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Author Topic: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?  (Read 29805 times)

Offline nwman

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SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« on: December 30, 2007, 10:28:15 PM »
Just a brief topic. Below is a graphic that represents a test to find if a SMOT actually works. I am willing to build this however if someone already has the parts to build it I don't want to buy the stuff myself unless I have too. So you would have both a level start and ending surface to rule out any potential energy being released from gravity. The ball would have to be pushed into the the start of the smot with little force or the smot would have to be slid to the ball. Then the ball must travel up the slight incline and then it can be allowed to drop at the end. However again it must not drop lower then the start position. If it does drop and continues to roll free of the magnetic attraction at the end then a SMOT does actually produce energy. I think it will get stuck at the end and not be allowed to get free unless the total incline from one SMOT or more in series is great enough in high to allow the ball to fall far enough down to escape the magnetic field at the end of the rail. Let me know what you all think?

Tim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« on: December 30, 2007, 10:28:15 PM »

Offline Mr.Entropy

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2007, 03:09:21 AM »
As diagrammed, it's a bit unfair to expect the ball to escape, because the ball is attracted to the SMOT entrance, and this attraction could help to close a loop of SMOTs.

So, to be fair, you should start by releasing the ball when it is far enough away from the entrance that the SMOT rail can barely pull it forward on the level surface.  It will then enter the SMOT with some additional kinetic energy.  If the SMOT is overunity, this additional energy will be enough to help it escape at the exit.

You will also have to put some effort into giving the ball a better landing at the end, so that it doesn't waste any energy banging against your table.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

Offline nwman

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2007, 06:44:38 AM »
I agree that the ball should be set just at the outermost edge of the start. Just enough to pull it in. Even a little too far and then pushed in with a tooth pick or something into the attraction zone.

Also, sorry about the landing area int he graphic. I obviously didn't spend too much time but again I agree a nice curved slope would make the best landing to convert the downward motion to horizontal motion. I still have a feeling the ball might get trapped at the end but I hope not and that's why I am posting this.

Tim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2007, 06:44:38 AM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2007, 09:58:59 AM »
G'day all,

First of all let me say I do not think there is any surplus energy to be found in a SMOT. Having said that, I have always wondered why you guys insist on rolling the ball uphill in the device. By doing this you give it the worst conceivable start with no advantage.

Let me explain. By rolling the ball downhill in a SMOT, if there is any extra energy, it will be added as inertia which will bring it higher than the starting point. By adjusting the angle you can get gravity to help overcome the sticky spot.

Test the device I have drawn in diagram form below and this will give you a quantitative as well as a qualitative assessment of its capabilities.

Hans von Lieven

Offline Mr.Entropy

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2007, 04:46:53 PM »
Test the device I have drawn in diagram form below and this will give you a quantitative as well as a qualitative assessment of its capabilities.

Hi Hans,

You're absolutely right if the SMOT, according to what we know of physics, fails to work.

Assume for a moment, though, that a SMOT is overunity.  If it is, then we obviously do not know how it works.  Without knowing how it works, we cannot be sure that your device is equivalent to a SMOT from an energy exchange point of view.  It may only work when it's pushing against gravity, or the drop at the end may be a critical part of the process, etc.  We can't dismiss these things if we don't know how it works.

So, in order to determine experimentally whether or not a SMOT is overunity, you have to test an actual SMOT.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2007, 04:46:53 PM »
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Offline terry1094

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2007, 06:17:02 PM »
Hans,

That is similar to Jean Louis Naudin's experiment:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotidx.htm

Terry

Offline nwman

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2008, 12:55:37 AM »
Terry, I haven't seen that site before. That's interesting. I'll have to look into it.

Hans, I think your idea for a test is a great idea. It would be interesting also to see it.

Tim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2008, 12:55:37 AM »
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Offline acp

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2008, 01:51:57 PM »
Hans, looks like it has been done already, the ball seems to roll further with the smot magnets in place.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5D70lqT1ZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNFS63dZIdc

Offline nwman

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2008, 09:10:03 PM »
That is impressive!

Tim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2008, 09:10:03 PM »
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Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2008, 09:40:55 PM »
Sorry Hans but you downhill smot will slow the ball not speed it up, come on people common sense, it is a magnet and a steel ball it's like extra gravity,

proof get a small ball bearing and tape a large magnet under a glass table, now roll the ball bearing across the table, it will grab the ball bearing ans stop it dead, now tilt the table ensuring the magnet is in the same place pro rate as Hans drawing, it will still stop the ball, there will at some point be a time when the tilt or incline is so great the ball breaks free, but the energy of attraction the gives that tiny burst of speed right before it is caught is not equal to the hold power, which would be sufficient to beat the argument, it is even greater, and if it was not greater, the magnetic pull field is a equally strong from the side the ball is trying to leave.

The uphill pull is your best shot if it is to work, with the gravitational drop providing the power to the magnet, although you have to get past the magnetic wall at the top.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2008, 09:55:28 PM »
That proves it doesn't it, if it does not impart extra energy downhill it will not do it uphill either. There is no net gain in a SMOT.

QED

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2008, 09:55:28 PM »
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Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2008, 10:30:04 PM »
actually no, i suppose I am actually going to have to teach you how to beat newton with one of your own devices to prove the point, one that I can kick his ass six ways from sunday using a dozen different devices outside the accelerator and my own PM machine.

The down hill device creates a garb point at passing slowing the ball, the uphill device has a wall, or final grab point.

If you want the smot to work and have perpetual motion, it is simple, the error is placement of the magnet under the track, one it provides little magnetic pull, directly in front is the perfect placement, so how doe the ball get past??

simple the magnet is perfect line with the track suspended in space past the point of the hill so the ball can be pulled up the hill to the magnet, as the ball just passes the crest it passes a electric light beam like a shop door entry and shuts off the electro magnet so the ball can fall, passing a paddle rotor like a hydro generator to power the magnet along to the base of the next smot on a circular track

I gave you this as I don't believe it can easily be used on a large commercial scale for electricity, nor be built by the average homeowner to power his house as mine will.

 have a nice day.


Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2008, 11:16:15 PM »
I should note that the perfect design for this is not drag, but momentum, you should start the ball at the top of one hill, and where the momentum stop the ball, go back 5 percent of the length of the track, and that should be the catch point of you magnetic field. the easiest way is to get a good electromagnet and play with various ball sizes, rather than try to alter the magnet unless you own a a power controller. This saves changing too much, an old hotwheels set should be sufficient to get you test results before spending any large dollars.

As for magnetic pull, there are now electromagnets 1.5 volts that will hold 500 pounds, i kid you not, from a double a battery, imagine the power from a 500 pound steel ball falling, however do not be confused with holding power as opposed to field and pull, albeit that a drop and elevator machine could be built from such a magnet. I will try to find the link tonight for the 1.5 volt magnet 500 pound hold just for interest sake or differing experiments.

Offline acp

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2008, 08:31:56 AM »
Hans,

Comparing the two videos, the one with the smot in place, the ball rolls further up the ramp than the vid where the smot is not in place. 

Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2008, 08:03:08 PM »
can't seem to find the link from last year, but this one is alomst identical and uses 3 volts DC to lift the 500 pounds. Hope it helps your designs

http://www.coolmagnetman.com/magelect.htm

 

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