Author Topic: Free Energy Revealed - Magnet Battery (Read 109572 times)

Jimboot · « **Reply #135 on:** July 07, 2008, 02:27:54 PM »

Quote from: tinu on July 06, 2008, 04:48:28 PM

Hi,

3.5V is indeed much for a chemical reaction? First question would be if there is a possibility in your setup to have several galvanic elements in series. If you have, it may well be like 0.9V x 4. If not, at this point I?d say that your friend may be perfectly right. That?s because unless you live in a very remote area, it is most probably you have built a RF antenna; what?s not clear to me is which part of your setup act as a diode but that thought is not very critical as there are explanations at hand.

Thanks Tinu,
That is tremendous feedback. At this stage I'd say the Galvanic battery in series is the most likely but there are some inconsistencies IMO that don't fit the model. Specifically getting Volts through the probe insulation and the brass washer comparison. I'll test with a faraday cage next. Mobile reception is already dodgy inside my tin shed :-)

tinu · « **Reply #136 on:** July 07, 2008, 07:39:17 PM »

Quote from: Jimboot on July 07, 2008, 02:27:54 PM

Thanks Tinu,
That is tremendous feedback. At this stage I'd say the Galvanic battery in series is the most likely but there are some inconsistencies IMO that don't fit the model. Specifically getting Volts through the probe insulation and the brass washer comparison. I'll test with a faraday cage next. Mobile reception is already dodgy inside my tin shed :-)

It?s not big deal, really. And you don?t have to thank; you?ll have plenty of opportunities to help others if you stick around long enough?
Besides, I really like your approach in learning and in conducting experiments. So, welcome to the forum and, most importantly, welcome to the world where theory meets reality and where there are ALWAYS inconsistencies. The only question is if the inconsistencies are of any significance or they are merely a sign of limitation in our equipments and models. In the last case, as you know, the standard language calls it as being ?well fit within the accepted error margins?. First case is more intriguing and large deal of efforts needs to be done by someone before being sure that the ?significant inconsistencies? observed are more than insufficient reading, searching in the literature, education or simply more than self-blindness in the desire of a new and ?great? discovery.

Keep in touch,
Tinu

Jimboot · « **Reply #137 on:** July 08, 2008, 04:17:25 PM »

I bought a new multimeter today and my results were consistent. However when I measured amperage and voltage at the same time, the volts dropped from 3 to 0.5 and the amps rose to 50 micros from 16.

Koen1 · « **Reply #138 on:** July 08, 2008, 06:43:36 PM »

Hmm well that's just plain weird, but let's give it the benefit of the doubt eh

So you do measure a current even when you use a proper isolator material?

Now I assume you're using the horseshoe magnet setup with a soft iron
or steel keeper, and the "dielectric" between the magnet and the keeper?
So you just apply the multimeter probes, one to the magnet and one to the
keeper, and you read this voltage and amperage?
(I'm assuming you used the middle of the magnet and the middle of the keeper?)

Now I'm starting to get the jitters again, even though I have actually performed
this experiment several times in the past (not using horseshoe shaped magnets)
and never got any such results...
But I'm starting to get the feeling I need to try it again, if only for my own piece of mind.

I agree with Tinu that there are some things that suggest there may be something
going on besides just galvanics, such as the proper isolation layer...
And if it were "only" galvanics, then you should indeed be able to get a similar
voltage from any other piece of nickel pressed hard against the iron keeper...
So any difference suggests an additional effect...

I have, by the way, seen the multimeter behaviour you describe often enough.
My primary project is my work on Crystal Energy Cells, which basically and
skipping a lot of complicated talk is research into an alternative form of power
source, much like a normal battery, but without the galvanics. Ehm... Ok,
granted, that sounds weird. Well, it is.

Anyway, I often test my cells for voltage/amperage, and I need to check them
for galvanic reactions too. Won't go into the methods now, but what I'm driving at
is the fact that I very often measure a clearly basically galvanic 1.1 Volts or
something of the sort on the cell electrodes, but as soon as I connect my
double measurement setup to measure amps at the same time, the volts drop
by at least 25% and sometimes a lot more as soon as the amp meter switches on.
Measuring the amperage uses a little of the voltage that was on the electrodes.
Which seems to make some sense, after all, amps is moving electrons, and
volts is static electrons, so when you want to know how many electrons flow
you'll need to get a bunch to flow between the electrodes, which lowers the charge.

I still don't follow what you meant by "switching the meter to 20" but I guess
that'll just have to remain a mystery.

hypersoniq · « **Reply #139 on:** July 09, 2008, 03:32:36 AM »

Koen1: Most likely the meter being used is NOT auto-ranging.
I have an old analog meter that required you to know the approximate range BEFORE measuring.
My newer DMM just sets range itself.

One: have you tried BOTH horeshoe magnets thru the dielectric (rather than the one magnet and a keeper)? this should negate the galvanic theory since they are the SAME metal...

As for the NdFeB block etc... magnets. Why not try connecting the washers? one on north one on south, with a thick wire making the "U"?

I MUST go get some magnets and experiment!

