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Solid States Devices => Captret effect => Topic started by: ibpointless2 on October 20, 2010, 12:49:51 AM

Title: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 20, 2010, 12:49:51 AM
I believe that our regular electronics will not achieve over unity easily due to they are based on the idea that you can’t get over 100 percent efficiency. That is why I took it upon myself to study electronic parts differently, not like how we see them if you were to open an electronics book. This has led me to many discoveries such as with electrolytic capacitors. Many of us know a capacitor to have two leads, one positive the other negative, but I say in over unity electronics the capacitor has three leads, one positive one negative, and other is called “o” because I could not find a better name for it. Yes I said three leads and might be wondering where that other lead is? It’s been there all this time and yet no one has paid it any attention. The other lead is the top of the capacitor.
The top of the capacitor hooked to the negative lead will produce a potential difference, but what makes it noteworthy is the fact that connection won’t affect the storage in the capacitor. So naturally the capacitor can do more work than once thought, it can hold more power. So long as you have done the work to put the power in form the normal leads the top to negative will give you power, but like all capacitor the main storage will go down over time. But for the time when you load the top and negative down and remove the load it bounces back just like an electret would and allows you to do even more work. So I call it a “Captret”, capacitor – electret.
Don’t let other components fool you too, a LED can be used as a solar panel and so can some didoes too. We must change our thought process to accommodate over unity if we ever want to achieve it.


I have made a youtube video of it here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs7B1vhS0Vk

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 20, 2010, 03:02:17 PM
For anyone reading this and don't fully understand what is going on it's really simple.

You charge the capacitor like normal and just like a battery it will hold that charge until a load is applied.

But instead of applying the load on the leads you place one on the top of the capacitor and the other on one of the leads. This can supply a load without affecting the charge that is in the capacitor.

So you charge the capacitor up to 100 percent then put a load on the capacitor top and on one of the leads you can perform work off that without affecting the 100 percent that is in the capacitor, so thus you can do more than a 100 percent of work.

But just like a battery a capacitor will loose it charge over time, but for most of the time you'll still will get greater than 100 percent.

But don't let that stop you. For when you charge a capacitor and then completely short it out it will give a memory effect that will recharge the capacitor and thus allows you to do more work off the top and one of the leads. 

And what i'm trying to get to people is that our current electronics like capacitors, diodes, LED's, etc. will make it hard to achieve overunity because they're based on a closed system that believes that overunity is impossible, so we must rethink our current electronics to be more overunity.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on October 21, 2010, 06:52:03 AM
it's good buddy  ;)

continue to explore  :)



Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 21, 2010, 01:42:48 PM
it's good buddy  ;)

continue to explore  :)

Thank you for the words of encouragement.

In the attachment I have included a diagram of what the Captret looks like and that I call the top connection “o” because “+” and “-“ were already taken.

I have learn many thing so far, like theirs enough power in the o and the + to flash a red LED. I also learn something very important too, when you connect the o and the - together it will charge captret up after a load such as the LED without effecting the standing voltage thats in the capacitor itself.

Best way that I can come up with to explain what is happen is that the one capacitor has become two but when it comes to recharging there seems to be that it doesn’t destroy the dipole or something when it recharges the Captret. And for super caps the second cap acts more like a capacitor then a super cap.

Does anyone know of a circuit that allow me to charge up the captret but when it gets to around 2 volts short it out to the + to make an LED flash? And have this continue to flash so I can see how long the Captret will go for. If not i’m going to start working with higher voltage so that when the captret gets to around 120 volts it would flash a neon and i’ll dump that charge into a battery so that I will be radiantly charged. Or see if I can get a pulsed motor to work off the pulses?


Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 22, 2010, 12:01:43 PM
I made a video of it blinking a LED to show that there is some useable energy in it and I show how it self recharges without affecting the storage inside the capacitor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbrVHWJwpc



It will only blink at around 2 volts, I wonder if I use a zener diode to let it build up on the charge cycle and when it gets to 2 volts the zener diode allows it to flow to light up the LED? anyone ever tried this?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 22, 2010, 05:10:55 PM
It seems that each time you recharge the captret it gets a higher voltage value.

Jesus
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 22, 2010, 05:28:14 PM
It seems that each time you recharge the captret it gets a higher voltage value.

Jesus

Yes recharging anything gives you a higher voltage value, and letting the captret sit for some hours its voltage will raise above the voltage thats in the capacitor too. The captret is recharging itself when you connect the “o” with the “-“ and remove the connection and it will read a higher voltage due to recharging and thus you can used that recharge to power a load such as an LED, and if you let that sit for hours again just like a electret it will recharge it self but this time to a higher level then whats in the capacitor. Crazy  :o

With it getting a higher voltage value every time I recharge without affecting the main power in the capacitor itself; I think I may stubbled across overunity. Because you have the voltage of cap being charge to 100% and then the captret being able to perform a load over 1% without affecting the 100%, when you add it up I have over 100% power being produced. It kind of like a perpetual charge in the captret, but you need to supply the power to the capacitor first to get it and so long as the capacitor holds it charge (which most do for a long time) you will have a perpetual motion of charge that can perform work such as lighting an LED.  ;D
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: penno64 on October 22, 2010, 09:01:39 PM
Hi IB,

Great work - I had a bit of a play and it does exactly what you say.

Please be careful that the DMM is not providing the charge to your cap.

To prove this, try your experiment without using the meter and see if it continues to light the led.

Kind Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 23, 2010, 12:25:39 AM
Hi IB,

Great work - I had a bit of a play and it does exactly what you say.

Please be careful that the DMM is not providing the charge to your cap.

To prove this, try your experiment without using the meter and see if it continues to light the led.

Kind Regards, Penno


Thanks,

I’ve tried it without the meter and the LED still lights up. All I need now is a circuit that allows the charging to build up to 2 volts then pass it through the LED to blink it and have the process continue and see how long it really does last.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 24, 2010, 10:00:34 AM
Could the capacitor interacting with environement like ZPE or Aether ?
This is very intriguing phenomena, if you don't discharge the +- side when flash the LED with O and +, maybe a method to tap in the environement energy... Good job !!!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 24, 2010, 02:24:20 PM
Could the capacitor interacting with environement like ZPE or Aether ?
This is very intriguing phenomena, if you don't discharge the +- side when flash the LED with O and +, maybe a method to tap in the environement energy... Good job !!!

I wonder too if it was tapping the energy from the vacuum. But seems odd that something so simple could tap into the ZPE? From what i’m seeing is that it seems it doesn’t destroy the dipole when using the captret, its like the energy gets used and put back. What makes me wonder is that after you flash a led you don’t need to connect it to the charge of the capacitor because it will slowly recharge itself which makes me think it could be tapping into the ZPE around it from energy that was created when charging the capacitor, their’s like a pool of energy that is created around it that maybe opening the gates of ZPE?  ;D
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Poit on October 24, 2010, 02:34:26 PM
This is fascinating stuff..... someone needs to conduct a control test.

i.e
1: Charge up cap A at 100% ... then discharging the cap through a led with traditional methods - using the positive and negative legs of the cap (much the same frequency as done in the captret way, i.e flash the led periodically) 

2: Now charge cap B at 100%, now "discharge" the cap through the captret method.

The point to this test is determining whether or not the effect is an illusion or over unity?

Maybe after 5 hours of run time, measure the voltage in both A and B caps.

can anyone else propose a better test? I am keen to do what I have suggested my self... just need to find my super caps (there in my stuff somewhere lol)
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 24, 2010, 02:46:14 PM
This is fascinating stuff..... someone needs to conduct a control test.

i.e
1: Charge up cap A at 100% ... then discharging the cap through a led with traditional methods - using the positive and negative legs of the cap (much the same frequency as done in the captret way, i.e flash the led periodically) 

2: Now charge cap B at 100%, now "discharge" the cap through the captret method.

The point to this test is determining whether or not the effect is an illusion or over unity?

Maybe after 5 hours of run time, measure the voltage in both A and B caps.

can anyone else propose a better test? I am keen to do what I have suggested my self... just need to find my super caps (there in my stuff somewhere lol)



I thought of doing something like that but have both captret and capacitor going at the same time to see who goes the longest. My idea was to have the captret flash and when it did the light of a LED right next to the captret led will get power and send that to transistor and have the capacitor flash so they both flash at the same time.

Right now my biggest problem is making circuit for the captret. because…

System A is the simple recharge method. Load the captret and then let it sit, just like a electret it will gain some of it charge back and SOMETIMES GAIN A HIGER VOLTAGE THEN WHATS IN THE CAPACITOR!

System B will require a circuit that knows when it has charge above 2 volts or even 3 volts when its charge mode of “o” to “-“. And here is the biggest problem!!!!! you need it when it reaches 3 volts to cut off the “o” to “-“ because if you don’t it will pull power out of the capacitor and not the captret making a all results void. So until it gets to 3 volts the “o” and “-“ need to be connected and when it does get to 3 volts the “o” and the “-“ need to be disconnected and the “o” and the “+” need to be connected to perform load.


And if you don’t feel doing all that and want a quick answer just charge up a capacitor and short it out, then connect the “+” to the top of the capacitor to see what voltages you get from a “drained” capacitor.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 24, 2010, 05:36:44 PM
These captrets are very interesting things! I've been doing more experimenting with them but this time i'm am just shocked at what I found.

I used all my super caps for other experiments so I took a normal capacitor and charged it up with a 9 volt battery. Then I took a green alligator clip and shorted out the capacitor, and normal electronics would tell us that there is no more power left. I kept it shorted out and hook my negative of my meter to the positive of the capacitor and the positive of the meter to the top of the capacitor and it read milli-volts! Of course the meter would act like a load and drain it of its power.

Now for the crazy part! I left it sitting shorted out on the positive and negative of the capacitor and removed my meter so that no power from my meter would get in and let it sit for a few seconds. I hook it all back up and it gain in voltage!!!!!! I repeated it and still it gains in voltage!

of course I made a Youtube video of it here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4fGpEDaQGc


So where is this energy coming from? why does a capacitor that is shorted out still supply power? It could be tapping the ZPE field? But it reminds me of a electret because it can self charge. I'll take any suggestions that you guys have on what this thing is.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on October 24, 2010, 08:10:54 PM
@ibpointless2,

I did short out the main terminals on a electrolytic capacitor.
I then shorted the wires to the metal can of the cap.

Every time I remove the short the voltage climbs to
approx. 0,05 Volt. I have shorted out the metal can 20
times now but the voltage always climb back.

I get plus at the metal can and minus at the shorted main terminals.

[EDIT] I have seen up to 0,1 Volt if I let the capacitor rest
          for longer time without short circuit.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on October 24, 2010, 09:15:03 PM
Ferroelectricity is a property of certain materials in which they possess a spontaneous electric polarization that can be reversed by the application of an external electric field.  The internal electric dipoles of a ferroelectric material are coupled to the material lattice so anything that changes the lattice will change the strength of the dipoles (in other words, a change in the spontaneous polarization). The change in the spontaneous polarization results in a change in the surface charge. This can cause current flow in the case of a ferroelectric capacitor even without the presence of an external voltage across the capacitor.

Is the Captret displaying ferroelectricity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroelectric
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 24, 2010, 09:46:04 PM
@ibpointless2,

I did short out the main terminals on a electrolytic capacitor.
I then shorted the wires to the metal can of the cap.

Every time I remove the short the voltage climbs to
approx. 0,05 Volt. I have shorted out the metal can 20
times now but the voltage always climb back.

I get plus at the metal can and minus at the shorted main terminals.

[EDIT] I have seen up to 0,1 Volt if I let the capacitor rest
          for longer time without short circuit.

Groundloop.



I did what groundloop did where he shorted the + and - and then shorted them to the cap top and when releasing it from the cap top to check the voltage my voltage raises 10 millivolts every 7 seconds. If you short it out again it raises 10 millivolts every 7 seconds and does so every time. The voltage climbs back every time using a 22uF 50V capacitor and groundloops too, and believe it will work with all electrolytic capacitors with a metal top.

Its amazing if it can do that only one time but many times is just crazy! where is this energy coming from?  ???

Just like a electret the captret when fully shorted out will gain power back when the short is removed.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on October 24, 2010, 10:21:32 PM
Just like a electret the captret when fully shorted out will gain power back when the short is removed.

There is a similarity between electrets and the dielectric layer used in capacitors; the difference is that dielectrics in capacitors possess an induced polarization that is only transient, dependent on the potential applied on the dielectric, while dielectrics with electret properties exhibit quasi-permanent charge storage or dipole polarization in addition. Some materials also display ferroelectricity; i.e. they react to the external fields with a hysteresis of the polarization; ferroelectrics can retain the polarization permanently because they are in thermodynamic equilibrium, and are used in ferroelectric capacitors.  Materials displaying ferroelectrics is very similiar to the properties of electrets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electret

I have suggested that a new category should be added to this forum in regards to the electrets, http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9883.0  Electret is to electric field as permanent magnet is to magnetic field.

[Edit:]  @All, Please help me to get electrets added as a category to this forum.  IMO, electrets or materials with a permenant electric field are equally important as permenant magnets in the quest for OU.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 25, 2010, 02:15:23 AM
How to make self charging capacitors!

It must be a electrolytic capacitor.

1) Twist the "-" and the "+" leads together.
2) Get a 9 volt battery.
3) Connect one side of the battery to the twisted "-" and "+" pair and one to the top of the capacitor metal exposed area.
4) hold the battery there for a few seconds and remove it.
5) Un-twist the "-" and "+" pair.
6) Connect meter to capacitor to see voltage
7) disconnect meter and short out capacitor and let sit for a few seconds
8) Check capacitor voltage again to see if it is charging

Don't keep meter on capacitor, it could affect results.

Apply a load or a short and it should bounce back and charge.


This is just the Captret but in reverse.

*The lower the farad's the faster it will self-charge. I used 47uF @ 50 volts but any electrolytic capacitor will work.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on October 25, 2010, 02:57:29 AM
Hi ibpointless2,

try using electrolytic capacitors with different voltage specifications. The higher the voltage-specification the less charge-losses. Use 100 and 400 V Caps. 400 Volt-Caps are used in flashlight-circuits. Take an old camera fromthe dump an remove this small circuit-board

Will there be a difference in the recharge-speed ?

Kator01
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on October 25, 2010, 03:09:07 AM
Hi ibpointless and to all


i have a question?,  is the top metal of the capacitor differ to the one lead of the capacitor? if yes then its a galvanic battery effect wright?  8)

then never the less its a stubblefield  ;D

well, if that so then we can still develop it ok?  ;D
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 25, 2010, 03:19:30 AM
Is it this what you mean?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 25, 2010, 03:20:40 AM
Hi ibpointless and to all


i have a question?,  is the top metal of the capacitor differ to the one lead of the capacitor? if yes then its a galvanic battery effect wright?  8)

then never the less its a stubblefield  ;D

well, if that so then we can still develop it ok?  ;D


I'm sure they might be the same metal because a galvanic reaction needs a dielectric such as water and there is no dialectic. And I'm sure its not a stubblefield coil because it too needed a dialectic such as water to work and plus its not a coil, it seems to me to relate more with moray then stubblefield.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 25, 2010, 03:27:28 AM
Is it this what you mean?

On the self charging capacitor and not the self charging Captret you un twist the - and the + and disconnect from the top after you have charge it with a 9 volt battery and then just use the - and the + and not the captret top part. aka just use it like a normal capacitor.

If you want to use the captret part which is just another capacitor you connect the - to the top or + to the top. to fully understand you must play with it.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 25, 2010, 03:29:23 AM
Hi ibpointless2,

try using electrolytic capacitors with different voltage specifications. The higher the voltage-specification the less charge-losses. Use 100 and 400 V Caps. 400 Volt-Caps are used in flashlight-circuits. Take an old camera fromthe dump an remove this small circuit-board

Will there be a difference in the recharge-speed ?

Kator01


I know that the lower the farad on the capacitor the faster recharges.

I working my way to higher voltages so i can use it to power a pulse motor or radiantly recharge a battery. But more testing needs to be done.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 25, 2010, 03:37:30 AM
Is this correct?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 25, 2010, 03:52:58 AM
Is this correct?


Yes that looks correct.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on October 25, 2010, 04:23:55 AM
Thats fascinating!!!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on October 25, 2010, 08:05:31 AM
@Groundloop,

Is there a quick circuit you can design and test, so we can see if this effect is useable or not.  You mentioned the captret charges more when you let it rest, so I assume it won't accumulate a charge quick enough in order to keep a LED continously lit.  Even if the LED can flash every few minutes without an external charge would be OU and would be cool.  I have a feeling after so many flashes, it won't light up due to hystersis and will need an external charge.  I hope I am wrong on this.

Thanks,

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on October 25, 2010, 11:10:07 AM
@gravityblock,

It seems that this effect is much like the memory effect in rechargeable batteries.
If you drain a lead acid battery fully it will still have a small voltage. It will take
a very long time (shorted out) to remove that voltage. I was thinking of making a small
ocillator to boost the voltage to drive one ultra bright LED. But I need at least 1,3 volt
and approx. 1mA to do that. One capacitor will provide 0,1 volt @ some few pico Ampere.
So I will need A LOT of capacitors in series and parallel. Can't promise anything but if I
find a way to do it then I will post it here.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 25, 2010, 12:24:24 PM
@gravityblock,

It seems that this effect is much like the memory effect in rechargeable batteries.
If you drain a lead acid battery fully it will still have a small voltage. It will take
a very long time (shorted out) to remove that voltage. I was thinking of making a small
ocillator to boost the voltage to drive one ultra bright LED. But I need at least 1,3 volt
and approx. 1mA to do that. One capacitor will provide 0,1 volt @ some few pico Ampere.
So I will need A LOT of capacitors in series and parallel. Can't promise anything but if I
find a way to do it then I will post it here.

Groundloop.


There's more than just a few pico farads in it because it was able to light up a red 2.8 volt @28mA LED. It would light up at 1.5 volts and then flash so there is some usable energy in it.

If you want a test to see if it will last you can't use these small voltages. You'll need bigger capacitors with higher voltages. You need to be around 120 volts or more so that you can use a neon as a trigger to light up and short out the load.

Just be careful when doing the test if you use the captret that charges on one lead then disconnects on the other to supply a load. Wrong timing will drain the main power of the capacitor. So you need to find a way that allows you to charge from - to the top and then shuts that completely off with no leakage current then goes to + to the top so you can supply a load and have that completely off with no leakage current. That's going be hard because our modern day electronics allow for such leakage to happen and this is also why our electronics are not as efficient as they should be.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on October 25, 2010, 12:43:17 PM
@ibpointless2,

Connect a 1 Mega Ohm resistor. Look at the voltage. When the voltage
is stable, use Ohms law to calculate the countinous current your capacitor
can deliver. I'm not talking about the short time discharge current.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 25, 2010, 03:15:23 PM
@ibpointless2,

Connect a 1 Mega Ohm resistor. Look at the voltage. When the voltage
is stable, use Ohms law to calculate the countinous current your capacitor
can deliver. I'm not talking about the short time discharge current.

Groundloop.

But i'm talking about short time discharge current because its a capacitor and thats what it does. I have not attend it to be a battery but instead a radiant energy spike that can be used to charge a battery. And There is got to be more than a few pico farads of storage because it can do real work even though it is just a short flash from a LED. What is important is that it can do many short flashes and then recharge it self. Please don't take offence but you can't expect a century old laws to give you the conventional answer when i'm doing some thats unconventional. If we don't allow new ideas and new ways of thinking then we will never reach overunity because we will be stuck in the past.  I seen what i seen and have video proof of it too, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbrVHWJwpc.

The short sharp time pulses are what is key, unlike want current electronic books would tell you. The Captret is not what i'm giving to the people, i'm teaching them how to rethink what they were taught and look at things differently so that they are not consumed by sheepherders.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Bobik on October 25, 2010, 03:45:58 PM
Something to think about, AFAIK:

Capacitor cannot change it's voltage in an instant.
Inductor cannot change it's current in an instant.

And if you want a simple way to get energy out when reaching certain voltage you could use Zener diode. There are models with breakdown voltage around 2 Volts.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on October 25, 2010, 07:53:14 PM
If we don't allow new ideas and new ways of thinking then we will never reach overunity because we will be stuck in the past.  I seen what i seen and have video proof of it too, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbrVHWJwpc.

The short sharp time pulses are what is key, unlike want current electronic books would tell you. The Captret is not what i'm giving to the people, i'm teaching them how to rethink what they were taught and look at things differently so that they are not consumed by sheepherders.

It is well known that capacitors have the ability to self-charge, so this isn't anything new you are showing us.  Here's an excellent publication on capacitor anamolies, http://www.distinti.com/docs/cap_anom.pdf

Being stuck in the past may not be such a bad thing, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8  Maybe you need rethink what you have been taught and look at things differently so that you are not consumed by sheepherders, because there are two guys lighting a LED between their fingers in the above video along with other unconventional things by using ancient techniques.  I have seen what I have seen, and I have video proof of it also.  Could it be that the LED lit up due to the difference in the perspiration released by each person's fingers?  A chemical reaction similar to a battery?  We must first correctly understand what we are observing, before we can make it useable.
 
GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 25, 2010, 11:05:50 PM
It is well known that capacitors have the ability to self-charge, so this isn't anything new you are showing us.  Here's an excellent publication on capacitor anamolies, http://www.distinti.com/docs/cap_anom.pdf

Being stuck in the past may not be such a bad thing, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8  Maybe you need rethink what you have been taught and look at things differently so that you are not consumed by sheepherders, because there are two guys lighting a LED between their fingers in the above video along with other unconventional things by using ancient techniques.  I have seen what I have seen, and I have video proof of it also.  Could it be that the LED lit up due to the difference in the perspiration released by each person's fingers?  A chemical reaction similar to a battery?  We must first correctly understand what we are observing, before we can make it useable.
 
GB


Well, well, well. I have meet someone with some since on the web  ;D. Howdy. You see things differently then me, this can be a good thing. I do think differently, its a different kind of different than yours. You have your way and i'll have my way and how about we meet in the middle?

Its a pleasure to meet you.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on October 26, 2010, 12:14:52 AM

Well, well, well. I have meet someone with some since on the web  ;D. Howdy. You see things differently then me, this can be a good thing. I do think differently, its a different kind of different than yours. You have your way and i'll have my way and how about we meet in the middle?

Its a pleasure to meet you.

Two likes in unlike conditions, similar to water and steam. Show me where the center or middle point is on an infinite line or circle, then we can meet there. I'm sure I could find a different middle point than the middle point you found.  It's a pleasure to meet you also.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 27, 2010, 12:44:14 AM
Captret PROOF OF OVERUNITY

I'm uploading a youtube video of the captret that shows it doing double the work!

Concept is:you charge a capacitor like normal and then connect it to a led and then it just flashes and thats it.

The proof of overunity i show that i charge the capacitor ONCE and then connect it to the captret part and it lights up the LED very bright, and then i connect it to the negative of the capacitor and it too lights up very bright! I got TWO flashes for the price of ONE!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on October 27, 2010, 01:06:19 AM
Video of Captret Overunity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBPCUdGA-AI


Charge it once and get double the return!

Pay close attention to when i flash the captret part, the LED seems to glow brighter and longer!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: bxngoc on October 27, 2010, 04:24:34 AM
Can you measure resistance between negative lead and 'o' lead of capacitor?
Can you measure capacitance of positive lead and 'o' lead and compare with capacitance of positive lead and negative lead?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 01, 2010, 12:47:41 PM
Somebody is using the capacitor recharge with a capacitor bank here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDtgghR0oWw&NR=1
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 05, 2010, 02:40:54 PM
does anyone know how long a 9 volt battery will run a 28 mA led load?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 06, 2010, 10:41:09 PM
So far i've had made the captret do some useful work, i got it to light a LED continuously. Its a really simple LED driver circuit that go against what the textbooks say how to use a capacitor but it works! I've had one version that has been lighting a red LED for a week now non stop running off a "dead" 9 volt battery.

Now heres my problem. I have two version, both are the same in every way except one has a "dead" 9 volt battery and the other has a new out the package battery. The one that has the dead 9 volt battery is the one thats acting funny, instead of the voltage going down overtime like a normal load it goes up. And yes before i begun the test i let the 9 volt sit for a day untouched, but its been running for a week and the voltage seems to go up everyday! Now the new battery goes down, like it should, but its got me wonder if there is a sweet spot it gets to where it won't consume battery power anymore? Oh and one important note is that the LED will get dimmer over time, BUT will not go completely out when you use a RED LED, and i think it hits that sweet spot where it won't go dim anymore and then it won't consume anymore power?

But i don't know? Try the circuit yourself, its really simple to make.

The capacitor use are 1uF @ 50 volts. Just remove the outer plastic case to show the metal case and that is your "o" that you connect the 9 volts negative cable to. See how long your Captret LED driver will run for?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on November 07, 2010, 01:28:45 AM
Hi Steven,

I would suggest you use a 10 000 MykoF Elko instead of the battery. With such an elko you have a definite amount of energy stored up which you can calculate for a given voltage-level.

Second : is this setup ment to run continously or  do you break connections periodically ( alternating) ?

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 07, 2010, 04:01:06 AM
Hi Steven,

I would suggest you use a 10 000 MykoF Elko instead of the battery. With such an elko you have a definite amount of energy stored up which you can calculate for a given voltage-level.

Second : is this setup ment to run continously or  do you break connections periodically ( alternating) ?

Regards



Kator01


I can't find by what you mean by "10 000 MykoF Elko", i did a google search and found nothing?

The connection is setup to run non-stop, direct current, never disconnecting to see how long it will run. The one that is running the dead battery has been running for about a week now and for some odd reason the voltage goes up as if a heavy load was put on it and you take that load off it and the battery bounces back, but the problem is that the battery has never been disconnected and its been doing this for about a week now. The voltage gain is really nothing to jump up and down about, yesterday it was at 8.04 volts and today its was at 8.05. I'm sure i'm not breaking any laws here because the battery started out at 8.22 volts from resting 24 hours and when i connected everything up the battery went down to 7.70 volts and ever since then it has been going up as if the LED is not even a load on it. It does seem though that recharging is not as fast as it use to be but it still happens. Once it gets over 8.22 volts then i'll be excited, but it still is amazing that the LED load is working in reverse.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on November 07, 2010, 12:52:27 PM
Hello ibpointless,

See here for electrolytic caps > 10 00 myF :
http://www.lowesr.com/catalog.asp#RADALUM (http://www.lowesr.com/catalog.asp#RADALUM)


In addition you must take into consideration that in order to load a capacitor to need to feed in  double the energy of what is stored in the end of the charge-process if you use a normal loading-process

For the facts please read this here, especially the paragraph “The energy losses in the ESR”:
http://www.olino.org/us/articles/2006/11/22/charge-efficiency-capacitor (http://www.olino.org/us/articles/2006/11/22/charge-efficiency-capacitor)

The energy-losses do not depend on the value of inner resistance but on the method of charging
the capacitor.

Please pay special attention to post #13 ,  last post from member “sig”

There are a set of scientific papers relating this facts but I will spare my time to post it here because I found that many here will continue into believing in their concept despite the disillusioning facts.

Hope this makes the issue a bit more realistic.

Regards

Kator01

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 07, 2010, 01:58:13 PM
Hello ibpointless,

See here for electrolytic caps > 10 00 myF :
http://www.lowesr.com/catalog.asp#RADALUM (http://www.lowesr.com/catalog.asp#RADALUM)


In addition you must take into consideration that in order to load a capacitor to need to feed in  double the energy of what is stored in the end of the charge-process if you use a normal loading-process

For the facts please read this here, especially the paragraph “The energy losses in the ESR”:
http://www.olino.org/us/articles/2006/11/22/charge-efficiency-capacitor (http://www.olino.org/us/articles/2006/11/22/charge-efficiency-capacitor)

The energy-losses do not depend on the value of inner resistance but on the method of charging
the capacitor.

Please pay special attention to post #13 ,  last post from member “sig”

There are a set of scientific papers relating this facts but I will spare my time to post it here because I found that many here will continue into believing in their concept despite the disillusioning facts.

Hope this makes the issue a bit more realistic.

Regards

Kator01


I'm not using the normal loading process, i'm doing something not even the textbooks mention. My capacitors are not capacitors anymore they're captrets now. I can't find these scientific papers nor can i find sig's post, could you please post a direct link to it?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on November 07, 2010, 03:15:58 PM
Hello ibpointelss2,

the second link I posted, go down the page to the last post. I do not know why these links do not work for you.

I told you that I will not post the scientific papers bescause it is not necessary afte you have read this info, here it is agian:

http://www.olino.org/us/articles/2006/11/22/charge-efficiency-capacitor (http://www.olino.org/us/articles/2006/11/22/charge-efficiency-capacitor)

Kator01
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on November 07, 2010, 03:35:02 PM

I'm not using the normal loading process, i'm doing something not even the textbooks mention. My capacitors are not capacitors anymore they're captrets now. I can't find these scientific papers nor can i find sig's post, could you please post a direct link to it?

Whatever method really is used, mainly depends on wheter the casing is galvanicly coupled with the negative terminal.

Please deplete the cap and measure the resistance between casing and the negative terminal. Use the Meg-Ohm-rage of you Mulitmeter in order to watch the loading-prozess done by the battery of your digi-meter.
If the Ohmic value slowly increases and finaly ends up "infinite" then you have to find out next what the value in mykoFarad is between casing and the neg. terminal in order to calculate teh addition energy stored.
LED´s are not suited for power-measurement. They are non-linear elements and foto-sensitive which means that light from the enviroment creates a voltage across the n-p-transition-area, loading your cap back)  Take a 1 Kohm-Resistor or higher as a load and monitor the voltage-drop over the time and above all put the whole setup in a  black cardbox so there is no light entering the inner of the box.
Another test would be to deliberately let a bright cold light shine on the LED that you will understand what I am talking about.

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 07, 2010, 03:35:50 PM
Part of the inside info of the link.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 07, 2010, 06:23:12 PM
So i have two circuits going on. Both are running the same type of red LED and both are using the same type of capacitor turned into a captret. When both batteries are connected to their circuits the battery voltage on both will drop. Now this is where they start to act different. The Charged "new" battery will keep going down over time, not very fast but it will go down. The "dead" battery will go up  ???  Don't know but it does. One would expect that both batteries to drop when connected to the circuit and they do, but one would not expect the dead battery one to go up while still under the LED load. Even when the LED is left in the darkness or switch the LED out with a resistor or a electric motor and the same effect will happen. So makes these dead batteries that much better? will my charged new battery drain enough and become dead to where they will start to charge back up?

Why do the LED's even run? I've have them running on voltage above 20V and they don't burn out like you would expect.

When a capacitor is in series with a battery it will get full and make a open circuit, but the captret never shuts off.

So far all i know is that i got a LED light that will run off a "dead" 9 volt battery and keep running for infinite amount of time.


For even more explanation on the captret vs capacitor here is a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6U7Lg95-2s
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: broli on November 07, 2010, 09:47:15 PM
So i have two circuits going on. Both are running the same type of red LED and both are using the same type of capacitor turned into a captret. When both batteries are connected to their circuits the battery voltage on both will drop. Now this is where they start to act different. The Charged "new" battery will keep going down over time, not very fast but it will go down. The "dead" battery will go up  ???  Don't know but it does. One would expect that both batteries to drop when connected to the circuit and they do, but one would not expect the dead battery one to go up while still under the LED load. Even when the LED is left in the darkness or switch the LED out with a resistor or a electric motor and the same effect will happen. So makes these dead batteries that much better? will my charged new battery drain enough and become dead to where they will start to charge back up?

Why do the LED's even run? I've have them running on voltage above 20V and they don't burn out like you would expect.

When a capacitor is in series with a battery it will get full and make a open circuit, but the captret never shuts off.

So far all i know is that i got a LED light that will run off a "dead" 9 volt battery and keep running for infinite amount of time.


For even more explanation on the captret vs capacitor here is a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6U7Lg95-2s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6U7Lg95-2s)

Can you draw a circuit of this, it's a bit hard to see where the wires are going, thanks.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 07, 2010, 10:38:27 PM
Picture of captret led driver circuit.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: broli on November 07, 2010, 11:39:48 PM
Picture of captret led driver circuit.

Thanks, I managed to replicate it and it's quite interesting. Actually you don't need to use both main legs of the cap, it also works like seen below.

