Author Topic: The Ossie motor (Read 332313 times)

captainpecan · « **Reply #150 on:** February 10, 2010, 06:03:02 AM »

Quote from: gyulasun on February 09, 2010, 11:07:18 PM

Hi All,

Here is youtube video I have seen referenced in the Steorn Demo thread. The builder experienced no voltage loss from his batteries during a 24 hour continuous run. He uses magnetic gear for the rotor, and the actual rotor magnets are two cylinder magnets in the middle that interacts with two stator coils. The full circuit consists of only the battery, 2 reed switches, two high speed diodes (they look like as 1N4148 or 1N914 or similar), two coils and one series resistor.

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYgsuJT1zwg

I do not wish to distract anyone's attention from his own activity of course but I think this video is worth seeing.

rgds, Gyula

Yup, that's running on the exact principles the Ossie motor does. Nice design too. I like Hector's work, the guy in the video. I've always followed all of his builds.

@Jimboot,
Glad I could help, but please, if your setup works best keep working with it. I'm just offering my understanding and theories, by all means test and experiment before you take anyone's word on a new design. You never know when everyone else really is wrong, and you are right! We are all just searching and learning as we go. But we definitely want to learn from everyone elses mistakes, so we don't have to repeat the same ones. My goal is to find all new mistakes to make! lol... That's how we learn.

Jimboot · « **Reply #151 on:** February 10, 2010, 08:01:38 AM »

Quote from: captainpecan on February 10, 2010, 06:03:02 AM

Yup, that's running on the exact principles the Ossie motor does. Nice design too. I like Hector's work, the guy in the video. I've always followed all of his builds.

@Jimboot,
Glad I could help, but please, if your setup works best keep working with it. I'm just offering my understanding and theories, by all means test and experiment before you take anyone's word on a new design. You never know when everyone else really is wrong, and you are right! We are all just searching and learning as we go. But we definitely want to learn from everyone elses mistakes, so we don't have to repeat the same ones. My goal is to find all new mistakes to make! lol... That's how we learn.

Couldn't agree with your more mate! I live my life but that. I am very learned

I'm building a second motor so I can compare perfomance. I'll be ditching the lesser performing coil arrangement. edit: The hard part is defining "lesser performing"

gyulasun · « **Reply #152 on:** February 10, 2010, 10:27:21 AM »

Quote from: Jimboot on February 10, 2010, 01:37:09 AM

Looks like an Ossie variation to me. Interesting tho. My D cell ran for 97 hours before I stopped it. Voltage before the run was 1.32 after it was 1.36

Hi Jimboot,

Yes, I have been aware of your excellent series of tests and the only reason I included that link here is that I also thought it to be an Ossie variant, using diodes, reeds switches and coils, only the mechanical arrangement of the magnets and coils are different. I did not want to offend anybody here.

Re on your recent asking where to put the scope probe. Laurent has showed mainly two measuring points, one is across the final ends of the series coils and another one is across a 1 or 100 Ohm resistor to see the voltage drop and estimate the current draw from the battery.
Because these battery operated pulse motor setups are ground independent circuits i.e. they have no any connection to the mains, normally there is no problem which point of the circuit you clip the scope probe on when you wish to see the pulses across the coils, the only consideration could be to see a positive going waveform on the screen and this happens when the ground clip i.e. crocodile of the probe is connected to the most negative polarity part of the circuit and the "hot" center pin of the probe is clipped to a 'positive' point. For instance the most negative point of the coils in Ossie circuit is the negative battery wire via the reed switch and via the 2.2 Ohm to lower leg of coil L4, if you consider Ossie's schematic on Naudin page here:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/ossiemotor/indexen.htm So I would connetc the crocodile of the probe to the common points of L4 and R1 and the pin tip of the probe would go to the upper end of L1 if I wished to see the waveform across the 4 series coils.

In these scope shots Laurent used scope settings like 10 ms for the time base range switch and 20V/DIV setting for the vertical scale:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8731.msg227021#msg227021

It is always helpful to know what these setting have been at the moment the picture is taken from the scope display when you want to show it or ask about it.

His first picture in that link shows the waveform across the his coils and the lower picture shows the diode bridge output, being the crocodile is connected to the diode bridge negative output and the tip of the probe is clipped to the positive output of the bridge.

rgds, Gyula

captainpecan · « **Reply #153 on:** February 10, 2010, 11:53:14 AM »

Quote from: gyulasun on February 10, 2010, 10:27:21 AM

Yes, I have been aware of your excellent series of tests and the only reason I included that link here is that I also thought it to be an Ossie variant, using diodes, reeds switches and coils, only the mechanical arrangement of the magnets and coils are different. I did not want to offend anybody here.

You certainly did not offend anyone here. That post of Skycollections video is very much on topic. I think someone was just getting tired of the Ossie motor getting so much flack over at the Orbo thread where it was born, they just expected that video was going to be promoting the Orbo again. A quick view of the video, and I think everyone here agrees that it is right on topic here. Thanks for posting it. I also have been finding much about this TYPE of motor, including adams variations and stuff over at energetic forum, and I am curious where hector is working on his at? He seems to refer to it as his SAM motor. Just have not seen or heard of that name of a motor before. Has anyone else? Overall, It appears from watching his other video's, he drifted from making an Orbo replication into what he has now. As it seems most have been ending up doing. Not that the Orbo doesn't have merit, just that a true replication of an Orbo without any real build data from Steorn, has pretty much made many move onto other stuff that they are seeing results with.

