Author Topic: Captret - Capacitor and Electret (Read 322424 times)

Groundloop · « **Reply #165 on:** November 17, 2010, 05:18:28 AM »

@Sprocket,

>>They all at most increase to 20-30mV

And that is the point, they ALL self charge. The next test is to try to get rid
of the 20mV. How many times do you need to short out the capacitor to get
it to zero volt. One time? Ten times? Hundreds of times? Is it possible
at all to get to zero volt? So after N times of discharge into a load, you capacitor
still wants to climb to 20mV. Every time you discharge you get Volt times current (V*I).

What I want to find out with my tests is how BIG that number "N" is.

Groundloop.

Sprocket · « **Reply #166 on:** November 17, 2010, 04:35:29 PM »

@Groundloop - Yes I don't deny there seems to be a voltage increase across all of them, but I'm disappointed that it so small an increase - particularly as my first 'confirmation' was with a capacitor that produces 10-30 times more voltage! I actually got another identical one that seems to produce the same effect - both came from the same computer power-supply - but complicated by the fact that I can't short out the terminals as one of them broke off...

I also now see why your schematic uses so many capacitors!

Regarding the shorting, I must have shorted it 50 or so times and didn't notice any decrease in rate of voltage increase - but that was with the 'odd' capacitor...

PS - The problem I have with this and charging batteries is that it takes substantial current for this, whereas this seems to be all volts, no current. Much better stick a solar cell on you batteries, that definitely works...

gravityblock · « **Reply #167 on:** November 17, 2010, 05:08:40 PM »

I found the below quote on Keelynet.com while researching electrets for another project from an article titled, Electrets for Power Q&A, http://keelynet.com/electret.htm

Quote from: Electrets for Power

I can take a simple circuit that charges 2 capacitors in parallel from a dead battery and then connect the capacitors in series and discharges them back into the battery. Although no new energy is put into the battery some of the batteries potential chemical energy in the battery is converted and the battery will appear to be fully charged. The charging pulses from our controller (or the spark gap-coil) is closer to the double capacitor circuit than it is to a normal battery charger (DC).

Likewise, the captret is more than likely closer to the double capacitor circuit than it is to a normal battery charger. I hope this is not the case. Lasersaber video clearly shows the capacitor/captret needs to be fed pulses of energy from a battery in order to keep the LED continuously lit. If the captret was producing more out than in, then the capacitor wouldn't need pulses of external energy from a battery and the captret would be self-sufficient. IMO, the captret is not self-sufficient at this stage, thus it's not OU, and any claims of such is misleading.

The captret needs to be researched though. I posted information earlier about negative impedance and it appears to have been ignored. It would be interesting to know how the captret would perform with some of the circuits contained in the negative impedance article. The information on negative impedance wasn't to try and explain the effect. The information was posted to improve and take the captret forward and into a new direction in hopes of making it self-sufficient. Let's not limit our thinking to only lighting LED's, but instead try to think much bigger.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result.

GB

e2matrix · « **Reply #168 on:** November 17, 2010, 06:16:56 PM »

Quote from: Groundloop on November 17, 2010, 05:18:28 AM

@Sprocket,

>>They all at most increase to 20-30mV

And that is the point, they ALL self charge. The next test is to try to get rid
of the 20mV. How many times do you need to short out the capacitor to get
it to zero volt. One time? Ten times? Hundreds of times? Is it possible
at all to get to zero volt? So after N times of discharge into a load, you capacitor
still wants to climb to 20mV. Every time you discharge you get Volt times current (V*I).

What I want to find out with my tests is how BIG that number "N" is.

Groundloop.

That is fascinating how fast it recharges on a 330uf cap I've got with both leads shorted (between the 2 leads and the case). It runs up around 150 mv. However using a Fluke 87 on the microamp range which goes out to 1/10 of a microamp I'm seeing 0.0 microamps. Unfortunately even 200 volts x 0.0 microamps is going to still be about zero power and I suspect not very useful unless there is a unique way to extract power? Maybe a setup like you are proposing with a 1000 caps may show something different if it can be shown to charge a battery to useful power that can be repeatedly used or if it can run a joule thief. Best of luck in your tests.

