Author Topic: The self-filling siphon, and why can't it be done? (Read 63261 times)

Nabo00o · « **on:** July 18, 2009, 10:20:00 PM »

This is also a continuation on my post here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6836.msg185402#new

So the process here is actually very simple to understand, no unnecessary parts are added.

Since the mass of the water hanging on the right side (the two pipes) is more than the mass of the water on the left side, and thus its weight is more, an imbalance of the two forces should cause the the water to flow down and pull with it the water existing in the tube all the way down to the bottom.

So Hans Von Lieven (since this is a direct experiment to test your paper), why can't the water flow like proposed, and if it can, then it will continue without stopping till the water has evaporated or until mechanical failure has damaged the construction (which will take some time!).

I am happy to discuss the scenarios which would normally hinder this process in working and why I think this is different. Btw, you could also compeer this to a gravity wheel. It could use the same idea of unbalancing the force of gravity.

Naboo

Edit: To those who don't know what a siphon is, check out these two links as they are handy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphon
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=siphon&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10&fp=hW_iG4xv4cU

Nabo00o · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2009, 10:37:23 PM »

Here's another picture.
It shows that if you increase the volume of water hanging on the right side you can increase the suction pressure and thus also the hight which the water can be transported to.

infringer · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2009, 10:50:31 PM »

Test your theory should be fairly easy to accomplish!

Post results looks like it would be worth a shot all the math and comments in the world do not hold water to a good old fashioned test hands on it is where the most can be learned as well.

This test should be cheap and requires little space so anyone can test it!

Nabo00o · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:04:00 PM »

Thank you Infringer, and yeah I totally agree!
Theory isn't worth anything if it can't be proven practically! That does also include my idea.
I tried to test it earlier by drilling several holes in a soda-bottle and then connect several tubes to it.
Sadly it never got airtight and wouldn't work at all, I do however have plans to test it later with a better setup.

In the mean time I thought it could be useful to give the idea to several people, maybe someone who has the parts already lying around and can test it.

Here's a more extreme yet possible setup if the principle works:

craZy · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:13:55 AM »

I was intrigued so i went and tried your idea using a 12ft length of garden hose lying around. its not the same but along similar thoughts. the hose was placed 2 feet up from point of siphon and 10 ft out. I was only able to get flow about 2inches above point of siphon and it was slow. but it was a continuous flow. thawt it was interesting enough to post.

Nabo00o · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:29:02 AM »

Hmmm, you just took a normal garden hose and connected it from the bottom to the top, without several outputs (it isn't thicker there maybe?)?

But wow! Are you saying that you actually have water flowing from it, without any external pressure added?!?

Please describe more!
Naboo

onthecuttingedge2005 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:46:07 AM »

Capillary Action.

craZy · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:53:10 AM »

yes you got me thinking about the added weight of water pulling the siphon. a 12 foot hose was all i had. but yes it flowed from the hose 2 inches above water intake. try it!!! a longer hose might get a better result. i hope someone else tries. id like to see what they get. if it stands true, with alot of pipes and long trofts for holding the water you mite hypothetically be able to build a water wheel self powered.

Nabo00o · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:57:31 AM »

@onthecuttingedge2005
Yes I know, capillary structures is really cool stuff, they move liquids against gravity!
But, you don't think capillary action is one of natures many laws which now will stop me from making my free energy with siphons? Hmm, I know a common garden hose works perfectly as a siphon, I used it many times, and there isn't much capillary action in those I think...

Nabo00o · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:01:28 AM »

Quote from: craZy on July 19, 2009, 01:53:10 AM

yes you got me thinking about the added weight of water pulling the siphon. a 12 foot hose was all i had. but yes it flowed from the hose 2 inches above water intake. try it!!! a longer hose might get a better result. i hope someone else tries. id like to see what they get. if it stands true, with alot of pipes and long trofts for holding the water you mite hypothetically be able to build a water wheel self powered.

Sorry for sounding like a skeptic, but you aren't just making this up are you?
I mean, you are using just one hose, how could that work?

Sorry, I really want to understand this!
Naboo

onthecuttingedge2005 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:08:40 AM »

I think a Capillary mass will be better than a single tube.

by Capillary mass I mean lots of Capillary tubes massed together to act as a single siphon system.

you can either make the mass capillary cable by lots of tubes 'or' you can take a bundle of fishing line or fibre optic lines in a mass and the water will climb the space between the lines.

Jerry

Nabo00o · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:55:52 AM »

@Jerry, I would say both yes and no. I actually also suggested to Hansvonlieven that using capillary structures could be a good idea. But they like to absorb liquid, and once filled they tend to hold it in place.
In addition too much chaotic surface would pose a certain resistance to flowing water.

But it was also what I was thinking of expanding this into. For example, how about rolling a long plastic sheet or any other material into a cylinder with a small distance between each layer shaped like a spiral? I could be an effective and cheap way to make a capillary structure which can also absorb large amounts of water.
Btw, do you know of any good method to make the water leave the structure at a given location, for example far above from where it was absorbed???

@craZy
I'm sorry if I didn't appreciate the information you gave me sufficiently. But it makes little sense in relationship to the way I thought it would work...
Hmm, if you could please repeat your experiment and check the following: Does it matter if more of the hose is on one side than on the other of the highest point? This could mean that you simply need more hose on the drain side to increase its effect.

Naboo

onthecuttingedge2005 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:16:22 AM »

Quote from: Nabo00o on July 19, 2009, 02:55:52 AM

Btw, do you know of any good method to make the water leave the structure at a given location, for example far above from where it was absorbed???

Hi Nabo.

can you draw up the example of how you want it to work?

Jerry

Nabo00o · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:31:28 AM »

Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 19, 2009, 03:16:22 AM

Hi Nabo.

can you draw up the example of how you want it to work?

Jerry

onthecuttingedge2005 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:37:38 AM »

Hi Nabo.

the Capillary mass cable that the Russians used was simply layed on its side at the end of its destination and it just dripped out. so long as the mass at the end was large enough.

I heard stories about them using these to carry up Water out of the rivers to houses into a roof top reservoir which is then gravity fed to faucets and tanks below in the house.

Jerry

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Author Topic: The self-filling siphon, and why can't it be done? (Read 63261 times)

Nabo00o

The self-filling siphon, and why can't it be done?

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infringer

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Nabo00o

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