Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 41 42 43 44 45 [46] 47 48 49 50 51 ... 592   Go Down

Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3538930 times)

MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #675 on: February 01, 2015, 01:53:09 AM »
Quote from: synchro1 on February 01, 2015, 01:17:31 AM
Go ahead and follow through with your threat and find out where you really stand in the pecking order.

Let's not forget the real issue:  You are abusive towards me and you are harassing me and you have been doing it for more than a year.  Stop it and the problem goes away.  Or you may find yourself like Wilby, kicked off of the forum because you deserve to be kicked off of the forum because of your behaviour.  It's time for you to act like a self-respecting grown man.
Logged

ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8073
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #676 on: February 01, 2015, 02:03:35 AM »
Syncro
People doing over unity experiments here have requested MileHigh's help.


Logged

a.king21

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1650
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #677 on: February 01, 2015, 02:21:02 AM »
Logged

Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #678 on: February 01, 2015, 02:31:56 AM »
Quote from: TinselKoala on January 31, 2015, 06:47:18 PM
What I'm concerned about is the possibility of a "scaling factor" in the data file that is dumped to the spreadsheet. So if you could actually look at the data files themselves, when the vertical deflection is set to 1v/div and 5v/div on the same waveform, to verify that the voltage values in the data files are the same, and not scaled by the change in vertical deflection display values, that would be very helpful.

Hi TK. No, the data sample voltage values recorded to CSV file reflect the actual voltage values,
regardless of which volts/div setting you have. Of course the voltage values are more accurate if you have
the volts/div setting set such that the waveform fills as much of the screen vertically as possible without
being cut off.

All the best...


Logged

TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13958
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #679 on: February 01, 2015, 02:38:24 AM »
Quote from: Void on February 01, 2015, 02:31:56 AM
Hi TK. No, the data sample voltage values recorded to CSV file reflect the actual voltage values,
regardless of which volts/div setting you have. Of course the voltage values are more accurate if you have
the volts/div setting set such that the waveform fills as much of the screen vertically as possible without
being cut off.

All the best...

OK, thanks for checking.
Logged

synchro1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4720
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #680 on: February 01, 2015, 03:02:23 AM »
Quote from: ramset on February 01, 2015, 02:03:35 AM
Syncro
People doing over unity experiments here have requested MileHigh's help.

I believe OU is not outside the overall World of possibility! I also believe experimentors like Conradelectro deserve a theory to help explain OU effects that are not part of a chronic syndrome of relentless skepticisem involving nothing but testing error. This is called "Optimisem"! Everyone gets sick to death of those "pessimistic cranks".
Logged

picowatt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2039
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #681 on: February 01, 2015, 03:03:02 AM »
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 01, 2015, 01:43:10 AM
This is indeed confusing. The probes are connected so as to provide essentially a "differential" measurement of the voltage across R1. Why would this not be a valid current measurement?

Hmm.... at these frequencies with a nice sinusoidal waveform, an ordinary DMM connected inline will usually provide quite accurate measurements of average current, won't it?

TK,

Look at Conrad's post.  Vr is the voltage across the 100R resistor.  Vh is the voltage across the coil primary. 

Vr is only needed to calculate current through the 100R and the primary.  I do believe his voltages are RMS as he stated that his FG was outputting 10Vpp.  The voltage measured at the FG side of the 100R is in line with the RMS of that 10Vpp value (but then again, maybe the 10Vpp was open circuit...  hopefully Conrad will let us know if these are RMS measurements).

Anyway, I believe he made an error in his Pin calculations by using the Vdrop across the 100R (Vr) instead of using the voltage across the primary (Vh) in his Pin calculations (which would then make Pin around 7mw). 

What he appears to have calculated is the power dissipated by the 100R, not the Pin to the transformer.

See what you think...

