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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: Pirate88179 on April 10, 2008, 03:43:54 AM
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I started this topic so we could continue to branch off into other (related?) research without slowing down the progress in the Earth Battery Experiments thread. This topic, hopefully, will compliment the work being done over there. I will try to repost some of the things being worked on to get up to speed.
Bill
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@ All:
What I would like to see us do over here is to research why were are getting power out of these cells. Maybe, if once we know why, we can take the steps required to improve the output. Possibly a few changes in wire size, coil sizes, insulation, might help us to increase the ma's output.
I will try to post some pictures of my latest coils for the newer people that have not seen them. Thanks.
Bill
This is my larger primary coil: 2 windings of bare iron wire and bare copper wire insulated by cotton material from the iron core, and cotton string between the wires. Output: .82 vdc and 19mA.
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19 mA sounds good.
Can you please post the sizes of this coil and how you hooked this up
to get this 19 mA current out of it ?
Many thanks.
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OK Bill, I will throw in a pic of NS batteries numbers 10 and 11
#11 is in front. Can you see 19.8mA? Voltage so far is around 850mvdc.
This is the one still in progress with the rest of the wire in the packages on the floor. BTW it is made over a 3/4 inch pipe.
The one above is #10. Can you see the small secondary on it? I will give a full report later on these.
I made both using 24 gauge wire cu and zn coated steel. You can see the cloth liner in between layers. I am actually sewing the ends around the wires at the turn around. It is very secure against shorts. thanks Chad!
jeanna
maybe the second pic is bigger
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I guess sense we have a place just for speculating I will share a bit about my speculations .
My basic theory is that the copper and iron react to magnetic fields at different rates .
I wanted a way to check a few variables relatively quickly
It is kind of hard to rewind a coil over and over to check different insulation or metal combinations
so I made a capacitor
So far I have only checked cotton for the insulation ....
So far I am trying to see what I can get dry ..........non galvanomic ............but I can switch to wet ;later if needed .
One of my theorys was that aluminum might be a good metal for a battery . It would not have been available to Stubblfield .
SO far it looks like copper / iron is still best .
What I am calling iron is really galvinised steal flashing ........close as I could find to iron .
Iron / copper / cotton .580 V
Aluminum / iron / cotton .045 V
Aluminum / copper / cotton .414 V
none of them had any power ...... Iron / copper was the only one that registered any at all with .001 mA
Cotton makes a VERY poor capacitor insulation . I can charge it up with about 20 V and half the charge is gone within a second or so .
I am thinking of testing them with a plastic insulator next ......mostly to see how high the voltage will go if the current is not leaking through the insulator
gary
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@ Gary:
See? I think you are on the right track here. Thinking about what Stubblefield had available to him and now, what we have. What I mean is if we now have available some things he didn't even dream of, it does not mean that they are better, or worse...it means we have to find out. Like I said earlier, I want to know how this power is generated (if possible) and then we can change stuff to maximize the "effect". I'm all ears. Maybe we will find out that if we use a wire made up of something not available to NS then, it will be much better. Supercaps? NS did not have access to them. This is going to be interesting.
Jeanna:
Good going! You are getting some good power there! (Nice pics) Let me see if my math is correct now.....850 mvdc=.85 v. A very good number! 19.8 mA is as good (or better) than what I am getting! I think we are on the right track here. This is gonna be fun.
Bill
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One of the things that my theory is about all the magnetic fields should charge the iron to a slightly more than the copper ........this should cause a small flow of current from the iron to the copper with each cycle .
So far I have not found any AC in my cap .......at least not using both meter leads .
I do get AC readings with my meter using just 1 lead ...... I don't know if this is a quirk of my cap or my meter .
Aluminum / iron / cotton Aluminum .011 V Iron .014 V
Aluminum /copper /cotton Aluminum .030 V copper .015 V
I had already rebuilt my cap with different plates when I started recording these so I don't have any reading for copper /iron but they were higher if I remember right .
gary
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Gary:
I agree. When we discussed about galvanic action earlier, the only thing that does not fit is the destruction of one of the metals involved. So, possibly this is a "sort" of galvanic action that is not destructive yet produces energy due to the differences in the copper and iron. I am not speaking like I know because I don't. That's what this topic is for....exploration into the unknown. Later, I will post more about my digital meter and the ac. I will tell you what scale I am on, etc.
Bill
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@ Stefan:
First, my 19mA is not near the highest seen here on ou.com for this type of coil. Jeanna is getting a little better than that, and someone, I can't recall, was getting around 80 mA's. (much larger coil) The size of the coil in the photo was (I am going to do this in metric for you Stefan) 30.5 cm long (12") x 2 cm diameter (almost an inch). This has two layers of windings of bare copper and iron wire. (about 30 feet of each) This thing gives off energy when dry! It is much higher when wet but it will continue to produce energy when just sitting there. I will produce another video featuring this new coil set-up soon. To hook it up, in the begining, I just measured between the copper and iron wire to get my readings. Now, for some unknown reason, I have to measure between the iron wire and the iron core to get this same readings. It is almost as if the polarity has shifted from being both wet and dry.
Bill
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so I made a capacitor
So far I have only checked cotton for the insulation ....
So far I am trying to see what I can get dry ..........non galvanomic ............but I can switch to wet ;later if needed .
Cotton makes a VERY poor capacitor insulation . I can charge it up with about 20 V and half the charge is gone within a second or so .
I am thinking of testing them with a plastic insulator next gary
Gary,
One of my plans in the beginning of my work with the NS coil was to copy what NS did as closely as possible. I wondered out loud what the cloth would be since NS did not specify. Hans told me that he has had his hands on many insulated wires from that time and the cloth they used was silk. Now, silk has always been very expensive and cotton has been cheap since the late 1700 maybe mid 1800's but it was always cheaper than silk. I figure the electric guys would not have used silk unless it worked better.
So, my first 3 coils were lined and wrapped with silk cloth.
The reason my recent coils have been putting out is that I have been using cotton. As soon as I switched the readings went up to where everyone else's were.
Silk is much thinner, and it flies up in my face when I tear a strip it is so filled with static and therefore a good dielectric, but it just does not hold the water that cotton does. Not only does the cotton hold more water, it absorbs it from the air.
So, I would like to see your capacitance test done with silk, since there may still be a reason to switch back to it.
jeanna
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Gary:
I agree. When we discussed about galvanic action earlier, the only thing that does not fit is the destruction of one of the metals involved. So, possibly this is a "sort" of galvanic action that is not destructive yet produces energy due to the differences in the copper and iron. I am not speaking like I know because I don't. That's what this topic is for....exploration into the unknown. Later, I will post more about my digital meter and the ac. I will tell you what scale I am on, etc.
Bill
Bill my theory is that it is not galvanomic but magnetic
This theory started when I was reading the TPU thread someone was trying to explain that magnetic fields are attracted to iron
From what I saw the conversation didn't go very well .......but it kind of stuck with me .
If my theory is right ........each cycle the iron should develop a slightly higher change than the copper ....
The difference in charge it very small ....... of course raising the power of the magnetic field would make it alot easier to get a useful amount of power .......but I am looking for a non powered system at the moment .
I have another theory for step 2 if I can get more than just a trickle of power out of this ..
gary
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Now, for some unknown reason, I have to measure between the iron wire and the iron core to get this same readings. It is almost as if the polarity has shifted from being both wet and dry.
Bill
ooo now that is very interesting. My first coils which did not show much across the wires did something much better when I shorted them to the iron core.
I will have to re read my notes to see if it is worth reporting on it.
jeanna
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Gary:
Well, with my engineering background I have to say that I always think about scalability. If I have a working gravity wheel (ala Bessler) that is 6" in diameter and only puts out a very slight amount of power, I instantly start thinking of a Ferris wheel sized device. So, the small amount of energy here at this time does not thrill me, or concern me. What does thrill me, and no one ever taught me in College, or anywhere else, is that this energy (small as it is at the moment) is FREE and continues to be produced. That to me is something. That is what got me hooked into this with Joe's first post. Stick some rods in the earth...get power. It is incredible. I agree it is magnetics and possibly other things not understood. What I think I have with my coil is a battery that (small as its output is at the moment) keeps putting out and may never die. This is incredible to me and add to that, NS did this at the turn of the century and we are now just looking back into it? My tag line on my profile is "Attempting to know the unknown" which has never been more relevant than it is right now.
Bill
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So, I would like to see your capacitance test done with silk, since there may still be a reason to switch back to it.
I will check and see how much silk will cost .
not sure if the width is the same .......but it took a full 2 yards of canvas for my cotton insulation .
I am not sure that it will hold a charge better than cotton ...........but if it doesn't cost to much it is worth testing .
gary
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Gary:
Well, with my engineering background I have to say that I always think about scalability. If I have a working gravity wheel (ala Bessler) that is 6" in diameter and only puts out a very slight amount of power, I instantly start thinking of a Ferris wheel sized device. So, the small amount of energy here at this time does not thrill me, or concern me. What does thrill me, and no one ever taught me in College, or anywhere else, is that this energy (small as it is at the moment) is FREE and continues to be produced. That to me is something. That is what got me hooked into this with Joe's first post. Stick some rods in the earth...get power. It is incredible. I agree it is magnetics and possibly other things not understood. What I think I have with my coil is a battery that (small as its output is at the moment) keeps putting out and may never die. This is incredible to me and add to that, NS did this at the turn of the century and we are now just looking back into it? My tag line on my profile is "Attempting to know the unknown" which has never been more relevant than it is right now.
Bill
Bill
I would think that any galvanomic reaction would some day wear out .............I do agree that it will take a long time .
I looked at alot of stuff on this site before I decided to see what I could do with earth batterys
A hobby of mine has always been inventing mechanical things ........ yes most things can be scaled up ..........but it is not always practical
I don't spend alot of time with gravity wheels and stuff like that because of how big and expensive it would be to make a good amount of power.
We arn't getting much power yet .............but we are still taking the first steps . I think there are alot of ' tricks ' that can be used .
I think there is alot of potential in earth batterys .
I also think that alot of that potental can be unlocked by following a few simple steps ........think observe experment varify .
another big plus ........no transistors or tubes are needed
gary
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If I don't get anything else from these tests I have been doing ..... I think it will allow me to make a " extra " layer for making power with a earth battery .
Using flashing ....... I think they have 8 in steal flashing ........ I am thinking of rolling the layers into a roll ......... and using it as a core . ..........it should work almost the same as a solid core ...........but the magnetic field in the center of the coil should be very strong ........it may provide a reasonable voltage with out being real big .
gary
Edit ...... of course I am assuming we will find other ways to get some power out of the earth batterys ......otherwise we won't have enough power to make a strong magnetic field
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If my theory is right ........each cycle the iron should develop a slightly higher change than the copper ....
The difference in charge it very small ....... of course raising the power of the magnetic field would make it alot easier to get a useful amount of power .......but I am looking for a non powered system at the moment .
gary
I have been wondering why my multimeter takes so long to come to the final reading of the voltage and particularly, the amperage.
I wonder if it is literally growing. If there is a known reason for this phenomenon I will appreciate hearing it before I do tests on it.
try this site for silk.
http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1_2 (http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1_2)
that page otta take you to a good list of choices.
6mm or 5mm undyed are less than $5/yd. and the yd is 45 " wide. They are in california, I think.
It is where the silk I used came from.
jeanna
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If my theory is right ........each cycle the iron should develop a slightly higher change than the copper ....
The difference in charge it very small ....... of course raising the power of the magnetic field would make it alot easier to get a useful amount of power .......but I am looking for a non powered system at the moment .
gary
I have been wondering why my multimeter takes so long to come to the final reading of the voltage and particularly, the amperage.
I wonder if it is literally growing. If there is a known reason for this phenomenon I will appreciate hearing it before I do tests on it.
try this site for silk.
http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1_2 (http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1_2)
that page otta take you to a good list of choices.
6mm or 5mm undyed are less than $5/yd. and the yd is 45 " wide. They are in california, I think.
It is where the silk I used came from.
jeanna
Jeanna
I have no experience with fabrics like this ....... habotia , china.,paj ? ? ?
What kind did you use?
Or what would you recomend?
gary
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Gary,
I thought what I bought (6 years ago) was china silk. It is just a plainweave. (over under over under) I am pretty sure haboutai is Japanese for the same thing, and therefore my guess is that paj is Indian for it too.
Since they are all cheap, get whichever you want.. the mm means momme pronounced "mommy" and has to do with the thickness of the thread. Really any of them will do.
I would stay away from dyed fabric of any kind. Fabric dyes attach to metal ions in the fiber and we don't want to be any more confused than we need to be. There is plenty of time to add a dye that changes its color with the addition of cu and moves to a different color when influenced by fe. We could use that to tell us something if we need it - later.
Can you tell, I have never had a kitchen that wasn't more honestly a lab? ;)
jeanna
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@ All:
This is an older photo of my iron/magnesium/copper wire cell that I made a while back. With this cell buried outside in my garden, I was able to get the mA's up from my multiple electrodes from like 2 to 9. It is just 2 iron spikes (zinc coated) and three magnesium fire starter blocks, and bare copper wire wrapped around the spike cores. I just wanted to post this here for the newer folks.
Bill
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Hi all I had two rods in the earth for about a week now. When I first had them in the earth I was getting like .377 vdc and .005 ma. This was the 12? (305 mm) long by ? ? (6.35mm) wide copper pipe north about 7? in the earth and a aluminum 8? (203 mm) long by ? ? (6.35 mm) wide spike south also about 7? in the earth. I switch from aluminum to steel (about the same size) because it seem when I pump the steel in and out of the earth it kept its built up charge for a longer time than the aluminum. I tap my two fingers over the steel spike to simulate vibrating the spike to see if it would increase the power of the rods. Sad to say it did not; it looks like only pumping it in and out of the earth will do that. Now just sitting in the earth it is up to .950 vdc and .180 ma. I think its like what Stubblefield said the longer you have them in the earth the better it becomes at tapping the power. Be it the rods or his coil.
@Jeanna thank you for the list I will try to get some Carbon and Magnesium as soon as possible.
@ All I was thinking if we hook the rods in series they short each other out, but if we hook each pair of rods to their own super cap and hook each super cap in series, we might be able to get unlimited useable energy once we have enough pairs of rods and super caps. As I said before I know next to nothing about electronics, so maybe a set up like this might not be able to work but for now I don?t see why not.
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@ kevolts:
Supercaps to the individual cells and then hook them in series......that never crossed my mind. It just might work! The coils don't seem to have a problem with series but the electrodes did in my experiments. I see what you are saying and that is really worth a try. Great idea. I know more about electronics today than I did yesterday, but not as much as I will tomorrow. I too am learning as we go here.
Bill
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@Jeanna thank you for the list I will try to get some Carbon and Magnesium as soon as possible.
Bill's the expert on that one.
@ All I was thinking if we hook the rods in series they short each other out, but if we hook each pair of rods to their own super cap and hook each super cap in series, we might be able to get unlimited useable energy once we have enough pairs of rods and super caps. As I said before I know next to nothing about electronics, so maybe a set up like this might not be able to work but for now I don?t see why not.
It is interesting, I did this sort of thing -but different-the other day.
Here is how it worked. - (Inside on the table)
I hooked 2 supercaps in parallel to each other right on the 5,6 wires. The 5 cu is the positive. I kept them on for a few minutes because supercaps fill and empty slowly, so the 2 caps were filled to about 70% of the voltage of the coil. but there were 2 of them. both filled equally. So, each cap had .570vdc in it. That is still too little to do much.
Then I hooked them in series.
They did not turn the cd motor I have so I tried to check out the amperage, but that just drained them out. (That is only because of the way the amps are perceived by the meter.)
Although they did not make the motor turn, the little bit of foil that is stuck on the spindle like a propellor jumped, which is exactly what it does when there is almost enough juice!!
I will continue with this. It is a good idea, I think. At least a good idea for learning stuff. ;)
jeanna
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Are you guys using bifilar coils as in two wires wrapped next to each other or as in one wire wrapped around a rod?
Bifilar coils with two wires and it's cancelling action is claimed to be the missing link between the electric,magnetic and gravity field.
Many man in the past have written about things loosing weight in bifilar setups.
M.
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Are you guys using bifilar coils as in two wires wrapped next to each other or as in one wire wrapped around a rod?
Bifilar coils with two wires and it's cancelling action is claimed to be the missing link between the electric,magnetic and gravity field.
Many man in the past have written about things loosing weight in bifilar setups.
M.
marco
The Stubblefield earth battery that we are trying to figure out is 2 wires , ( one copper one iron) wound together around an iron core .
There is a copper sencondary then wound around the bifilar windings .
gary
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@ All I was thinking if we hook the rods in series they short each other out, but if we hook each pair of rods to their own super cap and hook each super cap in series, we might be able to get unlimited useable energy once we have enough pairs of rods and super caps. As I said before I know next to nothing about electronics, so maybe a set up like this might not be able to work but for now I don?t see why not.
@ kevolts:
Supercaps to the individual cells and then hook them in series......that never crossed my mind. It just might work! The coils don't seem to have a problem with series but the electrodes did in my experiments. I see what you are saying and that is really worth a try. Great idea. I know more about electronics today than I did yesterday, but not as much as I will tomorrow. I too am learning as we go here.
Bill
I remember reading somehere that the rods usually short themselves out if they are close together. It was suggested that there is some kind of vortex action going on .......and that each rod should be at least 6 feet apart
gary
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@ Gary:
My multiple electrodes are a little over 6 feet apart and I still could not get a successful series test. I think that is an interesting concept about using the super caps and then hooking them in series. As soon as I can obtain some more caps, I will give it a try. Our bifilar coils do not appear to have the same problems from what I have seen so far.
I keep saying this but I am amazed that both my electrode set-up and my coils are still putting out energy for free.
@marco:
Yes, as Gary said, bifilar. The wires are insulated from the iron core with cotton and also they are insulated from each other, and each layer of windings with cotton as well. When dry, they put out a small amount of electricity just sitting there. When wet, they put out a lot more voltage and power. (still a relatively small amount)
Bill
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Many man in the past have written about things loosing weight in bifilar setups.
M.
Marco,
Do you have any references for this particular bifilar use?
Or are they not in english?
jeanna
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note I am way far behind you all. I am stuck on my E-cell. and until i can get the voltage i want, i don't want to move on. i have tested many different kinds of metal in earth. no luck finding what i am looking for.
so i switched to water cells. what i found was just touching water with either my copper or zink rod produced a voltage. and almost the total amount. it was higher when they were all the way in my jar but not much higher. the problem i had in series was i would loose amps the higher the voltage got. i had my cells up to 7.96 volts but only had .15 mamps. using water only. so i tried a cap in series and wish i had used more then 2 cells. what i found was the cap charged the zink with positive voltage. so now the minus was plus and the plus was plus. very little voltage and no gain.
does any one think i should try may be 6 cell in series with caps
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note I am way far behind you all. I am stuck on my E-cell. and until i can get the voltage i want, i don't want to move on. i have tested many different kinds of metal in earth. no luck finding what i am looking for.
so i switched to water cells. what i found was just touching water with either my copper or zink rod produced a voltage. and almost the total amount. it was higher when they were all the way in my jar but not much higher. the problem i had in series was i would loose amps the higher the voltage got. i had my cells up to 7.96 volts but only had .15 mamps. using water only. so i tried a cap in series and wish i had used more then 2 cells. what i found was the cap charged the zink with positive voltage. so now the minus was plus and the plus was plus. very little voltage and no gain.
does any one think i should try may be 6 cell in series with caps
Pardon
What is your E-cell like?
I believe that stubblefield was working with more than galvanic reactions . I am looking for similarity's between the earth battery and radiant energy receivers .
gary
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Just thought I would put an idea out there and see if anyone else has any ideas on it .
here is a URL for a Radiant energy collector .
http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/
Figure 8 about 2/3 of the way down is a simplified drawing of the basic collector .
I was wondering about replacing the magnet / coil set up on each end with something like an earth battery .
The core would act as the magnet .....
Figure 4 is the original rectifier / amplifier . ...... the coil part may be practical today .....but the rectifier is an early
version of a mercury vapor light . ....... according to what I read on the web these lamps may have as much as several pounds of mercury in them ...... probably not very practical to use today .
I was thinking of using a coil ....... with a secondary with lots of windings ........
The idea is to boost the voltage enough to overcome the voltage drop in a modern diode
Come to think about it ......maybe the right configuration would be to put 3 bifilar windings on one iron rod .
( Leave a space in between the coils .)
Put a nice big secondary on the middle coil ..... diode bridge optional depending on how you want to use the power .
It would be interesting to see if this would work better on a tower or in the ground .
gary
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http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/
I had not read the last part of the page .
near the bottom is this about the " simple " version in figure 8
The tests which I have found successful with the apparatus seen in Figure 8 were carried out by the employment first of horseshoe magnets approximately 4 inches in length, the bar comprising the horseshoe being about one inch square, the zincs being dimensioned proportionately and from this apparatus with the employment of a single intensifier and rectifier, as above stated, I was able to obtain a constant current of 8 volts.
I am not sure how the zinc adds to the process .
Another little suprise that I missed
talking about the windings in the intensifier
Thus it will be seen that alternating currents produced in the wires 6 and 7 will be rectified and delivered in the form of a direct current through the line wires 9 and 10, and I find by experiment that the wires 6 and 7 should be of iron, preferably soft, and may of course be insulated, the other wiring not specified as iron being of copper or other suitable material.
Today pretty much all wiring is copper ....here he is specifying iron wire for a good share of the device .
It seems to me that iron is a better connection to magnetic fields or radiant energy .
gary
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Gary
Come to think about it ......maybe the right configuration would be to put 3 bifilar windings on one iron rod .
( Leave a space in between the coils .)
like a coil gun?
I have been thinking about this a lot.
I even have one (didn't work well on the second one) NS battery with 3 secondary's on it. It has the main one (scramble wound 200 winds) and one small one around each extending wire. one on the fe6 one on the cu5. The small ones are very small, only 3 rows of 20 winds on each . I call this one #3. It is in the ground now. btw, the sec's are made with radio shack green mag wire.
As a secondary these coils aren't getting anything from just being around the operating NS coil body1. But if I test with a dmm between the sec wire and either the 5fe or the 6cu, I see an amount of voltage equal to the best voltage the coil ever produced.
After hurting my fingers on this and one more coil I switched to 24 gauge wire. That may be why I haven't seen the effect again.
I have some more 18 gauge wire (like this on #3) and I may just make another just to see if I get more of the same effects. I will change the thickness of the core bolt1.
Judging by the tpu concepts and coil gun Plus adding the fact that I can collect the same voltsNamps from one coil simultaneously using 2 [ or more caps] in parallel, makes me want to pursue this more.
Back to your idea, Where will you connect the 12 wires?
thank you,
jeanna
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Gary
Come to think about it ......maybe the right configuration would be to put 3 bifilar windings on one iron rod .
( Leave a space in between the coils .)
like a coil gun?
I have been thinking about this a lot.
I even have one (didn't work well on the second one) NS battery with 3 secondary's on it. It has the main one (scramble wound 200 winds) and one small one around each extending wire. one on the fe6 one on the cu5. The small ones are very small, only 3 rows of 20 winds on each . I call this one #3. It is in the ground now. btw, the sec's are made with radio shack green mag wire.
As a secondary these coils aren't getting anything from just being around the operating NS coil body1. But if I test with a dmm between the sec wire and either the 5fe or the 6cu, I see an amount of voltage equal to the best voltage the coil ever produced.
After hurting my fingers on this and one more coil I switched to 24 gauge wire. That may be why I haven't seen the effect again.
I have some more 18 gauge wire (like this on #3) and I may just make another just to see if I get more of the same effects. I will change the thickness of the core bolt1.
Judging by the tpu concepts and coil gun Plus adding the fact that I can collect the same voltsNamps from one coil simultaneously using 2 [ or more caps] in parallel, makes me want to pursue this more.
Back to your idea, Where will you connect the 12 wires?
thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna
I overspent on a few things last month so I don't have any extra for testing this idea right away .
I am not sure if it is like a coil gun or not ......I didn't look into the coil gun stuff .
If you have a little time ......and you are willing you may be able to test it with little or no expense .
I would have to build 2 more coils and maybe rebuild my first coil before I could do any testing .
If you have a few coils on a shelf there you have most of what would be needed .
What would be needed is 3 coils of similar construction ........one of them should have secondary .
I would tape or tie the 3 coils to a non conductive support ....such as a broom stick or piece of lumber .
I am not sure how far apart the coils should be . ...... I am thinking that more distance may be better ......but at this point just varifying the basics is enough ...we don't need an ideal set up .
The copper winding of all 3 coils should be connected ..... same with the iron windings of all 3 coils .
I am thinking it would be best to connect these wires with the same kind of wire .......so copper to copper iron to iron .
This is all that is required for basic testing .
If it is going to work like a radiant energy absorber you should be able to take some readings ....... they should be close to the combined readings for all 3 coils ( 3 5s and 3 6s in paralell )
The readings should be highest when the coils are lined up north and south .
The the secondary in the center coil should read higher than with just one coil.
gary
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like a coil gun?
I have been thinking about this a lot.
I even have one (didn't work well on the second one) NS battery with 3 secondary's on it. It has the main one (scramble wound 200 winds) and one small one around each extending wire. one on the fe6 one on the cu5. The small ones are very small, only 3 rows of 20 winds on each . I call this one #3. It is in the ground now. btw, the sec's are made with radio shack green mag wire.
As a secondary these coils aren't getting anything from just being around the operating NS coil body1. But if I test with a dmm between the sec wire and either the 5fe or the 6cu, I see an amount of voltage equal to the best voltage the coil ever produced.
After hurting my fingers on this and one more coil I switched to 24 gauge wire. That may be why I haven't seen the effect again.
I have some more 18 gauge wire (like this on #3) and I may just make another just to see if I get more of the same effects. I will change the thickness of the core bolt1.
Judging by the tpu concepts and coil gun Plus adding the fact that I can collect the same voltsNamps from one coil simultaneously using 2 [ or more caps] in parallel, makes me want to pursue this more.
Back to your idea, Where will you connect the 12 wires?
thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna
The second part of testing ......assuming the first part looks promising . is elavating the 3 coils as much as possable and adding the wires to ground with a cap in series
The wires are 58 and 59 in fig 8 also 37 and 38 in fig 1
I wouldn't suggest a super cap .......as far as I know they can't handle much voltage ... I don't think the size of the cap is very important .
I don't understand it ...... but every accumulator plan that I have seen has a cap in a wire going to ground ......and they all state that higher is better for the collector .
I am thinking that the wires to ground should be connected with the 5s and 6s .......
remember it should be as high as practical ....... and aligned with north and south .
If it is going to work as I hope ......The readings should be available from the top of the caps near the ground stakes. hopefully the voltage will go up as the coils are elavated .
Hopefully higher voltage on the 5s and 6s will raise the power in the secondary .
The only thing left to test would be to see how it does in the ground
I would assume that if you used 2 coils that have insulated windings they would still work together ........up to a point .
I am outlining this just in case you or someone else wants to take the time to try to test the idea .... I have no expectations ...... I only want you to test this idea if it is what YOU want to do .
gary
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Gary,
This is a very interesting proposal.
I need to study it before I make a real comment.
I wonder what kind of cap you are talking about?
-----------------------------
The following is for you and Bill and anyone else making these things on a budget. ;)
I make a coil for under $10. maybe a lot under.
A 1/4 inch bolt is 40 or 60 cents.
The 24 gauge wire is 4/roll of 100 ft.
the 24 gauge zinc galvanized steel wire is 4/roll 250 ft.
The cotton cloth was from flour sack cloths. which I bought 5 of but only needed 1 for something else, so they were not free but free. thread and needle even if you need to buy these are no more than 2$ for 10 years supply.
Washers are 20 cents but need to be taped. I made some washers out of yogurt tub tops. Poke a hole and feed the wire through. It works better than steel ones.
Now the cap is more and so is the secondary wire unless you take apart a broken something as Bill did. But you can make these little coils for trying out ideas for cheap. The real big ones we will need later might cost something, but not these.
Also, I found that the 1/4 inch bolt is the perfect size to slide into a plastic drinking straw. It is a good insulation and very thin. (Drinking straws vary a little, but the striped ones in my supermkt were 1/4 inch.) This means you can re-use the bolt because you can slip it out later. ;)
Just remember these are small and the voltage will be small. and don't be discouraged.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Great post! You are correct in your advice. Anyone can make a small, simple, cheap version of the NS coil. The only thing I am wondering about is the plastic straw....what are you using that for? If it is for the insulation between the wire (first layer) and the core, I thought we needed that to be cotton as well to allow the passage of moisture and, whatever else. I think maybe Hans said something about using heat shrink tubing for the same purpose so maybe my information is incorrect. If you are getting near the output of what I am getting, and you are using the straw, then I guess that settles it. (I didn't remember if you used this on your 19 mA coil or not)
@ Gary:
Supercaps can't handle much voltage? Do you mean total or for storage? I thought that 5.5 F was a very large amount. Of course, this is volume and if you put 2,000 volts to it it would blow up. I am just not sure what you mean. I love supercaps. (can you tell?) They are so new that I am betting they have not been fully explored as of yet. Maybe we can go to a supercap and then to a rechargeable bat. to collect the energy there?
Bill
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the plastic straw....what are you using that for? If it is for the insulation between the wire (first layer) and the core, I thought we needed that to be cotton as well to allow the passage of moisture and, whatever else.
You are correct, Bill,
It was the thing that almost made me modify the post. But I am not sure.
First, no, it is not on the 19mamp coil. That coil uses a piece of pipe from the plumbing department. It was $4 so it adds that amount. not much for a whole lot of juice. But it is 3/4 in thick inside diameter so it takes a lot more wire. I got 6 full layers out of 100 ft. That is probably Ok cuz it is so strong. But I cannot experiment with longer lengths of wire. just shorter. :D
I guess this insulation is truely one of the questions. NS didn't have plastic. and he did say insulator, and when it needed more than cloth he said mica or similar. We can assume, but we don't know what it was for.
So, yeah I don't know about the straw. (when I used the straw, it was on the non-galvanic ones and I used the straw to be sure no galvanism occurred.)
Here is the thing about that core bolt. Maybe it needs to be galvanically connected to the rest of it but there is a need for capacitance in the workings of this thing. an insulator is what he specifies, and proposes a cloth or similar material. This is just another thing we must sort out.
And perhaps it is better not to make it from a straw just now.
thanks for asking.
jeanna
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Gary,
This is a very interesting proposal.
I need to study it before I make a real comment.
I wonder what kind of cap you are talking about?
-----------------------------
The following is for you and Bill and anyone else making these things on a budget. ;)
I make a coil for under $10. maybe a lot under.
A 1/4 inch bolt is 40 or 60 cents.
The 24 gauge wire is 4/roll of 100 ft.
the 24 gauge zinc galvanized steel wire is 4/roll 250 ft.
The cotton cloth was from flour sack cloths. which I bought 5 of but only needed 1 for something else, so they were not free but free. thread and needle even if you need to buy these are no more than 2$ for 10 years supply.
Washers are 20 cents but need to be taped. I made some washers out of yogurt tub tops. Poke a hole and feed the wire through. It works better than steel ones.
Now the cap is more and so is the secondary wire unless you take apart a broken something as Bill did. But you can make these little coils for trying out ideas for cheap. The real big ones we will need later might cost something, but not these.
Also, I found that the 1/4 inch bolt is the perfect size to slide into a plastic drinking straw. It is a good insulation and very thin. (Drinking straws vary a little, but the striped ones in my supermkt were 1/4 inch.) This means you can re-use the bolt because you can slip it out later. ;)
Just remember these are small and the voltage will be small. and don't be discouraged.
jeanna
Jeanna
The cap I would start with is a motor run cap ....... 5 F 270 V AC ...... I also have some smaller caps that I would try just to see if the size of the cap makes a difference .
I will think about building smaller coils ........in general I follow what I see in my mind on such things .
The coils I see in my mind have big wire .......around 1/4 in .
just before I went out to buy parts for my coil I wrote that we should keep the coils small .......because it is hard to make a big mistake with a small coil .
When I got to the store I found I felt compelled to buy what fit what I saw in my mind ........not what I intellectually thought I should get.
For me seeing how things work is not an intellectual process .
I try to understand it the best I can .......then ....... I will often see it .
I can't get things like math formulas this way .....but I can often get a good idea the relationships involved .
Bill
I don't have any real experience with supercaps ....... I did look for them online .....what I found were caps that had a very high farad rating but low voltage .... starting around 3 V and topping out around 100 V
The ones I looked at were also very expensive .
If this idea of using earth batterys in place of the horseshoe magnets work well ...... (the horseshoe version put out 8 volts ) there could posably be much higher voltage from our coils .......I just didn't want anyone blowing up supercaps testing this
gary
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@ Gary:
Awwww come on, you mean we can't blow up some caps? Where's the fun in that? (Ha ha) Like I said, I am still learning here so it is quite possible that I may blow something up before it's over. There are many things I still don't understand about capacitors, or super caps. Like, for example, your 5 F 270 volt cap........if I were to hook up 3 volts to it and let it sit there and charge, would the max. voltage on the cap be just 3 volts? Or, would it be able to continue to charge to the full 270 volt capacity? In other words, can you fill a cap. or super cap up with more volts than you are putting in? Like a small hose of water filling a large bucket...the bucket will fill eventually...is this the same with caps? I can't find anything about these questions in any of my electronics books, or on the net. So much to learn.
Bill
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@ All:
Found this here:http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=746 (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=746)
10 F super cap. for $4.95 ea.
Super Capacitor - 10F/2.5V
SKU#: COM-00746
Price: $4.95
10-99: $4.46 each (10% off)
100 or more: $3.96 each (20% off)
Description: Yes you read that correctly - 10Farad capacitor. This small cap can be charged up and then slowly dissapated running an entire system for hours. Combine two in series for 5F/5V. Do not over voltage or reverse polarize these capacitors.
Documents: 10F Super Cap Datasheet
Dimensions: 13x33.5mm
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@ All:
3,000 FARED!!!!!!!!!!
Maxwell Technologies BCAP3000 Ultracapacitors
Image of BOOSTCAP BCAP3000
* 2.7 Volt operating voltage*
* Over 1 million duty cycles
* 3000 Farads
* Threaded terminal or weldable post versions
* Ultra-low internal resistance
BCAP3000 E270 features at a glance
Capacitance (Farads) 3000
Bill
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@ Gary:
Awwww come on, you mean we can't blow up some caps? Where's the fun in that? (Ha ha) Like I said, I am still learning here so it is quite possible that I may blow something up before it's over. There are many things I still don't understand about capacitors, or super caps. Like, for example, your 5 F 270 volt cap........if I were to hook up 3 volts to it and let it sit there and charge, would the max. voltage on the cap be just 3 volts? Or, would it be able to continue to charge to the full 270 volt capacity? In other words, can you fill a cap. or super cap up with more volts than you are putting in? Like a small hose of water filling a large bucket...the bucket will fill eventually...is this the same with caps? I can't find anything about these questions in any of my electronics books, or on the net. So much to learn.
Bill
Bill
If you charge any cap with a steady 3 V you will end up with a cap charged to 3 volts ......no magic here .
Now ....... if you charge 2 caps to 3 V and connect them in series then dump them into a 3rd cap you will have well over 3 V this is known as a Tesla switch or Scalar battery charger
( most often Tesla switches are built with batterys . )
The reason I was going to start with a relativly high voltage cap is because I have have heard that there can be large variations in the power that can be received from the air or earth ......... AC run caps are relatively big .....and tough .......but also relatively cheep ........ the only thing you have to be careful of is if you do overload one .......they get messy ......they can spray the oil inside them all over the room ..... That oil is NOT something you want to breath .
About blowing up caps ...........did you know that if you connect a small low voltage cap across 110 V ( house wiring ) it will blow up like a firecracker ?
I don't remember how small you have to go to get a bang out of it .
gary
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Bill
Thanks for the links for supercaps
here is a different kind of cap I found .
http://www.evanscap.com/hybrid.htm
gary
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@ Gary:
Thanks for the explanation on the caps. I was not sure. That is a cool link too, I bookmarked it for future reference. I was just amazed at the second type of super cap I found with 3,000 F, I thought that 5.5 F or 10 F was big, but 3,000? I can't wait to play with some of these. Thanks.
Bill
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@ Gary:
Thanks for the explanation on the caps. I was not sure. That is a cool link too, I bookmarked it for future reference. I was just amazed at the second type of super cap I found with 3,000 F, I thought that 5.5 F or 10 F was big, but 3,000? I can't wait to play with some of these. Thanks.
Bill
Bill
I hope to build a simplified version of a Tesla switch sometime in the not to distant future .
I still have a lot to learn before I am ready to try something that complex .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Be careful with those big caps ...... seems to me one of those things could kill you a dozen times over ....... even having 9 lives wouldn't help much :)
gary
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Hi all I was doing some research on hooking up super caps in series, from what I read if you hook up more than 3 super caps in series you will need to balance the voltages. I also did some research into this the best I could come up with is one site. http://www.icd-asia.net/super_cap.html
@ Jim I read on the other discussion that your LED lit up bright, so bright it hurt your eyes, I think the same thing happened to Bill if I am correct with his super cap when he showed it to his friend. Could it be that the rods are giving off more power than our instruments are indicating?
@Bill those super caps are amazing, I wonder how much is for the 3000 Farads one.
Kevin
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@ Gary:
Thanks for the warning on the larger caps. I already learned (or almost) this when I was a kid and took a tv apart. ZAP! Learning how it could still shock me when it was unplugged was my first introduction to things electrical and electronic. I don't recommend this way of learning however.
@kevin:
If you go to Maxwell Technologies website (I don't have the link handy) there is a link to their retailers in the US. (I think there were only 2) I didn't get to check the prices but I imagine they are pretty high, but the prices on the new super caps are falling every day. Yes, I read the same thing somewhere on the more than 3 caps in series situation. I too think there is somehow more power going into my cap than I am measuring...possibly it is the added ac component doing this? I really don't know but for a while have suspected the same thing.
Bill
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For anyone that has not seen them on the other Earth battery topic, I am posting some links to videos on Metacafe. (The newer folks might have missed them) Not that they are that great...I am working on another video now that will, hopefully, be better.
Earth Battery Experiments III:http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1235734/earth_battery_experiments_iii/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1235734/earth_battery_experiments_iii/)
Earth Battery Experiments :http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1235712/earth_battery_experiments/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1235712/earth_battery_experiments/)
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@ All:
Here is a repeat of my supercap LED circuit. In case someone has not seen it. It is very simple. So simple, even I could do it. the cap is .22F and 5.5v.
Bill
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Here is another picture. This is the LED circuit sitting on my kitchen table after being disconnected from the earth cell for about 15 minutes. It is just running off the capacitor. I did a test to see how long it would stay illuminated, and it was "on" for about 2 hours. It was not this bright but did stay bright for about 45 minutes and then went down from there.
Bill
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[
What is your E-cell like?
I believe that stubblefield was working with more than galvanic reactions . I am looking for similarity's between the earth battery and radiant energy receivers .
gary
[/quote]
My Cell is just an earth cell using copper and zinc.
I can use a water cell (copper and zinc in a jar) and wire them in series then connect that to my earth cell and get a very good voltage readings. what i can seem to get is amps. each cell wheather its an earth cell or water cell has much higher mamps readings.
its just magic seeing the voltage going through my earth cell. my rods are about 6 feet apart.
as an update i added caps to everything i could think of in many different configurations. still no useable mamps.
my next earth cell will be a 9 inch copper pipe buried about 3 feet deep. connected by a 18 gauge copper wire. i will keep you posted
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Well, I finally got outside and buried the larger of my two coils. Results as follows:
vdc: .83
mA: 39 (This number falls off quickly to about 32 mA.)
vac: 1.1
All in all, the numbers are a little better than when wet sitting on my kitchen table. We will see what happens over the next few days. I will see if it will run the LED circuit, charge a few caps, etc. Very nice weather here today although we had a 5.4 earthquake at 4:40 a.m. and a pretty good aftershock at about 10:15 a.m.
Bill
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we had a 5.4 earthquake at 4:40 a.m. and a pretty good aftershock at about 10:15 a.m.
Bill
woah an earthquake in Kentucky? That is a rare event isn't it?
5.4 is pretty big too??
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Actually, the epicenter was in southern IL but it was recorded as 5.4 here. Good sized quake. Yes, pretty rare for this area, I believe this is the largest since sometime in the 60's. (Largest one since I have lived here) My cat did not appreciate it at all. I am doing some testing today in hopes that the quake shifted all of the telluric currents into my area for huge cell output. Hey, it could happen...couldn't it? Ha ha.
Bill
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I am doing some testing today in hopes that the quake shifted all of the telluric currents into my area for huge cell output. Hey, it could happen...couldn't it? Ha ha.
Bill
Sideways rain right now. I'm glad I was out this morning.
You know, bill, you have always had the highest readings of any of us. Mine have always been at least .1 or .2vdc and amps too below yours for what seem similar probes.
Maybe the piezo pressure that builds up before a quake gives a boost to probes or coil.
I just had a peek at the usgs eq site and the fault goes between near you to memphis.
Perhaps this is part of NS's secret. Hopefully it just gave him the impetus to go for it, and we can all get some decent electricity from our ground with his coils.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
The fault you mentioned is the New Madrid fault line. That is the one that a quake in the 1800's made the Mississippi river run backwards. This quake was not associated with that fault. There is another one up near IL somewhere which caused this one, according to the news.
Sadly, my buried coil is now putting out less than when I buried it. a lot less!!! I will give it a few days to see if anything changes.
Bill
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Thanks Bill, I wondered that myself...I think Stubblefield had the most reliable system of all the free energy concepts.
Regards...
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There is another one up near IL somewhere which caused this one, according to the news.
Sadly, my buried coil is now putting out less than when I buried it. a lot less!!! I will give it a few days to see if anything changes.
Bill
Nevertheless, I will be watching your results closely (as if I wouldn't have anyway ;) ) Whatever the name of the fault that let go the fact that you were jumping and I wasn't means it probably did more to your coil than to mine. ;D ;D
Think of it this way, if the NS coils can predict eq's, they will be required in every front lawn. ;D
(usgs put the epicenter right over the line from KY into IL. I am curious about what that is. If you know, feel free to pm me. I am glad you mentioned it. I still haven't heard back from my sister in Springfield, IL ah, patience!)
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
I may have to dig my coil up and try to plant it deeper this time. It is only in the ground a little more than halfway, which might really be affecting it in ways I don't understand. Spring is the time for planting and I am planting coils. My neighbors think I am strange...they might be right.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
I may have to dig my coil up and try to plant it deeper this time. It is only in the ground a little more than halfway, which might really be affecting it in ways I don't understand.
Bill
Maybe. I really think he talked about true burial for the sake of the patent officers who were familiar with batteries in jars and in the ground, but couldn't understand what he was doing with frequency.
I noticed something in the patent yesterday.
I have been making a test series to see if the gauge of the cu and fe must be the same. I was thinking I could learn something about this coil by making 3 small ones.
1- both wires thick and equal as before 1/4 in x 6 in bolt wrapped with cotton, etc
2- one same as above but, with a thin cu wire
3- one same as above but, with a thin fe wire.
I was reading what the internet had to say about NS again and I happened to notice that the thickness of the cu including the wrapping is the same as the thickness of the fe wire. So, I may be on to something, here. (Maybe everyone already noticed that and I am the last to see it.)
Then I realized that all the cu was in perfect alignment with cu and fe with the fe. So, they would be like pancake wound coils looking like discs except that they are also attached in a spiral fashion by the wire to the next disc and at the same time interrupted by the pancake disc of the other metal. (hard to describe)
I bet this is important. I think I may have hit on it with the one that broke. Now, perhaps is the time to open that one up. or not. I will be sure to make the one with even wires like pancakes.
Possibly Sid and Joe did this. maybe it is the natural thing if you use a lathe or like a lathe with strong spool ends to wind this, maybe that is how it winds automatically.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Both the wires on my coils are the same diameter, well, the copper is .003" larger but for all practical purposes, the same. I am not sure what you mean by the pancake winding. My wires are all symmetrically aligned with each other and fit the same way up and down the coil as they are wound. I wound both the wires at the same time which is the only way I could figure out how to do it. Yes, it was by hand which sucks!!! My next one will be done with a machine of some type, drill, motor shaft, something. I pulled my coil up from the ground, and am now looking for a pipe of the proper diameter to drive into the ground deeper to make the hole deeper for my coil. I drive in the pipe or rod and pull it out and drop the coil in. Problem is, my coil is now pretty fat with the added cotton outside layer so I need a larger ramrod.
Bill
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@jeanna good call ...
I realized that a while back when i started screaming tesla.. its a bunch of his original bifilar coils wound in a solonoid fashion.. very novel design mr Stubblefield had here .. look a the pic from the tesla patent taht should do it for you.
Joe
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I am not sure what you mean by the pancake winding. My wires are all symmetrically aligned with each other and fit the same way up and down the coil as they are wound. I wound both the wires at the same time which is the only way I could figure out how to do it.
Bill,
I just used the word pancake to bring up the image. It's as you look at the cu wire for instance but from a different dimension. When it is finished if you were to slice through it there would be a stack of cu if viewed from one way, but if you could strip away all other layers and wires you would see a pancake even though it is not wound as a pancake. It is hard to describe. It is from a different dimension of viewing.
This is probably the best way to put it:
When you get to the bottom and begin to wind it back up again is the first wire going up the same as the last wire of the previous row? That is what I noticed about the drawing yesterday.
My assumption was that the most inductance would come about if the wires alternated cu to fe on rows as well as on each row. It is not how he drew it.
The thickness thing is just my own experiment. It might show which metal is responsible for what in the effect of the coil. (just one of my left field ideas I'm getting famous for. ;D ;) )
jeanna
YES JOE, that is it. btw thanks for the pic. I think it helps.
I also want to acknowledge that Hans sent out that pic but I wasn't ready for it until now. 8)
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Copper wire insulated had minimal volatge and current when copper fully exposed but not touching steel wire curren increase 10x .
Try this if you have time incert two wires in a cup of water copper insulated except the little nub at the end and iron uninsulated bare . Take readings. Now strip the copper bare and the iron bare take readings . Make sure they dont touch through all the tests. third test take small iron bolt or zinc bolt make a spiral coil around it but not touching with the copper thick wire if possible. Take readings. then do the same with bare copper make sure it doesent touch the iron bolt. There is somethign to it being coiled and in close proximity of the other bimetal . ;D
Joe
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I was reading what the internet had to say about NS again and I happened to notice that the thickness of the cu including the wrapping is the same as the thickness of the fe wire. So, I may be on to something, here. (Maybe everyone already noticed that and I am the last to see it.)
Jeanna
I agree the ratio of copper and iron is probably important.
When I built my cell I was shooting for the iron being the same size as the wrapped cotton .......mostly because of resistance . A larger wire will have less resistance then a thiner wire .
I can't find it now but I remember seeing a ratio for water batterys
I am guessing that the ratio for the galvanomic prosess is probably different than the ratio for the magnetic prosess I am playing with .
HHHhhhhhmmmmm I can test the magnetic part with my big cap ........ I think I will try putting it together with 2 iron plates for each copper ...... I have plenty of iron ........ the copper is expensive ......it would cost $30 for another coil of copper to test going the other way .
gary
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......it would cost $30 for another coil of copper to test going the other way .
gary
How do you test the magnetic part with a cap?
I like testing with a cap in general because the meter is not able to mess with things, but how do mean to test the magnetic part?
The cost is the reason I was and still am making rather diminutive coils. I can see the effects and change them for less money. When I think I am ready I can pay the big bucks for some plenty-copper-wire.
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@ Jeanna:
Yes, now I see what you mean. (Thanks to Joe posting the Tesla photo) The view you are talking about is a cross-section. And yes, when I reached the bottom in my windings I started up again and the cu was directly on top of the cu and the fe on top of the fe, and so on. But, your readings are similar to mine so maybe it does not matter all that much?
@ Joe:
I think I see what you are getting at with the cup of water experiments. I agree about the cu wire bing bare. One thing I have not tried, that Han's said should work the same, is to use insulated fe wire and bare cu wire. Winding would sure be easier. Maybe I should test on a very small scale to see if it still works like that? We would still need cotton to insulate the core, and the layers I believe. What is it about the copper itself? And its relationship to the iron wire? I was always wondering if we could use another metal (cheaper) than copper for the wire? The only other thing I could think of that we could get easily would be aluminum wire. Maybe this would work better? NS did not have access to AL wire at that time, I think, so his not using it might not be because it would not work? (It might work better) Again, so many things to experiment on and explore. (So little $$ for materials)
Bill
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@ All:
I have a new personal record after burying my coil all the way:
AC Volts: 1.3 vac
DC Volts: .93vdc
Ma: 56mA (drops to 47 mA pretty fast)
OK so, well, I added a little distilled white vinegar (5% solution) to the hole before inserting my coil. The readings are staying consistent. I also added some water while inserting my coil so we will have to see what happens.
Bill
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@ All:
I am going to try to tie the cell together with my electrodes to see what kind of number I can get now. My camera batteries are dead, but if I can make my ac adapter cord reach far enough, I will try to take a few photos.
Bill
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How do you test the magnetic part with a cap?
I like testing with a cap in general because the meter is not able to mess with things, but how do mean to test the magnetic part?
The cost is the reason I was and still am making rather diminutive coils. I can see the effects and change them for less money. When I think I am ready I can pay the big bucks for some plenty-copper-wire.
Jeanna
I am doing almost the same thing you are doing ........only you are looking for a result that is both galvanic and magnetic .
For a galvanic reaction you are looking at how 2 metals react with water .
In my opinion galvanic action is not true over unity because it will eventually destroy the cell as it created energy .......it is a chemecal reaction
I am looking for a magnetic reaction or rather a difference in magnetic reactions from different metals in a magnetic field ( earths magnetic field )
by using a cap I am also ruling out self created magnetic fields that a coil might make.
So far my copper / iron cap creates between .5 and .6 V but no measurable current .
I hope this answers your question
gary
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Hello Guys, I most exclusivly use Tesla bifilar flat wound coils # 8 or larger size wire.The bifilar phase shifts to 180 degrees out of phase-phase shift.This appears to be a direct short .There is a tap where the two wires come togather.The bifilar properly built "IS" a capacitor.Then there is a monster ground as per Tesla.He always used monster grounds of the best copper this was because of the small resistance."Olms law".(One of the coils I built was 25 to 28 turns of #8 copper wire.I had some wierd waves come off this configiration,house hold voltage was 140v at 15amps.)*Mabe this information will help*.My new coil I'm working on is a # 1 size copper cable this is a little dangerous I'm saving my money to buy the proper test equipment to test some new generators.Wire the capacitors in the "Tesla Switch" configuration would be my thoughts on regular caps, because this gives the 180 shift."Tesla said "ALL POWER SPINS OFF {ZERO (- 0 -)}" ALL Bifilars will give you these mathmatics.Trifilars are different.Inside of a silinoid gives this same scalar wave can be amplified with a regular Tesla coil sitting on top.Sorry I have been gone for so long. Some people offered me 225,000 usd and they had a bad attitude and p.s. me off ,they demanded me to sign a contract with them.This information will give us FE and Antigravity.Use this wisely.Andy McQuerry (phononstring@yahoo.com)
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What is it about the copper itself? And its relationship to the iron wire? I was always wondering if we could use another metal (cheaper) than copper for the wire? The only other thing I could think of that we could get easily would be aluminum wire. Maybe this would work better? NS did not have access to AL wire at that time, I think, so his not using it might not be because it would not work? (It might work better) Again, so many things to experiment on and explore. (So little $$ for materials)
Bill
Bill
one of the reasons I made my cap is to check out the interactions between different metals
I was very hopeful that aluminum would work out .
my readings with aluminum / copper and aluminum /iron were both very low ..... of course I was only checking dry voltage ( non galvanomic )
If you get a very good galvanic reaction it still might work in the coils .
gary
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Hello Guys, I most exclusivly use Tesla bifilar flat wound coils # 8 or larger size wire.The bifilar phase shifts to 180 degrees out of phase-phase shift.This appears to be a direct short .There is a tap where the two wires come togather.The bifilar properly built "IS" a capacitor.Then there is a monster ground as per Tesla.He always used monster grounds of the best copper this was because of the small resistance."Olms law".(One of the coils I built was 25 to 28 turns of #8 copper wire.I had some wierd waves come off this configiration,house hold voltage was 140v at 15amps.)*Mabe this information will help*.My new coil I'm working on is a # 1 size copper cable this is a little dangerous I'm saving my money to buy the proper test equipment to test some new generators.Wire the capacitors in the "Tesla Switch" configuration would be my thoughts on regular caps, because this gives the 180 shift."Tesla said "ALL POWER SPINS OFF {ZERO (- 0 -)}" ALL Bifilars will give you these mathmatics.Trifilars are different.Inside of a silinoid gives this same scalar wave can be amplified with a regular Tesla coil sitting on top.Sorry I have been gone for so long. Some people offered me 225,000 usd and they had a bad attitude and p.s. me off ,they demanded me to sign a contract with them.This information will give us FE and Antigravity.Use this wisely.Andy McQuerry (phononstring@yahoo.com)
Welcome back Andy
As someone that has worked with Tesla bifilar coils ...... do you think that winding a Tesla bifilar with one coil copper and one iron would make something similar to a stubbfield cell ?
gary
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Gary,There are several types of Tesla bifilar, flat wound and spool,are two types. The answer is yes!!!!!!!! A Tesla coil mounted on top, amplifies the scalar wave drastically.Phone me 870-862-8020 Andy McQuerry
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Guys ,A must is to look up Teslas electromagnet patient ,a flat wound pancake coil is what I am talking about.This configuration is coil #2 must read completly.This particular has a 1000 times input to output.Do your math you will love this! Andy
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Guys ,A must is to look up Teslas electromagnet patient ,a flat wound pancake coil is what I am talking about.This configuration is coil #2 must read completly.This particular has a 1000 times input to output.Do your math you will love this! Andy
Andy I will check out that patent .
You siad it has 1000 times more ouput than input .........what is normally used for input ?? AC ? RF ?
gary
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@ All:
By attaching the positive lead to my carbon rod and the minus lead to the coil core I read 1.3vdc. This had low mA's. (around 10) This was parallel so it should have boosted the mA's I thought. Series would raise the volts so why did they go up? I just checked again outside and got, for a fleeting moment, 69 mA's from the core to the copper wire from the coil. It dropped down to the high 50's very quickly. Just testing the coil alone, if I leave it attached to the meter for a bit, the vdc climbs to and holds at 93. Then, when testing the mA's, which are high at this point, when they drop down, the test for the vdc has lowered as well. (to about .85) Then, in a few minutes of being hooked to the meter (on volts setting) it climbs back to about 93 and settles. Why is this doing this? I took a few pictures but am having a real problem reducing below 50 kb.
Bill
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Andy I will check out that patent .
You siad it has 1000 times more ouput than input .........what is normally used for input ?? AC ? RF ?
gary
Gary,
Guys ,A must is to look up Teslas electromagnet patient Andy
Here is the patent number
512340
I printed it out and have read it a couple of times. It is pretty clear too.
But we won't be getting any 1000 fold increase by winding around a core bolt because the diameter doesn't increase that much with each turn. Tesla mentions this very thing in the patent.
But the point he makes very clearly is that the coil is a capacitor.
He was looking for a way to make a coil that was its own capacitor and by winding as he describes, he got such a potential difference going out the pancake that it was 1000 fold.
@ Bill, I think I recognize your readings from today. I also boosted my cu wire by connecting it to the carbon rods too.
I think it is a kind additive but not really series. The carbon is like an extension of the cu so it is more + than the cu is by itself. I added to this boost by hooking the fe to the mag block or the zn stick too. Thus making the fe more negative.
I think it is curious and may be a way to boost the input of the coil. The problem with it is it's like putting battery juice through the coil the wires will probably corrode .
I would suggest that we should not go overboard on creating the galvanic part. It might unbalance the coil to cause corrosion by not allowing enough electrolysis happen. (the electrolysis would replace the metals back onto the original wires stopping the corrosion. NS repeated that the coil need only be moist.
I thought I was going to take today off! hmm. guess not. Interesting stuff today.
@Gary, I am wondering if you are calling your coil a cap BECAUSE there is no galvanic reax going on? because you used a dry set up? I am not sure still how, but I am told that the coil is a cap too even when it is running a galvanic battery. In that patent Tesla refers to this too.
So much to study!!
jeanna
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Gary, I dont see where it would make any difference ac rf or dc because of the phase shift.This coil has 2 vortexes, 1 regular the other inverted say figure 8 with the bifilar in the middle.Everything is phase shifted and draws energy from the ambient also.In some instances these coils will vibrate profucely with ac and rf havent tryed it with dc.anything that operates with a wave pattern.This coil strips the waves appart.then you have particals and antiparticals that want to go back to ambient.This is zero and some instanaces below zero trying to come back to a normal sine wave this is pure scalar.Remember we are working on the zero point only.Regards Andy
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@Gary, I am wondering if you are calling your coil a cap BECAUSE there is no galvanic reax going on? because you used a dry set up? I am not sure still how, but I am told that the coil is a cap too even when it is running a galvanic battery. In that patent Tesla refers to this too.
Jeanna
I guess I didn't make things very clear.
My first coil was a " normal " stubblefield earth battery.
My second " coil " is my cap ......it is made for studying the magnetic posabilities of dissimilar metals .
My cap is made with sheet metal . .......or in the case of aluminum.......foil.
The only wire in my cap is the connections for my meter.
Compared to a coil it can be rebuilt with different metals relatively quickly .
gary
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Gary, I dont see where it would make any difference ac rf or dc because of the phase shift.This coil has 2 vortexes, 1 regular the other inverted say figure 8 with the bifilar in the middle.Everything is phase shifted and draws energy from the ambient also.In some instances these coils will vibrate profucely with ac and rf havent tryed it with dc.anything that operates with a wave pattern.This coil strips the waves appart.then you have particals and antiparticals that want to go back to ambient.This is zero and some instanaces below zero trying to come back to a normal sine wave this is pure scalar.Remember we are working on the zero point only.Regards Andy
Andy
I just finished reading the patent .
I think that there are alot of possabilitys relating to what we are learning from the stubblefield earth battery .
If I understood your earlier post right ........you said something about using large wire . how much does that help ?
WHat I am thinking now ........ to make a non galvanic earth battery I could start with a sheet of plastic .
Hot glue copper and iron wires in a spiral around a center hole ( through the plastic. )
As I see it .........one coil wound like this wouldn't make an earth battery ...............but ........if I placed an iron rod through the hole in the plastic I could stack as many coils as needed for any power requirements .
one advantage of this is you can wire each section or group of sections in either paralell or series
I want to try to make a resonant earth battery ......I need AC for another idea .
The inductance of the iron winding of my original coil was quite a bit less than my copper . if I understand the patent right I could add a layer ( or part of a layer ) of iron only to tune the inductance.
gary
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Gary, I dont see where it would make any difference ac rf or dc because of the phase shift.This coil has 2 vortexes, 1 regular the other inverted say figure 8 with the bifilar in the middle.Everything is phase shifted and draws energy from the ambient also.In some instances these coils will vibrate profucely with ac and rf havent tryed it with dc.anything that operates with a wave pattern.This coil strips the waves appart.then you have particals and antiparticals that want to go back to ambient.This is zero and some instanaces below zero trying to come back to a normal sine wave this is pure scalar.Remember we are working on the zero point only.Regards Andy
Andy,
Are you talking about the Stubblefield battery? It sounds to me like the Tesla pancake, a little.
I don't see how we could do the pancake on the core piece, which is likely how NS got away with his design, because otherwize Tesla covered it with his pancake patent.
In case you haven't read it the Stubblefield patent is 600457.
If you have and you are talking about it, wow, it sounds like you have a lot of experience with these.
jeanna
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Gary,
Just so I can keep up, is this a pancake on the ground?
or stacks of pancakes?
Maple sysrup? ;D
WHat I am thinking now ........ to make a non galvanic earth battery I could start with a sheet of plastic .
Hot glue copper and iron wires in a spiral around a center hole ( through the plastic. )
jeanna
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@ All:
OK. I have been reading the last several posts and (Oh no, not again) may have an idea. I noticed on the Tesla patent for the pancake coil that all the wire (bifilar) were insulated and, as Jeanna pointed out, no core. Way back when we were wondering if it was better to have a short coil with many, many layers or a longer coil with a few. so, what I am thinking is trying a Tesla/Stubblefield set-up whereby you have a pancake bifilar except we use the old bare cu and fe wire insulated with cotton and add an iron core. The core, of course, would be more like a disk than a rod. This would be easy to wind. An old record player would be handy at this point. Not to use the motor but, you could hand spin it while winding and keeping it flat. What do you think? I would like to see what this puts out.
Bill
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@ Gary:
Good idea about stacking.
Bill
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Gary,
Just so I can keep up, is this a pancake on the ground?
or stacks of pancakes?
Maple sysrup? ;D
WHat I am thinking now ........ to make a non galvanic earth battery I could start with a sheet of plastic .
Hot glue copper and iron wires in a spiral around a center hole ( through the plastic. )
jeanna
Jeanna
I guess you could call it a stack of pancakes ......... and no syurip please .........I am on a low galvanic diet .
What I am thinking right now .......is that using small wires sizes it would be pretty cheap to wind a few of these coils
like you are doing with your coils .
With a core through the middle of them .......its kind of like a modular earth battery .
gary
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Tesla/Stubblefield set-up whereby you have a pancake bifilar except we use the old bare cu and fe wire insulated with cotton and add an iron core. The core, of course, would be more like a disk than a rod.
What do you think? I would like to see what this puts out.
Bill
I probably should go to sleep instead of ask another question but... ;D
I can't picture this. the pancake is flat on the ground like the picture ok. And the core is a sheet in the form of a disk? I can't follow the core part?
Anyway it seems to me that it wouldn't need the corepiece or anything else the way he wrote the patent. but lets say it does and you are going to hold onto some of the mag field you produce with the coil as in the NS core piece 1 primary, where would you put the core?
a pic a drawing?
jeanna
ps
yes gary, that is like what I thought Bill was doing. stab the middle like the record spindle.
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@ All:
OK. I have been reading the last several posts and (Oh no, not again) may have an idea. I noticed on the Tesla patent for the pancake coil that all the wire (bifilar) were insulated and, as Jeanna pointed out, no core. Way back when we were wondering if it was better to have a short coil with many, many layers or a longer coil with a few. so, what I am thinking is trying a Tesla/Stubblefield set-up whereby you have a pancake bifilar except we use the old bare cu and fe wire insulated with cotton and add an iron core. The core, of course, would be more like a disk than a rod. This would be easy to wind. An old record player would be handy at this point. Not to use the motor but, you could hand spin it while winding and keeping it flat. What do you think? I would like to see what this puts out.
Bill
Bill
The record player idea might work great for small wired
You would have to glue the wire to something every once in a while .
I remember another site people were winding pancake coils for something ......can't remember what they were for you have to pull on the wire some as you wind to keep the winding tight. ...... if the wire is not secured well .......you will get to a certain point and the wire will pop off of other windings ........once it pops ......you are done ...no chance of fixing it.
one of the ways they were doing it is winding the pancake between to heavy plastic sheets .
gary
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Jeanna:
Yes, you put the core (disk) in the middle. That is not what Tesla was doing. His wires were both the same and were not bare either. I was talking of combining both ideas. Copper and iron bare, and a core, but pancake style winding. Maybe nothing here. Maybe something. I didn't consider Gary's idea of stacking. As he said....modular. You want X power....you need X number of pancakes. Also, as he said, wired in series or parallel depending on the requirements.
Bill
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What I am thinking right now .......is that using small wires sizes it would be pretty cheap to wind a few of these coils
like you are doing with your coils .
With a core through the middle of them .......its kind of like a modular earth battery .
Maybe we are all talking about the same thing? like make a little record out of cu then one of fe then another of cu etc, and stack them around a core like a record spindle with a stack of records.
Is that it Bill too?
I see your post maybe so.
jeanna
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@ All:
Actually, in thinking about it, the "core" could be whatever size you wanted. You could have a core the diameter of a cd and just start the windings from there. Or, you could use a core the size of a dime. Once wound, a way could easily be devised to hold it together without messing up the cotton insulation. Maybe a sandwich between two dielectrics or wooden disks? I am intrigued by this new development.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
No, I don't think that is what we mean, although, that might be another way to go about it. In the drawing Joe posted, it was bifilar in the winding. The cross section would look like this: Get it? : One wire on top of the other like in Tesla's patent. (The colon represents one wire on top of the other)
Your way might be something else we need to explore, I didn't think of that either. Geeze, I can't keep up with you guys.
Bill
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Gary, Footage of wire is where the voltage is for example a 24 foot solid copper rod in the ground is 24 volts.Now is the time to do the resistance equation and the resistance is directly proportional to your amperage because of the electron density or the mean count of free electrons! which when you increase the diameter of the rod it self you get more free electrons or known as amperage.Low amperage high resistance or high amperage low resistance olms law.For example.(if your voltage is 24 and your resistance is 1olm....{24/1=24....24v x 24amps=576watts} or if the resistance is .004 then the equasion would be..........{24/.004=6000.....24v x 6000amps=144,000} watts which one would you like to have,The total electron density still is in the diameter of the solid copper rod or cable now how many free electrons do you think there are in copper pipe tubing very little compaired to a 1-4 inch solid copper rod."copper tubing high resistance" solid copper rod of rthe same size as the copper tubing low resistance.The 24v is the pressure to help move the free electrons.If electrons were strawberrys and you had a regular mac donald straw it would take tremendous power to suck only a portion of that strawberry through the straw because of the high resistance.Now if you had a shop vac wirh a 2 inch hose the resistance is less PLOP! goes the strawberry.Same with the free electrons.Andy McQuerry
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@ Gary:
Yes, we posted almost at the same time. The wooden disk I was talking about would keep everything in line, like you said the plastic sheets would. The rub here to me is using the uninsulated wire as NS was using in his idea. If it turns out we can use insulated, well then, a few tack shots with the old glue gun would hold everything in place, no wood or plastic disks needed. I am just thinking we might explore the bare wire in this design as we have our other coils. and then, your stacking idea, with cotton in between the layers, might just be really something. Great, now I won't be able to sleep.
Bill
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I probably should go to sleep instead of ask another question but... ;D
I can't picture this. the pancake is flat on the ground like the picture ok. And the core is a sheet in the form of a disk? I can't follow the core part?
Anyway it seems to me that it wouldn't need the corepiece or anything else the way he wrote the patent. but lets say it does and you are going to hold onto some of the mag field you produce with the coil as in the NS core piece 1 primary, where would you put the core?
a pic a drawing?
jeanna
ps
yes gary, that is like what I thought Bill was doing. stab the middle like the record spindle.
Jeanna
I am not sure what Bill means by a disk shaped core.
To explain my idea of a core .........if you put the pancake on the ground ........and stuck a bolt or piece of rebar into the ground in the center of the pancake ....... That is all that there is to it.
you may be right....... these coils may not need a core .....
gary
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@ Andy:
So, you are saying that it does not matter if the total copper is wound or straight? Are you then speaking of the total mass of the copper then? This would make some sense to me based on earlier experiments for upping the power over voltage. Great input, we appreciate your postings.
Bill
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Gary, Footage of wire is where the voltage is for example a 24 foot solid copper rod in the ground is 24 volts.
PLOP! goes the strawberry.Same with the free electrons.Andy McQuerry
So now hold the maple syrup and pass the strawberries ;D ;D
Andy, I thought from reading the patent that just a bigger diameter does the trick and we really don't need to make 2 layers. right?
I think this is another whole avenue for research.
What have you made from this patent? It seems really strong to me. just wind more wire to make it longer bigger diameter and wow.
and it is all insulated so just do it. no wrapping. I better go to sleep! ;)
thanks Andy
jeanna
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@ Gary:
What I mean about the disk shaped core is this: Picture the pancake winding wound around a core the thickness of the two wires stacked upon each other in bifilar fashion. So, if each wire is .125" diameter, then stacked they would be .250". The "core" in my idea would then be a round piece of iron 1/4" thick by whatever diameter you wanted. Or, in your stacking scenario, you would simply slide the multiple pancakes over a center pole (rod) for the core. Am I explaining this better?
Bill
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The thing about the NS battery coil is that a small amount of galvanic action produces a whole lot of power. we just need to get the proportions right.
Im outta here
jeanna
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@ Andy:
So, you are saying that it does not matter if the total copper is wound or straight? Are you then speaking of the total mass of the copper then? This would make some sense to me based on earlier experiments for upping the power over voltage. Great input, we appreciate your postings.
Bill
Bill
I think Andy was talking about resistance only
2 wires side by side would be make a cap.
gary
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@ Gary:
What I mean about the disk shaped core is this: Picture the pancake winding wound around a core the thickness of the two wires stacked upon each other in bifilar fashion. So, if each wire is .125" diameter, then stacked they would be .250". The "core" in my idea would then be a round piece of iron 1/4" thick by whatever diameter you wanted. Or, in your stacking scenario, you would simply slide the multiple pancakes over a center pole (rod) for the core. Am I explaining this better?
Bill
Bill
I got it ...............thanks
gary
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guys staking pancakes sounds great!!!!!!!!!!!! IM hungry Ill save the pancake stack for discussion on another day L.O.L {N N} andy
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Gary, Footage of wire is where the voltage is for example a 24 foot solid copper rod in the ground is 24 volts.
PLOP! goes the strawberry.Same with the free electrons.Andy McQuerry
So now hold the maple syrup and pass the strawberries ;D ;D
Andy, I thought from reading the patent that just a bigger diameter does the trick and we really don't need to make 2 layers. right?
I think this is another whole avenue for research.
What have you made from this patent? It seems really strong to me. just wind more wire to make it longer bigger diameter and wow.
and it is all insulated so just do it. no wrapping. I better go to sleep! ;)
thanks Andy
jeanna
I am going to wind mine with insulated wire .because I am focusing on non galvanic
I think it would be a good idea for someone to use cotton and see how it does wet .
This is not going to be as easy as it sounds .
The people on the other site had lots of trouble winding good sized pancake coils.
gary
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@ Gary:
Yes, I agree. I will see if I can get some more wire and give it a go. I have to re-think the cotton in between the wires for this one. My trick with the string will not work as far as I can see. And yes, I agree, it will not be easy, but hey, that has never stopped us before has it? I will think on this some while trying to sleep. This could be an entire new direction for us. We will see.
Bill
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@ Gary:
Yes, I agree. I will see if I can get some more wire and give it a go. I have to re-think the cotton in between the wires for this one. My trick with the string will not work as far as I can see. And yes, I agree, it will not be easy, but hey, that has never stopped us before has it? I will think on this some while trying to sleep. This could be an entire new direction for us. We will see.
Bill
I agree ........we might be on to something here.
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@ Gary:
I was thinking, for what you were going to try it would be easy to use lamp cord. (Better known as zip cord) This is available by the foot at most home supply stores. It is just two copper wires that are insulated and stacked one on top of the other already. Since it is flat, you could just stand it up on its side and wind away. It is made of stranded copper not solid though, not sure what, if any, difference this might make.
I think I thought of a way to wind my pancake coil using the cotton string as before. I like the idea of making the "jig" using two disks. This might not be too bad to wind. I guess I will find out.
Bill
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@ All:
We had another aftershock this morning at 12:22 a.m. This earthquake stuff is getting weird. I hope my buried coil is not upsetting the balance of plate tectonics. (Grin)
Bill
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@ All:
We had another aftershock this morning at 12:22 a.m. This earthquake stuff is getting weird. I hope my buried coil is not upsetting the balance of plate tectonics. (Grin)
Bill
Bill
If the next aftershock is centered closer to your house.............RUN FOR YOUR LIFE !!!!!! :)
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I think I came up with a way to make pancake coils that is pretty simple ........ reasonably durable and usable on both insulated and cotton wrapped wire .
I am thinking of " sewing" the coil on to a plastic mesh of some kind .
If you have ever really looked at how a sewing machine works ...... it is pretty simple .
The needle goes through the fabric ....... into the base of the sewing machine .......of course it caries a thread with it . ......... as the needle starts to withdraw ....a loop starts to form in the thread .
This loop is pretty predictable ..... we could pass a " bobbin " though the loop and pull both threads tight ......then move on an inch or 2 ...........every 5 or 6 stitches it might be a good idea to make an extra stitch or 2 to act as a knot in case a thread brakes or something .
more details later .......on backing , needles and stuff
gary
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Hi All,
(wow I am glad I went to sleep when I did. It all makes sense to me this morning.)
Gary
This loop is pretty predictable ..... we could pass a " bobbin " though the loop and pull both threads tight ......then move on an inch or 2 ...........every 5 or 6 stitches it might be a good idea to make an extra stitch or 2 to act as a knot in case a thread brakes or something .
more details later .......on backing , needles and stuff
gary
This is a really excellent suggestion - idea.
You can get el cheapo embroidery backing in the crafts section somewhere. Also, the name for the real backing for rugs or embroidery is "huck". Huck is a type of weave structure but this rug item has been called huck for a long time. The stiffness of these backings will make it easier.
Once a hippie boot maker showed me how to make that 2 thread loop.
He used a sewing awl which is a fat sewing machine needle attached to a handle that houses a bobbin of thread.
There was another source of thread which stayed on the bottom in a separate bobbin.
First, using the awl, he poked the threaded needle through the cloth
Then he pulled the needle back a little which made a loop.
Then he threaded the second thread (bottom thread) through this loop.
Then he pulled the needle back to the top side which pulled this loop with its extra thread to the center of the leather.
Then he made the knot snug by tugging the thread from all directions.
then he started the next stitch by poking the awl fron the top again... etc.
Gary, this is a great idea. I have been hand sewing the cotton around the layers in chad's design on the last 3 coils and sewing really works. It makes a very secure wrap with little effort or cost.
EDIT:
I just remembered another way.
Thread one piece of thread onto 2 needles and poke through the cloth.
Bring the thread to its center point in the middle of the cloth.
now sew from both sides into the next spot one from the top and one from the bottom and that is the first stitch.
Then move on to the next spot and sew from both sides again.
jeanna
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@ All:
I just checked my coil outside today and the numbers are still pretty good and holding as follows:
.94 vdc
1.3 vac
68 mA
Bill
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Here (should be) a picture from yesterday's tests. You should be able to see my buried coil. This test was made using the carbon rod for the + and the core of the coil for the -. (This site is really hanging up today, I have been having problems posting anything) This shows 1.32 VDC.
Bill
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This shows 1.9 volts AC.
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This shows 47.2 mA. It is much higher now (68 mA) and had continued increasing yesterday after this was taken. I hope it is higher tomorrow. Note: this reading is taken from just the coil only between the core and the cu wire.
Bill
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just checked my coil outside today and the numbers are still pretty good and holding as follows:
Bill
I just noticed that you said you were reporting numbers for voltage across the 5cu wire and the core bolt. Is that what you have always checked? ??? not between the 10's or 5.6?
Maybe I need to learn how to read? :-[
I checked mine in spite of the snow. (It melted off already.)
So now, just for the dc voltage, the dcvoltage was higher on 3 out of the 4 but lower on one of them. I wonder if it is cycling very slowly? what if the frequency is under 10 cycles per MINUTE or HOUR?
When I was playing with the sliders on that RLC chart, I noticed that when the resistance was too high the oscillation would stop. After one spike the curve would just slowly get lower over time.
What if this is what we have?
Any EE's want to venture a thought? like how we would find out?
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Way back near the beginning of Joe's topic somewhere there was a post about some Russian scientists that measured the frequency of the earth's electrical energy at 5 cycles per second. Very low.
I have always checked all of my measurements from the cu to the core, or the fe to the core. Never (almost never) any of the wires to each other. On my first coil, I leaned to do it this way as the readings are always higher, much higher between these two points. Now, yesterday, just for the hell of it I did check and still, very low numbers. Something like.49 vdc and 10 mA's. It is the same exact readings no matter which two wires I use. (Not iron to iron or cu to cu of course) I mean if I use the ones from the beginning of the wind or the end, same readings exactly. I like the numbers better from the core!!!! If you look closely in the pics you can see my little alligator clip attached to the head of the core. Hard to see as my pics lose so much resolution from being reduced to 50kb. You can also see the earth is damp but not soaked, even drier today and my numbers are heading the right way. A friend of mine just stopped by and I just hooked up the meter to show him the coil. I told him to read off the numbers on the amps setting. He said, "Holy crap!! that just read 82mA's"! That is my highest mA reading to date. Now, it jumped down to 72 real fast but he could not believe it.
Bill
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@ Gary:
I was thinking, for what you were going to try it would be easy to use lamp cord. (Better known as zip cord) This is available by the foot at most home supply stores. It is just two copper wires that are insulated and stacked one on top of the other already. Since it is flat, you could just stand it up on its side and wind away. It is made of stranded copper not solid though, not sure what, if any, difference this might make.
I think I thought of a way to wind my pancake coil using the cotton string as before. I like the idea of making the "jig" using two disks. This might not be too bad to wind. I guess I will find out.
Bill
Bill
for a copper / copper pancake zip wire might be ok ............but the insulation is a little thick
maybe speaker wire would be better ......or better monster speaker wire .
gary
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I have decided to rebuild my original coil into a pancake coil .
I am going to leave the insulation the same so it is more of a apples to apples comarison
I found at Lowes what to me might be almost idea for a backing for the bigger wires at least .
It is PVC hardware net . ........ it was right next to the chicken wire .
The kind I got has about 1/2 in spaces in between ..........maybe to far apart for the smaller wires ............but Jeanna knows about other backings .
I am going to use waxed dental floss for thread . it is very strong ........and the wax will tend to keep it from slipping
for a needle I will be using 1/4 in polyethylene tubing .......a straw would work for a while ...... but this tubing is alot stronger .
gary
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@ Gary:
Well, in the big scheme of things, still very small, but in our world, pretty decent amps reading. You are right about the thick insulation on the zip cord but yes, speaker wire was something I thought of a little later and possibly, there is something else even better. I just thought it would be easier since they are already insulated from each other and side by side, which could be turned to be top and bottom. You might check at a home center where they have many types of wire on spools...Lowe's, Home depot, etc. Not much in the way of electronics supplies there but, we might find something
in home electrics that would suit our purposes.
I saw your post about my urinating on my coil. Don't rule that out just yet. If I thought it might raise the mA readings, I would do it in a heartbeat. Ha ha. I just hope it keeps slowly creeping up.
Bill
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@ Gary:
Well, in the big scheme of things, still very small, but in our world, pretty decent amps reading. You are right about the thick insulation on the zip cord but yes, speaker wire was something I thought of a little later and possibly, there is something else even better. I just thought it would be easier since they are already insulated from each other and side by side, which could be turned to be top and bottom. You might check at a home center where they have many types of wire on spools...Lowe's, Home depot, etc. Not much in the way of electronics supplies there but, we might find something
in home electrics that would suit our purposes.
I saw your post about my urinating on my coil. Don't rule that out just yet. If I thought it might raise the mA readings, I would do it in a heartbeat. Ha ha. I just hope it keeps slowly creeping up.
Bill
Bill
Right now I am going to keep working on copper / iron pancake coils .... maybe later I will do one or 2 with copper / copper just to see how much different they are from each other.
gary
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I have always checked all of my measurements from the cu to the core, or the fe to the core. Never (almost never) any of the wires to each other. On my first coil, I leaned to do it this way as the readings are always higher, much higher between these two points. Now, yesterday, just for the hell of it I did check and still, very low numbers.
that just read 82mA's"! That is my highest mA reading to date. Now, it jumped down to 72 real fast but he could not believe it.
Bill
Well well,
I have only always read between the 10's or 5,6. The reading is the same so it doesn't matter, just as you say.
I just never noticed that you were doing this this way. Your pics are perfectly clear. I just never noticed. I wonder what everyone else has been measuring?
---------
next question,
After 72mA what does it do? does it stabilize? If you keep looking at it does it just slowly continue to go down?
Now My new dmm does the same thing but I don't ever check it with anything but NS coils. I have never been sure if this is a meter anomaly or the real thing.
If it is that curve that starts as a spike then falls and keeps going which is what it looks like, then it is following the curve of that RLC calculator for high resistance in an oscillator circuit. It goes up, but never gets the chance to oscillate because it never goes to zero..
There is one other item to mention that maybe is important. I learned from reading Tesla's pancake patent #512340 yesterday that a coil produces what he called "self-induction" which means that it damps the vibes, maybe this thing in this NS battery is what Tesla was calling self-induction. He says it comes from the coils as well as the conductors.
So, what Tesla describes as self-induction may be producing the same effect as the resistance I was playing with on that RLC circuit design program.
And if that first spike is real, then I have much higher numbers to report. I always wait for it to settle or I just figure it will go to zero. I ought to look closely at some of my notes to see if any ever climbed back up.
Good going, Bill, this might start to come together soon.
jeanna
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Guys, The Tesla Bifilar does not have "self induction" so you can take it out of the equasion.Tesla said at sea level the earths frequency was 12 hz,compairded to a earth quake it is 2.5 which is a huge wave.Now getting the sea level and above sea level can be found at the ariport in your area.A 6 inch pancake coil resonates at 2mhz.Larger coils resonates at a lower frequency.Most all my coils are #8 copper as per Tesla.19-27 makes nice pancakes.I have wanted to make one at 16.6 because I think it would be a harmonic of the shawman frequency.I just use super glue and a hair dryer and cardboard and spin two different color wires.This is simple to me.One of my designs on a different type of generator can be found at( www.geocities.com/phononstring ) the name of the site is Teslas Secrets.Regards Andy
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@ Jeanna:
First, I believe that NS described in his patent (one of them) that this is a self inducting induction coil. I remember Hans speaking of that as well...Joe too. This may be the difference between Tesla and Stubblefield designs, I don't know.
About the meter. I have not double checked in a while but for a bit I was using both analog and digital meters to check results. Everything was always the same including the ac readings so now I just use the digital. My understanding of the way meters check amps is that it is placed as a load in the circuit. This is why the numbers drop. I think those initial readings are real, to a point, as they may not be useful power in the long run. I have always looked at those, mostly where it stabilizes and then drops off in a regular manner. In other words...I test my cell...boom..it shows 82mA....1...2...3...seconds it reads 71........3 seconds later it reads 70..........then 69....68...and so on. I never left it hooked up but I guess i felt it would go to 0. Maybe not. Maybe it will stop dropping at 5 or something. Joe reported similar happenings with some of his tests as I remember he made that comment on my first video. OK, I just now quickly tested an AAA battery for amps: .54 A......3 seconds.... .53... then .52..... and then .51. It appeared to stop dropping at about .49 amps. This was just a quick test. So, tomorrow, I will leave the meter hooked to the coil and see how low it goes and report back. Maybe I should have done this all along. I just thought the meter was shorting it (like placing a wire to the + and- of an AA battery) and it would go to 0 eventually. I learn something new here every day. when I take my photos, it is still dropping slowly but the meter can be photographed. The initial spike we see happens and is over before I can get my camera into position. Still, whatever the results, we still are not dealing with much power here and we need to fix that. I still feel like I am stumbling along in the dark here, but, I feel like progress is being made. My higher mA numbers (from spikes or not) are still higher than they were so at least we are going the right way. the vdc is lower with these coils Jeanna, have you noticed that? I was going to post some of my pics from the old electrode days and I just saw one that was over 2 volts dc. But, I have always heard, power is everything, if we get power, we can get volts. Great questions Jeanna.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
First, I believe that NS described in his patent (one of them) that this is a self inducting induction coil. I remember Hans speaking of that as well...Joe too. This may be the difference between Tesla and Stubblefield designs, I don't know.
Yes, I think it is just useage or archaic or something language related. I think he was meaning eddy currents or something like that when he solved the problem of self induction with this pancake.
Here is the quote:
"In electric aparatus or systems inwhich alternating currents are employed, the self-induction of the coils or conductors may, and in fact, in many cases does operate disadvantageously by giving rise to false currents which often reduce what is known as the commercial efficiency..."
He goes on to say that it can be neutralized by better proportions and capacitors. And the point of the invention was to do away with the clumsy capacitor.
I haven't worked with this stuff but it sounds like eddy currents to me. So the use of the term self-induction has been changed over time, I think.
Bill,
I am glad you brought it up. I just had to put it together for myself to state it here.
About the meter. I have not double checked in a while but for a bit I was using both analog and digital meters to check results. Everything was always the same including the ac readings so now I just use the digital. Bill
I bought one from rs but the resolution is even worse than my dmm. all I can read on my dmm for vac is .1v. I need one of those with a sweep dial that has a resolution of .001vac.
I saw that a wheatstone bridge is something that those early electric guys used. It is cool.
Search for it on google. I read 3 papers on it yesterday. It is sort of like what Jim electricme seems to be making. A cool device. mm more stuff.
The thing you can't get from the dmm is a sweep of a needle that shows the fluctuations of the V or Amps changing. I kind of thing it is what we need, but where to find an ancient ammeter? make one? probably. (this is fun)
jeanna
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Guys, The Tesla Bifilar does not have "self induction"
Thanks Andy,
I realize that. He invented a solution to this self induction when he invented the pancake coil.
But I think the Stubblefield coil does have plenty. lots of eddy currents - whatever to do about that I don't know.
A 6 inch pancake coil resonates at 2mhz.Larger coils resonates at a lower frequency.
Now that is a very interesting piece of information.
Andy, Do you know how to relate this coil with a "normal" or helical coil? With your experiments, do you have a guess about what coil dimensions or length of wire or something we can use, will give us this or any particular frequency?
We are not making even normal bifilar coils because one of the "fila's" is iron. Plus it has a soft iron core. But it would be really nice to have a starting place.
One of my designs on a different type of generator can be found at( www.geocities.com/phononstring ) the name of the site is Teslas Secrets.Regards Andy
I just went to your cool site.
Is there any way to make a pdf of your design so we can see it here?
Thanks for being here.
jeanna
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Jenna e-mail me and i will send you a copy of my engine i dont quite know how to foward to this site copy and paste dont work
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Jenna, My e-mail address is (phononstring@yahoo.com)
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@ Jeanna:
I am currently (no pun intended) running the experiment we discussed. I checked my mA's this morning and they were down. Volts were as well. The initial results prior to my load test were as follows:
.69 vdc
39 mA
I hooked the meter up about ten minutes ago using my clips from my test leads with the meter on the 200 mA scale. Within 1 minute, the mA's were down to 30. I just checked and they are now down to 21 mA. Very slowly falling, but still falling. (Total test time as of this post is 16 minutes) I want to see how far it will fall. I will let you know. I don't know why everything was so low this morning but it is what it is. I am sort of hoping that after the load test, it will bounce back even higher than before......maybe?
I have evidence to suggest that the meter readings on the mA spikes are not a meter anomaly. Remember all of those fuses I had been blowing? (They are very hard to find in this town) I went through three of them. Prior to burying my coil, the mA's were consistent at about 19. Well, I was used to using the 20 mA scale when checking amps because, as you know, my electrodes were only producing 5-9 mA toward the end. The coil at 19 mA was very steady there in the house. Well, here is what I think happened. Once I got it good and wet, and it had sat for a bit, I tested it and ...poof...blown fuse. It happened again about a week later. Finally, after blowing one last fuse, I figured out (duh) that I should probably be using the 200 mA scale so I did. The coil was still consistant at 19 mA BUT I saw a spike of 30 mA for about 3 seconds then it settled to 19. This spike was real power, I believe, because it was blowing the fuses. Do you agree? I was not able to see it go over 20 when I was on the 20 scale because it would blow the fuse.
So, I believe that when I see mA's in the 90's or upper 80's, that is real, for as long as it lasts.
Now my test has been running for almost 30 minutes. I will run out and check the meter.
15.7 mA and holding! I watched the meter for a full minute. Not moving downward any more. I will leave it hooked up for a while longer and see. When I conclude the test, I will check the volts, which I expect will be way down. As I said earlier, maybe this will "draw" more power from somewhere? I will see how long it takes to recover, and what the numbers are then as well.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
OK, I ran the test for one hour and here is the results: 14.9 mA. I am letting it go for a bit longer just in case. (Will this run my battery down in the meter?) Then I will wait with everything unhooked and check later this afternoon to see if it recovered, and by how much. I am still searching for my records on this coil that you inquired about in the other topic. (Number of winds, etc) I will post them when they are located. (I know I have them....somewhere)
OK, I just disconnected everything and checked the volts: .66 vdc. Then, after about 1 minute after disconnection, the mA's were back up to 38, and were falling...slowly counting down. As I said, I will re-check this afternoon. I don't know what any of this means but, it may be useful data somewhere along the line.
Have you ever left your meter hooked up on the amps setting for any extended period of time? It would be interesting to see. I thought it would go to 0 but it did not. At least, not in an hour anyway.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
OK, I ran the test for one hour and here is the results: 14.9 mA.
OK, I just disconnected everything and checked the volts: .66 vdc. Then, after about 1 minute after disconnection, the mA's were back up to 38, and were falling...slowly counting down.
Yes, this is just what I have been seeing and trying to describe. I am so glad you are repeating it.
I thought it would go to 0 but it did not. At least, not in an hour anyway.
right.
I will return shortly. I will go to the RLC chart java page. I plan to get some screenshots to show you the curve I think we are seeing. oh thank you , Bill!
jeanna
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That page is a lot of fun. I have trouble tearing myself away from just one more slide.
So, here are 2 pics that will show what I am talking about.
The picture itself shows what the sliders are set to and the name of the file is telling the slider that I changed.
all right no pdf here they are as gif to read here
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Wow! that is interesting...I think those curves look a bit familiar almost. But, what is this telling us? I do not understand all of the relationships on that program. What do you think we are seeing here? Thanks.
Bill
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What do you think we are seeing here? Thanks.
Bill
the short answer is I dunno; but I have a couple of ideas.
