Author Topic: Stubblefield coils (bifilar) and speculations (Read 411040 times)

jeanna · « **Reply #975 on:** August 07, 2009, 04:52:51 AM »

Quote from: dllabarre on August 07, 2009, 03:49:39 AM

The meter is supposed to be able to read 5Hz to 10mHz. It just kept bouncing around between low Hz numbers to kHz numbers.

Don,
But that is right!
Your meter is reading the pulsing that my scope is showing.
Look at the right hand side of the meter screen and it will say what you are seeing. I see from 2hx to 5Mhz depending...

I think this explains what my scope is picking up,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE

and it sounds to me like you're seeing the same thing.
I think if you watch my video with this in mind, it might make you feel better about all that jumping...

It is real.

yeay!

jeanna

Pirate88179 · « **Reply #976 on:** August 07, 2009, 05:21:45 AM »

Quote from: dllabarre on August 07, 2009, 03:49:39 AM

The meter is supposed to be able to read 5Hz to 10mHz. It just kept bouncing around between low Hz numbers to kHz numbers.

That website states my inclination is 68 degrees 45'.
Does that mean i have to lower the bottom of my + northern rod 68 degrees lower then the bottom of my - southern rod?
But at what distance between the rods? 45'?
Their FAQ help isn't very helpful

DonL

Don:

First, that site has nothing to do with what we are doing other than it tells you info you need to know about your area. It will not calculate the distance needed between your electrodes. This is pretty easy but there are variables and if you change one variable it alters everything. I started (I did this the easy way as I hate trig) with my south electrode and planted that to a reasonable depth. After looking up my local info on that site, I could see that for my electrode angle (measured from the bottom of one electrode to the bottom of the other) to be close to my dip angle I needed to put my north electrode X deep at X distance. I would have to draw it out but I believe the further apart your electrodes are the greater your angle gets if the depths remain constant. If you put this on paper you will see what I mean. Some of the parameters you are stuck with like possibly, the length of your electrodes, and for sure, the dip angle of your area, and maybe if you are like me, not much space to work with. So, you can vary the other parameters and hopefully get something close.

Bill

oscar · « **Reply #977 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:24:37 AM »

Hi dllabarre
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp

Quote from: dllabarre on August 07, 2009, 03:49:39 AM

...That website states my inclination is 68 degrees 45'.
Does that mean i have to lower the bottom of my + northern rod 68 degrees lower then the bottom of my - southern rod?

Hi dllabarre,
yes, this is how I understand it.

I just looked up what inclination the website would give for my place (in Europe). It came up with 60Â°.

I did not expect such a high value. Here an example for what that means (in my understanding):
With electrodes spaced 1 foot apart from each other, the one in the north would have to be buried more than 1 foot deeper than the south electrode.

I then calculated it to get the exact value.
tan(60Â°) = 1.7
So for 1 foot distance between the two, the north one would have to be 1.7 foot deeper than the south one.

If the electrodes are 2 feet apart, the north one would need to be buried twice that deeper, which is 2*1.7 = 3.4 feet.

Calculated with the ca. 68Â° inclination at your place I get:
tan(68Â°)
which means 2.5 feet down for every foot distance on the surface.

That seems really drastic, but you can see that the "Vertical Component" stated by the website, is much higher than the "Horizontal Intensity".

Pirate88179 · « **Reply #978 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:49:40 AM »

Oscar:

Thank you. Nice job. You are obviously much better at trig than I am, which is pretty easy to do, ha ha.

Just for the heck of it, what is your magnetic deviation from true north over there?

Thanks again.

Bill

sm0ky2 · « **Reply #979 on:** August 07, 2009, 08:06:37 AM »

hi guys,

i used Bill's cheat-sheet, on "how to make an NS coil"
[ if i had a time machine i would have gone back to get some cotton-coated wire....]

but im a little too lazy (and time deprived) to read through 95+ pages right now.....

so umm.... How do i use this thing?? what are we 'supposed to do' with it?
i have 4 leads comming out of it. 2 copper + 2 steel.

dllabarre · « **Reply #980 on:** August 07, 2009, 01:43:17 PM »

Thank you Pirate (Bill), Jeanna and Oscar for confirming these issues.

I was concerned because the dip was so deep from 1 eletrode to the other.

DonL

oscar · « **Reply #981 on:** August 07, 2009, 06:24:26 PM »

Quote from: Pirate88179 on August 07, 2009, 07:49:40 AM

....magnetic deviation from true north over there?

