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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 109601 times)

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #225 on: March 18, 2017, 06:56:18 PM »
@Gotoluc

        Ok,  ha ! interesting....

Well I'll contemplate all this till it sinks in well / then give you some feed back,
when I can.

                 regards
                      floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #225 on: March 18, 2017, 06:56:18 PM »

Offline dieter

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #226 on: March 19, 2017, 03:05:17 AM »
I was just saying - let us verify the negative results with the same care like the positive ones.


This is great news, Luc.

Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #227 on: March 19, 2017, 01:00:12 PM »
Luc,


This is very encouraging news indeed.
I tried to wrap my head around this, and the attached Excel spreadsheet is the result.
Work is just force x distance and I calculated an 82% excess output work.
Hopefully, this can help others to understand it better as well.


Regards,
Alex


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #227 on: March 19, 2017, 01:00:12 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #228 on: March 19, 2017, 03:47:39 PM »
Thanks Alex

Looks very good

I'll be remeasuring the output and doubling the 40 samples to 80 sample over the 5 inch stroke.
We'll see if  that changes anything.
I'll be posting all the sample data soon.

Regards

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #229 on: March 19, 2017, 06:06:55 PM »
I've attached a xls file of my v.2 Magnet Torque Amplifier measurement data which was prepared by user webby1

Measurement Steps:

First Step:
Output slider is in rest position (already delivered output force) and is locked in position by adding a wood block.
In this position the input rotor magnet is in most attraction to the output slider magnet and this is the beginning point of the scale pull force measurements in grams.

Second Step:
Input Magnet Rotor is pulled from the rotors outer edge using a flexible steel strapping tape.
Steps 1 to 129 is a total of 16.125 linear inches of the magnet rotor outer edge travel (180 degrees) with scale pull force samples taken every 0.124 inches. 129 samples in total.
The first 57 Samples is the pull force needed to Disengage the rotor magnets from the attraction force of the output slider magnets.
Then samples 58 to 74 (in red) is the rotor magnet being temporarily attracted to the output slider magnets and why they are a negative (additive force) to the rotor.
Finally, sample 75 to 129 is the remaining pull force needed to position the rotor magnets in ideal resting position for the output slider magnets deliver maximum force.

Third Step:
Input Rotor is locked at this position which is 16.125 inch, 180 degrees from beginning measurement position.
The Output slider is released and the output slider magnets pull force is measured over its 5 linear inches (taken every 0.125 inch) of the magnet sliders output travel force.

Please note the input rotor and output slider force has been measured 180 degrees of input rotor which delivers one output stroke.
I have not bothered (at this time) to measure the other 180 degrees since in theory it should be a mirror image of the prior.

Regards

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #229 on: March 19, 2017, 06:06:55 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #230 on: March 19, 2017, 07:03:56 PM »
The below are input and output charts


Luc

Offline woopy

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #231 on: March 20, 2017, 12:16:44 AM »
Yep Luc

Fantastic work

If i understand well, the measurement begins after the stroke ends,  when the  the rotor and slider are at full stop.

I enclose a rotating drawing made on your graph, so correct me if i am wrong

Seems that  i have to order some magnets and sliding bearings  tomorrow he he !!  :)

Thank's so much for sharing

Laurent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #231 on: March 20, 2017, 12:16:44 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #232 on: March 20, 2017, 04:45:38 AM »
Bonjour Laurent

It's always a pleasure having you participate

Your understanding of the test device and timing drawings are perfect. Thank you for posting it.

Looking forward to your build and test results

Kind regards

Luc
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 04:44:01 PM by gotoluc »

Offline woopy

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #233 on: March 21, 2017, 05:23:33 PM »
Hi webby and Luc

Just received my ferrites magnets this morning.

To Luc

I am planning a setup and i rewatched your  video on the V2 device for details. It seems that you say that the rotor diameter is 22 inches so the outer rotor distance is 22 x 3.1416 = about 69 inches, so half distance (180 degrees)  is 69 / 2 = about 34.5 inches. So i don't see where the 16.125 inches (in your last calculation for 180 degrees ) are coming from ? Have you installed a second rotor for the measurement or i am missing something ?

To Webby

Thank's for input
Sorry if you have already done it, but may i ask you to explain how you get the Joules datas from the colum " gram pull"

Laurent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #233 on: March 21, 2017, 05:23:33 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #234 on: March 21, 2017, 06:40:14 PM »
Hi webby and Luc

Just received my ferrites magnets this morning.

To Luc

I am planning a setup and i rewatched your  video on the V2 device for details. It seems that you say that the rotor diameter is 22 inches so the outer rotor distance is 22 x 3.1416 = about 69 inches, so half distance (180 degrees)  is 69 / 2 = about 34.5 inches. So i don't see where the 16.125 inches (in your last calculation for 180 degrees ) are coming from ? Have you installed a second rotor for the measurement or i am missing something ?

