author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg476866#msg476866 date=1457558131]



MileHigh

Brad's definition of resonance in a wine glass is "you hit it at the resonant frequency and it starts to resonate."  You might not have a problem with that in your bound condition but the real world and for any sane person with a reasonable technical background it's completely ridiculous.  They would find that "definition" laughable and better for Romper Room than a forum where people are supposed to be researching energy with oscilloscopes and mutimeters.

Your full of shit MH. That is not my definition of resonance in a wine glass at all.
Go and find the post where i defined resonance in a wine glass the way you said i have.

In all likelihood Brad will not lift a finger to try to educate himself.  Smoky2 also gave a jaw-dropping "explanation" for a resonating wine glass and if you are astute you saw how Brad has flat-out disagreed with him.  Magluvin is a mystery.

More BS from you MH.
Please also show where i disagreed with smoky's definition of a resonating wine glass--and dont get it mixed up with the !sound waves! traveling through a vacuum conversation<-- as you do your mix and match thing all the time,to suit your need's.

My advice to anyone that is curious about answering the two questions about the wine glass is to do some research and take a crack at answering them.  If nobody gets it the answers will be revealed later.  It's supposed to be a pop quiz and not an insane asylum.

!How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined!
This is your anal question MH,and it has been answered--many times.

I cant wait to see your answer,and i am going to refrain from blocking you for just this reason.
Im waiting for something wonderful--Like maybe-->
The resonant frequency of a wine glass is determined by the frictional quantity of the system as a whole

What determines the resonant frequency of a wine glass?
The resonant frequency of a wine glass is determined by the frictional quantity of the system as a whole

MHs theory of everything?--i really hope not
Not only has this been covered (which YOU probably missed,due to your skip post reading flaw-as the case with the ICE),but like your top speed of a car analogy,you once again missed something very important

But anyway,we shall see how you stack up with your answers to come.

Do you see Chet - this is a fun pop quiz that has people stymied.  Now people can take it at face value as a pop quiz and wait patiently for the answers if they don't get them, or they can stomp around like a bunch of near-crazy people pulling out their hair and spewing out tons of negativity.  All over two measly questions about a resonating wine glass?

Your own questions,that have yet no answers-apparently.
There is crazy here for sure MH,but it is dose not dwell in those you specify.
Take a closer look in the mirror.


Brad

I had thought about it and looked up science of bells. The first on the list was this on Yahoo search

http://www.thebelltower.com.au/downloads/Science_of_Bells.pdf

Cleanin up shop. Was a wreck. Cleaned of bench. Ready to go.

Mags

Weird. so far I havent found anything on a deep science of bells. Still looking. Is it a secret science? Silence the science?  lol

Mags

Brad:

Here is the first reference I could find that you made to an ICE.

Webby linked to a short article about using a air resonator to improve the air intake cycle.  The article had a diagram and a description and made sense.  What you say above is meaningless because you offer no details whatsoever.  Without details I took "timing" to mean the most common reference for timing, the spark plug timing, and there is resonance in that.

So with your absolutely abysmal communication skills of course you are going to get into trouble all the time because you can't convey information properly and consequently people can't understand you properly.  It's a serious serious problem that you have and you should do something about it.

Going back to the resonators for improving the air intake cycle, they aren't making use of resonance in a continuous cycle, they are more one-shot devices that are slaved to the timing of the pistons.

That is just a bunch of useless trash talk and everybody knows it's useless trash talk.  All that you do is hurt yourself when you carry on like that.

So why don't you just link to your preferred answers to the two questions or just answer them here in your own words and I will consider that your "final answer."  You have tried to answer three or four times so I don't know which is the one you want to stand by.  But if you are going to link then don't link to something with a bunch of Google copy/pastes, that is not a valid answer.

MileHigh

Once again, you just cant associate one example with another-can you MH.
How can you not see that both show an increase in system efficiency.
If you operate a system such as a JT type system in it's natural resonant frequency, you will increase the efficiency of that system.
This is much the same as having the correct timing in an ICE, where the correct timing will also increase the efficiency of that system.
Can you not understand that the switching timing of the transistor needs to be correct in order for that JT type circuit to run at it' natural resonant frequency.
Both systems need to have correct timing in order for both systems to operate at there peak efficiencies.

Man-talk about having to spoon feed.


