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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 109947 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #195 on: March 09, 2017, 04:56:39 PM »
Thanks Carroll for your input.

If the suggestion was to be used I was thinking of a very large scale like 20+ inches in order to allow for toleration differences.
Do you still think it's not possible?

Regards

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #195 on: March 09, 2017, 04:56:39 PM »

Offline citfta

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #196 on: March 09, 2017, 05:59:31 PM »
Making it that large will certainly help with the precision problem.  Most of the ones on the machines I worked on were about 15 to 20 inches in diameter as I recall.  Of course they were used to move some pretty heavy tool change equipment so that made them more susceptible to problems.  With your skill at building I think you can probably make a 20 inch one work.  I would like to see one made from plywood.  That would be impressive.  They are pretty interesting to watch them work.  Once they change to the next position they hold that position very accurately until told to change again.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #197 on: March 09, 2017, 07:10:03 PM »
Hi Alex,

User name TinselKoala made a suggestion of using a Scotch Yoke (1st pic) to convert the linear output to rotary.
The problem with it is there's no rest time. However, I thought there could be a way to modify the Scotch Yoke to create a pause time and found a variation that does exactly that (2nd pic)   Link to animation: http://www.mekanizmalar.com/uk012.html

The same site also has an Indexing mechanism (3rd pic). Link to animation: http://www.mekanizmalar.com/four-slot-two-pin-geneva-mechanism.html
This mechanism may do what we need to turn the rotor in four segments of rotation, stop, lock and pause.

As it is my magnet rotor only has 2 sets of magnets but I could add a second set without too much work and expense to advantage of the 4 position of this indexing mechanism.

I like both of these mechanism instead of gears since I could cut them out of plywood with a router.

Food for thought

Luc


Luc,


I've modeled a track follower setup which captures the stop and go motion.  This is a linear reciprocating design with both input and output magnets moving linearly.
This video shows a the basic idea of a track follower setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqyiLaUw5g&feature=youtu.be
This setup does not take advantage of the self reset(because I just wanted to model quickly and show the basic idea), however, a self reset design can be achieved.
I will have to think a little more about how to mechanically loop your latest build/setup.


Regards,
Alex


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #197 on: March 09, 2017, 07:10:03 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #198 on: March 09, 2017, 08:05:40 PM »
That mechanism looks great Alex ;)

This kind of cam follower design I can make with a router. So that's the best to start with.

Thanks for taking the time to help!

Luc

Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #199 on: March 10, 2017, 01:55:25 AM »
That mechanism looks great Alex ;)

This kind of cam follower design I can make with a router. So that's the best to start with.

Thanks for taking the time to help!

Luc


Luc,


Thank you, I am glad I can help!  The geometry of the track/cam may need some tweaking to enable a smoother motion, but this is a minor problem.
The one thing that bothers me is that I am not sure of the efficiency of a cam and follower, more specifically the one that I've shown in the video.
If anyone is familiar with the efficiency of a cam and follower, please chime in.


If you print the cam/track out and glue the print onto a piece of plywood and then you can cut the track with a router.
With your workmanship, I am sure you can make it ;) .
But, if accuracy becomes too much of a problem, I can make the cam/track with my CNC mill after I get back from my travels. 
However, my CNC mill is quite small and can only make small parts.  But I can always break larger components into smaller parts and assemble into a larger component later on.
Let me know how you would like to proceed.  I can design a cam/track with info provided by you and send you the drawing so you can attempt to make it, or I can make it when I get back.


Regards,
Alex






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #199 on: March 10, 2017, 01:55:25 AM »
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Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #200 on: March 10, 2017, 02:12:43 AM »

The proposed operation is this (referring to the earlier version where force measurements were done):

1) The stroke length of the slider was already about 10 times shorter than the travel length of the rotor magnet. If you allow the slider to deliver its work even faster say 10 times faster than the speed of the rotor magnet, then the freely rotating rotor will travel only about 1/100th distance of the stroke during the movement of the slider. This is negligible, and it nicely approximates a perfectly synchronized rotor-slider. It is also possible that a slower movement of the slider would be also satisfactory. Like for example just let both slider and rotor move at the same speed. In that case the rotor would travel 1/10th of the rotor’s stroke distance while the slider completes its stroke. One can calculate how much efficiency gets lost this way and find an optimum, a compromise between practicality and ideal condition.