As you said the curves look familiar.
Here is how I got those 2 curves.
The applet starts at a certain point and I put the voltage to what I see .8vdc is close enough. then I moved the R to 1.7R because that is the resistance in the iron wire. no other reason. a place to start.
Changing the capacitance changes it slowly so I just left it.
Then I changed the L to get an amperage that is in range 86mA. --- but look at the frequency. 8KHz.
I don't know what a meter can see etc, so I move the resistance slider up 10x (a click away) and there is no longer any oscillation. It is just one peak then the line slowly decreases to off the chart small.
So, I think this is what we are seeing.
My plan:
Inside I don't get a Resistance to the bolt. It is infinitly high, I guess. When I go outside I will check my R to the bolt .
[Edit:
I do get voltage to the bolt. and a loud crackling with the sound detector. I keep thinking THIS is the connection that will give us the make and break. Not 5.6 or the 10's - but the wire to the bolt. so it may be where the capacitance is best expressed in this coil.]
Then I will plug that figure into this applet. Then I have only to move the L slider til I get this point of no oscillation.
The next step will be to go to that wire/inductance applet that you found on that radio site, and back into the number of turns and wire size and I think that may give us a starting place!
jeanna
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I spent alot of time last night trying to rebuild my original coil into a pancake .
It turns out that my idea of using dental floss or sting to sew the wires to the backing didn't work out .
Dental floss is not near strong enough .........and it slips more than I expected ............so it turns out to be a nightmare of trying to get the next stitch in place without the last few stitches loosing up to much ........
HOWEVER ....... I went out and got some small ( 4 in ) wire ties .
It is going to take a bunch of them ........but it is easy and allows for very accurate placement of the wires .
The ties work MUCH better than I hoped .........and the coil will not be delicate ...... It looks like I could toss the finished coil across the room with no damage .
I am going to take a break from winding a while .............. got some other things I want to do today ..... ( its nice outside :) )
I hope to have a few readings from my new pancake coil before I go to bed tonight.
gary
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Jeanna
I think what the image shows is what is called ring down
If you hit a resonant circuit with a pulse it rings like a bell .
As you have already noticed .....resistance can dampen this ringing very quickly.
I found a calculator for resonance ......but yours is better . can you post the URL for it ?
gary
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Jeanna
I think what the image shows is what is called ring down
can you post the URL for it ?
gary
here is the calculator page. see you in a week. ;D ;D the whole site is fun,
but please first, tell me again , what do you think?
there is a continuing frequency with 1.7R but to move to 17.7R there is only one peak? Please explain this ring down again.
Is that the thing / combo that we are looking for? I figured not.
Ringing is what I think we are looking for, isn't it?
please explain this , or give it a go anyway?
thanks
jeanna
http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm (http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm)
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@ Jeanna:
I copied and pasted this from your coilgun site in case you didn't see it. It speaks of ringing. I ran the simulator a few times. Very cool. Thanks for sharing it with us.
"Role of Resistance
The graph's shape is very sensitive to resistance. At rather high resistance it is the main limiting factor on the current in the inductor, and you see the capacitor merely discharges slowly. At medium resistance you will see one lump of coil current which quickly dies out. At very low resistance it will ring (oscillate) as the energy sloshes from capacitor to inductor and back again.
One goal during construction is to minimize the resistance. Don't be too worried about ringing in a coilgun, because the projectile should absorb most of the coil's energy, leaving only a small amount for ringing. If you use an SCR to switch the coil then it will cut off after the first half cycle leaving the excess energy stored in the capacitor again, helping to prepare it for the next firing."
Bill
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@Bill,
good addition, thanks. Yes, it is a good place to spend an afternoon.
The thing we really cannot do much about is resistance. We can use fat wire and that is all. Using fat wire does nothing for resistance between the 2 different wires, or the wire to bolt resistance or the earth resistance for that matter.
I think this is where I started wanting to know if there could be a way to tweek the magnetism and not have to deal with the resistance, hence I asked myself what role the thickness of the iron wire played in our coils. Also, I used a hollow steel pipe.
BTW that hollow steel pipe produces the best readings. It is the one that gave a steady 18.9 mA inside. That reading went down with the addition of the secondary as they all do, but it is still the best.
Who knows if it is the hollow-ness or the larger diameter that is doing this?
I am not finished with the triplet of coils that looks at the thickness of the wires vs. magnetism question. So, there is more to come. :D
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
I just now tried a trick I used on the electrode set-up in the very beginning. I stuck a very powerful neo magnet on the top of my core and took readings. NO changes of any kind were observed in volts or amps. In the electrode experiment, the volts went up a bit.
This, as you know, is over my head with the concept of ringing/oscillating. Were you suggesting that, assuming this concept does apply to our coils, this wave form peaks at the beginning and would peak again IF it had the chance to get to zero? (or equally below the baseline as it was at the peak) I have been thinking about that. It almost sounds to me like we could use, 1. a capacitor, and 2. possibly a transistor to accomplish this? What do you think? I was thinking along the Bedini line of thought.
Bill
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neo magnet on the top of my core and took readings. NO changes of any kind
well I think a steady magnet won't do anything to this cuz i dunno.
Over your head? I guess we are all getting taller fast around here! ;D
concept of ringing/oscillating.
I need to understand this more. no, I wasn't talking about that because I don't know enough... yet.
this wave form peaks at the beginning and would peak again IF it had the chance to get to zero?
But on the pic with the higher resistance, it stops oscillating all together. You can see that it was oscillating by looking at the other pic. and gradually the osc changed until it hit that higher resistance and it stopped. At the same time, the amperage goes down which is the bummer.
1. a capacitor
I have played with caps but I don't really know how to make a circuit with the RLC. I keep going back to those sites so some day I will get it. I think the spark gap thing folks were talking about is the result of the cap, but i dunno. ???
2. possibly a transistor to accomplish this? What do you think? I was thinking along the Bedini line of thought
.
I love transistors. I think the earth is going to see a lot of charge in the coming years. Sunspots etc. They could blast a transistor, esp one in the open air so, I want to avoid them only for that reason.
jeanna
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here is the calculator page. see you in a week. ;D ;D the whole site is fun,
but please first, tell me again , what do you think?
there is a continuing frequency with 1.7R but to move to 17.7R there is only one peak? Please explain this ring down again.
Is that the thing / combo that we are looking for? I figured not.
Ringing is what I think we are looking for, isn't it?
please explain this , or give it a go anyway?
thanks
jeanna
http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm (http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm)
Jeanna
I think it is a pretty good example of ring down and how resistance affects resonant ciruuits .
think of the top chart as ringing a large bell
Now ............think of the second chart as ringing the same bell while holding your hand on the bell
thanks for the URL I will look at it later .
I ended up working on my new coil rather than going out earlier today
The readings are not very good .
I can't remember the dry readings .......I took some but didn't write them down ..... I wasn't very impressed .
Wet it is at .369 V DC
The first current reading was .194 mA I will wait a few minutes and see what it goes down to .
gary
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I love transistors. I think the earth is going to see a lot of charge in the coming years. Sunspots etc. They could blast a transistor, esp one in the open air so, I want to avoid them only for that reason.
jeanna
I am trying to avoid transisters too .
gary
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The first current reading was .194 mA I will wait a few minutes and see what it goes down to .
gary
Isn't the current supposed to drop after the first surge ?
my pancake is at .274 mA after about 20 min ...... it has been wet over an hour
gary
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I think it is a pretty good example of ring down and how resistance affects resonant ciruuits
think of the top chart as ringing a large bell
Now ............think of the second chart as ringing the same bell while holding your hand on the bell
So, does this mean that the magic of the ringing is to find the combo of all the parts that allows a coil to resonate?
At all?
It isn't that there are regular resonances and then there are those that ring?
learned another new thing today.
please confirm for me if this is right. thanks.
jeanna
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So, does this mean that the magic of the ringing is to find the combo of all the parts that allows a coil to resonate?
At all?
It isn't that there are regular resonances and then there are those that ring?
learned another new thing today.
please confirm for me if this is right. thanks.
jeanna
Jeanna
There are different kinds of resonance ...........but resonance is resonance ........it is all about ringing
Another way I have heard resonance described ........it is like electrons " sloshing " back and forth between the cap and the coil . anything that can affect the sloshing will effect the resonance, but in general resistance is usually a big factor
HHHhhhhmmmm I have been watching the current on my pancake for a little over an hour ..........it is .714 mA now .
and still going up
gary
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@ Gary:
Up is the right direction, I hope it keeps going.
Bill
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HHHhhhhmmmm I have been watching the current on my pancake for a little over an hour ..........it is .714 mA now .
and still going up
gary
Nice.
How are you doing this? just probes on either end?
And it is growing with the help of nothing?
did I miss the whole circuit here? just the pancake?
jeanna
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i guess i posted in the wrong thead for this topic
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HHHhhhhmmmm I have been watching the current on my pancake for a little over an hour ..........it is .714 mA now .
and still going up
gary
Nice.
How are you doing this? just probes on either end?
And it is growing with the help of nothing?
did I miss the whole circuit here? just the pancake?
jeanna
Jeanna
I don't have any core at all .......I am just measuring between the copper and iron .
doesn't seem to matter what end .
The only thing I did is get it wet
The reading for the current isn't changing much anymore . It is on 1.124 mA
If I leave it set for voltage it starts around .340 and slowly goes up to around .505 V DC
There doesn't seem to be any AC ..... that is strange because when I was winding it there was more AC than DC
I will try to get a picture online tomorow
gary
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@ Gary:
More ac than dc? Yes, I would like to know more about this. This was while winding? I wonder what might have changed? I look forward to your pictures.
Bill
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@ All:
I was going through my picture file and rediscovered this one. (It was previously posted on the earth battery topic by me) Do those coils on the left not look strangely like the pancake coils we have been talking about? This is from an old patent. I can find the info if everyone thinks it might be important. I would have never made the connection back then, but in view of our current (no pun intended) discussions, and with the additional knowledge I have gained, this stood out to me. What do you all think?
Bill
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Do those coils on the left not look strangely like the pancake coils we have been talking about? This is from an old patent.
Bill
Yes, they do.
In patent 512340, Tesla mentions the previous way of making a bifilar pancake coil on which his an improvement. Perhaps this is the one to which he refers??
Nice to read this.
Just getting my hands on this stuff has informed me so much. I never could do anything with this patent before. I will study this. Interesting that they are strung together isn't it?
I am wondering about the way the NS coil bubbles and self destructs if you run battery juice through the primary wires. I was thinking about that when boosting the coil with the external carbon rods on the + and mag block on the - . I wonder about it now.
This is also appears to be hollow - no core piece like Gary's a little.
I wonder if that makes a difference to the bubbling.
EDIT:
I just downloaded the patent and those are sheets of metal made in a spiral. He is basically making probes in the ground and spacing them far apart. So, perhaps it is just a galvanic battery after all. UNLESS sheets in a coil have some special EM effect beyond just being sheets of metal. too bad, maybe
Thank you,
jeanna
-
@ Gary:
More ac than dc? Yes, I would like to know more about this. This was while winding? I wonder what might have changed? I look forward to your pictures.
Bill
Bill
I dried my pancake out ...... no wonder I didn't remember any readings .
I get 0 V DC dry ..........008 V AC ......now on my meter .....it reads .007 V AC with nothing attached to the leads .
There may be something strange going on .......I knew there was a short in my original coil somehere .
I kept checking continuity as I wound it because of that . I checked the voltage at the same time .
I remember getting readings of .010 V DC and .025 V AC when I was around half way through .
At the time I thought .......the readings are going up pretty good . it looks like it should have readings similar to my origainal coil .
WHen I got to the part of the copper that had been around the outer part of the coil .........it was a little beat up ......so I wrapped another layer of fiberglass around it ......and then didn't do any more continuity tests .
My pancake is about 12.5 in across the hole in the center is about 3 in
I have spent a couple hours trying different connections
My gut feelings about it is ........ it is a very good ...........something or other.
My gut feeling also tells me that it doesn't like to play alone .
I guess I am going to have to make another one soon .
gary
I tried to add a picture of my pancake
I will add it IF I can get it resized .
This 50 KB thing really sucks
I have spent the last half hour trying to resize it ...... I have been using the program Stefan suggested in another thread . ......I guess it was programed in German .....it makes no sense to me .
At the moment if sounds like a better idea to start my own site rather than waste more time playing silly resizing games
-
@ All:
I was going through my picture file and rediscovered this one. (It was previously posted on the earth battery topic by me) Do those coils on the left not look strangely like the pancake coils we have been talking about? This is from an old patent. I can find the info if everyone thinks it might be important. I would have never made the connection back then, but in view of our current (no pun intended) discussions, and with the additional knowledge I have gained, this stood out to me. What do you all think?
Bill
Bill
This looks interesting
my first observation ......... it is wired different than Teslas He connected the end of the A wire with the start of the B ....
I am going to go read the patent
gary
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Bill
This looks interesting
my first observation ......... it is wired different than Teslas He connected the end of the A wire with the start of the B ....
I am going to go read the patent
gary
Not to much new there .
Except a cheeper way to build a large cell ........and clarifacation on spacing
I had read the 6 ft rule in a couple places ........
This guy says that they should be far apart .......even farther if they are driving a high resistance load .
I remember reading that Stubblfield said that the farther apart the better .
gary
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I tried to add a picture of my pancake
I will add it IF I can get it resized .
This 50 KB thing really sucks
I have spent the last half hour trying to resize it ...... I have been using the program Stefan suggested in another thread
Here is Gary's pic:
jeanna
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use faststone image viewer or faststone image resizer: http://www.faststone.org/
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use faststone image viewer or faststone image resizer: http://www.faststone.org/
Thanks Ckreol
I will check it out
Thanks for posting the pic for me Jeanna
gary
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use faststone image viewer or faststone image resizer: http://www.faststone.org/
Ckreol
It works great :)
thanks
It only took a couple minutes to figure out how to resize a picture
gary
Thanks for posting the pic for me Jeanna
gary
-
I stayed up and made a small pancake with leftover wire .
The wires are around 5 ft each .
The dry readings are similar to the original .......pretty much 0
I am checking to see how they do together wet .
The first reading was .130 V DC
Reading current seems to help the readings go higher .
I am taking that one step more .
I am using a jumper to short out between the copper and iron .
After being shorted out a little over a half hour the voltage is .650 and going up.
( both coils in parallel )
I used 12 strands of rebar tye wire for the iron
The first time I sanded the black off the wire .......not real fun.
This time I just used it as is .......... it was just a little oily ........ but it seems ti be working ok
gary
-
@ Gary:
Nice coils. About the rebar tie wire, did you test it with a magnet? I almost used that but when I was in the home building supply store, my magnet (neo) had very little attraction to it. (Not much iron in it) I found some fence wire that it was hard to pull my magnet off of so I used it instead. I am not a chemist but I figure if it is strong on a magnet, must be a lot of iron content. Same with the rebar I almost used for my core, very little attraction. So I used the galvanized (zinc coated) spikes which were also strong magnet pull. I am sure all of these products vary from supplier to supplier and place to place. Just a thought for you.
Bill
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Gary,
What happens when you hook it up the way Tesla invented. He said it was a great improvement over the previous way.
Make the inside copper wire longer enough to attach to the outside iron wire. Then I guess you will be left with just 1 pair of leads.(makes things easier for me ;D ).
Tesla said what he was improving was the self dampening (I chose that word) effect of the pancake coil. I am assuming there is a similar dampening with this bifilar pancake.
I promise to wind my own ;) , but I would love to know the difference sooner.
jeanna
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@ Gary:
Nice coils. About the rebar tie wire, did you test it with a magnet? I almost used that but when I was in the home building supply store, my magnet (neo) had very little attraction to it. (Not much iron in it) I found some fence wire that it was hard to pull my magnet off of so I used it instead. I am not a chemist but I figure if it is strong on a magnet, must be a lot of iron content. Same with the rebar I almost used for my core, very little attraction. So I used the galvanized (zinc coated) spikes which were also strong magnet pull. I am sure all of these products vary from supplier to supplier and place to place. Just a thought for you.
Bill
Bill
I just checked my rebar tie wire ...... my neo's stick pretty good . good enough that I could not pull them off with slightly sweaty fingers
Has anyone else been shorting out their coils for a while to get the current up ?
Mine has been shorted most of the time for around 6 hrs now .
WHen I disconnect the jumper the current readings go up pretty fast ........then level off ......... amd then slowly drop a little .
The peak this time was 1.395 mA ........... after about 5 min it is holding at 1.391 mA
I am going to leave for a couple hours ........I think I will leave it shorted
gary
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Gary,
I don't have any core at all .......I am just measuring between the copper and iron .
doesn't seem to matter what end .
The only thing I did is get it wet
even the inside of one to the outside of the other?
jeanna
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@ Gary:
I am glad you checked with the magnet. I know that saved me a lot of problems on my first two coil attempts. I am going to try to get some more wire this week to try one of these.
Maybe I should try shorting my buried coil for a while? Hmmm. I'll try anything to up the output. I believe Chad has our mA record here with almost 150. This is getting somewhere.
Bill
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Greetings, I just discovered your great thread & find it all very interesting. I notice that you are getting a different meter reading on AC than on DC.
I am wondering if that is due to your Coil TRYING to tap into the AC Aether Vortex (about 100 KHz AC), rather than plain Galvanic DC action. Here is a way to determine if it is AC:
1. Make your Coil with insulated wire, NOT bare wire. Magnet Wire is fine.
2. Wind the Coil on a non metal core, such as cardboard or plastic.
3. The larger the diameter (at Least 3" or 7 mm), the HIGHER the Voltage.
A round cereal box (like Quaker Oats) is great.
4. Try placing a Plain, Non Polarized capacitor in SERIES between your meter & Coil.
A Cap will pass AC, but block DC. A Plain, Non Polarized Cap does NOT have a + or - markings.
5. Turn your Meter to AC Volts.
6. Try placing the Coil in different places, such as a hole in the ground, in a plastic bucket of water, etc.
7. Give it AT LEAST 30 MINUTES in each place to maximize the voltage in each place.
Floyd Sweet just had a rotating Aether Vortex spinning between the 2 flat magnets. Edwin Gray had it spinning inside his special tube. Hubbard had it spinning inside his circumference of pulsing electromagnets. The TESTATICA Device has it spinning inside the two large cans. SM had it spinning inside sequentially pulsing control coils arranged in a Toroid. These are just different ways of accomplishing the same thing.
It is entirely possible that your Earth Battery Coils are TRYING to tap into the Aether Vortex Spin?
==============================================================
FOR THE NON-TECHNICAL: A Non Polarized Cap can be inserted either way, as there are NO + or - Markings on it. This is what I am recommending here.
Caps with a + & - are called Polarized Caps & they DO have + & - markings on them.
As for value, I recommend a .01uf or larger value..
-
Gary,
What happens when you hook it up the way Tesla invented. He said it was a great improvement over the previous way.
Make the inside copper wire longer enough to attach to the outside iron wire. Then I guess you will be left with just 1 pair of leads.(makes things easier for me ;D ).
Tesla said what he was improving was the self dampening (I chose that word) effect of the pancake coil. I am assuming there is a similar dampening with this bifilar pancake.
I promise to wind my own ;) , but I would love to know the difference sooner.
jeanna
Jeanna
Here are some pancake stack #s
These readings are taken with my little pancake on top of my big one.
Parallel .425 V DC no AC 1.395 mA DC no AC
Series .8 V DC no AC 1.077 mA DC no AC
Tesla .002 V DC no AC no current
My guess is that by connecting it Teslas way we are connecting the 10s and destroying the nature of the coil
gary
Edit connected Teslas way my big pancake by itself had 0 v and 0 current
-
Gary:
Wow! 4.25 vdc is a good number. The mA seems a little low on each set-up but, I believe this will be higher when either larger wire and/or more windings are attempted. Good job. In comparison to our NS coils, even hooking both of mine together in series does not up my volts all that much, and it greatly lowers the mA's. So, with more mass, maybe this pancake idea will get us where we want to go. I would like to have about 4 volts and maybe 100mA's or so. I think we could really do something with that.
Just for the heck of it, you might want to try the 5% distilled white vinegar option. To see if it also improves this style coil as well. It jumped my mA's from about 20 to 60 and above. Also, when you put one in the ground, the numbers seem to go up as well from the inside numbers. (as far as amps go)
My idea for this is to attempt to find cotton cord about the same diameter as my two wires and wind using the "side guides" as you suggested. (Possibly two phonograph records side by side on a center pin spaced with a gap only as wide as the wire diameter.) Once wound, if I can take one side off without it all going to hell, I might be able to stitch using cotton thread in enough places to hold it together. Sounds like a 3 beer job with possibly a lot of swearing involved.
One more thought. I think all of our better numbers come from one wire, to the core. I know you don't have one, but maybe if you did, a reading from the core to the wire might give way higher mA's. I can't wait to try this.
Bill
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One more thought. I think all of our better numbers come from one wire, to the core. I know you don't have one, but maybe if you did, a reading from the core to the wire might give way higher mA's. I can't wait to try this.
Bill
Bill and Gary,
I know it is early for this but as a preview, I actually have 1 coil that gets lower voltage to the core and it does it consistently. It is around 10% lower where the others are all higher.
Now that one has a cheap iron spike for a core. no zinc galvanization just iron. I don't know how to tell if it is what is called soft, but maybe.
Anyway the amperage is 13mA which makes its descending curve to about 1.3mA and slides on forever.
Bill,
The one that is made of pipe, and I was told?? that this is what soft iron is, but it does have some zinc on the surface...
this one pulses the amps when the 10's are touched together and the probes are on the 5,6. Then if I put one probe on the core and touch the 10's the amps drops like a rock.
This one is very interesting.
I wanted to ask you about testing amps when touching the 10's. I don't have the resolution in the meter to see much acvoltage, but this one coil gives out the cyclic look in the amps.
Am I doing this right? do you ever see amps go down then up to the wires or to the core?
BTW the tree is puny. I got sap on my lead and only 200mvdc that dropped to 45mvdc. maybe it didn't like it so it pulled down the energy. The woodpecker had made the hole, I was just using it for the probes. They were different. Some only had 30 or 40 mvdc to start then some holes started higher. but all ended up at around 45mvdc eventually. (I guess this belongs on koen's thread.)
jeanna
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I have read almost every possible article on Aether Cold Electricity. The unaminous opinion from experts is that you can't measure Aether Electricity directly, without a RESISTOR as a LOAD. Nor can you see it on a scope without a Load Resistor.
Therefore, I recommend a Load Resistor with a starting value between 100 & 1,000 Ohms.
Without a Load Resistor you will not be able to measure any AC Voltage. It will APPEAR that there is NO AC present.
.
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I recommend a Load Resistor with a starting value between 100 & 1,000 Ohms.
Without a Load Resistor you will not be able to measure any AC Voltage. It will APPEAR that there is NO AC present.
OK
I will give it a go.
jeanna
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Gary:
Wow! 4.25 vdc is a good number. The mA seems a little low on each set-up but, I believe this will be higher when either larger wire and/or more windings are attempted. Good job. In comparison to our NS coils, even hooking both of mine together in series does not up my volts all that much, and it greatly lowers the mA's. So, with more mass, maybe this pancake idea will get us where we want to go. I would like to have about 4 volts and maybe 100mA's or so. I think we could really do something with that.
Just for the heck of it, you might want to try the 5% distilled white vinegar option. To see if it also improves this style coil as well. It jumped my mA's from about 20 to 60 and above. Also, when you put one in the ground, the numbers seem to go up as well from the inside numbers. (as far as amps go)
My idea for this is to attempt to find cotton cord about the same diameter as my two wires and wind using the "side guides" as you suggested. (Possibly two phonograph records side by side on a center pin spaced with a gap only as wide as the wire diameter.) Once wound, if I can take one side off without it all going to hell, I might be able to stitch using cotton thread in enough places to hold it together. Sounds like a 3 beer job with possibly a lot of swearing involved.
One more thought. I think all of our better numbers come from one wire, to the core. I know you don't have one, but maybe if you did, a reading from the core to the wire might give way higher mA's. I can't wait to try this.
Bill
Opppsssss
That sneeky decimal point must have jumped over the 4 when I was typing
I got it back in its place now ( .425 )
I still havn't tried cotton ...........so maybe a cotton will get a higher reading .
in a way it would be nice to match your readings ......... but I am not sure if I am going to try that .
It is interesting but it is taking me away from non galvanic reactions .....
HHHhhhhhmmmm
maybe I spoke to soon
I just stopped and took some readings .....
Warninng ..........reading these numbers may be hazerdous to your brain cells . :)
I am calling my original coil A and my new coil B
from copper on A to Iron on B .093 mA .535 V all the voltage will be DC
Iron coil A to iron coil B .007 mA .054 V
Copper on A to copper on B .006 mA .043 V
Copper on A to iron on A 1.200 mA .486 V
Copper on B to iron on B .962 mA .5 V
Iron on A to copper on B .076 mA .451 V
does anyone have any ideas about what is going on here ?
I don't have a clue .
All readings were taken with B sitting on A
there were no connections between the coils exept the actual meter leads
-
I have read almost every possible article on Aether Cold Electricity. The unaminous opinion from experts is that you can't measure Aether Electricity directly, without a RESISTOR as a LOAD. Nor can you see it on a scope without a Load Resistor.
Therefore, I recommend a Load Resistor with a starting value between 100 & 1,000 Ohms.
Without a Load Resistor you will not be able to measure any AC Voltage. It will APPEAR that there is NO AC present.
.
Fatbird just to make sure I understand you ....... I should put a resister in series with my meter probe ?
Is there a particular cold electricity or radient energy book that you recomend? ....... hopefully with out alot of math.
I assume that a plain carbon resistor is ok
gary
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Just for the heck of it, you might want to try the 5% distilled white vinegar option. To see if it also improves this style coil as well. It jumped my mA's from about 20 to 60 and above. Also, when you put one in the ground, the numbers seem to go up as well from the inside numbers. (as far as amps go)
Bill
Bill
I don't have any vinegar ..... I will try to remember to get some
I have been thinking of trying something I do have ............citric acid ...... it might work well .......and it might not work at all ....... one of its little quirks .......it prevents rust .
gary
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Glad to help. I suggest that you try a Coil with a Plain Carbon Resistor across it (Parallel Load) as a Load. For starters, you might try a Resistor Value between 100 Ohms & 1,000 Ohms. The Meter also goes across the Coil & Load, in Parallel, to measure the V.
If the Resistor smokes or vaporizes, you know you hit the Jack Pot with a HUGE potential for power. If that happens, try a bigger Load such as a Curling Iron, Coffee Pot, or Light Bulb. Experts say It has to be a Resistive Load to work.
Try different locations like a dish of water, Hole in the ground, etc. Be sure to allow at least 30 Minutes in a new location for it to get to maximum V.
The Coil in my attached photo was wound on a broom stick, then slid off, & then glued to a piece of cardboard for stability. Remember, you must use insulated wire. Magnet wire is okay.
.
-
Here is an example of someone that "tuned in" to the Aether Vortex with a working unit. He is using a different kind of Circuit Setup than the NS site here. But I am just listing it here to illustrate that there is an Aether Vortex that can be tapped into.
Notice that he speaks about his Resistive Load. Also notice that his Voltage Out varies with the time of day, which is normal with the Aether.
http://dallastexas.net/PinkyAndTheBrain/archive/00000173.htm
.
-
I am calling my original coil A and my new coil B
from copper on A to Iron on B .093 mA .535 V all the voltage will be DC
Iron coil A to iron coil B .007 mA .054 V
Copper on A to copper on B .006 mA .043 V
Copper on A to iron on A 1.200 mA .486 V
Copper on B to iron on B .962 mA .5 V
Iron on A to copper on B .076 mA .451 V
does anyone have any ideas about what is going on here ?
I don't have a clue .
All readings were taken with B sitting on A
there were no connections between the coils exept the actual meter leads
I dunno,
It kinda looks like the same wall we see all the time. volts are rarely over .9vdc but lots of times they are at around .5vdc
Did you say these are totally dry? I can't remember how you are doing that part. I think yours are always dry. So that means a lot if totally dry you have .5vdc with these coils.
And you are getting the best amperage with opposite wires on different coils.
It just keeps looking like what our friend NS was investigating. If these are dry, magnetic currents must be giving your coils a boost from one to the other, but if they are dry where are they coming from?
So, first question,
Are these still dry?
jeanna
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Gary,
I found your reference that they are wet.
So, It is very like the NS coils with a little galvanic ax to stir things up. But so far all you are seeing is galvanic action, i think.
The thing you are getting that is exactly opposite what I get is that your voltage goes up after you read the amperage.
Mine always goes down. And it takes a long while to recover. I am very careful now to take any amperage readings in the end.
jeanna
-
Is there anybody that has added a secondary to the NS primary?
Am I the only one? I would like to hear your readings if you have any.
Mine are all small, but they do change the coil
jeanna
-
I dunno,
It kinda looks like the same wall we see all the time. volts are rarely over .9vdc but lots of times they are at around .5vdc
Did you say these are totally dry? I can't remember how you are doing that part. I think yours are always dry. So that means a lot if totally dry you have .5vdc with these coils.
And you are getting the best amperage with opposite wires on different coils.
It just keeps looking like what our friend NS was investigating. If these are dry, magnetic currents must be giving your coils a boost from one to the other, but if they are dry where are they coming from?
So, first question,
Are these still dry?
jeanna
These reading are with wet coils
The pancake design at least so far has almost no voltage or current when dry
What gets me about the readings is how varied they are .
and the fact that the coils are not connected doesn't make any difference as far as I can see.
I guess I am kind of following my gut on this .
As I said before .... my gut tells me that these coils don't like to play alone.
I think that a few more " friends " are needed
What I am thinking now .....is that the different sets of windings may be acting like different kinds of transformers .
for example .... a particular load may work well if connected to one set of windings but hardly work at all on another .
The effect is clearly inductive or magnetic
I really hope that it is some form of cold electricity .
gary
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Interesting................I checked out the stubblefield coil.There is one thing I havent seen any one talk about.I noticed Stubblefield (if I read it correctly) he had an antenna.If he had an antenna and a ground this thing to my according to what I have found would work.A resistive load that would make sense, a nice either tap.Good call !!!!!!!!!!! Tesla said you could tap different parts of the coil to change the frequency. regards Andy
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Gary,
I found your reference that they are wet.
So, It is very like the NS coils with a little galvanic ax to stir things up. But so far all you are seeing is galvanic action, i think.
The thing you are getting that is exactly opposite what I get is that your voltage goes up after you read the amperage.
Mine always goes down. And it takes a long while to recover. I am very careful now to take any amperage readings in the end.
jeanna
Jeanna
I am pretty sure that my first try at building a responded in the same way .
Reading current shunts the current though the meter ..............
The earth battery is producing a certian power ..... you connect the meter and the meter itself creates a new current path .
The battery is now working with a different set of variables .......and it takes a few minutes for everything to balance again .
Anyway .....that is my understanding of it ....... I may be wrong ..... I can't explain what re balances ..... or how it does it . .....
gary
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I was testing my earth probes (copper and Ink) for voltage and amps. nothing new but what i did try was taking a small magnet and i tried to attach it the copper probe. it just keep falling no magnetic attraction to the copper none at all. so I was wondering if this may be part of the stubblefield mystery. the copper has no magnetic field but the iron wire and soft core did. as a note i did have a led shorted between the + and - for 24 hours or so. then i tried attaching the magnet to the copper.
Also i did figure out that an aluminum plate will show lots more Ac when checked. and used in place of the Zink.
-
Gary,
It is hard to see something from someone elses numbers so please forgive me,
I am trying to see what is more than reading across the 5 and 6 on the NS coil primary and having a reading of .5vdc. and a few mAmps or uAmps.
5 and 6 don't touch each other either (just like your 2 coils) and yet there is this consistent voltage. I think it must be galvanic caused by the metals coming off the wires across their length.
BUT the big thing that happens is that with a pulse or something mysterious because the charge/or magnetism causing a reversed charge is moving up one side of the core and back down as it follows each wire pair, the galvanic reaction might be reversing itself. Electrolysis
In your case the charge or magnetism ( etc) is moving out the circumference and back in toward the center.
I am still skeptical about claiming more than galvanic, but I think there is something magnetic. I just can't say what or how fast, for that matter.
----------------------
I have been thinking lately that this may be a very low frequency rather than a very fast one. Sort of opposite what Tesla went for.
I was reading online looking for various frequencies and what fell into which category etc. I saw that an earthquake is in the range of 1Hz. I guess Tesla's eq machine made one a little faster, but still really slow.
It makes me think that the resonant frequency of the earth might be that slow. It can't be much lower than 1. so what if we are tapping into the earth freq since we are putting these things into the earth, maybe we can't tap into anything higher, and maybe we should be looking low and slow.
??? ???
jeanna
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Greetings, I just discovered your great thread & find it all very interesting. I notice that you are getting a different meter reading on AC than on DC.
I am wondering if that is due to your Coil TRYING to tap into the AC Aether Vortex (about 100 KHz AC), rather than plain Galvanic DC action. Here is a way to determine if it is AC:
1. Make your Coil with insulated wire, NOT bare wire. Magnet Wire is fine.
2. Wind the Coil on a non metal core, such as cardboard or plastic.
3. The larger the diameter (at Least 3" or 7 mm), the HIGHER the Voltage.
A round cereal box (like Quaker Oats) is great.
4. Try placing a Plain, Non Polarized capacitor in SERIES between your meter & Coil.
A Cap will pass AC, but block DC. A Plain, Non Polarized Cap does NOT have a + or - markings.
5. Turn your Meter to AC Volts.
6. Try placing the Coil in different places, such as a hole in the ground, in a plastic bucket of water, etc.
7. Give it AT LEAST 30 MINUTES in each place to maximize the voltage in each place.
Floyd Sweet just had a rotating Aether Vortex spinning between the 2 flat magnets. Edwin Gray had it spinning inside his special tube. Hubbard had it spinning inside his circumference of pulsing electromagnets. The TESTATICA Device has it spinning inside the two large cans. SM had it spinning inside sequentially pulsing control coils arranged in a Toroid. These are just different ways of accomplishing the same thing.
It is entirely possible that your Earth Battery Coils are TRYING to tap into the Aether Vortex Spin?
==============================================================
FOR THE NON-TECHNICAL: A Non Polarized Cap can be inserted either way, as there are NO + or - Markings on it. This is what I am recommending here.
Caps with a + & - are called Polarized Caps & they DO have + & - markings on them.
As for value, I recommend a .01uf or larger value..
Fatbird
A couple questions
I have seen some evidence that for the stubblefield battery large diamater wire is better .
I have been using # 6 copper ( wire usually used for ground lines ) and trying to match the size of the iron wire with the insulated copper wire .
Does bigger diameter wire help with the kinds of coils you are talking about?
I don't have alot of money to spend this week ......but I was planning on buying another coil of #6 copper ......and the other stuff to finish a coil or 2
that could make me 3 or 4 small pancake coils matched to my small one ( 7 in )..........or one large pancake slightly larger than my big one (12.5 in ) Or ...........I could make one bigger ...........maybe big enough that my big one can fit inside .
Any suggestions ?
What I am looking for is the non galvanic or aether type reactions
I was thinking of making the next coil with cotton insulation .......not because I think it is the best over all ..........but others here have told me that all the galvanic cells that do really well use cotton ...... so .... by using cotton and building a coil that matches one I already have will show me alot about what works and what doesn't .
gary
-
I was testing my earth probes (copper and Ink) for voltage and amps. nothing new but what i did try was taking a small magnet and i tried to attach it the copper probe. it just keep falling no magnetic attraction to the copper none at all. so I was wondering if this may be part of the stubblefield mystery. the copper has no magnetic field but the iron wire and soft core did. as a note i did have a led shorted between the + and - for 24 hours or so. then i tried attaching the magnet to the copper.
Also i did figure out that an aluminum plate will show lots more Ac when checked. and used in place of the Zink.
Pardon
Yes ......I beleive that magnetic fields react a little bit differently to metals that a magnet sticks to .
I am looking for ways that the small difference can be made to do some work for us .
gary
-
Gary,Remember what we talked about the strawberrys . The larger diameter would be better.more mass more free electrons.I just had my computer fixed today for some reason I got a virus they said it came from this website. I doubt it.Im back tonight.Regards Andy
-
Gary,
It is hard to see something from someone elses numbers so please forgive me,
I am trying to see what is more than reading across the 5 and 6 on the NS coil primary and having a reading of .5vdc. and a few mAmps or uAmps.
5 and 6 don't touch each other either (just like your 2 coils) and yet there is this consistent voltage. I think it must be galvanic caused by the metals coming off the wires across their length.
BUT the big thing that happens is that with a pulse or something mysterious because the charge/or magnetism causing a reversed charge is moving up one side of the core and back down as it follows each wire pair, the galvanic reaction might be reversing itself. Electrolysis
In your case the charge or magnetism ( etc) is moving out the circumference and back in toward the center.
I am still skeptical about claiming more than galvanic, but I think there is something magnetic. I just can't say what or how fast, for that matter.
----------------------
I have been thinking lately that this may be a very low frequency rather than a very fast one. Sort of opposite what Tesla went for.
I was reading online looking for various frequencies and what fell into which category etc. I saw that an earthquake is in the range of 1Hz. I guess Tesla's eq machine made one a little faster, but still really slow.
It makes me think that the resonant frequency of the earth might be that slow. It can't be much lower than 1. so what if we are tapping into the earth freq since we are putting these things into the earth, maybe we can't tap into anything higher, and maybe we should be looking low and slow.
??? ???
jeanna
I agree with your description of something flowing within the stubblfield battery .......
I have some theorys on it ........
The strange readings I and the power transfering from a winding in one coil to a different winding in another coil is a magnetic related thing .
I wondered if it could be some kind of short .....so I lifted up the top coil ........ the effect died quickly ...... within an inch of the bottom coil ........but it did go on after I had lifted it off the other coil ........ there was no possability it being a short of some kind .
At this point ...........all I can say is that there is something strange going on with this particular coil configuation .
It should be fun trying to figure it out .
gary
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Gary,Remember what we talked about the strawberrys . The larger diameter would be better.more mass more free electrons.I just had my computer fixed today for some reason I got a virus they said it came from this website. I doubt it.Im back tonight.Regards Andy
Andy
yes I remember ........but ........does it work the same with aether strawberrys ?
gary
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Stubblefield (if I read it correctly) had an antenna.If he had an antenna and a ground this thing to my according to what I have found would work
.A resistive load that would make sense,
Andy
I have wondered a lot about this, Andy.
Thanks for bringing it up.
Please tell me where you would add a resistive load.
Would you wait and use it with the "secondary" most have yet to add? or would you just put it between the terminals.
I did an evening of tests with a coil and a resistor figuring the amperage from ohms law with a 150ohm resistor.
It was all predictable according to that law. there were no surprises. It behaved just like a battery run circuit of small voltage.
It was an experiment about the water solution and an electrolyte adding it in increments.
In the end the only thing I could say for sure was that the coil works better when it is NOT submerged, just moist.
Perhaps it is because I don't have a coil that produces enough amperage to even try it. I have tried it. I have a cd motor that works on a half dead AA battery. but it won't work on any of my coils, so I can't really tell.
I have a speaker/transducer/ thing from a modem it makes a scratching sound with very small charge. It agrees with what the meter says.
I would like to hear your suggestion about the antenna. where it is and what it is up to.
jeanna
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I wondered if it could be some kind of short .....so I lifted up the top coil ........ the effect died quickly ...... within an inch of the bottom coil ........but it did go on after I had lifted it off the other coil ........ there was no possability it being a short of some kind .
At this point ...........all I can say is that there is something strange going on with this particular coil configuation .
It should be fun trying to figure it out .
I assume you meant to say it did return when you returned the coils to close together?
Yes, this is very cool.
lots o fun coming up.
jeanna
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The larger diameter would be better.more mass more free electrons.Andy
Andy
yes I remember ........but ........does it work the same with aether strawberrys ?
gary
So, I thought Tesla explained that it is because its function comes about as the square of the distance from the center. That is a lot more than just the distance from the center.
It is making me think I should try one that has many layers and not as much length. If the distance from the center applies to the NS coil. which it may not, but worth a try.
jeanna
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Gary.Strawberrys are strawberrys you cannot call them apples { but maybe phonons or bosons or nutrinos....to name a few...}The description from what I have seen here is a vortex.Bifilars nature is to make vortices.*{I will say again}* set a small tesla coil on top.This will give a amplification.Shaman frequency =7.8 ( I like 8.3 ) which I learned from calculating Teslas frequency many years ago.Eather vortices are really weird.Weird effects.I know several ways to make these.Bifilars are just 1 way.Low frequency make a lot of power, but the shock wave is terrible.For example 1hz at 1 amp will completly destroy my house because of the magnetude of the wave.Calculate the size of this wave will suprise you.Regards Andy
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I wondered if it could be some kind of short .....so I lifted up the top coil ........ the effect died quickly ...... within an inch of the bottom coil ........but it did go on after I had lifted it off the other coil ........ there was no possability it being a short of some kind .
At this point ...........all I can say is that there is something strange going on with this particular coil configuation .
It should be fun trying to figure it out .
I assume you meant to say it did return when you returned the coils to close together?
Yes, this is very cool.
lots o fun coming up.
jeanna
Jeanna
Yes it did come back ....... I could move the little coil up and down a little and watch the readings change
It was hard to get the original readings back .......it turns out that it has to be lined up very well .
To me that supports the idea that it might be something like a vortex
gary
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O.K. Guys go to eskimo.com free energy page, There is a great guy there his name is Bill Beaty he has been around forever also.LOOK for AREIAL BATTERY CHARGER which works add this to the straberrys and what you know about this coil and you will have plenty of free energy.Regards Andy (Gift)
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Gary.Strawberrys are strawberrys you cannot call them apples { but maybe phonons or bosons or nutrinos....to name a few...}The description from what I have seen here is a vortex.Bifilars nature is to make vortices.*{I will say again}* set a small tesla coil on top.This will give a amplification.Shaman frequency =7.8 ( I like 8.3 ) which I learned from calculating Teslas frequency many years ago.Eather vortices are really weird.Weird effects.I know several ways to make these.Bifilars are just 1 way.Low frequency make a lot of power, but the shock wave is terrible.For example 1hz at 1 amp will completly destroy my house because of the magnetude of the wave.Calculate the size of this wave will suprise you.Regards Andy
Andy
I don't have a Tesla coil ...... is there anything else that might give some kind of effect that is similar ?
HHhhhhmmmm
if there is enough power in these coils to destroy a house .......shouldn't we be using low strawberry wire to minimise the risk?
Sorry ......my math is not good enough to know how to calculate something like a shock wave .
gary
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I said at 1hz I didnt say anything about these coils .1hz would be a monster coil.The lower the frequency=the longer the coil.higher the frequency the shorter the coil.Regards Andy
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To me that supports the idea that it might be something like a vortex
gary
I like the sound of this. I don't know enough. The math is difficult and the info is sparce.
Andy,
Bill Beaty kept me going while I looked for a way to get my hands on experiments that wouldn't kill me. ;D ;)
I couldn't put a Tesla coil on top because I don't have one, yet. I am actually doing all that I am doing with an eye to making a Tesla coil. But I need to learn more about what I am dealing with first.
Stuff like which way to add a capacitor etc. (thanks, bye the way.)
So, with the coils with their resistance and # turns etc we are making coils that ring at a low frequency. I only have one that begins to oscillate. But I am still learning what to do to raise that.
Do you think if we are capturing low frequency we would be making dangerous earth waves? just by capturing them?
I probably don't understand a whole book of information.
I will go visit Bill Beaty. He always did have the best way to explain things, and I know so much more now, I will probably be better able to follow him than ever before.
Thanks,
jeanna
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I don't mean we are making a low frequency happen. I think the earth is damping the freq we do have,
In an effort to ring with the earth and our coils, shouldn't we be looking at the possibility of low frequency more than high since they are in the earth?
I guess we had better go for a higher harmonic, huh?
I don't think I am endangering anything esp. with 100- 900mvdc and 30uA it is way too puny.
jeanna
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O.K. Guys go to eskimo.com free energy page, There is a great guy there his name is Bill Beaty he has been around forever also.LOOK for AREIAL BATTERY CHARGER which works add this to the straberrys and what you know about this coil and you will have plenty of free energy.Regards Andy (Gift)
Andy
Are you talking about the sky current battery charger on this page?
/www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/const.html
the links are dead .
gary
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here it is
http://web.archive.org/web/20040915083017/www.angelfire.com/ak/egel/capcharg.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20040915083017/www.angelfire.com/ak/egel/capcharg.html)
jeanna
I can paste the whole page but it might anger the writer??
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Guys,These things really work.remember your strawberrys.There in the pancakes LOL Andy
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It have no power , no energy.
even if you will load an cap with some picofarads. . If is no power behind it.
i tested tis (as child) over 50 years ago....
Pese
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here it is
http://web.archive.org/web/20040915083017/www.angelfire.com/ak/egel/capcharg.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20040915083017/www.angelfire.com/ak/egel/capcharg.html)
jeanna
I can paste the whole page but it might anger the writer??
Thanks for the link Jeanna
I have all the stuff to test that ............except for the PLACE to test it .
I live in town right now ....no yard no outside area that I can use .
gary
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It have no power , no energy.
even if you will load an cap with some picofarads. . If is no power behind it.
i tested tis (as child) over 50 years ago....
Pese
Pese
Is it possible that you made a mistake 50 years ago?
gary
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Resonancer,
Personally, I would never use #6 wire, as it is just too large, stiff, & expensive. I recommend a smaller diameter, less expensive copper Magnet Wire. Magnet Wire has an enameled coating for insulation & is used in all electric motors & generators. My recommendation is to use something between #18 & #24 wire.
While I was reading this thread for the first time, it seems like almost everyone is getting more AC voltage than DC voltage. So I am just wondering if some people's coils are TRYING to tap into the 100 KHz AC Aether, rather than plain Galvanic DC action. That is why I posted my suggestions.
.
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It have no power , no energy.
even if you will load an cap with some picofarads. . If is no power behind it.
i tested tis (as child) over 50 years ago....
Pese
Pese a few years ago, I loaded a cap and then discharged it over several minutes.
It was the resistor that made the charge come out slowly enough and allowed it to work in my case.
Bill loaded his capacitor up with his probes in the earth and the led lights for a really long time.
Bill used a supercap which has a bunch of something inside that acts like a resistor.
I have been loading 2 and soon 3 super caps in parallel on a NS coil type battery. 3 in series will light a led after they charge. And they only take a few moments to charge
This is all possible.
So, why do you say this?
jeanna
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more AC voltage than DC voltage. So I am just wondering if some people's coils are TRYING to tap into the 100 KHz AC Aether, rather than plain Galvanic DC action. That is why I posted my suggestions.[/color]
AARGH I hit tab instead of caps lock and lost my post. I will try again:
Last night before I turned off the lights I checked my little test cell that I did based on your suggestion.
It had been hooked up for many hours and all along there was no sign of ac voltage. but just at that last time,
I saw 0.1vac! It didn't last for long but it was there. earlier it was not there at all.
The only thing is that sometimes when I turn on my meter it shows something very briefly then that number goes away or down. I am not sure if I am seeing something real or something in the meter adjusting itself when it starts.
but maybe I saw vac.
jeanna
the resistor was 150 ohm
the cap saya 104 (which is 100.000 picoF which I think is .1uF)
these were in series with the meter.
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Resonancer,
Personally, I would never use #6 wire, as it is just too large, stiff, & expensive. I recommend a smaller diameter, less expensive copper Magnet Wire. Magnet Wire has an enameled coating for insulation & is used in all electric motors & generators. My recommendation is to use something between #18 & #24 wire.
While I was reading this thread for the first time, it seems like almost everyone is getting more AC voltage than DC voltage. So I am just wondering if some people's coils are TRYING to tap into the 100 KHz AC Aether, rather than plain Galvanic DC action. That is why I posted my suggestions.
.
Fatbird
I kind of like the #6 wire
It fits with my gut feeling about how all this stuff works
and if I go back to thin wire Andy will start throwing strawberrys at me :)
I am not going to even guess at the frequency that these coils may be tapping .......or what it is that they are tapping into ...........something is clearly going on .
I would rather explore it and find out what it is by playing with it than by sticking names on it then wondering why it doesn't follow the rules that go with the names
gary
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Fatbird said
3. The larger the diameter (at Least 3" or 7 mm), the HIGHER the Voltage.
How sure of this are you?
I like the idea of making a bigger diameter coil and getting more out of it .......but is it that easy?
Andy said
The description from what I have seen here is a vortex.Bifilars nature is to make vortices.
I don't know much about vortices but if my coils stacked on top of eachother made a vortex it would explain the strange readings I got ........and it would explain why I got reading between 2 unconnected coils
I am planning on building a coil or 2 this weekend
I want to stay with the bifilar copper iron combination
I would like something that will interact with my other 2 pancake coils.
other than that I am open to suggestions
Some of you have much more knowledge of the aether and vortexes
What would be the best way to go to get more vortex power? .............if that is what I am getting.
gary
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The TESTATICA Device has it spinning inside the two large cans.
Fatbird
My understanding of those 2 cans is that they had a capacitor in the outer part of the can and a coil in the center ..........and the whole thing was resonant .
If you are right ........and the coil created a vortex .............all that the spinning disks would need to do is provide pulses of energy at the right frequency
To test one of my theorys I made a big bimetal capacitor ....... I have something like 26 sheet metal plates and matching copper plates..... each plate is roughly 18 in by 8 in It creates .5 V just sitting there .......it doesn't create any usuable power ........but I am sure that that will change when I find a good dialectric ........so far when I charge it up with a battery it takes only seconds to discharge . In a high energy field ( with the right dialectric ) it should put out alot of power.
gary
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On another thread here HWL cell
www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4510.0.html
on the first post there is a link
part of that first link is
ADP, like many crystals, exhibits an electrical phenomenon known as ferroelectricity. Ferroelectric materials are analogous to magnets in that they maintain a positively charged and a negatively charged pole below a certain temperature that is characteristic for each compound.
It seems to me that a very fine layer of this stuff on our coils might act as a diode .
So far I have not found it in small quantities .........50 pounds is not what I call small .
gary
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Hi everyone,
I want to share some of this mornings musings.
I was thinking about strawberrys and coils and what makes up the electrical oscillations as they are different from the oscillations on a cello string....
I came to the provisional conclusion that there are 4 forms of power in a wire.
1- straight dc
2- pulsed dc
3-smooth sine wave type ac
(whatever that is ;) strawberries doing the 2 step dance back and forth or leap frog jumping over each other back and forth.)
4- digital ac. as in "binary", "on - off" caused by a spark gap
Pulsed dc and digital ac are the same thing in their beginning moment.
Digital ac then has the wave response following it along with the possibility of using the harmonic repeating and back emf etc.
Early on someone said the NS battery was pulsed dc. I am not sure I agree. Here is why:
I am thinking that pulsed dc needs to be in a straight wire. If there are convolutions it will pulse but be back and forth, in other words, ac.
Which leads to the conclusion that this NS battery is ac.
I just wanted to share these thoughts today. Perhaps some of this is standard theory or then again maybe it is all jeanna type "out there stuff".
jeanna
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Jenna,What you said about the strawberrys was prett good .Pulsed dc no way.With any wave ac only.With the Eather,there would a mixture of both would act as if it were ac & dc both trying to get back to ambient.Andy
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Pulsed dc no way.
how is there no pulsed dc? It should be easily done with a spark to start each dc blast.
With any wave ac only.
and a spark to start a current this time in a coil would produce ac because it IS a coil and then because it is a coil it continues on making ac waves.
With the Eather,there would a mixture of both would act as if it were ac & dc both trying to get back to ambient.
We can probably say what we want to about aether. the proofs are such difficult math I couldn't get very far, but somehow I think dc is man made and not the natural thing so I guess trying to get back to ambient is as good an explanation as we could get.
Thanks for your comments.
jeanna
So Andy,
Do you prefer a strawberry that dances a 2 step or one that plays leapfrog? ;D
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how is there no pulsed dc? It should be easily done with a spark to start each dc blast.
I would agree with ANdy on this
any circuit even just a simple wire has a little inductance and capatance .......so it will ring like a resonant circuit just a little bit ..........also .........a spark gap shuts off the current VERY quickly .......any inductance will create flyback ( back EMF ) both of these things will tend to make pulsed DC into AC
I am going to try a little experment on the nature of AC and magnetic fields tonight or tomorow ......it it goes well I will post the results
gary
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how is there no pulsed dc? It should be easily done with a spark to start each dc blast.
I would agree with ANdy on this
any circuit even just a simple wire has a little inductance and capatance .......so it will ring like a resonant circuit just a little bit ..........also .........a spark gap shuts off the current VERY quickly .......any inductance will create flyback ( back EMF ) both of these things will tend to make pulsed DC into AC
I am going to try a little experment on the nature of AC and magnetic fields tonight or tomorow ......it it goes well I will post the results
gary
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I am going to try a little experment on the nature of AC and magnetic fields tonight or tomorow ......it it goes well I will post the results
gary
great.
I didn't realize that even a small circuit will do an ac thing.
My problem is that although I have a good handle on resonance and oscillation through music, I have needed a way to translate that into electric/electronic meaning. The circuit just sits there. or it blows a spark etc.
But if you want to see the oscillations you need a meter.
I am starting to get it, but I am not ready to just use regular circuits and think oscillation the way I can with sound.
I even looked up Les Paul yesterday to see if I could understand what he did to make a vibrating string into an electronic thing.
And the reverse is really what I think will help me. How do you make an electronic wire make a particular pitch with a certain set of harmonics? (I don't mean stick a chip in somewhere, I mean, what makes the sound come out of the copper wire? etc.)
So, the search for understanding continues. I enjoy learning new things and experimenting more than anything.
and I think this NS battery is where I will find my answers, too.
thank you
jeanna
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Cheers mates
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Jenna, I worked with sound wave engineering for 15 years.There is a partical in sound waves that is called a "Phonon" these phonons are the particals that make the sound wave.I belive this is one of the keys to free energy and antigravity.If you look up phonons you will find bosons and nutrinos.If you want antigravity you need phonons, to get to phonons you have to 180 degree out of phase-phase shift.To get free energy you need 180 degree out of phase-phase shift.Now you know why my e-mail address is "phononstring"which is a partical beam of phonons.There are different demintions it is only by phase shifting driving the different <more than 1 180s driven in to each other>The bifilar does the 180 out the rest of the story.regards Andy (wife wants attention gotta run for now)
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There are different demintions it is only by phase shifting driving the different <more than 1 180s driven in to each other>The bifilar does the 180 out the rest of the story.regards Andy
Andy,
This is very much the line of thinking I am wanting to be on.
The following examples may NOT be phase shifts because the cycle is not exactly the same:
If 2 cellos are looking for the same A440 but they are not exactly right on, there is an audible beat. This beat gets faster as the 2 cellos get more in tune and the frequency is matching closer and closer.
A musical "round" is really a better example of a phase shift in music, I guess.
Precession of the equinoxes is another example, the precession of the moon every month is another. These both come about because the orbits are a different diameter so it may not be phase. Just concentric neighbors.
I know the sound thing can cause antigravity. I didn't think I would ever meet someone who could talk about it, though. And I certainly didn't know the role of phonons. I look forward to learning more.
wonderful.
-----------
Koen started a thread about the cadeusus.. As he was describing it and making his own very interesting comments, I realized the NS battery is a cadeusus. - There are many differing examples of the cadeusus and many of them have the snake tails connected. So if one snake= one bifilar wind, this battery is in the form of a cadeusus.
If that weren't enough, the next post showed a thing from the JLNaudin site with the same kind of coils wound the way we are winding them with 6 layers,(just copper but down and back, I mean,) which has anti faraday shielding properties !!!
Whatever NS did he, like Tesla could have taken our planet to a great place if circumstances had been different. I keep wanting to say (In the words of OB1) "Nows the time"
Andy, thank you so much for your input,
jeanna
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Jenna, A cadeusus,bifilar,and a moebius coil, all do this phase shift, only different patterns.Which is why all have to do with antigravity and free energy.All the strange effects we all have seen through these coils.There is another way: it is through the center of a silonoid.The same wave pattern or what we call a standing wave.All 180 out.When two waves converge.at certin angles.mostly (45s) degees,comming from different angles like 2 - 45s intersecting (>) example or 4 - 45s (x) example.the 4 45s =180 out x 4 = 720 out of phase "forth demision" = Antigravity or 8 x 180 out = warp! =1440 out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the interesting part is the (intensity or how much power is backing it up ) = frequency, voltage,and amperage.This is the push, look how lifters are made. I wrote about them to jnaudin in 1998-1999 and 2000.Then another friend of jnaudin, DeAquino came out with great!!!!!! formula on antigravity in 2000.Which still equals -0- I have been screaming for years.If you look at the wave pattern in the lifter you will see the waves comming from all different directions slaming against each other.Then look what I have been writing for years.Example THIS reply save this. lOOk and see the (center) where all the (waves drive into themselves.)This is the (center) of a circle or triangle mabe a hexagon,square, the waves still drive into themselves which is the (center.)The amplifier is the tesla coil one very small can buy one for about 50 USD.This is the e-mail of the centry if you pay attention to waht is here in this reply Regards Andy McQuerry e-mail address (phononstring@yahoo.com) phone 870-862-8020
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@ Jeanna:
I believe your description of the two cellos is not correct. I have never played a cello but have played guitar for over 30 years. When tuning a tensioned string to another, the beats get slower as they come into tune. I taught myself how to tune pianos using this method. (It is not easy, I have only tuned 2 of them) You can hear the beats and adjust accordingly. As they slow, you know you are closer and keep going in that direction.
As far as not being able to "see" ac, we see it every day. When I first got my new monitor, it was set on default at 60hz refresh rate. I got very bad headaches and eyestrain within a few minutes of using it. I found I could reset the rates to 75 hz, which my eyes can not seem to detect. If you blink your eyes very fast, you can see the strobe effect on a regular light bulb if you can't see it already. Our eyes get used to it but 60hz is not a good frequency for most humans. If you have access to an adjustable strobe light, you can tune it to see the 60hz pulses on any electric light source. You can either freeze it on, or off. Well, you have to consider that the true hz of our electrical power varies as well, within a certain tolerance set by the power company.
Why am I telling you this? I don't know. I guess it is just yet more trivial information that I seem to have and wanted to pass it on. I have to pretend like I know some things right?
As we all talked about in the "old" days, remember Hans's work with Keely?, resonance is probably everything. And on many levels. I like your thoughts on reversing Les Paul's pick-up design to use on our systems. If things convert one way, why not the other? I try to think like that myself and I believe our best creations may come out of that kind of thinking. Hey, gas heats when compressed, why not decompress it for air conditioning or refrigeration? LEDS light up with electricity, why not shine light on them to produce electricity? (which is now being done, and I have done this myself after reading about it) It takes electricity to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, why not combine them to produce electricity? (fuel cells) Great thinking Jeanna.
Bill
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I have made a couple very simple coils to test the some of the A field properties of copper and iron .
I started with 2 cores one #6 copper another iron rebar tie wire 4 painted strands .
Over the cores I slipped a polyethelene tube as insulation .
I then wrapped each core with wire . Painted rebar tye wire on the copper core 21 gage magnet wire on the iron core. It would have been nice to have a little closer match in wire size . but I have to use what I have on hand.
I didn't get any DC on any reading.
I also didn't get any usable power , these are small coils ..... no real power was expected.
Iron core
5 & 6 .020 V AC
Copper core
5 & 6 .028 V AC
When placed on my wet pancake coils the readings were.
Iron core
5&6 .060 V AC
copper core
5&6 .065 V AC
I am planning on adding a few more layers on both of these coils and making them into cadeusus coils .
I am thinking of adding copper winding to the copper core coil for its 3rd and 4th layers . I am guessing that the iron windings will act like a core .
I have all the parts ready to wind a 3rd pancake coil tonight
It will have the copper insulated with plastic .
It will be interesting to see if a non galvanic coil adds to the galvanic coils .
gary
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@ Gary:
Wow! That's a lot of winding. I too have been thinking of alternative core materials. More on this later.
Bill
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Bill,Has there been any post about hooking any Stubblefield coils to antennas like the link Jenna poasted.I was reading on this coil and it talked about an antenna hook up?Regards Andy
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Jenna, Have you read my last two post? Regards Andy
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Hi
Yes, I am writing now
;)
jeanna
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hooking any Stubblefield coils to antennas
Hi everyone,
Andy,
This coil has a lot of unusual elements to it. It is both a galvanic battery and through all the same wires n things a capacitor.
That means we are to expect sparks or the possibility of sparks if the wires are slmost but not shorted by some distance.
( as an aside, I actually have one of my coils set up to spark across the 10's, just to see. The sparks are too small to see in the daytime and I haven't been out under the tree at night since I set that up.)
I truely think the silver globes atop the batteries in the pic is the capacitor that gets sparked somehow, etc.
One of the things we learned a while ago is that if you run dc through the wires they do a major destruct thing. They go rusty almost immediately., Remarkable.
IMHO the best place to add something like an antenna, would be to the core piece 1. I, for one, will put that off for later. I want to see what this does with the earth first.
It certainly is something to try.
Bill, thanks for your comments to help me understand electrical frequency. I am having a time trying to explain what I don't get.
It is in the electric circuit that has resonance that I don't get. or perhaps why it is called resonance, maybe. We are told that these coils we are making all have a resonant frequency.
But it is not the frequency of the parts. You cannot hit the coil with a hammer and match the pitch to get the resonant frequency of the coil. It cycles up and back silently without giving a sign that it is resonating.
I appreciate the input.
I looked at the coil I am calling broken today. If I connect the secondary of that coil to the core piece 1
I get around 204mvdc:
but It is going up now. But wait it turned around! It went up to 230mvdc and now it is going down.
It stops at 196 and keeps going.
I put a capacitor on it to capture its max and look at it.
That whole 1 1/2 cycles took about 35 minutes.
That is a kind of cycling but is it a resonance of that coil? It may be the resonance of the secondary.
And it is now in my kitchen drying out after its bath. what about outside?
Now this is an interesting opportunity:
The thing that is broken about this coil is that the wires are shorted together somewhere but they are not shorted to the core piece-1.
So, I can get a "shorted" reading from this coil across its secondary, even though I can't get much else, but cool eh?
OK for now, I will post this.
jeanna
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@Bill,
I am beginning to think that all I really need to do is fork over some cash and buy an oscilloscope.
Once I do that, I will probably be like all the EE guys who just 'know' what it is because they can 'see' it on the screen.
Now to the thrift shop bringing some luck along with my cash! ;D
thank you
jeanna
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@ Andy:
I have not heard or read of anyone doing this but, it does not mean it has not been done, or it is not a good idea to try. I do know some people are getting volts from wire strung in the air, as in ham radio antennas. Where this is coming from I do not know. To get maximum power, I will hook this coil to other coils, antennas, trees, whatever it takes. I will try anything. I have some crazy ideas I have thought of lately that I will share soon when I get the time. Maybe something, maybe nothing...who knows?
@ Jeanna:
When you say one of your coils is shorted, shorted how? And how do you know? I guess you checked continuity between the different wires and core? I had a shot in my smaller coil once and I was able to isolate it with a few minutes of testing. I found it was between the copper wire and iron wire, the core was isolated ok. I systematically checked smaller sections until I got past where the short was with my probes. I then backed up and located the offending kink in the copper wire that was touching the iron wire. With a little help from a jeweler's screwdriver, I was back in business. Yes, an O'scope would be very nice but then, I would have to learn what I was looking at on the screen and how to run the thing. Well, it's always fun to learn new things anyway.... ha ha. I don't think any of our coils is making enough volts to spark as of yet. There was a topic on OU somewhere where Stefan was talking about making a very small spark gap that would spark with very low volts. They were speaking of using two very sharpened graphite rods (think sharp pencil points) spaced about .002" apart. I believe they said this worked. They tried steel but it melted the sharp point off and made the gap too large to work anymore. If I can remember which topic, I will post it.
The resonant frequency and the electrical frequency are two different things as far as I know. As you said, we could strike the coils, core and all and it might "ring" at x frequency but I don't think this is related to the electrical resonance frequency. There are some relationships though, as in mass changes the sound freq. and length of wire and wire diameter changes electrical freq. If you look at the work Dr. Stiffler is doing in his topic, they are resonating a coil and a choke and lighting many leds and a neon bulb with way less power than is supposed to be possible. But, it only happens at one particular freq. That is a good topic to read through if you have not. Most of it is over my head electronically speaking but he now is offering complete boards and also kits you can assemble yourself to help him get the replication results he is after. Very cheaply priced. He may have sold them all by now but his pc board and components assembled was less than I could buy the stuff for and do myself. (If I had the money, I would buy one)
Again, there is so much out there we have not even begun to think about yet.
Bill
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When you say one of your coils is shorted, shorted how? And how do you know?
Well,
I have been calling it broken til today. Here is what I see.
I get zero voltage everywhere dc or ac or amps across the 5,6 wires. zero. nada.
The resistance is 3.1 ohms across the cu to FE wires or the cu itself or the fe itself. Everywhere. They are all the same amount.
There should be some difference and I am pretty sure it used to be 1.6 on the cu and higher on the fe...and way way higher on the 2 wires...
It is my #3 coil. I have used it and tested it for a while, so I have an idea what it should do. It is a very small coil but proportionately it has a large secondary. I'd guess the secondary is more than twice the number of turns of the copper in the primary.
This coil has always given me 'strange' but good results. And even using just what still works on it, I am getting a voltage reading from one secondary to another secondary even though there is no voltage in the primary.
HOW IS IT DOING THAT?? and it has done that all along. but before there was SOME voltage in the primary.
It is this coil that makes me wonder if it really matters for us to be trying to get higher voltage for the primarys. I was getting 18millivolts dc from the 5,6 wires and 230mvdc or 300mvdc (I don't remember which now), from the secondary to the 6fe.
Now, it is from the secondary that is wound around the 6fe wire to the secondary that is wound around the primary.
This is amazing.
I don;t get this sort of thing from any other coils. I have 3 more coils with secondarys. They are all proportionately less than this one to their primarys but I get zero from all of them when I check 6FE to the secondary. They must be stepping down the ac which is possible indication that it really IS ac we have.
I won't take this coil apart, just yet. I want to make one that is as like it as possible. I think I made good notes back then... I hope.
thank you for your ideas.
jeanna
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Bill,All waves are *************A.C.************ to start with.Ham Radio Hand Books is a nice place to start.Because it talks about building coils and antennas,also resonant frequency that way you will be absolutly for certin what frequency you are on.The math isnt very difficult I used to do it.It has all the formulas to determinthe resistance,reactance and capacitive reactance,Olms law and such.there was a book that had a chart by "sims" that gives your capacitive reactance .if i rember correctly.Another book can be found at radio shack "Engineers mini-notebook"by Forest Mims on the frount in black is a free energy circuit.Antenna a coil, ground and a capacitor that is all.Where the energy comes from is no secret you can tap the ionosphere or utilize waves in the air or we call it the ambient.Tesla did this 1932 with his little black box which coined in 1998 to run the car in Buffalo New York.He built a super hetrodine with radio active cesuim tubes "then they were called cold cathodes" (dont expect to find that much radiation in tubes today) used the radiation to help amplify the in comming radio waves.same as a *********photomultiplyer.same theory**************.also you need a good detector like germanium.There is a better detector if I remember right it is .a (substance callad triboluminesant mineral) A wave that it every where is the 408Mhz,and the (ionosphere is around 5-15 Mhz that would be the ones I would be interrested in building a power unit for the house.I am currently as the money comes building this one) and a new type, my design homopolar generator of the third kind because it taps directly into the Eather.I will get electricity or propulsion hopefully both wont know till i test. it will be ready in 3 weeks already have most parts except the bearings.Im interrested in this coil because it is a bifilar.Spun a different way.As far as batteris go There was abunch of sandwitched aluminum sheets that absorbed electrons out of the ambient I forget the name .Was on keelynet years ago.I wanted to try this with my strawberrys.Sorry so scattered brain tonight very late for me,Im up because im in alot of physical pain because of the weather.Regards Andy "I hope something in this scribelins will help"
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I got my 3rd pancake coil finished
I played with seeing if it affected my other coils
The best numbers I got was
.298 mA and .925 V DC
That is about half a volt more than I was able to get with just my first 2 coils tonight .
Connecting them is not straight forward
In general it is close to series but not exactly
I wound the 3rd coil reverse from the other 2 ......... So far I don't see any difference in anything because of the direction of the winding ......... if I flip it over it is in effect wound the opposite way
gary
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@all,
This link http://www.nathanstubblefield.com/contents.html provided earlier.. I had read before but looking over it again just wanted to point out a few things and ask a question. He does list in there some wire sizes.. "No. 20 copper wire, the coil forty feet in diameter with 42 convolutions..." "A coil as receiver of 26 ft. in diameter of No. 28 magnet wire with 40 convolutions with a double pole receiver..." another days tests "circular coils of No. 28 magnet wire 26 ft. in diameter with forty convolutions with forty eight cell dry batteries connected in with coil and carbon ball transmitter..." receiver "..two coils wire seven feet in diameter containing 33 convolutions each. First coil office wire No. 20 second or top coil of No. 20 Magnet wire with two bell receivers."
Yes, I know this did not deal with earth cells.. but he may have used some of the same materials since he was using it to do the same job... i.e. transmit wirelessly.
Questions. 1. what exactly is "office wire"?
#2. He mentions large diameters.. but the pictures I've seen all show round antenna which are clearly much smaller than that. Did he use larger antennas (if so are there any pictures) and if not.. was he possibly talking about the length of the wire used?
#3. I've done some research previously on carbon microphones and such. Does anyone have a good explanation on how this works? I looked for the information because of the picture I saw of NS's motor.. and it had a microphone attached to it. Also.. some of the things I read.. I think from the Bedini site or its links.. NS talked about sound from the ground. I was wondering if he used his voice.. or some other sound to possibly initiate or start the earth cell.. possibly by connecting the carbon mic to the coil on the outside of the bifillar earth cell. I know the mic creates current/signals so am just trying to figure out how it all fits.
@Bill.. I was hoping to someday see the things left from what NS used myself. I live in central IL. Am hoping to take a vacation down that way sometime in June or July. If yourself.. or anyone on here would like to meet up and take a day and research what we can, maybe we'll get lucky.
Thanks.
Dan
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This link http://www.nathanstubblefield.com/contents.html provided earlier..
Thanks for repeating that again Dan, When they email me I will buy that book. I just rediscovered it yesterday.
Yes, I know this did not deal with earth cells.. but he may have used some of the same materials since he was using it to do the same job... i.e. transmit wirelessly.
What I think about this is this. NS was an experimenter. We know what that means. He poked and improved everything all the time. I only have read 2 of his patents which are written 10 years apart. Now, that is a lot of time for gradual change that becomes major change.
Personally, I think this description is what the little battery we are making now eventually turned into. I am hoping that book will give further clues (notes) regarding the smaller movements from one to the other, or at least enough that I know what is going on. If you look at the fig that represents the large coil in his cell phone system it is enormous.......
Questions. 1. what exactly is "office wire"?
good ? . Maybe it is 2 strands like what we use now, or maybe it is like that thick round wire that can be found on some very old lamps from the early conversion to electricity...........
#2. He mentions large diameters.... but the pictures I've seen all show round antenna which are clearly much smaller than that. Did he use larger antennas (if so are there any pictures) and if not.. was he possibly talking about the length of the wire used?
Of course all that is possible. We do have a picture of a very large thing which I have decided is his very powerful battery. Really these things were generators, not batteries but he calls m that so I will (thanks Jim for that insight!) . I will crop the pic so it shows just the large battery but later.
#3. I've done some research previously on carbon microphones and such. Does anyone have a good explanation on how this works?
am just trying to figure out how it all fits.
I am not sure if this is what you are talking about, but I have a thing that came out of a modem. You can buy these at RS. Piezo mic or something?? (not carbon) I soldered a couple of copper leads to the little wires and I can hear the earth. If I put one lead on the 5cu wire and the other on the core piece 1 I hear a lot. It sounds like static and pops. The more noise the higher the voltage. I never saw that he said he could hear the earth but I thought that about this myself......
Hans gave a good description, if I remember, of how a carbon mic works. I also think Forest Mims does if you can find his books in a library.
@Bill.. I was hoping to someday see the things left from what NS used myself. ..... maybe we'll get lucky.
wow yes.
I was wondering if the museum curator who said no batteries just didn't identify them. I think there is a very good chance that there are a lot of them. just called something else. Maybe in a box in the basement. Remember that character on that radio show scamming folks for his info said he saw them at the museum?
Also, BTW I am making many small batteries because I have many ideas to try. I can expand any of them to larger dims and larger output when I understand what I am looking for. (my way ;) )
Thank you Dan, asking questions is the beginning of gaining answers. :D
jeanna
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Here is one of Bedini's pages where he gives some good insights.
http://www.icehouse.net/john1/stubblefield.html
This was probably the first site I had seen on him.
Maybe someone can pick up something else from what he says or the pictures he has there.
I keep reading all this with a lot of interest. I'll have to dig out the patents of his (NS) I read some time ago and go over them again.
Thanks for the thoughts shared.. and to be shared.
Dan.
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Here is a link to a Stubbfield book I have never seen
It is way beyond what I can pay for a book right now
gary
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Here is one of Bedini's pages where he gives some good insights.
I first learned about NS there too. I think Bedini puts some of his own ideas in there together with some other patents.
Bedini draws an underground battery that I don't see NS making. so it makes it confusing.
I keep reading all this with a lot of interest. I'll have to dig out the patents of his (NS) I read some time ago and go over them again.
This will make things easier:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=600457 (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=600457)
also after you download that one
plug in this number
887357
It is the one you were referring to before from the book.
jeanna
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Guys (peizoelectric effect)=microphone
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hummmm............... large diameter wires ******************strawberry fields for ever******** L.O.L.This makes sense because huge coils are low frequency, Antennas built right can be very small.The coil I need to build will be between 9-15 foot and the 15 foot would have many strawberrys.Last year when I was working on my formula for my next coil it took 2 weeks to put almost everything in order.The one I ended up with was 4.5 feet of size....... (00)........ copper cable.Still I would like to do a 9 and a 15 footer. but what would I do with all that electricity.this Set up shoots lightning bolts if not carful.Regards Andy (I think you are on the right track with a larger coil.) keep in mind Tesla's bifilar talked about 1000 turns of a #8 copper wire.there is another trick to these wires.spacing between the rotations should be the exacsize of the wire for a #8 then you could put a #8 in the space.with this new information I might find your frequency for you.BACK!!!!!!BACK!!!!!BACK to my drawing board!!!!!!!!!HA!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!
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Guys (peizoelectric effect)=microphone
no kidding? wow. thanks for that, andy!
Here is the promissed shot of the verrrry big battery in front of the family: Just try to imagine how much wire is in this. It has something stacked on top, or something on top, anyway. Maybe it is a hollow pipe, maybe not?
jeanna
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To match a coil or antenna here is the formula 1/4 wave (length=234/frequency) x 4 will give you the full wave length.1/4 is a subharmonic of the full wave length.So multiply the length x 234 And you will hit a subharmonic X 4 will give the full wave length.In Mhz hope this helps. Regards Andy
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Just for kicks and giggles (thats....speculation..... for non southerners) lets change diameters to length and see what happens?frequency wise in Mhz ****Im courious Andy*****
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"I had read before but looking over it again just wanted to point out a few things and ask a question. He does list in there some wire sizes.. "No. 20 copper wire, the coil forty feet in diameter with 42 convolutions..." "A coil as receiver of 26 ft. in diameter of No. 28 magnet wire with 40 convolutions with a double pole receiver..." another days tests "circular coils of No. 28 magnet wire 26 ft. in diameter with forty convolutions with forty eight cell dry batteries connected in with coil and carbon ball transmitter..." receiver "..two coils wire seven feet in diameter containing 33 convolutions each. First coil office wire No. 20 second or top coil of No. 20 Magnet wire with two bell receivers"Fantastic Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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12.48Mhz is a harmonic of the ionisphere and 12.48 hz is close to what Tesla said and a subharmonic of this coil YEPPERS there it is!!!!!!!!!!! Andy
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resonance freq.L.O.L is 37440Mhz plus another subharmonic of the 408mhz =11.470588 this means power is there!Andy
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Ill agree for it to be a super generator!
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I was thinking hummmmmmmm....................2 antennas would make it phase shift nicely.Oh hello wildbill this is Andy
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Jeanna, Thanks for the post.This coil was driving Wild I belive I understand what is happening.It taps into three major power sorces that I can calculate one being the 408mhz which is every where in our galaxy also the 12hz of the earth,plus the ionosphere 6-15Mhz and many other subharmonics.This coil can rock as a power sorce. One heck of a generator.Thanks for the pics.It put it all togather for me.Andy
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wow, I am so glad to oblige!
Don't go away!! ;D
I was just posting that this is the notes regarding his cell phone system. The receiver and transmitters have different lengths but I am sure they figure together just right. So, the little things we are making now (to get a handle on it) are tiny versions and home sized power stations. I am interested in finding how they work and making an individual household sized unit.
So How would you suggest scaling it down for that purpose? given that you are doing the math etc.
Also, I am personally interested in the math itself just cuz I like math, so, please "show your work" (I know you know what that means! ;D )
Wow
thank you andy,
jeanna
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Andy, I want to ask about these wire sizes.
no 20 and 28 magnet wire etc. are they normal american sizes like what RS calles these wires?
jeanna
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I would start with the numbers we just looked at.40 feet,build this size.and test the out put vs what you have now.just do incraminals to what the different size copper.
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Jenna,Go to home depot cheaper.These are standard wires no problem.My wires are cables the size of a 50c piece to the size of a silver dollar.Andy
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Sorry you are using magnet wire but still standard.not at home depot I dint think??????????
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the 40 ft was 40 ft in diameter? I want to start smaller than that.
Plus that thing was an extra coil strung up on ploes around an area of land. It goes along with the things we have been making which start things off (maybe)
The circuit diagram includes a separate battery which in the diagram looks to me to be this NS "battery"
so, please explain how to start smaller. I am lost here.
hmm I see some of your post...
jeanna
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Jenna,Go to home depot cheaper.These are standard wires no problem.My wires are cables the size of a 50c piece to the size of a silver dollar.Andy
what is that?
Isn't grounding wire 3/8 inch?
jeanna
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This is the patent that those notes are referring to.
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=887357 (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=887357)
a cell phone system. bigger than we need for our personal lives.
But a place to start with the math, I totally agree.
jeanna
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Jeanna,More like 3/4-1 1/2 inch In diameter copper wire.
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Jeanna,Also you can hit some of these coils with batteries
to get them to oscillate.Every time I get on a fe board I get bad virus.need to work on my computer to kill some bugs be back tomorrow.Andy
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Jeanna,More like 3/4-1 1/2 inch In diameter copper wire.
oic
here is a little pic from that patent. It shows a x-section of the cable and a schematic of the battery circuit with loop.
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Jeanna,Go back and re-read my post. or call me eather doesnt matter.Andy
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Jeanna,Also you can hit some of these coils with batteries
to get them to oscillate.Every time I get on a fe board I get bad virus.need to work on my computer to kill some bugs be back tomorrow.Andy
get a mac! ;) ;) viruses hate macs
what does it mean to hit it with a battery? to get them to osc.
jeanna
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I made another small pancake coil
I insulated it with cotton this time
I am not sure it is OK ........it reads 10 M Ohms
Before I got it wet it read .145 V DC that is as high as I have seen dry so far .
The power is good .......after running a while I got a reading of 1.65 mA
. it is currently reading 424 V DC still going up slowly .
SOmetime tomorow I plan on seeing what all the coils together will produce
gary
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wow, gary, that is a lot of resistance. and it still gives that much volts n amps? coils are strange things.
Andy here is the cell phone patent again
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=887357
when you get that one then put this number into the blank space and it will fetch it for you
600457
or go to
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=600457
This is the bifilar coil we are talking about when we refer to the NS battery.
Let me know if you have a problem. This is the only patent place that I don't have some kind of trouble with. It is really easy.
jeanna
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40 ft diameter x3.14 =125.6 x 42 turns=...5275.2...... feet now do the wave length equasion.Regards Andy
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Who was it talked about stacking pancake bifilars?????????????? I think that is a great idea!!Andy ;Dmaking pancakes with strawberrys ;D
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I have taken a few readings with my 2 small pancake coils.
WIth with the first small pancake coil I made on top of my last pancake coil I get.
reading between 5 & 6 on the older ( and lower power ) coil
Parallel 1.890 mA .420 mV DC
Series 1.420 mA .270 mV DC
Just sitting on top of the other coil .........unconnected
.440 mA .470 mV
All these readings were taken after sitting a few minutes
All the readings I have checked with the stronger coil on top come up slightly lower \
Flipping the new coil to match the wind direction of the other coil comes up slightly lower too .
gary
The first reading of the starting surge when connecting in parallel is 2.6 mA
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wow, gary, that is a lot of resistance. and it still gives that much volts n amps? coils are strange things.
Jeanna
That resistance is not for the windings themselves ........that is between the windings
my other coils all show "over limit " for resistance
gary
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Tesla Coil Construction:
Tesla gave explicit instructions on how to construct a simple Tesla Coil system, which were published in the Electrical Engineer Vol. xxvi Nov. 17, 1898 No. 550, titled 'High Frequency Oscillators for Electro-Therapeutic and other Purposes'. This is available for free on-line at the Twenty First Century Books' site (http://www.tfcbooks.com/mainpage/site_map.htm).
Willy's Antenna Charger:
No need to use the Wayback site, as this page is still available directly from angelfire.com at:
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/capacitorcharger.htm
This paper is not the property of angelfire.com, and is posted all over the internet. It is not clear if anyone knows or is in touch with the purported author: CU 73 AE4YW Mitch. It is a very interesting paper and seems to be one of the original internet postings regarding antenna based atmospheric static electricity charging systems.
Overunity forums' affiliate site, Pure Energy Systems (PES Network, Inc.), has a couple open source projects regarding this type of system at: http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Radiant_Energy_Antenna_System
There doesn't seem to be any verifiable experiments that have reported any significant results; however, all projects and diagrams, including John Bedini's, seem to contain obvious flaws.
Tesla's Radiant Energy Device:
One thing to note about this is his emphasis on using plates with as large a surface area as practical. Another is that this system is not the same as Willy's. While Tesla used, I believe, the figure of a gain of 50 volts per foot of elevation, there seems to be a practical minimum height differential, below which no significant voltage is manifest.
Resonance:
There is a very interesting site regarding earth and planetary resonance at: http://home.gwi.net/~erichard/
Make sure to read the FASTER THAN A SPEEDING LIGHT page: http://home.gwi.net/~erichard/fastlit.htm
Squire Tree Antenna Patent:
Perhaps you are already familiar with this as Gen. Squire and NS collaborated together; while this patent wasn't directly concerned with developing a type of power source, it is related and provides some novel insight into the subject of earth/atmospheric electrical energy.
www.rexresearch.com/squier/squier.htm
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@mthompson, thank you for those links.
@Gary.
What are your thoughts about this spaqe between the main coil and the secondary ?
How much space did you leave on the coils you have secodarys on ?
gary
I thought I'd better bring this over here for the details.
I have made 4 coils with at least some form of secondary. The one I made closest to the patent description in terms of spool etc is giving the most dismal result.
I am not sure if it is because it cannot get moist very easily but even when I lift up the covering and spray water inside to the primary, the results are half of what they were before I added the secondary. I think this secondary has too few winds. It has 394 which is the whole red spool from RS, so I couldn't go higher but that is a filter (I think it is called that?) because the primary has about 360-400 turns of copper on it.
The other 2 that are in the ground have fewer winds than the primary but they don't seem to hurt the volts n amps as much. they are wrapped directly on the last covering of cloth that is over the primary.
The broken one is completely wild and crazy. It doesn't give ANY volts or amps on the primary and yet between One wire of the secondary and one wire of a second secondary that I wound around the iron wire 6 there is around 200 to 300 mvdc.
If I hook up a cap then the cap collects only 50mvdc. BUT still???? the other side of each wire is in the open air and the primary gives nothing. I love this little coil.
The secondary is around 2 1/2 times the turns of the copper of the primary. I was trying to be neat, but the primary was so bumpy I couldn't so I scramble wound it.
Did you try to make any kind of secondary yet?
Did anybody else?
thank you,
jeanna
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here is an interesting link
http://home.comcast.net/~onichelson/Fuelless.pdf
The last half of it is about the pancake coil
gary
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@ Jeanna:
300 vdc? Is this correct? I am just checking because that would be something we all need to attempt to replicate. I have not yet played with secondaries but, if I could get more juice, I would start playing today. I have actually been pretty busy at work but I will get back into the swing here shortly. I may have actually made enough money to buy some more wire.......look out... ha ha.
Bill
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oops!
thanks for keeping me honest. ;D
I fixed it.
Good to hear youve got work.
more money more coils! yeay!
jeanna
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Guys (peizoelectric effect)=microphone
no kidding? wow. thanks for that, andy!
Here is the promissed shot of the verrrry big battery in front of the family: Just try to imagine how much wire is in this. It has something stacked on top, or something on top, anyway. Maybe it is a hollow pipe, maybe not?
jeanna
Hi Jeanna,
Thanks for the picture in this post. I think the stuff on top is part of a capacitor stack Bedini refers to. Not sure if the big barrel like white part they are sitting on is part of that or not.. but the bottom left of the picture, does seem to be an earth cell. It is kind of where the front left leg of the bigger thing is.
How do others interpret this picture? What size would you guess the cell is?
Thanks,
Dan
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@ All:
Hopefully, this is an enlarged photo of Jeanna's shot. I think the large drum like thing is a large coil. and yes, I believe the small coil to the lower left is an earth battery. The stack of stuff on top? I don't really know but it looks to be square in shape and wrapped in a paper like material which reminds me of a very old transformer. Other than that, I have no idea.
@ Jeanna:
Thanks for posting that. Whenever I tried to cut it from the main pic, it was still to large a file to post here. I was able to play with the one you posted though...thanks.
Bill
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deleted
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Hey localjoe! Don't leave us!! :) I'm all for making an earth battery of the stubblefield design. I haven't posted much yet because I'm waiting for some wire, etc and I live FARRRR from any store :)
One thing I did notice missing in all the Stubblefield threads I found was an item that Timothy Thrapp alluded to when he mentioned it in an interview. It seems to me that the primary coil needs to be pulsed to act as a trap to receive in radiant energy. They way he described it seemed to be to use a magnetic switch (reed switch I suppose would work) and use the magnetism that would develop in the center rod when the wires are connected. I haven't tried it yet but from what I remember, he said when the primary wires are closed (not sure which of the 4 wires of the primary coil he was referring to) then it would develop enough charge between the copper and iron windings to induce a small magnetic field which would open the magnetic switch that would then open the circuit and repeat. I don't think I explained it right so feel free to jump in and correct me :) but I think it would create a 100Hz(?) oscillation that should then be in resonance with the circuit itself. Basically creating a pumping action which would then excite the outer HV coil. Anyone else see it this way or try it?
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Cheers mates
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Cheers mates
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@LocalJoe
Thanks for the link! I hadn't noticed it. I started researching stubblefield on this thread but picked up on the pumping action when I heard Timothy's radio interview. Funny because it was the thing that stuck out from his description of the battery. We have so much positive coming from the sun and the earth is such a huge negative that it seems the potential is just waiting there to be tapped. Well it's tapped all the time in lightning storms I guess :)
How can I send you my email address without posting it here?
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I think the large drum like thing is a large coil. and yes, I believe the small coil to the lower left is an earth battery. The stack of stuff on top?
yup, that is the reason I posted the pic. I think we all missed it in the beginning but I am pretty sure it is a biggie. and in the full picture there are 2 of them.
The stack of stuff. well I have never seen the old type of transformer Bill referred to.
I see a book or maybe the patent standing up in front of the stack. I was thinking it might be the total paperwork involved in getting the patent or something like that. It was a family photo and maybe a celebration or something. (Did Hans say this in the beginning?)
But if transformers really looked like that back then, well, that is more likely.
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I keep having this picture pestering me. (a vision, you know) It says that this NS thing works like a transistor, and it has a small minimum voltage to get things started (the galvanic part) and when it is going and set up right it amplifies the effective power. I am not really ready to show this, but I wanted to throw it out. I will come back to it, I am sure, but I thought someone else might like to catch it and run for a while.??
I'm thinking the stake is the base and the wires are emitter and source in function.?
jeanna
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deleted
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storre:
Welcome to the group here. I am working on a device to make/break the copper and iron wire to pulse the secondary. I have several designs in mind and am working on one of them at this time. That is what we are doing, and going to do with the secondary windings...pulse the primary to get out out ac in a, hopefully, higher voltage. My goal is to boost the primary output as much as possible prior to utilizing the secondary. I am up to an almost consistent reading of about 75 mA's at close to 1 volt dc. I have some other ideas for a larger primary with slightly different winding procedures which I will try when a few of my Clients pay me so I can purchase the mass quantities of wire required. Glad to have yet another experimenter join us here, this will be interesting. Feel free to post about anything you think might be related to our work here. If you, or anyone, has a "crazy" idea, we want to hear about it. There is so much we don't know yet about these devices so it is very hard to tell what is crazy and what may be a breakthrough idea.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
I think that is a book, and yes, it appears to be leaning against something flat and much larger. (Probably an autographed photo of Tesla, ha ha)
Actually, I think in some ways, his device WAS acting like a transistor. It is after all an amplifier right? The first transistors were used in amplifier circuits. (My Dad worked with them at Bell Labs) I like your thought processes. That never crossed my mind until you pointed it out.
