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Author Topic: Source of energy, Testatika  (Read 207702 times)

Offline andrea76

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #90 on: August 22, 2012, 10:23:33 PM »
In the  Thorny Way of Truth at pag 32 :" ..the small machine starting only when pointing in N/S direction,the bigger machine in any direction .May be the "mechanism" of conversion of the toroidal type?? ring of iron wire wrapped with copper coil?? inside the base??


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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #90 on: August 22, 2012, 10:23:33 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #91 on: August 23, 2012, 04:36:12 AM »
You are actually reading Marinov. That is good. Remarkable really.

Testatika is not an electrostatic machine. That is Baumann's big Red Herring.The Testatika is full of edges and sharp points and metal close to other metal.
Every sharp point, every edge of a static machine limits its ability to collect and gather charge, except those edges and points of the pickups and neutralizers. The reason a Bonetti machine works so much better than a Wimshurst is because the segments of a Wimshurst machine have sharp edges, lots of them, and thus limit the voltage that a segment's charge can attain before blowing it off as corona. Bonetti machines have no segments, and the best Wimshurst machines have the segments covered with a coat of heavy varnish except where the brushes make contact.
The advantage of segments and contact brushes like Wimshurst has is that the machine is "self starting". It does not need any charge to start because of the direct contact. Bonettis do not have contact pickups or segments so they need a little initial charge to start. This can be from friction rubbing, or even .... from a little ionizing radiation from a radioactive rock. But the Bonetti machine will make much higher voltage and higher current than the equivalent Wimshurst machine of the same size and same operating RPM.

Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #92 on: August 23, 2012, 08:27:22 PM »
@andrea: thanks for the book upload, I've never seen that book before. Gonna take a read...

@TinselKoala: I tried to build a Bonetti some years ago (it doesn't exist anymore), but couldn't get it charged most of the time. The reason for that was the cool environment. Obviously not something influence devices like. But when I got it to run once I also recall "hearing" a "mighty" an continuous discharge flow. Much more awesome than the one from Wimshurst. I definitely need to build one again. The fact that it works frictionless will also be positive in many aspects.


Edit: is there a clear construction plan for the Bonetti device somewhere? I am not 100% sure of the setup, and wires... just by the looks of some youtube videos. Can't find anything else about it  :-\

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #92 on: August 23, 2012, 08:27:22 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #93 on: August 24, 2012, 12:18:47 AM »
@gauschor: I made my first Bonetti machine following the outlined plans in  the book "Home Made Lightning" by R. A. Ford. I've made two more since then incorporating some improvements of my own. They work great ! The basic layout and principle of operation is the same as the Wimshurst, but with corona combs instead of contact brushes and of course no sectors on the disks.
They can be a bit hard to start if you don't know the trick, and of course any static machine works poorly in the damp. Cold is fine... the best is really cold really dry, but who wants to play with static in those conditions... heh....
I'll be glad to give advice for your new machine! I know some things even RA Ford didn't.
I used to use an ordinary blow drier on low heat to dry off the machine and the motors and such for demonstrations. Be Prepared! I was able to demonstrate the Dirod and some motors in the middle of a San Francisco rainstorm once, by gently drying the apparatus just before the demo.

Here is one of my Bonettis with the spark globes removed,  powering an electrostatic Tesla turbine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir9RIsXzmzY

And here's an overview of the parts, and a few sparks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYGFqkXjwZc

Offline andrea76

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2012, 10:50:59 AM »

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2012, 10:50:59 AM »
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Dave45

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2012, 01:51:27 PM »
The testatika has a high voltage coil in the center of the rotating wheel

Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2012, 07:14:01 PM »
Definitely such a coil is used. I've not searched yet for the specific phrase "high voltage coil" / ignition coil / spark coil, as I always had the usual transformer logic in my head. After using a quick search I can see on the image below that it looks slightly different, but still applies to usual way a transformer works.
I am just amazed, that I stepped on a picture which looks exactly like the 2 cylinders of the Testatika...

Now the question still is, how can one transform the high voltage back? ... I could only get "power" from the electrostatic potential, by discharging them against the other pole. But the spark impulses are way too low to generate enough amperage when sending it through a transformer.
Also the charge only seems to be on the surface instead of "within the wire". Don't know, but maybe the Methernita found a way to "integrate" the surface charge directly into the wire via some magical magnet construction (as seen on the Testatika) and thereby they received a power, which was almost like one from a battery.

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2012, 07:14:01 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #97 on: August 31, 2012, 08:40:52 PM »
If there are voltages over 1 kV anywhere in a Testatika I would be completely amazed. I doubt seriously if the spacings and materials used could stand off more than a couple of hundred volts, really. Certainly it is impossible for a machine with metal parts in close juxtaposition like the Testatikas to have truly high voltages on or near the disks, like 20 kV of an automotive ignition coil or the hundreds of kV of a Wimshurst or Bonetti machine.

Not only that, but I have it on good authority that the smallest Testatika can be held in the hands while working to power a load. I've talked to someone who visited Methernitha many years ago when Baumann was still doing demonstrations and he saw this done with the smallest machine. No extreme high voltages, like in a static machine, are possible if this is true.

Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2012, 10:24:47 PM »
I've read the PDF now (I will read parts of it again...), which was quite insightful.

What was new for me, was the fact, the small machine had no crank at all to turn the wheel by hand. All Wimshurst devices have such a crank/coupling to the main rotor. Needless to say that this causes a lot of friction. Too much. It kills any attempt to get the rotor self-run. In fact I was also annoyed in my own experiments by this matter and wished the disc could run without the crank. And now I've read in this PDF, that the small device does indeed run without any coupling. It rotates freely. Marinov just needed to push the rotor 1-3 times with his finger and then it would continue by itself.
I think it makes sense to agree with his observation that the disc of the small machine rotates by electrostatic power only (generated by itself). Therefore one needs good bearings, as the Coulomb forces are quite weak.

