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Author Topic: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor  (Read 12844 times)

joellagace

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Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« on: August 22, 2023, 01:00:40 AM »
Here is the youtube video with schematics.

https://youtu.be/8yXUZl2bEOo


In our first stage, the inductance on the primary side of the transformer plays a crucial role, coupling to the negative side anterior to the battery. Considering the Bedini system's inherent switching capabilities, it's only logical to exploit this feature. Here, the inducer acts as an efficient governor, constraining the pulse with which the Bedini motor interacts. This is no small accomplishment, as our prime objective lies in diminishing the trigger input.

Moving to the secondary effect, we find an opportunity to rectify this oscillation and employ it as a pulse switch transistor controller, pulsing a capacitive discharge. This is where the spirit of Tesla's resonant magic breathes life into the system! A rapid synchronization ensues, harmonizing with the resonant frequency. The challenge – and joy – is in discovering the capacitor value that yields the zenith of spike amplitude, as witnessed through the looking glass of my oscilloscope.

This charge is then channeled into an isolation transformer, rectified, and reintegrated into the battery supply. By shorting a tuned L/C circuit, we unleash a substantial "bang" of energy.  selecting the correct value for the capacitor is paramount, for resonance is the cornerstone of this mechanism.

I believe this unique approach to a Bedini-like setup.

Thank you, dear friends, for your unwavering support and shared enthusiasm in this grand adventure. Together, we continue to push the boundaries and light the way.

tinman

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2023, 03:47:44 AM »
Here is the youtube video with schematics.

https://youtu.be/8yXUZl2bEOo


In our first stage, the inductance on the primary side of the transformer plays a crucial role, coupling to the negative side anterior to the battery. Considering the Bedini system's inherent switching capabilities, it's only logical to exploit this feature. Here, the inducer acts as an efficient governor, constraining the pulse with which the Bedini motor interacts. This is no small accomplishment, as our prime objective lies in diminishing the trigger input.

Moving to the secondary effect, we find an opportunity to rectify this oscillation and employ it as a pulse switch transistor controller, pulsing a capacitive discharge. This is where the spirit of Tesla's resonant magic breathes life into the system! A rapid synchronization ensues, harmonizing with the resonant frequency. The challenge – and joy – is in discovering the capacitor value that yields the zenith of spike amplitude, as witnessed through the looking glass of my oscilloscope.

This charge is then channeled into an isolation transformer, rectified, and reintegrated into the battery supply. By shorting a tuned L/C circuit, we unleash a substantial "bang" of energy.  selecting the correct value for the capacitor is paramount, for resonance is the cornerstone of this mechanism.

I believe this unique approach to a Bedini-like setup.

Thank you, dear friends, for your unwavering support and shared enthusiasm in this grand adventure. Together, we continue to push the boundaries and light the way.

Ah, i remember the Bedini pulse motor- battery cooker days well.

I hear in your video you state that-- it does not have to be a complicated system, but your system seems to be just that.
It seems more an oscillator charging system, rather than a cap dump system.
Remember, every electrical component you put into a system is a lose, it is never a gain.

The whole idea of the cap dump system, is to dump a low voltage/high current pulse of energy into the battery, instead of the high voltage/low current battery killing inductive kickback spike associated with the bedini pulse motor.

There are far simpler ways to make a cap dump system that dumps the energy back into the run battery safely.

The bedini pulse motor is probably one of the worst designed pulse motors out there, but they are a simple design to get you started.
You have a good scope there, so have you done any P/in-P/out calculations ?, so as to get some idea of efficiency.

In saying all that, good work.
It is great to see people are still experimenting with the pulse motor.

joellagace

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2023, 04:13:02 AM »
Well one can go solid state if they want instead of the wheel.

https://youtu.be/QYpwTJJ3lh8

tinman

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2023, 04:54:45 AM »
Well one can go solid state if they want instead of the wheel.

https://youtu.be/QYpwTJJ3lh8

Yes, one could.
If you remove the bass/emitter diode on the ssg pulse motor, it will go into self oscillation.

I see in your video, you have also fallen for the tricks batteries play on you.
Many fall for this mis-conception.
I can show you the battery voltage rising when a load is placed on it, without all the voodoo hooked up to it.

Your video is titled--100 watts of free energy.
Where is this free energy ?, as i see just a battery delivering energy to an inverter, and then the inverter delivering it to a incandescent bulb. We also see the battery voltage falling as it should.

And what is this !radiant! energy you speak of ?

Over time, you will come to understand what is really going on with your battery, and it has nothing to do with this ! radiant! energy you speak of.

It would seem you have been reading them !books of secrets!, from the likes of Aaron the rookie from Energetic forum.