Bill
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Hi all I got a 2.7 ? (70mm) long by ?? (6.35mm) wide rod of magnesium and a 12? (305 mm) long by ? ? (6.35mm) wide rod of carbon , (carbon north magnesium south). I got .722 vdc .066 ma, I got more power with copper to steel 9.62 vdc .140 ma (maybe its my soil) but the funny thing is I got the highest readings with carbon to steel 1.020 vdc .210 ma. Next I will try to get some super caps hook them up to their own pair of rods then hook the super caps in series and see if this set up can give off more power.
Ps nightlife posted a link in the other discussion http://www.metacafe.com/watch/915226/free_electricity_from_thin_air/
I think this is amazing, I wonder how much ma this thing can give you and if it can be hooked up in series or hooked up to the rods/ super caps set up (if the rods/ super caps set up even works) I cant wait to try these two things, then I will move on to building my first NS coil.
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funny thing is I got the highest readings with carbon to steel 1.020 vdc .210 ma. Next I will try to get some super caps hook them up to their own pair of rods then hook the super caps in series and see if this set up can give off more power.
Hi Kevin,
I wonder if your steel is not galvanized (zinc coated) steel. That would still be high, but it does make more sense because the carbon and the zinc are on opposite sides. also good amperage for this kind of thing, I think. Good going.
My soil is sooo neutral. I never get high readings. Its OK it just makes me try harder ;D
Ps nightlife posted a link in the other discussion http://www.metacafe.com/watch/915226/free_electricity_from_thin_air/
After watching this I got to thinking about my consistently low readings. I made a crystal radio. It works. I eventually did prove that, but I don't get a signal; then one day, I turned on an AM radio and discovered there is no AM radio station broadcasting around here. No AM radiowaves.
I am wondering if that is affecting my earth batteries results. Maybe not, just a thought.
That guy who did that vid is cool. (did you look at the rest of his things? His first is a stop motion that really is funny.)
then I will move on to building my first NS coil.
yeay!
jeanna
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@ Kevolts:
That is strange. I was getting like 2.4 vdc and up to 9mA's with my similar set-up. Were they aligned on the meridian? (Not compass north south) Was the + rod (carbon) in the ground deeper than the -? The angle measure from the bottom of the rods in the ground should be roughly close to the dip angle for your area. For me here it was about 60 degrees based upon my separation distance of about 5 feet. We have had a range of results from different areas but I would check the above to see if this was correct. Thanks for posting the video link here. I had seen that before and it made me wonder also what I might get using this method in combination with my other experiments. He never did say what kind of power he was getting though did he? I just saw volts readings. Let us know how the super cap tests go. I have always wanted to try that but I only have one here right now.
@ Jeanna:
You have NO am radio stations near you? Where the heck do you live? You must be way out in the boondocks in the pacific northwest somewhere. Maybe you DO have am stations near you but your coils are acting as a force field blocking the signals? (Ha ha)
Hey, I just had another idea for standard testing Jeanna. What if, after recording all of my data on my larger coil here, I dig it up and ship it to you? You test it and take readings and then, we ship to another in our group, say Gary, and so on, and so on. What do you think? Not that my coil is the best or anything, we could use anyone's coil just to compare and either put an end to the soil thing or discover why there is a difference in the soils. Might this work?
Bill
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You have NO am radio stations near you? Where the heck do you live? You must be way out in the boondocks in the pacific northwest somewhere. Maybe you DO have am stations near you but your coils are acting as a force field blocking the signals? (Ha ha)
Hey, I just had another idea for standard testing Jeanna. What if, after recording all of my data on my larger coil here, I dig it up and ship it to you? You test it and take readings and then, we ship to another in our group, say Gary, and so on, and so on. What do you think? Not that my coil is the best or anything, we could use anyone's coil just to compare and either put an end to the soil thing or discover why there is a difference in the soils. Might this work?
Bill
I think in the long run we will need to come up with a standard coil ...... but passing a few coils around might be a way to come up with a stndard coil
I can't help out much with how they react to being in different locations and soil types .......I am currently living in the city and don't have access to a place to plant them .
gary
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@ Bill thanks, I guess I need a better compass to show the meridian and how deep to put the carbon rod. I only separated the rods by 1 foot (305 mm). The funny thing is I guess that the magnesium and the carbon should of gave off a higher reading than the copper steel, but it did not, (maybe something is wrong with the magnesium I ordered.) I will get a better compass so I can try my best to replicate your set up, thanks again for pointing out about the meridian, and I will try my best to get some super caps to try the in series concept.
@ Jeanna
I really don?t know what kind of steel it is but I did get a smaller steel screw and test it with the carbon rod and got about the same. I wonder if there is a way to find out and if there is a way to know if the magnesium is pure, I don?t think I have any flint.
Kevin
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Kevin
Kevin,
You may have already done this, but just in case you didn't I'll describe.
My readings changed a lot when I moved one of the probes to different locations. Just on the surface, with the Southern one, keep checking until you get your best spot then bury it a bit.
And remember- keep all the dirt off it and your probes. And keep your probes off the ground, too.
I think mine would change by .2 to .3 volts just from a small direction adjustment. I also suggest, if it is possible to separate them a bit more than 1 foot. If I remember, Bills are about 9 or 10 ft apart?. Mine are about 5 feet apart. I got my best reading from carbon granules from a spent water filter and magnesium fire block,. It is pretty hard to set up a circuit between these materials, but mine was at times 1.64vdc between those, but I never was able to get enough into a cap from that to light an LED. My carbon rods only gave me 1.53vdc to magnesium. And all had too few mAmps to even light a LED. (but winter was starting and I admit, I let the cold stop me.
Keep poking ;D,
jeanna
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Yesterday I found a lot of cycling in my coils. I even took a movie pic of it to be sure. I am glad I did, because I don't find it today.
What I find today is a drop or a rise that eventually becomes a steady amount. I reported this before without the cycling, so I only need to say that with one wire the amount goes up and with the other it goes down. the difference yesterday, is that it cycled.
I can't make this out, but there it is. I will continue to check this in case it returns.
It occurrs to me that this is the important place to check anyway. I put the probes on the wires (say, the 10's) and then I read what happens when I touch either the other copper wire or the other iron wire to the corepiece 1. These are coils that have some kind of secondary. In fact if I connect the meter to the iron wire and to one side of the secondary, then touch the other side of the secondary to the corepiece 1, then I get some real changes too. Again, where they pulsed yesterday, they seem not to today. :(
This is all with Amps.
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more later, when I finish my next control coil.
jeanna
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Ps nightlife posted a link in the other discussion http://www.metacafe.com/watch/915226/free_electricity_from_thin_air/
I think this is amazing, I wonder how much ma this thing can give you and if it can be hooked up in series or hooked up to the rods/ super caps set up (if the rods/ super caps set up even works) I cant wait to try these two things, then I will move on to building my first NS coil.
The circuit shown in the video seems to be a somewhat minimized copy of the circuit used in Joe Tate's Ambient Power Module (APM) design. For those interested in antenna power systems its worth reading the very informative page over at Rex Research: www.rexresearch.com/tate/tate.htm
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OK everybody,
This is how my day began.
Newly awake to the day, I had the thought about a transistor not doing much when not set up correctly. (I have thought this before, and it is part of what I mean when I say 'maybe this is a transistor'.)
A transistor has 3 legs. If there is nothing going through the base, then there will be nothing going through the emitter/collector either.
So, I woke up with this thought. Maybe there must be 2 of these. Maybe what is at the other end of that 30 ft wire in the earth is another NS coil. and together and through the earth there is a circuit. The direct connection from one to the other is one part of the circuit, and the connection through the resistance of the earth is the rest of it - a full circuit.
My first project in the electronics lab (my only ever electronics course before this one here) was a basic logic probe set up with 2 amplifying transistors and a light but with the circuit being open.
With the battery on there was no light.
If you shorted the 2 ends that were open, there was still no light, but
when you touched both open ends with your hands, the resistance across your body completed the circuit and the light glowed!
Thank you, Francis Rutherford!!
Francis, the teacher, had tweeked a normal logic probe circuit and rigged this up to catch the attention of the teenagers who were his real students. (I was an adult drop - in ;) )
Now, my only question is this. If we do get this to work this way, will it use the galvanic currents all in one direction thus making the cell get gummed up? (we know they did not get gummed up, so I want to add that at this time.)
jeanna
EDIT:
just to prevent confusion. I mean that the galvanic reax from each battery switches place. At one time being the battery in the circuit and at the other being quiet while the other one is providing the battery. And, this would mean that the 2 NS cells switch off. I am probably making it more confusing. The reason I mentioned the logic probe circuit with its 2 transistors was to focus on the open part. The logic probe circuit is not the same as what I think this is.
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So, I woke up with this thought. Maybe there must be 2 of these. Maybe what is at the other end of that 30 ft wire in the earth is another NS coil. and together and through the earth there is a circuit. The direct connection from one to the other is one part of the circuit, and the connection through the resistance of the earth is the rest of it - a full circuit.
Jeanna
I sometimes make a point of remaining in that half sleep state for a while in the morning to explore ideas about how things work. . It is almost like a different mode of thought.
I am not sure of how you intend to wire your cells like a transistor ..
One thing that might help ....... I have read several places that more than 6 feet is needed between cells .
If we are picking up the energy that is flowing just under the surface of the whole earth .......there must be eddy currents .
A coil should pick up these eddy currents better than a steady one directional current .
If we assume that the eddy current vortex is at least 6 feet it seems to me that if you have 2 coils connected and one is in an eddy current and one is not .......you should get a good reading between them .
gary
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Last night while the site was dropping off the face... I made a small drawing of the circuit called a human detector. It is that modified logic probe I mentioned.
Things to notice are:
The circuit is open on the left end.
one transistor is connected to the other base to emitter and that second one is the one that lights the light.
The resistor is between the battery and the second one but the charge flow is going first through the 2 bases.
When a proper amount of resistance is provided across the open probes (in this case your 2 hands) like 15kohms etc the light will light up. This is rigged to use a 3v battery.
OK so, I am only posting this because it is what inspired me to think that the NS battery might act like a transistor. One that contains its own battery. This would mean to me that this is only going to show something if it is made to work, and since the pics of NS usually show more than one unit spaced from each other, I wondered if it works best stepped up a little like this.
This circuit is NOT the one we have because the transistor IS ALSO the battery, if this idea is even right.
Here it is to look at. I will post some results later. My preliminary tests from yesterday indicate that this may lead us somewhere. I will take some more measurements today. I need 2 cells that are identical to get a truly meaningful result, and that will mean making another coil to match one of these I already have.
jeanna
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If you shorted the 2 ends that were open, there was still no light, but when you touched both open ends with your hands, the resistance across your body completed the circuit and the light glowed!
When you say 'resistance' do you really mean 'capitance'?
Here is something that might be relevant, or not, from Tesla's research:
1893-02-24.htm
ON LIGHT AND OTHER HIGH FREQUENCY PHENOMENA
Delivered before the Franklin Institute, Philadelphia, February 1893,
and before the National Electric Light Association, St. Louis, March 1893.
Section: ON ELECTRICAL RESONANCE
In Fig. 20 I / 184 I. is shown a plan which has been followed in the study of ,the resonance effects by means of a high frequency alternator. C1 is a coil of many turns, which is divided into small separate sections for the purpose of adjustment. The final adjustment was made sometimes with a few thin iron wires (though this is not always advisable) or with a closed secondary. The coil C1 is connected with one of its ends to the line L from the alternator G and with the other end to one of the plates C of a condenser C C1, the plate (C1) of the latter being connected to a much larger plate P1. In this manner both capacity and self-induction were adjusted to suit the dynamo frequency.
As regards the rise of potential through resonant action, of course, theoretically, it may amount to anything since it depends on self-induction and resistance and since these may have any value. But in practice one is limited in the selection of these values and besides these, there are other limiting causes. One may start with, say, 1,000 volts and raise the E. M. F. to 50 times that value, but one cannot start with 100,000 and raise it to ten times that value because of the losses in the media which are great, especially if the frequency is high. It should be possible to start with, for instance, two volts from a high or low frequency circuit of a dynamo and raise the E. M. F. to many hundred times that value. Thus coils of the proper dimensions might be connected each with only one of its ends to the mains from a machine of low E. M. F., and though the circuit of the machine would not be closed in the ordinary acceptance of the term, yet the machine might be burned out if a proper resonance effect would be obtained. [/b]I have not been able to produce, nor have I observed with currents from a dynamo machine, such great rises of potential. It is possible, if not probable, that with currents obtained from apparatus containing iron the disturbing influence of the latter is the cause that these theoretical possibilities cannot be realized. But if such is the case I attribute it solely to the hysteresis and Foucault current losses in the core. Generally it was necessary to transform upward, when the E. M. F. was very low, and usually an ordinary form of induction coil was employed, but sometimes the arrangement illustrated in Fig. 20 II., has been found to be convenient. In this case a coil C is made in a great many sections, a few of these being used as a primary. In this manner both primary and secondary are adjustable. One end of the coil is connected to the line L1 from the alternator, and the other line L is connected to the intermediate point of the coil. Such a coil with adjustable primary and secondary will be found also convenient in experiments with the disruptive discharge. When true resonance is obtained the top of the wave must of course be on the free end of the coil as, for instance, at the terminal of the phosphorescence bulb B. This is easily recognized by observing the potential of a point on the wire w near to the coil.
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When you say 'resistance' do you really mean 'capitance'?
you lost me mthompson,
I did mean resistance. When I tested the "human detector" which is what Francis call his little circuit, (The kids called it things like 'zombie detector, etc. ;D ) I put a potentiometer across those probes (on the left) and found that with a 3 v battery and a 330R resistor just in series with the neg side of things, the light would glow just at 8,000 ohm and was bright with the resistance right up to 1.9Mohm. but it would go off if the wires were simply connected at that point.
I think that is the sort of head scratcher we are seeing with unexpected numbers on our NS coils.
I am willing to indulge in a thought or 20 about Tesla stuff, but you really lost me here. ;)
If you would like to explain why you thought I should have meant capacitance I will entertain your explanation, but right now, I don't see what it means.
And, if there really were such high frequency in these coils, wouldn't it make itself more obvious?
I have not had the experience of working with any Tesla coils.
thank you,
jeanna
PS The oddest thing. Above your post the thread seems to have a different name. You seemed to be addressing me so I returned to you, but I did not use the quote reply method because it appeared to be a new thread???
weird stuff today.
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G'day all,
Just to let you know that I am alive and well. I have been very busy working on a new project. I have posted my latest attempt at investigation under half baked ideas, if someone is interested. It really has no place here and I don't want to post too far off the subject.
Greetings
Hans
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Guys,(1) It seems to me that iron in any part of a system is there to increase the magnetic field /permability. (2) and can increase resistance as in the small iron wire.(3)if you have a resistor,they can also have a capacitance action because of the build up of protons which is voltage trying to get to electrons (voltage pulls ;D trying to get his hands on the strawberrys and electrons pushes) in what is call breakover voltage going through the resistor.it all piles up till the potential voltage or (magnetic field) is strong enough to get close enough to the electrons for the electrons jumps to it(4).High resistance will have more voltage build up behind the resistor helps to increase the protons.(5) (positive and negative ions are constantly looking to balance out)(6)The galvanic action havent worked with that before.I would probly think zink positive or (voltage) and copper negative or electrons ( amperage) Volts x amps = watts......volts / resistance = amps then you multiply VxA Regards Andy
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@ Hans:
Please feel free to post whatever you want to here. It's good to hear from you my friend. I now have another reason to drink a toast to you. I will check out your "half baked" idea although, knowing you, I am betting it is pretty well near done...maybe 92% baked.
I started this topic because our research has led us in many seemingly different directions. That is fine. I still say since we don't know exactly what is happening and why, we can't really say that this or that is not related can we? Good to hear from you. I will drink a toast to you this evening....hey, it is this evening already....good.
@ Jeanna:
I don't really understand your circuit but, that is my fault not yours. I have many holes in my knowledge of this stuff that I am attempting to fill. Are you suggesting that 2 coils (exact duplicates) might set up their own resonance and feed off of each other? If this is the case, I, with my limited knowledge, must agree. This certainly sounds like something we should explore. And, you are right about NS's batteries, you never see just one of them in the pics do you? you may very well be on to something here.
Bill
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capacitance. If you had 2 plates with a air gap or dielectric between them (E.M.F. voltage)......... capacitance (one side is how much voltage or emf) and (the other side is how many electrons) when the pressure gets high enough the electrons goes to the voltage, all can be calculated. by how many protons can be put on 1 plate and how many electrons on the other plate 2 before the flow.It is called capacitance because at full capacity or (all this little plate can hold then you have a over flow of electrons) or electrical current. 8)
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Questions (1)some one was talking about *****************super caps what size and where did you get them*******(2)does these coils have a ground if so what size??????????Regards Andy
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Jeanna,Remember with sound you can have a speaker with a coil and a speaker without a coil in a resonant chamber they both work (the dummy speaker has a paracitic action from the other speaker) the same is coils.Andy
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@ Andy:
The coils themselves have no ground that I know of. What I have seen is one wire is usually the minus and one wire is usually the positive. (copper usually the +, iron wire and the core usually the-) That is one of the very interesting things I have learned thus far. Everything I have learned about electricity is not necessarily correct. In my tree array experiments, I found that the earth is positive and the tree is negative. Kind of funny poking a meter probe into the earth and finding out that, in this case, the earth "ground" is positive. I can supply more details on this particular experiment if you want me to. the main thing I am learning through all of this is that, nothing is as it seems, or was taught to me.
Bill
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@ Andy:
I remember in the 70's that Panasonic came out with a "passive reflex" speaker system just as you described. It had a 15" driven woofer, and another 15" speaker with no coil that moved with the driven one. I knew my years in college playing with music might come in handy one day.
Bill
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Bill, You have to think backwards because, Electrons are positive ("push") this was done by early electrical investigations this is found in the early explantion of electricity to make it "simple to explain"which I personally find it very annoying.All of the electrical books will tell you that.In the book (Electronics The Easy Way)."Which is backwards.but still informative.thats kinda like (colombs,farad,ions,positive and negative ions)(Ide rather to calculate how many electrons and protons ;D p.s dont try this unless you have a super calculator) or keep it simple (volts, amps,watts,resistance,and (gauss or Tesla) I really dont care about orsters L.O.L Andy
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mmmmm
I was away for a while, now to catch up.
The resistance of the little human detector circuit is what makes it work. It is what connected some of the dots for me.
Andy, the coils are pounded into the ground. I would say there is a ground.!!!
It is what looks like the base to me.
In the early tests we were doing with metal probes in the ground, I and others measured the resistance of the ground. It is a very big part of the picture in an earth battery. There is a lot of resistance in the ground. The more distance, the more resistance.
So, the ground in my little circuit becomes the real ground between 2 NS coils.
The coils are connected above the ground by their copper wires. say the 10's.
Now, call that the Vcc of the little circuit.
Notice that the base of one is connected to the collector of the other. This is where the amplification comes from. Once the base to emitter of the 'lower' transistor has its forward voltage requirement, the electrons will zoom over from the emitter to the base of the 'upper' transistor which gives IT the forward voltage it needs, and now its electrons will zoom across the p/n junction and now the light that didn't have enough amps before has plenty.
What I am thinking is if we put 2 NS coils into the ground about 6 ft apart. both will be at the ground of the circuit. They have to be. One will have a connection from its base to the collector of the other. (there is no matter which one is called what. There is no diode here that I know of.) That means connect the base - stake- to the opposite copper wire.
As a matter of fact the Vcc is at both sides because each one produces some of the voltage.
I am unable to draw a circuit that will be comparable to the human detector. I don't know if that is needed, but I am looking for some kind of transistor type circuit that uses both batteries and both sets of copper wires.
To leave the 10's alone to preserve the voltaic couple (which is what he says) could be the same as to connect both copper wires of the 10's and call that the Vcc.
I do get an amplification when I connect them in the style of this above circuit. There may be a better transistor circuit that will make use of what we have more than how I have set it up.
The problem with my results is that my coils are not all alike. There is a potential difference between dissimilar coils, so I am reluctant to print too much right now. I will sort it out and report something.
OK for now.
jeanna
PS I KNOW you don't want me to print everything do you?
edit
I will repost that circuit with some labels and the ground shown.
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Guys,Call me crazy but; I seems to me a very weak ground with very high resistance. Yes there is a ground there but, not much electron flow.As you describe this system your oscillations are fantastic its moving its doing something to get the readings you are getting.Did I understand someone was getting 2-300 volts!!!!!! or was that mv. I definatly can work with that.Even at very low amps,amps are easy to increase.I will have go back through the post to find how that was done because I would like to repeat this and test it for myself .I would like to use a (variac to set the electron flow) and several marx generators. and mabe a shunt resistor accros the capacitor.and attached it to this circuit or use super caps connected togather to make a marx generator.If you didnt know super caps self oscillate even when disconected.Regards Andy
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Did I understand someone was getting 2-300 volts!!!!!! or was that mv. I definatly can work with that.
Even at very low amps,amps are easy to increase.I will have go back through the post to find how that was done because I would like to repeat this and test it for myself
Andy,
I am sure that was a typo. we have been hard pressed to get more than a volt or 2.
Mine are small and I get anywhere from 50mv to 700mv
Bill gets more. but max is usually below 2v.
Now, I want to be sure I didn't confuse you with my drawing.
These NS coils are about 12 inches high and 1 1/2 inches diameter. That is the primary.
Stubblefield says to use the secondary for the output. Hardly anyone else has a secondary. They do make a difference.
OH good. I do hope you make 2 coils.
perhaps you ought to print out the patent?
In case you haven't yet it is 600,457
jeanna
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Jeanna,you said you were going to send me a link for patients I havent got it yet :( I wanted to try In making my own galvanize rods I have 14 pounds of 99% pure zink.I work in a salvage yard so I can get plenty of rebar and copper.I have about 100lbs here at home I have bought. Regards Andy
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Jeanna,you said you were going to send me a link for patients I havent got it yet :(
OOPS sorry
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=600457 (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=600457)
There you are right to it.
I will check in a minute to be sure you got it ok
jeanna
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Jeanna!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW The primary of this coil was #8 solid copper wire,The bolt was a cairage bolt.The secondary was #12 solid copper.made a nice electro magnet.Probly spelled cairage bolt wrong.Nice strawberrys in this coil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THANKS I pretty sure I Understand this circuit now!!!Regards Andy ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Gary did you get my last post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The primary of this coil was #8 solid copper wire,The bolt was a cairage bolt.The secondary was #12 solid copper
where did you get those wire sizes? how did I miss them?
Please explain how you figured out the wire sizes. I missed that all along.
thank you
jeanna
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Jeanna,I work in a scrap yard!!!!!!!been doing for 40 years I reconize (flat wound generator copper wire)when I see it.I would go to a #10 on the secondary though but 12 will be just fine!!!!!!!!!!! will have to spin some #8 to figure out what size bolt.will make a nice electro magnet.I wonder if it can be made with some N50 or N52 magnets as a bolt ??? ??? ???
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I will post one of today's tests only.
The picture shows roughly how it was tested.
I hooked the copper to copper with the meter between
Just by itself that reads 0.533vdc
I also connected the other copper on the left one to the base of the one on the right.
by itself this reads -0.170vdc
So, together the meter should read 0.363vdc (when it looks just like the pic with both at the same time)
but instead they read 0.710vdc with 0.835mAmps
-
I was reluctant to use this example because if that -170 were shifted to +170 then the 2 would add up. The thing is that - is real. I took 14 readings and only 4 of them were -.
This same odd negative shift occurred in one other reading, too.
Have a look. I will read these again tomorrow.
jeanna
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Andy,
I didn't mean that. I meant where did you see something that made you know it was wires of that size?
in the drawing?
thanks
jeanna
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28 turns x 5 primary and I counted 41 turns on the secoundary but Im legaly blind so you need some one to blow this up and check it.the gage iron wire needs to match the size of the copper,probaly bailing wire for the secondary :o Andy
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Jeanna,I blew up the patient where i could see it and i saw the flat wound wire that is transformer and generator wire I buy it every day.Im the shop forman that buys all of the copper,aluminum,brass,stainless steel,I grade stainless steel almost by eyesight,I grade all of the copper,and brass.I buy silver,and recycle gold also in the yard.!!!!!
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guys,I didnt see anything in the patient about bifilars what am i missing ???Andy
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Gary did you get my last post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andy
I have been doing other things most of the day
Just getting caught up now..
In another post talking about iron windings you said.
.High resistance will have more voltage build up behind the resistor helps to increase the protons.(5) (positive and negative ions are constantly looking to balance out
Are you saying that if we add a resistor that we will get more voltage from the iron winding?
I have been making the iron winding as thick as I could to keep the resistance as low as possible .
gary
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guys,I didnt see anything in the patient about bifilars what am i missing ???Andy
Andy
Nope
you didn't miss anything
This thread was created for " speculations "
We were looking at Tesla's electromagnet and wondered how much like a stubblfield coil it be if it was made with an iron winding .
The idea is .... the Tesla pancake coil ( with an iron winding ) looks alot like a slice of a stubblfield coil
gary
-
I did mean resistance. When I tested the "human detector" which is what Francis call his little circuit, (The kids called it things like 'zombie detector, etc. ;D ) I put a potentiometer across those probes (on the left) and found that with a 3 v battery and a 330R resistor just in series with the neg side of things, the light would glow just at 8,000 ohm and was bright with the resistance right up to 1.9Mohm. but it would go off if the wires were simply connected at that point.
I misunderstood your original post, thinking the circuit perhaps worked by added capacitance on the open ends which would allow a current to be established in the open ended wires, thus energizing the bulb circuit.
I am willing to indulge in a thought or 20 about Tesla stuff, but you really lost me here. ;)
You've made several references to Tesla in this thread and as he is the authority in discussions concerning establishing an electrical current in single wire circuits it seemed appropriate to quote him here. The Stubblefield 'voltaic couple' 'battery' you are researching is notable for using wire coils in place of plates, which leads to all sorts of unusual design characteristics, one of them being two 'terminals' for each 'plate', or four terminals for each bifilar coil 'plate cell' - not to mention the iron core you all are fond of connecting to. Figuring out how to wire this 'battery' seems to be a challenge, especially since a current flow is desired along the length of the coils to establish the electro-magnetic fields for the primary, while at the same time the galvanic action needs to be preserved, and the resistance of the iron wire also needs to be considered in relation to maximizing current and minimizing resistive heat losses.
One possibility then might be to establish, by the use of capacitance, an alternating or plused current in the open ended coil wires, thus avoiding shorting out the 'plate cell' pairs. If this could be done then you could wind numerous alternations of copper and iron wire pairs together around the iron core of a single 'battery', which would serve the same function of stacked plates in series in a regular voltaic couple, automatically providing an overall higher 'battery' voltage.
This whole train of thought is probably far from what Stubblefield did and not relevant to the issue, but then the thread is about speculations and I mistakenly thought you might have been discussing a capacitance situation.
PS The oddest thing. Above your post the thread seems to have a different name. You seemed to be addressing me so I returned to you, but I did not use the quote reply method because it appeared to be a new thread???
weird stuff today.
When a comment is left the subject line by default contains the name of the forum topic thread; however, it may be amended, as in emails, to let readers of the topic know at a glance what the comment is about. This can be useful in threads, such as this one, that have many ideas being tossed about at the same time; thanks in no small part to yourself. :)
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One possibility then might be to establish, by the use of capacitance, an alternating or plused current in the open ended coil wires, thus avoiding shorting out the 'plate cell' pairs. If this could be done then you could wind numerous alternations of copper and iron wire pairs together around the iron core of a single 'battery', which would serve the same function of stacked plates in series in a regular voltaic couple, automatically providing an overall higher 'battery' voltage.
Mthompson
can you explain a little more about how to go about this ?
I have played with the idea a little but havn't got anyhing to work so far .
My goal for the " core" part of the battery is a couple volts and maybe a hundred or so m A
AC would be ideal ....... DC makes things a bit harder .
One of my reasons for trying the Tesla pancake type winding is because if it works it would make a " modular " stubblefield cell .........just build and stack untill you reach the right power level.
I am still undecided about how well it works mostly do to the wiring there are many posabilitys ..... sometimes changing one wire and the voltage across the whole thing drops almost to nothing .
gary
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Cheers mates
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Thank you mthompson for all your thoughtful replies.
I printed out your reply from yesterday. Now, I will study it in light of your explanation.
thank you,
jeanna
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??? ??? ??? ???
For the record.
I have started 2 threads
1- examples of the tpu from nature.
2- Donkey's Solar Refridgerator in solar cooling
jeanna
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Cheers mates
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@ Localjoe:
I started this topic because you told Jeanna, and others, not to speculate and just stick to the coil project as you were working on it. That was fine with me, I even stuck up for you by saying you were correct and we need another place for the speculations. So, now we have it. I can't control who posts here or elsewhere, or not. Jeanna, nor anyone else, hijacked anything. I am astounded that you could be so confused about this.
There are some wild speculations taking place here and yes, some may end up having nothing to do with anything later on, but then again, one of them might be the key. I like to look at all ideas from a lot of different sources.
You are welcome to continue to post here but please refrain from insulting the other forum members that are doing their best to experiment and learn. You asked for that on the Earth Battery topic and I would like to think that the same rules apply here as well.
Bill
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Cheers mates
-
What i still cant figure out is why the folks wanting to replicate are in this thread and not mine where folks are replicating... i mean why waste the effort with speculative nonsense and no ee degree. At least we know what i have and what weve desphierd thus far from the pat is true and works.
Also jeanna i do hope your happy all folks with stubblefield questions or interest have come here to your "stubblefield thread" you've basiclly ruined the consise short path i tried to lay out for folks and keep them on track.. Im a 23 year old guy that has been busting his ass for this in this past year and im starting to get pissed that some older women that has no "real" clue waht she's doing is trying to educate people on tesla and Nathans patent.. Jeanna as for hijacking my thread hope ya feel good about yourself, i could have changed the name but i felt it nice to leave the original as "earth battery expermients" i clearley layed out a plan in that thread to start with rods and plates and progress shit we got as far as having 4 replications of nathans cell even one or 2 with secondaries.. i run out of money and you start this freakin thread .. what have you accomplished in all these pages .. more than we could have working togther on the plan i had layed out for testing and the switching? I think not.
Joe
Joe
SO you are only 23 . that explains alot .
Maybe in a few years you will learn a bit about tolerance and hopefully kindness too .
YOU complained about others going off topic on your thread so I for one have did my best to honor your wishes .
This thread was created as a place to talk about what intrests US ........It has NOTHING to do with YOU.
You arae welcome here of course if you play nicely .
If you want to whine and complain ....please do it on your own thread .
Just because my intrests don't exactly follow yours doesn't mean I am inferior or stupid . I am following my intrest . I am doing what I want to do rather than blindly following someone else . I have never been a follower.
Now please tell me this .
Why would anyone here want to go back to your thread after your badmouthing them?
Is there any reason we NEED your thread?
I prefure to share information with good thoughtful people .
Do you think your last post here shows you as a good person or a thoughtful person?
Please think about this for while
Until your next post I will assume that you were just having a bad day today
I will not think of these things again if your next posts here are friendly and respectful .
If your next posts are disrespectful you will go on my " not worth replying to list " .
gary
Edit
Joe I agree that running in place doesn't help anyone ........but I don't see myself as running in place .
Being disrespectful helps no one .......and may drive others away .
It WILL drive me away if it continues.
I make a point to be respectful of the people I choose to spend time with ....online or off .
I expect t them to show respect for others too .
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guys,I didnt see anything in the patient about bifilars what am i missing ???Andy
I first learned the word here. It simply means 2 wires wound together as one.
[ I think 'fila' comes from leaf so two leaves. I am not sure of that derivation. It is an interesting thing, but then I like words, too.]
So, having one cu next to one fe is the bifilar part.
yes?
jeanna
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Bill
This is really your thread
I hope I didn't step on your toes with my little rant
come to think about it ..... I probably wouldn't have said anything except I have been reading other threads for most of the last few days ........... some of them get so disrespectful and hostile ...... I stopped reading because I got tired of the disrespect .......then dropped in here to Joes post
Anyway .......I hope we can maintain the openness to new ideas and the respect for others in this thread .
gary
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Cheers mates
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So, having one cu next to one fe is the bifilar part.
Jeanna
UUUmmm
Not exactly
As I understand it bifilar means that 2 wires are wound together thoughout the coil
Most bifilar coils are copper / copper
gary
edit
you could call our coils bimetal bifilar coils
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Cheers mates
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@ Gary:
I didn't take it that way, don't worry about it. Your post made a lot of sense to me.
@ Gary and Jeanna:
"Below quoted from wikipedia:
Bifilar coil
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
? Learn more about citing Wikipedia ?
Jump to: navigation, search
Nikola Tesla's flat bifilar coil.
Nikola Tesla's flat bifilar coil.
A bifilar coil is an electromagnetic coil that contains two closely spaced, parallel windings. In engineering, the word bifilar describes wire which is made of two filaments or strands. It is commonly used to denote special types of winding wire for transformers. Wire can be purchased in bifilar form, usually as different colored enamelled wire bonded together. For three strands, the term trifilar coil is used.
Contents
[hide]
* 1 Description and applications
* 2 History
* 3 See also
* 4 References
* 5 External links
* 6 Patents
[edit] Description and applications
Four types of bifilar-wound coils
1. parallel-wound, series connected
2. parallel-wound, parallel connected
3. counter-wound caduceus coil (series)
4. counter-wound caduceus coil (parallel)
Some bifilars have adjacent coils in which the convolutions are arranged so that the potential difference is magnified (i.e., the current flows in same parallel direction). The magnetic field created by one winding is multiplied with that created by the other, resulting in a greater net magnetic field. Others are wound so that the current flows in opposite directions. The magnetic field created by one winding is therefore equal and opposite to that created by the other, resulting in a net magnetic field of zero (i.e., neutralizing any negative effects in the coil). In electrical terms, this means that the self-inductance of the coil is zero.
The bifilar coil (more often called the bifilar winding) is used in modern electrical engineering as a means of constructing wire-wound resistors with negligible parasitic self-inductance."
My understanding relates back to what Hans had said. He said something like (when referring to the patent photos) that these coils are wound in a bifilar fashion. I took that to mean that the two wires, different metals though they may be, are wound in a bifilar manner (parallel) around the core.
Bill
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Quote from Gary:
"you could call our coils bimetal bifilar coils"
Yes, I agree...excellent term. I think that is essentially what Hans had been saying but this terminology sums it up nicely.
Bill
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Hi peaple,
You might find these threads interesting,
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4623.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4599.0
Cliff,
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Some bifilars have adjacent coils in which the convolutions are arranged so that the potential difference is magnified (i.e., the current flows in same parallel direction). The magnetic field created by one winding is multiplied with that created by the other, resulting in a greater net magnetic field. Others are wound so that the current flows in opposite directions. The magnetic field created by one winding is therefore equal and opposite to that created by the other, resulting in a net magnetic field of zero (i.e., neutralizing any negative effects in the coil). In electrical terms, this means that the self-inductance of the coil is zero.
thanks Bill
I have a clearer understanding of self inductance now .......and hopefully a bit more understanding of how to
connect my pancakes
gary
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The only thing to add here is the interesting little experiment , which I haven't completed because all this winding is hurting, which involves checking out the difference in a coil with a copper wire whose copper is thinner than the adjacent iron wire. and vice-versa.
I thought of this experiment the day I noticed the drawing in the patent that NS relies so heavily upon, shows the copper including its wrapping to be exactly the same diameter as the iron.
Anyway, in a preliminary way, I will say that the one that has the thinner copper, thicker iron gives out much much more power than the one that is wrapped the opposite way. - That is both volts and amps.
The one I have not finished is one where both wires are the same thickness as each other. It is the control using the thicker wire for both. I only have the last iron wire row to complete. (Chad's way of wrapping ).
Now, I am going out to take today's measurements. etc....
jeanna
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@jeanna & Bill
I guess i was under the impression this thread was for speculations on the base station transmitter the second device in the patent, thats what you and bill said when you made it. Moral of the story is this .. If you guys want to continue here without me thats cool but its kinda shady to take all the work we have thus far and tell me your starting a thread for specualtions on the second device when in essence folks are dicussing the earth battery .. Might be nice if you folks kept the dicussion on the earth battery in my thread and the base station transmitter specualtions in here since we dont know how that works yet. Again if im way out of line i really will stop posting , its just sad to have gotten this far and have it now split.
Joe
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Hi peaple,
You might find these threads interesting,
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4623.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4599.0
Cliff,
interesting threads argona I can see that I am going to have to put making a tesla coil on my list of stuff to do .
The radioactive decay stuff is something I don;t think I want to play with though .
gary
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@ Joe:
I can't understand how you would be under the impression that this topic was for the transmitter coils? The title of the topic....Stubblefield coils (bifilar) and speculations sounds pretty clear to me.
I take personal offense at your word "Shady" to describe me starting another related topic because you were very mean to more than several folks on your topic. I did this to help you. I did this to allow free thought and speculations, hence the title of the topic. I thought this was what you wanted. I did not tell anyone to post here, or to not post on your topic. I would not do that. People have free will and will post where they please.
You drove some pretty hardworking experimenters away from the earth battery topic. I didn't say anything then as it was your topic and not my place to do so. If you don't, or won't believe me, go back and read when some folks left. The folks I am speaking of are not here on this topic either. To me, that is a shame.
I think you have a lot to offer and I have enjoyed working with you but, I also believe you need to work on your people skills a bit. Whether you do or you don't is not up to me, it is up to you.
You told us to make another topic to discuss "speculations" and that is what I did. How you could even think to call that action "shady" is beyond my understanding. When you get a little older, maybe you will understand a bit more, then again, maybe not.
Bill
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@Bill
Sorry, i guess i was a bit hostile after gary attacked me about my age. Regardless i guess im just pissed at the situation now not anyone in paticular. And since you hadn't responded to myself or jim in the other thread i took it as bon voyage. So again sorry i didnt meant to take it out on you, maybe sometime some folks will post there again. Till then i just wont worry about it, unless someone decides to involve me in a discussion I seem to piss people off when i give my opinion and 9 times out of 10 that wasn't the intention. I do send out an appology to everyone in this thread for cluttering it with my shit, best wishes in your earth battery experiments.
Joe
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Hi Resonanceman,
> I can see that I am going to have to put making a tesla coil on my list of stuff to do .
The monopolar electron pump.
The radioactive decay drive is just to show that it
should be possible to be done with electron disintegration
(electron/positron).
and then, to wonder about inverse generator mode, neutrino capture (not very good, it could disintegrate matter). And now to ZPE.
Its funny that 20% of Tesla?s wireless energy system could possibly be just sitting here on this open source site, and there?s been not one comment.
Strange isn?t it?
Cliff,
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Guys,The electromagnet can be made stronger or weaker,depending on how strong the electrical source of electricity is and upon the number of turns of wire around the core.We can increase the strength of the magnetic field if we increase the power of the electricity.Likewise,,.....if the number turns around the core is increased,this increases the strength of the electromagnet,......Increase in the size of the wire also increases the strength. In Transformers thin stacked plates are used.This is because of the permability that way we have very little loss in our magnetic fields.The coil we have here today is both,a magnet and a transformer.The steel wires appear to me as the stack of plates as in the transformer. Regards Andy
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Cliff,The Tesla Bifilar flips the electron ;D ;D ;D ;DAndy
-
"Inverse generator" 180 degree out of phase -phase shift ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Resonanceman,
> I can see that I am going to have to put making a tesla coil on my list of stuff to do .
The monopolar electron pump.
The radioactive decay drive is just to show that it
should be possible to be done with electron disintegration
(electron/positron).
and then, to wonder about inverse generator mode, neutrino capture (not very good, it could disintegrate matter). And now to ZPE.
Its funny that 20% of Tesla?s wireless energy system could possibly be just sitting here on this open source site, and there?s been not one comment.
Strange isn?t it?
Cliff,
You might try explaining your drawings a little more .
or better yet show an attempt at a working model ....... builders here get alot more respect than people with theories . Even if the theories are really good .
gary
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You don?t think the Electron shuttle looks like Tesla?s wireless energy?
(the missing transmitter)
sad, and hostile.
i deal with electrostatics. i have a 30 cm Wimshurst i built.
does that count as "builder"?
Cliff,
Hi Resonanceman,
> I can see that I am going to have to put making a tesla coil on my list of stuff to do .
The monopolar electron pump.
The radioactive decay drive is just to show that it
should be possible to be done with electron disintegration
(electron/positron).
and then, to wonder about inverse generator mode, neutrino capture (not very good, it could disintegrate matter). And now to ZPE.
Its funny that 20% of Tesla?s wireless energy system could possibly be just sitting here on this open source site, and there?s been not one comment.
Strange isn?t it?
Cliff,
You might try explaining your drawings a little more .
or better yet show an attempt at a working model ....... builders here get alot more respect than people with theories . Even if the theories are really good .
gary
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I have just received and read a copy of the Stubblefield book by Lochte.
BTW I did not read every word. I am a slow reader, but I skimmed all parts of the book searching for paragraphs that refer to the earlier battery. The focus of the book is on the wireless and radio invention question.
I only found the first page of a brochure about the battery which contains only part of the whole text.
I emailed the author and asked him if he had the rest of the brochure and if he had anything else that has to do with this invention we are replicating.
Here is what is interesting that is in that brochure.
1- he refers to negative and positive elements being the copper and iron. (in that order)
2- He claims that even in water - non acidulated water= not vinegar- there is no polarization that occurs as does in all other batteries.
This is very good news. It means that even if we don't get all the invention perfected, we can actually use it and it will not wear out by becoming polarized. I think this is MAJOR.
3- There is something more, as in more power which happens when it is in the earth that he will describe later. Later is not in the book which is why I emailed the author.
4- He says that an amount less than 1 volt is produced from one coil but they can be put in series to add more power.. Now, this was not written by an ad man this is in NS's own words, as far as anyone can tell. He uses the word we for who is selling the battery so who knows who we means? but I think these 3 (soon to be 4) points are very worthwhile and if there can be more from the rest of the brochure, I sure hope the author will allow us to get the information.
This is good news, Is it not?
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Excellent! I believe this is the same book Maddog was telling me about. Sounds like some great information there. I will try to locate a copy.
Bill
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@ All:
In case you have not seen these, here are two more youtube videos that are somewhat related
to our work here. Just food for thought.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JaLcyFg3BXA&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=JaLcyFg3BXA&feature=related)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hWnMReMXq5Q&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=hWnMReMXq5Q&feature=related)
Bill
PS If anyone spots a semi-related video somewhere that I have missed, please feel free to post the links here. I never thought of running a calculator from any of my cells, or charging my cell phone.
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You don?t think the Electron shuttle looks like Tesla?s wireless energy?
(the missing transmitter)
sad, and hostile.
i deal with electrostatics. i have a 30 cm Wimshurst i built.
does that count as "builder"?
Cliff,
Cliff
Sorry
I didn't see any mention of your Wimshurst machine on the links .
To be honest I didn't see the electron shuttle as tesla's wireless transmition ............but it could be .
I was wondering about if it could be adapted to efficient HHO production
One of my projects on my want to do list is a tesla based electrolizer .
Imagine a beaker of water placed in the center of a fairly low voltage tesla coil secondary .
2 sheets of stainless steel .......one longer than the other can be wound into a coil the smaller one would have a ground wire attched .
there would be a variable resistor on the ground
with the stinless steel coil in the water ..........the longer piece of steel will pick up more voltage from the tesla coil secondary .
you now have a pair of electrodes in water ....... you can control the relative voltage of the electrodes with the resistor on the ground wire . .......and the whole thing is in a stong magnetic field
now ............my question for you
would your electron shuttle add to my idea if I was to do something like put large plates on each side of my stainless coil and shuttle electrons back and forth?
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@bill
I bet your inital cap rod setup woudl run a small digital clock. next to positive acctually.
joe
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@ All:
For some of the newer folks, here is a video of an electrode set up where he claims 1.1 vdc and 1.8 amps. One of his electrodes is like a very long grounding rod used in home electrical applications. Thought you all might like to see it.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/834037/battery_hack_the_planet/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/834037/battery_hack_the_planet/)
@ Joe:
I will have to look around for one to give it a try. I honestly never considered trying anything more than the leds at that time. I think the more variety of things we can power from what little we have would be cool.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
Here is a video of a guy who also wound a secondary. Since you have been doing a lot of this work, I didn't know if you had seen this one or not.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-BmNoLfjIEac/stubblefield_earth_cell_battery_demonstration/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-BmNoLfjIEac/stubblefield_earth_cell_battery_demonstration/)
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
Here is a video of a guy who also wound a secondary. Since you have been doing a lot of this work, I didn't know if you had seen this one or not.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-BmNoLfjIEac/stubblefield_earth_cell_battery_demonstration/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-BmNoLfjIEac/stubblefield_earth_cell_battery_demonstration/)
Bill
@Pirate88179
BIll, I'm sure I am making a mistake by talking on this thread as the last time on a different but related thread some dude that showed a picture of himself 'Fat, pimple faced and discussed his first date "Love" life' chased me off.
Any way I have watched both threads and I see a common error in how one assumes they are getting some place. First current or voltage are irreverent unless considered together. To get to watts the very simple formula of P=EI can be used where P=watts, E or V = volts and I = amps. Now 1amp X 1volt = 1W as does 0.5amp X 2volt = 1W. When you see someone showing 1.2V then connecting the source together and showing for example 1amp, does not mean 1.2 X 1 = 1.2W. The reason being the meter in amp measuring mode should present a very low impedance (resistance) if you will (else it would act like a resistor across a load and dissipate energy. The last video you referred to should have measured E or V and I together, then we could see what was really available.
From the brightness of his LED one can be sure that the so called voltage drops a lot when even the LED is connected, reason is no matter how it is shown the LED is really very dim.
All I am saying is you want to look at V and I together in your work and if you use the very simple approach of P=V X I you will see where many of the reading found by experimenters are about the same when it comes to P. Yes indeed V may be higher, but I is lower, then I is higher and V is lower and the product stays about the same.
Sorry for jumping in here and don't send .... after me.
-
All I am saying is you want to look at V and I together in your work and if you use the very simple approach of P=V X I you will see where many of the reading found by experimenters are about the same when it comes to P. Yes indeed V may be higher, but I is lower, then I is higher and V is lower and the product stays about the same.
RStiffler,
Thank you.
I have been looking at the power equation, but I am not sure I understand about how the meter can't really say.
Are you saying I must set it up as a true circuit in order to honestly see what I am getting?
(It is difficult sitting on the dirt keeping the wires clean etc, but), I will certainly change my test methods if this is what I must do. I may be hitting a wall right now. I am not sure what next to do.
This may be what I need.
Please describe how you would do a circuit if you were trying to measure a Stubblefield battery.
Also, do you have any advice about how to keep the leads of this circuit in good operating condition. I have had problems with wires breaking from over-flexing them in the course of testing.
Thank you,
jeanna
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@ Dr. Stiffler:
First, your input is ALWAYS welcome here on this topic. As you know, I have been following your work on the SEC with great interest. (and great ignorance on my part)
Second, I have to second Jeanna's question about how to properly measure E and I at the same time? I have checked E first usually, then set the meter to mA to measure I. So, with say about .8 E and 80 mA's, P would equal .646?
@ Jeanna:
One thing I do that might help is to make up some jumper leads with alligator clips soldered to the ends and I just clip them on and off my cu and fe wires because as you say, they can get very brittle very quickly. (I found this out myself by snapping one off already) This way, I don need to position the original wires much at all, I just move the jumper wires wherever I want them to be. My jumpers are a pretty heavy gauge so I don't think/hope I am not adding much to the resistance.
Bill
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One thing I do that might help is to make up some jumper leads with alligator clips soldered to the ends and I just clip them on and off my cu and fe wires
heavy gauge so I don't think/hope I am not adding much to the resistance.
Bill
good idea. Thanks, Bill.
What gauge? Is it that big fat hookup wire you used in your early earth battery pics?
thank you,
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Yes, I believe it is 12 or 10 gauge stranded wire. 12 I am pretty sure. Not too big to be a pain, but hopefully big enough to have fairly low resistance.
Bill
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All I am saying is you want to look at V and I together in your work and if you use the very simple approach of P=V X I you will see where many of the reading found by experimenters are about the same when it comes to P. Yes indeed V may be higher, but I is lower, then I is higher and V is lower and the product stays about the same.
RStiffler,
Thank you.
I have been looking at the power equation, but I am not sure I understand about how the meter can't really say.
Are you saying I must set it up as a true circuit in order to honestly see what I am getting?
(It is difficult sitting on the dirt keeping the wires clean etc, but), I will certainly change my test methods if this is what I must do. I may be hitting a wall right now. I am not sure what next to do.
This may be what I need.
Please describe how you would do a circuit if you were trying to measure a Stubblefield battery.
Also, do you have any advice about how to keep the leads of this circuit in good operating condition. I have had problems with wires breaking from over-flexing them in the course of testing.
Thank you,
jeanna
@jeanna
Here is what you are up against, every generator, be it battery, solar panel, alternator, et. al. has a characteristic impedance and for maximum energy transfer the load on the source should be equal to the source.
So what does that mean? Before I get there let me address connecting meters directly across coils. A meter has a built in impedance, this can range fro 2,000 ohms for a simple vane analog meter to 10 million ohms for a DVM or DMM. So when the meter is connected across the source (your coils) with no additional load, other than the load of your meter, lets say you have a DMM with an input impedance of 10 megohm (10 million ohms) and it reads 2 volts, so what is the power at this point in time? Calculate the current first; I=E/R..... I = 2/1E6 = 2E-6amps., P=I^2 X R so (2E-6^2) X 1E7 = 4E-5 watts or 40uW.
Now lets look at it a bit different, lets say you have a DMM with a impedance (resistance) of 0.01 ohm in current mode and you connect it across your coils and read 10mA, so what is the wattage here. Again we can say now what is the voltage; V=I X R so V=1E-2 X 1E-2 = 1E-4 or 100uW or 0.1milli-watt.
So what do you do? Well if you don't know the impedance of your coils it is not simple. But lets say you have a handful of resistors, say 10ohm, 100ohm and 1000ohm. Now you need two connect the resistors one at a time across your coils and with your DMM in current mode in series with the resistor. Measure the current and calculate the power at that point in time. P=I^2 X R
Do this for each of the three resistors and see which one is highest. From this you can find a direction for the coil impedance and match that with a resistor or correct size to allow a true power calculation.
Does this make sense or have I just thrown mud in the water???
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@ Dr. Stiffler:
First, your input is ALWAYS welcome here on this topic. As you know, I have been following your work on the SEC with great interest. (and great ignorance on my part)
Second, I have to second Jeanna's question about how to properly measure E and I at the same time? I have checked E first usually, then set the meter to mA to measure I. So, with say about .8 E and 80 mA's, P would equal .646?
@ Jeanna:
One thing I do that might help is to make up some jumper leads with alligator clips soldered to the ends and I just clip them on and off my cu and fe wires because as you say, they can get very brittle very quickly. (I found this out myself by snapping one off already) This way, I don need to position the original wires much at all, I just move the jumper wires wherever I want them to be. My jumpers are a pretty heavy gauge so I don't think/hope I am not adding much to the resistance.
Bill
@Bill
This will not work.
You need to have a known load and you can measure the voltage across the load and get watts by w=I^2 X R where the I is the current in amps and R is the resistance of the load. Measuring the voltage across an unloaded coil followed by connecting a current meter across that coil is meaningless in result. If you want to connect a meter in current mode across the coil then connect across the current meter another meter to measure the voltage drop across the meter measuring the current. Then calculate....
Unless your meter is the correct impedance for the coil, you are seeing much lower voltage when reading the current and high voltage in voltage mode because the coil is across such a high impedance.
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@ Jean
Unless your meter is the correct impedance for the coil, you are seeing much lower voltage when reading the current and high voltage in voltage mode because the coil is across such a high impedance.
RStiffler
I had not thought of that .
Given that most of the time all we really need to know is how our coils compare with our other coils and similar coils that others here have made ............isn't a simple voltage and current reading good enough ?
gary
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Does this make sense or have I just thrown mud in the water???
Umm, I am not sure.
I will do what you suggest, then I will ask my next question.
Howsthat?
jeanna
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Does this make sense or have I just thrown mud in the water???
So, I have 4 coils in the ground that I check for V , A every day.
They all have a different resonant frequency, for sure.
Are you saying that although I can compare my daily results, I have no absolute result unless I can get the coil resonance in accord with the meter resonance?
And if that is what you are saying, how will I know?
thank you
jeanna
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@ Jean
Unless your meter is the correct impedance for the coil, you are seeing much lower voltage when reading the current and high voltage in voltage mode because the coil is across such a high impedance.
RStiffler
I had not thought of that .
Given that most of the time all we really need to know is how our coils compare with our other coils and similar coils that others here have made ............isn't a simple voltage and current reading good enough ?
gary
No. Not in my mind. How can you say a bottle of milk is good by looking at it? What I mean is a coil of large gauge wire may indeed be able to supply large amounts of current at a lower voltage, where a smaller wire gauge and more turns will be a higher voltage and lower current. But how can you know the capacity without loading it? Does a voltage comparison make then equal in performance, no, not at all.
So if we have a two 2U6 (9volt transistor batteries connected in series ~100mAHr) which would measure ~18V and three 6V golf cart batteries connected in series ~18v and measure only the voltage, would you be able from the voltage alone be able to tell which had the greater capacity?
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You might try a capacitor in series with the meter to see if the output is AC or DC. If you still get a reading through the cap, then it is AC.
.
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@RStiffler
my appoligies for past incidents since then ive purchased acne cream and a new brain. ;)
Great EE lesson! In our ongoing project it will be very advantageous to have the impedance calculations for different sets of the primary and secondary coils.
When I say sets I mean a primary coil consisting of cloth insulated copper and bare iron or steel wrapped in a bifilar fashion around a soft iron bolt as a core that insulated with cloth as well from the wires. The secondary as well call it is a single wire of thin magnet wire enameled wound on a spool placed on the outside of the primary coil body.ÂÂ
This device is self actuated by a relay or suitable device of interposition to make and break the connection between the primary wires of copper and iron.. A mini rotary spark gap or relay should do.  For this device to produce usable ac power at a frequency we desire im assuming were going to have to wind the secondary in a 1/4 wave fashion After finding the speed at which to run the rotary gap or relay. We were tossing around the idea of a small motor with a pot or rehostat in line for speed control and a wooden or plastic disk with metal contacts on it proportioned evenly in 90 degree or 45 degree segments.
Im not any kind of expert when it comes to the math end of this so the moral of my story is this once we figure out the different coil's impedances plot them on a table what would i do to calculate a resonate length for my secondary at a given frequency.. I was going to use one of the tesla coil calculators but i figured id ask a smart rf engineer like yourself first and all the tesla coils were air core not metal so i know theres and additional calculation in there somewhere. Its confusing me because the ends of the primary coils wires the copper and iron remain in the ground or not touching anything, this is said to preserve the character of the electrodes, the other two ends are the ones hooked to the relay or rotary gap plus they produce their own power its not pulsed or powered in any way so im at a loss to draw a real diagram. ÂÂ
looking at the operation of the device ; when shorting the terminals of the electrodes breifly which turns the central bolt into an electromagnet. The pat states a magnetic feild is produced within and outside the primary coil so the bolt on the inside and the secondary on the outside the primary coil. The action of the rapid collapsing of the magnetic field in the central bolt must play some part to the action of this transformer im assuming the feild componet on the outside of the primary coil is waht produces the power in the secondary so im curious to the inner field puropose.
                                      Thanks for taking the time to read this and for your expertise
                                            again sorry about our past encounters :-[
                                                                 Joe
                                                                ÂÂ
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can you explain a little more about how to go about this ?
I have played with the idea a little but havn't got anyhing to work so far .
My goal for the " core" part of the battery is a couple volts and maybe a hundred or so m A
AC would be ideal ....... DC makes things a bit harder .
One of my reasons for trying the Tesla pancake type winding is because if it works it would make a " modular " stubblefield cell .........just build and stack untill you reach the right power level.
I am still undecided about how well it works mostly do to the wiring there are many posabilitys ..... sometimes changing one wire and the voltage across the whole thing drops almost to nothing .gary
Gary: My interest in the Stubblefield battery device is somewhat indirect, being founded primarily in curiosity about those aspects of its design which don't seem to make much sense from the view point of designing a straight forward electrical generating device. The logical explanation would seem to be that these somewhat inexplicable design decisions where made because they are functional in regards to integrating into any system Stubblefield might have developed to tap into telluric electrical currents. The battery probably holds an important position in all this, but it doesn't provide all the answers. So, my principal interest is in following jeanna's and the others' explorations as they try to figure out just what Stubblefield might have been doing in order to create a functional earth phone system among other things. For instance jeanna's idea of looking at the batteries from the view point of wiring for transistors is rather amazing. Nothing may come from it but that is the type of enquiry that eventually produces results.
In regards to possible thoughts on how the single wire capacitance current process might be applied to the Stubblefield battery; it was looking over my original thoughts on that which has caused much of the delay in responding to your question. I think it can be done, but it might be more helpful first to take a look at more basic concepts, such as those wiring questions - my apologies to all if this turns out to be too long and simplistic to be of any assistance.
Stubblefield was, on one hand, very explicit in his patent, and on the other, probably some what deliberately ambiguous. For instance, he is very straight forward in stating that the battery is designed as a voltaic couple that produces electricity through the electrolytic process that occurs between dissimilar metals. He also straight forwardly states that by using bifilar coils instead of plates the electricity can be directed to flow through the coils through a make and break switching device which will turn it into an electromagnetic transformer which will provide useable electrical power through a secondary coil. Nothing wrong there.
However, when he describes the actual method of wiring the circuits things get vague. For instance, when he refers to the coil terminal ends to use for the external circuit to the switching device he simply calls the copper wire 5, and the iron wire 6. Two ends are simply clumped together and referred to as the terminals 10:
"The terminals 10 of the copper and iron wires 5 and 6 are disconnected so as to preserve the character of the wires as the electrode of the voltaic couple; but the other or remaining terminals of the wires are bought into contact through the interposition of any electrical instrument or device with which they may be connected to cause the electric currents generated in the coil-body 4 to flow through such instrument or device."
To understand why this is not only being ambiguous but deliberately misleading it helps to look at the circuit for a regular voltaic battery. Voltaic couples were traditionally constructed of alternations of dissimilar metal disks in an electrolytic solution. Each pair of dissimilar plates is referred to as a cell. Each cell creates a voltage potential based upon the electrical differences between the two metals. Stacks of these cells are in series so the voltage increases as more cells are placed on the stack. The internal electrical circuit consists of the electrolytic activity between the plates. The external electrical circuit consists of a metal conductor connected to the top plate of the stack and running to a connection to the bottom most plate - pretty simple.
Stubblefield's design however is not so simple or straight forward because it is a multi-purpose device. It consists of a bifilar coil with each of the two coils made of dissimilar metals. In this design the bifilar coil is a cell, and each coil is the equivalent of a standard plate. Just like a standard voltaic battery electrolytic action between the dissimilar metals produces an internal electrical circuit. An external circuit can be created by making a connection between the two coils anywhere on their surfaces. So far so good.
Things start getting complicated in regards to the electrical circuit for turning the coils into an electromagnet. The reason for this is because unlike a standard voltaic battery circuit, now exactly where the connections are made becomes critical. As this is a single cell both coils must be utilized, and they must be connected so that the current flows through both coils in the same direction in order to create a unified magnetic field for the electro-magnet. Stubblefield says that in order to accomplish this the two #10 terminals must be connected together.
"By connecting the #5 and #6 ends of the iron and copper wires through a Make and Break device, and directly connecting the #10 iron and copper ends, a closed curcuit is created through which the current can flow, creating the electromagnetic field, and allowing for the powering of a secondary coil, the electrical output of which can be tailored to need by its construction." **(edit: this was a mis-quote and Stubblefield did not say this.)
Here is one of the examples of his somewhat mis-leading descriptions. A quick reading of the patent leaves most with the impression that the 'terminals 10' pair are at one end of the coil wraps, and the 'remaining terminals' are at the other end. This isn't so. There is no logic to the nomenclature Stubblefield used here to designate the coil wire ends. It would have been logical to use something like numbering the copper terminal at the beginning as say, 5a, and its corresponding iron terminal 6a. Then the two at the further end could be identified as 5b and 6b. Using this terminology the 'remaining terminals' used for the primary make-break circuit mentioned could be designated as being 5a and 6b, while the 'terminals 10' pair would be 5b and 6a,.
Looking at the diagram, it can be seen that this wiring scheme is logical from the view point of creating an electro-magnet. It is also just as obvious that it is a disaster from the perspective of the proper operation and maintenance of a voltaic battery. While the primary, 5a-6b, circuit can be held open by the switch, a direct connection between 5b-6a is nothing less than a 'dead short'.
To make a long story short, lets just say that Stubblefield, while calling for a connection between 5b-6a, does not stipulate the type of connection, nor its duration. With that in mind it becomes somewhat logical to imagine that the 5b-6a connection, just like the 5a-6b, is not a direct connection but rather a switched connection. Whether both are made and broken at the same time, or if they alternate is an interesting question. A synchronized operation provides for a pulsed direct current, while an alternating current is produced other wise.
I think that is about the most interesting observation I've had time to make.
In regards to methods for creating multi-cell Stubblefield batteries, I think its possible, but perhaps overly complicated as each connection between the dissimilar coils would seem to have to be through a switching mechanism otherwise a 'dead short' condition will exist in the voltaic circuit.
Using single-line capacitance current methods are a possibility, but again, probably overly complicated. Basically you'd be looking at using capacitors of one type or another at the coil free ends - unless you could design the coils so their inherent internal capacitance would be adequate. Tesla certainly designed such coils but I have no idea of how to go about it.
One last thought: As mentioned above, the electrical connections for a voltaic circuit is different than that for the electro-magnetic setup - any contact between the two dissimilar metals at any point on their surfaces suffices for the voltaic battery effect, and that includes contact between the copper coils and the iron core. The core is in the electrolytic circuit and since it has the largest mass connections with it should produce the largest amperage readings. But the core can not play a role in the electro-magnetic circuit.
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Given that most of the time all we really need to know is how our coils compare with our other coils and similar coils that others here have made ............isn't a simple voltage and current reading good enough ?
gary
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No. Not in my mind. How can you say a bottle of milk is good by looking at it? What I mean is a coil of large gauge wire may indeed be able to supply large amounts of current at a lower voltage, where a smaller wire gauge and more turns will be a higher voltage and lower current. But how can you know the capacity without loading it? Does a voltage comparison make then equal in performance, no, not at all.
So if we have a two 2U6 (9volt transistor batteries connected in series ~100mAHr) which would measure ~18V and three 6V golf cart batteries connected in series ~18v and measure only the voltage, would you be able from the voltage alone be able to tell which had the greater capacity?
RStiffler
I agree that we can't tell much with just voltage alone .............but my question was day to day isn't just measuring voltage AND current good enough? ........
I do agree there is times where more precision is needed .
but I am talking about taking basic measuments off of similar coils
gary
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MThompson
Thanks for taking the time to reply
This kind of discussion is exactly what this thread was intended for .
You bring up alot of good points.
I am going to think about it a while before I ask more questions about it .
gary
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Well , I?m not sure about HHO injection, but it does
Sound like a good idea to me in that it could increase octane and
increase combustion efficiency.
The plates are electron reservoirs.
And where any positron production would occur (if possible).
The radioactive decay drive is a linear homopolar motor
Which uses positron production (along with neutron and neutrino production)
And electron annihilation (along with gamma ray production) to create
A one way path for electrons to go through a linear homopolar motor.
As we know, anything that can be a motor can be a generator
And a generator can be a motor. (build the motor first).
The next step is to look at the radioactive decay drive
in inverse generator mode.
Motor= linear motion, neutron, neutrino and gamma production
generator= inverse motion, positron production,
Neutrino and neutron capture, electron annihilation and, gamma radiation. (if it?s possible).
The next step is to move electrons in one or the other direction
With no return path using a monopolar electrostatic oscillator,
And an electromagnet which switches polarity in relation to
The direction of electron flow. And instead of looking at it as a resonant system
(which just reinforces) to look at the cycles as you would an engine.
This would look like a 2 cycle engine.
Magnetic field interference/reaction is not known at this time.
And this would look like some sort of electron/neutrino/neutron fusion
If possible. and might be adaptable to HHO, I just never looked in that direction.
Take care,
Cliff,
I was wondering about if it could be adapted to efficient HHO production
One of my projects on my want to do list is a tesla based electrolizer .
Imagine a beaker of water placed in the center of a fairly low voltage tesla coil secondary .
2 sheets of stainless steel .......one longer than the other can be wound into a coil the smaller one would have a ground wire attched .
there would be a variable resistor on the ground
with the stinless steel coil in the water ..........the longer piece of steel will pick up more voltage from the tesla coil secondary .
you now have a pair of electrodes in water ....... you can control the relative voltage of the electrodes with the resistor on the ground wire . .......and the whole thing is in a stong magnetic field
now ............my question for you
would your electron shuttle add to my idea if I was to do something like put large plates on each side of my stainless coil and shuttle electrons back and forth?
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The next step is to move electrons in one or the other direction
With no return path using a monopolar electrostatic oscillator,
And an electromagnet which switches polarity in relation to
The direction of electron flow. And instead of looking at it as a resonant system
(which just reinforces) to look at the cycles as you would an engine.
This would look like a 2 cycle engine.
Cliff
I have only a very basic understanding of your ideas
The quote above confuses me .
I see an electron source and an electron sink and an electromagnet iin between
In that configuation I can't see how the current direction would change
I would think that you would need a set of caps between the source and sink and the electromagnet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is the URL for a thread I have have gotten interested in
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3633.0.html
On the first post there is a PDF of progress so far .
If you have time to look at it ...........I was wondering if your electon shutteling might work in place of switching electrodes
It is low voltage and self powering .
I know your ideas are intended for high voltage ......but the basic concepts might still work
.
gary
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Right,
That?s a DC drive (positive energy). (it's gone in different directions,there's a few devices on those pages including the shuttle)
There could be DC generator (free energy/inverse movement),
DC back to back (free energy / no movement/ maybe space distortion),
And AC generator mode (?).
This is at the theoretical research stage, there might be something that I?ve missed.
The basic radioactive design would have to be proven first.
(though the electron shuttle is something of a off shoot, and maybe Tesla's transmitter)
The premise is, ?the magnet can go for the ride in a homopolar?.
No back torque to the magnet, which sounds like the magnetic field is
Not attached to the magnet (though it?s the source) but is part of the
Fabric of space.
the shuttle is in the electromagnet drawing
Added,
Thought you meant the one at the top, the electromagnet one is right.
The electromagnet is ?slaved? to the motor wire so direction of movement would be additive. Hard to say about a return loop on that one at this time.
The (electron) loop has to be broken (someone once called it
?open path I believe ), the radioactive one is easy compared
To the electromagnetic coil version.
And then there?s ZPE,,,,,
Cliff
The next step is to move electrons in one or the other direction
With no return path using a monopolar electrostatic oscillator,
And an electromagnet which switches polarity in relation to
The direction of electron flow. And instead of looking at it as a resonant system
(which just reinforces) to look at the cycles as you would an engine.
This would look like a 2 cycle engine.
Cliff
I have only a very basic understanding of your ideas
The quote above confuses me .
I see an electron source and an electron sink and an electromagnet iin between
In that configuation I can't see how the current direction would change
I would think that you would need a set of caps between the source and sink and the electromagnet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is the URL for a thread I have have gotten interested in
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3633.0.html
On the first post there is a PDF of progress so far .
If you have time to look at it ...........I was wondering if your electon shutteling might work in place of switching electrodes
It is low voltage and self powering .
I know your ideas are intended for high voltage ......but the basic concepts might still work
.
gary
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@ All:
I don't know if you have seen this. Hans posted it a while back. It uses a coil and a small bit of radioactive material to get real electricity. No moving parts to it at all. This might fit in with your ideas in this area.
Bill PS you might have to download and zoom in to read the parts as labeled. I had to stay within the 50k limit.
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Hi all my carbon rod got shattered by a lawn mower today (long story) but what I discovered is that the voltage to the carbon to steel is the same about 1.120 vdc but the ma drop significantly from .250 to .050, it seem the more mass you have (at least when it comes to the carbon rod the more ma you can get). I will have to order some more carbon rods (the more mass the better to see if it indeed will give me more ma).
@ Bill if I am correct did you cut your carbon rod in half, was the ma the same when you cut it compared to when it was the full 18?
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@ kevolts:
No, it was not. I got around that by connecting them both of them together with a jumper wire. In this case, the two halves added up to higher mA's than when one piece, but, I also used two minus rods as well. I agree totally, if we had a carbon rod 8" in diameter and 2 feet long, it would yield very good mA's I believe. Sorry to hear about the lawnmower incident.
Bill
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Yea!!!!!!!!! Strawberrys.More carbon What a concept.!!!!!!!!!!!! L.O.L ANdy
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i don't think that would work, but there's so many configurations i can't say for sure.
though, it has no tertiary coil and his antenna is connected to his ground.
Cliff,
@ All:
I don't know if you have seen this. Hans posted it a while back. It uses a coil and a small bit of radioactive material to get real electricity. No moving parts to it at all. This might fit in with your ideas in this area.
Bill PS you might have to download and zoom in to read the parts as labeled. I had to stay within the 50k limit.
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@ kevolts:
No, it was not. I got around that by connecting them both of them together with a jumper wire. In this case, the two halves added up to higher mA's than when one piece, but, I also used two minus rods as well. I agree totally, if we had a carbon rod 8" in diameter and 2 feet long, it would yield very good mA's I believe. Sorry to hear about the lawnmower incident.
Bill
HHHhhhhhhmmmm
does it have to be a solid rod?
what about simulating a rod with another form of carbon .........?
Maybe a cloth bag full of activated charcoal with a carbon rod stuck in the top for a connection .
Kind of hard to wrap a coil around ....... but it might have some possabilities.
gary
edit
what about a bag made of carbon fiber cloth ?
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Gary:
Jeanna at one time (before she could get a solid carbon rod) I believe used a bag of carbon made up of used water filtration material from her water filter. I think this would have been activated carbon, whatever that means, and it worked as far as I can remember. When she gets back (She is away for a bit) she can explain how it compared to the rods. I don't believe it was as good as the rods when used as an electrode.
I will try to look it up once more but a while back I found a site that sold magnesium in a large form surrounded in a bag of some safe chemical. It is used to protect things made of metal placed underground. (storage tanks, etc) One of the medium priced slugs would produce several amps, yes amps, not mA's when placed in the ground. I will see if I can find it again. It was only about $50.00, which I did not have at the time. I always wondered what one of these large mag slugs would do on the north/south meridian along with a huge mass of carbon?
Bill
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Gary:
Jeanna at one time (before she could get a solid carbon rod) I believe used a bag of carbon made up of used water filtration material from her water filter. I think this would have been activated carbon, whatever that means, and it worked as far as I can remember. When she gets back (She is away for a bit) she can explain how it compared to the rods. I don't believe it was as good as the rods when used as an electrode.
I will try to look it up once more but a while back I found a site that sold magnesium in a large form surrounded in a bag of some safe chemical. It is used to protect things made of metal placed underground. (storage tanks, etc) One of the medium priced slugs would produce several amps, yes amps, not mA's when placed in the ground. I will see if I can find it again. It was only about $50.00, which I did not have at the time. I always wondered what one of these large mag slugs would do on the north/south meridian along with a huge mass of carbon?
Bill
Bill
Several Amps?
If that was used to charge batterys that could be a very practical energy supply.
Activated charcoal goes through some kind of prosess to increase the surface ariea ......... kind of like making stirene plastic into stirofoam ...... the concept is similar ......but the process is different .
gary
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Gary:
I found the original link but it is dead now. But, other similar links say about the same thing. This is common knowledge among those attempting to protect underground tanks and pipes. From what I have read thus far, these anodes last well over a year and put out 1.55 vdc and several amps. It is galvanic to be sure but, I still have not read of the placement and the other electrode material....ie carbon. We can do better. I will post some links when I find some decent ones.
Bill
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Guys Try welding supply for (large zink rods) (there are for pipelines).They have carbon rods also there the zinl rods are for stayic electricity,May be large pipe yards.Andy.
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@ Andy:
Wait until I post the links to sites that offer magnesium anode bags. (Anyone can Google it) These look pretty good to me.
They are talking amps not mA's and say they should last a few years! Vdc is rated at about 1.55 from what I have read but, it's the amps I like. Stay tuned.
Bill
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@ Andy:
Wait until I post the links to sites that offer magnesium anode bags. (Anyone can Google it) These look pretty good to me.
They are talking amps not mA's and say they should last a few years! Vdc is rated at about 1.55 from what I have read but, it's the amps I like. Stay tuned.
Bill
Bill
This URL says a little about how they work
I am thinking that scrap magnesium would work as good as anything
http://www.teecoproducts.com/catalog/N3.htm
Still havn't seen any bags ........but here are some magnesium anodes ..... the chemistry is supposed to me maximised for high current .
they have weights up to 60 pounds .
They don't have prices listed ...... I didn't ask for a price quote
http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/fwst/anodgalv/farw05.htm
gary
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I guess they have the bags too .......but they don't say much about them
http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/fwst/anodgalv/farw03.htm
here is one with prices for bags ......... and charts for how much pipe or tank it can protect
http://www.victormfg.com/bin/f.wk?vm.product.display+PRODUCT=vmanodes
Here is one with a PDF catalog near the bottom
http://www.galvotec.com/magnesium-anodes.htm
The catalog gives some basic information
does 500 to 540 Amps/Hrs./Lb.mean what I think it means?
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@ Gary:
Yes, I believe it does. I wish the old link I had still worked. It had a great description of the anodes, with and without the bags, and prices. The bags hold some sort of mixture that basically draws moisture to the anode. From what I have read, the small units will put out good amps for several years before being consumed. I am interested in trying one with a carbon rod (furthest away on the galvanic chart) and placing them in the ground on north/south line the way we have before. I suspect we can get good power with limited destruction of either cathode or anode.
If you Google "magnesium anode bags" you will get a good explanation on the mixture in the bags. It is nothing harmful from what I can see.
I realize this is not related to our work on the coils but it would be fun to get some good power out of the ground for free anyway.
Bill
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@ All:
Not directly related to our topic but then again, maybe it is. I thought folks would like to see the power of nature. Tesla was correct, energy is everywhere! (Quoted in bold below)
Lightning can happen as a result of a volcanic eruption. As the hot ash rises through the cooler atmosphere, transfer of charge occurs. This excess of electrons within the cloud makes it act like a capacitor, and should the conditions be correct, huge electrical discharges may be observed as bolts of lightning during volcanic eruptions. It seems that the Chaiten volcano's recent activity has created the perfect conditions for such a show, allowing photographers in the region to capture some stunning images.
Bill
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All,magnesium lawn mower frames, and mag rims come to mind.can be bought cheeeeeeep at scrap metal yards,Avoid the middle man.(,90 - 1.00 usd NO! MORE than 1.20 per lb) magnesium can also be used in the stubbelfield coil instead of zink.Or what you call galvenize.Andy
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All,magnesium lawn mower frames, and mag rims come to mind.can be bought cheeeeeeep at scrap metal yards,Avoid the middle man.
As far as I know almost all so called mag wheels are actually aluminum .
gary
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Gary,Old mags some were magnesium and some were - most were and are today aluminum.look up magnesium rims.lOOk on e-bay there are corvett and other rims that are magnesium.Magnesium hasn't been used for wheels in about thirty years. The word Magnesium got shortened to "Mag - Wheels" , but the name stuck , even after the wheels were changed to aluminum.
Andy
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All, Here is some thing I have found. CATHODIC PROTECTION ( CP ) USING MAGNESIUM ( Mg ) ANODE : :
If two different metals are physically or electrically connected and immersed in electrolyte then some amount of current flows between the two metals. This current is supplied by one of the metals by emmiting metal ions to the conductive environment . This is known as galvanic corrosion which destroys base metals rapidly.
Magnesium (Mg) alloy anodes are having greater driving potential than zinc (Zn) or aluminium (Al). So that magnesium anodes are suitable for the protection of pipeline, tanks, condensers, water boxes, heatexchangers, ship hulls, boilers and marine structures from corrosion.
: : MAGNESIUM ALLOY ANODE ( sacrificial Mg cathodic protection anode ) : :
According to the chemical composition Mg anode can be classified as high potential magnesium anode & low potential Mg anodes.
High potential magnesium anode is made from high purity Mg, which produce higher driving volt. So that it can be used for high resistivity soil
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@All, If I did my math correct that would be .157777 amps pre secound per pound @ 550 AMPS PER HOUR PER POUND THIS IS A FANTASTIC FIND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GREAT RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!gypsum is every where available its called sheet rock in my house on my walls. Seasalt will increase the galvanic action.Andy
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Thanks guys, This will go nicely with my 4 inch ground rod solid copper 24 feet long.500 lbs of magnesium =78.885 amps per secound this will give me being conservative approx 96v@78.885 amps.per secound.DC.Andy
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Thanks guys, This will go nicely with my 4 inch ground rod solid copper 24 feet long.500 lbs of magnesium =78.885 amps per secound this will give me being conservative approx 96v@78.885 amps.per secound.DC.Andy
I am guessing that these would make cells that behave similar to the smaller versions of the cells .......... so ........if they are placed far enough apart they should be able to be put in series.
8 to 10 of them should give you between 12 and 15 V ..... it should be possible to run an inverter off of them directly ....... if some deep discharge batterys were added a larger inverter could be used part of the time ..
gary
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correct
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Does a galvanic reaction between magnesium and carbon give off much hydrogen? Or any other gass?
I was thinking that it would take alot of space to make sure your cells don't short out between themselves .
Then I started wondering if it could be done inside . In separate cells .
I guess if the reaction makes little of no hydrogen ....... cheap plastic storage containers could be used .
If the reaction does give off quite a bit of hydrogen .......then we would need to make better boxes .......and we would have to come up with a way to " burn " the hydrogen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
does anyone know of how " clean " this reaction is ...... there would be no wisdom in spending a bunch of money to get off the grid if we were making hazardous waste that would cost a small forutne to get rid of .
gary
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I am wondeing if we can make out own carbon electrodes from charcoal .
I think the critical thing would be the connection to the wire .
If any copper in the wire was exposed to water it would create a mini cell within the cell .......and eat away at the copper until it corroded all the way though . ending the output of the cell .
I was thinking that a piece of carbon fiber cloth maybe 3 or 4 ft long 1 ft wide would do the trick nicely
you would also need some silicone rubber and some plastic wire ties .
The idea would be to squeegy the silicone rubber onto a section of the carbon fiber cloth .
An end of the cloth would be good .........but if it was away from the end then both ends could be used for the connection I am thinking that the cloth clossest to the wire will have the least resistance ..... so 2 ends connected the the lowest resistance is better .
I jjust updated the idea .......... rather than make a big mess with silicone rubber
cut a stip of carbon fiber cloth just big enough to wrap about ALL the exposed copper on the exposed end of your connection wire .....
saturarate this small piece of carbon fiber cloth with silicone rubber and wrap the end of the copper .
make sure that ALL exposed copper is covered .
secure the wet carbon fiber in place with a few wire ties .
place the whole thing on the larger piece of carbon fiber and try to make an even layer of carbon fiber around the original wrapping .
Secure with LOTS of wire ties before the ANY of the silicone rubber dries .
The carbon fiber that is pushed into secure mechanical contact with the copper will conduct well .
So pull those wire ties tight .......and use enough of them to make sure that all the cloth in contact with the wire is under pressure
I have not actually tried this with copper / carbon fiber ..............but I have used it for years for outdoor electrical connections ......havn't had one of them fail yet .
gary
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@Gary, ?what about a box of gouging rods, metal outside carbon center.peal off what metal you dont want.and use that for a contact make a nice bundle of carbon.4 inch in diameter 8-12 inch long?would that work Andy
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duplicate post deleated
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@Gary, ?what about a box of gouging rods, metal outside carbon center.peal off what metal you dont want.and use that for a contact make a nice bundle of carbon.4 inch in diameter 8-12 inch long?would that work Andy
Andy
I think it could work ........what I would worry about is the metal you have left on the rods .......the way I am thinking ....... this would be the connection point of the whole electrode bag ........so any metal would have carbon all around it ...... if not protected from ALL water it would corrode very fast .
gary
Edit
I just thought of the your bundle of rods ........why use a bundle? . why not use one or 2rods for a connection then use charcoal or activated charcoal for the rest of the anode ...... much cheaper
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@All
Cool link wanted to share http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/antigravityworldgrid/ciencia_antigravityworldgrid03.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/antigravityworldgrid/ciencia_antigravityworldgrid03.htm)
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Gary you could plastocoat the metal part.use 1 or a 100 depends on what you have in mind? Andy
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Gary you could plastocoat the metal part.use 1 or a 100 depends on what you have in mind? Andy
WHat I have in mind is make it cheep and simple as possable
I see the electrical connection to the carbon side as a problem .......
I think we should test a few kinds of carbon to find out what is the least expensive for that will work ........for example ...... don't use a manufactured rod if a bag of activated charcoal will do ........ maybe regular charcoal or just plain coal .
charcoal seems the easiest to find for me at least ...... I don't have any idea where I could buy a few pounds of coal .
Now .......if I was going to make dozens of these a load of coal might not be a bad idea .
gary
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@ Gary:
Here is a photo of the connectors I made for my carbon rod electrodes. It is simply stranded copper wire formed into the correct inside diameter circle and tinned all around with solder. They have worked very well for many months now with no sign of any deterioration.
Bill
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@ Gary:
I thought about using coal or charcoal too but the price of a decent sized carbon rod is not all that high. This one is 1" diameter and about 18" long. It cost me about $20.00 including shipping. I have since cut it into two pieces but it still works great. I want to couple these to one of those magnesium electrode bags and see what can be obtained.
I don't think the separate pots inside the house would work anywhere near as well. I did a lot of testing in the beginning and having the correct alignment outside in the ground makes a huge difference. Just being off of the north/south meridian even a few degrees made quite a bit of difference in both the vdc and the mA's.
Bill
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I don't think the separate pots inside the house would work anywhere near as well. I did a lot of testing in the beginning and having the correct alignment outside in the ground makes a huge difference. Just being off of the north/south meridian even a few degrees made quite a bit of difference in both the vdc and the mA's.
Bill
how much is a huge difference ?
I agree that outside would be better .......... IF you have the space .
I don't have any outdoor space .
It seems to me that the annoodes should put out around as much as they would on as corrosion preventors ......there would be no attempt to align them for that application .
gary
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@ Gary:
I understand. I too have very limited outdoor space. I guess, if you kept the bag moist, it should put out the specified power . You are correct, they do not do any alignment when using them on the underground tanks and pipes.
Before I "tweaked" my alignment, I was getting about 1 vdc and 2 mA's. After careful alignment changes, I got up to 2.2 vdc and 9 mA's. A pretty substantial increase. I was hoping the same thing might be true for the electrode and bag approach. To me, the specified power ratings are impressive as it is, but, I always like to try to do better. But, having said that, I would be thrilled with 1 amp.!!!
Bill
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@ Gary:
I understand. I too have very limited outdoor space. I guess, if you kept the bag moist, it should put out the specified power . You are correct, they do not do any alignment when using them on the underground tanks and pipes.
Before I "tweaked" my alignment, I was getting about 1 vdc and 2 mA's. After careful alignment changes, I got up to 2.2 vdc and 9 mA's. A pretty substantial increase. I was hoping the same thing might be true for the electrode and bag approach. To me, the specified power ratings are impressive as it is, but, I always like to try to do better. But, having said that, I would be thrilled with 1 amp.!!!
Bill
Bill
that is a pretty impressive improvememt
It will be interesing to see if the big ones maintain that improvement .
gary
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Hi all,
Just catching up, so I will be quick.
I used charcoal filter granules from a spent brita water filter. It gave me better results than the 5 or 6 carbon rods (tied together) that the ex-welder gave me to try.
The trouble with the granules is that they are not something you can solder. I suppose they would make a nice battery if they were put into to a zinc pipe. Even so, they aren't an electrode. technical problems. I think Bills carbon rod was the best.
mthompson quoted something I have not actually seen in the patent.
I wonder where that came from. The brochure? Is it out there somewhere? Mr. Lochte hasn't sent me his copy yet.
My nice meter broke. I was testing 2 NS coils on my mountain and left it a while. The battery is fine, but the lcd screen wo'nt read. I need to squeeze the case to take a reading. I am wondering if it warped. It was in the hot sun for a couple of hours. (I guess for $10 I can try another one.)
I was trying a new test. I had a 1Kohm resistor on the Fe6 in series with the meter and reading across the Cu5 and the Fe6 with its resistor, but I had also clipped the Fe10 to the corepiece 1. The reading was going up, and I assume to the .75vdc that the Fe6 to the core showed.
When I connected the Cu10 to this corepiece 1 the volts dropped down. I assume to zero. I may not have waited but it would have been close.
So, I keep thinking about those metal globes that are at the top of the batteries and if they are connected to the corepiece 1 , then the 10's wires could be almost connected to the corepiece 1 and just allowed to spark off the globes. Then, they would alternate high and low.
Now, I don't know for sure that they would spark, but if they do, it would be a built-in make and break. I keep looking for this built in make and break. I think it is there somewhere; somehow, I think it is part of how the wires are connected etc.
jeanna
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@jeanna
On that note if there was a built in "mechanism for make and break" why would he implicate a "device of interposition" specifically. It would seem that he tells us a device that preforms the operation is needed. But im curious of it as well. How would you interpret that?
Joe
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@jeanna
On that note if there was a built in "mechanism for make and break" why would he implicate a "device of interposition" specifically. It would seem that he tells us a device that preforms the operation is needed. But im curious of it as well. How would you interpret that?
Joe
well...
The interposed device could be anything that needs about .5-.7vdc. I have always interpreted this as the low woltage dc load. and wondered how one would preserve the "character of the wires as the electrodes of the galvanic couple" in the 10's by having them just stick up.
But then when he talks about the make and break I think of it as I mentioned above, a place where a spark would jump the gap to something making the break for a pulse of the opposite direction to occur. But right there in the primary, because the only part that I think is clear (as mud) is that the secondary is where the real load is.
This is why I can't understand why I get absolutely nothing from my secondary. (but all my secondarys are smaller than they should be to be increasing transformers. and maybe this is where my trouble lies.)
jeanna
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@jeanna
Ahh, I get what your saying . Good thinking and this is probably partially my fault for not elaborating further, as spark gap persay is exactly what you describe but the voltages involved are high voltage depending on the distance of the gap, a rotary spark gap just makes and breaks a connection at a set speed through brushes or contacts not through thin air like the prior. That should make a lot more sense to ya now.
So This is what i was getting at
from the patent
lines 20 -26 page 2 of the text
"the other or remaining terminals of the wires are brought in contact through the interposition of any electrical instrument or device with which they may be connected to cause the electric currents generated in the coil-body 4 to flow through such instrument or device"
and
lines 63 -68 page 2 of the text
"The magnetic field produced by the current traversing the coil-body 4 induces a secondary current in the solenoid or secondary coil 12, when the ordinary make and break of the primary current produced within the coil 4 is made between the terminals of said coil 4. It will therefore be seen that the construction of the battery illustrated in Fig. 4 is practically a self-generating induction-coil"
These two statements together seem to describe something different to me at least , ponder this for a moment and tell me what you think
If there is an electrical device hooked to the primary terminals 5 and 6 speificly a device which interposes/stands between the wires and which the currents flow through.. logically those are oposites stand between\seperate or flow through.. right
now in his next phrase he describes the "ordinary make and break of the primary current produced in coil body 4"
So put that all together and you get
A- A device which terminals 5 and 6 are connected to
B- A device that the currents in the primary coil flow through
C- A device that interposes/stands between the connection of the wires 5 and 6
D- When he says the ordinary make and break that to me defines a condition that is normal for this devices operation so putting all these facets together A-D
We get a device which the primary terminals 5 and 6 connect to which allows the currents to flow through it yet makes and breaks the connection between said terminals of coil body 4 . A relay is the only thing i know of that could do this in the olden times the one thing i may be missing is this.. there may be a second part to the device of interposition that draws power like a small light bulb not sure yet but thats the only other change i could see being interpreted and seems like it could be logical since a relay usually powers a small load.
Tell me what you think
Joe
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So, I keep thinking about those metal globes that are at the top of the batteries and if they are connected to the corepiece 1 , then the 10's wires could be almost connected to the corepiece 1 and just allowed to spark off the globes. Then, they would alternate high and low.
Now, I don't know for sure that they would spark, but if they do, it would be a built-in make and break. I keep looking for this built in make and break. I think it is there somewhere; somehow, I think it is part of how the wires are connected etc.
Jeanna
Welcome back
I hope your trip went well
Sorry to hear your meter died ...
The problem with your spark idea is that sparks require voltage .
The more voltage the farther the spark can jump .
A spark gap is just a set of contacts a specific distance apart
The distance is chosen to be more than the "avrerage "voltage in the circuit can jump ........but less than the high voltage in the circuit can jump .
to get a spark with less than a volt you pretty much have to rub the contacts together .
gary
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Yes, Joe
And Hi Gary.
I will need to be shown how to make this relay. I gave up having you, joe come up with an actual design a while ago. You proposed this idea which seemed great. You seemed to understand what it was.
I had to learn what all the elements were, and I have been doing that. There has never been an actual even failed!!! attempt. From anybody. (not just you) Maybe you have tried 30 things. but if you did I never saw any of them.
So, I am still where we were the day (was it in January?) when you first described the relay.
Not really, because I have asked about sparks and looked a lot. But if you want to make an outside device, go for it. (I certainly hope I am not standing in your way. Because I don't have any idea how to do what I think you want to do.)
