Author Topic: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory (Read 2185825 times)

ltseung888 · « **Reply #450 on:** October 07, 2007, 07:17:35 AM »

Quote from: Mr.Entropy on October 07, 2007, 05:16:32 AM

w.r.t shrugged's toy, in its intended mode of operation:

During the application of the pulse force, even though it is of short duration, the entirety of the kinetic energy from one pendulum is transferred to another. A CoP of 1.5 would, therefore, see the second pendulum with 50% more energy than the first. Why is this not the case?

Mr. Entropy,

With your participation, we hope the discussions will be more in line with known Physics concepts. Let me describe the intended mode of operation first.

Mode 1: Move One Pendulum to a position on the LHS, keeping the strings tight and leave the other four pendulums in the vertical position. I shall called them A,B,C,D,E for ease of description. A is the pendulum on the LHS. When A is let go, it will collide with the 4 stationary pendulums (B,C,D,E). After the collision, A will be stationary; E will swing to approximately the same mirror position as A on the RHS. On swinging back, E will collide with the 4 stationary pendulums (D,C,B,A). After collision E will be stationary, A will swing to approximately its original position (minus a little bit because of air resistance and other losses).

I shall pause for your reply. In this way, we can proceed slowly but surely. Yell if you do not agree with any of the statements.

(to be continued)

Lawrence Tseung
Participation of Mr. Entropy Leads Out discussions based on known Physics Laws.

jeffc · « **Reply #451 on:** October 07, 2007, 08:36:58 AM »

Quote from: shruggedatlas on October 06, 2007, 08:38:05 PM

Quote from: ltseung888 on October 06, 2007, 06:03:11 PM

I shall ask for the opinion of the other forum members whether I should repeat the correct interpretation of the Lee-Tseung theory again here.

Are you the only one who does not understand it? Your use of the multiple pendulum to "prove or disprove" the Lee-Tseung theory demonstrated some "non-thorough" understanding of the Lee-Tseung theory.

May be it is better for someone who understand the Lee-Tseung theory to post a reply to you.

Edited to add:

(1) May be it is a good time to ask the members whether they think your pendulum toy experiment can be used to "prove or disprove" the Lee-Tseung Theory?

(2) Whether a two pendulum swing necessarily has higher efficiency than a one pendulum swing according to the Lee-Tseung theory?

(3) Are there better experiments that can prove or disprove the Lee-Tseung Theory conclusively and settle the issue forever?

Lawrence

Good luck getting answers on that one. Why don't you just answer #3 yourself and post the results, preferably a video along with explicit instructions on how to replicate. Your powerpoint presentations of still pictures are not very convincing. Oh wait, you are not "good with tools," right, so there is nothing you can do, right?

I wish you would not hide behind your age. My father is your age, if not older, and he is still very active. You do not seem disabled in any way. The tenets of your theory would not require anything complicated. Put your theory to use and show us something, or we will conclude you are a simple con man.

By the way, what are your credentials? You consider me unqualified because I am a lawyer, but most of us are hobbyists here. Where did you study and what professional work have you performed in the real world?

Valid points, indeed.

Regards,
jeffc

jeffc · « **Reply #452 on:** October 07, 2007, 08:47:04 AM »

Quote from: ltseung888 on October 07, 2007, 02:57:51 AM

Quote from: shruggedatlas on October 06, 2007, 08:38:05 PM

.....

By the way, what are your credentials? You consider me unqualified because I am a lawyer, but most of us are hobbyists here. Where did you study and what professional work have you performed in the real world?

Dear Lawyer shruggedatlas,

I shall answer this question first. If you had the time and patience searching the Steorn Forum, you could have found the answer.

But since I do not have the patience to search it myself, I am going to reproduce it here for you.

