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Author Topic: inertial propulsion with gyroscope  (Read 21986 times)

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2018, 10:37:20 PM »
I want to report some work I have done some years ago:

I built a platform with two stepper motors. Each stepper motor had an arm with a heavy weight on its end.

1) The arms were first turned synchronously and at a constant angular speed. Not surprisingly the platform moved back and forth (in the ideal situation without friction). But also in the real world it moved back and forth on the spot. The highest speed of the movement was observed at the middle of the way of the back and forth movement.

2) The arms were turned synchronously but accelerated from 0° to 180° and decelerated from 180° to 360°. The movement of the platform was again back an forth on the spot (theoretically without friction and in the real world if friction was very low). But the highest speed of the movement was observed near the end of the respective movement (not in the middle as with a uniform angular speed).

Now comes my speculation:

What happens if gyroscopes are used instead of the dead heavy weights at the end of the arms? Specially if the arms are accelerated and decelerated as in point 2) above?

Will "nodding" the gyroscopes make any difference? Not a slight "nodding" as in the Fiala patent but lets "nod" up 45° from the vertical plane during acceleration (first half circle) and then "nod" down -45° from the vertical plane during deceleration (second half circle). "Nodding" like a sine wave where the zero crossing is at 0° and 180° of the circle described by the gyroscope on the arm.

Greetings, Conrad

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2018, 10:37:20 PM »

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2018, 11:33:11 PM »
Hi all

to conrad

yes your observation is right the swinging part is much faster than the precessing part.

So i can suppose that at the "jumping in free fall "moment of the traction wheel there is some extra speed that induces a slight forced precession which provoke the nutation.

Perhaps you could try some spinning gyros on your setup but don't forget that a vertical oscillation of the shaft has to be possible if you want to get any possible effect.

Just for fun prof Steven Johns asked me on youtube to let the system spin so long as possible.

So AMEN i did it, i replaced the monotoron kevlar line with a solid iron thread at the end of which i installed a high quality  ballbearing just at the top of the triangle bycicle wheel suspending wire.

And i let the system spinning and here the results.

first i put on a new charged 300 ma lipo battery and let the system spin  and the tension of the battery going down to a regular descharging rate during 4.5 mnutes.

than i measure the time to complete a full rotation each 3 turns (with a chronometer and by hand, so not super accurate)

so

1 turn    14,3 sec
4 turn     13.9 sec
7 turn     13.9 sec
10 turn    13.7 sec
13turn     13.3 sec
16turn     13.1sec
19 turn    12.9 sec
22 turn    13.00
25 turn    13.00

then i ear clearly the battery begins to deplete so end of the test

total duration of the test 4.5 warm up + about 5.5 test (25 turns at average of 13.3 sec)  = 10 minutes

So as you can see, the system seems not to slow down

OK will think of further test i can do with the sytem

Any good ideas are welcome if not too complex


to TK

yes i am sure that forced precession is a must.

I am slowly preparing me to test the Fialas forced precession system (second part of the patent) i am sampling some servos to this intention

Laurent

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2018, 11:50:54 AM »
to conrad

yes your observation is right the swinging part is much faster than the precessing part.

So i can suppose that at the "jumping in free fall "moment of the traction wheel there is some extra speed that induces a slight forced precession which provoke the nutation.

Perhaps you could try some spinning gyros on your setup but don't forget that a vertical oscillation of the shaft has to be possible if you want to get any possible effect.

Laurent


The big riddle for me is this rather "small vertical oscillation" which seems to be all important. I wonder whether a "big vertical oscillation" would make the machine more effective?

Also the "free fall requirement" (when the traction wheel is not engaged) is very mysterious.

In addition there seems to be a speed requirement imposed on the gyroscope. In the videos one sees Laurent adjusting the turning speed of the gyroscope. In the patent Fiala hints that the rotation speed of the gyroscope needs to be in a certain relation to the rotation speed of the arm carrying the gyroscope. Fiala goes on and on about the diameter of the traction wheel.

