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Author Topic: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2  (Read 84323 times)

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2016, 08:10:32 PM »
@ConradElectro

(Quote from ConradElectro)
"I like to make a prediction: if one uses very big magnets and very heavy weights (several kilos) the difference in friction losses will be smaller (in case the machine is mechanically well built) because the friction losses will be smaller in comparison to the magnet force involved."
(END QUTE)

Agreement. 

The friction losses in the greater force interactions are a lesser percentage as compared to friction losses during the lesser force interactions, when using these "weak" magnets, but while useing this "mechanically more well built machine".
but also while using the current, "mechanically more well built machine".

               regards
                    floor

@ Lumen


CNC machines, a digital scale and friction is reduced to near zero.

     very very cool


               regards
                    floor


Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2016, 07:44:34 PM »
Hey big dogs and so on.

Below is a video link to a particular set of interactions  /  measurements, done on the new
TD unit. 

                http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4p1ome_magnet-force-test_tech

That video is PASS WORD PROTECTED at this time. 

You can PM me for the pass word. 

I ask that you do not "share" the pass word. I will probably unlock the video
in a few days any way. 

Please just ask me and, I will most likely give you the pass word.

                   Cheers
                           floor

Offline lumen

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2016, 01:24:43 AM »
@Floor
So to get this right,
You are showing that the weight on the "Linear Slide" is lighter and travels less than the weight it's lifting on the Rotary axis which travels further and is heavier?

It's an interesting setup for sure.



Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2016, 03:02:13 AM »
@lumen

Yes, the sliding SLedge displacement  is from 12 deg. to 34 deg on the degree
scale, as gravity pulls  the SL weight down.  The SL weight is 158 grams.

The displacement (mm) of the SL weight,  is indicated by the degrees of
rotation on the SL dial.

This is  a common type of device, and used to indicate a displacement with a needle
upon dial face.

The ratio of the circumference of the SL scale pulley, to the circumference traveled
in the larger arc of the SL scale needle tip, is a fixed ratio.  It is simply the ratio of
the two circumferences to one another.

This makes very small magnet movements visible as larger movements by the needle.
It magnify s the motion and makes finer increments of readings possible.

The ROtational scale does the same thing in terms of the RO weight, and with an
identical ratio of pulley circumference to needle tip arc circumference.

It's just that in the case of the SL side if the actions, a  linear and horizontal displacement
(of the SLedge), as well as the fall distance of the SL weight is indicated by the needle.


.....................................................
What you see in the video is SL weight (158 grams) falls about 1/2 the distance that the
RO weight (168 grams) is lifted. 

43 degrees on the RO scale, and 22 degrees on the SL scale.
The RO weight travels only 1/43 less than twice the distance of SLand yet
the RO weight is 10 grams heavier than the SL weight.
........................................................


But, by definition...... no net work is done.....

unless the two magnets can be returned to their original or starting positions ....
with out doing the same amount of work as is done by the difference in work
between these 2 other actions, ie.  158 grams lifted by 22 degrees (in) : 168 grams lifted
by 43 degrees (out).

As seemingly amazing as the actions are, the video is just an interesting and dramatic demo.

But then those actions are not... precisely... the interactions that need measuring.

                             floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2016, 07:57:48 AM »
A little math,

I have converted the rotation degrees into the mm of weight
displacement.  see the PNG files below

                  floor

Offline norman6538

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2016, 03:47:10 PM »
Thanks Floor for your work and measurement posts. You like me have an OU device
which I believe proves that not all energy/work done is conserved. However many
don't believe the measurements but insist on a self running device. I have a magnet
setup that is over 100% but my estimate is that it takes about 200% to get self
running.  So no one has any interest in my devices because with heads in the sand they think - no OU unless it self runs. And I say Faraday and others did not start out
with a 3 phase AC motor. They got there step by step and so can we.

Keep at it Floor.

Norman

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2016, 07:24:33 PM »
Thanks Norman
 You too

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2016, 07:33:10 PM »
I heard a lecturer once say "Our goals become our limitations"

I am not in some respects very qualified for this undertaking. This
project is in fact, the first time in my life that I have ever under taken
to measure and graph force interactions.  Typos abound during
my late night sessions, and when I am burning the candle at both ends.
Note..Although cut and paste writing methods are very time efficient,
they also give rise to their own unique variety of typo. ah ha !

