Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system ! (Read 2231894 times)

noonespecial · « **Reply #2505 on:** January 20, 2015, 11:41:03 PM »

Quote from: ltseung888 on January 20, 2015, 07:19:08 AM

Dear noonespecial,

You have done much great work on the gravity wheel devices. Your help will greatly add to the knowledge and the implementation. Some questions:

1. Have you determined that one or more of your devices produce more Output Energy than Input? Or are there strong grounds to believe so?

None that have demonstrated so-called 'over-unity'. I have however determined that I can achieve 'over-efficiency'.

Quote

2. Have you ever considered "Lead-out" energy as an explanation? Have you checked on the mathematics of the horizontally pulled pendulum?

I admit that I haven't looked at the math presented but will do so.

Quote

3. Have you tried to put an Unbalanced Wheel on the same axle of a "normal motor" and check the increase in torque? If so, have you fed that to the Input of another more powerful "normal motor/generator"?

No I haven't but Prof. Kanarev's modification of Linevitch's device has demonstrated this successfully.

One thing you should keep in mind which Prof. Kanarev points out is that you cannot achieve over-efficiency without modulating the transmission of energy from prime mover to output generation. He used electronically controlled clutches to achieve some impressive results.

Best regards,
Charlie

ltseung888 · « **Reply #2506 on:** January 21, 2015, 01:05:22 AM »

Quote from: noonespecial on January 20, 2015, 11:41:03 PM

None that have demonstrated so-called 'over-unity'. I have however determined that I can achieve 'over-efficiency'.

I admit that I haven't looked at the math presented but will do so.

No I haven't but Prof. Kanarev's modification of Linevitch's device has demonstrated this successfully.

One thing you should keep in mind which Prof. Kanarev points out is that you cannot achieve over-efficiency without modulating the transmission of energy from prime mover to output generation. He used electronically controlled clutches to achieve some impressive results.

Best regards,
Charlie

Dear Charlie,

Thank you for your speedy response. The Tong Wheel already got funding and the Ting Wheel is likely to get funding in Hong Kong also. Their key points are:

1. Both demonstrated that the Output Power is greater than Input Power.
2. Both used Unbalanced Wheel.
3. The energy required to rotate an Unbalanced Wheel is approximately the same as rotating a Balanced Wheel. However, the Unbalanced Wheel can bring-in large amounts of gravitational energy.
4. In the Ting Wheel, the large amount of gravitational energy is used to drive another commercially available generator B via gear/belt.
5. The electricity from the generator B is sufficient to recharge the 12V battery, drive a fan, a refrigerator and some light bulbs.
6. The 12V battery was used to drive a pulse wheel. The exact construction of the Pulse wheel is the commercial secret. It is likely that electromagnetic energy is brought-in inside this wheel...
7. The Tong Wheel is similar except that the Unbalanced Wheel effect is achieved in the Pulse Wheel. Both hope to generate 5KW for the average home.

It appears that the Unbalanced Wheel is the key. It does not take much energy to rotate it. However, it can bring-in significant amount of gravitational energy. I shall attempt to do the mahematics to determine how much can be brought-in per revolution later...

Another hidden trump is the "Coil-magnet" lead-out energy entity. That may also be the secret of the 225 HP Pulse Motor.

There is no violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy in a Lead-out Energy Device...

Morality Point:

Power of the Unbalanced Wheel???

norman6538 · « **Reply #2507 on:** January 21, 2015, 04:50:13 PM »

This PDF p. 7 has a great drawing for testing.
http://overunity.com/1763/12-times-more-output-than-input-dual-mechanical-oscillation-system/msg420469/#msg420469
chan wheel.pdf msg 2268 pdf - great chart with measurement formulas but
the distance lifted must be considered for work in but the wheel
weight only has to be lifted from about 10 to noon. best rotate wheel
on the right clockwise..... cause it has a greater force.

so how far does .1 oz have to be lifted? abt 1/4 the wheel diameter about 10 oclock
to noon because a pendulum will drop and continue on its own till about 10 oclock.

so I dropped .1 oz from 1 oclock on a 10 inch dia wheel lifting
.2 oz weight about 3+ inches. so that means that .1 oz must be rotated
and "work expended lifted" from 10 to noon which is 1/4 the 10 inch diameter
ie. 2.5 inches so we have .5 inches of extra work. ie 120% OU.

