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Author Topic: I see an economic diasater coming...  (Read 1259518 times)

Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #225 on: December 05, 2009, 08:58:28 AM »
Show a valid reference where Obama made the banks do that. Regardless, what Obama did was for the best of the entire country to prevent another great depression. Looks like the economy is picking up despite the nightmare George W. Bush put us in.

I have to laugh a bit at the "Bush Nightmare". It would not have been possible for the economic house of cards to be built if Clinton had not helped the commercial bank deregulation that  created the mortgage mess.

While I think Bush should be publicly flayed for terrorist actions against middle eastern nations  and killing his own citizens to buy oil @ the cost of 100,000's of lives, I don't think he was alone in any of his actions.
Democrats AND Republicans can't really be told apart and have been pretty synonymous in actions for decades.

As to Obama's bailout, where did BILLIONS of dollars go that can't be accounted for?
Do you think that "cash for clunkers" is going to have ANY positive impact on the environment when people were trading in vehicles for new ones that MIGHT get 3MPG better economy than what they traded?
Does committing to a new war theater with a "timeline" make any more sense then the Iraq "war" (if anyone is a terrorist, the USA is for using a terrorist act as a excuse to secure oil availability from the middle east)?

Stop thinking in terms that favor one party of the ruling bicameral class of US politics and start connecting the dots of how they are colluding to create a new wage-slave class.

You know, in the definition used today of  a terrorist (which is a silly made up term for obsfucation) all of the American founding fathers were one.
They were rich slave/land owners that didn't want to pay taxes and thought it within their rights to commit terrorist acts against the ruling gov't of the time.

Kinda sobering, eh?

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #226 on: December 05, 2009, 12:48:54 PM »

" I think it's the 'dry British humor', I almost bit, then I caught your act over at feet-to-the-fire and it slowly dawned on me..."

...and to make things worse I'm not even British.


exxcomm has it right...it is manipulation from above...political parties are just false fronts.

Obusha and Bushbama have the same bosses.

Regards...


Offline ATT

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #227 on: December 05, 2009, 05:33:14 PM »
Quote
...and to make things worse I'm not even British.

Ok, I'm laughing...

Quote
exxcomm has it right...it is manipulation from above...political parties are just false fronts.

Undoubtedly.

Now, what do you propose towards a solution?

Tony

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #228 on: December 05, 2009, 06:16:57 PM »

Well, for starters...all protests against this global takeover would have to be situated outside the media outlets who indoctrinate the masses with supporting elitist propaganda...and with the various talking heads targeted personally on the signage.

Then we will see how eager they are to accept their payoff's for spreading lies, when becoming public pariah's is part of the package.

Regards...


Offline ATT

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #229 on: December 05, 2009, 10:12:17 PM »
Well, for starters...all protests against this global takeover would have to be situated outside the media outlets...

Activism by way of protest is of limited use and premature protestation is self defeating.

1.) Define your agenda.
2.) Establish your legitimacy.
3.) Communicate your agenda.
4.) Grow your base.

If you can manage the first two, you can proceed to the third which (if effectively pursued) will lead to the fourth.

There is more.

Tony

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #230 on: December 05, 2009, 10:54:20 PM »

All that is needed is a rotating presence in the places I indicated...the resulting public exhibitions as the culprits arrive and leave their "jobs" will be all over the net.

Public disgrace is not what these media whores are into...they love basking in their fame.

The old methods do not get to the puppet masters behind the curtain...wheres as with this new strategy somebody gets to endure well deserved public scorn.

When the messenger is intentionally deceiving you, the messenger must be held to account.

Regards...


Offline ATT

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #231 on: December 05, 2009, 11:43:22 PM »
Quote
All that is needed is a rotating presence in the places I indicated...the resulting public exhibitions as the culprits arrive and leave their "jobs" will be all over the net.

And how do you propose to furnish this 'rotating presence' if you don't first engage a sufficient number through the methods mentioned previously?

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The old methods do not get to the puppet masters behind the curtain...

As it is said: 'They that do not learn from history...'.

Tony

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #232 on: December 06, 2009, 12:22:47 AM »
Democrats AND Republicans can't really be told apart and have been pretty synonymous in actions for decades.
I do actually have to agree with that one.  I never have voted for that reason.
Since I was in the US Air Force during the Vietnam war, I've had a real problem with official authority.
What to do about it?  I'll let the turkeys start killing each other off while I stay out of the way as much as possible.
Quote
As to Obama's bailout, where did BILLIONS of dollars go that can't be accounted for?
The same place several pallets of cash did in Iraq.  It disappeared after it was unloaded from the plane.