Groundloop · « **Reply #169 on:** November 17, 2010, 07:56:26 PM »

@Sprocket,

If there is volt and you short that volt into a load then there is current.
(This current may be very small but it is still current.)
You are correct when you say that it takes substantial current to charge a battery.
But that is not the point. The point is that if I can light ONE led directly (or via
a JT) and the light NEVER goes out, then the capacitor self charge effect is a free
energy device.

@e2matrix,

You need to connect a high Ohm resistor across you wires to measure the constant
current flow out of a self charging capacitor. Try a 10 Mega Ohm. Then calculate
the current flowing. If there was no current then how is it possible to blink a LED
from the effect.

Groundloop.

greenv · « **Reply #170 on:** November 28, 2010, 07:21:59 PM »

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/the-charge-of-the-ultra-capacitors/1

Magnethos · « **Reply #171 on:** December 03, 2010, 12:10:46 AM »

Quote from: Groundloop on November 17, 2010, 07:56:26 PM

@Sprocket,

If there is volt and you short that volt into a load then there is current.
(This current may be very small but it is still current.)
You are correct when you say that it takes substantial current to charge a battery.
But that is not the point. The point is that if I can light ONE led directly (or via
a JT) and the light NEVER goes out, then the capacitor self charge effect is a free
energy device.

@e2matrix,

You need to connect a high Ohm resistor across you wires to measure the constant
current flow out of a self charging capacitor. Try a 10 Mega Ohm. Then calculate
the current flowing. If there was no current then how is it possible to blink a LEDfrom the effect.[/]
Groundloop.

That thing is called Radiant Energy. As you may know, radiant energy is a wattless manifestation of electrical energy. It's also called "displacement current" and that kind of energy doesn't involves electron flow. Just pure voltage. And that pure voltage can perform work but it cannot charge a battery.

Tito L. Oracion · « **Reply #172 on:** December 03, 2010, 08:49:48 AM »

Quote from: Magnethos on December 03, 2010, 12:10:46 AM

That thing is called Radiant Energy. As you may know, radiant energy is a wattless manifestation of electrical energy. It's also called "displacement current" and that kind of energy doesn't involves electron flow. Just pure voltage. And that pure voltage can perform work but it cannot charge a battery.

Hi there!

ELECTRON has the nature effect of repel and attraction.

A radiant energy is a balance thing, then therefore anything that is moving is seeking for balance because of the effect of attraction acting as a vacuum, and as it flows then it performs energy, and therefore as the facts says that we should make a strong disturbance or make a strong rung for us to disturb the radiant energy so that we can use it and that is AC of tesla.

i think in order for a lamp to produce light, then there should be an electron flow, cause its the flow of electron that makes friction in the conductor for it to glow ok! 'Collision'

It is considered wattless because our meter cannot anymore measure or reach that energy, but still it is a combination of current and voltage, and sometimes because of very very high voltage, the led or lamp lights without ground because the high voltage goes back and forth very fast and make use of the electron of the conductor from start to end of the light bulb's tail to move very very little and that produce lights.

Yes! it cannot charge a battery because it has only very little current.
To charge a battery we have to induce electron in the battery and pulling some protons, so therefore as electrons grows in numbers then attraction, voltage, currents also grows, so therefore protons are being suck from the other side and the source is empty space or wire connected to it just to balance the sucking effect of the growing electrons. and that makes an unbalance source of energy and really really want to seek balance.

Sorry sir it is not my intention to block you but that is what i understand.

noicaro L. Otits reporting

Magnethos · « **Reply #173 on:** December 03, 2010, 09:13:57 PM »

Don't worry about blocking me, we're just only discussing some interesting things. I will explain my opinion also.

