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Author Topic: My s1r9a9m9 replication!  (Read 463864 times)

Offline gettinwet

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  • Posts: 20
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #735 on: August 09, 2008, 04:14:16 AM »
@xbox

Good job! I didn't have time to work on the injector today. I was going to go into the shop tomorrow AM for a while and try to sort it out but I now have to captain a boat tomorrow morning so maybe in the PM I will swing by the shop and finish.

Offline pvar06

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  • Posts: 9
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #736 on: August 09, 2008, 08:47:27 PM »
Hi All,

Yet another sad day for me. As i could not get the plasma spark on my plug using the Cap70 circuit. I would be glad if some body can pin point the error. I did the following:

1. Did not used the pulse pickup coil and attached diaod / transistor as i have taken the HV directly from my bike, which already has the Pulse pickup coil, capacitor and ignition coil.

2. Primary coil 32 turns using Aluminium / copper wire of 16 gauge and on secondary side it was 12 turns.

2. Rest all circuit is same as Cap70 circuit.

I had following obervations:

1. The insulated wire coil (12 turns) was getting the charge from ingition coil and returning the same to the earth side of the plug. Since the positive and earth were shorted out hence no spark at plug when place in the circuit.

2. No heat is observed at coil or any other component.

3. When removed the ground connection on the plug coming from the coil there was a spark on the plug as this time there was no sorting and plug was getting the HV from ignition coil.

4. When the wire connected to the earth side of the plug is removed and taken to near to the bike body then it was showing the spark. I think the positive charge coming out from the plug and going to the other end through insulated wire, but was not in position to energize the primary coil having 32 turns.

I dont know the mistake i did. Any help in this matter is highly appriciable.

Regards

Praveen

Offline pvar06

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  • Posts: 9
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #737 on: August 09, 2008, 09:13:56 PM »
Hi All,

Although i could not get the first plasma spark using the Cap70 curcuit but still i am thinking about various solutions. I hope  i will get the desired help to get the first spark.

I was thinking of removing the ignition coil and capacitor from the system and was planning to use the Color monitor flyback transformer. The reason for using this was on following account:

1. It modulates the power at 15.7 Khz which is close to the 14.3 Khz (the best frequecy described in Stan document to detonate the water).

2. It has constant and good high voltage at all the time but unfortunately with low current.

3. We can use the point system to retard / advance the ignition timing and this switch will be on 12 volt side.

We can use the coil side circuit of Cap70 to add up the current. I think this can give us the desired result. One schematic for the same is enclosed herewith, would like to have the view of the members.

Regards

Praveen

Offline tiltfulll

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  • Posts: 23
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #738 on: August 09, 2008, 09:18:07 PM »
Hi All,

Yet another sad day for me. As i could not get the plasma spark on my plug using the Cap70 circuit. I would be glad if some body can pin point the error. I did the following:

1. Did not used the pulse pickup coil and attached diaod / transistor as i have taken the HV directly from my bike, which already has the Pulse pickup coil, capacitor and ignition coil.

2. Primary coil 32 turns using Aluminium / copper wire of 16 gauge and on secondary side it was 12 turns.

2. Rest all circuit is same as Cap70 circuit.

I had following obervations:

1. The insulated wire coil (12 turns) was getting the charge from ingition coil and returning the same to the earth side of the plug. Since the positive and earth were shorted out hence no spark at plug when place in the circuit.

2. No heat is observed at coil or any other component.

3. When removed the ground connection on the plug coming from the coil there was a spark on the plug as this time there was no sorting and plug was getting the HV from ignition coil.

4. When the wire connected to the earth side of the plug is removed and taken to near to the bike body then it was showing the spark. I think the positive charge coming out from the plug and going to the other end through insulated wire, but was not in position to energize the primary coil having 32 turns.

I dont know the mistake i did. Any help in this matter is highly appriciable.

Regards

Praveen

Hi Praveen!

Here is a fyu things you could think about.:
- I'm not sure if its mater but try at with resistor free spark plug on both side.
I was able to get that circuit fire with plugs like that.
- On my mover i have a coil and two magnet on the flywheel so I guess it's sparks twice rapidly one after a another, if your bike has that kind of ignition that may be a problem. I don't know because never tried that circuit with the mover.
- Your primary is the one with 12 turns, the secondary is the mag wire with 32.
Always the primary coil gets energized first than the secondary from the primary's magnetic field.
 8)
Hope it's helps!

Offline bwb

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  • Posts: 17
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #739 on: August 10, 2008, 04:19:18 AM »
@Xbox,

I've found a champion spark plug made for boats. ( L76V)... It is resistor-less, and it doesn't have a normal "J"
cathode.....It arcs in a 360 radius.. This may help if the plugs cathode is getting fried ????

Has anyone used one of these plugs???? ......I got mine from Wal-mart for $2.00 on clearance......

Let me know what you think....................