To Webby

Thank's for input
Sorry if you have already done it, but may i ask you to explain how you get the Joules datas from the colum " gram pull"

Laurent

Oh no Laurent, I now see a terrible error!... the 16.125 inches was for each section of disengage then engage. So the 16.125 inches would have to be multiply by 2 = 32.25 inches of outer rotor traveled for 180 degrees, making the rotor 20.53 inches in diameter and the device under unity from the calculated math.

So the input rotor traveled 6.45 times the distance of the output. So input average is 1.1Kg x 6.45 = 7.1Kg input to 6.25Kg of output so under unity by about 12%

I'm so sorry for your trouble and expenses.
Please accept my apology.

At everyone, please accept my apology for the trouble my over site may of caused

Kind regards

Luc

Offline woopy

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #235 on: March 21, 2017, 07:35:53 PM »

Hi Luc

Yep, don't worry at all, we are here to test everything possible under the "trial and error" rule for the doer. Furthermore ferrite magnets are not expensive, and i will anyway use them for other stuff.
Ah those magnets will keep the mystery  for some more time.
Anyway thank's for sharing your work and for your determination in searching new way for the future.
Keep going on, as i will, once will be perhaps  the.......

Hi webby

thank's for your clear explanation

Good night at all

Laurent






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #235 on: March 21, 2017, 07:35:53 PM »
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Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #236 on: March 22, 2017, 01:49:43 PM »
Oh no Laurent, I now see a terrible error!... the 16.125 inches was for each section of disengage then engage. So the 16.125 inches would have to be multiply by 2 = 32.25 inches of outer rotor traveled for 180 degrees, making the rotor 20.53 inches in diameter and the device under unity from the calculated math.

So the input rotor traveled 6.45 times the distance of the output. So input average is 1.1Kg x 6.45 = 7.1Kg input to 6.25Kg of output so under unity by about 12%

I'm so sorry for your trouble and expenses.
Please accept my apology.

At everyone, please accept my apology for the trouble my over site may of caused

Kind regards

Luc


Luc,


It seems to me, based on your description of measurement steps, that you've accounted for all the input work required for one output stroke.
Your measurement range only needs to be in between when the rotor magnet first feels a magnetic force and when it last feels a magnetic force from the slider magnet.
The graphs from the Excel spreadsheet shows that the pull forces diminishes to almost zero on both ends which indicates that you've accounted for the full range.
Any distances beyond that range should be free wheel.


Regards,
Alex


Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #237 on: March 22, 2017, 02:42:25 PM »
Luc,

It seems to me, based on your description of measurement steps, that you've accounted for all the input work required for one output stroke.
Alex

Yes Alex, I've accounted for all the input work required to produce one output stroke.

Your measurement range only needs to be in between when the rotor magnet first feels a magnetic force and when it last feels a magnetic force from the slider magnet.
Alex

Yes, I understand what you are saying but I don't see that helping as it would not account for the area of rotation where the rotor is being assisted by attraction to the slider, (negative red data) making the result even worse.

The graphs from the Excel spreadsheet shows that the pull forces diminishes to almost zero on both ends which indicates that you've accounted for the full range.
Any distances beyond that range should be free wheel.
Alex

I think there is a miss understanding. A full rotation is 360 degrees and I measured 180 degrees.
There are 2 output strokes for 1 rotor rotation.
I measured the first 180 degrees of the rotor which created 1 output. The balance of the other 180 degrees is for the second output stroke and as I wrote before should be a mirror image of the first measured 180 degree. So how can that be free wheeling?... the same work would have to be put into the rotor to complete the 2nd output.

Kind regards

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #238 on: March 22, 2017, 04:27:28 PM »
Dear Webby1

I am re-posting the perfect 5 step illustration Woopy has added at the bottom of the chart you provided.
Do you not see it illustrate a 180 degrees of rotor travel?

The 16.125 inches of rotor distance is 90 degrees worth, so as I previously wrote 180 degrees rotor distance is twice that, being 32.25 inches and 64.5 inches for the complete rotor circumference.

Regards

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #239 on: March 22, 2017, 04:44:53 PM »
Hi Luc

Yep, don't worry at all, we are here to test everything possible under the "trial and error" rule for the doer. Furthermore ferrite magnets are not expensive, and i will anyway use them for other stuff.
Ah those magnets will keep the mystery  for some more time.
Anyway thank's for sharing your work and for your determination in searching new way for the future.
Keep going on, as i will, once will be perhaps  the.......

Hi webby

thank's for your clear explanation

Good night at all

Laurent

Bonjour Laurent,

You may want to test Floor's recent suggestion of magnet shielding: http://overunity.com/17097/magnet-force-shield/msg502025/#msg502025

Floor's video demo: http://overunity.com/17097/magnet-force-shield/msg502025/#msg502025

Kind regards

Luc

 

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