Pumping 100 volt spikes into your battery will kill it soon enough, as many have found out in the past.

There are those here that are well versed on these pulse systems, and battery behaviour, but i guess it is up to you if you wish to learn facts, or continue on down the rabbit hole.

joellagace

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2023, 05:08:44 AM »
LOL! Good day.

tinman

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2023, 06:00:20 AM »
LOL! Good day.

I was not trying to discourage you.
I was only trying to explain what you are seeing.

joellagace

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2023, 02:56:39 PM »
Well my post this time was not to rehash what works and what doesn't and a debate. This is just a controller. Those who want to experiment can. Don't like it move on. I don't hang around on here much anymore as I don't need the help. But I like to log in and say hello once in a while and help those who really want to listen.

If you want to speak theory, I have many posts with such information. That explains what I do what my mods are and what are the effects. I proved my point in these forms months ago. I'm not going to play the broken record. If you want to better understand what i'm doing feel free to read my previous posts! It has been well discussed in previous posts. 

If you feel for some reason such devices will never work as intended that's fine.

I simply share everything without all the bs and fluff. That's what people like about me, That's why I got over a thousand subscribers within weeks. These people seem to understand, They are building and replicating my devices. Some are even selling kits now based on some of my ideas :)

I'm 100% open. No secrets. Like Bedini and the others....


Again that may offend some. I guess you can't please all!

tinman

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2023, 03:08:37 PM »
Quote
author=joellagace link=topic=19537.msg581520#msg581520 date=1692708999


Quote
I simply share everything without all the bs and fluff.

Ok, no bs and fluff. Your video title is- 100 watts of free energy.
Can you show us, with measurements, this 100 watts of free energy ?

Quote
That's why I got over a thousand subscribers within weeks

I have 22k+ subscribers, but i don't think subscriptions validate anything.

Lets hope you are not another that claimes free energy, but can never show it.

I have a little pulse motor of my own.
I will throw it on here once i get a video of it--just for shits and giggles  ;D
It will give you something to laugh at.

joellagace

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2023, 03:26:13 PM »
I don't see what's funny about pulse motors, There are more devices and methods to experiment with. this one seems to be one of the more popular ideas using the infamous "Bedini" name even if he had nothing to do with the workings of a basic one transistor oscillator LOL. I guess I should call this one the "Lagace" motor  8)

tinman

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2023, 04:05:13 PM »
I don't see what's funny about pulse motors, There are more devices and methods to experiment with. this one seems to be one of the more popular ideas using the infamous "Bedini" name even if he had nothing to do with the workings of a basic one transistor oscillator LOL. I guess I should call this one the "Lagace" motor  8)

Hey, you can call your builds what ever you want.
But it would be a good idea to learn the difference between Back EMF and inductive kickback first, as it is very confusing when you claim to be using the Back EMF in a system, when you are really using the inductive kickback or flyback as it is also known.

Back EMF in an inductor is produced when you connect a coil/inductor to a current source, and the magnetic field starts to build through and around the coil. Inductive kickback happens when the current source is disconnected from the inductor, and the magnetic field collapses around the coil/inductor. The current flow will then continue to flow in the same direction as it was when connected to the source. The voltage will however, invert across the coil/inductor during the kickback stage.

joellagace

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2023, 04:53:39 PM »
LOL  :o TL/DR

"inductive kickback" is another common name for Back EMF, especially in the context of electrical circuits and systems.

When a current flowing through an inductive coil is suddenly interrupted, the magnetic field collapses, and the energy has to go somewhere. This can result in a sudden voltage spike or "kickback" across the coil. It's a manifestation of the principles underlying electromotive forces and provides a fascinating avenue for exploration.

"Back EMF" often describes a continuous phenomenon where the induced electromotive force opposes the direction of the applied voltage, such as in the operation of a motor.

"Inductive kickback," on the other hand, tends to describe a more sudden and transient phenomenon, like a spike in voltage when the current in an inductive circuit is abruptly interrupted.

These subtle differences in context can lead to the preference of one term over the other in specific situations.

tinman

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2023, 06:14:24 PM »
LOL  :o TL/DR

"inductive kickback" is another common name for Back EMF, especially in the context of electrical circuits and systems.

When a current flowing through an inductive coil is suddenly interrupted, the magnetic field collapses, and the energy has to go somewhere. This can result in a sudden voltage spike or "kickback" across the coil. It's a manifestation of the principles underlying electromotive forces and provides a fascinating avenue for exploration.



"Inductive kickback," on the other hand, tends to describe a more sudden and transient phenomenon, like a spike in voltage when the current in an inductive circuit is abruptly interrupted.