(1)   B.Sc. Physics, Leeds University, England (Date omitted but you can check)
(2)   M.Sc. Aeronautics, Southampton University, England (Date omitted)
(3)   Two Granted US patents on Guaranteed Reliable Broadcast used on Internet. (you can search the US patent database using Lawrence C. N. Tseung as inventor.)
(4)   Quoted in Prof Andrew Tenanbaum?s Book on Network Operating Systems as one of the important contributors in this field (Internet).
(5)   International Software Manager for Digital Equipment Corporation, once the number one minicomputer company and the Number 2 Computer Company after IBM.
(6)   Wrote the first Email program using DECnet in the 1970s on the PDP-11.
(7)   Taught the first group of Chinese Computer Engineers in 1980 on RSX11M and DECnet. Invited as guest lecturer to Beijing to talk about Networks.
(8 )   After retirement, took up the M.Sc. research on Using Kinetic Theory of Gases to explain Lift and Drag. Presented at the Aeronautics University of Beijing in 2004. That was the start of the Energy from Still Air invention.
(9)   Focusing on Cosmic Energy Inventions since 2004. That was the start of the Lee-Tseung Theory. Many pending patents ? now donated to the Chinese People.
(10)   Present ? Benefit the world with Cosmic Energy Machines and the Flying Saucer (Lee manage the China and Japan area, Tseung the rest of the World.)

Lawrence Tseung
Relevant Question Leads Out the qualification of Tseung as a trained Physicist.

These should be easy enough to validate I would think. Thank you Lawrence.

tinu · « **Reply #453 on:** October 07, 2007, 11:22:15 AM »

Quote from: ltseung888 on October 07, 2007, 04:47:55 AM

@Tinu
Quote
Shruggedatlas is right.
Suffice to lower the amplitude of two colliding pendulum and voila, the ratio of pulse duration over the swing duration increases, hence the significance of pulsed force increases.

One important fact in Physics with pendulums is that the period is independent of amplitude. In Layman terms, the time taken for one complete swing is the same. The swinging arc (amplitude) can be higher or lower. The above supporting statement from tinu seems to violate this fact in Physics.

You know well that the formula (period independent of amplitude) is just an approximation, valid for very small angles.
In practice always an increase of frequency over time is measured. This is a simple experiment, I am sure Ms. Forever can do it for you, if needed.

Tinu
?Use of approximations and incorrect equations does not Lead Out Gravitational Energy.?

ltseung888 · « **Reply #454 on:** October 07, 2007, 04:34:31 PM »

In Mode 1: (singl pendulum swing in intended mode)

Step 1 ? Pendulum A was pulled to the LHS.

This can be done by a horizontal force (pulse or no pulse) Fp. Energy enters the Pendulum A system by the Integral (Fr dot ds) from vertical stationary lowest point position to maximum LHS position. Fr is the resultant force at any time on the Bob of Pendulum A; ds is the displacement at the corresponding time; dot denotes vector mathematics. This integral is a result of work = Force x Displacement. Fr may vary at the different displacement points ds. If we know the exact shape of the Fr function, we should be able to calculate the integral. It does not matter whether the Pendulum Bob is accelerating, deceleration, stationary or in motion.

In this part, we can indeed apply the mathematics of the Lead Out Theory. The Horizontal Force Fp, the Weight of the Bob Fg and the Tension of the String Fs will all have influence on the Bob. These three forces will form the resultant force Fr.

The Resultant Force Fr at the starting position before the application of the horizontal force is 0. Fg=Fs.

The Resultant Force Fr at the ending position (maximum LHS) before the release of the horizontal force is also zero. Fg dot Fp = Fs (Three forces at Equilibrium).

The Energy imparted or provided to the Pendulum A system at this point (first pulse) is the sum of (the horizontal energy Fp x horizontal displacement + Fg x Vertical displacement.) The relationship between these two energies is roughly 2 parts horizontal to 1 part vertical. This is the Lee-Tseung Lead Out theory.

(to be continued)

Lawrence Tseung
First Pulse on the toy is pulling Pendulum A to the LHS. This Leads Out gravitational energy.