Brad

for the first time in 25 pages, I am going to have to agree with MH here.
his perspective on the "resonance" of an ICE is perfectly valid.
Noone thus far, has shown an ICE in "resonance".

and while I DO feel that I answered his questions validly, concerning the Wine Glass,
I, Myself, was not the one he requested to do so,,,
and thus, the answers were in "my own words", not the own words of whom he requested the answer from.

synchronization is NOT resonance, although it "can be", it is not necessarily so.
things can synchronize, with respect to ratios, and a division there-of.
But this is not always resonance.
In fact, in the case of the two-stroke engine, which resonates at 1/2 wavelength of the engine.....
ONLY the odd harmonics are "resonant".
which discludes 50% of all synchronous frequencies by default.

If you do not understand this, go back a page or two and read what I posted about the Joule Thief, and ?Wine glass.
two-stroke engine also falls into this same category.
Which I am sure, is the reason it was suggested instead of the more common 4 or 6 cylinder engine.

Brad:

A Joule Thief and an ICE can both be looked upon as synchronous machines and there is no resonant frequency associated with them.  If you optimize a standard Joule Thief or an ICE to get maximum efficiency that is not resonance.  I acknowledge a small subsystem on an ICE can use resonant techniques to improve performance, but the entire ICE itself is a synchronous machine, and not a resonant machine.  You are going to have to find a new type of Joule Thief if you want it to truly have a resonant frequency.  Then you will have to demonstrate the resonance itself, and that ties into the reason I brought up the resonating wine glass.

I am not going to make any comment at all about the resonating wine glass.  The point is to give people the opportunity to answer the questions themselves if they choose to.  Or if they can't answer the questions and they have to do their own research, the hope is that they have a "Eureka!" moment and it all comes clear to them and they answer both questions successfully.  Then they can apply that knowledge to their research.  Of course anybody is free to answer the questions.

I will immediately acknowledge anybody that answers the questions successfully and then I will give the answers the way I would word them myself.

With respect to Johan and Chet and the "resonating" two-stroke motorcycle engine, I have asked for details several times and have gotten no response at all to my follow-up questions asking for some substance.  I would not surprised if I never get a response.  If that's the case, then we all know we see that on threads all the time.  It's a pain in the ass because it means that people are BSing each other and just stroking each other.  They are saying stuff and making claims without anything to back it up and chances are they don't even know what they are talking about.  It's a "brain copy/paste."  That's the reason I asked the questions about the wine glass.  With the wine glass there is no "brain copy/paste" or faking it or spoon feeding - you really have to show your "stuff" and back it up with the real thing.  Now if Johan and Chet do come back and provide the requested details, that will be a different thing entirely.  But right now all that I am sensing is a "drive by" posting.

MileHigh

for those of you who wish to truly understand "resonance":
a 4-cylinder engine represents the 1/4 wavelength, like 1/2 of the JT circuit. (mismatched impedance)
1/4 is the 3rd resonant freq of the 1/2, as is the 1/2 to its' 6th resonant freq of the ferrite.

Thus, it is easier to get a 4-banger to "resonate", than it is a two-stroke engine.
I would explain this further, but it is quite frankly, irrelevant.
For a two-stroke ICE to become "resonant", we have to redesign the entire system to do so.
It is not just some random RPM that the engine achieves.
the problem is much more complicated than that.

Well i hope your excluding me from the statement about the two stroke motor itself being resonant,as i have only been referring to resonant systems that exist within the two stroke engine as a whole to increase both performance and efficiency by way of acoustical resonance.

What is resonance in scientific terms.
Quote:In physics, resonance is a phenomenon that occurs when a vibrating system or external force drives another system to oscillate with greater amplitude at a specific preferential frequency.
Apparently this dose not fit in with MHs terms and conditions for resonance--but too bad.

Patented Resonant systems within a two stroke engine(fully explained) that improve both efficiency and power output--as defined by the terms of physics,and also explained by myself some pages back.