There's obviously no short between the top cap and legs so that's ruled out. However my friend suggested it could be picking up radio waves. I want to rule this out by putting it in a faraday cage tomorrow.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 07, 2010, 11:48:14 PM
I tried a capacitor with a dead 9v battery and a led. It has not worked yet. I will let it connected a few days and see if the battery gains a charge.

The capacitor is a 2200uf 16v I took from an old motherboard. the battery had 2v when I connected it to the circuit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: broli on November 07, 2010, 11:58:38 PM
@nievesoliveras: ignore that drawing fully the original.

Also polarity matters, and a larger capacitance increases the brightness, went from 47µF to 3300µF.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 08, 2010, 12:04:45 AM
Thanks, I managed to replicate it and it's quite interesting. Actually you don't need to use both main legs of the cap, it also works like seen below.

There's obviously no short between the top cap and legs so that's ruled out. However my friend suggested it could be picking up radio waves. I want to rule this out by putting it in a faraday cage tomorrow.


I knew you could do that, i found out by accident when switching capacitors. I find it doesn't work exactly the same when you do it your way, it like the capacitor is not even there.  ???
hmm you got it working from the top to the -, i usually go from top  to the +.
 :)

I don't think its picking up radio waves.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 08, 2010, 12:15:01 AM
I tried a capacitor with a dead 9v battery and a led. It has not worked yet. I will let it connected a few days and see if the battery gains a charge.

The capacitor is a 2200uf 16v I took from an old motherboard. the battery had 2v when I connected it to the circuit.

Jesus

Your dead 9 volt battery is too low! it needs to be a "fresh" dead 9 volt that has at least 7 volts and up. For best results you should use a series of dead 9 volts that equal around 20 volts. The captret loves voltage. You might also want to try a lower farad capacitor too, i used a 1uf @ 400 volt capacitor for mine.

********************************
I also make note for those who are having trouble replicating the circuit.

Your capacitor must be pre-charged first, and by that i mean the - and the + of the capacitor must be charge from the battery your going to use or a battery with the same voltage before connect everything up. Just a quick tap of the leads of the capacitor to the connection of the battery will do. Basically what you need is a capacitor that has been used before or at least charge up a new capacitor before connecting it all.
********************************


But yeah your voltage is too low. You can use AA's if you want but the voltage of the batteries in series must be higher than 7 volts, 20 volts is preferred.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 08, 2010, 12:20:27 AM
Thank you for the tips @bpointless2!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: broli on November 08, 2010, 12:29:59 AM

Your capacitor must be pre-charged first, and by that i mean the - and the + of the capacitor must be charge from the battery your going to use or a battery with the same voltage before connect everything up. Just a quick tap of the leads of the capacitor to the connection of the battery will do. Basically what you need is a capacitor that has been used before or at least charge up a new capacitor before connecting it all.


This isn't the case with mine. In fact I just noticed it works equally well if you short the 2 legs together. Btw I'm using a new 23A 12volt battery.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 08, 2010, 12:41:10 AM
This isn't the case with mine. In fact I just noticed it works equally well if you short the 2 legs together. Btw I'm using a new 23A 12volt battery.

The pre-charge goes for people who just bought the capacitor, sometimes they don't have any or enough voltage in them so you must "jump start" them.

Yes you can short out the 2 legs to make one lead and it will work fine. I also like to point out to others who don't fully understand why this is important. Normally when you have a LED in series with a capacitor it get dim fast because the capacitor is filling up and once full the LED shuts off. With the captret the LED will continue to glow and give unique results.

There is multiple ways to hook the captret up, i've even made some that ran like what my diagram says and at the - to the top lead i put a diode in series with a AA and it would charge the AA while running the LED.

Just be careful when using 12 volt battery. I used a 12 volt once and some wire accidently touched and blue smoke formed from what use to be the wire. Just remember, voltage matters not amps.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on November 08, 2010, 01:04:13 AM
Hello,

@broli : it is not picking up radio-waves, if what ippointelss2 said is true about operation at 20 V then it may oscillating itself , a rc-oscillation. I would no be surprised if it oscillates like a joule-thieve

Does anyone who has made it work have a scope ?

Regards

Kator01

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 08, 2010, 02:44:38 AM
Truly amazing!

The captret might be AC by nature!
top of cap to + = 37.6 VAC
top of cap to - = 33.7 VAC
Across LED = 3.2 VAC

The battery voltage is only 17.39, how can it be higher and AC? Just amazing!

Over at energetic forum one person has hooked it to a scope and said it gets 50 hertz, but his house runs on 60 hertz so its not coming from the house power. And one guy has a joule thief running off of it @ only 4ma!

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6684-captret-perpetual-light-dead-batteries.html#post115445

Open sourcing the Captret has open many new things!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Trastos on November 10, 2010, 10:44:44 PM
Hello, this is my current results (i can't wait more!)

I used 9V Battery from my multimeter (used)

Initial voltage: 7.77 off-load
Capacitor: Electrolitic 2.2uF - 65V

0 min - 7.68V on load and LED Full Bright
3 min - 8.03V on load and LED Full Bright
6 min - 8.18V on load and LED Full Bright
24 min - 8.28V on ...
31 min - 8.30V on ...
35 min - 8.31V on ...
55 min - 8.35V on ...

First proof is ok, battery is recharging, to be continued...

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 10, 2010, 11:08:09 PM
I just tried this circuit with a 47uf 250 volt cap and 2 x 9 volt batteries.  The batteries were not new but close to 9.0 volts.  However I did one thing different as I hate seeing people get excited about lighting a 5mm LED.  As it is I've got a flashlight that will run over a year which uses a 9 volt battery and a 5mm LED.  That's running non-stop over a year.  Most 5mm LED's are very low power diodes which consume very little for the effect they give which is a fairly dim amount of light. 

  So I dug out one of my orignal Luxeon high power LED's.  Not high power by the bleeding edge LED's but the power is rated at 1 watt and at that power it consume about 350 ma IIRC and normally are mounted on a heat sink. 
     I was amazed.   I hooked up the circuit and was surprised at how bright this LED was.  I know it's not running full tilt but it was bright enough to not want to stare at it.  Using a Fluke 87 meter I measured the voltage across the 2 batteries in series after it had been hooked up maybe 15 seconds.  It read 18.10 volts.  After about 30 seconds I checked again and it was 18.19 volts.  A minute or two later it was at 18.22 volts.  About 10 minutes it seems to have leveled off a bit at 18.23 volts.  Interesting. 
   I could not see any AC voltage other than millivolt range which was about the same as background AC when the leads are just hanging in the air. 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 10, 2010, 11:52:42 PM
I just switched to a 330 uf 100v cap.  The LED is way brighter - so bright I can't stare at it without concern of eye damage or at least seeing spots :D   The battery voltage started out lower with this cap.  It was at 16.40 in the first few seconds after hooking it up and I could see it rising right away.  I believe after a minute or two the LED is dimming some but the voltage has come all the way up to 17.25 volts.  Got to put it on the scope to see what it looks like. 
   This opens up lots of ideas to be tried.  Thanks ibp for showing us this interesting effect.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: woopy on November 11, 2010, 12:49:11 AM
my 2 cents

hope this helps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNbZNlX4c94

good night at all ;)

laurent
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 11, 2010, 01:11:44 AM
Just a couple more notes on observations with the high power LED.  Battery voltage topped out at 17.86 after maybe 20 minutes running.  When I disconnected the setup it returned to 18.01 volts.  The LED was dimmer near the end so I decided to check the alligator clip on the top of the Cap.  It was held  down with electrical tape.  I removed the tape and noted an interesting effect.  When the clip was in good contact with the top the LED was fairly dim now.  But when I pushed down on the clip the harder I pushed the brighter it got.  Both the aluminum on top of the Cap and the clip were clean.  So good contact was made even with light pressure but additional pressure seemed to provide a linear increase in brightness.  i.e. more pressure=brighter over quite a range  ??
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Trastos on November 11, 2010, 01:53:32 AM
Just a couple more notes on observations with the high power LED.  Battery voltage topped out at 17.86 after maybe 20 minutes running.  When I disconnected the setup it returned to 18.01 volts.  The LED was dimmer near the end so I decided to check the alligator clip on the top of the Cap.  It was held  down with electrical tape.  I removed the tape and noted an interesting effect.  When the clip was in good contact with the top the LED was fairly dim now.  But when I pushed down on the clip the harder I pushed the brighter it got.  Both the aluminum on top of the Cap and the clip were clean.  So good contact was made even with light pressure but additional pressure seemed to provide a linear increase in brightness.  i.e. more pressure=brighter over quite a range  ??

It's true what your comets, I have also tried the following:

Charge the capacitor, and give him a very light touch to the top with the pin on the LED, there is a very small flash, then connect the LED to the negative of the capacitor, and gives you that just as there is always a very very big flash. ..
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 11, 2010, 01:58:15 AM
It's true what your comets, I have also tried the following:

Charge the capacitor, and give him a very light touch to the top with the pin on the LED, there is a very small flash, then connect the LED to the negative of the capacitor, and gives you that just as there is always a very very big flash. ..

are you talking about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJZs6tlj_Y
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Trastos on November 11, 2010, 02:10:16 AM
are you talking about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJZs6tlj_Y

Yes, it is that example but the procedure I described.

If you apply a low pressure in the first shock, when performing the second is always very strong.

PD: 2+ Hours: 8.38 V and Decent Bright but not Full.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 11, 2010, 09:19:12 AM
I think I have some sort of success. Very impressive how this thing works. Not ALL caps works. You have to play with some until you find the correct one.

Some videos of my experiments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS1CHmpT98  and  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G90kA03WW7U

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Zooty on November 11, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
Just a couple more notes on observations with the high power LED.  Battery voltage topped out at 17.86 after maybe 20 minutes running.  When I disconnected the setup it returned to 18.01 volts.  The LED was dimmer near the end so I decided to check the alligator clip on the top of the Cap.  It was held  down with electrical tape.  I removed the tape and noted an interesting effect.  When the clip was in good contact with the top the LED was fairly dim now.  But when I pushed down on the clip the harder I pushed the brighter it got.  Both the aluminum on top of the Cap and the clip were clean.  So good contact was made even with light pressure but additional pressure seemed to provide a linear increase in brightness.  i.e. more pressure=brighter over quite a range  ??

I found this out too but im sure its to do with the plates moving inside the cap
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Trastos on November 11, 2010, 08:44:54 PM
Hi,

22 Hours - 8.41V and Decent Bright but not Full.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: majkl on November 11, 2010, 09:07:40 PM
Hi!
This is not about captret... but if you can help me...
I try to replicate this Dr. Stiffler's experiment. -- see the diagram and table with his results.
I have electrolytic capacitor 100uF/100V and Avramenko plug with 4 diodes 1N4148.
My result after 40 hours is that a capacitor is charging but very slowly...

time:
0 hours -- cap: 0.343 V
6 hours -- cap: 0.388 V
16 hours -- cap: 0.436 V
40 hours -- cap: 0.522 V

Can anybody explain me why my capacitor is not charging same speed as Dr. Stiffler's capacitor?
Do I need more diodes in series? Why is more diodes better?
Thanks ;)

--michael

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: romerouk on November 11, 2010, 11:03:11 PM
Hi!
This is not about captret... but if you can help me...
I try to replicate this Dr. Stiffler's experiment. -- see the diagram and table with his results.
I have electrolytic capacitor 100uF/100V and Avramenko plug with 4 diodes 1N4148.
My result after 40 hours is that a capacitor is charging but very slowly...

time:
0 hours -- cap: 0.343 V
6 hours -- cap: 0.388 V
16 hours -- cap: 0.436 V
40 hours -- cap: 0.522 V

Can anybody explain me why my capacitor is not charging same speed as Dr. Stiffler's capacitor?
Do I need more diodes in series? Why is more diodes better?
Thanks ;)

--michael
Make sure that no light goes to the diodes (cover them with something) then start measurements again.

All the best,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on November 11, 2010, 11:29:51 PM
Hello michael,

I think it has to do with the ground-connection which is different in each house. The neutral-line is connected with the ground-line ( in german-speaking europe we call it mass-line ) behind the main fuse-box of your house. So this physical point must be very well connected otherwise an ac-component which is induced  by the hot-line in the neutral line builds up. This is so because the hot- and the neutral line run parallell very close together. This ac-component is called loop-current and should be as low as possible. If the connecting point is in bad shape it has a higher ac-resistance any induced ac-current in the neutral-line cannot flow down to the ground via the groundline. This loop current oscillates between neutral- and ground-line from the connecting-point upwards to your wall-socket and I think that this is the current which charges your cap via the Avramenko-Plug.
So there is nothing you can do about it as it seems that your connecting-point is in better shape than the one from Stiffler´s house.

How to measure the loop-current ? Take a digi-meter switch to AC-mode and measure between ground-plug and neutral-line-plug. What does it read ? Millivolts or even volts ?

Regards

Kator01

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: majkl on November 12, 2010, 03:04:36 AM
@RomeroUK: Thank you. There is no change with the diodes covered. (Does a diode work different under light? I don't know this... (???)

@Kator01: Thank you! Between the ground and neutral line is 72 mV. Is it low?

And I still don't understand what is a difference between the Avramenko plug with just two diodes and AV-plug with more than two diodes?! (Stiffler has 18 diodes as AV-plug in some diagrams. - Why?)
Regards
--michael
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Goat on November 12, 2010, 03:50:47 AM
@ All

I just posted a circuit that needs 1.5 VDC to power it at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6763.msg263776#msg263776

I wonder if this circuit could be used in charging up a super or ultra capacitor in order to run the above mentioned circuit.

If anyone has access to a  super or ultra capacitor and is able to see if it can be charged by the captret circuit it could be a way forward to OU for us all.

Any and all feedback from everyone is welcome.

Regards,
Pal
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: fritznien on November 12, 2010, 06:50:35 AM
@RomeroUK: Thank you. There is no change with the diodes covered. (Does a diode work different under light? I don't know this... (???)

@Kator01: Thank you! Between the ground and neutral line is 72 mV. Is it low?

And I still don't understand what is a difference between the Avramenko plug with just two diodes and AV-plug with more than two diodes?! (Stiffler has 18 diodes as AV-plug in some diagrams. - Why?)
Regards
--michael
most semiconductors are light sensitive and photovoltaic.
if the diode cases leaks light it can act as a solar cell.
fritznien
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on November 12, 2010, 01:20:37 PM
@RomeroUK: Thank you. There is no change with the diodes covered. (Does a diode work different under light? I don't know this... (???)

@Kator01: Thank you! Between the ground and neutral line is 72 mV. Is it low?

And I still don't understand what is a difference between the Avramenko plug with just two diodes and AV-plug with more than two diodes?! (Stiffler has 18 diodes as AV-plug in some diagrams. - Why?)
Regards
--michael

Hello Michael,

yes, 72 mV is low. Just measured my loop-current and it is in the same range. Since my house-owner is an electric-engieneer I knwo that he has made all wire-connections at this critical point himself.

in order to understand the Avramenko-plug please study the attached picture. It is a Delon-circuit I once build for stable dual +-powersupply. Each positive halfwave loads the upper capacitor-level, each negative halfwave the bottom-cap-level. In the low-frequency-range of 50 or 60 Hz this only can work if you have the reference-line which is the other terminal of the transformer and which functions as the neutral line for both cap-arrays c1, c3 and c2,c4.

Now if you go up with the frequncy - as in the sec stiffler circuits - to 5 or 10 MHz this rectifying-process also works without a fixed line ( galvanically coupled), because high frequnecies seek ground-level in all metallic surface-areas in the near enviroment. This is done in his circuit-board by a plate attached to the bottom of his epoxi-board and can also be embedded a thin cupper-layer. This plate or layer is then galvanically coupled to the negative terminal of the power-Supply. But it works also without it.

Each additional diode in series increases the possible voltage-level the array can take while in the blocking-phase and second : the total capacity of the diode-array is lowered to 0,1 picoFarad ( it is a guess-value, have to measure the 1n4148 and calculate the total series-capacitance) thus beeing a blocking-filter for the lower-frequency-parts of his output-signal and let the higher frequencies pass easier. So any sharp nano-second-spike can pass easier into any target. His sec-exciter is a spike-generator with a lot of harmonics involved up to the 20 th harmonic of his basis-frequency. So be careful that you do not get into trouble with the administration ( wherever you live ) responsible for telecommunication-frequencies.
This is a fact, not communicated to people who buy his sec-exiters.

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: romerouk on November 12, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
@majkl
Most of the diodes glass encapsulated will act as solar cell. Connect 2 or more diodes in series and measure voltage while exposed to the light. More diodes, more voltage...

Have a nice day,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on November 12, 2010, 02:37:17 PM
Hi Ib,

I built your circuit but had a hard time getting it to charge without going below the original potential of the battery. I tried different diodes(silicon, germanium, schottky) with low +vf but it seemed the lower the +vf the faster it would discharge the battery. I replaced the LED with another cap and that is when I started to get a charging effect that didn't lower the potential of the battery.

Measured last night the battery(9v Alkaline) base reading was 8.692v this morning the measurement was 8.790v.

9volt battery
CT1(captret) = 100uf, 25v + lead has no connection.
C1 = 100uf, 16v

Wired this way

9v- === o(CT1)- === -(C1)+ === 9v+

I'm going to do this test again with another 9v to confirm.

Edit:switched Captret around o(CT1)-
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 12, 2010, 03:47:36 PM
I know i haven't answer many of the questions on this form and other things and thats because the energetic form is more alive with people doing the captret experiment then here. So if you want the latest info please check out the energetic form here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6684-captret-perpetual-light-dead-batteries-7.html#post116308

The regular captret design will have a voltage drop below the normal standing voltage but what makes the captret unique is that it doesn't keep dropping like in a normal circuit load, the voltage will go up. This should not happen especially when you have a capacitor in series, the captret doesn't play by the rules that we know.

I'll post the last diagram of the latest design i have of the captret just to keep things going here.


The diagram below is very differnt and more advance then the others.
with this new design my standing voltage on the batteries was 17.17
when i put the captret load on it it still stayed at 17.17
and this morning when i woke up it was at 17.19 volts
very strange

enjoy
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on November 12, 2010, 08:49:09 PM
@All,

I hooked a 1500F, 2.7v ultra cap to the circuit below. I originally charged the cap with solar so the base reading was 2.245v. A hour later it is 2.246v. I will leave this running over night and see what the reading is tomorrow.

I tried a smaller cap and charged it to see if I could keep it going but it drained to quick. You need large caps that will discharge slower than the charge rate.

I noticed one thing on the scope that is odd the DC component has a slight AC component riding on it through the Captret. I'm wondering if this slight AC component is just enough to push it slightly over the source voltage and we are just catching it with the cap. So if your source voltage is 9v and a small AC wave is pushing it over say .001 we have 9.001v charge from our 9v input. As the voltage increases we are still catching this slight imbalance. So if our charge goes to 9.001 + next wave = 9.002v. It's something that needs to be looked at further.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 12, 2010, 10:02:55 PM
I have a captret just like ibpointless2 circuit above that has been running for 3 days now. New 9 volt battery when started, now v=10.8  :o

my caps are 200v 680uf 2 in series running 9 LED from small flashlight.

There is more  fun with 12v lead acid battery. I have an instructable over at energeticforum to building a very large electrolytic capacitor.

Grab some caps and replicate. Old PS from computers have tons of them, I just got 10 atx power supply free from the local recycling, even picked up one on the side curb.

Happy tinkering.  :)
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 13, 2010, 04:02:18 AM
I have a captret just like ibpointless2 circuit above that has been running for 3 days now. New 9 volt battery when started, now v=10.8  :o

my caps are 200v 680uf 2 in series running 9 LED from small flashlight.

There is more  fun with 12v lead acid battery. I have an instructable over at energeticforum to building a very large electrolytic capacitor.

Grab some caps and replicate. Old PS from computers have tons of them, I just got 10 atx power supply free from the local recycling, even picked up one on the side curb.

Happy tinkering.  :)

could i get a compete exact diagram of your setup? you can post it at energetic forum if you like.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 08:36:39 AM
could i get a compete exact diagram of your setup? you can post it at energetic forum if you like.
this is what I first saw on lidmotors video, I just took off the exciter.

the negative from the battery is attached to the 2 caps in the center, and fastened with a rubberband to ensure firm contact to the capacitor container which is bare.

My LEDs are from a small flashlight, total 9 LEDs which is not bright.

I've found that higher volt, higher capacity = higher light production, decrease load=higher charging,

fastest charging achieved with 1 led,  250v, 2200 uf cap

this is pure speculations as these results were observed in crude experiment using a small analog volt meter. All of my digital meters were fried in an earlier experiment with a Tesla high frequency generator.

I will conduct a controlled experiment tomorrow after I get some new meters.

Cheers  :)
Title: Can you handle the naked TRUTH?
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 12:44:11 PM
I have been watching my little 9v captret lighting non stop for 3 straight days. As usual, I want to get down to the TRUTH. So I let the LED drain the battery for a whole day.

Finally, It was @5.6V. Dead as Dead.

I pulled off the 9 led and 400v captret and  swap for 250v 2200 uf electrolytic capacitor with fast switching diode, Volt sarted rising. hmmm, It's not LED Photon or what ever mambo jambo that everyone loves to hallucinate. Then I pulled off the diode and attach the negative from capacitor directly to the battery negative attached to the capacitor housing. Ahhh ..there lays the  Magic. Volts across the capacitor jumped from 2.54v to 5.8v and Volt goes up fast.

There you have it, Nothing special here. It is FREE ENERGY via electrochemical induced currents, self charging the source. Nice and simple.

Look at the picture, the Cap is at least 4x the size of the battery. Now build some large electrolytic capacitor as I had instructed and charge your Lead Acid for free, and quickly. I am charging mine as I write this.

Nature is simple, Lets  forget the moronic mambo jumbo such as scalar, photon or what ever that's loaded in your head. Get back to basic, Nature is Simple, let's keep it that way.

I now wonder why I never did learn about Elecrochemical Induction.

Volt climbed to 6.9 within 1 hour. I added another 250v 2200 uf in series, now it's singing. Fast cheap charging.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: penno64 on November 13, 2010, 01:00:08 PM
Hi Dave,

Can we please have a link to this instructable ? Or at least a thread title ?

or maybe a diagram here.

I like the idea of being able to charge a battery using only a cap and diode.

Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 04:36:41 PM
Hi Dave,

Can we please have a link to this instructable ? Or at least a thread title ?

or maybe a diagram here.

I like the idea of being able to charge a battery using only a cap and diode.

Regards, Penno

Simple Free Energy Self Charging Battery Charger. No Diode, Just Electrolytic capacitor.
All Due credit goes to ibpointless2 , this is only my variant.

@All
My circuit is simple.
9v battery > + goes to capacitor +
battery - is attached tightly to housing of capacitor
capacitor - is connected to capacitor housing.

I use 250v 2200 uf electrolytic capacitor with bare metal housing, take off the film cover to expose aluminum casing, charge takes approx 5 hours for 9v battery. 5v-9.5
For faster charging, tank up more caps in series.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 04:40:19 PM
USE PRECAUTION - I am not LIABLE for anything.

It is possible to construct a very large electrolytic cap quite easily.

Materials:
Roll of  paper - I use brown kraft paper, must withhold wet fluid. I soak paper in electrolyte for about 1 hr to get good saturation.
Roll of Mylar plastic
Electrolyte - 50% Antifreeze
ribbon wire
12 ga insulated wire for post.
Empty can with lid (paint can Hardware Store, remove inside paint with wire brush or paint strip acid, recycle canned food, aluminum soda cans etc. - best result with aluminum) .2" taller than paper.

Roll paper and mylar creating a spiral coil - bi-filar, Mylar must be shorter than paper as to avoid shorting if it contacts the top of the metal enclosure. Make sure that the plastic side face paper and the aluminum layer is inside. Keep the coil as tight as possible and make enough to fill the can leaving .2" space when placed inside the can.

Attach ribbon wire with cellophane tape to each side of the mylar film, ensuring that the wire cuts down at 90 degrees perpendicular to the coil. Attach ribbon when coil diameter reaches hole for conduction post, just like in a electrolytic cap. Drill 2 holes on can cap, hole size to tightly fit conduction wire. Finish wrapping the coil. Wrap the outside of the coil with cellophane tape securely and place in can. Solder ribbon to conduction post. Fill with electrolyte and cap the bottom end to prevent leakage.

I am testing electrolytes to see which one works best. Mylar is cellophane dielectric with aluminum coating. There are many peculiar electrochemical behaviors of Al such as self induction etc, I am testing acidic and alkaline electrolytes. Anyone got a link to more info will be greatly appreciated.

For charging 12v Lead Acid, you need to construct 1 gallon size caps, wire in series for faster charge time.
Pesto, Ultra captret
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: broli on November 13, 2010, 05:20:40 PM
hidave I think in your excitement your post on the previous page got very confusion. I suggest you draw your stepwise setup rather than describe it with words. Anyway thanks for the diy cap explanation.

Edit: I attached a drawing of your supposed fast charger, can you tell if that's all it is?

Edit2: Corrected polarity.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 13, 2010, 05:29:33 PM
hi hidave,  thanks for sharing your setup.  Can you say what exact diode number you use? 
   I also just have one suggestion that would further prove what you described.  Get two batteries at the same starting voltage.  Run both down to the same amount.  Put one in your circuit and let the other just sit.  Measure voltage on both after the one in the circuit is charged back up.  Most alkalines will recover a fair amount of voltage after sitting a while even though they are not quite as strong in providing current.  I think this needs to be ruled out before getting too excited about this.  I'll try getting time to do something like this. 
   Also thanks for the reminder on Cap building as I recently found a big roll of metalic mylar stuff at a garage sale.  I know it's a huge cap just waiting to be built :)
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 13, 2010, 05:32:16 PM
broli,  I don't think you have polarities correct from what hidave said.  Thanks for the diagram but check the polarities.   I think it should be like this
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: broli on November 13, 2010, 05:45:21 PM
broli,  I don't think you have polarities correct from what hidave said.  Thanks for the diagram but check the polarities.

You are correct. However this setup makes the led shine brightly too. It's crucial to connect the plus to the housing or else it won't light, or barely that is.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 05:53:52 PM
broli,  I don't think you have polarities correct from what hidave said.  Thanks for the diagram but check the polarities.   I think it should be like this
no diode.

caps only.

Battery positive goes to cap positive.

Battery negative goes to cap housing, strip the film wrap off the cap exposing the exterior bare aluminum.

Cap negative goes to cap housing.

Rubber band holds 2 negative leads against the cap housing.  If using 4 caps, bundle them together secure tight with clamps or the like. Then wire caps in series with same setup, as above.

Thats it.

A bank of 4 x 250v 2200 uf caps wired in series will charge a dead 9v cell from 5v to 9.5v in 2-3 hrs. I've tried!.

This is an open circuit, that's how nature is, NON-LINEAR!!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 06:00:42 PM
This picture might help.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 06:06:50 PM
Capacitor Capacity is the key to fast charging. The BIGGER, the FASTER. Reminds me of Ossie's REAC.
We will probably need 5 Gallon bucket size Captret to charge each 12v Lead Acid in a manner comparable to conventional method.

Rigg up some capacitors and induce with current, different electrolytes produces different effects, even anti-gravity.

Here's a kick, make an electrolytic cap with copper foil/cellophane/paper bi-filar and use different electrolytes stating with saline. WOW!!!, that is Electrochemical Effect!!!!

Observe NATURE. Everything occurs in cycles. You are brainwashed to think in LINEAR way which is very wrong.

The electrolytic capacitor is no more than a bi-filar coil immersed in fluid. When DC current is passed through this coil, it causes effects which varies according to the molecules of the material. Such effects includes production of Induced CURRENT form electrolytic . That is our power source.

Electrochemical Induced Currents - old phenomena from 1877 believe it or not.

I'll leave Aether out to lessen the confusion.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: broli on November 13, 2010, 06:16:52 PM
A bank of 4 x 250v 2200 uf caps wired in series will charge a dead 9v cell from 5v to 9.5v in 2-3 hrs. I've tried!.

I assume you confirmed that this is true usable charge that can give as much (or more) joule energy as when it was conventionally charged?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 06:18:13 PM
hidave I think in your excitement your post on the previous page got very confusion. I suggest you draw your stepwise setup rather than describe it with words. Anyway thanks for the diy cap explanation.

Edit: I attached a drawing of your supposed fast charger, can you tell if that's all it is?

Edit2: Corrected polarity.

CORRECT!!!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 06:22:03 PM
I assume you confirmed that this is true usable charge that can give as much (or more) joule energy as when it was conventionally charged?

currently draining a charged battery with LED. Will let rest 24 hrs and recharge as requested by  ibpointless2

battery is very cold to the touch, these are regular alkaline batteries.

I'll do a controlled test later and post the joules data, or perhaps someone can do it?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 13, 2010, 06:29:05 PM
I just did a quick and dirty test on a 9 volt battery that has been sitting a couple days.  Start was 9.09 volts.  Hooked up a 330 uf electrolytic same as my diagram - no diode.  Voltage went down to 9.08 volts.  Didn't see any rise after a few minutes.  No time to check further right now but as I was saying I'm concerned about alkaline self recovery in this situation.  My quick test is not conclusive at all but just hints that it might be involved. 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hidave on November 13, 2010, 06:34:00 PM
I just did a quick and dirty test on a 9 volt battery that has been sitting a couple days.  Start was 9.09 volts.  Hooked up a 330 uf electrolytic same as my diagram - no diode.  Voltage went down to 9.08 volts.  Didn't see any rise after a few minutes.  No time to check further right now but as I was saying I'm concerned about alkaline self recovery in this situation.  My quick test is not conclusive at all but just hints that it might be involved.

small caps takes long long time to notice gain, get a hold of 200v 2200 uf caps, PC power supply have some decent size caps. Or make your own. I have tried a 12 oz red bull can captret that I made, works very well.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 13, 2010, 06:39:04 PM
CORRECT!!!

I am confused now. PLEASE can you post a diagram (one of the above is ok) that is the ULTIMATE correct diagram hive? Not words but a diagram.

many thanks,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 13, 2010, 07:27:50 PM
I think both mine and broli's corrected diagram (the one without the diode ) is what hidave is using. 

I've got some 50000 (fifty thousand) uf Caps and just tried one.  Also got a 550 Farad super cap but haven't tried it yet.  Did try a 1650 ufd 200 volt cap precharged to about 8.5 volts.  This dropped battery voltage 0.01 volts when hooked up and hasn't moved since.  I'll leave this one on for a while but I think I was having better luck with ibpointless's original circuit.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 14, 2010, 04:27:42 AM
I have a new version of Captret that I think will make some not very confortable. Since the theories around has to do with voltage not current and some people seems to be able to replicate this phenomena and others only see the usual, I decided to share my new findings.

So please no need to flame me. I am only sharing my DATA with no conclusions about why and how it works.

I connected the circuit as shown on the picture attached. The two caps are identical eletrolitic caps 560uf and 250vdc. Bought on ebay from one nice batch of 15 (cheap too).

They are connected to two 12 volts lead acid battery of 100amp/h and 70amp/h car batteries. The idea here is not to see if the battery will charge but if they will discharge and at what rate.

I am using a 25 watt LED (also from ebay) that is lit to subjectively speaking 1/10 of its power and still very bright to the eye. Difficult to look at it.

Resting voltages totaled 24.8192v steady (since they have been not used for days now). As soon circuit was connected voltage drop to 24.6550v and have being going up steadily. I later started measuring the current in both negative and positive poles of the batteries and surprisingly enough the current consumption is not equal in both sides. Current has stabilized at 3.5ma (one can see the picture notes).

I measure the temperature of the LED and it is room temperature, feeling cold to the touch. I used an electronic laser meter for the measurement.

I decided to test another LED of exactly same type (25 watts) and see how much current it would take to light it up to "eye compatible luminosity" and I was not surprised to see it takes at least 200 ma at 20v. It also gets very hot at that power consumption, going to as high as 60 degrees Celsius.

To me it is very difficult to understand how I can light an LED to that brightness (as seen on the photo) with so little current (under 5ma at 24+volts).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: lasersaber on November 14, 2010, 04:40:09 AM
This is really strange.  I am very surprised by what I have found in experimenting with this Captret stuff.  Check out my video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF1z-aN3Hig
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 14, 2010, 05:35:35 AM
I think this thing is very powerfull. Look at this picture. On the right I have one LED in series with the Captrets and the battery.

