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Author Topic: inertial propulsion with gyroscope  (Read 21837 times)

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #150 on: March 02, 2018, 01:16:57 PM »
Very nice gyro and you know what, you are very lucky to get one  because they are already out of sock and if you want one you have to preorder. Big succes thi gyro.

They have 36 more ready today or Monday https://www.gyroscope.com/d.asp?product=SUPER2[/color][/font]

After inspecting and testing the one I got, I ordered a second one. One needs two gyroscopes to build something symmetrical. These wonderful gyroscopes can be mounted with the motor or without it. They also have free tap holes for mounting.


It is difficult to get reasonably priced gyroscopes.

The cheap version (only EUR 9.--) is such a thing (see attched photo, I got two and will do my first build and tests with them): https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000X4FSH8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&psc=1  One has to spin it up with a Dremel tool and it slows down rapidly (high speed no longer than one minute, then it runs down with much reduced speed for longer). This gyroscope is also not as balanced as one would wish. For first tests and for gaining experience with a build they do nicely. Once I know a bit what I am up against (specially how strong the stepper motors have to be) I will build something with the Super Precision Gyroscopes from Great Britain.


It will be a longish project, so be patient, or try to build something yourself. Talking is easy (look how over productive sm0ky2 is, a world class bull shitter), building is difficult. And especially difficult is to build something "non secret" which everybody can see and judge. I know, everything is already known about gyroscopes. Or is it? At least there is a lot I do not know about gyroscopes. What do you really know (not just imagine to know)?

Greetings, Conrad

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #150 on: March 02, 2018, 01:16:57 PM »

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #151 on: March 02, 2018, 02:29:38 PM »
Today is also a good day, because i made a new test with my vertical device and the new track and without the grip band.

So i remake the suspended wheel andthis time i made a triple parallel kevlar monotoron of only 35 cm lenght. So strong enough to support the wobling of the device.

then i put the device on and wait until the swing are optimised and stable.
Then i pusched slightly the suspended wheel BACKWARDS to see what happen.

The device goes very slowly bacwards slows down and at about 3/4 of backwards turn it stops and very slowly goes forwards

so the results

turn 1 in 1 minute and 43 sec

turn 2   53 sec

turn 3  43 sec

turn 4  34 sec

turn  5  31 sec

turn 6  29 sec

stop because the monotoron is winding up

Your device should not do that, hard to explain. (I hope the men in black are not watching.)

Since the motor which turns the gyroscope also causes the back and forth movement (rowing) it is impossible to test your set up (your device hanging with the kevlar string) with a "non turning" gyroscope (the gyroscope would then be a dead weight).

I would like to see whether the effect (the slow turns) is cause by the arm "rowing" in air (like a slow propeller). I guess this is not happening, but would be nice to test.

Greetings, Conrad
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 06:16:36 PM by conradelektro »

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #152 on: March 02, 2018, 11:57:45 PM »
Your device should not do that, hard to explain. (I hope the men in black are not watching.)

Since the motor which turns the gyroscope also causes the back and forth movement (rowing) it is impossible to test your set up (your device hanging with the kevlar string) with a "non turning" gyroscope (the gyroscope would then be a dead weight).

I would like to see whether the effect (the slow turns) is cause by the arm "rowing" in air (like a slow propeller). I guess this is not happening, but would be nice to test.

Greetings, Conrad

Hi conrad

Just received the first parts of my bunker today, very impressive work and i should receive the ad hoc weapons  these next days, because i bought the whole combo,  but i am not allowed to say details and price because NDA sorry.

So far i will  not modify this device because it works fine as it is and i will keep it as a comparison with further version.

so i am sampling  other matos to rebuild a second device which could be activated by forced precession ( nor sure usefull on this earth) and also add more lateral separating distance between  the 2 gyros  so they can " INWARD free fall" much more without bumping against each other just before entering the precession phase.

I am almost sure that the transition between the constrained precession (track guided swing )  and its liberation (free-fall ) to free precession is the thing we have to look into if we want to crack the impossible.

Laurent



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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #152 on: March 02, 2018, 11:57:45 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #153 on: March 03, 2018, 12:12:23 AM »
I am almost sure that the transition between the constrained precession (track guided swing )  and its liberation to free precession is the thing we have to look into if we want to crack the impossible.

Laurent, please look at the attached drawing, is this what you mean?


