Author Topic: The Ossie motor (Read 332918 times)

captainpecan · « **Reply #195 on:** February 12, 2010, 07:32:26 AM »

Quote from: Jimboot on February 12, 2010, 06:34:36 AM

I hate to impose on you guys but can anyone explain that top trace in my last scope shot. The noise from the motor is definitely not my Metglas rattling. Uploading a new vid now.

I am probably not the one to answer this question, because I am still trying to obtain a scope myself and I'm by far no expert. It very well could be switch chattering. Or a bouncy switch or something like that. It also could have something to do with your metglas cores, and a sort of resonance happening as the current flow and the permanent magnets field are trying to battle each other to overtake the core. I'm making it up as I go along of course, lol. Just throwing out some ideas.

Jimboot · « **Reply #196 on:** February 13, 2010, 03:07:22 AM »

That sounds reasonable to me. Just odd to to see that high freq going through the coils punctuated by a longer wave. I think it is a build up in the coils.

Magluvin · « **Reply #197 on:** February 13, 2010, 03:34:39 AM »

Jim
The coils do have capacitance that could ring them. But what I truly believe is your proximity and orientation of the reed to the coil, the coils field pulse and the reed could be oscillating till the other reed opens then it stops.
So the reeds may not be set up for timing exactly the way you might be seeing them on the scope. 1 could be letting loose a bit earlier than the other then the other is oscillating from the field change from the coil and producing the buzz and that vibration to the table. Normally the coil when pulsed should give 1 bump into vibrating the table, but a whole bunch of quick ones like that and you have your vibration sound problem solved.
So during that time of buzz on the scope, it is probably pulling from the battery to make those buzzing pulses, but also a bunch of kick backs in bemf.

Thats me theory! =]

Mags

Jimboot · « **Reply #198 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:27:42 AM »

Quote from: Magluvin on February 13, 2010, 03:34:39 AM

Jim
The coils do have capacitance that could them. But what I truly believe is your proximity and orientation of the reed to the coil, the coils field pulse and the reed could be oscillating till the other reed opens then it stops.
So the reeds may not be set up for timing exactly the way you might be seeing them on the scope. 1 could be letting loose a bit earlier than the other then the other is oscillating from the field change from the coil and producing the buzz and that vibration to the table. Normally the coil when pulsed should give 1 bump into vibrating the table, but a whole bunch of quick ones like that and you have your vibration sound problem solved.
So during that time of buzz on the scope, it is probably pulling from the battery to make those buzzing pulses, but also a bunch of kick backs in bemf.

Thats me theory! =]

Mags

Thanks Mags.
I'll be adding a resistor to my Supercap today. Still find this metglas fascinating

Magluvin · « **Reply #199 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:47:15 AM »

Jim
Was messing with the idea of adding some recharge coils to the outside of your pulse coils to gather some volts from the system to get you over the hump in eff. If this works, you could possibly run many motors on 1 battery.
Below is my vid. It just shows pulsing a coil, capturing bemf from it and the pickup coil gathering from the first, without diminishing the first bemf. So this should be additional power for you. Even it is little, If the input current does not increase and the rotor does not slow down, its all extree. I like that word, Extree. My brother uses it. =]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P34lqMJVSmE

Mags

Jimboot · « **Reply #200 on:** February 13, 2010, 10:53:53 AM »

@mags I have alkaline 2Dcells, 1AA & 1 AAA running the motor without resistor at the positive of the battery at 1300RPMS, Good to see this baby speed up

With the resistor I get this pulse which is about twice the height. I think I'll get a dynamo next like Ossie was demonstrating. I'm attempting to charge an old SLA but I'm sure I'm not doing it the right way. I'll find out in the morning.

Jimboot · « **Reply #201 on:** February 13, 2010, 11:22:23 AM »

Quote from: Magluvin on February 13, 2010, 04:47:15 AM

Jim
Was messing with the idea of adding some recharge coils to the outside of your pulse coils to gather some volts from the system to get you over the hump in eff. If this works, you could possibly run many motors on 1 battery.
Below is my vid. It just shows pulsing a coil, capturing bemf from it and the pickup coil gathering from the first, without diminishing the first bemf. So this should be additional power for you. Even it is little, If the input current does not increase and the rotor does not slow down, its all extree. I like that word, Extree. My brother uses it. =]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P34lqMJVSmE

Mags

Yikes! Great vid but waaaay beyond my skill level. Thanks tho. I 'll watch it several more times and get back to you. In the meantime I think I'll buy a dynamo

Voltage has gone up 0.8 volts in 23mins. That is nearly 3 times as fast as my D cell without your resistor. Thanks.

casman1969 · « **Reply #202 on:** February 13, 2010, 03:58:26 PM »

For those of you using a HD motor as your bearing I have found a unique anomoly you should try. Stack 1/2" cylinder Neos on the center (stationary shaft) at the top of your disc motor. It causes the speed to increase and current to decrease.