--Lee

Offline ATT

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #233 on: December 06, 2009, 12:40:18 AM »
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...I never have voted for that reason.
Yeah, in those days we couldn't vote until we were 21, I was still in the military then (I think I was at Gitmo for that election). I'm a registered independent.

How's the move going, Lee? Haven't talked to you for awhile, Everything going OK?

Tony

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #234 on: December 06, 2009, 12:55:57 AM »

To advance the issue...once people become fully aware these media heads have been snowing them, their next thought will be why, and who's paying them off.

Thats when things will really start to happen...one thought always leads to another.

I was hoping for some momentum from the 'Climate Conspiracy Scam' but the CBC and CTV whores are downplaying it, so its likely the major US outlets are also.

Outing the media whores has to be on the minds of others in the various activist groups by now also...I planted a seed or two there myself, nothing sprouting that I know of though.

The media head whores have many researchers and assistants who scour the net for stuff, so they have to be reading the things people are saying about them them already.

So, maybe one or two will break ranks and spill the beans soon.

It would be far better for them to be bad side of the bad guys for a little while, because they will and are being taken down from within...whereas the public is everywhere and has a long memory.

End of my rant of the week.

Regards...


Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #235 on: December 06, 2009, 01:36:57 AM »
<snip>
Undoubtedly.
Now, what do you propose towards a solution?
Tony
Hi Tony,

Since "you" is a somewhat generic method of address, I'll interpret it as a question of open debate. ;)

I think that gov't officials should be held to the same standard as any other employee.
In short, they are YOUR employees! Start holding them accountable as such.

They should have independent review of their progress towards achieving the goals they promised as a condition of their successful election (aka getting hired) in a more timely manner than election only.

They should have to account for the use of their time while "on the clock" for the time spent on the job doing what they were "hired" to do.
In this day and age of webcams, twitter, blogging, GPS, biometrics, etc. (although electronic data is the absolute easiest type to manipulate and falsify) it shouldn't be hard to implement a regimen that makes them accountable and have their day-to-day activities be easily accessible public knowledge.

Their monetary renumeration (pay) should be based on their ability to achieve those goals in a manner that is the most cost effective for their employer (those that elected them) and impacts the environment the least, instead of having their pay raises being governed solely by themselves.
When was the last election for gov't pay raises you could vote on that you can remember?

Now all of these point to the idea that there needs to be a body that oversees the gov't, essentially a global overseeing committee OF gov't (or a gov't of gov't), but in being a governing body, it is just as susceptible to corruption and intractability as any gov't has proven to be.

How this can be accomplished is a task that is not easily undertaken or practiced by a keyboard jockey in 30 minutes worth of "thinking" and typing (which is essentially what I am).
Historically the only thing to bring about any of the principals I outline above is bloody revolution which I cannot, with clear conscience, suggest, yet.

I think that people need those intensely interested in current events and how the gov't has influenced those events to make sure that atrocities that have gone before not be repeated, or at least go unreported using modest and uncompensated methods (like posting to sites like this).
But the public has to listen and think, which is proven to not be easy or usual these days.

Other than that, realization of the aim of this site (free, or individually produced energy) would be a major stepping stone to wresting the power that gov't has accrued through slight of hand or public ennui back into the hands of the public.
It's the publics responsibility to want to listen and think about what they've heard to make gov't fear the wrath of the common man as the comman man fears the gov't today.

It might not happen as it's not easy or fun, but it is the only thing that will turn the tide towards (resolving) action.

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #236 on: December 06, 2009, 01:48:33 AM »
How's the move going, Lee? Haven't talked to you for awhile, Everything going OK?
I'm in San Francisco permanently, now.  However, permanent, affordable housing is a problem to acquire, especially in a serious recession like this one.  *The streets* are a looming issue if I don't get lucky.  I do have a good opportunity at one place I'll apply to shortly.  But, thanks for asking.

I haven't said much in the recent past because other Member's fairly political opinions, IMHO, were being discussed on particular subjects---Like: exactly whose to blame for getting all us Americans in a recession this bad?---that I considered subjective.  Plenty of blame to go around.  Numerical figures can be looked at more than one way and also cherry-picked for "correct interpretation".

I disagree with those who say economic conditions are getting better for the reasons I stated previously.  I say Obama is creating or maintaining another economic bubble and that's what the "recession improvement" proponents are looking at.  Several things could go wrong shortly or eventually.  History says so.  Many times.  Time will tell whether I'm right or wrong.