Mahalo Nui Loa



HV
  Testers can get non resistor spark plugs at this site for testing. http://www.summitracing.com/ :D

Offline peteroks

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  • Posts: 6
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #740 on: August 10, 2008, 05:34:22 AM »
Hi

Peter here,
New to this group ,i have been following progress keenly and have begun building a test unit that i will need help with, but for now I would like to give you all a good link that will i hope speed up the experimenting so that we can all drive around with just water in our tanks. See-- http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm .It seems to have very advanced circuitry ,and looks very promising-------------p :o

Offline xbox hacker

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #741 on: August 10, 2008, 06:02:19 AM »
Hi

Peter here,
New to this group ,i have been following progress keenly and have begun building a test unit that i will need help with, but for now I would like to give you all a good link that will i hope speed up the experimenting so that we can all drive around with just water in our tanks. See-- http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm .It seems to have very advanced circuitry ,and looks very promising-------------p :o

Yes it does...but someone had mentioned that it was like $20k...........LOL

Offline happyvalley808

  • Full Member
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  • Posts: 124
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #742 on: August 10, 2008, 06:42:03 AM »
Hi

Peter here,
New to this group ,i have been following progress keenly and have begun building a test unit that i will need help with, but for now I would like to give you all a good link that will i hope speed up the experimenting so that we can all drive around with just water in our tanks. See-- http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm .It seems to have very advanced circuitry ,and looks very promising-------------p :o


Peter,

Thanks for the link.

HV

Offline happyvalley808

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  • Posts: 124
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #743 on: August 10, 2008, 11:34:30 AM »
@All,

I just found these coils that attach to the top of each spark plug, there designed to make a plasma spark......AND it doesn;t cost $20K....LOL............Check it out..........http://subydriver.com/okadaprosp.html

Regards,

HV

Offline happyvalley808

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  • Posts: 124
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #744 on: August 10, 2008, 11:50:46 AM »
@All,

Check it out..........

http://subydriver.com/okadaprosp.html

Regards,

HV

Offline pvar06

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  • Posts: 9
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #745 on: August 10, 2008, 04:26:57 PM »
Hi Praveen!

Here is a fyu things you could think about.:
- I'm not sure if its mater but try at with resistor free spark plug on both side.
I was able to get that circuit fire with plugs like that.
- On my mover i have a coil and two magnet on the flywheel so I guess it's sparks twice rapidly one after a another, if your bike has that kind of ignition that may be a problem. I don't know because never tried that circuit with the mover.
- Your primary is the one with 12 turns, the secondary is the mag wire with 32.
Always the primary coil gets energized first than the secondary from the primary's magnetic field.
 8)
Hope it's helps!

Thanks for reply. Today again i have tried out my luck but ???. My parameters are as follows;

1. Primary with 12 turn tested out with 18 gauge copper plain insulated wire, 20 gauge enamel insulated copper wire, 18 gauge enamel insulated Aluminium wire. These test have been carried out by keeping the secondary with 32 turns Magnetic wire (16 gauge Aluminium with enamel insulation).

2. I have tested out all the combination of primary coil with 12 turns using 14 gauge copper enamel insulated copper wire in seconday with 32 turns.

3. Checked out both the spark plug and there was no resistance observed on multimeter.

4. The connection from the ignition coil taken out from the bike itself.

5. For testing the bike circuit supplied 40 volt AC to capacitor of bike (before ignition coil) and observed a weak spark when the coil circuit is removed. That mean at ignition coil side every thing is ok.

6. Supplied 230 volt AC with bulb in series at Primary to check the megnatic field in the secondary but did not observe any magnetic field there, also there was no reading on multimeter at secondary side.

With the above test it is clear that there is some problem in the coil winding. Shown the coil to transformer winder but he could not give any clue as this was a coil which he has seen first time in his life .. haha.

My analysis / obervations;

1. Is there any problem in the ferraite core, where i have wounded my coil?

2. Is the type of wire used for testing (Aluminium / Copper) are not of desired specificaitons? I have checked the wiki and as per the information provided there the Magnetic wire are Aluminium / Copper.

3. Or there may be some problem in the electronic component used in the circuit? As far as i know the component used by me are as per the specification given in the circuit.

I dont know what is happening. But wanted to see the huge spark, if not today then tommorrow. Enclosing herewith the picture of my coil.

Look forward some help on the above.

Regards

Praveen

Offline capacitor70

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #746 on: August 10, 2008, 04:57:40 PM »
@Praveen
    1. Which wire you are using for primary ?
        If it is red color aluminum wire with 12 Turns then it will not work.
    2. Which wire you are using for secondary ?
        If it is copper wire with 32 turns then it will not work.
    3. Give capacitor specifications.


Primary must be with copper wire 12 Turns
and secondary with thick insulation wire 32 to 50 turns range, increase secondary turns to 50 turns.

Some where I mentioned testing procedure read previous posts.