Mr.Entropy · « **Reply #455 on:** October 08, 2007, 12:56:25 AM »

Quote from: ltseung888 on October 07, 2007, 04:34:31 PM

The Energy impacted at this point (first pulse) is the sum of (the horizontal energy Fp x horizontal displacement + Fg x Vertical displacement.) The relationship between these two energies is roughly 2 parts horizontal to 1 part vertical. This is the Lee-Tseung Lead Out theory.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "impacted", but no. The energy you've put in is Fp x horizontal displacement OR -Fg x vertical displacement, i.e., you don't add them, because they are different ways of measuring essentially the same thing. The Fp x horizontal displacement is you spending energy. The Fg x vertical displacement is the pendulum storing that energy. If you do add them, you'll get zero, since Fg x vertical displacement is negative -- the push is down, but the motion is up!

ltseung888 · « **Reply #456 on:** October 08, 2007, 02:24:53 AM »

Quote from: Mr.Entropy on October 08, 2007, 12:56:25 AM

Quote from: ltseung888 on October 07, 2007, 04:34:31 PM
The Energy imparted or provided to the Pendulum A system at this point (first pulse) is the sum of (the horizontal energy Fp x horizontal displacement + Fg x Vertical displacement.) The relationship between these two energies is roughly 2 parts horizontal to 1 part vertical. This is the Lee-Tseung Lead Out theory.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "impacted", but no. The energy you've put in is Fp x horizontal displacement OR -Fg x vertical displacement, i.e., you don't add them, because they are different ways of measuring essentially the same thing. The Fp x horizontal displacement is you spending energy. The Fg x vertical displacement is the pendulum storing that energy. If you do add them, you'll get zero, since Fg x vertical displacement is negative -- the push is down, but the motion is up!

Dear Mr. Entropy,

Thank you for your reply. You should be proud of your reply. It was the same as one of the top professors at Harvard University in early 2005.

He said that we double accounted the energy terms. His reasoning was basically similar to yours.

I shall pause for a day or so. I shall dig up the notes on how Professor Woo, the Chinese Scientist who helped to create the Chinese Atomic Bomb, answered this issue.

I am glad that the discussions are getting more and more scientific now. Thanks to jeffc.

Lawrence Tseung
Intelligent thinking Leads Out question of double accounting.

ltseung888 · « **Reply #457 on:** October 08, 2007, 09:33:59 AM »

Quote

My notes from early 2005 ? things may have changed since then.

Prof H: ?I believe you might have done double accounting. In the pendulum example with a horizontal force, the vertical energy gained is supplied by the horizontal force. This is the Law of CoE.?

Prof Woo: ?But the two components (vertical and horizontal) of the Integral (Fr dot ds) from vertical position to maximum LHS position do not have to be equal mathematically. If the two quantities are different, there could not be double accounting.?

Prof H: ?If they are not equal, then energy must come from somewhere. If we consider the simple pendulum with a horizontal force as a closed system, there is no external energy supply. The Law of CoE demands that these two terms must be equal.?

Prof Woo: ?I have been thinking about this for the last few months. We all accept that the pendulum in the new-elevated position before swinging has potential energy equal to mgh. However, it also has moved horizontally. That displacement must require energy, as there is tension in the string countering the movement. I believe the vertical and horizontal energy terms should be added. They are different and there is no double accounting.?

Prof H: ?If gravitational energy can be Lead Out by the simple pulsed pendulum, it will rewrite all textbooks. I need working, demonstrated prototypes in our hands before we discuss this topic further.?

Prof Woo: ?I have the Lee-Tseung theory and patent application information. They claimed that pulsed oscillation could lead out gravitational energy. They quoted a Dr. Liang Xingren Car that used ICs to pulse rotate a cylinder to Lead Out Gravitational Energy. I met Dr. Liang and drove the car myself. I am satisfied that the car did not use any conventional energy supply. I could not explain the source of energy for the Liang Car. The Lee-Tseung theory could explain it. This is the reason I am here.?

Prof H: ?Are you saying that the CoE law has been broken and can be verified totally? We have to be extremely careful with such statements. Let us have more evidence and working demonstrations in our hands before we do anything.?

(Prof Woo since then has been working on a Pulse Device with his team.)

Dear Mr. Entropy,

So you see that a top professor at Harvard University has the similar concern and mental attitude as you. Unless he has a working prototype in his hands, he will not discuss the issue further. If he accepts the Lead Out theory without absolute and undisputable proof, he would put his reputation and possibly the entire Harvard University Reputation at stake.

