Author Topic: A fresh look at the Clem motor (Read 21166 times)

onepower · « **Reply #90 on:** April 18, 2023, 07:16:33 PM »

Citfta

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One of the reasons most people have failed in attempting to build the Clem engine is they just don't understand fluid dynamics. In almost all of the replication attempts I have seen the builder uses a long straight pipe going directly out from the center and then they put an elbow on the end with a nozzle and expect that to work. The original pump that Clem claims was his inspiration for his machine had a long curving narrowing path for the fluid to follow. This has several advantages over the straight pipe with an elbow.

Indeed, most people built what amounts to a simple rotary lawn sprinkler.

Which begs the question, what did they think was going to happen?. This reminds me of Hero's rotary steam engine which was invented around 30 BC or about 2000 years ago. Which begs another question, how is it so many today can seem to do no better than someone 2000 years ago?. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile#See_also

It's on us, who actually want to learn, to pick up our game and do better.

AC

aussiebattler · « **Reply #91 on:** April 18, 2023, 11:53:19 PM »

It is the shear simplicity of the Clem design that keeps the "professionals " away.

onepower · « **Reply #92 on:** April 19, 2023, 03:08:05 AM »

aussiebattler

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It is the shear simplicity of the Clem design that keeps the "professionals " away.

Yes most experts would agree it's unworkable because they have no knowledge of how it could.

From what I have seen maybe a fraction of 1% of experts actually invent/discover something new. The rest simply follow the 1% and repeat what they did which is more like a memory skill or repetition than expertise. Like the supposed hunter following an expert hunting guide but loses there guide and immediately gets lost and starves to death. There not a real hunter there a follow a longer pretending to be a hunter.

So far as experts are concerned I only have one criteria. A real expert can solve the problem at hand and the rest are just want to be experts pretending they know what there doing. If they can't getter done, there no expert.

AC

SolarLab · « **Reply #93 on:** April 19, 2023, 08:40:00 AM »

Quote from: onepower on April 19, 2023, 03:08:05 AM

aussiebattler
Yes most experts would agree it's unworkable because they have no knowledge of how it could.

From what I have seen maybe a fraction of 1% of experts actually invent/discover something new. The rest simply follow the 1% and repeat what they did which is more like a memory skill or repetition than expertise. Like the supposed hunter following an expert hunting guide but loses there guide and immediately gets lost and starves to death. There not a real hunter there a follow a longer pretending to be a hunter.

So far as experts are concerned I only have one criteria. A real expert can solve the problem at hand and the rest are just want to be experts pretending they know what there doing. If they can't getter done, there no expert.

AC

So how would you "ketter done?" Just curious.

Thanks,

ramset · « **Reply #94 on:** April 19, 2023, 04:38:44 PM »

What “some “ feel could play a part in the gain mechanism ( phase change to steam in hot oil)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wkAbV-yXy0M

Slow motion starts approx .52sec- 1 minute into vid ..
Mucho gusto …”instant” 1600 fold expansions …

After all ..350 hp ( as claimed by Clem)
Is no small amount of power ..( although his engine is small for that
big output claim)
Considering his tech was never given a chance to evolve ..( could probably be much smaller)

Yes Tom did share that he had what seemed anomalous outputs ( shocks or ?
During some experiments..
Getting phase change shocks into a driving ( directional) result…
Should be doable..
At least a gain mechanism that could supply huge outputs in a small package
Or does the oil itself “phase” at temperature?( and then recombine ( still usable ?)

I believe Tom had mentioned testing that too ..( to do list)
Tom mentioned Some simple test beds are scheduled to try to dial in the phase change theory .
However
Gotta pay the bills .. so like most here …
Limited time

aussiebattler · « **Reply #95 on:** April 19, 2023, 07:00:33 PM »

Get your pop corn ready for the Clem world series event when the water in boiling oil boys meet the ambient harvesting venturi dudes. It should be quite a contest.
I am particularly interested in where the energy comes from to heat the oil.

onepower · « **Reply #96 on:** April 19, 2023, 08:40:41 PM »

aussiebattler

Quote

Get your pop corn ready for the Clem world series event when the water in boiling oil boys meet the ambient harvesting venturi dudes. It should be quite a contest.
I am particularly interested in where the energy comes from to heat the oil.

The water in oil idea seems far fetched at first but there could be something to it...

1)A hot oil system on cooling down could pull humid air into the system which then condenses as water. It fits the profile because there must be an anomaly not commonly found in most other systems. The effect or process must be different and unknown to a majority of people.

2)The energy required to produce a phase change in water is 2257KJ/KG. However many who don't understand energy tend to think all the heat must be added to the system which is false. A heat pump does not "produce" all the heat energy within the system it "moves" a majority of it. Thus what we may be looking for is an efficient means to recycle or transform the heat energy within the system using the least amount of work.