It is fully lit. Running a wopping 1.84ma at 24.80v (pun intended). On the left I have 4 of the exact same LED fully lit (both sides seems to the eye at least same luminosity each LED). The four LEDs are in series.

Those LEDs on the left are what the Captret is running for that miserable 1.84ma of input. To me it sounds like the Captret is capable of making an input run four times stronger for the price of one.

More voltage is absolutely better. I can run many LEDs at an amazing less than one miliamp fully using this technique.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: conradelektro on November 14, 2010, 11:51:01 AM
This is really strange.  I am very surprised by what I have found in experimenting with this Captret stuff.  Check out my video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF1z-aN3Hig

@ Lasersaber,

great video, I agree, there is some correlation between the strange things going on "electro-chemically" in a Stubblefield Coil and in a Captret.

I always ask experimenters to make a drawing of the circuit (however simple the circuit is) instead of verbally explaining the circuit. Specially for non English speakers the verbal circuit explanations are extremely hard to follow. Look at the drawing Plengo did on a piece of paper by hand (in the post above your post), it becomes immediately clear what he is talking about. Also Lidmotor does this nicely in his videos.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hoptoad on November 14, 2010, 12:30:21 PM
I have a new version of Captret that I think will make some not very confortable. Since the theories around has to do with voltage not current and some people seems to be able to replicate this phenomena and others only see the usual, I decided to share my new findings.

So please no need to flame me. I am only sharing my DATA with no conclusions about why and how it works.

I connected the circuit as shown on the picture attached. The two caps are identical eletrolitic caps 560uf and 250vdc. Bought on ebay from one nice batch of 15 (cheap too).

They are connected to two 12 volts lead acid battery of 100amp/h and 70amp/h car batteries. The idea here is not to see if the battery will charge but if they will discharge and at what rate.

I am using a 25 watt LED (also from ebay) that is lit to subjectively speaking 1/10 of its power and still very bright to the eye. Difficult to look at it.

Resting voltages totaled 24.8192v steady (since they have been not used for days now). As soon circuit was connected voltage drop to 24.6550v and have being going up steadily. I later started measuring the current in both negative and positive poles of the batteries and surprisingly enough the current consumption is not equal in both sides. Current has stabilized at 3.5ma (one can see the picture notes).

I measure the temperature of the LED and it is room temperature, feeling cold to the touch. I used an electronic laser meter for the measurement.

I decided to test another LED of exactly same type (25 watts) and see how much current it would take to light it up to "eye compatible luminosity" and I was not surprised to see it takes at least 200 ma at 20v. It also gets very hot at that power consumption, going to as high as 60 degrees Celsius.

To me it is very difficult to understand how I can light an LED to that brightness (as seen on the photo) with so little current (under 5ma at 24+volts).

Fausto.

Great to login again after a long absence from this forum (and the net as a whole)
Glad to see you're still at it Plengo!

Experimenting that is...  :D

You've shared a few observations in your quote above that really make me pause to wonder.
The assymetrical current readings for starters. Hmmmmmnnnn what to make of that one ?

Anyway, great stuff Plengo. Looking forward to more posts from you.

Cheers from Hoptoad
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gyulasun on November 14, 2010, 12:58:20 PM
Dear Hoptoad,

Would you check your personal message box, when you have some time of course.

Cheers,  Gyula
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hoptoad on November 14, 2010, 02:35:07 PM
I think this thing is very powerfull. Look at this picture. On the right I have one LED in series with the Captrets and the battery.

It is fully lit. Running a wopping 1.84ma at 24.80v (pun intended). On the left I have 4 of the exact same LED fully lit (both sides seems to the eye at least same luminosity each LED). The four LEDs are in series.

Those LEDs on the left are what the Captret is running for that miserable 1.84ma of input. To me it sounds like the Captret is capable of making an input run four times stronger for the price of one.

More voltage is absolutely better. I can run many LEDs at an amazing less than one miliamp fully using this technique.

Fausto.

Is that from the same circuit as the one you previously posted on this page?

Cheers from Hoptoad
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Kator01 on November 14, 2010, 03:43:29 PM
lasersaber,

can you please post a circuit of what you did in your video ? it is clear to me what you did with 2 positive leads of the first two cap and the negative lead of the third cap in series

Regards

Kator01

PS : @all : this effect might have to do with aluminium-oxid-layer of the casing which is in direct contact to the electrolyte ( depending on the type of cap, of course ) and may cause a glow-discharge which is another interesting phaenomenon.

See here :
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/borax.htm (http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/borax.htm)

See also Heffner work :

Topics
Orange Glow Cell - Jan 2006 (pdf)

. A Method for Producing Free Energy - Jan 2006 (pdf)

http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ (http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/)
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 14, 2010, 04:01:10 PM
Maybe it is this what @lasersaber did.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 14, 2010, 04:24:40 PM
Is that from the same circuit as the one you previously posted on this page?

Cheers from Hoptoad

hello my friend. Great to hear from you too.

YES, it is from the same circuit. I call it version 3 (v3).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 14, 2010, 04:33:31 PM
Is this correct?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 14, 2010, 04:37:31 PM
Is this correct?

Hello nievesoliveras. YES it is correct.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 14, 2010, 04:45:28 PM
Thank @plengo!
Nice to see you around.

Jesus
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on November 14, 2010, 05:06:03 PM
Hi All,

I measured the setup from my last circuit using two caps charging the ultra-cap, the voltage initially rose to 2.247v but has now dropped to 2.241v (-0.006v) after 2 days. Have to keep experimenting with different setups.

@Plengo, That is a great setup you have working. What would be the current draw from a small incandescent lamp?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 14, 2010, 06:07:31 PM
Hi All,

I measured the setup from my last circuit using two caps charging the ultra-cap, the voltage initially rose to 2.247v but has now dropped to 2.241v (-0.006v) after 2 days. Have to keep experimenting with different setups.

@Plengo, That is a great setup you have working. What would be the current draw from a small incandescent lamp?

I tried many different lamps and LEDs and they all differ. It can go from 200ma to micro-amps. Lower the resistance of the lamp more current it uses.

LEDs have an special characteristic in their minimum "avalanche" voltage (forward voltage?) that limits somehow the minimum current consumption also when they are put in series that voltage is higher which ALSO allows a fine balance where the current consumption is minimized and the "output" from the Captret (my 25 watts LED in my diagram) is the maximum.

I also noticed that when this balance is reached the performance overall is tremendously improved, that is to say, power usage of input is the lowest and power output is the maximum.

One of my experiments I can clearly see that for the price of lighting one LED (3.6v led) and a miserable less than 2ma input I can light 4 LEDs (3.6v). I have not measured the current in the output yet but I will do many more experiments too.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gmeast on November 14, 2010, 10:19:56 PM
broli,  I don't think you have polarities correct from what hidave said.  Thanks for the diagram but check the polarities.   I think it should be like this

If the o represents the cap housing then the picture you posted is the same as the hidave circuit or aam I missing something?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 14, 2010, 10:50:08 PM
I tried taking an scope shot of the positive of the "output" LEDs and negative and it is very difficult to see anything. My scope is a 20mhz. I also tried another analog scope 200mhz but nothing usefull (at least for me).

I noticed that there are some spikes that are so shart and fast that the scope has difficulty showing. In this picture is kind of visible right at the center of the scope. Noticed that I am using 10x probe for better sampling and it is at my maximum voltage division of 50mv.

The time division is at 5us. This is channel 1 (red line).  I would say that this little visible spike can be high as 2 division marks making it up to 100mv but one must stay and watch the scope running with a lot of attention.

I would assume those spikes are simply an artifact of the real energy lighting the LEDs which may not be really measurable by this kind of electronic equipment. Sounds like a pure "Radiant Energy" phenomena, but hey, what do I know about it?!!!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gmeast on November 15, 2010, 01:06:20 AM
measured

Initially I was very excited about this so I set out to take some measurements.

Procedure:
Measure the resistance between all of the contacts (leads)
How I did this was to:

1 Take a pair of leads & hook the DVM to them separately
2 Short them together
3 Release them
4 Let the DVM settle
5 Record the resistance reading

I did this for all of the possible combinations. I also swapped the leads of the DVM and repeated 1-5

My measurements resulted in the following in Mega Ohms:
- & + = 13 Meg
o & - = 6 Meg
o & - = 8 Meg
o & - & + = 10 Meg (this was a weird one ... did it several times)

With my dead Alkaline 9V @ 7V the driver circuit lit a red led at a dim output. I also lit the same led to the same dimness with a 6.8 Meg resistor directly to the battery.

I also measured 4.3 ma flowing from the battery to the Captret and 3.4 ma flowing from the Captret to the led.

The Casing & - form a small capacitor in addition to the - & +

THE ELECTROLYTE LEAKS ENOUGH CURRENT TO DRIVE AN LED

So make your own measurements and make a wise decision. Over Unity ? You decide. The enthusiasm was encouraging, but keep trying though.

I'm going back to the "This Is It" thread on Energetic Forum ... good luck
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 15, 2010, 01:17:17 AM
measured

Initially I was very excited about this so I set out to take some measurements.

Procedure:
Measure the resistance between all of the contacts (leads)
How I did this was to:

1 Take a pair of leads & hook the DVM to them separately
2 Short them together
3 Release them
4 Let the DVM settle
5 Record the resistance reading

I did this for all of the possible combinations. I also swapped the leads of the DVM and repeated 1-5

My measurements resulted in the following in Mega Ohms:
- & + = 13 Meg
o & - = 6 Meg
o & - = 8 Meg
o & - & + = 10 Meg (this was a weird one ... did it several times)

With my dead Alkaline 9V @ 7V the driver circuit lit a red led at a dim output. I also lit the same led to the same dimness with a 6.8 Meg resistor directly to the battery.

I also measured 4.3 ma flowing from the battery to the Captret and 3.4 ma flowing from the Captret to the led.

The Casing & - form a small capacitor in addition to the - & +

THE ELECTROLYTE LEAKS ENOUGH CURRENT TO DRIVE AN LED

So make your own measurements and make a wise decision. Over Unity ? You decide. The enthusiasm was encouraging, but keep trying though.

I'm going back to the "This Is It" thread on Energetic Forum ... good luck


Isn't your current a little high? The current should have gone down over time if you have used the original circuit.

And if you're using the original captret design, then that one was never set out to be overunity but merely a LED driver circuit. Its the captret circuits that charge themselves is what is interesting. I've got a few that charge themselves from a standing voltage. Lasersaber got a super cap charging it self. Many others are seeing the same effect.

I think you may have jump the gun on this one. But thanks for the insight.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gmeast on November 15, 2010, 01:43:08 AM

Isn't your current a little high? The current should have gone down over time if you have used the original circuit.

And if you're using the original captret design, then that one was never set out to be overunity but merely a LED driver circuit. Its the captret circuits that charge themselves is what is interesting. I've got a few that charge themselves from a standing voltage. Lasersaber got a super cap charging it self. Many others are seeing the same effect.

I think you may have jump the gun on this one. But thanks for the insight.

Initially it was the self-charging circuit that drew my attention.  In fact I thought it was astounding when I went to my storage trailer find a cap, the one I chose was a 60,000 uF cap that had been sitting for over 4 months.  It had nearly 6V in it and I remember shorting it for about an hour before storing it ... something I always do with big caps.  I've always noticed the self-charging characteristics of electrolytic caps and I though your show might be a refinement.  The only thing is, I didn't see any enhanced effect over what an electrolytic cap does by itself.  The fact that you can discharge the small stored energy into an led using the (-) and the can is novel, but that is why they wrap them in an insulator ... to prevent an unintentional discharge on the PCB.  A benefit yet might unfold.  Now I have to go and study the Electret again ... bah humbug
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on November 15, 2010, 03:44:02 AM
Revealing the Mystery of Negative Impedance, http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Talk:Circuit_Idea/Revealing_the_Mystery_of_Negative_Impedance

Negative impedance converter, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_impedance_converter

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 15, 2010, 03:56:00 AM
Revealing the Mystery of Negative Impedance, http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Talk:Circuit_Idea/Revealing_the_Mystery_of_Negative_Impedance

Negative impedance converter, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_impedance_converter

GB


so are you trying to say that the captret is a negative capacitor? "Negacitor" has a nice ring to it?   ;D
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on November 15, 2010, 04:47:59 AM
Miller Theorem, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_theorem

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gmeast on November 15, 2010, 05:51:41 AM

so are you trying to say that the captret is a negative capacitor? "Negacitor" has a nice ring to it?   ;D

If the elements get 'cold' then the "Negacaptret" would be a 'negative' device.

Well, I have a dead NiMH battery hooked to 250V 47uF cap, case fed back to -.  Presently at 0.3591VDC.  It's a 'hidave fast charger'.  We'll see what happens  by morning.  It's 9:20 PM mountain time.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gmeast on November 15, 2010, 06:08:13 AM
If the elements get 'cold' then the "Negacaptret" would be a 'negative' device.

Well, I have a dead NiMH battery hooked to 250V 47uF cap, case fed back to -.  Presently at 0.3591VDC.  It's a 'hidave fast charger'.  We'll see what happens  by morning.  It's 9:20 PM mountain time.

at 10:00 PM mountain time the Captret is at 0.3631 VDC. The heater went on in the room and I thought that may account for part of it, so I looked at the curve for the NIMH battery for capacity vs temperature and it really can't account for the rise, so ibpointless2, I am feelin' the self charger but not the led driver.

Greg
Title: Captret Charger v1.1
Post by: hidave on November 15, 2010, 08:30:25 AM
Here's my latest captret charger, this one Rocks.

When draining the charged battery, there's more joules than conventional battery!.

Can't do test, someone please replicate and post data.

Same circuit for Lead Acid Battery capret, I have made 4 x 1 gallon size electrolytic capacitor, it's pretty crazy!!!, will post more info soon. :)

Don't just read, get tinkering.

Free Energy is here.
Title: Correction
Post by: hidave on November 15, 2010, 08:38:12 AM
oops, here's the right one. You dont need Spdt switch if you dont have one..

Just pull out the LED and hook up Cap - to anywhere on the side of the caps.

Title: Alkaline is Rechargable
Post by: hidave on November 15, 2010, 12:25:47 PM
All the batteries I've charged with Captret have been alkaline, the throw away kine. I have not over charged a battery, but I'm gonna find out what happens soon 

Battery is very cold when being charged.

Note:
Do not drain your battery to below 60%, you can still charge them but the will take forever.

A 9 volt was drained to 5.0 as requested by ibpointless, it took 24 hrs just to reach 7.5v with my new captret self charger.

Drain batteries 9v to no less than 7v, and they'll charge in 3 hrs. Much faster charge time on AAA and AA.

Try em, post result.
Title: DIY Capacitor
Post by: hidave on November 15, 2010, 12:28:09 PM
this got deleted? >:(

DIY low cost Large Electrolytic Capacitor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
USE PRECAUTION - Wear gloves, mask, eye goggles etc, Use Safety and Common Sense. I am not LIABLE for anything.

It is possible to construct a very large electrolytic cap quite easily.

Materials:
2 - Roll of paper - I use brown kraft paper, must withhold wet fluid. I soak paper in electrolyte for about 1 hr to get good saturation.
3 - Roll of Aluminium Foil (2 rolls thickest ones you can find, 1 roll thinnest one you can find)
Electrolyte - 50% Antifreeze
ribbon wire or you can cut a strip of thin copper sheet 1/6" wide +- depending on cap size
12 ga insulated wire for post.
Empty can with lid (paint can Hardware Store, remove inside paint with wire brush or paint strip acid, recycle canned food, aluminum soda cans etc. - best result with aluminum) .2" taller than paper.

Soak paper in electrolyte for 1 hour to ensure good saturation.

Start rolling 1 layer of paper and make a coil of about .5" thick, then double up the thick aluminium and add to coil creating a spiral coil - bi-filar, Foil must be shorter than paper about .5" is good as to avoid shorting if it contacts the top of the metal enclosure. Keep the coil as tight as possible, when coil thickness is large enough to pass hole on cap, attach your ribbon wire or copper strip and tape securely with cellophane tape. Wire runs down from top to bottom of coil at 90 degrees. Make one more turn then add second layer of paper, one more turn then add the layer of thinner foil. A few turns then atach ribbon wire in the same manner and secure. Now make enough of the coil to fill the can leaving .2" space when placed inside the can. Wrap the outside of the coil with cellophane tape securely and place in can. Solder ribbon to conduction post.

Ensuring that the wire cuts down at 90 degrees perpendicular to the coil, just like in a electrolytic cap. Drill 2 holes on can cap, hole size to tightly fit conduction wire. Cap the bottom end to prevent leakage. Tape cap down securely with aluminium tape etc to make sure it is air tight.

Hook up to a battery, test for polarity and mark on the can.


Pesto, Ultra captret
Title: Re: Correction
Post by: majkl on November 15, 2010, 03:42:26 PM
oops, here's the right one. You dont need Spdt switch if you dont have one..

Just pull out the LED and hook up Cap - to anywhere on the side of the caps.
Hi hidave!
Your capacitors are in series, so the total capacity is less than a capacity of 1 capacitor (you have 4x 12000uF so total capacity is about 3000uF)
Have you tried capacitors in parallel? (total capacity will be 48000uF)

Do I need 250V capacitor if I want charge just 9V battery? Can I use 16V capacitor with the same capacity? Is it just about a capacity or about all energy the capacitor can store? (So the bigger capacity of capacitor and higher voltage means better results - faster charging ?!)
Regards
--michael
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 15, 2010, 06:06:33 PM
Can someone try this with NiMH or NiCd batteries.  I think you may find it does not charge if I'm right about the alkaline recovery effect.  Start with a NiMH that has been sitting a day or two.  If it goes up in voltage from this circuit then you may have something but with alkalines it does not say a lot.   
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 15, 2010, 08:09:34 PM
Can someone try this with NiMH or NiCd batteries.  I think you may find it does not charge if I'm right about the alkaline recovery effect.  Start with a NiMH that has been sitting a day or two.  If it goes up in voltage from this circuit then you may have something but with alkalines it does not say a lot.

I have one of my captret self chargers running a 1.2 volt Ni-Cd 350 mAh rechargeable battery (the ones you get out of solar garden lights). It was left sitting for a week, the standing voltage on it was 1.138 volts. Now its up to 1.142 volts.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: void109 on November 15, 2010, 08:32:46 PM
I want to start with an apology.  I don't have time to read the pages of this thread I would need to, in order to catch up on where everyone is at with this subject.  I just want to share what I was looking at, where my intuition led me, just so I've thrown it out there, so to speak, on the off chance that this content is somehow useful to someone.

I had a notion that the two terminals of the capacitor, in conjunction with the case, were forming a series capacitance, and that what might be happening is we're tapping off of the midpoint of this series.

Others have said that it works with some capacitors and not others.  From my own testing, I found I couldnt get it to work from polarized electrolytic capacitors, but it the effect is present on non-polar electrolytic capacitors.  This, for me at least, added weight to my suspicion.

I then began hooking up various polarized electrolytic capacitors in series with reversed polarities for non-polar behavior and began tapping off of the junction between them.  I have seen similar (maybe identical, too pressed for time right now to be sure) behavior in this configuration.  It appears that if you draw power off of this junction, you will end up biasing the voltage distribution between the two capacitors, slowly.  When you remove the load, the slowly return to their original configuration (which draws current from the battery, I had several ammeters hooked up in various locations to measure the flow).

In a capacitor, is it the case that charge can slowly leak through the dielectric to balance charge?  If so, is it possible that this is all that is happening?  It seems like by tapping off of this midpoint you can draw current at the voltage rating present at the time, but the current draw is limited due to the behavior of the capacitors.  Which I think is interesting, because if you were to say limit the current using a resistor, you'd be dropping a significant portion of the voltage across the resistor instead of the load, whereas in this case you can apply the full voltage (apparently) but the current is limited.

Busy with my job right now, I need to make videos as soon as my schedule clears up a bit.  Thank you, please dont murder me for throwing sloppy research out there! :)  Gotta run!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on November 15, 2010, 08:59:01 PM
@e2matrix,

I'm currently running a test with a 9V (actually 8,4V) NiCad, 150mAh.
I never could get this to work until I discovered that all my electrolytic
capacitors wanted to be positive at the can measured against the negative
terminal. So I used a ultra fast diode as shown in the attached drawing.
My NiCad has SLOWELY been gaining voltage from 7,36 Volt (yesterday)
to 7,56 Volt (today). I have no conclusions yet if the battery has gained
any real charge. One thing is for sure, I have repeated a shorting test of a capacitor
many times, and it always charge back to approx. 0,05 Volt. So the anomaly
of capacitor self charge is real. All my recharging tests with 9V depleted Duracell
batteries has been negative so far.

Alex.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: void109 on November 15, 2010, 09:59:05 PM
Cant stop thinking about this.

This guy has some interesting ideas about dialelectric absorption with regard to the self-charging capacitor:

http://toptinkers.com/node/41

And references quantum tunneling as a possible explanation (and 2nd law violation), pointing to this article:

http://execonn.com/maxwell/maxwells_demon.html

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on November 16, 2010, 12:10:24 AM
@e2matrix,

I'm currently running a test with a 9V (actually 8,4V) NiCad, 150mAh.
I never could get this to work until I discovered that all my electrolytic
capacitors wanted to be positive at the can measured against the negative
terminal. So I used a ultra fast diode as shown in the attached drawing.
My NiCad has SLOWELY been gaining voltage from 7,36 Volt (yesterday)
to 7,56 Volt (today). I have no conclusions yet if the battery has gained
any real charge. One thing is for sure, I have repeated a shorting test of a capacitor
many times, and it always charge back to approx. 0,05 Volt. So the anomaly
of capacitor self charge is real. All my recharging tests with 9V depleted Duracell
batteries has been negative so far.

Alex.

Hello Alex. Just seeing your post makes me SO HAPPY man. So you are seeing this too. I guess you are one of the top not engineers here that is willing to give it a try even though it looks craizy.

I have about 5 different systems running now and some work and some don't. Very weird. I also noticed what you mention that some caps have the difference in potential different of ipbpointeless2 shows in his original schematics. Some caps "wants" to be connected differently even among the ones in the same batch, brand and manufacturer.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on November 16, 2010, 12:25:19 AM
Fausto,

I did measure a brand new unused capacitor and the new one had - on the can
measured against the two shorted wires. My bigger capacitors are all used or
guttered from old PC power supplies and those has + on the can measured against
the - wire.

Best result for the self charging effect is to short both capacitor wires together
and then measure between wires and can. I think I did over hundred of shorts
but the capacitor still climbed back to a small voltage. So the effect IS there.
I will let my NiCad test run over night and measure the voltage tomorrow.

Alex.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: miki02131 on November 16, 2010, 01:14:09 AM
Here is a good tutorial on EC:
 
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/art-c04-electr-cap.htm
 
In particular, pay close attention to the Package Section. I will quote it here for you again:
 
"...The can into which the capacitor section is placed is made of 1100-alloy aluminum, which is of around 99% purity. For 25 to 50 mm (one-inch to two-inch)-diameter capacitors, the wall thickness is 0.022 inches. A butyl rubber gasket is placed on top of the header before the spinning operation, in which the case opening is folded over and pressed into the gasket, forming an effective seal of the system. The package is at the same potential as the electrolyte and cathode during capacitor operation, so when electrolytic capacitors are connected in series, care must be taken to insulate the cases from one another. Although the aluminum electrolytic capacitor case is at the cathode potential, it may not be used for the negative electrical connection because of high electrolyte resistivity and the long effective path from the cathode to the can. If the electrolyte were of much lower resistivity, eliminating the cathode and using the can instead might be a possibility. A safety vent is provided in capacitors so that the capacitor may relieve excessive pressure buildup in a controlled manner. This occurrence is known as venting, and is considered a failure mode. The vent may be installed as a rubber plug in the header or as a die-set slit impression in the can wall. The pressure at which the capacitor vents is predictable, and is usually designed to occur at about seven atmosphere pressure or even higher. The allowable pressure tends to be higher for small capacitors. After a capacitor vents, the electrolyte may evaporate out until the capacitance diminishes. "
 
After reading this you will quickly realize that the captret and its supposedly effects are complete misunderstandings on the part of non-linear thinkers.
 
I have a few high quality and mil qualified caps available for cheap. Those who are intersted, let me know. First come, first serve.
 
Miki Out.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2010, 01:47:31 AM
Here is a good tutorial on EC:
 
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/art-c04-electr-cap.htm
 
In particular, pay close attention to the Package Section. I will quote it here for you again:
 
"...The can into which the capacitor section is placed is made of 1100-alloy aluminum, which is of around 99% purity. For 25 to 50 mm (one-inch to two-inch)-diameter capacitors, the wall thickness is 0.022 inches. A butyl rubber gasket is placed on top of the header before the spinning operation, in which the case opening is folded over and pressed into the gasket, forming an effective seal of the system. The package is at the same potential as the electrolyte and cathode during capacitor operation, so when electrolytic capacitors are connected in series, care must be taken to insulate the cases from one another. Although the aluminum electrolytic capacitor case is at the cathode potential, it may not be used for the negative electrical connection because of high electrolyte resistivity and the long effective path from the cathode to the can. If the electrolyte were of much lower resistivity, eliminating the cathode and using the can instead might be a possibility. A safety vent is provided in capacitors so that the capacitor may relieve excessive pressure buildup in a controlled manner. This occurrence is known as venting, and is considered a failure mode. The vent may be installed as a rubber plug in the header or as a die-set slit impression in the can wall. The pressure at which the capacitor vents is predictable, and is usually designed to occur at about seven atmosphere pressure or even higher. The allowable pressure tends to be higher for small capacitors. After a capacitor vents, the electrolyte may evaporate out until the capacitance diminishes. "
 
After reading this you will quickly realize that the captret and its supposedly effects are complete misunderstandings on the part of non-linear thinkers.
 
I have a few high quality and mil qualified caps available for cheap. Those who are intersted, let me know. First come, first serve.
 
Miki Out.



This is all fine and dandy but it still doesn't explain the self charging that i and many others are seeing.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: allcanadian on November 16, 2010, 08:27:37 AM
@void109
Quote
And references quantum tunneling as a possible explanation (and 2nd law violation), pointing to this article:
http://execonn.com/maxwell/maxwells_demon.html
That link is kind of funny :)

Quote
"The second law of thermodynamics says that a closed system's entropy can only stay the same or increase, it can never decrease (5).
First a completely closed system is impossible thus the whole theory is pointless---next

Quote
The law can also be expressed as "It is impossible to construct a heat engine that, operating in a cycle, produces no effect other than the ahsorption of thermal energy from a reservoir and the performance of an equal amount of work." (6)
Now I have to wonder who in the hell came up with this "expression", this is not a fact it is pure nonsense. Again we are dealing with impossible and pointless circumstances in the phrase----"produces no effect other than", there is no know system or device in this universe that we know of that produces singular effects without other reactions or closed systems so again the whole expression is non-sensical---next.

Quote
"it is impossible to construct a cyclical machine that produces no other effect than to transfer heat continuously from one body to another body at a higher temperature." (6)
Here again we have a pointless statement which states the obvious, there are no machines that can produce no other effects, I hope this half-wit didn't win a Nobel for this little bit of genius.
Maybe I can get into the act---

"It is impossible to construct a cyclical machine that produces no other effect than to transfer sheer bullshit continuously from one person to another person having a higher intelligence."
Now where's my damn Nobel!

Regards
AC
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Koen1 on November 16, 2010, 03:03:27 PM
I take it this "Captret" idea is not simply the concept of
connecting a capacitor to an electret via a diode to collect
the charge?

After all, that is a very old concept which has been proven long ago.
Townsend T Brown already showed that in his extensive studies back
in the 1950s, with what he called his "Petrovoltaic cell"/"Gravity detector",
which was basically a composite electret. The charge was collected
on a capacitor via a diode, and he even found that the amount of charge
collected varied over time and could be related directly to gravitational
changes, and so used to detect gravity fluctuations.
So that's the static output of his "Captret" setup that varied with gravity.

How the above setup of a chemical battery with a diode and capacitor
compares to an actual electret is not clear to me. Why use a battery if
the idea is to use an electret?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on November 16, 2010, 03:44:25 PM
@All,

Nicad = 7,60 and still climbing.

Alex.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2010, 04:06:36 PM
@All,

Nicad = 7,60 and still climbing.

Alex.

do you have a diagram of your set up?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on November 16, 2010, 04:48:13 PM
@ibpointless2,

Just scroll up this page. I'm using the setup to the right in my drawing.

Alex.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2010, 05:18:11 PM
Here is the latest captret i've been working on. battery started with 6.31 volts but now is up to 6.37 volts . The other battery voltage went up to 1.661 volts but has been dropping and is now at 1.122 volts. Whats weird about his circuit is that higher charge battery should be the one going down and the lower charge battery should be going up so that they would equal themselves out, but the opposite happens.

The voltage in the capacitor - and the + are also going up too.

I'm thinking about replacing the lower battery voltage one with a super cap to see if i get the same effect.

The lower voltage battery's negative terminal becomes the positive and the higher battery negative terminal becomes the negative.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: lasersaber on November 16, 2010, 06:32:03 PM
Testing the Captret: is this free energy? Part two:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bExjc8PcAQA
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: slapper on November 16, 2010, 07:38:16 PM
Here is a link to a Rex Research article by Gregory Hodowanec.
http://www.rexresearch.com/1hodorhys/remag86/remag86.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/1hodorhys/remag86/remag86.htm)

It basically shows that if you connect a discharged electrolytic (the larger the better) cap
to a high impedance op amp you can see various spikes, peaks and valleys displayed on
the scope over time.

I tested this using some very high impedance op amps that I had available at the time
and there was definitely a lot of activity across the cap that I could not account for.

I did this shortly after the Radio Electronics magazine article was released back in April
of 1986.

Their claim in the article and the link is that the changes in voltage were the result of
changes in gravity or scaler waves.

I'll have to dig that magazine up sometime as I don't throw anything away. But it may
be buried  pretty deep and the link pretty much goes over everything, and then some,
compared to the magazine article.

Take care.

nap
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 16, 2010, 08:10:37 PM
@e2matrix,

I'm currently running a test with a 9V (actually 8,4V) NiCad, 150mAh.
I never could get this to work until I discovered that all my electrolytic
capacitors wanted to be positive at the can measured against the negative
terminal. So I used a ultra fast diode as shown in the attached drawing.
My NiCad has SLOWELY been gaining voltage from 7,36 Volt (yesterday)
to 7,56 Volt (today). I have no conclusions yet if the battery has gained
any real charge. One thing is for sure, I have repeated a shorting test of a capacitor
many times, and it always charge back to approx. 0,05 Volt. So the anomaly
of capacitor self charge is real. All my recharging tests with 9V depleted Duracell
batteries has been negative so far.

Alex.

Thanks for looking into this Groundloop.  It's always great to see input from you on something like this as I know you understand much of this better than most of us.  I haven't read further here in the thread yet to see if you have more results on the battery that seemed to be charging but I am encouraged somewhat by your observations.  It does seem like a rather small increase but as I understand it NiMH and the like might have a very small self recovery for a short period after use but will not continue to recover like an alkaline.  Has this continued to increase (assuming it's still running) ?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2010, 08:31:59 PM
Here is my results so far with my latest captret circuit.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on November 16, 2010, 08:32:37 PM
@e2matrix,

Yes the circuit is still running. The voltage is at 7,60 Volt now and is still going up.
But the voltage climb speed has slowed down. It takes a very long time before I
see a 0,01 Volt increase. I will let the circuit run for many days to see what happen.

I also has designed a CapTret library entry for my electronic CAD program. I then designed
the attached circuit and PCB. My plan is to series enough capacitors to get a high enough
voltage to run a Joule Thief as a boost charger, or just light up some white LEDs.
I plan to put 100 capacitors is series and then 10 PCBs in parallel, totaling 1000 caps.
My PCB can take 100 pcs. 10mm modified capacitors. I have found that the easiest way
to add a new wire to the capacitor is to first remove the plastic covering, add a wire
to the bare metal, and then use a heat shrink tube plastic over the wire.

I will be a LOT of work to modify 1000 capacitors, but heck, someone have to try this.

Alex.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Sprocket on November 16, 2010, 09:38:59 PM
My 2 cents - just had a play with a few caps, yes, I get the 'flash' the led using the capacitor case & the positive terminal, followed by another when the led is powered from the terminals themselves - so a successful replication!!!

