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Author Topic: inertial propulsion with gyroscope  (Read 21835 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2018, 09:15:38 PM »
Direction of precession and axial tilts are dependent upon rotational direction
Two oppositely spun gyros will precess in opposite directions with the same tilt.


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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2018, 09:15:38 PM »

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2018, 10:14:53 PM »
Direction of precession and axial tilts are dependent upon rotational direction
Two oppositely spun gyros will precess in opposite directions with the same tilt.

@sm0ky2: Thank you for the hint. I want to do about the same what the person is doing in his video by hand (starting from minute 6 on) with a stepper motor. The stepper motor will replace the center (the horizontally turning thing with the black wheel holding the rod leading to the gyroscope) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldqUV-DXiUg

I mentioned the video already in a previous post. There are many good videos on YouTube about the behavior of a gyroscope. Of course there are also a lot of bad videos about "space drives" based on gyroscopes. Hopefully you will be able to select the instructive ones.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2018, 10:31:03 PM »
Hi all

and finally the part 10 of my video serie on "inertial propulsion with gyroscope"

https://youtu.be/MjoyPU5t2ys

I think i cannot make much more, because as i already said i am not a propellor seller, and to me these video are a confirmation of the expectation of Prof. Eric Laithwaite.

If you put 2 gyros (a twin) system in opposition , you get a perfectly straight forward movement. All the sideward forces are in counter action and it stays only the forward displacement.

So now there are always the vertical forces and they are also asymetric, so for a totally perfect system you need another twin system inverted , to counteract the said vertical forces.

Finally this sytem works with gravity, SO IT IS USELESS in the space.

But perhaps (almost sure) if i add some spring to mimic the gravity it will also work in space.

I have to phone to Ellon Musk.

Good night at all

Laurent

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2018, 10:31:03 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2018, 11:32:42 PM »
Hi all

and finally the part 10 of my video serie on "inertial propulsion with gyroscope"

https://youtu.be/MjoyPU5t2ys

I think i cannot make much more, because as i already said i am not a propellor seller, and to me these video are a confirmation of the expectation of Prof. Eric Laithwaite.

If you put 2 gyros (a twin) system in opposition , you get a perfectly straight forward movement. All the sideward forces are in counter action and it stays only the forward displacement.

So now there are always the vertical forces and they are also asymetric, so for a totally perfect system you need another twin system inverted , to counteract the said vertical forces.

Finally this sytem works with gravity, SO IT IS USELESS in the space.

But perhaps (almost sure) if i add some spring to mimic the gravity it will also work in space.

Laurent

@Laurent: Thank you for showing your machines and thereby avoiding the usual "I do not show you my multi million dollar invention". The machine in part 10 is wonderful, full of ideas and good craftsmanship. Only one DC-motor and no control circuit (besides the speed control).

Your latest video suggests that my stepper motor version will work and that a full circle movement of the gyros is not necessary. Your tests help me a lot because I do not have to redo your whole series of builds. I can step directly to the point where you get the best result.

I am not yet convinced that it will work in space, but I think it is worthwhile to do further tests (at least for me it is worthwhile).

Speculation: In the direction when the axle engages the guides (the speed up phase) the gyros precess upwards and should not put more weight on the wagon. But on the way back, when gravity gets them, more weight is put on the wagon, hence the wheels have more friction (more roll friction and more friction for the little bearing balls in the wheels).

Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldqUV-DXiUg from minute 6 on when the person has it on scales. He demonstrates the "no additional weight" and "more weight" depending on the direction of the precssion.

Laurent, maybe you can put your part 10 machine on the swing you showed in part 6 and 7. Also an ordinary swing like the ones for children could be interesting because your latest machine produces thrust in one direction (hopefully not also in the other direction). If the children swing stays permanently away from its rest position, it would be a god indication of real unidirectional net thrust. Since your gyros move back and forth air friction should cancel itself, unless the fast spin of the gyros causes air displacement in one direction. You can test this by only spinning the gyros (no back and forth movement) on the children swing.

My scepticism is not directed against Laurent's marvelous builds, I just speculate and try to find tests which give more clues. There are thousands of contraptions with gyros alleged to be space drives but none could convince a broader public. If we put conspiracy aside, it indicates that we are up against a century of deluded ideas. But may be Laurent is the man to show it to the world.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #109 on: February 25, 2018, 01:06:22 AM »
Gyros for propulsion and inertial-reference are already employed by most space agencies.
They have completely replaced fueled thrusters.


