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(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
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Author Topic: Hydrosonic Pump  (Read 134913 times)

Offline idnick

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2006, 12:30:05 AM »
Hi Art

I am going to try to send a pic. of the Griggs Hydrosonic Pump that I replicated. Take note of the automotive seal I used. I've turned this unit at 3450 RPM but for my application 1725 is plenty fast to produce high temps (I shut it off at 240 degrees) and steam.  Rotor is 8 5/8" No problem with leakage.  If photo comes through, I'll send Stephan pics from start to finish. Rotor is about half impressive, even if I say so myself

Dave

Don't know much about sending pictures, but here goes..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2006, 12:30:05 AM »

Offline rapttor

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2006, 02:09:56 AM »
@Idnick

Very nice! Automotive type seal.. meaning that you used something in the 62022-23 series? Who did the machining? It's nice work. If you don't mind me asking, for the tube section & rotor.. did you use standard steel pipe & alum / steel or something else that's corrosion resistant? I'm going to take some pictures tonight to show my build, but I'm already working on the next sized unit, which will be a 5.25 billet al rotor with a cast iron section of pipe for the outer housing. Thanks for sharing, and I'd love to see the other pics of the build if you can post them up.
@Mike, thanks for the calculations and insight on the inside aspects of this cool device, and the mention of the other options that I have, which can be easily overlooked if you're only seeing things from one set of eyes...

@AllCanadian, I like the sounds of the graphite seals, I've got a plumbers supply house 15mins away which I use for my steam stuff on my home furnace, I think I'll take a ride tomorrow... thanks a bunch for the info.

-regards,
Art

Offline idnick

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2006, 02:35:37 AM »
 @Mike

I just went down to Napa and ask for a seal that fit a 5/8 shaft. Outside was about a 1.33 in. A friend gave me a 6 foot length of stainless pipe. 3/16" thickness.  That is the tube. The rotor is alumium. I built a furnace and burner to smelt the rotor because of the price. (8"X12" round was 586.00) Couldn't afford that.  I did all of the machining myself.
 Looking forward to seeing your project also, and thanks for the compliment.

Dave


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2006, 02:35:37 AM »
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Offline idnick

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2006, 02:42:55 AM »
 @Mike

Here's another look at the inside

Dave

Offline idnick

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2006, 03:03:22 AM »
Hi all

Don't know why I put @ mike on these pics.  Their're for everyone, enjoy
I also spelled Stefans name wrong in the first post. He probably won't speak to me forever ;D

Dave

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2006, 03:03:22 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2006, 11:59:51 PM »
Hey idnick
I think grigg had a wavey outer casing, that is the clearance changed so as the holes in the rotor came around the water in them was compressed then decompressed very rapidly.

Offline idnick

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 04:58:14 AM »
@ allcanadian

You might be right about that, but the way I read it the outer case could have a smooth or rough interior. I choosed smooth cause I don't know what kind of mess i'd have ended up with  ;D. But thanks for pointing it out. Things can get overlooked, especially for old guys like me :(   Thanks for the input

Dave

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 04:58:14 AM »
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Offline idnick

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2006, 05:04:32 AM »
 allcanadian
I believe it's all in them holes in the rotor that causes the hydrosonics.  Takes forever to masure, mark and drill em.  :(

Dave

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2006, 08:25:41 AM »
Hello idnick
This is what I thought Griggs meant, as well the yusmar seems to use the same principal called sonoluminescence.
In my bad picture, as the rotor turns a hole in the rotor approaches an inward "bump"(2) this compresses the fluid in the hole as designated by red dots, the hole then moves past the bump and decompresses as designated by blue dots(1). The magic seems to appear when the frequency of compression/decompression (RPM) is very high, that is why griggs used hundreds of holes, to lower the rotor RPM to managable levels.
The effect they say is based on cavitation or what we know as water hammer, only griggs found it more pronounced at ultrasonic frequencies near 24,000 Hz I believe, google ultrasonic frequencies to get the right number. If you take the number of holes on the circumference of the rotor in one line times RPM divided by 60 you get the number of compressions per second/per hole.Then times this by the number of bumps on the casing for total compressions per second, this is compression cycles/sec equivalent to frequency cycles per second, so 24,000 compressions/second is huge!
This is why I though the yusmar was much easier to build, It can be done your way though I think, and your a much better man than me if you can do it, best regards and please keep us updated.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2006, 08:25:41 AM »
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Offline rapttor

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2006, 02:57:03 PM »
@AllCanadian

Wow, this would mean that it can work better? damn, I thought on my first replication attempt,  I was pretty suprised how quickly I got hot water. I don't recall when watching videos of it, that when I saw the scene where they are installing the rotor, it appears to be a smooth bore. huh... very interesting sir, thanks for sharing.