Unfortunately, when you monitor the voltage across the cap while simultaneously powering the led from the capacitor case, you can clearly see the voltage drop rapidly - so there is no doubt (in my mind anyway) that the 'effect' is simply a result of leakage.  Also, if you charge the cap to just above the turn-on voltage of the led (say 1.8V) you still get the led to light the 'normal' way (across the capacitor terminals) but nothing from across the capacitor case - not surprising as the case<->positive terminal voltage only goes to about 1V.  The known-about effect of the self-charging caps has always interested me though  Otherwise, moving on...
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on November 16, 2010, 09:50:03 PM
@Sprocket,

Here is a test for you. Short both wires of the capacitor. Measure the voltage
between the two shorted wires and the can. Short out the wires and the can.
Measure the voltage again. Now repeat that as many times as you can.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2010, 10:59:12 PM
Here is my simple home made captret.

What you need:

aluminum foil
pop bottle
salt
water

I have it hooked up to a dead 12 volt battery and the outer case (-) to top positive it is whats inside the battery (5.40 volts) but the outer case to captret connection (o) it is little lower (5.37 volts)

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2010, 11:44:56 PM
Now we're getting somewhere.

I made a new homemade captret but this time much different. I took another pop bottle and cut the top off. placed aluminum foil around the outside and aluminium foil around the inside, completely around. Then made a small strip of aluminum foil and hung it from the top down to the middle.

To sum it up
The negative (the outside) is the same size as the captret (around the inside), but the positive is smaller then both and its in middle with the captret foil but not touching it.

So what happen?
The battery has 5.39 volts in it, but when you read the negative and the captret(O) it reads 5.41 volts. And of course when you read the - to + of the capacitor it reads 5.39 volts just like whats in the battery.

It seems we can increase the voltage, kind of like a step up transformer.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Sprocket on November 17, 2010, 12:13:10 AM
@Groundloop - Guess I should have read more of the thread before posting (I assume this had already been posted) - that's quite intriguing!

For the record, using a 1000uF cap, after shorting and about 5 sec, the voltage is already over 0.1V, after about 30sec it is over 0.13V, using a digital meter, so despite the 10Meg loading.

I also noticed that the rate of change is temperature-dependent - grasping the capacitor tightly in your (warm) hand sees the voltage shoot up, (relatively speaking!) release it and it falls back down again.  Interesting...
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 17, 2010, 12:24:36 AM
Ok, you don't need to put salt into it you only need water. Salt might corrode the aluminium foil. Thanks electricity! :)

The newest captret has a smaller negative on the outside and about the same size positive in the middle. The captret part is bigger then both. The voltage in battery is 5.38 volts, but negative to captret it goes up to 5.50 volts. So the bigger the captret foil and the smaller the negative and positive the higher the voltage.

This could be where the self charging is coming from, because you need higher voltage to charge and thats what the captret is doing.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: tak22 on November 17, 2010, 12:34:36 AM
@Sprocket

You may find that it's more pressure dependent than temperature. Try the same experiment again but eliminate temp from the equation either by insulating your hand or use an alternate pressure method.

tak

I also noticed that the rate of change is temperature-dependent - grasping the capacitor tightly in your (warm) hand sees the voltage shoot up, (relatively speaking!) release it and it falls back down again.  Interesting...
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on November 17, 2010, 01:06:24 AM
Hi everyone!  ;D

how about pulsing a tiny coil with this captret?
i'm looking for a strong self induce energy and charge the battery.

just a wild think  ;D

great discovery  ;D

I think Tom bearden has a version of this discovery too.
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/static%20poynting%20gen.htm

i hope this vid will help us a little, some kind of a little related.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tgdhTpz230


 
;D
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Sprocket on November 17, 2010, 01:45:55 AM
@Sprocket

You may find that it's more pressure dependent than temperature. Try the same experiment again but eliminate temp from the equation either by insulating your hand or use an alternate pressure method.

tak

I have held it in a small vice and blew on it and the voltage also went up, stopped and it fell - that could be moisture-related but I think it has more to do with temp.

Anyway it's a moot point methinks - after trying a few more caps I found to my horror that the 'effect' is only really relevant with a single one, all others climb to a measly 20-30mV. Sooo...  I spent the last hour  desoldering a dozen or so more from a bust TV set - result, nada, zero, zip.  They all at most increase to 20-30mV...

So I have just ONE cap that shoots up to 140mV, all the rest, nothing!  I'm discouraged...
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2010, 05:18:28 AM
@Sprocket,

>>They all at most increase to 20-30mV

And that is the point, they ALL self charge. The next test is to try to get rid
of the 20mV. How many times do you need to short out the capacitor to get
it to zero volt. One time? Ten times? Hundreds of times? Is it possible
at all to get to zero volt? So after N times of discharge into a load, you capacitor
still wants to climb to 20mV. Every time you discharge you get Volt times current (V*I).

What I want to find out with my tests is how BIG that number "N" is.

Groundloop.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Sprocket on November 17, 2010, 04:35:29 PM
@Groundloop - Yes I don't deny there seems to be a voltage increase across all of them, but I'm disappointed that it so small an increase - particularly as my first 'confirmation' was with a capacitor that produces 10-30 times more voltage!  I actually got another identical one that seems to produce the same effect - both came from the same computer power-supply - but complicated by the fact that I can't short out the terminals as one of them broke off...

I also now see why your schematic uses so many capacitors! :)  Regarding the shorting, I must have shorted it 50 or so times and didn't notice any decrease in rate of voltage increase - but that was with the 'odd' capacitor...

PS - The problem I have with this and charging batteries is that it takes substantial current for this, whereas this seems to be all volts, no current.  Much better stick a solar cell on you batteries, that definitely works...
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on November 17, 2010, 05:08:40 PM
I found the below quote on Keelynet.com while researching electrets for another project from an article titled, Electrets for Power Q&A, http://keelynet.com/electret.htm

Quote from: Electrets for Power
I can take a simple circuit that charges 2 capacitors in parallel from a dead battery and then connect the capacitors in series and discharges them back into the battery. Although no new energy is put into the battery some of the batteries potential chemical energy in the battery is converted and the battery will appear to be fully charged. The charging pulses from our controller (or the spark gap-coil) is closer to the double capacitor circuit than it is to a normal battery charger (DC).

Likewise, the captret is more than likely closer to the double capacitor circuit than it is to a normal battery charger.  I hope this is not the case.  Lasersaber video clearly shows the capacitor/captret needs to be fed pulses of energy from a battery in order to keep the LED continuously lit.  If the captret was producing more out than in, then the capacitor wouldn't need pulses of external energy from a battery and the captret would be self-sufficient.  IMO, the captret is not self-sufficient at this stage, thus it's not OU, and any claims of such is misleading. 

The captret needs to be researched though.  I posted information earlier about negative impedance and it appears to have been ignored.  It would be interesting to know how the captret would perform with some of the circuits contained in the negative impedance article.  The information on negative impedance wasn't to try and explain the effect.  The information was posted to improve and take the captret forward and into a new direction in hopes of  making it self-sufficient.  Let's not limit our thinking to only lighting LED's, but instead try to think much bigger.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: e2matrix on November 17, 2010, 06:16:56 PM
@Sprocket,

>>They all at most increase to 20-30mV

And that is the point, they ALL self charge. The next test is to try to get rid
of the 20mV. How many times do you need to short out the capacitor to get
it to zero volt. One time? Ten times? Hundreds of times? Is it possible
at all to get to zero volt? So after N times of discharge into a load, you capacitor
still wants to climb to 20mV. Every time you discharge you get Volt times current (V*I).

What I want to find out with my tests is how BIG that number "N" is.

Groundloop.

That is fascinating how fast it recharges on a 330uf cap I've got with both leads shorted (between the 2 leads and the case).  It runs up around 150 mv.  However using a Fluke 87 on the microamp range which goes out to 1/10 of a microamp I'm seeing 0.0 microamps.  Unfortunately even 200 volts x 0.0 microamps is going to still be about zero power and I suspect not very useful unless there is a unique way to extract power?  Maybe a setup like you are proposing with a 1000 caps may show something different if it can be shown to charge a battery to useful power that can be repeatedly used or if it can run a joule thief.  Best of luck in your tests. 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2010, 07:56:26 PM
@Sprocket,

If there is volt and you short that volt into a load then there is current.
(This current may be very small but it is still current.)
You are correct when you say that it takes substantial current to charge a battery.
But that is not the point. The point is that if I can light ONE led directly (or via
a JT) and the light NEVER goes out, then the capacitor self charge effect is a free
energy device.

@e2matrix,

You need to connect a high Ohm resistor across you wires to measure the constant
current flow out of a self charging capacitor. Try a 10 Mega Ohm. Then calculate
the current flowing. If there was no current then how is it possible to blink a LED
from the effect.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Ultra Capacitors Replace Batterys -- Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: greenv on November 28, 2010, 07:21:59 PM
http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/the-charge-of-the-ultra-capacitors/1
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Magnethos on December 03, 2010, 12:10:46 AM
@Sprocket,

If there is volt and you short that volt into a load then there is current.
(This current may be very small but it is still current.)
You are correct when you say that it takes substantial current to charge a battery.
But that is not the point. The point is that if I can light ONE led directly (or via
a JT) and the light NEVER goes out, then the capacitor self charge effect is a free
energy device.

@e2matrix,

You need to connect a high Ohm resistor across you wires to measure the constant
current flow out of a self charging capacitor. Try a 10 Mega Ohm. Then calculate
the current flowing. If there was no current then how is it possible to blink a LEDfrom the effect.[/]
Groundloop.

That thing is called Radiant Energy. As you may know, radiant energy is a wattless manifestation of electrical energy. It's also called "displacement current" and that kind of energy doesn't involves electron flow. Just pure voltage. And that pure voltage can perform work but it cannot charge a battery.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on December 03, 2010, 08:49:48 AM
That thing is called Radiant Energy. As you may know, radiant energy is a wattless manifestation of electrical energy. It's also called "displacement current" and that kind of energy doesn't involves electron flow. Just pure voltage. And that pure voltage can perform work but it cannot charge a battery.

Hi there!  ;D

ELECTRON has the nature effect of repel and attraction.

A radiant energy is a balance thing, then therefore anything that is moving is seeking for balance because of the effect of attraction acting as a vacuum, and as it flows then it performs energy, and therefore as the facts says that we should make a strong disturbance or make a strong rung for us to disturb the radiant energy so that we can use it and that is AC of tesla.

i think in order for a lamp to produce light, then there should be an electron flow, cause its the flow of electron that makes friction in the conductor for it to glow ok! 'Collision'

It is considered wattless because our meter cannot anymore measure or reach that energy, but still it is a combination of current and voltage, and sometimes because of very very high voltage, the led or lamp lights without ground because the high voltage goes back and forth very fast and make use of the electron of the conductor from start to end of the light bulb's tail to move very very little and that produce lights.

Yes! it cannot charge a battery because it has only very little current.
To charge a battery we have to induce electron in the battery and pulling some protons, so therefore as electrons grows in numbers then attraction, voltage, currents also grows, so therefore protons are being suck from the other side and the source is empty space or wire connected to it just to balance the sucking effect of the growing electrons. and that makes an unbalance source of energy and really really want to seek balance.  ;D

Sorry sir it is not my intention to block you but that is what i  understand.   


noicaro L. Otits reporting  ;D
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Magnethos on December 03, 2010, 09:13:57 PM
Don't worry about blocking me, we're just only discussing some interesting things. I will explain my opinion also.  :)

After reading some different things about this field, I cannot fully understand what an electron is. Ok, I've read the classic books about physics and electronics but it's not a fully or enought detailed explanation that I can understand.
As you know, there is a thing called Radiant energy. And that radiant energy is only composed of current-free energy. That means, it only flows the electric field (the magnetic field is hypothetically absent).
So, E = M x C² is not correct for the radiant part, since M = 0 (there is no amperage flow).
Radiant energy is expressed as  E = ∆T x C², where T means Time. Radiant flow is a flow of SUB-electronic (smaller than electron) electric particles.

I think the electron is a vortex flow. Radiant energy flow is not measurable with classic meters, but it's claimed that there are some special meters that are capable of measuring it.

Attraction means vortexes rotating in the same direction. Repulsion is a phenomenon that involves that one vortex is rotating in the opositte direction of the other.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on December 13, 2010, 01:58:44 AM
@Sprocket,

>>They all at most increase to 20-30mV

And that is the point, they ALL self charge. The next test is to try to get rid
of the 20mV. How many times do you need to short out the capacitor to get
it to zero volt. One time? Ten times? Hundreds of times? Is it possible
at all to get to zero volt? So after N times of discharge into a load, you capacitor
still wants to climb to 20mV. Every time you discharge you get Volt times current (V*I).

What I want to find out with my tests is how BIG that number "N" is.

Groundloop.

Hi Groundloop,
I just also tested it with a 2700 uF 35 Volt electrolytic cap.
The cap charges up to around 20 to 50 millivolts, depending
on if I touch it or not.
Then when shorted only very quickly, it recharges fast.
But when you short it out for longer time, it need also much longer to recharge again.
So the trick is to extract only short portion of it , so it can  recover faster.

Also in my case only the case and the negative pole of the capacitor are the real
contacts that have the effect.

I just also made another test
like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIHaXey1DQ

I tested this just with my 2700 uF 35 Volts electrolytic cap with my 3 Watts 12 Volts LED lamp.
I fed this from a 10 Volts DC Nokia mobile Phone charger. The Captret drops the voltage from 10 Volts to around 8 Volts at the LED and the LED lamp is much darker then. You can also connect the plus of the power supply also directly to the plus of the LED lamp and not connect it to the cap plus pole->same effect.
Then the cap works as an additional load resistor..

BUT: the Wattmeter went this way from 3Watts input and cos phi 0.48 to
0 Watts and cos phi=1 !!!
So I don´t draw any power from the grid and still get light output....

But the light output is much lower this way.
I will try it also with a 47 uF cap as Ibpointless2 did and report back..
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 13, 2010, 03:14:21 AM
Hi Groundloop,
I just also tested it with a 2700 uF 35 Volt electrolytic cap.
The cap charges up to around 20 to 50 millivolts, depending
on if I touch it or not.
Then when shorted only very quickly, it recharges fast.
But when you short it out for longer time, it need also much longer to recharge again.
So the trick is to extract only short portion of it , so it can  recover faster.

Also in my case only the case and the negative pole of the capacitor are the real
contacts that have the effect.

I just also made another test
like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIHaXey1DQ

I tested this just with my 2700 uF 35 Volts electrolytic cap with my 3 Watts 12 Volts LED lamp.
I fed this from a 10 Volts DC Nokia mobile Phone charger. The Captret drops the voltage from 10 Volts to around 8 Volts at the LED and the LED lamp is much darker then. You can also connect the plus of the power supply also directly to the plus of the LED lamp and not connect it to the cap plus pole->same effect.
Then the cap works as an additional load resistor..

BUT: the Wattmeter went this way from 3Watts input and cos phi 0.48 to
0 Watts and cos phi=1 !!!
So I don´t draw any power from the grid and still get light output....

But the light output is much lower this way.
I will try it also with a 47 uF cap as Ibpointless2 did and report back..
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.


Hi,

Yes i know about the self charging effect, thats why i call it the captret (cap meaning capacitor and tret meaning electret). I also made a video to show this effect of quick pulses to see if i could drain the captret. i was able to flash the LED for a long time, so long that i got tired of it. heres the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqC8nAjoAVc

My captret hooked up to a 1.5 watt 120 volt LED bulb can run on 0.00 watts after 15 minutes of running. Using a 1uF 400 volt capacitor. Also whats neat is when you disconnect the power the captret will continue to light the LEDs for a couple seconds longer. Considering its only a 1uF capacitor thats amazing!


And its common that you can do your setup of using the case and the negative because every capacitors different. But i do find it funny because i use to think the case was grounded to the negative but my ideas have change and the case is merely another lead just like the + and -. The captret makes a single capacitor into 3 capacitors. + and -, + and case, - and case, all can have there own voltages on them. All are affected by each other in a good way and a bad way. Shorting the + and case will drain the + and the - but it will reach a voltage and start to climb back up. As to why it self charges? could be how its related to the electret?

Those short sharp pulse that you talk about are very important. Acutely short sharp high voltage pulses are the best. Thats why it works so well with the joule thief and pulse motors. My goal is to get a captret to run a pulse motor, because i know how to even further the efficiency of the captret but a pulse motor is needed.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on December 13, 2010, 03:38:11 AM
@ibpointless2
Yes, I just hooked up 2 x 2700 uF 35 Volts caps in parallel and the light
now is a bit brighter, but the digital Wattmeter still displays 0 Watts and 0 amps and Cos Phi= 1.

So with still bigger caps, so more uF  in parallel the light would probably still be brighter.

I wonder if I am somehow destroying the electrolytic caps ?
Maybe I am galvanically destroying the electrolyte solution inside ?
But the caps don´t get hot at all... they are still cold..

The caps just are connected only as a preload resistor this way in series with the LED lamp.
From their case to the 2 shorted pins of the cap, there is a positive voltage of 2.12 Volts at this 2 x 2700uf=5400 uF parallel cap.

So does this voltage destroy the electrolytic solution internally ?

I just measured the current at the lamp, it is only 3.2 milliAmps and the Voltage at the lamp is 8.12 Volts DC.

So the input power into the lamp is only about 26 MilliWatts now on the lamp..

So this is probably why the digital Wattmeter does not display any input power.
It is just below its error range...

Best regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on December 14, 2010, 12:18:52 AM
@All,

I finally got around and soldered my first (of 10) CapTret boards.
The board has 100 pcs. 220uF 35V electrolytic capacitors that
has both + and - shorted out as one connection, and a new wire
added to the aluminum can with conductive glue and solder
as the second connection. Then all the modified capacitors are
connect in series.

The series string of capacitors self charge up to approx. 1,8 Volt.
When I load the board with my volt meter then the voltage
drops fast to some millivolt. So the current capability is very low.

I will do some tests on this single board to see if I can tap some
useful energy out of the board before I continue solder the other
boards. It will take some time because it is a slow and boring
process to solder and modify all those capacitors.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Mk1 on December 14, 2010, 12:35:51 AM
@all

First off thanks for all the nice work , everyone.


I was thinking since the power from the battery is not really leaving it , maybe a charged cap could replace the battery ? Sorry if irrelevant .

I will need to look into making my dual jt circuit work on it one captret at each end , maybe there is a way to bounce the voltage up faster .

Again my apologies for not having time to go trough everything .

   
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on December 15, 2010, 01:38:31 AM
Hi Groundloop,
well done.

By the way, what kind of conductive glue are you using ?

Is this some kind of silver paint ?

Please post the brand name and how the conductive glue works.
Is there some graphite in it or is it silver based ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on December 15, 2010, 07:20:40 AM
Stefan,

I'm using a silver based conducting glue from Circuit Works called CW2200STP.
The glue dries in minutes at room temperature. It is also solderable at low temps.

Yesterday I connected a 1uF (low loss MMK capacitor) to the 100 capacitor board.
This morning the capacitor had been recharged to 2,8 Volt. Tested power by connecting
a LED over the capacitor. The LED did blink once. This confirms that the the self
charge effect in electrolytic capacitors is real and can provide power.

This is the first free energy (although very low energy) device I have seen in my 10
years of research. So now I need to solder 9 more boards to be put in parallel to
increase the current output. This will take some time because the job of soldering the
capacitors takes 4 solder pr. capacitor. So one board with 100 capacitors is 400
solder joints. It is a boring and slow process to solder those boards. :-(

Alex.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: tak22 on December 15, 2010, 07:49:32 AM

Impressive perseverance, for the 1,000s of solder joints for this project, and the
10 years of effort and assistance to others!

This is the first free energy (although very low energy) device I have seen in my 10
years of research.

Hey, I need the solder practice so I guess I better order up a few hundred boards and a
truckload of capacitors. Can I use a larger cap value and lessen the work?

tak
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on December 15, 2010, 09:08:01 AM
@tak22,

I will not rekomend to people all this work and cost. :-)

I think we will get much higher energy if we make the capacitors ourself.
One way to do it to use rolls of aluminium and rolls of paper in a 10 liter
panit can. The electrolyte can be Glycol (anti freez for cars). Please
read the thread over at EF forum:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6684-captret-perpetual-light-dead-batteries.html

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on December 15, 2010, 11:18:34 AM
I have read the whole topic: interesting effect, it seems the energy from the captret is complety radiant, load running cold, capacitor not heat, self recharching. Radiant energy is manifested when PF is 0, so you have pure Voltage or pure Current. This is called also cold electricity, curiously this is very close to the Rotoverter anomaly, and LCR resonance in AC system...
Radiant energy can perform work if well tuned. The pure Voltage can charge capacitor and perform work, the pure current can magnetize an inductor without voltage, this is the secret of FE, power factor = 0 can perform work...
I think we rediscover the Tesla work's and theories 100 years ago, we have lost 100 years of scientific research...

One bemol: can anyone verify if you don't destroy the electrolite by a classical chimical reaction using the capacitor in this way ?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 16, 2010, 03:44:48 AM
For those that are experiencing the self charging effect with your batteries I think there might be a simple explanation as to why its happening. Well i wouldn't call it a simple explanation but I'll give a simple demonstration. The explanation or demo is simple but as to why is not so simple.

I'll post a video as to what i mean. I've been running a test since October and many of you might be surprised as to what is happening.

Please stay tuned to http://www.youtube.com/user/ibpointless2

The video will be called the secret behind the self charging captret.

Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 16, 2010, 01:08:31 PM
If the positive lead from the meter has been there since that date, that is the source of the energy that feeds the capacitor to charge the battery.

The meter has a 9 volt battery inside.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 16, 2010, 01:43:53 PM
If the positive lead from the meter has been there since that date, that is the source of the energy that feeds the capacitor to charge the battery.

The meter has a 9 volt battery inside.

The meter is never left connected to the setup. The setup has been sitting closed up in that cardboard box since October 28 2010. I know better to leave a meter connected to a setup as it could lead to false results.

It is what it is, a self charging battery with only a capacitor hooked up. You can try it yourself if you want, 9 volts work better than any other battery due to their low power they hold (faster charging). Mine started out at 7.90 and i was able to see 7.91 after a few days. Make sure to use a battery that has been sitting not hooked up to anything for at least 24 hours so that you can get a good standing voltage.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 16, 2010, 01:47:32 PM
Accept my apologies!

Jesus
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 16, 2010, 01:59:33 PM
Accept my apologies!

Jesus

Its ok, I didn't mean sound rude i was just merely telling you how i have it setup.  ;D

Have a good day.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 16, 2010, 02:14:34 PM
Is this correct?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on December 16, 2010, 02:17:06 PM
@ibpointless2,

My tests with a 8,4 Volt 160mAh NiCad battery confirms you findings.
I started out with 7,36 Volt in the battery on 15/11-2010 and the voltage
did stop climbing on 21/11-2010 at 7,64 Volt. The voltage climb was
fast at the beginning and then slower and slower as time did go by.

I'm currently running a test where I have connected my 100 capacitor board
via a Germanium diode to a 1,2 Volt 700mAh NiCad battery.

[EDIT] NiCad charge test started 16/12-2010 at 1407, battery rest voltage was 1,135 Volt.

@nievesoliveras

Only time will tell if this works or not.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 16, 2010, 02:26:51 PM
@groundloop

We expect that your work efforts will be crowned with a big success!

Jesus
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 17, 2010, 12:08:59 AM
Is this correct?

Yes, its that simple.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 17, 2010, 01:28:07 AM
Thank you @bpointles2!
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 17, 2010, 02:14:31 AM
I also like to say that I did the same capacitor experiment again but instead of a 9 volt battery i used a capacitor. One big capacitor and one little one. the big and little capacitor were left sitting over night to get a official standing voltage.

the big capacitor had .874 volts and the little one had .168 volts. When i connected them up positive to positive and negative to negative the voltage on both went to .846. Now for the crazy part, the voltage after 12 hours is now .902 volts. Thats .902 in both the big and little capacitor.

Where did that extra voltage come from?

I'll post a youtube video of it soon.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on December 17, 2010, 02:16:52 AM
Hi,
I just tested myself this setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbrVHWJwpc

but with just my 2700 uF 35 Volts cap.

This principle works, but you basically transfer the charge from the main capacitor
to the "stray capacitor" which is the case versus the positive pin.

When you connect the negative pin with the case, you transfer charges from there to the
case<->positive lead "stray capacitor".

The most effective range is , when the main cap has about 2 Volts and if you use a red LED with about
a threshold voltage of around 1.6 Volts.

Then you can somehow maintain the charge in the main capacitor and recharge many times
"the stray capacitor" from around 1.33 Volts to again 1.99 and then through the LED this
"the stray capacitor" is again discharged.

But after a while the main capacitor is also going down and this effect will die.

This really needs a more quantitative analysis by measuring the energies going back and forth
to see, if there is really coming more energy out this way.

ibpointless used a 10 Farad supercap for this, so this seems to hold much longer the
main voltage.
Also it might have a better "stray capacitor" than my 2700 uF cap.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S: Groundloop, great success, I also guess it would be much easier to selfbuild
a few caps. Maybe one could also use a "3 plate" cap with just build from Alifoil
with trashbin plastic foil between it.
These trashbin plastic foils are very electrostatic and if you make yourself such
a 3 foil cap and heat it up in an oil bath and apply high voltage to it during
cooling, you could make it into some kind of electret capacitor which
probably will better selfcharge later on when used like this here.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 17, 2010, 02:26:49 AM
Hi,
I just tested myself this setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbrVHWJwpc

but with just my 2700 uF 35 Volts cap.

This principle works, but you basically transfer the charge from the main capacitor
to the "stray capacitor" which is the case versus the positive pin.

When you connect the negative pin with the case, you transfer charges from there to the
case<->positive lead "stray capacitor".

The most effective range is , when the main cap has about 2 Volts and if you use a red LED with about
a threshold voltage of around 1.6 Volts.

Then you can somehow maintain the charge in the main capacitor and recharge many times
"the stray capacitor" from around 1.33 Volts to again 1.99 and then through the LED this
"the stray capacitor" is again discharged.

But after a while the main capacitor is also going down and this effect will die.

This really needs a more quantitative analysis by measuring the energies going back and forth
to see, if there is really coming more energy out this way.

ibpointless used a 10 Farad supercap for this, so this seems to hold much longer the
main voltage.
Also it might have a better "stray capacitor" than my 2700 uF cap.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S: Groundloop, great success, I also guess it would be much easier to selfbuild
a few caps. Maybe one could also use a "3 plate" cap with just build from Alifoil
with trashbin plastic foil between it.
These trashbin plastic foils are very electrostatic and if you make yourself such
a 3 foil cap and heat it up in an oil bath and apply high voltage to it during
cooling, you could make it into some kind of electret capacitor which
probably will better selfcharge later on when used like this here.

The trick is standing voltage. Take a 10 farad super cap and charge up to 2 volts or more if you capacitor will allow it. Now let the capacitor sit untouched and not connected to anything for at least 12 hours.

Have you tried this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqC8nAjoAVc
I think i charged it up the night before to around 6 volts, its a 220uF 50 capacitor.

I'll be posting a new video about this spontaneous charging in capacitors on youtube in a few.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: The Observer on December 17, 2010, 06:58:09 AM
ibpointless,

You said,
Quote
I'll be posting a new video about this spontaneous charging in capacitors on youtube in a few.

Are you talking about the effect of a previously charged dielectric capacitor charging itself ? (no battery connected after a dead short)

      If so, there is a name for it.
      It is called Di-electric Absorption .
      Of Course, it is explained away as some remnant charge from the previous charging.

      However, after noticing this effect in the same 330uf  300 V Cap for over a year... I think there is more to it.
                     (it charges to over 3 volts in a few weeks by itself... maybe to 1 volt in a day or so)
              --> My take is that a permanent electric field is set up which moves electrons for 'free'. <--

I appreciate all you have done, as well as the other contributors.

Best Regards,
                    The Observer
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 17, 2010, 12:08:11 PM
ibpointless,

You said,
Are you talking about the effect of a previously charged dielectric capacitor charging itself ? (no battery connected after a dead short)

      If so, there is a name for it.
      It is called Di-electric Absorption .
      Of Course, it is explained away as some remnant charge from the previous charging.

      However, after noticing this effect in the same 330uf  300 V Cap for over a year... I think there is more to it.
                     (it charges to over 3 volts in a few weeks by itself... maybe to 1 volt in a day or so)
              --> My take is that a permanent electric field is set up which moves electrons for 'free'. <--

I appreciate all you have done, as well as the other contributors.

Best Regards,
                    The Observer


I see dielectric absorption is when you deplete a capacitor and the voltage bounces back up. In my experiments i try to get rid of dielectric absorption by letting the capacitor sit over night so that it can get a standing voltage in it. I don't think dielectric absorption can explain this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbn4vede2us
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Groundloop on December 17, 2010, 04:54:32 PM
@All,

It is not dielectric absorption. I have already shorted out the + and - wires
on my setup and my capacitors are brand new. I have never charged them.
Still I get a repeatable charge up of voltage in the capacitors after each
discharge. Since my capacitors are shorted all the time then there is
no potential voltage difference between the two capacitor plates, only between
the two shorted wires=roll of aluminum and the aluminum can.

ibpointless2 have discovered and shared with the rest of us an important
effect about electrolytic capacitors, and I thank him for that.

Alex.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: The Observer on December 17, 2010, 08:10:57 PM
Ibpointless,

You said,
Quote
i try to get rid of dielectric absorption by letting the capacitor sit over night so that it can get a standing voltage in it.

Because I have observed the 'Dielectric Absorption' effect in a Cap that hasn't been charged in a year,
discharged many times,
I'm skeptical that you can ever get rid of the voltage. (which is good news)

I'm not being a nay-sayer however...
I think you are brilliant and have great work ethic when it comes to discovering USEs (Unrecognized Sources of Energy).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         I have an idea you are welcome to play off of. (or anyone else)
                                            Shortly,

                          The Camera Circuit Captret

1. A simple disposable camera circuit can charge a 300 uf  350 V cap..
    to ~ 100 V...
    in about 1 second...
    from a 1.5 V battery !
 * I believe this to be a very interesting feat in itself, but anyways.*

2. If the Captret works off the charge held inside a Cap,
    then perhaps an efficient way to charge the Captret from a 1.5 V Battery,
    would be to use the Camera Circuit (intermittently charging the Captret with a voltage regulator).
    (it does come with just about everything needed, and all hooked up... Battery... Circuit... and 1 'Large' Cap)

    - note Use Rubber Gloves... any disposable camera could be used as a weapon due to the high voltages.

3. You can get just about as many FREE Disposable Cameras as you want by going to Walgreens and the like.
    Kindly ask photo clerk if you can take some out of the recycle box. (obviously, the film is not in the cameras).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Groundloop,

Thanks for the post and your work.
I thought I'd throw that (Dielectric Absorption) out there since it has not been mentioned yet.
I realize that there is something else at play here, but the reasons for that and Dielectric Absorption may be related.
That is, an electric field is setup which moves electrons for 'free' (my theory).

Perhaps a Camera Circuit could be used to Charge your Setup from       a Small Voltage Source (1.5 V)..
                                                                                                       to a High Voltage in a very short time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Regards,
                     The Observer
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on December 17, 2010, 10:17:20 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbn4vede2us


Seems the 2 caps in parallel have increased their stored energy of around 200 mikroWattsseconds, when they were at the end at 0.902 Volts together.

Could be, that the contact material of the zinced croco cables with the copper leads
or soldering of the leads produces very small diode effects
because of the dissimular metals and this rectfies
the RF from mobile phones and other background radiation  that is captured by the cables.

Would be interesting to see, if the same will hapen,
if you solder the 2 caps together in parallel and just charge them up to around  0.948 Volts
and let them stay there  for a few hours and then see, if they will
go again over 0.9 Volts ?
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on December 18, 2010, 03:07:24 AM
The Electret Effect, http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:The_Electret_Effect

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Sprocket on December 22, 2010, 05:23:29 PM
For what it's worth, I tried the electrolytic across the battery idea - a charged 9V NiMH that was left standing for a few days.  My cap was one of my 'best performers' for developing a voltage off the case with both normal leads shorted, 1000uF 16V rating.

