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Author Topic: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?  (Read 29807 times)

Offline ken_nyus

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2008, 07:35:19 PM »
This looks promesing, but there is one big mistake:

The SMOT is placed too close to the staring point. This will give the ball a "free lunch" as the inventor are using energy to put the ball inside the attractive forces of the magnet configuration.
[...]

Vidar

Good catch, so the hand placing the ball in that start position, when the SMOT is there, has already preloaded the ball with extra potential.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2008, 07:35:19 PM »

Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2008, 12:31:24 AM »
This looks promesing, but there is one big mistake:

The SMOT is placed too close to the staring point. This will give the ball a "free lunch" as the inventor are using energy to put the ball inside the attractive forces of the magnet configuration.
[...]

Vidar

Good catch, so the hand placing the ball in that start position, when the SMOT is there, has already preloaded the ball with extra potential.
You're correct :)

Offline Mr.Entropy

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2008, 05:22:16 AM »
It works the other way, I'm afraid.  There is less potential energy in the ball when it is closer to the magnets, and when you move the ball towards the entrance, the ball does work on you, not the other way around.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2008, 05:22:16 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2008, 02:28:37 AM »
@Mr.Entropy

Partly correct. Imagine this:

The ball is far from the SMOT. The ball is then attracted to the SMOT but attracted to the magnetic lines which is going from the magnets outside north to outside south.

When the ball reach a certain point, the magnetic density is greater behind the ball than in front of it due to lack of density where the magnetic lines are going directly from north to south separately on each magnet. Not all magnetic lines are crossing both magnets. That does not happen before you got further in between the magnets.

Before that, the ball reach a neutral position - because north and south inside the SMOT is orientated in the oposite direction than on the outside of the magnets, which means neutralization -, and THEN further in the ball is attracted to the greater density which is BETWEEN the magnets. See?

The greatest density is somewhere right before the SMOTs exit, where the exactly same thing happen, but in shorter time, greater force, and shorter distance as the magnets are closer there.

The sum of the forces over the covered distance before and after the magnets in the SMOT will therefor equals to zero. See?

So the inventor probably, by accident, gave the ball a free lunch by avoiding the area where the ball is forced backwards.

Here is a picture showing that steel ball is attracted to the greater magnetic density behind it, right before it enters the SMOT:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3417.0;attach=16451;image)


Vidar
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 02:50:59 AM by Low-Q »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2008, 02:58:40 AM »
Stop cluttering this and other threads with your confusion. As I said learn some physics first, understand, for instance, the difference between force and energy (don't just say you understand it, you don't) and only then allow yourself to discuss these matters.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2008, 02:58:40 AM »
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Offline Mr.Entropy

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2008, 06:14:00 AM »
Vidar,

Even though there can be a place near the entrance where the ball may feel a repulsion, the magnetic potential energy at that point and all points nearby is still less than it is far away.  There is nowhere you can place the ball where it will be ejected from the magnet's field, and no cheating to be had by placing the ball in the SMOT entrance vs. placing it without magnets.

The best you could hope to do is come out even, by placing the ball exactly at the null in the field where it feels no force.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

Offline psychopath

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2008, 10:38:43 AM »
You know, still NOBODY has ever told me WHY a SMOT doesn't work. Saying something like "oh, magnetism is conservative" or "Laws of thermodynaics" is not enough. For example, gravity wheels have been debunked many times and people actually say why it logically cannot work.

But I have never ever seen an explanation why a smot shouldn't work.

I've had scientists acually say that it doesn't work because the ball cannot drop, I think wikipedia says this as well. But it isn't true!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2008, 10:38:43 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2008, 12:28:45 PM »
You know, still NOBODY has ever told me WHY a SMOT doesn't work. Saying something like "oh, magnetism is conservative" or "Laws of thermodynaics" is not enough. For example, gravity wheels have been debunked many times and people actually say why it logically cannot work.

But I have never ever seen an explanation why a smot shouldn't work.

I've had scientists acually say that it doesn't work because the ball cannot drop, I think wikipedia says this as well. But it isn't true!


The thing with gravity wheels are quite simple. I will explain - in general:

When you are placing objects/weights on a wheel that is far from the center at one side, and close to the center at the other side, the farmost objects are wider spread and the sum of matter density is there less. On the other side, where the objects/weights are closer to the center, they are denser spread, and the total matter density is greater. The momentum of right and left side of the wheel is therefor equal.

Regarding the SMOT I have an answer to that too right here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3912.0.html

Br.

Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2008, 12:37:06 PM »
Vidar,

Even though there can be a place near the entrance where the ball may feel a repulsion, the magnetic potential energy at that point and all points nearby is still less than it is far away.  There is nowhere you can place the ball where it will be ejected from the magnet's field, and no cheating to be had by placing the ball in the SMOT entrance vs. placing it without magnets.

The best you could hope to do is come out even, by placing the ball exactly at the null in the field where it feels no force.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

If we take away loss due to Eddy currents while moving in a magnetic field, friction in form of heat and sound, we will come out even. If you drop the ball in the position in the picture, the ball will remain there, in that sticky spot. It will not move much further back, and not forward.

Then you have the exit where the counterforces are even greater.

Br.

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2008, 12:37:06 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2008, 12:38:57 PM »
Stop cluttering this and other threads with your confusion. As I said learn some physics first, understand, for instance, the difference between force and energy (don't just say you understand it, you don't) and only then allow yourself to discuss these matters.
For the record: I'm finished with you Omnibus.

Vidar

Offline Omnibus

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2008, 03:27:49 PM »
@Low-Q,

Don't bother posting on this topic. You have no clue and only clutter the thread with nonsense.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2008, 03:27:49 PM »
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Offline tinu

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2008, 03:28:35 PM »
Vidar,

Even though there can be a place near the entrance where the ball may feel a repulsion, the magnetic potential energy at that point and all points nearby is still less than it is far away.  There is nowhere you can place the ball where it will be ejected from the magnet's field, and no cheating to be had by placing the ball in the SMOT entrance vs. placing it without magnets.

The best you could hope to do is come out even, by placing the ball exactly at the null in the field where it feels no force.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

@Mr. Entropy,

This is arguable and not entirely necessary.
If there is an area where the magnetic field is essentially null (and there is such an area in SMOT), then the magnetic potential of that point is the same as for an infinite distance. (Magnetic field energy density is zero). That particular point is B by a very good approximation (not exactly, because the ball would remain in unstable equilibrium in that point but B is very, very close to it, as close as the hand can place the ball). So, B is the point of highest magnetic potential energy, although it seems hard to accept at a first glance. That?s why Mb>>Ma.

This is the main reason why conventional thinking about SMOT is not appropriate and why omnibus is obviously wrong.

Please comment.
Respectfully,
Tinu

Offline Omnibus

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2008, 03:32:25 PM »
@Low-Q,

Learn some physics first and don't clutter so many threads with nonsense.

Offline Mr.Entropy

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2008, 05:44:42 PM »
So, B is the point of highest magnetic potential energy.

That doesn't follow.

Quote
This is the main reason why conventional thinking about SMOT is not appropriate and why omnibus is obviously wrong.

Hehe. no, Omnibus is obviously wrong, simply because there are NO MEANINGFUL MEASUREMENTS of energy, direct or indirect, in either the experiment or his analysis.


Offline Omnibus

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Re: SMOT TEST- can someone do this?
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2008, 05:51:35 PM »
@Mr.Entropy,

How come? There are direct measurements which prove I'm right. h1 can be measured directly, h2 can be measured directly, m can be measured directly. Think before posting.

 

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