2) The synchronous operation can be guaranteed by using a toque brake on the shaft, and keeping the RPM of the rotor at sufficiently low level, so that the slider should be able to complete the stroke before the rotor travels a significant distance away from the synchronous position. The torque developed on the brake can be measured, just like the RPM, from which one can calculate the output power.

3) A large enough flywheel will absorb and smooth out any jerky movement, and contribute to the slow synchronous operation.

4) A timing latch could be utilized (similar to the one used in old pendulum clocks) to time and synchronize the release of the slider magnets at the right moments, only slightly before the rotor completely covers the slider magnet.

5) The linear bidirectional movement of the slider can be rectified and converted to unidirectional rotation using two bicycle hubs (or similar ratchet mechanism), one on each side. One on the left side drives the flywheel while moving forward, and the other on the right side drives it while moving backwards.

6) this way a continuous rotatory movement can be sustained, with an easy and handy way of measuring the output power. No need for accelerating and decelerating the output wheel, or stroke. But it would make sense to start designing such a machine only after precise reliable measurements prove the existence of at least 20-30% of excess energy. Anything below that would make it challenging to overcome the losses, and it would have no practical significance anyway.


Nonlinear,


Thank you for you detailed input.  Your proposed design is a good way to to mechanically loop Luc's design.
However, I think a cam and follower setup(like it is shown in this video[size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqyiLaUw5g[/size]) is simpler and better captures the motion of the operational sequence.
Perhaps, I place too much emphasis on maximizing output and minimizing input, but every little bit helps ;) .


Regards,
Alex


Offline Drak

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #201 on: March 10, 2017, 04:57:37 AM »
Hi gotoluc,

I think it would probably be best if you did not lock the output to the input. I would make sure that your output is able to ADD to the input instead of having to wait on the input before it can move. As long as they are in resonance with each other (the timing is correct) it should work. You would need a mechanical capacitor to store the energy but still have the rotor turn at the same speed (the hard part). You wouldn't be able to have it going faster then the slider can handle or it will go out of resonance like in your video when you have to adjust the speed to get the slider working at full swings. If you mechanically lock the output to the input it will be like trying observe an electron without disturbing it. They both need to move freely on their own.

Just my thoughts. Great builds I love your work!

drak

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #201 on: March 10, 2017, 04:57:37 AM »
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Offline Nonlinear

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #202 on: March 10, 2017, 02:16:34 PM »
Thank you for you detailed input.  Your proposed design is a good way to to mechanically loop Luc's design.
However, I think a cam and follower setup(like it is shown in this video[size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqyiLaUw5g[/size]) is simpler and better captures the motion of the operational sequence.
Perhaps, I place too much emphasis on maximizing output and minimizing input, but every little bit helps ;) .

Alex,
Your cam follower design is good; it will allow the mechanism to rotate at higher speeds as well, while keeping the synchronous movement. Regarding efficiency though, I am not convinced that the cam follower would waste less energy than what I have proposed, because the roller bearings are wasting energy along the whole path of the tracks, which can get excessive at high speeds of rotation. But if there would be really 60% excess energy, then both designs should be able to at least self-run.

The problem is not with the feedback mechanism, but rather with the claim of excess energy. Despite my original reluctance, I have forced myself to read through the other related threads of Floor, and now my suspicions of deliberate deception have been confirmed. There is definitely no excess energy in such purely permanent magnet arrangements, just as theory predicts. Lumen’s improved measurements have proven this already (in the now closed thread) here:
http://overunity.com/14311/work-from-2-magnets-19-output-2/msg498010/#msg498010
and Stefan has closed the thread as well, because the subject is closed (no overunity). Despite the correct disproof, the agenda to mislead and deceive is still in full swing with a show of nice looking contraptions and fake (or grossly erroneous) measurement results.