PW
Logged

Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #682 on: February 01, 2015, 03:07:47 AM »
Quote from: MileHigh on January 31, 2015, 08:27:26 AM
Also, your frequency is rather high.  That can induce phase shifts that just might be different from the
"real" phase shift so you have to be careful about that. 
MileHigh

Hi MileHigh. I know what you mean about how ferrite cores can introduce odd phase shifts at higher frequencies.
I have seen this many times.  If I am measuring such a phase shift at a frequency where the ferrite core is altering the phase,
shouldn't that still be an actual phase shift that the function generator is seeing? What I mean is, from experience I understand that
such phase shifts introduced by ferrite cores at certain frequencies often do not seem to represent the true phase shift in the circuit,
as  I have seen some really odd phase shifts that don't seem to make sense, but how can the ferrite core add in phase shift that is
measurable, but it is not really representative of the actual phase shift that the function generator sees?
If I measure whatever phase shift, isn't that phase shift really actually there? How can you know when you can trust a phase shift
measurement and when you can't? Are the odd phase shifts due to power reflecting back to the function generator (or whatever you are
using for a driver) because of an impedance mismatch? In other words is this due to significant reflected power, or what exactly causes it?

Regarding my scope, I have a stand alone DSO. It has a USB connector on it which allows me to save data sample
files and scope screen shots to a USB flash drive. I can then take the USB flash drive over to my computer and load the
files saved on the flash drive.

All the best...

Logged

synchro1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4720
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #683 on: February 01, 2015, 03:22:57 AM »
Quote from: MileHigh on February 01, 2015, 01:53:09 AM
Let's not forget the real issue:  You are abusive towards me and you are harassing me and you have been doing it for more than a year.  Stop it and the problem goes away.  Or you may find yourself like Wilby, kicked off of the forum because you deserve to be kicked off of the forum because of your behaviour.  It's time for you to act like a self-respecting grown man.

@MileHigh,

Everyone knows you're even worse then me. You caused me to retaliate against your abuse. You forced me to fight fire with fire.
Logged

MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #684 on: February 01, 2015, 03:29:49 AM »
Quote from: Void on February 01, 2015, 03:07:47 AM
Hi MileHigh. I know what you mean about how ferrite cores can introduce odd phase shifts at higher frequencies.
I have seen this many times.  If I am measuring such a phase shift at a frequency where the ferrite core is altering the phase,
shouldn't that still be an actual phase shift that the function generator is seeing? What I mean is, from experience I understand that
such phase shifts introduced by ferrite cores at certain frequencies often do not seem to represent the true phase shift in the circuit,
as  I have seen some really odd phase shifts that don't seem to make sense, but how can the ferrite core add in phase shift that is
measurable, but it is not really representative of the actual phase shift that the function generator sees?
If I measure whatever phase shift, isn't that phase shift really actually there? How can you know when you can trust a phase shift
measurement and when you can't? Are the odd phase shifts due to power reflecting back to the function generator (or whatever you are
using for a driver) because of an impedance mismatch? In other words is this due to significant reflected power, or what exactly causes it?

Regarding my scope, I have a stand alone DSO. It has a USB connector on it which allows me to save data sample
files and scope screen shots to a USB flash drive. I can then take the USB flash drive over to my computer and load the
files saved on the flash drive.

All the best...
A good function generator behaves like an ideal voltage source behind a 50 Ohm resistor.  If the impedance of your circuit is much greater than 50 Ohms then only a small portion of the phase shift will appear at the function generator output.
Logged

Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #685 on: February 01, 2015, 03:41:31 AM »
Quote from: MarkE on February 01, 2015, 03:29:49 AM
A good function generator behaves like an ideal voltage source behind a 50 Ohm resistor. 
If the impedance of your circuit is much greater than 50 Ohms then only a small portion of the phase shift will appear at the function generator output.

Hi MarkE. Thanks for the reply. I don't get what you mean however. Are you saying that phase shift measurements are only reliable when
the input impedance of any given circuit is a close match to the generator's output impedance?
All the best...
Logged

MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #686 on: February 01, 2015, 03:59:21 AM »
Quote from: synchro1 on February 01, 2015, 03:22:57 AM
@MileHigh,

Everyone knows you're even worse then me. You caused me to retaliate against your abuse. You forced me to fight fire with fire.