The fortunate thing is ? there are many working prototypes already - some inside China and some outside China.

I shall finish discussing the desk pendulum toy first before focusing on the working prototypes. If there are issues we do not agree on, we just lay them out in the open and deal with them later. (May be after a working prototype is in your hands.)

Scientific Progress and Benefits to the World does not need to stop if we do not agree!

(to be continued)

Lawrence Tseung
Even a top professor needs a working model in his hand to Lead Out further discussion of Cosmic Energy Machines.

ltseung888 · « **Reply #458 on:** October 08, 2007, 10:49:15 AM »

In Mode 1 : (singl pendulum swing in intended mode)

Step 2 ? Pendulum A was released from the LHS.

Pendulum A now swings back from the maximum displacement position on the LHS and gets ready to collide with pendulums B,C,D,E.

No horizontal force is applied during this step. Thus no gravitational energy is lead out. The same Integral can be used - Integral (Fr dot ds). The starting position is Pendulum A at the maximum displaced point on the LHS and the ending position is just before collision.

Fr is the resultant force at any time on the Bob of Pendulum A; ds is the displacement at the corresponding time; dot denotes vector mathematics. This integral is a result of work = Force x Displacement. Fr may vary at the different displacement points ds. If we know the exact shape of the Fr function, we should be able to calculate the integral. It does not matter whether the Pendulum Bob is accelerating, deceleration, stationary or in motion.

In this step, there are only two forces on Pendulum A. They are Force due to Weight Fg and Force due to Tension of the String Fs. Pendulum A will swing faster in a circular motion. If there were no friction or air resistance, the total energy acquired by Pendulum A (Etotal) remains unchanged. However, Pendulum A acquires its maximum velocity just before collision. Both the CoE and the Lee-Tseung predict and agree on this.

Lawrence Tseung
Agreement at this step Leads Out faster pace.

ltseung888 · « **Reply #459 on:** October 08, 2007, 11:10:30 AM »

In Mode 1 : (single pendulum swing in intended mode)

Step 3 ? Pendulum A collides with Pendulums B,C,D,E and imparts or transfers its energy totally to Pendulum E assuming negligible loss due to sound and heat.

This collision step is the one that may cause confusion. Some readers want to consider this as a Pulse Force as defined in the Lee-Tseung theory. However, this collision force does not involve any gradual change in the tension of the string to do work or to Lead Out Gravitational Energy. It is more like an Energy Transfer process as mentioned by Mr. Entropy. The total energy of Pendulum A is transferred to Pendulum E. Pendulum E can be thought of as the replication of Pendulum A. (If there were no Pendulums B,C,D,E, Pendulum A will continue swinging. Now Pendulum E swings instead of Pendulum A.)

Such a collision is not considered a Pulse Force as required in the Lee-Tseung Theory. It is only an energy transfer process. No gravitational force will be Lead Out.

Lawrence Tseung
A Collision Process can be an Energy Transfer Process. It is not a Pulse Force that Leads Out Gravitational Energy.

ltseung888 · « **Reply #460 on:** October 08, 2007, 11:52:04 AM »

In Mode 1 : (single pendulum swing in intended mode)

Step 4 ? Pendulum E acquires the Energy of Pendulum A and swings to the RHS. The circular motion slows down until it is at the maximum displaced position on the RHS.

No horizontal force is applied during this step. Thus no gravitational energy is lead out. The same Integral can be used - Integral (Fr dot ds). The starting position is Pendulum E at the lowest point and the ending position is the maximum displaced position on the RHS.

Fr is the resultant force at any time on the Bob of Pendulum A; ds is the displacement at the corresponding time; dot denotes vector mathematics. This integral is a result of work = Force x Displacement. Fr may vary at the different displacement points ds. If we know the exact shape of the Fr function, we should be able to calculate the integral. It does not matter whether the Pendulum Bob is accelerating, deceleration, stationary or in motion.

In this step, there are only two forces on Pendulum A. They are Force due to Weight Fg and Force due to Tension of the String Fs. Pendulum A will swing slower in a circular motion. If there were no friction or air resistance, the total energy acquired by Pendulum E from Pendulum A (Etotal) remains unchanged. Both the CoE and the Lee-Tseung predict and agree on this.