The fact that I think NS had it worked out so that the sparks would spark when he wanted them to or at least that he could maneuver their timing is what I am going on, but for anyone else, that is irrelevant.
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Gary,
The meter is not so bad. It is the truck battery. I left the parking lights on and didn't go into the truck for 10 days. It may be gone. I've had a charger on it for most of the day and it is at 8% charge. aargh!
jeanna
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@Jeanna
Jeez im sorry you missed my post about my relay that i built with the diagram in the other thread. It is just the simple electromagnetic relay design with a little springy metal arm as hans once described also as for me not taking pics, it costs each time i do with the phone and i didnt feel like buying the little adapter for my card. But regardless i was asking your opinion in an effort to come to a consensus while moving forward. In no way was i saying your views were wrong i was just trying to pick apart the key phrases that are being addressed in the patent and i wanted your opinion on my findings.
Joe
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It is just the simple electromagnetic relay design with a little springy metal arm as hans once described
Joe, I think it is hard to understand when someone hasn't a clue how to put a thing together that a diagram is not sufficient.
It is like handing someone a loom and a picture of the finished cloth and expecting them to know how to put the warp on. They can look up the word warp and see the shuttles and learn what heddles mean, but it just won't get them there without more detail. How-to detail. One step at a time detail. I bought a relay then a few more becausethey were cheap and I figured someone was going to do one of these and would describe it.( It didn't happen .)
i was just trying to pick apart the key phrases that are being addressed in the patent and i wanted your opinion on my findings.
It is quite possible that he had something extra to make this work.
My opinion about the "practically" part is that if you add water it becomes a self generating (either one) electromagnet or induction coil. And the details of the length of coil thickness of wire and other details that we haven't worked out yet are how to make it work well.
I say "go for it". "try it." see what doesn't work. (I have made 14 coils. Most of them do not work. )
Then maybe you or maybe someone else will make one that does work.
[I think ResinRat2's signature about says it all. ]
jeanna
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Yaknow Joe,
When you told me of the joule thief I made one
and when you told me of the flash circuit I got a camera and took it apart. I even put some extra secondaries on one of my coils (the one that is broken but was my favorite cuz it gave such strong effects)
If you made a suggestion of a relay circuit where someone gives a "how to" description you KNOW, I'm gonna try it,
so that would help. If you know of such a description, that is.
It might even get me to mess around with relays on the top of one or two of my coils! ;)
jeanna
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The problem with your spark idea is that sparks require voltage .
The more voltage the farther the spark can jump .
to get a spark with less than a volt you pretty much have to rub the contacts together .
Gary,
Before you joined this thread, I made 2 or 3 Stubblefield type coils that were non galvanic. I had Ideas about investigating what happens in the coil once a charge is going through it.
I used a 2.5 volt battery pack (2 AAA usually going flat) and watched what happened to a galvanometer when I touched the battery leads to the various places. etc.
There were some interesting results. One was that the polarity would get full- or something in the NS battery. I mean if I hit the leads the same way with the same polarity of the battery the compass would swing a certain way from 3 to 5 times.
Then the effect stopped.
I would have to REVERSE the battery leads. The compass as galvanometer would swing again, but in the other direction this time for another 3-5 times and stop until I reversed the polarity again.
I always thought this was significant.
I still do which is why I am going into detail right now.
BUT what I want to say about sparks is that when I first reversed the polarity, most of the time I could actually SEE a spark. It was long enough to see with a 2.5 volt battery pack.
So, I am not so sure that we don't have enough voltage to make a useable spark. The thing is, it gets hard to control, as you indicated, when they need to be so close that you cannot see them.
I have a tiny spark gap on one of my coils now, but I cannot see a spark if there is one, ......
So, I don't know what is happening since I cannot say there is a spark...
jeanna
You were there as one-
here is the beginning of my reports if you want to review those results
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.1520.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.1520.html)
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@All, On Teslas(Utilation of Radiation Circuit) he used a timer, a make break circuit And a capacitor.On the energy sucking antenna (a coil of wire,a spark plug a stepup transformer (car coil) And a capacitor .When a make break is introduced in a circuit it becomes ac.Then the frequency goes all over the place.if you have a spark gap, you have amperage this can work with a with a variac also.Each one have different resistance.These were some of my scattered thoughts if you can use any of them.Help your self. Andy
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@ Jeanna and all:
Welcome back!
I hope I am not repeating myself which is entirely possibly. On one of the topics here, I can't recall which at this time, Stefan was describing a spark gap to use with 1 vdc made from two sharpened graphite rods (pencil points) placed about .001" apart or so. You have to make it adjustable to get the correct gap. (One that works is the correct gap) Someone on that topic made one and posted a picture. I will try to hunt it up soon.
Having said that, I too am not a fan of the spark gap from what I have read. Much better to have a controllable make/break, especially one that easily allows variable frequency changes. We don't really know that Stubblefield did not do that. I don't think he was making enough power to operate what would have passed for a relay in those days. We all now have relays in our cars operating on 12 volts, and probably would work on less. There are probably efficient relays out there designed to work in our ranges. (Hopefully)
I still like Joe's idea of the separate tiny motor powered by a different source, to turn a make/break system. If I had a few more bucks, I would be playing with that as we speak.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Please hunt that down. I sort of remember it but...
The question of what frequency to impose on a coil arises when it is not the one that comes naturally from the coil's own turns.
If the galvanic reaction causes an electro magnetic effect that could cause a spark to discharge It would do it at the coil's natural frequency, I should think. And that would be the most effective frequency, the resonant one.
I don't know this, it just seems right to me. I am hunting more for ways to tell what I have. I guess that is the reason I like Barry's coil gun site with the java applet with the sliders - I can match the curve to mine and look at it better.
I am definitely watching the relay idea. As much to learn how to install a relay as anything else.
Every time I find myself in a hardware store I look for screw type devices that would hold a spark gap like the old ones. Maybe I should go to an automotive store. mmm
I look forward to seeing a spark motor. I still haven't got my copper propellor on the CD motor to work on a NS coil. not yet.
jeanna
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i made a second stubblefield coil, the first one failed and was taken apart. this one is wrapped around a 3/8 bolt X 6 in long bolt. it has a plastic cap and end piece. the wires are insulated from the bolt with a rubber hose. it has 10 coil pair per row and 6 levels. totaling about 23 feet of 18 gauge wire. the copper wire is insulated from the iron wire. no secondary at this time
testing with the coil just wet i get .45 vdc and 200 ma. i am very happy with those numbers. i will plant it sometime soon as it is now.
when i was testing this coil i tried something else. i took my APM circuit and added a diode to the output. so the volts would stay up longer. and then took the other side of the diode and connected it the 5 on the stub coil. and checked voltages quickly as the voltage was dropping. i measured the 5 and 6 plus the bolt. then the 10's i used the APM circuit as the ground. i read almost the same voltage on all connections and that was about 53 volts and dropping.
what i am getting at is this tested just like a car coil. but what i didn't get was the bolt also having a voltage present. it is totally insulated from the wires. BTW the ma's jumped up to 800 ma's on the 5 and 6. no other connections were checked for ma's just needed more time with a higher voltage. the APM could not have added the ma's because it's not in that circuit. but the circuit was supplying that voltage level.
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mthompson quoted something I have not actually seen in the patent.
I wonder where that came from. The brochure? Is it out there somewhere?
My apologies to all; jeanna, you are absolutely correct, the following was not a quote from Stubblefield. This is actually a reference note to myself which was preceded by quotes from Stubblefield's battery patent. Thanks for catching it. While I still think it is a good description of the possible circuitry within the Stubblefield battery, he most definitely did not make this statement and I'm pretty embarrassed I claimed he did. mea culpa..
"By connecting the #5 and #6 ends of the iron and copper wires through a Make and Break device, and directly connecting the #10 iron and copper ends, a closed curcuit is created through which the current can flow, creating the electromagnetic field, and allowing for the powering of a secondary coil, the electrical output of which can be tailored to need by its construction."
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@ Pardon:
800 mA's???? Wow, that is a record for us. I have to ask...are you sure? (sorry) That is almost 1 amp which is fantastic. Great work. Can you post pictures for us? This would be good to see before you "plant" it in the ground. This gives me hope. Excellent.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
I finally found it. It was in the topic "AA battery to light led for long-long time."
Quote from Amigo's post:
"Here's my attempt at creating a miniature spark gap using two graphite pencil rods. I used a hair (thankfully I still have some left on my head Smiley ) as a spacer between the electrodes, and wrapped tinned 34 AWG wire around the other ends, then hot glued them to a small piece of plexiglass.
So now what do I do with it because from what Marco said we should either pulse the coil or use the spark gap but not both?"
Bill
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While I still think it is a good description of the possible circuitry within the Stubblefield battery,
"By connecting the #5 and #6 ends of the iron and copper wires through a Make and Break device, and directly connecting the #10 iron and copper ends, a closed curcuit is created through which the current can flow, creating the electromagnetic field, and allowing for the powering of a secondary coil, the electrical output of which can be tailored to need by its construction."
mthompson,
Darn! I thought you had his brochure.
I agree this looks like a good possibility for the connections etc.
What I keep my eye on is to be ??sure?? not to create a one way current. This device will not polarize according to Mr. Stubblefield. (That IS in the brochure - on the front page.) And I want to keep that. It makes it a permanent battery. Now to hook it up his way...
I am still waiting for R. Lochte (the author of the book) to locate the brochure and email it to me. I am expecting at least one gem. He didn't think NS used these to power his later inventions, and it looked to him that everything in the brochure was already in the patent. I hope there is more.
@Bill,
Thank you for finding amigo's pic. that is very clear, and very tiny.
I used a piece of paper to make a separator on the one I tried but I put it on tape. And the tape flexed. Who knows what was going on. In fact the tape is still there, but flexed, the terminals are too far apart.
The piece of acrylic looks stable. I wonder if it can be made adjustable. Will it be baby's hair or adult hair width. ;D
I will go look at that topic now,
Thank you,
jeanna
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I'm curious, why not just use a normally closed reed switch positioned over the iron bolt? The bolt will become magnetic which will open the circuit and then it will immediately close due to no magnetic field and the process stars over again. Seems the resonance of the coil will determine the speed and thus the secondary ac frequency.
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@Storre,
Thank you for this suggestion.
I don't know how to connect this. would you please help me with this?
I think I bought a few from a supply house, though I am not sure. They look like old time film with sprocket holes on the side. Left me scratching my head.
Thank you,
jeanna
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If it's not clear I can draw it but lets see if I can explain it. From the patent NS said that 2 of the wires from the primary, when you connect them, start the voltage in the primary. This I assume would then create an electromagnet in the bolt. So take those 2 wires that he says to connect (make and break) and put one on one lead of the reed switch and the other wire on the other end of the reed switch. The reed switch would have to be a normally closed type so that when it was connected it would immediately cause the magnetic field to start in the bolt which would then open the reed switch which would turn off the magnetic field and then the reed switch would close (it's normal state) and repeat the cycle over and over. The speed would probably be determined by the amount of windings on the primary which would effect the speed the magnetic field collapses.
The reed switch probably should be as close as possible to the bolt since I guess it's a week magnetic field. These reed switches are very sensitive so should be able to be activated with very little magnetic field.
If it's not clear enough I can draw it.
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Thanks,
I will get the switches.
The thing I want to say is that if you actually do not connect the primary wires you get the voltage. It comes from the moistening of the cloth and the ensuing galvanic reaction creates the voltage. As soon as you connect the other terminals, the ones that have the meter on them will read zero.
He (NS) goes on to say that when the leads 5 &6 are connected, they will produce the magnet as long as the coil body 4 is moist. It becomes a self inducing electromagnet. So, the electromagnet part happens when the voltage reading has gone to zero. I assume that this is the electrolysis part, the part where the iron and copper get replated onto the wires.
So, normally open would give the current/voltage and when closed will close off the current or voltage and establish the magnetism.
Is this right?
My confusion comes about with his sentence that it becomes a self generating electromagnet when the terminals 5.6 are connected because of the current going through them. Since, by connecting 5.6 the current stops.
I will look for those switches. I don't remember seeing leads.
Thank you
jeanna
I see the ends are leads on 2 of them
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@Jeanna,
Maybe you are getting a voltage buy using a test meter but isn't that creating a closed circuit in itself which is why you are seeing the voltage? I think the secret to this make and break action is talked about in 75-85 in his patent.
NS says in his patent:
IT WILL BE OBVIOUS THAT BY REASON OF THE MAGNETIC INDUCTIVE PROPERTIES OF THE COIL-BODY 4 THE CORE-PIECE 1 WILL NECESSARILY BE MAGETIZED WHILE A CURRENT IS GOING THROUGH THE BODY 4, SO THAT THE BATTERY MAY BE USED AS A SELF-GENERATING ELECTROMAGNET, IS FO DESIRED, IT BEING OBSERVED THAT TO SECURE THIS RESULT IS SIMPLY REQUIRED CONNECTING THE EXTENDED TERMINALS OF THE WIRES 5 AND 6 TOGETHER?
So the normally closed reed switch should be connected to terminals 5 and 6!
The key to this primary is that it's a SELF generating electromagnet and we can use the electromagnet to activate the reed switch thus that opens the reed switch (circuit) which stops the electromagnet which then causes the reed switch to close which then repeats the process over and over. I'm guessing the frequency of this will be relative to the amount of windings on the primary.
I would not be so concerned with the meter reading because where you put the meter (what leads are you connecting it to) might cause the circuit to start up. I think either watching the action of the reed switch or putting a secondary winding around the primary and test from the secondary so you are isolated from the primary.
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If it's not clear I can draw it but lets see if I can explain it. From the patent NS said that 2 of the wires from the primary, when you connect them, start the voltage in the primary. This I assume would then create an electromagnet in the bolt. So take those 2 wires that he says to connect (make and break) and put one on one lead of the reed switch and the other wire on the other end of the reed switch. The reed switch would have to be a normally closed type so that when it was connected it would immediately cause the magnetic field to start in the bolt which would then open the reed switch which would turn off the magnetic field and then the reed switch would close (it's normal state) and repeat the cycle over and over. The speed would probably be determined by the amount of windings on the primary which would effect the speed the magnetic field collapses.
The reed switch probably should be as close as possible to the bolt since I guess it's a week magnetic field. These reed switches are very sensitive so should be able to be activated with very little magnetic field.
If it's not clear enough I can draw it.
I am not sure that the coils that we have made create enough magnetic field to affect a reed switch
gary
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@ Gary:
They should have enough field to attract a thin one.
Bill
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@Gary
Yes that is a big IF in my head also, especially since I haven't even started to make one of these but in his patent he clearly calls it a self generating electromagnet when 5 and 6 are connected. When I read the patent that is the part that lights up for me! It seems the key to the device.
Well hopefully someone can test these with a very sensitive normally closed reed switch, placing it as close as possible to the top of the bolt or wherever the field would be the strongest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_switch
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Storre,
reply to part one:
IT WILL BE OBVIOUS THAT BY REASON OF THE MAGNETIC INDUCTIVE PROPERTIES OF THE COIL-BODY 4 THE CORE-PIECE 1 WILL NECESSARILY BE MAGETIZED WHILE A CURRENT IS GOING THROUGH THE BODY 4, SO THAT THE BATTERY MAY BE USED AS A SELF-GENERATING ELECTROMAGNET, IS FO DESIRED, IT BEING OBSERVED THAT TO SECURE THIS RESULT IS SIMPLY REQUIRED CONNECTING THE EXTENDED TERMINALS OF THE WIRES 5 AND 6 TOGETHER?
So the normally closed reed switch should be connected to terminals 5 and 6!
It is just that if you connect the 5,6 while the meter is clipped to the 10's the thing drops to zero.
so, this it the most important thing to clear up.
I am sure when you make one you will see.
I have 2 reed switches that are N.O. and the 3rd doesn't say.
They are all very tiny. I didn;t see the leads because they were hidden in a tape container .
anyway.
jeanna
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Hi Jeanna!
The two #10 leads should be left open to preserve the character of the wires as electrodes of the voltaic couple. If you connect them to any load or meter it will cause the voltage to go to zero.
Make sure you use only N.C. reed switches. N.O. will not work at all.
steve
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I see you posted. I am gonna shoot this through anyway
I'm guessing the frequency of this will be relative to the amount of windings on the primary.
I am sooo glad you see it this way. I think I was the only one so far, unless I missunderstood someone (which is very possible)
I would not be so concerned with the meter reading because where you put the meter (what leads are you connecting it to) might cause the circuit to start up. I think either watching the action of the reed switch or putting a secondary winding around the primary and test from the secondary so you are isolated from the primary.
After you wind the primary you have 4 wires sticking up. The ends from where you started are called terminals 10. One is cu one is fe. The ending of the wires are called terminals 5(copper) and 6(iron) . So 2 wires 4 ends.
He says to leave the 10's open so that is where I try to hook my meter leads. (although there has never been a difference in voltage, cuz they are the same wire.)
I have used a cap to collect the voltage but not add anything. Sometimes there is much less in the cap than in the meter, so you are right that the meter may start something up.
So, with the meter clipped to the terminals called 10 - one cu one fe - I can read some voltage. Now, if I clip the other terminals together, the voltage drops to zero. and stays there. done no more voltage between the wires.
NOW there is probably still voltage somewhere else, like at the core. so it isn't shut down completely. Or maybe it is sposed to be.Tthe core piece is soft iron and meant to "hold" the magnetism for only a moment. If what I used is not soft enough the magnetism will linger too long to flip polarities.
I do think this is where to look. Please build one. I am tired of making them but that is because I made 14. Little ones using $4 copper wire. They are not hard to make.
The secondary is another thing. I have only one coil that shows voltage at the secondary. well readable voltage. All the other secondarys show nothing. zero.
jeanna
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If you connect them to any load or meter it will cause the voltage to go to zero.
Make sure you use only N.C. reed switches. N.O. will not work at all.
steve
Steve,
well no, if I connect them to the meter they read a voltage. same voltage as if I read the 5 and 6. It is when the OTHER 2 are connected, that the voltage drops. This is exactly the reason I tried to see what was there by placing a cap across the 5,6 and walking away for a while.
AND the reason I think you are right about the reed switch.
8)
jeanna
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The 2 10s are the same wire only if 5 and 6 are connected and the reed switch is closed. Still I think you have to leave the 2 10s open and if you connect a meter to the 2 10s then they are NOT open anymore since the meter will cause them to be a closed circuit.
I think we only need enough voltage to cause the N.C. reed switch to open and if that happens then it will repeat the cycle over and over. This low voltage is pretty useless unless we use it to induct the secondary at a much higher voltage. Similar to trying to clean your driveway with 1 liter per minute of water coming out of a big hose or using the same volume of water but send it through a much smaller hose or hose end. I think NS talked about this also. LV is pretty useless by itself but since we can induct a larger coil wound around it we can use the same volume of electrons under higher pressure and do more work with the same amount of water (i mean electrons) :-)
I don't see the core as holding the magnetism but acting more like a flywheel for the electron vortex. It keeps the flow more stable and acts as a type of battery.
If you want to monitor your results using this reed switch design then the only way is to measure the ac voltage of the secondary. You can't mess with the primary anymore than what he describes or you will divorce the voltaic couple :)
And to answer your other post. Yes if you will get a voltage from 10 and 10 just as you get from 5 and 6 but that is because of the different metals. He is only using the different metals to create enough voltage to create the electromagnet and then using the electromagnet energy to disconnect 5 and 6 and start the cycle over and over. That is why it ends up being an ac coil. I think we have to forget about measuring the voltage in the primary because doing so messes up the primaries purpose as a self energizing electromagnet.
BTW, I recall reading earlier that you are a musician(?) or am I confusing you with someone else? Me too and it's good to see more musicians in this other related field of energy :-)
Oh and I think you will only see a voltage in the secondary if you have the pumping action going on in the primary by making and breaking leads 5 and 6 very quickly with the reed switch. BTW, does the patent say how many windings the secondary has in relation to the primary? 1 to 10? 1 to 100?
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Oh and I think you will only see a voltage in the secondary if you have the pumping action going on in the primary by making and breaking leads 5 and 6 very quickly with the reed switch. BTW, does the patent say how many windings the secondary has in relation to the primary? 1 to 10? 1 to 100?
The guy from WIT said a couple thousand wraps
He was also one of the people that suggested large diamater wire .
This was on a video ,,.......don't remember which one .
I am pretty sure the patent doesn't say anything about it .
gary
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I don't see the core as holding the magnetism but acting more like a flywheel for the electron vortex. It keeps the flow more stable and acts as a type of battery.
Yes
but others have mentioned that if it is not "soft" then it will become magnetized and ruin the effect. It must be soft iron. Hans told us that antennas were made of soft iron. Ian told me that the iron pipe I used is soft iron.
If you want to monitor your results using this reed switch design then the only way is to measure the ac voltage of the secondary.
maybe it is just as well my meter broke.
But my meters only show ac volts not mvolts. (any of them)
I think we have to forget about measuring the voltage in the primary because doing so messes up the primaries purpose as a self energizing electromagnet.
this is pretty much working in the dark. It will be OK if it works really well at first, but how do I know what is going on? like if I even have the reed switch on OK? There is no test for that now.
I just read the eskimo Quinn say don't hold onto the edge of the pool .real self confidence is when you don't even see the land and you are fine.
it's good to see more musicians in this other related field of energy :-)
I agree. Musicians are always a very creative population. ;) Musicians make holograms in the brain really well. Musicians are good 4 and 5 dimensional thinkers.
Oh and I think you will only see a voltage in the secondary if you have the pumping action going on in the primary by making and breaking leads 5 and 6 very quickly with the reed switch.
Is there a size consideration to reed switches? I bought 3 very small ones. Does the size effect the quickness of response? What are the implications of size? This is all one question. :D
BTW, does the patent say how many windings the secondary has in relation to the primary? 1 to 10? 1 to 100?
No, just a secondary made in the ordinary way.
thank you
jeanna
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Is there a size consideration to reed switches? I bought 3 very small ones. Does the size effect the quickness of response? What are the implications of size? This is all one question. :D
Jeanna
if it works well it is the right one .
If there is to much current the contacts will usuallly weld themselves closed
gary
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@ Gary:
I wish we had too much current..... ha ha
Bill
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Yes I think NS mentions soft iron also but I don't think it needs to be any more special than that. He recommends using an iron bolt.
I suppose the secondary will produce in the hundreds of volts with few milliamps but that all depends on the amount of windings of the primary and secondary.
I think what you could do to check the effectiveness of the primary is to put a very small light in line with the reed switch. If the light stays on then the switch is not opening with the magnetic field so maybe need to be closer or may need to make more winds are use larger wire. When it works the light should flash but I'm not sure if it will be noticeable if it's flashing more than 60hz unless you recorded it with a high speed camera ;-) Go ESKIMO :-)
Yes I love to work in my head. Saves so much re-engineering time :-)
I have a box of reed switches I got as samples and I will start testing them. I'm not sure what NS used but I'm pretty sure it was a crude type of reed switch or relay so anything we have these days should be good enough.
I'm going to listen to the thrapp interview again because he gives some details that are not in the patent.
What type of wire sizes have been tried here? What has been an easy way to insulate one of the wires? I'm thinking of using bandage tape but maybe there is something easier. I heard of something they use in speaker insulation that might work.
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put a very small light in line with the reed switch. If the light stays on
What type of wire sizes have been tried here? What has been an easy way to insulate one of the wires? I'm thinking of using bandage tape but maybe there is something easier. I heard of something they use in speaker insulation that might work.
Not bandage tape. At least not what I bought. The glue keeps too much water out. I got very low galvanic action with it. Too bad. It was easy.
What kind of light works on .5vdc?
I just had a talk with an EE from NZ while he was replacing my battery. We talked about this battery. He never built one of these but he said silk then he said or cotton. I said wow. another mention of silk? There is an audio store in Aussie that stated the wire they had (but no longer sell) for speakers that was wound in silk was the one they preferred. They said less noise. I wonder if that would translate.
Silk is easy because it is sooo thin and strong. I gave Gary a link a while back. Thaisilk I think.
Otherwise thin cotton. the thinner the easier. It doesn't need to do anything but keep the 2 wires moist and apart to allow the electrons to penetrate and do their mysterious dance.
What is this speaker wire covering that you mentioned?
I noticed a couple of weeks ago that the copper with its cloth is equal in girth to that of the of the iron wire. That is according to the drawing NS uses.
I have used 18 and 24 paired up usually to match each other.
Gary used a really thick wire. (Gary must have really strong fingers!!)
thank you,
jeanna
wow cool day. battery replaced, reed switches out, another party ready to make a NS battery!
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If there is to much current the contacts will usuallly weld themselves closed
gary
I see. So it is like choosing the 1/4 watt or the 1/2 watt resistor based on current.
thank you,
jeanna
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Don't forget the cotton cord method. Very easy to wind...well...easier than wrapping the copper wire. Seems to work well...so far. Also, standard T-shirt cotton was used on the core and in between layers. The cotton tubing used for speaker wire would be the best but, the ones I saw were expensive. We will find a better, easier way if we keep looking at the problem.
Bill
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Don't forget the cotton cord method. Very easy to wind...well...easier than wrapping the copper wire. Seems to work well...so far. Also, standard T-shirt cotton was used on the core and in between layers. The cotton tubing used for speaker wire would be the best but, the ones I saw were expensive. We will find a better, easier way if we keep looking at the problem.
Bill
But sooo thick.
You always get good primary readings but he said it needed to be closely wound and the picture shows it so much closer than a string would allow.
I like Chad's method but I won't be using it anymore, I cannot get the wires close enough.
Bill,
None of us has done your first suggestion which is to sew a tube around the copper wire. I may try that next. I think that is the best idea so far. It seems the hardest but maybe it isn't.
jeanna
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wow
This afternoon before all the battery replacement activity I put my coil that has fatter iron wire wrapped on a 1/4 inch thick bolt into some water inside. I stuck the old meter leads on it. read it and forgot about it.
I just walked into the kitchen and flipped the switch on and I watched as the voltage oscillated its way up from 0.245vdc to 0.320vdc. I went up 30 mv and down 25 then up 30 again. It is now oscillating between 0.310 and 0.280 or so. It changes value 3 or 4 times a second, probably every new sample is different.
Does anybody else have a coil that keeps oscillating just the primary in water?
This is looking good to me.
This is one that has 18 gauge iron wire and 24 gauge copper wire. One of my new experiments. (based on that observation of the pic in the patent where the copper was thinner wire than the iron)
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Well, you are right about the spacing. The cord I used is about the same diameter as the wires themselves. Before I even thought about sewing a cover for those small wires, I think I would try to find out who makes shoelace material and try to buy a roll from them. I know the speaker wire tubes are a lot of money but possibly, the shoelace material, which is cotton pressed flat, but it is really a tube, might be a lot more cost-effective. I can't think of anything else at the moment that might work. I once was going to use thin cotton thread wrapped around one of the wires but then I realized that I would still probably be winding the thread onto the wires even now. That would be thin but, damn, a nightmare to do.
I still want to perform a small scale experiment using one insulated wire on a coil. This should not work but, we should also not get ANY volts from a newly assembled dry coil either and yet we do. I will probably use insulated copper wire as it is readily available just to see. Even if it only worked like 60%, it would be so much easier, and cheaper, to wind much larger coils to more than make up the difference. Why didn't Stubblefield do this you might ask?
Well 1. it might not work.
2. The insulated wire available in those days was insulated with cotton. This may be the only reason.
Bill
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Silk is easy because it is sooo thin and strong. I gave Gary a link a while back. Thaisilk I think.
http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1_2
I didn't end up getting any silk
I checked my bank account and decided eating was more imporatant than silk .
gary
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2. The insulated wire available in those days was insulated with cotton.
Bill, don't you remember Hans told me he took apart a lot of antique wires in his research on Keely and he said mostly they used silk??? It keeps coming up. He really said silk to me. I never asked him how he knew it was silk and if he knew the technique to tell them apart. I just assumed he knew what he said. Maybe he didn't.??
I still want to perform a small scale experiment using one insulated wire on a coil
Please describe. wet, dry, copper, iron? etc.
Maybe nylon langerie strap string would work. Nylon is a good absorber. not like cotton, but it absorbs plenty of water. I used to know a company that made shoelace. You bought 1,000 yards but it only cost about $15. I bet it wouldn't be too hard to find a jobber somewhere.
I wonder if it would be easier to thread many feet of copper into a tube or wrap and stitch a 40 inch long strip of thin cloth around the wire. I am not sure the tube would be much easier . You'd have to load the whole wire first if you were going to use the tube.
thank you,
jeanna
Thanks for the link, Gary
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BTW
That coil stopped oscillating after about an hour. It now says .495vdc and steady.
I am wondering if this is part of the moist thing. If the coil is only moist, maybe the coil is more likely to have an unstable current which would make the swing back and forth easier to start.
I don't know. It doesn't seem like a way to design something. just a thought.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
As I said, I will probably use insulated copper wire as it is more readily available and cheap. as for cotton insulation, my grandfather owned an electric supply business in CA for many years dating back to before WWII. He actually fought in WWI and had worked with electricity all of his life. All of the old wire he showed me from those early days was cotton insulated. This is not as early as Stubblefield, but not too long after either. Some even used paper. Probably not a good dielectric on a damp day. I am not saying they didn't use silk, I just have no knowledge of this. I am sure Hans knows silk when he see it so possibly both were used, or silk first, then cotton? I will try to google to see.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
Below quoted from Wiki: (Underline emphasis added by me)
Knob and tube wiring
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Knob and tube wiring in a 1930 home.
Knob and tube wiring in a 1930 home.
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Knob and tube wiring
Knob and tube wiring (sometimes abbreviated K&T) was an early standardized method of electrical wiring in buildings, in common use in North America from about 1880 to the 1930s.[1] It consisted of single insulated copper conductors run within wall or ceiling cavities, passing through joist and stud drill-holes via protective porcelain insulating tubes, and supported along their length on nailed-down porcelain knob insulators. Where conductors entered a wiring device such as a lamp or switch, they were protected by flexible cloth insulating sleeving. The first insulation was asphalt-saturated cotton cloth, then rubber became common. Wire splices in such installations were twisted for good mechanical strength, then soldered and wrapped with friction tape (asphalt saturated cloth), or made inside metal junction boxes.
Knob and tube wiring was displaced from interior wiring systems because of the high cost of installation compared with use of power cables, which combined both power conductors of a circuit in one run (and which later included grounding conductors).
Exposed wiring supported by porcelain knobs is still permitted by wiring codes, although it is unusual in new installations.
1880'-1930's. This sounds like our time period.
Bill
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Also this guy talks of building/restoring an old 1920's radio and winding the coils with cotton insulated wire and also mentions the wire spacing problems encountered.
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~jimlowe/Browning%20Drake.htm (http://www.hotkey.net.au/~jimlowe/Browning%20Drake.htm)
Looks like he did a nice job there.
Bill
Also, here is a link to some reasonable cotton covered wire by the original manufactures. $60/100 feet, wire included and installed!!! This is used to wind guitar pick-up coils on vintage guitars like the old days. 20 and 22 ga. copper.
http://www.angela.com/catalog/wire-and-solder/Angela_Vintage_Cloth.html (http://www.angela.com/catalog/wire-and-solder/Angela_Vintage_Cloth.html)
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Quite a beautiful job.
I have a never before appreciation for a beautifully wound coil. :D
I wonder if the silk useage is from down under. It is closer to china for sure. The person today who has studied the NS battery is from New Zealand and he said they used silk and cotton back then.
It would have been horribly expensive for american inventors to use silk. (that was my reasoning to look at it seriously.)
Some day when Hans comes back I might ask him. He is very busy on his new thread.
I think this thickness difference is really important. Having the iron wire thicker than the copper wire is making a big difference.
I will finish that last row soon and I will be able to really see.
jeanna
wow $60 for 100 ft. that is one coil. I guess once we get the thing perfected that won't be too much for a neverdead battery. Heck I just paid 128.00 for my truck battery.
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@ Jeanna:
That guy on the link I posted restoring the 1920's radio was from Australia but perhaps the radio was originally manufactured in the USA?
I am seriously considering ordering 100feet of the cotton covered copper wire in 20 ga. and then finding iron wire the same outside diameter as the insulation like you suggest. If I do this, I will also find a massive soft iron core from somewhere. Possibly like 2" diameter or maybe larger. If that does not put out some high numbers, I don't know what else to do.
Bill
**Edit** Yes, a pretty good amount of $$ but...BUT, look how easy to wind Jeanna and, I only used about 28 feet of wire on my 2 layers on my largest coil to date. 100 feet should make a nice sized coil, or several decent sized ones. It is very tempting.
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Storre,
IT WILL BE OBVIOUS THAT BY REASON OF THE MAGNETIC INDUCTIVE PROPERTIES OF THE COIL-BODY 4 THE CORE-PIECE 1 WILL NECESSARILY BE MAGETIZED WHILE A CURRENT IS GOING THROUGH THE BODY 4, SO THAT THE BATTERY MAY BE USED AS A SELF-GENERATING ELECTROMAGNET, IS FO DESIRED, IT BEING OBSERVED THAT TO SECURE THIS RESULT IS SIMPLY REQUIRED CONNECTING THE EXTENDED TERMINALS OF THE WIRES 5 AND 6 TOGETHER...
So the normally closed reed switch should be connected to terminals 5 and 6!
It is just that if you connect the 5,6 while the meter is clipped to the 10's the thing drops to zero.
so, this it the most important thing to clear up.
Making any kind of closed connection between the iron and copper is just making a short circuit in the electrolytic cell. There won't be any current flow through your meter if you create a short circuit which has less resistance.
"After you wind the primary you have 4 wires sticking up. The ends from where you started are called terminals 10. One is cu one is fe. The ending of the wires are called terminals 5(copper) and 6(iron) . So 2 wires 4 ends. He says to leave the 10's open so that is where I try to hook my meter leads. (although there has never been a difference in voltage, cuz they are the same wire.)"
In the Electrolytic Circuit the coil wires are simply voltaic electrodes, just like plates, and the fact that there are 'ends' is pretty much meaningless - they aren't much more than easily accessible connection points, and one point on an electrode surface is basically no different than any other.
The Electro-magnetic Circuit differs from the Electrolytic Circuit in that it uses the coil wires as a means to direct the flow of electrons generated by the electrolytic action, to create an electro-magnetic field. In this case the coil wire ends do play a significant role as how the coils are wired will determine the direction of current flow and the form of the resulting magnetic field.
In this case it is mandatory that the current flows through the iron coil and the copper coil in the same direction, if not then their generated magnetic fields will basically cancel out. This means that a terminal end pair can not be used as the connecting points for the external circuit. If they are then the current will flow in one direction thru the copper coil and the opposite direction in the iron coil, and cancel out their magnetic fields, resulting in no electro-magnet and no transformer action.
The correct wiring procedure then would be to connect the ends of the external circuit to one of the '10s' and the other to the opposite 5 or 6. Which description goes to show how inane Stubblefield's nomenclature for the coil ends was and is.
If this external circuit has a make and break device to provide for operation of the transformer action, then the current will be pulsed DC not AC. If AC is desired then the make and break device would have to alternate between closing the circuit between one pair of terminals and then between the other as this will reverse the current flows through the coils.
......
Regarding insulation options has anyone considered:
cotton medical dressing gauze, which is attractive as it can be purchased in rolls of varying width; am not sure how sheer they make it however.
cheese cloth
nylon netting
seems like someone mentioned nylon hose one time which sounds good, especially sheer hose.
If a netting type of material is used, the actual absorption abilities of the material probably wouldn't matter so much as the moisture should be able to move through the spaces; and the material itself will basically serve to prevent metal to metal contact.
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@jeanna
I guess could be a 1.2v led but not sure if there will be enough ma there to light it up. Just a guess but I think not necessary. I think the easiest way to test if it's oscillating is to wind a big secondary on it and measure the hz.
Here is something I found for silk tubing. I'm going to try and go with silk. Found this for $1 a meter. How many meters do you normally use on the primary? They have 3mm and 4mm. I'm going to start out with 4mm copper wire that I already have so the 4mm should work. 100M should make a very big primary or many smaller ones :)
http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/main.php?cat_id=22&group_id=3
@mthompson
The way I see the patent. The 2 10 wires are one copper end and one iron end. Is that how you understand it? In that case I would think the make and break would go between terminals 5 and 6. In other words 5-10 is a copper wire and 6-10 is the iron wire.
It's just a very long skinny battery with plates (wires) very long submerged in an electrolyte. That is why it doesn't make since to mess with the 2 ends of the plates (wires). I started to visualize it like a car battery that has a special switch between the terminals (5 and 6) such that when the switch closes and immediately opens and closes again. Repeatedly shorting out the battery 100s of times per second. If these long plates are wound in a coil wouldn't the repeated opening and closing of the circuit create the electromagnetic field which would then be used to operate the reed switch so that closing it opens it which closes it etc. Maybe you are explaining it that way but I got confused when you said to connect the external circuit to the 2 10s. The ext circuit you are referring to is the reed switch?
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@jeanne
I thought of another way to use a light during testing. What about adding a small battery inline? Not sure how it will effect the functioning of the primary but it might allow us to compensate for a weak primary until we find out how many winds, insulator and diameter of wire is needed to give it enough amperage. The on and off switching of the reed switch should still function and we can hopefully see the light flashing. Not sure how it will effect the pumping action or the speed of the oscillations but it would be a good test.
Like this: Lead 5 ---> (+aaa battery-) ---> (normally closed reed switch positioned over top of bolt) ---> Lead 6
But really we just need to make the primary a big enough voltaic battery to energize the electromagnet enough to operate the reed switch.
I suppose even we could test the action of the reed switch by even creating a simple single wire electromagnet with the battery and light also.
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@ mthompson:
One of our experimenters, I can't recall who, had tried nylon mesh and did not get good results. I can't say if it was because of the nylon, or some other variation with the coils construction. I don't see why cotton gauze would not work provided it didn't have any adhesive on the back of it.
I like your analysis of the patent language and I can't disagree with it. We will just have to test different methods and see. As Joe has mentioned, I think Stubblefield was intentionally vague in order to protect some of his discoveries. In any of my tests, I do not see any measurable difference between the 10's and 5 and 6. The best numbers come from any of the copper or iron wires to the core itself. This changes for some reason. One day, the iron wire (either one) to the core is the best and then a day or so later, the best readings come from the copper wire to the core. It is never the same. When it is good for the copper, the iron wire readings are low, and visa-versa.
This is why we need as many folks experimenting both here, and on the other Stubblefield topic. There are a lot of variables to be explored. I have a long list of things I want to try.
Bill
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@mthompson
Yes, OK. Now, the meter will connect the wires wherever it is hooked up. At the same time it will provide some resistance (different from meter to meter) and at the same time allow me to see how much of what kind of juice is moving around the wires.
It cannot tell me how much magnetism there is nor the direction if the direction change is too fast.
If I connect cu10 and fe6 with the meter, I will short out the wires just as if I connectec 5,6. BUT I think what you are saying is that if I connect 10 to 6, I will not be nullifying the magnetic field, while I am creating the voltage etc.
Your discussion of this is very helpful.
The part about not nullifying the magnetic field is mysterious, because when the wires are wound down then back 3 complete times, the field should be nullified by doing nothing else.
And yet there is a decided magnetic influence on the core piece.
Speeking of the core piece, ONE of my coils is made of iron pipe. I was told that this pipe is a good example of soft iron. I do believe this is true, because it is the only core piece that produces a SLUGGISH response in my compass. It also has a polarity that is opposite the others, but that may be from its hollowness or something else.
This pipe coil is the one I used for the spark gap experiment. (nothing changed that I know of after I put the wires close to spark.)
@storre
I suppose even we could test the action of the reed switch by even creating a simple single wire electromagnet with the battery and light also.
So, [ battery - copper coil wound around a pencil - light - reed switch - battery ]
Is that what you have in mind?
That link has the lingerie strap that I was thinking of. The last silk one on the bottom.
The pictures show a non flexible cotton or nylon weave structure; and the silk has a knit structure. The good news about that is that the knitted silk tube will get longer and thinner when you stretch it, so you may end up with more meterage.
My shortest coil has 5 ft of wire and my longest has 50 ft. 50 ft is $75 at 1.50/ft.
I will check the pharmacy for some gauze on a roll. Good idea mthompson. (I have been thinking of cheesecloth but it is very hard to cut or tear)
Thank you both for some great input,
jeanna
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@jeanna
I think the easiest way to test this before adding the reed switch is to test it just like any other battery using cu5 and fe6. Once we get enough amperage to operate the NC reed switch then replace the meter with the reed switch on the same terminals and it should work to create the auto switching to create the pulsed dc or would it be ac?
About testing with a simple electromagnet I made a simple drawing.
BTW, found these reed switches. I found out all the ones I had are N.O type :-/
http://cgi.ebay.com/NIPPON-ALEPH-HYR-1003-REED-SWITCH-N-Close-15-35-AT_W0QQitemZ180234036111QQihZ008QQcategoryZ58169QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
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@all
here is a link to the store that sells the cotton tubing for use on the primary bare copper wire, i know i posted this a million times but i saw folks asking again.
http://www.diyaudiostore.com/ (http://www.diyaudiostore.com/)
Joe
the bare copper peice in a romex 12 G wire should slip through that nicely im contiplating getting a fatter grade of copper like 10 or 8 tho the readigns seem to increase the most with the addition of the copper mass as opposed to the iron mass.
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@andy
I was thinking today if it would be better to use stranded copper wire. I know it would be harder to slip through the silk or cotton tubing but make the increased surface area would increase the galvanic response? Do you think it would? Sort of like the difference between a car battery and a deep cycle battery allowing quicker bursts of higher amperage.
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@mthompson
The way I see the patent. The 2 10 wires are one copper end and one iron end. Is that how you understand it? In that case I would think the make and break would go between terminals 5 and 6. In other words 5-10 is a copper wire and 6-10 is the iron wire.
It's just a very long skinny battery with plates (wires) very long submerged in an electrolyte. That is why it doesn't make since to mess with the 2 ends of the plates (wires). I started to visualize it like a car battery that has a special switch between the terminals (5 and 6) such that when the switch closes and immediately opens and closes again. Repeatedly shorting out the battery 100s of times per second. If these long plates are wound in a coil wouldn't the repeated opening and closing of the circuit create the electromagnetic field which would then be used to operate the reed switch so that closing it opens it which closes it etc. Maybe you are explaining it that way but I got confused when you said to connect the external circuit to the 2 10s. The ext circuit you are referring to is the reed switch?
Much of the confusion lies in Stubblefield's nomenclature (naming procedure). He referred to the copper coil wire as 5, and the iron coil wire as 6. He then referred to the copper and iron ends of the coils where the coil wrap began, as 10. Later he seemed to referred to the copper and iron ends where the coil wraps finished as 5 and 6. One of the best things you all could do would be to agree on a new improved naming convention for these basically simple items so they can be easily referred to. I suggested 5a and 6a be substituted for 10; and that 5b and 6b be substituted for the reference to the 5 and 6 ends at the finish of the coil wraps. jeanna has just used the terms cu10 and fe6; while you now commented above: 5-10 is a copper wire and 6-10 is the iron wire. Like which side of the road the people of a country decided to drive on, it doesn't make much difference as long as everyone agrees, but it is mass confusion until they do agree.
The only real function of a make and break device is for the operation of the transformer. It isn't needed to complete a circuit to tap the current or to create an electro-magnet. However, while it isn't important where you make the connections between the copper and iron if all you want is current, it certainly does make a difference if you want to shape the magnetic fields properly to create the electro-magnet. Just trace the flow of the electrons along the wires and you'll find connecting a make and break device through either end pair will result in the current flowing one way through the copper wire and the other way through the iron, with the magnetic field of the one basically nullifying the field of the other... There's a picture back on page ten that might clear up my comments about how the electro-magnetic circuit has to be wired. 'Internal' circuit is the movement of ions and electrons in the electrolytic solution and the iron and copper. 'External' is the circuit outside the device, which is most probably where the make and brake device would be located.
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Thanks Joe, but I think the shipping would make this way too expensive. Jim could use it, of course. This place is in Australia. maybe california/australia, but I don't think so.
Storre's link is here in US so it is better for me. Still I don't want to load the whole wire first. I will wrap as I go. At least for now.
---------------
@All,
I want to ask a question about the magnetic field. I don't see any change in a compass with the wires shorted and not shorted.
This is the real reason I haven't pursued this direction with much enthusiasm.
Is the reed switch so much more sensitive than a compass or a compass wired with a coil to become a galvanometer?
A while back I wrapped the iron wire with a little secondary which showed the same voltage as the main primary. This may produce results, but I am still not sure. I only did that on 1 coil.
I did this after reading about coil guns and the flash circuit with its multiple secondarys on a single primary.
----
I just bought some gauze on a roll. very cheap. .79 for 10 yd and it is 2 in. wide. I cut it 3/4 in wide and will wrap today. Also, Micropore tape. .89 for 20 yd. It is a paper tape that allows air and water through. I will at least wrap the ends of the gauze with this and maybe make a small coil to check out if it works. I mean the tape must be non occlusive, so hopefully...
Thank you,
jeanna
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mthompson,
jeanna has just used the terms cu10 and fe6; while you now commented above: 5-10 is a copper wire and 6-10 is the iron wire. Like which side of the road the people of a country decided to drive on, it doesn't make much difference as long as everyone agrees
yes, I am using Stubblefield's method.
If it is a 10 it is the beginning if it is a 10cu it is the copper wire at the beginning. I think once you are used to it it isn't so bad. The 5.6 are very clear but I usually add 5cu and 6fe just for sure.
jeanna
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@mthompson
If I connect cu10 and fe6 with the meter, I will short out the wires just as if I connectec 5,6. BUT I think what you are saying is that if I connect 10 to 6, I will not be nullifying the magnetic field, while I am creating the voltage etc.
Lets say the copper wire is (-) and the iron wire is (+). The coil is standing so its core is vertical, up and down. The two ends of the iron and copper coils where you started winding are at the top, and the other two ends where the coils terminate are at the bottom. The winding was done so if an electron moves from the top to the bottom it passes downward in a counter-clockwise motion, whereas if it passes upward it is moving in a clockwise motion. Lets say we are looking at the movement of the electrons and not the conventional fiction of electrical flow as the movement of + charges.
If you make a connection between the ends at the top then the electrons will, more or less, move up the length of the copper wire coil in a clockwise motion to the connection with the iron wire and then proceed to move down its length in a counter-clockwise motion - the circuit is completed by the electrolytic movement of ions between the two wires along their length. The flow in the copper wire (clockwise) is the opposite of the flow in the iron wire (counter-clockwise) and their magnetic fields will be correspondingly opposite as well. One will probably predominate so there might be some magnetism exhibited by the core but not much.
If you instead make a connection between the end of the copper wire at the top with the end of the iron wire at the bottom the electrons will basically flow up the length of the copper coil in a clockwise motion, then down thru the straight shunt, and back up the length of the iron coil again with a clockwise motion. The flow in each coil is in the same direction (up and clockwise), and their magnetic fields are merged and reinforced. The slight magnetic field from the current flowing down in the straight shunt is not significant.
The part about not nullifying the magnetic field is mysterious, because when the wires are wound down then back 3 complete times, the field should be nullified by doing nothing else.
No, because what is important is if the current is flowing clockwise or counter-clockwise. Up and down doesn't mean much as long as the movement around the core stays the same.
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mthompson,
Have you made one of these?
It is a little hard to follow these thoughts because they seem to be opposite what we see.
the copper is +
the iron is -
Stubblefield's drawing shows the winding as seen from the top to be clockwise.
Also winding back the direction looking from the top remains the same, but since it is now being wound upwards, would that make it counterclockwise? and therefore turn the electron flow??
Lets say the copper wire is (-) and the iron wire is (+). The coil is standing so its core is vertical, up and down. The two ends of the iron and copper coils where you started winding are at the top, and the other two ends where the coils terminate are at the bottom.
The winding was done so if an electron moves from the top to the bottom it passes downward in a counter-clockwise motion, whereas if it passes upward it is moving in a clockwise motion. Lets say we are looking at the movement of the electrons and not the conventional fiction of electrical flow as the movement of + charges.
The flow in each coil is in the same direction (up and clockwise), and their magnetic fields are merged and reinforced.
No, because what is important is if the current is flowing clockwise or counter-clockwise. Up and down doesn't mean much as long as the movement around the core stays the same.
maybe now some of this will get clear??
I hope
thank you for doing this
jeanna
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@mthompson
I made a drawing to visualize the flow better. I think you are right that you need to connect the reed switch to the correct end of the bifiler.
In this drawing lets say the red wire is copper and the black is iron. In the left example the fields would cancel each other out as the reed switches pulses on and off but in the second example they fields would be turning in the same direction and would create a magnetic field until the field increased enough to open the switch which would turn off the field and then the switch would go to it's naturally closed position and the cycle would start over again. How fast the field saturates enough to open the relay would determine the frequency and I think that would be determined by the amount of turns.
So if this is matched up with the NS patent then the reed switch would go on 10 and 5 or 10 and 6, making sure one side of the reed switch is the copper wire and the other side is the iron.
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I think I just thought of a clearer way to say this.
Lets say we start at the beginning of the winds at terminals 10. wind down then back it is all clockwise as seen from the top.
But
on those same wires wound the same way,
start at the ends called 5,6 and you will be following a counterclockwise direction throuout the layers until you arrive at the innermost wires and their ends called 10
Now it can start all over again.
thank you
jeanna
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So, if it doesn't matter whether the winds are going up or down, then I think you have explained something crucial.
The first pulse will make a polarity of one direction,
when the pulse ends (at the 5,6 terminals) and turns around, the polarity will go the other way.
Now what is the reason nothing should be on the terminals 10 and the switcher going off n on is at the 5,6?
Shouldn't there also be a switch at the terminals 10?
thank you,
jeanna
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I don't think it matters if the windings are going up or down, just that the current in the iron AND the copper are traveling in the same direction when the switch is closed. This way the spins don't cancel each other out. I think in the last drawing I did, the left example would cause the spins to cancel each other out but by just connecting one end of the reed switch to the opposite end of the bifiler, they copper one iron would spin in the same direction.
The switch would remain closed until the field saturates and then that would cause the switch to open and repeat etc.
NS is just stretching and winding the 2 electrodes of a galvanic cell so that it's a self generating electromagnet and then using the electromagnet to make and break the cell so it creates a pulsing action.
Normally this would corrode one of the metals but NS says this is not the case in this battery. I suppose it's not because the electrons flow in one direction but then spring(?) back when the reed switch opens the circuit.
All speculation until I can get a N.C. reed switch to test it with :)
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@ All:
I may be incorrect but I have a feeling that the reed switch should be attached between the core and either 5 or 6, depending on the polarity of that particular coil. There is so much more power there to be able to close the switch as opposed to what we have on just the wires. I think this is at least worth some consideration. Connecting to the core should not reverse the rotation of the field, at least, as far as I can see. (Key word here is should)
Bill
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@ All:
In the other topic, Storre just pointed out to me that the link I posted here for the cotton insulated wire might have a problem with the wire. It says: Tinned and waxed copper wire. Plus, it is stranded. This might not work on our coils. The tinning might be ok, and the stranded might even help, but the wax? Crap! I am glad he noticed it. I should have read all the specs more carefully. Sorry all.
Bill
***EDIT***
Of course, maybe in Stubblefield's day the wire was tinned and waxed also?
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@ All:
I may be incorrect but I have a feeling that the reed switch should be attached between the core and either 5 or 6, depending on the polarity of that particular coil. There is so much more power there to be able to close the switch as opposed to what we have on just the wires. I think this is at least worth some consideration. Connecting to the core should not reverse the rotation of the field, at least, as far as I can see. (Key word here is should)
Bill
Hi Bill!
What do you mean by connect one end of the reed switch to the core? If you are referring to the soft metal core of the primary, I don't think that would work but I think I'm misunderstanding you.
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@ All:
In the other topic, Storre just pointed out to me that the link I posted here for the cotton insulated wire might have a problem with the wire. It says: Tinned and waxed copper wire. Plus, it is stranded. This might not work on our coils. The tinning might be ok, and the stranded might even help, but the wax? Crap! I am glad he noticed it. I should have read all the specs more carefully. Sorry all.
Bill
***EDIT***
Of course, maybe in Stubblefield's day the wire was tinned and waxed also?
Also depending on the size of this primary, it might get warm enough to melt the wax. I'm going to stick with dry cotton or my preference which is silk. I found it cheap enough at that US link and they have cotton also. I want to eliminate as many variables as possible and stick to the original patent as much as possible. Once I get some results I think the next step is to scale it up to get some more useable power.
I think I will rename this the NS Twisted Battery because that is how I'm seeing it more and more as I visualize it. Just unwind the 2 wires and you have a simple battery. Coil the electrodes and you have an electromagnet. Use this electromagnet to turn itself on and off and you have a self generating electromagnet which is what I think he calls it in the patent.
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Wow,
good call storre. [nevermind this remark]
@Bill,
I was thinking about the core too.
After my head stops spinning following the strawberries in my coil and thinking about the caduceus and on and on...
I remember that NS is always shown with 2 batteries a distance apart and except for the posed shot with his son in the room. Granted the 2 are to the N and S of a telephone device, but...
I also remember the time I was reading the voltage on a battery outside and saw that if I connected the cu to my carbon rods some distance apart from my NS coil the voltage would go up; and if I also connected the iron to another iron rod in the ground a distance away it again added to the voltage.
So, I am wondering if NS really did work with 0.7vdc or maybe he worked with a starting voltage of 1.4 vdc.
perhaps a reed switch or a spark gap on each of 2 coils at a distance and connected through the ground?
----
Do you have any reed switches?
All I have are NO
I think the other kind are pretty rare.
jeanna
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@ All:
Below quoted in bold, is from something I found on the history of insulated copper wire:
Titre du document / Document title
The early history of insulated copper wire
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
MILLS Allan A. (1) ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, ROYAUME-UNI
R?sum? / Abstract
In the early 1800s galvanometers could be constructed with the fine gauges of silk-covered copper or silver wires produced for decorative purposes, but when Faraday was making his classic electrical experiments in 1831 heneeded a sturdier gauge of copper wire. Bare copper wire was available in many diameters for mechanical applications, but coils for electromagnetic investigations had to be insulated with string and calico. It was soon realized that the cotton-covered springy iron wire then used to hold out the brims of ladies' bonnets showed how copper wire might be similarly wrapped to provide a flexible insulation. The simple manual machines used by the bonnet-wire makers were readily adapted and improved, and a six-head version was built by William Henley. This craftsman's vision of the growing importance of insulated copper wire was abundantly justified, and he built up a large-but poorly organised--empire in the wire and cable trade. Henley's original multiple-head wrapping machine has been located in the Science Museum, London, and the associated silk-covered copper wire subjected to physical, chemical, and electrical testing. For comparison, the electrical conductivity of the 'mechanical grade' copper wire used by Faraday has also been determined.
Revue / Journal Title
Annals of science ISSN 0003-3790 CODEN ANNSA8
Source / Source
2004, vol. 61, no4, pp. 453-467 [15 page(s) (article)] (ref. et notes dissem.)
They first mention cotton, and then both cotton and silk. Just passing it on.
@Storre:
Yes, I mean to the core itself. (Iron core) I get easily 10 times more mA's readings and over twice the vdc readings from the core to the other wires. The direction of flow should not change or be reversed so it should not negate the magnetic field.....right? Or, am I wrong? I am over my head here and do not pretend to "know".
Bill
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hi jeanna:
Maybe a way to increase the voltage is to just increase the quantity of cells like a car battery is made. We are basically dealing with 1 cell with a bifilar setup but if we use a 4 wire setup quafiler? (hehe) instead of 2 then we double the voltage right?
Just wire them in series to not null out the self-inductance?
You think that would work in case the electromagnet is not strong enough in the bifilar setup to open the reed switch? Well NS patent only calls for bifilar so it must not be necessary but it could be an easy way to boost the power on this electromagneticbattery thingy :)
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@ Jeanna:
Yes, we both have done similar experiments with our coils and carbon rods. I am leaning toward using the core in the connection. (at least, trying it that way)
No, I have no reed switches NO or NC. I do have some relays from my van I can take apart and make my own reed switch. I believe I can make it either way, open or closed.
I am still searching for copper wire insulated with cotton with no extras added. There has to be someplace in the world that makes this stuff. Right now, I am leaning back to the stuff Joe posted. (tubes of cotton) I am thinking that the audio shop does not make the stuff, we need to find where they buy it from.
Bill
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@bill
I think using the core would change the electromagnetic operation. It could be considered part of the voltaic couple since it's connected to the rest via the electrolyte but I think it would screw up the spinning action of the electromagnet.
I was trying to think what NS might have used as a sort of reed switch and drew this. What do you think? Starts off in the closed position due to gravity which then would turn on the magnetic field, raise the black metal contact (turning off the magnetic field) then it would return to it's normal closed position and start all over. Would just need to experiment with the weight of the moveable contact and the distance from the core. The distance could be regulated by moving the fixed pivot base up and down.
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I am still searching for copper wire insulated with cotton with no extras added. There has to be someplace in the world that makes this stuff. Right now, I am leaning back to the stuff Joe posted. (tubes of cotton) I am thinking that the audio shop does not make the stuff, we need to find where they buy it from.
Bill
China maybe?
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China maybe?
storre wasn't this your link?
http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/main.php?cat_id=22&group_id=3 (http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/main.php?cat_id=22&group_id=3)
Bill,
straight from hong kong . not cheap. maybe Joe's place in Aussie is as good or better?
The micropore tape works well and is cheap. more on that later
jeanna
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OOO this is cool. I am surprised by this. Maybe I will be the only one, but this says something to me.
I put a cap across the 5,6
I also and simultaneously put a cap across the 10's
EACH cap collected 0.725vdc in it!!!!!!!!
This means to me that I have a kind of proof that the way we are looking at the charge in the wires is correct. There was no meter anywhere until I removed the caps from the terminals.
There were no extra resistors needed to urge the charge to move in any direction.
This is my newest coil. It has 18 gauge wire of both cu and fe the moist reading is 0.72 across the 5,6. my meter broke so this is my old meter that cannot read amps.
This coil disserves a secondary.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Great job!!! You see, this is what we need. Different folks trying different things and reporting on them. So, you got vdc off of both ends at the same time.......interesting. I'll bet you got mA's as well but I am not sure how supercaps store those. This goes along with one of my lines of thinking.......that if you can get almost .8 vdc in one cap...and now two, maybe you can get .8 vdc in 10, 50, 100, or more caps from the same little coil? This has to mean something Jeanna. I am impressed!!!!
Bill
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@bill
I think using the core would change the electromagnetic operation. It could be considered part of the voltaic couple since it's connected to the rest via the electrolyte but I think it would screw up the spinning action of the electromagnet.
I was trying to think what NS might have used as a sort of reed switch and drew this. What do you think? Starts off in the closed position due to gravity which then would turn on the magnetic field, raise the black metal contact (turning off the magnetic field) then it would return to it's normal closed position and start all over. Would just need to experiment with the weight of the moveable contact and the distance from the core. The distance could be regulated by moving the fixed pivot base up and down.
Storre
looking at your drawing I think your idea would work great with a large coil
Unfortunatly I don't think we currently have the power to make it work .
I tried to describe a way to make a contact a while back on the other thread
Re: Nathan Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replication
? Reply #2016
I don't have anything with a core at the moment ............but my original coil wouldn't even come close to picking up a paper clip .
gary
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Gary,
I've been thinking about this electromagnet thing. I don't know how it could ever pick up anything.
Because it goes wonking back and forth being an electromagnet one microsecond and an induction coil the next microsecond.
It isn't even that it doesn't have the power. Perhaps it does - or doesn't. It happens way too fast to show any effects.
In fact effects of either...
Either the electromagnet or the induction coil.
But like the LED that looks like a solid light. We know it flashes because we made it that way with the joule thief (or whatever).
This battery generator is making something so fast we aren't even able to sense what it is with our tools.
We don't even know how to catch it or where.
It is not the galvanic thing. We are told that. It only uses that to get this other thing started.
And this other thing is moving really fast between 2 states. Each state reverses the other.
All we need to do is capture the electricity as it goes whizzing past.
And, I have to think it goes in both directions.
------------
With dc the strawberries must go from one place to the other.
with ac they only need to peek their sweet noses out of the wire and duck back. out then in. The faster they do this the faster the frequency is.
I am not sure of this but maybe the FARTHER they peek out the higher the voltage.
I really can't say what ac voltage is.
It relates to magnetism directly but this peeking out is the closest I can get to understanding it. and I am not sure.
---
So, what did I collect? was it strawberries noses sticking out on one side and leaves and stems sticking out on the other ...0.72vdc each way?
hmmm
jeanna
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@ Jeanna and all:
I was just thinking... (dangerous) remember that picture Hans posted of the box of Stubblefield batteries? OK.
What if he had all of those wired in series and used that energy to open and close the reed switch? It just occurred to me that this might be a possible answer. Maybe one will not do it. Maybe, he had to wire all, or some, of those in series, and maybe the rest in parallel? Just thinking out loud.
Bill
PS For the newer folks, I can repost the photo I am speaking of if requested.
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What if he had all of those wired in series
Bill you are completely correct.
From the brochure (only the first page available so far)
"When coil or cell is placed in jar as seen in fig 2, a practically constant electromotive force of something less than 1 volt is the output, the coil being practically free from polarization effect common with most types of battery, (cell as shown in fig 2 may be connected up in series to obtain any required voltage)"
He promisses some explanation about gaining from being in the earth etc.
But the fact is that he is talking about what WE are calling the primary. This thing may be connected in series and does not polarize.
This is what gives me the confidence to claim that what I collected came from the dual action I described before even in a jar of water and without a secondary.
Basically we already have overunity here because this generator does not need to be recharged.
Oh my, I hope we can get a look at the brochure.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
In regards to OU, I thought we already had it when we built these coils and when dry....had measurable output. some say..."That's just galvanic....etc..." but, these were dry!!!!! Even .35 vdc as low as it is represents .35vdc more than we put into the system correct? I think these are OU devices as they are. But, that's just me. I have also had people ask "well how much was the wire, and how long did you spend winding the coils...you have to count that." This is where I had the conversation with Hans about what is, and is not OU. I look at my coil in the ground just putting out volts and amps (OK mA's) and it does not ask for a thing from me. If this is not OU then I guess I don't know what is.
"To obtain any required voltage." would this possibly mean the required voltage to operate the reed make/break system?
Old Stubblefield had more going on than the language in the patent might suggest. (My opinion)
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
In regards to OU,
I guess you must consider how with any galvanic battery the negative metal gets placed onto the positive electrode and it is called corrosion. (I think I have those directions right)
But since there is NO CORROSION on this thing, I have the desire to call it ou. It is the corrosion that is what makes a lead acid battery finally give up.
There is also the part where we should never need to 'recharge' this because half of its life is spent recharging itself (I guess I should use his words It doesn't get polarized)
[also, there is no corrosion in non-acidulated soil. I guess he must have tried to add vinegar and maybe found it ruined the battery.]
"To obtain any required voltage." would this possibly mean the required voltage to operate the reed make/break system?
perhaps, but I don't think it is necessarily that meaning. The required voltage to do something that takes voltage -is how I read this.
Old Stubblefield had more going on than the language in the patent might suggest. (My opinion)
I think we just don't have his instructions. It was and is novel. No one ever paid any attention to him so there was never a heritage of his designs.
Look at the cell phone sitting on top of a horse drawn carriage! Even 25 years ago they were arguing about whether or not NS invented radio. No one ever mentioned cell phones because they hadn't been put into use yet!!
I hope we will be able to read that brochure.
jeanna
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@jeanna:
The cap results you got seem right to me. Same as if you put a cap across a battery's terminals. You just put 2 in parallel by putting one across the 10s also. The cap is just going to hold the difference in pressure from the galvanic response which shows your cell is working. We just need to see if it's enough power to turn off the reed switch. If not then we just need to use more wire. Same as the difference between a small wet cell and a larger one. Bigger plates is the only difference and in the NS battery the plates are the 2 wires 5-10 and 6-10. The things I'm going to experiment with is the difference between using more wire or bigger wire. More wire I think would be equivalent to a wet cell battery with plates with a lot of surface area like used in cars for releasing the amperage quickly. Overall, more wire on the primary should increase the amperage.
@Bill:
I think if we look at this as a regular battery even though it has one special property, it will make more sense what is going on. A regular battery will do the same thing in regards to the caps. You could put one cap across the terminals of a battery. If the battery is new it will have a charge that will partially be stored in the capacitor as a difference in pressure. You could do this over and over until the battery was depleted. Doesn't matter if you put it across the top terminals or reach in the battery and connect it to the bottom of the plates. Same thing as connecting across 5-6 and then 10-10.
The special quality about the NS battery from what I can figure out is if you use its electromagnet properties (just because the plates are stretched out (the wire) and turned around a coil) you can use that to turn itself off (with the NS reed switch) which will then immediately short the battery and cause the magnetic field to start up again, disabling the reed switch and on and on. This to me means the ions will be passing from one plate (wire) to the other as a galvanic response BUT then bouncing back when the reed switches opens. It seems like discharges and recharges 100s of times per second. Sort of like a water hammer no? A water hammer magically lifts water above it's primary level by the very fast turning on a shutting off the flow and taking advantage of the slap back to propel it to a higher altitude? Would the equivalent in electrons be back EMF? Maybe that is what the reed switch is creating. A type of back EMS that is used to move charge from one plate to the other and then slap it back. Maybe this is why NS says in the patent that the battery does not continue to discharge itself because the slap-back instantly recharges it. Like a pendulum that never stops swinging. This way there is no oxidation of the anode. Then use this never ending pulsing and put a secondary over it and with induction, get useable higher voltage by putting a lot more windings on the secondary. That is how he got the hi frequency ac on the secondary. I see the primary as AC also but someone here called it pulsed DC. In the end I suppose it doesn't matter because you can use the same to do work either way.
So Bill I don't think we should mess with trying to capture power from the primary. Just use it's oscillating to power our secondary and use that for work. Higher voltage is always more useful anyway because we can make amps from it.
About the drawing, I think the large we make the primary the stronger the electromagnet effect so that we open the reed switch or the mechanical one I drew. Just like a small AAA battery connected to a coil will create a weak electromagnet but a larger battery (more wire) will create a stronger one. We just need to reach that threshold to open the reed switch. I ordered a few from Ebay (wow are NC reeds hard to find!) so soon I should be able to test it. I think the crude one I drew could work but would require a bigger primary to life the metal up to open the circuit. A very small reed switch should be able to oscillate easier too.
@jeanna:
I think if we make the primary big enough, it has to create an electromagnet strong enough to do work with. If you take a coil and connect it to a strong enough battery you can create an electromagnet as everyone knows. The cool thing about the NS battery is the battery is ALSO the coil but it's still a battery. Just an interesting one because the plates are very long and thin and coiled but they still have the same function as a regular wet cell battery. So if it works with a regular battery then if we make it big enough it will create an electromagnet exactly until the point that the field is strong enough and then the reed switch opens in the presence of the magnetic field which because of the design of the switch turns OFF the circuit and the field collapses and it starts all over again. We are just connecting a coil up to a battery and disconnecting it very quickly but instead of doing it manually we are using the electromagnetic effects of this battery to control the switch. Like a ball that never stops bouncing. Remember it's going to happen exactly at the speed it needs to be. The electromagnet will build up just until it's strong enough to open the reed switch and turn itself off so the switch has to close since that it's natural state and then it starts all over again. So it can't run faster than itself and not create enough EMF. The rest of what you wrote syncs with what I'm thinking.
@Bill
I think instead of putting more cells in series to activate the reed switch, we just need to keep increasing the primary size until the galvanic battery produces enough amps to open the reed switch. We could test all this by just putting a battery in line with the coil to increase the amps. At one point the reed switch should start bouncing as it turns on and off the circuit and thus the electromagnet.
About OU I think if we don't incorporate the reed switch, we will not get OU because it will just be a standard battery and eventually oxidize itself to a dead battery. Just put a very small load across 5 and 6 and watch the voltage decrease over time like a regular battery would. The pulsing action with the reed switch is what I think discharges and recharges the battery to make it OU or at least a self recharging battery.
"To obtain any required voltage." would this possibly mean the required voltage to operate the reed make/break system?
Bill, to me this is exactly what he is saying.
My wife reminded me last night that I might have a very interesting electrolyte. I use to work for a guy in turkey that did something to ionize water and I have gallons of it. You can for example use it as a wire with virtually no loss and no heat developing in the water. I've done it with 110-220 volts by putting the hot wire from the mains in the water and then at whatever distance put one of the wires from a 110v incandescent in the water and having the other wire of the light connected directly to the neutral or other main in the case of 220v and the bulb lights and shows no loss of power. Just like salt water would do but there is NO salt in the water. It's like fresh water but has some extra ions in it. This could be a great electrolyte to make the galvanic action much better between the iron and copper. Can't wait to try it. If anyone is interested here is a video I did showing that technology plus a lot more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CogOHEpfgA
He does the thing with the light bulb at about 7:10
For the curious, that's my voice in the video :)
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@ storre:
Great post!! I will watch the video in a bit and reply to you in more detail, but I need to go to work now. I just wanted to say that I agree with your thinking in general, and specifically the larger wire, more wire=larger plates in a standard battery. I believe this to be correct.
I will post more later. I can't wait to check out the info on the "altered" water....very interesting. Thanks.
Bill
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Hi All,
I just received the brochure, well a copy.
I asked for permission to post it here. When if that comes in I will, but for now, I want to share this interesting info.
He has 2 sections electromagnet and induction coil.
In the electromagnet section he says if you hook up the "inner to outer or outer to inner" terminals you achieve the electromagnet.
So, this is where the reed switch or relay should go.
Later in the induction coil set up he says once you have achieved the electromagnet state and you add a secondary you will have the induction coil.
the first part is what I want to address. He is using inner and outer to solve the language problem. I think was it mthompson that described just this? NOT leaving the 10's alone but Connecting the 10Cu to the 6Fe / alternately the 10Fe with the 5Cu. I need to go back to look at the implications from yesterday's post.
jeanna
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@ All:
Here is a link to some free software that calculates all things to do with wire. (Below copied from site)
Works with ALL versions of Windows!
* Insulation Data & Specifications
* Dimensional Data for a wide range of sizes
* Current Capacities
* Voltage Breakdowns
* Resistance Calculator
* Break Strength Calculator
* Length to Weight Conversions
* Tips on stripping/soldering
* Ordering Info
http://www.wiretron.com/free.html (http://www.wiretron.com/free.html)
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
I look forward to reading the information. I am still not sure what to make of this but, this is good to know. I hope he allows you to post it here. 5,6, to the 10s then? Inner to outer, that has to be it. Good work.
Bill
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Good News Folks
I just got permission
"There's no problem showing this to others. If you put it on the Internet or distribute it somehow, please credit Pogue Library, Murray State University. RHL "
that is the author of the book Kentucky Farmer Invents Wireless Telephone, R H Lochte
I had to make screenshots then piece them in order. I added a prefix to the names so they should show up in order. Here goes:
jeanna
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Now for the rest of it
Thanks again to the
Pogue Library, Murray State University.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Fantastic!! This was the book Maddog was trying to find. I downloaded all the pages and will read on my surveillance job tonight. Thank you!!!
Bill
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Hi All,
I just received the brochure, well a copy.
I asked for permission to post it here. When if that comes in I will, but for now, I want to share this interesting info.
He has 2 sections electromagnet and induction coil.
In the electromagnet section he says if you hook up the "inner to outer or outer to inner" terminals you achieve the electromagnet.
So, this is where the reed switch or relay should go.
Later in the induction coil set up he says once you have achieved the electromagnet state and you add a secondary you will have the induction coil.
the first part is what I want to address. He is using inner and outer to solve the language problem. I think was it mthompson that described just this? NOT leaving the 10's alone but Connecting the 10Cu to the 6Fe / alternately the 10Fe with the 5Cu. I need to go back to look at the implications from yesterday's post.
jeanna
Great find on the brochure! Can't wait to read!
In the electromagnet section he says if you hook up the "inner to outer or outer to inner" terminals you achieve the electromagnet.
So good to hear this. Exactly what I thought. Connect to the top or bottom of the battery which is another way to say the same thing. When they say inner to outer or outer to inner it confirms what (andy?) said about not canceling out the spin creating the electromagnet! Perfect! It's all confirmed and ready to experiment!! It functions just like I imagined and now it's just a matter of making the battery strong enough (big enough plates(wires)) for it to open the NC reed switch! Can't wait to get mine!!!
So just to be clear. The reed switch needs to be connected across one of the coppers and then the opposite of the bifilar to the iron. So copper to iron but important that it's from one end to the other or you will negate the electron spin creating the electromagnet!
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Now,
Here is what happened when I tested connecting 1 inner with 1 outer and looked at the compass.
First, with the cell moist there is a voltage across any pair of cu and fe wires. In this case around 0.7vdc
Now, I test with a compass. near the center of the coil when there is still no connection the compass needle points mildly toward the cell.
As soon as I connect 1 inner cu with 1 outer fe the compass needle sslooowwwly goes to normal N. Now, this does make sense. When the cu and fe are connected all voltage goes to zero. It follows that the magnetism would also go to zero.
I may be turned around, but this says to me that NO is what we want.
Switch Open - current makes mag field.
mag field closes the switch connecting cu and fe wires
closed switch means voltage stops
no voltage - means no mag field-
no mag field means switch opens
back to the top
jeanna
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Thanks for posting the brochure jeanna
gary
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Now,
Here is what happened when I tested connecting 1 inner with 1 outer and looked at the compass.
First, with the cell moist there is a voltage across any pair of cu and fe wires. In this case around 0.7vdc
Now, I test with a compass. near the center of the coil when there is still no connection the compass needle points mildly toward the cell.
As soon as I connect 1 inner cu with 1 outer fe the compass needle sslooowwwly goes to normal N. Now, this does make sense. When the cu and fe are connected all voltage goes to zero. It follows that the magnetism would also go to zero.
I may be turned around, but this says to me that NO is what we want.
Switch Open - current makes mag field.
mag field closes the switch connecting cu and fe wires
closed switch means voltage stops
no voltage - means no mag field-
no mag field means switch opens
back to the top
jeanna
I am no being allowed to modify my last post because there now seems to be a time limit to edit my post.
So, I am sorry for the extra pagelength.
Anyway,
I tried to repeat the compass reading thing and now, I cannot.
I even got away from the fridge which moves the compass needle.
I still think the logic is what I posted, but without some way to see what it is (other than with a dmm, that is) I am at a loss.
I agree with was it Gary? there is too little of anything going on.
AND within 24 hours any coil I make goes down in voltage at least 0.1v. I left one in a jar of water last night and this morning it is down that much. Not to the core, just the wires.
This means to me that the wires are getting corrosion
any other ideas??
jeanna
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I hooked up my wires as described and tried it both ways. I tested with a small iron wire and could not see any magnetic effect at all. I tired both 10's and once each of 5 and 6. (one to the 10 and the 5, and later one to the 10 and the 6) Nothing there as I can detect. I have two cases to work now but when I get a chance, I will try jumping from the core to each wire and see what I can get as far as magnetic effect goes.
Bill
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I am no being allowed to modify my last post because there now seems to be a time limit to edit my post.
So, I am sorry for the extra pagelength.
Anyway,
I tried to repeat the compass reading thing and now, I cannot.
I even got away from the fridge which moves the compass needle.
I still think the logic is what I posted, but without some way to see what it is (other than with a dmm, that is) I am at a loss.
I agree with was it Gary? there is too little of anything going on.
AND within 24 hours any coil I make goes down in voltage at least 0.1v. I left one in a jar of water last night and this morning it is down that much. Not to the core, just the wires.
This means to me that the wires are getting corrosion
any other ideas??
jeanna
I really think the switch needs to be NC. I just heard and interview with Thrapp where he said the same thing. This is just a standard battery if you remove the reed switch. The fact that the electrodes are wires instead of plates makes no difference. It is just simple galvanic action. He winds them up to create a magnetic field JUST to activate a make and break so as to pulse itself. It's this pulsing that makes the ions quickly flow from one metal to the other and then snap back so the battery does not discharge itself like a normal battery would.
Your battery is going to zero just for this reason like any battery of this type would. Once the ions have transferred from the anode to the cathode it's dead unless you recharge it and force the ions back. Then after many times the corrosion will over come and the battery is basically dead.
So I see it like this:
The first state even though it is only for an instant is:
1) closed reed switch since that's it's normally state with no magnetic field present. Magnetic field will start to be created as long as switch is closed.
2) this closed switch basically shorts out the battery and causes the ions to run from the anode to the cathode and because the anode and cathode are round in a coil, it creates a magnetic field (assuming of course the battery is big enough to make this noticable) Other important point so the magnetic field of the iron wire doesn't cancel out the magnetic field of the copper wire is to connect the reed switch to the opposite end of each electrode. So 5fe to 10cu OR 6cu to 10fe. Doesn't make a difference. Just so the magnetic field is running in the same direction. Once the magnetic field is strong enough to OPEN the reed switch then the magnetic field of course shuts down and?
3) reed switch closes back to it's natural state
wash, rinse and repeat ;-)
I also see no reason just for testing that we can't put a standard aa or whatever size battery necessary to the coil to just give it more amps to create a stronger magnetic field. Just put it in line like this drawing. If the reed switch is switching on and off then the 9v battery and the coil battery should not discharge. Well they would but many times per second and at the same time recharge many times per second.
Bill, I think there should be no connection the core. The core is just to make a stronger magnetic field as in a normal electromagnet.
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I was wondering if all the layers must be producing galvanic reaction in order for this generator to work.
I have some 100 ft wire, but it is telephone wire and plastic covered.
Since I don't have any NC reed switches and the weeds are whaked I am thinking again.
I think I will make a 100 ft coil. I will wind the first row with cloth around the copper wire, then continue making many layers with the plastic covered copper.
I will guess how long the copper should be and strip the wire that much then continue with the wire as it is.
If this works, I should get enough voltaic to start up the magnetism, and then all the turns should give some real voltage that can then be transferred to a secondary.
Any ideas about this? Is this another dead end?
Think I should end up with some more voltaic too?
I will start with only the innermost coil cotton wrapped then I will see about the outer, I guess.
jeanna
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I was wondering if all the layers must be producing galvanic reaction in order for this generator to work.
I have some 100 ft wire, but it is telephone wire and plastic covered.
Since I don't have any NC reed switches and the weeds are whaked I am thinking again.
I think I will make a 100 ft coil. I will wind the first row with cloth around the copper wire, then continue making many layers with the plastic covered copper.
I will guess how long the copper should be and strip the wire that much then continue with the wire as it is.
If this works, I should get enough voltaic to start up the magnetism, and then all the turns should give some real voltage that can then be transferred to a secondary.
Any ideas about this? Is this another dead end?
Think I should end up with some more voltaic too?
I will start with only the innermost coil cotton wrapped then I will see about the outer, I guess.
jeanna
@jeanna
The more galvanic response, the more amperage which is what is needed to activate the NC reed switch. If you have layers that are not having galvanic response because of insulating coverings then it's only going to reduce the amperage which is going to reduce the electromagnetism. The first step is to get the reed switch oscillating then we can have FUN with the secondary to up the voltage to something more useful :) Today I ordered a bunch of NC reed switches from Meder from 10-60 AT so I hope to start in a week with the testing.
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@jeanna
The more galvanic response, the more amperage which is what is needed to activate the NC reed switch.
I did not find that to be true with my coils. I got a voltage on the first row and it stayed pretty close to that after every row of winds. Only one of my coils ever showed any amperage to mention. 18milliamps. that was in the kitchen before I added the secondary. After the secondary it was like the rest - a little higher but still below 1 milliamp.
reduce the electromagnetism.
What I was thinking was that with a sizeable copper coil with some magnetism, I would have a better chance of some ac voltage. As long as the magnetism that is there reaches through the coil I produce, it should work. I would still make it bifilar bimetal, just not cloth covered after the first row. Well that is my thinking.
The first step is to get the reed switch oscillating
That statement sounds like you already have a working primary since otherwize the primary would be your first step.
So, since I assume that is true,
How about sharing the stats on your primary with us. ( I remember you were taking your first one apart, but I don't remember the second one??)
Today I ordered a bunch of NC reed switches from Meder from 10-60 AT so I hope to start in a week with the testing.
Did you call them? I didn't see NO or NC on their stats lists. which ones did you order, how much?
any pics for us? you are good at drawing; how about a pic of your coil. we like pics. :D
thank you,
jeanna
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@jeanna:
Voltage should be constant if you use more or less wire because it's dependent on the difference in potential between the 2 metals we are using. The amperage should increase as we make the electrodes (wires) bigger. Have you measured the volt and amp output of 6fe-10cu or 5cu-10fe with the battery immersed in water? What about adding some salt just for testing purposes? What are you using to isolate the 2 wires? Just cotton? Are the 2 wires on the bifilar in close proximity to each other as they are wound around the coil? We have to make sure the battery is a well constructed battery but until we oscillate it by using the reed switch switched on and off with the electromagnet created by the battery then it will just be a normal battery and decay quickly as the anode is consumed.
Today I will start with some testing before my NC reed switches arrive. I got a roll of 2.1mm galvanized wire and I already have some 1.5mm and 4mm copper. Not sure what effect the galvanizing will have but thought I would give it a try. I still need to get the silk or cotton tubing.
The amps on the secondary I think will always be the same as the primary. The secondary should just increase the volts.
What I was thinking was that with a sizeable copper coil with some magnetism, I would have a better chance of some ac voltage. As long as the magnetism that is there reaches through the coil I produce, it should work. I would still make it bifilar bimetal, just not cloth covered after the first row. Well that is my thinking.
When you say AC you mean from the secondary right? I think if you only partially do the primary as he indicates in the patent then it's just going to be a weak battery and a weak battery = weak electromagnet. That is why I was even suggesting to pump up the earth battery buy adding inline a conventional battery. Just to increase the electromagnetism but really the solution is to make the ns primary big enough to become a usable electromagnet. I really think we should forget about the secondary until we have a functioning (according to the patent) primary. It needs to just exhibit enough magnetism to flip the switch. The trick will be to test if this is happening. I don't think a light in line will work because there might not be enough volts to light it. We can't put a meter on because that will effect the reed switch since we basically would be putting in parallel a resistor (the meter). Some energy will be lost by doing that and we need as much as we can get. The only thing I can think of is an inductive meter but that is what the secondary sort of is. Well winding a crude secondary may be the cheapest easiest way if you don't have an inductive meter. From the secondary we can test the Hz to see if it's oscillating and also the voltage and amps. All isolated so to have zero effect on the primary circuit.
No I don't have a working primary. I'm waiting for my nc reed switches and silk or cotton tubing. Will order the tubing today but I don't live in the US so things take a little longer to receive :-/
I emailed them and convinced them it was for a big project (could be right?) :-) and they are sending me 10 samples with various AT ratings. I will start with an AT 10 but I think it just needs to be sensitive enough to function. I think the Hz will not be effected whether it's an AT 10 or AT 60 rating. I promised to by 1000 units if it works in the project. I want to make a lot of these batteries because it would be very useful in the very remote region I live in :) I can email you the pdf. I think is too large to upload here. The part number is KSK-1C90U-1520 which is 15-20AT rating.
A drawing I thought I uploaded here yesterday. It's similar to another one I uploaded a couple of days ago but uses a reed switch and also has the battery in the picture but that can just be removed. Just an idea for testing.
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@ storre:
DO NOT ADD SALT!!!! This has been tested by me and.....it did nothing but almost destroy my first cell. I added just a pinch to the water in my sink and everything went to 0 and stayed there for many days. Some folks gave me helpful suggestions like putting the cell in hot water to dissolve the salt, which I did. It took many baths in very hot water and several days for it to come back. It never fully recovered but, it works pretty decent now.
I have added a little distilled white vinegar as suggested by someone else and the mA's went through the roof. At least for me anyway. I was able to get it up from 20 mA to about 80 with a little vinegar. This result is short lived however, it goes away after about 3 days outside in the ground.
Just wanted to pass this on. Hope it helps.
Bill
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@Bill
RIGHT do NOT add salt. I did that too. It didn't destroy mine as it did yours, but the readings went down ??? as I added more salt. curious but not to be done at first.
Vinegar makes acidulated environment. I am sure he has warned us very clearly to stay neutral. I suppose if you have a coil you don't mind destroying go ahead, but I think it will polarize it because that is what NS says it will do.
I am glad you posted, I didn't get the message that there was a post today so I missed storre's post.
@storre,
I am sorry I didn't get back earlier. I am visiting a friend in 20 minutes so I can post this and go. I will check in when I return.
My meter that read amps and uamps is broken. I got it to do something today but I think the display is gone. so I cannot report on amps anymore.
I have plenty of primarys to use. This one I am making with just the beginning being cloth covered is number 15. Number 11 is my best. I have readings on it and can go from them. It has a small secondary on it etc.
There are 2 others. One that broke and one that is a lot like that one but only a primary.
I was actually getting readings off the one that broke. I assume the next one will be similar.
I downloaded the pdf. thank you for the item number. This makes it a lot easier to look at.
As far a amperage is concerned, I hope something works. So far the amperage is very low. I am flying around the outside edges of the box. I have next to no training in this so I don't know where the box is! so, I will try this. You are at a different place from me. Make a primary. make another one make 2 matched primarys. then you will have something to work with.
I don't know about the cloth. silk dries quicker but in audio applications it has a pure sound. and cotton has a warm sound. (that is what one audio site said.) Pure means no noise. warm means noise. not raunchy noise, but color and that is additional overtones. I do not know how that translates to electronic frequency. pure overtones ought to get us a clearer resonance when we find the resonance. The coil that is so good but that broke was made with silk.
It is the only one whose secondary gave out volts. The rest - like that vid on youtube, where the guy says I can't get it to do anything but this is the secondary" then drops it into the ground, don't even make a .001 happen on the meter.
I won't even check this for sense. I am late
jeanna
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Thanks Jeanna for the brochure information.
did anyone catch the part about the telegraph setup making the make/break connections.
I thought i would make a change to my coil and ended up with a short. so no more coil i tried to save it but it's now in pieces. my next coil i hope will be as good as this one was.
i need more than 1 coil for my next set of tests. i would like to have at least 3 coils. I wanted to test them in series. but i just cant think of the best way to wire the coils since they have 4 connections.
I was able to use 4 water cells in series connected to my coil and had the coil up to 1.46 vdc 2.4 vac and .24 ma
my coil tested at .58 vdc .6 vac and 6.75 ma before using the wet cells so i can't or don't know why the ma's went down to where they tested at in a series configuration.
lol
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Thanks Jeanna for the brochure information.
did anyone catch the part about the telegraph setup making the make/break connections.
You're welcome, and also thanks to RL for taking the time to scan and email it to me!
I think the reed switch mimics the telegraph thing, doesn't it?
I am so unschooled in this, I haven't ever seen a telegraph set up nor touched one, so I am not sure.
good question.
i would like to have at least 3 coils. I wanted to test them in series. but i just cant think of the best way to wire the coils since they have 4 connections.
Good plan.
They do work in series. They lose a little bit, which is probably really interesting but I don't know what.
With 3 in series like so:
meter-cu | fe-next cell-cu | fe-next cell-cu | fe-meter
They add up; but, there is a loss of about 0.1volt. So .54 +.35 + .25 = 1.04v instead of 1.14v...
I suppose since the cu and fe wires aren't actually connected except by magnetic field, this is very productive....
I was able to use 4 water cells in series connected to my coil and had the coil up to 1.46 vdc 2.4 vac and .24 ma
my coil tested at .58 vdc .6 vac and 6.75 ma before using the wet cells so i can't or don't know why the ma's went down to where they tested at in a series configuration.
How curious!
Meters do odd things to our coils, but then the coils do odd things on their own.
How did you connect the coil? I mean which wires did you choose?
Good work, Pardon
thank you for telling us all this. It really helps,
jeanna
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here was my set up for series
house ground to stubb coil bolt to water cell minus rod also to the meter. plus rod to next water cell minus. plus side to minus of next water cell. next cell plus rod to either the 5 or 6 of the stubb coil plus the meter connection.
i believe that was the setup i used to get the voltage i measured.
also i looked at patent no. 887357 again but this time i copied the battery circuit to my own drawing, it dawned on me at that time the stubbs circuit looks like a APM circuit only stubbs used no caps. but he used very long lenghts of antenna wire. the wire being very long would charge the battery maybe up several thousand volts i think. and if so the secondary would have to be made to adjust the voltage level you would want to use.
this is just my opinion
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@ storre:
DO NOT ADD SALT!!!! This has been tested by me and.....it did nothing but almost destroy my first cell. I added just a pinch to the water in my sink and everything went to 0 and stayed there for many days. Some folks gave me helpful suggestions like putting the cell in hot water to dissolve the salt, which I did. It took many baths in very hot water and several days for it to come back. It never fully recovered but, it works pretty decent now.
I have added a little distilled white vinegar as suggested by someone else and the mA's went through the roof. At least for me anyway. I was able to get it up from 20 mA to about 80 with a little vinegar. This result is short lived however, it goes away after about 3 days outside in the ground.
Just wanted to pass this on. Hope it helps.
Bill
Hi Bill!
Any good electrolyte should increase the mA. I have some ionic water that I'm anxious to try once I get a couple of parts I'm waiting on. Lemon juice should work also. The fact that your batter died after 3 days is exactly what I would expect to happen. This bifilar battery without the make/break circuit is just a normal battery so will gradually discharge. The fast opening and closing of the circuit seems to charge and discharge the battery 100s of times per second or at whatever frequency the switching is happening. That I think depends on the length of wire used in the primary. Longer wire might (my guess) cause the magnet field to build more slowly so the bouncing back and forth of the ions (due to the opening and closing of the reed switch) and this would determine the Hz of the primary. The secondary is just a convenient way to tap this oscillating power without interfering with the operation of the primary.
