You are so utterly hapless and confused when it comes to this stuff sometimes Brad, it just blows my mind how you can't think for yourself and achieve a "normal" level of understanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit

LC circuit

An LC circuit, also called a resonant circuit, tank circuit, or tuned circuit, is an electric circuit consisting of an inductor, represented by the letter L, and a capacitor, represented by the letter C, connected together. The circuit can act as an electrical resonator, an electrical analogue of a tuning fork, storing energy oscillating at the circuit's resonant frequency.

That is correct MH.
It is an LC circuit--a system,where two!!yes two!! components are working together.
Neither the capacitor or inductor will resonate alone.
Your bell will not resonate alone.
Please apply a pulse to either an inductor or capacitor alone,and show us all here how it resonates.

Who is the hapless and confused  one MH?.

Brad

Here is your "big intellectual hurdle" that you must get over Brad to not stick out of the Electronics 001 class like a sore thumb:  "Resonance" has two meanings.  Now is that so hard to get into your head?  There is the same old "driven resonance" that you always refer to and are stuck to like some poor hapless fly on flypaper.

Here is the second definition put into some easy-to-understand sentences:



Now, here we go:











Which one is it going to be?

MileHigh

Presumably you are talking about an ideal LC circuit vs. an LCR circuit that will ring down.  There is nothing special there.

No,i am not talking about MHs fantasy land--we are talking real world applications.
There is no such thing as an ideal LC circuit,nor is there such thing as a self resonating bell or wine glass.

An LCR circuit will resonate by itself.  So will a tuning fork, a bell, and a wine glass.

No they will not.
They will oscillate for a short time,where each oscillation become smaller,until the oscillations stop.

Nothing will resonate by it self,there needs to be an outside force acting upon the system in order for resonance to occur.

For starters, keep this in mind, "An LC circuit, also called a resonant circuit, tank circuit, or tuned circuit, is an electric circuit consisting of an inductor, represented by the letter L, and a capacitor, represented by the letter C, connected together. The circuit can act as an electrical resonator, an electrical analogue of a tuning fork, storing energy oscillating at the circuit's resonant frequency."

Once again-in the hope it will sink in,the LC circuit is a system--two components,where the energy oscillates between the two energy storage systems. The bell and the wine glass are single entities,and no resonance occurs,as there is no second component to form a resonant system.

An LC circuit is a resonant circuit that acts as an electrical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

An LC circuit will not resonate without an external force acting upon it--this is fact.
An LC circuit also is a system that consist of two components--not !one! component like your bell and wine glass.

A tuning fork is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

A tuning fork is not a system,it is a single component.
A tuning fork will oscillate at it's resonant frequency,but it will not resonate alone.
System-->a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network; a complex whole.

A wine glass is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

Once again,a wine glass is a single component--not a system.
It will not resonate without an outside force acting upon it.

A bell is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.[/b]

Once again,the bell alone is not a system,and will not resonate by it self.

Now, does that register in your brain or are you just going to stick to the single definition of resonance that you understand and completely ignore the second definition of resonance that is actually the more basic and fundamental definition of what resonance really is?

Do you know what a system is MH?--it is not one single component.
Did you watch the !very easy to understand! video i posted for you ,explaining the difference between oscillating at a natural resonant frequency,and resonance?.

Everything i have posted in regards to the difference between oscillating at a natural frequency ,and resonance is absolutely correct,and you do not get to change the meanings or definitions to suit your need to be correct.
You are flat out wrong,and once again,your inability to decipher the difference between oscillation at a natural frequency,and resonance just go's to show how lost you are.

Feel free to show us a capacitor or an inductor resonating by it self


Brad

So Brad, we had this huge MASSIVE discussion about the wine glass and you are telling all of us that nothing sunk in?  Nothing sunk in at all?  So you are just a big blank slate right now, on autopilot.

It's like you time warped and missed it all, and here you are, a lost soul.  I wish that I could say that it is all simply unbelievable, but it is clearly believable.

