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Author Topic: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.  (Read 7495 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2019, 11:14:26 AM »
Hi Vidar, The sea-saw will just come to rest where the most amount of magnetism interacts with the chain.
The rotating bed the saw is on will be attracted to the magnet ,then just stop.
Just my opinion

artv
That is what I think too. Conservative forces cannot do work, so somewhere along the cycle this rotor will stop.
First, I build a seesaw with one loop of magnetic chain. I make a small gap first, then approach the magnet and see what happens. Then make a big gap and approach the magnet, and see what happens.
I assume that the small gap will widen when I approach a magnet.


Vidar



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Offline Low-Q

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2019, 11:59:55 AM »
Attached I have illustrated 3 figures. Figure 1 illustrates that I pull the tight chain towards left.
It seems unreasonable that the seesaw will do anything. Maybe something different with a magnetic field due to the magnetic influence on the horizontal part of the chain.
Figure 2 is how a chain shapes when I approach it to a magnet. It gets pointy close to the magnet.
Figure 3 is not what is happening when I approach a magnet.


I will test the seesaw when I come home from work.


Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2019, 08:38:30 PM »
I finally got to test the seesaw. The rods used through the pulleys are stainless steel, and not ferromagnetic at all.
What I can say, is that the chain got more tension when the seesaw is in parallell. An engineering problem that can be solved.
Maybe a common fulcrum as this isn't the way to do it. I think I need two separate fulcrums in the center of each seesaw. That will make an instable seesaw that will collapse, but I'll try to find a way to fix that problem with some guides/tracks.

That said, I did some tests you can watch in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QACX7U-bDg


What I found is that nothing happens to the seesaw wether the narrow or wide part face the magnet, or if I pull the chain with my finger. What I expected was that the narrow end opens up in order to expose more magnetic chain when it's facing a magnet, but absolutely nothing happens. Not even a tiny bit.
The only thing that happens is that there is more attraction when the seesaws wide end (more chain) is facing the magnet. It seems to me that no effort is necessary to change magnetic attraction from weak to strong, or from strong to weak, but there is some friction that most probably is bugging the experiment. I would however expect a little reaction to the narrow gap when the magnet approaches - as mentioned before, the magnet will seek the most magnetic attraction, meaning that the seesaw SHOULD open the side that is facing the magnet - at least a tiny bit. But no. Nothing happens.


I am printing some new pulleys with a little wider holes so they turn more easily. Because a couple of them does not turn around, but the chain just slides over them. I also need to find a better arrangement to the seesaw so the chain can sustain its tension regardless of the seesaws positions. Not much tension, but enough for the chain to not jump over the edges of the pulleys.


Think a little about this experiment while I'm printing new parts. Next experiment will not be untill tomorrow or friday - hopefully with less friction, and proper tension to the seesaw.


Vidar

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2019, 08:38:30 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2019, 10:38:27 PM »
This is the new seesaw. It should be correct design.


Vidar

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2019, 08:35:20 AM »
Hi there,


Do you have any idea where I can buy small conveyor belts or track links? I'm looking for plastic/non magnetic belts similar to what you'll find in LEGO machines, but something stronger.
I need to do something with the chain I am supposed to use. The chain I got, is getting stiff near a magnetic field. Each link stick together and creates friction. Even ballbearings is hard to turn near a magnetic field.


What I plan to do instead, is using a plastic belt, and glue on tiny magnets - lots of them. In this way I can make a rotor with a permanentmagnetic belt that is actually attracting or repelling the stator magnet. So I can use two stator magnets that attract on one side and repel on the other side. Using the "mass gradient" in the rotor (due to the alignment of the wheels, this might provide some interesting results - most impertantly something to learn from.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2019, 08:35:20 AM »
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Offline citfta

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Offline Low-Q

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2019, 11:31:03 AM »
Would something like this work?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/170XL050-Timing-Belt-Cog-Belt-85-Teeth-Flat-Shipping-for-Unlimited-Quantity/261084747649?hash=item3cc9dd1781:g:jWoAAOxy~dNQ~eYI

You can buy or 3d print the pulleys.
Thanks! belts like this has crossed my mind too. They are not as flexible (and more resistance), but a narrower and thinner belt might work.


