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Author Topic: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2  (Read 49759 times)

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2016, 05:43:57 AM »
This topic is a presentation of a simple Over Unity device.
The device is not a motor, and does not self loop.
It is designed to test a principle.

A particular set of interactions between 2 magnets along with the measurements
of these interaction are described in detail.

The interactions demonstrate > 19% over unity.

In its original form,  the device is presented with,  input against and output by repulsion (magnetic).

This, the latest addition to the topic, is a PDF ANIMATION of a set of interactions where in,
the input and output of the device are against magnetic attractions.

It is open source.

Yes I'm claiming that this is over unity.

Pleae see the attached "TDanimation against attraction4.pdf" below

                                          floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2016, 05:43:57 AM »

Offline norman6538

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2016, 02:42:23 AM »
19% OU is small. I have several permanent magnet setups that give 100% OU but then
the problem is to reset so another cycle can be done and from all I have seen it takes
about 200% OU to get into a self running cycle. I did work with this idea of 2 magnets
side by side and twisting so I'll reconsider this now.  Thanks for showing the ideas.

Norman

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2016, 03:18:52 PM »
@ Norman6538

Are you you in contact with GammaRayBurst these days ?

The twist drive shows 19.131% O.U.  AFTER and INCLUDEING reset to the
starting position.  This is a measurement result... not a theoretical / calculation.
But does not include losses to.... friction and 2 motion reset springs.

Before reset the joules in to joules out ratio is (209 input to 301 out put).
This reduces to about 31% (if  I'm remembering correctly)

Full cycling requires only the attachment of 2 light springs to the unit
to cause the return / reset strokes.

Cascading of and / or full circle cycling between multiple units is possible.  I'd
do a video if this were proof... but its not.  Instead I'm challenging any one,
to prove this wrong. 

                  Floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2016, 12:37:26 AM »
@ Norman 6538

Input was 76.01% of output before return / reset strokes.
100 /301.8 = 0.3313,  0.3313 x 229.41= 76.01 %.

Output was 131.5 % of input before return / reset strokes.
100 / 229.41 = 0.4359, 0.4359 x 301.8 = 131.55 %.
...................................
Output minus input minus combined return / reset strokes = 43.89.
301.8 - 229.41 - 28.5 = 43.89 (total gain after return strokes).

Total gain was 19.131 % of  input, after return / reset strokes.
100 / 229.41 = 0.4359, 0.4359 x 43.89 = 19.13168 %

Output was 119.131 % greater than input, after return / reset strokes.

19.131 % is a conservative figure.

Several factors in the measurements were fudged toward more
conservative values during measurements.   This was to insure
that any (my own) personal bias in favor of an O.U. out come
might be neutralized.

As one example, there is a great deal of / constant friction present during
the rotational return stroke measurement.  This is due to a design flaw in
the measuring device, which causes levering upon the bearing by the shaft.
This levering, in turn causes the RO return stroke to require more input than
could realistically have been achieved if using a better bearing / shaft design.
As a result, the graph (grams x displacement for RO return), is probably
representative of about twice the work actually required for that motion.

                                       Floor

Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2016, 12:04:32 PM »
So you're prepared to state that your device is OU to 5 signifcant digits but the apparatus is probably 'only half' as accurate as it could be..  Sounds like a recipe for 100% BS to me. I would say your measurements are not accurate enough to make any such claims. Equally likely is that the starting and ending conditions of each set of measurememts are not identical and thus do no represent the energy balance around a full cycle, as would be required to prove OU.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2016, 12:04:32 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2016, 03:37:35 PM »
@LibreEnergia


Quote
"So you're prepared to state that your device is OU to 5 significant digits but the apparatus is probably 'only half' as accurate as it could be.. "
.............
Use of more than 3 significant digits in the explanations is just my habit.  I have already stated this in the PDF files.

I'm prepared to state that the device and measurements show >19% more work out than in, in just the way I stated this in the files
presented.

The measureing device is probably only accurate to around 0.025.
.............
.............
Quote
"Sounds like a recipe for 100% BS to me. " 
.............
.............
No coment, except that Im willing to discuss it.  That is why I have posted the work here.
.............
Quote
"I would say your measurements are not accurate enough to make any such claims. "
.............
.............
I would say that they are accurate enough to make the claims.
.............
Quote
"Equally likely is that the starting and ending conditions of each set of measurements are not identical and thus do no represent the energy balance around a full cycle, as would be required to prove OU."
.............
.............
Likey yes, however they are "identical" except as detailed in the doucuments

I would very much like hear your views on this matter as well.  The starting and ending conditions are explained in great detail in the files.

I'm very much interested in well stated / accurate criticism.  This is a critical part of the process I am looking for.


