Author Topic: Is this the first selfrunning overunity motor w/o batteries ? Mike?s motor (Read 575758 times)

hotspringstrading · « **Reply #825 on:** March 24, 2007, 05:41:05 PM »

Quote

All components are the same except for the added parts a hall IC and a ss relay and also third winding.

Leads me to beleive now ther is no extra diode in the circuit.

Since he useed the gen coil to start up the cap charge, then the switching charged the capacitor faster. and before running the thing says he switched the cap charge back to the battery at the proper time, thus reducing the current use untill he got the effect he found in wich the timing is then used strictly on the cap. This tells me he switched the cap out of the main curcit until the proper time.

in other words was charging the cap and switching it into the curcit at the right time to use cap charge to run circuit, instead of battery.
This means the gen coil is directly conected to the rectifyer. and the switch to curcit is such that the curcit is not on at all times with the switch engaged. In other words has it switched to normal onn switching it off saving current flow, posibly causeing and using the oscilations to further enhance charging Remeber what happens in one coil will transformer to the other.

Note I am Roystermule on the other form.
I have dumped all ideas diagrams etc on this mess and now starting over.

I will note that droping the bias by bring the curcit to positive creates an so far unstable oscilation when the triger curent transistor is brought to the right currrent leval. Such could be involved in this. So far not sure.

I have also noticed that the voltage levals can cause the circit to oscilate. It is voltage dependent and coil related.
Well so far this stuf is fun so I will continue.

hotspringstrading · « **Reply #826 on:** March 24, 2007, 05:45:07 PM »

An add on I forgot. Were in the curcit can the generated current on the main coil, triger coil keep the sytem working?

hotspringstrading · « **Reply #827 on:** March 24, 2007, 07:11:51 PM »

Ok looking over the original circuit thetriger transistor is used to create the higher charging effect by removing the diode and reversing the triger coil. Creates a switch that will trun off and on shorting the main coil during generator mode. Note one must reverse the trigger coil to get it to switch like this. Adjust the resistor to your coil will also have to be done. One could run the device with a secondary drive with a scope across the main to get this switching to be most effective with out any power conecter to curcit.
Note this makes atthe emmeter of the transistor the turn on of due to when it flows it shorts the main coil. An interesting tranformer effect to cause with the generated current to sped up the charge of the curcit.

Note the diode should be removed from the curcit. Hence were the diode comes from.

McGiver30 · « **Reply #828 on:** March 24, 2007, 10:54:30 PM »

I think I understand but how about a schematic to be sure?

hotspringstrading · « **Reply #829 on:** March 25, 2007, 05:36:43 AM »

McGiver30
So far I am back to the original Bendini circuit without rectifyer conected, and no power trying to figure out wer the gen coil can go in a common emiter pnp curcit driven by the motor spining and the magnetic induction that can operate the common pnp amp. Were would the best place be to stick in the coil, or to create a switching to give the charge rate Mike shows in the vidio.

So far I am leaning that he put the coil on the pnp emiter parallel with the triger coil. Such would asist in the drive pulse.

It can also be switched with the resistor in the pnp collecter to npn. Still looking at how the set up will charge the cap the fastest.

Note something Mike asked as well as following other staments by him such as was how fast does the cap charge free handing it to six volts.

Well it make reason when I look at the vidio and see one side of the switch conected to battery.
I am now realy woundering about them little dots about the line in one scope shot. I am hoping folks do figure this thing out and there is not a hp transmiter around.
Just a note it is the three coils that can cause enough current to charge the cap. If these can not do it were is that charge coming from?
Ahh I am going twords mistake as in meter charging ( note charge rate does not happen until spin) But have seen some strange damage to digital meter myself; or one of them coils is picking up current from somewere.

hotspringstrading · « **Reply #830 on:** March 26, 2007, 11:53:38 PM »

Well i posted on the other form that the coil and switch are simple placed batween the rectifyer and the positive of Capacitor in the original vidio.

If this thig ran itself it is due to curcit in the SS relay, and folks we do not have numbers or scematics for that.

We do not know if it was transformer coupled or optical coupled much less which set up was the switching through.

I am now at 90 percent that it is a fake, thought the black box (switch) is still keeping me woundering.

Simply put folks that cap chage rate is unusual to say the least. Only validity to mikes vidio is that he thought simple that the coil switched of for the drive cycle was running this mess. It simply could not have done it. The only other part in wich he changed was the switch, and other componets after they failed. Hmm I am woundering it the original switch could have made it run. Ahh the flustration of wanting to belive.

hotspringstrading · « **Reply #831 on:** March 27, 2007, 08:18:17 PM »

Been looking into Solid state relays, Hmm some interesting things with the snuber, start up protection stuff.

Such can modify the wave form to better charge the cap.

