I don't know, do you?

If however CH2 on your scope was not set to "INVERT" mode, it would appear that way wouldn't it?

Perhaps CH 1 was inverted,or you are looking at the winding directions of the coils in the pic-that may not represent the actual winding direction of the coils,as not dot convention is depicted on the two transformer coils?. Regardless of polarity,it is more associating the rising and falling current value to that of the rising and falling secondaries EMF value. <ost of us here were able to determine that the scope shot was correct-in that it showed that at the point of maximum rate of change in the magnetic field(determined by the current trace at the 0 volt line),we see a maximum EMF amplitude across the secondary coil,and that the phase difference of 90* is correct.

While you are here,could you answer a simple question?.
What is needed in order to cause a change in impedance in a transformer,where that transformer has a primary and secondary winding,and is of an air core type ?.


Brad

.[/b]  The answers are perfectly accurate.  About half a dozen times I stated the answers had to be short simple answers in four sentences or less.  What can't you understand about that?

More embarrassing stuff.  Yes phase, but not necessarily phase.  Take little tiny baby steps Brad and you will get there.

I told you if you wanted to be serious you would do a full power audit for both cases to understand what was going on but I assume that you didn't.

It's embarrassing how ridiculous and awful your behaviour is.  The answers are correct

Lets look at your !big reveal! answers then.
Post 1847.--The wine glass resonates by cycling energy back and forth between two forms, kinetic energy and potential energy.
This part is good.
The instant when the glass is not deformed, the glass is moving at a maximum velocity
This is correct as well
all of the energy is stored as kinetic energy in the form of a moving mass
This is  incorrect,as some of the energy is dissipated while the mass is moving -in simple terms,in way of sound waves.
The instant when the glass is at its maximum deformation, the glass has stopped moving and all of the energy is stored as potential energy in the form of a compressed spring
Well i see at this !instant! point in time,you have correctly stated that the glass has stopped moving-!BUT! not all of the kinetic energy is stored as potential energy,but more so the remaining kinetic energy is stored as potential energy. But at this very point the glass stops moving,is the very point when a vibrational wave is created,and so at the point of kinetic to potential energy transformation,a small portion of energy is dissipated as vibrations.
It is also funny how you have used the term!compressed spring!,where a spring has very little stiffness,but a high value of elasticity--something to think about
In between these two states, the energy is stored as combination of kinetic energy and potential energy.
Not all the energy is stored,as some is dissipated-as i explained above.

The resonant frequency of a wine glass is determined by a combination of the effective moving mass of the glass and the effective stiffness of the glass interacting with each other.

Almost MH,but you needed to add in the environmental conditions as well--to be accurate,as the wine glass would also have to include the atmosphere that is both inside and around the wine glass as effective moving mass,along with being an effective resistance as well--none of that in space  --but we wont get picky now.

The higher the effective moving mass of the glass, the lower the resonant frequency.  The higher the effective stiffness the glass, the higher the resonant frequency.

See,now here is where you went from compressed spring to stiffness. The correct term(and this is the scientific term MH)is elasticity of the glass--not stiffness,as when you use the correct term!elasticity!,then the elasticity value has to decrease in order for the resonant frequency to increase,where as your !!stiffness!! has to increase in order for the resonant frequency to increase

These were your answers MH,and you said that all of ours given were wrong,and yours was going to be absolute,and correct.
If you are going to make a claim like this,then you need to be 100% correct-even in a 4 sentence explanation. But as you can see,you were not,and that is fact MH.
If any one of us had of put up answers like that,after dismissing everyone elses,then you would have picked us apart--as you generally do.
So the same applies to you--you were not 100% correct MH,and all that you have provided had been already stated many times in the thread.


Brad

Please go ahead Brad, I would like you to tell me what you think is wrong with my two answers.

Here they are:

How does a wine glass resonate, what is the mechanism?

The wine glass resonates by cycling energy back and forth between two forms, kinetic energy and potential energy.  The instant when the glass is not deformed, the glass is moving at a maximum velocity and all of the energy is stored as kinetic energy in the form of a moving mass.  The instant when the glass is at its maximum deformation, the glass has stopped moving and all of the energy is stored as potential energy in the form of a compressed spring.  In between these two states, the energy is stored as combination of kinetic energy and potential energy.

