author=MileHigh link=topic=16589.msg485787#msg485787 date=1465104924]
 
Your definition of an ideal torque,was poor at best,and reflects against your very limited mechanical abilities. There dose not have to be any angular momentum in order for there to be a torque applied to an object or mass.

As i said before,torque dose not only apply to things in motion.
You failed at giving an accurate example of an ideal torque.

No, in fact my definition of an ideal torque was 100% correct and yours was wrong.  You can't say that my mechanical abilities are "very limited," that's just nonsensical spinning and you have nothing to backup that false claim.

More importantly, I never said that there had to be angular momentum for there to be torque applied to an object.  You are falsely trying to put words into my mouth.

Likewise, I never stated that torque only applies to things in motion.  One more time, you are falsely trying to put words into my mouth.

Again, my example for an ideal torque was 100% accurate.

An LC circuit will not resonate without an external force acting upon it--this is fact.

That is complete and utter nonsense.  If you connect a charged capacitor to an inductor the LC circuit will resonate and ring down specifically because it is an LC resonator.

At this point, I hope and pray that you understand what resonance is and what an ideal torque is.

All of your attempts to be dismissive and reject concepts like an ideal voltage or current source, or an ideal force or velocity source are just you showing your severe limitations and the fact that you don't want to work to achieve an understanding of what these things are.  I put in time and effort in an attempt to get you up the learning curve with respect to this stuff and I would hope that you can put in the effort to get to a satisfactory level of understanding for yourself.

Like it or not, you were blown out of the water, and it was for your own good.  It was a Great Marianas Turkey Shoot and I was the shooter.

If you want to be fake and pretentious and pretend you are teaching me, then look at this:

A tuning fork is not a system,it is a single component.
Once again,a wine glass is a single component--not a system.
Once again,the bell alone is not a system,and will not resonate by it self.

Each one of the mechanical systems above is a mechanical LC resonator with two components - a mass and a spring.  The reason you are saying what you say is because you don't understand how to model a physical system with an analogous electrical circuit.  I tried to explain that to you with the wine glass and put in considerable effort and I am trying to explain that to you again.  If you don't get it and refuse to consider it and do some research on your own because you think you know better then that is your loss, and you will be lost the next time you encounter a similar situation.

I am giving you the real deal and I know what I am talking about.  Don't feign that you are trying to teach me and then talk foolishness, it only makes you look more foolish.

I am done with this and if you don't get it, then you don't get it and you remain lost.

MileHigh

Quote

An LC circuit will not resonate without an external force acting upon it--this is fact.

That is complete and utter nonsense.  If you connect a charged capacitor to an inductor the LC circuit will resonate and ring down specifically because it is an LC resonator.

You had to use an external voltage and current source to charge the capacitor in the first place.
Try connecting an uncharged capacitor to an inductor. Will it start to resonate without first having applied an external force to the circuit or one component of the circuit (the capacitor)?

That is complete and utter nonsense.  If you connect a charged capacitor to an inductor the LC circuit will resonate and ring down specifically because it is an LC resonator.

You had to use an external voltage and current source to charge the capacitor in the first place.
Try connecting an uncharged capacitor to an inductor. Will it start to resonate without first having applied an external force to the circuit or one component of the circuit (the capacitor)?

No of course it will not start to resonate.  Charging the capacitor is equivalent to striking a tuning fork to get it to resonate.

Brad is always focused on "resonance" being an external driving force at the resonant frequency getting the resonator to resonate.  You don't need an external driving force, all that you need to do is put a one-shot injection of energy into the mechanical or electrical resonator to get it to resonate and manifest resonance.  That will be a demonstration of the true core meaning of resonance.

From HyperPhysics:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/reson.html#resdef

[The first definition that they give:]

Resonance

In sound applications, a resonant frequency is a natural frequency of vibration determined by the physical parameters of the vibrating object. This same basic idea of physically determined natural frequencies applies throughout physics in mechanics, electricity and magnetism, and even throughout the realm of modern physics.

[The second definition that they give, the one you are obsessing on:]

Ease of Excitation at Resonance

It is easy to get an object to vibrate at its resonant frequencies, hard at other frequencies. A child's playground swing is an example of a pendulum, a resonant system with only one resonant frequency. With a tiny push on the swing each time it comes back to you, you can continue to build up the amplitude of swing. If you try to force it to swing a twice that frequency, you will find it very difficult, and might even lose teeth in the process!

And those two examples agree with what i am trying to tell you.]
Do you not read and understand the difference between an object oscillating at it's natural frequency,and resonating.



Brad

 author=MileHigh link=topic=16589.msg485815#msg485815 date=1465151477]

An LC circuit is a resonant circuit that acts as an electrical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

Provide just one video of an LC circuit ringing down,where the operator says it is resonating.

A tuning fork is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

A tuning fork will vibrate at it's natural frequency when struck once--it is not resonating.

A wine glass is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

A wine glass will ring at it's natural frequency when struck once--it is not resonating.

A bell is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

A bell will ring at it's natural frequency when struck once--it is not resonating.

Brad

OMG look at this, a smoking tuning fork gun where they say that a struck tuning fork is resonating.  Run for the hills.