I am not 'forcing' you to do anything.  Everyone is fully aware that you act like a mentally unstable person that states the most outrageous things about all sorts of subjects that are untrue and that includes your statements above about me.  Just stop your problem behaviour with respect to me and the problem goes away.
Logged

TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13958
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #687 on: February 01, 2015, 04:12:59 AM »
Quote from: picowatt on February 01, 2015, 03:03:02 AM
TK,

Look at Conrad's post.  Vr is the voltage across the 100R resistor.  Vh is the voltage across the coil primary. 
Yes, I see that, and the Vt is the subtraction.
But if you had a true differential voltage probe and you connected its two leads across the 100R, would this not be a measurement of the voltage drop across that resistor? And is this use of the true diff. probe equivalent to the way Conrad has his two probes connected across that resistor?
This is where I'm confused.
Quote
Vr is only needed to calculate current through the 100R and the primary.  I do believe his voltages are RMS as he stated that his FG was outputting 10Vpp.  The voltage measured at the FG side of the 100R is in line with the RMS of that 10Vpp value (but then again, maybe the 10Vpp was open circuit...  hopefully Conrad will let us know if these are RMS measurements).

Anyway, I believe he made an error in his Pin calculations by using the Vdrop across the 100R (Vr) instead of using the voltage across the primary (Vh) in his Pin calculations (which would then make Pin around 7mw). 

So are you saying that Pin = Vh x (Vh/impedance of primary) x cos theta, where Vh is the RMS voltage and Vh/impedance equals the RMS current value to be used in the power equation?
Quote
What he appears to have calculated is the power dissipated by the 100R, not the Pin to the transformer.
Well, somehow I think I agree with this too, but see my objections re differential voltage measurement above. Hence my confusion.
Quote
See what you think...

PW
I think I have a headache.
What do you think of making an inline current reading with a DMM?

And how do we get a good measure of the actual phase shift between V and I, considering MarkE's remarks above?
It would  seem, though, that underestimating the phase shift is actually increasing the measured power, since cos 0 degrees =1, and the greater the phase shift the less real power to the load. But even with a phase shift of zero degrees, we still have an input power measurement that is well under the output power measurement.
Logged

TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13958
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #688 on: February 01, 2015, 04:27:27 AM »
Quote from: MarkE on February 01, 2015, 03:29:49 AM
A good function generator behaves like an ideal voltage source behind a 50 Ohm resistor.  If the impedance of your circuit is much greater than 50 Ohms then only a small portion of the phase shift will appear at the function generator output.

MarkE and picowatt, I am using the push-pull driver circuit shown below to drive my primary coil in my testbed. It works well with the resistive load on the secondary.

How would you suggest I measure the power input to the primary coil, considering this circuit?

(The coil is obviously connected where the "M" is in the circuit. I also have inserted a 0.1 uF monolithic capacitor across the + and - supply rails.) 

The Vin input to the op-amp is where the Red lead of my FG connects, with the Black lead connected to the 0 volt midline supply rail of the bipolar power supply. I am testing at -7.5 -0- +7.5 volts input to the rails from the bench supply. The output voltage to the coil tracks the input from the FG exactly, until the FG's voltage nears the value of the supply rails. And of course this system can supply much more current than the FG can on its own.

Presently I am using a 4.7 ohm precision non-inductive CVR in series with the common Emitter lead to the coil, or on the other side of the coil in series with the return to the 0 level rail, in an arrangement like Conrad's except with the push-pull driver in place of his FG.

(With bidirectional LED load, things are different, the circuit is  not so well behaved,  but I'll address that issue later.)

I would appreciate any comments that MarkE and picowatt might make concerning this driver arrangement.
Logged

picowatt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2039
Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #689 on: February 01, 2015, 05:06:44 AM »
TK,

Here are Conrad's Pin calculations:

Quote
Vh = 3.04 V
Vt = 3.28 V
Vr = 3.28 - 3.04 = 0.24 V
I = 0.24 / 100 = 0.0024
Ɵ = 17°
Watt through the primary H1 (input) = 0.0024 * 0.24 * cos(17°) = 0.55 mW

Vt is the FG output.
Vh is the voltage at the top of the primary.
Vr is the voltage across the resistor (which is equal to Vt-Vh).

I (input current) is Vt divided by the 100R of the series CSR.

Phase angle not withstanding, Pin to the primary is simply Pin=(Vh*I).

Conrad used Vr instead of Vh.

However, that is (Vr*I), which is the power dissipated in the series resistor, not the primary.

So, if Pin=Vh*I*cos() =3.04*0.0024*cos(17) =6.98mw

PW
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 41 42 43 44 45 [46] 47 48 49 50 51 ... 592   Go Up
« previous next »