But as I did - do we have to take out the .1 dropped weight from the
.2 lifted weight because they balance out on the arm?
Or can we leave that in and get even more OU?
If we leave that in we get .25 oz inches of work in and .6 oz inches of work out.
which is 240% OU.

Folks this is a very easy test to do. I used the plywood from clementine boxes
to make a wheel and the stand for this test in less than 1 hour.

Norman

Paul-R · « **Reply #2508 on:** January 21, 2015, 06:39:09 PM »

I don't really follow you, Norman. I'll have another look later.

In the meanwhile, could we not arrange a ratchet so that when the weight is raised, it does not fall again.

We would need to take into account that this will alter the geometry of the system, of course.

TinselKoala · « **Reply #2509 on:** January 21, 2015, 07:48:21 PM »

Quote from: Paul-R on January 21, 2015, 06:39:09 PM

I don't really follow you, Norman. I'll have another look later.

In the meanwhile, could we not arrange a ratchet so that when the weight is raised, it does not fall again.

We would need to take into account that this will alter the geometry of the system, of course.

You can use "one-way" bearings that are readily obtained from your local hobby shop that sells RC helicopter parts, with matching precision shaft inserts. This will not change the geometry of the system.
http://www.aligntrexstore.com/One-Way-Bearing-New-HS1229-for-T-Rex-450_p_76.html
http://www.helipal.com/hz026-one-way-bearing-shaft.html
Experimenters doing these tests should review some basic engineering dynamics first, so that they do the calculations _correctly_.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/torq2.html

norman6538 · « **Reply #2510 on:** January 21, 2015, 08:45:05 PM »

Quote from: Paul-R on January 21, 2015, 06:39:09 PM

I don't really follow you, Norman. I'll have another look later.

In the meanwhile, could we not arrange a ratchet so that when the weight is raised, it does not fall again.

We would need to take into account that this will alter the geometry of the system, of course.

Paul, that is what I would do next and did try once awhile back but it failed then. I'm more
hopeful now. The trick is not to waste too much on the way down so it will require the
opposite of a ratchet up. You don't want to waste power on the whole turn of the wheel.
So a ratchet that pulls the wheel from 10 oclock till noon and then lets the wheel/pendulum
freewheel till it goes around to 10 oclock again when it needs a boost.
I'm thinking about how to do that cause its snowing and I'm inside till it stops.

Norman

Paul-R · « **Reply #2511 on:** January 22, 2015, 03:02:54 PM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on January 21, 2015, 07:48:21 PM

You can use "one-way" bearings that are readily obtained from your local hobby shop that sells RC helicopter parts

Its good to see you throwing in your sixpennyworth, TK. Like a tablespoon of rum in the fruit salad.

Good to know about the bearing. Is there such a thing as a "one-way" shaft - for linear movement?

ltseung888 · « **Reply #2512 on:** January 23, 2015, 02:22:47 PM »

The presentation on Jan 22, 2015.

norman6538 · « **Reply #2513 on:** January 23, 2015, 03:01:35 PM »

My simple experiments demonstrated 2 principle discoveries.
1. with the lifted weight on the left and the rotating unbalanced wheel on the right
a clockwise rotation will lift more weight on the left.
2. with the same arrangement above a weight on a string falling 1 inch will turn
the wheel further when started at noon than at 10 oclock. And if that weight
is sufficient it will rotate the wheel 2 or 3 times.

I used the crude setup in this photo. I don't build complex expensive stuff till I can
see the basic principle in simple construction. Here the material is cheap and rapid prototype.
For an axle I prefer a bicycle wheel spoke - strong and straight. And being small it has
little friction. I also prefer weights/washers for measureing work instead of meters that
can be off calibration.