Offline xbox hacker

  • Sr. Member
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  • Posts: 262
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #747 on: August 10, 2008, 06:18:16 PM »
@pvar06:

This seems to be a similar problem i had when i first started using the coil setup....i couldnt get it to spark. It turns out that a very important key to getting my setup to work was the HV capacitor on the primary side!! I finally used a 500pF @ 6000V and it works every time...with every coil i have made!! I also have had much better luck with linear ferrite coils rather than toroidal style....but that is just my opinion! (and they are MUCH easier to wind!!)

Here are a few test steps that might help you and anyone else....

1.connect primary side components to transformer  coil, and connect secondary output to a spark plug.... One wire from the secondary to the top of the plug, and the other wire from the secondary to the base of the plug. (this setup will not have the DC) We are simple testing the spark on the secondary. You should see a "normal spark" on the secondary plug. Continue using this setup until you have successfully achieved a spark on the secondary plug. At that point, you can move on to adding the DC to the secondary.

2.Using the same setup from step 1....turn off all the lights and see if their is any arcing in you windings of your transformer coil. This will test for breaks in the enameled wire....you will see spark on the transformer itself.(this is a bad thing...lol)

3. I suggest using a adjustable gap tool for the primary side spark gap.


Offline pvar06

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  • Posts: 9
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #748 on: August 10, 2008, 09:50:29 PM »
@Praveen
    1. Which wire you are using for primary ?
        If it is red color aluminum wire with 12 Turns then it will not work.
    2. Which wire you are using for secondary ?
        If it is copper wire with 32 turns then it will not work.
    3. Give capacitor specifications.


Primary must be with copper wire 12 Turns
and secondary with thick insulation wire 32 to 50 turns range, increase secondary turns to 50 turns.

Some where I mentioned testing procedure read previous posts.

@Cap70

Thanks for your reply. The details are as follows:

1. The wire shown in the picture for primary is 18 gauge plain insulated copper wire. Normally used for house hold wiring. I had given 12 turn at primary.

2. For secondary, I have used 16 gauge Aluminium enamel insulated wire with 32 turns. This wire is normally used for big transformers like welding machine transformer.

3. Following capacitors have been used in the circuit.
   
    a. 300 uF 400 Volt Aluminium Capacitor
    b. 2.2 nF 2000 Volt, 16 KHz
    c. 3.9 nF 2000 Volt, Vishay Make - MKP Type, 1841-75 series, Frequency rating not mentioned     
        on capacitor.
    d. 7.5 nF 2000 Volt, Vishay make, MKP Type, 1841-75 series, Frequency rating not mentioned     
        on capacitor.

As I know the 7.5 nF capacitor is normally used in Television sets on Flyback Transformer circuit. I am sensing some problem in the capacitor rating. Now searching the web site of Vishay and will find out the same. I would be gald if you can give the part number and make of these capacitors.

As suggested i will also try out the circuit by increasing the number of turns on secondary with the Aluminium wire having enamel insulation. What do you mean by thick insulation?

Thanks again for reply as this has given me some hints to test further and i know soon i will acheive it.

Regards

Praveen

Offline pvar06

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  • Posts: 9
Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #749 on: August 10, 2008, 10:34:53 PM »
@pvar06:

This seems to be a similar problem i had when i first started using the coil setup....i couldnt get it to spark. It turns out that a very important key to getting my setup to work was the HV capacitor on the primary side!! I finally used a 500pF @ 6000V and it works every time...with every coil i have made!! I also have had much better luck with linear ferrite coils rather than toroidal style....but that is just my opinion! (and they are MUCH easier to wind!!)

Here are a few test steps that might help you and anyone else....

1.connect primary side components to transformer  coil, and connect secondary output to a spark plug.... One wire from the secondary to the top of the plug, and the other wire from the secondary to the base of the plug. (this setup will not have the DC) We are simple testing the spark on the secondary. You should see a "normal spark" on the secondary plug. Continue using this setup until you have successfully achieved a spark on the secondary plug. At that point, you can move on to adding the DC to the secondary.

2.Using the same setup from step 1....turn off all the lights and see if their is any arcing in you windings of your transformer coil. This will test for breaks in the enameled wire....you will see spark on the transformer itself.(this is a bad thing...lol)

3. I suggest using a adjustable gap tool for the primary side spark gap.



@Xbox

Thanks for your reply.

You mean to say that you are using only one capacitor on primary side i.e. 500 pF @ 6000 V in place of three capacitor shown in Cap70 circuit? Is that AC or DC capacitor? Can you give me the part number and make?

Tommorrow i will source these capacitor also along with other capacitors, which Cap70 has suggested. Then i will test out the circuit and will let you know.

Fortunately i have one old radio where a linear ferrite coil is available. So it will be a nice idea to test this out too.

Thanks for the test steps. That will be a gr8 help. Can i know what transformer you are referring to? Is that normal 12 volt to 230 / 110 volt transformer?

You have mentioned about using the adjustable spark gap tool at primary side. I think you are referring to secondary side i.e. DC side. Is that correct?

With yours and Cap70 inputs, i think i will be soon reaching to stage of testing the plasma spark for various other tests like pressure test, Hydroxy test, Tero plug etc etc.

With best regards

Praveen