pendulum Operated Water Pump | Mechanical Mini project

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLbKBr38SU

One important feature of a pump with a pendulum is that the work is alleviated or in simple terms it makes work rather easier when is compared with a traditional hand water pump. It is due to this underlined feature which enables the pendulum pump to be used as an efficient mode in the irrigation of smaller lots, water-wells and can also be used in extinguishing fires even by old people and children. By the use of pendulum based water pumping system we can increase the efficiency of the plant and reduce the effort, cost of production, production time, manpower requirement.


Working Principle

The oscillation of pendulum has dynamic action of forces. When pendulum is at the extreme ends, the component of force acting on the lever due to pendulum is minimum level and lever is at extreme high position on pendulum side due to action of counter weights. While, when the pendulum is in motion & is at middle position, the force due to pendulum is maximum level & lever is at extreme low position as forces exceed that of the counter weights. Repetition of this phenomenon is the principle of working of the project.

Oscillation of the pendulum is the input to the model. These oscillations will cause the lever to oscillate about its pivot point. The other end of lever as connected to the rod of the pump; causes it to reciprocate thus giving the pumping action.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 03, 2019, 08:14:40 PM
Group no 05 2018 19 Pendulam Operated Pump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyvA_8BFCW0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyvA_8BFCW0) 

pendulum pump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxeKH1QjoMU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxeKH1QjoMU)
 
Pendulum operated water pump_mechanical projects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46YpZGdavTA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46YpZGdavTA)
 
Pendulum based water pumping system / Pendulum Operated Water Pump / pendulum hand water pump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzeOhJL_uTg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzeOhJL_uTg)
 
Milkovic Pendlum at Santa's Workshop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Ts5lTGNic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Ts5lTGNic)
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: burnit0017 on May 03, 2019, 08:28:18 PM
https://youtu.be/5e5bpB1gPHQ

Hi, I am adding springs. I will use a pulse motor to keep the pendulum moving.

https://youtu.be/fPoXnyvTxXA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 07, 2019, 09:36:25 PM
New links!

https://www.obs-westerschool.nl/2019_02_10/22047.html
https://www.kismad.be/Sat-9481/welcome-to-the-world-of-pendulum-power-veljko-milkovic.html
https://www.cmb-pe.nl/pendulum/centrifugal/force/mill_13240.html
http://fve2017.org/Dq1/2017-05_top-magnetic-generator-plans.html
https://fairvanhetzuiden.nl/simple_vertical_transmission_machines_pdf_13529.html
http://jathmedu.in/16757/lindemann-kg-crushers/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 15, 2019, 01:56:10 PM
Dear friends, new links:

https://schoenmakerij-jandrenth.nl/2017_Nov_30-17973.html
https://www.adaa.in/Pendulum+Broken+Sui+Machine-1697-Mill.html
https://www.bruisendcentrum.nl/Stone/30461/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://www.bagend.co.za/Dec_03-20881.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 20, 2019, 12:53:31 PM
New links dear friends:

https://www.bagend.co.za/Dec_03-20881.html
https://www.cynthias-cottages.co.za/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/12075.html
https://www.oirschot-muziek.nl/blog/00_Jan/12780/used-for-sale-parts-and-pendulum-mills-usa/
http://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.viaequestretoscana.it/Nov-06_22828/invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/
http://podium79.nl/6619_looking%20output%20pendulum%20pulverizer%20machine%20m%C3%A9xico.html
https://puntovacanze.eu/Fri_2018/albancat_sand_and_graven_submersible_pumping_machine/
https://iosi.in/Limestone/25717/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle/
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/g/01/01/pendulum-mass-mill-technical_456/
http://entertainmentforyou.nl/capacity/5410-Machinist-Hammer-Crusher-Go-Principle/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 27, 2019, 12:11:45 PM
New, latest links:

https://silkroad-marignac.ch/gravity/machines-20197.html
https://www.zedsystem.it/4098/gravity-machines/
http://www.istanbultips.nl/Quarry-8118/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
http://jathmedu.in/16757/lindemann-kg-crushers/
http://www.villabrae.co.za/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/
https://www.chassis-renowal.be/c/Jan/6256/pendulum-centrifugal-force-millthe-working-principle-and-features-of-ball/
https://www.beraca.nl/01-Thu/gravity-machines.html
https://www.terrasarda.nl/2019/20158-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://www.tajlodge.co.za/34379/pendulum-machines/
https://www.oirschot-muziek.nl/blog/00_Jan/12780/used-for-sale-parts-and-pendulum-mills-usa/
https://www.belmarpersonnel.co.za/
https://fairvanhetzuiden.nl/simple_vertical_transmission_machines_pdf_13529.html
https://babywearingballet.nl/crushing/01-18-783-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://www.adaa.in/Pendulum+Broken+Sui+Machine-1697-Mill.html
https://jorisvandenhauwe.be/pendulum_machines/11319_07/
https://www.vivifucecchio.it/Tue/10_23263/-micro-mill-pendulum/
https://www.deco-by-eve.fr/29254+gravity/machines.html
https://restaurant-aangenaam.nl/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill_5489.html
http://newmoon.co.in/project-4083/
https://www.project4.nl/construction/3180/pendulum-magnet-motor.html
https://www.guesthouseonrepublic.co.za/10-2808/pendulum-mass-mill.html
https://www.interprise.in/equipment/2681-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
http://www.repsfitness.co.za/2019-Mar-03/zvf29z_practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html
https://www.granscuderia.it/2007_Apr_18/28443/pendulum/machines
https://www.obs-westerschool.nl/2019_02_10/22047.html
https://ccw.org.in/2017-43557-pendulum-scrap-magnet-Fri.html
http://www.solucioneszemag.com.mx/tangerang/5984-simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
https://www.primariagrumazesti.ro/screen/1751-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/2018-11-08.html
https://www.beraca.nl/01-Thu/gravity-machines.html
http://www.hotelpratappalace.in/17427/pendulum-machines/
https://www.dentcity.co.za/mining/5404/pendulum-scrap-magnet.html
https://www.brunchies.be/2017-30057-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://aranart.be/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle_3596/2007.html
https://resitecepoxyvloeren.be/byr/8831/what_is_the_principle_of_hammer_crusher/
http://clubbarocco.be/crusher_equipment/25972.html
https://www.project4.nl/construction/3180/pendulum-magnet-motor.html#nogo
https://www.sportinghasseltjeugd.be/2014/02/4420_hammer-crusher-principle.html
https://www.vaiven.com.mx/pendulo_grinder_23714.html
http://www.sulawesigrindmill.tk/quarry/n_12114.html
http://www.ansii.in/Best_crusher/6018.html
http://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/
https://restaurantambiance.nl/18036_pendulum_machines.html
https://www.villadesetoiles.be/18036_pendulum/machines.html
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/g/01/01/pendulum-mass-mill-technical_456/
https://www.klip-koo.nl/complex/pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/
https://www.klip-koo.nl/complex/pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/
https://www.associazionecerere.it/2013/02-11830_comple-pendulum-crusher/
http://magiccreations.in/river_rock-5477-mechanical-crusher-amp-amp-conv/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 04, 2019, 12:07:01 AM
Some new links:

https://www.vanoersgroup.eu/1439891165_gravity-machines.html
https://ccw.org.in/2017-43557-pendulum-scrap-magnet-Fri.html
https://twentemice.nl/Nov/17/pendulum-centrifugal-force-mill.html
https://www.visitgenoa.eu/mobile/6847/pendulum-grinding-machinery.html
http://www.hartshillschool.co.uk/sky12/7465/7u6vw-complex-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/
http://scienceoflife.in/TGM160/8596-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 09, 2019, 05:43:46 AM
New links dear friends:

http://www.ansii.in/Best_crusher/6018.html
https://www.sportinghasseltjeugd.be/2014/02/4420_hammer-crusher-principle.html
https://www.staopenweesvrij.nl/20996/output_of_barite_mechanical_device.html
https://www.adaa.in/Pendulum+Broken+Sui+Machine-1697-Mill.html
http://www.lampenistenpers.nl/feb-zinc/3019-double-stage-hammer-mill-principle-and-working.html
https://www.vaiven.com.mx/pendulo_grinder_23714.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 15, 2019, 07:27:58 PM
Few new links:

https://isau.be/16167/pendulum-machine-limestone.html
https://www.deco-by-eve.fr/29254+gravity/machines.html
https://www.sportinghasseltjeugd.be/2014/02/4420_hammer-crusher-principle.html
https://resitecepoxyvloeren.be/contact.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 22, 2019, 08:27:11 PM
Links:

https://www.staopenweesvrij.nl/20996/output_of_barite_mechanical_device.html
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/g/01/01/pendulum-mass-mill-technical_456/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 26, 2019, 02:18:26 PM
Latest links:

https://www.smartlimo.co.za/buy/1206/lindemann-kg-crushers/?fbclid=IwAR0Vx0xjjew6O9IP3dEWAceKaR2KmOy5OvknIsFpFRT7asJ8VBM5e4ofrIs

https://www.chihuahuawereld.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-14207.html?fbclid=IwAR2h9xJ1X6alSqmI4NOHtjgSMWfX1gXIZVIqKzrC9OGVxNlZkYBwVNvQ8vc

http://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/?fbclid=IwAR0aAYkTa3vNNizSUOq7miGhsPiZx_rw9Ui7ed81351TtWtZtXuuaVz7pDw

https://www.notebook-heiloo.nl/ballast-crushers/2373_brief-description-abou-100-t-h-ammer-mill-in/18_10_27.html?fbclid=IwAR0k8UYC_fOhwtzQQLdUtmtFjz3igqMCOmkqhpW7pk4Qxof1TtL6KMUM9jo

http://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/?fbclid=IwAR0aAYkTa3vNNizSUOq7miGhsPiZx_rw9Ui7ed81351TtWtZtXuuaVz7pDw

https://www.chihuahuawereld.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-14207.html?fbclid=IwAR2h9xJ1X6alSqmI4NOHtjgSMWfX1gXIZVIqKzrC9OGVxNlZkYBwVNvQ8vc




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 30, 2019, 06:53:18 PM
Three new links:

https://aranart.be/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle_3596/2007.html
https://resitecepoxyvloeren.be/contact.html
https://www.project4.nl/construction/3180/pendulum-magnet-motor.html#nogo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: NathanCoppedge on July 01, 2019, 06:40:50 AM
My impression is Millkovic has a lot of funding from demonstrations and lectures, but his inventions are not promising.

He may even have a lot of undesired pressure on him from some government or other to exaggerate his work.

A much more promising design is based on the energy storage system of Elon Musk: https://overunity.com/18261/elon-musk-perpetual-motion-machine/msg535945/#new (https://overunity.com/18261/elon-musk-perpetual-motion-machine/msg535945/#new)

---Nathan Larkin Coppedge
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: NathanCoppedge on July 01, 2019, 06:49:34 AM
In the end, we need a clear figure for work done, energy
output per second. We need a wattage.
Paul.

My impression is Millkovic has a lot of funding from demonstrations and lectures, but his inventions are not promising.

He may even have a lot of undesired pressure on him from some government or other to exaggerate his work.

A much more promising design is based on the energy storage system of Elon Musk: https://overunity.com/18261/elon-musk-perpetual-motion-machine/msg535945/#new (https://overunity.com/18261/elon-musk-perpetual-motion-machine/msg535945/#new)

---Nathan Larkin Coppedge
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 02, 2019, 10:22:42 PM
New links:

https://www.helmgrasplanters.nl/20260_two+stage+mill+machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR10MX7P_leM28M-7G9rQWdUZ82snavlVDQhf78jXCdHe1GTxMYFKPL_ZdA

https://www.thsaes.nl/296/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR2T9ybGgx787My74Mu1aX7seDS8385q_af7jqQc1p81P5BPpQ65pQmGDTw

https://www.stichtinglichter.nl/2012/03/16/38904/two-stage-mill-machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR3mTS5utvyBshIWWAOh7P_t6bkeKt-bLmGr5p9IrJlrg-9hDAMeVAxY-VA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 04, 2019, 08:08:00 PM
New link:

https://hetkaboutertje.nl/15610_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html?fbclid=IwAR3B_Wa9cQb98tTvuna022RCD-H5xEQcqZey-0zf6_R7S0m5ktOOHWZJeuM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 08, 2019, 12:02:47 PM
New links:

https://www.scuolamediasantamariavico.it/pendulum/mass/mill/technical_26741.html

https://www.oirschot-muziek.nl/blog/00_Jan/12780/used-for-sale-parts-and-pendulum-mills-usa/

https://aimuliniresort.it/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/5671.html

http://www.doubleblended.nl/

https://schoenmakerij-jandrenth.nl/2017_Nov_30-17973.html

https://www.ik-ikt.nl/complex+pendulum+crusher+assembly+drawing-3495.html?fbclid=IwAR01-vXvF9Ray9wMsxiBmfycXYCY93gQ9IajQzICuRgrKkCiM2ycBtm4Mks

https://www.thsaes.nl/296/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR2T9ybGgx787My74Mu1aX7seDS8385q_af7jqQc1p81P5BPpQ65pQmGDTw

https://hetkaboutertje.nl/15610_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html?fbclid=IwAR3u2oki1VZ4FkgeYtOXzSdAdDPX19JEH3CnzYDtH8UZqbZ2N3rJXAlShu8

https://www.stichtinglichter.nl/2012/03/16/38904/two-stage-mill-machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR3mTS5utvyBshIWWAOh7P_t6bkeKt-bLmGr5p9IrJlrg-9hDAMeVAxY-VA

http://www.cbdrink.be/2097/pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html

https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html

http://www.lampenistenpers.nl/feb-zinc/3019-double-stage-hammer-mill-principle-and-working.html

https://www.chassis-renowal.be/c/Jan/6256/pendulum-centrifugal-force-millthe-working-principle-and-features-of-ball/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 15, 2019, 02:54:40 PM
Two links:

https://tabulafirmus.nl/penghancur/20097/pendulum-raymond-energi.html
http://www.ijiarec.com/sites/default/files/articles/IJIAREC-17-222_1847-1851.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on July 15, 2019, 05:50:28 PM
 Hi !
Take a look at : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadoof (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadoof)
                       https://prezi.com/m/7pygwkark-wh/egyptian-shadoof/ (https://prezi.com/m/7pygwkark-wh/egyptian-shadoof/)
What is the modern science up here?...what is the ancient skill,knowledge ?!
History repeats itself ,this time..."on paper"?!
Discovery can be a long game with imagination ...the rediscovery is a real joy of the life.
As Sir Isaac Newton said : "If  I have ever made any valuable discoveries , it has been owing more in patient attention , than to any other talent ".
 Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on July 15, 2019, 06:10:47 PM
Is it not  just a  mechanical  lever?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on July 16, 2019, 04:57:31 PM
  Hi Paul-R !
The "new" Milkovic's Dual mechanical oscillatation system is nothing more than the so  old Shadoof ,or  a lever+a hanging mass (pendulum) , as an abstract mechanics.
You can play it with two sticks(one as a lever , one as a swinging pendulum).
Alexander Calder made a huge development of this concept with his kinetic sculptures.
Two Germans exhibited a well-known toy(/two/swinging sticks) , as an illusion of a gravity continuous unbalance...a pleasant illusion is better than a censorious reality !?
  Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 17, 2019, 12:33:07 PM
Links:

https://www.appartementenvilla-curacao.nl/2019_Jan_30754-micro-mill-pendulum.html?fbclid=IwAR0s3O30nu5Yw_X17StJ7uUs45JHW9HL80uKqc2ZDLOcry98L6k8-m1Mfqk

https://www.alupoint.eu/high/8398/7200118-hammer-crusher.html?fbclid=IwAR1KEYoTaFDsvCH-d9tlq2HmEsofDswP6TtCXWY9u-4XHkGcXzdKs64vB7k
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 19, 2019, 12:05:09 PM
Link from National Geographic:

https://www.nationalgeographic.rs/vesti/3745-ucenje-fizickih-principa-pomocu-kugli-i-klatna-video.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 22, 2019, 04:56:25 PM
Some companies that mention and sell the invention of Veljko Milkovic
have the address protection. Websites also have a friendly address,
called a URL and an IP address.

https://www.fieldandstudy.co.za/33793/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle_09.html
http://www.vhmhospitals.in/Technology-8876-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://www.klip-koo.nl/complex/pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/
http://newmoon.co.in/project-4083/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 24, 2019, 01:54:28 AM
New link:

https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html?fbclid=IwAR1yvpQrQ65sPIzj_zVVpm2KcvQyzta4dCnwlnAhNzMSA4eaglHq4p4O1Co
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 26, 2019, 11:22:46 PM
New replicas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSqVErpN-4U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1hDZ2gxP6I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sKSQFHioGI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyvA_8BFCW0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLbKBr38SU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 30, 2019, 12:45:36 PM
New links:

https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html?fbclid=IwAR1yvpQrQ65sPIzj_zVVpm2KcvQyzta4dCnwlnAhNzMSA4eaglHq4p4O1Co
https://www.haarlemsbouwplannen.nl/Aug/07_17578.html
https://www.thsaes.nl/296/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html
https://hetkaboutertje.nl/15610_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://www.psychopastoralehulp.nl/en/2000_Jan/49082_mechanical_press_for_crushing/
http://www.soutpansbergchamber.co.za/lo6807/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine_18701/
https://www.kopieerservice-meppel.nl/copper/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/18596/
https://www.centraalwonenzwolle.nl/guidance/2181/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://silkroad-marignac.ch/gravity/machines-20197.html
https://atpilates.co.za/Oct-26/pendulum-machine-limestone.html
https://www.cmb-pe.nl/pendulum/centrifugal/force/mill_13240.html
https://www.baccablurelax.it/13_Mar_Thu/pendulum_cutting_eqipment-5286.html
http://www.aumilieudenullepartweris.be/17usa/5233/mining-oscillating-machine-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.kismad.be/Sat-9481/welcome-to-the-world-of-pendulum-power-veljko-milkovic.html
https://www.visitgenoa.eu/mobile/6847/pendulum-grinding-machinery.html
https://www.helmgrasplanters.nl/20260_two+stage+mill+machinery.html
http://www.solucioneszemag.com.mx/tangerang/5984-simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
https://fairvanhetzuiden.nl/simple_vertical_transmission_machines_pdf_13529.html
https://www.comfort-immobilien.ch/2748_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://www.osteriadonada.ch/2005/Mar/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/9787.html
https://hotelyogabadrinath.in/Jun-20/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-12531.html
https://chantysresort.co.za/Jun-18+pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://isau.be/16167/pendulum-machine-limestone.html 
http://milliontrees.co.za/Can/15798/efficient-durable-pendulum-machine.html 
http://www.restaurantindiana.ch/Basic/20419_Basic-Principals-Of-Pulvinizer-Machine.html 
https://www.knutselko.nl/09-9814-nirmix-cement-plants-work-rajasthan-cement-plants.html
https://www.onlinepakketlabel.nl/10_10/two-stage-mill-machinery_32215.html 
 https://www.zadamuz.nl/3301/mechanical_Hammer_Crusher_CM42operation_principle.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 30, 2019, 03:39:35 PM
New paper on the two-stage oscillator:

Motor Operated Pendulum Pump - a Review
http://ijariie.com/AdminUploadPdf/MOTOR_OPERATED_PENDULUM_PUMP_ijariie9449.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 05, 2019, 02:03:27 PM
Nex links about Milkovic Pendulum:

Cncrusher-kompanija Grusia

https://aranart.be/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle_3596/2007.html

BYR-kompanija India

https://resitecepoxyvloeren.be/byr/8831/what_is_the_principle_of_hammer_crusher/

SKY machinery China

https://www.project4.nl/construction/3180/pendulum-magnet-motor.html#nogo

GME Mexico

https://www.vaiven.com.mx/pendulo_grinder_23714.html

Bagaimana Sungai machine Indonesia

http://www.sulawesigrindmill.tk/quarry/n_12114.html

GBM machinery Russsia

http://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/

GMC Mining

https://www.associazionecerere.it/2013/02-11830_comple-pendulum-crusher/

ZNCrusher Mining and Construction Machinery

https://azrascatering.co.za/chalcopyrite-hammer-crusher/machine/8404.html

Crusher Mill Tajland

http://scienceoflife.in/TGM160/8596-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 05, 2019, 03:10:50 PM
Bedini Style Veljko Milkovic Inspired Pump Update for Russ Greis 8-2-18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6nE_XWYVJM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 07, 2019, 01:08:34 PM
A few links and photos in attachment:

https://www.baccablurelax.it/13_Mar_Thu/pendulum_cutting_eqipment-5286.html?fbclid=IwAR3l-Lx4hY90QJea4UV1B4dAV5YE30ZxNKoBfdziGl3ioIpuacEoqOl90iE

https://www.balieieper.be/5350_gravity-machine/?fbclid=IwAR3oPCLeo9fe3d4aZ3YlflYRwDBO0-wBH4mkYsBlZiEhWsNU1j8yxDwD5-E
________________
Company links where Veljko Milkovic is mentioned but cannot be opened - are in attachment
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 12, 2019, 01:12:02 PM
Latest links:

https://www.vbvo.nl/mechanical_hammer_crusher_operation_principle/33512/?fbclid=IwAR0ZAsEXBZW8gwRM2S10-o7TnjpgvMhxz7fOTFR2K4Q7Z1RKe_CFfqcaDKM

https://www.gruppoetis.it/12255-two_stage_mill_machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR0wnvwertpe3K6aqFdhrE9tRfcjfBO9U-a348Md0qc548amL9U3A0da0_Y

https://www.psychopastoralehulp.nl/en/2000_Jan/49082_mechanical_press_for_crushing/

http://www.cbdrink.be/2097/pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html

https://www.granscuderia.it/2007_Apr_18/28443/pendulum/machines

https://www.scuolamediasantamariavico.it/pendulum/mass/mill/technical_26741.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 20, 2019, 03:12:56 PM
New links:

https://aimuliniresort.it/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/5671.html

https://appartement-zellersee.nl/themes/project98en/images/logo.png

https://appartement-zellersee.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html

http://www.doubleblended.nl/sale/10148.html

https://www.knutselko.nl/09-9814-nirmix-cement-plants-work-rajasthan-cement-plants.html

https://www.wood-tech.co.za/metal_metal.html

https://teamambacht.nl/en/2000/01/12501/pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html

https://prominent-mems.eu/images/head-footer/logo.jpg

https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html

https://www.bruisendcentrum.nl/Stone/30461/two-stage-mill-machinery.html

https://www.stichtingveilignederland.nl/5171+Recycling+Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html

http://www.lampenistenpers.nl/themes/yingwen4/img/page-banner.jpg

http://www.lampenistenpers.nl/feb-zinc/3019-double-stage-hammer-mill-principle-and-working.html
 
https://www.alupoint.eu/high/8398/7200118-hammer-crusher.html?fbclid=IwAR1KEYoTaFDsvCH-d9tlq2HmEsofDswP6TtCXWY9u-4XHkGcXzdKs64vB7k

https://www.onlinepakketlabel.nl/themes/zuozhan-75/images/logo.jpg

https://www.onlinepakketlabel.nl/10_10/two-stage-mill-machinery_32215.html

https://www.lvsh.nl/images/logo.jpg

https://www.lvsh.nl/double-stage-hammer-mill-principle-and-working/20180.html

http://www.individueleopvang.be/8844_complex-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing.html

https://www.gitedesvignes.ch/14-07/34056-splintered-two-stage-machine/

http://scienceoflife.in/TGM160/8596-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/

https://ilmercatonline.it/10467_raymond-equipment-pendulum.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 21, 2019, 02:39:58 PM
Read this !

https://tabulafirmus.nl/penghancur/20097/pendulum-raymond-energi.html?fbclid=IwAR1BFaJZoAJQ1F7mADZ_bEBoCRyxnv1gaAGNKtNYe4HU-P5EUD1MiIO8ooY

How children from the Far East write about Veljko Milkovic:

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_7824c27301019750.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 26, 2019, 01:09:44 PM
New links:

https://www.suntuk.nl/1998-10-27-12466-two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://www.suikerbakkerijdoesburg.nl/simple/simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 27, 2019, 07:58:11 PM
New links:

https://tabulafirmus.nl/penghancur/20097/pendulum-raymond-energi.html?fbclid=IwAR3FoKwaj8_WZ7gRRcAaRjNn3KLbZdiYRzaamR_EySWql96OFxmDp9vi2lA

https://www.kaashoekheftrucksentractoren.nl/6802/showcrusher_brief-description-abou-100-t-h-ammer-mill-in.html?fbclid=IwAR1wX3Pza28et5-2B-PGxt9APPyNTaHlIw7-msfJVhvlALTpbVZ4-04RBhk

https://www.cobyvandenbrink.nl/categorie/17382-pendulum-grinder-millchina.html?fbclid=IwAR3MAQSqTCoFvILKmKdztQD03HjTas0w7ZKsmaNQ17FlGq6q11S_CeFYFdY

https://www.kinesis-nh.nl/2002-02-08/two-stage-mill-machinery/1233.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kK0I0tYP8jYJ:https://www.lesinavacanze.it/pendulum/centrifugal/force/mill_27533.html+&cd=16&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://www.lieke-air.be/07/11/33182/two-stage-mill-machinery/
https://menuiserie-dawant.be/19489/pendulum-centrifugal-force-mill/
https://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.beraca.nl/01-Thu/gravity-machines.html
http://www.katebuilders.in/invention_of_wheel_the_stone_mill-22474.html
https://www.suikerbakkerijdoesburg.nl/simple/simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
https://www.pizzbus.fr/Nov_35795/gravity-making-machine/
https://www.jagueysystems.com.mx/pendulo/grinder/
https://www.zeeuwsestroom.nl/11763/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic/
https://www.jacquelinestichting.nl/menu/34772/n-molotkovaya-melnica-masina.html
https://brasseriededruif.be/33778_pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill.html
http://www.solucioneszemag.com.mx/tangerang/5984-simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
https://www.suntuk.nl/1998-10-27-12466-two-stage-mill-machinery.html

   
   
   
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 31, 2019, 03:47:44 PM
Experimental Investigation of Energy Production by Using Pendulum
http://irejournals.com/formatedpaper/1701561.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 02, 2019, 01:24:56 PM
New links:

https://www.cafe-devalk.be/Mon-12/17411/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/?fbclid=IwAR3jOhWsSSMnPpEiYh0WSXtH-1ON0O-tM49MD4e4dKmB0O2jQTHBNugwWtc 

https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html?fbclid=IwAR03g59RXIOctS5vjLk7IFVoWYLtSNOfvLpIA6zBZsLawR0AC7tsnxUO4Ls
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 03, 2019, 06:42:26 PM
New links:

https://www.baeckerei-meissner.de/two_stage_mill_machinery_23495.html
http://wildwisdoms.nl/a/News/double_stage_hammer_mill_69438.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 07, 2019, 01:15:10 PM
Two new links:

https://imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
https://www.ristorantecorona.ch/en/two-stage-mill-machinery/3022/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 10, 2019, 03:33:50 PM
Links:

https://www.inlegzolenexpert.nl/Eria/shebang-pendulum-mill-company/21027.html
https://www.staopenweesvrij.nl/20996/output_of_barite_mechanical_device.html
https://durbanvillegardenclub.co.za/33142-pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
https://www.wonenindrienerstaete.nl/May_16/6649/simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
https://www.eilandenarnhem.nl/invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill-28460.html
https://www.lesptitsfontains.fr/news/gravity_machine
https://isau.be/16167/pendulum-machine-limestone.html
https://www.visitgenoa.eu/mobile/6847/pendulum-grinding-machinery.html
https://www.dlmusicas.pw/mp3/rohndoe.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on September 11, 2019, 08:38:55 PM
Your quest is over kratkaforma, I have mecanized the Lee Tseung theory into a rotary device.

You may now proceed in telling the world.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 14, 2019, 10:48:43 PM
New Milkovic links:

https://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/?fbclid=IwAR0IU67j9KTUUOpzEk2Bo33UsC8FvJd8OHXWudRIHKHferaDRVG-BRkoK14

https://www.stoffelhoeve.nl/2017/05_28/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/?fbclid=IwAR0508iXSdpmYLC7IWxH-mryMHk-xeXfYC6WjlecPyWOsrLujZJsI19z0KE

https://www.gent1913-1918.be/15669_basic-principals-of-pulvinizer-machine.html
________________________________
ARMCORTEX - give mi more details, links..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on September 15, 2019, 12:35:26 AM
https://overunity.com/18226/physicist-needed-will-this-self-loop/

indulge in beautiful writing style.

On my YT, every demo represents a mechanical arrangement that is possible.

My insiration was mostly De palma and Bobby Amarasingham, the question is if 2 motors in a seesaw fashion would produce more power than their sums.

This is my own idea, and would require a flexible shaft, this causes loss.

Unfortunately, these people, including Tewari, were all frauds, so I am stuck trying to innovate something, nothing can be trusted.

Stuff like that, but this things dont have sharp enough impulse.

With these systems, direct constant loading is dampener and will kill the oscillation, this is why Milkovic dont interest me, I dont like back and forth movement.

I think taking power from centrifugal force can remedy this if an external impulse or effort can be used to efficiently rotate unbalanced bob weight. If frequency and phase cohesion can be maintained, perhaps HP at a locked frequency could be generated at a cheaper price.

Certainly a motor could never be installed here, it would be way too flimsy and dampen things, mechanically this machine is already a stretch to accomplish.

These unbalanced weights however...its insane how they like to turn, 100kg weight you can get spinning in no time if you lift it up once.

Orbital systems, and flywheels, under impulse, are still not well defined by newtonian physics.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 17, 2019, 11:27:11 PM
New Milovic's links:

https://fairvanhetzuiden.nl/simple_vertical_transmission_machines_pdf_13529.html

https://klarinetlesinwinsum.nl/964-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html

https://twentemice.nl/Nov/17/pendulum-centrifugal-force-mill.html

https://www.exportselectduitsland.nl/3788/7200118-hammer-crusher/

http://www.restaurantindiana.ch/Basic/20419_Basic-Principals-Of-Pulvinizer-Machine.html

https://www.hotelmeranda.it/2018_pendulum+centrifugal+force+mill_21680.html

https://atpilates.co.za/Oct-26/pendulum-machine-limestone.html

https://hotelyogabadrinath.in/Jun-20/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-12531.html
 
https://www.lesinavacanze.it/pendulum/centrifugal/force/mill_27533.html?fbclid=IwAR2OXhBzCuQB1hwIJK-nHdiwGH2jS1e3E9lj0ZCht6Rcj6SV5u9wka8rx28

  https://www.onlinepakketlabel.nl/10_10/two-stage-mill-machinery_32215.html?fbclid=IwAR2uw7RKWXQ1v7Lx_LuXMkgg8N_ 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 23, 2019, 01:48:09 PM
Links:

https://www.legrandbleu-plongee.be/2014/21465/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 25, 2019, 05:27:28 PM
Latest Veljko Milkovic links:

https://www.steigerhoutonline.be/913/Aggregate/Two_Stage_Mill_Machinery.html#
https://www.slachthuissonsbeek.nl/36657+two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.auto-opkopers.be/06-12/pendulum-machines-25186/
https://www.wo1bornem.be/Dec-20/complex-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/26138.html#live_forsks
http://smd125.ch/34373-two-stage-mill-machinery.html
http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
https://www.gootschoon.nl/04-14/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 02, 2019, 12:14:15 PM
More links:

https://www.thsaes.nl/296/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR2T9ybGgx787My74Mu1aX7seDS8385q_af7jqQc1p81P5BPpQ65pQmGDTw

https://expoblinds.co.za/double/stage/hammer/mill/principle/and/working/34203.html
https://www.legrandbleu-plongee.be/2014/21465/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://www.ipverbergen.nl/requirement/5991/gravity-making-machine.html
https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://www.neurinox.eu/2018/Apr/22401/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 02, 2019, 06:07:11 PM
Even more new links:

https://korsika-traumurlaub.de/2016-Sep/gravity-machines.html 
https://www.karinzwaving.nl/complex_pendulum_crusher_assembly_drawing/cost/9395/
https://www.91restaurant.ca/SHE/mining-pendulum-machine-900.html
https://bittner-schreml.de/08_28-9491.html
https://natuurvoedingsadviseuse.nl/2002/203-invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GXNmHQyd5DEJ:https://musikfreunde-zuerich-hottingen.ch/machinery/hand-operated--report-139720190216.html+&cd=35&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://www.prism-prod.be/Apr/23/pendulum-centrifugal-force-mill.html
https://keuken-boiler.nl/where/2nd/stage/hammer/mill/is/required/19696.html
https://www.wood-tech.co.za/metal_metal.html
https://durbanvillegardenclub.co.za/33142-pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
http://wildwisdoms.nl/a/News/double_stage_hammer_mill_69438.html

https://www.cobyvandenbrink.nl/categorie/17382-pendulum-grinder-millchina.html?fbclid=IwAR3MAQSqTCoFvILKmKdztQD03HjTas0w7ZKsmaNQ17FlGq6q11S_CeFYFdY

http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
https://www.stoffelhoeve.nl/2017/05_28/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/
https://albafabrication.co.za/Oct-05_water-pump-presentation.html

https://hetkaboutertje.nl/15610_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html?fbclid=IwAR3B_Wa9cQb98tTvuna022RCD-H5xEQcqZey-0zf6_R7S0m5ktOOHWZJeuM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 04, 2019, 11:28:50 AM
Raymond Head's new video

Two Stage Mechanicl Oscilator Secrerts # 1
Getting OLD . Want to share all I know about the Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator . Before I pass on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XciWrKY_tyk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XciWrKY_tyk)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 08, 2019, 06:10:30 PM
New links from Milkovic:

https://www.steigerhoutonline.be/913/Aggregate/Two_Stage_Mill_Machinery.html#
https://www.gpsrent.nl/double/stage/hammer/mill/principle/and/working/34123.html
https://imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
https://www.exportselectduitsland.nl/3788/7200118-hammer-crusher/
https://royal-india.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-29045/
https://smartband.co.za/zn/1579564614-efficient-durable-pendulum-machine.html
https://teamambacht.nl/en/2000/01/12501/pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://www.baeckerei-meissner.de/two_stage_mill_machinery_23495.html
https://www.ffnaarpeet.nl/22416/2011-11-19/pendulum-machines.htm
https://klarinetlesinwinsum.nl/964-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 13, 2019, 05:33:06 PM
Aaron Murakami gives a presentation on
Veljko Milkovic - 2 Stage Mechanical Oscillator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbQjaTZEPjI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 13, 2019, 05:36:39 PM
Raymond Head's new video

two stage mecanical oscilator secrets # 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65n04R4UiQc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65n04R4UiQc)
 
 
Getting OLD . Want to share all I know about the Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator . Before I pass on. ...I am making a series of videos explaining in great detail , how the two stage oscillator works. AND showing the mistakes people are making in their builds . 12 to 1 over unity is ONLY the BEGENING . My machines have gone well passed the 20 to 1 mark. And am.... NOW working on passing the 25 to 1 mark …… Mistakes …. # 1... Not swinging to pendulum high enough ……# 2 Wrong leaver ratio on power transfer bar …. # 3 Starting pendulum at full stop in up position and lifted weight in down position ….. AND the list goes on and on.. .. Basically ,,,,, It is MORE than obvious to me , that , people are NOT applying the true laws of physics to their thinking on the two stage oscillator. My first video deals with degree of swing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XciWr (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XciWr)... ) … Next video will talk of importance of length of swing and movement of power transfer bar … Later will come a video on compounding leverage ,,, And many more videos after that. The two stage oscillator does have it's limits ….. IF you know the laws of physics , understand them , and , believe in them . Then you know that a 30 to 1 over unity is only close to the halfway mark of it's potential …….. Watch my videos and see ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XciWr (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XciWr)... )
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 15, 2019, 05:37:15 PM
New Milkovic links:

https://www.ffnaarpeet.nl/22416/2011-11-19/pendulum-machines.htm
https://www.91restaurant.ca/SHE/mining-pendulum-machine-900.html
https://www.karinzwaving.nl/complex_pendulum_crusher_assembly_drawing/cost/9395/
http://www.bblunchroom.be/2013-Apr-03/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.prosperitylodge.co.za/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 18, 2019, 12:12:55 PM
Two new links:


http://www.campstandview.co.za/2015-Mar-21/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR1iLjchxZajVT3JPwF82DXRy-ISJq8a78WC6zIjxHhpNJi9l2xDqN-2Aa4 

http://www.bblunchroom.be/2013-Apr-03/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR0KplpsrH-FNXIQpRhNAEurIx64BbqQ7x-aIuZwZ2HYMS0rlbengSyIsBM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 21, 2019, 02:33:42 PM
Raymond Head's new videos


two stage mecanical oscilator secrets #3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7S5RKDYE40 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7S5RKDYE40)
 
Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator Secrets #3 Apology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCY7w7c9z0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 22, 2019, 01:42:05 PM
New links:

http://www.shalomchildren.co.za/xhh956/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine_14832/
https://resitecepoxyvloeren.be/byr/8831/what_is_the_principle_of_hammer_crusher/
http://clubbarocco.be/crusher_equipment/25972.html
https://www.kreativiteitsatelier.be/28886/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill.html
https://vbl.co.za/Oct_01+pendulum-machines/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 22, 2019, 09:19:08 PM
Even more links:

https://www.bchospitality.co.za/products/
https://ilmercatonline.it/10467_raymond-equipment-pendulum.html
https://www.lieke-air.be/themes/zuozhan-116/images/logo.png
https://www.lieke-air.be/07/11/33182/two-stage-mill-machinery/3.png
https://maputohotel.co.za/14632-08/pendulum-grinding-labs.html
https://www.appartementenvilla-curacao.nl/2019_Jan_30754-micro-mill-pendulum.html
https://isau.be/themes/theme/images/logo.png
https://www.oirschot-muziek.nl/blog/00_Jan/12780/used-for-sale-parts-and-pendulum-mills-usa/6.png
https://smartband.co.za/zn/1579564614-efficient-durable-pendulum-machine.html
https://restaurant-aangenaam.nl/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill_5489.html
https://www.corso-como.it/Aug_15/complex-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/
https://www.ik-ikt.nl/complex+pendulum+crusher+assembly+drawing-3495.html
https://arabic.alibaba.com/g/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic.html
http://www.debastide.be/ofw/17150/912-mechanical-vehicle-positioning-jack.html
https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-tXlBRDWARIsAGYQAmfCoo92doffbhT_Vik8VxNlztif1LvmnRDNXkzoq0wIYNeXlqkgSsgaAiDdEALw_wcB
https://pe1agf.nl/12336-raymond-equipment-pendulum.html
https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-tXlBRDWARIsAGYQAmfCoo92doffbhT_Vik8VxNlztif1LvmnRDNXkzoq0wIYNeXlqkgSsgaAiDdEALw_wcB
https://www.elisabethdevries.nl/6482/gravity-machines/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 23, 2019, 09:47:57 AM
Quote
With these systems, direct constant loading is dampener and will kill the oscillation, this is why Milkovic dont interest me, I dont like back and forth movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qktY1hDrRl8&list=PLvAzms-COt4ZGVdczUAkZtJUiSlx_X4S9&index=2&t=0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qktY1hDrRl8&list=PLvAzms-COt4ZGVdczUAkZtJUiSlx_X4S9&index=2&t=0s)
It talks about the advantage swing before rotation
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 24, 2019, 08:40:17 PM
Oh, you ... Therefore, I avoid Russian-speaking forums. Because there is a lot of anger and shit. And there is no discussion on the merits. And here again, about bullshit ... :)
Simply, I recalled the opinion of Milkovich about this in one of his videos. I wanted to share. Maybe he is wrong, this is his opinion.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 25, 2019, 04:20:07 PM

New pendulum gravity project by Sham Salunkhe under construction...

Generating energy using Pendulum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz2r2xDf-xM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz2r2xDf-xM)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEHQcj7wJw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEHQcj7wJw)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 27, 2019, 02:17:10 AM
Chinese industrial machines based on Veljko Milkovic’s invention in offer on Alibaba.com
 
mtw european trapezium mill veljko milkovic
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62177499193.html (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62177499193.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normalList.2.3280a9d0eDGpPl)
 
mtw european trapezium mill veljko milkovic
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62205744356.html (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62205744356.html)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ARMCORTEX on October 27, 2019, 05:08:03 AM
Oh, you ... Therefore, I avoid Russian-speaking forums. Because there is a lot of anger and shit. And there is no discussion on the merits. And here again, about bullshit ... :)
Simply, I recalled the opinion of Milkovich about this in one of his videos. I wanted to share. Maybe he is wrong, this is his opinion.

And I showed you the impressive video of Chalkalis vs the unimpressive video of Milkovich.

What is the lesson to be learned?

Impressive videos mean nothing. Chalkalis did not get OU either, and neither did Milkovich. I know this.

I am not interrested in what I know, I am interrested in what I dont know.

Is my design overunity? I dont know.... It has overbalanced pulse... I uses reactive force..It uses all the things that are present in OU litterature... But...I dont know.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 28, 2019, 03:49:01 PM
New links:

https://www.amsterdamdefilm.nl/32168/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/
https://silkroad-marignac.ch/gravity/machines-20197.html#
https://royal-india.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-29045/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 29, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Latest Milkovic's links:

https://alpicchionero.it/23867/twostage-mill-machinery/
https://www.randywilliam.nl/25168/gravity-machine/
https://www.amsterdamdefilm.nl/32168/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/
https://silkroad-marignac.ch/gravity/machines-20197.html#
https://royal-india.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-29045/
http://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.chihuahuawereld.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-14207.html
http://sdskernapeldoorn.nl/showroom/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-39090.html
https://souvlakisquarebayside.com/Fg/19_mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.caffevespa.it/2012/363-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 04, 2019, 12:47:22 PM
New links:

https://saicerailwayandharbour.co.za/27082/screen/gravity-machine
https://www.waldhornblaubeuren.de/17616/gravity-machines/
https://www.vakantieicmeler.nl/38005/grindingmillforsale/high+pressure+pendulum/2015-11-30/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 05, 2019, 02:32:39 PM
Today's links:

https://gerichtzichtbaar.nl/07_30/pendulum-machines/
https://www.whosafraidofthemuseum.be/cost-79750-two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.mirjamverschuren.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/38595.html
https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://www.borghuys.nl/04/1516-Pendulum-mill-output-1200T-H.html
https://www.slotsgeschenken.be/gravity/machines.html
https://www.vakantieicmeler.nl/38005/grindingmillforsale/high+pressure+pendulum/2015-11-30/
https://www.waldhornblaubeuren.de/17616/gravity-machines/
https://saicerailwayandharbour.co.za/27082/screen/gravity-machine
https://eilandenarnhem.nl/invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill-28460.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 12, 2019, 11:45:26 AM
New links:

https://fertilitytravel.co.za/Bv/12/pendulum+machine+oscillating+machine+for+mining+machinery-oEhdh.html
https://www.absicon2018.com/Mo/11097/mining-oscillating-machine-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.greenfuelh2o.com/learning-center/
https://www.legrandbleu-plongee.be/2014/21465/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://teamambacht.nl/en/2000/01/12501/pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://vancouverislandormus.net/unified-field-mechanics/
https://www.scuolamediasantamariavico.it/pendulum/mass/mill/technical_26741.html
https://www.lamazimusic.nl/21697/equipment/Pendulum-Broken-Sui-Machine.html
http://lunchroomstricklede.nl/rabbit/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html
https://www.caravanlodgebackpacker.co.za/6843_pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 14, 2019, 03:00:10 PM
Milkovic on Alibaba:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62177499193.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 19, 2019, 05:58:10 PM
New links:

https://frontstage.ch/plant/Invention-Of-Wheel-The-Stone-Mill/2019-09-22.html
https://www.cateringsalome.it/1997/07/2669_two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://natuurvoedingsadviseuse.nl/2002/203-invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/
https://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.akkio.nl/13888/rockrollercrushermachines/simple+pendulum+crusher/2017-08-13/
http://www.doubleblended.nl/sale/10148.html
https://durbanvillegardenclub.co.za/33142-pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62177499193.html
https://www.imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
https://schoenmakerij-jandrenth.nl/2017_Nov_30-17973.html
https://www.prism-prod.be/Apr/23/pendulum-centrifugal-force-mill.html
http://ranklaw.in/nfjue/mechanical-oscillator.html
https://onlinepakketlabel.nl/10_10/two-stage-mill-machinery_32215.html
https://www.agriturismoorchidea.it/13047/pendulum_log_feederpendulum_machines/2018-01-22.html
https://jbaygolf.co.za/2019-30/1552309930-permanent-magnet-crusher-machine-motor.html
https://bittner-schreml.de/08_28-9491.html
https://www.royal-india.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-29045/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 23, 2019, 03:01:51 PM

New replica


What to do with a double oscilator?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzgGASAdOP0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on November 23, 2019, 04:12:19 PM
  Hi Merg !
Thank you for posting this address . It's a new manner to play the oscillatory fulcrum ...if we take into consideration the so old shadoof cocept.
The same topic , at :  https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8238 (https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8238)
   Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Turbo on November 24, 2019, 06:42:34 AM
  Hi Merg !
Thank you for posting this address . It's a new manner to play the oscillatory fulcrum ...if we take into consideration the so old shadoof cocept.
The same topic , at :  https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8238 (https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8238)
   Al_ex

Jacob Alex you have to extract the energy from Gravitational acceleration this is 9.80665 m/s2 or approximately 32.17405 ft/s2.
Fixed armature pendulum and wheel kills this acceleration effect because it is a fixed point just like rolling a ball over a flat roof it will move or roll sideways but over the same level and it will not accelerate like it does when you would drop it.
There in you can find the secret.

All of these systems that use a center bolt kill the Gravitational acceleration by suppressing the distance traveled in the vertical plane.
When the mobile weights are above the center bolt you have a push on the center bolt and when the mobile weight is below the center bolt you have a pull on the center bolt, now in both states, the acceleration is in the same direction, but because the center bolt is fixed this potential is suppressed and will stay at the same level nullifying the conversion of potential energy into kinetic acceleration.


 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on November 24, 2019, 07:00:17 AM
If you scroll back to the first 40 pages or so,.....
We did the math for an pendulum with a secondary fulcrum.
Yes, at bottom dead center, the force vector is perpendicular along the shaft.
And yes, with a small enough counter-weight, a secondary fulcrum can be activated
by this force.


But at no point in the operation of the system, is the mass in motion not its’ momentum
considered “overunity”, or even close to the input energy.


Each activation of the secondary fulcrum decreases momentum of the pendulum.


A simple flywheel is 3-4x more efficient
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Turbo on November 24, 2019, 06:09:35 PM
You know whats funny ?
Every time i post something there is always an immediate response from some one who doesn't understand what i wrote, but does understand how to explain it away by pressing enough keyboard key's to form a nice pile of bullshit.

As if they want to say ' Yes we tried what you suggest long time ago, but this and that and so and so and here have my bullshit will you'
It's happens too frequent to call it a coincidence any longer.

I was talking about the acceleration of a falling object that does not have a center bolt.
So unless you have been throwing those pendulums off of buildings i politely decline your bullshit. 

Oh wait maybe you meant flywheels in free fall ?
My bad.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Toolofcortex on November 25, 2019, 09:06:45 AM
Calm down all.

Cortex has shown the device that should be attempted, the discussion has been laid to rest.

Next?

Now, if you are just a dreaaaaamer, just a little dreaaaamer, its a different story.

Investigate damnit!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Toolofcortex on November 26, 2019, 01:36:14 AM
Glad to see the spam bots banned.

Spam bots is a cause for global warming.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on November 26, 2019, 06:12:31 AM
I’m not saying your suggestion is “bad” or “good”
Hell, you can attach a weight to a pulley and a counter-balance,
Add a swivel, and make your load go in circles on its way down.


None of this is “overunity”........
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on November 26, 2019, 06:19:58 AM
E= mgh


Take 2 identical pendulii
One with a secondary fulcrum, one without
Drop them from the same height, at the same time
(In different local, to avert the metronome effect)


And have the malkovich “perform work”
And see what happens.


If you want, rig 2 grandfather clocks and they will be your stopwatch.
Run them for the length of the wound weights.
Have the 2-fulcrum clock land on a scale as “work”.


And observe.


Real life is exactly like the equation +/- (actual) friction and wind etc.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Toolofcortex on November 26, 2019, 06:39:09 AM
Whatever it is, its our best shot.

Miracles might not be possible.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on November 26, 2019, 06:44:12 AM
Whatever it is, its our best shot.

Miracles might not be possible.


I find myself unable to agree with that.
A flywheel is our “best shot”.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Toolofcortex on November 26, 2019, 05:22:08 PM
Yeah it is our best shot, the rest is garbage.

Its a special flywheel.

computer launched centrifugal engine.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 26, 2019, 07:09:39 PM
New links about Milkovic:

https://www.warmteinstallatieservice.nl/2019_May_09/12692/simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf
https://www.sh-haemochromatose.ch/4057/Copper/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
http://www.legrosvelo.be/ktv/2043/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html
https://www.farmadolenec.cz/crusher/2085-gravity-making-machine.html
http://www.campstandview.co.za/2015-Mar-21/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR1iLjchxZajVT3JPwF82DXRy-ISJq8a78WC6zIjxHhpNJi9l2xDqN-2Aa4
https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://www.gitedesvignes.ch/14-07/34056-splintered-two-stage-machine/
https://hetkaboutertje.nl/15610_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://serchhipcollege.in/1592/gravity-machine/
https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html
https://bittner-schreml.de/08_28-9491.html
https://www.rpvkatwijkeo.nl/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/
https://brommerbios.nl/08_20/calculation-of-pendulum-impact-force.html
https://souvlakisquarebayside.com/Fg/19_mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://natuurvoedingsadviseuse.nl/2002/203-invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/
https://twentemice.nl/Nov/17/pendulum-centrifugal-force-mill.htm
http://www.shalomchildren.co.za/xhh956/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine_14832/
https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html
https://www.inot.co.in/Mining-7190/
https://www.agriturismoorchidea.it/13047/pendulum_log_feederpendulum_machines/2018-01-22.html
https://www.wonenindrienerstaete.nl/May_16/6649/simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf.html
https://cobyvandenbrink.nl/categorie/17382-pendulum-grinder-millchina.html
https://www.imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
https://www.steigerhoutonline.be/913/Aggregate/Two_Stage_Mill_Machinery.html
https://www.gentechnikanbaufreiesnuernberg.de/pendulum_penggiling_5r/May_Sat/7737.html
http://www.bblunchroom.be/2013-Apr-03/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.vakantieicmeler.nl/38005/grindingmillforsale/high+pressure+pendulum/2015-11-30/
https://www.whosafraidofthemuseum.be/cost-79750-two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.mirjamverschuren.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/38595.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Toolofcortex on November 26, 2019, 07:56:14 PM
I thought the few days of respite meant you got banned.

Guess not.

What kind of dumb autist or bot posts this garbage I wonder?

You, and Milkovich, can suck my d***.

Your shit is wack!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 03, 2019, 12:09:15 PM
Latest Milkovic links:

https://gerichtzichtbaar.nl/07_30/pendulum-machines/
https://www.whosafraidofthemuseum.be/cost-79750-two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.mirjamverschuren.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/38595.html
https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://www.borghuys.nl/04/1516-Pendulum-mill-output-1200T-H.html
https://www.slotsgeschenken.be/gravity/machines.html
https://www.vakantieicmeler.nl/38005/grindingmillforsale/high+pressure+pendulum/2015-11-30/
https://www.waldhornblaubeuren.de/17616/gravity-machines/
https://saicerailwayandharbour.co.za/27082/screen/gravity-machine
https://eilandenarnhem.nl/invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill-28460.html
https://alpicchionero.it/23867/twostage-mill-machinery/
https://www.randywilliam.nl/25168/gravity-machine/
https://www.amsterdamdefilm.nl/32168/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/
https://silkroad-marignac.ch/gravity/machines-20197.html#
https://royal-india.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-29045/
http://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.chihuahuawereld.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-14207.html
http://sdskernapeldoorn.nl/showroom/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-39090.html
https://souvlakisquarebayside.com/Fg/19_mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.caffevespa.it/2012/363-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 04, 2019, 05:11:10 PM
Pendulum-based Hand Water Pump

http://isetnepal.org.np/pendulum-based-hand-water-pump/


Experimental Study on Water Lifting Simple Pendulum Mechanism for Borewell using Solar Energy
http://www.ijesi.org/papers/Vol(8)i3/Series-2/E0803023638.pdf



Modification of a typical hand water pump
https://www.academia.edu/37540226/Modification_of_a_typical_hand_water_pump
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 05, 2019, 05:19:05 PM

New papers:


ANALISIS HASIL RANCANG BANGUN SISTEM GERAK ABADI PASANGAN RODA GIGI LURUS
http://digilib.mercubuana.ac.id/manager/t!@file_artikel_abstrak/Isi_Artikel_569135146732.pdf


Design and Fabrication of Pendulum Operated Pump
http://ijsart.com/Content/PDFDocuments/IJSARTV4I523456.pdf


EXPERIMENTAL ANALYSIS OF TWO STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR
http://www.academia.edu/download/37138243/EXPERIMENTAL_ANALYSIS_ON_TWO_STAGE_MECHANICAL_OSCILLATOR.doc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 09, 2019, 07:45:08 PM

There are a lot of these scientific papers from Asia in the past years dealing with the Milkovic pendulum effect. It is interesting that some of them are respecting the inventor (Veljko Milkovic) citing his name as the original author, but others do not mention him at all in those papers or just quote the references from his co-workers.


I do not know what kind of practice is this, but we should respect the authorship and always mention the original author / inventor especially in the academic papers.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Turbo on December 09, 2019, 07:55:44 PM
In the meantime all the info has disappeared from the Sjack Abeling website http://www.mooieenergie.nl/en/ (http://www.mooieenergie.nl/en/)
It use to have a small explanation and some pictures but they are gone.
It's either that he didnt get the system to run, or it has been silenced by the bigger economic forces.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 10, 2019, 12:15:38 AM
Go see if he lives in a big house and has a big expensive car.

Should have sold for at least a couple millions.

However, I detect a bit of sascasm and bitterness wich could be a subtle wink.

because answering the flood of questions from all over the world has become an impossible task.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Turbo on December 11, 2019, 10:16:17 AM
Go see if he lives in a big house and has a big expensive car.

Should have sold for at least a couple millions.

However, I detect a bit of sascasm and bitterness wich could be a subtle wink.

because answering the flood of questions from all over the world has become an impossible task.

He already had a nice house and cars even before he started building his Air Gravity mill.

But understand that "Mass" doesn't mean the same thing as "Weight."

You will weigh less on the moon than on the Earth, because Weight depends on the force of gravity.

Mass, on the other hand, is an innate property of matter.

It exists even when an object is in free fall.

And objects in free fall can accelerate.

That's something to think about if you really want to understand what is what exactly.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 11, 2019, 11:21:36 AM
Dear friends, new links from Milkovic:

https://www.fisdir-piemontevda.it/28479+oblemsfacedjawcrusher+Magnet%20Crusher%20Pendulum.html
https://poolpumprepair.co.za/crusher-Pendulum-mill-output-1100T-H/Pendulum-mill-output-1100T-H.html
https://www.hethierennu.nl/3402/2018-12-04/Simple-Pendulum-Crusher.html
https://auliule.it/4280_Li+Ne+Crusher+Pendulum.html
https://delftglaszetter.nl/34060_ticking-pendulum-pulverizer_line.html
https://vital-buffet.de/09_25/pendulum-mill-pressure-drop.html
https://gutschnellenwind.be/Apr-15840/04_two-stage-mill-machinery/
https://dalits.be/04/06-8235/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/
https://hoteltitanic.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://moefe.ch/13880/simple-pendulum-crusher/
http://sdskernapeldoorn.nl/showroom/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-39090.html
https://auberge-la-rippe.ch/Lm/2018_268_pendulum/machine/popular/in/middle/east-14112019.html
https://www.akkio.nl/13888/rockrollercrushermachines/simple+pendulum+crusher/2017-08-13/
https://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.bureautotuwdienst.nl/Jul-02/2087/two-stage-mill-machinery
https://fertilitytravel.co.za/Bv/12/pendulum+machine+oscillating+machine+for+mining+machinery-oEhdh.html
https://www.caravanlodgebackpacker.co.za/6843_pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://schneller-fusswohl.ch/19-09-33445-pendulum-4r-world.html
https://www.cafe-zaalbergrust.nl/pendulum+magnet+for+crusher/5905.html
https://wrappedcabbage.co.za/y/2019_6_mining+pendulum+machine+cKyQOXyj.html
http://www.winkelvanwendy.nl/One/14497/wide-range-of-inries-serviced-oscillating-pendulum-machine.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 11, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
But there was a hint of sarcasm, so to me it failed.

Unless he comes out and present the contrary, with evidence.

May he RIP in his big house, hope he had fun and  can recuperate from this risky entrepreneurship.

The guy has big balls, I would show off my machine no matter what.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 11, 2019, 05:24:35 PM
The force of a moving pendulum at BDC is the first basic lesson
when you learn college level pendulum physics.


the so called “2-stage oscillator” was in use before this guy was born.
His water pumps are kewl and everything, if you live in a 3rd world country
that has no access to electricity.