Declination given for my place is 2Â° 23'
(pos. value)

oscar · « **Reply #982 on:** August 07, 2009, 06:31:36 PM »

Quote from: sm0ky2 on August 07, 2009, 08:06:37 AM

....but im a little too lazy (and time deprived) to read through 95+ pages right now.....

Please sm0ky2,
do yourself a favour,
just need to read 2 pages (the patent)
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=600457A&KC=A&FT=D&date=&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

I also hate reading patents, but it's really written in a straightforward way.
Just 2 pages of text.
You won't regret it.

jeanna · « **Reply #983 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:06:22 PM »

Quote from: sm0ky2 on August 07, 2009, 08:06:37 AM

hi guys,
....
so umm.... How do i use this thing?? what are we 'supposed to do' with it?
i have 4 leads coming out of it. 2 copper + 2 steel.

Hi sm0ky2,
I agree with oscar. Just read the patent. Our posts will probably not help much.
We ended up with 2 wires 4 ends (hmm, where have I heard this before?

) all right, but this was just the primary of this complex inductor coil. The secondary which must have many turns to be longer than the primary is something almost nobody made.
According to the patent, it was the secondary that gave you the output.

Lately, I have been reporting earth probes with 2 of these at either end, and I am not even using them as the patent describes. I am again just using the primary.
I think the first real clue I got was when my NS coil picked up radiant energy coming off the joule thief. That time I was looking at the secondary output.

Oh and also, I made one that was built the same but with plastic coated tele - bell wire instead of silk or cotton. I called it the nongalvanic one. It works really well as an inductor or joule thief coil. It also picks up the radiant emanations from joule thief

But again, do read the patent. It is beautifully written and easy enough to follow.

jeanna

jeanna · « **Reply #984 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:18:17 PM »

Quote from: oscar on August 07, 2009, 07:24:37 AM

...

That seems really drastic, but you can see that the "Vertical Component" stated by the website, is much higher than the "Horizontal Intensity".

Thanks oscar,
That is a nice clear explanation.

Here is my question.

What is so special about the surface of the ground in your /anyone's back yard?

I assume the hills are a normal part of the ground, so why not build a south level 1.6ft higher than the north as though it were a natural hill?
If you lived on the north slope of a hill you could find that exact angle from the theoretical vertical line , or is it line to the sun on our tipped axis?
I think it is the latter, and I suspect it does not need to be literally buried so deep. I suspect that an earth mound on the south for me is enough.
I could try this. My neighbors already gave up on me a while ago.

Thanks,

jeanna

Pirate88179 · « **Reply #985 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:25:38 PM »

Jeanna:

First, let me say that I don't really know. My guess would be that the telluric/magnetic currents run beneath the surface at a given level so if you put a probe on a hilltop and another in a valley, that would not be the same as compensating for the dip angle in my opinion. It is not about elevation (again, in my opinion) but the relationship between the electrode bottoms and the currents under the surface. I don't think the distance above the surface would count.

But, once again, only one way to really know...right? I have no land here or I would try it out. My little garden area is flat.

Bill

sm0ky2 · « **Reply #986 on:** August 07, 2009, 08:13:43 PM »

ok well, the coil by itself produces a potential of approx. 0.5v
with almost no measurable current, as to be expected from any steel / copper combo in open air...

the patent does say to use a secondary,
and also to wet the cell.

i guess my question is,. do i connect the 2 primary wires together at the ends? or what do i do with those??

im preparing to coil the secondary of 350 turns,
bifilar primary is approx 50 turns (100 in all)

but im unsure of what to do with the 4 wire ends..
the patent is not clear on that, it says to connect at least one end, but what of the other?

Pirate88179 · « **Reply #987 on:** August 07, 2009, 08:33:17 PM »

Smokey:

If you wound and insulated that coil correctly, and it sounds as if you did, stick it in your sink and let the air bubbles stop coming out, takes about a minute or so. Pull it out and check the mA's. Make sure you are on a way higher scale than you think you could ever get...I lost 3 fuses this way before I realized what was happening. My guess is that your mA's will be between 18 and 40, but this is just a guess.

As to where the wires go...I would not connect copper to iron on either end as this will read as a short. It has been a while but I tested for volts and amps all the combinations I could think of like copper one end to iron wire on the other, copper on one end to core of the other, (my best readings) etc.