@all,
I have been searching the net for a good oscilloscope to order. I'm looking to spend less than $200 if possible, and have found a few that look good on ebay. Does anyone have any suggestions on where to get a pretty descent one? I like the detail on Whoopy's scope traces, could you share with me what type of o-scope you are using also?

futuristic · « **Reply #154 on:** February 10, 2010, 01:58:36 PM »

Hi.

This scope should be more than good enough:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hantek-DSO-2090-PC-USB-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MS_W0QQitemZ280422059620QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item414a750e64

This one has 40MHz bandwidth. And I have read some good reviews online about Hantek DSO-2090.
I think that gotoluc also has it.

I am using much cheaper one with bandwidth only 12Mhz and is still more than enough for basic researching.

Frenky

woopy · « **Reply #155 on:** February 10, 2010, 02:12:18 PM »

@Jb

to complete the Gyula explanation here a drawing

@ Cp

and a picture of my scope 25 mghz

good luck

laurent

gyulasun · « **Reply #156 on:** February 10, 2010, 03:01:38 PM »

Hi Folks,

Here is a digital scope, 25MB bandwidth:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATTEN-ADS1022-C-25MHz-Digital-Oscilloscope-DSO-ADS1022C_W0QQitemZ250548408860QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item3a55d9521c

Unfortunately, the shipping costs $102 from Hong Kong, maybe the manufacturer has got dealers on the main continents: http://www.atten.com.cn/english/index.html

rgds, Gyula

captainpecan · « **Reply #157 on:** February 10, 2010, 09:03:08 PM »

Quote from: futuristic on February 10, 2010, 01:58:36 PM

Hi.

This scope should be more than good enough:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hantek-DSO-2090-PC-USB-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MS_W0QQitemZ280422059620QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item414a750e64

This one has 40MHz bandwidth. And I have read some good reviews online about Hantek DSO-2090.
I think that gotoluc also has it.

I am using much cheaper one with bandwidth only 12Mhz and is still more than enough for basic researching.

Frenky

Thanks for the recommendation. For some reason a while back someone told me not to get a usb scope because they could not due DC. This one shows "DC accuracy +-3%", I assume this means they told me wrong, and they just did not have as good of quality of one to compare to? Or does that spec mean something else entirely? Because I certainly want to be able to measure DC.

futuristic · « **Reply #158 on:** February 10, 2010, 10:35:29 PM »

Yeah you can measure DC no doubt about that.

gyulasun · « **Reply #159 on:** February 10, 2010, 10:53:34 PM »

Hi CP,

Once the scope is featured for Coupling modes as AC/DC/GND it should mean the DC coupling too. Otherwise it would be a big drawback in marketing for this type. The +-3% DC accuracy is a usual accuracy for even a similar digital scope like the one I referred to or probably Laurent has.
The only problem I have with USB PC scopes is they need a PC... they are designed to a PC of course, maybe a dedicated lap-top could be assigned for it.

rgds, Gyula

captainpecan · « **Reply #160 on:** February 10, 2010, 11:15:38 PM »

Quote from: gyulasun on February 10, 2010, 10:53:34 PM

Hi CP,

Once the scope is featured for Coupling modes as AC/DC/GND it should mean the DC coupling too. Otherwise it would be a big drawback in marketing for this type. The +-3% DC accuracy is a usual accuracy for even a similar digital scope like the one I referred to or probably Laurent has.
The only problem I have with USB PC scopes is they need a PC... they are designed to a PC of course, maybe a dedicated lap-top could be assigned for it.

rgds, Gyula

Yeah, the laptop is not a problem. I have an extra one, and a desktop that is not even being used at the moment anyway. But I just want the best bang for the buck, considering the limited funds available, and a good oscope can run thousands easily.

@all,
I started my long run with my motor to see how it is doing. This one is still just using two reeds, and I have not set it yet to fire on both incoming and exiting of the coil. That will be the next step, but I wanted a good efficiency benchmark to check it against first. So far, this one shows an increase in voltage on disposable batteries, and a small decrease on rechargables. Still scratching my head on that one. But for this run I am using 1 AA 2000mah nimh battery. So far it has ran for 12 hrs and has only decreased .06 volts. Still could be better, but it's not bad as it is already. So it's going pretty well so far. I'm working on the 4 reed version that will be running shortly to compare the data. I'll keep posting my data as it goes.

Makes me wonder, when steorn stated the longest they ran the orbo for was 7 days continuous, and they were using a 10,000 mah D cell. Guys, I think this Ossie motor can perform better than that. It would be great if someone had a high enough quality oscope to do the same final tests that steorn did, with an Ossie motor.