Very strange! The patent does not explain at which moment (while the arm carrying the gyroscope moves in a circle) the forward force is generated. And most strange is Fiala's idea that mass is decreasing once an object goes faster than light.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2018, 11:50:54 AM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2018, 12:50:29 PM »
To TK

Your remarks on the stopped gyro was intriging, and i did a test to check your proposal. As i have some of those 360 servos i mounted the gyro as a dead mass on one of them.

https://youtu.be/p3iEy5sprpA

But no chance to spin the bicycle wheel. In addition,I tested different speed and direction of rotation , and even by aiding the rotation it invariabely go to a stop. Exactly as Steven Jones said.

So the gyro seems to do the DIRTY WORK.


To conrad

yes the Fiala patent is disturbing, and it is exactly why i was intersted in a replication.

I hope that people will ,as you do, take the time to investigate the patent and eventually find what is exactly this DIRTY WORK as TK name it.

Laurent

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2018, 02:50:29 PM »
To conrad

yes the Fiala patent is disturbing, and it is exactly why i was intersted in a replication.

I hope that people will ,as you do, take the time to investigate the patent and eventually find what is exactly this DIRTY WORK as TK name it.

Laurent

My tests with the platform I showed above had the same results as your latest video (inertial propulsion with gyroscope part 7, servo driven).

Ratchet wheels on my platform (wheels which only turn in one direction) made it move forward because friction inhibited the backwards movement. One could also make the platform shoot forward once by starting from a wall which inhibited the first backward movement.

Turning the arms slowly from 0° to 180° and turning them very fast (fast speed up and fast breaking) from 180° to 360° (arms were turned synchronously) also caused forward movement because the slow backwards movement was mostly inhibited by friction.

So, my contraption (as shown above in principle) always needed friction to move forwards no matter what strange acceleration and deceleration I imparted on the two arms with complicated drive algorithms for the stepper motors.

So, moving dead weights in a circle seems to need friction for one directional movement (without friction and specially in free fall it would move back and forth on the spot).


Now let's put gyroscopes instead of dead weights. And as I said in previous posts, the strange idea of Fiala is a half cycle acceleration and a half cycle "free fall" which results in a strange "nodding" as I call it.

I have no idea how to implement "free fall" or "free coasting of a gyroscope" with a stepper motor because a stepper motor cogs severely in case no current is supplied. And I do not know how to drive a DC motor precisely which would be needed to accelerate for exactly one half turn. A DC motor does not exert much breaking forth in case no current is supplied, but still, it would not be "free coasting" too. So, I end up with the strange tracks in the Fiala patent which worry me a lot. From a mechanical point of view the Fiala contraption is very badly designed (acceleration by grating on a track and bumping against an incline on the track) and there should be an equivalent design which is more sound.

I do not want to start a replication till I have an idea for "free fall" or "free coasting of a gyroscope" with a more reliable drive mechanism than a "track". I like stepper motors because they allow for repeatable and precise speed and position control. DC motors are no good because they hardly allow position control and only vague speed control. A servo is not bad (because it allows position control) but also cogs severely if no current is supplied. From a control point of view a servo is a badly designed stepper motor based on a DC motor with position feedback. A servo is also slow in comparison to a stepper motor (but can be much stronger because a fast turning DC motor is geared down).


How important is the "free fall" or "free coasting of the gyroscope" in Fiala's patent? And is "nodding" really necessary? I pose this questions over and over again in my mind when thinking about the Fiala patent.


Accelerating a gyroscope (when it moves in a circle) seems to have the same effect as accelerating a dead weight, but then when acceleration stops a dead weight does noting strange but a gyroscope will "nod" (it translates the imparted acceleration into a nod). And it seems that this "nod" (which is not allowed to be "restricted" and has to happen "freely") is the trick and this "nod" needs not to be much, just a "little nod". Well, this is my bad and incomplete explanation.


Laurent's big and important contribution is that his replication shows that there is really something interesting in the Fiala patent. But I think that doing a second replication is not a step forward. I want to isolate the effect which apparently exits (as Laurent shows) with other means than a "track". May be a servo can be used. The servo could engage a lever while the gyroscope does a half circle and disengages the lever while the gyroscope "free falls" the other half circle. Well, needs some more thinking.