The overvoltage protection on these items could have an interestig effect on the flyback espeacaly with the gen coil conected,

Funny thing is such curcits for use on this device will be frequency selective.

dingbat · « **Reply #832 on:** March 30, 2007, 12:48:01 PM »

(http://superpolewave.jpg)

A guy posting on gn0sis.com is now able to produce this waveform. It looks pretty interesting when compared to Mikes "D2" waveform.

z_p_e · « **Reply #833 on:** March 30, 2007, 06:13:47 PM »

It appears that the S1 timing is about 180? out though.

Darren

dingbat · « **Reply #834 on:** March 30, 2007, 07:38:25 PM »

If you un-invert Mike's back to the original polarity the shape of the waveforms are very similar (keep in mind that mike was switching once every 3 cycles, this one is once per cycle). The guy's circuit is different than Mikes, but judging by the shape of his waveform he is possibly getting closer to what Mike had.

Also, don't know where the scope was connected.

His "spike" is much higher (lower?) amplitude than Mikes. His capacitor is charging to 40v or something like that. (not self running)

z_p_e · « **Reply #835 on:** March 31, 2007, 12:31:32 AM »

Well, it can be argued either way actually as to which is a closer match.

In order to keep our sanity and do an accurate analysis, waveforms MUST be non-inverted, and the scope shots presented by Mike are inverted....that's a fact.

Best to wait to see if the circuit and scope placement data become available. Then one can do a better analysis of the scope shot.

Darren

NerzhDishual · « **Reply #836 on:** April 01, 2007, 01:54:19 AM »

Hi clever-witted Over-Unity dot com experimenters!

I have (almost) fisnished to build my motor. Pictures to come soon.

I'm carefully testing the stuff before connecting all the wires.
I have just wired the L3 coil, the diodes bridge and the cap.
When I hand rotate the rotor I do not succeed to charge the cap as fast as shown in the Mike Vid (winmotor_full). Of course, I can charge it but too slowly.

I guess that my magnets are not strong enough. I'm using 6 ferrite magnets (about 7 cm * 2.5 cm * 1.5 cm). The gap between the rotor and the coils are about the same as Mike's. The wires diameters are also the same and the coils resistances are higher (more turns).

So I'm a little bit disappointed.
I guess I will order stronger magnets (and also leather gloves to keep my fingers safe)...

)

BTW:
I'm using the same Crouzet relay.
According to my test, this relay needs about 3-4 volts to be "operative".
So, when the cap is discharged (Vcap < 3-4 volts) the cap is "free to be charged"
until it reachs about 3-4 volts.

So, IMO, If you use a Reed relay, the cap would not been able to be charged because
this relay is "immediately operative" and will (momentarily but "firmly" - during each rotor rotation) discharge it to feed the circuit. Do you see what I mean?

Any comment?

Best

z_p_e · « **Reply #837 on:** April 01, 2007, 08:57:17 AM »

NerzhDishual,

You are already using magnets quite a bit larger than what Mike used. If your magnets are already grade 8, going to larger magnets is not going to get you any further ahead.

You are not charging the capacitor as fast as Mike did. Well, welcome to the replicators' club. If it was that easy, it would have been done already.

There is something "else" that is creating this rapid charge effect, and for now, it still remains a mystery as to what that is.

Darren

hotspringstrading · « **Reply #838 on:** April 02, 2007, 04:53:02 AM »

After carfull consideration and seeing that the ringing of the curcit causing a multiple flyback ring during one cycle, the advent that the snuber curcit in the new switch is not the same as the original, resistor capacitor.

It is posible that make did make this work.

He had the switcth conected to the power supply in order to cut out the second switching of the curcit. When the old switch was in the open state, a capacitor in the switch stors a charge in its own capacitor that will help in the drive of the coil, Note the flyback is what charges it, as well as why the switch does not close.

He got the thing to a constent ring on the turn off, using the gen coil and rectifyer to charge the cap, while the fly back charged the capacitor in the relay. When curcit fired the second third fourth fith, the relay capacitor supllys the voltage to turn on the main coil. Of course this is a ramp due to it will eventualy not have enough energy to fire the coil.

Now to do it with out the original switch. I see hope. A capacitor across the switch so when disconected from the positive the cap will charge, the cap is isolated from flyback so the gen coil charges.

Ahh hope exists. More experments coming.

hotspringstrading · « **Reply #839 on:** April 02, 2007, 05:18:00 AM »

z_p_e
Why do you think Mike original shots are inverted? Hmm main firing line drops below zero to the negative current raiseing twords positive ( low current showing as a negate to positive voltage) and when stabalized magnetic fields get the magnetic induction causing a droping effect (negative curve).
Current flow is from negative to positive so fly back will be from positive to negative.
The scope goes high to show time in the off as the current starts to flow from a positive to negative direction. As current is high,at start of flyback voltage is at peak positive decresing to zero.

Mikes shots are correct. The scope shots you are comparing was taken were Mike said he made his. Scope shot is of a super pole motor using variation (mainly bypassed diode PNP). It is the same as Mikes second switch hall conected showing same set up.

Note it is a 70 % probability and with experments higher that the second switch does not work as the original did. The snuber curcit in to original sett up may have been supling a voltage the new one will not.

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