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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 2238027 times)

AnandAadhar

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1395 on: August 18, 2010, 02:39:10 PM »
Quote from: Omnibus on August 17, 2010, 07:59:27 PM
Also, that Argentinean device is even more interesting but the inventor prefers to hide. That's a red flag right there.

Yes gravity to my opinion is a conservative force and will not deliver OU energy without any other force providing an input. Ony then the oscillations of Milkovic' two phase pendulum or Finsrud's ball-on-track can prove to be effective in amplicfication. I am still engaged in further testing this notion linking a flat disc inertial oscillator to my IPMM cakra rotor. I hope to find a complementary balanced action between the two fundamental and conservative natural forces of magnetism en gravity that reveals the energy of time. A hopeful, but scientifically naive vision as with a single oscillator in a loop or a single magnet stator/rotor loop, can still be justified in another context. Everybody adds his ideas and the end result is an accumulation of our collective knowledge and experience. All glory to the assembled devotion.
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Mayo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1396 on: August 21, 2010, 04:38:04 PM »
Quote from: Omnibus on August 17, 2010, 07:57:28 PM
Too bad that fellow Jovan Marianovic isn't participating in these discussions. There maybe something in his writing but it has to be discussed more thoroughly. He, for instance, observes the fact that the pivot feels no effect of mass at the extreme points when the pendulum is attached to the lever in Milkovic's device, referring to that as gravity shield, but doesn't seem to account for the fact that all this is at the expense of energy spent.

Jovan said several times that movable pivot point costs energy for gravity shield effect.
Pendulum with fixed pivot point costs very little but can not be used for anything. His idea was to fix the problem of movable pivot point with lag of the lever. 
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Omnibus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1397 on: August 21, 2010, 10:02:55 PM »
Quote from: Mayo on August 21, 2010, 04:38:04 PM
Jovan said several times that movable pivot point costs energy for gravity shield effect.
Pendulum with fixed pivot point costs very little but can not be used for anything. His idea was to fix the problem of movable pivot point with lag of the lever.

Maybe he has something rational in mind but it isn't getting across. See if he get here in this forum to explain what his idea really is.
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Omnibus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1398 on: August 21, 2010, 10:13:57 PM »
Quote from: AnandAadhar on August 18, 2010, 02:39:10 PM
Yes gravity to my opinion is a conservative force and will not deliver OU energy without any other force providing an input. Ony then the oscillations of Milkovic' two phase pendulum or Finsrud's ball-on-track can prove to be effective in amplicfication. I am still engaged in further testing this notion linking a flat disc inertial oscillator to my IPMM cakra rotor. I hope to find a complementary balanced action between the two fundamental and conservative natural forces of magnetism en gravity that reveals the energy of time. A hopeful, but scientifically naive vision as with a single oscillator in a loop or a single magnet stator/rotor loop, can still be justified in another context. Everybody adds his ideas and the end result is an accumulation of our collective knowledge and experience. All glory to the assembled devotion.

You know, the oldest OU idea ever, that of the Bhaskara wheel, might have worked. It's a purely gravity machine and the reason I'm saying that is because I've calculated its (one of its latest renditions -- that of Sjack Abeling) overall torque at every position of the wheel and it is persistently negative. Also, you can see that the center of mass is persistently sideways (to the right) with respect to the axle at every angle of rotation. This means that the lever rule is continuously violated at every position of the wheel. Thus, undoubtedly, that machine is intrinsically OU by its very construction. It should be made to spin by some talented engineering which will decrease the friction below the limits of competition with the OU effect. Put sand (increase friction) in an internal combustion engine and it won't work. This, of course, doesn't mean that internal combustion engines cannot work and have never worked in history. Same thing here. Ingenious engineering is what is needed to have a turning Bhaskara wheel (that has probably been the case way back in the centuries but has been suppressed).
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AnandAadhar

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1399 on: August 22, 2010, 11:37:41 AM »
Quote from: Omnibus on August 21, 2010, 10:13:57 PM
You know, the oldest OU idea ever, that of the Bhaskara wheel, might have worked. It's a purely gravity machine and the reason I'm saying that is because I've calculated its (one of its latest renditions -- that of Sjack Abeling) overall torque at every position of the wheel and it is persistently negative. Also, you can see that the center of mass is persistently sideways (to the right) with respect to the axle at every angle of rotation. This means that the lever rule is continuously violated at every position of the wheel. Thus, undoubtedly, that machine is intrinsically OU by its very construction. It should be made to spin by some talented engineering which will decrease the friction below the limits of competition with the OU effect. Put sand (increase friction) in an internal combustion engine and it won't work. This, of course, doesn't mean that internal combustion engines cannot work and have never worked in history. Same thing here. Ingenious engineering is what is needed to have a turning Bhaskara wheel (that has probably been the case way back in the centuries but has been suppressed).
I have applied the Bhaskara/DaVinci model in a magnetic so-called cakra wheel, a rotor I am testing now for over two years. See my IPMM series.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4449.new.html#new
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exnihiloest