How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?

The resonant frequency of a wine glass is determined by a combination of the effective moving mass of the glass and the effective stiffness of the glass interacting with each other.  The higher the effective moving mass of the glass, the lower the resonant frequency.  The higher the effective stiffness the glass, the higher the resonant frequency.

Stiffness only refers to the resisting of a movement in a given direction.
 
Elasticity refers to both the resistance to the movement AND the returning to the condition/configuration prior to being moved as seen in a resonating glass.  They are NOT synonymous engineering terms. 
 
Other than that, I don't see any other real errors here.
 
Bill

Stiffness only refers to the resisting of a movement in a given direction.
 
Elasticity refers to both the resistance to the movement AND the returning to the condition/configuration prior to being moved as seen in a resonating glass.  They are NOT synonymous engineering terms. 
 
Other than that, I don't see any other real errors here.
 
Bill

No, that's not true.  I asked that the questions be answered in simple terms.  Are you trying to tell me that you can't talk about the stiffness of a spring?  Are you telling me that you have never used that term in your life when talking about a spring?  Are we all in remedial English class now?

Here, from a spring manufacturer:

http://www.acxesspring.com/spring-stiffness-calculator.html

There are many spring calculators around the internet but none like Spring Creator. This spring stiffness calculator will calculate all of the values required to determine whether the spring will be stiff enough to meet its requirements. The stiffness of your spring depends on the proportion of each spring dimension with all the others. This is where spring index and space between the coils (pitch) comes in. The examples shown below the calculator will explain why your spring is either too stiff or not stiff enough.

A Dummies link:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-calculate-a-spring-constant-using-hookes-la.html

Hooke’s law gives the force a spring exerts on an object attached to it with the following equation:

F = –kx

where the minus sign shows that this force is in the opposite direction of the force that’s stretching or compressing the spring. (k is called the spring constant, which measures how stiff and strong the spring is. x is the distance the spring is stretched or compressed away from its equilibrium or rest position.)

I flat-out refuse to get into another nonsensical debate on this thread.

MileHigh

Wrong. The glass never stops moving. At a point where the glass is at its maximum, there is no maximum because that maximum effect is transferred elsewhere on the glass rim. There is no stopping. This is not like a spring.

You are treating this like it is a pulsed coil. This is not a pulsed coil. It is a closed loop that generates it own internal harmonics and there is no stopping anything during the resonance, just the intensity of the resonance will fluctuate but never stop. Why because the energy used to resonate the glass does not stop as well.

This is just junk though. Again unrelated to coils, cores and the like.

wattsup

You may wish to rethink your response. Clearly the glass resonates in a uniform fashion, and it does experience a maximum deformation point where it stops before being deformed in the other two adjacent quadrants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE827gwnnk4

Wrong. The glass never stops moving. At a point where the glass is at its maximum, there is no maximum because that maximum effect is transferred elsewhere on the glass rim. There is no stopping. This is not like a spring.

You are treating this like it is a pulsed coil. This is not a pulsed coil. It is a closed loop that generates it own internal harmonics and there is no stopping anything during the resonance, just the intensity of the resonance will fluctuate but never stop. Why because the energy used to resonate the glass does not stop as well.

This is just junk though. Again unrelated to coils, cores and the like.

wattsup

I am not treating it like a pulsed coil and it is not junk at all.  There are no harmonics.  It is directly related to coils, cores, and the like.  I already covered that in a posting.

Forgive my intrusion, this post sparked my curiosity.  I hope you don't mind my asking you a question.  Please assume I am ignorant (not very difficult, I am not learned), were I to comprehend the concept of an "impedance change in the system", what would I find that you feel would convince me that marveling over "energy from magnets" is a waste of time?

Regards

Erfinder, there is only so far that you can go with feeling, gut instinct and not wanting to do any measurements.  What you would find is that if you could account for all of the power in the system and where it was all going such that the magnets don't contribute so much as a nano-watt to the operating system - provided you do the measurements.  Do it again with a different system and find that you arrive at the same conclusion.  Do it again for yet another system and find that you arrive at the same conclusion.  Then the only question then is how many times you want to continue circling around in the revolving door until you have had enough.