The process I am engaged in, has two main parts
..........................................................
A first part is to measure sets of force interactions between the
RO magnet and the SL magnet to determine the optimum work-out
to work-in ratios.  These measurements must include the work done,
to return both RO and SL to their starting positions.   
Yes, I'm attempting O.U..

There are many many fascinating possibilities of variations in
magnet shapes to explore.  One could, I think, spend years
exploring this aspect alone.

At little later point in this letter, I will give some details, of one
of the magnet shapes, I would like to examine in the near future.
...........................................
A second part  of the process, is to measure and map a force helix
between the RO and SL magnets.

Quote from Spok (The wrath of Kahn)
 "He's intelligent but lacks experience. Analysis shows, his thinking
 is two dimensional."
............................................
SHAPE
1. A slight "propeller edge" on (the facing each other) edges, of the RO and SL magnets.
There exists a drawing of this, in previous postings.

2. A longer (along it's long axis) SL magnet then the RO magnet (along it's long axis).
               or
3. A longer (along it's long axis) RO magnet then the SL magnet (along it's long axis).

In any case (1, 2 or 3), the magnets are still centered to one another during force measurements.
...............................................
DIRECTION OF APPROACH

I have a working  hypothesis (for the time being).  understanding NEAR right angle interactions
in the electric and  magnetic fields are the key to O.U..
...............................................
THE NEXT VIDEO.

Why NEAR right angle.

Offline lumen

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2016, 09:55:11 PM »
Consider this:
I have a 1 pound weight hanging on a spring.
I then place a lever under this weight with a fulcrum in the center of the lever.
I place another 1 pound weight on the far end of the lever and raise the weight on the spring.

Shifting the fulcrum, I find I can raise the weight on spring two times higher than the one on the lever moves.
With further testing I find the optimal position of the fulcrum and find I can raise the weight over 3 times higher at it's best point.

What I'm actually testing are simply the dynamics of the spring and there is no OU.


Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2016, 08:06:09 AM »
@lumen

Yes agreement

You are simply adding the energy (the weight lifted) which you stored
in the spring, when the weight was first lowered onto the spring. 

There is no net gain.  The work you did by lifting the weight (energy stored),
and then the work done by gravity to compress the spring (energy transferred)
are equal (before friction loss).  Applying leverage to the actions does not change
 this fact.

And similarly, THERE IS NO NET GAIN in either energy, or the work done
in the actions that occur in the video.

See my post, (which I think you missed?).  Just read the last few preceding
posts (yours and mine).

All is well, I believe you and I, are both interpreting the events in the video correctly.

                                   floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2016, 08:17:42 AM »
@ lumen

QUOTE FROM FLOOR

" But, by definition...... no net work is done.....

unless the two magnets can be returned to their original or starting positions ....
with out doing the same amount of work as is done by the difference in work
between these 2 other actions, ie.  158 grams lifted by 22 degrees (in) : 168 grams lifted
by 43 degrees (out).

As seemingly amazing as the actions are, the video is just an interesting and dramatic demo.

But then those actions are not... precisely... the interactions that need measuring"
                                                                                                                                 END OF QUOTE

I think you and I, have both correctly understanding the interactions in the video.

That was my goal up to this point.  I'm glad to see that we are both still on the same page.

Awsome!

                                           floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2016, 08:38:31 AM »
The presentation is not yet complete.

At this point the presentation has not demonstrated OU.
              next is
It's all about nipping a little bit off both ends of the
rotational (out put) movement and how this effects
the return / reset strokes

It allows the resets to the starting position to cost
very little work or energy input.

                      floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2016, 09:42:26 AM »
Both videos are open to the public now.

The link to the first video is

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4p1ome_magnet-force-test_tech

The link to the second video is

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4phd00_newtd2_tech

                           floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2016, 05:12:54 PM »
@ lumen

Basically the videos were done just to give people an opportunity to
look under the hood of the TD and kick the tires a little bit.

I hope the videos were useful / gave you a better feel for
the TD interactions, and what changes give rise to what changes. 

I did some drawings / analysis using your spring analogy to the
TD magnet interactions.

Also some explanations of close up ceramic magnet interactions.

see the PNG files below.

?? Have you data on neo magnets in close proximity and domain flipping ??

                floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2016, 05:22:55 PM »
The files below are some explanation of domain flipping in magnets,
and at the beginning of the twist drive's slideing(SL) return / reset stroke.