                             I hope you will have / post  more observations / criticisms / advice
                             Thanks for input input
                                            Floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2016, 04:35:52 PM »
@LibreEnergia

Addendum

Quote "So you're prepared to state that your device is OU to 5 signifcant digits but the apparatus is probably 'only half' as accurate as it could be.."
.............
Again, no, I'm not claiming 5 significant digits.  43% of the reason I include 5 digits (Some times a lot more than 5) is to see if, who is responding knows their s__t .  7% is just to stimulate certain anal retentive types, who appear to be in desperate need of taking a S__t .  Then 50% is just to see big beautiful numbers come around to perfect solutions.

In reviewing your above comment, I think I now see more clearly the point you are making. 

The "RO shaft / bearing" sticky characteristic I was describing gives rise to a more conservative outcome in the ratios of work in to work out....

This is to say that the work in to work out ratios would have been more O.U. if the  shaft / bearing" sticky characteristic were reduced.  A larger "R.O return / reset stroke" value,  unfavorably decreases the output value in term of O.U..  The stick characteristic speaks in favor of my O.U. conclusion.

        floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2016, 04:35:52 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2016, 05:18:48 AM »
I'm in the process of building a new measureing device.  The new unit is
capable of much more precise motions.  It  is built useing  linear and
rotary ball bearings throught.

The new unit is versital and modular so that it can be used to measureing
a wide variety of magnet interactions.
 
Please see the attached photos.

               floor

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2016, 06:10:40 AM »
Hi Floor,

Very nice build of your test device. Thanks for sharing.

I noticed your topic back in May and glad to see you're continuing the tests and research.

Would it be possible for you to make a video of your test device in operation?  it would help answer so many question.

Thanks for your time

Luc

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2016, 07:11:57 AM »
Hi Luc

A video of the measuring process would be cumbersome, as the measurement
process is its self...   a long and tedious undertaking.

I have roughly detailed the two magnets interactions during the measurements as an animation.
It is called  "TDanimation 1.PDF".  It is located on the first page of this topic.

I am very willing to answer any questions you have.  Also I would very much so appreciate your
asking those questions, as  the questions and answers may clarify the subject for many others ? 

                 Best wishes
                              floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2016, 07:11:57 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2016, 04:13:19 PM »
Thanks for the reply Floor

I had gone through your pdf documents which btw are professionally prepared. Thanks
I think I've got a good idea of what you're doing, just like to see one or two cycles (motion only) of your new test device.
How much time would it take for 2 cycles (without measurements) to occur? 

Regards

Luc

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2016, 05:48:13 PM »
@ Luc

Thank you for having given the diligence to examine the PDF docs.

The new test unit build is not yet finished. My limited and some what
primative shop space slow the process (lots of hand work).

I am in the process of building the "RO" (rotating) module.

Next will be a large dial indicator for attaching to the SL (sliding) module.
This dial indicator will be a separate module. The separation will eliminate
certain inaccuracies caused by the stretching of the SL weight string, while it is
under the influence of the heavier weight increment objects.

I could at this time, do a video of the original unit, if that will suffice ? That device
is in need of only some minor maintenance.

I could breifly demonstrate the "motion only", by first installing the mid range and then
the heaviest of  the weight objects (first SL then RO while SL is near RO). 

Note... such a demonstration will potentially be misleading to viewers not
understanding the details of the measuring device / process.  As, both the input
and the output must occur along a "force curve" in order that work can be
cyclically done,

                    Again best wishes
                            floor

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2016, 07:18:42 PM »
Thanks again for your reply Floor.

I would think your first test device would be fine for visually seeing the operation and effect.

If you're okay with making a quick and simple video demo I'm sure many would appreciate it.
It may also get others to experiment with the concept as well.

Thanks for your time and sharing

Luc

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2016, 08:17:12 PM »
@ Luc

Thanks for sugesting a video, Will do.

I could use a break from the new build any way.


              floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2016, 06:38:46 PM »
@ Luc

I made a 5 min. vid... It came out Ok. But when I went to upload, it was very slow / upload failed, twice.

This gave me pause to reconsider the (value to the project) and the (value to  other researchers)
of posting  the video.

I'm interested at this point, in PR as in pear review, not PR as in public relations.

9,000 views....  585 downloads of the first doc.  What percentage of those 585  read and
understand the measurement made ??? ... I could only speculate.

VALID observations and criticisms and or clearly stated questions are more valuable to me
than large numbers of views or praise at this time, although the latter is also greatly appreciated.

Bottom line,, I'm not posting the video link at this time.

                      Thanks for your time and interest
                                 
                          best wishes
                                     floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2016, 06:38:46 PM »

 

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