Author Topic: The Ossie motor (Read 331445 times)

futuristic · « **Reply #105 on:** February 07, 2010, 04:36:21 PM »

And the relay is 8A, 250V (schrack rp 410006)
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/buy/SCHRACK-TYCO/RP420006/

woopy · « **Reply #106 on:** February 07, 2010, 06:04:31 PM »

Hi Gyula

Thanks for your very good advice.
I checked my schottky diode they work OK but i decided to change against a stronger bridge rectifier (i don't know the datas)

but the trace at the bridge output is really impressive , spikes up to 272 volts (pix 1). I could easily and shortly charge a 22micro F 400 volt electrolitic cap to 230 volts.

An than i tried to put a neon bulb across a 2000volts 1 F and it light very good and than i put the neon bulb direct on the bridge (pix 2)

than i reconnected the bridge to the circuit and here the trace , the battery is my old 4.5 volt alcaline batt which is now at 4.18 volt (pix 3)

I make a long run test now

@Futuristic

keep us informed of progress thanks

Regards

Laurent

gyulasun · « **Reply #107 on:** February 07, 2010, 06:50:58 PM »

Hi Laurent,

Thanks for the infos, very interesting.
I would not use but for temporary test the stronger diode bridge because its is most likely designed for 50-400Hz frequency and also the forward voltage drop may be excessive. Now it is good of course, once you have those bigger peak voltages coming from the coils.
Do you use a series resistor via the reeds from the battery when the reeds energize the series -++--++- coils? If yes, how many Ohms?
Could you check that if you place a more decent load across the 22 microF capacitor, then it increases the current consumption from the battery? On a decent load I mean a 5-6 or 10 kiloOhm resistor, and assume then the 230V will go down from the capacitor to a few volts? If so, then what does some hundred Ohms load to the cap voltage and current consumption from the battery? Sorry, just curious...

You wrote a 2000V 1F capacitor, is it really 1F, I wonder, a typo?

rgds, Gyula

Light · « **Reply #108 on:** February 07, 2010, 08:28:17 PM »

"Hey Congs how long have you run them? I have found that some batteries have dropped before they rise. Great rotor! Also what is the polarity of your coils? Mine is -++--++- . For me a smaller rotor allows me to adjust the coils so they have more influence on rotation. Where to you have your reeds? I didn't see voltages rise or have an indefinite runner (switched off after 97.5 hours) until I bought a scope & followed Ossies advice about shortening the activation pulse"
- Running so far, but with the voltage drop (.03/24hrs).
Polarity - all same poles are outwards, i believe it's optimal, otherwise they will work against fields in coils.
RS from local electronic shop, but they are low voltage, easy to weld; looking for a good ones, hi-power, say up to 3A, they do not make them higher amperage.
So, do you have voltage rise on THE running bttry?
Thks.
cheers

futuristic · « **Reply #109 on:** February 07, 2010, 09:08:25 PM »

Picture of my motor. Videos are uploading.

Frenky

futuristic · « **Reply #110 on:** February 07, 2010, 09:56:08 PM »

Videos:

Basic setup with one coil, reed switch and battery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUs7sFLyw44

Using relay for switching current on and off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0YhNLgmGO0

Setup with two reed switches so that pulse is shorter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elEG09CUFN4

Have fun

Frenky

Jimboot · « **Reply #111 on:** February 07, 2010, 10:16:58 PM »

Quote from: B2moos on February 07, 2010, 12:34:42 PM

Hello JB,

Can you carry out this test: to fix at interior each Coil a iron noyeau or a metal stem, (nails) would make the deal.

Thank you and continue your good work

Mustapha

Hi Mustapha I already have the coils fixed with screws. Is that what you mean?

Jimboot · « **Reply #112 on:** February 07, 2010, 10:19:17 PM »

Quote from: Light on February 07, 2010, 08:28:17 PM

"Hey Congs how long have you run them? I have found that some batteries have dropped before they rise. Great rotor! Also what is the polarity of your coils? Mine is -++--++- . For me a smaller rotor allows me to adjust the coils so they have more influence on rotation. Where to you have your reeds? I didn't see voltages rise or have an indefinite runner (switched off after 97.5 hours) until I bought a scope & followed Ossies advice about shortening the activation pulse"
- Running so far, but with the voltage drop (.03/24hrs).
Polarity - all same poles are outwards, i believe it's optimal, otherwise they will work against fields in coils.
RS from local electronic shop, but they are low voltage, easy to weld; looking for a good ones, hi-power, say up to 3A, they do not make them higher amperage.
So, do you have voltage rise on THE running bttry?
Thks.
cheers

The best I have had is about 0.008 volt rise per hour.

woopy · « **Reply #113 on:** February 07, 2010, 10:41:38 PM »

@Gyula

No there is no resistor between battery and reeds. The one you see on the pix is a rest of some previous test.

The system is now on a long run testing , so i will try your prop tomorrow.

Yep of course you are right it is a micro owen cap 2000 volts and 1 micro F.