These subtle differences in context can lead to the preference of one term over the other in specific situations.

Quote
"inductive kickback" is another common name for Back EMF, especially in the context of electrical circuits and systems.

Only in fantasy land.
To quote EE-->A back e.m.f.(also called a Counter e.m.f.) is an e.m.f. created across an inductor by the changing magnetic flux around the conductor, produced by a change in current in the inductor.

Quote
"Back EMF" often describes a continuous phenomenon where the induced electromotive force opposes the direction of the applied voltage, such as in the operation of a motor.

Voltage has no direction. It is a potential across a circuit.
The Back EMF will produce a voltage across the inductor that is the same polarity as the source.
Current has a direction of flow. Back EMF applies to any inductor that has a voltage dropped across it.

When a voltage is dropped across an inductor, you get a Back EMF produced by the inductor of the same voltage polarity as the source voltage, which is why the value of current flow starts from 0, and increases over time as the magnetic field reaches it's peak.
When the source is disconnected from the inductor, you get inductive kickback, which has no Back EMF, which is why the current flow from the inductive kickback starts high, and decreases over time to 0.
There is no Back EMF produced during the inductive kickback part of the cycle, as the inductor is now the source, and not the sink.

In the (The secrets of Back EMF) thread, you stated in reply 24-->(When the current is turned off, the magnetic field collapses, which generates a voltage spike known as a back electromotive force (EMF) in the opposite direction of the original current)
Not that it makes much sense,( EMF in the opposite direction of the original current) but the current is not flowing in the opposite direction during the inductive kickback part of the cycle. The current will remain flowing in the same direction throughout the whole cycle. And the inductive kickback has no back EMF, as it is now the source of current.

I too use to call it Back EMF when i first started playing around with these pulsed systems 20 odd years ago.
But i soon learned the difference between Back EMF and inductive kickback.

norman6538

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2023, 02:37:41 AM »
Tinman I partially understand this
"
When a voltage is dropped across an inductor, you get a Back EMF produced by the inductor of the same voltage polarity as the source voltage, which is why the value of current flow starts from 0, and increases over time as the magnetic field reaches it's peak.
When the source is disconnected from the inductor, you get inductive kickback, which has no Back EMF, which is why the current flow from the inductive kickback starts high, and decreases over time to 0.
There is no Back EMF produced during the inductive kickback part of the cycle, as the inductor is now the source, and not the sink."

but as in the auto coil the collapsing magnetic field creates a charge that is then
pushed into the capacitor across the points and then that charge again goes back into the coil making that same magnetic field  and collapses repeating this process till it weakens to nothing.

And since the back emf or whatever is greater than the 12v supplied the fist time we have a cascading up voltage the makes an even greater HV.

So I assume there is some current going back into the coil from the capacitor.
Am I wrong?
Norman

tinman

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2023, 04:24:53 AM »
Tinman I partially understand this
"
When a voltage is dropped across an inductor, you get a Back EMF produced by the inductor of the same voltage polarity as the source voltage, which is why the value of current flow starts from 0, and increases over time as the magnetic field reaches it's peak.
When the source is disconnected from the inductor, you get inductive kickback, which has no Back EMF, which is why the current flow from the inductive kickback starts high, and decreases over time to 0.
There is no Back EMF produced during the inductive kickback part of the cycle, as the inductor is now the source, and not the sink."

but as in the auto coil the collapsing magnetic field creates a charge that is then
pushed into the capacitor across the points and then that charge again goes back into the coil making that same magnetic field  and collapses repeating this process till it weakens to nothing.

And since the back emf or whatever is greater than the 12v supplied the fist time we have a cascading up voltage the makes an even greater HV.

So I assume there is some current going back into the coil from the capacitor.
Am I wrong?
Norman

In the case of the condenser in a points ignition system, the magnetic field in the coil collapses when the points are open, not closed.
Once the points are open, current can oscillate between the coil and condenser. But once the condenser starts sending current back into the coil, it has then become the source-like the battery, and so the coil will produce some Back EMF during this part of the cycle. But during the coils kickback cycle, no Back EMF is produced by the coil, as it is now the source of current flow.

It is easy to remember
1- if the inductor is the sink of current flow, and the magnetic field is still changing in time, then you get a Back EMF
2- if the inductor is the source of current flow, then there is no Back EMF produced in the inductor.

Cloxxki

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Re: Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2023, 11:33:44 AM »
I'm far from a Bedini expert to ask this, but does anyone ever run such circuits from capacitors? Just to make sure you're not sucking chemical cycle life from the battery. Any other reason Bedini trickery wouldn't "start" let alone "loop" from capacitors?