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Author Topic: Source of energy, Testatika  (Read 205724 times)

Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #150 on: November 27, 2012, 08:26:17 PM »
That is interesting, though unfortunately I can hardly find anything about the Ampere Bridge.


... However this brought me somehow to particle accelerators, "Linear acceleration", based on high frequency and Van-De-Graph accelerators (see Wikipedia for that, e.g. german pages like http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearbeschleuniger or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van-de-Graaff-Beschleuniger for a start. Honestly the phrases of electrostatics, vacuum tube, ions acceleration reminds me of Testatika or the Edwin Gray Tube. That's probably part of the solution of the Testatika and what happens inside the tubes.... though not trivial to build in a home experiment :|

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #150 on: November 27, 2012, 08:26:17 PM »

Offline mikewatson

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #151 on: November 28, 2012, 02:04:26 PM »
The original ampere bridge consists of two long parallel mercury filled troughs next to each other. One trough is connected to + pole of a electric power source and the other to the minus pole. Floating on top of the mercury is a U shaped  piece of wire forming a bridge between each trough. The wire ends of the U are bent 90 degrees horizontally so it floats on the mercury troughs with the U shaped bridge part upright and the horizontal limbs floating on the mercury.  The U shaped bridge moves horizontally along the troughs when electric current flows.
Marinov's version was circular with the mercury in the form of two circular troughs and several U shaped pieces with limps in the mercury mounted on a central shaft that rotated. Attached is page from Deutche Physik Vol 1, Number 3, 1992 on the ampere bridge. Later Pappas indisputably proved that the Ampere Bridge in either form did not violate the law of conservation of angular momentum.


Mike




Offline mikewatson

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #152 on: December 02, 2012, 12:59:07 PM »
Here is a example in the attached pdf file of radium emanation intensifying radio signals. Various people have mentioned in patents etc that the presence of copper oxide on the various wires helps the transformation process. A number of the early researchers in this field such as Moray, Hubbard and probably Hendershott used radium.
In the attached file, the strange thing is the directional nature of the influence of radium emanation on the antenna.
Wm. Barker in US patent 4,961,880 maintains that high potential gradients modify beta and alpha decay rate.


Mike
 


 

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #152 on: December 02, 2012, 12:59:07 PM »
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Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #153 on: December 04, 2012, 06:31:23 PM »
I really don't think they used radium.

Offline wings

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #154 on: December 05, 2012, 10:23:13 PM »
take a look to this .... familiar ??? ??? ?

Karl Hans Janke - The German "Nikola Tesla" ??? ?

Karl Hans Joachim Janke  (21. August 1909 in , Pommern; † 15. Februar 1988 in  Wermsdorf


 
before  Paul  Baumann?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Hans_Janke

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #154 on: December 05, 2012, 10:23:13 PM »
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Offline wings

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #155 on: December 05, 2012, 11:22:16 PM »
take a look to this .... familiar ??? ??? ?


Offline mikewatson

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #156 on: December 06, 2012, 12:45:31 PM »
I believe Janke took over the Schloss in Aurolzmünster after the death of Karl Schappeller.  Janke like Schappeller and also Rudolph Steiner believed in the existence of a “vital force” that had the property of building up order from relative disorder, the so called Urkraft.  This contrasts to ordinary physical forces than run down from an ordered state to a disordered state. This “building up” force is the source of life on this planet. Every time a seed is planted in the ground this vital energy is tapped.
Janke founded or lead the Reich Arbeits Gemeinschaft (RAG)  which was a society with the aim of  exploiting this vital force, which was called “vril”. All this is documented in Der Vril Mythos by Peter Bahn and Heiner Gehring, Omega Verlag 1997. Davson in his book on Schappeller physics called this Vril force Primary Energy.
A significant point is that Baumann was around when Schappeller was alive and was not far from Austria so would almost definitely have known about Schappeller.
Certainly Schappeller said he was using an energy that naturally itself built up, used by all living matter. This seems close to Baumann's religous ideas and a true free energy.
Mike


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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #156 on: December 06, 2012, 12:45:31 PM »
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Offline Shanti

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #157 on: December 16, 2012, 09:34:12 AM »
Quote
I wonder which shops (in Europe) sell metal sheets with such small quadratic holes. Most of the shops I found have a smallest hole size of 4mm...