So we need to concentrate on making a strong primary but have to incorporate the reed switch so that it pulses on and off. The magnetic field needs to turn on and off. Maybe the frequency is important for the action not to decay but I'm guessing there. He doesn't mention anything about that in the patent and conversely he says the primary can be of any size. Bigger battery = higher mA so we have to reach a threshold to be able to open the NC reed switch and start the oscillating.
I did this last night with a home made reed switch and was able to get the action going. It resulted in very quick sparking action but I didn't put on a secondary to measure the Hz. Reed switches will be much easier to deal with though.
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I did this last night with a home made reed switch and was able to get the action going. It resulted in very quick sparking action but I didn't put on a secondary to measure the Hz. Reed switches will be much easier to deal with though.
Storre,
Would you be willing to give instructions for making this homemade reed switch.
I have some tiny NO switches that I bought.
So, as YOU pointed out I cannot use them for this battery, but I tested them all for magfield change. All were unaffected by the mag field of my coils.
They were all effected by a store bought ferrous magnet.
They all showed no circuit resistance (no ohms, as in infinite) while open but whan the magnet came close the resistance went to show the ohms showing that the switch had closed.
But not with my NS coil orimary. even touching the base didn't close the switch. I know it is magnetic, but not enough for these tiny switches.
I will try with another cpil, but I would like to know how you went about making your home made one. What metal and what you used to hold it and a pic as in photograph of the homemade switch ;) , if possible.
Thank you,
jeanna
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I just had a thought about this low power contact thing
We don't seem to have enough magnetic flux to activate the switch .
but we do have enough current to charge a cap relatively quickly
why not make a real small coil .......and mount it on a flexable metal " reed "
then connect it so its magnetic field attracts the stubblfield coils magnetic field as you charge a LARGE cap .
It SHOULD multiply the effective pull that can be harnessed for the switching .......
gary
Edit
it might work to place a reed switch between the stubblefield coil and the small coil ..........or better yet .........place 2 stubblfiled coils " head to head " with a reed switch in between hopefully they will work in a " push pull " mode
.
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it might work to place a reed switch between the stubblefield coil and the small coil ..........or better yet .........place 2 stubblfiled coils " head to head " with a reed switch in between hopefully they will work in a " push pull " mode
.
I am not sure where the other end of the caps would be connected .
maybe to the opposite 10 of the opposite coil ........
I am allso not sure if the reed switch should be in between the coils and the caps ........or by itself
gary
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I have been thinking of something for a while
I have been wondering how Tesla Stubblefield and others of their time made the discoverys that they made .
Today we can measure voltage to a thousanth of a volt with ease .......
We can measure current to a fraction of a milliamp
All we need to do is buy a multimeter .
I really doubt if Tesla or Stubblefield could measure these things as accurately as we can today .
SO .......if they couldn't measure as well as we can ........how did they do the things that they did?
In my opinion they probably worked with larger " quantitys "
If they were studying resonnce they probably worked with farads .......rather than microfarads .
They probably worked with large caps and coils to understand the effect ..........then fine tuned the system to be more efficient and smaller .
gary
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I have been thinking of something for a while
I have been wondering how Tesla Stubblefield and others of their time made the discoverys that they made .
gary
I think about this a lot, too.
One suggestion made to me a long time ago was the hi impedance speaker.
It works every time. I can hear minute amounts of current or voltage. I am unable to quantify it except by comparison.
My speaker came from a modem, but you can buy one from RS for $5 or less. I soldered some jumper sized leads to either post and I can hear the power.
A 3 volt battery is noisy. The copper to zinc probe in the ground that was .7vdc I could faintly hear as a sound that came not from the zinc but over where the speaker was.
If I put this speaker on the cu to bolt it is clearly louder than from the cu to the fe wire.
I also heard they used a wheatstone bridge to determine what they had. I had to look it up. It is a modified compass/galvanometer. I have used that, only mine is very plain. This compass/galvanometer graduated into the ammeter, so it isn't too far off.
Well, Gary,
That is all I have found so far to answer this question.
Anybody else?
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I just really want to know how anybody is planning to mount a switch. That is the reason I asked storre for details.
If he did it, he has dealt with the fact that it is already heavier on the top and has wires in the air and no platform to rest a switch. Little narley things like that.
jeanna
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I just really want to know how anybody is planning to mount a switch. That is the reason I asked storre for details.
If he did it, he has dealt with the fact that it is already heavier on the top and has wires in the air and no platform to rest a switch. Little narley things like that.
jeanna
I think with Tesla and Stubblefield they didn't have quite the same " laws "
I really think that the foundtion of the mindset that OU is impossible was put in place as Tesla was blacklisted .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I can see how it would be difficult to mount any extra hardware on your coils
You might look for some kind of angle .... I was thinking angle iron would be ok ........but a strong non conductor would be better .
A piece of angle iron around 2.5 in long with 2 holes drilled in it that the right places would would make a pretty good clamp ....... just find a couple bolts the right size ........maybe wrap an extra layer or 2 or insulation around where the clamp would be to make sure it doesn't damage anything .
one of the nice things about this way of doing it is .......the clamp can be used over and over ........if things don't quite work out .
gary
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Here is just a quick mockup using NS patent. I plan to use use stiff wire so I can adjust the position to be further or closer to the bolt top. Where do you think the field would be the strongest? Also the points that the 10s enter the end cap could be changed to make wiring of the reed switch easier. There is no reason I can as to why they can't enter together using two small holes drilled next to each other or even an oblong hole. As long as the bifilar never touches itself then it's ok. This way the 10s could be on the same size and the 5 and 6 could be on the opposite side since you will use one of each to connect the reed switch. I've tested the reed switch function by making a standard electromagnetic coil wrapped around an iron tube instead of solid bolt. Then I hooked an external battery - to one end of the coil and hooked the other end of the coil to a metal bolt that slipped in the cylinder. Then positioned the positive terminal of the battery so that the bolt when down because of gravity would touch the top of the battery + which would complete the circuit, turn on the electromagnet and pull up the bolt like a solenoid. Then of course fall instantly back down since lifting up the bolt would disconnect the circuit. I just wanted to see what the action was like. It was so fast that you could just hear it vibrating and sparking at the same time. Of course this is not free energy but it was just to see the action which will be the same if we make the ns primary big enough to open the red switch. I think it will be easy because you can get reed switches a hell of a lot more sensitive that what I created which was lifting up a hung of metal that wasn't even magnetic itself. It's possible NS did something similar but making it much more light and sensitive. Even though I felt mine was oscillating many times per second. Not 100Hz I think but faster than I could perceive.
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. Of course this is not free energy but it was just to see the action which will be the same if we make the ns primary big enough to open the red switch. I think it will be easy because you can get reed switches a hell of a lot more sensitive that what I created which was lifting up a hung of metal that wasn't even magnetic itself. It's possible NS did something similar but making it much more light and sensitive. Even though I felt mine was oscillating many times per second. Not 100Hz I think but faster than I could perceive.
Storre,
In a way this is engouraging but it is also discouraging.
It is nice to hear that you were able to perceive that bit of oscillation. in your coil.
On the other hand with the tiniest reed switch that the company had seen, I wasn't able to get it to respond to the mag field of my real primary coil. So, that is pretty discouraging.
I may post a pic of one of my coils to show you what I am asking for when I ask for a pic of something. This drawing is ultra clear, but I wasn't confused about your intent. I just wanted to SEE your work around. (BTW, I do not want to be a pest, but the drawing shows incorrectly which one is cu and fe. I think we ought to be very accurate here because NS choice of terms is tricky. The fe is 6 and the cu is 5)
Here is a coil that is called 9. I took pics of this as I was making it . It has 394 turns of red mag wire under that white plastic. It was more productive before the secondary went on but even tho there is small voltage there are .9mA across these terminals 5 and 6. (I am rewetting it now, I think it will be a lot better in a few minutes.)I used a yogurt lid for a washer. Also note the elect tape around the bolt head to keep from shorting the wires.
jeanna
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@jeanna:
What type of reed switch did you use? NC or NO and what AT rating was it?
I thought I had the wires marked correctly but didn't look back at the patent specs to make sure. In the end though it doesn't make a difference in the functioning of it. Copper should be 5 and Iron 6 as he specifies in line 80 of the patent. The copper wire 5 being incased in cotton or silk.
Just imagine the wires stretched out so it resembles more of a conventional battery and I think you will be able to visualize it better. Something like this drawing I've attached.
This pic you show of your coil#9 what is the primary made like? I think we really need to concentrate on getting the primary working first to activate the reed switch. Make sure you use a NC reed switch connecting one end to copper and the other to iron making sure they are connecting at the opposite ends of the bifilar. Also make sure there is NO metal to metal contact anywhere throughout the coil.
Also the 4 wires I see coming out of the (primary?) seems pretty small. What size wire and how many turns did you use on the primary and what did you wrap the copper in?
I wish I my reed switches were here already so I can stop typing and start building like you :) They arrive June 8 with the silk and cotton tubes also :-)
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@Jeanna
Your primary coil is much too small weight and size wise for the readings your going for. You need bigger wire to get readings on par i used 12 gauge bare copper and 10 or 8 guage steel cable. Thats huge compared to those little wires and the surface area accounts for the diff, my cell is approx the same dimensions 2 layers about that long but reads .9 v 18 ma so the current is what you setup is lacking and when you beef up the wires a bit you should see more of an electromagnet effect. ;)
@storre
It would have to be nc so the short initiated the electromagnetic pull hence pulling the reed away from the contact breaking the connection. ;D
Joe
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@Jeanna
Your primary coil is much too small weight and size wise for the readings your going for. You need bigger wire to get readings on par i used 12 gauge bare copper and 10 or 8 guage steel cable. Thats huge compared to those little wires and the surface area accounts for the diff, my cell is approx the same dimensions 2 layers about that long but reads .9 v 18 ma so the current is what you setup is lacking and when you beef up the wires a bit you should see more of an electromagnet effect. ;)
@storre
It would have to be nc so the short initiated the electromagnetic pull hence pulling the reed away from the contact breaking the connection. ;D
Joe
Yes I know it should be NC. Been saying that all along. Just wasn't sure how to make it in the picture since it could be in either state at the moment. In the picture just consider it accurate for the instant the EM field builds enough to open it ;)
Also I agree with you about the coil. There is a threshold of mA that we have to reach before it will have enough EM to open the reed switch. Things don't always scale up and down and still work. I think this will work much bigger but going smaller has it's limits unless we use super sensitive reed switches but then what's the point of generating 2 mA haha.
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Quote from: Localjoe on Today at 08:29:16 AM
Yes thank you Joe,
I just grabbed this to demonstrate what I meant.
As always a good thing happened.
I just asked about AC generation bottom line the other day, and I learned that
the speed of the movement of the magnet produces the magnetic field. where
The diameter of the coil produces the amps.
I am sure the girth of the wire comes in there too because too skinny wire cannot allow enough strawberries to move etc...
@jeanna:
What type of reed switch did you use? NC or NO and what AT rating was it?
In my resistance experiment, I used the 3 sizes or NO that I bought last month. There is no point in soldering them on anywhere BUT I was able to use them to see if any of my coils were big and strong enough to make a magnetic field strong enough to close the switch. I was holding the switch between 2 clips of my meter connected to read the ohms of resistance in the switch. I needed a store bought ferrous magnet to close the switch.
Copper should be 5 and Iron 6 as he specifies in line 80 of the patent. The copper wire 5 being incased in cotton or silk.
Thank you. The ONLY reason is for someone who has not made enough of these to have the numbering system in mind. It could confuse. - thats all.
Something like this drawing I've attached.
Your drawings are very clear and fine for explaining. I guess you don't own a digital camera. It is OK.
This pic you show of your coil#9---- I think we really need to concentrate on getting the primary working first to activate the reed switch.
Yes, this is the reason I have made so many. I want to get the best little one then I can make a big one. -this is just my way. I am such an experimenter, I would have become discouraged from the cost and difficulty of making 14 coils that were different just to find the best combo. This way the cost has been small and the time and aggravation to my fingers ;) little.
So, with that said,
Also make sure there is NO metal to metal contact anywhere throughout the coil.
This is very important and tricky at the bottoms of the coils. The top of the bolt is wrapped with electric tape. You can see where I peeled it away to make testing at the bolt easier.
What size wire and how many turns did you use on the primary and what did you wrap the copper in?
Very skinny wire, but available in 100 ft lengths. 24 gauge
cu wire wrapped in cotton.
It is on a
1/2 inch bolt
6 layers 24 gauge both cu and galvanized fe wires
0.620 VDC
0.8 VAC
10.25 mAmp
These figures are from the coil primary #9 when it was just finished, and BEFORE I added the secondaryary and before it went into the ground.
After I put it into the ground the voltage went to the
500's for 2 weeks then after
April 14 they entered the 400's and
April 16 dropped to 223vdc
As the voltage went down the milliamps moved to microamps.
You can follow the progress on those charts I posted on Earthbatteries/Stubblefield from around that time.
I am sure at least some of it is from the coil drying out. But I was surprised yesterday when I soaked it in the jar that it didn't go any higher than it did.
so I can stop typing and start building like you
yes, it is fun, even though I don't have the answer yet.
I recommend that you build one or three. It will serve you well when you get those switches, I am positive.
I have always wished the other folks would build a couple more to share experiences, but no one seemed to see the value. so, it is OK just my way. ;)
I changed the name of that pic so I will post it now. (the secondary is slipped over it and is red 394 turns)
jeanna
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Your drawings are very clear and fine for explaining. I guess you don't own a digital camera. It is OK.
I have a very good one that does video also but it's easier for me to do the drawings for now. Once I have an actual coil constructed I will upload the pictures.
Yes, this is the reason I have made so many. I want to get the best little one then I can make a big one. -this is just my way. I am such an experimenter, I would have become discouraged from the cost and difficulty of making 14 coils that were different just to find the best combo. This way the cost has been small and the time and aggravation to my fingers little.
I think the coil needs to be a minimum size (don't ask me what the minimum is) ;-) to be able to create a strong enough magnetic field to operate the reed switch. Until it reaches that point then it's just a week battery not much good for testing this patent. Just from the drawings on the patent (assuming he was doing them to scale of a working model) they are using good size wire so the electrodes end up being large enough to create a useable magnetic field to open the reed switch.
This is very important and tricky at the bottoms of the coils. The top of the bolt is wrapped with electric tape. You can see where I peeled it away to make testing at the bolt easi
I don't see any reason for testing at the bolt. That is just going to serve to help the magnetic field created by the coil. There should be no electrical contact to it anyway. If you look at the patent drawings closely you can see how he was careful where the wires entered and exited the coils. He did it in a way that the exited directly so they didn't touch any of the previous windings. I think this is very important for the magnetic field to function.
I am sure at least some of it is from the coil drying out. But I was surprised yesterday when I soaked it in the jar that it didn't go any higher than it did.
Just what I would expect from a normal battery. It's not recharging because it's not oscillating because it doesn't have the reed switch. Nice to see the numbers go up a lot when you put it in the ground. I assume the numbers before you put it in the ground where from a completely dry coil?
yes, it is fun, even though I don't have the answer yet.
Well my intuition tells me we need to make bigger coils. The amount turns you have is ok but we need more overall metal so fatter wires. I'm going to start with 4mm (6 gauge) for the copper and 2.1mm (12 gauge) for the iron. Maybe I will run the iron as a double wire to make it equal (more or less) to the copper. Couldn't find 6 gauge iron but twisting 2 of the irons together or putting the silk tube over the 2 iron instead of the 1 copper would work too and make them as one wire.
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Nice to see the numbers go up a lot when you put it in the ground. I assume the numbers before you put it in the ground where from a completely dry coil?
well, no, They went down 0.05 as soon as I put it into the ground. Did I say that wrong? I will correct it if I can.
The numbers were all made from reading moist coils.
twisting 2 of the irons together or putting the silk tube over the 2 iron instead of the 1 copper would work too and make them as one wire.
He evidently had some experience that informed him NOT to wrap the iron. He says it can be done in the galvanic discussion, but he says he wants the iron to be bare to be better exposed to the action of the electrolyte and at the same time to intensify the magnetic field.
I would suggest that we stay away from covering the iron just to be sure. I think twisting them together is the best plan. (and wrap the copper wire.)
Good luck. I am looking forward to your results.
thank you,
jeanna
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He evidently had some experience that informed him NOT to wrap the iron. He says it can be done in the galvanic discussion, but he says he wants the iron to be bare to be better exposed to the action of the electrolyte and at the same time to intensify the magnetic field.
I would suggest that we stay away from covering the iron just to be sure. I think twisting them together is the best plan. (and wrap the copper wire.)
I would agree but also not sure how much difference it makes because in the same paragraph of the patent he says: "While the iron wire 6 is preferably bare of naked for the reasons stated, this wire may also be insulated without destroying the operativeness of the battery?"
He seems to indicate it's the battery part of the patent that is not effected but by his previous wording it seems the magnetic field would be effected. Not sure though how wrapping the iron with cotton or silk would effect the magnetic field.
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Has anyone here tried galvanized wire instead of pure iron? I'm wondering what effect it will have on the galvanic action.
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Has anyone here tried galvanized wire instead of pure iron? I'm wondering what effect it will have on the galvanic action.
I have tried both.
Most folks here use galvanized.
the galvanized wire gives a stronger battery effect as you would expect.
---
I have been looking for sources of bare copper wire in 100 ft lengths.
Does anybody have a source they have tried? I am asking for experience now.
How long did it take, Was there a minimum? etc.
Does the same place also sell mag wire?
jeanna
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I have tried both.
Most folks here use galvanized.
the galvanized wire gives a stronger battery effect as you would expect.
---
I have been looking for sources of bare copper wire in 100 ft lengths.
Does anybody have a source they have tried? I am asking for experience now.
How long did it take, Was there a minimum? etc.
Does the same place also sell mag wire?
jeanna
Hey,
Any hardware store or electrical fixture store should have ROMEX its the stuff your house is wired with. Theres 3 copper wires inside a white sheath. 2 are insulated with plastic 1 is bare. I would recommend that in 12 gauge . They should cut you whatever length you want. ;)
Joe
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that in 12 gauge . They should cut you whatever length you want. ;)
Joe
Thanks Joe.
I had no idea one was bare
jeanna
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Thanks Joe.
I had no idea one was bare
jeanna
Where I'm at they don't use romex. I had to buy a 100M roll that is plastic insulated and then strip it by hand! Got a nasty blister doing it :-/ so next time will try to make something so I can slice it lengthwise some way.
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Wow!:
A lot of posts. I will have to go back and read as I have been busy working. (Thank God)
Joe is right about the romex....not expensive and easy to strip lengthwise with a simple stripping tool that cost about $1.00. The other wires inside, white and black, can be stripped the usual way but it will take some effort to do so. 12 gauge is some pretty heavy wire so it should give good amps. I like this idea. This is about 2 times the thickness I have been using. Once you strip off the outside sheathing (using the cheap tool) I think it would be possible to use something like a carpet knife, or something similar, to carefully slice the insulation lengthwise a section at a time. This should be faster than using a regular stripping tool and having to slide the stripped insulation all the way down the wire as you go.
Great idea Joe!
Bill
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Hi Bill!
Hopefully a lot of posts = a lot of progress :)
What is this wire stripping tool you refer to. I can't get romex where I'm at but have standard 1, 2 and 4mm wire that is insulated normally. Would love love to find a way to strip it other than with a pocket knife :)
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Thanks Joe.
I had no idea one was bare
jeanna
If you are buying romax maake sure you check the gage of all the wires before you buy
For some applications they are allowed to make the ground wire ( the bare one ) smaller
gary
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Where I'm at they don't use romex. I had to buy a 100M roll that is plastic insulated and then strip it by hand! Got a nasty blister doing it :-/ so next time will try to make something so I can slice it lengthwise some way.
Storre
Romex is just a name it is commonly called ........what you are using is probably the same ........ it is the way houses have been wired here in the USAA for well over 50 years
3 wires together in one casing ..........the ground wire usually bare .
gary
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Yes I know it. I use to live in the US but in Brazil they use individual wires and feed them through conduit. It's nice in that you can add wires later and change things around without tearing down walls. Maybe they also use romex in office building construction but in houses what is typical is one neutral and one phase and NO ground! Even all appliances you buy here don't have grounding. I wired my house with all american plugs with ground but not using romex. I wonder if there is any other application for bare copper wire. Bare iron was easy to find but all copper I can think of will have a plastic insulation. Well it should be easy enough with a good stripper to take it off.
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@ All
sorry i forgot to mention the stripper for the romex, im so use to the local lumber yard just handing me one as a kickdown when i go to pick up wire i thought it was like something they gave free everywhere for it. :-[ Its just a little piece of metal bent in a u with a prong sticking inward so when you squeeze it strips the coating then put one end in a vice grip or use your hands to pull.
Joe
The pic below is the closest i could find to describe the steel cable im using heres at link and discription
Stainless Steel Cable (Type 304)
http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/wirerope_cable/wirerope-intro.html (http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/wirerope_cable/wirerope-intro.html)
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Yes I know it. I use to live in the US but in Brazil they use individual wires and feed them through conduit. It's nice in that you can add wires later and change things around without tearing down walls. Maybe they also use romex in office building construction but in houses what is typical is one neutral and one phase and NO ground! Even all appliances you buy here don't have grounding. I wired my house with all american plugs with ground but not using romex. I wonder if there is any other application for bare copper wire. Bare iron was easy to find but all copper I can think of will have a plastic insulation. Well it should be easy enough with a good stripper to take it off.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004W4Y3 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004W4Y3) Just a thought.
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This post is about magnetism and looking for/at magnetic fields.
It is my understanding that a magnetic field going first one way then "collapsing" and going the other way creates the oscillations and as a result of this change, some current each time goes in opposite directions in or around the wire each time the magnetic field changes.
(Joe found this current as a voltage reading early on when he quickly shorted the wires.)
By putting a 3 volt NiMH battery on the various leads of our NS generator (NSG), I can see a very quick change of North-South on my compass.
If I switch the leads to the opposite direction on the NSG the compass will snap sharply to the opposite polarity.
So, I think this shows that the effect of switching polarities is there in the configuration of this device (NSG).
When the NS generator is wet, there is a constant polarity. It is a bit different from the one using the external battery.
I am not going to describe how it is different because, what happens is that it stays the same once it is wet. This is the same thing that happens when I use an external battery. Once the polarity shifts, it stays and continues to go that one way.
All of this points to the reed switch or relay being the right way to procede.
MY question to everbody, is , Is there a better way to see what this is? more definitive, is perhaps what I am looking for. quantitative would be nice...
My uncertantity comes from my thought that there ought to be SOME reaction on a compass if the field is reversing.
But I do NOT see any change
If I short the wires the field should go the other way for as long as they are shorted.
But it doesn't.
Am I wrong about this? Should the magnetic field stay the same wether or not the wires are shorted?
Galvanic action creates magnetic field - mag field produces (non galvanic) electric field - this moves strawberries and therefore produces a magnetic field.
This I just described, would not necessarily change the polarity while still using induction from galvanic to non galvanic electricity. This would make the moisture necessary, but produce a direct current.
Any thoughts?
jeanna
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jeanna,
" it is my understanding that a magnetic field going first one way then "collapsing" and going the other way creates the oscillations and as a result of this change, some current each time goes in opposite directions in or around the wire each time the magnetic field changes."
Almost but no cigar :). The field has two poles relative to the direction you wound the coils and the polarity of the initial energy. So Think about it like this You Initiate the field by shorting the wires this creates a growing "donught/ sphere with hole in middle(vertical axis)" the poles are on the top and bottom of the holes. When it collapses rapidly from making and breaking the connection it induces alternating current in the secondary winds.
Search static em field collapse and then search rotating em feild theres huge differences and this should be enjoyable reading for ya. ;)
Joe
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You Initiate the field by shorting the wires
When it collapses rapidly from making and breaking the connection it induces alternating current in the secondary winds.
Joe
OK so
on - collapse - on - collapse etc.
but won't the magnetic field change each time it goes from on to collapse and back on again?
And, wont the strawberries move in the opposite direction every time the mag field changes?
And since I can see a change in the compass when It changes with the polarity change of a battery, then, I want to see a change on the compass when the field collapses because the wires are no longer shorted.
and I do not. (not even a twinge.)
jeanna
(hyperphysics at gsu is my favorite place to get me straightened out again when I am confused.)
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Reversing the polarity on the battery I don't see as the same as the MF collapsing. When you short the battery the energy is moving forward and then when you break the short (because of the magnetic field) then it bounces back but I wouldn't see that the same as reversing the magnetic field to the other polarity because you change the polarity by reversing a battery.
BTW, I think if you had a compass that would respond fast enough you would see it going to north and staying there because it's creating a right hand magnetic field and then collapsing (not reversing) the field. So it would go to north on the first shorting and then stay there on subsequent shortings.
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it bounces back but I wouldn't see that the same as reversing the magnetic field to the other polarity because you change the polarity by reversing a battery.
I am sorry. I stated that poorly. I don't think so either.
I only think that the compass is able to show this collapse by the reversal of needle or maybe not FULL reversal but a change that corresponds with the collapse. (If the magnetic field collapses then the N arrow which indicates direction of magnetic field would have to register a change when the field is gone. )
By checking with a battery, I know that it can fully reverse and quickly using this configuration of wires on a "dry" cell.
collapsing (not reversing) the field.
I will study this more if I can. I thought it reversed when it collapsed.
So it would go to north on the first shorting and then stay there on subsequent shortings.
What I am thinking is that the soft core is really important. If the mag field holds up for any period of time, there won't be enough change to induce a current. (because change in a mag field is what induces a current. right?)
thank you,
jeanna
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i am testing my wire differently then i did before. i want to start with the best volts and amps before winding my coil. so i have been testing different iron wire before i start winding it.
i had some spare time today and i found the following. it may be a little off topic but not much
please turn on sound if you have it
http://www.nbstubblefield.com
http://www.smart90.com/tvimagazine/2005/2705/107GrandpaNat&Firewire01.htm
http://www.smart90.com/dvdstore/vra4012movie
http://smart90.com/firewire/
here is some interesting items i found at the above sites
By 1890, Stubblefield discovered there were several methods by which articulate speech could be transmitted between two given points without connecting wires, or wireless telephony, as it is was
popularly termed at the time. He sent voice through space by modulating the continuous electromagnetic wave -- with a Berliner microphone, (the transmitter) - leading to the antenna.
Stubblefield published an extraordinary brochure in 1898 to attract investors who had expressed interest in consolidating a small corporation around his work. In this brochure, Stubblefield insisted that power for his device was not generated in the cell. He calmly stated that the cell received its surplus energy from the earth. In a less discussed portion of the brochure, Stubblefield stated that
"electrotherapeutic" devices had been developed from his earth battery.
3. Editor's Note / By 1892, Nathan's vibrating phone evoluted to an RF hand held wireless telephone with an antenna, that could transmit voice through the atmosphere to a companion receiver.
enjoy the above links. I only hope this helps us all find out more about this earth cell and how it works.
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as i said in my previous post i am testing my iron wire differently. i had a friend help me play mad scientist today. i played the part of Dr. Frankenstein my partner Mr Bee well he's no longer with us. he was electrified. it seems that bumble wanted to see if the floursent light was working correctly. so after a few sparks were flying around the light bulb somehow came down in pieces (broken tube of flying glass). with me standing under it. i survived the falling glass but it did hit me causing a small cut. nothing serious. but Mr Bumble Bee is gone.
when the light came flying down i was thinking it must have been my fault. i was making hydrogen at the time. man the sparks were everywhere. but i didn't do any thing wrong (really i didn't). so at this time i would like to thank Jenna, Pirate88179 and Localjoe for all the hard work and effort they have put into making this project a success.
also i want to point to the Homemade graphite rod fuel cell message base and thank Hartiberlin /Stefan for my newest iron wire test. what i am doing is testing my probes in water for voltage. then adding my copper wire and my iron wire to a jar of water. and checking voltage again. then i add to the wires a solar panel and charge the wires with 12v and a few ma's. i let it charge for a short time and remove the solar cell then check voltage again. copper wire and good iron wire in water will put out 2+ volts DC. and drop off from their in a short amount of time.
copper wire and iron wire will make a hydrogen battery in water. this is not dangerous as far as i can tell. it may only change the water and not make any hydrogen gas. but i don't know for sure as i am not the one to ask about that. (see Mr Bumble above)
LOL
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@ All:
Take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuJH3cNjgrA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuJH3cNjgrA)
I had seen this a while ago as I have been following the work of Dr. Stiffler BUT, Freezer called to my attention what was really going on here. (Thank you Freezer) I thought, ok assumed, there was a power input to this circuit from a wave generator or some other device. Freezer pointed out to me that the only connection to ANYTHING is the earth ground.
Sound familiar?
It may be quite possible to power this circuit and light a bunch of LEDs using our electrode grounds or possibly one of our earth cells. I feel like an idiot as I never made that connection when I first saw this video.
Freezer also provided me with a schematic copied from Dr. Stiffler's site. I hope the Doc does not mind if I post it here for us. I strongly agree with Freezer that we should look into this. This is mostly over my head as far as my understanding of electronics goes, but I am going to give it a try anyway. This would light the LEDs indefinitely using only our earth ground.
Thanks again to Freezer and Dr. Stiffler.
Bill
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Very interesting Bill! I hadn't heard of Stiffler but I'm checking out his videos now. It seems to have a similarity to the ns battery. Seems easy to replicate this circuit. Is there some more detailed information on how to wind the coils etc?
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Freezer also provided me with a schematic copied from Dr. Stiffler's site. I hope the Doc does not mind if I post it here for us. I strongly agree with Freezer that we should look into this. This is mostly over my head as far as my understanding of electronics goes, but I am going to give it a try anyway. This would light the LEDs indefinitely using only our earth ground.
Thanks again to Freezer and Dr. Stiffler.
Bill
To be clear I gave a link to his site and his image, but not copied and posted elsewhere as respecting his copyright issues. I think? its ok to post here as others have done within his thread, but not to copy his stuff to other places so just be aware of that out of respect for Dr. Stiffler. I'm still not totally clear on his copyright restrictions so we will see. I just don't want anyone to get in any trouble with that, so be aware.
Seems easy to replicate this circuit. Is there some more detailed information on how to wind the coils etc?
His site should have the information, but make no mistake, is won't be easy by any standards, hence no one on this site seemed to have replicated it. ;)
@Bill I hope this circuit can be realized if it is indeed what it seems to be. Even a little power like that could make a huge dent in the scientific world, if people could readily duplicate it.
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To be clear I gave a link to his site and his image, but not copied and posted elsewhere as respecting his copyright issues. I think? its ok to post here as others have done within his thread, but not to copy his stuff to other places so just be aware of that out of respect for Dr. Stiffler. I'm still not totally clear on his copyright restrictions so we will see. I just don't want anyone to get in any trouble with that, so be aware.
What is the link to his site?
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Below is the link to Dr. Stiffler's site. Freezer is correct, he sent me a link and did not copy and paste like I did. I am sorry if I did not make that clear. I hope Dr. Stiffler does not mind. He looks in on our topic from time to time and if he objects, I will modify the post and just put the link there.
The coils can be purchased and are very cheap. They are the same ones used in am radio's as the antenna. I found a source but I am still checking to make sure the coils and cores have similar values to the ones used by Dr. Stiffler.
http://stifflerscientific.com/ (http://stifflerscientific.com/) Dr. Stifler's site for his SEC experiments.
The link below may be a source for the litz coils and cores:
https://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=R (https://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=R)
(https://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/four_wire_ferrite_coil.jpg)
This could be very interesting if it works. There is a lot to this and it will not be easy. I am still reading on the Dr.'s site to get caught up.
Bill
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Below is the link to Dr. Stiffler's site. Freezer is correct, he sent me a link and did not copy and paste like I did. I am sorry if I did not make that clear. I hope Dr. Stiffler does not mind. He looks in on our topic from time to time and if he objects, I will modify the post and just put the link there.
The coils can be purchased and are very cheap. They are the same ones used in am radio's as the antenna. I found a source but I am still checking to make sure the coils and cores have similar values to the ones used by Dr. Stiffler.
http://stifflerscientific.com/ (http://stifflerscientific.com/) Dr. Stifler's site for his SEC experiments.
The link below may be a source for the litz coils and cores:
https://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=R (https://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=R)
(https://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/four_wire_ferrite_coil.jpg)
This could be very interesting if it works. There is a lot to this and it will not be easy. I am still reading on the Dr.'s site to get caught up.
Bill
@Bill & All
This circuit was withdrawn from the public (remains on my web site) because of extreme static I received when I tried to present it. It was replaced by a powered circuit, because that was received as possible. The circuit works, but the ground shown is not what you all consider to be ground (not that earthy dirt you plant your cells in). This ground is a component of the ground in a home or business electrical wiring system. In the US a common home or office has a Hot, a Neutral and a Ground. The ground is for added safety, yet it contains signal (induced and leakage currents). These currents are used to excite an AV plug in a highly tuned pair of coils. One coil excites the other which provided the starter coil (if you will) with positive feedback which allows the building of the oscillation. This is the basis of this circuit and is not something the faint of heart should try even though I have circuits running over 100 LED's in the lab.
What is important to understand is that it depends on a minimal signal input from the ground. If you drive a rod into mother earth and connect this circuit it will not work. This is a false alarm for you work.
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Forget my source for the litz coils. Freezer pointed out that they do not have any specs on them. He gave me a link
I will post here to where Dr. Stiffler was getting them. If anyone is going to attempt this also, remember it is important to use exact components as published by Dr. Stiffler.
Litz coils:http://cgi.ebay.com/Ferrite-Loopstick-Antenna-Coil-Crystal-Radio-680uh_W0QQitemZ150089628196QQihZ005QQcategoryZ7275QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Ferrite-Loopstick-Antenna-Coil-Crystal-Radio-680uh_W0QQitemZ150089628196QQihZ005QQcategoryZ7275QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Bill
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Thanks for the info Dr. Stiffler, as that's much more clear. Still intriguing, and I will still give it a try. If I'm correct, if you take that signal from the ground connection, you aren't paying for that energy right? It also worked with just touching the wire, so would that mean the signal is through the body in proximity to local electrical wiring. Would make a great flashlight activated by touch, but I guess you would have to be near a source for it to work, which is still useful.
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Dr. Stiffler:
Thank you for your input on this. Personally, I still see this as a viable way to "capture" heretofore unused energy in our systems. I am still going to plunge ahead (mostly blindly) to see. I see what you are saying about the earth ground but....and maybe a small but....with all of the power companies dumping everything they have into "ground" possibly we could see the same effect? Thank you for your work in this most interesting area. This is exactly the reason I, and many others, are here.
Bill
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Thanks for the info Dr. Stiffler, as that's much more clear. Still intriguing, and I will still give it a try. If I'm correct, if you take that signal from the ground connection, you aren't paying for that energy right? It also worked with just touching the wire, so would that mean the signal is through the body in proximity to local electrical wiring. Would make a great flashlight activated by touch, but I guess you would have to be near a source for it to work, which is still useful.
@Freezer
Well you are right in a way that the energy is not being paid for directly, but this is not a SEC type of system, rather an induce oscillation which is triggered by some electrical device generating noise to start and sustain the oscillation. It could be a photocopy machine, a drill or a mixer, so someone paid somewhere. The whole research project was to try shock and awe leading to SEC. It worked to well and caused to much trouble.
Maybe in a few months I will do another video on how to build as some of the dust has settled.
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@Dr. Stiffler:
I'm curious if you've ever tried by build a stubblefield earth battery. How was it that you were able to excite this other coil by just touching? How was that initiating and sustaining the oscillations? I guess we have enough electrical energy in us to start that circuit?
Steve
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@Dr. Stiffler:
I'm curious if you've ever tried by build a stubblefield earth battery. How was it that you were able to excite this other coil by just touching? How was that initiating and sustaining the oscillations? I guess we have enough electrical energy in us to start that circuit?
Steve
@storre
Well yes and no on the experiments with earth batteries. Back when I was a tadpole in the 50's, a friend and I ran a mile and a half pair of telephone wire from my home to his so we could BS over the line with telephones. I obtained the wire and the phones from the local telco as they kind of allowed me to tag along and observe and ask 1,000 questions. I had help on how to setup our private line, but it required a few 1.5V batts. I was also a hang out at the local railroad station as I was fascinated by the telegraphy and wanted to learn the code. My mentor at the RR got me in contact with an RR tech and he helped me with the current "Earth Assist Battery". At the time the two 1.5V batts I needed for my line were to expensive for my parents to buy. I did what I was told and built a so called "Earth Battery" which was a very inefficient battery of dissimilar metal windings placed in the wet soil. Did not take to long ("a season" to find my wire dissipated over time), now I had the problem of where and how to get new wire.
Long story short is that unless you encase and insulate the coils to remove chemical action, you have just an poor battery of two dissimilar metals with the earth providing the electrolyte.
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What about the idea of quickly shorting the battery with a NC reed switch across the 2 different metal wires (getting one end from the opposite end) so to make it a type of pulsed dc or ac. The reed switch would be opened by the magnetic field built up from the instant it was closed. A page or 2 back I put up a drawing that better describes it. I also heard Thrapp talking about using a NC reed switch and it seems he made one that way that was successful. I see without this action then it's just a normal galvanic cell.
How do you mean by insulating the coils? You mean putting one metal coil in one bottle of water and the other metal coil in a separate bottle? I've always assumed the coils were there to create the magnet to activate the switch so that it just turned on and off many times per second but coils have some strange properties so maybe something else is going on here.
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I've always assumed the coils were there to create the magnet to activate the switch so that it just turned on and off many times per second but coils have some strange properties so maybe something else is going on here.
Yes, and
Hopefully we or some of us will be able to show this.
Dr Stiffler said
...to remove chemical action, you have just an poor battery of two dissimilar metals with the earth providing the electrolyte
There ought to be more reactions than just the chemical galvanic one. In fact that is a rather poor part of this thing.
There ought to be pairs of galvanic and electrolysis reactions happening many times per second.
The hard part (for me at least) is that if we slow down the double reaction just to look at it it may not even happen.
Storre,
I hope your NC reed switches get there soon. I don't see joe or any others who have had this type of plan coming up with cells to show their progress. I am really looking forward to your shared results.
I have to plant some seeds today, but I am still interested in what this NS generator will do with the reed switch in place.
I guess 2 more weeks?
jeanna
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My last few parts are on there way and will arrive hopefully June 12. Got 500 yards of cotton 1/8" ID tubing from wickstore.com and 20 or so different types of NC reed switches. The rest I have. I'm going to start with 2mm wire and wood for the assembly following the patent as much as possible. He doesn't talk about the reed switch but I plan to find a spot on the cell (i'm guessing the top of the bolt) where the mf is strongest and then try to mount it there. My coil is 3.5" from inner end to inner end. Not sure how many meters I will get on it but I will start with as much as possible.
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Yes, and
Hopefully we or some of us will be able to show this.
Dr Stiffler saidThere ought to be more reactions than just the chemical galvanic one. In fact that is a rather poor part of this thing.
There ought to be pairs of galvanic and electrolysis reactions happening many times per second.
The hard part (for me at least) is that if we slow down the double reaction just to look at it it may not even happen.
Storre,
I hope your NC reed switches get there soon. I don't see joe or any others who have had this type of plan coming up with cells to show their progress. I am really looking forward to your shared results.
I have to plant some seeds today, but I am still interested in what this NS generator will do with the reed switch in place.
I guess 2 more weeks?
jeanna
@jeanna
The point is to not have galvanic reactions and electrolysis is a total bust. You want to capture energy without using up your materials, right?
Don't know if you have seen this info, but maybe it will be of help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Standard_electrode_potential
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Galvanic_series
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He doesn't talk about the reed switch but I plan to find a spot on the cell (i'm guessing the top of the bolt) where the mf is strongest and then try to mount it there.
Yes, the top is very strong. I noticed back when I was looking at my coils with a compass, that the turn around at the bottom seemed to be stronger. I mean that the compass would very smartly or sharply snap itself into position at the bottom.
It may be the same at the top only it is harder to tell because the wires are in the way.
I just thought I'd mention it. I don't know if you have used a compass with your coils yet. If not have a go, it is interesting. ;)
I want to revisit that site with the video that showed the wires at the bottom.
The patent shows something that is impossible.
It shows the wires starting and ending at the top. NOW, THE IMPOSSIBLE PART IS THAT HE SHOWS 5 ROWS. It is either an even number of rows or it starts at the top and ends at the bottom.
Now, I just learned in the book that he was also a caligrapher and proud of it so, I am quite sure he drew the patent drawing himself. So, I think there is good reason to follow this line. To my knowledge, no one has yet made one that ends at the bottom.
Do you remember that I said you could check your coil while the wires were still attached to the spool of wire on the floor?
When I was doing that winding, I noticed that the volts n amps were always higher when they were arranged that way and got less when I finished the layer at the top.
So, I'm just saying this because I didn't say it earlier, and you might want to check it out. (check me out.)
Dr Stiffler said;
The point is to not have galvanic reactions and electrolysis is a total bust. You want to capture energy without using up your materials, right?
Yes, exactly.
I probably used the wrong words. Electroplating is what I meant when I said electrolysis. So, the coil has a zero net change.
And, yes, the trick is to catch a little juice as it flies by on its way to elsewhere.
jeanna
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@ Pardon,
I think we have most of what there is to be had, however there are clues. as I mentioned earlier.
This is one from the family, I guess, this sentance is a link to the US patent office for the NS generator/ battery.
PATENT WAS ISSUED TO STUBBLEFIELD FOR the ELECTROLYTIC COIL. The Patent was referred to as the: Electrolitic Water Battery, the Electrolitic Oscillating Coil, the Induction Coil, Earth Battery, Undamped Transmitting Coils, The Stubblefield Electrolytic Detector.
It is an interesting and provoking list of names.
I took a couple of screen shots of the battery in a drawing of a coil with a secondary? but with an odd number of wires. And no drawing of a reed switch or any switch. It is possible that someone drew this for the website, but it is also possible that his son drew it . Certainly NS did not. It is not his style, unless maybe a preliminary drawing in a notebook, maybe?
Maybe I can get them on without needing to photoshop them down.(not so lucky, but here it is:)
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
I like the way you were able to study the patent and come up with your observation. I believe you are correct when you counted the windings in the drawing. This makes total sense to me. I didn't notice that before.
@ All:
I just checked my buried coil for the first time in several weeks. Bad news. 0.0 vdc, 0.0 vac, and 0.0 mA's.
Crap!!!
Bill
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PATENT WAS ISSUED TO STUBBLEFIELD FOR the ELECTROLYTIC COIL. The Patent was referred to as the: Electrolitic Water Battery, the Electrolitic Oscillating Coil, the Induction Coil, Earth Battery, Undamped Transmitting Coils, The Stubblefield Electrolytic Detector.
It is an interesting and provoking list of names.
I took a couple of screen shots of the battery in a drawing of a coil with a secondary? but with an odd number of wires. And no drawing of a reed switch or any switch. It is possible that someone drew this for the website, but it is also possible that his son drew it . Certainly NS did not. It is not his style, unless maybe a preliminary drawing in a notebook, maybe?
jeanna
I wonder if the wires with the blue on the ends could be 5 & 6 The wires with the red on the ends could be a secondary connected at the bottom to the core .
I agree the list of names is interesting
I guess that means to use the coil as a phone it needs to be dampened by something .
gary
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@ All:
I just checked my buried coil for the first time in several weeks. Bad news. 0.0 vdc, 0.0 vac, and 0.0 mA's.
Crap!!!
Bill
Bill
did you dig up your coil ?
I can't imagine burned out the galvanic reaction this quick
It must be a bad connection...... or .......something in the soil that is reacting kind of like your salt did .
Didn't you say you were putting vinegar on it ? maybe it wants more .
gary
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Didn't you say you were putting vinegar on it ? maybe it wants more .
gary
I just remembered reading about using metal electrodes for creating power
they had diagrams for a system to apply an acid solution .
they also had tapered electrodes .......it said the electrodes were tapered for easy cleaning .
to clean them just lift them out of the ground and shove them back in a few times
gary
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I just checked my buried coil for the first time in several weeks. Bad news. 0.0 vdc, 0.0 vac, and 0.0 mA's.
Bill,
Does that mean the coil is very dry? 0.00 is lower than a little moist.
Do you think it got polarized? In the brochure NS says it doesn't get polarized like other galvanic batteries when in non acidulated. or some language that means to me that adding vinegar could stop it from working.
So, do you think the vinegar covered the wires with crud?
lots of questions here.
Thanks for the information. Sometimes (often) it is more information when something does NOT work, as you know.
jeanna
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@ Gary and Jeanna:
No, I did not dig it up yet but I am going to. Yes, I am concerned that the vinegar "accelerent" I used
may have had some ill effects on the metals. The soil is fairly dry now but we had a heavy rain 2 days ago.
There is only one way to know so I will dig it up when I get the chance.
Yes, NS said these should not polarize and the galvanic effects will not hurt them. (In non acidized soil) I guess the vinegar
made it acidized. At least I didn't use pitchblende, ha ha.
Bill
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I just checked my buried coil for the first time in several weeks. Bad news. 0.0 vdc, 0.0 vac, and 0.0 mA's.
Crap!!!
just by chance did you make sure your meter Leeds are still plugged in and working correctly. i know i have a bad probe on one of my meters and it causes me fits. causes the same as above.
I came across this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuA-dkKvrd0
it's a video of how to make a 3D viewer of magnetic fields. I am going to make one today. also i am starting my coil winding today.
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@ Pardon:
Yes, I did check my meter and leads, but, always a good suggestion. Great video! So simple and yet it works great. This would cost less than $2.00 I think and would be handy to have around. I'll bet Jeanna will make one to see what her coils look like. Excellent post, thanks.
Bill
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I have completely enjoyed reading this thread. Congratulations are in order to see people working together in a spirit of good progress and leaving a well documented trail! Thank you all.
I would inject one thing that may have been overlooked as of yet. The Joe Cell electric response. This is now a familiar pattern to me having played with the cells for some time, but anyone never having played with them would not have ever been taught about this in any schools.
Using only distilled water and concentric stainless steel tubes spaced at .5 inches we can have voltages of 1 volt appear accross the tubes in the Northern hemisphere. Down under the voltages will soar to 3 volts. When shorted and then released the voltage springs back instantly. We do everything possible to prevent the battery or corrosion effects that happen with impure water.
Over time the water becomes more pure and impurities actually fall out of the water. The voltage effect is present as long as the tubes are wet, you can dump the water out completely and until the tubes go dry the voltages are still present, and will spring back instantly after a direct short.
This is only a geometry effect and once the water to tube voltage action is started it will feed itself indefinitly.
Now in my torsion field studies I discovered that at .5 inches the effect is good but even at closer distances it still works. The width of two thicknesses of black tape is a smaller fractal and will also work. Distances are criticle to field strength and can be optimized.
To prevent battery corrosion effects simply use distilled water, and the metals should hold up much better.
One of the effects that is not aparent is how the water molecules spin up when placed into this geometry and at the boundary of the metal and the water, a voltage is somehow generated.
The cells need to have an initial charge placed on them to start the process, and it can be applied either way, there after it will sustain with the same polarity, however the cells only have one metal, Stainless steel.
This effect is no small discovery and may have direct applications to your work here as the active ingredient is the water.
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To maintain this voltage, and then have it fill your "bifillar coil capacitors" it would then have more punch to deliver a shot of current on the discharge, and then turn this into a magnetic pulse by joining opposing ends of the iron and copper coils.
The iron wire is the active element that would be spining the water up and along its surface meeting both inwards between layers and outwards where water touches the iron we would expect a voltage to appear naturally from the Joe Cell electric effect. This is actually a torsion field effect with a voltage side effect that falls on nodal positions based on distance between layers.
We have been able to increase this effect by using special lengths, or what we call tempic field resonant lengths. In the Joe cells the tubes can be cut to exact lengths and we see the voltages become more stable. These voltages do however interact with the earth and the time of day following the tides and so probably the gravity of the sun earth and moon as they cycle 4 times a day.
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In a coil like in this cell you inititally use the galvanic response to start the cell, but after it is operating I understood the cells might often even go dry and still operate. Do not recall where I read that on Stubblefield cells, but believe it may be accurate.
Due to the geometry, if the electrodes do not go bad before the pulsing can be started, then the cells can continue to operate dry.
What I never understood about these cells is how they produce DC as a battery if they are really pulsed DC. The secondary should be outputting AC and would need a rectifier to make a DC would it not?
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I certainly do not have all the answers, but if any want to try using some of the resonant lengths, I have been exploring torsion fields and lengths of wire that seem to harness them to a high degree. The Joe Cell model is the only one I have found to produce consistent voltages.
The parameters to harness a torsion field are coil length and coil diameter. The diameter determines how the nodes will align from layer to layer. Voltages would appear from inside to outside of the coils, so with the two wires being different naterials you can see how this will cause the two metals could be further pushed apart from inside to outside, but especially from the core element to the coils, as you have been seeing happen.
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Last observation, if you take and place the core iron in series with the relay, or place it on one end of the iron wire in series, the voltage will be gained to add current to the impusle. You stated that voltages to the core were often higher. Also if this current running vertical in the core is the correct direction it will amplify the voltage surge as current starts to flow. This is from TPU study where it was shown that coils at 90 degrees will produce high voltage spikes in one another.
If you get the current backwards running vertically through the core the current will drop. It may be worth a shot to connect an electrode to both ends of the core and try this.
Also if the higher voltage experienced on the core is from torsion fields, then it should spring back almost instantly after the relay opens.
Now if you want to do this with an opened circuit, or CE approach, just use a one wire circuit to the core so that the relay opens the core totally again allowing a full fast recharge. You want current to move from iron to copper and then stop as the relay closes and opens.
Iron is negative so which ever end you tap will draw the electrons towards it as it is shorted to the copper. If the recharge is trully comming from radiant energy then it may not need a closed circuit to operate.
Sincerely,
Dave L
c_s_s_p group
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I just finished winding my coil. problems forced me to rewind it like 3 times. it's uses 19 feet of wire. 16 gauge cloth insulated copper, and 14 gauge bare iron wire. it's wound about 2 inches down on a 3/8 inch bolt. wood top and bottom it has 9 coils going down and 5 layers.
no shorts so far. i tested it at .5 ohms on the 5 (copper) and .6 ohms on the 6 (iron) all voltages are 0.00. but testing between the 5 and 6 i see a pulse of .04 going back to .00 and flashing the minus sign on the meter.
if i can figure out how to add more wire to the Iron side, i will add more length and wind it some more. i don't know what splicing it with a connector would do to the coil. but as of now it's ready to be planted. i don't think i want to try just water first. because i don't think any one has tried just planting first.
lol
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Dave
I have wondered if the Joe cell and Stubblfield battery could be combined
I have read that the Joe cell makes some kind of vortex
I have read that the water starts spinning . .......is this true ?
My ideas were in the direction of putting a stubblfield coil inside a large Joe cell .
something to think about ......... filling the Joe cell with dirt rather than water ........
If it was filled with dirt ( organic matter ) it would closely resemble an orgon collector .
It would be interesting to see how the output of a stubblfield coil in a Joe cell would compare filled with water, dirt , and just air .
gary
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if i can figure out how to add more wire to the Iron side, i will add more length and wind it some more. i don't know what splicing it with a connector would do to the coil. but as of now it's ready to be planted. i don't think i want to try just water first. because i don't think any one has tried just planting first.
lol
Pardon
I don't know of any advantage of planting your coil before you take any readings ........but I guess that doesn't mean that there are no advantages.
Good luck with your coil
:)
gary
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Libra Spirit,
Thanks for all that. I spent lots of yesterday on your site and then I watched those very interesting videos.......
Lots to think about and do.
@Bill,
You are right. In fact, jeanna already made one of those magnet readers before she even came to this forum. ;)
I have not been able to see the field of the NS gen. with it , however. The compass needle shows where the lines are going better than the iron filings do.
Yesterday, I wetted a NS cell inside and held it in every way I could to see some iron filings going off the way they do with a simple magnet.
I think it is just too weak.
I will try this outside.
@Pardon,
I'm glad you thought to bury your coil first, as none of us has tried that yet.
I want to remind you about the cement pots I buried. (I did that to get separation in the soil to get a series connection.) This was way back in November, I think. It took a full week and on one of them longer to get "charged". After that time in the earth the voltage went up and a series connection was possible.
Since NS indicates that his cells take some time in the earth to condition or charge, do keep them in the earth for a while to see.
That would be AFTER you move it around to find the best spot, leave it there to charge. Mine would lose the charge if I moved them or their alignment , or something...
good idea.
@Dr Stiffler,
Thanks for that information and those links to your work with the magnet. (It may have been on another thread - in half baked, maybe) .
In your research you described just the same thing that I found on the voltage of those pots. The series was diminished by the set up itself but then it added a consistent amount after that first additional cell.
That means to me that this magnetic field of the earth is what is making a big effect on the cells we put into the earth. It is the same diminished series effect that you found in your lab using magnets.
Thank you,
jeanna
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I didn't find a good way to add more wire so i just planted the coil. after a half hour the voltages were .31 VDC
.0 VAC and .0 MA. after the half hour i wet the ground to set the earth and rechecked the voltages this time they were .86 VDC 1.3 VAC and .15 Ma. an hour later they were .73 VDC .9 VAC and .19 MA then with a short 5 seconds of shock treatment of 12 VDC .25 MA they were .83 VDC 1.2 VAC and .48 Ma that dropped off to .77 VDC .9 VAC and .26 MA so it's making good progress. i will know more tomarrow when i check it again.
also when it was just in air I added my APM's output to it and I could light an LED for a very short time. doing that is real progress. I am a happy camper now.
I was thinking of wiring a few cells in series with the coil. but only if the coil will come up in Ma's a bit. i know that i can add to the voltage. using series wiring. but i still can't figure out how to get more Amp's the problem with series wiring is that i have 2 sides to think about (the 5 and 6) I think i have to run 2 sets of series wired cells. one being a plus voltage and one being a minus voltage. then if i can wire this coil in series i can add more cells for more voltage and hopefully Amp's. i think only testing will tell.
LOL
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@libra_spirit:
Great suggestions! I will have to look back here when I finish receiving my parts. I think some here are forgetting the importance of turning it on and off very quickly with some sort of switching (nc reed switch is what I will try). I think we just have to get the size of the battery up to the point that it will create a strong enough magnetic field to open the switch and collapse the field. I think at that collapsing point something happens to open a window to the radiant energy. Without that, it's just a weak battery that will just go down in voltage.
I see this the same as the water hammer effect, when flowing water is suddenly stopped by an inline valve and reopened. Resonance of the opening and closing might be important also to create a resonant wave going through the coil. Maybe connected to the length of the wire the same as the length of a tube effects it's frequency. A type of electron slap back effect.
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also when it was just in air I added my APM's output to it and I could light an LED for a very short time. doing that is real progress. I am a happy camper now.
What does that mean. adding APM's output to it?
one being a plus voltage and one being a minus voltage.
It does boost the reading of everything as I recall. I used a carbon-rods bunch and connected it to the + side and a Zn rod to the - side and the overall voltage was the summed amount. Go for it let's see!!
i think only testing will tell.
indeed! ;)
thank you,
jeanna
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storre,
As the knowledge base grows it becomes easier to forget things, but I guarentee each one will remember their own experiments, so this exchange of perceptions is invaluable. It is good to be reminded that OU and pulsing seem to go together. I think if the two systems are both radiant light resonant there is a better chance of them oscillating back and forth in a harmony of some kind. I believe I may be able to come up with some exact wire lengths to test this at some point.
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Earth nodes:
I spent about 6 months charting the telluric voltages in one area where I lived. I used a copper clad ground rod 4' long and a long 5/8" diameter threaded rod, and two very long meter leads. The results were a polar chart of a system of nodal points on the surface.
Main voltage is consistently rising from East to West, and on the North South exact line some higher voltages will pop up also.
Trees also create a voltage node on the ground plane and particularly near a root you will get standing nodes of positive charge.
There is a basic pattern of negative charge everywhere, with single nodal points of + appearing along a grid pattern, that increase + to the West, and shift - to the East. These telluric currents I assumed at the time are responsible for the earths North pole at 90 degrees to the current flow.
The charting took two steps
1- locating the first node - I used a simple T pattern and logged voltages at each 6" step outwards
2- charting between nodes to see the overall larger pattern - I used a circle pattern to locate these
Here is the 2nd chart
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Going further we noticed these unique + points on the earth grid were somehow different then a normal electric field. I had current charging things backwards through small diodes. I recall using a 2200 mfd cap and a high frequency diode, and wondering if it was marked wrong, so I tried several other diodes and discovered they were charging the cap backwards, Also a ground rod set about 1 foot deep at one of these + points could be "felt" and often I would go out and just hold the end of one of these with my left palm. It felt electric and good, a healing and rising feeling.
I later identified this energy as a torsion field.
The chart supplied above is in millivolts, and the greatest voltage I could get accross the property was around 300 mv from the earth currents alone. I never figured out any way to get "current" enough for an LED without using active battery elements, like you all are experimenting with here.
Here is the first chart:
You do one line first, then at the highest positive point you do another one at 90 degrees, until you start to locate the positive earth nodes.
Dave L
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What does that mean. adding APM's output to it?
jeanna
Sorry jeanna APM's = Ambient Power Module (crystal radio circuit) i just used that circuit as a quick test to see if voltages would pass through the coil. and it did plus i got to light an led from it. but only for a short time.
i am trying different setup's today using cell's connected to the coil. i will post more on that later today.
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Results to date
My greatest achievment during that time was to go right next to one of the + points and beat a 2 foot by 1.5 foot plastic barrier plate into the ground. This set up an insulator just off one of the hot spots. I then pounded one rod into the hot spot and one right up against the plastic plate and got a glorious .087 volts from the ground currents! All within a one foot area. I was elated. This voltage now added to the rods active battery with iron on the negative side as I recall.
I designed a few battery systems using spherical hemispheres of Zinc and copper, but never actually built one. The Zinc would be on the East side and the Copper on the West side and the earth currents would add to the system if placed just off a hot spot. The capacitors would be inside the sphere with one contact to each hemisphere.
Series cells
The worst realization or discovery was when doing series cells. The earth will short them all out basically. The only way to make a series cell is from a large circle to a central point, then a section of the ground will charge up form outside to inside, and since you are always fighting the underground short this gets frustrating.
To harness and use the torsion fields of the earth grid, you need to be inside them, but to raise the voltage in one location you need to work a "node point" and push it more positive using concentric circular elements. This gets expensive fast! LOL! So I moved on.
I never tried the large plastic insulators in a hole idea and working two node points, a lot of digging for sure would be involved to get the area needed. Consider you want to spread out 6 feet, now you have 6 foot of hole to get a good spherical system isolated for a good conductance of the earth. Its the underground part where using insulators becomes hard to achieve. Charge will spread out as a sphere however so this would be the best way to achieve the highest possible charge without loosing it. An earth capacitor, using a torsion field, could also have layers with insulation between them and actually become the capacitor as well. If built and buried around a hot spot it would now have a power source.
I also read somewhere that the earth batteries were seeded with a copper sulphate in the soil to reactivate them. They would spread it over the ground then water it in.
Ground resistance:
Consider that ground rods of 6 foot are used by the phone companies, and they are always placed 6 foot apart in a large ground field. Any closer is considered wasting them. This is because at 6 foot down you have grabbed the entire "hemisphere" of electric potiential in that section of ground. A ground field of 100 rods set up like this will easilly sink 15 amps and more of current that moves along the cable sheaths that run under power lines. I have personally measured 15 amps flowing in one, while this is not a normal effect, they are normally allways flowing an amp or two. To get a strong EM current moving into the ground requires covering more area if the ground is to carry a load current.
Torsion
If you had two strong ground systems placed a distance apart along the east west line you can expect to get some really strong telluric currents, and I think a lot of the old telegraph systems in the US ran East to West. They would start to power each other as the system grew larger, and the earth batteries would appear to be generating some very real power, enough to pull up telegraphs anyway even long after the cells were dried up and half corroded. This is of little use to us wanting the same 15 amps from our 150 foot lot, so if we go with the conventional EM stuff, the numbers do not add up well for a pure EM system. This is where one may choose to entertain the notion that the torsion field may hold some key to greater EM outputs then a simple earth current, as the two systems appear to be linked. The positive nodes on the earth appear to have an energy we do not understand, and to me it feels quite strong. I have no proof as of yet that the torsion systems can power anything however to the degree we presently use in our homes, but I do have a sense about how to propagate them, and their conscious effects.
Dave L
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Series cells
The worst realization or discovery was when doing series cells. The earth will short them all out basically. The only way to make a series cell is from a large circle to a central point, then a section of the ground will charge up form outside to inside, and since you are always fighting the underground short this gets frustrating.
I think to harness the power, you need high voltage, and not necessarily amps. Even within Stubblefield's patent, he notes that it is a "voltaic pile." I think this possibly relates to Stiffler's excitation principle, except in this case the trick is to excite the ground space. I was thinking maybe try building the rings of wire around a bolt in a voltaic pile fashion, with cotton or other material being the separation.
(http://www.theautomd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/batteries-3.gif)
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I think to harness the power, you need high voltage, and not necessarily amps. Even within Stubblefield's patent, he notes that it is a "voltaic pile." I think this possibly relates to Stiffler's excitation principle, except in this case the trick is to excite the ground space. I was thinking maybe try building the rings of wire around a bolt in a voltaic pile fashion, with cotton or other material being the separation.
Freezer
Interesting idea .
I was working in that genreral direction on the other thread ..... I never did get my pancake coils to work together .
I never tried making them all copper and all iron and making a voltaic pile with them .
I agree that high voltage is probably important .
In my opinion the keys to radiant energy are short pulses and high voltage
@ pardon
I am waiting to hear how your shock treatment works .
I read that Stubblfield did something to draw the energy up through the coil .
It would be great if it was as simple as a few jolts from a battery .
gary
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here is how i shock a cell or coil i have a pv panel 12 V .25 ma or so it's just a battery maintainer from harbor freight. cost about 12 dollars on sale. it's used to keep my car and truck battery's up to charge. i don't drive either of them much.
i take the pv panel and make sure it's getting bright light, then take the clips and clip them on to what i want to shock.
note this panel with bright light on it puts out over 20 volts. i just keep it attached for a set amount of time. thats all their is to it.
i didn't have much luck wiring in series today. i need to have more cells. so i started making cells again. this time i am using real good wire and connectors. but then it started raining so I was unable to complete this part of the project. I am not going to mess around with anything electric in the rain. my body is just to good of a ground. and i really don't like shock treatments.
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here is how i shock a cell or coil i have a pv panel 12 V .25 ma or so it's just a battery maintainer from harbor freight. cost about 12 dollars on sale. it's used to keep my car and truck battery's up to charge. i don't drive either of them much.
i take the pv panel and make sure it's getting bright light, then take the clips and clip them on to what i want to shock.
note this panel with bright light on it puts out over 20 volts. i just keep it attached for a set amount of time. thats all their is to it.
i didn't have much luck wiring in series today. i need to have more cells. so i started making cells again. this time i am using real good wire and connectors. but then it started raining so I was unable to complete this part of the project. I am not going to mess around with anything electric in the rain. my body is just to good of a ground. and i really don't like shock treatments.
Pardon
how did the voltage and current hold up after the shock treatment ?
did you hook the positive up to copper and negative to iron when you shocked it?
gary
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double post deleated
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Pardon
how did the voltage and current hold up after the shock treatment ?
did you hook the positive up to copper and negative to iron when you shocked it?
Gary
yes i did that the voltage went up just like i expected. but since it was dry they came back down in a short time.
note if my coil is wet and i apply a voltage of 12 volts my coil will make hydrogen in water. and it will be a water battery. and that will put out 2 volts. i just don't know how to explane it any better. the wire i have used in the cell makes hydrogen. and that was tested with short 5 inch pieces of wire in water with 12 VDC connected to the wire for a short time. then removing the supply voltage and testing the same wires in the water. and getting 2 volts.
my first type of iron wire did not have the same effect in water at least not as good of a hydrogen battery. but the wire would bubble just like the new wire i have used but not as good as the new wire. my first wire was the re bar Tye wire with the black stuff on it. my new wire is for hanging drop ceilings you know the panel type.
my cell was putting out 78 VDC 1.2 VDC and 2.03 Ma's today.
i think if my coil had longer wire it would have much better voltages.
also as a side note i could not get a series connection using cells and have the voltage go up. the only thing that happened was the coil stayed at the same voltage but the amps dropped to the cells amps. weird ?? thats not what i expected. it was like the coil would pull down the voltage but not change anything but the cells voltage and the coils Amps.
also i now have 11 cells wired in series they put out 5.03 VDC 9.?? VAC but only .07 Ma's they are in earth but they are dry. it's raining again so i stopped working on them. as soon as i can solder a connector to the copper pipe i have, i will have 12 cells. sorry i ran out of fuel for the torch. each cell is in it's own plastic container that i can Berry later. all the containers have holes in the bottum so they can drain. also i can light a bright white LED with just this series of cells and no other componets added. it could be a bit brighter. if i can get the amps up a little bit i will try and run a small motor i have waiting.
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Hi All,
For the past few days I have been thrashing about, not sure what to do next.
I have been on some HHO pages and TPU pages. on one of the TPU pages, I followed a link that led me to the following link:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15617/15617-h/15617-h.htm (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15617/15617-h/15617-h.htm)
This is a whole free book, and a good read on the historical background at NS time.
Something he might have read or known about.
MANY, MANY of our questions are answered in this book.
It is a few hundred pages and covers
batteries wet and dry cell,
Induction coils with and without iron cores,
Torroidal loops wound with external coils.
I copied it and it is on my computer, which is what I suggest everyone should do.
It kind of shows really clearly that the things everyone on this ou forum is doing in all the fields, is a continuation from the early 1900's.
My eyes closed on page 197 last night. I will continue today.
please read this if you are ready for more input.
(Oh BTW, I read on one of the TPU threads that reed switches fatigue in a few minutes at really high frequency, so it may no be the way to go afterall! - not to discourage but to prepare for looking for the next step.)
Right now, I have a crystal oscillator on mine.(I have it cu to cu at the moment.) There are many possibilities for hook up ;) of course.
I am following a thought of mine, that others oppose, that the coil reverses direction when the pulse changes from starting at the 10 to starting at the 5. The coil if starting at the 10 is wound CW, and if starting at the 5 is wound CCW.
It probably won't work unless I can match the freq to the coil, but I am looking at this as a way to make the coil oscillate and not break down.
;) :D ;D
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Excellent find on the book. I too will download it and read. I have not had much time lately to be on here or to experiment. I have not forgotten about our project though. Maybe reading this book will inspire some new change in direction for us.
Also, about the reed switches....if they are metal they can and will fatigue. Pulse jet engines uses petal valves that are very similar in function to a reed switch. These oscillate at very high frequencies when turned to the pulse jet engine and they fatigue as well. I always wanted to make some out of ceramic as we did our springs as they, by definition, are not subject to metal fatigue. A ceramic reed switch might work but it would have to have a conducting contact point chemically bonded (glued) to it to complete the circuit.
Thanks Jeanna, I'm off to download this book.
Bill
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Is it possible to do this switching with silicon? I'm not to familiar with this but I'm sure someone here can chime in. http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr21pz.cgi?E+SC+4+AHA7000+5++WW
Might eliminate the fatigue issue.
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Jeanna,
Thanks for the URL
"Parallel Differential Electromagnet"
There is the Stubblefield winding design.
Brings up some intresting questions, since they were using this coil in telephony, why?
Cancelling a magnetic field with current still flowing would seem to be the reason, it would drop the relay without taking down the DC circuit. The coil would still resist AC. Today we would see this as simply wasting energy, but having a background in telephone I can see the reason may be to keep the switchtrain up while dropping the relay switching circuit to a different path through a matrix.
My question for the Stubblefield cells is that if we set up a DC current in a coil that cancels the magnetic field what is left?
Does a pulsed cancelling field still radiate an A vector field?
Dave L
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@ libra_spirit:
My understanding is that when pulsing the primary, the secondary emits high voltage ac. I assume the magnetic field collapses momentarily while disconnected via the switching mechanism, but the frequency of these disconnections is what determines the frequency of the resultant ac. This idea seems so simple that to me it is beautiful. Now, If only we can get it to work. I don't know if this answers your last question or not. I learned more form reading the first 30 pages of Jeanna's book link than I ever knew so, I can't wait to finish reading.
I am still leaning toward the rotary make/break devices for the primaries. Many advantages as I see it and no metal fatigue. I have still not built one but I have the parts for one as of now.
Bill
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I see a rotary type of switch not switching fast enough. You have design in mind?
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Sure. Actually Localjoe came up with the idea of a rotary switch. My approach may be a little different, but basically the same.
I was thinking of using a cd disk with conducting lines painted across it in an axial manner. (from the center hole outward) Like pc board paint. Spin this with a variable resistor controlled motor and use two "brushes" made from stranded copper wire positioned up against the spinning cd such that a connection is made and unmade every several degrees of cd rotation. By varying the rpm many different frequencies could be explored. One can also very the number and space between the conducting lines as well.
We first had hopes of possibly self-powering the motor with the primary but, to uncomplicate things, I am just going to use a AAA battery for this for now. I am using a small motor salvaged from a vibrating electric toothbrush. (the brush cost $5.00 3 years ago) These are the same motors they put into shaving razors that vibrate as well. They just have a small weight on the shaft to remove which is what causes the vibrations. These are advertised as "ultra-sonic" but I really doubt they vibrate in the 20,000 Hz range which they would have to for this to be true.
We have posted some drawings of our switching ideas on Joe's topic somewhere way back. I hope this makes some sense.
Bill
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I have about 20 NC reed switches arriving in a few days so hopefully I will be successful enough to test out the fatigue problem :)
Anyone have any ideas about using a Hall IC in place of the reed switch? Not sure if it could duplicate a NC reed switch action.
http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/ake/en/product/ic/outline.html
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@ storre:
Interesting idea about the Hall switches. I don't know enough about them to say if they might work or not. To me, any idea might be a good one and worth looking into.
@ All:
My large coil is still "dead" but my electrodes are still putting out juice. I think I am going to continue research on both types of devices at the same time. I still see no evidence of any deterioration of the electrodes. I wish I had a larger plot of land to experiment with placing cells of electrodes really far apart and trying them in series to see what happens.
Bill
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Bill,
What do you mean by totally dead.
Is it totally dry?
Is it shorted?
I think if dirt gets between 2 wires it can short them. My sweet little coil #3 that has strange properties, got shorted when it got dirt in the spaces, but got fixed when I brushed it clean.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
That's a good question. I will dig it up to check for a short. I suspect that is the case after I used the
white vinegar on it several times, it probably got eaten up while it was putting out good numbers. I tested it dry, and wet after a rain. Dead. I want to unwrap it from the cotton sock I covered it with to see what it looks like anyway.
If it is anything interesting, I will post a photo here. Thanks.
Bill
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@ All:
My large coil is still "dead" but my electrodes are still putting out juice. I think I am going to continue research on both types of devices at the same time. I still see no evidence of any deterioration of the electrodes. I wish I had a larger plot of land to experiment with placing cells of electrodes really far apart and trying them in series to see what happens.
Bill
The main thing i was interested in was getting my coils voltage up. so i built some earth cells to get the voltage to go up. that did not happen and i can't explane why. in testing my cells i feel that when they are wired in series in earth the plus always shorts out to earth(earth ground). i hope that you see what i am trying to say here. each cell must be isolated from the next cell. so i now have mine in plastic jars with dirt tightly packed inside and wired in series. and i can light an led. it's been lit since last sunday. no load tests at 5.03 or so volts, but under a load(led attached) it tests at 2.46 volts
this was the only way i could get the voltage to go up.
the next change to these cells will be adding 2 more cells in plastic jars and 1 cell in earth the plus at one end and the minus at the other end for circuit connections and to see if the amps will be the same as just the earth cell. like i expect it to be.
also i still can not get a parallel circuit to add amps. so if any one can make this work please let me know how you do it.
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I found a new/old patent that i have not seen. the number is 7006a. it has some good information that may apply to the earth cells i have. i will try and post the link later. it says to build cells close by then add 1 more cell far from the first cells. the resistance of the far cell has to be higher by a couple of ohms when measured to the first set in series. and doing so will increase the tention of the circuit. also he used an accumulator (CAP) between the first half or set of cells.
the patent is from Emil Jahr in Berlin germany he received his pat in 1907. and its for telegraph
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here is the link to the patent
http://www.rexresearch.com/erthbatry/erthbatry.htm
it's the last one listed. i think you just have to click on the link on that page to see the full patent
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@ Pardon:
Thank you for posting this information. I will download and read through it. I glanced it over and it has a lot more info than I can digest in only a few minutes Excellent find.
Bill
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As I think I have mentioned, I have been thrashing about looking for some of the missing elements that will add to my ideas about how to extract power from this generator.
IMHO We will NEVER get anywhere as long as we are still trying to use this as a battery.
The trouble is, we are still trying to raise the power through galvanic means just to get started.
I think Luc gotoluc has got the idea we need. Please look at his whole (2 page) thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4124.0.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4124.0.html)
and watch the very clear videos.
Today he posted his newest video. In this video he includes all the elements we have been using and which are inherent in just the NS generator as it is.
I will let you watch it before I go on. I asked him for a drawing of today's circuit, just to be sure.
------------
One of the things that have been bothering me lately is that NS used iron and copper. He did not use zinc plated iron. He even said soft iron. This only gives 0.14vdc, which is very low voltage.
I knew we were going down a different road from the beginning on this point, but it didn't matter at first. I needed to get my hands on this coil to begin to understand it. I am happy with how much I have learned so far, but when I couldn't see the spark forming from the spark gap I set up on one of my coils, I just didn't know where to move next.
OK
Have a look and see if you don't see some clues we can use.
jeanna
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So, I think Luc has actually made a NS generator.
I wrote my last post before he posted the circuit. Now that I see the circuit I think he has made this. There is not even a capacitor in his latest design.
He starts with a 12 volt battery, and on one side of it runs it to a magnet with a spark gap made of a simple wire of copper and in line with that is the transformer coil, a big honkin toroid coil transformer (NS is not strictly a toroid - I know that but it is a caduceus and goes in a doubled way sort of like a toroid, I think) Then the transformer secondary lights a light. All from a spark hitting the magnet acting like a make and break switch based on tuned frequency
The core piece is our magnet
one of the copper wires (Cu5) makes the spark to the magnet (core piece)
as it does this the voltage pulses from 0.14v to zero -- fast
(as does luc's, I assume which then causes the voltage to rise in the secondary?)
all it needs is a little moisture to make the self battery start.
so,
now to tune the wire.
and turn a secondary.
??
maybe??
jeanna
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You said in his latest design it didn't have a capacitor but the link you give shows a schematic at the top of the page that has a capacitor. Do you have a link for his latest circuit?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4124.0.html
I keep visualizing the ns battery functioning like a long descending pipe of water. Funny because my water supply comes from a 2KM 32mm tube going downhill. Maybe it's why I keep seeing the function of the battery the same. There is a lot of energy coming down this tube of water but there seems to be an extra amount of energy created if you put a value in the middle of this flow and then close it rather quickly. The descending water wants to keep descending but the closed valve makes it impossible so it creates some type of high energy vacuum inside the pipe on that side of the valve. On the other side a lot of pressure will build up but the vacuum side seems to open a door for a lot of energy. You can see here what it does to metal pipes designed to absorb this energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_hammer
I always see water as a physical representation of electrical flow and it's easy to see the water counterpart to things like resisters, capacitors ect. So if this can happen with water maybe the abrupt shut off of electricity can produce the same effect and open the door to absorb the electrical potential around it.
-
As I think I have mentioned, I have been thrashing about looking for some of the missing elements that will add to my ideas about how to extract power from this generator.
IMHO We will NEVER get anywhere as long as we are still trying to use this as a battery.
The trouble is, we are still trying to raise the power through galvanic means just to get started.
I think Luc gotoluc has got the idea we need. Please look at his whole (2 page) thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4124.0.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4124.0.html)
and watch the very clear videos.
Today he posted his newest video. In this video he includes all the elements we have been using and which are inherent in just the NS generator as it is.
I will let you watch it before I go on. I asked him for a drawing of today's circuit, just to be sure.
------------
One of the things that have been bothering me lately is that NS used iron and copper. He did not use zinc plated iron. He even said soft iron. This only gives 0.14vdc, which is very low voltage.
I knew we were going down a different road from the beginning on this point, but it didn't matter at first. I needed to get my hands on this coil to begin to understand it. I am happy with how much I have learned so far, but when I couldn't see the spark forming from the spark gap I set up on one of my coils, I just didn't know where to move next.
OK
Have a look and see if you don't see some clues we can use.
jeanna
Jeanna
If you havn't seen it yet here is a site that has quite a bit of information
The guy with this web site seems to collect information .......It is clear that he doesn't have first hand information on all this stuff
What may be directly related to your post ..........chapter 5 page 4 shows a Bedini motor ......it uses a bifilar coil.
Page 5 explains that the rotor is helpful but not required , The coil may be made to self oscillate.
gary
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Gary,
Did I miss the link? I don't know what site you are referring to??
@Storre
So if this can happen with water maybe the abrupt shut off of electricity can produce the same effect and open the door to absorb the electrical potential around it.
Yes. (People have shown this.)
Now, one of the most interresting times I had this winter was when Koen opened a thread called "wild and crazy caduceus coil" - or something like that. I think in half baked.
I saw immediately that the caduceus is a NS generator. It is a double headed snake with 2 fangs at each head. While discussing this I had to explain to those who had never built one, that
1- the coil as wound from top to bottom is wound one way but
2- if you follow the path from the other end the coil wraps the opposite way.
So, if you create a spark gap between the ends of the 10's, for instance, the current will oscillate naturally.
I created a hair's breath spark gap between 2 wires on my coil made on a pipe. This pipe behaved differently in that the South pole was opposite all the others and also even though the voltage did decline over time, it did it less than the others. I don't know if this is why.
I have no way to quantify these observations and I only mentioned them in passing, just in case someone else wanted to pick up on it. No one ever did. OK.
I also was never able to see a spark. It is very possible that the spark was there and was too small and short, but again I cannot show it.
The other oddment I have seen and will now go repeat, is that if I strike the wires together or maybe one wire to the core, the meter will show an increase in voltage until I stop striking. (very much like what luc is doing in his videos.)
This now makes sense because luc is striking a magnet and the iron wire and the core both become magnetized. etc.
see?
What luc did yesterday is he verified in his set up what I saw in mine. He later said the transformer doesn't need to be a toroid. so, here we are. We have all the elements.
BTW, at the end of the second page of luc's thread, in response to my request for the circuit he drew out the one without the capacitor. It is the one that looks like what we have, (not the first drawing ).
I am inclined to get a transformer that is rated 120 to 3 volts and use a pair of AA's to repeat luc's thing. In order to do this, I hope a flashlight light bulb will do. I might skip that and try with my 0.5v NS generator too.
But for a few hours today, I think I need to be in my garden.
jeanna
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Gary,
Did I miss the link? I don't know what site you are referring to??
Oppps Sorry
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/
chapter 5 pages 4 and 5
gary
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Just a quick report on my progress (or lack of) :-)
I added 13 meters to my coil which almost reaches
.701V
0mA
It's 26M of 2.1mm winding with copper covered in very tight cotton tubing and zinc coated iron bare and wound very tight.
I'm testing with one probe on iron and the other on copper with the other ends left open. Will try burying it see if it makes a difference.
I will try to hook up the reed switch again but I suspect, like with the 13M coil, it will not be enough amps to create the electromagnet. Not sure how big these things have to get before they will produce enough to create the electromagnet or if needs a capacitor inline to build up the charge and release it in bursts. Thrapp did mention a capacitor in his interview online here.
Anyone here have any ideas on the capacitor values best to try for low power like this?
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Storre:
I used a 5.5v .22F supercap and it works great! I actually had better results with it on the electrode set-up but it can charge up in a short time and light an led by itself for almost 2 hours. I found some 5F caps I want to get. They are fun to play around with. These will replace batteries (supercaps) very shortly in my opinion.
Bill
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Anyone here have any ideas on the capacitor values best to try for low power like this?
Hi Storre,
I cannot answer that question, but that subject is the reason I did the research on the RLC circuits and I posted the link somewhere to Barry's RLC website.
I found that from a search for coil guns and related info.
It is closely related because we are wanting to use what we have and to get it to pulse by an oscillation. That RLC circuit is an oscillation circuit.
Now, the reason I have been asking for someone who has an oscilloscope to make a coil is so we can know the approximate frequency of a given amount of copper wound on a coil when it is closely wound with iron as a bifilar wire, so we can (I can) go from there.
I am again placing my request for this.
Thank you,
jeanna
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Thanks Jeanna and Pirate :)
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@ All:
Sorry I have been away for a while. I have not given up! I still have some ideas that I will share shortly so stand by.
I stumbled on something I am looking into and will share once I learn more about it. In the meantime, I hope all of your experiments go better than planned. Keep up the great work here. Thanks.
Bill
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?and I'm sill here and preparing to rewind my coil using the cotton tubing on both wires.
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@ All:
One of the ideas I am playing with involves the bifilar coil, but shaped in a circular configuration. Not like the TPU but almost. This shape could be about 300 degrees around as opposed to 360. Like a circle with a small piece missing. We could then place these into the ground in a horizontal position instead of vertical. What advantages there might be I can only guess at this point. I was also thinking that one could "stack" these in a series connection that might actually work. (Think about stacking these on yet another iron center core.....like horseshoes around a stake)
The rotation of the magnetic fields in the stacked position might actually build upon and feed off each other. Then again, they may actually cancel each other to some degree.
Just some free thinking here. I will build several in the near future.
Bill
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@ All:
One of the ideas I am playing with involves the bifilar coil, but shaped in a circular configuration. Not like the TPU but almost. This shape could be about 300 degrees around as opposed to 360. Like a circle with a small piece missing. We could then place these into the ground in a horizontal position instead of vertical. What advantages there might be I can only guess at this point. I was also thinking that one could "stack" these in a series connection that might actually work. (Think about stacking these on yet another iron center core.....like horseshoes around a stake)
The rotation of the magnetic fields in the stacked position might actually build upon and feed off each other. Then again, they may actually cancel each other to some degree.
Just some free thinking here. I will build several in the near future.
Bill
Bill
Sounds interesting
I am courious about why you plan to leave a piece of the toroid open
gary
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@ All:
One of the ideas I am playing with involves the bifilar coil, but shaped in a circular configuration. Not like the TPU but almost. This shape could be about 300 degrees around as opposed to 360. Like a circle with a small piece missing. We could then place these into the ground in a horizontal position instead of vertical. What advantages there might be I can only guess at this point. I was also thinking that one could "stack" these in a series connection that might actually work. (Think about stacking these on yet another iron center core.....like horseshoes around a stake)
The rotation of the magnetic fields in the stacked position might actually build upon and feed off each other. Then again, they may actually cancel each other to some degree.
Just some free thinking here. I will build several in the near future.
Bill
@Pirate88179
Bill;
Hey I really, really want to help you all out, but lets do it offline and what you do with it is your business, ex PI to current PI.
drstiffler at embarqmail dot com
Thanks Bill
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Gary:
The way I see it, and of course I am just guessing, I don't want it to be a continuous coil as I believe it will "short" itself on the core. (the core ends essentially touching each other as in a complete circle) I am picturing a coil like we have built but, bend it into an almost complete circle such that the "top" end of the core almost but does not touch the "bottom" end.
Think of it like this: If we built 4 coils in our regular construction style (straight) and laid them down on the ground in a square shape so the cores ends all touched each other, I don't think this would work and this would be essentially what you would have with a continuous circle. (does this make any sense?)
The main thing I am going after is to direct the magnetic fields into an almost circular pattern whereby they could then be stacked, and positioned to "tune" the magnetic filed by rotating each layer individually. An afterthought was to add yet another large iron core into the center of the stack itself. So you would have the circular core with the bifilar windings all surround another iron core intersecting at 90 degrees. This may or may not help, it was just a thought.
In looking over my "explanation" here, it sounds confusing even to me. (and I wrote it) I will try to make up yet another very crude sketch and post it for your thoughts. I am leaving for work now but will get to it when I can.
This all might be a bunch of nothing. I just thought it might be a way to concentrate the magnetic fields and add a slight "tuning" ability to them.
Bill
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Here is a very crude, quick sketch. I'll make a better one later....hopefully.
Bill
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Here is a very crude, quick sketch. I'll make a better one later....hopefully.
Bill
Bill
I don't know if the core in the center will help
It is my understanding that one of the things that makes a toroid work well is that if it is wound carefully pretty much all the flux stays in the core .
I think it would be interesting to test coils like that in the same ways you tested rods in the ground
If the energy currents in the earth get transfered into the core they may get amplified by the windings .
gary
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@ Gary:
Yes, I am hoping for something like that to happen. As for the center core, as I said, it was just an afterthought that comes under the heading of ....hey, what if.....? I have no basis to think it will do anything positive and it might have the opposite effect, or none at all. I guess I am looking for that breakthrough and, well, you know how it is, no crazy idea is left without consideration.
When my Dad passed away, I received his very expensive and sensitive Omega meter. It also tests thermocouples as well. I am hoping to be able to pick up subtle changes in output when rotating the different layers of coils in relation to their gaps. Maybe the gaps all need to be lined up, or maybe staggered 180 degrees, or maybe something other than that. Maybe none of it will make any measurable difference at all. I just want to find out. Thanks.
Bill
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@ Gary:
Yes, I am hoping for something like that to happen. As for the center core, as I said, it was just an afterthought that comes under the heading of ....hey, what if.....? I have no basis to think it will do anything positive and it might have the opposite effect, or none at all. I guess I am looking for that breakthrough and, well, you know how it is, no crazy idea is left without consideration.
When my Dad passed away, I received his very expensive and sensitive Omega meter. It also tests thermocouples as well. I am hoping to be able to pick up subtle changes in output when rotating the different layers of coils in relation to their gaps. Maybe the gaps all need to be lined up, or maybe staggered 180 degrees, or maybe something other than that. Maybe none of it will make any measurable difference at all. I just want to find out. Thanks.
Bill
Sounds interesting
I would think that the coils should be able to pick up earth currents better than rods
gary
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Gary and all:
Here should be a picture of another related design idea that I will try first. The parts are easier/cheaper to locate. If nothing else, this design allows for a greater overall mass to be placed in a smaller space. There is nothing adjustable in this design as of yet but, I am hopeful that the total mass will drive up the mA output while utilizing less space than the straight coil design. We will see. Any thoughts?
Bill
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Gary and all:
Here should be a picture of another related design idea that I will try first. The parts are easier/cheaper to locate. If nothing else, this design allows for a greater overall mass to be placed in a smaller space. There is nothing adjustable in this design as of yet but, I am hopeful that the total mass will drive up the mA output while utilizing less space than the straight coil design. We will see. Any thoughts?
Bill
Bill
I don't have any idea if that would make a better coil
It does look like it would be very hard to wind .
I have also been thinking of how to get the most bang for the buck
Toroids are interesting they seem to concentrate the magnetic flux .
What about making a toroidal stubblfield coil ?
The core could be made of iron wire .
Of course ....... that wire should be insulated to prevent eddy currents .
SO ......we would have in effect a core of iron magnet wire ...........why not keep the ends out and see if any current developes in the core itself ? .............Or what happens when the core is pulsed .
It may open whole new possibility's
I have did a little testing
If I am right shellac was one of the original insulators used for magnet wires .
I have tested a little wire .
I used a 3 pound coil of rebar tie wire .
The coil of wire can be laid on its side and " rolled " in place with a shallow tray of shellac next to it .
It is a real pain to try to do long lengths like this ...
I have some ideas for a semi- auto coater .....not sure when I can get to it
The rebar tie wire comes slighttly oily ......the shellac l doesn't seem to mind the oil
The insulation seems to be good .......and farily tuff .......
haven't checked it for high voltage yet .
gary
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Gary:
The only problem I see with using shellac for insulation is that it will not pass water like the cotton will. The moisture is part of the key I think. Otherwise, we could just use regular plastic insulated wire which we all agree would be sooooo much easier to wind.
Yes, winding the spring would be a super pain in the a** but worth it if it does anything good. If it doesn't, I am going to be pissed!!!! Ha ha ha.
Bill
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Gary:
The only problem I see with using shellac for insulation is that it will not pass water like the cotton will. The moisture is part of the key I think. Otherwise, we could just use regular plastic insulated wire which we all agree would be sooooo much easier to wind.
Yes, winding the spring would be a super pain in the a** but worth it if it does anything good. If it doesn't, I am going to be pissed!!!! Ha ha ha.
Bill
Bill
The windings would be insulated with cotton
Only the core windings would be shellac
gary
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Bill
The windings would be insulated with cotton
Only the core windings would be shellac
gary
I am thinking of trying a coil with a core like this for the plasma / water engine
The coils for it would both be copper magnet wire .
DC through one wire .........and output from the other
The ignition coil connected to the core .
gary
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Hi fellow winders ;) ,
Bill and Gary, I like both of your ideas.
I think the compound Stubblefield coil is worth a try.
I also think shellac is a great thought.
I think shellac is going to be interesting with high voltage. and it is alcohol solved so it will combine well enough with the oil so that oil won't be a problem.
I remember 2 water related things about shellac.
1- shellac makes a great water vapor barrier for first coat of paint in the north east.
2- when my mother shellaced the coffee table the shellac would always absorb enough water from the rim of a glass that there would be a ring. The ring would eventually fade, I think as the vapor evaporated.
I knew some violin makers that were testing what they thought to be ancient varnish. They were using linseed oil that had been allowed to polymerize for a while sitting in the sun in a window for 2 years etc.