There are several gyros in the new cubesats

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #109 on: February 25, 2018, 01:06:22 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #110 on: February 25, 2018, 11:52:08 AM »
Gyros for propulsion and inertial-reference are already employed by most space agencies.
They have completely replaced fueled thrusters.

There are several gyros in the new cubesats


@sm0ky2: the gyroscopes in the space probes are all for == ROTATING == the probes, not for linear propulsion. Are you kidding or does this crucial fact escape your attention? You must be making jokes just to lead everyone on a fool's journey. I will not answer to your posts any more because you can't be serious.


Greetings, Conrad

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #111 on: February 25, 2018, 12:20:50 PM »

There are three types of gyros used to control spacecraft
And no they do not act as linear propulsion
But one type does propel (indirectly)
As I will explain


First, there is a sensing gyro used for inertial reference.
This tells the spacecraft information about its absolute motion.


Secondly, is the control-moment gyro, this handles rotation of the craft


And 3rd are a group of reaction-wheel gyros that control the crafts motion
This is done by rotating the craft about perpendicular axes,
The most common configuration uses 4 reaction wheels
To ‘walk’ the craft in desired direction, by turning it from one corner
then the next, like we do with large heavy boxes.
By spinning up a weight then changing its speed, it provides rotational torque
to the craft along one or more desired axis. This is how they keep from falling
to earth, without the use of rockets.
It is much more than just “spinning”.




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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #111 on: February 25, 2018, 12:20:50 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #112 on: February 25, 2018, 12:49:37 PM »
How it is done in space (only rotation or attitude control): https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/legacy/files/Spinning_World.pdf

The "walking" only works on earth because the corners or edges of the cube experience friction on the surface where the cube "walks": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6p-1J551Y

If you want to move a spacecraft into a higher orbit, you need a rocket type thingy (you have to throw away mass). With gyros or reaction wheels (unbalanced gyros) alone the spacecraft (orbiting a planet) will fall out of the sky on your head to teach you a lesson.

Please stop the nonsense, it is not funny any more. But it is my own fault that I let myself been drawn into a fool's discourse. But you annoy me and I can barely hold myself back from being angry (a failure on my part) but I am only human. You have succeeded with your stupid agitation, I got agitated. What a success, you can annoy someone, congratulation, what a feat. This must make your day.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #113 on: February 25, 2018, 05:36:09 PM »
Tell that to NASA or the ESA


I’m not the one you need to convince


The use of gyros to stabilize orbit saves them trillions a year in sending fuel
to space to maintain satellites and the ISS

The fact that these are not falling to earth
is self-evident


Of course “walking” a cube on a flat plane in gravity
is much different than an object on 3 dimensional space
I was using that as an analogy for the way it actually works


Your anger is based on a preconceived set of knowledge
And is similar to the violence caused during the crusades.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #113 on: February 25, 2018, 05:36:09 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #114 on: February 25, 2018, 06:28:05 PM »
https://youtu.be/EXnqTtZ5pW0
Basic intro


https://youtu.be/AmrUxEAKQI0
How an SPM is used to Maintain orbit
 (not changing altitude, but maintaining it)
                       ^L
This offsets a great deal of fuel cost for low-drag craft
Greater the drag, the greater the loss in velocity
This loss can only be offset by acceleration, which uses rockets.
SPM maneuvers alter the trajectory to maintain the orbital plane
Which is similar to a gravitational assist.
The SPM uses conservation of momentum to maintain
the orbital plane.


https://youtu.be/E4hf5N5VgHc
(Time stamp 26:20)
Turning, rotating, pointing (attitude)
                                          ^T


https://youtu.be/n896_JvWxVE
Advanced mathematical simulation




To increase velocity or change altitude
engines must be used
https://youtu.be/pTydlh8ifoA






Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #115 on: February 25, 2018, 10:05:20 PM »
The stepper motors are mounted on a platform 0.6 meters wide and 0.3 metres long. The platform is ungainly wide because I want to rotate the two arms with the gyroscopes also 360° and not only a short way back and forth, just to test all possibilities. The platform will be put on a frame with wheels or suspended like a swing, possibly also be put on a little boat.

Hopefully I will get my first gyroscope tomorrow.