Jimboot · « **Reply #140 on:** July 09, 2008, 03:57:58 AM »

Well I have found the washers make a huge difference in output whether it be a galvanic reaction I am measuring or something else. Ihaven't posted photos yet as I need to clean my bench :-)

But I still don't understand how I can measure volts through plastic. Faraday cage next I think to eliminate the aerial theory.

Jimboot · « **Reply #141 on:** July 09, 2008, 06:44:50 AM »

Quote from: Koen1 on July 08, 2008, 06:43:36 PM

So you do measure a current even when you use a proper isolator material?

Yes - I'll have to double check re amps but certainly I have measured over two volts through the plastic of the alligator clip. I'll be testing tonight with another meter and different probes. I'll make a vid or take some pix.

Quote

Now I assume you're using the horseshoe magnet setup with a soft iron
or steel keeper, and the "dielectric" between the magnet and the keeper?
So you just apply the multimeter probes, one to the magnet and one to the
keeper, and you read this voltage and amperage?
(I'm assuming you used the middle of the magnet and the middle of the keeper?)

I have two setups I refer to in previous posts. I'm not using the horseshoe now as I get better readings using a neo with washers. The main setup is attached ina diagram. The blue is the paper between the magnets (yellow) . You will notice the 3rd washer is the only one that has paper either side. I realise this setup will be creating some galvanic effectn(washers are zinc plated). However I believe something else is going on as well. I clip the probe to either end of array (using alligator clips) to get voltage. I can use a mag on the 1st washer and have the alligator clip magnetically attached to it through its insulation and it will register a voltage. I find that ......odd.

Quote

you should indeed be able to get a similar
voltage from any other piece of nickel pressed hard against the iron keeper...
So any difference suggests an additional effect...

My second experiment was to measure the difference between a Galvanic reaction and simply using damp paper as a replacement for the glass of water.
This was done with a single 10mm cylinder neo and a brasswasher. I was trying to minimise the galvanic effect here so I chose a brass washer rather than zinc plated. When using the paper I place the washer upright in the centre of the mag then take measurements closer to the edge which are always higher. Tonight I'll measure both the amps and voltage for the brass washer tests.

I know this is a bold statement from a noob but here is what I think is happening. The washers are having a 'funnelling effect" of some sort. Using washers upright at least doubles the voltage in all tests.I have a few other theories but I need to learn the terminolgy before I confuse the crap out of everyone with my own "newspeak"

Quote

I still don't follow what you meant by "switching the meter to 20" but I guess
that'll just have to remain a mystery.

Not important really. Just didn't know how to read my meter. At setting '2' it would only read up to 2 volts. So I had to switch it to setting 20 for it to read anything over 2 volts and setting 200 to read anything over 20 volts.

Jimboot · « **Reply #142 on:** July 09, 2008, 01:43:27 PM »

The attached pic is what I was talking about with getting a charge through the insulation. I took a bunch of video tonight so I'll get it up tomorrow... so to speak :-)

Koen1 · « **Reply #143 on:** July 09, 2008, 02:15:26 PM »

Thanks for that very lucid reply Jimboot!

I'm going to have to try that... Digging around for my magnets now

(lol "newspeak" hehe, someone's been reading

)

sandor · « **Reply #144 on:** July 09, 2008, 03:43:56 PM »

Very silly. At first I thought you were making an elaborate joke but it looks like you are taking this seriously. First of all, it looks like you have electric and magnetic fields confused. Magnetic fields form closed loops, always closed loops, the divergence of the magnetic field is 0 because there are no magnetic monopoles though some people seem to think such may be formed at high energy levels.

Ok, if you're measuring a voltage that is not 0 there are two explanations. One, you have formed an actual galvanic cell. It's a battery - when the voltage went up when you gripped it with your bare hands that only proves it more - that's what was originally called 'animal electricity' back in the 1800s. Two, it's the floating voltage of the DMM. Digital multimeters tend to drift and may record a surprisingly large voltage if the two leads are not connected together by any low impedance connection (for instance touching them together). The semiconductors need a solid voltage to get a definite reading, even if that voltage is 0, so if you just have two wires dangling it may drift all over the place. You won't see this with a classic coil-based multimeter. As to why your new DMM measured a higher voltage with lower current, or lower voltage with higher current, I don't remember which, it's just because the device's internal impedance is different. If one of them had huge input resistance and the other had it not so huge, well, the one with the huge resistance would be able to drift more in voltage. If you try your experiment with a non-magnetized piece of iron, you'll be able to prove to yourself that nothing is going on as a result of the magnetic field. A steady magnetic field does not induce any electromotive force.

tinu · « **Reply #145 on:** July 09, 2008, 03:48:36 PM »

Quote from: Jimboot on July 09, 2008, 01:43:27 PM

The attached pic is what I was talking about with getting a charge through the insulation. I took a bunch of video tonight so I'll get it up tomorrow... so to speak :-)

That particular insulator (the yellow one) is awful in terms of un-desired effects. It retains a lot of moisture and dirt on its surface. I don?t think it conducts through it but it offers a good electrical path around; anyway, never took the time to see what?s exactly about as I don?t think it?s really worthy.