Resonance, forced vibration, and a tuning forks demo

http://thekidshouldseethis.com/post/resonance-forced-vibration-and-a-tuning-forks-demonstration

Provide just one video of an LC circuit ringing down,where the operator says it is resonating.

Here, my favourite guy, and in the first clip he says that the parallel LC circuit "has a resonant frequency."

The LC Circuit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3-HwZMThzQ

The LC Circuit (part II)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5yMPyNkdkI

 







MileHigh

No, in fact my definition of an ideal torque was 100% correct and yours was wrong.  You can't say that my mechanical abilities are "very limited," that's just nonsensical spinning and you have nothing to backup that false claim.

Your mechanical abilities !are! very limited--that much was obvious in the JT thread,and once again-here.
As i said,your flywheel and angular velocity analogy was very limited,and poor at best,as there dose not have to be motion for a torque to exist.
This once again,shows us how limited your thinking is.

More importantly, I never said that there had to be angular momentum for there to be torque applied to an object.  You are falsely trying to put words into my mouth.

Those were your exact word's MH,i am putting no words into your mouth.
Your knickers are in a twist once again,because you know my example covered the whole spectrum of an ideal torque,while yours was very limited.

Likewise, I never stated that torque only applies to things in motion.  One more time, you are falsely trying to put words into my mouth

Post 967--Quote: Here is what an ideal torque would be:  A system that applies the same torque to the spinning flywheel regardless of the angular velocity of the flywheel.
Your own words MH--not mine.

Again, my example for an ideal torque was 100% accurate.

As we can see from your own words MH,your example was very limited.

That is complete and utter nonsense.  If you connect a charged capacitor to an inductor the LC circuit will resonate and ring down specifically because it is an LC resonator.

Rubbish.
The stored energy will just oscillate back and forth,until it is dissipated by the resistance of the system. The system will not resonate until an outside force causes a maximum amplitude to be gained within that system,where that amplitude is determined by the outside force.

At this point, I hope and pray that you understand what resonance is and what an ideal torque is.

I understood it long ago,but you have some work to do MH.

All of your attempts to be dismissive and reject concepts like an ideal voltage or current source, or an ideal force or velocity source are just you showing your severe limitations and the fact that you don't want to work to achieve an understanding of what these things are.

I reject anything that dose not exist,or cannot be tested due to it's non existence.

I put in time and effort in an attempt to get you up the learning curve with respect to this stuff and I would hope that you can put in the effort to get to a satisfactory level of understanding for yourself.

I have put in just as much time trying to deliver to you the difference between an object that is resonating,and one that is oscillating and ringing down at it's natural resonant frequency.

Like it or not, you were blown out of the water, and it was for your own good.  It was a Great Marianas Turkey Shoot and I was the shooter.

Im sorry MH,but you only have judged yourself.
You screwed up on the ICE issue
You screwed up on the J/FET issue
You screwed up on the stiffness V elasticity issue with your wine glass saga
Your attempt at explaining an ideal torque was very limited.
You have screwed up understanding the difference between an object oscillating at it's natural frequency,and when it is resonating.
And you screwed up on which JT circuit is most efficient--even when i gave a very good reason as to why !your! JT circuit would not be as efficient as the other one i put forward.
And you wish to use non existent !ideal! components to justify real world applications and outcomes.

Each one of the mechanical systems above is a mechanical LC resonator with two components - a mass and a spring.  The reason you are saying what you say is because you don't understand how to model a physical system with an analogous electrical circuit.  I tried to explain that to you with the wine glass and put in considerable effort and I am trying to explain that to you again.  If you don't get it and refuse to consider it and do some research on your own because you think you know better then that is your loss, and you will be lost the next time you encounter a similar situation.

And im trying to explain to you,that none of those systems will resonate without an outside force acting upon those system,in order to gain maximum amplitude of the oscillations--which is needed in order for a system to be said it is resonating.
The examples you have given MH,are harmonic oscillators that are not resonating.
A harmonic oscillator will only resonate when an external time dependent force is present,and acting upon the harmonic oscillator.

Quote: Mechanical resonance is the tendency of a mechanical system to absorb more energy when the frequency of its oscillations matches the system's natural frequency of vibration than it does at other frequencies. It may cause violent swaying motions and even catastrophic failure in improperly constructed structures including bridges, buildings, trains, and aircraft. When designing objects, engineers must ensure the mechanical resonance frequencies of the component parts do not match driving vibrational frequencies of motors or other oscillating parts, a phenomenon known as resonance disaster.

If you want to be fake and pretentious and pretend you are teaching me, then look at this:

The only one here MH that is fake-is you.
You pride your self with such great knowledge,but you will never stand against me in any sort of challenge to put !your! great knowledge up against mine.
You even avoid going up against me in a simple JT build off,to see who actually has the good's.

I am giving you the real deal and I know what I am talking about.  Don't feign that you are trying to teach me and then talk foolishness, it only makes you look more foolish.

There is no point in trying to teach you anything MH,as you are to far gone.

I am done with this.

Thank God for small mercies


Brad