I have stepper motors, DC motors and servos. I just need to buy a modern motor control shield for the Arduino https://www.adafruit.com/product/1438, may be two Arduinos and two motor control shields because I want two gyroscopes turn in a circle, one CW and the other CCW. The gyroscopes could be driven with DC motors and a simple speed control and their own battery (like Laurent has implemented his gyroscope with the heavy fidget spinner rings).

Laurent, what kind of speed control do you use for your gyroscope (must be a little DC motor speed control board) and what DC motor?


Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2018, 02:50:29 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2018, 06:25:00 PM »
Here a thread from 2013 and 2014 where a person tried to build a space drive (without success) http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.WocPXKjiaHs


In this thread I posted photos of my own attempt as I described above. I attach two photos of the self contained little platform which was driven by a PIC-processor and a two stepper motor driver chips. It carried its own power supply (batteries). By reprogramming the PIC-processor I could try many different movements of the two arms each carrying a dead weight (brass ball and little brass plate at the end of a short arm fixed to the axle of a stepper motor). The arms were short because the two stepper motors had little torque. I needed to avoid missteps of the stepper motors in order to maintain programmed acceleration and deceleration patterns for the arms. I also tested the contraption swimming on water (on a piece of wood) and there one could clearly see that it moved only back and forth.


I built three contraptions. The first one was not self contained (needed wires to a stationary power supply and controller) and a third bigger one with strong stepper motors flinging 800 gram weights. It was fun and an absolute failure besides learning how to drive stepper motors. The shown second contraption was the best from a design point of view.


Just to show that I have been there with the usual outcome (failure). Everybody can build something that works. But it needs great skill to always build something that does not work.


Greetings, Conrad


(P.S.: I dumped the contraptions some years ago when I cleaned house, but luckily I found the photos on overunity.com)

Offline DrJones

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2018, 06:44:37 PM »
  This is very interesting work.  Thanks for the continuing videos, Laurent.


  I have a further suggestion for an experiment, and have stopped in our travels to make a quick post.
 
   Rotate your device 180-degrees, so now the "push" should be in the opposite direction.*  Now see which direction (counter-clockwise or clockwise?) the bicycle wheel turns.  Even though it will take longer (I think) to make a complete turn, the bicycle wheel should still turn.  Which direction the bike wheel rotates will tell us something![/font][/size]

[/font][/size]
*Alternatively, move the device without rotating it, to the OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE BICYCLE WHEEL. [/font][/size]
--Steven Jones[/font][/size]

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2018, 06:44:37 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2018, 09:17:30 PM »
This thread http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.Woc1v6jiaHt is very instructive. The "inventor" is spinning two gyroscopes (drilling machines) and even waves them up and down like in Fig. 20 of the Fiala patent (see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgCgrMetRsc ). It does not work, although the "inventor" wants to see something in his demonstration (but he stopped in 2014). The "inventor" exhibits the usual blindness concerning his "invention".

So, just spinning two gyroscopes (like I did with the dead weights) and even "waving" or "nodding" them up and down will not work. One seems to need that "free fall" or "free coasting of the gyroscopes" for half a circle like in Fig. 1 of the Fiala patent.

It means for me that I do not need to test "restricted" movement of gyroscopes around a full circle. I have to find a solution for the "free fall" or "free coasting" half circle.

I also suspect that only Laurent's replication works (Fig. 1 of the Fiala patent) und not the embodiment according to Fig. 20 of the Fiala patent. I see no "free fall periode" in Fig. 20 and therefore it will not work for the same reasons as the contraption in the unsuccessful thread http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.Woc1v6jiaHt . It might work if the "reset cylinder 182" (see Fig. 20) can set free the gyroscope for one half circle. The embodiment of Fig. 20 also lacks the "speeding up during one half circle", which hints that the inventor never built it.

Very intriguing! It always pays to study prior work. Most of the things imaginable have already been tried by some poor soul in the past.

Greetings, Conrad
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 08:49:59 AM by conradelektro »

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2018, 11:02:16 AM »
This thread http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.Woc1v6jiaHt is very instructive. The "inventor" is spinning two gyroscopes (drilling machines) and even waves them up and down like in Fig. 20 of the Fiala patent (see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgCgrMetRsc ). It does not work, although the "inventor" wants to see something in his demonstration (but he stopped in 2014). The "inventor" exhibits the usual blindness concerning his "invention".