Linseed oil has interesting properties when it comes to water too.
@Storre:
Did you have any luck with your nc reed switches? anything at all?
I may not contribute for a while, but I am still looking. I am building a ferro-cement greenhouse dome this summer and it is a lot of work. And while I plaster the cement I am thinking about e's and m's and HHO a little too.
thank you all,
jeanna
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Hi fellow winders ;) ,
Bill and Gary, I like both of your ideas.
I think the compound Stubblefield coil is worth a try.
I also think shellac is a great thought.
I think shellac is going to be interesting with high voltage. and it is alcohol solved so it will combine well enough with the oil so that oil won't be a problem.
I remember 2 water related things about shellac.
1- shellac makes a great water vapor barrier for first coat of paint in the north east.
2- when my mother shellaced the coffee table the shellac would always absorb enough water from the rim of a glass that there would be a ring. The ring would eventually fade, I think as the vapor evaporated.
I knew some violin makers that were testing what they thought to be ancient varnish. They were using linseed oil that had been allowed to polymerize for a while sitting in the sun in a window for 2 years etc.
Linseed oil has interesting properties when it comes to water too.
@Storre:
Did you have any luck with your nc reed switches? anything at all?
I may not contribute for a while, but I am still looking. I am building a ferro-cement greenhouse dome this summer and it is a lot of work. And while I plaster the cement I am thinking about e's and m's and HHO a little too.
thank you all,
jeanna
Jeanna
I didn't think about the shellac absorbing water
That is bound to affect the insulation ability at least a little .
ferro-cement greenhouse dome
This is not a combination I would have thought of
I hope you post a picture of it some day .
gary
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@Bill
Here is a link to info from a guy who made a working device in a style that sounds like what you were describing yesterday.
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/hanscoler.htm (http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/hanscoler.htm)
Hans Coler is his name.
go for it.!!
--
(Gary- I am making the greenhouse dome out of ferrocement in an attempt to hold some thermal mass. It shouldn't get over heated as all glass greenhouses do, and in the winter it should keep the sun's warmth for a longer time than glass.
I will have the windows directed to pick up more winter than summer sun.)
-------------
@ Storre,
I would like to ask you to try something I cannot do with my smaller coils.
If there is a spark gap that can flash a spark between the 2 wires called 10 then I think the natural resonance of the coil will come alive and the coil will produce an oscillation.
I tried this on my hollow coil. It had a fairly long set of wires but they were thin. I could never see a spark, but if the frequency is too high, and it may be, then it would be there but ubdetectable by my eyes etc. and without an oscilloscope, I cannot see it with an instrument.
My digital multimeter gives a hint that it may be there.
Anyway, since your coil is made of long and fattish wires, I am asking you to perform the experiment I cannot do (unless I invest in more wire.)
BTW, did you make a large secondary for that coil?
thank you,
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Thanks...I will check it out. Best of luck to you with the greenhouse. It sounds like a great design. It's about time people designed buildings with energy in mind beforehand instead of an afterthought as they all do now. Good for you!!!
@ Gary:
OK. (about the insulation for the core) I think Stubblefield used wood at times for the core insulation. I think I remember Jeanna posting that a while ago. Hans, I believe, said he was using heat shrink tubing or something like that for his. I guess the moisture/electrolyte does not need to reach the core, and might possibly even be better if it did not.
You are correct about the spring/coil configuration design being a bitch to wind. I have gone over it in my head while falling asleep for several nights and when I visualize it......it will be hard!!!
@ Storre:
I still am not convinced that we have enough power/volts to properly operate a spark gap of any kind as of yet. But, I am hoping someone will prove me wrong.
Bill
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@ Gary:
OK. (about the insulation for the core) I think Stubblefield used wood at times for the core insulation. I think I remember Jeanna posting that a while ago. Hans, I believe, said he was using heat shrink tubing or something like that for his. I guess the moisture/electrolyte does not need to reach the core, and might possibly even be better if it did not.
Anyone have any idea how thick the wood insulation was ?
It seems strange to me to use wood when cotton would be easier .
You are correct about the spring/coil configuration design being a bitch to wind. I have gone over it in my head while falling asleep for several nights and when I visualize it......it will be hard!!!
I can't see any way to wrap it other than starting with small coils of wire and splicing whenever you need to .
gary
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@ jeanna:
I will do what you ask but need to wait till next week. It's vacation month where I am and difficult to do non vacation type of stuff ;-)
I need to rewind my coil using cotton tubing on both wires and no other insulation. RIght now I think it's shorting out between layers.
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@Jeanna.
Coler that is another Pricipe of inventions.
In front of WW2 HE have constucted "made in Germany" an working devices that powered his labor an living-rooms. with 7,5 kW.
In the last Days of war an 75KW motor was working in PEENEM?NDE (also Werher v. Braun worked here !)
This Motor was developed with free energy for "air-carft" and worked fine!.
The last days of WAR al this have stopped all works in Penem?nde.
Some patents comes to the "british "winner".Possible is that the most is not opened , lost or surpressed.
Pese
All information from "serios german links in the WEB.
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Coler patent and some assorted pics if anyone is interested http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item101
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Joe:
Thanks for posting this. I just wish I understood more about how it might work. I will google and see what I might find that might explain more about this guy's devices.
Bill
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Thanks Joe for providing the actual patent pics.
Bill,
You mentioned last week or so, that you would like to try to put your coils into a ring formation etc.
I thought of this guy Coler.
He got it to make free power and the english government tested him/it for fraud. That investigation report is what is on the link I provided.
Apparently it took a long time fussing with the exact placement; and also there were 2 stages. In the first stage it started to produce a tiny amount, but once that was started he moved other things around or spread the whole ring apart a little until it produced a lot.
permanent magnets each surrounded by a coil of wire set into a ring.
There is a pattern here.
well anyway, for what it is worth...
jeanna
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I didn't label it right guys but the hyper link above the pat pics is for the patent itself and i uploaded it to this sites downloads section for easy access .
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Just a quick note to say I am still here and still thinking. (A dangerous thing to do)
I found a reasonable source for 400F supercaps! I will try to post a link below.
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/90424-capacitor-ultra-400f-2-7v-radial-eshsr-0400c0-002r7.html (http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/90424-capacitor-ultra-400f-2-7v-radial-eshsr-0400c0-002r7.html)
(http://rocky.digikey.com/weblib/Nesscap/Web%20photos/ESHSR-0400C0-002R7.jpg)
I think these might be fun to play with.
Bill
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but John Bedini had some intresting things to say on this subject. Also Bill Beatty's thoughts on "energy sucking antennas".
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reddy:
Yes, I am familiar with Bedini's work, very good stuff there. I am not familiar with Beatty's work so I will google him. Thanks for the tip.
Bill
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Hi there folks,
I am about to build my first Stubblefield cell and would very much like to see a recap of your long posts on the subject. Like all long post, not all is relevant. I have read a good part so far but it is a bit hard to follow as everyone mixes in ideas and concepts not related to this particular model of energy cell.
The general description is: a special design cell battery harnessing electricity from telluric (ground) currents or in other ways or a combination of sources.
The patent description is: a bifilar coil wounded in a specific way around a soft iron core that produces a steady stream of usable energy. A control coil surrounds the cell when used in earth battery application as a selenoid or a cell conditioner. Once the cell is conditioned, the electrical loop starts flowing and should produce useful energy for a long period of time.
So far I have collected all the data that I found relevant, reconstructed on paper the patent from its different ideas and made all the building sketches. The parts are nearly all collected and the assembly will begin soon after. The coil will be 5" long x 2" wide bifilar awg 20 of 600 turns, the soft iron core is a 5/8" x 10" long grade 5 bolt with nuts and washers The control coil will be made of 3,000 feet of awg 25 magnet wire.
What works and what not? What has been tried? Who made the exact patent cell replication and what were the results? Thanks.
Take care all and keep searching,
Michel
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Michel:
Welcome to our group. I am sorry to say that the best way to see what we have tried, and what has worked, and to what degree, is to read the previous posts of this topic, as well as Localjoe's original topic. Yes, we have drifted around a bit but, that is why I started this topic, for the speculation part of it. Joe's topic sticks more on point to the original earth battery experiments using electrodes as well as bifilar coils.
As I recall, the best results with the coil replication were somewhere near 90 mA's at about 1 vdc. You mentioned using magnet wire on your control. Keep in mind all wire must be uninsulated to the point that moisture can flow between the iron and cu wires as well as the core. We have been using different variations of cotton as Stubblefield did.
In my opinion, I think the most fascinating part of the work I have done is using a supercap to capture the energy and then, use it like a battery to light an led or whatever.
I have still not figured out the coil configurations to a decent level of understanding. My large coil is still buried out in the garden but is dead as of yesterday. I have not dug it up yet but i am convinced it was due to my addition of a generous amount of vinegar to increase the output. It worked really well...for a while. I think that had I not done that, my coil would still be doing its thing.
Please keep us posted of your efforts and also, post photos if you can. If you have any additional questions, I'll try to help out the best I can.
Bill
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Thanks Pirate88179,
I will check on Joe's topic and try to narrow down the best way to make it work as intended.
Take care.
Michel
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Hi everyone,
I did some reading (Page 8 so far) on the interesting Stubblefield Cell post by localjoe. Very nice since the pace is much faster than live. You can also skip unrelated discussions.
I will first try to sum up some of my ideas of the Stubblefield Cell functioning as I see it from the Patent then how I intend to proceed. Maybe jumpstart a few new ideas.
The sketches showed in the patent represent an electrolytic ?magnetic capacitor?. Two of the coils ends are out but not used (intended) in the single cell or battery model.
The secondary coil is very important if the cell is a ?magnetic capacitor?. It is first used as a cell conditioner and second as a solenoid as mentioned in the patent but it was not clearly related. It jumpstarts the next cycle by intensifying the South pole magnetic antenna. It also has to be big to give strong enough bemf re magnetize the south antenna to a sufficient level and supply the load with the building magnetic field from the core. A little output will be noted on the load terminals or the cell during conditioning. This has to be used (dissipated).
The cell has to be conditioned until it starts producing real energy by connecting to a telluric current capillary and induce self oscillation when the control (conditioner or secondary) coil is connected to the unused wire ends from the bemf. This part is still in the working.
The ferrous core has to be conditioned so the end touching the ground or water becomes a South pole or a North pole depending if it is anode or cathode. A pointed tip is not optimal. Based on Howard Johnson's "The Secret World of Magnets".
The cells need to be at a good distance from each others and depth is of no importance. Telluric current ?capillaries? attracts and repels each others.
To connect two cells in series, connect the outside wires to the outside wire of the other cell free ends as usual. The center taps of the bifilar coil connect to secondary coil or conditioner coil or solenoid.
So I plan to proceed as such:
Build a Stubblefield cell as per the Patent.
Insert in soil or moist the bifilar coil.
Pulse the secondary coil at 60 hz in such a way (pulsed dc) as to obtain a South pole in the ground and North pole outside. (You might catch your utility overflow). :)
Use electronic to monitor the start of the battery and insert a load after it has done so while switching the secondary coil to cell's center taps.
Wait till the anode and/or cathode connects to one of the telluric current capillary.
Pursue other venues while waiting.
Awaiting your comments,
Michel
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As I was reading on the Stubblefield post, I read that people try many different material to achieve greater output. I just realize that the water in his cell might just be mandatory and I explain:
The Stubblefield cell's core and one of the bifilar are of the same type iron and the other one is insulated copper.
The use of moisture or water or wet ground helps promote the formation of iron oxyde and at a molecular level, it performs as a transistor.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18190349
We have measured in situ the electronic conductance spectra of the passive film formed on an Fe electrode immersed in a borate buffer solution using electrochemical tunneling spectroscopy (ECTS) and electrochemical impedance spectroscopy (EIS) techniques, and we have followed their changes as the electrode is electrochemically oxidized and reduced. We demonstrate that pre-passive Fe(II) oxide and the passive Fe(II)/Fe(III) film, behave as p- and n-type semiconductors, respectively and that their reversible inter-conversion is mediated by the availability of free charge carriers on the electrode surface. ECTS spectra have been also modeled to obtain the main electrochemical kinetic parameters of the electron transfer through both p-Fe(II) and n-Fe(III) oxides at different sample potentials and pHs values. We find that the electronic energy barrier in the oxide and its dependence with electrode potential and solution pH, determine the reactivity and passivity of iron.
I remember reading that one of the property of iron oxide is that it filters high frequencies and also it being used with boron in magnet compound. Maybe it should be worth investigating?
What little else I have found point there too Iron oxyde and iron is magnetite:
Magnetite is a ferrimagnetic mineral with chemical formula Fe3O4, one of several iron oxides and a member of the spinel group. The chemical IUPAC name is iron(II,III) oxide and the common chemical name ferrous-ferric oxide. The formula for magnetite may also be written as FeO.Fe2O3, which is one part w?stite (FeO) and one part hematite (Fe2O3). This refers to the different oxidation states of the iron in one structure, not a solid solution.
The Curie temperature of magnetite is about 580?C. Magnetite is the most magnetic of all the naturally occurring minerals on Earth, and these magnetic properties led to lodestone being used as an early form of magnetic compass. Magnetite typically carries the dominant magnetic signature in rocks, and so it has been a critical tool in paleomagnetism, a science important in discovering and understanding plate tectonics. The relationships between magnetite and other iron-rich oxide minerals such as ilmenite, hematite, and ulvospinel have been much studied, as the complicated reactions between these minerals and oxygen influence how and when magnetite preserves records of the Earth's magnetic field.
Magnetite has been very important in understanding the conditions under which rocks form and evolve. Magnetite reacts with oxygen to produce hematite, and the mineral pair forms a buffer that can control oxygen fugacity. Commonly igneous rocks contain grains of two solid solutions, one between magnetite and ulvospinel and the other between ilmenite and hematite. Compositions of the mineral pairs are used to calculate how oxidizing was the magma (i.e., the oxygen fugacity of the magma): a range of oxidizing conditions are found in magmas and the oxidation state helps to determine how the magmas might evolve by fractional crystallization.
Small grains of magnetite occur in almost all igneous rocks and metamorphic rocks. Magnetite also occurs in many sedimentary rocks, including banded iron formations. In many igneous rocks, magnetite-rich and ilmenite-rich grains occur that precipitated together from magma. Magnetite also is produced from peridotites and dunites by serpentinization.
Magnetite is a valuable source of iron ore. It dissolves slowly in hydrochloric acid.
From the first paragraph of document: http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EAE03/13495/EAE03-J-13495-1.pdf
Iron oxide (w?stite) is an archetypal compound in the family of simple transition metal. oxides, being known as Mott insulators.
That would solve another riddle, modern insulated copper wire should work.
Hope I'm still tinking right, ;D
Take care,
Michel
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And I thought I was going to sleep. >:(
If iron oxyde filters high frequencies, it will filter the magnetic bubble created by the bemf. So his cell filters unwanted high frequencies pulsed which makes it a rectifier.
I think I am overenginering the Stubblefield cell.
Good night,
Michel
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And I thought I was going to sleep. >:(
I think I am overenginering the Stubblefield cell.
Good night,
Michel
Welcome Michael,
why sleep when you can wrap a stubblefield generator? ;D
Please go ahead and overengineer this thing. I think we have thoroughly exhausted the galvanic elements and no matter what else we did we couldn't get beyond this.
I am very interested to watch your progress. I think you may have some fresh ideas that will get something going now.
To me, this thing "felt" like a transistor, so I will particularly want to follow that.
I will be away til monday , but please keep reporting.
My only or first question is that I noticed you mentioned the center of the bifilar wire, I assume this means you twist the copper and the iron wires together to produce this?
Earlier we decided to copy the way the patent named the wires. The unconnected ones he (NS) called 10'2 and later he called the other end of the copper wire the 5 and the other end of the iron wire the 6. I usually call these the 5cu and 6fe or something like that so people unused to this will have a clue.
so, according to this nomenclature, you are twisting the 5cu and the 6fe together and leaving the 10's open?
Again welcome.
jeanna
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Hi jeanna,
I think I have a tentative scenario.
The 5 and 6 which are the outer terminals on the cell. It is where the load is connected. The two center taps (10) are left open during conditioning of the "cell" but are connected to the control coil after the cell is live. The cell acts like a capacitor that charges from below, and discharges in a load above. When the capacitor discharge, there is a strong bemf that is looped in the control coil that re magnetize the core oppositely possibly alternating between North and South attracting opposite telluric capillaries that blast the core with a strong magnetic current that restart the cycle. Creating possibly the ac effect noticed by some.
The other possibility is that the back emf that race down the primary coil magnetize the core and the back emf rolling around the control coil sucks in the fresh load of telluric current that starts a new cell cycle. That would give pulsed dc.
I was just looking back at the Patent for reference and noticed the lower tip of the cell. the small protrusion of the threaded end with the nut shows an ideal profile for a "look down" probe. Designed that way or coincidental. There you go, more over engineering... ;D
I am kind of ready to start building, just missing one component. I will get it next week and go from paper to product. When it is done, I'll set it and condition it for a while monitoring the output for live action safely inside. ;D
Take care and have a nice weekend,
Michel
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More over engineering,
As mentioned in the Patent and that just flashed, the cell can be used with the secondary coil attached to the center taps ( 10 ) or without the secondary coil attached to them.
That would give the possibility of higher dc voltage not pulsed as the cells are set in anode cathode pairs.
That makes many scenarios to study. Pulsed DC, DC and AC. Only an analog multimeter can make sense out of this. Digital will be useless and depressing.
Take care,
Michel
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It's funny that when I reread myself after a post ideas sprout.
That would give the possibility of higher dc voltage not pulsed as the cells are set in anode cathode pairs.
There are also two possibilities in that scenario.
One come from connecting for high dc current, the two 5cu and the two 6fe terminals in parallel connection. Each cell is conditioned the same way but with reverse polarity.
The other where higher voltage is needed over higher current. Then you connect two or more cells in series.
That too has 2 possibilities.
You connect the 5cu of one cell with the 6fe of the other and use the 2 free posts for the load.
Or you connect the 5cu of one cell to the 10cu of the other cell and the 6fe to the 10fe in a resonant cell. There too is a possibility of alternating potential.
This Stubblefield cell is fascinating... What can I say. :o
Michel
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Re:
I think it is Pirate who posted the attached picture. a while ago. The blue pointed cells are huge.
4 Spikes welded one in each corner of a square beam with a big bifilar coil and the control coil over it. Just pretend that the whole cell sits on an optional platform. You have an iron core with a special bifilar coil Fe+Cu and an exciter coil. Maybe you need the moisture for the iron oxide, maybe not, that part is still a mystery but from what I recall, Tesla ran a car for many hours with a shoe box beside him with only coils and a dozen of vacuum tubes (diodes and rectifiers) inside. I have seen a few videos and old articles with these pretensions and all had in common iron/copper coils.
Maybe the ground has nothing to do with it. It is all in the MIND.
Happy research,
Michel
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Welcome michelzinho!
Looking at this today I wondered what you thought about the collapsing magnetic field.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/NWMkeys.htm
Seems that is the big key to tap into this other type (radiant?) energy.
My idea was to use a NC reed switch. I've got everything I need but have been a bit side tracked by John Bedini and Newman! :)
My coil is still next to me and I plan to rewind it with more wire and using cotton on both wires to avoid any possible shorting. I think mine is shorted somewhat now because I'm getting strange readings. It has cotton on the copper wire and the zinc coated iron wire is bare. I plan to use the cotton tubing on both and will report back soon. :)
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Hi storre ,
Looking at this today I wondered what you thought about the collapsing magnetic field.
I love collapsing fields and the nice bemf they produce. Here is what I see.
A coil is a big resistor. The bigger it gets the more it morphs into a capacitor. So you stuff it with full electrons and as few come out at the other end, they are compressed by the source of power. Then you suddenly remove the source of power and redirect the coil into an empty reservoir or the source. It captures the fast collapsing magnetic field into a potential much higher than the input as it is not restricted in its path by the same resistance when it moves to the reservoir and fading echoes follow. Back EMF are not over unity. It is energy that is otherwise not used.
But that has nothing to do with free energy and the Stubblefield cell but still fun to debate.
Take care,
Michel
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I've always seen the ns coil as a combination galvanic battery, electromagnet and with a reed switch (operating off the mf of the coil). When the energy builds up enough to create an electromagnet then because of the magnetic field, the reed switch will open and thus collapse the field which then causes the reed switch to close (it's natural state) and the the process repeats over and over. Then as this primary self pulses it creates an ac? current in the secondary single wire wound over it with much more turns than the primary.
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It could be a galvanic battery but the output would not match history of cell. The main energy input comes from the iron core tip, the galvanic action in the cell is much too low to be of any consequence. The moisture is I think used to promote rust so iron oxide which is an insulator would defeat the galvanic effect in a few weeks or months. The cell would lose efficiency fast.
It is an electromagnet when the control coil is connected to the open terminals of the cell the electrical circuit is closed. It is a weak electromagnet without the control coil because the bemf have nowhere to go, that means that it would fluctuate in its output and possibly be not very efficient.
The control coil is a magnetic switch for the electromagnetic effect of the 3 coils and the cell.
I wonder what he did to get even more efficiency in is later days...
Take care,
Michel
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I don't understand everything you are saying so I will wait for your replication. I'm very curious to see how you implement it with the ideas you have. Could be the keys we need!
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REX RESEARCH has a CD that has more good stuff than a candy factory. Well worth $13.00.
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Hi,
I am weary of Greeks bearing gifts (CDs that are full of free working designs and concepts). Most of the supposedly contraptions in these offering are puzzles that don't work as free energy devices. They are nearly freely donated because some think that gaining efficiency over regular results are overunity. It is not, it is only a gain in efficiency over an effect in the motor normally not recovered or known. Efficiency is based on the design, not just part of the design. A magnetic motor is a motor/generator. If you only look at the motor side only, it's easy to get "overunity" but the design made it a motor/generator and that is what must be considered as a references.
Radiant Energy is not unrecovered bemf but could come from them, and that is not proved.
You want to test stuff with real potential, test the old guard stuff. Tesla, Stubblefield, Johnson and all the other Free Energy legends. They made their stuff work, we just have not found the way. There ways are buried in the DOD archives.
Take care,
Michel
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I don't normally respond to people who are as brillant as yourself, but for the edification of those not so smart, this CD is filled with patents and accounts of events. I'm sure there wouldn't be anything there you wouldn't already know.
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RE:
The Stubblefield cell is one of the most successfully "Free Energy" device replicated by the likes of Tesla, Leedskalnin, Stubblefield, Moray and quite a few more. Those are proven working designs.
Galvanic action will never account for much is a certainty. Mechanical designs are tested all day long and I haven't seen any real gain in that field. So after studying the overall work done in this field, the Stubblefield cell is the best reproducible "Free Energy" device that is affordable to test and build.
I love Newman's motor because it is a very high efficiency motor design that minimizes the power it consumes but it will never give you free energy, just cheap labor. As for othe designs, it is give and take.
Take care,
Michel
P.S.: I try to stay in the Stubblefield state of mind in this post as some were reminded not to stray from subject of the cell.
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Michelinho:
Just for the record, no one here on this topic was ever warned to stay on the topic of the coils or electrodes only. I started this topic for the purpose of not polluting Joe's topic with other related/maybe not related ideas and devices.
It is my personal opinion that quite a few of the technologies discussed are indeed related. As you mentioned, Tesla, Stubblefield, Keely, Bedini, Newman, Leedskelnin, etc. (and probably many others)
I want folks to feel free to post ideas and experiments on things like...."What if I powered a Bedini motor with five Stubblefield coils?" Or other such possibly crazy and possibly brilliant ideas. I believe that is where any real breakthrough will come from. So, don't you, or anyone, shy away from discussing anything you think MIGHT be related. We are all in this together and it will probably take more than one mind and one experimenter to get great results.
You have obviously been into this area of energy research/experimentation for some time. I too look forward to seeing any results you may achieve. We need and welcome new blood into our group here. Feel free to post pics, videos, schematics, etc. In my opinion, a test device does not need to be completed to be interesting to the rest of the group. If only completed working devices were posted, there would be no overunity pictures anywhere.
I look forward to seeing what we can all achieve together.
Bill
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Hi Pirate,
I want folks to feel free to post ideas and experiments on things like...."What if I powered a Bedini motor with five Stubblefield coils?"
I agree 100% but I must say that we must first get a Stubblefield cell to work. If you build a Bedini motor, nice but to build it to be powered by something still eluding us makes the effort futile. You and all here have done a lot of work on the earth batteries but I must also say not as much on the Stubblefield cell. Maybe I sound bossy at times (I have a business management college degree and was managing the maintenance of a fleet 100 heavy haulers for 10 years) but it is not my pretension.
I have been spending the last 10 years following economic, political and scientific evolution toward a catastrophic depression (watching seismic and solar activities with great care too) and I can tell you that time is getting very short and we must sprint to the finish line. I am here to try to refocus the group for just
that reason. I am fighting for the survival of my family and friends so to say. I am sprinting now and have been for the last year. I've build a decent Newman motor (the alternator design is finalized will be driven by the Newman), I have a set of 8 x 6v batteries and a set of 6 x 12v, 2 x 1800/3500w 12v inverters, 3 75w 12v inverters, laptops and data (patents mainly) safely locked in a Faraday cage. Food and water for at least 2 years with 4 fridges and freezers that will run on the inverters. I also have spare magnet wire, a few rolls of electrical wire, spare neo magnets and many more things (Filters, masks and medications). That may hint you on why I may sound in a hurry at times. ;D
2 years ago I bought a Celestron CPC800 and a William Optics ZSII 80 because I want to be informed on any celestial events BEFORE one occurs. Sorry but I am not joking.
If anyone feels that I am out of line at any time, please say so, I will attempt to correct my state of mind. So if you feel that I should start another thread just suggest it. I am getting old and harder to offend. ;)
Take care,
Michel
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Re:
I must also point out that my son-in-law that does the electronic thinking has a pretty decent water cracking device that captures bemf to boost efficiency and I can humbly say that I have not seen many match or surpass his cell designs. He is not yet ready to share his findings. That I respect and wont discuss any of what he confides in me. I will report my findings without delay even if considered by many as premature and it proves to be BS.
That water cracking device is what will produce heat, work and water. I have the pool filled in the yard as reservoir (24 ft diam off ground) if it survives the shakes. I have a dehumidifier to capture water from the air once powered by the inverters. I live on in Eastern Canada and it is deamed safe by the Cayce's map.
In the many prophetic and religious writings around the World, it is said that we will live in harmony with men and nature after the end of the Iron Age. The next to come is the Golden Age, the Stubblefield Cell Age. LOL
I rate myself with a good survivability mark.
Take care,
Michel
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Hi Pirate,
I just got a flashback about your group testing different cotons.
Did you check with different kind of dyes on the coton?
As some dyes have more or less an iron content.
Just a thought,
Michel
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Re:
Last year I was researching batteries and studied the ancient design which were proven inadequate.
They may have been very wrong as they were made in red clay then and red clay has a very high iron content.
Even the Pyramid can be broken down to an energy power source. Strangely similar to the Stubblefield cell.
But that is another project,
Michel
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@ Michelinho:
Interesting point. I used an old cotton t-shirt that had been washed and bleached many times. I also used white cotton cord to insulate between the cu and the fe wires. This appeared to have been bleached and not dyed, but I can't really say for sure. My iron core was also zinc coated that may have also altered the experiment in some ways. I don't really think so but then again, I don't really know.
Bill
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Re:
Strange enough, the iron used in the making of the red color is iron oxide (ferrous oxide) and we also find that in the Stubblefield cell after it is moisturized. Also possibly a requisite in many other project involving iron compounds. Pyramids, and other energy taps.
Take care,
Michel
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To conclude,
A spit shined pyramid doesn't work.
I think that makes sense on the over the world research lack of success.
God made the brain in a mysterious way,
Michel
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The fe2O3 that I saw on my cell came from the oxidation of the iron wire, which I would expect after being exposed to moisture and then air. As you postulated earlier, possibly this is the "conditioning" Stubblefield had mentioned many times. Maybe we need a good layer on the iron parts to make them do what they are supposed to do. This was a good insight on your part. Again, I don't really know but it is possible that plays a part in all of this.
Bill
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The ancient were successful because they worked with what was available. Scrap.
When they get funding, the project dies for lack of success replication. You see the pattern.
As long as I recall, everyone successful that I know, not monetary speaking, worked with scraps and leftovers.
We need to rethink our way.
Michel
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Maybe a rusty rotor gives you more pizazz.
I hope this is tried. My Newman would not use this effect. >:(
Take care,
Michel
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One thing is left to resolve if the rest works.
How to condition the coil?
This is where I need help from everyone, I may dispel some of your inputs off hand or not, I will try to explain why, if not, ask. I don't expect to come out with a figured way for a while as I will have to ingest a lot of conflicting notions while my subconscious process the stew.
Conditioning at 7.8 Hz would be one way. I have a signal generator that will be useful here.
Take care all,
Michel
P.S.: I hope I am forgiven for the multi posts because that is how it comes out and when I do not mark it down, I forget it within minutes. And that puts more BRAINS on the job at hand. Thanks.
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Re: Pirate
I have still not figured out the coil configurations to a decent level of understanding. My large coil is still buried out in the garden but is dead as of yesterday. I have not dug it up yet but i am convinced it was due to my addition of a generous amount of vinegar to increase the output. It worked really well...for a while. I think that had I not done that, my coil would still be doing its thing.
If you have not done so yet, spread red earth around or iron filings. See what comes up in a week.
Take care,
Michel
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Just another flash.
A natural good antennae would be a tree with a high level of iron in its leaves or pins.
A Ponderosa Pine with a few buckets of iron filings to boost it.
The old ones threw old iron scraps in the hole before planting a coniferous.
Take care,
Michel
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Crap another flash...
You or someone mentioned a possible radioactive link.
Maybe he played with the stuff but there may be another solution that would fit the bill.
Iron in large quantity has a very strange effect on plants. Iron sclerosis and that would look like a radioactively contaminated field or close. All plants in a yellowish color with black necrosis spots.
Eating those and possibly playing with mercury and other substances his father was working with maybe the uranium ore is why his son died early.
Take care,
Michel
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As I was reading on the state of the nations, a strange thought formed.
The pyramid knowledge is not of this earth. It can't be if we look at the way it was mishandled. Electricity died with the pyramids and the Bagdad Battery. Those were the last memories of great accomplishments. The real crystal skulls, where ever they are. The great blue crystal of Atlantis, the flying ships in the Indian scriptures and Egyptian and Mayan as last recall.
I had to mention that to break the barriers of impossibility. I hate that word.
We see flying ships still but it is not us who control them.
Maybe we should change how we view reality.
Happy thinking,
Michel
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Re:
Rust or iron oxide could also explained the strange phenomenons surrounding Leedskalnin. Lifting rocks with rusty chains and rusty hoists. Floating rocks of great dimensions, were they still wrapped with rusty chains?
Sorry again for the ENORMOUS amount of posting and I apologize deeply.
Michel
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Hi all,
I think I could be on the right track according to one of Tesla's Patent. Letters Patent #433702
Electrical_Transformer_Or_Induction_Device.pdf
Here is the snippet:
A A is the main core of the transformer, composed of a ring of soft annealed and insulated or or oxidized iron wire.
Typical Tesla........ There is no galvanic effect in the Stubblefield Cell worth investigating as the effect will be stopped by the iron oxide formation.
I would guess that the TPU is the prime suspect for inquiring minds.
Happy replicating,
Michel
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Re all,
Yes, I am again posting as I think what may come out might be very interesting, specially those with chemistry knowledge.
The last flash just gave me the answer to why condition the cell and I explain in crude words as I have only basic knowledge in this field but my daughter is a Chemistry PHD in Crystallography. How handy....
Here it comes. I may be wrong but possibly not.
The conditioning could be a way to pack the Iron Oxide in crystal latices with unknown properties within the empty space inside the bifilar coil.
I would guess a continuous or pulsed input would probably have the same results.
I will try to talk to my daughter soon, her husband, my other son-in-law is a physicist, between both of them they may have a few answers to my questions.
Happy thinking take care,
Michel
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To recap: ;D
This is how I see the inner workings of a Nathan Stubblefield Cell. A Self Generating Induction Coil.
You build a Stubblefield cell exactly as in the Letters of Patent. With a Conditioning coil of good size small wire.
Wet your cell and pulse a source or not if you cant, I really think a stable magnetic field would do fine or better, I don't know. Yet... You may have to put a small load on the primary coil while conditioning, it might alter a few things. Again I don't know... Keep wet for a week. Or more or less... I don't know.
You attach a load to the cell, the cell will possibly stop when the load is disconnected, I don't know Yet.
You give a sharp jolt to the conditioning coil. The bolt in the center is to have the largest possible iron mass to hold the magnetic field. That one too is now rusted. Do not clean... ;D
The electrical path goes from the copper wire to the load and back to the iron winding with the strange crystal lattices that flashload the magnetic field to the copper wire that in turn feed the load. The control coil which is also hit by the flashload fires back into the load or it fires to a relay or other gimmicks.
There are many iron oxides and we don't know which will form in what proportions in the cell. I also now know that iron oxides are used everywhere in electronics. Crystal structures are very important in nature and found almost everywhere. Some Iron oxides look like small triangles or pyramids at the nano scale.
It could be supra conduction or a relative.
Some comments?
Take care all,
Michel
That the best way I can put it for now.
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Again over engineering.
The bifilar used also has a nice property, it does not produce an external magnetic field. So as I have seen in the sketches one shows a space at the top. Is it so to get some power to the conditioning or control coil. I think he mentioned that the conditioning/control coil is limited in its output capability. But it also has to be powerful for the jolt.
Take care,
Michel
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Re:
I just sent an email to my son-in-law who cracks water to prepare 2 electrodes for a test in one of his cell.
I told him to wrap 2 tight rows of cotton on the iron and 2 loose ones on top. Not to contaminate the cell with iron oxide. Pulse with his cell source for a week with the cotton kept moist and do a hydrolysis with those. I hope he has time to work on it this weekend and test next.
Now I am EXCITED.
Take care all,
Michel
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Michelinho:
Don't take this the wrong way. You have a lot of good ideas and theories. I would suggest that you begin replicating and posting your results. We have all been doing this for a while now and, as I have said previously, you have some good insights. I would like to see them put to the test in your own replications.
I read over in Joe's topic where you said we wound sloppy coils. Mine were not sloppily wound and neither were many others.
I guess what I am very politely trying to say is that we, as a group, have posted our experimental results, both good and bad, and we have made some very good progress. Once you build a coil, or coils, and equal or exceed our present state of the art, then I think a lot of people will begin to use some of your ideas that work. Until then, ideas are just that.
Jeanna, for example, has built and tested more coils than anyone else here. We have had at least 5 other people than myself that can light multiple LEDs from our cells. I know it is not much in the big scheme of things but, it works.
Speaking for myself, I look forward to your experiments and their results, no matter what they may be. This is not a competition, but a group effort. If you try a new idea and it fails terribly, then post that too and it will save others from going down that road. To me, failures are only stepping stones along the way to success. We are all open to new ideas and approaches here, but, I also think we would like to see some experimental input and results from new folks as well.
I look forward to yours. As I have said several times now, you have some very good ideas. Time to put them to the test.
Bill
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Hi Pirate,
As I said before, I need just one component to start and it is the soft iron wire. I have had my hands on some before when I was fixing diesel engine. It is the wire used to lock bolts on many parts of the motor, specifically the fuel pump. It is very pliable and has a dirty black finish. That comes in rolls of a few hundred of feet. I will have to check at a few truck part suppliers and go pick some. I have been out of that loop for 27 years.
As I said before starting to expose my project:
I will first try to sum up some of my ideas of the Stubblefield Cell functioning as I see it from the Patent then how I intend to proceed. Maybe jumpstart a few new ideas.
That is why I started posting. I know you have worked hard and the only project I have posted is my Newman motor. But I need to know where I am or could be wrong. If someone chalenges a part, I can asses some or the whole of my design.
So I will wait for a few assesments from the group.
Take care,
Michel
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Hi all,
The way of winding the coil is of the utmost importance in the Stubblefield cell.
If you look at the Patent's illustrations, the pattern of the winding and the size of the wires are identical, very well ordered and that is for a reason. When you compress wet cotton in a coil, the pressure can open the knitting and short the coil. The coil in the patent would probably drop in efficiency but would not stop. The pattern of the iron wire and that of the copper wire form discs in round alternating layers. All the columns are straight just like the rows. The closer they are to each other, the better it will perform and remember that a few thousand of an inch might give you 4 times less magnetic transfer. The cotton insulated copper wire must be the same size as the soft iron wire.
The pictures of his cell show that precision winding is part of the design. He shows years of labor and thinking.
Take care,
Michel
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I am posting this again slightly enlarged for clarity to avoid any confusion here. I did not use cotton insulated wire and I did not compress wet cotton. My fe and cu wires measured within .0015" diameter of each other. This 2 layered bifilar coil has put out 1.2 vdc @ 26mA's. (Best reading)
Next time, I believe I will grind off the zinc coating on the core before construction. As per Michel's suggestion, this would let the fe2o3 build up on the core as well as the iron wire and this might be a factor. The reason I used the zinc coated core was that it had the highest iron content of anything I could find locally.
I just didn't want anyone to be confused on the construction of my coils thus far.
Bill
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Hi all,
As I was reading an article on Magneto Hydro Dynamics, I fell on this passage:
http://www.steelguru.com/article/details/2008/08/05/NQ%3D%3D/Application_of_MHD_principles_and_their_advantage_on_liquid_fuel_such_as_petrol%25252C_diesel%25252C_LDO%25252C_HSD%25252C_FO_etc..html
Magnetic fields can affect this precipitation. It could change the size of particles of precipitated compounds, the ability of crystals to form, their shape and alter the solubility of compounds. An increase in the size of particles can have two beneficial effects. First, the larger crystals will not coagulate to form scale in the same way that the smaller crystals would. This is the purpose of the magnetic field. Secondly, the presence of the larger crystals disrupts the equilibrium between the fluid and any existing scale. Smaller particles, in general, dissolve more easily so larger particles will reduce the local concentration of calcite in the solution and remove the existing scale.
And this part at the end. It is for a different molecule but the effect would be more dramatic in a ferrous molecule.
Another possible explanation is the change in nuclei. Magnetic field modifies crystal nuclei. The nuclei on which the crystals start growing and growing crystallites are very small and have charges surfaces. As they pass through the magnetic field, these charged particles encounter considerable forces as the magnetic field interacts them. This distinguishes fluids treated magnetically from untreated fluids. The magnetic field acts at the surfaces of the crystallites, modifying the nature of the charges at the surface. This alters the growth of the crystals in general and on specific planes. The size of the crystal will change as the pattern of growth in the field alters. The ability to form crystals alters as the relative rate of growth of specific planes of the crystals respond to the magnetic field. This also changes the crystal?s shape. As the relative energy available to the growing crystals vary with and without the magnetic field, so will the crystal phase. In turn, as crystals grow differently, their solubility or levels of super saturation in fluid alters. This explains why scale starts to dissolve; the equilibrium between the fluid and the precipitate changes because crystals are growing in the different way. At the interface between solids and fluids, diffusion layer arise between the solution and the faces of the growing crystal. The growing faces each carry a distinctive charge and this is where magnetic field works
This also means that pulsing during conditioning would be detrimental. In the article it is mention for the calcium molecule, 3,000 Gauss field is minimal. I would guess less for a ferrous molecule.
The structure of the forming rust on the iron would promote sideways crystallization and repulse an inside to the outside growth of the crystaline structure if the coil is wounded exactly as the Letters of Patent. The repulsion of 2 wires with the identical potential flowing in the same direction.
A good conditioning would promote the growth of the crystaline structure of the ferrous oxide toward the copper wire. That could mean the cotton is there to stop it or control it. In the first a modern magnet wire would work and in the second case it would mean any semi permeable coating could do or would need a close approximate of what Stubblefield used. The wires of the time were pretty tightly wounded: one or more rows of organic material in rope form and then one or more knitted covering layers of organic material and sometimes a tar solution was used for waterproofing. Also fireproofing materials were used instead for special purpose.
Take care,
Michel
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This crystal structure theory is getting interesting to pursue.
If the crystalline structure growth is considered under a relatively strong magnetic field influence, it will grow out to fill the voids in the row structure of the coil lengthwise and also encasing the copper wire in a molecular grip for maximum magnetic transfer. May be the message was the bolt used, make a tight coil fitting your bifilar rows to match precisely by tightening or loosening the nut a quarter of a turn (more or less). When the coil is done winding, seal it outside with cotton, mica and/or silicone transformer tape or similar. A few rows should do and then tighten the nut a quarter turn to make sure the thing is tight and secure. It could also mean that a magnet wire is good to use or a waterproof cotton wrap could have been used in the original design. An avenue of search as to what kind of wire he used, check the old telegraph documents. They will mention insulated wires specs in regulations and Stubblefield knew about it and probably used the same general type of supplies. Tesla was used to scraps and high quality supply from his time at Westinghouse.
What strength of magnetic field to use during the conditioning, that is a good one for me as I have access to a Gauss meter and can recoil easy as the secondary is not ruled by such high standards.
On another subject, I received my high voltage power supply: 0-20v 5A and 0-350v .200A. Ideal for the tests on my Newman replication. Lucky for my cell project, I am not doing the testing as they may take a few weeks.
Take care,
Michel
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I am wondering if this effect.... combined with the magnetic field during conditioning....
Only a few can provide an answer... HELP!
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v39/i10/p6681_1
C. Y. Yang, S. M. Heald, J. M. Tranquada, Youwen Xu, Y. L. Wang, A. R. Moodenbaugh, D. O. Welch, and M. Suenaga
Department of Applied Science, Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, New York 11973
Received 16 November 1988
We present x-ray-absorption spectroscopy measurements of YBa2(Cu1-xFex)3O7-δ, x=0.015 to 0.15. Both near-edge features and extended x-ray-absorption fine-structure (EXAFS) results demonstrate that Fe preferentially substitutes for Cu(1) atoms at the linear-chain site. The compositional trend of these samples shows that the valence state of Fe (mainly +3, but the possible presence of small amounts of +2 and +4 cannot be ruled out) remains the same and Fe-O bond lengths change minimally in the light of changes in the lattice parameters with composition. Because of its sensitivity to coordination geometry, the reduction of the intensity of the 1s→3d edge feature indicates that the average coordination number of Fe nearest neighbors increases with increasing Fe content. EXAFS data analysis also finds an increase in the number of oxygen neighbors in the linear-chain plane, indicating an introduction of the extra oxygen atom on the vacancies of the a axis. Based on statistical considerations, we have examined the distribution of this extra oxygen atom as well as three possible Fe site coordination geometries (fourfold, fivefold, and sixfold).
?1989 The American Physical Society
URL: http://link.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v39/p6681
DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevB.39.6681
PACS: 74.70.Vy, 78.70.Dm, 71.20.-b
Take care,
Michel
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To recap:
Stefan what do you think of my theory?
Hans does it make any sense to pursue this route?
Anyone, isn't there something fishy in the Stubblefield cell as it as resisted so many assaults from replicators?
The thing has to work and many witnesses said so.
The only thing that can make it work continuously is supra conductivity. They knew it under another name, radiant energy.
Does that make sense?
When he went to his neighbor and told him he had improved his device considerably. Did wind the secondary coil in such a fashion, charge it and close the loop. Maybe used it in a different fashion to feed transformers or coils as Tesla likes them and a few valves (vacuum tubes) to rectify and control.
Some of this is happening much too fast for me to comprehend but it is logical.
Happy thinking,
Michel
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We were thrown off by the easy new plentiful supplies. In schools, they teach you to use the best and the latest.
They know that the secret is right in front of our eyes.
It has to be so obvious as to be dismissed offhand as undesirable in any finish product and commercial product.
It also have to be dismissible to the replicator's eyes.
Rust? That dirty and filthy stuff we spend fighting could show new tricks.
The design of my cell project is over, I can now proceed based on what I know as a fragile but also manageable base for the construction of my vision of a Stubblefield cell.
Happy replicating,
Michel
Anyone can use this in part or in whole to adapt to any other projects as I hope if it is useful to some that it becomes usefull to all in a non commercial way. Thanks. MT
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The result of this crazy race that I am on. Thanks for reading and commenting.
Special thanks to Jenna and Pirates and others their names evade me, never could recall a name.... You all kept me on track and focus on a good chain of talks. Thanks again.
My theory points to the Nathan Stubblefield cell as shown in the Letters of Patent that it is :
Super Conducting Lattices Based Induction Coil.
I'm exhausted and still can't sleep... crap >:(
Michel
P.S.: I will post results as they will come. I still don't know what and how to collect the potential. Electronics I never needed to learn. I may not have long to live if I based my feelings on the Blade Runners' replicant last words: " I have seen Worlds, I have seen wonderfull things" maybe not in that order and those words but the response was sublime.
You may not have burn long but you went through life at full intensity. Take care.
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Re:
I almost made it to bed but just got flashed again.
Be very carefull, use in open space as hydrogen may be a byproduct if the oxygen atoms migrate to the crystal structure from the water.
That would fit with my theory, so I repeat again:
The byproduct of my Stubblefield cell replication model is hydrogen. Be carefull.
Michel
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Hi all.
I just had an afterthought that I must share with you as it could be an easy way to test the concept of my Stubblefield cell model.
Stack alternating plates of soft iron and copper with cotton sheets in between. Compress the cell. Wet the cell and expose the stack to a magnetic field of some strength for at least a week (3,000 Gauss for a start). Keep the cell moist at all time during conditioning. Iron oxide crystals have to grow uninterrupted or they may dissolve or shatter from shock until it is full grown throughout the voids. The copper plates can be insulated or not.
This test should clear up if the copper wire needs to be insulated or not.
Test the effect of the battery with different signals and loads.
As mentioned, Hydrogen is a by product during the conditioning of the cell and maybe also during its use. Be very careful because if it is Ortho-Hydrogen, that think as a much more powerful kick. Protect yourself at all time and wear safety glasses.
Take care,
Michel
Thrust your feeling, Luke. Feel the FORCE flow into you.
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Last year I was researching batteries and studied the ancient design which were proven inadequate.
bonjour Michel
did you know Louis Boutard works ?
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Hi tagor,
No, but I'll check what he has published.
Thanks for the tip.
Take care,
Michel
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Desole...
Bonjour tagor
Je vais jeter un coup d'oeil. Merci encore.
Michel
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Desole...
Bonjour tagor
Je vais jeter un coup d'oeil. Merci encore.
Michel
d?sol? le fichier ne passe pas sur cette liste
si tu m'envoie ton email a drgt2@neuf.fr
je te l'envoie en perso
daniel
PS
tu le trouveras ici
http://quanthomme.free.fr/qhsuite/boutard.htm
http://quanthomme.free.fr/qhsuite/imagnews05/030105boutard.pdf
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Quote from: Michelinho on August 17, 2008, 03:31:53 AM
Je vais jeter un coup d'oeil. Merci encore.
Michel
OK back to english... ;) but first, I know what a tromp d'oeil is but what is a coup d'oeil?
So, Michael I still haven't figured out what you are talking about when you mention the conditioning coil. Is it the secondary??
please explain.
I also am fascinated by your thoughts and ideas. and I want to report something I never did before.
On 2 of my coils, rather quickly, the Fe wire became brittle and broke. I felt sure and still do that it was NOT metal fatigue caused by moving the wire back and forth to take measurements.
I think that something changed in the structure of the wire that made it brittle.
I think the iron becomming crystallized would be a way to cause brittleness.
I really like your ideas and I am looking forward to hear about what happens when you make one or ten... he he.
jeanna
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Hi Jenna,
"Coup d'oeil" is to have a look at.
If you go to the forum on TPU, I have layed out the theory adapted to the TPU and some clear thoughts on the inner workings and assembly. There are a bunch of Super brainy guys that I hope will help me make sense of my chain of thought.
That is nice about the brittleness of the iron. I still don't know why that would happen as it is not suppose to, according to the usual knowledge.
The conditioning of the coil and my present understanding:
The coil is exactly as Stubblefield shows it.
The control and conditioning coil is on the cell and feed with a source that will enveloppe the bifilar coil in a magnetic field or great itensity. I know believe the highest field the better. A rough guide would be to see how Tesla would have done it. With high voltage possibly to help the iron oxide particles migrate. Crystal latices grow in the small voids inside the rows as the effect of layers of identicaly charged wires will repulse and keep the crystal latices from groing out and shorting between rows.
Once the voids are filled the iron oxide latices grown under high magnetic field show supra paramagnetic properties or so I pretend in the Stubblefield cell. A research in MRI tech says the properties are known and in use today.
The project looks very good and I am flabbergaster at the sight of all I have written on it.
Take care Jenna,
Michel
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Hello all,
I don't think I've posted here before, but I have been following with interest. Here's an article from Dave L that I don't think has been posted here before (I did a search for it) and looks relevant. Please gleam what you can from it.
http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/EarthNodes.htm (http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/EarthNodes.htm)
tak
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Thanks Tak22.
I am familiar with Earth nodes or mini magnetic poles as some old guard thinkers refer to. Those are small magnetic vortices that forms at the cross section of the magnetic field lines. That too is part of the Electric Universe as on the Thunderbolt site. http://www.thunderbolt.com/ (http://www.thunderbolt.com/)
Leedskalnin used this concept in is work by levitating rocks inside those vortices created at the node he selected in Florida.
The game is afoot.
Take care,
Michel
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Hi all,
Back for a session of brainstorming with my son-in-law. He's brilliant.
We have found an easy way to make a Stubblefield cell and no it doesn't need the ground. It can also be used for a TPU.
All you need is a tape measure the length you want.
Copper tape or awg 12 wire flattened with a hammer and an anvil.
Make a nice coil with cotton between each so as cotton is the isolator and electrolyte transport.
The inside end is left open inside but insulated. 10Fe and 10Cu.
Felt washer than another stack for as many as you want.
Connect the outside wires in parallel. 5Fe and 5Cu
Wet and use. A TPU core is wound as an air core It even supplies energy.
A high efficiency Stubblefield cell or TPU core that you can stack for more energy.
Have fun,
Michel
I have copper tape from my old time with Tiffany lamps and a small 1/4"6 ft long promo measuring tape. Gift from a radiator shop.
A high efficiency Stubblefield cell that you can stack for more energy.
EDIT: You can also make individual coils of iron and copper in a thin mold with a strip of cotton and blue the coil with one line of crazy glue and stack iron/copper/iron/... Connect the outside open end in parallel copper with copper, iron with iron.
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These ideas are great! I can't wait to see your results from experiments. I have always said that we, as in modern society, have available much more than Stubblefield or Tesla had at that time. We should be able to do better than they did. This will be fun.
Bill
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Thanks Pirate,
I am already stripping the paint on the tape.
Steel strapping used to bind heavy load is another thing that can be used, ordered 20 ft last week from my sis. Strange.
Take care,
Michel
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Re: Overengineering.
The core is a bolt, insulated with cotton.
You leave your individual coil with 10fe and 10cu 180 degrees apart. You use flat copper wire and iron wire on each side of the core and slip the coils over. You can short the 10fe and 10cu from outside the cell for the electromagnet use. Weld if needed but protect the insulation.
Work safely. Don't breath flux vapors.
Take care,
Michel
EDIT: The control coil is used by Stubblefield to modulate his signal through the power of his cell, creating spikes on the signals that he connects to the antenna.
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Re:
And the beauty of it, it can be mass produced.
BATTERY - ELECTROMAGNET - WIRELESS PHONE - OTHER
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@michelinho:
I'm not sure if I'm the only one but some parts of your directions were not clear. Maybe some pictures of the steps will help once you get started on it.
What was your reason for going to flat wire?
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Hi storre,
Maximized contact surface area. It could also be made with thin plates of copper and iron with cloth in between squeezed in a plastic box. My son in law proposed the white fluffy spacer used in the psu units lead acid batteries, dialysis membranes or a few layers of Scott towels, the tough ones. Since the plates are compressed lightly, the magnetic field generated by the "battery" impacts the copper with full efficiency.
Higher efficiency and easier coils to wind will come from flat wires and contact surfaces are maximized and the space between discs to higher tolerances. But the layers will be harder to match (iron beside iron for ideal magnetic fields) if it is wound with the copper between the steel strap so I'll use that method is for the TPU. The coil on the patent is impossible to wind without exiting the coil at one end and reentering the other end. If you wind going left than right, you will never have the disc effect (magnetic magnifying effect) because the trace will crisscross instead of being one on top of each others (big lost of efficiency).
I should start soon, still on the painkillers for my back and leg. It is hazardous to work in this condition as I can hardly stand up and stay up. Pretty much confined to my orthopedic computer chair and my bed. I can control my brain but not my reflexes and balance.
Take care,
Michel
EDIT: The copper wire can be heated with a propane torch to make it more malleable. Easier to flatten and bend after. Don't burn yourself, do this outside.
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OK so when you start winding it will obviously be at a slant which is why you can't just wind back down if you are using flat wire. What about when you get to one end of the wind you just adjust the slant so that you only lose the overlap on the first turn. I think in one turn you can correct the slant so that you are going back the other way but still maximizing the overlap.
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Hi storre,
The problem is that to make the magnetic lensing effect of the coil, the first row is easy you get to the end and make a carving in the end washer for room and you reverse the wire to match the rows and you start crisscrossing (big reduction of efficiency), you have to reverse the winding to match exactly and that would kill the potential.
The illustrations I am referencing in my brain farts are in the patent. I only based my work on those for the internal structure of the coil. Since they were made with precision, they are a possible reference point.
Take care
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Oh yes of course. I was visualizing it wrong. So what about doing one wind and then getting the 2 wires back tot the bottom of the coil by going outside the coil or through a space in the center of the coil, where the bolt goes but of course isolated from the bolt electrically. I guess you would have to pass through 10-20 times so it might be unfeasible but worth a try.
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Re storre,
You loose the iron core mass. TPU
What I have reconstruct so far is the original Stubblefield cell: a high power (compare to other water batteries of the time) self-generating induction coil. Since it generates a strong magnetic field while giving energy, this coil structure is IDEAL for a stand alone self powered TPU. Just collect energy from the core output and from coil(s)(bifilar for higher potential)* encasing the core for free. Nothing else needed for a steady flow of FREE ENERGY. How much? The disc sequencing effect and numbers can also jumps the 1.2v limit of an electrolytic battery cell if the crystalline structure is sound and active.
What I suspect that he found at a later date is that one of is long forgotten still running earth cell had burnt a unusual high load. He dismantled the cell but had to break it apart as it was now a crystal structure with a rusty color. He rewound a new cell, placed the tip in water and started experimenting on cell conditioning. That seems simple but he was at it for 15 years. The crystalline structure can have supra conducting or supra paramagnetic properties. That is where my mental exercise has taken me to. That can only be done after the test of the first replication. That can be very wrong also, I am doing a balancing act tenuous ground based of A feeling.
Ferrous oxide and copper oxide have exotic properties and could play a role in "room temperature supra conduction, supra paramagnetic effect (???) or rectifying effect or diode effect in the Stubblefield cell or a TPU.
Take care,
Michel
* as I suggested in the TPU section of the forum for an ideal tpu with 4 coils. Since it is generating the magnetic field from within, the control coil becomes simply another collecting coil or it could be just one bifilar coil surrounding the unit.
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@ Michelinho:
When you say electrolytic limit of 1.2 volts, what do you mean by this? Are you speaking of the limit of pure galvanic action?
I ask this because in our early days of electrodes in the ground, I was able to get almost 3 vdc using a carbon rod and magnesium block.
These higher numbers were only possibly when aligned on the north/south meridian with the carbon rod to the north. If I get what you are saying, than this proves, to me anyway, that energy was coming from somewhere else besides galvanic. The electrodes were about 5 feet apart. I had also done an early experiment with 2 coper pipes aligned on the north/south meridian at about the same spacing and I also was reading vdc. (I forget the amount at this time) Since there were no dissimilar metals it could not be galvanic action generating the electricity.
This is what demonstrated to me that placement in the earth plays a part here, at least it did with the electrodes and may as well with the coils. I know our coils worked for us sitting on the table but, all of my readings were much higher when buried, and even higher when buried for over a week. To date, I have not been successful in hooking them up in series. Instead of additive higher readings, they were lower with 2 coils in series. I am not saying that it is not possible, I am just saying I have not be able to get it to work as of yet.
I hope your recovery goes good for you.
Bill
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Hi Pirate,
The 1.2v cell limit is pretty much everywhere. I am sure that is only one basic aspect of the design and many other factors become a possibility. If the output is 1.2v, the current can be as high as 5 or 10 amps with adequate wiring size. That is what I expect but with a potential much higher with the various oxides and special the coil construction magnifying the effect and bifilar collector coil(s). His portable antenna looks familiar and rings high voltage.
I expect to see ~7v ~2 amp as a primer but am ready for less (That would still be a great achievement). I did a quick check with the measuring tape and copper tape on top, coupled as a cap like the Stubblefield Cell (8 ft long 1/4" wide not rolled up) and got .357v no moisture lying on my desk. The tape glue acts as a dielectric. I tried to remove it with lighter fluid but no go.
The final model or the updated one I'm dreaming now during my happy times (loaded on painkillers), I would guess at least 10 fold more for a 6" to 8" coil in a TPU with the Stubblefield design core. Maybe more if what I am uncovering with the great helps from everywhere specially from the theoretical physicists help.
From Sparks:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4454.msg122471.html#msg122471
@Michelin
This is very interesting information. The crystals "grown" on the conducting mass field under controlled energy parameters. Permanent magnets are an attempt at this but only influence the metal mass field on it's response to a dc current flow as the heat is extracted from the metal. The dielectric film grown on the conductor now turns it into a matched dielectric information mass information form of matter. The dielectric information and energy density information able to be conveyed in unity in it's field of influence. Permanent scalar wave transmitter. This is very much the construct of a plazma. I picture a plazma as a form of matter that is a permanent capacitor. On a neuclear model this would be a configuration of the electron energy shells which are stressed to one side of the neucleus. The protonic influence now stronger on one side of the atom. The entire atomic structure then rolls to equalize the molecular electrostatic charges. This leaves the protonic neuclei on the inside of an electron cloud bank. The capacitor now an inside outside configuration. This stable mass field can now easily transmit protonic or electronic information at superluminous speeds longitudinally through it's stratifield mass fields.
The deeper I go, the deeper the mystery lies but I am closing in.... Significant when you consider those who succeeded without all the tech we have. They are the Ones.
Take care,
Michel
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Hi all,
I have found something in my junk that will make it easy to replicate along a 3/4" steel strap.
Take care,
Michel
EDIT: Pirates did you try 5cu to 10cu and 6fe to 10fe? You load the coils in series that way. It's series but with an amplifying effect. Acts as a bifilar coil connected to a bifilar coil in series.
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Yes, I attempted that as well as every other possible connections I could think of.
It is interesting to note that all of my decent power readings came from either cu wire (it made no difference) and the core itself. These
readings were always at least 2 times, or more, those of fe wire to cu. So, I also tried series connections using the core and cores as well.
Bill
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Hi everyone,
Michel said something in an earlier post that gave me an idea. I think I misunderstood him but it may be a new way to connect a pair of NS generators.
[I think NS ALWAYS used these in pairs and about 30 feet apart too.]
The idea would be to twist the 5Cu with the 6Fe and then use that "center" tap point as a single wire in much the same way that the joule thief is wired.
Now, with 2 of these connected. ...
I actually think I tried this once when I had multiple coils under the tree, (but nothing showed up on the dmm.) The joule thief has a transistor that switches the the current on and off.
Maybe there is a way to make the current switch on and off by having 2 coils wired somehow. (enter the idea that this could be wired to work like a transistor.)
I am SURE a DMM won't show anything, but, in spite of that, maybe there is something there.
---------
I am looking forward to Michel's report.
@Michel, I assume that the primary bifilar coil is what you are calling the conditioner?
Also, there are so many TPU threads, could you please post the address of the TPU thread you are referring to? I know it slows down a post, but it REALLY helps the readers. I always found that when I put everything right into the same post, I got more response from others, which meant to me that they read all of it because it was right there. .. Just a request and suggestion bundled together. ;)
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I think it was in the beginning of this bifilar thread that I noticed the disc-like order of the windings. We talked about that for a while. I think Storre got the benefit of it because he had not yet wound his coil.
A little later I noticed that in the upper left hand side of the picture in the patent, the copper and the iron were NOT lined up. I know NS relied heavily on the excellent drawings he made, but I wonder why this section of the drawing is different from the rest.
This is still an unresolved question for me.
(The other unresolved question is why the drawing indicates a caduceus type winding but it also shows 5 rows with both pairs of wires at the top. This is impossible. The number of rows must be an even number for the wires to end at the top.)
Also Michel, My experience is that the volts n amps go DOWN after the coil has been wetted and has become a little rusty. I will check my iron core one that is still outside.
I think very few coils that were made from folks on this thread were made with soft iron. Mostly they were iron covered with zinc. I gave up asking about that detail after a while. I think I only have one that is made with NO zinc anywhere. It performed "poorly" at first, and has continued to perform about the same - ie. it never lost any power. So, I don't know what that is about, and I suspect this has something to do with your iron oxide idea. I hope your back gets perfectly pain free and strong right now!
jeanna
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Hi Jenna,
I tried to keep the confusion out but I'm sorry if I swayed you.
Primary coil is iron copper coil.
Control coil, conditioner coil or the exciter coil are names for the outside coil that is over the primary coil.
The conditioner coil is used in the wireless for modulating the magnetic field created in the battery. Modulated pseudo ac or modulated dc or what ever kind of signal that would show up on the scope.
I never heard of the joule thief or not under that name, thanks for the info, I'll check what that does.
He could have used a clicker or buzzer coil do create a more powerfull potential. BEMF in action like in the Newman motor.
Take care,
Michel
P.S.: My wife sewed the cotton jacket for the strap. so only missing my steel strap to start assembly. I'll heat the steel strap until red, that will promote very fast oxidization.
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Hi all,
A little reminder here about the importance of the bifilar coil.
A little experiment from the lab:
Starting with a magnetic motor made with a rotor with pm and the stator was cleaned from the original coils.
2 coils were wound 180 degree apart..
1- First coil is 80 turns.
2- Second coil is a bifilar 40 turns.
The frequency 18 Hz so 1080 rpm.
The results of the tests shows same potential but:
1- First coil is 80 turns: 0.040 amp
2- Second coil is a bifilar 40 turns: 0.080 amp
Always use bifilar coil where feasable.
Take care all
Michel & Al
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@ Jenna
On 2 of my coils, rather quickly, the Fe wire became brittle and broke. I felt sure and still do that it was NOT metal fatigue caused by moving the wire back and forth to take measurements.
The possible Fe crystalline structure in a NS cell. I am sure NS saw that too at one time or another. Maybe the cell is draining the iron of a component? Carbon? Impurities?
I heard an explanation for it but don't recall what that was... >:(
I know that a log holder made of cast iron (forge too) will become very brittle when exposed to prolong high heat surrounding it.
I am still on it.
Take care,
Michel
Anyone knows?
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Re: Bifilar coils.
I just got an email from a not sleepy son-in-law.
He went back to the lab and placed those two coils in series (phase) and measured: 0.120 amp ??????????????
Have fun.
Michel
Edit: A battery circuit in series would not add the currents, the coils do.
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Bill @all have a look at this coil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdup42Epq0o[posted by sirmikey1] if you have already seen this' apologies'
Chet
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Hi all,
I tried a NS cell in tiny tpu format, much simpler to wound.
Coil:
8 feet steel strap 1/4" wide (measuring tape blade stripped and heated red for faster rusting).
8 feet copper tape 1/4 wide with glue on 1 side. (50% efficiency until glue is denatured)
8 feet cotton insulator sleeve on steel strap.
Duct Tape for sealing. (Red Green Stuff) ;D
I.D. 1 3/4"
O.D. 2 1/2"
Height: 3/4" with coton and duct tape.
Did not check the amp.
Initial potential: 0.313 Vdc
24 hrs later: 0.588 Vdc
Recovery from short takes about 1 min to 0.588Vdc.
Looks promising for the larger unit which will have a mass about 100 times larger. That's next week.
Take care,
Michel
EDIT: Just for fun I hooked a 9V battery on the cell and guess what? 1.5 volt so far, pure galvanic action. It slowly went down when the battery was disconnected and stabilizing at around 0.615V.
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Re:
Still playing with the coil, a lot of fun and strange things.
I got it to go up to 1.8Vdc now and steady at 0.610Vdc after discharging it for a few minutes. At one time I was shocking it with pulse with a 9V battery and my multimeter went crazy. the coil after the pulsing was going from 1.2Vdc to .7Vdc to 1.1Vdc to .9Vdc for a few minutes, checked AC, it was crazy there too, going from .02Vac to .105Vac to .2Vac etc... It was oscillating. Shorted it and it stopped, can't get it back to do it.
Well off for the shock treatment....
Take care all,
Michel
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Hi all,
The thickness of the insulator might have a role to play in longevity because the small coil after a long draining session with a 1/8 watt resistor has left its potential to 0.045Vdc. Seems to be stuck there for now. I used a thin layer of cotton, thicker may be better. Worked well for 2 days. I'll see what comes up with it in the next week or so.
Take care,
Michel
EDIT: I just squeezed the coil and it must have move something inside as it is now going up to a steady 0.430Vdc.
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Re:
Took the coil apart and the rust is showing through in many places but still not much. The first time, I wound the coil tight and rewound it with much less pressure. Resealed it and it is now at a nicer 0.608Vdc.
Restarting the tests and shocks.
Take care,
Michel
I am having another sleeve made for big brother, it will have 4 layers of cotton as insulator and wont wind it as tight.
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I am here to post a new avatar.
Since I am here, I thought I'd mention what is going on outside.
I put a non electrolytic capacitor across the 2 10's wires. (the kind that looks like a soft plastic blob on 2 wires.)
The voltage shot up from 30millivolts to 263 millivolts. And the amps read 545microamps too. This doesn't sound like much cuz it isn't ;) BUT this cell has been dry all summer. I added water to the soil. That is when it showed 30 millivolts.
That was yesterday. Today in the early morning the volts were 200millivolts. The amps were 145microamps. I think this is the solar thing. early morning is less high noon should be more. I'll check.
jeanna
here is an ou-related pic for use as my avatar.
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G'day all,
Way ta go jeanna ;D ;D
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@ Jeanna:
Nice avatar.
Bill
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@ Jeanna,
Nice avatar, maybe I should make one too. :)
My alternator is almost done and next will be to match the Newman to it then I'll work on the NS cell full time. I wound one last week that I am testing and so far with a 1/8 watt resistor across the terminals that gives a constant 0.460vdc @ 0.30ma (two days ago it was only giving 0.360vdc @ 0.20ma). So the resistor conditioning is helping.
Take care,
Michel
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Thanks guys, ;),
As the coil gets dryer the numbers go down. Today I saw some oscillations in the numbers both volts n amps. My guess is that the coil is using the battery from the meter along with the cap for this but I couldn't say how.
I have a plan for later this season. I am too scattered with life events for now, but when the rain settles in so will the energies.
Here is my plan, so if anyone thinks it is worth a try go for it.
-Make 2 similar coils with heavy enough gauge for some kind of amperage to show.
-Twist the 10's together. on one of them
-Put a cap across the 10's of the other.
-The one with the cap will be the pulsed power source for the other. It's copper wire will be the
(+) of the battery and the iron the (-) side.
-The one with twisted 10's is rigged up like a joule thief. with a resistor and a transistor as switch. and a light. (the twisted ends attach to the - side of the other and the 5 and 6 make the loop circuit that has the resistor and transistor and light.)
Then start to take away the transistor, resistor and see if just the oscillator of the one with the cap will make the light happen.
I might even start by putting the joule thief I have on this to see that.
It was the last idea I had before I stopped last spring. I still want to follow this thought.
jeanna
Oh yeah, thanks Michelinho - I forgot the resistor part. I'll need to do that soon too. ;)
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I tried 2 other caps to do this last year and Ian set me straight with this little blob. ;)
I have always felt that the NS coil generator had an oscillating current. I didn't know how to show it. I tried a small spark gap, but I couldn't tell. The other day, Ian explained to me that this blob type (he used the proper term, of course) is the kind that will allow the oscillations to occur unimpeded. They wonk back and forth in this particular kind of capacitor.
So
Thank you, Ian
jeanna
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2 days ago, I bought a bigger cap.
(BTW- the one I tried first is .01uf capacitor polyester film from RS
the results were as I said .)
I put in a .1uf cap (ten times larger capacity) same type 2 days ago. The volts n amps were the same for a while.
Next day they were 330millivolts and 1.45 milliamps (yes, milliamps).
Yesterday (so one day later just sitting there with the cap in place) I added a 300R resistor to the other ends the 5 and 6 wire ends.
The volts n amps changed to
70millivolts and .5uAmps.
I wish there were a way to attach these ultra thin wires together better than these clips. It is pretty shaky for a connection. I would be changing them more frequently just to see the differences.
It is foggy now, I will take the measurement around noon. Hopefully the fog will lift so the reading has some equivalent sun effect to the last few days. I want to see what effect this resistor has over time.
The odd thing is ohms law. E=IR so, R = E/I so 300 ohms = .07volts / .0005Amps But that is not a true statement. I think the meter is really throwing the results off. .07 / .0005 = 140ohms not 300ohms.
I wonder if this is showing ac?? and the meter can only read half of it? I will look at the ac volts right off the meter. Trouble is the meter guesses the ac volts are double the dc volts, so it wouldn't be proof.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
The only thing I can think of at the moment might be to find a "load" in the range that you suspect your output might really be. Things like a small digital calculator or digital clock display or, I don't know....something rated to run at these volts/amps level. I think Joe suggested something similar to this a log while back. If you look around, there may be something you can use.
I don't know if this is any help or not but it might work.
Bill
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Better than look around, I should STOP AND ACTUALLY READ the resistor. ;D ;D
I thought all those turquoise resistors in that pouch were the same. I just grabbed one without stopping to read it. Worse yet, I reported this without checking.
It is 100 not 300 ohms.
So, today, I went back outside and the volts were down to 27millivolts and amps 23uA with the resistor on.
I took it off and instantly the volts popped up to 107millivolts and were rising when I walked away.
I'm sorry if this causes any confusion.
I will look again on monday when I get back to it.
jeanna
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Hi all,
I stuck a 3 feet long 5/16" threaded rod for the cell core stuck 2 feet in the ground near a tree in my backyard (it was just sitting on the ground before). Still with a 1kohm 1/8 watt resistor attached to 5 and 6 I now get 0.531vdc and 0.32ma. When I check between the core rod and 5Cu my digital unit shows 1.007vdc that drops to 0 when I try for current reading. The digital unit doesn't show any AC while a cheapo analog shows about the same as the DC potential.
I bought an old Simpson 270 series 4 analog multimeter off EBay and should be getting it early next week, I'll check for an AC signal then.
It's getting cold and wet so I may have to bring it back inside in a month or so.
Take care,
Michel
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hello, ive been following in joes stubblefield forum and just finished reading all of it, plan on reading this one next, found something i thought you all might find intresting to know at popular mechanics, follow this link if you get a chance http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-01/electricity-air hope to be experimenting soon.
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every1 taking a break or has every1 moved somewhere else?
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every1 taking a break or has every1 moved somewhere else?
Hi lbnc,
Welcome to this thread.
I was just trying to get the patent pdf for you, but the pat2pdf server must be down. It was my favorite pat place, so I don't have another. I have an acrobat pdf of this patent, but I cannot manipulate it, (which is why I wanted to get you a link.)
Hopefully tomorrow it will be back and I can get it for you It is good to read and reread it. I used to read it every day. I got tons of insight all the time. I just haven't had much luck.
However, I still get better results than I do on the crystal battery for instance, so I have not given up.
I think taking a break is all it is.
A couple of weeks ago I found out I was using the wrong kind of capacitor, so I changed that and this should keep the coil oscillating as I think is the idea. Then I put a resistor across the output ends (5, and 6) which slowed it down, but it bounced back.
Trouble was that I left the meter on waiting for it to get to the full power and kept packing my car to go to a workshop and forgot it. So I returned a week later to a very wet dmm and probably one that needs a battery replacement.
That is the sorry state of affairs here.
More later. he he.
Again, welcome, and have fun!
jeanna
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Yes, we are still here. Hey Jeanna, sorry about your meter.
I am still planing to acquire some more wire and wind a larger coil. I want to do one with some real mass to compare to my smaller ones. I still have not given up on the multiple electrode approach either. Somewhere, way back, I found a site that offered a magnesium block designed for protecting in-ground tanks that they said would put out 1 amp. I always wanted to bury this thing and connect it to my carbon rods in the N/S alignment to see what could be obtained. Hopefully, I will have some money soon to do this.
I hope everyone is well and still thinking of great things.
Bill
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OK the p2p server is back
Here is the link to everyone's favorite patent ;D :
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=600457 (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=600457)
@Bill,
Its ok. How much abuse can the poor little thing take?
I thought I killed it in June, now this. I may just buy a back up meter even tho it seems OK again. ;)
jeanna
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if you notice in the patent, we are all assuming the secondary coil can be covered by modern plastic because stubblefield says to cover it with "mica, celluloid,or equivelent material", which mica and celluloid are early insulators. My problem is that early celluloid was flammable and decomposed easily, while mica can be an insulator but is also used as a material for capacitors. we dont know what kinds of mica stubblefield had available or used. Another intresting thing is judging from the way he wrote about the seconday coil i got the impression it was bare until the last winding was done then he "encased" it in these materials. Hope my ramblings make sense.
LB
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PS. Thanks for the link to the patent Jeana, and glad to see yall are still around
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Another interesting thing is judging from the way he wrote about the secondary coil i got the impression it was bare until the last winding was done then he "encased" it in these materials. Hope my ramblings make sense.
LB
Hmmm
Nobody, so far as I know, has had any luck getting a secondary to work. Joe mentioned something in the beginning, but I don't think he ever provided any numbers or replications.
I had some unexplained behavior with a scramble-wound secondary applied directly over the primary, but I have not been able to replicate it. It was made with green 26? gauge wire from RS. around 220 turns over around 120 turns of the copper part of the primary (which is doubled when you account for the iron primary in there. I was never sure how to count it. But it never seemed to matter. It was the only secondary that even REGISTERED anything.
Back to your ramblings, perhaps your suggestion will lead to a solution. It is just odd if it is unvarnished or otherwise uncovered copper, I should think it would act as a single pipe. It does require/inspire another look.
How does one make a cylinder shape from mica? I wonder.
But, they did have varnished wires back then. Linseed oil grows sticky over time, polymerizes, and eventually makes a dry varnish. I wonder if it has some properties that are essential to the success of this secondary?
mmmmm ;)
Thanks LB,
jeanna
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went to lowes last night and got some wire,they didnt have anything smaller than a 6 gauge in bare copper so my girlfriend and i got some 12 guage wire we will have to strip,also got some 9 guage galvanized wire, hope it works the same, we havent figured out where to buy regular iron wire yet.Also got a piece of iron rebar and an iron stake from the masonry section for cheap. Cant seem to find a welding supply sore around here so i think as far as pole experiments we are going to try to order an graphite rod, I read on a site that even though carbon and graphite have the same potential, graphite has a lower resistance. If anyone knows where to get a soft iron core at or if galvanized iron wold work let me know. When i get a coil built ill take pictures and readings to yall.
Thanks,
LB
@ Jeanna,
Thanks for the warm intro, another thing i noticed that i havent heard any talk about was the wooden spool held together by cotton in between the primary and secondary coils, do you know if anyone has done this?
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went to lowes last night and got some wire,they didnt have anything smaller than a 6 gauge in bare copper so my girlfriend and i got some 12 guage wire we will have to strip,also got some 9 guage galvanized wire, hope it works the same, we havent figured out where to buy regular iron wire yet.Also got a piece of iron rebar and an iron stake from the masonry section for cheap. Cant seem to find a welding supply sore around here so i think as far as pole experiments we are going to try to order an graphite rod, I read on a site that even though carbon and graphite have the same potential, graphite has a lower resistance. If anyone knows where to get a soft iron core at or if galvanized iron wold work let me know. When i get a coil built ill take pictures and readings to yall.
Thanks,
LB
@ Jeanna,
Thanks for the warm intro, another thing i noticed that i havent heard any talk about was the wooden spool held together by cotton in between the primary and secondary coils, do you know if anyone has done this?
lbnc
As far as I know no one has tried the wooden spool between the primary and secondary .
I have some theorys on it .
I don't want to try to explain .... all I have is theorys I have found that most of the time when I bring up theorys that I can't prove most of what happens is the thread gits filled with posts from skeptics .
My idea required starting with the magnetic field of the primary driving a contact like in a relay ..
In my opinion no one here has yet built a big enough coil to be able to make the switch .
If my theorys are right the wood spool is necessary . If I am right it would be a radiant energy device . ......
gary
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The skeptics win if they stop you from voicing your thoughts. We that matter, are not concerned with skeptics so please enlighten us with your thoughts :)
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...
... guage galvanized wire, hope it works the same
Except that galvanized wire has a much bigger galvanic potential with copper than plain iron wire. Most folks did not make much distinction assuming this higher potential difference would be better than what the patent calls for.
I am still not sure. Since we haven't gotten it to go past simple galvanic reaction yet. who knows? (most of mine use galvanized wire)
we havent figured out where to buy regular iron wire yet
In the section with the rebar, you can get a spool of browm wire made to tie the rebar. It is probably the fence wire we need. It hurts the hands, but all of it does that. ;D ;D
welding supply
I think it is called MacMaster welding online. Bill is the guy who bought the nice graphite post. He will know.
was the wooden spool held together by cotton in between the primary and secondary coils, do you know if anyone has done this?
I think the patent says to do that. cover the inside bolt and then cover the primary with cloth before adding the secondary.
You can see that humungo pair of batteries in the front lawn of the family picture. It looks white which means it is all covered with cloth in the end too, But he says mica at that place in the patent. ??? ???
I am sure he changed everything lots of times after the patents were written.
@Gary,
Do you think the reason I never got any reading from my longest secondary is because I wrapped it on a plastic tube and not wooded? It fit very close to the primary. I was always amazed to get nothing at all; I remember I stopped even taking measurements, it seemed so odd. The guy on youtube from the Murray university also said he got nothing from his secondary.
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about capacitors:
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The relays will wear out very soon at 50mHz or whatever these things resonate at.
I really think the capacitor at the top is a switch. (not like the cap Bill used, though) I mean at the ends NS calls the 10's.
Look at my avatar, I am talikng about a capacitor between the 2 that are sticking up.
My only NS coil in the ground is still going. I can measure the voltage across the cap itself. It only changes as the cell dries out.
I will buy a new meter so I can make a couple of useful reports.
The point is, I had this plan last year, but used the wrong kind of capacitor.
I am now using the polyester film non electrolytic type. Radio shak# 272-1059 maybe. it is that number just above the bar code. I used both .1uF and .01uF with the same results.
The theory is the joules go to the top of the wire and cross into the cap then go back down and back up the other wire and into the cap then back again. It makes it oscillate. So, that makes it AC. And it does it all by itself as long as it is wet. I tried a spark gap last year, but it was too tiny to control. I have always thought the silver globes that are on the tops of his units in the photos were functioning as capacitors. He makes it clear not to touch them, but leaves it a mystery why not. And he also says it does it all just by being wet...
The problem we have is that the starting force of this invention is the galvanic reaction between the 2 wires. But if it is done right, and I think this capacitor thing is what he did, this flips into electrolysis and re-plates the wires cycle by cycle. This way it never uses up the wire. I have been working on this part, because there seems no point in trying to get a higher galvanic reaction. There are easier and better ways to do that. But, when the primary starts functioning the secondary should give some power. That is next. ;)
BTW, in AC, nothing is going anywhere as it is in DC.. It just rocks back and forth.
jeanna
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The skeptics win if they stop you from voicing your thoughts. We that matter, are not concerned with skeptics so please enlighten us with your thoughts :)
Storre
I have shared quite a few ideas and theorys here in the past.
That does not mean I will share all my ideas and theorys here.
Once an idea is shot down by the skeptics for whatever reason they keep siting their victory as proof that such a thing is impossible . One example of this is a "rule " that I have read here quite a few times . All permanent magnet motors end up demagnetizing the magnets. On this site this is taken as gospel ..........it is pure BS but it is skeptical BS so it is not challenged . Maybe some magnets get demagnetized but only if they are being worked to hard .
My ideas on how the stubblfield coil might work cover quite few theorys.
It would take hours of my time to write up .
I am just not willing to invest that kind of time when I can't prove any of it.
I will build and test parts of it as I am able.
Until I am ready I will share no more.
gary
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@Gary,
Do you think the reason I never got any reading from my longest secondary is because I wrapped it on a plastic tube and not wooded? It fit very close to the primary. I was always amazed to get nothing at all; I remember I stopped even taking measurements, it seemed so odd. The guy on youtube from the Murray university also said he got nothing from his secondary.
Jeanna
I think the wood probably had several functions . Plastic could be used if the other things the wood was also doing was accounted for.
I would think that you probably didn't get anything from your secondary because you didn't have enough AC in the primary .
Your ideas about using a capacitor to make it resonate is interesting .........but I don't remember anything self powering and self resonating.
Now ..... if a double coil was built with a small coil with the solonoid switch and a large coil that resonated at the same frequency they would tend to reinforce themselves.
The switch would last much longer if it was running on low power .
Both coils would provide the magnetic flux to move the switch contacts .
gary
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I would think that you probably didn't get anything from your secondary because you didn't have enough AC in the primary .
Probably you are right.
And, as I now recall, that plastic secondary kept the primary from getting moist. I had to disturb the coil's place in the ground to get water under the tube of the secondary. Hmm, I wonder how close I may have been.
I did have one whose secondary worked. It was about the same number of turns as the total turns if you count both metals, which at the time I didn't think you did. So, it acted as a filter/transformer.
I wound it right on top of the primary winds without a separator layer - or maybe there is a piece of paper tape or silk, but there was no short because it was green varnished mag wire. (still is)
Your ideas about using a capacitor to make it resonate is interesting .........but I don't remember anything self powering and self resonating.
I always read that this self resonated. I got that from the way NS made his remarks. I have to dig up the patent right now, so I won't attempt to quote him. It is that I always thought this is what he meant. much to Joe's chagrin. ;)
I once described it to Hans, early on, and he indicated that he thought so too. Hans is the one who told me the metal globe could be a capacitor.
My problem being a newby to electronics, was I didn't know what to set up and where. I have Ian to thank for that. I described this to him one day and he pointed out my mistake in capacitors. So, in a way, he also thought it worked that way too. well, at least I took it to mean that.
I will have a new meter next week and I should be able to test all my coils with this new cap-as-switch.
thank you.
jeanna
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Probably you are right.
And, as I now recall, that plastic secondary kept the primary from getting moist. I had to disturb the coil's place in the ground to get water under the tube of the secondary. Hmm, I wonder how close I may have been.
I did have one whose secondary worked. It was about the same number of turns as the total turns if you count both metals, which at the time I didn't think you did. So, it acted as a filter/transformer.
I wound it right on top of the primary winds without a separator layer - or maybe there is a piece of paper tape or silk, but there was no short because it was green varnished mag wire. (still is)
I always read that this self resonated. I got that from the way NS made his remarks. I have to dig up the patent right now, so I won't attempt to quote him. It is that I always thought this is what he meant. much to Joe's chagrin. ;)
I once described it to Hans, early on, and he indicated that he thought so too. Hans is the one who told me the metal globe could be a capacitor.
My problem being a newby to electronics, was I didn't know what to set up and where. I have Ian to thank for that. I described this to him one day and he pointed out my mistake in capacitors. So, in a way, he also thought it worked that way too. well, at least I took it to mean that.
I will have a new meter next week and I should be able to test all my coils with this new cap-as-switch.
thank you.
jeanna
Jeanna
I hope that you get a coil resonatiing . it would fill in alot of blanks about what stubblefield was doing
gary
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Hi all,
The Stubblefield cell outdoor has dropped to 0.085v due to excessive rain and cold weather. I moved it to a dryer place with a monitor coax running all the way indoor, much more fun to take measures. I'll try to take pictures soon for that one.
Meanwhile I have wound another one with the control coil (pictured below) and will set it up in the basement in the sump pump hole (always dry) on a ground pipe that I will drive a couple of feet down. That should get me about 8 feet under the ground level outdoors. As the pictures show, I finally got my analog Simpson meter. ;D
I am winding another one based on the TPU core style. The core is made of steel straps and weight 5 lbs and I will alternate copper and black iron wires in successive rows. (pictured below) I will use that one for tests indoor. Then it will be time to get back to the alternator and Newman motor as I have received the rectifier bridges and copper pipes for the slip rings on the motor.
Take care all,
Michel
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@ All:
We don't have AC in the primary, it is DC. Also, I am still not convinced that the output of the secondary is AC it might just be pulsed DC at a given freq. Either way, I do think we have reached beyond galvanic here. I used iron wire, not coated. I think it was for fencing. Again, I used my magnet to tell me if the iron content was high. The rebar I tested did not have much iron at all. I did used a galvanized iron spike as it had way more iron than anything in the store. Jeanna has always wondered if the zinc coating played a part in my experiments, either to the good, or the bad. I don't have an answer to that. I do know that my large cell put out volts and mA's when totally dry so I think I can rule out galvanic to some degree. Jeanna also did some work with a compass that showed some strange behavior near our coils. I think we need to look at this a little more.
Gary is correct in that we have not had a cell large enough to operate a "switch" to generate either ac or pulsed dc in the secondary. I hope to build that cell some day. The same with Jeanna's spark gap tests. Not enough juice in my opinion.
As far as the wood goes, my thoughts are these. Wood, when dry, is an insulator of an unknown dielectric number. (unknown to me at least) If this is the case, it seems to me that any insulator would work as well. This, of course, is just a guess on my part. I know of no properties of dried wood that would make any difference to what we are trying to do. This does not mean that there is not one I do not know about.
I used cotton string in between my cu and fe wires on each layer, which I found easier to do than winding cloth around each wire as I went. This seemed to work well but, it was not as it was done in the patent. I was pleased with my results but, as Jeanna has pointed out, possibly our results might have been better sticking to the patent. But, Jeanna has also raised the point that N.S. had God knows how many changes since he filed the original patent.
Where does this leave us? Experiment, experiment, experiment. No way around it I am afraid. Everything I look at these days in the way of energy production seems to always include the bifilar coil arrangement. From Tesla on down, this seems very important. There is something here.
I will post more when I can get back to my "energy garden."
Bill
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As far as the wood goes, my thoughts are these. Wood, when dry, is an insulator of an unknown dielectric number. (unknown to me at least) If this is the case, it seems to me that any insulator would work as well. This, of course, is just a guess on my part. I know of no properties of dried wood that would make any difference to what we are trying to do. This does not mean that there is not one I do not know about.
I
Bill
The properties of the dry componets are important for replication purposes .
In my opinion the dry properties go out the window as soon as the coil goes into the ground .
gary
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Hi resonanceman,
Nice to see another replicator on board to get the Nathan Stubblefield cell functioning.
Hi all,
The NS cell that I moved to a dryer place is picking up strength, it is now at 0.12vdc at 0.20ma and the same primary coil is also showing 0.050vac on the analog meter, the digital meter show no ac. I suspect the sampling rate of the digital multimeter the culprit. Since the sun came out today, I was able to take a few pictures of that cell.
It is composed of 90 ft of copper wire wrapped in cotton coil with a 90 feet 4 strands awg 16 black iron wire twisted. That's the one with the coax running indoors for measures.
Take care,
Michel
EDIT: The coil shows a North pole at the top of core and a South pole at the bottom.
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Great Michael!,
I have one coil which is made from a pipe (soft iron and hollow), where the south of the compass needle points to its top. The rest made with various iron or galvanized iron stakes (all solid) show the north point of the compass pointing to the top.
Is yours hollow?
I think you promised me an oscilloscope reading of your coil when you were finished with it? I would love to hear what it says.
My coils that use those same metals (dark brown iron and copper) also show about the same voltage range. The lowest amps was 0.018mA ( 18uA) last spring with a functioning meter. I don't want to report now with the cap yet because the meter is not right. The highest reading was in April at 0.292vdc and 0.149mA (not much but more than now.)
Also now, I am using a 300 ohm resistor from time to time to try to see what that does. and it pulls it down for a while.
BUT before you turn away from this project, please clip a non electrolytic cap between the iron and copper terminals at the top (10Cu, 10 Fe) and take readings all around especially with the oscilloscope!
BTW, mine always get better with moisture. They get weaker till they die when they dry out.
thank you mucho,
jeanna
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Hi Jeanna,
The outdoor cell has a pvc 1 1/2" core with a 5/16" threaded rod 3 feet long in the center that holds the two ends together because my coil wires loop inside the pvc pipe to make the coil like the patent (4 twisted awg 16 black iron wire is rigid so I needed much room). The higher voltage on the core is weak.
All my cells have the North pole on top.
I'll try to get my son-in-law to bring his scope for a screenshot. The cell I gave him must be rusting in a corner of his lab cause he did not test it, too busy I guess.
Also now, I am using a 300 ohm resistor from time to time to try to see what that does. and it pulls it down for a while.
I use a 1 kohm 1/8 watt resistor as constant load on my cells, they seem to gain in power over time, not much but some.
BUT before you turn away from this project, please clip a non electrolytic cap between the iron and copper terminals at the top (10Cu, 10 Fe) and take readings all around especially with the oscilloscope!
I'll work on the other projects but will keep checking on the cells. I placed a cap on the tpu style cell and I get about 5% increase in voltage so far. I'll try to get the scope shot as soon as possible.
BTW, mine always get better with moisture. They get weaker till they die when they dry out.