Greetings, Conrad

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #115 on: February 25, 2018, 10:05:20 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #116 on: February 25, 2018, 10:37:47 PM »
Quote
https://youtu.be/AmrUxEAKQI0
How an SPM is used to Maintain orbit
(not changing altitude, but maintaining it)

This offsets a great deal of fuel cost for low-drag craft[/size]Greater the drag, the greater the loss in velocity This loss can only be offset by acceleration, which uses rockets.SPM maneuvers alter the trajectory to maintain the orbital plane which is similar to a gravitational assist. The SPM uses conservation of momentum to maintain the orbital plane.

This is not for maintaining altitude, it is for a stable alignment (the right attitude not altitude). No thrust in flight direction, just angular movement. Yes, it reduces fuel cost, because no fuel has to be spent for attitude control (which is done with the reaction wheels). And with the sentence "This loss (caused by drag) can only be offset by acceleration, which uses rockets." you finally write the truth.

If the spacecraft has a profile which offers less surface to be hit by molecules in earth orbit when it is aligned in flight direction, then this alignment helps to reduce drag. But this drag reduction has nothing to do with generating a thrust or additional movement in the flight direction.
 
Quote
To increase velocity or change altitude
engines must be used
https://youtu.be/pTydlh8ifoA

And exactly that is my point (and I do not know what your point is, just rumbling I guess, maybe you just want to sound clever by writing everywhere in this forum, you are an awful spammer, please go to the flat earth crowd and stay there). Increasing or decreasing velocity of a spacecraft cannot be done with gyroscopes or reaction wheels (unbalanced gyroscopes). And all "inventors" since the beginning of the patent system never could come up with a gyroscope based thruster that could change the velocity of a spacecraft. May be there is a way, but nobody could so far provide convincing proof. Let's keep that in mind. And current theory (preservation of angular and linear momentum) says that too.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #117 on: February 26, 2018, 10:21:03 PM »
Hi all

for info i tested the double gyro on the suspended wheel with the monotoron kevlar thread , (because as the device is quite heavy plus the counter weight, the ball bearing is not fluid enough in rotation   )it works well with a weak but steady acceleration. I just say this machine is a pain because i have broke almost everything during my testing. The last test was with the system completely vertically (no more 45 degrees inclination)

I think it is time now to investigate what is going on here. So i imagine to try to isolate each "special behavior" of the gyro with different experiments.

For today i wanted to test the difference of the centrifugal force, between a dead mass (gyro stopped) and  the gyro spinning and rotating but the precession is "contained" the gyro can not raise (it rotate on a planar path). So to mimic the swing on the Fiala device.

Because as you have perhaps observed in the test on the substrate and marbles (part eight ) , the device drift on the right side (down screen) when the gyro location during the swing is on the opposite side. So the centrifugla force should propell the device on the left (upscreen). But not at all.

So video should provide an explanation because it seems that the gyro and the dead mass as a completely different behaviour concerning the centrifugal force.

https://youtu.be/7xZoMDKsJR0

hope this helps

Laurent

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #118 on: February 26, 2018, 11:52:23 PM »
The centrifugal force of the gyro, in its own plane of rotation
Because it rotates as at a much faster speed
Is much greater than the weight of the gyro slowly rotating
in the plane of the arm.
It overpowers the smaller force




Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2018, 12:35:09 AM »

So video should provide an explanation because it seems that the gyro and the dead mass as a completely different behaviour concerning the centrifugal force.

https://youtu.be/7xZoMDKsJR0

hope this helps

Laurent

@Laurent: your part 11 is very instructive, I did not know that (different behaviour of dead weights and gyros).

I attach a drawing which shows what I want to test first. The spinning gyros should be turned like I indicate in the drawing. It has to be done with stepper motors and microprocessor control. I did that with dead weights (about 12 years ago) and it did not work. Maybe it works with spinning gyros because this is what Fiala suggests in his patent. Also you observed that the turning speeds up when the axle of the gyro engages the track and slows down on the other half cycle (or on the way back with the"rowing machine" of your part 10).

The "rowing" that your machine does in part 10 is mechanically simpler to implement than a full circle but might not be optimal. But I will also test the "rowing".

We will see once I can do my tests, but it is a lot of work to build something. Till now I could attach one gyro to its stepper motor.

Greetings, Conrad

 

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