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Author Topic: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor  (Read 25829 times)

Offline ceres

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 12:32:36 PM »
Hello Walter,

My pleasure. Take your time. I am looking forward to it. I find it quite intriguing you have been at Leedskalnin's place! It may be no coincidence I ran into this Leedskalnin treatise on magnet current this week!

I forgot to stress an important point in Konrad Baecker's configuration. The iron cored coil is placed transversally, which is conceptually totally different from the many patents describing and ICE Internal Combustion Engine with permanent magnets in the piston and electromagnets on top of that.

This aspect is also what makes Baecker's configuration so promising. On the video I get the impression he needs some time to load the accumulator, which brings a lower torque on the mechanical side of the engine, but after this reloading the engine is in full swing again. I would love to have a dyno-meter on that engine in the whole process of running without accu loading and with accu loading to get an measured impression of the COP.

Ceres


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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2008, 11:00:27 PM »
Hi Ceres and all,
the Baecker motor did not havemuch torque,
when I was there about 20 years ago.

I did not follow up on him since then,
cause he first wanted to patent things and then
I got distracted with other things.

Well, it would be interesting to know, if he is still alive today.

Maybe I will try to give him a call again
and see, what he came up with later..

Well, at least the principle is very intersting and
I thought, I should post this old video of mine
and with todays permanent magnets this might
be an easy modification to an existing car engine.

If you combine this principle with the
carbon-arc experiments at the control points commutator, where you can get
get bigger current spikes back to the battery, you could
have a selfcharging battery when the motor runs
and only use up some graphite-copper contact points.


Regards, Stefan.

Offline dirt diggler

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2008, 01:10:57 AM »
Hello All. not sure if this is the right spot to post this or not, feel free to move it if there is a better place.
The idea of converting auto engines to magnetic power has always intrigued me. I believe I have found an engine design that would work better than others, maybe even to the point of running on permanent magnets only.
the engine is the world war 1 gnome rotary.  this engine has the cranckcase bolted solid to the front of the plane, and the radially mounted cylinders rotate around the fixed pistons. see here for animation:http://www.keveney.com/gnome.html

My thoughts are to have opposing magnets on the tops of the pistons and on the heads, then have the crank timed to have each piston repelling after top dead center.
let me know what you think ;D

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2008, 01:10:57 AM »
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Offline FredWalter

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2008, 04:04:38 AM »
Well, at least the principle is very intersting and I thought, I should post this old video of mine and with todays permanent magnets this might be an easy modification to an existing car engine.

Would either Flynn's parallel path technology, or the Hilden-Brand magnetic valve technology, help here?

Offline ceres

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2008, 03:30:16 PM »
@Stefan,

Sorry, I forgot to thank you. Thank you very much for starting this thread by giving this Baecker video from the eighties. No worries it seems to produce low torque or power. It's the approach and concept from whatever time and age which will be decisive in my opinion. Even a 12th century concept may be of interest. This is where historical research and analysis can really help to advance modern technology.

I think there possibly is in Baecker's adapted DKW engine a new concept for guiding flux at a moderate electrical energy cost, which opens horizon for a high COP. Another important aspect I find the longer way of interaction between piston magnet and cylinder magnet. This seems to be really an innovation by Baecker in comparison with other magnet motor concepts.

I hope Konrad Baecker is still alive and able to give his side of the story. On the video he appears to be in his fourties or fifties, maybe he is still alive and kicking in his seventies?! Maybe he has had an accident or just died of natural causes, anything is possible.

From the video it looks like the engine has not much torque as you can see the difference in speed of the pistons between unloaded condition and loaded by the alternator to recharge the battery. Still I would be curious for a dynotest.
Also, how much time could the engine run without battery recharging as compared to the time needed to charge the battery again? This kind of information could give a clue about the COP if I am not wrong?

Where can we find more information on this copper-graphite-plasma-arc process and commutator? Although of importance, the controller-aspect and the battery-loading aspect, the lower the torqueloss for recharging the battery the better it is, even then I find it first of all important to establish the quality of the principle or concept.
When there really was a COP > 1,00 in his case, using Ferrite Magnets, then Permanent Magnets could give a higher torque and higher power and maybe even higher COP.
One of the main questions for me is: are we able to detour the permanent magnets flux temporarily at the comparably same low electrical energy cost as in Baeckers Ferrite application?


@FredWalter,
You are damn right, one good way to see quality is to compare a new approach with other high quality approaches. Flynn as well as Hildenbrand would help here to see in what respect Baecker's approach is a new approach on its own. Baecker is doing something with a transversally placed iron cored coil within a bent permanent magnet. Totally different approach from Hildenbrand, at least that's my first feeling about it. In Hildenbrand's magnetic valve, the coil is behind the permanent magnet path, here the coil is within the permanent magnet, although creating a bridge between the permanent magnet's two polar legs.