So, just spinning two gyroscopes (like I did with the dead weights) and even "waving" or "nodding" them up and down will not work. One seems to need that "free fall" or "free coasting of the gyroscopes" for half a circle like in Fig. 1 of the Fiala patent.

It means for me that I do not need to test "restricted" movement of gyroscopes around a full circle. I have to find a solution for the "free fall" or "free coasting" half circle.

I also suspect that only Laurent's replication works (Fig. 1 of the Fiala patent) und not the embodiment according to Fig. 20 of the Fiala patent. I see no "free fall periode" in Fig. 20 and therefore it will not work for the same reasons as the contraption in the unsuccessful thread http://overunity.com/14090/m-drive-reactionless-drive-invented-by-me/#.Woc1v6jiaHt . It might work if the "reset cylinder 182" (see Fig. 20) can set free the gyroscope for one half circle. The embodiment of Fig. 20 also lacks the "speeding up during one half circle", which hints that the inventor never built it.

Very intriguing! It always pays to study prior work. Most of the things imaginable have already been tried by some poor soul in the past.

Greetings, Conrad

Hi conrad

This experiment is one of the most brain shaking machine.

Thank's very much for your interest.

I have made a rapid tour on the link you mention and i tried to figure out the analogy with Fig 20 of the fiala's patent. On the experiment of M.drive i don't see the precise timing of the gyros they seem to go back and forth quite heratically. Now if you look at the graph on fig 29 of fiala's patent, it seems clear that there is first a motorization of the rotation of the device on half a turn, which induces precession of the gyro which can freely raise up 60 degrees. Then the  rotation's motorization stops, and the piston (182)  push down the gyros  and this pushdown is the swing which should motorize up the whole device. What is not clear to me is if when the rotation's motorisation stops, if the vertical main shaft also stops or if it is free to spin during the down push. If it is free to spin, the down push should also exhibit an axial precession and perhaps diminish the power of the down swing but i dono.
M. Fiala speak also of stepper motor for this fig 20 setup. So perhaps you can imagine a programation for that purpose. I am personnally thinking to use 180 degree servo with one way bearing for the main shaft (if it is free to spin after its motorization) and another 180 deg servo for the vertical up and down movement. But it will not be an easy task for sure. And as you said some good studying before doing is a must.

To Steven

Thank's for the proposal, i will do.

Just for info, i made a small reflection this night:

when the device is on a flat floor and mounted on wheels (ball bearing) it speed up almost instantly, i mean at the first rotation (swing) it goes forward. But on the suspended wheel it need a very long time to speed up (some minutes from the zero speed start point).

So i think that the answer is that the suspended wheel (with 3 lines) plus a vertical monotoron, can woble in all direction and this wobling make the "floor of the wheel" somehow "wavy"
.
So when the device is on a flat hard floor,  the swing of the gyro (when the traction wheel is in contact with the traction ring) is perfectly horizontal all along the 180 derees and the gyro does not precess at all, so the swing is very efficient .

But on the suspended wheel, the floor is "wavy" and the swing is not perfectly horizontal all along the 180 degrees, so the gyro can slightly precess and , if the theory of m. Fiala is right, it loses some angular momentum, so the swing is not very efficient.

So i will redo completely the experiment with 4 lines  and no monotoron to max stabilise the suspended wheel and see if the gyro accelerate better, and then try all your suggestions.

Fascinating gyros !

Laurent

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2018, 11:02:16 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2018, 09:10:12 PM »
@Laurent: I will read more carefully in the Fiala patent about the Fig. 20 type embodiment, may be there is more information in the many pages of the patent.

I think I found a solution for building a Fig. 1 embodiment (like your replication) with a stepper motor and no tracks. I will make drawings for discussion prior to implementation.

The Adafruit motor shield for the Arduino is in the mail. It should open up many options.

But everything is a lot of work and will take time.

A one way bearing on a servo is a good idea. If you drive a 360° servo with a microprocessor you can reduce its turning speed after 180° to let the gyroscope "fly freely" for the other half circle. At the end of the circle (at 0°=360°) you catch up with the servo to push again for 180°. But you have to limit the nodding of the gyroscope again with some rails. Wait for my drawing (a few days), may be it can be done with a servo as well. I just do not like servos, but this is a personal choice. A stepper motor is best for trying many strange movements, but it has to be done with a microprocessor (a program). An Arduino with motor shield is a overkill, but so what, it is not expensive and can be programmed easily with a PC.