But there is no excess “output” any more than the brakes on your car.
But tell that to the two rednecks with the truck, one pushes the brakes
and the other tries to hold the caliper still....
They swear the truck brakes are “ou”...
But then again, Archimedes thought he could move the earth with a stick
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 13, 2019, 07:10:07 PM
Milkovic's link:

https://www.plusdistrettozieri.it/29798/2016-5-16/invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 16, 2019, 12:17:50 AM
A new paper by Veljko Milkovic:

New Factors for Greater Efficiency of the Two-Stage Oscillator
https://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_New_Factors_for_Greater_Efficiency_of_the_Two-Stage_Oscillator.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 17, 2019, 12:04:34 PM
New links from Milovic:

https://www.rampinoassociati.it/9400.html
https://2worlds.nl/2020-03-05/25778.html (japan)
https://www.atelier-eemster24.nl/39613/li+ne+crusher+pendulum/2016-01-28/
https://www.plusdistrettozieri.it/29798/2016-5-16/invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill.html
https://ukaplicky-srbsko.cz/05/the_price_pacific_gravity_machine-14176.html
https://www.hethierennu.nl/3402/2018-12-04/Simple-Pendulum-Crusher.html
https://restaurant-aangenaam.nl/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill_5489.html
https://www.dewelpjes.nl/ore/8864/gravity-making-machine.html
https://www.astriprogramme.eu/malviya/33637-double-stage-mill.html
https://www.giovinazzomia.it/Gravity+Making+Machine-1920/2016-07-08/.html
https://www.serrureriemontgeron.eu/manufacture/3175/10-micro-mill-pendulum.html
https://www.tokyosushi.eu/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/28841.html (japan)
https://www.centraalwonenzwolle.nl/guidance/2181/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://www.fisioequilibrio.it/jig_energy_saving_serbia/Hp2/44937.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 17, 2019, 05:30:43 PM
Why do we assign credit to Milkovic for this system?
Sure he promoted hand-operated water pumps in poor nations...
But he did not invent this.
2-stage oscillator pumps were invented in 1806.
As an advancement upon the walking-beam steam pump.
In industry they are called pump jacks, and primarily used to pump oil


So yeah..... you guys are discussing the theoretical “free energy” application
of the oil industry’s favorite toy.....


Irony.....



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 17, 2019, 07:17:41 PM
SMOKEY HUMANITY HAVE TWO GREAT ISSUES TO DEAL WITH. ONE I HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE.
THE OTHER IS SECRECY. THERE are SECRETS BETWEEN YOU, WIFE, GOD, DEVIL, SON, DAUGHTER, WORK MATES
MOTHER INLAWS. FREE ENERGY, LOST VALUABLE INFORMATION AND NEW NON EXISTING TECHNOLOGY THAT WILL
SOONER OR LATER SURFACE. SO IF SOMEBODY BRING TO LIGHT THE LOST OR HIDDEN IDEAS, HE SHOULD BE VENERATED
FOR HIS INITIATIVE NOT DENEGRATED. IF SOMEONE MIX DIFFERENT IDEAS TOGETHER AND MORPH A NEW AND BETTER
INVENTION IT IS HIS IDEAS AND VIVID IMAGINATION THAT BROUGHT FORWARD THIS GREAT INVENTION.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 18, 2019, 02:31:34 AM
SMOKEY HUMANITY HAVE TWO GREAT ISSUES TO DEAL WITH. ONE I HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE.
THE OTHER IS SECRECY. THERE are SECRETS BETWEEN YOU, WIFE, GOD, DEVIL, SON, DAUGHTER, WORK MATES
MOTHER INLAWS. FREE ENERGY, LOST VALUABLE INFORMATION AND NEW NON EXISTING TECHNOLOGY THAT WILL
SOONER OR LATER SURFACE. SO IF SOMEBODY BRING TO LIGHT THE LOST OR HIDDEN IDEAS, HE SHOULD BE VENERATED
FOR HIS INITIATIVE NOT DENEGRATED. IF SOMEONE MIX DIFFERENT IDEAS TOGETHER AND MORPH A NEW AND BETTER
INVENTION IT IS HIS IDEAS AND VIVID IMAGINATION THAT BROUGHT FORWARD THIS GREAT INVENTION.


Actually I believe it came forth from a lack of education.
It was being used 200 yrs ago and still you can find one on any farmers land that has oil
The difference is in the modern world they are run by engines not by some guys hand


The physics of this device were described in great detail by multiple users
In the first 10 pages.


This now close to 250 page thread,.... what are you doing with this hand operated waterpump?
Personally I liked the punching bag but cracker
Or the guy that made a train-cart run on it
But honestly it’s a hand crank compared to the real thing.





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 18, 2019, 04:10:50 AM
SO SMOKEY IS IT AN OVERUNITY DEVICE, INVENTION, AND CONTRAPTION.
IF IT IS THEN WHY WE ARE NOT USING IT. I BELIEVE IT IS OVERUNITY BUT I JUST
HAVE TO PROVE ONCE AND FOR ALL.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 18, 2019, 04:50:00 AM
SO SMOKEY IS IT AN OVERUNITY DEVICE, INVENTION, AND CONTRAPTION.
IF IT IS THEN WHY WE ARE NOT USING IT. I BELIEVE IT IS OVERUNITY BUT I JUST
HAVE TO PROVE ONCE AND FOR ALL.


It is NOT an overunity device.
Not even close.


It is relatively efficient and convenient to use,
Which it was employed in steam engines 200 yrs ago
And why we use it to pump oil out of the ground today.
Oil is thick and this pump works great for that.
For water, you are wasting a lot of torque for no reason
the volume doesn’t increase by his design.
So the pendulum slows down quickly and you get some water.


A flywheel with a handcrank and an Archimedes screw
Does a much better job.


You can put the two side by side like a chainsaw and the Paul Bunyan
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 23, 2019, 01:38:14 PM
New Milkovic links:

https://www.barababao.it/30372/1984-02-25/ball_mill_two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://cobyvandenbrink.nl/categorie/17382-pendulum-grinder-millchina.html
https://lupocollina.nl/crusher/5841.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 24, 2019, 11:44:45 AM
Many new links from Milkovic:

https://www.farmadolenec.cz/crusher/2085-gravity-making-machine.html
https://www.warmteinstallatieservice.nl/2019_May_09/12692/simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf
https://maxsushi.de/40972/two-stage-mill-machinery/
https://www.jezdeckyvycvik.cz/12763+2015-03-21+gravity%20making%20machine.html
https://www.whosafraidofthemuseum.be/cost-79750-two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://bed-and-bike.it/save-energy-gravity-jig_13445/
https://apuliaconsulting.it/alunite+9007+two+stage+mill+machinery.html
https://www.citizeninitiatives.eu/24327-molinos-electricos-graviti/07-1198676822/
https://dalits.be/04/06-8235/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/
https://www.lediscotechedimilano.it/10607/2017-9-12/gravity-making-machine.html
https://www.cateringsalome.it/1997/07/2669_two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.stavbyzahradnicek.cz/534/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html
https://www.esquireinn.it/3768/details-details-of-mtw-mill-with-photos/
https://www.inot.co.in/Mining-7190/
https://www.barababao.it/30372/1984-02-25/ball_mill_two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://cobyvandenbrink.nl/categorie/17382-pendulum-grinder-millchina.html
https://lupocollina.nl/crusher/5841.html
https://www.solidus-akademie.de/4733/of-tph-ball-mill/
https://gerichtzichtbaar.nl/07_30/pendulum-machines/
https://www.fisdir-piemontevda.it/28479+oblemsfacedjawcrusher+Magnet%20Crusher%20Pendulum.html
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
http://www.campstandview.co.za/2015-Mar-21/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR1iLjchxZajVT3JPwF82DXRy-ISJq8a78WC6zIjxHhpNJi9l2xDqN-2Aa4
https://hoteltitanic.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://www.boerenbritaccommodation.co.za/20179_single-stage-hammer-mill-principle-and-working.html
https://gutschnellenwind.be/Apr-15840/04_two-stage-mill-machinery/
https://www.rpvkatwijkeo.nl/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/
https://prosperitylodge.co.za/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher.html
https://www.cafe-zaalbergrust.nl/pendulum+magnet+for+crusher/5905.html
https://allegria-stfrancisbay.co.za/machinist/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://royalgarden.co.za/4172_appliion/and/working/principle/of/impact/crusher.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 31, 2019, 01:25:03 PM
Latest links from Milkovic pendulum applications:

https://www.sportpitteam.cz/25997/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/2019-06-25/
https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://www.destinymusicacademy.co.za/serbia-energy-saving-chrome-ore-filter/
http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
https://appartement-zellersee.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://chantysresort.co.za/Jun-18+pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://rednews7.com/?p=gbswkztbga5gi3bpge4tgmq
https://ukaplicky-srbsko.cz/05/the_price_pacific_gravity_machine-14176.html
https://www.knutselko.nl/09-9814-nirmix-cement-plants-work-rajasthan-cement-plants.html
https://www.123bedrijfsverzekeringen.nl/gravity-machine-3285/
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
https://www.cateringsalome.it/1997/07/2669_two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.baeckerei-meissner.de/two_stage_mill_machinery_23495.html
https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://schoenmakerij-jandrenth.nl/2017_Nov_30-17973.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 07, 2020, 11:52:13 AM
Latest links:

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/wet-grid-ball-mill/
https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html
https://gerichtzichtbaar.nl/07_30/pendulum-machines/
https://www.helmgrasplanters.nl/20260_two+stage+mill+machinery.html
https://www.atelier-eemster24.nl/39613/li+ne+crusher+pendulum/2016-01-28/
https://www.prosperitylodge.co.za/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher.html
http://www.bblunchroom.be/2013-Apr-03/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.karinzwaving.nl/complex_pendulum_crusher_assembly_drawing/cost/9395/
https://www.91restaurant.ca/SHE/mining-pendulum-machine-900.html
https://www.ffnaarpeet.nl/22416/2011-11-19/pendulum-machines.htm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 11, 2020, 05:32:33 PM
If you type "veljko milkovic" in Alibaba website search you will get 24 products with his name!
https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=veljko+milkovic
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 14, 2020, 01:46:52 PM
New links!

https://www.balajiconstructionco.in/19441_two+stage+mill+machinery.html
https://www.appartementenvilla-curacao.nl/2019_Jan_30754-micro-mill-pendulum.html
https://www.lediscotechedimilano.it/10607/2017-9-12/gravity-making-machine.html
https://www.cantinailpergolato.it/37831_high+pressure+pendulum.html
https://www.oirschot-muziek.nl/blog/00_Jan/12780/used-for-sale-parts-and-pendulum-mills-usa/
https://0.fres-news.com/?p=gbtdayrtgm5gi3bpgm3dk
https://www.imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
https://www.dry-sand-making.in/04/548-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://smartband.co.za/zn/1579564614-efficient-durable-pendulum-machine.html
https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html
https://www.rampinoassociati.it/9400.html
https://www.fisioequilibrio.it/jig_energy_saving_serbia/Hp2/44937.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: cyberops21 on January 20, 2020, 11:22:59 AM
great news
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 21, 2020, 03:01:03 PM
Latest links:

https://alpicchionero.it/23867/twostage-mill-machinery/
https://www.randywilliam.nl/25168/gravity-machine/
https://www.amsterdamdefilm.nl/32168/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/
https://silkroad-marignac.ch/gravity/machines-20197.html#
https://royal-india.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-29045/
http://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.chihuahuawereld.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-14207.html
http://sdskernapeldoorn.nl/showroom/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-39090.html
https://souvlakisquarebayside.com/Fg/19_mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.caffevespa.it/2012/363-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 28, 2020, 12:10:55 PM
Latest links!!

https://www.icvolponi.it/34712_pendulum+mill+drawbackspendulum+mill+pressure+drop.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.sh-haemochromatose.ch/4057/Copper/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
http://www.legrosvelo.be/ktv/2043/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html

http://www.campstandview.co.za/2015-Mar-21/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR1iLjchxZajVT3JPwF82DXRy-ISJq8a78WC6zIjxHhpNJi9l2xDqN-2Aa4

https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://serchhipcollege.in/1592/gravity-machine/
https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html
https://bittner-schreml.de/08_28-9491.html
https://www.rpvkatwijkeo.nl/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/
https://natuurvoedingsadviseuse.nl/2002/203-invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/
https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html
https://www.gentechnikanbaufreiesnuernberg.de/pendulum_penggiling_5r/May_Sat/7737.html
https://www.mirjamverschuren.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/38595.html
https://www.imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 05, 2020, 12:37:02 PM
New links:


https://korsika-traumurlaub.de/2016-Sep/gravity-machines.html 
https://www.karinzwaving.nl/complex_pendulum_crusher_assembly_drawing/cost/9395/
https://www.91restaurant.ca/SHE/mining-pendulum-machine-900.html
https://bittner-schreml.de/08_28-9491.html
https://natuurvoedingsadviseuse.nl/2002/203-invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GXNmHQyd5DEJ:https://musikfreunde-zuerich-hottingen.ch/machinery/hand-operated--report-139720190216.html+&cd=35&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://www.prism-prod.be/Apr/23/pendulum-centrifugal-force-mill.html
https://keuken-boiler.nl/where/2nd/stage/hammer/mill/is/required/19696.html
https://www.wood-tech.co.za/metal_metal.html
https://durbanvillegardenclub.co.za/33142-pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
http://wildwisdoms.nl/a/News/double_stage_hammer_mill_69438.html

https://www.cobyvandenbrink.nl/categorie/17382-pendulum-grinder-millchina.html?fbclid=IwAR3MAQSqTCoFvILKmKdztQD03HjTas0w7ZKsmaNQ17FlGq6q11S_CeFYFdY

http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
https://www.stoffelhoeve.nl/2017/05_28/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/

https://albafabrication.co.za/Oct-05_water-pump-presentation.html

https://hetkaboutertje.nl/15610_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html?fbclid=IwAR3B_Wa9cQb98tTvuna022RCD-H5xEQcqZey-0zf6_R7S0m5ktOOHWZJeuM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 11, 2020, 04:51:19 PM
Links:

http://milliontrees.co.za/Can/15798/efficient-durable-pendulum-machine.html 
https://www.knutselko.nl/09-9814-nirmix-cement-plants-work-rajasthan-cement-plants.html
https://www.onlinepakketlabel.nl/10_10/two-stage-mill-machinery_32215.html 
https://www.zadamuz.nl/3301/mechanical_Hammer_Crusher_CM42operation_principle.html
https://www.osteriadonada.ch/2005/Mar/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/9787.html
https://hotelyogabadrinath.in/Jun-20/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-12531.html
https://chantysresort.co.za/Jun-18+pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 18, 2020, 05:09:13 PM
Latest links:

https://www.lerouret.nl/37825_pendulum/machines.html
https://www.lazenskavinarna.cz/sale/1567792374-pendulum-mill-drawbackspendulum-mill-pressure-drop/5057/
https://www.villaantonia.it/16909/production/double%20stage%20mill.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://www.fastcash.nl/30056/simple+pendulum+crusher.php/2017-11-17/
https://www.toelatingseisen.nl/31/pendulum-grinding-make-objective-of-grinding-machine/2016-12-16/
https://greenpreneurs.co.za/Pendulum_mill_patent_12221.html
https://www.parisienne.pl/gold-3-stage-hammer-mill/1iwxyh.html
https://acor.cz/nuuy/08_compound/pendulum/ball/mill/english/literature+14112019.html
https://gite-lesillions.be/24788/mechanical-hammer-crusher-operation-principle/
http://bastidonbelezy.nl/vHhNkYXZ/2018_gravity/machine-vHhNkYXZ/
https://loenmontage.nl/11_29/2758/
https://parfemessens.cz/33947/sadle.html
https://mumthai.be/pendulum_machines/32581.html
https://www.beraca.nl/01-Thu/gravity-machines.html
https://www.belmesseri.it/333_top+sale+pendulum+mill+china.html 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 24, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
Links from today:

https://www.sportpitteam.cz/25997/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/2019-06-25/
https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://www.destinymusicacademy.co.za/serbia-energy-saving-chrome-ore-filter/
http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
https://appartement-zellersee.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://chantysresort.co.za/Jun-18+pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://rednews7.com/?p=gbswkztbga5gi3bpge4tgmq
https://ukaplicky-srbsko.cz/05/the_price_pacific_gravity_machine-14176.html
https://www.knutselko.nl/09-9814-nirmix-cement-plants-work-rajasthan-cement-plants.html
https://www.123bedrijfsverzekeringen.nl/gravity-machine-3285/
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
https://www.cateringsalome.it/1997/07/2669_two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.baeckerei-meissner.de/two_stage_mill_machinery_23495.html
https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://schoenmakerij-jandrenth.nl/2017_Nov_30-17973.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 29, 2020, 06:37:44 PM
Engineering Educational Equipment


Pendulum Pump
http://etherengineers.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=287&search=Pendulum
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 02, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
New links about Milkovic pendulum:

https://www.bchospitality.co.za/products/

https://ilmercatonline.it/10467_raymond-equipment-pendulum.html

https://www.lieke-air.be/themes/zuozhan-116/images/logo.png

https://www.lieke-air.be/07/11/33182/two-stage-mill-machinery/3.png

https://maputohotel.co.za/14632-08/pendulum-grinding-labs.html

https://www.appartementenvilla-curacao.nl/2019_Jan_30754-micro-mill-pendulum.html

https://isau.be/themes/theme/images/logo.png

https://www.oirschot-muziek.nl/blog/00_Jan/12780/used-for-sale-parts-and-pendulum-mills-usa/6.png

https://smartband.co.za/zn/1579564614-efficient-durable-pendulum-machine.html

http://www.villabrae.co.za/themes/project76/images/logo.gif

https://restaurant-aangenaam.nl/pendulum_centrifugal_force_mill_5489.html

https://www.corso-como.it/Aug_15/complex-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing/

https://www.ik-ikt.nl/complex+pendulum+crusher+assembly+drawing-3495.html

https://arabic.alibaba.com/g/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic.html

http://www.debastide.be/ofw/17150/912-mechanical-vehicle-positioning-jack.html

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-tXlBRDWARIsAGYQAmfCoo92doffbhT_Vik8VxNlztif1LvmnRDNXkzoq0wIYNeXlqkgSsgaAiDdEALw_wcB

https://pe1agf.nl/12336-raymond-equipment-pendulum.html

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-tXlBRDWARIsAGYQAmfCoo92doffbhT_Vik8VxNlztif1LvmnRDNXkzoq0wIYNeXlqkgSsgaAiDdEALw_wcB

https://www.elisabethdevries.nl/6482/gravity-machines/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 09, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Dear friends, latest links:

https://www.sportpitteam.cz/25997/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/2019-06-25/
https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://www.destinymusicacademy.co.za/serbia-energy-saving-chrome-ore-filter/
http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
https://appartement-zellersee.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://chantysresort.co.za/Jun-18+pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://rednews7.com/?p=gbswkztbga5gi3bpge4tgmq
https://ukaplicky-srbsko.cz/05/the_price_pacific_gravity_machine-14176.html
https://www.knutselko.nl/09-9814-nirmix-cement-plants-work-rajasthan-cement-plants.html
https://www.123bedrijfsverzekeringen.nl/gravity-machine-3285/
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
https://www.cateringsalome.it/1997/07/2669_two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.baeckerei-meissner.de/two_stage_mill_machinery_23495.html
https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://schoenmakerij-jandrenth.nl/2017_Nov_30-17973.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 16, 2020, 12:16:25 PM
New links:

https://www.fisdir-piemontevda.it/28479+oblemsfacedjawcrusher+Magnet%20Crusher%20Pendulum.html
https://poolpumprepair.co.za/crusher-Pendulum-mill-output-1100T-H/Pendulum-mill-output-1100T-H.html
https://www.hethierennu.nl/3402/2018-12-04/Simple-Pendulum-Crusher.html
https://auliule.it/4280_Li+Ne+Crusher+Pendulum.html
https://delftglaszetter.nl/34060_ticking-pendulum-pulverizer_line.html
https://vital-buffet.de/09_25/pendulum-mill-pressure-drop.html
https://gutschnellenwind.be/Apr-15840/04_two-stage-mill-machinery/
https://dalits.be/04/06-8235/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/
https://hoteltitanic.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://moefe.ch/13880/simple-pendulum-crusher/
http://sdskernapeldoorn.nl/showroom/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-39090.html
https://auberge-la-rippe.ch/Lm/2018_268_pendulum/machine/popular/in/middle/east-14112019.html
https://www.akkio.nl/13888/rockrollercrushermachines/simple+pendulum+crusher/2017-08-13/
https://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.bureautotuwdienst.nl/Jul-02/2087/two-stage-mill-machinery
https://fertilitytravel.co.za/Bv/12/pendulum+machine+oscillating+machine+for+mining+machinery-oEhdh.html
https://www.caravanlodgebackpacker.co.za/6843_pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://schneller-fusswohl.ch/19-09-33445-pendulum-4r-world.html
https://www.cafe-zaalbergrust.nl/pendulum+magnet+for+crusher/5905.html
https://wrappedcabbage.co.za/y/2019_6_mining+pendulum+machine+cKyQOXyj.html
http://www.winkelvanwendy.nl/One/14497/wide-range-of-inries-serviced-oscillating-pendulum-machine.html

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 22, 2020, 03:12:14 PM
Latest links dear friends:

https://alpicchionero.it/23867/twostage-mill-machinery/
https://www.randywilliam.nl/25168/gravity-machine/
https://www.amsterdamdefilm.nl/32168/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/
https://silkroad-marignac.ch/gravity/machines-20197.html#
https://royal-india.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-29045/
http://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.chihuahuawereld.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-14207.html
http://sdskernapeldoorn.nl/showroom/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-39090.html
https://souvlakisquarebayside.com/Fg/19_mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.caffevespa.it/2012/363-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 25, 2020, 02:02:03 PM
Milkovic pendulum - the latest scientific paper from 2019:

http://www.vemirc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/2-550-155982040271-76.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 29, 2020, 12:23:29 PM
New links:

https://www.villaantonia.it/16909/production/double%20stage%20mill.html
https://acor.cz/nuuy/08_compound/pendulum/ball/mill/english/literature+14112019.html
https://expoblinds.co.za/double/stage/hammer/mill/principle/and/working/34203.html
https://www.parisienne.pl/gold-3-stage-hammer-mill/1iwxyh.html
https://www.soproindia.in/crusher/metal-crusher-lindemann-price.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://lebosslodge.co.za/4565/gravity-machines/
https://www.baculit.eu/2019-07-26/pendulum-mill-pressure-drop-_12300/
https://coupriegemsandjewels.nl/28089/european-grinding-trapezium/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 06, 2020, 12:44:35 PM
Latest links:


https://fertilitytravel.co.za/Bv/12/pendulum+machine+oscillating+machine+for+mining+machinery-oEhdh.html
https://www.absicon2018.com/Mo/11097/mining-oscillating-machine-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.greenfuelh2o.com/learning-center/
https://www.legrandbleu-plongee.be/2014/21465/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://teamambacht.nl/en/2000/01/12501/pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://vancouverislandormus.net/unified-field-mechanics/
https://www.scuolamediasantamariavico.it/pendulum/mass/mill/technical_26741.html
https://www.lamazimusic.nl/21697/equipment/Pendulum-Broken-Sui-Machine.html
http://lunchroomstricklede.nl/rabbit/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html
https://www.caravanlodgebackpacker.co.za/6843_pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://alpicchionero.it/23867/twostage-mill-machinery/
https://www.randywilliam.nl/25168/gravity-machine/
https://www.amsterdamdefilm.nl/32168/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/
https://silkroad-marignac.ch/gravity/machines-20197.html#
https://royal-india.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-29045/
http://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.chihuahuawereld.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-14207.html
http://sdskernapeldoorn.nl/showroom/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-39090.html
https://souvlakisquarebayside.com/Fg/19_mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.caffevespa.it/2012/363-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 13, 2020, 04:17:17 PM
Eco house, self - heating house by Milkovic:

https://architizer.com/projects/selfheating-eco-house/

Other new links:

https://architizer.com/projects/selfheating-eco-house/
https://expoblinds.co.za/double/stage/hammer/mill/principle/and/working/34203.html
https://www.legrandbleu-plongee.be/2014/21465/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://www.ipverbergen.nl/requirement/5991/gravity-making-machine.html
https://www.neurinox.eu/assets/images/logo.png
https://www.neurinox.eu/2018/Apr/22401/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://www.stoffelhoeve.nl/themes/en/assets/images/logo.png
https://www.stoffelhoeve.nl/2017/05_28/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/
https://www.giovegan.it/themes/103/images/logo.png
https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://albafabrication.co.za/Oct-05_water-pump-presentation.html
https://hetkaboutertje.nl/15610_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html?fbclid=IwAR3B_Wa9cQb98tTvuna022RCD-H5xEQcqZey-0zf6_R7S0m5ktOOHWZJeuM
https://aimuliniresort.it/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/5671.html
https://www.thsaes.nl/296/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR2T9ybGgx787My74Mu1aX7seDS8385q_af7jqQc1p81P5BPpQ65pQmGDTw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 21, 2020, 02:07:07 PM
New Milkovic links:

https://www.sportpitteam.cz/25997/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/2019-06-25/
https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://www.destinymusicacademy.co.za/serbia-energy-saving-chrome-ore-filter/
http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
https://appartement-zellersee.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://chantysresort.co.za/Jun-18+pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://rednews7.com/?p=gbswkztbga5gi3bpge4tgmq
https://ukaplicky-srbsko.cz/05/the_price_pacific_gravity_machine-14176.html
https://www.knutselko.nl/09-9814-nirmix-cement-plants-work-rajasthan-cement-plants.html
https://www.123bedrijfsverzekeringen.nl/gravity-machine-3285/
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
https://www.cateringsalome.it/1997/07/2669_two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.baeckerei-meissner.de/two_stage_mill_machinery_23495.html
https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://schoenmakerij-jandrenth.nl/2017_Nov_30-17973.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 27, 2020, 02:44:59 PM
Latest links about Milkovic pendulum:

https://www.fisdir-piemontevda.it/28479+oblemsfacedjawcrusher+Magnet%20Crusher%20Pendulum.html
https://poolpumprepair.co.za/crusher-Pendulum-mill-output-1100T-H/Pendulum-mill-output-1100T-H.html
https://www.hethierennu.nl/3402/2018-12-04/Simple-Pendulum-Crusher.html
https://www.bureautotuwdienst.nl/Jul-02/2087/two-stage-mill-machinery 
https://auliule.it/4280_Li+Ne+Crusher+Pendulum.html
https://delftglaszetter.nl/34060_ticking-pendulum-pulverizer_line.html
https://vital-buffet.de/09_25/pendulum-mill-pressure-drop.html
https://dalits.be/04/06-8235/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/
 https://hoteltitanic.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://fertilitytravel.co.za/Bv/12/pendulum+machine+oscillating+machine+for+mining+machinery-oEhdh.html 
https://www.caravanlodgebackpacker.co.za/6843_pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 02, 2020, 03:34:16 PM
Milkovic Double Oscilating Pendulum. Free Energy design.Over Unity, Perpetual Motion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l87WHW2Ac08
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 04, 2020, 09:55:37 AM
New links:

http://www.prace2.cz/mill/pendulum-crusher-simple/3203/
https://www.smoothandthebullyboys.be/21736/2019-07-19/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://discobar54.be/Sep/04-3852.html
https://resistancetraining.it/2011-1528466770.html
https://www.lionsvalletiberina.it/26910_Two+Stage+Mill+Machinery.html
https://acor.cz/nuuy/08_compound/pendulum/ball/mill/english/literature+14112019.html
https://www.limis-massage.ch/34631/2016-02-17/_1455674578.html
https://www.sportpitteam.cz/9248/two-stage-mill-machinery/2019-06-19/
https://www.ib-jasinski.de/two-stage-mill-machinery/16468.html
https://www.interventoidraulicoroma.it/Nov/08+irrigation-pipe-puller-in-serbia/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 11, 2020, 01:24:43 PM
Latest links about Milkovic:

https://www.icvolponi.it/34712_pendulum+mill+drawbackspendulum+mill+pressure+drop.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.sh-haemochromatose.ch/4057/Copper/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
http://www.legrosvelo.be/ktv/2043/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html
http://www.campstandview.co.za/2015-Mar-21/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR1iLjchxZajVT3JPwF82DXRy-SJq8a78WC6zIjxHhpNJi9l2xDqN-2Aa4
https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://serchhipcollege.in/1592/gravity-machine/
https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html
https://bittner-schreml.de/08_28-9491.html
https://www.rpvkatwijkeo.nl/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/
https://natuurvoedingsadviseuse.nl/2002/203-invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/
https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html
https://www.gentechnikanbaufreiesnuernberg.de/pendulum_penggiling_5r/May_Sat/7737.html
https://www.mirjamverschuren.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/38595.html
https://www.imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 16, 2020, 12:02:07 PM
Video about Milkovic pendulum in use - many companies
that use his invention:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR3Xdk9IR9T-CDxHDYOK45L0K7ueFrc4JNGFiF4EXfAvOnZi6j0s0Oqyp9w&v=uaZZ9ZHTXa4&app=desktop#menu
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 18, 2020, 04:39:26 PM
Latest from Milkovic:

https://www.villaantonia.it/16909/production/double%20stage%20mill.html
https://acor.cz/nuuy/08_compound/pendulum/ball/mill/english/literature+14112019.html
https://expoblinds.co.za/double/stage/hammer/mill/principle/and/working/34203.html
https://www.parisienne.pl/gold-3-stage-hammer-mill/1iwxyh.html
https://www.soproindia.in/crusher/metal-crusher-lindemann-price.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://lebosslodge.co.za/4565/gravity-machines/
https://www.baculit.eu/2019-07-26/pendulum-mill-pressure-drop-_12300/
https://coupriegemsandjewels.nl/28089/european-grinding-trapezium/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 25, 2020, 12:31:25 PM
Hello everybody, new links:

https://www.um-eatwell.nl/17205/
https://www.dittabondesan.it/product/
https://jomadaca.nl/707/rollcrusher/single%20stage%20hammer%20crusher%20structure%20diagram.html
https://unadis.be/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher-2754.html
https://www.desetiboj-kladno.cz/05/2018-05-31/9123.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://www.museoscuolaantica.it/pendulum+magnet+for+crusher+-5557.html
https://www.madousprovence.be/7200118-hammer-crusher/13139.html
https://www.bruchstein.be/May_10+high-quality-and-efficiency-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.parisienne.pl/gold-3-stage-hammer-mill/1iwxyh.html
https://stalowawolamiastorowerow.pl/pendulum-grinding-machinery/582.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 26, 2020, 07:27:04 PM
Milkovic - Perpetuum mobile in mass production:

https://youtu.be/uaZZ9ZHTXa4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on May 29, 2020, 06:58:21 AM
I must take a step back from my previous comments in this thread, due to new information.


I hold to my stance that the general assessment of this device is false.


However:::
It has since been proven as fact:
That the Pythagorean equation is simultaneously dualic
Triatic
And quadratic


Therefore:
In the proper proportions:


1 lever = 1/2 F to C
2 Levers = 1/4 F to C
3 Levers = 1/8 F to C
4 Lever = 1/16 F to C
(And in a single vector)
5 levers = 1/32 F to C
and “if i had a place to stand i could move the earth....”


This fulcrum to center proportion
is backwards from our normal fulcrum to force analysis
Or inside out however you want to put it.


In the proper proportions the ant has no problem lifting the twig
And the bumblebee can fly more than he does


Pay attention to your lever proportions
And you will find your solution more quickly.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 31, 2020, 08:36:30 PM

Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator Part I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egJqNNZ_YU0

Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator Part II - (Explanation)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAp2xAS_-8o

Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator Part III - (Measurements)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk57zKPFc3s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 01, 2020, 01:08:18 PM
New links:

https://www.farmadolenec.cz/crusher/2085-gravity-making-machine.html
https://www.warmteinstallatieservice.nl/2019_May_09/12692/simple-vertical-transmission-machines-pdf
https://maxsushi.de/40972/two-stage-mill-machinery/
https://www.jezdeckyvycvik.cz/12763+2015-03-21+gravity%20making%20machine.html
https://www.whosafraidofthemuseum.be/cost-79750-two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://bed-and-bike.it/save-energy-gravity-jig_13445/
https://apuliaconsulting.it/alunite+9007+two+stage+mill+machinery.html
https://www.citizeninitiatives.eu/24327-molinos-electricos-graviti/07-1198676822/
https://dalits.be/04/06-8235/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/
https://www.lediscotechedimilano.it/10607/2017-9-12/gravity-making-machine.html
https://www.cateringsalome.it/1997/07/2669_two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.stavbyzahradnicek.cz/534/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html
https://www.esquireinn.it/3768/details-details-of-mtw-mill-with-photos/
https://www.inot.co.in/Mining-7190/
https://www.barababao.it/30372/1984-02-25/ball_mill_two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://cobyvandenbrink.nl/categorie/17382-pendulum-grinder-millchina.html
https://lupocollina.nl/crusher/5841.html
https://www.solidus-akademie.de/4733/of-tph-ball-mill/
https://gerichtzichtbaar.nl/07_30/pendulum-machines/
https://www.fisdir-piemontevda.it/28479+oblemsfacedjawcrusher+Magnet%20Crusher%20Pendulum.html
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
http://www.campstandview.co.za/2015-Mar-21/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR1iLjchxZajVT3JPwF82DXRy-ISJq8a78WC6zIjxHhpNJi9l2xDqN-2Aa4
https://hoteltitanic.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://www.boerenbritaccommodation.co.za/20179_single-stage-hammer-mill-principle-and-working.html
https://gutschnellenwind.be/Apr-15840/04_two-stage-mill-machinery/
https://www.rpvkatwijkeo.nl/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/
https://prosperitylodge.co.za/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher.html
https://www.cafe-zaalbergrust.nl/pendulum+magnet+for+crusher/5905.html
https://allegria-stfrancisbay.co.za/machinist/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://royalgarden.co.za/4172_appliion/and/working/principle/of/impact/crusher.html


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 02, 2020, 12:41:14 AM
New paper by Veljko Milkovic:

Synergy between Invested Energy and Gravitation in Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Synergy_between_Invested_Energy_and_Gravitation_in_Two-Stage_Mechanical_Oscillator.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on June 03, 2020, 07:17:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk57zKPFc3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk57zKPFc3s)
In this case, is self-pushing possible? Well, like this ... :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 08, 2020, 12:51:45 PM
Latest links dear friends;

https://www.desetiboj-kladno.cz/05/2018-05-31/9123.html
https://www.hsbilina.cz/19389+crushing+pendulum_mill_pressure_drop.html
http://cuisinebonvivant.co.za/pendulum-machines_22316.html
http://bastidonbelezy.nl/vHhNkYXZ/2018_gravity/machine-vHhNkYXZ/
https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
https://cleantechnica.com/category/research/page/325/
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4iq9chc1wBcJ:https://www.psyte.ch/goldorecrusher/16072/erys/+&cd=56&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs
https://www.tanecahandicap.cz/G/9516/price+of+fertilier+machine+pendulum+pulverier+.html
https://www.leeshit.nl/finlay/913-Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html
https://www.pharmaciedechastre.be/Jul/28445_gravity-machines/
https://www.fernandosther.nl/12283/2019-machinist%20hammer%20crusher%20go%20principle.html
https://www.kaktusari.cz/granite/1580481933-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/1174/
______________________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 15, 2020, 12:54:13 PM
Links, latest group:

https://www.beatacademy.nl/1378.html
https://www.bestin.cz/39470/7200118-hammer-crusher/
https://www.djt-rex.nl/32161/1575310333.html
https://www.woonsale.nl/24263/ieuwfahiu/
https://www.madousprovence.be/7200118-hammer-crusher/13139.html
https://www.emanueletinto.it/3316/2020-06-01/cone/
https://hotelrijsbergen.nl/Sep-24/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://acor.cz/nuuy/08_compound/pendulum/ball/mill/english/literature+14112019.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.lintrimode.nl/coal/Jan-1075/
https://www.artdesign-heyne.de/price-10606/grinder.html
https://www.stapvoorwaarts.be/27876-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4iq9chc1wBcJ:https://www.psyte.ch/goldorecrusher/16072/erys/+&cd=17&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs
https://phago24.de/ple-pendulum-jaw-crusher_1816206.html
http://techvault.poornima.org/all_project.php?type=ME
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 22, 2020, 12:39:36 PM
New links (Alibaba!):

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62177499193.html

https://www.limovin.cz/2015-01-12+30688.html
https://www.desetiboj-kladno.cz/05/2018-05-31/9123.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://www.villaantonia.it/16909/production/double%20stage%20mill.html
https://www.desetiboj-kladno.cz/05/2018-05-31/9123.html
https://www.museoscuolaantica.it/pendulum+magnet+for+crusher+-5557.html
http://ru.lmmobilecrusher.com/c6x.html
_____________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 28, 2020, 01:08:27 PM
New links dear friends:

https://www.icvolponi.it/34712_pendulum+mill+drawbackspendulum+mill+pressure+drop.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.sh-haemochromatose.ch/4057/Copper/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
http://www.legrosvelo.be/ktv/2043/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html
http://www.campstandview.co.za/2015-Mar-21/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR1iLjchxZajVT3JPwF82DXRy-ISJq8a78WC6zIjxHhpNJi9l2xDqN-2Aa4
https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://serchhipcollege.in/1592/gravity-machine/
https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html
https://bittner-schreml.de/08_28-9491.html
https://www.rpvkatwijkeo.nl/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/
https://natuurvoedingsadviseuse.nl/2002/203-invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/
https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html
https://www.gentechnikanbaufreiesnuernberg.de/pendulum_penggiling_5r/May_Sat/7737.html
https://www.mirjamverschuren.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/38595.html
https://www.imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 05, 2020, 12:35:51 PM
Latest links dear friends: 

https://www.villaantonia.it/16909/production/double%20stage%20mill.html
https://acor.cz/nuuy/08_compound/pendulum/ball/mill/english/literature+14112019.html
https://expoblinds.co.za/double/stage/hammer/mill/principle/and/working/34203.html
https://www.parisienne.pl/gold-3-stage-hammer-mill/1iwxyh.html
https://www.soproindia.in/crusher/metal-crusher-lindemann-price.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://lebosslodge.co.za/4565/gravity-machines/
https://www.baculit.eu/2019-07-26/pendulum-mill-pressure-drop-_12300/
https://coupriegemsandjewels.nl/28089/european-grinding-trapezium/
https://www.sportpitteam.cz/25997/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/2019-06-25/
https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/
https://www.destinymusicacademy.co.za/serbia-energy-saving-chrome-ore-filter/
http://www.wine-extra.co.za/2017-Jul-26/hammer-wear-resistant-rubber-slurry-pump-como-se-monta-para-trabalhar.html
https://appartement-zellersee.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://chantysresort.co.za/Jun-18+pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://rednews7.com/?p=gbswkztbga5gi3bpge4tgmq
https://ukaplicky-srbsko.cz/05/the_price_pacific_gravity_machine-14176.html
https://www.knutselko.nl/09-9814-nirmix-cement-plants-work-rajasthan-cement-plants.html
https://www.123bedrijfsverzekeringen.nl/gravity-machine-3285/
https://www.fabfitness.nl/19-32820/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://andantinobedandbreakfast.be/comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing-19792.html
https://www.cateringsalome.it/1997/07/2669_two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.baeckerei-meissner.de/two_stage_mill_machinery_23495.html
https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://schoenmakerij-jandrenth.nl/2017_Nov_30-17973.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 12, 2020, 12:47:09 PM
Links for today:

https://www.fisdir-piemontevda.it/28479+oblemsfacedjawcrusher+Magnet%20Crusher%20Pendulum.html
https://poolpumprepair.co.za/crusher-Pendulum-mill-output-1100T-H/Pendulum-mill-output-1100T-H.html
https://www.hethierennu.nl/3402/2018-12-04/Simple-Pendulum-Crusher.html
https://auliule.it/4280_Li+Ne+Crusher+Pendulum.html
https://delftglaszetter.nl/34060_ticking-pendulum-pulverizer_line.html
https://vital-buffet.de/09_25/pendulum-mill-pressure-drop.html
https://gutschnellenwind.be/Apr-15840/04_two-stage-mill-machinery/
https://dalits.be/04/06-8235/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/
https://hoteltitanic.nl/7495_stone-crusher-tiranid-pravila.html
https://moefe.ch/13880/simple-pendulum-crusher/
http://sdskernapeldoorn.nl/showroom/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher-39090.html
https://auberge-la-rippe.ch/Lm/2018_268_pendulum/machine/popular/in/middle/east-14112019.html
https://www.akkio.nl/13888/rockrollercrushermachines/simple+pendulum+crusher/2017-08-13/
https://nwdesd.co.za/2016-10_280/two-stage-mechanical-oscillator-a-mechanical-amplifier-7ts3g/
https://www.bureautotuwdienst.nl/Jul-02/2087/two-stage-mill-machinery
https://fertilitytravel.co.za/Bv/12/pendulum+machine+oscillating+machine+for+mining+machinery-oEhdh.html
https://www.caravanlodgebackpacker.co.za/6843_pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://schneller-fusswohl.ch/19-09-33445-pendulum-4r-world.html
https://www.cafe-zaalbergrust.nl/pendulum+magnet+for+crusher/5905.html
https://wrappedcabbage.co.za/y/2019_6_mining+pendulum+machine+cKyQOXyj.html
http://www.winkelvanwendy.nl/One/14497/wide-range-of-inries-serviced-oscillating-pendulum-machine.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 18, 2020, 01:32:54 PM
Links:

https://www.annemiekekooijman.nl/coal/Apr-2705/
https://www.appartamentirubiera.it/shanteng/23684_2016-10-15_pendulum-operating-principle.html
https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/
https://www.century-building-society.co.uk/2381/2020-04-25+hypmf/
https://www.boatholidays.nl/15403/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher.html/
https://24faq.de/ball-mill-3865.html
https://www.dreamtours.nl/8017/y_jaw_crusher/2018/
https://www.lstech.it/Simple-Pendulum-Crusher/225122.html
https://www.gardenvizzolo.it/22108/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/2018-11-01.html
https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on July 18, 2020, 05:16:19 PM
How low is the efficiency of the piezoelectric element, the ratio of the mechanical
working by pressing it with the resulting electrical?
pressing force is great, but the distance is very small.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 27, 2020, 01:42:02 PM
New links:

https://www.willowcreeksa.co.za/DV19/64919/mining-ore-pendulum-mill-china.html

https://expoblinds.co.za/double/stage/hammer/mill/principle/and/working/34203.html

https://www.legrandbleu-plongee.be/2014/21465/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/

https://www.ipverbergen.nl/requirement/5991/gravity-making-machine.html

https://www.neurinox.eu/2018/Apr/22401/two-stage-mill-machinery.html

https://www.stoffelhoeve.nl/2017/05_28/pendulum-magnet-bagi-crusher/

https://www.giovegan.it/2019/16326-pendulum-mass-mill-technical.html

https://albafabrication.co.za/Oct-05_water-pump-presentation.html

https://hetkaboutertje.nl/15610_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html?fbclid=IwAR3B_Wa9cQb98tTvuna022RCD-H5xEQcqZey-0zf6_R7S0m5ktOOHWZJeuM

https://aimuliniresort.it/pendulum_mass_mill_technical/5671.html

https://www.thsaes.nl/296/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery.html?fbclid=IwAR2T9ybGgx787My74Mu1aX7seDS8385q_af7jqQc1p81P5BPpQ65pQmGDTw

https://www.icvolponi.it/34712_pendulum+mill+drawbackspendulum+mill+pressure+drop.html

https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html

https://www.sh-haemochromatose.ch/4057/Copper/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html

http://www.legrosvelo.be/ktv/2043/practical-using-high-efficiency-oscillating-machine.html

http://www.campstandview.co.za/2015-Mar-21/mining-pendulum-machine.html?fbclid=IwAR1iLjchxZajVT3JPwF82DXRy-ISJq8a78WC6zIjxHhpNJi9l2xDqN-2Aa4

https://gasthof-konstanz.de/listen/8/24525/grades-of-dolimite-sand/

https://serchhipcollege.in/1592/gravity-machine/

https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html

https://bittner-schreml.de/08_28-9491.html

https://www.rpvkatwijkeo.nl/pendulum/mass-mill-technical/

https://natuurvoedingsadviseuse.nl/2002/203-invention-of-wheel-the-stone-mill/

https://prominent-mems.eu/Tue26-02/516.html

https://www.gentechnikanbaufreiesnuernberg.de/pendulum_penggiling_5r/May_Sat/7737.html

https://www.mirjamverschuren.nl/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/38595.html

https://www.imagine-bedandbreakfast.nl/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 27, 2020, 09:38:59 PM
Almost 500 companies in the world produce and sell machines based on Veljko's invention:
 
https://trip2life.de/1523955910-FexEikGE_new+tyand+high+efficiency+pendulum+machine+FexEikGE/
https://restaurant-flow.nl/26647/two_stage_mill_machinery.html
https://www.confidant-sound.de/grinder/30645.html
http://ru.lmmobilecrusher.com/c6x.html
https://magento-17419-396715.cloudwaysstagingapps.com/
https://hofteballooning.nl/117050/2019-10-28/rent_used_crusher_uk_machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://cleantechnica.com/2009/02/09/2-stage-oscillators-and-the-quest-for-free-energy/
https://www.bbnelmuro.it/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery/27722.html
https://casa-laura.nl/Jul/03_11658.html 
https://www.riverdeckweddings.co.za/screen/cobble-single-stage-hammer-crusher_19434.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 03, 2020, 12:28:56 PM
OVER 500 companies worldwide use Milkovic's invention.. New, latest links:


https://www.annemiekekooijman.nl/coal/Apr-2705/
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hb4HxSlqsAkJ:https://www.dmcterredelpiacere.it/40684/pendulum-mill-pressure-drop/+&cd=51&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://www.boatholidays.nl/15403/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher.html/
https://www.vakantiewoning-aanbod.nl/660/themes/zly/about.html
https://www.beatacademy.nl/1378.html
https://www.bestin.cz/39470/7200118-hammer-crusher/
https://lesglacesdelalie.be/grinding-mill/two-stage-floatation-mill.html
https://www.bbnelmuro.it/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery/27722.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 10, 2020, 05:31:33 PM
More than 500 companies world wide use Milkovic's invention.. latest links:

https://separat.cz/raymond_mill_pressure_drop/JkhcC.html
https://www.sri-thai.be/2019/12/212.html
https://www.beatacademy.nl/1378.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://www.samenvoorlaakdal.be/404.html
https://acor.cz/nuuy/08_compound/pendulum/ball/mill/english/literature+14112019.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 17, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
Dear friends, latest links:

https://www.antiracketbari.it/1521889386/concasseur-vente-priy/9872.html 
https://www.centrumvoorzielenzakelijkheid.nl/data1/1574409649-single-stage-hammer-crusher-operating-principle/3119/ 
https://caseconnectionzone.org/best/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/13941.html 
https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/ 
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.bestin.cz/39470/7200118-hammer-crusher/ 
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jygnMminjOIJ:https://ristorante-ilcapriccio.it/187140/2014-06-06/jaw_crusher_klinker_1402038362.html+&cd=23&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://www.dreamtours.nl/8017/y_jaw_crusher/2018/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5Pgvp6TtmZkJ:https://www.bbaiboschi.it/price/441-comple-pendulum-crusher-assembly-drawing.html+&cd=81&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 22, 2020, 10:26:39 AM
What is the ratio of the periods of oscillation of the large lever and the pendulum?  1:1 ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 23, 2020, 02:18:14 AM
In case anyone missed this:


“Milkovich’s Invention” was shown to be in “commercial use” in the oil industry before he released the details of his ‘water pump’.
In short: he is not the inventor nor owner of this technology.and any patents he holds are not valid.


He merely had a unique way to describe and present the device for public use.


This technology belongs to Walter Trout of Lufkin, Tx. U.S.
Circa 1925


There is still nothing special about it
And noone has looped this system.
Nor does it produce any “excess” or anomalous energy.


There are no laws of physics violated by this device, and it conforms perfectly to our current scientific understanding of the pendulum.
The best use we could possibly make of Milkovich’s work is the design of a test unit that has greater accuracy than the ‘pendulum + peg’ example currently used in colleges.


It is analogous to a Flywheel
 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 23, 2020, 08:30:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os)
This is my version.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on August 23, 2020, 11:41:35 AM

It is analogous to a Flywheel
If this is so, why are people building all these implementations?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 23, 2020, 12:54:56 PM
Quote
There is still nothing special about it
And noone has looped this system.
Nor does it produce any “excess” or anomalous energy.

https://youtu.be/5ho0_obiakM (https://youtu.be/5ho0_obiakM)
What did Milkovich want to say with this flashlight video?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 24, 2020, 01:11:14 PM
New links:

https://www.badmintonneerpelt.be/crusher/15127.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1oKet0HAr-kJ:https://www.amautoriparazioni.it/data8/1582786100-2403-crushing-pendulum-crushing-machine/2403/+&cd=87&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs
https://www.bogaert-daneels.be/28268/grinder.html
https://www.leenadviescentrum.nl/data5/1583319227-mechanical-hammer-crusher-operation-principle/784/
https://www.scuolasantamarta.it/27474/Machinist_Hammer_Crusher_Go_Principle/1470942526.html
https://www.bogaert-daneels.be/grinder.html
https://www.solidus-akademie.de/4733/of-tph-ball-mill/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 31, 2020, 01:11:39 PM
Latest links:

https://www.sanvidal.it/Simple-Pendulum-Crusher/mining/3995.html
https://www.outlet-sieraden.nl/WERcrusher/15733/mesin_crusher_umum.html
https://alnamur.be/36215_description+on+minting+industries+over+the+world.html
https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
https://gerichtzichtbaar.nl/07_30/pendulum-machines/
https://www.pgservices.co.za/pendulum/mill/drawbackspendulum/mill/pressure/drop/4731.html
https://www.general-makina.com.tr/en/home
https://www.elmojito.it/2019-10-21/1276/1571677822.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QQk2Lya12rYJ:https://www.winhome.be/33190/1566061738/+&cd=32&hl=sr-Latn&ct=clnk&gl=rs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 07, 2020, 12:58:18 PM
New links:

https://www.gelateriagambrinus.it/sale/Jul_73/
https://www.bogaert-daneels.be/grinder.html
https://www.sri-thai.be/2019/12/212.html
https://biconce.co.za/BLGM/1048.html
https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/
https://www.pnoc.cz/2649/w3l1G2
https://caseconnectionzone.org/best/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/13941.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/
https://www.good-times.fr/2016-Aug-lindemann-kg-crusher-11022
https://www.bbnelmuro.it/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery/27722.html
______________________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 13, 2020, 12:42:06 PM
Latest links:

https://caseconnectionzone.org/best/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/13941.html
https://www.montrogoli.it/ball-mill/13876.html
https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/
 https://www.pnoc.cz/2649/w3l1G2
https://www.tritoneristorante.it/mining/Mar_3246/
https://www.lushh.in/Dapat/2018-12-08/hot-sale-european-trapezium-grinding-powder-machine/42109.html
https://www.dreamtours.nl/8017/y_jaw_crusher/2018/
https://ddst.nl/yutobe/crusher-working-principles-for-lime-stone.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 17, 2020, 01:12:25 PM
Nice visualizations


Milkovic Pendlum at Santa's Workshop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Ts5lTGNic

Milkovic Double Oscilating Pendulum. Free Energy design.Over Unity, Perpetual Motion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l87WHW2Ac08
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 20, 2020, 02:20:00 PM
New links:

https://www.annemiekekooijman.nl/coal/Apr-2705/
https://voiceupyourhands.fr/6446/41aDtz1.html
https://www.soproindia.in/crusher/metal-crusher-lindemann-price.html
https://botrivier.co.za/Prg/70552/lindemann-kg-crushers.html
https://www.bogaert-daneels.be/28268/grinder.html
https://www.lacantinaagriturismo.it/1566713314/9QV7i2.html
https://www.pnoc.cz/2649/w3l1G2
https://www.iceps.it/2014-10-08/888/
https://www.sri-thai.be/2019/12/212.html
https://caseconnectionzone.org/best/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/13941.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.ferienhaus-moldaustausee.de/minging/13699-air.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/
https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 27, 2020, 05:19:59 PM
Latest links:

https://www.parking-airport-charleroi.be/36308/7200118-hammer-crusher/
https://www.kfg-nrw.de/30147/2019-11-24/
https://www.antiracketbari.it/1521889386/concasseur-vente-priy/9872.html
https://www.lacantinaagriturismo.it/1566713314/9QV7i2.html
https://www.antiracketbari.it/1521889386/concasseur-vente-priy/9872.html
https://www.pnoc.cz/2649/w3l1G2
https://botrivier.co.za/Prg/70552/lindemann-kg-crushers.html
https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/
https://www.sri-thai.be/2019/12/212.html
https://www.fruitfuler.com/themes/stiner/product.html
https://voiceupyourhands.fr/6446/41aDtz1.html
https://jmcswiss.ch/Guo/FWLML/mining-pendulum-machine.html
https://www.soproindia.in/crusher/metal-crusher-lindemann-price.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://www.gelateriagambrinus.it/sale/Jul_73/
https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
https://www.dreamtours.nl/8017/y_jaw_crusher/2018/
https://voiceupyourhands.fr/6446/41aDtz1.html
________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 01, 2020, 11:25:08 AM
This is the crucial paper:

Synergy between Invested Energy and Gravitation in Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Synergy_between_Invested_Energy_and_Gravitation_in_Two-Stage_Mechanical_Oscillator.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Synergy_between_Invested_Energy_and_Gravitation_in_Two-Stage_Mechanical_Oscillator.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 04, 2020, 06:25:34 PM
New links:



https://www.structuur-management.nl/5/1583069778-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/3617/
https://www.prith-fc.fr/suppliers/2020_09_Thu_4026/
https://www.restaurant-volksmund.de/crusher/mechanical--principle--of--pendulum--mill.html
https://caseconnectionzone.org/best/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/13941.html
https://www.fourmat-band.de/en1/744/tsc1xb1o.html
https://hofteballooning.nl/117050/2019-10-28/rent_used_crusher_uk_machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
https://libragroupco.in/hammer-crusher/23193.html
https://www.elmojito.it/2019-10-21/1276/1571677822.html
https://www.elmojito.it/2019-10-21/1276/1571677822.html
https://www.badmintonneerpelt.be/crusher/15127.html
https://www.toby-sun.de/5707.html
https://www.henrionjardins.be/impact/hammer/crusher/working/principle/20896/
https://jennymorris.co.za/23485/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html
______________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 07, 2020, 01:46:35 PM
We missed here this great replica. Great work there indeed, my congratulations!