-art

Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2006, 06:29:36 PM »
@Mike

I just went down to Napa and ask for a seal that fit a 5/8 shaft. Outside was about a 1.33 in. A friend gave me a 6 foot length of stainless pipe. 3/16" thickness.  That is the tube. The rotor is alumium. I built a furnace and burner to smelt the rotor because of the price. (8"X12" round was 586.00) Couldn't afford that.  I did all of the machining myself.
 Looking forward to seeing your project also, and thanks for the compliment.

Dave


Nice work. The effect is based on the relative speed of the rotor surface vs the stator (case) surface, the more holes the higher the frequency of cavitations per one revolution.
Going back to raptor's search for seals, with lower input shaft rpm you can get away with a regular automotive pump seal, assuming it can handle the pressures of 75 psi as raptor was specifying earlier.
Temperature wise, it's close.. Not sure if the car water pump can handle 350 F.
The radiator pressure relief caps are rated about 7psi you can get them as high as 18-20 psi for higher operating temperatures.
So a pump seal doesn?t see more than 20 psi on high end applications with normal operation of less than that. Also, the rotational speed of a car pump is nowhere near 15000 rpm.
In designing any system we need to account for the worst case scenarios based on the specifications and add some factros of safety to assure longevity :)
However; it is a great suggestion for proof of concept assuming it doesn't blow out too fast.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2006, 06:29:36 PM »
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Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2006, 06:36:19 PM »
Hello idnick
This is what I thought Griggs meant, as well the yusmar seems to use the same principal called sonoluminescence.
In my bad picture, as the rotor turns a hole in the rotor approaches an inward "bump"(2) this compresses the fluid in the hole as designated by red dots, the hole then moves past the bump and decompresses as designated by blue dots(1). The magic seems to appear when the frequency of compression/decompression (RPM) is very high, that is why griggs used hundreds of holes, to lower the rotor RPM to managable levels.
The effect they say is based on cavitation or what we know as water hammer, only griggs found it more pronounced at ultrasonic frequencies near 24,000 Hz I believe, google ultrasonic frequencies to get the right number. If you take the number of holes on the circumference of the rotor in one line times RPM divided by 60 you get the number of compressions per second/per hole.Then times this by the number of bumps on the casing for total compressions per second, this is compression cycles/sec equivalent to frequency cycles per second, so 24,000 compressions/second is huge!
This is why I though the yusmar was much easier to build, It can be done your way though I think, and your a much better man than me if you can do it, best regards and please keep us updated.

Yes!. Nice. The more ridges on the case, and the more holes on the drum (per circumference) the higher the frequency. It basically creates a high pressure/vacuum impulse oscillation as each cavity passes by the ridge.
Mentioning of Sonoluminescence. Some interesting refs on frequencies.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1095.0.html

Good work folks.


Offline idnick

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2006, 05:12:59 AM »
Hi all:
I found this kinda interesting also. Check out link below. Take note that there's no ridges inside this clear cylinder.
   NASA engineers solved a design problem with Hydro Dynamics' rotor for use in the Hydrosonic Pump.TM The holes in the rotor produce microscopic bubbles, preventing the buildup of impurities (scale).
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Cavitation_Heaters
Dave

Offline kukulcangod

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2006, 08:50:26 AM »
Incredible job ........I wanted to make one for experimenting but the information in here is saving all of that thank you for sharing your findings
 Now let me share and suggest something as well......How about pairing this system with a tesla rotor?? and an efficient generator?

 Can someone help me out to make the calculations to make such system a reality?
 if I'm right a small apt needs about 30kilowatts to be independent forgive me if I'm wrong I'm not good at conversions,
 what size such system will need to be?  ???
I think we can make a closed system ........will it be possible??
It seems that the tesla turbine can be simple enough to build and small enough just take a look at this fascinating website a lot of work has been put in it :

http://phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/home.htm

Please don't forget about me let me know of the calcualtions needed ;)

Offline buzneg

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2006, 03:12:27 AM »
The average household uses about 5kW per hour

 

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