I never added much of a secondary to any of mine so I can't help there but, it would be cool to see what your primary puts out before adding the secondary, in case that makes it drop or increase somehow.

Bill

jeanna · « **Reply #988 on:** August 07, 2009, 09:00:50 PM »

Quote from: sm0ky2 on August 07, 2009, 08:13:43 PM

ok well, the coil by itself produces a potential of approx. 0.5v
with almost no measurable current, as to be expected from any steel / copper combo in open air...

the patent does say to use a secondary,
and also to wet the cell.

i guess my question is,. do i connect the 2 primary wires together at the ends? or what do i do with those??

im preparing to coil the secondary of 350 turns,
bifilar primary is approx 50 turns (100 in all)

but im unsure of what to do with the 4 wire ends..
the patent is not clear on that, it says to connect at least one end, but what of the other?

Yes Sm0ky2,
The simple answer is we never found out.

You are correct the volts will never go higher than 0.5 and after you do as Bill says and you see the mA that is also the maximum you will see.
As I recall, it goes down quickly after this and even when you put it into the ground.

He was a little cagey about how to connect the wires, and we never did find an answer. In the patent he indicated that you would put a load between the iron and copper wires, but he was forced to call it a battery by the patent office, and I suspect that this was part of completing that requirement.

I realized we COULD get somewhere by connecting the wires. BUT NOT when it is connected or tested against itself.

I used one as the toroid in a basic joule thief circuit and got basic good joule thief results. I will look them up because they were the highest result I had ever achieved from a NS generator.

I bought an ignition coil 2 weeks ago and last week I persisted in a question about the fact that the primary and secondary are connected in that. I did get my answer, but it was lost on many people why I was so pushy about this inquiry.
In an ignition coil the primary and secondary are wound like this if you connect the ends that are the last ones out. He called these the 5,6 so I will from now on too.

If you connect the 5,6 wires, you get a center tapped bifilar coil with 2 similar lengths, but 2 different resistances and a magnetic component in the wire as well as in the core.
I once even wound a 22T secondary around one of these wires and saw many mvolts there when tested against the center bolt in the ground-- I think. I was confused about this and let it rest for a year, but it is an important part of what happens.

THAT was the Radiant Coil - the one that produced the scope measurements of 106mV from the radiant stuff from a joule thief. The scope was connected across the 200Turn real secondary wires. When I turned on the joule thief, and the scope got so active without touching the joule thief to the NSCoil.

Lots os questions remain.

thank you for doing this,

jeanna

oops edit add
I am using this connection in the tests I am reporting here.
I connect the 5,6 on the NS coil and connect that to the zinc probe. And I do the same thing at the north end to the carbon probe. It is the twisted 5,6 connected to the earth probes on one or both ends that is giving me the interesting scope results. You will not see this on a DMM. I have been showing the DMM results along with the scope results.

jeanna
the rain stopped me but I can show the dmm and one scope shot from these as I described today.

sm0ky2 · « **Reply #989 on:** August 07, 2009, 10:32:01 PM »

Thank you Jeanna & Bill.

so Bill, just to be clear on what you're saying here...
(im going to call the ends of the core "top" and "bottom", because mine is oriented vertically, though NS said horizontally does not affect operation)

i leave the bottom ends "open", and measure across the top wires, while its wet??

@ Jeanna,
about the inclination, the SUN has little to do with this, i believe our magnetic field is a direct result of the spinning molten core deep inside the earth, causing an electro-magnetic induction.
This is the 'source' of the tri-phase signal we are picking up on our scopes with the EB data logging experiments.

were it caused by the sun, the "magnetic north" and resulting localized inclination of the field would change drastically throughout our annual orbit around the sun, and even would be somewhat noticible with day/night. Thus rendering our compasses useless.
-------------------------------------------------------------

my intuition tells me to send the pulsing DC from my EB-JT circuit across the steel wire of the stubblefield coil, and measure current through the copper... i'll definately get some data from that arrangement.

but im still puzzled as to how NS actually hooked up these 4 wires. or if he left 2 of them "open", or possibly sunk into the ground....

the ground here in kansas reads out at about 800KOhms anywhere between 1 inch and 7-feet. i havent tested further distances yet.

im also open to the possibility that NS tied the ends of each wire together, copper+copper and steel+steel. so i will experiment with that as well and post my results.

it may be important to mention that my "steel wire" is actually galvanized, as that was all that was available to me at the time.
this may or may not make a difference,..

News:

User Menu