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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 2237992 times)

tagor

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1320 on: April 21, 2010, 04:00:53 PM »
Video description says "Veljko Milkovic's Video Message for Rome Free Energy Conference 2010"

but there is nothing new !!!

Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1321 on: April 21, 2010, 07:10:09 PM »
same old demonstrations, nothing but blah blah blah blah blah, doesn't prove anything, no free energy/overunity here. i guess you can say its an efficient system but that is all. until someone makes a self runner we have nothing. NOTHING!
I agree. If it's so awesome a system, let it place little weights to the same height as the main pendulum was raised. One little weight each time. Surely before the thing runs out of stream, the weights lifted will add up to more than the main pendulum's weight? 12x the main pendulum's weight.

With the little weights, they could be taken from the 2nd stage, and placed on the 1st stage, at the same height. Instant OU and continious movement!  But, it will slow down, quickly. Anything you extact, is gone forever. I'd love to see disproof of that.

MoRo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1322 on: April 21, 2010, 08:52:43 PM »
I agree. If it's so awesome a system, let it place little weights to the same height as the main pendulum was raised. One little weight each time. Surely before the thing runs out of stream, the weights lifted will add up to more than the main pendulum's weight? 12x the main pendulum's weight.

With the little weights, they could be taken from the 2nd stage, and placed on the 1st stage, at the same height. Instant OU and continious movement!  But, it will slow down, quickly. Anything you extact, is gone forever. I'd love to see disproof of that.

This is a 2 stage system. If stage 1 (the pendulum) were designed as a frictionless system, then it would power stage 2 (the fulcrum) forever according to Newtons Law. So efficency of the device only has to do with how much friction exist in stage 1 of the device.

Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1323 on: April 21, 2010, 11:30:59 PM »
This is a 2 stage system. If stage 1 (the pendulum) were designed as a frictionless system, then it would power stage 2 (the fulcrum) forever according to Newtons Law. So efficency of the device only has to do with how much friction exist in stage 1 of the device.
Eh, yes. But they claim 12x more out than in. Just wiggling back and forth in a frictionless environment, ANY object does that.
Powering stage 2 is no big deal. It happens. But any energy you extract from stage 2, like gently pushing a weight off onto the adjecent shelf while at the highest point, will reduced the system's amplitude.
If it is OU, where is the extra energy going in all the setup previously shown? I tryle want to be proven wrong here. If this is good OU, I'll invent devices to make use of it.

MoRo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1324 on: April 22, 2010, 08:22:06 AM »
Eh, yes. But they claim 12x more out than in. Just wiggling back and forth in a frictionless environment, ANY object does that.
Powering stage 2 is no big deal. It happens. But any energy you extract from stage 2, like gently pushing a weight off onto the adjecent shelf while at the highest point, will reduced the system's amplitude.
If it is OU, where is the extra energy going in all the setup previously shown? I tryle want to be proven wrong here. If this is good OU, I'll invent devices to make use of it.

Your statements are pretty accurate. I'm not sure were the 12 times slogan came from, But, I do believe that You are comparing apples to oranges...

The device shown by Milkovic needs gravity on both sides (or spring tension on the output) of the system to do any kind of WORK. Gravity is the medium, so its not simply an issue of removing weight from the output side to a shelf were it would then have a potential (non working) state, that would be equivalent to taking the device out of a gravitational field (its medium) and expecting it to still work.  It simply wont work without gravity any more than it would work without pushing the pendulum into a swing. Yes, gravity causes the acceleration AND deceleration of the pendulum, but the Gain (kinetic gain that is) comes from the increased Apparent Mass of the pendulum. The increase comes from Centrifugal Force caused by the angular momentum of the pendulum mass at its maximum speed at the bottom of its swing. Since gravity is what causes the pendulum to accelerate to a speed where centrifugal forces are significant, no energy need be input into the system, short of that required to start and maintain the pendulum  amplitude.  On ether side of the swing however the pendulum mass goes into free fall and so it looses Apparent Mass.  Therefore on the input side of the 2nd stage you get an Apparent Mass Extra Heavy/Apparent Mass Nil cycle. The Work that can be performed by the 2nd sage as a result of this cycle is greater that that required to maintain the 1st stage pendulums amplitude at a desirable swing level.

tagor

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1325 on: April 22, 2010, 08:40:16 AM »
Your statements are pretty accurate. I'm not sure were the 12 times slogan came from, But, I do believe that You are comparing apples to oranges...