3)Connect the dots. Viktor Schauberger often used a mixture of air and water however he did claim other materials could work as well. Clem could have stumbled onto a process which uses steam and oil versus air and water. Schauberger also claimed his device could remove heat or produce an excess of it within parts of the system.

AC

ramset · « **Reply #97 on:** April 19, 2023, 09:21:05 PM »

Quote from: aussiebattler on April 19, 2023, 07:00:33 PM

I am particularly interested in where the energy comes from to heat the oil.

That is provided by compression ( I believe Tom did reference a 7 stage pump ( from Clem)

So now I understand your …apprehension with this particular theory…
I always assumed it was self evident..
My apologies

sm0ky2 · « **Reply #98 on:** April 19, 2023, 11:56:09 PM »

Quote from: aussiebattler on April 17, 2023, 07:51:52 AM

Yes Well we have only had 50 yrs to do so.

Have you had any luck in this 50 years?

sm0ky2 · « **Reply #99 on:** April 20, 2023, 12:03:08 AM »

place a mass on a string and tie it to a force scale

Now: create 2 things:

First a venturi suction junction

Second a Schauberger vortex inverse spatial force.

Now using the force scale, allow the mass to be sucked into the force.
Compare the two, and tell me which one is closer to Clem’s results

aussiebattler · « **Reply #100 on:** April 20, 2023, 12:18:10 AM »

Quote from: sm0ky2 on April 19, 2023, 11:56:09 PM

Have you had any luck in this 50 years?

Luck -No
Wisdom - yes

aussiebattler · « **Reply #101 on:** April 20, 2023, 12:23:03 AM »

Quote from: sm0ky2 on April 20, 2023, 12:03:08 AM

place a mass on a string and tie it to a force scale

Now: create 2 things:

First a venturi suction junction

Second a Schauberger vortex inverse spatial force.

Now using the force scale, allow the mass to be sucked into the force.
Compare the two, and tell me which one is closer to Clem’s results

Please send me a drawing showing how to do that with 8 nozzles doing 3000 rpm while in a closed oil system.

Another thing
Once you have exhausted the "energy" within the hot oil (whch is insde the device before exiting thru the nozzles) , how will there be any energy left to turn it?

ab

onepower · « **Reply #102 on:** April 20, 2023, 08:26:48 PM »

aussiebattler

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Once you have exhausted the "energy" within the hot oil (whch is insde the device before exiting thru the nozzles) , how will there be any energy left to turn it?

This is a common problem, similar to a mechanic trying to debate at a physics convention. It's this continual dumbing down to the lowest level of thinking which has led to most of our problems.

First, if were going to talk about energy we need to understand what it is and how it works. Energy is not "exhausted", consumed, depleted, destroyed or used up. Energy is conserved and cannot be created or destroyed only transformed. We cannot lose or gain energy but we can transform it to change a process or alter the action vs reaction.

Whenever I work on a technology I use a primer to set the narrative.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/atoms-greatest-miracle/
We need to expand our thinking not dumb it down.

This is another good read.
T.H.Moray, THE SEA OF ENERGY IN WHICH THE EARTH FLOATS

AC

ramset · « **Reply #103 on:** April 20, 2023, 08:38:17 PM »

Compression makes heat
Once heat is at design parameters for an
“Event”
The Event takes the wheel and provides the power
To “rinse and repeat”

A diesel works this way ..
The phase change method should also work similar ..
One minute mark in this vid https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wkAbV-yXy0M

A threshold is reached where huge “event” manifests to loop
Or run !
Tom is actually going to work with simple test chamber at first ( no need to
Build a running prototype, just show the power in one snapshot)
Keeping it as simple as possible is the goal ( test bed)

Regardless
It’s a cool experiment ( one of many similar experiments with water /super heated steam .. “Sam leach” lithium claim etc etc ..on the table )
Tom has soo many test beds from previous experiments.. he can do all manner of mock ups
At amazing speed!

Myself
I would also luv to understand the method suggested by OnePower and Aussiebattler
Can a simple test bed be produced for “snap shots” ?

Vacuum pressure etc etc ( towards manifesting the claimed gain mechanism?

From the sea of energy or … ( phase change is sort of doing that with molecular manipulations!
Utilizing heat through pressure..

aussiebattler · « **Reply #104 on:** April 20, 2023, 09:59:44 PM »

Pardon my ignorance but I still dont see of any preposals to convert the energy of the "explosion " into useful rotational energy. Sure in a diesel engine that is done in a combustion chamber, But there is no talk of that here. It would be like letting off a fire cracker in a skyrocket - using up the available fuel

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