If you?re a smoker (yeah, I know it?s unhealthy but look as some minor advantages

), take off the outer foil on the pack and use it as a real insulator; it still retains a lot of static electricity (some patience and no more mechanical stress pls after placing it) but otherwise it is an excellent insulator at these voltages. It shall quickly solve several main questions. Please post back.

Best regards,
Tinu

Jimboot · « **Reply #146 on:** July 10, 2008, 01:34:18 AM »

Quote from: sandor on July 09, 2008, 03:43:56 PM

Very silly. At first I thought you were making an elaborate joke but it looks like you are taking this seriously. First of all, it looks like you have electric and magnetic fields confused. Magnetic fields form closed loops, always closed loops, the divergence of the magnetic field is 0 because there are no magnetic monopoles though some people seem to think such may be formed at high energy levels.

Ok, if you're measuring a voltage that is not 0 there are two explanations. One, you have formed an actual galvanic cell. It's a battery - when the voltage went up when you gripped it with your bare hands that only proves it more - that's what was originally called 'animal electricity' back in the 1800s. Two, it's the floating voltage of the DMM. Digital multimeters tend to drift and may record a surprisingly large voltage if the two leads are not connected together by any low impedance connection (for instance touching them together). The semiconductors need a solid voltage to get a definite reading, even if that voltage is 0, so if you just have two wires dangling it may drift all over the place. You won't see this with a classic coil-based multimeter. As to why your new DMM measured a higher voltage with lower current, or lower voltage with higher current, I don't remember which, it's just because the device's internal impedance is different. If one of them had huge input resistance and the other had it not so huge, well, the one with the huge resistance would be able to drift more in voltage. If you try your experiment with a non-magnetized piece of iron, you'll be able to prove to yourself that nothing is going on as a result of the magnetic field. A steady magnetic field does not induce any electromotive force.

Hi Sandor - I did explain in an earlier post that I am a noob so keep the insults to yourself thanks.

I'm not claiming anything. I will see where I can pick up an analogue mmeter. Thanks for the feedback.

Magnethos · « **Reply #147 on:** July 10, 2008, 01:44:13 AM »

Here you can see another free energy technique. They guy is getting 3,75 volts from the air
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y_EotqAn1M

resonanceman · « **Reply #148 on:** July 10, 2008, 03:50:23 AM »

Weeks ago someone here brought up something about magnets and zinc .

It brought up a memory .
I remember reading something about someone using magnets and zinc to create electricity

It had been a while

I looked and didn't find anything

I looked a little more each of the next few days

Finally I stumbled across it again

http://www.rexresearch.com/meyers/meyers.htm

http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/rmeyers/

I am attaching 2 PDFs

One is pretty much the same information as on the URLs above

The other PDF I am adding to make it a little easier to compare with figure 4 in the drawings .
The last PDF is about the Grey tube .
The Grey tube was said to power an 80 HP motor

If you study the Grey tube and Figure 4 I think you will see they are VERY similar
The Miller version uses tubes about half filled with mercury ...... as electricity passed though these tubes some murcury would be ionised making the tube lower resistance
This tube is also a rectifier ......one of the requirements of the Grey tube .........it has to be fed pulsating DC ........NO AC
The construction of the collection grids is very different in the 2 designs .........but I think their function would be similar .
In my opinion the biggest difference is the mercury vapor .......it would allow the Miller version to run on lower voltage .

gary

Jimboot · « **Reply #149 on:** July 10, 2008, 10:06:31 AM »

Quote from: sandor on July 09, 2008, 03:43:56 PM

Ok, if you're measuring a voltage that is not 0 there are two explanations. One, you have formed an actual galvanic cell. It's a battery - when the voltage went up when you gripped it with your bare hands that only proves it more - that's what was originally called 'animal electricity' back in the 1800s. Two, it's the floating voltage of the DMM. Digital multimeters tend to drift and may record a surprisingly large voltage if the two leads are not connected together by any low impedance connection (for instance touching them together). The semiconductors need a solid voltage to get a definite reading, even if that voltage is 0, so if you just have two wires dangling it may drift all over the place. You won't see this with a classic coil-based multimeter. As to why your new DMM measured a higher voltage with lower current, or lower voltage with higher current, I don't remember which, it's just because the device's internal impedance is different. If one of them had huge input resistance and the other had it not so huge, well, the one with the huge resistance would be able to drift more in voltage. If you try your experiment with a non-magnetized piece of iron, you'll be able to prove to yourself that nothing is going on as a result of the magnetic field. A steady magnetic field does not induce any electromotive force.

Btw I don't have two wire just dangling in space! I have one clipped on and another magnetised to the end. When the one in the pic is removed it measures 0 volts. When it is attached the way it is it has measured over 2 volts. I don't "grip' the magnet when measuring. Sheesh I maybe a noob but that doesn't mean I'm a dickhead.

btw your explanation also does not account for a washer, some water, a piece of paper and a mag getting much higher readings than a simple Gal cell made from the same materials (minus the paper) .

I'm just following up on Ones design. Don't shoot the messenger.

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Author Topic: Free Energy Revealed - Magnet Battery (Read 109572 times)

Jimboot

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