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1400 on: August 23, 2010, 08:58:05 AM »
Quote from: Merg on August 04, 2010, 08:05:32 PM
...
The complete paper can be read on the next link (PDF - 122KB):
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf

Marjanovic is far from being a credible author. He makes beginner's mistakes in physics.
See:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg244606#msg244606

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andrea

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1401 on: August 25, 2010, 11:23:23 AM »
Quote from: exnihiloest on August 23, 2010, 08:58:05 AM
Marjanovic is far from being a credible author. He makes beginner's mistakes in physics.
See:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.msg244606#msg244606

Hello, did you read this paper yet? http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
I've read it carefully. I've found no mistakes, rather I think this finally gives a sense to this system, two stage oscillator.
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Omnibus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1402 on: August 25, 2010, 01:27:40 PM »
@andrea,

Quote
Hello, did you read this paper yet? http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/Jovan_Marjanovic_Theory_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
I've read it carefully. I've found no mistakes, rather I think this finally gives a sense to this system, two stage oscillator.

Like I said in a previous post regarding the quoted text, he may have a point but it isn't coming across. It isn't at all clear how his analysis leads to OU. Maybe he can come to this board and explain it more thoroughly, as I suggested earlier.
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Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1403 on: August 25, 2010, 02:55:13 PM »
I'll try to break it up.

* 2-stage oscillator is presented, claimed to be OU
* papers are presented, supposedly explaining the math towards OU
* no design that offered, even on paper, any OU, is yet to be presented.

I am no engineer by trade, but can be rather clever if I set my mind to it. A few patent apps and grants support this.
If someone can explain to me a math that shows OU, I can design an apparatus to exploit it, to great efficiency.
I came to these forums to find such math, which I am incapable of coming up with myself.

All seems to point to the math just not working at all, else Milkovic' devices would be powering themselves. No-one is so incompetent to find out new math, and not be able to exploit it.
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Omnibus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1404 on: August 25, 2010, 03:07:54 PM »
The math may be OK and it may prove the device is OU but that's not a guarantee that making it self-sustaining would be an easy engineering task. Friction losses, for instance, may pose insurmountable difficulties. Engineering of such devices is a daunting task. Not that it hasn't occurred in the past (and has been suppressed) but it isn't at all as easy as it seems even if the math proves the machine is OU.
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utilitarian

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1405 on: August 26, 2010, 12:17:18 AM »
Quote from: Cloxxki on August 25, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
All seems to point to the math just not working at all, else Milkovic' devices would be powering themselves. No-one is so incompetent to find out new math, and not be able to exploit it.

You cannot use existing math theory to prove overunity.

Modern physics, and the math behind it, will always lead you into 2+2=4 theory.  You have to show that 2+2=5 to have overunity.  So there is no math answer under current math theory.

To come up with math that shows overunity, one must come up with new math.
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WilbyInebriated

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1406 on: August 26, 2010, 12:19:51 AM »
Quote from: utilitarian on August 26, 2010, 12:17:18 AM
You cannot use existing math theory to prove overunity.

Modern physics, and the math behind it, will always lead you into 2+2=4 theory.  You have to show that 2+2=5 to have overunity.  So there is no math answer under current math theory.

To come up with math that shows overunity, one must come up with new math.

omnibus did... and shruggedatlas is supporting omnibus, so it must be real. ::)
see the steorn thread.
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Omnibus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1407 on: August 26, 2010, 01:20:44 AM »
Quote from: utilitarian on August 26, 2010, 12:17:18 AM
You cannot use existing math theory to prove overunity.

Modern physics, and the math behind it, will always lead you into 2+2=4 theory.  You have to show that 2+2=5 to have overunity.  So there is no math answer under current math theory.

To come up with math that shows overunity, one must come up with new math.

Not so. Math doesn't make physics. Physics makes math. The first thing to be understood is the physics that brings about OU. Once it is understood clothing it in math terms is trivial. No new math. Deeper understanding of physics is what occurs when discovering OU.
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Omnibus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1408 on: August 26, 2010, 01:22:58 AM »
By the way, OU isn't 2 + 2 = 5. That's a wrong understanding as to what OU is.
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exnihiloest

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1409 on: August 26, 2010, 08:33:38 AM »
Quote from: utilitarian on August 26, 2010, 12:17:18 AM
You cannot use existing math theory to prove overunity.
...
To come up with math that shows overunity, one must come up with new math.

It's right. But Omnibus pretends he can. It is like proving that Krishna exists, using the bible.   :D



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