Another example of disproof is webby1’s attempt to convince Luc that he has to measure the 4th part of the cycle as well, in one of his earlier devices. He finally succeeded in this effort in post:
http://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg496971/#msg496971
and Luc has reluctantly provided the data in:
http://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg496974/#msg496974
When this 4th part of the cycle was taken into account, then Luc’s averaging calculations showed only 10% of excess work, which can be very easily attributed to the other bad measurement practices mentioned earlier.

Without free energy being created, the whole show of nice devices and designs are nothing more than the shiny paint on the car from which the engine is missing (useless).

As an illustration of this absurdity there is a famous example called overbalanced wheel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
The gravitational field is conservative just like a spring. You can not get more continuous work from gravity than what you have to invest, and this is completely independent of the path of movement. One can not get more work out from a spring than what one has to invest while pressing it together. It doesn’t matter whether the spring is linear or nonlinear, it is still conservative and it is very easy to prove this.

The magnetic field can be imagined as a net made of millions of tiny springs that react only with magnetic materials. It does not matter how complex net you form from such springs, they still remain conservative. The magnetic field is conservative, and Lumen has already proven this, but some people prefer to ignore this fact.

I know that it is possible to create overunity generators, for example cold fusion is one of them. Accurate measurements performed by qualified physicists prove that. But purely permanent magnet arrangements will definitely not produce overunity. Therefore I will not post on this subject for a while, because now my interest is only in observing the psychology of deception. I will just sit back and observe how far a hoax can go before some readers get fed up with the nonsense and start kicking some butts. When the whole thing blows over, then I will come back to say: “I told you so… didn’t I”  ;D

Offline citfta

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #203 on: March 10, 2017, 02:47:34 PM »
Nonlinear,

You are way out of line.  I don't know Floor that well but I have known Luc for years.  To accuse him of deliberately misleading is very wrong.  Luc is a dedicated researcher looking for the truth.  He has tried to follow any suggestions from anyone to make his measurements more accurate.  He has not claimed OU anywhere that I am aware of.  He only presents the results of his tests.  When he sees results that look promising he will pursue those results until he is convinced they do not lead to an OU device.  That is research, not deception.  You owe him an apology for suggesting he is deliberately misleading others.

As far as OU goes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.  I worked in electronics for over 50 years and have seen several times things that left me scratching my head.  So I do believe OU MAY be possible.  I am not convinced it IS possible nor am I convinced it is NOT possible.  So I continue with my own research and follow the research of others like Luc that are willing to share their efforts.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #203 on: March 10, 2017, 02:47:34 PM »
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Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #204 on: March 10, 2017, 02:49:40 PM »
Nonlinear,


Luc's current design is different than the original TD setup.  I will perform measurements to help verify Luc's measurement results after I get back from my business travels(hopefully I will be back in about 3 weeks). 


Regards,
Alex

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #205 on: March 10, 2017, 04:13:30 PM »
Well Nonlinear

There you have it, you're confused and creating confusion. It's obviously you haven't read all the topics and posts to come to the conclusions in your last post.

What I'm working on at present is different then what Floor originally proposed and I first tested.

Here is a link to my last report (posted Feb. 8th 2017) on my presision tests done to Floor's twist drive concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMqBISjwieY

And here is my new device concept which was posted on the same day introducing my own design which I named "Mechanical Magnet Torque Amplifier":  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUlDMY1iE5A
This is the design that is being discuss and tested at this time and is not related to the old information in your post above.

Your error may cause others to question your integrity and reasons for being here.

We will see

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #205 on: March 10, 2017, 04:13:30 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #206 on: March 10, 2017, 04:40:05 PM »
@ All readers

I threw up..... a new video.
It shows an effective magnet shield in action.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5eg7kk_magnetshield-1_tech

As far as I'm concerned, this is all open source and public domain.
All in common...that's the only real over unity there is. 
              Thanks for every thing Luc.
                 Peace... Out
                     floor

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #207 on: March 10, 2017, 04:50:21 PM »
@ Allreaders

QUOTE from Nonlinear

"Stefan has closed the thread as well, because the subject is closed (no overunity). Despite the correct disproof, the agenda to mislead and deceive is still in full swing with a show of nice looking contraptions and fake (or grossly erroneous) measurement results. "

END QUOTE

That  thread was not "closed", but rather it was locked at my (floor's) request.