Vidar

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2019, 11:31:03 AM »
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Offline kajunbee

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2019, 03:50:33 PM »
Go on eBay and search " flat vcr belt". i imagine there are other devices that have small belts. Maybe someone else has a better suggestion.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2019, 10:30:09 PM »
The second seesaw I made was much better. Easier to examine the behaviour. The narrow part will open up near a magnet. The reason is because the magnetic force is pulling on the chain that goes along the sides. when it do so, the seesaw will open up. However, when I open the seesaw near a magnet, the seesaw is pushed together a tiny bit. I did more tests than in the video, but the result is quite clear. The seesaw wants to rest when they are aligned in parallell - more or less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfZHB6y7CGE


That's it.


Next test is to make a telescopic iron "rod" so I can adjust the length between the ends of the seesaw. The mass will not change, but the volume, or area, of the telescopic rod inside the magnetic field will increase or decrease. For this I will try to print two parts with iron filament. Two tubes, one that fits inside the other. I think I know the outcome already, but need to know for sure.


Vidar

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2019, 10:30:09 PM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2019, 11:23:52 PM »
Probably the chain doesn't have enough magnetism in it, needs to be more massive.

Offline kajunbee

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2019, 02:47:31 AM »
As you can already tell attracting the chain most likely won't work. As I see it the same tension squeezing one side together is also squeezing the other side together. Therefore no movement. In your video you use both hands to push the chain. So your chain gets tight on one side. And gets slack in the direction your pushing. Basically your chasing the slack in the chain. I see that you were able to move them a little. I have no explanation other than the magnet pulled on both side chains relieving the tension on one end.  I'm by no means and expert so everything I'm saying is guess work. Just and uneducated guess.

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2019, 02:47:31 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2019, 11:05:38 AM »
Probably the chain doesn't have enough magnetism in it, needs to be more massive.
I think it is enough to confirm the outcome.
That was what confused me before I built it. The idea of operation is described earlier. I did expect that my wheel with two angled discs would find equilibrium. And now I know how it does that, and why it does.


Because, if the seesaw hadn't expanded near a magnet, I could build a magnetmotor that actually worked, but the outcome of the experiment proves that it cannot work.


My goal is reached - learning by practice :)


New ideas must be explored.


Vidar

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2019, 09:36:17 PM »
I've decided to move forward with this design. See the image. I have given it a lot of thoughts. I have concluded that the seesaw will not work, because the magnetism pulls the chain towards it, and squeeze the opposite end together.


I think something similar will happen with the design in the image. A long magnet will attract the green chain more than the orange chain. The X'es is where the chain rounds the pulleys. The left side X'es is pulled towards right, and the right side X'es are pulled towards left.


When the wheel turns clockwise, the chain moves towards right to fill the widest gap between the two wheels. So the chain is sliding away from the magnet at the right side, and apprach the magnet at the left side.
My guess is that the magnetic force on all the X'es combined, cancels out.
What I got left is longer green chain than orange chain.


It's a complicated build, mostly to put the chain in place.


Vidar




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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2019, 02:38:20 PM »
Printed out som pulleys for the project.
I have also finished the rotor, but have no pictures of those right now.
These pulleys is made for that zig-zag chain I have posted an illustration of earlier.


Vidar

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Re: A new magnetmotor idea for you to evaluate.
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2019, 06:08:56 PM »
Picture of one of the finished wheels - actually spokes, but it saves a lot of 3D filament, and time.
It takes almost 6 hours to make ONE "wheel" of this type.
Printing 16 pulleys took more than 7 hours.
You need to be patient with this hobby :D 


Edit: the M5 bolts and washers are made of non-magnetic stainless steel.


Vidar

 

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