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Author Topic: inertial propulsion with gyroscope  (Read 15010 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2018, 01:08:17 PM »
Dancing or Ice Skating, you can swing your partner
and let them go


They do not fly angularly
But linear




If you understand what “angular momentum” actually is
It is a linear momentum derived from angular velocity
There is no real angular component to the momentum
Unless there is some force to keep applying the change
in angle, the object in motion will maintain a linear path.


Which is why I said this problem is Newtonian.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2018, 01:08:17 PM »

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2018, 01:10:11 PM »
Have you ever used a sling?

@sm0ky2: I know it will sound arrogant, but this is not the place to give you an education in basic physics. I would have to write pages and pages to do that. You have to make the effort yourself, sorry.

I am not defending physics and I am not a teacher. I repeat trivial basic facts which you can find everywhere. Do not believe me, read up.

To say it in one sentence: if you want linear inertial propulsion you have to throw some mass away (like you do with your sling) or you have to push against something (in the surroundings).

The Fiala patent makes interesting claims and Laurent's experiments show that there is something worth while investigating. Gyroscopes a very difficult to understand and may be there are some unknown effects. But I do not believe, I try to experiment. To believe is something for church and does not help to impart inertial propulsion.

So, I do not want you to believe me, I want you to experiment. Show something, than we may have something to talk about. I believe you believe to much. I have never seen a miracle, but believers see miracles everywhere. Are there miracles? Yes, for the believer there are, and for the non-believer there are none.

Are you a believer? If yes, you live in a wonderful world. If not, life will be a little more difficult, but more interesting. And it is a lot of hard work to gain knowledge. You can not skip the hard work. Why do you think people have to study for years? Even a genius has to study for years, and may be you are just a little genius, which means very many years of study.

You have won every argument you care to win! I am the bad one, you are the good one! I know nothing, you have the divine knowledge!

Greetings, Conrad

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2018, 01:23:01 PM »
It is Newton’s 3rd law actually
The force keeping the metal of the gyro
spinning in a circle, is it’s tensile strength
otherwise spinning it up would inertially propel
its’ pieces in linear (tangental) vectors.


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2018, 01:30:48 PM »
There’s a thing called a ‘vibrator motor’
Found inside cell phones and also found in
an ancient device, we used to call a ‘pager’


It basically shakes your device using a small DC motor.


This is done is 2 basic way:
1) an imbalanced weight is placed on the shaft
This is the preferred method, since the inertia is
distributed fairly equally in all directions.
(maybe this is the scenario you are thinking of?)


2) a notch protrudes from a balanced weight
and ‘clicks’ on a part of the frame.
This transfers the inertia in a single direction.
Some of us remember a time when our cell phones
and pagers would vibrate themselves right off the table.
This was an inertial propulsion drive.


We don’t need to “ believe”  to use physics.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2018, 01:55:14 PM »
We don’t use the second type of vibrator anymore
except in industrial machinery, to offset
vibrational imbalances in heavy rotating parts.


It was phased out for two main reasons


1) we don’t want our phones to propel themselves linearly


And


2) if you attach the motor to a variable resistor
to control the frequency,
it is basically Tesla’s Earthquake machine

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2018, 01:55:14 PM »
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Offline DrJones

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2018, 06:12:09 PM »
 I enjoy the discussion.  Theory vs experiment.  Classic.[/size]


Conradelektro (theory): "To say it in one sentence: if you want linear inertial propulsion you have to throw some mass away (like you do with your sling) or you have to push against something (in the surroundings)."


I have certainly heard physics professors teach this...


But then we have the challenge - try the experiment!  That's how science progresses.


sm0ky2: (experiment): "The demo I was invited to was a NASA team, and the boat was a toy in a pond.  [/font]The rotating weight had an arm that was able to extend at a portion of its rotation, then retract shortly after.Allowing it to transfer centrifugal force in a linear direction.Like swirling a weight on a string, then jolting your arm forward as the string passed in front of you.Was a solid arm, not a string, but the analogy is valid."


A physicist might prefer not to speak of "transfer centrifugal force in a linear direction."


He might use other wording.  No matter.  I would like to see that experiment performed - and may do it myself, in warmer weather (below freezing here today).

And you can bet that NASA will never release a video/explanation of their recoil-less propulsion -- at least, not until a citizen does the experiment outside the government pavilion and "spills the beans."  (IF indeed the experiment works as claimed by sm0ky.)

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2018, 09:58:04 PM »
That is a nice gyroscope for experiments  https://www.gyroscope.com/d.asp?product=SUPER2#

It comes with a DC motor which can be used to spin the gyroscope up and which will then run for several minutes. Or the DC motor can be bolted to the device for a continuous spin at about 12000 rpm.

It seems to be available.


@DrJones and sm0ky2: I am not a defender of theory, I just write what standard theory says. One has to be aware of the standard theory (which is very well established and nicely described in countless publications) in order to advance further. And humbleness is advised because it will be very difficult to beat standard theory. There is so much nonsense spoken in this forum that it is ridiculous and even a shame.

And there are only a handful of people in this forum who can do decent experiments and credible measurements. I am not such a person because my skills are limited, but I try without being deluded and I know my limits. And I try to understand standard theory before talking about great new things. Not a single thing has been credibly shown in this forum which goes beyond known theory. Just hot air and nonsense. And the loud boastful voices are the most ridiculous ones.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2018, 09:58:04 PM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2018, 12:10:12 AM »
Hi conrad

you make my day when you simply remind to all of us the concept of open system.

And perhaps the answer is that a spinning and precessing gyro can capture or other said "play" with   the supposed surrounding elements or " the ether " why not  and as you say it could be an analogy of propeller in the air.

really brain shaking this experiment !!