Offline Nonlinear

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #208 on: March 10, 2017, 08:41:09 PM »
Luc's current design is different than the original TD setup. 

Quote from: gotoluc
There you have it, you're confused and creating confusion. It's obviously you haven't read all the topics and posts to come to the conclusions in your last post. What I'm working on at present is different then what Floor originally proposed and I first tested.

Well, you fellas don’t get it, do you? I’m fully aware that Luc’s magnet arrangement is slightly different than the original of Floor. It absolutely does not matter along which path you move or twist the two magnets in relation to one another, they still behave like a system of passive and conservative springs. If the force is greater in one direction, then the path to travel will be shorter, and vice versa. If you accurately measure and correctly integrate the total work, you will see that there is no overunity. Not in Floor’s design, not in Luc’s design, not in Joe’s, Fred’s, and Julie’s designs, not in anybodies designs of purely passive permanent magnet systems.

The difference between Floor’s and Luc’s versions are analogous to the difference between this design of Bhaskara’s overbalanced wheel:
http://www.trevorbaylisbrands.com/tbbnew/technology/perpetual/unbalanced.asp
and this modified version called Chain Drive Gravity Machine:
http://pesn.com/2012/01/05/9602001_Free_Energy_Chain_Drive_Gravity_Machine_Open_Source_Project_Launched/

The crackpot line of thinking goes like this:
Quote
I have built the Bhaskara wheel, and damn… it doesn’t work. But wait! I am smarter than Bhaskara was, I will design a chain drive instead, which is completely different and therefore it has nothing to do with Bhaskara’s failed idea.

Then someone who knows physics comes along, and tells the new inventor that his gadget, which is trying to use the same principle of overbalanced weights (as Bahaskara did) to extract free energy from the conservative field of gravity will not work. This can not possibly extract free energy form the conservative field of gravity, just like Bhaskara’s wheel didn’t work, because they both are basically and principally the same.

But our zealous inventor accuses the commenter that he is totally confused and spreads confusion, because he can not even see that the chain drive is totally different from the Bahskara’s drive. Therefore, he must be a crackpot, lacking any integrity, so the audience should despise the commenter and applaud the inventor. LOL.  ;D
Quote
Your error may cause others to question your integrity and reasons for being here.

Oh, really? I am so ashamed that my stupidity and utter ignorance did not allow me to see the difference between your design and Floor’s design. LOL … LOL … LOL  ;D In fact this implicit call of yours that others should question my integrity is one sign of mean agenda and deliberate deception, but there are many more such signs.

I have a long list of such signs and symptoms collected during my reading the threads of Floor and this one, which all together indicate deliberate deception. I don’t claim such a thing lightly, but I do that only because all the telltale signs are present, which are characteristic of an organized hoax. I don’t want to post this list of symptoms (yet) because it would only help the culprits to refine their methods of deception.

If the readers can read between the lines, know some physics, and observe the actions and reactions of the participants, then they will be able to see what I mean. But, if one is a staunch believer in crackpottery, and despite my warnings still believes there is 60% overunity in this system, then he should build the machine himself, and wake up to the reality the hard way.

OK, I said earlier that I will not comment on this subject for a while, but this issue needed to be clarified first. I will withdraw now and observe the show. Will be back at the end of the performance, and respond to the accusations and slander that will be probably aimed at me while I am not around to defend myself.  ;D

Offline dieter

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #209 on: March 10, 2017, 09:53:17 PM »
Nonlinear, so you say ferromagnetism and gravity is the same. I would not agree with that. There is a certain basic understanding of magnets, the fridge magnet level. But the longer you really observe and investigate magnetism, the more you'll see that there's more to it.
The fact that we used Teslas design without to improve it for over 100 years shows, how closedminded the establishment really is. Who would finance development of energy-efficient machines when energy is the most lucrative economy in the world? And as soon as something is against the establishment, any pro will drop it immediately. Which is why there are up to this day incredibly simple ways to violate the law of energy conservation, completely unnoticed by mainstream science.


I asked this elsewhere too, please explain me the following:
a certain exact DC pulse on a coil will repell the coil further away from a PM, the stronger thw PM is. Where does that additional energy come from?

 

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