The device shown by Milkovic needs gravity on both sides (or spring tension on the output) of the system to do any kind of WORK. Gravity is the medium, so its not simply an issue of removing weight from the output side to a shelf were it would then have a potential (non working) state, that would be equivalent to taking the device out of a gravitational field (its medium) and expecting it to still work.  It simply wont work without gravity any more than it would work without pushing the pendulum into a swing. Yes, gravity causes the acceleration AND deceleration of the pendulum, but the Gain (kinetic gain that is) comes from the increased Apparent Mass of the pendulum. The increase comes from Centrifugal Force caused by the angular momentum of the pendulum mass at its maximum speed at the bottom of its swing. Since gravity is what causes the pendulum to accelerate to a speed where centrifugal forces are significant, no energy need be input into the system, short of that required to start and maintain the pendulum  amplitude.  On ether side of the swing however the pendulum mass goes into free fall and so it looses Apparent Mass.  Therefore on the input side of the 2nd stage you get an Apparent Mass Extra Heavy/Apparent Mass Nil cycle. The Work that can be performed by the 2nd sage as a result of this cycle is greater that that required to maintain the 1st stage pendulums amplitude at a desirable swing level.

LOL
are you serious ?

Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1326 on: April 22, 2010, 08:50:59 AM »
Your statements are pretty accurate. I'm not sure were the 12 times slogan came from, But, I do believe that You are comparing apples to oranges...

The device shown by Milkovic needs gravity on both sides (or spring tension on the output) of the system to do any kind of WORK. Gravity is the medium, so its not simply an issue of removing weight from the output side to a shelf were it would then have a potential (non working) state, that would be equivalent to taking the device out of a gravitational field (its medium) and expecting it to still work.  It simply wont work without gravity any more than it would work without pushing the pendulum into a swing. Yes, gravity causes the acceleration AND deceleration of the pendulum, but the Gain (kinetic gain that is) comes from the increased Apparent Mass of the pendulum. The increase comes from Centrifugal Force caused by the angular momentum of the pendulum mass at its maximum speed at the bottom of its swing. Since gravity is what causes the pendulum to accelerate to a speed where centrifugal forces are significant, no energy need be input into the system, short of that required to start and maintain the pendulum  amplitude.  On ether side of the swing however the pendulum mass goes into free fall and so it looses Apparent Mass.  Therefore on the input side of the 2nd stage you get an Apparent Mass Extra Heavy/Apparent Mass Nil cycle. The Work that can be performed by the 2nd sage as a result of this cycle is greater that that required to maintain the 1st stage pendulums amplitude at a desirable swing level.
This all seems plausible.
From a small 1st stage, a large 2nd stage is brought into movement, oscillation actually. No work is being done, as the 2nd stage is dependent on the 1st one. And the 1st stage, will reduce in amplitude the moment the 2nd stage is asked to do any kind of work. Lift a weight, press a light button, anything is too much, the system will come to a halt.
We get to see a great show of moving weights, but they're in such an odd balance, that nett, nothing it happening apart from the hand inputting energy (highly efficiently) via tapping the first stage.
I'll repeat. When I'm convinced there is work to be taken out without the 1st stage slowing down proportionately, I'll make a device for the betterment of mankind to make use of the principle.
The famous water pump works nicely, but is based on peak load from CF, overcoming stiction in the pump itself, I'm pretty sure. An ingenous application, but not OU. There's not so much water being pumped up, and not very high.

MoRo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1327 on: April 22, 2010, 02:47:44 PM »

LOL
are you serious ?

I don't understanding your LOL. I ment that the user doesn't have to accelerate the mass himself to get the centrifugal force. Gravity does that for him.

MoRo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1328 on: April 22, 2010, 03:04:22 PM »
This all seems plausible.
From a small 1st stage, a large 2nd stage is brought into movement, oscillation actually. No work is being done, as the 2nd stage is dependent on the 1st one. And the 1st stage, will reduce in amplitude the moment the 2nd stage is asked to do any kind of work. Lift a weight, press a light button, anything is too much, the system will come to a halt.
We get to see a great show of moving weights, but they're in such an odd balance, that nett, nothing it happening apart from the hand inputting energy (highly efficiently) via tapping the first stage.
I'll repeat. When I'm convinced there is work to be taken out without the 1st stage slowing down proportionately, I'll make a device for the betterment of mankind to make use of the principle.
The famous water pump works nicely, but is based on peak load from CF, overcoming stiction in the pump itself, I'm pretty sure. An ingenous application, but not OU. There's not so much water being pumped up, and not very high.