I am still unsure if and how to produce charges without any direct contact by combs and with a single disc only. This is the most challenging task.

Besides it makes me unsure that even in this PDF Marinov wrote that Baumann mentioned a crystal in the small machine. I really do hope it is not something to get the perpetuum mobile run and that it's only for limiting the revolutions of the rotor (because the rotor would rotate faster and faster from his claims). What kind of crystal anyways? A pyrit or a diode? Like used in Detektor radios?

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2012, 10:24:47 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2012, 11:36:26 PM »
One of the improvements that I made in my Bonetti machines is always to use motors that do not have any cogging or much frictional resistance when coasting or unpowered. This has allowed me to see that these machines, like the Bonetti, can indeed be run "backwards" like an electrostatic motor. That is, if the disks are properly free to rotate and the pickups and neutral structures are properly positioned, the machine will indeed turn when it is supplied with HV (hundreds of kV, real high voltage not the stuff you get from "high voltage coils") it will turn and motor along just fine.... but in the opposite direction from when it is acting as a generator. I have run one Bonetti from the output of another of similar design and disk size.

The "Dirod" is essentially a single-disk Wimshurst warped into a drum instead of a disk, with fewer sharp edges and carbon fiber brushes for self starting and power take-off. It too will run as a motor if it's supplied with enough voltage at its output terminals.

ETA: It is a contact machine though, using carbon fiber filaments for the brushes, but I think it could be made to work like a noncontact Bonetti with a little redesign.

But I forget sometimes. Most people consider 20 or 30 kV to be "high voltage", and it is, of course, and it's about as high as you can get with conventional coils in a small package, like an auto ignition coil or a flyback transformer. Of course you can get much higher with big Tesla coils.
However, when you are talking electrostatics, 30 kV is peanuts, barely able to raise a hair or make a little spark. Things don't really really get interesting until 100 kV or so, and 300 kV is nice for a desktop Wimshurst or Bonetti, and my best Bonetti with 300 mm diameter disks will do 600 kV on a dry day, and yes that is a measured value. You don't do 600 kV in any ordinary kind of coil, not even one that could fit into the "elephant".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpemKuf6X_c

Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #100 on: September 13, 2012, 10:31:17 PM »
I am currently confused by the picture I posted myself about the ignition coil and need some hint in understanding. If you look on the right coil there is a text written "gemeinsamer Wicklungsanschluss". This means to me, that the thin and the thick wire are soldered together.  ???
Since when is an arrangement like that working? I've never seen a transformer like that. Do I interprete something wrong, or are the coils really soldered together at this point?

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #100 on: September 13, 2012, 10:31:17 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2012, 08:19:02 AM »
@gauschor: Yes, that is correct. Electrically, the primary and secondary are connected together at the "bottom" of their windings and this point is connected to the system ground. This is similar to the grounding of a sparkgap tesla coil, where the primary and secondary  may also be connected and grounded here, at the electrical "bottoms" of both coils.

Makes sense if you think about the car's wiring: the wires only are the positive for all circuits, the negative is the metal chassis and engine block. So the primary of the auto coil has its positive (Klemme 15) being interrupted by the points/condenser, and its negative (Klemme 1) going to chassis ground. The secondary has its high end going by a single wire to the spark plug, and the ground electrode of the spark plug goes to the engine block which is electrically connected back to the common ground. And the ignition coil makes this connection internally as well.

Offline gauschor

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #102 on: September 15, 2012, 08:56:56 AM »
Damn...

@TK: thanks for confirming that. I need to work on my setup, because I only connected the coil with the many windings to the ground.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #103 on: September 15, 2012, 09:55:29 AM »
Auto ignition coils can work to 20-30 kV or so but at relatively low frequencies due to the core saturation.

I don't know if it will help at all, but here's a tiny Jacob's Ladder that's using an ignition coil for its HV output.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNL8QTS0sM0

The same basic circuit, with a different output stage, can also be used to drive a CRT flyback transformer using a custom 10-turn primary instead of the flyback's own primary.

The Ignition coil version does use the low-point grounding together, but the flyback version does not. So... I don't know which way will work best for you.

Offline mikewatson

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Re: Source of energy, Testatika
« Reply #104 on: October 13, 2012, 05:10:19 PM »
I knew Prof. Stefan Marinov quite well. Unfortunately he committed suicide in the mid nineties. Marinov told me the
Methernita group said they would give him the secret of the Testatika if he joined the group and swore to keep the secret.
He also told me that they said it is not an overunity machine as this was impossible and but that it draws its energy from space. The small machine had to be aligned N-S to start but there was no similar constraint on the big machine.
Marinov also said  that Paul Baumann was a watch maker and early on was briefly in prison for some reason and employed in the workshop. At night when the lights were out, he always had a source of light to read by. We speculated on this and came to the conclusion the light was probably produced by luminous paint activated by radium bromide which was common practice for luminous clock and watch dials at that time and readily available for watch and clock dial painting.
I asked Marinov if the he thought the  testatika was powered by this radium bromide and he said he hoped not. 
here is an example of a possibly similar effect of radium on radio antenna
see:-
Intensifying Radio Signals with Radium; in [size=78%]Electrical Experimenter, 04:06 October 1916 Electrical Experimenter[/size]
Here is one place to get a copy but you have to buy it:-  [size=78%]http://www.g-books.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&prod[/size]


Mike Watson



 

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