What is surprising to me is the apparently low level of electrical energy needed to get the permanent magnet fluxes path changed temporarily. This is similar to Hildenbrand so it seems. Beware, we have no measurements, no data, just impressions from the video.

All in all it gives me the feeling some kind of extra magnetic energy could be coming in, triggered by the electric pulse, some anti-Lorentz-force-like balancing out of fluxes. I am not saying it is a Lorentzforce, I mean it is a process possibly similar to Lorentz-Lenz-law-responses, but then the other way around. This time it is adding - instead of counteracting like in the Lenz-case - extra flux to the flux being produced by the electrically energized iron cored coil, maybe because nature does for some reason or another not allow a flux difference between the two magnetic paths. The last thing is just an idea, some scientists use the word 'hypothesis' for it and start writing books about it. Nature seems to be balancing things out all the time. Once you switch on it produces a counter-force, once you switch off it produces a counter-counter-force, which is force again etc. etc.

The reason why some extra energy from somewhere I suppose must be coming in, because otherwise I do not understand and cannot explain why the flux from the end of the permanent magnets legs can be "sucked" away temporarily by a moderate electrical energy pulse in the bridging iron cored coil. I can imagine the upper part flux from the top of the permanent magnet can be forced to go through the iron cored coil bridge, but for the lower permanent magnet legs part, I do not see, how these fluxes can be led away temporarily, maybe through the coilbridge as well, maybe through the surrounding iron engine, I do not understand now, how exactly all this can be explained.
Main questions for me: what is happening in the energized situation with the flux paths? Why does magnetic saturation in the iron cored coil not prevent the total temporary absorption of cylinder head magnet flux?

Of course, an explanation is not necessary for building, experimenting and testing, but a good explanation might improve the experimental setup in advance and improve chances of an immediate success.

Ceres






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2008, 03:30:16 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2008, 03:54:52 PM »
I just tried to look up
the phone number from Konrad B?cker
in Rathausstrasse 36, 85757 Karlsfeld, Germany,
where his latest patent was issued from in 2005,
but there is no phone number listed in the current German online
directory, nor did I find his phone number in my old files...

So does anyone know the phone number of him,
please let me know
privately and I will give him a call.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan Hartmann.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2008, 04:24:04 PM »


What is surprising to me is the apparently low level of electrical energy needed to get the permanent magnet fluxes path changed temporarily. This is similar to Hildenbrand so it seems. Beware, we have no measurements, no data, just impressions from the video.


Hi ceres,
be sure to watch the video to the whole end.
There was a cut on the video at 23:37 min and the next day I went there again and you can see it in the last part of this video
from 23:37 minute on...
I connected an ampmeter , a voltmeter and my scope and the motor drew about 12 Volts x 15 to 17 amps average = about 200 Watts of input power.

I guess with the right coils and modern permanent magnets I could reduce this to around 10 to 20 Watts of input power only and
get much more mechanical power out of it.

Mr. B?cker did not have much knowledge of electronics and coil building and inductance and BackEMF effects at this time, so
he did design the coils very much with the wrong wire sizes, etc... so it did use up too much power...

Yes, it is a simular principle as the Hilden-Brandt valve design.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: I tied to call his patent attorny, but Mr. senior Fleuchaus was already not working anymore,
but I got another colleague and they will try to find his phone number in their files tommorow.

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2008, 04:24:04 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2008, 04:43:36 PM »
I just reached the other gentleman, who was with me during my visit and
he will also try to look up in his files for the phone number of Mr. B?cker.
So if we are lucky, I will soon call Mr. B?cker and follow this up.

Regardsm Stefan.

Offline ceres

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2008, 05:24:06 PM »
At dirt diggler,

The Gnome looks impressive, indeed the designer must have been a bit of a crazy man, yet, those are the ones to come up with new approaches.
As I wrote before, many patents exist applying instead of internal combustion a combination of permanent magnet power and magnet power from a pulsed iron cored coil, so in my view this is the basic principle we have to study, whether applied in the Gnome or in the conventional Otto engine does not really matter to me. The Gnome is adding mechanical complexity, not potential advantage over the basic Otto engine mechanism to replace combustion by ingenious electromagnetic trickery. Maybe I am wrong.

Question remains: which combination and configuration of electromagnet and permanent magnet in the ICE does produce a COP > 1,00 with a torque high enough to get the engine, car, boat, airplane whatever going.

@Stefan,
I promise to see the whole video before asking questions again.