Will deep on this experiment for sure

Laurent


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2018, 02:33:46 AM »
@Dr jones


You are correct, I apologize, was typing too fast
And meant to say the rotational force applied to the mass
transferring in a linear direction.


The point I was trying to make is that motion is motion
it doesn’t really matter which direction we started with.
we can redirect it in any direction we choose.


We actually don’t even know which direction is which.
it’s all from our own perspective.
and the inertia has nothing to do with our perspective


It is from the perspective of the two interacting masses.
one being the rotating mass, the other being the vehicle
that it’s housed in.


Just like our vibrating pager that walks.
the same way the Orbi moves


Stand on a skateboard with a rock tied to a rope
(make sure it doesn’t fly off)


and spin it over your head
then extend your arm out in front of you as it passes
your shoulder, and retract your arm as it passes the other
quickly, jolt it


the rock wants to fly tangential-Always
the force the rope puts on the rock
is exactly like the force on a pendulum shaft
(if we negate gravity)
and the force on the support of the gyro from
axis to outer perimeter.





Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2018, 02:43:18 AM »
@Conrad


One has to be careful to make distinction between theory
and assumptions made based on those theories.


And sometimes the assumptions that predecess them.


Newtonian physics has surpassed theory
and is Law.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2018, 02:43:18 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2018, 02:52:19 AM »
if we look at the angular momentum at any instant
we see that it is a vector
NOT a pi function


Isaac says it is linear


If we transfer some of the momentum at that instant
it is in that vector


Linear






Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2018, 03:15:53 AM »
In Woopy’s device, the momentum is transferred to the shaft at
the center of rotation, through the forced precession caused by
the shape of the track.


The axis of rotation is the gimble
even though the gyro is on an arm
the gimble rotation is constant, and the
pitch, caused by the track is different than the normal
for the speed of the gyro, and rotation of the gimble.


This imparts a force on the axis.
the torque is the change in angular momentum over time.




The torque is= 4(pi^2)*moment of inertia/[1/(rpmgimble*rpmgyro)/60]
The vector a combined angle of the forced precession and the normal
angle of precession.





Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2018, 03:24:44 AM »
We can see mathematically that the torque is
tilting the shaft in two directions simultaneously


what happens when we tilt a shaft in both directions?
it moves linearly......


Take it from a guy that spent waay too much time
trying to break Newton.
Even he looks wrong, from the right perspective
he is always right.

You can’t think about this from our perspective
you have to be the craft.
then to you, there is a force.


each time the gyro torque is countered by the forced
track motion (because gimble is constant) the combined
torque is perpendicular to the shaft, instead of tilting it,
it “pushes” it in the combined vector.


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2018, 03:42:08 AM »
the counter force is not in the applied vector
it is 180-degrees to each respective tilt.
you can see these oscillations, separate from
the internal linear force.


When we stand on the craft, and push the shaft
it goes nowhere, because the torque is between our feet
and the craft.


With Woopy’s device the torque is internal, on the gimble shaft.
it’s not pushing back against the craft,
(at least not completely)




Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2018, 11:37:10 AM »
With Woopy’s device the torque is internal, on the gimbal shaft.
it’s not pushing back against the craft,
(at least not completely)

"The torque is on the gimbal shaft": This might be true, but the shaft is held by the platform and the platform runs on wheels on the table. And everything is reacting, the platform, the wheels on the table. It is by no means a "closed system".

The so called "inertial drives" (which seem to turn angular momentum into linear momentum) act against friction. Wheels have a very high friction sideways (perpendicular to the rolling direction, and specially on rails) and the "machine" pushes against this high friction. There is also considerable friction if one presses in short bursts against ball bearings perpendicular to the axle. Also twisting an axle in a ball bearing causes high friction (at the instant of the may be very short twist).

Fast spinning "machines" simply act on the air like a propeller. A gyroscope with 12000 rpm causes considerable air displacement near the spinning wheel.

It is almost impossible to create a "closed system" on earth, at least the "machine" is standing on a table or on the floor. And it is always in air. Hanging the "machine" like a pendulum is also not without additional forces like unwinding the filaments of a string or twisting at least two parallel strings. If you hang a table with four strings (each on a corner) from the ceiling it has high resistance to rotation (but swings nicely). And this fools the "inventors". (It also fooled me.) A machine in free fall from very high would be a closed system (during the fall) but it would interact strongly with air. You have to go into earth orbit (if you can afford that).

And if you add gyroscopes it becomes complicated. And with gyroscopes (as you concluded) the forces often act against axles, but the axles are held by something and this something is restricted by friction in the most unexpected directions.

Specially "vibration machines" rely on a higher friction in one direction, contrary to the perception of an onlooker.


If you spin something (e.g. on a string) and then let it fly away tangentially you have done exactly what is meant by "throwing something away to impart linear momentum". But very soon you are running out of things to throw away like a rocket runs out of fuel (which is literally thrown away at high speed through its exhaust).

There are thousands of patents for "space drives" since more than a hundred years. None ever worked. They would be tremendous and hard to suppress (because the inventor is driven by greed and every country would need it for its military or industry). So, we are up against a legion of unsuccessful inventors.

But I can not convince a believer. Believe is resistant to knowledge and learning. If we could turn believe into a real force, we would go faster than light (I believe).


Let's convince each other with good experiments! Talk is idle and cheap.

Greetings, Conrad


P.S.: My efforts are failing when I try to create a fast spinning wheel in my workshop. The problem is balance. What I have created rattles in a frightful way and endangers me (because parts could fly off in my face). I am waiting for the gyroscope mentioned above https://www.gyroscope.com/d.asp?product=SUPER2#. Hopefully the Brits will not leave the EU before sending the thing. They took my money without any problems.

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2018, 11:37:10 AM »

 

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