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Author Topic: Captret - Capacitor and Electret  (Read 216069 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2010, 09:15:03 PM »
Ferroelectricity is a property of certain materials in which they possess a spontaneous electric polarization that can be reversed by the application of an external electric field.  The internal electric dipoles of a ferroelectric material are coupled to the material lattice so anything that changes the lattice will change the strength of the dipoles (in other words, a change in the spontaneous polarization). The change in the spontaneous polarization results in a change in the surface charge. This can cause current flow in the case of a ferroelectric capacitor even without the presence of an external voltage across the capacitor.

Is the Captret displaying ferroelectricity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroelectric

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2010, 09:15:03 PM »

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2010, 09:46:04 PM »
@ibpointless2,

I did short out the main terminals on a electrolytic capacitor.
I then shorted the wires to the metal can of the cap.

Every time I remove the short the voltage climbs to
approx. 0,05 Volt. I have shorted out the metal can 20
times now but the voltage always climb back.

I get plus at the metal can and minus at the shorted main terminals.

[EDIT] I have seen up to 0,1 Volt if I let the capacitor rest
          for longer time without short circuit.

Groundloop.



I did what groundloop did where he shorted the + and - and then shorted them to the cap top and when releasing it from the cap top to check the voltage my voltage raises 10 millivolts every 7 seconds. If you short it out again it raises 10 millivolts every 7 seconds and does so every time. The voltage climbs back every time using a 22uF 50V capacitor and groundloops too, and believe it will work with all electrolytic capacitors with a metal top.

Its amazing if it can do that only one time but many times is just crazy! where is this energy coming from?  ???

Just like a electret the captret when fully shorted out will gain power back when the short is removed.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2010, 10:21:32 PM »
Just like a electret the captret when fully shorted out will gain power back when the short is removed.

There is a similarity between electrets and the dielectric layer used in capacitors; the difference is that dielectrics in capacitors possess an induced polarization that is only transient, dependent on the potential applied on the dielectric, while dielectrics with electret properties exhibit quasi-permanent charge storage or dipole polarization in addition. Some materials also display ferroelectricity; i.e. they react to the external fields with a hysteresis of the polarization; ferroelectrics can retain the polarization permanently because they are in thermodynamic equilibrium, and are used in ferroelectric capacitors.  Materials displaying ferroelectrics is very similiar to the properties of electrets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electret

I have suggested that a new category should be added to this forum in regards to the electrets, http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9883.0  Electret is to electric field as permanent magnet is to magnetic field.

[Edit:]  @All, Please help me to get electrets added as a category to this forum.  IMO, electrets or materials with a permenant electric field are equally important as permenant magnets in the quest for OU.

GB
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 02:01:16 AM by gravityblock »

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2010, 10:21:32 PM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2010, 02:15:23 AM »
How to make self charging capacitors!

It must be a electrolytic capacitor.

1) Twist the "-" and the "+" leads together.
2) Get a 9 volt battery.
3) Connect one side of the battery to the twisted "-" and "+" pair and one to the top of the capacitor metal exposed area.
4) hold the battery there for a few seconds and remove it.
5) Un-twist the "-" and "+" pair.
6) Connect meter to capacitor to see voltage
7) disconnect meter and short out capacitor and let sit for a few seconds
8) Check capacitor voltage again to see if it is charging

Don't keep meter on capacitor, it could affect results.

Apply a load or a short and it should bounce back and charge.


This is just the Captret but in reverse.

*The lower the farad's the faster it will self-charge. I used 47uF @ 50 volts but any electrolytic capacitor will work.

Offline Kator01

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2010, 02:57:29 AM »
Hi ibpointless2,

try using electrolytic capacitors with different voltage specifications. The higher the voltage-specification the less charge-losses. Use 100 and 400 V Caps. 400 Volt-Caps are used in flashlight-circuits. Take an old camera fromthe dump an remove this small circuit-board

Will there be a difference in the recharge-speed ?

Kator01

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2010, 02:57:29 AM »
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Offline Tito L. Oracion

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2010, 03:09:07 AM »
Hi ibpointless and to all


i have a question?,  is the top metal of the capacitor differ to the one lead of the capacitor? if yes then its a galvanic battery effect wright?  8)

then never the less its a stubblefield  ;D

well, if that so then we can still develop it ok?  ;D

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2010, 03:19:30 AM »
Is it this what you mean?

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2010, 03:19:30 AM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2010, 03:20:40 AM »
Hi ibpointless and to all


i have a question?,  is the top metal of the capacitor differ to the one lead of the capacitor? if yes then its a galvanic battery effect wright?  8)

then never the less its a stubblefield  ;D

well, if that so then we can still develop it ok?  ;D


I'm sure they might be the same metal because a galvanic reaction needs a dielectric such as water and there is no dialectic. And I'm sure its not a stubblefield coil because it too needed a dialectic such as water to work and plus its not a coil, it seems to me to relate more with moray then stubblefield.

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2010, 03:27:28 AM »
Is it this what you mean?

On the self charging capacitor and not the self charging Captret you un twist the - and the + and disconnect from the top after you have charge it with a 9 volt battery and then just use the - and the + and not the captret top part. aka just use it like a normal capacitor.

If you want to use the captret part which is just another capacitor you connect the - to the top or + to the top. to fully understand you must play with it.

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2010, 03:27:28 AM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2010, 03:29:23 AM »
Hi ibpointless2,

try using electrolytic capacitors with different voltage specifications. The higher the voltage-specification the less charge-losses. Use 100 and 400 V Caps. 400 Volt-Caps are used in flashlight-circuits. Take an old camera fromthe dump an remove this small circuit-board

Will there be a difference in the recharge-speed ?

Kator01


I know that the lower the farad on the capacitor the faster recharges.

I working my way to higher voltages so i can use it to power a pulse motor or radiantly recharge a battery. But more testing needs to be done.

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 03:37:30 AM »
Is this correct?

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 03:37:30 AM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2010, 03:52:58 AM »
Is this correct?


Yes that looks correct.

Offline Tito L. Oracion

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2010, 04:23:55 AM »
Thats fascinating!!!

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2010, 08:05:31 AM »
@Groundloop,

Is there a quick circuit you can design and test, so we can see if this effect is useable or not.  You mentioned the captret charges more when you let it rest, so I assume it won't accumulate a charge quick enough in order to keep a LED continously lit.  Even if the LED can flash every few minutes without an external charge would be OU and would be cool.  I have a feeling after so many flashes, it won't light up due to hystersis and will need an external charge.  I hope I am wrong on this.

Thanks,

GB
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 09:52:30 AM by gravityblock »

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2010, 11:10:07 AM »
@gravityblock,

It seems that this effect is much like the memory effect in rechargeable batteries.
If you drain a lead acid battery fully it will still have a small voltage. It will take
a very long time (shorted out) to remove that voltage. I was thinking of making a small
ocillator to boost the voltage to drive one ultra bright LED. But I need at least 1,3 volt
and approx. 1mA to do that. One capacitor will provide 0,1 volt @ some few pico Ampere.
So I will need A LOT of capacitors in series and parallel. Can't promise anything but if I
find a way to do it then I will post it here.

Groundloop.

 

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