Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Captret - Capacitor and Electret  (Read 320426 times)

gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3287
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2010, 09:15:03 PM »
Ferroelectricity is a property of certain materials in which they possess a spontaneous electric polarization that can be reversed by the application of an external electric field.  The internal electric dipoles of a ferroelectric material are coupled to the material lattice so anything that changes the lattice will change the strength of the dipoles (in other words, a change in the spontaneous polarization). The change in the spontaneous polarization results in a change in the surface charge. This can cause current flow in the case of a ferroelectric capacitor even without the presence of an external voltage across the capacitor.

Is the Captret displaying ferroelectricity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroelectric

ibpointless2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2010, 09:46:04 PM »
@ibpointless2,

I did short out the main terminals on a electrolytic capacitor.
I then shorted the wires to the metal can of the cap.

Every time I remove the short the voltage climbs to
approx. 0,05 Volt. I have shorted out the metal can 20
times now but the voltage always climb back.

I get plus at the metal can and minus at the shorted main terminals.

[EDIT] I have seen up to 0,1 Volt if I let the capacitor rest
          for longer time without short circuit.

Groundloop.



I did what groundloop did where he shorted the + and - and then shorted them to the cap top and when releasing it from the cap top to check the voltage my voltage raises 10 millivolts every 7 seconds. If you short it out again it raises 10 millivolts every 7 seconds and does so every time. The voltage climbs back every time using a 22uF 50V capacitor and groundloops too, and believe it will work with all electrolytic capacitors with a metal top.

Its amazing if it can do that only one time but many times is just crazy! where is this energy coming from?  ???

Just like a electret the captret when fully shorted out will gain power back when the short is removed.

gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3287
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2010, 10:21:32 PM »
Just like a electret the captret when fully shorted out will gain power back when the short is removed.

There is a similarity between electrets and the dielectric layer used in capacitors; the difference is that dielectrics in capacitors possess an induced polarization that is only transient, dependent on the potential applied on the dielectric, while dielectrics with electret properties exhibit quasi-permanent charge storage or dipole polarization in addition. Some materials also display ferroelectricity; i.e. they react to the external fields with a hysteresis of the polarization; ferroelectrics can retain the polarization permanently because they are in thermodynamic equilibrium, and are used in ferroelectric capacitors.  Materials displaying ferroelectrics is very similiar to the properties of electrets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electret

I have suggested that a new category should be added to this forum in regards to the electrets, http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9883.0  Electret is to electric field as permanent magnet is to magnetic field.

[Edit:]  @All, Please help me to get electrets added as a category to this forum.  IMO, electrets or materials with a permenant electric field are equally important as permenant magnets in the quest for OU.

GB
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 02:01:16 AM by gravityblock »

ibpointless2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2010, 02:15:23 AM »
How to make self charging capacitors!

It must be a electrolytic capacitor.

1) Twist the "-" and the "+" leads together.
2) Get a 9 volt battery.
3) Connect one side of the battery to the twisted "-" and "+" pair and one to the top of the capacitor metal exposed area.
4) hold the battery there for a few seconds and remove it.
5) Un-twist the "-" and "+" pair.
6) Connect meter to capacitor to see voltage
7) disconnect meter and short out capacitor and let sit for a few seconds
8) Check capacitor voltage again to see if it is charging

Don't keep meter on capacitor, it could affect results.

Apply a load or a short and it should bounce back and charge.


This is just the Captret but in reverse.

*The lower the farad's the faster it will self-charge. I used 47uF @ 50 volts but any electrolytic capacitor will work.

Kator01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 898
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2010, 02:57:29 AM »
Hi ibpointless2,

try using electrolytic capacitors with different voltage specifications. The higher the voltage-specification the less charge-losses. Use 100 and 400 V Caps. 400 Volt-Caps are used in flashlight-circuits. Take an old camera fromthe dump an remove this small circuit-board

Will there be a difference in the recharge-speed ?

Kator01

Tito L. Oracion

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2203
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2010, 03:09:07 AM »
Hi ibpointless and to all


i have a question?,  is the top metal of the capacitor differ to the one lead of the capacitor? if yes then its a galvanic battery effect wright?  8)

then never the less its a stubblefield  ;D

well, if that so then we can still develop it ok?  ;D

nievesoliveras

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1996
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2010, 03:19:30 AM »
Is it this what you mean?

ibpointless2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2010, 03:20:40 AM »
Hi ibpointless and to all


i have a question?,  is the top metal of the capacitor differ to the one lead of the capacitor? if yes then its a galvanic battery effect wright?  8)

then never the less its a stubblefield  ;D

well, if that so then we can still develop it ok?  ;D


I'm sure they might be the same metal because a galvanic reaction needs a dielectric such as water and there is no dialectic. And I'm sure its not a stubblefield coil because it too needed a dialectic such as water to work and plus its not a coil, it seems to me to relate more with moray then stubblefield.

ibpointless2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2010, 03:27:28 AM »
Is it this what you mean?

On the self charging capacitor and not the self charging Captret you un twist the - and the + and disconnect from the top after you have charge it with a 9 volt battery and then just use the - and the + and not the captret top part. aka just use it like a normal capacitor.

If you want to use the captret part which is just another capacitor you connect the - to the top or + to the top. to fully understand you must play with it.

ibpointless2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2010, 03:29:23 AM »
Hi ibpointless2,

try using electrolytic capacitors with different voltage specifications. The higher the voltage-specification the less charge-losses. Use 100 and 400 V Caps. 400 Volt-Caps are used in flashlight-circuits. Take an old camera fromthe dump an remove this small circuit-board

Will there be a difference in the recharge-speed ?

Kator01


I know that the lower the farad on the capacitor the faster recharges.

I working my way to higher voltages so i can use it to power a pulse motor or radiantly recharge a battery. But more testing needs to be done.

nievesoliveras

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1996
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 03:37:30 AM »
Is this correct?

ibpointless2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2010, 03:52:58 AM »
Is this correct?


Yes that looks correct.

Tito L. Oracion

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2203
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2010, 04:23:55 AM »
Thats fascinating!!!

gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3287
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2010, 08:05:31 AM »
@Groundloop,

Is there a quick circuit you can design and test, so we can see if this effect is useable or not.  You mentioned the captret charges more when you let it rest, so I assume it won't accumulate a charge quick enough in order to keep a LED continously lit.  Even if the LED can flash every few minutes without an external charge would be OU and would be cool.  I have a feeling after so many flashes, it won't light up due to hystersis and will need an external charge.  I hope I am wrong on this.

Thanks,

GB
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 09:52:30 AM by gravityblock »

Groundloop

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2010, 11:10:07 AM »
@gravityblock,

It seems that this effect is much like the memory effect in rechargeable batteries.
If you drain a lead acid battery fully it will still have a small voltage. It will take
a very long time (shorted out) to remove that voltage. I was thinking of making a small
ocillator to boost the voltage to drive one ultra bright LED. But I need at least 1,3 volt
and approx. 1mA to do that. One capacitor will provide 0,1 volt @ some few pico Ampere.
So I will need A LOT of capacitors in series and parallel. Can't promise anything but if I
find a way to do it then I will post it here.

Groundloop.