The prop on the left holds the wheel until I get the drop distance of the 3 washers
on the right adjusted to the height I want to test. The stop below the 3 washers on the right
limit the distance dropped and thus the work in. The seesaw in the back was used
to see principle 1 above.

So I encourage you go get in the game and see some of this for yourself.

Next I will do the seesaw and see what the dropping weight can lift and then
I will know if there is OU.

Norman

Paul-R · « **Reply #2514 on:** January 23, 2015, 03:07:47 PM »

The problem is to realise the energy inherent in the raising of the weight; I think we need to get back to the simplicity of the water pump
http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm

ARMCORTEX · « **Reply #2515 on:** January 23, 2015, 03:16:18 PM »

I have already layed out all the best concepts and concrete explanations for mechanical devices.

Wich far surpasses all that Ltseung has shown and goes beyond milkovic.

on my yt , skyrinninjamod

I, with Charlie, are certified pros and our word is final.

There is also the universal engine, wich could be discussed.

But I havent seen anythingt from those guys yet.

norman6538 · « **Reply #2516 on:** January 23, 2015, 03:27:18 PM »

The hand pump needs to be properly balanced to the weight of the
water column and the pump rod mechanism and the handle so that
the person is only lifting one cycle of water a few inches. That is why
the handle is long and often weighted on the end. But remember that
a given pump is not tuned to the various well depths.
So you can see then that if tuned the work done is merely lets say
lifting half a gallon of water maybe 6 inches which is quite easy.

Then if you add the Milkovic factor its even less. But if its really
9:1 then it should run by itself. I have not seen that yet. Have you?

Norman

norman6538 · « **Reply #2517 on:** January 23, 2015, 03:49:15 PM »

OK folks, here's my challenge. If the Chan wheel is OU then they can be cascaded
together such that a small one is cascaded to larger and larger ones such that
a small child can turn a wheel similar to a tricycle wheel and in turn lift up his
parent at the other end of the cascaded devices.

And then build these in public places such that the whole country can see OU right in front of their faces.
Wouldn't that be quite a movement. Far greater than a football game or a Rube Goldberg entertaining contraption.

But the nasayers say it can't be done...Lets see guys. Lets just do it.

Norman

Paul-R · « **Reply #2518 on:** January 23, 2015, 05:04:32 PM »

Quote from: norman6538 on January 23, 2015, 03:27:18 PM

... That is why the handle is long and often weighted on the end...

You must be thinking of the traditional design water pump. This model has no handle; only a pendulum which we keep swinging.

An electromagnet giving a pulse at the right time will keep the pendulum swinging, and give us "Energy in".

The rate of flow of water times the final overall height gain will give the "Energy out".

(keeping the units consistent and for a set amount of time).

ltseung888 · « **Reply #2519 on:** January 23, 2015, 08:19:11 PM »

The attached diagram shows the experiment to be done by us in the next few weeks.

The same or similar experiment was done by other groups. The one I am aware of was - using cylinders instead of wheels. A cylinder can be treated as multiple wheels placed together. (The Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.)

Whether the simple Unbalanced Wheel can lead-out gravitational energy can be demonstrated should not be too difficult. From the experience in tuning the other Pulse Wheels, I believe we need to hunt for "resonance" conditions. The efficiency of the set up dramatically increases at certain rotational speeds. (pushing the pendulum at the right time.)

Are any of you in a position to do such an experiment?
How do you measure the various entities: Input Power, Output Power Torque, rotational speed etc?

Morality Point:
The Chan Wheel is easy to construct but the implications are...

Any motor A can drive a more powerful Generator B using the lead-out gravitational energy. B can then power Motor A and we have a self loop... QEG can be turned to WITTS. Do we need resonance conditions???

Morality Point:

Old Tseung cannot even tighten a screw properly. Asking him to do experiments is like asking a one legged man to win the Olympics. But the one legged man can cheer and even advise the Olympic winners...

News:

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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system ! (Read 2231894 times)

noonespecial

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ltseung888

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norman6538

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Paul-R

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TinselKoala

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Paul-R

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ltseung888

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Paul-R

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ARMCORTEX

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ltseung888

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