Final Update of Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnnzbXZ8G5U
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 07, 2020, 05:37:13 PM
How interesting... I also do this design, only in my own way.I have a loudspeaker as a generator. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: NdaClouDzzz on October 07, 2020, 05:50:22 PM
An interesting demonstration: https://youtu.be/CaUdGaIa1TI (https://youtu.be/CaUdGaIa1TI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 08, 2020, 08:51:13 AM
Quote
Final Update of Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnnzbXZ8G5U

And what conclusion does he draw from his experiment?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 11, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
New links:

https://www.confidant-sound.de/grinder/30645.html
https://patrickvandeweijer.nl/rockmill/1430121563/hammer-mills-pdf19342.html
https://capitalsigns.co.za/2001-Jul/hammer-mills-increased.html
https://capitalsigns.co.za/2001-Jul/hammer-mills-increased.html
https://www.lewybody.nl/VKGPM2/
https://www.wassong.be/article/11783.html
https://voiceupyourhands.fr/6446/41aDtz1.html
https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
https://casa-laura.nl/Jul/03_11658.html
https://www.bbnelmuro.it/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery/27722.html
https://casa-laura.nl/Jul/03_11658.html
https://www.rytmusd.cz/32007/two%20stage%20mill%20machinery/hbKJL2.html
https://duurzame-zorg.nl/FADmill/2013-Feb-4877-two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://beursvloerwageningen.nl/2012-Nov-30/2956.html
https://www.horskyapartmanzlato.cz/2126/gmpJP
https://huysmanfonds.nl/1482852948/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 18, 2020, 03:24:57 PM
Dear forum users, on these links you can see companies that produce machines according to the invention of Veljko Milković


https://www.nijenoert-leek.nl/broken-mine/4541_pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html
https://www.procef.nl/system/7433/pendulum-crushing-machine.html
https://www.grewe24.de/37722/03-Two_Stage_Mill_Machinery.html
https://www.champagnecottages.co.za/6863/high/quality/and/efficiency/pendulum/machine.html
https://www.pnoc.cz/2649/w3l1G2
https://www.iceps.it/2014-10-08/888/
https://www.henrionjardins.be/impact/hammer/crusher/working/principle/20896/
https://www.fruitfuler.com/themes/stiner/product.html
https://www.annemiekekooijman.nl/coal/Apr-2705/
_________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 25, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.bbhabitatcatania.it/2294/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher/1453579292.html

https://www.soproindia.in/crusher/metal-crusher-lindemann-price.html

https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/

https://www.ladefav.it/11380/XxCak1.html

https://restaurant-montreux.ch/1525958110-UITeORGB_pendulum+grinding+machine+germany-UITeORGB.html

https://www.zancomarmi.it/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery/34857/03/28/2015.html

https://krasnoludekmis.pl/41703/XNzNI.html

https://www.tcgtenis.pl/Pink/m6345p/two-stage-mill-machinery.html

https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html

https://www.palaceclub.cz/25851/flS8s.html

https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/

https://www.mooos.nl/mmUwT.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fpG8pxBYbWIJ:https://www.schoenmann-therapie.ch/34177_1PlOa/CI5X-Impact-crusher.html+&cd=31&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://stoly-pc.cz/6660/CkNc20/

http://www.chilefeld-aarwangen.ch/zHSAd2-st/2018/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 01, 2020, 12:38:41 PM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.


https://www.kern-ferien.de/artical/04-8085.html
https://www.ckiva.cz/29301.html
https://www.palaceclub.cz/25851/flS8s.html
https://www.mujlusk.cz/9zz000.html
https://www.kanzlei-starita.de/19076/2016-05-13/list_of_mining.html
https://www.fourmat-band.de/en1/744/tsc1xb1o.html
http://www.ftmindustry.com/product1.html
https://www.mediterraneaolive.it/51072/work-1555967049/
https://www.mkbhuisaccountants.nl/data2/1575769936-mechanical-hammer-crusher-operation-principle/5/
https://www.gelateriagambrinus.it/sale/Jul_73/
https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
https://www.gubler-liegenschaften.ch/4830/index.html
https://www.rhythermining.com/products/wet-grid-ball-mill/
https://www.amicidirachele.it/38220/eZg740.html
https://sdruzenimeluzinek.cz/3544/1453298482.html
https://sdruzenimeluzinek.cz/3544/1453298482.html
http://www.chilefeld-aarwangen.ch/zHSAd2-st/2018/
https://www.vonnie.co.za/jakarta/trapezium-mill-prices/
https://kundalini-luenen.de/grinding-mill/raw-mill-separator-by-negative-pressure-stone-crusher-for.html
https://www.netorderb.de/27859-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/
https://www.structuur-management.nl/5/1583069778-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/3617/
https://www.bedbreakfaststockbridge.co.uk/42080/19NH4O1.html
https://www.bbhabitatcatania.it/2294/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher/1453579292.html
https://loik.fr/10318_cobblestone/ty_44lz7P2/
https://www.dreamtours.nl/8017/y_jaw_crusher/2018/
https://inesgenovesi.it/mvEhw1HANF
https://villapalmeira.co.za/Apr-17/28999.html
https://www.seasidewedding.it/3544/1484913679.html
https://www.nutrofit.cz/110460/rental/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle.html
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 08, 2020, 02:58:49 PM
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.zizkovylazne.cz/3963/2014-03-28/
https://www.erholungsort-bodenmais.de/7907/12-14/zw.html
https://www.pimsoftdesign.nl/930/2016-11-02/8DKT72.html
https://www.structuur-management.nl/5/1583069778-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/3617/
https://www.bedbreakfaststockbridge.co.uk/42080/19NH4O1.html
https://www.lektoruciebie.pl/29447/2018-11-30/l9PRd1.html
https://www.kern-ferien.de/artical/04-8085.html
https://www.wassong.be/article/11783.html 
https://www.wassong.be/article/11783.html
https://www.bbnelmuro.it/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery/27722.html
https://casa-laura.nl/Jul/03_11658.html
https://casa-laura.nl/Jul/03_11658.html
https://www.rytmusd.cz/32007/two%20stage%20mill%20machinery/hbKJL2.html
https://www.champagnecottages.co.za/6863/high/quality/and/efficiency/pendulum/machine.html
https://www.bogaert-daneels.be/28268/grinder.html
https://www.fruitfuler.com/themes/stiner/product.html
https://beursvloerwageningen.nl/2012-Nov-30/2956.html
https://duurzame-zorg.nl/FADmill/2013-Feb-4877-two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://www.ladefav.it/11380/XxCak1.html
https://www.sennereisufers.ch/barite/Sep_Thu_2615.html
https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/
https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/
https://ccsensee.ch/15505+2020-10-19/manufacturer/
https://ouderverenigingvbsdehaan.be/OUDmill/2016-Jun-1788-trepezium-mill-price.html
______________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 14, 2020, 03:43:47 PM
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.timeoutsurplus.nl/ballmill-2019/4979/

https://www.mujlusk.cz/9zz000.html

https://holzbau-reichlin.ch/54914/584SDO1_Apr.html

https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/

https://sdruzenimeluzinek.cz/3544/1453298482.html

https://www.mpas-antilles.fr/UFXKJ.html

https://ccsensee.ch/15505+2020-10-19/manufacturer/

https://www.palaceclub.cz/25851/flS8s.html

https://www.ionoforesi.ch/2017+Apr+02/ZCuW9.html

https://www.timeoutsurplus.nl/ballmill-2019/4979/

https://www.prominetech.com/ball-mill-rod-mill-grinding-system/

https://www.vonnie.co.za/jakarta/trapezium-mill-prices/

https://www.veneripiergiorgio.it/mobile-137804/1592571994.html
_________________________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 21, 2020, 12:53:08 PM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.ferienhof-berger.at/2020-02-18/7675_apex+mill+pdf/
https://www.fruitfuler.com/themes/stiner/product.html
https://www.wassong.be/article/11783.html
https://www.bbhabitatcatania.it/2294/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher/1453579292.html
https://www.soproindia.in/crusher/metal-crusher-lindemann-price.html
https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/
https://www.ladefav.it/11380/XxCak1.html
https://restaurant-montreux.ch/1525958110-UITeORGB_pendulum+grinding+machine+germany-UITeORGB.html
https://www.zancomarmi.it/Two-Stage-Mill-Machinery/34857/03/28/2015.html
https://krasnoludekmis.pl/41703/XNzNI.html
https://www.tcgtenis.pl/Pink/m6345p/two-stage-mill-machinery.html
https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
https://www.palaceclub.cz/25851/flS8s.html
https://www.prominetech.com/plant-module/
https://www.mooos.nl/mmUwT.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fpG8pxBYbWIJ:https://www.schoenmann-therapie.ch/34177_1PlOa/CI5X-Impact-crusher.html+&cd=31&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs
https://stoly-pc.cz/6660/CkNc20/ 
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 21, 2020, 10:47:11 PM
A new paper from India:


Agriculture Machine of Seed Sower, Weeder and Water Sprayer
https://www.journals.resaim.com/ijresm/article/view/373/346
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 28, 2020, 12:51:01 PM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants!

http://www.mraagenda.nl/stone/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle.html
https://www.byty-bernackova.cz/07gA60-ss
https://www.pojistny.cz/dqg_crusher_fghf3/1552867407/606Air1.html
https://kundalini-luenen.de/grinding-mill/raw-mill-separator-by-negative-pressure-stone-crusher-for.html
https://www.pierreraetz.ch/1650/b6xdk.html
http://pojistenadomacnost.cz/2018+Feb+21/X4cEr.html
https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
https://mcap.fr/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher-11572.html
https://holzbau-reichlin.ch/54914/584SDO1_Apr.html
https://www.depannageenplomberie.be/2018_03_01/9334.html
https://www.kringkbcbrugge.be/j8kTy0
https://www.plodtorg-ksu.ru/grinding_mill/price_of_trapezium_grinding_mills-11965.html
https://alohaterracina.it/Kak7b1.html
https://www.gubler-liegenschaften.ch/4830/index.html
https://www.sri-thai.be/2019/12/212.html
https://www.annemiekekooijman.nl/coal/Apr-2705/
https://www.pnoc.cz/2649/w3l1G2
https://www.carpinteria-ananos.es/08/Sep-4299.html
https://www.hovp.nl/RVRJB1/sitemap.xml
https://www.ubytujpejska.cz/47219/1543864352/jaw_crusher_gila.html
https://autokosmetikapraha.cz/23615/2018/35cjHj1.html
https://www.mpas-antilles.fr/UFXKJ.html
http://eventiinlive.it/Crusher/2020/0911/2331.html
https://www.willa-sylwia-swieradow.pl/karnataka/Jan-3756-15/
https://www.loft-7.site/
https://www.mooos.nl/mmUwT.html
https://www.bohemia-elenor.cz/35018/1665xX2_Fe.html
https://www.pierreraetz.ch/1650/b6xdk.html
_________________________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 28, 2020, 01:42:54 PM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.

Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.

The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

http://www.mraagenda.nl/stone/machinist_hammer_crusher_go_principle.html

https://www.byty-bernackova.cz/07gA60-ss

https://www.pojistny.cz/dqg_crusher_fghf3/1552867407/606Air1.html

https://kundalini-luenen.de/grinding-mill/raw-mill-separator-by-negative-pressure-stone-crusher-for.html

https://www.pierreraetz.ch/1650/b6xdk.html

http://pojistenadomacnost.cz/2018+Feb+21/X4cEr.html

https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html

https://mcap.fr/pendulum_magnet_for_crusher-11572.html

https://holzbau-reichlin.ch/54914/584SDO1_Apr.html

https://www.depannageenplomberie.be/2018_03_01/9334.html

https://www.kringkbcbrugge.be/j8kTy0

https://www.plodtorg-ksu.ru/grinding_mill/price_of_trapezium_grinding_mills-11965.html

https://alohaterracina.it/Kak7b1.html

https://www.gubler-liegenschaften.ch/4830/index.html

https://www.sri-thai.be/2019/12/212.html

https://www.annemiekekooijman.nl/coal/Apr-2705/

https://www.pnoc.cz/2649/w3l1G2

https://www.carpinteria-ananos.es/08/Sep-4299.html

https://www.hovp.nl/RVRJB1/sitemap.xml

https://www.ubytujpejska.cz/47219/1543864352/jaw_crusher_gila.html

https://autokosmetikapraha.cz/23615/2018/35cjHj1.html

https://www.mpas-antilles.fr/UFXKJ.html

http://eventiinlive.it/Crusher/2020/0911/2331.html

https://www.willa-sylwia-swieradow.pl/karnataka/Jan-3756-15/

https://www.loft-7.site/

https://www.mooos.nl/mmUwT.html

https://www.bohemia-elenor.cz/35018/1665xX2_Fe.html

https://www.pierreraetz.ch/1650/b6xdk.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on November 28, 2020, 10:18:39 PM
Veljko Milković is, I think a good man.

This device is not O.U.

Veljko Milković has him self, acknowledged that this is not an O.U. device.

Interesting device. 

The claim Veljko Milković originally put forward was that the device is a kind of one directional mechanical energy transmission device.

Unlike meshed gears, the energy can efficiently flow only in the direction of.....
                   from the small pendulum to the rocking arm.

But also... unlike meshed gear transmission,  stopping the motion of the out put mechanism
does not stop the motion of the input part of the device. 

       example
The device doesn't jam if too large of a stone gets under the hammer. 

In many other types of transmission systems, a "jam"can strip gears or cause electric motors to stop dead and burn up and so on.

Also, it is a very energy efficient transmission method / device.

    regards
      floor
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on November 29, 2020, 08:43:36 AM
Quote
But also... unlike meshed gear transmission,  stopping the motion of the out put mechanism
does not stop the motion of the input part of the device.
Can't a ratchet or a friction clutch perform the same function?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 05, 2020, 11:20:14 AM

Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
 

Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.

 

The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.
https://www.sevaro.pl/29104/.html

https://www.lequattrostelle.it/18290/VSVV72.html

https://modernizacjasieci.pl/crushing/2020-Mar-31/2426.html

https://www.fc-randa.ch/BtJlD

https://www.mpas-antilles.fr/UFXKJ.html

https://www.sk-aqua.de/JaMVA/1535054883.html

https://m.chinese.alibaba.com/p-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic-62177499193.html

https://www.bohemia-elenor.cz/35018/1665xX2_Fe.html

https://www.cantatcl.cz/30292/tMjNn.html

https://www.annemiekekooijman.nl/coal/Apr-2705/

https://www.loft-7.site/

https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html

https://www.willa-sylwia-swieradow.pl/karnataka/Jan-3756-15/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 08, 2020, 09:23:40 PM
https://www.lequattrostelle.it/18290/VSVV72.html

https://modernizacjasieci.pl/crushing/2020-Mar-31/2426.html

https://www.fc-randa.ch/BtJlD
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on December 09, 2020, 10:39:25 PM
Veljko Milković did not invent this device / method.
It was in use long before our time.

However he is due credit for his reintroduction of it. 
It has become a broadly  implemented and very useful method / device
with many applications.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 12, 2020, 11:34:26 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
 

Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.

 

The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.


https://depannageenplomberie.be/2018_03_01/9334.html

https://www.fc-randa.ch/BtJlD

https://www.mujlusk.cz/9zz000.html

https://www.sk-aqua.de/JaMVA/1535054883.html

https://www.roccoimmobiliareischia.it/346266_Jan/.html

https://www.sevaro.pl/29104/.html

https://www.stomatologcentrum.pl/18935+2016-08-24/%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%D9%86+Raymond+Roller+Mill+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B2%D9%88%D8%AF.html

https://vbb-gr.ch/Sreen/lindemann_kg_crusher_3047.html

https://aktywne-maluchy.pl/machinery/Nov_3051_Tue/

https://www.pierreraetz.ch/1650/b6xdk.html

https://www.sarvar-park-inn.cz/2049/2015-08-28/VExc0.html

https://www.giannasca.it/31523/TYLvr0_Jul.html

https://www.bohemia-elenor.cz/35018/1665xX2_Fe.html

https://www.prominetech.com/ball-mill-rod-mill-grinding-system/

https://www.carpinteria-ananos.es/08/Sep-4299.html

https://www.willa-sylwia-swieradow.pl/karnataka/Jan-3756-15/

https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html

https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/

https://www.inahena.nl/30076_OPTah0/CI5X-Impact-crusher.html

https://www.annemiekekooijman.nl/coal/Apr-2705/

https://m.chinese.alibaba.com/p-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic-62177499193.html

https://www.glenviewguesthouse.co.za/Pro/tk6zr6-mtw-european-grinding-mill.html

https://www.prominetech.com/

https://historycultures.de/20-02-22nd/1582302167_serbia+energy+saving+wolframite+roughing+cPuXRrPd.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 12, 2020, 09:15:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV5IrRnG79Y&app=desktop&fbclid=IwAR1KtgjHsu91gNqFuyVmQdfu9rVW98vDuiaIi7NJ6r8T6w6w_eZGE9nVcyE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 19, 2020, 11:24:05 AM
Most of the world's companies do not hide that they produce and sell machines for heavy industry made according to the principle of the two-stage mechanical oscillator invented by Novi Sad resident Veljko Milković. about 500 such companies have no problem putting the name of our famous inventor, however there are quite a number of those who do not mention his name.



These corporations advertise products even through google ads.

I don't mind that world experts have used the pendulum to make useful efficient crushers that are in any case more cost-effective than any machine that works on the principle of rotation. Machines based on oscillations, among other things, protect the environment, and that is why I am very proud, because my thirty years of work have paid off. The production of machines on the principle of my invention put "icing on the cake" because, in addition to numerous research and scientific papers, but also in addition to numerous disputes, it was finally proven that the invention is very functional - says Milković.

However, he believes that other companies should put his name next to the machine they sell.

My patent is protected in Serbia, but not abroad, and that is why this is not a theft. I simply created the site in 2005 and with that move I literally put everything on the plate for science and engineers.
states Veljko Milković

He believes that in the future there will be even more companies that will sell or produce machines on the principle of a two-stage mechanical oscillator.

These are just some of the companies that do not mention Veljko Milković:

https://verdes.com/en/pendulum-mills.html

https://www.habitan.pl/other-crushing-plant/cju7b675/mill.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 19, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
 

Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.

 

The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.giannasca.it/31523/TYLvr0_Jul.html
https://ccsensee.ch/15505+2020-10-19/manufacturer/ 

https://www.mujlusk.cz/9zz000.html

https://www.habitan.pl/other-crushing-plant/cju7b675/mill.html

https://stoczniaustka.pl/powder/4904/

http://pojistenadomacnost.cz/2018+Feb+21/X4cEr.html

http://pojistenadomacnost.cz/2018+Feb+21/X4cEr.html

http://www.deedmachine.com/product/vertical-milling-machine?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjrLhm_TX7QIVE6-yCh2aMQ5QEAMYAiAAEgI89vD_BwE

https://www.posadse.cz/24736/hyp.html

https://www.fornocoppini.it/weight/36556_Sep/

https://ccsensee.ch/15505+2020-10-19/manufacturer/

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 26, 2020, 11:21:46 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.


https://www.szkola-trzemietowo.pl/17611/CrROj

https://www.trenertenis.cz/powder-grinding-mill/91azx-trapezium.html

https://modernizacjasieci.pl/crushing/2020-Mar-31/2426.html

https://www.megapneuservis.cz/33951/2019-11-11/elUYB0.html

https://www.nobodyhome.nl/basic_rockcrushing_theory_13700.html

https://normaserveert.nl/10982/ball-mill.html

https://www.meow-at-the-moon.org/93178/2018-Feb-2/jaw_crusher_gila_complex_pendulum_crusher_assembly_drawing.html

https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/

https://www.fourmat-band.de/en1/744/tsc1xb1o.html

https://www.madrasbistro.pl/ku40-2/4686/pendulum-grinding-machine-usa.html

https://rapie.nl/2016_May_06+11337.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/

https://www.giannasca.it/31523/TYLvr0_Jul.html
https://www.schlegelconsulting.ch/cost/Jun-2128/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 02, 2021, 11:31:10 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.



https://www.quantumparticles.ch/jaZCk/51088.html

https://www.obrazy-andrle.cz/18286_58xhXc3/Jan-production.html

https://doxxx.pl/5114/1605676294.html

https://classicweddingwheels.nl/36305/224kD42_2017.html

http://eventiinlive.it/Crusher/2020/0911/2331.html

https://classicweddingwheels.nl/36305/224kD42_2017.html

https://www.obrazy-andrle.cz/18286_58xhXc3/Jan-production.html

https://www.nobodyhome.nl/basic_rockcrushing_theory_13700.html

https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/

https://www.gemeindebibliothek-frutigen.ch/37103/2018-02-24/WQqAf.html

https://normaserveert.nl/10982/86Uwz2.html

https://piwaniepasteryzowane.pl/Apr/12_raymond-pendulum-raymond/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 05, 2021, 06:48:26 PM
ANNOUNCEMENT
 
 Veljko Milkovic: Everyone can use my invention, I ask NOTHING IN RETURN!
 
 In recent days, many have been asking the Serbian inventor Veljko Milkovic why he is not asking for money from the companies around the world that produce and sell machines for heavy industry and which are based on his patented technology of the two-stage mechanical oscillator.

 Milkovic states that he is not interested in money and that he is glad that with this move he finally proved that his invention is the greatest invention of all time.

 - I'm not asking for anything, and everything I posted on the website is free, everyone has the right to look at the calculations and hire experts to make a machine with the help of which they will get free energy or cost reduction. I thank all the companies that mention me, and those that do not mention me could get started, because it does not cost them anything. I am still open for conversation and cooperation, and since I have an improved solution of a two-stage mechanical oscillator, I invite everyone interested to contact me for a free consultation.

 Milkovic notes that companies that want to work on perfecting their machines, and on the account of his invention, are free to contact me, and at the same time he approves that everyone can use the drafts, without any obligations.

 Novi Sad, Serbia, December 2020
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 08, 2021, 07:38:56 PM
New Milkovic pendulum replicas:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRXlezo5wFI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w69ke4K3XwI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD0AaELsXWs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 09, 2021, 12:01:41 PM
https://www.szybkieodsniezanie.com.pl/Feb-01/gray_oxide_ball_mill_manufacturer_in_Vietnam/25854.html

https://www.alpakas-von-der-hoeh.de/milling-machine/5gyi2az7/trapezium.html

http://www.ilgiardinodeifolletti.it/9381/55LfXP1.html

https://www.mosel-wein-kultur-erlebnis.de/milling-machine/efozrizr/trapezium.html

https://www.inahena.nl/30076_OPTah0/CI5X-Impact-crusher.html

https://www.zamowzwyzke.pl/Grinding/2019/4742-mtw-110-mill-price.html

https://www.smakowityprzystanek.pl/2019-Jun-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-1691.html

https://www.acidacid.ch/kenya/Jul_54/

https://es.hmard.com/

https://www.chaes-gruebi.ch/uganda/Nov_25_3442/

https://www.alpakas-von-der-hoeh.de/milling-machine/5gyi2az7/trapezium.html

https://doxxx.pl/5114/1605676294.html

https://classicweddingwheels.nl/36305/224kD42_2017.html
https://www.1sc.nl/AaXSk1/2019/07/02.html

https://www.habitan.pl/other-crushing-plant/cju7b675/mill.html

Veljko Milkovic: Everyone can use my invention, I ask NOTHING IN RETURN!
 
 In recent days, many have been asking the Serbian inventor Veljko Milkovic why he is not asking for money from the companies around the world that produce and sell machines for heavy industry and which are based on his patented technology of the two-stage mechanical oscillator.

 Milkovic states that he is not interested in money and that he is glad that with this move he finally proved that his invention is the greatest invention of all time.

 - I'm not asking for anything, and everything I posted on the website is free, everyone has the right to look at the calculations and hire experts to make a machine with the help of which they will get free energy or cost reduction. I thank all the companies that mention me, and those that do not mention me could get started, because it does not cost them anything. I am still open for conversation and cooperation, and since I have an improved solution of a two-stage mechanical oscillator, I invite everyone interested to contact me for a free consultation.

 Milkovic notes that companies that want to work on perfecting their machines, and on the account of his invention, are free to contact me, and at the same time he approves that everyone can use the drafts, without any obligations.

 Novi Sad, Serbia,


















Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 16, 2021, 04:42:59 PM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.
The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.fourmat-band.de/en1/744/tsc1xb1o.html

https://www.anjouchauffageplomberie.fr/2020-20-30/35397.html

https://www.kapselstrends.nl/LOCcrusher/15054.html

https://www.sarvar-park-inn.cz/2049/2015-08-28/VExc0.html

https://www.studiomichaela.cz/xF3cc/2020-Jun/1591092399.html

https://www.customclubs.ch/30741/2017-07-02/

https://piwaniepasteryzowane.pl/Apr/12_raymond-pendulum-raymond/

https://www.dreammix.ch/18324/

https://www.szyjemy24.pl/stone/10794.html

https://www.lecivesymboly.cz/2018-04-27/5774/

https://www.giannasca.it/31523/TYLvr0_Jul.html

https://alohaterracina.it/Kak7b1.html

https://piwaniepasteryzowane.pl/Apr/12_raymond-pendulum-raymond/

https://www.dreammix.ch/18324/

https://www.autobusy-poznan.pl/plant/May_2191.html

https://www.pizzaudoktora.cz/2043/40zIO1.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 23, 2021, 11:35:54 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
 

Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.

 

The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.



https://princeoftheeast.nl/1609063822-CvzjipYv_mtw-grinding-mill.html

https://www.kinfo.be/2018/11/15_21568.html

https://jugendblock.de/aizcho6q/price-of-trapezium-grinding-mills.html

https://www.madrasbistro.pl/ku40-2/4686/pendulum-grinding-machine-usa.html

https://www.bruder-thadeus.de/other/11134.html

https://libragroupco.in/hammer-crusher/23193.html

http://eventiinlive.it/Crusher/2020/0911/2331.html

https://www.bkmf2019.ch/

https://www.skala-tech.pl/1113/eu-standard-mtw-mill-.html

https://www.magnaalu.pl/8775/LfQiw1

https://www.elanguage.pl/02/8394/of-mtw-mills/

https://www.bednaklub.cz/23903/2017-09-18/l55jC0

https://www.fourmat-band.de/en1/744/tsc1xb1o.html

https://www.1sc.nl/AaXSk1/2019/07/02.html

https://normaserveert.nl/10982/ball-mill.html

https://www.waldemarpanek.pl/23885/44VZGz1.html

https://www.protest-konstytucyjna.pl/pfw/7528/21_Jan_10

https://jugendblock.de/aizcho6q/price-of-trapezium-grinding-mills.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 30, 2021, 11:29:03 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
 

Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.

 

The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.



https://www.deutschsos.pl/six/2021-01-08/1548/

https://www.zivotnanecisto.cz/vertical/32372-2020.html

https://www.bkmf2019.ch/host/9246/hot-selling-and-high-output-calcite-grinding-mill.html

https://kimbeez.co.za/2020-Dec-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html

https://www.saravermeulen.be/data8/1591676335-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/297/

https://shahjalal92.fr/Nov-998/mining-machinery-compound-pendulum-grinding-ball-mill/

https://www.centrumproridice.cz/4221/2019-11-07/

https://www.naski-location-vannes.fr/mtw/860_pendulum-machines/

https://www.habitan.pl/other-crushing-plant/cju7b675/mill.html

https://www.domorac.cz/18864/2016-06-08/

https://www.tritoneristorante.it/mining/Mar_3246/

https://www.hauswerk-lindner.de/other-crushing-plant/c9jmg7ng/mining.html

https://www.obeckridluvky.cz/news/15361/cb03710.html
(Pendulum feeder is suitable for beneficiation, coal, chemicals and other sectors, ... including automotive, aerospace, bearing, construction, energy and medical ... in china pendulum machines of veljko milkovic differential equation for physical ...)


https://www.kaiserring-apotheke.de/other-crushing-plant/4ijt6th6/The.html

https://www.platformdesign.fr/69/EmEnd3.html

https://www.renatevanlaarhoven.nl/wash/2020-12-3229/

https://www.smakowityprzystanek.pl/2019-Jun-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle-1691.html

https://www.invid.cz/other/11928.html

https://www.elanguage.pl/02/8394/of-mtw-mills/

https://www.akademiatanca-lublin.pl/industries-35564/sBLca.html

https://www.protest-konstytucyjna.pl/pfw/7528/21_Jan_10

https://www.bazo-installatie.nl/stone/718.html

https://zooforum.pl/Sreen/complex_pendulum_crusher_assembly_drawing_2197.html

https://princeoftheeast.nl/1609063822-CvzjipYv_mtw-grinding-mill.html

https://artillustris.nl/roller_mtw_trapezium_grinding_mill/09/04/

https://normaserveert.nl/10982/ball-mill.html

https://www.vol-mar.cz/data5/Aug-3187/

https://ivn-roden.nl/7258/mill-gypsum-iron.html

https://www.obrazy-andrle.cz/18286_58xhXc3/Jan-production.html




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 06, 2021, 11:36:02 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.
The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.


https://derschnellezillertaler.ch/2572/Jaw/1558307146.html

https://www.sbmmfj.com/?from=www.yvonvanmegen.nl
 https://www.lartdelamaconnerie.fr/20-Apr-11/1024.html

http://annemarie-illustrator.nl/pyrrhotite-5r-mill-13502/

https://icfcs-2020.com/11790-03_trapezium-gold-ore-grinding-mill-for-sale-XOhsfYiF.html

https://silesianguide.cz/feldspar/

https://www.speciaalcentraal.nl/equipment/2020-10-1979/

https://www.bruder-thadeus.de/other/11134.html

https://normaserveert.nl/10982/ball-mill.html

https://www.digi-sn.pl/used/trapezium/mill/for/sale_10759.html

https://www.digi-sn.pl/used/trapezium/mill/for/sale_10759.html

https://www.kartomantie.cz/produkty/2019-11-11/w9z61z.html

https://www.elanguage.pl/23/22/sand-trapezium-mill/

https://www.techtrix.ch/14642/Aug/22/

https://www.skupinababylon.cz/rock/Jun_2006/

https://restaurantelblauet.com/2019-Jun-mtw-european-trapezium-mill-for-sale-4378

https://arnovandongen.nl/data2/scm-grinding-mill/2499/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 13, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.


http://www.uslugispawalniczeslask.pl/rock/176-Jul/

https://rolniktradycyjny.pl/lead/829/21_02_Wed/

https://rzeczywdomu.pl/crusher/3217.html

https://www.vol-mar.cz/data5/Aug-3187/

http://www.coronna.pl/jaw/782_Dec/

https://www.caffepohoda.cz/31709/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/zw.html

https://leczenie-zebow.pl/other-grind-mill/4ujgggn7/gypsum.html

https://www.lvgu.ch/13320/i8l8L0

https://antrening.pl/9039/sitemap.xml

https://libragroupco.in/hammer-crusher/23193.html

https://workshops4u.nl/16076/jaw/

https://www.tgmjihlava.cz/3212/index.html

https://aupairfamily.nl/43644//.html

https://derschnellezillertaler.ch/3180/Jaw/1594246037.html
(nigeria)

https://derschnellezillertaler.ch/2572/Jaw/1558307146.html
 (brazil)

https://araczek.pl/14720+1521363784.html

https://robrutdistribution.pl/2019-04-14/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher.html

https://kimbeez.co.za/2020-Dec-machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle.html

https://kamasolutions.pl/19756/indonesia/1519020122.html

https://digi-sn.pl/mtw/milling/machine/for/sale_15224.html

https://www.bkmf2019.ch/host/9246/hot-selling-and-high-output-calcite-grinding-mill.html

https://www.akademiatanca-lublin.pl/industries-35564/sBLca.html

https://modernizacjasieci.pl/crushing/2020-Mar-31/2426.html

https://www.fourmat-band.de/en1/744/tsc1xb1o.html

https://groszownik.pl/2020-20-03/3982.html

https://www.bk-by-fonq.nl/stone/8351.html

https://www.techtrix.ch/13697/Jul/23/

http://annemarie-illustrator.nl/pyrrhotite-5r-mill-13502/

https://www.hauswerk-lindner.de/other-crushing-plant/c9jmg7ng/mining.html

https://www.laasy.cz/widely/18EjHM2-26155/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 20, 2021, 11:30:13 AM
https://www.lesptitsolympiens.fr/31685/2020_Feb.html

https://modernizacjasieci.pl/crushing/2020-Mar-31/2426.html

https://www.cfasup.fr/2587/2019-03-10/htC2S1


https://www.vbar.ch/14510/Uv4Iw2.html

https://www.schlegelconsulting.ch/cost/Jun-2128/

https://www.foto-on-line.cz/11744/6RYb7/2016-07-15/

https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/

https://www.speciaalcentraal.nl/ore/2020-12-1451/

https://www.build-repair.eu/data3/1589772914-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/


https://www.cistenikoberculipa.cz/6031/korea/mass_balance_MTW_grinding_mill_/1603087806.html

https://ivn-roden.nl/2290/mill-machine-sinhala.html



http://www.uslugispawalniczeslask.pl/rock/176-Jul/

https://rolniktradycyjny.pl/lead/829/21_02_Wed/

https://rzeczywdomu.pl/crusher/3217.html

https://www.vol-mar.cz/data5/Aug-3187/

http://www.coronna.pl/jaw/782_Dec/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 27, 2021, 11:50:09 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.
https://www.protest-konstytucyjna.pl/pfw/5085/21_Jan_10

https://vlcek-stravovani.cz/14773/bLjBB0.html

https://www.davylunenburg.be/7448/

https://witrazeartystyczne.pl/Feb_23-522.html

https://www.fotbal-way.cz/concrete/2020-09-30-93/

https://www.basicozgoda.pl/257/Sep_1601017776/

https://festiwalpodrozni.pl/data16/4375-Sep-2020.html

https://casablancadelsol.com.mx/Bxin/12_libya-gypsum-trapezium-mill-supplie-3986690830.html


https://pizzeriawedwoje.pl/2018-Jul-trapezoid-grinding-machine-trapezoid-grinding-mill-mtw-27930


https://www.habitan.pl/other-crushing-plant/cju7b675/mill.html

https://www.blue-dot.cz/2018/21919/1525975526

https://www.vente-fermetures-colmar.fr/27_5740/

https://www.bylinkovazahradazirec.cz/43472/1qLcD.html

http://wandelsportneeritter.nl/31647/20_Jan/lumilipad-na-hammer-crusher.html

https://classicweddingwheels.nl/36305/224kD42_2017.html

http://www.dwortargowiska.pl/2017-Dec-22/mining-pendulum-machine.html

https://www.chaes-gruebi.ch/uganda/Nov_25_3442/


https://bhp-gomar.pl/2020-20-28/29302.html


https://agrarhandel-loepfe.ch/4315/industry-1560081960/

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 04, 2021, 12:01:31 AM

Similar principle like Veljko Milkovic's pendulum cart


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUf4EG8tFE8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IanutbI1ZZs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 04, 2021, 03:40:24 AM
a new interesting replica

Ray's Small Distance Generator With Pendulum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDGxSK6sEU4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDGxSK6sEU4)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 05, 2021, 11:37:54 AM
Veljko Milković companx -500




--https://www.hauswerk-lindner.de/other-crushing-plant/c9jmg7ng/mining.html

https://rzeczywdomu.pl/crusher/3217.html

https://wynajem-jachtu.pl/z5js5o/3644.html

https://antrening.pl/9039/sitemap.xml

https://www.blue-dot.cz/2018/21919/1525975526

https://www.prodejpalubekpraha.cz/produkty/2020-08-11/bi4st6.html

https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/

https://www.konferenceft.cz/6369/7Wv4n

https://www.tapasbarlabodega.nl/data13/22073/2020/05/28

https://www.madeira-diving.de/screen/615-Jan.html

https://normaserveert.nl/10982/ball-mill.html

https://www.metanet.cz/cone/mtw-110-mill-price/1319/

https://modernizacjasieci.pl/crushing/2020-Mar-31/2426.html

https://www.biblioteka-kamienkr.pl/india/2020_Aug_14_3958/

https://www.uni-stolmeble.pl/6448/32ny9y2/Oct.html

http://deraadgeverintra.nl/2019-09-1568280093.html

https://casablancadelsol.com.mx/Bxin/12_libya-gypsum-trapezium-mill-supplie-3986690830.html

https://meexcleaning.online/18/mill_gypsum_quarrie_machinery/20861.html

https://www.elanguage.pl/02/8394/of-mtw-mills/

https://localrepair.be/2018_05_25/18186.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 12, 2021, 11:34:59 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.
https://www.hauswerk-lindner.de/other-crushing-plant/c9jmg7ng/mining.html

https://www.lustaufreben.de/ore/20/trapezium-mill-parts-material-china.html

https://www.beergondia.be/wash/2021-01-63/

https://www.konferenceft.cz/6369/7Wv4n

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/wet-grid-ball-mill/

https://www.giannasca.it/31523/TYLvr0_Jul.html

https://www.hotelturksandcaicos.com/2020-Nov-quality-trapezium-grinding-mill-price-zimbabwe-20944

https://www.vente-fermetures-colmar.fr/14_30850/

https://www.beergondia.be/wash/2021-01-63/

https://citytowerhotelbhb.store/2021_03_04+38572.html

https://holzbau-reichlin.ch/54914/584SDO1_Apr.html

https://antrening.pl/9039/sitemap.xml

https://www.magnaalu.pl/8775/LfQiw1

https://rzeczywdomu.pl/crusher/3217.html

https://normaserveert.nl/10982/ball-mill.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 19, 2021, 11:30:43 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://buchner-express.nl/6198/01/

https://www.elanguage.pl/12/18303/series-trapezium-mill/

https://www.madeira-diving.de/screen/615-Jan.html

https://www.exaltosport.nl/12338/7vyDw1

https://wynajem-jachtu.pl/z5js5o/3644.html

https://www.vente-fermetures-colmar.fr/14_30850/

https://citytowerhotelbhb.store/2021_03_04+38572.html

https://www.fotopalast.ch/data5/20341_2020-09-25

https://antrening.pl/9039/sitemap.xml

https://eratuszowa.pl/data4/6215/lvkf.html



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on March 21, 2021, 09:14:00 AM
By the output side I mean the longer side opposite the pendulum. Is the device more efficient if more weight is added to this side, or is that detrimental?

For those who are testing this device, remember: the potential energy input into the pendulum (in joules) is found by the formula mgh m=mass of pendulum (in kg) g=9.8 m/s h=height in meters that the center of mass of the pendulum is raised.

Although Milkovic's flashlight experiment was somewhat helpful, the part where he showed that the flashlight used for the input powered 9 others was unconvincing. He obviously input more energy then required to light the one flashlight on each stroke because his hand+the flashlight had kinetic energy when it struck the pendulum.


Not so. His hand + the flashlight was not in contact with the pendulum, only
the sprung lever actually makes contact.

The secondary lever is akin to a teeter totter. two boys of equal weight at an
equal distance make it go with a modest kick off of one pair of legs.

One fat man and one small boy can still teeter totter if you adjust the fulcrum.

If you add too much weight to the output side in a Veljko device the pendulum will
not lift it.

The output side of the secondary arm has two strokes, an up and a down.

Think of it this way if you wish... the pendulum, on it's down stroke, lifts the
counter weight. Gravity lowers the counter weight on the pendulum's up stroke.

You can extract this resulting force equally on both strokes, or bias it to favor one
or the other stroke.

Ron
Why in the beginning there was such a lively discussion, but now everything has disappeared into oblivion?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on March 22, 2021, 06:14:28 AM
https://youtu.be/CEVyurd5vNk (https://youtu.be/CEVyurd5vNk)
is it as a variant of the Milkovich device?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 26, 2021, 11:23:38 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.
The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.



https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://speedcourier.be/2020-Jul-17_30398.html

https://www.madeira-diving.de/screen/615-Jan.html

https://casablancadelsol.com.mx/Bxin/12_libya-gypsum-trapezium-mill-supplie-3986690830.html

https://www.ravelslow.pl/Miningproductionline/bPz9V1_38671/

https://citytowerhotelbhb.store/2021_03_04+38572.html

https://wodzislawnoclegi.pl/ballmill/10393/1492470280.html

http://sigmatychy.pl/01_Jan_2006_955.html

https://zakladszkolenia.com.pl/Nov-Mon-4718/Specifications-For-Hammer-Crushers-In-Pdf.php

https://www.fourmat-band.de/en1/744/tsc1xb1o.html

https://eratuszowa.pl/data4/6215/lvkf.html

https://www.voedselbanknoordwijkerhout.nl/data3/1575471934-pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/104/

https://keku.cz/data7/1970-01-01-Thu-How-Mtw-European-Trapezium-Grinding-Mill-Works--2020/5212/

https://www.al-capone.cz/7713/dWEkb/2019-12-30/

https://www.nobodyhome.nl/basic_rockcrushing_theory_13700.html

https://kamasolutions.pl/19756/indonesia/1519020122.html

https://www.magnaalu.pl/8775/LfQiw1

https://normaserveert.nl/10982/86Uwz2.html

https://www.riverband.be/18684/2018-Jul/Vg4Gy1

https://podhalanskialarmsmogowy.pl/724/MEsTd0_04/

https://www.josephvadakkel.pl/16806/2kNS61.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 02, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.
The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.speciaalcentraal.nl/ore/2020-12-1451/

https://www.internationales-zaubertheater.eu/gypsum/Sep-2743/

https://visartmedia.pl/jawstone/39846.html

https://www.robertbatstra.nl/crusher/2021/0318/11553.html

https://minstalacje.pl/granite/Sep-mtw-mill-trapezium-cost-australia-4569/

https://zooforum.pl/Sreen/complex_pendulum_crusher_assembly_drawing_2197.html

https://i-podroze.pl/Feb-13_24757.html

https://www.dansite21.fr/data11/2020-12-2309/

https://www.ravelslow.pl/Miningproductionline/bPz9V1_38671/

https://www.lowkeywebdesign.nl/jawcrusher/14942-2020.html

https://www.collectif-jacquerie.fr/type/21_81/2653.html

https://dietabudwigowa.pl/data11/6K4el2/2020-06-14.html

https://www.elanguage.pl/02/8394/of-mtw-mills/

https://www.bockelmann-coaching.de/mill/17690.html

https://pflanzplanerin.ch/f/2020-09-25-Fri-Libya-Gypsum-Trapezium-Mill-%C3%8F-2020/5834/

https://rzedszkole44.pl/sand/20_Jul_1977/

https://kormoran-kolonie.pl/crusher/2020_Oct_Sat_1710/

https://kerkingenk.be/crusher/16540.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.uwiolilodz.pl/93/jGuyw0/YY.html

https://galeriedusauvage.ch/jaw/2020-11-26-Thu-mtw-trapezium-mill-price-2020/5258/

https://www.custombikemotorcycles.pl/agg/Jul-4968/

https://www.dzunglertenek.cz/12331/furnace/.html

https://pojistenadomacnost.cz/2018+Feb+21/X4cEr.html

https://www.wiadomosciasp.pl/hammer/12945.html

https://www.senterre-e.be/Feb/25-18865.html

https://www.nobodyhome.nl/basic_rockcrushing_theory_13700.html

https://kreatywnydzieciak.pl/kenya/677/

https://www.sprozyca.pl/coal/2020-10-316-how-is-a-MTW-grinding-mill-cost.html

https://wodzislawnoclegi.pl/ballmill/10393/1492470280.html

https://www.fotobobas.pl/20135/fine.html

https://dobryfotobank.pl/crusher/4378.html

https://www.radiobremen-werbung.de/malaysia/grinding-mill/d2s6mg.html

https://www.riverband.be/18684/2018-Jul/Vg4Gy1




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Schauberger Viktor on April 02, 2021, 11:57:21 AM
Please have a look to that ! It shows how the Antigravitation works :
https://t.me/gravitonisparticel
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on April 02, 2021, 12:13:10 PM
Please have a look to that ! It shows how the Antigravitation works :
https://t.me/gravitonisparticel (https://t.me/gravitonisparticel)


============================

This is an advertisement for "Telegram".
Please stop posting this in multiple threads

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Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 05, 2021, 08:17:18 PM

Version of the electric drive of the two-pendulum mechanism of the water pump drive

https://grabcad.com/library/version-of-the-electric-drive-of-the-two-pendulum-mechanism-of-the-water-pump-drive-1
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 09, 2021, 11:37:25 AM
company:

https://www.bockelmann-coaching.de/mill/17690.html

https://minstalacje.pl/granite/Sep-mtw-mill-trapezium-cost-australia-4569/

https://kreatywnydzieciak.pl/kenya/677/

https://www.senterre-e.be/Feb/25-18865.html

https://www.ag-susa.cz/powder-grinding-mill/hjlbvvne.html

https://slabyrint.cz/ObCkIfsj/158_trapezium+grinding+mill+price-ObCkIfsj.html

https://www.internationales-zaubertheater.eu/gypsum/Sep-2743/

https://kerkingenk.be/crusher/16540.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.eat-fine.de/15418/16LtMv1/mtw_european_trapezium_grinding_mill_works.html

https://www.ravelslow.pl/Miningproductionline/bPz9V1_38671/

https://www.aplikacjebiznesowe.net.pl/line/201/t36pcnd63c1t.html

https://ronmeijeren.nl/Dec/16-270.html

https://www.elanguage.pl/02/8394/of-mtw-mills/

https://rzeczywdomu.pl/crusher/3217.html

https://antrening.pl/9039/sitemap.xml

https://pojistenadomacnost.cz/2018+Feb+21/X4cEr.html

https://budowakominow.pl/granite/5427_Feb/

https://restaurant-theleeds.fr/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9-raymondgrinding/14605.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 16, 2021, 11:33:31 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.alpakas-von-der-hoeh.de/milling-machine/5gyi2az7/trapezium.html

https://plstyle.pl/milling-machine/tcd9lypd/mtw.html

https://kruszywamartrans.pl/bentonite/5237/Tue-95/

https://virtualcafe.pl/roller/2020_Nov_12_4560/

https://www.betonff.pl/8572/11_1574266296.html

https://www.laasy.cz/widely/18EjHM2-26155/

https://kubex.info.pl/price+of+trapezium+grinding+mills/13033.html

https://www.dartaka.lt/stone/146/Mar_88/

https://kamasolutions.pl/19756/indonesia/1519020122.html

https://kamasolutions.pl/19756/indonesia/1519020122.html

https://www.vbar.ch/14510/Uv4Iw2.html

https://www.magnaalu.pl/8775/LfQiw1

https://ronmeijeren.nl/Dec/16-270.html

https://antrening.pl/9039/sitemap.xml

https://gamarytmika.pl/2014/03/23/10657/

https://koko-design.pl/2018_Feb_01-12730.html

https://jugendblock.de/aizcho6q/price-of-trapezium-grinding-mills.html

https://www.usui.com.pl/2018_09_24+18045.html

https://pittigdesign.nl/grinding-equipment/5190.html

https://www.senterre-e.be/Feb/25-18865.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 18, 2021, 10:46:04 PM
New publication by Veljko Milkovic!

ENERGY OF OSCILLATIONS: from an Idea to the Realization
[collection of papers]

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_Energija_oscilacija_Energy_of_Oscillations.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on April 20, 2021, 02:18:43 PM
Thanks for the interesting manuscript.
I thought I came up with this. Use a flywheel instead of a large lever.
And, it turns out he already had it ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: iacob alex on April 20, 2021, 09:58:00 PM
 Hi Merg !
A useful initiative to add Prof.Milkovic's latest written document...it's suitable , regarding the topic of our forum. I appreciate him so much in his manner to "rediscover" the roots of the old ("natural"...!? ) mechanics...let's say with the shadoof .
 Al_ex
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 23, 2021, 11:35:35 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://antrening.pl/9039/sitemap.xml

https://buchner-express.nl/1059/17/

https://www.navafish.online/04-13+scm-super.html

https://icfcs-2020.com/11790-03_trapezium-gold-ore-grinding-mill-for-sale-XOhsfYiF.html

https://www.riverband.be/18684/2018-Jul/Vg4Gy1

https://kopernik.waw.pl/mtw_powder_making_machineri-8589.html

https://svtv.nl/crusher/5191.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.madeira-diving.de/screen/615-Jan.html

https://tus.com.pl/1538947832_shibang-trepezium-mill.html

https://www.santafelicitafirenze.it/list5/1920-812885480526.html

https://www.internationales-zaubertheater.eu/gypsum/Sep-2743/

https://www.lorenzo-dossantos.ch/mine/2029.html

https://kalismahotel.store/2020-Aug-libya-gypsum-trapezium-mill-supplier-Fri

https://www.bockelmann-coaching.de/mill/17690.html

https://www.horseparadise.nl/standard/23296/2020-04-15

https://www.elanguage.pl/02/8394/of-mtw-mills/

https://www.nca2019.be/month/19521/top-quality-hot-sale-copper-ore-ball-mill.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/

https://gamarytmika.pl/2014/03/23/10657/

https://www.makelaarlemarche.nl/2019_Jan_15-15741.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 30, 2021, 11:37:41 AM

New list of companies that use two stage mechanical oscillator of Veljko Milkovic:

https://www.aircraftengine.cz/Dugny/2020-11-24-Tue-simple-pendulum-crusher-2020/4110/

https://www.nanometrix.pl/17653/14-27.html

https://icfcs-2020.com/11790-03_trapezium-gold-ore-grinding-mill-for-sale-XOhsfYiF.html

https://ubezpieczeniaandrychow.pl/bahrain/grinding-mill/j1n0hs.html

https://www.ankaratajczak.pl/data2/2021-03-23-trapezium-mill-parts-material-1545/

https://www.chrueter-chruez.ch/31374/2017-03-16/hV5230

https://uabnodama.lt/mobile/2021/2021-Apr-23/
https://www.betonff.pl/8572/11_1574266296.html

https://lafetedesgeantsdebaulers.be/2019-Oct-04/2019-12_mtw-series-trapezium-mill-copper-ore.html

https://www.alpakas-von-der-hoeh.de/milling-machine/5gyi2az7/trapezium.html

https://m.chinese.alibaba.com/p-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic-62177499193.html

https://podhalanskialarmsmogowy.pl/724/MEsTd0_04/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pbStBzZ1RhcJ:https://www.kath-fr-panorama.ch/16309/Jun_1530072408.html+&cd=26&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://localrepair.be/2018_05_25/18186.html

https://specannopol.pl/aggregate/Dec_02_5251/

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/

https://gamarytmika.pl/2014/03/23/10657/

https://terapeuta-psychodynamiczny.pl/data16/tE446/2019.html

https://modernizacjasieci.pl/crushing/2020-Mar-31/2426.html

http://eventiinlive.it/Crusher/2020/0911/2331.html

https://www.cantatcl.cz/30292/tMjNn.html

https://www.uni-stolmeble.pl/6448/32ny9y2/Oct.html

https://kubex.info.pl/mtw+trapezium+mill+price/29474.html

https://www.zabnerez.cz/29357/1598278135.html

https://www.nlbaby.nl/batching/how-mtw-european-trapezium.html

https://www.grainofwood.nl/921/27/

https://cfmyhotel.store/2017-01-06+11445.html

https://www.stavex-stavby.cz/mill/4355/2021-1617697862/

https://www.anawak-spiel.de/grinding-mill/13599.html
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 05, 2021, 04:15:02 PM
The scientific papers and dissertation by Prof. Yu Jia, Ph.D. from England, mentioning Veljko Milkovic and his two-stage oscillator technology https://yjia.weebly.com/about-me.html

A Parametrically Exited Vibration Energy Harvester

https://publications.aston.ac.uk/id/eprint/40828/1/PEVEH_JIMSS.pdf
 
Parametric resonance for vibration energy harvesting with design techniques to passively reduce the initiation treshold amplitude
https://publications.aston.ac.uk/id/eprint/40825/1/Jia_2013_Design_Approach.pdf
 
His “Doctor of Philosophy in Engineering” dissertation from 2014 at the University of Cambridge, UK

The Convergence of Parametric Resonance and Vibration Energy Harvesting
https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1810/306848/PhD_thesis.pdf 
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/326250528.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 07, 2021, 11:33:52 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.
http://www.ilgiardinodeifolletti.it/9381/55LfXP1.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6J2bkkrGYYYJ:https://www.evspolska.pl/01-Sun/06622c5d.html+&cd=25&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs


https://www.anawak-spiel.de/grinding-mill/13599.html

https://www.zabnerez.cz/29357/1598278135.html

https://ihr-mobiler-bueroservice.de/hammer-crusher/zbu54uew/double.html

https://www.cantatcl.cz/30292/tMjNn.html

https://gezinsbondbredene.site/Mar/30_hammer-crusher-na-nagtatrabaho-priciple.html

https://www.olinkowo.com.pl/Jan/12-32587.html

https://bhartiagroup.com/Aug/30-25763.html

https://thaituanpoznan.pl/cone/6669.html

https://www.betriebundgewerkschaft-nrw.de/milling-machine/rvs8uazu/who.html

https://www.riverband.be/18684/2018-Jul/Vg4Gy1

https://www.sokirtu.lt/ghana/Mar_5584/


https://www.ftstavby.cz/100290-Jan/OVZAF1

https://www.uni-stolmeble.pl/6448/32ny9y2/Oct.html

https://docwood.be/1571735677/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9-raymondgrinding.html

https://uslugiszklarskiewagrowiec.pl/crusher/2996/21_Mar_14/

https://www.1000kleinigkeiten.de/opportunity/t8xi3o_29475.html

https://houzi.in/mtw-ball-mill/cj9mt7n5.html

https://personalarbeit-kretschmann.de/mining/13156.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 07, 2021, 10:43:30 PM
New scientific papers

Fabrication of Pendulum Machine for Generation of Electricity through Oscillation Motion
https://www.irjet.net/archives/V7/i4/IRJET-V7I4384.pdf

Experimental Investigation of Energy Production by Using Pendulum

https://irejournals.com/formatedpaper/1701561.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on May 08, 2021, 10:39:05 AM
I don't understand anything ... What, is it really possible to do self-running !?  :o
Then, on my part, I wanted to propose an effective converter of small oscillations into electrical energy.
This is a finished factory stepper motor. ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 13, 2021, 10:42:36 AM


Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://bewa.waw.pl/pendulum/machines/8049.html

http://www.wverduijnbv.nl/basalt/2020-2752/

https://rzeczywdomu.pl/crusher/3217.html

https://www.solideo-skolam.cz/11922/I0ByT0

https://apps-planet.de/price-grind-mill/4j8gb675.html

https://www.kovolisplus.cz/39209/2021-03-21.html

https://www.shantidance.cz/Zimbabwe/2020_Nov_8020.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.wydruki-firmowe.pl/LO0tH3-2s/

https://www.auto-cooper.nl/milling-machine/azugo2v4/scm.html

https://cfmyhotel.store/2017-01-06+11445.html

https://www.anawak-spiel.de/grinding-mill/13599.html

https://www.plastovevchodovedvere.cz/grinding-mill/18454.html

https://www.farnost-stritez.cz/roll/Jul_1544/

https://www.grainofwood.nl/2114/13/

https://www.riverband.be/18684/2018-Jul/Vg4Gy1

https://wynajem-jachtu.pl/z5js5o/3644.html

https://www.rehabilitace-maratice.cz/data10/3421-Jul-2020/

https://www.senterre-e.be/Feb/25-18865.html

https://www.internationales-zaubertheater.eu/gypsum/Sep-2743/

https://uslugiszklarskiewagrowiec.pl/crusher/2996/21_Mar_14/

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 17, 2021, 01:38:18 PM
New videos:

What is perpetuum mobile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyNRDwb6Bj4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyNRDwb6Bj4)

Deviations in classical physics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcuZZFiQVTw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcuZZFiQVTw)

The only realized perpetuum mobile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGJ95Yn6aw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGJ95Yn6aw)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on May 17, 2021, 03:39:01 PM
I read this entire topic.

Interesting stuff.