Start Voltage 9.59V
Day 1            9.54V
Day 2            9.48V
Day 3            9.46V

It doesn't look promising...
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 26, 2010, 02:50:56 AM
For what it's worth, I tried the electrolytic across the battery idea - a charged 9V NiMH that was left standing for a few days.  My cap was one of my 'best performers' for developing a voltage off the case with both normal leads shorted, 1000uF 16V rating.

Start Voltage 9.59V
Day 1            9.54V
Day 2            9.48V
Day 3            9.46V

It doesn't look promising...


once a capacitor is full it becomes a open circuit and no power should be consumed.

Set the captret idea aside and take a capacitor that is less than 100uF and is above 35 volts and hook it up to a 9 volt battery; positive of the capacitor goes to the positive of the capacitor and the negative of the battery goes to the negative of the capacitor. Now leave it in a place where it can be touched or moved around, make a good place for it to sit for a month or so. Be sure to record the standing voltage on the battery before connecting it.

The voltage on the battery should go down when you connect the capacitor, but should slowly climb back up to the standing voltage. Just leave it for a few weeks to a month and record the voltage daily if you can.

If the voltage goes down over time then something is wrong, it should stay the same or go up due to the fact that the capacitor is full and is now a open circuit.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on December 27, 2010, 03:08:19 AM
Hi everyone This is Titus good day and merry new year  ;D

I just drop by and i want to share some weird thinking of mine that, what if we change the cover of the Battery instead of a plastic then change it to metal then place a connection to that metal plate cover as third source like captret?

if in captret give us short free energy then i think maybe i'm not yet sure but just a wild thinking, battery can give us more energy.  8)

AND if we are lucky this is another door ok.  8)

MERRY CHRISTMASS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR  :)

OTITS L. NOICARO reporting  ;D   
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on December 27, 2010, 04:25:14 AM
Captret updates.

I have been also testing this "captret" and in one of my experiments I am trying to utilize the "excess energy" in short periods of time directly to a battery. I simply switch from 2 sets of captrets back and forth into a lead acid battery.

Voltages are my measurement for the "state of charge of the battery". An LED is used when the "excess energy" is directed back to the driving batteries, in essence getting free light for no measurable cost.

My premise is that if the battery voltage does not go down but goes up in a long run (at least a week) I think I can consider the voltage as a first proof of free energy (at least enough proof to show that the battery is not being consumed).

Diagram attached. Video will be posted soon on my youtube channel.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 27, 2010, 01:06:03 PM
Captret updates.

I have been also testing this "captret" and in one of my experiments I am trying to utilize the "excess energy" in short periods of time directly to a battery. I simply switch from 2 sets of captrets back and forth into a lead acid battery.

Voltages are my measurement for the "state of charge of the battery". An LED is used when the "excess energy" is directed back to the driving batteries, in essence getting free light for no measurable cost.

My premise is that if the battery voltage does not go down but goes up in a long run (at least a week) I think I can consider the voltage as a first proof of free energy (at least enough proof to show that the battery is not being consumed).

Diagram attached. Video will be posted soon on my youtube channel.

Fausto.

Just remember that if you are using an external power to activate S1 then you dont have free energy at all.

Jesus
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on December 27, 2010, 03:30:31 PM
Sure. Baby steps my friend. First one see if works than improves on the idea.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Sprocket on December 27, 2010, 11:08:30 PM

once a capacitor is full it becomes a open circuit and no power should be consumed.

Set the captret idea aside and take a capacitor that is less than 100uF and is above 35 volts and hook it up to a 9 volt battery; positive of the capacitor goes to the positive of the capacitor and the negative of the battery goes to the negative of the capacitor. Now leave it in a place where it can be touched or moved around, make a good place for it to sit for a month or so. Be sure to record the standing voltage on the battery before connecting it.

The voltage on the battery should go down when you connect the capacitor, but should slowly climb back up to the standing voltage. Just leave it for a few weeks to a month and record the voltage daily if you can.

If the voltage goes down over time then something is wrong, it should stay the same or go up due to the fact that the capacitor is full and is now a open circuit.

Apart from my cap specs being not in line with your recommendations, I am doing pretty much everything else right.  Are you referring to alkaline/zinc-carbon (ie. non-rechargables) batteries?  Rechargeables won't have a standing voltage 'cos most have an appreciable drop in voltage in relatively short time periods due to their slow constant discharge.

And my rechargeable's voltage keeps falling (as expected) - a few more  days and it's down to 9.37V

I will try with another cap that's more in line with your recommendations though - when I sober-up... :D
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: plengo on December 28, 2010, 03:13:40 AM
I started a new thread about the Captret and Tesla Switch experiment.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10175.msg268501#msg268501

Fausto.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 28, 2010, 03:17:55 PM
I don't think my Water captret is really a water captret, but it does show some capacitor and electret effect it just i don't want to confuse people with names. I name things the way i see it, and the water captret is just water and it acts like a capacitor and a electret so the name might stick. But for the record the water captret and the regular captret are two different thing that happen to be very same, if that makes any sense.

As for the water captret it also seems to be a water battery, well, it's more water battery than any water battery out their. I say this because it seems it might be consuming the water as a power source, the water is being transformed into hydrogen and oxygen from what i'm seeing. And unlike a normal water battery where it has two dissimilar metals and one of the metals is consumed this water captret has the same metals and still produce power without consuming the metals themselves.

So in-fact the water captret are merely batteries, when used produce hydrogen. So that voltage amiplication i was seeing in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGQmHY0ervQ was merely do to the fact that the water captret is a battery that was put in series to give me more voltage. So if you think this who experiment is a bust, you're forgetting that in order to have a water battery you needed two dissimilar metals but yet the water captret is the same metals that use regular old tap water- this is amazing.

The water captrets can be used by them selfs as batteries and they can be hooked in parallel and charge a capacitor too. when you do use them bubbles start to form on the pates and i believe they're hydrogen and oxygen bubbles. Whats even more crazy is that you can short the water captret out and bubbles will start form, so even when shorted its producing power. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITf0zNdNK0M
its crazy to think that you can make hydrogen without any power needed.

So this is what i've seen so far, its easy to copy this experiment and cheap too so please do try yourself.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on December 30, 2010, 12:58:44 AM
As for the water captret it also seems to be a water battery, well, it's more water battery than any water battery out their. I say this because it seems it might be consuming the water as a power source, the water is being transformed into hydrogen and oxygen from what i'm seeing. And unlike a normal water battery where it has two dissimilar metals and one of the metals is consumed this water captret has the same metals and still produce power without consuming the metals themselves.

So in-fact the water captret are merely batteries, when used produce hydrogen. So that voltage amiplication i was seeing in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGQmHY0ervQ was merely do to the fact that the water captret is a battery that was put in series to give me more voltage. So if you think this who experiment is a bust, you're forgetting that in order to have a water battery you needed two dissimilar metals but yet the water captret is the same metals that use regular old tap water- this is amazing.

It's a bust, because you don't need two dissimilar metals in order to have a water battery, as you can see from the below excerpt from the Variable Electrolytic Capacitor publication, http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/varelec.htm

Quote from: Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor Publication

Both electrodes can be aluminum if you want to make a capacitor capable of working with ac voltages.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2010, 01:11:53 AM
It’s all starting to make sense now.

I’ve been playing with a type of water battery that is very different than the ordinary water battery in that it uses the same metals and not dis-similar metals that other water batteries use. With this water battery I’m able to get voltage when both plates are put in water. Both plates are Aluminum foil, ones thicker than the other and the size of them affect it too. With these water batteries they can be shorted out for long periods of time and once you take the short off they still have the same voltage.

So why is this important?

Well if we look at the Capacitor we’ll start seeing some similarities. Both a capacitor and my water battery (water captret) have plates that are the same metal and which is aluminum. Both Hold voltage and the amount of voltage are dependent on the thickness and size. So what happens when you short out a capacitor? There’s a mysterious bounce back of voltage, as if it is just like the water battery (water captret).  So now it’s all making sense, the water battery (water captret) is just a brother (if not clone) of the capacitor. Water captret effect would explain why capacitors gain voltage even though they were shorted out; it’s due to the aluminum plates in the liquid.

Now time for a little more craziness. Those of you who know about me I’ve started this thing called the captret, it’s basically takes one capacitor and gives another Lead by using the case. So the case of a capacitor is aluminum too and at a different size than the aluminum inside the capacitor, and since its aluminum I can use it to get voltage too. Since the water captret is just a capacitor I can easily make it a captret too just by adding another piece of aluminum of different size. So I can have the water captret have one positive plate and two, three, four, or however many negative plates as I want with each producing their own voltage.

This is just must me putting forth why I think capacitors have a spontaneous self-charge on them even when left shorted out. I’ve come to this conclusion due to my studies of the Water captret “water battery” use of similar metals.  Hope this helps others in their confusion with capacitors; it seems they’re much simpler and much more complicated than once thought. Now all we got to do is figure out why two similar metals give a voltage.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: shylo on December 30, 2010, 01:23:45 AM
Hi Ib if the two pieces of foil are not exactly the same mass, one will give to the less to be equall................shylo
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2010, 03:24:31 PM
So why do Captrets and Capacitors seem to have a self charging effect when they are shorted out?

I propose the idea with my Water capterts, basically the same as a Capacitor and can easily be made like a captret. Both the water captret and capacitors and captrets have aluminium plates in them separated by a liquid. Depending on the sizes of the plates and mass will determine the voltage, and better yet the "free energy" from the self charging.

The capacitor is just like a battery, mainly water battery, but a battery none the less. Like a battery it can charge and hold a charge. But when a capacitor is shorted out it can still have voltage in it, but how? It has to do with the aluminium plates in the liquid. The plates are producing the voltage, as to why i'm not fully sure. When a water captret is shorted out it, it  still has voltage still in it, and actually works better when it was left shorted out.

So The reason why So many people see the self charging is very simple, the Captret is a battery. But its not any normal battery, as you see the capacitors can last a long time so the captret can be used as a battery for a long time. Also applying Voltage to the system will give a higher output due to the fact that the captret is a battery and that could be the reason why captret can self charge. So by scaling up i'm going to make Water Captret into water batteries.

I don't mean to destroy my Captret Effect mystery as this is only my Theory of the Captret. I'll look more into the Baptret (Battery, capacitor, electret - i'm playing with words) in future videos.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on December 30, 2010, 05:55:38 PM
The capacitor is just like a battery, mainly water battery, but a battery none the less. Like a battery it can charge and hold a charge. But when a capacitor is shorted out it can still have voltage in it, but how? It has to do with the aluminium plates in the liquid. The plates are producing the voltage, as to why i'm not fully sure. When a water captret is shorted out it, it  still has voltage still in it, and actually works better when it was left shorted out.

There's a thin coating of oxide which forms on the aluminum plates, which forms a virtual diode.  Here's an excerpt from wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier#Electrolytic

Quote from: Wiki

The electrolytic rectifier was an early device from the 1900s that is no longer used. When two different metals are suspended in an electrolyte solution, it can be found that direct current flowing one way through the metals has less resistance than the other direction. These most commonly used an aluminum anode, and a lead or steel cathode, suspended in a solution of tri-ammonium ortho-phosphate.

The rectification action is due to a thin coating of aluminum hydroxide on the aluminum electrode, formed by first applying a strong current to the cell to build up the coating. The rectification process is temperature sensitive, and for best efficiency should not operate above 86 °F (30 °C). There is also a breakdown voltage where the coating is penetrated and the cell is short-circuited. Electrochemical methods are often more fragile than mechanical methods, and can be sensitive to usage variations which can drastically change or completely disrupt the rectification processes.

Similar electrolytic devices were used as lightning arresters around the same era by suspending many aluminium cones in a tank of tri-ammomium ortho-phosphate solution. Unlike the rectifier, above, only aluminium electrodes were used, and used on A.C., there was no polarization and thus no rectifier action, but the chemistry was similar.

The modern electrolytic capacitor, an essential component of most rectifier circuit configurations was also developed from the electrolytic rectifier.

The difference between the term diode and the term rectifier is merely one of usage.  The thin coating of aluminum hydroxide on the aluminum electrode is the virtual diode which has already been brought to your attention by others.  Also, please take note once again from the above quote that both electrodes can be aluminum.  There is no mystery in how the captret or water battery is working.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2010, 06:40:27 PM
There's a thin coating of oxide which forms on the aluminum plates, which forms a virtual diode.  Here's an excerpt from wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier#Electrolytic

The difference between the term diode and the term rectifier is merely one of usage.  The thin coating of aluminum hydroxide on the aluminum electrode is the virtual diode which has already been brought to your attention by others.  Also, please take note once again from the above quote that both electrodes can be aluminum.  There is no mystery in how the captret is working.

GB


What i find weird about the link you sent me is that they only used aluminum plates in AC currents because there was no polarization and thus no rectifier action. I'm getting polarization on the cells, the bigger and thinner one positive and the thick little one is negative. And there original one in the link you sent deals with a water battery type where they use two dissimilar metals to make a diode, which makes sense because of galvanic reaction creates its own voltage. But I'm not using two dissimilar metals i'm using aluminum and i'm getting polarization too unlike what the link said about them using similar metals because they use them in AC currents and mostly used for lightning arresters. I understand what you're saying, both plates can be the same, but why they made them the same was to make it work with AC and i'm not dealing with AC but DC nor am i dealing with diodes or rectifiers. The problem that has yet to be answer is why the same metal plates put into same water would create voltage. That voltage that's created gives us the self charging we see in the captrets and capacitors because in fact they're batteries.

I don't believe the Captret or water captret are rectifiers, but batteries.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on December 30, 2010, 07:07:30 PM

What i find weird about the link you sent me is that they only used aluminum plates in AC currents because there was no polarization and thus no rectifier action. I'm getting polarization on the cells, the bigger and thinner one positive and the thick little one is negative. And there original one in the link you sent deals with a water battery type where they use two dissimilar metals to make a diode, which makes sense because of galvanic reaction creates its own voltage. But I'm not using two dissimilar metals i'm using aluminum and i'm getting polarization too unlike what the link said about them using similar metals because they use them in AC currents and mostly used for lightning arresters. I understand what you're saying, both plates can be the same, but why they made them the same was to make it work with AC and i'm not dealing with AC but DC nor am i dealing with diodes or rectifiers. The problem that has yet to be answer is why the same metal plates put into same water would create voltage. That voltage that's created gives us the self charging we see in the captrets and capacitors because in fact they're batteries.

I don't believe the Captret or water captret are rectifiers, but batteries.

Wrong.  The original one in the link I sent about the water battery says both electrodes can be aluminum.  I suggest you to re-read the link. The thin layer of oxide which forms on the aluminum plate makes it act like a diode. You re-discovered the electrolytic rectifier.  Congratulations!

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2010, 07:21:02 PM
Wrong.  The original one in the link I sent about the water battery says both electrodes can be aluminum.  I suggest you to re-read the link. The thin layer of oxide which forms on the aluminum plate makes it act like a diode. You re-discovered the electrolytic rectifier.  Congratulations!

GB

You keep forgetting that i'm not using it as a rectifier. I'm using it as a battery. A battery and rectifier are two very different things.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on December 30, 2010, 08:25:56 PM
You keep forgetting that i'm not using it as a rectifier. I'm using it as a battery. A battery and rectifier are two very different things.

It doesn't matter.  Without the thin layers of oxide, then it's just a battery.  With the thin layers of oxide, then it's an electrolytic rectifier.  I can't make it any more clearer to you than this.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2010, 09:00:52 PM
It doesn't matter.  Without the thin layers of oxide, then it's just a battery.  With the thin layers of oxide, then it's an electrolytic rectifier.  I can't make it any more clearer to you than this.

GB

I'm sorry it does matter. A rectifier or diode blocks electricity from flowing in a certain direction. A battery gives you the electricity. I don't see how you're mistaking a diode for a battery, both are really different. Also this effect is not only limited to aluminum but Brass also does the same-thing too.

If you look at what it says "only aluminium electrodes were used, and used on A.C., there was no polarization and thus no rectifier action". It clearly says that when you use only aluminum electrodes there was no RECTIFIER ACTION, so even they say its not a rectifier when aluminum is only used.

You are confusing the process of using dissimilar metals with non dissimilar metals. When they used Aluminum with another metal electrode like lead they would - "The rectification action is due to a thin coating of aluminum hydroxide on the aluminum electrode, formed by first applying a strong current to the cell to build up the coating". I'm not not applying any current to them. The water captret is giving off voltage, just like a battery would and not blocking it like a diode would.

Like i said i don't understand how you're confusing a battery with a diode.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on December 30, 2010, 09:55:44 PM
I'm sorry it does matter. A rectifier or diode blocks electricity from flowing in a certain direction. A battery gives you the electricity. I don't see how you're mistaking a diode for a battery, both are really different. Also this effect is not only limited to aluminum but Brass also does the same-thing too.

If you look at what it says "only aluminium electrodes were used, and used on A.C., there was no polarization and thus no rectifier action". It clearly says that when you use only aluminum electrodes there was no RECTIFIER ACTION, so even they say its not a rectifier when aluminum is only used.

You are confusing the process of using dissimilar metals with non dissimilar metals. When they used Aluminum with another metal electrode like lead they would - "The rectification action is due to a thin coating of aluminum hydroxide on the aluminum electrode, formed by first applying a strong current to the cell to build up the coating". I'm not not applying any current to them. The water captret is giving off voltage, just like a battery would and not blocking it like a diode would.

Like i said i don't understand how you're confusing a battery with a diode.

I'm not confusing a battery with a diode.  An electrolytic capacitor has a thin layer of oxide on the aluminum.  When you connect this electrolytic capacitor in the "captret mode", then the capacitor will act as an electrolytic rectifier when the breakdown voltage of this thin layer of oxide is exceeded (This is exactly how an electrolytic rectifier functions).  The water battery with no oxide layer on the aluminum is just a battery. Add an electrolytic solution, such as borax or baking soda, to this water battery and it can now act as an electrolytic rectifier just like an electrolytic capacitor connected in the "captret mode".

Quote from: Wiki
Unlike the rectifier, above, only aluminium electrodes were used, and used on A.C., there was no polarization and thus no rectifier action, but the chemistry was similar.

There may not have been any rectifier action with AC, but you convieniently left out how the chemistry was similar.  The water battery is producing it's voltage from a difference in surface area of the aluminum plates.  Since the water battery is producing DC from this potential difference in surface area, then if there is a thin layer of oxide it will lead to a rectifier action if the breakdown voltage of this thin layer is exceeded.  An electrolytic capacitor connected in the "captret mode" is nothing more than an electroyltic rectifier.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: happyfunball on December 30, 2010, 10:08:58 PM
Since the water battery is producing DC from this potential difference in surface area, then if there is a thin layer of oxide it will lead to a rectifier action if the breakdown voltage of this thin layer is exceeded.  An electrolytic capacitor connected in the "captret mode" is nothing more than an electroyltic rectifier.

GB

Should be fairly simple to test this theory by using two identical size strips of aluminum
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2010, 10:19:12 PM
I would like to point something out that was brought to my attention on one of my youtube videos. Since i said that aluminum and brass works Mrb00k5 had pointed out to me that both aluminum and brass are paramagnetic metals and i know for a fact that water is diamagnetic. Could this be the reason why i get voltage from my water captret?

Mrbr00k5 also pointed out that copper is paramagnetic too, and it does work.

I'm glad he pointed that out, all possibilities are welcomed.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2010, 11:41:11 PM
Adding salt to the water captret water battery lowers the voltage.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: markdansie on December 30, 2010, 11:49:21 PM
Just wondering after watching you latest video where you had them in series (around 800 mV) what sort of MA you are able to measure
Mark
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 31, 2010, 12:10:19 AM
Just wondering after watching you latest video where you had them in series (around 800 mV) what sort of MA you are able to measure
Mark

Not a lot, I think it was in the micro amp range? I'll post a video.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 31, 2010, 01:14:24 AM
a video showing the amp draw on the water captret
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK13E-Lyyjs

for some odd reason the water captert amps are going up. in the video it was .38 volts across the resistor now its at .400 volts across the resistor.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: markdansie on December 31, 2010, 01:55:37 AM
many thanks for the video
Mark
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 31, 2010, 03:39:16 PM
many thanks for the video
Mark

I woke up today to see the water captret has increased its amp output. Last night i was about .386 volts across the 100k resistor now i'm .586 volts across the 100k resistor. It seems when given a load the water captret performs better overtime. Unlike a normal load when given to a battery where the power will go down the water captret goes up. So to preserve a water captret its best to short it out because it likes to be given loads and thats how you keep it performing its best. This is truly amazing to see a battery gain power over time when given a load.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 01, 2011, 04:02:58 PM
Here's how I make my Water Captret Batteries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDusf5sjb2M



Someone has pointed out to me that the Water Captret Battery has a magnetic field around it when a compass is place near it, its small but noticeable.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 02, 2011, 05:49:14 AM
The water captret has increased it's power again through the resistor. Yesterday i was reading .585 volts across a 100k resistor and today its at .780 volts across the resistor. It seems to increase POWER over time when given a load.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: billmehess on January 02, 2011, 07:49:27 AM
Has the current increased from your earlier .000003 amps? At this current level you would need 334,000 in parallel to generate 1 amp.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 02, 2011, 02:48:53 PM
Has the current increased from your earlier .000003 amps? At this current level you would need 334,000 in parallel to generate 1 amp.

Yes, as the voltage across the resistor increases so does the amps. .780/100000 = about .000008
The increase is small, but its increasing at all is really amazing. The Amps are really not that important so long as i got voltage. The voltage can alone can do so many things like light a LED and even charge a battery.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 02, 2011, 06:08:36 PM
I've been playing with types of liquids in the water captret.I've added salt to one and the cell lost most of its voltage and soon died. I've added baking soda to one and it did increase the voltage, I'm leaving that cell shorted out to see if the plates get destroyed like they do in aluminum battery. So far the baking soda added to the water has not affected the water captret in any negative way, it still produces good voltage even when shorted out for a long period of time. The plates still look good and besides a lot more bubbles the water captret with baking soda seems to be working fine.

i've also tried car 50/50 antifreeze since it has the same stuff as regular capacitors have. With antifreeze it doesn't make a good battery, but makes a great capacitor. Simple by using antifreeze instead of water with the water captret makes it into a capacitor. And since i can make capacitors i can now make captrets, and i can add as many captret layers as i want each producing there own voltage.

This goes to also prove that i was right in assuming that all capacitors are batteries, its the liquid that they hold between the plates that makes them capacitors first and batteries last, but switching that liquid can make it battery first and capacitor last. Since the capacitor itself is a battery this could explain the self charging we see on captret circuits.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: shylo on January 03, 2011, 01:45:41 AM
Hi Ib been reading lots here ,I tried to duplicate your cell alu foil on the  outside of water bottle, alu foil on the inside, around the circumference ,filled with tap water,  and a central post "alu" submerged in the water. It read nothing on my meter. This was posted back a few pages but maybe I did something wrong.Would it be too much to ask for a detailed drawing of the design, I can't watch videos ,half the time these pages won't even load..........thanx for any input ...shylo 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 03, 2011, 04:38:38 AM
Hi Ib been reading lots here ,I tried to duplicate your cell alu foil on the  outside of water bottle, alu foil on the inside, around the circumference ,filled with tap water,  and a central post "alu" submerged in the water. It read nothing on my meter. This was posted back a few pages but maybe I did something wrong.Would it be too much to ask for a detailed drawing of the design, I can't watch videos ,half the time these pages won't even load..........thanx for any input ...shylo


How about a how to video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDusf5sjb2M
This video is the updated version 2.0, i believe the one you're talking about is the old one. The new one is much simpler.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 03, 2011, 05:19:51 PM
I was checking on one of the water captret batteries that i have shorted out for over a week now and notice somethings are different. The plates have not disappeared or been damage, quite the opposite the negative plate has expanded full of water. Quite a bit of water is missing too. I don't know if the water is evaporating or if the water is being consumed but ill test it by placing plastic wrap over the top of the cup. If water vapors start appearing on the plastic then i know its evaporating but if none do and the water level goes down then we are consuming the water.

And after been shorted out for over a week it still produces voltage, actual more than the new ones. New ones are around .150 volts and this shorted out one is around .260 volts.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 03, 2011, 11:03:45 PM
I’ve spent most of the day trying to get the water captret to output more voltage from one cup. I’m still baffled at what I’m getting.

So far what I know is…

Usually the thin plate is positive plate and the thick one is negative plate.
From what I’m seeing Plate size doesn’t affect voltage but the bigger the plate the more amps.
The only thing that comes close to raising the voltage is having one plate, the big thin one, fully in the water and the small thick one barely touching the water.  But this is not linear. What I mean by that is if I have both plates completely in the water and I start to slowly raise the small thick one it won’t slowly raises in voltage. It will go up and down and when you get to the end where not much is sticking in the water the voltage will go up. So if the small thick one is half in doesn’t mean that it’s producing half if it was barely touching the water, it either produces a lot less or sometime a lot more than what the barely touching the water gives. It is this random voltages that baffle me; I can’t find the best way of doing this to get the best voltage out.

One thing I noticed about the plates that are in the water is that they’re holding water. When I squeeze the water out of them they start giving more voltage until they fill back up again. The big thin on is not affected by this but the little thick one that is folded with many flaps holds quite a bit of water and squeezing the water out gives the cup more voltage but as soon as the plate fills back up it returns to normal. It’s like the water is attracted to that one plate.
When I replace one plate with a new never been used plate the voltage will go up but slowly go down to about normal voltage of one cup. Removing that one plate and flipping it will sometime raise the voltage and sometime drop it. Once again it creates what seems to be random voltages.

Since Plate sizes and mass of the plates were really no help I started to play with different liquids.
My control – Regular water gives me about 140mV
Vinegar and corn syrup is about 20mV
Olive oil and car antifreeze is about 0 to 10mV
Sugar water was about 100mV
Baking soda was about 60mV
Water placed in the sunlight was about 130mV
Boiling water was about 33mV
Boiling water left to cool to room temperature was about 120mV

I’m quite flustered that I can’t seem to find a way to get a better output voltage of one cup. The only proven way I’ve seen voltage and power increase was in the big water captret hook in series and given a load, and with that load voltage increased and so did power.
So knowing all this I tried to make smaller ones. It seemed that all I need was aluminum plates to be touching water and it would seem that but that’s not true. I’ve tried separating two plates with a paper towel that was soaked in water, and for some reason didn’t perform as well as two plates sitting in water. For some reason the big bulky current design works best. Having the plates sit in the water of the plastic cup gives the best voltage.

To sum it all up…

-Bigger plate size means more amps and the thickness determines it polarity in most cases.
- The Plate size, mass, layers don’t give a good way of determining if you’re increasing the voltage or decreasing it.
-Nothing physical is giving me any clue as to it increasing the voltage.
-Moving the plates up and down doesn’t give a linear power produced. Moving the plates up will increase the voltage but at certain spots also decrease it too. For the best voltage out put it best to have the little thick plate barely touching the water, but even this can decrease voltage in some plates.
-It’s like the plates have a mind of their own.
-You can’t layer the plate between paper towels in hope to making a more compact design to output more voltage in a compact way. The plates seem like they need to be surrounded by the water.
-Water seems to work best out of baking soda, sugar water, vinegar, cooking oils, and car antifreeze.
-The plates fill up with water and squeezing the water out will give better voltage until the plates fill back up.
-And the only way I see power or voltage increasing is letting the cup sit shorted out or given a load for few days.  After a few days the plates may be full of water but still produce over the normal voltage.
-Also I would like to add that one of the cups that have been sitting shorted out for over a week has lost quite a bit of water. I don’t know if it evaporated or if the water is being consumed, or even if it’s being used to fill up the plates.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 06, 2011, 02:00:15 PM
I've got some one expanding on the water captret battery idea. This guy has the foil wrapped around the outside not touching anything and he gets some big bubbles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLLFk2DZXCA



I'm now trying to make a big enough water captret battery so that it will run some LED's.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on January 11, 2011, 08:26:17 PM
You should try to make a BlackGate Non-Polarized Electrolytic Captret, http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/resources/blackgate/blackgate071a.pdf

BlackGate Super E-Caps, http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/blackgate/techEcap.htm

The BlackGate capacitors are no longer in production, but you may be able to find them on e-Bay.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 14, 2011, 02:52:48 AM
I took some time off from playing with the water captret battery; I could never find a good way to increase the voltage. I'm back at playing with capacitors and playing with the captret setup.

I noticed something interesting about the captret. I've have the captret + and - leads shorted out and my meter connected to the case and the negative lead. As would what anyone one would expect the voltage goes down when it is hooked up to the meter, but when i touch my finger to the case the voltage will start to go up. At first i thought i was grounding it and that caused it to go up, so instead i touched the other end of the alligator clip that is connected to the case and the voltage went down. So I’m not grounding it when i touch it, so what could be causing it to increase? At first i thought it was the "human electricity" that i was giving off, but then it hit me. I started to blow my hot air from my mouth on to it, and the voltage started to go up. Just to make sure I heated up my hot glue gun, and placed the side of it where it gets hot on to the top of the capacitor and the voltage started going up. It seems the Captret or better yet capacitors are also thermocouples.

Being a thermocouple it could be gathering the radiant heat that sounds up constantly and this could be the reason also for the self-charging we see in the captret circuits. This thermal couple effect could also be the reason why capacitors manage to have a voltage even when shorted out. But this is not that surprising when you start considering current thermal couples and how they function. You see normal thermal couples rely on two DISIMILAR metals while the capacitor has to similar metals but yet still gives off electricity. This also goes along with what I’ve been saying about the water captret batteries; even though they have similar metal they're giving off electricity. It also seems that i may have answered my own question about the water captret battery on how to get more voltage, just add more heat! It seems there is no mystery when it comes to the captret and its extra energy; it’s getting its extra energy from the radiant heat that surrounds us constantly. As for my water captret batteries, they're thermocouples. Not just any thermal couple but what seems to be a very different kind, as you have read my thermal couple uses two of the same metals while normal thermal couples used two dissimilar metals. As seen here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple

You can test this yourself.
I shorted out a 220uF 50V capacitors + and - leads. Connected my meters - probe to the - of the capacitor and the + of my meter went to the case of the capacitor. The voltage was low, around .700 volts but when i touched with my hand or something hot the voltage slowly went up instead of down.

So technically the captret got its extra energy from radiant energy that surrounds us at all time, no matter where you go there is some type of heat.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: altrez on January 15, 2011, 08:26:56 PM
Hello,

I think I have replicated the Captret but it does not seem to work? The LED does light but it drains the battery it never has put an extra charge on it? The battery charging circuit I am using on three different size caps will not put a charge in the battery? How long should I wait, its been 3 days?

Here are some pics of my Captrets,

-Altrez
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 15, 2011, 10:33:41 PM
Hello,

I think I have replicated the Captret but it does not seem to work? The LED does light but it drains the battery it never has put an extra charge on it? The battery charging circuit I am using on three different size caps will not put a charge in the battery? How long should I wait, its been 3 days?

Here are some pics of my Captrets,

-Altrez



It looks like you're trying to make the "Captret LED Driver Circuit". The Original LED driver circuit was never for overuinty, just to show a different way to run a LED. What made it so different was the way it used the power. When you hook up a normal LED light to a battery the voltage will just keep going down, while the captret caused the voltage to go down but it would reach a certain voltage and start to climb back up but never higher than the original standing voltage.

From the looks of your picture you do have it setup wrong, or at least different than what i normally did. The negative of the battery goes to the case and the positive goes to the positive of the capacitors. The LED's + goes to the capacitor + and the LED's - goes to the - of the capacitor. Make sure that you use a LED and i'll include a simple diagram of the "captret led driver circuit" below.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: altrez on January 16, 2011, 12:47:54 AM
Hello!

Can you please post a diagram for how I should have my battery chargers hooked up? I think there wrong as well. I cant get any battery / Cap combo I have tried to charge a dead battery.

Thank you so very much.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 16, 2011, 05:35:40 AM
Hello!

Can you please post a diagram for how I should have my battery chargers hooked up? I think there wrong as well. I cant get any battery / Cap combo I have tried to charge a dead battery.

Thank you so very much.

-Altrez


if you're tying to charge batteries with the captret then there's more than one way. You can start from the beginning of this thread or http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6684-captret-perpetual-light-dead-batteries.html

I and many others have found many ways to charge batteries, but the charge was slow. Even though i and many others could get a battery to charge at no loss the charge was very little.