As usual MH,you have it all ass about.
Your wine glass saga and answers were not agreed upon by anyone other than your self.
Even you mix up between !stiffness! and elasticity was tried to be explained to you by many on that thread.

I do not know how you keep coming up with--!!everyone but you agree's with me!! MH,but that is far from the truth. No one agreed with your wine glass explanation MH,and that is a fact that can be backed by the posts on the thread it self.

You have a hard time defining the difference between an object oscillating at it's natural resonant frequency,to that of an object being in resonance within a system.

You blatantly disregard every single link and video i post,to show you the meanings of the two, only so as you can try and maintain your nonsense.

Nothing will resonate on it's own MH,as it is not part of a system that is needed in order for resonance to occur.

Every single link and video i have posted regarding this matter,all say the same thing,and define the difference between an object vibrating at it's natural resonant frequency(like your bell and wine glass),and when that object resonates,or becomes resonant.
Although this will just once again ,fall on deaf ear's,here is another link,in the hope's that you will finally understand the difference.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/resonance-info.htm

Quote: Resonance, An object free to vibrate tends to do so at a specific rate called the object's natural, or resonant, frequency. (This frequency depends on the size, shape, and composition of the object.) Such an object will vibrate strongly when it is subjected to vibrations or regular impulses at a frequency equal to or very close to its natural frequency. This phenomenon is called resonance. Through resonance, a comparatively weak vibration in one object can cause a strong vibration in another. By analogy, the term resonance is also used to describe the phenomenon by which an oscillating electric current is strengthened by an electric signal of a specific frequency.

Surly it cant be this hard for you to understand MH.


Brad

And one last time MH,in the hope you will see the error of your thinking.

The physics behind resonance,and when an object will resonate.

Please try and understand what you are reading.
Once again,the below link tells the very same story that the other 20 or so links and video's i have provided over the two threads--this one,and the JT thread.

You will once again see how an object vibrating at it's natural resonant frequency,and the same object resonating are defined.
Your wine glass and bell are not resonating while they are ringing down--they are oscillating at there natural resonant frequency.
Please read carefully MH.
The 3 things needed to get an object to resonate.
These are things you cannot change to try and justify your nonsense MH,whether you like it or not.

Quote:
The ABC's of Resonance

Resonance causes an object to move back and forth or up and down. This motion is generally called oscillation. Sometimes the oscillation is easy to see such as the motion of a swing on a playground or the vibration in a guitar string. In other cases the oscillation is impossible to see without measuring instruments. For example,  electrons in an electrical circuit can oscillate but it happens on a molecular level.

In resonance the oscillation occurs  at a specific frequency. These oscillations build up rapidly to very high levels. Ultimately some of the energy in the oscillations has to be removed from the object or the size of the oscillations get so large that the object breaks.

Resonance requires 3 basic conditions:

A) An Object With a Natural Frequency: The object can be a mechanical device or an electronic circuit. An object's natural frequency is the frequency it tends to oscillate at when disturbed. The oscillation can be a mechanical vibration as is the case when the string of a guitar is strummed. In an electronic circuit the oscillation is a variable voltage or current. An object can have more than one natural frequency. These are called harmonics. A guitar string sounds musical because it vibrates with several harmonics when it is strummed.

B) A Forcing Function at the Same Frequency as the Natural Frequency: In mechanical systems the forcing function is a variable force. In electronic circuits it arises from a variable electric field. In either case the forcing function does work on the object it is applied to. Since work is a form of energy transfer it causes energy to build up in the object.

C) A Lack of Damping or Energy Loss: For an object to resonate, mechanical or electrical energy has to build up in the object. Anything which removes these forms of energy tends to interfere with resonance. Damping is a means of  removing electrical or mechanical energy by converting it to heat. The term damping should not be confused with the term dampening which means to make something slightly wet. Friction, air resistance, and viscous drag can all provide damping in mechanical systems. Electrical resistance performs the same function in electronic circuits. Other forms of energy loss can include sound (musical instruments) or light emissions (lasers).