My observations..

https://overunity.com/18454/archimedes-moms-inovation/msg544601/#msg544601
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 20, 2021, 11:19:47 AM


Company:

https://www.bajusie.pl/singapour/2067/Jan_Fri_21/

https://www.gg-franchise.cz/scale/2021_05/263/

https://medicalremedies.in/grinding-equipment/10947/grinding.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.bockelmann-coaching.de/mill/17690.html

https://cfmyhotel.store/2017-01-06+11445.html

https://www.cantatcl.cz/30292/tMjNn.html

https://www.kovolisplus.cz/36002/2021-03-01.html

https://www.direct-tech.pl/vibrating/4842/Apr_1619748409/

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/wet-grid-ball-mill/

https://wjkp.pl/ball/Mar_209/

https://www.gekoshop.pl/powder-grinding-mill/economic/5kh9s.html

https://www.senterre-e.be/Feb/25-18865.html

https://erne.be/L1GzE/2020-08-22/18141/

https://www.cantatcl.cz/30292/tMjNn.html

https://www.solideo-skolam.cz/11922/I0ByT0

https://www.kovolisplus.cz/36002/2021-03-01.html

https://www.direct-tech.pl/vibrating/4842/Apr_1619748409/

https://wjkp.pl/ball/Mar_209/

https://www.gekoshop.pl/powder-grinding-mill/economic/5kh9s.html

https://www.senterre-e.be/Feb/25-18865.html

https://www.uni-stolmeble.pl/6448/32ny9y2/Oct.html

https://firma-rembud.pl/2019-09-zenith-crusher-mtw-138-Thu-4896
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on May 20, 2021, 01:50:46 PM
Latest info 2019 @


http://www.vemirc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/2-550-155982040271-76.pdf

Maximum efficiency of  oscillator utilized for pumping the water corresponds to 92.07%.
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
This is only an animation in this video below.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGJ95Yn6aw

It will not function perpetually in the real world.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 23, 2021, 06:46:07 PM

a new improved version of the two-stage mechanical oscillator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_dvNdcUR44
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 24, 2021, 12:21:27 PM
a new improved version of the two-stage mechanical oscillator
Improved two-stage mechanical oscillator, ie faster model whose effect is higher by 70 percent. It is much more efficient without ball bearings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_dvNdcUR44
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 28, 2021, 10:53:51 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.




https://vbc2019.de/MPxEPrUo/22_new-tybig-input-pendulum-mill-with-best-price.html

https://www.bajusie.pl/singapour/2067/Jan_Fri_21/

https://www.bajusie.pl/singapour/2067/Jan_Fri_21/

https://darktrans.pl/2017_Mar_15-200.html

https://www.coworking-torun.pl/10301/pm-pendulum-mill-loch.html

https://timestop.pl/30226/jaw_crusher.html

https://www.piekarniapeterek.pl/tcmming/13606.html

https://www.strazmiejskaswidnik.pl/2017/06/11/ze-straznikiem-na-rowerze/

https://www.adwokatwyrwal.pl/used/89/

https://www.betonff.pl/8572/11_1574266296.html

https://www.alpakas-von-der-hoeh.de/milling-machine/5gyi2az7/trapezium.html

https://virtualcafe.pl/mtm160/2020_Sep_21_4654/

https://www.rimstav.cz/Cone/1113-Dec.html

https://www.glts-swidniczanka.pl/data1/2020-11-2001/

https://ihr-mobiler-bueroservice.de/hammer-crusher/zbu54uew/double.html

https://thaituanpoznan.pl/cone/6669.html

https://www.bajusie.pl/singapour/2067/Jan_Fri_21/

https://www.autoverkopen-particulier.nl/mtw/2020_31_9657.html

https://gastro-chef.pl/16494/jaw_12.html

https://localrepair.be/2018_05_25/18186.html

https://restaurant-theleeds.fr/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9-raymondgrinding/14605.html

https://posmaker.pl/Apr/9182.html

https://www.edith-rinckes.nl/grind-mill/cimmhg5y/shape.html

https://bookacademy.nl/2169/mtw-trapezium-grinding-mill-workers-mhada-application-list.html

https://www.rozpoctymartinek.cz/2018-10-04+19562.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 04, 2021, 10:58:13 AM
new company

https://www.alpakas-von-der-hoeh.de/milling-machine/5gyi2az7/trapezium.html

https://www.betonff.pl/8572/11_1574266296.html

https://www.viet-long.ch/data3/1/98/Sun.html

https://www.musicaenlavilla.es/cheap-machines/Sep_Sunday_12659/

https://www.taparado.pl/PE/2021-02-27-Sat/3971/

https://onlinevideoacademy.cz/12111/ozuVI0/trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://lomfeld.cz/plant/2038.html

https://ihr-mobiler-bueroservice.de/hammer-crusher/zbu54uew/double.html

https://www.tmachnik.pl/06_648d72cd.html
https://www.timespazen.pl/impactcrusher/HMioD1.html

https://umbrela.cz/21552/7vnsf

https://www.scaffold.cz/export4-80285/01/

https://shanjiefactory.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-815484524-2/Grinding_Mill.html?filterSimilar=true&filter=null

https://www.instalacja-grzewcza.pl/mining/30_Apr/3165/

https://restaurant-theleeds.fr/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9-raymondgrinding/14605.html

https://avsbouwdenhaag.nl/india/2020_Aug_17432.html

https://www.sylwekpinczuk.pl/coal/Mar-4116/

https://www.fuh-ates.pl/May_23/597.html

https://www.thailandurlaubhotel.de/Jan/grinding-mill/r2684k.html

https://super-lider.pl/2018-Jan-30/3340.html

https://boerenvoedsel.site/May_30/european-mill-mill.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 11, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before. Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry. The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://kingpak.com.pl/Feb/01-2280.html

https://www.szkola-trzemietowo.pl/17611/CrROj

https://kmdpp.cz/hot-products/scm/7rjs9dg.html

https://www.bistropuik.nl/2016-03-28_barite-grinding-mill-machine.html

https://apartamentypodmagura.pl/crusher/2331/133.html

https://beachascona.ch/news/grind-mill/4u8t6uy6.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/wet-grid-ball-mill/

https://cajimani.cz/4982/Thecost-3N6K62

https://restaurant-agra-laval.fr/Sep/04-37454.html

https://m.chinese.alibaba.com/p-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic-62177499193.html

https://www.musicaenlavilla.es/cheap-machines/Sep_Sunday_12659/

https://www.klarakubelkova.cz/dolomite/Aug-211/

https://www.acidacid.ch/kenya/Jul_54/

https://www.taterny.pl/vertical/01_36955/

https://www.basicozgoda.pl/257/Sep_1601017776/

https://www.prominetech.com/ball-mill/

https://www.rossodisera.cz/5064/1467821253-INaZt0.html

https://krasnoludekmis.pl/41703/XNzNI.html


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 18, 2021, 10:44:52 AM
https://shanjiefactory.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-815484524-2/Grinding_Mill.html?filterSimilar=true&filter=null

https://www.instalacja-grzewcza.pl/mining/30_Apr/3165/

https://restaurant-theleeds.fr/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9-raymondgrinding/14605.html

https://avsbouwdenhaag.nl/india/2020_Aug_17432.html

https://www.sylwekpinczuk.pl/coal/Mar-4116/

https://www.fuh-ates.pl/May_23/597.html

https://www.thailandurlaubhotel.de/Jan/grinding-mill/r2684k.html

https://super-lider.pl/2018-Jan-30/3340.html

https://boerenvoedsel.site/May_30/european-mill-mill.html

https://www.alpakas-von-der-hoeh.de/milling-machine/5gyi2az7/trapezium.html

https://www.betonff.pl/8572/11_1574266296.html

https://www.viet-long.ch/data3/1/98/Sun.html

https://www.musicaenlavilla.es/cheap-machines/Sep_Sunday_12659/

https://www.taparado.pl/PE/2021-02-27-Sat/3971/

https://onlinevideoacademy.cz/12111/ozuVI0/trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://lomfeld.cz/plant/2038.html

https://ihr-mobiler-bueroservice.de/hammer-crusher/zbu54uew/double.html

https://www.tmachnik.pl/06_648d72cd.html
https://www.timespazen.pl/impactcrusher/HMioD1.html

https://umbrela.cz/21552/7vnsf

https://www.scaffold.cz/export4-80285/01/

https://kingpak.com.pl/Feb/01-2280.html

https://www.szkola-trzemietowo.pl/17611/CrROj

https://kmdpp.cz/hot-products/scm/7rjs9dg.html

https://www.bistropuik.nl/2016-03-28_barite-grinding-mill-machine.html

https://apartamentypodmagura.pl/crusher/2331/133.html

https://beachascona.ch/news/grind-mill/4u8t6uy6.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/wet-grid-ball-mill/

https://cajimani.cz/4982/Thecost-3N6K62

https://restaurant-agra-laval.fr/Sep/04-37454.html

https://www.musicaenlavilla.es/cheap-machines/Sep_Sunday_12659/

https://www.klarakubelkova.cz/dolomite/Aug-211/

https://www.acidacid.ch/kenya/Jul_54/

https://www.taterny.pl/vertical/01_36955/

https://www.basicozgoda.pl/257/Sep_1601017776/

https://www.prominetech.com/ball-mill/

https://www.rossodisera.cz/5064/1467821253-INaZt0.html

https://krasnoludekmis.pl/41703/XNzNI.html

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 18, 2021, 06:01:29 PM
https://oamfinance.ch/egypt/Nov_5506_11/

https://www.sonnenblume-mandelsloh.de/2591/0YAL50/How_TON_Grinding_Mill_Works_.html

https://m.toongabbiechildcare.com.au/2020-Sep-22/pendulum-machine-mining-machinery.html#nogo

https://www.aluminium-kisten.nl/cone-crusher/dm7ki7yb/used.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 25, 2021, 11:03:36 AM
New company

https://www.lionshouse.pl/price/2409/1609441931

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https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://www.ukbhub.in/2013/jan_29873.html

https://nina-sosinska.pl/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/MycZXVQ2rhiN.html

https://motoszansa.pl/dolomite/Feb-17926.html

https://zsosielec.pl/10081/2021-02-15/20rvEj1/

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

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https://www.mozaiekcirkel.nl/small/grinding-mill_1117.html

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https://www.ogniskanadziei.pl/calcite/1573/2021_May_10/

https://vbc2019.de/MPxEPrUo/22_new-tybig-input-pendulum-mill-with-best-price.html

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https://tulipanovo.pl/23169/Feb/2016.html

https://www.bhpboleslawiec.pl/mining/Jan_5713/

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https://zrbkrok.pl/market1/1970_71141/

https://www.fewo-sucasa.de/2021-5-22/18165.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/wet-grid-ball-mill/

https://www.mogeo.pl/15350/pressure-trapezium-grinding-mill.html

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https://marcelihnacak.cz/2020-12/1609427667_e6+hot+selling+stone+two+stage+crusher+price+NfGUWceN.html

https://restaurant-agra-laval.fr/Sep/04-37454.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 02, 2021, 10:22:30 AM

new company

https://www.csch-ceskakamenice.cz/2891.html

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https://www.alpakas-von-der-hoeh.de/milling-machine/5gyi2az7/trapezium.html

https://execo.com.pl/Oct/27-7161.html

https://www.rottweiler-bulldog-anglais.be/6deed469

https://sectorlink.be/?from=https://vrijwilligersparaat.be/4521_06_08.html

https://adrianodesign.pl/Clinker/Feb_3882/

https://www.oslavyasvatby.cz/17105/fdmPJ
 https://www.residenzailsorriso.it/cement-7010/nUoB00.html

https://www.carlandpremium.pl/patch/Mar_1887_average-particle-size-calcium-carbonate-/

https://www.ogniskanadziei.pl/superfine/3032/2021_May_10/

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https://www.weingutweidmann.ch/raymond/2479-Aug.html


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https://www.poucecoupe-paysagiste.ch/wash/2021-05-3971/

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https://www.scaffold.cz/export3-96463/01/

https://bergenambacht.nl/17755/scm-ultrafine-mill-for-sale.html

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https://www.rackreyd.cz/44872/jG2UD0.html

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https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://www.ukbhub.in/2013/jan_29873.html

https://nina-sosinska.pl/pendulum-magnet-for-crusher/MycZXVQ2rhiN.html

https://motoszansa.pl/dolomite/Feb-17926.html

https://zsosielec.pl/10081/2021-02-15/20rvEj1/

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://www.hotel-radlovec.cz/famous/Dec/333/1608193553.html

https://www.timespazen.pl/impactcrusher/HMioD1.html

https://deh-energie.nl/process/Apr-4197.html

https://www.luxurycakes.cz/station/Nov_21798/

https://www.mozaiekcirkel.nl/small/grinding-mill_1117.html

https://www.hospudkabilyberanek.cz/roll/Mar/3443/1614761113.html

https://www.ogniskanadziei.pl/calcite/1573/2021_May_10/

https://vbc2019.de/MPxEPrUo/22_new-tybig-input-pendulum-mill-with-best-price.html

https://www.parkhady.cz/bulgaria/Dec_3634_8/

https://tulipanovo.pl/23169/Feb/2016.html

https://www.bhpboleslawiec.pl/mining/Jan_5713/

https://www.ftstavby.cz/100290-Jan/OVZAF1

https://kingpak.com.pl/Feb/01-2280.html

https://zrbkrok.pl/market1/1970_71141/

https://www.fewo-sucasa.de/2021-5-22/18165.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/wet-grid-ball-mill/

https://www.mogeo.pl/15350/pressure-trapezium-grinding-mill.html

https://www.bpz.edu.pl/equipment/Mar_95.html

https://www.thaituanpoznan.pl/grinding/128.html

https://www.zunit.com.pl/kenya/2021_Mar_11_543/

https://www.hurtownia-bielizny.com.pl/2017/12/12_9395.html

https://schlachtungsanlage.ch/Jan/24-2423.html

https://www.farnost-stritez.cz/data2/Sep_2314/

https://masmet.com.pl/2017-09-04+651.html

https://planetgrill-montdemarsan.fr/XHYya/2021_how-zenith-grinding-mill-works/

https://fotolama.pl/bricks/1466/WtU8w/

https://www.boumanverkoopwagens.nl/2002-05-22/3989.html

https://srodkowa20.pl/uzytkownik/2021-04-20-Tue2021/5438/

https://abcgamma.pl/May/27-7151.html

https://archeologie-spa.nl/roller/8574.html

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://dietistehannaaerts.be/Aug/12_10230.html

https://onlinevideoacademy.cz/12111/ozuVI0/trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://panpizza.com.pl/2021-21-27/27709.html

https://marcelihnacak.cz/2020-12/1609427667_e6+hot+selling+stone+two+stage+crusher+price+NfGUWceN.html

https://restaurant-agra-laval.fr/Sep/04-37454.html




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 09, 2021, 11:25:49 AM
new company

https://www.recambiocalidad.es/powder-grinding-equipment/26845.html

https://www.byc-studentem-psychologii.pl/machine/May-DGlrp/

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://pizzapacman.pl/malaysia/4509/2021/1619748409/

https://www.szsamsteplice.cz/magnetite/Apr/818.html

https://www.boumanverkoopwagens.nl/2002-01-30/4672.html

https://www.collegecloschassaing.fr/Aug/14-10523.html

https://www.hospudkabilyberanek.cz/impact/Apr/1972/1618395701.html

https://www.o3-o.pl/39940/

https://www.sylwekpinczuk.pl/coal/Mar-4116/

https://www.parkhady.cz/bulgaria/Dec_3634_8/

https://dachyhajto.pl/13769/26/

https://www.f2lt.lt/coal/5002/

https://galwanizacjawagrowiec.pl/data3/Apr_993.html

https://dobreserca.com.pl/2021-21-03/19.html

https://onlinevideoacademy.cz/12111/ozuVI0/trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.hotelrestaurantbarlecentralhotel.fr/grind/08-02/16772.html

https://www.arbassicurazioni.com/zimbabwe/grinding-mill/0dmbr0.html

https://www.boumanverkoopwagens.nl/2002-01-30/4672.html

https://apartamentypodmagura.pl/crusher/1775/133.html

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 09, 2021, 02:14:45 PM
Project overview:
Several Approaches for Zero point energy - Converters
 Prof. Dr. rer. nat. Claus W. Turtur Wolfenbüttel, 15. February 2021
Ostfalia University of Applied Sciences, Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel
Salzdahlumer Straße 46 – 48 38302 Wolfenbüttel Germany

https://www.ostfalia.de/cms/de/pws/turtur/.content/documents/Teil_04-Project-overview-free-energy-ENGLISCH.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 14, 2021, 01:39:48 PM
The greats of science and technology
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 16, 2021, 10:43:53 AM

New company

https://www.fullyshaped.nl/machine/lhMQV0_1591106792.html

https://wykutfajewo.pl/21208/2019-04-15.html

https://www.zapakowany.pl/parts/Apr-841/

https://partycompleet.nl/18333/ore/

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.hadjer66.fr/19949/X5aff/1512349965.html

https://strechy-vales.cz/quartz/2386-Jan-4.html

https://www.novalis-advies.nl/high/2496-Jul/

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://www.restauracja-marysienka.pl/Sep_21030/2020/

https://www.sylwekpinczuk.pl/coal/Mar-4116/

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.boumanverkoopwagens.nl/2002-01-30/4672.html

https://pojezdova-kolecka-kladky.cz/43my5A2+mtw-100-grind-mill--machineary+22402.html

https://dimensional.com.pl/2021-21-26/2929.html

https://www.gg-franchise.cz/scale/2021_05/263/

https://www.mogeo.pl/15350/pressure-trapezium-grinding-mill.html

https://deh-energie.nl/process/Apr-4197.html

https://m.maharadscha-regensburg.de/nXZnPwUg/276_mining-swing-machine-in-ore-processing-pendulum-machine-factory-nXZnPwUg.html

https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

https://www.zapakowany.pl/parts/Apr-841/

https://restaurant-theleeds.fr/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9-raymondgrinding/14605.html

https://partycompleet.nl/18333/ore/

https://autokary-skowronski.pl/design/Dec_154/

https://www.sklenarstvimazourek.cz/home/May-Mon/280/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 21, 2021, 10:06:34 AM
2stage vs spinet
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 23, 2021, 11:12:18 AM
New company


https://www.pradelna-maro.cz/18069/Jul_21/

https://www.fullyshaped.nl/machine/lhMQV0_1591106792.html

https://www.exekucninavrh.cz/brick/11785.html

https://www.penzion-aqua.cz/circular/May_203/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WPMIEvje7b8J:https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html+&cd=40&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs



https://www.hotel-macocha.cz/21336/58hQY0/Dec/07/

https://strechy-vales.cz/quartz/2386-Jan-4.html

https://www.sylwekpinczuk.pl/coal/Mar-4116/

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gih8kNyA-SYJ:https://butsuzodzu.tvbienne.it/Russian_Anti_Gravity_Machine.html+&cd=68&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://penzionbellis.cz/1716/5M8dY2/mtw_european_grinding_mill_.html

https://www.direct-tech.pl/vibrating/4842/Apr_1619748409/

https://www.thaituanpoznan.pl/grinding/128.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.reformhaus-schaer.de/milling-machine/6hdhxn97/cryo.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://twarzy.pl/grindin/fOskV0-Oct

https://herstal-athletisme.site/alimentando/3711/sbm-ultrafine-mills.html

https://carnavaldenivelles.site/2020/06/14-11234.html

https://www.chaletbellwald.nl/2002-01-13/6626.html

https://www.vitreaokno.cz/2020/06/81819.html

https://apartamentypodmagura.pl/crusher/1775/133.html

https://prok-vastgoed.site/Jan/07_13523.html

https://www.prominetech.com/ball-mill/

https://www.kuchniabobasa.pl/BA6k02/st/20693

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q1JYEuKRPQYJ:https://www.nonstop-chwilowka.pl/03_94708d43.html+&cd=39&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 28, 2021, 06:55:47 PM
Veljko Milkovic's two-stage oscillator with flexible (elastic) pendulum surpasses all rotary devices and is the only free energy machines that has been practically used worldwide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwlKWcO79J0
https://www.facebook.com/milkovicv

There is a 1,000$ cash award for a counter-argument that the pendulum oscillations are more efficient than any rotations.

There are already the useful machines, bearing the name of Veljko Milkovic, in offer on Alibaba.com, a global retail e-platform.
https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&SearchText=veljko+milkovic

There is also a new fast pendulum model in the current development demonstrating much better performances.

The sustainable future is bright!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 30, 2021, 10:55:22 AM

https://www.kovolisplus.cz/39209/2021-03-21.html

https://damienyzerbyt.site/2018-11-25_sbm-grinding-mill-sa-thailand.html

https://restaurant-theleeds.fr/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9-raymondgrinding/14605.html

https://www.evaandries.be/Mine/504-Jan-3.html

https://www.pieselcraft.pl/11506/2020-08-09.html

https://jimirocket.pl/2021-21-09/28424.html

https://www.artiesthuubadriaens.nl/k1oi2r/grinding-mill.html


https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://damienyzerbyt.site/2018-11-25_sbm-grinding-mill-sa-thailand.html

https://projektzbrodnia.pl/14316/02/2013.html

https://www.tiskarna-kmpress.cz/fLLNU0+5594.html

https://www.ftstavby.cz/100290-Jan/OVZAF1

https://www.biologiaczlowieka.pl/ore/2020-12-28-Mon/4321/


https://www.impost.com.pl/May/31-33728.html

https://ecoair.com.pl/Oct/07-35299.html

https://www.mogeo.pl/15350/pressure-trapezium-grinding-mill.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dP6ViStbXDsJ:https://www.bengillissen.nl/6b81f1c2+&cd=51&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://www.ubytovanivysovatka.cz/2018_10_26/19405.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fqvyf7V1br8J:https://www.madrywete.pl/03-Fri/f2373fa4.html+&cd=59&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs


Company-sajt link
https://companyveljkomilkovic.wordpress.com/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 01, 2021, 12:46:00 AM
The pendulum mathematics postulated in 1602 by Galileo,and regurgitated in the first half a dozen pages in this thread:Still hold firm and true.This device is used worldwide in water pumps, oil pumps, flywheel systems,None have reported any FE anomalies.


If you disagree: complete the loops and show one that runs itself.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 06, 2021, 10:53:39 AM
New company lins:

https://www.elektromi.pl/34326/03-02-2021.html

https://pozdrowienaturalnie.pl/quarry/2021-07-18_1402/

https://cavaliers-du-reve.fr/3685-04-19.html

https://www.irjet.net/archives/V7/i4/IRJET-V7I4384.pdf

https://www.lagrande.com.pl/pakistan/2020_12_Wed_5268/

https://www.spaun.cz/Apr/21-5628.html

https://manufacture-mrn.pl/Jan_12+13416.html

https://fabryka-eventow.pl/2021-Jan-grinding-zimbabwe-price-24759

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html+

https://pezzipizza.pl/03-19+22966.html

https://www.makerspoint.cz/ball/5191.html

https://lb-promotion.cz/Jun/22_9511.html

https://udanuty.pl/Jul/20+1052.html

https://grandislandciv.org/mining/crushers_17061.html

https://fitness-centrum.pl/ghana/XLRol/2015-06-18T05:06:59+00:00.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.turnovprorodinu.cz/6798/

https://www.farmarskykosik.cz/7423-May/

https://forevercarroll.org/2019-10-05/Fri_17727.html

https://dentair.pl/2020-Mar-project-on-retrofit-for-hammer-crushers-21967

https://crmwellness.pl/Dec/09-16250.html

https://www.tmg-gniezno.pl/105256+DFR0z.html

https://www.sportowaja.pl/04-Sat/ba3cc93e.html
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 06, 2021, 07:23:03 PM
mtw european trapezium mill veljko milkovic:

 

After hammer crushers break large bulky materials to smaller ones, elevator works to send materials to material bin. Next, materials are sent to the grinding mill evenly and they would fall onto the dispersing plate firstly. When the grinding mill runs, dozens of grinding rollers start to rotate and roll. Under the action of centrifugal force, materials on the dispersing plate are then thrown to the rim and drop to the grinding chamber. In the circuit, materials would be squeezed and ground. After being ground several times, materials are blown into the powder selector by airflow. Under the action of the impeller of powder selector, materials which fail to meet fineness would be sent back to grinding chamber to get another grinding while qualified powders would be collected by cyclone powder collector and discharged from the bottom as finished products. Some remaining powders would be collected by impulse dust remover and they may stick to the surface of filler-bag. So, next, high-pressure airflow controlled by the impulse valve blows the filler-bag to make it swell and shake violently. This sudden shake can help kick off materials on the filler-bag and collect them as finished products. After filtering, the airflow would be discharged to the air. This system adopts an open circuit and runs under negative pressure.

 
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62177499193.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 06, 2021, 10:14:08 PM
A 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system,
                                    this is not.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on August 07, 2021, 12:11:45 AM
A 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system,
                                    this is not.
According to the Alibaba product link above, the device needs almost 300 hp. That is about 6 family saloon cars. Are we being asked to believe it is delivering 3600 hp of work? Maybe we need to find someone who has bought one of these machines and ask them to run some tests.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 08, 2021, 01:53:54 PM

Latest info in 2019 @


http://www.vemirc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/2-550-155982040271-76.pdf

Maximum efficiency of  oscillator utilized for pumping the water corresponds to 92.07%.
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
This is only an animation in this video below.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGJ95Yn6aw

It will not function perpetually in the real world.

                     see also

https://overunity.com/18454/archimedes-moms-inovation/msg544601/#msg544601

                floor
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 13, 2021, 10:51:26 AM
https://www.crimehurts.org/11707/cost-of-ball-milling-machine-in-nigeria-price.html

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://www.elpu.pl/13914/crusher.html

https://pezzipizza.pl/03-19+22966.html

https://immerfein-catering.de/sand/Mar/4820_Trapezium-Grinding-Mill-For-Sale-Price.html

https://www.industriepark-foerderturm.de/2019-04-18/grinding-mill/er6p93.html

https://www.restauracja-marysienka.pl/Sep_21030/2020/

https://www.tesarstvijirout.cz/Cone/2060-Dec.html

https://www.fajnababka.com.pl/equipment/5153.html

https://doland.com.pl/informator/Apr-Tue/3930/

https://www.dostawcadrewna.pl/gold/1626932715-3361/

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.thailandurlaubhotel.de/Jan/grinding-mill/r2684k.html

https://lb-promotion.cz/Jun/22_9511.html

https://subaru-auta.pl/crusher/6551.html
https://www.impost.com.pl/May/31-33728.html

https://ecoair.com.pl/Oct/07-35299.html

https://www.mogeo.pl/15350/pressure-trapezium-grinding-mill.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dP6ViStbXDsJ:https://www.bengillissen.nl/6b81f1c2+&cd=51&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JxZIgdbLxysJ:https://www.arthurgross-florin.ch/858-2020-Jul/+&cd=95&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://www.ubytovanivysovatka.cz/2018_10_26/19405.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fqvyf7V1br8J:https://www.madrywete.pl/03-Fri/f2373fa4.html+&cd=59&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 13, 2021, 10:59:48 AM

A 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system,
                                    this is not.

Latest info in 2019 @


http://www.vemirc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/2-550-155982040271-76.pdf

Maximum efficiency of  oscillator utilized for pumping the water corresponds to 92.07%.
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
This is only an animation in this video below.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGJ95Yn6aw

It will not function perpetually in the real world.

                     see also

https://overunity.com/18454/archimedes-moms-inovation/msg544601/#msg544601


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 13, 2021, 05:27:32 PM
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/TWO-STAGE-OSCILLATOR-MECHANISM-FOR-OPERATING-A-PUMP-Ramdeobaba-Marjanovic/e3520ec3b29e6491be46e03a476d92157237806f
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 13, 2021, 06:22:44 PM
According to the link just provided by kratkaforma in the previous post as

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/TWO-STAGE-OSCILLATOR-MECHANISM-FOR-OPERATING-A-PUMP-Ramdeobaba-Marjanovic/e3520ec3b29e6491be46e03a476d92157237806f

figures and tables
table 3

The transmission efficiency = 50.94%

           Very useful device.
                  I wish Mr Milkovic health and success.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 14, 2021, 10:17:22 AM
And if two pendulums swing synchronously, but in opposite directions instead of one?
From the point of view of the entire system, will it be the same?
Sorry for the bad picture.
first time.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 14, 2021, 02:01:13 PM
New paper from the Kathmandu University, Nepal


Study and design of pendulum assisted hand water pump
http://old.ku.edu.np/kuset/vol15_no2/khoteja_vol_15_No_2_2021.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 14, 2021, 03:09:12 PM
And if two pendulums swing synchronously, but in opposite directions instead of one?
From the point of view of the entire system, will it be the same?
Sorry for the bad picture.
first time.  :)

Good question

Modified post.

In the simplest scenario to analyze, where in...
1. Both pendulums are identical.
2. The pendulum actions are 180 deg. out from one another.
3. The input power applied to each of the pendulums is the same.
4. The timing of the input applied to each pendulum is the same.

Input power would double and output power would also double ?
There fore the input to output power ratio would remain the same ?

   PS
  I was too quick to answer...
  This would be essentially the same as using a heavier pendulum bob.
          and
  Change in the mechanical ratios within the device, (the lever length and/ or
  pendulum length and/or  pendulum mass and/or lever counter weight mass
  also changes the efficiency.

  Other desirable qualities of the device may include, non-jamming power
  transmission and ease of use / good ergonomics.

  In my (recent) opinion and my observations of what could entail an O.U. device,
  at least one element of a device's actions must approach an input value of
  zero energy.  Two or more non O.U. events cannot combine into an O.U. event ?
   




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 14, 2021, 03:31:14 PM
... ... ... ... redundant post

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 14, 2021, 04:45:56 PM
The difference is that in the version with two pendulums, it is possible to swing them by pushing one away from the other.
Without using a fixed support ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 14, 2021, 05:13:06 PM
Good question

Modified post.

In the simplest scenario to analyze, where in...
1. Both pendulums are identical.
2. The pendulum actions are 180 deg. out from one another.
3. The input power applied to each of the pendulums is the same.
4. The timing of the input applied to each pendulum is the same.

Input power would double and output power would also double ?
There fore the input to output power ratio would remain the same ?

   PS
  I was too quick to answer...
  This would be essentially the same as using a heavier pendulum bob.
          and
  Change in the mechanical ratios within the device, (the lever length and/ or
  pendulum length and/or  pendulum mass and/or lever counter weight mass
  also changes the efficiency.

  Other desirable qualities of the device may include, non-jamming power
  transmission and ease of use / good ergonomics.

  In my (recent) opinion and my observations of what could entail an O.U. device,
  at least one element of a device's actions must approach an input value of
  zero energy.  Two or more non O.U. events cannot combine into an O.U. event ?
 


                                       cw and ccw  coupling ?



https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=4464095A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19840807&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=4464095A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19840807&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)
With such arrangement as described above, the internal gear and the planetary gears can be rotated in opposite directions but at the same rotational speed, so that as compared with the conventional hydraulic turbine in which the internal gear is held stationary the rotational speed of the pinion shaft can be almost doubled. In contrast with the conventional turbine with a single bladed rotor which is rotatable only in one direction, turbine rotors which are rotated in the opposite directions are mounted alternately on the common shaft so that a helical flow of a fluid through them can be eliminated. Consequently highly efficient power conversion can be ensured.

when speed will become doubled = generator production maximized by ....%  ?

similar planetary gear arrangement :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=22&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20020411&CC=DE&NR=19954908A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=22&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20020411&CC=DE&NR=19954908A1&KC=A1)


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 14, 2021, 05:49:22 PM
@ kolbacict / LankaIV

Interesting variations..

The input energy source (electric cell) could be contained within either, the pendulum or
the lever.

That design would split the energy between each pendulum.
1/2 to each pendulum ?

Given that the total input energy is remaining the same as if using a single pendulum
of a mass equal to the two pendulums, the energy potential of the two pendulums
(downward) would be the same potential as a single pendulum which has a mass
equal to the two pendulums combined.

This all gets complex when one considers that the arc of the pendulum swing , can at points
in time, align with the arc of the lever's motion, there fore either increasing, or decreasing
(aligning with + or -) the arc of the pendulum. 

One can easily see why the tuning of  the physical elements as well as timing the motions
will effect the mechanical resonance / force cancellation / force combining and there fore
the efficiency of the energy transmission from pendulum to lever.

However, neither force neutralization nor force combining increases the total energy present
within the system.  They will however effect the efficiency of the transmission from the
pendulum to the lever.

The difference between this mechanical energy system and say, for example, a permanent
magnet system is that its energy (permanent magnet system) comes from inside the system.

Permanent magnets contain energy in and of their self, except that input (to reset positions)
and out put are mutually cancelling. No net energy =  no energy. And so they / their "energy"
are /  is considered as  "conservative".   Unless that is, one can rest magnet positions
with out expending energy equal or > than the "output" energy.

   PS
    If one could lift the pendulum without expending as much energy as when it falls
    then...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 14, 2021, 08:31:31 PM
Quote
If one could lift the pendulum without expending as much energy as when it falls
push the pendulums away from one another below when they have maximum speed (maximum kinetic energy).   The Oberth effect. ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 14, 2021, 08:59:34 PM
push the pendulums away from one another below when they have maximum speed (maximum kinetic energy).   The Oberth effect. ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect)


Explanation in terms of momentum and kinetic energy


A rocket works by transferring momentum to its propellant.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect#cite_note-3) At a fixed exhaust velocity, this will be a fixed amount of momentum per unit of propellant.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect#cite_note-4) For a given mass of rocket (including remaining propellant), this implies a fixed change in velocity per unit of propellant.


 Because kinetic energy equals mv2/2, this change in velocity imparts a greater increase in kinetic energy at a high velocity than it would at a low velocity. For example, considering a 2 kg rocket:


at 1 m/s, adding 1 m/s increases the kinetic energy from 1 J to 4 J, for a gain of 3 J;
at 10 m/s, starting with a kinetic energy of 100 J, the rocket ends with 121 J, for a net gain of 21 J.
This greater change in kinetic energy can then carry the rocket higher in the gravity well than if the propellant were burned at a lower speed.


For Your Gedanken-Experiment : 1m/s moving pendulum ? pendel length  ? pendel weight ?


An other " pendeling/balancing" principle :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_cradle
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 14, 2021, 09:08:54 PM
Well, that's just my guess ...It has not yet been tested by experience.
And we will not repel with rocket fuel, of course.
And for example with magnets.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 14, 2021, 09:21:12 PM
push the pendulums away from one another below when they have maximum speed (maximum kinetic energy).   The Oberth effect. ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect)

That IS lifting.  Lifting is both, against gravity and acceleration.
Against gravity alone is only balance, additional force magnitude causes acceleration.

Oberth effect,  Hmm.

Oberth effect is due to interception with an all ready moving planet. The additional speed
of the rocket comes from the speed of the planet's motion. Not from the rocket's fall
and subsequent escape from the gravity, those two cancel out.

It's something like swinging past a moving auto while on a skate board and gabbing the bumper.

One catches the bumper because one is moving, but also because one has an oblique
interception course. 

If not for the planet moving faster than the rocket, the rocket would not gain a net
speed increase.

       PS

Correction that would be a "sling shot maneuver " I was describing above.

Oberth effect. Could it apply to the pendulums ?
Wikipedia / LankaIV quote
 
"Rocket engines produce the same force regardless of their velocity. A rocket acting
on a fixed object, as in a static firing, does no useful work ON THE ROCKET.
The rocket's stored energy is entirely expended on accelerating its propellant in the
form of exhaust.

But when the rocket moves, its thrust acts through the distance it moves.
 
Force multiplied by distance is the definition of mechanical energy or work.

So the farther the rocket and payload move during the burn (i.e. the faster they move),
the greater the kinetic energy imparted to the rocket and its payload and the less to
its exhaust. "

This only applies to a reaction / thrust drive I think ?  Interesting.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2021, 02:46:14 AM
Very cool  kolbacict / Lanka...
Some days I'm slow on the uptake...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2021, 02:56:57 AM
May be if the applied force originates from within the pendulum bob.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 15, 2021, 09:28:06 AM
Well, jet propulsion is movement by throwing some mass backwards.
Using an energy source (such as rocket fuel). Rocket fuel doesn't suit us, of course.
I guess it doesn't matter what could push out the mass. Let it be magnetic (electromagnetic) forces. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2021, 09:43:12 AM
Yes.. what to eject ?

The ejected material / mass from a rocket remains ejected.  The ejected material / mass
from,  for example, from a solenoid ( the core) must  be returned to within the coil.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 15, 2021, 10:28:14 AM
And what is the second pendulum for us?  It himself goes into our hands.And in needed place.
This will be our discarded mass.  And it also wants to be pushed in the opposite direction. The benefit is twofold. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2021, 03:46:07 PM
I think perhaps it IS actually a benefit (as Lanka pointed out),
but the same benefit (not two fold ?) but still a benefit.
... ... ... ... ... ...
Both pendulum bobs are accelerated by reactive force.
Both accelerations are to the benefit of the device's functioning.
... ... ... ... ... ...
Thrust could be a continuous magnetic force, although diminishing with distance.

I am not exactly clear on what that design would entail. Perhaps with both a curved
coil and a curved ejected core (and / or core is attracted into coil)
... ... ... ... ... ...
The next question is, how much of a benefit is it at lower speeds.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 15, 2021, 04:07:10 PM
https://www.quantum-controls.co.uk/insights/faqs/what-is-cube-law/#:~:text=Cube%20Law%20is%20the%20relationship,can%20give%20significant%20energy%20savings (https://www.quantum-controls.co.uk/insights/faqs/what-is-cube-law/#:~:text=Cube%20Law%20is%20the%20relationship,can%20give%20significant%20energy%20savings).


 the relationship between a (centrifugal pump or fans) speed and its energy need is known as Cube Law


from rotative to linear !?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2021, 05:38:19 PM
https://www.quantum-controls.co.uk/insights/faqs/what-is-cube-law/#:~:text=Cube%20Law%20is%20the%20relationship,can%20give%20significant%20energy%20savings (https://www.quantum-controls.co.uk/insights/faqs/what-is-cube-law/#:~:text=Cube%20Law%20is%20the%20relationship,can%20give%20significant%20energy%20savings).


 the relationship between a (centrifugal pump or fans) speed and its energy need is known as Cube Law


from rotative to linear !?

Ok / will check that out at some point here in.

If question 1 is how "much of a benefit is it at lower speeds".

Question 2 must be, how long can we continue with these mental gymnastics
before some one interrupts  :'(

So then ...

If both rotor and stator of an electric motor are allowed to rotate
as output shafts how much does it increase the efficiency ?
                                    None?
Twice the speed half the force. Half the speed twice the force.
Same energy content, same energy consumption either way.
How does this apply to the pendulum bobs ?

The efficiency of a liquid driven turbine engine can be increased by means of
counter rotating blade sets. This is because energy transference from fluid to blade
can be improved (less waste). This is not because of simultaneous energy extraction
from both action and reaction, but rather, some characteristics of the liquid's flow.

Similar efficiency increases in gas turbines may be achieved through consecutive blade
sets, each tuned for efficiency in terms of the gas (to its density and velocity) as it is
arriving at the turbine blade set. Those characteristics / ratios of the gas were changed
due to having passed through the previous set of turbine blades. The next set is there
fore designed to maximize efficient energy transfer at the present gas speed and density.

The goal in terms of the rocket is high speed.  The goal here is to increase energy
content / efficiency.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 15, 2021, 06:10:05 PM
Twice the speed halve the force.Halve the speed twice the force. ???
         Cube law ! Xv3 up or inverse cube down  !

+ 100% speed = + 700% force    -50% speed = -87,5% force

Base 1 +1 = 2 and 2v3= 8             1-0,5 = 0,5      (0,5x0,5x0,5)= 0,125
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2021, 07:32:05 PM
@ LankaIV

Interesting stuff !
              Lanka link...  cube law
https://www.quantum-controls.co.uk/insights/faqs/what-is-cube-law/#:~:text=Cube%20Law%20is%20the%20relationship,can%20give%20significant%20energy%20savings

"Cube Law is the relationship between a centrifugal pump or fans speed and its energy need is known as Cube Law. This means that a small increase in speed requires a lot more power, but also means that a modest speed reduction can give significant energy savings. A pump or fan running at half speed consumes only one eighth of the power compared to one running at full speed."

Correct me if I am mistaken.
I think this has to do with wind resistance or friction and its electrical energy
consumption,  not acceleration ?

https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Classical_Mechanics/Classical_Mechanics_(Tatum)/07%3A_Projectiles/7.03%3A_Air_Resistance_Proportional_to_the_Square_of_the_Speed
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Additionally it requires 4 times the energy to accelerate a given mass to twice its speed.

It requires 1/2 joule to accelerate a 1 kg object to a velocity of 1m/s.
It requires 2 joules to accelerate a 1 kg object to a velocity of 2m/s.
It requires 4 times as much energy to accelerate a 1 Kg object to twice the velocity.
Twice the velocity requires 4 times more energy (the velocity increase squared).
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
A 1kg object moving at 2m/s has 4 times the kinetic energy of a 1 kg mass moving
at 1m/s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 15, 2021, 08:26:58 PM
Quote
If question 1 is how "much of a benefit is it at lower speeds".
I dont know. Does absolute speed matter?
p.s. If the original Milkovich double pendulum cannot be made self-powered, then I am thinking how to make it possible.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 15, 2021, 09:06:20 PM

from conventional https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/kinetic.php (https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/kinetic.php)


to
http://www.ijsrp.org/research_paper_feb2012/ijsrp-feb-2012-06.pdf (http://www.ijsrp.org/research_paper_feb2012/ijsrp-feb-2012-06.pdf)


There are many complicated calculations and equations involved in understanding and constructing wind turbine generators however the layman need not worry about most of these and should instead ensure they remember the following vital information:


 1) The power output of a wind generator is proportional to the area swept by the rotor - i.e. double the swept area and the power output will also double.


2) The power output of a wind generator is proportional to the cube of the wind speed.


 Kinetic Energy = 0.5 x Mass x Velocity2 , where the mass is measured in kg, the velocity in m/s, and the energy is given in joules.


Air has a known density (around 1.23 kg/m3 at sea level), so the mass of air hitting our wind turbine. (which sweeps a known area) each second is given by the following equation: Mass/sec (kg/s) = Velocity (m/s) x Area (m2 ) x Density (kg/m3 ).
Therefore, the power (i.e. energy per second) in the wind hitting a wind turbine with a certain swept area is given by simply inserting the mass per second calculation into the standard kinetic energy equation given above resulting in the following vital equation:
 Power = 0.5 x Swept Area x Air Density x Velocity3 , where Power is given in Watts (i.e. joules/second),
the Swept area in square metres, the Air density in kilograms per cubic metre, and the Velocity in metres per second.




or

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330534847_Theoretical_calculation_of_the_power_of_wind_turbine_or_tidal_turbine (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330534847_Theoretical_calculation_of_the_power_of_wind_turbine_or_tidal_turbine)


4.5 with "v2"  becomes total 4.6 "v3"  kinetik and potential energy sum effect




https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=2010283252A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20101111&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=2010283252A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20101111&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)


[0090] Generator power and efficiency with wind turbine drive is computed below, for a representative example of the present invention, at maximum shaft speed, mid-speed, and minimum usable speed, using a few simplifying approximations. Shaft speed, power, and the other variables in the computations herebelow are exemplary, and not intended as limiting the present invention in any way. This will help explain FIG. 1 and FIG. 2 configuration operation, distinctions and improvements over the prior art.


[0091] Let maximum speed equal 1000 revolutions per minute (rpm), mid-speed equal 500 rpm, and minimum speed equal 100 rpm. Also, let maximum stator current Imax=10 amperes, and nominal VDC=100 volts. Further, let Q1-Q4 power MOSFET ON resistance Rdson=0.01 ohm, inductor L1-L2 winding resistance RL=0.1 ohm. Also, stator winding resistance R5=0.15 ohm, stator voltage Vmax=100 volts at 1000 rpm, and fly-back (free-wheeling) diode D1-D8 forward drop Vf=1-volt at 10 amp. These parameters are consistent with a test prototype, according to the present invention, developed to generate power from wind turbines.




[0092] At 1000 rpm, Vmax=100 volts, so PWM duty-cycle (Ton)/(Ton+Toff) is essentially zero. Therefore, losses Imax<2>(RL+Rs)+2 VfImax=(10 amp)<2>(0.25 ohm)+(2 volt)(10 amp), amounting to 45 watts loss. Output power=(Imax)·(Vmax)=(Imax)·(VDC)=(10 amp)(100 volts)=1000 watts.


Therefore, generator efficiency at maximum speed and maximum power is about 95% for this example of generator and integrated electronics parameters.


[0093] At 500 rpm, Imax=(10 amp)/(4)=2.5 amps; and Vmax=(100 volts)*(0.5)=50 volts. So PWM duty-cycle=1⁄2. Average pulse power generated=(Imax)·(Vmax)=(Imax)·(VDC)/2=(2.5 amp)(50 volt)=125 watts.


Losses to maintain inductor current=Imax<2>(RL+Rs+Ron)=(2.5 amp)<2>(0.26 ohm)=1.6 watts. Fly-back diode losses=2 Vf·Imax/2=(0.6 v)(2.5 amp)=1.5 watts. So total losses=3.1 watts. Therefore, mid-speed generator efficiency is about 97%.


[0094] At 100 rpm. Imax=(10 amp)/(100)=0.1 amp; and Vmax=(100 volts)/(10)=10-volts. So PWM duty-cycle=9/10. Average pulse power generated=(Imax)·(Vmax)=(Imax)·(VDC)/10=(0.1 amp)(10 v)=1 watt.


Losses to maintain stator and inductor current=Imax<2>(RL+Rs+2·Rdson)=(0.1 amp)<2>(0.27 ohm)=0.0027-watt. Fly-back diode losses=(2·Vf)·(Imax)/10=(0.6 v)(0.1a)/5=0.012 watts. So total losses=0.015-watt. Thus, generator efficiency at low speed is about 98%.




https://www.city-journal.org/wind-power-is-not-the-answer (https://www.city-journal.org/wind-power-is-not-the-answer)
But the new study, published in Environmental Research Letters, shows yet again that wind energy’s Achilles heel is its paltry power density.


 “We found that the average power density—meaning the rate of energy generation divided by the encompassing area of the wind plant—was up to 100 times lower than estimates by some leading energy experts,” said lead author Lee Miller, a postdoctoral fellow who coauthored the report with Harvard physics professor David Keith.


 The problem is that most estimates of wind energy’s potential ignore “wind shadow, (https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/05/130516-wind-energy-shadow-effect/)” an effect that occurs when turbines are placed too closely together: the upwind turbines rob wind speed from others placed downwind.  ::)
 





It is called

BROAD SPEED RANGE GENERATOR


it can be also coupled,instead with wind blade/s ,with a compressed air engine,an ic engine or electric motor !


But the speed/power ratio under "inverse/cube law condition" stays valid !


Attention : above 1000/500/100 RPM " PWM duty-cycle " numbers


For the motor ,from DC or AC to Pulse ( PM or capacitive) : https://de.scribd.com/document/394252850/The-New-Law-of-Electrical-Power-Formation (https://de.scribd.com/document/394252850/The-New-Law-of-Electrical-Power-Formation)


Is in the papers an inverse/square law or inverse/cube law argumentation to find ?
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Naucni_radoviEng.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 16, 2021, 12:43:22 AM
If question 1 is how "much of a benefit is it at lower speeds".

I dont know. Does absolute speed matter?
p.s. If the original Milkovich double pendulum cannot be made self-powered, then I am thinking how to make it possible.

Same here.  I'm Just looking at various approaches.  I don't see the use of this double pendulum
as being something that will improve the power in to power out ratios.

But Lanka sure did popup some interesting links !

   best wishes
        floor




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 17, 2021, 10:51:57 AM
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Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 17, 2021, 01:15:57 PM
In the manufacturing process, only a ready-made electromagnetic drive is difficult to find.
The best in terms of efficiency current-mechanical force, was the drive of head from the hard disk.
But they have a slow distance of travel, limited by limiters.
And the VCR engine (kapstan) disappointed me.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on August 17, 2021, 03:12:02 PM
Old saying, "No material is useless in the hands of the master craftsman".

That is the way I try to look at some of the ideas, topics (and personalities)
on the O.U. forum. 

We can gain from seeing other peoples approaches to problem solving and the
ways they learn.  We can gain from seeing new devices and attempts
at free energy. We can gain from seeing how and why we respond to
other people. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
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Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 25, 2021, 07:52:34 PM
The pendulum in the extreme upper positions becomes weightless.
downward force on the suspension, the axis is missing?
And the downward force is maximum when the pendulum is at its lowest point.
And plus, centrifugal force is added to it, the greater the speed?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 26, 2021, 01:08:45 PM
And when the pendulum is at its lowest point, it pulls the large lever down.
The pendulum goes down too, and then it loses its energy.
The large lever drains energy from it. Therefore,
Milkovich himself says that his device is
 not overunity.  I'm right ?

p.s. What if our pendulum will being swing in the plane perpendicular to the large lever?
but not parallel to the big lever, as we usually see.
Will this change anything in the parameters of the Milkovich double pendulum?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 27, 2021, 08:32:10 AM


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Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
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--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 02, 2021, 05:04:55 PM
A pendulum was installed, oscillating in a plane perpendicular to the main lever.
The swinging pendulum pulls the end of the lever(bearing) in the swinging plane of the pendulum to the right, then to the left. If these forces are applied in a plane along a large lever, as in Milkovich's device, this is not visible, because there is great rigidity.  An interesting observation. ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 04, 2021, 04:58:20 PM
swing the pendulum in any direction
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on September 04, 2021, 07:50:36 PM
YEAH, I AM STILL ALIVE AND STILL LOUD. THIS UTUBE WILL HELP UNDERSTAND
THE EXTRACTION OF EXCESS POWER FROM AN INVERTED PENDULUM.
MY SUGGESTION IS THAT THE PENDULUM SHOULD BE CONNECTED TO A SPRINGY
METAL CONNECTION.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fslf98aw7E
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 04, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
Good to see you are still exploring  Seychelles.

Nice demo by ray.

Each wheel does one full rotation.
Total rotated distance for each wheel is the same at the end.
          but
First the wheel on the right rotates farther than the one on the left,
then the wheel on the left rotates farther than the one on the right.

The energy present is the same in both wheels, once a complete
cycle has occurred.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 05, 2021, 11:53:40 AM
https://youtu.be/nD3_3DZ7qFo (https://youtu.be/nD3_3DZ7qFo)
On the right, the load is heavier, but while the pendulum is swinging, it rises up!
With pulleys and ropes, did you come up with it yourself? It never crossed my mind ... :)
Is it patented?
p.s.It turns out that a double Milkovich pendulum with two pulleys can be replaced with a simple rope on two blocks?  And will it perform the same function?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 05, 2021, 02:38:19 PM
I thought it up. I thought it would be a simplifying of the Milkovic device.
I don't know if it was ever pateneted.

With some kind of ratchet on the cable it could be used for lifting.
Without a ratchet it could be used as part of a pump or hammer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on September 05, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
PURE GENIUS FLOOR. PITY YOU ARE A BIDEN SUPPORTER. ;D.
THAT WILL BE IDEAL IN A POOR COUNTRY FOR A GRAVITY LAMP.
RACHET IS REQUIRED THOUGH.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 05, 2021, 02:55:23 PM
Only the large horizontal arm (also a pendulum with its own oscillation period) is replaced with a spring pendulum on the right side.  add a spring to the bottom of the right weight, we get a spring pendulum instead of a lever one.
Only I do not understand why all this, if the device cannot be self-energized.

p.s.
Quote
With some kind of ratchet on the cable it could be used for lifting.
I have shown that even without the ratchet, as long as the pendulum continues to oscillate of sufficient intensity, the heavier weight goes up! When the swing stops, it goes down.
I really don't know why ...
Is the energy of my hand pushing the pendulum converted into lifting a load?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 05, 2021, 03:33:58 PM
There is momentum in the upward movment of the not swinging weight.

Energy is stored in the pendulum swing, but also in the upward momentum of the
lifted weight.

If the pendulum swings again, before that upward momentum is expended
then the lifting by the pendulum will combine with that upward momentum.

The lifting can become continueous but also speeds up and slows down / is jerky.

Its not O.U., its energy storage.

  PS
    nice demo

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 05, 2021, 03:54:50 PM
@ seychelles

The age of hero worship is past.
A president is just management.

There was no massive election fraud during the 2020 presidential election.
That was a lie.

What kind of man is Donald Tump, to promote such a lie, when it is so
destructive of democracy ?

We are under a psychological attack of divide and conquer.
Don't buy into it.
Hate is not the solution.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 05, 2021, 04:09:02 PM
Adding a spring is a cool idea. 

A spring will also store and then release energy.

This can improve the timing between storage and release of the energy,
make the timing of the pendulum swing less critical / extend the time period
over which energy is transferred.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 05, 2021, 06:13:07 PM
Milkovic did not invent the pendulum on a lever device.

Black smiths sometimes used this kind device for their hammers
more than a century before MilKovic was born.

That a pendulum can be more efficient than a continuously rotating device in
some applications ? This has also been know for centuries (example, clock pendulums).

Milkovic deserves credit for bringing it forward, examining and repoplarizing (marketing)
the method.

But it is not a free energy device, as far as any one has proven. 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 05, 2021, 06:48:15 PM
Quote
make the timing of the pendulum swing less critical
And who will tell me what is the ratio between the period of free oscillations in Milkovich of a large horizontal arm and a pendulum at its end, 1: 2?
This would be if you were to stop, wedge the horizontal large lever, and measure the free oscillations of the pendulum at the end.
And then, on the contrary, fix the pendulum at the end and measure the free oscillations of the big one?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 05, 2021, 07:59:22 PM
For a given pendulum mass and pendulum swing, the lifted weight must be tuned.
                                 Or the other way around.

In a given application in which the device is hand operated, a watchful eye to
adjust the pendulum push, timing and force.

Other wise a micro computer with  feed back / monitoring sensors.

Edit
   I'm pretty sure that of the many large industrial crushers in use, many must utilize
such automated feed back systems to adjust the pendulum push.

Edit 2
   How effective is your prototype at smoothly lowering the weight ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 05, 2021, 10:59:13 PM
Edit..

happy birth day.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on September 06, 2021, 09:11:32 PM
AND THAT'S ALL FOLKS.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on September 06, 2021, 10:48:24 PM
Nice variation seychelles !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 07, 2021, 11:06:54 AM
And if I manage to make a perpetual motion machine, do I have a chance to move to the Seychelles? :)
Will your king (or chief, whoever you have there) give me permanent residence?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on September 07, 2021, 02:16:52 PM
100 PERCENT. I AM THE KING OF ALL LOUD FISHERMEN.
GREAT FISHING BUT ALL THE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN HAVE
LEFT ONLY THE SHREKS ARE LEFT.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 09, 2021, 11:05:05 AM
New company

https://m.lacantine-steluce.fr/10th-Oct-2020/mtwmilling-machine-for-grinding-limestone.html

https://www.efor.cz/Feb/10-21651.html

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https://pow1c.pl/pebble/Thu_2300/

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https://r.saua2020.co.za/1602527645-PwBMNlEz_pendulum+mining+ball+mill-PwBMNlEz.html

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https://agatowcy.pl/mills/2021-May-24/3763.html

https://www.crystallina.cz/2019-03-29/28311.html

https://www.coachingopstap.nl/4D25095F-7139/

https://agatowcy.pl/mills/2021-May-24/3763.html

https://www.pierozekzgolabkiem.pl/dff68e65a36b-e018d9c5/

https://www.przeprowadzkadlazaka.pl/machine/Sep/57WAf.html

https://www.sporthotelstrelnice.cz/2020_Jan_12/27126.html

https://holzbau-reichlin.ch/54914/584SDO1_Apr.html

https://ubezpieczenienazycieidozycie.pl/system/Trapezium-Mill-Applied-In-Grinding-Lines-432_Wed/

https://www.drzwi-ostrow.pl/106289/01/57d0Pc1/

https://sunvillage.pl/news/2005-May-23_5858.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 10, 2021, 10:14:26 AM
уф на тебе, кратка форма.
Опет, оглашавање није јасно зашто ... >:(

100 PERCENT. I AM THE KING OF ALL LOUD FISHERMEN.
GREAT FISHING BUT ALL THE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN HAVE
LEFT ONLY THE SHREKS ARE LEFT.
So i am going to arrived?  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on September 10, 2021, 01:15:59 PM
KOLBA, CHECK OUT AWESOME CHARLIE D VILLAS ANSE KERLAN ON PRASLIN
ON BOOKING,COM AND I WILL OFFER YOU THE BEST DEAL FOR A LONG STAY.
FREE INTERNET FREE NETFLIX FREE KAYAK.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on September 10, 2021, 02:44:35 PM
                                              BUT ALL THE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN HAVE LEFT 

How it is about mermaids in Your waters around Seychelles ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3newxpYLOR8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3newxpYLOR8)  :-*   ;)   ;D 
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 12, 2021, 10:09:27 AM
Are these all Milkovich's patents on the double pendulum, or  or are there other?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 13, 2021, 01:23:42 PM
In recent days, many have been asking the Serbian inventor Veljko Milkovic why he is not asking for money from the companies around the world that produce and sell machines for heavy industry and which are based on his patented technology of the two-stage mechanical oscillator.

Milkovic states that he is not interested in money and that he is glad that with this move he finally proved that his invention is the greatest invention of all time.

- I'm not asking for anything, and everything I posted on the website is free, everyone has the right to look at the calculations and hire experts to make a machine with the help of which they will get free energy or cost reduction. I thank all the companies that mention me, and those that do not mention me could get started, because it does not cost them anything. I am still open for conversation and cooperation, and since I have an improved solution of a two-stage mechanical oscillator, I invite everyone interested to contact me for a free consultation.

Milkovic notes that companies that want to work on perfecting their machines, and on the account of his invention, are free to contact me, and at the same time he approves that everyone can use the drafts, without any obligations.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 14, 2021, 07:12:04 AM
Thanks.
I just came up with a design that I haven’t come across anywhere yet.
But, I suspect, there are many more variations on this design.
Quote
make a machine with the help of which they will get free energy or cost reduction.
Some doubt this.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on September 14, 2021, 03:34:16 PM
LANCA JUST FOR YOU FREE OF CHARGE STAY AT AWESOME CHARLIE D. ANYTIME JUST GIVE ME A BUZZ.
AND WE CAN GO CHECK OUT THESE MERMAIDS.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 17, 2021, 07:55:12 PM
Why does it take more work to keep the pendulum swinging with a higher amplitude than a lower one?  Where does the energy go?  The pendulum is suspended on a fixed support.
I was convinced of this experimentally.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 18, 2021, 11:09:26 AM
New company

https://tulipanovo.pl/23169/Feb/2016.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/crusher/used-hog-crusher-for-sale-grinding-mill-china-iron-ore-equations.html

https://www.freedanceutrecht.nl/10828/7ILZ4/pendulum_mass_mill_technical.html

https://www.spadkowepostepowanie.pl/Limestone/Jan_3280/

https://art-delices.fr/Dec_06+2400.html

https://www.detalentenschool.nl/crushercone/25796/1579082467.html

https://www.internad.pl/2020/07/04+28522.html

https://www.pensjonatben.pl/Apr-19/2410.html

http://www.sklep-rzeznik.pl/13336_machines-used-for-altra-fine-mtw-grinding-mill-supplier-mexico/

https://www.rhythermining.com/products_category/crushing-and-screening/

https://www.lalleedesrendezvous.fr/2020-12-12/grind-mill/cui9h7bu.html

https://www.internad.pl/2020/07/04+28522.html

https://www.kaizengdynia.pl/06_56354042.html

https://www.restauracja-marysienka.pl/Sep_21030/2020/

https://www.icscae.org/powder-grinding-equipment/12612/how.html

https://www.godynice.pl/machinery/24_Wed_1068.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 18, 2021, 05:51:50 PM
@kolbacict


This is an interesting question:


There is a condition where earth’s gravitational force (9.8m/s/s radially)
 times the distance (vertically travelled during 1/4 period)
is equal to the velocity of the pendulum.


At this condition, the energy required to keep the pendulum in motion is at its’ minimum.
This has a lot to do with the ‘natural frequency’ of a pendulum on earth.
This is the ideal condition sought after by clockmakers,
As this is the force required by the keeper mechanism to provide power to the shaft.
(leveraged of course by the distances from the fulcrum)


You will notice that the period remains unchanged, regardless of height.
Therefore, each pendulum length has an ‘ideal drop point’, or ideal maximum swing height.
Lower or higher than this and you are either inserting a driving force greater than gravity free fall,
or gravity itself is slowing you down.


Depending on which part of the period you are looking at.





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 18, 2021, 07:49:29 PM
Quote
You will notice that the period remains unchanged, regardless of height.
I noticed this.  :)
It turns out that even in the case of an ideal suspension, without friction and in an airless space, losses appear above a certain amplitude?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 24, 2021, 10:59:46 AM
new copmany


https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

https://www.podiglica.pl/Aug-23/23032.html

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://www.de-gusto.pl/34545/Cub_E_Hammer_Mill/Jul.html

https://www.filtrymagnetyczne.pl/vibrating/1817/sbm-mill-mtw.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://avsbouwdenhaag.nl/india/2020_Aug_17432.html

https://www.sbmmfj.com/?from=wallfashion.eu

https://www.darmounia.pl/28105/CW3k6-Jan-1970.html

https://agatowcy.pl/mills/2021-May-24/3763.html

https://www.workyourbusiness.be/17306-Sep-2019.html

https://bbg.net.pl/Jul_10+34040.html

https://www.paires.pl/May/30-7321.html

https://dubbeldam-offshore.online/08-07/sbm-grinding-mill-sa-thailand.html

https://www.erster-schultag.ch/2/2021-Jun-25-Fri/4202/

https://akademickaszkolaliderow.pl/For/517/2021/

https://metrolux.com.pl/2016_04_02/3419.html

https://afrodyta-okrycia.pl/Grinding/8118/kmr7E.html

https://jupco.pl/ore/Feb/2021/4544/

https://www.countryfestival.pl/Ton/2021_Jul/437/

https://tulipanovo.pl/23169/Feb/2016.html

https://www.zespol-euphoria.pl/quarry/2021-Aug-Tue/232/

https://www.elpu.pl/13914/crusher.html

https://www.restauracja-marysienka.pl/Sep_21030/2020/

https://fotobudka-bialystok.pl/1985-Jul-2009.html

https://www.andbud-pleszew.pl/Nov/01-13912.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products_category/milling-and-classifying/

https://www.sistematika.lt/30199/jmkPe1.html

https://www.mleconomy.cz/9222/XhpJX0


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 28, 2021, 10:52:20 AM
https://youtu.be/2GshGk2Z4f8 (https://youtu.be/2GshGk2Z4f8)
Here i am  ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 01, 2021, 11:18:48 AM
Large world-famous and recognized companies from India, China and America, folloewd by numerous companies from other countries that have their offices around the world, produce machines, crushers and devices based on a two-stage mechanical oscillator. These are companies operating in Russia, Kazakhstan, South Africa, Indonesia… The mentioned companies are leaders in the production of machines for crushing ores and stones, and his invention is widely used within the new technology project, where foreign companies recognized the importance of Milkovic's invention.