There simple things like this you can try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbn4vede2us

if you want to really get into the charging then you should check out what Plengo's doing here http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10175.0

there's not just one thing you can try but many things! The captret was merely to get people to think and come up with uses for it, i never expect it to be a battery charger. As for your current setup it might be the capacitors, some work better than others. I find that 220uF 50v capacitors work great for some things, try to avoid super caps too.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: blueplanet on January 16, 2011, 06:38:10 AM
Hi Folks,

I have a very stupid question. I hope you don't mind.

What is the easiest way to permanently connect the "O" pin of an electrolytic capacitor?

Blueplanet
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: gravityblock on January 16, 2011, 07:49:13 AM
if you want to really get into the charging then you should check out what Plengo's doing here http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10175.0

According to Plengo, there is no charging in his experiment.

I have bad news updates. Switching the batteries total voltage went DOWN. Now it is about 14.67v way below the initial 18v.

Sooooo, I think this design is not working.

Thanks to all for the support and the ideas.

Fausto.

GB
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Bizzy on January 18, 2011, 12:08:45 PM
Hi Blue Planet
What is the easiest way to permanently connect the "O" pin of an electrolytic capacitor?

I heat a bare wire with my solder iron and drop some solder on it. I While there is still a hot droplet on the wire I quickly press it against some cold steel. The solder will not adhere to the cold steel but will stick to th ehot wire. This gives me a wide and flat connection at the end of the wire. I then palce the wire at the O position and use liquid tape to secure the wire and lead contact to the capacitor.
Bizzy



Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Bizzy on January 18, 2011, 12:11:48 PM
Ibpointless2
Thanks so much for all the usefull help on the captret. As I mentioned above I am trying to duplicate the captret effect and charger. No success yet but I am confident I will.
Thanks again
Bizzy
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Bizzy on January 18, 2011, 09:28:33 PM
Ibpointless2
I was able to get my captret circuit working this afternoon. This is a very exciting circuit to work with.
Thanks
Bizzy
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 19, 2011, 01:45:14 PM
Ibpointless2
I was able to get my captret circuit working this afternoon. This is a very exciting circuit to work with.
Thanks
Bizzy

What did you do wrong? and which one are you working on?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Bizzy on January 19, 2011, 06:31:57 PM
Hi Ibpointless
I have been working  in replicating your designs as well as lasersaber's
Actually the problem was with my leads. I have been using them so often on so many experiments and various projects the solder  connection broke. I replaced the bad lead and it works now although not as well as others
What is the best capacitor you would recommend for the captretI have been using electrolytic 50 volts 100 uf
Thanks
Bizzy
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 20, 2011, 01:39:12 AM
Hi Ibpointless
I have been working  in replicating your designs as well as lasersaber's
Actually the problem was with my leads. I have been using them so often on so many experiments and various projects the solder  connection broke. I replaced the bad lead and it works now although not as well as others
What is the best capacitor you would recommend for the captretI have been using electrolytic 50 volts 100 uf
Thanks
Bizzy


Its hard to say which capacitors are the best to use. Some say high voltage caps work best if you're after the self charging. The caps i used where...

1uF 400v
220uf 50v
10000uf 50v
2.2uf 50v

Try to stay away from super caps

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NickZ on January 20, 2011, 03:18:13 AM
   All:
   I'm still trying to figure which caps work best, also.  The capacitor  that seams to show the strongest effect (for me) is a 82 uf 400 volt. If I had more of them, like 4 to 6 or them, I'm sure the leds would light much brighter. In anycase the brightness is totally dependent on the voltage. Providing less than about 15 volts will not give any usable or   adequate brightness from the leds. If I don't connect any leds bulbs to the Captret, the caps will sustain their charge, or even raise in voltage by 1/2 a volt or so, but not much higher than that. Even after days. I've never seen any more than about one volt higher than whatever it started with.  But, an interesting effect is to add more voltage while the device is operating, (wall outlet etz...) then after a short while (a minute) disconnect the extra voltage, and the Captret's leds will retain their brighter appereance for a while, somewhat like the Joule Ringer effect, but for a longer duration than expected.
  I have some 9 volt batteries that still have almost all their original charge after 9 days use as part one of my Captrets (8-9 v).  But, I have not had much luck with connecting one battery to the next one by plugging them into each other. So, I think that it may not be the best way to add more batteries or voltage to the device, as the batteries discharge unevenly,  one compared to the other battery plugged into it, for some reason.  Anyways, I'm still at it...
 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: exnihiloest on January 20, 2011, 12:12:35 PM

Just a remark. We can't speak about "self-charging" if the voltage doesn't not exceed at least 2v, because in this case we are below the redox potentials which can be provided by ordinary chemical reactions at the electrode/electrolyte interface.

I tested some "modern" capacitors yesterday, there was less than 1v. Thus it is not conclusive, conventional phenomena can be involved.
I have also old capacitors dating the 60's or 70's, in the range 400v, 200 µF. It will be my next step this evening.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 20, 2011, 01:17:25 PM
Hi All,
please see this edited picture.

In my experiments I did not need the connection with the
red cross, then the captret just works as a normal series resistor
for the LED.
As the alucase of the cap is internally only connected via the electrolyte
to the cathode foil, I wonder, if the cap is not chemically
decomposing this way, if you run a DC current from the ALucase to the negative
cathode foil or at least if it will change the capacitance of the capacitor over time ?

We really have to analyse what is going on internally chemically.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 20, 2011, 01:22:50 PM
Well, to explain it further,
what I painted as internal resistance is of course the resistance
of the alucase via the electrolyte to the negative pole
of the capacitor.
So it is mainly the electrolyte that is this internal resistance.

If you look closely you see, that the negative pole of the
capacitor gets a positive potential via the LED from the battery.

So if you measure across the negative pole of the cap to its alucase,
it has a positive voltage.

Now does this positive voltage decompose the electrolyte
or the aluminiumoxid layer inside the cap ?

This is the big question....

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NickZ on January 20, 2011, 03:50:22 PM
   All:
   I have noticed that several (but not all) of the capacitors that I have used in the Captrets are bulging and leaking after using them in the captret system.  I think that the higher the voltage used (20 volts), the more damage is done to the caps.  Reminds me of the regular AA batteries and how they leak if charged.  The caps are not made to be used for this purpose, but there may be some types of caps that can possibly hold up better than others. All of the caps I used were of higher voltage ratings than the voltage applied to them, but they were also used caps from old pc power supplies, and such.  Maybe using the right caps for this purpose would work much better.  There is an effect going on, but I don't think that it very usable on a long term basis. The caps bulge and leak, and the Captret still is discharging the battery if more than one led is used.  If no led is used the caps maintain there voltage without dropping, but hardly raising in charge, either.  The led is the thief of the joules. With just one led bulb the system can maintain its charge without dropping by more than a volt, or so. 
  The only thing that I've learned from this is that most of my transistors, caps and almost all my leds have burned out or fried.

   I don't understand the Red X in your diagram, Harti.  Does that mean to not use the positive rail of the cap?  Thanks for the helping hand, as we are working hard at this, but maybe getting nowhere.
  It would be great to figure out how to make this work without any damage to the components, and still have some usable light.
                                                                                           NZ
 
                                                           
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: altrez on January 20, 2011, 06:43:22 PM
You do not use the + rail in that diagram. The Captret is acting as a resistor.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NickZ on January 20, 2011, 11:30:40 PM
    Guys:
    The first picture is of my 10 capacitor Captret set up, lighting 12 leds at about 3/4 brightness.  The second is a 4 captret system (made today) lighting the same group of leds, but connected using NO positive rail, like Stefan suggested.
  They both have about the same brightness, I'll see how long the last one with no positive rail connection lasts...   
  Thanks again for the suggestion.
                                                   NZ
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 21, 2011, 12:54:18 AM
You do not use the + rail in that diagram. The Captret is acting as a resistor.

-Altrez
Yes, this is what I meant.

In my experiments it did not matter, if I connected the positive pole of the capacitor,
it had no effect on the brightness of the LED.
So I left it unconnected and then the captret is just a series resistor.

But maybe it depends on the safety or wellness of the internal
chemical reaction, if one connects the positive rail or not ?

Will it decompose faster then or not at all ?

I did not very long tests with my captrets, only
an hour or so and I did not see any leaking of the caps.
I had a 10 Volts DC power supply only.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 21, 2011, 01:02:44 AM
Hi NickZ,
did you put your captrets in series or in parallel ?
For to get more current flowing you would need
to put them in parallel as one acts just as a series resistor
and 4 series resistor in serie will put up the resistance too high...

Do you also have your 12 LEDs in parallel ?
Maybe you should change this also by using only 6 x (2 in series) in parallel.

This will raise the threshold level to around 5 Volts and needs less current.
Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NickZ on January 21, 2011, 04:44:40 AM
    All:
    In the last 4 cap set up the leds are all in parallel.  It may not be as bright that way, but I have burnt most of my leds when I connect them in series, as I use 3 or 4  9 volt batteries.  If I use only one led, and one 9 volt battery, like Stefan, the light is dim... but does normally last overnight, and sometimes longer.  I don't see the point if there is no light, or a dim light.  The effect of the Captret is weak,  but present, although it is not a battery charger, it is more like a charge maintainer.  I've been trying to upgrade it, and see if I can make something useful from this.
  My next test is with 15 AA batteries together forming an straight dipole. I've made it to see it I can get the metal caps and metal batteries to combine and work together to pull some more Aether into the Captret system.  More on that in a day or two.
   Stefan:  In order to see the capacitors leaking and bulging effects,  20 to 30 volts will do it. Just leave the captret running alone for a few days...  I've been running tests now for over a month, since I first saw Ibepointless2's first video. The results have been a bit frustrating, but also alot of fun.
   The new 4 cap set up that I made today with 12 leds, and no positive post connections, is still on and running, although slightly dimmer, and with 1/2 volt lower voltage.  We'll see if it makes it through the night.   Previous tests have shown that more than 2 or 3 leds is all it can normally handle without overloading, and quickly draining the batteries charge. I would think that more capacitance and higher voltages are needed to have a longer lasting brighter light.
  It may end up being the Captret Ringer...
   
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 21, 2011, 06:29:38 PM
Here is an interesting analysis from Dr. Stiffler.

he also warns about that the caps could be exploding:


http://67.76.235.52/capret.htm


By the way, did Dr. Stiffler remove all his Youtube Videos
from his
mrh2o2
youtube account ?

I don´t find it anymore.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: altrez on January 21, 2011, 07:32:50 PM
Here is an interesting analysis from Dr. Stiffler.

he also warns about that the caps could be exploding:


http://67.76.235.52/capret.htm


By the way, did Dr. Stiffler remove all his Youtube Videos
from his
mrh2o2
youtube account ?

I don´t find it anymore.

I did see that on Dr. Stiffler's site and it makes sense, as in the caps are building up pressure inside when you apply too much current.

Indeed his videos are down?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NickZ on January 21, 2011, 08:50:19 PM
   All:
   Holy cow!!! Thanks for the link, Stefan.   Stiffler is very right... 
Great experiments. I also would have to agree with his findings, But, there is still some magic to the Captret- Ringer  that he may not have as yet discovered...  How to upgrade the effect without blowing the caps.  Why bother?  Because the caps are drawing energy from the surrounding space, and converting it into usable electric power. And that in itself needs to be studied, and utilized.   The caps are the key, the leds or CFLs are the Joule thiefs, but are also are drawing the energy in, and making it ring, for a while.  But, doesn't this need to be an Open Circuit,  to run like we want it to?  Or does it??? 
 
  I can also show pictures of my caps being blown out, with no heat ever noticed.  Once they do bulge and leak they are done... 
  What we need is to find the way to use the Capacitors as if they are batteries.  They may need to be vented like some batteries, so they don't bulge and bust, and their electrolyte refilled if needed.
   The bulging caps effect will be noticed to a higher degree when running the Captret at 20 -30 volts,  and using several leds as the load. The type of Led does make a big difference, as they will hold the device down to their own working voltages and specs,  like a resistor.
   I've also connected the Captrets to a Jtc, as Jeanna had mentioned to me to try a thousand things, I did,  but I've blown most of them... 
 
   We may need to make our own capacitor banks, or,  buy the right ones that will provide for the desired effect without the drawbacks... 
But the main thing is that there is something to the capacitors ability to draw energy out of the surrounding space.  And that effect has not been properly tested or proven, yet,  although I think that Tesla and others have mentioned something along those lines, many years ago.
                                                                                        NZ
 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: tagor on January 22, 2011, 11:59:49 AM


By the way, did Dr. Stiffler remove all his Youtube Videos
from his
mrh2o2
youtube account ?

I don´t find it anymore.

his new account is here
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLaKRgW9RnM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLaKRgW9RnM)

 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 22, 2011, 01:55:04 PM
@all

I've never had any of my capacitors blown up or leak and i have a hard time believing that they do. I only use new capacitors and i buy them from Mouser.com. If you're using used capacitors then you might be affected by the "Capacitor plague". This Capacitor plague started when some companies went cheap and used the wrong formula that kept the capacitors insides from leaking. The best thing to use is new capacitors, and i've never exceed 17 volts. Also stay under the voltage on the capacitor. As for stiffler try not to listen to much of what he says about the captret. Stiffler like to post bad things about it and spread lies about it due to the fact that the captret idea got more attention than his similar but very different idea.

As for the extra energy i've concluded that its coming from the ambient heat energy that surrounds us. This would prove why some of my experiments don't work that well in my cold room, but put my hand over the capacitor and the voltage starts to go up. All seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBPAKNUWiAs
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: miki02131 on January 22, 2011, 02:30:56 PM
@all

I've never had any of my capacitors blown up or leak and i have a hard time believing that they do. I only use new capacitors and i buy them from Mouser.com. If you're using used capacitors then you might be affected by the "Capacitor plague". This Capacitor plague started when some companies went cheap and used the wrong formula that kept the capacitors insides from leaking. The best thing to use is new capacitors, and i've never exceed 17 volts. Also stay under the voltage on the capacitor. As for stiffler try not to listen to much of what he says about the captret. Stiffler like to post bad things about it and spread lies about it due to the fact that the captret idea got more attention than his similar but very different idea.

As for the extra energy i've concluded that its coming from the ambient heat energy that surrounds us. This would prove why some of my experiments don't work that well in my cold room, but put my hand over the capacitor and the voltage starts to go up. All seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBPAKNUWiAs

Although I disagree with your understanding or interpretation of the captret, I have to agree with you on your last post about that dude. He is not qualified to judge your results. You can see that in his youtube video, he was unable to even lit an LED with the Captret. Even an elementary kid should be able to put that circuit together and get an LED lit on first go.

Miki Out.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NickZ on January 22, 2011, 04:29:08 PM
     @ Ibepointless2 and All:
     Thank you for the positive out look.  Although it may seam as though I am siding with the DR.,   I am not. I'm just looking for a permanent and dependable power source.  Unfortunately I just damaged two more capacitors that are part of my last 4 cap Captret set up, that lasted only 7 hours.  This one was part of the different wiring idea that doesn't use the positive post on the cap.  Stefan came up with this idea a couple of days ago, but it may be working only as a resistor system. I just don't know yet as it stopped working after 7 hours.  And will not start now, without changing caps.
 I am working on the Captret system to run as a permanent power source, so I'm not looking to light a single led dimly for a while, at low voltage.
  I feel the reason that the Captret is a power source is because of the  cap producing the extra energy (as if it were a battery).  Even after they are shorted out manually, they just come back for more. Even after a week or more of running on the same source battery.  I do see that it is very important to use the Right Caps ( new), and keep the voltage at around 15 volts, or the caps will cold fry.
  I have been running test on this everyday now for almost two months.  And I think there is a similarity in the effect as compared to the Joule rigger, and other capacitor powered devices.
   If someone has been able to light More than One Led  off of their Captret for over a week, without discharging the battery, but instead maintaining its voltage.  Let us know... 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 22, 2011, 06:03:31 PM
@all

I've never had any of my capacitors blown up or leak and i have a hard time believing that they do. I only use new capacitors and i buy them from Mouser.com. If you're using used capacitors then you might be affected by the "Capacitor plague". This Capacitor plague started when some companies went cheap and used the wrong formula that kept the capacitors insides from leaking. The best thing to use is new capacitors, and i've never exceed 17 volts. Also stay under the voltage on the capacitor. As for stiffler try not to listen to much of what he says about the captret. Stiffler like to post bad things about it and spread lies about it due to the fact that the captret idea got more attention than his similar but very different idea.

As for the extra energy i've concluded that its coming from the ambient heat energy that surrounds us. This would prove why some of my experiments don't work that well in my cold room, but put my hand over the capacitor and the voltage starts to go up. All seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBPAKNUWiAs

Well my caps also did not leak nor blow,
but I only worked with 10 Volts DC and my caps had 2700 uF 35 Volts rating or so...
So the voltage was below that.

I just see the site from Dr.Stiffler:

http://67.76.235.52/e_seg01.asp

where he had simular experiments done in the past, but all more
with high frequency currents, not with DC...

I can verify that a bit charged capacitor will rise in voltage
with temperature.

I had a few years back done an experiment,
where I had several 100 nF ceramic caps in parallel
charged up to 2 Volts or so and when I used
a hairblower to blow hot air at them and heated them
up this way, the voltage rose to
over 10 Volts when I remember correctly.


I just wonder, if this effect could be used for an efficient
thermo to electric generator ?

Maybe one can just use Fresnell lenses or silvered satellite dishes
to heat a capacitor bank and then discharge it into a load and recharge
it again via the heat ?

This would need probably need very heat dependend dielectricums.

The question is, if it is enough to discharge the caps,
so they will fall in voltage again and if the voltage
will rise then again due to them being still hot,
or if one has to cool them down again, before a new
heating cycle can begin ?

I guess this should be a neat test to see, how much
difference energy a heated ceramic cap from 20 degrees Celsius
to 100 degrees Celsius can deliver ?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 22, 2011, 06:31:08 PM
     @ Ibepointless2 and All:
     Thank you for the positive out look.  Although it may seam as though I am siding with the DR.,   I am not. I'm just looking for a permanent and dependable power source.  Unfortunately I just damaged two more capacitors that are part of my last 4 cap Captret set up, that lasted only 7 hours.  This one was part of the different wiring idea that doesn't use the positive post on the cap.  Stefan came up with this idea a couple of days ago, but it may be working only as a resistor system. I just don't know yet as it stopped working after 7 hours.  And will not start now, without changing caps.
 I am working on the Captret system to run as a permanent power source, so I'm not looking to light a single led dimly for a while, at low voltage.
  I feel the reason that the Captret is a power source is because of the  cap producing the extra energy (as if it were a battery).  Even after they are shorted out manually, they just come back for more. Even after a week or more of running on the same source battery.  I do see that it is very important to use the Right Caps ( new), and keep the voltage at around 15 volts, or the caps will cold fry.
  I have been running test on this everyday now for almost two months.  And I think there is a similarity in the effect as compared to the Joule rigger, and other capacitor powered devices.
   If someone has been able to light More than One Led  off of their Captret for over a week, without discharging the battery, but instead maintaining its voltage.  Let us know...


I think Lasersaber got the idea or some idea of the joule ringer from the captret as you can see in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bExjc8PcAQA

I've gotten one captret circuit to light for a week without losing power but instead gaining power. seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnP-jyySeDI

I use all leads even the +
You can put you meter to it and see that a voltage is coming off of it, but i remember for the self charging led light one i use two caps, one had the + and the other only had the - connected. But to see self charging you you might need the caps in a well heated room, i was seeing the self charging during the summer and now thats its winter i really don't see it.

Remember that heat is radiant energy and being able to use that ambient radiant energy is very useful.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NickZ on January 22, 2011, 09:29:15 PM
   Guys:
   My test have all been done in a room of about 86 degree temp.  Temperatures here on the coast of Costa Rica don't change by more than 5 degrees, (thank God). Sorry, for the guys with frozen toilets, or frozen Captrets.
   Ibe:  your first Captret video shows that the led was just barely lit, after a week.   This is normally due to the voltage (the REAL voltage)  going down over time.   Why then, does the Captret get brighter by just adding a couple more volts to it, when it's dim? If there is already enough voltage in the batteries for the led to be bright enough as it is?  The batteries may not have much Real solid charge left after some time, only part of what is being shown by the meter, but not enough to make the led light bright, or at least like when it started.  This can also be due to something else, but your "crowded room" idea does not make sense to me, as the led acts as an "open door" keeping the flow going, not stagnant.
   As mentioned before the cap is converting Aether, kinda like what a solar panel does with light, and Aether can't be seen nor measured.
 
  Try two or more leds, on a Captret, I'll bet that they will not light, (really light up), not barely lit, for even one day. The battery and meter may not SHOW a change, but there is...
   I feel the same thing happens with the Joule Ringer, as it consumes more that it can produce for itself, and goes out.  Lidmotor says that you have to pay for it, (a bright light).  What happened to the original  CFL lights running time of 40 minutes?  Now it's down to less than 5 minutes.  Is this the "real beef"?  Or did nobody pay for it...
                                                                                          NZ

   
   
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: nul-points on January 22, 2011, 10:10:14 PM
I can verify that a bit charged capacitor will rise in voltage with temperature.

I had a few years back done an experiment, where I had several 100 nF ceramic caps in parallel charged up to 2 Volts or so and when I used a hairblower to blow hot air at them and heated them up this way, the voltage rose to over 10 Volts when I remember correctly.

I just wonder, if this effect could be used for an efficient  thermo to electric generator ?

[..SNIP..]

The question is, if it is enough to discharge the caps, so they will fall in voltage again and if the voltage will rise then again due to them being still hot, or if one has to cool them down again, before a new heating cycle can begin ?

hi Stefan

someone once said "there's nothing new under the sun"

and we seem to prove that statement quite often on this forum - there's so much information - it's easy to miss something relevant and a lot of duplication of effort occurs!


i also did an extensive study of capacitor self-charging a couple of years back and reported my results (from a full months datalogged data) which clearly showed capacitors could self-charge even whilst shunted with a light load resistance:

  http://http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9393.0

the anomalous voltage increase was not due to previous charge because in one case the capacitor had been constantly shunted with a load resistor for 6 months before recording a linear increase in self-charge voltage - temperature being one of the main correlations with the capacitor voltage

all the data was obtained at room temperature


my latest experiment builds on this effect using DIY Zn-Cu cells in conjunction with a ballast capacitor

the results for the first 1000 hours (from early december '10) show that it's possible to sustain/charge the cell using ambient room heat at the *same time* as the cell is permanently connected to an LED flasher circuit as a load - ie. this arrangement is OU, like a solar cell, drawing its sustaining input power from ambient heat

  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10174.0

so i'd say it's not necessary to cool before recharging - i believe the heat input can be converted to electricity and stored at the same time as the load is taking what it needs

cheers
sandy
 
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 07:54:23 PM


I can verify that a bit charged capacitor will rise in voltage
with temperature.

I had a few years back done an experiment,
where I had several 100 nF ceramic caps in parallel
charged up to 2 Volts or so and when I used
a hairblower to blow hot air at them and heated them
up this way, the voltage rose to
over 10 Volts when I remember correctly.


I just wonder, if this effect could be used for an efficient
thermo to electric generator ?

Maybe one can just use Fresnell lenses or silvered satellite dishes
to heat a capacitor bank and then discharge it into a load and recharge
it again via the heat ?

This would need probably need very heat dependend dielectricums.

The question is, if it is enough to discharge the caps,
so they will fall in voltage again and if the voltage
will rise then again due to them being still hot,
or if one has to cool them down again, before a new
heating cycle can begin ?

I guess this should be a neat test to see, how much
difference energy a heated ceramic cap from 20 degrees Celsius
to 100 degrees Celsius can deliver ?

Hi All,
I just redid this experiment again, cause i just found this 10x 100 nF cap bank.

Well, putting it onto a digital voltmeter and charging it up to around 5 Volts did
discharge it too fast.

Then I pulled out my trusty old Hameg HM312 scope with its 100x scope head
which has a 100 MegaOhm input impedance.
Scope ground was tesafilm taped, so the earth ground
had no connection to the scope ground and capbank could
not charge up this way...

Then I gave this capbank a charge from an old 9 Volt battery, which
has still around 5 Volts.

The voltage at the capbank of 1 uF stays at 100 Megaohm fairly long charged
up this way.
Then I used again a hairblower to heat up the caps.
The voltage rises to about 10 Volts this way after a few seconds and
the caps are pretty hot then.

So this principle works quite nicely and I will try to buy now
many more 100 nF caps and research, which caps
have the best heat dependence.

I also tried it with my 2700 uF 35 Volts
electrolytic cap, but it did not rise up the voltage,
maybe in the millivolts range, but definately not in the Volts range...

So I guess ceramic caps are the best for this and with this
effect it could be build probably a great thermo to electric energy
converter..
As these 100 nF blocking caps are also dirt cheap, you can buy
very many at very cheap prices...

So this upcoming summer I will have a good use for
my fresnell lenses I recently bought...

I think it is best to use already about 5 to 10 Volts as the starting
voltage and then heat it up,
as I saw, that starting with just 2 Volts it did take much longer to
get the voltage to 4 Volts , so doubleing the voltage is easier,
if the cold start voltage is already higher.

Then it is best to use a few white LEDs in series
as the load, so they have a higher threshold voltage.

So if one starts with 10 Volts and heats this capbank up,
at least 4 x 2.5 Volts threshold white LEDs should be put in series,
so that the capbank voltage will never go lower as 10 Volts
and all over 10 Volts will light up the LEDs permanently,
but under 10 Volts they will just switch off...

So a few LEDs in series are the perfect load for such
a thermo to electric generator.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 08:20:47 PM
Here is a quick picture from the experiment,
so you see, what I mean.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 08:43:38 PM
Okay, in this experiment I won 37.5 mikroJoules when going from 5 to 10 Volts on
a 1 uF capbank.

When using 100 uF as the capbank ( many more 100 nF caps in parallel)
and starting at 10 Volts and heating it up to 20 Volts you
already win 15 milliJoules !

Now when using just 1 Farad as the capbank and
then going from 10 Volts to 20 Volts you already win
150 Joules ! That are 150 Wattseconds, that means
more than 2 Minutes you can draw already 1 Watt !

So then it really gets interesting !

Now what is the easiest method to get a large capbank and
what is the best and cheapest cap material for this ?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 23, 2011, 09:56:34 PM
Okay, in this experiment I won 37.5 mikroJoules when going from 5 to 10 Volts on
a 1 uF capbank.

When using 100 uF as the capbank ( many more 100 nF caps in parallel)
and starting at 10 Volts and heating it up to 20 Volts you
already win 15 milliJoules !

Now when using just 1 Farad as the capbank and
then going from 10 Volts to 20 Volts you already win
150 Joules ! That are 150 Wattseconds, that means
more than 2 Minutes you can draw already 1 Watt !

So then it really gets interesting !

Now what is the easiest method to get a large capbank and
what is the best and cheapest cap material for this ?

Wow i like where this is going!

150 Joules is a good bit of power, but you'll need a good bit of those capacitors too. This could get very expensive if we don't use the right capacitors. Maybe we could make our own, have them custom built into a parabolic shape to help in gather the most energy from the sun? I even had the idea to make a chairs seat out of capacitors so that when you sit your body heat made power to run a LED.

The big question is if this is better than a solar panel? These caps only need heat so no need for the sun, but the sun does give off a lot of heat. I wonder if you could paint the capacitors black to help them absorb more heat energy? You could make a custom one to put on a car and have it generate power, or even put it on your house? Hook it up to a 12 volt battery and have it charge that battery and use your LED diode idea to keep the battery charging.

Now the big question is if we can build our own custom Ceramic capacitors?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 10:07:33 PM
I just did a bit of research which caps have the highest negative temperature koeffizient,
so we need probably ceramic caps with the Y5V curve.
These are the best, see enclosed graphics.

These are class 2 ceramic caps, which have a high nonlinear dependance
from temperature...

There are also class 3 ceramic caps, which are even worse
in temperature stability, so better for us, but these are not anymore
produced anymore...unfortunately..

At my local electronic shop they only have the Y5V types in 470 nF maximum,
so this will get a bit expensive , if one wants to build a 1 Farad cap bank....

So yes, the question is, if for instance tantal caps or other caps are
also so extremely nonlinear in temperature , so their capacitance will also
fall so extremely with temperature ?

( This is what we need, falling capacitance with temperature will
rise the voltage on the cap)

Okay, if anybody still finds better caps please post it...

Here is the chart.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 10:09:20 PM
I think my blue 100 nF blocking caps are only the Z5U types,
so the Y5V should be even better !

This is getting interesting now !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 23, 2011, 10:16:52 PM
I think my blue 100 nF blocking caps are only the Z5U types,
so the Y5V should be even better !

This is getting interesting now !

Regards, Stefan.



Have a look at these capacitors here, would these work?

http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Ceramic-Capacitors/Ceramic-Disc-Capacitors/_/N-5g90?Keyword=Y5V&FS=True&Ns=Pricing|0
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 10:24:24 PM
The only one I found at mouser with Y5V is this one:

http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Xicon/140-50V5-224Z-RC/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt1mVBmZSXTPPQUnq7ol7tGVR0z9O9Sgmg%3d

but it is only 220 nF and too expensive...
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 23, 2011, 10:37:00 PM
The only one I found at mouser with Y5V is this one:

http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Xicon/140-50V5-224Z-RC/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt1mVBmZSXTPPQUnq7ol7tGVR0z9O9Sgmg%3d

but it is only 220 nF and too expensive...


What about these...

http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Ceramic-Capacitors/Ceramic-Disc-Capacitors/_/N-5g90?P=1z0ynaf&Ns=Pricing|0

I'm using the USA store and i don't know if its different than yours but i see a Y5V 0.01uF 50Volt for only $0.19 for only one. Does voltage have anything to do with it?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 10:51:43 PM
Have a look at this.

Samsung makes 100 uF 10 Volts Ceramic capacitor as SMD parts
with Y5V type material.

http://www.beck-elektronik.de/index.php?id=mlcc-keramikkondensator

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 11:04:08 PM
Here is the samsung cap part details:

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 23, 2011, 11:33:53 PM
Wow,
I did another test with my 10x 100 nF cap bank
and precharged it to 10 Volts DC.

Then I heated it again and it easily went to 30 Volts DC !

Wow,
this concept has really potential !

Also I am reading in Wikipedia that the Y5V material has
a good selfcharging effect of about 2 %..
So this is probably already from converting the normal environment heat
to electricity.

This will get a really cheap thermo to electric generator concept now.

The next question will be what the efficiency will be, but this
all has to be tested.

Regards, Stefan.

.


Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on January 24, 2011, 12:28:08 AM
Hi Stefan,

A hair dryer uses about 500+ watts. Do you think painting the caps flat black and using a couple infrared or small 3v laser diodes to heat them will give better efficiency?
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: blueplanet on January 24, 2011, 12:43:01 AM
I am not sure whether you are referring to negative temperature coefficient of capacitance. There many non-electrolytic materials capable of yielding higher capacitance when subjected to heat.  Barium Titanate is one of those having negative temperature coefficient of capacitance at room temperature.

This self-compensating effect is well-known and being used in today's satellite technologies. This thing is nothing new, but I doubt if this knowledge is directly applicable to captret.

Self-compensating is not necessarily self-charging. Take a look on the following equations:

Q = C * V
dQ/dT = V * dC/dT + C * dV/dT

If Q does not change (i.e. dQ/dT=0), decreasing capacitance (i.e. negative dC/dT)  means increasing voltage (i.e. positive dV/dT).

But I believe the Q does change in some situations.


Wow,
I did another test with my 10x 100 nF cap bank
and precharged it to 10 Volts DC.

Then I heated it again and it easily went to 30 Volts DC !

Wow,
this concept has really potential !

Also I am reading in Wikipedia that the Y5V material has
a good selfcharging effect of about 2 %..
So this is probably already from converting the normal environment heat
to electricity.

This will get a really cheap thermo to electric generator concept now.

The next question will be what the efficiency will be, but this
all has to be tested.

Regards, Stefan.

.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 24, 2011, 01:24:10 AM
Hi Stefan,

A hair dryer uses about 500+ watts. Do you think painting the caps flat black and using a couple infrared or small 3v laser diodes to heat them will give better efficiency?