Try www.modulor.de. They have quite some of this stuff.


@mike:
I think you're mixing up the persons. Janke certainly never had anything to do with Schappeller (wrong country).
The person you meant was Johannes Janik, not Janke.


It's certainly quite hard to tell, if there's some truth to Janke's stuff or not. Certain ideas are certainly purely ridiculous (e.g. that one shouldn't build skyscrapers, for the ground cannot support them and they would fall down into the earth...)
Some of his ideas are on the other hand quite straight forward, but a bit strange in concept. E.g. when he writes, that there are "streets" in the solar system with oxygen and hydrogen atoms, and that one could use them to burn them and get so a propulsion in space.
Other views about the solar system show great similarities to plasma cosmology. We do know, that Janke read a lot. So maybe he also read some of Alfvén's stuff???




Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #158 on: December 16, 2012, 11:38:54 AM »
Thanks, this shop seems to have exactly the kind of aluminium mesh I need  :)

Besides, has anyone tried to get the perpetual motion of the Testatika done? This is not not about the output power of the Testatika, but about getting the disc to rotate without any power source. Wouldn't it be nice to have a self rotating disc when experimenting with electrostatics?

Now my consideration is the following: I have observed that when creating the potential difference between 2 electrodes the brushes do NOT touch the disc segments at all. Electrons are obviously "jumping" over a small distance if the influence from the metal sheet below the segment is strong enough. Based on this and the fact that you can drive a disc by the laws of electrostatic attraction and repulsion (e.g. here) it should theoretically be possible to achieve a self-runner.

I came up with some sketches as seen below. The first phase is to test if a charged ruler behind the segment is strong enough to suck in electrons from the grounding and charge the segments up (manually rotating the disc). If it does, then we might have won.
(Sorry, for the second part being german, I stopped translating it as it made no sense for I didn't tried it out yet, also some logical errors might appear which can only be seen while experimenting. You get the idea though, the inner segments are for driving the disc, the outer segments to create the voltage).

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #158 on: December 16, 2012, 11:38:54 AM »
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Offline Shanti

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #159 on: December 16, 2012, 01:05:04 PM »
You will never get a self runner like that. The mechanical energy needed to separate the charges at the charging points is always bigger than the electric energy you can get, and with which you then can drive the wheel again.
Only in perfect conditions (zero friction, not corona loss), a self runner would be possible. But then you also wouldn't need all this stuff, for when you have a wheel without friction, it will turn forever...
You do need an energy source!

Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #160 on: December 16, 2012, 01:39:43 PM »
You may be right, I didn't think about that, but it makes sense.

Now that you said it, it might explain why the first small Testatika didn't have segments on the disc, but only "wires" instead of segments: therefore the mechanical energy needed to separate the charges could be equal to the energy required to drive the disc, as the size stayed the same, in comparison to my setup.

I don't understand their setup fully, as they seem to have combined creator+drive segments in one, therefore I thought of an approach where one could clearly see the difference.

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #160 on: December 16, 2012, 01:39:43 PM »
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Offline Shanti

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #161 on: December 16, 2012, 01:56:43 PM »
It's the same if the wires have the same dimensions or not. Just like that, a selfrunner is impossible. You need an energy source!


I personally  also do not think at all, that the discs were selfrunners per se. IMHO they are just using two separate circuits to get energy. One circuit is feeding the load the other circuit is used to again drive the wheels. And as the circuits are independent, there's also no direct problem, if you e.g. short the load.
IMHO the driving circuit is made much more complex, for IMHO the driving circuit also charges the wheels up, and also regulates the speed of the wheels.
But one could also guess, that the charging up circuit is an additional independent third circuit...anything is possible...

Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #162 on: December 26, 2012, 01:58:53 PM »
After my recently failed experiments I also came to the conclusion, that the electrostatics generated by a device like Toepler or Wimshurst is simply too weak to drive discs like the ones from the Testatika. The disc is still driven by high voltage and the laws of attraction/repulsion, but not by the high voltage produced in a Wimshurst-like way: instead I tend to agree with hcrs that the power to drive the disc is high voltage produced by a common transformers - which means, they took part of their overunity to produce high voltage.

The Hcrs-guys distinguish 2 kinds of voltage: the one within the wire (like water in a pipe under pressure) and the one outside the wire (no pressure, gas-like). The one within the wire (high voltage produced by transformer using a common source) is much stronger compared to the one outside the wire (produced by Wimshurst). This would also apply to the observation from Marinov who claimed that the "drive" of the Testatikas was stronger than the usual electrostatic disc-runners. Also the the short video clip from the Methernita still remains correct, as they only claim that the discs work by the laws of electrostatic attraction or repulsion. And it would apply to the statement, that Baumann always said "this is not a Wimshurst".


Maybe this is relevant too, as it could apply to the copper-perspex-alu plates between the horseshoe magnets: "It is known that if you heat perspex or lucite until soft to the touch, it becomes tacky and you then subject the heated mass to a high voltage field via means of metal plates on each side of the perspex mass and leave it there until the perspex is cool. Removing the applied high voltage charge, an electrostatic high voltage charge may still be continuously taken from those metal plates. Something like this also happens with the electrostatic microphones in modern tape recorders."

Could this be the secret of the Testatika?

These so called "electrets" could at least explain the high voltage from the Linden Experiment (700V) as well as the loud crack-noise produced in the "Testatika principle Experiment" - and the fact, that no one else could replicate these results because they were using simple plexiglass isolators.

And even if this would not be the source of energy somewhere it was mentioned (maybe the Potter article?) if they maybe tapped into the power of a magnet, e.g. like Floyd Sweet which worked on the principle that they oscillated a magnet and thereby got induction effect without any moving parts - multiple kilowatts!
Unfortunately also information about him seems to be sparse...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 09:47:30 PM by gauschor »

Offline mikewatson

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #163 on: December 28, 2012, 08:44:13 PM »
Regarding the Sweet VTA, I met Floyd Sweet at his home in Desert Hot Springs California in the early nineties. He showed me roughly his method for conditioning magnets etc and told me how he had a one of his systems in a car which was being tested by some big car maker. After his death his widow Violet Sweet could find no trace of any system installed in any car or any details of his special  magnet conditioning and concluded that the whole thing was a fabrication/scam and his demos was done with hidden AC sources etc. One of his tricks was to place a ceramic magnet weakly magnetised on the face of a television tube which produced various pretty patterns etc etc. but apart from that meant nothing... I would not waste time on that one..




Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #164 on: December 29, 2012, 01:44:29 AM »
After his death his widow could find no trace of any system installed in any car or any details of his special  magnet conditioning and concluded that the whole thing was a fabrication/scam and his demos was done with hidden AC sources etc. One of his tricks was to place a ceramic magnet weakly magnetised on the face of a television tube which produced various pretty patterns etc etc. but apart from that...

This conclusion seems a bit too fast, after all I've read, because of one specific thing: what I've read about the device - the pattern how it behaves - applies to another invention more than 70 years ago: this was the "Magnetstromapparat" by Hans Coler. I've always wondered how this got its kilowatts output power (and dismissed it eventually thinking it was just a superawesome receiver from a radio station), but if Coler has released the power by magnet oscillation then it would suddenly make sense. Also both devices had to be finetuned before getting started and this was the difficult part. Both only required a small input load and afterwards delivered way overunity and usable power.

I would not waste time on that one..
It would definitely be a timewaster and I've not got the appropriate equipment unfortunately. Both Coler and Floyd accidentally stumbled upon this effect it seems. Guess we'd need some luck here too. The oscillated magnets are not the first stop, but reading that Floyds magnets were pulsed with high voltage there is a chance the Testatika also uses this effect.

 

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