Laurent, could you tell me which DC motor and which speed control you use for the gyroscope shown in your videos. Your gyroscope seems to work well and I could just copy it from you (including the figet spinner rings).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline DrJones

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2018, 01:57:17 AM »
 This is an important observation, Laurent:
"So when the device is on a flat hard floor,  the swing of the gyro (when the traction wheel is in contact with the traction ring) is perfectly horizontal all along the 180 derees and the gyro does [/font]not precess[/font] at all, so the swing is very efficient ."[/font]

[/font]

[/font]
Thank you for being so careful and observant!  [/size]
   I must say that the demo you did with a device rolling freely on marbles was very convincing to me.  For then, the device is free to move linearly (the term in English is, free to translate) or to rotate - yet it is seen to move linearly!  [/size]

[/size]
PS - may I insert a quick question to you, Laurent.  Years ago, I was following your excellent progress measuring the input and output power on a simple "cold fusion" flask using electrolysis in light water H2O. You were making progressive tests and improvements.  It did appear that you were getting "anomalous excess heat" (AEH) (which I think is a MUCH better term than "cold fusion" since in light water, the basis would not be fusion.)   [/size]
    My question is - do you still think that you were getting AEH?  or did you find some mistake??[/size]

   I do not ask this to cause any embarrassment - rather, I personally think there are conditions where AEH is quite likely (based on several experiments I have seen) - and I would appreciate a quick follow-up on your intriguing set of experiments with light-water electrolysis.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2018, 01:57:17 AM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2018, 10:51:30 PM »
Hi conrad

Very good idea if you can organize a steper motor and some elegant system to mimic the fig 1.

in general i find the matos in my generous backyard as i made a lot of modellism,  i have a lot of junk stuff every where in my house.

So for the small motor it is a old Graupner 6 volts (i had since a very long time) and the gear is self made with some plastic gears ratio 1 to 3.

For the motor controllers , and brass fidget rings, and ball bearing etc.. you will find at "chinese Banggood" for very good price.  I can look for detail parts if you will.


Hi Steven

I now understand why so few people are interested in this inertial propulsion with gyro.

This is the most unintuitiv  thing i have never experienced. You think you have understood , and right after the device behave totally contrary to your expectation. Fascinating at first glance but if you have bad luck or not enough craftmanship and perseverance you will rapidly give up and say OK that's a waste of time and anyway so many people have already tried and failed.

So i think i had great  luck to get it work on my 1 part video, which encourage me to go further.

So as i said i have redone the complete suspending system and also the device itself so i can easily rototate it all the 360 degres on the basis.

First i made a serie of test clockwise. And what surprise me is that there is always some wobling but also a SIDE push. Remember the marble test where the device does not translate straight forward, but drifted sideway.
And sideway drift pushes the suspended wheel also side way.  So in the clockwise test i have to reorient the "forward push " not tangential to the bicycle rim, but much "outer" . so the forward and sideward vectors compose in a rufly steady forward tangential vector. So now it is clear to me why on this suspended wheel it is impossible to get a motorising vector as efficient as per a floor contacting machine. And of course the wobling which does not help.

Plus of course the heavy rim (615gr) plus the counter weight (220gr) to move and also the ballbearing friction etc..

But in clockwise rotation , i always get good steady rotation , i also changed the position of the device on one side of the balsa wood end to the other, as you asked, and no significant change.

But when i rotate the device 180 degres, i also change the sideward displacement, so to get some counter clockwise translation, i have to rotate MORE than the 180 degres and now the composition of the pushing vector (forward and sideward) is very bad oriented. So i get a counter clockwise rotation, but soooo weak that at each time that the sustention ball bearing have the slightest resistance, the rotation stops. I suppose that with the monotoron kevlar thread, i will get some counter clockwise turns, but i have all dismantled, and i am not very much sure that it is relevant here.

So to resume for today experiment.    when the swing of the gyro is outer the rim, it pushes efficiently, and when the swing is on the inner part of the rim =nada. So this system does not behave as a pendulum as per part 7 of my video. and I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THE GYRO dOES THE DIRTY WORK as Tinselkoala name it.