When the forcing function's frequency  matches the natural frequency of an object it will begin to resonate. The forcing function adds energy at just the right moment during the oscillation cycle so that the oscillation is reinforced. This makes the oscillation's amplitude grow larger and larger. These oscillations would eventually become infinitely large. However, as mentioned earlier, long before the oscillations reach infinity one of three things happens: 1) the object's dynamics change so that the resonant frequency and forcing functions no longer match, 2) the energy lost as heat, sound, or light becomes equal to the energy input. or 3) the object breaks

http://www.intuitor.com/resonance/abcRes.html

You have not supplied one link MH,that says an object will resonate without this forcing function.
The reason you have not done this,is because an object will not resonate by it self--it will only vibrate/oscillate at it's natural resonant frequency-->but it will not resonate.

It is clear that you have lost the ability to learn,and the falsehoods you have become to believe ,are set in stone with you.
This is not going to be very helpful to those here wishing to learn the truth.

I have provided more than enough evidence to squash your silly understandings on resonance.
But of course,everyone else will be wrong,and MH will be right.


Brad

Brad:

You are still completely and utterly lost.  For this subject matter, your ability to conceptualize something all by yourself is essentially nil.  Sometimes you have almost no innate capacity to figure something out by yourself.

A tuning fork is not a system,it is a single component.

No in fact a tuning fork is a mechanical system.   You know what an LC resonator is, a capacitor connected to an inductor.  The simple model for a tuning fork, a wine glass, and a bell, is an LC resonator.  All four of them are resonators that all work in fundamentally the same way.

Here is what you fail to realize even after countless attempts to explain this to you in the case of the wine glass:  The mass of the arms of the tuning fork, using the force-current analogy, is modeled as a capacitance.  Likewise, stiffness of the arms of the tuning fork to deflection (the springiness) is modeled as an inductance.  A tuning fork is simply a mechanical LC resonator.  See the attached graphic.

What is the etymology for the word "resonance?"  It comes from French, meaning to "re-sound."  In other words, sound coming back, or sound bouncing back and forth.  Where is this "bounce" in resonance?  In the case of the tuning fork, the moving arms translate their motion and energy into the spring of the tuning fork and compress it.  Then the energy that is in the spring "re-sounds" or "bounces back" and the arms are moving again.  This process repeats over and over.  That is fundamentally what resonance is.

As such, an LC circuit, a tuning fork, a wine glass, and a bell are all LC resonators that resonate at their resonant frequency and manifest the phenomenon of resonance.  They don't have to be externally driven by an excitation that is at the resonant frequency, they are perfectly fine to resonate all by themselves and ring down if energy is put into the system.  i.e.; striking a tuning fork.

The act of ringing down is an example of resonance.  The fact that the system rings down due to the damping effects of a resistance to the oscillation does take away from the fact that the system is resonating.

Now if only you could understand this.

MileHigh

Whether right or wrong, decaying oscillations of a resonant system are often referred to as still resonating.

By the definition given in the attachment, an LC circuit is a resonant system, as is also an air resonant cavity.

I suspect that everything that can resonate has an energy exchange process within itself, even after the stimulus is removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuning_fork

Tuning fork

A tuning fork is an acoustic resonator in the form of a two-pronged fork with the prongs (tines) formed from a U-shaped bar of elastic metal (usually steel). It resonates at a specific constant pitch when set vibrating by striking it against a surface or with an object, and emits a pure musical tone after waiting a moment to allow some high overtones to die out. The pitch that a particular tuning fork generates depends on the length and mass of the two prongs. It is frequently used as a standard of pitch to tune musical instruments.

[What they say later is that the pitch is also determined by the springiness of the metal of the tuning fork, where they discuss Young's modulus.]

The main reason for using the fork shape is that, unlike many other types of resonators, it produces a very pure tone, with most of the vibrational energy at the fundamental frequency, and little at the overtones (harmonics)

Here we go again:

An LC circuit is a resonant circuit that acts as an electrical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

A tuning fork is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

A wine glass is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

A bell is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

All of the above systems are modeled by the attached circuit.  This is a simplified model that does not include the resistor.