These companies have recognized the value of Milković's invention as a working mechanism with the lowest possible maintenance costs and maximum efficiency, applied it in the design of a new generation of industrial machines and widely sold it around the world.




https://fuzz.com.pl/cone/2021-09-24-1675/

https://magazinliberec.cz/mining/2021-May-20-Thu/37/

https://www.sbmmfj.com/?from=wallfashion.eu

https://www.hotel-macocha.cz/21336/58hQY0/Dec/07/

https://deh-energie.nl/process/Apr-4197.html

https://avsbouwdenhaag.nl/india/2020_Aug_17432.html

https://www.workyourbusiness.be/17306-Sep-2019.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.ciptu.cz/3389/fXyIf2.html

https://www.gdpau.org/hammer-crusher/47ig5yb6/2020-07-07.html

https://akademickaszkolaliderow.pl/For/517/2021/

https://weselny-wodzirej.pl/barite/1627971456-3297/

https://www.poutbranna.cz/Honduras/41111/5iklT3/

https://afrodyta-okrycia.pl/Grinding/10286/lI4043.html

https://www.body-master.pl/mill/3454/lindemann+kg+crushers.html

https://www.likerate.pl/jaw_crusher/1608952321/16520.html

https://tanner-metallbau.ch/Dec/15_12301.html

https://en.nextnature.pl/view/3066.htm

https://www.elpu.pl/13914/crusher.html

https://www.countryfestival.pl/Ton/2021_Jul/437/

https://www.podlaskiklasterenergii.pl/Denmark/38988+9vQCh1.html

https://pestoband.pl/crawler/Aug-5520/

https://www.sylwekpinczuk.pl/coal/Mar-4116/
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 05, 2021, 12:08:52 AM
https://youtu.be/2GshGk2Z4f8 (https://youtu.be/2GshGk2Z4f8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 06, 2021, 09:29:32 PM
I cannot achieve synchronous swinging of two identical pendulums, by pushing them away from one another, without support from a fixed base.
https://youtu.be/2GshGk2Z4f8 (https://youtu.be/2GshGk2Z4f8)
Rested into a dead end. It's a mystery to me. They swing only one at a time. When one sways, the other is motionless. :o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 07, 2021, 01:08:02 AM
Probably will need to connect them together with a toothed gear
between them.  But this will increase friction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 07, 2021, 07:55:02 AM
one pendulum is attached to the shaft of the collector motor.
the other on it's stator. the ends of the shaft rotate easily in the bearings of the support (lever).
the current pulse to the motor is synchronized by the hall sensor, at the moment when one passes the other. some kind of mysticism. Need your help. :(
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 07, 2021, 01:12:35 PM
Look at the direction of force during each part of the pendulum cycle.


Think of the motor as being a free-floating object here.
(note that one axis is removed from this observation)


Now - neither is being held in place,
and you have 3 forces. Motor, and each pendulum
When added/subtracted the resultant force determines
   which one moves and which one ‘braces’
One has to push off the momentum of the other.
In a true equilibrium situation, there would be no ‘net’ torque on the axis
and the 2 pendulii would act as one. Each swinging 1/2 cycle
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 07, 2021, 02:03:11 PM
The oscillation periods of both pendulums are adjusted in the same way.
Moments of inertia and weight are about the same. According to Newton's third law, the forces acting on both pendulums at the moment of the current pulse must be the same, but opposite.
And only one of them is swinging. If you hold it with your hand still, the other begins to swing.
p.s. In the video, both swing in the same way, but there they receive impulses of force from a pulse generator with a selected frequency corresponding to their own period of the pendulums.
There was no hall sensor there yet. This is an old video. So why does it work.
I don't understand.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 07, 2021, 05:00:45 PM
@ kolbacict

Maybe the motor's rotor and stator are not of the same mass ?

Ever if they are of equal mass ... they do not have the same inertia potential
as each other. Because the mass of each one, is distributed differently, one from the
other, (in terms of the distance from the center of rotation). 

Next..
Friction at the bearing surfaces (motor shaft bushings)...
Duel pendulum mechanism's connection to the rocking arm ....

Does the mechanical arrangement cause there to be more rotational friction present
in one pendulum as compared to the other ?
... ... ... ... ...
Assuming that it is consistently / always the same one (pendulum) that starts to swing
in your set up.... I don't know ?  You have not been specific in that regard...

Add more mass to that pendulum, (the one that swings) ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 07, 2021, 06:19:58 PM
Quote
Add more mass to that pendulum, (the one that swings) ?
On the middle pendulum, it is easy to change the height of stay of the load and the load itself.
Quote
Does the mechanical arrangement cause there to be more rotational friction present
in one pendulum as compared to the other ?
No. I do not think.
Quote
Assuming that it is consistently / always the same one (pendulum) that starts to swing
in your set up.... I don't know ?  You have not been specific in that regard...
Yes it is. This is the middle pendulum.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 08, 2021, 11:03:27 AM
Large world-famous and recognized companies from India, China and America, folloewd by numerous companies from other countries that have their offices around the world, produce machines, crushers and devices based on a two-stage mechanical oscillator. These are companies operating in Russia, Kazakhstan, South Africa, Indonesia… The mentioned companies are leaders in the production of machines for crushing ores and stones, and his invention is widely used within the new technology project, where foreign companies recognized the importance of Milkovic's invention.

These companies have recognized the value of Milković's invention as a working mechanism with the lowest possible maintenance costs and maximum efficiency, applied it in the design of a new generation of industrial machines and widely sold it around the world.

https://jubegin.de/2009-1520.html

https://www.pasazrozkvet.cz/2474/2021-02-20/Uv7OK2

https://www.gdpau.org/hammer-crusher/47ig5yb6/2020-07-07.html

https://www.ancgroup.pl/16790-Oct-2012.html

https://www.antonfoto4k.pl/14886_two_stage_mill_machinery.html

https://www.manglabros.in/Aug/23072_08

https://klimattworzaludzie.pl/stone/5125.html

http://www.wcbl-warsaw.pl/crusherreferensistone/jfJuC0

https://tanienoclegikielce.com.pl/2016-08-30_1939.html

https://auto-ecole-saint-etienne.fr/fruit/2021-Sep-06-4621/

https://www.alenosorozec.pl/jaw/2458/2021_09_39/

https://diwalkoburger.pl/grind-mill/list-30.html

https://fearlesscities.waw.pl/May/18-24973.html

https://xn--akademiapikarskaams-fgd.pl/2011-4721.html

https://wynajem-jachtu.pl/z5js5o/3644.html

https://www.darmounia.pl/34104/30KHNV3-Jan-1970.html

https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

https://labelprinters.pl/slag/2021_4_1899/

https://a2pasdechezmoi.be/16320-Oct-2016.html

https://www.restauracja-marysienka.pl/Sep_21030/2020/

https://www.elpu.pl/13914/crusher.html

https://www.catering-pasjonata.pl/2021-Sep-30/32913.html

https://beero.be/Dec_16+483.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 08, 2021, 06:23:19 PM
Quote
When added/subtracted the resultant force determines
   which one moves and which one ‘braces’
Do both pendulums have to have exactly the same moment of inertia?
This is not easy to do ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 09, 2021, 04:36:08 PM
                    Thanks for the snap shots.
smoky2's comments are spot on.

If the middle pendulum is held stationary, the outer pendulum shaft,
rotates within 4 bearings.

If the outer pendulum is held stationary, the inner pendulum rotates
within two bearings,

If all four bearings are friction equal.
This is still a 2 to 1 friction difference.
... ... ... ...
Do both pendulums have to have exactly the same moment of inertia?
This is not easy to do ...

But isn't that the goal, of the two pendulum design any way ?
... ... ... ... ...
 Not easy, and can never be perfect.

"Close enough" and one pendulum will start before the other, But also
at the point of one's having achieved a fine balancing of the moments of inertia,
minor friction difference will become the next factor.
... ... ... ...
Get the moments of inertia closely matched, then gear the two pendulums
together ?

               or
https://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg560162/#msg560162
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 09, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
If the moments of inertia of the suspension and the load can still be calculated.
however the moments of inertia of the stator and rotor with their complex shape are not at all easy to do. Only experimentally select?
But I noticed that if i give short current pulses just from a pulse generator, with a frequency approximately corresponding to the period of oscillations, they swing perfectly together.
What, in fact, is shown in that video. And the system is not even critical to the moment of inertia of the pendulum.But shocks of force can be anywhere in their trajectory. And I wanted it to be at the bottom.
As soon as you install the hall sensor, miracles begin ... :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 09, 2021, 10:39:55 PM
The video shows both pendulums swinging in sync.
Your comments said they one starts before the other.

Do they start off unequally, but then later they fall  into synchronization ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 10, 2021, 03:51:20 PM
Exactly so. For ease of understanding, a single impulse is enough only and both pendulums diverge at the same distance. Why don't they do the same with the hall sensor and tracking electronics?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 11, 2021, 07:43:52 AM
Exactly so. For ease of understanding, a single impulse is enough only and both pendulums diverge at the same distance. Why don't they do the same with the hall sensor and tracking electronics?

Unclear statements, and I'm left to guess at what you are referring to.  Not enough
details. 

i.e I post
"The video shows both pendulums swinging in sync.
Your comments said they one starts before the other.
Do they start off unequally, but then later they fall  into synchronization ?"
... ... ... ...
You respond
"Exactly so. For ease of understanding, a single impulse is enough only and both pendulums diverge at the same distance. Why don't they do the same with the hall sensor and tracking electronics?"


    which is it ?
They start off unequally, but then later they fall  into synchronization.
                           or
A single impulse is enough only and both pendulums diverge at the same distance.

Do you see what I'm saying ?

I'm not willing to ask 20 questions just because you are not being specific enogh.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 11, 2021, 06:19:59 PM
https://youtu.be/DWXp3ExOgnk (https://youtu.be/DWXp3ExOgnk)
Well, that might make it clearer ...
The middle pendulum tends to oscillate all the time ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 12, 2021, 07:33:37 AM
Very cool ...
         Thanks
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 15, 2021, 02:53:44 AM
Lets get one thing straight::


Milkovich did NOT invent this.
He only invented the Manual use of this as a water pump.


The device itself was inherited from the Dutch, 200 yrs ago
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 15, 2021, 11:08:24 AM
Large world-famous and recognized companies from India, China and America, folloewd by numerous companies from other countries that have their offices around the world, produce machines, crushers and devices based on a two-stage mechanical oscillator. These are companies operating in Russia, Kazakhstan, South Africa, Indonesia… The mentioned companies are leaders in the production of machines for crushing ores and stones, and his invention is widely used within the new technology project, where foreign companies recognized the importance of Milkovic's invention.

These companies have recognized the value of Milković's invention as a working mechanism with the lowest possible maintenance costs and maximum efficiency, applied it in the design of a new generation of industrial machines and widely sold it around the world.



https://sabordanza.fr/high/12-25_18683.html

https://www.qc-electronics.site/2020_08_14/23245.html

https://www.filtrymagnetyczne.pl/vibrating/1817/sbm-mill-mtw.html

https://www.reformhaus-schaer.de/milling-machine/6hdhxn97/cryo.html

https://www.evaandries.be/Crusher/1689-Jan-27.html

https://www.medialive.com.pl/18832/07-05-2016/mill-machine-for-gypsum.html

https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

https://ingwendecaterers.co.za/9th-Mar-2021/2021_shibang+mtw+grinding+mill-mcbLhhoJ.html

https://deh-energie.nl/process/Apr-4197.html

https://strzelnica-shockfire.pl/pakistan/2021_4021_Tue.html

https://www.nivisc.nl/stone/21_Jul_26-4138/

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.darmounia.pl/34104/30KHNV3-Jan-1970.html

https://www.freedanceutrecht.nl/17354/570ajc3/mtw_trapezium_mill_prix.html

https://sahara-imbiss-berlin.de/CGHaVSdP/218_e6+mineral+processing+spiral+classifier-CGHaVSdP.html

https://www.workyourbusiness.be/17306-Sep-2019.html

https://www.vffassistance.fr/13928/spare77-spare-parts-mtw-138-series-trapezium-mill.html

https://www.joelecharri.fr/16677/OZ4TT3

https://www.skupinababylon.cz/rock/Jun_2006/

https://parketbrehov.cz/grinding-mill/p3tuvq47/panama.html

https://balustradybalkonowesmyk.pl/Wed+May+23178.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://www.bajusie.pl/singapour/2067/Jan_Fri_21/

https://www.willarawa.pl/May/18_21069.html

https://ethnophoto.ch/mobile/1970_30634/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.kuchniabobasa.pl/BA6k02/st/20693

https://mva2019.ch/plant-39905-2018.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 22, 2021, 09:13:15 AM

https://www.kineduc.be/2020-05-31/8592.html

https://spokoobozy.pl/grind-mill/8e400w0p/europian.html

https://www.ac-usa.pl/cone/1304.html

https://tanner-metallbau.ch/Dec/15_12301.html

https://www.wypadekanglia.pl/mining-machine/202a81f5_23749.html

https://www.bizwet.nl/Iran/17269/

https://www.reformhaus-schaer.de/milling-machine/6hdhxn97/cryo.html

https://www.hotel-radlovec.cz/famous/Dec/333/1608193553.html

https://impresaedilebischeriluca.it/gold5/9421-pendulum-grinding-machine-manufacturer-sweden.html

https://www.eyespy.cz/ore/2021-Aug-Tue/5360/

https://parketbrehov.cz/grinding-mill/p3tuvq47/panama.html

http://www.sklep-rzeznik.pl/13336_machines-used-for-altra-fine-mtw-grinding-mill-supplier-mexico/

https://www.reformhaus-schaer.de/milling-machine/6hdhxn97/cryo.html

https://www.nadacesestryakvinely.cz/Lebanon/23991_1561651602.html

https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

https://magicfruits.com.pl/2021-21-14/7252.html

https://strzelnica-shockfire.pl/pakistan/2021_4021_Tue.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.darmounia.pl/34104/30KHNV3-Jan-1970.html

https://cricklewood.com.au/ku119-2/mtw-mills-for-sale-in-colorado-manganese-ore-milling-machine.html

https://www.mychemicalromance.com.pl/2018_04_17/12818.html

https://niedrogadroga.pl/unite/Sep_3463/

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html


https://www.hollywood-hostel.pl/project1/01_70991/

https://www.medialive.com.pl/18832/07-05-2016/mill-machine-for-gypsum.html
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 22, 2021, 09:54:43 AM
Just thinking about the best way to convert motion to electricity.
I think Milkovich is not the best option. ;)

https://overunity.com/18875/o-u-magnet-force-shielding-1/dlattach/attach/183403/ (https://overunity.com/18875/o-u-magnet-force-shielding-1/dlattach/attach/183403/)
Maybe a design that generates electricity would be better?
Because the move distance is small there, and so is the speed.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 22, 2021, 03:15:17 PM
My first imperssiion..

cool.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 22, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Well, yes. The thinner the coils are, ideally pancake, and the more be they, the better.
Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 22, 2021, 11:10:55 PM
What kind of coils and in which directions do the windings lay.

i.e. ...  is the ilustration a cut away view of the coils ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 23, 2021, 11:37:44 AM
Lets get one thing straight::


Milkovich did NOT invent this.
He only invented the Manual use of this as a water pump.


The device itself was inherited from the Dutch, 200 yrs ago
I readily believe it was Dutch. 200 yrs ago.
But I need it now.
And it's better to improve something from yourself. :)
p.s.
Used flat coils from сapstan VCR.
It turns out badly. Maybe this is all nonsense ...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 23, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
https://www.kurs-speyer.de/powder-grinding-equipment/15449/mtw.html?fbclid=IwAR3drTd9qsLot70zMFvuQNwVsNPUg_hZgIulYOq3UaAZGKCtQ4NshrVDUIg


https://vortex-energy-obrot.pl/mobile/2021-Aug-28_3770/?fbclid=IwAR178HV53ZeWzfaSSieLxQUY6gClqkJLqE7jKiGAPjmfTei6wtMGySaAgvA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 24, 2021, 01:52:02 PM
https://www.kurs-speyer.de/powder-grinding-equipment/15449/mtw.html?fbclid=IwAR3drTd9qsLot70zMFvuQNwVsNPUg_hZgIulYOq3UaAZGKCtQ4NshrVDUIg


https://bewa.waw.pl/pendulum/machines/8049.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 29, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
new company

https://studiorufusisback.be/1433/02/2010.html

https://organicmedia.pl/26824/crushers/2021-10-10/

https://allaboutcoffee.pl/26835/05/2018.html

https://www.ospkobylany.pl/33837/eRLbC/06/

https://dubbeldam-offshore.online/08-07/sbm-grinding-mill-sa-thailand.html

https://www.reformhaus-schaer.de/milling-machine/6hdhxn97/cryo.html

https://www.pspradziechowice.pl/hammer/2021_Jul_26/3311_Mon/

https://noclegi-przemysl.pl/21416/2021/mill.html

https://shanjiefactory.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-815484524/Grinding_Mill.html?scene=all

https://www.hotel-radlovec.cz/famous/Dec/333/1608193553.html

https://www.hollywood-hostel.pl/project1/01_70991/
https://auxjardins-dulys.fr/Mar/06-23190.html

https://www.wypadekanglia.pl/mining-machine/202a81f5_23749.html

https://www.spzachelmna.pl/cost/3314-264/

https://www.rhythermining.com/products_category/milling-and-classifying/

https://www.tessa24.pl/crusher/2021_5674_1625388145/

https://odpocznijnadstawem.pl/dolomite/1626944175-4803/

https://www.rgpolytechnic.co.in/Dec/23-9814.html

https://www.agodrogi.pl/2388/z8pgo2.html

https://www.crocenerasaluzzo.it/2021_07_07/32619.html

https://niedrogadroga.pl/unite/Sep_3463/

https://lipce-zajazd.pl/Oct/15-2253.html
https://adwokat-kiwic-jastrzebie-zdroj.pl/4397/08/2007.html

http://www.diglog.com/story/1031354.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 31, 2021, 04:00:16 PM
NEW VIDEO BY VELJKO MILKOVIC

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates his latest achievements in the field of two-stage oscillator development presenting a new improved model with an elastic (flexible) pendulum and elastic (flexible) lever which is far more efficient than the previous oscillator versions.
This fast and superior model has been significantly improved with elastic oscillations that give a better result with both the pendulum and the lever. The work is still underway on further technical improvements.

This advanced technology is being investigated on all continents. There are now over 500 companies from Southeast Asia that are producing, developing and practically applying the machines based on the principle of Veljko Milkovic’s two-stage oscillator.

New Fast and Improved Two-Stage Oscillator (VIDEO)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wn15yJ9JYY

* English subtitles available in the video player settings *
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Floor on October 31, 2021, 05:10:50 PM
Very nice
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on November 01, 2021, 06:04:43 AM
Quote
New Fast and Improved Two-Stage Oscillator (VIDEO)
Does the hesitation not stop for so long? :o
Why can't I do this?
Maybe his table vibrates and feeds the oscillation with energy?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 05, 2021, 09:22:05 AM

new company

https://akademickaszkolaliderow.pl/For/517/2021/

https://www.medialive.com.pl/18832/07-05-2016/mill-machine-for-gypsum.html

https://saint-honore.it/Jul/12-7557.html
https://www.villasillenzio.pl/February/03_19048.html

https://prof-bud.com.pl/21-Sep-11-4085.html

https://cateringgrupakosciuszko.pl/coal/Aug/1589/03.html

https://m.discoverpolynesia.fr/CtDFaqmq/15_top-quality-cement-grinding-mill-in-favourable-price-CtDFaqmq.html

https://www.pizzeriacaruso.it/Aug/07-15693.html

https://www.leboucher.it/2015/09/03+12417.html

https://desterkearmveenendaal.nl/NcxotAAr/268_compound+pendulum+ball+mill+mining+machinery+NcxotAAr.html

https://www.nivisc.nl/stone/21_Jul_26-4138/

https://www.lemontecristo-senlis.fr/Apr/01-34191.html

https://www.grafixjaroslaw.pl/forged/1626932715-4731/

https://www.restaurantlepoussin.ch/Jan/29+10356.html

https://devosraadendaad.nl/23_Sep_2013_9630.html

https://www.restauracja-marysienka.pl/Sep_21030/2020/

https://izopurbud.pl/sale/1150/05.html

https://dharuhera.in/8sdp2wpz/grind-mill.html

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://thesong.pl/machinery/19yWFb1_115970.html
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 11, 2021, 11:09:23 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.
The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

https://www.rotomolder.com.pl/gold/2141-1635997188/

https://wynajem-jachtu.pl/z5js5o/3644.html

https://www.grafixjaroslaw.pl/forged/1626932715-4731/

https://tanner-metallbau.ch/Dec/15_12301.html

https://agsvs.uk/24073-grinding_machine-06/

https://www.leboucher.it/2015/09/03+12417.html

https://marankursyjezykowe.pl/mill/Sep_10/35576.html

https://www.mariuszmajewski.pl/15646/2019-08-22/0giTB0

https://www.autocenter.waw.pl/Mar/11-5002.html

https://opelfleet.pl/second/Jun_Sun_3885/

https://www.elpu.pl/13914/crusher.html

https://www.szymongajewski.pl/collide/6486_Jun/

https://metrolux.com.pl/2016_04_02/3419.html

https://www.geomass.fr/Sep/14-28722.html

https://czastosztuka.pl/2009-09-2665.html

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://inzynieriasrodowiska.edu.pl/Jul/20_30355.html

https://janmar-catering.pl/kenya/2021_02_01_881/

https://www.krakdrob.pl/06_f7976f6e.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products_category/milling-and-classifying/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 19, 2021, 10:45:12 AM
New Company


https://artofseeing.in/dryer/Apr_Monday_27621/

http://bslabaule.fr/10954/durable-spring-compound-ball-mill-in-mining-machine.html

https://motorslaski.pl/May/21_30003.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.emuprint.pl/Jun/25-11317.html

https://www.zon-szczecinek.pl/2018_08_pendulum_magnet_for_crusher.html

https://mouillepointaccommodation.co.za/loge/1365_new-tybig-input-ball-mill-machin-made-in.html

https://www.wypadekanglia.pl/mining-machine/202a81f5_23749.html

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html

https://taxido.com.pl/ore/2021-Oct-29_5722/

https://projektzbrodnia.pl/14316/02/2013.html

https://goodiesbox.pl/2017-Nov-09/14838.html

http://woodnsteel.be/jaw/Oct-303/

https://www.hostplus.pl/Jan/nepal-trapezium-mill-roller-spare.html

https://www.swedenborg-zentrum.ch/complete/Jan_241_2021/

https://www.pizzeria-amorebio.it/2021-05-10_33141.html

https://www.ancgroup.pl/16790-Oct-2012.html

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 22, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
companies that produce machines according to Veljko Milković's patent, but do not mention Milković

https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/crushing-machines.html

https://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/Shanghai-Machine/6008852750341/pdtl/Jaw-crusher-machine/1164140744.htm

https://detail.en.china.cn/provide/p111999907.html

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 26, 2021, 11:02:11 AM
Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.
Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 500 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.
The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.




https://galerie-barockscheune.de/crusher/11606/tanzania.html

https://www.bizwet.nl/Burundi/153/

https://sluccc.eu/20-08-21st/mtw+mill+for+sale+cost+with+ce-pMPercsL.html

https://dsm-decoupe-sur-mesure.fr/Nov-10/3530.html

https://www.marcsaliou-carrelage.fr/Feb-21_5462.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html
https://www.maizerollermill.com/five-central-asian-countries-maize-grinding-mill-sale-zimbabwe-professional_13102/

https://mauers.pl/2016-May-30/4098.html

https://www.ledlighttubes.com.pl/drive/2021-Jul-3/992.html

https://www.retouralecole.fr/feeder-Jan/39ssLf2

https://www.villa-sequoia.fr/Dec/28-783.html

https://aperayssac.fr/soap/4628/trapezium-stone-grinding-mill-supplier-.html

https://mahranschool.com/Mar/12-6512.html

https://ilfocolare-ristorante.it/Feb/13-21912.html

https://www.palazzoguastalla.it/2019_09_23/10512.html

https://sanremoristruttura.it/06/26_33911.html

https://www.prominetech.com/mining-section/

https://sushismile.fr/May/17-25567.html

https://mp4ciechanow.pl/2021-Feb-05/8851.html

https://sylvi-pasquier.fr/2064/06-08-2016/

https://www.propertyinvestors.pl/vermiculite/Jul_Sat_1134/

https://quinzigalvanica.it/2438/07-08-2015/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on November 27, 2021, 02:26:12 AM
Does the hesitation not stop for so long? :o
Why can't I do this?
Maybe his table vibrates and feeds the oscillation with energy?




Pump-Jack mechanics:


If you think of the pump cylinder + a volume of water as being one mass
Call it M1, call the swinging weight M2
You have 2 distances: D1 and D2, these being the distances from
the main fulcrum (upper bar pivot point).


M1*D1 = M2*D2


Under this condition, the mechanism requires the least energy to operate


The oil industry has already perfected this device for us
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on November 27, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
These?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 28, 2021, 01:57:22 PM

Interesting replica


Novel Magnetic Generator With A Milkovic Pendulum Machine


Ray's Small Distance Generator With Pendulum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDGxSK6sEU4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on November 29, 2021, 08:25:43 AM
I understand that the big cylinder at the bottom is a permanent magnet.
And at the end of the rod there is a flat coil.
He would have placed another such magnet on top, the EMF would have been larger. ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 03, 2021, 06:16:52 AM
a year has passed, and no one has explained why the pendulums swing for so long in Milkovich's video. In free vibration mode, does it have super bearings? Why can't I do this?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 03, 2021, 10:50:21 AM
New company - Veljko Milković





https://dach-od-kuchni.pl/29156-bande-25/

https://devosraadendaad.nl/23_Sep_2013_9630.html

https://www.mandalas.ch/2018/Nov/19-2251.html

https://lome-meble.pl/crushing-machine/Jul_26353.html

https://cukierniamalgorzata.pl/Nov-05/28488.html

https://www.sushismile.fr/Oct/29-34041.html

https://www.ancgroup.pl/16790-Oct-2012.html

https://dharuhera.in/8sdp2wpz/grind-mill.html

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://www.qc-electronics.site/2020_08_14/23245.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products_category/milling-and-classifying/

https://hofses.pl/ore/63/10/

https://jlk-rescue.fr/8204/18-12-2015/

https://pereabeille.eu/2011-4180.html

https://www.sanitary-wares.es/18830-performan-Hio781.html

https://cukierniamalgorzata.pl/Nov-13/28857.html

https://sansificiotomasello.it/10148/25-09-2013/

https://bassin-transportela.fr/Jun/05+29054.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/crusher/used-hog-crusher-for-sale-grinding-mill-china-iron-ore-equations.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 03, 2021, 04:22:18 PM
HE USED A FLAT SPRING METAL AS THE SUSPENSION.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 04, 2021, 07:52:38 AM
with use spring for suspension,also not long oscillation from me. :(
I think,Milcovic was twiching the rope. :D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 10, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
https://kyotosushi94.fr/Feb/13-36155.html

https://www.ospkobylany.pl/33837/eRLbC/06/

https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html

https://prof-bud.com.pl/21-Sep-11-4085.html

https://www.babiogorska.edu.pl/2022-3941/machines_used_for_altra_fine_mtw_grinding_mill_supplier_mexico

https://www.sportmethuub.online/11_02/27789.html

https://www.immobilien-rupf.ch/equipment/Aug_1706/

https://stayingreservations.co.za/21-04-12th/1618183301_strict/quality/control/grinding/mills/for/sale/in/zimbabwe-18092021.html

https://www.pizzaservice94.fr/2021/02/13+31017.html

https://www.pemoca.es/stone/3190/industrial-grinding-mill-machine-trapezium-mill-for-sale.html

https://sgctadong.in/Mar/24045_03

https://www.lebouteillon.fr/2019/Nov/20_24959.html

https://www.auberge-desvoyageurs.fr/05_25/high-capacity-impact-crusher-donxie.html

https://impresaedilebischeriluca.it/gold5/9421-pendulum-grinding-machine-manufacturer-sweden.html

https://cavemansbbq.fr/Nov_27/8417.html

https://dach-od-kuchni.pl/29156-bande-25/

https://devosraadendaad.nl/23_Sep_2013_9630.html

https://dharuhera.in/8sdp2wpz/grind-mill.html

https://www.socalowka.pl/2021-21-15/12111.html

https://ilfocolare-ristorante.it/Jun/29-2936.html

https://www.barbabuc.it/Jan-20/6119.html

https://quinzigalvanica.it/2438/07-08-2015/

https://www.ancgroup.pl/16790-Oct-2012.html

https://ogrodzenia-jaroslaw.pl/130031/nigeria-18.html

https://www.nlp-morava.cz/barite/Apr-1208.html

https://www.centrum-gajda.waw.pl/mobile/3223-21_Oct_11

https://pereabeille.eu/2011-4180.html

https://novertic.pl/silica/2015-03/34397/

https://wangwang.pl/hst/2021_3963/

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://suenodevarsovia.pl/granite/2021-Apr-21-Wed/5115/

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html



New company
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 15, 2021, 05:51:08 PM

New international papers

http://eprints.unram.ac.id/2766/2/BAB%20II.docx


https://quartattenzione.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/A-New-Energy_quartattenzione.pdf


http://103.47.12.35/bitstream/handle/1/3582/FinalProjectReport.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y


https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/23/8064/pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 15, 2021, 06:54:24 PM
But what if at the end of the lever, instead of the usual pendulum, we hang Maxwell's pendulum? :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 17, 2021, 10:38:47 AM
New company


https://www.deuxcel.nl/powder-grinding-mill/24014-trapezium.html

https://niemiecki-przysiegly.com.pl/19960/news/1527995184.html

https://meble-shop.com.pl/04-11_12633.html

https://www.zromanovachovu.cz/Quartz/27206+1538842208/

https://nos3maisons.org/26853/filter-disc-grinding-mtw-trapezium-grinding-mill-uganda.html

https://www.bistropuik.nl/2015-08-31_tph-ball-mill-na-semento.html

https://www.rs-rubikon.pl/manganese/2943/2021_1614587409/

https://theraphosidae.cz/2020/Sep/23_4016.html

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://www.ristorantespaccanapoli.it/research/2995/mtw-europea-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://valleyhill.ch/capacity/1970-01-01/166152/

https://www.geomass.fr/May/19-35915.html

https://www.tanz-tage.at/machine/145760_01_28860.html

https://tanner-metallbau.ch/Dec/13_24381.html

https://dharuhera.in/8sdp2wpz/grind-mill.html

https://www.pmko.cz/SABC/23796.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 19, 2021, 09:21:42 AM
And anybody tried to  made an electrical analogue of the Milkovich mechanical device?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 19, 2021, 09:31:28 AM
KOLBA CANNOT BE DONE BECAUSE THERE IS ONE FACTOR THAT CAN NOT BE INCORPORATED
INTO ELECTRICAL IS GRAVITY.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 19, 2021, 10:06:56 AM
Well, potential energy is usually thought of as the energy stored in a capacitor.
And kinetic energy is like inductance.  In similar analogies.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 19, 2021, 04:06:49 PM
And anybody tried to  made an electrical analogue of the Milkovich mechanical device?


Is there a point? They still haven’t gotten the mechanical one to produce excess energy.


Take the original, flow the water output across a pelton wheel to a keeper


If you want, raise the tank so ground level so you can see the pump height clearly


It winds down exactly like a clock pendulum when the weights hit the floor


Thats why pump jacks have motors on them.


To be clear, yes electromagnetic versions of this type of system have existed
for decades in niche commercial applications where a large bobbin is a technical concern.







Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 19, 2021, 04:09:30 PM
KOLBA CANNOT BE DONE BECAUSE THERE IS ONE FACTOR THAT CAN NOT BE INCORPORATED
INTO ELECTRICAL IS GRAVITY.


A vertical solenoid with a doide + capacitor feedback circuit
becomes a electromagnetic gravitational oscillator.
Each solenoid will have it’s own gravity resonance
at which it performs best.


The E=mGh equation is verified by these tests within the accuracy
of our known electrical losses.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 20, 2021, 05:30:08 PM
How about hanging the swinging Milkovich pendulum on the rotor of Maxwell's pendulum? ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 20, 2021, 05:42:55 PM
NEVER SAY IT CAN NOT BE DONE TO A HONEY BADGER.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 21, 2021, 02:42:35 AM
We have all the free energy in the world
We just need a Milkovic to sit there and keep
the pendulum swinging for us…
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 21, 2021, 04:07:00 AM
SMOKY, IT IS THE WORKING PRINCIPLE OF THE THING.
ONE THING THAT WE ALL HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IS TIME.
KWH, THE H IS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. SO A SWINGING PENDULUM IS
DELIVERING EXCESS ENERGY WHEN IT IS PERPENDICULAR TO THE CENTRE OF
THE EARTH. SO WE HAVE TO DEVISE A MACHINE THAT DOES THAT AT A SUPER
SPEED. AND APPARENTLY, THIS GUY FERNANDO HAS ATTEMPTED TO DO THIS.
THIS IS THE UTUBE TO DEMONSTRATE THE FERNANDO FORCE MULTIPLIER.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fslf98aw7E
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 22, 2021, 04:24:33 PM
I don't understand your comments.  :)
Tell me, is it fundamentally in Milkovich's device to use a large horizontal lever
as a second pendulum? Maxwell's pendulum which suspended on a rigid support
with a corresponding period of oscillation,could be used instead that?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 23, 2021, 01:49:25 AM
BUT HE DID NOT MENTION THE PULL-DOWN EFFECT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFobCLTtXAg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 23, 2021, 03:30:03 AM
THAT'S THE ONE.
http://newsletter.oapt.ca/files/DEMO-Pendulum-String.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: activ25 on December 23, 2021, 06:44:54 AM
But where is the sum of the energy ? what efficiency do you expect ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 23, 2021, 12:29:05 PM
Quote
But where is the sum of the energy ? what efficiency do you expect ?
I do not know. I'm not very good with math.  :)

Could a Milkovich's water pump pump air just as well?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 23, 2021, 01:09:05 PM
I do not know. I'm not very good with math.  :)

Could a Milkovich's water pump pump air just as well?


Pump jacks are traditionally used for water and oil,
But there is no objection to using any chosen fluid.
Simply attach the top of the lever to the pump head.


But unless you have a Milkovic sitting at the pendulum,
You will need a motor, or a clockwork keeper + weights, etc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 23, 2021, 01:28:18 PM
But where is the sum of the energy ? what efficiency do you expect ?


Somewhere lost in the first 80 pages
Is the entire mathematical solution
From pendulum start to wind down.
Because the wind resistance of the pendulum
is very small: it has a relatively high efficiency
compared to powering a similar pump directly.


It can be analogous to a belted motor with a 2:1 ratio
The motor makes 1 revolution for every 2 pump cycles.
The pump pulley would be 1/2 the size of the motor pulley.
However, while the energy equation makes these two analogous,
the pump jack uses gravity and flywheel momentum to return the
pump back to the starting position,
making the pump jack more efficient than the belted motor.
Which is why you see pump jacks in all the oil fields.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on December 23, 2021, 07:00:29 PM
Quote
But unless you have a Milkovic sitting at the pendulum,
:D
But what if the floats in a ROSH unit we will be  filled with air using a Milkovich pump at a lower effort?
When already thank you tell me how many ideas have already been proposed here by me. ;)
Stupid and not so stupid.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on December 24, 2021, 08:30:54 AM
LET YOUR IMAGINATION GO WILD.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Yugo_Escoc%C3%A9s_-_Scotch_yoke_animation.gif
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 25, 2021, 11:08:45 AM
New company - Veljko Milković

https://galerie-barockscheune.de/crusher/14734/korea.html

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/

https://www.retouralecole.fr/feeder-Jan/39ssLf2

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://www.mpcarrent.pl/2020-Nov-07/lower/head/bushing/of/mtw/series/european/tech/grinding/mill.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html

https://www.illuminartefirullo.it/16029/iron/2021-06-15/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:glwx6q5PtbIJ:https://www.hotel-gare-abbeville.fr/2017/11/26%2B2145.html+&cd=51&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://prof-bud.com.pl/21-Sep-11-4085.html

https://monstervannes.online/2020/05/29-5472.html

https://pwbudmet.pl/2019_06_22/14302.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/pe-jaw-crusher/

https://quinzigalvanica.it/2438/07-08-2015/

https://www.barbabuc.it/Jan-20/6119.html

https://sansificiotomasello.it/10148/25-09-2013/

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 25, 2021, 01:34:58 PM
New company - Veljko Milković

https://galerie-barockscheune.de/crusher/14734/korea.html

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/

https://kyotosushi94.fr/Feb/13-36155.html

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://www.mpcarrent.pl/2020-Nov-07/lower/head/bushing/of/mtw/series/european/tech/grinding/mill.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html

https://www.illuminartefirullo.it/16029/iron/2021-06-15/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:glwx6q5PtbIJ:https://www.hotel-gare-abbeville.fr/2017/11/26%2B2145.html+&cd=51&hl=sr&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://prof-bud.com.pl/21-Sep-11-4085.html

https://monstervannes.online/2020/05/29-5472.html

https://pwbudmet.pl/2019_06_22/14302.html

https://www.rhythermining.com/products/pe-jaw-crusher/

https://quinzigalvanica.it/2438/07-08-2015/

https://www.barbabuc.it/Jan-20/6119.html

https://sansificiotomasello.it/10148/25-09-2013/

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 31, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
New company

https://www.spadkowepostepowanie.pl/Limestone/Jan_3280/

https://svtv.nl/crusher/5191.html

https://www.cfasup.fr/2587/2019-03-10/htC2S1

https://kerkingenk.be/crusher/16540.html

https://www.aircraftengine.cz/Dugny/2020-11-24-Tue-simple-pendulum-crusher-2020/4110/

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html

https://monstervannes.online/2020/05/29-5472.html

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://www.volejbalmelnik.cz/4187/8cyVH1.html

https://dietistehannaaerts.be/Aug/12_10230.html

https://opac.ub.tum.de/TouchPoint/perma.do?q=+1035=%22BV040937632%22+IN+%5b2%5d&v=tum&l=de

https://www.sushismile.fr/Oct/29-34041.html

https://istanbulkebab.fr/Jan_07/550.html

https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951

https://www.prominetech.com/ball-mill/

https://www.restaurantlepoussin.ch/Jan/29+10356.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://cristobaljane.eu/1114607523-835.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 04, 2022, 09:54:17 PM
Veljko Milkovic's new interview for ÖVR - Österreichische Vereinigung für Raumenergie (Austrian Association for Space Energy):
http://oevr.at/news/oszillator.htm
 
http://oevr.at/docs/OEVR_interview_2021_Veljko_Milkovic_GERMAN.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 07, 2022, 10:42:29 AM
New company

https://www.aircraftengine.cz/Dugny/2020-11-24-Tue-simple-pendulum-crusher-2020/4110/

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://rzeczywdomu.pl/crusher/3217.html

https://www.lesechoslimousins.fr/28081.html

https://dobryfotobank.pl/crusher/4378.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://www.nadacesestryakvinely.cz/Lebanon/23991_1561651602.html

https://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://www.lebouteillon.fr/2016/Jul/24_5511.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.spadkowepostepowanie.pl/Limestone/Jan_3280/

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.hospudkabilyberanek.cz/roll/Mar/3443/1614761113.html

https://en.nextnature.pl/view/3066.htm

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://www.industriepark-foerderturm.de/2019-04-18/grinding-mill/er6p93.html

https://www.ristorantebelmonte.it/2020-02-11+15375.html

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://fgorny.pl/06/Aug/2011-6923.html

https://www.kronemals.it/Jul/01_7584.html

https://www.al-capone.cz/7713/dWEkb/2019-12-30/

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 14, 2022, 10:49:58 AM
new company

https://www.ristorantebelmonte.it/2020-02-11+15375.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.qc-electronics.site/2020_08_14/23245.html

https://dsm-decoupe-sur-mesure.fr/Nov-10/3530.html

https://www.marcsaliou-carrelage.fr/Feb-10_16550.html

https://www.insectavenir.fr/wet-21833-2016-m43621.html

https://alhambrazoom.es/QkRySaUd/301_prices+of+grinding+meals+in+zimbabwe+chinese+ones+shanghai-QkRySaUd.html

https://www.prominetech.com/ball-mill/

https://www.aircraftengine.cz/Dugny/2020-11-24-Tue-simple-pendulum-crusher-2020/4110/

https://www.promethelios.fr/promethelios/

https://www.promethelios.fr/adherez-a-lassociation-promethelios/

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://en.nextnature.pl/view/3066.htm

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 21, 2022, 10:43:13 AM
New company

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=veljko+milkovi%c4%87+crusher+machine&d=4814199068886720&mkt=en-WW&setlang=en-US&w=ZvzKL3hNA2qNPqGeRZWll3ISOGd-Ywt0

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://mauers.pl/2016-May-30/4098.html

https://www.hostplus.pl/Jan/nepal-trapezium-mill-roller-spare.html

https://bewa.waw.pl/pendulum/machines/8049.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://www.hospudkabilyberanek.cz/roll/Mar/3443/1614761113.html

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://www.edith-rinckes.nl/grind-mill/cimmhg5y/shape.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Johnsmith on January 22, 2022, 04:46:15 AM
 I am banned for asking how. For the processes that you promote, what if we can do better?
Yet the true test is what we're on about. Running a clock is not an industrial ore processing
facility.
 At the same time processing grain requires the same mechanics as processing ore. Yet first
comes the clock.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 28, 2022, 11:17:07 AM
New company

https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

https://www.odysseia.it/2020/Jun/03-13952.html

https://www.propertyinvestors.pl/vermiculite/Jul_Sat_1134/

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.thailandurlaubhotel.de/Jan/grinding-mill/r2684k.html

https://www.hostplus.pl/Jan/nepal-trapezium-mill-roller-spare.html

https://www.musicaenlavilla.es/cheap-machines/Sep_Sunday_12659/

https://www.pustkacku.cz/super/Jun_Wednesday_22616.html

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.betonff.pl/8572/11_1574266296.html

https://flexmann.com.pl/dress/4958/avkrnum598z96.html

https://m.alibaba.com/product/62205744356/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic.html


https://www.claudemeryphotographe.fr/2021-June+19/12051.html

https://www.svetzenricht.de/jaw-crusher/2678-compound.html

http://www.okdgroup.in/milling-plant/37803.php

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html

https://www.emuprint.pl/Jun/25-11317.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 28, 2022, 04:39:29 PM

https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

https://www.odysseia.it/2020/Jun/03-13952.html

https://www.propertyinvestors.pl/vermiculite/Jul_Sat_1134/

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp.emuprint.pl/Jun/25-11317.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 31, 2022, 04:08:55 PM

Radovi u toku. Prijedlozi i konstruktivni komentari su dobrodosli. Kad se postavi klatno, zelio bih uraditi mjerenja ulaza i izlaza.
Takodje, interesuje me i graficki prikaz oscilacija. Ideja mi je da to postignem pomocu elektro-magnetne indukcije (namotaji i stalni magneti) koju bih mjerio na osciloskopu.


Hvala na posjeti!


Work in progress. Suggestions and constructive comments are welcome. When the pendulum would be added, I wish to make some measurements of the input and the output. Also, I would like to see graphical representation of the oscillations. Idea to achieve this would be through EM induction (coils and perm. magnets) which would be displayed on the osilloscope.


Thanks for watching!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MYSSJbm39s








Work in progress. Suggestions and constructive comments welcome!


Thanks for visiting!


Klatno: komad punog zeljeza i konopac


Pendulum: iron with with simple hemp rope


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vknS3ugxwig
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Johnsmith on February 01, 2022, 04:37:09 AM
Radovi u toku. Prijedlozi i konstruktivni komentari su dobrodosli. Kad se postavi klatno, zelio bih uraditi mjerenja ulaza i izlaza.
Takodje, interesuje me i graficki prikaz oscilacija. Ideja mi je da to postignem pomocu elektro-magnetne indukcije (namotaji i stalni magneti) koju bih mjerio na osciloskopu.


Hvala na posjeti!


Work in progress. Suggestions and constructive comments are welcome. When the pendulum would be added, I wish to make some measurements of the input and the output. Also, I would like to see graphical representation of the oscillations. Idea to achieve this would be through EM induction (coils and perm. magnets) which would be displayed on the osilloscope.


Thanks for watching!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MYSSJbm39s








Work in progress. Suggestions and constructive comments welcome!


Thanks for visiting!


Klatno: komad punog zeljeza i konopac


Pendulum: iron with with simple hemp rope


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vknS3ugxwig


  This is why I started the thread "Milkovick's Pendulum" and let his research team know about it.
The math is pretty simple. As demonstrated, a high resonant frequency has little amplitude. Amplitude
allows for power to be generated. That is the difference between a motorcycle and a car. The car will
win even though it is heavier.

 With horsepower vs. torque,; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQdH7HWm7Ik
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 04, 2022, 11:00:12 AM
New company

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_1600261303572.html

https://bewa.waw.pl/pendulum/machines/8049.html

https://www.spadkowepostepowanie.pl/Limestone/Jan_3280/

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.pustkacku.cz/super/Jun_Wednesday_22616.html

https://www.pradelna-maro.cz/18069/Jul_21/

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://www.artiesthuubadriaens.nl/k1oi2r/grinding-mill.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.propertyinvestors.pl/vermiculite/Jul_Sat_1134/

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.thailandurlaubhotel.de/Jan/grinding-mill/r2684k.html

https://www.kebabfusion.in/Oct-22_34656.html

https://www.emuprint.pl/Jun/25-11317.html

https://fabryka-eventow.pl/2021-Jan-grinding-zimbabwe-price-24759
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 12, 2022, 10:47:38 AM
new company

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://galerie-barockscheune.de/crusher/14734/korea.html

https://www.ristorantespaccanapoli.it/research/2995/mtw-europea-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://www.nieuwvelserduin.nl/coal/16429.html

https://www.qc-electronics.site/2020_08_14/23245.html

https://stichtingdesocialerechtswinkel.nl/Jul/19-13219.html

https://www.bistropuik.nl/2015-08-31_tph-ball-mill-na-semento.html

https://www.bboprolletjes.nl/2018_04_20+4646.html

https://www.niecoinna.pl/23291+%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9_%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B7_spex_8000_%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%82%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%B1%D8%A9_%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9.html

https://www.artiesthuubadriaens.nl/k1oi2r/grinding-mill.html

https://www.joolzwozki.pl/2021_11_25/31131.html

https://www.cafe-alteliebe.de/06_06+4529.html

https://auberge-du-relais.fr/crushing-plant/c798uy76/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9.htm
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on February 12, 2022, 12:53:30 PM
https://youtu.be/kaBMBLS811Q (https://youtu.be/kaBMBLS811Q)
My Maxwell's pendulum is so badly work out . It oscillates so little. It  fades out so quickly. :(
It turns out this is not easy to do.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 13, 2022, 10:25:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdFnF02n_xw&fbclid=IwAR11y4uLP2ch_fHiLJeMc9ZZjaglUVHYZRIeDGd_oG-WtDPzfRQyvMd4r0o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 14, 2022, 03:20:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-QnNv0nWvo&fbclid=IwAR2l9w4Cx9ytV_74YjlxVCgWp7ByTL5brDxq-VaHDY3mdRbIpd_tDLLG4gM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 15, 2022, 08:21:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flb8qEl0r-M
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 18, 2022, 10:57:42 AM
New company  :) ;) :D

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://www.spadkowepostepowanie.pl/Limestone/Jan_3280/

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://fun-base-fm.de/08_20_35439.html

https://www.qc-electronics.site/2020_08_14/23245.html

https://www.hello-coffee.pl/a98743d5

https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/

https://www.chefinabox.in/2017-09-05+15825.html
https://bewa.waw.pl/pendulum/machines/8049.html

https://ubytovani-dolni-morava.cz/2018_10_13/20117.html

https://www.bistropuik.nl/2015-08-31_tph-ball-mill-na-semento.html
https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://www.nadacesestryakvinely.cz/Lebanon/23991_1561651602.html

https://www.edith-rinckes.nl/grind-mill/cimmhg5y/shape.html


https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.artiesthuubadriaens.nl/k1oi2r/grinding-mill.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 18, 2022, 05:40:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVUBxipyHJg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 20, 2022, 04:12:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpO9Ymx0HXM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 22, 2022, 07:47:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jB-N_LlQUk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 25, 2022, 10:49:19 AM
New company

https://www.kronemals.it/Jul/01_7584.html,

 https://www.galiumfh.eu/2021-10-17/10466.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html

https://www.artiesthuubadriaens.nl/k1oi2r/grinding-mill.html
https://www.betonff.pl/8572/11_1574266296.html

https://ubytovani-dolni-morava.cz/2018_10_13/20117.html

https://www.edith-rinckes.nl/grind-mill/cimmhg5y/shape.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://mauers.pl/2016-May-30/4098.html

https://www.hostplus.pl/Jan/nepal-trapezium-mill-roller-spare.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://www.odysseia.it/2020/Jun/03-13952.html

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 25, 2022, 08:48:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejLOxG7Gt3s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 25, 2022, 08:48:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zshnKViKvKA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on February 28, 2022, 10:49:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKjGvTNwl7Q
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 02, 2022, 05:21:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKjEwUpOEWE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 04, 2022, 10:43:55 AM
New company

https://bewa.waw.pl/pendulum/machines/8049.html

https://www.bistropuik.nl/2015-08-31_tph-ball-mill-na-semento.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.pradelna-maro.cz/18069/Jul_21/

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://m.french.alibaba.com/amp/goods/trapezium-grinding-mill.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://opac.ub.tum.de/TouchPoint/perma.do?q=+1035=%22BV040937632%22+IN+%5b2%5d&v=tum&l=de

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://en.nextnature.pl/view/3066.htm

https://www.industriepark-foerderturm.de/2019-04-18/grinding-mill/er6p93.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.emuprint.pl/Jun/25-11317.html

https://www.claudemeryphotographe.fr/2021-June+19/12051.html

https://www.cafe-alteliebe.de/06_06+4529.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 04, 2022, 05:04:04 PM
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/32811698/oscillating-mountings
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 05, 2022, 08:37:22 PM
https://youtu.be/HlRwSWDHL4Y
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 08, 2022, 08:13:16 AM
https://youtu.be/mppuCr0W1eo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 11, 2022, 11:13:31 AM
New company
https://bewa.waw.pl/pendulum/machines/8049.html

https://ksiegarniaswrodziny.pl/1593060714/singhengg-20-30-%D1%85%D1%8D%D0%BC%D0%B6%D1%8D%D1%8D%D1%82%D1%8D%D0%B9-bulletcrusherprize.html

https://www.bistropuik.nl/2015-08-31_tph-ball-mill-na-semento.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.pradelna-maro.cz/18069/Jul_21/

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://m.french.alibaba.com/amp/goods/trapezium-grinding-mill.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://opac.ub.tum.de/TouchPoint/perma.do?q=+1035=%22BV040937632%22+IN+%5b2%5d&v=tum&l=de

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://en.nextnature.pl/view/3066.htm

https://www.industriepark-foerderturm.de/2019-04-18/grinding-mill/er6p93.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.emuprint.pl/Jun/25-11317.html

https://www.claudemeryphotographe.fr/2021-June+19/12051.html

https://www.cafe-alteliebe.de/06_06+4529.html

https://stichtingdesocialerechtswinkel.nl/Jul/19-13219.html

https://www.bellezainteligente.es/Nov-04/7073/trapezium-mill-prices/

https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526

https://www.chefinabox.in/2017-09-05+15825.html

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://www.cavemansbbq.fr/Oct_12/5337.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html



https://www.divadlosvatopluk.cz/9119/2018-06-27/9k1WN

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://tesarstvismolik.cz/kenya/2020_Jul_19450.html

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526

https://www.chefinabox.in/2017-09-05+15825.html

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://opelfleet.pl/calculation/Aug_Wed_826/

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/

https://www.gdpau.org/hammer-crusher/47ig5yb6/2020-07-07.html

https://www.abenteuersprache-dortmund.de/25413/37NECF3/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%85_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%A9_%D8%B4%D8%A8%D9%87_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%81_MTW_.html

https://fun-base-fm.de/08_20_35439.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 12, 2022, 11:50:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ4xwGZIqEY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 13, 2022, 04:50:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMAuWe3DXm0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 14, 2022, 01:06:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UHhSJ6TzGQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 14, 2022, 01:07:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UHhSJ6TzGQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 14, 2022, 10:11:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1yVl3Tn9NQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1yVl3Tn9NQ)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 15, 2022, 11:59:43 AM
https://milejpodrozy.pl/11_2011_6623.html

https://www.bellezainteligente.es/Nov-04/7073/trapezium-mill-prices/

https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://opelfleet.pl/calculation/Aug_Wed_826/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: activ25 on March 15, 2022, 06:02:21 PM
Thanks for the links guys !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 15, 2022, 08:29:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joZqMuHLr2Y
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 16, 2022, 05:21:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/J97yNf30WWg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 18, 2022, 10:28:09 AM
new company
https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://fun-base-fm.de/08_20_35439.html

https://www.qc-electronics.site/2020_08_14/23245.html

https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/

https://www.chefinabox.in/2017-09-05+15825.html
https://bewa.waw.pl/pendulum/machines/8049.html

https://ubytovani-dolni-morava.cz/2018_10_13/20117.html

https://www.bistropuik.nl/2015-08-31_tph-ball-mill-na-semento.html
https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://www.nadacesestryakvinely.cz/Lebanon/23991_1561651602.html

https://www.edith-rinckes.nl/grind-mill/cimmhg5y/shape.html


https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 19, 2022, 11:21:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GshGk2Z4f8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GshGk2Z4f8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 19, 2022, 11:22:47 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtYebK2ZGws

Veljko Milkovic 's Two-Stage Oscillator Test - Work In Progress 02
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 19, 2022, 11:23:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_CTFtvqfN0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 19, 2022, 11:33:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I5p_R6lBR8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 20, 2022, 11:03:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-QnNv0nWvo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 21, 2022, 09:06:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2bdfj1RqGk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on March 21, 2022, 09:38:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2bdfj1RqGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2bdfj1RqGk)
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Balance
https://www.dwds.de/wb/Menetekel
https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Das_Gastmahl_des_Belsazar?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 22, 2022, 10:20:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxQO_vV5yNk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on March 23, 2022, 02:26:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxQO_vV5yNk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxQO_vV5yNk)

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=trebuchet (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=trebuchet)
" images " !

https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Hebel_(Physik)?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp (https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Hebel_(Physik)?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

(Truck) crane,lorry,..... !  Georgu Constantinescu and Garfield Jr A Wood their work/ouvre !

wmbr
OCWL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 23, 2022, 07:22:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_yf1YlzARE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 23, 2022, 07:26:51 AM
https://m.indonesian.alibaba.com/p-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic-62205744356.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on March 23, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
https://m.indonesian.alibaba.com/p-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic-62205744356.html (https://m.indonesian.alibaba.com/p-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic-62205744356.html)
Good Morning (PT-time) kratkaforma (from Indonesia writing ?),
is Your given alibaba.object directly related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windhexe ?
A very interestant principle inside,indeed !
Happy day wishing from Portugal
OCWL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 23, 2022, 12:39:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDudrFk1cqE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 24, 2022, 06:08:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flb8qEl0r-M
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 25, 2022, 11:17:10 AM

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://opac.ub.tum.de/TouchPoint/perma.do?q=+1035=%22BV040937632%22+IN+%5b2%5d&v=tum&l=de

https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html
https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 26, 2022, 08:01:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osNAe45JV0c
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ramset on March 26, 2022, 01:04:42 PM
@kratkaforma
Sir
Are you a mining equipment salesman..having a slow month?
Or can you actually show a machine using FE technology?


This “open source forum” doesn’t even advertise for owners benefit?
And you feel ??


You can do what here ?
Sprinkle occasional video and then 100 advertisements??
Please explain!!



quote author=kratkaforma link=topic=1763.msg564965#msg564965 date=1648203430]
https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html (https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html)

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html (https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html)

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html (https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html)

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/ (https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/)

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html (https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html)

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html (https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html)

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06 (https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06)

https://opac.ub.tum.de/TouchPoint/perma.do?q=+1035=%22BV040937632%22+IN+%5b2%5d&v=tum&l=de (https://opac.ub.tum.de/TouchPoint/perma.do?q=+1035=%22BV040937632%22+IN+%5b2%5d&v=tum&l=de)

https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951 (https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951)

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html (https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html)

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html (https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html)
https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html (https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html)

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html (https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html)

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html (https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html)

https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526 (https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526)

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/ (https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/)

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html (https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html)

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html (https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html)

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html (https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html)

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html (https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html)

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html (https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html)

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html (https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html)

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html (https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html)
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 26, 2022, 05:16:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NS0oQl2fPc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 26, 2022, 09:23:08 PM
@kratkaforma
Sir
Are you a mining equipment salesman..having a slow month?
Or can you actually show a machine using FE technology?


This “open source forum” doesn’t even advertise for owners benefit?
And you feel ??