I suspect that one has to constrain precession in the acceleration phase to keep the arm (which carries the gyro) from going vertical pretty fast. "Hand tests" showed me that the arm carrying a fast spinning gyroscope precesses immediately into the vertical position if the arm is only nudged a bit (only moved a few degrees away from 0° in my attached drawing).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #154 on: March 03, 2018, 12:44:39 AM »

Laurent, please look at the attached drawing, is this what you mean?


Greetings, Conrad

At the "top speed" of your drawing  it must be a kind of DETACHED event that i name the "free fall" or liberation, where the gyro changes  it's status of pure inertial mass into a NOTHING THING sorry but it  puzzle me a lot but so far i have no other explanation.

I am trying to isolate this phenomenon with different experiment, but not so easy.

Laurent

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #154 on: March 03, 2018, 12:44:39 AM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #155 on: March 03, 2018, 12:06:53 PM »
At the "top speed" of your drawing  it must be a kind of DETACHED event that i name the "free fall" or liberation, where the gyro changes  it's status of pure inertial mass into a NOTHING THING sorry but it  puzzle me a lot but so far i have no other explanation.

I am trying to isolate this phenomenon with different experiment, but not so easy.

Laurent

I conrad

I will try to sequence your drawing

"top speed" is 12 0'clock
"accelerate is    3
"stop is             6
"decelerate" is  9

A-
between 6 and 12 this is the swing which inertially (pendulum mode) produces the forward push. Your device should move down the screen.
Analyse:
during this sequence the gyro is spinning and is angularly rotated and in full acceleration, so it precess as a crazy, producing a monster torque (but for nothing else that destroying the cheap chinese ballbearing of the gyro ,it happens to me twice already).
So the gyro desperatly tries to raise up but it cannot because there is the guiding track or anything else which "strongly constrain" this tentative. The matos must be rock solid and not wobbling during the swing.

So what seems to happen is that the gyro keep is inertial angular capacity and i am not sure that the full centrifugal force is still there.
Because on part 8, the device don't drift to the left, as it should do if the centrifugal force would be fully there.

To check this point i have made a montage with my 360 servo and on the arm, tubing, i inserting a second tubing which can slide along the arm. On this sliding tube i have installed the gyro. Result when not spinning, the gyro slide immediately to the end of the arm, and by spinning fast, it does not. I will redo this experiment with small roller for the sliding support because perhaps the gyroscopic torque is so strong that the sliding (perfectly adapted and oiled) tubing is perhaps too much in friction. So no conclusion on this point. But leave the door open for such a possbility.

B-
At 12, there is the liberation of the constrained precession. (just for info on my flat Fiala device , i liberate at 1 o'clock seems better )
Analyse:
The gyro "jump"in the air and sharply slows down(between 12 and 11) but it will not go straight up because at this moment the stepper motor should stop motorizing instantly in order to not force the precession faster than the natural gravity action.
On my  flat device the tracting wheel "free fall" and liberate the gyro and no more tracts.
on my vertical twin device i have modified the guiding track so the gyro can "free fall" inward.and make a long curve back for the next swing.
For your steppermotor  system i wonder how you can get this liberation without disconnecting (detaching) the motor from the gyro (perhaps a mechanical clutch as per ICE starter) or a super fine stepping programmation.

And i insist, sofar i know, there should be NO mean to limit this natural precession, or the effect is killed immediately
For info on my vertical device the only fact that, if the swing is too strong,  the gyro can touch (percute) each other, decrease drastically the efficiency.

C-
Between 11 and 6, there is the big mystery,

Analyse:
 the gyro narturally precess freely and nutate (wave movement) and i cannot say if there is a decrease of speed rotation. So not sure that there is a deceleration between 11 and 6.

To check this point i think we could sequence the video part 8 or part 6. How can we do this with the computer ?

What we also see clearly in part 8 that during the nutation the substrate also slightly waves siwardwards

But the puzzling thing here is that during this sequence, the gyro does something that should not happen on this earth. It seems to lose some of something, so it becomes almost nothing in term of inertial forces. You see what i mean. Yes so what it is? I do not even dare to write what i vaguely suppose because the Haarp protection dom of my bunker is out of stock and will be delivered later.

And to check this point i have not yet found an experiment. Any idea.

