Based off my experiments, the tungsten is slower giving off hydrogen gas compared to tungsten/carbide.

I would suggest you purchase tungsten/carbide instead.

Thanks for your interest.

Quote from: Paul-R on July 23, 2007, 03:59:12 PM

Quote from: ResinRat2 on July 23, 2007, 01:44:47 PM

Dr. Griffin popped in a couple of times to suggest a couple of experiments. Other than that he really hasn't said much. My guess is he is getting a kick out of our research.

He's years ahead of anything we are doing here now, that's for sure. We are still groping in the dark.

He needs to have a consistent attitude to patents and patenting which he has
done a fair amount of. Anything disclosed on this forum will block future patents
of such science to be taken out by anybody.
Paul.

So why are you telling me this? Is there something I am supposed to do about that?

No, except take saisfaction from the fact that the work you are doing has great
value by disclosing technology which could overwise be patented and have
everyone locked out of.

-

When you want to add something like that you need to consider how many watts of power it consumes. What would be the advantages of its use? Is it really needed?

Using part of the power output for zinc anode regeneration hurts right off the top. Anything else added only makes things less efficient.

Thanks for your input darc.

That's actually a good point Darc.

I know that all my experiments that were performed in the glass cells ended up with some type of precipitate on the bottom. Some much worse than others. Also, the electrolyte salts left residues along the fluid surface line as the water was being consumed. NaOH and KOH are sometimes hard to get off glass surfaces and other surfaces once they dry. There have been other experiments where I've electroplated small amounts of one metal on the other and what looked like the silver too.

Dingus Mungus' idea was to have a layer of conductive material that covers the bottom of the cell and is connected with the anode so that any precipitate would still be in electrical contact with the electrodes. That way its not just wasted and uselessly sitting on the bottom of the cell. The idea of using the ultra sonic waves to clean off the surfaces seems pretty good now that I've thought about it for a bit. This could get the residues loosened off metal and acrylic surfaces without needing to open the cell. Good thinking.

Well it all comes down to power consumption. We shall see how it all works out in the long term testing.

I know I've been experimenting with the aluminum/zinc angle quite a bit lately, and I have not had a great deal of luck using the aluminum. Initially it starts to regenerate the zinc electrode, but then I found that the entire zinc surface becomes covered with the zincates, and it stops the reaction.

I've also been using rotating zinc/aluminum electrodes to try and only partially regenerate each zinc electrode so it doesn't kill the reaction; but I found that even after the aluminum is removed the zincate plating continues. Then the cell begins to fill with precipitate as the hydrogen is produced. It's really strange. One cell became half full with precipitate and started to actually be overfilled with the water solution as the precipitate was formed. One almost overflowed before I dumped it.

I think the key here is to generate the oxygen and seperate it from the zinc oxide or zinc hydroxide compounds. That needs to be done more efficiently with electrical energy.

I will be doing more experiments along this angle, but my initial goal is to use two fuel cells. One higher voltage that the other. The smaller cell only produces about 0.9 volts (300mA) and is probably enough to do the zinc regeneration on its own. That way no fancy electronics would be needed.

So much to explore, so little time. I need a research lab and some technicians!!!! LOL!!!

Thanks for your interest everyone.

Hi Robert,

I will try to answer your questions:

First, I saw that you have a tank with two separate chambers (hydrogen and oxygen side). The patent only uses one chamber. Is there any particular reason you are separating the hydrogen and oxygen? Good question Robert, let me explain. In the patent you can see that the general trend is simply the production of hydrogen. This is where the emphasis lies. If all you are interested in is producing hydrogen then all you need is one chamber. The oxygen in the reaction combines with the zinc forming zinc oxides and hydroxides (in the basic NaOH cell) and does not come off as readily as the hydrogen. In this case the zinc is consumed and eventually depleted. The patent does mention that you can put a reverse current on the electrodes and regenerate the zinc. This will then give off the oxygen and replate the zinc on the zinc electrode; but when this is being done then no hydrogen is being produced. So the design of the cell in the patent produces either hydrogen OR oxygen. Not both in large quantities at the same time.

My cell is designed with two separate tungsten carbide electrodes and two separate zinc electrodes. The tungsten carbide electrodes in one chamber, and the zinc electrodes in the other. The idea is that a reverse current can be put on one T/C - Zinc pair of electrodes to regenerate the zinc and produce oxygen at the same time that the other T/C - zinc pair of electrodes is producing hydrogen. So my cell will produce hydrogen and oxygen at the same time. All this going on, I need to keep the oxygen from getting into the fuel cell, so I need to separate the chambers. The idea for this is that there will be no need for a period of time when the cell produces hydrogen and power from the fuel cell, then a period where it produces oxygen and no power from the fuel cell. It will be a constant output of power from the hydrogen, and a constant zinc regeneration at the same time. See how this will work? I would just switch the zinc electrode connections once per day so no single zinc electrode gets depleted. So it should be a constant runner. No separate regeneration time needed.

Second, if I was to build a cell too what would be the best design based on the experiences you have so far? I think it might be a good idea if you could supply everyone with a sort of standard design for the cell, so that in time we can compare results? I am still trying to work out the best plexiglass design. I am coming to the conclusion that the electrodes need to be in a verticle position (not horizontal like I have now). This is because I am getting gas trapped in the horizontal spaces and it is hurting my gas output. So I think a cell is best designed with the up and down length much greater than the width, with the chambers separated by a barrier that keeps the gases from mixing. The one I have now has a series of holes that form a U shape between the chambers; unfortunately I am still getting mixing of gases. I will draw a diagram soon to show you what I plan on doing next. It will be one big U shape, not a series of smaller U shapes like I have now. Other than that, the reactor design is still up in the air.

And last, I read your reaction medium isn a total of 100 ml right? I guess this is then mixed int the water that has to be consumed? How big is your cell or how much water/reaction medium is in it? My cell holds 400ml of total electrolyte solution. which is 80 grams NaOH, 80 grams KOH, 80ml of 20ppm Silver colloid, 40ml of 20ppm Magnesium Colloid, and enough Deionized or distilled water added to this mixture to give a total solution volume of 400ml.

Hope this is not too much newbie questions for you......anyway keep us posted on your progress and good luck with the research...it's well appreciated! Will do. Hope this helps. I will post the diagram soon of a probable improved cell, although I am still going to be using this present cell for my long term testing.