How in a rough estimate does your 200 Watt reduction of input power to 20 Watt compare to the mechanical output of Baeckers engine? The alternator he uses maybe has an efficiency of 60%?? So, when we know how much torque at how much rpm is the case when a basic car alternator is running, an estimate can be made of the amount of mechanical power being consumed to recharge the battery apart from the fact that the engine is still running, so it has extra or surplus mechanical energy apparently.

As for me, I would be satisfied with an engine COP > 1,00 although not possessing strong a torque enough to drive a car, I would be happy to have this engine drive a generator. There's cars enough in the universe, I couldn't care less. Running an alternator to produce free electricity is satisfactory for me.

Regards, Ceres


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2008, 05:24:06 PM »
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Offline FredWalter

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2008, 11:53:57 PM »
Can this motor conversion be done with a single cylinder engine (say a lawn mower engine)?

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2008, 07:49:26 PM »
Hi All,
I visited about 20 years ago in around 1987/88 an inventor
living near Munich,Germany.

He was working on a great magnet motor.
At this time he was only having weak ferrite magnets,
but with todays Neodymn magnets this motor could
really work overunity, if it will be designed also with better coils.

I just uploaded the video I took at this time now to my google video account:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=368366283936115731


It is in German language, but just have a look at it.

This way, normal car motors can be converted to run on magnet power.

He is using Iron cores with an electromagnet inside the iron tube.
The piston magnet is sucked into the iron tube and when the electromagnet is
energized, the piston magnet is pushed out of the iron tube.

At the time when I was visiting, he was still driving the electromagnets
via contact points from a car battery.
It was using at this time around 12 Volts and 20 amps pulses to switch
the electromagnets.
But with a better electromagnet design ala Newman coil and
new very strong Neodymn magnets this could be powered much longer
and the sparks from the Newman coils could reacharge the batteries.

Then it could go overunity.

Regards, Stefan.
A battery is allways welcome to make things work ;D ;D !!! Why is it so that the only videos regarding running motors have a battery or similar power supply attached to it?

Vidar

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2008, 07:49:26 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2008, 08:02:52 PM »
Hello All. not sure if this is the right spot to post this or not, feel free to move it if there is a better place.
The idea of converting auto engines to magnetic power has always intrigued me. I believe I have found an engine design that would work better than others, maybe even to the point of running on permanent magnets only.
the engine is the world war 1 gnome rotary.  this engine has the cranckcase bolted solid to the front of the plane, and the radially mounted cylinders rotate around the fixed pistons. see here for animation:http://www.keveney.com/gnome.html

My thoughts are to have opposing magnets on the tops of the pistons and on the heads, then have the crank timed to have each piston repelling after top dead center.
let me know what you think ;D
The drawback with any magnet motor on this planet, or in the universe for that matter, is that the magnets cannot be turned on and off on demand. You MUST spend energy to do this. Don't forget that you must use energy to position the magnets in repel mode - just as much energy you get out when the magnets repels over the same distance.
 Ther is no option to guide the magnetism away with iron parts. This require also the same amount of energy as you get out at the end. But still I'm not surprised if anyone still is trying to make a magnet motor.

Vidar

Offline dieter

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2008, 05:01:04 AM »
If it was easy then it probably would be boring. It's a fascinating challenge. Just like the "Egg of Columbus" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_of_Columbus )

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2008, 04:01:16 PM »
If it was easy then it probably would be boring. It's a fascinating challenge. Just like the "Egg of Columbus" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_of_Columbus )
Where the air bubble is you can crack the egg a bit without messing all over the place. Then it stands by itself... or attach magnets to it ;D

Vidar

Offline Discworld

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Re: Konrad Baecker Magnet motor converted from a DKW car motor
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2008, 10:38:05 AM »
IMHO this attempt is nonsense, there is no point for using a piston engine concept for a magnet-motor.
As we all know the efficiency of piston-engines is horrible.If you can interrupt a magnetic field on a piston
type engine you can do that also on a radial type. But that actually is the point where all the attempts stumble.
There is no material blocking a magnetic field while being not magnetic itself.
Having such a material would probably make 80% of the attemps working, no matter how they are constructed.

The sad thing is, that inefficient attempts and
i.e. words like "360000 gauss" and putting the engine with a v-belt on a generator (OMG!) as in the perendev patent
make conventional scientists laugh at the scene while the work on overunity devices get more noncredible with every attempt.

The good thing about Baecker is, that he doesn?t claim to know what he is doing. A lot of people in the scene
do but don?t know a crumble of cake about what they are doing.

Baecker might have made some progress but I hope he didn?t continue with that piston-nonsense. ;-)

 

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