Mines too but that cell was in water not just moist. ;D
A shot of the tpu style cell almost done, just missing the control coil where the wires come out. So far the 1st coil (nearer to the core) produce 0.60vdc 0.60ma with the cap on and the resistor as load. The second row of the coil puts out 0.05vdc and the third coil show nearly nothing as output (might get something once the control coil is wound and activated with electrical pulses.
That's about it for today,
Take care all,
Michel
P.S.: The TPU Style cell has 132 turns on each row, 396 turns copper/iron wire in bifilar total in 3 rows, using about 150 feet of awg 12 copper wire and awg 16 black iron wire. I tried to find larger black iron wire but so far it's the only size available at the local hardware stores.
EDIT: The TPU Style cell shows 0.22vac on the analog meter.
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Michel:
"A shot of the tpu style cell almost done, just missing the control coil where the wires come out. So far the 1st coil (nearer to the core) produce 0.60vdc 0.60ma with the cap on and the resistor as load. The second row of the coil puts out 0.05vdc and the third coil show nearly nothing as output (might get something once the control coil is wound and activated with electrical pulses."
Is this a typo or are you really only getting .60mA's? Seems to be a lot of wire used there (mass) and even my smaller coil put out 35 mA's, as did many others here. I didn't know if you meant .60 amps. Your large one should be way above 200mA's at least I would guess. Nice work on the windings, I know how long that takes as do others on here. How you wound that heavy wire on the big one, I have no idea.
Bill
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Hi Pirate,
No, not a typo, it will output a steady 0.60ma while maintaining the 0.6vdc. It will peg the Simpson needle to the max on the 100ma range but the potential drops next to nothing and current also drops in the same manner as the voltage. That's why the low numbers.
The cell is still starting and should improve in the coming days.
Take care,
Michel
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Nice to see another replicator on board to get the Nathan Stubblefield cell functioning.
Sorry to disappoint you. I am not currently able to build.
I am totally Bushed .
My economy is in a shambles .
No money for extras .......not much money for essentials.
The coils you have been working on look great .
I wonder if your yellow coil has enough power to drive a solenoid type switch.
For your toroid I think that 0.60ma ( dry?) is probably very good considering you have 3 coils on there. .... If I understand right .
I believe that most people that added a secondary found that the output dropped .
Do you have a meter that measures inductance?
I would love to see what would happen if each of the coils on your toroid was set to resonate at a chosen frequency ( L C resonance )
gary
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Michel:
Is this a typo or are you really only getting .60mA's?
Bill
Hi Jeanna,
I use a 1 kohm 1/8 watt resistor as constant load on my cells, they seem to gain in power over time, not much but some
Hi Bill,
I think these readings are with the 1kohm resistor??? That means he is getting much (one thousand times) more than .60mA's.
1,000 x .6mA = 600milliAmps, which I think is 0.6A.
Of course, the readings could be without it.
So, Michael, are you reading these with the resistor still attached?
If so, it is very high.
Which is it, please tell us.
thank you,
jeanna
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Hi Jeanna,
Yes, the reading of 0.60ma was with the 1kohm resistor connected in serie with the meter on the cell.
Take care,
Michel
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Hi all,
I installed the NS cell in the sump pump hole. I drilled the cement layer and drove an iron pipe 2 feet 1/2 into the ground so the tip is about 8 feet under the outside ground level, I hope to catch a telluric current that will feed the cell to high power. I installed a 15 watts bulb on the connectors as monitor.
Take care,
Michel
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@ resonanceman ,
Do you have a meter that measures inductance?
I would love to see what would happen if each of the coils on your toroid was set to resonate at a chosen frequency ( L C resonance )
Nope, I don't have one but I'll try to put the scope on it and get a few readings and also some pictures for Jeanna.
The coils you have been working on look great .
I wonder if your yellow coil has enough power to drive a solenoid type switch.
Not yet but if it catches a telluric current, it should light up a good size lamp according to Mr. Stubblefield.
For your toroid I think that 0.60ma ( dry?) is probably very good considering you have 3 coils on there. .... If I understand right .
Thanks, It wasn't dry but surely not wet all over the coils inside. Yes, 3 rows of bifilar iron/copper wires.
I believe that most people that added a secondary found that the output dropped .
It should not lower the output of the main coil, it produce a potential as the cell cycles in AC which is about half the level of the DC readings. The secondary coil on the green cell is showing a little potential on the meter even if the main coil shows nothing, so I guess the iron/copper coil oscillate as soon as it gets moisture.
Take care,
Michel
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Nope, I don't have one but I'll try to put the scope on it and get a few readings and also some pictures for Jeanna.
It should not lower the output of the main coil, it produce a potential as the cell cycles in AC which is about half the level of the DC readings. The secondary coil on the green cell is showing a little potential on the meter even if the main coil shows nothing, so I guess the iron/copper coil oscillate as soon as it gets moisture.
Michel
If you can find a frequency with your scope maybe finding resonance on the primarys will boost the AC higher than the DC
gary
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@ Pirate,
How you wound that heavy wire on the big one, I have no idea.
My thumb is still sore. I made a special coil winder for that cell with a 12" crank and with a brake cause I had to stop at every 10 feet to wrap the coton on the copper wire with 2 layers cross wraped to help prevent shorts. That is probably why the potential is low for its size next time I wrap cotton, it will be the one that stretches so the layer get thinner.
Take care,
Michel
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If it ever gets to the point of needing a spark gap, I found this: http://drsstc.com/~sisg/SISG.pdf (http://drsstc.com/~sisg/SISG.pdf)
I hope this helps.
David
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Michel:
Wow! Then that is 600 mA's if Jeanna's numbers are correct, and I think they are. (Thanks Jeanna, I forgot he was using a resistor) I believe that is a record here for us.
Over 1/2 amp is usable power in my book. This gives me hope for my one day long in the future 55 gallon drum sized coil. If this scales according to the mass of windings in a linear way at all, that would mean possibly 20 amps or so from the drum size coil. One could run a small home heating/air unit from it. (The circuit breaker for my apartment heat pump is 20 amps.)
There has been a lot of discussion about what a scope would tell us that I can't wait to see what it looks like. Maybe the ac readings we have been getting from our coils mean something after all. I agree that the way the dmms are set up that it is not accurate on reading oscillating or pulsed dc. The numbers we read so far may be too high, or too low for reality. It will be interesting to see. Also, won't a scope show the frequency or frequencies of our cell's output as well?
Excellent job on the coils man.
Bill
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Hi Pirate,
That's seems a lot but it is like shorting the earth battery with a 1 ohm resistor and that kind of battery has very little in reserve. Even 0.60vdc is not much to work with, not even enough for a 1.5v digital clock.
Last night we had snow, the big yellow cell voltage is dropping as it doesn't seem to like the cold. It goes up when the sun warms it and drops when it does not.
I bought an analog Simpson 1701 ammeter of EBay and will get it next week. That should give even more precise readings.
Take care,
Michel
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I inherited a very expensive meter (Omega with thermocouple capability) after my Dad's passing so I too will be able to look at readings and see what is what. (Hopefully) I still do not have access to a scope. Even if I did, I would have to learn how to use one. I have not given up. Far from it. I have just been sidetracked with trying to make a living. I am sure all can relate. More to come.
Bill
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I am now working with the famous Joule Thief and supercaps. My hope is to employ both of them along with the earth batteries and see how many LEDs I can light....maybe in time for Christmas.
Bill
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@ All:
I know it's been quiet here for a while but here is some photos. This is my joule thief that I built and also there is a photo of it running on a single AA bat. I used a 10mm super bright white led which calls for 3.5-4 volt dc @ 20 mA to run. It is rated at 28,500mcd and it is very bright. I went with the NPN 2N3904 transistor although I have learned on my other topic "Joule Thief" that there are other transistors that might work even better. I hope to connect this to my original earth battery, which is the electrode style, to see what happens. I suspect that I should be able to light several good sized leds, maybe more, using this cool circuit.
Bill
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I have been following this topic with interest Bill...with consideration to the direction of spin of the earth, would it make a difference which direction your coils were wound ?
In other words, have you tried switching the east west direction of your coil to see if there was an improvement in current ?
Regards..
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@ Cap-Z-ro:
That is an interesting question. I have not tried to wind a coil in the other direction, and I don't know if anyone else has tried that either. Actually, we may have accidentally done that. In other words, I am not even sure which direction (now that I think about it) that I wound my coils. As viewed from the top, I "think" it was clockwise. Very possibly, some of the others wound theirs the other way. This is a good idea though, wind two identical coils, same materials, winds, etc. and reverse the winding on one of them and compare. Hey, now that you mention it, what would happen if these two reverse wound coils (opposite of each other) were then hooked together in series? Would they cancel each other out? Or, would they work in sync and multiply the output?
Thanks for this suggestion.
Bill
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@ Bill
Wouldn't just swapping the north and south poles accomplish the same thing without having to wind a coil in the opposite direction ?
I see the earth as a huge coil rotating in a field, similar to a motor.
Hope I have been of some help.
NS was apparently 'the man' in his time...seeing a young Tesla pictured at one of his demonstrations is testiment to that.
Regards...
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Hi all,
I am on slow motion now, saw my neuro surgeon and he told me surgery wont help my case. He's the sixth I see in 29 years and they all gave the same prognostic. I have to be very careful in what I do and how I do it if I want to keep the use of my left leg. It is still smaller than the right one and been like that since January. >:( Does look like 2 nerves were permanently damage.
The alternator is done. I made a new rotor for the Newman motor and working on a new commutator.
The big cell outside is holding at 0.010vdc even if the temp dips below freezing. The cell in the sump pump hole is probably shot as it shows 0.005vdc now. I'll wind another one as soon as I can. Both cells are wound CW.
My son-in-law brought me a scope, Tektronix 314, I'll take a few screen captures as soon as I go through the primer on how to use it. Looks easy enough but I need to familiarize myself with some calibration procedures and a few odd controls. I'll shop the Velleman portable scopes when he needs the Tektronix, they are cheap and good enough for what I do.
Take care,
Michel
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Here's an interview with Bedini, and in some parts he talks about Stubblefields cell. I believe the answer to Stubblefield's battery has already been solved by Bedini. I think the missing part of how his system works is in the motor, which is what Bedini extended upon, which provides the switch. "Radiant energy" "Kicks"
http://lackluster.gaia.com/blog/2008/4/april08_john_bedini_interview_-_sep07_timothy_thrapp_interview
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I am wanting to get a multi-meter for xmas. What would you recommend? I am no electrical engineer. I simply have started to mess with Earth batteries and other free energy ideas. I just need something for that. Cheap would be wonderful! :P
TIA for any help ;D
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http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G12847
Timmy:
I got one of mine at K-mart but it is a craftsman (sears) meter and it is pretty good. I paid like $29.00 (US)
Above is a link to a great site and, specifically on this page is a meter for $10.00. It should get you started.
I also have an Omega meter (digital) that is very expensive. (over $200.00) that I got from my late father. I have 2 analog meters as well.
If I were you, I would try the $10.00 meter. I am sure it is probably as good as my meter from craftsman. All digital meters have their limitations but we are not building a Spacecraft here, so I think it will be great for your tests.
Bill
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http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G12847
Timmy:
I got one of mine at K-mart but it is a craftsman (sears) meter and it is pretty good. I paid like $29.00 (US)
Above is a link to a great site and, specifically on this page is a meter for $10.00. It should get you started.
I also have an Omega meter (digital) that is very expensive. (over $200.00) that I got from my late father. I have 2 analog meters as well.
If I were you, I would try the $10.00 meter. I am sure it is probably as good as my meter from craftsman. All digital meters have their limitations but we are not building a Spacecraft here, so I think it will be great for your tests.
Bill
Excellent! Thanks Bill! ;D
I will take a look when I get home in a little bit. I just want to be able to see that I am getting something. I haven't been able to light a tiny LED yet with my 2ft copper pipe and zinc coated 8" nail/spike. I put the pipe down to where there's like 4 inches above ground and the spike to have about 1 inch showing. I put then North/South and right next to a root of my backyard tree. I'm going to hook up some kind of solenoid and couple of nails in series and see if I can light my tiny LED. I'm getting my Carbon rod and magnesium, hopefully for xmas, but around then if not. I cant' wait to see what I get with that!
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@ Timmy:
Yes, that meter should do that for you.
Just remember when you say North/South, it has to be on the meridian and not compass/magnetic n/s. Way back in Localjoe's topic someone posted a us geological survey site that gives the magnetic deviation for any area in the US.
Here in Kentucky where I am it is only about 2 degrees so, no big deal. But, it is a big deal in most parts of the country, as well as other countries. (I don't know where you are located)
One way to do this without that info is to set-up everything on a magnetic n/s line and then, do some testing. In other words, plant the carbon rod, this will not have to be moved again. Then, hook up some leads to both the carbon rod and magnesium blocks and put them somewhere on the n/s magnetic heading to your carbon rod. (Not very deep because you will be moving them around a bit) Take some readings of both vdc and mA's. then, move the mag blocks a little in one direction, check again. Keep doing this until you obtain the highest readings of both vdc and mA's. Chances are, this will be the n/s meridian. Even if it isn't, for whatever reason, this is your highest reading so, go with it. Then, plant your blocks in this location. My distance between the electrodes is about 4 feet or so. Again, I did the same thing I just told you to try with the alignment....I tested and, 2 feet was lower than 3 feet, 4 feet was better...etc.
I hope this helps. I really doubt you will be able to light an led using the copper, etc. you might have to add a supercap to your circuit even with the carbon/magnesium like I did to get it to light. It just depends on where you are, soil conditions, etc. I am working on adding a Joule Thief to my circuit (you can read all about them and more at my Jule thief topic on the forum) and I think this will enable us to light a number of superbright LEDs from our earth batteries.
Merry Christmas to you.
Bill
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@ Timmy:
Please keep us posted on your results. Take photos and or video if you can. Once you get some juice out of the ground, we can take a look at applying the joule thief to boost the output to help us light up some LEDs.
I am working on a circuit now from a Fuji camera that others have been able to light a good sized fluorescent tube from an AA battery. I think it would be great to light one of these tubes from an earth battery. Let me know if you need help hooking up you leads to the carbon rod. I posted pictures way back with an easy way to do this. I can post them again if it will help you. Best of luck to you.
Bill
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@ Timmy:
Please keep us posted on your results. Take photos and or video if you can. Once you get some juice out of the ground, we can take a look at applying the joule thief to boost the output to help us light up some LEDs.
I am working on a circuit now from a Fuji camera that others have been able to light a good sized fluorescent tube from an AA battery. I think it would be great to light one of these tubes from an earth battery. Let me know if you need help hooking up you leads to the carbon rod. I posted pictures way back with an easy way to do this. I can post them again if it will help you. Best of luck to you.
Bill
Yes, could you repost how to do that? That would be very helpful! I took apart an old power supply from an old computer of mine and got a small torroid and a large one too. They are covered with some kind of paint or something. Will they work? Also, are they supposed to be magnetic? These aren't.
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http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.0;topicseen
Timmy:
Above is the link to my Joule thief topic. Everything you would ever want to know about them is there.
If you were asking about how to attach your leads to the carbon rod, let me know and I will post a picture.
Bill
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Hi All,
I had an idea just now. this is sparked by the joule thief thread and the camera circuit. so, I guess this is a proper segue??
As you know, I have been thinking about how the wires of the NS generator are supposed to be hooked up. We have never gone beyond the primary and we will need to hook up the secondary after this.
Well, this flash camera as xee2 pointed out to me is using a joule thief-like circuit and is a combined inverter and transformer to high voltage, high frequency. [and the results are astonishing.]
Unlike the little torroid joule thief the flash ckt has 2 primary levels and one secondary level coil. This is very familiar...
So, maybe the secondary is an integral part of the very basic workings of the NS generator and the generator is nothing without the secondary as part of it.
BUT the wires need to be put together in the same way that the flash circuit is. Then the seemingly puny 0.5vdc-1.2vdc will be both inverted and transformed to high frequency high voltage.
I need to wrap my head around this flash circuit and probably make a few so I can do that, then I will move forward on this.
Many people in that joule thief thread are way ahead on this and maybe they can shed some more light (and warmth!) on this.
I guess the main question would be; how to hook up a torroidal joule thief or the NS Generator to be a flash ckt. The NS generator has the same length wires and so it is equivalent to the bifilar part of the torroid but since they have different resistances, they would act like different lengths, I would think. And this would make the whole ckt VERY much like the camera ckt.
Thank you,
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
What I have been thinking, and you know this is out of my field but, I believe that we can use the joule thief to boost the output of both the electrode style EB and the coils. What I am going to try first is the electrode approach (carbon rod/magnesium blocks) and use the small toroid JT to see how many leds I can light. Then, I will employ the Fuji circuit to see if I can light 100 leds or so or a 48" florescent tube. Only then will I move to the coil experiments. I will have to wind a new coil anyway. I am thinking that instead of adding the secondary to the outside of the primary and having to deal with the make/break part of it, we can just use the energy in the primary to power a JT and in the case of the Fuji circuit, this will allow us to do many things.
I am really very excited about this which is why I got involved with these circuits in the first place. I had no idea what they could do.
For those not familiar with the Joule Thief topic, I will post 2 photos here. The first one should be 2, 40 watt 48" long florescent tubes powered by the Fuji circuit and a single AA battery. The second should be of my Christmas tree running 200 leds all powered by the Fuji circuit and 1 AA battery.
Bill
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uqNSCdJP2Og
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bbD8Y_n6VNM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_0W3_E2p8cM&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9jsXFfa9DVY&feature=related
@ All:
Above are some links to some Nathan Stubblefield videos on youtube. (Thanks AbbaRue) This is good background information if any one is interested.
Bill
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Yes, could you repost how to do that? That would be very helpful! I took apart an old power supply from an old computer of mine and got a small torroid and a large one too. They are covered with some kind of paint or something. Will they work? Also, are they supposed to be magnetic? These aren't.
Timmy:
Sorry I didn't post this earlier. (I forgot to) This picture should be of the connectors I made to attach my leads to the carbon rods. Very simple to make. I took some pretty heavy gauge stranded wire (I think it was like 12 or 14) and bent it into a loop, keeping the strands tight together. I made the inside diameter of the loop the same size as the outside diameter of my rods. (1") then, I tinned the wire and tried a test fit. One fit perfectly, a good friction fit with a good connection. The other one, I just added a little more solder, which made the ID just a little smaller and...it then also fit well. Then I just soldered on some round connectors on the other end of the wire and that's it. (I find the round connectors work well with my alligator clamps on my test leads) These have been outside in the weather and on the carbon rods for about a year and they are still holding up. I hope this helps. Let me know if I did not explain this right. Thanks.
Bill
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@ Jeanna:
What I have been thinking, and you know this is out of my field but, I believe that we can use the joule thief to boost the output of both the electrode style EB and the coils. What I am going to try first is the electrode approach (carbon rod/magnesium blocks) and use the small toroid JT to see how many leds I can light. Then, I will employ the Fuji circuit to see if I can light 100 leds or so or a 48" florescent tube. Only then will I move to the coil experiments. I will have to wind a new coil anyway. I am thinking that instead of adding the secondary to the outside of the primary and having to deal with the make/break part of it, we can just use the energy in the primary to power a JT and in the case of the Fuji circuit, this will allow us to do many things.
I am really very excited about this which is why I got involved with these circuits in the first place. I had no idea what they could do.
For those not familiar with the Joule Thief topic, I will post 2 photos here. The first one should be 2, 40 watt 48" long florescent tubes powered by the Fuji circuit and a single AA battery. The second should be of my Christmas tree running 200 leds all powered by the Fuji circuit and 1 AA battery.
Bill
Pirate
Very impressive pictures.
How long can you run those setups with the single AA battery?
My time on the net is very limited right now . can you post a link or something for more information about the fuji circuit? ........or share a little more about what it took to power the lights in the pictures.
gary
gary
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Gary:
http://josepino.com/circuits/?fluorescent_light
The above link is the one I used. The Fuji circuit has been proven to be superior to the Kodak one. (much larger transformer for one thing) Now, there is a slight problem. We have found (on the joule thief topic) that not all Fuji boards are the same. I got the "good" one on the first try, some others had to get 2 or 3 cameras before they got one. Jeanna got one that no one has ever seen before and therefore, we are not much help in her modification of it. I bought another one tonight and I will see what I have later. (And these were all marked as "the same" cameras)
The above link is good and we only made a slight deviation from his instructions. He even says that 4 watts is the limit for this board but, several of us have illuminated 2 48" (40 watts ea.) tubes. Tonight, I am also going to try (if I get the time) for 300 leds powered from a single AA bat.
Feel free to join us over on that topic. The more the merrier and you have a good mind. This stuff just fascinates me.
Bill PS I don't know yet how long this will light. I am still at the stage where I can't believe it lights at all, ha ha. I will test that tho.
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Gary:
http://josepino.com/circuits/?fluorescent_light
The above link is the one I used. The Fuji circuit has been proven to be superior to the Kodak one. (much larger transformer for one thing) Now, there is a slight problem. We have found (on the joule thief topic) that not all Fuji boards are the same. I got the "good" one on the first try, some others had to get 2 or 3 cameras before they got one. Jeanna got one that no one has ever seen before and therefore, we are not much help in her modification of it. I bought another one tonight and I will see what I have later. (And these were all marked as "the same" cameras)
The above link is good and we only made a slight deviation from his instructions. He even says that 4 watts is the limit for this board but, several of us have illuminated 2 48" (40 watts ea.) tubes. Tonight, I am also going to try (if I get the time) for 300 leds powered from a single AA bat.
Feel free to join us over on that topic. The more the merrier and you have a good mind. This stuff just fascinates me.
Bill PS I don't know yet how long this will light. I am still at the stage where I can't believe it lights at all, ha ha. I will test that tho.
Thanks Bill
I will have to look for a source of cameras. I checked one store they said they recycle all of theirs .
Am I right in assuming that the bulb is lit with pulsing DC that normally would be used for charging the main cap?
I have some LED christmas tree lights ....... 4 watts ....I wonder if it would light them up without burning them up .
I am also wondering about connecting a large coil and trying to collect the flyback pulses . .....as they have done on other threads . Such as
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3972.50
starting on reply 58 ( maybe this is not the best example ........but I remember that this circuit had an output voltage about 3 times input )
gary
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Thanks Bill
I will have to look for a source of cameras. I checked one store they said they recycle all of theirs .
Am I right in assuming that the bulb is lit with pulsing DC that normally would be used for charging the main cap?
I have some LED christmas tree lights ....... 4 watts ....I wonder if it would light them up without burning them up .
I am also wondering about connecting a large coil and trying to collect the flyback pulses . .....as they have done on other threads . Such as
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3972.50
starting on reply 58
gary
Just wondering about a few things.
I am assuming that the voltage from the AA battery is stepped up in part by pulsing it .
I wonder what frequency it runs at ?
I am guessing that the resistance within a florescent tube drops fairly low if the voltage is high enough .
What if the florescent bulb could be in effect the " wire " between the main cap and a coil sized to achieve resonance with the pulses from the camera board ?
gary
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@ Gary:
I believe the output from the flash circuit is ac, around 300-400 volts and I have no idea about the freq. but I suspect it is pretty high. Last night, I lit 300 LEDs using a single AA battery and my modified Fuji circuit. I would be careful using this type of circuit on a few leds, I tried at first, just 100 (100 per Christmas light string) and it was way too bright so I only had it connected for maybe 2 seconds. I then did 200 and it looked like they were going to survive so last night I tried 300. They lit up nicely. I tried testing the output from this circuit but my meters won't handle it, and no one on our JT topic was able to measure it.
Bill
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***Duplicate Post Removed***
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So could we say that is circuit has very similar results to the Dr. Stiffler circuit?
Try repeating all the tests he used and if you get the same results as he did then it may be.
Have you tried connecting just one lead from the unit up to those LED's?
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@ Gary:
I believe the output from the flash circuit is ac, around 300-400 volts and I have no idea about the freq. but I suspect it is pretty high. Last night, I lit 300 LEDs using a single AA battery and my modified Fuji circuit. I would be careful using this type of circuit on a few leds, I tried at first, just 100 (100 per Christmas light string) and it was way too bright so I only had it connected for maybe 2 seconds. I then did 200 and it looked like they were going to survive so last night I tried 300. They lit up nicely. I tried testing the output from this circuit but my meters won't handle it, and no one on our JT topic was able to measure it.
Bill
Bill
I remember reading that the output was around 300 V that is why I thought that it might burn up my LED christmas tree lights ........regular lights would be more likely to work with overvoltage .
gary
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Gary:
Yes, for this particular Fuji circuit (there are several variations) it is supposed to be about 300, 350, or 400 volts. I have read all of the above at one time or another. I have no way to test except by the load it powers. (300 leds and counting, grin) I have fried leds before and it is not pretty. (smells too)
Bill
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Gary:
Yes, for this particular Fuji circuit (there are several variations) it is supposed to be about 300, 350, or 400 volts. I have read all of the above at one time or another. I have no way to test except by the load it powers. (300 leds and counting, grin) I have fried leds before and it is not pretty. (smells too)
Bill
Yeah, I fried a transistor and LED a few weeks ago. Wasn't pretty.
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@ All:
Just a note to say that when the ground thaws, I will be testing the EB with supercaps and the joule thief circuits. Might even toss in a solar cell or 3.
Bill
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I think :
1 Bifilar coils may work if properly build as a step down frequency transformers
2. Stubblefield coils must be placed in orientation with Earth magnetic field
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@ Forest:
We have seen experimentally that it does make a difference where you put any earth battery. Alignment is crucial to top performance. These are great little devices.
Bill
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Hi everyone,
Spring is here and soon the soil will be ready to start new cells or revive the old ones. I just found a site that sells cotton wrapped copper electrical wire by the foot or spool to start the season anew.
http://www.sundialwire.com/index.aspx (http://www.sundialwire.com/index.aspx)
My son-in-law found a guy that has a few rolls here and he will buy all that he has. I just hope it is soon as I am ready for a few wraps.
Take care,
Michel
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Thanks for the link. That is good info. Yes....spring...finally!
Bill
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Hi everyone,
Spring is here and soon the soil will be ready to start new cells or revive the old ones. I just found a site that sells cotton wrapped copper electrical wire by the foot or spool to start the season anew.
http://www.sundialwire.com/index.aspx (http://www.sundialwire.com/index.aspx)
My son-in-law found a guy that has a few rolls here and he will buy all that he has. I just hope it is soon as I am ready for a few wraps.
Take care,
Michel
Hi Michelinho,
Good find.
But
I just had a look. I noticed this:
Our wire is manufactured with real cotton or rayon braid, for an authentic vintage look and feel; yet, beneath the cloth covering, is a PVC insulating jacket that meets UL standards for heat resistance up to 105 degrees Centigrade, so you can be assured the wire you are installing is safe. (Please check the details of the specific wire(s) you are considering buying for information on whether or not it is UL-rated and the heat and voltage ratings for that wire.)
darn.
Anyway,
I just got a hand held scope and I will be checking out all my NS generators soon too. It is thawed here, but way too rainy for a new scope!
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Good catch on the insulation under the cotton. I didn't notice that. That would make it not work for this application from what we know. If this wire was cheap enough, maybe one could slide the cotton insulation off in a long length and then slide it back over some solid copper wire?
Great news on your scope. I saw that over on the joule thief topic. I have the latest All electronics catalog and saw that same scope there. A little too pricey for me right now but...maybe in the future. Best of luck with it. I can't wait to see your scope shots on both the NS coils and the JT circuits. It will tell us a lot.
Bill
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@ Jeanna,
Oups, I miss that too.... Sorry.
Not yet prime time here, -14C 2 nights ago, -9C last night, -2C tonight... A few weeks yet.
Take care,
Michel
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@ All:
Crap...it was in the 70's a few days ago, then we had some bad storms and now it is in the 30's again!!! I thought spring was here already. I am ready to plant my earth battery garden now.
Bill
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Same in my neck of the woods Bill...I attribute it to the recent increase in chemtrail activity.
As you know the trails change a clear blue sky into a milky white haze...thereby blocking the sun.
Regards...
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Hi everyone,
I just put together many pieces I have been working and re-working for some time.
Some of these pieces some of you may recognise from last year. They were hunches then and I think I can see how they are fitting together. I won't be setting out to prove it for a while because it is not the right time of the year yet, but for some of you, this is the right time. So todays offering follows.
1- The NS generator is at once a galvanic battery which powers
2- a self contained joule thief including the
a- transistor, with a
b- base bias and a
c- straight (not toroidal) core with a
d- heat sink and
3- secondary for using the output.
1- we have worked on the galvanic part no more needs to be said.
2a- the transistor is created by the 5,6 wires being connected together, and the 10's wires that are shown sticking up in the patent and about which NS says to leave them alone, are in fact inside a metal ball. This is where a tiny spark gap is set up for each end and when the current/voltage arrives at the top it makes a plasma arc and through the interior of the metal ball connects to the other wire. This is very much like the C and E in a transistor. In this version he is using the transistor as a switch.
2b- the base bias is produced by the fact that the iron wire has more resistance than the copper wire.
2c- yes, straight but with a soft iron core not a steel core with zinc coating. I don't believe any of us has made one yet with a true soft iron core.
2d- heat sink. The whole thing by virtue of its being wet and sunk into the earth keeps all the parts cool.
3- secondary. None of us ever got the secondary to produce.
Maybe.
I had one that was closely wrapped right onto the final layer of the primary. It had many fewer turns than either wire of the primary and it did absolutely give off voltage. It gave off voltage from everywhere. I even wrapped a little secondary around one of the wires, I believe the 5 or the iron 10 and it gave off the same voltage.
This is odd that the voltage was the same for 12 turns as for 60 turns secondary. But maybe not.
4- The only part I have not mentioned yet is the magnetic currents on/in the earth., the so called teluric currents. It is possible that the pulsing of these added to the effect of my secondary.
EDIT:
IST made an interesting contribution to this concept last night. He is hand pulsing the battery. The joule thief is making its spikes, but he is adding to it by hand pulsing the battery. I am drawing a link here between this pulsing and teluric currents. thanks ist. watch this and see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1f9p08HRHg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1f9p08HRHg)
BTW no one ever commented on the results of this coil but I think it was only because we were all focused on raising the primary to a higher voltage. 0.385v just didn't seem worth noticing.
But, now, after working with the elements of the joule thief, I am very interested in continuing this NS generator.
Maybe he did use an arc lamp.
Maybe he was heating his house from a hot plate made hot by the wires connected to it.
thank you all,
jeanna
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmsDvNDTz_w
@ All:
Above is a link to my latest earth battery experiments where I am lighting an ultrabright 28,000MCD LED using the EB and a Joule Thief circuit. This is my new set-up using my 2 carbon rods and my 5 pound block of magnesium. more tests to come. I just wanted to put this one out there as I have been waiting a long time to do it.
Bill
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I should have explained better. Last year, I was able to light some leds but they were small and not like this ultrabright one. Also, I was using a small super then as well. I will get into these other tests as soon as I can but this is just test #1 for this new system.
Bill
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This is so great, Bill,
As I mentioned on youtube, I am jealous.
But, I am also encouraged. I believe the reason I had mediocre results last year with my EB's may be partly due to the fact that I didn't use fatso wire on all of the battery parts. I saw the wire on the video, and it really is much thicker than what I used.
It is probably all I need to let the amps flow into my jt and lights.
Thanks again for a great inspiration.
jeanna
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Jeanna:
No, thank you for all of your hard work. As you see, I backed up a little from the NS coil to the electrode approach. Nothing like lighting a few leds to get some inspiration. I will get back into the coils later on but for now, I want to test the limits of this set-up. I have already had comments on youtube that it takes more electricity to make magnesium than I will ever get out of it. We shall see.
Bill
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Here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4gRDwPqSz4
Of my new earth battery set-up running 4 ultrabright 10mm 28,000 MCD leds from my joule thief. The earth battery is powering the joule thief. This is so cool.
I know I can light more.
Bill
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Here is a video of my earth battery lighting 7 ultra bright leds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEr6-4TeCTA
Each led is 10mm, 28,500 MCD, 3.5-4.5 forward voltage and 30 mA's.
Bill
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I am now lighting 100 leds form my earth battery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaUBxUJrGzY
Bill
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Here is a video of me lighting an 18" long 15 watt tube from my earth battery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fV-xjRy3I4
Bill
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@all
AMAZING>>>> Bill - just figured id check in your tube video was inspiring and im happy you folks kept with it !!!!! Ive been dealing with family health problems lately but hope to be back in the game soon i'll msg you guys next time im on for some updates if your willing.
In the words of the great Spock/William bell "Live long and Prosper"
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Joe!
Good to hear from you man. Thank you. Sorry to hear about the family situation, I hope things get better.
This all started out on your topic after you stuck some electrodes in the ground. I have learned so much from a lot of folks on here and on Youtube.
I hope you can get back into this soon. With the Joule Thief circuits, and supercaps, there is no telling what we can end up powering.
Take care,
Bill
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@Bill,
Thanks for the kind words, im just happy to see all the the cool directions the project has taken you folks.
a few questions for ya
- what changes have been made to your cell in the ground or is it still your original
- average charge time on the caps in parallel between the cell and the jt? i might have misread the config so bear with me
- there's a few ways to take this for conversion and im wondering how you guys have been leaning
now that people are running high frequency/ hv circuits i think it opens up new possibilities on the alternator dynamo idea , im gonna take a look at tesla's patents again that deal with taking high voltage low amperage current and transforming it to a workable voltage and a quantity of amperage.
secondly, I mentioned this in the other thread a thermo - mechanical conversion may be possible through a sterling engine
the sterling engine/motor can work off of a small temperature differential even the heat from a human hand will drive it, so i postulated from gadgetmall's exp powering the green laser from the earth cell that it would be possible to heat a small element attached to a sterling motor with the laser in order to provide the temperature differential to start it.
Joe
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Joe:
Yes, I saw your post over there, that is a great idea. I built a small sterling engine about 8 months ago, they are really fascinating.
My "New" configuration is basically the old one using the same 2 carbon rods and I bought a 5 pound block of magnesium for the south side. This is the type used for preventing corrosion of in the ground tanks and it comes in a bag with some powder that increases the amps output. These are used all the time and the specs say it will give over 1 amp of differential between the tank and the mag block. These last years and years on the tanks and now, I think my carbon rods are too small as I am not getting that much power yet but with the north/south set-up, I believe there will be very little, if any, destruction of the magnesium but only time will tell. Other than that, it is the same. I want to get a larger cap to really see what can be powered from it. They are pretty expensive so it will be a little while. But even with a small EB hooked to a joule thief using a supercap, folks would be amazed at how many leds can be lit from it.
The folks on the joule thief topic, while all working together really well, don't all have the same goals in mind, which is fine. i think there is only me, and one other guy using them with the earth battery at this time. Hopefully soon there will be others. Take care.
Bill
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Great results with the EB - J/T - Led combo Bill!!!
I read where your voltage dropped when the ground got wet...it may help if you cover the area around where your electrodes are planted with a ground sheet of some type.
Who knows, you may be able to get better voltage if the local ground is wet...you may even have to use a certain diameter to get the optimum results.
You've come a long way in a short time...keep up the good work.
A little pirate music during your video intro may be in order to to help this new era of development.
Regards...
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Cap:
Thank you. Those are all good suggestions. I just noticed the thing about the moisture because, to me, it seemed counter-intuitive that the dryer the ground, the better it works. At least here in my soil with these rods and block. I like the plastic sheet idea. Thanks.
Bill
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Here is my earth battery lighting a 48" tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kL8ys8m0-4
Bill
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bill,
Exactly what are those 2 caps?
Last year you used a supercap that looks different from the 2 you used in the video. Are they available somewhere? (Like radioshack? she asked hopefully.)
The sun came out today, so I may find a new better place for some probes. I dismantled my EB last year. I want to seed the area with some EM. That is used to keep septic bacteria alive and clean out drains and boost compost. It ought to have whatever it is that makes good soil with plants in it make good EB's.
Thank you so much for doing that and putting the video up.
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Thank you. Those are utlracaps from Digikey. They are 2.3 volt 10 F. here is a link to a page with a 100F cap at 2.7 volts but you can navigate from there to find what you want:
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/90423-capacitor-ultra-100f-2-7v-radial-eshsr-0100c0-002r7.html
RS carries NO supercaps at all....at least in my location. I believe my caps were about $6 ea. or so.
Gadgetmall is selling 650 F caps on his site for about $50. I still want my 3,000F cap but it is $130.00. Has to wait.
Bill
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Jeanna:
Actualy, I was wrong. Mine are 2.7 volt not 2.3 like I thought. (Hard to read it)
Here is a direct link to the 2.7v 10 F caps:
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/90420-capacitor-ultra-10f-2-7v-radial-eshsr-0010c0-002r7.html
Looks like they are about $3.00 each.
Bill
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Bill,
I forgot to ask the other question. I assume you must have both supercaps, but I want to directly ask this, since you just put it into the breadboard because it was there, did you need it for the 48 inch to light?
Thanks for the info.
jeanna
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Jeanna:
I never tried the 48" with just one so I guess I need 2. Or, a 20 F cap would do it also I believe. I am looking into some larger caps and I am going to have to work my way to the 3,000f unit. A 300-600f cap should do nicely. I do know the Fuji circuit would not fire up without any caps.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I am wondering what the limit is. Or really how much capacitance is necessary here?
The fuji flash ckt uses 62uF and 300 volts but at a different place. Still, you might only need one, OR maybe the one you used last year to help get the led on from your EB would be enough? that is 1F 5.5volts
It would be nice if these caps were easy things to find and get. I forgot to stop at RS this morning . I meant to see what the hiF cap they have is.
It is a nice day here, maybe I will go and see.
I put the EM microbes in the soil today. It should be ready whenever I find my mag block... ;)
(yeay Stephan got the php to work with camino!!!)
jeanna
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My earth battery lighting 200 leds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLzdHRovnbo
Bill
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Here is a video of me running a One Magnet no Bearing Bedini Motor from my earth battery and a 650 Farad 2.7 volt supercap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY
Bil
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OK
This repeat of pics is especially for Artic Knight.
The patent and brochure show details for building the unusual part of the coil. I have come to realize after reading many pages of Tesla's lectures, that certain things were well understood by people back then which are not used anymore and so are completely forgotten.
The use of sparks to 'prove' that there is electricity happening is one.
The use of sparks to create the make and break is another.
Tesla devoted pages and hours in study and explanation of how to overcome the problems inherent in using the spark.
The father-son portrait shows 3 units with the globes in place.
The one outside shows NS in a spot in between 2 generators which are at least 30 feet apart, maybe 30 feet from him in the center.
So, some of the juice could be coming from the antenna effect as well as the teluric earth effect and the small galvanic effect.
He used iron wire and copper wire.
There is a very small galvanic difference between these twu metals.
Except for one, we all used zinc coated wire which has the galvanic effect of pure zinc for a while.
The one I still have planted is one with iron and copper wires wound on an iron stake.
I don't think the iron is soft iron, though.
He specifically said soft iron.
He had an idea lake Gary, to make this something anybody could make from simple and readily available materials.
I hope this is what you want to see.
I have pics of mine, but I think you wanted to see his. There are many others peppered throughout both eb threads.
jeanna
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Here are some pics I relocated of Stubblefield's earth batteries.
Bill
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Also......
-
These 3 that follow are from the brochure on the "battery".
There is a hand written note referring to how the patent office refused to allow the name he wanted and insisted on naming it a battery.
In light of the inverter/induction coil as joule thief, I wanted to add these to the photo album.
jeanna
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@ Jeanna:
Great post!!! That tells a whole lot does it not? Funny how we worked on these and then moved to the joule thief and now.......it's like deja vu all over again.
Thanks.
Bill
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Here is a video of my earth battery and Fuji circuit running 400 leds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agqKEed7AOI
More to come.
Bill
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thanks guys, you always were my favorite :) so this doesnt look like the same old EB thread? what happened? i havent been playing with EB's as you can tell for a while.
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this doesn't look like the same old EB thread? what happened?
Here is where it all began.
localjoe changed the name a while ago, but this is his original EB thread...
This is the one with all the background information on probes-in-the-ground
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.0)
jeanna
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Hey everybody, I was first thinking on posting this at the main Stubblefield tread, but then I thought it would maybe be more on topic placing it here.
I've recently been playing a lot with the solid state version of the Bedini SSG by placing a car ignition coil at the output instead of a battery. It can transmit the electric fields at a distance and light all kinds of gas bulbs.
If I connected a bulb between it and a large aluminum surface I could get it to light, and recently I made a simple earth connection by hammering a normal copper tube down in the ground, some meters below the room I'm using.
With the earth I got a much better reaction from the SSG, being able to light much more with 'Just one wire'....
I know this because I'm running the SSG of a battery so there is no other earth connection for it to enter.
I've also placed a Am/FM radio close to the setup and it pick up everything I do.
Then I noticed something interesting. When the SSG was completely powered down, I could here a click in the radio when I touched an aluminum plate with the earth wire, it responded more the closer to the plate it was placed. The plate was not connected to anything, it was just lying by itself in the room.
I then tried to connect a small neon bulb between the aluminum plate and the ground and it lit up, but very dimly! As far as I know, a neon bulb normally requires about 60 or more volts to light up, and no galvanic cell can put that much out! There is very little current here, and the meters can't read anything (I got both an analog and a digital multimeter).
I think this is related to the Stubblefield batteries, even if I'm using only a single rod, maybe it is a clue to the real workings of the battery. I don't think galvanic reactions has anything to to with these batteries at all, so maybe the placement of two rods is just something we unintentionally want to do because it resembles the common battery more????
Anyway, I think this is interesting, and I've tried as hard as I can to remove any other source of power which can react to the wire. And no, we don't have any power lines in the earth around here, it all goes by the air :D
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Naboo:
That is very interesting indeed! Yes, there is far more going on here than galvanic that much I can say for sure. Please follow up on your discovery and do some experiments. I would be very interested in your findings.
@ All:
I am re-posting this site which is a calculator to determine the magnetic deviation and dip angle for your area:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp
I hope this helps. It is a good site.
Bill
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@ Pirate88179
I am still puzzled at how you can charge a 640 Farad capacitor so quickly. I think the attached calculations are correct. Theoretically you would need an average of about 100 ma to charge it to 1 volt in 4 to 9 hours. Charging to 2 volts would take 4 times as long and require 2 volts from EB. Would you be willing to measure the current going into the battery while it is being charged to see if it is about 100 ma? I may need to study my theory some more.
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XEE2:
I don't think those figures are correct at all. At least not for supercaps which are totally different. About 2 years ago, Coleman came out with a cordless screwdriver that had no batteries only supercaps. The standard lithium battery took 8 hours to fully charge and would run the drill for 4 hours. The supercap version would only run the drill for 2 hours, BUT, would fully recharge in 5 minutes! The technology has improved since that time and you are going to see more of these replacing rechargeable batteries in many applications.
Also, about 2 years ago, my first supercap (.47 F 5.5 volt) would charge up from the old style EB in like 5 seconds of connection and would run a red led for over 15 minutes.
Bill
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Also, about 2 years ago, my first supercap (.47 F 5.5 volt) would charge up from the old style EB in like 5 seconds of connection and would run a red led for over 15 minutes.
Bill
Say what!!!??? That sounds like more power than you have been using in your loads, even the florescent bulb and motor.... Its just incredible. And you know what I think? Its radiant energy!
That neon bulb I used with the earth wire, it lit up just the same way as when I move it close to any of the wires on the solid state SSG, and I'm pretty sure it is a radient event which allows that energy to be transmitted wirelessly. Just like the spikes with almost pure potential can recharge a battery extremely efficient, maybe an earth battery does almost the same with a supercap. At least its something to think about :-\
Nab
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@ Nabo00o
That neon bulb I used with the earth wire, it lit up just the same way as when I move it close to any of the wires on the solid state SSG, and I'm pretty sure it is a radient event which allows that energy to be transmitted wirelessly. Just like the spikes with almost pure potential can recharge a battery extremely efficient, maybe an earth battery does almost the same with a supercap. At least its something to think about
Neon lit with one lead by high voltage JT. Power lead from JT can be grounded to earth.
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@ Nabo00o
Neon lit with one lead by high voltage JT. Power lead from JT can be grounded to earth.
Well I know that, I see it in your image. However I can make it light by simply placing it near the wire of my SSG even without touching it, a spark gap does also seem to magnify the effect.
If I touch the bulb on the glass it glows very brightly and if I touch a lead or connect it to the ground or a plate it will light extremely bright. Anyway, it seem hard even to explain how one wire can carry any real power, which is I * V. But when it is pure voltage coming of as a field, and it still makes stuff light up, I wonder how we use up power to make that happen...
This much like the Avramenko setup, just without the diodes and capacitor.
Naboo
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A buddy of mine on Youtube posted this and asked me to bring it to your attention:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxa_G4X8Y7k&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxa_G4X8Y7k&feature=related)
He did not film this and it is in some language I do not recognize but it is what appears to be an earth battery, joule thief, spark gap (Jeanna will like this) and God knows what else and they are lighting about a dozen incandescent bulbs from it.
It is a 7 part series (the link above is for part 1) and maybe someone here will be able to figure out what they are saying. It is very interesting to say the least. I can't quite figure out what they are doing even though I recognize some of the components.
Bill
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A buddy of mine on Youtube posted this and asked me to bring it to your attention:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxa_G4X8Y7k&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxa_G4X8Y7k&feature=related)
He did not film this and it is in some language I do not recognize but it is what appears to be an earth battery, joule thief, spark gap (Jeanna will like this) and God knows what else and they are lighting about a dozen incandescent bulbs from it.
It is a 7 part series (the link above is for part 1) and maybe someone here will be able to figure out what they are saying. It is very interesting to say the least. I can't quite figure out what they are doing even though I recognize some of the components.
Bill
Hmm, that looks really interesting, and I've only seen the first part yet. That language is really uncommon to hear, maybe it is some form of African or an Arabian like language? It seems like he is placing a normal car radiator in that hole.....
But I am pretty sure that we need to think completely different in terms of normal current electricity if we want to understand how earth batteries and radios works. Something to think about; Art Bells huge radio antenna could generate enormous sparks of current and voltage, and it happened only when he closed the switch. Maybe the reason to why I can light up a neon with the ground is that the elevated room creates a potential from the ground, as a result from height. Maybe you could try to put a neon bulb between the terminals of your battery Bill?
Naboo
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deleted post
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Jeanna:
WTG!!!!! Hey, it has a JT so also post this in the JT topic. Also, maybe on Jim's topic as well. Folks need to see this stuff and that it DOES work and you CAN do USEFUL things with an EB and a JT. (I call making free light useful, call me crazy)
Now add a supercap and....lookout!!!
Very well done Jeanna.
Bill
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Jeanna:
WTG!!!!! Hey, it has a JT so also post this in the JT topic. Also, maybe on Jim's topic as well. Folks need to see this stuff and that it DOES work and you CAN do USEFUL things with an EB and a JT. (I call making free light useful, call me crazy)
Now add a supercap and....lookout!!!
Very well done Jeanna.
Bill
Hi Bill,
You beat me to it,
I just went back and it is dark enough to see nothing.
I guess the resin was picking up the neighbor's sodium light.
It was a nice feeling. I will have it for real soon, maybe tomorrow.
I will follow jim's suggestions and use the 4007 diodes on both sides.
It was the same supercap you used last year.
thanks Bill,
jeanna
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Jeanna:
I didn't and have not used any diodes. I know Jim does but, when I think about it, to me they are sort of like a resistor in that they take a little power to work. Have you tried with just the EB and the supercap and led? Try hooking up the EB to the supercap and wait a minute or two and then use your clips to add the led. (in parallel to the cap and EB) I'll bet it lights up and, now that you are drawing from the EB, it will appear to raise the output to keep up with it.
You will get it soon I know and yes, it is a Great feeling.
Bill
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Yes, I have tried all those things. I even tried the diode thing earlier this year.
I think the point is this:
The earth currents are going both ways. If I can only catch the ones going into the cap and not allow any to leave the cap except to the joule thief, I should get the light.
I got nothing by putting the diode at the end of the cap lead and connecting the jt to that end.
I had to connect the jt to the cap directly.
So, the diode let the electricity into the cap but when something was pulling it out, it was not allowed to go through the diode's reverse, but instead went into the jt .
When Jim described the faster switching I didn't understand, but now I realize the earth currents must be switching very quickly and with the slower diode, I am missing a lot of opportunity to collect it .
0.937v is very low. Your 'currents' are much higher. I will get it soon. I just don't want to do it by mistake.
jeanna
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Quote from Jeanna:
"I just don't want to do it by mistake"
Hey, why not? That's what I did, ha ha. (seriously)
Bill
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Quote from Jeanna:
"I just don't want to do it by mistake"
Hey, why not? That's what I did, ha ha. (seriously)
Bill
;D ,
Yes, of course. Kind of like dropping the wire and watching the leds go ablaze in my 2 tier circuit.
What I meant by mistake, which is a strange expression, was that I didn't want to claim I had something by mistake. So, when I found the mistake which was not at all to do with the circuit, but the neighbor's sodium light, I deleted it. Not wanting to claim I had found anything when that claim was a mistake.
I plan to either just change the diodes on this JT or
make a jt just for this EB.
I actually did that when I got the germanium transistors from gadgetmall. It did not do anything then, but now, I realize my mistake with the diode, I might incorporate that germanium transistor into my EBJT.
The maritime weather has returned today, so I can think and do. I just might!
jeanna
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http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=339 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=339)
This is another step not unlike droppng the wire.
I took an old rusty NS generator from the shoebox. This is one that had a small output, but always did remarkable things.
And this time is no exception.
I took it out of the shoebox because long ago, I had wrapped a coil around one of the wires; and last night ist wrapped a little wire around a functioning wire of one of his newest coils, so I wanted to look at this thing with my scope.
I added 2 copper wires to the stiff and old copper and iron wires that may be called the 10's. (One might be the other end called the 5.)
I planned to connect this to a joule thief and had the scope probes in place when I turned on my newest working joule thief project.
I happened to look at the scope...
Ya gotta watch it!
jeanna
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Hi everybody,
this is the next step.
I just posted my first ever youtube movie, and it is the repeat/continuation of the above mentioned movie. It will be followed by the rest of the videos I made yesterday to show people what a Stubblefield battery can do when in the presence of an oscillating frequency.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA)
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Great video!! This just might be a good missing piece of the puzzle here. None of us ever did anything like that with our coils. Great work.
Bill
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And the second half.
Same tests with 2 different larger stubblefield generators
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ZFKDSxFTE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ZFKDSxFTE)
jeanna
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Jeanna that is the way to do a video! No music or background distractions. I even had a chuckle on your description for the plastic cover. "Its so dirty"
Reminded me of my granddaughter. :) Good stuff Jeanna!
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Thanks IotaYodi.
Hi everybody,
I tried another NS coil with my jt last night.
This is the one that I made to be NON galvanic.
It is made on a 3/8" bolt, with zinc coated steel wire, and tele cat-5 wire for the copper.
I used this a few months ago as a joule thief and at that time added a smallish secondary. It is a step down transformer in that respect.
What happened last night is this coil picked up the 58hz waves in the house. It was stronger when the cfl was on. But then, I turned the JT on and the peak to peak rose to 1.3volts.
So, I am beginning to believe that the NS coil is a really good receiver.
It makes a whole lot of sense, because NS did make a wireless phone system based on this.
I guess it was quite a bit more than a battery.
Induction coil is one of the items in the brochure.
I don't remember the brochure claiming this was a receiver... but the word and concept was only just being invented, wasn't it?
I plan to stick my NS coils one at a time into the ground and feed into them through the 5, and 6 wires the juice from the EB.
Then, I will read what the scope says.
I hope the eb juice going into the wires doesn't take away the receiver element.
I have noticed that NS always put these in pairs with 30 feet of wire in between, so, I am open to trying that too. Maybe one of these could be acting as a receiver while the other is being powered by the EB and acting like a transmitter?
Of course, all the power will be extracted from the secondary wires, as in all my tests.
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Great work!
I don't remember what topic this came up in but, (you have probably seen it) Jim suggested that the EB is not an actual battery at all. Now you are saying the same thing for the NS coils you have.
Maybe we should change the vernacular to EER. (Earth Energy Receiver) With what I think I know now, this would be more accurate.
Even with just my electrode experiments and my scope shots, I think I can say this is probably more accurate and true.
You probably mentioned this somewhere way back in our "old" days but now, with what we think we know now, what do you think?
If you look at the Kapandze topic, and I know you are there, this is the best explanation I could come up with. I know you have posted this elsewhere and my question is......
Do you think if we began talking about EER's that anyone would be interested or know what were were talking about?
Bill
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Well, if we put a B in front of the EER they probably would...
;D
I like the name and I like what happens when you change the name of something. The effect is subtle, but it goes in. It is like the subtle effect the little dc box circuit has had on all of us this last century. It seems such a silly thing, but it actually is profound.
If we started to call them EER's OUR thinking would change and grow bigger.
I am being blown away at the changes in my own paradigm about the stubblefield coil.
Here.
I am wondering if that induction coil - the ignition coil- I bought last week would do a better job than any of my stubblefield coils. There are more secondary turns and it is designed to bring 12 volts up by thousands of volts.
As long as the earth energies are pulsing and we have seen that they are, any coil will respond.
I think there is so much voltage and flyback that can be stimulated if I use a powerful coil like the ignition coil, will I get much more than 104millivolts?
I found the data sheet on my little coil earlier today. That coil only ever produced 0.118volts when I had it going last year. That is the same as now as a receiver.
So, what is next?
I think we were so close last year.
I will put it in between the probes and let them feed voltage in the way we have seen on the scope many times changing up and down, and see what kind of flyback and all can come of it.
This is very exciting how it is all coming together.
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Are you suggesting that you take your automotive coil apart and stick it in the ground? ??? ??? Now THAT would be a great experiment! Maybe you don't even have to take it apart? (Thinking now along the lines of Energy Receivers) This could be huge!!! Also, if it works at all, these would be very easy to series and parallel with.
I like the way you think!
Bill PS: BEER would be a very popular name, ha ha....good one!
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You guys are definitely on to it...it won't be too long before everybody starts hooking up modern components to the earth pulses.
" Well, if we put a B in front of the EER they probably would..."
*guffaws*
If this thing goes bifilar the 'B' wood certainly fit with nicely with the 'EER'.
Regards...
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Jeanna:
Are you suggesting that you take your automotive coil apart and stick it in the ground? ??? ???
Yup.
But I would leave my car alone.
Last week I watched a bunch of imhotep's instructional videos and decided to get an ignition coil. I saw a cheap one but with the shipping it was 40. well OK I can budget that in.
I was going past the auto parts store and turned in and they had a small one for 21 bucks.
The guy warned me that it didn't have the resistor which is usually part of the set up. (I smiled)
Now THAT would be a great experiment!
Thanks. I think so too.
This could be huge!!! Also, if it works at all,
It will work.
It is something like a combo of the "energy from free space invention" with the antenna from tesla, and the EER that we referred to last night over the b-eer.
Getting it to work will take all of us working together in our own personal styles as has been working so well so far.
these would be very easy to series and parallel with.
Exactly.
Or, once it is transformed up it can be split as I am playing with the secondary in my ac experiments, and some goes into a cap and some goes straight and there you have 2 phases. One with a punch and one as an oscillation wave.
Or it can be split multiple times and each one can power a different thing.
I better put a hat on... it is all starting to fall out of my brain!
Thanks,
jeanna
HA cap:
Bifilar-Earth-Energy-Receiver
I love it. That just took 3 of us. What a team we are!
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I wonder if someone could post a picture of the NC ...AND.. the NO Reed switch. I have seen some online but they don't appear to be what you are talking about...they look to be too big for our purposes. (but what do I know?)
I am in the second reading of this forum. The first reading ended at page 37, so I guess I am actually in the first reading, in part, as I am now on page 54. I want to just continue reading and learning, but such things as housework, dishes, lawn mowing, laundry, etc., seem to get in the way. I also have wire and bolts to start making more coils. So if I take time out from my reading to make a nice, tight, coil in preparation for the eventual reed switch, then I lose out on learning more new ideas. You are all so far ahead of me and I am not sure just how far you have progressed in the making of the NS EB as per patent. Pictures would help so much. On that note...sometimes I cannot see the photos when you post links to them, or downloads to them. I only have Acrobat 5 and my computer runs 98. It is lousy, I know...but what I have to deal with at this time. So I miss out on all the youtubes (computer locks up every time) and when I try to open your pdf's, it cannot be opened. Perhaps I could transfer the file over to another 'puter with acro 6. Would that work? I feel like I am so far behind I will never catch up. I have all the equipment to make the rods for inground (not eb) yet have not got that far. Have plenty of the mag blocks, and copper, and alum etc. So much to do and so liitle time. And yet if I take time out from reading, then I get further behind. You are all going so fast. Maybe I will turn off the phone, lock the door, and stay up all night reading, and perhaps one of these days I will be in tune with the rest of you.
Any pictures of the reed switch so I know which ones to buy? Also where do I order them? (cheapest place, please) Thanks
Reason for using this old computer instead of the other: The viruses are much easier to clean off win98. Too many little places to hide files in winXP. Wish I had a MAC! Anyone want to donate one....for the "cause" (cause I want one) ;D
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Ah protonmom,
I could have donated my old iMac but I made it into a linux box instead!
That might be a way for you to go, but it will take time away from catching up. oh well, it IS all great stuff.
The direct answer to your Q is we never really got there. One person bought a few reed switches, but then his life got busy and I think?? we decided it won't work too well.
The problem is the mechanical devices need to operate too many times per second and their life expectancy is exhausted in a few short hours.
Have you switched to firefox yet?
Once you have that onboard, you could get adobe's latest update for the pdf reader and the flash so you could view the smaller videos. ( as with so many things flash has morphed from a slim beauty to an overweight hulk).
Where did you get your mag blocks? I may not end up going that way, but I would like to know.
I hope some of this helps,
jeanna
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@Jeanna
I am up to page 60. Twenty nine more pages to read yet tonight. At least, I hope I can. Sometimes I fall asleep at the computer. Not that I am bored, but that I am just tired! I push myself too much sometimes.
The mag blocks I got from Walmart camping section. I also bought those metal tent stakes they have (with the removable orange plastic stops at one end). They are very magnetic, but not sure if that means they are soft or hard iron/steel. I also have a box full of long bolts. I think I will use the stakes for the earth probes, and the bolts for the ns earth batteries.
So, then...it turns out the reed switch is not the way to go? It seemed like the answer. Guess I will find out why as I read along.
I just read on page 58 Gary suggested using a Joe cell along with an NS EB. I was thinking the same thing, only Gary says to use dirt instead of water. Did he try that yet? Again, when I get back to the "rest of the story" I will probably find out what happened.
I am going to try to read the NS brochure you uploaded for us. I am transferring it over to the other computer.
I actually have a few ideas, myself, which I will eventually share if I find them to be at all useful.
I WILL get caught up on my reading tonight...I will, I will.
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Protonmom:
Well if you have the mag blocks, go for the carbon rods for the plus side. If you want a good source for almost free carbon rods, as someone told me once, you can take D cell batteries apart (very carefully due to the acid nature of the paste filling) and there is a carbon rod inside each bat. I think it is about 1/2" dia. x the length of the D cell. you could band about 5 of these together and have a pretty good mass of almost free carbon. I am sure you can ask around from friends and find some dead D cells and then it would be free to you. This will give you very good output.
Bill
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As I recall Bill, I believe they are about 1/4 inch thick in a 'D' cell.
Regards...
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@Jeanna
I tried to return the pm but it wouldn't let me...locked up again. One of these days I will do my profile. Just have not had the time.
If you go to Walmart please check out those tent spikes I bought and see if you think they are suitable for ground probes. They better be as I have a dozen of them. I have seven of the mag fire starters.
@Bill
I have four or five of the large batteries ready to be taken apart for the carbon rods inside. Again, been busy with the reading. I had figured I had better read all I could so I didn't make too many mistakes.
Still not done messing around with that pancake I made. I re-hooked the wires in a new config and got better readings from it. There are only two layers of bifilar windings on it so far. I got it wet this morning, and it has been drying out all day. It now reads at V 20... .79 At A20m.... .51 I believe those are the two readings Jeanna said mattered (without going back to her post to check) I am thinking if I put several more layers on it, I might end up with some good reads.
As for the new B-eers, or bifilar earth energy receivers I still want to keep the old ones and try to make them work, but I also plan to make a lot of new ones. And then there are the earth probes parts just sitting there waiting for me to put them together. I have a lot of projects lined up. As soon as I get my cam pics transferred to this computer I will post what I have made so far.
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@Bill
What size cap should I get? I want to get a decent sized supercap (more than one)
I saved the link for digikey. Is that the best place as far as prices go? I have not been able to view any youtube or other videos yet, so I have no idea just what you used for your setup. Could you give me a list of parts for my shopping list? That would be for the joule thief, and whatever else you made. Super cap, toroid, wire, resistor, LED (what type do I use...or what size?) etc. Time to do some ordering.
I still want to get the NC reeds. What kind do I get? Is there a certain number on it? Do you have a picture of the right one? (I have not given up on the reed switch just yet)
If anyone else has a list of parts for me, please post it. Thanks
Also, I have a bunch of old one time cameras, and I think there are several Fugi. Is there a certain serial number or anything so I know I am using the correct one?
Forgot to mention that I am now CAUGHT UP with the reading. Two complete reads on Joe's forum and two reads here. I see there are a lot of pages on the Joule thief forum so ....ouch! Better rest up a little before I start on that one.
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Congratulations!
2 reads is perfect! (I think)
ok 1-
Profile
look and layout.
scroll down a little and you will see number of posts per page.
Forum default is 10.
It doesn't matter if it is long or short 10.
So, if you change it to 25 or 50 you will get the same stuff at the top, but the page will continue until all 25 or 50 posts are on there. I think the joule thief thread has 165 pages.
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My opinion again says stick a couple of probes into the ground and enter your readings in the datalogging thread.
Carpenter pencil is carbon and works well. I stuck mine into some spent britta filter granules in a hole in the ground. That was pretty good. The problem with the carbon is it doesn't respond well to solder. The welding rods come with copper coating. I am sure you remember since you just read it. Mag is good too and zinc nail is what most people are doing as a standard on the datalogging, so you could make it easy on yourself and just do copper pipe and dipped nail.
Stubblefield coil is probably worth making. I made many and I can still find uses for them. More is coming up on that angle, too.
I am using the one that is made of plastic covered copper and bare iron a lot. It is the one I refer to as nongalvanic. It definitely does something. It is an induction coil, and it just might be a kind of ignition coil. And maybe more.
So make at least one with plastic (telephone extension cord) wire and plain steel wire or annealed wire on a bolt and use it with a secondary.
It IS possible to make that one 6 layers on a 3/8 " bolt and have enough room to slip a whole spool of RadioShack mag wire over it. Sand the 2 ends of the mag wire and you have a very nice secondary.
I love that I am not finished with them and I can keep thinking of ways to use them!
jeanna
jeanna
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@All
I sure hope we are not finished with the original NS EB. My scientific/curious mind wont let me quit. ("If that's all there is my friend, then let's keep winding, let's bring out the B-eer and have a ball, if that's all - there is.")
I will keep my babies- coil one and two and pancake one and try to develop them into something useful. Then I will also make a new version with all the bells and whistles I can find. I am tempted to try to make my own relay..but not sure if I am capable of doing that. I can read. I can follow directions if they are clear and to the point. So I should be able to make one. Today I plan to try a joule thief. Looked at the innards of one of my cameras and I think I can understand it. Guess I will find out soon enough if I shock myself. I want to try the ignition coil also, so will picking up one of those to play with too. Looks like it might rain today so that gives me an excuse to stay indoors making probes. (how much do you want to bet I will get involved in reading the joule thief forum and wont do anything else?)
I would still like a photo of the correct reed switch to use.....PLEASE. Also, a photo of the correct super cap. Photos just seem to work better for me. Anyone??? PLEASE???
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OH I thought you had a problem seeing pix.
Good, you don't.
I might find some pix of the probes but a nail and a copper pipe is all I could show. I would show the cement pots.
Also the Stubblefield generators.
So this is the one made on a ...[edit: Galvanized steel bolt].... but it has a plastic wrapping over the secondary and this is the best shot before that piece of clothing went on.
This is coil #9
It has a full spool (200 feet) of red radioshack wire wrapped very carefully as the secondary.
The top is a lid from a yogurt tub with holes poked into it so the wires can be labeled and so they stay where I want them.
jeanna
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Thanks Jeanna. Yes, I can see MOST of the pics just fine. It is the ones where you provide a download to view, that I have trouble with...and I still cannot see any videos. I tried to see Bill's this morning, and it locked up and I had to get offline altogether a couple of times. Okay, so I will have to just use the other computer. I hate to do that as that one is being used for a special other project that I really don't want mixed up with any internet junk. (junk being the wee leetle files people love to throw onto your computer)
You have done a beautiful job with your EB's. Very nice winding job on that picture you just posted for the secondary. If no one minds, I will post pics of the coils I have finished. They look a little shabby since they were inground for a while. Unfortunately, I don't have the specs on those...unless I can find it somewhere in my files yet today. I used romex wire on the large one and very thin wires on the second one, as you will see when I post them.
The main photos I would love to have are of the CORRECT super cap, the CORRECT resistor, toroid, REED switch, etc.
Today I started to tear apart an old monitor. Got the back off, and said...."Oh, no way!" when I saw the dangers lurking within. Then tried to put it all back together and of course the back wont go back on. So I might as well just jump in and try to dismantle it. The only reason I was taking it apart is because Bill mentioned he used a toroid off an old monitor. I have not yet seen a toroid in this one, although I am sure it is there. I think we are supposed to discharge something in the back of the monitor before working on it, and I don't know how to do that. So, I will be working on a wing and a prayer. As you can tell, I know only enough about electricity to be dangerous. I have learned a lot more just being here at overunity.
Okay, I will take some pics and get them on here asap.
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I am reposting this here in case it helps folks:
Metals and Soils
Potential Differences of metals
(Soil Galvanic series)
Metal
... Potential
V Cu/CuSO4 electrode
Magnesium (pure) -1.75
Magnesium (alloy) -1.60
Zinc -1.10
Alluminum (alloy) -1.05
Aluminum (pure) -0.8
Steel (clean) -0.50 to -0.80
Steel (rusted) -0.20 to -0.50
Cast Iron -0.50
Lead -0.50
Steel (concrete) -0.20
Copper -0.20
Brass -0.20
Bronze -0.20
Steel (mill scale) -0.20
Cast iron (high silicon) -0.20
Carbon +0.30
Graphite +0.30
Coke +0.30
Notes:
Non-uniform conditions at node surface
This is what I used when I decided to use magnesium and carbon.
Bill
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Here are some pictures of my first EB's and first pancake. Don't laugh! (I heard that!)
It seems I am getting more out of the thin wire (could not even tell you what that was until I can find the old specs I had on it) on the walmart tent stake than on the romex wire eb. Also, the pancake does look promising. Next time I will be more careful, and maybe I can add a core bolt to it, with lots of layers.
First pic is first eb made with romex cu and fe on 1/2 in bolt 5 in long:
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Here is my second eb made with the walmart tent stake with romex cu and fe.
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Here is my first pancake. Brought to you by Victor records, Ave Maria violin solo by Schubert. Note: Could not put bolt through hole so tried to enlarge hole. Wrong move! the record chipped. Next time I will be more careful.
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WOW
Great going!
You seem to have some voltage when they are dry.
Were they ever wet before you took the reading?
The wet reading looks about right, but the dry reading looks too high.
I wonder if you would get something from just those 2 kinds of wires unwound?
Is the battery on your meter fresh this year?
So, now Yes, I believe you will need a nail at least on victor.
Is victor a shellac one sided record?
If it is... shellac is soluble in alcohol.
I do not think you will be dissolving it, but you could soften it,
OR perhaps a layer of shellac would act as glue better than something else??
well done!!
jeanna
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Jeanna, Yes, they had been wet, but they felt dried out today. Must have still had a lot of moisture inside. The outside was def. dry.
On the pancake, I have not figured out what to do with the wires that end up in the middle of the record at the spindle, unless I were to just cover that layer with cotton and then run the inside wires up and to the outside of the record. That was the way I started to do it before I chipped out the huge hole. No problem though...I have a lot of old records waiting to be put to some use. I also do not know just how to hook up all the ends of the wires. For each layer I would have four loose ends. Now it I had say ten layers....holy moly...how would I hook them all together? And do I hook up inside cu to outside fe each layer? (or vice versa) Or, would I connect all cu's together and all fe's together and then have one lead on each side of the disc? And, is there a possibility of hooking up a joule thief to some such thing as this? (in line with it, I guess) Lots of things to think about.
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Right,
the old 2 wires, 4 ends problem times x!
Why not start with victor and pulse a battery on one wire and test with the dmm on the other wire?
The trouble is a dmm is not a good tool for pulsed dc and the back spike that will come off the other wire when it is in its unpulse moment, may not be read. Which means you need a scope, or something like that. (I never had a scope but this year I risked it with a hand held which was 189 at allelectronics.com It is worth saving up for this because all this stuff is turning out to be something that needs that tool.
I suppose you could do what MK1 does and put the ... well cross that bridge later.
We never got very far with the things we tried. I think you are in a good spot to try a few of the things that are interesting to you as you have already done, then move to the next thing. I think there was a natural progression that took us to the joule thief.
And for now, I think it helps to make this point.
We did not stop because we were successful.
We also did not fail, but we are not yet finished.
So, clamber up onto the hay-wagon and catch a free ride home to the barn. (you will recognize that metaphor when you get to it.! it has to do with the back spike.)
jeanna
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99 toroids of B-eer on the wall........
Jeanna:
Well, last night Victor died. The record finally cracked all the way due to stress of handling, I assume.
So I started unwinding the wires to use again. That is when I found out that one of the under layer fe splice connections had come undone. No wonder my readings were always the same whether I connected both layers or only one! So, that tells me that if I were to CAREFULLY re-wire a new Victor (or other such record) using long enough fe so I don't have to splice it....I should have very good readings! That is encouraging and makes me want to get with it on a new one. As I said I have plenty of old records reaching out for some purpose in "life". Maybe if I used one of those really old thick records...???? Not sure about trying to enlarge the spindle hole for a large bolt, though, and a skinnny bolt just large enough in dia. to go into the spindle hole might not be large enough for such a huge winding as this could be. I might very carefully take a rotozip to it and try to enlarge the hole that way. Grind a little off at a time. These are so easy to make and the layers should pile up nicely, but I do have to figure out the center core bolt for the magnetism part of the system. Any ideas on that? Hey, what about re-bar? Would that work? I think it just might fit in the hole, or at least not take too much adjustment. Didn't you use all-thread rod at one time? Do they have rod the size of the spindle hole and will that be enough for the job? How about this: re-bar or all thread to go through the hole, then add some kind of larger, fatter iron pipe to slip over that? Would that still provide the magnetism we need? Sorry for such a long post.
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Hi protonmom,
I am glad to hear you found that the splice didn't work. This is great information.
What if you were to use a miniature version that does not require a splice?
I admit that my style is to make a small version just to get going on something.
But see,
You could still learn about relative voltages and many things. You just might find out how much length your coil needs by extrapolating what you get from what you want to get out of it.
I am not proposing that you must use my style, but it does have certain advantages like you can see inexpensively if you like an idea.
To answer the Q about the metal spike. I do not think any of us know how fat it needs to be.
Only gary used a pancake and his results were as inconclusive as the rest of ours, if I remember right.
I have one NS coil with 360 turns total, so 180+180 made on a 3/8 inch zinc plated bolt from the hardware store. I even used the nut that fits it to secure the bottom. I bet the inside of the record is somewhere around 3/8"
BTW that particular coil is a very good one.
I made it as a non galvanic coil just to eliminate that element. I was getting frustrated because we were dealing with too many unknowns and there were always too many reasons something I did wouldn't work.
I learned a good amount from the experiments I made with it. I used about 2.4v battery for input. (It is an inductor with the 2 metals and it is possible to use it as a joule thief etc...)
When I made it I wound it onto a straw which fit perfectly around the 3/8". So, I can compare iron core with air core. They are different and the iron core works better for what I was doing.
I'd say, the only way to know is to try.
Use a bundle of rebar ties and see what that does??
I understand rebar tiewire works well as a core.
So have fun this saturday,
jeanna
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The hole in a record can be safely expanded by heating the shaft that you are going to use...you may have to use smaller diameter ones, increasing the width until you reach the correct size hole.
The excess 'flash' can then easily be trimmed off afterward.
Hope that helps.
Regards...
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Thanks Cap Z ro and Jeanna. Cap, I did enlarge the last record's spindle hole with heat from an old soldering iron, which was probably way too hot. I like your idea better of gradually enlarging it with heated rod. Today I bought some 1/2 in all thread and some iron rod to slip over it....with washers and nuts. It looks like it will all work fine. I did check everything with a magnet at the store. I also found some wiring that I have never seen before. I am so used to buying Romex with the three wires in it. This wiring is round and has four wires in it, same size as the romex. It is NM 9 bed and bath??? It was .79 per foot instead of the .59 ft for romex. So for a few cents more I get four wires and the round covering is easier to strip than romex. (thinner outter covering) One of the three inside is the ground, so that one is already bare, and the other three I can easily strip with a paring knife as I did before. I might use an old 78 record for the base this time instead of an LP because the material is thicker. Of course, though, that might also make it harder to enlarge the hole. We shall see. Everyone at the store knows I am making SOMETHING but I dont tell them what it is. Keeps them wondering. Oh yeah....I also was able to get a huge bagful of spent one time cameras again. Yippee! Christmas! I could not believe my luck! In one store I had just missed them before they got recycled. I almost did not go to the next store to ask. Sure am glad I did. With any luck, one of these days maybe I will be able to light an LED and for me that is what it is all about...Just to be able to do it. I know I might never achieve much, and I might be spending a lot of money for nothing...but I am sure having fun learning. I almost even understand all of you now when you talk about the different components you are working with. I might never be as smart as all of you, but I am gaining knowledge bit by bit as I read each forum and watch all of you do such great things! And for that, I thank each and every one of you.
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You might want to try the tapered point of a hot glue gun..if done alternately on both sides it should get you to the point where the rod you will be using can be heated for the final expansion.
Regards...
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The NM stands for non-metallic sheathing. Romex itself is a brand name and slightly more expensive than the other brand names. It is the most prevalent though.
This wiring is round and has four wires in it, same size as the romex
This is called 3 wire by electricians. If it has 3 wires its called 2 wire. The reason its called that is because the ground wire is not included as its not a "hot" wire. The white or neutral and the colored wires are "hot" wires. The "4" wire you mentioned has 2 colored wires and a white wire plus the ground. You can use this for 2 separate 120 volt circuits single phase,or one 240v circuit single phase. If the white or neutral wire is not needed for the 240v device then its just left off. An example would be a 240 volt stove. It needs the neutral because of lights and timers and taps into one hot wire making it 120v.
If your going to do a lot of records,and even if your not, A great tool for making holes in metal or plastic is a Unibit. They come in different sizes. The larger the more expensive. They are stepped so you can tell when to stop drilling.
http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/59001.html
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Hi everybody,
I just posted the measurements taken from the basic Cu+Zn- probes over in the datalogging page.
I am not going to continue to post NS coils info over there since the point of that thread is to be a clean datalogging thread. ;D
So, I will post the scope shots I dearly wanted to post last year in this thread.
There is only 1 NS coil in this measurement, and it is on the south side of the long line.
The line is 50 feet from Carbon rod to Zinc nail (the meter is half way at 25 feet)... then 5 more feet away from the zinc nail is the NS coil.
For these measurements,
The 10's which were sticking out I twirled into a spiral antenna. - why not?
I twisted the other 2 wires together..call them the 5,6 = twisted. and attached them to a 5 foot long wire which was then connected to the zinc nail. It is 5 feet long but the NS coil is right there next to the zinc nail
Here are some pix.
This coil makes a big difference.
The plain Cu+Zn- probes had a 10mV difference and this baby has a 60mV difference!!!!!
jeanna
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Hi all,
I have a few more pix. I can;t understand why some are soo big and some are normal. I take them with the camera at the same resolution. I guess if I take a close up and do not crop it away it is enormous. Well, my apologies.
This additional NS coil on the south end of the C+,Zn- probes again way outperforms the plain Cu+.Zn- pair, which I posted just now next door on the dataloging thread.
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Wow, very nice!! Just look at those jagged spikes and all of the uneven ups and downs. Certainly not a normal waveform. (at least not like the ones they show in my electronics books) Funny how some of these waves from the earth resemble a JT or Bedini circuit's waveform. Excellent work Jeanna.
Bill
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Thank you Bill,
I'd love to see what your results would be.
I am not even using a secondary.
I just twisted one pair of ends together... the ones coming from the same end even. (I mean NOT like a JT)
That is connected to my zinc nail via a 5 foot wire, but only buried 6 inches away. I mention this because it might add to the effect having all that wire.
I measure at the usual place where there is a length of wire between the C rods and the Zn nail.
I bet it is even better in KY.
You have powerful earth currents there, and I would love to see this from your scope.
I hope you have time and a NS coil.
jeanna
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@Jeanna
I have no idea what those pics show, but they sure look nice! I wish I had an oscilloscope and knew how to use it. Will have to put that on my future "buy list".
@all newbies
If you have gotten this far without making any of the devices we have talked about, I commend you. For me it was too hard to wait - I had to just jump in. I should have read it all first so that I could see if the devices worked or not. When you see someone making something that looks promising - keep reading. Maybe a few pages on there will be some post about how it failed.
I would like to make a couple suggestions: Read ALL the forum. Every word is important. Not only this forum but also go read Joe's Stubblefield forum. Again, read every word. I had to read them twice and I still have not absorbed it all. Also, if anyone is thinking about using old records to wind wire on to make a "pancake"...don't do it. I have ruined too many records trying. They are brittle and will break. I figured if they break so easily in my hands, then once they are buried in the ground, they will also not stand up due to the pressure of the earth on top of them and to temperature changes. I am going back to the standard NS EB wound on an iron core. Maybe later I will find a new way of making pancakes because they did look like they might give very nice results.
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Jeanna:
I still have my original Stubblefield coil wound on the 12" iron spike. This is the smaller one, I fried my larger one when I added some vinegar to the mix outside.....really great results for a while then....poof! Nothing.
I am not clear on how you want me to hook it to my ERR. Should I bury it and try series? Or are you saying just add it to the circuit as a booster of sorts? (above ground)
Bill
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I still have my original Stubblefield coil wound on the 12" iron spike. ...
That will do just fine
I am not clear on how you want me to hook it to my ERR. Should I bury it and try series? Or are you saying just add it to the circuit as a booster of sorts? (above ground)
Well, I don't know either, but for starters twist the 2 wires we called 5,6 one of each metal from the same end.
Connect that to a wire or an aligator clip at least. and connect it to where the original EER wire meets the mag block.
I hammered the stake into the ground but I did not dig a hole.
Mine is on the south side and my base metal was a neg side metal being covered in zinc.
I think I remember that is how yours were too. (?)
I am late in responding because I have just added one more to the north side.
I also wet it and need to wait for the ground to settle down. At first the volts took a .2v dive. :P
I will post a pic if I can find one.
If not I will take one and post it if you are still not sure.
OK?
yeay!
jeanna
edit:
Here is a drawing I made yesterday to help.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg194676#msg194676 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg194676#msg194676)
I found it.
I will leave that link for the details on it.
Here is a repeat of that pic.
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Jeanna:
Thanks for the explanation and the drawing.
I just got back in from a quick series of experiments. I tried the old small NS coil in every configuration possible (except buried totally) and in every case, my volts went down.
I tied the 5,6 together
I tied the 10's together
I tried this the 5,6 open
I tried the 5,6 tied together and the 10's open
And every other possibility and variation I could come up with.
My starting volts from my EER was 1.95.
The results varied with the above combinations as far as how low the volts dropped (I didn't record as they were all lower) but they ranged from 1.2 volts down to .12 volts. In each case, as soon as the NS coil was removed from the circuit, it went back up to 1.95 volts.
I checked the NS coil for shorts, there are none anywhere. The output from the NS coil was a low .6 volts but it still had 6 mA's. I also checked amps while doing the above tests thinking that maybe the volts would drop a bit but I would increase mA's.....no dice...they went down as well.
I did come up with another experiment I want to try and that involves my 1 magnet no bearing Bedini motor and the EER. I never tried before to feed the output spikes back to the EER. Now these would be high voltage spikes at a pretty high frequency. I wonder if this would resonate my system even a little bit sort of like a poor (ignorant) man's Kapanadze circuit?
I will try that another day but it is something to ponder about.
My coil showed some signs of rust from the iron wire which is why I checked it for shorts in the beginning. My 5,6 wires and the 10's are on opposite ends of this coil and it is not helpful when burying it. My other coil I wound so the wires all ended up on the same end, but that coil is gone. I will have to back and check my posts but I seem to recall getting much better volts and mA's from even this little one than what I was seeing today.
I am glad it is working for you Jeanna but I could not improve anything with it over here.
Bill
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My apologies, Bill, I did not make some things very clear.
I am using the scope, not the dmm.
My volts were down in the beginning, too.
Do you remember the day you reminded me that your volts went down but your amps went up? It was the next day that I took the same wire disconnected from the dome and connected the NS#9.
On that day I neglected to check the volts from just the extra wire before I added the NS#9.
I had been asking about ignition coils etc, so I connected the twisted 5,6 and woah looked at those spikes.
So, I must have not made clear this part that there are a couple of things that are different from what we used to do.
1- the scope is the meter I am using.
2- the 5,6 are connected which I guess are the wires at the bottom of your coil...
Do you only have one row on this one?
I am connecting the scope not to the NS#9 itself, but to the place in the middle of the EER it is at the end of.
I wonder if these are what you did too?
I think the back spikes are exactly what I am seeing.
I hope you can get back spikes from your NS coil and not just your bedini setup (although that is cool too)
jeanna
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@anyone:
Question about winding the NS EB. I read that someone (Jeanna??) thought that Stubblefield wanted each succeeding layer of coil to be exactly on top of the first, meaning cu exactly on top of cu, and fe exactly on top of fe. At least this is what I understood you to say. Please tell me how that can be accomplished. Tonight as I was winding my new coil, I really tried to make all the rows straight and even. But no matter what, I could not get the upwind to lay exactly on top of the previous column. Going back up from the bottom the cu ends up on top of the fe and fe on top of the cu. What is the trick? Wouldn't you have to reverse them in order to get them to lay on top of the correct wire? Or, is that what I am doing wrong? I coil down and then coil right back up always going in the same direction. If you have to reverse direction, you will have to bend the wires at each new start of coil. Or you would have to start with a clean wire for each coil, leaving you with a ton of loose ends. Could you provide me with a drawing showing how you are winding? If you have already posted one somewhere, please direct me to it.
One more thing... Does it make any difference in the direction you start a coil? Does it have to be clockwise or counterclockwise...and why.
Sorry for the long post and the interruption. Thanks
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@Jeanna
I hate to be a pest, but could you do something for me? When you post those scope photos, could you please explain to those of us who don't understand them, just what they show? I would sure appreciate it. Thanks.
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@anyone:
Question about winding the NS EB. I read that someone (Jeanna??) thought that Stubblefield wanted each succeeding layer of coil to be exactly on top of the first, meaning cu exactly on top of cu, and fe exactly on top of fe.
That was just an idea.
The way I did it was at the bottom when it was time to go back to the toward the top again, I lifted up both wires and placed them on top of the colors they matched. then they were in the right place.
I do not think I was ever successful doing that, because long before I got to the top again they had slipped off.
I was grabbing at straws at that point.
[One of the interesting things about this thing is that it makes what is known as a caduceus coil. One with 2 strands. Koen started a thread about the caduceus as an ancient item of interest during the time I was winding these coils . He put up some pictures and I immediately saw that this is what NS had made. Right down to the 2 strands of DNA. The utter universality of it convinced me then that this NS coil has merit and I will work at figuring it out!]
One more thing... Does it make any difference in the direction you start a coil? Does it have to be clockwise or counterclockwise...and why.
No, it doesn't.
That delightful foray into the ancient past helped me know this because I needed to explain to Koen how if you continue to wind the same direction around the core, but the progress of the turns changes direction this is the same thing as if you were winding it in the other direction. So one way it is cw going back it is ccw. or the reverse.
I have since learned/ discovered/realized that it is just because the earth currents are constantly moving and changing that the coil works. It works no matter which way it is coiled.
About the scope...
It is a measure of pulses over time. So, time is as important an element as the height of the pulses.
All you see in a scope reading is the height of the pulse and the time it takes.
On my scope the very top line says the length of time in one division. On my scope one division of time seems to be one pixel or dot going left to right. So, it is showing the resolution of the wave.
I can see the whole wave but I can get closer and closer. The thing reminds me of fractals, how so many times I get closer in to the wave and I see a repetition of what I saw earlier from a greater distance. That alone can add confusion.
But if it were not for the digital read-out, I would have not seen that. I am not sure how it is on Bills regular type scope. I hope that tells you a little.
jeanna
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Jeanna:
It is pretty much the same on my scope...as far as I know with what little I know about it. The only way I can read frequency though is to determine it from the scope reading and the position all of my dials are in at that time...it does not give a a direct read out. That is why I have not posted anything about my freqs. yet as I could be off several orders of magnitude, ha ha.
Bill
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So Bill, I have seen people on youtube literally counting the squares to say what the voltage or frequency is. Is that what you need to do?
I have a couple of pix which I would like to show tonight to document what happened today.
I added another NS coil into the ground near the Carbon rods at the north of my EER. There has been one near the south for a couple of days.
The initial reading was very low and it seemed that the new coil was taking the voltage down. It may be, however, I got some good pix just as it was getting dark.
I want to make some comparisons and I will try to do them in a way that will make it easy to compare the effects of the 2 coils.
I think these are comparable resolutions. I cannot see the later ones so well. first 2 are with NS#9
Second 2 are with NS#9 and NS#10
jeanna
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@Bill
Could you direct me to your post where you told how you hooked up your coil when you first were able to light an LED? I missed that somewhere along the line. No matter what I do, I have yet to get an LED to light. Maybe I am using the wrong LED size? I have tried both blue and white and no go. Both with resistors. What am I missing? Thanks ( I know the led's are good because they light just fine with a 6 volt battery)
@all
Here is my newest NS EB # 3. I wetted it down yesterday and then let it drain overnight. This one looks promising, more so than my first baby. (I have now replaced first baby back in the ground and will show readings asap) Are the readings shown on this new coil about right... or not???
Can anyone tell me whether or not the wire you use to keep animals in the yard (or out of the yard) is okay to use for the secondary winding? (Edit: I think it is called invisible fence elec wire, or something like that.) I have a lot of it, and hate to throw it out. Would like to use it for this if it will work.
Edit Note: On the third photo, the neg lead is hooked up to the bottom end. Just wanted to see what would happen. However, the reading was the same when I hooked up to the fe top lead.
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Jeanna, have you tried to hook up those readings to a music program, or to a light program like the one Bill has? (I THINK it was Bill who had that program anyway) I would like to hear the earth "singing" with your scope readings. Is it possible to do such a thing?
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@Bill
When you made the mag block device as shown in this photo, how did you drill the holes without the blocks catching on fire? Do I use water on them, or just drill very slowly or what? I have the blocks ready and waiting to put together, and unless you have come up with a better plan, I think I should make one just like the one you made. But how do I drill the holes without destroying them? Thanks
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This is my first NS EB which I had inground, pulled it up, let it rest a bit, and it is now re-buried in a new spot. Don't know if these readings are good or not. Just thought I would share. In ground now since last night. Hopefully readings will increase as time goes by. I will later also re-bury number 2 coil close to this one.
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Jeanna, have you tried to hook up those readings to a music program,..
What a cool idea!
I was just thinking how much some of the waves look like waveforms of music. If they didn't repeat the same all day, I would say I was hitting a radio station. These are in radio frequency so it is a concern.
It would certainly be possible. Hmmmm
Remember yesterday I said the waveforms are like fractals? So, playing these waveforms on a lower harmonic would make perfect sense and be musically similar.
Anything lower than 20Khz is audible.
There is no end to good ideas!
thank you,
jeanna
BTW I am having trouble seeing your results. I did a composite pic once, and it was too hard for others to see. It is OK to have tiny pix, but would you please type in the numbers?
Your NS coil looks like the real thing!
Remember, we were never able to do much with them and we knew the invention was about something we were not doing.
I wish I had made 2 that were alike. I have 2 set apart as I saw he did, but, they are different because all mine are different.
Remember he said it was the secondary that did the work, not the copper and iron that gets all the attention in the patent.
j
edit
Bill lit a led from his probes-in-the-ground-EB, not his Stubblefield coil.
The galvanic difference between iron and copper, even zinc and copper is not enough to light a led.
NS used soft iron which is like black annealed iron wire... the kind that rusts. He did not use zinc. I have tried both and never got more than a galvanic reading... until now. It is the scope that has shown me what this coil is up to... more coming :D
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Yes, Jeanna, I will post single photos from now on if that helps any. I was trying to save space so as not to hog the forum.
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Can anyone tell me whether or not the wire you use to keep animals in the yard (or out of the yard) is okay to use for the secondary winding? (Edit: I think it is called invisible fence elec wire, or something like that.) I have a lot of it, and hate to throw it out. Would like to use it for this if it will work.
Hi protonmom,
I have no idea what that fencing is.
The wire you need when you are making a secondary is called magnet or mag wire.
It is varnished with multiple layers. The covering is not strong so you need to be careful not to scratch it in the body of the secondary, but it is very thin and allows you to wind the wire closer together than if you used a plastic covered wire. But you must sand off the ends of the wire once you have finished winding.
I suspect the stuff they sell for fence wire is either not coated at all or thickly coated. But, I have never seen it.