After reading some different things about this field, I cannot fully understand what an electron is. Ok, I've read the classic books about physics and electronics but it's not a fully or enought detailed explanation that I can understand.
As you know, there is a thing called Radiant energy. And that radiant energy is only composed of current-free energy. That means, it only flows the electric field (the magnetic field is hypothetically absent).
So, E = M x CÂ² is not correct for the radiant part, since M = 0 (there is no amperage flow).
Radiant energy is expressed as E = âˆ†T x CÂ², where T means Time. Radiant flow is a flow of SUB-electronic (smaller than electron) electric particles.

I think the electron is a vortex flow. Radiant energy flow is not measurable with classic meters, but it's claimed that there are some special meters that are capable of measuring it.

Attraction means vortexes rotating in the same direction. Repulsion is a phenomenon that involves that one vortex is rotating in the opositte direction of the other.

hartiberlin · « **Reply #174 on:** December 13, 2010, 01:58:44 AM »

Quote from: Groundloop on November 17, 2010, 05:18:28 AM

@Sprocket,

>>They all at most increase to 20-30mV

And that is the point, they ALL self charge. The next test is to try to get rid
of the 20mV. How many times do you need to short out the capacitor to get
it to zero volt. One time? Ten times? Hundreds of times? Is it possible
at all to get to zero volt? So after N times of discharge into a load, you capacitor
still wants to climb to 20mV. Every time you discharge you get Volt times current (V*I).

What I want to find out with my tests is how BIG that number "N" is.

Groundloop.

Hi Groundloop,
I just also tested it with a 2700 uF 35 Volt electrolytic cap.
The cap charges up to around 20 to 50 millivolts, depending
on if I touch it or not.
Then when shorted only very quickly, it recharges fast.
But when you short it out for longer time, it need also much longer to recharge again.
So the trick is to extract only short portion of it , so it can recover faster.

Also in my case only the case and the negative pole of the capacitor are the real
contacts that have the effect.

I just also made another test
like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIHaXey1DQ

I tested this just with my 2700 uF 35 Volts electrolytic cap with my 3 Watts 12 Volts LED lamp.
I fed this from a 10 Volts DC Nokia mobile Phone charger. The Captret drops the voltage from 10 Volts to around 8 Volts at the LED and the LED lamp is much darker then. You can also connect the plus of the power supply also directly to the plus of the LED lamp and not connect it to the cap plus pole->same effect.
Then the cap works as an additional load resistor..

BUT: the Wattmeter went this way from 3Watts input and cos phi 0.48 to
0 Watts and cos phi=1 !!!
So I donÂ´t draw any power from the grid and still get light output....

But the light output is much lower this way.
I will try it also with a 47 uF cap as Ibpointless2 did and report back..
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

ibpointless2 · « **Reply #175 on:** December 13, 2010, 03:14:21 AM »

Quote from: hartiberlin on December 13, 2010, 01:58:44 AM

Hi Groundloop,
I just also tested it with a 2700 uF 35 Volt electrolytic cap.
The cap charges up to around 20 to 50 millivolts, depending
on if I touch it or not.
Then when shorted only very quickly, it recharges fast.
But when you short it out for longer time, it need also much longer to recharge again.
So the trick is to extract only short portion of it , so it can recover faster.

Also in my case only the case and the negative pole of the capacitor are the real
contacts that have the effect.

I just also made another test
like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIHaXey1DQ

I tested this just with my 2700 uF 35 Volts electrolytic cap with my 3 Watts 12 Volts LED lamp.
I fed this from a 10 Volts DC Nokia mobile Phone charger. The Captret drops the voltage from 10 Volts to around 8 Volts at the LED and the LED lamp is much darker then. You can also connect the plus of the power supply also directly to the plus of the LED lamp and not connect it to the cap plus pole->same effect.
Then the cap works as an additional load resistor..

BUT: the Wattmeter went this way from 3Watts input and cos phi 0.48 to
0 Watts and cos phi=1 !!!
So I donÂ´t draw any power from the grid and still get light output....