You can do what here ?
Sprinkle occasional video and then 100 advertisements??
Please explain!!



quote author=kratkaforma link=topic=1763.msg564965#msg564965 date=1648203430]
https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html (https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html)

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html (https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html)

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html (https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html)

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/ (https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/)

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html (https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html)

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html (https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html)

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06 (https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06)

https://opac.ub.tum.de/TouchPoint/perma.do?q=+1035=%22BV040937632%22+IN+%5b2%5d&v=tum&l=de (https://opac.ub.tum.de/TouchPoint/perma.do?q=+1035=%22BV040937632%22+IN+%5b2%5d&v=tum&l=de)

https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951 (https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951)

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html (https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html)

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html (https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html)
https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html (https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html)

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html (https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html)

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html (https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html)

https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526 (https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526)

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/ (https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/)

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html (https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html)

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html (https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html)

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html (https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html)

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html (https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html)

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html (https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html)

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html (https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html)

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html (https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html)
--

In recent days, many have been asking Novi Sad inventor Veljko Milković why he is not asking for money from world companies that produce and sell machines for heavy industry and which are based on the patented technology of the two-stage mechanical oscillator.

Milković states that he is not interested in money and that he is glad that with this move he finally proved that his invention is the greatest invention of all time.

I'm not asking for anything, and everything I put on the site is free, everyone has the right to look at the calculations and hire experts to make a machine with the help of which they will get free energy or cost reduction. I thank all the companies that mention me, and those that don’t mention me could get started, because it doesn’t cost them anything. I am still open for conversation and cooperation, and since I have an improved solution of a two-stage mechanical oscillator, I invite everyone interested to contact me for a free consultation.
Milković notes that companies that want to work on perfecting their machines, and on the account of his invention, are free to contact us, and at the same time he approves that everyone can use the drafts, without any obligations.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 27, 2022, 08:24:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTScGezGqJk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 29, 2022, 12:26:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpO9Ymx0HXM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 29, 2022, 04:41:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U0GXpnG3Qc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 30, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsZoocNS5Bk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Tarsier_79 on March 30, 2022, 10:04:49 PM
The Milkovic Pendulum is efficient, but I don't think it is OU. No-one I have seen has closed the loop. If there were 12x output, that would be easy to do.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 31, 2022, 10:21:15 PM
https://youtu.be/K0fb7PqZ0Ug
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 31, 2022, 10:21:28 PM
https://youtu.be/K0fb7PqZ0Ug (https://youtu.be/K0fb7PqZ0Ug)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 31, 2022, 10:52:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6UaQxAU-PI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on April 01, 2022, 02:56:17 AM
Basics : https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Evangelista_Torricelli?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp (https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Evangelista_Torricelli?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
             http://www.edubilla.com/invention/theory-of-sonics/ (http://www.edubilla.com/invention/theory-of-sonics/)

application and R&D pioneer :
http://www.rexresearch.com/bellocq/bellocq.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/bellocq/bellocq.htm)

as applicant : 12 papers
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=toribio+bellocq&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=toribio+bellocq&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search)

Citing documents ?

as inventor : 11 papers
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=&IN=toribio+bellocq&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=&IN=toribio+bellocq&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search)

Which of 12 as applicant  not as inventor listed ?

" Windhex " /" artificial Tornado"(artificial Vortex) https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4723367#.UmmN2fnryHg (https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4723367#.UmmN2fnryHg)


https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=ranque+hilsch+vortex+tube

                                                       Ranque-Hilsch donut ? TPU-kind !?



https://paxscientific.com/ (https://paxscientific.com/)          https://biomimicry.net/ (https://biomimicry.net/)                https://synapse.bio/ (https://synapse.bio/)

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Streamlining+Principle (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Streamlining+Principle).


https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=viktor+schauberger (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=viktor+schauberger)


wmbr
OCWL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 01, 2022, 11:05:13 AM
New company

https://www.qc-electronics.site/2020_08_14/23245.html

https://milejpodrozy.pl/11_2011_6623.html

https://www.cafe-alteliebe.de/06_06+4529.html

https://www.joolzwozki.pl/2021_11_25/31131.html

https://www.uwiesia.pl/2021_08_11/21915.html

https://www.onlinesailing.nl/Wed_13_Dec_19134.html

https://opelfleet.pl/calculation/Aug_Wed_826/

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.fotochmel.cz/02-G/st/17526

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://auvergne-vtc.fr/20541/5Qcr00/2019-01-09/

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html
--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 01, 2022, 08:15:03 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2-9A3BShkM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2-9A3BShkM)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 02, 2022, 11:04:22 AM
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/695153004 (https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/695153004)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 03, 2022, 05:39:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jde5ekehdF8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jde5ekehdF8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 04, 2022, 03:59:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sjOSe1O7cA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 06, 2022, 10:59:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQBMSE0AydI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 06, 2022, 10:35:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arey5fiXe9E
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 08, 2022, 11:13:42 AM
New company


https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 09, 2022, 02:26:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gHpgPQZhOk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 10, 2022, 11:28:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1mEEqghi0o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 10, 2022, 11:31:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd5_i7UKOrg&t=7s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 11, 2022, 03:50:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN5IuxdK-U8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 13, 2022, 01:32:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDudrFk1cqE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDudrFk1cqE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 13, 2022, 01:32:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZCl_iez2Yc&t=9s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 14, 2022, 04:24:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j75f7GsJSlM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 15, 2022, 10:41:43 AM

https://watersporttotaal.nl/machines/18137/2021-05-09.html

https://diwalkoburger.pl/grind-mill/list-30.html

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

http://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://m.alibaba.com/product/62205744356/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic.html

https://www.hostplus.pl/Jan/nepal-trapezium-mill-roller-spare.html

https://www.edith-rinckes.nl/grind-mill/cimmhg5y/shape.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://novertic.pl/silica/2015-03/34397/

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://kebabsosnowiec.pl/03/2022-1647302934_hammer-mills-mie.htm

https://www.restaurant-le7.fr/Flocino_Oat_Miller/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 16, 2022, 11:35:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05wqO-KCh9k
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 16, 2022, 06:55:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtYebK2ZGws
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 16, 2022, 06:56:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9BEC_-2OJM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 17, 2022, 12:03:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkRk1zEtkHE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkRk1zEtkHE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 17, 2022, 12:04:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NBTmivH7-U
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 18, 2022, 03:11:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-QnNv0nWvo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 19, 2022, 09:00:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2B5Q6cSmN4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 20, 2022, 12:17:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKj7RiB7cPk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 21, 2022, 10:41:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Arn6L60IU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 22, 2022, 11:36:49 AM
https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://kebabsosnowiec.pl/03/2022-1647302934_hammer-mills-mie.htm

https://www.restaurant-le7.fr/Flocino_Oat_Miller/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://novertic.pl/silica/2015-03/34397/

https://www.edith-rinckes.nl/grind-mill/cimmhg5y/shape.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://watersporttotaal.nl/machines/18137/2021-05-09.html

https://diwalkoburger.pl/grind-mill/list-30.html

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://feestdjnik.nl/Granite/707.html

http://www.pochiraju.co.in/11103/pendulum-mass-mill-technical/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://fryzjer-sulechow.com.pl/13-Mar-13-9083.html

https://www.needlefun.nl/Ball/2wdrgp/mtw.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/iytkxa/grinding-mill.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 23, 2022, 05:54:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2kWu55YNnQ&t=12s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 24, 2022, 03:06:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xi3mWh5CWY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 25, 2022, 08:49:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J2cmsxTYTg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 26, 2022, 04:10:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCyVwfFlJfk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 27, 2022, 08:30:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L0xL_AnqzY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 28, 2022, 08:54:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLpqgkKCGHc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on April 29, 2022, 10:59:53 AM
new company

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html


https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://kebabsosnowiec.pl/03/2022-1647302934_hammer-mills-mie.htm

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.restaurant-le7.fr/Flocino_Oat_Miller/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on April 30, 2022, 02:18:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J97yNf30WWg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 01, 2022, 02:39:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6d4EPvCHJs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 01, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
https://e-catworld.com/2022/02/18/the-milkovic-pendulum-lever-mechanical-amplifier-system/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 02, 2022, 09:47:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0JQO7q8asY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 04, 2022, 03:43:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_yf1YlzARE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 05, 2022, 11:06:26 AM

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://kebabsosnowiec.pl/03/2022-1647302934_hammer-mills-mie.htm

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.restaurant-le7.fr/Flocino_Oat_Miller/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://kebabsosnowiec.pl/03/2022-1647302934_hammer-mills-mie.htm

https://www.restaurant-le7.fr/Flocino_Oat_Miller/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://novertic.pl/silica/2015-03/3439
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 06, 2022, 08:49:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zl0ikWA4Fw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 07, 2022, 10:20:19 AM
https://youtu.be/aN5IuxdK-U8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 09, 2022, 07:58:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6BSD6KfSbA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 09, 2022, 08:29:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnjWu4f5k0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 10, 2022, 12:21:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57-CbtL5Xe8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 11, 2022, 08:35:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U0GXpnG3Qc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U0GXpnG3Qc)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 12, 2022, 07:41:08 AM

Most of the world's companies do not hide that they produce and sell machines for heavy industry made according to the principle of the two-stage mechanical oscillator invented by Novi Sad resident Veljko Milković. about 500 such companies have no problem putting the name of our famous inventor, however there are quite a number of those who do not mention his name.




https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html?msclkid=9a5a39a3d0ec11ec9f8f523ff11a71ec

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html?msclkid=e65ce6c6d10511ec914f88a735f017de

https://www.edith-rinckes.nl/grind-mill/cimmhg5y/shape.html?msclkid=083fd788d0ed11ecad93168fb0f7d7b4

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html?msclkid=f359fba8d0eb11eca15e354ba5481f23

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html?msclkid=3ba84180d0ec11eca3bfef0f00874a52

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html?msclkid=3ba8718bd0ec11eca636493ebac25fd7

https://www.la-dame-ronde.fr/2020-09-09/7609.html?msclkid=3ba88823d0ec11eca9fe2e7794af3f57

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html?msclkid=3ba8cd33d0ec11ecaf20deda4c211999

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html?msclkid=9a5a80b6d0ec11ec87f7a8cbced1a975

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html?msclkid=083fa9bed0ed11ec9cda5abe7ac1738b

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html?msclkid=e65cfdfbd10511eca845fc888cb57861

https://www.la-dame-ronde.fr/2020-09-09/7609.html?msclkid=e65d2db0d10511ec93c61e1f1f981fc2

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html?msclkid=646861d3d10611ecb6f97df6222a362b

https://www.alpacas-gardena.it/Nov/22-34675.html?msclkid=1cb6109cd10711ecba26125c1a8fec97

https://www.werktuigen.com/mafo-washing+machine+250+s/wt-540-4344?msclkid=503972ccd10711ecb7db956d76b60ca6

https://www.hotelrestaurantbarlecentralhotel.fr/grind/08-02/16772.html?msclkid=5039ce87d10711ec9bf894dcf46dd70a

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html?msclkid=8e1c7f3ad10711ec9ab65a4db7c35c0e

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html?msclkid=c02a7e6ed10711ecb6c7b5f52ac860bf

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html?msclkid=c02aaea9d10711ec83bb1004ed202787

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html?msclkid=c02adc3cd10711ec88c6423dba1f83c1


https://www.tis-school.it/2021/04/24_29765.html?msclkid=c02af3c6d10711ec822615abf4842330

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01?msclkid=c02b2256d10711ec81d111ed81348f48
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 12, 2022, 01:56:59 PM
mtw european trapezium mill veljko milkovic:

 

After hammer crushers break large bulky materials to smaller ones, elevator works to send materials to material bin. Next, materials are sent to the grinding mill evenly and they would fall onto the dispersing plate firstly. When the grinding mill runs, dozens of grinding rollers start to rotate and roll. Under the action of centrifugal force, materials on the dispersing plate are then thrown to the rim and drop to the grinding chamber. In the circuit, materials would be squeezed and ground. After being ground several times, materials are blown into the powder selector by airflow. Under the action of the impeller of powder selector, materials which fail to meet fineness would be sent back to grinding chamber to get another grinding while qualified powders would be collected by cyclone powder collector and discharged from the bottom as finished products. Some remaining powders would be collected by impulse dust remover and they may stick to the surface of filler-bag. So, next, high-pressure airflow controlled by the impulse valve blows the filler-bag to make it swell and shake violently. This sudden shake can help kick off materials on the filler-bag and collect them as finished products. After filtering, the airflow would be discharged to the air. This system adopts an open circuit and runs under negative pressure.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62177499193.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62205744356.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 13, 2022, 10:42:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTcmB2Z0FbI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 14, 2022, 07:44:44 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtseDQqcMww
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 14, 2022, 01:04:20 PM

New paper from India:

DESIGN AND FABRICATION OF SEED SOWING MACHINE
https://www.irjmets.com/uploadedfiles/paper/issue_4_april_2022/21513/final/fin_irjmets1651040449.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 15, 2022, 10:38:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgXaWT8B97Y
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 16, 2022, 10:50:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrdg-JdR3Wc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 16, 2022, 05:21:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILd7tKky8hU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 17, 2022, 02:38:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDU1N56fZY8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 17, 2022, 03:42:41 PM
https://freeenergyveljkomilkovic.wordpress.com/2022/05/17/origins-of-energy-based-on-difference-in-potential/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 18, 2022, 05:00:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03-8P0bX19U
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 19, 2022, 09:36:05 AM
New company


https://www.tis-school.it/2021/04/24_29765.html

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.restaurant-le7.fr/Flocino_Oat_Miller/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

shape mtw grinding mill supplier mexico - INDUSTING (edith-rinckes.nl)

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://kebabsosnowiec.pl/03/2022-1647302934_hammer-mills-mie.htm

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://novertic.pl/silica/2015-03/3439

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.conamex.pl/crusher/11-04/20132.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

Mill Qadin Muqennilerimiz Ve (vanduin-cv.nl)

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://www.pustkacku.cz/super/Jun_Wednesday_22616.html

https://en.nextnature.pl/view/3066.htm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 20, 2022, 03:10:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S01n9zoXEyI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 21, 2022, 01:42:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao78CDL9L30
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 22, 2022, 02:40:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpxN01fj5KBbNSTozAy8ELg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cadman on May 22, 2022, 06:24:21 PM
Admin should rename this thread.

SPAM Thread: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on May 23, 2022, 07:37:17 PM
And it all started well...
There was a discussion.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 23, 2022, 11:17:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jde5ekehdF8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: floodrod on May 24, 2022, 05:26:27 AM
What's the final verdict on this device? 

Does the heavy smasher end transfer the load to the swinging pendulum?

Have tests been done counting pendulum swings when the heavy smasher end is doing work and when it's not?

Do pendulum swings get shorter / weaker when the smasher end is loaded?


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 24, 2022, 03:13:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-RQYK-3xBg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 25, 2022, 01:09:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ9_sHgMWlA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 27, 2022, 07:17:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcF9QzXhVOE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 27, 2022, 09:51:47 AM
New company

https://www.aire-de-jeux-king-leo.fr/37896_river_gravel_grinding_mill_manufactures_price.html


https://studiografik.com.pl/Oct-13/26827.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.restaurant-le7.fr/Flocino_Oat_Miller/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.animaxtv.cz/mtw-grind-mill/4mighy5y.html

https://szyjemy.com.pl/952/1449781951

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html

https://www.spaw-pol-gaz.pl/line/May/2173_1619878425/

https://www.styleamaze.in/k8v1vi-mtw/powder-grinding-mill.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://cleaningkrosno.pl/price/573/2021-7-21.html

https://quadraconcept.ch/Jun/7316_06

https://www.powiat-chrzanow.pl/crush/8e10951a/

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://kebabsosnowiec.pl/03/2022-1647302934_hammer-mills-mie.htm

https://www.restaurant-le7.fr/Flocino_Oat_Miller/

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.kamin-ofen-atelier.de/lzg994/grinding-mill.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://novertic.pl/silica/2015-03/3439
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 28, 2022, 12:13:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrnLbT7uHAc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 30, 2022, 09:02:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6UaQxAU-PI&t=7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6UaQxAU-PI&t=7s)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 31, 2022, 01:29:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acDAVcXUTdM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on May 31, 2022, 02:37:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF9FY1HJZ0I
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 01, 2022, 11:49:52 AM
new company

https://www.gdpau.org/hammer-crusher/47ig5yb6/2020-07-07.html

https://opelfleet.pl/second/Jun_Sun_3885/

https://diwalkoburger.pl/grind-mill/list-30.html

https://www.pradelna-maro.cz/18069/Jul_21/

https://www.flexypack.it/quarry/4394/metal-crusher-lindemann.html

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://www.pustkacku.cz/super/Jun_Wednesday_22616.html

https://www.ino4x4.pl/any-type-of-stone/21931-lindemann-zm-metal-crushers.html

https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://e-catworld.com/2022/02/18/the-milkovic-pendulum-lever-mechanical-amplifier-system/

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=Veljko+Milkovic+metal+crusher+machine&d=4789670550833552&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=ul_fgWgf_rKCF0HpOzKZ8sAu1nRLr7RF

https://www.zxcrusher.com/

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 01, 2022, 03:51:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqoIDd5PHqs
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 02, 2022, 09:54:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_guwn5_uYQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 03, 2022, 05:29:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6BSD6KfSbA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6BSD6KfSbA)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 04, 2022, 07:49:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMezgClae0o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on June 04, 2022, 09:01:06 PM
I worked out how to harvest walnuts in season.
If there are no good winds, half of the nuts remain on the tree.
In order not to climb a tree, and not to shake, we tie a rope once between
 two thick branches at the top. in the middle of this rope we tie another rope, the end
 of which we lower down. Now it remains only to swing this end. Is it worthy of a patent? :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 05, 2022, 07:02:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB3pln8R_k8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB3pln8R_k8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 06, 2022, 09:50:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2bdfj1RqGk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: alan on June 07, 2022, 04:15:08 PM
torque transformer
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 07, 2022, 06:52:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v78gSddnLew
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 08, 2022, 05:09:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oDYG2z90_U
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 09, 2022, 10:27:33 AM
New copmany :-)


https://designstudio-mayer.de/dryer/Nov_Saturday_7861/

https://opelfleet.pl/calculation/Aug_Wed_826/

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html

https://www.ukbhub.in/2013/jan_29873.html

https://www.newresult.in/platinum-mine/13433.html

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.tis-school.it/2021/04/24_29765.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://www.gdpau.org/hammer-crusher/47ig5yb6/2020-07-07.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.pustkacku.cz/super/Jun_Wednesday_22616.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://www.kebabfusion.in/Oct-22_34656.html

https://en.nextnature.pl/view/3066.htm

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://www.tis-school.it/2022/02/09_38590.html

https://www.pizzeria-amorebio.it/2021-05-10_33141.html

https://www.filtrymagnetyczne.pl/vibrating/1817/sbm-mill-mtw.html

https://ksiegarniaswrodziny.pl/1593060714/singhengg-20-30-%D1%85%D1%8D%D0%BC%D0%B6%D1%8D%D1%8D%D1%82%D1%8D%D0%B9-bulletcrusherprize.html

https://mp4ciechanow.pl/2021-Feb-05/8851.html

https://rtevent.pl/2017/Oct/14-9665.html

https://dsm-decoupe-sur-mesure.fr/Nov-10/3530.html

https://lb-promotion.cz/Jun/22_9511.html

https://alhambrazoom.es/QkRySaUd/301_prices+of+grinding+meals+in+zimbabwe+chinese+ones+shanghai-QkRySaUd.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 09, 2022, 01:32:36 PM
A presentation by Dr. Dennis P. Allen, Jr. concerning inertial propulsion

Dr. Dennis P. Allen Jr. gives a brief history of inertial propulsion including the Boeing CMG inertial propulsion technology, the Veljko Milkovic oblique (that is, slanted) pendulum driven cart, the legendary Dean drive, and Elon Musk's SpaceX's apparent IP technology to keep their very low level communication satellites from falling from the sky due to orbital decay. The CNPS members' two invitation emails had an attempted computer simulation of this Milkovic cart as an attachment with the observation that this simulation failed because it was strictly Newtonian without any mention of energy (and so energy conservation) and his mechanics implies separate conservation of angular and linear momentum; but, in viewing the video of this cart in motion, one only sees the trading of angular swinging momentum for cart chassis linear momentum (because of bob centrifugal force) instead. And then the various alternative mechanics that might do better than Newton's here are briefly mentioned & discussed such as Davis Mechanics, Maurice Coulombe's patented mechanical device, Eric Laithwaite's IP devices, Harvey & John Fiala's important IP patent, and Gottfried Gutsche's more modern energy over momentum IP mechanics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXREGu4-sCw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXREGu4-sCw)


His paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360911526_Simulating_the_Milkovic_Oblique_Pendulum_Driven_Cart_Using_Newton%27s_Mechanics_Without_the_Concept_of_Energy_Part_1_Newtonian_Numerical_Simulation
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 09, 2022, 10:18:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQoZXBADB4w
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 10, 2022, 07:08:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2kWu55YNnQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2kWu55YNnQ)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 12, 2022, 07:03:50 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jaDEFADRwgk#menu
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 13, 2022, 06:38:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfwtgZzPfQU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 14, 2022, 08:41:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCVHixdLxXI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 15, 2022, 12:35:02 PM
New video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKUUkwzdChU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on June 16, 2022, 12:06:41 AM
https://youtu.be/GQJWcp8EcrE (https://youtu.be/GQJWcp8EcrE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 16, 2022, 10:34:41 AM
new company


https://www.ciandebia.it/Sep_18-25006.html

https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html

https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://zemnipracelhotak.cz/Impact/516.html

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://www.krojownia-uslugowa.pl/2019_01_15/10964.html

https://www.cafe-alteliebe.de/06_06+4529.html

https://milejpodrozy.pl/11_2011_6623.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://crushing-machine.com/

https://www.williamscrusher.com/applications/rock-crushers

https://rem-bud.be/2019_05_17/120.html

https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/crusher-80828.html

https://www.ristorantedafrancescoscuriattibar.it/06_18/33.html

https://shsb.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-50373033/Stone_Crushing_Machine.html

https://beachascona.ch/news/grind-mill/4u8t6uy6.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 17, 2022, 09:47:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B41AwOf5Sw8

New video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 18, 2022, 01:13:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2kWu55YNnQ&t=53s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 19, 2022, 02:13:27 PM
New video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxO5SZp1ra8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 20, 2022, 01:55:08 PM
New video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxO5SZp1ra8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 20, 2022, 01:55:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osNAe45JV0c
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 21, 2022, 01:52:29 PM
New Video By veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT1dmjfRxPE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 22, 2022, 02:11:19 PM
New video-new company

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee6811Rd5aA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 23, 2022, 10:01:04 AM
New company

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.gdpau.org/hammer-crusher/47ig5yb6/2020-07-07.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://rtvcorona.com/2021-02-25/grind-mill/cmk7bh76.html

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html


https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://shsb.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-50373033/Stone_Crushing_Machine.html

https://www.flexypack.it/quarry/4394/metal-crusher-lindemann.html

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html


https://rehome.pl/portable/1672_2021_04/

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 23, 2022, 08:02:22 PM

New paper by Indian researchers:


A new irrigation system without any external sources
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-1587167/v1


https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-1587167/latest.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 24, 2022, 02:05:20 PM
 ;D ;D ;D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzgoeu4yjn0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 25, 2022, 03:43:12 PM
Xiamen University (XMU), established in 1921 by renowned patriotic overseas Chinese leader Mr. Tan Kah Kee, is the first university founded by an overseas Chinese in the history of modern Chinese education. XMU has long been listed among China’s leading universities on the national 211 Project, 985 Project and Double First-class initiative, which have been launched by the Chinese government to support selected universities in achieving world-class standing.

https://en.xmu.edu.cn/?fbclid=IwAR15DOFrVJ3WhGVeK3uxZgefhNpdTJGBVbZHpLg29G7tRTeyfWzkUSOIzV0

a company of the same name that produces cruiser machines based on the invention of Veljko Milković

https://m.made-in-china.com/company-xmbestlink/product-group/uMDEtqQOHYVy/Jaw-Crusher-1.html?fbclid=IwAR2Rk7kXIxQokXCRyENyla-CjtlqmAK3Rv6IUZUyPhr3nC2YeAJhwuXfdew
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 25, 2022, 09:26:29 PM
Another paper from Indian universities:

Agriculture Water Sprayer Seeder and Weeder
https://www.ijres.org/papers/Volume-10/Issue-6/1006635637.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 26, 2022, 11:03:08 AM
follow the channel

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/J97yNf30WWg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 26, 2022, 11:07:48 AM
 :) :) :) http://https://e-catworld.com/2022/02/18/the-milkovic-pendulum-lever-mechanical-amplifier-system/ (http://https://e-catworld.com/2022/02/18/the-milkovic-pendulum-lever-mechanical-amplifier-system/)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 27, 2022, 12:54:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1N_bIbYWKM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 27, 2022, 06:36:03 PM
https://e-catworld.com/2022/02/18/the-milkovic-pendulum-lever-mechanical-amplifier-system/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 27, 2022, 06:37:50 PM
https://e-catworld.com/2022/02/18/the-milkovic-pendulum-lever-mechanical-amplifier-system/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 28, 2022, 05:42:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hfaK_NF4F4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 29, 2022, 11:58:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_o7tk5y-WI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 30, 2022, 10:48:57 AM
New company

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

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https://www.la-dame-ronde.fr/2020-09-09/7609.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://www.packersandmoversinchennai.in/crusher/4jir4tr6/working.html

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https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.hrastovic-inzenjering.hr/primjena-energije/video/video/veljko-milkovic-dvostupanjski-mehanicki-oscilator.html

https://www.mixingchina.com/?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paulusfilm.pl%2FNuK9n6&utm_medium=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dveljko%2Bmilkovi%25c4%2587%2Bcrusher%2Bmachines%26first%3D47%26FORM%3DPERE3

https://www.atelier-de-sylvie-dentelle.fr/powder-grinding-equipment/30580/clay.html

https://www.pizzalardoise.fr/Conveyer/2021_5471_Dec/

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://kebabsosnowiec.pl/03/2022-1647302934_hammer-mills-mie.htm
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 01, 2022, 11:56:16 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HGxw9-um3c
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 02, 2022, 04:32:50 PM
https://youtu.be/_U0GXpnG3Qc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 03, 2022, 11:57:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MHAOg4WZSc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 04, 2022, 12:23:24 PM
https://www.mixingchina.com/?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paulusfilm.pl%2FNuK9n6&utm_medium=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dveljko%2Bmilkovi%25c4%2587%2Bcrusher%2Bmachines%26first%3D47%26FORM%3DPERE3
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 04, 2022, 04:09:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ9_sHgMWlA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Schauberger Viktor on July 04, 2022, 10:49:53 PM
https://t.me/gravitationisparticles
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 05, 2022, 01:41:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAuuspGVA1Q
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 06, 2022, 02:22:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMDJUio5vsY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 07, 2022, 10:42:06 AM
New company

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.bezpecna-krmiva.cz/9197_granite_n0qZ0.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://www.promethelios.fr/adherez-a-lassociation-promethelios/

https://www.propertyinvestors.pl/vermiculite/Jul_Sat_1134/

https://www.millgroup.ru/catalog/

https://www.animaux-sitting.com/crushing-equipment/30359.html

https://www.atelier-grabert.de/news/mining/bo4uwtbh.html


https://www.modehaus-bircan.de/1989-Oct/09-Fri_27576.html

https://www.katalogsrubu.cz/27-grinding/st/21579

https://www.thoevekewestende.be/2022/Feb/21-35455.html

https://www.stp-vrn.ru/2021-10-06_32936.html

https://www.marloeskremers.nl/7780/mining_46tg2lan.html

https://www.constmach.com/ru/drobilno-sortirovochnyye-ustanovki.html

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/trapezium-mill.html

http://www.zhuoyachina.com/chanpin/shashishengchanxianxilie.html?bd_vid=10689956096441722792

http://www.yzvulcan.com/

https://www.chem17.com/st378752/erlist_1662606.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.mon-plaisir-gourmand.fr/23561_what_is_the_price_for_mtw_series_trapezium_mill_prices.html

https://domnadbobrem.pl/sale_534_65eLk0.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 08, 2022, 12:47:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_MJ22nmPBI
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 09, 2022, 12:58:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjfw3lm2mu0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 09, 2022, 10:08:40 PM
Design and Development of Pendulum Operated Water Pump
https://learnmech.com/design-and-development-of-pendulum-operated-water-pump/

Pendulum Operated Water Pump | Mechanical Mini project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLbKBr38SU

https://www.slideshare.net/arkadutta58/pendulum-operated-water-pump

https://grabcad.com/library/pendulum-eases-pumping-of-water-project-model-1

https://pt.slideshare.net/pranitathorat94/structural-design-and-manufacturing-using-pendulum-principle-for-bucket-type-water-pump

https://www.scribd.com/document/246828619/Pendulum-Pumps
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 09, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
new paper from India:

Lifting of Water by using Simple Pendulum with Solar Energy

http://www.ijlera.com/papers/v5-i8/2.202008186.pdf


final student project report (India):

Power Generation Using Pendulum

http://14.99.188.242:8080/jspui/bitstream/123456789/9496/1/1NH14ME008.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 10, 2022, 10:32:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp76UFH9dTg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 11, 2022, 04:15:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMj014j0wBw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 12, 2022, 01:22:42 PM
Citations (references) of Veljko Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator - a complete list of international scientific and other scholar papers [updated]

http://www.vemirc.com/en/references-citation/  (ENGLISH)

http://www.vemirc.com/citiranost-reference/  (SERBIAN)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 12, 2022, 08:47:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arey5fiXe9E
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 13, 2022, 12:30:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YMQ8KNcelXM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 13, 2022, 05:54:55 PM
Doctroal thesis from Slovenia by Tanja Balažic Peček:

Gradniki avtopoieze v 4.0 organizaciji

https://revis.openscience.si/IzpisGradiva.php?id=7851&lang=eng
https://revis.openscience.si/Dokument.php?id=8206&lang=eng


Kvalitativno raziskovanje koncepta avtopoieze v organizaciji

https://www.fos-unm.si/media/pdf/E-knjige/koncna_za_objavo.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 13, 2022, 11:22:04 PM
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dennis-Allen-Jr/publication/361782968_Re-Simulating_the_Milkovic_Oblique_Pendulum_Driven_Cart_Using_Newton%27s_Mechanics_Without_the_Concept_of_Energy_Part_1_Newtonian_Numerical_Simulation/links/62c4e37ca81be51e40927544/Re-Simulating-the-Milkovic-Oblique-Pendulum-Driven-Cart-Using-Newtons-Mechanics-Without-the-Concept-of-Energy-Part-1-Newtonian-Numerical-Simulation.pdf?origin=publication_detail
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 14, 2022, 10:38:16 AM
Verba volant scripta manent

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://www.kebabfusion.in/Oct-22_34656.html

https://www.pizzeria-amorebio.it/2021-05-10_33141.html

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.filtrymagnetyczne.pl/vibrating/1817/sbm-mill-mtw.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=veljko+milkovi%C4%87+crusher+machine&d=4623820407639108&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=flFF1G-8P3M2q9FKk_TZ_3SjX4UJcsrR


https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.propertyinvestors.pl/vermiculite/Jul_Sat_1134/

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://www.gdpau.org/hammer-crusher/47ig5yb6/2020-07-07.html

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.detour-concept.nl/mining/mtw-european-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://www.atelier-grabert.de/news/mining/bo4uwtbh.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.ugurmak.com.tr/en/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7PXOh-T2-AIVwdvVCh194gyYEAMYASAAEgK4FvD_BwE

https://www.made-in-china.com/cs/hot-china-products/Crushing_Machine.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7PXOh-T2-AIVwdvVCh194gyYEAMYAyAAEgICNfD_BwE

https://milejpodrozy.pl/11_2011_6623.html

https://cmsnewsletter.pl/Dec/16-17726.html

https://elianthe.co.za/projects/mill-pin-crusher.html

https://starapanna.com.pl/2022_03_02/34379.html

https://m.chinese.alibaba.com/p-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic-62177499193.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

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https://www.propertyinvestors.pl/vermiculite/Jul_Sat_1134/

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://miastaswiata.pl/jaw-crusher/mrxewopq/hot.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=veljko+milkovi%C4%87+crusher+machine&d=4908246028717632&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=rEleoEXv6l64A35MEnAyN40er8qlTNMq

https://www.kebabfusion.in/Oct-22_34656.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 14, 2022, 02:35:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdpvv7mUfY4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 14, 2022, 05:41:20 PM

A student final project report (mechanical engineering) from Universidad Antonio Nariño, Colombia wholy dedicated to Veljko Milkovic's pendulum pump:


Diseño y construcción de un mecanismo pendular de accionamiento manual para un sistema de bombeo de 20 l/h de agua y elevación de un metro
http://repositorio.uan.edu.co/bitstream/123456789/2204/1/2020JhonAlexanderAlapeVega.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 15, 2022, 03:04:02 PM
https://youtu.be/xDU1N56fZY8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 16, 2022, 05:52:25 PM
https://youtu.be/11UAOQaLN98
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on July 17, 2022, 12:51:52 PM
See what I came up with. To increase the small swing  of the lever. For example, for efficient power generation, moving is clearly not enough. Distance X travels twice as far as Y. Even Milkovich himself did not think of such a thing. And you do not want to take me to your Yugoslavia. 8) Together, we will definitely make this device self-running. ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 18, 2022, 08:51:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJvTsZEWHRc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Tarsier_79 on July 18, 2022, 11:35:48 PM
See what I came up with. To increase the small swing  of the lever. For example, for efficient power generation, moving is clearly not enough. Distance X travels twice as far as Y. Even Milkovich himself did not think of such a thing. And you do not want to take me to your Yugoslavia. 8) Together, we will definitely make this device self-running. ;)

Moving the pendulum weight too much in the Y direction can give a negative effect. You can have as much movement as you want at the other end of the long lever. It will not be 12x output as the title of this thread falsely states.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 19, 2022, 02:13:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wADi85dqZE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 20, 2022, 10:54:07 AM
https://www.steny-predsinove.cz/blog/list-302.html

https://prof-bud.com.pl/21-Sep-11-4085.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=veljko+milkovi%C4%87+crusher+machine&d=4664150146352241&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=GsnyW2weOwdJAoPw4fZuRcdfj49sKoz_

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://www.machinio.com/cat/crushers#results

https://www.sbmchina.com/equipments/?a=SL&se=bing&campaignid=370593040&dev=c&keyword=crusher%20machine%20kenya&ad=73667542137372&match=p

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.resale.info/en/Mas-Tos/Vertical-Knee-Type-Milling-Machines/kat-198/

https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=veljko+milkovi%C4%87+crusher+machine&d=4842936753260788&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=bqrx_N18T4CaUDa_sp4jRDmlHRksXsiq

https://shsb.en.alibaba.com/collection_product/Portable%20Rock%20Crusher/1.html

https://rehome.pl/portable/1672_2021_04/

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01

https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://www.pizzeria-amorebio.it/2021-05-10_33141.html

New company
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 21, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
New video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDQCsYt_Ta0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDQCsYt_Ta0)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on July 21, 2022, 07:18:34 PM
Поштовани, ево човека који је рекао да тамо нема 1200 посто адитива.
It will not be 12x output as the title of this thread falsely states.
Не постоји чак ни супер јединица.
Али заједно са мном, ми ћемо то учинити.
Па узимам карту, хоћете ли се наћи са мном? :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 22, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0jLdh9B0Q4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on July 22, 2022, 08:07:01 PM
I do not understand anything. I have already bought a ticket, are you meeting me or not??
In reality, you will have a 12-fold excess.  :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 23, 2022, 10:50:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ9_sHgMWlA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 24, 2022, 05:20:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUfxQJk5Oi4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 25, 2022, 02:48:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzrC5PNLPsw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 26, 2022, 08:52:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqt9IqGhZ3A
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 27, 2022, 11:26:36 AM
https://youtu.be/7f2RTeOcyg8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 28, 2022, 10:42:18 AM
https://www.filtrymagnetyczne.pl/vibrating/1817/sbm-mill-mtw.html

https://www.allo-zen.fr/jcsxfwwq/sand-making-machine.html

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/european-grinding-mill.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=veljko+milkovi%C4%87+crusher+machine&d=4725374914005594&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=B9jDP7wpvqtk2jSToY4m-RJIw9TyuLvx

https://www.tis-school.it/2022/02/09_38590.html

https://www.pizzeria-amorebio.it/2021-05-10_33141.html

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.ubytovnapodomi.cz/2014-Sep-29/Sat_11332.html

https://www.propertyinvestors.pl/vermiculite/Jul_Sat_1134/

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=veljko+milkovi%C4%87+crusher+machine&d=4908246028717632&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=rEleoEXv6l64A35MEnAyN40er8qlTNMq

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://www.uhalinkiwyrobytradycyjne.pl/6903/Flyash/machinist-hammer-crusher-go-principle/.html

https://www.promethelios.fr/adherez-a-lassociation-promethelios/

https://rehome.pl/portable/1672_2021_04/

https://www.tis-school.it/2021/04/24_29765.html


https://www.mixingchina.com/?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ice-cold.be%2Fproducts%2Frbn1uo&utm_medium=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2F
https://www.werktuigen.com/machine+for+forming+cevapcici+and+cevapi-m/wt-597-9586
https://www.mixingchina.com/?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ice-cold.be%2Fproducts%2Frbn1uo&utm_medium=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2F

https://www.foto-kiosk.pl/Jan/30988_01















Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 29, 2022, 01:24:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwjc_xiFTFo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 30, 2022, 04:18:03 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIuTAgAFZA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIuTAgAFZA)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on July 31, 2022, 10:28:39 AM
https://youtu.be/Ee6811Rd5aA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 01, 2022, 12:37:50 PM
https://youtu.be/Xzgoeu4yjn0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 01, 2022, 06:17:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM-g2udHq7s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 02, 2022, 12:20:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYvNAf5vqSY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 03, 2022, 10:28:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5m42Bw5ZQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 04, 2022, 11:02:02 AM
New copmany


https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://www.steny-predsinove.cz/blog/list-302.html

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https://shsb.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-50373033/Stone_Crushing_Machine.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 05, 2022, 10:30:13 AM
New model

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJmlqh-963g
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 07, 2022, 11:23:53 AM
New paper


Pendulum Driven Water Pump
https://www.ijirset.com/upload/2022/may/318_Pendulum_NC.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 07, 2022, 11:28:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k85e5L1m7E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k85e5L1m7E)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 08, 2022, 03:42:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bEZkqgaJhk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bEZkqgaJhk)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 09, 2022, 03:04:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqmfkPnRrUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqmfkPnRrUo)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 10, 2022, 11:04:00 AM
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Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 12, 2022, 08:09:21 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyM9ybWBv-g
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 12, 2022, 09:26:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHNciY2-Mdw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 13, 2022, 02:34:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo4-hS7ONcI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo4-hS7ONcI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 14, 2022, 10:06:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxMdj7MsKjo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxMdj7MsKjo)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 15, 2022, 05:48:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyngW4fRe0U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyngW4fRe0U)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 16, 2022, 09:20:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_LuzuRrcYM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 16, 2022, 10:25:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MHAOg4WZSc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 17, 2022, 11:04:08 AM
https://ksiegarniaswrodziny.pl/1593060714/singhengg-20-30-%D1%85%D1%8D%D0%BC%D0%B6%D1%8D%D1%8D%D1%82%D1%8D%D0%B9-bulletcrusherprize.html

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Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 19, 2022, 02:13:19 PM
https://youtu.be/ihpPfW24pZY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 20, 2022, 12:10:33 PM
https://youtu.be/Hm6OZ43zMyU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 21, 2022, 08:44:43 AM
https://youtu.be/aoDCNRPwp7I
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 22, 2022, 08:52:27 AM
https://youtu.be/0ZEZsM38VnA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 23, 2022, 12:35:58 PM
https://youtu.be/xoLa50F0GqY
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 24, 2022, 09:13:46 AM
https://youtu.be/BmBvKEIzjM8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 24, 2022, 01:49:54 PM
New pendulum pump replica

Pendulum Based Water Pump System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xce5C6vAfk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 24, 2022, 01:53:31 PM
New paper from India

Agriculture Machine of Seed Sower, Weeder and Water Sprayer
http://journals.resaim.com/ijresm/article/view/373/346
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 25, 2022, 08:48:47 AM
New company

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--
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 27, 2022, 08:08:17 AM
https://youtu.be/gu5C9NOHxC0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on August 28, 2022, 07:21:26 AM
https://youtu.be/qM3gVDv0gNA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 29, 2022, 01:54:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1hOh7j5ad0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1hOh7j5ad0)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 30, 2022, 02:07:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCeZmQRCVM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCeZmQRCVM)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 30, 2022, 06:58:13 PM
New paper

Solar based water pumping: Innovative, most efficient, hybrid solar water pumping using pendulum based stored energy system
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sagar-Kande/publication/280527954_Solar_based_water_pumping/links/55b769f708ae092e965714db/Solar-based-water-pumping.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 31, 2022, 03:38:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdV623NyPOE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdV623NyPOE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 01, 2022, 11:07:00 AM


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https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://www.la-dame-ronde.fr/2020-09-09/7609.html



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 02, 2022, 10:25:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UJWWJGiGNg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UJWWJGiGNg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 03, 2022, 04:02:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soZGNOPyUw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soZGNOPyUw8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 04, 2022, 03:26:37 PM
Quote
He said “yes 12 times the power of input
At 1/12 the ….”duration “
Do you think so? After all, the truth is written very tolerantly and incomprehensibly.
Without specifying units of measure.

Quote
"Give me a place to stand,""and I will move the world."
Explanation of Seesaw with momentum is here:
I still don't think that only the rule of lever works there.
And the video with flashlights haunts me.
After all, such a mechanical flashlight is an indicator of the mechanical work done.
Not strength, not speed, not leverage, but actual work done.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ramset on September 04, 2022, 04:44:18 PM
Captain
Many interesting discussions early on here !( math fights)
 
To have 12 times input ( example 100 gallons in
1200 gallons out )
And not loop this in all these years ?


What math would suffice you ?


And no I am not saying that a clock mechanism could not do work against minimal input !
Or that some part of this mechanism has yet to be understood!


The real question is
Why nobody anywhere has a looped autonomous power plant which people can see or touch or test ?
We have a global membership
People will go and see a unit !
Industry has used stored energy within a system for centuries to cycle all manner of machinery
And bring huge input at specific points for manufacturing purposes!


Self running is an entirely different story
You actually have to manifest the extra to self run!


Respectfully
Chet K
BTW
I am absolutely not looking to be involved in another attack against the looped reasoning!


( persons claiming more out than in at 12 fold !but still no looping/self running!


However
I am touching base with some builders I hope are able to make sense of that ( inability to self run with gain)
Will report back when I understand more !





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 05, 2022, 08:47:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJmlqh-963g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJmlqh-963g)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 06, 2022, 11:32:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flJr777SIaQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flJr777SIaQ)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: alan on September 06, 2022, 03:48:17 PM
Can you transform the downward push to a horizontal push against the pendulum? That would make it a self sustaining perpetual motion contraption.  ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 08, 2022, 11:38:29 AM
New world company

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https://www.resale.info/en/Mas-Tos/Vertical-Knee-Type-Milling-Machines/kat-198/

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https://www.steny-predsinove.cz/blog/list-302.html

https://crushing-machine.com/

https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

https://www.wearspareparts.com/product/

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/9009.html

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https://rrtourstravels.in/Jan/6139_01

https://shsb.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-50373033/Stone_Crushing_Machine.html





Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 09, 2022, 11:27:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwjc_xiFTFo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 09, 2022, 09:25:35 PM
275 (or so) pages after the conclusive mathematical analysis, and we’re still chasing this?


Have we successfully created anything useful?


Every oil producer in the world would love to buy your upgrade


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpjack (http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpjack)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 10, 2022, 10:39:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f8F_UCHRpM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f8F_UCHRpM)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 11, 2022, 01:31:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Ts5lTGNic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Ts5lTGNic)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 12, 2022, 06:33:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2ZWsjTaIE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 13, 2022, 12:53:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soZGNOPyUw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soZGNOPyUw8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 14, 2022, 11:08:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANELibOAVEg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANELibOAVEg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 15, 2022, 10:57:08 AM
New company

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https://www.alltractorparts.in/building-materials-equipment/6163/grinding.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 16, 2022, 09:19:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmBvKEIzjM8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmBvKEIzjM8)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 17, 2022, 07:03:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YON0G-scrk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YON0G-scrk)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 18, 2022, 11:46:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Ts5lTGNic&list=LLpxN01fj5KBbNSTozAy8ELg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Ts5lTGNic&list=LLpxN01fj5KBbNSTozAy8ELg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 19, 2022, 01:47:50 AM
Professional opinion by Slobodan Masanovic, B.Sc. Eng.


OPINION ON "TWO-STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR" BY VELJKO MILKOVIC

I believe that the invention of Veljko Milkovic, "Two-stage mechanical oscillator" is the greatest scientific discovery in the history of mankind, which has been experimentally proven in many places around the world. It is a discovery that changes the entire scientific paradigm of both physics itself and many other disciplines. With this discovery, Veljko Milkovic inspired many researchers, and once again confirmed something we have all known for a long time – that the most ingenious things are always simple in essence! Only decades – and centuries ahead of us will show the full magnitude of this discovery of Milkovic. I think that humanity is currently neither ready nor aware of what this is really about!

Slobodan Masanovic, B.Sc. Eng.
Novi Sad, Serbia, February 18, 2022


http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Slobodan_Masanovic_opinion.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 19, 2022, 12:28:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5LKSUUkW6U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5LKSUUkW6U)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 20, 2022, 04:12:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5m42Bw5ZQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5m42Bw5ZQ)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 22, 2022, 10:52:46 AM
New company

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://www.bezpecna-krmiva.cz/9197_granite_n0qZ0.html

https://www.sbmchina.com/equipments/?a=SL&se=bing&campaignid=370593043&dev=c&keyword=rock%20crusher%20equipment&ad=74217299008329&match=p

https://www.zenithcrusher.com/crusher.html?a=zmeng&se=bing&campaignid=376660187&dev=c&keyword=china%20crusher&ad=76965960327400&match=p&msclkid=0f0f0b81f1f41e04852268aaf3a5bbea

https://www.mogroup.com/aggregates/products/crushers/

https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/crushing-machines.html

https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/types-of-crushers

https://www.pelletizermill.com/products/feed-crusher-machine-price-sale/

https://www.propelind.com/products/crushers/

https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/for-sale/crusher-aggregate-equipment/1003

https://www.ronakbriquettingmachine.com/crusher-machine.html

https://sandwichboard.co.za/2022/Jul/19-67225.html


https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://surplusrecord.com/machinery-equipment/car-crushers/

https://www.rbauction.com/crushers?cid=21259429566

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 23, 2022, 07:19:44 AM
Why does your collective West not want for its part to let in people who do not want to fight ?
Does it want more blood ?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 23, 2022, 09:27:44 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOJjXB903tE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOJjXB903tE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 25, 2022, 01:23:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANELibOAVEg&t=29s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANELibOAVEg&t=29s)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 25, 2022, 08:02:01 PM
If, as they say here, the force increases 12 times.
It is possible to use this force to push back a long magnet in the device V-gate.
https://youtube.com/shorts/nZPXn19QX6U?feature=share (https://youtube.com/shorts/nZPXn19QX6U?feature=share)
But this did not achieved to me. So far failed. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 26, 2022, 01:41:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKbmOJ2pUGQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKbmOJ2pUGQ)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 27, 2022, 05:27:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM-g2udHq7s&t=56s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM-g2udHq7s&t=56s)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 27, 2022, 05:48:55 PM
https://www.vemirc.com/en/2022/09/27/idea-veljko-milkovic-suggests-what-you-can-use-instead-of-a-steel-ball-bearing-in-the-two-stage-mechanical-oscillator/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on September 29, 2022, 11:04:57 AM
New company

https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/crushing-machines.html

https://m.made-in-china.com/product/Compund-Pendulum-Jaw-Crusher-of-Stone-Crushing-Processing-Machine-1899892742.html

http://m.sdzhaoxin.com/en/pd.jsp?pid=88

https://www.khgmining.com/product.aspx

https://www.exportersindia.com/hongxing-mining-zhengzhou/

https://www.gobab.eu/Dec/9491_roller-mill-shibang.html

https://www.chezlameremichel.fr/Jul/03-21602.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Jw7Y7r5LdmgJ:https://github.com/sbmboy/fr/blob/main/7/pendulum%2520mass%2520mill%2520technique.md&cd=22&hl=sr-Latn&ct=clnk&gl=rs

https://milejpodrozy.pl/11_2011_6623.html

https://iren-mix.pl/1438025259/20958.html

https://www.sklepowisko.waw.pl/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9-mtw-33282.html

https://geodex.com.pl/Feb/19_9546.html

https://www.onlinesailing.nl/Wed_13_Dec_19134.html

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/milling/pendulum-mill.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 30, 2022, 01:26:18 PM
Veljko Milković - New Video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5TnH2xEZkA
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 01, 2022, 05:52:58 PM
Veljko Milković video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOJjXB903tE&t=20s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 02, 2022, 01:42:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2WbBCXvzbU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2WbBCXvzbU)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 03, 2022, 08:10:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxMdj7MsKjo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxMdj7MsKjo)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 04, 2022, 03:30:32 PM
Video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTQFkoosxro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTQFkoosxro)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 05, 2022, 01:28:47 PM
Veljko Milkoić video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdpvv7mUfY4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 06, 2022, 10:55:23 AM
Over 500 companies in South-East Asia apply the patents of Veljko Milkovic's two-stage oscillator in their production


https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html

https://www.contact-electricite.fr/2021/12/29_4719.html

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.ristorantespaccanapoli.it/research/2995/mtw-europea-trapezium-grinding-mill-works.html

https://www.ciandebia.it/Sep_18-25006.html

https://www.tis-school.it/2022/02/09_38590.html

https://www.steny-predsinove.cz/blog/list-302.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html
https://www.contact-electricite.fr/2021/12/29_4719.html

https://www.vanduin-cv.nl/other-machine/Sep-22_24321.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_62205744356.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html

https://www.gordonvanveelen.org/grind-mill/mf3ewop1/mtw.html

https://mp4ciechanow.pl/2021-Feb-05/8851.html

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/crusher-80828.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=milkovic+veljko+crusher+machine&d=4588885172488899&mkt=en-WW&setlang=en-US&w=P_Ahd7LZE_EmyMpkGcysN6DQ1koicTOv

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.insectavenir.fr/wet-21833-2016-m43621.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 07, 2022, 11:51:20 AM
New video by Veljko Milković


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWfXCFbpxQw&t=8s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 08, 2022, 06:06:04 PM
New video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2npu3DPFstI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2npu3DPFstI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 09, 2022, 02:46:10 PM
New video by Veljko Milković


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5m42Bw5ZQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 10, 2022, 12:19:50 PM
New video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUFMkQcb26U
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 11, 2022, 09:05:56 PM
New video by Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzrC5PNLPsw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 12, 2022, 12:58:54 PM
new video - principle of operation of the crusher Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmMiE2z7WnE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmMiE2z7WnE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 13, 2022, 11:09:37 AM
New company

https://www.ciandebia.it/Sep_18-25006.html

https://www.pepinieres-bernajuzan.fr/calcaire_21728_jRQpT3.html

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.contact-electricite.fr/2021/12/29_4719.html

https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html

https://www.bezpecna-krmiva.cz/9197_granite_n0qZ0.html

https://unihotel.cz/01/26+16529.html

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=veljko+milkovic+crusher+machine&d=4725374941200742&mkt=en-WW&setlang=en-US&w=5M7Pg6B6RBdk2jSToY4m-RJIw9TyuLvx

https://www.elettrosistemisalmaso.it/2021-12-16_36355.html

https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/crusher-80828.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 14, 2022, 09:28:08 AM
New video Veljko Milković


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhys6Cm2a3M
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 16, 2022, 03:40:35 PM
New video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/J97yNf30WWg (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/J97yNf30WWg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 17, 2022, 08:15:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm6OZ43zMyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm6OZ43zMyU)


Veljko Milković video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 18, 2022, 03:11:06 PM
NEW OFFICIAL VIDEO BY VELJKO MILKOVIC

How to Make a Two-Stage Oscillator More Efficient

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs


IMPROVING THE EFFICIENCY OF THE TWO-STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR BY USING CERAMIC BALL BEARINGS OR ELASTIC (FLEXIBLE) PENDULUM

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates ways how to make a two-stage oscillator model more efficient.

Based on all independent scientific papers published so far, as well as videos of replicas of the two-stage mechanical oscillator that can be found on the Internet, it is noted that all these mechanisms are constructed using steel ball bearings.
These steel ball bearings are a hidden brake, which is harmful during operation because it reduces the inertia and thus the efficiency of the entire device (this is a harmful phenomenon in the case of oscillations, but not in the case of rotations as well). Therefore, it is recommended to all researchers and engineers around the world to use ceramic ball bearings and an elastic (flexible) pendulum to obtain significantly less friction.

According to their characteristics, ceramic ball bearings have a lower coefficient of friction. In addition, ceramic balls are lighter than steel balls, resulting in less inertia which further improves their efficiency. Adequate selection of ball bearings can significantly increase the efficiency of the oscillator in terms of the duration of oscillations during laboratory or practical tests. This improvement is achieved precisely by reducing friction and inertia, which results in a longer duration of oscillations, thus greater efficiency and lower energy consumption for their maintenance (e.g. in case of maintaining the pendulum oscillation).
Ball bearings are eliminated in the elastic (flexible) pendulum design, therefore less energy is lost in ball inertia and friction, resulting in even greater efficiency.

The two-stage mechanical oscillator and its practical application have been studied all over the world in university centers, institutes and by enthusiasts for 20 years; with 2 doctoral theses (Ph.D. dissertations) published so far [the third one in the final stage], 39 scientific research papers, 5 university graduate theses, 5 papers from different scientific conferences, as well as 10 other papers related to this invention.
https://www.vemirc.com/en/references-citation/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 19, 2022, 11:52:37 AM
New video by Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7CiEuL1tJ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7CiEuL1tJ4)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 19, 2022, 05:37:49 PM
https://youtu.be/X0Dpd52pfp0 (https://youtu.be/X0Dpd52pfp0)


https://youtu.be/XaP42GJwTsA (https://youtu.be/XaP42GJwTsA)


https://youtu.be/O36lNKCxvc8 (https://youtu.be/O36lNKCxvc8)


https://youtu.be/y7PnFVnXMA0 (https://youtu.be/y7PnFVnXMA0)






3rd party replication with physics explained in comments by professor Pule’
https://youtu.be/Xv_zExpWNOQ (https://youtu.be/Xv_zExpWNOQ)




Ver’s joke
https://youtu.be/_gAchuS8SyU (https://youtu.be/_gAchuS8SyU)




Something far more advanced than anything in this thread so far.
https://youtu.be/FSGNKPMwMKs (https://youtu.be/FSGNKPMwMKs)









Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 20, 2022, 10:59:41 AM
New company - Veljko Milković


https://github.com/lbsid/en/blob/main/168/barytes%20crushing%20machines%20in%20indonesia.md

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://paesello.es/106/ndgigzmr_placer-gold-mining-machine-series-compound-pendulum-ball-mill.html

https://www.full-cnc.de/powder-grinding-equipment/18527.html

https://www.pizzeria-geretshausen.de/2020/10/10_17471.html

https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/crushing-machines.html

https://www.african-machine.com/sell/show.php?itemid=4596

https://www.machmall.com/index.php/item-detail/XCMG-XPY1100-6064.html

https://www.cmcrushermachines.com/?lang=en

https://aimixcrusherplant.com/crusher-machine/

https://www.machinio.com/cat/crushers#results

https://epicartzone.pl/2021-09-29341.html

https://abcsoleil.be/mtw-european-classifier-mill/34544.html

https://unihotel.cz/01/26+16529.html

https://hostelconnect.com.ng/Jan-2009-80.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 21, 2022, 04:30:53 PM
New wideo by Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZwvE2pWk64 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZwvE2pWk64)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 22, 2022, 03:54:46 PM
Video Veljko Milković


closed system in India - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5C9NOHxC0&t=5s)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 23, 2022, 06:07:15 AM
Video Veljko Milković


closed system in India - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5C9NOHxC0&t=5s)


This is a gravity storage system that has to be wound up
Pay attention to the mechanism and the timing
The pendulum is not providing the driving force
the hammer at the end of the lever, instead, operates the keeper
which keeps the pendulum moving.


This is a ‘clockwork’
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 24, 2022, 03:29:31 PM
New video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUaAQHSnII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUaAQHSnII)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 24, 2022, 11:24:41 PM
Was Archimedes incorrect?


2300 years of physics doesnt think so


https://youtube.com/shorts/_RD639XMnAc?feature=share (https://youtube.com/shorts/_RD639XMnAc?feature=share)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 25, 2022, 12:11:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates ways how to make a two-stage oscillator model more efficient.

Based on all independent scientific papers published so far, as well as videos of replicas of the two-stage mechanical oscillator that can be found on the Internet, it is noted that all these mechanisms are constructed using steel ball bearings.
These steel ball bearings are a hidden brake, which is harmful during operation because it reduces the inertia and thus the efficiency of the entire device (this is a harmful phenomenon in the case of oscillations, but not in the case of rotations as well). Therefore, it is recommended to all researchers and engineers around the world to use ceramic ball bearings and an elastic (flexible) pendulum to obtain significantly less friction.
.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 25, 2022, 09:04:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs)

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates ways how to make a two-stage oscillator model more efficient.

Based on all independent scientific papers published so far, as well as videos of replicas of the two-stage mechanical oscillator that can be found on the Internet, it is noted that all these mechanisms are constructed using steel ball bearings.
These steel ball bearings are a hidden brake, which is harmful during operation because it reduces the inertia and thus the efficiency of the entire device (this is a harmful phenomenon in the case of oscillations, but not in the case of rotations as well). Therefore, it is recommended to all researchers and engineers around the world to use ceramic ball bearings and an elastic (flexible) pendulum to obtain significantly less friction.
.