Radio shack sells this in a package of 3 spools. 3 different thicknesses and 3 lengths.
Hazens1 gave us the name of a place that sells the wire at a much longer lengths and many gauges. here it is:
http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.php (http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.php)
the specific page is:
http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=magnet+wire (http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=magnet+wire)
Newbie wire. Nice man runs a small garage shop.
I think that is the best way to go because you will not have a long enough secondary with the RadioShack wire.
The one in the pic I posted used the whole roll of 30awg wire and it was about 1/3 the amount I needed. Part of the problem is the thickness of the primary once you have finished.
My apologies for not answering this. I missed it before.
jeanna
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Electronic fence wire is plastic coated for underground installations. Above ground electric fence wire is bare.
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Thank you Iota,
Yes, Iota...it is a plastic coated very thin wire.
Thank you Jeanna,
No wonder my secondary never worked before. So, it is MAGNET wire on the secondary. Okay, then! We don't have a radio shack close by here, but I do most of my ordering online anyway. Guess I might as well pitch out that fencing wire then.
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Never throw any usable material away PM...you never know, it may be useful to a new idea which stems from your work.
Regards...
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Thank you Iota,
Yes, Iota...it is a plastic coated very thin wire.
Thank you Jeanna,
No wonder my secondary never worked before. ...
Guess I might as well pitch out that fencing wire then.
Well if it is plastic coated very thin wire, you could use it for the secondary.
I think it was cap-z-ro on another thread?? that said he gets better results with iron rather than copper wire when it is used for inductors. well that is what this secondary is.
You may be way ahead of the game. I might be asking you to source that wire for me soon!
jeanna
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I would add that, like magnet wire, you need to burn/strip the insulation on the ends before making connections or testing with a meter probe. You probably already know this....but I didn't in the early days and...well...I do now, ha ha.
Bill
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Yeah, I always bare the ends, and sometimes I add connectors. If that fence wire works, that would be nice since I have so much of it. I believe Walmart sells the stuff. I got mine from a thrift store, which is why it didn't have the box, etc.
Bill, I just looked at your profile and checked under your attachments going back from page 43 and forward. I think your EB (without caps etc.,) might be around page 40, (of attachments) - not sure though. Everytime I try to look at it from your profile, my computer locks up and I have to re-start. Does Dec 2007 sound about right? A lot of the attachments said EB with cu, or rods etc. Do you think you could remember a name you gave it? I did find the video but I believe that was with caps. Well, we shall find it eventually. Maybe if I could just see how you put it in the ground, that would help. Was this one on Meridian, and in alignment with North/South, or in alignment with any ground probes?
A good night's sleep and then will search anew.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY&feature=channel)
I just put it on the other thread. here it is too. All Bill's early videos.
jeanna
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Okay, here is a photo of the wire in question. I have the bare end taped down next to some solder for size comparison. The wire is copper stranded. It looks to be ALMOST the size of the solder wire, but not quite. This is what I would hope to use for the secondary. What do you think?
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umm I don't know if you can use stranded wire for a secondary, but maybe you can. Gadget says he splices his together all the time and the instrux always say you mustn't do that!
You could try it.
jeanna
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Okay that red fence wire is OUT! Maybe I will use it to "keep pets in" like it is meant to be used. Or, who knows? Maybe I will invent something that requires red fence wire in order to save the world.
I guess it is time to buy some mag wire per instructions. (now that I know what mag wire is)
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Electronic fence wire is plastic coated for underground installations. Above ground electric fence wire is bare.
IotaYodi is right. My Dad retired to a ranch in Oklahoma and had an electric fence to keep his cattle from wandering off. It was a commercial HV unit with insulated fencepost standoffs on bare wire. Better to shock the animals with. They think twice the next time.
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Dont ever piss on an electric fence. I did when I was a kid and it was a whole new revelation! :o
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Hi everybody,
I made this video mostly for protonmom who wanted some explanation to help understand my scope shots.
I am showing the EB with 2 stubblefield coils appended to each end. Like this:
NS#10 north_____Carbon probe_____Meter_____Zinc probe_____NS#9 south.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE)
Have a look!
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Very nice video!! You always explain things really well in your videos. I still can't believe the freqs. you are getting over there. I need to work on figuring out what my set-up here is operating at.
Bill
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I still can't believe the freqs. you are getting over there. I need to work on figuring out what my set-up here is operating at.
Bill
Thank you, Bill.
I am sure you are getting the same frequencies.
I actually think it is easier for me in a way, because I push a button and the resolution changes.
You have that division screen and I think you must count the squares?
I took me a while to figure this thing out and I'm not finished, but that digital read-out makes it really easy for me to know if I am seeing hz or khz, or Mhz.
I just needed know I had to move the markers! :D
Now, I need to figure out why imovie would not let me include today's video of the simple earth probes... before I make the 2 tier video.
jeanna
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Thanks Jeanna, but remember what I said? I can see photos if and when they are posted to the forum, (as long as they are not too huge...but cannot see any graphics or pdfs that I have to download. And I cannot see any videos at all. But that is okay...I can go to the library to view them one of these days. I do appreciate you taking the time to make them. I will get to the library as soon as I can.
Now, guess what I have been doing all day? I had to completely tear apart my new coil and start over. There was a short, and I still don't know just where. But it is a good thing I had to tear it apart to fix that, because I found out that Stubblefield was right when he said no cover on the iron wire. I had used that interfacing, and boy what a mess that was trying to re-do those wires. I ended up having to use all new iron wire. And I had already run out of the interfacing, so I had to leave the wire bare on this re-make. The good thing about that is, my readings were higher already at only the first wind layer. I am going slow and winding as tight as I can and keeping the rows as even as possible. I sure hope it turns out okay this time. I would like to see some evidence that I actually made the thing work for a change.
Thanks again for making the videos.
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protonmom:
In the 2 coils I built, both of my wires were bare. According to what we could determine from the patent back then, it seemed important that the wires be insulated from each other, and the core. The way I wound mine using the cotton string in between and the cotton layers under and over top of each layer accomplished this.
So yes, I agree that if you insulate from the core, and just insulate the copper wire (or the iron wire) so there are no shorts, it should be fine. As long as moisture can get through all of the layers and to all of the wires it should work.
This is what I remember about it.
Bill
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It just hit me after reading your post Bill...I wonder how the coil would conduct if was moistened with oil before planting.
As a matter of fact I would say crude oil would likely be best as it is of the earth.
Just a thought.
Regards...
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Cap-Z-ro said:
It just hit me after reading your post Bill...I wonder how the coil would conduct if was moistened with oil before planting. As a matter of fact I would say crude oil would likely be best as it is of the earth. Just a thought. Regards...
@Cap-Z-ro & all others,
Old style transformer cooling dielectric oil was often made of some kind of "mineral oil" or sulfur hexafluoride(SF6).
Adding oil may or may not improve efficiency of a Stubblefield system? If it was originally used as an insulating dielectric? Does someone have a definite answer one way or the other?
--Lee
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When creating a regular earth battery (not a Stubblefield coil) is it best to use solid rods or tubes (pipes)?
Thank you,
DonL
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When creating a regular earth battery (not a Stubblefield coil) is it best to use solid rods or tubes (pipes)?
Thank you,
DonL
I used solid wires of different materials. Creative Science(fuellesspower), I believe(?), used rods in at least one of their earth battery designs.
It could be either way.
--Lee
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Cap-Z-ro said:@Cap-Z-ro & all others,
Old style transformer cooling dielectric oil was often made of some kind of "mineral oil" or sulfur hexafluoride(SF6).
Adding oil may or may not improve efficiency of a Stubblefield system? If it was originally used as an insulating dielectric? Does someone have a definite answer one way or the other?
--Lee
The patent is the authority here.
It is water. The ground must be moist.
There needs to be a small galvanic "current"" going on.
I imagine the patent is offered on one of the first pages of this thread.
US pat. #600,457
"a novel voltaic couple... while at the same time producing in operation a magnetic field...inductive effect to induce a current in a solenoid or secondary coil." Page 1 lines 38-48.
It is a very interesting patent to study.
jeanna
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It just hit me after reading your post Bill...I wonder how the coil would conduct if was moistened with oil before planting.
As a matter of fact I would say crude oil would likely be best as it is of the earth.
Just a thought.
Regards...
Cap:
I don't know. On the one hand, the oil would displace the water which may be bad. On the other, if the oil works as well, or better than the water, it would be "moist" a lot longer. All I can say is, give it a try. That is the only way to know for sure. It is a good thought. Water does not conduct and is a dielectric, just like the oil used in the transformers. Now, ground water, with all of its impurities, is a decent conductor. I have no idea of which way it would go.
Bill
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When creating a regular earth battery (not a Stubblefield coil) is it best to use solid rods or tubes (pipes)?
Thank you,
DonL
Except for in the very beginning of my experiments, I have used solid materials. I have seen that the solid materials, having more mass and surface area, delivers more amps. (mA's actually) So, my vote is for the solid stuff. I hope this helps.
Bill
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Hi protonmom and all,
I have also started to wind a NS coil.
Using enamel coated copper wire (= magnet wire) and galvanized iron wire. Plastic sheeting as insulation between individual layers of the coil.
After having wound ca. 6 full layers i tested it (with the view of adding more additional layers later).
When I put it into water the readings were not encouraging (compared to my experiments with similar size rod-in tube cells).
It seemed clear to me that I had not done it right.
Kind of desperate I soldered a non-insulated piece of copper wire to the open copper end (10) of the NS coil and let this hang into water as well.
Voltage and current readings went up noticeably.
So I conclude that when Stubblefield wrote of "insulated copper wire" he was really talking about the 'cloth insulated wire' of the time, i.e.
I think the copper has to also be in contact with the moisture/water. So the wire is not allowed to be properly insulated in the modern sense of the word.
Again: The more bare/unprotected copper surface there is, the higher will be the current and voltage reading, according to my findings.
Will have to redo the coil with bare copper wire, employing just some spacing material to prevent contact between the copper and iron (don't know how to do it yet).
It will be interesting to hear about new findings of protonmom.
PS: I don't think the better readings with bare copper are due to galvanic effects or electro chemical degradation of the metals. There is something else happening.
Water molecules are dipoles. They oscillate, responding to the earth magnetic field and the NMR oscillations of the metals, making an ideal carrier for the resulting fields (field changes) emanating from the two dissimilar metals ....
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Except for in the very beginning of my experiments, I have used solid materials. I have seen that the solid materials, having more mass and surface area, delivers more amps. (mA's actually) So, my vote is for the solid stuff. I hope this helps.
Bill
Thanks Bill
@All
Anyone using a magnesium rod, where did you buy it?
I've only found 1 online supplier and they only have 12" magnesium rods.
DonL
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@Oscar
"Will have to redo the coil with bare copper wire, employing just some spacing material to prevent contact between the copper and iron (don't know how to do it yet)."
I've read where people wind a spacing material along side the copper and iron wire. Something like heavy string or plastic line from a weed eater. They then remove the spacing material after the copper and iron wires are secure.
copper wire / plastic line / iron wire / plastic line
This will evenly space the copper wire and iron wires from eachother.
Of course it's not easy to wind 4 items at the same time but if it was easy then everyone would have one. :)
I'm wondering, if you use string or small rope that is the same diameter as your copper and iron wires, if you could leave it wound because it will hold moisture keeping the copper and iron wire wet?
Has anyone tried to leave a spacing material that holds moisture in place?
DonL
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jeanna said:
The patent is the authority here.
It is water. The ground must be moist.
There needs to be a small galvanic "current"" going on.
I imagine the patent is offered on one of the first pages of this thread.
US pat. #600,457
"a novel voltaic couple... while at the same time producing in operation a magnetic field...inductive effect to induce a current in a solenoid or secondary coil." Page 1 lines 38-48.
It is a very interesting patent to study.
jeanna
Very good, jeanna. You're right. The Creative Science plan I had strongly suggested to soak the ground with water around each wire for greater current output. Dry ground would get you less, even nothing. They said water it regularly; every two weeks at least.
Here's the patent, #600,457:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Q19NAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:600457&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=
--Lee
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I have seen that the solid materials, having more mass and surface area, delivers more amps. (mA's actually)
With the same diameter the tube would have more surface area. You would think you would have more potential with a tube which you may. But!
Electrons basically flow on the surface. If you increase the current they go deeper into the wire causing resistance which heats up the wire. Thats already a fact. In my mind its always been about surface area to increase the potential. What I overlooked is the electromagnetic field itself. In a rod it would be more focused and could make the energy flow more efficient. Even using pointed rods may be better. The higher potential materiel's is a plus as well as mass to get more out.
The big question for me is why no one has duplicated Stubblefield to the extent he did. It all leads back to him and the existing environment and conditions he was in. Its really peculiar how he died.
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@Oscar
"Will have to redo the coil with bare copper wire, employing just some spacing material to prevent contact between the copper and iron (don't know how to do it yet)."
I've read where people wind a spacing material along side the copper and iron wire. Something like heavy string or plastic line from a weed eater. They then remove the spacing material after the copper and iron wires are secure.
copper wire / plastic line / iron wire / plastic line
This will evenly space the copper wire and iron wires from eachother.
Of course it's not easy to wind 4 items at the same time but if it was easy then everyone would have one. :)
I'm wondering, if you use string or small rope that is the same diameter as your copper and iron wires, if you could leave it wound because it will hold moisture keeping the copper and iron wire wet?
Has anyone tried to leave a spacing material that holds moisture in place?
DonL
That is exactly the way I wound my coils. I used cotton string the same dia. as my iron and copper (bare) wires and left it in place as I believed it would hold the moisture just like the old cotton insulated wire of the old days would have.
I wound the wires bifilar first, and when each layer was done, I then wound the string in between the wires which requires two passes per layer. I never wound more than 2 layers tho so at 12" long x 2 layers, it is a small coil.
Bill
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jeanna said:Very good, jeanna. You're right. The Creative Science plan I had strongly suggested to soak the ground with water around each wire for greater current output. Dry ground would get you less, even nothing. They said water it regularly; every two weeks at least.
Here's the patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Q19NAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:600457&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is= (http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Q19NAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:600457&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=)
--Lee
I have always had higher mA's and volts in very dry soil. When it rains, everything goes down, the dryer the soil, the better my numbers. With 100 degrees here last summer for 2 weeks, my numbers were the best yet. Now, when I first "plant" a new cell or set of electrodes, I water the area around it liberally to help it connect to the surrounding soil. After that, no more water for my set-ups.
Bill
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The big question for me is why no one has duplicated Stubblefield to the extent he did. It all leads back to him and the existing environment and conditions he was in. Its really peculiar how he died.
I agree with what you say and I want to add he also used materials available at that time, like the cotton insulated wire which we can't seem to find today. (It is available at high end stereo shops BUT it has a layer of teflon or plastic making it no good for this application) I believe if we had that same wire now, a lot of us would have much larger (much easier to wind) coils with decent outputs.
Bill
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Oscar:
You are correct about not being able to use plastic anywhere on the coil. We discovered this the hard way in our beginning experiments. Fortunately for me, some other folks figured this out before I could gather materials to wind a coil. Some even tried plastic mesh material to allow some moisture to pass and still no go. I think it is important for the cotton (Jeanna used silk with success too) to not only allow the passing of moisture, but to hold it in place over time.
Bill
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With the same diameter the tube would have more surface area...
Even using pointed rods may be better. The higher potential materiel's is a plus as well as mass to get more out.
good point! :o
The big question for me is why no one has duplicated Stubblefield to the extent he did. It all leads back to him and the existing environment and conditions he was in.
I personally stopped last year because I had reached my limit of understanding.
I had to absorb the information I had gained from my experiments. But I needed the joule thief and its thread and all the helpful people to start to understand what I had learned so I could move forward.
It is not at all surprising to me that we never got very far.
I do believe it is all right there. I do not believe he used an undisclosed switch. I do think we have lost information that was so commonly understood that no one ever mentioned it.
This idea struck me when I read tesla's lecture to the EE's in london in 1892. He referred to a "common inductor coil"
What is that?
That is the kind of thing we have lost. It was the basis for our electrical system, yet we do not remember what they did with an inductor or other things like it that were so common.
===
I have made most of my coils with 360 turns total. That is 180 turns for each wire.
The silk did make a better coil.
I suspect that it is because it is sooo thin that the wires can be very close together as oscar has explained so well.
====
The key to the wetness issue is in the word moist.
I used to live on the east coast.
The soil there never really dried out. I think KY is similar. There is a little rain every 10 days at least. Often once every 5 days. And there is moist snow all winter. The moisture there goes very deep.
Here in the west coast the climate is called mediterranean. I quickly learned that this has nothing to do with warm mediterranean temperatures, but only to do with the seasonal nature of the rain.
There is a rainy season and dry season.
I must water once a day or 2 in the summer because in the summer there is no rain for 3 months.
Just try to imagine no rain for that long and what that does to your soil... to your earth battery.
Stubblefield said the ground needed to be moist. If you had a rain recently and your ground is moist, then do not add water.
Does this make sense?
I do believe we are adding to the progress from last year. I would not be here to repeat what I did last year.
thank you all,
jeanna
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Kentucky has been under drought conditions for the past 4 years, no watering the lawn, washing the car etc. It usually get's like the dust bowl here in the summer with temps over 100 degrees on a regular basis (104-110 with the heat index) It is just hot and stays hot. Trust me, I know as I work in my van with no ac for many hours at a time.
Now this summer has be a mild one, very mild. We just recorded the coldest July ever since they have been keeping records. (Thank God) And, we have had plenty of rainfall too. Also many more storms producing tornadoes. May garden area is totally dry and I have to water my upside down bucket plated vegetables 3 times/day otherwise they start to wilt. This water has nothing to do with my electrodes as they are in the ground and my plants are not.
I think we are talking of two different things here...for the coils...yes moisture is needed for them to work, but from my experience with the electrodes I am using, the dryer the better. Of course I am sure that soil composition comes into play (we have a lot of clay here) as well as mineralization. So, I am not surprised if this is not the same for everyone. ***EDIT*** Also, my 5 lb. magnesium block is encased in a bag filled with potash so, whatever moisture there is/was is held in that bag for a long time. So, I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea here. If adding water to your set-up increases the output, do it. If letting it dry out completely helps it, do that. Whatever it takes to get the best output should be done.
Bill
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I will let my probes go dry. I see there is a 20% chance of rain on thursday. After that, if it does rain, I will clock the dryness effect. I will surely be able to clock the wetness effect in another 2-3 months :D
There is something else we have not really dealt with, but it probably won't make a difference if we talk about it. That is the amount of iron in our soil.
Bill, since you have always had a higher reading than I have with not exactly comparable probes ;) , I am wondering if you know the iron content in your soil?
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Good question. I don't know. I think I can call my local county extension office and find out though. This is a great thought and might make a lot of difference. I used to be a Geology major in college and I know what high iron content soil looks like. (It looks red) This is not that. But as to what levels there are is a very good question. I know we have a lot of clay as the soil does not hold water very well at all. Our main bedrock in this area is limestone hence all of the caves in this region, including Mammoth Cave (20 miles from me) which is the longest cave in the world.
I will do some research on this and post my findings.
Bill
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Pirate88179 said:
I have always had higher mA's and volts in very dry soil. When it rains, everything goes down, the dryer the soil, the better my numbers.
Okay, that something I hadn't heard. It seems we're thinking of different types of systems. I was using heavy wires shoved into the ground about 6-10". What are you doing?
--Lee
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Pirate88179 said:Okay, that something I hadn't heard. It seems we're thinking of different types of systems. I was using heavy wires shoved into the ground about 6-10". What are you doing?
--Lee
I am using, on the north meridian, two 1" X 9" long carbon rods. On the south meridian, I have a 5 pound block of magnesium wrapped in a bag full of potash. The angle of the depth of the mag. block and the bottom of my rods via the distance separating them (about 15 feet) matches the magnetic dip angle for my area.
I can light 400 leds and also have lit a 48" tube and have run a Bedini motor from this set-up.
I hope this helps. For more info, see my Youtube channel. (Pirate88179, the home of Pirate Labs)
Bill
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I am using, on the north meridian, two 1" X 9" long carbon rods. On the south meridian, I have a 5 pound block of magnesium wrapped in a bag full of potash. The angle of the depth of the mag. block and the bottom of my rods via the distance separating them (about 15 feet) matches the magnetic dip angle for my area.
Bill
Why 2 carbon rods? Are they together or separated and each connected to the same Magnesium block (which is what I was thinking of trying)?
How do I determine the magnetic dip in my area (upstate NY)?
Thank you,
DonL
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Here is a calculator that will tell you all sorts of info for your area including magnetic deviation and dip angle:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp
I used 2 carbon rods because when it was one carbon rod (18" long) I could not get it deep enough in the ground to use most of the surface area so I cut it. I did various tests and found that keeping the second rod along the same meridian alignment (not magnetic north/south) separated by about 5 feet increased my output. I have a single 5 pound block of mag. on the south end.
There is much more detailed info about my set-up discussed here on this topic and on Localjoe's topic.
Bill
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How are your 3 wired?
2 carbon rods wired together for the positive and 1 wire from the magnesium block for the negative?
Also I can't get a Frequency reading on my earth battery. Is this normal? The frequency keeps jumping around on my meter.
I verified my meter is OK by checking MAINS frequency at 60 Hz.
DonL
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How are your 3 wired?
2 carbon rods wired together for the positive and 1 wire from the magnesium block for the negative?
Also I can't get a Frequency reading on my earth battery. Is this normal? The frequency keeps jumping around on my meter.
I verified my meter is OK by checking MAINS frequency at 60 Hz.
DonL
Don:
Here is an older video that I will re-post here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4gRDwPqSz4
In this video I am only lighting 4 10mm superbright leds but you can see how it is wired up. The two carbon rods are tied together with test leads and the load is wired from them on the + side to the - on the load to my magnesium block. Check out some of my other videos, especially the newer ones, to see what I am able to light up and run now.
As far as your meter not reading the freq. I can't say. Possibly the changes are too fast and or the freq. is too high for that meter. I am only now getting used to using my scope so maybe one of the other electronics folks here can help. I suspect the meter was designed to read in the range of 60 Hz give or take, and we have been seeing some wild stuff on the scopes that may be driving your meter crazy. I am just guessing here.
Bill
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Hi everyone.
This is dataloging but it is Stubblefield and I do not want to complicate the datalogging thread with un-plain things, so I am posting them here.
The ground is drying. One of these has 0.28vdc but it has plenty of the activity I saw with moist ground.
6 pix follow.
I will put them together for comparison so notice the caption says "both" at the end of its name when both NS coils are connected, otherwise just the one on the south is and the north is just the carbon rods.
jeanna
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Don:
I suspect the meter was designed to read in the range of 60 Hz give or take, and we have been seeing some wild stuff on the scopes that may be driving your meter crazy. I am just guessing here.
Bill
The meter is supposed to be able to read 5Hz to 10mHz. It just kept bouncing around between low Hz numbers to kHz numbers.
That website states my inclination is 68 degrees 45'.
Does that mean i have to lower the bottom of my + northern rod 68 degrees lower then the bottom of my - southern rod?
But at what distance between the rods? 45'?
Their FAQ help isn't very helpful :(
I'll take a look at your videos.
Thanks
DonL
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The meter is supposed to be able to read 5Hz to 10mHz. It just kept bouncing around between low Hz numbers to kHz numbers.
Don,
But that is right!
Your meter is reading the pulsing that my scope is showing.
Look at the right hand side of the meter screen and it will say what you are seeing. I see from 2hx to 5Mhz depending...
I think this explains what my scope is picking up,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE)
and it sounds to me like you're seeing the same thing.
I think if you watch my video with this in mind, it might make you feel better about all that jumping...
It is real.
:D yeay! :D
jeanna
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The meter is supposed to be able to read 5Hz to 10mHz. It just kept bouncing around between low Hz numbers to kHz numbers.
That website states my inclination is 68 degrees 45'.
Does that mean i have to lower the bottom of my + northern rod 68 degrees lower then the bottom of my - southern rod?
But at what distance between the rods? 45'?
Their FAQ help isn't very helpful :(
DonL
Don:
First, that site has nothing to do with what we are doing other than it tells you info you need to know about your area. It will not calculate the distance needed between your electrodes. This is pretty easy but there are variables and if you change one variable it alters everything. I started (I did this the easy way as I hate trig) with my south electrode and planted that to a reasonable depth. After looking up my local info on that site, I could see that for my electrode angle (measured from the bottom of one electrode to the bottom of the other) to be close to my dip angle I needed to put my north electrode X deep at X distance. I would have to draw it out but I believe the further apart your electrodes are the greater your angle gets if the depths remain constant. If you put this on paper you will see what I mean. Some of the parameters you are stuck with like possibly, the length of your electrodes, and for sure, the dip angle of your area, and maybe if you are like me, not much space to work with. So, you can vary the other parameters and hopefully get something close.
Bill
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Hi dllabarre
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp
...That website states my inclination is 68 degrees 45'.
Does that mean i have to lower the bottom of my + northern rod 68 degrees lower then the bottom of my - southern rod?
Hi dllabarre,
yes, this is how I understand it.
I just looked up what inclination the website would give for my place (in Europe). It came up with 60°.
I did not expect such a high value. Here an example for what that means (in my understanding):
With electrodes spaced 1 foot apart from each other, the one in the north would have to be buried more than 1 foot deeper than the south electrode.
I then calculated it to get the exact value.
tan(60°) = 1.7
So for 1 foot distance between the two, the north one would have to be 1.7 foot deeper than the south one.
If the electrodes are 2 feet apart, the north one would need to be buried twice that deeper, which is 2*1.7 = 3.4 feet.
Calculated with the ca. 68° inclination at your place I get:
tan(68°)
which means 2.5 feet down for every foot distance on the surface.
That seems really drastic, but you can see that the "Vertical Component" stated by the website, is much higher than the "Horizontal Intensity".
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Oscar:
Thank you. Nice job. You are obviously much better at trig than I am, which is pretty easy to do, ha ha.
Just for the heck of it, what is your magnetic deviation from true north over there?
Thanks again.
Bill
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hi guys,
i used Bill's cheat-sheet, on "how to make an NS coil"
[ if i had a time machine i would have gone back to get some cotton-coated wire....]
but im a little too lazy (and time deprived) to read through 95+ pages right now.....
so umm.... How do i use this thing?? what are we 'supposed to do' with it?
i have 4 leads comming out of it. 2 copper + 2 steel.
-
Thank you Pirate (Bill), Jeanna and Oscar for confirming these issues.
I was concerned because the dip was so deep from 1 eletrode to the other.
DonL
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....magnetic deviation from true north over there?
Declination given for my place is 2° 23'
(pos. value)
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....but im a little too lazy (and time deprived) to read through 95+ pages right now.....
Please sm0ky2,
do yourself a favour,
just need to read 2 pages (the patent)
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=600457A&KC=A&FT=D&date=&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
I also hate reading patents, but it's really written in a straightforward way.
Just 2 pages of text.
You won't regret it.
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hi guys,
....
so umm.... How do i use this thing?? what are we 'supposed to do' with it?
i have 4 leads coming out of it. 2 copper + 2 steel.
Hi sm0ky2,
I agree with oscar. Just read the patent. Our posts will probably not help much.
We ended up with 2 wires 4 ends (hmm, where have I heard this before? ;) ) all right, but this was just the primary of this complex inductor coil. The secondary which must have many turns to be longer than the primary is something almost nobody made.
According to the patent, it was the secondary that gave you the output.
Lately, I have been reporting earth probes with 2 of these at either end, and I am not even using them as the patent describes. I am again just using the primary.
I think the first real clue I got was when my NS coil picked up radiant energy coming off the joule thief. That time I was looking at the secondary output.
Oh and also, I made one that was built the same but with plastic coated tele - bell wire instead of silk or cotton. I called it the nongalvanic one. It works really well as an inductor or joule thief coil. It also picks up the radiant emanations from joule thief
But again, do read the patent. It is beautifully written and easy enough to follow.
jeanna
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...
That seems really drastic, but you can see that the "Vertical Component" stated by the website, is much higher than the "Horizontal Intensity".
Thanks oscar,
That is a nice clear explanation.
Here is my question.
What is so special about the surface of the ground in your /anyone's back yard?
I assume the hills are a normal part of the ground, so why not build a south level 1.6ft higher than the north as though it were a natural hill?
If you lived on the north slope of a hill you could find that exact angle from the theoretical vertical line , or is it line to the sun on our tipped axis?
I think it is the latter, and I suspect it does not need to be literally buried so deep. I suspect that an earth mound on the south for me is enough.
I could try this. My neighbors already gave up on me a while ago.
Thanks,
jeanna
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Jeanna:
First, let me say that I don't really know. My guess would be that the telluric/magnetic currents run beneath the surface at a given level so if you put a probe on a hilltop and another in a valley, that would not be the same as compensating for the dip angle in my opinion. It is not about elevation (again, in my opinion) but the relationship between the electrode bottoms and the currents under the surface. I don't think the distance above the surface would count.
But, once again, only one way to really know...right? I have no land here or I would try it out. My little garden area is flat.
Bill
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ok well, the coil by itself produces a potential of approx. 0.5v
with almost no measurable current, as to be expected from any steel / copper combo in open air...
the patent does say to use a secondary,
and also to wet the cell.
i guess my question is,. do i connect the 2 primary wires together at the ends? or what do i do with those??
im preparing to coil the secondary of 350 turns,
bifilar primary is approx 50 turns (100 in all)
but im unsure of what to do with the 4 wire ends..
the patent is not clear on that, it says to connect at least one end, but what of the other?
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Smokey:
If you wound and insulated that coil correctly, and it sounds as if you did, stick it in your sink and let the air bubbles stop coming out, takes about a minute or so. Pull it out and check the mA's. Make sure you are on a way higher scale than you think you could ever get...I lost 3 fuses this way before I realized what was happening. My guess is that your mA's will be between 18 and 40, but this is just a guess.
As to where the wires go...I would not connect copper to iron on either end as this will read as a short. It has been a while but I tested for volts and amps all the combinations I could think of like copper one end to iron wire on the other, copper on one end to core of the other, (my best readings) etc.
I never added much of a secondary to any of mine so I can't help there but, it would be cool to see what your primary puts out before adding the secondary, in case that makes it drop or increase somehow.
Bill
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ok well, the coil by itself produces a potential of approx. 0.5v
with almost no measurable current, as to be expected from any steel / copper combo in open air...
the patent does say to use a secondary,
and also to wet the cell.
i guess my question is,. do i connect the 2 primary wires together at the ends? or what do i do with those??
im preparing to coil the secondary of 350 turns,
bifilar primary is approx 50 turns (100 in all)
but im unsure of what to do with the 4 wire ends..
the patent is not clear on that, it says to connect at least one end, but what of the other?
Yes Sm0ky2,
The simple answer is we never found out.
You are correct the volts will never go higher than 0.5 and after you do as Bill says and you see the mA that is also the maximum you will see.
As I recall, it goes down quickly after this and even when you put it into the ground.
He was a little cagey about how to connect the wires, and we never did find an answer. In the patent he indicated that you would put a load between the iron and copper wires, but he was forced to call it a battery by the patent office, and I suspect that this was part of completing that requirement.
I realized we COULD get somewhere by connecting the wires. BUT NOT when it is connected or tested against itself.
I used one as the toroid in a basic joule thief circuit and got basic good joule thief results. I will look them up because they were the highest result I had ever achieved from a NS generator.
I bought an ignition coil 2 weeks ago and last week I persisted in a question about the fact that the primary and secondary are connected in that. I did get my answer, but it was lost on many people why I was so pushy about this inquiry.
In an ignition coil the primary and secondary are wound like this if you connect the ends that are the last ones out. He called these the 5,6 so I will from now on too.
If you connect the 5,6 wires, you get a center tapped bifilar coil with 2 similar lengths, but 2 different resistances and a magnetic component in the wire as well as in the core.
I once even wound a 22T secondary around one of these wires and saw many mvolts there when tested against the center bolt in the ground-- I think. I was confused about this and let it rest for a year, but it is an important part of what happens.
THAT was the Radiant Coil - the one that produced the scope measurements of 106mV from the radiant stuff from a joule thief. The scope was connected across the 200Turn real secondary wires. When I turned on the joule thief, and the scope got so active without touching the joule thief to the NSCoil.
Lots os questions remain.
thank you for doing this,
jeanna
oops edit add
I am using this connection in the tests I am reporting here.
I connect the 5,6 on the NS coil and connect that to the zinc probe. And I do the same thing at the north end to the carbon probe. It is the twisted 5,6 connected to the earth probes on one or both ends that is giving me the interesting scope results. You will not see this on a DMM. I have been showing the DMM results along with the scope results.
jeanna
the rain stopped me but I can show the dmm and one scope shot from these as I described today.
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Thank you Jeanna & Bill.
so Bill, just to be clear on what you're saying here...
(im going to call the ends of the core "top" and "bottom", because mine is oriented vertically, though NS said horizontally does not affect operation)
i leave the bottom ends "open", and measure across the top wires, while its wet??
@ Jeanna,
about the inclination, the SUN has little to do with this, i believe our magnetic field is a direct result of the spinning molten core deep inside the earth, causing an electro-magnetic induction.
This is the 'source' of the tri-phase signal we are picking up on our scopes with the EB data logging experiments.
were it caused by the sun, the "magnetic north" and resulting localized inclination of the field would change drastically throughout our annual orbit around the sun, and even would be somewhat noticible with day/night. Thus rendering our compasses useless.
-------------------------------------------------------------
my intuition tells me to send the pulsing DC from my EB-JT circuit across the steel wire of the stubblefield coil, and measure current through the copper... i'll definately get some data from that arrangement.
but im still puzzled as to how NS actually hooked up these 4 wires. or if he left 2 of them "open", or possibly sunk into the ground....
the ground here in kansas reads out at about 800KOhms anywhere between 1 inch and 7-feet. i havent tested further distances yet.
im also open to the possibility that NS tied the ends of each wire together, copper+copper and steel+steel. so i will experiment with that as well and post my results.
it may be important to mention that my "steel wire" is actually galvanized, as that was all that was available to me at the time.
this may or may not make a difference,..
-
i soaked my stubblefield and connected across steel wire on the bottom (-) and top copper wire (+)
leaving the other two leads open
it puts out 0.6v @ 8-12 ma
im now powering my JT circuit from this alone, as i have completely dissconnected it from the earth battery.
stubblefield and JT circuit are sitting on a glass table, in full operation as a stand-alone unit.
Success !!!!!
next step is to perfect the process of coiling stubblefields, and see if i can interlink several of them somehow...
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i soaked my stubblefield and connected across steel wire on the bottom (-) and top copper wire (+)
leaving the other two leads open
Good job!
Yes, that is how he said to do it.
Those are the 5,6. The wires that you started with he called the 10 wires so even though they belong to te same piece of wire they are called the 10's
He said these must be let alone.
Success !!!!!
So excellent.
next step is to perfect the process of coiling stubblefields, and see if i can interlink several of them somehow...
And you can see from MY results what happens when you link them according to the picture of him talking on his wireless phone with one wire on the ground going to a grounded coil in opposite directions.
I have a pic.
jeanna
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Could the chemicals in tap water have a negative effect on the cell, as opposed to naturally distilled and mineralized ground water ?
I recall that NS had wires coiled around the roots and branches of trees...could the 2 loose ends be connected there ?
Exciting to follow gang.
Regards...
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Cap:
Good point to raise but I don't think so. Because the ground water run-off is not pure and distilled as was the rain water that fell. Once it goes through earth's filters, it becomes pure again and I don't think his cells were buried that deep.
But, on the other hand, back then, way less pesticides and other ground surface pollutants and less acid rain so....maybe you are right that to replicate the rain he had back then, we might indeed need distilled water.
As I said...good point.
Bill
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Jeanna...I think you misread what Smoky2 said. He says he connected the neg AT THE BOTTOM to the pos AT THE TOP.
>I soaked my stubblefield and connected across steel wire on the bottom (-) and top copper wire (+)
leaving the other two leads open <
Doesn't that mean he connected one of the 10's with one of the 5/6's?
So, if that is the case then he did not leave the 10's alone. Or, did I read that wrong?
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Thanks Bill...if we're right about the water conditions possibly being a factor, which would seem logical to consider in a replication involving the properties of water, then it would almost have to be naturally mineralized spring water.
Distilled water (steam) is dead water according what I have been reading from various completely independent health advocates.
Apparently water is energized by passing through the atmosphere and mineralized by passing through the ground.
Regards...
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Smokey:
Quote from Smokey: "so Bill, just to be clear on what you're saying here...(im going to call the ends of the core "top" and "bottom", because mine is oriented vertically, though NS said horizontally does not affect operation)i leave the bottom ends "open", and measure across the top wires, while its wet??"
I got the best readings from the copper on the top and the core on the other end. This may or may not be the case for your coil so I would try all permutations.
Bill
[/]
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Jeanna...I think you misread what Smoky2 said. He says he connected the neg AT THE BOTTOM to the pos AT THE TOP.
So, if that is the case then he did not leave the 10's alone. Or, did I read that wrong?
You're right.
I was focusing on wondering why he even ended up at the bottom when the patent is very clearly drawn.
It probably doesn't matter with what he is doing anyway.
I made a really powerfull NS coil. Stephan even noticed and commented on the amps.
Within a day it was down by 75 percent.
This thing is a lousy galvanic battery.
If it were a galvanic battery to be reconned with, it would at least have zinc coating (which most of us did).
But, again, the ones I made with 'soft' iron were the best performers, even as lousy batteries.
Then with a secondary... I never had a scope.
I noticed for the first time how small the 2 generators were. Look at the pic of him standing in the middle of the 2. It probably depended on the application because there are many that are much larger, but it is really nice to see such a small one.
It is about the size (3 1/2") of the #3 which I have always got odd results from. It is the one in the youtube video you cannot see. called radiant joule thief1.
This is still a mystery, but I believe, one that is starting to crack.
And it is not a battery.
I do not know if it is a receiver or transmitter or both.
I wonder if it should be 3 feet above the ground too. In the family pic those 2 very large barrels are generators 3 feet above the ground. I may try to strap mine onto a piece of rebar.
The fun never ends!
thanks for pointing to my mistake,
jeanna
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i ended up at the bottom, because i made mine in the method described by Bill (even though he said to coil them back up to the other end...) i simply didnt have enough wire cut to perform that..
also, that would make it quadrafilar, not not bifilar....
i have since connected the 0-5 /1-6 without change to the operation. forgot to make a current measurement when i did this... will add later. but for now heres a photo.
i had to resoak the coil tonight, daylight sun dried it out and it stopped working.
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@ bill, i wil have to try tapping the core at a later time, mine ends are covered by the nylon stocking i insulated the core with.
but it seems to still work by connecting the ends of each wire together, so i have a copper loop and a steel loop, and it develops a potential beteen the two.
i'll cut away some of the covering from one end of the core and compare when i go back outside for more measurements.
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OK Sm0ky2,
I get it.
You don't want to read the patent. It is OK.
Have a look at the picture and copy it. If you need any explanations it is all there.
;)
jeanna
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...I assume the hills are a normal part of the ground, so why not build a south level 1.6ft higher than the north as though it were a natural hill?.........and I suspect it does not need to be literally buried so deep. I suspect that an earth mound on the south for me is enough.
I agree to this (but Bill does not, as he counts on underground telluric currents for the power).
Need to test it out.
First step would be a control experiment to confirm that the output of an EER system goes up when it is properly aligned to the earth-magnetic field i.e. North-South and also inclination (dip angle).
Did anybody establish this properly?
Maybe it has to be done very exactly like if you want to look into a laser beam, your eye would have to be very exactly aligned to the beam's axis. Like tuning to a narrow resonance peak.
Or is there still a noticeable power gain if the setup is a few degrees out of alignment?
I don't know.
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Oscar:
Yes, I have done this...well, to a point. So has Localjoe back in the early days.
My control was to stick 2 electrodes in the ground, not knowing where north/south was in my area at the time. (forget about dip angles as I have never even heard of them at that time) Joe's advice was to plant 1, and then stab around with the other electrode with your meter on it until you got the highest readings and then....plant it. This is what I did. as it turned out, I was on a direct line with the north/south meridian.
Later, as my knowledge progressed and I learned about dips angles, etc. I built my first real EB. (Now EER) Again, as luck would have it, my north (carbon rod) electrode was just about on the correct depth angle to my mag. fire starter blocks for the distance to be close to the dip angle in my area.
Later, when I got the 5 pound mag. block, I improved the alignment and got even better readings on my output. So, I believe in this approach as it has worked for me. I have not totally researched it but, anyone can do so like Localjoe said way, way back.
As I said many times before, if someone tries this and finds they get higher output E/W and 0 dip angle, well, I still say go for it. To me, the output rules.
I just start out telling new folks how I am doing it and if they can do better, more power (no pun intended) to them. But, when they say "I stuck 2 nails in the ground 2" apart and can't light 400 leds like you did so you must be lying", I get a little perturbed as that was not a fair replication.
So, take from this what you will, but I have seen an increase in output by following this method or I would not be doing it. There may indeed be better methods out there and if someone finds one, I hope they share and I will replicate it.
As far as how accurate do you need to be? Only as accurate as the maximum levels of your output tell you to be.
I really hope this helps. If anyone needs more explanation, just let me know. Thanks.
Bill
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@Pirate88179
Thanks.
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@all
I was playing with my demo earth battery. I don't have my Carbon and magnesium rods yet. Just using 1/2" copper pipe 4' long and 3/4" steel rod 3' long. I moved the steel neg rod until it was ~12 degrees off magnetic North according to that NOAAs website for my area and picked up 10% more voltage.
But what was interesting was when I added water to the ground around the steel neg rod the volts went down like others have reported but when I added water to the ground near the pos copper rod the voltage went up. ??? Very interesting.
I have my pos copper rod near where the rain gutter dumps water onto the ground. This should keep the ground real moist there. :)
DonL
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dllabarre said:
...But what was interesting was when I added water to the ground around the steel neg rod the volts went down like others have reported but when I added water to the ground near the pos copper rod the voltage went up. ??? Very interesting. ...
That's the first time I'd been told that. Your system is similar to one I built years ago with steel and aluminum. Steel was positive and aluminum was negative. The plans I followed suggested I water both materials I was using, but at that time I just relied on rainwater like you.
--Lee
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Hi Stprue!
:D
Great videos Jeanna. How is your StubGen made?
Thanks,
The little one is made on a 3 inch bolt about 1/2 or 5/8" thick.
The other one in the video was made on an iron plumbing pipe which is hollow, of course and is ~ 1 inch pipe.
The little one is #3 and the big is #11, so while they are wound the same way, they were covered as they were wound differently. Also the little one has 19 gauge iron and 18 gauge copper wires. This was the closest I could get to a match. It is thick and works very well.
The big one is made with thinner wire 24 gauge maybe and they match... but the iron is zinc plated or steel. I might have written it down somewhere. ;)
As far a winding them goes, I wound them as close as I could to the patent.
There is a lot of info on the 2 earth battery threads. I think from Feb to march 2008 is when we started to make them and I was still posting on localjoe's thread. I think most of it is there. I think by the time Bill started the bifilar speculations thread -this one- I was just collecting data and had finished building them.
Basically,
6 rows 60 turns each row 30 per wire on each row. Start and end at the top.
jeanna
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Hi everybody,
I am not sure where to post this pic. I made a drawing in schematic form to show the relationship of joule thief to NS generator in the posts relating to the movies about the NS generator.
It is relevant everywhere, but I am not able to decide where is best. So, here in speculations is where I am putting it!
This specifically shows the relationship between the joule thief and the NS Generator.
The scope is attached to the secondary of the NS Generator and not to the primary coils at all..
So, it is showing what the NSgen is able to pick up .
It picks up more from the joule thief than it does from the ground, or is it radiations in the air?
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Great post. Feel free to post this also over on the JT topic. There are more folks there and you will get more feedback on this circuit. I see no problem with posting this in both topics.
Thanks.
Bill
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The scope is attached to the secondary of the NS Generator and not to the primary coils at all..
So, it is showing what the NSgen is able to pick up .
It picks up more from the joule thief than it does from the ground, or is it radiations in the air?
It occurs to me from my past research that you could add coils or mesh-type structures to the JT output wires in order to radiate more power to the NS generator.
I suppose there's a point of diminishing returns somewhere, though?
--Lee
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It occurs to me from my past research that you could add coils or mesh-type structures to the JT output wires in order to radiate more power to the NS generator.
--Lee
Hi Lee,
I drew the pic with radiations coming out from the toroid and also the secondary of the joule thief, however, I am not sure where they are coming from. It seems most likely that they are coming from the toroid itself.
I realized this after I had posted the pic but since I don't really know where they are coming from I left it.
Did you see the radiant joule thief 3 video?
In it, I am lighting a fluoro tube and at the same time the NS generator is picking up 321mv from radiance. I do not know that it can't get it from the tube when that is lit, but I think it just might be the toroid.
I know there is a lot coming out of the center of the toroid. I have not been able to nail it down, but in certain angles relating to the center of the toroid, the scope will give much bigger numbers, or a reluctant neon will glow up.
I wonder what kind of mesh and how you are thinking of hooking it up?
This is very interesting.
Thank you,
jeanna
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Jeanna:
Without really knowing, my guess is this might be some form of inductive coupling or somehow matching of frequencies.
Bill
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Yes, that too.
I just waited 45 minutes but the latest video failed to upload- unknown error. Then I clicked on my videos and got a message that they are doing site maintenance. So, it will have to wait for tomorrow. It is 11 here and what on earth are you doing up so late? I know...
I will return in the morning.
jeanna
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jeanna said:
I drew the pic with radiations coming out from the toroid and also the secondary of the joule thief, however, I am not sure where they are coming from. It seems most likely that they are coming from the toroid itself.
Good thinking. I tend to agree. There was, by my memory, a posted drawing---graphics software---of the magnet fields around an electrified toroid. The point was: three fields were acting on each other to amplify power by the mutual action of the fields. You might be right about the toroid for that reason.
I realized this after I had posted the pic but since I don't really know where they are coming from I left it.
Did you see the radiant joule thief 3 video?
I would have to look for it. I've thought of something else? One 'newbe' on Overunity indicated in a post that capacitors pick up a charge from ambient energy in their surroundings; that's why they often have a bleed-off resistor to discharge them all the time. Have you heard of this?
In it, I am lighting a fluoro tube and at the same time the NS generator is picking up 321mv from radiance. I do not know that it can't get it from the tube when that is lit, but I think it just might be the toroid.
The NS generator is poorly understood by me. He was about as smart as Tesla, but using different technology.
I know there is a lot coming out of the center of the toroid. I have not been able to nail it down, but in certain angles relating to the center of the toroid, the scope will give much bigger numbers, or a reluctant neon will glow up.
Well, that's new to me. An inductor angled into, or toward, the center of the toroid?
I wonder what kind of mesh and how you are thinking of hooking it up?
This is very interesting.
As long as it's metallic, chicken wire mesh should work---it's lightweight, too. But I think copper wire, whether insulated or not, can be better. Copper is usually better for such applications than other metals.
LATER RE_EDIT:
jeanna,
Take a look at this:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=ktAZAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
and this:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=RHgkAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
--Lee
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It occurs to me from my past research that you could add coils or mesh-type structures to the JT output wires in order to radiate more power to the NS generator.
I suppose there's a point of diminishing returns somewhere, though?
--Lee
OK.
I guess, I understand what you are getting at. thanks for that explanation.
I was thinking of enhancing the other end of it, though.
I was thinking I'd make a kind of antenna which I would add to the NS coil.
So, this is a different take on the situation.
I like it.
How would you suggest I make a chicken wire transmitter for the joule thief? Just stick it on there and fiddle with it?
(This is such an interesting direction to go!)
thank you,
jeanna
edit
LATER RE_EDIT:
jeanna,
Take a look at this:
hmm. That looks dangerous to me. I mean dangerous in that it might attract the wrong crowd to my front door.
I might try some chicken wire, but nothing like a millimeter!
thanks,
jeanna
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OK.
I guess, I understand what you are getting at. thanks for that explanation.
I was thinking of enhancing the other end of it, though.
I was thinking I'd make a kind of antenna which I would add to the NS coil.
How would you suggest I make a chicken wire transmitter for the joule thief? Just stick it on there and fiddle with it?
(This is such an interesting direction to go!)
Well, here's an idea: The NS generator is an Earth-based system, right? Attach buried structures to it or the output wires to increase current/voltage. Many designs patented. You might be creative and test different ways(parallel; series setups, etc.)
hmm. That looks dangerous to me. I mean dangerous in that it might attract the wrong crowd to my front door.
I might try some chicken wire, but nothing like a millimeter!
You have a point. Homeland Security, to my mind, is suspicious of lots of things. Then there's local ordinances. Politics!!! ::) :P >:( :-\
--Lee
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Well, here's an idea: The NS generator is an Earth-based system, right? Attach buried structures to it or the output wires to increase current/voltage. Many designs patented. You might be creative and test different ways(parallel; series setups, etc.)
--Lee
I wonder...
With the secondary on a NS generator, there are 6 wire ends total.
I have twisted one pair for a centertap. Not the kind of centertap in a joule thief, however. I have connected the last-out ends of the primary wires (the 5,6).
I guess the secondary is the output wire.
It is the secondary that was connected to the scope when the NS gen showed a response to the joule thief.
I will be trying a few things soon.
I better buy another spool of speaker wire. I can connect the dome which is a big area. In itself, the dome did not enhance the dmm vdc reading, but this may need to be revisited with the scope.
Good ideas. Thanks Lee.
Oh, just to clarify, the 2 earth probes zinc and carbon are separated by 30 feet and added to each end is one NS generator, so there has been a buried influence all along.
jeanna
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@Jeanna,
I missed something here. Where did you first start talking about a Dome?? Just direct me back to that post so I can get caught up again. I have been busy trying to find out what Bill gained from his cu-zn-mg setup.
Also, Jeanna, what ever happened with the cement pots setup you made? Can you direct me there also?
@Bill.
I decided to try your cu-zn-mg device but was wondering what your results were, and why did you decide to use that configuration in the first place. I am up to page 17 in LocalJoe's forum again, trying to locate the reason you had. No luck yet.
I am following three forums and trying to remember everything but it is hard to do. And yet a lot of you are following a whole lot more forums than that...and you are doing just fine. Wish I was as smart as the rest of you. At least I am learning, and that is something to be proud of. I came in here knowing how to plug in a lamp, and now I am learning how to extract energy from the ground. Not too bad. That is, IF I can remember it all!
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I do intend to make a joule thief and some of the other projects talked about, but my main interest is in the NS EB. I want to make one just like Nathan's if at all possible. I want to see it work without using any external extras if that can be done. I don't think Nathan used any joule thief, or even supercaps. He must have just left something out of the patent that would have been obvious to anyone of his day. If anyone here knows any psychic that has the ability to channel the spirits, maybe we could ask Mr. Stubblefield just what it is we are missing. ;D But since that is not likely, I think we are on our own here.
I have my latest EB ready and waiting for the secondary wire, but I still have not ordered that. I probably should just go ahead and bury it while waiting for the wire and then dig it back up again, like we all did with our first EBs.
Here is the latest: First one Wet A200m = 92.5 Second one V20 = 0.83 No jump starts, no jt, no secondary, no ground - yet.
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jeanna said:
I wonder...
With the secondary on a NS generator, there are 6 wire ends total.
To be honest, I looked at Stubblefield's patent drawing and didn't understand it.
(Some patents are purposely like that.)
I believe the NS generator is like a buried transformer having a primary hooked up to two electrodes of differing metals, also buried? The secondary is the power takeoff?
I have twisted one pair for a centertap. Not the kind of centertap in a joule thief, however. I have connected the last-out ends of the primary wires (the 5,6).
For a center tap,(like a transformer?) your dealing with AC?
I guess the secondary is the output wire.
It is the secondary that was connected to the scope when the NS gen showed a response to the joule thief.
I will be trying a few things soon.
Only one wire has current? The center tap?
I better buy another spool of speaker wire. I can connect the dome which is a big area. In itself, the dome did not enhance the dmm vdc reading, but this may need to be revisited with the scope.
The speaker wire may also add to the electret effect?
A metallic dome---ungrounded---can generate a fair amount of power, if it's electrically sound. But, I think, something like steel isn't as good as copper.
Good ideas. Thanks Lee.
Sure. Glad to help.
Oh, just to clarify, the 2 earth probes zinc and carbon are separated by 30 feet and added to each end is one NS generator, so there has been a buried influence all along.
Right. Not surprising. It amazes me that any Earth battery works at all. It should be grounded. Whether or not burying the metal mesh collecting electrodes I had mentioned earlier will make a difference is mostly speculation by me. The NS system works, though.
--Lee
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Nice job!
@Jeanna,
I missed something here. Where did you first start talking about a Dome??
Oops, I guess I posted it on the wrong thread! :D It is easy to do that these days.
I have a dome frame in my back yard. It is made of electrical conduit tubing. I walkd behind it to install this year's EB and one day, I grabbed some speaker wire and strung that from the south end of the 30 footlong EB to a place on the dome fully expecting the volts to rise. But they did not! they went down. Then Bill reminded me that when he added some very big thing his volts went down but the amps went up.
I am getting a new cheapo meter that can read amps this week so I will continue with this. [I honestly cannot tell you where the original post was.]
Now,
I must say this...
"Do not bury it!!"
Stick a long metal post into the ground and make it so the NS gen can be connected to that post.
Al the clear pictures have a long (3 foot long) post where the patent has a short bolt.
All the clear pictures have 2 in clear evidence. Even in that family protrait there were 2 enormo barrel shaped Generators that were 3 feet above ground and there was a pair of them.
I think you might as well benefit a little from our failures. I am really sure the only thing that is buried is the end of the post!
Also, if you can, make 2 longish ends on the top. I am talking about the wire ends we called the 10's. The ends of the wires that are at the beginning of the windings. They are the pair that is buried below all the rest of the winds.
I am so glad you have gotten this far!
Now, to get you a scope somehow.
Renseek posted an open source scope that works on a sound card.
I just don't know how fast a sound card frequency will go, or rather how much higher than audible sound it will work??
Also, Jeanna, what ever happened with the cement pots setup you made? Can you direct me there also?
Oh dear, I was hoping you could do that. It must be on localjoe's thread in the winter. I know it was raining a lot during that time, and I had learned how to make cement so um...
I cannot find the pic but something else from around then it was dec 17, 07.
Did you want the data? or did you want to see one. I still have them. One still has carbon granules in it!
jeanna
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jeanna said:To be honest, I looked at Stubblefield's patent drawing and didn't understand it.
(Some patents are purposely like that.)
I understand.
I read the patent every day for probably 40 days.
The only thing about this patent that is sooo confusing is the junk he was forced to put in there by the patent office.
They would not grant him a patent unless it was a galvanic battery, which it was not.
So, every reference to it being a galvanic battery needs to be erased, and the whole business about putting it in a jar is added for the patent examiner too, and should be disregarded. But HE wasn't trying to hide anything. He was trying to promote something nobody understood.
I believe the NS generator is like a buried transformer having a primary hooked up to two electrodes of differing metals, also buried?
Please see my advice to protonmom about the stake in the ground and not burying it.
The secondary is the power takeoff?
For a center tap,(like a transformer?) your dealing with AC?
Only one wire has current? The center tap?
Yup
The load is off the secondary. He says a load can be off the primary but that is in the galvanic part.
The way I have hooked it up right now, is the twisted centertap is connected to the southern buried zinc nail which is 15 feet away from where the meter is. There is another set up at the north end just the same but to the carbon probe.
The speaker wire may also add to the electret effect?
A metallic dome---ungrounded---can generate a fair amount
Well, ya gotta use something. I am using more wire than before because I had such little galvanic action from the earth before, and I was using 24 gauge tele wire single strand. bill was using 14 gauge hook up wire, which I am using for the 9 foot apart probes in the ground EB.
The dome is very much grounded
Thank you,
I am getting 49 mv ac on top of anywhere from .845vdc down to .245vdc. The ac component does not seem to change... more to come here.
jeanna
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Here are some pics from the brochure provided by the pogue library.
Also 'in the ground' and 'buried' are used but the picture shows that only the stake is actially in the ground.
jeanna
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@jeanna,
thank you for posting the two text copies from the library.
Especially the first text scan with the info about one of Stubblefield's coils (core/coil length 7.5 inches, wire length longer than 100 feet).
In that first scan it also says "Figure 1 here refered to".
Do you also have a scan of this "Figure 1"?
Some more thoughts:
You wrote that you think that Stubblefield did not use a switching system to make/brake contact between 5&6 in order to get induction and thus AC in the secondary, but that he relied on some kind of natural frequencies for induction.
I think he would have used a switch. Yet, using the coils for phoning, he would have used a microphone as the switch.
Applying the microphone between 5&6 the magnetization of the primary and the iron rod would have changed modulated by the microphone. He would have then been able to pick up that signal with a receiver, stuck into the earth somewhere else.
So NS coils can be used for 4 purposes
1: electromagnet
2: power generation of DC in the primary
3: power generation of AC in the secondary, using a proper switching mechanism between 5&6
4: creation of a modulated signal to be transmitted into the earth as a magnetic signal by means of the iron rods, to be picked up by a receiver.
@protonmom,
the current reading obtained with your new NS coil published in
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg197009#msg197009
seems to be 92.5 on the 200 mA scale.
So the current output is 92 mA. This far surpasses any result I was able to obtain so far. Also the voltage (0.83 V) is quite high.
Congratulations.
Can you please give some details about the wires you used and about construction?
Or post a photo of some wire samples?
Bare copper wire and bare iron wire?
Or galvanized iron?
What did you use for insulation to prevent direct contact of the two wires?
If you attach a paper clip or small screw to a piece of thread to make a kind of pendulum and then dangle the screw in front of the coil, won't it be attracted to the core, when the wire ends 5&6 are shorted/connected or while an Amp-meter is attached between ends 5&6 (which is the same as making a short circuit)?
Or can you go round the coil with a compass (with 5&6 shorted), to see if it reacts?
It would be great if someone could get to the point that the core gets magnetized by the flowing current.
Winding a secondary before the core's magnetization is confirmed, makes little sense, in my opinion.
Thanks mom.
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@Jeanna
I would think if your dome was pyramid shaped you might get a jolt or three.
I take it the dome is just dome shaped.
On the cement pots, I just wanted to find out what YOU found out. I can search some more for that info.
Thank you for the Pogue stuff. All of that helps
You say not to bury the EB and I wont. I guess it is fortuitous that I made my eb in the way I did with the ability to add on if so needed. I can just add more all thread to the core for the "post".
@Oscar
I agree that NS must have used a mic as a switch, only I always thought it was the telephone receiver he used.
As for how I made this latest eb, I used all thread as the core inside a hollow steel pipe. And wooden discs for the ends.
I wrapped the core with cotton sheet material, then started winding the layers of fe galvanized wire, and cu romex. The romex cu was wrapped in cotton sheet strips. Each layer was wound tight with 21 rounds on the first layer and the rest all ended up to be 20 rounds. Don't know why I could not make them all 21 rounds. Then each layer covered in the same cotton sheet material as the bolt. (same as the strips, too...thank you Martha Stewart)
I will try the paper clip in a minute and post that. As for the compass, if I held it over the core, the compass pointed to what I believe is magnetic north because when I remove it from the core, it points to the north it usually does. (does that make sense?) If I hold the compass near the bottom of the core the needle points towards the core. If I hold the compass in front of the top of the core it points away from the core.
I will get back with the paper clip test shortly.
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jeanna said:
...They would not grant him a patent unless it was a galvanic battery, which it was not. ...
Seems plausible. But, then, can an ordinary transformer be used instead of a NS coil arrangement?
So, every reference to it being a galvanic battery needs to be erased, and the whole business about putting it in a jar is added for the patent examiner too, and should be disregarded.
That was the part which was confusing. I had the idea Stubblefield wanted it buried for that reason.
Please see my advice to protonmom about the stake in the ground and not burying it.
Good. I'll remember that.
Yup
The load is off the secondary. He says a load can be off the primary but that is in the galvanic part.
Both can be used? Will Stubblefield's invention work as he described it? Can yours approach his complexity in design and 1) work effectively or 2) be more efficient?
Well, ya gotta use something. I am using more wire than before because I had such little galvanic action from the earth before, and I was using 24 gauge tele wire single strand. bill was using 14 gauge hook up wire, which I am using for the 9 foot apart probes in the ground EB.
Maybe if I have the time, freedom and enough money, I might try the EB + the NS generator + the extended antenna(a la Moray) to see which works best.
--Lee
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Hi protonmom,
thanks for your reply.
.... fe galvanized wire, and cu romex. The romex cu was wrapped in cotton sheet strips.
Not knowing what romex means, I looked it up.
http://homerenovations.about.com/od/electrical/a/artromexnm.htm
Did you remove the original plastic insulation of the romex wire before you wrapped it in cotton or did you leave the plastic insulation in place?
About the compass experiment:
Normally the core/coil (with 5&6 shorted, i.e. current flowing) should have a magnetic north pole end with the other end being a south pole.
I wanted to determine which end is which?
On my coil (wound as in NS's drawing) the top seems to be the south pole, but due to the weak magnetization I am not sure.
If I hold the compass in front of the top of the core it points away from the core.
That seems to confirm my compass readings, i.e. top end of coil is a south pole.
Looking forward to the paperclip result.
And:
Are the voltage and current readings still as high today as they were when you took the photos?
Sorry for all the questions, but the values of your coil are really fantastic
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Here is something interesting:
I tested the paper clip and if I connected the 10's the clip was repelled. If I connected the 5 and 6 the clip was attracted to the core. If I held the clip over the ends of core (either one) without letting the core grab the clip the clip would spin...first in one direction and then the other. I found if I held the clip about 1/2 inch above either end it would spin (not just above the core).
If I held it above the wrapped core it would also spin but not as fast as above the end core. Now get this... I took the whole shebang and got it wet again. Brought it out and without tying any ends together.....it is still magnetic. Why is that? I thought the 5 and 6 had to be connected for it to be magnetic. What did I do?
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Oscar, Yes I patiently stripped the insulation off the electric wire....and stripped and stripped. I used an old paring knife. It wasn't too bad but wish I had an easier way.
If I understand magnetism right, if the needle points to the north it is the south end and vice versa. The magnetic waves travel from the south to the north.
If I am mistaken, someone correct me on this.
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Oscar, let me wait a few minutes and then I will re-check the coil for the dmm readings. (I just now took it out of the bath so want to let it drip a bit longer) Will get back to you shortly.
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I used an old paring knife. It wasn't too bad but wish I had an easier way.
A utility razor knife would be a whole lot easier. If you leave the wire stretched out in the hot sun it softens the plastic up.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Leedskalnin_Magnetic_Currents:Monsieur_Bonheur
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Hi Stubblefield guys,
I want to congratulate you all for making these items. They are not easy to make... but I think they will be rewarding.
Lee, I hope you are able to make one or 2...
IotaYodi, will there be one in FL?
Oscar,
I did a lot of magnet tests with a compass in Feb to march of 2008 on joe's thread. Many people jumped in and tested for magnetism along with me etc.
Protonmom,
I think that you found something with the spinning paperclip.
That was a brilliant idea to try!
Oscar and protonmom,
I have had the same kind of magnetic direction with all my coils but one.
That one was the opposite. I believe the compass swung the S to the top of the coil, but I could have that backwards... However, the difference in that coil is that it was made on a piece of pipe. Soft iron, but hollow. Everything else about it was the same as the rest of them.
Protonmom, the metal holding the magnetic direction is not what we are looking for here.
It is what makes soft iron different from steel or not soft.
It needs to change polarity easily enough but then hold the magnetic charge for the collapse.
OK, now here is what has me so excited about my scope findings.
I see many many pulses coming from the earth, and I do believe these pulses were what he was using.
Not for the tele receiver. Because as you say, oscar, that would have its own, but for ac electrical production it is essential to have a pulse.
He refers to "normal make and break"
We puzzled over that a lot last year, but Tesla also refers to make and break and while he used it for disruptive discharge = sparking, it really just means pulses.
Induction coils were very ordinary things back then. Everyone must have known how to set them up.
Sort of like setting up a 555 timer circuit.
It was easily done as a beginner.
You set up a coil and the make and break as you wanted it.
I am so excited by the up and down pulses happening all the time from the earth.
These comprise a pulse of 42 to 65 mv 2.5 million times per second.
I think we need to focus on this.
I have inundated the threads with pictures from my scope, so I will pass unless you want another one!
thank you all,
jeanna
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oscar,
Here are the 2 scans from the pogue library.
jeanna
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@All
Do you suppose there is some Earth action going on early in the morning that would discontinue in the afternoon that would affect the earth battery? I have tried all day to replicate the readings from this morning, to no avail. It went down, and there she stayed. Could it have been electrical energy coming off ME??? that caused the higher readings this morning? I just don't understand how I can get a high reading then, but not now. It is very frustrating. Here are some photos of what I did get this afternoon.
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@Jeanna
could you post a pdf of all that you received about Stubblefield? Or, have you already? Thank you.
EDIT: Never mind, Jeanna...I think I must already have it all. If you get more, though, please post that, okay? Thanks
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Protonmom,
You are right, I have already posted it all.
There was some stuff from electricme, but I think that has all been posted too.
I love that brochure.
Did you notice that the handwriting says mine and me?
It is Stubblefield's own notes on the brochure.
The rest of what I 'know' has been because I go to sleep wondering about it, and often when I have done that for some nights, I wake up with a dream or a plain realization about it.
It is easy what I do to get these understandings, but I doubt it would come if I were not so very interested in understanding.
So, I have been using the trash compactor on my computer today. I found that I have less than 20 gigs free space. That is OK but it won't be very soon. Making movies for youtube from avi files of my taking has resulted in a use of about 2 gigs per youtube movie. And 8 of them makes it about 16gigs in a week! :D
It has been fun, but I just needed to clear the extras away. Then I can make my final explanation which shows what I have learned about inductors added to a circuit. (I am not saying it is a lot yet I just want to finish telling it.)
thank you, thank you, thank you,
jeanna
edit
I bought and read the book by Lochte about NS.
"Kentucky Farmer invents Wireless Telephone"
Mostly it was about his efforts to make the cell phone, but all the locals talk about how Stubblefield invented the radio, so it was focused on the question, but Is it Radio?
Well, no, but a cell phone to be used on horse and buggy is not too shabby for forward thinking.
;)
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Jeanna, I know you have a lot of irons in the fire at this time, but I hope you don't leave us here in the NS EB field. I need you to stick around. You have helped me a lot. I will have questions 'til the cows come home. When I start making my jt I will have a whole lot more. But I need to know you will be here for the NS EB project to its finish. (Until we get one that really, truely works.)
In your scope readings for today, did you notice anything different this morning compared to this afternoon that might explain why my readings were so different at those two times of day? Why could I not replicate what I got this early morning? I did everything exactly the same as far as I can remember. The only difference was the time of day. Are there changes in the magnetism of the earth during different hours? I am just really upset about this. Wish I could figure it out. Anyone else know what could have caused this?
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@All
Do you suppose there is some Earth action going on early in the morning that would discontinue in the afternoon that would affect the earth battery?
... Here are some photos of what I did get this afternoon.
Please go out at the same time tomorrow if possible.
I do not know if I said this here, but my best performer only gave good results for about 10 hours.
If yours doesn't improve tomorrow, I would think that yours is falling into a similar category.
Not to worry though, It is now one of my great performers. It is the ac, and you cannot pick that up with a dmm. It is oscillation way too fast for it to pick up. (I think anyway.)
====
edit add:
But I need to know you will be here for the NS EB project to its finish.
Oh goodness, I am not leaving the stubblefield thread!
I stopped last year because I did not know what to do next. No one else did either, I think.
The joule thief thread has allowed me to understand way more than I could have by staying only here.
I want to have a way to make usable power from the earth power.
I am very determined, as you can see. I cannot even get a joule thief to light from my earth battery!, but I am not concerned. I am sure I will. And, I think I am on the track.
====
I decided to post today's pics here because of what I said earlier about the pulses.
The dmm is reading 925mvdc for the plain EB, and only around 700mvdc for the long eb with 2 NS generators added to each end, but the difference in what they pick up is amazing... and that is why I think this is what we are looking for.
1st pic plain eb at 10 milliseconds of time per division on the x axis going left to right. (these are the earth currents that are normally there.)
The second is the eb with 2 NS coils added. It is the exact same setting on the scope but the scope cannot even read the voltage because it is off the chart! (look at the effect this NS coil has on the currents that are there. It grows them immensely.)
jeanna
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Second Edit:
I just got my new tiny meter for reading dc amps. So, I will add this here.
Plain EB - 35.7uADC
EB with 2 NS generators = 96.4uAdc (almost one milliamp)
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2 NS generators added to each end,
Please post a pic of this setup of the 2 NS generators at each end. Thanks
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Please post a pic of this setup of the 2 NS generators at each end. Thanks
Ta Da
===
and I found the pic with the cement pots. I cannot find your request for it, protonmom, but, to save pages on the website, I will add it here as an edit.
The N-S directions and the voltages are all right on the pic.
jeanna
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@IotaYodi
Sorry for not responding earlier. I will definitely try the utility knife next. It has to be better and sharper than my old paring knife. Thank you.
@Jeanna
Okay then...I see what you mean by being at both ends now. I will have to try that setup.
On your cement pots (I always want to say "cement ponds" ;D) what did you learn? I have two cem. pots ready for something, just don't know what. I made them pretty big. They are ugly, but who cares if they are planted in the ground. What matters is do they do anything???
Well, what do you know. I hooked up the new EB with the cu at the top and the fe hooked to the bottom of the core. Here are the readings. It went back almost to what it was earlier today....from a totally different hookup. Now, why would it do that?
On the last one, I cannot see what the setting was on, but I generally check the V200 or V20 and the A 20m or A200m. My guess is A200m but not sure. Will do over again another time.
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@Jeanna
Okay then...I see what you mean by being at both ends now. I will have to try that setup.
Cool!
On your cement pots (I always want to say "cement ponds" ;D) what did you learn?
hmm cement ponds. well that would hold some water...
I set them up to see if I could add in series.
At that point we were all noticing that we could not add in series.
If we added anything it would go to zero more than likely.
So I wanted to try the cement thinking that it would be earthlike and in the earth but have a kind of separation at the same time.
I tried many things. One of the pots frankly refused to work.
So, I only used 2. One has carbon granules from a spent brita filter. Sometimes I would use a carpenter's pencil, but this time it was a copper pipe. The other is filled with soil like a flower pot.
As you can see, The initial cu-zn connection gave me 0.83vdc. But then I walked the wires through 2 cement pots in a series order and when the final zn was in place the voltage was .93vdc. That was an improvement. But the winter was cold and rainy and I never pursued it much. Also, we began to work on the Stubblefield coils just then.
I have two cem. pots ready for something, just don't know what. ... What matters is do they do anything???
Only one way to know! ;D
Those are high readings.
Anything over 10mA is a high reading for an earth battery. Maybe it is time for you to try an led?
Put the neg side of cap on the fe with the short leg of the led and connect the other 2 legs to the cu side of the eb wires....and maybe you will get a light.
Red is what Bill used from the plain eb.
Wow, you are moving fast! very wonderful.
jeanna
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@jeanna,
thank you for posting the scan of Stubblefield's full flyer here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg197127#msg197127.
To me this is the most important document about his cell apart from the patent.
Interesting to read that the Fe wire would SLOWLY degrade, yet the Cu would remain more or less intact.
So you are right. The cell is started by a galvanic process, but then the resulting current evokes an additional effect (the magnetic field of the coil), which is what makes his invention so important and unique compared to other batteries.
Also his handwriting
The pat office officials would not accept my name of magnetic induction cell as proposed by me.
@protonmom,
... with the cu at the top and the fe hooked to the bottom of the core.
routing the minus (= the Fe wire) through the core and achieving higher current output with this trick is very interesting, if it is not a measuring error.
What if you hook up the Fe to the top of the core? You get the same effect?
Maybe you can stand the coil upright into a plastic beaker with a LITTLE water in it, so that the water just covers base of the coil.
In this way the water can seep up through the cloth, keeping the coil body moist automatically.
Then you could keep the DMM connected for continuous readings on the 200mA scale, following what happens to those readings for a day or two without interruption.
But I have a problem with your latest data:
In the first photo (A20m 0.61.jpg ) in last posting
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg197160#msg197160
the Amp reading is very low (zero-point-six-one milliAmpere) compared to the day before, when you got ninety-two_point_five milliAmpere
here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg197009#msg197009
Yet you write
.... It went back almost to what it was earlier today....
But the two Amperage/current readings are orders of magnitude apart!?
Is there an error somewhere ( probably in my understanding)
Please keep us/me posted in case you have time to take more readings.
Thanks mom.
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"Earth Energy and Vocal Radio" Nathan Stubblefield
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
Interesting read.
DonL
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...if it is not a measuring error.
What if you hook up the Fe to the top of the core? You get the same effect?
Lots of us found the same results as protonmom has.
...
Then you could keep the DMM connected for continuous readings on the 200mA scale, following what happens to those readings for a day or two without interruption.
Excellent idea. I agree. If you can do that protonmom.
But I have a problem with your latest data:
...the Amp reading is very low (zero-point-six-one milliAmpere) compared to the day before, when you got ninety-two_point_five milliAmpere
I had the same thing happen which is why I am hoping protonmom can do a continuous test to report how fast and how much etc.
It is isn't too late already.
Mine never went back up to the original reading I had from that first day.
But... it is doing very well as a radiant receiver!!
So, yeah, protonmom, please do us a favor and take all those measurements, please!
thanks also to oscar,
jeanna
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Oscar
I am sorry for the confusion. I meant to say I hooked up the cu (pos) at the top of the coil, but then hooked up the NEG wire to the bottom of the core..in other words to the all thread at the bottom. It was not the fe going through the core to the bottom...but that does sound interesting. It was just a brain slip. Copper pos wire hooked up at the top of the entire coil setup...and the neg wire of the DMM hooked up to the all thread which goes through the middle of the entire assembly...making that the fe hookup. Yes, it was the exact same reading for the bottom core (bolt) as it was at the top of the core (bolt) I just now checked the reading again. WITH THE BLACK NEG WIRE hooked up to the core bolt instead of to the fe wire of the assembly, the reading is now .93 both top and bottom. Don't know just what it means, or why the readings are good there at all and why not at the fe anymore, but perhaps it is cyclic? We shall see as I have not, and will not give up. Hope I cleared that up and sorry again for being tired when I was writing that. EDIT Remember though, the first readings as per my pic I posted was taken with the cu pos and the fe neg and no bolt in the picture at all.
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I bought a cheap analog meter the other day, but dont know a thing about how to read it. If I were to take photo shots of the readings using that meter with or without the DMM would anyone here be able to read it by just looking at the pics? I will try to not get the flash too bright, or get it out of focus. I would like to hook up both the analog and the dmm at the same time but that probably would not work, would it???
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Protonmom:
I don't know if this helps or not but, in my 2 Stubblefield coil attempts, I found that my best reading always came from the cu wire (either end) and the core. (iron)
You might try checking continuity on all wires and to the core just to see that a short has not developed somewhere. (maybe you have already done this)
Like Jeanna said, we got great results in the early stages and then.....it seemed to dwindle. I don't know why this was and I am pretty sure no one else did either.
That is why I followed someone's suggestion to add vinegar to the ground where my coil was buried. Sure enough, all my numbers went sky high... for a while....then....nothing....end of coil.
We have a lot more to learn about these coils and I admire the work you are doing. you had said you wanted to catch up to us on these experiments and, I believe you have. Jeanna has a better memory than I but, I have seen what she has posted to you about our former efforts and I agree with everything she has told you.
Now, you are exploring new territory. Please keep it up and keep reporting your results.
Bill
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At 10:23 p.m.Eastern time (just now) I checked the DMM reading with the leads of the meter hooked up neg to fe and pos to cu leaving 10's open...and no core. I will leave the meter running for a bit and hope the battery does not run down.
EDIT: I forgot to include the readings... It was .52 on the V20
Jeanna, on the previous page where you posted the two files from Pogue, they do not show up all the way. I thought maybe it was just slow, but I have tried and tried to get it to completely load to no avail. I was wondering how (I think it was Oscar) someone could read the part of Nathan's handwriting when I have never been able to see it all. Even the pages I thought I had saved from earlier did not have it all there. Those pngs and gifs just don't load right. Is there any way you could put it all into a single pdf and send it on over? I would thank you one million times.
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I will try
Here goes. this has made my page extremely wide. I cannot read anything all at once. I did not realize this would happen.
I hope this works.
jeanna
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Hi protonmom,
....... the reading is now .93 both top and bottom.
1) you should mention what was measured, Amperes or Volts?
Or give the scale/setting of the DMM. mA? V?
2) Yes your new AMM can be read from a photo. Just publish as high resolution as possible (never mind the file size, as long a it's within the upload limits)
It works like this:
the instrument has several scales with numbers on them.
You choose one of these scales using the settings-dial.
Example:
Suppose the dial of the instrument offers a "200 mA" setting.
Set the dial to this setting.
One of the scales will have the figure "2" or "20" or "200" written at the right end.
That is the applicable scale for the chosen setting.
Once you have selected a certain setting with the setting dial, you can forget about all the other scales apart from the applicable one.
Suppose the needle moves a quarter of the whole way.
It would point to approx. "50" on the applicable scale.
So the meter would measure "50 mA"
(which is the same as 0.05 A)
3) Yes you can use both multimeters simultaneously, one set to read Amperes, the other to read Volts.
First connect the meter you want to use for the Voltage reading. Note that its reading will drop dramatically, as soon as you connect the other meter (set for Amp reading).
That is normal.
If it is not clear to you why, I will explain it.
4) You can leave the instruments connected for days and keep them switched on. They do not need much energy. The batteries won't go down that fast, according to my experience.
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@Jenna
IotaYodi, will there be one in FL?
Not anytime soon. Though I will hook up an scope to the probes when I get it and that should be shortly I hope. I am researching different coil configurations and conical capacitors. They may or may not be used for earth circuits. Conical capacitors are supposed to have a much higher capacitance.
You mentioned Earthquake and the associated sensation. A while back there was activity in the gulf. I was sitting at my computer and all of a sudden felt disorientated. Found out an hour or so later it came from the gulf and traveled to the east coast ( I live close to the west coast) and a friend of mine who lives close to Melbourne Florida said it broke some windows in the area. These waves must wreak havoc on the inner ear.
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i ended up at the bottom, because i made mine in the method described by Bill (even though he said to coil them back up to the other end...) i simply didnt have enough wire cut to perform that..
also, that would make it quadrafilar, not not bifilar....
I think you might be confused about how this coil is supposed to be built. By saying it would be quadrifilar, I think you are supposing that you would be adding another wire to those you already have.
If you were to unwind HALF of the coil that you have made, and re-wind the wire back to the top you would be much closer to the intended coil.
there ARE 4 wire ends, but there are 2 wires.
The beginning ends are called '10' - either one, and the finish ends are called 5 and 6.
This will automatically give you a stake at the bottom that you can pound into the ground.
You can also let the unconnected '10' wires stick up in the 'ethers' which he says to do. The '10' ends of the wires are not supposed to be connected to anything so they can perform as intended. (?)
I am now finding evidence that makes me believe that these are antennas.
I hope this helps to clear up some stuff.
(I really did read the patent every day for a long time.)
i have since connected the 0-5 /1-6 without change to the operation.
I do not understand what you are referring to here, but it may be related to the quadrifilar question?? ??
or...
0-5 may be what we called '10-cu' and 1-6 may be what we called '6'. Please explain.
Thanks Sm0ky2. Keep up the good work.
@IotaYodi,
I love the idea of conical caps. I have it in mind to make conical induction coils after I settle my understanding a little about cylindrical ones first!
If you just pound a nail and piece of copper pipe into the ground an armspan apart and connect them with wires or aligator clips (the clips must NOT touch the ground!!!!) and read the scope reading when it is not storming, you would be adding a lot to our results.
- Interesting observation about ears. I guess an EQ must make a compression wave when it happens. I wonder if part of it an overtone of it is scalar? Maybe that is why animals get disturbed and the spikes are soo hard to catch.
hmm,
thank you,
jeanna
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@Jeanna
Could you give me a range of frequencies (highest/lowest) you're getting from your coils?
And if possible, what range of frequencies have the most activity?
Just a general idea.
Thank you,
DonL
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That would be a hard one.
This is what I find so interesting this year.
I have 2 planted with their stakes into the ground.
And, these show the same frequency as each other and as the plain EB on a given day.
Actually here is what happens.
the plain EB shows a frequency of lets say 2.4MHz on a certain day.
The Stubblefield EER will show twice that.
But if I only connect one of those coils to the EER at a time the frequency will be the same 2.4MHz.
What I think is happening with the doubling effect is that they are phased differently.
(I think I can use the word phase here.)
So, I see individual peaks from each one combined into a more complex one.
Maybe 3 would give me a 3 phase?
That would be 7.2Mhz, and I am not too sure I could read that!
But anyway, it is the ground that is telling the frequency, and the coil is picking it up.
If you were to collect all my pics and make sure you keep the day separate, you will see what I am talking about.
The volts are what is changing, I think.
I can double check the inside ones with the joule thief to see what
the radiant reception is between them.
I just got my LC meter and I plan to measure each one with all its
different coils arrangements.
I am wondering if a toroid can be mounted on a stake and if so, how much of a magnifier that would be. Bifilar, bimetal, with ends sticking up and wound with a twisted center tap or series connection as with these NS coils.
Anyway, My plan, after I have the list of inductances, is to see what it takes to raise the voltage.
If the frequency is pulsed into the coil I want to find which one responds with the highest voltage, then refine it from there.
Lots to learn here!
jeanna
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I should probably ask this question in the jt forum, but will ask it here also. (Actually I did ask this once before, but never got an answer to it.)
Could someone please give me a shopping list of the type/number for any diodes, resistors, transistors, caps, etc., I would need to make a proper workinng jt? Also where is the best online place to buy these parts?
I saw some so-called super caps on ebay but they were those cylinder type caps. Do we use those big ones, or the flat round ones? Can any parts off old computer monitors or television sets be used for the jt? Also, I have Fuji, Kodak, Polaroid, and many off-brand instant cams. I know there are diagrams for some of them but has anyone tried those off-brand ones? They would be such names as Walmart, Rite-aid, etc. I just hate to throw out all those cameras if they can be used.
Also, Jeanna: Could you tell me again, how to tell which of the Fuji cams is the best one to use? I don't have many labels remaining on these cameras...just enough of the label to show it is Fuji...so is there some other marking inside, perhaps, that would show me I have the correct one? Maybe you have a picture of the innards of that one? Thanks.
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...
Could someone please give me a shopping list of the type/number for any diodes, resistors, transistors, caps, etc., I would need to make a proper workinng jt? Also where is the best online place to buy these parts?
Shopping list.
You will get 10 toroids so notice that you can get 10 of everything else. Verrrry cheap.
Allelectronics is my source. There is no minimum and the shipping is flat $7.
Tor-23 10/$1 I love this little guy.
1K ohm resistor 10/$0.50
Get a 1k ohm pot. 5/$1 while you are paying for shipping.
2N3904 5/$0.75
or
2N2222 same price so maybe get some of each.
Plus, you will very soon want at least one 2N3055. ($1.35, I think.)
Battery holders are 70 cents each, but very difficult to make well. I get 5 AAA and 5AA just to have a variety.
They have some leds that are bright enough, so get 5 or 6. Later you can get 100/$9.00 from china on ebay.
Get one or 2 of their small breadboards to save on de-soldering when you experiment.
Electronic goldmine has my second favorite which I use to make real winning MK1 toroids.
It is called a medium filter and is also used as an inductor. It has red wire on 2 sides.
The goldmine also has a cheap toroid called medium.
It is a bigger one that lots of people have but I do not like it very much. It is 5/$1.
The goldmine has good prices too but has a minimum order size of $10, I think, so I usually keep a list going for goldmine purchases.
The shipping is also $7.
Also, I have experienced more delays with the goldmine than with allelectronics.
They are both good places.
Can any parts off old computer monitors or television sets be used for the jt?
Yes, but others need to help here.
Also, I have Fuji, ... I just hate to throw out all those cameras if they can be used.
They can usually be made to work, but you need to look at the circuits page that Bill put up to get those.
My pic of the right fuji is there too.
Look in the joule thief forum area then choose the one called circuit diagrams or like that.
Briefly, you want the fuji that has the black smooth button on the front.
This camera uses a AA not a tripleA.
Freeenergy found a third fuji so I don't know anymore.
It is one of the main reasons to wind them yourself.
As far a the best instruction is concerned, I like the video from makezine the best.
I remember now, that you cannot watch this, but if you can somehow get to a library or friend's place,
it watch it 3 times then go for it.
They have a pdf at makezine that helps too.
Bill used the instructables one, but I think there might be a mistake or a part that is unclear about the wire connections.
But at least that is not a video.
I am sorry for not answering before!
jeanna
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;D Jeanna, thank you very much! That is very helpful, and now I can start ordering. I just didn't want to go off in a hurry and order the wrong items.
It looks like I will go with allelectronics. I have not been to their website yet, but if YOU buy there, they must be good. (I highly respect your opinion)
Not a problem that my ? never got answered before as we all get so busy.
Well, I will go check out that site and see what goodies they have to offer. Thank you again! ;D
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Yes, but others need to help here.
Additional parts for the JT?
If you want high voltage, a defunct CRT filament tube from a TV will have a high voltage transformer and so will a microwave oven(the Microwave O ven Transformer---MOT).
These can even be found by the sidewalk or road as junk. For free.
--Lee
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the_big_m_in_ok said:
If you want high voltage, a defunct CRT filament tube from a TV will have a high voltage transformer built into the chassis and so will a microwave oven(the Microwave O ven Transformer---MOT).
--Lee
What I meant was a transformer that gives a step-up ratio in voltage of, say, 500-1000:1 . Car ignition coils work just as well.
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Hi everybody,
I am posting this here because it seems to belong with the iron winding element of stubblefield, somehow.
I have just gutted 3 cfl's in the last week.
I find it very surprising that the 2 filaments coming out of each tube are made of iron.
I also wonder how significant it is that there are 7 turns of this iron wire around a NON ferrous metal post??
Well there you have it.
jeanna
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2 pin cfls have a starter with a magnetic preheat ballast. That may be the reason for the iron wire. 4 pins are usually electronic ballasts and don't have an internal starter.
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Wow
Gravity block just gave me some important info on the jt topic.
I do not get why he thought it was important, there, but you guys are gonna love this.
I copied this from wiki
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The Wiegand effect is a nonlinear magnetic effect, produced in specially annealled and hardened wire called Wiegand wire.
Initially, Wiegand wire is low-carbon Vicalloy (an alloy of cobalt, iron, and vanadium) wire, fully annealled. In this state the alloy is "soft" in the magnetic sense- that is, it is attracted to magnets (it is ferromagnetic and so magnetic field lines will divert preferentially into the metal) but the metal retains only a very small residual field when the external field is removed.
Then, the wire is subjected to a series of twisting and untwisting operations, to cold-work the outside shell of the wire, while retaining a soft core within the wire, and then the wire is aged. The result is that the magnetic coercivity of the outside shell is much larger than the inner core. This high coercivity outer shell will retain an external magnetic field even when the field's original source is removed.
The wire now exhibits a very large magnetic hysteresis loop - if a magnet is brought near the wire, the high coercivity outer shell excludes the magnetic field from the inner soft core until the magnetic threshold is reached, at which point the entire wire (both the outer shell and inner core) rapidly switch magnetisation polarity. This switchover occurs in a few microseconds, and is termed the Wiegand effect.
The value of the Wiegand effect is that the switchover speed is sufficiently fast that a significant voltage can be output from a solenoid using a Wiegand-wire core. Because the voltage induced by a changing magnetic field is proportional to the rate of change of the field, a Wiegand-wire core can increase the output voltage of a magnetic field sensor by several orders of magnitude as compared to a similar coil with a non-Wiegand core. This higher voltage can easily be detected electronically, and when combined with the high repeatability threshold of the magnetic field switching, making the Wiegand effect useful for positional sensors.
Once the Wiegand wire has flipped magnetization, it will retain that magnetization until flipped in the other direction. Sensors and mechanisms that use the Wiegand effect must take this retention into account.
The Wiegand effect is a macroscopic extension of the Barkhausen effect as the special treatment of the Wiegand wire causes the wire to act macroscopically as a single large magnetic domain. The small high-coercivity domains in the Wiegand wire outer shell switch in an avalanche, generating the Wiegand effect's rapid magnetic field change.
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thank you,
jeanna
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Hi to everyone
I wonder if anyone one knows a source to machine acrylic pieces to make a coil like Lasersaber's , I plan to make them big and in series parallel, but I tried sources online like emachine , that are never available and required expensive huge orders, now , I live in the usa, but as right now I have to live in a remote part of the world where I have not chance to do this no reliable source , certainly my solitary free time is fullfiled with this ideas I have the other materials but can't cut with precision like I need for my own setting
I will appreciate any help in this regards
Cheers
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Hi to everyone
I wonder if anyone one knows a source to machine acrylic pieces to make a coil like Lasersaber's , I plan to make them big and in series parallel, but I tried sources online like emachine , that are never available and required expensive huge orders, now , I live in the usa, but as right now I have to live in a remote part of the world where I have not chance to do this no reliable source , certainly my solitary free time is fullfiled with this ideas I have the other materials but can't cut with precision like I need for my own setting
I will appreciate any help in this regards
Cheers
Just a thought for you. If you are speaking of the end cap pieces, they do not have to be round. You could make them square, which is much easier to do, and as long as you made them large enough, it should work just fine.
Bill
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Thank you for this information jeanna and thank you Gravity block.
Hopefully others will see the gravity of the information that you have provided.
Thanks and take care.
nap