The hair dryer is to test the concept, The capacitors will work at room temp. The Laser idea sound cool but its more of a focused energy, but only one way to find out.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 24, 2011, 02:22:38 AM
I am not sure whether you are referring to negative temperature coefficient of capacitance. There many non-electrolytic materials capable of yielding higher capacitance when subjected to heat.  Barium Titanate is one of those having negative temperature coefficient of capacitance at room temperature.


Yes, my test was with ceramic caps, not electrolytic caps.
These have a strong negative temperature coefficient of capacitance.


Quote



Self-compensating is not necessarily self-charging. Take a look on the following equations:

Q = C * V
dQ/dT = V * dC/dT + C * dV/dT

If Q does not change (i.e. dQ/dT=0), decreasing capacitance (i.e. negative dC/dT)  means increasing voltage (i.e. positive dV/dT).

But I believe the Q does change in some situations.

You are right, I forgot, that the C capacitance will decrease and that is
why the voltage rises, but as the voltage goes into the energy formula as square
Energy= 0.5 x C x V^2
I guess this nonlinearity can be used to still generate power this way via
heating such caps.
I will just try it.
Regarding the laser idea, yes any heat can be used and painting
the caps black will also help.
The question is, if there are other cap materials that have even
a stronger negative temperature coefficient than Y5V dielectricum
material.

What about Tantal electrolytic caps ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Ghost_Rider on January 24, 2011, 03:32:12 AM
Try placing your caps in the sun, like on a roof. Might be better than solar panels.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 24, 2011, 04:03:55 AM
I had some 104m ceramic capacitors laying around so I tested them to see if they would pick up radiant heat energy.

I was able to get around 100mV from one cap when I touched the cap with my hand. I got around 300mV when I placed it in front of my heater. But the best part was the reading I was getting when I left it sitting in room temperature. Sitting in the room temp I got around 2mV and hooking another one in parallel gave me a little over 3mV. So even ambient heat energy can be collected, and since the ceramic caps are cheap we can make a nice collector. I would like to see how they would do in sun light, maybe I could increase the effect with a magnifying glass. Many possibilities are opening now.

So it looks like the caps are really converting heat into energy.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 24, 2011, 04:25:46 AM
It also seems that heat is not the only thing that contributes to the power, pressure is a factor too. It seems that the ceramic capacitors can act like piezoelectric too.

Wikipedia: "Capacitors, especially ceramic capacitors, and older designs such as paper capacitors, can absorb sound waves resulting in a microphonic effect. Vibration moves the plates, causing the capacitance to vary, in turn inducing AC current. Some dielectrics also generate piezoelectricity. The resulting interference is especially problematic in audio applications, potentially causing feedback or unintended recording. In the reverse microphonic effect, the varying electric field between the capacitor plates exerts a physical force, moving them as a speaker. This can generate audible sound, but drains energy and stresses the dielectric and the electrolyte, if any.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor

I’ve confirmed this with my 104m ceramic capacitor by squeezing my pen against the outer case of the ceramic capacitor on a table. Just like a piezo you must tap pressure against it, just applying a constant pressure does not work.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: blueplanet on January 24, 2011, 04:31:47 AM

You are right, I forgot, that the C capacitance will decrease and that is
why the voltage rises, but as the voltage goes into the energy formula as square
Energy= 0.5 x C x V^2
I guess this nonlinearity can be used to still generate power this way via
heating such caps.


I hope so. I fear that this energy gain has been translated into a temperature rise in a capacitor.

If this is the case, we would most likely gain thermal energy rather electrical energy. After cooling down the capacitor to room temperature (i.e. the thermal energy leaves the capacitor), we end up with nothing.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 24, 2011, 12:02:14 PM
I hope so. I fear that this energy gain has been translated into a temperature rise in a capacitor.

If this is the case, we would most likely gain thermal energy rather electrical energy. After cooling down the capacitor to room temperature (i.e. the thermal energy leaves the capacitor), we end up with nothing.


???

I think you did not understand the principle.

We don´t let it cool down again, it will be always heated and thus it will always convert heat energy
to electrical energy...
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 24, 2011, 12:04:44 PM
@ibpointless2,
thanks for your verification.
Do you know, which dielectricum material your caps have ?

Try to get a few big ones with Y5V.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on January 24, 2011, 12:41:37 PM
If somebody has a storage scope,
please do following test:

Take also 10 x 100 nF Y5V material caps in parallel and charge them up to 10 Volts
from a DC power supply.
Then use a 100 Ohm resistor and discharge the 10x 100 nF capbank via this 100 Ohm resistor
and record the voltage pulse at the resistor with the storage scope.

Now repeat the same task, but after you have charged up the 10x 100 nF capbank
to 10 Volts, just use a hairblower to heat them up and this way charge the
capbank up to 30 Volts.
Then again use the 100 Ohm resistor and record via the storage scope
the discharge voltage curve.

Now then let us compare these 2 scopeshots.

WHich scopeshot does have more area under the voltage discharge curve ?

Theory says, the areas should be equal, but I doubt this.

Unfortunately I don´t have s storage scope yet..


P.S: You can also use a 12 Volts battery to charge it up this way to 12 Volts to start with,
if you don´t have a 10 Volts DC source..
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: blueplanet on January 24, 2011, 06:50:35 PM

???

I think you did not understand the principle.

We don´t let it cool down again, it will be always heated and thus it will always convert heat energy
to electrical energy...

NTC capacitor is probably what you need. It may work. But as I said, this technology is actually being used in satellites.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on January 24, 2011, 07:10:56 PM
Hi All,

I searched through the patent databases and came across a patent which explains the effect of heating capacitors.

Patent# 3147390 "THERMO-ELECTROSTATIC GENERATOR" 1964
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3147390.html

From patent:
"...The dielectric material changes its dielectric constant with changes in temperature so that the capacitance of the capacitor referred to above also changes with temperature.

By charging such a capacitor through suitable conductors connected to the coatings to provide a voltage across the capacitor while the dielectric material thereof is at one temperature and then changing the temperature of the dielectric to decrease the capacitance of the capacitor, the voltage across the capacitor is increased so that a greater increment of electric energy can be withdrawn from the capacitor than was originally delivered into the capacitor during charging.

This involves a conversion of heat energy into electrical energy..."
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 24, 2011, 08:04:46 PM
A video of me showing ceramic capacitors collecting heat and piezoelectric energy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fldbdQr-c5I

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Ghead on March 25, 2011, 02:24:59 PM
HI all just noticed something interesting with this captret effect was messing around and knocked the charged capacitor hooked up to led via top and the led flashed Bright and when tapped continues to flash bright...... checked and all caps ive tried on so far seem to react the same...

is this creating more of a "short" to metal can of cap and could this possibly explain this captret effect??

havn't tested resistances and such while 'tapping' cap...

any thoughts people
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on March 31, 2011, 02:26:53 AM
Hi,
I have recently bought 100 pieces of 0.47 uF ceramic Y5V
caps from
www.segor.de
but had no time yet to solder them together yet.

But will do soon.

Here is another guy who seems to have used this principle:

http://gigawattave.org/

And he also shows in 4 videos, how it works and that it will
deliver more energy, when heated.

Here is his youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/eye75goat


So these ceramic caps are great cheap thermo to electricity converters.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2011, 02:36:50 AM
So, we could paint these flat black and stick them outside in the sun and get more power?  This is great.

Bill
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 31, 2011, 03:35:41 AM
Hi Bill, All,

There is a patent that has an interesting arrangement for using two variable caps and feeding it through a transformer. By shifting the dielectric state back and forth causes it to oscillate putting power through a transformer for the load.

So an idea to test is maybe heat one cap while cooling the second. A small dc motor low rpm with a round cardboard attached. Shade one cap while the other is exposed to the sun.

Patent# 4087735 Solar electric generation using variable capacitors.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4087735.html

Fig 1C shows the flow of current as the dielectric changes.

Fig 2 shows if you put a transformer between you can cycle the energy back and forth while still running a load.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on March 31, 2011, 04:14:28 AM
I think,
we could just easily build a battery charger for e.g. 12 Volts Lead acid
batteries by using such a Y5V ceramic capacitor bank and apply
a fresnel lens to it and heat it up via sunlight.

The put the cap bank via a relay across the cap bank and
the cap bank will charge up to 12 Volts.
Then interrupt the relay so the voltage can rise on the cap.
WHen the voltage is about 30 Volts, just connect again via the relay
the cap bank to the 12 Volts battery and it will deliver
a huge current spike, until the cap bank is again at 12 Volts.
This will charge up the 12 Volt battery.
You only have to make a timer circuit that toggles
the relay every few seconds or minute or so.
So this  is pretty easy to do.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Goat on March 31, 2011, 05:17:54 AM
I think,
we could just easily build a battery charger for e.g. 12 Volts Lead acid
batteries by using such a Y5V ceramic capacitor bank and apply
a fresnel lens to it and heat it up via sunlight.

The put the cap bank via a relay across the cap bank and
the cap bank will charge up to 12 Volts.
Then interrupt the relay so the voltage can rise on the cap.
WHen the voltage is about 30 Volts, just connect again via the relay
the cap bank to the 12 Volts battery and it will deliver
a huge current spike, until the cap bank is again at 12 Volts.
This will charge up the 12 Volt battery.
You only have to make a timer circuit that toggles
the relay every few seconds or minute or so.
So this  is pretty easy to do.

@ hartiberlin

I was researching the ceramic capacitors you mentioned and found the model Y5V here in North America at http://parts.digikey.ca/1/1/1353195-cap-cer-100uf-16v-y5v-2220-c5750y5v1c107z.html

Can you confirm that this is the capacitor(s) you are talking about? 

The price break is very expensive for 1 unit compared to 100...would make sense for people to make a large order...

Price Break    Unit Price    Extended Price
10            6.29000   62.90
100           3.71680   371.68

But still $ 62.90 isn't the end of the world for a small project.  10 caps @ 16V into a battery or into the "Patent# 4087735 Solar electric generation using variable capacitors.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4087735.html" that DreamThinkBuild mentioned.

Can we hook these puppies up to our collective PC CPU's....LOL...you know that might just return enough energy to cut some of our power consumption down.... :P

Regards,
Paul

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: hartiberlin on April 04, 2011, 04:46:16 PM
This is the one I bought:

http://www.segor.de/bilder/000097b4.jpg

u47-R5.0-Y5V
 470nF-50V 20% Y5V RM5
 7,62x5mm, Murata VPE=500

pieces VE   EUR netto   EUR brutto
from 1      0,08   0,10
from 10      0,07   0,08
from 25      0,06   0,07
from 100      0,05   0,06
from  500      0,04   0,05
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Rydan on April 23, 2011, 08:36:31 AM
Hey guys, just a quick hello and  thanks to ibpointless2 for sharing his findings with his captret idea.
His work has re-inspired me to go open my box of old wires , capacitors and batteries and tinker some more.

I don't normally get much time to tinker due to work committments, but I thought Hey WTF it's Easter and I find myself knocking back a few ales with some time on my hands.

I started off just charging a capacitor and discharging through the captret as ibpointless2 shows in his videos, waiting some then discharing the cap again. Interesting concept. So I thought get some high voltage capacitors - a few hundred volts will do - hook up the captret part to a spark gap and adjust so it fires off itself when the captret recharges itself. I dont know much about this phenonmenon but it feels to me as if shorting something or using a spark gap excities this energy - or starts the pump going so to speak.

It seems this energy is intelligent, and seems to react to my state of being. It could be the ale talking but I have noticed that in certain moods (thankfully im a good one most of the time) - eg bad mood. I cant get this affect to manifest.

Which brings me to my second and current experiment.

2 x dead 1.5 volt batteries (non rechargeable type)
2 x 40v -5600uf caps
super bright white led. (The one that hurts your eyes when it's on bright)

I'm not exactly sure of the white led specs but I think it's a 3v 50ma one. when I connect it directly to the batteries in series - reading 2.85v it barely lights up.

I started off using 1 cap (5600uf in captret style) using the led, the light lit brightlly but was draining the battery.
Originally my combined battery voltage was 3.06v, and after stuffing around with the captret leaving it overnight it was down to 2.85v. Time frame 9 hours.   0.21v over 9 hours - or 0.023v ever hour. When I woke up my light still had the same intensity though just now reading 2.85v.

So  I added another 5600uf in captret style to the first cap and repeated the experiment.
Started experiment @1pm. I had to go out so I left it running. Keep in mind no meter was connected to it. I just connect it when I take a reading.

Came home @ 4pm - circuit left running for 3 hours. Retested batteries - were reading 2.85v. Led still at the same light intensity (hurt your eyes bright) batteries cold to the touch. Led not giving off any heat - luke warm if that to the touch. Seems the batteries are not discharging or charging. will have to wait and see. but quite promising so far.

circuit still running as I write this. want to add another cap to see if this will make it charge. Went to electronic store to buy more alligator connection but were out. bought more booze instead. will keep posted.

Thanks for reading, have a great easter :)


 

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Cherryman on April 23, 2011, 01:03:01 PM
Hey guys, just a quick hello and  thanks to ibpointless2 for sharing his findings with his captret idea.......
..
Led still at the same light intensity (hurt your eyes bright) batteries cold to the touch. Led not giving off any heat ...

Thanks for reading, have a great easter :)

You have a small solar panel laying around?  It would be interesting to see if you get any good voltage out of the bright led with your setup. 

Happy easter and experimenting.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Rydan on April 24, 2011, 04:11:12 AM
I do have a small 2v 200ma solar panel and did try to see wat I could get out. unfortunately I could only get around 0.2v from it.
The panel's glass is not flat which probably isn't helping either. I'm hoping to get enough lights going in a formation that I can sit a panel on and power something else off it.

Update on other experiment. (2 captret setup) - Left running 20 hours.
starting voltage 2.85v - End voltage 2.83v.
I am still running this setup, however I have now added a 3rd capacitor to see what happens. starting from 2.83v

Just for interest I have a brand new 6v Lantern Battery I recently purchased which reads 6.53v
I thought it would be nice to have a control, so I grabbed another one (as in an identical one from a pack I bought) of my super bright LED's and just connected it to the battery.

Here's some results

3 cap captret started @ 10:10am reading 2.83v
control led on 6v battery directly connected started @10:45am reading 6.53v

Took a test of both @ 11:18am
3 cap captret steady @ 2.83v after 1h and 8 min run time
control setup battery down to 6.29v after 33min run time.

To be fair, I'd say that the control LED was probably a little brighter than the captret setup for the first 5min, but after that time was not as bright as the captret setup. (Keep in mind that both LED's both very bright though)
Differences - control LED was exhibiting a blue glow. The LED was very hot to the touch - close to burn my fingers hot.

3 Cap setup LED was brighter - it did not diminish in intensity at all. LED was exhibiting a white glow. The LED was luke warm. minimal warmth coming from touching the LED.

Well, definately other things going on there. that's it from me for now. More experimenting ...


Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: schuler on July 12, 2011, 03:51:50 AM
 :) Hello. :)

I've played with captrets for a week now. it seems to me it's a 3 plate capacitor. But I don't understand exactly what is going on.

I was able to verify the "memory effect" reported in the CAPTRET (after using a capacitor as CAPTRET, it self recharges quickly). Self recharging is surprisingly strong. But if you plug a load to use the memory effect as power source, it vanishes after some hours. It's very interesting.

A capacitor shouldn't conduct DC. But when plugging a LED to a CAPTRET like circuit, my multi-test can measure current flowing from the battery's negative to the capacitor's shell. But if it's a 3 plate capacitor, I shouldn't have any DC current!!!

It might be a problem in my measurement device (multi-test). I suspect it works using voltage potentials and not really current. I don't know.

My question is: how can current flow from the battery's negative to the CAPTRET's shell?

:) Please continue your excellent work.  :)
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on July 12, 2011, 10:48:15 AM
The third plate is actually an energy at the outside effect of the two energized plate, since one plate is always not i use so it always make the other one plate to complete number of electrons by pulling at the outside and at the same time make a flow at the third plate.  8)

It always makes pulling effect to sustain the other plate and make flow to the third plate.

conclusion: FREE ENERGY  :P

 ;D
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: schuler on July 12, 2011, 11:36:19 AM
Hi Tito.

 :) Thank you for your reply. :)

The current I get flowing out from the battery is exactly the same that flows into the LED. I've got 2 multimeters to verify and the current flows up and down at the very same time at the very same number.

It seems to me that, instead of reducing voltage, the captret reduces current keeping voltage. That's why it works so well with so called "dead batteries". By the way, captrets are giving new life to dead batteries. I found myself searching for dead batteries. It is of great importance if you can give a new usage to so called "dead batteries". It's economically and environmentally friendly. I would suggest commercial use of captret in flash lights because it efficiently uses dead batteries.

Getting back to the subject, because I see the same current from the battery and into the LED, I'm not seeing free energy nor free electrons. It seems that the external shell some how is connected to internal shells through a resistor. And I'm seeing a voltage drop across the capacitor like a diode would do. I'm not quite sure if I understand what you've written in your last post. In the case you can detail, please do.

Do you know what causes the memory effect? I was able to get both positive and negative "memory" behaviours.

 ::)
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NickZ on July 12, 2011, 08:37:28 PM
  In my Captret projects that I did about a year or so ago, I found that no matter how I used or wired the several 8 or 10 caps used, the load, especially if using more than a single led,  would always still drain the battery.
  Although there may be something to this Captret effect,  all I saw was bulging capacitors, and loss of both voltage as well as current in the batteries.
  Good luck with your tests.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Rydan on March 19, 2012, 03:12:00 AM
Hey guys, just thought I'd add my 2.5 cents about some observations with the captret idea that ibpointless has posted, regarding my own observations from my own experiments.

While it is true the captret loves voltage, it does not like batteries connected in series as the source. I found that the captret can 'see' the source (if it is in series) and will always drain the cap and batteries.

I've found that the captret can power loads for an incredibly long time, but the end result is a totally dead battery.

I will give an example: purchased brand new energizer headlamp consisting of 3 high bright white LED and a single NIGHT Red LED.
It comes with 3x 1.5v batteries unsure of ma/h. It says on the packet that these brand new batteries will power the device on 'White' LED mode for 23 hours.

I connected up a 9v battery reading about 7v to capacitor in normal captret style to power the Light. (powered it in white led mode)
To be fair I'd say that the light coming out of the Device was around about 1/3 of what it would be if it was operated normally with all 3 batteries powering it.

I ran this light at same intensity of about 1/3 brightness for 970 hours,  then the light faded. When I disconnected the battery and measured it. It read in the millivolt range giving random readings. It was like every bit of energy was sucked out of it.

I've found the best use of the energy from the captret is connecting a cap directly to the battery as you would normally to charge it up p-p and n-n. What happens here is that yes the battery will drain somewhat then rise back up and then surpass its starting voltage. then you just tap off the positive and can whilst still connected to the battery. The battery will not drain once the cap is full, it will actually charge. If you connect batteries in series the captret will see the source.

Like Ibpointless pointed out, the captret will power small led's ect for a while  but eventually the power will dissapate as it needs to rest to recharge. So pulsing the power seems to be the go.

This charging effect in parallel arrangement works  well with caps of any voltage and capacitance, however with batteries for the charging effect to work the batteries need to be matched in voltage. I'm not 100% sure about capacity, but have noted  different voltage batteries just drain.

Another thought I had was, well 'If only I had a capacitor that held its voltage without draining, we could tap the captret part forever'. So I theorised that If I charge two caps in parallel from a source and leave them connected in parallel, it might exhibit the charging effect and maintain the voltage. It dosen't. The caps are converting energy from the environment, and they will only start drawing this energy in if the are at a lower potential then the enviroment. Ie; mv. the only way I know how to do this is connect a cap to a battery (and leave it connected) and tap off the captret. I read somewhere on the web that eveready makes a 300v battery, which would be good for a source. I'm not sure if it would work as it is not lead acid, but worth a look anyway. I might buy one next week and see.

I connected 4 caps of different voltages (from 10,000uf to 680uf) and capacitances that had been sitting around for a while. (I shorted them all before starting) Connecting them all in parallel and left overnight. I noticed they hit to 200mv range fairly quickly, within an hour or so of connecting up and a test a few minutes ago theyre at 0.34v and climbing, albiet slowly. I don't know how far these caps will charge on their own.

Hypothetically,  if they were leftalone and somehow did charge up to 2-3v or more, that would be something, but take an extremely long time. I think if we had 50-100 or more caps in parallel doing their environmental charge thing, we could have a circuit to switch from parallel to series every so often. Sure it would require a battery, but just for switching. That way, with say 100 caps drawing in a mere 50mv , you could have a 5v discharge at a resonably good frequency, or for a rediculous amount of caps, you could probably achieve a constant ouput. (Oh, and for anyone interested, I've tested this cap charging effect in the middle of the desert, no where near towns, radio transmitters or anything remotely electrical, and it still works :)

Anyways cheers to Ibpointless, and others who have been working on this idea, it has a lot of potential.









Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: schuler on March 21, 2012, 02:14:57 AM
 :) Hello Explorers. :)

I've done some experiments with captret and I conclude: it's very interesting. But at the same time, I can measure current flowing out of the battery and in the end the LED goes off. So, I believe that there is no OU.

Diodes in general and LEDs in particular are very interesting devices. One remarkable aspect of LEDs is:
Quote
According to their calculations, as the voltage is halved, the input power is decreased by a factor of 4, while the emitted light power scales linearly with voltage so that it’s also only halved. In other words, an LED’s efficiency increases as its output power decreases. (The inverse of this relationship - that LED efficiency decreases as its output power increases - is one of the biggest hurdles in designing bright, efficient LED lights.)

Source: http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-03-efficiency.html

The lower the voltage, the more efficient LEDs get. CAPTRETs are very efficient at powering LEDs and at the same time are efficient at extracting energy from a battery. So, it seems to me that Captrets are not source of OU, but they are very interesting considering the way they extract energy from a battery.


Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: dxer_87 on May 11, 2012, 07:50:41 PM
ibpointless, What You found are 2 things.

1. The capacitor have more capacity than only between + and -. And the additional capacity is between the case and one of the electrods. That's normal. It is even possible to measure this capacity by typical meter. You showed in the first video that the voltage don't drop from the appropriate capacitor. This is a proof that in one cap we actually have two independent. The one between (o) and (-) electrods is just another one with some percentage of capacity of the major cap. The charge in this cap is not because gathering a signal from ZPE or Aether or anything unproved. The charge was supplied when the major capacitor was charged (or recharged by itself) and this is due to imperfection of the cap. So as you mentioned, anyone can use this additional capacitor that is giving some more capacity than the major, but still, the charge comes from the source (because charging process is not 100% efficient and some part of the charge goes to our extra capacitor made of the shield).

2. Capacitors just like batteries are recharging by itself. Because of chemistry inside of a cap (similar to the one in cell battery) processes of recharging itself exist and if battery is in good condition, anyone can try to dissipate this energy from time to time. Still this is not overunity, this is energy coming from chemical processes inside of the battery/cap. But even if this is not OU, it's some kind of free energy that anyone can use. This self recharging effect is exhuastible due to condition of a battery/cap.

I hope I made it brighter. ibpointless, I think it is not about OU to say about third electrode, it is about making electronic much more real than it is in theory. Good job, I think someone should give a try with used cell batteries. I just found energizer 1,5V AAA from 2002 with 1,423V inside. Not that bad to give them second life. I even recharged alkaline battery with very low currents and some of them recharged very well working with small radio unit.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 14, 2012, 08:36:50 AM
:) Hello Explorers. :)

I've done some experiments with captret and I conclude: it's very interesting. But at the same time, I can measure current flowing out of the battery and in the end the LED goes off. So, I believe that there is no OU.

Diodes in general and LEDs in particular are very interesting devices. One remarkable aspect of LEDs is:
Source: http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-03-efficiency.html (http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-03-efficiency.html)

The lower the voltage, the more efficient LEDs get. CAPTRETs are very efficient at powering LEDs and at the same time are efficient at extracting energy from a battery. So, it seems to me that Captrets are not source of OU, but they are very interesting considering the way they extract energy from a battery.

Just a point.  With the work we have done in the JT topic...we learned that leds LOVE high voltage, pulsed as the JT circuits do.  You get more light, and less amp draw then with the conventional designs...and yes...it too will almost totally drain a battery....which is good as you can use "dead" batteries as I do for lighting. (they are free)  This is how I was able to light 400 leds, each one of which "required" 3 volts and 20 mA's using only a JT powered by a single "dead" AA battery.  There may be a relationship here between the JT and the captret circuits....I am not sure.

Bill
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NerzhDishual on September 28, 2012, 11:08:08 PM
Hi People,

A lot of threads here. No?
This looks like a dead thread (last  post March 21 2012). No?

2 days ago, I slumbled upon this "CapTret" story.
I only read the very first page of this thread  and  few at  random posts.
So, I feel free to post. Should I not?  :P
I'm overloaded with more or less usefull information.

Bloating appart, I guess that I caught up the principle.
Figuring out one principle is (most of time) enough.
Only most of time... Yes.

Watching some YouTube vids, I immediately tried to reproduce some circuits (with Leds).
It works pretty well.

I'm now experimenting  (without leds) this "device".
My first results are really amazing.
As a Capacitor experimenter guy (you might consult http://freenrg.info/Condos/ (http://freenrg.info/Condos/))
I want to thank IbPointLess2 for his creativity and his real breakthrough (IMO).

Gwella gourhemennou a-berz Yann
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on September 29, 2012, 01:20:01 AM
Hi People,

A lot of threads here. No?
This looks like a dead thread (last  post March 21 2012). No?

2 days ago, I slumbled upon this "CapTret" story.
I only read the very first page of this thread  and  few at  random posts.
So, I feel free to post. Should I not?  :P
I'm overloaded with more or less usefull information.

Bloating appart, I guess that I caught up the principle.
Figuring out one principle is (most of time) enough.
Only most of time... Yes.

Watching some YouTube vids, I immediately tried to reproduce some circuits (with Leds).
It works pretty well.

I'm now experimenting  (without leds) this "device".
My first results are really amazing.
As a Capacitor experimenter guy (you might consult http://freenrg.info/Condos/ (http://freenrg.info/Condos/))
I want to thank IbPointLess2 for his creativity and his real breakthrough (IMO).

Gwella gourhemennou a-berz Yann




Thank you!  :)


You can post all you want it is ok. If you have any questions feel free to ask.  :)
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: NerzhDishual on September 29, 2012, 03:42:26 AM

@IbPointLess #2,

You are welcome!

Please, think about this:
You can charge a(n electrolytic) cap with an AV (Avramenko) plug.
One wire (or no wire (kinda antenna)) = no current.

Now, your 'normal' Cap modified as a Captret is twice charged. No f' doubt about that!.
Perhaps thirdly charged! Incredible!
Did you try 3 volmeters?
One Voltmeter between the 'normal' plus and minus of the cap.
One Voltmeter between the '0' and 'normal' plus of the cap.
One Voltmeter between the '0' and 'normal' minus of the cap.

You can use cheap meters.
So, skeptics will tell you that this is a ghost charge and that meters are not reliable.
So, you can use a big cap and more voltage.
So, You can ask any skeptic to hand-short circuit between 'O' and the 'plus' of your cap. first,
and then between the '0' and the 'minus'. Not mentioning  between the 'normal' plus and minus of the cap.

A lot of configurations. Indeed. But:
1) 'Normally' charging the cap.
Then shorting out the '0' and the 'plus'
Checking the 3 meters.

2) 'Normally' charging the cap.
Then shorting out the '0' and the 'minus'
Checking the 3 meters.

I did. For the moment I do no believe my eyes.

I'm designing a more precise setup.

Very Best,
Jean
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: tak22 on December 30, 2012, 08:58:25 PM
the Jean Naudin replication and experience:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=fr&to=en&a=http://jnaudin.free.fr/captret/index.htm (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=fr&to=en&a=http://jnaudin.free.fr/captret/index.htm)

tak
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2012, 11:25:13 PM
the Jean Naudin replication and experience:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=fr&to=en&a=http://jnaudin.free.fr/captret/index.htm (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=fr&to=en&a=http://jnaudin.free.fr/captret/index.htm)

tak


Great Work!


I like how you have presented the data, very well done! The captret is merely a oddity, but it gives no free energy. What the Captret really does is makes you think outside the box. Just watch out for some capacitors that will expand and leak, i never had it happen but anything can happen. Its best to use new capacitors as some older ones may have the "capacitor plague".


Keep up the good work!  :)  its always nice to see someone else working the Captret! [size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2012, 11:35:16 PM
Also keep in mind that the captret is a purely voltage thing. Too much current and you destroy the Captret. This is why i would use several 9 volt batteries in series to give me a high voltage. See if you can put some high ohm resistors in the captret circuit so that you don't have too much current flowing inside the captret. Also to get the LED a full brightness you must discharge the captrets leads, use a LED or resistor to do that.



Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: casstete on June 22, 2014, 10:43:31 PM
Also keep in mind that the captret is a purely voltage thing. Too much current and you destroy the Captret. This is why i would use several 9 volt batteries in series to give me a high voltage. See if you can put some high ohm resistors in the captret circuit so that you don't have too much current flowing inside the captret. Also to get the LED a full brightness you must discharge the captrets leads, use a LED or resistor to do that.

IBPointless2's device in combination with a Tesla coil ( reverse ) won a science fair for Students in Cyprus .

Electrical engineers ( PHD's frm University of Cyprus ) scratching their heads saying " this should not be possible " Locked away the Captret with multiple caps & Reverse Tesla coil + 12 V Motorbike Battery was running for over 2 Months !


I showed a friend the Captret & with some ideas he & I played with he incorporated a reverse tesla coil .

They use a 12 V Battery 10Amps and connect 20 something LED .

this is at a Cyprus University now and has been running for over 2 Months maintaining a charge of +- 10 Volt .

Here is the thing , it is acting like a Lenzless device or like ANY real free energy device , the more it uses the less it requires naturally all in relation to components .

Remove the reverse Tesla coil and it shuts down .

He will be posting videos and I will try to update more  here . It seems the device now doesn't deplete !
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on June 22, 2014, 10:55:08 PM
The story about electrical engineers scratching their heads and not understanding something is an old cliche.  I have read it many times with respect to the pulse motor scene.

If your data is well documented it should be explainable.  That's the challenge, it's to see past what at first appears to be extraordinary results and investigate further and arrive at an understanding.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: casstete on June 23, 2014, 10:49:33 AM
The story about electrical engineers scratching their heads and not understanding something is an old cliche.  I have read it many times with respect to the pulse motor scene.

If your data is well documented it should be explainable.  That's the challenge, it's to see past what at first appears to be extraordinary results and investigate further and arrive at an understanding.

MileHigh
Yea we know that thanks for sharing , seen as 90% of Hero members here never understood the Pulse Motor and still don't I shall just say thanks for that .

This device uses less from source the more the Load requires . When you have that Super Hero ... you have overunity .

Not Rocket science thats what one observes in Bedini , Lenzless , Back EMF & you name it devices .

You still correct , but show me the captret with 12 V Battery running in locked University room for over 2 Months 25 + Led ( not much i know ) still charging after that period .

ALL others loose the potential after few days and don't charge again .

So since you know that a Bedini spins faster at full moon .... and that the more power the load takes the less is required from the source .

You should think for yourself . But you guys have a serious misunderstanding of how this energy flows and works and it has NOTHING to do with the electrical technology we surround us with that is designed for inverse technology to nature or life .

Bish bash bosh ... I feel you for saying what you did . I also believe it needs more investigation but it's done things I never expected when I showed him IBPoinless captret .

We did discuss atmopsheric antenna .. and his idea of adding tesla coil  .

By the way all the people with real devices say the same . Be it Bedini , Jean Louis Naudin who tested multiple Lenzless ,Back emf , pulse , Hydroxy HHO , fuel cells , is it Badcock the guy with the Lindemann , Bedini crew .

Basically every one who uses his brain & opens his eyes .

So like most Pro's here ( and some agent provocateur ) you don't appreciate that the output of these devices is determined by
1. the device
2. the correct balance of all components
3 very important ... the source . The potential within the source to absorb ( batteries ) .

A Full Battery in Bedini takes MORE energy from the source than an empty one
At full moon the Bedini spins faster ... more RPM registered

So I see all you guys checking the energy from behind the device .... as IF this would tell you the potential of the device .

WHAT A NEWBIE mistake ... Newbie to reality as shown experimentally to EVERYONE who cares
 :-*
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Farmhand on June 26, 2014, 12:48:25 AM
The cap-tret is not Over Unity, no one has shown any in - out measurements to support OU, you measure the power out of the battery
and the power consumed by the load to get efficiency, you don't set an LED to work powered by a battery and a oddly connected
capacitor and just see how long it runs then declare OU.