D-
Between 6 and 5 the gyro is sharply reaccelerated and we volontarily kill the free precession effect so the gyro retrieve all of its inertial angular property . (centrifugal force stay unknown)
Analyse:
At 6 the stepper should be running at full speed and suddenly reattached to the gyro to create the strongest instant acceleration as possible and of course simultneously constrain the monster precession torque.

On part 8 i think now that the right drift is due to this brutal reatachement, with strong instant accéleration which induces a slight but powerfull right sidewards push.

And back to A

Hope this helps

Laurent


Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #156 on: March 03, 2018, 01:57:59 PM »
Laurent, thank you for describing your understanding of the Fiala device. This "freeing" of the arm could be a problem when using a stepper motor.

It is good that your bunker nears its completion. You have triggered the wrath of not only the men in black (agents of an alian race), also the Bilddrbergers and the freemasons are getting agitated. Be careful and ready for anything.

Greetings Conrad

P.S.: many good men have died in the name of the truth.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #156 on: March 03, 2018, 01:57:59 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #157 on: March 05, 2018, 06:35:23 PM »
Slow progress: the two gyroscopes, each on a stepper motor, are ready. At the moment I am working on the frame with the wheels (goes underneath the platform carrying the stepper motors).

I put a "roller" (ball bearing acts as a little wheel) underneath the gyroscopes to take the weight as long as they are not precessing upwards. The arms with the gyroscopes at their end are now very easily turned full circle (because the nicely rolling "rollers" carry the weight of the gyroscopes.)

Precessing upwards can be inhibited by putting a wedge between stepper motor axle and arm. Precessing downwards is not possible because the groscopes "roll" on the platform (like the "track" in the Fiala patent).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #158 on: March 05, 2018, 07:33:01 PM »
Hi conrad

very nice work, and you know what, it will very probably work.

Today i tried to install a small gyro with an engine on a normal servo + - 60 degrees.(total 120 degrees)

The servo can free precess on one way and is in constrain precession on the back way.

S i set my servo tester on automatic for back and forth movement.

Put everything on a chariot, and guess what it goes forward.

The free precession should be very light, just not touching the limitator. If the precession raise too much, it seems that the effect and the swing is too much schoky. But we have to test every thing.

I have not tested on the marbles and on the suspended wheel, because first i want to redo a twin system with bigger servo and a much better servo controller. (arduino with the back and forth programm)

Conrad your stepper motor in back and forth movement and the right programmation will be a killer.

But don't forgett what Fiala said , to get the best effect, you should have the max of gyroscopic weight and if possible concentrated in  the rim of the gyro, And as few as possible rotating passive mass. In other word the gyro should be mounted on a light structure.

Hope this helps

Laurent

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #158 on: March 05, 2018, 07:33:01 PM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #159 on: March 05, 2018, 10:27:02 PM »
Hi conrad

just for fun

the video of this really unexpected result.

But sofar no marble test nor suspended wheel test so we have to be very carefull with this test.

I will have to buidl a twin and more stable system for comparison

hope this helps

https://youtu.be/CErrMK4MvVs

Laurent

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #160 on: March 06, 2018, 09:05:23 AM »
Hi conrad

just for fun

the video of this really unexpected result.

But sofar no marble test nor suspended wheel test so we have to be very carefull with this test.

I will have to buidl a twin and more stable system for comparison

hope this helps

https://youtu.be/CErrMK4MvVs

Laurent

Laurent, fascinating, it seems to be difficult to predict in which direction a Fiala type machine will go.

For me the unexpected part is the direction of movement. I think it has to do with "speeding up" and "slowing down" the circular (120°) movement of the arm (carrying the gyro). This change of speed is the crucial contribution and one has to gain control of this speed change (which I will try with thew stepper motors).

Your latest machine (video part 13) is speeding up the arm in both directions and more so on the way back (when the gyro is precessing downwards). When the gyro is precessing upwards it imparts a high resistance to the servo and therefore the acceleration of the arm is less than on the return movement.

Laurent, could you try to inhibit the upward precessing of the gyro by putting a wedge where the arm is fixed to the servo? I predict that the machine will only move back and forth. The "rowing" only works if one way has a different speed change of the arm than the other way. It is like the oar (when rowing a boat) moves through air on one way and through water on the other. I think that a complete circle of the arm (carrying the gyro) is better than "rowing".