But the light output is much lower this way.
I will try it also with a 47 uF cap as Ibpointless2 did and report back..
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi,

Yes i know about the self charging effect, thats why i call it the captret (cap meaning capacitor and tret meaning electret). I also made a video to show this effect of quick pulses to see if i could drain the captret. i was able to flash the LED for a long time, so long that i got tired of it. heres the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqC8nAjoAVc

My captret hooked up to a 1.5 watt 120 volt LED bulb can run on 0.00 watts after 15 minutes of running. Using a 1uF 400 volt capacitor. Also whats neat is when you disconnect the power the captret will continue to light the LEDs for a couple seconds longer. Considering its only a 1uF capacitor thats amazing!

And its common that you can do your setup of using the case and the negative because every capacitors different. But i do find it funny because i use to think the case was grounded to the negative but my ideas have change and the case is merely another lead just like the + and -. The captret makes a single capacitor into 3 capacitors. + and -, + and case, - and case, all can have there own voltages on them. All are affected by each other in a good way and a bad way. Shorting the + and case will drain the + and the - but it will reach a voltage and start to climb back up. As to why it self charges? could be how its related to the electret?

Those short sharp pulse that you talk about are very important. Acutely short sharp high voltage pulses are the best. Thats why it works so well with the joule thief and pulse motors. My goal is to get a captret to run a pulse motor, because i know how to even further the efficiency of the captret but a pulse motor is needed.

hartiberlin · « **Reply #176 on:** December 13, 2010, 03:38:11 AM »

@ibpointless2
Yes, I just hooked up 2 x 2700 uF 35 Volts caps in parallel and the light
now is a bit brighter, but the digital Wattmeter still displays 0 Watts and 0 amps and Cos Phi= 1.

So with still bigger caps, so more uF in parallel the light would probably still be brighter.

I wonder if I am somehow destroying the electrolytic caps ?
Maybe I am galvanically destroying the electrolyte solution inside ?
But the caps donÂ´t get hot at all... they are still cold..

The caps just are connected only as a preload resistor this way in series with the LED lamp.
From their case to the 2 shorted pins of the cap, there is a positive voltage of 2.12 Volts at this 2 x 2700uf=5400 uF parallel cap.

So does this voltage destroy the electrolytic solution internally ?

I just measured the current at the lamp, it is only 3.2 milliAmps and the Voltage at the lamp is 8.12 Volts DC.

So the input power into the lamp is only about 26 MilliWatts now on the lamp..

So this is probably why the digital Wattmeter does not display any input power.
It is just below its error range...

Best regards, Stefan.

Groundloop · « **Reply #177 on:** December 14, 2010, 12:18:52 AM »

@All,

I finally got around and soldered my first (of 10) CapTret boards.
The board has 100 pcs. 220uF 35V electrolytic capacitors that
has both + and - shorted out as one connection, and a new wire
added to the aluminum can with conductive glue and solder
as the second connection. Then all the modified capacitors are
connect in series.

The series string of capacitors self charge up to approx. 1,8 Volt.
When I load the board with my volt meter then the voltage
drops fast to some millivolt. So the current capability is very low.

I will do some tests on this single board to see if I can tap some
useful energy out of the board before I continue solder the other
boards. It will take some time because it is a slow and boring
process to solder and modify all those capacitors.

Groundloop.

Mk1 · « **Reply #178 on:** December 14, 2010, 12:35:51 AM »

@all

First off thanks for all the nice work , everyone.

I was thinking since the power from the battery is not really leaving it , maybe a charged cap could replace the battery ? Sorry if irrelevant .

I will need to look into making my dual jt circuit work on it one captret at each end , maybe there is a way to bounce the voltage up faster .

Again my apologies for not having time to go trough everything .

hartiberlin · « **Reply #179 on:** December 15, 2010, 01:38:31 AM »

Hi Groundloop,
well done.

By the way, what kind of conductive glue are you using ?

Is this some kind of silver paint ?

Please post the brand name and how the conductive glue works.
Is there some graphite in it or is it silver based ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

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Author Topic: Captret - Capacitor and Electret (Read 322424 times)

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