The demonstration in my above video uses no bearings.
The point of contact is a near-frictionless polished brass fulcrum, the most efficient of its’ kind.
Adding an elastic shaft does not change the physics.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 26, 2022, 03:00:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqaE3n_b3e4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqaE3n_b3e4)

Veljko Milković video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on October 27, 2022, 10:54:54 AM
Most of the world's companies do not hide that they produce and sell machines for heavy industry made according to the principle of the two-stage mechanical oscillator invented by Novi Sad resident Veljko Milković. about 500 such companies have no problem putting the name of our famous inventor, however there are quite a number of those who do not mention his name.

These corporations advertise products even through google ads.

I don't mind that world experts have used the pendulum to make useful efficient crushers that are in any case more cost-effective than any machine that works on the principle of rotation. Machines based on oscillations, among other things, protect the environment, and that is why I am very proud, because my thirty years of work have paid off. The production of machines on the principle of my invention put "icing on the cake" because, in addition to numerous research and scientific papers, but also in addition to numerous disputes, it was finally proven that the invention is very functional - says Milković.

However, he believes that other companies should put his name next to the

https://www.mascus.co.za/construction---mining/crushers

https://www.industrialcrushermachine.com/

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://www.911metallurgist.com/equipment/industrial-rock-crusher/

https://daswellmachines.com/crusher-machine/

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher_Machine.html

https://unihotel.cz/01/26+16529.html

https://abcsoleil.be/mtw-european-classifier-mill/34544.html

https://www.cmcrushermachines.com/?lang=en

https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/crushing-machines.html

https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/crusher-80828.html

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://www.contact-electricite.fr/2021/12/29_4719.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.industrial-shreddermachine.com/
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 28, 2022, 01:37:46 AM
These devices were in industrial use before milkovich was born.
Certainly before he decided to hang a bob on his village water pump.


They even predate the oil rigs in Texas.


Archimedes himself described this as i have shown in my simple video with the scales.


It is a reducing logarithmic function.
The math was explain in detail hundreds of pages ago.


If you would like to learn about this:
https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/Lesson-0/Pendulum-Motion (https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/Lesson-0/Pendulum-Motion)


And


http://physics.unl.edu/~klee/phys151/lectures/notes/lec20-notes.pdf (http://physics.unl.edu/~klee/phys151/lectures/notes/lec20-notes.pdf)


Maximum force is present at bottom dead center of the first cycle, and reduces each cycle until the pendulum stops and the lever arm reaches equilibrium.


At no point does it exceed the input energy of the pendulum bob. (even when forces are added across all of the cycles until it stops)
In fact, it is losing quite a bit of energy each cycle, as the mass of the pendulum also rises and falls.


It is a pointless endeavor to construct this device for my own personal appease,
However, i will do so to benefit the education of those pursuing this technology.
As there is no significant benefit other than the automation of machinery.
[size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 28, 2022, 02:18:35 AM
Here is the first demonstration, as i gather materials for my build


https://youtu.be/pkB-GWkF2ac (https://youtu.be/pkB-GWkF2ac)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on October 28, 2022, 02:46:43 PM
These devices were in industrial use before milkovich was born.
Certainly before he decided to hang a bob on his village water pump.
They even predate the oil rigs in Texas.
Archimedes himself described this as i have shown in my simple video with the scales.

Okay. I believe you.
So that I can also take from our ancestors, Leonardo da Vinci, for example, to become famous like Milkovich? Why is he famous and I'm not ? I offered several of my options for the execution of a double pendulum. Things which did not meet on the Internet, at least did not meet me.True, I also failed to achieve self-running, but at least it was out of my head.
But no one paid attention. :( offensively
Maybe this is not the place where you can succeed?
   

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 28, 2022, 04:32:13 PM
What made Milkovic famous is his persistence, and self-promotional endeavors.


However, the physics do not support his claims about the device,
Nor does history place him as its’ original inventor.


We would all love these claims to be true because then we could simply disconnect power to the motors that run our pumpjacks, and get free oil.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 28, 2022, 07:07:15 PM
Veljko Milković video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8ulgrO-Fmo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8ulgrO-Fmo)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 29, 2022, 04:04:50 PM
New video by Veljko Milković


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cH8Wo-FgrM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 31, 2022, 04:04:59 PM
New video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyngW4fRe0U&t=39s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyngW4fRe0U&t=39s)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 31, 2022, 04:05:21 PM
New video Veljko Milković


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJ77J__NlE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 01, 2022, 07:40:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmb5omatGfE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmb5omatGfE)

Video by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Thaelin on November 02, 2022, 04:21:07 PM
That was very impressive even tho it was loud.  :-\ Would not want to be in its local while running.
Now to just quiet it down some.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 03, 2022, 09:18:24 AM
New company


https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/mtw-european-trapezium-mill-veljko-milkovic_1600261303572.html

https://starapanna.com.pl/2022_03_02/34379.html

https://geodex.com.pl/Feb/19_9546.html

https://wyczyscic.pl/making-5653.html

https://www.levestiairegradignan.fr/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9+%D8%B4%D8%A8%D9%87+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%81+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%85%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9_7667.html

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://abcsoleil.be/mtw-european-classifier-mill/34544.html

https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/crushing-machines.html

https://www.contact-electricite.fr/2021/12/29_4719.html

https://www.industrialcrushermachine.com/

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

https://www.pepinieres-bernajuzan.fr/calcaire_21728_jRQpT3.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 05, 2022, 01:57:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZIxuOmDHRM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZIxuOmDHRM)




New video by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 07, 2022, 12:04:49 PM
new video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi4-7LwxlPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi4-7LwxlPI)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 08, 2022, 03:37:54 PM
New video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmMiE2z7WnE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmMiE2z7WnE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 10, 2022, 11:18:21 AM
New company

https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

https://www.mascus.co.za/construction---mining/crushers

https://www.industrialcrushermachine.com/

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://daswellmachines.com/crusher-machine/

https://www.pepinieres-bernajuzan.fr/calcaire_21728_jRQpT3.html

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher_Machine.html

https://abcsoleil.be/mtw-european-classifier-mill/34544.html

https://www.cmcrushermachines.com/?lang=en

https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/crusher-80828.html

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://www.contact-electricite.fr/2021/12/29_4719.html

https://www.industrial-shreddermachine.com/

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.bezpecna-krmiva.cz/9197_granite_n0qZ0.html

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 11, 2022, 04:22:59 PM
https://youtu.be/6LVIXq3Rc-Y
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 13, 2022, 11:17:44 PM
New video
https://youtu.be/V-9iS7RR8-I
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 16, 2022, 09:30:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY1OK3-qHho

New video by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 17, 2022, 11:52:38 AM


---------



https://www.pepinieres-bernajuzan.fr/calcaire_21728_jRQpT3.html

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://www.industrial-shreddermachine.com/

https://pos.de/en/milling-machines-for-mass-production/

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.resale.info/en/Mas-Tos/Vertical-Knee-Type-Milling-Machines/kat-198/

https://www.machinio.com/milling-machines#results

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=mill+mass+machine+veljko+milkovi%c4%87&d=4580965038775985&mkt=en-WW&setlang=en-US&w=6U1v8gzKHnUjLpDqEsovGLAiiOpxbBhx

https://www.abcmach.com/products/

https://www.machinio.com/cat/wool-processing-machines#results

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://crusherwd.en.ecplaza.net/

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.industrialcrushermachine.com/


https://www.bezpecna-krmiva.cz/9197_granite_n0qZ0.html

https://www.cmcrushermachines.com/products/?lang=en

https://www.mascus.co.za/construction---mining/crushers


Ja
Сакриј

---------- Forwarded messag




https://www.pepinieres-bernajuzan.fr/calcaire_21728_jRQpT3.html

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://www.industrial-shreddermachine.com/

https://pos.de/en/milling-machines-for-mass-production/

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.resale.info/en/Mas-Tos/Vertical-Knee-Type-Milling-Machines/kat-198/

https://www.machinio.com/milling-machines#results

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=mill+mass+machine+veljko+milkovi%c4%87&d=4580965038775985&mkt=en-WW&setlang=en-US&w=6U1v8gzKHnUjLpDqEsovGLAiiOpxbBhx

https://www.abcmach.com/products/

https://www.machinio.com/cat/wool-processing-machines#results

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://crusherwd.en.ecplaza.net/

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.industrialcrushermachine.com/


https://www.bezpecna-krmiva.cz/9197_granite_n0qZ0.html

https://www.cmcrushermachines.com/products/?lang=en

https://www.mascus.co.za/construction---mining/crushers



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 18, 2022, 03:56:31 PM
new video by Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZIjOMeKko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZIjOMeKko)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 20, 2022, 08:14:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm-2lMMSVNQ

new video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 21, 2022, 10:37:40 PM
new video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI78jqymVT0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on November 24, 2022, 10:20:10 AM

ANNOUNCEMENT

Veljko Milkovic: Everyone can use my invention,
I ask NOTHING IN RETURN!

In recent days, many have been asking the Serbian inventor Veljko Milkovic why he is not asking for money from the companies around the world that produce and sell machines for heavy industry and which are based on his patented technology of the two-stage mechanical oscillator.

Milkovic states that he is not interested in money and that he is glad that with this move he finally proved that his invention is the greatest invention of all time.

- I'm not asking for anything, and everything I posted on the website is free, everyone has the right to look at the calculations and hire experts to make a machine with the help of which they will get free energy or cost reduction. I thank all the companies that mention me, and those that do not mention me could get started, because it does not cost them anything. I am still open for conversation and cooperation, and since I have an improved solution of a two-stage mechanical oscillator, I invite everyone interested to contact me for a free consultation.

Milkovic notes that companies that want to work on perfecting their machines, and on the account of his invention, are free to contact me, and at the same time he approves that everyone can use the drafts, without any obligations.






https://www.pepinieres-bernajuzan.fr/calcaire_21728_jRQpT3.html

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher_Machine.html

https://abcsoleil.be/mtw-european-classifier-mill/34544.html

https://www.cmcrushermachines.com/?lang=en

https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/crusher-80828.html

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://www.contact-electricite.fr/2021/12/29_4719.html

https://www.industrial-shreddermachine.com/

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.bezpecna-krmiva.cz/9197_granite_n0qZ0.html

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674


https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

https://www.mascus.co.za/construction---mining/crushers

https://www.industrialcrushermachine.com/

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://daswellmachines.com/crusher-machine/

https://www.pepinieres-bernajuzan.fr/calcaire_21728_jRQpT3.html

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Crusher_Machine.html

https://abcsoleil.be/mtw-european-classifier-mill/34544.html

https://www.cmcrushermachines.com/?lang=en

https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/crusher-80828.html

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://www.contact-electricite.fr/2021/12/29_4719.html

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 27, 2022, 06:13:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8jm-9yBl0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8jm-9yBl0)


In recent days, many have been asking the Serbian inventor Veljko Milkovic why he is not asking for money from the companies around the world that produce and sell machines for heavy industry and which are based on his patented technology of the two-stage mechanical oscillator.


Milkovic states that he is not interested in money and that he is glad that with this move he finally proved that his invention is the greatest invention of all time.


- I'm not asking for anything, and everything I posted on the website is free, everyone has the right to look at the calculations and hire experts to make a machine with the help of which they will get free energy or cost reduction. I thank all the companies that mention me, and those that do not mention me could get started, because it does not cost them anything. I am still open for conversation and cooperation, and since I have an improved solution of a two-stage mechanical oscillator, I invite everyone interested to contact me for a free consultation.


Milkovic notes that companies that want to work on perfecting their machines, and on the account of his invention, are free to contact me, and at the same time he approves that everyone can use the drafts, without any obligations.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 28, 2022, 03:36:45 PM
The more power demand has been occurring now a day in India. The main reason for the power demand is due to the lack of improper energy utilization and conservation. The pendulum generator deals with the power generation from the mechanical energy that has been wasted in many real time applications today. The pendulum setup has been made, that is whenever it has been kicked off the kinetic energy of the ball makes the pendulum to oscillate, generates the electrical energy. We can implement the pendulum based power generation system in real time application wherever the vibration is produced. We can implement a pendulum based power generation system in such a dynamic application we can generate power from it. The pendulum power generator is the most efficient & eco friendly power generator. The pendulum power generator is the machine which converts the motion of the pendulum i.e. mechanical energy into electrical energy. This is the most helpful source or machine for power generation today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t453jny8AIg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t453jny8AIg)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 29, 2022, 01:37:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOlsdv1hPHI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOlsdv1hPHI)



So far, Veljko Milkovic has published the following books, brochures and other publications:
• "Solarne zemunice - dom budućnosti"
("Solar sod houses - the house of the future"), (1983)
• "Ekološke kuće"
("Ecological houses"), (1991 - printed in four unedited editions)
• "Šume za proizvodnju hrane - zamena za njive"
("Forests for food production"), (1992 - translated into Esperanto the same year)
• "Ka antigravitaciji - kompaktna vozila"
("Towards anti-gravitation - compact vehicles"), (1994)
• "Antigravitacioni motor / Anti-gravity motor"
("Anti-gravity motor"), (1996 - with translation into English)
• "Perpetuum mobile"
("Perpetuum mobile"), (2001)
• "Petrovaradin kroz legendu i stvarnost"
("Petrovaradin through legend and reality"), (2001)
• "Petrovaradin i Srem - misterija prošlosti"
("Petrovaradin and Srem - mystery of the past"), (2003)
• "Svet misterija - novi pogledi"
("The world of mysteries - new views"), (2004)
• "Petrovaradinska tvrđava - podzemlje i nadzemlje"
("Petrovaradin fortress - over and underground"), (2005)
• "Novi turistički potencijali"
("New tourist potentials"), (2006)
• "Petrovaradinska tvrđava - kosmički lavirint otkrića"
("Petrovaradin fortress - cosmis labyrinth of discoveries"), (2007)
• "Gravitacione mašine - od Leonarda da Vinčija do najnovijih otkrića"
"Gravitational Machines - From Leonardo da Vinci to the Latest Discoveries", (2013 - in English & Serbian)
• "Kako sam pobedio hemoroide" ("How I Beat Hemorrhoids") (2015)
• "Energetska prekretnica ili apokalipsa" ("Energy Turning-Point or Apocalypse") (2016)
• "Panonska Atlantida" ("Panonian Atlantis") (2020)
• "Reflective Panels for Solar Air Conditioning and Health-Safe Housing" (2020 - in English & Serbian)
• "Energy of Oscillations: from an Idea to the Realization" (2020 - in English & Serbian)

VEMIRC publications:

• "The World of Pendulum Power" (2011)
• "Basic Principles of Over Unity Electromagnetic Machines" (2011)
• "Osnovni principi over juniti elektromagnetnih mašina" [Serbian edition of] ("Basic Principles of Over Unity Electromagnetic Machines") (2012)
• "Nauka o slobodnoj energiji" ("The Science of Free Energy") (2018)
• "Genetika Stare i Nove Evrope - poreklo naroda jugoistočne Evrope" ("Genetics of Old and New Europe - the Origin of Peoples of Southeast Europe") (2018)

Veljko Milković also published well-received feiulltones and notes:
• "Niskoenergetski život"
("Low-energy life"), (1996),
• "Energetski potencijal rečnog zaliva"
("Energetic potential of the river bay"), (1996),
• "Prethodna civilizacija"
("Previous civilisation"), (1999),
• "Misterije Petrovaradinske tvrđave"
("Mysteries of Petrovaradin fortress"), (1999),
• "Petrovaradinska tvrđava između legende i stvarnosti"
("Petrovaradin fortress between legend and reality"), (1999) and
• "Nestale civilizacije"
("Missing civilisations"), (2000).

 

His book have been accepted both in domestic and foreign prestigious libraries, such as the Library of Congress, Washington DC and his publications can be found in the British Library in London, Moscow Library and Library of Alexandria. His publication have also been quoted in many Internet encyclopaedias and other sources.

Italian association "A.S.S.E. - Associazione Studiosi Scienze Eterodosse" (http://asse.altervista.org (http://asse.altervista.org)) and publisher of "Altra Scienza" magazine translated Veljko Milković's book "Anti-gravity motor" into Italian language and published it in ebook format in 2007.

Books which are not sold can be found with the author or by online order (click the online order links under the description of available books).

Also, for all information on these publications, contact the author Veljko Milkovic.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on December 01, 2022, 08:14:56 AM
Many companies operating in the world produce crusher machines based on the invention of Veljko Milković, some of them mention him, but there are also those that do not mention the inventor.

https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://www.resale.info/en/Mas-Tos/Vertical-Knee-Type-Milling-Machines/kat-198/

https://www.risedelft.nl/mtw/29_17225.html

https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html

https://www.knuth.com/en-us/machines/milling

https://www.millsmachine.com/products/

https://www.williamscrusher.com/applications/rock-crushers

https://www.mogroup.com/aggregates/products/crushers/

https://www.mclanahan.com/products/jaw-crushers

https://www.rrequipment.com/products/machines/crushers/rebel-crusher/

https://www.levestiairegradignan.fr/%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9+%D8%B4%D8%A8%D9%87+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%81+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%85%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9_7667.html

https://www.crusher-mills.com/en/crushing/industrial-crushing-machines.html

https://www.pepinieres-bernajuzan.fr/calcaire_21728_jRQpT3.html

https://geodex.com.pl/Feb/19_9546.html

https://starapanna.com.pl/2022_03_02/34379.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 01, 2022, 01:17:00 PM
The rock crushing machines in the above links were engineered using standard mechanical engineering,
Most originating in the 19th century.


Please stop perpetuating fraud.
Milkovich did not invent the lever, the fulcrum, the double fulcrum, or their use.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 03, 2022, 08:06:44 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJN21hg6trk


 I have never been a fanatic when it comes to the European Union, and of course I am not its opponent either, I think it is good that in the West,
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 04, 2022, 01:11:49 AM
Ruth Goldberg had one of these in 1939
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 04, 2022, 04:55:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1hOh7j5ad0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1hOh7j5ad0)

Veljko Milković, pendulum
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 06, 2022, 02:14:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyngW4fRe0U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyngW4fRe0U)

Most of the world's companies do not hide that they produce and sell machines for heavy industry made according to the principle of the two-stage mechanical oscillator invented by Novi Sad resident Veljko Milković. about 500 such companies have no problem putting the name of our famous inventor, however there are quite a number of those who do not mention his name.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 08, 2022, 10:51:08 AM
https://catused.cat.com/en/construction/crusher

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Crushers/equipment-for-sale?category=Crushers%7C2002674

https://aimixgroup.com/crusher-machine-sale/

https://restaurantleslavandes.fr/2019_05_26/1592.html

https://schoenenhoskens.be/8236_sbm-grinding-mill-in-thailand.html

https://cabussola.it/07-17_33576.html

https://komornikmucharzewska.pl/9208-1447731491.html

https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/for-sale/crusher-aggregate-equipment/1003

https://aimixcrusherplant.com/crusher-machine/

https://cabussola.it/07-17_33576.html

https://www.mogroup.com/aggregates/products/crushers/

https://fierchina.com/metal-crusher-machine/

https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/crushing-machines.html

https://bestchefafrika.fr/impeller/impeller-for-vertical-mtw-mill-absorbent.html

https://www.machineseeker.com/Crushing-units/ci-568?msclkid=f16e755badad1fdb648b16cbc53fd36d&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2_Suche_EU_EN_DSA_Kategorien&utm_term=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.machineseeker.com%2FCrushing-units%2Fci-568&utm_content=Kategorien

In a rock crusher of the type having a bowl and a head cooperable with the bowl in crushing operation; rotary means rotatable in a first direction for causing said head to gyrate relative to said bowl; means mounting said head for rotary movement relative to said rotary means; and means operatively connected to said head for limiting the speed of rotation of said head in said first direction and permitting free rotation of said head in the other direction.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 10, 2022, 09:07:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGtI1quU6CI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGtI1quU6CI)

In a rock crusher of the type having a bowl and a head cooperable with the bowl in crushing operation; rotary means rotatable in a first direction for causing said head to gyrate relative to said bowl; means mounting said head for rotary movement relative to said rotary means; and means operatively connected to said head for limiting the speed of rotation of said head in said first direction and permitting free rotation of said head in the other direction.


Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 12, 2022, 12:06:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkm3MrK-0sE

New video pednulim lever by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 15, 2022, 10:51:42 AM
https://www.lebanonmtbtrails.co.za/mineral/4170/8kbkd88nm4v6.html
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 15, 2022, 11:42:08 AM
Rotary crushers use an entirely unrelated technology
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 20, 2022, 12:02:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs)


Veljko Milkovic demonstrates ways how to make a two-stage oscillator model more efficient.

Based on all independent scientific papers published so far, as well as videos of replicas of the two-stage mechanical oscillator that can be found on the Internet, it is noted that all these mechanisms are constructed using steel ball bearings.
These steel ball bearings are a hidden brake, which is harmful during operation because it reduces the inertia and thus the efficiency of the entire device (this is a harmful phenomenon in the case of oscillations, but not in the case of rotations as well). Therefore, it is recommended to all researchers and engineers around the world to use ceramic ball bearings and an elastic (flexible) pendulum to obtain significantly less friction.

According to their characteristics, ceramic ball bearings have a lower coefficient of friction. In addition, ceramic balls are lighter than steel balls, resulting in less inertia which further improves their efficiency. Adequate selection of ball bearings can significantly increase the efficiency of the oscillator in terms of the duration of oscillations during laboratory or practical tests. This improvement is achieved precisely by reducing friction and inertia, which results in a longer duration of oscillations, thus greater efficiency and lower energy consumption for their maintenance (e.g. in case of maintaining the pendulum oscillation).Ball bearings are eliminated in the elastic (flexible) pendulum design, therefore less energy is lost in ball inertia and friction, resulting in even greater efficiency.

The two-stage mechanical oscillator and its practical application have been studied all over the world in university centers, institutes and by enthusiasts for 20 years; with 2 doctoral theses (Ph.D. dissertations) published so far [the third one in the final stage], 39 scientific research papers, 5 university graduate theses, 5 papers from different scientific conferences, as well as 10 other papers related to this invention.
https://www.vemirc.com/en/references-citation/ (https://www.vemirc.com/en/references-citation/)

keywords: two-stage mechanical oscillator, pendulum, elasticity, ceramic ball bearings, efficiency, prototype, replica, veljko milkovic

more info: www.pendulum-lever.com (http://www.pendulum-lever.com)  www.veljkomilkovic.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 22, 2022, 09:20:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJN21hg6trk&t=12s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJN21hg6trk&t=12s)

I have never been a fanatic when it comes to the European Union, and of course I am not its opponent either, I think it is good that in the West, especially when it comes to science, there are open minds that do not generalize like stupid people in Serbia, especially when it comes to learn. Namely, this is what it's all about, in Germany it is allowed to certify, which gives an open space for my invention, which classical physics considers impossible. In Serbia, it is known how some people achieve titles, which is also described in Milomir Marić's book. On the other hand, there are books in Germany that represent my work, and one of their universities disclosed in its work that the two-stage oscillator is one of the greatest inventions, which gives new hope for a new era in energy. Europeans and Americans have long praised the benefits of my invention, as well as the Far East, where the pendulum is widely used in the production of crusher machines that serve to save energy. Now there are already over 500 such companies
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on December 26, 2022, 04:02:33 PM
A new paper from India:

Study on see saw pump
https://ijirt.org/master/publishedpaper/IJIRT157627_PAPER.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 26, 2022, 08:00:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJN21hg6trk&t=12s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJN21hg6trk&t=12s)

I have never been a fanatic when it comes to the European Union, and of course I am not its opponent either, I think it is good that in the West, especially when it comes to science, there are open minds that do not generalize like stupid people in Serbia, especially when it comes to learn. Namely, this is what it's all about, in Germany it is allowed to certify, which gives an open space for my invention, which classical physics considers impossible. In Serbia, it is known how some people achieve titles, which is also described in Milomir Marić's book. On the other hand, there are books in Germany that represent my work, and one of their universities disclosed in its work that the two-stage oscillator is one of the greatest inventions, which gives new hope for a new era in energy. Europeans and Americans have long praised the benefits of my invention, as well as the Far East, where the pendulum is widely used in the production of crusher machines that serve to save energy. Now there are already over 500 such companies


There are 0 such companies.


The technology of Archimedes of Syracuse is not patentable.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on December 27, 2022, 01:06:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY9Z0JVDQn0

A simple mechanism with new mechanical effects, represents the source of clean mechanical energy. This gravity machine has only two main parts: a massive lever and a pendulum. The interaction of the two-stage lever multiplies input energy into output energy convenient for useful work (mechanical hammer, press, pump, transmission, electric generator...).

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on January 03, 2023, 10:49:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY9Z0JVDQn0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY9Z0JVDQn0)

A simple mechanism with new mechanical effects, represents the source of clean mechanical energy. This gravity machine has only two main parts: a massive lever and a pendulum. The interaction of the two-stage lever multiplies input energy into output energy convenient for useful work (mechanical hammer, press, pump, transmission, electric generator...).
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 05, 2023, 10:29:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5C9NOHxC0&t=15s

 Systems that work according to his idea, instead of thermal and electric energy, use mechanical as a drive, in the knowledge and application of which this inventor is at the forefront in the world. Thus, a power plant with mechanical drive was built in India according to the idea of Veljko Milković, which works as a closed system (perpetuum mobile), the first and unique in the world. After the realization of the mechanical power plant, it further produces electricity almost on its own and free of charge.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 05, 2023, 10:40:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs&t=70s

English subtitles available in the video player settings *

IMPROVING THE EFFICIENCY OF THE TWO-STAGE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR BY USING CERAMIC BALL BEARINGS OR ELASTIC (FLEXIBLE) PENDULUM

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates ways how to make a two-stage oscillator model more efficient.

Based on all independent scientific papers published so far, as well as videos of replicas of the two-stage mechanical oscillator that can be found on the Internet, it is noted that all these mechanisms are constructed using steel ball bearings.
These steel ball bearings are a hidden brake, which is harmful during operation because it reduces the inertia and thus the efficiency of the entire device (this is a harmful phenomenon in the case of oscillations, but not in the case of rotations as well). Therefore, it is recommended to all researchers and engineers around the world to use ceramic ball bearings and an elastic (flexible) pendulum to obtain significantly less friction.

According to their characteristics, ceramic ball bearings have a lower coefficient of friction. In addition, ceramic balls are lighter than steel balls, resulting in less inertia which further improves their efficiency. Adequate selection of ball bearings can significantly increase the efficiency of the oscillator in terms of the duration of oscillations during laboratory or practical tests. This improvement is achieved precisely by reducing friction and inertia, which results in a longer duration of oscillations, thus greater efficiency and lower energy consumption for their maintenance (e.g. in case of maintaining the pendulum oscillation).Ball bearings are eliminated in the elastic (flexible) pendulum design, therefore less energy is lost in ball inertia and friction, resulting in even greater efficiency.

The two-stage mechanical oscillator and its practical application have been studied all over the world in university centers, institutes and by enthusiasts for 20 years; with 2 doctoral theses (Ph.D. dissertations) published so far [the third one in the final stage], 39 scientific research papers, 5 university graduate theses, 5 papers from different scientific conferences, as well as 10 other papers related to this invention.
https://www.vemirc.com/en/references-citation/

keywords: two-stage mechanical oscillator, pendulum, elasticity, ceramic ball bearings, efficiency, prototype, replica, veljko milkovic

more info: www.pendulum-lever.com  www.veljkomilkovic.com
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 06, 2023, 03:54:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wn15yJ9JYY&t=28s

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates his latest achievements in the field of two-stage oscillator development presenting a new improved model with an elastic (flexible) pendulum and elastic (flexible) lever which is far more efficient than the previous oscillator versions.
This fast and superior model has been significantly improved with elastic oscillations that give a better result with both the pendulum and the lever. The work is still underway on further technical improvements.

This advanced technology is being investigated on all continents. There are now over 500 companies from Southeast Asia that are producing, developing and practically applying the machines based on the principle of Veljko Milkovic’s two-stage oscillator.

more info: www.pendulum-lever.com   www.veljkomilkovic.com
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on January 09, 2023, 12:29:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWfXCFbpxQw

There are hidden brakes in rolling bearings, and let's talk about steel ball bearings that have a large inertia due to mass. They are very heavy, and to avoid that, it would be good to use non-mechanical bearings or an elastic pendulum, in order to get an even better result with a two-stage mechanical oscillator. Now, I'm not saying this without experience, and this is exactly what it's all about. The balls at the pendulum constantly change direction in rotations, one, then the other, and so on every second, and that's why we had big problems. So the first pendulum we tested was with a steel ball bearing, it weighed 400 grams, then a larger mass of 12 kilograms was made, and finally 50 kilograms. We used the highest quality steel bearings, because the investor said that we were in a hurry, it was very urgent for him to test it, and we took the first one we found, but I emphasize the highest quality. So we placed the structure without applying great force, so everything was done with care and everything was respected, but we didn't get anything bigger compared to the pendulum of 40 or 50 kilograms compared to this one of 400 grams. However, the elastic pendulum of 80 grams was better than all of that together, of course I suggest to everyone to use an elastic pendulum in their constructions or possibly ceramic bearings because they are less inert, because the balls constantly change the direction of rotation of the pendulum. of course that case does not apply to rotary machines because the balls spin as long as the rotation lasts, and here the direction of rotation changes every second. It strongly reminds me of a construction that I read about a long time ago, which is that some vehicles have a brake installed in such a way that, in emergency situations, the wheels turn in the opposite direction, away from the movement of the wheels, in order to make the braking as efficient as possible. And that is precisely the unwanted effect that occurs with pendulums where the balls constantly change direction and that is why a lot of energy is wasted, especially because of the weight of the steel balls. Now that problem can be alleviated with ceramic balls, because they are lighter, less inert and, on top of all that, have less friction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on January 09, 2023, 01:20:21 PM
A machine made on the basis of Veljko Milković's invention, which is widely sold, rated with the highest rating
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 09, 2023, 01:59:26 PM
An art project and exhibition in Norway featuring an art object (mobile) inspired by Veljko Milkovic's oscillating pendulum-lever system

https://www.ellenroed.no/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/skyvelaerebok.pdf#page=70

https://kmd.uib.no/no/forskning/stipendiater/_/attachment/view/f9fc8286-b900-4a51-8875-c554180c62fa:6924f314cfd4464025474f1ead22486f439f7352/skyvelaere_compressed.pdf#page=134
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on January 11, 2023, 11:30:02 AM
Aron Murakami video about Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbQjaTZEPjI&t=12s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on January 14, 2023, 09:50:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BFcZDssxEo

Video by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 14, 2023, 02:11:23 PM
A patent application from India mentioning Veljko Milkovic in the state of the technique section (backgroud of the invention)
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/b2/18/67/f32f85b0046929/WO2015177804A1.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: alan on January 14, 2023, 02:41:42 PM
What is the theory behind it?   
"equipotential regauging, or  increasing potential energy at the weightless moment of a swing, since translation in the same potential in a conservative field doesn't cost energy"?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 14, 2023, 07:30:08 PM
Veljko Milkovic 's Two Stage Oscillator - Larger Replica by InnovationsforAll
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1x-5DxctHU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ramset on January 14, 2023, 07:49:07 PM
What is the theory behind it?   
"equipotential regauging, or  increasing potential energy at the weightless moment of a swing, since translation in the same potential in a conservative field doesn't cost energy"?


Alan
Seems a real teaching moment for community?
Can you give some supporting or empirical proof ?


Or is this just theory written as ….”Fact” ( perhaps I don’t understand?


Can you teach or explain?


Sincerely
Chet K
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: alan on January 14, 2023, 11:11:22 PM
Heya Chet, 

I don't know if it is even close to being right, that's why I put in the questionmark. 
Tthis was the idea behind my theory: 
An equipotential (i.e. “equal potential”) is the continuous curve along which every point has at the same potential. As a consequence, it takes no work to move along an equipotential; no forces pull or push in the direction of the equipotential. From this we can conclude that the force has no component along the direction of an equipotential.
https://phys.libretexts.org/Courses/University_of_California_Davis/UCD%3A_Physics_7C_-_General_Physics/10%3A_Electromagnetism/10.1%3A_Fields/10.1.4%3A_Potentials_and_Equipotentials

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on January 15, 2023, 10:49:43 AM
A patent application from India mentioning Veljko Milkovic in the state of the technique section (backgroud of the invention)
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/b2/18/67/f32f85b0046929/WO2015177804A1.pdf
This thing, of looped it, will swing forever ?  :o
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on January 16, 2023, 01:06:24 PM
New video by Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUOLyhtNRhE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUOLyhtNRhE)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on January 19, 2023, 11:26:24 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_cwPaBbJ8E

New video by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: alan on January 22, 2023, 03:51:49 PM
Those chinese manufacturers of Milkovic machines are smart, they simply mention the name of the inventor so they don't pay anything for licensing.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on January 27, 2023, 06:43:13 PM
An international conference in India featuring a paper on Veljko Milkovic's two-stage oscillator:

Design and Development of Water Pumping and Power Generation by Swing Action
https://sapthagiri.edu.in/designs/naac/ICGCP/ME_CV_PHY.pdf#page=214
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on January 28, 2023, 03:46:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUaAQHSnII&t=18s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 03, 2023, 02:08:57 PM
A new paper

Inclined large-angle pendulum may produce endless linear motion of a cart when friction is negligible
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christopher-Provatidis/publication/367392325_Inclined_large-angle_pendulum_may_produce_endless_linear_motion_of_a_cart_when_friction_is_negligible/links/63d1087dd9fb5967c2049ea7/Inclined-Large-angle-Pendulum-May-Produce-Endless-Linear-Motion-of-a-Cart-When-Friction-is-Negligible.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on February 07, 2023, 09:29:21 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZiAOLkdzXc

New video Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on February 20, 2023, 08:46:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUOLyhtNRhE&t=56s

New video by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on February 21, 2023, 09:36:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs&t=6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs&t=6s)

Veljko Milković Video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on February 22, 2023, 03:00:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I&t=17s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I&t=17s)

Milkovic's Pendulum Replica
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lesleyharrell on February 27, 2023, 08:31:55 AM
Heya Chet, 

I don't know if it is even close to being right, that's why I put in the questionmark. 
Tthis was the idea behind my theory: 
An equipotential (i.e. “equal potential”) is the continuous curve along which every point has at the same potential. As a consequence, it takes no work to move along an equipotential; no forces pull or push in the direction of the equipotential. From this we can conclude that the force has no component along the direction of an equipotential.
https://phys.libretexts.org/Courses/University_of_California_Davis/UCD%3A_Physics_7C_-_General_Physics/10%3A_Electromagnetism/10.1%3A_Fields/10.1.4%3A_Potentials_and_Equipotentials

Hello! Your theory is correct. An equipotential surface is a surface on which all points have the same potential, meaning that no work is required to move an object along that surface. This is because the electric field at any point on an equipotential surface is perpendicular to the surface, and therefore, there is no component of the electric field along the surface that would do work on an object moving along it.

The relationship between electric potential and electric field is given by the equation:

E = -∇V

where E is the electric field, V is the electric potential, and ∇ is the gradient operator. This equation tells us that the electric field is perpendicular to the equipotential surfaces because the gradient of the electric potential is always perpendicular to the surfaces of constant potential.

Therefore, your statement is correct that the force has no component along the direction of an equipotential.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on February 28, 2023, 07:53:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUaAQHSnII&t=25s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUaAQHSnII&t=25s)

Veljko Milković Video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on February 28, 2023, 01:10:14 PM
A new paper focused at alleviating human effort by using oscillating motion of a pendulum:

Design and Analysis of Pendulum Operated Piston Pump
https://www.slideshare.net/arkadutta58/design-and-analysis-of-pendulum-operated-piston-pump
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 05, 2023, 09:56:27 AM



It is obvious that in this video you can see how energy is produced, i.e. a two-stage mechanical oscillator that, when struck, releases energy that manifests itself into sound and heat, and as such a device produces overunity and energy




https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2ZJm_A4Zcv61tPRguLKOJ9pIZC3Axj4zNCqvBC2yttJ5hCELKXVcO5wmg&v=sqgTjo7LjdA&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on March 07, 2023, 03:40:46 PM
A new official video by Veljko Milkovic:

Synergy of Gravity and Elasticity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHiu49DwLQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHiu49DwLQ) 

* English subtitles available in the video player settings *

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates new mechanical effects and shows that the load on the output side (lever) does not affect the input (pendulum) whose maintenance requires minimal energy.

Multiplication of energy due to gravity and elasticity – synergy of gravity and elasticity.

Two-stage mechanical oscillator with elastic (flexible) structure
Free energy with an elastic (flexible) structure
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on March 07, 2023, 06:22:17 PM
Is there an electrical analogue of a double pendulum?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on March 14, 2023, 03:02:59 PM
A mechanical hammer with a physical pendulum - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZiAOLkdzXc&t=103s)


A mechanical hammer with a physical pendulum is an original device - a machine that converts the oscillation of a physical pendulum, suspended at the end of one of the arms of a two-armed lever, into the oscillation of a weight at the end of the other arm of the same lever. The axis of rotation, the axis of the physical pendulum is parallel to the axis of rotation, the axis of the lever. The lever shaft bearing is attached to the base via a bracket. The axis of the physical pendulum oscillates up and down, as the pendulum is brought out of its equilibrium position. As a result, the weight at the end of the second arm of the lever also oscillates. The arm belonging to the physical pendulum is raised at each deviation of the physical pendulum from the equilibrium position, because then the weight of that pendulum decreases, and the same arm of the lever is lowered when the position of the physical pendulum is close to the equilibrium position and so alternately. The period of oscillation of the lever and the weight on it is twice as short as the period of oscillation of the physical pendulum and the pendulum weight. The main difference between the originally patented two-stage mechanical oscillator and the improved version lies in the use of an elastic pendulum instead of a pendulum with a rigid support. Namely, a prototype was made and it is very clear that there were no unforeseen problems in the form of unwanted horizontal oscillations, so this prototype represents a good basis for the production of oscillators of larger dimensions. This oscillator works at higher speeds, the oscillations last longer, there is no loss of energy that was a consequence of the use of ball bearings and a rigid structure. The primary use of this oscillator model is to save energy in existing machines such as crushers, mills, pump drives, compressors[/font][/size]
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on March 16, 2023, 08:50:17 AM
Is there a magnetic version of Milkovich's double pendulum?
In which the forces of gravity are replaced by the forces of magnetic attraction, and the kinetic energy of the moving pendulum remains? ;)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 18, 2023, 08:38:14 PM
Is there a magnetic version of Milkovich's double pendulum?
In which the forces of gravity are replaced by the forces of magnetic attraction, and the kinetic energy of the moving pendulum remains? ;)


Although it is possible to use magnetic or electric fields to cause pendulum+lever devices to perform in non-Archimedian manners, to create an apparatus which results in any gain
Of mechanical, magnetic or electrical energy would have absolutely nothing to do with this device.


Theres nothing special about this mechanism.
The guy invented a tiny manual pump-jack that pumps water instead of oil.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on March 20, 2023, 11:39:10 AM
Have the people near the "inventor" since conceded that it's at best a convenient lever rather than an energy device?
There were quite many pasisonate one back in the day, but I've not really followed the topic for over a decade.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on March 20, 2023, 01:23:25 PM
I experimented a lot with this device. But I did not find a OU there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 21, 2023, 10:01:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHiu49DwLQ&t=66s

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates new mechanical effects and shows that the load on the output side (lever) does not affect the input (pendulum) whose maintenance requires minimal energy.

Multiplication of energy due to gravity and elasticity – synergy of gravity and elasticity.

Two-stage mechanical oscillator with elastic (flexible) structure
Free energy with an elastic (flexible) structure


keywords: two-stage oscillator, pendulum, oscillations, rotations, gravity, elasticity, efficiency, free energy, veljko milkovic

more info: www.pendulum-lever.com   www.veljkomilkovic.com
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 21, 2023, 10:03:23 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRZMBw0mGs&t=58s


Veljko Milkovic demonstrates ways how to make a two-stage oscillator model more efficient.

Based on all independent scientific papers published so far, as well as videos of replicas of the two-stage mechanical oscillator that can be found on the Internet, it is noted that all these mechanisms are constructed using steel ball bearings.
These steel ball bearings are a hidden brake, which is harmful during operation because it reduces the inertia and thus the efficiency of the entire device (this is a harmful phenomenon in the case of oscillations, but not in the case of rotations as well). Therefore, it is recommended to all researchers and engineers around the world to use ceramic ball bearings and an elastic (flexible) pendulum to obtain significantly less friction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on March 21, 2023, 12:04:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHiu49DwLQ&t=66s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHiu49DwLQ&t=66s)

Veljko Milkovic demonstrates new mechanical effects and shows that the load on the output side (lever) does not affect the input (pendulum) whose maintenance requires minimal energy.

Multiplication of energy due to gravity and elasticity – synergy of gravity and elasticity.

Two-stage mechanical oscillator with elastic (flexible) structure
Free energy with an elastic (flexible) structure


keywords: two-stage oscillator, pendulum, oscillations, rotations, gravity, elasticity, efficiency, free energy, veljko milkovic

more info: www.pendulum-lever.com (http://www.pendulum-lever.com)   www.veljkomilkovic.com (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com)
I've been away from the subject for about a decade.
Is vertical oscillation still regarded as energy, measuring the peak rather than the avarages? The output still halts quickly when asked to provide the smallest useful work. If every swing provided I height gain...but it just seems to lose amplitude immediately.
It is a great lever system for a water pump, but what else?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on March 30, 2023, 12:02:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5C9NOHxC0

Systems that work according to his idea, instead of thermal and electric energy, use mechanical as a drive, in the knowledge and application of which this inventor is at the forefront in the world. Thus, a power plant with mechanical drive was built in India according to the idea of Veljko Milković, which works as a closed system (perpetuum mobile), the first and unique in the world. After the realization of the mechanical power plant, it further produces electricity almost on its own and free of charge.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on March 31, 2023, 12:48:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5C9NOHxC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5C9NOHxC0)

Systems that work according to his idea, instead of thermal and electric energy, use mechanical as a drive, in the knowledge and application of which this inventor is at the forefront in the world. Thus, a power plant with mechanical drive was built in India according to the idea of Veljko Milković, which works as a closed system (perpetuum mobile), the first and unique in the world. After the realization of the mechanical power plant, it further produces electricity almost on its own and free of charge.
Perpetuum mobile is quite a claim for a video against the light...

Odd thing I notice is that the horizontal bar for the second phase is locked until the last part of the swing to the right. Only then is opened to be lowered. The release to go back up is also locked for a delayed short second stage.
I am happy bet against that being a runner, but look forward to replications.

Has anyone ever made a case for it having to be a large scale build? Surely if the dimensions are as the genius inventors recommmend, a quick 3D print wil do the job? It's been a lot of years and this against-the-light shaky video is to be the first actual runner?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on April 04, 2023, 08:22:08 PM
New replicas of Veljko Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator:

A Better Two-stage Oscillator (by Quantum Energy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wVfdRer2DU

Two-Stage Oscillator and Beyond (by Quantum Energy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Z7SKNVEMw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 04, 2023, 08:28:55 PM
New replicas of Veljko Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator:

A Better Two-stage Oscillator (by Quantum Energy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wVfdRer2DU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wVfdRer2DU)

Two-Stage Oscillator and Beyond (by Quantum Energy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Z7SKNVEMw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Z7SKNVEMw)
That's just theorizing.
No useful work is done (in any of hundreds of videos I've seen on this idea), only ways sought to limit movement which in turn will limit amplitude and total kinentic energy in the system.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 05, 2023, 03:31:47 AM
Why is this manual pump jack still a thing?
Go back to the teeter totter, put the fat kid across from you again
But this time hang a pendulum under your seat:
Does this change your situation?
NO!


http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/blocks.html (http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/blocks.html)



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 06, 2023, 01:37:22 PM



Pump jack
Commercial use from 1786-present

https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Pump_jack (https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Pump_jack)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 06, 2023, 07:23:11 PM
Yeah, but but but...if I misunderstand how forces relate to work done and power...just hanging a pendulum from that thing makes it a free energy device that will save the planettttt!

Years and years of building and no-one manages to extract the tiniest bit of energy without reducing the first stage amplitude.

Let's all come to a compromise. Half of the great minds now pursuing the two-stage oscillator will move on to other ventures nothing to do with it, and half will never stop working on it, unless they want to stop.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 06, 2023, 08:07:30 PM
In most parts of this field i admire persistence,
And throughout history, scientists have been proven wrong
Or their theories inaccurate or incomplete.
Two however, have survived the test of time.


Hermes and Archimedes


i, myself, wouldnt challenge a word either of them said.
In fact, if any part of science defies a single one of either of their principles,
It is probably incorrect.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 07, 2023, 05:41:14 PM
https://www.aparat.com/v/eWZa3?fbclid=IwAR2q2UOz3YgxG48GXYbWI46_l5Y-8gVn01ldxFnEQkonB48dZge8_XX02Ag (https://www.aparat.com/v/eWZa3?fbclid=IwAR2q2UOz3YgxG48GXYbWI46_l5Y-8gVn01ldxFnEQkonB48dZge8_XX02Ag)


it does the same thing, irrespective of proportional leverage, or weight imbalances.
We can multiply or divide by the leverage proportion, but the mechanical gain comes at a proportional cost.


Fix only a pendulum,
Constrain its swing to a single plane along the horizontal as would a clock
And place a stiff spring between the shaft and pendulum.
get another pendulum as the same as you can, with no spring
but the length adjusted to match the other for timing.
(here we ignore the elongation of spring for discussion)


Now start them from 90-degrees to the vertical.


This demonstrates the work function of the spring, almost precisely
as observed by the decrease in momentum of the pendulum.


The “waterpump” will work exactly the same connected to the shaft OR the end of a Lever.
this makes no difference. The mechanical leverage only increases the work function.


As you see in every model or experiment, this slows the pendulum.
E=mgh

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 07, 2023, 05:44:33 PM
want it to keep swinging?
How about rotate it a full circle? (Ohh! Look we get an ‘up’ stroke!)
Now we can attach a flywheel to conserve some energy losses, and ….


This is a pump jack
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 07, 2023, 05:48:13 PM
Now ONLY swing the pendulum on the TOP side of the circle


does your device weight LESS at top dead center for a moment?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 20, 2023, 02:19:52 PM
Please get back on topic!!!!

https://china.org.ru/product/ru/62205744356?ysclid=lg511dqnjy789902045 (https://china.org.ru/product/ru/62205744356?ysclid=lg511dqnjy789902045)


The topic is the physics of pendulums and levers.
A science that has been extensively studied for over 7500 years.


Archimedes principles of leverage have been more than sufficiently accurate for all of our known modern era.


To be more specific: the topic is a manual version of the Pump Jack
This is the primary pump used worldwide for the harvesting of water and petroleum.
This consists of a pendulum (or equivalent weighted flywheel), and a lever.
Rotational momentum is converted into linear motion to drive the pump.


There is less energy output than was put into the system,
essentially making this topic one of a theological nature.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on April 20, 2023, 07:20:01 PM
A floppy lever that makes a weak input, if frequent enough, do little bit of heavy lifting.
It's a religion more than a science. No-one ever saw it produce net energy, no matter how complex it was built.
Just a nice pump, and kind of fun. Invented by somehow who doesn't trusted his own math, or couldn't do measurements.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Willy on April 21, 2023, 06:09:49 PM
Levers and flywheels certainly are useful.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on April 25, 2023, 11:32:44 AM




https://youtu.be/oBLsrQsd5mY (https://youtu.be/oBLsrQsd5mY)
https://youtu.be/oQLtcrSLUSU (https://youtu.be/oQLtcrSLUSU)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 07, 2023, 01:39:28 PM
Are you OK?
Seems Chinese vendors have found a way to get their products be viewed. Add the label Molkovic.

What ARE you trying to do with all those product listings?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on May 07, 2023, 03:42:18 PM
Kratkaforma thinks that this is a forum where managers hang out for mining equipment and mining . ;D
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 08, 2023, 10:54:04 PM
New video by Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBgiEdOJaBg
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on May 10, 2023, 12:01:06 AM
Someone appears to be intentionally wasting our time. I'm totally done with this.
How do I never get this thread on my screen again please?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on May 14, 2023, 05:19:30 PM
NEW PATENT application by Veljko Milkovic:

Hammer Driven by a Two-Stage Oscillator (P-2021/1215)

https://www.zis.gov.rs/wp-content/uploads/glasnik-03-2023.pdf#page=13 (https://www.zis.gov.rs/wp-content/uploads/glasnik-03-2023.pdf#page=13)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on May 17, 2023, 11:59:18 AM
New video Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJMZYhTWvjc
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kratkaforma on June 06, 2023, 02:17:10 PM
companies that sell machines based on the two-stage mechanical oscillator invented by Serbian academician Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 06, 2023, 02:19:43 PM
Video Veljko Milković


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJMZYhTWvjc&t=2s

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on June 07, 2023, 07:49:28 PM
Video Veljko Milković


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJMZYhTWvjc&t=2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJMZYhTWvjc&t=2s)
Decades into his R&D, he's oscillating a piece of tape, and amplitude it diminsihing. Nothing that extracts useful work even close to being attached. He wields a power tool, though. So so close to connection it, but people need to learn and try before he gives everything away, I guess?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 12, 2023, 03:50:01 PM

Some Milkovic pendulum replicas / ideas:


Milkovic Sissor Hydrolics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_eTvnrROQU


Pendulum Water Pump and Purifier Group 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19F3ZenNJSM


Generador según Milkovic
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qhFuPij1YGE


Mini project ideas: Pendulum Based Water Pump | Mechanical engineering projects 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alcpy4-nehM


PENDULUM BASED WATER PUMP SYSTEM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xce5C6vAfk
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 12, 2023, 06:27:32 PM
A fabrication of pendulum pump - BE Final Year 2017 Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBYU-K8fJ2w
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 13, 2023, 01:11:51 PM
Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufGTwFLrAE4
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 14, 2023, 08:41:34 AM

Veljko Milković's announcement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15HgG0bB9ic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15HgG0bB9ic)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 21, 2023, 02:08:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8jm-9yBl0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8jm-9yBl0)

Veljko Milković new video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on June 21, 2023, 02:09:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6SbJhc9XE

New Video Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on June 22, 2023, 11:56:07 AM
New paper from India


Pendulum operated Water pump
https://ijirt.org/master/publishedpaper/IJIRT159909_PAPER.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on June 22, 2023, 09:53:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6SbJhc9XE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6SbJhc9XE)

New Video Veljko Milković
He's being attacked for flaws in the invention.
Well, his disciples have been claiming overunity for over a decade where there is just leverage. All those devotees and none was able to loop it or get any unexpected energy out. Just a lever that slings around.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 02, 2023, 12:59:44 PM
New official video by Veljko Milkovic:

Exit from the Vicious Energy Circle

The entire energy industry today is in a vicious cycle of rotations, because turbines, gears, rotors, flywheels, etc, which are dominant in energetics, are far less efficient than oscillations and technical solutions based on them, such as Veljko Milkovic's two-stage oscillator technology.

Given the current energy situation (crisis), global warming and all that, it is time to give some thought to these more advanced and forward-thinking oscillation-based technologies and use the achieved ultra-efficiency effects by applying elasticity-based improvements to accelerate our world's transition to an energy-sustainable future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JurIRmBzNdw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on July 02, 2023, 02:53:21 PM
For ultra specific applications such as a water pump, the 2SO might have a window of opportunity to be more efficient that with some other forms of leverage (gearing or otherwise).
2SO in itself doesn't bring energy in, doesn't give energy back, none of all that. It's a lever dangling from the end of another levers. Any peak force gained is lost in amplitude, as every decent model will correctly predict. The oscillations may make calculations in split second seem "exciting" or even "anomalous" for the believers, but the same might apply to an onject falling to a surface and you only measure specific aspects on a specific time frame.
Why is this still such a big distraction from novel systems that need honest validation or debunking?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 11, 2023, 12:00:23 AM
a replica we didn't see before:

Bedini Style Veljko Milkovic Inspired Pump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6nE_XWYVJM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on July 12, 2023, 01:22:46 PM
New video by Veljko Milković

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxtnBD9aTSM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on July 12, 2023, 05:21:49 PM
It is good there is always something new from a scientific point.
There is a new academic paper mentioning the Milkovic pendulum:

Modelling the Dynamics of Magneto-Mechanical Systems through the Action Principle

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6404/ab8e29/

Looking forward to read the full article once it would be available online.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on July 15, 2023, 06:08:43 PM
The title already said "12 time more" a very long time ago, but has anyone even achieved 1% more output than input?
Lots and lots of builds and papers, but what's the very most promising piece from all those years, and what does it consititute in terms of energy in/out?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: thx4 on July 19, 2023, 11:08:21 AM
https://youtu.be/xb6IM-wVP_s

Il y a bien une amplification mais c'est la cinétique de la roue qui est transmise au balancier, par désynchronisation avec le ressort qui maintien la masselotte bleue.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on July 19, 2023, 04:24:45 PM
https://youtu.be/xb6IM-wVP_s (https://youtu.be/xb6IM-wVP_s)

Il y a bien une amplification mais c'est la cinétique de la roue qui est transmise au balancier, par désynchronisation avec le ressort qui maintien la masselotte bleue.
Why not take the 10 second and translate it to English which everyone on here speaks?

Does that wheel not slow down less without the attached vertically dangling items attached? The attachment move around, but don't really accumulate meaningful net kinetic energy. The wheel's initial kinetic energy gets sloshed around the complex system and it comes to a halt faster than  a normal wheel, probably. And even if it turn a big longer, that would be from transferring high speed high drag into low drag kinetics early on and sending it back later. A simply flywheel would still vastly out perform this setup, right?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: thx4 on July 20, 2023, 09:09:52 AM

Sorry for the language my English is insufficient, usually I translate there it is an lapse of memory...
Concerning the video there is no question to ask it shows only what it says to show, the rest is pure speculation, no interest. Or do it yourself, I don't know what you're talking about!!!!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ramset on July 20, 2023, 04:49:26 PM
https://youtu.be/xb6IM-wVP_s (https://youtu.be/xb6IM-wVP_s)

Il y a bien une amplification mais c'est la cinétique de la roue qui est transmise au balancier, par désynchronisation avec le ressort qui maintien la masselotte bleue.
Google translate
Quote
There is indeed an amplification but it is the kinetics of the wheel which is transmitted to the balance, by desynchronization with the spring which maintains the blue weight.
End quote
—//———————
Sir
It is truly a puzzle which needs investigation..
Others have written ( and explained in correspondence) the output of the pendulum is a bit autonomous of input ..?


Nice you add flywheel and dynamics ..and share your research!
Greatly appreciated…
Respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Atti2 on July 20, 2023, 08:16:27 PM

It is truly a puzzle which needs investigation..


Hi.

Not strictly related to the topic. I apologize for that. But we can see similarities. (?) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzgOjJVKxNc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyzJbB-OdpU


What is the process of amplification?
In this embodiment, magnetism is used.
It worked for more than 1 hour. Proof that magnets can be used as a source of energy if they are mounted in the right arrangement.
The beeping in the video footage proves that acceleration is happening.
Unfortunately, the process stopped because the steel balls fitted were magnetised.
 That is why if you try to operate such systems in a way that the demagnetisation process is involved, there is a chance of a working machine.  Otherwise, no. A good example is the following test:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc

What is the process of amplification?

So if we find this phenomenon in the system, then we can move on. Whatever system it is.

Atti.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 01, 2023, 02:25:41 PM
Who is John Bedini? It is about a famous American inventor in the field of electrical engineering who also started another research over unity and free energy forum and the administrator himself gives a chance to our inventor as well as many researchers who make a combination of the Milković oscillator and Bedini's electrotechnical achievements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXw8CccTEyk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVCvP53Au60&t=18s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVVXJfGItI&t=21s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxTibOlHT4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s786CZkdoi0

The combination of Milković and Bedini can create a revolution in the world of science




Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 01, 2023, 04:06:55 PM
I'm far from an expert of circuitries and battery charging, but from what I've gathered and heard confirmed by some experts I'm friendly with, Bedini's anomalous "gains" were due to chemically depleting his batteries?

Has anyone been able to loop Bedini devices and get a decent standalone power supply, with good W/kg output?
For instance, if you need a ton of equipment to get a Watt, you might as well get a solar panel and battery, and get dozens of Watts over on an annual timeframe, for about 10-20 as the batteries and panel will last.

How would adding the utterly unprove Milkovic wobbly lever help Bedini cross the overunity threshold, if the former has supposedly beeen that for decades now? Depleting a battery's chemistry to keep a below unity 2-stage oscillator running, until the battery really doesn't want anymore or just loses state of charge?

We seem to get hundreds or even thousnds of links to check out, but no-one will point to the ONE that shows overunity in a way that would matter to society. Yes, it's fun to push a weight horizontally and get a vertical level to pump water, but moving the water pump lever vertically never seemed to be a hindrance at all. Tried and true technology. the 2-stage oscillator is like gearing down a bicycle for a short hill. If you don't have the strength for the big gear, that's nice, but getting up there will still take a long time, possibly longer than just walking up where you have naturally longer levers (legs) than cranks to begin with.

One day a bright scholar will eventually achieve a triple doctorate in theology, phychology and sociology an, submitting a thesis based on observations of the the Bedini and Milkovic scenes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHPFphlzwdQ&t=483s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHPFphlzwdQ&t=483s)
I use strong magnets in a similar way to help verify silver coins and bars. Copper plate...embarrassing indeed if that's supposed to be proof video, which I'm not sure it is.. At least it's unlisted, but errr...why was it even filmed and uploaded?
It's possible the big following YouTuber took an educational video on diamagnetism into the context of the channel's superconductivity claims. Let's hope for that to be the case.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 09, 2023, 08:50:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgPMR0j7sqo

On September 14, 2016, at a public forum in Novi Sad, as well as on several other occasions, before and after on social networks, the media, public appearances, fair events, a competition for a prize of 100,000 dinars was announced for a successful proof and experimental anti-thesis that oscillations of an elastic pendulum are not more efficient than rotations.