http://www.google.com.au/patents/US3254484
ACOUSTICAL RESONANCE APPARATUS FOR IN- CREASING THE POWER OUTPUT F AN INTER- NAL COMBUSTIGN ENGINE John Stephen Kapper, Henry Whitfield House, Guilford, Conn. Filed Jan. 23, 1964, Ser. No. 339,625 7 Claims. (Cl. 60-32) My invention relates to acoustical apparatus for increasing the horsepower output and efficiency of naturally aspirated internal' combustion engines by manipulating acoustical effects normally occurring in the exhaust and intake gas columns of such engines. More specifically, the invention relates to means for manipulating sound pressure waves in relation to the intake and exhaust systems of naturally aspirated internal combustion engines, and to means for manually or automatically adjusting the effective acoustical length of the exhaust and intake systems of an engine while the engine is operating and to the addition of resonator and/ or sound generators to such exhaust and intake systems in order to: (l) utilize sound pressure waves to assist cylinder charging and cylinder scavenging; (2) achieve resonance of the gas columns in the intake and exhaust systems at all engine speeds and thus increase the amplitude of the sound pressure waves and their resultant effect on cylinder charging and cylinder scavenging; and (3) increase the amplitude of the sound pressure waves .in the exhaust and intake systems still further by means of secondary resonators and/or sound generators.

There are a list of such patents that refer to much the same resonant state's,and as can be clearly seen,also comply with the meaning of resonance within the spectrum of physics.


Brad

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg476897#msg476897 date=1457596799]


 

MileHigh

A Joule Thief and an ICE can both be looked upon as synchronous machines and there is no resonant frequency associated with them.  If you optimize a standard Joule Thief or an ICE to get maximum efficiency that is not resonance.  I acknowledge a small subsystem on an ICE can use resonant techniques to improve performance, but the entire ICE itself is a synchronous machine, and not a resonant machine.

I never once claimed that the ICE it self was in resonance. What i said that there were various resonant systems that exist within an ICE that improve both performance and efficiency.
Is this not what the whole !resonance! ordeal is about?--showing how resonance can increase efficiency. You stated that there was no resonance at all associated with an ICE,and i provided the resonant systems that do indeed reside within a two stroke ICE.

You are going to have to find a new type of Joule Thief if you want it to truly have a resonant frequency.  Then you will have to demonstrate the resonance itself, and that ties into the reason I brought up the resonating wine glass.

As i have stated very clearly all along,i am not bound by your one particular JT circuit MH. The JT is an effect provided by a circuit--it is not a single circuit.

I am not going to make any comment at all about the resonating wine glass.  The point is to give people the opportunity to answer the questions themselves if they choose to.  Or if they can't answer the questions and they have to do their own research, the hope is that they have a "Eureka!" moment and it all comes clear to them and they answer both questions successfully.  Then they can apply that knowledge to their research.  Of course anybody is free to answer the questions.

And who is to decide that the question has been answered correctly MH?--you?
So far,your track record and knowledge is far to low to be making any such judgement on who is correct ,and who is not.

I will immediately acknowledge anybody that answers the questions successfully and then I will give the answers the way I would word them myself.

And how is it that !your! wording will be the !holy bible!-the be all and end all of the correct answers to your questions.

With respect to Johan and Chet and the "resonating" two-stroke motorcycle engine, I have asked for details several times and have gotten no response at all to my follow-up questions asking for some substance.  I would not surprised if I never get a response.  If that's the case, then we all know we see that on threads all the time.

MH
I have provided such information some pages back in this thread. I provided a description in my own word's,and a more in/depth description in the links i provided,on one of the existing resonant systems in a two stroke ICE.

It's a pain in the ass because it means that people are BSing each other and just stroking each other.  They are saying stuff and making claims without anything to back it up and chances are they don't even know what they are talking about.

Such as those that cannot provide the needed information regarding determining a vehicles top speed. Also the fact that you still do not know what you missed, shows that you are not as smart as you thought you were.

Why is it that i picked up on your needed missing information as soon as i read your post about determining the top speed of a car,but as yet you do not know what it is?. How is it then that you think you have a better understanding about your own questions than those that see mistake after mistake from you?.

No resonance associated with an ICE,where that resonance is as per physics specifications >wrong
Your cool joule circuit dose !not! operate due to the miller effect/ capacitance-->wrong
This is all you need to determine the top speed of a car-->wrong.

After all these mistake's,you still deem your self worthy of determining !what! determines the resonant frequency in a wine glass,and !what! is resonance.

 

It's a "brain copy/paste."  That's the reason I asked the questions about the wine glass.  With the wine glass there is no "brain copy/paste" or faking it or spoon feeding - you really have to show your "stuff" and back it up with the real thing.  Now if Johan and Chet do come back and provide the requested details, that will be a different thing entirely.  But right now all that I am sensing is a "drive by" posting.

It will make no difference what they post MH,as you will just skip on past it(as you did with mine-on a number of occasions now),and say they have posted nothing at all. This is what you do all the time MH,and it started way back before the wine glass saga,and ICE saga.


Brad