Oscillations ARE the RESULT of energy input. If you don't put energy in, you won't have oscillations.

You will phisically expend more energy oscillating stage 2 using your own energy than if you use your energy to keep the pendulum oscillating and allow the centrifugal force gain to oscillate stage 2.

Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1329 on: April 22, 2010, 09:53:21 PM »
Oscillations ARE the RESULT of energy input. If you don't put energy in, you won't have oscillations.

You will phisically expend more energy oscillating stage 2 using your own energy than if you use your energy to keep the pendulum oscillating and allow the centrifugal force gain to oscillate stage 2.
So, you need to put the energy in to get the oscillation. But when you stop the oscillation, the energy doesn't come out?
I believe the jury is still out on whether energy is really stored in 2nd stage oscillator, when it's impossible to retrieve it, and constant input on the 1st stage is required to keep it going.

MoRo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1330 on: April 22, 2010, 10:56:40 PM »
So, you need to put the energy in to get the oscillation. But when you stop the oscillation, the energy doesn't come out?
I believe the jury is still out on whether energy is really stored in 2nd stage oscillator, when it's impossible to retrieve it, and constant input on the 1st stage is required to keep it going.

Anything that changes direction of travel requires energy to change it's direction. An oscillation IS just that!...  Wind pushes on the water and a wave (oscillation) is created. It has an amplitude and a frequency... That's energy in motion... Work. If the wave comes ashore, it moves some sand or something and that's it! The wave is gone. It won't keep going.

With the 2 stage device your push on stage 1 is a light push because you have gravity assist. The pendulum accelerates due to gravity. The speed of curviture at the bottom of the swing translates into centrifugal force. Then, the equivelent centripetal force acts on the input side of stage 2 for an even greater push. The result is that a mass on the output side is set into oscillation. Every single time the output mass is lifted against gravity in it's oscillation amplitude, that is an expression of work.

Merg

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1331 on: April 30, 2010, 02:05:43 AM »
Here are some updates from YouTube:

Milkovic's Pendulum Replica videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gSokCcsu7s                     

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiLLlFYOv18                           

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTue9xzH8sU                   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6u8dSfbMH8                 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxF-egvVSZM                     

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHQn3kuG5c0               

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D73mcdvhyZA                   

Cloxxki

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1332 on: April 30, 2010, 02:20:41 AM »
Anything that changes direction of travel requires energy to change it's direction. An oscillation IS just that!...  Wind pushes on the water and a wave (oscillation) is created. It has an amplitude and a frequency... That's energy in motion... Work. If the wave comes ashore, it moves some sand or something and that's it! The wave is gone. It won't keep going.

With the 2 stage device your push on stage 1 is a light push because you have gravity assist. The pendulum accelerates due to gravity. The speed of curviture at the bottom of the swing translates into centrifugal force. Then, the equivelent centripetal force acts on the input side of stage 2 for an even greater push. The result is that a mass on the output side is set into oscillation. Every single time the output mass is lifted against gravity in it's oscillation amplitude, that is an expression of work.
Are you stating the 2nd stage as output mass? If the 2nd stage is prevented to come back down, a second weight can be substituted half a cycle later to be lifted in its turn, the oscillation is gone.
Even though the second stage seems to represent great work done for little input, the fact that it moves against gravity doesn't mean the device is overcoming all the 2nd stage weight each time. The unhindered downward motion of the 2nd stage is essential, making the 2nd stage just a big dangling mass that can't be used for anything but crushing a few raw eggs, and even then at a loss of energy.
I used to believe, but see it only as a complicated brainteaser.

MoRo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1333 on: April 30, 2010, 07:02:28 AM »
Are you stating the 2nd stage as output mass? If the 2nd stage is prevented to come back down, a second weight can be substituted half a cycle later to be lifted in its turn, the oscillation is gone.
Even though the second stage seems to represent great work done for little input, the fact that it moves against gravity doesn't mean the device is overcoming all the 2nd stage weight each time. The unhindered downward motion of the 2nd stage is essential, making the 2nd stage just a big dangling mass that can't be used for anything but crushing a few raw eggs, and even then at a loss of energy.
I used to believe, but see it only as a complicated brainteaser.

I neither argue for nor against Milkovic's device, as I have my own proposed device that I believe would be superior to the pendulum device for energy production. My device would work even in a gravityless environment by utilising centrifugal forces from a full rotational input mass, for both positive and negative amplitudal energy on stage 2. See my videos on youtube channel: MagnaMoRo.