Hi,


Look at the attached image. This is essentially two "wheels" that is fixed in an angle of +/- 10°. with two chains (It can be bicycle chains) that is looped around four pulleys each.
When we turn the wheels, B gets narrower and D gets wider. The narrowest part is at position C. The widest part is at position A.
Position A has more ferromagnetic mass than C. So A is more attracted to the magnet than C.
As A turns clockwise towards position C the ferromagnetic mass decrease.
So the operation is simple. A chain have a constant length. Chain A-C is just as long as chain B-D. As one side widens, the other side gets narrower to keep the chain in tension all the time.
This will reduce ferromagnetic mass, close to the magnet, as the chain gets narrower. This will result in a greater magnetic attraction from one side of the wheel.
What do you think? What did I miss out?


Vidar

Not sure I understand, but wherever the mass of attraction changes from less
to more will be the balance point, It will just come to rest.
IMO artv
 

Not sure I understand, but wherever the mass of attraction changes from less
to more will be the balance point, It will just come to rest.
IMO artv

Most probably. I first visualized this wheel as a gravitywheel where the widest part was on one side, but mass is displaced upwards all the time while the wheel turns, and that will balance the whole system. So I thought maybe magnetism would be different. Probably not. We'll see. The experiment is very easy to do. It's worth a shot🙂


Vidar

@MagnaProp


Magnetic fields weakens to 1/4 for each 2x distance, just like gravity does.


B is much closer than A, so the most attractive force is at position B, maybe slightly further due to A vs. C.
A vs C can not overcome B from a stand still, but if the initial position is 45° further, A ad B has the same distance, but A is more attracted, so it will generate torque that accelerate the wheel. Inertia will move A past the magnet a bit, so D can come close enough to repeat the cycle. Say if the number of chains isn't two, but 20 evenly spread.


Very light wheel might not work, or it will be noisy due to the cogging. Using a flywheel will smoothen the rotation due to increased inertia.


The principle has more magnetic attraction from one side, seen only from the shape. So from that perpective, this will definitely run.
However, there must be a force that balance out the benefits of greater ferromagnetic mass on one side. I cannot clearly see where this counter forces comes from.


Vidar

I have thougt of different scenarios regarding orientation of the magnet. The attatched three images explains how the non vertical parts of the chain (illustrated in the video in previous post) affect the chain magnetically. A north-south horizintally force the red marks to separate. This will be one counterforce that will force the wheel going backwards. This orientation also have the weakest attraction to the whole chain.
A north-south vertically will force the red marks together. This orientation also have the strongest attraction to the whole chain.
The last scenario is a 45° angled magnet. Attractive force on the whole chain is somewhere between weak and strong. It should probably not affect the red markers except attraction towards the magnet.


I ordered a spool of 2.5mm iron chain on Ebay, so this will be tested with a simple loop consisting of two sticks with plastic pulleys/wheels that can seesaw, expanding or contracting the chain close to a magnet. Delivery is not expected untill mid March-April...that is how free shipping works, unfortunately.


Vidar

If you combine nonmagnetic springs and magnets, you can achieve linear characteristics.


Vidar

To me the most difficult thing to beat when using permanent magnets is the
"closer stronger, further weaker" characteristic of  magnetic fields.

I have often used a variable lever that allows a week attraction to lift a given weight
a little bit because the leverage is greater and then when the attraction is
greater that weight is lifted a greater distance because of less leverage.

If that force was linear I would have demonstrated an overunity PM device 5 years ago.

Norman

Printing parts for the first experiment using a seesaw-like structure that holds the pulleys with the chain around.The goal is to see how the seesaw redponds when the chain around it is exposed to a magnetic field. Can I widen or close the gap, increasing or decreasing the amount of magnetic chain without input, or what does it take to do it?Watch the video to see how I want to do the experiment.
https://youtu.be/LlCs8w4y33s


Vidar.

Hi Vidar, The sea-saw will just come to rest where the most amount of magnetism interacts with the chain.
The rotating bed the saw is on will be attracted to the magnet ,then just stop.
Just my opinion

artv

This opinion is confirmed by everything we know about electromagnetism. There is no cause for the movement of magnetic parts in a cycle using permanent magnets, because the start and end magnetic potential is the same.
Without an idea of the origin of the hidden energy that could allow such a cycle and how to implement it, it is doomed to failure, I am saddened to see enthusiastic and willing people throwing themselves into a dead end.