As well as that it is now known that the cap-tret effect destroys the capacitors, by using the can it puts stresses on the capacitor
it cannot take.

I can use my cricket bat to hit rocks over the fence and into the bush to get rid of them, much easier than throwing them and easier than carrying them all, but it will destroy my cricket bat because it is not intended to be used like that.

None of John Bedini's arrangements are OU either, no proof of any OU whatsoever.

...

Quote of Nikola Tesla which is pertinent here.

Quote
It is just like this: I have invented a knife.  The knife can cut with the sharp edge.  I tell the man who applies my invention, you must cut with the sharp edge.  I know perfectly well you can cut butter with the blunt edge, but my knife is not intended for this.

..

Here's a tip, if you cut bread with the blunt side of the knife the bread will last longer, but the loaf might get destroyed or flattened. No matter as long as it lasts longer.  ;)

.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on June 26, 2014, 01:22:59 AM
Casstete:

You did repeat several claims, and I assume that you meant them.  Those claims when scrutinized properly fall flat.  For example, the pulse motor claim about drawing less input when there is greater output into the charging battery is a classic.  The people that do that are forgetting to account for the lost power as heat.

Some types of capacitors spontaneously self-charge.  There is energy in the air.  I think that is were the answer to the "captret mystery" could be found.

This is the thought experiment:  Someone has a nice bench experiment set up that they believe is over unity.  They call in someone for a second opinion.  That person makes proper measurements and gives a logical explanation for what is happening.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: casstete on June 26, 2014, 11:26:59 AM
Casstete:

You did repeat several claims, and I assume that you meant them.  Those claims when scrutinized properly fall flat.  For example, the pulse motor claim about drawing less input when there is greater output into the charging battery is a classic.  The people that do that are forgetting to account for the lost power as heat.

----  the wheel spins faster ! and draws less , goes together yes -----

Some types of capacitors spontaneously self-charge.  There is energy in the air.  I think that is were the answer to the "captret mystery" could be found.

This is the thought experiment:  Someone has a nice bench experiment set up that they believe is over unity.  They call in someone for a second opinion.  That person makes proper measurements and gives a logical explanation for what is happening.

MileHigh

O for fucks sake , try and read yes . This device is tested by Cypriot Electrical PHD's who studies in renowned British Universities .

Cyprus has the 2nd highest academic population the world FYI and these guys tested iy ... not someone !

Then they left it for 2 MONTHS locked ( by mistake ) switched on ... and it is still running today 3.5 months later .

IF you make ANY changes to how many Leds are connected .. or remove one or the other capacitor it looses potential .

Yes there is energy in the air and yes capacitors always have potential when heated as they are chemical based as well .

I know this as a layman as well but the thing is they using a 12 V battery ( I told him ... maybe it's just cause it has more to offer that it runs longer ) but 3.5 Months ? still charging when using electricity ... all Lights ( 22 LED ) still shining bright .

The Battery only goes to 10 Volt so it's not even optimised .


The Captret is based on a Tesla Switch yes ? So the switch is just creating a potential " to be absorbed " BUT you have to create a receiver for this energy .

THIS is what has always been the problem , creating radiant energy from very little is easy .... capturing it or converting it is NOT .

Thats why Plants & humans + animals are designed the way they are , we are precursor engineered for such devices .

ALSO , is a 3 Volt Battery the same as a Lead Acid 12 V Bike battery ?

I was skeptical because I know the captret depletes .... but we had discussed atmosperic antennas placed in the circuit and also reverse tesla coils potential to absorb IF you have a ionised circuit ( i hope u get what i mean terminology may be off )

And the 12 Volt battery doesn't heat up absorbed energy .

Ok so point is .... heat of capacitors does not account for 3.5 month 22 LED brightly lit & 10 Volt constant recharge .

Does it . ONLY thing you can say is SHOW IT .

And that is true and I am working on getting him to make a second one as the prototype is locked away for holidays "still running "

regards



Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: casstete on June 26, 2014, 11:49:39 AM
Casstete:

This is the thought experiment:  Someone has a nice bench experiment set up that they believe is over unity.  They call in someone for a second opinion.  That person makes proper measurements and gives a logical explanation for what is happening.

MileHigh

Thats exactly where you didn't read properly , the second part " call someone for second proper opinion " is the Cyprus Island wide comity of engineers who choose which project wins  ... they checked it and awarded the prize

AND they were told by my friend that it was based on IBPointless2 device ...  So it's not even me or my friend telling you this it's UK University educated PHD's ... who are still thick in my opinion but since that what you think is required ( in some respect i agree ) but in general they are totally brainwashed foold .

The longer you stay in school ... the more you become a indoctrinated fool
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: TinselKoala on June 26, 2014, 03:54:55 PM
I want to see some data that demonstrates this claim that "bedini motors run faster during the full moon."

Data that supports that claim would have to show RPM readings taken from a Bedini setup, powered by _the same regulated power source _, during each day of the monthly lunar cycle and would have to show a significant difference between the RPMs at Full Moon and at New Moon, at least. Where is this data? A single graph of, say, a year's daily samples should show the effect easily enough.

Where is the data to support this claim?

If you cannot support the claim with real data, you have no business making it.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Qwert on June 26, 2014, 05:33:47 PM
IBPointless2's device in combination with a Tesla coil ( reverse ) won a science fair for Students in Cyprus .


casstete, would you like to provide a link for this info? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on June 26, 2014, 06:20:39 PM
Quote
The longer you stay in school ... the more you become a indoctrinated fool

Only on the Bizarro planet, where the objective is to become dumber the more you go to school.

I guess that you don't have direct access to the experiment and the data.  Where are you getting your information from?  I can't prejudge a specific experiment without access to the correct and complete information.

What I can say is that if a decent-sized 12-volt battery is connected to a string of LEDs in series, and the setup is just right, then the battery and the LEDs can engage in a "dance of death" and it's possible that the LEDs can remain dimly lit for a very long time, perhaps even months.  That could explain what was observed.

For the argument that the battery is being "recharged," I have seen countless experiments where the battery is clearly discharging but the experimenter notices a slight increase in the battery voltage during the test.  They then proudly proclaim that the battery is being "recharged."  It's possible that the same thing is happening in this case.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret Demystified
Post by: Vortex1 on June 26, 2014, 06:45:46 PM
The operation of the so misnamed "*captret" is easily explained if folks would just use a milliamp meter to measure the current drain of the battery. The battery is not being charged, rather the load on the battery is progressively decreased so the voltage rises.

If the battery were being charged, the milliampmeter would reverse sign. This is not the case.

What happens is this:

The "captret" configuration of using the outer case and the negative electrode presents initially a very leaky capacitor to the series circuit, more like a capacitor with a variable resistor. This initially creates a lot of current flow and slightly warms the battery activating the electrochemical output.

As the oxide layer is formed between the case and the negative electrode, the leakage decreases from initially about 300mA to the range of 1 to 5 mA. Even less leakage can be had if left on for a very long time, so an LED can be lit on less than 1 mA for a very long time.

Because of the reduced load on the battery, the battery voltage is seen to rise. This is a simple load line as the battery is not a perfect voltage source, and much less so when the battery is near the end of it's life.

There is no mystery here, just poor measurement technique and mis-observations of what is occurring.

You could  get the same "effect" with a variable resistor instead of the "captret" Use two nearly dead 9 volt batteries with about 7.5 volts each in series.

Adjust the potentiometer of the simple series circuit to simulate an initial 300mA current drain then over a few minutes reduce it to 1 mA current drain. Do this while observing battery voltage.

You will also see the battery voltage appear to rise due to reduced loading. This also is not recharging as the current meter never changes sign.

* This is a misnomer as the so called "captret" is actually a very poor electret in that it has way too much leakage to be any good, orders of magnitude more leakage than a good electrolytic or film capacitor. It's recovery is limited by this.
Title: Re: Captret Demystified
Post by: Vortex1 on June 27, 2014, 11:12:33 PM
Did a test on another capacitor in "captret" configuration monitoring current from a 10 volt source.

Initial current:        equivalent leakage resistance:
 
100mA                     100 ohms

One minute later:

10mA                       1000 ohms

Two Minutes

1 mA                        10,000 ohms

Three minutes

0.1 mA                     100,000 ohms

As the oxide layer forms the leakage resistance progressively goes up as current goes down.

At no time did the current ever reverse, even after one hour when the leakage was less than 0.1 mA. So there is no battery charging effect.

As I said in the previous post the "captret " acts like a variable resistor changing resistance upward over time hence presenting a much lower load on the battery from the initial connection.

The reduced current over time causes the battery voltage to increase giving the illusion that the battery is being charged....it is not.

A high brightness led fed from a 9 volt battery will be lit for a very long time  when operated at less than 0.1 mA.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Paul-R on June 29, 2014, 03:31:40 PM
I want to see some data that demonstrates this claim that "bedini motors run faster during the full moon."

Data that supports that claim would have to show RPM readings taken from a Bedini setup

The SG is not a motor; it is a generator of radiant energy. The RPM is not relevant. The wheel's motion is to trigger the transistor.  It is the rate of charging of the battery that counts, taking into account the rate of discharge of the drivng battery.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on June 29, 2014, 03:46:13 PM
Quote
The SG is not a motor; it is a generator of radiant energy.

It is not a generator of "radiant energy," that is complete nonsense.  The SG is a very crappy battery charger in terms of power-in to power-out efficiency.  It is typically only 30% efficient and 70% of the source battery power is lost as waste heat to make the wheel spin.

In the entire world of electronics, and electrical technology in general, the output from a discharging coil is never referred to as "radiant energy."

In your mind you probably think that there is something "amazing and different" about the "radiant energy spike."  Well the truth is that that is complete and total nonsense.

My suggestion to you is to learn about how a coil works so that you can understand why and under what conditions a coil can generate a high voltage spike.

It's time for you and many others like you to demystify this Bedini nonsense where he calls the output from a coil, "radiant energy."  That makes it sound like it comes from "somewhere else," possibly even the "vacuum."  The source of the energy for the voltage spike is the battery.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Paul-R on June 29, 2014, 04:37:17 PM
It is not a generator of "radiant energy," that is complete nonsense.
Please provide the evidence for this remark.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 29, 2014, 04:45:22 PM
Please provide the evidence for this remark.

Well, I have built several Bedini motors and ALL of them end up depleting the batteries after running for a period of time.  They are really cool and amaze my friends but, ALL of them destroyed my batteries (2 of them very expensive brand new motorcycle batteries) such that they could no longer be used in a conventional way.  I had very high rpm's and very high voltage spikes and could light up the neon but it appeared that the charging battery was only getting a "surface charge" and, despite what my meters were showing, they did not have any power at all.  I think this is typical of these motors from my reading.

I like John Bedini and I think he has done a lot of good for energy research and he appears to be a nice guy as well.  The above is my own experiences from my own experiments and anyone can watch my videos if they so choose.

Bill
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on June 29, 2014, 05:17:36 PM
Paul:

Quote
Please provide the evidence for this remark.

Sure, the coil gets energized by the source battery.  The coil stores the energy supplied by the battery.  That's how coils work.

Then when the transistor switches off, the coil discharges into the charging battery.  It could be a low voltage spike barely above the nominal voltage of he charging battery, or it could be a high-voltage spike if the battery is dead and sulfated.  That's how coils work.

The output voltage of a discharging coil depends on the nature of the load it's connected to.  In theory, an ideal coil could produce nearly zero volts output when it discharges or it could produce and infinite voltage output when it discharges, it all depends on the nature of the load.

The hard evidence is the equation that describes the output voltage from a coil:  V = L di/dt.

"The voltage output from a coil is proportional to the product of the inductance of the coil and the rate of change of current flow though the coil with respect to time."

That equation tells you how a coil can generate a voltage spike.  This has absolutely nothing to do with radiant energy.

Bedini intentionally refuses to explain to all of his followers how a coil actually works because it is not in his financial interest.  He would prefer that you all remain ignorant and believe in the "superstition" about "radiant energy" and Bedini motors.

Some of the Bedini enthusiasts have to teach themselves or even go to a Beini conference and challenge Bedini to teach his followers how a coil actually works.

It's time to stop talking this "radiant energy" nonsense when it comes to Bedini motors, it's truly ridiculous.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: TinselKoala on June 29, 2014, 06:05:19 PM
It rather depends on just how you define "radiant energy", doesn't it? Certainly all devices that produce coil ringing phenomena also produce "radiant energy" : RF noise, which definitely radiates, is definitely energy, and definitely can be picked up at a distance by suitable means. I have illustrated this fact many times with many different devices, even the MHOP "better than Bedini" pulse motor.  Even, you may recall, with Little Miss Mosfet's silly kludge.

The "radiant energy", which is, in my definition, high voltage high frequency noise of more or less spectral purity, is easy to produce and easy to distinguish from the "regular energy" which manifests as a DC offset and/or a low frequency AC component of the signal being talked about.

Give me some examples of "radiant energy" and each one will show, on careful analysis, that it is "HVRF" carrier and/or noise that is being demonstrated.

 ;)

(Yes... the primary is a true Tesla bifilar-wound solenoidal coil.)

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on June 29, 2014, 07:53:27 PM
TK:

It's possible that you showed the origins of the "hook."  Almost all free energy experimenters marvel at the near-field radiation of a Tesla coil.  It is so cool to see a neon light illuminate in the strong AC electric field.  Many of them have absolutely no understanding of what is going on and so the catch-all phrase that is used is "radiant energy."  The fact that sometimes the neon only lights up when you touch something with it means that there can be "radiant energy" in physical things like tables and chairs and the battery itself!  OooOoOOooooooOOoooooo that "radiant energy" is so neat and so cool!

Then Bedini notes that in the very simple pulse motor that bears his name, neon lights can also be made to illuminate if you disconnect the charging battery.  OoooOoOoOOOoooooooo that must also be "radiant energy" too!

It seems like a reasonable conjecture: Bedini hijacked the term "radiant energy" to make gullible people think that a simple, basic pulse motor is something special.  He will NOT TELL YOU why and how the coil is making the neon light up.  It grosses me out.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Vortex1 on June 30, 2014, 02:17:25 PM
Milehigh said:
Quote
It seems like a reasonable conjecture: Bedini hijacked the term "radiant energy" to make gullible people think that a simple, basic pulse motor is something special.  He will NOT TELL YOU why and how the coil is making the neon light up.  It grosses me out.

I completely agree with your sentiments about B@#$%i. and "radiant energy"

However this thread was also hijacked from "captret" to "radiant energy" and my posts #336 and #337 were completely glossed over by the good old boys ferver to discuss "radiant energy".
Not a peep, even though experiment, data and a plausible explanation was presented.

I suppose if your not a "youtube poser" you don't get taken seriously on this forum.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Paul-R on June 30, 2014, 04:13:44 PM
Well, I have built several Bedini motors and ALL of them end up depleting the batteries after running for a period of time.
Were the batteries lead acid and were they conditioned before you started taking serious readings? Did you follow their directions to the letter and put your disappointing results to them for comment? A strength of JB is that he has set up good support arrangements.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Paul-R on June 30, 2014, 04:14:52 PM
Paul:

Sure, the coil gets energized by the source battery.  The coil stores the energy supplied by the battery.  That's how coils work.

This isn't evidence. Try again.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on July 01, 2014, 12:16:20 AM
Paul:

How about this:

I can hold a capacitor in my hand and connect a resistor across it and it will discharge the stored energy.

I can hold a coil in my hand and connect a resistor across it and it will discharge the stored energy.  The waveform for the inductor discharge can be identical to the waveform of the capacitor discharge.

So where is the "radiant energy?"  Who said that discharging a coil produces "radiant energy?"  After all, you can make measurements that show that the battery supplied the energy to the coil.  The math for the discharge for the coil and the capacitor is all worked out.

Find references for a coil producing "radiant energy" when it discharges.  I mean references outside of the groups of people that are Bedini motor enthusiasts or free energy enthusiasts.  Can you?

What is your definition of "radiant energy?"  I mean your real definition, not just some catch phrase.

If you hold two fingers across the two coil terminals of a regular 12-volt relay and then you disconnect the power, you feel a high-voltage shock.  It's fairly strong and can hurt a bit.  What's going on there?  Is that "radiant energy?"

Show me one Bedini motor experiment where an experimenter measures the average power input from the source battery, and they also measure the average power output to the charging battery.  That would measure the efficiency of the motor.  Can you provide any links?

The whole "Bedini radiant energy" concept is false.  A Bedini motor charges a battery through pulses of current with a measurable and fixed amount of energy when it it is running in a steady state.  How often do Bedini motor enthusiasts attempt to measure the amount of energy in each charging pulse?

The burden of proof is on you to prove that inductor discharges, one of the most basic fundamental concepts in electronics, are "radiant energy."

My feeling is that you are stating that because that's what you heard from Bedini.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: TinselKoala on July 01, 2014, 01:30:26 AM
Milehigh said:
I completely agree with your sentiments about B@#$%i. and "radiant energy"

However this thread was also hijacked from "captret" to "radiant energy" and my posts #336 and #337 were completely glossed over by the good old boys ferver to discuss "radiant energy".
Not a peep, even though experiment, data and a plausible explanation was presented.

I suppose if your not a "youtube poser" you don't get taken seriously on this forum.
Not glossed over, but rather much appreciated and impossible to argue with. What can you say when there is nothing to be said?   ;)
It would be great if  more people would follow your example and do real experiments and report all their data.
Title: Re: Captret Demystified
Post by: Farmhand on July 01, 2014, 05:01:39 AM
Did a test on another capacitor in "captret" configuration monitoring current from a 10 volt source.

Initial current:        equivalent leakage resistance:
 
100mA                     100 ohms

One minute later:

10mA                       1000 ohms

Two Minutes

1 mA                        10,000 ohms

Three minutes

0.1 mA                     100,000 ohms

As the oxide layer forms the leakage resistance progressively goes up as current goes down.

At no time did the current ever reverse, even after one hour when the leakage was less than 0.1 mA. So there is no battery charging effect.

As I said in the previous post the "captret " acts like a variable resistor changing resistance upward over time hence presenting a much lower load on the battery from the initial connection.

The reduced current over time causes the battery voltage to increase giving the illusion that the battery is being charged....it is not.

A high brightness led fed from a 9 volt battery will be lit for a very long time  when operated at less than 0.1 mA.

I second what TK said, very refreshing to see actual test data with the relevant parameters measured.

I have a question, or three  :-[.

Does the test data mean that the capacitor is effectively destroyed in about three minutes ?

Or does the oxide layer not have such an effect on the capacitor, I mean is a capacitor that is used in a "cap-tret" arrangement ok
to then use in another project that requires a capacitor in good condition ?

I guess the point is two fold-- 1. why does such a big change happen in such a short space of time (oxide layer)
and-- 2. is it reversible ?

Cheers
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Vortex1 on July 01, 2014, 03:05:10 PM
Farmhand asked:
Quote
I have a question, or three  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/embarrassed.gif (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/embarrassed.gif)).

Does the test data mean that the capacitor is effectively destroyed in about three minutes ?

Or does the oxide layer not have such an effect on the capacitor, I mean is a capacitor that is used in a "cap-tret" arrangement ok
to then use in another project that requires a capacitor in good condition ?

I guess the point is two fold-- 1. why does such a big change happen in such a short space of time (oxide layer)
and-- 2. is it reversible ?

Thanks for your interest. As long as the case is positive and the minus terminal is negative, and current and voltage is limited, the capacitor wil not be destroyed. It is usually only the outer wrap of the negative terminal that is involved in the reaction.

The reaction happens quickly because it is only one wrap and the outer case involved. If you try to reverse it by reversing polarity, you may harm the outer layer of the negative wrap. I will try this in time and report back.

Any electrolytic capacitor that has been sitting on the shelf a long time, such as new old stock (NOS) will have a high initial leakage until the oxide layers form completely.

When plugging in an old radio , amplifier or any old electronic equipment that has been sitting around a long time, it is good practice to bring it up slowly with a variac or light bulb in series with the device to limit current until the oxide layers completely reform. If excessive current is drawn by plugging in directly, the filter electrolytics can short or even explode. I have watched this current drain with a power meter and you would be surprised how hot the big electrolytics can get until they are "formed". There is a big difference in power drawn before and after "forming".

I have had good luck in most cases reforming electrolytics in old equipment without having to replace them by bringing the voltage up very slowly or current limiting the input power. The capacitors will slowly reform and after an hour or so draw normal current. The equipment then can be operated normally.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Paul-R on July 01, 2014, 04:24:04 PM
Paul:

How about this:

I can hold a capacitor in my hand and connect a resistor across it and it will discharge the stored energy.

I can hold a coil in my hand and connect a resistor across it and it will discharge the stored energy.  The waveform for the inductor discharge can be identical to the waveform of the capacitor discharge.

So where is the "radiant energy?"  Who said that discharging a coil produces "radiant energy?"  After all, you can make measurements that show that the battery supplied the energy to the coil.  The math for the discharge for the coil and the capacitor is all worked out.

Find references for a coil producing "radiant energy" when it discharges.  I mean references outside of the groups of people that are Bedini motor enthusiasts or free energy enthusiasts.  Can you?

What is your definition of "radiant energy?"  I mean your real definition, not just some catch phrase.

If you hold two fingers across the two coil terminals of a regular 12-volt relay and then you disconnect the power, you feel a high-voltage shock.  It's fairly strong and can hurt a bit.  What's going on there?  Is that "radiant energy?"

Show me one Bedini motor experiment where an experimenter measures the average power input from the source battery, and they also measure the average power output to the charging battery.  That would measure the efficiency of the motor.  Can you provide any links?

The whole "Bedini radiant energy" concept is false.  A Bedini motor charges a battery through pulses of current with a measurable and fixed amount of energy when it it is running in a steady state.  How often do Bedini motor enthusiasts attempt to measure the amount of energy in each charging pulse?

The burden of proof is on you to prove that inductor discharges, one of the most basic fundamental concepts in electronics, are "radiant energy."

My feeling is that you are stating that because that's what you heard from Bedini.

MileHigh
.
You flatter yourself when you imagine that I can be bothered.
.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on July 01, 2014, 05:37:27 PM
Paul:

Quote
You flatter yourself when you imagine that I can be bothered.

Bullcrap.  You are just being dismissive and rude because you can't respond with a coherent argument about a Berdini motor charging a battery with "radiant energy."  You just want to forget this ever took place so in a month you can tell some newbie about the "radiant energy" and sound authoritative.

Like a horse with blinders on.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Johan_1955 on July 01, 2014, 06:21:39 PM
It is not a generator of "radiant energy," that is complete nonsense.  The SG is a very crappy battery charger in terms of power-in to power-out efficiency.  It is typically only 30% efficient and 70% of the source battery power is lost as waste heat to make the wheel spin.

In the entire world of electronics, and electrical technology in general, the output from a discharging coil is never referred to as "radiant energy."

In your mind you probably think that there is something "amazing and different" about the "radiant energy spike."  Well the truth is that that is complete and total nonsense.

My suggestion to you is to learn about how a coil works so that you can understand why and under what conditions a coil can generate a high voltage spike.

It's time for you and many others like you to demystify this Bedini nonsense where he calls the output from a coil, "radiant energy."  That makes it sound like it comes from "somewhere else," possibly even the "vacuum."  The source of the energy for the voltage spike is the battery.

MileHigh
Hi Nicky,

We learn so much from you, and learned from you!

We all would like to see some hard-copy evidence:From your Bedini building, testing and later the communication with John Bedini directly, approachable he is at his forum!
To confront him with your SG or what ever Bedini experience!

So you complete always, could it be fast!?


Regards, Johan
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on July 02, 2014, 01:46:39 AM
Hey Sprinkles:

A Bedini motor is nothing more than a mechanical timing device to energize an inductor and then have the inductor discharge a pulse of current into a charging battery.  So the only question is, is the discharge of energy a pulse of current or "radiant energy."  I co-designed a pulse motor that is far superior to a Bedini motor with TinselKola.  It's more efficient, it's more flexible, and it can out-spike any Bedini motor.  You can find the thread by searching on "MHOP" here and on TinselKoala's videos.

As a suggestion, try spending half a day surfing and learn all you can about discharging inductors.  Learn the "secret" about how they generate high-voltage spikes.  Once informed, another suggestion is to start a thread on Bedini's forum and debate the issue with the people there.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Paul-R on July 02, 2014, 02:36:04 PM

A Bedini motor is nothing more than a ...

The SG is not a motor, dick head.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: tinman on July 02, 2014, 02:45:31 PM
The SG is not a motor, dick head.
The SG is an electric motor-you ow MH an apology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBvUoRPsQ-4
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: tinman on July 02, 2014, 02:58:38 PM
The !radiant energy! thing could be seen like this. When power is passed through an inductor,a magnetic field radiates outward from the inductor.When the power is cut from the inductor,that radiant magnetic field collapses,and causes current to flow through the inductors wire.

The reason we get a high voltage from the inductive kickback when the load is of high resistance,is because the magnetic field  collapses very fast around the inductor-due to the light load. If we have a load with low resistance,the magnetic field collapses slower,and we get a greater current.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: MileHigh on July 03, 2014, 12:33:09 AM
The SG is not a motor, dick head.

You are playing the fool with the potty mouth.  You have not responded with anything to back up your claim so I have to assume that you are parroting what have been told with no understanding of what you are saying.

From the YouTube clip:

Quote
In the full length DVD, lasting almost 3 hours, John Bedini, the inventor and Patent holder, describes his thinking since 1955 as he painstakingly developed his energizer, popularly known as the SG Machine.  An apparatus that produces battery power by charging one or more secondary batteries from a single primary battery and that captures and utilizes what Tesla termed "radiant" energy. Shown for the first time are his underlying concepts, which lead to the demonstration of several new circuits, and their component values, never before shown in public.

Three lies right there.  A Bedini motor typically turns 70% of the source battery power into waste heat.  It doesn't "produce battwery power."  It doesn't capture anything, it just discharges some source battery energy and turns it into less net charging energy for the charging battery.   No "radiant energy" anywhere, it's nothing more than a discharging inductor.

For what it's worth, Vortex1 did a great analysis of how a "captret" works and showed that it is nothing special.  There is no true "capret" just like there is no "radiant energy" in the context of a simple Bedini pulse motor.  Likewise, there is no such thing as a "delayed Lenz effect."  That was analyzed and explained by Conradelectro working with some people on a thread, including myself.

Those are examples of people coming together and learning and progressing.  If you parrot "radiant energy" to a newbie person curious about a Bedini motor you are propagating the cycle of peer ignorance.  It's like being stuck in the "Bedini Stone Age."  There is a real world out there.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Vortex1 on July 03, 2014, 03:31:27 AM
Thanks for noticing MH

Back in the day, automobiles would have a deviation type amp meter that read -/+

If current was flowing out of the battery, the meter read minus.

If current was flowing into the battery, the meter read plus.

The same thing can be done with a DMM set to amps or milli-amps scale.

Just put the negative lead of the DMM on the plus of the battery, the positive lead of the DMM is now the new battery plus terminal.

If current is flowing out of the battery, the meter reads minus (value).

If current is flowing into the battery, the meter read plus (value).

The meter can be buffered with a large capacitor if pulses are present, but it will still show the average and the direction of flow.

Another method is the use of a current shunt resistor with the meter set to volts or millivolts, depending on the value of of the resistor. Then current flow and amount out of or into the battery can be easily seen.

These are real time measurements that do not rely on battery electro chemistry quirks.

Why no one initially did this with the "captret" is beyond me, as it is the first measurement (along with battery voltage) that any serious researcher would make, and would instantly put to rest any claims of the "captret" charging the battery.  This is nothing special, just common sense, level 101 stuff.

Regarding the JB stuff, snake oil comes in many flavors and there is a "sucker born every minute". He must seriously have to do his best to not break up laughing and keep a straight face in his videos,as surely he can't be that deluded. I guess the laughing he does is on the way to the bank.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Farmhand on July 03, 2014, 06:58:53 AM
Vortex1, I think the reason those tests were never done is because they know intuitively or maybe subconsciously that the
capacitor cannot possibly actually charge the battery by exerting a potential difference across the battery greater than the
batteries original potential difference and so they know the capacitor cannot produce a current flow back to the battery.
Knowing this they must rationalize the charging as just "anomalous" or something and use run times and rising voltages only as
evidence of the claims. If people would just observe the voltage of a battery closely while it is loaded normally for some time with
a range of loads then they would see how batteries actually behave and have that knowledge to call on. I've shown batteries
with rising voltages while providing over 2 amps to a load just to illustrate the rising battery voltage while under a constant load
thing, if we add a reducing load as well then the result is inevitable.

..

Nice catch MileHigh, That is written lies with the intention to deceive for profit right there. Anyone with even a basic understanding
of electricity can see that Bedini's stuff has no relation to Tesla's "Radiant Energy Receiver/Utilization Method" patents. Nothing
whatsoever not even close to being similar.
Tis sad they can get away with it, seems like it must be condoned to me, surely it's not legal.

MileHigh, if a patent like Bedini's is lodged and as it is claimed, he says it is based on Tesla's radiant energy arrangements then
shouldn't Bedini's patent cite Tesla's Patent as "Prior Art" ?

I've never even seen the SG patent, the patent should explain how the device harnesses the "radiant energy", I'll look for the
patent out of curiosity.

Quote
From the YouTube clip:

Quote
In the full length DVD, lasting almost 3 hours, John Bedini, the inventor and Patent holder, describes his thinking since 1955 as he painstakingly developed his energizer, popularly known as the SG Machine.  An apparatus that produces battery power by charging one or more secondary batteries from a single primary battery and that captures and utilizes what Tesla termed "radiant" energy. Shown for the first time are his underlying concepts, which lead to the demonstration of several new circuits, and their component values, never before shown in public.

.

P.S. I've taken the Bedini conversation over to the Bedini Notes Thread in the Mechanic section.

..
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Paul-R on July 03, 2014, 02:45:40 PM
The SG is an electric motor-you ow MH an apology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBvUoRPsQ-4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBvUoRPsQ-4)
The only time the word "motor" is used in this video is at a time of 3.53

JB wishes to force the wheel to run at his specified speed, and uses fan blades to slow it down.  Since, under these research conditions, the device is converting some of the electrical energy into kinetic energy, the increased speed of the air, then it is behaving as a sort of motor.

The SG is a mechanical oscillator designed to generate spikes which are fed to a battery. If you don't believe me, ask him at
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48 (http://www.energyscienceforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48)
.
.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Farmhand on July 03, 2014, 09:34:27 PM
Paul if you had followed the conversation over to the Bedini SG notes thread you would know that in the patent John calls the device
a Monopole Motor, funny maybe he couldn't get it patented as an energizer seeing as how it is a motor and fits the description of a
motor to the letter. US 6545444. Look it up and read it.

..

Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: TinselKoala on July 03, 2014, 10:43:48 PM
I'll post the video of the Rotorless Better-than-Bedini MHOP definitely Not-A-Motor (since it has no moving parts) spike generator in the other thread, then.


Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: Paul-R on July 04, 2014, 03:05:03 PM
Paul if you had followed the conversation over to the Bedini SG notes thread

a Monopole Motor, funny maybe he couldn't get it patented as an energizer seeing as how it is a motor and fits the description of a motor to the letter. US 6545444. Look it up and read it.

Well, I haven't. It is not wise to assume info in another thread. It reminds me of an old French proverb which says something along these lines: With an "if" like that, you could put the Eiffel Tower into a jam jar".

I concede that the SG has an element of "motorness". When the coil gives the magnets an electromagnetic shove, to keep the wheel rotating, it is acting as a motor. But you cannot say that the device is a motor, whatever JB says. He lacks the power to change the meaning of words.

If a strong wind catches your umbrella and pushes you forward, does that make the umbrella a sail? Does that make all umbrellas sails?

The reason why I harp on about this is because the JB people are driven crazy by people calling the SG a motor. It shows that they fail to understand the basic principle.

An interesting feature of the patent, which JB erroneously (in my view) calls a motor, is that it has only 7 years to run. If he doesn't pull his finger out, that patent will soon be dead in the water.

TK's offer to post the Milehigh SS version version is great. I look forward to seeing it. Hopefully we will be getting a circuit diagram.
Title: Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
Post by: vargaadree on February 17, 2020, 12:39:45 AM
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspa.1932.0126