Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 2238029 times)

tagor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1605 on: February 07, 2011, 06:23:55 PM »
So that vid isn't showing a self-sustaining device but something which powers externally whatever you call a "Bedinin coil", right? The goal, however, is to build a self-sustaining device, nothing short of it. The double pendulums in their different renditions (Milkovic, Dmitriyev etc.) are OU devices. Where is the self-sustaining system based on these devices, though?

with 12 times more output than input, it is so easy to loop this device !!
 
tomorrow we get the video ...

Merg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1606 on: February 07, 2011, 08:11:53 PM »
Here is the video :)

Return To Gravity Assisted Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1n-C5o8fZ0

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1607 on: February 07, 2011, 08:51:46 PM »
Here is the video :)

Return To Gravity Assisted Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1n-C5o8fZ0

Speaking of an impressive build ... Can only be rivaled by Aldo Costa's and similarly to the slightly less impressive Bob Kostoff's gravity machine uses compressed air. Why is it an OU machine, however? Any otput/input energy figures available?

fletcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1608 on: February 07, 2011, 10:30:02 PM »
Yeah, that's the usual speculation but it can't explain away the production of excess energy in gravity wheels such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ02MjqBk7s&feature=youtube_gdata_player , self-sustaining or not.

No .. in that video the guy is hand positioning the imbalance [as Vidar said] & in doing so has lifted the Pe of the pendulum so that it sits high at rim level - IOW's he added Potential Energy of Position into the system to prime it.

Did you see at anytime the single or dual pendulums etc ever achieve the same starting height ? - the answer is NO - what you saw was a system that acted like a chain weighted pendulum clock - it's center of mass [CoM] was lowered one time & that Pe wass converted into Ke & momentum - it is not self sustaining nor achieved a restoration of Pe to be self sustaining, therefore not OU.

Omnibus wrote > Thermodynamics never takes into account the energy put in to build a machine. The energy balance in thermodynamics is always done from the moment there is a machine available on. In this case the work of the machine starts from standstill. At that standstill the machine has certain gravitational potential energy, as a, say, ball has when sitting on a table with respect to the floor. In the case of a ball on a table, once it's let go towards the floor it can never recover the initial potential energy due to losses and never reaches the height of the table on its own. In this case the construction more than recovers the initially put in energy thus prodicing excess energy ("energy out of nothing", as it were).

Non-sense ! - see above.

To be OU a machine [already constructed] must restore its Potential Energy - if that is an oscillating device that means achieving the same or better starting height for CoM.

If that is a rotating system then the device must restore full Pe of Position & if excess Energy is available it will also manifest as excess momentum & Ke seen as excess velocity as it completes a cycle - so the conditions to be OU is that Pe is restored & to do Work there must also be excess momentum after one cycle.

Non of your examples did this, therefore NOT OU !

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330

fletcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1610 on: February 07, 2011, 10:45:08 PM »

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1611 on: February 07, 2011, 11:00:17 PM »

See above post - I doubt you'll learn it though !

No, it's you who needs to learn. Where's the proof that there's no OU in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded# ?

Bubba1

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1612 on: February 08, 2011, 02:37:04 AM »
Notice the height of the black weight at the start (0:00) and compare that height to the height of the weight as it comes around to the top again (at 0:07).  At 0:07, the black weight is slightly lower than it was at 0:00, meaning the arm has lost some potential energy and gained some kinetic energy.  I do not see OU here.

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1613 on: February 08, 2011, 02:49:03 AM »
Notice the height of the black weight at the start (0:00) and compare that height to the height of the weight as it comes around to the top again (at 0:07).  At 0:07, the black weight is slightly lower than it was at 0:00, meaning the arm has lost some potential energy and gained some kinetic energy.  I do not see OU here.

Why do you stop at 0:07s in your analysis? Starting from rest the wheel makes one turn (granted the lever is lower at 0:07s ath the completion of the first turn) but then the wheel makes another turn restoring the same lever height and almost completes yet another, third turn. Did you notice that or in order to conclude there's no OU we only have to observe experiments partially?

Is the wheel going to behave this way should the weight be attached directly to its periphery at 12 o'clock and not as a double pendulum as in the video? Will it complete even one full turn this way?

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1614 on: February 08, 2011, 03:15:02 AM »
No .. in that video the guy is hand positioning the imbalance [as Vidar said] & in doing so has lifted the Pe of the pendulum so that it sits high at rim level - IOW's he added Potential Energy of Position into the system to prime it.