Jimboot · « **Reply #161 on:** February 10, 2010, 11:17:40 PM »

Quote from: gyulasun on February 10, 2010, 10:27:21 AM

Hi Jimboot,

Yes, I have been aware of your excellent series of tests and the only reason I included that link here is that I also thought it to be an Ossie variant, using diodes, reeds switches and coils, only the mechanical arrangement of the magnets and coils are different. I did not want to offend anybody here.

Re on your recent asking where to put the scope probe. Laurent has showed mainly two measuring points, one is across the final ends of the series coils and another one is across a 1 or 100 Ohm resistor to see the voltage drop and estimate the current draw from the battery.
Because these battery operated pulse motor setups are ground independent circuits i.e. they have no any connection to the mains, normally there is no problem which point of the circuit you clip the scope probe on when you wish to see the pulses across the coils, the only consideration could be to see a positive going waveform on the screen and this happens when the ground clip i.e. crocodile of the probe is connected to the most negative polarity part of the circuit and the "hot" center pin of the probe is clipped to a 'positive' point. For instance the most negative point of the coils in Ossie circuit is the negative battery wire via the reed switch and via the 2.2 Ohm to lower leg of coil L4, if you consider Ossie's schematic on Naudin page here:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/ossiemotor/indexen.htm So I would connetc the crocodile of the probe to the common points of L4 and R1 and the pin tip of the probe would go to the upper end of L1 if I wished to see the waveform across the 4 series coils.

In these scope shots Laurent used scope settings like 10 ms for the time base range switch and 20V/DIV setting for the vertical scale:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8731.msg227021#msg227021

It is always helpful to know what these setting have been at the moment the picture is taken from the scope display when you want to show it or ask about it.

His first picture in that link shows the waveform across the his coils and the lower picture shows the diode bridge output, being the crocodile is connected to the diode bridge negative output and the tip of the probe is clipped to the positive output of the bridge.

rgds, Gyula

Hey Mate - no offence taken! I was checking to see if I was missing something. The build is pretty impressive. I wasn't sure if there was something else I was supposed see.

Jimboot · « **Reply #162 on:** February 10, 2010, 11:36:34 PM »

@ Gyula @woopy thanks so much for the explanation. working on it last night. In the office but still not quite awake.

Went to bed with two motors running off the same 1.5 battery - just because

They were still running this morning.

Something weird is going on with my new Orzy tho. I had some metglass toroids. 19mm (not squareloop) & 12mm (squareloop) They fitted inside each other exactly and then into the perfectly... so of course I had to build a motor with them inside. Got it running on normal coil polarity then on my arse backwards polarity. But I think I am getting massive bemf or something. The rotor inititially starts to spin up fast then the coils begin to emit a low loud hum and the rotor slows down. The hum vibrates the table I am working on but voltage drops don't seem that worse. This is off a 1.5v battery. To me it seems like a hell of a lot of energy being demonstrated in these vibrations. I'm hoping to find the equal but opposite reaction tonight

captainpecan · « **Reply #163 on:** February 11, 2010, 12:48:54 AM »

I'm having a hard time visualizing your setup? But knowing how the magnets are pulling at those toroids, and it seems you have a toroids inside of other toroids. Then I tend to think that your vibration is not necessarily coming from the pulsing of the motor as much as the natural magnetic attraction moving those toroids around. Are they firmly fastened? I'm just curious if you may be experiences toroids banging around inside of the other toroids. If this is the case, you may want to fix that scenario quick like. Metglass cores are kinda fragile. Not knowing how severe your vibration is, it concerns me that you may be on the road to messing up your cores on accident. Just take a good look at what is happening, and find a way to dampen the vibration if you can figure out where it is coming from. But, of course I cannot really visualize what your doing so I'm making it up as I go, lol... Good luck!

Jimboot · « **Reply #164 on:** February 11, 2010, 12:57:19 AM »

Quote from: captainpecan on February 11, 2010, 12:48:54 AM

I'm having a hard time visualizing your setup? But knowing how the magnets are pulling at those toroids, and it seems you have a toroids inside of other toroids. Then I tend to think that your vibration is not necessarily coming from the pulsing of the motor as much as the natural magnetic attraction moving those toroids around. Are they firmly fastened? I'm just curious if you may be experiences toroids banging around inside of the other toroids. If this is the case, you may want to fix that scenario quick like. Metglass cores are kinda fragile. Not knowing how severe your vibration is, it concerns me that you may be on the road to messing up your cores on accident. Just take a good look at what is happening, and find a way to dampen the vibration if you can figure out where it is coming from. But, of course I cannot really visualize what your doing so I'm making it up as I go, lol... Good luck!

The toroids are fastened & not moving. I paid attention to their name Metal Glass

. If this rumble was coming from the torids they would be well & truly shattered by now. The rumble is coming from the coils themselves. I think it is a current issue, bemf or some kind of feedback. Just very weird to see that much energy coming off a 1.5v for me. the rotor starts to accelerate then hum builds & slows the rotor but it keeps running. I'm sure it is a coils polarity issue but I didn't have this happen in the first motor and the only diff is the toroids. I took some vid last night but with web cam so the audio sux. edit: JUst remembered the other diff is that this motor has the opp mag polarity to the first one.

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