Now for the diodes I have in lab some 1n4007 some BY 550-800 some 1N 5408 and BAT 43 and BAT 48 have you a proposal to make a better Bridge or Half bridge. And what do you think of Futuristic setup without diode at all and coupling the reed with relay ??

just for info the long run test began 5 hours ago and i just wanted to prepare for the night and disconnected the amperemeter and the RPM go up and the scope trace (pix 3 on previous post ) is now almost flat. Bloody instrument they can lead to very bad error.

so i will let the motor for the night

good night

Laurent]

gyulasun · « **Reply #114 on:** February 08, 2010, 12:00:28 AM »

Quote from: futuristic on February 07, 2010, 09:56:08 PM

Videos:

Basic setup with one coil, reed switch and battery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUs7sFLyw44

Using relay for switching current on and off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0YhNLgmGO0

Setup with two reed switches so that pulse is shorter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elEG09CUFN4

Have fun
Frenky

Hi Frenky,

If you use the circuit you showed in the schematic on the previous page, and you do not use a diode for rectifying the pulse due to the collapsing flux of coil, then I cannot understand how the pulse from the collapsing field goes back to the battery?
Because when the relay is switched off, the (flyback) pulse is created immediatly but by then the relay contacts are open, they should be open to brake current flow.

Thanks, Gyula

Jimboot · « **Reply #115 on:** February 08, 2010, 01:52:00 AM »

Quote from: woopy on February 07, 2010, 11:45:38 AM

@ Jb

Ouups i forgot one coil

my polarity is - + - + - + - + that is my coil are in serie and yours are not in serie Right ?

laurent

My coils are in series.

Light · « **Reply #116 on:** February 08, 2010, 02:24:33 AM »

"The best I have had is about 0.008 volt rise per hour".
- To me this's it!! Giddy-up again

If you have rise, so it can run steady for weeks...
Can you show this exact setup with values of components? Pls.
Thks,

cheers

captainpecan · « **Reply #117 on:** February 08, 2010, 02:37:20 AM »

Quote from: gyulasun on February 08, 2010, 12:00:28 AM

Hi Frenky,

If you use the circuit you showed in the schematic on the previous page, and you do not use a diode for rectifying the pulse due to the collapsing flux of coil, then I cannot understand how the pulse from the collapsing field goes back to the battery?
Because when the relay is switched off, the (flyback) pulse is created immediatly but by then the relay contacts are open, they should be open to brake current flow.

Thanks, Gyula

I was thinking the same thing. What is happening though is that he is getting the high voltage sparks inside his relay now, instead of in his reed switch like before. He quickly burnt his reed out this way, and I sort of expect his relay will have much shorter life also. BUT, the collapsing field is still making it through the circuit across a spark gap now. So who knows for sure what is really happening as far a battery charge. But we will certainly take any all data we can get, you never know where that one little nugget of data will come from that changes everything.

@ Future,
Overall though, I just am not sure this is more efficient circuit yet. By all means, keep going, I do not mean anything negative for sure. It's just that you are also loosing energy to run that relay that is not recovered at all, you must also take that into consideration.

Jimboot · « **Reply #118 on:** February 08, 2010, 03:46:42 AM »

Quote from: Light on February 08, 2010, 02:24:33 AM

"The best I have had is about 0.008 volt rise per hour".
- To me this's it!! Giddy-up again
If you have rise, so it can run steady for weeks...
Can you show this exact setup with values of components? Pls.
Thks,

cheers

I'll do a vid but based on Ossie's orig circuit I am currently using
2 x N5408 diodes (non-schottky)
4 X LF1326 coils. (in series)
2 x mini reed switches.
How my motor seems to differ from others:
I buggered up the coil polarity so mine are -++--++-
I have attached the coils using a large self tapping screw which act as a small attraction the mags
I hang my reed switches on or near the screws as I find it easier to tune.
I angle the orientation of my coils so that the + side is closest to the mag.

I have built a schottky circuit but just realised where I made my mistake and how I need to rebuild it.

I am looking forward to getting this one up and running then I'll do a live stream a la Orbo! ( I have my own streaming servers

)

gyulasun · « **Reply #119 on:** February 08, 2010, 06:44:05 PM »

Quote from: woopy on February 07, 2010, 10:41:38 PM

...
Now for the diodes I have in lab some 1n4007 some BY 550-800 some 1N 5408 and BAT 43 and BAT 48 have you a proposal to make a better Bridge or Half bridge. And what do you think of Futuristic setup without diode at all and coupling the reed with relay ??
...

Hi Laurent,

For capturing the most (flyback) pulse from the collapsing flux, the diode must be very fast switching type, BAT 47 and 43 are ok, they have a reverse recovery time t_rr of around 10ns (nanosecond) but they have low forward current and reverse voltage ratings. V_R=40V and I_F=350mA for BAT47 and these are 30V and 200mA for the BAT43 type. These ratings are low for such applications here, there is risk for burning them in you circuit with way over a hundred Volt voltage peaks.
Will advise some types tonight.
You other diode types are designed for normal 50-60Hz mains rectification, not fast switching types at all, probably like your beefy bridge.

rgds, Gyula

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