Author Topic: The Master Of Magnetics "Steven Mark" (Read 1243035 times)

otto · « **Reply #2400 on:** April 16, 2007, 12:33:28 PM »

Hello all,

I can only hope its a little bit clearer now.

Use:

1. IRF 840 MOSFET
2. 50 turns wire is 0,5mm in diameter, sorry dont know the awg
3. 12V from power supply
4. pulses from oscillator 5 - 12V
5. lamp wire - insulated or speaker wire - insulated or ....less then 1 foot long, less then 30cm long, must NOT be a ring, just a piece of litz wire

This and NOTHING ELSE!!! And you will have my results.

Otto

otto · « **Reply #2401 on:** April 16, 2007, 12:36:17 PM »

Sulake,

your joking.

Otto

Mannix · « **Reply #2402 on:** April 16, 2007, 12:45:40 PM »

Quote from: sulake on April 16, 2007, 12:25:48 PM

So it's the same as this in that how it works.
Can you post some pictures of the voltages from your scope?

(http://www.jarkonkotisivu.org/temp/pulse.JPG)

Please do the test!!!!!

use the correct components arghhh!

sulake · « **Reply #2403 on:** April 16, 2007, 12:50:00 PM »

Quote

your joking.

No I'm not, but maby I misuderstand your circuit drawing.

In the Drain of the IRF840, there is a voltage of 12V that comes through the 50rounds coil?
If it is like in your drawing, IRF840 only acts like a swich that connects Drain to Source that is in Ground level?

If your pulse generator gives out some extra voltage to the coil, the drawing must be wrong then. That drawing only acts like a swich that pulls it to ground.

??

Dansway · « **Reply #2404 on:** April 16, 2007, 12:53:44 PM »

@Jason,

Ok...Jason! I'm ready to do the Super Otto 3-coil test! This coil should be very interesting.

This is my newest addition to the tpu family.

@Otton,

Thanks for sharing! Don't worry about anyone's detractions. Just keep your compass pointed in the right direction!

~Dan

bob.rennips · « **Reply #2405 on:** April 16, 2007, 12:55:07 PM »

Quote from: otto on April 16, 2007, 12:07:40 PM

Hello all,

here the circuit

Otto

Thanks Otto (and sulake for the clean-line version)

I've tried both this circuit and the circuit where the lamp is connected to the minus. In both cases whether the collector is within the coil or not there is no difference.

Can anyone else confirm this, with their setup ?

I assume everyone is aware that a coil has inherent self capacitance so in effect what you have is an LCR circuit. You would expect an LCR circuit to have a resonant frequency where the voltage is highest.

Dansway · « **Reply #2406 on:** April 16, 2007, 12:58:07 PM »

@sulake

We are trying to tell/show you that there is something "added" from outside this simple circuit when it runs.
Do the test or not. $:-\$

~Dan

bob.rennips · « **Reply #2407 on:** April 16, 2007, 01:03:54 PM »

Quote from: Mannix on April 16, 2007, 12:45:40 PM

Quote from: sulake on April 16, 2007, 12:25:48 PM
So it's the same as this in that how it works.
Can you post some pictures of the voltages from your scope?

(http://www.jarkonkotisivu.org/temp/pulse.JPG)

Please do the test!!!!!

use the correct components arghhh!

Mannix your replies are about as useful as a sponge on the titanic.

We HAVE TRIED the TESTS.
CAN YOU NOT READ.

Further more we have done another test with the COLLECTED NOT being placed WITHIN the coil and get EXACTLY THE SAME VOLTAGES AND RESULTS.

So either we're not using the correct circuit OR your interpretation of your results is hogwash.

To this end we have been trying to pin down exactly what the circuit is to ensure the difference in interpretation is not in this part.

So far we have a circuit with lamp connected to MINUS.
Latest circuit has lamp connected to PLUS.

Secondly, we have asked for other to try THE TEST, but with the collector not within the coil. ANY good experimentor devices further experiements to confirm their interpretation.

I have done this experiement, HAVE YOU ?

smoky · « **Reply #2408 on:** April 16, 2007, 01:13:25 PM »

Sulake,
People have been at this for some time doing their best within their financial means and abilities to interpret what they find.
Please do not complain or be demanding, just accept what people can do and have done both in testing and contributing.
Best to break out our own test gear and try to replicate and contribute ourselves than try to apply pressure to those like OTTO already doing the hard yards here.