But my prediction is not based on knowledge, just a guess.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #160 on: March 06, 2018, 09:05:23 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #161 on: March 06, 2018, 09:18:12 AM »
It can be predicted

Newtons laws will always hold true


https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/newton.html
This is referenced to an airplane, but the same holds true for a gyro
or a rock floating in space.

In circular form, the arc of forced precession must not be 180 degrees
Or the forces will balance out in opposing directions.


Here it is again, applied to circular motion
http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~hemh1/gyroscopes/newton.html

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #162 on: March 06, 2018, 04:31:20 PM »
Laurent, fascinating, it seems to be difficult to predict in which direction a Fiala type machine will go.

For me the unexpected part is the direction of movement. I think it has to do with "speeding up" and "slowing down" the circular (120°) movement of the arm (carrying the gyro). This change of speed is the crucial contribution and one has to gain control of this speed change (which I will try with thew stepper motors).

Your latest machine (video part 13) is speeding up the arm in both directions and more so on the way back (when the gyro is precessing downwards). When the gyro is precessing upwards it imparts a high resistance to the servo and therefore the acceleration of the arm is less than on the return movement.

Laurent, could you try to inhibit the upward precessing of the gyro by putting a wedge where the arm is fixed to the servo? I predict that the machine will only move back and forth. The "rowing" only works if one way has a different speed change of the arm than the other way. It is like the oar (when rowing a boat) moves through air on one way and through water on the other. I think that a complete circle of the arm (carrying the gyro) is better than "rowing".

But my prediction is not based on knowledge, just a guess.

Greetings, Conrad

Hi conrad

I am not sure that the speed of rotation is different on both   parts of the stroque. (back and forth)

What is sure is that there is the swing stroque where the gyro want  but cannot precess at all (it simply apply a unusefull down torque on the arm which is mechnically constrained  ) during this phase the gyro translate along a planar path, and exhibit full inertia.(Fiala patent)

Then at the end of the swing stroque the servo immediately invert the translation, which seems perhaps even better than the "free fall " of the Fiala's system, and immediately the gyro can free precess, but the precssion is forced by the servo, it is no more a natural gravity free precession.
And during this forced precession, the gyro seems , as per the Fiala's patent ,  also" lose some of the something", and exhibit less inertia on the way back for a new swing stroque.

So we have the assymetry of inertia (harwey Fiala) between the back and the forth translation. This is why it works as to my understanding and at my absolute stupefaction.

You can notice that the Swing speed is not very high, that is due to the fact that this rotation speed must match the gyro spinning speed, so in the forced free precession back loop, the gyro should not raise up too much.
 
Your definition of the oar just above the water for the back loop is perfect.

 I have noticed that if i swing too fast than the gyro lift ut almost vertically (and more) and at the end of the back loop, when the servo brutally reinvert the translation for the swing sequence, the gyro percutes strongly the downwards mechanical limitator, and everything woobble as crazy and  the efficiency is very poor.

What is puzzling is that during this way back the rotation speed seems the same as the swing rotation speed. On the Fiala's the natural precession translation is much slower than the swing speed ?

Your proposition to limit the up raise of the gyro , will make no more assymetry ( the gyro is not allowed to free precess at all) between the 2 stroques and it is sure that the device will stay wobbling back and forth without forward movement.

Finally the back and forth mouvement, is very convenient, because you can power the gyro very easily and with electric wire, So no contact rings or other commutator necessary, you can also make twin device easily.
Apropos i wonder if it would work with one oscillating single servo (120 degrees), with one single motor and 2 gyros  monted in opposition. So one gyro is swinging (motorizing) and the other is precessing (not motorizing) and than the contrary??

Youup a lot to think

Laurent

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #163 on: March 09, 2018, 07:50:01 PM »
Programming can start next week. The wheels are not mounted during the program development phase.


Greetings, Conrad

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #164 on: March 09, 2018, 10:32:31 PM »
Hi conrad

good to see you going on the test

I have also learned to program my arduino and i can do what i want with my servos for this purpose.

Just for an important info i tried the "kayak rowing" (see picture ) on one single servo oscillating back and forth, and it does not work at all.

The gyros are correctly swinging ad precessing as i would expect but no movement at all , only wobbling back and forth.

I had the same result with the Fiala Fig 8 i tried .

And as soon as i put away one gyro , the device goes happily forward, very puzzling ?

So i am making a flat forced precession device with twin gyros , but rowing simultaneously

Always so interesting and surprising this experiment

Laurent

 

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