Quote

In the Lee-Tseung Theory, the best time to apply another Pulse Force is when Pendulum E is at its maximum displaced position. The highest CoP is achieved not by a horizontal force but by a force tangential to the just stopped circular motion.

When Pendulum E stops to change direction, a Pulse Force can be applied as stated above. This will further increase the Tension of the String. Three Forces Fg, Fs and Fp are once more at work. Gravitational Energy is again Lead Out.

When Gravitational Energy is Lead Out, the maximum displaced position of Pendulum E increases. Both the additional Pulsed Energy and the Lead Out Gravitational Energy enter the Pendulum E system.

This is one way of producing the resonance condition as required in the Lee-Tseung Theory.

Lawrence Tseung
Pulling Pendulum E at its highest RHS position Leads Out resonance condition.

tinu · « **Reply #461 on:** October 08, 2007, 12:03:06 PM »

Quote from: ltseung888 on October 08, 2007, 11:10:30 AM

Such a collision is not considered a Pulse Force as required in the Lee-Tseung Theory. It is only an energy transfer process. No gravitational force will be Lead Out.

Lawrence Tseung
A Collision Process can be an Energy Transfer Process. It is not a Pulse Force that Leads Out Gravitational Energy.

Finally, that?s a major conclusion!
It was about the right time for you to admit it.

It would be nice the agenda further includes a clear example of a Pulse Force as required by the Lee-Tseung Theory followed by a full mathematical analysis.

Tinu

shruggedatlas · « **Reply #462 on:** October 08, 2007, 04:39:15 PM »

Quote from: ltseung888 on October 08, 2007, 11:10:30 AM

Such a collision is not considered a Pulse Force as required in the Lee-Tseung Theory. It is only an energy transfer process. No gravitational force will be Lead Out.

Lawrence Tseung
A Collision Process can be an Energy Transfer Process. It is not a Pulse Force that Leads Out Gravitational Energy.

What is the difference between a pulse force and a mere energy transfer process? ANY physical application of pulse force is also an energy transfer process (I won't speculate about magentism here, because I am not knowledgable). What more is required beyond a transfer of energy? You yourself proudly cite an example where you punch a punching bag a few times, and then are surprised by the knock-back force. You claim this knock-back force is an example of lead out energy at work. Why do your few punches lead out energy, but my few pendulum knocks do not?

It appears that make an arbitrary differentiation here but not in other situations in order to prevent my experiment from invalidating your theory.

ltseung888 · « **Reply #463 on:** October 08, 2007, 06:16:53 PM »

Quote from: shruggedatlas on October 08, 2007, 04:39:15 PM

Quote from: ltseung888 on October 08, 2007, 11:10:30 AM

Such a collision is not considered a Pulse Force as required in the Lee-Tseung Theory. It is only an energy transfer process. No gravitational force will be Lead Out.

Lawrence Tseung
A Collision Process can be an Energy Transfer Process. It is not a Pulse Force that Leads Out Gravitational Energy.

What is the difference between a pulse force and a mere energy transfer process? ANY physical application of pulse force is also an energy transfer process (I won't speculate about magentism here, because I am not knowledgable). What more is required beyond a transfer of energy? You yourself proudly cite an example where you punch a punching bag a few times,(*** Please note that I used the word push and not punch) and then are surprised by the knock-back force. You claim this knock-back force is an example of lead out energy at work. Why do your few punches lead out energy, but my few pendulum knocks do not?

It appears that make an arbitrary differentiation here but not in other situations in order to prevent my experiment from invalidating your theory.

Dear Lawyer shruggedatlas,

Please note the seemingly innocent use of the word punch instead of push changes the physical process totally.

May be Mr. Entropy can enlighten you more.

tinu · « **Reply #464 on:** October 08, 2007, 06:26:29 PM »

It may follow another 30 pages from your side of ?Push/Punch Forces Leading Out Gravitational Energy? but take good care.

Once you admitted that pulse force is not of any good, the path ahead is very short, Mr. Tseung.

Tinu

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