--Lee

 

Offline ATT

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #237 on: December 06, 2009, 02:16:59 AM »
Quote
End of my rant of the week.

Not at all, cap, it's good to rant every now and then, helps to centre us out.

Quote
I was hoping for some momentum from the 'Climate Conspiracy Scam'...

Not sure how much 'mileage' that's good for, I'm not convinced there's a connection there aside from media-play gaining more listeners that sniff 'conspiracy', however, that's not to say there isn't vested interests on both sides of the issue, there obviously are, maybe just not the ones you're gunning for.

Quote
...once people become fully aware these media heads have been snowing them, their next thought will be why, and who's paying them off.

You know, the phrases 'people', 'fully aware', 'next thought', might be hanging your hat on some pretty sketchy assumptions.

First:     they don't -listen-.
Second: they don't -hear- when they -do- listen.
Third:    they don't -care- when they -do- hear.

If you have an agenda that you believe in, it takes a lot of work to get others to get to the same place you're at in your head, but it's gotta be legitimised and you have to show them it's important enough to -them- that they should care about it.

Even then, it's an uphill battle that's going to take a lot more organisation than viral-marketing alone to get folks to sign-on.

Figure it out: there's 300M people in the U.S., let's say 100M are kids (don't know the actual number).
That leaves 200M adults with ages (and concerns) going across the board.

Now, go out and get the number of listeners to all the major talk-shows on radio and TV that could make use of (be sympathetic to) your agenda (numbers may be available on the web in a central location, if not, drop an email saying you're considering advertising, they'll shoot you the numbers and the demographics).

Remember, there's no 'ideology' in business, if your stuff fits their format, their listeners will love it, their advertisers will like it and you can probably get some 'play'.

But, you have to do your homework and put together a 'package' these guys can use - you have to 'pitch' the package and provide ongoing support info to keep it going (one-shot isn't going to get it).

Now, getting back to numbers: add the listener-figures together, subtract 20% (same listeners/multiple shows), divide 200M into that number...that's the percentage of adults in the U.S. you can potentially reach directly, you have to count on 'viral' for the others.

You do the same thing on the web, get air-play on C2C (they're always looking for content), pitch your website, provide RSS feeds for your content, get your SEO and backlinks working, do guest spots on other blogs, keep the momentum going, don't let up for a minute.

It's a big job, dude, takes a lot of work and a lot of organization if your serious about getting it out there.

But the first thing you have to do, before any of this, is to investigate your assumptions, identify the individuals and organizations and assemble the 'facts' that back up your hypothesis, otherwise you won't get to square-1.

Tony


Offline ATT

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #238 on: December 06, 2009, 02:44:32 AM »

I think that people need those intensely interested in current events and how the gov't has influenced those events to make sure that atrocities that have gone before not be repeated, or at least go unreported using modest and uncompensated methods (like posting to sites like this).
But the public has to listen and think, which is proven to not be easy or usual these days.

(And, yes, 'you' is a generic reference, in this case...but you don't need an invitation, your thoughts are most welcome, anytime on any issue).

Your ideas are right-on, you are definitely the 'voice of reason', but like I said in my post to cap (and you've said the same thing here), getting people to listen requires an 'industrial-strength' solution to bring about.

There is just a small segment that's actually 'interested' and only a percentage of those who would be willing to participate to any degree.

That is, until things fall in on their head, then it's too late.

Tony




Offline ATT

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #239 on: December 06, 2009, 03:07:41 AM »
I disagree with those who say economic conditions are getting better for the reasons I stated previously.  I say Obama is creating or maintaining another economic bubble and that's what the "recession improvement" proponents are looking at.

Lee,  I think it's going to go double-dip too, just a matter of time (and it won't be a 'long-time'...).

I think we've both visited this subject before, but more recent posters weren't in on the beginnings so may have missed some of what was said.

In any event, I ran across an article on the web a couple of weeks ago that talked about three guys who bought an apartment bldg. in SF on some sort of government program - they didn't have any money for a down and I think they qualified as vets for reduced payments, but they got it.

I don't know what the program is, didn't save it out, but the VA may have some info on this.

Is SF the city of choice or is it that you have access to VA there? The reason I mention this is it's probably the highest rent-district in the state, but there is easy-access there (trolley, bus, train, plane) and anything you want within a small area (NYC is kinda like that, too).

Anyway, if I can dig up that article I'll shoot you a link.

Tony