So for a good propulsion, it is absolutely necessary to mount a TWIN OPPOSITE and SYNCHRONIZED Spinning system, so the sideward forces are annulated and only stays the forward forces.

But as i said from the beginning of this thread, i am not interested in space propulsion system.

What puzzle me is the DIRTY WORK of the gyro----- what seems to create a reduction of the angular momentum in a spinning and precessing gyro.



Finally and out of topic
the big problem with my AES experiment was the measuremnt  of the INPUT power. So i could get no body  to help me  and only crude critics on the internet forum, so
without high quality instrument i was not able to go on this fantastic experiment. But as you say i am following the big progress of others and it seems that something is slowly progressing.
As a friend of mine says " they think that the real physic is in the classroom, not on youtube "

Laurent





Offline DrJones

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2018, 03:27:18 PM »
  Laurent, I am very impressed by your enthusiastic pursuit of truth.  I like unusual/alternative approaches also.  Thank you for responding vis-a-vis the light-water experiment.  I found your work impressive.


   Back to the gyroscope system - as I mentioned earlier, I find your floor-based system, rolling freely on marbles, to be the best and easiest to understand the motion. 


   You wrote:
"Remember the marble test where the device does not translate straight forward, but drifted sideway.[/size]And sideway drift pushes the suspended wheel also side way.  So in the clockwise test i have to reorient the "forward push " not tangential to the bicycle rim, but much "outer" . so the forward and sideward vectors compose in a rufly steady forward tangential vector. So now it is clear to me why on this suspended wheel it is impossible to get a motorising vector as efficient as per a floor contacting machine. And of course the wobling which does not help."[/size]

[/size]
 Right - a sideways drift is observed, that's fine - it still moves in a such a way that (linear) momentum conservation appears to be challenged, and that is a lot of fun to see.


 If I could ask you to do ONE more experiment, it would be to repeat the marble test - taking video (data) for 2 or 3 minutes, and just let the device move freely.  Let's see how it behaves over time in this way.  It would be a fitting conclusion to a wonderful series of experiments that you have performed.

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2018, 07:51:21 PM »
  Laurent, I am very impressed by your enthusiastic pursuit of truth.  I like unusual/alternative approaches also.  Thank you for responding vis-a-vis the light-water experiment.  I found your work impressive.


   Back to the gyroscope system - as I mentioned earlier, I find your floor-based system, rolling freely on marbles, to be the best and easiest to understand the motion. 


   You wrote:
"Remember the marble test where the device does not translate straight forward, but drifted sideway.[/size]And sideway drift pushes the suspended wheel also side way.  So in the clockwise test i have to reorient the "forward push " not tangential to the bicycle rim, but much "outer" . so the forward and sideward vectors compose in a rufly steady forward tangential vector. So now it is clear to me why on this suspended wheel it is impossible to get a motorising vector as efficient as per a floor contacting machine. And of course the wobling which does not help."[/size]

[/size]
 Right - a sideways drift is observed, that's fine - it still moves in a such a way that (linear) momentum conservation appears to be challenged, and that is a lot of fun to see.


 If I could ask you to do ONE more experiment, it would be to repeat the marble test - taking video (data) for 2 or 3 minutes, and just let the device move freely.  Let's see how it behaves over time in this way.  It would be a fitting conclusion to a wonderful series of experiments that you have performed.


Hi Steven and all

Thank's for the proposal

Here the video

https://youtu.be/_WBD5hZu0t4

And as you can see there is a forward displacement of the center of mass of the device and the substrate almost don't move.

For info the ballbearing of the device are high quality fidget ballbearings without side protection so there spin very freely.

And as seen on the suspended wheel, there is also a sideward force to the right of the translation depacement.

So it seems that we have to seriously study what is going on here. The Fiala's patent could be a good base.

Hope this helps

Laurent


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2018, 08:03:30 PM »
Nice work Woopy




To all:


I must have missed the presumed logical fallacy.
What is the basis for conjecture against this form
of propulsion?
(I assume many of you never saw the gyro boat)


To me this all seems classical Newtonian.

 

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