Magluvin · « **Reply #203 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:31:22 PM »

hey Jim
Im not sure what you mean by not using the resistor with the batteries. I hadnt recommended it. Now if you are running the system on a cap alone, then a series resistor I would use. But back emf should bypass the resistor back to the battery. Like shown as earlier.
So are you saying your getting better results with alkaline batteries? Or just that the voltage is rising using smaller batteries like AAA.?

Good going.

Mags

Magluvin · « **Reply #204 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:36:48 PM »

Oh yeah

Now if the resistor with the batteries is to make up for reeds staying on longer than wanted, as they would let the coil charge slower, just as the cap would also need, but more ohms, then I would say the resistor could help some.
I have just, myself, been able to reduce my reed timing pretty good with polarizing mags on the reeds and a couple other techniques. I made some vids a bit ago on reeds.

Mags

casman1969 · « **Reply #205 on:** February 13, 2010, 06:33:32 PM »

Has anyone tried this with Adams coils? I'm giving it a go with three bi-fillar wound and various combinations but the reed timing is a little tricky.

woopy · « **Reply #206 on:** February 13, 2010, 11:26:31 PM »

Hello all

I made a new test on the ossie motor original config of the coils that is - + -+ - + - +

i disconnected the reed switch and diode circuitery and hooked up the coils directly to my orbo circuit see pix 1

that is a single Hall effect sensor circuit actuacting a mosfet to the coils.

And it works very nice and the current is also very low and the system works very regular and smooth And i get very similar trace as for the double reed circuit see the scope shot pix 2 and 3.

and now my question to you

WHAT DOES EXACTLY MEAN AND SHOW THIS UP AN DOWN SCOPE TRACE

??

When the trace goes up that shows an impuls from the battery = energy lost to power the rotor OK But is there an hidden( behind ) generation curve which does not appears ?? I mean is there an original AC curve covered by the power pulse ?? which make me think that could be an equality between the in and out of energy in the upper curve ??

when the trace goes down that shows what ? Is it a net gain of energy which surpass the upward one or simply the mirror energy which cancel the upward one. so total balance is zero I mean very nice AC trace but only for the show and unsuable ??

Thanks for a comprehensible explanation i need to learn slowly please

regards

laurent

Jimboot · « **Reply #207 on:** February 14, 2010, 01:54:11 AM »

Quote from: Magluvin link=topic=8731.msg228038#msg228038 =1266075408

Oh yeah

Now if the resistor with the batteries is to make up for reeds staying on longer than wanted, as they would let the coil charge slower, just as the cap would also need, but more ohms, then I would say the resistor could help some.
I have just, myself, been able to reduce my reed timing pretty good with polarizing mags on the reeds and a couple other techniques. I made some vids a bit ago on reeds.

Mags

Mm the volts initially went up but have decreased overnight. I was using the resistor with the batteries to see what the effect would be b4 trying with supercap.

I think I actually got better results with my circuit without the bridge. I'll switch back today to confirm.

futuristic · « **Reply #208 on:** February 14, 2010, 08:55:54 AM »

Quote from: woopy on February 13, 2010, 11:26:31 PM

when the trace goes down that shows what ? Is it a net gain of energy which surpass the upward one or simply the mirror energy which cancel the upward one. so total balance is zero I mean very nice AC trace but only for the show and unsuable ??

Thanks for a comprehensible explanation i need to learn slowly please

I what I see from your scope shots is:
- you have motor working in attraction mode, because generator pulse fires right between magnets and it turns off when magnet comes close to the center od the coil.

- your generatur pulse is approx. 4V DC on the coil and induced voltage is 5V AC.

I can't say if you're getting more out than in if I don't see scope shot across the small resistor (1 ohm or less).

Have fun,
Frenky

captainpecan · « **Reply #209 on:** February 14, 2010, 09:48:20 AM »

Quote from: futuristic on February 14, 2010, 08:55:54 AM

I what I see from your scope shots is:
- you have motor working in attraction mode, because generator pulse fires right between magnets and it turns off when magnet comes close to the center od the coil.

- your generatur pulse is approx. 4V DC on the coil and induced voltage is 5V AC.

I can't say if you're getting more out than in if I don't see scope shot across the small resistor (1 ohm or less).

Have fun,
Frenky

I agree. I'm not a pro at reading the scope yet, but if I'm reading correctly, his pulse width is a bit wide. I know it will run at higher rpm with a wider pulse width, but if the goal was to replicate what Ossie has said, then the pulse width should be hidden inside the AC wave. But what I do not quite understand is how you are seeing that he is getting higher AC voltage than the DC he is putting in? Like I said I am still learning to read scope traces, but by seeing his pulse flatline at the peak, it appears the AC wave is less than the DC pulse. Could you possibly explain to me how I'm misunderstand it? I would expect to see instead of the flatline, the upwards curve of the top of the AC wave, as it over powers the pulse. Thanks for any clarification.

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