Smoky

otto · « **Reply #2409 on:** April 16, 2007, 01:22:52 PM »

Hello all,

@Bob

ok, you tried the test. What transistor have you used???

What do you see on your scope??

Please, let us know.

Otto

bob.rennips · « **Reply #2410 on:** April 16, 2007, 01:37:36 PM »

Quote from: smoky on April 16, 2007, 01:13:25 PM

Sulake,
People have been at this for some time doing their best within their financial means and abilities to interpret what they find.
Please do not complain or be demanding, just accept what people can do and have done both in testing and contributing.
Best to break out our own test gear and try to replicate and contribute ourselves than try to apply pressure to those like OTTO already doing the hard yards here.

Smoky

On the contrary, Sulake IS contributing much to the discussion.

He's pointing out that the results do not appear anomalous. He's asked for a clarification of the circuit. He's redrawn the circuit. He's also pointed out that the MOSFET as drawn by OTTO, IS acting as a switch. He's provided (I believe) what looks like a simulated out, based on traditional electrical theory, from something like SPICE.

I've tried the circuit but don't see anything in the high voltages that I wouldn't expect in standard theory. Further more as any experimentor should be doing I've devised a simple further experiment to confirm whether your conclusions are correct.

Your theory is that the collector going through the center of coil is somehow adding to the voltage spike and/or current. To test this theory of yours a simple experiment is to have EXACTLY the same wire and components and connections but NOT have the collector going through the coil.

My results stay EXACTLY the same; QED the theory of the collector in the coil is INCORRECT OR the circuit I'm using is WRONG.

It is either one or the other. Given that OTTO has now posted the defintive circuit and components I believe my circuirt is identical to those being used by others.

So what's left is for YOU ALL to do this further test and let us know if you get any difference in results. If you do then we have to start looking at what other factor makes my circuit different from yours.

otto · « **Reply #2411 on:** April 16, 2007, 01:42:21 PM »

Hello,

@Bob

YOU ARE NOT USING A IRF 840 MOSFET or you are using a oridinary transistor!!!!

Otto

bob.rennips · « **Reply #2412 on:** April 16, 2007, 01:58:22 PM »

Quote from: otto on April 16, 2007, 01:22:52 PM

Hello all,

@Bob

ok, you tried the test. What transistor have you used???

What do you see on your scope??

Please, let us know.

Otto

IRF840 by ST (Thompson)
http://www.futurlec.com/Transistors/IRF840.shtml

I note that it has a reverse voltage diode built in. I can't imagine other manufacturers wouldn't have the reverse voltage diode.

Who makes your 840 ? I'll look up the datasheet to see if there are any differences - shouldn't be.

I get a standard decay pulse after the pulse turns OFF.

As I manually move through the frequencies on my function generator, the maximum voltage of the decay pulse, goes to a maximum (about 50V) and then reduces, continuing up the frequencies the voltage rises again and surpasses the previous high voltage (about 110V). Expanding the timeline on the scope and it may be going as high as 200V but the rise and fall of the first pulse is very steep so it's hard to tell what the maximum is on the scope.

My interpretation is the first peak is a harmonic of the second actual resonant frequency of the circuit.

What are you seeing on your scope ?

otto · « **Reply #2413 on:** April 16, 2007, 02:13:10 PM »

Hello,

tomorrow you will se photos of almost ideal kicks. Depending on used frequencies from nothing to over 400V.

I used almost all IRFs. In this moment I have at home 15 - 20 of them. I think from 2, maybe 3 various manufacturers, there is NO diffrernce.

We will see tomorrow.

Otto

MeggerMan · « **Reply #2414 on:** April 16, 2007, 02:26:58 PM »

Hi Otto,
Are you using a bench power supply or battery?
I was wondering if the spikes you are seeing may have come from a secondary winding of your PSU. You need to scope your supply possibly.

Are you getting any kind of current to go with these 400V spikes?
Is the 400V measured across the lamp?
What frequency and duty cycle?

I am amazed you can get such a large back emf with so few turns, no ferrous core and only 12v.
Look forward to seeing your scope shots.

Regards
Rob

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Author Topic: The Master Of Magnetics "Steven Mark" (Read 1243035 times)

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