Did you see at anytime the single or dual pendulums etc ever achieve the same starting height ? - the answer is NO - what you saw was a system that acted like a chain weighted pendulum clock - it's center of mass [CoM] was lowered one time & that Pe wass converted into Ke & momentum - it is not self sustaining nor achieved a restoration of Pe to be self sustaining, therefore not OU.

Omnibus wrote > Thermodynamics never takes into account the energy put in to build a machine. The energy balance in thermodynamics is always done from the moment there is a machine available on. In this case the work of the machine starts from standstill. At that standstill the machine has certain gravitational potential energy, as a, say, ball has when sitting on a table with respect to the floor. In the case of a ball on a table, once it's let go towards the floor it can never recover the initial potential energy due to losses and never reaches the height of the table on its own. In this case the construction more than recovers the initially put in energy thus prodicing excess energy ("energy out of nothing", as it were).

Non-sense ! - see above.

To be OU a machine [already constructed] must restore its Potential Energy - if that is an oscillating device that means achieving the same or better starting height for CoM.

If that is a rotating system then the device must restore full Pe of Position & if excess Energy is available it will also manifest as excess momentum & Ke seen as excess velocity as it completes a cycle - so the conditions to be OU is that Pe is restored & to do Work there must also be excess momentum after one cycle.

Non of your examples did this, therefore NOT OU !

On the contrary, what you're saying is nonsense. My explanation is valid even if someone is holding a ball at rest above ground and lets it go. The ball will not return to the same height because of losses -- therefor there's no CoE violation. In the video at hand, however, the weight obviously restores its initial height during the second turn. Therefore excess energy is produced. Unfortunately the excess energy produced is in a form which doesn't allow direct looping (restoring the inital position on the fly). That's a purely technical problem and has nothing to do with the obvious violation of CoE in this case.

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1615 on: February 08, 2011, 04:13:07 AM »
Quote
To be OU a machine [already constructed] must restore its Potential Energy - if that is an oscillating device that means achieving the same or better starting height for CoM.

If that is a rotating system then the device must restore full Pe of Position & if excess Energy is available it will also manifest as excess momentum & Ke seen as excess velocity as it completes a cycle - so the conditions to be OU is that Pe is restored & to do Work there must also be excess momentum after one cycle.

Non of your examples did this, therefore NOT OU !


These are wrong criteria for a machine to be OU. These criteria are wrong because they are restrictive – restoration of the potential energy is not a necessary condition for a machine to be OU. A given potential energy may be converted into other kinds of energies at which additional portion of energies other than potential energy can be produced out of no pre-existing energy source. Thus, smot for known reasons showing disbalance of the overall output vs. input energies is OU, magnetic propulsor also for such known reasons is an OU device etc. OU system is also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo because the magnet sphere pulled apart along different routes ends up on different potential surfaces at zero magnetic force (cf. the figure below). Thus, the integral of force along the closed L-M-K-L loop is non-zero.

fletcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1616 on: February 08, 2011, 04:17:40 AM »
No, it's you who needs to learn. Where's the proof that there's no OU in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrMwPNt9Cc&feature=player_embedded# ?

omnibus .. your talent to ego ratio is out of kilter.

Take another look at the vids - study them instead of what you're going to say next.

But, on the brighter side, your level of incompetence comes shining thru yet again in your posts !

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1617 on: February 08, 2011, 04:44:44 AM »
In the case at hand, the contention is that the mgdeltaH is the gravitational potential energy which not only helps to complete the first turn but also drives the wheel throughout an entire second turn and allows it to almost complete a third turn. That isn’t at all evident and if someone insists that such speculation is viable one has to prove it quantitatively.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 05:08:55 AM by Omnibus »

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1618 on: February 08, 2011, 04:46:13 AM »
omnibus .. your talent to ego ratio is out of kilter.

Take another look at the vids - study them instead of what you're going to say next.

But, on the brighter side, your level of incompetence comes shining thru yet again in your posts !

Quite the contrary, it's your level of incompetence that shines through your posts. Your narrow definitions and limited understanding of the matter proves it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 05:07:03 AM by Omnibus »

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #1619 on: February 08, 2011, 04:53:48 AM »
Now, because when the weight attached directly to the periphery only causes one incomplete turn we’ll subtract it from what we see in the vid. So, that mgdeltaH causes the generation of kinetic energy through two complete turns. Think about it. Is that disproportionate or what?