To date, no one has yet come up with any model and presented practical proof that a wheel (or anything else that rotates) spins longer than a pendulum ie. that the stopping time of the wheel is longer than the oscillation of the elastic pendulum.

Considering that there were no registered candidates yet, I am extending the competition until further notice and now with all my assets, I guarantee that oscillations are more efficient than rotations which are dominant in energetics, and I invite researchers and all people interested in science and technology to present practical evidence in support of this anti-theses and win a valuable prize.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 09, 2023, 09:05:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRsDuCS1sA

New video Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 09, 2023, 02:18:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRsDuCS1sA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRsDuCS1sA)

New video Veljko Milković
It really is a cult more so than an invention, right?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on August 11, 2023, 07:11:48 AM
ALL THERE FOR THOSE SKEPTICS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 11, 2023, 11:54:19 AM
ALL THERE FOR THOSE SKEPTICS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE)
If there's so much free energy, why has no-one been able to loop or extract it?

Skimmed the video. I think the gentleman forgot to factor in that when you extract the pundulum's force at top bottom, you lower the fulcrum and the pendulum can't keep going as it did.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 14, 2023, 02:54:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuDfMwf10co

In the field of further development of the two-stage oscillator, the improvement of the oscillator construction itself was achieved, and thus, at the same time, the efficiency of the device itself was increased.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 14, 2023, 02:56:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuDfMwf10co (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuDfMwf10co)

In the field of further development of the two-stage oscillator, the improvement of the oscillator construction itself was achieved, and thus, at the same time, the efficiency of the device itself was increased.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHiu49DwLQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 14, 2023, 02:59:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/J97yNf30WWg

Veljko Milković video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 15, 2023, 12:47:18 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHiu49DwLQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHiu49DwLQ)
The gold first stage weight seems to stop for NOTHING. Does that thing have an eccentrically spinning weight inside?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stivep on August 15, 2023, 03:16:33 AM
My full respect to  Veljko Milković.
Unfortunate is  that Serbians  are not so much  EU  but RF  influenced .
https://youtu.be/XpdF9bNsbZ8?t=2285 (https://youtu.be/XpdF9bNsbZ8?t=2285)
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Misljenje.htm (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Misljenje.htm)

Veljko Milković rođen je 1949. godine u Subotici (Srbija)
i od 1952. godine živi u Novom Sadu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_Sad) (Srbija)
gde se školovao i studirao istoriju.
Pored zanimanja za prošlost, bavi se istraživanjem, pronalazaštvom, inovacijama, izučavanjem istorije pronalazaka,
futurističkim projektima, pisanjem, itd.
Poseduje oko 114 pronalazaka (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Sto_pronalazaka.htm), od toga 40-ak objavljenih pronalazaka od kojih su neki u višegodišnjoj primeni (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Ekoloska_kuca.htm) i 29 odobrenih patenata (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Patenti.htm).


Napisao je 13 knjiga (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Knjige.htm) koje su prevedene na više svetskih jezika i na osnovu kojih je do sada snimljeno nekoliko igrano-dokumentarnih filmova.
Na osnovu njegov rada, istraživanja i knjiga koje napisao, urađeno je više naučnih radova kao i seminarskih, diplomskih i magistarskih radova. T
akođe za svoj višedecenijski rad dobio je brojna[/size] priznanja (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Sertifikati.htm) u zemlji i inostranstvu između ostalog i dva zvanja akademika (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Priznanja/SAIN_povelja.jpg) 2006.
godine. Dvostepeni mehanički oscilator (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Oscilacije.htm)
- pronalazak Veljka Milkovića - ujedno je 2006. godine proglašen i za jednu od 100 najboljih energetskih tehnologija
u svetu od strane New Energy Congress (SAD).
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/O_Veljku.htm (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/O_Veljku.htm)


In 2017 I was in Serbia.
But I didn't know about him.
He is passionate  easily talking to a scientist even  if he is not the one.
However I love guys like Veljko Milković.


Now you Chet understand  how is to not know Slavic languages - where 90% of all you guys
are interested with Slavic advancement  in FE.
On line translator  is not good at all for technical text.


Wesley
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 15, 2023, 11:38:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68QCY-BmtjQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68QCY-BmtjQ)

The entire energy industry today is in a vicious cycle of rotation, because turbines, propellers, rotors, flywheels, gears, pulleys, etc, which are dominant in energetics, are far less efficient than oscillations and technical solutions based on them, such as Veljko Milkovic's two-stage oscillator technology.
Given the current energy situation (crisis), global warming and all that, it's time to give some thought to these more advanced and forward-thinking oscillation-based technologies and use the achieved ultra-efficiency effects by applying elasticitybased improvements to accelerate our world's transition to an energy-sustainable future
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 15, 2023, 12:24:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68QCY-BmtjQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68QCY-BmtjQ)

The entire energy industry today is in a vicious cycle of rotation, because turbines, propellers, rotors, flywheels, gears, pulleys, etc, which are dominant in energetics, are far less efficient than oscillations and technical solutions based on them, such as Veljko Milkovic's two-stage oscillator technology.
Given the current energy situation (crisis), global warming and all that, it's time to give some thought to these more advanced and forward-thinking oscillation-based technologies and use the achieved ultra-efficiency effects by applying elasticitybased improvements to accelerate our world's transition to an energy-sustainable future
People like yourself behave much like a radio channel that broadcasts on all channels, but doesn't answer the phone for discussions.


All this blah blah, but ZERO attempt to loop the 2-stage oscillator. Even if it's just 10% overunity, someone will manage to loop it and get nice energy from it. One would run the house from an apparatus in the garden, the size of a swing for the kids, but weighing several tons. In the thousands of videos, we see people who COULD NOT BE BOTHERED to loop their free energy device. Your religion sets its own rules, and because of it, only gets to do the chanting, not reap the benefits.

That gold puck first stage weight...I suspect is a hidden scam power source. Nice, not having to push the pendulum every few seconds. But then we see it won't stop when the bridge is stopped.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Paul-R on August 15, 2023, 12:34:08 PM
Even if it's just 10% overunity, someone will manage to loop it and get nice energy from it.
Yes, and we could lower the bar a bit and ask them to calculate PE and KE on the input and output sides.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 15, 2023, 12:36:43 PM
People like yourself behave much like a radio channel that broadcasts on all channels, but doesn't answer the phone for discussions.



Like I said, mayo and kratkaforma  it's a bots.  IMHO.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stivep on August 15, 2023, 12:49:03 PM

Do sada je objavio sledeće knjige:
 
•  "Solarne zemunice - dom budućnosti" (1983.),
•  "Ekološke kuće" (1991. - štampano u četiri neizmenjena izdanja),
•  "Šume za proizvodnju hrane" (1992. - prevedeno na esperanto iste godine),
•  "Ka antigravitaciji - kompaktna vozila" (1994.),
•  "Antigravitacioni motor" (1996. - sa uporednim prevodom na engleski jezik),
•  "Perpetuum mobile" (2001.),
•  "Petrovaradin kroz legendu i stvarnost" (2001.),
•  "Petrovaradin i Srem - misterija prošlosti" (2003.),
•  "Svet misterija - novi pogledi" (2004.),
•  "Petrovaradinska tvrđava - podzemlje i nadzemlje" (2005.),
•  "Novi turistički potencijali" (2006.) i
•  "Petrovaradinska tvrđava - kosmički lavirint otkrića" (2007.).
•  "Gravitacione mašine - od Leonarda da Vinčija do najnovijih otkrića" (2013.).
 
Pored toga objavio je i zapažene feljtone i skripte:
 
•  "Niskoenergetski život" (1996.),
•  "Energetski potencijal rečnog zaliva" (1996.),
•  "Prethodna civilizacija" (1999.),
•  "Misterije Petrovaradinske tvrđave" (1999.),
•  "Petrovaradinska tvrđava između legende i stvarnosti" (1999.) i
•  "Nestale civilizacije" (2000.).
____________________________________________________________

Veljko Milković.  was quite conservative till  his  work on antigravitation.
"Ka antigravitaciji - kompaktna vozila" (1994.),
For uneducated  average never good physics, in Serbia   it was OK.
School based on Russian Soviet system there was excellent but died with its collapse causing disintegration of Yugoslavia
soon after that.
Serbians are sweet, friendly but more than often having two faces:-"double-faced"
tending to say one thing and do another; deceitful.
•  "Gravitacione mašine - od Leonarda da Vinčija do najnovijih otkrića" (2013.). this was a time in his life when  knowing his limitation and
 now quite  established he started offer 100 000  reward for anyone willing to disprove
his statement about superiority of vibrational  system over  rotational one.

Being excellent in his passion yet intelligent,
Veljko Milković yet popular enough and  beneficiary on the Yugoslavia collapse leftovers,
remined attracted to  classical  mechanics  as suppose too  quantum world.
But other than that  he is a type of people  I love to  be around.
I could of make him quite potent  in the right direction.

But but it is to late.. for many of these born in 1949 including Veljko Milković.

Wesley
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 15, 2023, 01:24:43 PM
Often here the Milkovic oscillator is shown as ' mill,crusher' !
Compared the internal process from an other ' crushing technology' ,efficiency ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tT0XsoCYR0I (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tT0XsoCYR0I)

https://e-catworld.com/2023/07/11/how-to-achieve-the-fleischmann-pons-heat-effect-paper/ (https://e-catworld.com/2023/07/11/how-to-achieve-the-fleischmann-pons-heat-effect-paper/)

https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F9mofaG-6Qu4%3AlH1bKYwqwfItmbHj-yFGaqVR0e4&cuid=2168707 (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F9mofaG-6Qu4%3AlH1bKYwqwfItmbHj-yFGaqVR0e4&cuid=2168707)
Natural phenomen and cause,in german explained :

Windhexe ~ Windteufel ( der Wind,der Wind,das himmlische Kind)
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleintrombe (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleintrombe)  versus Grosstrombe

http://www.oilfieldwiki.com/wiki/Windhexe (http://www.oilfieldwiki.com/wiki/Windhexe)
http://www.oilfieldwiki.com/wiki/Vortex_tube (http://www.oilfieldwiki.com/wiki/Vortex_tube)

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirbelrohr (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirbelrohr)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube)
Teslas linear vortex valve    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_valve (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_valve)
As energy generator ?
20 years before,applied  :

http://www.rexresearch.com/Kutienkov/kutienkov.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/Kutienkov/kutienkov.htm)
As compressed/concentrated solar technology cool tube :

https://www.eputec.de/das-wirbelrohr-verstehen-so-funktioniert-die-kuehlung-bis-46-c/ (https://www.eputec.de/das-wirbelrohr-verstehen-so-funktioniert-die-kuehlung-bis-46-c/)

https://ro.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Constantinescu
https://ro.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teoria_sonicit%C4%83%C8%9Bii

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triboelectric_effect
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41427-019-0176-0
( partly piezo-/pyro- electric effect)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: stivep on August 15, 2023, 01:29:17 PM
for these interested   in a subject  related to another Serbian Milutin Miletic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZckaMOlixqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZckaMOlixqw) - The video is Russian
subject was discussed  here:
https://overunity.com/11029/safe-one-wire-energy-transfer-by-serbian-inventor-milutin-miletic/msg293408/#msg293408 (https://overunity.com/11029/safe-one-wire-energy-transfer-by-serbian-inventor-milutin-miletic/msg293408/#msg293408)
Wesley
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on August 15, 2023, 06:00:34 PM
A new official video by Veljko Milkovic:

Oscillations are a Cheaper Energy Technology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCzgnDGnys0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 15, 2023, 11:46:44 PM
So the weight and fulcrum are connected with flexible (spring) steel plating? Then the energy put in is actually far greater than the mass and height, there is also flex that takes considerable force to bend any degree/distance. That could explain the weight just swinging like mad that way, there is a lot more going on than a pendulum.
That flex ought to shorten the natural swing period? But consistently so throughout the swing down sequence, or progressively/degressively?

But why would a 12x OU device need that flex? And still it winds down. The air resistance is not work down, but an excuse to see it stop moving. Then how much work can it dow without winding down? Never ever seen a constant runner, even without positive output.

I liked this to a singer that once had promise, but didn't score a hit, or even a single full theater, but the avid fans keep buying the horrible records as some sort of cult following. But there's not supporting the singer ironically, they really think he's the best there ever was even if no-one else ever seems to hear anything good.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 16, 2023, 12:21:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5C9NOHxC0&t=243s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5C9NOHxC0&t=243s)

1.  Systems that work according to his idea, instead of thermal and electric energy, use mechanical as a drive, in the knowledge and application of which this inventor is at the forefront in the world. Thus, a power plant with mechanical drive was built in India according to the idea of Veljko Milković, which works as a closed system (perpetuum mobile), the first and unique in the world. After the realization of the mechanical power plant, it further produces electricity almost on its own and free of charge.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 16, 2023, 01:33:57 PM
Fake news, it's not a perpetuum mobile. It's a lever you need to keep pulling on even if there is no work done.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 16, 2023, 08:03:55 PM
to be,or not to be : perpetuum motive looped

2014

https://www.hypeness.com.br/2014/01/empresa-brasileira-desenvolve-maquina-que-gera-energia-usando-a-gravidade/ (https://www.hypeness.com.br/2014/01/empresa-brasileira-desenvolve-maquina-que-gera-energia-usando-a-gravidade/)
'...... Vamos aguardar. ....'

2015
2016

2017
........

2023  Somos ainda a aguardar ?

 ;)
wmbr
OCWL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on August 16, 2023, 09:39:00 PM
It seems me,  a sputnik photo on this forum was  posted a few years ago.
The photo was of this hangar, and a mountain of rusty iron nearby, similar to these structures. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 17, 2023, 03:49:12 PM
I remember such pictures.
Some people (bless them) just have the money and skill to build what they think will work.

We've all seen it a lot in the OU commity: "surely it'll overcome friction when it's bigger". "All it needs is an escape latch here and there and then it'll be a runner, sor sure, no need to do a scale proto first".
And then they spend all their available resources on the build, which then ends up being mostly a photo opportunity.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 18, 2023, 05:16:02 PM
From South America we also remember Sixto Ramos ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=okBaPy8uK_o (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=okBaPy8uK_o)

https://m.facebook.com/FernandoSixtoRamos/ (https://m.facebook.com/FernandoSixtoRamos/)


Replication trial

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=40s_3qWlz68 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=40s_3qWlz68)


Felix Wuerth  converter replication :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpbeboHb6A (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpbeboHb6A)
Impressive the trust and fascination to invest hours of work,material and finances !
Believe in ....!?

The newest entry now the Aaron Pascoe Gearbox GGOE

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/084102533/publication/WO2023081960A1?q=pn%3DAU2021266261B1
A mix from both above ?

wmbr
OCWL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 19, 2023, 08:02:21 PM
From South America we also remember Sixto Ramos ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=okBaPy8uK_o (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=okBaPy8uK_o)

https://m.facebook.com/FernandoSixtoRamos/ (https://m.facebook.com/FernandoSixtoRamos/)


Replication trial

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=40s_3qWlz68 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=40s_3qWlz68)


Felix Wuerth  converter replication :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpbeboHb6A (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpbeboHb6A)
Impressive the trust and fascination to invest hours of work,material and finances !
Believe in ....!?

The newest entry now the Aaron Pascoe Gearbox GGOE

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/084102533/publication/WO2023081960A1?q=pn%3DAU2021266261B1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/084102533/publication/WO2023081960A1?q=pn%3DAU2021266261B1)
A mix from both above ?

wmbr
OCWL
I've gotten wary of stuff you post. Is there ANYTHING in your many links that resembles ANYTHING on topic?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ramset on August 19, 2023, 08:14:51 PM
to be,or not to be : perpetuum motive looped

2014

https://www.hypeness.com.br/2014/01/empresa-brasileira-desenvolve-maquina-que-gera-energia-usando-a-gravidade/ (https://www.hypeness.com.br/2014/01/empresa-brasileira-desenvolve-maquina-que-gera-energia-usando-a-gravidade/)
'...... Vamos aguardar. ....'

2015
2016

2017
........

2023  Somos ainda a aguardar ?

 ;)
wmbr
OCWL
Well
I like that lanca reposted on the bread slicer ( forum members named it here years back)
I had spoken with person working on the slicer
( there was also one in USA ?
Person I spoke with was very involved in project
And said his Boss liked to play with idea
But had not gotten it running autonomously


Hobby ..

Has lotta of “swingy “ bits ..
Maybe topic OP could offer suggestions to get it going ?
I can see if I still have persons contact
And connect them?



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 20, 2023, 11:45:43 AM
#4461 and #4460 :

Adolf Schneider + HES conference 14.10.2023

Adolf Schneider + Felix Wuerth anno 2......:

Adolf Schneider +

https://www.google.com/search?q=borderlands.de+Milkovi%C4%87&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m

https://www.google.com/search?q=borderlands.de+felix+wuerth&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=borderlands.de+felix+wuerth&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)
We see basic idea replicators ! By 100% ( given ?) mechanical concept knowledge ?
Re-/search :
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558528099&ei=SuThZMGGI_W6kdUPxrG3iAw&q=fernando+sixto+ramos+generator&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjB08ut_eqAAxV1XaQEHcbYDcEQ7Al6BAgKEAI&biw=600&bih=784#imgrc=-w-w17QuTBSy4M (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558528099&ei=SuThZMGGI_W6kdUPxrG3iAw&q=fernando+sixto+ramos+generator&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjB08ut_eqAAxV1XaQEHcbYDcEQ7Al6BAgKEAI&biw=600&bih=784#imgrc=-w-w17QuTBSy4M)

Concepts relationship :

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/mechanical-amplifiers/331-fernando-sixto-ramos-solano-s-force-multiplier-system (https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/mechanical-amplifiers/331-fernando-sixto-ramos-solano-s-force-multiplier-system)
The back and forth motion of the weight and connecting rod experiences quite a bit of reaction when it goes in the opposite direction, but this reaction doesn't buck the input - it assists it in the same direction as mentioned in previous posts, thus violating the third law of motion just like Veljko's mechanical oscillator.

Sixto Ramos,Wuerth and some others topic unrelated ?  ::)
Are the comments to the published replicators videos a help or sarcastic concurrent/opponent answer !?

We see the invention in the ' News',a progressive help ?
We see inventors national/international Award prized,a progressive help ?

To learn from the fails and errors from others,physical re-/search findings or not ( wrong maths,wrong measurements ) !
Being concentrate to the re-/ap-plicated success from some un-/known  developper !

wmbr
OCWL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 20, 2023, 01:46:01 PM
Lanca, why are you bringing all this into the discussion here? Other forums gave up on that fake multiplier a DECADE ago because there was no reason to belief it would introduce free energy all, even if it didn't shake itself to bits.
Other failed mechanical systems don't help the Milkovic scam being proved or discproved, only waste the time of people who want to work of more promising mechanisms.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on August 20, 2023, 01:48:09 PM
SO LANCA WITHOUT A DOUBT IT IS AN OVER UNITY MACHINE. THANKS FOR YOUR
RESEARCH. I OWN YOU ONE BOTTLE OF COCONUT TODDY.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 20, 2023, 01:52:20 PM
Lanca, why are you bringing all this into the discussion here? Other forums gave up on that fake multiplier a DECADE ago because there was no reason to belief it would introduce free energy all, even if it didn't shake itself to bits.
Other failed mechanical systems don't help the Milkovic scam being proved or discproved, only waste the time of people who want to work of more promising mechanisms.
Applied mechanics,approved dis-/ad-vantages :

https://www.inmotive.com/ (https://www.inmotive.com/)
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558546571&q=windhexe+polifka&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjO4JP8leuAAxVDgP0HHUJYDTUQ7xZ6BAgCEAE (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558546571&q=windhexe+polifka&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjO4JP8leuAAxVDgP0HHUJYDTUQ7xZ6BAgCEAE)
Earth rock pulverizing ?
Coal pulverizing,for graphite/finer : graphene !?

Or/and  to Usherenko mechanics ?
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558546571&q=usherenko+effect&oq=usherenko+effect&aqs=heirloom-srp (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558546571&q=usherenko+effect&oq=usherenko+effect&aqs=heirloom-srp)..
Water basin,in the XYZ middle an Usherenko resonator and ..... !? Basin solid/liquid material filled  !?
FE device application dis-/advantage,not the device itself,is in IMPORTANCE : eco-/logical/nomical !
And never the inventor/discloser !
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 20, 2023, 01:57:00 PM
SO LANCA WITHOUT A DOUBT IT IS AN OVER UNITY MACHINE. THANKS FOR YOUR
RESEARCH. I OWN YOU ONE BOTTLE OF COCONUT TODDY.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5_kKEi7Ovk
Cheers

OCWL
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 20, 2023, 06:23:40 PM
Applied mechanics,approved dis-/ad-vantages :

https://www.inmotive.com/ (https://www.inmotive.com/)
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558546571&q=windhexe+polifka&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjO4JP8leuAAxVDgP0HHUJYDTUQ7xZ6BAgCEAE (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558546571&q=windhexe+polifka&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjO4JP8leuAAxVDgP0HHUJYDTUQ7xZ6BAgCEAE)
Earth rock pulverizing ?
Coal pulverizing,for graphite/finer : graphene !?

Or/and  to Usherenko mechanics ?
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558546571&q=usherenko+effect&oq=usherenko+effect&aqs=heirloom-srp (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=558546571&q=usherenko+effect&oq=usherenko+effect&aqs=heirloom-srp)..
Water basin,in the XYZ middle an Usherenko resonator and ..... !? Basin solid/liquid material filled  !?
FE device application dis-/advantage,not the device itself,is in IMPORTANCE : eco-/logical/nomical !
And never the inventor/discloser !
Is a straight answer in straight language so much to ask? You just offer MORE links with half sentences. How is anyone to hope that they're going to be spending their time well clicking on any of that?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on August 20, 2023, 06:30:57 PM
Lanca you are coming up with more super interesting stuff. Thanks.
I still think your grand father is AI.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on August 20, 2023, 06:54:40 PM
Is a straight answer in straight language so much to ask? You just offer MORE links with half sentences. How is anyone to hope that they're going to be spending their time well clicking on any of that?
At first they have to know/try right the apply from https://studyflix.de/ingenieurwissenschaften/winkelgeschwindigkeit-1533
horizontal and/or vertical,in classical mechanics and in EE : electro-static/magnetic  coil mechanics
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 22, 2023, 11:39:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZyA4YVwpVM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZyA4YVwpVM)

mechanical energy recycling is possible - Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 22, 2023, 02:06:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZyA4YVwpVM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZyA4YVwpVM)

mechanical energy recycling is possible - Veljko Milković
Empty talk from a failed inventor but exceedingly successful cult leader, with just one semi original idea.

If you cut the video in 3 pieces, you have 3 videos OF 31 SECONDS to upload individually.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 29, 2023, 02:20:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaqasuy0eQs



Over 500 companies in South-East Asia apply the patents of Veljko Milkovic's two-stage oscillator in their production
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 29, 2023, 02:21:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCamhkM1xOY

Over 500 companies in South-East Asia apply the patents of Veljko Milkovic's two-stage oscillator in their production
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on August 29, 2023, 03:19:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGKlnrqZYMY

New video Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on August 31, 2023, 01:44:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGKlnrqZYMY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGKlnrqZYMY)

New video Veljko Milković
Will he live long enough to see 1.01 COP with his single OU attempt invention?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 01, 2023, 03:02:33 PM
New conference paper:

EVOLUTION OF ENERGY AND LIVING MATTER IN THE BIOSPHERE (2022)
V. V. Ermakov

"Как альтернативные источники энергии следует отметить: аккумуляторы солнечной энергии,
преобразователи энергии ветра, приливов-отливов, энергия термальных источников, растительное
сырье, включая гегнетически модифицированные микроводоросли (получение биогаза), энергия
колебательных процессов и гравитации, осциллатор Veljko Milkovic [42]."

[As alternative energy sources, it should be noted: solar energy batteries,
converters of wind energy, ebbs and flows, energy of thermal springs, vegetable
raw materials, including genetically modified microalgae (biogas production), energy
oscillatory processes and gravity, oscillator Veljko Milkovic [42]."

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/95484971/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B_%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%8F%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6.%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%8B_%D1%82%D1%8F%D0%B6.%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8-libre.pdf?1670620164=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3D95484971.pdf&Expires=1693576915&Signature=BcoSRiO9IKCrHr9Cv2X-CNsnFOHDE~fcfQ210wsKBM-xq3VMHDhP8TmCV-6TTkGRUCrel~LxS6Icehw9Y4~TlYqeGQzXXyTBA1dfQ8JRGiIzwJ-23riQ28iR7P28uU2m7L4x6JRQhtZRSS65bZbdhewgM9QkHY3nN71ZNmOnH2XdIVoLJom4NaFSbMY2AFv67dYyzTcKy1WWnIwFWypCSdgGpylmehwZgPesPjY1pN1bORi5TNNavW1emwHLQCYjOT63ZkLRFiaOOvGmXk2CiE5JEY7sZ2ZnaMC1kQlKpiinkxkHMUA0sY1U-qL3IBX1VWHxEw9cWKb-M6TyjMvn8w__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA#page=5https://www.academia.edu/download/95484971/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B_%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%8F%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6.%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%8B_%D1%82%D1%8F%D0%B6.%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8.pdf#page=5
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 01, 2023, 07:13:01 PM
Why would the 2-stage oscillator be placed in that line-up? It's just a wobbly lever, less comes out than you put in and the energy storage capacity is too impractical for any use thus far.
With most of the other sources at least there is a reasonably predictable form of energy being tapped. The sun, stored chemical energy, etc. The 2-stage osscilator is like a can opener. You do a big thing and a smaller thing nearby happens, minus losses..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 03, 2023, 05:25:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un6h6ped31A

Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.

Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 350 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.

The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

The world’s companies have made use of this invention because its use reduces the need for non-renewable energy sources in the wide range of jobs for which this machine is used.

Through such achievements, Veljko Milković laid the path for new challenges in physics in the 21st century, which could be the forerunner of the new great scientific revolution.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: lancaIV on September 03, 2023, 05:40:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un6h6ped31A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un6h6ped31A)

Veljko Milković, an academic and inventor from Novi Sad, has done something great that has not been done by any Serbian inventor before.

Milković invention of the mechanical oscillator is widely used worldwide, a testament to the fact that over 350 foreign companies use, sell and manufacture pendulum-based machines used in the heavy industry.

The purpose of the two-stage meganic oscillator is multifaceted, because the character of the machine (two-arm lever with pendulum) allows its use as a press, water pumps, compressor, crusher, power generator, mini power plants.

The world’s companies have made use of this invention because its use reduces the need for non-renewable energy sources in the wide range of jobs for which this machine is used.

Through such achievements, Veljko Milković laid the path for new challenges in physics in the 21st century, which could be the forerunner of the new great scientific revolution.
From more than 20 years wayback individual  view
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=Alexander+Manfred+Gregor&IN=&CPC=&IC=

why not ?

Just do it
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 05, 2023, 02:01:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sTQ3MOodZDc (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sTQ3MOodZDc)

A simple mechanism with new mechanical effects, represents the source of clean mechanical energy. This gravity machine has only two main parts: a massive lever and a pendulum. The interaction of the two-stage lever multiplies input energy into output energy convenient for useful work (mechanical hammer, press, pump, transmission, electric generator...)...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 07, 2023, 04:43:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sTQ3MOodZDc (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sTQ3MOodZDc)

A simple mechanism with new mechanical effects, represents the source of clean mechanical energy. This gravity machine has only two main parts: a massive lever and a pendulum. The interaction of the two-stage lever multiplies input energy into output energy convenient for useful work (mechanical hammer, press, pump, transmission, electric generator...)...
Are you a bot? Stefan, is it?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 11, 2023, 02:22:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDZ_z3MPrjE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDZ_z3MPrjE)

The oil pump VS a two-stage oscillator
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 11, 2023, 04:16:01 PM
A replica of Veljko Milkovic's pendulum cart experiment

How to make a Pendulum Powered Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW-8zNhAFXw
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 12, 2023, 12:03:39 AM
A replica of Veljko Milkovic's pendulum cart experiment

How to make a Pendulum Powered Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW-8zNhAFXw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW-8zNhAFXw)
The non-pendulum method doesn't exactly get a fair chance here.
With the weight on a pulley with freewheel, I bet it could move a car of the same weight just as far. It's all about overcoming stiction and rolling resistance, and indeed preventing rollback.

They could be fair and redo the first experiment with the car blocked from behind and the from stop fully horizontal.

All I am shown here is just so one-sided and unfair to the viewer.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 12, 2023, 04:28:11 PM

another one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlBBbwC_jzs


+ explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0YI3DlBYXQ
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 13, 2023, 12:16:13 AM
another one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlBBbwC_jzs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlBBbwC_jzs)


+ explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0YI3DlBYXQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0YI3DlBYXQ)
At the start there is no centrifugal force at the extreme end (weight arrives at the top by Mr. Hand and cart is held in place), so it will never even out back to the right after any amount of swings. Start the swings from the bottom position with an on board activator and try again.

Why are the "explanations" when it comes to the Milkovic inspired contraption so utterly bad? Has ANY of these videos EVER withstood the test of time? You guys keep shooting them at us, and there never seems to be substance. Not a grain of hope there will be a single Watt of net gain extracted after decades of "research" which is mostly "building a swing and mislabeling it".

It's presented as if we're being shown the keys to the universe, but really someone is showing that they didn't think it through completely and just conclude that is the Milkovic free energy for everyone effect.

These videos should be mandatory in elementary schools, for kids to figure out why this might be utter nonsense.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 14, 2023, 11:16:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8jJu-TcjzI

Veljko Milković China company
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 14, 2023, 08:39:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8jJu-TcjzI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8jJu-TcjzI)

Veljko Milković China company
China loves random hype words.
None of those companies have found a single free Joule from the construction.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 15, 2023, 06:38:19 PM
12x more output than input.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on September 16, 2023, 02:50:50 PM
What is missing in the moving car is measurements. The work in to lift the pendulum and then the work done - moving/rolling of the car which has to be very little.

So I say it is deceiving. Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 16, 2023, 08:50:49 PM
What is missing in the moving car is measurements. The work in to lift the pendulum and then the work done - moving/rolling of the car which has to be very little.

So I say it is deceiving. Norman
We're supposed to applaud the genius, but I think with a some basic craft supplies, we can get that cart to full a lot further while using the vertical drop on the weight.

All the se self applauding "demonstrations" seem to divide humanity in two groups: those that will fight to the death to defend how this is obviously overunity, and those that don't see anything special going on.

Milkovic disciples: please show us ONE JOULE of overunity. COP 1.1 is plenty to loop this and supply the world with cheap energy. But it's sub COP=1, so we are just going to get ever more pointless demontrations and mumbling from the "inventor".
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 18, 2023, 04:00:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvUlHczaxOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvUlHczaxOs)

Step by step Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 18, 2023, 11:02:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvUlHczaxOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvUlHczaxOs)

Step by step Veljko Milković
30 years. But where is the first Joule of anomalous energy out?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 19, 2023, 04:01:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPYXueqws5E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPYXueqws5E)
Are they power lines? Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 19, 2023, 04:28:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPYXueqws5E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPYXueqws5E)
Are they power lines? Veljko Milković
He complains about critics.
30 years of this "invention" and no meaningful development. Still zero Joules bought into our frame of reference.
I'll a dangly lever. It may increase force, but only for shorter time and/or distance.
100% conventional.

What really interests me about this cult is now: Why?
Why this non-stop flow of links, empty quotes, vague references, why is it all about this 2-stage oscillator still?
On this forum we have hundreds of people who tried to get OU and, failed. Many still claim they really have it, but they can't be bothered to demonstrate or explain in a way any human can understand.
Yet with this guy, 30 years later, he still has an army of soldiers posting about his every word and sketch.

What makes this man so special? Or is it something about the 2-stage gallow? the slight complexity misunderstood for magic from the gods?
I honestly, genuinely, wonder what it's all about. If we could harness this effort and energy, and put it to some actual good use...we could actually achieve OU. Not with this invention though.
Call it the Milkovic Institute for OU for all I care, just get all that human energy to do something useful, but PLEASE stop making it about the 2-stage disappointment. Open your heart for other ways to achieve something. You can do 3 ceremonies to honor your inspiration Veljko Milković, name all your inventions after him for his greater glory, but just get something NEW going. Let him be the jumping board to your own genius. Does he himself want all genius to end with his little idea from 30 year ago, does he?
No holy book concluded that all divinity would end after its last page. No need for the magic of invention, not even Slavic inventions, to end with Milkovic's spark 30 years ago. It can be the start, but the end result needs not be like his dangly lever, does it? Because then you're just worshiping an object and closing off from all creativity, all progress.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TommeyReed on September 22, 2023, 01:15:54 PM
Cloxxki,
 
Let's me make this very clear to you, you're nothing more then a insult to others and don't ever post another comment on my You Tube or my forums.

You are nothing more then a BS'er who have nothing to show and think you know it all.

You're just like your friend SL, a waste of oxygen on forums like this.

Again you're ban from making any comment on my build and You Tube, I hope this hurt your ego!

Some people you can't be nice too, especially when they keep insulting and telling other they are doing it wrong.

Tom
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on September 22, 2023, 01:40:49 PM
I CONCUR.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 22, 2023, 04:37:18 PM
Cloxxki,
 
Let's me make this very clear to you, you're nothing more then a insult to others and don't ever post another comment on my You Tube or my forums.

You are nothing more then a BS'er who have nothing to show and think you know it all.

You're just like your friend SL, a waste of oxygen on forums like this.

Again you're ban from making any comment on my build and You Tube, I hope this hurt your ego!

Some people you can't be nice too, especially when they keep insulting and telling other they are doing it wrong.

Tom
SL is not my friend, just because you dislike two people doesn't make them friends. The world seems to have plenty of people you don't like, we can't all become friends for your convenience.

My ego isn't as large as you may perceive it. Perhaps you're being his by a mirror image.

We can only notice bad qualities in others that we also have within ourselves. Whenever I criticise another, and am honest to myself, I find this to be true.

Someone with a small ego will relish every or suggestion correction they get, as it allows them to grow, do better, or understand better. A fragile ego will receive even the kindest well meant suggestion as a defamatory attack.

If you want to boss someone around and expect them to back down just because, you may want to try someone else. But for their sake, i prefer you wouldn't.

All I can do for you today it to suggest introspection. Tomorrow the world just might look a bit different.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: TommeyReed on September 22, 2023, 05:20:32 PM
Cloxxki,

Again, just so you fully understand not to go on my You Tube and post insults or what you think.

You clearly are all talk and nothing to show. I would think you fully understand this by now when I have deleted your comments in the past.

You seem like a child who can't realized you are not wanted on your foolish opinions with no credibility of building anything, yet your own ego is useless in the real world.

Tom

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 22, 2023, 05:33:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8jJu-TcjzI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8jJu-TcjzI)

Veljko Milković China company


Just more translations of the same garbage.
These systems are not OU
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 22, 2023, 05:51:49 PM
By calculating the force at bottom dead center, we find that 1/36 of the total centrifugal force of oscillation is imparted twice per cycle.


https://www.lehman.edu/faculty/anchordoqui/chapter24.pdf (https://www.lehman.edu/faculty/anchordoqui/chapter24.pdf)


The work performed by this force is given as a function of freedom of vertical translation
Over [2* (1/16)/2]T or simplified to1/8T/2 or 1/16T


T being the period of oscillation


The summation of fractions of T at one degree angular intervals
across a 20 degree span, this is 10 degrees before and after bottom dead center.
Gives the total force over distance as the bob rises and falls with respect to its’ arc


Everyone following? If not, please take a moment to review the above.


This fractionally derived work function is applied to the pumping mechanism,
given its’ efficiency, some of this work is converted to pumping power
Some is lost, and a small fraction is recycled back into momentum as the vertical
displacement of the pendulum shaft changes locations in free space.


To put that last part in terms one can comprehend, positive vertical displacement subtracts from
strain on the shaft which translates momentum along the vector of travel
(this being the instantaneous arc as the height changes)
Momentum is conserved, therefore any remaining momentum not consumed by the pump
is converted to an increase in periodicity, however, this increase is less than
the decrease in periodicity caused by the downward translation during the first half of the cycle,
by an amount precisely equal to the momentum taken in by the pump.


The work function available to the pumping system,
As well as all system losses, can be easily calculated for any given pendulum.
As a function of vertical translational freedom.


In terms of energy in and out,
E=mgh


The pendulum mass contains more potential energy before release
than the final quantity of water pumped by its swings.



Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 22, 2023, 11:27:50 PM
Cloxxki,

Again, just so you fully understand not to go on my You Tube and post insults or what you think.

You clearly are all talk and nothing to show. I would think you fully understand this by now when I have deleted your comments in the past.

You seem like a child who can't realized you are not wanted on your foolish opinions with no credibility of building anything, yet your own ego is useless in the real world.

Tom
That's the downside for you, I now realize...
You banned me from your subforum, so now you have to come after me to settle some imaginative score. Hilarious, actually. Getting rid of your cherry picked enemy wasn't good enough. Need to stey IINNN the pool of stenching negativity. It can be addictive to some people, they just don't feel safe within themselves without sometime to actively loathe and antegonize. Perhaps I am getting that wrong, but it's starting to look that way now.

If that's winning to you, just deleting what you don't like, I suppose congratulations are in order.

One day you will realize that I've not even began to insult you. It's like I'm sitting on a topped off armory just throwing balls of cleenex at you. And there you are, doubling down, tripling down, insulting as much as you think you can get away with before Stefan does to you what you like to do to people you disagree with...

Are you actively trying to make me show my cards? Do I seem like someone who can't do devatating damage, with my words and creative powers alone? Use your imagination if you have any, and realize that you're perhaps slightly in over your head here. When your dancing around the ring and your opponent is just brushing his beard while you're transitioning from punshes to kicks already...you're in the wrong ring, with the wrong opponent.

You appear to be so full of negativity towards your fellow man, that you are like the dog biting the hand trying to pull it from the ice water. As long as you bathe yourself in that negativity, it will all seem to make sense and be oh so justified. So so justified. That'll teach them.

There is still a chance for you to exercise introspection and if you feel so inclined, come back on your words. Big men do that sometimes.
Are you capable of apologies? Are you even capable or facing your errors? Don't do it to try and evade my ultimate wrath, do it for your own inner development. No need to even tell me about it. But you will need to stop being unfair to me, and to anyone else for that matter. The next time you engage someone like you are engaging me, I just might take that more personally than you seeking me out here.

Psst, I'm actually a fan and want to see you succeed. You seem to want to succeed for your own greater glory and don't actually want to be helped, afraid it'll take the shine from your trophies. You think you're having it bad with me? Imagine what Stefan's dealing with being the face and admin of this movement. Your energy might be better used to fight his detractors than inventing and fighting some of your own.

I've written this more for the benefit of others than for Tommey's, and I've rarely seen him exhibit having actually taken in what I've offered. I'm happy to be corrected and refuted, it gets me further in life and I can serve other better.

Back down Tommey, this is a fume you might not want to light up, indoors nor outdoors. You've bravely jumped into a dark swamp to wrestly the little little gator you think you spotted. But he has a Zippo lighter and he knows how to stir the bottom of the swamp to make the methane really go nuts.
Let intuition take over and make you realize that you've done more than enough to express what you had to share. Is there even a tiny part of you that remembers being wrong about something, and this statistically, it just might be one of those times? What if you're really royally effing up to needlessly antagonizing this one over and over? A little ice cube in the water could actually be attached to a giant iceberg that's just about to tip over.
Be smart, not brave Tommey. You don't know whether it's legit brave or right down stupid. Take some time to let it all sink in, doesn't seem you're in the mood to make any wise decisions today...
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on September 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PM
By calculating the force at bottom dead center, we find that 1/36 of the total centrifugal force of oscillation is imparted twice per cycle.


https://www.lehman.edu/faculty/anchordoqui/chapter24.pdf (https://www.lehman.edu/faculty/anchordoqui/chapter24.pdf)


The work performed by this force is given as a function of freedom of vertical translation
Over [2* (1/16)/2]T or simplified to1/8T/2 or 1/16T


T being the period of oscillation


The summation of fractions of T at one degree angular intervals
across a 20 degree span, this is 10 degrees before and after bottom dead center.
Gives the total force over distance as the bob rises and falls with respect to its’ arc


Everyone following? If not, please take a moment to review the above.


This fractionally derived work function is applied to the pumping mechanism,
given its’ efficiency, some of this work is converted to pumping power
Some is lost, and a small fraction is recycled back into momentum as the vertical
displacement of the pendulum shaft changes locations in free space.


To put that last part in terms one can comprehend, positive vertical displacement subtracts from
strain on the shaft which translates momentum along the vector of travel
(this being the instantaneous arc as the height changes)
Momentum is conserved, therefore any remaining momentum not consumed by the pump
is converted to an increase in periodicity, however, this increase is less than
the decrease in periodicity caused by the downward translation during the first half of the cycle,
by an amount precisely equal to the momentum taken in by the pump.


The work function available to the pumping system,
As well as all system losses, can be easily calculated for any given pendulum.
As a function of vertical translational freedom.


In terms of energy in and out,
E=mgh


The pendulum mass contains more potential energy before release
than the final quantity of water pumped by its swings.
That was amazing!!

Thank you, I'll reference it later if I come across this theory elsewhere, and credit you.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on September 26, 2023, 09:17:21 AM
And you had a Tinselkoala on the forum, where did he go?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 26, 2023, 03:06:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUl8C0cEsQ
Veljko Milković video
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 26, 2023, 07:30:27 PM
That was amazing!!

Thank you, I'll reference it later if I come across this theory elsewhere, and credit you.


The credit does not belong to me, i can confirm the mathematical areas of their work,
 BUt credit goes to the users of this forum that tried to stop this nonsense at the beginning of this,
Now the longest thread on the forum…..
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 26, 2023, 07:32:09 PM
and also that noone has a machine that lives up to the title,
after 300 pages of discussion.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on September 27, 2023, 01:18:36 PM
A new official video by Veljko Milkovic:

Advantage of Oscillations over Rotations is Proven

The End of Anti-Thesis Cash Award after 7 Years

"I want to declare that oscillations are far more efficient than various types of rotations. A little more than seven years ago, a prize of 100,000 RSD was announced for an experimental anti-thesis. If anyone brought any rotary device and proved the anti-thesis, he would receive the cash award of 100,000 RSD. In the last year I have increased that award to all my property. And now I want to finish the competition since no one, absolutely no one, has brought any rotary device so far to confirm or question this. Thus, no more prizes. Seven years was quite enough."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqV9nn659I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqV9nn659I)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on September 27, 2023, 07:42:30 PM
DUUUR. JUST PASSING BY.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on September 28, 2023, 11:18:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jn4t4lDrs

A new beginning-Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 01, 2023, 05:34:58 PM
Some Milkovic's pendulum replicas we did not see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1x-5DxctHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv_zExpWNOQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alcpy4-nehM
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 03, 2023, 03:14:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmAzsW9aH4U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmAzsW9aH4U)

New video Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 06, 2023, 10:47:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUQNfAra-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUQNfAra-0)

In 2016, Veljko Milković announced in his book Energy turning point or apocalypse that he will reward with 100,000 dinars the person who succeeds in proving that rotations are more efficient than oscillations. In 2022, he raised the value of the reward to his total assets if someone manages to prove the above, but no one came forward.
 
With this address, Veljko Milković announces that the competition for the award is over, since no one has managed to prove the antithesis of what he claims: that oscillations are far more efficient than rotations.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: norman6538 on October 06, 2023, 04:44:57 PM
I have not seen anyone properly measure the input and output (If I missed it please point me to it).

So I propose the following test.
1. use a weight on a rope/string to start/run the machine measuring how far it falls.

2. using the output of the machine lift another weight on a rope/string and measure
  how far it is lifted.

That will eliminate equipment calibration errors etc.

I believe that by combining several forces OU is possible.
An example of this is my pendulum that starts at 2 o'clock and falls downs to 6 and on up to noon and then falls back down slowly and oscillates a bit but slowly.
Involved is gravity and magnets of correct polarity and positions. Switch the polarities and it does not go past 10 am.

Then the proof that everyone is looking for is to cascade 2 of them together so that they are looped and run continuously.


Norman
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 06, 2023, 06:12:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUQNfAra-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUQNfAra-0)

In 2016, Veljko Milković announced in his book Energy turning point or apocalypse that he will reward with 100,000 dinars the person who succeeds in proving that rotations are more efficient than oscillations. In 2022, he raised the value of the reward to his total assets if someone manages to prove the above, but no one came forward.
 
With this address, Veljko Milković announces that the competition for the award is over, since no one has managed to prove the antithesis of what he claims: that oscillations are far more efficient than rotations.
So already in 2016 he tried to change the narrative from "12x OU" to "a pendulum is more efficient than a flywheel", but he lets OTHERS do the work? All that resource to be wasted on his effort to perpetuate his false glory over a side-discussion? Come up with a looped 2SO if it's supposedly so efficient! Even at COP 1.01 it should be loopable then, right?

We'd better award BIG MONEY to the first person who manages to loop the 2SO, which should be the minimum for proof it's overunity. It's all weights on levers and bearings so losses can be kept well under 1%.
Show us a looped system that powers ANY kind of load without draining the driving resource. No added solar panels or heat engines, just the 2SO.

Which built came closest? Which even ran for 10 minutes without loss of amplitude nor frequency?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 10, 2023, 10:42:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBXIbh35V50

The End of Anti-Thesis Cash Award after 7 Years

"I want to declare that oscillations are far more efficient than various types of rotations. A little more than seven years ago, a prize of 100,000 RSD was announced for an experimental anti-thesis. If anyone brought any rotary device and proved the anti-thesis, he would receive the cash award of 100,000 RSD. In the last year I have increased that award to all my property. And now I want to finish the competition since no one, absolutely no one, has brought any rotary device so far to confirm or question this. Thus, no more prizes. Seven years was quite enough."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 10, 2023, 10:45:17 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBXIbh35V50 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBXIbh35V50)

The End of Anti-Thesis Cash Award after 7 Years

"I want to declare that oscillations are far more efficient than various types of rotations. A little more than seven years ago, a prize of 100,000 RSD was announced for an experimental anti-thesis. If anyone brought any rotary device and proved the anti-thesis, he would receive the cash award of 100,000 RSD. In the last year I have increased that award to all my property. And now I want to finish the competition since no one, absolutely no one, has brought any rotary device so far to confirm or question this. Thus, no more prizes. Seven years was quite enough."
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 10, 2023, 10:46:47 AM
So already in 2016 he tried to change the narrative from "12x OU" to "a pendulum is more efficient than a flywheel", but he lets OTHERS do the work? All that resource to be wasted on his effort to perpetuate his false glory over a side-discussion? Come up with a looped 2SO if it's supposedly so efficient! Even at COP 1.01 it should be loopable then, right?

We'd better award BIG MONEY to the first person who manages to loop the 2SO, which should be the minimum for proof it's overunity. It's all weights on levers and bearings so losses can be kept well under 1%.
Show us a looped system that powers ANY kind of load without draining the driving resource. No added solar panels or heat engines, just the 2SO.

Which built came closest? Which even ran for 10 minutes without loss of amplitude nor frequency?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 10, 2023, 10:47:06 AM
here you go, make and prove the antithesis, when you have nothing better to do than to follow Veljko Milković's footsteps, you are either a perfect person or you are obsessed with Mr. Milković. something seriously wrong with you
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 11, 2023, 11:50:09 PM
here you go, make and prove the antithesis, when you have nothing better to do than to follow Veljko Milković's footsteps, you are either a perfect person or you are obsessed with Mr. Milković. something seriously wrong with you
I will do so after you prove that the sky doesn't look blue and the grass doesn't look green.

To wager with Milkovic who sets and changes his own claims, is for fools.
From 12x out vs in to battling the flywheel. But it's to his detractors to now invest their time into a hugely pointless discussion. Flywheels are super close to 100% efficient, if designed with commitment. To theoretically be closer to 100% doesn't help mankind a thing.
I'll ask this: what's the 2SO with the lowest number of bearing and the least aerodynamic drag? A flywheel can approach zero drag on a single bearing.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 12, 2023, 09:41:26 AM
I will do so after you prove that the sky doesn't look blue and the grass doesn't look green.

To wager with Milkovic who sets and changes his own claims, is for fools.
From 12x out vs in to battling the flywheel. But it's to his detractors to now invest their time into a hugely pointless discussion. Flywheels are super close to 100% efficient, if designed with commitment. To theoretically be closer to 100% doesn't help mankind a thing.
I'll ask this: what's the 2SO with the lowest number of bearing and the least aerodynamic drag? A flywheel can approach zero drag on a single bearing.


Bring all the available funds on a rotating basis and prove it and of course it is not worth the people since they are not fools. So this kind of behavior, that is, insulting people, is subject to criminal charges
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 12, 2023, 09:42:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUQdh3duiI8

New video Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 12, 2023, 10:28:55 AM

Bring all the available funds on a rotating basis and prove it and of course it is not worth the people since they are not fools. So this kind of behavior, that is, insulting people, is subject to criminal charges
Criminal charges in which country, exactly?
For calling out an inventoir that started out claiming COP 12 and has reduced that to "more efficient than flywheel", but makes it the job of detractors to invest in disproving his unlikely claim? He doesn't show where he is overcoming the majority of the induced bearing and air resistance over a flywheel. But he employs an army of minions to sing his glory and a defend his questionnable honor...

Imagine Milkovic would task his many web minions with the creation of a wholly new energy invention that outperforms a flywheel... But no, there is only one task: pester the whole new energy community with ever more tidbits about the inventor, his ego and lack of new applications. On this forums there are hundreds of inventors who after their first invention immediately moved on to the next, and the next. Why is the 2SO clan so stuck on this thing, making it the job of the world and the greatest brains on it, to find a use for it?

@Stefan: please change the title to "more efficient that a flywheel" as the inventor and his minions seems to have giving up on that, it tasks them with the burning of looping the little dangly lever and they just can't be bothered to try anymore. It's now all the burden of the clear thinkers to disprove them, on their own budget. After the latest claim is disproven, there will be a next claim, but not a new invention. All the work by Milkovic and clan has been done, a perfect creation. Hundreds more posts and videos to come!
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 13, 2023, 12:27:08 PM
some publications mentioning the Milkovic two-stage oscillator (in MS Word)

Indonesia
http://eprints.unram.ac.id/2766/2/BAB%20II.docx (http://eprints.unram.ac.id/2766/2/BAB%20II.docx)

Romania
http://116.203.245.78/Psaltica/database/peste%208000%20carti/Catalin_Dan_Carnaru-Energia_Pentru_Toti_V1_06__.doc (http://116.203.245.78/Psaltica/database/peste%208000%20carti/Catalin_Dan_Carnaru-Energia_Pentru_Toti_V1_06__.doc)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 15, 2023, 01:23:17 PM
Did anyone find a single Joule of overunity, or a Joule saved versus a flywheel?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 15, 2023, 11:56:22 PM
Did anyone find a single Joule of overunity, or a Joule saved versus a flywheel?

Did you see this paper from 2013 and their experiment results?
https://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/G.R.Nikhade_R.U.Patil_S.P.Bansal_Two-stage_oscillator_mechanism_for_operating_a_reciprocating%20pump.pdf (https://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/G.R.Nikhade_R.U.Patil_S.P.Bansal_Two-stage_oscillator_mechanism_for_operating_a_reciprocating%20pump.pdf)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on October 16, 2023, 05:38:28 AM
THANKS MERGE.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 16, 2023, 09:52:53 AM
https://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/1701561.pdf (https://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/1701561.pdf)

some publications mentioning the Milkovic two-stage oscillator
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 17, 2023, 11:03:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd-1e9ULTXw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd-1e9ULTXw)

New video by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on October 18, 2023, 12:37:47 PM
NEW VIDEO by Veljko Milkovic

Electric Generator with Magnets Driven by a Two-Stage Oscillator
[3D animation]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJnuGy5GZsQ

3D visualization of Veljko Milkovic’s patent application “Electric Generator with Magnets Driven by a Two-Stage Oscillator” (2023)

Electric Generator with Magnets Driven by a Two-Stage Oscillator, is composed of a base to which are attached a wire thread, magnets, and over an L profile with screws an elastic band, to which a two-armed lever is tightened with nuts on one side, with nuts, an elastic band with a weight is attached, and on the other side, via washers, magnets.
In accordance with the patent idea and the desired realization of the invention, opposite same-pole facing magnets contribute to the speed of oscillations, which affects the strength of the current, and elastic bands extend the swing time, i.e. the amount of current during one swing of the weight of the pendulum, and adjusting the arms of the two-armed lever using nuts is necessary, because the swinging time depends on the mass of the weight and the mass of the magnet.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 19, 2023, 09:41:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8jJu-TcjzI

New video company by Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 23, 2023, 02:17:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5LKSUUkW6U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5LKSUUkW6U)

Milkovic two-stage oscillator
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 29, 2023, 08:46:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcXIY7uRjlM

I would like to draw attention to the latest animation of a magnet generator driving a two-stage oscillator based on an elastic structure. The thing was not created by chance, but it was created through a large number of oscillation and rotation trials so that something best was found that proved to be possible a far more efficient electric generator or some other machine thanks to a new construction through new ultra-efficient oscillations. So, it is not about any kind of oscillations, but through an elastic structure and rich experience, and it has been noted that it can be achieved at a low price. So I would suggest to have a look at this new magnet generator animation and it is based on many years of experience and the best practice has been made.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 30, 2023, 03:58:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tY0RSMlTd2w (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tY0RSMlTd2w)

Milkovic two-stage oscillator
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on October 30, 2023, 03:59:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD7gi7saHFw

3D visualization of Veljko Milkovic’s patent application “Electric Generator with Magnets Driven by a Two-Stage Oscillator” (2023)

Electric Generator with Magnets Driven by a Two-Stage Oscillator, is composed of a base to which are attached a wire thread, magnets, and over an L profile with screws an elastic band, to which a two-armed lever is tightened with nuts on one side, with nuts, an elastic band with a weight is attached, and on the other side, via washers, magnets.
In accordance with the patent idea and the desired realization of the invention, opposite same-pole facing magnets contribute to the speed of oscillations, which affects the strength of the current, and elastic bands extend the swing time, i.e. the amount of current during one swing of the weight of the pendulum, and adjusting the arms of the two-armed lever using nuts is necessary, because the swinging time depends on the mass of the weight and the mass of the magnet.

Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: ovun987 on October 30, 2023, 04:32:40 PM
Mayo, have you replicated his findings or worked with anything of his worthwhile yourself? What was your favorite project and what did you learn?
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on October 31, 2023, 02:58:47 PM
ALONG THE SAME LINE OF THOUGHT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjwnwwZ84RU&t=62s
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on October 31, 2023, 08:20:06 PM
Indeed. Add complication and make it the job of others to prove that it's not overunity.
How many thousands of hours of good researcher and builders time will Milkovic have wasted with his false claim over 12x more energy out? Mayo, Merg... they could have been working on something else for decades now.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 01, 2023, 04:23:32 PM
A publication mentioning Veljko Milkovic's pendulum pump:

E-villages of Tomorrow: With Economic Freedom Package (2012) by Ghazi A. Khan
https://www.google.rs/books/edition/e_villages_of_tomorrow/6T9sKspkJLEC?hl=sr&gbpv=1&dq=milkovic+pendulum&pg=PT184&printsec=frontcover
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on November 01, 2023, 04:50:30 PM
THIS IS ANOTHER LINE OF INVENTION.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5fWtxZqdZ8
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on November 01, 2023, 05:04:00 PM
WELL WELL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1n-C5o8fZ0
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: seychelles on November 01, 2023, 05:05:39 PM
ALL WORKING ACCORDINGLY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yheVAF-Zrvo
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: kolbacict on November 01, 2023, 05:09:19 PM
Mayo, Merg... they could have been working on something else for decades now.
I do speak that they are troll.
They won't answer. :)
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Mayo on November 06, 2023, 01:53:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf2srUpjuW4


New video Veljko Milković
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 06, 2023, 05:15:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf2srUpjuW4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf2srUpjuW4)


New video Veljko Milković
The bot strikes again...

Without opening the link, I bet it's between 45 and 100 seconds of an old man mumbling incoherently.
Not offering the world anything new, not an attempt at proving his own floppy lever thing as 12x overunity, or even dangling for longer than a flywheel turns.
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Merg on November 08, 2023, 02:46:42 PM
Here is an overview of the current state of research and development:

Veljko Milkovic: Exit from the Centuries-Old Vicious Energy Circle
(2023)
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_information_TSO_2023_ENG.pdf
Title: Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
Post by: Cloxxki on November 09, 2023, 01:34:55 PM
Here is an overview of the current state of research and development:

Veljko Milkovic: Exit from the Centuries-Old Vicious Energy Circle
(2023)
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_information_TSO_2023_ENG.pdf (http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Veljko_Milkovic_information_TSO_2023_ENG.pdf)
Which of those amazing studies found the FIRST Joule of overunity, or the first Joule of extra output over a flywheel?
Efficiency found can mean "less wasteful" or "overunity"...

"And with THIS magnificent invention here, I have solved the world's energy problems. I have my very best assistants at work doing promotoion for it over on overunity.com.
And THIS little gem, is the solution against aging. I've been using it myself and I look 50 years younger already! The world needs to stop all research and focus all resources on this here crate of genius inventions of mine."